Podcast Summary: Cleared Hot, Episode 387 - Rich Diviney

Introduction

In Episode 387 of Cleared Hot, host Andy Stumpf engages in an in-depth conversation with Rich Diviney, a seasoned Navy SEAL officer with over two decades of service, including 13 overseas deployments. Rich is not only a veteran but also an accomplished author, having penned two insightful books: Masters of Uncertainty and The Attributes. The episode delves into Rich's military career, his transition to civilian life, the essence of his writings, and the profound attributes that determine success both in and out of the SEAL community.

Background and Military Career

Rich Diviney's extensive military background forms the foundation of the discussion. Serving as a commanding officer and leading assault squadrons within the Development Group, Rich has firsthand experience of the rigorous demands of Navy SEAL training and operations.

Books Discussed: Masters of Uncertainty and The Attributes

Rich elaborates on his two books, focusing primarily on The Attributes.

Rich Diviney [05:14]: "The Attributes is a book that explores the essential qualities that determine outcomes in high-pressure environments."

• Publishing Journey: Rich shares his publishing journey, detailing his first book with Penguin Random House and his second through a hybrid model with Amplify. He emphasizes the importance of creative control and better royalty percentages with self-publishing.

Rich Diviney [05:19]: "The percentages are way better that way. And again, I had a great experience with my publisher during COVID."

• Writing Process: The writing process involves centering around key ideas and outlining supporting concepts. His collaboration with neuroscientist Andrew Huberman inspired much of his work on attributes and managing uncertainty.

Rich Diviney [06:05]: "When we are in any environment, our brains are trying to figure out three aspects: duration, pathway, and outcome. Absence of one or more increases uncertainty and anxiety."

Attributes vs. Skills

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to distinguishing between attributes and skills.

• Skills: Defined as trainable abilities specific to tasks (e.g., shooting, running), easily measurable and often emphasized in hiring processes.

• Attributes: Inherent qualities such as patience, adaptability, and situational awareness that dictate behavior in uncertain and stressful situations. These are less tangible but crucial for performance under pressure.

Rich Diviney [77:39]: "Skills are trainable and direct our behavior in specific environments, whereas attributes inform how we show up in any situation."

BUD/S Training Insights

Rich and Andy discuss the nature of BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training), highlighting its role as a crucible designed to test and filter candidates based on their attributes rather than just skills.

• Compartmentalization: The ability to focus on immediate tasks and "move horizons" to manage dopamine levels, essential for enduring Hell Week and subsequent phases.

Rich Diviney [08:17]: "Masters of Uncertainty explores how individuals navigate uncertainty, challenge, and stress, which is vital for BUD/S."

• Hell Week: Described as the most grueling phase where candidates must push through extreme physical and mental stress, often precipitated by high attrition rates due to inability to manage horizons.

Rich Diviney [15:13]: "The secret is practicing horizon shifting—picking a focus point to create certainty and manipulate the dopamine system to keep moving forward."

Humor and Team Dynamics

Humor is identified as a critical attribute that helps SEALs manage stress and build camaraderie.

Rich Diviney [89:36]: "Humor is powerful because it releases dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin, reducing fear and enhancing team bonding."

Transition to Civilian Life

The conversation shifts to the challenges faced by SEALs transitioning to civilian life, focusing on identity loss and mental health issues.

• Identity Crisis: Leaving the SEALs often means relinquishing a core part of one's identity, leading to struggles in finding new roles and coping mechanisms.

Rich Diviney [56:11]: "Identity is a collection of roles and when you leave, you have to create new ones to avoid falling into despair."

• Mental Health: High suicide rates among veterans are discussed, attributing them to unresolved trauma and the difficulty of adapting SEAL-developed attributes to civilian environments.

Rich Diviney [50:56]: "Putting emotions aside doesn't mean they're gone. Processing and dealing with them post-service is crucial."

Leadership and Developing Others

Rich emphasizes the importance of leadership that fosters the growth of team members beyond the leader's own capabilities.

Rich Diviney [122:00]: "The irony of leadership is that if you do your job correctly, you work yourself out of a job by creating a team that can run without you."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Rich and Andy reflecting on their military experiences, the enduring value of the attributes developed through SEAL training, and the ongoing journey of personal growth and adaptation.

Rich Diviney [152:15]: "Regardless of what happens, I'll figure it out. Picking new mountains keeps us young."

Notable Quotes

1. Rich Diviney [15:13]: "The secret is practicing horizon shifting—picking a focus point to create certainty and manipulate the dopamine system to keep moving forward."
2. Rich Diviney [77:39]: "Skills are trainable and direct our behavior in specific environments, whereas attributes inform how we show up in any situation."
3. Rich Diviney [89:36]: "Humor is powerful because it releases dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin, reducing fear and enhancing team bonding."
4. Rich Diviney [122:00]: "The irony of leadership is that if you do your job correctly, you work yourself out of a job by creating a team that can run without you."

Final Thoughts

Episode 387 of Cleared Hot offers a profound exploration of what it takes to be a Navy SEAL and how those experiences translate into attributes that drive success in various facets of life. Rich Diviney's insights into managing uncertainty, the distinction between attributes and skills, and the complexities of transitioning to civilian life provide valuable lessons for listeners striving to push beyond their comfort zones and embrace challenges.

For more information on Rich Diviney's work and to explore his books, visit TheAttributes.com.