A (2:18)

Do you think it all comes back to money?

B (2:21)

100%.

A (2:22)

Today's episode is Brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. My hair is brought to you by my pillow earlier this morning. Styled by Vidal Sassoon, if you will. Let's head over to Black Rifle Coffee's website. It's my favorite thing to do. Let's see what they have. Boom, right? Navy 250 year anniversary bag. Let's go back to that. Because this bag, this is part of their ecs. This picture. Actually, you know what? That's different than the one that I got. Or perhaps that's on the back. I am loving the way these ECS bags are designed, man. They're playing with some metallic colors. And all I'll say is this. If you do get this bag, come over here to this little F18 and just maybe take a look at where they would normally paint the call sign for the pilot. So you could get that. The 250 year anniversary of the Navy and they got a fall product drop. I think we went through that last time. Is there anything else on this? Nope. So it's just those two things. Some limited time roasting here of pumpkin spice. It is of the season, I've been told. Maple pecan roast, the pumpkin spice K cups for those of you who like a Keurig and the maple pecan K cup. So the two roasts here with the Keurig options, like I said, we have the ECS or exclusive coffee subscription. A bunch of new fall releases. Dictator, Geisha. Oh, my goodness is back. If you like geisha coffee, you need to get some of this right now. I actually didn't know that this was back. I'm gonna buy some of this. This stuff is good, very limited quantities. And here you can sign up for a coffee subscription. So you can get what you want delivered where you want, when you want. Shirts, kind of the same thing. Sticker and the ECS like I already talked about. If you're interested in that stuff, where do you go? You head over to blackrifflecoffee.com they're gonna have all your coffee needs. Start thinking about Christmas. I know it's that close. Things to make coff. Drink coffee out of apparel. You name it, start thinking it. Stocking stuffers, black riflecoffee.com Back to the show, unfortunately. When do you think that started? Do you think that started? I mean, I don't know what they were using for currency. Probably not cavemen because I didn't have. But like the Roman Empire, right? Like gold or like coins. As soon as that started. And there were things that were considered. Oh, this shiny thing is worth more than this less shiny thing. Was that the end of it? Essentially. And then people started acting in the interest of those shiny things and what you could buy with that or the position or the influence, because, I mean, nowhere near the experience you have. I hosted a guy not too long ago named Chris, and he started in finance and then he's working on basically private health care to detach people from this ridiculous health care system that he unpacked everything from. Like, the way that the pharmacy sits and the kickbacks. And I'm like, what?

B (5:11)

Yeah.

A (5:12)

Breaking down the Affordable Care act, how there was many more providers and now there's like three or four and they're offshored and they're corporate entities. So they end like, I'm sorry, what?

B (5:22)

Yeah.

A (5:22)

And nobody knows about this stuff, but you go, okay, why does that happen? It's not for better health care for people. It's not to treat people any better from a healthcare practitioner perspective. They're just trying. Their number is more. Yeah, that's it.

B (5:37)

Well, and that's the problem. And when I testified in front of the Senate, after Tulsi told me to get political, I went and testified in front of the U.S. senate. And it was like a nuanced approach to healthcare or something. The chronic disease of Americans. And I sat there and I told senators, you're gonna hear time and time again, the healthcare system's broken. The healthcare system's broken. I wanna be abundantly clear. It's not broken, it's rigged. And we're the ones fitting the bills.

A (6:07)

That's a different delineation for sure.

B (6:08)

And it's more than money. We're fitting the bills. In human life and human capital, we are viewed as a commodity to be traded by industry. And we can go all the way back. The other thing I said in that, that I was wrong on, is all of our institutions have been corporately captured. And the reason I say I'm wrong is now, a year later, jump forward. And having gotten behind the scenes of government, what I've learned is all of these entities were born in captivity. They were never free to begin with. If we go all the way back to the foundation of the FDA, it was founded. The predecessor was founded in 1906. Okay. They created this as a. As to fight for the American people and help protect us against basically tainted meat. That was the main gist. Meat packing factories weren't following any sort of code of conduct or manufacturing good practices in 06.

A (6:58)

1906. Yeah, that checks.

B (7:00)

And they're selling, like, tainted Soiled meat to people instantly.

A (7:04)

I can see that.

B (7:05)

Guess who comes out of the woodworks. Big Pharma and Coca Cola. Coca Cola lobbies to make sure they put somebody in place over the act, over this bill that was the predecessor to the FDA to make sure that they didn't have to remove cocaine from coke, that they didn't have to remove opioids from toothpaste. We were literally systematically getting Americans addicted to. To toothpaste, pain creams, tonics that were supposed to help with sleep. Well, those tonics were really opioids and sleep aids that were addictive, and they didn't want to take that out. So it took years of, even at that time of American outrage to mandate a label change, which is what we're still living today. I literally testified at the state level for a month against Big Chemical, Big Ag, Big Pharma on label changes in the state of Texas. And I'm like, are we still living this? This is what was going on in 1906 when they were fighting, disclosing that they had cocaine in coke.

A (8:07)

Did we miss out that we didn't live in the cocaine, Coca Cola era?

B (8:11)

We might.

A (8:12)

And the opium and toothpaste. We might have better dental care.

B (8:16)

Yeah.

A (8:17)

Or people brushing. I mean, I'm not advocating for this. I'm just thinking outside of the box. Yeah. What was it? They were.

B (8:22)

People were probably brushing their teeth three, four times.

A (8:24)

Oh, I'm just saying great breath just to get. Yeah, just. Or the. What was the show? Tombstone, you know, with Wyatt Earp. And it's, again, not a historical movie, but his wife at the time was addicted to, like, I need some more laudanum. You know, I just have a cough, and it's just straight opium in that bottle. People are just juiced to the gills. Here's the question I bounce up against. Do you think it's fixable if these industries and entities and departments were born in captivity, is it possible to detach them from the system we have in place?

B (8:58)

I think that's the challenge we're facing now, and I think that's the challenge you're seeing with rfk. Look at the overwhelmed. I mean, I don't know if you've been watching what's been going on.

A (9:06)

They're coming after him. They basically. If he's sitting right here. They pulled up every battleship they can find, and we're just like.

B (9:12)

And what's crazy even that. Like, let's look at the CDC. The CDC was founded during World War II. It was founded to help shut down the spread of malaria. The first big decision the CDC made was to partner with Monsanto and douse everything we know in ddt, which is now a known carcinogen.

A (9:32)

Historically not. There's. I remember seeing black and white videos of that. People standing in the streets and the clouds just being.

B (9:37)

We chased those fucking trucks in the 80s. I grew up in the suburbs and we chased mosquito trucks on our bikes. We like rode in the mist. If anyone's getting Hodgkin's lymphoma, it's going to be me.

A (9:49)

Well, at least you have access to some cutting edge healthcare. Maybe you can get in front of that, recognize it and find some treatments that are other than a prescription bottle.

B (9:57)

Yeah, and that's where I go to like, you know, it is going to be an uphill battle because as you dig in, in the layers to the onion. Right?

A (10:04)

Yeah.

B (10:04)

These are true stories. They sound so ridiculous. Do you know to this day the CDC's headquarters, this multi million dollar giant building was given to them by Coca Cola? Okay. And then there's emails. There's emails. Yeah, and then there's emails. In the 80s, this is, you can't make this shit up. There are literally in FOIA request documents now, leaked emails or, or not emails, Letters in the 80s of the head of the CDC telling Coca Cola, I'm going to do all I can to basically protect you from this diabetes debacle that we're seeing that sugar could be correlative to diabetes. And so these industries, these are, these regulatory bodies are captured. And then you go to the epa, same thing. Four out of the last six heads of the EPA went to go work for who? Monsanto?

A (10:52)

Yeah.

B (10:53)

One of the largest chemical conglomerates in the world. One of the most evil empires. I would argue they, you know, these are the people who created Agent Orange. These are the people who created ddt.

A (11:04)

And they have a lock on seed technology, like all sorts of stuff. I mean they have a, not only do they have a capture on that entity, but they have a capture on a lot of agriculture as well too.

B (11:14)

And farmers are terrified of them.

A (11:17)

They will get, they will get obliterated. You're not going to fight Monsanto in court. Yeah, they'll just be like, hey, get 15 lawyers and just do 10 years of lawsuits and I don't care what it costs.

B (11:26)

And one of the things I've been trying to ring the bell on to make people aware because we talk about national security. National security. The state of Texas banned this Chinese agrichemical company and so did, I think three other states because we didn't want Chinese chemicals being sprayed on all of our farm products. That makes total logical sense. But what they're not seeing is that Monsanto is not an American company. And Monsanto buys 100% of its chemicals from China. China. 100% of the ingredients come from China. So it's. We're literally putting our entire agricultural system in the hands of a potential enemy. I mean, that's terrifying.

A (12:08)

I don't even know if I would call it potential anymore. I've hosted recently, I host another podcast called Change Engines with a production company called Ironclad. And I've done a series of episodes just kind of talking about China. The last one was with two guys who lived in China. It was interesting. One of them was the first guy to be uploading YouTube videos from China before they said, no, no, none of this. Then he was actually relatively tech savvy, so he worked his way around it with early VPNs and let's see, 24 years combined between the two of them. They were both expats. One was South America. The other guy was, I think from Philadelphia of all places. Learned to speak Chinese, started a motorcycle club together, rode all through China. Apparently motorcycles are banned in some large Chinese cities. They want no part. It's like a sign of a poverty. Like, get out of here with your trash motorcycle.

B (12:56)

Oh, wow.

A (12:57)

But they told this whole narrative of, you know, it seemed as if China had this. It was a shift post Xi Jinping coming in. But they were talking about he was able to upload to begin with. Then he started getting visits from, you know, state sponsored people knocking on the door, police. They were able to get around it and then they eventually got to a point where they needed to leave. Both had married Chinese citizens at the time. They're living with their family here, but they're talking about it. The amount of money that China is spending on trying to push out complete false messaging of, hey, we are open. We're trying to be the good trading partner. We are, you know, we want to be part of this global. It's all propaganda. Then he was talking about one of their episodes. He just translated a children's book that is taught in their schools. And it's basically was, the west is your enemy. These people are the root of all problems that we've ever had. Our goal is to destroy them. And I'm paraphrasing largely at this point, but we're hitting the. So there's the prop, there's the propaganda. Message. But then there is actually what is being taught and indoctrinated and I mean, these guys live there for 24 combined years. They have. I mean, they're fluent. It was awesome to talk to them. And now their whole YouTube channel is just dispelling Chinese propaganda. They are by. By. They're diametrically opposed to the west in what we do. I think we can take them out of. They may be an enemy bucket regardless of what you're seeing on TikTok research. Who owns that, by the way? People.

B (14:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (14:35)

They're. They're a peer to peer adversary. They're not an ally by any stretch.

B (14:39)

Yeah.

A (14:40)

So, yeah, why would we. And it goes farther. Why do we allow China to buy property around military bases? I asked them that too and they just started laughing. They said you should try to, as a foreign entity, buy property in China. No. Yeah, not happening.

B (14:54)

Well, and you go back to the drones over New Jersey. Nobody still told us what those were. I don't know if you have your.

A (14:59)

Thoughts, but I mean, I always have thoughts. Whether or not they're reasonable.

B (15:02)

Yeah, yeah. Because I know the UFO whistleblower David Grush. And Grush was at the time was saying, my gut says it's China and that we won't say it's China because if we do, that would be a declaration of war for them to be flying with impunity over us U.S controlled airspace and a sign of weakness.

A (15:23)

How would those drones have gotten.

B (15:24)

I don't know. That's where it's tricky. They were coming off the ocean is.

A (15:27)

What they could have been deployed on a boat. My guess is it probably was military tech, to be honest.

B (15:31)

Okay.

A (15:32)

There are military exercises. I'll give you an example. When I was at the. Spent a short amount of time at an east coast command and we would do training called RUT, Realistic Urban Training. And we would fly with the 1 60th and I participated. I tagged along. After I had left there. The squadron I was with was up in LA and so I tagged along. We're flying blacked out helicopters at an altitude over la where it's setting off car alarms. No lights. I mean, actually, you know, LA is probably not the best example because I'm sure the people living there like they're filming another goddamn movie. But you could have. There was a high. This would have been an amazing shot. You could have followed the helicopters just because of the alarms going off. So it would have been like this dark spearhead of this wave of car flashing lights. But they do those in a bunch of cities and the 911 networks light up, hey, we're being invaded, this, that or the other. And so that's. I'm not saying that's what was going on up there, but I physically have been in places on training exercises where the locals freak out a little bit and they're never told exactly what's going on. They'll be like, hey, it's a training exercise. It's like, yeah, that is, mind you, we're like blowing up stuff and doing live fire munitions training inside of your abandoned buildings that we're telling nobody about. So I can.

B (16:46)

Wild.

A (16:47)

It's. And it's awesome.

B (16:48)

Yeah.

A (16:49)

And the pilot, I mean, I'm more talking. I'm looking off the side of these helicopters. Like, is this safe? Like, how good are your night vision goggles? Like, can you really see wires that might be strung across?

B (16:58)

Yeah.

A (16:59)

So it's, it's gnarly. Nobody knows what's going on, and the military never tells them. So I'm not saying that's what it was, but I could see that being what it was. And I have thought about the China thing, but the issue is, and I thought about it was, well, how do you get them here? Like in Ukraine, where they use drones to attack the Russian planes, they had to put them in trucks to a level that they could fly autonomously because you can't cross. You're not crossing the Atlantic. Yeah, that would be a battery technology. That would be. I mean, Elon needs to talk to them if, if they have that level of battery technology. Because from what I hear, they, they.

B (17:30)

Were saying a large amount of witnesses were saying these drones were coming off the ocean, maybe a sub. I could see.

A (17:36)

I don't. I don't know if you can launch drones.

B (17:38)

I just thought that was it. And then what are your thoughts? I don't want to go for it. I'm also.

A (17:43)

I got tinfoil. Do you want to wrap ourselves in it?

B (17:46)

Because of our mutual friend Joe, I've gotten to meet a lot of these whistleblowers. And one of the other guys that I had the opportunity to have dinner or at an event, have dinner with is Commander Fravor.

A (17:56)

Yeah.

B (17:57)

I don't know if you're familiar with his story.

A (17:58)

I am. And I want it all to be true.

B (18:00)

Yeah.

A (18:00)

I. I actually think for humanity, if they said aliens are real, and even though we think we're the most important entity on this little speck of the universe, I actually think it would probably recalibrate and do good things for humanity if we knew we weren't alone and we weren't the most technologically advanced of whatever it is that is out there. But I need one of these to bring me a piece of evidence.

B (18:28)

Yeah.

A (18:28)

This. I know a guy who saw a thing for sure. I'm like, cool. I like where your head's at. I want it to be true.

B (18:34)

Yeah.

A (18:36)

I need a little bit.

B (18:36)

Commander Fravor was telling us, just for perspective, this was I think 2002 or 2003, I mean, 20 something years ago.

A (18:45)

Yeah.

B (18:46)

And what he encountered moved at over 35, 000 miles per hour. With all of his analytics.

A (18:51)

Yeah.

B (18:52)

With all the data in the, in the cockpit and all their cross referencing, they had visual confirmation of a Tic Tac like object that had no known signs of propulsion or heat signature.

A (19:05)

Yep.

B (19:05)

And he was explaining they were. If this was a military exercise, like people say, he. It sits on some of our black ops programs.

A (19:14)

It still hasn't been released and we've.

B (19:15)

Had iterations and that's where his thing is. Like I have still to this day haven't seen anything that comes close to what we encountered that day. And then the creepiest of all, because this is a very pragmatic guy, right. This is a, you know, he's rigid. He's not even saying it's aliens. He's saying, I don't know what the hell it was. I'm just telling you what I saw. Moved at 35,000 miles an hour, was trans medium, went from space to air to ocean and evaded our best and brightest fighter pilots in our F22s, I.

A (19:43)

Think is what it was probably back then F14s probably. Or F18s was cutting edge and teens were tailing off the top gun one. And the F18s, I think were in service at that point.

B (19:53)

And he said the creepiest of all was it near their set point. And I didn't know what that means because I'm a layman. And he's like, that's in our head. That's not in the computer. If I'm understanding correctly, that's just in your, in your head. So how would the, how would this Tic Tac know their set point?

A (20:10)

I don't know. I want it to be true. So deep. Here's another thing too, I think about if this technology, entity, whatever it is, if they have the ability to travel through space and time and they can get here, why do they crash so much? Right. Like there's a, there's something a little Bit off there as well. Like, we get to Earth and all of our ability to navigate through space and time at light speed. Yeah, we lose all that and we start crashing, usually by trailer parks.

B (20:38)

I don't.

A (20:41)

And again, I want it to be true. I just. Because I listened to some of the. The testimony and you know, they'll talk about covered programs or, you know, read in programs and all these things and that stuff's all real. And I get that there is a risk to disclosure and somebody coming forward, but that is the one piece that is missing is an actual piece of demonstrable data that says, hey, this is the tech I saw. And oh, by the way, here's a tile from the ship and I'm just going to leave that there and you can go ahead and turn that over to scientists. That's what would get people to flip.

B (21:13)

Yeah.

A (21:14)

And God, I wanted to.

B (21:16)

You know, Gary Nolan from Stanford University, he does have a piece of metal that was given to him, supposedly.

A (21:24)

No, nobody has that.

B (21:25)

But he's. But he says it was a CIA meeting, they asked him to analyze it and if that's true. And then he broke down.

A (21:33)

But here's the thing.

B (21:33)

He broke down the energy capacity required to move at 35,000 miles per hour and it's like more than the US generates in a year or something to that nature. And he's like, how would that. And you're burning that.

A (21:44)

Yeah.

B (21:45)

What? Just around over the ocean? Like, how would that be?

A (21:48)

Donuts in a parking lot?

B (21:49)

Yeah.

A (21:50)

Here's the thing. I can see the agency sowing a deep misinformation campaign, because if you want somebody who's super credible, if you want to challenge that, what do you do? You give them some really shitty information that can prove to be demonstrably false, and then they're done. Right. Not that our government would ever do that.

B (22:09)

Yeah. Yeah. No way.

A (22:10)

I love you, government.

B (22:11)

No way.

A (22:14)

Yeah. I used to work for the government and now I won't mention the person's name, but I was hanging out with him recently, I'll tell you offline, you may not know him, but he's awesome. Also worked for the government for over 20 years and he essentially said his goal in life now is to die in prison at 70 for enabling civilians to be so free that the government locks him up.

B (22:37)

That's so.

A (22:38)

To which I responded, have you run this goal by your wife?

B (22:41)

Yeah.

A (22:41)

And he said, no. And I said, you might want to do that.

B (22:44)

Yeah. So, yeah.

A (22:45)

She may not share a parallel path to where you're trying to get. But yeah, I mean, I think the.

B (22:52)

Reason I've become such a. I don't want to say a conspiracy theorist was because I've seen the reality in healthcare. And right before we hopped on the podcast, I was telling you what I've seen in healthcare and the level of collusion, corporate capture, corruption, just. I don't even know how else to say it. All around, it's a technical term, mind boggling. And so if that's happening with drugs in our healthcare system, I cannot imagine what's happening with our military industrial complex and all of our, you know, military might and these contractors and black ops programs.

A (23:28)

People can just Google. When was the last time the DOD passed an audit?

B (23:32)

Yeah.

A (23:32)

And money is an interest. I had very little insight into this. Money is a very interesting thing. And I only had. Again, I'm not an expert at like the DOD at a policy level and a budget level, but at a, at a tactical level, at a smaller unit. There are ways where it almost seems like you have an unlimited budget because you can fund things through line items. Like if you bunch up, bump. If you bump up against a budgetary roadblock, hey, we want to get this. And it's so funny. Some of these things are based off of credit card limits. Like if it's $9,999, you're good. If it's 10 grand, nope, you need a different line item or a different way to purchase it. This is like the cutting edge tip of the spear. Organizations having purchases kicked back because the credit card purchase was nuts. Things you would. We're talking the most high speed dudes. Like, we need to get this. Like, ooh, yeah, how much? $10,001. It's gonna be a problem. Like, oh, okay. If I could get them to knock 2 cents off, are we good? They're like, oh, absolutely. Like, we'll have. It'll mission essential equipment. You'll have it immediately. I'm like, okay, but if you bump up against that or, you know, your budget is running dry in this area. At a certain level, there's a guy on a keyboard who can hit buttons and oh, where were you guys going to use this gear? Okay, well, there's a different bucket of money over here. So we'll attach it to this. So your line, your purchase is good. You're going to use it over here in this theater maybe, or you're training for this theater. Let's attach it to this line item. So it doesn't surprise me that the DoD has never passed A budget. But for me, as somebody, I mean, I bet you feel the same way as somebody who pays taxes. I'd be fascinated to know where my tax dollars go. I'd be fascinated to be able to vote. Be like, I want 100% of my tax dollars to go to the DOD. Not that that would work because we'd have some really weird programs that people wanted to get behind. But wouldn't it be cool to know where our money actually goes? Cause the government.

B (25:24)

Got line of sight and this is something I wanted. And I don't mean this disparagingly, I just mean it as the mission was incredibly, was incredible what these men did. What I'm referring to is that the bombs we dry, the, the bunker busters we dropped on Iran. But I look at that and I go, wait a second, are you telling me that we're. Let's just theoretically play this framework out. If you're the guy who says, oh, the Tic Tac is most likely US black ops program, okay, you're telling me that we have the ability to travel at 35,000 miles per hour in 2003 and evade our F16 Raptors or whatever they were at the time, but we still have pilots, man, flown fucking 30 year old technology flying across the ocean.

A (26:15)

In diapers, microwavable TV dinners on the way.

B (26:17)

That is crazy to me. And the accomplishment of those men and what they pulled off, highly impressive.

A (26:24)

Yeah.

B (26:24)

But where are all of our taxpayer dollars going? And what, that's our best option? In my mind I was just thinking we got some super secret drone that flies at high altitude and is there in five minutes and drops a bunker buster and it's out of there before anyone even knows it's there. Or is that the COVID story? I hate to take any credit for anyone, I'm just saying as a citizen, I look at that and go, that's crazy if that's the best we've got all these years later. Because we're talking about 30 year old technology and guys in diapers.

A (26:53)

Yeah, I mean, well, as long as we have humans in the loop, right? And this is one of the conversations about AI humans in the loop, humans on the loop, humans watching the loop, humans working for robots for their water ration, which is how I think that will go. Keep telling people the movie Terminator is going to end up being a documentary and we're all going to look back.

B (27:10)

James Cameron literally said a few weeks ago in an interview, I told you motherfuckers. Did you see that?

A (27:14)

How dumb are we in 30 years, like we tried to tell you, we made six or however many they made. Now we made eight of these things to try to warn you. I do think it's the best that we had for that solution. Yeah. I mean, from my understanding, the reason that we dropped those is we had the only aircraft capable of carrying this, that particular size of weapon, and it was the B2. Yeah. And I say that because, I mean, they were able to determine like you can't really track those things from. I'm not an expert on radar, but people watched the movement of that hardware going all over the place. And then they can also reverse engineer the damage that they saw, the penetration. And it's going back to conventional munitions. Yeah. You'd think, right? In 2003, it was the US military that was hiding this tech that could do that. You would have a time warp over there and shoot a laser beam through the dirt and destroy all this stuff.

B (28:10)

Well, that's where my mind's at because I'm also told. And again, I don't know, I'm not military background, but we can see a tick on the ass of a deer from a satellite nowadays.

A (28:19)

That's a little bit more movie stuff. I think I'm a little bit out of the game.

B (28:22)

Because if radar seems like it would be a thing of an antiquated technology in another five years at the pace we're moving.

A (28:30)

Yeah.

B (28:31)

And you would be reliant on satellite, intel, optics, satellite, isn't that great?

A (28:36)

The better footage. So satellite imagery, it all comes down to the resolution. You know, at satellite, you can get like 1 meter imagery on satellite, which is good. But lower flying UAVs are actually better. You can keep pixelate, you know, for a movement almost everybody recognizes. Now you could keep scrolling in. Have you ever had a moment where you're reading like a magazine and you tried to scroll in on the picture? I'm embarrassed that I can. I was reading something that's how.

B (29:00)

Yeah, I know. We are as so used to an iPad.

A (29:02)

Yeah. I wanted to see the picture better. And on a. On a physical book. This has only happened once. But I'll just be honest. And this is how dumb I am. I wanted to see the picture better, and I more than once did that before I realized that I've been completely trained by these stupid devices.

B (29:17)

That's so wild.

A (29:18)

It didn't work, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So UAV imagery is probably gonna be from a resolution perspective way better. But I also. I haven't looked at military grade sat Imagery for close to two decades at this point. It might be better, but it's also not always overhead. We have a bunch of ISR platforms like predators, reapers, even aircraft that have sensors underneath. You'll get better imagery that way. A tick on a deer's ass. I mean, I've seen stuff where you could see like game trails and you can find animals and if it's well footprinted out, you could see that. But that's a little bit probably closer to like Jason Bourne movies. I wish that shit was real.

B (29:54)

Yeah.

A (29:54)

I trust me. All of this cool stuff, I wish it was real.

B (29:57)

Yeah.

A (29:57)

I just have never seen it. Hope maybe there's some super top secret black ops unit out there that is only using that stuff.

B (30:03)

I don't think there is. If we're using diapers and flying across the ocean.

A (30:07)

Low tech works diapers, you know, we put them on geriatrics. Why can't we put them. Well, first off, hurry up and solve the problem of aging. What's, what's taking you so long?

B (30:17)

Yeah, well, so I think this, this is an interesting topic. I do think so. One of my mentors and friends and the individual who's taught me everything I know about stem cells and biologic is Dr. Ian White. Brilliant man, 22 years at the bench. Harvard Professor Ansari, Stem Cell Institute on the truly cutting edge. And I've said this before, if you want to know the future of medicine, you don't talk to a doctor, doc. Doctors inherit what the PhDs at the BE develop.

A (30:48)

What is the bench? What do you mean by that?

B (30:49)

The scientists doing the research at the bench in the lab.

A (30:52)

Okay.

B (30:53)

Doing the mag studies on mice.

A (30:55)

Okay.

B (30:55)

These are the guys truly on the cutting edge, in the fringe. And most of what makes it into modern day medicine is 20 to 30 year old medicine. Most of the medications, and I can give you real world examples. We were using GLP1 weight loss drugs.

A (31:11)

Eight years ago for type 2 diabetes, right?

B (31:14)

Yeah. And now it's commonplace in academia and primary care and every primary is writing it as a weight loss drug, GLP1s. And all of these peptides are short chain amino acids found naturally in nature. And we can synthesize them really quick. So if we see something that's advantageous, we can synthesize, compound it and utilize it. Now there's a difference between being FDA approved and working.

A (31:40)

Yeah.

B (31:41)

All the FDA approval process means is you spent, you know, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. I think it's. Now I don't even remember the numbers. So Staggering, however many hundreds of millions of dollars to bring a drug to market. But that is by design. And as you dig into the history of the fda, what you learn is industry influenced the FDA to build a moat around accessibility to care. And now the big five pharmaceutical cartels essentially control when, where, and how a peptide or a drug reaches the market. And then what they're trying to do today, and I systematically try to break this down for people, is ban all peptides. They're lobbying the FDA to ban all peptides.

A (32:24)

On what basis? Because I've heard GLP1 stuff. Now people are using this. Obviously they're being used off label for the. The weight loss. If you look at it As a type 2 diabetes, I'm seeing research of the neuroprotective benefits of that. Differences in Alzheimer's.

B (32:40)

Yep.

A (32:40)

At a smaller dosage than weight loss, which I don't necessarily. I don't know the dosage for weight loss. But a lot of people who seem to be pushing the boundaries are. Then they can't necessarily articulate why, but that's the impact that they're seeing.

B (32:55)

Yeah.

A (32:55)

It seems. Yeah.

B (32:55)

Well, because a lot of. If you look at all of the chronic health issues that have boomed in America, a lot of it is traced back to the 80s when we moved to ultra processed foods. And that's one component.

A (33:08)

Yeah.

B (33:08)

And then, you know, obviously the way we farm and micro plastics and everything's in a plastic bottle, we now know that we have the equivalent to a plastic spoon worth of microplastics in our brain. 5% of the human brain by volume in America is now microplastics.

A (33:23)

Awesome.

B (33:24)

These are real numbers.

A (33:25)

Can you get that stuff out?

B (33:28)

You can get some microplastics out. And we actually are. That's one of the things we do at wastewell. So like my buddy Philip Franklin Lee. Have you met Philip?

A (33:36)

No.

B (33:36)

He's a big time chef. Okay. And he's, he's nationwide. But Philip came in, we screened him, we identified that he had. He had a lot of inflammation and different issues. He couldn't figure out what was going on. His microplastics level in his blood were sky high. It took us about 12 months to get his microplastics levels down. But it was through changes in his behaviors and diet, not drinking out of plastic, you know, bottles all the time. And then trying to run him through all of our protocols and procedures to help him flush that out. And now we can quantify that for him through his blood work that it's down. He can physiologically feel the difference. He's like, dude, my cognition, my memory, all of that, all that brain fog is gone. My joint inflammation is gone.

A (34:20)

Yeah.

B (34:22)

And so I think one of the things that's happening is we had this boom in ultra processed foods, which led to a boom in chronic disease. And I'm not saying that all of these industries are colluding, but they're siloed and compartmentalized in a way that if I'm big industry and my business is to sell Alzheimer's meds, business is good, right? I mean, if it's not broke, don't fix it. And everything you said about that gold, it. As soon as we move to quarterly earnings and quarterly profits, and it became about hitting a quarterly earning and a quarterly number, it got away from saving a life, preventing a disease, driving health span, driving longevity.

A (35:04)

That's what Chris said, too. And he was breaking down it just from a pharmaceutical perspective. You know, they locked in the percentage that companies were allowed to basically make off of the monthly payments that people pay into it. So they're like, okay, we'll just fluff elsewhere. You want to lock us in at 15% or whatever it is. This is pure math. We'll just go on to the back end. Your prescription is now eight times more than it used to be.

B (35:24)

So what a lot of people don't understand, there's the big pharmaceutical cartel, okay? Which if you take the five biggest pharmaceutical companies and you stack them up against the five biggest insurance companies, the insurance companies are almost three times the revenue a year of the big pharma conglomerates. They are killing it, literally and figuratively.

A (35:47)

And is that just crushing it? Premium payments? Essentially, it's.

B (35:49)

Well, because they've now built in. So in the 80s, we established pharmacy benefit managers, and these PBMs were supposed to negotiate down the price of prescription drug care to make medicines affordable for us, for our grandparents, for our children, for our loved ones. What happened is those got captured by the big five insurance companies. Literally, the big five insurance companies went out, gobbled up the middlemen. They now own the PBMs, and rather than negotiating down the rate of prescription drugs, they negotiated up. And you go, wait a second. If they're paying the bill, why would they negotiate the rate up? Because they went to companies like Lilly, Pfizer, Glaxo, the big five pharma companies, and said, hey, instead of selling me insulin for $100, sell it to me for $600 and give me a $400 rebate.

A (36:37)

The rebates, when he talked about that. I mean, I didn't. I was listening to him. I'm like, this sounds bad. My brain exploded later in the day when I thought about it even more.

B (36:47)

What's horrible, because you've now aligned your insurance carriers to monetize and profiteer off of chronic disease, which puts people. There's no money in preventative. They don't want the blood test, they don't want the diagnostic test. Because 32. There's estimates. We don't know because of these exemptions these insurance companies have, but the estimates are anywhere from 30 to 40% of their revenue is coming from monetizing prescription drug care.

A (37:16)

What that terminates in. My dad, who's 78, he. God, he's an absolute nightmare. My sister's a nurse practitioner. She's, you know, tries to help him with all sorts of stuff. He still to this day thinks he has stage two diabetes. That's how he describes it. My sister's like, no, your blood work shows you may be pre diabetic. Meanwhile, he'll go into the coffee shop and crush a massive hot chocolate.

B (37:38)

Like, hey, bud, that's my dad. My dad's the saint.

A (37:43)

He. We were having a conversation. She got him on using a small amount of testosterone cream, which he called Tosterone. He was sitting in your seat trying to explain to me what she was prescribing to him. And I just had him keep repeating him, like, say it one more time. He's like, yeah, the male hormone, Tosterone. Like, what is it again? How do you spell that? Like, fuck, man. Help me help you, Whatever. He said what that terminates in? What you're talking about these kickbacks and rebates. He was at a pharmacy, I think it's a Walgreens, might be a cvs. And the woman in front of him broke down in tears because she could not afford the prescription that she needed. And I don't know exactly what it was. Obviously she was broken down to tears. It wasn't an aspirin. You need a prescription for that. But that's what that terminates in, is people who are relying on these things to sustain their life can't afford it anymore for profit. You.

B (38:36)

Yeah, it's so dirty. It's so sinister. So we can bring it back. One of the biggest catastrophes that have happened in the last 20 years of medicine is the opioid crisis. It killed my brother. I lost my brother at 27 to opioids. It killed so many fucking Americans. And to this day, it's just transferred into the Fentanyl crisis.

A (38:55)

How did he get onto. Was it an injury?

B (38:57)

He tore his ACL and classic surgery recovery. They gave him a bunch of opioids because this was in a time where everyone was handing out opioids. And the cr. Easiest part of all of it, Andy, is I had started a pharmacy that was out educating doctors on not using opioids and using non addictive, non abusive opioid alternatives. And I would, I would literally compound a topical pain cream that couldn't be abused that the patient could put on post op. And I was telling doctors why this is so important. But what happened? The insurance company said, go yourself. We're not going to cover pain creams. Put them on an opioid. It cost us $12 a month or whatever the number is. $50 a month.

A (39:36)

Yeah.

B (39:37)

What they didn't tell you is we now know this through again. FOIA documents that a huge chunk in all the legal documents of these lawsuits, a huge chunk of the revenue generated during the opioid crisis went to the insurance carriers themselves. Roughly 30% of every dollar made off of opioids was housed and profited at the insurance companies. So these companies were profiteering off of the addiction. The big pharmaceutical cartels were profiteering off the exemption. I'm sure you've covered this before, but the head of the FDA met with the Sackler family at a hotel to.

A (40:18)

Actually, I don't think he was the head. He was the guy, the one individual that was responsible for signing it off.

B (40:24)

Yeah. And he gave them the, he gave them the goose that laid the golden leg.

A (40:28)

That was after a 72 hour stint at a hotel where nobody knows what happened. Oh, where did he go work again after he got evicted?

B (40:35)

Months later he went to go work for Purdue Pharma.

A (40:38)

I, I don't.

B (40:39)

Nuts, man.

A (40:40)

Well, what I do like, and I don't know if anything will come from this because I know that Sackler, the Sackler family had agreed to pay. It was billions in settlements. But then it got broken down. That was over an extended period of time. So the vig that they were making off the money that they already had put aside was going to pay for the settlement. So it wasn't going to hurt him at all. But I believe a judge pierced in some way the family's personal holdings and I forget what it was. Oh, I believe. Was it bankruptcy? It was. They were trying to hide billions of dollars in their own family's wealth so it wouldn't go to the victims. And again, I'm a little bit over my skis on this one. But I know that a judge ruled that. Yeah, we're not doing that. I don't think anything has happened from that. But that's the first time I've ever heard of that veil being pierced like that. You know, maybe There'll be another 72 hours in a hotel room with a federal judge and then it's just going to go away, you know?

B (41:32)

Yeah. If you go, it's. What's nuts is this isn't the first time the Sacklers created the volume crisis of the 70s. They were already under congressional investigation in the 70s for the volume crisis that they created.

A (41:47)

Oxy saved that family. That Netflix doc or not doc, it's. It's close. What do they call that when it's based off true events, but they have actors portraying things. I want to say docu series, but that's not right. Let's say it's fictional. Yeah.

B (41:59)

Incredibly accurate. Fictional documentary.

A (42:00)

It's like a jack card novel. It's fictional. But you're like, whoa, dude, that's incredibly accurate.

B (42:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in that problem is that's not the exception to the rule. That's the rule. Yeah. And So I think 10 out of the last 12 heads of the FDA went to work for industry. Four out of the last six heads of the EPA went to go work for the chemical industry. Then you go to the CDC there. I think there's 12 panelists that are over all of our vaccine schedules. Most of those are consultants for industry. We can go all the way back to look at the mental health crisis in America. We were talking about that a minute ago. Deaths of despair at an all time high. Suicide all time high. Depression, anxiety all time high. We launched Prozac in North America at Eli Lilly because I was a drug rep. My very first job out of school was a drug rep. Eli Lilly did what the Sacklers did. They said, we are going to stop depression. Jump forward 30, 20 something years later. Retrospectively, what do we see with the depression market and SSRIs? We have not made a dent at all. On a 52 point depression scale. SSRIs, every single one that ever hit the market analyzed in their own data sets, fails to differentiate from placebo. Placebo scores 46. All the SSRIs combined score 48. Do you know what exercise is? Scores five times the efficacy of the. Of all the SSRIs combined.

A (43:25)

Yeah, but you can't charge for that. Yeah, I guess you can. 24 Hour Fitness, but.

B (43:28)

And here's where it gets even. Crazier. I've tried breaking this down for people. When people say, trust the system, trust the science, believe in the system. The FDA wouldn't put something on the market that's dangerous. Okay? Out of 12 blockbuster drugs launched by Eli Lilly, I think nine have black box warnings. The most egregious warning that you get.

A (43:47)

Like this might kill you on the box itself.

B (43:49)

9 out of the 12 blockbusters for the last 20 years. Then you look at the depression market and you go, wait, how did we come up with this? I was taught it was a chemical imbalance in the brain. Anxiety, depression, ADHD are all chemical imbalances. There's not a single study. There's not a single autopsy. There's not a single brain scan. There's not a single blood test that verifies and confirms that we have no way of knowing what's truly causing ADHD in children. We don't know. In fact, the diagnostic measuring stick was created for Ritalin, and it was created by a consultant for Ritalin. That's how we diagnosed ADHD to this day. Okay, then you go into depression. The depression scale was developed by Pfizer in an effort to sell more SSRIs. And that scale was developed by a Dr. Spitzer, who was a consultant for Pfizer all the way back into the 80s at the American Psychiatric Association. And then we look at the American Psychiatric association, who backed all this, and we estimate in the 80s, roughly 20 to 30% of their revenue was coming from the pharmaceutical companies that were asking them to push this narrative. And so our measuring stick was created by industry, perpetuated by industry. This story that it's a chemical imbalance in the brain is not quantifiable or factual. It was mythology that became dogma, that became fact. The same way testosterone was beaten out of the marketplace all the way back to the 1930s. When people say testosterone causes prostate cancer, that is absolutely, positively, factually incorrect and has been debunked.

A (45:24)

It's showing now that it actually decreases your risk.

B (45:26)

Bingo. And that study, you go, where did that study come from? It was one study in the 1930s.

A (45:32)

Testosterone. But I know Tosterone is definitely helpful.

B (45:34)

Yeah.

A (45:37)

I made him say it six times, and he looked at me like I was the one with the dick growing out of his forehead.

B (45:41)

My dad. My dad still is like, I don't want to get prostate cancer. I'm not your. Your number one risk factor if you're not. Well, other than being a male, obviously. But the biggest risk factor you have for cancer Other than smoking is obesity, metabolic disease. It is the cascade effect that leads to everything else. So back to your question that started all this. When are we going to live forever? I think that the, there's a lot of guys out there touting that, hey, I think we're going to be able to live to be 150 or this or that. Where I was going with it is there's brilliant minds like Dr. Ian White that believe within our genome that don't even believe that. No. We share a common ancestor with the eternal jellyfish that lives over 5, 000 years and can replicate and, and rejuvenate itself. We share a common ancestor with the greenland shark. Over 50 of our DNA is shared with the Greenland shark.

A (46:30)

Really?

B (46:30)

That doesn't have cancer rates and lives 600 years. The Galapagos tortoise lives over 200. Those cell, those genetic codes in our body and the question is, can we find them and activate them? It's within our genome.

A (46:45)

Yeah.

B (46:46)

At some point one of these mad scientists are going to find that. So my thing is at ways to, well, can we buy you health span? Yeah, can we buy you healthy, happy years of your life? And the answer is yes, 100%.

A (47:02)

That's all I want. I've had this conversation, you know, it's an existential do you want to live to 100? And at a surface level you're like, that's an interesting question, but what did the last 15 years of my life look like? Am I in assisted living? Do I have a walker? Because if you say for 15 years, your quality of life is going to be dog shit, but you'll hit 100. But at 85 years, you're out there living your best life, having experiences, still mobile with your kids, grandkids. At that point, I'm going with the 85 all damn day long like the jello and watching cartoons, hard pass. My dad asked me to promise him if he ever gets to that place, wheel him into oncoming traffic. To which I'm like, absolutely, no problem. And my wife looks at me like, what in the actual fuck is wrong with you?

B (47:41)

Jillian has it. Jillian has one like that where she's like, the kids know. They know when mommy can't talk. Pillow on face when mommy. And she tells this story and I'm like dying laughing. But we know. So this is where I think I can quantify for people and this is where we're taking a different nuanced approach to medicine that now is becoming commonplace. But five years ago, when I was going On Rogan talking about people paying cash for blood work, people were like, what the fuck are you talking about? I have insurance, dude. I'm not gonna go get a blood test for nothing. For. For what? So you can tell me something's wrong? I don't want to know.

A (48:18)

That is a way to live, I suppose. Wait until you're like, I actually can't get out of bed and I have this massive lump on my neck. That could be one way to live. Maybe look under the hood before the check engine lights on.

B (48:29)

That's my message. And now I do believe a large percentage of Americans, because of COVID candidly, they don't trust academic, the medical establishment and the academic establishment on these topics. And my thing is, the system is built. You've got to view insurance, like car insurance. It's there if you total the fucking car. It's there when something catastrophic happens. If you were expecting your insurance to get proactive, predictive, and personalized, you're going to be sorely disappointed. And for a couple hundred bucks a year, you can do a deep dive into your biomarkers and beyond that, like what we're doing. So in a dream world, if we could do a full workup, it's cancer screening where we can identify 200 types of cancer at stage zero. That's a 99 survival rate. I can tell you seven years in advance if you have any signs of any forms of cancer. Over.

A (49:24)

Is that blood based?

B (49:24)

Blood based? Over 200 different types of cancer. So check that box off. Secondly, DEXA and VO2 max. If I have your DEXA, I know your lean muscle mass, your visceral fat, your subcutaneous fat. I know your muscle mass, I know your bone mineral density. Now I can begin to build a business plan. Like in business, we establish a plan, right? I want to hit this quarterly earning. I know I need to be at this, at this quarter, which means I've got to be at this growth rate per quarter. We know the decades of decline of. Of the human body, and we know the average bone mineral density loss. And we can get proactive and predictive and build a strategy to preserve lean muscle, to preserve bone mineral density, to preserve our body's integrity, and to help keep your body healthy and happy. And then the rest is all coming down to biomarkers. You load it all into Allen and the AI is now in your pocket 24 7, monitoring your REM sleep, your deep sleep, your heart rate variability, what date you started treatments, how those treatments are impacting you physiologically in real time. And then I think the future is going to be you're not going to get a blood test, you're not going to go to a doctor. We're literally going to. You're going to take a pill in the morning and we're going to know your biomarkers, your insulin level in real time, man.

A (50:39)

Or like a. If you do get blood, it'll be a finger stick. That's like.

B (50:42)

Yep.

A (50:42)

If we're still using USB C at that. Like you plug it into the bottom of your phone, do your stick and it'll 100%. Do any of your scans require magnets? And I asked this selfishly because I have retained ferrous metal in my body. So I'm not eligible for MRIs, which sucks sometimes. Like I had a bowel obstruction or an intestinal blockage, which was super fun by the way. I recommend it for everybody to include the surgery and the. Oh my God, man. They gave me this liquid to drink.

B (51:08)

Do you know what caused it?

A (51:10)

I asked the doctor that trust hydration. No. I asked every MD that I could find. You know what the answer was? And this is. They told me the truth. Bad luck. They said that there's, you know, we all have a little bit of scar tissue on the inside of our stomach lining for whatever reason. I had a loop. Loop and a piece of my. It was up in the right hand side. My right, it would be your left as you're looking at it. A piece of my intestines went through that loop and it cinched. Wow. And that was not a fun ride. But they tried to give me the non evasive.

B (51:39)

Oh, it's crazy dangerous.

A (51:41)

Yeah. I didn't realize that my wife saved my life because I told her just we were in Salt Lake City. She was teaching a jiu jitsu seminar. So after it started hurting, I went out onto the mats for 90 minutes and rolled because I'm an idiot. Then told her I would drive. Then wasn't not able to drive, but she wanted to go to and out because we don't have that up here. So she crushed some burgers, took me to a pharmacy. She was trying to get anti gas pills. By the time she came out, I was sitting with my head down in the footwell and my feet up on the top of the foot rest because I'm like, this is just a gas bubble. I got to work on this. She googles the nearest hospital, drives me there. I'm laying on the emergency room floor mostly because it was cold and I was sweating my ass off and yeah, started.

B (52:21)

You're so lucky, man.

A (52:22)

Dude. So I started that journey. They gave me a cat skin and they hit me with some morphine. But I'm a mess. I have a genetic blood abnormality. My sister and I do. I don't process opiates to the same degree that other people do.

B (52:35)

It's ultra slow metabolizer.

A (52:37)

I'd have to get it from my sister. It almost has no impact, which sucks.

B (52:41)

Oh, interesting.

A (52:41)

Because it can leak.

B (52:42)

There's 20% of people that have that outlier. Do you have Polynesian descent at all?

A (52:45)

I don't think so. Just unlucky. But I tell you when it really sucks is when you are in pain and they hit you with morphine and you go, no, that didn't work. And they're like, oh, pain seeker, huh? Are you.

B (52:57)

Oh, shit.

A (52:58)

And because that shit's real, people come in for that.

B (53:01)

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

A (53:02)

And then the only thing that even took the edge off a little bit was a high dose of Dilaudid, which to my understanding is way more powerful than morphine. Then they gave me some ketamine, which I did not enjoy once I got into the icu because they gave me just enough where I was on that lip of being disassociative. I was hearing the hairs in my ear canal move around on my. Like, we need to stop this immediately. But they gave me this fluid.

B (53:25)

God, dude.

A (53:26)

Because they wanted to go non, non invasive. So apparently bowel obstructions, as you age in life, depending on your sedentary, relatively common. So they have a couple people come in per week that just haven't in two weeks. So they have this fluid that they give you. They mix it with, I think cranberry juice, because I call it the red juice of death. And you drink it and it starts contracting and your stomach contracts all the way through. Well, I had that kink. I was at a 10 out of 10 pain for four hours. I was athletically sweating through everything that I was wearing. I'm like thick fuel raven pants, sopping wet. My wife's looking at me like, I've never seen you like this. I'm telling the doctor, I don't care what you cut out. Let's just get into this process. Like, let's go. And so they tried to do it orthoscopically, weren't able to. So they ended up zipping me up from my belly button almost to the bottom of my sternum. But thankfully the guy. Everything past that loop was black in my intestines. And he almost. They were talking about removing intestines at that point, which my understanding is a totally different journey. Like colostomy bag, all this. He cut the scar tissue first, and he gave it a bit, and he said the color started coming back. So he gave my body the chance to clear it. Thankfully closed me back up after. From my understanding, they pull your entire intestines out on the table and like, go through it it with like a garden hose. I'm really glad I was not. I was physically present for that, but not mentally aware of what's going on. How they get it back in there properly, I don't know.

B (54:57)

I've done this with a dog.

A (54:58)

Yeah.

B (54:59)

I stood in this procedure. I held my mastiff's legs while the vet. The country clinic in Texas. My mastiff ate a rug when I was on a dove hunt and impacted.

A (55:08)

Yeah.

B (55:08)

So we had to cut his bowels.

A (55:10)

Open all out, right.

B (55:11)

And we pull all of his intestine out, and they're slicing it, pulling rug out. He had beer bottle caps in there. It's like jaw. They were just putting shit on the table. All the shit this dumbass dog had ate. And I'm holding his legs, watching them pull his guts out of his stomach and lay it on the table.

A (55:25)

Then they jam it all back in there. And I asked him, how do you know you got it back in there? Right? And he actually said, we don't really care. You just get it back in there and your body sorts it. And that's why they tell you to walk so much after that surgery. It helps settles everything.

B (55:37)

Everything will shake out.

A (55:38)

Yeah, but I mean, that's nuts. Dude. There's a reason. Reason women live longer than men because I literally just told her we were in. So I'm gonna just start driving towards Montana. I'm sure it'll be fine. By the time we get home, I would have been dead. I would have had sepsis in, you know, 48 hours or 50 years ago. That would have been. I would have been a death sentence for sure. But I can't get MRIs, which. Which is limiting. So how much of the. The stuff that you guys do, does it revolve around MRIs or math?

B (56:03)

The only one I would know is I think the DEXA is a magnet. I believe that is a magnet. So, yeah, you wouldn't be able to do. Yeah, but a lot of it's blood work. A lot of it's algorithm based. Based off your blood work, your biomarker VO2 just tells us your overall cardiovascular Conditioning. There's a lot of stuff we can do with ultrasounds. There's alternatives. But a lot of what I try to break down for people is you're told aging, you're just going to get tired, things are going to hurt. That's part of it. The reason that occurs is there's a precipitous decline in building blocks, raw materials. And our body's less efficient with those raw materials because we've also had. Now I'm 45, 45 years of endocrine disruptors, microplastics, glyphosate, atrazine, you know, poor choices, drugs and alcohol, all the things we do to ourselves. And there is an impact on our body. But separate from that, you know, our 40s is known as the decade of decline because there's a decline in a lot of these signaling cells. And so what we try to do is assess and then implement protocols that optimize the body back to a state of healing and homeogenesis of where we would have been in our twenties. And so what is that? It's hormones. Right? That's the first of many things that trigger a cascade effect of decline. And they scared the hell out of men and women from hormones in the 90s and 2000s. And now it is literally the cornerstone of every single longevity practice.

A (57:34)

So my wife is battling that. She's. And so my sister, interestingly enough, she was a nurse. She worked in the emergency room, became a nurse practitioner, did a bunch of contract nurse stuff at Camp Pendleton, and then ended up working at hospice for a good amount of time. And I tell you what, that's a special, unique kind of person that can work in hospice. And she has flipped. And now she's like, how about we focus on keeping people alive? Focusing on largely, I'll call it hormone based therapy for men and for women. And her business is just exploding in San Diego. So husband's a firefighter. There's an internal market right there. But I tell you what, women have been very successfully scared. Oh, no, I can't take any testosterone. I don't wanna end up looking like a guy. I don't need a beard. You know, the number of times I've actually heard that is startling, though.

B (58:21)

Yeah.

A (58:22)

And it was. Whatever campaign that was, it's been impactful because I think there are people out there and basing this off of conversations I have with my sister, her clients coming back like, oh, my God, I feel amazing. Then their husband starts knocking on the door, like, what are you doing? For my wife? Because she's looking and feeling great and I feel like crap. So do you got anything from me? The propaganda campaign out there, it really has worked.

B (58:45)

Yeah, well, they even did it with estrogen in the Women's Health Initiative. They scared women off of estrogen. And one of the things that Big Pharma was doing, Eli Lilly and Fosama and Merck were promoting osteoporosis drugs. And we know if your hormones are good, you're not going to experience a decline in bone mineral density. So guess what? As soon as all these women were scared shitless of estrogen, now they got to go take another drug just to keep their bones from deteriorating. Because estrogen is essential for your organs, your skin, your soft tissue development and healing. Even men. Men are terrified of estrogen and they'll over suppress their estrogen, especially if they're going to like low T centers. It's like you need estrogen, you want it within physiological norms. You don't want to be a woman. But like, like, yes. And women don't even understand. Same thing with testosterone. You need testosterone. Women have more testosterone in their body than they do estrogen. They just don't have as high a level of testosterone as men.

A (59:39)

Yeah.

B (59:40)

And so they're terrified of testosterone, but they need it. Yeah, they need it for sex drive, for muscle mass. If you want to tell the number one indicator other than obesity for longevity is lean muscle mass. If we can keep muscle on our frames, men and women, we can drive our health span again. Like what you and I are talking about today. I think you're full of shit if you're telling people you're going to help them live to be a hundred because there's just not the data to show we can do that. But I don't think it's unreasonable at all to say, if you follow what I'm telling you, I can help you. Barring something catastrophic, I can help you reduce all cause mortality, I can help you keep lean muscle mass on, I can help you keep visceral fat off. I can help you avoid metabolic disease, I can help you avoid cancer, I can help you avoid Alzheimer's, dementia and all these mental health things because they're all indirectly correlated to the metabolic disease and obesity and insulin response in your body. If we can fix all those things and truly proactively provide health care, not sick care, it's not unreasonable to think we can all live to be healthy, happy 85 year olds. Yeah, and buy us enough time for one of these mad scientists like Dr. White to figure out how do we trigger these genes that can fix so many things in our body?

A (61:00)

Or the crazy billionaire in San Jose who walks around with an umbrella and thinks he's going to be 100. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know his name.

B (61:08)

About the Brian Johnson guy who's like, it looks green because he's a vegan and doesn't eat meat and literally monitors his erections at night and compares his erections to his son's erections. There's a weird going on out there.

A (61:20)

I think anything can be taken too far. I mean, I guess for him, I don't, I don't understand money to that degree, but I guess if you have all barriers removed economically, like get after it. But also, let's say you're trying to do that from all your health metrics, but a buddy's like, hey, let's go do, let's go drive Lamborghinis in Vegas. On the track. You're gonna say no because of the risk associated that you're gonna be so healthy, but say no to an awesome life experience. Science.

B (61:46)

No. The point to me is to give you the. And here's the crazy thing about all cause mortality. We know quantifiably, this is facts. If you have more muscle and less fat and aren't obese and you do wreck that Ferrari, your chances of living are astronomically higher than the diabetic fat. I'm sorry. Yeah, these are the, like, this is why like military dudes are banged up beat to. And you can't kill them. You're jumping out of helicopters and doing all the crazy y' all do do.

A (62:17)

That's a good point.

B (62:19)

You're structurally banged up.

A (62:20)

Yeah.

B (62:21)

But a lot of you guys are so fit, you're hard to kill. Like the saying is true. Like make be harder to kill.

A (62:27)

Well, the saying is if you're going to be dumb, you better be hard. Let me just tell you, there was no intelligence test in any of the pipelines that I went through, thankfully, because I might have had a different career. That actually is a good point. I mean that, that job is hard and it wears on you. But, but I mean it's like two hours every morning is generally dedicated to, you know, go to the gym and like you need to get it on the job is hard. The self care aspect of that and taking care of it on the tail end and, you know, I don't think they're doing it intentionally. They didn't understand like blast wave exposure, tbi, all that. Those were terms That I heard after I've been out. I hope they're taking a look at it. But a lot of that though has impact on the endocrine system. So you're diving back into what you're talking about. You better have somebody look at that, that who knows what they're talking about. Not your, you know, primary care physician that may or may not know a whole lot about that. I mean I know they, they do blood draws, but I don't necessarily.

B (63:18)

A lot of primaries are. Again, back to the corporate capture. They're good guys and girls. They're trapped within an ecosystem where they are trying to get you in and out of there on a well visit or a sick visit. They're billing your co payer deductible. They've got six minutes on average. They can't get the test done because they're not allowed to do a deep dive. And then medicine is so siloed. If you're going to be on testosterone, testosterone for more than a few months, like they, they don't want to man monitor that and manage that. So they refer you out to an endocrinologist or a urologist which then takes three to six months to get in with that specialist. Then the insurance fights you. Then you have to have FA2 failed testosterone tests fasted below 350 to be considered medically low. That's that. To wait for a guy to be on dire straits for a year before you'll give him therapy is insanity. And that's where I'm going with this. You could, with a cash pay visit, get all the answers to the question be. And the way I explain it is at Wastewell, our job of our clinicians, and this is how I've built this system, is not to be a dictator ruling from a pulpit and dictating down to a patient what they can or can't do do. Our job is to educate, enlighten and embolden and to bring the patient along on their healthcare journey. It's your body. I've got guys that are bodybuilders that are taking levels of testosterone outside of us, that we just try to keep.

A (64:46)

Them safe and tell them breast and protein powder.

B (64:49)

It's, it's. Yeah. And you're like, what are you doing, man? We got the guys that are terrified of taking a hormone because they were told it's going to wreck their endocrine system. And it's like a. Okay. If you're 45 years old and you've already had kids and you're coming into the clinic and your testosterone's 350. And you say I want to do it naturally. You can't get blood out of a turnip. I can tell you physiologically, yes, through diet, lifestyle and training, maybe we can increase your testosterone by 30%. Okay, you're 450. You're still on the low end of the spectrum of where you would have been in your youth. Youth. And you're scared of something. That's the boogeyman, that's not real. Like if we optimize your hormones to where you were in your 20s, we're going to preserve bone mineral density, we're going to preserve lean muscle mass, we're going to reduce visceral, visceral and subcutaneous fat, we're going to increase protein synthesis, we're going to give your body the ability to heal, we're going to do reduce inflammation, we're going to increase cognitive function, all of these things. And that's just one hormone. But there's a symphony of hormones. And if we're going to make music, we got to tune all of the instruments. And that's where it's like you got to be looking at estrogen, you got to be looking at insulin response, you got to be looking at IGF LR3. Like we now have peptides that have come out in the last five years. Guys were taking growth hormone like Stallone and all these guys that beat the fountain of like seem to have captured the fountain of youth. Youth. There are issues with growth hormone, but there's a peptide called insulin growth factor LR3 that is a time released growth factor peptide that gives you all the benefits of growth hormone without any of the negative side effects.

A (66:33)

Wasn't growth hormone originally for dwarfism.

B (66:35)

It was for people who had basically an endocrine system issue, pituitary issue where they weren't getting the amount of growth hormones they need. But growth hormone is what that in our youth helps us have youthful skin, joint healing, recovery. But even beyond that, there's IGF LR3 which is essentially, think of it almost like a time released insulin growth factor. All the good things you get from growth hormone with minimal of the bad things you would still want to screen for cancer. You would want to make sure because.

A (67:05)

It makes stuff grow essentially correct. Good cell phones.

B (67:07)

Same thing with BPC157, the Wolverine molecule that people are fucking buying on the Internet now. It's like, dude.

A (67:12)

Oh, they mixing it with the TB500 too? Yeah, boom room.

B (67:15)

But those are phenomenal. But when utilized Appropriately. And when you've screened for cancer, because you need to understand it, it is causing. It does increase angiogenesis, and it heals vessels, and it can even heal. In. In studies, it's been shown to heal hearts, joints, ligaments, tendons, even. Even spine injuries. It re. They literally severed my spine and gave them BPC and high dosages, and their spine rehealed itself. So there's a tremendous amount of benefits to. To it. But if there's an underlying cancer in your system, it can also exasperate that cancer growth. And that's why it's important to understand, you know, your medical history, your predisposition, even what you discussed earlier. Your blood disorder. Yeah, we screen for that. That's another test that's not covered by insurance. And so the reason most of this shit isn't known is the doctor didn't.

A (68:07)

I had to get. My wife got a hold. I kept telling my wife not to get a hold of my sister because they were on vacation. She finally did, like, two and a half hours into it, my sister looked up the ex name of it, went to the nurse and was like, listen, this is what this is. Neither the nurse or the doctor had ever heard of it.

B (68:23)

Wow.

A (68:24)

Today's episode is brought to you by Element. I can't think of anything better than watching your friends just absolutely crush. I am so happy for Robin, Nikki, Wolf that they're involved with this organization, that I've known them for as long as I have, and that they're absolutely just killing it. Element is every day for me. I start off in the morning. I go with a nice, big, tall water. I throw some Element in there, not a full pack in my morning. And I don't actually have a good reasoning for why that is. Rob will probably reach out and say, hey, you should have the whole pack. But I start my day probably more than anything, just to flavor the water so I can get it down a little bit faster. But any day I do anything physical, it is mandatory that I have one of these. And I'm just gonna. Actually, let's just do the exact same thing. Let's go over to their website so I can show you what I'm talking about. This is their newest flavor. It's lemonade. It is unbelievable. It tastes exactly like lemonade. Now, why do I have to have this after any type of physical performance? Because you're getting a thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium. You are recharging what your body has just expended. And it absolutely makes a difference. I can feel the days where I don't have one of these packets with me. I can feel the days where I do. The best analogy that I have. And I'm not sure that if this is an IP theft or, or, you know, whatever it may be, but the first Tron movie ever. Dating myself here a little bit when they were drinking out of the water, their suit started glowing more. That's what I feel like. I don't know if they could make that claim, but I'm telling you that as a person is what I feel like. And now down here on the bottom, check this out. Sample pack or a variety pack so you can test a bunch of their flavors. These are amazing too. There's the sparkling, which comes in a convenient ready to go refrigerate. And it's the same amount of ingredients. 1,000 milligrams, 200 milligrams, 60 milligrams of sodium, potassium and magnes. And respectfully, you can check out all of the raspberry. These are the spicy ones. This one right here might go well with a cocktail if you like that. These are good for the winter months. And coffee, right? Chocolate caramels, unflavored. I'm not gonna lie. Don't like the unflavored. Doesn't help me consume more liquid. Black cherry sparkling. We have the grapefruit salt sparkling and citrus sparkling. Now, now I just got. Here's the larger 16 ounce. I just got sent a box of these things though that were 12 ounce and they were different flavors. One of them being the lemonade. I think that they are either on sale now or going to be on sale very soon. So keep your eye out for that. For all your hydration. Electrolyte, potassium, magnesium, sodium needs. Head over to drinklement.com cleared hot. You're going to get a free sample pack when you check out. Using that link so you can try a variety of their flavors. Will change the game when it comes to your recovery from exercise back to the show, which they.

B (71:21)

That's crazy.

A (71:22)

The pain medication changed after they got an understanding.

B (71:25)

Yeah, they could clearly see like, because there's.

A (71:27)

If this guy's acting, he's the best actor I've ever seen in my life. Because I don't know how you act. Profuse athletic sweat coming out of your every pore of your body.

B (71:34)

Well, because you can still die, you can still od, but you're not getting any of the therapeutic benefits. You're not getting any of the pain relief.

A (71:41)

So when I got hurt, that's the problem.

B (71:42)

They think you're opioid seeking because you're asking for more. But you really just have a variation of cytochrome P450, which is a gene marker that means your body is not a good metabolizer of that particular drug because it takes the pathway that your body can't process it. So it's just building up in your blood with all the negative but none of the benefit.

A (72:04)

So when I, when I got hurt overseas, I kept the doctor, they were giving me morphine. They're asking me like, hey, how does it feel? So I'm like, zero impact whatsoever. They eventually brought out a spreadsheet. They're like, listen, you are right here below this shaded area. Based off of your weight and the dosage we've given you, if we give you more of this, you might die.

B (72:24)

That's so crazy, man.

A (72:26)

I was like, okay, yeah. And I was unaware I had that until that incident occurred.

B (72:31)

Wow.

A (72:32)

I didn't even know about it.

B (72:33)

Yeah. And these are all things that could be implemented in a primary care practice if it wasn't captured by the patient. Big pharmaceutical and insurance institutions, like, candidly, you're. You're going to go, and here's how I found all this out. I went out and I. First, first thing I found out was the. Was the non abusive, non addictive pain cream. I build this pharmacy. I literally took at the time my life savings and I built this pharmacy out. And then I go out and I educate clinicians. And thousands of clinicians across the state of Texas are like, oh, my God, this is amazing. You're telling me I don't have to write opioids? Opioids. I'm going to write this instead. I love this idea. Brigham. Within six months to a year, they start getting letters. We don't want you writing this drug. Why are you writing a compounded medication? We recommend that you go back to an opioid.

A (73:18)

Oh, I bet they do recommend.

B (73:20)

Yeah. And it's because they're monetizing the opioid. And I was cutting the bottom line.

A (73:24)

That you go back to the opioid.

B (73:26)

And I'm cutting their revenue stream at the same time. It's so crazy. You brought up your blood. I had a cytochrome P450 diagnostic test. What you were just describing. I owned the lab that would do that test. I owned the blood lab that would do a blood test and I would go in and educate clinicians to go one you don't want to write an opioid. You should write this instead. If you can't write this or the insurance pushes back, we should quantify that this patient can actually absorb this medication without fucking dying. So we need to do a cytochrome P450 test, and the insurance needs to cover it because they denied the alternative. And I would navigate this Rubik's Cube of healthcare bullshit to be able to educate a clinician on how to treat their patient. Eventually, the insurance company said, you, we're not covering the cytochrome P450 test. Fuck you. We're not covering any alternatives to opioids. Put the back on opioids. So you took away the safety net. You took away our ability to uncover the root cause and risk profile for a patient. And you took away the alternative to avoid a catastrophic event. And you put them all back in harm's way so you could ride off into the sunset making billions of dollars a quarter. That's literally what happened. This was almost a decade ago. And then I said, I can't do this. I had 150 employees. I built this thriving company. The last revenue stream I had left that was keeping everyone's jobs and the light bills on was comprehensive blood work. And I was educating clinicians on the importance of getting proactive and predictive. Don't run a basic lipid panel that gives you nothing if you really want to treat somebody. A lot of these men and women coming in here with depression and anxiety are hormonal imbalances. Before you reach for an antidepressant, maybe we should take a look under the fucking hood and uncover, does this person have a hormonal deficiency? And so then I got thousands of clinicians across the state of Texas doing comprehensive blood pressure work. Proactive predictive medicine. What happened? Letter. They got the same letters, literally threatening their practices. If you continue to do this, we'll sue you. If you continue to do this, we'll shut down your medical license. With us as Blue Cross Blue Shield, as a carrier. The doctors were terrified, and they caved. Again. It's not that your clinician's a bad guy or girl. They are trapped in a ecosystem where they can't take a shit without the insurance company telling them they're allowed to. And that's when I built ways to. Well, and I said, we've got. I own blood labs, I own genetic labs, I own a fucking compounding pharmacy. And now I'm laying off 150 people. I had to scale all the way back to Eight people. We called it Operation Phoenix. I had to look 150 people in the eye and say I came up short. This was eight years ago. It was one of the most depressing times in my life. I feel like I could write a country song. I lost my dog. She was 14. She died. I lost my girlfriend.

A (76:22)

Country songs start, yeah, if there's a truck in this somewhere, yeah, you've like.

B (76:26)

The only thing I was missing is the truck. And then I had to lay off all these people and shut down my companies and rebuild from scratch. And we built ways to. Well, and I kept my pharmacy and I went out and I said, we're just going to have to build a telemedicine practice and go out and educate people on the importance of getting proactive and predictive. And eight years ago, people thought we were crazy. Literally, it was not common. Now you've got, I mean, I don't even know hundreds of telemedicine companies, Hims, hers, Romans, you know, Merrick Health, Transcend, you name it. There's so many damn companies out there doing comprehensive blood work and prescribing peptides and all these modalities. But when we were starting this eight years ago, there weren't very many. We were one of the few and the whole message was trying to educate people on what was going on the, that we were alluding to earlier. And so that's why I tell people, if you really want to do a deep dive, you're going to have to find a cash pay claim clinic and spend the money and get the diagnostic set. And a lot of it, once you have it, you have it.

A (77:29)

That's got to be soul crushing. I mean, I feel like people who go, they want to be doctors, it's, I'm sure there's sociopaths in there somewhere, but for most of them, they want to help people. But that has to be soul crushing to invest in like time to medical school, right? Your residency, all that, the money associated with it. I mean, these people come out with crippling loans, some for the rest of their lives. And then to get into a field where you legitimately want to help people and you're boundaried by economic restrictions, that has to just rob people of their, the joy of that job.

B (78:03)

It's brutal. Yeah, I've watched it over and over because I was a drug rep and I was also a surgical rep. So I, I worked for.

A (78:09)

How did you get into that line of work? Drug and surgical reps?

B (78:12)

Yeah, well, funny, funny. So right out of college, I Was, I was in a sales program. Okay, not even biology. And I was number one sales program. And Eli Lilly recruited me to be a drug rep. And so they were like, hey, you know, they just like.

A (78:27)

The fact that you could sell. Yeah, okay.

B (78:30)

And the guy comes to me and he's like, hey, man, when do you graduate? I'm like, I'm two years away. And he's like, okay, I had opportunity of a lifetime for you. We're launching a blockbuster drug in North America. A drug that's going to rival Viagra. It's called cialis. It's a 36 hour Viagra. And I'm like, how soon would I have to graduate? And he's like, you'd have to be out in eight months. So I went to the dean of this college and I said, can I take 24 hours a semester and 24 hours in summer school? And he said, if you can get three professors to endorse you, I'll do it. And so I ended up graduating college in two years to get this job with Lily and I. It was the wild west, dude.

A (79:09)

Sell dick pills.

B (79:10)

Yeah.

A (79:10)

Like, it.

B (79:10)

I literally am a fucking. I'm a 22 year old kid. I looked 12 back then. My name's Brigham. Everyone thought I was Mormon 100%. Literally. So many doctors are like, I can't believe Mormons are selling dick pills now. This is crazy. Like, but I. It was like, you got to understand, launching Calis was like being Elvis Presley in healthcare. I'm not you. Like, I'm walking in and there's a smoking hot girl, but she's carrying toe fungus creams. And I would walk in and they would have her sitting in the waiting room for an hour and they're like, bria, come on back. Because they wanted the Cialis dick for you.

A (79:45)

Yeah, dick.

B (79:46)

They all wanted the Cialis pills for their buddies instead of. So I would get in there and I got to see. And it started out fun. It really was fun because I. I had a $25,000 a month expense account at 20 something years old. Dude, I was 21. Oh, dude, I had no clue what I'm doing. I'm like buying fucking World Series tickets and shit to take people to events. It was nuts. Like, what all I got to do back then. But then it pivoted and, you know, the real world sets in and they reallocate me and I'm no longer launching Cialis. Now I'm on the Prozac and antidepressant anxiety. Yeah. And that was when it Got dark. That was when I even remember in trainings going, wait a second. The placebo group has the same results as the, the control group. Why are just like two points more. I don't get it. But there's no risk of suicidal ideation, increased risk of violence, violence, increased risk of all. Why are we putting people on these drugs? Like I couldn't understand. And then you have these psychiatrists trying to walk you through how it's beneficial and. But it just never added up. Long story short, I had to get the hell out of that. I, I literally, as soon as they moved me, I wouldn't sell it, I wouldn't promote it. I'd go back to just selling Cialis, even though it was like 10 of my income. So they just kept writing me up. And then I got out of that and I went into medicine device.

A (81:09)

How deep is that? I, I don't think a lot of people to include myself until recently understood that relationship between the rep and the doctor and how, you know, just kind of what goes on there, the time spent, the transaction, the.

B (81:26)

All things being equal. All things being equal, clinicians prescribe for who they like, Period. Which is like you, you would not think that, but I'm telling you. And they. When I started at Lilly and again this is 20 something years ago.

A (81:39)

Yeah.

B (81:39)

They gave me an Excel spreadsheet every week with every prescription that was filled in my territory and the 10 biggest doctors on those drugs and their directive was, you go become this motherfucker's best friend.

A (81:50)

That's your hit list.

B (81:51)

You go, I don't give a. If you've got to show up to their kids baseball games, if you've got to take their wives out to happy hours, you go befriend these people, you get in with them and you explain to them why this is a best in class drug and we can help do xyz. But here's where it gets shady here. Then they, they literally would have me. I'm a 20 something year old kid. Immense pressure. You got to hit your number. We're gonna fire you. All these people, you're, you're failing the team. You're not growing Prozac enough or whatever, Cymbalta, whatever the antidepressant of the week is. We need market share. You gotta grow market share. And they bring in consultants that are doctors, that are psychiatrists. And psychiatrists would go, here is where the niche that this drug is indicated for, but here is where I'm using it. Way bigger market sector. Don't think of the Woman coming in as having to be severely bipolar. You know, that's a very niche market. I want you to think of the mom who maybe isn't sleeping well at night. She wakes up with racing thoughts and she's so stressed that she starts cleaning the house. That's your bipolar patient. That's the woman who needs this medication. Right. But that's not the label. That's not the indication.

A (83:08)

Yeah.

B (83:09)

This is for a very sick individual. And you're now coaching me through consultants to grow that market demographic. But here's where it's even more up. You're a 20 year old kid and then they make you take an online module that says, I will not promote off label. I will never speak of this off label.

A (83:26)

Label.

B (83:26)

I won't do these things.

A (83:27)

That's called cover your ass for the company you worked for.

B (83:30)

And then they give you a $20,000 a month expense account, tell you to go take guys out and drink beers, and then you're out hammered with a doctor going, do I tell them what the psychiatrist told me that they're using it here? Because you would have doctors go, look, Brigham, I like you, man. I want to help you. I just, I don't know where I can use this drug. I don't have that patient. That's in the indication.

A (83:53)

Yeah.

B (83:54)

And what do you do? A lot of people start talking off label, and that's what they do. And it was hard. It was this con and it felt dirty. And that's when I was like, look, when we're talking about giving guys boners, I can do, I can sell that shit all day.

A (84:10)

You can just leave that on a table. And a guy's like, oh, yeah, that was different.

B (84:14)

But now you're talking about mental health, suicidal ideation. You're talking about trying to drug children, children on ADHD medicines, when there's no real diagnostic measuring stick to tell us this kid even needs this drug. And I was that kid. I talked about this on Rogan. I failed kindergarten, dude, I'm not splitting Adams on the weekend. They literally wanted me on Ritalin or they said I had to get held back. I was dyslexic and adhd. I literally went to a class with kids with helmets. I was in. I went to pre first. They failed kindergarten, put me in a pre first special education because my parents would not put me on Ritalin and I was dyslexic. And in the 80s, the school system didn't know what to do with me. They just thought I was like autistic. Or something on the spectrum in some way. And how many kids got put on ritalin in the 80s that never got off? Like my brother to this day is on ADDERALL and he's 35 years old now.

A (85:10)

What would happen if he did get off of it? What would that look like for him? Even at a physiological level, it's rough.

B (85:16)

Because it's a methamphetamine. Methamphetamine. You've basically addicted hundreds of thousands, millions of people to methamphetamines. Right? And I would even explain to clinicians back then, I got written up for this too, because I wouldn't be on brand and I would try to find places that I thought made sense. And I would sell against Adderall. And I would explain, I would take a mag flashlight, which was not Eli Lilly's. I was supposed to hold up this pamphlet and go, do you recognize Billy? If you have a Billy in your pack. I would go in and I'd say, say, here's the misnomer about kids with adhd. People are telling you that they're not bright. I was a kid with adhd. I know what it's like. And I would turn on, I said, when you give a kid Adderall, boom. And I'd turn on the flashlight and I'd show the mag flashlight. All you're doing is turning up the brightness. You don't need to turn up the brightness because the kid is already bright. You need to refine that brightness and provide focus. And I would twist the mag and take that bright light and zoom it into the narrow beam. And I, like, don't believe the lie that Adderall and Ritalin are telling you that the kid's not bright. All you're doing is giving them a methamphetamine and jacking up the spotlight. But the truth is the kid just needs adaptive learning and focus and we can hone that in. And at the time, we were selling Strattera, which was non abusive, non addictive, non methamphetamine based, but then ended up getting its own black box warning down the road after I had left that industry. And I just look back and go, go, is there a, like, drug out there that doesn't have hidden in the studies, like the suicidal ideation? All of this with antidepressants. Joe talked about this. A huge amount of school shooters are on anti.

A (87:00)

How do they hide?

B (87:01)

It's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem.

A (87:03)

I would 100% agree with that. How do they hide those things? In the studies, I mean, you would think there would be a section that says warning.

B (87:12)

So suicidal foil requests with the fda, what they found, and I'm not going to name the companies because I don't want to get sued.

A (87:20)

Probably a good idea. They have more money than you and I can.

B (87:21)

Yeah.

A (87:22)

Because I have none. But it's like what.

B (87:24)

What they essentially found in a massive amount of these. Retrospective analysis of the FDA's approval process is that a multitude of these companies tried to classify agitation and violence and agitated thought thoughts as things like frustration patient exhibited frustrated mindset.

A (87:45)

So they're playing word games.

B (87:46)

Yes, to avoid having to say this shit is creating suicidal ideation and violent thoughts. Now it ended up getting. Some of the companies got popped and had to come back and add black lab black box warnings for suicidal ideation in teenagers. And now it's a blanket black box warning, I believe, for all SSR eyes. But even that, like, I think the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor was created because we were told and perpetuated a lie that all of this is coming from a serotonin deficiency in the brain. But there was never a study. There was never an autopsy. There's not a blood test. There's no brain chemical test. We don't know what's causing depression. But there is a strong correlation to the boom in ultra processed foods and food dyes and all these other things. And environmental toxins lessons and then also screen time and lack of outdoors. Like, kids don't go outside and ride their bikes all day like we did and crash and crush their adrenaline. I know me. I was talking to Joe about this, too. I will have anxiety and restlessness creep in if I don't train.

A (88:51)

Same here.

B (88:52)

If I'm not working out.

A (88:53)

I actually think that's a normal human thing, though, like you. Because otherwise, if you go all the way back to depending on your beliefs. You know, we were either caveman or, you know, we were created in a flash or combination of the two. Yeah, yeah, the caveman. There was no benefit to them sitting around doing nothing. They needed to go out and they needed to be active. They needed to hunt, gather, all of those things. I just think that's a little bit of our, you know, reptilian brain or our ancestors creeping forward like, hey, dude, put the Doritos bag down. Your fingers are orange. Put the screen down. Because I don't think we can evolve. Our brains cannot evolve at the pace that those.

B (89:26)

It hijacks our brains.

A (89:27)

Oh, that might be more addictive than crack. Not that I've tried crack and I'm not gonna do an AB test on this one. I would like you to know I did crack for a week, and it's equally as addictive as screen time. But I just think that that's our natural ancestral tendencies creeping through. I feel the same way.

B (89:46)

I agree with that. Cause I will get anxious, depressed, and.

A (89:50)

As soon as you work out, you're like, oh, man.

B (89:52)

Every time. Every time. Even if I don't wanna do it. And I'm driving there and I'm like.

A (89:56)

Those are the times you have to do it.

B (89:56)

At the most, I didn't wanna do this right now. Now I think I'd be dying doing Muay Thai for the next hour, getting hit.

A (90:02)

I'm like, those are the times you have to do it the best.

B (90:04)

And you leave and you're like, oh, thank God I did it every time.

A (90:08)

What is. Okay, so Black Label being the most heady warning that they can put on it. What has to happen for them to pull something? What's the leap between Black Label and we aren't selling this anymore.

B (90:20)

A lot of times the black box warning comes first, and then after the black box warning, they'll remove something from the market. If there's enough death and destruction, they will pull a product from the market. But it's really tough because you got to understand that's the FDA eating crow and going, whoops, up this one. You know, and the.

A (90:38)

And the producer of that saying, and you know, God damn. You know, there is a team of lawyers somewhere running a formula that until it hits that level, they're not pulling it.

B (90:48)

Yeah. Because, well, in the news right now, there's a ton of. I don't know if you saw the testimonies of Bobby Kennedy, rfk. He's getting grilled right now at these congressional hearings, but it's all digital mims. And you're looking and it's Pocahontas talking to you. Got 890. Elizabeth Warren, she got $890,000 from Big Pharma last year. And she's sitting there yelling at Secretary Kennedy, saying, you promised me and the American people you wouldn't take away vaccines, dumbass.

A (91:18)

Just taking away the mandate.

B (91:20)

Boom. That's my point. Parents should be able to choose pageantry. And this is what I've learned. Testifying at the state and federal level. I'm sorry, man. These fucking politicians are so obnoxious because as soon as they know the camera's on or there's an opportunity to go viral, now all Of a sudden, they rev up their give a shit. Like some of these people have been sitting in office for 20 fucking years. What have you been doing? As chronic disease has skyrocketed in our country, 1.7 million fucking Americans are dying a year of chronic disease, more than every war we've ever fought, completely combined.

A (91:55)

Yeah.

B (91:56)

And you haven't done a thing. You haven't questioned your buddies at Big Pharma, You've collected the checks, shut your mouth and continually perpetuated the problem. And what Secretary Kennedy is saying, which is factually true, is our CDC, our pediatricians, our HMOs, and our entire healthcare establishment is making money off of a vaccine schedule and is incentivizing, advised. And my dad always said, show me the dollars, I'll show you the motivation and I'll show you the incentives. And that's where it's headed. And it's like, again, nobody's saying that vaccines are all bad or all good. You cannot have pros and cons. Medicine is pros and cons. Medicine is risk and reward. And is it possible that 40 to 50 vaccines before the age of 22 could be potentially a cause of some of our healthcare crisis in our youth? Potentially, yeah. And if our entire system, including the CDC, 60% of its funding is because of vaccines and their taxpayer dollars come to support vaccines, their jobs are around vaccines and they hire heads to decide panels that decide what vaccines get put on the list and do. And we know that like products like Hep B, a child's not injecting intravenous drugs as an infant. And they shouldn't be exposed to blood that's containted with Hep B. The mom's already been screened during her pregnancy, the dad's already been screen, why are we giving them a Hep B? That's just one example. And I'm not anti vax. My thing is trust but verify. And if we allow industry to move the needle on us, they will move the needle on us. And we saw it, we just covered it with the antidepressant, the SSRIs, when we go to the anxiety meds, the depression meds, all of those measuring sticks were created by industry for industry to grow market share. Then you go to cholesterol, cholesterol. All of those panels were built by industry, colluded by industry, co opted by industry to grow the statin market. And then you even go to osteoporosis and osteopenia. We created false narratives built by industry. 10 out of the 12 heads of the Panels that decided what is considered a dangerous level of bone mineral density came from industry leaned on by Merck and Lilly and the big companies who want to do what they want to sell anti or not anti aging osteoporosis medications and osteopenia medications. Medications, right. But we know you don't need any of that. If we keep your hormones normal, you're not going to need that.

A (94:41)

You can spin it out farther too. I mean, the food pyramid was created by the Department of Agriculture. You know, there's a reason why grains are at the very top of that list versus and you know, and fat has been demonized and protein. You're like, what? But wait a minute, shouldn't we separate these two? Yeah, and I can add on to your industry capture. I was thinking about this when you were talking about people leaving, leaving these agencies. You can look in the DoD what happens to the Joint Chiefs of Staff or multiple star admirals and generals. That's weird. They work at Boeing now. Oh, they work at Raytheon now. You know what I mean? And then it's a really dirty cycle. I don't know if we can stop it. Which. Montana's a good place to weather that one.

B (95:30)

Yeah, I think you're right when you asked me that earlier. Here's what's wild. I don't want to be overly idealistic, but I don't want to be overly pessimistic. I'm trying to thread the needle, being realistic. We testified at the state of Texas level against Big Food, Big Ag, and they didn't think that we would be able to move congressmen and congresswomen's opinions. And dude, I shit you not, I testified in front of the Senate at the state level level. The American Heart association came and testified against us.

A (96:05)

Really?

B (96:05)

To support keeping Coca Cola, Twinkies and ultra processed foods, junk foods, on food stamps in the state of Texas.

A (96:13)

What's their justification for that?

B (96:15)

They didn't have one. And literally, Senator Kohlkir, who's a badass Texas girl born and raised, was like, basically, are you shitting me right now? Let me. Let me just make sure we understand what's happening. Happening is the American Heart association sitting before me today. I thought I had seen it all. But I just want to clarify. Are you sitting before me today saying that you think we should leave Coke and Twinkies and soft drinks and ultra processed foods that are known to cause obesity and chronic disease on our welfare system program programs? And their answer was yes. Now here's what's wild. If you look back at who are the major funders of the American Heart Association. It turns out it's Coca Cola, Pepsi, and all of these major food industries. So I texted all this to Joe and Joe talked about it on the air. And the American Heart association redacted its statement, publicly apologized and said it was a misstep.

A (97:16)

Joe will chase down a bone if you get his attention.

B (97:19)

I know he'll get his teeth on that thing.

A (97:21)

Shake it to.

B (97:22)

He's the man. But where I'm going with this is the hope is podcasts. The hope is free thinkers. The hope is people realizing that this whole system is not what they've told us it is.

A (97:34)

If we don't think, though, that these industries don't recognize that there are free thinkers out there and will do everything they can to try to either create, pop up, collude, and influence those that may have started off as free thinkers. Like, they get it. Yeah, like, so go to politics, which I don't study much at all. I think for the first time, this type of medium had an immense impact on the electoral outcome of the 24 election.

B (98:01)

I agree.

A (98:02)

I think there's a variety of reasons that Kamala didn't go on Joe's show, probably for her benefit. I don't think that would have helped her politely. But I think the Democratic Party is now going, okay. We missed the ball that in 2024. Newsom's got a podcast now. I personally, I have no data to support this. I think he'll be the front runner in 28, but feels that way. They're going to get into that ecosystem. They're going to establish the same relationships. And it's so funny. I've seen this so many times. The Democrats are upset that they don't have their own Joe Rogan. Joe, by his own words, words was more left leaning until the. What he considered to be the Democratic Party went farther left than he was comfortable with. But they'll figure it out and they'll get into that ecosystem. And that's where it gets murky. Yeah, they pay it. I mean, they're not dumb.

B (98:52)

Well, we caught them. We caught industry on its heels because they thought that these senators would just vote in their favor. And the only real big lobby that showed up in the Senate was the American Heart Association. And they got exposed.

A (99:05)

Yeah.

B (99:06)

And got dismantled. And the senators voted 32 to 0 in favor of the bill.

A (99:12)

Now, how did fundraising the next year?

B (99:15)

Yeah. And then what happened is industry descended upon the state of Texas. Really? When we went to the congressional side, there were 15 lobbyists for industry waiting all day. And then they, it went from, we have all the votes. This is going to get pushed through so easy. We're golden to do. Can you come back, can you come back to the House and start meeting with congressmen and Congress? We're going to lose, we're going to lose this bill. Industry has pivoted everyone's minds. It got so dirty. It was the most fought. Like they, they said it was the most con like contention they've ever had. And in any bill they've ever passed is these food bills. And they're like, are you kidding me? You, you would think common sense would be like, hey, dude, we're on a chronic disease crisis crisis. We're paying for all of these people's Medicare, Medicaid programs. We know that all this is causing chronic disease. We're not removing dollars, we're removing poisons and giving you the dollars to spend on healthy things and trying to prioritize your diet towards healthier alternatives. And dude, when you saw industry descend, I mean, I'm talking H E B Buc Ees like big conglomerates that I love, man, growing up in Texas, Coca Cola, Dr. Pepper, all of them have lobbying groups and they're in the shadows. They don't come up there and say, I'm blah blah blah, representing Coca Cola. No, Coca Cola wants to hide back here and move their strings and move their little drones into position. And all these lobbyists, they lobbied hard and it was a dog fight.

A (100:50)

Here's a new law. You and I can co sponsor this. And I don't even know how laws work, but I like this. And I've thought about it for about three seconds, so feel free to holes. Lobbyists are fine, but all meetings have to be in a room that records audio and video and it's immediately transmitted to the Internet real time.

B (101:05)

I love it. I love it.

A (101:07)

Talk to the lobbyists all you want to, but guess what? No closed doors, no bullshit. Anytime you meet with a lobbyist, it's transmitted to the Internet for all to see. You want to change some shit, there you go.

B (101:16)

And then you what you learn too. What you're saying is spot on. Because what you learn is there's a lobbyist who's been there 20 years who may be really tight fight with 10 Republicans, right? And all Coke does is they go hire that lobbyist and they give him the talk track. And then that lobbyist has built 20 years of trust and rapport. I can't compete with that as a citizen testimony, I'm walking in blind. I don't know that, you know, congresswoman or congressman, blah blah blah, is buddies with xyz, who's now hired gun for Coca Cola. Right. I have no line of sight into that until, until they testify. And then you dig in and you go, okay, who's this lobbyist? Okay, who funded him? And then as you pull, peel back the layers to the onion, it's usually a shell company. And then who funded that shell company or that PR firm? Oh, that PR firm's owned by Monsanto. Right. I uncovered that over and over and over. I'm doing investigative journalism so that I can dismantle the people I'm testing if I get testifying against. And I quit writing speeches because I realized speech is a waste of time. Time. You're going in there and the congressman or congresswoman is attempting to set a trap to have their viral moment that they can push out to show their lobbying group that they backed them. Right. And so instead I would wait for them to say their bullshit narrative and I would just research. What is the lobbying group going to say? They're going to say a food desert. That's their only offense on this. If you do this, you're going to create a food desert. And I live in a poverty stricken minority area and you don't know anything about being a minority or living in a poverty stricken area. I actually do. I grew up in a foster family with five or more foster kids. Most of those kids were minorities. And we did use the governmental assistance program to feed like our family members. This was part of like the system we grew up in. And guess what? Everybody became diabetic and obese. And don't tell me a food desert. Cause I actually googled your house before I came in here and I know you live one mile away from a bus stop and.05 miles away from an HB. So if you can walk to the bus stop, you can walk to the H E B. Like these are all smoke screens that you're being fed by industry in an effort to kill a bill that you know will save lives. So I'm in the middle of telling.

A (103:32)

While in an elected position that's supposed to serve the people that actually elected you to that office. Yeah, that's the rub to me where I'm like, you know, again, back into conspiracies. Totally not related to this. But the epine stuff, right? Like why won't anything get released? And people say, well, what if it were to grind the wheels of the government to a halt and we had to restart. I'm like, I am all for that.

B (103:54)

Yeah.

A (103:54)

Burn it to the ground then if that's where we're at, if we have.

B (103:57)

To rape children to run our government, we got a problem, dude. Like, are you kidding me?

A (104:02)

And I don't know what's in it is crazy. And I don't know what's in there. And I don't know if we'll ever see him. I doubt that we ever will, but that's people. Like, well, you know, there's people, people, everything on both sides. And we could never continue with our current direction and course. Like, good. Because if that's what we had to do to get to here, then we need to stop immediately. I'm all for that. Let's rebuild. Yeah, we'll be okay. We'll survive. But not if people keep doing that stuff.

B (104:22)

Yeah. Well, my hope is. Is clearly is honestly podcasts, it's voices like, you, like, Joe, like, all these platforms that give today still allow free speech, right? I know. They deplatform us. I. I know from YouTube. YouTube analysis of, like, some big podcasts I've been on. They're like, tricks don't lie. Yeah. They're like, dude, we got into it, and. And literally, I mean, I can tell you, like, Jillian Michaels called me and was like, I don't know what, dude. She's like, it doesn't make sense.

A (104:50)

Yeah.

B (104:51)

You were headed to be my biggest podcast I've ever done. When we were digging into this, it blew up. I was approaching millions, and then it just disappeared. Dropped from the face of the earth. And she's like, it. We got shut down on YouTube. YouTube, like, because we were getting into big pharma, PBMs, all of the pharmaceutical conglomerates, all of this stuff, and Joe and Tucker and some of these huge platforms, I think they can push through the noise.

A (105:16)

They can now. But the problem is those platforms are also beholden to profit as well. And I think, you know, like, Joe would be a tough one to silence, but Joe uploads to the same place that almost everybody does. YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Libsyn, whatever backend he may use. And you're uploading, although you're paying for it, depending on the platform. It's at the liberty of those that control that platform. There is a way, and I have thought about this, where those voices could actually be throttled if not shut off. And then I don't know. I don't know what happens.

B (105:52)

Well, look at what even Happened with Trump. When he had Trump on, he literally posted.

A (105:56)

Oh, that disappeared. It was like at 30 million views in, like, seconds after.

B (106:01)

That's where it's like. Like there's just some.

A (106:03)

That's what I'm saying.

B (106:04)

It is shady, man. And if we lose free speech, like, as cliche as that sounds, it's the truth, man. If they, if they shut down, the, the last beacon on the Hill of truth is this format that I can. I mean, even Fox News, cnn, msnbc, like, they're all jaded in their own ways. Like, we know the. We know the left has captured a lot of that and we know the right, you know, Fox is going to lean. Right.

A (106:29)

Yeah.

B (106:29)

And they're biased in their own ways. Like, I mean, that's just how they're set up nowadays.

A (106:34)

If you look at the Internet, I mean, cloud services, stuff like that. Again, it goes back to these really small. A small number of entities that throw levers. I do wonder what would happen if. I mean, if all these, like, the behind the scenes, they're like, holy cow, like, this podcasting thing is actually getting out of control. We now need to control the. This.

B (106:57)

It.

A (106:57)

It. It is possible that they could censor and throttle the voices that they don't like. And I don't know what, as somebody who produces content, what, are you going to go create your own Internet? Your own YouTube? I mean, man, that's a.

B (107:08)

Well, they were doing it, think about it, until Elon bought Twitter. But then how long before Elon sells X? You know, he's. He's a business guy. At what point does he, you know, no, no pun intended, 10x x and freaking get out. Or, or, you know, he, he could be biased in his own ways and push an agenda a different direction depending on the way he's leaning. I don't get the feud between him and Trump now. Like, who knows?

A (107:34)

Little interesting Tiff, if you will.

B (107:37)

Yeah.

A (107:37)

I was wondering when those two were like, side by side, like, how long is this going to last before they have a disagreement that is irreparable?

B (107:45)

I know, I know. Oh, man, two big egos. You're like, oh, shit, dude, I hope it lasts. But I don't know.

A (107:53)

Well, I mean, there are people who wanna. They love censorship. And again, to me, the First Amendment is insane and how valuable it is, it's probably the reason why it's the first in the Bill of Rights. And then you got Trump saying burning an American flag is now a crime. And I don't know if I could stand there when somebody burned an American flag. But they have to be able to, to do it, you know, so it's like you see it on both sides. You're like whoa, whoa, whoa. Small scale maybe, but you can multiply that out and see where that leads to something that is way I get it. Gnarlier.

B (108:24)

All of it's scary cuz I, I mean and then I could say the.

A (108:30)

Aliens, the Tic Tac. We still haven't solved the Tic Tac.

B (108:32)

Yeah, that's where I hope that's where my mind's where yours is at. I'm like, I hope there's an adult in the room because right now whether I'm talking FBI, CIA, doj, epa, fda, you know, nih, all of these organizations are so corrupt and it's run by a bunch of people who are looking out for themselves.

A (108:50)

Well, what if there is an adult in the room but that adult realizes that it's actually it's been built. The machine is so built in self serving at this point that the adult actually can't control it or fix it. That's what keeps me scarier.

B (109:03)

Yeah, that's even scary. The genies out of the bottle.

A (109:06)

I mean I think at some level level that that's what happens. It becomes so big and it's so concrete and that you can try to get an adult into the room and that adult might try as hard as they possibly can to change it and then they accidentally end up shooting themselves in the back of the head twice. You know, which you better be careful with by the way. Going up against health care. Bring him. Found dead. Shot himself in the back of the head with a shotgun that was not found on the scene.

B (109:32)

Like oh yeah, yeah, I know know like there's. It is scary when you see what like how it. It's not like when we testified in front of at the federal level. Literally a week later hatchet job articles came out. And when we were on this was again about a year and some change ago, Joe started just pulling up on the podcast and we uncovered that it was like a PR firm from Monsanto that had funded the article. And it's like what should shock know.

A (110:00)

Morning Zoe.

B (110:01)

Got donuts. Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me so Dana. Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to.

A (110:27)

Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

B (110:31)

Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.

A (110:33)

T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

B (110:40)

So what are we having for launch? Dude, my work here is done with.

A (110:44)

24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers + tax and 35 device connection charge credit sending balance due to payoff earlier Cancel Finance Agreement iPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto PayPal taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklab Speed Test Intelligence.

B (110:58)

Data 1H 202025 is@t mobile.com they can pull levers man. Yeah, they can ruin your I can tell you right now there's if you look up my name the first thing that pops up is on a Google search is former Joe Rogan guest who's bashed the FDA humiliated with egregious FDA violations or some like that total hatchet job article funded Absolutely zero doubt in the article itself down the article it talks about about and Eli lilly now offering GLP1s for blah blah. It's clearly a and they they get all the data sets wrong. They're saying I recalled like 30000 vials or something. So we ship 6000 prescriptions a day and eight years we've had I think one recall and we recalled 32 vials and we got all 32 vials back and nobody was harmed. And it was a proactive recall because we were worried that somebody potentially missing labeled that was it.

A (111:55)

Yeah, that's actually responsible business.

B (111:58)

Meanwhile, Eli Lilly is literally getting hammered by the FDA because of a whistleblower because the FDA does not look at Lilly or big pharma facilities. There's over 2,000 major pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities that the FDA has not been in in five or more years. They've been in my building three times in 18 months. Okay. A whistleblower claimed that there was is two different things. Novo Nordisk got cited because there were what an a infestation of pests. They didn't say what it was Rats or whatever. They didn't say.

A (112:34)

And this is in a facility.

B (112:35)

This is in their sterile facility that makes their weight loss drug great and cat hair found in the sterile room awesome and improper storage techniques and sterilization procedure. Then you go to Lily who's the Other major manufacturer of a weight loss drug and Peter Peptide and a major, now I think probably the most powerful pharmaceutical company in America right now, a whistleblower. They come in, the FDA comes in unannounced and finds a girl barefoot in the sterile room, finds that they've destroyed records, all sorts of egregious allegations from the FDA in this review. And so you've got the two biggest companies out there and all of them have egregious activity. None of that makes national news. Why is that not all over the news? I'm a small relative in the grand scheme of the world. Pharmacy in Texas. And you're going to make this national news. And like to this day, somebody still pays to make it an algorithm. When you search my name and I'm like, who's funding this? Why? Why would this be the first thing that pops up? It's such a article.

A (113:40)

God. So what was it like being a device rep? Like, were you out hawking new news?

B (113:44)

Knees, man. Device rep was. Actually was a lot of fun. Totally different than drug rep. Drug rep becomes. I don't know how to say without just saying it. I'm not trying to sound sexist, but became a bunch of hot girls in short skirts bringing lunches and catering food. And you get 10 minutes maybe if you're bringing lunch, 10 minutes if you're not bringing lunch, 30 seconds to give an elevator pitch to a doctor. And that's what that job's like. Become med device. You are part of that surgical team. Like those surgeons. Become your boys, like they're your brothers. You're. You're literally there at 6am making sure all the sets are ready, knowing what surgical procedures are coming that day, making sure all of your instruments are sterile and ready to go and sterile decontam, pulling the sets, working with the nurses, sitting in the surgeries. You're using a laser point pointer to point out for some younger surgeons what to do.

A (114:40)

Really?

B (114:41)

Yeah. There's times they'll cancel a surgery if you're not there. And so, and I covered sports medicine, which was a blast because I'm getting to work with athletes, Texans players, Rockets players, you know, really cool stuff. And you're repairing acl, shoulders, knees, elbows, joints. But I also covered anything minimally invasive. So I did thoracic surgeries, brain surgeries, neurosurgeries, surgeries, like in the room for those things. In all of them, you scrub in. Yeah. And so it was. I was in surgeries from literally, I don't even know, 6am till 7 at night. I mean, it's a brutal job. But what a lot of people don't realize is as a med device rep, I'm not kidding you. I was making more than most of the surgeons whose surgeries I stood in.

A (115:24)

Really? Damn.

B (115:27)

I was 100 commission. And the way it works is you eat what you kill, is what they call it. So. So if I can go out and I can convert 30 hospitals to using all of my gear, all of my product, and befriend all these surgeons and be their guy, then I get paid commission off every implant, every device that goes in a body, every instrument, every, like, camera, you name it. Every disposable, every shaver blade, every saw blade. So like, candidly, this is 10 years ago. I, I was clearing $700,000 a year.

A (116:02)

That's awesome.

B (116:02)

As a device rep, it was crazy. And those guys worked their asses off and they do a great job and they are an integral part to that system. But then you take a step back and like, I did it different. I had over 6,000 products. So like when a clinician would go, hey, bring your pump in. I would go, dude, Dr. So and so, hey, I'm just going to tell you our pumps piece of, of. I wouldn't use it on my dog. And I built trust that way because I'm like, I've got 6,000 products. Let me sell you something that I believe in, not a piece of shit. Then the company would go, why aren't you selling the bag? We need you to sell the pump. We need you to sell this, we need you to sell that. But don't get me wrong. Surgical cells, you think that med. You think that pharmaceuticals are crazy. Dude, the surgical market is the wild fucking west. It's called trunk stock. You roll around with product in your trunk.

A (116:59)

No, you don't.

B (117:00)

That you bring into surgeries. And that product's not validation tested. To sit in a trunk in 110 degree Texas weather three months out of the year, but that's going in somebody's body. And then people also go, well, all this stuff's FDA approved. No, no, no, no, no. 90% of the shit in the operating room never had a human safety system study. And people go, well, then how did the FDA approve it? In the 80s, the FDA established the 510k approval process because of the lobby of the med device companies. What that means is if I can show you a like, product already existed in the market, I'm grandfathered in. I don't have to do a safety study. I can Bring it into the OR. So envision a rotary phone of the 80s. Okay. And now we move to a wireless phone at the house that's grandfathered in because there was already a rotary phone. Now we're at an iPhone 17 going into somebody's body.

A (117:52)

Because a rotary phone existed at some time.

B (117:55)

And there's. That is how 90% of the shit now is in the operating room. And so it's important because crazy happens. They make subtle changes to a drill or saw. I can give you a real world example. We launched these brand new badass high res cameras and we're in the body, but we never.

A (118:11)

They're like to like penetrate in the body and look at stuff.

B (118:13)

Yeah. You're doing a heart procedure.

A (118:15)

Okay.

B (118:15)

Right. And we're going to cauterize a vessel on the heart. And we're using HD cameras for the doctor, like a video game to look at the heart. And every time they hit the cautery to do the important, most important part of that procedure, the fucking camera would turn off in the middle of surgery. Dude. Because we never validation tested the fucking camera with all the shit that's in the or because the FDA never mandated it. So all this in the or we. A hip got recalled because every. This is a true story too. The first guy that filed the lawsuit, filed the lawsuit, I swear to God, because he was banging his wife and his hip was going.

A (118:57)

I would love to see the legal language how a lawyer described that in the act of.

B (119:04)

Ended up in a massive hip recall. And you're talking about putting people back under anesthesia and ripping out a total dude joint. I mean, and there are thousands of instances like this. Another example, this is the craziest of all. And I, I, I, I've said this on one other podcast. I think this is a true story. I was in a fucking surgery on a tiger at the zoo. And they were using all of our state of the art operating room equipment. And the companies had what's called loaner sets. And so if you needed a set, you can call up the company and you can either rent the set or if you have, if you own like a drill or saw or a shaver and it breaks, they will drop ship you a loaner while we repair your unit. Makes sense, right? Just like in any major like construction site. Right. So I'm looking and we're in the surgery and this shaver has like green tape on it and all this stuff. And at the end of the surgery, everything goes great with the tiger and I'm helping wash the set and turn it over and I just glance at serial number and I remember the green tape. Okay, jump forward. Three months later, I'm standing in a hospital in human surgery.

A (120:17)

And don't you dare tell me that.

B (120:20)

I noticed the orthopedic surgeon shaving this shoulder. And I noticed the green tape and I noticed that it's that model shaver. And I think, dude, I'm just for shits and grins, I gotta look at this serial number. And sure enough, it was the fucking same serial number as the one. The only reason I remembered it was like ending in like 69 or whatever. And so I was like, oh, 69. I'm like, holy fuck. This is the same shaver that was in a veterinary procedure literally 30 days ago. Now why is that important? The reason that matters is because there was also a series of outbreaks that occurred in hospital systems while I was a device rep. And it was a rare form of pseudomonas, which is a, almost think of it, think of it like staph or any of that. It's like there are variations of this shit that can jump from humans to animals and animals to humans. And they call it the, the mythology of the myth of clean dirt. Even though we clean out a shaver and put it in an autoclave, which is an oven, and we cook it at 2000° for a certain amount of time, and then you take it out, you're cooking tissue into the shaver. At some point in these canulated devices, tissue will get gunked up in there. And once you've autoclaved it, once you've now baked in leftover residual tissue of the previous patient into the cannulated device. And this happens every day, all day. And people don't know. Now when I go into the next surgery, I'm pulling water through this cannulator of the shaver that is cross contaminating potentially if you don't kill the bacteria. And then when you get a super strand of of bacteria that is resistant to the autocave, it can create an outbreak. And we had an outbreak that people died like. And the question becomes, how long is this ticking time bomb going to happen before somebody gets infected with something crazy that was able to jump species? That shit happens every day, all day, dude. When we were in surgeries, they're jamming rap music, we're cracking jokes, the ner, the doctor's flirting with the nurses.

A (122:30)

Meanwhile there's just somebody with a tube down their throat and up their noses.

B (122:33)

Just 100%, dude. And I'm not Kidding you. Like, if a dude has a limp dick that's like big. Nurses call. They'll call in the other nurses. They'll call. They like, if somebody shits themselves, it's code brown. I don't remember what they would call it, their code word for like, this dude's got a hog. Like, come look at this dude's hog. The guy would probably. And that was pretty.

A (122:55)

I might appreciate it.

B (122:56)

Nobody cared if it was guys. They were very strict with women, though. I will say that. That, like, they were very strict. Like, nobody in the room. The female nurses are like, get the out of here. We're about to ungown her. Like, nobody's allowed in this room.

A (123:08)

But with dudes, Hogs gone wild dudes.

B (123:10)

The nurses are like, come look at this dude's dick.

A (123:13)

Like, it's so hogs gone wild in the or. That's sexist.

B (123:19)

Yeah, that is so the OR was the wild west. But it was fun. It was fun, man. And in back to your story, like, this is the last thing I'll share and they'll shut up. You brought up about money. Money. I had a friend. You got to understand, these guys who go to be surgeons, they don't come out of fellowship till their early 30s, sometimes mid-30s, a million dollars in debt. They think they're going to get paid these big huge incomes, then they get paid. It's a lot of money. I'm not sure, like 350, 400 grand a year to be a salaried employee of the hospital system. But now they're captured. Now they have no rights. They've got to hit their surgical volumes or you can never pay a clinician on the value or volume of their referral. That's what healthcare law says. But you can salary them and fire their fucking ass if they don't hit their volume metrics. And so these guys are trying to crank out surgeries so they can climb the ranks, so they can make a bigger pay. They're captured in a system where they don't really have a say. So they're put under immense pressure. Pressure. You didn't do any ACLs. All you're doing is a bunch of meniscus. These meniscus surgeries don't bill and collect what we need. We need more ACLs in here. So then they're out there, you know, looking for ACL surgeries. And if you get to a point where it's a borderline surgery, maybe not surgery, maybe rehab, maybe. Of course they're not going to like, stem cells of course they're going to tell you stem cells are bullshit because to a hammer everything's a nail. And to a hammer that's incentivized to be a hammer hammer, they gotta find a nail. And so my buddy, it was like the Rockets team surgeon, high level guy, you know, 40 years old, still barely at a point where he was about to pay off his debt. Right. After years of being a high flying surgeon, he's just now paying off his debt. Then all of those guys make the catastrophic mistake of marrying a nurse or marrying a scrub tech or somebody in the ocean or. And I, and I'm not anything against nurses or scripting. It's just very incestuous. And then they all work long hours. It's known that nurses have the highest rate of cheating of any profession.

A (125:25)

Really?

B (125:25)

100? Yeah. Yeah. Nurses have the highest rate of cheating of any profession. Like it's crazy because they're working long hours, they're away from their family, you know, and now this good looking surgeon's telling them everything they want to hear. And then it leads to, you know, office flings that then lead to divorce.

A (125:42)

Some other dude's hog. I mean.

B (125:44)

Yeah. And in the other chance of where I'm going with this is a lot of these doctors and surgeons end up there's like a 65 or 70 divorce rate way higher than the standard. That's wild. And they lose half of everything and they get alimony and child support and all that stuff in their 40s. And now they're really under pressure because now they're like, well, I've got this mansion, I've got to pay spousal support, child support support. I'm broke again at 40. I spent my whole life getting here.

A (126:10)

And they're locked in.

B (126:11)

And now I got to do a bunch of surgeries for the next 30 years. And now they're jaded and they're bitter and they're frustrated and it's not their fault. The system is a beat down, dude. It's a beat down. It's a. I bet if we did satisfaction surveys on surgeons, doctors, I mean all of them are fighting a real fight, like emotionally, mentally, it's just a beat down.

A (126:37)

If are you. Would you do. I mean, I know you guys at ways are pushing hard, like in the advancement side, are you restricted from doing what you would want to be doing? Like as an example, I know there's a different type of stem cells. If you go Tijuana example or crossing some borders, would you be able to do more than you are currently doing right now if you weren't restricted from doing. Doing so.

B (127:00)

Yes, I think so. The Tijuana versus what we're doing here thing is a little bit confusing. Do we have the time for me to break it down? Yeah, okay, I would love to break it down. No, that's where it's kind of misleading.

A (127:13)

Okay, yeah.

B (127:13)

So the real answer is the goose that laid the golden egg and in the future of stem cells is going to be identifying this subset of MSC's Meenal signaling cells that are called muse cells. Muse museum cells are a tiny subset of the phenotype of MSCs that have this unique trait that allow them to differentiate. What does that mean? It allows them to become something. Okay, so if we could take and isolate muse cells and clone those cells and program those cells, which is getting really techie and advanced, then in theory we could regrow a tendon. In theory, you could target it to.

A (127:54)

Do what you wanted.

B (127:54)

Correct.

A (127:55)

Okay.

B (127:55)

So what we're doing today is no different than what in Panama or Antigua or any of those places.

A (128:04)

It's outside of the US People are going.

B (128:06)

So the difference between what they do and what we do, healthy birth, healthy mother, pre planned C section, that's universal. Umbilical cord derived stem cells or placental derived stem cells. Same same exact thing. We then take the healthy birth, healthy mother, pre planned C section, take all that discarded after, after birth, run it through a rigorous process where 1 out of 10 discarded birth tissues makes it through the final process in a lab that's ISO certified, highest level, process it for any contaminants, and then basically extrapolate out all of those extracellular goodies, those building blocks that the baby and the mother were using during pregnancy. Same thing that they do there. Here's the difference. They then take that, and they take it one extra step into cloning or expanding the cells in a petri dish. And their argument is, we're giving you billions of these CELLES in the U.S. you're not allowed to clone or manipulate a human cell.

A (129:06)

So you have what you have.

B (129:07)

So you have what you have. And my argument against that is it's not against it or for it. At the end of the day, in medicine, the most efficacious dosage is the minimal dosage required to elicit the desired response. Response with a minimal side effect profile.

A (129:23)

Makes sense.

B (129:24)

So if we can use what God in nature gave us, biology gave us, evolution gave us, and systematically implement it at a 90 plus percent success rate, why would I pay five times as much for cloned, manipulated, adultered cells. Expanded cells. They're expanding the cells artificially to hit you with more of the cells. And so here's how I break it down for people non scientifically through an analogy. If we're gonna build a building, it's the same thing you and I were talking about earlier. Our body is lacking the raw elements to heal and cure itself. If we're gonna build a building, we need bricks, we need mortar, we need concrete. We also need the blueprint and a game plan. And the workers. If we have all those things, we can build a building. MSCs, mesinkable signaling cells. They don't differentiate. 99% of them lack the ability to differentiate. They're not a muse cell. So if we go back 20 years ago, the reason people were saying what they're doing there is important and better is because we thought those cells did become something. We did. We thought they became the acl. We now know they don't. They're nothing more than a signal that triggers your body and says, hey, there's damage. Over, over here your body cells show up. These cells transfer their mitochondria into your older, weary cells. And for a four to six week time frame, your cells are young cells again. But it's beyond the mscs. You need the other raw elements to build the building. You need the extracellular vesicles, the exosomes, the cytokines, the MRNA messenger cells that are telling your cells you're young again. That's the blueprint. All of those are in what we're giving you. What they're doing is just extrapolating out and multiplying these MSCs, which is like me delivering 10 times the amount of concrete to the construction site and then going, yeah, it's going to heal faster. No, the body can only physiologically heal at a certain set point. Right. It's not magic, it's medicine. And biologically, your body can only heal so, so fast. And so I am not against at all what they're doing. I think there are benefits, especially when we're talking about things like Alzheimer's or things that are more like, require more consistent therapies. Because what we are limited by here in the United States is the volume. Right. I can only push so much volume of fluid into your body. Right. So we would have to take some plasma out to be able to get into enough in, in you intravenously.

A (132:03)

Oh, interesting. Okay.

B (132:04)

Does that make sense to try to treat something like Alzheimer's? Right. But none of us are indicated for Alzheimer's, we're not. They're not even overseas. Nobody has an indication. That being said, like, I just talked about this on Joe. My buddy's dad flew in and I treated him for free just to help him because he's a friend. And we did stem cells, we did hyperbaric, we did peptides, we did a three day treatment. He did red light. They're brilliant people, Psychologists, academia. The mom was a mega skeptic. Day three, she came in, tears in her eyes, and hugged every one of us and literally said, thank you. Last night, I had my husband back. For the first time in years, I had my husband back. We laughed, we cried. He was himself again. I don't know what you people are doing. I don't even pretend to understand it, but if all we get from this trip down to Austin, Texas is last night, it was worth its weight in gold. And thank you. And like, we had a kid out of Dallas who heard me on Rogan and his mom calls and was like, we've been saving up to go to Puerto Rico or not. Puerto Rico, Panama, Y. We've saved up $30,000. Our son is in a wheelchair. He has a rare form of muscular dystrophy. This is all we've come with. Up, up with. Could you even do it for that? And I'm like, ours are $4,500, but I'll do it for free because we've never treated this. And look where I know it works. Where I would fucking sign on the dotted line 10 out of 10 fucking times. I am unbelievably confident. Knees, shoulders, elbows, spine, neck vertebrae, any of these soft tissue injuries, orthopedic related injuries, depending on how severe they are. If we're talking partial tears, we will heal it.

A (133:50)

Like you said, it's not magic, it's medicine. Yeah. It's like, hey, I completely blew out all of my cls in my knee. Like, yeah, okay.

B (133:57)

Yeah, yeah. And. But this, this kid came down with this rare form of muscular dystrophy. And I, I couldn't take their. I'm like, obviously, I'm like, this is so fringe. This is not our wheelhouse. This is not what we do. This is not what I want to be with. Candidly, like, because it's just. It's so out of our depth.

A (134:13)

Yeah.

B (134:14)

But we treated the kid for free on us. And this kid can now walk 18ft. And his mom's done a testimonial and she talked about how every doctor told her there was no hope and that she was Going to save up all this money to go to Panama. And we did it for free. And the kid can walk 18ft. And my point is we are barely scratching the surface. It's not that we're some saints at wastewater. I think what they're doing in Panama is amazing. I think what they're doing in Mexico is amazing. Amazing. I think that these biologics are the future of medicine. And I think the more we can open the ability to test here on American soil with like the proper checks and balances, we could do some really amazing things with muse cells. And that's, to me, the future. Taking these subset of MSCs that we could create like little soldiers, little special. The way it's interesting because Dr. White frames it as he's British and he's like, if you look at MSCs, they're like the general foot soldiers of the army. And he's like, but the muse cells. The muse cells are your special forces. And if we can put an elite level soldier in the body to heal the body with the right guidance and instruction, we could get a lot more done with these mu cells than we are with all of these foot soldiers. And it's like, it makes sense. And he's so brilliant and he can break it down.

A (135:40)

First off, British people, I think they could read an ingredients. They just come off British and Aussies. How far off do you think you are from being able to manipulate those mutas if you had to guess so. Or is China already doing that with Chris?

B (135:53)

Oh, I guarantee you, I feel like they're making like they're 100 already doing it.

A (135:57)

Huge gorilla dicks on people and all sorts of stuff over there.

B (136:00)

They're 100 already doing it, Damn it. Yeah, because there's a book called Hacking Darwin and so he breaks down crisper China. So the difference between Arnold Schwarzenegger And Albert Einstein's 20 IQ points, really, we can edit your jeans today with crisper to be more than 30 IQ points different.

A (136:18)

Jesus.

B (136:18)

Not yours, but your offspring.

A (136:20)

Oh, no, I'm cooked. I'm room temperature.

B (136:21)

Yes. Yeah. So we could take. We could literally. And you could even take. You. Essentially what they're doing. Doing is. I don't want to use the word cloning, but they're also expanding these eggs and they take the best sperm, the best eggs. They create these embryos and then they expand upon those embryos and we can go three, four, five generations down where you're essentially raising a fifth generation grandchild that had the best of your genetics, the best of your Wife's genetics merged into one, then extrapolated down the chain of command to increase intelligence. Each generation leapfrogs, jumps forward.

A (136:57)

Wow.

B (136:57)

And so China's already doing that. China's definitely already doing that. And they already got busted with one where I can't remember what they were talking. It was like they, they were claiming that they were trying to edit out like a resistance to malaria or some, or HIV. Sure they were, but we accidentally boosted their IQ points by 20. And it's like, okay, I mean, I.

A (137:19)

Want us to be cutting edge. I also don't, I don't want, I mean a tool is a tool. There's going to be malicious actors out there. Like, I get it, but man, I want the US to be on the cutting edge of what is possible. And the only thing, and this is people, I'll get hate for saying this. The only thing that I don't want though is to be at a place where people feel like they don't have to do anything themselves and they can just rely on that. It's like you can't be a sack of shit and be saved by ways to wells or these other. You can. If you get all of this money and you spend this treatment and you go back to the couch and you're 100 pounds overweight, you can, you can out eat any training program or something. It's.

B (138:01)

And that's the biggest issues we've had.

A (138:03)

You still have to work.

B (138:05)

The people who haven't gotten the results are, I mean, candidly, like the worst clients. Some of, not some of the most challenging clients have been like washed up retired WWE guys. I don't want to say washed up like retired WWE guys who are banged up and on opioids and drinking alcohol and partying. And I'm like, you're only as good as the vessel. If we have a young, healthy 35 year old UFC fighter who's dialed in on their diet, lifestyle, nutrition, and they get a partially torn rotator cuff and we hit that rotator cuff, those heal 10 out of 10 times. Like they will kill heal because their vessel is primed and they know their body. But if you give me a 65 year old, you know, guy popping pain pills all day and drinking beer all night, those are all inflammatory markers. Those are all distracting to those cells. Those cells are going elsewhere. And then are we burning off a bunch of MSCs trying to bring down gut inflammation and brain inflammation and all the other things because they will pierce the blood brain barrier. And that's the other crazy Thing like there's. There's also all sorts of benefits for potential brain health. We now have people like Cam Haynes was an example. He came in and we were helping him with an injury for his knee. But we also had him. What's the word? I have a brain fart. Brain freeze, Breathe in the stem cells. And the next day he ran his fastest mile time he had ever run in his life.

A (139:33)

Like nebulized stem cells.

B (139:35)

Nebulize the stem cells. That was the worst. Jesus. And he.

A (139:37)

I don't even know why I know that.

B (139:38)

I know. I'm impressed. He literally ran his fastest mile time at 50 something years old that he had ever run in his life. And Joe's like, did they work? And he goes, you know, dude, I don't know what to say. If they like, I can tell you this. I ran my fastest mile time at 50 something years old. So something worked.

A (139:55)

We have to put an asterisk by that. He's performance enhancing.

B (139:58)

Yeah, yeah. And so I just view all of these as like tools in the tool belt that aren't that a lot of times your primary care and academia don't know about because they're trapped in the confines of the insurance model. And there's a ton of great companies out there and if we can help prime the body and optimize the body to heal itself. The body does amazing things. Like our bodies are phenomenal at responding to stimuli positively or negatively.

A (140:26)

Yeah, it's fricking wild. I mean, you can be if you want to. You could be just a full scientist all day long. And there are so many metrics of ways that you can look under the hood a little bit, whether it's, you know, measuring your HRV or messing around with the temperature of the bed that you sleep on or mouth tape or like the digital wearables that like, can bombard you with information. I mean, you could fully nerd out if you want to.

B (140:47)

Yeah.

A (140:47)

I do recommend people still go live their lives and also, like, go have a good time, make some bad decisions, really, in your life. You know what I mean? Live life. Because again, if you could live to 100, but you had to do it in a sterile room and you didn't go get to experience anything.

B (140:59)

No, I view it as like autopilot. What I'm envisioning is in a few more years, it's on autopilot. You don't have to go to a primary care. We're tapped into your wearable. You're getting a push message. We're monitoring all of your diagnostics and it's there. We're on board, like helping make sure that we drive and, and spur your health span while minimizing catastrophic events.

A (141:21)

Yeah. Talk to me about the AI you guys use. I haven't had a chance to interface with it yet because I haven't done the blood draw through you guys, which I guess is a requirement to do so one of these days.

B (141:29)

Well, no, we're pivoting that too.

A (141:31)

Okay.

B (141:31)

Yeah, yeah, that'll be.

A (141:32)

So I haven't, I haven't had a chance to utilize it, but I've seen some examples from other people, but it seems to be fascinating.

B (141:37)

Yeah. So the premise is you just get you. What would happen in our traditional model is we'd pull the blood work and then a clinician would get on the phone with you for 45 minutes and deep dive into over 70 biomarkers and what that means physiological. And then you'd get a follow up email kind of bullet pointing out all of those things. And then inevitably, 10 out of 10 times you're going to have a million questions.

A (142:03)

Oh yeah, not during the call.

B (142:04)

Yeah, it's afterwards, during the call, no questions. Then your meds come in, you're like, wait, what am I taking? Why am I taking this? What does this do? What about this? Well, I have a family history of this. Well, what about that? Well, what about this? So the premise was, I want a clinician in your pocket 24 7. I want the best and brightest minds there as a resource to answer your questions, to pull from your medical records, to pull from your blood work, to answer your questions, backed by the chart and information that the clinician has loaded in. But then what's happened? As it's evolved, we've realized one of the challenges is making this cost effective for people and driving down the cost of care. My most expensive resource is paying clinicians. If I can expand the touch of a clinician through large language models and artificial intelligence, I can drive down the cost of care. My goal is for this to end up being like 30 bucks a month and you get all of it. You get the wearables, you get the peptides, you get the consults, you get the blood work, you get everything. But to do that, I've got to expand and grow. We're at 75,000 patients nationwide. You know, when I get to a million and large language models are running 90% of the day to day day. And so you text me at one in the morning and this will happen all the time. I've Got die hard military guys that are texting me at 5am when they get up and then I've got comedians that are texting me at 2am when they're hammered. And then I've got everything in between.

A (143:31)

Yeah.

B (143:32)

And I'm not even the doctor, I'm just the owner of the business and my doctors are getting all that and my nurses are getting all that and then they don't just tell, they text me, they text the nurse, they text the doctor, they message us on Instagram. And all of this creates a black hole that is draining my team's bandwidth and time. So the premise was 247 coverage, real time answers in your pocket. It can't be. I have to type something. I want to be able to. I'm dyslexic, so I'm like, you got to be able to talk to them.

A (143:59)

Which is like industry standard in a lot of stuff these days, especially with LLMs. Like, yeah, you got to be keeping up with the modern tech.

B (144:06)

Yes. And so ours is Alan, a large language model. He uses four different forms of LLMs. We, we pull from Grok, we pull from ChatGPT. But we build the moat of the knowledge. So the knowledge is us, the moat built around it is any advice he gives you is device advice loaded from us, not pulled from the Internet. And so Alan is there to be a resource practicing the ways dwell model and he can answer a question on any peptide on the market. So like one example, I mean we could, we could test him in here. I don't know.

A (144:37)

Go for it firework.

B (144:37)

See if we get. You'll get sell service in here. Yeah, let's go.

A (144:42)

What should we ask him about? Probably dick pills.

B (144:47)

Let's see. Waste it. Well, let me go to our website. And so right here, he's there on the website. You click that, he's going to dial in. And then now when you have the app, he's installed on your app and when you log in, he already knows you. He already has your medical records. He remembers what you were wearing the last time you did a, a call. He remembers everything you said in that call, charts it in the medical records, knows that if somebody was dealing with stress or erectile dysfunction or whatever the challenge is, he'll know all of that.

A (145:15)

Allow. And he looks like an alien, which we all hope is real.

B (145:20)

Can you hear me? It was muted. Let's see.

A (145:26)

He'S thinking, what's it?

B (145:27)

There we go.

A (145:28)

Yes, I can hear you perfectly fine. I'm Alan, which actually stands for advancing longevity Learning engine. I'm very real, at least in this dimension. What's your name? So I can properly address you.

B (145:38)

Watch this. Hey, I'm an existing patient, so let's cut the riff raff and get straight to the point. Is that cool? Because it's on the Internet. I gotta establish.

A (145:50)

Absolutely. Let's cut straight to the point. Great to meet you.

B (145:53)

A lot has changed in the last.

A (145:54)

Few months at Ways to. Well, to get started, we recommend doing a comprehensive updated blood work.

B (145:59)

Let's do this. Okay, man. Hey, let's cut to the chase. I've got a question. My primary care is scared to prescribe me testosterone. He's saying that he's worried it could cause prostate cancer.

A (146:14)

I think I might have missed something there. Since you mentioned you're an existing patient, what are some of the health goals or metrics?

B (146:22)

Hey, man, my primary care is worried about testosterone and is worried it'll cause prostate cancer. What are your thoughts on that? Can you tell me?

A (146:35)

That's actually a common misconception. The literature does not support the idea that testosterone causes cancer. In fact, studies indicate that testosterone may actually help reduce overall mortality.

B (146:46)

Dr. Morgenthaler has completely refuted the original.

A (146:49)

Study suggesting testosterone's role in cancer growth at Ways two.

B (146:53)

Well, we take testosterone optimization seriously because it's the website. He's gonna try and, like, go back to, like, energy and strength talking to you as a. Bringing you on as a patient. Start with comprehensive blood work to get. Hey, can we go unicorn mode? Let's spice this up. I don't know if this will work. When you have the app, it works and it'll let him cuss. It unlocks him where he's not gonna be professional, which is, yeah, we can go unicorn, you beautiful bastard. That about testosterone cause causing prostate cancer is complete garbage. There you go. But you get the gist. But what's wild is that incredible research. What else he can do is review your blood work. So you get off the call. You still have the call with the clinician. It's still available. You can choose a pathway where if you want to save money, the clinician will review your chart and spend 15 minutes looking over everything Allen's says and then certify it. He can't provide medical advice, but then Allen can do the call with you y and save you couple hundred bucks. Yeah, and then the goal is, as I build out my own blood lab and all these things again that I already had gone down that rabbit hole doing once before, I can drive that cost down because again, so many people go, well, I'm not Aaron Rogers. Well, I'm not Joe Rogan. I can't afford. I'm like, you can afford this. You're full of. What do you spend on a mattress? What do you spend on a car payment? What do you spend on your mortgage? These are things that you're living in. A few hours of your life, you were in this flesh vessel forever until the day you die. And I'm telling you, for 50 fucking dollars a month, basically, I can help you drive Hellspan. I can give you accessibility to answers to your questions. And in real time, we can assess, assess, evaluate, adapt, improvise, and overcome and help you drive your healthcare journey. And you're a. You're a driver alongside it. We're not there to say, hey, Andy, you got to get on testosterone and peptides. That's not how we run this practice. We are here to go, hey, Andy, your testosterone's. Here are the problems. Here are the pros. Here are the cons. Here's what academia says. Here's why some of these things are right. Here's why a lot of this is right, wrong. And here's what we think. What say you. You choose your path, and we got guys coming in going, hey, man, I want to get on this peptide because I want my skin to look bigger, better. So here, let me give you the pros and cons of that peptide. Let me explain your family history, choice. Yes. Yeah, it's not our job to be a gatekeeper. Yeah, that's my thing. That's my problem with the system, is doctors rule from this ivory tower where they want you to kiss the ring. And it's. And it's like, no, you've proven to me that you have a limited scope of knowledge in this niche. But I want to know all of this, and I want somebody to look at me holistically, not an endocrinologist to look at my endocrine system, and then a cardiovascular doctor to look at my heart, and then a neurologist to look at my brain. I want somebody to assess me holistically as one biological unit, which I am, and help drive all of those biometrics across all of these various aspects of my biology. And that's what we're trying to do. And I'm trying to bolt on and.

A (150:09)

Add as we grow that, to 50 bucks a month. I mean, let's be honest, that's five or six. Five or six trips to Starbucks. Yeah, that's. That's way less than one meal chosen to eat out in town, recouping that money elsewhere, that that's achievable and attainable for sure.

B (150:28)

Yeah, that's the goal. That's the goal. Right now, I think our. Our membership is like $600, but that includes two biannual blood work and your consults with the clinician. And Allen 24 7.

A (150:41)

Yeah.

B (150:41)

And the next generation of Alan goes back to. This is my effort to try and show people we're not even going to require you to do your blood work through us. I don't care where you get your fucking blood work. I don't care where you get your DEXA. I don't care where you get your VO2 data. Give me the data and use Allen and Allen's there as a resource. Now people go, well, how do you make money? I'm not selling you the app. How we make money is if you do decide to trust in us and buy a supplement from us or buy a compounded medication from us or a peptide from us. And my goal there, again, is to be the most cost effective in the country. And we are on peptides, on stem cells, on almost every one of these big ticket items. It isn't even close. Like, I'm by a mile, the cheapest. And it doesn't mean that it's still cheap. Like, unfortunately, the stem cell stuff's expensive. That's the most expensive thing we do. Yeah, but that's. You know, most of these peptides, like ghk, copper peptide, we know we have roughly one tenth of it in our body that we have in our teens. So you guys, like your age and my age.

A (151:44)

I've never even heard of this copper peptide.

B (151:46)

Oh, man.

A (151:46)

Is there actually copper in it?

B (151:48)

It's. It's. Yeah, well, copper is one of the elements that it regulates in the body, but it's a signaling cell. And ghk, copper peptide, it's like a. It's another. It runs parallel to bpc.

A (151:59)

Okay.

B (151:59)

But without causing angiogenesis, without the risk of cancer. And so for somebody who has cancer risk, we. We reach for the copper peptide. If you don't have cancer risk, I tell people, look, if budget's not an issue, BPC, GHK, and TB500, especially if you're battling an injury or inflammation. Chin, you stack those three. I mean, it's standby. Phenomenal.

A (152:22)

There's a reason why they call it the wolverine peptide. That's what my sister calls it.

B (152:25)

But what are you talking about? It's phenomenal. Yeah, but GHK is a Lot like that. It helps with tendon strength, ligament stain, ligament healing, skin elasticity. It literally is the signal that tells your cells you're young again and turns on youthful genes in the body. And so it declines as we age. And that's partially why we don't heal as much. And then we don't have as many MSCs as we, as we age. We have literally like a fraction of the amount of MSCs in our 40s that we had in our youth. And so if we hit somebody with stem cells, what everyone's calling stem cells, we're putting a plethora of all of these cellular building blocks back in your body that allow your body to heal like you're a kid again for a four to six week time frame. Then we continue that healing out by adding in peptides like GHK, TB, 500 BPC, IGF, LR3, testosterone. You know, even testosterone gets so nuanced. Like it's not testosterone sipionate for everyone. We have guys come in that are like, I've been on testosterone for 10 years, man. I know what I'm doing. I go to the best guy in the country and they put me on this and my free testosterone's 1200, or my total testosterone is 1200 and I'll go, good. What's your favorite free. Oh, I don't know. Okay, well, total testosterone is the guns and the bullets in the safe. Your free testosterone is the gun in your hand with the bullets in it. The only one that matters is the gun in your hand with the bullets in it, because you ain't making it to the safe before you need it. So how many bullets are in the gun in your hand and is it ready to go? That's your free testosterone. And as you be on, as you're on testosterone for an extended period of time, depending on, on whether you're taking sip or ananthate or propionate or a blend of all three that's time released. Like, these are all the things we can do. Because I own the pharmacy, I employ the chemists, we can create anything. So we create unique peptide blends, unique testosterone blends. And where I was going with that.

A (154:18)

Is it makes it user friendly too, so they're not drawing from multiple vials and just completely jacking up. Mixing. Oh, yeah, I put some little Dr. Pepper in this one.

B (154:27)

Yeah, exactly. And like, one of the things I'll break down for guys a lot, man, this happens so often. Guys who have been on testosterone for a while and think they've got it mastered, they'll I'll look at their free and I'll go look. Your free is way lower than your total and you are basically over utilizing testosterone to push your free to a level, to get a physio to push your total to a level, to attempt to get a physiological response out of the free free. We could titrate down your testosterone way lower and add in an anabolic testosterone like Anavar at a low micro dose. And Anavar will gobble up sex binding gobulin hormone, which is what's, think of it like a PAC man. SBGH gobbles up free testosterone, plummeting, you're free. So no matter how high you push your total, sbgh, if it's too high is just eating up all the free, taking away all your bullets and the gun. If we give you a product like Anavar, it binds with sbg8, shuts down those PAC men. You can lower your testosterone total and reduce your side effect, reduce the risk of, of conversion to estrogen, reduce all of this bloating, water retention, everything. And free up your free, giving you better sex life. Leaner muscle mass, lower visceral fat, less water retention. And there's, I mean there are a lot of practices out there that know this shit, but it's not that many. Yeah, I mean if I'm on is, it's probably less than 10%.

A (155:57)

Well, they may know it too, but do they have access to a facility or a compounding place that can create the tools that they want? They may be limited. You know, it's like a bookshelf. They're like, listen man, I got these books, you know what I mean? They might be limited by the tools they have in their hands.

B (156:10)

Well, and especially when you compare it to primary. This is what I was trying to break down the other day. If I'm a primary care, I reach for the tool in my case. Tool belt tool, my tool belt. You come in, you're obese, I reach for a GLP1. Okay, what's the problem with that? The problem with that is the GLP1s are a one size fits all approach patented by big pharma, monetized by the pharmacy benefit managers and insurance companies. What does that mean? They're going to push you to the highest dosage available to maximize the return on investment and the profitability. And if they want to get $1,300 a month off of Fat Joe Bob, who's diabetic, they're gonna push you to the highest dosage. If you come into Us, we're gonna look at you and go, hey. We're gonna microdose the GLP one to preserve lean muscle mass and bone mineral density. We're gonna stack it with an IGF LR3, insulin, growth factor hormone. Those two combined in clinical trials. We know because they're being tried right now by Big Pharma in an effort to try and patent what we've been doing for five years. Have 20% body mass loss and almost a hundred percent of its fat.

A (157:17)

Yeah. As opposed to you preserve all the.

B (157:19)

Muscle, all the bone mineral density. None of the gastroparesis, blindness, all the side effects you're seeing are because they're mega dosing.

A (157:30)

Yeah.

B (157:30)

Way too much of that that they don't need. And is creating this cascade effective issues. That is where I believe in personalized medicine. That is where I believe in compounding. That is where I believe we are strong. So fucking far ahead of the broken establishment. And it sounds like your sister's like way advanced because most primaries and like nurses and all that, in that traditional system, they don't touch this shit.

A (157:53)

She dove in, man.

B (157:55)

That's badass.

A (157:56)

I honestly think, you know, with that exposure to. For people don't know what hospice care is. It's basically end of life care. I think you do enough of that and you probably get to a place where you're like, you know, let's work the other end of this problem.

B (158:07)

Yeah.

A (158:08)

Not that you're not going to end up at hospice regardless. Life is a terminal event as far as I can tell. So we're all going to get. Get there. And she's just passionate about it. You know, she was ready for a shift and she's seeing.

B (158:17)

She want a job.

A (158:19)

Oh, I mean, I. I'll link you up with.

B (158:20)

We're hiring, we're expanding in all. What state is she in?

A (158:23)

California.

B (158:24)

Okay. Yeah, I'll link to 47 states in California is one of the states we're not. But I know we're working to get in California's tough days.

A (158:33)

What's the other two?

B (158:34)

I don't even remember now. I know we're in 47. It's on the website.

A (158:37)

Like Papua New guinea or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I'm aware that Papua New guinea is not part of the US people to freak out. But yeah, it's, you know, she gets to see the, the change in her patients, which I. Which I think. I mean, I'm speaking for her a little bit, but how cool is that? You're seeing a positive impact as opposed to only administering end of life care, which I never did it but it seems like your job is to ease the transition from.

B (158:59)

Dude, it's amazing. It's the most that like it is. I can't even tell you like how rewarding a situation. Like somebody like my friend's dad who came in and that story. Or even like jelly rolls. A client he's talked all about, we've helped him £200 without a GLP1. Not on a GLP1. Yeah, dialing in. Working with him on diet, lifestyle, nutrition, exercise.

A (159:21)

He's putting the work into.

B (159:23)

He's working his ass off.

A (159:24)

That's the guy.

B (159:25)

Works his ass off.

A (159:26)

And you have to people, I'm telling you. Like you said medicine, not magic. The stuff that we've been talking about for the last few hours. My worry is that people will say, oh cool, I don't need to do as much. It's like no, do more.

B (159:36)

Or they make excuses. Like I have a buddy, he's in great shape, but he's like, oh yeah, dude, I could be shredded too. If I was jelly roll and I had a chef and da da da. No, dude, you aren't up till 3am Putting on concerts. You aren't living on tour buses. Like try being on a tour bus up till 1am and then getting up and walking or running or trying to put a weight routine together and eating a bunch of pre plped meal plans when everyone's getting stoned and having a blast drinking beer all night. Yeah, like the level of discipline that it takes for him to do what he did is more impressive than an average Joe. Like because these average Joes can somewhat control their schedule more than he can. I promise you.

A (160:18)

Like £200. Like congratulations to you sir. I mean that is a monumental achievement. Yeah, that's crazy. I gotta get you outta here at some point to get on your flight, dude. Yeah, we could have talked for five more hours, dude.

B (160:32)

Thank you for having me on. Yeah. I'm telling you, we've said it and it's a, it's a full blown invite. Like you are welcome. I would love to come down. Yeah, I would love for you to come down and see what we do. I'd love to run you through some treatments. Like on me man. Come down, check it out. Like I just, I love sharing this with people and showing people.

A (160:51)

Yeah, I gotta bring my wife. She's getting to that age. The perimenopause, menopause. Like you want to talk about something that destroys women? Yeah, dude, what's the best way people can find you.

B (161:00)

Or it's.

A (161:00)

They were listening to what we're talking about. They're like, I need some of that action. Sorry, Kelly. Californians.

B (161:05)

Yeah, it's a ways the number two. Well, W-E-L dash L Ways number two. Well dot com. And, and then my social is just Brigham Bueller and we're trying to update Instagram all the time, share success stories, talk about what's coming out. And yeah, a lot, a lot of cool stuff. At the clinic itself, we call it the Longevity Lab, but we're doing hyperbaric red light DEXA, VO2 max, Eboo Plasma, Farida Thesis. Like anything cutting edge that is quantifiably, scientifically working, we will push the envelope with everything we do is not FDA approved. We are not in that world. We are here to push the envelope and be ahead. And so I think we're doing a lot of really cool cutting edge stuff. And yeah, if you want to check it out, all that's going down in Austin or Houston or the two facilities, but most of what we do is virtual. So from the comforter of your own home, we can send a mobile phlebotomist to your house, pull your blood. You can use Allen, the next generation of Allen that we're launching in two weeks. You can just load blood work.

A (162:08)

That's awesome.

B (162:08)

So even if you have blood work from your primary care now, we'll be limited by the amount of panels.

A (162:12)

Yeah, because you guys look for specific stuff, primary care.

B (162:15)

But if you have a robust panel from anybody else out there, we've got the last mile. Like you can bring anything from any one of these other telehealth companies loaded into Allen. And we're here to be a resource.

A (162:26)

And as somebody who has done blood draws, I go down to Missoula for LabCorp because they have the more. Well, you can order. It's the one that I can get the most panels on. And for anybody out there wondering how hard it is to get blood if you live near a major city at all, it's not hard to work with the lab, the LabCorp system to get that type of stuff. Yeah, it's. It's an easy trip. I think I'm in there like maybe five minutes and two thirds of that is the lady, like laughing at me like, oh, hey, what are you in here for?

B (162:48)

I'm like, yeah.

A (162:49)

And I look at all the vials, I'm like, leave some for me. I gotta drive home, you know?

B (162:53)

That's hilarious.

A (162:54)

Yeah, man. Well, cool.

B (162:55)

Man. Thank you so much for having me on.

A (162:57)

Hell, yeah.

B (162:57)

Appreciate you.