Episode 418 - Aaron Croft - Combat SAR Pilot Running for Congress

Summary

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Cleared Hot Episode 418 Summary

Guest: Aaron Croft
Host: Andy Stumpf
Date: December 1, 2025
Theme: Military Service, Politics, and Why a Combat SAR Pilot Is Running for Congress

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging conversation between host Andy Stumpf and Aaron Croft, a recently retired USAF combat search and rescue (SAR) helicopter pilot. Aaron is running for Congress as an independent in Washington's 5th District. The discussion delves into Aaron’s military experiences, journey away from organized religion, frustrations with the current political climate, why he's seeking public office, the complexities of bipartisan issues like term limits and campaign finance, the realities of flying combat helicopters, and what effective and meaningful public service should look like.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Run for Congress?

• Motivation: Aaron stresses the importance of service and wanting to make an impact beyond his military career. He credits his wife as an integral supporter throughout.
• Desire for Change: He’s dissatisfied with increasing division and negativity in US politics, and feels compelled to do something rather than just complain.
• Service Mindset: Running for office is framed as a continuation of his lifelong service.

Quote:
_"Service has always been something that was important to me." – Aaron ([01:38])

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2. On Military Service and Transition

• Background: Aaron served nearly 22 years, retiring as a lieutenant colonel (O-5), and flew both rotary and fixed-wing aircraft, primarily for search and rescue.
• Military Life’s Impact: Lessons learned on teamwork, diversity, finding common ground, and shared sacrifice are central to his worldview.
• Leaving Military: He turned down a promotion to focus on his family and future – a choice met with mixed reactions.
• Post-military Plans: Initially intended to teach, but was encouraged to consider public office.

Quote:
_"My plan was to get another master’s…go teach high school Spanish and French. But my wife said, 'Maybe take a breather before you jump in.'" – Aaron ([57:02])

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3. Faith, Morality & Organized Religion

• Faith Journey: Aaron grew up Mormon, served a mission in Mexico, and found value in the moral framework, but drifted due to discomfort with organized religion’s silence on critical issues.
• Religious Foundations: Expresses continued respect for Christ as a moral example, even as his church attendance has lessened.

Quote:
_"I’m very grateful for the moral foundation it gave me…I still look at Christ as, like, the perfect example of how you could live your life." – Aaron ([03:54])

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4. Political Polarization & The Case for Centrism

• Diagnosis: Both agree that extreme left/right partisanship dominates the news cycle and online discourse, while most people sit close to the center.
• Military as a Model: The military’s forced collaboration among diverse groups stands as a microcosm for what society should strive for.

Quote:
_"The overwhelming majority of us, we’re all, you know, within a couple of millimeters of that center line." – Aaron ([13:39])

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5. Accountability, Term Limits & The Political System

• Lobbyists & Money: Strong criticism for how corporate interests and big donors pull political strings, undermining genuine constituent representation.
• Term Limits: Both firmly agree that term limits are needed for Congress, and discuss the historical failure to enact them despite broad popular support.
• Transparency: Advocates for simple language, regular town halls, and accountability.

Quotes:
_"Term limits are 100%. Single-issue bills are another." – Andy ([25:37])
_"We have to be able to have those conversations. If you look at polling, that's what people care about. They don’t care about all these distractions." – Aaron ([150:13])

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6. Online Negativity & The Dead Internet Theory

• Social Media’s Role: Discusses the prevalence of bots and manufactured outrage, emphasizing the importance of in-person discourse.
• Advice to Candidates: Aaron is encouraged to eschew “hashtags and polish” for sincerity and authenticity online.

Memorable Exchange:
_"A lot of really smart people…believe that a number between 70 to 85% of Internet traffic is actually occurring through bots." – Andy ([29:07])

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7. Helicopter War Stories & SAR Realities

• Training Progression: Fixed-wing basics to helicopters is the typical Air Force track; Aaron argues it enhances safety and airmanship.
• Combat SAR Challenges: Vivid stories of difficult landings in zero-visibility brownouts, mechanical failures, and the trust between pilots and crew.
• Humor in the Cockpit: Light moments about mustached Vietnam-era instructors, the agony of beards in the military, and cross-branch ribbing.

Quote:
_"When you’re a brand new pilot…you need to give it gas 13 seconds before you need it." – Andy ([40:08])
_"Don't do mini airshows for people." – Aaron ([132:21])

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8. "Common Ground" Policy Priorities

• Healthcare: Calls for affordable, accessible care to avoid bankrupting Americans.
• Housing & Wages: Addresses the stark realities of rising home costs versus stagnant wages, particularly for young and lower-income workers.
• Political Independence: Makes a case for running as an independent to prioritize district needs over party lines.

Quote:
_"If we focus on the things that we all share, that we all care about, then we can make some changes." – Aaron ([149:54])

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Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• Why Politics?
  "Why do you want to get involved in politics, man? It might be the toughest question of the day." – Andy ([01:04])

• On Military-Marital Partnership:
  "I just always include her for everything because there is no way I am where I am today without her." – Aaron ([01:49])

• On Political Discourse:
  "We all have so much more in common than we do dividing us…on the day to day, we're not fighting." – Aaron ([10:18])

• On Lobbying:
  "You gotta shit can the lobbyists." – Andy ([25:53])

• On Social Media Bots:
  "Rows and rows and rows of storage systems and racks of cellphones…these are the people that they train to be contrarian." – Andy ([29:07])

• On Helicopter Flying:
  "The 60 was originally…186 for max gross weight. We flew around at 22. When I first started flying, they were getting cracks in the 308 beam…" – Aaron ([48:29])

• On Political Reform:
  "If you allow the government to shut down, you are immediately no longer eligible for reelection." – Andy ([63:44])

• On Local Engagement:
  "My plan is to have a town hall every 45 days…so that people can hold my feet to the fire." – Aaron ([153:33])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Why Run for Office ([01:04] – [05:00])
• Faith & Organized Religion ([03:53] – [09:21])
• Political Polarization & Military as Microcosm ([13:39] – [16:27])
• Term Limits & Lobbyists ([25:29] – [28:25])
• Combat SAR & Helicopter Stories ([34:00] – [52:00], [132:02] – [137:34])
• The Dead Internet Theory ([28:49] – [31:39])
• Economic Issues: Housing, Wages, and Flat Tax ([111:04] – [124:51])
• Ideas for Political Reform ([63:44] – [66:10], [94:02] – [100:19])
• Candidacy Platform & Closing Pitch ([149:54] – [156:47])

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Closing Summary

Aaron Croft presents himself as a pragmatic, service-minded leader, disillusioned by today’s polarized, unresponsive politics. Drawing on decades of military teamwork, personal humility, and a focus on centrist, practical solutions, his Congressional campaign centers on restoring accountability, public trust, and a focus on shared needs—especially healthcare, housing, and fair wages. The conversation is a blend of firsthand war stories, wry humor, and serious policy concerns—all grounded in lived experience and a desire to reconnect American politics to the real lives of its citizens.

To learn more or support Aaron Croft:
croftforcongress.com (number "4" in the URL).

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Memorable Quote:
_"If we can get rid of the rhetoric, bring the temperature down…get people to see each other as community members and neighbors, then we can make huge gains in this country." – Aaron ([150:37])

Transcript

[A]

Okay, I got the red smoke. Sun runs north and south west of the smoke.

[B]

West of the smoke.

[A]

Okay, copy. West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now. I swear that I have hit it and made it red before. And it went back to green. Have you ever had that happen?

[B]

Yeah, we had it happen.

[A]

Remember that one time it was doing.

[B]

That during that podcast? The super one time.

[A]

Yes. Super descriptive. So I really appreciate you. Really.

[B]

It's like the only time it's happened besides when you did it.

[A]

So that kind of says something. There's no trust anymore. You know what I mean? Faith and trust is gone. So I have paranoia when I'm in here by myself. I'm just like, oh, God.

[B]

What? Did I not turn on too many buttons?

[A]

Having said that, I have recorded an episode with the lens covers on before, so it's not a big deal. Deal.

[B]

It's all right.

[A]

Fade to black. Stay black.

[B]

All right, Aaron, you ready? Yeah, let's do it.

[A]

Okay. Probably the most important question ever. You ready for this?

[B]

Yeah, shoot.

[A]

Why do you want to get involved in politics, man? It might be the toughest question of the day.

[B]

It's a. It's a question I get a lot lately, though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Surprising.

[A]

Well, that's probably because you're running for office, so I feel like we're on a parallel track here.

[B]

Yeah, I think it makes sense. Yeah, that's a good question. So, honestly, it was something my wife and I talked about a lot throughout our career. Okay. And I'm not. Not entirely sure why or how. It was just something that we considered. We thought, hey, this is.

[A]

Pull this thing a little closer. Keep it that fist away. No worries.

[B]

It was something we thought that was kind of an easy transition. Service has always been something that was important to me.

[A]

So I know you were in the military. When you say you and your wife's career, was she also military?

[B]

I just always include her for everything because there is no way I am where I am today without her. That's so I.

[A]

Fair statement.

[B]

When I say our career, I just mean mine. But she was like, a huge reason, you know, behind me being able to accomplish anything.

[A]

Okay. No, that's fair. I. I am divorced and remarried, but my ex wife was. I would have described it the same way. I understand what you're talking about. I just didn't know if she actually. Sometimes you have two service members married, serving at the same time.

[B]

Yeah, no, she. She didn. And she likes to tell people that I tricked her into this because we got married before I went into the military and the school. You know, I did a year at a feeder school for byu, and they didn't have an ROTC program or anything like that, But I knew from the time I was a little kid that, you know, the military was where I was going. Maybe I left that out when we were initially dating. And so she felt like it was a surprise.

[A]

I mean, it's a slow process to get in, so she had to have seen the warning signs.

[B]

Did. I mean, I didn't know. And I didn't know anything about the service academies or anything like that when we were dating. And so I was like, hey, you know, I can do this one year and then go to the Air Force Academy. And, you know, I was like, oh, too, too late. That ship has sailed. I'm already married. And they don't take married people.

[A]

They don't.

[B]

No, no. Yeah, I didn't know that either at the time, obviously.

[A]

Do you know if that's true across all academies?

[B]

I would imagine so. I mean, that's a. That'd be a tough marriage. Four years right off the bat, you don't see each other.

[A]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be tough, but that' interesting go, no go criteria. Oh, well, okay.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, also, who gets married at the stupid age that, you know, we got married at? We were young kids. I was 21, and she had just turned 20.

[A]

Why'd you guys decide to get married that young?

[B]

Immature, dumb. You know, I'm. I grew up Mormon, and I'm not. Not Mormon now, but.

[A]

What does that even mean?

[B]

I know, right? I still go from time to time. I still very grateful for the moral foundation it gave me. And I still look at, you know, whether you're a religious person or not. I still look at Christ as, like, you know, the perfect example of how you could live your life. Things like that.

[A]

How does Christ fit into the Mormon methodology?

[B]

I mean, the name of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So we.

[A]

Same place as in, I would say, and I'm not an expert in Christianity. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Either way.

[A]

Yeah. So he holds the same place that he does in Christianity as well.

[B]

He is the Savior. So it's the same place or same, I guess, place in our religion as any other Christian religion.

[A]

Did you go to church more frequently when you were younger?

[B]

Yeah, I served a mission. So you did a podcast with Brian Slade a few years back. A couple years back. I'd say we're kind of similar in the same boat. I served A mission.

[A]

Where'd you do it?

[B]

Mexico. To cruise Mexico.

[A]

So I have been on a lot of airplanes out of Salt Lake City.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With young men and women heading out on their mission.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I'm gonna be honest with you. Sitting behind a row of them on one flight or one of one flights. While that's some great English for today, on one of the flights, it was interesting. They were talking about which cartoons they could watch and which ones they couldn't.

[B]

Yeah. It's a different world than when I went on my mission, when I went 96 to 98. And you, I think. And you're just. Your last podcast. You just turned 48.

[A]

I did.

[B]

So I'm like a month and a half behind you.

[A]

I know. I look in my late 20s. It's sweet.

[B]

I know, I know. It's crazy. Get it all the time.

[A]

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[B]

Getting out of bed. Yes.

[A]

Up here.

[B]

Sometimes not at all.

[A]

I don't even feel in the same decade.

[B]

I still struggle when somebody says, if you do do this in the back of my head and sometimes, depending on where we're at out loud, I'm like, he said, doo, doo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so I still. I still struggle with some of that stuff. So, no, I don't feel my age at all. I do feel my age in pain, physically. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

There's some weird. The mileage adds up for sure.

[B]

But yeah.

[A]

Yeah. When I woke up on my birthday, my first thought was, really?

[B]

Really? Yeah.

[A]

I didn't think humans live this long.

[B]

Yeah. I never thought I would.

[A]

I didn't make it. I certainly didn't either.

[B]

I was a very, you know, dumb kid. That. That which I credit to not being or to still being mobile today. I credit, you know, living the rough childhood and adolescence that. That, you know, we kind of had. You learn how to fall correctly, which, you know, makes a big difference later on. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now I.

[A]

How did you drift away from the church again?

[B]

It's not so much that I drifted away. My big issue is with organized religion, I think. I think that's where I struggle the most. I feel like they have a platform, and I say they, you know, it's like a royal. They all of them have this platform where they can do so much good in the world, and it just seems like they're silent so much of the time and they just.

[A]

What do you think that is?

[B]

I don't know. I don't know if it's because they're afraid they're going to lose their congregations and there goes tithing money.

[A]

Good. I mean, wouldn't that actually probably attract more people?

[B]

I agree with you, but that's why I struggle with it, because I just feel like there's so much negativity and vitriol that. That is just out there right now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it used to be you could have a difference of opinion with somebody and that was cool. You still got along, you still hung out, you still talk to each other on your way, you know, out the front door in the morning, going to work. And now it's like, oh, well, you find yourself on the other side of this line from me. I don't want anything to do with you.

[A]

Let me ask you this though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you find that to be true in your personal day to day, real world life or online? Because I still.

[B]

No, I agree with you. I agree with you 100%. And I think that's one of the things or that's one of the reasons I'm running because I think on the.

[A]

Day to day that's a good platform.

[B]

Yeah, I'm going to shut down the Internet. Yeah, you heard it here.

[A]

Good luck with that.

[B]

I'll probably win.

[A]

I probably.

[B]

It's already in the bag. No, I just mean I want to make people remember that we all have so much more in common than we do. Dividing us. Yeah. Because like you said on the day to day we're not fighting with each other. We're not, we don't hate each other. But there is a definite, I think there is a definite difference now than, you know, even 15, 10, 15, 20 years ago in that because of those differences of opinion most of the time, you know, and they're usually something minor. But we stop talking to those people less and less. We're friendly to each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But excuse me. I had a bacon, egg and cheese croissant over there.

[A]

How was it?

[B]

Really good. They, they put a lot of bacon on there, but I can, I'm gonna burp it up for a little bit.

[A]

I mean, nobody wants a bacon egg croissant with not enough bacon.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You have to, you have to land on too much.

[B]

So. Yeah, no, I, and I think, I think they strike the perfect balance.

[A]

It was good. It's a good crew over there. Thankfully I have very light hands over there, otherwise it would be a mess. The bacon, egg and cheese would somehow not come with bacon because I would forget to order it. Yeah. I actually still really seek out in person. I enjoy very spirited conversations. Some of the most spirited ones I have is with my own father who I think, Michael, you've been in the room enough times. Do you think my dad would describe himself as a classic liberal?

[B]

Yeah, I would say so.

[A]

So, I would say so. But it seems in, in his words, good luck raising or lowering one of these things.

[B]

Does what?

[A]

You're just right there. That's all you're locked in is the term that the kids use these days.

[B]

Yeah, I like it.

[A]

He would say that the left has moved farther left than he wants to go, but we still have. And so he'll have spirited conversations with those more on the left. And he. I, I, actually, it was. We were having a conversation yesterday. I had a guest in who I would say his wheelhouse was Rome, essentially the fall of empires. Very knowledgeable in that area. And he was talking about feeling equally unrepresented by both sides of the aisle, which is something that I agree with. Struggling to describe where I land politically. The best description I heard was from a buddy of mine, Richard Ryan. He said, libertarian, bordering on anarchy. Not that you want anarchy, but that's like. That's how little you want the government involved.

[B]

I see that.

[A]

Yeah. So I. And on some issues, I'm more right than my dad, and some issues we align, but at the end of the day, as if I'm going to cut him out of my life if you get into a heated conversation, he tries to explain to me something he saw on the Internet, which, by the way, he doesn't know how it works at all. And he can't find or go back. I'm like, show me what you're talking about. Never once has that ever happened with me asking him to provide a piece of data that he claims to have looked for because he doesn't know how to find it again.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's a, that's a common problem. My dad's 80, 78. Yeah. So he's. They're in the same. Yeah, they're in the same boat.

[A]

But I love it. I love. I have nothing against somebody who holds a different opinion than myself. That is, in my opinion, at least, what this country was founded upon. Why people join the military. Yeah.

[B]

And I think that's one of the things that we have in the military that a lot of people don't have. You are forced into small, confined areas with people that are from different sides of the country, different, you know, whatever. The background is totally different people. And you got to make it work. And so you find common ground. And that's where you, you make the differences. You know, the way I, I look at it always is, you know, you got the, if this is the, the political spectrum, you got nut jobs way out here on the right. Oh, yeah. And you got nut jobs way out here on the left. But like the overwhelming majority of us, we're all, you know, within a couple of millimeters of that center line. You know, you might have One or two issues that pull you out a little further, you know, in one direction or the other. You might have some issues that you're. You're a little outside on one side of the line and the other side of the line for other issues. But it doesn't change the fact that the bulk of people are found right there in the center where we all have everything in common. We all want affordable healthcare. You know, nobody wants to be one medical emergency away from life. Crippling debt, which is the case for.

[A]

A lot of people. Still one of the number one causes of bankruptcy in the U.S. yeah, exactly.

[B]

You know, when you look at modern countries, we're the only one that spends as much per capita as we do on health care. And still you have that risk of, you know, your life ruining. You know, you get that cycle where you can't work because you're sick, and so now you're not earning money. You go to the hospital to get it taken care of and you're slammed with, you know, outrageous amounts of debt, you know, and so. But you can't go back to work because you're still sick. And so it just gets worse and worse. And that's how you have a lot of people, know, ending up in really bad situations. And so, again, 95% of us, and I don't know what the real number is, are all right.

[A]

Pretty close, to be honest.

[B]

Yeah, we're all. We're all right there in the center, you know, where everybody wants to be able to earn a living without having to work two to three jobs. You know, there. There's so many things that we have in common, and if we focused on those things, you know, these little distractions out here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That the nut jobs want us paying attention to. And I don't think it's just the nut jobs. I think there's big benefit for big business and billionaires and elites to keep us distracted on these outliers. As long as we're focused on these weird little things that could divide us. We're forgetting the fact that we all really, you know, you got that Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Yeah, we all need that same stuff.

[A]

Do you think when it comes to the billionaires, that that is an active or a passive approach to keep people preoccupied? Do you think that. And again, you can't speak for all of them. Right. So I'm sure there's. There's flyers inside of that as well, too. But do you largely think that they even concern themselves with stuff like that or they're Focusing on just what led them to being in that economic status, I think.

[B]

And I, I would hesitate to ever say somebody is good or bad person because of their financial, you know, health, because of how wealthy they are or are not. But I think they give fairly clear guidance to whoever runs their, their funds and whoever runs their, their entities that, that they need. And that gets twisted. You know, it's the, you know, in the mission we're given clear guidance. We're told what to do and oftentimes we're given the, we're given a little bit of leeway on how to execute that mission. And you've seen it. I've seen it. There are some people that are a little overzealous in how they execute that mission and take a little too much leeway. And I think, and I'm, I'm just thinking of this right now, so I'm sure I'm going to be skewered over this later. But you know, I think it started like a lot of things with good intentions and it just, oh, hey, that really benefited me. Well, let's do more of that. And then it gets worse and worse and it just keeps growing.

[A]

So using your analogy, you know, you're at a, say you're over in Afghanistan or Iraq and a battle suit based commander gives you an overlying goal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And passes it over to people who are geographically to go execute that. We have somebody gets a little bit out of control, gets a little twisted, a little overzealous and achieves the result. But for whatever reason it's beneficial that we'll call that the middle ban. Is that the general commanding general's fault or is that the person who got twisted and got the benefit from it? I'm trying to figure, you know what I mean? Because does it go downstream and upstream? You know what I mean? It's got to go both ways.

[B]

I'm going to go to the book you got over there that I, we read a few years back when I was at the survival school. We did like a little book club thing and extreme ownership was one of them.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I'm gonna go back to that because it's a great example. At the end of the day, a guy in charge holds the accountability or should they're responsible for what the people underneath them are doing. That doesn't always mean that they're condoning it. Yeah, that doesn't mean they're condoning it or it doesn't mean that they told them to go out there and do that. But at the end of the day they're responsible for the people that work for them.

[A]

Sure. Let's go back to the military, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You were an officer, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Would you retire at what rank?

[B]

Lieutenant colonel.

[A]

Oh, five.

[B]

Oh, five. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I had. Yeah. Tried at 05.

[A]

Okay. No, that's good. It's better than me. Oh three E. Which I found a way to become an officer without a college degree or.

[B]

I just heard that in your last. In your last podcast. You know, I knew a guy in the Guard because our, you know, in rescue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Half of our assets are in the garden reserves.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Which made for very busy, you know, dwell ratios.

[A]

Yeah. And administrative challenges.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. My. My staff tour. I ran the gift map for all of rescue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was a nightmare. Trying to coordinate their dwell times with our dwell times. And so it was. It was.

[A]

That's a different language, actually. It is.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

So this is back to my, like E. Four days in the Navy. Never once was drinking and driving ever condoned in the community. And honestly, they would. It's like probably it's in ejection seat. I like to believe there's just a button you push and you eject. The ARI Alcohol related incident would be that. Yeah. We would have guidance that was pushed out electronically. My LPO would talk to us, the OIC would talk to us, the operations officer, the commanding officer. All of this guidance and a 20 year old E3 or 21 year old E3 will go out and ignore that and get a DUI. Who holds the accountability for that if each one of those people is doing exactly what they have been tasked with doing? Because the reality is it's that guy's fault who got behind the wheel.

[B]

100%. 100%.

[A]

So I love the concept of extreme ownership. However, it can be flawed.

[B]

No, I totally agree with you. I think there are. It's not as simple as I went to that because it's an easy way to highlight something as big as a mission. I think in a mission, in that kind of environment, I think it's a lot easier or it is a lot more cut and dry where the responsibility lies.

[A]

True. A lot of the times, though, the CG or the people at the top, they don't know that somebody is benefiting underneath them because their commander's guidance has trickled down so many different times. And it actually can be bastardized or it can be diluted or misconstrued, but if you come back with, hey, mission success, they might not even realize it.

[B]

No, I agree. 100%. I've seen it. You know, we've all seen it in our careers. You know, that's, that's what can happen. But if we're gonna just, we can, we can pick a situation or hypothetical where, where they do find out. You know, at the end of the.

[A]

Day, if they don't do anything about something they do know about, then when I'm right back. I agree with you 100 on that. Yeah, yeah. It's. Then this leads to, you know, why do billionaires exist? And they don't pay any taxes? Or people who are wealthy don't pay taxes. Like, listen, they're playing inside of the tax code that currently exists.

[B]

Bingo.

[A]

And if you don't want them to be able to do that, change the tax code.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I cannot fault somebody. As a business owner myself, yes, deductions are an amazing thing. Are all deductions. When you look at them like, wow, are you sure this is legal, allowed?

[B]

Yeah, no, I totally get it.

[A]

And I didn't write the tax code, but I am a personal believer that the US government is not a good steward of my money.

[B]

100%.

[A]

They have done a few things over the course of my life that lead me to believe that I don't want to give them anymore. So I also play inside of that tax system. 100% legal. But I am playing inside of the goal posts. And as are these people. Some of these write offs are tremendous. And if so, why are you upset at the person playing in that game when who you should be upset at is the people who are designating where the goal posts are on the field?

[B]

So there's, so there's so many layers to this discussion, you know, I mean, you got, it's like beards or facial hair in the military. Is it a stupid rule? Are we the only military in the world that still has a ban on facial hair?

[A]

I heard it came back.

[B]

More than likely. We can get into that. My last assignment, I was, I was at an embassy, and so I had no real connection to, you know, home base.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And every once in a while I had to go to Aviano or Ramstein or something. And I walk around, I'm like, where are all these beards come from? Did the, and I'd pull somebody aside like, hey, did the rules change? Like, are we allowed to have beards now? People like, nah, they just stopped fighting it. I go, okay. But the, the point I'm making. Yeah, I know, right?

[A]

The point I'm making, the exact opposite of military discipline and order.

[B]

That's What I thought the point I'm making is as much as I disagree with the rule, as stupid as it might be for us to not be allowed to have facial hair, it's on the books.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you got to enforce it. I totally understand shaving waivers and all that stuff.

[A]

Legitimate reasons.

[B]

You know, I, I, I saw this thing where it was, you know, some white dude who just, I don't know, identified as a mountain man kind of thing. And, and that was how he got away with having this freaking like really, really big beard. And I'm like, I don't understand how that's possible in any way, shape or form.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the back to the point is that the rule's there, so you got to follow it. The tax code is the way it is and you cannot fault people for playing in that agree within that tax code. Here's where I think you start getting into. It's not the exact same thing. These billionaires know exactly who pulls the strings and they can afford lobbyists and they can afford to send people to D.C. and they will fund campaigns. And then when they get the people they pushed into office there between, hey, reminding them that, hey, remember when I, you know, put out an ad at the last second that destroyed your competition and guaranteed you won? You know, I'm coming calling that.

[A]

I totally agree with that. That happens. And I think one of the. There's a couple of changes I think have to be made in our political system or it's going to fail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Term limits are 100%. Single issue bills are another. And you have to, I mean you can just look at the amount of time spent getting elected and then reelected versus the time doing your job and the influence that lobbyists have.

[B]

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

[A]

In Washington.

[B]

It's ridiculous.

[A]

You gotta shit can the lobbyists.

[B]

100%.

[A]

I agree. I don't know if what I just said is possible.

[B]

I don't know what the answer to that is. I know that is definitely what we should be working towards. How you do that though is, wouldn't.

[A]

The answer to that be if you did get rid of them though, that the constituents and the people elected to office would listen to those that elected them to office instead of those writing the biggest checks.

[B]

100%. I mean this is, this is exactly the, the kinds of reasons that I'm running as an independent. You know, sometimes I land a little on the right, sometimes I land a little on the left. And you know, depending on the nature of the audience asking me the question, they'll say well, why don't you just run as a Republican? You're just hiding as a, as an independent or why don't you just run as a, as a Democrat? In fact, somebody literally recently told me, like, you've, you've partaken of the blue Kool Aid. So why are you hiding? Why are you masquerading as an independent?

[A]

When did we start even talking like this, by the way?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's crazy because that was 100% said as a pejorative.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, hey, man, not everybody likes vanilla ice cream.

[B]

Exactly. I'm more of a cherry Kool Aid kind of guy. You know, the same thing that broke through the wal wall and said, oh, yeah. I mean, well, that's where I, you know, if we're talking about real Kool Aid. But yeah, you're right, it's pejorative thing now. And it's something that somebody way on the right will use to paint somebody that has that difference of opinion in a pejorative way.

[A]

Yeah. So they can dismiss them.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, oh, you don't matter because you're just this, you know, weirdo that has extreme ideas.

[A]

Yeah. And that to me is the yellow brick road to it maybe all coming apart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't want to see that.

[B]

I don't know, I think you, you hit the nail on the head. You talked about one of the things I want to do is remind people that they hold the actual power. And I know that sounds cliche and it sounds idealistic, but, you know, how else do we get after minimizing the influence of lobbyists other than reminding people, hey, get off your rear end. Go out there and vote for people that believe in things that you believe in. And I think another thing that kind of pigtails into that is, you know, perfect is the enemy of good enough. We're all looking for that perfect candidate. We're all looking for that perfect politician that aligns 100% with everything I believe.

[A]

Good luck with that.

[B]

That doesn't exist. It doesn't exist at all. And so I think I'm not a politician. And I said that on one of my, I'm starting social media and all that stuff, which never really had. And so it's a eye opening, welcome learning experience. Yeah. And I also have ADHD real bad. So I'm, I jump all over the place.

[A]

Have you heard of the dead Internet theory?

[B]

No.

[A]

So this will help you with social media. It helps me a lot of really smart people in the Internet ecosystem Believe that a number between 70 to 85% of Internet traffic is actually occurring through bots.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. So when you are arguing with people or what you think are people, just go to YouTube and look up these bot farms. Michael, do me a favor. Go and see if you can find them. We're talking rows and rows and rows of storage systems and racks of cell phones that are hooked into computers. These are the people that they train to be contrarian.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Antagonistic. To say. To learn by your response. To try to. As you come into. So you're thinking you're talking with somebody. You're talking to somebody or some. Some phone. In Bangladesh. Yeah, sorry, if Bangladesh. That's not where it's happening. That's the first place that came to mind. I've never been. Maybe it's spectacular.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure it's.

[A]

Do you find anything, Michael? Yeah, it's not working. Hold on. What's not working?

[B]

The Internet. It's dead.

[A]

No, the. That's the dead Internet theory.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are we in the 80% of the Internet that is dead, Michael? The displays aren't working.

[B]

Hold on. Are you.

[A]

Oh, you know why? Probably because you didn't set them up because you went to Japan and forgot how to do your job. I was working yesterday.

[B]

I set it up. No, my son talks about this. I didn't know it was called the dead Internet theory, but he. My son is. He'll be 23 in December.

[A]

Oh, yes.

[B]

He's going to be theoretical physicist.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, he's. He's one of those. He's a low support needs, autistic kid. And I mean, just. I can't even spell theoretical physicist. I'm a. I'm a Spanish major.

[A]

Listen, sometimes I think I'm a theoretical physicist because I'll think about physics in a very theoretical way because I don't know anything about it. So I'll just switch the words around a little bit. Here we go. This. So before you hit play, Michael, hit pause. Think of this when you're into social media, because I remind myself of this and it actually helps. Whether you're solving murders during breakfast, cracking.

[B]

Cold cases on your commute, or playing.

[A]

Amateur detective at bedtime, Amazon Music's got millions of podcast episodes waiting. Just download the Amazon music app and.

[B]

Start listening to your favorite true crime podcasts ad free included with Prime.

[A]

You'll see the velocity sometimes of comments come in. You're like, wait a minute. How quickly were you able to consume what I just put out and have this?

[B]

And it'll be is there any real critical thought that went into your response? Because I posted it and you hit reply.

[A]

They're getting good though. They'll get antagonistic. They'll want to suck you into this negativity loop. If you feel yourself getting ready to do that, think of this. Michael, hit play. This is a minor example of what I have seen.

[B]

I mean already that's just insane.

[A]

That's the dead Internet theory. So that's so all of those could be trained to interact and they do stuff like this too. Inflate numbers across a variety of things. Right. Whether it's you know, views on you. I get weird emails. Hello sir, madame, Would you like to be the top number one rated what's we're guaranteed to give you 1 million views and like these overnight. So it actually researching this a little bit it's like let you breathe, let.

[B]

You breathe a little and realize that it's not as negative maybe.

[A]

Yeah. You'll invest your bandwidth into talking to an AI based device that is just. It's actually learning to be better at what it does based off of your response.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah. So tread with caution.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Well what I need is a social media person.

[A]

So do it yourself.

[B]

They can, they can tell me what to what kind of video they want. I can tell them what my position is, film it and then I'll give it to them and they can post it.

[A]

Listen to you already starting to sound like a politician.

[B]

No, it's not a politician. It wasn't.

[A]

I don't want a media director.

[B]

I'll own it. I'll own what I say film. I just don't want to have to do the posting or coming up with the the captions or the hashtags. That's the stuff I don't want to do. Listen, I don't want to do any of that stuff.

[A]

I'm a moron, right. So don't listen to anything I say. And I've never run for office and I never would I think as a voter and I don't even live in the district where or the state where. Where you're running. So my opinion is completely irrelevant. I would be more interested in the non polished no hashtags because I tell you what's more important than any hashtag. Quality of content.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I would rather just see somebody super low production value but a real person. That is what I'm interested in. It's and it's not that hard. You could honestly you could do it in five minutes every day.

[B]

No and that's fine if I can find. What I need is a. I'm a pilot. I need a checklist. I need to wake up every day and be like, all right, this is. You know what you're doing from this time to this time.

[A]

Forget to bring your iPad to the bird. What are you gonna do?

[B]

We never had iPads in the bird.

[A]

I mean, for. We never.

[B]

We.

[A]

That's bush.

[B]

I know. We had.

[A]

I went through flight is amazing.

[B]

I went through upt in, you know, and I learned how to fly in tweets. T37.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, the only jet they say is so powerful it needs a thrust attenuator. Do you know what I'm talking about? Has anyone ever talked to you about that?

[A]

No.

[B]

So the T37 is this super old side by side jet. You know, you're sitting right next to your instructor. So there is no getting away from it if you don't know.

[A]

Yeah. You can't hide.

[B]

Yeah. You can't hide it. They're right there. They're like, so did you miss a step? And you're like, I didn't think so.

[A]

But first off, I hate questions like that. It's the worst because sometimes the answer is no. And you want to say no, but you have to say yes because you have no faith in yourself.

[B]

Exactly. But two seconds earlier you did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Two seconds earlier you were 100% positive that you nailed everything you were supposed to do. Then they asked that question, which is, I don't know, it's cheap. As when I was an instructor, I never did it. I never played those stupid games because I don't know, it's just, it's. It doesn't make sense. Just because it sucked for you doesn't mean it's just sucked for me and doesn't mean it's just stuck for the next guy.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

I think there are way better ways. And we've come a long way in the military as far as how to instruct and train people. You know, we've stopped, we've done away with a lot of the pain just for pain's sake.

[A]

Yeah. Which I think is smart. Yeah. So Air Force aviators, they all start fixed.

[B]

I think they're changing it. There was a small time where rotary wing went straight to rotary wing. I think it was a money decision. It was a money driven factor.

[A]

Just saving time.

[B]

Yeah. But when I went through, it was fixed wing. And then you track. You do your track select halfway through. I was the one guy that wanted helicopters. I've Always wanted helicopters. I think I told you I was an army brat and I, I grew up wanting to be a door kicker and my dad was like, don't do that. You'll never have a family life. You'll never, you know, you, whatever, he, he coached me away from it and I was like, all right, well, the next best thing is I want to fly the door kickers to where they're going to go.

[A]

Let me ask you this. Having gone through that track of fixed wing to rotary, what do you think is more effective? Because I did the same. So I started flying helicopters about a year and a half ago.

[B]

But so much more fun, right?

[A]

So much more different.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Yeah. The best description I've ever heard is an airplane is a bowl with a marble in the bottom and you're just holding it there. A helicopter, you flip the bowl over and you put the marble on top and you got to keep that on top.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is pretty accurate. Yeah. But I had all of the basic, I had my private commercial instrument, multi ATP and two jet type ratings before I ever got inside of a helicopter.

[B]

You are hands down a better helicopter pilot as a result of that.

[A]

It was so much easier to sit in a helicopter and say, we are going to focus completely on helicopter stuff. Because I was there when other people would come in for their lesson and they're sitting there like, oh, what airspace are we in again? How do you talk on the radio? All that stuff still applied. And I had that knowledge base.

[B]

But you have basic airmanship down before you ever look at.

[A]

I feel like it'd be very hard to learn how to fly a helicopter and be an aviator at the same time. I think there's some validity to the fixed wing track.

[B]

Yeah. I, I, when, when they start, they started looking at it when I was actually at my staff tour at ACC or Air Combat Command, they started looking at eliminating or taking rotary wing pilots in the Air Force and putting them straight into rotary wing. I'm not sure where that landed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because from that point on I, I kind of took a different track, but I was against it. I was one of the voices fighting against it. I'm not sure where it happened. You know, I was an 04 at the time and nobody cares what an 04. Its staff is like a butter bar everywhere else. There's 40 million. Yeah. There's, you have, you might be an 04 and a big deal on a regular base somewhere, but you go to a staff place somewhere and you are the person holding the briefcase. You are the Person setting up the. The briefing beforehand.

[A]

I've been in the room with admirals, and they're asking captains to go get them coffee.

[B]

I'm just like, yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah, shit, absolutely. I'm like, I don't ever want to be in your shoes, However. I get it. I mean, this is the world, but. Okay, you're asking a CO equivalent of a.

[B]

Is that the best use of our resources?

[A]

Well, it was the only person that was traveling with him, so it seemed to be going well. Yeah.

[B]

Somebody has to do it.

[A]

So you're side by side in a jet. What is a thrust attenuator?

[B]

Okay, so thrust attenuator. It's a joke. It's obviously a joke. The Tweet is so underpowered and so old.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They're not even flying anymore. Now it's a T6. It's the Texan 2. Much better. Even though it's not a jet, it's a turbine.

[A]

It's a same theory. Yeah.

[B]

Turboprop, but it's way better. The thrust attenuator right at the nacelles, where, you know, where you're getting your thrust. Yeah. It takes so long to go from idle up to. To mil power, you know, I think I can't remember the exact number, but it's like 13 seconds.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And so we're talking crisp runner. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The. The Tweet wasn't built with a thrust attenuator. This was an A mod after the fact as this thing aged, because you'd have guys, you know, doing touch and goes where they're just bouncing off the. Off of the Runway because they got no juice coming. No juice. And so what happens is you pull the throttle back to about midway, 50%, and these little attenuators come out to eliminate some of that thrust that's actually pushing you backwards. But the engine's still spooled up so that if you need to go around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It takes now it's like a second or two, you know, because that thrust attenuator comes back in, and the jet's already spooled up. So it's not taking that 13 seconds to spin the.

[A]

As you're going off the end of the Runway.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah.

[A]

I tell you what, though, that would teach you to think way ahead for power management.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You would be thinking way ahead of the aircraft.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And probably dead before you got to the point of thinking ahead of the aircraft.

[B]

Yeah. With a bunch of brand new pilots or students.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like, you need to give it gas.

[A]

13 seconds. Before you need it. And they're just trying to learn how to do, you know, left hand patterns in a. No.

[B]

When I first started, when I first started in tweets, I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, how many radios are going off right now? How many people are talking? It was one radio, one radio in the tweet. And I was just so overwhelmed with everything because, you know, you. When I went through, we went to ift, or initial flight training, which is basically like a screener. If you can't, they give you basically, you know, a month and a half to get your private pilot's license. If you can't knock out a private pilot's license in that short amount of.

[A]

Time by doing this as a full time job.

[B]

Yeah, that was it.

[A]

Yeah, you better be able to do it in a month and a half.

[B]

Yeah. And so it was. It was kind of like a minor screening process. Even though, like, just to get to the point where you get a pilot slot in the Air Force. It is insane. It's cutthroat, you know, not cutthroat. Nobody's out there stabbing each other in the back. But it's super competitive. It's super competitive, you know, so there's already a certain amount of screening that goes even before you get your pilot slot. So this is just like another way. But, you know, you're doing this at a little class D airport.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

You know, where you got a bunch of. You got nothing going on, and so you have all the time in the world. And the radio sounds like it's just an easy day. And the first time in. In tweets, you know, just in the pattern, I was like, oh, I'm not gonna make it. Like, there's so much going on and I have no idea what they just said on the radio, you know, and then you get used to that.

[A]

Isn't it wild how you get. I've flown around a little bit in the helicopter with my wife, and she'll. We'll be talking and the radio will kick off and she'll stop. I'm like, you're good. Like, I can listen to both of you at the same time.

[B]

I immediately knew it wasn't for me. Keep going.

[A]

She's just like, what is that? I'm like, that's actually a guy three airports down. It's a shared frequency. She's like, how what? I'm like, you just keep chatting. I'll let you know if I need to say something.

[B]

Yeah. It's amazing how your essay, your situational Awareness grows as you do something. And I'm sure it was the same thing. You know, when you're going through buds and, and further iterations of training, you're just so impressed and amazed with the instructors and how much they're able to, you know, pinpoint what you did at, you know, minute 15 of the last iteration that screwed all this other stuff. And they can tell you all the little things. And I remember thinking the same thing. Like, before I went to pilot training, you know, they sent us as casual lieutenants because there's just always such a backlog to get into pilot training. So I was in a fighter squadron for not quite a year, and I got all the rides I wanted in an F16. You know, it was. It was pretty awesome. It was fun. I. And even with that, I always knew I wanted to be a helicopter pilot. But, you know, it's a sexy world in the fight.

[A]

Did you keep that part to yourself?

[B]

Kind of.

[A]

I'm just saying sometimes it's better to keep personal aspirations personal.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Especially in that. Especially in that world. Because fighter pilots, I'm sure you've.

[A]

I've been around a few.

[B]

You've been around a few? Yeah, you know, they. It's a different. It's a different community.

[A]

Agreed.

[B]

So, yeah, I wasn't necessarily, you know, broadcasting or shouting it from the rooftops, but there were ideas. You know, I think, I think somebody on the litho, when I left that unit, somebody mentioned like, hey, we'll see you back here in the real calf, not in that stupid rotary wing crap.

[A]

You know, I'm like, okay, until they eject and need to get picked up, and then perhaps they'll be very grateful. So where to go after the tweets?

[B]

So after tweets? Well, I mean, I think the original point of bringing that up is they told us in tweets, like, you will never go to anything more archaic than this, so eat it up. You know, it's all gonna get easier from here on out. Then I went to Huey's, which is.

[A]

Probably way more archaic.

[B]

Which was way more archaic. We still had nd's.

[A]

Uh, one.

[B]

Yeah, we still had ndbs in the, in the Huey, which for the listeners.

[A]

A non directional beacon, which I would die if I had to do an NDB approach right now. But I had to do them for my instrument rating. Yeah.

[B]

And on top of that, our instructors were all Vietnam era pilots.

[A]

Mustaches?

[B]

Oh, yeah, just handlebar huge individuals. We're talking like, hell, yeah. Very, very big individuals. But I mean, These were. These were like.

[A]

That was your first chopper was a Huey.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It was awesome. It was amazing.

[A]

There's two of them over at the airport where I fly there with the fire service. God, I love the sound of the blade.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Swap of a.

[B]

My dad will still be like, you know.

[A]

God, I love it.

[B]

Thump his chest as he's doing it to.

[A]

Is it true that if you do an auto rotation, one of those things, you can set it down and you still have enough collector to pull it up and do a 180?

[B]

Yeah, it depends on what you're doing. And that was. I haven't thought about that in forever. We did touchdown auto rotations in Huey's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they filled the skids with. With rubber, a dense rubber, and they put these titanium. Yeah, they put these titanium skids or, you know, shoes underneath the skid. Yeah. Because, you know, we beat the crud out of those things.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you can misjudge it a little bit. You only get one pull.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I have seen. I have. I have seen Huey's destroyed in students with students trying to do auto rotations.

[A]

I have heard that that airframe above almost all else, just for whatever reason, retains an incredible amount of energy on an auto.

[B]

It's. It's so much easier to auto rotate a Huey than it is a Blackhawk, I think.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. There's generations of technology between those two things.

[B]

It really is. Well, they're supposed to be now. There is with the newer Whiskey model. You know, that thing is amazing. Never got to fly it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I had moved on from that or from flying at that point. But, yeah, the Huey is a blast. So much fun to fly.

[A]

How much did you fly that? And what was the next airframe after that?

[B]

Then I went to initial qual, which was 60s.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

HH60, the golf model.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And. And then we still didn't have glass cockpits in that thing.

[A]

Steam cages work, man.

[B]

It does. It works great. Yeah, it works great. The only interesting thing. Or not interesting, but it's funny having a steam gauge because, you know, when we fly with 50 cals, and if those 50 cals are anywhere forward of like 30 degrees, you can watch the needles bounce every. With every shot.

[A]

Maybe bouncing from, like, green to yellow, you know, and returning.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. As long as it's bouncing in the right range, not as I bouncing.

[A]

And then it, like, goes. What happened? Which then you'd probably still be okay because the needle probably just broke. But.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm sure you Know what I'm talking about? Like, if you've ever stood in front of a large caliber weapon, man, it's like getting slapped in the face. It's like getting, you know, because your eyes go a little fuzzy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the. When you're flying with 50 cals and the gunners know this, if you're fly. If you're firing forward, it. It is it. It beats the pilot up a little bit.

[A]

It. Yeah.

[B]

Because it's right here. And you know, you're. You're inside that, that wedge.

[A]

Yeah. With the crew chief and let him know what's up. I had a guy crack off a Barrett 50 cal sniper rifle once. It has this.

[B]

Yeah. The.

[A]

The unbelievable muzzle break. I did not have my ear pro on at the time. I had a headache for a good three days. I felt like a donkey had kicked me in the head. It scared the crap out of me.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I was not pleased with that.

[B]

But it's nice for us being able to fire off the nose. But you, you just know it's gonna. You're gonna take a little bit of a beating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not too bad, but it's not fun either. It's not something I would be like, yeah, sign me up.

[A]

I do love the 60s. I got a good amount of time in hawks of every from Seahawk to Blackhawk to what are the average.

[B]

Call them Pavehawk, of course.

[A]

Why can't they all.

[B]

I know it's the same, same, same basic helicopter.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's the same basic helicopter that the 1/60th flies. As far as what we put on it and all the bells and whistles and self defense systems, things like that.

[A]

I think they're amazing. I love it.

[B]

It's great. I've never flown a slick 60, which I can only imagine would be like driving around in a Corvette.

[A]

What were they with all this stuff on? A little bit more sluggish.

[B]

A lot more sluggish.

[A]

Yeah. Because it's just weight. Right. And drag.

[B]

The 60 was originally. And we're going back in time now, but I think it was 186 for max gross weight. Yeah. We flew around at 22.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When, when I first started flying, they were getting cracks in the 308 beam, which is one of the structural support beams of helicopter. And that would down the helicopter.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like that's not a good thing.

[B]

Yeah. And in fact, when they first started happening, they down the fleet by the time I finished, you know, it was just, you know, you're just making sure that the 308 beam cracks had been checked and they're monitoring them in maintenance and.

[A]

No, no, I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like the monitor and.

[B]

Maintain because, you know, they just, they, they put panels or little plates over.

[A]

The cracks and then if that plate sheared, then, you know, the crack is worse.

[B]

Well, no, because it would just transfer the force somewhere else. It's like, it's like in motocross, you know, they started, they get better and better boots and then they go further up and so it just transfers the force from your ankles to your knees and then to your hips. So, you know, it's we. And we're not out there flying them in some kind of casual manner too.

[A]

No, you guys are bending those.

[B]

You're out there beating the crud out of them. I think in 2009 we were in the Hellman Helman province and in one three month period I think we went through 12 motors just because the, the round names. Yeah. Well, just not even over torquing them but you know, you're landing to these unprepared sites.

[A]

Oh, just ingesting all that.

[B]

Yeah, ingesting all that debris and hay and sand which turns the glass which, you know, hardens on the turbines and.

[A]

Yeah, none of that is good for performance.

[B]

Yeah. So you just, you monitor, you know, we do these hit checks, you know, before every flight and you know, when it hits a certain range, you're like, all right, it's time to get a new, new engine.

[A]

What do you. Did you see the video footage of the helicopter that came apart in Flight and New York recently? The, the one, it was a tourist helicopter. What do you think happened there? I hate to make guesses, but the.

[B]

Fact that it started spinning mean to me it's either a tail rotor issue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or because that's what.

[A]

And then the, I mean the blade, the main blades came off too. Like that thing came apart.

[B]

I haven't, I haven't. I didn't see that before. So I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. But if it's it. I did see something where it was spinning and if it's spinning, to me that's a torque issue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The tail rotor is no longer pushing, whether it's a push or a pull, but it's, it's, you know, it's no longer countering the torque of the main rotor blade. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It seems like when it goes bad in helicopters, one, you're generally closer to the ground and there's no airplane will Kind of glide for a little bit. Not that it's not going to go bad for you, but. Yeah. Closer to the ground, there are some really gnarly helicopter crashes out there on video, and most of them are in my Instagram feed at this point. So I get to do a little after action review and be like, oh, how do I make sure I never do that?

[B]

Yeah. Helicopters are just, they're, they're, they want to beat themselves to death, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you ever seen the. Where they put the camera at the root of a blade? Main rotor blade.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Looking at how much it's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's moving or the lead and the.

[A]

Lag and the flex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really enjoy flying them. I wish I knew more about the maintenance cycle and how to look at it myself. To rely upon those. Way more trained than myself and actually, yeah, yeah, it was, it was weird.

[B]

Too, because, you know, when you go from tweets to Huey's, then into the. The 60. In Huey's, we didn't have flight engineers. We didn't. It was just, you know, the instructor and two students. And so we did all the pre flights. We did all. So we knew so much more about the helicopter. Then you go to the, you went to the 60 and now we have flight engineers and gunners. So they're all SMAs now, special missions aviators. And I think the pilot loses a certain amount.

[A]

So they're doing all the walk around.

[B]

Pilots, they're doing the walk arounds. Pilot will do a generic walk around just to look for things that are out of place. And you're checking, you're checking, you know, specific things here and there. But, but in general, like the, the FE or the SMA is the one who's really making sure that that helicopter is good to go before, before you take off.

[A]

Yeah, it's been cool. It's been one of the most interesting and fun ways to explore Montana.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I bet. I can't even imagine what it would be like flying around here.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

It was probably like flying around Afghanistan. There's no one shooting at you, which is preferable. Yeah.

[A]

Hunting season is right now, though, so, I mean, it's. I mean, you never catch a winger off a rock.

[B]

We used to get shot at in Dothan, Alabama, out near Fort Rucker.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because farmers don't like you flying over their chicken coops?

[A]

Or did you ever return the favor? Just a little. Just quick, just burp. Yeah, just give him just one little burst off the old minigun.

[B]

No, no, The, The Huey that we were flying, they didn't. We didn't roll armed.

[A]

Well, that should obviously be changed. I agree. Yeah. So did you do your full 20?

[B]

I did. I. Just shy of 22.

[A]

Why'd you decide to get out?

[B]

We were done. We were just done.

[A]

It's a real thing.

[B]

Yeah, we. They wanted me. The reason I kind of hemmed and hot a little bit when you. You asked about my. My rank is I had a strat. You know, I was a number one strat for my next promotion board. I turned it down. I was like, hey, don't burn that on me. I. I don't want it.

[A]

It's not an uncomfortable.

[B]

I don't need to. I don't need to promote, you know, and, and you get a strat. I was working for the Defense Intelligence Agency at the time, and, you know, a civilian two star equivalent gives you a strat. You're promoting. And, you know, that conversation with the 06 who was back in D.C. who was working that for us was very interesting. My wife was just like, you know, eating popcorn because I'm talking to this guy probably in a way that no one's ever talked to him before because he's trying to tell me to do my own prf. You know, your promotion recommendation file folder. I don't remember anymore. I was like, I don't care. You can just write, you know, doesn't wish to promote. That's all you have to do. He's like, well, you know, fill it out and, and get it sent back to me and, and we'll get it taken care of. I was like, no, I don't think you're understanding me, sir. I'm. I don't care about promoting, you know, so I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna fill anything out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's like, oh, so you're gonna make me do the work? And I was like, well, actually, sir, it is your job to fill out the prf.

[A]

Oh, yeah, he's not gonna like that particular.

[B]

No, he wasn't. He wasn't too happy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I had an awesome boss at the time. The 06 I was working for at the embassy. Great dude derby, old F16 pilot. And they ran into each other at a. Some event in Ramstein. And this guy tried coming down on me. He's like, oh, profit works for you, huh? And he's like, yeah. He's like, yeah, that guy's a piece of work, isn't he? And my boss had none of it. You know, he had My back. And he's like, look, dude, this guy's retiring, and if anything, he's turned it up and he's working harder. You know, he hasn't checked out like a lot of people. Now, if he had said that six months later, six months closer to my retirement. Yeah, I checked out.

[A]

Yeah. So you were in Europe when you got out of the military?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How does that work? Does the. Is the military obligated to fly you back to the States? If you want them to, yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So your. Your final. Final PCs or final move, they'll move you to wherever you want to go. Cool.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, I was in the U. I mean, I was stationed in San Diego when I got out, which is where I lived, and I. It's like Deuces Naval Air Station, North Island.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

DD214 in pocket and freaking see you later.

[B]

That was about the. The nicest thing, but. Because retiring out of an embassy sucks. Like, you know, you can go stand on somebody's desk when you're at the same location, you know, if they're not taking care of your paperwork. Yeah, but being at an embassy, man, you're somebody else's problem. And that was for everybody. Everybody thought you were somebody else's problem.

[A]

And did you move back to Spokane upon leaving?

[B]

Yeah. My wife is from the Spokane area, so since we got married, that's always been our home away from home.

[A]

How long have you been out now?

[B]

A year in August.

[A]

What did you think that you wanted to do when you got out? Was it what you're doing now?

[B]

No, I was originally in a master's program for. I was going to get another master's degree in teaching and go teach high school Spanish and French. And my wife was like, hey, you've been pushing pretty hard for the last 22 years. Maybe take a breather before you jump. Right. Because it was gonna start. I was on terminal.

[A]

Just run.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I have had my breather now. It's been a year.

[A]

Wife's kidding. That wasn't.

[B]

Yeah, I know that. She can't blame me on that one, because she's, you know, she's part of the reason why I decided that it was something we needed to do when I was first approached, because it wasn't. I didn't just decide. I didn't wake up one morning and say, I'm going to run for office. Somebody approached me after knowing a little bit about me, what I stood for, my. You know, what I had been in charge of and done or accomplished in the past, said hey, you know, they actually asked me, you know, I'll bet you're pretty intellectually bored right now. And I was like, yeah, you could. You could say that a little bit. And she's like, you should run for office. And I immediately rejected it out of hand. Just like, nah. No, thanks. Because even though I told you I had, my wife and I had thought about public office at whatever level, there was no. There was no level attached to that. We just thought, you know, it'd be another way to continue serving. And that's what I thought about teaching as well. It's another way to continue. Yeah. So, you know, I rejected it immediately, but then started to think about it and talk with my wife about it because she's smarter than I am. You know, she always helps me see things.

[A]

That's the way for guys much more clearly. You got to punch up.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

You got to punch outside your way.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we, you know, we came to the conclusion that we're not necessarily happy with the direction of the country. Not now specifically, but over the last, like, 15 years. It just seems like people are getting more and more contentious and. But maybe it's the bot farms.

[A]

I think the bot farms, I don't.

[B]

Know if they add to it, they make it worse.

[A]

I was gonna say I don't know if they're the flame, but I do think they're an accelerant. I don't think it's. I don't think it's causal, but it's corollary, for sure.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I'd agree with that. But we came to the conclusion that we sure like to complain about things, about the fact that people seem to have lost their voice, the power. The representatives are more interested in pleasing party leadership or they're big donors than they are taking care of the people that elected them into office. And so we came to the conclusion that if we're given the opportunity to do something bigger, to make an impact, to fight for something that we believe in, and we don't take that opportunity, then I lose the right to complain about it.

[A]

I agree with that. It's easy to sit there and complain about everything that is not going well. And it is shocking how many people are unwilling to lift a finger to change anything about it. I'm not saying everybody should run for office, but.

[B]

No, but there's so much more you could do. So much more you do, even just being educated on who you're voting for. If that's all you do, imagine how different the world would be. Right now. Or imagine how different the US would be right now. Because right now people basically look at party line. They look at who has what letter next to their name and they know what letter is next to their own personal name. And so they just. Down the line it's either all R or all D. Do you think there's.

[A]

Room for a third party? It's interesting you're choosing to run as an independent and I'm not an expert in our electoral system but I have heard enough people say, say and I have watched enough elections play out that the independent is not often the one that is elected.

[B]

No, no. But I think we're at a different point in time. Independence. It's not like the Ross Perot of old.

[A]

You know his hand drawn papers were amazing though.

[B]

Yeah, no, I mean Ross Perot was a. Ross Perot was a. I think he was genuinely good dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know, he was maybe ahead of his time as far as like seeing, you know, this two party system seems more like a failed experiment than a functioning government.

[A]

People kind of did look at him as a little bit of a nut job at the time, didn't they?

[B]

Yeah, but now you get more and more people and I don't have the numbers memorized but like there's a major, not a majority, but it's close to 50% in fact it might be 49% right now of people that identify more than anything as independent and not so much that they would actually go change their registration, but they look at what's happening in the Republican Party and they look at what's happening in the Democratic Party and you said it earlier, and they feel like, well, neither of these.

[A]

Equally unrepresented.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Neither of these jokers are doing what benefits me and my community and my neighbors. So, you know, more and more people are wishing for another option. And I think one of the benefits of being an independent is I don't have to please party leadership. I won't take, you know, big corporate donations or things like that because I'm not going to be beholden to them. I firmly believe that our elected representatives should only hear the voice of their people.

[A]

How many?

[B]

I don't, Sorry, I don't want to say. Only because you have to listen to experts, you have to listen to industry because you know, that's all, it's all part of the community. But the largest voice that any representative should be listening to is the voice of the people.

[A]

How many currently sitting congressmen are independent?

[B]

Not a lot. I'm not sure. What?

[A]

Michael, can you look that up? Not. Not like they're doing their job right now anyway, but yeah.

[B]

What are your thoughts on that?

[A]

The old government shutdown. As somebody who wants to get into the game, currently you would be getting a vacation, I believe they call it paid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Isn't it weird how I've heard a.

[B]

Lot of people say that they should be the last ones to get a paycheck? And I am so 100 on board.

[A]

Another idea. Let's. Let's. I accept that premise. How about this? If you allow the government to shut down, you are immediately no longer eligible for reelection.

[B]

I like it. I like it. I like term limits. I like that.

[A]

Your job to work in.

[B]

Accountability.

[A]

Common ground for this country.

[B]

It's accountability. Guess how many government shutdowns would be once that rule is in place?

[A]

Zero.

[B]

Zero. Never gonna have. Never gonna have. Therefore, another government shutdown.

[A]

Okay, so four current sitting members of Congress who are registered as Independent. Two in the Senate, Angus King and Bernie Sanders at the Burn. Two in the House of Representatives who are not specified in the snippets provided, but are listed in the search results. What?

[B]

Yeah. What is that?

[A]

I don't even know what that means. What do those words even mean?

[B]

Joe Manchin.

[A]

And important notes. Some members who are elected as independent may caucus with the majority major party. That makes sense. Like King and Sanders who caucus with Democrats.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joe Manchin and Kristen. Cinema or cinema.

[B]

Cinema.

[A]

Cinema. I think. I think I never would have gotten there on my own, if I'm being honest. Who were previously elected as Democrats, switched independent and status 2020. Okay, so 4. That is not a lot. It is not a lot. And like it says, they oftentimes will caucus with one of the main two parties anyway. So I bet you most people would probably just assume that they are an equal part of that party.

[B]

I won't lie. I'm pretty plugged in to. I pay attention. I read the news. You know, as an attache, you had to know what's going on. And it's a hard habit to break. It's a hard habit to. You know, I'm a news junkie. Even with that, I didn't know Bernie Sanders was an independent until within the last year.

[A]

I would have guessed a Democrat. Yeah, yeah. And I don't say that negatively. No, no.

[B]

It's just because he caucuses with the Democrats. You know, that's a question I get a lot is who are you going to caucus with?

[A]

And we need a different word for that. Right.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Can we have Something. Because Again, as a 48 year old idiot, I'm like, what did you just say? Yeah, what are you going to do? Yeah, I'd be like, hey, Michael, who do you caucus with? How about we just say, who do you meet with?

[B]

Yeah, well, it's, it's, to me, it's like, who are you going to work with?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And to me, as an independent way.

[A]

If you described it as that, the average American would understand that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Go out to your average American to include myself and say, what does it mean when you caucus with somebody? And they're like, yeah, I can't talk about that here. That's adult rated content.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. But if you want to simplify it, it's like, who are you going to work with?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the answer should be everybody. Exactly. To me, it's okay. My priority is always going to be Washington's 5th district. And so every time I think of who am I going to work with? I'm going to think of the needs of Washington's 5th district. And if that means I'm working with this group over here of Republicans because they're pushing legislation that will benefit Washington's 5th district, okay, on that issue, I'm with them. If the next issue lines up with the Democrats, guess what, I'm going to work with them. Because at the end of the day, what matters to me and what matters, what should matter to all of the representatives is what is important for your district, for your state. And if you're not asking that question instead, and you're instead asking, well, what do my party leadership want me to do? You know, when you get threats like, well, if you vote with the other party, we're going to primary you, we're gonna, we're gonna run somebody against you because it's more important to them to toe the line with their party than it is to work for the district.

[A]

What does the person do when they're told that that's a real gnarly spot to be in? Because I, I want to believe. I know some people. I have known some people. I do know some people who I served with them before in the military. They got out and they went into politics. And I want to believe, and maybe I'm rounding edges a little bit, but let's just say the vast majority did not use an absolute. Felt like, I feel like they would describe exactly what you said. They want the best for the people that they represent. And they would talk about, to me, what you're talking about being able to work with both sides I would just define that as being reasonable. Yeah, I, I don't. That to me is not an extreme concept and I don't, shouldn't be. Yeah. And I don't know what happens in the, in the halls of Congress and in the Senate, but I am of the belief or am trending towards the belief that the system is actually rigged against people who want to do that and they end up with that question or they end up in a room and somebody who's been there, like Nancy Pelosi, who's been serving for 198 years.

[B]

The last time I checked, I think it's actually 199. I'm not positive, but too long.

[A]

Can we get some fresh blood? Here's another rule I'd like. This is a total tangent. Both presidential candidates are not allowed to have a combined age over 150. How about this?

[B]

I think we should even move that a little bit in the other direction.

[A]

That was just covering the last one and I actually think it was like 160 something. How about both candidates, maximum age combined 100. You can run an 80 year old, but the other dude, that'd be 20.

[B]

So we gotta go back to 37. Cause that's how we're gonna change that one too.

[A]

Listen, you can run a 90 year old, but you're going up against a guy in grade school, against an adolescent. I worry that the systems that are in place and the power brokers that are in place are so entrenched that even somebody who comes in with I am going to everything you described and then they try to do that and at the end of the first week they end up in a little knock on the door. Right. And whatever power broker comes in, they're like, listen, you are going to support your party and caucus with us, whatever it may be. Or yeah. Or we're going to primary you and get rid of you. What does that person do? Because what if they are, if that other person has the ability to primary them and get rid of them, they are on an egg timer and they're actually not going to be able to accomplish any of the things that they ran on, which is not going to be their fault necessarily because they're going to be ejected. But that just means that the system is broken.

[B]

I agree. So having not having gone through that yet, can I get back to you in a year? Yeah, can I get back to you in a year and a couple of months? I'm being optimistic here. I think we have a good shot. I think there's A lot.

[A]

We're gonna need a safeguard. It should be pineapple.

[B]

Is it upside down pineapple or is it just pineapple?

[A]

It's just pineapple in general. Just so it can be broad.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I. And the reason I say that I think that that system is the way that it is is that I've seen changes in the people that I knew before.

[B]

Yeah. I think people show up with good intentions.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

By no means do I think people run. There are probably people that do. But in general, I don't think they run in an effort to gain power for themselves or enrich their own. I think some doctor, I think some do, but I think in general, most of them, they want to do good things. They want to make people's lives better.

[A]

I think if you're in there for your 40th year, you might fall into the latter category.

[B]

Agree.

[A]

Because things have termed in my life.

[B]

Term limits are absolutely a thing that I'm going to push for.

[A]

I don't think we survive without them.

[B]

I think there's going to be a lot of people when I get in that are going to hate my guts because I'm not going to sit there quietly. I'm gonna make noise and I'm gonna point out things that I've thought as a regular citizen for so long and then they, you know, when you get there, it feels like they've forgotten all those things that they complained about that they didn't like and they just get on the train and start doing, you know, the same crud. So term limits. Absolutely. Like I don't know what the right answer is on how many. I think somewhere in the neighborhood of five for Congress, for the House. Because how long is it? That's ten years. It's two years. Two years per term. If you can't make change, like real change in 10 years, sorry, it's time for new blood. It's time for somebody who's a little more plugged in, a little more connected to come in and give it a shot.

[A]

What would that, what would the mechanism actually be for term limits to be established?

[B]

I think you. It's, it's just like everything else. It's. It's got to be passed in a law.

[A]

So somebody's got to, somebody in the Senate or Congress.

[B]

Somebody has to write a bill and get co sponsors and get everybody on board.

[A]

Michael? Yes. Most of the time, I'll be honest with you, I don't think he's paying attention. He's drawing right now.

[B]

I guarantee you he's writing for the whatever. Can you google.

[A]

I'm just fascinated. I wonder if term limits have been attempted before. They have and I want to.

[B]

Every once in a while somebody will put it out.

[A]

Pull up for you because I'm interested to know how many times have term limits attempted to be. Would it be instilled, installed, put into law?

[B]

Instigated.

[A]

Instigated. Who knows? It's a word that I wouldn't know how to use properly anyway. So we'll just make some stuff.

[B]

It's. It's similar to every once in a while somebody will propose legislation to drug test members of Congress.

[A]

Oh, they don't get drug tested.

[B]

No.

[A]

I mean I'm sure though that they're.

[B]

How are they going to party?

[A]

No, that's not what they're there for. They're there to serve the people.

[B]

Yeah. Supposed to be.

[A]

I want to believe we're still at a place in our system where term limits could happen. I don't know if we could get that many people to vote against their own personal self interest.

[B]

So here's the thing. I think, I think how you do it. And again I'm no expert. I'm just, I'm, I'm new into this, to this world.

[A]

Dozens of times at the state level through ballot initiatives and legislative actions. Multiple times at the federal level through constitutional amendment attempts and historically since the nation's founding for the presidency culminating in the 22nd Amendment limiting imperial terms. Yep.

[B]

And you know what's crazy? It gets ridiculous bipartisan support, everybody. Term limit says term limits. Yeah.

[A]

Where does it get shut down then?

[B]

I just mean like people. Oh yeah, regular people, we all want term limits. But then these jokers get up there into their offices and I don't know if it's the same thing that knock on the door their first week and they're like, look, we saw your campaign. We saw you said term limits.

[A]

It was real cute.

[B]

We're going to primary show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Time to, time to. You know, you can, you can give that lip service every once in a while. You can say something about it. We're not going to tell you can't say it anymore.

[A]

But here's how you're going to vote on the next 10 bills.

[B]

Yeah. I, I think, I think that has to be what is happening. And I would, you know that that.

[A]

Was found out to be in existence. I would not. My shock level would be at a zero percent.

[B]

No, no. But here's the thing. I keep saying here's the thing. Like I have this, I have the silver bullet I don't know if I do, but I think it's all about transparency. You know, how many times in your job, in your career were you told to do something without being told the why and it pissed you off? And then later you were told to do something very similar, but they took the time to explain why. Which one pissed you off? Which one didn't?

[A]

The one without the why. This goes right back to the extreme ownership and talking about leadership in general.

[B]

Yep. So you get transparency in there and people will all of a sudden put up with a lot more. Like taxes. Ever notice how ads always pop up at the worst moments when the killer's.

[A]

Identity is about to be revealed during.

[B]

That perfect meditation flow On Amazon Music, we believe in keeping you in the moment. That's why we've got millions of ad free podcast episodes. So you can stay completely immersed in every story, every reveal, every breath. Download the Amazon music app and start listening to your favorite podcasts, ad free included with Prime. Those are necessary evil, right? You got to pay taxes. We want roads, we want schools, we want all the stuff that comes from paying for taxes. Would you say that the tax code is transparent?

[A]

I think it is.

[B]

By design, super opaque.

[A]

Opaque and honestly obscure. Where the people who want to take the most benefit hire the experts with the best understanding. Because again, most of the words in the tax code falls back into things I don't understand, which is why I use an accountant.

[B]

Yeah, no, but I mean, if, but if you. If we take the tax code and we simplify it, we get rid of loopholes, we get rid of, with all these, get rid of all these things that allow people to sidestep, you know, paying for the same roads that they dry, they want to drive on every day.

[A]

What do you think about a flat tax?

[B]

So, flat taxes. I'm not an expert, I'm not an expert on it.

[A]

And honestly, the concept though, yeah, on.

[B]

Its surface it always sounds like a good deal. I was just looking at this the other day, actually. Flat taxes disproportionately affect lower income people because we're, you know, we're the ones out there buying all the. Or. I'm not smart enough on this, so I don't want to. I don't want to get myself in trouble.

[A]

Why not? It's just the Internet.

[B]

I know what could possibly happen. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Nobody would ever be a meme. Tomorrow put this up and send it to your right.

[B]

There's going to be a TV commercial from Michael Baumgartner talking so disproportionately it disproportionately affects, okay, middle and lower income people than it, you know, it, it hurts, it hurts some people more than others.

[A]

I mean, maybe on its surface it.

[B]

Looks great, but I'm not smart enough to tell you why or how.

[A]

Maybe there's a way you could. I mean, we have tax brackets now, but I don't know, 5% for the lowest, whatever. I mean, again, that would be at least. Well, again, on its surface, that would be so much more.

[B]

It'd be simpler.

[A]

It would be simpler. But then there's ways to hide complexity in that as well too. Right. Because that's when you can make hybrid.

[B]

I think, I think hybrid systems where you've got the flat tax, but then you've got other things that again, I should, I should lead off, I should have let off with, I will never be the smartest person in the room.

[A]

You don't have to be, ever.

[B]

But what I do know how to do really well is build a team. And I know how to surround myself with the experts. I know how to surround myself with the people that do have the answers. I'm not afraid to say I don't know because, you know, I, I say this a lot. The word ignorant has become largely a pejorative term, you know, largely negative. But we are all, to a person, more ignorant about so many more things than we are knowledgeable. Oh, yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. You can't expect everybody to be an expert about everything. So when it comes to taxes, there are better ways to do it than what we're doing right now. I don't have the education or the background or experience to write that myself, but I know how to find those people. And other than very few individuals where this system really benefits them, everybody recognizes the need to do it. I'm not naive. I understand that it's going to be very difficult to do it. I understand that it's going to take a lot of, you know, cajoling and convincing to make it happen. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't make the effort. And it feels like right now a lot of times what gets said is, well, you have no idea how difficult it would be to change it. That's not a reason not to change it.

[A]

Yeah, that's not really an obstacle that you should just look at and say, I guess I'm not going to try. And then there's the other side of that too. Right. So taxes being the income that the country is making, spending would be another really good Place to take a look at what we're doing. Perhaps we could like a water faucet, a little tweakage. Right. If the water's a little too hot, we can cool it off. Again, we were having this conversation yesterday. You know, the current administration, you love them or hate them, there's some things that they ran on. Debt reduction being one of those. And last I checked, it is still on an Elon Musk rocket ship headed toward $40 trillion. Which is a problem that if we don't get our hands around pretty damn soon.

[B]

You know, in the last like nine months, we've added 2 trillion in nine months.

[A]

Yeah, but you want to know the reality? I don't understand that number.

[B]

Nobody does. And that's why such a big number.

[A]

And I think that's why people, when they hear that, they go, okay, awesome.

[B]

Now what?

[A]

I'm going to go get a latte.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Because that. I think that's less than $2 trillion. Yeah. Nine months. And again, we were talking about this yesterday too. I was so. I loved the idea of Doge, what it has become. In actuality, I'm not even sure if they're still dojing.

[B]

Yeah, the execution, like the idea.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

Needed. Yeah, the execution, really poor. My wife is a federal employee.

[A]

Well, they just got started. They didn't even finish. And it's just poof. Because Elon's not running around the chrome plated chainsaw national TV anymore.

[B]

It's that transparency we were talking about.

[A]

Yeah. You know, and there are ways to do it. Not everything is a broadsword problem. There should be some scalp. Was your wife impacted by the dojing?

[B]

So she got a phone call from her boss.

[A]

I was hoping you're gonna say Elon Musk. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

She got a phone call from Elon. He said, look, no.

[A]

Which for a while, I think he.

[B]

Was her boss technically, probably, but she got a phone call from her boss after they got some emails because she works for bpa, which is the Bonneville Power Administration, which is part of Department of Energy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But they're self funded, so it's a government entity. And I'm probably gonna screw all this up. My wife later is gonna be like, you're an idiot. You should never talk about my job again. But they basically are the. I'm. I'm oversimplifying the crud out of this, basically because I don't know how it really works, but they're the brokers for power in the region. I think it's for like eight different States. So they own the dams, own the, you know, the power generation, and they work with the people that own the lands where the water is. So they, they work with the tribes, they work with. With everybody. They work with farmers who then pay or, you know, build up contracts to get what they need, the power. They need all this stuff. So through that they're able to fund themselves. So they're not. They don't receive federal funding for them.

[A]

Even though they're a federal entity. Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Today's episode is brought to you by Element. I'm just going to hold this up and read it. This is what it comes in. If you get their packets, they have a variety of expressions in this. They have a bubbling, sparkly water which is fantastic in 16 and 12 ounce with a variety of flavors. But here's what you get. 1,000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium and 60 milligrams of magnesium. This is an electrolyte drink mix. You would not think that something that comes here. I'll open this up and show you how small of a packet this is. But this is actually important to show because this goes in my fanny pack, this goes in my backpack. This goes in my suitcase. Getting ready to go to Costa Rica. As I record this, I'll be taking about two of those boxes so I don't die. You wouldn't think that something that comes in a container this small would be life staining, life sustaining and life improving. The difference, though, when I train hard and I focus on consuming electrolytes afterwards. Holy cow. It's like as if you can feel the energy coursing through your veins. Let's go over to their website real fast here. Lemonade salt is the first thing you're gonna see up top. I can't recommend this enough. It tastes like the salt or the salt. It tastes like the lemonade that I used to have when I was a kid. It's fantastic. What's cool here is you're gonna get a free sample pack if you go to drinklmnt.com cleared hot. That's the offer that comes with the show. Here's all the reasons right here why you would want to do this. Drives energy production, sharpens focus and clarity, boost recovery and sleep quality, and protects against cramping. There's some smart people like, I don't know. Who is this guy? Andrew Huber, man. Oh, yeah. Probably one of the smartest dudes that I've ever heard talk about science. And I'll just let him. You know explain why he thinks they're beneficial if you listen to his show a bit for the same reasons, but he uses words that are way bigger than the words that I know. Free sample pack with any purchase. These are the boxes. The one that I held up over here is the sparkling. These are the 16 ounce cans. You can get them delivered at a frequency that you want. This right here is going to send you four boxes to your house. That's a lot of salt. It's going to last you for a while. Here's some more of an explanation as to what the product actually does. All I can tell you is this. I'm not a scientist. I'm not a PhD. My last name's not Huberman. I'm a 48 year old man doing my best to struggle through life. I exercise hard to try to keep the, the grip of gravity and age away. And when I don't supplement after training with Element, I feel like I'm going to die. When I do supplement, I feel like I'm going to die a little bit less. There's no magic in any of this. But man the difference. Let's just say I'm glad that I met Rob Wolf, one of the co founders and he's way smarter than me and explained to me the benefits of this. And ever since then it has been a daily staple drink element.com cleared hot free sample pack with your first order. Go get some up your electrolyte game back to the show. God, maybe that's.

[B]

I didn't even know that existed.

[A]

I maybe has a pretty good business model. See if we can apply that for some other entities. Which I'm not even sure that that would work, but.

[B]

Okay, but so even though they're self funded, DOGE impacted them like, you know, instead of a scalpel, it was just like a sky scythe, you know, somebody just came through scythe, something like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And hacked a lot of things out, you know. So like say you got linemen, I think at the, at the plant or not plant, the, at her offices or out of her office. I think there are two linemen that are directly. And I don't know what the numbers are, but we'll just say two. They got rid of one of them. They fired one of the linemen. Guess what? You can't go out there with one lineman. They have to go out in pairs. And so now you just totally, you've totally rendered, you know, this office's capacity. Even though they're at 50% Manning, they can't do anything because they have to have that other person to do it. Yeah, they fired, like the facilities manager, you know, they just. They haphazardly fired.

[A]

That's my issue with how it was executed. Like in this rush to show this huge number up front, it. They were stepping over dimes to pick up pennies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how, how since they have those.

[B]

People been rehired, they did eventually put in an exemption for BPA and other entities like it, like the Tennessee Valley Authority or whatever, tva, they're similar to bpa.

[A]

Yeah. But when that guidance first comes down, you're so screwed if something happens. So here's the thing.

[B]

You know, you got. You're making forward progress, right. And that's just how these entities have to work. You keep moving forward or you die. And now all of a sudden, they fired all these people and whatever that entity is. And this happened not just at bpa, but like across so many different agencies. But life kept going, you know, but now it's going at a more inefficient rate. And then even for the people that were able to rehire, they've lost so much ground and they have to go back and redo things. And so it ended up costing. It ended up costing more money than it ever saved, at least for them.

[A]

And again, I was. I really liked the idea.

[B]

I agree. You. We were in the military. We saw waste and abuse.

[A]

No, I never did. Not in the Navy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was, I mean, honestly, probably the smoothest, most leanest efficient machine I've ever seen. Yeah.

[B]

You know what? Now that you say that out loud, I think about it and I'm like, yeah, the Air Force was too. We were really good about it. I mean, you remember the freaking war on terror money?

[A]

Oh, it was. That was.

[B]

Did you guys do the same thing we did in the Air Force, like at the end of the year, the fiscal year? Like, ah, we got all this money. Okay. Every office gets a flat screen tv.

[A]

There was no way to run out of money as a supply rep because they would just like, here's an example.

[B]

I got so many headlamps over the years.

[A]

Of course I still have them all. Yeah. I have bags full of bags.

[B]

Yeah, you get your guy that says, hey, come by and pick up your new knives, watches, headlamps, all this stuff. You're like, I still have the four from before. They're like, yeah, but we can't get more stuff unless we get rid of this stuff, so come get it.

[A]

Like skydiving jumpsuits. Custom, custom skydiving jumpsuit. And you would go to get it approved. And, you know, the ops manager would say, well, if you were going to jump. So you're training to. For proficiency and jumping. Yeah. Do you think there's a chance you might jump in Afghanistan? Oh, for sure. Okay, we'll put it in the OEF Alpha bucket.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So you can reverse reverse engineer. I need. I have. I never bought a briefcase while I was in the military, but I bet you you could have reversed. Where would you use the briefcase?

[B]

Oh, I carry my pubs to the.

[A]

Helicopter Sensitive documents for this Louis Vuitton briefcase. And they'd be like, OEF Alpha bucket.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I don't know, bucket is not the appropriate term. The Laurentian Abyss.

[B]

There you go. That's a good way to put it. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. There was always a way. There was always a way.

[B]

You know, or you look at contractors. Contractors or even, you know, GS civilians.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There are people that I saw create a job for themselves and they retire and immediately step into this job that didn't exist yesterday.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's like, well, what are you gonna be doing? Well, I'm gonna do the job I just did. Well, what about the uniform that's gonna replace you in that job?

[A]

And the headcount, which was gonna be. The detailers are gonna handle this.

[B]

Yeah. So there's obviously fraud, waste and abuse out there. And if they had taken that seriously and actually gone through, like you said, with a scalpel, we'd be sitting in a much better spot right now. But they didn't. Yeah, they ham. Fisted it and. And screwed it up. So they lost credibility right off the. Right off the. The word go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and so at that point, transparency doesn't exist. And so you question everything else they're doing. You know, they could have done it so much better. And it's not to say it wasn't needed. It absolutely is needed.

[A]

I think it's still needed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The problem is I think it's dead on the vine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Actually, Michael, can you Google that? Is Doge still doging? I don't even know what term you would use.

[B]

Maybe ask Big Balls. You got his number.

[A]

Oh, God. Didn't he get his ass beat?

[B]

I don't know. Did he really?

[A]

I think no.

[B]

There was another.

[A]

There was another employee who got his ass beat. Yeah. What was your Google search, Michael? Doge still doing anything.

[B]

Is Doge still doging?

[A]

Yeah. What did it say?

[B]

There wasn't an AI summary, so I have to read. Oh, heaven forbid.

[A]

Yeah. Are you going? Do you Need a mental health day.

[B]

Yeah. Actually, can I have you just got.

[A]

Back from Japan and are wearing the same shirt you were wearing yesterday. You do not get a mental. Didn't sway and then it's clean. This is what I have to deal with.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

Okay, people. I'm trying to forge him into a weapon that society's not ready for, and he's just resisting me at every turn. Pull up on the screen. We'll read it together. I feel like the agency still exists, but I think. Oh, well, the first sentence here is great. Whether the Department of Government Efficiency known as Doge is still finding waste is a subject of debate.

[B]

See, that's a transparency problem right there.

[A]

Yeah. And depends on the source. I am going to bet that means it depends on the source whether it leans left or right. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. If you go to Fox News, Doge is doing amazing things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you go to cnn, msnbc, they're the worst that's ever. I mean, and they're both, they're both off base, probably.

[A]

What bugs me about this is I think we desperately needed the spirit of Doge to happen and for it to look at every aspect of the government. And because the execution was as chunky as it was, I think it might be real hard getting that spun up again.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's one of those. You have to make good on your first shot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you're close, then you can keep going. But the way it was executed was just so poor that you'll never get trust in that again. Across the, across the aisle. Everybody thinks that it is. Was. Was so poorly done that I don't know that you ever can recover it.

[A]

And meanwhile, the size, scope and scale of the US Government is beyond personally what I, I don't think the framers and founders ever would have fathomed government that size or service in government for as long as people actually serve in the government. I, I don't think they would have been able to fathom that.

[B]

No, no. Which. Full circle back to term limits. You know, it's. You.

[A]

What would it. I just. What would it take to get those through? I don't think our system is tenable unless we. We can get that in there.

[B]

Well, it's just going to keep hardening people in these different camps, but then.

[A]

The government will shut down again because God forbid there is collaboration or one side is seem to have a victory over the other. Meanwhile. And that's.

[B]

You just said it. One side seems to have a victory over the other.

[A]

That's literally what I feel like it comes down to.

[B]

What we should be saying or where the focus should be is on the people. Like this was a victory for the citizens of this country, not the left or the right. This is a victory for Andy. This is a victory for Aaron and, and, and his neighbors. And, and that's where. Yeah, we can make headway.

[A]

Well, I'm hearing people say too, oh, it's been, you know, 27 days and no change in my life. And I was thinking that too, but then it's. It comes with an asterisk and weight a touch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like two days ago I was reading an article. Air traffic controllers missed their first full paycheck. Military is $8 billion a pay period. Which, whatever put that in the OEF Alpha bucket. I bet it could sustain that.

[B]

But that One billionaire gave $130. $130 million.

[A]

Perfect. And again, that's fixed it. You run the math on that. Yeah, that's way short of $8 billion. Everyday people, they're going to start being impacted, but meanwhile the air traffic controllers, who. People have no understanding the criticality of that role in just the number of flights per day and the number of people moving in commerce and oh, you.

[B]

Shut flights down and you can, you can shut our economy.

[A]

I was gonna say you like your overnight. Amazon will be to you tomorrow if, if you order now, not if the airplanes aren't flying, but meanwhile. So they're still working, by the way. And I'm assuming they'll get paid at some point. But you know as well as I do, I mean, I think it's been 10 years the military, paycheck to paycheck. I don't know what it looks like for atc, but if the military starts missing pay, it's. These are going to have these cascading issues and meanwhile the people who refuse to work together are still getting their paychecks. And it makes me want to take a Molotov cocktail to the building that they work in. I'm not going to do that. That is not a threat in any way, shape or form. I love you, nsa. Who is listening in in real time in this conversation.

[B]

He is not actually advocating.

[A]

I am in no way. I am saying inside in my inside voice which I will never allow outside or to govern my behavior. It makes me rhetorical point. Yeah. It makes me want to say all of you are fired right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we will. The, the, the people of this country are primaring all of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And by the way, you're not one of the eligible candidates in this primary. Yeah.

[B]

So you have to sit it out for the next five terms. You can be re. Eligible.

[A]

Never. No.

[B]

Okay. I like that even.

[A]

Because you know, what if you make them ineligible forever? Or how about this? How about if we can't balance the budget of the government? Same thing. You are all fired. You're all fired. Because I feel like this impossible problem of balancing the budget would become infinitely solvable right quick if we were to.

[B]

Collaborate and work together.

[A]

They would force.

[B]

If you have the threat of losing your job. Yeah. Somehow they're going to find a way to work together.

[A]

Yes, they would.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they want their job.

[B]

And you know, you're gonna lose. You're gonna lose some good people in a system like that. But that is a worthwhile cause, I think, you know, because you're gonna replace all the ones that got fired with a whole bunch of other people that are earnest and care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Knowing. Hey, I just saw that guy get fired for not doing his job. So I'm gonna go talk to Andy, even though ideologically he may be on the other side of the aisle from me.

[A]

But we both seem to want our job.

[B]

But I don't want to get fired.

[A]

Yeah. And I wanted to serve the people who elected me in office the most.

[B]

Yeah. And that's. That's what it should be about. It shouldn't be about I don't want to get fired. It should be about. I want to make sure that. That grandma, you know, is getting what she needs through Medicaid, Medicare. I want to make sure that the schools keep getting the funding that they need. I want to make sure that, you know, I want to make sure we're funding the jobs that matter. Because right now, our elected representatives, I mean, they're not working, so do their jobs matter? Our country's functioning for now.

[A]

Yeah. And again, that will be. That's. There's a finite amount of time where that will happen before it really impacts the average person. And I think when that impact comes, it'll be interesting. I also think you have to get. I think there'll be two phases. The first phase is everybody just got fired, and I want to keep my job, so I'm going to keep doing this. And once they realize that that threat is real and actionable, then we'll start getting people in there who actually are there for the right reasons because they know I can't make a career of this because I'm limited, because there are term limits. Yeah. And I want to do a. It's already been. It's demonstrable that if I don't do a good job, I'm out. So I want to do a good job for the right reasons. But that starts with, you might have to lop off a few heads.

[B]

Yeah, I. I don't disagree with that. I think. I think it's long past time that the people of the country hold our elected representatives accountable. And I read this study a long time ago, and I wish I could remember the details of it, but the gist of it basically was you could definitely see all the problems that are going on in Congress and how they needed to be voted out, except for your specific rep. And it was like this universal thing. Everybody thought the exact same thing. Like, oh, man. Yeah, those dudes are all messed up. They all have problems.

[A]

Not our guy, though.

[B]

But not our guy. Our guy. I like him and I want to see him stick around.

[A]

That's why it has to apply to everybody. Exactly. So what was the moment where you realized you were going to do it? You said somebody approached you, talked to you about it. I'm assuming there was some conversation with your wife.

[B]

Yeah, it was at home talking with my wife. It was that exactly what I was talking about. I have an opportunity to do. Do something. Win or lose. I can shake things up. I can highlight some of the problems throughout this and, you know, if I lose, maybe you're following. You know, you're. You're in the wings waiting and like.

[A]

Oh, you better be pointed.

[B]

So I'm just saying. I'm just saying, like, rhetorically, I was.

[A]

Going to say, is there somebody behind me? This curtain you're pointing at, say.

[B]

Mike.

[A]

Michelle.

[B]

Michelle. He. He's waiting in the wings.

[A]

Are you even old enough to be in Congress? How old do you have to be in. Be in Congress? I don't think so.

[B]

Congress. I think you can be really young. I think there's a. I don't think there's a. I mean, probably a legal.

[A]

Adult, but yeah, I. I would not trust him to be an elected. I don't trust myself to be. He would be. He's a lobbyist wet dream.

[B]

Oh, he's a. Oh, God.

[A]

He would have.

[B]

Pushover.

[A]

Yeah, he would. Whatever.

[B]

Whatever you say, sir.

[A]

Cocktail parties. He would just go out to dinner and then just vote on.

[B]

Just love lobbyists so much.

[A]

Yeah, I'm saying you're malleable. I'm not saying you love lobbyists.

[B]

I hate lobbyists.

[A]

Have you ever met one?

[B]

No, he's nobody.

[A]

Yeah, they're kind of the worst. Right? It's legalized bribery.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why do you have to define it in technical terms like that? That makes it so people can understand and therefore wouldn't like it.

[B]

We want to keep things convoluted and opaque.

[A]

So be a great law. Change the vernacular. So lobbyist lobbying has to be called legal bribery.

[B]

Oh, man, that is good.

[A]

Just. We'll call that the. Say the quiet part out loud bill. And we go through this.

[B]

I'm gonna write that legislation, and when we pass it, you're gonna come out. Oh, I would love. And we're gonna. We're gonna have a big signing party.

[A]

Can you imagine that, though? Because a lot of it is terms people don't understand. They talk around things. It would literally be the. The quiet part out loud. And yeah, lobbyists, you guys are just. It's legal paid bribery.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. Which, of course, doesn't happen in the Capitol building. It happens across the street where the bank of phones are. And we're all. It is insane. So. But how'd you. So you talk.

[B]

It was that. It was. It was just that, you know, we came to the conclusion that we care and service has been something that's important for me. And once I put pause on the. Or press pause on the teaching thing, you know, I was kind of looking for the next thing, the opportunity. Like, if I were King for a Day, the job I would give myself would be teaching leadership, team development, and critical thinking at the university level.

[A]

That would be an amazing course creating people.

[B]

And I would. I would name it how to Work with People and Not Be a Douche. That would be the name of the.

[A]

Course I would go to that course. That would be a page turner and an eye opener.

[B]

Yeah. Because that's the age, and we don't do enough of it. That's the age where these people are now going to start walking out into the real world. You know, they're not under, you know, mom and dad's protective wings anymore or, you know, you know what I mean? But they need to be able to. They need to be able to read the headlines and see what's in between the lines. They need to be able to read it and see, you know, two and three steps down the road, how is this going to impact my life? How is this going to impact my future children's lives or my communities, you know, and, you know, since I'm not king for a day and I can't just give myself a job at the university level teaching, this is an opportunity I have to make real impact, you know, And I can't live with. I couldn't live with myself if I was given an opportunity to do something and I didn't take it. You sat downrange and probably had moments where you're, you know, you could step out of COVID and go help somebody, and you know that it's going to make your life potentially a little more miserable for the next moment, potentially even worse. But you did it anyway because you felt that you were compelled to serve, you were compelled to go help out your teammate. And I see that as the same thing as right now. I have an opportunity. If I don't take it, it's going to be real hard to stomach myself.

[A]

Do you think you will go back to teaching if it doesn't work out? You think you'll finish that track you're on?

[B]

I don't know. It's. I think I'd get in trouble with parents.

[A]

There's a 100 chance you're gonna get in trouble with parents because the kids.

[B]

I think, you know, you asked how old I felt. I do really well with teenagers. I, you know, I get along with them.

[A]

Yeah, we're basically the same age.

[B]

Yeah. But they, they respect me. And, you know, I'm able to, you know, I've worked in my church with teenagers, you know, pretty much my whole life. And, you know, I've always been able to do well with, you know, getting my message across and helping them see what they're supposed to be doing, things like that. The parents are another story. I rarely blame poor, behaving, poorly behaving kids. I usually pin it on the parents. You know, it's almost always, in my opinion, the parents are the reason. Whether it's because of, you know, negligence or, you know, whatever. You can name a million different reasons. Probably kids aren't fully developed, and so they're gonna make stupid decisions and they need guidance from, from parents.

[A]

And they mirror the examples they have in front of them too.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So.

[B]

So even with kids that are kind of punks in the classroom, I can work with that. But when the parents come in and wanna say that their kid is somehow an angel or they don't wanna be involved, there's so many reasons I would get in trouble with parents because it would be tough for me to sit across the desk from them and be like, you're screwing this up by the numbers. It'd be tough for me not to say that.

[A]

I've never understood the theory of parents coming in and saying, my children are angels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or maybe that's just my kids. Because when I go in, I go tell, tell me everything. Yeah, more than likely it's my fault. Give me the greatest hits. And then when they tell me what my children have done, I go, I can see that.

[B]

I can see that.

[A]

That's my bad. Yes. That word that my daughter used in the reading circle when she was eight. Yeah, that's.

[B]

That's my bad. I use that word sometimes. See, for me, it's not going to be language. Nobody believes me when I tell them this. I haven't cussed since the summer between or before my freshman year in high school.

[A]

How do you remember that?

[B]

Because it was very impactful. It was, we were, we had just moved and we were waiting for our house to actually be finished. You know, they were doing something. So we were in an apartment complex. My dad got transferred and God, there was this, this girl. I realize now she was probably just flirting like an idiot, but she was, she was being super annoying. And I may have told her that if she didn't get out of my way, I was going to slap the out of her. And, and I was so mad at myself afterwards, was so angry with myself after I did that, I was like, no more. I'm not doing that ever again. And it sucks because the only reason I don't cuss now is the streak. Not because I can't appreciate the utility of a really good four letter word at the appropriate time.

[A]

You could always start again.

[B]

I know, but you need to end it. How long is that? That's 32 year streak. I have a 32 year streak.

[A]

So you got to end it while you still have time to redo it, to restart it. And then you have to restart it.

[B]

Because let's see, if I, I started, if I. But then how long do I get to do it before I have to restart in order to capture 32 years again?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, so that's. Now you were talking math, so it's easier to just not do it.

[A]

Yeah. So when's the election?

[B]

Not till November of next year.

[A]

So what's your plan between now and then? I mean, obviously doing stuff like this helps get the, gets the message out, but I mean, the core tenants of your campaign. What are you gonna go with?

[B]

So the first thing, and we've talked about it a little bit, the first thing that I really, really care about is bringing the temperature down around all the rhetoric is getting people to realize that that thing where I was talking about, we're all here in the center. And we all care about the. The same basic things. There are distractions here and there. And it's not to say that those distractions can't be important because they are. You know, you don't want to dismiss other people's things that are very important to other people. But when we're talking about, you know, country with 340 million people, we need to get after the thing that affects the bulk of those people, you know, so bring the temperature down so that we can have common sense conversations and find that common ground again. You know, so health care, housing and a living wage or being able to make a living on, you know, regular. Regular wages. It kills me when I hear certain generation talking about, well, you know, I had a minimum wage job when I was your age and I bought a house and I made things work. And I was like, well, we live in a very different time.

[A]

What generation can say that, though?

[B]

The baby boomers, the better parents. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I thought, like, I feel like my dad's a liar. He said he just makes stuff up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I got paid with walnuts and I bought a Porsche. Yeah. What did you just say? Old man bought that car with a bushel of apples. The first house I bought was $7.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, dad, that is not true.

[B]

You know what a median house cost or, you know, price is in Spokane, Right?

[A]

Currently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, don't.

[B]

I mean, you probably.

[A]

But 750.

[B]

I know that's crazy. I. I should have. I probably should have said it with a little less excitement. So go so higher off the bat. $450,000. So the house that we bought in 2017 in Spokane, I think I paid $260,000. It's currently valued. And I could tell you that this is demonstrably bogus because it's the same house and I've made improvements to it, but not $220,000 worth of improvements. Yeah, it's worth $470,000 right now.

[A]

And that's total.

[B]

That's. That's complete BS. So what do you think? What are your.

[A]

What's your theory on wages?

[B]

So Washington state's actually really freaking good. The. The minimum state or minimum wage in Washington state date is like 1660 something. You know, that's. That's pretty.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty good. What is it in Montana, Michael? It's still 7.

[B]

25.

[A]

Oh, weird.

[B]

Federal.

[A]

We are 100 adjusting your pay more towards that. Let's just go ahead and Google what your pay starts at on Monday.

[B]

You should.

[A]

You should have.

[B]

You should have said higher. Yeah, it's actually 10:55.

[A]

Okay. 10:55. Okay. Do me a favor, Google, what's the median cost of housing in Kalispell, Montana? Let's guess. I'm gonna get. It's not. Guess it's not much difference at 1050 an hour. Whatever that was does not equate to getting a450,000 home.

[B]

No.

[A]

Regardless if you work.

[B]

No, because think about. You got to have 10. 6.95. Holy 695, dude.

[A]

Covid was crazy. So I came, I moved here from California. I. We moved, kind of made some really poorly timed purchases, like a house in 2008. I swear this may not be true, but I just feel like in my heart it is. It was the day before the trap door opened.

[B]

We PCs back from Okinawa to Vegas in 2008. We got pre approved for a loan so we could buy a house when we got there, and then everything took a dump and we were like, I guess we're not buying a house.

[A]

So we bought immediately sell 40% of our equity, disappear like that. Rented that house for 10 years, finally sold it awash. Really? Yeah.

[B]

After 10 years, I think I might.

[A]

Have paid 10 grand. You were like. I was just like, can we.

[B]

I just want to be offload rental property.

[A]

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was insane. And then though, I've been in California and I saw the housing boom and what happened in the housing boom in California, where, you know, I think the average is 1.5 to maybe 3% per year on average increase in value, generally more towards the 1.5 than to the three people were going up 20%, 30%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And somehow that seemed reasonable. So when this started happening in Covid, because people were fleeing California for reasons of their own design and it start the real estate market here, it was tripping people out because they hadn't seen it. And I just, just thought back, oh, I've seen this before. House comes onto the market. Multiple offers day that it lists 20,000 over, 30,000 over, 40,000 over, 50,000 over. Real estate agents in cars, in lines with, you know, a family writing handwritten letters. This is what your house would mean to us. And so it was just Kalispell prices and through the roof. And they're still like that right now. We pay the people at the coffee shop substantially more than the minimum wage even on their opening. Plus they get tips on top of that. And I don't even think that they would be able to afford to buy a house.

[B]

Now, having said that, would you say 695?

[A]

695. Yeah. But having said that, though, I don't know. I mean, a coffee shop job, for most people, it's going to be a phase of your life. It's going to be transitory. And I talk with.

[B]

In general.

[A]

Yeah. I talk with our manager about this. Like, listen, we're going to have churn because we're mostly going to get people who are going to work seasonally. They're probably going to be between 17 to mid to late 20s maybe. We do have some people that come back later in life because they just want something to do. I'm all about it. But also, if you work in a coffee shop, don't be shocked if you can't buy a home.

[B]

Yeah. Now, expectation management is very.

[A]

Not every job is going to.

[B]

That's why I need to teach that critical thinking class in college. But yeah, expectation management is super important, like in everything we do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know. Yeah, it's tough to say I want to work at McDonald's for the rest of my life and be able to afford a home.

[A]

Two plus two doesn't equal four on that. No. I'm sorry.

[B]

But that also doesn't change that. It doesn't mean that it shouldn't be possible. I guess right now it is not possible.

[A]

Well, there's. But you have jobs.

[B]

No, I agree. There are starter jobs.

[A]

There are.

[B]

You know, but some people just are never going to be able to get jobs other than those starter jobs. And that doesn't mean they should be disqualified from being able to live the American dream.

[A]

Well, median doesn't mean all. Yeah, they're a variety. You know what I mean? Yeah, I. You may not be able to buy the 3 to 2500 square foot with your own, you know, garage and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yard. You're not going to mow because you're irresponsible. You little bastards. Talking about my own children here.

[B]

I couldn't get mine to mow the lawn either.

[A]

I love mow the lawn.

[B]

I hate it. But I think it's because of my. My dad growing up. Like I. I told you, vacuuming.

[A]

I do one of my favorite activities.

[B]

I love vacuum.

[A]

I have had an argument with my wife because she robbed me of the opportunity to vacuum our floor before I came home.

[B]

I don't know why.

[A]

I.

[B]

It's something that is amazing. I'll throw a podcast in or. Or just some like instrumental kind of music. I think it's just going to veg. Yeah, exactly. I love Seeing the lines. I love seeing the lines. And now all the vacuums are like the clear plastic. Yes. Container. And I love watching that sucker fill up. And we have a German shedder.

[A]

Yeah, I said that.

[B]

Right. You know, German shedder, not shepherd. And oh my gosh, like, you know, I could vacuum every single day and, and pull a corgi out of there.

[A]

Yeah. My dad has a black lab that if he even drives by, I feel like I can fill up one of the. Yeah, the containers. So when you're thinking about wages, what are your thoughts? Increasing minimum wage.

[B]

I think the federal minimum wage needs to go up. And there's been, Again, I don't have the numbers, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So memorize so that I can just spout everything off and, and be awesome like that. But they have, they have had studies show that increasing the minimum wage does not put undue burdens on, on the corporations or the people. In fact, does a lot of other things that are really good for the economy. Because now you've given spending power to those people that they didn't have before and they might be able to afford healthcare that they couldn't afford before.

[A]

I think it depends on the increase. I mean, if you listen to California, it should be $30 minimum wage. I'm like, listen, guys, I'll serve you a $19 latte if you want, which is what it would take to get $30 to get a $30 minimum wage, which nobody would come through the door, which means I would lay off everybody.

[B]

$25 an hour is like $50,000 a year.

[A]

Well, it depends on how many hours.

[B]

For a full time job. I think if you're, if you're working 40 hours a week. Yeah, 25 an hour. I think it works out to something like $50,000 a year. That's not awesome. But that's a livable. Yeah, a livable wage. But I, I don't. Again, I'm not smart enough on this stuff. And I do agree with you that there are phases of jobs that you go through.

[A]

There's also phases of life. Yeah.

[B]

And, and the high school kids. The high school kids should not be making $50,000 a year or $25,000 a year because they're working, you know, 20 hours a week because they're a high school kid.

[A]

I mean. Michael, can you do me a favor and pull up the military paycheck, please? 20, 25. Let's look at.

[B]

I was paycheck to paycheck as a second lieutenant.

[A]

Oh, hell yeah. You know, I actually think people should spend about a decade living like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just so you can have a really deeply ingrained sense of anxiety, pessimism, fear. Okay, let's see here. E2 over 12. Well, go down. Get out of here. Get out of here. Where's under? Hold on. Scroll up, baby. Perhaps.

[B]

Okay, here we are.

[A]

Yes. Okay. As an E1 coming into the military, you're going to make $2,319 a month. Now, let me tell you, this doesn't include tax, so that's also going to be cut in half. So you're looking at about. Oh, what are we talking about here?

[B]

If you're in half?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

2,400.

[A]

$1200 a check.

[B]

Yeah. $100 a check. So you're making $2,400 a month.

[A]

Yeah. You're going to make about a grand every two weeks. So, yeah, that's also 50 grand.

[B]

But you also take into account the fact that they get housing.

[A]

Is that what we're calling the barracks?

[B]

Sorry. Yeah, for that. I was thinking. I was going in my mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

E1, not. Not zero, one point me.

[A]

I mean, that's about 50 grand a year right there. Actually, that's nowhere near 50 grand. No, 2300amonth.

[B]

2400 a year. If you're getting.

[A]

If you're 24 times 12. Yeah. It's gonna be about 28, 000 a year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As an E1 coming to the military. Don't worry, though, because one day you'll become an E2 and you will go from 23.19 to 25.99 and your life will be better because what you'll do is go to a car dealership within walking distance from the front gate and you'll get a Mustang.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On a 20 interest rate whose payment will be 2000amonth or a Jeep.

[B]

You get. You're gonna get a. A Jeep and jack it up and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. And again, so here, I mean, these are 18 year olds. These are federal employees.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And first time when you join the military, you are going to be making $28,000 a year base pay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, it builds over time. Like, let's say what you've been in for 10, not that you could be an E1 over 10. Man, you're having a horrible trajectory.

[B]

You suck.

[A]

You'll be at. I'll say. I'll say you're at E5. E6 will be super conservative. More likely you'd be an E7, but you're talking 4, 500amonth. And at that point, you're probably going to have bah bas. You're going to have some specialty pays depending on Navy, you might have like.

[B]

So you're making it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're getting by.

[A]

Yeah. You're over.

[B]

You're not even just making it. You're comfortable. Is.

[A]

Yeah. You're at 60 grand a year base pay plus all. Any of your additional pays. On top of that, you're probably getting close to. With those extra pays, I would say six figures.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I think there's a reason charts look like that.

[B]

I. No, I, I agree. You know, so the, the wage. I'll go back to what I said earlier. I'm not the smartest person in the room and I will surround myself, though, with the people that, that do have the, the data and the statistics to be able to make a smart call on it. I think at the end of the day, though, it's, it goes back to simplifying the tax code, you know, putting more money in people's pockets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That need it, you know, and that is going to do, I think, a lot more for people than, than giving them an artificial, artificially huge pay raise that isn't sustainable.

[A]

Yeah, that's. I mean, again, I like the concept of a flat tax. And again, to use 10 as you could. There's no way. And it would need to be. There's no way to take deductions to reduce it from the 10. So if you're a billionaire, yeah, you get. It's 10% temp. And if you're multimillionaire, it's 10%. Whatever. You're making a million bucks. It's like, it's just. That's what it is across the board, but that's what it's going to be. I don't think that number would prohibit people from still trying to make as much money as possible, because I think that number is palatable. But that's going to net you probably more than people who are making a tremendous amount that can play inside of the tax rate code to take their taxable income to zero, which I don't fault them for doing if the rules are the way.

[B]

One of the things that, you know, Trump said in a debate, I think it was with, with Hillary, Hillary Clinton.

[A]

I know what you're talking about.

[B]

Like, you can't fault the man's logic.

[A]

No.

[B]

On that. Yeah.

[A]

She tried to throw that at him and he said he's like, all of your donors, all of your rich donors are doing exactly the same thing.

[B]

What's the saying? Don't hate the player.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hate the game.

[A]

You're gonna tell me the Clintons aren't taking actions of any kind? I will say this. Love or hate, Trump, that man is a savage. Hillary Clinton tweeted out about him destroying a portion of the East Wing to build a ballroom.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And he responded with, I may just name it the Monica Lewinsky Ballroom.

[B]

Are you serious?

[A]

Absolute savage.

[B]

Again, you know, don't you miss. Don't you miss the days? Like, there are times when that's refreshing having somebody who says it like he sees it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But don't you miss the days also when, you know, they were a little bit professional, when they were a little bit classy? You know, you look at, you look.

[A]

At almost as if they were statesmen. Yeah, yeah, I. I do. And again, maybe that's just the. That is. To me, I guess that is comical. I also understand how another country.

[B]

The guy is a master troll. He is a master.

[A]

Which I just learned. Like God. Tier. Right. It's like the other ones. That was a recent addition to my vernacular.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also other countries. Looking at this, thinking, what did the President of the United States. Is he really taken a dig back in the 90s to Old Bill?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yes, he is.

[B]

Yeah. And have you looked at the numbers on that 300 million for 90, 000 square foot? Have you. Have you looked at that?

[A]

I haven't looked at the numbers, but I do know that it is privately funded, which I don't know if I'm okay with that.

[B]

I don't. Yeah. So this is the reason, Michael.

[A]

Tippy tapping.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. The reason I. I brought it up is because like 90, 000 square feet. And again, I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm not a math, but if you.

[A]

Cut 90,000 by 300 mil, it is.

[B]

It works out to like $3,300 a square foot or something crazy like that.

[A]

That's what I would like to sell a house for.

[B]

So that's insane. So, you know, this is not a ballroom. There is something going on in that, that, that bunker. Control room, whatever.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

I forget what it's called.

[A]

People see government and they take wherever the comma currently is and they move it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I actually think in many ways. What'd you find, Michael?

[B]

Yeah, 300 million.

[A]

Is it being privately funded?

[B]

Yeah, I saw they put a. They put a list out and it's like Apple, Meta. Okay, Amazon. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Well, fortunately, none of them would have any vested interest in policy.

[B]

Right. Palantir which is really nice.

[A]

Which is the robot overlord. We're all good. It's not going to be Skynet becoming self aware. It'll be pal. Here. Holy cow list.

[B]

What did you call it? Legalized bribery. Bribery, Yeah. T Mobile.

[A]

Scroll down a little bit.

[B]

Oh, it keeps going.

[A]

Holy cow. Who the hell is Constantine Winklev?

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

He's one of the. I only know him from the Social Network.

[B]

Yeah, that's. That's how I know which. I watch somebody read that off to me and I was like, oh, wait, those are the. Those are the two dudes who helped make Facebook.

[A]

I watched that movie as a documentary. Okay, so the Winklevi are both on here. They were early into bitcoin too. I think they've made probably as much, if not more, money in the bitcoin world. Lutnick family, some of the names. What do you got here, Betty World Johnson Foundation. Okay. So there's some foundations. T Mobile, go up. Union Pacific Railroad. Okay. Energy, some tech. Hp Hard Rock International. Is that the gaming? Keep going up.

[B]

Really curious what Ripple is.

[A]

Oh, I feel like I know that. I. What is Ripple, Michael? We look that up. Yeah, man. I don't know how I feel about that.

[B]

Financial infrastructure and blockchain technology.

[A]

Perfect. Yep.

[B]

Okay. I. I'm not a fan of it. I mean, would you rather have taxpayers. I guess that. So that's where I was going. At least it's not taxpayers doing it. And I'm not. I don't know enough about the details to speak educatedly on this.

[A]

I don't either.

[B]

So I just know that that visceral. That gut feeling is like, this seems off. This seems weird. Yeah, it seems weird. And the fact that a 90,000. I mean, it's going to dwarf the White House.

[A]

Yeah. The White House is really tiny. Actually. It is.

[B]

But like, it's. It's bigger than like the West Wing and the White House combined almost. It's. It's huge.

[A]

Yeah, I've. I've seen where it's going to go. It's funny, you know, most movies, they convince or they confuse or they use the Capitol building instead of the White House. Yeah, yeah. Many people, if shown the picture of the Capitol building, would think it is the White House because of how many movies it's been in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The White White House is not. It is not big.

[B]

It's pretty small. Yeah.

[A]

Capitol building bigger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Incredible. Super cool, incredible artwork inside of the dome of that thing. Oh, man. We went there and they did a Tour. They let us climb the inside of the dome and get up on top.

[B]

Was this on J. January 6th.

[A]

I can't speak publicly about that because, you know, statute of limitation.

[B]

Your agreement. Your agreement strictly forbids you from.

[A]

No, it was 100. Not on January 6th. I am not known to participate in things of that. Yeah, nature. But it was really cool because there's the outside. You're basically near the top of the dome on the outside. What a great view down the mall on the outside. Yeah.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Yeah. Well, there's a small section that is on the outside, but yeah, it's. There's actually two domes. There's an inner dome and an outer dome. So the staircase is walking up in between. It was really, really cool.

[B]

Spent a lot of time in. In Europe. I did an exchange with the French Air force for three years, which was awesome.

[A]

Were you flying their stuff?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do they fly?

[B]

EC725. So they have one squadron that does look that up.

[A]

Michael. I want to see a picture of that.

[B]

It's like the. The most modern version of a puma.

[A]

Okay. I don't even know what a puma is. Puma to me is a cat.

[B]

Yeah, they're all cats. Care call is the EC 725 is the care call.

[A]

No, that doesn't look as cool now.

[B]

Payfox, Way cooler.

[A]

Yeah, but the sis.

[B]

That was a. That was a glass cockpit. That was a modern helicopter.

[A]

Three engines or two?

[B]

Two.

[A]

You know, I didn't realize the 53s had three engines.

[B]

Some, not all of them.

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm like, what is. Oh, that's just another turbine engine there.

[B]

Yep. So we had in. I think it was that. It was that same deployment I told you about, where we went through 12 engines.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We were on Bastion and we had just finished.

[A]

Exhaust pipe coming at the side.

[B]

Well, they have. They have. What do you call it? Hers on the 60. We call it the hers, but it's the hover Infrared suppression system. So it'll. So you don't just have this big plume for every seeker out there.

[A]

Well, that's not fair.

[B]

So they have something that will. Will mask the. The exhaust. Same with the 60.

[A]

Is the closest you've ever come to dying in a helicopter.

[B]

Go. I don't know.

[A]

Pick one. What's the dumbest mistake you've ever made flying a helicopter? I ask all helicopter pilots this because I'm trying not to die doing dumb stuff.

[B]

Don't do many air shows for people.

[A]

Oh, I'm never doing an air show.

[B]

Yeah, don't do many air shows for people. I'll say the time that I probably was closest to death and it wasn't from somebody shooting at. Well, every time you do a brown out landing. Yeah, those suck.

[A]

Do you just switch over to gauges.

[B]

At some point in the 60? We've got, we've got the attitude indicator. Attitude indicator. But also you can, you can click this little button and it'll bring a little needle over which shows your drift.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so when you're, when you're, you know, on approach, you are looking a little outside and inside, making sure you're not drifting. And you have parameters, you know, a descent rate you don't want to go higher than, speeds you don't want to go higher than. And if you nail that, the landing gear on the 60 is good enough that you can just slam that in. You can just ride that sucker all the way into the ground. If you have a little bit of drift, you could. You potentially run into dynamic rollover.

[A]

Not a great video to watch on Instagram. There's plenty.

[B]

No, yeah, it's. It's not, it's not awesome. We were coming into this LZ near Bastion. No, in Marja. I can't remember the name of it. Tiny lz, like, you know, maybe twice this room. But the rotors, you know, you could, you could get the rotor disc in there. It's big enough for the rotor disc. And the way the winds were set up, we're coming in from the southeast, coming from the southeast, landing northwest. And you know when you're doing a brown out landing, your gunners are like, like the only way you live, you know, because you can lose sight anywhere from 10ft before you touch down to, you know, 100.

[A]

By that you mean they're talking to you?

[B]

Yeah, they're talking to you. They're telling you dust is at the tail. Or, you know, dust is kicking up, dust is at the tail, dust is at the, you know, halfway up the boom, dust is at the cabin, dust's at the gunner's windows. And then, you know, you go. We call it ping pong. You know, you're just, you're completely engulfed by the, by the dust. And we were at that point and we were just. The nose of the helicopter is just sticking out of this dust cloud. And then all of a sudden my gunner on the right side says, stop. Down. And just that tiny input of the collective to arrest that scent was enough for the dust cloud to just completely go forward. And now we're totally lost. No idea. And I, and I was stupid, I wasn't, you know, I was nailing the approach. So I was like, this is good. I can, I can look at the ground all the way to the, all the way to where we were landing.

[A]

Oh, because you should be a little bit ahead of the dust.

[B]

Yep, gotcha. And, but there was an MRAP parked in the LZ. And you know, those things are like freaking 15ft tall by themselves. And they got a 20 foot whip.

[A]

Out, 100 could hit the rotors.

[B]

And we were about to hit that and so he, he tells me, stop. Down. Dust cloud kicks us out. Well, we're below the tree level at this point surrounding this lz. And I totally got lost in there, you know, because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to. I wasn't on the, on the instruments like I should have been. So as soon as that dust cloud hit us, because I was cocky and thinking, you know, everything's going great. Excuse me. When we came out of that dust cloud, just dumb luck, there was one gap in the trees and only wide enough for a helicopter for a 60 to go through at about 30 degrees of bank. And dumb luck, I happened to hit that gap. And so we came back around and I landed with a tailwind instead coming over the trees. Because that way at least the wind is pushing that dust cloud behind us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, or, sorry, tailwind. But there wasn't. It was, it worked because the trees were there and so it was kind.

[A]

Of blocking that tailwind once we got below it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But you know, the Apaches we were working with was the Brits. Ugly was their call sign. As soon as we touched down, he's like, mate, I'm glad that was you, not me, because it was, I mean, it was terrifying. I, I, you know, it was one of those moments where just like, okay, somebody's watching over me because I should have died. We should have hit those trees because here's the LZ right here and the gap is like this. So my approach is taking me this way. I get so jacked up in that cloud.

[A]

Somehow you drifted right to the proper configuration. Yeah, yeah. That's not one I think you should attempt to repeat.

[B]

No, no, no. It sucked. It was. And, but you know, in Afghanistan you get that moon dust, that super fine moon dust, and so you, it's like ash. Yeah, you lose, you lose sight of the LZ real early and, and you.

[A]

Just, the engines spool down at all when they start ingesting that.

[B]

I'VE you can get compressor stalls.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I've never. I've never seen the.

[A]

Because that stuff is going everywhere. To include right through those.

[B]

Oh, yeah. No, we kept. We kept little paint brushes in the cockpit.

[A]

To brush off. Yeah.

[B]

To brush everything off. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's not a bad idea.

[B]

We started flying. We started flying with the doors off because when it get really bad, you could see. You could still lean out the window and look straight down and see the ground. So you could at least tell. And that's how the gunners kept us alive. Because the gunners would tell you if you're drifting because they're, you know, even when they're. We're in that. That dust cloud, they're looking straight down and they can tell if we're drifting left or right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's when you go around. If you're drifting, man.

[A]

You ever had any major mechanical issues in a bird?

[B]

We had basically lost an engine coming back from. I can't remember where it was. It was southeast of Kabul.

[A]

Gonna hawk fly on one at least.

[B]

Back to the airfield at those altitudes. We happened to be. Because we were coming off of a. Coming over a mountain range. Yeah. And got an engine chip light.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So basically I had to shut that engine down.

[A]

It should have a drift down altitude right where it would stabilize at. Not.

[B]

Not up near Bagram.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

It was. It was high enough that we were on a descent whether we wanted to be or not. But we were high enough coming off of the mountains that had some altitude. We just. I mean, I basically rolled that sucker on at the approach end of the Runway. You know, not lucky because we flew it the right way. You know, you're trained to do that. But yeah, we just. Dumb luck as far as we happen to have enough altitude because we normally. Normally fly around freaking treetops.

[A]

Yeah. Is there at a lower altitude around sea level, can it maintain or climb on a single engine? Load dependent, obviously, if it was load dependent.

[B]

If you, if you pull out the ox tanks. Yeah. I'll bet you could.

[A]

Okay. Because you're.

[B]

You now you're. You can fly around at 14.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it's going to be a slow like we had. I wish I could remember the names of all the fobs, but you go into so many different places. We had to pick this guy up who was all shot up and we got into the LZ or the FOB easy, you know, because we were low on gas by that point. But we had to get gas to get back. So we're at the fart changes things. Yeah. So. But I take on pole is a.

[A]

Little bit heavier than when we came in.

[B]

You take on only what you, only what you have to. Yeah. And I kid you not, we were at a one foot hover, you know, just so we could build up air speed. So you start getting outside of that dirty air.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And get in front of the burble and. Yeah. Now then, now you can slowly start climbing. And that's the thing where you're like, all right, see those two antennas on the far side of the fob we're shooting for in between those, those antennas, you know, and halfway between here and there is going to be our go, no go point. And so you are just, you know, you're, you're shooting for the field goal, you know, and that, that kind of happened, that kind of thing happened all the time because we were a fat pig of a helicopter, you know, and trying to do the things that once you're, once you're flying, it's great. But getting out of those LZs, especially around Bagram and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Jbad and all that stuff, you know, you're real high altitudes. We went to Majari Sharif from, from Bagram one time and you know, you're at 13000ft, but 13000ft MSL, but you're like 50ft AGL and you have no, there is no room for error. You know, you put like an angle like a degree of bank in and it's like, hey, stop descent or stop down. Yeah, you know, it's like I'm trying.

[A]

Yeah, we are going down.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Luckily the mountain is also descending because that' that's what we'll do.

[A]

I want no part of any of that. You guys can have that.

[B]

No, we, it was, it was awesome. It was fun with these guys, man. They, I'm sure you've worked with, with some partners before.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

These dudes are in 2008. I forgot about this. We were, we were at Bagram and my first couple of deployments we were doing Kazavac for the army, you know, so that's rough. Low loom or hot LZs. We got the mission and 2008, I think it was August or September and we get a call that, that a French unit got ambushed on this ridgeline on the valley just, just to the east of of Bagram. So you got Bagram. You know, there's a, there's a mountain range that's right there. I can't remember the, the name of the valley. On the other side. But just on the immediate other side of that mountain range, There was a French unit getting lit up, just totally getting destroyed. And I guess it's just going really badly. And so they launch us. We get out there, and nobody can talk to anybody. There's an A10, but there's like a thousand foot deck. And so this guy can't see anything. He's. He's like, look, we. We think it's over there. And we're like, all right, cool. And then so we're. We're kind of just orbiting, you know, which is great thing to do in an area where there are insurgents. You know, it's super fun. Good feeling. And we're flying around, and this Kiowa shows up out of nowhere, Cups up, comes up on the. The general channel. And he's like, hey, you guys looking for the lz? And we're like, funny. Sure. Yeah. And he's like, all right, follow me. So we fall in on this dude 6. And it was like something out of the movies, man. These Kiowas are amazing. Yeah. You know, he is silhouetted, you know, in front of us because of the firefight going on. And I kid you not, I see this as we're. We're flying right up this dude 6. I see somebody lean out of the helicopter, out of a movie, pop a smoke, and chuck it into the lz. He's like, there's your lz. And then he peels off to the left, and he's like, have a good one. Never. I. I look over, you know, the other pilot, and we're like, did. Did we just see that? Did that really just happen? Dudes are freaking bad.

[A]

A. That's awesome.

[B]

Yeah. So then we're flying in, and we're on low fight, like, short, short, final. And this pops up right in front of us and lands in front of us. We're like, okay, what's going on? So these jokers not talking to anybody. Not. Not, you know, just doing their own thing. They're not up on any frequencies that we can talk to.

[A]

We call it whisper mode.

[B]

Yeah, they were on whisper mode for sure. They just. They just land. And we're like, all right, well, does anybody know what's going on? And, you know, Chalk two, the pilot. I don't want to. I don't want to throw names out there, because this is. He's awesome. But we're like, 45 minutes into this flight, and he's like, hey, I speak French. You guys think, Should I try to talk to him?

[A]

No, definitely don't. We're like, dude, definitely don't try to communicate with them in their primary language.

[B]

Thirty minutes ago, that would have been good information. It's really good information still. But, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where were you 30 minutes ago, man?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we. We go in there, and we're picking up all these French deers that are just jacked up. And there's a. There's a little French FOB in Kabul. And so we're dropping these guys off in there, and they're in their version of. Of an mrap, and they're just rolling into the LZ on whisper mode. We're sitting. We're sitting in the lz, rotor spinning, and there's a dude sitting out of the. The hatch in the top of this truck, which happens to be the perfect height to lose your head. And they're just droning right at the helicopter. So we start flashing the landing light, you know, and you see this guy. We almost. We almost pulled pitch. Yeah. Because this guy, he's gonna lose his head, but he ducks down into the. The truck. At the last second, the truck veers off to the left. But, you know, these dudes were crazy. And then three years later, when I go on the French exchange, it's this unit.

[A]

What was their version of that story?

[B]

They're national heroes. I'm not even joking. I'm not even joking. They have. You know, you can get pennants for your. For your unit. They have a. Their version of the Presidential unit citation.

[A]

Did you get to wear a beret while you're with that unit?

[B]

No.

[A]

It's a missed opportunity.

[B]

No, no, I missed opportunity. They wouldn't even let me wear their flight suit.

[A]

That's rude.

[B]

Which is fine, though, actually, because I put it on. It was like the skinny jeans version of a flight suit.

[A]

Of course it was.

[B]

You know, and if you're wearing a flight suit, it's because it's comfortable and back baggy, and it's like pajamas.

[A]

I bet it had a pocket just for cigarettes.

[B]

But, yeah, their. Their flight suits sucked. I hate them.

[A]

But, well, they're tailored.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah. US Flight suits are just a bag of sweat to death, but you probably won't break because they're Nomex.

[B]

They're Nomex. The flight suit is the most bizarre thing because in the dead of summer, it's the hottest thing in the world.

[A]

This is what I fly.

[B]

And in the winter, it is the coldest thing in the world. Like, all the wind goes right through that thing.

[A]

But it's designed to, for one second, prevent you from burning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then provide no thermal protection of any kind.

[B]

Yeah. It's like the poopy suit when I made a fly over water.

[A]

Yes. It.

[B]

All it served was. Yeah. All it's going to do is prolong the suffering just a little bit because, you know, it's not going to keep you alive for long enough for anyone to get to you, wherever you are.

[A]

Yeah. You driving back tonight?

[B]

It depends.

[A]

Well, we've been at it for two and a half hours, so I can get you back on the road.

[B]

I'm. I'm fine with. With whatever works for you, man. Well, I wanted to ask you. Do you remember a Mitch Galloway? You train. You trained him. He's a crow. You trained him when he was doing green team.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Probably out in Florida. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When I told him I was.

[A]

I was.

[B]

He. He worked for me when we were at the survival school.

[A]

Nice. Yeah, we were. I was teaching skydiving out there for a bit, and we would catch them. It was like. I don't know. I don't know what they would call it, but a little bit of refinement in their jumps, he called it.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I don't know.

[A]

Then. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, he. He had good things to say.

[A]

I must have had a good day. I've had some bad ones. My best.

[B]

No, he said. He said it was cool. He said. He said you're a good dude.

[A]

So give me the elevator pitch. Somebody listening to this? You meet somebody. What's your pitch?

[B]

My pitch is that things need to change. Things are, you know, the status quo doesn't work. And if we can't tone things down so that we can have the conversations that we need to have and talk about the actual, real problems that people are facing every single day, then nothing is going to change. If we can't hold our elected representatives accountable for their inaction, nothing's going to change. So I want to have. I want to be able to have the conversations again without it turning into a thing where you're my enemy, just because we don't agree on everything. You know, we have a lot more in common than we don't. So we have the opportunity to get after the things that everybody cares about right now, which is health care, housing, and just making a living without being paycheck to paycheck, you know, and those are things that we can really get after. If we stop focusing on these distractions, if we focus on the things that we all share, that we all care about, then we can really make some, some changes. But that has to, that has to happen. We have to be able to have those conversations. And if you look at polling, that's what people care about. They don't care about all these distractions.

[A]

I'm not sure survived 2024, just so you know.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Yeah. I think that might have been the end of polling.

[B]

No, I agree. Polling is messed up, but it's a point from where you can start.

[A]

It is. But then there's people out there like me who when a poll person asks me, I'm going to tell them the exact opposite of what I actually did because get out of my face.

[B]

Then, then it goes. It boils down to the common sense stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, forget polls. Forget all that stuff. What do you care about? Oh, guess what? Those are the same things I care about. Again, same thing. Yeah. You know, so if we can, if we can get rid of the rhetoric, if we can, you know, bring the temperature down and, and get people to see each other as community members and neighbors, then we can make huge gains in this country. Because I'm of the opinion that we've always been awesome. There was no need to make us anything again. This has always been an amazing country and we had the opportunity in the military to serve in some garden spots, if you will. We've seen awesome places and we've seen horrible places. And man, I take this place nine times out of ten every day of.

[A]

The week, twice on Sunday.

[B]

Yeah, you know, this is. There, there are, there are things that, that we have to fix, things that we have to improve for sure. Every place has that. There is no perfect, you know, and that goes back to my other point. Perfect is the enemy of, of good enough. If you're always looking for perfect, you're never going to be happy.

[A]

You know, where can people find you and support your campaign? So.

[B]

Www.croftforcongress.com and that's the number for, not the word for, you know, and so I've got an awesome, awesome team. We're still in our infancy because, yeah, we've got time. I've got some really good people in my corner and there is a movement going on right now because like you said, I think a lot of people feel that people on the left, elected people on the left and the right, they've stopped focusing on us. They're only focusing on pleasing party leadership, big business lobbyists, and they're focused on their re election. You know, and I have, maybe it's naive, but I have this vision that if you can focus on what people actually care about, I won't have to work on re election. Because, because they're gonna know. Oh, well, I mean, for the last two years, everything we've talked about, everything we've brought up as concerns he has addressed in D.C. he has taken our voice to D.C. and I saw this disgusting number the other day. If, if a member of Congress works nine hours, okay, right now they're working zero. But if they work nine hours, it's something like six to seven of those hours are focused on reelection.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And that's ridiculous. So we're paying them ridiculous amounts of money so they can go and work on their reelection so they can go fundraise. And again, I know it's, it's probably going to be a logistical nightmare, but my plan is to have like a town hall every 45 days, 30 to 45 days in a different part of the district so that people can hold me, hold my feet to the fire and say, hey, dude, you're missing the mark. Or hey, we're really happy you did this. Please keep doing more of that. But so that people will always see what it is that I'm doing, what I'm working on and so they, you know, see me enough to understand, hey, he actually cares. He's, he's working on it. I don't care about getting rich. I, you know, I was going to go be a teacher. I'm retired military. I went into the military. You know, nobody gets rich in the military, so I don't care about the money, service matters. And I think I can do really, really good things for the people in Washington's 5th district. Eastern Washington is taking a beating with tariffs and rural hospitals. It's something that needs to be fixed. And right now, you know, the guy we have is just ignoring the people, you know, he's got. He sends out, you know, little updates, email updates, and they're so tone deaf. They're so, you know, not in tune with, with what the people in Washington's 5th district are saying.

[A]

And I'm sure you know why that is. Because he isn't in tune. Yeah, guys, again, knowing nothing about who this person is or who he is, it's pretty good chance he's worried about his own stuff.

[B]

Yep, hundred percent, 100%. And I'm not saying that to say that he's a bad dude. I don't think he's a bad dude. I think he's tone deaf. And I think he cares more about his own stuff than he does about the people. And I don't think that there is. You know, you should be more concerned with your own well being. But if that's all you can focus on, then that's the wrong job. You shouldn't be in that job if you're going to be focused on yourself. You know, you got to take care of you and yours and your family. But don't get into politics if you aren't going to be trying to take care of the people that elected you. And that's what I want to do. That's. That's what I know I can do. I know I can do this job job 10 times better than that guy. The campaign stuff, I'm still figuring that out. I'm still getting my feet under me.

[A]

You get to.

[B]

But yeah, I mean, yeah. Cross for Congress.com. you can learn. You know, I've got all my platform on there. You know. We're looking to do a launch event on the 11th of November. More than welcome to come be in Spokane.

[A]

I will have to check my camera.

[B]

No, I think it'd be. I think it'd be cool have you out there.

[A]

I'll be in New York. Otherwise I would come. I appreciate the offer.

[B]

Yeah, no worries.

[A]

I'll come out though for some other stuff.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

It's flying distance for the helicopter.

[B]

Yeah. There you go. Yeah, let's set that up. Let's go on a. Yeah, I'll take you. I'll take.

[A]

I have an ex German anti tank helicopter. An MBB BO105.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Twin turbine.

[B]

Yeah, that'd be awesome.

[A]

Same helicopter the Red Bull uses for the acrobatics. However, I have no desire to fly acrobatics. I am glad that the helicopter for whatever reason could tolerate that. If I were to find myself in what we'll call an unusual attitude. No desire whatsoever.

[B]

We'll take you out there and do some skids, right? Yeah, yeah, we'll take you out there and do some, some one skid landings and we'll. We'll pretend like it's the old days. I'll come in and I'll put one skid on the side of the. On the ridge.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And you can X fill.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then, and then. Yeah, we'll just make it big.

[A]

I feel like they all kind of flip.

[B]

Make it like old school.

[A]

Yeah, I like it.

[B]

I. I miss flying but you know.

[A]

You can just come back to it.

[B]

The attache thing was. It was fun. It was good.

[A]

Yeah. Plus pilot's licenses are good for life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Currency, not so much.

[B]

But, you know, I'm a little. A little outside my. I've got on pumpkin. Long time ago.

[A]

Yeah. But that does those fixable problems.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I took 10 years off in between fixed wing. Ava. It was eight years in between fixed wing and then picking up rotary.

[B]

And you got more hours than I do. I saw you. You got like 3,000 plus hours.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Most of that fixed wing, though.

[B]

Yeah. But like I said, it's. You got that airman's sense that air so much makes a huge difference even.

[A]

Honestly, like you were saying, I hear everything on the radio and I hear absolutely nothing at exactly the same time until it's like, oh, that's for me.

[B]

Yeah. We had five. Five radios on the Pavehawk.

[A]

That's. That's unacceptable.

[B]

And. And you know, when you are at that point where you're, you know, you're just the master of your craft.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I wouldn't say that I was ever the master of my craft, but I was pretty dang good.

[A]

That's a lot of inputs.

[B]

Five radios. You can tell what's going on. But you know what was always the worst? It was. It was usually the crow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He would talk at just the wrong time. Him tell you where he wants you to land. You're like. Like, dude, you know, I got nothing bad. I'm just giving them a hard time. But. But, yeah, they. They would. It was usually when we'd fly with a guard unit. Yeah. And they'd start talking, like, just the worst time. You're in the middle of. You're in the middle of. Of, you know, getting the update from the JTAC or whatever, and they're just like, hey, how far out are we?

[A]

So they probably couldn't hear the update though, right?

[B]

Well, because they would pull their pins.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You always be like, dude, push your pin in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You need to. You need to pay attention. So you don't step on any more calls.

[A]

And that's the issue is the key to talking on a radio is the first thing you do is you listen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And unless it's your buddy. And then right as they talk, you key your mic. I'm not giving anybody any ideas. But yeah. And you go. And they're like, who's.

[B]

Who's hot, Mike?

[A]

Yeah. And then you wait for them again and you go. Until they are absolutely emotionally twisted. Don't make sure you're not dying. And this is hypothetical. I'm not saying I've ever done this, but yeah. As Long as it's not like real world and nobody's gonna die. If you can emotionally break somebody doing that, I'm gonna say it's pretty awesome.

[B]

Yeah. I wanted to ask you. I was curious if we ever overlapped in Afghanistan.

[A]

So I was there in.

[B]

My first appointment was the end of, oh, 505 or 06. Dang it. I can't remember.

[A]

I was there almost all of 2010.

[B]

I wasn't there in 2010. I was in Iraq. It was my one.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

One fun trip to.

[A]

We probably didn't.

[B]

Then Africa.

[A]

My Afghanistan tours were over by 2005. And then.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Took some time off rehabbing from an injury and then went back to Afghanistan. 2002 in.

[B]

Yeah, no, it was a good time. A lot of times where we had guys like you sitting in the back, I mean, there weren't good times.

[A]

You know what is interesting? So I have thousands of hours sitting in the back, and now that I recognize some of these noises, I'm like, you sons of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now I'm like, why is it shuddering right now? I'm just in there, like, maybe just chewing bubble gum. Like, okay, whatever. Like, I know what's going on now. I'm thinking back, I'm like, you bastards. So, like, someone. The 1 60th guys, they're amazing. But we'll call some of the landings positive in nature. And now I realize whether they wanted to land or not, we were comfortable. Yeah. They were able to get off once. The 12 of us that were in a Blackhawk that should have never been in there. They're just like, what? Wee? They're like 1500ft a minute climb out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But now I look back, I'm like, you dicks.

[B]

Like, that was the low rotor.

[A]

Yeah. You guys, why was the collective in your armpit and we were still going down?

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Now it's like, okay, I. I get it.

[B]

We gave this. We gave this ODA team back a ride from TK one time. Taran Cout.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this dude, he was just like, man, I've seen it all. There's nothing you guys can do.

[A]

You know, first off, never say that, even if you have seen it. We're like, okay, because that's in a fireball can, you know? Yeah.

[B]

That's how. That's how it ends. In a fireball. Because now the pilot is thinking, oh, really? I'm gonna get him.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, we came off of this mountain, you know, 5,000 foot of nothing in front of us, and we're like, all right? You know, this dude ended up, you know, after a couple of moments of zero G, he ended up face down in our gunner's lap, you know.

[A]

Excellent.

[B]

And he's like, okay. I had not seen that.

[A]

Fair enough. All right, man. Thank you for making that.

[B]

Thank you. Appreciate it.