Transcript

A (0:01)

Okay, I got the red smoke. Sun runs north and south. West of the smoke. West of the smoke. Okay, copy.

B (0:10)

West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now.

A (0:14)

Give it to me. I mean, it cleared hot.

B (0:18)

Yeah, it's just a straight up.

A (0:20)

Yeah.

B (0:20)

Conversation. Any particular place that you would feel more comfortable starting? Maybe open with what you were saying about how you to be very clear that perhaps you're not the PAO or spokesman for your organization.

A (0:31)

Correct. Yeah.

B (0:32)

Into the mic, though. Pull that.

A (0:34)

All right. Heck yeah.

B (0:36)

Maybe start with that.

A (0:37)

Yeah, we're good to go.

B (0:38)

We're already going.

A (0:39)

All right, well, just to be clear, you know, I'm not the smoke spokesman for my agency. Anything I say, obviously it doesn't represent, you know, my agency, but, you know, I do have my own opinions on a lot of things, so. Yeah.

B (0:51)

How big is your agency?

A (0:53)

It's small. I work for a small agency. You know, I worked for a couple big agencies. My friend Rob, that you met him and I worked at the same time for a pretty good agency.

B (1:02)

Where you go through the academy?

A (1:03)

Cleveland Heights, east side of Cleveland.

B (1:06)

Okay.

A (1:06)

Which. That actual department, it's pretty big, very busy, quite a bit of crime, but it's. It's run really well. So I went there.

B (1:15)

I pull that mic with you?

A (1:16)

Yeah, that's right.

Summary

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Episode: "A Mushroom Cloud Over Small Town America" | Adam B. | Ep. 441

Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Adam B.
Release Date: April 8, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode is a deeply personal dive into the aftermath of the 2023 East Palestine, Ohio train derailment and controlled chemical release—one of America’s most notorious recent domestic disasters. Host Andy Stumpf sits down with Adam B.—former Army tanker, National Guardsman, SWAT officer, and small-town cop—to chronicle Adam’s life from a troubled childhood to his frontline experience during the disaster, its long-lasting impact on him and his community, and wider implications for government accountability, community support, and personal resilience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adam’s Background: Trauma, Resilience, and Service

Tumultuous Early Life (10:44 – 16:25):
- Grew up in poverty-stricken, dangerous inner-city Cleveland with 12 siblings; subjected to neglect, abuse, and gang activity.
- "The very moment I determined my life is not normal was when I woke up in the middle of the night... we opened the fridge, and there was very limited food... my mother came out and she beat us. I mean, it was so bad. But I remember getting beat, thinking, like, why is this happening? You know?" — Adam B. (11:32)
- After a DEA raid, children were sent to foster care; Adam considers himself “lucky” to land with loving, stable adoptive parents in the country.
Sense of Obligation and Patriotism (16:09 – 17:28):
- "I owed my parents success, you know... this country set me up every way possible. I’ve stayed out of trouble... the system recognized a problem with my family... and did something about it." — Adam B.
Military Service (Army Tanker) (01:49 – 09:14):
- Drove and gunned M1 Abrams tanks; deployed to Korea and Iraq; conveys the intensity of combat arms culture and brotherhood. Details roles inside an Abrams and the vulnerabilities of tanks in combat.
Transition to Law Enforcement (49:01 – 56:38):
- Details becoming a police officer after military service, and working in corrections (“hands down the worst job”).

2. The Reality of Policing in America

Empathy and Perspective (18:39 – 21:23):
- Adam argues police with combat experience often have more empathy for people in trouble, despite being exposed to society’s worst.
- Tragic, recurring calls—especially domestic violence and child trauma—contribute to law enforcement “burnout” and jadedness.
Importance of Continuous Training (57:44 – 63:46):
- "There’s this huge, like, lack of training and it bothers me. It bothers me so much." — Adam B. (58:28)
- SWAT-level training, especially in firearms discipline and tactical situations, is not standard for regular patrol officers. Adam advocates for every patrolman to get, at minimum, a week of SWAT training to build life-saving skills and composure.
Use-of-Force and Defensive Tactics (54:41 – 56:41):
- Adam discusses the risks and controversies (“headlocks,” chokes, force application), highlighting the challenges and the nuances of use-of-force reviews.
Jiu-Jitsu & Physical Skills (54:44 – 57:41):
- Both agree that regular officers should be trained to a basic level (blue belt) in grappling for better control and safer outcomes.

3. 2023 East Palestine Disaster: On the Front Line

Immediate Response & What Happened (69:45 – 80:34):
- Adam was activated as a National Guard MP, sent to secure the perimeter and assist with evacuation.
- The core of the crisis: a Norfolk Southern freight train derailed, threatening a catastrophic chemical explosion. Responders detonated tankers to perform a “controlled” release of vinyl chloride and other chemicals, causing a dramatic black mushroom cloud.
- “We watch this mushroom cloud just go up in the sky of this black smoke... Imagine seeing this with your naked eyes, like in front of you. So we see this, right? 30 seconds later, we get this taste of chemicals... your eyes started to burn, your skin was burning.” — Adam B. (77:50)
Health Impact on Responders (81:06 – 88:44):
- Adam and his fellow Guardsmen soon experienced burning eyes and skin, headaches, memory loss, and (in Adam’s case) severe, lasting urological issues and acute appendicitis.
- “This feeling in my stomach... headaches... minor vision problems... a week later is when it kind of just hit.” — Adam B. (84:18)
Lack of Protective Gear & Command Decisions (74:06 – 76:02):
- National Guard MPs were told not to wear protective masks to “avoid scaring the public,” despite being in close chemical proximity.
- “They told us right away, don’t wear those things. You don’t want to scare people... They told us, don’t wear them. And I'm like... geez.” — Adam B. (74:06)

4. Aftermath, Accountability, and Systemic Failures

Settlement, Fallout, and Medical Limbo (92:29 – 101:08):
- Corporations (Norfolk Southern) provided $600 million class action and miscellaneous $20k checks to those affected, but Adam and many first responders didn’t receive compensation or were unaware of eligibility until too late.
- “A lot of the people that were there that are still in the guard are afraid to say anything... Me, like, I’m out of the guard. I’ll talk about it.” — Adam B. (88:50)
Medical Issues Continue, Limited Follow-Up (97:20 – 100:14):
- Adam’s symptoms (memory loss, urinary/abdominal, cognitive) persist with minimal institutional support or specialized care.
- “There’s things happening in me that I can’t explain... I haven’t been right since, and I wouldn’t lie to you. Like, this has truly affected me.” — Adam B. (96:42)
Corporate Influence and Regulatory Evasion (104:16 – 105:56):
- Andy and Adam highlight that Norfolk Southern and other rail giants lobby to roll back safety requirements, minimize liability, and curtail settlement eligibility windows—at the expense of public and responder health.
- “Norfolk Southern has actively lobbied to weaken the bipartisan Railway Safety Act... The company significantly increases lobbying expenditures following the 2023 train derailment... Why does it have to be like that?” — Andy Stumpf (104:16)

5. Family, Mortality, and Legacy

Impact on Parenting and Mental Health (113:26 – 115:54):
- Past trauma with child deaths in combat and the current prospect of potentially terminal illness due to chemical exposure have deeply affected Adam’s relationship with his own children.
- “I love the Americans, man. Best people on earth. I love being there for people, you know, and if I’m not able to be there for them, it’s going to be a tough pill to swallow.” — Adam B. (112:58)
Recording Legacy for His Kids (117:54 – 127:49):
- Both discuss the healing and legacy value of leaving kids memories: “Take five minutes per day, dude. Pull your phone out and tell your kids... they will cherish those things for the rest of their life.” — Andy Stumpf (127:37)
Faith, Forgiveness, and Acceptance (119:01 – 131:40):
- Adam shares his Christian faith as a stabilizing force. He reflects on his sense of gratitude for the “good people” who helped him along the way and addresses forgiveness relating to his biological family and personal losses, including an overdose death of a brother.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Perspective:
“You and I have been places... Sometimes I just want to look at people and [say], call the balls and strikes. Be like, hey, we're doing amazing things here. But also over here, we're an absolute train wreck.” — Andy Stumpf (17:41)
On East Palestine Chemical Release:
“We were maybe 200 yards from this site... watched this mushroom cloud just go up... The only thing I can really compare it to is, did you ever put like a quarter in your mouth? Or a 9-volt battery? ... everybody at the same time was like, you know, you got this taste and your eyes started to burn, your skin was burning.” — Adam B. (77:50)
On Corporate Accountability:
“I would love to see a representative from that organization explain those things while in this next breath explaining to me how they actually care about safety... Explain to me these actions and show me how these two are intrinsically tied. It’s just insanity.” — Andy Stumpf (105:41)
On Legacy & Uncertainty:
“For legacy—to make sure that you have that or start trending in a direction where you become even more worried—man, you could live, we live in a world where you could leave... any conversation you want to with your kids and save it.” — Andy Stumpf (125:21)

Important Timestamps

Adam's Childhood & Foster Care: 10:44 – 16:25
Military Service & Tank Experiences: 01:49 – 09:14
Police Work & Domestic Violence Calls: 18:39 – 24:25
SWAT/Police Training Deficiencies: 57:44 – 63:46
East Palestine Disaster (Train, Chemicals, Exposure): 69:45 – 88:44
Health Consequences & Medical Limbo: 81:06 – 101:08
Settlement Windows & Corporate Evasion: 92:29 – 107:24
Family, Parenting, and Coping: 113:26 – 131:40
Calls to Action & Whistleblowing: 132:05 – 136:06

Calls to Action / Guest’s Hope

Adam urges more advocacy and direct aid for East Palestine residents and responders suffering lingering effects.
Emphasizes the need for better training and care for law enforcement and National Guard.
Invites other affected individuals to speak out and not let corporate or governmental red tape silence legitimate grievances.
“They [East Palestine residents] need to be taken care of... The same people, the same type of people that took care of me when I was adopted... they need to be taken care of.” (132:05)

Tone & Style

Authentic, candid, sometimes darkly humorous, but unwaveringly empathetic.
Andy holds space for Adam's vulnerable storytelling, probes for accountability, and offers practical wisdom on legacy and coping.
The episode blends hard-hitting disaster reporting, frontline “cop talk,” military veteran camaraderie, and raw reflections on trauma, family, and what it means to have a life well-lived despite adversity.

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A Mushroom Cloud Over Small Town America | Adam B. | Ep. 441