Cleared Hot Episode 416 – Dan Hull: The Journey to Rebuild After Losing the Brand He Spent a Lifetime Building

Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Dan Hull (Founder of OTB, shoe industry veteran)

Episode Overview

This episode spotlights Dan Hull’s extraordinary journey through the footwear industry—from honing his craft in historic New England factories, to working with iconic brands (Nike, Adidas, Reebok), creating innovative military footwear (OTB boots), and enduring painful business setbacks. Hull’s resilience is central: despite losing the original OTB brand after a buyout, he reclaimed the name and rebuilt, now spearheading a resurgent venture serving both military elites and civilian markets. The conversation dives deep into the entrepreneurial realities of manufacturing, brand building, and navigating American industrial challenges, while highlighting invaluable lessons on adaptation and grit.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins & Military Collaboration

• Learning the Trade: Dan grew up learning shoemaking in New England, working early with Nike and later Adidas and Reebok.
• Military Needs: Transitioned into military footwear when he discovered just how underserved the market was for high-performance boots. (03:41)
  • "Military is underserved. No one cares about their feet." – Dan Hull (01:41)
  • Commercial issue: Soldiers receive standard-issue boots but most (~75%) buy their own due to quality/fit dissatisfaction.

2. Manufacturing in America: Barriers and Realities

• Berry Amendment: All military-supplied textile goods must be U.S.-made, down to the fiber. This creates significant supply chain and manufacturing challenges, especially with outdated specs. (07:49–14:21)
• Industry Exodus: U.S. shoemaking largely moved overseas for cheap labor; domestic supply chains withered in the 70s–80s.
  • "If I go to Asia today for a new shoe, I have a hundred million suppliers around me... The supply chain used to be like that in the US. It ain't no more." – Dan Hull (13:23)

3. Rise and Fall of OTB (Over The Beach)

• Genesis: Developed OTB boots specifically for military over-the-beach operations, focusing on water drainage and rapid drying—addressing firsthand operator feedback.
  • "Listening to pole vaulters or military guys, it was always about little things—dry quick, waterproof leathers..." – Dan Hull (49:40)
• Acquisition by New Balance: After “bank of Dan” funding ran dry, Hull sold OTB outright to New Balance; despite high hopes, the acquisition led to delays, isolation, and eventual shutdown.
  • "We thought we had all these assets at our disposal—which we had none." – Dan Hull (53:50)
  • "We had a plan to hit 100 million. But production was a 3-year cycle. I was used to 3 months in Asia." (54:19)
• Devastating Outcome: New Balance shuttered OTB; Hull lost seven figures and, more painfully, years of relationship-building and sweat equity.
  • "Beyond the money, it was relationships that really killed me." (58:40)

4. Entrepreneurial Resilience & Reinvention

• Staying in the Fight: Hull consulted, built new designs for brands like Altama and Deckers (parent of Hoka, Ugg), constantly responding to demand from military and law enforcement.
• The Comeback: By leveraging old contacts and the rise in demand, he launched OTB 2.0.
  • Regained “OTB” trademark after New Balance let it lapse—cost: $250.
  • "Right place, right time." (66:41)
• Navigating Partnerships: Faced more partner conflicts and lawsuits but ultimately rebuilt the company with trusted allies and a tight, high-performing team.
  • Projected 2025 revenue: nearly $10 million in first year post-relaunch; plans to double within three years.

5. Product Innovation & Operator Feedback

• Signature Innovations:
  • Abyss Boot: First major ‘over the beach’ boot with bottom/strategic drainage, quick-dry leathers.
  • "T Cool" Shoe: Skate shoe-inspired, flat-soled, beloved by elite military for parachuting and aviation due to comfort and low profile. (77:03–78:48)
  • Altama Maritime Assault: Hull-designed, “Super Chuck Taylor” for water ops; ongoing royalties via licensing.
  • Incline Mid: OTB’s answer to dominate water/land cross-over footwear and compete with European favorites like Salomon.
• Fit is King: Emphasis on anatomical lasts for actual operator feet—wider, fuller fit for long rucks; multiple widths.
  • "The best shoe is the one that fits." – Dan Hull (94:03)

6. Industry Reflections: Made in the USA, Automation, New Challenges

• Manufacturing Headwinds:
  • Up-to-date U.S. production is hampered by obsolete government specs, lack of skilled labor, and limited modern machinery.
  • Automation is slow to catch up due to the craft-intensive work required (laser cutting is making some inroads).
• Regulatory/Purchasing Ironies:
  • “Made in USA” is often a loophole—brands send uppers overseas, assemble here, and slap on the U.S. label.
  • "No one wants to do that work here any more. ‘Bring the jobs back’... but no one really wants to do it." – Dan Hull (110:19)
• Entrepreneurial Wisdom:
  • Have a plan, trust your gut, but prepare for—indeed, expect—failure, pivots, and legal wrangling. Build your team wisely.
  • "Go with your gut. Spidey sense never fails. If you have the right team, you'll succeed." – Dan Hull (69:02, 69:57)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Berry Amendment, the Realities:
  • "We could make good boots in America—but only a few suppliers, and the specs are horrific."' – Dan Hull (13:23)
• On Highs and Lows of Business:
  • "For five years at Reebok? Great bonuses, money in the bank, holiday parties... last three years? A layoff every October." (26:02)
  • On losing everything with OTB: “I’d bet the farm, my 401k… it was literally down to the wire. The day I signed that deal [with New Balance], the bank came to take my house.” (69:02)
• Entrepreneurial Grit:
  • "If you want to do something, just get a plan. Pair that with a willingness to continue working regardless of what happens." – Andy Stumpf (118:10)
• On Kanye West:
  • "I spent 3 weeks with him—when he’s one-on-one? 90% fine. But he wavers." – Dan Hull (28:05)
  • "I still haven’t been paid… I sent him a few invoices." (32:27)
• On Product Testing:
  • "I won’t put anything out that hasn’t been tested by guys themselves." (60:35)
• On Industry Nostalgia:
  • "The Nike Waffle Trainer—back in the day, cutting it open to see how it worked… that was what pulled me in." (96:19)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:43–07:55 — Military’s boot procurement, Berry Amendment, how OTB started
• 08:21–21:07 — Dan’s background: New England shoe industry, Adidas, Reebok, innovation cycles
• 26:02–32:27 — Highs and hard lessons at Reebok, layoffs, pivot to founding OTB
• 46:36–53:39 — Genesis of OTB, Navy/SEAL involvement, product development for elite forces
• 53:50–58:40 — OTB sells to New Balance, delays, loss of brand, personal and professional fallout
• 61:31–65:07 — Dealings with Deckers (Hoka/Ugg), product reinvention, relaunching OTB
• 66:41–71:34 — Regaining the OTB trademark, bootstrapping the comeback, effective marketing (geo-targeted ads, Instagram)
• 77:03–79:27, 94:03–96:17 — Deep dive: “T Cool” shoe, design for operators; fit is everything
• 110:19–112:33 — Manufacturing labor, automation’s slow disruption, industry-wide challenges
• 118:10–120:10 — Lessons learned, advice for entrepreneurs, closing thoughts

Further Resources

• OTB Boots – otbboots.com
• Instagram: @otb_boots
• Altama Maritime Assault, Aku boots, Hoka, and other referenced brands
• Deep-dive on the Berry Amendment, U.S. military footwear procurement process

Final Takeaways

• Hull’s story is a classic for entrepreneurs: relentless adaptation, painful failures, hard-won victories, and a refusal to quit.
• OTB’s success was (and is) built on listening deeply to customers—especially “operators”—and never compromising on fit, function, or testing.
• American manufacturing faces systemic hurdles; innovation is required as much in business models and regulation as it is in product design.
• Building and rebuilding a brand—and a life—requires not only skill and luck but trusting your instincts and picking the right team for the fight.

Closing Quote

"There are hurdles along the way, but if you’ve got a plan—as I tell my kids—you can do anything. Really. Get a plan and follow it."
— Dan Hull (117:57)

Listen to this episode for tactical lessons on gear, business, and the mindset it takes to keep rebuilding—plus plenty of footwear geekery for the insiders.