Full Family Friday - 11/28/2025

Summary

Cleared Hot – Full Family Friday (11/28/2025)

Host: Andy Stumpf
Guests: Leah, Vaughn (Andy’s dad), Michael
Theme: Family, service, gratitude, and sharing generational wisdom in a candid, humorous roundtable.

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Episode Overview

This Family Friday episode brings together Andy Stumpf, his wife Leah, his father Vaughn, and family friend Michael for a laid-back and heartfelt conversation spanning family traditions, military service, parenting philosophies, life changes, and the humor that keeps them together. They offer rich stories from different generations, reflecting on their own upbringings, service experience, and philosophical approaches to discomfort, growth, and self-improvement.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Hero BJJ: The Costa Rica Jiu Jitsu Connection

[02:06-11:58]

• Leah describes Hero BJJ, a nonprofit jiu-jitsu academy in Tamarindo, Costa Rica, providing free lessons, uniforms, and school supplies to local children. The academy is a critical community hub, especially during flood seasons and COVID lockdowns.

  “They actually give free Jiu Jitsu lessons to children, local children. ... they give them Jiu Jitsu uniforms, they give them school supplies for the year.” – Leah [02:13]

• All proceeds from the annual seminars directly fund the program, with instructors donating their time.

• Andy notes the trip doubles as a family/surfing adventure with a “who’s who” of high-level black belts and world-class surf instruction.

• Banter about Costa Rica:

  • Wildlife (howler monkeys!), the tourist culture, and the tangible impact of the outreach.
  • Family logistics for the next seminar (February 2026).
  • The story of Dan Hart, another donating instructor.
  • Hero BJJ’s founder, Ron Jarman, is highlighted.

2. Thanksgiving Past and Present: Family Traditions and Lessons

[12:18-23:16]

• Michael leads a Q&A, launching with family Thanksgiving memories.

• Vaughn reflects on how family gatherings have evolved, focusing less on the meal, more on togetherness and gratitude.

  “Just taking some time to be thankful, especially for us this year ... having the grandkids, all three of them, really starting to get some air under their wings and showing some real neat growth.” – Vaughn [14:06]

• Leah recounts her massive Italian family’s holiday chaos: always 30+ people, kids at their own table, never quite “graduating” to the adults’.

• Stories of Vaughn’s “snot blown” German family: gatherings marked by stubbornness, occasional arguments, and rare moments of genuine happiness and laughter, like hunting and fishing trips.

• The contrast of cultures is unpacked: German bluntness versus the openly affectionate Italian side of the family.

  “When the family unit is that close... they start advising each other on life choices. Unsolicited, of course...” – Leah [19:41]

3. Military Thanksgivings and Lessons From Service

[23:24–29:48]

• Vaughn and Andy discuss what it’s like to spend holidays in uniform — sometimes it means cold MREs under a poncho, sometimes chow halls try to bring a semblance of home with turkey and “grade F steak.”

  “They do their best ... sometimes you just can’t get it done.” – Andy [29:07]

• For many, it’s an emotionally charged coming-of-age — missing home, forming a new kind of family.

• They joke about losing weight on deployment, the dangers of Skittles-and-cookie-based diets, and being “combat ineffective” after a shipment of Girl Scout cookies.

4. Family Banter and Inherited Humor

[31:02–42:05]

• Leah’s perspective: How she adapted to Andy’s “inappropriate comments” and the blunt, wry humor present across generations.

• Leah highlights Andy’s ability to “turn it on/off,” especially with other veterans.

• Family wit carries through to their kids, who immediately roast each other after months apart:

  “Within an hour, Julia looked at Tyler and goes, ‘You have a vagina.’” – Andy [37:15]

• Vaughn and Andy’s dynamic: Sarcastic, direct, and open to healthy conflict, they “never cut each other any slack.”

• The family’s willingness to address issues head-on, not afraid of hard conversations.

5. Foundational Family Advice & Stories of Standing Up

[41:30–48:59]

• Andy is asked about the best advice from his dad:

  “One of the core principles I still live my life to ... stand up for what you believe in.” – Andy [42:52]

• Vaughn tells the story of interceding physically for a fellow recruit being abused in boot camp, getting thrown in the brig, but ultimately driving out a toxic leader.

• Also, the baseball coach incident: Andy, frustrated with a toxic coach, stands up, leading Vaughn to have a direct talk (almost a confrontation), demonstrating advocacy and boundary-setting.

  “You got two choices here. I can either be your best friend or your worst fucking enemy.” – Vaughn [47:15]

6. BJJ Black Belt Criteria & Competition

[49:20–54:45]

• Leah provides a nuanced explanation of what it takes to earn a black belt:

  “At black belt, you have an A game, a very defined A game and you have a good base. ... Not being too one dimensional... If their normal stuff isn’t working, they shift and do something different.” – Leah [50:07]

• Competition is not required but makes it easier to evaluate readiness; the rise of masters divisions is making jiu jitsu more accessible for all ages/levels.

7. Sanity, Struggles, and Personal Growth

[55:15–64:54]

• Michael asks: Who is more sane?

• Leah praises both men’s willingness to pursue growth, therapy, and emotional openness — rare, especially in their respective fields.

• Vaughn opens up about periods of struggle with alcohol and unresolved trauma, crediting his wife and the Vet Center for his turnaround.

  “She just said, you know, you’ve got to go get help, or I’m gonna take the kids. ... It exposed me to something I couldn’t have done by myself.” – Vaughn [57:38, 58:34]

• Powerful story: Community sweat lodge with fellow veterans, emphasizing the necessity of group support and authenticity in healing.

  “All vets, so many of us, we pack everything inside and don’t share ... realizing I wasn’t the only one that felt that way.” – Vaughn [59:23]

8. Aging, Health, and Looking Ahead

[65:06–72:08]

• Testosterone therapy comes up (hilariously), and broader midlife health changes.

• Vaughn: Looking to “rehone” himself, volunteer more, and find new purpose post-retirement.

  “I want to get. Be a better person, you know, and I’m not sure how to put that there...” – Vaughn [71:01]

• Leah: Recovering from injury, coaching, refreshing kids’ BJJ curriculum, learning digital art, and cherishing family time.

• Both emphasize ongoing self-improvement, community involvement, and staying engaged with family.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On helping others and community (Leah, 02:13):
  “They actually give free Jiu Jitsu lessons to children... they give them Jiu Jitsu uniforms, they give them school supplies for the year.”

• On family evolution (Vaughn, 14:06):
  “Just taking some time to be thankful... especially for us this year having, for me having the grandkids ... showing some real neat growth.”

• On gratitude and holidays (Leah, 16:53):
  “Holidays are kind of the only time that everything stops... you can kind of actually spend time with family and just be.”

• On standing up for what’s right (Andy, 42:52):
  “Stand up for what you believe in... that’s probably the foundational framework of who I am.”

• On coming out of military trauma (Vaughn, 59:23):
  “I thought I was the only one that felt that way. ... realizing I wasn’t the only one that felt that way. And I’d have never got there without her.”

• On aging, health, and humor (Vaughn, 66:54):
  “...she asked me how. She said, well, where are you at now? I said, well, it’s not really morning wood, but I’ll say at least it’s kindling. You know, I got something to work with anyway.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |---|---|---| | Hero BJJ and Costa Rica Trips | [02:06–11:58] | | Family Thanksgiving Stories | [12:18–23:16] | | Military Holidays | [23:24–29:48] | | Intergenerational Humor | [31:02–42:05] | | Foundational Advice/Stories of Advocacy | [41:30–48:59] | | Black Belt Criteria and Masters Jiu Jitsu | [49:20–54:45] | | Sanity, Counseling, Trauma Recovery | [55:15–64:54] | | Health, Hormones, and Goals for 2026 | [65:06–72:08] |

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Closing Thoughts

The “Full Family Friday” episode showcases raw, heartfelt conversations that are equal parts humor, vulnerability, and life experience. Through stories about family traditions, military service, the evolution of martial arts, and the ongoing pursuit of betterment, the Stumpf family—plus friends—offer a relatable, motivational example of what it means to live intentionally, push through discomfort, and savor the messiness of real life with those you love.

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For those interested in Hero BJJ, surf and jiu jitsu seminars, or supporting the cause:
Visit herobjj.com for more information and opportunities to get involved.

Transcript

[A]

Okay, I got the red smoke.

[B]

Sun runs north or south west of the smoke. West of the smoke.

[A]

Okay, copy.

[B]

West of the smoke.

[A]

I'm looking at danger close now.

[C]

Oh, wait a minute.

[B]

Give it to me. I mean, it cleared. Hot coffee cleared.

[A]

Hot card has got more. Is it back in the green?

[D]

12 plus hours.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Did you make sure Leah's microphone is actually on with the lever?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I did that before.

[A]

Yeah, sure. You know who did that. You know who did your job. This is what I have to deal with all the time.

[C]

Honey, you told him to be here a half an hour late and he was still on time.

[A]

Yeah, but he should be able to decode that and realize that on time, it doesn't matter what the time actually.

[D]

Should read his mind.

[A]

All right. Okay. So do you want to open with talking about Hero at the beginning and then we can go into the questions or what do you want to do?

[C]

We did it at the end last time.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So I think that kind of makes more sense. Right?

[A]

Okay. We're already podcasting right now, so we're just deciding in real time what's heroes.

[C]

What.

[A]

Is the school that we go train at in Tamarindo where we're getting ready to go next week?

[C]

Don't we need headphones?

[B]

No.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Okay, well, we can use them. Can you hear me currently?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

How's that working out?

[C]

We did headphones last time.

[A]

We're evolving here.

[C]

Okay. Very high tech.

[A]

Yes, I agree.

[C]

Can everyone see Michael well enough?

[A]

Michael, turn the camera on to yourself. Look right in it with.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, you can see me do the.

[A]

Can you do the duck lips? Do that with your mustache.

[B]

Nope.

[C]

It's so dark. It's so dark over there.

[A]

No, I have his. He has professional.

[D]

I've got my own light.

[A]

Oh, wow. Yeah, he's going to have a drop down ceiling light here soon enough as well.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Great upgrades.

[D]

The audience wants to see more of me.

[C]

Yeah, of course they do. I mean, that's.

[A]

That's one piece of feedback, but yeah. What do you guys want to start? It's. I put a post out for Q and A. So we have questions from the Internet that Michael will select. Or we could open with talking about Hero bjj.

[C]

Yeah, we can. We can talk about that quick. Um, so we go down every year. We attend some jiu Jitsu seminars in Costa Rica, and then I also have one that'll be February 19th through the 23rd. It is CO. We do both GI and no GI. So just to kind of get that out of the way. And then the business itself, it's actually a non profit, it's been running for a while. And they actually give free Jiu Jitsu lessons to children, local children. Yeah, they go and bus them, they'll pick them up from their neighborhoods, they give them Jiu Jitsu uniforms, they give them school supplies for the year. And it's also acted as a community outright outreach center. In a lot of difficult times down there. There's not really an infrastructure to handle. There's no federal aid or anything like that to handle when there's flooding or during COVID they were feeding people, they got food shipped down there and they were distributing it in the local community. Recently there was flooding, which is seasonal, but it was particularly bad this year and they managed to get mattresses to a bunch of families that had lost all of their bedding to the incident. So really great cause. And they're funded entirely by Jiu Jitsu seminars. So there's a bunch of seminars. So even if you don't go to mine, but mine's going to be awesome because it's half surfing, half Jiu Jitsu.

[A]

And the best demonstrate.

[C]

Yes, touch the best. But even if you don't go to mine, just check out, if you go to herobjdata.com and check out their website, there are so many high level instructors that he gets to go down there. And who is this they?

[A]

Ron.

[C]

His name is Ron Jarman and he is the current head of Hero bjj, which is the.

[B]

Where is he based?

[C]

Out of Tamarindo, Costa Rica. He's from Chicago area originally, but they live down there most of the year, he and his wife and their dog.

[A]

Would you like to come with us sometime? I hear through Casey, since you won't complain to me directly, that you are desiring to join us in Costa Rica. Today's episode is brought to you by AG1. You guys have probably heard me talking about this quite a bit recently. Their new product, agz. In the mornings, I'm super structured. I know what time I'm gonna get up. I wake up, I have water, I have my AG1 so I can tackle hydration and micronutrients. You know, I scheduled my day out. I know how it's gonna go. I'm a little bit more regimented and disciplined in the evening, kind of a mess. Bedtime comes when it does, depending on the day, depending on what I need to get done. And I don't have as much of a structure. This is what I'm trying to work on going into 2026, taking the end of my evening or the end of my day and treating it with the same level of respect as the beginning. That's where AGZ comes in. AGZ is a nightly drink that helps you wind down and rest up. It's a melatonin free formula with clinically studied herbs, adaptogens and minerals. It helps your body and mind wind down before bed. It optimizes your sleep quality during the night, and you wake up feeling rested without the feeling of grogginess, which is absolute worst. AGZ has no artificial flavors, artificial sweeteners, or added sugar. You can have it warm or cold. You can drink it with water or milk, whatever your heart desires. AGZ is also an excellent source of magnesium, which helps you wind down at the end of the day. Each serving delivers 250mg of highly bioavailable magnesium, providing over half of your daily value. So if you're like me and you're ready to be a little bit more targeted in your evening routine, you're ready to turn down the stress, focus on the rest, head to drink ag1.com cleared hot and you're going to get a free frother with your first purchase of AGZ, that is drinkag1.com ClearedHot back to the show.

[B]

I'll have to consider it.

[C]

You should come back.

[B]

You'd love it.

[C]

It's amazing. There's so many. It's very tourist friendly and there's so many amazing excursions. I mean, you can go fishing.

[B]

Well, it's a part of the world I haven't been to. So that would be.

[A]

This trip will be, I think our eighth trip.

[B]

Yeah. You've been going a while.

[A]

Well, we go to every time we go there. We've yet to go for anything other than this Jiu Jitsu camp because the money that we spe on the camp is going to exactly what Leah was just talking. Our friend Dan Hart. Nicest Jiu Jitsu school I've ever seen. By the way, is it Alpha BJJ anymore? Is it so Heart or is it.

[C]

It's Heart Jiu Jitsu now and Woodstock, Illinois.

[A]

Confusing Dan, pick a branding name.

[C]

Yes, that's. It's Heart Jiu Jitsu now this week.

[A]

Who knows what it'll be by the time we see him. His one is this one in December.

[C]

We're headed to that one next week.

[A]

How many members from Bozeman SBG did you say are joining?

[C]

I think, I think like 20. So a bunch of Montana People show up to that one. And he donates 100% of the proceeds back because he has, he has a bunch of his own businesses. So all of that money goes back into the camps. He also does a lot in terms of getting them uniforms and school supplies as well.

[B]

So is this a pretty much third world country? I mean, is there.

[A]

I would say parts. Well, parts of Costa Rica probably would be.

[C]

Are very rural. Yeah. Outside the city. So the city we're going to, Tamarindo, is pretty modern. Yeah, but that's a very tourist heavy area. A lot of people would say that's not real Costa Rica. You know, if you go a little bit outside the city.

[B]

Tourism is the major main industry in Tamarinda.

[C]

I would say it is in that area for sure. Farming, I think, is really big elsewhere. Coffee, they grow a lot of coffee.

[A]

You get anything you want from the beach. Chocolate, sunglasses, coconuts, cocaine, slushy, whatever you might want.

[B]

Oh, I'm in.

[C]

A lot of spices are grown in that part of the world. We've gotten some. We've gotten some really cool excursions, though. There's crazy wildlife there. We've seen sloths and we've gone scuba diving there before. We've seen. There's monkeys that are running around in town.

[A]

Tremendously large balls. They remind me of the howler monkeys they have. It's. It's literally, it's the. It's the monkey version of Javi. You look at their body and they'll lay down on a branch.

[B]

You're like, hey, nice, nice hack, huh?

[A]

It's it. You'll scratch your head thinking about it a bit. When are the dates of your seminar?

[C]

February 19th through 23rd of 2026. So coming up. And again, mine includes the surf lessons. So there's a very high level instructor down there, Nacho Ignacio, and he is a Jiu Jitsu black belt and a.

[A]

Very surfing black belt.

[C]

And a surfing. I would call him a surfing black belt, but he's a very good instructor. And the surf area that he teaches out of is very forgiving. Sandy bottom, small waves, it's great for beginners. If you're a more advanced surfer, there's tons of other places you could go and get some really good waves.

[B]

How big an area is it? More than one. Did you have one of those? What's that?

[A]

Didn't you just have one of those?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're gonna have two Delta Charlies in one day. What about your stage 2 diabetes?

[B]

This doesn't affect it.

[A]

Really?

[B]

No.

[A]

Have you done any research Whatsoever about sweetened beverages and the endocrine response from your body.

[B]

I can't read the. In whatever they put in it. I don't know what it is.

[C]

It's just delicious. It's just delicious.

[D]

It just tastes good.

[B]

I figure if I don't read about it, it's not going to kill me, you know.

[A]

Oh, that's.

[C]

Yeah, that's definitely as in yet, I guess.

[B]

Well, I very seldom drink these. I usually drink the Coke Zero, which is. Actually has a decent taste. These things are like depth charges or.

[A]

What's in a Coke Zero?

[B]

Probably something worse than this. Yeah.

[A]

How have you made it this far?

[B]

I was thinking about that the other day, just, you know.

[A]

Do you have a passport not to get off of Costa Rica. Do you know where it is?

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's in my fanny pack.

[A]

Okay. Is it within. What does Costa Rica require? Six months. You gotta have a certain. How recent is it?

[B]

Probably within a year.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if you want to come in February, obviously it's gonna require dogs sitting. If we only knew somebody.

[D]

If only you knew somebody.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

We've got to get Michael down there too.

[A]

There's a ladies camp which you could attend for two reasons. One, it'd be your best training partner. But two, also a chance to actually talk to a woman.

[D]

Yeah, for sure.

[C]

That's not what ladies camps are for, just so you know.

[A]

No, I was just saying there's two potential there.

[B]

You'd have to get a nice fitting speedo, though.

[A]

I was gonna say your mustache.

[B]

I wasn't going to go. You know, I might just trim the mustache up a little bit.

[A]

Dot com.

[C]

Yep. And again, lots of other instructors there are. For mine in particular, the surf lessons are included. Andy will be down there training. We had a bunch of. Some of my friends came down last year so we had some other black belts on the mat. Sarah Kaufman, former UFC fighter, now Canadian police officer, was down there. She said she's not mean.

[B]

So how many people participants are going to be there with your class?

[C]

Yeah, I'm not sure yet. I mean they cap it. Dan's had as many as 40. I think his has been the largest camp. So I think I had around 20 last time which was full gyms.

[B]

I mean a real.

[C]

They have. The gym is a large matted space. Pretty much. Yeah. Large matted space. They do cold plunge while you're down there as part of the Agua de Pipa. The deal. Yep. Baby coconuts. One day we do sunset roll up on a ridge and so they drag the mats up there, and you finish, you do an open mat just as the sun setting over the ocean. It's really cool.

[B]

I'll miss that.

[C]

You could always go up there and watch.

[A]

You might need it.

[C]

You don't have to fight people.

[B]

We.

[A]

I just. I just scheduled the. We use golf carts. We get electric golf carts. Charge at the house.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's fine for Julia and Tyler and Riley to drive around. Probably more Tyler and Riley than Julia.

[C]

But don't tell her that.

[A]

Yeah, sorry. She won't listen to this. But, yeah, it. It's pretty dialed. There's easy food options, grocery stores, what it's going for.

[B]

What a great idea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, Those. Those things are especially, like, areas like that. I mean, it's.

[C]

Yeah. Some of the kids have been in that program since they were very young, and now they're. They're teens moving to university and coming back and helping teach. It's. It's. It's very cool.

[A]

Savages. All right, Michelle.

[B]

All right.

[D]

You guys ready for questions?

[A]

How did you decide which questions you were going to ask? What was your criteria for today? I'm assuming most of these are for Leah and my dad.

[D]

Yeah, pretty much. There are a few for you, but my criteria. There were a couple of Thanksgiving ones, so I thought that was pertinent given that Thanksgiving's in a couple days. So. Yeah, I guess we'll just start with those ones. What does Thanksgiving mean to Vaughn and Leah? And do your families have any special traditions for celebrating? Any new traditions you've incorporated?

[B]

I think it just all revolves around family. At least for me it does, especially as I get older. We used to. It was one of the few times when I was. As a kid growing up that our families got together. And I'll never forget the first time I took your mother with me to Thanksgiving at my house. And the whole. All the stumps were there. Yes. She was probably 18 and.

[A]

Good answer. For the purpose of your story.

[B]

Well, I just, you know, brain chip falls out.

[A]

I. Yeah. No, I'm just saying it's better than saying 16 because.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Taking miners places.

[B]

I understand. But driving home and she says. I said, well, what do you think? She says, you were all yelling at each other. I said, that's just how we kind of run with. And she said, I mean, I'll never forget that.

[A]

I mean, which stumps were there? So probably Clarence.

[B]

Clarence, his dad, Chip and Donna, My grandparents, Chip and Hazel. I mean, it was the. It was the real backbone of that family.

[A]

And did they get along well. I don't remember any of these. Did they get along well in large settings?

[B]

Pretty much. There was three things I can remember. Thanksgiving, Christmas, and when the men would all go hunting. That's why the place that I go to every year up in Ennis where we used to go hunt and fish on the Madison. I realized it was the only time I ever saw all the men in my family laughing at the same time together. Huh. It's. It was just a very German hard headed family, you know, it's. It's just the way it was. But just having everybody together, you know, it's. I don't care about the big meal all that much anymore, but just taking some time to be thankful, you know, Especially for us this year having, for me having the grandkids, all three of them, really starting to get some air under their wings and showing some real neat growth. It's. Yeah, it's. It's. It's a special thing when you can see your kids do that. Even more so when your grandkids. Because I mean, you guys are the only example. I was here, you know, and those are those, those things become real big, you know, and the setting that we have now up at your place in Proctor is. I mean, jeez, that's an experience in itself. Yeah, they're quiet and that's not a bad view. Oh, well, no, it's just a lot of good stuff.

[A]

What'd you guys do? You have an Italian family with like 847 members?

[C]

Yeah. Every family gathering, including birthday parties were no less than 30 people. A lot of cousins. So it was, it was a big event. There was a whole room for just kids or a whole table because there were so many of us.

[A]

Was there a king of the kids table? Was it based off of age?

[C]

We were all just down there. It was all the cousins.

[A]

They put you in the basement?

[C]

No, no, just often a smaller table. We were not at the main table at any point, really.

[B]

What was the.

[A]

How did you get to the main table? You had to turn 18.

[C]

We never did.

[A]

Ever.

[C]

It never happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

There just wasn't enough room in the house. There were two rooms. There was four.

[A]

You do have a tremendous amount of cousins.

[C]

A smaller table in the same room. Yeah, I think there was maybe one year that they extended the table into the living room at a different house and we were able to all fit.

[A]

Traditional fare though. Turkey?

[C]

Yeah, pretty. Pretty traditional. Yeah. For that. And just time with cousins, you know, time with family. And realizing after the COVID shutdown, holidays are kind of the only time that everything stops. You know, like most workplaces are closed in the US and so you have this pause where you can kind of actually spend time with family and just be. Try to be more present and grateful for what we actually have. Not always be looking for the next thing or the next moment or what we're doing next, but just kind of enjoy the time.

[B]

Yeah. It was talking about an Italian family. Donnie, my uncle Clarence's brother, he married an Italian gal. And I never had any experience with or exposure to Italian families. And they were a great family. We'd go over sometimes in the afternoon. I never saw so many people.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What was her maiden name? Do you remember?

[B]

Oh, gosh, they'll be. No, I'll think of it. But this was a really old Italian family in an old part of Santa Cruz, which is Italians. They were all the fishermen basically that fished the Monterey Bay. And they had a little garage which their dad had made into a. A bar, you know, and he had a. They're there with their little glasses of wine and what have you. Just a community. These old riveled, shriveled up old guys that were. Go down there and get tight in the afternoon and you know, and just. Yeah, you couldn't understand them half the time because they'd go between English and Italian like it was putting your socks on, you know. But it was, it was a neat exposure to a completely different culture than I had ever. I just saw nothing but angry snot blown Germans, you know, that were.

[A]

What were they fighting about?

[B]

Who's right, you know, and it never needed a topic. It was just. It was. Your mom says you guys just yelled all the time.

[C]

That would happen in our family too. Usually some kind of blew up.

[B]

Well, it was just the sheer volume, you know, it wasn't necessary a lot of times an argument, but they would develop. But that was one of the things that made Ennis so special for me is seeing that's the only time. And I just figured this out a few years ago. It's the only time I ever saw all the men in my family happy together, you know, because work was. I mean, when it was on, it was on and it was on all the time. It's the only vacation the men in that family took. I saw my parents take one vacation the whole time I ever was around him.

[A]

Where'd they go?

[B]

Went to Seattle when they open up the Space Needle. So that was like 61, 62, 63, somewhere around in there.

[A]

1861.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know, yeah, space needle is.

[B]

Old, but I mean, literally, that's. That's. That's all we did. Just worked and argued.

[C]

Well, I think when the family unit is that close, we all lived, you know, within eight blocks of each other. And they start advising each other on life choices. Unsolicited, of course, business relationship, child rearing. Here's what you should be doing. And you have to do this, and there's no way around it. And then they'll get other people on their side. And then you call it triangulation. I know there's a name for it now, and it doesn't work out very well. Most adults don't like being told what to do instead of just kind of letting them figure that stuff out for themselves. It's.

[B]

Well, there was only three households in my family, but. And they were. The three homes were.

[E]

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[C]

Yeah, there are things I really miss about that. I go see my cousins I grew up with. We just went to Florida and visited my cousins. And, I mean, we just understand each other so well, you know, I miss being close to them.

[B]

My family broke up and, you know, people you would drive by, you weren't even allowed to look at the other house when you drove. I mean, it was in.

[C]

That's a tiny town, too.

[A]

Did you flip them off?

[B]

Oh, it was just insanity, you know, And I had my cousin Chip, who. We've always been very close. We still communicated on back channels, you know, but it wasn't until my dad and I had the separation that I really, really, really became close with my uncle. I mean, he literally just stepped in.

[A]

And Donnie was awesome.

[B]

Yeah, he was. He was. I think of him a lot of times like this.

[A]

How many miles did he have on his Corvette when he died?

[B]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe 100.

[C]

Oh, man, that's a shame.

[A]

In the garage, it was yellow, wasn't it?

[B]

You know, it could have been.

[A]

I'm pretty sure it was yellow.

[C]

Did it at least work on it or wash it or.

[A]

He didn't need to. It was one of the.

[C]

It just would stay in the garage.

[A]

It was like a late 90s when they had updated the body style. Nothing like the current ones, but I feel like it was his dream car. And if all conditions were met, like no birds in the air, no clouds in the sky. Between 12pm and 12:20pm he would go, drive.

[C]

I can't wait. Can't wait.

[B]

I used to always go down and see him. He'd always sit in the same place. And he said, vonnie. It's always called me Vonnie. He says, I'm buying a Corvette. I've always wanted a. I said, did you get caught doing something or, you know. I said, yes. You know, he says, no. He says, I mean, I think he paid cash for it. He paid cash for everything.

[A]

He did just fine for himself.

[B]

Oh, he did, you know, all of that money when the family came apart and he finally won through a Supreme Court decision that the family business was not a corporation, split it up equally. All of the money he got from that. He had that money in the bank the day he died. He was so set. Such a proud man. He was going to do it on his own own. Wow.

[A]

He never touched it.

[B]

Never touched it.

[A]

I can think of a few ways that you could have invested that and at least gotten a reasonable return for. She is just taking millions of dollars.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

You know, family.

[C]

Stick it under the mattress. Put it under the Corvette.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Wedge it.

[B]

Well, you know, families are. I mean, they're a trip. I mean, they're just indeed complicated.

[D]

This is same vein, but more for Vaughn and Andy. What's Thanksgiving like in the military?

[A]

Depends on where you are.

[B]

Depends where you are, you know. Yeah. I can remember having food brought out to us under a poncho and it's just pouring down rain, you know, and you. You got to get to the bottom of it before it fills up with water.

[C]

Sounds horrible.

[A]

It's very Full Metal Jacket. I feel like you just saw that in a movie and now you think it's real.

[B]

Oh, no, it's. I mean, we were very lucky. We weren't ever, very seldom ever put in that position. But they just. When the food was going to show up, that's. You went there. Whether it was two days late or two days early. They always brought, you know, helicopter full of beer, which was not refrigerated, but doesn't matter. No, it's kind of a special time. You get to be around people. You go into chow hall. If you're in the country and you're young, you know, it's a rite of passage. You go through a lot of emotions and it's a lot of growing up, being on your own and having a holiday like that to slam you, but you're not by yourself. I Mean, even though a lot of times you feel like you're by yourself, even though you're surrounded by a lot of people.

[C]

You guys were both so young too. That was kind of your first holiday away from me.

[A]

I was mature for my age though.

[C]

At 18, I bet, running from the police. Mature.

[B]

Five foot four and 140 pounds.

[A]

Why do you, why do you always tell me that I was shorter? I was fully grown height wise by the time I was.

[B]

I take it back, you were 4 foot 6.

[A]

Sure, I was 6 foot tall. I did weigh 150.

[C]

I think Von's still slightly taller.

[A]

Maybe he might be depending on the walking shoes he's wearing. But.

[B]

Well, you know, it's, it's. Andy was kind of like me. He, you know, he had experience. Well, boot camp. He went to the Great Lakes, which was in winter, which was a harsh, harsh environment. Probably did most of your stuff indoors.

[A]

No, because I went in August. I enlisted in the military. August 1, 1996. That was my ship off date.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Winter was not to parrot Game of Thrones. Winter was coming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you guys came out for graduation. But I did, I came that home that year. I had already moved to Virginia beach and I came home that year for Thanksgiving.

[B]

Oh yeah, that's right. You had that communication school you went to.

[A]

Yeah, I went to the operations specialist school.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

No, it depends. Like if, if you're home, they'll give you time off. Like you just put in leave and you go home and hang out with your family. You're not going to do training trips over Thanksgiving because they're going to try to get you home. Yeah, if you're overseas, you're just overseas. And honestly the days on the calendar don't really matter that much. If you're at an established base, they'll try to probably cook you a better meal.

[C]

But do they make a Thanksgiving type meal?

[A]

If they have the resources. But again, you know, I've talked about this before. We were at Bagram Air Base and it was. They would do steak and lobster or steak and shrimp. I think it was on Fridays or it might have been Sundays. It was like 20 years in the rearview mirror at this point. I remember walking out one time and I saw the boxes of the steak and it said grade F steak for military and prison use only. So yeah, they'll do their best.

[C]

Yeah, ish.

[A]

That was the last time I had steak.

[B]

It's more quantity than quality. You know, they do their best.

[A]

They do what they can.

[C]

Was there ever a point where you Were totally out in the field, kind of like Vaughn was for the one year.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What did you have then? Mre Probably Skittles.

[B]

Yeah. See, we. We were. We were eating sea rats from the Korean War.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

I mean. I mean, you'd open up some of that meat and I. It would be the color of, you know, that fanny pack. It was. That's why we.

[A]

We cooked everything in 2010, my last deployment, because we were building the base that we were on, because when we first got there, we were co located with the Afghan national army and police force, which was interesting. So we built the base. We were. We were heating up sea rats, so we were boiling water in those huge tins.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I went back to the Skittles diet after that for a little bit too.

[C]

You didn't eat. You didn't eat one of them.

[A]

It was tough to eat.

[C]

What's the difference between a C rat and an mre?

[A]

An mre, well, it has its own. Here it literally comes in its own little package meal. Ready to eat the C rations. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

They had biscuits, chocolate.

[A]

C rations are bigger quantities. Like the trays this big, and then you just boil water underneath it, heat it up.

[C]

Okay. So one required its own heat source.

[A]

You would say, and was for a larger amount of people. And MRE is an individual.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I think they say.

[C]

Did they still do both or.

[A]

Probably depends on where you are. Yeah. Then. So if we were to go travel to these other more built up locations, they'd have full chow holes and you could eat your great f steak till your heart's content.

[B]

Yeah, but all of that stuff was just a. A rite of passage. And I'd been around men forever, so I was used to. It wasn't all that intimidating, you know, but a lot of kids, where you meet him, like from North Carolina or South Carolina or what have you, you just didn't go home. It was always. Yeah, it was different, but. Yeah, it's just part of what you do.

[A]

Military holidays is up to the best of their ability. Like you'll get turkey and mashed potatoes and stuffing on a military base. It's maybe not the quantity table.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

They do what they can. There's Christmas trees in the chow hall. They do the best that they can wherever you are in the world, but sometimes you just can't get it done.

[B]

Everybody's getting packages from home with cookies and pies and cakes and, you know, and a lot of them have been thrown out of the back of A truck. And it's just a powder in them. But, you know, we all sit around and. Oh, yeah, you know.

[C]

Would you still eat them?

[B]

Oh, God, yeah.

[A]

100.

[B]

You're licking the wrapper it's in because, I mean, there's some seasoning, sugar and whatever it. You know, there's bits of pieces of, you know, whatever. Yeah, those are.

[A]

It's not as bad as people think.

[C]

I've seen pictures. You came back pretty thin a few times.

[A]

So, yeah, we were not only busy, but slightly undernourished.

[C]

Well, you stopped eating most of what they were giving you.

[A]

That was the very first deployment I did to Iraq. We were on MREs for about 90 days, and at the end, I could only eat the candy that was in it. So, yes, I probably came back. We did get one shipment of Girl Scout cookies and the entire squadron, I would say, verged on being combat ineffective for about 72 hours because we're just talking sleeves of Girl Scout cookies.

[B]

So, yeah, then dealing with constipation. Oh, God. I mean, you just power all that stuff and then you go, oh, God, yeah. What do I do next here?

[A]

That one was a bespoke experience for sure.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

What else you got, Michael?

[D]

All right, this is for Leah. How long did it take Leah to get used to Andy's inappropriate comments in public? What is the most recent one that made her shake her head and wonder, what is wrong with you?

[A]

What time is it today?

[C]

You know, I. He actually is very reserved, depending on the setting, so he can kind of turn it on or off. I would say definitely around other military people. We were just at. Down in Florida at the La Mullet Race.

[A]

The Freedom four hours of Le Mullets.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

My pro racing debut, if you will.

[C]

He became a rally car racer, but he was around other veterans and car racers and the commentary. Or Bucky Lazik was his partner. His rally car partner, who is a pro skateboarder and pro racer. Pro racer, yeah, both. And yeah, so the commentary shifted a little. For sure. There were a lot of.

[A]

Yeah, I did not notice.

[C]

So I. Yeah, I guess that was. That's the last time I can think of where it was. I mean, every 15 minutes.

[A]

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[C]

I don't know, I mean just some of the things you guys think of as fun. I mean Bucky flipped that car. Tayson got out and bowed to the crowd and he was totally fine. I mean mentally, physically, the first half of the race were more non drivers. And the guy that got flipped out of that, he did not look as comfortable or okay when he got out. Bucky, I guess that's just normal for him. So. And just from your base jumping background and everything, I don't know, just some of the stunts they were talking about doing and what, what is driving really fast, running into other people on a racetrack, flipping cars. I was like, ah, no, that sounds. That all sounds horrible.

[A]

But how awesome was that nose slide of the minivan?

[C]

Watching the minivans race and jump was something else. Yeah, but to be driving that or want to do that. No, I just. It's just not my thing. It wouldn't be my day. But they were wanting to race in that, you know, next year. I don't know if that'll be possible. Hopefully not.

[A]

But it's safe to say that you're used to what comes out of my mouth now though, right?

[C]

For the most part, yeah. How long did it take to get used to it? I mean, I've. I've had a lot of jobs where I was mostly around guys, I guess. So it wasn't. It wasn't. I mean, I'm a jiu jitsu black belt. It's like you get kind of comfortable with the banter and you kind of hang or you. Or you're not having very much fun. So. Yeah, it was. And he is hilarious. I mean, you have to agree, sometimes it's a little over the edge.

[A]

Your edge.

[C]

Everyone has a different edge. Yeah. Well, I met Vaughn and I said, wow, you sound just like Andy. He's like, Andy sounds like me, which makes sense.

[D]

Yeah, that's actually a good segue. Another question for Leah. How much of Vaughn do you see in Andy and how much Andy do you see in his kids?

[C]

Oh, yeah, a lot. So a lot of the mannerisms, definitely. The humor, the sarcasm, a lot of that comes straight from the source here. He has a real sharp wit and sense of humor. Right. The first day I met him, I was actually very sick. I had. I was recovering from a cold and I couldn't really talk. I had a really hoarse voice. He started making fun of me immediately. I mean, just everything that came out of my mouth, I was like, holy cow. I'm like, good thing that I grew up playing sports and, you know, in the jujitsu gym, because otherwise I would not like this guy be. But he was. He was ruthless, like, right away, and I just had to laugh, you know? So that was my first Vaughn exposure. He came out here by himself and stayed with us for a while.

[B]

So we went to that pizza place by Murdoch's. What's the heck the name of that place?

[A]

Blue Moon.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. It's.

[C]

I don't know if I'd call Blue Moon a pizza place.

[B]

No, no, it was. It's a franchise. There's another one over by.

[A]

Oh, Mackenzie River.

[B]

Yeah, that's where Blue Moon. Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Yeah. So that was it. And then now I'd say it's kind of swapping back and forth in terms of sarcasm and mannerisms and things like that. But both very honest and truthful to. I would say to family members. They're both willing to have hard conversations, which a lot of people aren't. They'll just let things slide or not address it. And, yeah, they're both very sincere.

[A]

Which do you see in the kids?

[C]

The kids, definitely. The wit. Holy cow. Tyler came home from college last night, and him and Julia were immediately just on each other. I mean, they are within an hour.

[B]

I'm surprised it took that long.

[A]

Within an hour. Julia looked at Tyler and goes. Julia looks at Tyler and goes, you have a vagina.

[B]

And that was the opening.

[A]

Then they started arguing.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And he's like, you have a vagina. She's like, yeah, I'm a girl. And then I don't think they.

[C]

No, Tyler said that. Tyler said. You know, she said she. She stopped at a rest stop, and her boyfriend was waiting to make sure that she was okay because they were kind of in the middle of nowhere. And he said, well, he could just go in with her because he has a vagina. And I'm like, oh, my God.

[B]

So I think that's totally appropriate.

[A]

They hadn't seen each other in four months.

[C]

This is roasting each other. Just immediately roast each other. So the sarcasm is there, you know, definitely a little off color.

[A]

And the first morning he is back, I happen to be awake. He hasn't seen Julia in four months. Knocks on her door, opens the door is like, hey, good to see you. We got to work on this bathroom. It's so dirty.

[C]

Oh, man. So anyway, there's still an issue. The banter's there, but again, both very authentic. You know, all three have a very authentic, sincere people. They're. You know, they are. Their personalities are kind of right out there, and they're not afraid to tell people what they think. And sometimes it's the right time, sometimes it's not. Like the other morning.

[B]

That's still a problem, even at my age.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's good and bad, but I think. I think it's always clear where you guys stand.

[A]

Here's an example. Riley won't mind me telling this story. He worked for a technology company here in town, briefly made it through the training program, which I guess not everybody does. Was one or two days on the job, and he's gonna. He's informed that he's gonna be let go by his Boss. And so he asked the boss in the termination meeting. So, like, this is a sure thing. There's nothing I can do to change your guy's mind? And the guy was like, nope. He's like, oh, well, I just want you to know I think you're a fucking piece of shit, and I hate you and this place. And like, full on up, one side of the other, grabbed his stuff and just left.

[C]

I feel like he's grown a lot since then.

[A]

I personally, I considered that to be a very mature thing that he did.

[C]

No, and I think back in the.

[A]

Day, I think he said, with all due respect.

[C]

Yeah, he did say, with all due respect. I think back in the day, you'd never work in a small town again. Now things are different.

[A]

They. That particular place, which will remain nameless, has a high churn rate. So I think he just took his parting shot on the way out. It speaks to you, saying they'll let you know what's on their mind.

[C]

For sure. Yeah, all three. And I think they get that again from you guys a lot.

[B]

I don't realize how similar we are until I watch us together in something, and then it's. Whoever I'm with is just. Your son is. You two are exactly alike. Watch your mannerisms, you know, and you never cut each other any slack at all, you know, and you don't put the knife half in. Up the hill there. And I never really realized that. I was talking to Kyle when he was here. I saw him the next morning. We were talking about that, and he was giggling about it.

[C]

Well, you're both willing to kind of lock horns, but then have a conversation about it afterward and move forward, like, actually process what happened. If you have an argument or get into it over something instead of just saying, well, we can never agree. And that's how families split up is. They'll. They'll reach an impasse and just never address it. Neither personal back down.

[B]

You gotta agree to disagree sometimes. That's one thing. I tried to.

[C]

A lot of people can't do that. A lot of men can't do.

[B]

That happened to my family, and I hated that. I mean, they carry a boner around with them for a year about something.

[A]

I think they call that priapism.

[B]

What's it called?

[A]

Priapism.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

Extended direction.

[D]

Reminds me of Javi.

[C]

Yeah, the wean.

[A]

The wean. He's the best.

[C]

He was so excited to see Tyler when he came.

[A]

He almost was doing backflips, apparently.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's impressive.

[C]

Yeah, we've got to get well.

[A]

He's an athlete.

[D]

He is.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You should have Tyler on here sometime. He's hysterical.

[A]

He needs to clear that with his other parent for sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

What else you got, Michael?

[D]

This would be for Andy. What is the one piece of advice your dad always gave you that you always fall back on? Or is there one?

[A]

One piece of advice?

[E]

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[A]

I don't remember you giving me much advice.

[B]

I just laid it out there for you. You know, life is your life is the advice.

[C]

I find that hard to believe because I've heard him give some really good advice to the grandkids, so.

[A]

Yeah, but he skipped his own child. He cares more about. No.

[C]

Successful as you were based just on no parenting.

[A]

We don't have enough time to list the number of mistakes or stupid things that I've done, so.

[C]

Oh, for sure. I don't know, I feel like. I mean, he's coached for so long.

[A]

I'm joking a little bit, obviously. I mean, one of the core principles I still live my life to. I think I probably heard from you, and that's just stand up for what you believe in.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

I mean, that's. That's been from like day one. And honestly, that's probably the. I don't know, like the foundational framework of who I am. And that's in there somewhere. Pretty core to the root.

[C]

Yeah. I don't.

[B]

That's where it starts and where it ends.

[C]

I don't know if you told the story on here of Vaughn laying the guy out in basic training.

[A]

The basic training, I think it was. You mean my baseball coach?

[C]

No, no. Well, that happened too, but there was a guy.

[A]

Oh, that's your story to tell at boot camp.

[C]

Yeah. So it was at boot camp and the guy was just getting. Just lit up.

[B]

Oh, oh, you mean our company commander. Yeah, yeah, that was. We had a Hispanic company commander. And about two thirds of the way through the training, you go to the other side of the base, you get to wear your white cap instead of a baseball cap. A Dixie cup. Yeah, yeah. And we had a young man in our company who his mother and Father and two sisters were killed in a.

[A]

Car accident, like, while he was there.

[B]

Or just before he got there. And the kid was. Why they even. Anyway, make a long story short, our company commander would show up on Sundays and just harass people. And he got on this young kid one day on one Sunday. And, I mean, the kid was. He was so emotional. And I just walked up to this big. I said, why don't you do that with me? He says, outside.

[A]

Well, let's go through some stats here. Let's go through the fight stats. How tall were you? How much did you weigh?

[B]

About the height I am now and probably weighed 195 pounds.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He was a big boy.

[C]

But you were also, what, 18?

[B]

Yeah, barely.

[C]

You say a kid?

[B]

I just turned 18.

[C]

You were a kid, too, but.

[B]

Oh, God, yeah.

[C]

Walked up to this dude, and you said, okay, let's go.

[B]

Yeah. And he says, I'll meet you downstairs. So I went around the big dumpster. I could hear him, and I walked. Right when he came around, I just knocked. I took him down right there. There wasn't. He had nothing left.

[C]

Punched him in the face.

[B]

Yeah. I think I broke his jaw. But I got put in a brig, you know. But thankfully, there were others there that witnessed it. And it's been. Watching. This abuse, it was so bad that they busted him and got us a new company commander just before graduation.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Yeah, it was. I mean, I was scared to death. I was just. But I said, I got one shot at this. Well, I'm not proud of it, but I actually am.

[C]

Well, everybody else was just watching him. Yeah. He said he was getting, like, doused with cold water in front of everybody.

[B]

This kid empty his sea bag into a garbage can, fill it with water and put some suds in it, and make him half the day, just walk in a circle, act like he's washing his clothes. Because there was still essence of. What was that? The preservative they use in clothes. I forget what it was.

[C]

Starch?

[B]

No, no, no. It was. Oh, I forget what it was. But, I mean. And this kid is just. He has. I just. I just. I said, you know, if you're gonna go down, this is a good one to go down. Wilbur. And I. I just tattooed him.

[C]

Stand up for what you believe in.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other one, which was fun, was Andy, his senior year, had a baseball coach who was. Wasn't much of a coach. And he just yelled and screamed at the kids all the time. And I was. I just told. I said, don't. I Said, don't. Don't tolerate that shit. If that happens, you come again? I'm home one day washing out the truck.

[A]

Well, that's because we were at practice and he had us all sat down on the bench talking about how much people suck. And I said something along the lines of, have you ever considered just shutting the fuck up? And he looked at me and said.

[C]

What year were you in school?

[B]

Senior.

[A]

Senior in high school.

[C]

Oh, yeah. I guess it makes a little more sense.

[A]

He was just like. Like, you're never gonna make it as a seal. You'll. You'll never be successful. I was like, yeah, roger that. I'll be back in a bit.

[C]

So you went home and got your dad?

[A]

I just told him what happened. I didn't know what he was gonna.

[B]

Do, so I just said, you know, he shows up, he's got his practice gear on, and I says, let's get the truck. Let's go. And dugout was way down here, and all the players are looking this way.

[A]

The coach made a beeline to try to cut my dad off at the.

[B]

Pass, and they saw me and Andy, and I just. I just told him, why the hog ate the cabbage. I said, you'd love to do that shit to my son. I said, you got two choices here. I can either be your best friend or your worst fucking enemy, and I'm ready to do whatever one you wanted. I mean, the guy was just. It was these kids. They're just freaking kids playing baseball, you know? And I knew his baseball coach in high school had been my baseball coach, and the man was a fantastic person. And I said, you're trying to emulate Coach Dodge. And I said, we all would run through a wall for that guy. I said, do you think you're going to get that type of respect treating these young men this way? What are they learning here? I was. Yeah, I didn't know how that was going to go, but he showed up and I said, let's go. It's on.

[C]

So you told him why the hog ate the cabbage? And then what?

[B]

It just, you know, a couple of assistant coaches come over and just, you know, just. They kind of looked and said, this doesn't look like it's going to go, you know, well. And Pacheco was one of them, Steve. And I didn't want to do something stupid in front of the kids, you know, that was not the point.

[A]

Escalated it appropriately.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's a good way to put it.

[C]

I thought you punched him in the face.

[B]

No, no, no. God, no. No. Oh, no.

[A]

You put your hands on him though.

[B]

Did I? Probably, yeah.

[A]

That's why the assistant coaches came.

[B]

Yeah. Because I, I, I, I get my hands on you and you ain't getting away. Because I've worked my whole life with my hands on my arms.

[C]

Well, from rugby too, I'm sure. That was kind of prime mustache Vaughan, I bet.

[B]

Oh yeah. Stick your face right in theirs and say, here it is, here's your target.

[C]

Let's do it.

[A]

I don't even know what that means. What else do you have?

[D]

This is for Andy and Leah. Maybe more Leah, but what's the criteria for earning a BJJ black belt? Should you have to do competitions to earn a black belt?

[A]

100%.

[B]

Leah.

[C]

Oh, the criteria for getting a BJJ black belt. It seems like it's really shifting lately, huh? There's some people who've done it pretty quickly with private lessons, but mine was pretty quick. I think in some ways a little too quick. But they, they wanted to give me the opportunity to compete as an adult black belt because you only have a few years to kind of hang at that level. So a little quick. But you know, I did well against new black belts. And of course there's the girls that were career that would just thrash me. But I mean, that's probably still the case, but I had the opportunity, so it was a little quick for me. It's so subjective, but I think in any of the belts it's supposed to be playing against someone who's your own gender, weight and age. Can you technically beat that person using black belt level jiu jitsu? What is black belt level jiu jitsu? To me it's, you are able to, you have an A game, a very defined A game and you have a good base. So you have counters to the counters that are structured around that a game. But I think not being too one dimensional, when you see a good black belt and their A game, their normal stuff isn't working. They shift and they'll do something completely different or something maybe you've never seen them do before. So they can adapt to what is put in front of them, what is given to them by their opponent. I think at brown belt you're more defining that A game and then I think you get that depth and strategy a little more. At black belt, I don't think there's a huge difference between a brown belt and a black belt. At least in our organization you don't have to compete. And we have some really good black Belts that haven't competed, but they roll regularly and so they're kind of getting put, pushed inside their own gym. Going to seminars can help that you'll get to watch. We have two camps a year through Straight Blast Gym. So you'll. I'll have students and I'll be like, hey, I want you to roll with that person. I want you to roll with that person. I'll kind of pick out some people for them so I can see when they're in a much bigger room with people who are not trying to win or trying to hurt them, but you know, trying to have a good match that are their own size, strength, gender. And in those bigger pools of people you might find that perfect opponent, you know, and maybe that's not in their own gem. So it can be a little more difficult to tell how their Jiu jitsu looks. Like if a person's pret particularly small, you know, they might be getting kind of smothered, but they might have very good Jiu jitsu. I mean they just gave a brown belt to a girl in Missoula that's probably 110 pounds and in her 50s. And she's really good.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

She's really good. She is, she's quick, she's technical, she doesn't accept grip, she doesn't like. And she's very athletic, you know, does, does a lot of kind of functional movement and yoga stuff and she, she definitely earned it, but hard to tell in a general open mat, you know. So you gotta kinda find some smaller partners for her. And she would do our local tournaments, our kind of smoker tournaments against our other gyms, which was good, it was a good way Jack. She always seeks out the smaller partners when she had opportunity. So do you have to compete? No. Is it easier to tell? Absolutely. And now they have all the masters divisions now. So you can, all of our, all of the 40 year old try hards can keep going and like push themselves. It's taken so seriously now. The level is so high and they have so many more opportunities for masters athletes to compete. And I told this story, I don't think on here, but the last Masters worlds I went to, so Jiu Jitsu con, there were 20,000 people watching, 12,000 competitors. And there was an adult competition. So the current world champions and I was over there helping coach a girl that's at that level. One of our Canadian athletes is a current adult competitor. There was no one over there watching. It was just kind of the coaches and athletes. Then you went over and at the same time, the second day where the blue, blue and purple belt masters, so 40 years old is separated by every £10 and every five years of age. So lots of masters champions, lots of divisions. It was packed. I mean you get near the rings, everyone's family, their gym, their kids, their wives, I mean husbands, everybody was there watching them. You could not get a podium picture. It was like 30 people deep.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

People are so excited. So it's just that you build more of a network as you get older and you know those younger athletes, they probably traveled from further. Their whole team didn't come necessarily. So it was on flow grappling and people are watching and those were really high level matches. I mean world champions and you know, there's just kind of their coach and a couple people taking pictures of them over there and everybody's like watching these blue and purple belt 40 year old matches like. Yeah, just screaming. I mean it was, it's a cool evolution of the sport. It was, it was really, it's a really fun atmosphere. So can you continue to compete as an older person? Yes, you can. And it is kind of hard on your body, but it's a lot of fun. And you're going at someone who's your age, your weight, your gender. So there's no excuses if you don't do well. And I got lit up that last time, but it just. You okay, what can I do? What can I do better? You know, what can I work on? And so do you need to compete? No. Does it help your coach tell? Yeah, it's real easy. You know, if you win a master's division at your belt now that's a pretty good indication you're ready for the next belt.

[A]

Not if you're Derek.

[C]

Not if you're a Dan Hart's gym. Then you better win it like three times. Yeah.

[A]

Sequentially. Lose any one time during that clock reset.

[C]

No. Dan's, he's, he is getting his last stripe to be able to rank second stripe. Second his last stripe? Well, no, his last stripe. But his, his stripes to be able to give out black belt. So there's a reason. There's a reason there. Yeah. All right.

[D]

Michael, when you go kind of approaching.

[A]

The end, you don't get to decide that you showed up late.

[D]

Well, the commenters decided that by not commenting. Very many questions, unfortunately. Okay, so, but this is kind of.

[A]

Like one more is about an hour anyway, so it's pretty.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Taliyah, which of these two men are sane?

[C]

Which are sane? In some ways, both very sane, but they're. They're. I guess, where then to push things. It's kind of the best possible way. They both lived really full lives, are great fathers, and have been a great example to their children, and it's because they continue to push themselves and improve, and they are willing to question their decisions and learn from them. Both of them have gone to counselors, so they're very emotionally intelligent. For guys who are in the fields they've been in, they haven't shut that part of themselves off, which is really rare. And I think Andy seeing his dad like that is one of the reasons that he's so well adjusted and has handled.

[B]

He's well adjusted.

[C]

He's pretty well adjusted considering all of the things he's been through. I mean, you too?

[A]

I mean, I'm the most normal person that I know.

[B]

Well, yeah, well, let's don't go that way.

[C]

You know, Andy's seen a lot of his friends have that trauma just crush them when they go home. And both of them have adjusted and moved forward with their lives in really positive, healthy ways and reinvented themselves, found whole new careers and, you know, just continue to be really good at those things, but also, you know, be there for their families.

[B]

Well, I was real lucky. I had such an incredibly strong woman.

[A]

So before you go on, I want to make sure that you're. You go down this path, because one of the questions was, because we've alluded to it a little bit, that mom basically gave you an ultimatum.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What led up to that? And what exactly did she say to you?

[B]

I was. I was just struggling with a lot of stuff.

[A]

How would it express itself?

[B]

Way too much alcohol, and I, you know. God, how did that happen?

[C]

Did you get angry? Were you an angry person?

[B]

No.

[C]

When you came back?

[B]

No. No, I was.

[A]

Excuse me, Mr. Tighty Whities in the backyard screaming after putting a hole in the door.

[B]

Yeah, well, I mean, that's what happened. I stuck my fist through the front door.

[A]

But that was already. That is one of the few things I remember from when we lived in Missoula.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't remember seeing the door, but I remember it happened. I remember you in the backyard in your tighty whities, yelling in the snow.

[C]

No.

[A]

So we had already moved to Montana.

[C]

Not ideal.

[A]

Well, but didn't mom give you the ultimatum before moving up to Missoula?

[B]

No. And she just said, you know, you've got to go get help, or I'm gonna take the kids. And I just Stopped me in my tracks. And she had the address for the vet center, and she went through it with me. You know, it was. It was.

[A]

Is that where you were that day? She sliced her hand, probably. And I hopped on the bike to ride over to the vet. You ended up taking her to the hospital, get stitched up? Yeah. Yeah, I had a rescue. It was my first rescue mission. I was on a bike.

[C]

Where did you. What. Who did you rescue?

[A]

This was before cell phones. So my mom was cutting something with.

[B]

A knife in the kitchen.

[A]

Completely sliced the palm of her hand. She's like, you need to go get your dad. I was like, cape is on, Batman mask.

[C]

You just rub your legs.

[B]

But it exposed me.

[A]

Just crushing through downtown Missoula.

[C]

Not safe. Yeah.

[B]

You know, it exposed me to something that I couldn't have done by myself. And. And she went through it with me in her own way because it was a very private thing, but it's. They had a private showing of Platoon when Platoon came out, and it was for the vets and their wives, the wives that wanted to come. And mom went with me, and. And we went home, and she said, that was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. You guys all acted and reacted at the same time in the same way. She said it was almost like it was choreographed, so.

[A]

Good catch, Michael.

[B]

I had come home, and I was sitting in the front room, and I was just. Lights were out, and I was. She come over and sit down next to me, and she says, are you okay? And I just told her, I said, I thought I was the only one that felt that way. You know, all vets, so many of us, you know, we pack everything inside and don't share, because men don't do that. At least that's the way I was raised. You know, you don't show vulnerability. Don't show your emotions. And that was such a turning point for me, realizing I wasn't the only one that felt that way. And I'd have never got there without her. And when I had these personal problems this year, I knew where to go. And I did it not only for myself. I did it for my family to see again. Just kind of an affirmation that. That, you know, we could still do this. You know, I mean, that wasn't what I was. It was part and parcel of the whole exercise, because so many guys struggle without taking the time to really look at yourself.

[C]

You know, I imagine the peer support, in addition to the counselors, you guys.

[B]

Have all been great. I wouldn't have got through what family?

[C]

But, I mean, other veterans in those groups.

[B]

Oh, that was. Well, you know what was. Because from that big group, they put us in groups of five, six, or seven or eight people, and that was our group. And we had a veteran in our group in Missoula that had a home right on a large creek. And we had two Native Americans in our group and Blackfoot Indians. And they constructed a authentic sweat lodge, took us through the ceremony. And whenever we get a phone call, somebody's in distress, we'd all go there, heat the rocks. The rocks are all. Everything's done on a clockwise manner, like the sun, the seasons. And you go in there, I mean, and it's pitch black, and you're just.

[A]

What are you wearing?

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

Powerfully gay.

[B]

Especially in the dark.

[C]

Oh, my God, this is so cool.

[A]

Just randomly grab.

[C]

Gotta make it weird.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Anyway.

[B]

But it Add a little humor to it. One of the guys in our group was a medicine. One of the few guys. He was bent over a guy and a grenade went off. All right.

[A]

The story got better.

[B]

What's the matter?

[A]

He started with, he was bent over a guy. I was curious where this is.

[B]

You know, he was. And a grenade and took the back of his head off. Brain and everything. And, I mean, he got. He. They brought his parents over to Japan. They just. But he survived. I mean, he had tunnel vision, had to write stuff down. He couldn't remember, but he was a great guy. We're sitting in there, and he's sitting.

[C]

Next to me, and he going, that particular man that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And he says, my plate's getting hot. And I'm going, what the fuck you mean your plate? Well, it was the plate they put in for the back of his.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

You know, I'm going, what the hell? You know, I thought I had some problems in the chest, but, you know, we got him outside and he was fine. We had a guy in our group. He. I only got bits and pieces of the story, but from what I could gather, he was in two units that were both completely wiped out. He was the only survivor in both of them. And the homes in Montana, especially in the neighborhood we lived with the older ones, where they had a basement, 12 inch solid blocks, and he had a rubber mallet down there that he had almost beat all the way through that block wall. I mean, a small area. I mean, he didn't make it that he had such. You know, just some of that stuff. But it was. It was a great experience. I know the. The vet center here is Great there. Yeah, it's. It's quite a thing. But have. But the family support of all that stuff is so important, you know, it's just. It is what it is, but it's good for the veterans. I mean, and the reason they created the vet center is the veterans from my era, we had no trust in the government at all. So they created the vet centers, created themselves. They got funding from the va, but there was no government oversight or anything. So you could go in there and you felt safe. Yeah, I mean, that's how they. That's how it start. Whether it's still that way, I don't know, but it's. Yeah, it's. You know, it's. You never do any of these things by yourself. There's always a family member or a group, you know, And I was very lucky to have Andy's mom at that time in my life, because I was playing rugby again, you know, almost 40 years old, and, you know, I was. Shit, I was 20 years older than the guys I was playing with and shit. I can run as hard and play just as hard as these guys, you know? Yeah. Well, mom, put the throttle that sucker real quick. Thank God.

[A]

Probably for the best.

[B]

Oh, without a doubt. Yeah.

[A]

Two questions left, one for both of you. One of the commenters would like for you to. They were curious again. What's that medication that Casey prescribed for you?

[B]

Testosterone. There you go. I'm gonna tell you something. I anticipated that.

[A]

Good.

[B]

So I'm practicing all day, going test, test, test.

[A]

Wasn't my question. It was theirs.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, it's. Yeah. What a. Yeah, it's. It's pretty. That whole process, you know, studying what Casey's doing for both men and women's a pretty amazing. It's a great thing, especially for the women, you know, with their. I mean, their whole body is such an amazing, you know, thing, and just the changes it goes through and being able to balance that out to a level that gives. And for the guys, getting your energy back, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Her.

[C]

Her business is blowing up. His women are tired, going through midlife unsupported.

[A]

Yeah, they should be.

[B]

Yeah, they should be. Without a doubt.

[C]

You think?

[B]

It's not easy on us guys. They're trying to navigate that as well.

[C]

It's a bigger shift. And I would say my mother's generation, they just handled. Just never talked about it. Just got real angry and just were constantly uncomfortable for about 10 years, and that was just normal.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Maybe there were. I mean, maybe there weren't many options, too.

[B]

Well, it's been interesting how it. It went over to the guys, you know, the firemen were showing up, going like, I don't know what you're doing with her, but I, you know, what do you got for us? Yeah, you know, and, you know, you get your little juju and. Yeah.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

Yeah, well, it's just, you know, Casey asked me that. I'm not sure with you because, you.

[A]

Know, please understand, this is going on the Internet.

[B]

Well, it's. You know, when you're a younger man, you. You would wake up with some morning wood, you know, and she. She asked me how. She said, well, where. Where are you at now? I said, well, your daughter asked you this? Yeah. And I said, well, it's not really morning wood, but I'll say at least it's kindling. You know, I got something to work with anyway. You know, I think it's working pretty good, you know, great.

[C]

Okay, moving on. Did you have a question for me?

[A]

Yes. What are your guys, broad goals for 2026? I know it's a little bit of a shotgun, but I won't probably have you both on before the new year, which is five episodes away. So I'm just curious. You guys got anything on the 2026 calendar?

[C]

Yeah, just.

[A]

What's it called? A dream board.

[C]

Vision board. Yeah.

[B]

What's a vision board?

[C]

It's. You can kind of put a bunch of images or words on a board that represent your goals.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Physical representation of your goals.

[B]

Okay, so you see them? Yeah, yeah. What do you got on yours?

[C]

I'm rehabbing a shoulder injury. So working through that, we got some stem cells from Ways to. Well, so I'm hoping. Dreaming that maybe it'll help me avoid some surgery. So just rehabbing. I would like to continue to compete at the master's level. I want to revamp our children's Jiu Jitsu curriculum. Kind of help my coach do that. I think it's time for a refresh. I've been coaching for a while, and I think I have a better understanding of what each age group needs, which is a little different.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Continue to grow the women's community here and at all the gyms that I encounter. So that's kind of the Jiu Jitsu stuff. Personally, professionally, I'm learning to do some graphic design. My mom's an artist. I grew up making art. And so kind of getting back into that, both making physical art, painting, drawing, making prints, and then digitizing. Now you can digitize it and repeat it and make it into patterns. Make it into, you know. Yeah. Things that are much more transferable and shareable. It's very cool. It's very different. I mean my mom used to have to put her stuff in. You had to go to an art show, you know, if you wanted people to see your art. And it's very different now. It's cool. So kind of learning a new skill that way and going back to some things that I used to do. I guess so those are, those are kind of, kind of the big things working. I want to get out snowboarding with, with you. Just spend time with family and.

[B]

Watch the shoulder.

[C]

Watch the shoulder? Yeah, the shoulders. I'm not worried about it for snowboarding so much, but you have to be careful in jiu jitsu.

[A]

What do you got dad for 2026?

[B]

Well, I got get my shoulder redone.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

First of the year I'm going to start applying for part time jobs. I desperately need to get myself involved in a community. Just being out around people.

[A]

Do you really want a part time job? Because I feel you like I don't know.

[B]

Any way I'm going to find out.

[A]

Two hour exercise on your resume where you kind of landed at. Maybe a part time job isn't what you want.

[C]

I say community guarded and part time rugby coach.

[B]

I don't know, I'm.

[A]

Here's my.

[B]

A bunch of different things.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Here's you talking with Lee about your resume. Leah would say, what days do you want to work? Thank you for turning your phone off for the episode by the way. Lee would say to you, what days do you want to work? And you're like, I don't really know. But you know, maybe an hour or two when I feel like it. What job would you like to have? Well, I'd like to be in the lumber section and only the lumber section, which the job you just described. Again, I'm just saying that's the section. Maybe you can sit there and stroke the two by four for all you.

[B]

Want, but the man you gotta see, he's down there in the corner with the lumber.

[C]

I don't know if that guy exists anymore. Maybe he does.

[A]

Two hours Leah was furiously typing away in your resume. Going back to professional experience, back to teaching in Australia. And before that it was a cool.

[C]

Trip down memory lane.

[A]

But then at the end of memory lane, the realization was, yeah, I don't really want a job.

[C]

Well, not yet. Not before the first of the year, that's for sure.

[B]

It's going to be so something.

[A]

Let's.

[B]

Let's paraphrase well, you're working in December. Yeah. You got your part of your idea right here. You know, I'll be saying it, which I. Look, that's exhausting. But it's, It's a volunteer position. It is. I enjoy the kids so much that, you know, it's just. And I. I'm gonna. I'm going to attempt to do some work on myself. You know, I want to be. I. I just. I just want it. There's things I want to accomplish myself personally, you know? You know, be. I'm not sure what it is, but I know I gotta. I gotta re home my game a little bit better. I wanna. I don't want it to sound crazy, but I want to get. Be a better person, you know, And I'm not sure how to put that there, but it's just, you know, this last year was a real. A real nutcratcher and nut crutcher cruncher, you know, and it's, it's, it's. It's really given me fuel to look at myself. And I'm not disappointed in myself. I just think I can in many ways do things better.

[A]

You know, I think we all can.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm willing to put the effort in, you know, because I personally, you know, especially as I watch my grandchildren grow and I know they watch me, you know, it just. It's been so special one, having Julia come over and spend time with me. And also, even though it's a pain in the ass, you know, our Uber service for our oldest grandbaby, you know, is.

[C]

What about watching the weaned you secretly really love?

[B]

Oh, yeah, he's a trip, you know, I mean, I take my hat off every time he runs by with that tight ball sack. I'm going, that is impressive. You know, I just take my hat off. Well done. He is such a freaking character, you know, and it's fun watching him adjust to me because, you know, he comes to my house, I don't bring the toys out. I would let him destroy one toy of Buster every day. There would be shit all over the house. We vacuum it up. And he knew that was enough. But figuring out how to make a lap and then come run and jump in my lap, you know? Then he figured out I'm gonna break my nose if I keep hitting him in the tummy. So he'd hit the crease between me and the chair, pull him out because he's like a dart. And then he just lay there.

[E]

Go.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You know? Yeah. But watching him run, Jesus. You know he doesn't run, he glides. He leaps. You know, and it's. I've never seen a dog that can literally be urinating and he can turn his whole self around and watch it. Literally. Watch me. I just. Oh, my God. He is. The flexibility in this guy is. And he's long.

[A]

I've watched him pee on his own face.

[C]

I have, too.

[B]

I wasn't gonna go quite that far, but I thought you. But I.

[A]

Personal golden showers.

[C]

No, too close.

[B]

Oh, but he. He's a specimen. There's no doubt about it.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

He loves Michael time too.

[A]

Oh, yes, he does. He's looking forward to being watched while we're in Costa Rica. What are we out on the time? Michael?

[D]

1:10.

[A]

Perfect. Get you guys work.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Herobjj.com February.

[C]

Yeah, surfing and Jiu Jitsu. And again, the money, great deal of it goes right back to the community, specifically children, local children. So it's a. It's a very cool way to give back. And it's a beautiful area. It's a lot of fun.

[B]

Yeah, you found a real nice place. It's obvious you guys really enjoy that and look forward to it and it's good for you, you know, just to get out of the wet and the cold and. Yeah, it's a good reset and you get. You got your surfing that you're interested in and you're in your Jiu Jitsu.

[C]

We get to know the local people that, that train at the gym too. They're awesome training partners. They are there for so many high level instructors that come through. So the level at the gym is very high. It's a lot of fun to train with them.

[B]

There's no doubt it's a real special thing. You know, Tyler always liked to show up and get drunk the first day and then said he'll never drink again and.

[C]

Pretty classic. Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes he speaks with an Italian accent.

[C]

Just that one night. Yeah.

[A]

Until next time.

[B]

Thank you.