Episode 392 - Nick Bare - Army, Fitness, Nutrition, Entrepreneur

Summary

Episode 392 - Nick Bare: Army, Fitness, Nutrition, Entrepreneur

Cleared Hot Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Nick Bare
Release Date: June 23, 2025

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In Episode 392 of Cleared Hot, host Andy Stumpf engages in an in-depth conversation with Nick Bare, a multifaceted individual whose journey spans military service, entrepreneurship, fitness, and nutrition. This episode delves into Nick's transformative experiences, the challenges he faced, and the insights he garnered along the way.

1. Launching "Cleared Hot" and Initial Ventures

Andy begins by discussing the launch strategy for his campaign, specifically focusing on a digital-first approach via Amazon.

• Nick emphasizes the importance of digital platforms, stating, "If you look at the people who've done very well with beverage, they've partnered with the distributor, give them 10% of the business and then blow it up." ([00:40])

2. Vision for Brand Awareness Outside Retail

The conversation shifts to the challenges of educating consumers in traditional retail settings like gas stations.

• Nick suggests, "You can build brand awareness outside of retail," highlighting alternative marketing strategies that don't rely solely on in-store promotions. ([01:33])

3. Financial Success and Business Growth

Andy shares insights into the financial benchmarks within the Ready-to-Drink (RTD) market, citing examples like Prime and CC Ford.

• Nick reflects on high evaluations in the industry: "I sold 30% of the business for 800 million. That is not a bad evaluation." ([02:25])

4. Personal Dreams and Lifestyle Choices

The duo discusses personal aspirations beyond business, touching upon dream properties and vehicles.

• Andy shares his dream of owning a pristine 100-acre property with existing trails and wildlife, emphasizing minimalistic yet functional living spaces. ([03:13])
• Nick reveals his passion for classic trucks, specifically a "1974 F250 crew cab, Highboy," showcasing his appreciation for vintage machinery. ([04:35])

5. Family Life and Parenting Challenges

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the joys and trials of parenting.

• Andy talks about managing a clean truck amidst the chaos brought by young children, humorously describing his method of disposing of garage clutter. ([09:25])
• Nick shares heartfelt anecdotes about his children, reflecting on the rapid growth and evolving relationships: "When you start having existential conversations about life and desires, and they're asking you deep questions about what you believe and why. It’s wild." ([14:09])

6. Entrepreneurial Journey and Business Lessons

Nick delves into the inception of his entrepreneurial ventures, particularly focusing on Bear Performance Nutrition (BPN).

• Nick recounts his early days mixing pre-workout supplements in college, highlighting the challenges of scaling the business while fulfilling military obligations.
• He emphasizes the critical lesson of having a clearly defined and communicated vision, inspired by Jim Collins' Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0: "Core values, purpose, and goals must be clearly defined and communicated to ensure alignment across all departments." ([116:34])

7. Military Influence on Leadership and Business

The impact of military training on Nick's leadership style and business operations is a recurring theme.

• Nick contrasts military leadership with civilian business environments, noting the importance of culture and camaraderie over financial incentives: "In the military, it doesn’t matter if you work 20, 30, 40 extra hours a week… There's no additional financial incentive." ([48:14])

8. Endurance and Fitness Achievements

Nick shares his passion for running and endurance sports, detailing his progression from marathons to Ironman triathlons.

• He speaks about the mental and physical discipline required to achieve personal records, emphasizing consistency: "It's better to be consistently good than occasionally great." ([79:59])
• Discussing his nutrition strategy for endurance events, Nick highlights his focus on optimal carbohydrate and electrolyte intake to prevent gut issues: "Our G1M Sport product, with cluster dextrin, digests quickly and prevents the gut rot common in endurance athletes." ([153:25])

9. Future Goals and Legacy

As the conversation wraps up, both Andy and Nick reflect on their future aspirations and the legacy they wish to leave behind.

• Nick outlines his goal to make BPN the most respected endurance consumer brand globally, emphasizing the importance of authentic storytelling and community building.
• He also touches upon the balance between personal ambitions and family responsibilities, aiming to maintain intentionality in his choices to support both his business and family life.
  • "Every day we’re faced with many decisions… particular decisions can shift the trajectory of our entire life." ([131:57])

Conclusion

Episode 392 offers a comprehensive look into Nick Bare's life, illustrating how his military background has seamlessly integrated with his entrepreneurial spirit. The discussion underscores the significance of vision, consistency, and intentional living in achieving both personal and professional success. Listeners gain valuable insights into building a brand, balancing family life, and pursuing endurance challenges with unwavering dedication.

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Notable Quotes:

• Nick Bare at [02:25]: "Thirty percent of the business for 800 million. That is not a bad evaluation."
• Nick Bare at [14:09]: "When you start having existential conversations about life and desires, and they're asking you deep questions about what you believe and why. It’s wild."
• Nick Bare at [79:59]: "It's better to be consistently good than occasionally great."
• Nick Bare at [116:34]: "Core values, purpose, and goals must be clearly defined and communicated to ensure alignment across all departments."
• Nick Bare at [153:25]: "Our G1M Sport product, with cluster dextrin, digests quickly and prevents the gut rot common in endurance athletes."

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Resources Mentioned:

• Jim Collins' Book: Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0
• Nick Bare's Business: bearperformance.com
• Nick Bare's YouTube Channel: Search "Nick Bare"

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Connect with Nick Bare:

• Website: bearperformance.com
• YouTube: Nick Bare
• Book: Go One More – Available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target

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This episode is a testament to the power of perseverance, strategic vision, and the relentless pursuit of one's passions. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a fitness enthusiast, or someone navigating the complexities of balancing personal and professional life, Nick Bare's story offers inspiration and actionable insights.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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Prices vary based on how you buy. Okay, I got the red smoke. Sun runs north to south.

[A]

West of the smoke.

[B]

West of the smoke.

[A]

Okay, copy.

[B]

West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now.

[A]

Give it to me.

[B]

I mean, it cleared hot campaign.

[A]

Cleared hot. We spent, like, last year, like, exploring it. We haven't launched anything yet. So we're doing an rtd, but it's. We're launching it specifically on Amazon.

[B]

Okay, so just straight digital.

[A]

Straight digital, yeah. And maybe eventually we'll get into, like, retail, but not until we have, like, a partner on board. Man. If you look at the people who've done, like, very well with beverage, they've partnered with the distributor, give them 10% of the business and then blow it up.

[B]

I mean, how many times have you gone to a gas station and tried to educate yourself on the new products in the glass? Because the answer for me is zero. Cause my car's filling up and I want to go back and get in the car and get on the road.

[A]

Yeah. Or you buy what you know is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Reliable.

[B]

How do you educate the consumer at the frosted glass, you know, cooled beverage section at a gas station?

[A]

That's the thing is, like, I don't think it's on can, like. No, you can build brand awareness outside of retail.

[B]

I think they have to know what they're looking for when they go in there. Yeah, I think that's it.

[A]

That's what prime has done so well.

[B]

Have they done great? I've heard things.

[A]

I mean, first off, I have no.

[B]

Insider knowledge, and I'm talking completely out of my ass when I say that. I've heard the term prime, and it might have actually been associated with good things.

[A]

I think they're like multi hundred millions and like, mid teens. Ebitda. I mean, I just sold the numbers for Lonnie New. I think they're 800 million in revenue and 15% profitability.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Which, like, for an RTD is like rare money.

[B]

I don't even understand those numbers, man.

[A]

Or like, even like that C C Ford.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, he just sold, I think, 30% of the business for 800 million.

[B]

Thirty percent of the business for 800 million. That is not a bad evaluation.

[A]

It's what else I just don't know the deal.

[B]

What would you do if somebody wrote you a check for 800 million other than give 400 million of that to Uncle Sam?

[A]

I mean, it's like that's, that's. That's money that I came. Like, I don't get a fathom where to put places.

[B]

What would you do, though? What would be your first purchase? Like, actual legit, outside of the wheelhouse of normal thought. Like, I need a Bugatti. I don't want a Bugatti. I need a Bugatti type purchase.

[A]

What would you buy of like, wants, not needs.

[B]

100% want. Like, needs are out the window because now you have 800 million. It's just whatever you want.

[A]

Want. Just like a dream property.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah. It's like the big.

[B]

How many acres we talking?

[A]

Not too much.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'd say like 100 acres. And. But I wanted like pristine. Perfect. Where there's, like, there's trails, the bar. I didn't want to build a. A house that looks like an old house, but it is a new house.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You get. You get like the new house without all the old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Crap associated.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I just want like the perfect land and property, the animals.

[B]

What vehicle would you buy? I feel like it's. I mean, I'll be a truck.

[A]

Well, my. My dream vehicles. I'm gonna have it in two months. It's 1974 F250 crew cab, Highboy.

[B]

Michael, I'm gonna need you to pull this up because I need to see this. 74 is your dream vehicle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like you weren't alive in 74. I wasn't either. And I'm definitely older than you.

[A]

I'm 90.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I love that body style.

[B]

I gotta see a picture. Oh, man. Michael, can you please figure out why that every time you pull.

[A]

Sure. It's not.

[B]

Is any of the color schemes up here? Is that. Is this your dream truck?

[A]

It's box, but the one I'm getting is boxwood green. That's like. That's a. More of a forest green box. Floyd green. So I found. This was a completely random. I was. Oh, something like. Like a mattish. So I was on Instagram just looking at old trucks months ago, and I came across a shop down near Kyle, Texas, and I messaged a guy. I was like, hey, I'm just looking for an old, like, 70s high boy. This just came in the shop. I'll help you build this.

[B]

So are you going to rebuild to 70s tech, or are you gonna go the route where it looks like the 74 but under the hood is all modern, like they do with the old Broncos where it's supercharged.

[A]

No, I'm not doing that. Okay. 70s.

[B]

Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Where it looks like it has the roller windows, but you just push down. It's a. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, this is all. Everything's analog.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No electronic doors or.

[B]

That's the dream truck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Today's episode is brought to you by Montana Knife Company. I highly recommend you head over to montanaknifecompany.com and see what they have to offer. They don't have everything in stock. They're doing their best to do so. And if you head over there, man, they have a good selection. As I read this, they're getting ready to launch their Hellgate hatchet tonight, which is a Thursday. So they release Thursdays and Saturdays. I believe they also have releases that will come out from time to time in between. So sign up for their email list or a text announcement. I've actually purchased knives and other accessories both of those days and both of those ways because you have to get in there early. They have a grant warranty program, lifetime sharpening, something that you should take advantage of. If anybody's like me, I can dull a knife like nobody's business. These things hold an edge very well, but they can be hard to get. I highly recommend heading onto their website, purchase something small. They have what I would recommend. I'm scrolling on their website right now. Go down to their apparel section. God, they make some cool shirts. Grab a T shirt or a sticker or whatever it may be. Save your payment information because when they do these releases. As an example, last week they released one of their tactical knives. I believe it was gone in minutes. And we're talking thousands of knives. So it can be competitive to get one of these things. Www.montanaknifecompany.com Fantastic. American brand, American made, American assembled, American finished, American shipped. Obviously they'll ship anywhere in the world, but head on over, do the best you can to try to get one of these bad boys. When they ask you where you came from in the checkout process, just tell them me or the cleared hot podcast. Montana Knife company dot com. Back to the show. I would have to go with the Hennessy Raptor.

[A]

The Hennessey Raptors, people. I have a Raptor myself and I love it.

[B]

Yeah, Raptor or Raptor R. Raptor. Okay.

[A]

I wanted to get the Raptor R.

[B]

But it's just more horsepower. Right.

[A]

Yeah. But I was told when I went to. Whenever I go to get oil changes, they say the Raptor R is insanely inconvenient to get oil changes.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Apparently the oil that's required for the Raptor R is super special and unique. But even like my Raptor, I can't take it into certain places to get oil changed.

[B]

Or aren't they just turbocharged? I mean, a Raptor is an awesome truck, but it's not incredibly crazy.

[A]

Apparently, like, the way you get to remove the parts to change the oil is super inconvenient. So a lot of people just won't do it.

[B]

I mean, the old Hennessey Raptor with the old 1000 hp under the hood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The lift, I mean. Yeah. Not that I can afford it. I might have done way too much research on it just to confirm that I can't afford it. It's a quarter million dol.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

I completely agree. And I tried really hard to justify to myself and convince myself that I had enough money to buy it, which I don't.

[A]

I mean, anyone can buy any car they want.

[B]

That's the problem is I know if I went to a lot, they would say, yeah, no problem, we'll make this work. It's only $18,000 a month for 72 years and you're gonna be fine. And it's such a badass truck. I would legitimately consider that. And no, I got kids, I got a wife. I can't play that game.

[A]

Yeah. The dangerous. If I go to look at it, that's the problem. And I test drive it because, you.

[B]

Know, it looks amazing on Instagram, which is where it caught me to. I saw that. And I know if I went into the studio and you just slide into the seat, which you know is going to be amazing, and they let you turn on the thousand horsepower engine, of course you're going to test drive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do you come back from that? You don't, is the answer.

[A]

A few years ago I bought a 96 F250. And you're liking power straight. I love the old FT50s and I love this truck, but the engine just went to crap on me.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

I love those old body styles, though.

[B]

I kind of like the newer ones. I don't know why. To each their own. It's like art. Sometimes it means something to people and other people look at it and say, this makes no sense.

[A]

I like the new F250s. I would love either an F250 or F350 all jacked up.

[B]

I've had an F350. It was capable of moving just about everything.

[A]

Was it a dually?

[B]

No, I've never had a dually. I've never had a reason to have a dually. Even though I've again have almost talked myself into getting a dualie with a gooseneck. I don't own a trailer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

These are the irrational conversations I have myself. Like yeah, dually gooseneck. Because then I can walk through this fantasy land of my mind where I would get something that was a gooseneck but with no intention behind it and would never probably use it.

[A]

I mean the most I use my truck for is to put like my wife's Amazon boxes in.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

To take to our warehouse to throw away.

[B]

Currently right now I have an empty bucket in the back of my F150. Yeah, it's. I basically take cardboard from the house from the daily Amazon stuff that shows up and throw it in the garbage.

[A]

Yeah, I'm the same way.

[B]

Yeah. Most, I mean that Hennessy Raptor is pitched as an off road vehicle. I bet you single digit percentage of owners would ever take that thing off the pavement.

[A]

I mean I wouldn't even want to take mine off.

[B]

I wouldn't either. I would just want to raise people on pavement.

[A]

Yeah, I mean I, I get my truck detail every once in a while and I try to keep it as like clean as possible for as long as possible. And what messes up is my kids. My kids just make a mess.

[B]

How old are they?

[A]

My daughter's about to be three and my son's about to be one.

[B]

Oh man, you're in the trenches.

[A]

So it's like it's snacks everywhere in the backseat.

[B]

I'm trying to think. So my oldest is, I'm in birthday season. My daughter just turned 17, my middle son will turn 20 in August and my oldest will turn 22 in October.

[A]

Oh wow.

[B]

But I remember those days. I'm trying to think of the worst thing I ever found in a car seat because there's some fun ones like fully soiled diaper underneath the rear seat that had been there for, I would have to estimate a week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Again, this was in my ex wife's car that I didn't. How that happened, I don't know. I feel like that is an instant throwaway. But for whatever reason people can probably imagine the smell of that. But yeah, I mean food in areas that I didn't know was possible. Goldfish I think was a crushed goldfish. Dust, but definitely, like, rotted food. My kids were going through a phase. I would make them lunches every day, and instead of eating them, they would stuff them down the cracks of the seats because they didn't want to get in trouble for not eating their lunch, which I didn't understand because I remember being hungry as a child. Like, what the fuck is going on here?

[A]

Yeah, my kids don't want. My daughter's at this phase. She doesn't want to eat anything that I make her, so I end up making a second dinner. My son.

[B]

That means she's the boss of you.

[A]

So she is 100% the boss of me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My, my, my relationship with my son right now and my daughter is completely different. Like, my daughter has me wrapped around.

[B]

Welcome to the rest of your life. My relationship with my sons is different. In between the two of them. Very different personalities. And my daughter's is completely different. They do. They have the switch. You're screwed.

[A]

I can tell already.

[B]

Yeah. The headbutting will come between her and your wife.

[A]

Oh, I, I, I anticipating that.

[B]

And then both will come to you independently. And you're screwed.

[A]

Great. So early on too.

[B]

It's cool. Enjoy it while you can. I've met so many parents who kind of want to rush through that phase. And what I'll say is this. In my experience at least, I have a Data point of 3. I guess for kids, the number of problems you face will not decrease. The complexity of the problems will increase. I mean, drug, sex, alcohol. It's just hope it doesn't all happen at once. Yeah. Interfaces with law enforcement. That's been a fun one. We're dealing with that one recently. Nothing wild, but those are fun. Calls or text messages if you happen to know some of the officers. Yeah, Relationships. My daughter, you know, breaking up with a boyfriend. Natural reaction. Obviously, kill this person. But, you know, maybe it just wasn't the right relationship.

[A]

Yeah. I can only, like. The thing is, it feels like it's so far away, but be here like that, dude. Like, I was thinking about this the other night. I feel like my daughter and I. It's. It sounds so cliche, but it feels like my daughter was just born and now she's having full conversations and, like, the things that she's remembering and picking up on.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It actually put things into perspective of how fast it is moving and how quickly it's gonna be gone.

[B]

Wait until you start having existential conversations about life and desires, and they're asking you deep questions about what you believe and why Stand by. It's wild.

[A]

It scares me.

[B]

At my oldest, I still remember the first time I held him as if it was yesterday. All three of my kids, I have so many memories from when they were young. And it's tough because I have to remind myself I'll see them. And my initial thought is, I think as a parent, they're just trapped in time at that age. And one of them is moving into his first apartment next month. And he goes to college down in Bozeman. And we were down there. I was able to go with him and get the keys to his apartment and film him walking in and all that cool stuff. And I'm like, I remember you just being a blob, unable to do anything, completely reliant upon your parents to handle everything. And now you're just off spreading your wings. It's. It's wild, man.

[A]

It makes me think of like, of building a business where, you know, before you start your business or before you have kids, you think you have this, like, plan you're going to lay out.

[B]

All the variables are accounted for.

[A]

This is how I'm going to do this, and this is how I'm going to do that. And then it happens. And you're blocking and tackling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I could see very quickly or easily how if you don't take a step back and kind of assess the situation and make intentional choices that it happens so quickly, like, oh, damn, like, I skipped X, Y and Z because I was just blocking and tackling the whole time. I wasn't actually in it and present and able to assess and address and plan.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think you'll have more kids?

[A]

Me and my wife have different opinions. Different opinions on that.

[B]

Well, you have a boy and a girl. We had two boys and my wife wanted to have. My ex wife wanted to have a daughter. I don't know how far that would have gone if my daughter had been a boy. I think that would have been the end of it. I will say this. Two kids is easier than three. They have this ability to understand when the defense has shifted from man on man to zone.

[A]

That's the best way. I was described how three is compared to two.

[B]

They don't talk about it, but they realize if one goes left and one goes right, fullback diet is wide open and they'll just do it. It's impossible. You are literally playing zone defense for the best of your ability.

[A]

I mean, for my. The rest of my life, I'll never forget the moment I've realized this. We were me and My wife were on a date night at this restaurant, our hometown, and we just started talking to this couple next to us, and they had three. We had two at the time, he was like, man, going from two to two to three was, you're playing zone instead of man to man. And for some reason, I sat back like, holy crap, I'm not ready for zone. My wife would love three, maybe even four, but we'll see. I mean, my. My son's still so young.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what I would recommend. I see people who take a really big gap in between their kids, almost teenage years, and then they start over. That seems to be a rough road.

[A]

I don't know if I'd like that.

[B]

Well, it's not that much easier, though. I had five consistent years of children in diapers. Five years of wiping asses, getting pissed on. It's explosive. Sometimes people don't understand what it's like to have it come out the back of the diaper, underneath the clothing, just covering. You have to experience that to understand what that's like. Five years of that is rough. I don't think I would have wanted to restart.

[A]

I mean, you become numb to it.

[B]

You do. You're in the trenches, and then one day you realize you have more money because you're not spending an inordinate amount of cash on diapers and wipes and the wipe warmer and. Oh.

[A]

I mean, I remember it hit me, the fact that of how numb I was to it a few months ago, shortly after my son was born, where he was crying the night I went to get him up to change him. And I'm trying to do it with just the wipe warmer light. And I didn't want to turn the lights on because I didn't want to illuminate him.

[B]

You don't want to wake him up.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. He was calm. So I'm trying to, like, navigate. I should have put a headlamp on at this point, but I ended up getting poop on my hand, and I just wiped it on my shirt.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Didn't think much. I just wiped on my shirt and, like, went back to bed. I woke up in the morning. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, there's poop in my shirt.

[B]

This is my life.

[A]

This is my life. Whose poop is this?

[B]

Well, at least you had an answer to that. I've woken up before and didn't know the answer to that. But it's a different story for a different day. How did you get into business. You. You seem to be very entrepreneurial or you knew that you wanted to go into business. Well, I still don't know if I want to be in business. And all of mine have been accidental. I think you seem to have been a lot more targeted.

[A]

I don't know if I would say I wanted to go into business necessarily, but I wanted to build a brand.

[B]

How did you know that? So young, though. I mean, when did you start thinking about that?

[A]

It was if I. Look, I mean, thinking back to high school. When I was in high school, I was entrepreneurial in a way that I didn't know was entrepreneurial. So I was mowing lawns.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Growing up. We were growing up in this neighborhood that was brand new. So we were one of the first houses in this neighborhood. There were dumpsters all over the neighborhood because there was constructing new homes. So I was probably 11, 12, 13 years old, take my wagon around, I jump in these dumpsters, I pull out wood, take it back to our house, and I build things. Whatever I could build. I was building stuff for Christmas. I was asking for, like power tools for my parents.

[B]

How did they respond to that?

[A]

They were all about it.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

They were all about it.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

I was getting like drills and jigsaws.

[B]

Most people are asking for Nintendo. Like, hey, there is this kabuta awesome wireless drill that I'd like with the drill attachments, please.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't get. I didn't get into video games at all.

[B]

You didn't miss much.

[A]

When I was young, I didn't miss much. I wasn't attracted to it. So in high school I was doing all of that kind of stuff. And then I ended up going to college. And I went to college on an Army ROTC scholarship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was studying nutrition, so I was. I was going to the Indiana University of Pennsylvania and I was going for free because I was on that Army ROTC contract and I was obsessed with the bodybuilding powerlifting supplement space then. And if you look back at like that industry back then compared to now is completely different. The Arnold Fitness Expo was massive. Pre Workout was new to the scene. I mean, I vividly remember my first experience with Pre Workout.

[B]

I do too.

[A]

I was hooked.

[B]

I remember. So I was stationed in Coronado and there was this super off brand Hole in the wall supplement place that other guys would recommend. And they were just like, hey, go in there, get the yellow jackets. Which wasn't the name of it, but I think the pill casing was black and yellow and it had to have been methamphetamine, it had to have been. If you took two of those before a workout, you were either going to have the best workout of your life or a heart attack.

[A]

Well, that's, that's. That was the industry back then.

[B]

Yeah, it was everything I thought it could be. It was amazing. When they stopped selling those, I was kind of bummed and also likely addicted at the time.

[A]

Well, that's one of the reasons I actually, I got into the industry because when I was freshman, sophomore, even junior in college, I was mixing up my own pre workout supplements.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

So I'd buy ingredients in bulk online. I was buying caffeine, citrulline, malate, creatine, beta, alanine.

[B]

So you've always been wired differently. Most people would just go to the gnc.

[A]

Well, I would do that until I realized I was running out of money. So when I was in the Army ROTC program, I was getting a stipend every month. So the beginning of that month, I'd buy these ingredients in bulk. And then if you walked into my dorm room when I was in college, it looked like I was selling drugs because I had a food scale and I had white powders everywhere. And I'd mix up pre workout. My friends would come to my dorm room or my apartment, knock on my door, they'd hand me a few bucks. I hand them a baggie of white powder, which was pre workout. But it looks like I'm dealing drugs for sure in, in college. And then I'd save that money and I'd buy more ingredients in bulk the next month. And I kept doing this until it was between my junior and senior year of college. Being in the Army RHC program, We got offered a, what they called a pre commissioning loan through USAA. And it was up to $25,000. And all my peers were buying engagement rings. They were going on vacations, they're getting new cars. And it was a sweet deal because we didn't have to make any payments for 18 months after we got the money. It was very nice and it was a very low interest rate. So I thought it was my golden ticket.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I got approved for the loan. $20,000. I found a manufacturer in California, placed my first production order for pre workout and got it shipped to my parents house. And I told my dad I was gonna make a million dollars that first year.

[B]

What'd you call it?

[A]

Bear Performance Nutrition. And the pre workout was called Flight Yes, Fleet. And here's the thing is I had this plan that fitness YouTube at time was brand new. So there are.

[B]

Wasn't YouTube in general probably brand new at that time?

[A]

It was very, very new actually.

[B]

Hold on. What year is. If you're in college, we're talking like this was 2012.

[A]

12.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. YouTube had been around for a bit. Probably hadn't caught fire the way that it is now, though.

[A]

It was being used in a different way then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than it is now for sure. But there are, there are a few fitness YouTubers back then. And my plan was I was gonna send some of my pre workout to these YouTubers and if a small portion of their audience converted, I thought I could make a million dollars. I told my dad this. He said if it was that easy, everyone would do it. I said, I'm prove you wrong. So that first year we did $20,000 in revenue. That second year we did $20,000 in revenue. That third year we did $20,000 IN revenue.

[B]

Damn it.

[A]

Far off from a million.

[B]

I mean, if you kept going for many more years, you would have gotten there at that pace. Like I didn't tell you how fast I was gonna make that million collectively.

[A]

I can't tell you how much of it would have been profit.

[B]

That's rough though. Yeah, man. The idea, the ideation and the reality. I feel like I've had a lot of million dollar ideas. Not a single one of them has actually produced a million dollars. But I think that's just the way.

[A]

I thought back then. It was gonna be so much easier than it really has been.

[B]

Well, to steal a line from our mutual friend Cam Haynes. The must be nice crowd. Right when they see you at the top of or where you're at and if you're having success, a lot of people will assume that, that it must be nice and it must have been easy for you. They don't get it now. They don't see the people forget between mountain peaks or massive valleys that some people don't make their way out of. And that actually to me is more fascinating than people at the apex. I'm way more interested in the journey between the two because everybody has that. Well, I don't know, maybe if you grew up a son of a billionaire or something like that. Even those people, though, I've actually found that people with that level of wealth, they can have. They have different problems.

[A]

I think more money does bring.

[B]

Yeah. Especially in the earlier age where it removes boundaries where most people wouldn't be able to do some things or get into circles or have access to certain things that can kind of Scramble your eggs. Yo. Yeah, I was going to ask you. I'm assuming you had to, because of the ROTC scholarship, you were obligated to go into the Army.

[A]

I was, yeah.

[B]

Because again, going back to what you're describing, did you have anybody in your family that was modeling that kind of entrepreneurial spirit? Do you have like a. Is this a genetic thing or did you just come out of the box wired differently?

[A]

I think wired differently.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I had a very interesting dynamic growing up, which I wasn't able to recognize then, but years later. So my dad's side of the family were all dairy farmers in central Pennsylvania. Extremely hard working people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, you're waking up at 4am to milk the cows and every night before you go to sleep you're milking the cows. So I. That whole side of the family, farmers in central Pennsylvania, my mom's side of the family, a lot of them are military. And that's what inspired me to go in the military, because my cousin Matt, this was 2006, 2007, early high school. I watched him, he was stationed at Fort Campbell for the 101st, and I watched him go on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Was very kinetic. And I watched him transform from being this boy to this man. And I said, I want and need that for my life. So that's what led me to. I wanted to enlist. My mom said no. So then compromise was the Army ROTC scholarship, which back then no one really knew about. It wasn't as competitive as it is today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I applied for it and I pretty much just got it.

[B]

If you hadn't have been obligated, let's say you had gone under, whatever, a different scholarship program, but you still had the opportunity to serve, do you think you would have. Without that obligation, do you think you would have pursued the entrepreneurial path or do you think you would have gone to the military regardless?

[A]

Gone to the military regardless.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I wanted.

[B]

Cause you kind of had to put one on pause. Right. Like it's. Well, actually, I don't know. I mean, you can have a pretty substantial side hustle when you're in the military if you manage your time appropriately. But it's not possible to do both at 100%.

[A]

No. And I learned it the hard way where I thought, ignorantly, I thought the business would be successful within a year after launching it, before I went active duty, that it would just be building on its own, just cash flowing in the. I thought, Yeah, I thought like passive, passive income, you know, and that, that year went really fast. You know, I launched it. I was, I was packing orders out of my apartment and I drop them off on my way to class in the morning. I used all the money on the loan. So I had a friend design the website for free. I had a friend design the labels for free. And before I knew it, college is over. Graduated, and I'm down in Fort Benning in Georgia for an entire year and the business hadn't grown at all.

[B]

How much flight did you get with your first?

[A]

Flight?

[B]

Flight? Oh, I thought you said flate. Like inflate. Both would be good actually. How much actual like quantity did you get from that first order? Are we talking like a garage full?

[A]

Five? No, no, 500 units. Okay, so here's the thing. I ordered 500 units and I thought it was coming on a truck. So I had that first production order shipped to my parents house. Cause like there's no way a truck's gonna be able to come to my college apartment. So I come home for a day. I live three hours from where I went to school. I come home and I'm waiting for this truck to drop off this massive amount of inventory. And it was like ground FedEx had dropped off like a box. Like this is 500 units.

[B]

You're waiting for like a forklift to come out and just be dropping pallets for sure.

[A]

So we, we carried all this inventory up to the room above the garage of my parents house. And this is where I stored all the inventory. And then I would take a few units when I come home back to my college apartment. That's where I'd fulfill orders. But I thought 500 units then was like, yeah, I needed a warehouse. Yeah, I needed a closet.

[B]

Yeah, man, that's awesome. Okay, so you kind of put it on hold as you went into the army. How much time did you do in the army?

[A]

Did four years. So I was at Fort Benning for a year. That was Infantry Officer Basic course, Ranger School, Airborne School, Bradley Leader. And then it was like October of 2014. I ended up at my first duty station, which was Fort Hood, Texas. So it landed me in Texas. And when I got to Texas, my unit at the time I was with first Cav, they were in Germany for an additional three months. So really like my schedule was go check in in the morning, see if there's anything to do with an ops, and if not, go home. So I had a lot of free time. But those first three months while my unit was gone, and that's where I made the decision to start documenting my entire Life on YouTube because I realized, okay, I have this business, it's not growing at all. I have all this supply. I have no demand. I have no money to pay anyone to help me build it or grow it. So I spent the last remaining $500 to my name on a camera.

[B]

How did you land on that choice of all things? Were you just a connoisseur of YouTube and was there something on there that inspired you to make that choice?

[A]

I loved watching YouTube Fitness in college. Yeah, I would drink my pre workout and I watch YouTube fitness videos.

[B]

What kind of stuff was on there then? Was this mostly like Arnold, like bodybuilding.

[A]

Type stuff or like vlogs?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It was like these early day, just fitness influencer athletes just kind of recording their life. And recording life is I'm training this, I'm eating. Here's where we're traveling to.

[B]

Did they talk about the steroids they were taking.

[A]

Of the channel? I was watching it was like a lot of like the Natural Bodybuilding 3 DMJ. Matt Ogus.

[B]

Natural? Are we using air quotes in that?

[A]

No, these are like natural athletes.

[B]

Okay. Many natural. I'll use the Liver King as an example. Did you know that he's all natural? Just listen to him.

[A]

I did watch the documentary on.

[B]

I did too. What was he jamming into his leg when? I don't think he realized he was. Did you see him pull the.

[A]

Oh, I remember that.

[B]

The auto pen out of the yeti.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause at the end of it he said, I'm off all of this stuff. He was eating vegetables. Like I don't think it's a spoiler alert. He's basically laying down in a vegetable garden covered in morning dew. It was a little weird, but yeah. There was an auto pen injectable of some kind. I'm curious what in the hell that was. I mean, it could have been saying that he's off of everything.

[A]

It could have been a million different things.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder if he realized they captured that. Because once that whole thing about him, like, hey, I'm done. Like I'm back to eating a little bit more balanced and I'm off all of my drugs also. How do you get off that many drugs and your physique does not change at all.

[A]

I expected that that documentary to be something different than what was. What did you think portrayed like online? It was like that whole thing was just like documented on social. In real life, in real time. I thought the doc would like show something differently.

[B]

It didn't really. It was Kind of very adjacent to what his social media personality is.

[A]

Yeah, I thought so too.

[B]

I also find it hilarious that there are clear examples on YouTube of him talking in his normal voice, not the liver King voice, but he's just still sticks with it.

[A]

Yeah, it's wild for the industry. Back in like 2012, 2013, I'd say like there were two extremes. There were the Olympia Bodybuilding, Arnold Fitness Expo athletes who were obviously enhanced, extremely enhanced. But there was like this emergence of natural bodybuilding athletes. And it was led, I would say, by this group called 3DMJ, 3D Muscle Journey. And this is a person, 3DMJ, it's a coaching group.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they were really popular then they made like flexible dieting, if it fits your macros, popular. I don't know if you remember those, those terms or those diet approaches.

[B]

I mean, I've at this point, I worked for CrossFit for almost 10 years, so I've been exposed to damn near every eating strategy there is.

[A]

But yeah, yeah, it was essentially all about tracking macros and manipulating body composition just to tracking macros. So this group called 3DMJ, Alberto Nunez, Matt Ogis, like these were some of the early day fitness YouTubers who were natural athletes and they were just documenting a life of how they're eating, how they're training, what they're, how they're competing, how they're prepping.

[B]

Was it pretty raw? I mean, extremely raw, not overly produced. It was just literally them talking into a camera. Probably them doing the editing as well.

[A]

Yeah, it was very little cinematic sequences. It wasn't anything professional. It was very raw. But I fell in love with this because I felt like I was invested into their journey and their life.

[B]

Yeah, you're part of their community. For lack of a better term.

[A]

I was part of their community. Yeah. So I always looked up these guys because they were building something on their own. They didn't need any money to do it and they didn't care about the criticism or hate they were getting. Because when I was in college, I had this idea, okay, if these guys can do it, I can do it. I filmed the video, I posted it, I got hate, I deleted the channel.

[B]

What was the video of?

[A]

It was like it was my pre workout meal and I vividly remember this. I just wanna, I've been eating this pre workout meal. That was this mixture that I would eat about two hours before every workout for years. And I thought, oh, I should share this with people because they'll appreciate this. I filmed the video. I posted on YouTube, just all hate, really. I was like, you know what? This ain't the place for me. So I. I tried on two separate occasions to start a YouTube channel, and it got criticism. I deleted the video. I deleted the channel.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So my third attempt was when I landed in Texas. And I realized it's either now or never. Like, this brand isn't growing. I'm gonna give it one more shot. I had $500 left in my name. I bought a camera. Bought a Canon T3i camera, 50 millimeter lens.

[B]

Oh, hell yeah.

[A]

And I just filmed everything. I filmed my meals, I filmed my training. I talked about being in the army and what it was like being a platoon leader. I went into Austin and I would just film whatever I could think of. And that actually slowly started building the business where that channel started growing. Very, very slowly. And then sales of supplements slowly started growing. And it wasn't anything dramatic or significant. It was maybe one additional unit per. Per week. And did this for. For two years from 2014 to 2016, and very, very slowly grew. 2016, we had orders to go to South Korea Camp Casey for nine months.

[B]

I've actually been there.

[A]

Oh, you've been there?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is actually where my business took off.

[B]

Really?

[A]

So when I got to Korea, we were doing $2,000 a month in revenue. And I told myself, by the end of that nine month training rotation, I want to be doing $10,000 a month in revenue.

[B]

Okay. 5x in it.

[A]

So it was not watching any movies, no tv, no socializing. Everything outside of work as a platoon leader will be spent building this business. And I realized that getting over there, I lived 50ft from where I worked. There was no longer a commute. There weren't these distractions. I wasn't going into Austin on the weekends. So I rebranded our entire website in Korea. I built the platform on Shopify, launched new products, did a rebrand, studied marketing. I was studying Casey Neistat. Learned how to do storytelling through YouTube videos.

[B]

That guy makes really cool videos.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

Have you ever connected with him? Yeah, I reached out to him over Instagram and he responded me and helped me with a full camera selection, like Q and A.

[A]

He's amazing.

[B]

I'm like, fucking hell. That's awesome.

[A]

He is the king of storytelling.

[B]

Oh, my God, yes.

[A]

So I would watch his videos, and then I would come up with a topic of a video. And then I'd go into, like, Seoul on the weekend and I'd tell a story throughout the whole course of this video. And then that channel that YouTube channel went from about 30,000 subscribers to 80,000 subscribers while I was in Korea. Every night before I go to bed, I'd write handwritten thank you notes for people who placed orders. I shipped them from Korea back to the States thanking them, and within 90 days of being in Korea, we went from doing $2,000 a month in revenue to $10,000 a month in revenue.

[B]

Man, that's wild.

[A]

It was a crazy ride over there.

[B]

So your channel now though is well into the seven figures. Has it been, did you notice at a point where the growth needle just started accelerating more towards vertical or has it just been can like. I mean, I think probably the best people could ask for would be a steady 45 degree angle up. What was the biggest difference you noticed? Was it just the thoughtfulness and the intention that you had to what it is that you were doing?

[A]

It was the intention. It was like in the beginning, I.

[B]

Feel like consistency too.

[A]

Consistency is massive for platforms like YouTube.

[B]

Yeah. Because you can have all the intention in the world. If you drop a video every other year, I don't really care how good it is. Yeah, you know.

[A]

Well, if I think back to the beginning of YouTube, it was literally just taking a dart and throwing it at a board and whatever would stick. That's why I'd go film. I was filming 10,000 and 20,000 calorie eating challenge videos. I was like whatever I could, whatever I could think of to film. That's what I was filming and where a lot of it actually started shifting. One in Korea and the videos I was producing in Korea, those were catching wind. And that was growing the audience, but very slowly. And then when I got back from Korea, this was late 2016, I started transitioning out of the military, got out in 2017. It was me, my brother Preston, who moved down from Pennsylvania to Texas, and then our first employee and friend Joe, who they both still work for me and with me, it was the three of us. We were operating out of a house that I owned in Temple, Texas that I bought with a VA loan. We signed our first warehouse lease for a 6,000 square foot warehouse and we went all in, went all into building the business. And that year 2017, we did 1.7 million in revenue.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

It was the hardest year of my entire life. Cash flow was an absolute nightmare.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I could see that for sure. People would hear that 1.7 like, what are you talking about? Cash flow shouldn't be a problem.

[A]

So the way how it works. Yeah, like, I think if I would have said you know, in 2017. Yeah, we're a seven figure business. People would say, oh, like you made it. Oh, no. Like our business bank account some weeks had fifteen hundred dollars in it.

[B]

It's not wild how sometimes you get really close to the treetops. So close, externally, people think you are just. That would be the best phrase. You're on a gravy train with biscuit wheels, to use a metaphor that nobody has probably ever heard or will understand. But yeah. And then internally you look and you're like, I think we may or may not make payroll.

[A]

Many nights like that, I would lay in, lay in bed and I have to take mega doses of melatonin to fall asleep because I was so stressed. But if you gave me the opportunity right now to go relive 2017, hell yeah, I would do it in an instant. That was the most fun year of my entire life. And the reason cash flow is so tight is like we talked about previously, I didn't have people in business growing up that could teach me about financing, inventory, lines of credit, additional loans. Like my grandpa being a farmer taught me that the money you have to spend is the money that's in your account. So we had a manufacturer then, and we didn't have any terms with that manufacturer. So when we would place a production order, it was 50% cash for that production order down. We had 12 week lead times. And then before they shipped it from the manufacturing facility to us, I had to pay off the rest. So I'd have to pay off all the inventory before we received it. And we're selling through it so fast that I was having to stack production orders. So 12 weeks out, 10 weeks out, eight weeks out, six weeks out, four.

[B]

Weeks out of checks going out.

[A]

So all this money was tied up in inventory with manufacturers and somehow we just, every time we just bridged it. And we would do. If people have been buying from us since 2017, they probably remember they would get emails and say, flash sale for the next eight hours, 25% off. We were doing those flash sales because we needed money in the next three days to pay rent.

[B]

Yeah, you needed to bridge the capital. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually think about those emails when I see them. Like I wonder if they have excess inventory or. There is a legit existential crisis operating behind the scenes that is causing this.

[A]

For sure. Yeah, I think there's strategies sometimes, but.

[B]

Also sometimes it's, it's, I need money as fast as humanly possible so we can get through the next page.

[A]

It's emergency funding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How did the army feel about your YouTube videos? Did they really care?

[A]

I had a boss, my company commander. And I had the conversation with him before it really started turning into something, and he was completely cool with it. So we had that conversation. But it was like I was probably one of the first people in the military that was filming YouTube videos. I'm sure today there'd be different feelings because of where social media is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I try to keep it secret for as long as possible and really separate those two lives. So when I was filming YouTube videos on the weekends and at home, documenting the business behind the scenes.

[B]

And you're editing all these yourself?

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, like my. My schedule back then was like, get back from work from the army, go to the gym, film videos till 10, 11pm, edit until 1am and then sleep for a few hours.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then be at PT the next morning. And I would sleep between the time PT was over and, you know, first call at work and then during my lunch, I was always sleeping in my truck.

[B]

I had some good naps in my truck. Would you go front seat or back seat?

[A]

Front seat. Yeah, front seat. Recline.

[B]

Yep. It's not bad.

[A]

But I remember, I'll never forget this day where I was filming these YouTube videos and I thought I had these two lives separated. I had my army life, I had my BPN YouTube life. I come into work one morning for PT and I could hear my voice. I'm like, what is that? I can hear like somebody's watching one of your videos. Everyone was watching all my videos, and it was this video of me deadlifting in bright neon green tights. And I've never been so embarrassed in my life when I. When I saw them see me.

[B]

The move is actually you go back to the barracks and put them on and then go into work wearing them.

[A]

I should have, but it was very interesting where the entire company, it was an entire infantry company, they embraced it. They were super supportive. Like they were rooting for me. They wanted to see me win.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

So it was completely different and unique compared to what I thought it was. So. Yeah. Lieutenant. Lieutenant Bears is that guy who, who goes into the gym with like skin tight shorts on and deadlifts and films himself.

[B]

Skin tight shorts. Did you go codpiece?

[A]

Oh, it was fully exposed.

[B]

I mean, that's what I'm saying. I would. You know, you could enhance there. You could go socks, sweet potatoes, front and back if you wanted to keep people guessing.

[A]

Well, I manipulated the camera angles to make sure that, of course.

[B]

Of course you did, yes.

[A]

You're professional. You figure out the angles. Yeah.

[B]

Man, that would be a rough one to walk into work and. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I mean, you just gotta own it.

[B]

That's all you can do.

[A]

That's all I could do.

[B]

Yeah. You can't put that genie back in the bottle.

[A]

That's all I could do is just own it. But they were super supportive and, you know, I'm glad it worked out that way.

[B]

Did you ever consider doing more than four years in the Army?

[A]

Yeah. So when I was at Fort Hood, I applied. So there was a long range surveillance unit at Fort Hood. It was a core asset. And there were three or four platoons that was part of this long range surveillance unit. So there was one platoon leader spot that opened up and I tried out for that platoon leader spot. I got selected to take that spot. So I was supposed to take that platoon. So I believe it was deployment to Afghanistan. But my brigade commander once signed my 4187 to, I believe it's called 4187 to release me from my current unit.

[B]

Oh, you probably had time. You owed him. Still on the books.

[A]

Yeah. So he won't let me go. So instead of going to that long range surveillance unit, I ended up going to South Korea with my unit. And then when I got to South Korea, that's when I made the decision. I'm gonna get out after this contract's up.

[B]

What's the biggest takeaway you took from your time in the military? What do you think? I mean, young in your life, but probably more life experience than most. I joined when I was, I joined when I was 17. I didn't go in until I was 18, but, you know, it was a different period of my life. You had college behind you. You had a little bit more life experience four years in, got to see some other countries. What'd you take from that?

[A]

Say a few different things. One, very grateful for my experience in a leadership position. And what I learned from, I had a really good non commissioned officers that developed me and led me. I mean, I learned more from my non commissioned officers than my officer leadership.

[B]

The non commissioned officers, I think at every military branch, they know how the sausage is made.

[A]

It was incredible. Like me and my platoon sergeant had an incredible relationship, worked very well together. But I've taken a lot of the things I learned there in terms of developing teams, building teams, the importance and power in culture and camaraderie and serving a greater mission than yourself, applying that to the business. I think also something that's very unique that the military teaches you that just going to the business world can't teach you is that when you go into business, there's a financial incentive that people are working towards. Oh, you want me to do this? Well, how much more money am I gonna get paid?

[B]

Say, what do I get for it?

[A]

What's the bonus? How much equity do I get?

[B]

Meanwhile, it's clearly in their fucking job description, just a part of their daily job. How about none? How about you get your paycheck?

[A]

Right? And I'm not saying my business or my team or employees ask or do.

[B]

Those things, but many do. It's very common.

[A]

And, and if we look at the entire work force culture, there is a financial incentive, typically for the work that is required. But in the military, it doesn't matter if you work 20, 30, 40 extra hours a week or you're doing something much harder than you typically have to do. There's no additional typically no financial Excel spreadsheet incentive.

[B]

How many years in, what is your rank? Find where those two converge.

[A]

Correct. So I think having that experience, the platoon leader and learning and finding out what motivates individuals and building true team and culture, I've directly applied that to my business. Yeah, the culture is my biggest focus in building a team, a true team that's serving a larger mission and purpose greater than yourself, and that's greater than financial incentive. And then coming around out of, out of high school and college and going right to Fort Benning, I needed that humbling experience to realize that nothing is given and everything is earned. So like, you know, my first school was infantry Officer basic course. And what did they do for boot.

[B]

Camp for you guys? For rotc?

[A]

That's considered like our introductory.

[B]

That's your transition from civilian to military. Okay, Correct.

[A]

So it was like 17 weeks in the Trophyser Basic Leader course. And there, I mean, there were hard parts of it, but nothing too hard. And then I went right into Ranger school and I thought Ranger school would be hard, which it was, but I thought I could go straight through 61 day leadership tactical evaluation course. I failed two phases and one of those phases was during the best Ranger Competition. So I failed the first phase. It was a six week holdover. So I was at Fort Benning for an additional six weeks pass. One of the second phase, mountains failed that phase had to do mountains over again.

[B]

What's the first phase? What do you guys do there?

[A]

It's in Fort Benning. Okay, so you have like Rap Week which is all the physical assessment training and then you go into patrols.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then if you graduate, you move on to mountains. From mountains to Florida. So I failed a phase in Florida or sorry, I failed a phase in Benning and I failed a mountain phase. So it took me four and a half months, 145 days to go through the 61 day course. I didn't think I was ever getting out of there. But the lessons I took away from there, from that experience was, oh, nothing is given, everything is earned and it's gonna be much harder than you expect it to be. So applying that to business, just going into it with the realization expectation of from this point on, nothing is going to be easy and everything that I earn and get, I'm have to work for.

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting you talk about culture the way that you do. I completely agree. I'd be curious your thoughts. I actually think military leadership is far easier than business leadership or civilian leadership because of what you talked about. For whatever reason that brought people to the military, they're there. And there's a few things that the military leadership ecosystem provides that the civilian one doesn't. One being a contract that will go to jail if you decide to violate said contract. And there are punitive measures. But the reality is they're all there. They're bought in largely, I would say not all the way, but largely to the mission. You know, what the pay is, the motivations, you know, they may vary. But then you get into the civilian world and you don't really know why somebody is coming to get a job for you. Is it just the first job that they can get because they're in a financial crisis? Do they truly believe what you believe is a core value for yourself or the company? What motivates them? Can you talk to them the same way that you did in the military? I don't know about the community you worked in. I would say negative reinforcement was a large tool that we used inside of the community that I came from. If I talked to people at the coffee shop like that, I would have zero employees. If they stuck around, they'd be awesome employees and we'd have some good laughs. But I don't think one person can run that entire shop. Yeah, it's harder outside owning a coffee shop and having 30 plus male and female, average age of 22 employees working for you is harder than a SEAL platoon. Because those people at a SEAL platoon, they had been grinding for two years just to even get there on their first day. They're so Bought in. They get the mission. You tell them to do something, they will kill themselves. It's not the same in the civilian world.

[A]

Yeah, you gotta.

[B]

You gotta connect with people where they're at, not where you want them to be. You gotta find the vernacular that fits with them, find the motivation that works with them. And for like, for me, on a coffee shop, let me just tell you, I have yet to meet the person that says, you know, I actually want this to be my career. I would like to serve coffee my entire life. So, you know, it's transitory.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's tough, man.

[A]

Yeah. I guess it depends on the type of business. But also, I'm sure our experiences in the military were different because you coming from a Special Forces community, the level of expectation and standard there.

[B]

Well, and screening too. Like, you have to work your way through quite a few crucibles to get there. Like, by the time you get there, buy in is not the question.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, so it's. And that's why it's so easy, though. Can you imagine a team of people in any business that had to work 24 to 36 months in a crucible that most people don't succeed at to arrive at their first day on the job they're in? They're not going anywhere. You could almost. As long as you explain to them the importance of the mission and what you needed to do. Like, good luck stopping those people. Yeah, you could almost. It actually, what it actually does is it hides bad leadership because they're so bought in that they will succeed in spite of poor leaders above them. And I saw this in the SEAL community. It's not a. It is not a community of. Of magic and perfection. The best leaders I ever worked with were in that community. And the worst leaders I ever worked with were in that community, but we never failed. So sometimes you're succeeding in spite of the leadership above you because you're so bought in on that mission. It's a different world.

[A]

Yeah. My experience comes from a line infantry unit, so really you just get what you get.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You gotta make it work.

[B]

Yeah. Threaten them with no pay and no leave. You know, it's like, take their weekends away.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm joking. For any military leaders out there, I'm. I'm fucking joking.

[A]

Well, with.

[B]

Except for some people that actually does.

[A]

Work with the business. It took me a long time to get the team to where it's at right now. And it was not. I didn't make all the right hiring decisions right away.

[B]

Same.

[A]

And I've unfortunately had to let a lot of people go. That's the worst part.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

It's the hardest part. But my team is in a great spot right now. We have the right people in the right seats. That's one of the hardest parts. Sometimes you can have the right person, but if they're in the wrong seat, you are setting them up for failure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's. You have the right person and you have that person in the right seat. And it's taken me many years to get the team to where it's at right now. But that's come with a lot of. A lot of honestly, hiring mistakes. Hiring too fast. Like, one of my favorite quotes is higher slow hire slow fire fast. Yeah.

[B]

Did you go to airborne after Ranger school?

[A]

I did, yeah.

[B]

Okay. I ask everybody who's gone there because I went to bedding too. Was it still three weeks when you were there?

[A]

Three weeks, yeah.

[B]

If you had the ability to shorten that course, what do you think is the minimum amount of time required to teach you everything you learned in basic or in. Yeah, basic. Airborne?

[A]

Seven to ten days.

[B]

My guess is two. I look at back the PLFs, the swing landing trainers, the amount of time we spent on those. Rubber or just wood chip? Just. Okay, PLF to your left. PLF to your right. My God, I was.

[A]

I was in the worst headspace in that school too, because I went right after graduating Ranger school. So that point I was like, I don't want to deal with any more.

[B]

Yeah, crap. And there's Sergeant Airborne right in your face.

[A]

Right. And I also had like, this kind of chip my shoulder, like, ego. I. I now have a ranger tab on my shoulder, like, which is just so immature and naive and. God, stupid.

[B]

What'd you think of your first jump there?

[A]

I remember it just got hit and the wind knocked out of me. Yeah, I vividly remember that jump on landing. Oh, yeah.

[B]

How were your nerves up in the airplane getting ready to jump?

[A]

Oh, I was pissing my pants.

[B]

Same. I was wedge. I look back, I'm really glad I wasn't the first person in my stick staring at the open door. I was on a. We were on the C130. Who knows how many people we had? But when the train started moving, like, you're not stopping that.

[A]

I mean, my heart's beating faster just thinking about that right now.

[B]

Are you serious?

[A]

I'm dead serious, man.

[B]

It's not that bad. Parachutes probably gonna open. No, I mean, I was dead center. It just. I remember, you know, the hookup Check static lines, all that stuff. And then it just started going like, you know, stop at that in the middle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know if I would have gone if I was the first person out, though. I fell in love with skydiving afterwards, but static line is just a different. It's a different beast.

[A]

Yeah. I've never done skydiving or free fall or anything really.

[B]

Like, never you in like a tandem?

[A]

No.

[B]

Never been in the wind tunnel.

[A]

I've been in the wind tunnel, yeah.

[B]

Wind tunnel is fun. Saves you time. You have to pack a parachute on to fly in an airplane. It feels exactly the same.

[A]

Yeah. Me, my wife did that for a date night one night, and it was a blast.

[B]

Yeah, it's cool.

[A]

But I never. I'll never forget my first jump where I pulled one of the risers when you're not supposed to pull it. And I just remember hitting the ground so hard backwards and just. Just trying to breathe.

[B]

You and I had the same experience. I went after two and a half weeks of practicing the most perfect plf, I went heels, head backwards and had a headache for about a week. But I remember laying there as the parachute was drifting down thinking, I don't know if I can survive four more of these. And thankfully I did a better PLF on the other ones. But, yeah, I mean, straight heel, head backwards, just crack. It's great.

[A]

Gosh.

[B]

I mean, as they're yelling at people on bullhorns, turn away, turn away. And it's like, what guy should turn away? The dude wearing camo with the green parachute. So everybody is up there turning. Or there was one where the, you know, the guys on the bullhorn were like, jumper with a malfunction, pull your reserve. Like, nine people pulled their reserve without malfunctions because they're just hearing the voice of God from below them yell, pull your reserve.

[A]

Oh, if I hear that, I'm pulling my reserve.

[B]

I mean, you need to look up and assess your canopy. You may not need to just like, okay.

[A]

At what point in your. Your military career were you at airborne school? Was it early on?

[B]

Right after buds, they sent my entire BUDS class, which was a horrible decision. Let me just add, we graduated buds. I think we had a weekend off. And then a bunch of us caravan in vehicles, stopping only in New Orleans to get completely blackout drunk.

[A]

I'm sure you guys just ran through Columbus, Georgia.

[B]

We, who knows? Straight to airborne. And then that's where they separated guys from east coast teams and west coast teams. But it was not a good idea to send Us all there. We were what I would describe as a leadership issue, a disciplinary issue.

[A]

I can imagine that.

[B]

Yeah, it's like, same thing, just the hubris of showing up. And I don't know if you guys know this, but I just graduated. But not even qualified as a seal. Not even remotely near being qualified. And of course, our buddies were there too, so it's just horrible, horrible military decision.

[A]

Were you 21 yet at that point?

[B]

Oh, God, no. I turned 20 in Seoul, Korea. Just shit faced at my first SEAL team. We were over there for FAL Eagle. I've been to FAL Eagle like five times. The Korean exercise?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Chinhae Busan. Like all over Korea. Korea's beautiful.

[A]

I loved being in Korea.

[B]

Yeah. Seoul is a crazy town. Now I remember I checked into SEAL Team 5. I was 19. And they're like, hey, there's some platoons in Korea for an exercise. Here is your middle seat, economy class ticket. You know, link up with the guys when you get there.

[A]

Like, okay, so when you were in high school, did you know you were gonna join the SEALs? Was that always the plan?

[B]

I knew I wanted to try since I was about 11, and I don't know why.

[A]

And you were in what, 17 years?

[B]

Just under 17, yes. A month shy of 17 years.

[A]

So how long have you been out now?

[B]

I got the last day of June, 2013. So coming up on 12 years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Does it feel like it was yesterday still?

[B]

Sometimes. And then sometimes I'm actually enjoying that. I'm having a hard time remembering some of the details. Like it's just something that I've been able to move past. I'll never be able to completely move past it, but my fear is that it will be all that I'm ever like, people would ever look at. You know what I mean? All you're ever known. For which I'm very proud of my time in the military and I'm glad I did the job that I did. But I also don't want to 30 years from now be the guy talking about shit that happened 2002.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, it's a tough balance.

[A]

So when you got out, what was the. The vision for what you wanted to do next?

[B]

So I was working for CrossFit at the time, so I was rehabbing from an injury. I call it a workplace injury, non OSHA approved in 2005. So I rehabbed and I moved from the command I was at to BUDS as an instructor to allow me to basically continue rehabbing. And while I was there, I ran into and met the founder of CrossFit and a guy that had been working from him, working for him, that I was born and raised in Santa Cruz, he was from Watsonville, he made the introduction and the company was. I don't want to say it was new, but it was in its infancy of its growth curve that it went through in the later aughts, if you will, like the 8, 9, 10, when it was kind of really exploding and they were starting to do some military seminars. So the first time I ever actually worked for the company, I went and shadowed a course up in la and then they took me up to Edmonton. And so I originally started just moonlighting on the weekends while in the military at buds as an instructor. On the weekends I would go teach the seminars because they worked Saturday, Sundays at that time. By the time in 2010, see 2013, 2010, I was still doing the seminars. I got back from that deployment in 2010, switched over more to the business development and sponsorship stuff, got out in 2013. I was just gonna kinda work for them full time was the plan. And that lasted about a year and then I quit. And I didn't really have a plan after that.

[A]

Why'd you quit?

[B]

Oh, dear God. Have you ever gotten to a place where you are so morally disgusted with yourself for putting up with behavior that you know you don't agree with because you're getting a paycheck and you tolerate it and you just find yourself in a place you can't anymore? That's why I quit. It's the most precise way I can describe it without starting to get into the realm of. He's a very litigious man. Yeah, he's got a lot of money, but it's okay because I have a lot of fucking receipts. More than people could ever fathom.

[A]

So this was 2013, 2014.

[B]

2014, yeah.

[A]

The first CrossFit Games was 2012, right? Pooh.

[B]

Michael, look that one up. I want to say it was before that. I finished 10th at the first CrossFit Games.

[A]

Oh, you did?

[B]

There was only nine competitors, but it's not a big deal.

[A]

You know Jason Kleepa well? Yeah, yeah, he's seven.

[B]

Oh, seven. He's a monster.

[A]

Seven.

[B]

I don't like the fact that we teach athletic people jiu Jitsu like that. He is like rolling with. Not that I've ever fought a gorilla, but I feel like that's what it would be.

[A]

He's just like dense too, dude.

[B]

He is big and he has got a gas tank that I am not sure Has a bottom so you can't outpace the dude. Your only hope is to stay a little bit ahead of him with technique. And yeah, he's an absolute fucking nightmare.

[A]

Do you still train CrossFit style?

[B]

My training methodology. God, you would be so underwhelmed with it. I got exhausted by being around barbells because of how much I was around it. And there was a really, it was a interesting double edged sword being around all the games athletes for so long there. It's. It's dangerous because in one regard they're so wildly inspirational in what they're able to do. But if you're only always working out with those people and you're a pure hobbyist, you end up feeling like a piece of. Because you just get destroyed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, and I'm working for the company and I'm like, not that I was out of shape, but I'm like, I can't you guys do this full time. I just. It kind of burned me out a little bit. And then I found jiu jitsu shortly after we moved up here and haven't touched a barbell consistently since then. And for an honestly, for the first couple years after that, God, my body felt better than it had in a really long time. So I just, it was a combination of both of those things. But I mean, at the age I'm at now, I need to get back into the gym. Struggling to find motivation to do so. If I'm being honest.

[A]

It's just like, why do you ever get into running?

[B]

No, I hate running. I think it promotes cowardice. I know that you run your ass off.

[A]

I run a lot this honestly, like.

[B]

I have nerve damage in my left leg and my. So two things happen. I can run. It's gotta be for me, very linear. I can't do left and right. I'll either. So what ends up happening is if I run enough, I'll end up rolling my ankle, which I have a really hard time controlling the stability of my ankle. Or my gate is just right messed up enough from the nerve damage that I'll start feeling it in my hip. It's like a little bit of the best analogy I have is, you know when you have like a flat tire in your car and it's like it eventually just smashes my hip.

[A]

That's the thing with running. If like your biomechanics aren't dialed, you.

[B]

Can build other biomechanics and then your body just destroys itself.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, oh, my knee hurts and will. But, but it's not knee pain. Like it's coming from the ankle or it's coming from the hip. And yeah, it's actually crushed me. You know, I'm in Montana. I flew in this morning. I fly back on tonight. The fact that I can't run while I'm in Montana because of the short trip.

[B]

Did you run your ass off? Why do you do this?

[A]

I honestly, I love the mental aspect of it much more than the physical.

[B]

Do you listen to music?

[A]

No. I will listen to podcasts or audiobooks in the morning because I run. I run in the morning, so all my running is done. I will either listen to an audiobook or a podcast or nothing. I'll just think. But if I listen to an audiobook or a podcast while I'm running, I can digest that information so much more efficiently.

[B]

Yeah, I think you're. You pull a lot of the filters down.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I have no explanation as to how this works because I'm an idiot and not a doctor, nor do I understand how the brain works. But I know exactly what you're talking about. For whatever reason, your body. And maybe it's because you're just tolerating the effort that you're putting through. Like, the little force field is down a little bit. I find the same thing to be true.

[A]

Like, the other day I was running and I was really into this audiobook and I blacked out for probably three miles. And I. I came to. I came to and I was like, holy crap, I'm running right now. I'm not. I'm not even lying. I was like, yeah, I'm running right now. And I. I don't know where my mind's been the last three miles. I just, I looked down like, how did I get here?

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

It took a long time to get to that point.

[B]

Well, when did you get so deep into running? Because you do run your ass off.

[A]

I run a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when I got out of the military, I said in a YouTube video, I will never run a day in my life again. And I dedicated that whole year just getting as big and strong as possible soldiers. Yeah, I was deadlifting, like three times a week. I got my deadlift up to £700.

[B]

What?

[A]

That was my PR pull. There's no. I can't get any close to pulling that right now.

[B]

Skin tight leotard while doing this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Yep. Skin tight in front of, like, in front of probably 100 people.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And it was a deadlift bar. And I pulled that way. I mean, that was the biggest pull of my life.

[B]

That's, that's a heavy pull for sure for your average, even beyond even for just an athlete. That's a heavy poll for a powerlifter. They might laugh at us both for this conversation, but for 99.9% of people, that's more weight than they'll ever get off the ground.

[A]

Yeah, I will forever be proud of that.

[B]

You should be proud of that.

[A]

And there's no way I'm ever getting that again.

[B]

You know, imagine what it would take. Oh my God.

[A]

I was, I was. All I was doing was deadlifting and eating. I mean, me and my brother would, we'd train at night and then we'd go and to in and out and we get two double doubles each, we get two orders of fries each, all animal style. I was 230 pounds. But when I got out of the army, I said, I'll never run a day in my life again. I didn't run for about a year and I started getting this itch. There's something like missing. I just don't feel functional anymore. I was £230. I was strong, I was big, but I didn't feel fit. So I signed up for the Austin marathon that year. And I didn't know how to train, didn't really train right. I ran 3 hours 57 minutes. It was a complete struggle fest. And then I ran that same marathon the year after. I ran slower. I ran 4 hours 15 minutes. And then I told myself, okay, I'm actually gonna put an effort into this. And then I signed up for my first Ironman triathlon. I did my First Ironman in 2019. And then after that I said I wanted to do a sub three hour marathon. And kind of like when I said, told my dad I was gonna make a million dollars that first year, I thought I was gonna run a sub three hour marathon the first year I said I was gonna do it. I trained my ass off. I ran a 324, so I missed it by 24 minutes, which is a pretty significant miss.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I trained for a whole nother year and then I ran a 256. And then from there it was just like this endurance obsession where I, I trained for ultras. I did Leadville 100, Rocky Raccoon 100. Did the last Man Standing race in Pineland Farms, Maine. I got my marathon from a 256 to a 2:48 to a 2:39.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

And I just became obsessed with running and endurance training and just, you Know, setting a new target and then going all in and obsessing to accomplish it. And I just kept doing that for years and years and years.

[B]

How'd that first run feel when you weighed 230?

[A]

Oh, I mean I have videos of it still. And talking about biomechanics, things just didn't move.

[B]

Your cardio must have just been non existent too.

[A]

And the best part is we've documented all of this.

[B]

Oh, that's amazing.

[A]

So we have this video from. I believe it was my second marathon. Might, might have been my first marathon. But I'm giving an update to the cameraman during the marathon. I'm just standing on the side of the course being like right now, you know, like I'm cramping, it hurts. And thinking back to then compared to now, like when I'm in a race now seconds matter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like even grabbing water on the side of the course, you don't stop moving.

[B]

Oh yeah. Makes sense.

[A]

But when, you know, looking back at those videos back then my body just didn't know how to move. But it's incredible what the body does with time and stress and stimulus where. And consistency inconsistency where I didn't have to necessarily make these changes to my form. The form happened on its own because my body wanted to become more efficient. So my gait changed, my body composition changed, I just, I just got better at running over time.

[B]

But how many miles do you put in a week do you think?

[A]

Right now between 50 and 60 miles a week.

[B]

What kind of shoes do you wear?

[A]

So my go to shoe right now is the Saucony Endorphin speed or the ASICS Magic Speed 4. And then if I do like a speed workout, like a track workout or a tempo workout, I'll wear a carbon base plated shoe.

[B]

The debate between like the zero drop shoes and a little bit of elevated in the heel again, I got exposed to the pose running method. Not that I'm an expert in it by any stretch, but I understand, you know, leaning forward, driving from your toes, not letting your heel strike. What are your thoughts on all that?

[A]

So I've tried zero drop shoes like ultras or zero drop shoes and it takes some time to get used to. If you go from a regular running shoe that has an elevated heel to a zero drop shoe, we should describe.

[B]

What we're talking about. People like these guys are in space.

[A]

Essentially it's a flat shoe. It's a flat shoe where the heel is not elevated.

[B]

Yeah. Which feels great to walk. I actually. So one of the first CrossFit shoes from Reebok was a zero drop shoe with a barefoot last. So your toes were spread out more. I found it to be fantastically comfortable to walk around when and exercise in, but I never did any long distance running in it.

[A]

I mean, your feet are naturally supposed to. Your toes should spread and grab the ground. Ultras are shoes that have zero drop and they have wider toe boxes so your feet can actually, your toes can spread. I think Altras are great shoes for just like everyday wear. But if you go from wearing a regular running shoe where your feet are really compressed in, your toes are compressed in, your heels elevated, you. You go from something like that to an ultra, you go for a run, your calves are gonna blow up like you will, you will feel that run.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the way that like my biomechanics work, I naturally have a little bit of a heel strike.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So a zero drop shoe just kind of does damage to my body.

[B]

It's just gonna go straight up your spinal column.

[A]

Yeah. And I just like, I've tried to make adjustments to my biomechanics, but I just have naturally a little bit of a heel strike, which hasn't caused issues or injuries or anything over time. But I always go with like a shoe that just feels better.

[B]

Okay. How do you keep yourself from getting burned out running? That's what got me because I used to run quite a bit before the injury. I actually really enjoyed it. And now I enjoy the fact I don't have to run. And I have a good excuse for it, even though I probably could run if I wanted to. I just got to be careful. But burnout for me is the biggest thing that I always bump up against.

[A]

I think it becomes an addiction where if I don't have my morning run, it throws my day off sometimes to even my detriment if I'll wake up some mornings. And I know I shouldn't run because I'm tired, I'm beat down. That first mile feels like crap. But I'm still going to finish that eight mile run in the morning because it unlocks something in me mentally that I'm gonna use for that day.

[B]

Will you back off your pace at all? I mean, I'll back off.

[A]

I'll back off my pace.

[B]

What's a casual running pace for you?

[A]

Like 7:37 minutes, 30 seconds?

[B]

That's like third gear for you, just cruising along.

[A]

Yeah, like my, my. When I ran the 239 marathon, my pace for 26 miles was like 6:05.

[B]

That is insane.

[A]

That was my best, the best run of my entire life was that marathon.

[B]

How do you think it collided to be that day? What did you do differently?

[A]

My prep was dialed in, you know, when I was in a prep like that, because I'll do a build. So it'll be like a 16 week prep where we increase training volume. I'll get to like 70, 75 miles a week. And the way my week is structured during a prep is Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. Those are easy runs. When I say easy, it's just you're keeping your heart rate lower.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm running 10 to 11 miles.

[B]

A day, which most people, for clarity, would not define as easy. But moving on, it's, it's all relative.

[A]

Wednesdays are always a speed day, so it's either on the track or a tempo run. This is higher volume, but higher intensity. You're doing faster paces, getting your legs used to turning over. And then Saturdays is a long run. And the closer you get to a marathon, you're doing very intentionally structured training runs. So that might look like, okay on a Saturday, eight weeks out from a race, I have 20 miles. It might start with like a six mile warmup and then you'll do three miles at marathon pace, one mile back off, three miles at marathon pace, one miles back off, three miles of marathon pace. And they're structured in that way to one get your body used to holding your marathon pace, but also building confidence. So you finish this marathon paced workout 20 miles. It didn't bury you, but you're like, oh, I can, I can hold a 5,50 minute per mile pace for three miles comfortably. I can definitely do that is 605.

[B]

That is so fast.

[A]

But this is the power of consistency. Yeah, you look at my, my running back in 2017, 2018, compared to where it is now. That's just been years and years of being extremely consistent. Like one of my favorite quotes my running coach, Jeff Cunningham says is it's better to be consistently good than occasionally great.

[B]

I would agree with that.

[A]

And I think that is my greatest strength in life, in business and all the things that I've done. I'm just very, very consistent. I'm never going to be the person that is standing on the podium or does something extremely remarkable. But I can guarantee you, day in and day out, I'm going to put in the work, put in the effort and show up. So for me, logging that eight mile run five to six days a week, that is my commitment to being consistent.

[B]

So putting all that work up, leading to the marathon. Is the marathon itself fun or are you breaking that thing down into micro goals and you're kind of lost in the pursuit of that? Are you actually enjoying yourself during that marathon?

[A]

There's moments where you enjoy it, but it's. You're so dialed in.

[B]

Yeah, I think you're like a scientist at that point, just doing an operation.

[A]

It's an operation from the, from the moment it starts to the moment it ends. You're. You're so aware of your body, your heart rate, your effort, your pace. You're constantly monitoring pace. If you're. You're staying on top of fuel in hydration, electrolytes. If you, if you feel any sort of twitch in your hamstring that could lead to a cramp, you're trying to get ahead of it as fast as possible. Getting salt in, getting electrolytes in. And then, you know, say you get to mile 17, you realize you're ahead of pace, you're not slowing down, everything's on track. Then you can start having some fun. But I think the issue when you go for a big marathon goal like that is if you start trying to enjoy it too soon, you lose track of the awareness that you have to have to get you to the finish line.

[B]

I think my favorite marathon videos are people accidentally shitting their pants.

[A]

That happens.

[B]

I've seen it on YouTube.

[A]

You know what actually inspired me to do my first.

[B]

Please don't say somebody should.

[A]

My first Iron Man. No, close. There's actually this video. I think it was an ultra last year and it was being live streamed and the, the camera comes up next to this woman who's running and she's like, don't film me. I just shit myself.

[B]

I have seen this video. It's spectacular. Michael, I believe we need to play this. Do your job over there. It's worth it. Have you seen this video, Michael? Yeah.

[A]

That's incredible. But what, what inspired me to do my first Iron man ever is I believe it was the year 1982. I wasn't alive then, but I watched the video and this woman at the Ironman World Championships, her name is Julie Moss. We should watch that video next.

[B]

Okay. Not yet, Michael.

[A]

I'll explain it then.

[B]

Okay, ready? Hit it. First off, no break in stride, no emotion, purely. I'm going to provide you objective data and move on with my day.

[A]

That's the best part.

[B]

Was she at least close to being done? I don't know because I've never shit myself while running, but I feel like it wouldn't Be super awesome to continue running covered in your own shit.

[A]

Do an ultra and you will have all of those experiences.

[B]

Well, that's a really good selling point for me never to do one. Just for clarity, I have. I was with a friend one time who shit in a wetsuit. Let me tell you. That was everywhere. He. He got hosed off afterwards. It made its way all the way up his back into his armpits.

[A]

That's horrible.

[B]

Oh, it was. I don't know what he was thinking at the time. He didn't tell us until the end of the evolution, but just. It was. It was like he had gone to a mud bath.

[A]

That's like. If you fart in a wetsuit, it doesn't escape until you take the wetsuit off.

[B]

You know what's the worst you get so used? We're in the water so much. The first thing you do anytime you're in a wetsuit and you get in the water is you have to piss. You got to remember the days you're wearing a dry suit. Cause it feels the same when you get into the water. And you need to be sure that you're. You gotta, like, check. Okay. This is a wetsuit. I can pee. Dry suit. No, don't pee.

[A]

What? It's a dry suit.

[B]

Dry suit is you stay dry. The water doesn't come through. It's. It's so you can wear, like, operation, like your op. Cami is underneath, but it still feels like you're in the water. So if you're used to taking a piss every time you get in the water and you piss in that thing that just goes down to your feet.

[A]

I've never. I've never worn a dry suit then.

[B]

Ever.

[A]

I. I don't think so. No.

[B]

I don't know why you guys would have. That would have been pretty nonsensical for. For the army, but no, these are. They're like immersion suits or Mustang survival suits.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, they have zippers. All they have a zipper for, so you can take a piss. That's also another fun one. Make sure you close that zipper up before you get into the water. Seen that happen a few times. Yeah, they're great. Until you. You have that tactical error. Lapse in judgment, if you will.

[A]

Gosh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, can we watch?

[B]

Oh, we can watch.

[A]

It's the 1982 Julie Moss.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Iron Man. I want to say it's. Yep.

[B]

I love how it almost immediately populated.

[A]

This is what inspired me to run my first Iron Man.

[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, this episode is brought to you by Brunt. I like boots. I was forced to wear boots for a good period of time in my life that they were not the most comfortable transitioning out of that role. Now I get to choose, pick and choose the boots that I wear. And I. I'm gonna be honest, I don't wear boots often, mostly because I don't do a lot of things that require that type of footwear. So when Brunt reached out, they offered me the chance to choose a pair of boots that I wanted to receive. So I went with the Ullman. And I'm gonna be honest, I have spent a good amount of time making fun of people who wear a slip on boot, a boot without laces. And if I'm being honest, I don't know why I made fun of them other than I had never tried a pair. So I didn't understand the convenience, the comfort, and I didn't have any. So therefore, I must make fun of those that did. These things showed up straight out of the box. I wish I had them today. It's the middle of the summer. It's not really boot season here in Montana, so these are going to be on the shelf for a little bit. Wore them around for the first few days and realized I'm kind of an idiot. I get why people wear this type of boot. The convenience of getting this thing on and off. Unbelievable comfort straight out of the box, no break in, period. It's a fantastic set of boots. They are lightweight, water resistant, slip and oil resistant, heat resistant and electrical hazard rated. Not what I'm going to be using them for. I'm going to be using them for. Honestly, when I learned how to fly the helicopter, the guy who was teaching me had a pretty dope set of boots on. So this can become aviation boots for me in the winter months or just work boots as the temperature cools off here a little bit in Montana. If you want to, you can try them too. You can join the over 500,000 customers that brunt has and they let you try them on the job. This is a really cool thing. Their products have free shipping. You can try them on the job. If you don't like them, send them back. Brunt didn't just make a durable work boot. They reinvented comfort for the hardest workers out there. For a limited time, listeners are going to get $10 off at Brunt by using the code CLEARED HOT. All one word, all uppercase. The way that I'm looking at it at checkout, just head to bruntworkwear.com and use the code cleared hot and you're all set. Even better, Brunt lets you try all of their products on the job. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support the show and tell them that my show sent you. Again bruntworkware.com using the code cleared hot, all caps, one word and let them know that I sent you back to the show.

[A]

There had been a lead change among the women. 23 year old Julie Moss, a former.

[B]

College student from Los Alamos.

[A]

Be like the finish line maybe. Maybe go towards the finish a little bit. She like struggles to get across the finish. Here it is.

[B]

Oh, her body's just fully quitting on.

[A]

So her body was just giving up on her and she was, she kept falling and she had to crawl to get to the finish line.

[B]

How so is this literally the electrical impulses in your body are no longer working?

[A]

Electrolyte balance is gone. Muscle fatigue.

[B]

How mentally from a mental acuity perspective, how, how in it is she here or is she loopy as well?

[A]

It's hard to say. I mean, the Ironman World Championships in Hawaii. So it's also like extreme, extremely hot and humid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm sure she's still like mentally with it.

[B]

She just cannot get her body to perform now.

[A]

It's just like get so dehydrated that you know when you're like the way your muscles contract is because of sodium concentration.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you're so depleted in electrolytes, if your muscles can't contract and move, they just don't work any longer.

[B]

So you watching a woman almost die on the finish line is what motivated you to want to do that?

[A]

I said I want that level of commitment and pain. And I mean, my first Iron Man, I had no clue I was doing when I started training and it was like a really hard race. Super humbling, but incredible experience.

[B]

If that was your headspace, seeing that, then you and I could be friends for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I see things like that. I'm like, okay, I want that. I'm in. I don't know. I don't know if I necessarily want that. I like the fact that it's that hard. I don't know if I want to look like, you know, Stephen Hawking going for a stroll his first day out of his wheelchair.

[A]

But, well, I think it's something about, like when you do something really challenging, I find that it unlocks this new part of your mind that you won't be able to unlock elsewhere.

[B]

Have you heard Goggins quote where he says most people quit at 40%. Yeah, I disagree with a lot of things that he says, but that one is so wildly accurate. And I actually would put the number way lower.

[A]

I would agree with that.

[B]

And then you start getting to those levels and you unlock whatever the next floor. Right. And then you find the ceiling there and then you unlock that. I think that's the value in those things for sure.

[A]

Yeah. I think a lot of people have these glass. I mean, I used to, when I was, when I was younger, I had this glass ceiling of where I thought I could get to for sure. And then you break that glass ceiling and eventually you realize that nothing is unbelievable or impossible. Like a hundred miles to me a long time ago felt literally impossible. And then I went and did it and I wrote so I, I can actually do this. Did you follow any of the race that we hosted about two weeks ago on our ranch?

[B]

No.

[A]

So it ended up going viral. But we hosted this race on our ranch two weeks ago. It was called the, the Go One More Ultra.

[B]

I did see some of this. Okay, I didn't know that was at your ranch.

[A]

Yeah, Okay.

[B]

I saw some of the footage. I just didn't know was directly associated with you.

[A]

So the 4.2 mile loop, it restarted every hour on the hour. We started with 120 runners and two runners battled it out. They ended up going 235 miles over 56 hours.

[B]

So you can get, you could do the loop, but then you had the rest of the hour, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So for example, if you finished the loop in 40 minutes, you had 20 minutes to rest. So there were three runners left up until I believe hour 30. And then that third one dropped. And then two runners battled it out from hour 30 to hour 56. And the only reason the race stopped is because this massive storm came into central Texas and we had to call the race, we had to pause it because it got so out of control.

[B]

How did you determine the winner?

[A]

So, I mean, this storm was a storm from God, I'm telling you. Like it came out of nowhere. And I thought there was a tornado coming in. It was pure chaos. We were rushing everyone up to the ranch house. The fields flooded, the course flooded. So I got both these runners and their crews in this ranch house. Everyone's soaked. And one of the runner, him and his family were from Costa Rica. The other runner, him and his family were from Germany. And I'm sitting in the middle between these two guys who for the last 26 hours were at war with each Other wanted to kill each other. And now I have them together. They're both laying on a couch. I said, here's what we can do. We can either we pause the race, obviously, we can wait out in the storm, go back out and restart it, which is kind of unfair because now you've rested, or we can call it a tie and both of you guys are the winner for this year. So they decided they were gonna share the win for this year. But. 235 miles. They are both 21 years old, 56 hours of running.

[B]

How long does it take to recover from that?

[A]

I mean, weeks. Fully recover?

[B]

Yeah, weeks.

[A]

Maybe months.

[B]

That's insane. Yeah, because you're gonna be at a deficit. Like your cardio system's not gonna work the way it's supposed to.

[A]

Your hormones, your hormones are wrecked.

[B]

God. Human beings are capable of some amazing things.

[A]

What was so incredible was you watch these guys, they'd come in towards the end, like 54 minutes, 55 minutes per loop. They'd have a few minutes to rest and they lined back up hour after hour after hour. I was like, this is never going to end. This race is literally never going to end. Because they started getting stronger towards the end of it. Oh, they started running faster loops. And it was.

[B]

Somebody would have died eventually. So it definitely would have ended.

[A]

It would have ended eventually.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But one of the, one of the runners, Kendall. So there's Kendall and Kim, these two 21 year old guys. And the Kendall, him and his crew had this sleep strategy where every time he come in from a loop, his crew would pull an air mattress up to the start finish line. He would come in, not miss a step. He'd face plant head down into the air mattress. Someone would tie a blindfold over him. Someone would stick earplugs in his ear and he'd pass out for two to three minutes. They wake him up, they shove food in his mouth and send him back out. It was the craziest thing to watch and experience.

[B]

Are you gonna do this again every year? Oh, Michael. I'm starting a new series called Andy Tries to kill Michael.

[A]

Well, I'll, I'll, I'll save a spot for you.

[B]

I feel like.

[A]

Can't wait.

[B]

Do you run at all, Michael?

[A]

No, Only for.

[B]

You have. It sounds like about 11 months.

[A]

Yeah. You got about a year to train, start training.

[B]

You're going next year.

[A]

It was super hot the weekend we did it too.

[B]

Oh, God, of course.

[A]

It was so. I mean, middle of the day was 96, 97, 98 degrees. Chad Wright was out there.

[B]

Chad is so hilarious.

[A]

True Haynes. Cam Son was out there.

[B]

Was he wearing jeans?

[A]

He didn't wear jeans.

[B]

What a puss. Oh, it's only for street marathons. That guy is an absolute machine.

[A]

I mean, he just keeps getting faster and faster.

[B]

I mean, again though, consistency, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the, the jeans thing is ridiculous, but I also deeply appreciate it.

[A]

He's an athlete for sure.

[B]

He is. Well, his genetics. His dad's a little bit of an athlete as well too. What are you going to do as you get older? I mean, speaking of. I mean, Cam is. The things that Cam is able to do at his age are unbelievable. But age is a real thing. It's coming for us all. How do you think he'll modulate your physical goals as you get older? Because you're only your 30s, right?

[A]

I'll be 35 this summer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It'll always be a balance of running and strength training. I think there's a lot of power and importance of each. But over time, I'll definitely pull back running volume, even like 50 to 60 miles a week. That has wear and tear.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

On not only the body, but the mind especially. You know, you mentioned earlier training with these professional athletes. I try to keep up with some professional athletes sometimes. And it'll destroy your ego. It destroys your ego. And I'll come home and after doing it for a few days and tell my wife, I'm like, man, I'm just like, I'm wiped. These guys are just running circles around me. She's like, yeah, because it's not your full time job. You're. You're running a business and you have a three year old and one year old.

[B]

You have to be careful with that. You got to keep that in check.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The way you talk to yourself or the comparative nature that we all have, like, this guy is just destroying me. What business do I have doing the same thing that they're doing? You got to be cautious with that one.

[A]

I, I think there's, there's a lot of power. And also just having the awareness and recognizing that there's certain things you might want to do in certain seasons and chapters of your life. But does that take away from your responsibilities? Yeah, because I know, like when I go into a big fitness prep, my mind is very focused on that prep and it pulls me away. Not intentionally, but it pulls me away from being the present father and husband and business leader that I want to be. So when I go into one of these challenges, moving forward, if and When I have to be aware that there's going to be collateral damage and consequences that come with that level of focus.

[B]

Do you have any desire to do any other endurance? I guess the closest thing might be an alpinism type thing like climbing mountains or stuff like that. Do you have any desire to do that type of endurance activity? Not like crazy technical like ice climbing, but just, you know, there's some races out there that have crazy vertical gains. Does that stuff interest you at all, or are you just.

[A]

There's a. There's the Leadville 100 Mountain Bike Race.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's something I've always been interested in. I would like to have a.

[B]

Do you own a mountain bike?

[A]

I don't own a mountain bike.

[B]

Perfect. You should sign up.

[A]

I want that. I like being the new guy in something, for sure.

[B]

I love being super exciting, learning new things. I truly think keeps you young.

[A]

For sure. Yeah. Like, I was. I was just talking to Chad at the race, and he's training for this thousand mile canoe or kayak race right now.

[B]

God damn it.

[A]

And it's like it's finding this thing outside of your area of genius that you're so comfortable with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To humble yourself and learn. So the. The mountain bike race has always been something that's been interesting to me. Outside of that, I've always wanted to find time to get into hunting. I just haven't done it yet. And I think part of the way that Cam describes, like, backcountry elk hunting has always had an appeal to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe at some point in chapter my life, like that will be of a challenge.

[B]

I dabble in it. By no stretch an expert, but it's a time suck as well. That's gonna be another one of those tranches that you're gonna have to figure out how much time you want to dedicate to it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And again, I can't speak for Cam, but I've had enough conversations with him and been around him enough that, you know, he takes it as seriously as he does because he wants to be the most. Most ethical hunter that he can be. As the hunters that I have the most respect for, all feel the same way. It's the. It's got it. I've wounded an animal before and not found it. It's the worst feeling in the world. And if that happens because you didn't put the prep time in, whether it's behind the bow or. Or on the cardiovascular system or the muscular system that's supporting all of that endeavor. Dude. It doesn't Feel great. So you have to dedicate an immense amount of time to it.

[A]

I'm not a dabbler.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not either. And that's my problem.

[A]

That's why I haven't pursued that yet.

[B]

Yeah, it would definitely. Knowing what I know about it, it would bump up against the time you allot to some other things, especially seasonally, because really especially if you're going to go for Rocky Mountain species, you'll have 60 to 90 days a year where you can get that in. That's it.

[A]

I found over time that I am most successful and fulfilled when I have very few things on my plate. Which doesn't mean I'm any less busy. But I'm all in on those things. Like right now it is my family, my business. Those are like my two areas of focus in my life right now. I'm not dabbling or trying these new things outside of that. That's why I'm not in a fitness prep right now is because it's family and business. But I've really learned just the power of refined focus.

[B]

How do you feel yourself for those endurance races? Because your degree is in nutrition, right?

[A]

Yeah. You mean like for the, the marathon, the ultra are very different.

[B]

Yeah, I mean just I guess for that, specifically those type of endurance event. And then what's your baseline strategy? Just for fuel.

[A]

So for an ultra, for example, I'll start there. For an ultra, it's, it's so different, unique because you're trying to get a certain amount of carbohydrates, calories and electrolytes in per hour. So if we look at like a 56 hour race, you might be trying to get 500 calories in per hour.

[B]

But it has to be a smaller volume. Right. And then you're not wanting to really fill your stomach up. Like probably shouldn't be eating a Subway foot long mid ultra.

[A]

Sometimes that's what sounds the best. I mean I'll always start an ultra with gels, bars and like liquid calories powders. But eventually your gut, your mind and your mouth want something different. So during ultras I've had quesadillas, pizza sandwiches, ramen noodles, whatever. Like really you can get down at a certain point. Like those guys that were running 56 hours, they just had to keep getting calories in. So an ultra that deep and that long becomes just as much an eating challenge as it is a running challenge.

[B]

Does your appetite wane as it starts going farther?

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Okay. But also forcing it down.

[A]

Well, your stomach starts churning too. Some People have a stomach of steel where 56 hours into a race, those two guys, their stomachs were completely fine.

[B]

They're just crushing calories, no issue.

[A]

But for me, if I'm 20 hours into a race, I mean, my stomach's killing me trying to get calories and food in and still running. So that is a completely different beast. The ultra. If you look at an ultra marathon trail race, the checkpoints, there's chips, there's Coca Cola, there's apples, bananas, Cheetos, quesadillas, burger, like anything. You just want to give runners options that deep with a marathon. For me, the nutrition is extremely dialed in and specific.

[B]

Leading up to, you mean, or even.

[A]

During leading up to enduring. So like, the way I'll approach a marathon typically is say for example, the race starts at 7am at 4, 4:30am I'll have some powdered carbohydrates and electrolytes. We have a product called GM Sport. I'll take that additional electrolyte powder. I'll try to get like 2,000 milligrams of sodium in that early in before the race. I'll also do like a bagel with honey, peanut butter and banana. So I'm trying to get maybe 150 grams of carbs in, 2,000 milligrams of sodium. Three hours before the race starts. And then an hour before the race starts, I'll get maybe a bar with 30 to 50 grams of carbohydrates in. I'll be sipping on electrolytes. And then when I line up for a marathon, my mindset is it's so dialed, like I'm standing at the starting line and I treat it like it's. That's like my whole life depends on that. Where you'll see people, the left and right of you, they're laughing, they're joking. I'm like, shut up. Like shut. Don't talk to me right now. I'm like, I'm looking straight ahead. I'm just thinking about every mile for the next 26.2, which is one of my favorite feelings in the entire world. Like when you've prepped 16 weeks, you've tapered, you've carved up, you line up for the race, knowing you're about to throw down. That is one of the most exhilarating moments of my life. And then when the race starts, I'm doing a gel which has about 24 grams of carbohydrates total every three to four miles. And then on course I'm grabbing the electrolytes and Just drinking electrolytes at every checkpoint because I don't want to cramp and I want to stay fueled.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then that's my, my approach for a marathon when it comes to like my everyday diet. I was actually thinking about this when I was traveling today. If someone were to ask me the question, what do you like more? Do you like. If you had to choose training or eating healthy and you couldn't choose both, what would you choose? I think I would choose eating healthy over training. I love, yeah, I love the way I feel when my diet is dialed in and I'm staying fueled. So I'm staying on top of protein every day. I'm having about 200 grams of protein a day. Carbs, I'm keeping very high. 500ish grams of carbs.

[B]

That's based off your physical activity though, right?

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Yeah. Sedentary person listening to this, I wouldn't start it. 500 grams of carbs.

[A]

No, no. If I wasn't, if I wasn't training, I wasn't running every day, I wouldn't need 500 grams of carbs. But my body in my mind also feels better on higher carbs and lower carbs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then fat is pretty moderate. Maybe 80 to 90 grams of fat a day. But my diet is always very dialed in. Not to say that I don't go out and enjoy myself. If you go on to dinner, I'm going to have pizza with the family and a burger and.

[B]

Well, you have years of consistency that allows you to bounce up and get the side and come back in. Yeah, most people, and sometimes I probably fall into this category too. They have, their consistency is in the other side. So they flirt with being healthy and then they go right back to what they were doing. Two very different end states.

[A]

Yeah, diet is my, like I said, my consistency is one of my strengths.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Especially when it comes to diet. Even when I'm traveling, I can keep it very well dialed in.

[B]

What are your non negotiables? Things you just won't touch in your diet. Is there anything that you're just hard stop, avoid.

[A]

Soda. It's like one thing that I won't, I won't drink.

[B]

Do you care too much about, you know, the process versus natural carbohydrate? I mean, not optimal, but is it in a pinch at that point? Are you just controlling your macro intake?

[A]

Yeah, I'm just controlling energy intake. Like most of my food comes from natural, whole unprocessed sources. But if I need calories to train, I'm gonna Get carbs in wherever I need to get the carbs in from.

[B]

That's fair. Yeah. I think sometimes people set themselves up in a prison that they. They don't have enough room. They're so restrictive. I cannot have this, that or the other. And then life. Life happens. And they could smartly modulate with something slightly outside of their box, but instead it just explodes the whole ecosystem that they have. I think everything in moderation. To include moderation sometimes is a good strategy.

[A]

I agree with that. I. I think one of the. The worst things our bodies can be abundant in is stress. And we create our own stress around food. Oftentimes there are people who, who are hyper fixated on fearing certain foods and that stress around food in itself. I mean, I, I've been there before in chapters and seasons in my life where I'm trying to restrict certain things. Especially when I'm in a fitness prep. I'm trying to get leaner for a race, for example. My relationship with food is much different then than it is on a normal.

[B]

Consistent basis to get leaner for race. Are you doing that just so you are lighter and you're just carrying lighter?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What do you avoid when you're trying to get leader?

[A]

I might not like if we, if, if we're going to dinner. I might make just different food choices when we go to dinner. In terms of. Instead of ordering a burger and fries, I'll order like a chicken breast and get rice on the side.

[B]

So a sad dinner instead of a happy.

[A]

Yeah. Or instead of like making ribeyes at night, I might make some strips with the family. That is the best cut of steak, the ribeye.

[B]

It's so good.

[A]

I spent the last year of my life learning how to perfect my steak, and I think I've got it pretty dialed in.

[B]

The ribeye just stares at you with the marbling and says, you know, you want to eat every bite of this. Don't worry about the fat content. It might be equal to the protein, maybe more. It's hard to say.

[A]

Do you cook a lot of steaks?

[B]

I do.

[A]

We cook a lot of steaks.

[B]

What's your. You said you got it dialed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do we go with here? First off? Seasoning.

[A]

So I use a seasoning by Hardcore Carnivore.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Have you heard of the brand?

[B]

No.

[A]

So it's a hardcore carnivore. And it's called Hardcore Carnivore Black.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it is black seasoning. It's got activated charcoal in it, but it creates a really good char okay. The line was created by this woman who lives in Austin. She's from Australia. Her name is Jess Priles. It's my favorite seasonings. Hardcore carnivore.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I put. I cover this thing in hardcore carnivore black, so your whole steak looks black. And then I'll either put it just on a charcoal Weber grill or a green egg.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I will add some smoking chips in there, and I'll get, I think, like 400. And then I will let it get to about 115, 120 internal temp. And then I'll let that flame just get huge, and I'll just char the crap out of both sides, sear it real quick. Sear it, and then let it sit. Sometimes I put some compound butter over top of it, slice it up. But the charcoal adds such a good smoke flavor. I love charcoal.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Okay, how do you do yours?

[B]

Salt and pepper. Let it raise to room temperature. Just because I heard Gordon Ramsay talk about that one time. I have no idea what it actually does, but I've heard he's a pretty good chef. Salt and pepper. Pretty straightforward. Some version. I have a Traeger, or they're both. They're basically the same thing. It's a. What would a Traeger be considered? Is that a. It's not a grill.

[A]

It's a pellet smoker.

[B]

There you go. So pellet smoker. I'll usually get it to 475 and throw it on there, and I two to three minutes per side, and I'll just press on it with the backside of a fork just to see how far it'll indent. Pull it off of there. Sear, usually on a countertop with some butter. Both sides the same thing. Let it rest for about as long as I cooked it. Between those two things, it's pretty good to go.

[A]

Where do you eat your steaks from? Anywhere specific.

[B]

Most of the time, it's elk. If I have any leftover, it's one of the best things about hunting. Difference is, though, you'll have to totally change your game when it comes to cooking wild game. When you get into hunting, way less fatty content, you will up that elk steak. So in medium rare at most for elk would be my suggestion. Like a deep, deep red. Anything beyond that, it still tastes pretty good. You're like, but this is a little bit like chewing on your shoe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have to totally change it up for that. Other than that, man, one of the best steaks. So we just flew out to the Galt Ranch, which is a ranch in Montana, just to check out their facility. And they sent us back with wagu beef. So I've been eating some of those.

[A]

Wagyu is like next level, dude.

[B]

It's. I mean, I can't even fathom the fat content in this thing, but it is like melted butter in your mouth.

[A]

Have you ever bought steaks from Snake River Farms?

[B]

Yes. Which is an id. I'm an idiot and didn't realize that was named after an actual Snake river in Idaho. That's how dumb I am.

[A]

They have great steak.

[B]

They do.

[A]

They're expensive.

[B]

They sell them here locally in the grocery stores.

[A]

Oh, they do?

[B]

Yeah, A couple. Not all of them, but in a couple, they're tasty. You get what you pay for. For that one. I'm willing to spend good money on a steak.

[A]

I'm the same way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm the same way.

[B]

Especially if it's going to be the centerpiece of the meal. Like we're going to go to town.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Snake River Farm Tri tip. Have you ever gotten that one?

[A]

No.

[B]

They sell those. Those are definitely on the. The pellet grill. Maybe even start by searing the outside, then lowering the temperature and let it smoke out a little bit whole.

[A]

Not.

[B]

My God. And just slicing that thing open. It's pretty good.

[A]

I think the best thing that Snake River Farms sells on their. Their site is the double bone in pork chop. If you've never had that, they're probably two inches thick.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they are. Me and my wife crush their double bone in pork chops. I think the pork chop is one of the most underrated pieces of meat if you cook it right.

[B]

I agree. We had pork chest for dinner last night. Same thing on the grill. That one. I like the. It's probably not healthy for you at all, but it's the Traeger seasoning. It comes in the green can. It's the apple and honey one. Like a light dusting. I'm almost positive it's pure sugar. So it's a light dusting. Go as crazy as you want. Holy cow. It's good.

[A]

I put like a brown sugar. Paprika.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Rub on our pork chops. Yeah. Like sweetness sweetened pork. Just like it goes. Goes well together.

[B]

It goes well together for sure. Indeed. What time is your flight again?

[A]

Six, I believe.

[B]

Okay. We got time. Switching back to business. Even though I could talk about food all day long, but I'll just end up getting hungry. What's the biggest lesson you think you've learned in your entrepreneurial Career.

[A]

Biggest lesson.

[B]

Or how about biggest mistake? Have you. Do you have a favorite mistake that you like to keep making?

[A]

I'd say one of the biggest realizations is the power of clearly defined and communicated vision. And as like the founder and CEO of the business, in the beginning, when we had a small team, it was really easy for me to clearly communicate the vision of where we were heading and what we were focused on. Because there's a few people sitting at a table and I'd say, here's the focus, the mission for the week, let's go do it. As the team got larger and more departments started to build and I wasn't able to touch or guide and direct every part of the business, I realized the negative consequences that occur when there's not a very clearly defined vision. And it actually all came to me when I was reading this book. It's called BE 2.0 Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0 by Jim Collins. And he describes that a business vision is made up of three components. And this completely changed my business completely. So the three components are core values, purpose and goals. Core values and purposes don't change more than once in every 100 years. And core values aren't necessarily integrity, service, honesty. It's like something that's very unique and specific to your business. Like one of our core values is that we will not sacrifice growth for profitability. And then when you have a clear defined core values and purposes, you, you write that down, you share that with the team, and then your goals are 10 to 25 year targets. So we have like 5, 10 year target goals right now that we're working towards. That is our vision. And our whole team has that written down in front of them all the time. So that when they go build out strategy and tactics for their department, they know what to say yes to and what to say no to because it's very easy to look at the core values. Okay, does this, does this match the core values? Does this match our purpose? Does this match our goals? If it is aligned with all three of those things, it's a yes. If it's a no to any of those things, it's an absolute no. So having a very clear defined vision, writing that down, communicating that and sharing that with the team has been a game changer for us.

[B]

Did you notice it instantaneously after implementing that?

[A]

Instantaneously, yeah, instantaneously.

[B]

How do you find that book?

[A]

I've been a fan of Jim Collins for a long time. He wrote good to great.

[B]

Yeah. And was stumbling on that one relatively random Though, did somebody suggest it to you now?

[A]

Completely random.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Another book. I'm a. I've believed that certain books have come into my life at the right periods of time and have helped me make some of the most important decisions in my life. The book the Courage to Be Disliked is one of those incredible book. But when I understood, I always knew vision was important, but I didn't clearly define it and share it. Up until about a year ago, that allowed us to hyper focus on exactly what we were going after. Because before it was all up in my head, my vision, I thought I was communicating it to everyone. And I'd get frustrated and mad that why is this department creating this strategy or going after this goal when it has nothing to do with what I want to do? But no one knew what I wanted to do because all of my head. So until I clearly defined that and wrote it down. Game changer overnight.

[B]

Yeah. It is crazy how you can come across somebody's work like that and it can kind of crack the mirror that you've been looking into, and then you can rebuild it. Little matrixy, you know, the mirror rebuilds itself and can shift the optic and the way that you look at stuff. That's pretty cool.

[A]

Yeah. I also had to learn the hard way that just having the right people on the team. I already brought this up, but the right people in the right seats is going to facilitate your success. I spent time with the founder of Gymshark a few years ago, Ben Francis, and one of the things he told me, because he came to just tour our hq, it was probably three years ago, and I remember him saying, oh, this reminds me of Gymshark in the early days and gymshark's massive now. But he said there's three things that lead to success of a business. It's the product, the brand, and then the people. And if you get any one of those three things wrong, it's gonna limit your ability to succeed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there have been times where I've had just one wrong person on the team in the wrong seat.

[B]

That's all it takes.

[A]

And it's all it takes to completely disrupt the culture, the camaraderie, the team effort. It is. It is a cancer. And if you don't remove that cancer, it will erode everything you're trying to build.

[B]

So tough decisions to make. People are people. They have lives, they have people that they're caring for. That's a tough one.

[A]

It's really tough.

[B]

Yeah. Letting people go. People who have never had the experience of firing Somebody. I'm not going to say you're missing out on something in life, but when you do have that experience, you're probably going to be shocked at how difficult it is. If you're a legit human being and you have empathy and care about people, it is way harder than you think to let somebody go.

[A]

That's why I love running so much. Because.

[B]

Because the person getting let go is back there and you're just like, I'm out of here.

[A]

Yes. But if there's something in the business that's bothering me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm trying to avoid will take over my entire run. And it will keep coming back run after run, and I'll finish a run thinking my brain is just. That's all I can think about. It's here for a reason. I got to either solve it or address it. And until I solve it or address it, it will keep occupying my mind.

[B]

Isn't it amazing though, once you do address it or solve it, how your mind is just poof.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Free and clear to think about other things? Yes, I have solved, I don't want to say problems. I have found the answer to the most complicated questions in my life when I'm doing physical things. And it'll just. And not that, I don't know, maybe behind the curtain my mind is thinking about it, but I'll have the most creative, out of the box solutions to things that may have been bothering me when I'm being physically active and they seem insurmountable when I'm not. If you're just sitting there, low heart rate, pissed at yourself, can't figure out what the solution is. It's amazing how it'll sort itself if you just create the right environment for it.

[A]

Do you have something intentionally built into your day or your life to create that moment of solitude and clarity?

[B]

I try to choke Michael unconscious as often as possible. There's actually a large level of truth to that. I let go when he taps, though.

[A]

Does that actually happen?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I've never choked you out.

[A]

I tap every time.

[B]

I know I don't want to get choked out. Should I surprise you one of these times and just hold on?

[A]

I would never roll with you again.

[B]

Jiu Jitsu has been an interesting one. I think what I love about it is that it can't be solved. So it's. It's just a puzzle that is constantly reordering, reorienting itself. And if you're not really in that moment trying to solve what's being presented to you, you're just going to get smashed. And they might get you with technique or cardio or strength or all of those things. But because if your mind is off elsewhere trying to solve problems, it's. I find it impossible to be able to do both. But the number of problems I have solved without thinking about them because I'm focusing on the competitive match or role that I'm having, is pretty unbelievable actually, because you go about five minutes on, one minute off, five minutes on, one minute off. A number of times I've sat in that 60 seconds and said, oh, I'm gonna try this, right? And I don't know where it came from, but I think it has something to do with letting your brain operate in an unconstrained environment while all of your attention is faced somewhere else. I don't know how it works, but there's something in there. The gray matter is doing something.

[A]

Do you have, do you have a moment in your day that is the same every day that I wake up every day. But do you do something after you wake up that kind of sparks?

[B]

No.

[A]

Deep thought.

[B]

I wouldn't describe spark in my morning in the same sentence. It's more of like a old man slowly getting out of bed. I do have a pretty, I mean, it's not structured morning routine, but the first thing I do is I drink water. I mean, I kind of go through, I put in creatine, I take some fiber, I do some electrolytes. And then what the hell is that other one? I'm taking collagen peptides. It takes me about 10 minutes to get everything together and some vitamin D and, and spend at least like, I don't know, 10 minutes kind of quietly just kind of consuming that and putting that stuff all together. And I'm not really solving any problems then, I don't think. But it's consistently the way I start my day. My day. My days vary. Someday I'm doing stuff like this, podcasting. Other days I'll go out and I'll fly a helicopter. Most days I'm doing jiu jitsu. It's kind of all over the place.

[A]

When you're flying, is your, is your mind thinking?

[B]

Generally I'm just like, don't die, don't die, don't die.

[A]

What do you do if, if, if there's a malfunction in the helicopter?

[B]

Just hope for the best.

[A]

You, you just ride it down?

[B]

It depends on the type of malfunction. So the helicopter I'm flying, I did a five day type rating course. I got certified in the helicopter. And it's all about contingencies and what ifs of which there are a lot. You could have a hydraulic issue, you could have electronic issue, you could have an issue with the tail rotor, you have an issue with the main rotor. You could all sorts of things. You could have a fire. And each one of those kind of has a little bit of branch diagram that you go down. They don't just fall out of. Well, I'm just going to say they don't just fall out of the sky. We could pull up a recent video from New York that would prove me to be a liar. But that's because the main rotor blade departed from the aircraft and it kind of fell out of the ground. Assuming that doesn't happen, you can probably get it on the ground pretty safely. You'll hopefully you'll walk away from it. You might hurt yourself, but you can probably get it to the ground.

[A]

Do you use yours for transportation or is it more leisure?

[B]

Completely and utterly fucking off just to escape, Just to explore. Montana. It is an amazing tool for where we live up here. The ability to say, I wonder what's on top of that mountain. Let's go check it out.

[A]

Do you ever see wildlife?

[B]

Yes. I'm not very good at it though. It's just like hunting for me. The first few days of hunting season. I'm not that great at picking out animals because you have to get used to the silhouette and the color and the shape. And oftentimes a week into it you're like, boom. There's animals all over the place the first few days. Like there's no animals out here. There's never been an animal here. We're never going to find anything. And they're literally standing right out there in front of you. I haven't figured out exactly yet the, the silhouette and the size of what I should be looking for. I've seen elk a few times. I saw a bighorn sheep one time. Most of those were random happenstance, never a bear though. I have seen a bear one time when I was learning to get my license, only because there was this massive black object in the middle of a green field which I thought was a log until we got closer and then the log moved. That was it, man. Yeah, so I, I just, I don't have enough reps yet picking them out. But it is definitely something. Also in Montana, you have to have a 24 hour period between if you fly a helicopter or use a drone, you have to have a 24 hour stand down time because they don't want you to. Hey, I have a helicopter. Let's go chase an elk herd. Land helicopter and chase him down. So you can use those things. I'm actually not really sure on drones specifically. Talking about helicopters, if you fly in somewhere, you need to take 24 hours off, but you could go largely locate a geographic area where they might be. And I'll definitely be doing that come hunting season.

[A]

Is the helicopter a more recent thing?

[B]

Yes. I've only been flying for about a year. I did a bunch of fixed wing flying when I was working for CrossFit. I was actually one of the jobs I had is I was the pilot for the company. So I have a couple of thousand hours of fixed wing time, but only a couple hundred hours of helicopter time.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

It's been fun. It was more. It's been more fun than I thought it would be.

[A]

I could see how, like, if you're gonna do it, Montana is the place to do it.

[B]

I mean, what do you want to do? You want to fly around crazy mountains? Do you want to go around Water by Flathead? Do you want to cruise around these crazy valleys with river. It's. It's awesome.

[A]

Yeah. Even as I was flying in. Yeah. Typically, I don't even lift the. The shade of the. The planks.

[B]

It's worth lifting.

[A]

You're not looking. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You look out and mountains and rivers and lakes. I mean, it's beautiful.

[B]

It is. I don't know why I would ever leave here, to be honest. It would. There would have to be an incredibly compelling reason, and I can't think of one. Even if it was a substantial amount of money, I think I would say no.

[A]

Yeah, I could see that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, Texas, we don't have nearly the diverse landscape.

[B]

All I need to avoid Texas is Google and the temperature during the middle of the day in the summertime.

[A]

Have you ever been to South Texas? Like Big Bend National Park? Big Bend is beautiful.

[B]

Much of Texas is beautiful. Yeah, I love Texas, but not in the months between like May and October.

[A]

They're just cooking. But run during those months, you'll get lean or die. Survival of the fittest, I suppose.

[B]

I suppose. Tell me about your book.

[A]

So it comes out June 24th.

[B]

Which day is today? Anyway? Okay, cool.

[A]

And so two weeks, essentially about two weeks from. From today.

[B]

Actually, it is exactly two weeks from today. 14 days.

[A]

I spent the last two years, you know, working on this project, and it's all about how like, go one more is mine and my brand's mission. It's tattooed on me. It's now tattooed on, on thousands of other people across the world. And I founded Go One More because I was on one of my first training runs for one of my first marathons when I was living in Austin. This was back to when I was 230 pounds and I had an 18 mile training run scheduled for that day. And I'm 10 miles into this run down in town, Lake Loop, which is the loop that goes around the river, downtown Austin. I'm 10 miles in this 18 mile run and I decided to quit. Legs hurt, I was tired. I started walking back to our house that we were renting at the time. And I'm thinking as I'm walking back, if I could quit on this run, even though no one will know, what does this say about my character? What quit on my family, what quit on my business. But my business was just getting off the ground at that point. So I decided to turn back around. I go back to the trail. I finished the run around 18 miles. I run one additional mile, I run 19, didn't think much of it, came back home, wrote one more on the bill of my hat. Again, not thinking much of it. Took a photo of it and posted on Instagram. And the response was wild. All these people started writing one More under the bill of their hat, taking a photo of it, sending it to me, posting it. So I thought I must have struck a nerve in a lot of people here. So that eventually turned into Go One More and it became our tagline, our mission, our purpose. And in the beginning, Go One More was just an action. I viewed it as just doing more of anything. If you spend one more hour in the gym, you run one more mile, one more hour in your business, it's going to facilitate the results that you want. But then, as my life grew and developed and evolved, where I got married, had kids, responsibilities increased, business grew, I learned that just by doing more of anything doesn't necessarily provide the results you need or want, but it's doing more of the right things at the right time for the right reasons, and having the clarity to make those decisions. So over the years, Go One More has evolved from just being an action to actually being an outcome. And this book is the story of that realization of it comes down to having the clarity to make intentional, life changing choices. I've just realized over time that every day we're faced with many decisions, some of those very meaningful, some of those insignificant, but there are certain decisions that we have to make over the course of our lifetime that can shift the trajectory of our entire life. Like writing One More Bill in My Hat changed my life. Deciding to run my first marathon changed my life. But I made those decisions with a lot of clarity and intentionality. So I've applied all this intentionality to all these decisions I made over the last couple years, and I believe that's what's led me to where I'm at right now. So it's much more than the action of doing. It's the outcome that we're trying to achieve. That's what this book's all about.

[B]

Did you enjoy writing it?

[A]

No.

[B]

Was it a hard process for you?

[A]

Yeah, I rewrote it three times.

[B]

Like soup the nuts. Three times. You pulled like a. Like a framework out or a skeleton and built on it.

[A]

Three times I laid out the skeleton, and then I pretty much rewrote the whole thing. And then the third time, it was like a revision to that second revision. It was a painful process and for majority, the whole process. I hated it until the end, where I ended up loving the result.

[B]

Do you work with a publisher or self publish?

[A]

I worked with a publisher, Ben Bella Books.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I mean, it was an interesting experience because you have to do a lot of reflection into what you're writing, and that also provides a lot of clarity into what you're trying to really clearly define and figure out and share. But my life got shooken up when we had our first child, Charlie, who's gonna be three this summer. Because up until that point, and I didn't realize it then, but I could be, and I was very selfish with my goals and my time. And then when our daughter was born, I had to learn the hard way that, like, my, my. My routines don't just work for me anymore. It's my responsibilities first. And you know, they tell you when you have kids, it changes your life. I mean, changes your life.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Every part of your life changes.

[B]

If your wife doesn't want to have one more kid, you should show her that tagline like, you should live this. Just go one more.

[A]

She. She lets me hear it. She's. She's told me that, yeah, yeah, kids.

[B]

Will change your life in ways that you would never expect. It's easy to be selfish when it's either a just you or you with a partner. You just. You have less to worry about. You have less to think about.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah. And then something arrives that you have no vocabulary, ability to describe how much you love it and what you would do for it. And. Yeah. Changes your view on the world. Hopefully.

[A]

I struggle a lot initially, too, because up until that point, my entire life after the military, I mean, my whole identity, everything was around work and building the business.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then when my daughter was born, I wanted to be equally involved and present and apply that same intentionality being a parent. And I didn't think I could do both at that time. So I was really stuck in the middle of, like, which one do I choose? And I've learned over time that you can do both. It might look a little different than you were previously doing, but it's. You have the ability to.

[B]

Kids are. They have seasons, though, as well. I mean, super young, completely and utterly dependent upon their parents for survival. You're going to get to a place where. And this sucks. As a parent, their friends in social circles have as much influence on their life as you do. And hanging out with dad might seem kind of cool, but hanging out with their friends is really cool. And it'll just change.

[A]

Yeah, we're not there yet. I don't even know what that feels like.

[B]

It sucks. Let me tell you. Spoiler alert. When you realize actually it doesn't suck because I just try to view it through the lens of this is the natural progression. This is the way it's supposed to be. I don't want to raise kids that are so insulated and don't have friends and don't see the outside world. I want them to have rich and meaningful experiences, and the only way they're going to do that is by having rich and meaningful experiences. I'm going to pay attention to the best of my ability to who their social circle is and, you know, try to put some barriers up so they don't kill themselves accidentally. But you have to let them spread their wings. Like, I don't want to be the parent out there with a pair of scissors clipping the wings. I want to, like, hey, if you're going to go fly, jump off the small cliff first.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Run down the hill first to see if you can glide.

[A]

Yeah. I was even thinking about, you know, because my daughter now is becoming more social and she's gonna start going to school this fall. And the other night I was just thinking about her getting picked on or. Or being in a situation where she's upset or feels bullied.

[B]

Yeah, it's going to happen.

[A]

I know it's gonna happen. But I was like, ah, it's like that hurts me as much as. Yeah, I know it's hurting them. Just that thought it's.

[B]

Well, the reality is Worse than the thought. I'll load you up with that one. And I may or may not have knocked on people's doors. Just leave it at that.

[A]

Yeah, do what you got to do.

[B]

I mean, that's my daughter. It's my little girl. Well, for me, I just can't stand bullies either. I despise people who will force their will into those that are unable to protect themselves. It just drives me nuts. Layer that on top of it being one of your kids. Yeah. Just remind yourself you're a better parent out of prison than in prison.

[A]

Yeah, I'd rather be out 100%, but yeah.

[B]

Doesn't mean you can't think about it. Fantasize about it on your run, perhaps.

[A]

Oh my.

[B]

Maybe change your run path so it's by their house every morning and they can see that you're there seeing them. I don't know, Hard to say.

[A]

Here's this guy, shirtless with psychopath 2 inch running shorts.

[B]

Totally. Oh, I mean, I'd go inch and a half maximum. Just putting the miles in. Meanwhile, you know, their father's maybe, you know, living life in a recliner a little bit more wax shaped than it's like, yeah, I'm here, I'm waiting for you.

[A]

I'm here. I see you, you see me.

[B]

I see you seeing me. Fucking get your shit straight.

[A]

Yeah, I dig that.

[B]

Yeah. What have you, what have you changed your YouTube strategy from when you like, how do you see YouTube now? Because you were a way earlier adopter than me. I wasn't paying attention to it until a few years ago. Have you changed, do you view it as a different ecosystem? And have you changed the way that you interface with it?

[A]

Yeah, I love long form content. Even when everything was going short form, that wasn't attractive to me. Like, I love the podcast space. I love long form YouTube videos. Sometimes we'll put out one hour YouTube videos that are just blogs, not even documentaries. So our approach to YouTube is going back to vision. The every video should fit the core values, the purpose and the goals. And all of my social media is to build the BPN brand, support the team in the mission. But also I want to position myself as a role model for younger men. I mean, most of my audience is men. Younger men, men, guys in the same season and chapter of life as me, and showing people that, like, you can prioritize health and fitness, you can prioritize building and leading a team in a business and also being a present father and husband. And I was just listening to this podcast with Simon Sinek earlier this week. And for me, like, building a social media platform was never about being like the hero or putting myself in the face of an audience because I started the business first. I started doing social media because the business needed to grow.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Which is oftentimes the opposite way around. So I want my brand. I want go on more to have legacy and outlive me. But I also know that people want to follow a person, not necessarily just a brand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I have to be the person who guides going more in the brand and my mission in this chapter in Season of Life to get it to where I want it to be. But my goal was eventually that I'm irrelevant and forgotten about and my brand sound live me.

[B]

Do you still enjoy creating the content?

[A]

Depending on what the content is.

[B]

What's your favorite type? I'm gonna guess it's a vlog.

[A]

Yeah. I like vlog stuff that's behind the scenes of building the business, but also just fun. And like, there's humor and we're goofing around, but we're also bringing people along for the journey of. Of what we're building. And I like videos and vlogs that have more people included and incorporated than just me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then these big documentary pieces that we do. Like we'll do one on the race we just hosted two weeks ago. That'll be a huge doc.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Those docs really move the needle for the brand. Like the doc we did@leadville100 a few years ago. Huge needle mover for the brand. At our mission, we've documented all these fitness preps and we do big videos from the races. So it's. The whole channel is just this evolution of storytelling that I want to look. Be able to look back 10, 20 years from now and go relive and watch the. The growth and journey of the brand and the people and the stories because it's all been authentically documented.

[B]

What's been the most successful video you've ever put up in terms of downloads?

[A]

I'd say all of the ultra docs do really well. But I did a six month Ironman training series in 2020, in 2021. And I'd say that was the biggest needle mover for the brand.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Where we were gaining maybe 30,000 subscribers a month.

[B]

Really?

[A]

During that, that series, was that surprising.

[B]

To you that they connected with that? Was that during COVID as well?

[A]

During COVID people were just locked in.

[B]

In front of the YouTube machine.

[A]

Yeah. Our business grew 400%.

[B]

Holy cow.

[A]

From 2019 and 2020, that was a.

[B]

Heyday for content creators. Yeah, I mean people were literally tranched in, stuck with idle time on their hands, trying to figure out what to do with it.

[A]

And we didn't try to do this, it wasn't our strategy. But we started creating running content right before running got really popular. So we were creating running content. I was this bigger guy running and creating running content before COVID hit. And everyone then was like, you'll never be a runner. Like you don't look like a runner. And then what happened? Gyms shut down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All these non runners started running. Running became cool. We had a year or two years worth of content on YouTube prior to. And then that was the catalyst for that next chapter for us.

[B]

God, that's crazy. How big is your content creation team?

[A]

So in the whole business we have like 12 people on the team. But working on my content specifically, it's like two people. Sometimes we'll flex based off of the size of the project. But for the whole business we have about 12 people. That's videographers, photographers, editors, directors.

[B]

You can capture the best content you want. If you don't know how to edit that, put it into something that's digestible for people, man. It's a very expensive terabytes.

[A]

We have a solid, solid team. Like some of the, the best creators. My brand director, Jordan, utter absolute stud. And then Trey, so Trey Freeman, he leads all communications for the brand, social, tone of voice, photography. And then Jordan leads all video and creative. And those two guys together are just rock stars.

[B]

Powerhouse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do you got left on your bucket list? What do you want to accomplish in your 30s, man?

[A]

Right now it's, it's. I'm so just dialed into growing the business. So we just moved into a new headquarters. We're in a 76,000 square foot headquarters now. We have a new gym, new fulfillment center, new office space. We have a few goals that we're trying to chase down right now. So like I'd say by the end of my 30s, the goal is to be the number one, the most successful, respected and trusted endurance consumer brand in the world. So we've hyper focused on endurance these last couple years and that's where the brand is heading. That's who the brand is right now. So it's disrupting a space that hasn't been disrupted in a long time.

[B]

How about outside of professionally? Like what lights your fire? Do you have you. Are you an Everest climber?

[A]

No.

[B]

Do you want to row the Atlantic in a stand up paddle board? I mean, what are we talking here? I think like people do some weird shit.

[A]

There's a lot of like physical accomplishments I still want to chase down, but it's, it's, it's more so like pushing my PR on the marathon. I want to run a sub 2:30 marathon eventually. So I want to shave nine minutes off my marathon time, which I feel.

[B]

Like at your level, when you're talking about shaving nine minutes, people would say, yeah, dude, that's just nine minutes. Just run faster. Which I suppose there's some essence to that, but I feel like at the margins you're talking about, this is very difficult.

[A]

It's 20 seconds per mile faster. So I have to run a 5,45 minute per mile pace. So like that is hard pass. That's, that's one of my next big endurance, physical effort goals. Uh, I want to do a 200 mile ultra at some point and more. So personally just like keep being and learning how to be a better father and husband.

[B]

I think that'll come in time, man. Yeah, you need more time in reps. I mean, first off, here's what I can tell you. You're not going to be perfect at it and you're going to make mistakes and you're going to have successes and it's going to suck at times and it's going to be amazing at times. It's a wild ride.

[A]

It's just the three years I've been doing it, it's been a wild ride.

[B]

You have less control than you think. And that gets more true the older your kids are, which is terrifying, by the way.

[A]

It is terrifying. I think what I'm trying to do right now, in my 30s, in preparation for my 40s and beyond, is taking that step back and thinking, what can I control and what can I do now to set my life up for the life that I want in the future with my family? Because I'll never forget, I was listening to this podcast years ago and there was this guy being interviewed and he just sold his business for $100 million. And the person interviewing him said, well, when you sold your business for $100 million, what's the first thing you did? And he said, well, I wanted to go travel the world with my family. So he went to his family and said, hey, I just sold the business for $100 million. Let's go travel the world. Let's go enjoy the time together and spend some quality time. And his kids go, dad, we don't even know you. Why would we want to travel the world with you. We haven't known you the last couple years. Remember hearing that, being like, that's like.

[B]

A knife in the heart.

[A]

Yeah. That puts, like, a lot of things in perspective.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I've thought about that episode ever since. It's like, what can I do now to keep chasing down all my dreams and aspirations, but not being ignorant to the collateral damage that I might be creating right now to set me up for failure in the future?

[B]

I think the first step is being aware that there is collateral damage. I don't know. And I'm probably guilty of this. Earlier in my life, specifically deep into my military career, I wasn't considering it. I don't think I did any permanent damage. I have a great relationship with all three of my kids, but it starts with just understanding and knowing that the choices you make might have downstream cascading consequences on them. Some people don't ever get to that spot, and you see it. I mean, God, my kids, social circles, Some of the stories that they tell me about their friends, relationships with their parents. Like, my jaws on the floor. What. How did it get to that point?

[A]

Yeah. I think there's certain. Just like in any operation you run, there's certain collateral damage that you're willing to accept.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And certain sacrifices you have to make. But it's like, which ones are you willing to accept and which ones are you not willing to accept that guide your decisions?

[B]

Yeah. You gonna write another book since you're so pumped about the first one?

[A]

As of right now, no. Because I don't have, like, anything I want to write about. If in the future, I don't want to be an author just to be an author.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to be able to talk about some things that are actually meaningful to me. If in five years.

[B]

What was your total word count on your book, man? Oh, you should know this. Come on.

[A]

I honestly couldn't even tell you.

[B]

How thick is it.

[A]

It's like. It's like 300 pages.

[B]

It's about probably 65, 70,000 words.

[A]

I want to say maybe 75,000.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Something around there a lot. I remember editing the book where we just got to the hospital because my wife was going into labor and she had to get induced, actually. So we got induced with our son Nico. And my editor texted me, hey, your manuscript. Remember your edits are due in two days. I said, I thought they were due in two weeks. They said, no, two days. So I'm in the hospital, and my wife's just giving me the death stare, and I'm trying to make these edits to this book. Before my son was born and I got it done, I remember eating. I had a can of sardines. I'm eating sardines and I'm editing my book. My wife's like, what are you doing?

[B]

Trying to get it done.

[A]

Trying to get it done. I know less about the change once baby boys out.

[B]

Yeah. Do you travel much?

[A]

No.

[B]

Do you have places that you'd like to see?

[A]

I mean, my wife would love to go, like, to Italy and. And spend more time in Europe. I'd like to spend more time in Asia.

[B]

Yeah. What do you have? Like, bucket list travel destinations. Asia, obviously. Is there anywhere else?

[A]

Italy, Asia. But right now it's.

[B]

You don't want to, like, run a marathon in Antarctica.

[A]

Like some psychopath may maybe like the Swiss Alps. I love to run the Swiss Alps.

[B]

Switzerland is unbelievable, man.

[A]

Yeah, that's. It's a place like I've seen people run. Looks absolutely beautiful.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I don't know, man. Like, my focus is so dialed in right now to a few things that these bucket list items that I may want to go after one day, they're just, like, not on my near horizon. So I don't even, like, think about them or spend.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think there's anything wrong with.

[A]

That time since, you know. Yeah.

[B]

You know, people will tell you that this is the path you have to take, and if you don't take it, everything else is wrong. And I don't know if there's a right or wrong way. I think everybody else is completely different. As long as you get to your end state, I don't think the path necessarily matters.

[A]

Yeah. I think I'll get to a point in life where, like, some of these projects that I'm working on right now, I'll have wrapped up. Kids are maybe a little older, and it's like, okay, now let's start exploring what we want to do next. But right now I'm just so hyper focused on a few things. That's why even with travel, I don't do much of it just to be able to support my wife with.

[B]

Yeah, dude, you're in and out today. You left Texas this morning, I'm assuming.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, we'll get you back. I'll get you out of here in a few minutes. But on the nutrition side, in your business, what's been your most successful product?

[A]

It's been interesting. It's changed over the years, but there's this product called G1M Sport. It's carbohydrates and electrolytes. That has become our best selling product by far the last couple years. So we started as a attritional bodybuilding supplement company. 2012, 2018, we launched our first health and wellness product, which is a green superfood powder. So 2012 to 2018, our product offering was pre workout creatine, whey protein, greens, reds. And then in 2020, when I was training for my first ironman, we created a product called GM Sport, which is carbohydrates and electrolytes. Because all the stuff that was on the market was tearing my gut up because of very cheap carb sources like maltodextrin, for example, has a very low molecular weight, meaning it digests very slowly. And when you're consuming a lot of these carbs and electrolytes on the bike, for example, for multiple hours, you get gut rot. Just destroys your gut.

[B]

You want it to pass through quickly, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. You're not looking for a gut bomb.

[A]

No. So you get like gas, bloating, stomach discomfort.

[B]

That sounds sweet. In an endurance event.

[A]

Yeah. So I'd be like on the bike, hunched over, and my gut would be kill me. So I set out to. To find a carb source that didn't cause these issues. And I came across, after much trial and error, this carb source called cluster dextrin, it is a very high molecular weight, digests very quickly. It's been extensively studied so that that product alone is 20 grams of carbohydrates per serving in the form of cluster dextrin, 350 milligrams of sodium per serving. And we launched that 2020. It was a sleeper of a product. Early on in 2023, I think we were selling like 1500 units a month of gym sport, and now we sell 30 to 35,000 units.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Of it a month. And then we just launched a variation of that product called GNM Sport plus, which is carbs, electrolytes, caffeine and nootropics. So the GM Sport kind of family of products right now, or our hero SKUs that are just crushing it.

[B]

How is. Are you a coffee drinker?

[A]

I drink coffee. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Is caffeine in the endurance world leveraged upon pretty heavily?

[A]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But you don't. The thing is, you don't want too much of it because if you're overstimulated, it'll affect your. Your heart rate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And your effort. So I found like the sweet spot is 150mg of caffeine before endurance training, which is enough to stimulate and then reduce fatigue.

[B]

It's about what. That's about a cup of coffee, right?

[A]

A cup of coffee, yeah. But like if you used a pre workout supplement, for example, for endurance training, that's probably overstimulating.

[B]

Like the yellow jackets.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't know what they were, but I miss them.

[A]

Well, I mean when I first got in the supplement industry, that's when I remember Jack 3D.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It doesn't.

[A]

It had this ingredient called 1,3 dimethylamine.

[B]

Which is called meth.

[A]

Yes. Which was banned because it was. It was amphetamine PR every time in the gym.

[B]

It's not a big deal.

[A]

I mean that was, that was like the pre workout.

[B]

How did they get away with that? Did they just not ask?

[A]

I think it was like for a while it was an acceptable ingredient until it wasn't. And I feel like a lot of.

[B]

People either got injured or died before that became unacceptable.

[A]

A lot of people went to the hospital for that. That product and ingredients specifically.

[B]

It's a glory days.

[A]

That was the glory days. Yeah.

[B]

The wild wild west, if you will.

[A]

The industry was the wild. I describe it that way. It was the wild wild west.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was nuts product. When I got started, products were popping up on the industry, on the Internet, being sold and then taken down weeks later. The FDA was getting involved. Manufacturers were getting shut down. It was, it was nuts. So I mean that's why we, we enrolled all of our products in the NSF certified for sport program.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just to get everything tested.

[B]

Probably not a bad idea. At least ethically and morally. I think that's a very good idea for your company to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I want to get you out of here so you can make sure you get to your flight. Round it up with where people can find you and support you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your platform is massive. But remind the people.

[A]

Yeah. My. My business is bpnsups.com it's bear performance nutrition on YouTube. Just search Nick Bear. I've over a thousand videos that have documented my life from 2014 to. To today.

[B]

Are the skin tight green?

[A]

They're still there.

[B]

Good. That's what I'm talking about.

[A]

Just sort legacy pieces. Yeah. Sort. Oldest and newest and you will literally watch like 20,000 calorie eating days. Neon green, tight set, lifting all the angles.

[B]

Never take stuff down. Leave it up for legacy.

[A]

It's all you have to. Yeah. And then the book titled Go on more.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Can be found on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target wherever you purchase your books at.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

Thanks for making the trip.

[A]

Absolutely. And I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. Let's get you back to your wife, man.

[A]

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