Cleared Hot Ep. 433 — "Built to Kill: Writing the Gray Man" with Mark Greaney

Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Mark Greaney (Author, The Gray Man series)
Date: February 16, 2026
Podcast Length: ~2.5 hours

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging and insightful conversation, Andy Stumpf welcomes bestselling author Mark Greaney, best known for The Gray Man series and for continuing Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan novels. The discussion explores Mark’s writing process, the impact of film adaptations, lessons from Clancy, experiences researching military and espionage realism, the pitfalls and evolution of publishing, and riffs on technology, AI, and social commentary.

Main Themes

• Longevity and Resilience in Creative Work: Emphasis on persistence, learning from mistakes, and “finishing what you start.”
• Adaptation of Books to Screen: How Hollywood translates novels, often imperfectly, and the unpredictable but major impact on an author’s career.
• The Craft of Writing: Mark’s practical advice and process, from stand-alone stories to character development to editing.
• Realism and Research: Greaney’s deep-dive research with military, intelligence, and law enforcement to get details right, without getting bogged down in minutiae.
• Media, Technology, and Society: The roles of AI, social media, and the evolving publishing business in modern life and commerce.
• Personal Growth: Reflections on late-in-life success, marriage, and the changing meaning of career, happiness, and legacy.
• Deeper Real-World Parallels: Fiction's interface with reality, the weaponization of media, and the blurry line between fact and fiction in spy thrillers.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Opening Banter and The Gray Man Film (00:00–06:00)

• Andy and Mark riff on coffee, spouses’ reading/watching habits, and the "shock" of seeing Chris Evans (Captain America) as a villain in the Gray Man Netflix film.
• Quote (Mark, 05:06): “You can not really ever sort of exaggerate...what [a movie adaptation] can do to somebody’s career. It’s been really helpful.”

The Book-to-Movie Pipeline & Author Impact (06:30–08:50)

• Film adaptation as career-changing “best advertising” for an author.
• Movie release creates ripple effects: “You can look at your numbers...number one really bumping, and then there’s number two going, and number three.” (06:16)

Writing Standalone but Connected Books (06:51–08:33)

• Each Gray Man novel stands alone, but the arc benefits from reading in order.
• Avoiding needless repetition; using “shorthand” to reference the protagonist’s background and evolving series details.

Research, Realism, and Community Access (08:34–14:21)

• Mark’s journey from layman to being welcomed by real practitioners for research (“...people have been great.” 08:48)
• Sometimes sources get anxious about what will go in books (“I don’t know what you’re going to put in that book.” 13:06)
• Most “classified” info is accessible through open sources—you just need “to know what to search for.” (14:47–15:06)

Clancy’s Legacy and the Hunt for Red October Phenomenon (16:13–18:44)

• Tom Clancy’s use of public documents, overwhelming government by the accuracy of his fiction (16:25).
• The “long tail” of book sales and the unpredictable spike of demand.

The Writing Life: Volume, Passion, Deadlines, and Burnout (19:43–25:02)

• Mark’s prolific pace: 1.4 books/year, sometimes writing two books annually, and prioritizing deadlines.
• “I always say, the best part of every book is the day you kind of think up the idea, and then...all the hard work comes.” (20:16)
• Passion vs. contract: “If I was just left in my own devices, I would not write nearly as much.” (23:10)

Breaking in and Early Rejections (25:46–35:43)

• Greaney’s first book took 15 years; only published after several iterations and rejections.
• Resilience: “You have to look at that as a good thing.” (59:58)
• Major breakthrough: being picked up by a top agent, then getting published after nine out of ten publishers said no.

The Move from Page to Screen—Film Rights, Hollywood, and Involvement (27:25–32:15)

• Initial option to Sony, Brad Pitt almost attached, then Netflix and the Russo Brothers make it happen.
• Mark’s input: Consulted early, but “never had any say; I was never on set.”
• Characters and plot often diverge widely from the books (“Chris Evans’s character wasn’t even in the book.” 31:16)
• Movie-writing constraints: compression of plotlines from several books into two hours.

Realism vs. Entertainment: Balancing Technical Detail (36:11–44:21)

• Tolkien’s rule for spy thrillers: “The detail has to serve the story.”
• Jack Carr’s ultra-realistic style vs. broader commercial appeal.
• “If you wrote it as it went [in real life]...it would be really boring.” (36:11)
• Memorable moments from other authors and Rob O’Neill’s audiobook narration.

Audiobooks: The Art and Challenge (42:24–43:49)

• Andy discusses the challenge and respect for audiobook narration—“Absolute respect” for pro narrators.
• Author-read nonfiction is a better experience because “you can kind of emote in a way that a narrator wouldn’t be able to” (43:22)

Deep-Dive Research Adventures (70:29–79:50)

• Mark describes building contacts through gun classes, bunkhouses, and eventually leveraging Clancy’s name for deeper access.
• Experiences from “flying an F-18” to researching with SWAT teams; “I don’t come from the background that a lot of people who write these books come from.” (75:56)
• Outsider’s eye brings valuable details insiders consider “white noise.”

The Merits and Mystery of Bestseller Lists (84:33–90:49)

• Times list is important for publishers and authors, but metrics are opaque.
• TikTok/booktok has shifted what appears on the NYT list: “Three or four authors are going to have like four or five of the top 15.” (87:12)
• “I want to keep doing these as long as people want to keep reading them.” (141:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On film adaptations:
  "It's very different from the books... Entertainment wise, it's great. It's like a spy genre movie for sure, kind of down the center of the road." (Mark, 30:43–30:48)

• On writing pressure and passion:
  "If I was just left to my own devices, I would not write nearly as much. I would dream and think about it and do little bits of research... the actual sitting down is the tough part." (Mark, 23:10)

• On persistence:
  "You just have to do it because you love it and you just have to finish what you start." (Mark, 150:25)

• On book research:
  "A smart editor or a smart director... is going to go like, 'Please shut up. Let me do what I know.' When the Gray Man, when I first wrote it, ...the agent was like, man, this is really good... he just needs to save somebody ... You're the writer, you gotta figure that out." (38:52–39:41)

• On the writing process:
  "Write your first draft like you can do no wrong, edit it like you can do no right." (Mark, 149:05)

• On the Gray Man as a series:
  "The series will end either with him dying or him, you know, ... I just want to see him happy. ... I'm like, no, you don't..." (Mark, 139:41–140:16)

• On Tom Clancy:
  “He was the biggest for a while. Bigger than Stephen King for, you know, a period of time.” (Mark, 91:34)

Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Gray Man film’s effect on book sales and author life — 05:00–08:00
• Book-to-movie Hollywood pipeline & Mark's involvement — 27:40–32:15
• Deep-dive realism and technical detail in writing — 36:11–44:21
• Breaking into publishing and dealing with rejection — 25:46–35:43 and 59:39–64:04
• Reflections on AI, tech, and social media’s impact — 50:33–56:53 & 128:53–131:31
• Advice for writers - Persistence, process, and editing — 148:08–150:27

Recommendations & Advice

• For Aspiring Authors:

  • “Finish what you start. ...Get it as good as you can get it, and then tell yourself it’s not that good.”
  • “Write your first draft like you can do no wrong, edit it like you can do no right.”
  • “You have to do it because you love it... It's just such a time suck if you're chasing outside validation.”

• For Readers:

  • The Gray Man books can be read in any order, but there is a story arc if you read in sequence.
  • If you enjoy action, espionage, and “gritty” spy novels with authentic detail, you’ll like the series.
  • Mark supports buying from independent bookstores—book tour info and signed copies available at markgreaneybooks.com.

Genuine/Candid Moments

• Mark and Andy swap stories of remarriage, dogs, and stepfamilies, grounding the high-octane talk in real life (104:05–108:24).
• Andy and Mark discussing “late-blooming” success—Mark first published at 42, and happier, more fulfilled in his 50s than ever (141:54–142:47).

Episode Conclusion

Andy and Mark wrap up with details about Mark’s new Gray Man novel, set for release February 17th, 2026. Mark gives a quick pitch for interested readers: “If you enjoy action-packed, gritty spy fiction with strong characters and deep research, this is for you.”

Andy gifts Mark a Montana-made tactical knife, and the two share genuine appreciation for the journey, the adventure, and the ongoing craft.

Further Resources

• Mark Greaney’s website, events, and signed books: markgreaneybooks.com
• The Gray Man series — Available everywhere books are sold.
• Follow Andy Stumpf on: Cleared Hot Podcast

“You just have to do it because you love it and you just have to finish what you start.”
— Mark Greaney (2:30:25)