Episode 370 - Greg Lapin

Summary

Cleared Hot Podcast Episode 370 - Greg Lapin

Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Greg Lapin
Release Date: January 20, 2025

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1. Introduction to Greg Lapin

Andy Stumpf opens Episode 370 by introducing Greg Lapin, highlighting his diverse background that spans military service, law enforcement, government contracting, and martial arts. Greg's multifaceted experiences set the stage for an in-depth conversation about personal growth, resilience, and overcoming adversity.

Notable Quote:

“Greg talks about his experiences openly and honestly. And I think it's incredibly empowering, not only to the person, but it's powerful for the listener too.”
— Andy Stumpf [04:28]

2. Greg's Law Enforcement and Military Background

Greg Lapin details his extensive career in law enforcement, starting as a police officer in New Orleans before advancing to roles with the sheriff's office and engaging in overseas operations. His military engagements include working with counterterrorism units in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), where he contributed to training and operational protocols.

Notable Quote:

“I was working as a mentor advisor in the United Arab Emirates for their counterterrorism.”
— Greg Lapin [11:55]

3. The Importance of Jiu Jitsu in Greg's Life and Training

Jiu Jitsu plays a pivotal role in Greg's life, both as a practitioner and instructor. As a high-level black belt, Greg emphasizes the significance of grappling skills in law enforcement and personal defense. He shares his journey from a novice to a respected instructor, highlighting how Jiu Jitsu has enhanced his physical and mental resilience.

Notable Quote:

“Control is what wins. So learn how to control people. Don't stop paying compliance.”
— Greg Lapin [38:16]

4. Personal Struggles with Depression and Suicidality

Greg bravely discusses his battle with depression and suicidal thoughts. He recounts a particularly dark period where, overwhelmed by personal and professional challenges, he contemplated ending his life. A life-saving phone call from a close friend interrupted his plans, leading him to seek professional help and begin his path to recovery.

Notable Quote:

“Suicide's a coward's way out. I've lost more friends to suicide than to gunfights or combat.”
— Greg Lapin [94:30]

5. Reflections on Mental Health and Vulnerability

The conversation delves into the importance of vulnerability in personal growth and mental health. Greg emphasizes that admitting struggles and seeking help are signs of strength, not weakness. He discusses societal perceptions, especially among men, regarding emotional openness and the stigma associated with mental health issues.

Notable Quote:

“Without being vulnerable, there's no growth. Without being vulnerable, there's no grace growth.”
— Greg Lapin [101:52]

6. Greg's Family Life and Current Professional Pursuits

Greg shares insights into his family life, highlighting the positive impact of his wife and children on his recovery and personal development. He discusses his role at Fieldcraft Survival, where he continues to teach and mentor, blending his law enforcement expertise with survival skills. Greg also touches on his passion for teaching Jiu Jitsu to his children, fostering discipline and physical fitness from a young age.

Notable Quote:

“I'm really enjoying being a dad now. My wife is a freaking rock star stud. She's the only reason I'm still married.”
— Greg Lapin [109:02]

7. Concluding Insights and Messages for Listeners

In the closing segments, Greg and Andy reflect on the broader implications of Greg's experiences. They discuss the importance of community support, authentic communication, and the role of physical disciplines like Jiu Jitsu in fostering mental resilience. Greg encourages listeners to reach out for help, support one another, and strive for personal excellence.

Notable Quote:

“If there's one person listening to this going, 'Maybe I will call my buddy and ask him for help,' that's It.”
— Greg Lapin [108:50]

Key Takeaways:

• Resilience Through Adversity: Greg's journey underscores the power of resilience and the importance of confronting personal demons to achieve growth.

• Role of Martial Arts: Jiu Jitsu is portrayed not just as a physical discipline but as a tool for mental fortitude and personal control, especially in high-stress professions like law enforcement.

• Mental Health Awareness: The episode champions the need for open conversations about mental health, challenging societal stigmas and encouraging vulnerability as a path to healing.

• Community and Support Systems: Greg emphasizes the significance of strong support systems, whether through family, friends, or professional help, in overcoming life's challenges.

Final Thoughts:

Episode 370 of Cleared Hot offers a candid and powerful narrative from Greg Lapin, blending tales of bravery and expertise with deeply personal struggles and triumphs. Listeners are left with a profound appreciation for the complexities of mental health, the transformative power of martial arts, and the enduring strength of the human spirit.

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Please note that advertisements and non-content sections from the transcript have been excluded to maintain focus on the episode's core discussions and insights.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Early Good morning everybody and welcome back. Episode 370. We are getting up there. Today's episode is with Greg Lapin. How to best describe Greg let's say law enforcement background. That could be the pin in the ground where we start. That branches out into a variety of other things from government contracting, starting in law enforcement, leaving law enforcement, coming back, starting as a police officer, then working his way into a sheriff time overseas, working with other government agencies, working with foreign entities as well, teaching their soldiers and forces as well, coming back to the United States, probably most recently recognizable as his role at Fieldcraft Survival. They have a gym, a jiu jitsu gym in their headquarters down in Provo which he is the head instructor of. So in addition to all those things, very high level black belt jiu jitsu instructor. And I think my favorite thing about Greg is that he is just brass tacks, honest. He talks about his experiences openly and honestly. And I don't want to give a spoiler alert, but I am, you know, going to warn some people here. We opened up talking about what could be considered a relatively dark subject matter, personal struggles, the highs and lows of life. And we don't even know necessarily how it came up, but talked a little bit in the beginning about the lows and we came back to it. And again, like I said, he talks about his experiences at a brass tacks, honest level. And that can be hard for people to hear or listen to. But I think it's incredibly empowering, not only to the person, but it's powerful for the listener too. And I hope that the listeners understand among listening to Greg talk about his experience and his background that you're not alone. And I'm sure he would want that message and sentiment sent out into the world as well. Now on that note, before we get into it, please join me in this journey for the next 60 to 90 seconds where I pay the bills Please join me and allow me to talk to you about the sponsor for today's episode that allows me to provide this podcast for free. This episode is brought to you by Montana Knife Company. If you've been a fan of the podcast, you probably have heard me sit down with Josh Smith, who is the founder of of Montana Knife Co. One of the best to ever do it. He is one of the most experienced master blade Smiths in the world and I think he was the youngest master bladesmith in the world. Montana Knife Company. I love it. The roots are in Montana. But don't worry, it's a, it's a global brand. It's just born and raised in Montana. Made in America, manufactured locally, literally 120 miles from where I'm sitting right now. And when I first met Josh, they were earlier in the journey and recently they broke into their tactical line. And I have two of these knives sitting in front of me right here. This is the War Goat. Now, this particular one you probably can't see, it has the Cleared Hot logo on there. And I'm going to start giving these away to the guests. This right here, also in their tactical series is this dagger. This thing is savage. And on that note, all of these knives are ridiculously sharp. If you get one of these things, please be careful. They come out of the box ready to shave hair off of your arm. So these are two examples of their tactical series. They do drop on Thursdays traditionally, but they're going to start adding Saturdays. They're really, really hard to get. Their inventory goes fast because demand is outstripping their ability to produce. But the brand gets it. I mean, even they've upgraded the box that these things come in. I love the colorway, by the way, the way that it opens and presents itself. It actually reminds me a lot of Apple and the way they present their products. Neither here nor there. I'm just saying they're doing a great job evolving on that front. And all I ask is this. If you buy something from their website, at the tail end of that, they're going to ask you what led you to Montana Knife Co. And you're probably going to either see my name or the Cleared Hot Podcast. Do me a favor, click on the Cleared Hot podcast or my name and that's it. Do your best get ready practice run through your checkout because I've actually had things taken out of my cart because so many people were online. But if you want a high quality blade that you can pass down for generations, montana knife company.com now let's get into the episode.

[B]

Okay, I got the red smoke.

[A]

Sun runs north or south?

[B]

West of the smoke. West of the smoke. Okay, copy. West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now.

[A]

Oh, wait a minute.

[B]

Give it to me. I mean it. You're cleared hot.

[A]

Copy.

[B]

Cleared hot.

[A]

Where. Where do we even start? Because I know we've talked offline about a substantial amount of to cover, but where do you want to begin?

[B]

I1, I think you're not doing a good job because I went to at least 100 people last night while I was in Kalispell going, don't know if you know this, but I'm going on Andy Stums podcast. Cleared hot. He's a Navy SEAL. And like, who the SEAL? Who the SEAL? Who the fuck's Andy Stumpf? I'm like, he's a SEAL.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, the guy that wakes up at 4:30. I said, no, that's Jocko. Oh, the guy who runs a lot? No, that's Goggins. So you're not doing a good job.

[A]

I am completely, utterly happy and comfortable with nobody knowing who I am.

[B]

Yeah. No, it's awesome. Yeah.

[A]

It.

[B]

Nobody knows who I am either, which is cool.

[A]

I know the people. I don't know Goggins. Well, we've crossed paths one or one or two times. I know Jocko, and I've been out in public with Jocko, and I actually was out one time in public with Jocko, and Joe and I watched. We were at an archery shop in San Diego. Performance archery in San Diego, where I got my first bow and Dudley was putting on. This was the weekend we were doing. Oh, God, this was a good weekend. This is the weekend that Dudley broke his neck doing Jiu Jitsu. By that I mean Jocko broke his neck. Oh, he was doing an Intro to Jiu Jitsu and left out how you end a role or, you know, the tap aspect of it. He assumed that, well, John watches ufc, so he knows what to do, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a later part of the story, though. So we were doing this weekend where I was teaching John how to skydive. John was teaching. Not that Dudley. Let me see. Dudley was teaching the archery. Jocko is very new into archery. Joe was not. And then we went to Jocko's gym and did some Jiu Jitsu. So it was pretty cool, right? We had three people. I mean, Jocko was obviously the jiu Jitsu specialist. Dudley was the archery guy. And skydiving. So got Dudley through his aff course. He was able to Jump on his own as a large man through the year. Large, large man.

[B]

Did you tandem him first or did he do AFF right out the gate?

[A]

A lot of people.

[B]

I did aff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I didn't do tandem. I did aff.

[A]

Some drop zones will force you to do a tandem as part of the.

[B]

And I heard now they're doing that. Is that a thing now? Is that an F?

[A]

So I'm out of it.

[B]

Okay. But.

[A]

So we're at performance archery. Jocko is there. He draws a crowd in of himself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joe shows up.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

The room was, I'm going to say, maybe six times the square footage of this room. And it took him 15 minutes to get from the door.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To the other side of the room. It's. I don't. I can't fathom what that would be like. I don't want to ever be in that place. I deeply appreciate being able to just have my own personal space and time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

The other thing, too, is, like, at least with me, like, at. At the party at Dave Ramsey's that we were at the Tucker Carlson.

[A]

What are your thoughts on that party? The ALP party?

[B]

The ALP party? Yeah. It was the ALP Pouch launch party.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not my scene. Yeah, it's not my scene. I was going there because I was asked to go there as a representative and talk to Tucker for some joint branding and marketing.

[A]

Were you ever able to.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tucker and I chat. He's actually texting me. He loves Lily. Okay. So, like, he and our actual Lily's the star. She gets me in anywhere.

[A]

You know, Javelin's kind of that way, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We keep telling Michael to take him on walks just to find dudes or women. It's a fluid situation. Neither. Leah and I are completely sure, but we also don't care.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Live your life.

[B]

It's 2025 now. Totally.

[A]

I'll get you a pair of wings if you wanted a cape, whatever it is you want. But, dude, that dog, I mean, you. He watches javelin for us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you ever take him anywhere?

[B]

Yeah, I took him to my parents. Oh, that's not what he meant. Dude, go down to, like, the Mercantile. Mercantile stakes.

[A]

You see what I have to do.

[B]

I took my mom.

[A]

I went hung out with my mom. Right before I asked you that question, we were talking about finding you a girlfriend or boyfriend, and I asked you if you've taken him anywhere, and you say to your moms, you're not helping me walk that Dog down Main street and people will be stopping you.

[B]

Like, I get it.

[A]

Lily's the best.

[B]

Yeah, And Lily's the same way. So, yeah, you know, I went out of obligation. I would never have chosen to go. She's right here itching and scratching her collar. But that's not my scene. I don't like schmoozing for me. I don't care how famous you are. I don't care how much money you have. I don't care that you have a hit record or that you're a famous race car driver. I care if you're a good person. Are you a good human? Are you a cool person? You know, so I'm going in and people are coming up to me with Lily. And when someone comes up to me like a normal human, I put my hand out and say, hey, how you doing? My name is Greg Lapin. Nice to meet you. Oh, yeah, cool. Your dogs. I'm like, and you are. And literally that happened like a half a dozen times at least. And like, oh, well, I'm. You know, I'm so. And so I have. I'm. I'm. I run this band. I'm like, sorry, dude, I don't know who you are. Yeah. Oh, well, I'm this. I'm like, sorry, dude, I don't know who you are. Like, I don't watch tv. I don't.

[A]

Isn't it weird when people will add what they do with their name and just a casual interaction?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

[A]

Hey, I'm Andy. Nice to meet you. I'm not going to follow up with here's my Professional Graffitis.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, no, it's same thing.

[A]

Interesting. When they come back the other direction, this is who I am, but this is also what I do, Right?

[B]

Well, they're so stuck on that identity where I think, you know some. A friend of mine asked me, like, a hard question. I say a hard question, but he's like, are you comfortable in your skin now? And I was like, yeah. He's like, are you really, like, for real? And we started deep diving and talking about it. And I can go back maybe even only six years. And I think my answer now, knowing what I know now, my answer would be, no, I'm not.

[A]

Because now you're not.

[B]

No, I am now. But even six years ago, I wasn't. And sure, six years ago I thought I was, but six years ago, I kind of almost. And I would still. I never introduce myself and go, hey, how you doing? I'm Greg Lapin. Yeah, I own A Jiu Jitsu academy. I'm a black belt. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like whatever. I don't care. Nobody cares. But I'd say six years ago, I was always trying to validate my. My bonafides, validate my. My. My purpose, you know, where now I'm like, this is who I am. This is what I do.

[A]

What do you think changed that?

[B]

Maturity, depression, being suicidal, almost killing yourself. Coming back from it. Yeah, yeah. You know, do you want to go alphabetically through that? Falling off the. Falling off the rails hard, you know, Living in my Jiu jitsu academy for 10 months.

[A]

How close did you get to actually ending it?

[B]

Gun in my mouth and phone ringing, which stopped me.

[A]

Who was on the other end of the phone?

[B]

A very, very close friend. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

How did you get to that point?

[B]

Oh, man, it was tricky, you know, So I had. I'd come back. I was working as a mentor advisor in the United Arab Emirates for their counterterrorism.

[A]

Even mean. I feel as it means one of two things. You were laundering money or you were their chai boy.

[B]

Both. Both. Actually.

[A]

Michael knows a good time to look up chai boy.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Do me a favor. Please log out of any account associated.

[B]

With my dark web. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And log in under your account, Andy Stumpf. What is a chai boy?

[A]

It doesn't matter. They got. They got me at this point.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, I was over there working by, with and through the Emirati counterterrorism special operations guys.

[A]

Emirati counterterrorism special operations guys. Okay.

[B]

For the Royal Guard and building best practices. Building training protocols and not having them shoot balloons off each other's heads.

[A]

What is wrong with that?

[B]

I mean, I thought it was awesome. I said you should put tea glasses. Chai tea glasses.

[A]

That's very James instead.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Whiskey shot for sure.

[B]

Exactly. I was like, well, guys, we do apples in the U.S. yeah, but.

[A]

And if you're really good, you'll shoot an ex president right in the ear.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Because it's an insider job. Just kidding everybody.

[B]

Dude, don't even start with that because now we got the Tesla cybertruck bombing. It was a Green Beret.

[A]

So I just did an episode on that yesterday and I actually opened it with by time capsuling it. Listen, this is what I know now. This is the 2nd of January. This is what has come out. I had heard he was in the military. It came out after that that he was a Green Beret. And it's interesting people. I've heard people Say it's impossible that he was actually a Green Beret or a real Green Beret, because there's no way that they could become radicalized. And I'm like, guys and gals, it's just people. Yeah, it's just.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Humans who are susceptible. Maybe less susceptible than your average cohort if you were to pull 100 people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But if you spend enough time around the red influence or you have a combination or culmination of life events which don't think for a second you're not telling the story of how you ended up with a pistol in your mouth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But a culmination of events that drive you to something like that. I mean, it's definitely possible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I'm here. Oh, it's ISIS has infected. You know, it's in the United States military. I'm like, maybe ideologically there might be.

[B]

People who carry that ideology inside the military. ISIS has not infected our military.

[A]

And I don't know to what degree. I do believe they are in the US But I don't know what degree. I broke it down more like a business structure. Like the first, the first time I heard the term ISIS or isil, I think it went Taliban, Al Qaeda, isis, isil. That was kind of the trajectory. Even though the Taliban, I'm going to strip out of that. They're like a gang organization in Afghanistan. But Al Qaeda, isis, isil. I would say in a business model, those are the full time players. If you're aligned with that, they're the C suite. Everybody else is kind of a foot soldier. I don't think we have any of the C suite people in the US military, but it is possible that people have been radicalized to the foot soldier level. I wouldn't be shocked though if we had some C suite players in the.

[B]

U.S. oh, I would, I would say.

[A]

I'd be surprised if we did.

[B]

If we didn't. Yeah, I'd be surprised if we didn't. So I never went to Afghanistan. All my time was based out of Iraq, based out of Baghdad when I was working one for first initially for the State Department and then for the nsa. What years were you in Baghdad?

[A]

Off and on between 2002 and the middle of 2005. Okay, sorry, 2003. Because the war didn't kick off till 2003.

[B]

Okay, okay. Don't steal valor, dude.

[A]

I wasn't trying to. We have plenty of friends.

[B]

So I was, I was there later. I got there later than you. I didn't get to Baghdad until 2006.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But some of the stuff we were collecting because I was on the second, you know, the deal. Right. Some of the stuff we were collecting back in 2006 was pushing Homeland attacks. And we. We collected intel that after obviously talking to the analysts, all that stuff. Over 40 schools, blueprints, plans for schools in the US all to get hit same. Same day, Beslin style. So nothing elaborate.

[A]

I don't think they have the complexity to be able to do that.

[B]

Maybe not.

[A]

I bet they would want to. Yeah, it's. I don't know, man.

[B]

I'm concerned they do now. I'm concerned they have the personnel and the. The network.

[A]

How would they command and control that though? I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just trying to reverse engineer this.

[B]

Yeah, it is a massive command and control issue, especially from like decentralized leadership.

[A]

And getting all that out, especially planning four different objectives. 4T. Sorry, let's add zero to that. 40 objectives. A school is not an individual. Well, I take that back. I mean most of the school shootings other than Columbine have actually been individuals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Looking at it tactically though, if I was, I would look at it as more than a single person.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No Beslin style. Three to five individuals.

[A]

There's the planning, coordination, communication, leadership, infrastructure and architecture. The umbrella over the top of that. Not saying it's impossible to hide, but.

[B]

That would be difficult. That would be tough for sure. And you know, I. Going back to, you know, it would definitely be tough. There's definitely a lot of. A lot of things to shuffle to, especially initiate it all rough. Right at the same time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Same day. You know, maybe that's possible. I think if they. Once one happens, every school is going to get locked down.

[A]

In the States, there were two in the same day. I bet you it would be a lockdown and evacuation almost immediately.

[B]

Yes, absolutely. It should be at least. Yeah, it should be.

[A]

So their timing and coordination would have to have the Swiss clock.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. And that's. I mean, I was here on time. I set my watch to Zulu time, so I wasn't an hour late like some. Greg's.

[A]

We know that is true. Greg Anderson cannot be on time. What is hilarious is that he started texting me after he crossed the time threshold where his clock flipped an hour 40. He was driving here from near Seattle and he was just like, I'm sweating profusely. My anxiety is crippling. I can't believe. I'm like, dude, I. We're just going to sit down and Have a conversation. But of course, I'll never forget that.

[B]

And not hold it over 100%. No, we're going to use that against you forever. Forever.

[A]

As he deserves it. But, yeah, it's. I would be surprised if that infrastructure isn't here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I guess the question is, what do you do about it?

[B]

You know, preparedness, readiness, police involvement, police training. Like actually being vigilant. That's the problem. You know, even the New Orleans Bourbon Street. So obviously I'm. I'm not from there originally, but I spent the last 20 years in New Orleans. I started as a New Orleans cop.

[A]

Nolan's.

[B]

Yeah. Nollins. Don't say that. Don't say that. And don't say New Orleans either. It's New Orleans. Okay. I started as a New Orleans policeman as a young guy in my, you know, my early mid-20s.

[A]

Probably never arrested anybody drunk on Bourbon Street.

[B]

I didn't actually. I didn't do any of that stuff. Believe it or not, I've written two citations in my entire career. One was during fto, during field training officer phase, because I had to check that block as a rookie.

[A]

So they'd leave you alone and let you out on your own.

[B]

Exactly. And then the other one was I was basically had a target and I needed a traffic stop because I knew he was carrying weight in his car. Was when I was with narcotics, and I had to wait for him to make a traffic violation so I could have a unit stop him and write him a traffic citation. Cause I knew he had weight in the car.

[A]

So what if he's an impeccable driver and just follow.

[B]

We're following him forever, dude. God. Man, he used blinker. Three seconds at the stop sign.

[A]

Never. California rolls. Always gives the pedestrian the right way.

[B]

Here's a clue they're not.

[A]

Yeah, but if you. I mean, if you're going to be a drug dealer, probably better to be a good driver.

[B]

You. I mean, you should be. And you'd think, like, you wouldn't be smoking a joint, like, with the windows open. This was obviously before, you know, weed was all legal most places and stuff and.

[A]

No, you think you want to fly under the radar, you're going to operate too.

[B]

Like peas. Cues. Yeah.

[A]

Or maybe be more sophisticated and pay somebody else to drive your stuff around.

[B]

Bingo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's what I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

So how was it in New Orleans, being a cop?

[B]

It was wild. It was. It was awesome. It's funny because it kind of goes back to my origin story. So like most kids. How old are you?

[A]

47.

[B]

Okay, so you're a year ahead of me. I'm 46. I grew up going to the army surplus store and buying all the Vietnam era. But like soft stuff. Like none of the conventional stuff.

[A]

Like Vietnam era soft stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So 100% conventional stuff.

[B]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. But like back then, like if you wore tiger stripes. Yeah, like, that was cool.

[A]

It may have Velcro instead of maybe a metal clip.

[B]

I don't even know if they had that back then. It was like buttons.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. The snap. The ones have the little dot because you have to put it on the correct direction.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

God, those have been bane of my existence more times.

[B]

But the short boonies, not the regular full size issue booties. The short boonies. So, like, I was reading like Men with Green Faces.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Without Remorse, a whole bunch of other books. And I, I wanted to be a seal or I knew I want. I didn't know what seals yet were. Honestly, I didn't know because I had some, like, long range reconnaissance books. And also I didn't know what seals were. I just knew I wanted to be one of those guys with the green and black boots that didn't blouse them and just let their pants hang and the short little boonies, you know, with the face paint. Those are the guys I want to be. I didn't want to be the green uniforms with the helmets and all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, well, you got to let the leeches up your pant leg if you want to get attacked.

[B]

I mean, of course, you know, and that's those. That's who I wanted to be. And then a little bit fast forward, I saw the amazing documentary that you watched as well with Charlie Sheen and Michael Bain.

[A]

Very like a day by day, play by play.

[B]

Yeah, well, like, who doesn't want to wake up drunk on the beach and then jump off a jeep off the bridge?

[A]

I heard the cocaine budget for that movie was high.

[B]

Oh, I'm sure it was super high back then. I'm sure with Sheen it was super high. Yeah. So I decided, you know, oh, I'm going to go be a Navy seal. And then I started reading SEAL stuff and doing all that stuff. And Stuart Smith, remember he had his, like, book to get fit for the seals and Come College to end. Sorry, end of high school, I told my parents, I want to go to college. I want to go in the military. I want to. I want to go do this thing called seals. And my parents are very proper. My dad was white collar Even though my dad grew up dirt. Dirt poor, he grew up in Providence, Rhode island, like in the slums. Worked his way up, went to a, like a job fair and got a job at the lowest level at a foreign currency trading bank and worked his way up till he was VP one day. Worked his ass off. Mad respect for him. Not my. Not my career path. And what did my parents know? If you want to be successful, you got to go to college. Back then, this was, you know, this was 30 plus years ago.

[A]

Oh, that was the traditional path.

[B]

Yeah, it was a traditional passion. You want to be successful, got to go to college.

[A]

Yeah, you're like an anarchist if you didn't have your trajectory lined out and your major and your student loans.

[B]

Exactly, yeah, yeah, exactly. Student loans is a big thing. So my parents said, we'll take you to a recruiter, but you should go to officer recruiter. And we want you to go to college and then you can do it. I was like, all right. I wasn't at the stage of like, really bucking my parents a ton and want to make them happy and blah, blah, blah. So I went to a officer recruiter for the Navy, told him, like, probably everybody else does, I want to be a seal. And I went in there and he filled out all this paperwork with me, and he had no idea what he was doing on recruiting duty.

[A]

What year was this?

[B]

Who? 96.

[A]

Yeah, this was before the SEAL career had launched into the right modern day. I mean, I don't even know what the best description is. Spotlight.

[B]

Yeah, there was no. There was no A school for Special Operations Operator, Whatever it is now.

[A]

So. Yes. Yeah, I think it is Special operator.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It was like you had to go to an A school and they filter you to the shortest A school and blah, blah, blah. And so I went to this recruiter, filled all the paperwork, and we get to the questionnaire stuff where he's like, do you have any food allergies? And I was like, yeah. He's like, what are you allergic to? I was like, I'm allergic to tree nuts. Nuts always get you, man. So he put that down. It was like, what, like almonds, pecans, walnuts. Cool. Yeah, no big deal. Have you ever gone to amphylaxis? Blah. No, I haven't. Put it down. Well, fast forward. Forgot about all that. Went off to college, found a BUDS Motivator program. Now there's a lot of these special operations programs, but found a BUDS Motivator program. It's probably a freshman in college. Ish. And got Linked up with all these reserve seals and retired seals doing this Buds Motivator Program 1 weekend every month. And then we'd go off and do, like, an evolution. We went down to Virginia beach one year for like a week, went to Annapolis for a week, blah, blah, blah. And I'm ready to dep in. I was actually in the BUDS Motivator program with Mike Murphy. So Mike Murphy and I were going through this together, parallel. He was a year ahead of me, so he dipped in a year before I was getting ready to depend. So he went and depped in. He's off. I go to dep in. I go to MEPs, and they go, wait a second here. It says that you have an allergy to tree nuts. Like, yeah, well, that's considered an allergy to common foods. It's a disqualifier. I'm like, what are we even talking about? Well, don't worry, you can apply for a waiver. I'm like, I don't know what any of this means. Right. And you know how. You know how recruiters are and all that stuff, they're super spot on, super switched on. Right?

[A]

They always know what they're talking.

[B]

Always. Always. So I go back to the captain, who is over our BUDS Motivator program. I go. They wouldn't even, like, let me go even further through MEPs because they said, I've got this thing in my. In my form.

[A]

Where were you supposed to get the waiver from?

[B]

So we send that paperwork down to bumed.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

So it goes down to Bumed for the waiver forever. It's down there for however long, I don't remember, and it comes back, and I'll never forget this when they bring back the paperwork. Big red stamp, PDQ'd, permanently disqualified. Allergy to common foods. And this was before the war. So I'm like, what does that mean? Means you're disqualified. Like, permanently.

[A]

Like, ok, how about this allergy? If you eat one. Are you talking, like, throat closing up?

[B]

Well, a little bit.

[A]

Not like. But like, I don't want to test this.

[B]

Yeah. I don't need an EpiPen.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't need an EpiPen. Like, I'm fine. I take some Benadryl. I get real sick. I throw up, I feel miserable.

[A]

How long does that cycle take?

[B]

It's like a meth head.

[A]

Like, 24 hours.

[B]

No, like the second. Like, it's the second.

[A]

I mean, the few hours.

[B]

Yeah, a few hours. Yeah. It's not too bad.

[A]

It doesn't sound too good.

[B]

Actually, no, it's not great. It sucks. But I've kind of grown out of it now, so fortunately.

[A]

Meaning you can tolerate tree nuts a little bit.

[B]

Certain. Yeah. Walnuts I'm not even allergic to anymore. And I found that out in a really unconvenient place, but I was like, thank God I found that out on a ship in the Gulf of Aden doing anti piracy work.

[A]

Yeah, that's not the place to have that reaction.

[B]

The chef threw walnuts in. Get this. Chicken quesadillas. We're chowing down. Yeah, we're chowing down. Chicken quesadillas. Chow. We're starving. I'm like, this chicken's kind of overcooked and crunchy. I'm like, doesn't taste like you can open up and there's walnuts in the chicken case.

[A]

Did you at least have an EpiPen on you?

[B]

No. Fuck that. Why would. Why would I do that? Something like that.

[A]

Because you don't want to die. That's the answer to that.

[B]

Fair enough.

[A]

Pdq.

[B]

So. Pdq. So, yeah. So fast forward. I meet a bunch of guys, a bunch of soft guys. Different. Different branches, different soft guys through all this. And I'm going to school at Rutgers University in New Jersey, and I end up connecting with a guy who just got out of force reconnaissance. He's about 10, 12 years older than me. Ish. Roughly. And we link up, and I'm there. I'm like, in the pool every day, swimming in the gym. Like, I'm like, I'm still. I'm like, I'm still going. I'm sending off letters to congressmen, senators. And, like, in my head, I'm still going. And we link up, we start training together. He's like, I'm gonna help you get it. Like, I'm gonna try to get you prepped. So he's doing all, like, the hard skill stuff with me, and he's teaching me how to land nav, and we're going off on rucks and we're shooting together and all this stuff. We've become pretty good buddies. And through all this, when it finally got determined, like, hey, you're not getting it, and, like, you're not getting into the military. Then the towers happen, and I'm like, what about now? So I go down to an army recruiter and I go, hey, can I talk to you outside real quick? And Now I'm like, 22ish. And he comes outside. I'm like, you can choose to hear this or not hear this. So here's the Deal. And I fill him in, and he's like, I didn't hear anything. I'm like, roger that. So I go in.

[A]

What he means by that is when you get to this particular box on.

[B]

The location, you just skip it. Exactly, right? So I go and fill all new paperwork out with the Army. I'm going in for a Army Ranger contract. And I go down to MEPs, go through MEPs, get through all the medical stuff, have the doctor look at my butthole, everything, you know, And I get to the job classifier. And when I get to the job classifier, someone comes in the room and goes, what about this paperwork?

[A]

No way. I found your Navy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You were so close.

[B]

Yeah, I was so close, dude. I feel like I was right there. I was right there, dude.

[A]

Yeah, you were in the tunnel and you see the light? Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they found the paperwork and I got. I got booted. So I was like, what do I do now? Like, that was literally the only thing I want to do since I was like, seven years old. They're like, go find the most dangerous city in the country and become a cop.

[A]

What horrible advice.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I did. It was awesome. It was actually awesome.

[A]

Well, yeah, go pursue an advanced degree. Change the world for the better.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Go find the most bro.

[B]

You know? You know me, you think I'm going to change the world for better? Like, being a doctor, giving you the.

[A]

Advice, could have swung for the fences a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. You know, go win a Nobel Peace.

[A]

Prize or try to.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, go be a cop in the war city.

[A]

Right, okay.

[B]

So, yeah, so I went become a cop down in New Orleans. And honestly, like, I don't want to say I had a chip on my shoulder. That's not the right term. But I was always wondering, like, well, what if. Yeah, could I have done it?

[A]

That's super common.

[B]

What's the difference between them and me? But I'll be honest. Like, I had everything that I wanted as a cop in New Orleans. I spent a very, very short amount of time on patrol and got in a lot of. So this is kind of funny. This is a good story. So I was groomed through the academy, basically. And they said, hey, when he. This guy, kid gets out of the academy, we want him to go with this ftl. This FTO was a young jacked dude. All natural, of course. All natural. All natural. Chicken breasts, broccoli, lots of acai. Yeah, acai.

[A]

And vitamin Winstrol.

[B]

Kanye Yeah, yeah, yeah, Definitely a lot of Winnie and equipoise and, you know.

[A]

I can tell people how to live their life.

[B]

Hey, I don't.

[A]

Consequences to decisions.

[B]

There are. I don't judge. There are consequences. Decisions for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so they put me with him. He was a narcotics guy forever, and he went back to FTO because he was a single dad and he could choose his shift, so now he could drop his son off and pick his son up off at school. And I get to him the first day, and I'm about 20 pounds heavier. I'm a pretty jacked young dude. And he looks at me, he's like, all right. He's like, hey. I'm like, what do you need me to do? What do we need to do? Like, you want me to put us 10, 8. Put it in 10, 8. It means we're. We're ready for duty. Yeah, right. He's like, no, no. Call dispatch, tell them we're at the station doing vehicle maintenance. I'm like, okay. Yeah, dispatch is 1123. We're at the station for vehicle maintenance. I'm like, what's, what's wrong with the vehicle? What do we need to do? He's like, nothing. We're going hunting, dude. He's like, here's the deal. We get in the car.

[A]

Training day.

[B]

Yeah, you think? Yeah, right? So anyway, we're in this El Camino and it's low riding Washington. And he passes me a joint, but it' actually laced. So we, we get in the car and he pulls up the computer and he goes, see all those calls that are holding for Those are like. And there's like burglary reports from the night before and a car, Little minor car accident. He's like, if you go 108, they're going to give you one of those reports. Clear all that stuff you're going to clear. So we're going to let all the slugs clear it. And we go into the hood and literally day one, out the gate, he basically forces me into a foot chase, into a fight. And he's like, all right, you're okay. Lapping. We're good.

[A]

I don't know if you'd find that in any doctrinal manuals.

[B]

No, no, no, no. And that's the thing. Like, I mean, New Orleans, one of the great things that was about New Orleans is it was about as unconventional and lawless as you could get, so you could really do your work as a job. And it was super dangerous. Yeah, I'm exaggerating a Little bit. But I truly don't remember one shift that I worked where I wasn't involved in a foot chase, car chase, fight, responding to a shooting, involved in a shooting in some form of fashion. Whether it was actually me or someone else. We would respond to shootings in the city probably almost every night.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we would respond to officer involved shootings once a week, once every two weeks. It was wild. So I got a ton of experience. Worked in narcotics, worked undercover, Worked in what's called the Criminal Intelligence Bureau, working confidential informants. Got to go to a bunch of schools that were run by CIA guys to learn about, you know, basically surveillance, counter surveillance, working informants, cultivating informants, you name it. And then did SWAT stuff and then went off and contracted for for a while and then came back and finished up as a, as a full time SWAT guy.

[A]

Had you already found jiu jitsu when you were foot chasing and fighting with people or that's your lever?

[B]

That was my catalyst, bro. That was my catalyst. It's like I was, I was a young, strong, tough guy and I, I kind of. I had a bunch of boxing experience there. I had a bunch of boxing experience growing up. I played ice hockey since I was 4. So I fought a lot. Which is just boxing on skates. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Which is. Actually, I've been to.

[B]

Even as kids, dude, I've been to.

[A]

A couple live hockey games. You want to talk about impressive? Just don't watch any of the hockey. Just stare at their feet.

[B]

Yeah. Holy massive. Watch the way the skates.

[A]

It's unbelievable.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah.

[A]

And then, hey, let's rip off our jerseys and just start fighting.

[B]

Whack. Whack. We're just going to eat them, dude. We're just going to both just eat punches.

[A]

It's sometime between thinking about getting my jersey over my head and having it, I'd be a flat on my back. I would just eat shit on the skates.

[B]

It's really impressive when you see a guy do nice like judo ippon or something on someone. Yeah, I love that.

[A]

More power too.

[B]

And then the rest dive in.

[A]

How far into these street fights in uniform did you realize you needed to up your grappling game?

[B]

Oh, yeah. So really not that far. So I realized that I could run dudes down because I was fast and strong. I could jump fences.

[A]

Sometimes you don't want to run dudes down. Well, yeah, you gotta touch them.

[B]

Exactly. You gotta touch them. And I could punch dudes, but then they would punch me back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, oh, I need to learn how to, like, control someone. So I found a jiu jitsu academy in the city, started training, like most young, strong guys. I knew everything. And the GI was stupid, right? Because we don't fight in geese.

[A]

Weren't people wearing clothing?

[B]

Clothes or geese? Guess what? Guess what, folks? Clothes are geese.

[A]

And I don't know what the weather is normally there, but I feel like there's some point in time where sweatshirts are around.

[B]

Yeah. Small, but yes. I mean, there's clothes nonetheless. And I'm wearing clothes if anything else, you know, so it's like, folks, train in the gi, please.

[A]

Or how about this? Just do both.

[B]

Yeah, do both.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right? So I focus mostly on no gi. And I would literally pressure test what I learned that day on shift that night. So I'd go out and be like, I'm gonna try. I chase a guy down, tackle him. I'm gonna try this.

[A]

Boom.

[B]

Get punched. Oh, that didn't work. I don't know that good enough. Run them down again, Tackle him, you know? But, yeah, that's when I started training Jiu Jitsu.

[A]

How far into the jiu jitsu journey did it really start making a difference in the. The policing?

[B]

Six months. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like, say that little.

[A]

You and I both know, six months on the mat, staring at the ceiling, trying to figure out what's happening to you is a long journey.

[B]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know how many ceiling tiles there are? You know how many fan blades there are? You can't get out. You don't know what's happening.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The first six months to actually probably. I'd say a couple years. They're pretty rough.

[B]

Oh, dude. When I started training with the Brazilian dudes in Abu Dhabi, I would literally be driving to training, hoping I'd get into a fender bender so I didn't have to go to training. I'm like, I'm not even kidding.

[A]

I have heard they have rooms over there just full of black belts. Hundred dudes, black belts. All savages.

[B]

The garage. We'll talk about the garage, but the garage is, like, the secret fight club of Al Ain, United Arab Emirates. And it's just. Yeah, it's a sea of just black. Nothing but black. Brazilian black belts.

[A]

Did you find in your own experience, once you started understanding grappling better, that it not only made you safer, but your control of the subject as well, too?

[B]

Massively, it wasn't. It wasn't. And elbows. It wasn't like a Tasmanian devil fist fight. Anymore. It was literally like, run, chase, grab, tackle, hold.

[A]

Why. Why does that seem to be lost on a lot of guys and gals to this day? You still. And again, not that what you see on the Internet is always reflective of the larger community, but you see some of the worst stuff of cops getting their asses handed to them, let alone like the situational awareness that got them up to that point, but not able to control even somebody that is drastically smaller than them.

[B]

We're unfortunately actually starting to see a slight shift in the right trend in the right direction. But the problem is the majority of the trainers, the majority of the post councils around the country are run by dinosaurs and they're still teaching pain compliance. I don't believe in pain compliance. I think pain compliance is a farce. Especially if you had drugs or alcohol and period. You're not on drugs or alcohol right now that I know of.

[A]

No.

[B]

And if I came over and I gave you a big double under hug and just held you, you probably wouldn't start. Like, you'd look at. You'd look at my Coleman, you'd look around like, all right, it's getting a little weird now. He's hugging me way too long. Yeah, but you wouldn't be like, right, but if I come up and I put my arm around you, I give you a big sternal rub right away you're gonna push me away. Pain compliance creates our own fight or flight. Yeah, we're creating that. Whereas. Yeah, she's like, she wants attention.

[A]

That's all right.

[B]

Whereas control is. Is what wins. Control is what wins. So learn how to control people. Don't stop paying compliance. The other thing that I love is they'll go, give me your hands. Put your hands behind your back. Boom, boom. Put your hands behind your back. What think we're gonna do? I'm gonna be blocking and covering and grabbing like.

[A]

Or they're laying on the person and their hands are underneath and they're not trying to hide them, but they physically can't put their hands behind their back.

[B]

Hey, we're our own worst enemies, you know, and, like, we create our own fight or flight. So that's when I teach cops. I don't. I stop. All that stupid stuff that you've learned. Get rid of it. Forget about it. Pain compliance doesn't work. What if. If I'm gonna use a Kimura or an arm bar or some sort of joint manipulation on the street with someone, I'm not gon. And hold it for pain compliance. I'm going to immediately Break the joint to limit your ability to fight me as effectively. Period. I'm not using it for pain compliance. I'm using it to limit your capability of fighting. Done. You know, so I don't believe in pain compliance. I believe in control. Learn how to control someone.

[A]

Do you think that the groundswell is moving in the right direction?

[B]

Yes. I'm finally starting to see it. Companies like my good friend Chad lyman, he runs C4CPJ Police Jiu Jitsu. Great program. And he doesn't do instructor certifications. He does level one through five. You can't. He's like, you can't come to my five day course if you don't grapple and be an instructor after five days. Sorry. So if you're brand new, you get a level one cert. Someone like you, you'd go through that course and be like, oh, all right. You know how to grapple, you know how to fight. You're going to be a level five. And now you can teach, right? Except I don't.

[A]

I'm not teaching. People ask me Jiu jitsu questions. I'm like, I'm not a coach, man. Yeah, sorry.

[B]

Yeah, but you have. You have a innate anecdotal knowledge of technique.

[A]

Sometimes. Sometimes people ask me stuff and I say, you need to send me a YouTube video because I don't even understand. Oh, same thing out of your.

[B]

Same thing. Don't ask me about 50, 50 guard. Yeah, don't ask me about 50, 50 stuff. My response is, what do you don't know inside senkaku? I don't know.

[A]

Is there an English version of what you just asked me? Because I don't understand it.

[B]

No, I don't understand that either. Yeah, I don't. I don't use Japanese words. I teach. I teach a lot of judo at my academy, and I do know some of the Japanese judo terms for it.

[A]

I don't know what an uchimada is.

[B]

Yeah, uchimada. Osoto gari.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, drop sanagi.

[A]

I can count to 10 in Japanese. I mean, that's.

[B]

Oh, look at you. Yeah.

[A]

Well traveled.

[B]

It's very, very sophisticated. You said people like this.

[A]

That's there. Yep. Least favorite noise.

[B]

All right, there you go. There you go, folks.

[A]

For you, how you know all the stuff that you did in law enforcement. When did you decide to leave?

[B]

So I. I took a brief hiatus. I didn't like to. I didn't like seeing where things were going. I was involved in a shooting in 2009. That was a good shoot. Bad guy with Gun bad guy with Glock 26 with a 30 round magazine spare. Yeah. And. And this is a note. I think that 30 Round magazine is probably. I don't want to say it saved my life, but it kept it from being a more long, drawn out gunfight.

[A]

Did it not function appropriately?

[B]

So at some point during the engagement process, which went about a city block and a half, he had a malfunction. Unbeknownst to me, it was dark as 3am yeah. But when we recovered the gun, it had a malfunction.

[A]

I wonder if. How did. I mean, you gotta have such a powerful spring inside of that 30 round magazine.

[B]

Well, I think what happens is when you don't have an actual base plate on the base of the magazines, if you push a ton of pressure into the gun and the magazine especially, it's.

[A]

Plastic on the bottom.

[B]

Exactly. And the magazine can get pushed up into that magazine. Well, it can impede that slide from cycling and vice versa, I think, with that mag signal if it gets pulled on. But actually, one of. And I only know this because we get autopsy reports as cops, right? We get to look at the autopsy reports. One round took his pinky off, left a groove in the magazine, exposed magazine railroaded up his arm like a, like literally a groove on the outside. And then ended up in his lung. Really? Because he was like this, shooting at me.

[A]

Very stable shooting position.

[B]

Yeah, well, he's running. He was running away at that point.

[A]

That's the only way you can make that position more stable, Right?

[B]

Exactly. All right. You got to invert. You got to invert the gun.

[A]

And if you want to get another few feet per second, you assist.

[B]

Oh, yeah, you throw. I mean, curve the bullets a little bit too, right?

[A]

Let's not defy physics, dude.

[B]

You know they teach that over at. Damn that. Come on, man.

[A]

I wish. Go around the pig.

[B]

But yeah. So I was involved in a shooting in 2009, and I took a brief hiatus and contract a little bit before that. Like I said, I was in Iraq in 2006 after another use of force. Because you get use of force especially. I hate to say it, but as a white police officer in New Orleans, the majority of the people that you're working with are black. The majority of the people that you're interacting with from a criminal element are black. It's just the way it is. I'm not a racist. That's just the way it is. But it becomes a racial issue, right? And then the pastors get involved in all this stuff. So I was reassigned after Use of force early on in, like, 2005. And I took a leave of absence instead of resigning. Took leave of absence, went overseas, contracted for a little over a year, and.

[A]

They'Ll come right back. You don't have to do any, like, recurrency training.

[B]

Yeah, you got to come back and. And update your quals and all that stuff. But nothing. Nothing major. Yeah, it's nothing major. And then I came back. And then in 2009, I was reassigned after that shooting, and they reassigned me to the horse stables, to the mounted unit. Not as a mounted cop. Like, I couldn't go out and do cool stuff and ride a horse and be like, oh, police cowboy. Like, I was like, exercising the horses and cleaning the horses and stuff. I'm like, this is B.S. am I clear? Oh, yeah, it's a good shoot. Then why am I still here? Well, the optics and blah, blah. I'm like, put me back with my unit or I'm resigning.

[A]

How long did they say you were going to be in that role, or did they even say?

[B]

They didn't say it was. It was. Yeah, they didn't say. And I think I weathered the storm for about six months. I weathered the storm for about six months. You'll get that drinking thing down someday. It'll be.

[A]

Sometimes I miss the mouth hole in the lip. You know what I mean? A little bit on the chin. Yeah, I'm talking.

[B]

I'll probably do it, but yeah. So I just had enough. And I saw the political climate starting to change then, and so I left and started contracting again. And then I contracted from 2000. Mid 2009 till 2013. No, I'm sorry, 2017. And then came back and got back on the job as a cop, but with the sheriff's office out in the new area where I lived in Louisiana, much more rural, much more conservative. What do they call them?

[A]

A parish.

[B]

Parish, yep. Parish. It's county. Because it's still Napoleonic law in Louisiana.

[A]

I was gonna say. Is that specific to Louisiana? The parishes specific?

[B]

Yep. Specific to Louisiana.

[A]

So when you were contracting, that's when you were over in the Emirates, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Let's go back to this Royal Guard.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How many are there in the Royal Guard? And I ask that because I feel like everybody there is royalty to some degree. Infrastructure.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So how big is this Royal Guard?

[B]

I couldn't tell you. They have. They have units. So it's big. Yeah, yeah, it's big. Because within the Emirates, they have different states. So Dubai is a state. Abu Dhabi is A state.

[A]

And there's so many princes and.

[B]

Oh, it's massive. Yeah, it's massive. Yeah. So, yeah, it's. It's a big, big, big organization. Yeah, it's a real big organization from. And. And also, like a lot of places over there they call. Their Royal guard is essentially like socom, if you will. That's what they kind of call it.

[A]

Do they consider to be a federal military role, or is that a state entity?

[B]

So there's no posse comitatus over there. Yeah, so it's a little of both.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, they just. They can work within. Within the domestic area of the uae. Yes. Yeah, yeah, very. Now, here's what's interesting. So, because everyone in the UAE. So in the UAE, only 33% of the population is actually Emirati.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

Actually, all the rest of the population is expats that they bring in to do all the work.

[A]

Yeah. Or people who have immense amount of money who want to not pay tax on it.

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

Which I have no issue with.

[B]

Mostly Russians and mostly.

[A]

A little bit more of an issue with that, but.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And not. Not making money the right way. Right, yeah. So UAE is tribal, but everybody knows everybody. Like, everybody's related. Yes.

[A]

The whole region is tribal.

[B]

Yeah. And they're all related in one faction or another. They're all related. So for domestic terrorists, their. Their domestic counter terror unit is Colombian special forces guys that are run.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. That are run by American special Special operations guys.

[A]

Run as in their command and controlling, or run as in they're on target.

[B]

Both command, control, training, and on target.

[A]

Get some.

[B]

Yeah. So because you can't tell an Emirati, okay, here's our target in Abu Dhabi, he's like, oh, that's so and so's cousin. I'm gonna. Right, yeah. So to keep it insular, they have these Colombians there that are run by a friend of mine. When I was there, a friend of mine who's a former unit guy was running. He's. He's passed since, but yeah, running them, training them, on target with them domestically, doing counterterrorist stuff.

[A]

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[B]

It's. Dude, it's wild over there. It's wild. I mean, and not in the cool way, really.

[A]

Just I'm thinking in my head and I'm war gaming this. That sounds like an interesting way to structure that. But we're talking essentially private. Not. Not private, private, but a standalone.

[B]

It's pretty private.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Like military. It's targeting ability, actionable ability. Okay.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Do you remember? And this would have been. This would have been 2016. 20. This is. I think this is about 2016 in Yemen. A couple of team guys were down in Yemen, got in some trouble. God, what was the one dude's name? He was not a team guy, he was a unit guy. Big handlebar mustache, bald.

[A]

What were they doing down there? So, Michael, what type of trouble do these people get into?

[B]

I'm looking it up right now. I'm gonna. Oh, God. So anyway, that's what these guys got brought in by the royal family.

[A]

The royal family. Sent them to Yemen.

[B]

Sent them to Yemen. Cross border operations, paid everything, get some to go. Literally target and assassinate Yemeni officers and stuff. And they got in a bit of trouble.

[A]

I don't know much about international law.

[B]

As you think it will. Yeah, right. I'm not a. I'm not a scientist.

[A]

I am not a lawyer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got my juris doctorate by watching suits.

[B]

Great show, by the way.

[A]

I found it towards. Did I find it in Covid or right after? Yeah. I think it disturbed my wife how quickly I made it through all eight seasons.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

We originally started. We said we were going to watch it together. That lasted maybe a week.

[B]

So I'm nine episodes in, babe, and I'll catch you up.

[A]

She just was disgusted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I actually was well beyond nine episodes seasons ahead. She would leave, I'd be on the couch, she would come back, back. And I'm sitting there, she's asking me what did I do today. I was like, well, I'm not proud of what I'm about to say to you, but you're looking at it.

[B]

But it's a great. If you're gonna do it, it's that show. That's the show to do it, man.

[A]

I don't think I could watch a Show like that. If I was waiting for the next Wednesday or whatever.

[B]

No, for sure not.

[A]

I. I definitely am more of. Hey, this is a complete series that ran years ago, and there's no more. Giddy up.

[B]

Yes. We're going. We're going. Yeah. Seven hours. Yeah.

[A]

God, that structure, man.

[B]

Yeah. So they were, like, targeting dudes and.

[A]

Like, when you have that much money, I mean, what is there to stop you? That area of the world, I. I have not spent a lot of time in the Emirates or Dubai or Saudi Arabia. I have passed through many times and obviously operated in peripheral areas. But with that level of money, I don't know what stands in your way.

[B]

They really do whatever they want. So part of. Part of what we were doing while we were there is the Emiratis have a base at the old Mogadishu airstrip, and they are working with the current Somali president, governor, whatever they're calling them. And they have at the palace there. They have a presence at the palace, and they sent us over there with the Emiratis. So I went in and out of Mogadishu with nothing on any passport or anything on an Emirati, you know, military flight. And then same in Yemen. Like, we'd go down to Yemen with them and come back, and nothing.

[A]

That level of fluidity with international borders is pretty wild.

[B]

It's. It's wild. It's wild. And then it kind of what ended up finally, like, there were a couple reasons I ended up leaving in 2017.

[A]

Well, before you left, explain the garage.

[B]

Oh, yeah, the garage, dude. The garage.

[A]

I'm telling you, I've heard stories of these legendary rooms that are full of mats, and everybody in there is a black belt.

[B]

Everyone. Yeah. I mean, we're talking, like, 40 black belts. 50 black belts.

[A]

And is it true that they will bring in, like, the world's best and they just stay for a year and teach or.

[B]

I mean, Leandro Low was there all the time.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Cyborg was there all the time. Bueta was there all the time.

[A]

I saw Buecha at Origin camp.

[B]

Yeah, Marcus is a good dude.

[A]

I would have thought his top pressure would have been heavy.

[B]

Oh, you want me to call him real quick?

[A]

No, no, I don't.

[B]

I got his. I got. I. I got his number. I can call him.

[A]

Dude is a gorilla.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

And I asked him. He was talking about. God, I. What I'm about to say will give people insight to my soul, because I'm so deeply appreciative of how he explained this. He was talking about Passing in the way that he passes. And he was talking about one. I was. His English was spectacular.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

He's not always the case when it comes to the Brazilian coaches, but if they. If you can ask him a question and they can move you and touch you. Holy shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's. Your learning goes through the roof. He was talking about passing, and he has. He was talking about all these different ways that he tries to get to essentially one position, which is not on the bottom for clarity.

[B]

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But he basically gets people a little bit oriented on their side, and he's putting pressure into their hip that is up. And he. He was talking, showing how to surf back and forth. And he described it as showing them the keys to a door that they think that they can escape from. And somebody asked him, why don't you just pass? And he said, because first you must break them.

[B]

Yes, First. Yeah. First you must break them.

[A]

So he. I was working with a partner, and he happened to be walking by, and I asked him a question, and so he. They demoed it on me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, they're. This is insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Horrible. Ever to find themselves underneath that, man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're just not getting out. And that's where you live now.

[B]

Ask him about tap. He goes, if you tap them to pressure you touch their soul.

[A]

Yeah. He literally said, I pass after they're broken.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I so deeply appreciate.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I heard you laugh over there.

[B]

Michael.

[A]

Michael's a purple bell. He's. I think you're knocking on the door of your brown belt. Having said that, I'm not a coach.

[B]

And I have no idea how to write it. Never. It'll never feel like it, bro. How long you been a purple belt? About, like, a year and a half, I think.

[A]

I feel like it's longer than that.

[B]

I think so. I don't remember when the. You got another year and a half. Unless you're like, some savant.

[A]

He's not.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're like the inverted savant.

[B]

Yeah. You. Is that what you play? You play a lot of guard? You invert.

[A]

No, no. He's the opposite of a savant. Is what I should have said a.

[B]

He was a. Yes. Emma. Retard.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's your game? Top or bottom? Top. Besides with Andy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was gonna say.

[A]

I don't ever remember you.

[B]

Man. I wish I brought a GI for open mat. My hip's a little messed up, but I'll. I'll roll.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So the rooms are real. People, like, bushesh. Are over There teaching.

[B]

Yep. So I.

[A]

Is it just part of their. Was that more for the Royal Guard people or is that more ingrained in their society? Or like, what is that?

[B]

So Sheikh. Sheikh Tariq. Don't ask me the last name. He came and spent some time in the US in the early 90s in California and got exposed to Jiu Jitsu and started early. Yeah. And started training. And he said, my country needs this. This will change my country. And it did. It did. Because I've seen the different generations now in the uae, in United Arab Emirates, in public schools, police academies and military academies, Jiu Jitsu is required physical fitness. So public schools from like elementary, middle school, high school, several days a week PE physical education class is them going to their mat room, changing into their GI and doing Jiu Jitsu. Every public school has a hired one or two multiple Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Black. Brazilian black belts. Brazilian dudes. They only really hire Brazilians. Brazilian black belts.

[A]

It's kind of racist, but a little bit.

[B]

It's, you know, Is it racist or is it country? I don't know.

[A]

Anyway, yeah, there's something wrong.

[B]

Hey, just go, follow. Right. And you're good. Dude. They don't even know what you're saying. Right. So. Yeah. So Brazilian black belts run the PE at the public schools, at the law enforcement academies and at the military academies.

[A]

Can you imagine that infrastructure here in the US that would be amazing.

[B]

It's crazy because you see the generation before that started to get implemented and horrible work ethic, zero ownership, bad health, overweight, just.

[A]

I'm going to add to that too. As somebody who has not been doing this that long, and my old career was what it was. You're waiting to be a victim.

[B]

Victim, yes. 100. 100. And now to say that.

[A]

But if you cannot protect yourself, you are only not a victim because somebody has chosen not to victimize you.

[B]

That's it. Out of luck. You're, you're a, you're not a participant. You're just like you're viewing your own, your own demise. Right. And then the newer generations that this has been implemented in, they're fitter, they're healthier, they take ownership, they, they, they work harder, better work ethics. It's really changed everything in their society and their culture. So they implemented this in the uae. It's full thing. There's tons and tons and tons of Brazilian black belts in the UAE living there. And in the town that I lived in, there was this one apartment complex, massive apartment complex, tons of people living in it. But it happened to House, like, I don't know, a dozen or more Brazilian black belts. And they just decided to take over a massive section of the underground parking garage.

[A]

I mean, nobody's gonna stop.

[B]

No one's gonna stop. And they matted the whole thing. They matted the whole thing.

[A]

Was it separated by a fence or was it.

[B]

No, nothing. It was just like you literally drive down the ramp and you go, oh, I'm not gonna park there. There's mats and 40 dudes killing each other. Let me back up and go this way. And I'll never forget it. So I was training with Thiago Bravo, my first professor. And I was like a traveling white belt for like seven or eight years. While I was deploying, contracting. I just bring a guy in a black belt. Every team had jiu Jitsu guys. We'd go train down if. Were you ever in the old Baghdad embassy?

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

Which was the palace we converted before they built the new one. I know. So anyway, we had a mat room down in the basement area, the lower level of the old Baghdad embassy. And so we would train jiu jitsu down there and all this stuff. And so I was a traveling white belt for like seven, eight years. So I get out to ue, I meet this guy Thiago. I start training again with him. And it's me. It's like a 230 pound green beret that I work with. And it's like a 220 pound New Zealand SAS dude that I work with. And it's the three of us white belts. Yeah, the three of us white belts with like four or five Brazilian black belts. And that's our training. And just murdered old school Brazilian, like popping elbows like every. You want to learn not to get straight arm barred or shotgun arm barred. Okay, I'm just going to pop your elbow every single day for the next year.

[A]

Like, there are better ways.

[B]

Punished us, like beat us up.

[A]

There's better ways.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How's your body feeling now?

[B]

Yeah, not awesome. Not awesome. Not awesome. Yeah.

[A]

Now we can do better than the garage.

[B]

Yes, exactly. So we were training regularly and I had gotten my blue belt. Thiago gave me my blue belt. I was about a month, two months into my blue belt. And we went and trained after work like we normally do. And it was late at night. It was, I say late at night for us, for Americans, late at night. It was like 8:30. Already ate dinner. I'm putting my son to bed and I get a phone call and it's Thiago. I'm like, hey, everything all right, dude? Poor Grady, man. We're gonna go train the garage, bro. And I've heard about the garage, but just like in like spatterings, right? And I was like, dude, my heart sunk, my stomach. I started getting nervous, like, sweating my face. And my wife's like, what's the matter? Is everything okay? She thinks it's work related. I'm like, betting you're ready to go somewhere. I'm like, tiago just called me. What's the matter? Is everything okay? He just invited me to go train at the garage. She's like, it's 8:30 at night. I was like, I know, but I can't say no. Like, you can't tell your professor they invited you to the garage. Yeah, you're going, you're going. Like, you have to go. She's like, all right, so I'm like, I'm like sick to my stomach, dude. I'm like, I'm like, I'm a grown ass, man. I've been to war. I killed dudes, like, and now I'm nervous about going to train Judiciary. But I'm nervous, nervous. And I go get my GI and I get my truck. And he gives me the address. Don't tell anyone, bro. You don't tell anyone. And I drive over there and I pull up and I don't see his car. And so I just park and I sit and I just sit And I'm late now, and I just sit. I'm like, is he coming? And I see one guy get out who I know that I've trained with a few times. And I'm like, okay, here's my opportunity. I'm gonna jump on it. So I get out, I'm like, george. Hey, George. I remember this guy, George. And I was like, hey. Oh, Greg. What's up, bro? What's up? I was like, man, Thiago told me to come meet him here and train. Is he here? No, no. Yeah, I hear you, man. Come with me, man. You're good, bro. You're good. And I walked down the ramp into this underground garage. And I turned, we turned the corner and sure enough, 1 inch puzzle mats on a concrete floor. Puzzle mats glued onto the concrete walls of the parking garage. And I don't know how many, but a C. I don't want to say 50 black belts because we're not gonna say 50. Yeah, right. We're not using the 50 term.

[A]

50 is a number currently that needs to be used with caution.

[B]

Right, exactly. But it was literally a sea of black belts, probably in a mat room that I would say 2, 000 square feet of mat. Just flow rolling, roughly.

[A]

Probably just flow rolling.

[B]

And they're sitting. So, yes, some are sitting. Some. It's early, right? It just started. So some are sitting, some are rolling, some are drilling. And, dude, when I tell you, like, this was the most nervous I've been in anything ever, like, I'm more nervous than anything I've ever done from a kinetic standpoint. And I'm like, hey, guys. And I'm fresh, bright blue, blue belt. Like, I'm Thiago's student. He told me to come meet him here. And one guy comes up who kind of knows. Oh, Greg, man, come on, let's get changed, bro. Let's roll. Let's roll. And so I get changed, and then Tiago walks in. He comes in late, like, Brazilian style. And when I tell you for the next two hours, I got. There's not even a term to explain what happened to me for the next two hours. There were a few guys there that didn't speak any English at all. Not one word, man. Okay. There were a few guys there that wanted to help me a little bit. Few guys there that would work with me. Few guys there that wanted to make sure that they knew that I knew that they knew that I didn't belong there. And literally, like, a couple guys, I rolled with it. Like, slap them, slap them. Like, literally, as fast as we'd slap and bump, they would sub me with something and hurt me, dude, Hurt me. And like, at one hour, one hour and a half, I ran off the mats, had to throw up in the trash can, rinse my mouth out, come back, I finish it. And when I tell you I look like I've been abused for two hours and just beaten. I was dead, dead, dead. And I've got my GI pants on and my jacket over, tied with my belt over my. And I'm, like, barely coherent. And the guy, a couple of the guys that live in the apartment, go, man. Good training, bro. You come back tomorrow night, bro. Tomorrow night we're gonna train, bro. And I'm like. I'm literally like, okay, yeah, cool. I'll see you here, right? And I walk upstairs and I go into my truck and I get my truck, and I don't even start it. I just sit there and I call my wife, and she's like, hey, how was it? I was like, that was good. I gotta go back tomorrow night. That's like, literally, I remember it probably.

[A]

Just sleep in my car.

[B]

Yeah, I gotta go back tomorrow night. She's like, what do you mean? Well, I finished training, then they said they're training tomorrow night and invited me back. So I gotta go. And like, I don't want to. Like, it was bad. It was not even fun. And I was like, that's a rough room. But if I don't go back tomorrow night, they're gonna think I'm a pussy. And they scared me off and I'll never get invited again If I go back tomorrow night and take another beating for two hours at least they know I've got grit and then I'm good. And so that's what happened. So I literally went home, showered, like, laid in bed, catatonic, you know, and did it the next night. Really? The same thing? No, different. Like, no one was cooler with me. No one was like, oh, you're in. It was like. But after that night, I was in after that night. Even the guys that were dicks to me the first two nights were like, okay, he's Thiago's student. At least he's got grit.

[A]

Like, he's not acting like a.

[B]

He's not acting like a. Welcome back. Yeah, everyone knows I'm a blue belt. Every. You guys are black belts. Like 34, five, six degree black belts. Like, you know I'm a blue belt.

[A]

You know you're gonna moves you have.

[B]

Exactly. You don't know. Dude, I see red, bro.

[A]

You had a lot of stripes, but check out this move.

[B]

That's right. I see red, bro. I see red. And just bodies drop. But yeah, so they know I'm a blue belt. They just wanted to see, like, do I have the mentality to weather the storm. So, yeah, that's my garage story.

[A]

You know what's interesting is talking with Leah and her coach Travis about the introductions to Jiu Jitsu in the earlier days. I'll call that that. And I'm stretching the knowledge of Jiu Jitsu, my personal knowledge of Jiu jitsu in the US but I'll call that probably early 90s into the early aughts. They described it a lot like that. Yeah, your first class, you just got the living. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my coach, Travis, his brother, they went to their first Jiu Jitsu class and that night all they did was stick fight each other. They just beat the out of each other with sticks.

[B]

There are. So I haven't gotten that Jiu Jitsu class yet.

[A]

I mean, there are so few people that would come back for a Second class.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

What you describe is. I understand the. The purpose and the meaning of that and it has utility. But not in a business model.

[B]

No. Not in a business model.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yes. For sure. Not.

[A]

Probably the biggest shift that I've heard people talking about is you have to make it accessible to people because 000 whatever would have that exposure and go let's do this is what I want to do.

[B]

Let's do this again. Now that's the thing. It's like. You know. And from a business model. And that was when I opened up my academy in Louisiana. That was something I really want to focus on. One it always tells us my first priority to Jiu Jitsu is. Is stay true and real to Jiu Jitsu. Yeah. So I'm never going to water Jiu Jitsu down. I'm never going to promote early. I'm never going to give stripes or belts on. Oh you made your 36 class. Here you go. You know.

[A]

Like how do you know when somebody's ready? This is something that's interesting in Jiu Jitsu as well. And I ask. I think I've asked you this as well before. I ask all the black belts that are coaches is walk me through your white to black your criteria. And I'm not asking you this because I have asked you before. What's interesting about it is every time the answers are different.

[B]

Right. So to answer your first question right off the cuff you just know.

[A]

Yeah. Which is not really an answer.

[B]

Right. It's not really an answer. But I remember.

[A]

But I know what you mean.

[B]

I remember asking myself kind of late in my brown. I knew I was getting my black. Right. I knew I was getting my black. And I was already running my academy. Cause my professor had to move away. So I was already running my academy full time. Teaching full time as a brown belt. But he would come down and do all the. All the promotions And I was like how do I know when someone's ready for a degree or a belt? And I got my black belt and then all of a sudden I just knew. I just knew. Like as crazy as it sounds so generally like my. My first stripe on white belts. New white belts come out whether you have grappling experience or not. Like I don't care. You could be a high level wrestler. Right. And you could be beating people with wrestling. You could be beating. I've got one guy at my academy now. He beats blue and purple belts.

[A]

Happens all the time.

[B]

Because he's a savage wrestler.

[A]

Wrestling is real People, wrestling is real. He's never locked horns.

[B]

Exactly. Wrestling is real. And, dude, he gives me a hard round. You know, he gives me a hard round. But I usually don't give a first stripe on the white belt till about four to six months in. And that first stripe is. Have you stood the test of time? Have you bought into this? Are you committed? Are you. Are you consistent? Or are you, like, dabbling once a week, once every two weeks? Are you consistent? You're consistent for four to six months. You're getting a degree because within four to six months, you've got a really good baseline of, like, position base, like you've got a pretty good idea of.

[A]

So you call it degrees. Yeah, because that's dope.

[B]

Is that dope a fourth degree? I don't know if you know this, but what degree? Purple belt. You. Right.

[A]

They stopped doing stripes at the sbg. Is it on a blue belt?

[B]

They do it on blue. Past that, they don't.

[A]

I think I got a few stripes on my white belt. And I don't know your theory on this. People say you should never wash your belt. I don't believe in magic, but I do believe in staff.

[B]

I do believe in staff.

[A]

I've so I belt and the stripes would come off, and I think Travis realized I really don't care, and so he just stopped putting them on. That was the last I got him.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, every. Every coach, every professor, every gym is a little different, so.

[A]

So wash your belts, though.

[B]

Wash your belts, people, please. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. And if your GI starts stinking all the time and is yellow, get rid of it and get a new one. These are perishable items, you know. So at white belt, four to six months in, I'm usually given one stripe. Second stripe is, am I watching you do traditional technical jiu jitsu? So do you understand how to play guard? Closed guard. Do you understand how to play closed guard? I'm not worried about fancy guard. You understand how to play closed guard? Are you attempting to shoot triangles? Are you attempting to shoot arm bars? Do you understand some basic wrestling and takedowns? Do you understand basic passing principles? Oh, you're passing now. Okay, here's your second stripe. 3 and 4 is like that progression from white belt to blue. Like, by the time I'm putting a fourth stripe on your white belt, in my opinion, you're already a blue belt.

[A]

Probational blue belt.

[B]

Yeah, you're a probational blue belt. And let's see how you're rolling with the other blue belt. Right. And then when it comes time, generally speaking with me, depending on your level of athleticism and your level of commitment and your level of, of just capability, actual practical, capable capability, which, let's be.

[A]

Honest, does not apply equally across. It does not as much as people want it to. Let's just be honest, it doesn't. Some people are better at some things than others.

[B]

100%. We're not created equal. And as, as a jiu jitsu, professor, coach, whatever you want to call us, I, I, I don't like being called professor, but it is what it is. I have blue belts that can beat the shit out of other blue belts because they're just physically, but that doesn't mean that for that person and the time that they've put in their technical knowledge and capability, they're not a blue belt. So I try to treat everybody on their own optics. But that also means like you've both been on the same path for a year and a half and I give this person a blue belt and you're not a blue belt yet. I'm sorry, you're not a blue belt yet. Like you don't have the capability, the technical proficiency to be a blue belt yet. So generally with me, you'll see spend about a year and a half to two years at white.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Before your blue belt. Blue belt can vary from two to four years. Right. @ blue belt, I start looking for. Are you playing with I, I what? I, it's not non traditional, but are you expanding from closed guard? Are you moving into some half guard stuff? Are you understanding some, some more. Are you experimenting with some more sport guards? Some Della. Exactly. Some de la hiva, some spider? Are you playing with different passing options? Is your passing a little more dynamic? Are you really seeking out submissions now with people on your level or a little bit lower than you? Are you moving technically to achieve a submission position? A position for submission, Then you start getting your degrees on that same thing. By the time you get a four stripe on your blue belt, you're a purple belt. My metric from there is are you doing rounds with me where I am fighting to sub you a couple times in a round. If I'm, if I'm having a hard time subbing you a couple times in a round, then you're probably a purple belt. If we're getting through a round where I may not sub you, but I've got some attempts, but you're defending them, you're a brown belt. And then if we're rolling and you're you're almost catching me then, or are catching your black belt? That's my metric, you know, that's my metric.

[A]

And I'm pretty interesting how it's different for every.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. And, you know, for, like, every white belt pretty much is gonna get those four stripes from there on out. It's like, it's way less deliberate in the stripes, in the degrees, at blue, purple, and brown. And for that, like, maybe blue somewhat, but then purple and brown. I look at you as a individual, and, like, if you're struggling with something, and I say, hey, Andy, this is what I want you to work on, bro. Right. Right now, you're kind of giving up position because it's easy to roll to your back where you're not driving through, to not get swept or end up on bottom. This is what I want you to work on. If I see you overcome a personal hurdle that you've been struggling with, and you persevere beyond that. Okay, dude, here's a stripe for you. You just leveled up. You just leveled up. And that's what I look at.

[A]

Stripe all the belts all the way up to black.

[B]

No. Yes and no. If they're like, boom. If I see someone like, dude, here's a degree. They do something super impressive, and I'm watching them progress. Here's a degree. But, like, even me, I got four stripes in my white belt. Three on my blue, two on my purple, one or two on my brown, I think, before I got my black belt. But I still spent years at all those belts, you know, and just the stripes. Do you know the deal? As you get further on, you give a white belt a piece of tape on their butt, they're like, this is the most amazing. Like, it doesn't matter how old they are. This is the most amazing thing ever.

[A]

It helps even more. And again, this is my anecdotal experience, watching from a distance. Sometimes adults need those micro rewards. It'll actually keep people coming back because they don't think they're getting any better.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's very easy to do because you're getting smashed.

[B]

That's right. And you're all. The rising tides raises all ships. So all your training partners are getting better too. And you're like, I'm just not. I'm not getting better. Right. And then us as blood black belts, whenever we roll with them, as they're getting better, we're dialing up our rheostat so they never feel like they're getting better. With us, I just lay on People.

[A]

There's only one thing I wish most practitioners would change when they describe Jiu jitsu with people, and that's when they say the white belt is the hardest one to get. Have you ever heard somebody say that?

[B]

I've heard that.

[A]

You know why I don't like it.

[B]

It's very cliche.

[A]

Well, it's not that it's cliche. It leads with this maybe unsaid expectation that if you walk through the door and you get your white belt, it's going to get easier.

[B]

Oh, no, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. It gets harder.

[A]

Yes, that's my point. Is the white belt hard to get? Because you have to kind of take a leap into the unknown and something you might not be comfortable with.

[B]

Sure, yes.

[A]

Is it ever going to get easier? No. So don't set people up for that expectation.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. So I would, I would kind of argue that that little phrase statement with the white belt's not the hardest belt to get. It's maybe the most comfortable, most uncomfortable. That's the most personally uncomfortable, nerve wracking thing to achieve. Walking through that door and getting on the mat for the first time. But dude, I got my black belt and I was like, I need to learn Jiu Jitsu, I need to have a guard.

[A]

I'm still looking for any magic powers that are supposed to.

[B]

I haven't gotten mine either yet, bro. I just got my first degree and I, I want to hear. I, I don't, I haven't gotten like the download. I have. I haven't gotten it.

[A]

I was searching online for the return address because mine has no Harry Potter powers.

[B]

Yeah. Can I send this back? Okay, dude, if I could go back to purple belt. You know what?

[A]

It comes both is a target on.

[B]

Your back, A massive target. And here's the thing about targets, right? Is the target that's on my back. When I especially like going to other gyms, the target that's on my back doesn't say on that target. 46 years old.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Broken neck, broken back, torn LCL. Torn MCL. It says, it says, see how hard you can smash me. And if you can submit me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To the 230 pound wrestler, you know, who's a blue belt. And I'm like 180 pound, 46 year old dude.

[A]

Learn the power of the word no.

[B]

Oh, I do. I, I have now.

[A]

Hey, bro, you want to roll?

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

Thank you though, because I don't want To.

[B]

That's right. Yes, 100%. I have finally learned the power of tomorrow. Yes. And the next.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I finally learned the power of. No.

[A]

A pacing lion looking like their newest meal. And guess what? You win. You're better than me. You're very good looking.

[B]

You're tougher, you're smarter. I'm an idiot. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Why you go back to lawn for of all the things, you know, it seems like you left. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems like you were souring a little bit on how law enforcement was going for you. Interesting that you went back.

[B]

Yes. So I came back and I came back to the States. I was working for a local businessman, billionaire guy locally, long story, so we don't need to get into it. But I basically got hired by him to be his personal bodyguard, head of security, making a ton of money. Ton of money to live in my neighborhood, in my house, his house. And business was 10 minutes from my house. I got to fly in his private jet to the Bahamas and to Vegas and this and that. And I drove $110,000 SUV with every bit of Gucci kit and gear and that I wanted in the back. And you name it, and you'd think, oh, that's the dream. Horrible. It sounds miserable. Miserable. It was the worst thing I'd ever done. I was absolutely miserable. I was drinking a ton. I was not happy. I was not happy with work, I was not happy with myself. And I had. I was gone in the UAE for four years straight. I lived over there for four years straight in Louisiana. Louisiana post has a five year post limit for your law enforcement creds. So I went to a buddy who I know with a smaller department. I said, hey, dude, can I get on with you as a reserve? I want to keep my creds so I can carry guns, do all this stuff. He's like, absolutely. So I got my. All my creds back up to date and. Excuse me. There we go. Got all my creds back up to date. And they're like, hey, do you wanna. Do you wanna like be on the SWAT team? I was like, no, no, I don't. That sounds horrible. Well, how about just come out and train us? I was like, all right, I can do that. So I'd go out and that would be my hours. So rather than like reserves, most reserves go work parades, they work football games.

[A]

What do they call them here, Michael? The posse. Kind of the same thing. Sheriff's posse. Yeah. They're not even actually Badged, though.

[B]

So in Utah, that's a little different. So in Utah too, same thing. We have the pot. We have a posse, which, like if there's a girl missing in the woods.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The posse will go and do the search, get on horseback.

[A]

I think they do that, but they also augment the, the law enforcement as well. But they're not bad.

[B]

So are they armed?

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think. I don't know if there is a reserve program here in Montana, but I feel like. And again, I'm wildly speculating here, I feel like some people will use the posse as their first step towards trying to get those credentials.

[B]

Okay, gotcha.

[A]

For people who don't know a law enforcement credential, it trumps all concealed carry laws in every state.

[B]

So you can carry an all 50 HR218.

[A]

Yeah, well, that's more for people who are retired. You lucky bastard. If you sell your creds.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, so. So the LEOSA act, right? LEOSA Act. The Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act. Yeah.

[A]

And there's. So there's an immense value to actually have having either active or retired police.

[B]

Credits because you can carry a gun anywhere.

[A]

Anywhere.

[B]

Yeah, anywhere. So, yeah. So I got on a reserve, started doing my hours to keep my reserve status was training officers, doing firearms classes, combatives classes, stuff like that, CQB stuff. And I was like, all right, this is cool. And then the sheriff's office, this was for a small department, then the sheriff's office. I knew the commander of the SWAT team and he was like, dude, why don't you leave over there and come over, get your creds with us and we'll, we'll utilize you more. We got bigger budget, we're doing cool stuff. I was like, all right, yeah, that sounds good. So I transitioned over for a smoke from a small police department over the sheriff's office. And then I was like, okay, this is cool. I'm back with the boys. Good team, real progressive leader.

[A]

Don't they have a little bit more authorities as well?

[B]

Massive more authorities with the sheriff's office. Fairly large. A very. It was actually the parish that I worked in was the third largest parish in Louisiana. So massive, massive size demographically, but full time element to the team. Good budget, good leadership, explosive reaching capability, night vision helicopter, the whole nine yards. Yeah. So we had, we had a pretty legit team. So I got on with them, started doing some training. They're like, dude, just, let's just. You need to be on this team.

[A]

Team.

[B]

I Was like, all right, cool. Yeah. So that's why I started doing that again. And then, like, I had some contacts. I reached out to some contacts of mine up at hrt, guys that I knew just from contracting overseas and stuff. And so then my team was going up to Quantico, training with HRT twice a year. HRT was coming down using us and using some of our areas for targets and stuff like that. So we had a pretty. We had a legit. A lot of SWAT teams, especially, like, little podunk areas. It's B.S. it's like collateral duty. It's a Metro thing where there are twos and threes from all these different agencies. And let's be honest, they're not prepped for the job that they're asked to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas some of the bigger teams are actually have. Have legit.

[A]

And for people listening, HRT is essentially, it's the hostage rescue team. I'm going to call it the FBI's SWAT team. Crisis response team.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, obviously FBI has SWAT teams and regional SWAT teams, which are. HRT is like more of a national. It's a small. Yeah. It's a national counter terror and hostage rescue asset. And I mean, I don't know if you've worked with them a bunch peripherally. Okay. Yeah. Pretty impressed. You know, and I've worked with your old organization. I've worked with the unit, and I've worked with the Kriff out of when it was the Kriff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The SIF company. Yeah. Lily Pad wants some. Some attention.

[A]

I'm always down to give attention. Yeah.

[B]

She's such a sweetheart, man.

[A]

They are good judges of character.

[B]

Massive. Massive. I don't know why she likes you, but, you know.

[A]

Well, you can always fool somebody once. Told me twice.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So you're back working with the people you wanted to work with. How does this end up with you with a gun in your mouth? And when did that occur in this story arc?

[B]

Yeah. So I was still. I was going through, you know, a lot of couples. Right. Been married. I've been married now almost 17 years. Right. So, like, a lot of things, you know, marriages have issues. Right. And couples have issues.

[A]

I've never heard that.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Yeah. Honestly, I don't want to say the large majority of it stemmed from me. I want to say all of it was. Stemmed from me. It was all my issues and my fault. I was. I was very, very angry. I did not feel like I was being utilized. I lost my identity. I lost kind of my identity, you know. And even though the SWAT team stuff was cool, it was not satiating what I was doing overseas what I had been doing overseas as a contractor. And now I'm living in this Leave it to beave it neighborhood. Leave it to Beaver neighborhood neighbors. Hey, can I borrow a stick of butter and all this?

[A]

Michael, do you understand the reference of Leave it to Beaver?

[B]

No. No.

[A]

That's why I always ask him.

[B]

No you don't. Are you serious?

[A]

We are the last generation that can use that.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

And only with each other.

[B]

That's right. So haha.

[A]

The number of most time when people bring up movies. I'll ask him. Hey, have you heard of this? You'd be shocked at how uncultured he is.

[B]

How old are you? 25.

[A]

He's 23.

[B]

No, I'm 25. Leave it to Beaver was like classic.

[A]

Black and white TV show.

[B]

Yeah. And like the most killer family. Yeah, yeah. White picket fence like so I didn't have a white picket fence in my house though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I just, I don't know, like I lost my identity, you know and like I wasn't doing cool stuff anymore and I wasn't with a team of super, super high level, high level, you know, individuals. And we weren't going after high level targets and doing a job where like especially when I was working for oga, for the nsa, sorry, other government agency, nsa, National Security Agency, blah blah blah. It was like the stuff we were doing really made a difference. We were collecting intel and feeding you guys targets and feeding task force targets and stuff. And it was like we're doing good stuff, you know, like we're really doing good stuff. So I get home. It all started when I was working that year for that business businessman and I just started falling off the rails. And I was a horrible husband, I was a horrible father. I was very, very removed. I was drinking a ton. I was super, super angry. My wife was like, you probably need to go talk to a shrink. I was like shrinks? I'm not going to see a shrink, I'm fine. Blah blah blah. You know, as I'm ready to flip a table and all that stuff.

[A]

Totally normal.

[B]

Yeah, totally normal. And it all kind of resulted where the, the main catalyst was I was at a family party at my wife's parents at my in laws who have a great relationship. I still do surprisingly after you hear this and probably not. And they were hosting this party for another family and there was a gentleman there who was not acting appropriately with some of the Ladies, two of which happened to be my sister in laws and my brother in laws do not have the capability or capacity to handle it.

[A]

You probably desire, right?

[B]

And I went up and had a few words with him and initially I was very professional and he was not. And that didn't go over well with me. So I literally have him hanging over the second story balcony and I'm gonna drop him on the concrete sidewalk. So far I love this story where, where the party's going on and I more or less get pulled back and now there's three of them against me. And I was not drinking or anything. So I was stone sober. I was getting ready to drive back, I had to drive back to town, take, get the babysitter and take my kids. And I had made the decision, all three of them needed to die, that I was going to be the one to kill them. And I said, look out of respect for you to my wife and your parents, I'm going in the back bedroom and I'm going to set my alarm for 10 minutes. And I had my gun on me and everything, you know, like. And I pulled up my timer on my iPhone. I sat down in the armchair in my, my in law's bedroom, master bedroom. I said, I'm setting my alarm for 10 minutes. Minutes. You have 10 minutes to go out there and explain to these three how dangerous I am. Because in 10 minutes when my alarm goes off, I'm going back out there and if they're still here, I'm gonna kill them, not beat them up, not fight them, I'm just gonna murder them. And I just sat there, literally, just like that.

[A]

How was that message received?

[B]

She went out there. She went out. She, I mean, she knew like that was not the time. She left the room, went out there, came back before the alarm went off, off and said, they're gone, they're not coming back. I said, okay, thank you. I went out very, very quietly, very somberly. I apologized to my in laws, I apologized to my wife. So I'm going to go home and get the kids. And that's essentially what I proceeded to do. And after that everyone was like, you need to go see someone. Because at that moment it felt very logical that that's what should have happened. Like those three should not have lived and I was going to be the one to do it. Obviously now looking back, like may have been a little bit of an overreaction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, that's where I was in my life. So started seeing a shrink. Shrink helped quite a bit.

[A]

Man, or woman.

[B]

Man. Rock star. I still talk to him to this day. Dude is an absolute rock star of a shrink, you know? And he definitely, like, he goes, look, I don't know what you did. I can't put myself in your shoes. He's like, you're a subject matter expert in certain things. You know what? I'm a subject matter expert in the brain. I know how the brain works, right? And I just hit the believe button on him, and he, like, really, really helped me. Took a hiatus from seeing him and kind of went down the rabbit hole again. Had some. Had some marital issues with the wife again. My. All my doing. Like, all my doing. She's a rock star. The only reason I'm even still married is because my wife is a freaking rock star stud. Like, she really is. That's the only reason. It's not my doing, it's her doing. And moved out. Was living in my jiu Jitsu academy. Living in the back. I have, like, a instructor room, sl office with a pullout couch. So I'm living in the. Ma'am here.

[A]

She can go on a sniffari.

[B]

You want to go on a sniffari? She's, like, tilting her head at me. She's very restless today. And so I'm sitting in this back, back bedroom of my jiu Jitsu academy, and I'm just miserable. I'm hating life, and I'm. I'm ruining everyone else's life. It's all me. It's all my fault.

[A]

This is what you're telling yourself?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm ruining my wife's life. I'm being a bad father for my children. I'm not being good for my jiu Jitsu team. I'm not good for my SWAT guys. It's all me. It's just better if I'm not around. Well, what am I gonna go do? So I'm sitting there with my Glock on the table and a bottle of Jameson every night going, this is. Yeah, this is probably the way out. This is the way out. And I come to the determination. Well, I can't kill myself in my jiu Jitsu academy. Me. Because I don't want my team to find me the next morning when they come in for morning class. And then I go, well, I don't want my loved ones to know that I killed myself, that I shot myself in the head. So I'm literally. It was my birthday. It was November 8th. I said that. Now people are going to know my birthday.

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

Yeah, it was November 8th. It was my birthday and I was driving to Camp Beauregard where the US Marshal SOG team operates out of. And I was going to do a ballistic shield demonstration for them. And it was my birthday and I'm driving there and I had not gotten a morning phone call, happy birthday message from my wife or my kids, thinking they were already up. What I didn't realize is they were off of school for vacation, so everyone was sleeping late, but I thought they were up and operating and no one called me. And I'm driving down this one lane each direction, country road with, with 20 foot culverts on each side in the middle of the country farmhouses way, way, way, way, way off pretty fast road. 60, 70 miles an hour, no traffic. And I took my gun out of my IWB waistband in the holster, but put it in my center console so I'm not driving for hours with it. And I look down on, I go, I'm looking around and go, this is the place. Because I can shoot myself while I'm driving, driving 60, 70 miles an hour. I'm not gonna hurt anybody else. I'm not gonna crash into any other traffic. I'm not gonna crash in any houses because of the culverts. And then my wife can just tell everyone I was in a car accident. I'm like, this is the place. This is, this is like, this is the what I'm gonna do. And I reached out and was getting ready, and on my screen, phone starts ringing with a very, very close friend. And I'm like, that's kind of weird. And I put it down and I just fucking lost it, dude. I broke into tears, dude. I like, I mean, like bawling tears, driving. And they're like, what the fuck is going on? And I was like, are you ready? Yeah. I fucking lost it, dude.

[A]

If that call hadn't come in, do you think you would have done it?

[B]

I don't know. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know if I. I've always said suicide's a coward's way out. I've always said suicide's a coward's way out. I've lost more friends probably much like you. I've lost more friends to suicide than I have to. Like, like gunfight, shootings, car crashes, combat related stuff. Yeah. And there was a weird progression where I was like, I don't understand it. Why would you do that? Why would you do that too? I kind of get it to. I see why he did that now. To. I, yeah, I understand it. It'll never be me too. This might be what I need to do to. Yeah, this is the right idea. Right. And, like, how that progression happened, I couldn't even tell you, dude. I couldn't even tell you.

[A]

Well, what was your perspective on time as you were driving towards that decision? Like, when you're driving on the road thinking about taking that action, I'm assuming you're not thinking about a week, a month, a year from now. You're just in the moment.

[B]

I'm just in the moment. In the moment. And you don't. You're not thinking about the repercussions that it has longingly, lastingly, just.

[A]

It's like dropping a rock in the water and just watching the rings.

[B]

Forever.

[A]

Yeah, forever.

[B]

And you didn't think about that. And honestly, I think that moment was probably one of the best things that happened to me because I was so close. I was so on the verge. And when I didn't do it, everything, like a movie, like, everything kind of came back. All that time that you're talking about, like, everything just like swooped back in like, holy shit, my kids, my family, my loved ones, my friends, my gym, my students, this, that, like, what am I doing? Doing. Yeah, you know, and I think drinking probably a handle of Jameson by myself. A week, less than a week, honestly, was probably not that mentally healthy for me.

[A]

You could probably remove. Probably.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. No probably about it. Right.

[A]

It is a central nervous system depressant.

[B]

Massively. Massively, yeah.

[A]

So for a lot of people, it's a social lubricant and they have a little bit of an up. But at massive levels or even for some people, small level, it's a huge driving force.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of the. The people I know that have made the choice to end their life, it was a combination of, I think, the stories they were telling themselves, where they were, they're opting on time.

[B]

But alcohol was almost always absolutely no 100. And you know, for me, a big part of it was I was not living authentically because I. I kept this pretty insulated. A lot of people knew I was struggling. They just thought I was angry. They just thought I was angry. And I kept it pretty inside because I still trained, I still worked out. Like, I didn't get just bleh. You know, I was still on the mats every single day, still teaching, still working out. And I could put on that mask and do that. And then I just tank. So nobody else around me knew what was going on really, other than, oh, Greg's off, Greg's Maybe angry, maybe he's a little depressed, blah, blah, blah. And it was just. It was not good. But that one incident kind of brought it all, I think, to a close. And quite honestly, I can't say that I've never. The thoughts never crossed my mind again, but not in that manner. And we're talking a while ago.

[A]

Yeah. I've never been suicidal. I think about suicide not meaning the action of me killing myself.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The concept of suicide. I think about the concept of suicide. I don't want to say off often, but it's also like, not infrequent.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

Well, I think it's. It's in our. Unfortunately, it's in our lives, it's in our circle, it's in our industry. So, like, how long is it going to go till we hear about one of our buddies has killed themselves from, like right now, today?

[A]

You know, like, probably measured in months, if we're lucky.

[B]

Yes, if we're lucky.

[A]

When I think about it too, I was going to use the term mask as well, because I think that's what it is. I mean, if you're able to. To talk about openly now, that position that you were in, can you even fathom how many people that are out there, surrounded by us, that we are surrounded by in daily life that are still wearing that mask and don't know what to do with it? Well, that's part of the. I think that's part of the reason why I think about it too. It actually, for me, it unwraps. Like when you see people doing stupid shit, one of the first things I ask myself now is I wonder what's actually going on in their life.

[B]

100%. 100%. And I'll tell you. So that day, that was my birthday two years ago, probably until a year ago, I wouldn't have talked about this. I wouldn't have talked about this. I couldn't admit to myself that I was actually gonna do that. I couldn't admit to myself I felt so weak. I literally, like, I'm gonna break down here. Pussy. I know, right? Fucking pussy. Pussy. I couldn't admit to myself that I was gonna do that. Yeah. Because I was like, how cowardice. How weak. Like, what? That's not me. Who am I?

[A]

But that's part of the problem.

[B]

That is part of the problem.

[A]

The way that we talk to ourselves and specifically with that language. One hundred and men, scientifically proven idiots.

[B]

Yes, we're dumb. Ladies are smarter than we are.

[A]

100, slow to mature and seemingly out of the box, largely incapable of asking for help 100%.

[B]

And I remember going into. We had, like, a little half bath. I was back in my house, and I don't think I was living there yet, but I think I was, like, visiting. I was back in my house, and I went into the back little bathroom, and I called up a buddy of mine who has been, like, a big, big help to me. And he had. He had been suicidal for. For a while and had worked through it. And I called him up, and when he picked up and said, hey, dude, what's up? I just. I literally fell on the floor and lost it and started crying, and I couldn't get it out. And I couldn't get out. I was trying. I was like, dude, I was gonna kill myself. And when I admitted it out loud, I, like, lost it. And what I realized is, like, now, like. Like you said, people are wearing a mask. How many other people are out there going, going, why are they. That person used to hang out on the mat after class and sit and BS with us for a while. Why are they just grabbing their stuff and going, what else is underneath there? And now it's like. Like you said, right? Because that's all we think. Like, before I was 40 years old, dude, I didn't cry. I didn't cry. I didn't talk about emotion. I didn't tell my. My friends, my male friends that I love them. That was faggot shit. You know, like, pardon the language, but, like, we didn't do. I didn't do that. The hug was. The hug with the bro pad on the back. It wasn't like, an actual endearing, embracing hug. And that going back to, like, the very beginning when we were talking, is like, are you comfortable in your skin? And I say this very facetiously because we all know really, really tough, bad motherfuckers, right? I don't think I'm one of them.

[A]

Nor do I.

[B]

But at the same point, we know our capability, our skill set, what we've done. Like, when it comes down to it, if you line 10 dudes up like, we're bad motherfuckers, I was just gonna.

[A]

Let you handle it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Michael will get a video camera out. I'll eat snacks.

[B]

There you go. There you go. But you know the reality. When it comes down to it, like, we both know we're capable, tough humans. We are. We are. That is what it is.

[A]

Everybody has their breaking point, though.

[B]

Everybody has their breaking point. And what I've realized is that me being Vulnerable. And my. My therapist said this, without being vulnerable, there's no growth.

[A]

I would agree with that.

[B]

Without being vulnerable, there's no growth. Without being vulnerable of walking into that jiu jitsu academy on day one to get your white belt and being vulnerable, especially as a tough alpha male, then you're not going to grow in jiu jitsu, you know, like, without being vulnerable, asking, hey, tell me about social media and market marketing. I don't know. But that's a vulnerability, right? Being and talking in front of crowds. You do a lot of speaking engagements in front of large crowds. That's a vulnerability. You're being vulnerable.

[A]

It's a vulnerable. But it's a skill.

[B]

But it's a skill.

[A]

Same thing as asking for help or being more communicative or asking questions. You learn how to do it.

[B]

That's right. But you've got to be vulnerable to start gaining that skill and growing.

[A]

That's the first path.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

The first step.

[B]

That's right. And so without being vulnerable and my therapist. Without being vulnerable, there's no grace growth. And I just started to realize, like, being vulnerable, being passionate, being emotional, which in whatever degree you want to. I'm passionate about jiu jitsu and fighting other men, but I'm also passionate about my friends and the people that I love. Right. It doesn't quantify you as a pussy. It doesn't take away kind of the exact opposite. It's the exact opposite. Right. It actually makes you stronger. And, you know, a friend of mine does a lot of speaking. He. He studied for the last 20 years. PTS, depression for. Primarily first responders, not military, because there's a lot of stuff, a lot of programs for the military, but not so much first responders. And so he focuses more on first responders, although. And he does these huge speaking engagements, and he gets in front of this crowd and it's all like big, tough firemen or cops or whatever, and lots of mustaches. Lots of mustaches. And he goes, who here thinks being vulnerable is a sign of weakness? And no one raises their hands. And he goes, see, you're also scared of being vulnerable. None of you will even raise your hands, right? None of you will even raise your hands. Yeah, come on, tell me. And a whole bunch of them raise their hands. All right, good. Who here thinks me being up on this stage speaking in front of 500 of you right now is me being vulnerable? And then they all raise their hands and go, who here thinks I'm weak? And if you think I'm Weak. I'll fucking fight you in the parking lot.

[A]

That's a strong opening to a speech.

[B]

Right? And that's how he opens his speech.

[A]

We call that the hook.

[B]

Right, exactly. And that's how he starts. But it's like. It's true. It doesn't change who we are. It doesn't change my skill set. I can be vulnerable. I can cry with you. I can hug you. I can laugh with you. I can be happy with you, sad with you. I can console you. I can give you a hard time if that's what you need. Tough love. Because that's what we should do as humans, for one. But I think men need that more. Women do that. Yeah, women do that. Kind of almost innately. They're more maternal.

[A]

Yeah. They're largely, obviously not everybody, of course, social.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Speaking of women, how did you tell your wife about that day in the vehicle?

[B]

It was pretty much that same moment that I called my buddy and she was there standing outside the bathroom and. Yeah, that was. That was rough. That was rough.

[A]

How'd she take it?

[B]

Not good. She lost it as well. She lost it as well. She knew. I think she. I mean, she knew very largely that I was trending that way and not well, but she didn't know it. Was that. That difficult? That much? That close.

[A]

So are you guys able to talk about that experience pretty openly now?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So we. We. That's the one good thing, is we're. Our communication is amazing. Our communication has always been really good. And I. I talk about it. If someone wants to talk about it, someone wants to listen, someone has questions. I've got to be a hundred percent transparent now. I've got to be. I can't hide from it. I can't beat around the bush. I've got to be 100 transparent. Because, one, it's good for me and healthy for me. But it may help that person. Yeah, it may help that person. So we talk about it. I still see my therapist. We see my therapist together as well. And people want to talk about it. People ask, hey, ask me questions. Ask away, Ask away. Let's go. You want to dive deep? Let's dive deep, you know? And you want to talk about Jiu Jitsu. Cool. You want to talk about being suicidal, that's cool, too. We can talk about it. So going back to. Am I comfortable in my skin now? Yeah, I'm comfortable. My skin. I'm not. I was embarrassed by it. I was. I was massively embarrassed by it. I'm not embarrassed by it anymore. It's. It's a story that's as old as time with guys like us, dude. It is. Unfortunately. Unfortunately.

[A]

I think one of the most powerful things about being able to talk about it openly is that other people will hear it and they will, for whatever reason, take it as their permission to either say something or do something.

[B]

100% positive direction. 100. And I'll be honest. Like, I think, you know, people always talk about, like, finding your transition and this is, I think, more applicable to military guys. But you don't hear. The lesser one is you don't hear about it with, like, law enforcement and stuff like that. The fact is, like, I'm not the guy anymore. I. The bat signal doesn't go up for me anymore, and I don't rush to a barricaded gunman or a hostage rescue or anything like that.

[A]

Our time of usefulness has passed.

[B]

Which is. That's what I thought. Yeah.

[A]

From the perspective of there's a younger, more capable, more hungry generation, the breach is now theirs for sure.

[B]

100%. Absolutely. And I still want to see the bat signal.

[A]

And I still want to go.

[B]

Me too. But, but me too.

[A]

It's not my time.

[B]

Trust me. This thing in New Orleans.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was, I was getting blown up and all my boys were getting activated to go hunt because they thought there were more there, more guys, and they were all hitting targets around the city. And I was like, you know. But then I thought about putting on a helmet with night vision and battery and counterbalance and like, oh, my neck hurts.

[A]

Yeah, just do that for Halloween with my neck hurts.

[B]

With a fake Airsoft one. Totally. You know, Know. Yeah.

[A]

Empty tube. So it's like looking through empty.

[B]

That's right. Just clear tube. But, you know, I, I think our time for usefulness is actually just beginning.

[A]

I meant from a time.

[B]

No, I, I. And I knew what you mean, but like, like, look at this. Like, how many people is this going to go out to?

[A]

No clue.

[B]

A lot more than me sitting on a SWAT team. Right. You know, it will touch.

[A]

I get emails from people in countries that I have to take some time to find on.

[B]

Yeah, it's aer. What aure.

[A]

There's some stands for sure. Use caution whenever you're in a country that ends with Stan people. No, but it's wild. You upload to the Internet and what a weird and unbelievable world that we live in that somebody somewhere, for whatever reason, could randomly find something. I have a folder on my laptop now that has about a dozen emails in it from people who said they didn't kill themselves because of something they heard on the podcast.

[B]

Yeah, and that's amazing. That's amazing because you're touching people that you would otherwise have no ability to touch.

[A]

I think more often than not, it wasn't me saying anything. It was the guest.

[B]

Yeah, but you're the catalyst.

[A]

It was the medium.

[B]

For sure, it's the medium. You're the catalyst in the room.

[A]

But I think it was somebody else sharing about their own personal struggles.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think the biggest lie we tell ourselves is that we're alone and nobody.

[B]

Else would understand 100%. And we're not.

[A]

We're not everybody out there. I equate it to you're looking at the top of a river that looks like it's not moving, but a couple inches underneath, you have no eye. And that's the same thing of people as well. They put the mask on and like, cool. They're here, they're doing their thing. Maybe a little bit off, maybe not, but underneath, they're almost getting pulled under. And you'd never know, right? They're not gonna tell you.

[B]

No, they're not gonna tell you. And like, for me, you know, now, like. And this is kind of sounds again, super cliche, but, like, my purpose or my enjoyment, what now satiates me and gives me the drive to do this every day is just being able to try to help give people the catalyst to make themselves better, period. And if that's mentally, emotionally, physically, be a better husband, be a better father, be a better wife, be a better mother. Like, I want people to pursue personal excellence. And it's not some life coachy bullshit. Like, it's stuff that I usually honestly just share with my team on the mats. If I have the opportunity to be on a podcast or do stuff on the Fieldcraft channel or whatnot, it's like, I just wanna be authentic. I don't want to manufacture what I'm doing, what I'm saying. I wanna be authentic. This is my daily life. This is how I live. This is what I do. And if it helps you, cool. And if it doesn't help you, cool as well. If you think I'm some, like, corporate shill, cool. If you think I'm. If you think I'm some deep state CIA implant, like, okay, cool. These are all the comments that I see. But, like, my goal is to, like, try to touch people. If there's one person listening to this going, fuck, maybe I will call my buddy and ask him for help. Yeah, like, that's It.

[A]

Or maybe call your buddy and ask him if they're okay.

[B]

Or maybe call your buddy and ask them if they're okay. Absolutely. And a text. Don't do it on a text, folks. Call em, Let em hear your voice. Use their name. Use their name. Call em. You know, like they've got to. And so for me like that was, that's the main thing now. The main thing now is like let's talk about it. Cool. What do you wanna talk about? Yep, Roger that. Let's go.

[A]

Yeah. What's next for you professionally?

[B]

So living in Utah now. Been running the Jiu Jitsu program for, for Fuelcraft.

[A]

Have you converted to Mormonism yet?

[B]

Not yet.

[A]

Give it time.

[B]

I've been trying to convince my wife for I've been trying to convince my wife to take on extra wise, but she's not down with it. No.

[A]

Mormons are some of the nicest people that I've ever met.

[B]

Absolutely, absolutely. They drink a lot of soda.

[A]

There are some weird workarounds that they use. Yes, whatever.

[B]

They drink a lot of soda. Live your life.

[A]

I have any caffeine, but you can have some soda.

[B]

Caffeinated soda. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again like you said, live your life. I don't care if you're not pushing, try to push stuff on me or change my life, then cool. We're all different. And that's okay. That's okay. And that's actually good. So yeah, moving into 20, 25, you know, obviously, dude, I like my life now. I train jiu Jitsu every day, I work out every day. I'm generally, usually pretty physically healthy. You know, I feel I'm in still pretty good shape. So I can do that. I'm really, really enjoying being a dad now. Really? I never really enjoyed being a dad, honestly when I, when the kids were younger.

[A]

It gets better when they're older.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Favorite examples was when both of my sons came up to me and said, hey dad, can we get dirt bikes?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I said, go say that in front of your mother. So they don't think or she doesn't think that it was my idea.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then we went and got dirt bikes.

[B]

Yes. Nice. Yeah, so yeah, same thing. So like this season, this season, once it starts warming up, my son and my. We're gonna start riding dirt bikes together.

[A]

About four months from now.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Once it starts warming up. But like the videos I showed you of my kids shooting, like they both got their own pistols for their birthdays. I've got them full gunfighter belts, proper holsters, mag pouches, dump pouches. So they've got all the gear, all the kit they need, getting them to teach them some of that stuff. Obviously they're on the match. They've both been trained since they were five years old. My son's 13 now and the only thing that's keeping all the other adult males safe is that he's only 95 pounds. God help everybody when he puts another 25, 30 pounds of muscle on the.

[A]

Weight and the man.

[B]

Yeah, it's gonna be bad for everyone. Cause you gotta watch this kid move. And he plays lasso guard and swings oma platas on dudes and like he's got a great wrestling and take like you watch him move and you're like, good lord, he moves like a frickin black belk. He's been training and competing for eight years.

[A]

He found his motor patterns on the bats.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. And then my daughter who's 10, she's been training since she was 5. She's the mean one. She's the mean one for sure. Yeah, she's the mean one. But I'm really enjoying that. My wife, I just promoted my wife to brown belt belt. She's a little savage. So I'm really enjoying Jiu Jitsu. You know, Jiu Jitsu programs growing. I am moving up in the field craft thing. Like obviously I've been working kind of as a 2 IC to to Mike at the time. And I'm moving up, taking over more and doing more of the stuff on, on YouTube and on that is. Which is not exactly what I want to be doing. I don't want to have any sort of like notoriety.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if I can get stories out and information out to people, I think that's huge.

[A]

Well, messages have to be delivered by somebody.

[B]

That's right. That's right. And I'd rather be delivered. Not that I'm the end all, be all or the expert really of anything, but there's a lot of clowns out there that are delivering messages that they shouldn't be.

[A]

Yeah, I would agree with that for sure. So people can probably expect to see more of you consumer facing field craft style. What are your goals for 2025? I'm not a huge New Year's Eve resolution person.

[B]

I'm not either.

[A]

But I do try to look at, I mean at least chunk it out like Q1 and 2 and then maybe Q3 and 4 or a year. Yeah, we got, got anything on your major goals for 25?

[B]

So from like a non like personal excellence goal. I want to get my IFR rating done and completed. So I'm single engine complex and high performance endorsed.

[A]

Sweet.

[B]

On a single engine vfr, which is visual flight rules.

[A]

How often do you flight fly?

[B]

Well now, not very often with the winter and stuff.

[A]

So I'll give you. I'm not an expert in aviation by any stretch, but I. When I got my reading, I watched two different approaches. Both were successful. One took substantially longer.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If you're going to go down that path, try to get it done in 60 days. Commit yourself to just like, just bang it out as many times per week.

[B]

So let me ask you this.

[A]

Well, because I saw the other avenue where somebody would come in once a week, right. And IFR is very knowledge based and then practical based. They would spend 80% of their time trying to remember what they learned previous lesson. So they. Yes, they still will get their rating, but I would rather get it in two months versus eight. That'll save you time, it'll save you money all.

[B]

Absolutely. When I was doing my VFR just for my private license, I flew two to three times a week. Yeah. Because I feel like just like with Jiu jitsu.

[A]

Yeah, it's currency.

[B]

It's currency. It's recency, you know, and if I did miss a week, I'd come back and be like, oh, what was my glide slope on that?

[A]

What was that seat? Just doesn't feel the same.

[B]

It does. Yeah, it doesn't feel the same. Yeah. And like, did I forget something? You're like, you're, you're like. You find like the first five, 10 minutes, you're like gripping it like crazy and it's like, okay, relax. What about the schools that bang it out in like 8 days, 10 days? What do you think about that approach?

[A]

They are offering instrument ratings in eight days.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I would have to look into that. That is.

[B]

I know a couple people have done it. You go away, you stay. You literally spend time, all day for that day for like 8, 10 days. Simulator, plane foggles, IFR approaches, departures, stuff like that.

[A]

Knowledge test is robust.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not that smart, dude.

[A]

I'm an idiot.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

Trust me, I'm the dumbest person of any room I go into, which is why I had to dedicate. I just kept going and going and going.

[B]

Would you. Do you remember what you got on your private pilot license? Oh, God, that was a long time.

[A]

No, I got my private license in 2000, 2006.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I barely passed. I got like a C Plus, I.

[A]

Mean, it's passing though.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's. I guess it would be possible, I would worry that they might meet the crit because what's going to happen is they're going to just front load you with information.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they're going to. My suspicion is this, with no experience with this whatsoever, is they know what you're going to get tested on. So they're going to teach you the. To the test, which doesn't teach you.

[B]

Real life for sure.

[A]

Flying, you're going to get that through experience. So I would say it is possible to do it in eight days. I would use that with extreme caution.

[B]

Yeah. And that's kind of my thing because I think there's like, there's the whole like, oh, you've got your qualified, you're certified, but you don't have the experience to actually back that certification qualification up.

[A]

Whereas it just means you have a license to kill yourself.

[B]

That's right. Every airplane, 100%.

[A]

You can now go kill yourself. Hopefully not others.

[B]

Yes. And every airplane will end up back on the ground.

[A]

That is correct.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, at some point in time.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah. So like for a personal goal, I want to get my IFR done. I saw you're flying helicopters now, which is super cool. I did about five lessons in helicopters.

[A]

Very different than fixed wing.

[B]

Very different than fixed wing. It was before I did fixed wing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which probably not ideal. I think now flying fixed wing, I.

[A]

Think it would be easier to get your license, fixed wing and take your knowledge tests there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because then you can focus on just helicopters and helicopter systems.

[B]

Yes, I agree with that. And when I was flying, he made me have a number two pencil woven between my fingers so I didn't over grip and I could not hover for. Dude.

[A]

It's not hard, but it's not easy.

[B]

It's definitely not easy.

[A]

You know, it reminded me of a new technique in Jiu jitsu where at first you're like, this is trash, this will never work. And then one day you go, oh, I got it.

[B]

It clicks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And then you don't have a problem with it.

[B]

Yeah. So that's super cool. I'm enjoying watching your journey on that, man.

[A]

That path to getting to that click can be a little dodgy.

[B]

Yes, for sure. Especially in helicopters because helicopters will also always end up on the air.

[A]

What goes up must come down.

[B]

Yes, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. I guess. Unless you put it into orbit. Right.

[A]

I mean, it's going to come down somewhere. I feel like in another maybe solar system somewhere, something's going to grab a horn of that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. So, yeah. So, you know, just keep training. Honestly for me, staying healthy at 46, you know, now, like injuries, it's almost.

[A]

All the front optic of everything you're thinking about. It changes the way that I train, the way that like I'm gonna go to open out of this and have. I will do my best to have the lightest, most technical roles because I have another podcast later today.

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

And I want to train tomorrow and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Yeah. And same thing. I want to be on the mats every single day and that maybe I feel good. Hey, we're training hard today. Tomorrow's a light day. Tomorrow I'm only coaching and, and watching and I've just, I've got it. We've got a. To maintain our body and our bodies have not been super. We've not been super kind to our bodies.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it has done well given what I've asked of it.

[B]

Yes. 100. And I'm also, I also kind of completely agree with your assessment of when I come through the finish line, I want my tires being held on by bubble gum and duct tape and like.

[A]

I'm just like barely gonna cross the finish line.

[B]

Let's go. Like, let's go. So I'm not gonna stop pushing. You know, I'm doing cool things with Greg Anderson. We run the Guns and geese program. We've got one going on this year which is quite honestly one of the most cathartic things I've ever done. Yeah. Can, you know, igniting reigniting fires under people, teaching people how they can become a better version of themselves, all that stuff. And it's all. I know this all sounds like woo woo health life coaching bs, but it's not. It's just people being real and genuine and trying to give their experience to other people. Yeah. You know, keep being a good father, try to be a good husband. I'm pretty difficult to deal with sometimes.

[A]

I've been told that about myself. I feel like I'm the most normal person I know.

[B]

Me too, dude. I'm the easiest person to get along with. Just ask me. Yeah, right. Obviously spend a lot of time with Lily Pad. That chick makes me super, super happy. The, the she. The reason I got her was on my journey of, of kind of. Of rehealing myself mentally, emotionally. I was still kind of falling off and I got, I got connected with a, a canine service group that does that and I got placed with her and dude, she's been rad. She's just.

[A]

She's awesome.

[B]

She's so sweet and so loving and like, she makes me. She holds me accountable too, because if I want to like, be depressed one day, she's literally like stomping on my chest, like dropping the ball, dropping the kong. Like, let's go.

[A]

Yeah, you don't have a choice.

[B]

Yeah, you don't have a choice because if you don't, then she's like destroying sh. So I like it. Yeah.

[A]

What do you want to close out with, man? We've been on for a couple hours.

[B]

Yeah, dude, awesome. Awesome. Coming up here. Obviously we've. We've hung out quite a bit and stuff. The. The coffee shop looks rad. The. The. The podcast. Dude, it's nice to finally meet Michael or Michelle. Michelle, right? With the, with the, with the finger up. Yeah, whatever works.

[A]

They have a very fluid look going on right now. Curly, disheveled hair, hipster glasses.

[B]

The. The roll on the pants. Yeah, you know, know, whatever. I too am wearing origin blue jeans. Yeah, there you go. That Lily tore a hole in. I got an air vent in it now.

[A]

We have been finding two little incisor size holes in a lot of things at our house.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Is javelin getting into stuff?

[A]

Yes. And it's. You just take it up to him and hold his mouth open and measure like. Yep.

[B]

Oh. Oh, that checks out. We. So we. We should start a show with javelin and Lily in a. Would be Javelin and the fur missile.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it. It goes. It goes. Everyone loves Lily. Everyone always wants to see Lily. I always have her. Have her with me when I'm doing stuff over in Utah. But yeah, no, like, just be better. 20, 25. I agree with you. I don't believe in New Year's resolutions. I don't believe in these six minute abs. I don't believe in these fad diets. Start small.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Do the 1% better every single day. Become a better version of yourself and just be nice. Look, on the flight out here, I was surprised. On the flight out here, the guy next to me, all the overhead compartments were full and the guy couldn't fit one of his bags underneath the seat. The guy sitting behind us was like, hey, mine's open. Just pass it to me. I'll put it under there. He probably stole a bunch of shit out of there, but maybe took it out.

[A]

Heart was in the right place.

[B]

Exactly. Another guy, his phone was about to die and he needed a charger and someone was like, he's like, hey, Excuse me, do you have a charger I can borrow? And this woman was like, yeah, no problem. Here you go.

[A]

I was like, hey, that's the way.

[B]

It'S supposed to be. Just be nice. Let's take care of each other. Other. And then the whole counteracting of that is, if you're not being nice, we should be able to punch you in the mouth.

[A]

God, I think our world would be a better place if that was accepted.

[B]

You've heard my punch in the mouth license theory, have you?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, I haven't told you this. I've got the way to solve world, like, solve world peace and society. What?

[A]

Physical consequences in the moment.

[B]

Physical consequences. So every state, pretty much, you can go get a concealed carry permit. Yeah, Right.

[A]

Some harder than others.

[B]

Some harder than others. But you, you basically take a little test, right? You do a little background check, you shoot a little pew, pew. And now the state deems you ominous Dominus. You're of sound body and mind to carry a firearm, to defend yourself or others from grave bodily injury or death.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Right. They do the same thing now, but they issue a punch in the mouth license. So you do your background check, you do a little course, maybe a psyche value, and you still. Here's your punch in the mouth card, which I'm deeming you of sound body of mind to go issue out physical violence to those that need it. To those that need it. It could be a little old lady that's being a complete bitch and an asshole to people and go, ma'am, Just a little pop. I don't know. You're right. It could be a big dude, sir. Wham. Right? Yeah, that'll fix things. Because people be standing in line at the grocery store getting ready to get uppity, and they'll go, oh, the consequences are real. Who's got a punch in the mouth card here? I don't want to get hit. Boom. That's it. TM Greg Lapin. That's what we're gonna start. 20, 25 Trump. You heard it here. Let's go.

[A]

Perfect ending.

[B]

That's it.

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