Episode 387 - Rich Diviney - Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC

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What's up everybody? Welcome back. My guest today is Rich Devini. 20 plus years as a Navy Seal officer, 13 overseas deployments, 11 of those being between Afghanistan and Iraq. Worked his way up through the rank infrastructure commanding officer of one of the assault squadrons over at Development Group for a time. He talks about all of this and we talk a little bit about his career as well. But I tell you what, this conversation, he's an author. Let me add that, by the way, because actually we talked about, I would say the content of his books more than anything. Two books, Masters of Uncertainty and then the Attributes. We had a fascinating conversation about attributes and skills, which ones determine outcome, why people quit in bud, how to effectively attack your goals and be successful where other people are generally not. It was an awesome conversation. I love conversations like this with people from previous background. And it's funny, the outside listener or people outside of the SEAL community often think that we all know each other because it is relatively small, but you really only know the people that work in the building with you, let alone peripherally the people that maybe work in the next building. So we crossed paths and we're kind of in the same places, but didn't really know each other that well at all. So it was great to sit down, reconnect and talk about what he's got going on. I really enjoyed the conversation about the attributes and skills and problem solving and just successfully completing your goals. So episode 387 is going to be with Rich Devini. Give me a minute or two here, let me pay the bills so I can keep bringing the podcast to everybody for free. Today's episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. You guys know the brand. You know I'm tied into the brand. I'm incredibly good friends with the founder, Evan. I own one of the coffee shops up here in Montana. None of that can benefit you, the listener. But what can is if you go over to Don. Www.BlackRiffleCoffee.com Let's head over there right now. So they're still showing up on their top banner. Operation Neptune Spear. I covered this in the last ad read that was the official operation name for the military operation that killed Osama bin Laden. It's a lot of the word operation that I just used there. Moving on. I mean, but also, who doesn't like an owl with a set of binos on there? Rounds. I tell you what, we sell rounds in the coffee shop and I am shocked by how many people buy these things. It's not how I prefer to enjoy coffee, but the feedback I'm getting that rounds are also known as K cups. They're incredibly convenient and the recipes keep getting better, meaning how they're putting it together. And the taste of the cup of coffee is basically like right out of a coffee shop. So you can shop those, all of their beans here on this rotating little banner. The slider bar. You can go all the way from light to extra dark. And you can get shirts, apparel, all of those things. I'll leave you with. The energy drinks that are new, they have four flavors, are also a top seller at the shop. Again, not my particular cup of tea, but people are loving those things. The last thing I'll leave you with is this. The cleared hot blend of coffee is coming back. Now, you're not going to be able to get that on this particular website, and I'll talk about that later, but it's one of the cool things I get to do collaborating with this brand. It's founded by amazing people. They stand for what I believe to be are the core tenets of this country. And one of the best ways that you can support me is by supporting the brands that align themselves with this podcast. Www.BlackRiffleCoffee.com go get you some. Back to the show.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cleared Hot, Episode 387 - Rich Diviney

Introduction

In Episode 387 of Cleared Hot, host Andy Stumpf engages in an in-depth conversation with Rich Diviney, a seasoned Navy SEAL officer with over two decades of service, including 13 overseas deployments. Rich is not only a veteran but also an accomplished author, having penned two insightful books: Masters of Uncertainty and The Attributes. The episode delves into Rich's military career, his transition to civilian life, the essence of his writings, and the profound attributes that determine success both in and out of the SEAL community.

Background and Military Career

Rich Diviney's extensive military background forms the foundation of the discussion. Serving as a commanding officer and leading assault squadrons within the Development Group, Rich has firsthand experience of the rigorous demands of Navy SEAL training and operations.

Books Discussed: Masters of Uncertainty and The Attributes

Rich elaborates on his two books, focusing primarily on The Attributes.

Rich Diviney [05:14]: "The Attributes is a book that explores the essential qualities that determine outcomes in high-pressure environments."

Publishing Journey: Rich shares his publishing journey, detailing his first book with Penguin Random House and his second through a hybrid model with Amplify. He emphasizes the importance of creative control and better royalty percentages with self-publishing.

Rich Diviney [05:19]: "The percentages are way better that way. And again, I had a great experience with my publisher during COVID."

Writing Process: The writing process involves centering around key ideas and outlining supporting concepts. His collaboration with neuroscientist Andrew Huberman inspired much of his work on attributes and managing uncertainty.

Rich Diviney [06:05]: "When we are in any environment, our brains are trying to figure out three aspects: duration, pathway, and outcome. Absence of one or more increases uncertainty and anxiety."

Attributes vs. Skills

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to distinguishing between attributes and skills.

Skills: Defined as trainable abilities specific to tasks (e.g., shooting, running), easily measurable and often emphasized in hiring processes.
Attributes: Inherent qualities such as patience, adaptability, and situational awareness that dictate behavior in uncertain and stressful situations. These are less tangible but crucial for performance under pressure.

Rich Diviney [77:39]: "Skills are trainable and direct our behavior in specific environments, whereas attributes inform how we show up in any situation."

BUD/S Training Insights

Rich and Andy discuss the nature of BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training), highlighting its role as a crucible designed to test and filter candidates based on their attributes rather than just skills.

Compartmentalization: The ability to focus on immediate tasks and "move horizons" to manage dopamine levels, essential for enduring Hell Week and subsequent phases.

Rich Diviney [08:17]: "Masters of Uncertainty explores how individuals navigate uncertainty, challenge, and stress, which is vital for BUD/S."

Hell Week: Described as the most grueling phase where candidates must push through extreme physical and mental stress, often precipitated by high attrition rates due to inability to manage horizons.

Rich Diviney [15:13]: "The secret is practicing horizon shifting—picking a focus point to create certainty and manipulate the dopamine system to keep moving forward."

Humor and Team Dynamics

Humor is identified as a critical attribute that helps SEALs manage stress and build camaraderie.

Rich Diviney [89:36]: "Humor is powerful because it releases dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin, reducing fear and enhancing team bonding."

Transition to Civilian Life

The conversation shifts to the challenges faced by SEALs transitioning to civilian life, focusing on identity loss and mental health issues.

Identity Crisis: Leaving the SEALs often means relinquishing a core part of one's identity, leading to struggles in finding new roles and coping mechanisms.

Rich Diviney [56:11]: "Identity is a collection of roles and when you leave, you have to create new ones to avoid falling into despair."

Mental Health: High suicide rates among veterans are discussed, attributing them to unresolved trauma and the difficulty of adapting SEAL-developed attributes to civilian environments.

Rich Diviney [50:56]: "Putting emotions aside doesn't mean they're gone. Processing and dealing with them post-service is crucial."

Leadership and Developing Others

Rich emphasizes the importance of leadership that fosters the growth of team members beyond the leader's own capabilities.

Rich Diviney [122:00]: "The irony of leadership is that if you do your job correctly, you work yourself out of a job by creating a team that can run without you."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Rich and Andy reflecting on their military experiences, the enduring value of the attributes developed through SEAL training, and the ongoing journey of personal growth and adaptation.

Rich Diviney [152:15]: "Regardless of what happens, I'll figure it out. Picking new mountains keeps us young."

Notable Quotes

Rich Diviney [15:13]: "The secret is practicing horizon shifting—picking a focus point to create certainty and manipulate the dopamine system to keep moving forward."
Rich Diviney [77:39]: "Skills are trainable and direct our behavior in specific environments, whereas attributes inform how we show up in any situation."
Rich Diviney [89:36]: "Humor is powerful because it releases dopamine, endorphins, and oxytocin, reducing fear and enhancing team bonding."
Rich Diviney [122:00]: "The irony of leadership is that if you do your job correctly, you work yourself out of a job by creating a team that can run without you."

Final Thoughts

Episode 387 of Cleared Hot offers a profound exploration of what it takes to be a Navy SEAL and how those experiences translate into attributes that drive success in various facets of life. Rich Diviney's insights into managing uncertainty, the distinction between attributes and skills, and the complexities of transitioning to civilian life provide valuable lessons for listeners striving to push beyond their comfort zones and embrace challenges.

For more information on Rich Diviney's work and to explore his books, visit TheAttributes.com.