Episode 372 - Seth Gehle

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cleared Hot - Episode 372 with Seth Gehle

Introduction

In Episode 372 of Cleared Hot, host Andy Stumpf engages in a deep and emotionally charged conversation with Seth Gehle, an 82nd Airborne Combat Veteran, construction business professional, ultra-marathon runner, author, speaker, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) practitioner. Seth shares his harrowing journey of overcoming childhood trauma, sexual abuse, and personal struggles to emerge as a resilient individual committed to helping others through his book, Strength Beyond the Shadows.

Seth’s Early Life and Abuse

Seth begins by recounting his tumultuous childhood in Lima, Ohio. At the age of two, his father violently attacked his mother, leaving her to raise Seth and his two sisters alone. This early exposure to violence set the foundation for Seth's later struggles.

At [75:50], Seth describes a critical incident at age five when he discovered his mother's collection of pornographic materials. Instead of protecting him, his mother encouraged him to watch, leading to his first encounter with sexual content without understanding its implications. This lack of appropriate guidance contributed to Seth’s confusion and distress.

Turning Point: Reporting the Abuser

By age ten, Seth had been sexually abused by a teenage babysitter, a traumatic experience he eventually reported to his grandparents. Despite his attempts to seek help, the system failed to protect him adequately, a reality Seth highlights to emphasize the pervasive nature of abuse and the shortcomings in support systems.

At [60:02], Seth shares startling statistics: "One in three girls will be sexually abused before they're 18. One in four boys, one in ten will report. So for every one, there's nine others that haven't said anything."

Healing and Resilience: Writing the Book

Seth's journey towards healing began with his decision to write Strength Beyond the Shadows. Initially self-publishing, he faced significant challenges, including dissatisfaction with ghostwriting services that failed to capture his authentic voice.

At [21:36], Seth reflects on his writing process: "I sat down and pumped out, like, 20,000 words over the course of a month or two. It just flowed because I'm a good storyteller."

Through mentorship and resilience, Seth overcame his skepticism about self-publishing and refined his narrative to authentically convey his experiences. His book aims to provide a path to hope and healing for others facing similar adversities.

Interactions with Influential Figures

Throughout the episode, Seth references influential individuals like Nick Lavery, a retired Special Forces officer, who played a pivotal role in mentoring him during his healing process. Additionally, Seth shares the powerful story of Clark Fredericks, a victim of long-term abuse who took drastic actions against his abuser, highlighting the complexities of trauma and vengeance.

At [29:45], Seth recounts a conversation with Nick Lavery: "Nick is mutually beneficial. He wants. I think he sees the value in me. And then obviously he knows his own value, but I see the value in him."

Views on Therapy and Support Systems

Seth discusses his skepticism towards traditional therapy, citing barriers like cost and accessibility. Instead, he found solace in self-help books by Dr. Bruce Perry, which provided him with the framework to understand and process his trauma.

At [162:06], Seth explains: "I joined the Reserves as a mechanic, thinking that I was, like, an infantry killer because I thought that everybody was... I'm like, yeah. And so I was in the Reserves from... I ended up going active duty, signed an 18x contract."

He emphasizes the importance of personal agency in overcoming trauma, advocating for proactive measures and self-empowerment rather than solely relying on external help.

Insights on Trauma and Society

Seth provides a critical analysis of societal perceptions of trauma, particularly the stigmatization of victims and survivors. He challenges the notion that sharing one's traumatic experiences is purely for shock value, arguing instead that it serves as a catalyst for personal and communal healing.

At [24:19], Seth states: "That doesn't mean it can't have impact on their life. So, yeah, they may not. They read the book, right."

He also touches on the prevalence of child sexual abuse by individuals in positions of authority, emphasizing the need for systemic change to protect vulnerable children.

Conclusion and Takeaways

Seth concludes the episode by reflecting on his transformation from a traumatized child to a resilient adult who channels his experiences into positive actions. His message centers on the power of personal choice, resilience, and the importance of sharing one's story to foster healing and support for others.

At [186:17], Seth encapsulates his philosophy: "You control what you can control... The only thing you control is what you do, what your own actions, your own thoughts."

Notable Quotes

• [00:32] Host (B): "Today's episode is not a feel good episode. This is a heavy topic. It's a dark topic, and it's real."

• [05:24] Seth (A): "I can't give you anything else. I don't know what to do with this."

• [13:52] Seth (A): "It just flowed because I'm a good storyteller."

• [21:36] Seth (A): "Everybody's seeing me for who I am now, and they're like, damn, how do you do this without falling apart."

• [24:19] Seth (A): "They may not care about you, but there might be something in there that speaks to them that can change the trajectory of their life."

• [60:02] Seth (A): "One in three girls will be sexually abused before they're 18. One in four boys, one in ten will report."

• [162:06] Seth (A): "I joined the Reserves as a mechanic, thinking that I was, like, an infantry killer because I thought that everybody was... I'm like, yeah."

• [24:19] Seth (A): "They may not. They read the book, right."

• [177:35] Seth (A): "I offer a podcast with a big platform."

• [186:17] Seth (A): "You control what you can control... The only thing you control is what you do, what your own actions, your own thoughts."

Final Thoughts

Episode 372 of Cleared Hot offers a raw and unfiltered glimpse into Seth Gehle's life, marked by profound trauma and remarkable resilience. Through his candid storytelling, Seth not only sheds light on the pervasive issue of childhood abuse but also provides a roadmap for personal healing and empowerment. His unwavering commitment to overcoming adversity serves as an inspiration for listeners grappling with their own struggles, reinforcing the message that resilience and proactive choices can pave the way to a fulfilling life despite past hardships.

Connecting with Seth Gehle

• Book: Strength Beyond the Shadows available on Amazon and SethGehle.com
• Social Media: Seth is active across all major platforms under the name Seth Gehle. Listeners can reach out via his website or social media channels for signed copies of his book and further engagement.

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Note: The timestamps referenced correspond to the provided transcript segments and may slightly vary depending on the actual podcast audio alignment.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. Welcome back. I'm gonna open right up with this. Today's episode is not a feel good episode. This is a heavy topic. It's a dark topic, and it's real. It is more pervasive than I think a lot of people would care to even imagine. We're going to be talking about abuse, specifically sexual abuse of a young man. But having said that, what Seth. My guest today is Seth Gill. What he has been able to do with that and how he has been able to shape his life through what happened to him, I think is an incredible thing. So like I said, the guest today is Seth Gill. He wrote this book, Strength beyond the Shadows. Now, seth himself is 82nd Airborne Combat Vet, worked in the construction business, an ultra marathon runner. He's an author, obviously speaker now BJJ practitioner. Amazing things. I am not even going to attempt to describe what he has lived through because he gets into it in a level of detail that might make some listeners uncomfortable. My recommendation to you is to stay the course, to listen, to learn. And I honestly think that in somebody telling a story like this, there are warning signs for those of us out there who would step in if they could figure out a way to stop this from happening, whether it's just a conversation, asking somebody the right question, recognizing the warning signs, whether they're physical, emotional, psychological, I think it's possible. I don't think it's possible that we could stop it, but I think there are ways that people who are paying attention to this type of predation can step in and do something. So that's what we're going to get into on today's episode. If you follow the podcast, you know that I work with some advertisers. Please stay with me for the six next 60 to 90 seconds and let me pay the bills so I can continue to bring you this podcast for free. Let's dive into today's sponsor, ladies and Gentlemen, today's sponsor is Montana Knife Company. Now I've hosted their founder twice. Josh Smith, youngest master bladesmith in the US Right overachiever. What an. They are just down the road from where I'm sitting right now. I think it's. I don't know, call it 110 miles. I know it's more than 90, but I think it's less than 120. Frenchtown, Montana and they're actually moving and building a massive facility on the western edge of Missoula. Their knives are made in America, obviously. Montana Knife Company. The roots of the business, the. The roots of the founder are here in Montana. But this is a national and I'd say at this point a global brand. I love these knives. Check this thing out. This is the mini Speedgoat. This thing sits in the office. It is my absolute go to. I have one in my fanny pack. This is one of their tactical versions along the Goat series as well. That thing is amazing. But they offer more than these two knives, so I'm going to go over real fast. For those of you watching on video, we're going to take a look at their website. They have the Magnacut Speed Gut 2.0. They have a skinning specific knife. Not that you couldn't use it for other things, but that's its design. They have some apparel. They have this lighter. Look at all these knives. Now you'll notice that a lot of these they are saying out of stock or coming soon. Holy cow. They have way more apparel than I actually thought. Here. The list of all of their blades, it's pretty expansive. What they actually have to offer. I just. Man, what a missed opportunity too. I just bought one of their technical jackets. Really cool outer layer that said Montana Knife Company on it. Missed opportunity to not be doing an ad read for them while wearing that thing. American made knives. This company is badass. I know quite a few people who actually work for this organization. He's hiring people, as many as he can. As he continues to expand, he's bringing more jobs to the, I'll call it the greater Missoula area now because Frenchtown is on the western side of that. Go to montanaknifecompany.com and check out what they have to offer. What I'm gonna tell you is this. It's hard to get one of their knives. Supply is not keeping up with demand, which is a great thing for his business. I know that they are ordering and trying to keep up with that, but they order steel like a year to two years Ahead of time. So it is what it. If you can get one, absolutely get one. My ask to you would be is this. And I actually this when I bought the jacket. At the end of that, in their purchasing portal, they're going to ask you, how did you find out about Montana Knife Company? Do me a favor and put down Andy Stump for cleared hot. That's what I did. I said that I brought myself to their website. Call that strategery montanaknifecompany.com let's get back to the show. Okay, got the red smoke.

[A]

Sun runs north or south? West of the smoke. West of the smoke.

[B]

Okay, copy. West of the smoke.

[A]

Smoke. I'm looking at danger close now.

[B]

Come on with it, baby. Give it to me.

[A]

I need it.

[B]

You're cleared hot campaign. Cleared hot. Yeah. There you go.

[A]

I have no nails. I have a bad habit of biting them. So I was trying to let them grow back. And then I went to Jiu Jitsu and I didn't want to be that guy.

[B]

Yep. Yeah, it's a tough balance. I used to bite my nails pretty badly as well. And then to stop that, you have to let them grow out. But if you let them grow out, your training partners don't like you very much on the mats.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I actually have come home looking as if I had been attacked by a cat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't feel it in the moment, but I tell you what, when I hopped in the shower, yeah, it was. I'm not a religious man, but it was probably as close to a religious experience like. Yeah, I also had that when we switched, when the gym got the new mats, they had the rough tatami finish and I didn't feel it at the time. And it had abraded almost all of the skin on my face. That was a fun one to hop under there.

[A]

The show. Yeah. I get a lot of that in my face just from. I'm a pressure passer. And so all I do is just like head constantly. And so I just get a lot of the ghee rubbing on the face.

[B]

How long you been training?

[A]

Two years now.

[B]

Sweet. So blue belt? Yeah, the old blue belch.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Did you find it came with any magical powers?

[A]

Jiu jitsu? No.

[B]

The blue belt?

[A]

No, no. Fuck, no. No. I was promoted way too soon.

[B]

Did you have a wrestling background or a graphic? I mean, that's what's going to happen.

[A]

I know. Well, the thing that. See, everybody says that. It's funny you say that because as soon as soon as I start rolling Somebody, they go, you're a wrestler, aren't you? I'm like, yeah. And then.

[B]

But that's a good thing.

[A]

I know. Yeah, I know. But here's the thing is I was a dog wrestler.

[B]

Doesn't matter.

[A]

I see that.

[B]

So here's the thing. And this is from somebody who never wrestled.

[A]

I.

[B]

You can instantly feel it when somebody comes from a grappling background. Yeah, grappling is grappling, Right. People want to pretend like Jiu Jitsu is completely unique and standalone. It's. I don't think there's. I don't know. At some point in time, people were creating unique things. It's an amalgamation of a lot of stuff, in my opinion, which counts for absolutely nothing. But it's a. At least when I ask people if they wrestle, it's a compliment because their ability to apply pressure and take away space. Yeah, you don't know how to do that if you don't wrestle. The difference between somebody who is, even your words, not mine, a dog shit wrestler, the difference between that and somebody who doesn't wrestle is unbelievable.

[A]

Right. So, yeah, sometimes I feel like. Not that, I mean, you know, it's my fucking ego. But not that it matters, but like when you get that little win and maybe in practice or in competition, it's like, oh, he's a wrestler. And it's like, motherfucker, I, I'm. I won because I trained you so well.

[B]

Wrestling will work up until a certain. In my experience, up until a certain belt or knowledge level, and then it will still be effective. It will be less effective.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let me ask you this. Is your top game better than your bottom game?

[A]

Certainly.

[B]

Why are you playing top then?

[A]

Well, well, so a couple reasons. Sometimes.

[B]

Because you can win. That's the reason?

[A]

Well, no, the main reason. Okay. The main reason, because I go back and forth on this because I'm like, I do. So I pull guard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'll play guard against somebody that I can effectively play guard against where I'm like, learning. But like, when I go against these black. We have a lot of black belts in our gym and I love rolling with them because they just me down. And if I play guard against them, I mean, first off, my guard is fucking heroic. It's so fucking bad, it's not even funny.

[B]

Well, a really good way to keep it that way is to not practice it.

[A]

I know, but I put. So, so let me answer your question. I played top because I was trying to do like. I was trying to learn a bunch of shit at one Time and now all I do is the same shit until I get. Until I get it down. And once I get that down, then I'll start fucking around with other shit. You know, like over, under, passing is like my thing. And so that's all I do. And I'll just do it over and over and over again, no matter how many times I get stuffed or whatever. And versatilely, when I go against somebody who's either my belt level, like, I don't ever stand up with blue belt, really. Honestly. Brown belts and below, I don't stand up with them because I'm going to take them down. I'm going to be on top and we're just going to. I'm just going to pressure this guy.

[B]

Why don't you just start on the bottom?

[A]

I do, I do, I do. With, with.

[B]

How about with everybody because of the.

[A]

Because the black being on the bottom of them. It's not fucking fun.

[B]

It's not supposed to be fun, but that's where you learn.

[A]

My guard is. It goes from open guard to bottom mount. Like, that's, that's.

[B]

Fuck. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's like. And people are like, oh, yeah. You know.

[B]

Do you know how you fix that play guard? Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I was going to give you shit because I heard you say you're a guard puller.

[B]

So I don't pull guard. I am larger than most people in the gym. I will start seated and give them the top position.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. That's. That's.

[B]

When I started Jiu Jitsu, I didn't have a grappling background whatsoever. I asked my now wife, Leah, who was my first coach. I said, please just teach me from the worst positions. Forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is going to be Mount Bottom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or argument can be made that belly down is probably worse than Mount Bottom. Depends on the person's skill set. I didn't have any offense for probably two years. And I'm not joking. I would lay on my side, I would go to Turtle.

[A]

Yeah. And people would tell me, guard game is going to Turtle.

[B]

People would tell me, you are the most boring role ever. You can't do anything, but I can't do anything to you. But that's not learning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But by learning the defense in those positions, I didn't really mind being experimental and trying something new because what's the worst thing that's going to happen? I'm going to end up back where I feel comfortable. The problem right now. And again, I don't know your game at all. We've known each other for 15 minutes. But I bet the problem is right now, your most comfortable position is top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you. If that's where you demand that you stay or you're unwilling to experiment with. Because of the consequences of ending up on the bottom, in my opinion, and I'm not a coach, I think that that limits you.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

So I would. My advice to you, if you were at the gym and you had a wrestling background, would be like, one that's awesome. It's not a negative thing. But I would catch up the defense to the offense you already have, and then you're going to be well, more. Much more well rounded.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I play the. The. I do play guard. I do. But I just. I don't want to get.

[B]

Is you play guard against people you can beat.

[A]

Not be. Be effective with. Be. Be effective. At least maintain some resemblance of, like, I look like I know how to do jiu jitsu.

[B]

You're blue belt, man. Yeah, It's. You're learning, right?

[A]

I know. I guess I just have a. You know, I want to play top against the people that I know I'm not gonna be able to crush because I know I can make progress there. And I don't want to, like, lose my top game in the midst of building.

[B]

Do you really think that's going to happen?

[A]

No, man. I'm just making fucking excuses.

[B]

100% correct.

[A]

You're poking holes in it, and we can run in a circle all day long. But. No, I'm just kidding.

[B]

And it. Well, it's also. It's your game to play, and it's your. And it's your trajectory. But I tell you what, I have seen a few people who grapple who came from a wrestling background, and their success early was unbelievable. And they were a nightmare for people, right? But then they hit a glass wall that they couldn't find their way around, and more often than not, they didn't come back.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Then there's the other side of that. Some people. We have an electrician friend, Michael, that I will use as an example of this, who completely embraced the fact that his top game far exceeded his defensive game and committed to it. The dude is a nightmare. Not because he was a wrestler, because he's really good at Jiu jitsu and he's a blue belt. So the experience you have, whether you were a shitty wrestler or a really good one, it's not gonna fail you and it's not gonna go anywhere.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It just sucks to lose, man.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

And that is. I was having this conversation, a buddy of mine. One of the things I dislike about people talking about jiu jitsu is they say, well, the white belt's the hardest one to get, and it's not right. It might be the most or the largest mental hurdle you have to cross to try something new. But who? Anybody who thinks you throw a white belt on and then it's easy after that. Now you're setting yourself up for failure. It's hard and it gets harder, and I haven't found a belt yet where it gets easier. But I'm telling you, if you can catch your bottom game up to your top game, you will be an absolute nightmare.

[A]

I'll do that.

[B]

I don't think you will, but, I mean, it's good advice either way.

[A]

I will. I will.

[B]

How's it feel to be an author, man? Published author. Ten years ago, if I'd have asked you to write down 100 things on a piece of paper, do you think author would have been one?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yep. I've always known I was going to write a book.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I've always known I was going to tell a story. Tell my story. Right? So, I mean, when I was. There's a specific day, there's two. There's two days. There's two moments in my life where I knew I would do what I'm doing now. And one of my was 10 years old. One of them, I was about 12, 13 years old. When I was 10 years old, there was a specific dad come home, and there was some shit going on, and I just. I knew that I would write a book one day. That was the day I was like, I'm going to write my. I'm going to write a book. I'm going to tell my story.

[B]

At 10 years old, you were talking.

[A]

To yourself like that 1%. Yeah, awesome. I remember. And I was talking about this with. With, actually Nick the other day was I didn't have role models in my life. I had examples of what I didn't want to be. And so when I came home, I saw that and like, no shit. Like, this is like when Dare program was like, big, like the don't do drugs kind of shit. And really what happened was I came home, I was going upstairs. I turned to my right and in the living room, my mom was at least with my older sister. I don't remember if my younger sister was in there, but my older sister wouldn't have been older than 11. And she's in there with maybe five, six, seven, eight guys, and they're all passing a blunt around the living room smoking weed. And when I saw that, I was like, okay, I'm going to. This is not going to be me. Like, I will. I will not. I will not take that path in life. I thought I would be an Ohio State running back. That did not pan out, but nonetheless, I remember going in my room and just being like. Like, one of these days I'm going to tell this fucking story and I'm going to change the world. Like, I just had this, like, deep, like, belief in my bones that I was going to do something impressive. And I know that sounds maybe hokey, but, like, that's really how I felt. A few years later, I came across a YouTube video of Eric Thomas. He's a motivational speaker and one of his, if not the most famous speech he's ever given. He's like, number one in the world right now. One of the most famous speeches he's ever given was when you want to. When you want to succeed as you want to, as bad as you want to breathe, then you'll be successful. And he talks about. He had met this guru, and this guru's like, you know, if you want to be successful, meet me on the beach. And so he meets him out there on the beach at 4am and he takes him out of the water and he holds him underwater, you know, and he begins to tell him, like, like, what are we doing out here? Like, I'm swimming. Like, I want to be. I want to be successful. I want to be a millionaire. And the guy. That's when the guy tells him, you know, he's like, when you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, that's when you'll be successful. And he goes into this, like, the way he tells the story is just fucking epic. And I remember being there, like 13 years old, because then Eric goes watching YouTube. Oh, yeah. How old are you? 30.

[B]

Okay, so you. Do you remember life before the Internet?

[A]

A little bit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I usually would say that I am probably the last generation that I distinctly remember life before the Internet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And after your age group, like my children. My oldest is 21. Has no recollection of life before devices like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Your age group is likely the last one that has a hazy recollection.

[A]

Yeah. Of pre.

[B]

End of the world anxiety rectangle that follows us everywhere.

[A]

Right, right. Yeah. The one that's vibrating in my. Anyways, what was the guy's name? Eric Thomas.

[B]

Will you pull up his YouTube channel? Michael. I Just want to see what it looks like. I want to see what this guy looks like.

[A]

He's fucking electric.

[B]

Do you remember how you found him?

[A]

I don't, I have no idea. It just, I mean I might have been watching Sport Highlights.

[B]

Probably it was a suggestion or something.

[A]

Yeah. You know, because he does a lot of speaking for sports and things and, and if you watch the video like you can, you're like, God damn, like you ready to run through a damn wall. And so I, I just want to.

[B]

See what this guy looks like.

[A]

Yeah, he, he's from Detroit, Michigan. Yeah, this computer does weird stuff if you, a lot of people don't recognize the name, but once you, once you hear him, you're like, oh, I know this speech. I've seen this, I've heard this. But he's incredible, man.

[B]

And I'm PhD, critically critically acclaimed author. World round, hit the more button if you would. Michael up PhD is a critically acclaimed author, world renowned speaker, educator and pastor ET as he is better known as taking the world by storm. His creative style and high energy messages. So there's booking, contact information. Okay, cool. All right. I can't say I've ever heard of the guy and that's why I wanted Michael to pull him up and he's. How long has he been at this, do you think?

[A]

Well, that was, I mean that's 18 years ago. Yeah. So probably as long as I've been alive. Close to it. Cool. Yeah, I know he was like relatively new when that, when that happened. And one of the things he talks about, like, I don't know if it's in that speech or a different one, but, but he started talking about his life and how he was homeless, he didn't have a father and like he had all these things that were against him and, but he wanted to be successful and like he wouldn't go let anything stop him. And so I, I, when I saw him do that, I was like, oh, like this guy fucking gets it. And then I was like, I'm going to be a motivational speaker one day. Like I'm going to travel, I'm going to speak, I'm going to share my story and I'm going to change the fucking world. And sure shit, 30 years later, you know, 2024 is the best year of my life. Wrote a fucking book. I have been all over the country sharing my story, speaking.

[B]

Has it increased since your book came out? Well, actually didn't this just come out?

[A]

It just published December 2nd.

[B]

We'll give it a little bit More time to seep before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll ask you in a year from now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My suspicion is, and I've seen this a lot in people in the public speaking ecosystem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For whatever reason, good book, bad book, it is something that, it's an additional draw. And for people that I've talked to, the addition of a book will definitely, not, definitely can and most often does increase your awareness and therefore your chance to get in front of people and tell your message.

[A]

To me, it's a, it's a tool. Like, I, I, it's funny. I, I talked to Nick Labor.

[B]

Did you know his Boston accent is fake?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Fully aware.

[B]

He puts so much effort into pretending like he's from the East Coast.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He's from Florida.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know if any of that's true, but I enjoy making. He's also an absolute tank.

[A]

Well, he was also only 5, 8, and then he got, then he got a. Yeah. Bio leg.

[B]

A bionic leg.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Anybody.

[A]

Six, four.

[B]

If you get your leg blown off.

[A]

And, and in addition to that, if you didn't have to, like, if, if I only had one leg, I would be significantly bigger everywhere else. Like, my muscle mass would just, you.

[B]

Know, we were at a, we were in Iowa, and he was the keynote speaker at a speech, and I had never heard him speak publicly. And he was talking about getting shot in the face by an ak. And I am sitting there listening and just thinking to myself, I am such a bitch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the getting shot by the AK in the face was just the preamble to all the other stuff that happened to him. And I literally left that, that speech. I mean, we'll give him a big hug. And I gave him a New York Yankees baseball hat because. Yeah, why not twist the knife when you get the opportunity?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just left thinking, man, we walk among just absolute legends.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

Just legends.

[A]

Dude, I give him so much fricking credit, man. I did.

[B]

I'm not qualified to serve him breakfast. He is on a different level, man.

[A]

Yeah, I did want to talk a little shit about him and we got that out of the way. But I really. Dude, he is fucking incredible. And I say that because. So when I, when I, when I started writing the book, like the end of 2023, that was your process.

[B]

How'd you do it?

[A]

Self published.

[B]

But no, I mean, did you do. And I asked this of anybody who writes, just out of curiosity. Yeah, just had a word goal for yourself. Did you write only when you were inspired. If you were Inspired. Would you write as much as you want? Just curious. Your process.

[A]

Yeah, good question. So it's kind of funny. I started writing. I started writing it because I had won this, like, national award in construction. And so then when I won that.

[B]

Award, I was type of construction.

[A]

Residential.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, like, building. Yeah. Yep, yep. I won the. I was the chairman award for the national association of Home Builders, which is their, like, biggest award or whatever. Went out to Vegas, got that shit. And when I got that, I was like, okay, I think it's time to write the book now. And so, because it's just you, everybody goes through bullshit in life. But, like, like, the homeless guy underneath the bridge, he probably has some great advice of what to do or what not to do in life, but unfortunately, he's not living a very inspiring life. Therefore, people don't go to him for advice. Once I started to accomplish things, I was like, okay, like, I think I can. I think I can. I can do this now. And so that's. That's kind of what started it. But I sat down and I just started. I didn't have a word goal. I didn't have a page count because I had no idea. Like, you can't Google, like, how many words go on a page. So I didn't. I didn't.

[B]

You can. Let's just say the answers will vary exactly.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So I was like, get everything from 5 to 500.

[A]

Exactly. So I was just kind of like, fuck it, it's my story. I'm just going to tell it from start to finish and see what happens. And I sat down, pumped out, like, 20,000 words over the course of a month or two.

[B]

Did it come out of you pretty easy?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. When you're telling your own story and I'm naturally, I. I'd say a good storyteller. Yeah, it just. I just. It just flowed. And then the. The hard part for me is I have so many stories that are just crazy, is you have to pick which ones you want to tell. And that's where. Even on a podcast or writing a book or even delivering a speech, when people hear my story, it's, like, truly unbelievable. And that's just only what I can tell you in 200 pages, you know? So nonetheless, started writing the book, got 20,000 words in, and then I was like, what the fuck? I don't know what the fuck to do. I'm out of words. Like, I don't even know where to go with this. Like, does it matter? I wrote. I wrote it three times and deleted it really. Yeah, I was like. I told myself, I was like, nobody gives a fuck. Like, it's not going to matter. It's not going to make a difference.

[B]

That's really encouraging positive self talk.

[A]

Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I. But that's what people do, you know, it's the same thing with. With maybe even you or any other. Anybody else. Like, we have these limiting thoughts or beliefs. And so that's just what I'm like, yeah, nobody gives a fuck about my story. And truth be told, nobody really does.

[B]

But here's where I've landed on that. Nobody may give a fuck about your personal story.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That doesn't mean it can't have impact on their life. So, yeah, they may not. They read the book, right. And for people who are visual only, it's on the table. It's called Strength beyond the Shadows. They may at the end of the day not care about you, but there might be something in there that speaks to them that can change the trajectory of their life.

[A]

Right? And so that's funny you say that because I think it was talking to Nick where he had said, yeah, like, your story is not. It's not about. Your story, is not what's going to. When you tell your story. It's not all about you. It's putting that person inside your shoes or finding something. Like there's something in that crowd that somebody's going to pick up that you've said that they're going to be like, damn. Like, I get that. I relate to that and that inspires me and, you know, some form or fashion. So nonetheless, I just deleted it, kept rewriting it. I knew I was going to. I was like, finally committed. And I was like, all right, fuck it, I'm actually going to do it this time. Wrote it the third time, got 20,000 words in and started looking around like, how do I publish a book? And unfortunately, when you Google that, there's like nothing but scams and bullshit.

[B]

And it's the same thing as when you Google how many words to a page.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

You're going to get. And that way, the worst part is then you click on one of those links and you're just down the rabbit hole even deeper, dude.

[A]

And. And that's what I was. I almost bit on like six of them because I'm like. I'm like borderline retarded. So, like, fucking. I'm on these. I'm on these fucking things. And they're like, yeah, we'll help you get on Amazon publishing this, and it's this much money and you get these many sales and guaranteed this and that. I'm like, how the fuck are you guaranteeing any of this shit? Like, it don't make any sense. So I ended up finding this lady. She. This is a great story for anybody who wants to write a book. Um, she's like, yeah, we can do this one or two ways. You know, I can either ghostwriter for you or I can edit it and do all the proofreading and all that. And I said, well, I can't come up with anything else. Well, how's the ghost writing work? And I'm not a literary genius, so, like, I don't even know how to fucking write, so, like, why don't you just take this for me? And so she's like, okay. She takes the first ghost writing bite, and it was total dog shit. And because she's trying to write in.

[B]

My voice, you know, we should add to this. So I'm gonna read the subtext on this. Cause we'll get into it. Your book is about something pretty particular. And when you say. When I hear you say her first swing at ghostwriting sucked. Allow me to read the subtext. Overcoming a childhood of trauma, neglect, and sexual abuse. I don't know how you could write that without experiencing it.

[A]

Yes, agree.

[B]

She tried to eat a whale front to back in one bite.

[A]

I agree. But I'll put this on her and, I mean, I'll own the fuck up. But she, she. Because I asked her that, I was like, how do you write? How do you ghost write a memoir? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me. And she's like, well, you know, you just tell me your story and then I'll just put it into a story. And I was like, all right. And so we tried it, and it just, you know, she was trying to write in my voice. I cuss a lot. I have a very abrasive, like, approach to things. I'm very just, like, rough and tough and whatever. And it just didn't work. And, you know, she overcharged me a ton of money. Like $8,000.

[B]

Do you pay that up front?

[A]

Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah. You pay to get the receipt, right? So she does the work, you pay it, she sends it to you. So basically, yes.

[B]

Do you get edits involved in that ak, or is this like, hey, finish product in.

[A]

That was basically from what. What she sent me. I could tell wasn't gonna. I was like, no, this ain't it like this. And it's funny. There's, like, a good little story I tell with that is. Is don't let other people tell your story. Like, go and tell your story. If you're gonna write a book, write the book. Like, don't let somebody else put the pen on the paper because you're. You. You're not gonna appreciate it as much when you do the actual work. Like, I can go buy my black belt on Amazon, which I did and I have in my house.

[B]

Well, get a spare, too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So one is none, two is one.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Travel belt.

[A]

Yeah. My. My kids, like, all my, like, gold trophies that are in there. Like, they know that dad was a savage at one point, and whether it's true or not, it's in there. So I say all that Amazon is real. Exactly. So. So, like, people, anybody can publish a book. You can go on AI and say, create. Pump this out. And so I say all that to say, write your story. Be authentic and. And. And do the work, because you're going to be so much more proud of it. And when I. And. And so after that lady offered me Chick Fil a service and gave me Waffle House product or. Well, not product. It was. It was. It was Waffle House service. I don't mean to talk about Waffle House in that way, but, you know.

[B]

We don't have them out here.

[A]

Okay, well, Waffle House is good. Service is shitty, but, you know, you go for the experience nonetheless.

[B]

I mean, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. Very, very.

[A]

That's breakfast food. You can't really it up. I mean, that is 100.

[B]

Not true.

[A]

It's eggs and hash browns. That's all I eat.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's hard to that up. Eggs.

[B]

Oh, it's very easy to mess that up. All right, I'll point you towards the example of my middle son, who one day put four eggs on the stovetop and then decided to take a shower. Yeah, those eggs sucked.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

They were like hockey pucks.

[A]

Disregard. Bad, bad example. Anyways, like, a month or two later, you know, whatever you want to call it, some sort of luck, I ended up at a Brothers Keepers Veterans foundation gala or. Yeah, gala. And Nick is speaking. I had already read his book, but, you know, didn't. Didn't have any idea of who he was or. Really.

[B]

It's a good book. It's over there somewhere on the shelf.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not one of the things people can't see. I keep a copy of all the authors that have come through.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

His Book is very good.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So. So I. Yeah, he's got a lot of good talking points in there. So I read his book, objective Secure and frickin go to the gala, see him speak, he's doing a signing thing. And so at the end, you know, I got my five minutes to talk with Nick and I said, hey man, this is a story I love as well as I said, I approach his big ass and I'm like, hey, I'm writing a book. And I'm also trying to get into the public speaking realm. Like, what do I. Like what's. Do you have any advice? Like, how did you do your book? Because I knew the book that I had at that moment, that lady was like, yeah, this is good to go. The lady that I was working with, and I was just like, this ain't it, you know? In fact, she told me to take out a lot of the shit that's in the book now.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, she said I was telling too many stories, it was too detailed, too graphic. And when I tell my story, I tell it for a reason. I you. It's very raw and forthcoming because of the nature. And it gets whitewashed so much that people don't realize like how bad it is and what people are going through. And it's. It's fucking horrendous. And my book is. It is graphic, but it's. I mean, I hold back, you know, I still hold back.

[B]

I think it needs to be to land in the way that I suspect that you want it to land.

[A]

Exactly. There is. So there's two ways you look at the graph. So some people. And it's the way you tell the story too. Okay. If I sit here and I tell you this horrific childhood abuse story with a smile on my face, it's fucking weird. And like, comes off as like shock value. Like, I want people to be shocked that I went through this shit versus I want people to understand. Like. So when you tell it. And this is what. This is the art of storytelling. For example, I had a lady talking to me one time and she was telling me about all this shit she went through as a kid. And the whole time she's telling it, she's smiling. And so it's like off pudding for the crowd. Because it's like, are you like proud of this or like, what the. Are you getting off on this or.

[B]

Are you completely broken and you have no emotional range because of it?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's weird because it's almost like a God. What do they call those white masks? Michael The. That the anonymous people use. It's a specific Fox. Guy Fog.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just that. You know what I mean? Completely. Not that I'm not making a reference to Guy Fox. It's just. It's a mask with no effect whatsoever. So it throws people off because they don't know how to read it.

[A]

It makes it hard to relate to the story, you know? So when I tell my story, like, there are parts where it's deep and it's heavy, and there's a way to tell that part of the story, and then there are parts where maybe we can laugh or whatever the fuck, you know? And so anyways, I approached Nick and I said, hey, man, you know, I'm writing a book, and. And what do I do? And it's funny, the first thing he said to me, which I give him. I love. I love this about him, is because I think he took a step back and was like, okay, this guy's serious. He's not bullshitting me. And he said, it's fucking hard. Like, just. He said, it's fucking hard. I'm just gonna tell you that it's a grind and it's hard. And I said, yeah, Roger that. I love that. Because so many people, you tell them you're gonna go do something, they're like, yeah, man, that's amazing. Like, you'll be the next big thing. And it's like, you go start a podcast, you go to write a book, you go, whatever, start a business. And they're like, hey, man, good job. You got it yout're gonna. You're gonna crush it. And they don't realize, like, no, no, it's fucking hard. Like, you're going to be working your ass off if you want this thing to be successful. And that's what Nick said to me, gives me his card, and he's like, hey, shoot me an email. Let's get on a call. People do that all the time, you know, I mean, in the last year, the amount of people that have said, whatever you need, Seth, I got you. And, you know, you don't get a response whenever you reach out. And so because it's their tool to.

[B]

End the conversation, they'll give you the card. Hit me up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they're on to the next. If you think about it, it's actually. It's not. It's not the way that I believe people should conduct themselves, but it's the most efficient way to exit a conversation and move on to something you probably think is more important.

[A]

That's Nothing.

[B]

I'm not saying anything about you. I'm saying those people suck.

[A]

Well, so I'll look at. So, I mean, I'm glad you said that. I never thought about that. And that really helps me process that now. But one of the things I started kind of reframing that approach or what people do is because I have so many people that say, hey, Seth, let's get on a call. I'm like, before I even get on a call with them, like, what do you have to offer? Let's just be up front. Do you have anything to offer? Because people say that all the time, whatever you need, I'm here for you. People tell me that all the time. I don't know what I need. Why don't you tell me what you offer? Okay. Andy, you offer a podcast with a big platform. Okay. That is something that I could use.

[B]

I offer Michael.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Michael's services.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So. So that's, you know, and as he.

[B]

Sits over there, he's like, yes, yes. Shakes his head.

[A]

Yeah. So there's, you know, if somebody comes to me now, I'm just like, what? What are you offering? I understand that you, you. Whatever I need, but what are you offering? So that's kind of how I look at it now, because I know with my story and support is great, but if you don't have anything legitimate, you know, people just want to get on a call and just talk. I'm like, dude, what are we doing? You know?

[B]

So I hate to say what I'm about to say because it doesn't apply to everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it applies to more people than I wish that it did. In my experience, when they say those things and they want to get on a call, it's a fishing expedition for them more than it is one for you. They are trying to not figure out what they have to offer you. They are trying to figure out what they can get from you in a.

[A]

Bad way, you think, or selfishly or mutually beneficial.

[B]

I am trying not to be pessimistic in my answer. I don't know if people intentionally are doing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Knowingly and willingly. But my needle trends in that direction.

[A]

Right. Yeah. That's kind of where I understand that, too. And that's. Recently, I've cut those conversations off because I'm just like, I know it's not going to go anywhere. And that's why I'm just upfront on the email or the text or I'm like, what do you need? Like, what can we do if there's an. If there's an end goal, then let's. Sure, let's talk about it. But if there's not, I'm sorry. Like, it's. You're a time vampire, and right now, I don't have the time.

[B]

One of the most powerful tools that I learned, and I unfortunately learned way too late in life, was the ability and comfortableness to say no.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Subtraction is way more powerful than addition. I get a volume of emails every day, and some of them are like yours, where you reached out and I, you know, I read your email. I'm like, this is a topic that I don't know much about. And I know that the story is going to probably be hard for people to listen to because it's not a topic that is talked about much, which lends itself to. It needs to be talked about even more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Because if you hide things in the shadow, nobody sees them. But I get, you know, there are PR agencies that will reach out. Hey, have you. It's so at this point, I can now actually even recognize the brand because they'll say, oh, I really. I love the conversation that you had with these next two guests and your ability to. I'm like, oh, my God, you guys are just cutting and pasting. And sometimes they actually do forget to cut and paste. And so it's addressed to somebody else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those go straight into the delete.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'd say nine out of ten things that are presented to me, I look at it from the exact same perspective.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Time. Do I a. Do I want to do this? And that doesn't have anything to do with money. And I am not a wealthy person by any stretch of the imagination. I like money as much as everybody else. I like nice things like everybody else does. I just don't have a lot of it. Maybe one day in my life, I'm on a mission to one day have money. I'll let you know when I get there. Yeah. People think because you own a business, you're just printing money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And sometimes you are, and then you're putting it right back in the business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But so it has nothing to do with the money. Time is the most valuable thing that I have. My kids are getting older. I want to spend time with them before they completely get out of the nest. I enjoy spending time with my wife. Is what you're presenting to me interesting enough that it has equal value to those things?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nine out of ten times it's no.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's hard to say when you first start because you think nobody's ever going to ask again.

[A]

That. And you're so desperate for, like.

[B]

They don't know that, though.

[A]

I. Well, don't know that. Right, right, right. That's one of the things that Nick told me, too. He's. He's like, so. So let me. So. So Nick gives me his card and like, I said, you know, I've been all these people. So I go home and I'm like. And I remember talking to my wife. I'm like, holy fuck. Like, he told me to give him a call, you know, and so I fucking emailed Nick and he fucking fires back. I'm like, okay. Holy shit. And then me and Nick go on a call for like an hour, and I asked him all these questions about books and this and that and all the questions. Right. And one of the things Nick told me was, you know, don't be desperate. You know, your story doesn't apply to everybody. I don't. He doesn't even know who I am or what it was about yet. But he's just like, you know, you're going to want to take every opportunity that comes your way, and some of them are just not for you. So just be able to say no, walk away from it.

[B]

It's advice from a man who has gone down the wrong path a few times.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's better to be on a freeway than a cul de sac, let me tell you. Yeah, you get farther down the road.

[A]

Yeah. So. So. And talking to Nick, I. I just started playing follow the leader. I mean, I literally went back, looked at his shit from two, three years ago, and just everything he's doing, I just started plugging away. And it's just a. I just had a call with a buddy last week who's asking me all the same questions that I was asking Nick. And it felt so good to be in that position, to be like, oh, let me fucking tell you what you need to do. And it's gonna be fucking hard. It's not like this, like fucking candy canes and fucking gumdrops everywhere. So. But it's. It's awesome. And my buddy actually said something really powerful and profound. I was like, I'm going to steal this. I'm not going to give you any credit for it. But I loved. It was. You know, he's like, everybody's quitting when shit gets hard. And like. Like, when it gets hard, like, that's the reason you fudgeing quit. Like, are you serious? Like, that's. That. It just Got hard. And so you just gave up. It's like, if. If it's hard, like, you're likely in this. In the exact position that you need to be in or that you should be in to make progress, you know? And I was like, bro, that was incredible.

[B]

And, yeah, if it's difficult, you're probably. You're probably mining the right dirt.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. You know, so. So. So I. That was how I got. Nick used a. Like a consulting company essentially, to help him with his book. And that's what I use. I reached out to those people, and that was February of last year. I only had 20,000 words at the time, and I knew I needed to have a final manuscript to send to them. And so I sat down and, like, over the course of, like, three days, pumped out 40,000 more words.

[B]

Was that what you landed at? About 60,000.

[A]

60,000 ish. Yeah.

[B]

With that net 200 pages, you said.

[A]

To 25 with, like, everything in their acknowledgments and all that, but the full story is like, 200. But, yeah. So long story short, started my book, pumped out 20,000 words, and then like, a month later, I sat down and over the course of, like, three days, knocked out 60,000 words or 40. 40,000 words. And I. You know, that was easy because it's a memoir. I'm just telling my story. If you're writing some, like, developmental, like, jocko type, you know, where there's some maybe brain power involved in that. Yeah, you might need a little bit of framework and things like that. But, you know, when you're writing a book, just get it on paper first and sort out all the details and the bullshit on the back end. And that's where so many people, you know, the. What do they call it? Paralysis analysis. Paralysis. Or they're got chapters and this and that, and then they're like, ah, it. I give up. You know, Vers. Just get it on the paper and then. And then go from there. And that's what I did. So I met with that company in February. They told me I'd be lucky to get it done in 20, 24. And I was like, all right, let's go, baby.

[B]

It just takes a while.

[A]

They got to.

[B]

You got to. If it's anything like my experience that they got to do, like a grammar pass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Editing pass. They got to design it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get it time somewhere to be print. I mean, there's a lot that goes into it. You don't hit send on an email and your book comes out the next day right.

[A]

And I see I did because I'm so, like, I'm. I'm so crazy. They would, you know, I'm like, what do you mean? Because they're like, well, you know, when we do our first edits, it'll come back to you and it'll take two weeks. And so I'm like, well, it also.

[B]

Has to physically be printed.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, they would. They would send me back my book and they'd say, hey, go over these edits, you know, read it all through and let us know what you think. And so I. They would say, get it back to us within two weeks. I'd return it in like two days because. And I would just stay up until like 3:00 in the morning just because I had already invested so much money into it last year that I did not want it to carry into this year. I wanted to be, you know, benefiting off of the book instead of continuing. And. And I want to, you know, I wanted to push it. I wanted to push the day. I wanted to, you know, I didn't want to be like, dragging it down the road, you know. And so that book that I had when I met Nick, which I thought was a fucking great book, even though I knew there was like, something not right about it compared to what I have now, like the first draft versus the final, it's like, oh, my God, that book was dog shit. And now what I have, I'm actually very proud of. And my favorite compliments. I love when somebody tells me that my story has changed their life or it's helped them and all those things. Like, those are incredible comments. I get those all the time. But when somebody tells me like, this is very well written, I'm like, yeah.

[B]

If you read it now, are there still some small changes that you would like to make along the way?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I have a book that's coming out in January of 2026, and I. It's with the person writing the forward right now, and I'm getting the blurbs and finishing it up. And it's. It sucks because every time that I go back through it, like, I've read through it so many times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I've. I've handed it off to the publisher and they asked me to make changes to two chapters, which was super frustrating when I got that feedback because I was in this. I was like, this book, I don't know if you guys know this. I'm a pretty big deal. This is the next great American novel. And the guy was like, hey, These two chapters are good, but you should change them. I'm like, you should go yourself. And, you know, I didn't say that.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

Because they're actually professionals.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I worked really hard on those two chapters, but every single time I sit in front of it, as I'm reading it through, I'm like, maybe I should put a. The. You know, I just. I don't think it'll ever get to that place where I could go from top to tail, and it's just not going to be able to be changed, which sucks, because you'll spend the rest of your life looking at it.

[A]

Yeah. And dude, that. That. Dude, I was literally a fucking week away from publishing my book, and I was like. I was like, hold on. I almost. I was about to reach out. Pause. I want to change a couple of things.

[B]

Some point you got to put it in the oven, man.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Let the motherfucker cook, dude. It's not going to be perfect. There's gonna be stories that you put in and that you leave out and different examples here and there. And, you know, my final draft. That's why you write a second book.

[B]

My final draft is due mid Feb. Yeah. And, I mean, I'm almost done. I'm literally at this point. Is it the. And, like taking the small stuff out and waiting for the forward and the. And the blurbs for the people that I asked for. But, yeah, it's gonna be tough when you gotta put that thing in the oven and just let it go, because I know there will always be something I would wanna add or change.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I have the same thing. There's different lessons. There's. I've learned so much over this last year in regards to trauma and things like that that I wish I would have known 12 months ago where I could have put it. And there's family members that I've reached out, that have reached out to me. There's people that have reached out to me about my book, about certain details of it, and they're like, hey, did you know this happened? And I'm like, are you fucking serious?

[B]

Like, you said, book two.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, so. Yeah, man, it's.

[B]

Well, let's get into it.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Where I'll let you enter into the story how you want. I mean, you can talk about it from, you know, the environment that you grew up in. I mean, obviously you knew from a young age that you were going to write it at some point in time. We got to dig into the why, you know, the what is sitting right here in front of us. I'll let you enter into the story however you want, man.

[A]

Yeah. So a couple things before I get into the story. One, for the people that are listening. I hate the word triggered, you know, but. Because it can be. It can whatever. But if you are somebody who's listens and. And you do get triggered or you do get emotional or whatever. This may be. What's the word? Controversial. But I would encourage you to sit through it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sit in it.

[B]

I was just gonna say that the thought of being triggered when I. We all have buttons, right? Metaphorical buttons. Things that can push our buttons. I'm of the belief if something pushes your buttons though, that means you should spend some more time figuring out why.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It. Almost every condition, it seems, from humanity has now been reduced to something that has to either be medicated or avoided.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I get triggered by that. So I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna confront that. How do you have. It's the same thing, right? If it's difficult, you're probably mining the correct. Yeah, I don't. I would really like to see a shift from. That triggers me and therefore I avoid to that. And I'm not saying everybody is like this, but there is a large cohort of people that are like this. That changes it to. I feel triggered by this. And I'm going to figure out why.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I think you can work your way through that minefield and not end up like Nick. Pun intended. You know what I mean? Because he's missing a leg. For those of you who don't know who we're talking about. Not from a landmine though.

[A]

So. So, dude, there's so much to that right there that I could talk about. And it's so frustrating because when I do deliver my speech or my story in an audience, there are so many people that don't want to hear it or they don't think my story is good to tell. I've been turned down many times for. For a lot of really stupid fucking reasons. And one of them is because we don't appreciate the way you talk or the way you tell your story or the details or this or that. Right. Because it's triggering. We don't want our. We don't want our audience to be upset.

[B]

We can go back to Nick's advice on that one. It's not the story for everybody. Right?

[A]

Yes. But my argument to those people is like, sit. Let these mother. Like, no, these people need to hear this because they need to know that somebody else has gone through it, somebody else got through it, and they've done some cool shit with their life. But not only that. The only reason I'm able to tell my story the way that I am is because I have been, quote, unquote, triggered by listening to somebody else's story. There's two people I'll give credit to as far as storytelling goes, and the way they tell their story and the way they explain trauma and the way they explain, like, just like you said, like, that. That pisses me off. That hurts me. Like, let me go into that water. Let me figure out what's in there and why this is so painful. Why can't I talk about this? One of them was Tom Satterley. He's a Delta Force guy. Yeah. So when he was on Sean Ryan show, he talks about the Battle of Mogadishu for, like, the last time in full detail. Right. Me and Tom have nothing in common other than the fact that what you're talking about.

[B]

You're both in the Army.

[A]

Yeah, I was in the army, and he was.

[B]

You're both dudes. I mean, we could go on.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You guys have hair. Right? You wear shirts and pants.

[A]

Yes. Okay.

[B]

You have plenty in common.

[A]

We have.

[B]

You guys might be defined by your similarities more than your differences.

[A]

Okay. Andy, thank you.

[B]

Sit on that one for a bit.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. I get what you're saying. Yeah. No, so when I listen to Tom tell a story, he starts off the. The podcast with explaining trauma and how when he got back from war, his whole family was walking on eggshells and, you know, the dishes weren't done and the. The. The laundry wasn't done and the house wasn't clean, and the kids were doing this and the wife was doing this, and. And he's, like, going crazy, and. And everybody else is crazy because, you know, God forbid, I like, fucking. I don't know, you know, move something the wrong way. And, I mean, I was listening to that shit, and I was like. I mean, I was at work getting emotional because I was like, oh, my God, dude. Like, this is exactly who I am right now. And in my own personal life, with.

[B]

My just constantly on edge, putting everybody.

[A]

Else on edge because you don't know what I've been through. And so I can act however the fuck I want to act because you. You don't know what I've been through. So I can walk in here and I can say whatever the fuck I want, and if you try to press me, all I got to say is, you don't know what I've been through. And then because of the cancel culture, if you try to say no, Seth, if you try to hold me accountable, the people that are watching, they'll jump in the comments and they'll say no. Hey, Andy, don't ask him that question. Why would you ask him that? That's bullshit versus no man. Like, let's fucking figure this out. Like, why are you hurting? Like, why are you acting like that? Why are you doing that to the people in your life? And that's. So Tom's talking about a lot of this and trauma and then like the second hand effects of it, second order effects of it with your family and your friends and you know, when you're walking through hell and you're, you're on fire, everything around you burns and everything's gone. Right. And when you put out the fire, like everything's gone. So, so, so like don't be that person going, going around life like that. So hearing Tom talk about his story and tell his story in detail and, and the very vulnerable sides of his marriage and how he treated his family, that really helped me. And I've reached out to him and told him that. Which he did respond. And so thank you to that. Secondly, you know, it was end of 2023, I saw a story, Clark Fredericks. So he was on soft, right. Underbelly, never seen the channel before. Pops up on like a reel or some shit and it's this guy. Dude.

[B]

YouTube has had a pretty big impact in your life.

[A]

It's fucking crazy.

[B]

It's one of the beauties of our interconnected.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

World. One of the few beauties.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God, there's some downside, right?

[A]

Yeah, I get into all that too. Trust me, social media is a, It's a blessing and a curse. It's a necessity.

[B]

More of a curse than a blessing.

[A]

Yeah. Unfortunately we could turn the title on that, but it's not going to happen. Anyways, Clark, I saw him sitting, telling a story. I saw like a 90 second clip and that was all I needed. And, and you know, in short, I'll sum up Clark's story. It's fucking incredible, but when he was like 10 years old, 10, 12 years old, he, he was brutally raped by a man who was the police chief, boy scout leader, a man in the church of some former fashion hire, whatever. I don't know what the fuck they do.

[B]

Multiple positions of authority.

[A]

Yes. Community. Yep. Rapes Clark and goes and gets his dog. Brings it back in front of Clark and Beats the shit out of the dog in front of Clark, kills the dog and says, you know, if you tell anybody, I. I'll kill you. And so Clark shuts his mouth, goes home, lives out the rest of his life, becomes, you know, an addict, alcoholic, anger issues, all the problems, right? About 30 years later, Clark is at a deli up in New Jersey where he's from, Stillwater, New Jersey. And he's at the deli. And that guy walks in the deli and he's with a little boy. And he calls this little boy the Nick, the same name that he used to call Clark when Clark was a kid, and just fucking sets him off. About three days later, Clark and his business partner, he worked, I think at a tire shop or some shit, they're at a bar, they're drunk, and they just had a bad business deal. And, you know, so they're drinking and they're pissed off about this guy who just screwed him over on some business deal. And his buddy goes, man, I bet you that guy's number one in your hit list right now. Talking about the guy that screwed him over. And Clark says, for the first time in his life, out loud, he says, no, the motherfucker who raped me when I was 12 years old is. And his buddy looks at him, he's like, what the fuck are you talking about? And Clark tells him the story, and the guy's like. And his name's Dennis Pegg. And so everybody knows him. He's the police chief, you know. And so the guy's like, well, what the fuck? Like, let's go get his ass. And so they're drunk, dude.

[B]

Classic.

[A]

Yeah, drunk. Yeah.

[B]

Operational planning cycle.

[A]

Exactly. Let's go get him. And so do they.

[B]

I know how we can solve this. It's you and I again.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And so I've never been a part of one of those conversations.

[A]

So they pull up to the guy's house, they open up his front door. It's like 10 o'clock at night. The guy's sitting there in the living room watching tv, and he turns and looks at Clark and he's like, hey, Clark, how you been? And Clark's like, how have I been you? And he runs in there and he stabs him to death in his living room and fucking murders him.

[B]

I, at a moral level, have absolutely no problem with that.

[A]

Oh, fuck, yeah, man. There's nothing wrong with that.

[B]

It crosses a few legal boundaries, unfortunately.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

But I would, if I was in his shoes, I would do that and probably have one of the best Nights asleep in my entire life.

[A]

So, yeah, there's a lot to that. Right. And everybody applaud Clark for it. One of the things that I love about him that he. That he does say is, you know, because that's what everybody's like, man, it must have been cool to kill a child predator, right? And Clark's like, look, man, honestly, you don't battle trauma with trauma. He's like, it was a traumatizing event. He tells the story, you know, before he cut his throat. He says, you know, how's it feel, little boys? And he cuts his fucking throat.

[B]

There's an argument for, you know, you don't fight trauma with trauma. But I tell you what. And I'm not an expert in these people, but I'm going to call them predators. The rate of recidivism, even when they go through treatment and therapy in prison, is shockingly high. It's the same as people who.

[A]

What the hell does recidivism mean?

[B]

Repeat behavior.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Meaning they'll. They go and they try to.

[A]

They're not re. They're not rehabilitating.

[B]

They will pick right back up where they left off.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I'll be very clear about this. Like, I. I didn't do in my military career. I was surrounded by amazing people. Occasionally, we would bump up against those who had the exact opposite beliefs of everything this country is founded on and what I believe it stands for. And they would kill you and everybody, you know, and your family just to make a point, because they have the opposite belief. I don't know of any other way to stop that person other than to put their lights out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know of another way to take those predators off the street other than actually taking them off the street in that way. And I'm not saying that people should do that. I'm just saying that there is another part of that conversation of you can't fight trauma with trauma. Like, okay, I get that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How the fuck do you solve. Not solve the problem, but how do you. How do you stop somebody who is. I mean, we're talking decades later. This guy saw him, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was in that deli with another kid. I'm not going to. I'm not Sherlock Holmes, but let's make a leap in an assumption, especially since he was using the same name, probably can figure out what would happen. Let's also imagine that that kid that he saw on the deli wasn't the only one in between the two. So, I mean.

[A]

Yeah, it's It's. It's fucked up, man. And, you know, I'll finish up his part of the story. He goes home, goes to sleep, wakes up, next day, state police are outside of his house and he goes to jail. There's a whole bunch of inner works that happen. That's really.

[B]

How do they solve it so quickly? That's a quick turnaround time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like csi, the TV show, just so people know, is largely made up. They take. They have all those tools, but they don't work overnight like that.

[A]

I know. That's what's crazy. I can't remember. There's something.

[B]

They put the pieces there together pretty well.

[A]

Yeah, he's. I think he like, calls his mom or, or maybe, I mean, Dennis Pegg was a very known person.

[B]

I'm going to say that the guy decided to take his own driver' license out and put it on the table. That's how I think they caught him.

[A]

Maybe, you know, I can't. He does. Clark does tell this part where he, they. How they found him so quickly. Nonetheless, it's kind of funny. He puts on his state police shirt and walks out because he thinks that if he wears a state police shirt, they're going to fucking like give him some like, leniency and so maybe they'll.

[B]

Give him one click less on the cuffs.

[A]

Yeah. So he goes to jail and they're, they're. He's pissed, you know, because he just got arrested. He's on.

[B]

He did just murder somebody.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's the difference between. I don't have a moral issue with that, but there are legal boundaries.

[A]

Exactly. So he's mad as fuck and he's in the prison and he's like, you motherfuckers are arresting me. And this guy was this and that and this, and lo and behold, it comes out like the next day or two, there's like rallies where they're like, free Clark. And Clark's like, what the fuck? Come to find out Dennis Pegg had been doing this for 30 plus years.

[B]

I mean, and that probably was the breach in the dam where it started coming out.

[A]

There was no victims ever. Nobody would ever report him. Nobody would ever say anything. Which I'll lead into another statistic and then I'll get into the story. They find out that Dennis is basically accountable for hundreds of addiction cases, suicides, domestic violence cases because of all these people. He was taking boys that were in a juvenile detention center. He would take them home at night to mentor them, and then he would just rape them and take him back and you know, people in power, that's what they do. And it's not the man in the van. It's. It's the fucking people that anywhere there's a collection of kids, there's fudgeing weirdos there. That's where they go online. Video games, churches, schools, Anywhere there's kids, man, that. Those are the people that you have to watch. Because if I go. If you. If you go and touch my daughter, she's going to have some adverse reaction because she doesn't know you right now. If mommy and daddy go and do it, she might be like, that's weird, but.

[B]

Or a distant family member.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Stranger danger is real.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But the positioning, where 99.9% of the danger comes from stranger danger, I think is one of the biggest missteps that was made along the way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm not an expert in the stats, but I've talked to enough people now that it almost always comes from somebody in your social circle or familial circle.

[A]

Yeah. So. So to speak on that, statistically speaking, it's roughly. And you know, people always going to. About statistics. But the point of it is, it's rampant. Okay. One in three girls will be sexually abused before they're 18. One in four boys, one in 10 will report. So for every one, there's nine others that haven't said anything in their entire lives. The average age of reporting is 53 years old.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. So most people live their entire lives without telling a soul. And I've given so many speeches where men that are 40, 50, 60 years old come up to me and they're crying because they've lived their whole life in pain and suffering, embarrassment and resentment because they never told anybody what happened to them. And they're a man. I mean, look at, you know, I tell my story all the time. Like, look at me. I'm a fucking combat veteran, bearded big guy, husband, father, fricking doing all these. All this cool shit. Like there's no way in hell this guy has gone through that, you know? And so a lot of these guys are carrying weight and women too, but a lot of people are carrying weight that we just don't see. And they don't because they don't report it. And it's the. The effects of childhood trauma, neglect and abuse is the leading public health cost in America. Over $14 trillion a year is being spent treating the effects of, like, mental health diagnosis ADD adhd, which the symptoms of ADD and ADHD are so closely tied to ptsd. Responses that, that's why we have an over diagnosis of those things. You see a child that can't pay attention, why can't he pay attention? So there leads to another whole thing of like not what's wrong with this kid, but what's happening to this kid. What's happening to this. This person. The reason why they're acting a certain way. What. What happened to them that makes them act away or what didn't happen for them. Were they not loved? Were they not treated? Because even just neglect is just as detrimental as abuse and trauma. Okay. So it's the leading public health costs. Treating, treating all of that. When you put all the reason why people are getting all these treatments and now you're really. Now you can lump in the sex changes that they're performing on kids. You can lump that right in there too.

[B]

We have to change that term because there's never been a successful sex change operation.

[A]

So the mutilation of. You know what I mean?

[B]

That's how people position it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There has never been an actual successful.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Sex change operation.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm glad you said that because the, the terminology does matter. A lot of people call it child porn as well. It's not porn. Porn implies consent. It is. It's child sexual abuse material.

[B]

What are you typing over there? Michael?

[A]

Please don't be looking up.

[B]

Did you hear the typing? I'm like, I made that comment. And you have furiously started typing. Are you trying to prove me wrong?

[A]

Has there ever been a successful sex change operation?

[B]

No.

[A]

Make sure you clear your history. It's okay.

[B]

This is again. I need you to log out of everything associated with my name and log back into your personal. What was the results?

[A]

Well, I mean, this says yes, but it's Google, so of course they're going to say that.

[B]

Define yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Were you able to put or modify the sexual reproductive organs of an individual to appear to be that of the opposite sex? Sure. At a genetic level.

[A]

Yeah. No.

[B]

Is it possible?

[A]

No. Yeah. Right.

[B]

And that. And I'm going to add to that because I do believe that there are people who feel like they are trapped in the wrong body. And I have nothing but empathy for that. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to participate in somebody telling me that they were born as a man and are now a woman. I want them to live their most enriching and fulfilling life. I have no problem with that. But don't push that ideology on me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As long as we can respect those boundaries. And you're not preying upon people. And I'm going to add to that too. You need to be an adult when you make these decisions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have to be an adult. And we could argue about what that means because in the U.S. right. And I say this based on my own children. They turned 18 and got their driver's license. Dad, I'm an adult now. And I look at them like, no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the eyes of the law. And I mean they are an adult technically in the eyes of the law. But I'm looking at them and all I can still see is the small child that I used to carry around.

[A]

And yeah, there's a lot that you can get into with that. You know, the thing is, is, is you don't want. We don't let kids get face tattoos. Why? Because it's a fucking life altering decision. Yeah. Okay. Your kid, like my son picks up a Barbie doll. I'm not like running to him and parading him like, oh, my son's fucking gay. Like, look, my son, he's gay, you know, and, and there's so many. I don't give a. If you feel like you're a man or a woman. There's so many other details I'm more concerned about with you personally. Yeah, so. So I think we put it on a pedestal for some reason or. Well, not. And this is like the, this is the minority, to be clear. It's, you know, I think the average. You go door to door knocking on. You find out America is like still a good place. It's just the loud minority that gets crazy with it. Nonetheless. Got down that rabbit hole. Statistics and. But yeah, the, the, the $14 trillion a year spent treating all these effects. Right. Of a bad childhood. So then you have trafficking, which I wasn't trafficked, but very closely related story. Very similar to a lot of those people. The same upbringing. And trafficking is the world's leading industry. Over $850 billion a year. And America's the number one consumer.

[B]

So I've done a bunch of episodes. Actually the episode that'll come out a couple weeks before this one. There's a organization up here called Deliver Fund. They're anti human trafficking. Yeah, it's important, I think for people to recognize and understand too, trafficking. Sexual human trafficking is actually the minority of human trafficking. It exists almost always in plain sight. Yeah, I grew up in California and I didn't recognize that a lot of the workers in the fields providing, you know, working agricultural fields, they would have a broker between the owner of the farm and the Workers and the broker collects the money and puts all of those people into a house where they're just cramped inside of there and gives them a minimum amount of money. That is also trafficking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Apparently it's very often are common in hotel workers, but most people think it's Craigslist ads. Women in sexual trafficking. That is a portion of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it is huge beyond that as well.

[A]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know a whole lot about. I mean, I would love to get into the rescuing of people like that. I just have a burning desire for it. I don't have the, the, you know, years of like intel and Green Beret and Navy SEAL type of knowledge that they.

[B]

None of that knowledge would help. And actually when Nick was sitting here, he's asked me, he's like, hey, you want to get involved? And I keep telling him, I can't be around these people because I will go to jail.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I will go to jail. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, I just. Yeah, I think it definitely takes a certain type of person from my experience when I've reached out to help. They're looking for people that have that background of the, the, the. What do they call it, like mapping out the human profiling type of. Or whatever. I don't know.

[B]

Anyways, smarter people than you and I are doing that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So the time that. Basically they told me the time that it would take to train me, they just would rather hire somebody. That's more. And I get it. So nonetheless, I'll use my voice in another. In another manner. But I. I watched Tom tell his story, you know, and then Clark Fredericks, and then when Clark told his. The thing about Clark that I love. And just to wrap it up too, he was. He was sentenced to. He was facing life. He was sentenced to five years in prison. He got out. Now he's a motivational speaker. He'll be an author next year as well. I got to meet him earlier this year, which was like, you know, I don't really put people on a pedestal anymore, like football players, none of that shit. Used to, when I was a kid. Now when I meet somebody like Nick and truthfully meeting you, it's like really cool to be like, man, I'm fucking met. Andy Stump or Nick Lavery.

[B]

And you'll leave with the recognition that I am a completely normal person that is as flawed as you. Probably more so with my own shit going on. Yeah, it's. It's odd. The hosting this podcast is odd because I meet people and they know far more about me than I know about them. So there is a disparity. Yeah, in I guess, familiarity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I try to be super open about myself, my struggles, the things that I've gone through, the few successes I've had, the multiple failures. But I just happen to have started this a long time ago. And for some people it clicks and others it doesn't. And there's an audience associated with that. But there is absolutely nothing about me that is unique or special. But people don't believe that when they meet me, I'm like, hey, I'm sorry that you and I have been talking with each other on YouTube. And by that I mean I've been talking at you because it hasn't been a two way conversation because people meet me and they're nervous. I'm like, dude, take it easy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, you know, you just grow up and you, you see people in that light, you put them on a pedestal. You put them on a pedestal, man.

[B]

It'S dangerous because they're going to fall off at some point.

[A]

And. And man, you base your whole life on what this person is doing, saying or believing or thinking. And it's. I was thinking about this last night for some reason where we look at people as objectively good or bad. And so when that person makes a mistake, it's like, oh, this person's, this person's a fucking cheater or a liar or whatever. It's like, the guy made a fucking mistake, man. I mean, look at all the good things this person's done.

[B]

Problem is, most people won't acknowledge their mistakes. Sure. You know what I mean? So if they make a mistake and they try to play the game of I'm gonna ignore the response instead of addressing it, I think it gets worse. And I think that shatters a lot of what the perception is of that person. My theory is when I mess up, which I do all the time, and this is outside of like the podcast content world, and even in my own personal life, I try to immediately acknowledge that and address it because we're all going to fail and we are all going to make. I don't have a spreadsheet long enough to count the galactic mistakes that I've made in my life or the situations where I wish I had said something different or been a better person, better dad, bit of better husband, like there's not enough time. But I just try to address them. And I think as long as people are willing to do that, you can see them as a person and not A figurine, right? Lack of a better term.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. And I. So. So I guess, you know, the point of all that was when I do meet people that I think are, like, normal people, and I'm like, but this guy, they're just. They're good people, but they're just fucking normal people, just like me. And truthfully, I've had enough conversations with Nick now to where, like, I look at Nick, like, I would call him a friend of mine. He probably would call me his friend.

[B]

Be surprised. I bet he would.

[A]

Well, yeah, he would. I'm just. I'm just giving you. But Nick, you know, I. When I. My first initial. When he responded to an email, I was like, oh, my God. Like this guy, you know, But. But honestly, it speaks to his character of just acknowledging it, telling me he was going to do something and following through. And then when I got to go meet Clark earlier this year, to the reason why. Meeting Clark and the reason why I put Nick on. Not a pedestal, but he's so high on my hierarchy of good people, is because Clark, he changed my life when he told his story, and he gave me, like, a sense of permission, you know? And if it wasn't for him to. Truthfully, if it wasn't for him to. If I wouldn't have seen his video, I don't know, I think I would have told my story eventually. I don't know if I would be telling it the way that I do and making the impact that I have made thus far in just a year. So when I meet somebody like that and I go and tell them, I'm like, man, you just. You've changed my life. Like, there are not words that I can say to make you feel how important you are to me. So the only thing I can do now is action. The only thing I can do now is write the book and help and pay it forward and save others. Okay? And I say the same thing about Nick, or I tell Nick, you know, he put his name on the back of my book, you know, and gave me all the guidance and mentorship and all of these things over this last year on a moment's notice. If I text him, he's got me like, hey, what you got? Boom, here we go. And to not know me from nothing and just for some fucking reason to pour into me, like, the way he has. That's the pedestal that I put people on, or for lack of a better term, is. They are so important to me because I. I have changed the world at this point. I think I truly believe that I have made a massive impact that I just don't know when it's going to. I don't know when the fruits of my labor will be. Will be, you know, there. That's the unfortunate part of the impact business is you don't get to see the fruits of your labor. Most of the time it's. You're long and gone and my name will be forgotten and people will stop buying my book at some point. But this story will impact somebody who's going to tell their story. And so, you know, when you really dig into that, the impact you have just by sharing your story and helping somebody, it can go a long way. There's people that I've acknowledged in my book from my childhood who I always say I was running around with a cup that was. That was. Had a hole in the bottom of it. And I just. Love was just. I just didn't have it. And there were people that always at the right moment came by and just gave me a little bit of love. And I just remember them. And so I've gone back and I've thanked them. I've gone back to my hometown. I've thanked them. And so Nick is one of those people that, you know, I can't say enough. I can't say enough about the guy because there's so many people in the SEAL community, the SF community, the retired, you know, special operations community essentially, that are using that brand and they're ripping people off and they're. And I was almost one of them, you know, not going to name drop, but the guy fucking told me if I paid him like $5,000, he would coach me for the rest of the year, you know.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. And I almost bet I almost bit. And once we go off air, I'm.

[B]

Going to get that name out of you.

[A]

Fair. So then I, you know, but then I got connected with Nick and you know, and Nick is. He's never, obviously he's never asked me for money and he is just. He was. He's one of those people we were talking about earlier that are trying to get something out of you. I think Nick is mutually beneficial. He wants. I think he sees the value in me. And then obviously he knows his own value, but I see the value in him. So anyways, all that. So to get to the nuts and bolts of it, all of the story, right. Just to be clear, like I said earlier, there's not enough stories I could tell you to really feel the gravity of the situation of what was going on. There's a few stories that I'll tell that kind of sum it up. But to understand that 30 years of life told in a hour or two of platform is just not enough. And I say that so that when people hear other people's stories, they understand that this person may tell you one story, but there's likely 10 others that they just don't have time to tell you. And there's just so much that goes into this. So I was born and raised in Lima, Ohio. Northwest Ohio.

[B]

Lima.

[A]

Lima. Yeah. L. I M a. Yeah, we don't call it Lima. It's Lima.

[B]

Are you guys known for your beans out there?

[A]

We are.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Just check it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called the Bean.

[B]

Very creative name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It gets. Of all time. Nobody knows where it's at. Lima. Lost in middle America. Anyways, it's. It's two hours south of Detroit. It's on I75, maybe 34, 000 people. Just to paint the picture. It's. It felt like a big city to me when I was growing up, because in the 90s, you could actually, like, walk outside and, I don't know, you could ride your bike, you know, across the city without being. I don't know, whatever.

[B]

I think that was true in most cities.

[A]

Right, right. And so Lima was like one of those places, and it just felt like a big city to me because I would ride my bike across the town, you know, whatever. Anyways, when I was about two years old, my father, he. He stabbed my mom behind the ear, almost killed her. And so my mom was raising me and my two sisters by herself. He. My father went to prison for that, obviously. And I don't know the full story of that to this day. It's a he said, she said between those two. And I don't know if I ever know the full details of what happened. I'd love to know it, but that. That'll likely never surface. So my mom raising three kids by herself, you're already statistically behind the fucking ball, right? I mean, raising kids is. Is arguably one of the. I don't truly think it's that difficult, but it is one of the most important things you can do, raising them right. And it takes a tribe. It just does. Like, kids need. They need the more positive influences the most as possible. We didn't have that. Like I said, I didn't have any positive role models. I had examples. And, you know, when I was about five years old, those are my earliest memories. And we lived in this apartment complex, and my mom I was in kindergarten. My mom would. My mom would work during the day so she could be with us at night. So we'd wake up in the morning, go to school, come home, and she would be gone for two, three hours. And then she'd get home, you know, four or five, six o'clock or whatever. She'd be with us and put us to bed.

[B]

Were you guys on your own during that time?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we're running around by ourselves. Five, six, seven years old. And the thing with that is, like, we, we would come home and my mom would have a notepad. She'd write out our chores, you know, and so she would say, you know, hey, you know, you have this and this and this. Do all these things before you go outside. And we were sufficient. My mom was very disciplinary of a mother and. And she had to be. When you're raising three kids by yourself, like, they've got to be able to take care of themselves because you can't afford a babysitter, you know, all of those things. And we were in babysitter's houses a lot of times, but that shit costs money. And so I imagine my mom took me out of it or took us, took us out of it. So we would go see a babysitter. Sometimes we wouldn't, you know, sometimes we'd live with a babysitter for two or three weeks. And at the time, I don't think we really understood what was happening. My mom was like, quote unquote, getting her shit together. You know, there would be periods of time where we would go live with somebody for two or three weeks. And so since my mom wasn't there during the day, we. We would get into shit. Unfortunately, at five years old, I. We found her porn and we started watching like full blown like VHS porn tapes. And at 5 years old, as you can imagine, it's rather like captivating. Right?

[B]

You're just kind of like captivating maybe, but zero context.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, maybe. Captivating is probably not the right word. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

I think it might be the right word.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you just don't have the context or the processing power to understand what you're seeing.

[A]

Yeah. And so you. So I remember watching it and being infatuated. And that's actually probably a better word because I was like, you're just like, whoa, like, what the hell is going on here? You know, and oddly enough. Well, I mean, it makes sense. But, you know, maybe a week or two later I end up trying to have sex With a girl who's like six years old. I'm five. Five, six years old. She's my age. We're in a closet. And I remember being in that closet. She had sweatpants on. And, like, making out with the girl and, like, attempting to have. Trying to do something, recreate what I had seen, you know, and my mom bust opened the door and yells at us, and she ends up whipping my ass for it. And maybe rightfully so, but maybe not. Nonetheless, this kind of sets you up for the rest of life. Okay, So I was desensitized to sex, essentially.

[B]

Did you even know what it was at that age, really?

[A]

No. Yeah, you're just recreating. You're just recreating what you see, you know, so when you see kids do things, they're obviously. Or they're likely a mirror of their parents. If they're assholes. Well, their parents are probably assholes.

[B]

And so sometimes they're just little shits.

[A]

They are. They, they, they. They are quite literally sociopaths until they're about eight years old.

[B]

Nonetheless, if it's a girl, men, let's extend that sociopath to about 37.

[A]

37. I got seven more years.

[B]

Enjoy the ride.

[A]

Okay, cool. So a couple weeks. Actually, I don't know the timeline here at this point. I mean, my childhood's really cloudy as far as my. My frame of reference is. Is school and figuring out what grade I was in and what neighborhood I lived in. But one of the babysitters that we would frequent, they had, like, four or five boys that lived there. They were all much older than me. The youngest one was at least five or six years older than me. The oldest one was a teenager. And unfortunately, he. That was. He molested me. I was five years old. He was a teenager. He looked like a man. I did not. That's all I can remember. And, you know, he touched me. He made me touch him. He exposed himself. He looked at me. And that was, like, the extent of the abuse. I actually did report that. You know, I don't know how. I don't know when I did, but I ended up telling my grandparents around that time, we would go see my grandparents on the weekends, you know, every now and then. And my grandma, she was kind of reading the bad touch, good touch kind of books to us, you know, And I was kind of like, oh, wait a second. And I told my grandma why it happened. And so they. They did. My grandma and my grandpa. As I tell the story, one of the questions I get all the time is, why didn't they step in and save me? To be clear, they tried to save me from the time I was born. The system is just fucked up. And it's almost impossible to take kids away from their parents until they're dead. Basically. That's, that's what happens most of the time, or so it seems. Nonetheless, we told my grandparents, my grandparents did try to fix the problem. It was swept under the rug, which is very common. You report it and then they say that didn't happen here, my kid didn't do that, or whatever. And I don't even blame that kid. I'm not mad at that kid for what happened. There's usually one reason why a kid is touching a kid and it's probably because he was touched or he was exposed to it in some form or fashion. Turns out, you know, 20 years later that kid went to prison for raping the girl next door. Unfortunately, you know, and whole lot to that too, but so yeah, I was molested by that kid at 5 years old. And then when I reported, we were still sent back to that house to be babysat by them, still lived with those people from time to time. The abuse I don't think continued. I don't have any memories. I think it only happened a few times. And I kind of just, I don't know, I think I just. As a kid you're just surviving, you know, life is already rough as it was. And so then you go into this reptilian mindset of you're just food and water. And I talk about it in my book, I think of like what they talk about and buds, which is just segmentation. It's just get to the next objective, get to the next meal, get to the next day. And that's kind of what you're doing when you're living in a adverse childhood experience. And so, you know, seven, eight years old, somewhere around there, my mom brings up my father, or she had always talked about my father and how big of a piece of shit he was because he was never involved, he wasn't paying child support, you know, all of the things negative. I never heard anything good about my father.

[B]

How would he pay child support from prison?

[A]

I don't know and I don't, I have no idea. All I, all I can remember is the toxicity of, of the environment. Right when you, you grew up without a father. I don't think you realize you don't have a father. Maybe some people do. I don't think I really understood it. I just knew that my mom talked shit about him, you know, and so I didn't like him. I had this, like, ill opinion. And it's. It's actually very. It's like poison to a child by telling them their parents a piece of shit, you know, it's very bad. It messes the child up. We call these father wounds or mother wounds. And so I dealt with that. And around seven or eight years old, my mom had finally mentioned, like, going to meet him. So my first memory of my father is meeting him in prison. Going to the jail or whatever. And you walk in and there's a bunch of cubicles and plexiglass and phones. And sit down and see my dad walk in. He's six foot tall. He's got all kinds of prison tats. He's bald. He's got a skull in the back of his head and pain tattooed across his throat and, like, big block graffiti letters. He's got ozzy across his knuckles. Like he's. All his fingers look broken and nubbed up, and he looks like a man who's been through some, you know, and the. That was my first time. That's my first memory of him. And I remember he sits down across me just like this. I pick up the phone and I can't talk. I just break down and start crying. And I just felt so bad, you know, it's like having a puzzle and there's like, one piece in the middle, and you finally find it and you're just like, God damn, like, I got it. You know? And that's kind of how it was, except I didn't have the piece. I just couldn't get to it, you know, I think maybe in that moment I, you know, thought about, like, my friends and throwing football and playing baseball and whatever, you know, And I just never experienced that. Right. So it sucked, man. And I didn't talk to him. I couldn't talk. I just cried the whole time for 30 minutes.

[B]

Did he talk to you?

[A]

Yeah, he tried. Yeah. Yeah. I gave the phone to my sisters. They talked to him. They had conversation with him. I am a very emotional person, and just naturally, my sister's not so much as I am. I'm a crier, for sure. And so when those moments happen, I just. I just cried and it was tough, you know, so we walked out. I think he got out of jail or prison or whatever shortly after that because, like, I would see him occasionally, but, like, he lived in an apartment above a tattoo shop and was an alcoholic, and that was that, you know, so would barely ever see him. I don't have any memories of like participating in sports and like mom and dad are in the crowd and they're cheering you. I was just out there, you know, I don't have any of those like happy memories. The happiest memory I have with like my mom for some reason I was five, six years old, I had chickenpox and I was staying home from school and we were sitting on the couch sharing a bag of potato chips and for some reason I can feel her hand. I just remembered this like recently. I don't know what happened that popped in my head, but it did. But I can just remember like her hand feeling her hand in the, in the bag and there's just like really like sentiment, sentimental moments that you have with your parents that for some reason they just stand out, you know, and that's, that's the one that stands out. And I think it was like I was just alone with my mom and she was caring for me and I just felt so loved in that moment to be on the couch with her by myself, you know, because even in those apartment complexes we would come home and we would, we would hear her arguing and fighting and bragging about how her current boyfriend was a piece of shit or come home and there's a hole in the wall and there's broken glass on the floor and she's talking about how she had gotten to a fight and her boyfriend swung on her and he missed her, but she did this and she's like talking about this like braggadociously about how her relationships are, you know. So when you're around like all that violence, when you feel like the warmth of a hug, I mean it's like a big deal, man. People don't realize that people that grow up without parents or without that love and affection, just a little bit of love, it means a lot. So anyways.

[B]

That is crazy to hear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My children would probably say that I am ridiculously over affectionate with them. Like I'm constant. I just, I've always been an affectionate person and I appreciate touch for sure. I can't even fathom a world of. I'm going to use the term neglect, whether it's the right word or the wrong word. Where just the physical act of a hug, which in my mind. And you're a parent now, right?

[A]

Do you hug your kids?

[B]

I don't think I can go a day without any. Even my 21 year old son. I'm like, get over here before it is such. It's not that it's a Thoughtless act. It's an act that occurs so much. It's just an ingrained part of our life. I can't even fathom the level of neglect where the single act of just sharing a moment of time or hug could impact you in that way, because it speaks to and defines how far out of the light that person is.

[A]

Yeah. So that goes two ways. We'll get into that here in a little bit. But even as a. As an adult, when I hug my kids, I hug the fuck out of it.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it's real.

[A]

I'm like, man, you little motherfucker.

[B]

I get the underhooks. I get double unders. And just.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, dude, I just fucking love it. You know? And so many people that I see who don't appreciate maybe their spouses or their kids or even just their family, just their mom and dad or their grandma and grandpa or their cousins or their fucking aunts and uncles, like, you know, there's. There's so much appreciation that I have for people. You know, like I talked about with Nick and Clark, like, there's a reason why I am the way that I am. Right. So nonetheless, you know, maybe eight, nine years old, that's kind of when life really started to pick up. And, like, maybe. Maybe that's just because I was old enough to start to see it and understand it more. I think maybe it could have been the whole time I just. Eight, nine years old, you really start to have some pretty vivid memories. And my mom had always smoked. She'd always smoked cigarettes and smoked weed. So there were. We were used to that. And this is back in the, you know, late 90s, early 2000s, when, like, if you were smoking weed, you were like a criminal. And so we were. I just remember it being, like, very secret. You know, you weren't supposed to tell anybody and all that. And so she had always smoked, always drank. There was always a bunch of people at our house smoking, you know, drinking, having a good time. And it was just. Our house was like, for some reason, the place to be with everybody. And. And then she became. She started to become more violent. I don't know if it was the stress of life raising three kids. You know, I don't know what it was, but she started to become more violent, emotionally, physically abusive. So I talked about earlier, coming home one day and seeing my sisters in there smoking weed with them. Right. Well, like a week or two after that, I'm sitting in my bedroom and I'm on. I'M on my bed playing Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, which is awesome.

[B]

Banner of the gang. Yeah, I used to like to fly the helicopters in that one.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Badass game. So playing that game, right, for context, I'm 10 years old playing that game, and I knew how to do everything, which probably not the best. Maybe.

[B]

I mean, for greater context, you got into porn at 5, so it's a natural extension.

[A]

Fair enough.

[B]

Into porn, I mean. Stumbled across something. You had no idea what you were exposed to, but it still happens.

[A]

You know what? I'm glad you said that, because this is. Is something I always forget to tell people, which just further exasperates, like, just how fucked up shit was. At 10 years old, my mom knew that I was going into her room and taking her porn and watching it. She had, like, we had, like, DVDs at this point, a little bit of an upgrade. And so instead of hiding it, she just gifted me the porn and said, you can just watch it whenever you want.

[B]

Are you serious?

[A]

Yeah. And I did not realize how bad that was until, like, just recently, like, maybe within the year, because I was just like, I, I didn't, I did not even realize, like, I mean, I would watch that shit like it was Breaking Bad, you know, I would just sit there and watch it.

[B]

And I cannot fathom providing that to one of my children at 10 years old.

[A]

Nonetheless.

[B]

Ever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, true. Yeah. Imagine, like, your kids, like, 21. You're like, here's your pornhub subscription. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

[B]

I, I, I honestly can't make sense of that decision.

[A]

Yeah, that's something I often forget to, to talk about, which I think is a key detail of, of a lot, so, of what was going on. I mean, that if that doesn't tell you what's happening, I mean, that's fucking crazy. Yeah. So nonetheless, I'm sitting here playing Grand Theft Auto, and I'm on my bed. My back's against the wall. TVs in front of me. Right. My sister is off to the side over here. She's. There's another wall. She's got, she's got her back against the wall. My doors right here. She had just gotten into a fight with my younger sister, and I heard him out there, so she came in there to vent to me. My door's closed and, and whatever, playing the game. She's got a sucker in her mouth. And my door fucking swings open. Boom. Fucking bounces off the wall. My mom walks in unannounced or whatever, provoked hammer Fistile strikes my sister in the mouth probably three or four or five times, like vicious, like bouncing her head off the wall. I look over and just like, boom, boom, boom. I'm like, you know, I jump on the other side of the bed and I'm crying immediately, just hysterical. I remember like being at the mattress, you know, eye level and looking up at my mom as she's punching my fucking sister. And she looks at me and she says, what are you fucking crying about? Stop being a fucking bitch before I give you something to cry about. And you know, I'm like, this is my mom. This is my protector. This is the only person that I have, like, what the hell is going on? And this is when I began to realize, like, this is not normal. Like this is not okay. And that's when I started to have the. I knew I was going to tell my story one day, right? And she walks out. You know, my sister and I sat there and held each other and cried. And I'm trying to. I often try to think about a way to tell these stories to get people to understand how severe they are. Because a lot of times when you hear these stories, you hear a lot of people, they'll say, you know, I got my ass whooped too, you know. You know, and occasionally a mom or dad does smack their kid or punch their kid out of frustration. The difference I think in most situations is that there is a, an apology or some level of affection or follow up to that point where this was purely like rage and anger and beating the fuck out of a kid and then walking away like nothing happened. And maybe further to paint the picture, like to make it maybe have some sort of effect on you is think about on the other side of this wall, if you heard some kid in there getting punched and you heard him fucking screaming and crying like, or there's.

[B]

Nothing I wouldn't do to stop that.

[A]

Like those 911 calls, you know, with a little fucking four year olds, like.

[B]

Oh, it wouldn't even be a 911 call if it's not my kid. I would not be able to tolerate that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I'm going to be my own first responder on that one.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and so I don't mean.

[B]

As a kid, I mean as a fully formed adult in that situation. I'm going to call 911 after that's dealt with.

[A]

Yeah, man. So like for me, when I hear those, those phone calls, like those 911 recorded calls of like the kids calling and like my mommy, my mommy or, you know, whatever. Or you see those kids in court where their mom killed her fucking sibling or some shit. I mean, God, dude, that shit is like. The recordings of that is so haunting because it makes me think about my childhood where I'm like, Jesus, dude. Like, that's. That's kind of the environment we were living in. And so, you know, maybe a week or two later, I'm coming home. Or I rode the bus home from school, and this particular day, I didn't. I didn't ride the bus. I walked home with my cousins and. Yeah, go ahead.

[B]

I do it down here so people can't hear it.

[A]

Yeah, there we go. Can I have. Is there another one?

[B]

Yeah, let me grab it for you.

[A]

Okay. Hell, yeah. Yeah, we're gonna need that. I've been like, I've been pacing this one just to just to, you know, not be rude, but since you. Since you.

[B]

You problem with these though, is you got to pee.

[A]

I'm getting to that point. I got a diaper. Do you need to take a piss here?

[B]

Go take a piss. Yeah, we'll just take a break now.

[A]

This is a good, good intermission.

[B]

Yep. Ladies and gentlemen, today's episode is brought to you by Element, or lmnt. I really have heard people debate on how this can be said. I'm gonna say pick whichever one you want to. I don't necessarily think it matters. So what is it? It is a zero sugar electrolyte drink and a sparkling electrolyte water. They now have an RTD or ready to drink. That's where the electrolyte water is coming from. That has grown from the body of research revealing that optimal health occurs or outcomes occur at sodium levels that are two to three times the government recommendations. I first heard about this through a good friend of mine, Rob Wolfe. He and I actually have known each other for quite some time. I've hosted him on the show a few times as well. So please go back and reference those episodes. He is one of the smartest people that I know. Makes me feel like I am an absolute idiot anytime he opens his mouth. Because the things that he knows, I don't understand half the stuff he's saying now.

[A]

He.

[B]

I remember when he is a co founder of Element and when the company was starting, I was getting my hands on the product. And the cool thing is you can order bulk, like these huge boxes. Say huge, it's 30. But these things right here, these are my absolute go to. He and I were also jiu jitsu training partners for a couple of years. Actually when he moved to Montana from Texas. And I remember specifically what my body felt like before I started using element and then after I. And I can still feel it to this day because as much as I'd like to say I'm squared away, I don't always have these on me. But you go to training. For those of you who never trained Jiu jitsu, you are sweating through your clothing for sure. So there is an output of things coming out of your body. Most of the time I would rehydrate with just water and I'll tell you, it wasn't getting the job done. Sore achiness, just kind of feeling depleted for the remainder of the day. Started implementing with element. Now for me, 12 ounces of water is the minimum. Probably more like 16 because it is powerful it and you get used to it, but it can be overbearing when you first start. So I would say either cut the dosage in half or use more water than you think. But an instantaneous difference because I was putting back into my body the things that I was expressing during those hard training sessions. It's used by professional athletes. It's. It's accepted and adopted by almost every genre of sports at this point. This stuff is phenomenal. If this sounds like something that you want to integrate into your life or lifestyle, head over to drinklmnt.com Cleared Hot that is limamike November tango. Drinklement.com ClearedHot you're get a free sample pack with your first order or with any purchase, I should say. Which is probably a great way to test any brand out if they make a variety of things. Get the sample pack, see what you like, see what you don't like, keep what you do like, discard what you don't. And don't forget, you can try their new Element tea or Element Sparkling, which is the 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. They're pretty awesome. I have them in the mini fridge here at the studio. Michael seems to drink more of them than I've been able to get my hands on. That little bastard. But you know, he trains probably harder than I do, so needs it as part of his rehab and recovery protocol. Drinklement.com cleared hot. Get a little salt in your life. Back to the episode.

[A]

All right, continue.

[B]

Fire away. We're back. Fresh water's got a sixer on the table of water. Everyone take it easy.

[A]

So, yeah, so I never walked home from school. I was rode the bus and on this particular day me and my cousins decided to walk home. Me And a bunch of boys, two, three boys, doing typical bullshit, running around, doing bullshit before we go home. Right. And ended up taking us like two, three hours to get home because we're, we were just having fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I get home and I didn't think anything of it. Obviously, as a parent, you'd be a little concerned, your kids three hours late getting home. And most parents would probably be like, where's my child? Like, what's going on? Oh my God, you're finally home. Thank God, right? I get home and my mom's like, where the fuck have you been? Go upstairs. And it was like, really? Like, you could tell you fucked up bad. And I would say in most situations, kids could probably be like, okay, I fucked up. This is going to, you know, whatever, get a whoop and be over with. But when you, when you're, when you're scared to come home in the first place, it's already just not good. So go upstairs. Standard procedure for getting an ass whooping was like bending over the bed, grab the blankets, don't move. Because if you try to protect your ass with your hands, they're just going to get your hands hit. Right. And so my mom had this board that she would whoop us with. It was like a two by six handle carved in it. You know, a bunch of holes in there drill for optimal ass whipping. And the first time she hit me on that day, I realized, like, okay, this is not good. Like, literally the first crack, I rebound off the bed, fell to my knees, and she kept swinging. And so she went from hitting my ass to. She struck me across the back three, four, five times somewhere around there. And I can remember, like, I don't remember what it felt like, but I can remember being there on my knees, like fighting for my life to stand up, to try to like, get the hell out of the way. And my mom just kept swinging and she just, she swung it and I'm like bouncing off the bed. And it almost feels like there's like a cloud of like anger. You can feel the emotion. You can feel almost like the tension, I guess, in the air of just this. Like you couldn't breathe. It's like you couldn't breathe, you know? And I fell down and I'm. I'm laying there screaming and crying. And instead of I'm sorry, I love you and this is why I did this or whatever she says, get the fuck out of here, go to your fucking room. And so I like low crawl to my room. Probably being a little dramatic, but I just as far as, like, pain and the capability of standing goes. But I wanted to be loved, you know, every kid, especially when you upset your parents. What do you. You just want their approval, right? You just want, like, okay, I still love you, you know, Even though their forgiveness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So I crawled in my room, I laid in my room, and I cry and cry and cry. And that's when I. That's kind of one of those days where I was just kind of like, I'm going to do something special with my life. I'm going to get the hell out of here. I'm going to do like, this is not normal. This is not okay. It's also. I began to have, like, a lot of suicidal ideation. Started thinking about killing myself a lot. I would think about different ways I could do it, which there's, you know, a few mechanisms as a. As a child. And shooting, stabbing, drowning, jumping were like, the things that I would think about. I just. I was scared to feel pain. So that's like the thing that detracted me the most was I just didn't want to feel the pain. So I would sit outside my window at night, like, no shit. Staring down 25ft below, like, if I land just right, I'll fucking break my neck and die. But if I don't, I'm just gonna be this asshole who's crippled or tried to kill himself, you know, I mean, that's. That's literally the. The process that was going through my brain at 10 years old. And, you know, thought about stabbing myself, thought about shooting myself. I didn't have access to a weapon, had knives, but I was scared of that pain. So I never, never did anything, never attempted it. Nonetheless, those thoughts were probably nearly every day. Eventually they did become every day. But maybe in the early stages they weren't every day, but they were pretty frequent. And 10 years old, okay, so my mom, she starts to work at night. So she starts to work. We would go to bed, 8 o'clock or so she'd go to work. And she worked a factory shift. So she'd work like nine to nine, you know, at night. And we lived in this neighborhood. One night my sisters wake me up and they say, seth, somebody's trying to break in. And I'm like, what do you mean? I think they're messing with me at first. And I wake up and my one sister has a knife and the other sister has a alarm clock. She has the cord wrapped around her hand. She can swing it around, right? And I'm like, okay. They're serious. So we get downstairs and at 9, 10, 11 years old, me and my sisters are standing in the kitchen. We're watching the back door that has the handle, deadbolt and a two by four nailed across the door. And I'm just watching it, just ripping from the frame. Like there's three men outside my back door. One of them's got a baseball bat, the other one has sledgehammer and some other sort of blunt object. And they're, I mean literally just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Just striking this door, trying to get in the house. And I don't remember if I grabbed anything or what I had done. But we're standing there and we didn't have anything. We didn't have like electronics, we didn't have money, we didn't have anything for these people to get. And I don't know what they would have done had they gotten in the house. I don't know if they were coming for me and my sisters. Like, there's no telling what they were going to do. And neighbors come outside, scare them away, call the cops, cops show up, call mom home from work. Everybody gets there and the conversation was quite literally, these things happen, okay? Go back inside, go to sleep, wake up the next day, go to school. And so that was it. Like, there was no, like, hey, we need to talk about this. Are you kids okay? Like, whatever. There was nothing like that, you know, Wake up next day, go to school. Like, nothing, you know, and then, and then I go to school and I'm a, I'm a straight A student, but I was a troublemaker. I was a class clown, talking, fighting everybody. And so I was as smart as I was. I was that kid that all the teachers, I was a pain in their ass. And I was always the kid who was just like, why is this little kid being a fucking asshole? Right? That's what I talked about earlier, right? Where like, what happened? Like, what's happening to that kid? Why is he not paying attention when he comes to school? Or why is he being the way that he is? And so those are the questions that we fail to ask is what happened? So nonetheless, a week or two later, same thing happens. And this is kind of where we figured out that this was calculated. My mom left for work, same thing happened. People come in to break into the house. And so somebody that we knew, it had to be because they're, they knew her schedule or something. That time though, I woke up in my neighbor's arms. I don't know if they got in the house. But I woke up in my neighbor's arms. He said, hey, somebody tried to break in again, don't worry about it, I got you. Takes me over. The next takes me over to their house, same thing. Cops come, go back to sleep, wake up, go to school. So mom was crazy, she was getting crazier. And then our house is broken into several times, which just. I don't, I didn't realize how bad that affected me. Maybe at the time, but, but as an adult now, like if I hear something at my. If I hear the refrigerator making ice at night, it's like, is my alarm set? You know, because if it's not, then I'm like fucking freaking out, you know, so it really does fuck with you pretty bad. Yeah. Your personal security is something that is very important to you and you just don't realize it till it's been like breached or whatever, you know, compromised. So around that time, my mom gets a new boyfriend. This guy's name is Jamie. He's a fucking piece of shit. Light skinned guy, six, six foot tall, six'one six'two very muscular build, you know, just looked like a naturally muscular guy. Had cornrows, had a gold tooth, couple missing teeth. And I talk about him in my book and I say he had a crooked smile because he was very charismatic and just very. Everybody loved him. And as soon as I saw him, I knew he was a piece of shit. I mean, I just, I just knew it. I just knew something was wrong. And a lot of that comes from like, I can read body language very well, almost to the point where I swear I can read people's minds. I think if you understand human nature and body language and all those things, you likely can to some extent. But when you grow up the way I grew up, you know, and you know, you're walking down the street and you see somebody 50ft away, you have to know if that person's a threat or if somebody comes in your house, you have to know if that person's a threat. So you're just constantly assessing people all day long, you know, and so that's what happened. When I saw that guy, I just, I knew he's a threat. He was the pastor or preacher, whoever gets up there and speaks at a church, he was that guy. And my mom met him. He was a man of God and he was a savior, you know, so we go to this church and these are all people that are. This is my problem with churches. These are the people that need the most fucking help. And they would never These people that were in that church would never step into like your traditional church because they don't have their Sunday best and they don't have like all the nice shit. They're people with smokers coughs and fucked up teeth and bad hair and they stink because most of them are homeless or eating at a shelter or they're people that need fucking help and they can't even get it because society just deems them as. We don't want to associate ourselves, right? So I go into this church and that's all these people are. So I'm like, Jesus, you know, I'm like, you just have this uneasy feeling. He's leading the congregation or whatever. Everybody here loves him. My mom loves him. He starts selling her pipe dreams, okay? The way I think of pipe dreams are you sit around, you're drinking or smoking, you're hitting the pipe maybe, and you start to have all these visions, right, of like, hey, we're going to buy a house. We're going to live this great life. We're going to get out of this and we're going to do great things. And what happens when you're sober? It goes away, okay? We end up. He starts dating my mom, starts dating this guy. And he has my mom and sister's like fucking hook, line and sinker. Just, he's got him. And I was always just uneasy about him. And we end up moving to this other house that had no utilities. We lived in this house. We were moving in and didn't have the utilities, weren't turned on. And living without utilities was something I was familiar with. There were often times where we had to boil the bath water or whatever, which sucks, but that's just being poor. Being poor is not that hard. Living without love is hard. So I'll say that living without utilities was not a traumatic moment in my life. Although to some people, they can't even begin to fathom what that's like. Nonetheless, we move into this house in the middle of winter in Ohio. Okay? It's cold as fuck and so cold in the house, you can see your breath. We're running an extension cord through the shared basement of our neighbors to steal their power just to run a freaking space heater. And I. So the downstairs, there's no bedrooms. The upstairs has two bedrooms. So me and my sisters would go upstairs. I always got the smaller room because it was me. And then those two shared a room, right? We go up. At the top of the stairs is my room. I walk in, it's got hardwood floors. They're buckled all the way across the floor, like cracked, split, damaged. The room smells like shit and piss. Just stunk really bad. The people that lived there before apparently had like two or three dogs that were locked up in the room. And. Yeah, so, I mean, it was like fucking horrible. I just remember being just disgusting and I, you know, the floors are damaged and you might be wondering why. I look up and in the, in the corner of my bedroom, there is a fucking hole that's like 3ft by 4ft in the corner of my ceiling in my bedroom. Like everything's missing. You can see straight into the attic above. No insulation, like nothing. Right. I mean, it's, it's like I'm looking up, I'm like. And it's fucking freezing. Obviously the solution was to staple up some plastic and to stop the wind. So the elements were quite literally blowing into my room. Rain, snow, all of those things. It pulled up, you know, eventually there was like this big like puddle in there and it, you know, unfortunately it actually ended up busting one night while I was sleeping and soaks my whole room. But I, but I move into that room. I'm sleeping on like a 4 inch mattress. I have a thin little blanket. I'm pissing the bed every night, which is common with just trauma in general. Any, any kind of child who's stressed out, they usually wet the bed for a long time. And I was 10 years old and I was pissing the bed every night. So I'd wake up freezing cold in my own piss, get ready for school and go to school. You know, we're at this point. Jamie had gotten my mom addicted to cracking cocaine. So they're just, there's another layer of just trauma that gets added to the, to the, to the table, I guess. And with heavy drugs, there comes addicts and more people. And so in this, in this new environment that we're in, this new house, I mean, every fucking day there'd be like 8, 9, 10 people that come through the house. And we didn't know that my mom was addicted at that point. We had our suspicions because the house would stink really bad and there would be all these people, but then they would go to the bathroom and they would sit in the bathroom for four, five, six hours and they were just sitting there and get high all day long. And it was, that's when we started to put two and two together that something was wrong. And you know, and living in that house, that's when I, at 10, 11 years old or so, that's When I had started to lose respect for my mom and start to like have this hate towards her instead of loving her because of like going into that room and her just like putting her child in this room to sleep in versus like maybe sleep on the couch downstairs or like maybe somewhere where there's like warm, I don't know, you know, somewhere safe to sleep. And she put me in there, like no questions asked. So I, that's when I kind of started to hate her, to hate her for that. So around the same time of moving into that house, I meet this kid. His name is Jacob or a fake name for the story to protect his identity, but call him Jacob. And he's 15 years old, I'm 10 and start hanging out with him. And Jacob knows that my life is fucked up at home. I don't know if I told him or if he had been around enough to. You kind of just pick up on it maybe. And so he starts to protect me. I start hanging out with him and all of his friends, you know, going over to his house, playing video games. He's feeding me. I always had friends that were bigger than me or older than me and that's probably a father wound thing, looking for just somebody bigger to protect you, things like that. But a lot of my friends, they would invite me over and feed me. I mean they just knew that I something was wrong and I'd go over their house and eat all their eggs, you know. So Jacob was one of those kids, started to protect me. Well, one day after two or three months hanging out with Jacob, started hanging out with him every single day. After a few months I'm at his house and coming down the stairs and this guy walks in the front door. He's 6, 5, 6 6, 380 pounds, built like a left tackle, like just a massive guy, very big, but does not look sloppy. He looks like very imposing. Like he could throw a hard punch and you can tell he's Hispanic, but he's very pale, very pale skin. He's got like big like Dahmer style glasses on, long black slicked back hair. He walks in, he's wearing this big plain red T shirt and he's like, hey, what's your name? I'm Seth. He's like, oh, do you like football? Love football. Like the Buckeyes. Love the Buckeyes. You like video games? Yeah, I love video games. Oh cool. Well, why don't you come up to my house this weekend with me and Jacob and you know, we'll play, play video games. Eat pizza and watch football all weekend. I'm like, yeah, bro. Like, let's do it. So I'm gonna go home and ask my mom. So I go home, ask my mom, My mom says, hey, as long as you're with Jacob, you're good. Whatever. Go, go. So I go back to Jacob's house, get in the guy's car. And for. I didn't know this at the time, but the guy's like 30ish. Which is really weird because I'm 30. And so now, even when I tell the story, it's like, what the fuck? So I get in this car. He's driving a white Honda Civic. And I remember the AC being on, like, full blast. And this is the first time I think I'd ever got into a car. That ac. So I was like, damn, this is fucking nice. And because it was like. Like, these are the things that you appreciate as a kid, you know? And so there's trash all over his fucking car. But I didn't give a fuck because I was like, whatever, bro. Like, I'm a kid. You don't give a fuck. You know? So we go to this chicken place in my hometown before we hit the road to go to Bluffton, Ohio, which is about 30 minutes away. He gets me a freaking meal, you know, sides, large drink. And I'm in the back seat. I'm like, dude, this is fucking awesome. Like, I got a friend who can drive. He can buy me food. My buddy Jacob's riding shotgun. We're going up to Bluffton. We're listening to Metallica, AC dc. I'm eating all this fucking food. We're allowed to cuss. We can. Like, this is fucking awesome. I'm like, man, my life is going to turn around. Like, this is pretty cool. And so we get to his house, and it's a studio apartment. So it's one big room. You walk in. It's got low ceiling, acoustical ceiling tiles. And look off to the right, there's an entertainment center and like two or three TVs. Couch, chair back right corner's got two desktop computers. The middle of the room has a big glass table with a bunch of like, Dungeons and Dragons shit all over it. We end up. We played that a lot when we were over there. Back right corner is like the kitchen and the bathroom. And then the back left corner, there's this black curtain that's hanging from the ceiling and it's cornering off. That's where his bed was. And my initial thoughts were, one, the apartment was cold. Because the AC was on and it was just full blast. Big ass dude, he ran hot. Two was. There was multiple TVs and multiple game systems, which meant you didn't have to take turns and you could play all night long. And so we sit down, we started playing video games. You know, dinner time runs around, he orders a bunch of pizza, get a bunch of pop, energy drinks, and we're. And I mean, I didn't go to sleep, like, when I was at his house, especially that first weekend. I mean, I played video games for 36 straight fucking hours, like, just having the time of my life. Life, you know? And I remember, like, Jacob going back and sleeping in his bed with him. And I didn't think anything of it because as a boy, you're. You have sleepovers and you. You sleep with your friends and it's not a big deal, you know, and that's what I attributed it to. And I just was like, yeah, whatever, you know, not a big deal. Didn't think twice about it. And so he drops me off, you know, Sunday. That was like a Friday or Saturday. He drops me off Sunday, says, you know, hey, when do you want to come back? And I'm like, I'll come back whenever. Like, this is awesome. So basically from that point forward, I start going to his house every single weekend. 52 weekends in a year, I was at his house. No, 45 weekends out of the year.

[B]

Was Jacob there with you most of the time, too?

[A]

Most of the time, yes. So Jacob was 15 going on 16. I was like 10, 11 years old at the time. And so Jacob did start to go up there a lot. He did go with me a lot. Eventually I started going by myself. And for probably several reasons, you know, Jacob didn't want to go. And then I would just go by myself. And then my mom either didn't care or just stopped asking if Jacob was going, you know, and one of the. One of the weekends I was up there, maybe two or three months into knowing him, we're having conversation. I think we're probably driving up there, and Jacob was with us. And I start to tell. So this guy's name is Mondo. Okay, his name. His real name's Armando Vasquez, but he's. We called him Mondo for short. And I started telling Mondo that, you know, I have this tough life, and that my mom is very abusive. She's very mean. I mean, at this point, she was, like, fucking us up pretty good. And in addition, with all the drugs in the house, I would tell him Stories of where she would grab me by my. She always did this thing where she'd grab my face. She had long nails, and so she would grab my face and just, like, slam my head into the wall. And I can remember what it feels like to have her nails, like, digging, you know, digging the skin up kind of. And I can remember, like, looking into her mouth while she would yell at me. I never wanted to look her in the eyes. It's just kind of there's something looking at somebody in the eyes, you know? And so. But I can remember seeing the spit in her teeth and her stained teeth and the bad breath and just, like, hitting me in the face while she would slam my head. I had long hair, like, down to my shoulders. Like, looked like. Really did look like a little girl. She would grab me by my hair and bounce my head off the refrigerator. And she was doing all the same things to my sisters, you know. And at this point, like, my older sister, it was just. And my younger sister, they were just smoking weed together with all these adults at 10, 11, 12 years old. And so I start telling all this to Mondo. You know, I got a single mother, no father. I've got two sisters. Mom's abusive. I'm getting bullied at school. I was really. I was a really good student, straight A student, but I got in a lot of trouble and got bullied. And Mondo basically reciprocate or not reciprocates, but repeats all the same information back to me, where he grew up with a single mother who's abusive. He's got several sisters. He's a very smart kid. He was bullied. All of the things that I had told him, he mirrored. He mirrored right back to me whether it was true or not. I do believe most of it is true with the knowledge that I know now, but it's a common tactic. A lot of people. I'll let that slide. I think it was true. I think most of the things that he told me was true.

[B]

Because true or not, there's a reason why he mirrored it.

[A]

Yes. And if you haven't picked up on it now, yeah, this road's going down a pretty dark path, right? So on this one particular weekend, you know, Mondo, me and Mondo have this really deep conversation. And now, at 10 years old, the only person in. In my life who even begins to understand who I am or why I am the way that I am or whatever is this man. Right? He's the only person who understands me because he's been through exactly what I've been through. So you begin to have this deep level of trust and connection with that person, right? And I'm at his house Sunday. Sunday morning, we're getting ready to watch some, you know, football at noon or 1:00. And Jacob left to go get tacos down the street. And I was sitting on the couch, and I told Mondo I was cold, you know, and so he's like, well, why don't you sit on my lap? And he had a blanket. And so I get up in his lap and he's a big guy. Sit on his left leg. He's got his left hand on my left hip. Big, big hands. And his very calloused hands. I'll never forget what his hands feel like. Big calloused hands and long nails. His knuckles were so, like. Like big and dry and callous. Like, he would take them and rub them together and it would sound like rocks, and he would. It was like. Like one of these weird things he would always do. So I just. I just remember, like, hearing his knuckles. He'd always do that. But anyways, I'm sitting on his. On his lap, and he's got his left hand on my left hip. And I'm laying there in his chest, covered up in a blanket, nice and warm. And truth be told, I was so comfortable, man. I was like, I don't know if you have a father in your life, but the love of a father or of another man is something essential to men. Like, men need that. We need other men's love and affection and caring, especially young boys. And I'd never had that. I'd never in my life been held by another man. You know, I'd never been held or cared for or loved for by another man. And so when I laid there, I just felt so comfortable. And he was like a big dude. It was like a big pillow. And, you know, his left hand slips off my hip and hits me in the butt. And he says, I'm sorry. He says, my bad. I'm like, not a big deal. Like, I figured, like, if me and you bump each other in the hallway, it's not a big deal. And this is just a tactic. It's just testing the water and figuring out which. Where. When it gets too hot, you know. And so he puts his hand back on my butt and he says, so this is okay? And I just said, yeah, that's fine. You know, I. Not a big deal. It's okay. And right at that moment, I knew. I knew what was happening, which sucks to admit. But I knew it was happening. And it's.

[B]

Dude, you're a 10.

[A]

I know, I know. But it still sucks. And it's like being at the top of a roller coaster and you hear that last click, and you're about to go down. And, like, you're strapped in, though. Like, there's you. You can't get off this ride, and. And you're about to. And that's kind of how it feels. You're just like, I can't move. Like, I. What am I going to do? Like, I can't move. And so there's. There's like the flight or. Flight or freeze or whatever the hell, right. And I froze up, which is very typical. And then freezing is basically consent to those people, right? Because they know as soon as you freeze up or you don't reject or deny that approach that you've got them essentially, you know, and so you just push the limits further as much as you can. And the people that do this are very strategic. They're very manipulative. They're very. Most of the time, very patient, very calm.

[B]

I was going to say we're months in at this point.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And we hear the gravel turning outside. Jacob pulls in, and he moves his hand away. You know, we watch some football, eat some tacos, go home. And the very next thing that happens is very typical, is I gaslight myself. That didn't just happen. That. That wasn't supposed to happen or it's not going to happen again. You know, it's raining, and you're telling yourself it's not raining. You know, that's. That is gaslighting, and that's what you do. You know, if you slapped your wife right in front of me, it's like the bystander effect as well. It's almost like, whoa, what the hell? Like, that didn't just. That didn't just happen, did it? So then you're. You're just. It's like this consent. You just let this thing just happen. So anyways, begin to gaslight myself with that. And then as the months go on from this point forward, the abuse just progressed every single weekend, you know? And it was. It wasn't like first base, second base, third base. It was like one finger in the waistband, two fingers in the waistband, three, four, five. And it's just like inches. He's just like. It's a game of inches that they play. There's no big moves. There's nothing big and drastic. It's just slow, steady burn that they use. Okay. And when they're manipulating the child. They're not just getting that child. They're manipulating everybody around them. Their family, friends, all those things say all that to say as the abuse got worse. At some point, I was basically trapped. It feels like, you know, it's like if you're. You drink these waters every day, and then you pick a different water to drink, and somebody's like, well, what are you doing? Why are you not drinking that water? Is there something wrong with it? And then. So for me, I was hanging out with him so much. If I stopped hanging out with him because I. He was doing weird, people started asking me questions, right? And you just don't want those questions. You're just scared of that, and you don't want to explain yourself. You're just scared of that.

[B]

So where was Jacob while this was escalating?

[A]

So Jacob, he was on and off. He would be there some weekends. Some weekends he wouldn't be there. And that's, you know, after knowing him now. So I never tell the story this way, but I'll tell it now. He was sexually abused by the same man for sure, right. For several years prior to me. And I was not his escape. But when Jacob was older and got into high school and then started driving, he had friends that wanted to do shit on the weekends and he had girls. And so he just. That was it. He just stopped going because he finally found an escape route, I guess, and college ultimately ended up being his big escape. But that was basically it. And I was. I didn't have anybody to go to or to go to for anything. So I just. I kept going back to the guy's house.

[B]

Are you still in contact with him, Jacob? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Yep. I'll touch base on him a little bit later. But so, yeah, I keep going to his house, and the abuse keeps getting worse. You know, there's another. There was another big moment that. That kind of happens that really breaks the mold or the barrier, and it's really up because it's. It's incredible what you can do to people if you know how to manipulate people. It's just. Just. It's insane. And I remember standing in front of him one day watching football. Well, he had called me. He called me over to him. He's like, hey, why don't you come over here, you know, sit in my lap or whatever. And I go over to sit in his lap, and he kind of leans forward in his chair. It was just me there. And he grabs my shorts and he rips my shorts down. Shorts and underwear and he had not seen me naked at this point. And this is the first time I bend down, pick up my shorts and cover myself up, you know, and I'm crying. I immediately start crying because I'm embarrassed, like, what the hell just happened? I'm scared. And so he, what he, what he does is he pulls me and he hugs me and he holds me, says hey, what's wrong? Like what's, what's going on? Like I, I was just joking with you, I'm sorry if that made you upset. And I told him, I said, you know, that was embarrassing and I don't know, you know, this and that. And so what he had done was knowing full and well that he was the only person that could protect me in that moment. He exposed me, right, and broke me down because he was the only person that I could turn to. And it's this, it's a manipulative tactic that people will do. And that's what he, that's what he did. So then he held me and he told me how important I was to him. You know, he told me that I was the most important thing in the world and that how much he loved me and how depressed he was and how he wanted to kill himself and that he wouldn't kill himself because I was in his life. And so at 10 years old, I have like all this like weight on my shoulders of like this like emotional relationship that I have with this man, you know, and so now I have this pressure of like this, I'm the most important thing to this guy, you know, and, and so the, the, that's a very, you know, I guess, detailed, manipulative tactic. Another thing he would do is we had other adult friends. He never met my mom, he never met any of my family. I knew his family, I met his mom, met his sisters. I would go to his holidays, I'd go to his fourth of July's memorial days, Thanksgivings, Christmases. I met his whole, his sisters, their kids. He was like the 30 year old man showing up with a 10 year old, 11 year old kid at Christmas. And like nobody said anything.

[B]

Yeah, that's super odd.

[A]

Yeah. And nobody talked to me, you know, and I don't know that I would have said anything to tell him at the time because you're scared of denial, you know, and rejection and the guy was massive and imposing. And so what happens if they don't believe you? Like, is he going to kill you? You know, there's a lot of fears of that. But when we would hang out with our other adult friends. Like these just like random fucking people we knew. He would make comments towards me or about me. Like if we were sitting in a room just now and he would say, well, we got to go, you know, Seth's got to blow me tonight. Or. Yeah.

[B]

They were okay with that?

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

What are the odds now, looking back, that you think that they knew who he was and what he was up to?

[A]

They didn't know.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I don't think so. There's. I don't think so. They either didn't know or they're just as fucked up. And because those people had kids, like, I'm in a room with other kids.

[B]

Like, I could see that going both ways.

[A]

Yeah, right. I'm in a room with, like, other kids are with me watching football and like, whatever, eating dinner. And those kids. Parents are there and like. And he would just say it. I'm gonna go back and, you know, I gotta go back and Seth tonight. And I mean, no shit. Like, he was like, very. And the thing is, is imagine, like the fucking balls it would take to say that in front of somebody, let alone your family.

[B]

Not that it's better to say it in front of strangers, but.

[A]

Well, so he. He wouldn't say it in front of his family, but just these other adult friends that we have. Okay, gotcha. Right. So. But if you. If it's like. If I. Yeah, if you said that, there's no way in hell you're actually doing that. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

There's no way in hell that I would allow that comment to be made a second time.

[A]

Right. And. And that's part of the problem, okay, with reporting in regards to children. A lot of people don't want to say anything or report because Mondo was the best friend to everybody. He was funny. Everybody loved him.

[B]

I mean, that's how you hide in plain sight.

[A]

That's exactly what it is. It's a wolf in sheep clothing. That's. That's exactly what it is. And. And it's. It's. It's attack. That's what they do. It's what they do to hide. And that's the reason why anywhere there's kids, it's the Little League coaches, it's the guy in the church. It's the person that you never expect. We talked about statistics earlier. 78% of the time, it's somebody in your immediate household. Mom, dad, brother, sister. Over 90% of the time, it's somebody in your immediate circle of trust. Right? So, like 98% of the time. So, like, it's these people that are. That are closest to your kids because there's a level of trust and connection they have to the child. My. My. My daughter is going to. We talked about that earlier. You know, she's going to freak out if somebody else touches her, but if daddy does it, she's. She's going to be a little confused. But, like, it's Daddy. Like, she can trust daddy, right? So there's that. There's that. Here lies the problem, okay? And so they do that with their friends as well. They manipulate everybody around them. They got everybody believe in this facade that this guy's got on. And. And so at that point, like, what do you do when. When somebody's saying those comments about you in front of other people? Like, nobody's gonna believe me if I report at this point, you know?

[B]

And so at that point, you're the child in the room.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

The adults have to step forward and be adults.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And you're right. And you feel that as a kid, you feel like, you know, that your opinion doesn't matter. You know, when you come to the table and they're like, all right, all right, guys, get away. You know, so life goes on. So not only was I dealing with, like, Monday through Friday, basically the hell of being at home with abuse and drugs and violence, Saturday, Sunday, I was getting sexually abused by this man. And it just, you know, like I said, it's an. He's. It's a slow burn. He's slowly playing the game. Around 12 years old, I had basically experienced everything you can experience in the realm of sexual or sexual behavior. Like, everything. You know, there's some fucking haunting stories that I tell. You know, the guy was watching me, like, go through puberty, and he would make comments about that, like, he was so proud to see growing and hair and those kind of things. Like, he'd make those comments because eventually I start going back to his bed and sleeping with him. And in his bed, there's no clock. There was no, like, alarm clock back there. There's. And it was dark. It was all black. He had black blankets, black sheets, pillows. And so there was no frame of reference for time. It wasn't like, I got 45 minutes, and then I can be done. I got an hour or whatever. It's like I would be back there for ever. And I felt every minute of it. Like, it. It was no disassociation. There was no, like, putting somebody else there. And it was a. I. I can Just remember, like he would say weird shit to me. He was like telling me he loved me. I talk about it in the book of like the first moments of him like kissing me and dude, it's fucked up. And you know, he starts to perform oral sex on me. And 12 years old, I, you know, you know, I end up having a, I end up having an orgasm, my first orgasm at 12 years old. And this 30 year old man looks up at me and he's like, did you enjoy that? You know, and I'm like, what am I supposed to say? You know, I don't, I don't know. And I say yes. And the shit just keeps going on. So because he was performing things for me, he wanted it reciprocated. So it happens. And there's a lot of, lot of dark, twisted shit that I could tell you nonetheless. Or I keep that word. Doesn't I keep saying that word? I'm sorry.

[B]

I get what you're saying.

[A]

Yeah. So we.

[B]

Where is this now?

[A]

He's dead.

[B]

Please tell me. It was extremely long and painful. Like he accidentally lit himself on fire from his toes all the way up to his face. And it only burned a quarter of an inch at a time.

[A]

I wish, I wish that was the case. I'll wrap it up for you and then we'll, we'll, we'll continue a couple, couple, couple key elements here before we get to that. Well, big, big events. I guess so. So 12 years old, like I had experienced everything, right? And then one weekend I go home from his house is on a Sunday. I go to my neighbor's house. My sisters are watching Intervention, the TV show about like saving people from drugs, right? And at the end of every show there's contact information and my sisters and I are looking at each other and we're like, oh, we know somebody. Like, let's get mom on the show and see if we can help her. No shit. That day, walk outside and there's a fire in my front yard. Me and my sisters are immediately hysterical because we know something, something really fucked up is going on.

[B]

There's a fire in your fire. What was burning?

[A]

It's like a small fire, not massive, but it's like. What it was was a collection of like clothes and, and just like miscellaneous items. Yeah, My mom had gotten into a fight with her boyfriend in the bathroom over some drugs. Ended up stabbing him and setting his shit on fire in the front yard. So the cops were called, look on the front porch. Jamie's standing out there, like, white tank top on Blood all over the front of his chest and torso. Cops pull up, they grab my mom, throw her in the back of the car. I'm 12 years old, in the middle of the fucking street, looking at my mom in the back of this car. And despite all the bullshit that we've been through, like, that's my mom and I need her. She's the only, once again, the only person that I have. And I can't. I mean, I can't even talk to her. Like, I'm trying. I'm just. I remember being at that car and like trying to get through the window to her, and I'm just crying so hard. Like this visceral freaking emotion. Just. It was so painful. That was one of the worst days of my life. And I'm just crying and crying and crying. And then like the cop gets in the car and takes her away. We go in the house and this is a very long, very complicated and confusing story, but go in the house and like, people from, like, I don't even know how the fuck these people knew what was happening, but it seemed like everybody just showed up out of nowhere. My. My dad was there and my aunt and uncle were there, and just like random people started showing up. And the cops like, what are we going to do with the kids? So me and my sisters would go live with my dad for a little while. And while I was living out there, I got into a bunch of trouble, maybe because I was going through a bunch of crazy shit and the schools were threatening to arrest me. So I moved out of my dad's house. My sister stayed there. I moved back to the city, which is about 45 minutes away. And for the next about four to six months, I was like bouncing around different houses and just, you know, I'd live with one, one person, and they'd say, hey, we can't take care of you anymore. You got to go somewhere else. And so I was just like fucking ping ponging around, couch surfing, if you will. Yeah, basically at 12 years old, you know, and I'm. You're just surviving. That's all you're doing. You're just trying to make it to the next fucking day. Around Christmas time that year or just after Christmas, I get a phone call. I'm at these people's house and I get a phone call and it's my mom. And I don't know if she ever went to prison or jail. I don't know if she ever got in trouble. I have no idea what happened, but she was calling me. She Said, hey, I'm going to come and get you. Where are you at? And I was living with like a typical middle class family at this point. Mom and dad, kids, you know, whatever, and they were taking care of me. And I told my mom another one of the very hard moments of my life, ended up telling her, you know, I don't want to live with you anymore. And like, that's really fucking hard to say to your mother at 12 years old. And especially when you don't have any options of where you're going to go. And so she freaks out on the other end of the phone and she's like, fuck you. Like, you're my fucking son, you're my responsibility. I'm going to come and get you. Like, how dare you say that to me. This and that. I'm good now. I'm better now. Somehow my grandparents finally catch wind of what's going on and they, they find me and they come and pick me up maybe a week or two later because they were the closest thing to me that could adopt me. And so they come and pick me up, get back to grandma and grandpa's house. My sister's there, had no idea. And so I'm like, oh, like, once again, like, we finally made it out, right? We're like, we're finally good. My grandma asked to adopt me and my sisters. I said yes. My sisters initially did say yes. And then after about a two, three weeks of talking to my mom on the phone, pretty much every day, my mom manipulated them to go back and live with her. And, you know, this. A lot of people ask me, like, how did, how did Seth stay on this, like, straight and narrow path? There's a lot of answers I could probably give you, but truthfully, I, I think I have something in my body that is this level of resilience or grit or something in my character that I. Some people just don't have. I think some people have it, some people don't. And I think that's kind of what kept me from going down that path. On the same token, with that, this guy Mondo, as bad as he was in my life, he was arguably the best thing, one of the best things that's ever happened to me. And it's really fucked up. And this is what's so fucked up about sexual trauma and also combat PTSD or first responder ptsd. They're very similar and they're arguably two of the hardest to get over and to understand and to process. Reason being is because the person that sexually abuses you is likely somebody who's very close to you. It's likely somebody who made you serial, taught you how to throw a baseball, fucking did your homework with you. You know, somebody who's. You got these deep positive connections with combat ptsd. You know, the buddy that was killed is the guy that you were playing spades with, talking shit with, beating the hell out of. He's your best fucking friend. And so when you're trying to talk about this guy that you've lost in combat or even just you remember the good times. You remember the good times, like, oh man, that one time we're playing spades with so and so. And then it's like, man, that guy's not here no more and it hurts. And so sexual trauma and combat ptsd, they're very similar in that regard. When you're trying to process it because your brain has one memory, it remembers this person like it, you know, so you remember the good and the bad, and so it just you up really good. So, yeah, my. My grandparents, they. I said yes. My sisters end up leaving. They go back to my mom's house. I found out recently that when they did go back, my mom was living in a house that had no utilities. They eventually were bouncing around hotel to hotel, homeless essentially, with two little girls, and they would go to dealers houses and clean up the houses for either drugs or money. You know, I had no idea that was happening at the time. And it just breaks my heart for my sisters. I was with my grandparents and I truthfully, like, I stayed with my grandparents because they had money. Like, my grandpa retired from Ford. My grandma was running her own business, and I had warm freaking meals and a bed to sleep in and big house, nice cars. I was like, no longer this poor kid, you know, but unfortunately, so to kind of. I guess I skipped over a small piece of what I was saying with. With Mondo being one of the. Maybe the best things that happened was he guided me through a lot of this, like, maybe out of his own ill intent of being connected to me or I don't know, but he was like, you know, stay with your grandparents, you know, and even about a year or so later after the adoption went through, like, I got visitation with my mom and I went and saw my mom for the first time in like a year. I went home that night and I cried because I felt like I betrayed my mom. You know, I needed to go back and live with her. And I felt horrible and like I missed her and I loved her and I cried all night long in My bed. And I. And I hated my grandparents. I hated. I resented my grandparents so bad because of you. Once again, like I said earlier, I had that victim mentality of like, you don't know what I've been through kind of thing. And so you just, just. You just hate everybody, especially when people are happy. You just don't even understand, like, how you happy. Like, you man, like, I don't even. So you don't even know what that word means. And I remember my grandma made me a birthday cake when I was 13. I came home from school, she made me a birthday cake and sung Happy Birthday to me. And I remember coming home and being like. Like, you. Like, I'm not. I'm not a fucking kid. Like, I'm not a kid. Like, you don't have to do it. Don't treat me like a kid. Don't treat me like a baby. And I called Mondo and I said, like, my man, my grandma, man, like, he's like, she did this and this. Like, I'm not a fucking kid. And he told me straight up, he's like, would you rather come home and her beat the fuck out of you or care about you enough to make you a fucking cake? And so he changed my mindset a lot, you know, of treating my grandparents better. He coached me a lot through school and bullying and like, all these different things for the good or the worst, I don't know. But it did help me. I mean, he. He did put me on that path. And that's why sexual trauma, like I said, is so fucked up. Because these people that have such good plans for you, they have just as bad likely. You know, I don't think he had.

[B]

Good plans for you, man. I think he was doing everything he possibly could to keep you in his sphere of control.

[A]

Yeah, that's probably a better way to put it. Not good plans was a. Was a bad choice of words.

[B]

But he legitimately, I see what you're saying. I mean, legitimately, there are. There are aspects of your life that he helped you through.

[A]

Right.

[B]

My suspicion. And that's all that it is. Your hypothesis would be that he was doing that so you would stay in his life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was trying to help you in yours. So you would fill the role that he would want for you in his.

[A]

Right. Yeah. And there's like that level of dependency that you have. You know, it's like, like quid pro quo kind of thing where, like, he did this for me. He did this for me.

[B]

Yeah. Nothing he did, but again, total suspicion Hypothesis. I don't think anything he did was accidental. It sounds like an incredibly accomplished predator.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. And so, you know, around 13 years old go back to, you know, well, so some let me back up here at my grandparents house and when I first got there, I tell him, I said, well, I have this friend that I want to go hang out with, you know, and because I was still defending the guy, he was still calling me all the time, I was still calling him. And so he was kind of putting that in me, like, hey, when are we gonna hang out again? So I tell my grandparents and my grandparents, they know what happened to me when I was five when I was molested. And so, and they know my whole history of childhood and so they're like no. And I tell them like, he's not like that. I defend him, I do all the things. And so they say, well, we want to meet him. So he shows up at the house, he makes my grandparents laugh. And this is like the first time he'd ever met anybody from my family. So now it went from me going to his house all the time, now he's at my house all the time for all of my holidays. Now Seth was the kid with the older friend versus the inverse, you know, so he made my grandparents laugh. You know, he came over and told him, I know Seth's had a hard life and you know, I've just been trying to help him and hang out. And I know Jacob and my grandparents knew Jacob and, and, and they, you know, he, he was in back in the saddle. And shortly after that, unfortunately, you know, I won't get into the details of it, but he, he rapes me for the first time. I was 13 years old, he rapes me. I remember it all happening and you know, we, he gets done and I go back to his bathroom and I'm sitting on the toilet and I'm just crying and I'm just thinking to myself, like my life is over. Like I don't have a mother, I don't have a father. I just have now been raped. I can't say anything to anybody because many, many reasons. Some of them being people are going to think I'm gay, they're going to think I'm weird, they're going to make fun of me. What if I have AIDS or. I didn't know how they knew that work, but I was scared of having AIDS or hiv. I was so scared of so many things, man. And I was sitting there on that toilet crying and crying and crying and I Get up, I take a shower, I walk out. I walk back out and I put a smile on, and I keep playing the game. And it goes on for almost three more years. I was up at his house one weekend. I was a month away from being 16, and I had a younger friend that would hang out with me and go to his house. And this kid, now this kid, he was only allowed to go if I was there. His parents would not let him go alone. And so me and this kid are hanging out up there, and he was having a bad day, and this was like a Friday night, I think. And he makes a comment towards my friend. He says, hey, if you're having a bad day, I can take you back in the bed and blow you. And I'm playing a video game on the computer when he says this. And we laugh it off. We all laugh it off. And Mondo takes my friend back in his bed. And this is the first time in almost six years that I had ever seen anybody else go back there other than Jacob when we initially started hanging out. And, you know, just to be clear, too, like, the audacity that these people have, I would go back in that guy's bed, and we would have people over, like, in a studio, like, where there's just a curtain separating us. We're 15ft apart, and this guy's, like, molesting me in his bed with other people out in the other room playing video games, having a good time. So there's so many nights where I spent back in that guy's bed with my friends out in the living room, playing games, eating pizza, drinking pop. And I'm back here, like, going through hell. And I saw my friend go back there, and I was like, we're not doing this. And I. I message. I'm playing a video game. And I message Jacob on the video game. This is. I usually don't tell the story the way that I will, but I message Jacob on the video game. And on the video game, when you. When you direct message somebody, it pops up in a different color chat. And it's very visible, like, you know, when you see it. So I messaged him. I said, hey, I need to talk to you Sunday when I get home. And he's. And all he says back to me is, okay. And that was it. As soon as I say that, for some weird reason, like, Mondo comes out of the room. And I didn't see him initially. I was looking at the computer screen. It's dark, so your peripheral is not there. And I see him like, at the very last second, I scrolled up in the chat to try to hide the message, you know, I think Mondo saw it because the whole mood changed that whole weekend. And if he would have seen that I had messaged Jacob, he would have known, like, my cover is blown or something's wrong or something's off. You know what I'm saying? They're very, very smart. And I. I'll get back to why I think he saw it. The whole mood changed, and he was just like. Just. I felt like he was going to kill me. And I may have just been paranoid, you know, but, I mean, the whole. The rest of the weekend that I was there, I was just, like, watching the door. Like, I'm like, do I run? What do I do? Like, how, you know, what am I going to do to get home? Because I was. I was scared. I thought, he's going to kill us. That was a Friday night. I don't think anything happened to my friend. They weren't back there for very long. But then the next night, unfortunately, he ends up raping me again. And, you know, that had happened several times over the course of the years. But Saturday night, that happens. Wake up in the morning. Sunday we go home. I get to my house. Mondo drops me off. He's got my friend, so he takes my friend home. My friend lives in the city. And Jacob shows up at my house like, an hour later. Jacob's in college at this point, you know. And so we go to my bedroom, and we're pacing back and forth in my bedroom, and I'm just telling Jacob, like, hey, man, I've been wanting to tell you this for a long time. I don't know how to say this. And I'm just scared. And, like, I just don't know what to say. And I'm. And that's all. I keep repeating myself. I'm pacing back and forth, back and forth. And I cannot say it. I cannot admit anything. I can't, you know, get to the point. And Jacob's standing there quietly, and he just says. He breaks the silence. And he's like, mondo touched you, didn't he? And I fell apart. I. You know, 16 years of, like, just pain had. Was leaving my body. I just fell to the floor. And I remember just, like, laying there, like, so cold and, like, I just felt like I was melting and, like, punching the floor and punching the floor and crying. And a few seconds later, Jacob's like, well, he did it to me, too. And I had no idea, you know, I had no clue. And I turn and I look at him, and I'm just like, every bit of pain that I had felt, I was just like, what the man? Like? And I feel horrible for him because Jacob was the closest thing that I had to a big brother to, like, any kind of, like, father figure in my life, you know? So that guy that, like. Like, whatever man that you look at that, like, that guy's untouchable, whether it's your brother or your father, that just doesn't happen to him, like, that's your dad. They don't happen. Your dad didn't go through like that, right? And so that's how I looked at Jacob. And so to. To know that it happened to him, I was blown away. I had no idea. And so Jacob says to me, what do you want to do about it? And I said, well, I said, this guy, we have to report him, because he's about to start doing it to my younger friend. You know, we go out in the living room. I got a flushed face. You know, my grandma knows something's wrong. And we're sitting out there, and Jacob or my grandma asked like, what the hell's going on? And Jacob's kind of looking at me, and I can't say it again. And my grandma or Jacob says, you know, it's Mondo. And as soon as he says that, they know. And my grandma, I could just see her, like, my baby. My baby, you know, like, oh, my God. Crying. And I go over to her to comfort her, and I'm holding her, and she's crying, and I'm crying, and I'm just apologizing, you know, because I'm like, I let this guy in the house. I told you nothing was wrong with him. I hid the secret. I. I lied for him. I protected him. And I felt horrible. I knew it wasn't my fault. Like, I was a very smart kid. I knew it wasn't my fault. But, like, you. You just. I don't know what you say. I don't know what to say, you know, so, you know, so I'm just crying and holding my grandma. And, you know, that. That really hurts talking about her, just because unfortunately, she's not here anymore. And I just. I wish she was, because she would see the things that I'm doing now with my story, you know, and see the impact that I'm making. But that really hurts to tell her or to. To be there and in that moment with her. So my grandpa, my. My friend Jacob and I, we go down, we call the police, and we go to the hospital to do the report. We get down there and, you know, we get set up in the nurse's office. This police officer walks in. His name's Chad Couples from Bluffton, Ohio. He walks in, I see his last name, and I'm like, couples is your wife so. And so. And he's like, yeah, that's my wife. So his wife was actually my teacher, like, five years, six years prior, which is really crazy.

[B]

Small townsman.

[A]

Yeah, small. Yeah, I mean, I guess. Yeah, I guess. And. And what's. You know, I had met the guy before because she would. He was a. He was a veteran. He was a Afghan and Iraq veteran. And so she would bring him in on, like, Veterans Day or Memorial Day, you know, and so she'd bring him in. So I'd already met the guy. So when I saw him, I recognized him. And it's hard to explain, like, the coincidence of all this, but two weeks prior, two or three weeks prior, he had graduated from the, like, sexual victim abuse course of reporting or whatever. The. You know. So then he's sent to my case, and he walks in. And I just had this level of trust and confidence in him because I guess maybe I knew him or whatever. So then I have to sit down across from another man at 15 years old and tell him. He tells me. He says, seth, you know, the more you tell me now, the less we're gonna have to do later. You know, just. I know this is gonna hurt, but, like, let's tear this band aid off and let's do this. You know, and not his exact words, but some summation of it all. And I. I pour it all out. I tell them the worst that ever happened to me, and the fullest, the most descriptive detail. And so we get done with all that. We go back in the nurse's office, and the nurses are saying, like, hey, Seth, do you have any dirty clothes or do you have anything that you've worn to his house recently that we can get DNA off of or, you know, take or whatever? And I tell the nurses, like, you know, this just happened 15 hours ago, and I haven't changed my clothes and I haven't taken a shower because when he went. When he took my friend back there that night, I did not know that. I didn't know what was going to happen to me the rest of the weekend, but I knew that I was going to report him. And so when it. When I. When I did go back there and he did what he did to me that that weekend I knew like, this is it. Like, I'm getting this motherfucker, and I'm like, this is it. You know? And when I said that. When I said that I had not taken a shower and I had his clothes on, the silence in the room was, like, deafening. It was like, everybody's like, what the fuck? You know, and, like, take your clothes off. Like. Like, let's get this shit. And. And test me. And they swab me, and they do all the things. They're really, really proud of me. And, you know, Chad ends up going back and going. Going up to arrest Mondo. I go home that day, didn't hear anything else. You know, maybe like a month later, two months later, I hear that Mondo accepts a plea deal. He. He was sentenced with 11 felony counts of childlike misconduct and some other charges, and he accepts a plea deal. He's charged with four counts. He was sentenced to 10 years in prison for 10 years, about 10 years of abuse between me and Jacob.

[B]

Did Jacob report him as well?

[A]

Yep. Jacob actually went to the hearing because he was an adult and read a letter saying that this wasn't enough time, and they didn't give a. And that was in 2011. So he'd be free today to do whatever the he wants to do. Fortunately enough, and fortunately enough, he died in 2019 in prison. He's about a year away from getting out. And he died. So how'd he die? Staff infection. They said, yeah.

[B]

God, I hope it hurt.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Have you ever had the conversation with Jacob as to whether or not he knew you were being abused before you told him?

[A]

Yeah. So in March or April of 24, I ran an ultra marathon. It was one of my ultras that I ran. And Jacob drove down to crew me for it. He lives in North Carolina now, so he drove down to Georgia to crew me for it. And I always thought that Jacob had, like, a normal life, like, a very normal, like, vanilla life before I knew him. I never knew about his childhood before I met him. And so he came down and like, kind of told me his whole story, and that's his story to tell. And it's fucked up. It's very fucked up. And we had that conversation. He didn't. He didn't know. You just. You just don't imagine it could happen to anybody else like you did. That's a fair point.

[B]

Yeah, he did, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know this person at all. And I say this without judgment, but I wish he would have done for you what you did for that Other kid. Yeah, because what you described, I don't. I don't have the vocabulary to describe what it feels like to sit here and hear that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it sucks, dude. It sucks. And. And there's. It's happening right now. Like, it's happening. It's happening here, it's happening two blocks away from here. You know?

[B]

How do we stop it? Better question or maybe a more realistic question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it possible to stop it?

[A]

I don't think so, because it happens more in the house and it happens more with people, you know, and, man, that's just. The people are up. Some people are just up and they get up and then hurt people, Hurt people. And it's just this perpetual cycle. And I think, you know, I want to stop it, but I think my effort, my focus is to help people get through it and get over it, you know, because it's going to happen.

[B]

Well, I mean, so you. So he. Mondo got sentenced when you were 15. I mean, so you still had to have finished high school, graduate high school. You went into the military.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Have you. Well, let me ask you this. Do you feel like. I don't know whether to ask. I don't know the way to ask this. Do you feel like you have worked through what happened to you?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

How were you able to do that and when did that occur?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, man, that's a great question. So.

[B]

Because you've had a lot of life between then.

[A]

Yeah. So it came in stages. Okay. Everybody sees me for who I am now, and they're like, damn, that's like, how do you do this without falling apart and whatever, you know, it comes in stages and it takes a lot of fucking work. And. And like we talked about earlier, I ran from all of that shit forever. Like 29 years. I ran. Well, not 29, 15 years. I guess I ran from it, you know, didn't. Because. And I was fortunate enough that when I reported him, it was all under the table because I was a minor, so my name was never put in the. In the. In the releases or nothing. If they would have been, I would have killed myself. I would have 100.

[B]

Because of the exposure.

[A]

Yes. There's no way in hell I could have survived. You know, I give a lot of people credit for the strength and the. The brotherhood to like that I had. Of building that effort to report. I had a wrestling coach and a wrestling team to be a part of, and I give them a lot of credit for it. But anyways, the healing came in stages, okay? When I was. So I joined the army initially. Joined because I wanted girls, and I thought that if I put on this uniform and dog tags.

[B]

Panty droppers.

[A]

Yeah. And it just.

[B]

You needed to join the Marines for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those classes are sharp.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And really different job, but they're sharp.

[A]

Yeah. And what's funny is I joined the Reserves as a mechanic, thinking that I was, like, an infantry killer because I thought that everybody was like, hey, you want to shoot shit and bush? I'm like, yeah. And so I was in the Reserves from. I joined when I was 17. And so I was in the Reserves until I was, like, 19 or 18. 19. Right after high school. I ended up going active duty, signed an 18x contract. So. Which is the Special Forces, like, recruit shit. Bunch of funny stories there. Getting kicked out of Airborne school, which is what nubbed my SF career, which I wouldn't have made it anyways because I was a fucking shitbag, but not.

[B]

With that attitude, sir.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I got kicked out of airborne school, went to Fort Stewart, Georgia. And when I was in the army, especially when I joined the infantry, like, I was full on, like, America mode. Like, at that point, I was, like, very proud of serving my country. It wasn't, like, for anything other than to serve my country. I was very proud of what I was doing. But during that time, you know, I eventually became a team leader. Let's see. Went to Fort Bragg. Well, so I met my wife at Fort Stewart, Knew her for six months, got married, didn't tell anybody for seven months, went to Fort Bragg. We got married just so she could come to Bragg with me. And right before my daughter was born, that's when I started going through my healing process. So I was 24, and my daughter was about to be born, and I was about to go to Afghanistan, and my daughter. Daughter's baby shower. Oddly enough, Jacob was there. And Jacob approached me, and he kind of asked me, because me and him were like two peas in a pod at this point. We're, like, just super connected. And he asked me about my finances and just to make sure everything was okay. And. And I was like a typical young, stupid soldier with, like, $60,000 of debt.

[B]

Hell, yeah.

[A]

You know, all that. You know, new wife, new house, fucking, all the fucking things, right? And. And due to the nature of my childhood, I had no financial literacy. I was just. Just, you know, whatever. Everything's $15 a month, so you just finance everything. And so he. He asked me about that, so I kind of did all my Healing backwards. I. I fixed my, like, finances first, which is a big deal. It takes a lot of stress off of you. Yeah, right. So I fixed that. We got out of debt, but then I went to Afghanistan, and I went to Afghanistan with Fort Brad, deployed with 82nd, and I was a team leader. And so that was really hard because our deployment was very easy. Fortunately enough had no direct action. We took some rockets here and there, but nothing crazy. With that being said, my deployment, like, fucked me up because, man, with a combination of, like, leaving my wife and daughter, my newly born daughter at home, being a team leader in the 82nd, which is a. A massive ego place. The. The Fort Bragg in general, just so clicky and ego driven I was, or so it seemed. And that might have just been my own insecurities, but I was a man leading men with all my. You know, and I just. I can't tell these guys this, that I've been through. Like, I'm their team leader, you know, and they're gonna. These guys are gonna judge me. They're gonna tell other people, they're gonna make fun of me. And so I was dealing with this, like, massive identity crisis. I was the Bulldog team leader. My. My platoon sergeant was a former Ranger guy for, like, 16 years. And so he told me, fucking fuck these guys up. And like, be that. Be the Bulldog and just, you know, do the right thing, but just be aggressive. And he loved me for it, you know, but that's who I was. And so I was this guy, big dude, like, strong, freaking, trying to be this man in the infantry. And all the while, I was dealing with this, like, massive insecurity and identity crisis, essentially.

[B]

Let's not forget the suitcases and duffel bags full of trauma from your childhood.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's the reason. Yeah, because of all that, right? So we went to Afghanistan, man, I was struggling fucking bad. And right before we left, I read extreme ownership, which really helped me as a leader. I read that. And that's actually what kind of changed my mindset from being like, it's everybody else's fault to, you know, owning the fucking shit, you know, that you're going through or that you're dealing with. And so that did help me as a leader, but I only applied extreme ownership to my military, like, service. Like, my only my guys, nothing in my personal life. So we got through Afghanistan, and I always tell people, like, if I would have experienced any kind of direct action, I would not be here. Like, I. I think everybody's got some bandwidth. They've only got so much and I'm about out of it. And I tell people all the time, if I experience another traumatic event in my life, check on me because I got, I'm very low and so got back from Afghanistan. My son was born and then we were living in a two bedroom apartment. I'm getting ready to get out of the military, which is stressful enough. I've got two kids and a wife to take care of. I'm trying to figure out my civilian transition. And then. So that was when life had really, really taken a bad turn just because of all the stressors. My childhood trauma had come back in a really weird way. I began to like really hate and resent my wife, like deeply, deeply. Like I talked about when we first started where it didn't matter what she did. I'd be pissed off at her for something. I didn't like the way she worked out. I didn't like the way she did this, raised the kids. I didn't like the way she, that she was a mother. She raised my kids with like love and affection and nurturing. Where I had a two year old and a newborn that I was trying to like, toughen up, you know.

[B]

How much did she know about your past?

[A]

She knew, she knew all the. She knew all the basics of it, of everything that had happened to me until I.

[B]

When did you decide to tell her those things?

[A]

Quick. I told. Yeah. And this is. I give my wife so much credit because I told her a month into our relationship.

[B]

Do you think she understood?

[A]

No. Yeah.

[B]

I was going to say the depths of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How much it impacted you.

[A]

No, because, dude, I could give my wife so much credit for this because when I met her. Well, first off, I did the typical thing of first night. You know, first hot girl that I meet, I'm like, I'm gonna marry you. And you actually verbalize that. Yes.

[B]

You are a retard.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's like, okay. So, you know, lucky you didn't see.

[B]

Smoke coming out from her shoes as she went the other direction.

[A]

Yeah, I am lucky because, you know, like a month later I tell her like some of the shit that I had gone through as a kid and just, just the top waves like, you know, I was sexually abused and mom and this. Don't have a family.

[B]

Why'd you decide to bring it up with her?

[A]

She's the first girl I ever dated. I'd never had a girlfriend before and man, I don't know, there was something about her. I, I thought I was going to marry her. And that was probably because this is the first girl I ever dated. But I told her, it was almost like. It was almost like, get away from me. It's like. And I told her, I said, I'm up, just so you know. I said, if you want to be with me, like, I'm fucked up, and I got a lot of up shit. And she. She's like, what do you mean? And I told her, she's like, why would I give a fuck? You know? She's like, what's that got to do with me?

[B]

And it's not having to do with her. Input. Informs. Output.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

So.

[A]

Well, the. I. I give her so much respect for that because she didn't, like, care. Like, she was just like, I love you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like your past, it doesn't matter to me. Like, it is what it is. Like, I love you.

[B]

I'm not so sure you might. You were past it at that point.

[A]

No, that's.

[B]

Because that's what you're about to say. Like, you're past it.

[A]

Right? Yeah. No. Yeah. No, and I wasn't. And that was my point was telling her was like, if you. You know, I got a lot of bags I'm bringing with me, just so you know, that's kind of the point. And I. And it's a. A lot of people do that because it's a. It's a way of telling somebody to get away from me. You know, if I tell you all the problems that I have, it's like, you don't want these problems. Trust me. You know, and she. She just didn't even care. Yeah. Or, you know, she's still with me now, so. But we had our initial, like, two years of puppy dog love kind of thing of marriage. Right. But. But when I got back from Afghanistan, that's when everything started going kind of south in our marriage, where I became. I became the abuser that I had dealt with for so many years. The manipulative person that I. That I had dealt with for so many years via my mom or Mondo. Right. I. I was just super manipulative towards my wife for the next. Oh, God, two years or so. Two or three years. Just. I would come home because once I got out of the army, I would come home from work, wouldn't talk to her for two, three, four days in a row. I mean, I'd come home and just not say a word to her. Talk and play with my kids, hang out with my kids, but I would just treat my wife like shit. And I Tried to divorce her multiple times. I mean, I literally told her, like, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, I want a divorce. I want to get out of this. I'm tired of this shit. I couldn't love her. I couldn't touch her. I couldn't hold her hand, couldn't give her a kiss, couldn't give her a compliment. She would get dressed and come out, you know, and stand in front of me, you know, in the way that women do where they're like, hey, like, I got dressed. Like, it's time to compliment me. And I knew that's what she was doing.

[B]

Did she. Did she give you the trick question? How do I look?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

There's only one answer for anybody listening to this. It doesn't fucking matter what they look like. You look fantastic is the answer.

[A]

Right? And, you know, and I would just look at her like, you look good. Whatever. I would just give her this, like, get the out of my face, you know? And the reason I did is I knew what she wanted, you know, I knew she wanted the compliments. And so there's like, the misery, love comp. Loves company kind of thing. Like, it feels good to be like, yeah, now you're on my level. Because, like, if I treat you like, you're gonna be miserable just like me. And now you know what it feels like, you know, I resented my wife because, you know, she's got a mom and a dad. Her dad's a very successful GC in the Southeast. She's got brothers and brother and sisters and grandma and grandpa and family and love. And I don't have any of those things, you know? And so there's only one way to.

[B]

Describe the situation that you were in. You were wallowing in your own self pity.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And. And. And. And she stayed with me throughout the whole process. Right? So fix my. Fix my finances. Fix my leadership in the military and just as a. As a man and in work and stuff in general. And then the personal healing came this year or. Well, I guess 2024. About January. 2024. I had a conversation. It was January. January or February. Who. I had a conversation with a friend. And what was important about this, now that I think about it, is I reached out to him for help versus him just giving me unsolicited advice. Right. Unsolicited advice likely will land you nowhere.

[B]

Hence the unsolicited.

[A]

Yeah, right. But you. But you feel like, man, I got all this. I have all this stuff I want to give you.

[B]

People have to Be ready to receive.

[A]

Exactly. And so for me, people had given me advice my whole life, right? And I would just be like, ah, you don't understand. Right. And I finally was like, you know what, I'm just gonna ask this guy for some help. And so as my buddy, his name's George. And what happened was I was actually bitching about my wife and I was like, you know, my wife does this and she, she does this and she, she's not like motivated because I'm, I'm like super motivated. Like want to whatever, crush everything. Crush it at work. Be the best performer at work. Which I, which I was, you know, I wanted to just be the best everywhere in life. And I wanted to wake up at four in the morning and, and work until midnight because that's what you have to do to be successful, you know?

[B]

Is it though?

[A]

No, but, but that was like the, that was the person, you know, get it?

[B]

There's a whole eco that sells that as the path of success.

[A]

Right. And I, and I was fully into that, you know, and I would get mad about my wife not staying up until 11 o'clock to do the laundry, you know, and so I would do the chores, I would do the dishes and the house chores. Not for her, but in spite of her to say, like, look, I'm working a full time job, I work out in the morning, I do jiu jitsu and I still have time to do this.

[B]

It sounds like you were being an insufferable cunt.

[A]

Yes, yes. And when I approached my buddy about this, he basically reiterated that, that to me. He's like. Because I was fully expecting him to be like, damn, bro, your wife sucks. And he was like, bro, he's like, it's. You married a woman, man. Like, back the up. She's not a soldier, she's not your buddy. She's a woman. And this is, and let me tell you something, this is what they want. Not, not this other that you're doing well, you know. And, and so when I had that conversation with George, I actually went home. Like, no, went home that weekend. And I made the conscious, this is, this is where people fuck up. I made the conscious decision to fucking be better and to do better. And it's a fucking decision, man. It's a, there's a process to it.

[B]

Yeah, like you have with the decision though.

[A]

Yes. It takes repetition, it takes fucking. It's a skill. It's, it's like this development that you, that you go through, but it, it's a fucking decision that you make. To wake up. To choose to be grateful, to choose to be positive. To choose to text your wife and tell you that you love her. And, you know, and he saved my marriage. I mean, he saved my marriage, saved my life earlier.

[B]

That and the fact it seems like you're married to a rock star.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Let's be honest.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The only reason that marriages survive is because women are willing to tolerate our.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, dude.

[B]

And some more than others.

[A]

And you know what's crazy is, like, my wife has no reason to tolerate my shit. She's fucking hot.

[B]

And she sees something in you that makes it worth it.

[A]

Yes, she does. But I would always be so hateful towards her because, like, especially when my son was born, I really was close to killing myself. And because I knew she had family and her family had money and they would be good without me. Like, they're gonna be okay. So you justify it. You know, there's all these reasons why you justify a divorce or whatever it is. And, you know, leaving somebody is so fucking easy. Like a divorce. If my wife would have walked away from me, I probably would have taken my life. That's probably where my mind was going was like, if I get away, get alone, I can do this. But. Because I would have dreams and visions of my wife and kids coming home and seeing me, you know? And I could hear them screaming. And I could see the funeral. And I could see. What's so powerful about that vision is, like, now everybody knows. Like, now everybody knows that Seth was going through something. Right. Because if you don't tell anybody, nobody knows. And then next thing you know, bam, you're dead. And everybody's like, what the happened? You know?

[B]

And all they wish, at least in my personal experience, would have been for you to say, I need help.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Literally, I have. You know what's funny? I've never been turned down a single time in my life when I've asked for help.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've been shocked every time about how willing people are to provide it. Human beings have a lot of skills. I am not aware of anybody who has the ability to read minds.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Even though they will sell you that on the Internet or on tarot cards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or in crystal salesmen or whatever the fuck it may be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody knows what's going on behind the mask.

[A]

Yeah, it's hard. And it's. Man, it's so hard. It's just so hard. And, yeah, I just pushed her away and pushed her away. And when I would tell her, like, I didn't want to be with her. I mean, she literally told me, like. Like, I'm not fucking leaving. Like, fuck you. Like, yeah. You know, I would tell her that I go to the gym for two hours. Like, I just told her I wanted a divorce. I'd go to the gym for two hours and then come back and have the conversation, like, which is really fucked up. And then I'd get back and we'd talk it out, and I told her a lot of times, like, I have two people on my shoulders. Like, I have a shoulder. I have this person that's like, when I get home, they're like, hey, man, walk in, hug your wife, tell her you love her. And then as soon as I walk in, this other guy's like, man, her dude. And treat her like, you know.

[B]

And so everybody probably has those to a degree.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Maybe the volume isn't turned up equally on both.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. But I think. I think most human beings are defined by their similarities, not their differences.

[A]

Well, that's a good point, because. But when you're looking for help, you feel so alone and, like, nobody knows what I'm going through. And so many times when I tell my story, people are like, oh, my God, that's a. You know, that's exactly what I was going through. And I've had all the worst feelings in the world of whether it was killing myself. I mean, I've had dark thoughts, holding my children. You know, I've had thoughts of holding my son, thinking of just ending it all, you know, with him.

[B]

Are you past those thoughts?

[A]

Yeah, I don't have them, like, every single day. Like, during that time, that really, really heavy time in the. And when I was getting out of the army, I would think about him like, oh, my God. It was. It was just like. I couldn't even breathe. It was crazy.

[B]

Have you sought professional help as well?

[A]

I've never been to therapy.

[B]

How come?

[A]

Well, as a child, I rejected it a little bit. I was. There was no, like, push for it. They were like. My grandparents took me to see a psychologist, like, once. Once or twice when I reported my abuser. I should have gone through an entire crime victim services, like, rehab thing that they have now, and they likely had then, but it was never. It was never pursued or brought upon me. And I think that as a child, I wish somebody would have advocated it for me because I. I would have been able to unpack it, you know, and get through it. And part of it was. This is another beautiful thing that Tom sadly talks about is I would look At a therapist and say, you don't know you how you want to tell me, right? And your child, your therapist doesn't have to go through trauma. Your therapist doesn't have to see combat. They know how your brain works.

[B]

Yeah, that's what they specialize.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So, so why don't you go talk to them?

[A]

Well, now it's a time and money fucking. It's a time and money thing. And, and so it's expensive and it's time. And so what I did earlier this year. So after talking to George, I went and read a few books. So there's two books by Dr. Bruce Perry. He's like, in my opinion, the best child therapist guy out there. He's just got two incredible books. One of them is called what happened to you? And the other one is the Boy who was Raised as a Dog. And he just talks about childhood trauma, how it affects you and all these different things. Right. And those two books were 20 bucks a piece. I read $40 worth of knowledge and changed my life. Like it just, it, it reframed the way that I looked at myself, that I looked at trauma, how, how much it affected me. And then I needed to admit that and acknowledge that. But that's what I do now. So I, I, I find myself, I think therapy would help. It's just expensive and time consuming. So I enjoy reading the books. I enjoy listening to stories. When you're listening to somebody else's story specifically speak, you don't have to think about your own. You can just kind of process what they're saying. And that's what I found so powerful. There are so many people, like I said, Tom Clark, Tom De Blas actually is one of them, who's got a really cool story. I listen to his as well. That really helped me. When you're listening to somebody else's story, you don't have to process the logic and the emotions in your own head. You can just listen and they will likely say the words that you are missing. Because when you're thinking about, if I ask you, like, what happened to you, right, and then you say, well, how does that make you feel? Or how did you survive? That's why so many people can't come up with the. So part of the reason why people, in my opinion, can't come up with the answers of how they survived is because when you ask them what happened, they're thinking about like these, these literal steps of, of what happened. And they, there's so much emotion with it. They can't, they can't figure out, like, how did I actually survive that or what did help me or how do I phrase this? And so when you listen, for me, when I listen to somebody else's story, I'm like, damn, like, that's exactly how I felt. That's exactly what I was doing. Or that's what I am doing. So, yeah, you know, I, I don't, I don't knock therapy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Although there are a lot of bad therapists out there, all that.

[B]

But you can apply that to any profession. And again, it's. As long as you find the tool that works for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who's to say what is right or what is wrong?

[A]

Yeah, dude, that's.

[B]

I mean, that story is tough to listen to, obviously. What do you hope to achieve with your public speaking in the book?

[A]

So, you know, the obvious would be like a path to hope and healing and overcoming adversity for people. And hopefully my story starts that chain that somebody else's story started for me to help, you know, get people out there and understanding it's okay to, you know, go through all this. And, you know, part of my story is the fact that I've accomplished, I've accomplished quite a bit of my life despite only being 30. You know, I served in the military for nine years, run a bunch of ultra marathons, ran 100 mile race in June, which, I don't know, just to say you've ran 100 miles, I think it's cool. But when people are like, they hear your story and, and there's a reason why I ran 100 miles, you know, it's just, it's not like to run from my demons or whatever the is to show people, like, dude, you can go and do incredible. You can do whatever the fuck you want to do. Like, the shit doesn't define you.

[B]

Well, not only that, but most people can do whatever they want to in life if they can get past the obstacles that they put in front of themselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everybody wants, oh, I can't do this because this person did that. Dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Figure out a way around it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And if I'm being totally honest and I say this based off my experience as being a BUDS instructor and watch people watching them for a year and a half surrender their dreams.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's. So people want to say, well, this person made me quit, or that made me quit. And it's, no, you made the choice to quit because you told yourself you couldn't do anymore. And the reality is that all happened between your ears. I can't make you quit as an instructor. I will do my best to provide the environment where you make that decision, but I can't do it for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sucks.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Because that means you don't get to outsource the agency over what happens to you in life.

[A]

Right? Yeah. I mean, you control what you can control.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And that's. That's. And the only thing you control is what you do, what your own actions, your own thoughts, like, even what you survived. Right.

[B]

Which is horrendous and I think would break the vast majority of people. You're not responsible for what happened to you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you are responsible for what you do with it.

[A]

Yeah. You know, so. So part of what I want to do with my story, and you see this a lot with the victim and the survivor world, is you sit across from a victim or survivor of some sort of trauma or abuse. Like I talked about earlier with the cancel culture, when people come to me and they want help, I'm like, do you want help? Or do you want to, like, say you want help? And I'm not trying to be. I'm not. Look, man, like, this is on you.

[B]

Like, well, those are two very different things.

[A]

Right? I mean, it's fashionable to say, I want help or to message somebody or to say, how do I. You know, how do I get better in life? It's like, okay, I can give you the answers, which there's really just one, which is just take action and start doing things. But you have to be able to apply it, man. Like, there's a lot of things you can do. There's a lot of methods of healing. But the. But you've got to. You have got to be willing to do it. And with so many victims and survivors, people tiptoe around them because of that term of that survivor, that victim. I'm a victim of this. So I actually changed my book. The subtitle was initially Surviving a Childhood, and I actually changed it to Overcoming because of that. Because I was like. And, you know, and that was actually.

[B]

I think that's a good call.

[A]

I think it was actually opposed by the editor initially because she's like, well, survivor is a more fitting term. And I'm like, I'm trying to break the mold. I understand. Yeah. If I call myself a survivor, I have a survivor story. Like, dude, my story, as much as it is about childhood trauma and all that, it's about being a warrior, man. Like, that's the reason why I went and ran the ultramarathons with, like, no training that's the reason why I do Jiu jitsu. It's the reason why I crushed it at work. And it was the number one guy in the country at this company. You know, there's a reason why I've done. There's a reason why I wrote a book. There's a reason why I do what I do. Tell my story the way that I tell it because I'm a fucking warrior, dude. I'm not. I don't ever want to be looked at like I survived because I. I'm. Well, you did.

[B]

Survival is the baseline foundation.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

What do you do with it? Because I mean, you have to survive to literally, by definition survive. But then are you defined by what happened to you or what are you able. Are willing to do with that?

[A]

Yeah. You know, I don't walk around telling people that, you know, whatever. Like, that's not my identity. You know, it's not my identity. My. My childhood is not my identity. Unfortunately, with the nature of my story and maybe it's the way I tell. Does come off as very much a. A survivor story, which is good and bad. It is. I just, I want again, you had.

[B]

To survive it to be able to get to the point to write the book about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Work your way towards overcoming it. I think survival is the foundation.

[A]

I think the attitude of just overcoming adversity and overcoming just is what I want people to get out of it. I want people to understand that, like, it don't matter what you go through, man, people are doing more with less, you know, and, you know, whether it was in your childhood or your adulthood, you are going to face some level of adversity or trauma at some point. And it's up to you how you get through it. And if you're going to get through it, you know, but there's a. There's a decision point and then there's a process that you have to follow. There's no ozempic to like trauma. You're not just gonna pop a needle on your arm and you're gonna feel better. Well, depending on the needle.

[B]

And short term better versus long term better.

[A]

Yeah. So, you know, that's what I want people to get is like, you don't have to wear this label. I'll leave you, I guess with like, there's a. I wrote a short poem inspired by one of my friends because when I was in the military, I often looked at seals and especially in the 82nd, looking at the rangers and Green Berets. And I would always be like, man, I Wonder if they'd be able to make it through, like, my childhood. And then inversely, I would look at, like, I wonder how bad buds is compared to, like, 16 years of hell. You know, it is a walk in the park, potentially.

[B]

And BUDS is not that hard.

[A]

Okay, so I say this. So I wrote this, like, short story, and it's called no Bell to Ring. And what it is, is it's a testament to, like, childhood trauma and the effects of it and how fucking hard it is. Because there's no bell. There's no cadre with a warm truck and a place where I can just step off and quit. There's.

[B]

Don't forget the hot chocolate.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I was just about to get to that, actually. There's. There's nothing like that. There's no environment where I can just step off and quit, you know, ring the fucking bell. In addition to that, there's no if I. If I survive my childhood. There's no accolade I don't get. I don't get to wear this trident. I don't get to wear a green beret. I'm not a Marine Raider or whatever the hell. In fact, oftentimes the accolades are addict, alcoholic, abusive, homeless. These accolades are these negative connotations with life. Furthermore, the one title or two titles that you might get are Survivor and Victim. And I want people to get away from that, man. I want people to break out of that. And because you have so many people that have, like, trauma anniversaries, and it's like, this is my seventh, seventh year of trauma of my traumatic event.

[B]

And I call that a merry go round. Yeah, you got to get off the merry go round.

[A]

There's. Well, there's an addiction because it feeds because of the cancel culture. Like, kind of said it multiple times, right? That person gets on a stage and says, me, too. You know, it's. Dude, If I was £500, if I was sitting in front of you right now when I was £500 and I was a fat, fucking miserable piece of shit, my story wouldn't be inspiring. It's heartbreaking, but it's not inspiring. And I don't. I don't want to be a heartbreaking story. I want people to, like, when I get done fucking talking to somebody, I want them to realize, like, all right, I got this shit. Like, fuck this, man. If this fucking guy can get through it and talk about it the way that he does and. And own it and say, you know what? I'm tired of the bullshit. I'm tired of my fucked up life. I'm tired of being who the fuck I am. I'm gonna choose to wake up one day and be like, you know what? Fuck this. I'm happy. I don't give a fuck. I'm happy. There's bigger problems in the world. I'm good. I'm gonna go do hard. There's a. There's a quote and Breathe Hicks and Gracie's book. And it's. I love it, man. And Jiu Jitsu, it's. Sometimes it's not about winning. Sometimes it's like slight adjustments when you're getting choked just to breathe for. Just to survive just a little bit longer, and that's all you got to do. Sometimes, man, it's not about winning everything. Sometimes you just gotta just. Just make minor adjustments in life to keep fucking breathing. And if you can do that, if you can outlast the opponent or life or the will of the forces that be, you know, you can get. You can. You can get through the shit, you know.

[B]

Have you ever considered Jiu Jitsu is not about winning at all?

[A]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

It's just about getting better.

[A]

Yeah. And staying on top.

[B]

If you're a wrestler, it's probably better to be a power top than a power bottom. Where can people find your book? And where can people find you?

[A]

Yeah. So the book is on Amazon. Strength beyond the Shadows. It's on Amazon. It's on my website, too. Sethgale.com. my last name is G E H L E. Yeah, man.

[B]

You do all the socials?

[A]

Yeah, I'm on all the socials. Seth Gail.

[B]

Just your name.

[A]

Okay, yeah, whatever. I mean, if you can't find me, it's 2025 now, Seth Gail. You should be able to find me.

[B]

You should. I mean, if you need to go to the Amazon link, which is probably going to take you to the book page, which will probably have links to the social stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not that I need to hopefully walk that out for people, but you'd be surprised if you're struggling.

[A]

You probably wouldn't be, but.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you want to leave people with, man? Just. Thank you. Thanks for listening. Yeah, man, thank you. If you want to sign copy of the book, I do those as well. My email address. You can hit me up on the socials and just ask and I'll. I'll provide that. I'll sign and ship them. Yeah, but, you know, I got nothing, man. I'm just so. I'm. I'm thankful to be. I'm lucky. I say Lucky. I think it's the intersection between hard work and opportunity.

[B]

Agreed. That's actually my definition as well.

[A]

Yeah. I think I've worked my ass off to be in the place that I am at. And when the opportunity has presented itself, I was in the right place to capture the moment, you know, and get. And get done. And, you know, you're a loser every day, basically, until you win, you know, so get out there and. And do the thing that you want to do in life. We're on this floating rock and we're gonna die soon.

[B]

And why soon? Like, the. Define soon?

[A]

Well, in the grand scheme, sooner than you, probably, but, yeah, in the grand scheme of things, you know, like, we're only here for a limited amount of time, man. Like, go and do your thing, man.

[B]

Might as well make the most out of it.

[A]

Yeah. Make the most out of it. And. And, you know, the only regret you're going to have is not. I don't. I mean, people up all the time and. And the regress you're going to have the most is like, I wish. I wish I would have done something. I wish I would have started something. I wish, you know, so get out there, go do the thing. Start Jiu jitsu. Run an ultramarathon. Don't do that. Those things.

[B]

I was gonna say, the jiu jitsu part's awesome. The ultramarathon, I mean, if you hate yourself, go ahead.

[A]

Yeah. And that's what I did. I hated myself for a hundred miles. But no, man, I appreciate you guys having me on and. And listening. If anybody's got anything, reach out, hit me up, Try to respond to everybody. So thank you.

[B]

Thank you for being willing to tell your story. It's not an easy one, so hopefully it gets easier with time and repetition.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, shit. Let me tell you this, okay. You just interviewed mandatory fund guy.

[B]

Yes. Austin Von Lechtman.

[A]

Yeah, man. And you said something on there that I really liked, and it was. You talked about, you know, all your buddies who come into the military with, like, a sea bag full of shit. Right.

[B]

I didn't realize it. Yeah, because we didn't talk about it.

[A]

Yeah. And so as long.

[B]

I think it has something to do with the decision a lot of people make on the tail end. They didn't deal with it before.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They are layering more on top of it. And you. Everybody has a breaking point. Everybody has a breaking point.

[A]

Yeah, man. And I'll tell you, you know, when I was in the military, I was so scared. I don't know if it's changed. But I was so fucking scared to say something because I processed and not processed, like literally, but I helped and expedited and pushed for the chapter of several guys because they had mental health crisis and issues. And I feel fucking horrible about it today because I was attacking guys that were suicidal and I was going through the same fucking shit. And so for anybody who's in the military listening, like, the broken toy just needs new batteries. Like, we're punishing. I don't know if it's still happening because I'm not in anymore, but I know that when I was in, we're like throwing these toys away and these guys are like kicked out of the military when they need fucking help. And they joined the military likely because maybe they needed some fucking help and structure. And so for those that are serving or helping in that capacity in any way, I would highly consider, you know, trying to get your guys to get some help. You know, there is a time and a place. You know, get off the X and then do your processing. Right. But man, there just needs to be a. There's a. There's a big problem with it, obviously.

[B]

And it starts with those in leadership positions being willing to get help themselves and then taking the next step. And that is being able to talk about the impact that it had for them.

[A]

Sure, yeah.

[B]

That's how you change the culture. But it'll take time. Yeah, I'm not in touch with anymore. The SEAL community was drastically changing their approach to mental health as I was getting out. And we're well over a decade at this point. I'm going to assume and hope that it continued in that direction.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I just wanted to thank you. I think the way you guys talked about that for the brief moment that you guys did, I think it was. It was very powerful and impactful. And so I just wanted to thank you for saying all that.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

Cool, man. Appreciate it. Thank you.