Episode 404 - Matt Graham - Air Marshals, the CIA, and the Worlds best mission timers

Summary

Cleared Hot – Episode 404

Guest: Matt Graham
Title: Air Marshals, the CIA, and the World's Best Mission Timers
Date: August 25, 2025
Host: Andy Stumpf

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Overview

In this episode, Andy Stumpf welcomes Matt Graham—a military veteran, former air marshal, CIA contractor, and founder of Ares Watches—for a riveting, in-depth discussion. Together, they explore Matt's unconventional career path from law enforcement to federal service and covert agencies, the evolution of “foundership” and belief in leadership, the realities of government operations, and Matt’s journey creating the world’s premier operational watches. Throughout, the duo unpacks leadership lessons, tales from federal work, and the heart of American small-business manufacturing.

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Key Discussion Points

The Unusual Paths to Success and Entrepreneurship

(00:45–11:30)

• Starting Out: Matt Graham describes his upbringing surrounded by civil servants—firefighters, cops, teachers—and his early aspirations to become a firefighter, then police officer.
• Air Marshal Genesis: After 9/11, opportunity and curiosity led Matt into the Air Marshal Service, inspired by the tactical challenges of boarding and securing aircraft.
• Federal Service Realities: The application processes for both Air Marshals and the CIA involved chance, networking, and the willingness to move and adapt.

“Normally… how I went from small town law enforcement to the CIA, the answer is a series of poor life decisions. But as is the case often.”
—Matt Graham (32:59)

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The Nature of Foundership and Leadership

(10:34–23:00)

• Defining Foundership: Matt introduces “foundership” as a first-principles discipline—the ability of the founder to carry belief through growth, time, and context, separate from traditional leadership models.
• Military vs. Civilian Models: Andy and Matt discuss how military leadership’s buy-in and sacrifice rarely maps to civilian workplaces. Civilian employees need belief, not just orders.
• Struggling with School: Matt explains going back to school (MBA program) to learn the “foreign language” of business and provide tools for his family business.

“How come I’m getting these poor grades when it comes around leadership in business?...These aren't leadership issues. They're foundership issues.”
—Matt Graham (16:24)

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Learning, Language, and Becoming “Fluent” in New Arenas

(06:13–11:10, 35:00–41:00)

• The Importance of Business Fluency: Matt likens learning finance to learning a foreign language: essential in the new world of business and entrepreneurship.
• Transferring Knowledge: Discusses whether a founder, by learning and teaching, unintentionally robs the next generation of their own hard-won experience.

“If I’m going to build this and steward this, then I should have those things to be able to translate that and push that forward.”
—Matt Graham (08:09)

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The Realities and Ironies of Air Marshal & Agency Operations

(34:55–56:00)

• Living the Job: Matt chronicles daily air marshal life: endless flying, intensive shooting quals, and a pay-for-performance system (“shoot for pay”) with unlimited ammo.
• Operational Tactics: Stories from the field—hijack training, weapons qualifications, and high standards.
• Transition to the Agency: Through an unlikely series of connections, Matt moves from Air Marshals to a CIA training role, recounting hiring processes and personal struggles during family emergencies.

“As a guy that came from a shooting background...they reward me based on my ability to run a gun? Like, who’s doing that?”
—Matt Graham (43:44)

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The Culture of Elite Organizations—From Inside and Out

(13:54–16:50, 61:45–68:30)

• Selection and Peer Groups: High standards, the necessity to “earn the seat at the table,” and the value of learning from seasoned operators.
• Operational Simplicity: Even the top agencies rely on practical, sometimes low-tech, solutions—like “mission timers” marked on hands with Sharpies, not high-tech gadgetry.

“People will be disappointed to hear that at the agency, highly capable individuals [were] writing on their hand with a Sharpie... They would want it to be some high-speed computer screen.”
—Matt Graham (28:08)

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Leaving the Agency and “Foundership” in Practice

(68:30–79:08)

• Endings and New Beginnings: Matt shares the story of his final days at the agency, the leadership summit on training/values, and how that solidified his focus on organizational “belief.”
• Personal Closure: Matt’s symbolic “pencil rubbing” of a fallen colleague’s star at CIA HQ marks his transition from national service to entrepreneurship.

“I took that dry erase marker and… I wrote down ‘What do we believe?’ ...If this is your mission and you believe it, then why do we have this problem?”
—Matt Graham (74:41)

• Why He Left: The inevitable bureaucracy—even in “high-speed” organizations—led to Matt, and others, confronting their own and the organization’s evolving values.

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Building Ares Watches: An American Manufacturing Story

(80:19–129:32)

• From Passion to Plan: After leaving the agency, a family conversation about “What would you do if you could do anything?” leads Matt to make watches—his lifelong fascination.
• Purpose over Profit: Ares starts not as a business to maximize profit, but as a mission to make the best operational mission timer possible, inspired by the legacy of iconic field gear.
• Engineering Process: Matt details the challenges of truly building in America vs. just branding—hand-drawing cases and numerals, sourcing components, devising modular chassis to allow multiple movements.
• Field Testing and Community: Ares watches are heavily used in elite, operational environments, but rarely visible in public or social media due to client discretion.

“…Every part of that watch, we’re working to onboard more and more and more. Our dials, our lume, are Swiss because the Swiss make the best lume. But every chamfer, every angle, every part of that case sits the way it sits because I drew it that way.”
—Matt Graham (100:16)

• Business Approach: Pre-paying employees, leading with trust, and refusing to cut corners; Matt adopts practices learned from the CIA to solve problems “off the table.”
• Bespoke Manufacturing: Ares can make “batches of one,” customizing watches unlike mass brands, and seeing their field and diver watches recognized as new Mil-Spec standards.
• Next Steps: The “Liberty Project” aims to further bring manufacturing in-house, selling 2,500 watches to fund new infrastructure, with each buyer’s name embedded in Ares’s foundations.

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Notable & Humorous Moments

• Sharpie Reticle Anecdote:
  Matt describes watching an agency instructor draw a shooting reticle on his hand with a Sharpie—demonstrating that wisdom and confidence often come in humble forms. (22:01–27:39)

• Presidential Shoe Incident:
  Andy and Matt recount President Bush dodging a shoe, then joking he wished he’d caught it, and Bush’s intervention to save the shoe thrower from execution by locals—insight into American values and leadership composure. (46:44–49:24)

• Red Watch Banter:
  A rolling joke about building a fully red watch for Andy, culminating in mockery, design tweaks, and the implications of “standing out” in operations. (85:57–89:42)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Defining Foundership & Leadership: 10:34–23:00
• Career Path: Law Enforcement → Air Marshal → CIA: 29:30–68:30
• Inside Agency Selection, Culture & Training: 66:39–68:30
• Air Marshal Training/“Shoot for Pay” System: 42:08–44:19
• The Presidential Shoe Story & Agency Protection Lessons: 46:44–49:24
• Leaving the Agency—Leadership Whiteboard & Star Rubbing: 74:41–79:08
• Making Ares Watches—Philosophy, Process, and Challenges: 80:19–102:59
• Bespoke Manufacturing, Legacy, and Future Plans: 109:32–129:32

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Selected Quotes

• “Foundership is a first principles discipline to steward belief across growth, time, context, all of that.”
  —Matt Graham (10:40)

• “What have I done today that gets me invited back tomorrow? ... This organization can have anybody they want—the best in the world.”
  —Matt Graham (71:08)

• “People who are wildly experienced… never took the attitude of ‘oh, you want to rely on your memory?’ Because the most experienced people know you can free up bandwidth.”
  —Andy Stumpf (27:06)

• “If you have made something…that performs…why would you change that? I’m not going to do that. We’ve made something that works and it performs.”
  —Matt Graham (125:19)

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Where to Find Ares Watches

• areswatches.com
  • The home for Ares’s American-built field and diver watches, including info on the Liberty Project and bespoke ordering.

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Takeaways

Matt Graham’s journey is one of relentless curiosity, learning, and a refusal to accept “this is just how things are done.” From patrol car to airplane to blacked-out SUV, he’s sought uncomfortable challenges, built skills layer by layer, and ultimately poured his energy into building tools for those on the front lines. His story illustrates that belief—in mission, in product, in people—remains the foundation of lasting, meaningful work.

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For Further Listening

• Past episodes with founders, military/agency leaders, or operational gear designers.
• Future episodes on entrepreneurship, craftsmanship, and high-performance teams.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Andy Stumpf]

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[Michael Glover]

Sun runs north or south.

[Andy Stumpf]

West of the smoke. West of the smoke.

[Michael Glover]

Okay, copy.

[Andy Stumpf]

West of the smoke.

[Michael Glover]

I'm looking at danger close now.

[Andy Stumpf]

Come on with it, baby. Give it to me. I mean it.

[Michael Glover]

You're cleared hot.

[Andy Stumpf]

Can't be cleared hot.

[Michael Glover]

I remember first time I met him, went to his house and it was just the little. I can think. It was just a garage. It was a multi room garage, but it was there. He was talking about building the other one on his property. I went down and visited when he was. And I don't know anything about building anything, but I'm sitting there looking around. I also don't know anything about making knives. And I said, josh, I think you might outgrow this. He's like, no, we have years. I don't even know if they had moved in the last piece of manufacturing equipment before he calls me. He's like, hey, it's a little tight. It's wild.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Some of that stuff, when it goes right, like it starts to that snowball effect piece.

[Michael Glover]

Why don't you think it happened? So. And I absolutely love Josh and I think it's fantastic what's happening and that they're exploding that way. Why do you think it happens for some people and not others? Because for every Josh, let's be generous, it's probably more than this, but let's say there's 50 other people who have that idea. But it never goes.

[Andy Stumpf]

I was gonna say 100, but I.

[Michael Glover]

Was gonna say just to be like super down the middle of the road. 50 for sure. Why is that?

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't know. Part of it. So I'm in this now.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, well, that's why I asked.

[Andy Stumpf]

And part of what I'm in now. So I'm going to school. Yeah, why not? Right. 52, let's. And then if you need.

[Michael Glover]

This is a house of learned doctors.

[Andy Stumpf]

Remember Rodney Dangerfield? In Back to School.

[Michael Glover]

Yes. Triple Lindy.

[Andy Stumpf]

And so I look at that. I haven't seen that movie in 30 years.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And then I'm like, oh, I bet he was, like, in his 50s. And now it just makes me sad. My heart. I just like, oh, my God, am I that? And, yeah, so I do think it's.

[Michael Glover]

The key to staying young. Is college. Probably not College. Learning times 52 can go into 1917 point. I'd have to run that by my quant Glover. But as soon as he's not in jail, he probably has access to a calculator. But that's a different podcast. Sorry. He came on and talked about that. That was fun. My favorite memory of that is that I assume when Evan came to sign the bail check that he wasn't tall enough to see over. So you just see this hand come up with a check and it slides under the glass, which, of course, I said to both of them directly. And they both enjoy that visual because Evan is Micro sf. That's what I call him.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay, so about school, but no, I'm serious.

[Michael Glover]

Learning new stuff, I think is not the key to physically staying young, but I think it is the key to mental youth.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think it's both. I think you could do both well.

[Michael Glover]

Depending on what you're trying to learn. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. I think it helps physically and mentally. I just did it out of a need for growing a business. There's a lot of people sitting around these tables I go to that are saying things I don't understand.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Whether it's finance, whether it's right, you get into this world where when you try to do what Josh has done, there's these layers and thresholds or what you've built here. What Evan did.

[Michael Glover]

Today's episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. Damn, I love this brand. I love being a part of this brand. For those of you that don't know, I own a Black Rifle Coffee outpost up here in Kalispell, Montana, But I've had a connection to this brand for years. Let's head over to their website and let's see what they have. As we're looking at this, let's remember if you are a hunter in a western state or. Actually, I'm not even familiar with what the hunting dates are on the eastern states, but let's assume they're relatively the same. You're going to need your coffee. So let's start thinking about how we're going to have coffee in the backcountry. There's instant packets there's people who take fully robust setups that require, you know, stoves, what. Whatever it might be. But what are you going to drink in the backcountry? How are you going to make it? What are you going to drink out of? That's what you should focus on. At the top of the page. Blackrifflecoffee.com you're going to get the chance to join the coffee club subscription. This is just an easy way to put it on fire and forget you get what you want delivered when you want. Scrolling down, you can see all the roasts that you can add to that. The exclusive coffee subscription. This is very Evan forward and heavy, meaning he has a deep hand in this. The example you can see is the Secret Water Society. One of the cooler, if not the coolest bag designs I've ever seen on a cup of coffee or a bag of coffee, I should say. It could become a cup of coffee, but a few steps in between and then they got a bunch of feature products. The subscriptions are down here. Whether you like shirts or stickers, it is like I said, one of my favorite brands. Couldn't be more stoked to be involved. One of the best ways you can help the show and support me is actually by just supporting brands like Black Rifle Coffee. I believe in the people that founded it, believe what they stand for. I could not be more proud to be involved with them. Really happy to own one of their expressions or outposts here in Montana and literally just start thinking about this because hunting season is right around the corner. Don't wait if you need to order things so you can have coffee and caffeine in the field. Black Rifle coffee dot com. Get it done. Back to the show.

[Andy Stumpf]

And me not coming from that background would just sit there and I'd be like, man, I wonder, right? You try to say, you try to stay stoic or you give me a little.

[Michael Glover]

When they use a word, you're like.

[Andy Stumpf]

You'Re going, yeah, of course, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

In your head, you're like, quarterly. What does this word mean?

[Andy Stumpf]

Add item. No, Adam. Ad nauseam. Yeah. And so it literally came down to trying to reinforce. I look at it as like a foreign language. So what I've done is gone to school. I didn't go to school initially when I was younger. And so now going back and trying to backstop the things that I can learn and know to kind of grow everything bigger and just reinforce what you're doing, right? Like just be better at what you do. And in going back and getting that, it's one of those that I look at as a foreign language. Where in the world of a foreign language, if we're going to go out, if the US is going to go out and try to do do, whether strategic military, foreign nation building, state department stuff, you have to know the language. And when you don't know the language, you get a terp. And then when you have your terp, you're so far removed from what they're.

[Michael Glover]

Actually saying, you rely on them so much.

[Andy Stumpf]

And so then it becomes all the nuance, all of the unspoken. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to go learn this language. So I know it as a first language, right? Yeah. And then in those meetings when finance says a finance thing, I can just be like, hey, what did he say? And have him tell me. And then know for me, hey, that's accurate or not accurate. So it's just from a power standpoint, being able to go in there and say, I understand what you're doing. So it started that way with me and then now it's into a full blown MBA program, which makes no sense. So is this something that's on the record? Because I want to go on the record. Oh, there's no reason why the. What, what are you doing, son? Right.

[Michael Glover]

I think this for you or NBA in general.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay, sure. No need to push back. And it's one of those where it's like, there has to be. And I know that you, there's phases of your life that you've been through where professionally it was like, you go out, you gain this skill, you come back, you team teach this skill. And so that's how I approached it. We're a family business. My sons work for us. We have four kids. Our oldest two are boys and they both work for us. And it's one of those where it's like, if I'm going to put them in a better position, if I'm going to build this and create this and steward this, then I should have those things to be able to translate that and push that forward. So it was like, okay, then it's incumbent upon me to go out just like we used to get that knowledge, come back and be like, hey, you didn't have the time to go. I'm the one that went, here's the notes. This is what you do and be like, yeah, cool.

[Michael Glover]

Do you rob them of their chance to gain the knowledge the way that.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think I'm saving them a ton of money. Because what I'm finding is I think you're right.

[Michael Glover]

It's an open ended question because I don't know the answer to it. Because should they struggle and suffer and learn the lessons that you are. There's an argument for. Yes, there's an argument for you saving them money, saving them time. They could lever ahead because you know, you used Evan and Josh as an example. Those companies exploded. Neither of them went to school either. So there's definitely multiple ways to do it. I think there was a timing aspect for both. I think what both really had in their favor was branding that stuck with people. Specifically Black Rifle Coffee when Evan launched it. I mean, let's just be honest, people are way more supportive of veteran based initiatives in our era than say Vietnam, where you probably weren't going to get a lot of support for a veteran backed business when you got home. And I say that based off of the experience of a lot of Vietnam veterans. Josh. The same thing. Their branding is spectacular. Visually, it's appealing. They hooked into social media. But again, for every one of those that's out there, there's probably countless people who have a valid idea and it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Just doesn't catch or they just don't push it. That's the other part. It's a big part. Right. Like that's the, there's a huge aspect of this, of you have to be the person that carries the belief forward. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Cause either of them, had they stopped before it actually levered, they'd be, you know, we wouldn't be talking about them. We'd have different examples.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. This goes to. One of the things that I'm working on now is foundership. I don't know if you and I have talked about that recently at the.

[Michael Glover]

Coffee shop that one night.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay. Yeah. So within foundership, it came up in schooling when I was writing all of these papers, getting horrible grades, just underperforming. So I'm consistent. You can chart me across my life path and I'm doing, I'm right on. So I'm like, okay, still not performing good. But it's the idea of. So foundership is a first principles discipline to steward belief across growth, time, context, all of that. And so when we look at that, we look at, let's take Black Rifle. Evan started Black Rifle. He holds the belief for that Josh Montana knife, Steve Jobs and Apple, all.

[Michael Glover]

Of those examples too passionate about where like Evan was roasting his own coffee.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Josh was the youngest master bladesmith, Steve Jobs. I don't know what he was doing.

[Andy Stumpf]

So. But it's the idea of when those Founders leave. What does that company become? We've all been in groups and organizations and know people where you go in and you interact with someone, and they're like, hey, man, I just work here. Yeah, you're right. Which is so far removed from what the founder built.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And so when I was having to produce these papers and study these things and have conversations with people and getting poor grades on the leadership side, I would sit there and I'd be like, wait a minute. I think I understand leadership. I think I've been around it a little bit. I think I've been on the receiving end, the giving end of good and bad leadership. How am I getting this wrong? How am I so wrong in this? In what, when it actually happened was I was in the middle of the school I'm going to is British, right?

[Michael Glover]

Do you guys wear ascots?

[Andy Stumpf]

We do, yes.

[Michael Glover]

Top hats on Fridays, but we wear.

[Andy Stumpf]

Them backwards so they can. So the man can still own. It's the tall top hat, not the small one. Yeah, of course. It's the one where Lincoln would be like, nice hat, my friend.

[Michael Glover]

Totally.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And so we had our residency week right where you sit there and you're like, okay, I'm getting ready for my dissertation. We're setting all these things up, and in that week, you have to pitch your idea. I'm like, hey, here's my idea. No, it's not really a thing. And it's all based around leadership. And so I was struggling with. I was actually mowing the lawn. Got my headphones on. I'm listening to a podcast. I'm pushing this mower across our yard because we have some graduation party going off for a kid of ours coming up. And I'm sitting there and I'm struggling with how come I'm getting these poor grades when it comes around leadership in business. And they're the two things that I know, Right?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So it's like, wait a minute.

[Michael Glover]

I'm. Put an asterisk on that, though. We know military leadership.

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't know. I wasn't in the military. Well, so I know I was military.

[Michael Glover]

You were adjacent. We can get to your background, and I don't actually even know how much you can talk about it, but you were around. I'll call it the military infrastructure. In my interactions with. We'll just call the Alphabet soup Crew. The leadership models are very parallel and similar. I used to think the military was the incubator for the best leadership model in the world.

[Andy Stumpf]

Oh, was that. Did you keep that for, like, try.

[Michael Glover]

To replicate it in a world that doesn't have the buy in that specifically the military, take it even smaller. Special operations take it even smaller to a JSOC level. Take it even smaller to a color on the rainbow level. People are kicking and scratching and fighting to be there. It is the easy. You could say, I need you to crawl through coals. And like, roger that. Would you like 50 yards or 100? If I treat the average age of our barista is somewhere in the early 20s to the late teens. You've been around. Are kind enough to know how we speak to each other. Perhaps leaning a little bit on negative reinforcement versus positive. I would have zero employees.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's a swath of enforcement. That's pretty effective, right? It works.

[Michael Glover]

But because they're contractually obligated, they volunteered multiple times. They literally bled to be there. They're bought in. Almost all of that doesn't exist in the civilian world. If you don't modify the way that you lead out of the military, you are in for a very interesting road. And I think the proof in that is if the military model was in and of itself a good fit for the business world, every leader that we saw exiting the military would succeed and thrive.

[Andy Stumpf]

And they don't.

[Michael Glover]

They don't.

[Andy Stumpf]

No, they don't. And some of that goes to that core belief system. How do I get an employee to believe in what I'm believing in?

[Michael Glover]

Threats of violence, of course.

[Andy Stumpf]

Of course. Yeah. And physical. Right. Like.

[Michael Glover]

And of course they're followed up on to others. I tell my wife sometimes, do you know why I need to kill a fly with a hammer? And she'll be like, what in the actual fuck is wrong with you? Why are you asking me this question? I'm like, just stay with me.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, I'm curious what your answer is.

[Michael Glover]

So the other flies pay attention.

[Andy Stumpf]

See, mine is so my children recognize that. It's like, oh, wait a minute, this guy.

[Michael Glover]

The other flies are not more dead.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

But they're like, wow, why did that guy do that?

[Andy Stumpf]

Not only gonna hit that fly. I'm not fixing that hole in the wall. So you all remember, right?

[Michael Glover]

It's a mo. It's a great model. If you can match that pool of people, which I haven't seen every organization, I haven't interfaced with them all. But in the ones that I have, I've seen flavors of buy in and a lot of it depends on size. You know, an organization with 10,000 people, good luck, you're gonna have a variety. Maybe a core group of People will. But I have not seen it mirrored.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think it goes back to belief. I mean, and that's why I wrote that out. That's why I wrote out the foundership piece was to be able to define because what I was getting. I'm pushing that mower. Hot day, trying to mow the lawn. Got a graduation party coming up in a couple of weeks. It was around Father's Day, because I'm in the middle of pushing that, dealing with the struggle of the class where the doctors running this class are like, no, man, you're off. And I'm like, I'm not off. Like, I get this. I know this on so many levels. How am I academically off? And I say out loud, these aren't leadership. I'm the crazy neighbor pushing a mower, right? With a. With my headphones on. And I'm yelling out loud, right? And I'm like, no, these aren't. You know, I know what I'm talking about, you know, And I say out loud, these aren't leadership issues. I'm like, these aren't leadership issues, they're foundership issues. And that was the first time I had ever said foundership. I stopped the mower and I'm like, what'd you say? And I go into the office. So we have a. At the house. My wife's a schoolteacher. So in the height right at the beginning of COVID I built her a studio that she could teach out of. Because we had three of our four kids in school during a lockdown and one woman trying to teach school. And in a small house. It's just everybody you are arguing, right. You're like overhearing these other arguments.

[Michael Glover]

You realize in a few decades people will not believe.

[Andy Stumpf]

No.

[Michael Glover]

That you'll try to describe to them the lockdown of COVID and they'll look at you.

[Andy Stumpf]

You know what I think will be cool is in the, in. In real estate, I think in 30 and 40 years, do you know how like our parents or that generation of people bought those pillbox or those square cement houses that are. And they refer to them as that. Like a post war house.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Because so many people started building those out structures around their house like I did. I built her a 10 by 12 studio to be able to go teach it? I think they're going to within real estate. Talk about, oh, it's a Covid. It's a Covid house. Like this is one of those that was built. And they'll go, oh yeah, I heard about this. Yeah. Like when the Milkman used to put it on the porch. And you'll be set it down there.

[Michael Glover]

Every picture in that era with the masking and all the weird, for us, instantly we'll get it. Future generations will just wonder what was wrong with us.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's like a 911 piece.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So when I used to teach when I was at the agency, and you'd get groups of people in, I would say, how many of you were adults when 911 happened? Because adults, adult men in an operational environment, law enforcement, military, fed. When 911 happened that day, it was game on. Right. Children, no idea. I have no idea how they lived, you know. Right. Like what their perceptions were and how that happened. But I know from my position it was like, ooh, like here we go. Right. Like it's a. So it just had this totally different dynamic. So in the middle of this lawn mowing experience, I shut that thing off and I'm like, foundership. Oh, foundership. Like what a founder believes. Like Evan, what he believes, the core belief and how he built that into a billion dollar company. And Josh and what he believes. And then guys like Jobs that when Steve Jobs left Apple, what did they ultimately have to do?

[Michael Glover]

They brought his ass back, hire him.

[Andy Stumpf]

Back, and be like, man, we don't know what we're doing. And it's one of those. The transfer of the belief that started it. And when it's absent, it's just gone. You can walk into places and be like, hey man, I need one of these. And talk to an employee. And they'll be like, yeah, man, I just work here. And to me, as a business owner and to you, at a certain level, if I heard someone say to somebody, hey man, I just work here, I'd be like, nothing I've done has mattered. Yeah. In this business, if that's where your.

[Michael Glover]

Belief is, I would follow that up with, hey, man, you used to work.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yes. You are free to go.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. You know, if that's the attitude that we have, let's kick that attitude on down the street. You know, I've actually spent enough time with Evan off camera. Just, you know, actually we've traveled a large portion of the world together at this point. I don't know if it's possible to transfer that passion that he has into others. I really. The vision. He can try to explain it, but I bet you he would even say he struggles at times to explain exactly how deeply or the why. Yeah. How can you pass that on?

[Andy Stumpf]

I think it goes through the tangible actions that you do. Right. It's the day to day. It's the piece I went to. So when I was at the agency, we're not allowed to have snipers, Right. Why Dealey Plaza?

[Michael Glover]

So I mean, that was just one time.

[Andy Stumpf]

One guy, one time. Yeah. So allegedly we were creating from the training cadre, we had created a distance rifle course. So as the cadre, you go through your own system, right. So we got to go out, do these quals and run this stuff because guys are going to start coming through the pipeline. And next to me is a former dev guy who has now worked for the organization for a number of years, had been a sniper and I'd known him for a number of years. And so we're getting ready to run through this qual that we all created and had to do. But you gotta go do it. And it's 25 meters out to 800 or so. It's random. You get in the back of a mule, drive you around, stop you somewhere and you have 30 seconds to do these three shots on different targets.

[Michael Glover]

Sounds a lot like sniper school.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And you may and you may not be, you know, in an advantageous position to do that. You're like, damn it, I got to run up that hill and I got.

[Michael Glover]

To shoot a heart rate.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah. And part of the character of how we would do that or the way the manner in which we would run that system is we're not clicking those systems right. You're just shooting holds. So you're establishing that and then everything is just quick gunning shooting holds. Yeah, you're not dialing anything in. You don't have time. So I'm sitting here, we're doing our final brief. He's next to me and he pulls a Sharpie out, right? And he draws his reticle on the back of his support hand and he starts drawing like 400 this, 600 this, below the bottom that. And I'm like, huh? I pull a sharpie out and I just mimic 100.

[Michael Glover]

Requires no batteries.

[Andy Stumpf]

I'm like, I know exactly what. When I snap that up and I can look at that and be like, oh, it's this.

[Michael Glover]

Ah. Just take a guess. Yeah, it's way better than a press as stressful testing situation. I think it's.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, you're in a one off. Yeah. Yeah. You're either you pass this or go get on the bus.

[Michael Glover]

Totally.

[Andy Stumpf]

Why not? Let's swag. Let's just wag this shit. And I do that and the guy on my right looks over and he's like, oh, right he does what you're doing. Like if two men are standing here, all things being equal, one should be kicking the other in the nuts for something. Yeah. Like it's a. So he says, oh, you're not confident in what you're doing?

[Michael Glover]

Oh boy.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I just was like, no, not at all. And I go. And then I say back, I was like, not as confident as a 20 year dev sniper. Yeah, right. Who's been with us 10 years. So yeah, if he writes on his fucking hand, but right on my fucking hand, like you're also.

[Michael Glover]

Do you want to borrow my Sharpie? Is that the issue? You don't have one of your.

[Andy Stumpf]

You're now recognizing. Oh, shit. There's a whole gap, I don't know, in my knowledge. So in looking at that, in that transference of belief, of skill, of being able to just distill all of that down to that core piece. Hey, man, here is everything you need to be successful right here. And I can see it, I can reference it, I can execute it immediately. I think goes to the Josh piece, the Evan Peace, you, me, whoever is out there. I mean, there's a lot of people listening to you all the time. And it's one of those where everyone that can hear our voice right now is in some organization where they either carry that belief or they don't. And to me, as someone who has created an organization that has belief in that, right? We make the finest operational mission timer in the world, guaranteed. I know that. And it's like, okay, with that. How are we going to execute that every day? And in that difficulty, I think people stumble when they're not on board, right? When guys, when you're going through your selection process and dudes are out and you're like, hey man, whether you're out now or on day four, you're out. When you're on the bus, it just took you four days. And then there's others where you're like, that's not an option, right? This is. That was never the question. The question was later on, right? Am I going to. Am I going to break and have to do this or am I. So for me, it's one of those in being able to. I'm taking that school side now. First of all, we all are in organizations that we started that are those kind of petri dishes where we can start to make sure we can take everything that's worked right, everything throughout your entire professional life that you can now take into your own building and be like, this is how we're Going to do this and be able to adjust it. Right. It's right in that reticle in your hand where you just be like, hey, this is a guide.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And then based on when, based on this, I'm going to adjust on that. So.

[Michael Glover]

That radical example, to me, I know exactly the type of person that you were talking about.

[Andy Stumpf]

You'd probably know the person talking about. So.

[Michael Glover]

But it's somebody who does that to me when you describe that is somebody who is wildly experienced. Because they don't. The most experienced, most capable people I know never took the attitude of the guy who was off to your right of oh, hey, you're not confident, or oh, hey, you want to rely on your memory. Because the most experienced people know that you can free up bandwidth by not trying to do that. And something very simple like a Sharpie. Also, if you're gonna write on yourself with a Sharpie, have an alcohol pad with you, everyone. It makes it easier. So I learned that once. One time when I was flex tied and I had a Sharpie mustache and goatee. But it's a different story.

[Andy Stumpf]

Were they at least on your face?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, all over. I think I had glasses too. Sharpies help. And also I used to like to draw mustaches on people's military ID cards when they leave them in the computers. That was of my favorites. But that person, that is just the distillation of experience and wisdom and self confidence that you don't have to explain why you have that on your hand. Because you know what, I'm not going to say anything. Maybe just try to match my score.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah. And he didn't tell me, right?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I'd known him for years and he wasn't like, hey, Matt, here's a good idea. No.

[Michael Glover]

Because you recognize what it was just over there.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I was like, ooh, here is a pro, a pros pro. Somebody who is like, yep, that's a guy that lives at the pinnacle, right. He's the. People talk about summiting Everest.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And they write books about it and they make movies and all that stuff. And you're like, hey, man, there's Sherpas that have done that 30 times.

[Michael Glover]

Right? It's called in a season.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's called Tuesday. Yeah, right. They're like, this guy.

[Michael Glover]

People will be disappointed to hear that at the agency, highly capable individuals writing on their hand with a Sharpie. They would want it to be some high speed computer screen that was flipped up.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's a satellite right now they're like.

[Michael Glover]

I've got you it's this. And this is a Sharpie pen.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's a Sharpie on the back of a hand.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it was just the distillation of everything he had done. Couple of things, couple of layers here that I think are amazing. Number one, he has nothing to prove to anybody. Right. Staff member, been there forever. Just a guy who is like the standard bearer and he's doing this. Then there's me, right? Walks backwards into a circus and it's like, hey, I can be a clown. Right? So. And they're like, yeah. And recognizing, like, if this guy's gonna do that, right. It's probably best you pull your Sharpie out and write something on your hand. Yeah, right. Like it's that whole belief system transfer where you're like, I don't need all of those years of things. Right? It is that core piece, man. It was great. I can't remember if the other guy. I mean, I'm sure the other guy passed, but it wasn't.

[Michael Glover]

I bet you three of you he probably had the lower score.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

What did you do before you started working there? What led you to deciding that government service was a good idea for you?

[Andy Stumpf]

I'm not sure I believe that at.

[Michael Glover]

Some point in time you might have thought it was a good idea.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

We all come to our own conclusions about working for the government.

[Andy Stumpf]

I started in law enforcement, so. Started in law enforcement pre 9 11. Wanted to be a firefighter. My dad was a firefighter, so I grew up in the Seattle area. He had worked for the Seattle Fire Department. And they never work, right. Like firefighters work like eight days a month or something like that.

[Michael Glover]

They do a lot of medical calls. Yeah, yeah. 10 days a month is my. I think my brother in law works in San Diego.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Eight days a month. My dad said it was the best part time job ever. He says it's like camping with 10 of your closest friends, except the fires are bigger. And I was like. So I had tested for that. I think I came out when I was 19. I tested for that 19, 20 tested and came out in the top 3 or 4%. Didn't even get an interview. It was just in the early 90s where they're like, yeah, you're not going to get this job. So got into law enforcement. We're all law enforcement, firefighters or teachers. Right. So I have an uncle who's a couple of years older than me. Based on great family tree structures, why wouldn't you be right? Hey, you're my uncle and you're raised as my brother. Sure.

[Michael Glover]

Drinking.

[Andy Stumpf]

Let's not dig into this too deep. So he was a cop. His dad had been a career law enforcement guy. So he was a cop. And I was going through some like, what am I going to do?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And he was working nights and he was like, hey, come out and ride around with me and we'll figure out your life. So I go out, ride around with him. We get done that night. It was a 12 hour shift from like 6 to 6. And in the morning he's like, hey, you get. Get any closure or any new ideas or anything like that? And I was like, how do you get this job? Like, are you serious? Like, this is nine, early 90s. And I'm like, you.

[Michael Glover]

He's like, this job, we're talking wheel guns.

[Andy Stumpf]

Oh, no, not that point.

[Michael Glover]

Damn it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Ankle guns were wheel guns.

[Michael Glover]

So I was in Starbucks one time in San Diego. Apparently there was one sheriff's deputy who had official permission to roll with a revolver. And I got to stand behind him and it was yes.

[Andy Stumpf]

Why wouldn't you? Right. If you get permission, you wouldn't do a straight draw. You'd do cross draw.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, we're talking like speed reloaders on the belt.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, I'm not like I had been in the team.

[Andy Stumpf]

Did he look like he was the college roommate of the Marlboro Man? Like they had gone back that far. Did he have that where he was like, he was.

[Michael Glover]

He was there for business. Less. More business, less party.

[Andy Stumpf]

Doing that, doing the finger touch on the thing.

[Michael Glover]

I don't think he never went that far, but I respected it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

I don't know if I would have enjoyed that if he ever got into a kinetic engagement.

[Andy Stumpf]

But then again, that guy carrying that thing, right. That dude's the guy you're gonna be like, wait a minute.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Like, what do you. Isn't that a revolver?

[Michael Glover]

I believe it was the last revolver in service in the San Diego area.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's cool.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, unless you need.

[Andy Stumpf]

Or it's not. Right. Like, maybe they were one of those guys where they were like, hey, Gary.

[Michael Glover]

There'S no six plus one with that. That's just six.

[Andy Stumpf]

We're not going to bring you over to the Glock yet. Right. Like that's going to keep you at like, there's only six things that you have to write about.

[Michael Glover]

I feel like he had to pass the same quals.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

You know?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Choices. All right, so you were post wheelgun, which is unfortunate.

[Andy Stumpf]

Post wheel gun. And I was just like, hey, man, how do you do this. Like, what do you gotta like you. We've driven 130 miles an hour, right. You're hitting people with sticks, you're pointing guns at people, you're doing whatever you want. Like your sergeant will say, hey, I need you to do this. And you'll be like, nah, I might do that. Right? Like it's this horrible whole autonomous. Like what? Like is there adult supervision around here? What is happening? And he was like, oh, this job, right. You just got to apply to this job. Like it was Those, the early 90s in law enforcement, right. You just show up and they're like, yeah man, go for it. So, yeah. So normally when people will ask how I went from like small town law enforcement to the CIA, the answer is a series of poor life decisions.

[Michael Glover]

But as is the case often.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So that's what started it. And then 911 kicked off.

[Michael Glover]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

So in my law enforcement time, that organization, law enforcement as a whole, at least when I was involved in it, is stratified by what you do. So if you're a shooter, you're going to be a tactical guy. If you're great at report writing, you're probably going to go over to some investigations. If you're a numbers cruncher, you know, like everything kind of gets. Segregated is the wrong word, but it fits.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I came out of the police academy as the top shooter and they were like, okay, here you go. So you get that group of guys that either are range masters or tactical guys. So that was kind of my coming up was being raised on the job by those groups of individuals. So that opened up all of those schools, all of those jobs.

[Michael Glover]

That's kind of a big jump though, to go from. And you were up in the Seattle area at that time. I mean, not only that's geographically really far away from Virginia.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, it's the opposite.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. I mean probably if you were to draw it out, I guess you could go down to like the southern tip of the, the wall at Imperial beach separating San Diego from Mexico, maybe a touch farther. But you did pretty good job as far as distance. Was it even on your radar? Was it something that you wanted? Yeah, because it's not.

[Andy Stumpf]

No. I grew up in the northwest and so later on when I was living in Virginia and we were raising kids in Virginia, you can't go to church, go to the grocery store, or go to the post office without bumping into people that are every agency everywhere.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's just the way it is. So when, when people are born and raised out there, Everybody knows somebody that does that, Mr. Being born and raised Seattle, north of Seattle, that thing existed only in books and movies. I had no concept of even an ability to go do that. So 911 kicked off. And when 911 kicked off, it was. That kind of opened the gates to go do some things. And one of those was the Air Marshal Service. So prior to 9 11, to be able to do tactics on board an aircraft, right, you're in a tiered unit or you're at hrt. Yeah, I mean, that's just the way it is, right? You're not gonna be a local SWAT guy and be like, oh, the plane was hijacked, let's go, Gary.

[Michael Glover]

Honestly, even at a tiered unit, you're gonna be in army side, you're gonna be at cag. Because that is literally the. It's hilarious. They were designed for Aircraft Development Group, was designed for cruise ships. Neither have ever actually been action for real, but that's what they're specially supposed to be. That was by design. So, I mean, I've never, I mean, I've obviously been in airplanes. I've never done a clearance, but those guys would get it for sure.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Or hrt.

[Andy Stumpf]

So having that peer group of leaders in my life that were former SF guys or former team guys in the tactical world of law enforcement. When 911 kicked off and they opened up the Air Marshal Program again, I mean, I initially faxed my resume. You. We faxed a resume and a cover letter from one of the team rooms at First Group down at Fort Lewis with guys that were just stacking shit together and being like. And we faxed them to the office of. Was it K. Bailey Hutchison from Texas was a senator that was on the aviation subcommittee. And it was like, hey, here's my paperwork. You're like, I don't know. It's better than put in the mail. So I had put in for that because part of it was that template, that linear assault template on an aircraft was you're not going to read the book, you're not going to see the book. Like you said, you're not going to be. You're not going to see the aircraft. You're not. You're going to be on a response team and you won't be able to see the Runway from where you are in proximity to where they're hitting the plane. And being a student and always wanting to learn about that stuff, it was like, ooh, that sounds fun, right?

[Michael Glover]

I mean, here's an interesting tactical problem for sure it is.

[Andy Stumpf]

And Especially when they lead with this. So going through the selection process with that, they lead with. If you're not sitting down eating chicken, you're standing up killing people. You're like, oh, okay, a fan of both of them. Right? Like that's a. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I can have more chicken and have some. And the only way to regain control of an aircraft is to re. Hijack it. So if someone came to you and said, Andy, not do you want to do linear assault tactics on an aircraft? Hey, man, you want to go hijack a plane?

[Michael Glover]

100%.

[Andy Stumpf]

Uh huh. Yeah. You want to do it with a friend?

[Michael Glover]

Yes, of course.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. With pistols.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. And who doesn't like a really high budget.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

And autonomy to operate. Yes.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Yeah. So I applied with. Well, when I left there and was counseled by my supervisor about leaving because I was, I was leaving, I was quitting. He said, 327,000 people applied for your job. If you don't want it, leave. I was like, okay, that sounds fine.

[Michael Glover]

327,000 people didn't know what the job actually entailed.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Because I've never hadn't heard you get chicken.

[Michael Glover]

I. I hadn't. I've never been an air marshal. I'm sure the training is great, but I also think you spent a lot of time sitting in an airplane, traveling the country doing.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's in the call, it's in the name, it's in the title, which is good, right? Yeah. And that's when I was working with guys, ultimately when I ended up there. And you're working with guys and they complain about flying a lot. You're like, you. You saw the thing, right?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Like you're.

[Michael Glover]

This isn't a bus marshal.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's about the airplane. They are now. But post, it should be probably.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Post 9 11, it was, it was a good place to go, Right.

[Michael Glover]

It had to have been pretty mundane work, though.

[Andy Stumpf]

Oh, yeah. Sitting on a plane.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. However, I used to always play pick out the air marshal. You guys were not hard to find.

[Andy Stumpf]

No, no.

[Michael Glover]

Especially on a. Shockingly, it's like, wow, how'd this guy get on the plane before me?

[Andy Stumpf]

Who's not drinking? Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Who's not sleeping? Yeah. Weird.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So, yeah, it was good. Post 9 11, it was good. We had. Like you said, we had a great budget. We had unlimited ammo. I was there for just shy of four years, and I think I averaged about. Well, I know exactly what it was. I averaged about 84, 000 rounds a year out of that Sig 229.

[Michael Glover]

Yep. And that was a jump from state to federal as well.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right.

[Michael Glover]

Air marshals were. So did you have to go through fletc?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So the good thing about the air marshal side then. I'm sure it's still there now is you got a TS clearance with it. So you had the full boat TS.

[Michael Glover]

Infinitely employable with the FLEXI credentials. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So now you're in the federal system. You're in a federal system as a federal agent that doesn't need a four year degree. So that was a. Still a barrier of mine that I'm trying to get past.

[Michael Glover]

You're gonna get there. Pace yourself.

[Andy Stumpf]

What's really neat is after I get my mba, I say, still will not have a four year degree. It'll take me four years to get a two year. But, you know, I feel like. What's that movie where they say a lot of people go to school for six years? They're called doctors. Right. Like, that's good.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Tommy boy. Tommy boy.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, you hold on. We have to. Actually. Today is a day for the Journal. That is the first time he has ever gotten a single movie quote and had the answer to it. I didn't even bother when we were talking about Rod. Gene Dangerfield. Do you even have any idea what we're talking about?

[Andy Stumpf]

No, but you guys said the stepbrothers quote, and I knew that one.

[Michael Glover]

But potentially it is shocking how poorly educated the youth is when it comes to movies.

[Andy Stumpf]

That again, iconic films.

[Michael Glover]

The SEAL community. Most of our vernacular came from films.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, we did. Speaking of air marshals, we used to. So I go into that gig because I get free ammo. Right. And they pay well and I get a TS clearance. Yeah. Sounds like a lot of fun.

[Michael Glover]

Were you guys GS pay grade?

[Andy Stumpf]

They came out with pay banding. Interesting because it started under the FAA and the FAA wasn't GS. So it was one of those where they kind of entice you with. Here's the band. So there's a couple of things going on about the air marshals that were pretty cool at the time. It did not happen for my class. I was the last of the plank owners. And prior to us, you would shoot for pay. What? Yeah. So as a guy that came from a shooting background, like attacking, like. Wait, wait a minute. What? And they're like, yeah, you draw fire these rounds in this time, right. Say 2.4 seconds and you're at $52,000 a year. Want to do it in 2.2 and you go to 58.

[Michael Glover]

Yes.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah. And so I'm standing there, I'm like, yeah, man, fucking hit that buzzer. Let's go. Right. Like, I can get this down to. What do we get? You know? Yeah. For pay. Which was. So when you look at, like, we can. We can make all the jokes we want about, you know, the flight attendants and all of the job being boring. However, when you look at, hey, I'm just a guy, I was no different than any other air marshal, other than kind of my own internal motivation to be better. So I would always shoot more. I was the top shooter from our program and unlimited ammo. And you're telling me that you reward me based on my ability to run a gun? Like, who's doing that?

[Michael Glover]

So nobody.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. That template at that time was like, this is what we need, right? If you're not sitting down eating chicken, it was like, ooh, this is legit. So, yeah, they would sit there with those quals and those standards, and they'd be like, hey, good job, andy. You did 2.4, right? 2.4 seconds. You do it three times, they mark it off and they're like, you want to go for the 2.2? Like, huh? Right? You're just like putting it back. And then you knock that out and they're like, okay, you did that three times. You want to go to 2.1 or 2.0? Uh huh. So.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, giddy up.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yes, absolutely. We would. When we went to FLETC down in Artesia, you'd be standing on the first of all, you're going, I came from local law enforcement where you're doing reports, right? You're literally writing things out. You're dealing with all of that. And you go into the air marshals and they're like, hey, when you shoot somebody in this job, you don't have to even identify yourself to the. So when the FBI shows up to do the investigation, you just say, if you and I are partners, we just say, I'm Fam one, he's Fam two. And they'll go, what's your name? And you're like, I don't have to disclose my name. Yeah. They're not pulling your gun from you. Yeah. You're just like, hey, write your stuff, Bureau man. This is what happened. Like, that's the. Jesus. Yeah, I was still working. I can't remember what year it happened. But when Alpazar, the. The passenger Alpazar that came up from South America, that was killed In Miami by the fams who stood up, had his bag on his chest, and said he had a bomb.

[Michael Glover]

I don't remember this. Yeah, they actually burned a guy down.

[Andy Stumpf]

He was right on the jet bridge. So he. They came in from international, swapped passengers to maintain the domestic side. He is disturbed. I think it came out medication wise. He's off his meds. He has a backpack on his chest, and he runs up through the front of the airplane saying he has a bomb. And he's headed out onto the jet bridge. So they activate. They go out there, they start issuing commands in both English and Spanish. And he turns around and reaches into the bag and they burn him down. Within an hour, President Bush is like, yeah, that's what we do. So we're texting each other and we're like, dude, I think that's a green light. Right? Like, I think when the president of the United. Before there's even an investigation, the president's like, yeah, man. Like, fuck around, find out.

[Michael Glover]

You're like, wow, have you seen the video of him golden dodging a shoe at the podium? So he's got moves.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you want to get into that story?

[Michael Glover]

Yes. First off, I just, I respect that he dodged it and stayed up there.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So we. Later on in life, I'm. I end up at the agency. And did you go from the air.

[Michael Glover]

Marshals to the agency?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Okay, cool. Yeah, we'll get back. I want to get back to that origin, but we got to talk about the foot. Well, we'll get to the shoot. Yes. Michael doing his job.

[Andy Stumpf]

So they. They're going to chuck this shoe.

[Michael Glover]

Look at that move. He's like, you got another one. He's smiling at it. He's fucking laughing at it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Later on, he is in the car and they're driving away and everybody's quiet. And I know this from one of the CAT team members.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Who came down and worked with us at the organization. So he says, yeah, I was there, man. I was like, on that. And. Because later on at the agency, we're dealing in and around the protective envelope.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. The bubble. Yep.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it becomes, how do you. How do you do things that you're supposed to do from your SOPs if you have a principal like this who won't leave? So if you're like, hey, I need to get this guy out of here. And he's going to stand there and dodge him and, you know, play slap tickle with it. What do you do when you're saying you're leaving?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And look at The Trump assassination, where it's like, he's standing there and they're trying to cover an evac, and he's like, oh, hang on a second. I want to give a stump speech. And you're like, geez. So one of the gentlemen involved in this, and we'll just leave it that generalized says. They're in the car driving away, and the President says, how cool would it have been if I'd cut that shit? And you're like, that is the most badass thing. And then says something like, I own the Texas Rangers. Like, I'm a baseball guy. Like, how cool would it have been if I had caught that shoe?

[Michael Glover]

I mean, he is, first off, great camera guy, is now pointing back at shoe thrower. The President is just, like, laughing at him.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. The other thing, apparently, that happened that I think goes to who we are as a country and what we actually do globally is apparently during that vehicle evac, there's people outside with a shoe thrower, and they're gonna execute him. Jesus. Yeah. And apparently he says, get out and stop that. Because if they do that, none of what we're doing matters.

[Michael Glover]

True story.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it's like, you know what? That right there, like, from the top on down of, like, we can't be here talking about how your vote matters when it's like, I threw a shoe and ate a five, five, six. Right. Like, it's a. But, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

There's another great one of Reagan who's speaking, and I think it. I don't know if it was pre or post when he actually got shot, but a balloon goes off and it sounds like a rifle. And he pauses and he goes, missed me. And continues with the speech. Savage.

[Andy Stumpf]

So good. So, so good. We, as an air marshal, there may have been. I cannot. Oh, here he is.

[Michael Glover]

Michael, you're on it today.

[Andy Stumpf]

Every day.

[Michael Glover]

I mean.

[Andy Stumpf]

Oh, except it's muted. Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Where was Mr. On it every day.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Berlin remains the most compelling argument for an open world. We're reminded of the many traditions of openness and democracy that have marked the.

[Michael Glover]

History of this city, America.

[Andy Stumpf]

Miss me? That is. That is. Yeah. Is that 87 off the date? It had to be post, right? Had to be after he. I don't know. When he got shot. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

When did he get shot?

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, I don't know. It's. You can't pin that on me.

[Michael Glover]

Stone cold Savage. Yeah, he actually continued a bit. Stopped, addressed it, and then continued on.

[Andy Stumpf]

Had to be after. Yeah, he got shot in 81, actually.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, I Don't know if I would have had that reaction after getting literally gunned down in the street. Yeah, man.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

All right.

[Andy Stumpf]

Better than somebody off camera saying, come left, three right. Like, you'd be like.

[Michael Glover]

That was a bad look when Trump was still standing there. And it's probably an indication you need to have people who are physically capable of moving the principal because I. No judgment to anybody. There were some smaller people around him.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. I think it goes to. I think it goes to having been in and around that environment for those years, it's like, hey, man. It's the. What do you do when the boss. I mean, that was the core of the question.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

What do you do when someone throws a shoe? And it's like, hey, we're gonna get this guy out. And he's like, no, I'm gonna stand here and talk.

[Michael Glover]

And you're like, shoe is one thing.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, yes. Okay.

[Michael Glover]

You know a guy dead in the crowd behind you in clear ballistic snaps.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

I think the CAT team needs to drag him off the stage, especially if the close protection special agents are not physically able to do so. He stood there for a long time.

[Andy Stumpf]

It was a bit.

[Michael Glover]

It was a bit.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. Iconic picture, for sure. You know what kills me is the number of people who think that that was staged. You are an expert marksman.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, no.

[Michael Glover]

Well, play along. Pretend as if you want.

[Andy Stumpf]

I drew that reticle.

[Michael Glover]

I worked with some of the best marksmen in the world, and there is not a single one of them that I would trust to shoot me in the ear. Yeah. And people think that somehow that. That actually they're like, yeah, he told him just to nick him in the air. I'm like, you people don't understand around.

[Andy Stumpf]

People that have been.

[Michael Glover]

I don't care if it's. Well, maybe it was a hundred yard shot. I don't know. No, I still wouldn't do.

[Andy Stumpf]

No, it would be. Yeah, that'd be tough. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

And that, you know, oh, there's not enough damage. I'm like, it nicked his ear and he's moving. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right. So that's not.

[Michael Glover]

Dude, if he had his head. That had been a totally different visual.

[Andy Stumpf]

I was watching that. I was at home working on some stuff when that was going on live. And I saw that. And one of the things that really bothered me was it's just kind of like it stops the coverage. They just go to some random thing.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I was like, dang it. That's one of the things where it's like, oh, I want where's the feeds? Where's the 10 screens? Where's the satellite shot of this happening live? And you're hearing like, zoom in. I want to hear what he's saying. Right. Like it's.

[Michael Glover]

Oh, the agency suite. That's five times this room that has TVs everywhere.

[Andy Stumpf]

And one of them's just random European football.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. Switch to the over the shoulder shot. Read is the. Where's our lip reader? Yeah, I wish. I wish it was that cool. That's an interesting problem. Those security perimeters especially, I mean, I mean, because there's a mix that. Right. There's people who are working there. Overtly. There are people that are working there. That's a nightmare.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

A complicated environment would be a better way to describe it for sure.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. It's tough, especially when you have. Because it's moving.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right.

[Michael Glover]

But a bunch of people overlap as well.

[Andy Stumpf]

There's SWAT guys in that building. You're like, well, are they. Are they good guys? Are they bad guys? Like, they're all good guys. So then at what point does it become who's doing what? When? So, yeah, not a. Glad it wasn't my problem.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Not my problem.

[Michael Glover]

So how did you. How did the job present itself at the agency?

[Andy Stumpf]

So I. Being at the air marshals, I worked at the Chicago field office. So when they called me with the job offer, you have to stay on the phone to accept the offer. They're not calling you back. They're like, if you don't say you're taking this gig.

[Michael Glover]

What?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah, it was a.

[Michael Glover]

How did you know you were gonna give me a call?

[Andy Stumpf]

You don't.

[Michael Glover]

You just.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So it's a random morning and I'm a west coaster. So it 6:05 in the morning, my phone rings and it's somebody from back east. Hey, we're calling you for your job.

[Michael Glover]

Had you applied for one?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I'd applied, I'd gone through the selection process, done all of that stuff.

[Michael Glover]

What job had you actually applied for?

[Andy Stumpf]

For the air marshal job? No, no, I'm talking about the air.

[Michael Glover]

Okay, okay. I thought you're talking about the agency.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So at the air marshal job, they call and are like, hey, you're going to accept this job when you're on the phone with us right now or we're just calling the next guy.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, take your time. But you have less than a minute.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And I was like, well, hey, when my wife gets home, we'll talk about it. Right. Like, I'm married. We have Two kids. Like, I have a job. I'm working at the police department. Like this. There's going on. And they're like, no, if you don't take this gig, we're just going to move on. And I was like, okay. So I had. Throughout the selection process, I think when I went through, they said, you would be the sixth guy hired in the Seattle field office. And to this day, brother, I've never seen the Seattle field office. They called for that job, and we're like, you can go to Chicago or New York. I was like, oh, no. I was told I'm the sixth guy in the Seattle field office. And she's like, hey, man, Chicago or New York? Pick one.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I was like, man, if my wife comes home and I've moved us to New York, I'm fucked. If I've only moved us halfway, right? If I've only moved us halfway across.

[Michael Glover]

This country, it's good in theory.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, I could probably get away with that. She'll only be half as mad. So, yeah, I was like, okay, I'll take it. They fax a job offer to the police department. I get in a car, drive up there, and you sign it, send it back in. So I ended up in Chicago and in Chicago. So we moved, went out there to the Midwest. And throughout. I was there just shy of four years. And being from the Northwest, my parents were there. My dad had retired from the fire department, and he. The year that I left 07, he came down with cancer. He was diagnosed with stage four cancer. Early in the year was about January. And so I go into my supervisor, say, hey, I want to work out of the Seattle field office. So the days that I'm off, I can be with my dad. They were like, no, that's not a thing. I was like, oh, okay, I want to take leave so I can go be with my dad. They're like, no, that's. We're not doing that either. I was like, oh, okay. And I'm flipping through, like, regulations, right? Like, you know, like the book on Simpsons would say, like, government rules. And they're like, flipping through it. And I'm like, oh, the Federal Labor Standards act, where you can, like, care for a parent? I'm like, oh, can I. Can I do this? And they're like, no. So I go in. I go in to talk to our special agent in charge in Chicago, who is notorious for being a child. And when he would argue with you, he would take his shoe off and, like, hit it on the desk.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, it's like, as an adult?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah. As a tiny little. Well, he's an adult by age, but he was just kind of. So he would. He. Yeah, it was. It was ridiculous. So I go in there, and I'm waiting in, like, this row of chairs outside of his office while our number two guy in the field office, the assistant special agent in charge, is in there talking to him about. Now we're in Chicago, and the number two is from Indy. Indianapolis, and his wife is dying from cancer. And he says, I'm going to be working remotely from Indy. And he's like, no, you're not. And so when he walks out, I.

[Michael Glover]

Feel like you had the answers to the test before you went into the room.

[Andy Stumpf]

So when he walks out holding his paperwork and I'm sitting there holding mine, he's like, good luck, buddy. Right? Like, he's like, I'm the fucking number two in this place. And he just told me to pound sand. So I go in there and was like, hey, this is what I want to do. And he was like, that's when he said, 327,000 people applied for that job. If you don't want it, leave. And I said, okay. Like, I'm fine. Like, I can leave.

[Michael Glover]

I would have said, why don't we line up an evolution where 326,999 of those come in here and fuck you right in the attic, ass over your desk.

[Andy Stumpf]

Then.

[Michael Glover]

Then. Though I probably would have ended where they park. That's true.

[Andy Stumpf]

Where do you deal with parking?

[Michael Glover]

With flyman Ubers?

[Andy Stumpf]

Put them in. So I. I don't want to say storm out, because I just walked out. Kind of like, oh, yeah, I guess I'm out. And there was a gentleman that worked in that field office that had come from the agency, and I didn't know his background. He was one of our instructors. He was also a flying fam, so. So we used to have air marshals and chair marshals, and chair marshals were those that stayed in the office, couldn't pass a qualification, didn't carry a weapon. And he was an air marshal. He was a fully functioning air marshal, and he worked in and around training and operations. And so as I'm walking out, he grabs me and says, hey, man, before you do something stupid, right, let's go to lunch. Let's have a chat. So I got a lunch with him. I had no idea where he had come from. Just. He was exceptional at everything. Combatives, knives, shooting, tactics. He's just. He's just great. And we go to lunch. And he's like, what are you gonna do? I'm like, I don't care. I'm gonna go home, Brian. I'll go back to where I was working. And he said, if you're interested. If you're interested. His exact words were, I know a place where you would blossom. And I was like, okay. And he was like, call this number.

[Michael Glover]

Tell him I told you to call some random number.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So I call a number, this guy answers, and he's like, yeah, Jimmy John's. And so I call, and I said, hey. I say the name of the guy. I was like, hey, told me to call you. And he was like, yeah. In the 20 years that that man had worked here. So he had worked there prior to 911 for decades, and was part of the core cadre there.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And then when 911 kicked off and they opened up the Chicago field office, his dad was sick, and he had moved from the east coast to the Midwest to be able to spend time. So he had heard all of this going on.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I'd always done well in that job. So you're rated on your performance on shooting and tactics. And I was always the top tactics and shooter in there. We used to get offered. My partner and I, we would get offered performance awards. They would come in every quarter, and they'd be like, hey, man, here's a $2500 check for you. Here's $2500 check for you. We're going to split you guys up, and you're going to go mentor, right? You're gonna go mentor the turds over here, and you're gonna go mentor the turds over there. And we were like, keep your money. Which I literally think he kept it. Keep the money.

[Michael Glover]

It got cash somewhere.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. We'd be like, hey, keep your money, and I can keep you. Right. Like, I get to keep my partner. Because in that environment, that's everything for sure. Right. A guy you're gonna fight with. And so we had come up through. We were hired together. We were in the basic class together. We'd gone through the whole process together. So we always just stayed together and. Which was a little unheard of in that organization because you'd have random partners. And we were together the entire time. So I called. They said, in the 20 years that that guy had worked for the organization, never had he put someone's name forward. And they were like, so if he told you to come out here, come out here. And I said, well, my dad's sick. He's in Seattle. I want to spend some time with him. And what came to kind of characterize my entire 13 years there, they said, hey, man, work when you want to work, be home when you want to be home. And I was like, oh, this is different, right?

[Michael Glover]

Did you have any idea the pipeline or pathway you were going to get down? Because. And again, there's. There's so many different.

[Andy Stumpf]

They're kind of notorious too, for like, you show up and you're like, wait, what? Yeah, like, what's the.

[Michael Glover]

Well, it's safe to say there's a variety of. Won't be the best way to describe it. Today's episode is brought to you by Ridge. What is Ridge? You may say, well, if you're on the video platform, they're the makers of this really cool wallet that I have in front of me now. Wallets come in all size and shapes. I think I've tested them all to include, like, the Trifold wallet that I think is actually designed to give you low back problems. The Costanza wallet, if you will. At this point in my life, I am super minimalist. And that's why I like this thing. One, I like what it's made out of, so it protects the cards. I have destroyed cards over the years, as I'm sure most people have. So this for me and I'm. I actually reduce what I carry in my wallet at this point. So I have four cards that I keep on me all the time. And I really like this strap on the back. This is for some cash. If you started a podcast one day, you could be this rich, too. And if you can't tell, I'm joking. These are ones that are folded up. Let's see what's in here. I don't even know. I got. There's. There's some 20s in here, too. I have two 20s and three $1 bills. So if you try really hard, really hard, you can get that kind of podcast money, 43 bucks, it's going to get you a long way. These wallets, and I'm holding them up, this is what it looks like. Empty. They come in 50 colors in style. So if you don't like this one, don't get this one. You can. Sleek black, forged carbon fiber. If that's your type of person, maybe your favorite NFL team or one that just matches your vibe, to use a word that my daughter does. Ridge has you covered. When you get over to their website, you're going to find out they're more than just wallets, too. They have keychains that are on there, they have suitcases and rings. So give it a gander when you're over there. Free shipping, 99 day risk free trial and a lifetime warranty on all products. Now let's talk about something cool they have going on. Right now they're doing their legs. Legendary sweepstakes for the fifth time and it is pretty insane. Two lucky winners will get to choose between a 280,000 dollar Lamborghini Huracan Sterrato. I don't even know if I'm saying that correctly or what. That is a hundred thousand dollar Hennessy Velociraptor or $100,000 in cash. Apparently there are only 1500 of those type of Lamborghinis that ever been created. And the Hennessy Velociraptor has an insane 558 horsepower twin turbo. And of course cash is cash. If I won, which one would I pick? I'm gonna have to go with the Hennessey Velociraptor because I'm a truck guy and I live in Montana. Could you drive a Lamborghini in Montana?

[Andy Stumpf]

Sure.

[Michael Glover]

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[Andy Stumpf]

So what I went directly into was training branches. So it was like, hey, come on in and develop out. So take that skill that you have and then augment and teach within these selection programs and then that working a lot.

[Michael Glover]

Are you talking about people coming through the farm case officer type stuff, trying to basically sharpen those people?

[Andy Stumpf]

No. Next question. Gotcha. No, no, I wasn't on that side. So the Evan groups. Yeah. And those kind of things that those guys were involved in.

[Michael Glover]

Okay, fair enough.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

And so you'd have to imagine those. What do we call them? Jason Bourne's, if you will. Wouldn't it be dope if there was actually a Jason?

[Andy Stumpf]

I know, right? Like never, never. Yeah, I'm like, no, it would be dope.

[Michael Glover]

I would imagine those people have a finishing school, if they will or if you will. I mean they have to learn those skills as well too. But. Yeah, what's the, what's the recognized term that we could use for the, the Evans side stuff? I mean, they're contractors.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And I was a contractor. And that's the interesting thing.

[Michael Glover]

And that's a tax classification, let's be honest.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, and also it's a staff classification from a standpoint of when you have to answer for how many people you have.

[Michael Glover]

Oh yeah, you can say your head count.

[Andy Stumpf]

Is this because, hey man, we have 50. And be like, don't you have a thousand?

[Michael Glover]

No, we're like 50, 10, 99, 50.

[Andy Stumpf]

And they're like, oh, we have 50. So yeah, one of the ways that I like to characterize. Cause when I was leaving the organization, I had to talk with, with the lawyers, right. Office of General Counsel. And they're like, here's what you're able to disclose. And so for me, I'm able to disclose my time, not the content. And what I like to say is I did 13 years of a three year contract.

[Michael Glover]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

And people are like, oh, so pretty good then. And you're like, yeah. So I went there for three and stayed for 13. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

So how'd you know it was time to leave?

[Andy Stumpf]

We both thought it was time to leave. Yeah. We mutually came to looking at each other across the table, them as an organization and me as an individual going, what the fuck have you become?

[Michael Glover]

Let's be honest though too. I don't care how high speed your organization is, if it is in some way shape or form attached to the government, it's not as high speed as people would like to think.

[Andy Stumpf]

So we go full circle back to the foundership piece because that's where that came from. So when I was working there, first of all, when I left local law enforcement to go to the air marshal, I mean, there were 33 air marshals before 9. 11. You couldn't find out. Total. Yeah, total. It was. It. Were they.

[Michael Glover]

Were they cruising around on flights?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, they would. They were badass. They were. I mean, I used to shoot over 80,000 rounds a year. And those dudes would be like, hey, man, pick your game up, right?

[Michael Glover]

Like, were they working singleton?

[Andy Stumpf]

No.

[Michael Glover]

So they still. Yeah, man. That's only. So what is it? That's.

[Andy Stumpf]

They would also do high threat areas. So they would forward deploy to regions of the world that. Where intel would drive them, and then they would go out and work. So when I went there, it was like, ooh, these standards are pretty high, right? And we're talking about shooting standards in time. It's like, okay, these are tight. Like, there's guys here that are good shooters, and they're not making it. We used to have this qual. So when you would qual, basically at the end of all of the selection time, this is how dumb I am. So we're shooting all these quals, passing all this stuff, and out in. Out in New Jersey in our phase two, they had a bus sitting out the outside of the building. And there's not just people from your class that I went through the pipeline with, but, like, a lot of people in this phase. And instructors, one on one, would be standing there, and they have their cart, and they have all their mags with ammo, and you're. They're just running you through it. They're like, hey, for this next iteration, you'll need this many rounds, okay? And I would hear guys shooting, and then I would hear people say, like, hey, Gary. We'll call him Gary. Hey, Gary. Unload. Show clear. Place it on the cart. And they're like, okay. Unload. Show clear placement on the cart. And I'm like, okay, you're. And I'm like, oh, how come I'm not to that part? Right? How well do I have to do to be able to go into the fold? Go behind the curtain and get a.

[Michael Glover]

Seat on the bus.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And I'm like. And so midway through, I look over, and this dude is, like, almost crying, dejected. Unload, show clear. And go. And I'm like, oh, my God. I don't want to hear ever. Unload, show clear. Place it on the cart. I was like, like, oh, shit. Wrong group, right? I don't want to be a part of that group. So it was a aspect of my mentality where I was like, it's going to take everything I have, right? Like, I'm really going to have to excel at this to be able to be in this peer group. Yeah, same when I went out to the agency, I'm like, you know what? If this is the kind of guy and if this is where I end up, this guy leads me out here and this is where I'm going to be. And these are the people that are going through this thing. Like, ooh, this is going to be tough. Like, it's going to take everything you got should be to be able to do this, right? So one of the things that I carried with me there, and I've looked for this for years, I've tried to find this quote. I know he won't be able to find it. Probably has something to do prior to a month ago. Social media. No, I think it came from pj. Carlissimo was a professional basketball coach that had come from the college world. I can't find it attributed to him. So it's not, I guess. But he had said once, or someone like him had said in talking about their performance as a professional basketball coach as opposed to coming from a college, and they were like, how is it different? And I heard this talk once years ago, and he said, this team, the professional team, can have anything they want. They can pay for anybody they want, right? And so his challenge to himself every day is, what have I done today that gets me invited back tomorrow? And I was like, hey, this organization can have anybody they want, you know, the best in the world, right? Because they're here, they're the best in the world. And it's like, ooh, what am I contributing today that gets me invited back tomorrow? So for those years I did that job, when it came to the end of that, it was like, yeah, it's probably time to go. Like, I felt it, they felt it. And what was neat and it's in the foundership piece that I wrote is Wednesday, the last Wednesday of May of 2018, was the last evolution of training that I did. And it was a night evolution. So we're all out there working on this remote site and this Suburban pulls up. Guy hops out, hey, man, you got a second? Sure, what's up? And he was like, Tomorrow, 8 o', clock, you need to be at headquarters. I'm like, hey, man, tomorrow I don't work for you. Right? This is it. Today's the last day. Tomorrow I'm getting on A plane and I'm going home. And he's like, nope, tomorrow, come on in. So I show up, I go to the gate, get my red badge of courage, have to get escorted in, escort required. Required. Who, who are you? Right as you're having the conversation with, with the guy that's seen you on the range the whole time, you're like, hey, Gary. And they're like, hey, Matt, you know, and they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, I don't work here anymore. So I go in there and around a table just like this, dry erase boards behind us in a ready room is leadership. Not just from our component, but from senior leadership in the organization. And the most senior says, what do we need to do to fix this? Looking at training operationally as a whole, right. If we were going to holistically look at this entire thing and how to develop a person and the changes that were coming down from up above of everybody's the same, right? It's the rise of generalism where it's like, oh no, you don't need to be a specialist. Anybody can do this. Right. Gary wants to do luck. Yeah. So that was permeating that organization. And they said, what do we need to do? And what I did, which was basically in what I've written now about foundership is I note it as kind of the first brief was I took that dry erase marker and on the board behind me I wrote down what do we believe? I wrote that, what do we believe? And then I went to a man at the table, Andy, what do we believe? Right. And at that level, aliens are real. Exactly. Right. Like Kennedy's in the other room to a man. Like they're not going to respond. Right. This is super senior leadership. They're not going to have this interaction with you what they believe. So I go around each one of them, none of them really rogers up anything. And then I turn around and I write down what our mission is on that board. This is what we believe we are this. We are the finest this. And I write what our mission is. And I said, do we believe that? And they were like, oh, absolutely. And I was like, okay, if that's what we believe. And then just along that board I just wrote columns of things. Training locations, gear and equipment, personnel standards, everything that has to feed that and what I can. What I would constantly go back to. And first of all, this was a 30 minute discussion. Okay? So three hours were in this room and I'm just writing out like all of these things that make up that component. Right. Which are similar to components you were with and everything else. If you believe this, if this is your mission and you believe it, then why do we have this problem? Right? Because one of the two things has to be real. Either we fix the problem because we believe this or change what we believe. Because guys that are going out there and getting killed, probably we owe it to the bigger picture to not have that happen. Right? So those in service to that mission, pick one. Either change your belief statement or do what needs to be done to make it there. Right? Like to put that foundation in. So, years later. So that was my last chat.

[Michael Glover]

And how'd that meeting end?

[Andy Stumpf]

One of the individuals.

[Michael Glover]

We've had enough of your feedback, sir.

[Andy Stumpf]

No, it's good. One of the individuals from senior leadership said, what do you want? And I was like, you got a.

[Michael Glover]

Piece of paper, like, F22 Raptor delivered to my house and also a gas truck, because I hear they burn with.

[Andy Stumpf]

A user manual, right?

[Michael Glover]

You can look that up.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So I was like, you got a piece of paper and a pencil? He's like, I think we could do that. So he gives me a piece of paper and a pencil, and I go out in the lobby and to the wall of stars, go over to a star that was on there from a guy that I used to work with, and I pencil rub it on that paper. And I was like, thank you. And he said, that's what you ask for. Like, I just offered you, like, hey, man, what do you want? What do you want to fix this? What do you want to be? I was like, hey, man, you had me. You had me the entire time. I couldn't be more invested than I was, and you chose to let that go. So for me, that's fine. I'm gone, right? Like, I'm not. There's. There. You couldn't come up with something to keep me, and so, yeah, so I left.

[Michael Glover]

That's a good cover story for somebody who's still a spy.

[Andy Stumpf]

So deep in it.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. Layers. That's what makes it good.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Nobody can really leave the agency. It's in all the movies.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, that's what I hear.

[Michael Glover]

You're gonna be activated again in 20 years.

[Andy Stumpf]

Interestingly enough, just down the street. I just kept buying every copy of the Catcher in the Rye. No, nothing on that movie. Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Did you even know that's a book?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, I knew it was a book. I haven't read it or seen the movie.

[Michael Glover]

All right.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's not just a drink.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. I had it been a wild ride there, man. I had limited interactions. I told you. I mean, I'll save the comical stories of the interactions I had overseas that I shared at the coffee shop, but, yeah, only at a distance. You know, I never got to see the inner workings. I've talked with Evan a little bit about it, too. Or you're a glover as well. And it seems super high speed, but also plagued with all the same problems that the JSOC commands are.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, then it's. Right, because it's people. Yeah, right.

[Michael Glover]

Well, it's people and it's bureaucracy. They have such an incredible amount of autonomy, but even that autonomy hits the glass wall or ceiling at some point, and then, man, it's like trying to turn an aircraft carrier on a dime. It just doesn't do it quickly.

[Andy Stumpf]

One of the things. There's a. There's a few characteristics that I was exposed to at that organization that I have carried over into the rest of my life and business. One of them is money. So a lot of times in business, money is a problem. Right. You go to work with a vendor for us in machining, so when we go to get pieces cut and we deal with that, you don't, you know, these machinists, when am I going to get paid? So I lead with that. That like, hey, man, here's what this entire project costs. Now what do you want to do? And they're like, yeah, man, you want to move up? You want to start today? And I'm like, yeah, we want to get this today.

[Michael Glover]

So.

[Andy Stumpf]

So one of the things that that organization's good at. Right. Is taking problems off of the table. And then. Right. If you remove all of those problems, then what do you have? You just have an open Runway. Yeah. So for that, with our vendors, we do that. Employees. All of our employees at Aries are prepaid. What? Yeah. First of the month, you're paid for the month. You haven't even worked yet. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

That could be wildly irresponsible.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Some people have different spending habits than others.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So it's one of those things where it's like, hey, I don't want you to sit here and be like, God damn it. I'm just, you know, blah, blah, blah. You know, all of those traditional issues, scheduling issues. Hey, man, you're a grown man. You know what we need to produce, you know, our tempo with what's going on. If you can do that in three days and then come back five days later, then go for it, man. Like, why do I need to have that Insertion of me being like, what are you doing today? You know, like, it's. You're an adult. You know what we need to do. Your success is directly tied to your input.

[Michael Glover]

You.

[Andy Stumpf]

You see this big picture.

[Michael Glover]

It drives innovation and evolution, too.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. In ownership from a standpoint of, like, if it's. It goes back to that team concept that you want to have, where it's like, hey, if I cut this corner, I'm us. And it's like, yeah, I don't want to do that. You're like, okay, yeah, because it means.

[Michael Glover]

Too much to you.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Yeah. So those characteristics of where it's like, look, let's just take these problems off. Let's just. Let's just, you know, in all the vendors that we work with, regardless of where they are globally, like, use Swiss movements and things like that, It's. I'll go there, be like, hey, man, what's up? Like, this is what we need. This is what we're going to do. Here's the resources to be able to capture that. What else do you need? Right? And if you're loading boxes or sweeping the floor, guess who's loading boxes and sweeping the floor. It's got two thumbs and looks like this guy. And it's one of those. Where it's like, this is how we can transcend most of that. Have to do to, like, a want to do. So. Yeah, it's that. Which, again, it all goes back to that foundership piece.

[Michael Glover]

Were you a watch guy at, like, the agency? For clarity. There's some watch nerds out there, like, in the teams. I think it was the. Is the Rolex Submariner. Is that a thing?

[Andy Stumpf]

It is.

[Michael Glover]

Or am I combining Omega? Omega's the Seamaster, I swear. And it's probably the Submariner because it's economically the lowest entry point. But I feel like I passed several times getting these custom, like, we'll get your unit insignia. And in my mind, I'm like, you guys are stupid. $5,000 is more money than anyone's ever made in their life. I'm not spending that now. I look back, and I'm.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's seven years of income in my time.

[Michael Glover]

I look back, I'm like, son of a. That probably would have been pretty cool.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

But when'd you get into watches? Because, I mean, like, you're fully into it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, I'm kind of like, I'm. I was gonna do a bunch of inappropriate references to so many things. Right? Like the. The John Holmes of watches, where I'm like, I'm Legacy in it. So. No, it was. I was a watch nerd as a kid.

[Michael Glover]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So it started to.

[Michael Glover]

Did you like the look of them, or were you fascinated by the intricacy and how they.

[Andy Stumpf]

They worked? I think a little of both.

[Michael Glover]

Because watches are fascinating.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. I'd really like to figure out how it works. No.

[Michael Glover]

So, I mean, ask your sons if they can figure out how the bezel works.

[Andy Stumpf]

I know, right? Speaking of which. Oh, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Dude. Every time I. So I've been flying with this watch. Thank you for the recommendation.

[Andy Stumpf]

Why?

[Michael Glover]

The red is more comfortable. You are 100% right. Who knows? But every time I fly with this watch, people are like, what is that? Like, it's an Aries.

[Andy Stumpf]

So you fly with that watch. And what do you continue to tell me? What have you asked for?

[Michael Glover]

First off, forever, what is the most important thing in special operations? It's not your performance.

[Andy Stumpf]

Looking good.

[Michael Glover]

Yes. If for those that can't do.

[Andy Stumpf]

Which, by the way, for those of you. I don't know what camera I'm supposed to look at, but for those of you that have not been in this environment with a team guy outside of this. This specific shot that you see me on, it's wall to wall mirrors. Looks like a dance studio in here.

[Michael Glover]

Well, you know why seals, like, every.

[Andy Stumpf]

Time he, like, looks in the back and he's like, the smolder, like, it's a.

[Michael Glover]

You know why seals prefer a Silver Ranger?

[Andy Stumpf]

Right?

[Michael Glover]

It has a bigger mirror. I guess you could shoot an Azmuth. But more than anything, it's like.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Sunrises in the west. Oh, just kidding, guys. I meant east. I knew that because I can nav. I've sent people back. I'm like, your top and bottom, they don't match. And you discussed me, and I'm not going on target with you unless you match. So either be really good at your job. And if you can't look as if.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

And so I was like, dude, the red band looks dope. The helicopter's red. This is clashing a little bit.

[Andy Stumpf]

So what have you asked for?

[Michael Glover]

Red bezel. Yes. Oh, red band. Oh, it's gonna be so sexy. Pull that sucker out. Oh.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So that's a lot of red.

[Michael Glover]

Full red.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. They never say, go full red. And we did because you did it. You went full red.

[Michael Glover]

Yes. Oh, that works on the best.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you like that? Read that out loud. What does that say?

[Michael Glover]

It says Andy Stumpf. The Delta Force people don't know this, but I was the founder of Delta Force, even though they were founded before I was born.

[Andy Stumpf]

Not what Deep Dove that. Where the deaf guys are. Like, we're the Delta Force. We're here to say, like, on that actual. But you know what I'm talking about. No, there's a. There's the clip of the hostage rescue at the height of the war. And one of the guys, and it's a navy team, is like, we're Delta Force. You're here to get you out. And I'm like, if that is not me, never lain with another man in love. But I'm willing to if you tell me that's you.

[Michael Glover]

Like, it's not me.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay, dude, I guess you don't want any of that.

[Michael Glover]

Thanks, I appreciate the offer, but I'm just.

[Andy Stumpf]

There you go. It's red.

[Michael Glover]

My theory is just tell the truth, and it's easier to not remember your lies, you know, that's red for you. This is.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's red on red.

[Michael Glover]

This is gonna match with the helicopter. Well, thank you so much for this. This is spectacular.

[Andy Stumpf]

So that goes to kind of like what we do.

[Michael Glover]

That is so badass.

[Andy Stumpf]

At Ares, we make stuff. And in the world right now, a lot of people aren't making things. Hold on. Right? Trying to pull that bezel off, huh? So far, so good. Water.

[Michael Glover]

That's Mike Glover's water. He used to sell it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay.

[Michael Glover]

And I honestly. Look, see, it doesn't. It's much like him. It functions partially.

[Andy Stumpf]

He tried to open it.

[Michael Glover]

The cap barely came open. It says every day it's survival water.

[Andy Stumpf]

Are you not gonna put it.

[Michael Glover]

I am gonna put it up on it. So it says survival water. If I know Mike.

[Andy Stumpf]

Let's just. Look. Can we just go to the red water? I'd rather talk about the abomination of red. It looks like it was surgically removed from you.

[Michael Glover]

If I know Mike, he filled that up with a garden hose in his backyard. I love him to death. He's the best. Actually, isn't that where we first met? At one of his events, we were sitting next to each other. Yeah, dude, that looks amazing.

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, it's red.

[Michael Glover]

I guarantee you the number of questions I get, though, will drastically increase. The guy who type rated me in the helicopter, I sent him one of these watches, and he was like, bro, this thing is amazing.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Yeah, they are, actually. So as a watch nerd, as a kid, one of the things that I would always do, dude, that is.

[Michael Glover]

I'm gonna go fly today after this. We'll get some pictures.

[Andy Stumpf]

There we go. Yeah. That's a lot of red, my friend.

[Michael Glover]

That's okay. I'm comfortable with my red. I'll lean into it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Were you a Red Squadron guy or. No, no, just a. Okay.

[Michael Glover]

But I mean, who wears a gold watch, right? Like, I'm not Liberace. Do you know, for a long time, I thought that was. It said Liberase because I'm an idiot.

[Andy Stumpf]

You're the girl from. What was that movie?

[Michael Glover]

I didn't know that. Somebody in a movie, Striptease or whatever.

[Andy Stumpf]

No, that girl from Showgirls. I was like, it's Versace. Where she's like, I'm wearing a Versace dress. It's Versace. It's Versace. Are you. You thought it was Liberation.

[Michael Glover]

I thought it was Liberace. And then somebody said Liberace. And fortunately, I had not said Liberace before that.

[Andy Stumpf]

There's no.

[Michael Glover]

It's one of. No, it's just one of those moments where it's. It's a. It was a good moment for me. I need these moments of settling back into who I actually am, not who.

[Andy Stumpf]

I made quietly with it, with the learning. Did you be, like, for months? Oh, my word.

[Michael Glover]

For months.

[Andy Stumpf]

And then your mind is just like, here's all the other words I got wrong. And you're just like, oh, man, I hate that. Oh, God. Yeah. So watches for me started when I was 12. So I used to work on a local farm. We're up in a farm community of 7,000 people or so up in the Northwest. And I'd work out in the fields in the summer and get money for school clothes. And so I have this pot of money, and we go to the mall, and I'm like, I'm gonna buy school clothes. And we're walking past this. This store, Frederick and Nelson. And so we're in the store, and we're walking past the jewelry area, and they had a dive watch in a yellow scuba tank. And it was the analog digital, had the little alarm on the side. And I was like, I want that. And my parents are like, nope, like that. And my dad, the fireman, right? Vietnam vet, fireman, construction company guy. Like, this is like, you. You know, our responsibility as parents is to get you a new pair of shoes and a pair of jeans and, you know, some T shirts and underwear. And I was like, no, I want to spend my school clothes money on that watch. And he says, if you buy that watch, like, then you're wearing the same pair of shoes all school year.

[Michael Glover]

No problem.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So here is the Problem, my friend. So I don't know how often you gander at another man's feet, specifically mine, but they. I wear a size 15 shoe.

[Michael Glover]

You're a tall man.

[Andy Stumpf]

So from the time I was 12 when I wore a size 12 to the time I was 15, it was a size a year. So I didn't know that. You don't know how much. So I like hobble my feet like I'm a. And I was like, yeah, I want this watch. So I buy that watch. Rock in middle school with that watch and a breezing jacket and, and next, right, you got to wait all the way through the next summer of working to be able to get a new pair of shoes. And so I had that watch as my one watch for a long time. I still have it, still have the little scuba tank. And I actually don't think I had this conversation with car and I don't think the watch came in the tank. I think the tank was part of their display. And I was such a 12 year old boy with the money in hand and being like, hey mister, I want to buy this watch. You know that I, that I got the tank. So I have the magazine. Yeah, I still have the tank, still have the watch. And that kind of started it. So for me, I always liked watches. It wasn't just the mechanical side because obviously when you're a kid, you're not going to get into the mechanics of them.

[Michael Glover]

Well, and that's the thing. Like I know a plenty of people. Again, I can go back to Rolexes. I have friends that deeply into Rolex. They have no desire to try to figure out how to make a Rolex or the movements. I mean you can appreciate the beauty or the design of a watch. There's something else to try to figure out what's going on behind this face plate and then create something of your own. That to me, like what, how do you even do that?

[Andy Stumpf]

So I wanted. So the diver one, which is what all of these started with, was. So there I am leaving the agency, right? It's that last Wednesday. I give the brief on Thursday, take that rubbing, get on a plane and go home. My wife is like, what are you gonna do tomorrow? I'm like doing anything. Like, what do you mean?

[Michael Glover]

Like, what are you gonna take a mental health day?

[Andy Stumpf]

Can I not do anything? And she said, when you wake up tomorrow morning, if you could do anything you wanted to do, what would it be?

[Michael Glover]

And it's a powerful question.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, in, in, in relationships, in friendships, marriages, all this other stuff, there's always something like there's the unspoken, right? You're going to answer something but you're not gonna, you know, rarely do you dig into that deep marrow layer. And I said I'd make watches. And she's like, then make watches. And because I'm a smartass, right, I say, I think there's two more steps, right? Like I immediately go to the joke and she's like, hey, somebody figured it out before you, so go figure out how to get it done. And I had, I had already at that time been involved in side business things, right? I had done, I'd licensed designs to Surefire that they manufactured. I think to this day I'm the only guy that they've ever made a product that they didn't develop in design. I had done that. There's a 3D target system that I had made. So back in the day when you're hitting shoot houses and you'd get that asshole who would put like a paper target right here and they're like, well you didn't get this guy. And you're like, hey, funny thing about humans, we have depth to us, right? Like we're not fighting the flat, Stanley.

[Michael Glover]

I'm not fighting Slenderman or whatever.

[Andy Stumpf]

Exactly. And so I had, when I was at the air marshals, I developed this 3D human silk screened target so you could have sex, race all of these different pieces, modularity that you could put into that system. So from a business standpoint, I'm like, I understand the broad strokes, right? I don't have an MBA at that point, but I understand that business happens. Commerce. Yeah, business. So, so what I did when she said that was I spent the next couple of weeks literally writing the plan, being like, if I'm going to do this and if I'm going to take, we don't have. I'm not a trust fund baby.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, right.

[Andy Stumpf]

I'm north of Seattle, but I'm not tech money, right? That's not what I come from. So it was like, if we're going to invest in this and if we're going to build this, then it, I owe it to it. If I owe it to the 12 year old boy who wants to make a watch to do this, right? To not just throw it out. And so I sat down and wrote an actual 25 year plan for Aries. This is how we're going to build it and this is what we're going to do and this is where it's going to be and what the diver one is as a watch Is that timer is the watch that I always wanted to have. It was the watch that I always wanted to be issued. So it was the, the gaps in the Seamaster, the sub.

[Michael Glover]

Those are all like dress up watches too. I'm sure they could be used operationally, but I would kind of. I mean, if somebody's wearing a Rolex on target, I'd be like, hey, dude, you're kind of an asshole. You know, I mean, I mean, I'm sure there are people that did, but honestly, it's like, you know, it's like a shit digital watch. I mean, those things were consumables at that point.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

Cause they're getting destroyed. They're going to get caught on something.

[Andy Stumpf]

And that's the point. Right? Like that's what you're doing.

[Michael Glover]

I get that those watches were purpose designed, but you see people wearing them with suits more than they are, you know, cry precision outfits.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah. So for me, it was one of those where it was like the diver one represents the watch that I wanted. And then it was like, okay, how do we execute that? And it was like, well, I just left an organization that's really good about putting people around a table and executing stuff. And it was like, oh, well then that's what you do. You just go find those people. Right. If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

[Michael Glover]

Michael. God. The answer is in what he said.

[Andy Stumpf]

There you go. Man. I wish I knew how to do long division, but I can't find a book about long division. What's it called? Like a long division. Okay, so what was the hardest thing.

[Michael Glover]

To so, you know, the creative, the full product is here. Is there something that sticks out? That was the most difficult obstacle you had to get around or over making.

[Andy Stumpf]

The watch, the actual everything. Because you're going, so we're not a watch. We used to be right in the 40s and 50s. And then in the 60s, America was a watch manufacturing country. We had Elgin, we had Waltham, we had all of these in the Midwest and Northeast. We had all of these companies that had legacy come from a railroad watch timer into wristwatches with, you know, World War II and the soldier being able to have that. So then we lost it with the quartz crisis. And was that literally just a shortage of quartz? No, what happened was they invented the digital watch and so it killed mechanical watches. And so that's where the Swatch group in Europe, in Switzerland, the Swatch group was all of these other companies that used to do each component. So somebody made cases oh, interesting. Somebody made dials. Somebody made movements. They just had pistols and hands. They were like, hey, hey. This advent of the quartz watch out of Japan is killing mechanical watches. And so they all formed together. Now, what didn't go into that was Rolex. Rolex was like, we're gonna be standalone. So for me, in starting Aries and in having the Diver one, the. I drew that watch. The Diver one exists because I used to draw it in journals. You go on trips and there's guys. Grundle was. He was a guy that came from you and worked for us. He was an original, excellent call sign. Yeah, He. He drew comics.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And so he and Chris McQuarrie, that does the film stuff, they had done a comic book together. So he did graphic novels. Other guys would write books. Right. Other guys would do other stuff. And I would always be like, hey, it's watches for me. So I knew the Diver one years before. It was like, here's the blueprints to go machine the Diver one. And then this is what the dial will look like, and this is what the loom is going to be. So for me, it was. I don't want to be American in name only as an American watch company and get out of a catalog. And that's what happens.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Is they'll be like, okay, you mentioned the Seamaster case. You can go to a catalog and be like, I just want the case.

[Michael Glover]

Oh, really?

[Andy Stumpf]

And it's a seamaster case. And so from the watch world, when you look at that and you're like, oh, that's a Seamaster case. And it's like, ah, it's somebody else's interpretation. But they didn't even design their own chassis.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And so for me, it's like, no. Every chamfer, every angle, every part of that case sits the way it sits because I drew it that way. Same with the font. So apparently you can just go into, like, Microsoft Word and type numbers in their fonts. I'm not that smart. You know what I did? I sat down and I'm like, this is a three. And I drew it out that way.

[Michael Glover]

So you hand drew.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And then we had to create and translate what that is, because I didn't want just a three. I'm like, this is the way that three is. Right?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And then you just go find somebody to execute that. And we're in the Pacific Northwest, Right. Boeing, all of that infrastructure built within aerospace. And it's like, well, if a machinist is a machinist, you can just go Into a machine shop and be like, here's my blueprints.

[Michael Glover]

Make this in theory, right?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, theory. Yeah. There's. There's a few more things in there.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And so we've gone over the years. We're seven years in now, and we've gone through a couple of different shops and a couple of different places to be able to get that done. But every part of that watch, we're working to onboard more and more and more. Our dials, our loom, are Swiss because the Swiss make the best loom. Right. It's the same loom that's in those other Swiss brands. I'm not arrogant or ignorant enough to think I'm going to go invent loom. Right. Let's go sit out here in the garage and see what. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

So it'd be a recipe to stall your growth or advancement for sure.

[Andy Stumpf]

So it's one of those where it's like, you're going to build a carbine. Like, well, I'm not going to go invent a new bullet to do this piece. Right. You build that.

[Michael Glover]

Some businesses would disagree with you, you know? I know. Let's build a.48. 6, 5. 72 Creedmoor. Awesome. Yeah, let's do that.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. That reticle, I'd have to write all the way up my arm. Right. You'll be like, what you're holding.

[Michael Glover]

I can appreciate people nerding out, but sometimes it's like, guys.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

This other one right over here off the shelf is really knocking them down.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, and the other side of that, too, is. So when I started, I was. It was the. This question. And this question alone was the first piece. Do you want to build a watch, or do you want to build a watch company? Because they are fundamentally different things.

[Michael Glover]

Yes, they are.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it was like, I want to build a watch company. So now it's like, ooh, okay, so here's your road in front of you. You're gonna have to do all of the design. You're gonna. You know, you can build that watch company using a catalog case. But is that yours or is that just somebody else? Yeah, you're just throwing your name on it, Being like, here's what we got. And I was like, no, I want to do it from the ground up. I want to have it be this. So you gotta find steel and cut that steel. So the diver is actually cut out of a stamped fine blank. So in order to make that geometry work, it's stamped like those turrets used to be stamped on the tanks. Right. Like it Was a. And then we machine it from there. The field watch that I have is cut from a solid bar. So those angles and the slope angle, the lug angle, all of that nuance has to be done differently. Right. Because it's manufactured differently. So in building that out, it causes you to go to school to figure.

[Michael Glover]

Out how many steps from flash to bang to get a full, completely dialed in, ready to go. Diver one on your hands.

[Andy Stumpf]

So there's not a specific number because it comes down to like this. So on a field, when it starts as a bar. Yeah, you have the case, you have the case back, you have the movement. Once everything is in play, we're going to be able to machine and cut that watch in the span of like a week.

[Michael Glover]

Oh, wow.

[Andy Stumpf]

But that's not the way it works.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, of course not.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right, so because you're doing it modularly, you're like, now is the time where we're cutting steel, so all of that steel will be cut. And you take all that steel and you finish it. Hey, we need to take it back. Are we going to bead blast it it? Are we going to cerakote it? You know, are we going to send it off for pvd? And then the same with the case backs, the same with the dials, right? Movements, we don't make movements, we use Swiss movements. So in our quartz watches we use the. It's a 10 year lithium ion, which when I was specking out what I want, what I hated about watches growing up is like, if you had more than one, you go to get your watch, you're like, oh, the battery's dead. Right? Just like optics now on weapon systems. You're like, hey, how is a 10,000 hour battery dead every month? Right? You'd be like, oh no, that's gonna last you a long time. And you're like, doesn't. Okay. No, it's not. So for me it was like, okay, well that's a parameter then, Right. That's part of that performance envelope that we get to define. So it was like, okay, let's use a 10 year. Tenure is pretty good because what are you gonna get out of a 10 year? 5? 7.

[Michael Glover]

5 to 7 would be reasonable.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay, yeah, that's.

[Michael Glover]

That's a long time for most people for a watch. Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

A lot better in a year. Right. Which is what you're going to get out of a two or a three year, you know, months. So yeah, every aspect of it was like, how do we bring this in house and execute it? How do we get it to what it needs to be. How do you execute the vision of what you're drawing, not what someone else is putting there and being like, here you go. Here's your packaged item.

[Michael Glover]

So is it cool having your kids work for you?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, 100%. Having. Being gone for as long as I was gone and not being there.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Now every day, to be able to go in there and be like, hey, what are we doing today? That's the best part of it. I mean, and we make watches. I'm like, you know, and some of that is like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I'd rather hang out with you guys, and we'll see if we get some watches done.

[Michael Glover]

It's also cool if they want to hang out with you too.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So a big part of it for me that I'm. I'm. I need to. I constantly kind of bring back as a touch point is even under I'm right. You know, this. We're a business in 2025, so. Yay. Right? Like, all of the things that are involved in what's going on right now with.

[Michael Glover]

It's been a little bit of an interesting year.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So that.

[Michael Glover]

Ooh. Are the Swiss being tariffed right now?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, 39% went into effect on the 7th. So I just put out a newsletter blog about. So what that means to me, I approach that a little bit differently because I kind of have this. I don't want to say it's mad. I don't want to be mad about it, but I do find myself in this back and forth with everyone that says, buy American and support America. And then you're like, hey, man, we're an American company that like. Like that. Yeah. Our ability to make that abomination on.

[Michael Glover]

Your wrist is first off, I think this should be the only thing you sell. There's one colorway and one colorway only you can, like, get.

[Andy Stumpf]

And we'll call it Gold Squatter. It's red.

[Michael Glover]

Put, like, little boxes on the bottom where it's green or black, but whatever you click, it always comes back to red.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it confirms it's green, but when it arrives, it's red. You're like, hey, yeah, it's red.

[Michael Glover]

Put some really small. Really small print on the website on a font that's almost the same color as the background. So really hard to read. And that way you cover your ass.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, perfect. So one of the things that I love about what we're able to do is just that.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Like, we went to our first trade show last Year we went to Toronto, went to this big watch show, 100 brands or so, everybody around there. And I'm like, yeah, let's go to this thing, right? Because here's me in that idea of like, we belong here. We should be here. There's people making watches. There's companies showing their watches. We should go there and show this. So I go there and another brand, individual from another brand who is amazing. The brand is good, the person is amazing. And just apparently something about the way where I was trying to feel like I should be in this table, right? It's going to take everything I have, like I talked about before, going into the air marshals and being able to maintain that standard, going into the agency and being like, man, it's going to take everything I have to be able to stay at the table with these individuals. So this person pulls me aside, standing in front of me like this, this over their shoulder, everybody at the trade show there at their booths, and they're like, hey, do you see all those people behind me? I was like, yeah, yeah. And they're like, hey, every one of these companies is here pretending to be you.

[Michael Glover]

Damn.

[Andy Stumpf]

Like, you're the only company that's cutting steel and building and doing these things in house, as a family, as a business is making this stuff like you're doing it. We are all cataloging, we're all doing these other things and just branding them in a way. And so what they were trying to get me to recognize was like, hey, man, not only do you belong here, like, we are all looking at you like, that's the guy. Which, interestingly enough, fast forward to now, this field case. And this isn't my choice. A foreign watch group is like, that's the new mil spec standard.

[Michael Glover]

Really?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So talk about being a little nerd watch kid and then looking at, like, field watches from World War II. And so when I sat down to kind of design a field watch, so we started with the diver one, which I drew out and I like. And then it was like, I want to do a field watch. And it's like, but if I was going to do a field watch, it look a little bit different. It would have a little bit different of a curve and aesthetic to it. So. So it took a while to be able to execute it that I wanted it to be. And so having introduced that over the past year and a half, and then to have them be like, hey, man, we're a foreign watch group that has been around and was making field watches in World War II. That's our new mil spec standard. Just so you know. That's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. I was like, wait, what? Like, huh? They're like, yeah, you're it. Like, you are the standard. And it was like, oh, okay. So in what we make and what we're able to do, it's being able to execute those small things. So the bigs that you and I have already talked about, they couldn't get you a red watch. Yeah, they can't do that. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

There's no way.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And the ones in name only that are like, hey, we're an American watch company. And they're like, oh, well, can you wait six or nine months? Because we have to order it, and then it has to be made overseas, and then we have to come in, and then we got to repackage it.

[Michael Glover]

To make it be made in the usa.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So for us, I mean, when did we talk about that last? A week ago. And I was like, it wasn't that long ago. Yeah. And I'm like, hey, man. I walk back in the office and I say to the boys, it's like, hey, man, Andy wants a red watch.

[Michael Glover]

They both were like, that's super not gay. It sounds amazing.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I'm like, do we color match it to his helicopter?

[Michael Glover]

I don't even pant on it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Do we color match it to the band? Do we? Yeah. And at that point, it was like, you know what?

[Michael Glover]

Amazing. Yeah, you're gonna make a diver two.

[Andy Stumpf]

So the diver one's the diver one. What. What I've been able to develop within that chassis is kind of unique. And what I mean by that is we make watches that are Swiss Quartz or Swiss auto. And the auto movements that we use are made by eta. They're owned by Swatch. So they're. They go in Breitlings, they go in omegas. They're the same movement. So it's that same engine. Right. It's that power plant. So the issue with that is we don't have the resources as a small company that we are to have different pieces. Right. We can't manufacture a ton of quartz cases and be like, oh, throw those in the quartz section and we'll get to them.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

When we need them. So what I did from a design standpoint is I built one chassis that can take either engine, which is pretty unique.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So the same foreign group that was like, hey, this is our field standard. And one of those individuals has been in the watch business for almost 50 years and was raised in it generationally, their legacy they were like, hey, man, I don't know how you came up with that, but I've been in this thing. Our family's been in this thing for 100 years and nobody ever thought of that. And I was like, well, and I'm driving down the road and they're in the car. And I was like, well, I came up to it because how can I have a carbine that has three different uppers based on the result? I want to get down range.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah. Same lower.

[Andy Stumpf]

But I can't have a watch case that can take a different engine. Yeah. So there's a little insight into how my brain works. And I'm like, well, then what happens is we just have. So we have a thing. So when you look down at your watch, that dial that you see has a wall that comes up from it. It's a stadium circle around it.

[Michael Glover]

Yep.

[Andy Stumpf]

And that's called the Re Hot. So Rolex engraves that now with little numbers and little characters.

[Michael Glover]

They do that as more of an anti. What's the word I'm looking for? The fake products.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So. So they do it and they'll also put a serial number piece in there to where they. It's only known to them. So you don't see that they're making millions of them. Right. When they used to just number them sequentially.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Or you'd have a series and it would go through there. They would get people being like, wait a minute, this is rare, yet I'm number 2 million this year. So what I did was I counterfeits this. Yeah. Okay.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I designed the interior of that case to be able to take a modular ring that we can space that. So now we're able to be like, what engine are we going to put in it? We're like, oh, we're going to put an auto in it and be like, okay, we don't need that Re Hot ring. Or we're going to put a quartz in it. We need this ring. And we can vary that based on the capacity for what we're going to put in it. So it gives us the ability to have one thing right. That lower that based on the result I want downrange. We can be modular with it. So it's. It's kind of. You're forced to be able to work with what you have. And so for me it was like, okay, well then let's make this to where we're never stopped in what we're able to do. And so from that, just the ability to be able to Say like, okay, let's make them a diver. Let's make it red, right? So we cut the steel, you spray it, you take care of that assembly side and then be able to put it out. So there's brands like you talked about being at the group, and they'll be like, hey, man, we want to do a run of watches. And it's like, however many hundreds you gotta buy.

[Michael Glover]

Or there was minimums. And honestly, I think a lot of it was engraving on the back of the case more than anything. There was not a whole lot of.

[Andy Stumpf]

You can't. Well, yeah, yeah. In. In. The difficult part is the other side, Right. Like, being able to do that. So we do batches of one. We get guys that are like, hey, man, I'm doing this and I want to do this. What's my minimum? And I'm like, no, if you want it for you, we'll build it for you. Because we make them.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So for us, it's great. There's. There's groups that I was with at the organization that will be like, hey, we want a dozen. There's groups that you were with where we'll do, you know, half a dozen to 30. Or there's guys that call in and are like, hey, man, I'm part of a small team or I'm part of a business and we want to do it. And it's like, yeah, man, we can knock it out. And people are like, wait a minute. It really? Like, I called somebody else and they were like, oh, it's this much time delay. And it's this much. And I'm like, well, yeah, that's the.

[Michael Glover]

Difference in the business model.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, they're not making them. Yeah, we're making them now. You're not going to get it tomorrow, right? Because we got to cut it and make it and build it.

[Michael Glover]

Nor would you get that other brands, you know, you're going to get it from Aries quicker than you can get it from the other. Yeah, over the shelf.

[Andy Stumpf]

So that's super cool because we get a lot of stuff where people will be like, in. And that's also neat working, having the sun there, because they'll walk in and they'll be like, hey, man, I think, you know, this guy, he just called in and it's one of those things where it'll be like, he called in. And I felt like I was halfway through a conversation that had been going on, and they're like, hey, man, it's so and so. I want your dad to make a watch and it's this and this. And I'm like, do you recognize this name? And I'll be like, oh, yeah, yeah. It was. It was. It's. It's fun. It is. It's a lot of fun.

[Michael Glover]

What's the biggest challenge you guys are facing right now? And there is, like, you mentioned a little bit. There is some economic uncertainty, for sure. I think a lot of people are just sitting on the sidelines a bit like Glacier national park was putting out 20 to 30% decrease. Kalispell is a very heavy tourism town. 20 to 30% kind of decrease, People are saying. And that's going to. I think that that's just an unwillingness for people to kind of just. Just go for stuff. I bet. I'm sure you're probably feeling it as well too. People don't know what to do.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Our biggest issue now is people don't know who we are. Right. And not only do people not know who we are, they don't know what we provide. And I think I've told you this before. I use the example of we are the most well known and used operational watch you'll never see, right?

[Michael Glover]

Because it's the text the guy's wearing them are not social media Jedis, nor are they allowed to post that stuff anyway.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it will get. I'll get texts on my phone where I'm like, dude, I don't want to go to prison. Stop sending me shit, right? Like, because that looks a lot like your boot on a guy's neck with a muzzle. And you're like, check out my watch, bro. And I'm like, can you not? Can you not? Crank caller. Who is this? Yeah, so it's just trying to get people to understand, hey, this is who we are. This is what we make. We actually make it. This is what we do. And it's. It's been really good because one of the things that we enjoy at Aries a lot is most people that wear an Aries or most people that have bought an Aries buy multiple because they're like, oh, wow, this is like, you guys are making this? Yeah, they're guaranteed for life. We. You can come in the shop and build that. It's one of those. Where my old boss from the organization, when he retired, he came out, he's like, I want to build a watch. And I'm like, okay. Like, we're like, build a bear for dudes. Where it's like, hey, show up. And you can, like, you can shake the hand of the guy that cut that and it's not just the, the ad right at the mall. It's like, well, I'll put you on a list and call you back. And just like, no, man, like we're making things. Like, come on in and make stuff.

[Michael Glover]

Watch. People are like that too. I mean, I know people half a dozen to a dozen Rolex, they just. That brand affinity and loyalty that they have, it's pretty awesome.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, the thing that, the thing that gets me jaded at times is where you'll see those guys and not guys that like. I know personally, but you'll see those things where it'll be like, oh, this watch, that's $110,000 and it's a this. And they bought it and they're like, yeah, yeah, I got this. And you're like, man, I'll sell you one for that. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

I was having an interesting conversation with a buddy of mine. He likes Rolexes and there's two reasons why he likes them. One, the aesthetic, but two, the value. He literally said, listen, if I'm ever in trouble anywhere in the world, yeah, it's a commodity. This is a commodity that, worst case scenario, I could take it off my wrist and hand it to somebody. Best case, I could sell it for cash and hopefully get back home. And I was like, damn. I actually had never thought about it like that.

[Andy Stumpf]

I went the other way and was like, you know what, the teeth on that bezel, you could just saw through that dude's neck and then take his.

[Michael Glover]

Car and be like, there's that too.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it'll look like yours. It'll be red like that.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, I mean, that's why I just started red. That way you would never know.

[Andy Stumpf]

They can't tell. So when you're going through a checkpoint, they're like, no, I was red to begin with.

[Michael Glover]

Who makes your watch?

[Andy Stumpf]

The.

[Michael Glover]

I guarantee you it'll be. I'll just start sending you the comment section from the video. Like every video I put up a flying helicopter, people ask, ask.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, we get. I mean, it's one of the things that I enjoy that, that I can look at what I made and be happy about is when you look across the room and you see a diver one, you know what it is? You're like, hey, man, that's a diver one. You're like, hey, you know, there's a, there's a story that a guy told me where they were sitting. They were out for shot show and he's with his wife and they're at a restaurant and it's Crowded and packed. And there's a small table next to him and a couple comes over and sits down. And he looks over there and he's like, how do you know Matt? And the guy is like, oh, I worked with him at the organization. And then he looks down and he sees, yeah, my buddies wearing one of the watches. And he's like, how do you know him? And he was like, oh, he was my primary instructor when I went through the pipe. And he said, for two hours him and his wife and that guy are just sitting there having to be like, hey, there you go. And so it's kind of cool to be able to have that piece where you're like, not peace, like at peace, but like a piece where you're like, this is a thing that I. That is a catalyst for these other aspects of how it works. Because being a watch is just a part of it, right? You're a helo guy, you're climber, your wingsuit guy, swimming or father your business, you know, in a watch is just an aspect of that.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it's kind of like we get to be there for that. So that's what's really cool is where it's like, hey, as we continue to push this out and develop these. And so from a dive standpoint on the diver, I built that case to be able to have not only a quartz movement, but an auto movement and then a GMT movement movement, really. So in that same piece, you can have that same with a field. This is a GMT field. So it can be a quartz, it can be a standard auto, or it can be a gmt and then the chronograph. So I've been working on a chronograph for a couple of years because I want it to be a certain way. Yeah, most chronos are like a three button chrono and it's all kind of the same. And I was like, no, I think if we can make that fit with when within what we already do, then you get this additional layer of. I had an instructor once, he was one of the core air marshal instructors, who said, be wary of someone one question deep. And it's like the depth of knowledge is what separates professionals right.

[Michael Glover]

From amateurs.

[Andy Stumpf]

And so for me, looking at it from a depth of knowledge standpoint and being able to have that one chassis, like, how far back did you have to design that piece to be able to accept something so far downstream to be able to work? And it was like, yeah, man, we're not, we're not. One question Deep. Right. Like it's one of those where it's like this design, that piece. It's not. There was one of the recent writings that I just put out was like the lie of iteration where companies are having to iterate a new thing to get you to buy a new thing.

[Michael Glover]

It's almost industry standard across all industries. It is.

[Andy Stumpf]

But if you look at Rolex like the Submariner that your grandfather could have and the sub that your grandson can have are going to be similar.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right.

[Michael Glover]

They're one of the 911 exceptions.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Which is. And so for me, why would I ever change the diver one? That thing's a thousand meter rated watch. Right. And that's.

[Michael Glover]

I don't ever want to dive that. No.

[Andy Stumpf]

You know, and what I always said was like, no, it's not for you. Yeah. Right. It's for your kid when they do a recovery and they're like, hey, your dad's watch is still working.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right. Like it's a.

[Michael Glover]

He's gone. But here's the bone that it was still attached to. We could find it because it was red. Everything else down there had no color.

[Andy Stumpf]

Couldn't see it. So for me, it's one of those that it's like, hey, why? If you have made something that is true and if you've made something that performs and if you've made something that kind of works in all these other environments, then you don't need the live iteration of like, hey, what are you gonna try to sell them this year? Like, I'm not gonna try to sell them anything. That's what we make. Right?

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

If the, if the Rolex submariner is the 911 of watches. Right. Which I believe it is. Right. It's. You can look at a 911 and see that same design language throughout the entire thing, then that's the 1911 of watches. Why would you change that? There are operational groups right now. They're like, yeah, man, this is 1911. Why would I ever fucking do anything different? Like, you wouldn't. I'm just going to tune it a little better.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Ryan. I might make it a different color.

[Michael Glover]

Of course. Make it red only if you want to be seen.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And so for me, it's one of those where it's like, yeah, it's the, it's that works in what I see a lot now. And we can see it in people, we can see it in business. We can see it is people won't say what they believe in and they won't stay with what their actions are. They're like, you know what? I'm going to change based on what's happening. And I'm like, I'm not going to do that. We've made something that works and it performs. The performance envelope of what we're able to do exceeds what's necessary. And then it's like, then why wouldn't that be the standard? Why wouldn't you keep that? It's like, well, you might lose some. Okay, totally. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

They're not really your core customer anyway.

[Andy Stumpf]

Don't come. Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Glover]

So where can people find them?

[Andy Stumpf]

Aries watches dot com.

[Michael Glover]

Is there anywhere else? Where can I find like a good Chinese knockoff like Amazon or Alibaba?

[Andy Stumpf]

You're talking about people or a watch?

[Michael Glover]

The watch.

[Andy Stumpf]

Just human trafficking. Oh, yeah, Gosh, I don't know. I wasn't involved in that type of human trafficking. Be like, is there anyone in this trunk? I need to know Is there anyone in this trunk before we get to the. Yeah. So we'[e-mail].

[Michael Glover]

I think it's so cool that it's homegrown. It's your family business. I just think that's awesome, man. It's so rare.

[Andy Stumpf]

We're doing a build out right now. I just put it out. It's our Liberty project where it's 2,500 watches, which is about what we make in a year is 2500 pieces. 2500. And it's. We're looking at building those now. You can get a diver, you can get a field. And it is our capital project to actually be like, this is what we are like. If you believe in American manufacturing. Going to talk about it, then buy this. Right. Because it's like cut here, made here. The field watch goes for the infrastructure for our machinery. So right now we talk about in house, but our machinist isn't in house. Right. It's just down the street and it's like, nope, let's bring that in. Let's get underwater.

[Michael Glover]

Integrate.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Which is interesting. If you look at Rolex again, for the first hundred years, they didn't make their own movements. You not know that.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah, no, I wouldn't have guessed that.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So not until probably about 20 years ago, they spent just over a billion dollars to buy the movement company that was making their movement.

[Michael Glover]

Oh, just do that.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, I know. That's what I did. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

What's. I mean, the template's out there.

[Andy Stumpf]

You write it on the check. Yeah. Right. You just. Here's my 1.

[Michael Glover]

Try to get it all into the building before they try to cash it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, that was the other part. Yeah.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, clearly the roadmap has been established on what you need to do.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think you give it to them at 4 o' clock on a Friday. Right. That's what I'm gonna do. So it was like, yeah, the fields is gonna be the machinery and then the divers is gonna be the infrastructure. So it's like for every.

[Michael Glover]

And you try to get all of them sold before you build them. Them, or is this going to be.

[Andy Stumpf]

No, we're doing them. Okay. We're doing them. As you buy, they're going out. And then it's. It's like you buy that diver for the infrastructure and it's like that name on that brick in that ground. It's like, come over here and be like, yeah, that's what you made.

[Michael Glover]

Hell yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right? Like, you built that. Like, we.

[Michael Glover]

You should put the names up in there somewhere.

[Andy Stumpf]

We are. That's what I'm saying.

[Michael Glover]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Like it's the. You're in the foundation or you're on the machine. Hell yeah.

[Michael Glover]

That's awesome.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's like, come on in and engrave your watch on a machine that has your name on it. And it's 2500. At 2500, which realistically, that diver or that field watch with that movement that's in the Breitlings, in the Omegas and in that piece, that's a easy day, man. Where do we go? So, yeah, it's cool. It's gonna be a lot of fun.

[Michael Glover]

Hell, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. They won't be red, but if you want it to be red, they will be.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, why limit people like that?

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't know.

[Michael Glover]

I feel like the amount of red orders, I mean, good taste.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay.

[Michael Glover]

I feel like the amount of red orders that you are going to get is going to exponentially go up because it's currently at zero. So the first one is.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yes, if it was one, it would exponentially be higher.

[Michael Glover]

That's what I'm saying. It's really going to trail off in the subsequent years.

[Andy Stumpf]

You should take my MBA math class.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, the first year, it's people, oh, look at our first year growth. I'm like, listen, buddy, I'm not a business expert. Yeah, you certainly did double it. If not 5 billion percent higher. Hit me back at your 5, buddy.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michael Glover]

For sure. Well, cool, man. Let's. Well, yeah, that's good. It gives you a chance to get back on the road if you want to.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, let's go put that red thing in the helicopter and see what's up.

[Michael Glover]

We can go out to the heli if you want. We can go check it out.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, why not?

[Michael Glover]

Cool.

[Andy Stumpf]

Thanks for having me, man. I know what it takes to do this and I appreciate it.

[Michael Glover]

I mean, mostly Michael's doing stuff over there. You notice how he doesn't even keep the microphone by his face?

[Andy Stumpf]

I see he's over there watching the movies though. That's pretty cool.

[Michael Glover]

He's over there. The problem is he's in my Google account, so if anybody's going to prison, it's likely gonna be me. You're looking at feet finder one day out of pure research, obviously. How many categories, Michael, do you think there were?

[Andy Stumpf]

Oh, at least like 50.

[Michael Glover]

One of the categories was stinky feet. These were pictures only on the line.

[Andy Stumpf]

Videos or just still pics asking for a friend.

[Michael Glover]

We went no farther than the landing page, which honestly is probably too far.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, like whitehouse.com. did you ever get those? So we used to get those working at the government where in an election year they would be like, if you go to WhiteHouse.com you're getting fired. You're like, WhiteHouse.com is a porn site.

[Michael Glover]

Totally.

[Andy Stumpf]

And if you go to that like we're telling you a year out before the election, you can't use these excuse. Well, I'm just trying to understand how civics works. Like no, though it was awesome.

[Michael Glover]

Stinky feet. We didn't click on that, but I just imagine that it's somebody stomping their foot on dog or something. I just. It's not a scratch and sniff site. You know, how do you. There was often.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you talk to like a mental health professional? Like is that. That's where you go? Well, not like maybe somebody in their Tory Burches that just happened to be walking. Wait, wait. Sorry.

[Michael Glover]

I don't know. I'm the most sane person I know.

[Andy Stumpf]

Oh, wow. Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.