Cleared Hot Podcast – Episode 422: Nic McKinley – From the CIA to Hunting Human Traffickers

Date: December 29, 2025
Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Nic McKinley (Founder, DeliverFund; former CIA & USAF PJ)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Andy Stumpf sits down with Nic McKinley to discuss the rapidly worsening landscape of human trafficking, especially concerning child exploitation in America. The conversation ranges from Nic’s intelligence and special operations background to the emergence of sophisticated digital threats to children, failures of government and law enforcement, predator-rich online platforms like Roblox, solutions DeliverFund is pioneering, and what parents and society can do to fight back. The tone is direct, occasionally darkly humorous, unflinchingly critical of institutions, and deeply urgent.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of Child Trafficking: Worsening at Scale

[00:23]–[01:14]

• Andy opens by asking if things have gotten better or worse since their last discussion.
• Nic unequivocally says it’s “significantly worse” on the child exploitation front.
• The conversation quickly veers into both their backgrounds with government agencies, touching on bureaucratic absurdities and the frustrations of working with institutional incompetence.

“The child exploitation side of things? Significantly worse.” — Nic [00:36]

2. Government, Institutional Trust, and Cultural Decay

[05:14]–[17:25]

• The Epstein case is discussed as emblematic of systemic failures, coverups, and the erosion of public trust in government.
• Nic surmises that Epstein was "95% probability... an intelligence asset" [09:18], but points out that even transparency was weaponized for political gain with highly redacted, insubstantial releases.

"I honestly believe that the American populace... would be even more proud if they understood the circumstances under which [the intelligence community] got [things] done." — Nic [04:49]

• There is reflection on destructive political tribalism, cognitive dissonance, and politicians self-preserving instead of serving—paralleling how systems evade responsibility in human trafficking cases.

3. Societal Weakness & Accountability—Broken Windows, Parenting, and Victimhood

[26:08]–[36:01]

• The “broken windows theory” is related to both policing and parenting: enforce the small things early so bigger issues don’t arise.
• The hosts share personal parenting struggles as analogies for discipline, consequence, and societal accountability.

“It's the broken windows theory just applied to parenting. You start at the smallest possible issue and you build on top of that.” — Andy [27:27]

• Nic insists that society's refusal to enforce consequences has enabled the growth in crime: “We don’t have consequences in society that, that cause focus.” [36:01]

4. How Trafficking Has Evolved: A Game of Scale, Tech, and Anonymity

[50:57]–[61:59]

• DeliverFund’s transition from tactical focus to intelligence-driven operations:
  • Embedded analysts and massive, AI-driven data sharing with 1200+ law enforcement agencies.
  • Key stats from the past five years: 3,751 intelligence reports; 314 traffickers arrested; 821 adult victims and 435 minors freed, with large underreporting due to law enforcement communication gaps.
  • “We’re the nerds now,” Nic jokes, underscoring the shift from direct action to data.

“It is disrespectful for former SOF and intelligence personnel to go to law enforcement and say, ‘Alright, cops, let us show you how to do this job.’” — Nic [52:44]

• Emphasis that anonymity on the Internet (not privacy) is the chief enabler of modern trafficking: “Anonymity on the Internet has made it so that a 40 year old man can pretend to be a 16 year old boy and start contacting a 14 year old girl...” [59:54]

5. Failings of Law, Prosecution, and Power

[67:48]–[70:35]

• Only ~10% of viable trafficker identifications result in arrest; most DA’s don't understand trafficking cases.
• Law is too complex for most local prosecutors to navigate, making rural America especially vulnerable.
• Nic calls for AI-driven “AI prosecutors” as guidance for these legal bottlenecks, and rails against legal complexity as job security for lawyers.

“Why are laws so complicated that a prosecutor has to be a specialist in a certain type of prosecution?” — Nic [69:17]

6. The 10 Hurdles of Illicit Trafficking: Economic Disruption is Key

[74:13]–[78:28]; [158:12]–[158:32]

• Nic explains that the trafficking trade, like any illicit commodity market, depends on clearing sequential “hurdles” (communication, transport, payment, etc.).
  • Law enforcement at the end alone stops just ~5% at best!
  • If even one in five hurdles becomes a 20% effective barrier, the chance of trafficker success mathematically flips from 95% to just 3.7%.

“If you just make it 20% effective, cumulative mathematics works that in. That trafficker ends up with a 96.3% chance of getting caught.” — Nic [77:19]

7. Predator Platforms: Roblox, Discord, Minecraft & the 764 Cult

Roblox: “Irrecoverable” Platform

[79:02]–[147:07]

• The 764 Group: A “satanic cult group” weaponizing Roblox, Minecraft, and Discord to recruit and groom children for extreme acts—including self-harm, animal harm, and even homicide—eventually selling victims to other predators. [84:50–95:30].
• Nic singles out Roblox as “irrecoverable” for child safety:
  • Unmoderated game publishing, no meaningful safeguards for users, and CEO David Baszucki's wild statements about “predators as an opportunity” and not ruling out nudity in the future.
  • Multiple state attorneys general have filed civil and potential criminal cases against Roblox.
  • Internal financial and incentive structures prevent meaningful change: “Their business model [relies on not] allowing moderation of the games before they get published. That would create this huge backlog... cut into their profits.” [126:18]

“If you hold [Roblox] stock and you don't get rid of this stock after hearing this, you are part of the problem.” — Nic [108:05]

• The “condo games” & simulated school shootings, strip shows, and more disturbing content—published by anyone, visible to kids, fueling an unprecedented child predator ecosystem.

Minecraft & Discord

• Similar risks, but Minecraft is "trying" and possibly recoverable. Discord is deeply problematic as the comms layer connecting predators/kids.

8. Brand Army: "OnlyFans for Young Teens"

[138:15]–[140:09]

• “Brand Army is an OnlyFans for young teens. Now they don't allow pornography... but they do allow bikini shots of 12 year olds and parents are signing their kids up.” — Nic [139:33]
• A stark warning about parental complicity and the normalization of sexualizing children for profit.

9. Hope: Technology as Both Cause and Cure

[154:51]–[169:25]

• Despite the bleakness, Nic is hopeful: AI and aggregated, machine-speed intelligence is closing the gap, making trafficking less profitable and riskier every day in counties where sustained efforts happen.
• “Where we get more and more of this intelligence integrated... as companies and law enforcement actually use the data... we're going to start to see a real disruption.”

10. What Can You Do? Action Steps for Parents, Citizens, and Investors

Practical, Immediately Actionable:

• Get your kids off Roblox (and Discord); spread the word to other parents [148:54]
• Realize your economic participation feeds the problem (in-game purchases, stock holdings).
• Where possible, boycott platforms until they’re forced to change.
  • “Tell all your friends. Deleting Roblox off your phone should be the new virtue signal.” — Nic [168:00]

Support DeliverFund

• 100% donor-funded, rapid scaling, embraces AI/tech, employs ex-intel/LEO.
• “Don't underestimate $50/month going to DeliverFund in what we do because that's literally what keeps the servers running.” — Nic [170:14]
• [deliverfund.org → Donate button]
• Social: @deliverfund, @the.nick.mckinley

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Internet Anonymity:

  “Anonymity on the Internet is the biggest problem, not privacy... If the price of you being anonymous is that children are being raped, being exploited—sorry, that's a price I'm not willing to pay.” — Nic [72:00, 103:13]

• On Roblox's Leadership:

  “We think of [the] predator problem, not necessarily just as a problem, but as an opportunity as well.” — David Baszucki, quoted by Nic [116:01]
  “If you hold this stock and you don't get rid of this stock after hearing this, you are part of the problem.” — Nic [108:05]

• On Agency:

  “Don't wait for somebody else to do something about something that you now know about.” — Andy [168:00]

Timestamps for Core Segments

• State of Child Trafficking Today: [00:23]–[01:14], [50:53]–[61:59]
• Institutional Trust, Government, and Law: [05:14]–[17:25], [67:48]–[70:35]
• Societal/Parent Responsibility & Accountability: [26:08]–[36:01], [154:12]–[155:58]
• Internet, Tech, and Anonymity: [41:03], [72:00], [103:13]
• DeliverFund Impact & Methods: [48:49]–[61:59], [169:25]–[170:21]
• Platforms as Predator Havens (Roblox focus): [79:02]–[147:07]
• Action Steps and Hope: [167:45]–[172:00]

Final Thoughts

This episode is a clarion call for vigilance and collective action. Nic McKinley’s expertise and urgency, coupled with Andy’s candor and parental perspective, offer both sobering insight and an actionable path. Technology has enabled unprecedented predation on children, but, as Nic emphasizes, it can also—and must—be harnessed to defeat it, provided individuals and institutions have the courage to act.

For more info or to support anti-trafficking efforts:

• DeliverFund.org
• Follow: @deliverfund | @the.nick.mckinley

"Deleting Roblox off your phone should be the new virtue signal." — Nic McKinley [168:00]