Cleared Hot Podcast | Episode 417

Guest: Dr. Tony Dice
Host: Andy Stumpf
Date: November 24, 2025
Title: The Journey From Navy SEAL to Meth Addict to World Class Counselor

Episode Overview

This candid episode chronicles the extraordinary journey of Dr. Tony Dice—from humble beginnings in rural Northern California, through the trials of Navy SEAL training, a dark descent into addiction, and ultimately his transformation into a respected counselor for veterans, first responders, and addicts. Alongside co-host Michael Gray, Andy and Tony have a raw, wide-ranging conversation about peak performance, addiction, recovery, mental health in the military, and the hard realities of reinvention. Their discussion delves deeply into the cultural and psychological challenges faced by high performers, the dangers of unchecked addiction, the realities of transition after military service, and evolving therapeutic approaches.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Days: SEAL Training—Brotherhood, Failure, and Persistence

• Tony’s Introduction to Andy & Michael: They reminisce about starting BUD/S SEAL training together in class 212 back in 1997, discussing the physical and psychological demands, the camaraderie formed, and the unique challenges of Hell Week.
• Cheating Death and Rules: Tony tells stories about bending the rules in SEAL training, like attaching himself to his swim buddy with 550 cord and sewing a blood pressure cuff into his Speedos to pass drown-proofing.
  • “That’s the story of my life. It should have an asterisk—‘Dice: not legal.’” (Dr. Tony, 03:36)
• Injury and Setback: Tony discusses dislocating his shoulder during Hell Week, being rolled from his class, and facing the prospect of career-ending surgery. The medical staff said no one had ever graduated after such an operation, but Tony persevered and eventually graduated with class 219.
  • “They said, ‘Our goal for you is to get your shirt on by yourself. No one with this operation has ever made it through training.’ I was like, ‘So you’re saying I can’t—yet?’” (Dr. Tony, 19:11)
• Brotherhood and Sacrifice: An outrageous story about helping a classmate fake an injury to avoid an unwanted Navy assignment, illustrating the loyalty and moral dilemmas faced.
  • “My head is literally going: would a good friend do it? Or would a good friend not do it?” (Dr. Tony, 13:04)

2. Military Culture & Its Darker Sides

• Alcohol & Performance Culture: They candidly discuss the SEAL and military subculture, where drinking rites are ingrained and identity is shaped around excess—“You drink to indoctrinate, to elevate, to commemorate, to separate. Anything that involves emotion—me and some alcohol can solve it.” (Dr. Tony, 40:53)
• Addiction Under the Radar: Tony admits that even during his service he began dabbling in cocaine and ecstasy, reflecting a coping mechanism and the tendency for high performers to push boundaries.
• Personality Types in Special Operations:
  • “The obsessive-compulsive nature of an addict or alcoholic can lend itself well to being hyper-focused on a mission. I’m going to achieve it at all costs.” (Dr. Tony, 45:00)
• The Hidden Toll: They discuss how peer pressure, stress relief rituals, identity, and lack of healthy coping strategies set the stage for substance abuse and mental health crises after service.

3. From Operator to Addict: Spiral and Reckoning

• Post-military Struggles: After separating from the SEALs, Tony’s life descended into heavy drinking, cocaine, and then methamphetamine use. He discusses the “cage opening” sensation of leaving the military—and suddenly having no structure.
  • “It was like I’d been in a cage for almost a decade. When they took the cage off, I could do whatever I wanted. All my freedoms came back at once… and I could just go.” (Dr. Tony, 47:07)
• Functional Decline: Darkly humorous and sobering stories—like wheeling a couch to the top of a water tower, getting arrested, nearly ruining his Navy prospects, and surviving by the skin of his teeth.
  • “They charged me with terrorist tampering with a city water supply, which is a felony… I had to go to court, my whole life riding on the judge’s word… He goes: ‘Reduced to trespassing, contingent on you joining the Navy.’” (Dr. Tony, 35:36)
• The Meth Years: Graphic descriptions of hardcore addiction, three-day benders, excruciating withdrawals, a broken marriage, and alienated fatherhood. A harrowing turning point:
  • “I was training my whole life to be a hero. My son needs me, and I can’t get out of this room. I stopped looking in the mirror after that. I hated that guy.” (Dr. Tony, 64:14)

4. Redemption: Hitting Bottom, Recovery, New Mission

• Entering Recovery: Tony details his rock bottom and the decision to enter rehab, selling his own car to pay for treatment.
  • “I almost didn’t go back—if it wasn’t for me looking out that window and saying, ‘Maybe this shit will work.’” (Dr. Tony, 71:09)
• Structure of Recovery: Insights on 12-step programs, narrative therapy, and the “holistic change model”—how successful interventions for veterans and first responders must be tailored and involve strong group identity, empathy, and post-therapy support.
  • “There’s much more said on how you do something than what you accomplish.” (Dr. Tony, 74:04)
• Long-term Sobriety: Tony has now been clean for 15 years, credits sponsorship and community, and is driven to give back.
  • “If you’re someone who’s hesitant to have some buy-in, just look at the embedded theory found within [12-step recovery]. It’s not hocus pocus. There’s some solid theory at work.” (Dr. Tony, 90:04)

5. Becoming a Counselor & Helping the Helpers

• Therapist and Advocate: Tony describes returning to school (initially fearing his brain was “fried”), powering through an associate’s, bachelor’s, master’s, and PhD. His doctoral research focused on interventions that work for the veteran population.
• Work with First Responders: Launching Bishop & Dice Defense—a company that embeds mental health support “by stealth” in tactical training for police and fire departments.
  • “For a year, we’ll train you with all the cutting-edge gear. On year two, we bring in the mental health therapy. It’s a bait and switch—but it works.” (Dr. Tony, 92:57)
• Barriers and Stigma: They explore why even improved official programs still face silence and resistance; the necessity of trust for veterans and police to open up.
• The Challenge of Leaving the Tribe: The psychological loss of task and purpose after military careers, and the urgent need for deliberate “de-programming.”
• Force Multipliers:
  • “I’m looking for those ten-exers. How can we continue to grow this exponentially? Every day we don’t do this, people are dying. Their families are blowing up.” (Dr. Tony, 135:09)

6. Reflections on Parenting and Legacy

• Breaking the Cycle: Tony openly discusses talking to his children about addiction, providing age-appropriate versions of his story, and creating “amnesty” windows for confession—a practice learned from the military.
• Living Amends:
  • “My living amends to my kid is to be a kickass dad today. Every day I do that is part of the amends to them for what was done.” (Dr. Tony, 81:47)

7. The Power—and Limits—of Therapy

• Gratitude and Acceptance:
  • “Everything in my life had to happen exactly the way it did for me to end up in this chair, for this guy sitting there… I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be.” (Dr. Tony, 133:14)
• Loss, Limits, and Hope: Tony reflects on not “winning” every case, the chaos-adjacency of therapy work, and how the best therapists must maintain boundaries, get support, and accept that timing and luck are huge factors in successful intervention.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “There are seven levers under there… I don’t know what any of them do.”
  (Tony, joking about microphones and starting the conversation, 00:53)
• "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying."
  (Dr. Tony, on rule-bending in SEAL training, 07:37)
• "All you could see was the distance between where you are and your goal. That's why people quit. They get overwhelmed by the view of time."
  (Andy Stumpf, on SEAL candidate psychology, 16:19)
• "You drink to indoctrinate, you drink to commemorate, you drink to separate... If you drink and get in trouble, you're done. But if you do anything good, here's a case of beer."
  (Dr. Tony, 40:53)
• "It was like I’d been in a cage for almost a decade. When they opened the door, I could use how I wanted to use. I could party how I wanted to party. Zero accountability."
  (Dr. Tony, 47:07)
• "For me, I was beginning to realize addiction was part of my life even back then... I really liked the pain, the chase, the edge."
  (Dr. Tony, reflecting on addictive traits in early training, 32:41)
• "I stopped looking in the mirror after that. I hated that guy."
  (Dr. Tony, on reaching rock bottom as a parent and addict, 64:14)
• "Once I did that investment, it felt like I took all my poker chips and said: I’m in. If I don’t get this, my parachute’s not going to open."
  (Dr. Tony, describing checking into rehab and his all-in approach, 73:04)
• "There’s more said on how you do something than what you accomplish."
  (Dr. Tony, reflecting on lessons from recovery, 74:04)
• "If you want to change someone's perspective, share a story with them. They'll see something in a different light."
  (Dr. Tony, on the power of honest narrative, 118:37)
• "For so many, it's everything... That badge, that Trident, it's your identity. But what is it worth?"
  (Andy Stumpf, on the struggle to let go and seek help, 97:45)
• "My living amends to my kids is to be a kickass dad today."
  (Dr. Tony, 81:47)
• "The gifts of desperation, that point you hit where you're willing to do it a different way... it can come from anywhere—a DUI, blowing up your family, a shift in perspective."
  (Dr. Tony, 77:22)
• "Every day we don’t do this, more people are getting further down that path of self-destruction... I’m looking for those force multipliers."
  (Dr. Tony, 135:09)
• "It’s almost like you’re being selfish by not allowing others to help you… It’s a huge honor when someone asks for help."
  (Dr. Tony, 137:54)
• “Let go of what you think you know about your life. That need to control caused so much strife, and led to so much of me trying to bury my feelings in addiction.”
  (Dr. Tony, 135:44)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:01–14:40]: Intro, SEAL Training Tales, Brotherhood, Cheating the System
• [14:41–23:04]: Early Life, Decision to Join SEALs, Upbringing
• [38:23–46:10]: Platoon Life, Alcohol Culture, Addictive Personalities
• [47:06–56:18]: Leaving the Military, Loss of Structure, Downward Spiral, Contracting in Iraq/Afghanistan
• [61:55–67:22]: Meth Addiction, Hitting Bottom, Neglect, Deciding on Recovery
• [72:15–75:35]: Rehab, Turning Point, 12-Step Model, Commitment to Recovery
• [76:22–91:25]: Becoming a Counselor, Research on Treatment, Launching a Company for First Responders
• [135:09–139:56]: Reflections, Parenting, Force Multipliers, What Comes Next
• [137:54–139:56]: Final Takeaways, Asking for Help, Connection

Resources & Further Information

• Dr. Dice's Book: Available for pre-order on Amazon ("DrDiceBook.com" for behind-the-scenes and mailing list)
• Bishop & Dice Defense: Training and mental health for first responders (seven states and growing)
• Follow Dr. Dice: On all major social platforms at "@Dr.Dice"

Takeaways

• Transformation is Possible: Even the most “high-functioning” or elite individuals can hit rock bottom, but change is possible through community, humility, and structure.
• Military & First Responder Culture Must Evolve: Rituals of toughness often mask unaddressed pain and self-destruction. The right support system—not just for individuals, but for entire communities—can change lives.
• Your Story is Powerful: By owning your narrative, sharing it honestly, and seeking connection, you can help yourself—and countless others—heal.

“If you ask me for help, I take that as a huge honor. Like you trust me enough to ask for help. You're giving someone the ability to ask to be there for you.”
—Dr. Tony Dice [137:56]

For anyone struggling, remember: You are not alone. There are people ready and honored to help.