Government Overreach, Lying About Your Service, and Rowing to Hawaii | Greg Anderson | Ep. 437

Summary

Cleared Hot Podcast Ep. 437: Government Overreach, Lying About Your Service, and Rowing to Hawaii | Greg Anderson

Date: March 16, 2026
Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Greg Anderson

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Andy Stumpf welcomes back Greg Anderson, former law enforcement officer, Special Operations veteran, jiu-jitsu black belt, and author. The conversation spans Greg’s upcoming "Row West" expedition to Hawaii, the challenges of entrepreneurship, government overreach, jiu-jitsu and military culture, financial literacy, the toxicity of embellishing service, and broader reflections on pride, resilience, and American society.

Lighthearted and irreverent, but also philosophical and sometimes dark, the discussion is charged with the self-deprecating humor and real-talk that both hosts are known for. They share hard-earned lessons from military, law enforcement, and entrepreneurial life, explore the importance of authenticity, personal responsibility, and the search for both individual and collective meaning in turbulent times.

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Major Discussion Points & Notable Segments

1. Rowing to Hawaii: "Row West" Expedition (00:52–13:14, 61:03–64:26)

• The Boat and the Team: Greg describes his four-man crew and specially-designed, hurricane-rated ocean rowing vessel ("Row West") intended for Hawaii.
• Training Mishaps: Entertaining discussion on their first training run—without a rudder—resulting in an aimless GPS track resembling a rune. After adding the rudder, the boat felt “like an ice skateboard” (04:48).
• Physical and Mental Challenge: Rowing in shifts, with two crew members rowing at all times, for up to 70 days.
  • “Most teams will do a two or three-hour shift, so it’s three on, three off, for 55 to 70-ish days,” – Greg (11:06)
• Risk vs Adventure: Both reflect on risk management, comparing it to wingsuit flying and mountaineering. Greg admits he seeks out difficult, uncomfortable tasks.
• Safety and Technology: Use of Starlink and safety equipment (life jackets, EPIRBs, multiple oars, VHF radio, and AIS for collision avoidance).

2. The Cost and Pain of Entrepreneurship & Government Overreach (41:33–61:06, 85:39–99:31)

• Permitting and Regulations: Greg details his multi-year battle with local authorities over his jiu-jitsu academy’s zoning and growth, describing it as “extortion.”
  • “My parking lot to shrubbery ratio...” (87:28)
  • Required to spend $20,000 on shrubs: “Are you out of your mind, bro?” – Greg (88:13)
• Wetland “Protection” Fees: Forced to buy wetland credits to offset the gym’s footprint.
  • “That’s literally called extortion.” – Greg (91:59)
• Frustration with Bureaucracy: Both share stories about asinine building requirements and arbitrary interpretations, noting the irony of being stymied by the same government they served.
• Resilience through Adversity: Parallels between struggling as entrepreneurs and in the military, touching on concepts of standing one’s ground, adaptation, and (sometimes) the desire to just say “fuck you” to authority (98:55).

3. Jiu-Jitsu, Culture, and Humility (14:33–40:09, 113:44–149:07)

• Training Philosophies: The evolution of jiu-jitsu from chasing “being the best” to finding play, growth, and humility. Both discuss how letting go of ego and embracing creativity has improved their practice.
  • “The wear and tear on my body is less and I enjoy it more.” – Andy (15:38)
• Gym Culture: Importance of cultivating mutual respect, especially for women and newer practitioners. Discussion on the toxic effects of machismo and unchecked ego.
  • “Check in with your ego. Losing sucks and winning feels good...if you find yourself on the losing end, that’s when you need to check in with yourself...” – Greg (36:00)
• Role of Humility and Failure: The necessity of losing (sometimes thousands of times) on the path to black belt.
  • “How many times do you get submitted before you get your black belt?...high teens of the thousands.” – Andy (37:39)
• Policing & Jiu-Jitsu: The overlooked need for law enforcement officers to train in effective control techniques for safety and professionalism.
  • “If your job is to arrest and detain people, that’s jiu-jitsu.” – Greg (114:47)
• Ego, Community, and Growth: The destructive nature of ego in both training and professional fields, with personal stories of gym bullies, lying, and authentic self-assessment.

4. Government, Society, and the American Psyche (51:00–83:47)

• Distrust in Government: Alarm at government overreach, increasing taxation, and growing dysfunction at both local and federal levels.
  • “There’s a part of me that believes when I come back (from the row), the country is...going to move into another phase of instability.” – Greg (51:29)
• Class, Wealth, and the “Elites”: Thoughtful discussion about whether a shadowy “elite” class is orchestrating the decay, or if systemic incompetence is the root. Both agree a wider gap between haves and have-nots exists, but debate how coordinated it is.
  • “Powerful people want more than anything to stay in power.” – Andy (57:00)
• Division and Instability: Anxiety about the potential for unrest, anarchy (“nine meals from anarchy”), and civil war, but a hope for a “withdrawal from the system” revolution instead of violence.
  • “I don’t want to fight other Americans, man. That’s what’s lost in all this civil war talk.” – Andy (106:01)
• Public Education: Is school system failure by design or by incompetence? Emphasis on lost focus on personal finance and life skills.
• Choosing Sides: Disconnection from team-based political loyalties and the freeing effect of thinking independently.
  • “Stepping off of a team actually feels pretty good.” – Greg (83:09)

5. Authenticity, Lying about Service, and Veteran Culture (133:08–139:55)

• Veteran Storytelling & Embellishment: Open discussion about the phenomenon of veterans lying or exaggerating military accomplishments, e.g., “confirmed kills.”
  • “An embellishment is just a nice way of saying lie.” – Greg (134:17)
• Pride & Self-Image: Being authentic about one’s story, mistakes, and failures as a path to self-respect and societal contribution.
  • “If you’re lying...it tells me you’re not proud of your service.” – Greg (135:27)
• Truth on the Mats: Jiu-jitsu’s role as a “truth serum”—the mats don’t lie, even if people off them can.

6. Wealth, Financial Literacy, and Building a Legacy (67:56–79:33)

• Wealth as an “Amplifier”: The life-changing power of wealth—good or bad—dependent on one’s character.
  • “If you’re a good person, money gives you the ability to do more good.” – Andy quoting John Welborne (75:01)
• Financial Literacy: Lack of school instruction in financial skills and taxes; importance of learning though alternative avenues.
• Aspiration for Generational Stability: Both discuss the desire to provide financial security for their children and the shame often associated with building and handing down wealth.

7. Writing & Publishing: Courage Through Adversity (110:06–132:39)

• Publishing Journey: Greg shares the impetus and process for writing his new book, "Courage Through Adversity."
  • Encouraged by Mike Glover: “Men that have lived powerful lives and done cool things, we are obligated to share them with the next generation.” (110:58)
• Authenticity in Memoir: Committing to telling both the highlights and the hard times—failures, dark moments, the reality of military operations (“my weapon never even came off safe”).
• Self-Publishing vs Traditional Publishing: Process and pros/cons of self-publishing (bigger royalties, instant Amazon print-on-demand, but more author accountability for marketing).
• Purpose: The book aims to serve as a blueprint for living with courage, overcoming hardship, and reclaiming individual pride.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Humility and Growth:
  “I used to let go of whatever...I just don’t care. The wear and tear on my body is less and I enjoy it more.”
  – Andy (15:38)

• On Lying About Service:
  “An embellishment is just a nice way of saying lie.”
  – Greg (134:17)

• On Government Overreach:
  “That’s literally called extortion...it’s mob tactics.”
  – Greg (91:59, 95:13)

• On Learning from Struggle:
  “Life is just about out-struggling.”
  – Andy (130:28)

• On Personal Responsibility:
  “Every problem in your life, at the foundation of it, is your fault. And you need to go look in the mirror..."
  – Greg (156:18)

• On Wealth as Character Amplifier:
  “If you’re a good person, money gives you the ability to do more good. But if you’re a douchebag, it gives you the ability to do more bad.”
  – Andy quoting John Welborne (75:01)

• On Writing the Book:
  “The goal of this book is for people to be proud of who they are.”
  – Greg (127:26)

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Quick Reference Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |-----------------------------------------------|--------------------------| | Opening & Row West Expedition | 00:52 – 13:14, 61:03–64:26| | Government Overreach & Zoning Nightmares | 41:33–61:06, 85:39–99:31| | Jiu-Jitsu Philosophy & Training | 14:33–40:09, 113:44–149:07| | Government, Society & Civil Unrest | 51:00–83:47 | | Financial Literacy & Wealth Building | 67:56–79:33 | | Publishing & Book Process | 110:06–132:39 | | Lying About Service/Veteran Culture |133:08–139:55 | | Fear, Accountability & Adventure | 155:25–159:43 | | Wrap-up, Book Plugs & Closing Remarks | 166:17–174:13 |

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Key Takeaways

• Adventure is a Path to Growth: Both hosts encourage stepping outside your comfort zone—whether physically, emotionally, or professionally—to build resilience and meaning.
• Personal Accountability Trumps Victimhood: Facing your own role in life’s challenges is the key to empowerment and future progress.
• Authenticity is the Antidote to Ego and Toxic Culture: Whether in the military, law enforcement, athletics, or life, being honest—about failure, about success, about struggle—protects your integrity and helps others.
• Government Overreach is Real, But So is Your Agency: The red tape and hypocrisy of bureaucracies are infuriating but can be confronted with persistence, composure, and in some cases, strategic use of your platform or collective action.
• Don’t Let Society (or Yourself) Steal Your Pride: Embrace progress over perfection, celebrate incremental wins, and resist narratives of defeatism—individually and as a nation.
• The Journey is as Important as the Destination: In training, business, parenthood, or rowing the Pacific, embracing the process leads to both growth and joy.

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How to Support Greg & the Row West Expedition

• Follow on Instagram: @rowwestpacific
• Book: Courage Through Adversity on Amazon
• Merchandise: Row West T-shirts and gear (available soon via their Instagram)

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This summary preserves the robust, humorous, and candid tone of the conversation. All timestamps reference the audio file’s time codes for detailed reference.

Transcript

[A]

Okay, got the red smoke.

[B]

Sun run north or south? West of the smoke.

[A]

West of the smoke. Okay, copy.

[B]

West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now. Come on with it.

[A]

Give it to me.

[B]

I mean, it cleared hot.

[A]

Copy, cleared hot. I brought some good stuff about crystals, but we'll wait till we're rolling.

[B]

We're already rolling.

[A]

Oh, we're already rolling.

[B]

Hold on. What do you mean you brought some good stuff about crystals?

[A]

Because every time we bring up crystals, you're like, oh, they're woo, woo, they're. They're sticky. Hold on, hold on.

[B]

I get a 10 minute break to get onto the Internet to crush your information because you are trying to ambush me with fake Google. I at least get a laptop in front of me to have a dissenting opinion, bro.

[A]

I mean, I'm on your show. However you need to pause it, however you need to break it up.

[B]

Go ahead and show me the survey you made up to support your opinion.

[A]

Modern technology that relies on crystals.

[B]

Yeah, but that's different.

[A]

How's it different?

[B]

Because it allows electricity to pass through it.

[A]

Of course it does.

[B]

You have crystals because you think they are harmonious with the universe and will make plants grow.

[A]

Didn't you say that your plants are growing better from the crystal I gave you?

[B]

I am contractually obligated to say that my wife enjoyed your crystal.

[A]

No. So you got correct quartz crystals and watches. And watches. And GPSs and radios. And hard drives.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So can we agree that quartz somehow conducts electricity. Electricity. And can hold memory?

[B]

Oh, I don't know enough about any of those things to say whether or not it's required to hold memory.

[A]

Well, I can't either, but I can

[B]

tell you they're in hard drives, but I don't think they're the portion of the hard drive that is storing anything. I think there it's like a transistor.

[A]

That's silic, which is also a crystal.

[B]

No, it's not.

[A]

And it's used in computer chips, processors, and for memory.

[B]

Michael, God damn it, I need your services.

[A]

So silicon is a crystalline solid.

[B]

Nobody knows what that means.

[A]

Specifically formula cubic lattice.

[B]

Does quartz have a memory? God, I cannot believe I'm asking you to put that into a Google or whatever search.

[A]

Ask if silicon.

[B]

What do you mean by memory?

[A]

I guess we don't know.

[B]

Is it a mythical magical rock? No.

[A]

Michael says no, we can move on.

[B]

I'm not saying it doesn't help with stuff. I don't know if it's magical in the way. Let me ask you this. Are you bringing a crystal on your rowboat? Which I hope sinks.

[A]

It can't sink. It's neutrally buoyant.

[B]

You're gonna tell me I can't sink that thing?

[A]

Well, it depends.

[B]

When you're done, I get 20 minutes with that thing, and I bet you I can sink it.

[A]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna text Joe Kent and make sure his boy Hegseth doesn't sink us out there with a tomahawk. But other than that.

[B]

That would be the way.

[A]

Other than that. No, they're neutrally buoyant. You can break them in half, and they'll float.

[B]

But are you taking a crystal?

[A]

I haven't thought about it.

[B]

Are you gonna paint the inside with runes?

[A]

No, I'm not gonna do any of that stuff.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The boat doesn't need any of that.

[B]

What is the boat's name?

[A]

We haven't landed on the journey. Is called Row West. That's the expedition. As far as the specific boat name goes, we don't have one yet.

[B]

Have you considered, like, Balls Deep?

[A]

I don't think that's going to help get eyes on the expedition.

[B]

It will get eyes. Is it the eyes you want?

[A]

I'm not sure.

[B]

They do say there's no press. That's really bad press.

[A]

All right, we'll go for it then.

[B]

I would. I would push that past your teammates.

[A]

Yeah, they're probably gonna. They're probably not gonna go for that. So here's a crazy story about naming the boat, and I don't even know how to say this because it's a Hawaiian name, but we took it out on Lake Stevens for the first time last week.

[B]

Yeah. Without a rudder.

[A]

Without a rudder.

[B]

Yeah. Your GPS track looked, to be honest, like a rune.

[A]

We put that GPS track into chat GPT. Yeah. And said, what does this say? Because it looks like writing. And it said, that's a Hawaiian saying. It's like hoka oka lava or something. O means a journey of navigation.

[B]

Did you put it in a second time to see if it spit out a different well.

[A]

Chat GTB lies to you constantly, so who knows what it would say? My wife actually said that. I said, you're trying to ruin a good moment right now.

[B]

Yeah. You got to throw it in, like, four times and then average what it says.

[A]

No, dude, it'd be like Hawaiian barbecue pool. Yeah, but, bro, you see the difference? When we put the rudder on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It felt like a fucking ice skateboard.

[B]

It's almost as if. And, I don't know a lot I know.

[A]

You're this pilot guy, right?

[B]

No, I'm just canoe. I don't know a lot about nautical stuff, but I feel like a rudder is important.

[A]

It's very important.

[B]

Why did you guys not put the rudder on?

[A]

Because you have to go under the boat in the water to put the rudder on because it's like four feet long. So if you trailer it with the rudder on, it's this far off the ground, and you go over a speed bump, you're gonna have a problem. So it comes with the rudder disassembled,

[B]

and so nobody wanted to get in the water.

[A]

And then we're just. We're on a lake, right. So we're like, whatever. It's probably not a big deal. And it wasn't a big deal. Like, there was no safety concern.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We couldn't steer that boat to save our lives. And the whole crew, no one said anything at the time because they're like, oh. But when we got back or the next day when we put the rudder in and then we did the second loop around the lake, everyone was like, oh, okay. That I'm not as worried now.

[B]

So there will always be two people awake rowing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, break this down for me. What do you guys do? The Row west is what you're calling

[A]

a Row west expedition. We bought a boat that's called Here, I'll show it. I mean, I figured Michael would have one pulled up by now.

[B]

Seriously, Michael?

[A]

To be able to show you what's

[B]

up with it, Just put into Google Boat Greg Anderson. What's going to come up is a fucking fishing boat that I hope is either sunk or been sold.

[A]

But.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah. So that's the boat right there.

[B]

I've seen the base.

[A]

It's like 23ft long. It has a cabin on each end. And so we have four.

[B]

Airdrop that to Michael, he'll pull it up, and then we can take a look at it.

[A]

We have four guys that are going on the team.

[B]

It's four guys, but two are rowing at all times.

[A]

Two are rowing at all times.

[B]

I mean, I guess you could, what, maybe have one if there was some whatever exigent circumstances that required the other three to do something.

[A]

No, even, even if there's like. I mean, the boat's hurricane rated to roll, right? So like if the kids have seat belts. No, but we have. Yeah, we have to figure all that out. You are. When you're on the outside, you're strapped into a climbing harness the whole time.

[B]

Which. That makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Because if you go overboard, that would be a journey of.

[A]

Then the journey's over.

[B]

Yeah, Well, a couple hours later it would be.

[A]

All right, how do I airdrop it to Michael Andy's Mac? Oh, airdrop code required.

[B]

788-352.

[A]

788-3-5-352. There we go.

[B]

Yes. Where did you get. I mean, why. Obviously enough people do this that this type of vessel exists. Did you just get this from somebody who had already done an exhibition?

[A]

So I watched these guys row a similar boat from New York to London last summer, and it took them 55 days. And they had a Starlink mini and so they were like documenting the journey. It was fascinating. Dude. So I watch.

[B]

Yeah, let's just start from the left. Michael. Or what do you. What are you doing? Just hit. Hit the spacebar after you highlight it, double click.

[A]

Well, what do you think I'm doing?

[B]

To be honest with you, I don't know. I had never have any idea what you're doing over there. Hold on, let me try import. It's like, what does it. What does he even get paid to do behind that computer? You know what I mean? Greg, do you have anybody you pay that you just look at and wonder whether or not like what you actually do for the money that.

[A]

No, I would fire him. Hey, your airdrop closed down. I'm trying to send you two more things.

[B]

He's already overwhelmed by the several that you've sent. Did your episode air yet where you guys pretended you couldn't tell which direction you were walking?

[A]

It's funny you say that because the shit I'm trying to send him right now ties into that.

[B]

Okay, here we go. Okay, so obviously this is. I'm gonna say that's the bow. Going deep into my naval terminology and lineage here.

[A]

Yes. So that's the bow.

[B]

So we got some solar. What's up on that top left?

[A]

That's just your tri colored light for your navigation.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then there's the stern.

[B]

So, okay, obviously this is solar. Does it. If it's clear enough, can it actually charge the batteries or do they charge it all while you're rowing as well?

[A]

Well, they charge. I've been playing around with those solar panels and they charge everything fast as.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's really impressive. It's the only power source.

[B]

So are they equal sized cabins front and back? Because I'm assuming that's where the person will know.

[A]

Stern is a smaller cabin. It's like four feet long. Yeah. And the bow is like a six foot cabin. But the four foot cabin, it has a space that's like this long and about that high that your legs can slide under.

[B]

So you can put your head under there.

[A]

That's how you're going to want to

[B]

do it when you guys are doing tornado rolls. Keep going, Michael. Okay.

[A]

And so yeah, the, the boat is configured to have three rowers, but we're only gonna have two. And then just have an extra seat, which is kind of nice. Just have a little more space on deck. But yeah, you have two guys rowing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And usually do like. Most teams will do like a two or a three hour shift. So it's three on, three off for 55 to 70ish days,

[B]

dude.

[A]

And bro, I haven't done some crazy shit in a while and that's why I'm doing this.

[B]

You don't have to do this.

[A]

Yeah, I do have to do this. Well, I'm doing it now. I already bought the boat, dude.

[B]

But you just turn that into like a pleasure craft, bro.

[A]

I was watching you fly around in the snow this morning. Or yesterday I was helping out the. You're flying around in your wing suit and shit.

[B]

Yeah. That's all safe.

[A]

Way more dangerous.

[B]

Oh, no way. Not even.

[A]

Yes, dude.

[B]

Your likelihood of dying in that is 84%.

[A]

So that boat's called Ironic 45. They've never lost someone in Ironic in an ocean crossing.

[B]

How many of these do you think actually exist? Like a Dozen. Are we talking? There's hundreds of these?

[A]

No, no, no. I bet there's. I bet there's 30. Something like that.

[B]

Wow. So normally at any given time, how many people have some wild ass idea like this?

[A]

Well, so there's. There's a race that happens every year and it's from Portugal to Antigua. They just did it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And like 10 or 15 teams take this boat and go across the Atlantic.

[B]

Are you allowed to board and raid other vessels?

[A]

We'll play that by ear as we go. I'm just saying.

[B]

I'm just saying if you wanted to enter that race and that was something that we may be able to do, I might.

[A]

You might join. Yes. But the thing is, the race is supported, right? So you have other boats out there throwing you espressos. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there it is.

[B]

That is still not a short race.

[A]

No, it's a long race.

[B]

My goodness.

[A]

But. And then the other team went from New York to London and. And that was a solo unsupported mission. And bro, it's wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, if I wanted to. I've wanted to sail the world for a long time and I was like, you know what?

[B]

Never had that desire.

[A]

My first leg of the journey is going to be in a rowboat.

[B]

Do you think after this you will still want to get a sailboat one day and sail it?

[A]

We'll see. Maybe I'll never want to see the ocean again.

[B]

Are you talk my. And when you have that in your mind, that desire to do that. Is this like a big catamaran? Okay. Yeah, like water world.

[A]

No. Yeah, we want to get like a, a big catamaran and have the whole family go around the world at some point.

[B]

I feel like that is super cheap.

[A]

It's cheap, bro.

[B]

And it's like just like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[A]

No, no, no, no. Like, obviously the boat is an initial. The, the cost of the boat is obviously a initial expense.

[B]

Yeah, the acquisition cost is huge.

[A]

But after that, bro, there's guys that do world cruising that say they spend like 500amonth.

[B]

And so that's not bad.

[A]

No.

[B]

Dude, who's going to teach at your school?

[A]

Probably my black belt, Daniel, that lives in a trailer behind the gym and is the most savage man in the county.

[B]

Well, as soon as you said trailer behind the gym, I just kind of. I mean, there are.

[A]

I'm not full on. Full on jiu jitsu life.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not Sherlock Holmes, but I feel like even I could follow those clues there. There's some touched people out there. But I mean, think of everything we've ever done in our careers. The people who were the best at fill in the blank always were a little bit touched in some. Like they their thing, like shooters. Like, why are you on this range at 4:00 in the morning, dry firing? Like, this is not normal. I appreciate it, but this isn't normal.

[A]

You know, and on one hand, I'm kind of over all that, like, trying to be the best and always like, the competition of all that.

[B]

The best at what?

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Like all. But whatever. Shooting Jiu jitsu, whatever it is, man. Do you feel like you're moving in a phase where this is a funny story? Because I'm going on this row, I have spent less time on the mats. I spent a lot of time teaching. Probably getting better, but way better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when it's called recovery. And when I roll, though, I don't have the expectation of winning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just like, I'm just gonna go out there and just play around and see what happens, bro. My jiu jitsu is getting better.

[B]

Yeah. You're being more creative would be my guess.

[A]

Yeah. And it forces you to try less. And I know that sounds counterproductive, but you're a black belt. You understand that.

[B]

No, I was just doing it. Like, what I was wrong with the. Like, I'll let go. I'm like, whatever, dude. I'll let go of whatever. And they'll put me in positions where they think it's really going to go their way. And it's really not 100% not going to. And I don't even care. Yeah. I mean, I must have let go of four or five things and it's like, I just don't care. And the wear and tear on my body is less and I enjoy it more.

[A]

Yeah. And then you grab the triangle and grab the wrong leg. It almost gave me a panic attack.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

I saw how it played out.

[B]

Yeah. The reason I grabbed that leg is I wanted him to swing me to the other side because it would have been exhausting for me to try to do it on my own.

[A]

And then he did. And then he tapped.

[B]

Yeah. No, Sometimes I will knowingly do the wrong thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the hope that the person's reaction will funnel me towards the right thing. And it almost always works out.

[A]

No. And the second he did it. Yeah. I think you even said something. You're like, thank you for that. You talk a lot of when you roll.

[B]

No, I don't that's only when you and I roll.

[A]

Well, I heard you talking to him, so only when you and I roll or when you and him.

[B]

We were laughing, we weren't talking. Some people are really overly talkative when they roll. I don't know how to deal with that.

[A]

Oh, I just straight up say, like, I don't talk when I roll. I'm not here to have a conversation.

[B]

But what if they don't stop? Then it's weird.

[A]

Then I'll. Mothers milk them, but with them, because

[B]

at some point they will tap to that.

[A]

Of course they will.

[B]

And then they start the one sided conversation again and I just, I don't know, it's socially awkward.

[A]

Yeah, I'm not a fan. I thought like in my academy I say that like, hey, we hang out in the sauna and like kick it at the picnic tables and stuff. That's where you can catch up about the weekend and how everybody's kids are doing. When you're rolling, be focused on the role.

[B]

Yeah, I'll talk with people about technique or if they have a question, most of the time I'll actually tell them, okay, let's wait to after the five minutes and I'll show you. Or you can ask me the question then. Half the time I don't even remember. It's another thing too. People think that because you're a black belt, you remember everything that happened in the role and you have an answer to everything.

[A]

Well, and some people do. My brain doesn't work like that.

[B]

I had a guy today, he goes, hey, how did you do that thing? We were rolling. I looked at him and I don't know what you're talking about.

[A]

I'm the exact same one.

[B]

He's like, you're on this side of me, then you're on the other side. I'm like, yep, maybe don't know.

[A]

Well, plus, bro, you know, like once you become very competent at Jiu jitsu, it's not even like a cognitive thought process. You, Jiu Jitsu is just happening. So it's hard to review it and be like, well, right here. I did this because of this. And it's like, no, no, it's just, it's like flow state.

[B]

I'm trying to play around with minimum effort required to achieve the end state. What's the lightest grip I can take? What's the least amount? Like today I was messing around with some omoplata stuff. What's the, Is there a way I could get them to move and then I can kick the leg over. Is there a way I could elicit no energy from myself but throw them into a mousetrap, which to me, is just another way to just keep it fascinating, bro.

[A]

That's why I love butterfly. You geeked out on butterfly yet?

[B]

Are we talking about, like, pinning butterflies into, like, a. On the wall, or are you talking about butterfly?

[A]

We're talking about butterfly sweeps. We're talking about jiu jitsu. No, I'm not talking about becoming entomologists and collecting insects.

[B]

Listen, with you, it could be, like,

[A]

hey, one of my black belts.

[B]

It could be, like, crystals.

[A]

One of my black belts is an entomologist.

[B]

It could be crystals. Right above that would be a rune diagram. Right next to that would be several Japanese butterflies. It'd be like this crescendo back down to a crystal. No, I don't struggle too much with butterfly guard. I feel like I would just destroy you in your butterfly guard, bro.

[A]

Okay. Are you training tonight, too?

[B]

I mean, if you're gonna come and teach class, I have no choice.

[A]

Yeah, dude, it sucks you're sick, though. That's what I'm saying.

[B]

And also, like, you don't need to be doing any extracurricular activity leading up to this. Yeah, we can roll again. We can roll some other time.

[A]

I know, but I want a butterfly sweep. You.

[B]

It won't happen, though.

[A]

Nobody can stop my butterfly sweep. Except probably Adam Wardzinski himself.

[B]

She's probably the one who taught it to you.

[A]

Well, dude, I've been doing butterfly since I was a blue belt. But I'll tell you what. Three hours with Adam, change my butterfly guard.

[B]

Yeah, you should.

[A]

Are you guys coming up for the seminar?

[B]

I will be out of town. Leo is. I will be on my way to see Frisella.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She was thinking about coming. Her coach is teaching a seminar here the same day.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So she's out, and she had this existential crisis of, like, oh, my God, she should.

[A]

Because Adam. Here's the thing.

[B]

So he wants. She wants desperately to come train with him, but she doesn't want to step on the toes coach either.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, there's always.

[B]

And not. She doesn't mean her local coach. The head of SVG is coming here to teach a seminar that same day, which is who she got her black belt from. So she's kind of limited options, but she. She was. Not that Adam will listen to this, but if he does, put your dates up a little bit more often in your social profile so people can find it. She went on A deep dive. Trying to find out future seminars and where he.

[A]

Bro, he has a, like, big tour he's doing.

[B]

She. Well, maybe perhaps Leah do a better job of fighting the tour then.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She was like, I can't find any dates. Why doesn't people put their dates up?

[A]

Bro, he's a homie now. I'll text him when we're done. Yeah, for sure. Get his dates.

[B]

His butterfly guard looks sick.

[A]

And it works against everybody.

[B]

That nothing does well.

[A]

I mean, it works. It. Well, it worked his way to the World Championship two years in a row.

[B]

How about Gordon Ryan?

[A]

Here's an interesting thing. Gordon Ryan butterfly swept Boucher with a shoulder crunch.

[B]

Remember that? That was sick, bro.

[A]

I'm talent. Have you ever rolled with Marcus? Because I know you've trained with them a time or two.

[B]

He was at Origin Camp. First off, that man is bigger than I thought he was.

[A]

He's a fucking.

[B]

And also, I thought he was big in my mind before I saw him. And then I saw him in person. Was like, you're doing what professionally? Fighting in Japan? Yeah. Oh, my God. And he was showing a pass, and he was talking about just surfing with his hips and basically describing emotionally allowing people to think that there was a way out. And he's like, first I break them emotionally, and then I make them tap. And I was like, are you my spirit animal? Where have you been?

[A]

My whole belief, you know, he broke me emotionally probably a thousand times.

[B]

Yeah, that's, I think, how it goes. So he wasn't training? He was, but he was showing some stuff. And I asked him a question, and you can just. You can just feel the difference in precision on the pressure and how they move. You're like, oh. But I mean, also, when did he start? When he was like, two?

[A]

He started at 12.

[B]

God, can you imagine?

[A]

And you know what he said to me one day after practice? He's like, fuck, bro. I wish I started when I was younger. I said, you only are the reigning world champion.

[B]

I started when I was 41. I don't want a 12.

[A]

12's not working out. But see, now you got the kids, like the Rotolo brothers that started, I think, in. In five years. If you didn't start jiu jitsu at two, you're not gonna be relevant on that scene.

[B]

It might actually be shorter than that. We were just in Costa Rica, and the Rotola brothers have a gym down there. And they will also come to Hero bjj. One of the guys was talking about, you know, when you take somebody's back. And you can kick their legs out from underneath them. You just sit them down in front of you. The rotola brothers, when you try that, end up in side control on you.

[A]

So their. Their hips come high, they turn, they

[B]

swim out of it. As you are kicking them, they swim out of it, rotate in the air, and you go from kicking a dude to sit seating in front of you and having his back to being in bottom side control.

[A]

Yeah. Have you ever met those kids? No. They're cool, man.

[B]

I'm sure they are.

[A]

Like, I was at an airport and you know how long you walk by a jiu jitsu guy? Sometimes you can kind of just be

[B]

like, no, I'm not weird like you.

[A]

Yeah, no, you are. You're a jiu jitsu guy now, whether you admit it or not.

[B]

No.

[A]

And we started talking, aggressive hobbyist, you're a professional. And as soon as they found out I was a third degree black belt, they started referring to me as professor. And I was like, come on, pump the brakes on that, right? And when I told them that I got my black belt from Joao Sis, they're like, oh, dude, that was like one of our idols when we were little boys. We loved watching him, man. I bet they said something of the effect of like, man, I bet you'd be a gnarly roll. I'm like, dude, just bring it back to reality.

[B]

I can attest to that. You're a gnarly roll. It's like. It's like sandpaper stuck under a rock.

[A]

Year old hobbyists like me and Lapin always talk about it. Like, we have good jiu jitsu.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But sure. And we own gyms, but we're still like a hobbyist of jiu.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, also, what are we doing this for? I do it for enjoyment. That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It. It fulfills a certain, like, physical expression, which to me, physicality or being physical and mental health have always been tied. So it fulfills that I get to travel the world with my wife and she gets to teach, and I get to sit there and pretend like I know what I'm doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like the worst uki. She'll be like. And then I'm like, oh, what am I supposed to do? What I've started doing? She'll show. She'll start a sweep and I just jump through the air. It's like, wham. And you hit the net like, oh,

[A]

I was so good.

[B]

You oversell it.

[A]

An UKI is an art.

[B]

It is an Art.

[A]

Because every like. And that's why if I'm teaching, I love having one of my ukies with me because, like, sometimes you'll go to sweet people and you'll feel them base out and it's like, we're not rolling. What are you doing right now?

[B]

A number of times I've seen that at a seminar, somebody will ask a question and they'll say, well, how do you deal with this? And this actually happens with Henry all the time. And the net result is always the same. He basically beats the out of them in front of everybody. I'd be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Come out here. And they proceed to almost start to have a live role. And I just don't. It's like, dude, you paid money to be here. What are you doing?

[A]

Well, even a new white belt understands the concept that how Jiu jitsu works is I do this move and then you potentially have a counter to the counter, to the counter, to the counter, to the counter. Right. To learn each individual piece, we obviously have to drill it at a speed where you can learn each individual piece. Just because you're learning, say, a butterfly sweep, that doesn't mean there's not a counter to it. But that's. Well, what if I did this? It's like, okay, what if my aunt had balls? She'd be my uncle. Like, fuck, dude.

[B]

It's possible in 2020.

[A]

Yeah, that might be offensive, Michael. Pull that part out, dude.

[B]

Yeah, or just look up whether or not that's offensive. We depends on the person.

[A]

So I'll tell you who came into town and taught a seminar and then did my podcast that I've never trained with before until recently is Rafael Lovato.

[B]

I know who that is, bro. Is he super tall in person?

[A]

He's one of the biggest. He's like a bouchea size. And I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he. He says to me after the seminar, he goes, hey, man, since I'm doing your podcast, that means we got to get a role in before.

[B]

No, it doesn't.

[A]

I knew exactly what that meant.

[B]

Yeah, that meant he was about to throttle.

[A]

He's the only person. And, you know, like, I've trained with a lot of really, really high level guys, and I know what it's like to get beat by better Jiu jitsu. Like Joao beats me with better Jiu jitsu or Adam Warzinski beats me with better jitsu. But, like, bouchea just beats me like I'm a child. And there's nothing I can do about it. Yeah. And Lovato felt the same way. It was weird.

[B]

Do you think that they are even remotely excited about Jiu Jitsu anymore because they are that far ahead of people, or do they feel like they're just playing with kids on the short bus?

[A]

No, Lovato is excited about being on the mats every single day to the point where it's almost. It's. I don't want to say bizarre because that, like, puts a negative connotation to it, but it's like that guy has maintained excitement for being a martial artist because, you know, he went from Jiu Jitsu's his. His foundation, but he went to Bellator and won the middleweight title.

[B]

Did he really?

[A]

Yeah, in mma. And he took it from Gagard Massowsi, who's a beast. And you know what he's doing right now? He just joined a collegiate wrestling team in Oklahoma as a participant. He is. Yeah, he is wrestling for. It's like. I forget what, I forget what.

[B]

Like, he's in college, right?

[A]

He's in college because he was. Yeah, yeah, there he is, dude. There he is, bro.

[B]

Oh, hit play, dude.

[A]

He got. Because he never graduated college and I might be messing this up, so that's not what happened. But from what I understand, he was eligible to go back to school because they needed a heavyweight and. And, bro, he's doing well.

[B]

Well, I would mean it. He has been grappling for a while. What happens?

[A]

But these are 24, 23 year old collegiate wrestlers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Lovato's in the mix with the man.

[B]

What happens if you're in your wrestling, you start doing Jiu Jitsu stuff? Do you get disqualified?

[A]

Obviously, like you can't do. No. Yeah, there's certain, there's certain stuff that carries over and there's certain stuff that you can't do. But,

[B]

you know, what I get from watching this video already is a curiosity as to whether or not we're missing out by not doing Jiu Jitsu and singlets.

[A]

Well, if you want to bring two singlets tonight, we can see how it plays out for us. Yeah, we can make it.

[B]

But you'll be teaching, though. I don't even know where you get a singlet, if I'm being honest. And I actually think that wrestling would have much higher participation if they chose a different outfit.

[A]

Yeah, but Lovato said to me, because when he did my podcast, I was. I referenced his prime and he's like, bro, I'm in my prime right now.

[B]

How old is he?

[A]

42. He goes, I came into my prime at like early 20s. And he goes, I'm still riding that wave. But he's also super disciplined. Like, no alcohol, no junk food. Like, he's like a karate kid. His dad kind of molded him into this like elite martial artist from the time he was a child, but his dad did the journey with him. He got. He's a black belt too now, so it's. It's cool to see.

[B]

How was he on the podcast?

[A]

Awesome, bro. You want an interesting podcast?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Lovato would be a good one. Adam Orzinski would be a good one.

[B]

I like Adam's stuff. I just like the highlights of him sweeping people. Basically just either ankle kicking or ankle blocking people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you can also tell too, some of those people are just coming after him like a total asshole.

[A]

Well, the thing, the thing about Adam though is he wants that because he told. He sent me a text before he came. Yeah, he goes, hey, bro, if the seminar starts at 11, invite all the toughest black belts in the area to do like comp level training from 10 to 11. And I said, okay, yeah, but see,

[B]

that's separating it from the seminar.

[A]

No, no, you know what I mean?

[B]

Like, and I have no problem with that as long as both parties naturally agree to it. You ever seen the video where Craig Jones. Yeah, he's over in fucking something stand.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And they're like, no more instruction. They want to roll. And he's like, okay, let me just fucking break every L. You know, PC MC ac. Because the guy was coming after me. Which is also what you get, by the way.

[A]

Here's the other thing that people need to realize. Like, if I were to tap Adam Orzinski on a random day like that, that doesn't make me the fucking world champion. You know what I'm saying? It kind of doesn't, dude, because you have. There's so much that goes into preparation and being like the best guy in

[B]

the world tournaments and the other 12 matches that day.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Right, totally. Like, so you catch a guy on an off day or you think, like, that makes you special, doesn't make you special. You want to compete against him when he's at the, at his prime, Go sign up for the Worlds and see what happens.

[B]

But like, I can tell you what's going to happen.

[A]

Yeah, I can too. You know what's interesting about Adam, and I'm not saying this to like diminish him at all, because he's A very strong dude. Right. But I'm pretty strong myself. And when we locked horns, it wasn't like this over, like, a lot of times. Those, like Boucheta and Lovato or even Joao. It's like this overwhelming power. That's like.

[B]

That's how he described it when I was rolling with him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Like, what can you do with that, right?

[B]

He tried to get a hold of me now, just like Super Am, which is, like.

[A]

Took his grips with Adam. It's just like, you're going for a ride and you can't stop it. He had really, really strong hands.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like his. You can't break his grips once he

[B]

has grips out of context. You know what I mean?

[A]

We've been talking about jiu jitsu for 20 minutes.

[B]

I'm just saying, you know, the context in context. Excellent sentence.

[A]

Michael, pull that clip and isolate it out of.

[B]

Out of context. People will be like, huh? What are you guys into now? You know, it's. Anytime I get a chance to roll with people like that, I got. I am like. I try to be so respectful because I have watched now for the very short period of time that I have been involved in Jiu Jitsu, even just coaches traveling. It's like, why are you putting a bullseye on this person? Like, it. And it's. And I watched the wear and tear of that. I'm like, I'm never gonna fucking be that guy. I will give you the most chill, like, respectful rule that you're ever gonna have. Unless you're like, hey, come. And we wanna do. If you're like, an hour before. And you're like, hey. Cause this happens at Origin Camp. People are like, hey, Worlds is after this. We're gonna go for pace. I'm like, listen, I can't give you a technical challenge, but, like, we can throttle if you want to. We'll go quickly. I'm 100% down for that. It's when nobody says anything and a guy is trying to have a chill day. The guy's like, today is the day.

[A]

Well, that's where it gets weird, you know, Like, a lot of times your gym has a certain culture. People kind of understand what's acceptable, what's not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But when you're traveling and you're doing seminars and different people are showing up, you always get one guy that's just a douchebag.

[B]

Yeah. Fortunately, I find that Jiu Jitsu weeds most of the douches out.

[A]

Unless you're in Dagestan or whatever. I think he was in Ukraine, actually.

[B]

It was in a stand, I think.

[A]

I'm pretty sure this is the.

[B]

We don't need to watch this. I do not voluntarily like to watch people's fucking ligaments explode.

[A]

However, that he asked for it, though.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Got exactly what he was trying to do.

[A]

No, I watched Joao break a dude's thumb one time, and it was so

[B]

much for single digit manipulation.

[A]

No, he has a. Well, he calls it the chicken wing, where he grabs your hand here like this, and it's how he defends guillotine.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he pulls the hand this way, right? And the guy would not. And he's a white belt. He doesn't know anything. Because, Joe, I was talking about how to get out of the guillotine. It's exactly what you were just saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And this guy raised his hand and goes, literally, bro, I don't think that would work on me. And it's like, Joao is an ADCC champion, right? It's. It's gonna work on you. And so Joe out, just like Henry is like, all right, come out. Let's. Let's see.

[B]

Yeah, let's.

[A]

Let's do.

[B]

Let me guess. If it starts like this. First they get into the position and there's just a little bit of movement. And then almost instantaneously, it rapidly escalates 100.

[A]

Yeah, because the guy was gonna try. He was gonna try and show Joel that I can pop your head off with the guillotine. And now Joao's like, okay, now it's ADCC finals intensity. And grabs and start turning it, turning it, turning it. Goes pop. And he goes, oh, you broke my thumb. And draw a point at him. Goes, you broke your thumb.

[B]

100 correct.

[A]

Are you talking about.

[B]

Dude, you were just watching a video the other day. I'm sure you've seen this, where the black belt gets caught by a purple belt and he stands up and he starts swinging at him. And the dude in the attempt to swing, starts throwing punches, falls into a fucking triangle.

[A]

I don't think I've seen that.

[B]

Well, you're about to, because I hear Michael typing away, but it's like, dude, just. And so Michael was asking, yeah, chewy head. It's like, just tap, dude. If you don't know what's happening, just no one gives a. So look at this. So the purple. It's the one on the right. Purple belt catches him in something, and this black boat's like, you were cranking my neck. You were cranking my neck. So eventually he Taps. Check this out though. Right into a triangle.

[A]

See? And. And now, and now I'm gonna put you to sleep.

[B]

That's what I was saying was like, at first I was like, I hope these guys are brothers and this guy just puts him out. What ends up happening is I think this guy, it's hard to tell, but I think that's a black belt. And then other white belts start coming over to break this up. Biggest lie in the game, that jiu jitsu is ego destroying. Because when you. I find it to be when you start, but then you find people that if you do catch them, it is like an affront to who they are as a person. Because ego is built back to something that is almost like they can't handle a challenge to it in any way, shape or form.

[A]

No. I tell my guys all the time, like, I hate that phrase, check your ego at the door because we're going to try and take each other down, get on top of each other and strangle each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's an ego. I'm trying to win. If you're trying to win, that's an ego driven activity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I tell my guys, check in with your ego. Like, losing sucks and winning feels good. That's just part of life. That's part of reality. But if you find yourself on the losing end, then that's when you need to check in with yourself and be like, okay, how am I going to behave? How am I, how am I going to act?

[B]

I tell my kids, you need to lose in the same way that you win.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So if you're going to sit there and like rip your geese over when

[A]

you win, do it when you lose.

[B]

Like when you tap, you better do exactly the same thing. And if you don't want to do that, then reconsider your actions when you win.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's got to be the both on the same because I agree with you. Winning feels awesome, but you need to be able to deal with that. And just like losing sucks a massive dawn.

[A]

And that's why I don't like those big celebrations and like, in, okay, you won the world title, maybe you can run around and open your gi up and.

[B]

But also maybe not.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's not how I'm wired.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But like, don't sell. I'll call my guys out if I see them celebrate in the gym.

[B]

Yeah, nothing in the gym matters.

[A]

Everybody already knows there's two people that should be concerned with how the role went. And they both know how the role went.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So There doesn't have to be any type of celebration or any of the bullshit, and I'll check my guys on that stuff. But, yeah, dude, being a bad loser, it's like, what do you think we're doing here? Yeah, you're never gonna get where you want to be without being submitted. I don't know. What. How many times do you get submitted before you got your black belt? 26.

[B]

I would say, like, high teens. Thousands. High teens of the thousands.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. Right.

[B]

So I was, like, spent years staring at the ceiling fan, like, huh. I know exactly how many tiles are.

[A]

Yeah, I remember you telling me that. I love it when people ask me, like, andy got his black belt fast. Is. Is it legit? And it's like, oh, here we go again.

[B]

I get that all the time.

[A]

Come roll with them.

[B]

I've offered that to a few people, first class, but the only condition was that it goes on YouTube. And none of them have taken me up on it. Why?

[A]

Because it took them.

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

Took me 10 years to get my black belt. So I should be upset that it took you half that long? Like, who. Why. Why is that even part of the equation?

[B]

Because you want to ruin your happiness by comparing your life to others? I could care less. And here's the thing. I didn't. I didn't ask my coach for any of my belts. Yeah.

[A]

I tell people all the time.

[B]

I didn't know I was going to get it. The day that I did, I was like, oh, okay.

[A]

Oh, fuck. I guess I'm a black belt now.

[B]

Cool. And then I, like, went to open that that day and shockingly enough, had no more ability, skill, knowledge. Like, have you played it all with the milker?

[A]

Grip Milker. That's a. That's going to be another little excerpt.

[B]

So it's proprietary. So let me see your hand. I've been. I've been messing with this. It's completely illegal, but I'll grab people like this now. It stops them in their tracks.

[A]

Yes, because it's not allowed, actually. But why? Well, because I don't do anything with it. So you're not. Wait, hold on, though. I'm thinking because we're not allowed to bend fingers. But you're not bending. No, you're just holding on.

[B]

It's so you grab it and then you make eye contact.

[A]

Just all kinds. Make it as weird as possible.

[B]

They freeze.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or the guys. I do it to the gym. We laugh so hard that we actually have to stop rolling for a Second, because it's so stupid. It's pretty powerful. It's two on one.

[A]

Is your cowboy, your brown belt cowboy gonna be in tonight?

[B]

He got gored by a bison and had a punctured lung.

[A]

Oh, fuck.

[B]

And drove himself to a hospital hours away.

[A]

Of course he did, so probably not.

[B]

And that was not too long ago. So I believe you're talking about Michael.

[A]

As I say, if he's there, I'm going to duck that guy tonight.

[B]

He's strong.

[A]

He's. Yeah. Those are the kind of rounds that I need to avoid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Going into my role or my row.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'll fuck around with some of the guys there because I'm not sick anymore. Right. When you said, like, oh, well, if you're sick, don't go. Right. It's like, dude, I know. We knew what social distancing was long before COVID Yeah. Jujitsu. People invented that. If you're sick, stay away.

[B]

That's just actually.

[A]

Imagine that.

[B]

Good societal protocol.

[A]

Yeah. Everybody knew that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I just can't kick the last little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if you win now, I have an excuse built in.

[B]

I did. I'm not even gonna try to win because, like, in the back of my head I'm thinking, like, you got a rogue. Like, we could have like the roll. I wasn't with the purple belt. Like, like that's zero consequence. Fucking, like, I could care less. And the outcome, to me, it. Honestly, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. Black belts are some of the worst losers I've ever encountered.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because even to other black belts, I'm like, hey, man, one of these two people has to lose.

[A]

Yeah. I think it's because we don't lose that often anymore. So.

[B]

Depends on who you're training with.

[A]

You get. Oh, for sure. Right. Like, if I went down to Checkmat headquarters with all the studs down there, I'd. I'd lose 100 times in a night.

[B]

You could go to ATOS right now, though.

[A]

Probably not. So supposedly you should stay away from ATOs.

[B]

I'm just saying there's not a lot of black belts, bro. What do you make of that?

[A]

All right, well, since.

[B]

Have you heard of this Michael? Yeah, since my brother in law who had. Yeah. San Diego city firefighter had just signed up there again after having a hip replacement. Was like three weeks into a one year contract, which they let him out of, by the way. But he re. Signed up like a few weeks after this came out.

[A]

I think contracts are gross to start with.

[B]

You are Very contrarian and anti control in any stretch. This is based off of the very first time I ever saw your faces when you were in a cop car telling the government to get you when you were fired shortly thereafter.

[A]

If you go look at any gym's reviews on Yelp, the biggest complaint is I wanted to leave the gym and they wouldn't let me. And they'll let you.

[B]

You just pay.

[A]

Yeah, you just pay. Right.

[B]

I also understand it a little bit from the gym owner's perspective, because it's a way for you to forecast income. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I understand why some that choice.

[A]

I think for culture, when people want to leave, you let them leave. But this is, this is what always happens. And life happens, by the way, because we have, we have a. We can cancel your membership at any time with an email. But we asked for two weeks before pay because that way we can input it and whatever. Right. Everybody that cancels their contract is always like on the 30th of the month. And it's like, come on, dude, you know, like we're, we're, we make it very easy. And it still has to be a little bit of a problem. But regardless, I think for gym culture, I don't want people there, don't want to be there. So I would agree with that too. And like, we're at a place now, we have 300 students. Like, we don't need members. But if we actually close memberships for a while. But it's. We're at a place now where it's like, if good people want to join, cool. But if the, if people aren't on

[B]

the vibe, go, yeah, I think that's fair. It's easier for you to say that being at 300, whereas somebody starting who's at 30 wants to be able to forecast their income. Like I said, I don't think one's right or wrong. Wrong. I understand the business model break going

[A]

from 30 to like 50 is probably

[B]

the hardest, I would say, I've heard getting past 100.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is really difficult. Like a lot of gyms will. They're like 105. 99.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

115. 98. And just this.

[A]

And then whatever that thing is that happens, it just becomes exponential. It's wild, dude.

[B]

What do you make of the ATO stuff?

[A]

Well, for me to speak on it would be.

[B]

Here's what I know. 600 members of their gym have bailed.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Most of their black belts have left, female and male, which to me indicates if you're gonna go with where there's smoke, there's fire as the analogy. There's probably something there.

[A]

I would say Andre Gava fucked himself.

[B]

I completely agree.

[A]

And I don't know if basically, like, the allegations aren't like, oh, he raped me or whatever, but it is like mounting girls and moaning into their ears and grooming.

[B]

Yeah. As if. And. And I had heard. And this is bro.

[A]

And he, he was one of the, like, icons of Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

I know there's also a lot of other not. I'm not going to say a lot. This, I think has cracked the door for people to be a little bit more comfortable coming forward. Because I believe there's some other gym networks currently that are kind of experience a little bit of this. Yeah, it's gnarly, man. It's the opposite of what everybody says. Jiu Jitsu is supposed to be 100

[A]

and it's ruining, it's ruining the perception of Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the thing is, like, you see all these gyms that are like, oh, well, you know, our gym's actually a safe space. If you have to, if you have to say your gym is a safe space, you're. You're already missing the point of what you're trying to create. Like, you shouldn't have to verbalize that. Everybody should know it inherently.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, dude, I say it straight up to my team and we, we talk about it often. It's like, if you do anything to our girls, I'll kill you. I'll drag you out in the parking lot where we won't be doing Jiu Jitsu. It's very simple. Like, if you do anything to our females that's like, obviously sexual misconduct. But even like, if you go too hard on them, if you think like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get this purple belt and it's 110 pound female, and you start to try and give her the business. Like, it gets addressed immediately. Because, like, the truth about Jiu Jitsu is like, everybody wants to talk about, like, self defense and martial arts and, and it's true to a certain extent. But at the end of the day, a 205 pound guy versus a 105 pound girl, it doesn't matter if he's a white belt and she's a brown belt, if he can pick her up and throw her through a wall. Your Jiu Jitsu take you so far.

[B]

It might buy you some time.

[A]

It might buy you some time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So like, and I'm not saying Jiu Jitsu's fake. It's real.

[B]

But so is weight.

[A]

Yes, so is weight. And so strengths.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if we want to make our females capable of fending off a bigger, stronger attacker, then you have to build them to that slowly. That's why like I have people ask me, hey, can you do a weekend women's self defense seminars? Of course not. You think I'm gonna sell snake oil and be like, hey, come train with me for six hours and then you'll be able to fend off a rapist. Like, I don't think a female becomes capable of a real world application of Jiu Jitsu. Probably well into purple belt.

[B]

I would agree. And the bridge between that time is called a firearm.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. But even that, dude, like, because my mom's like, I carry my.38 special in my purse. I was like, when's the last time you shot it? And I remember the last time because I was with her. And I'm not exaggerating, I think it was 15 years ago.

[B]

38 snubby is going to do some ear pro damage. Let me tell you. Out of the first pistol though, I'm here for it, dude.

[A]

I said, mom, I would come up to you and take that thing right out of your fucking hands.

[B]

It is actually very.

[A]

Yeah. I say firearms are like Jiu jitsu, man. Like, you can't just put a GI on. And now like, hey, I know how this thing works. Like, you better put time and effort to understand how to implement that firearm. And if you're not.

[B]

Not.

[A]

It's. It's almost along the same lines as a women's self defense seminar. I think you're telling yourself a lie.

[B]

I think you can just, if you, if you have one, you're current and you're confident with it, it will level the playing field between men to women until you can get to that physical point. But yeah, it's. Yeah, they're not magic. You introduce a gun into a situation where one party's not ready to use it, you got a real big problem.

[A]

Are you kind of over guns?

[B]

I was having this conversation with your sponsors.

[A]

Won't let you say that because you got guns.

[B]

I don't have any gun sponsors.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I. The. I'm not enamored by guns.

[A]

Were you ever?

[B]

No, because I honestly, I think I feel about them like a carpenter would about a hammer hanging off his tool belt.

[A]

It's just part of the job.

[B]

I completely appreciate what they are and what they can do. And I love the fact that people can. I was online the other day, I forget what it was. I was looking up. I was actually looking up a gun. And it's like, I was a caliber. I'm like, God, I've never even heard of that. And then I went down. I'm like, what are all these new, like these 3, 38 arc and all? I'm like, to me, not interesting even remotely. Because first off, when the zombie apocalypse comes.

[A]

Yeah. You're not going to find that round.

[B]

What you're going to get is 9mil. 45, 762 and 5.56. Probably so. But also nerd out if you want to. That has never been my thing. Even when I was in. People are like, hey, man, when you were in a sniper, did you polish the brass on your 300 win mag? Like, they're like, where'd you get your. They'd be like, where'd you get your bullets on? Like out of the brown box if it came out of the green.

[A]

Isn't it funny that people think because you are a ranger or a SEAL that you're like an expert on ballistics? Some of the guys are, yeah, they're gun nerds. Yeah.

[B]

But they were gun nerds before they.

[A]

We had a guy named Amic in my company and I'm sure this would be illegal in today's military, but his whole room in the barracks was like a reloading facility.

[B]

That's definitely illegal. And I feel like he was reloading military brass, which is another step, perhaps. So for me, guns, like I carry a gun. There's a gun in my fanny pack.

[A]

Same.

[B]

But also it. I don't. They just. It's just a tool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? I lost the luster for them being something that was mythical. And because a lot of people, they don't really understand them. You know, there's like a lot. There's a 300 plus million guns in circulation. There's still a lot of people who've never touched one, been around one, handled one. And to them, I understand that like the mythology that people may think about a gun, but to me it's just. It's just a tool, man. It's just a hammer hanging off a tool belt.

[A]

I noticed that I. I really lost interest in firearms after I bought a bow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because like I can just go out outside of my jiu jitsu academy. We got our target set up.

[B]

Yeah. It's tougher to take a movie theater though. You know what I mean? This is my concealed carry bow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like sir, what's under your shirt? Like, nothing.

[A]

No, I also, and I know like, people probably be screaming at their radios when they say this because I don't train that much anymore, but I also trained for 20 years with a firearm.

[B]

Yes, I do, infrequently as well.

[A]

And so it's like I'm also not

[B]

training for an 800 yard shot. That's right. Your average engagement is going to be 25 and in, probably with a pistol.

[A]

And like I always preach like capability and training and staying current and all that stuff. And it's true to a certain extent, but the, the drive to want to be on the range all the time, it's kind of gone now.

[B]

I also don't want to shoot anybody. I'd really like to avoid violence at all costs and just go the other direction.

[A]

Other than some of the people that we were talking about on the walk to the coffee shop, they keep implementing tax hikes over and over and over.

[B]

I don't think we should say that. Was Greg Anderson saying he wants to attack? God, why are you so critical of our government? They have our best interests in mind. Do you think it's past the point of being salvageable?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So what does that look like then? It just gets the. What do you think the tipping point would look like? An actual, like revolt in the street? People just, just no longer even wanting to run for those offices. People ignoring what the government says. What do you think?

[A]

It's funny you asked, because part of my row is to just go like, detach from all the, all of it and just focus on adventure, focus on myself, focus on, on the team that I'm out there with. But there's a part of me that believes when I come back, the country is gonna, there has. We're going to move into another phase of instability sooner or later. I mean, we saw it happen in 2020 and that was just kind of the test run. It's like, oh, you're. Put your tinfoil hat on. You know all the we talked about when I came out here six years ago, it's all true now.

[B]

Was that six years ago?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, let's be careful with it's

[A]

all true because it's all true.

[B]

We talked about alien invasion.

[A]

Yeah. And according to our government, it's all true.

[B]

I want that one to be true.

[A]

I don't know, man. I don't think we can vote our way out of this because I don't think, I don't think any of the systems that we have in place are not corrupted. And I'm not saying, like, oh, we're going to get, like, teams of men, and then we're going to overthrow this. And I don't know if it's feasible for 350 million people to operate under one umbrella and have the system run smoothly. I just don't know if it's possible.

[B]

What do you think it'll happen that'll go to a state level? Like, it'll fracture into the States instead of the United States.

[A]

I think. I think what's more likely to happen than, like, a coordinated revolution? I think we'll see aspects of society just start to fall apart. And if you look like. Look at inner cities and whatnot, we're already seeing it. Right. I think we're gonna see that get worse and worse and worse to the point where it's uncontrollable and humanity will probably eat itself. Have you ever. Have you ever read that book One Minute After? It's about a electromagnetic pulse taking down the power grid in America.

[B]

Of course. This is on your nightstand underneath a crystal that glows at night.

[A]

Well, bro, I mean, if you think about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How long before people just turn savage and are literally eating each other?

[B]

Nine meals is. We're nine meals from anarchy is a quote that is not mine. But that's about.

[A]

But if you say it three times, then you can take credit for it.

[B]

Yeah. No. So that would be about 72 hours. I do think that the infrastructure of the US is way more susceptible. Of course, people think it actually is. And fragile. What's the quote, Michael? I hear you type. It's nine meals from anarchy.

[A]

There are only nine meals between mankind. Mankind and anarchy was said by Alfred Henry Lewis.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah, that guy. Old Mr. Lewis.

[B]

Yeah. Nine meals

[A]

and it might be like a natural disaster. It might be something that takes the grid down or you want to put on your tinfoil hat, the global elites might orchestrate it and just let the peasants. God, just let the peasants eat themselves.

[B]

Here we go.

[A]

I know you. You believe more of that now than you used to.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

There's a there.

[B]

Well, here's the thing.

[A]

The world is a stage. Maybe there's a bunch of bullshit happening.

[B]

I'm not. I'm not going to argue that. But I don't know where to put the. The Metrodome onto how bad it is. I do believe that there are different categories and classes of people speaking economically to be like. And that's very what people think. You know, I only make $50,000 a year. my barista job. Like, just so you know, as far as global wealth goes, you're 1%. 1% of the entire world. So put a little bit of context into that. There are people who are richer now than there have ever been, which has always been the case. There's always been somebody who's been richer than there's ever been. And I think that rich people want to stay rich, and I think that powerful people want to stay powerful. Are they coordinating behind the scenes to control everybody? Like marionette dolls? I don't know.

[A]

I don't know either. But it feels like there's truth behind it. It does.

[B]

Well, it's because I think there is such a gap between, for ease of vernacular, the haves and the have nots. I mean, I don't understand. I don't know nothing about Elon Musk. Interesting character, for sure. I think his net worth is approaching, like, $800 billion.

[A]

Yeah, he's gonna be the first trillion.

[B]

Yeah. It's like. Okay, first off, I lost track of what that even means.

[A]

Yeah, you can.

[B]

A lot of zeros ago.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What, so what does a guy like that want or what does he want for? I mean, nothing really. Right. Because he can have anything. And I also think that's where people start corking off and getting into some really weird proclivities, whether it's underage women or young women. You know, I mean, like, when everything is available to you, I think maybe you get a little bit weird because you can have anything that you want, and then that becomes not enough. I'm not excusing that behavior. I'm just trying to think about rationally, like, how does somebody get there? I also believe that some people just come out of the box broken. They're sociopathic or psychopathic. And a 9 millimeter round between the

[A]

eyes is probably exactly what they need.

[B]

Well, I think it's actually the only solution to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not that I'm advocating for people to go out there and do that to those that they think are like that, but I do think there's this huge gap between haves and have nots. I just don't know how coordinated it is. I think powerful people want more than anything to stay in power. Does that mean that they all are manipulating those that are underneath them? I don't think so.

[A]

Well, like, dude, did you see the. The new mayor of New York? Do you see the video of all the cops having, like, snowballs thrown at him?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then did you see his response?

[B]

He said it was a Playful game.

[A]

It just looked like a snowball fight to me. What's the big deal about a snowball fight? Yeah, but it's like these people, his

[B]

team requires him to say that and we become. When you become ideologically captured by the color of your jersey, I don't even think you believe half the shit you say something.

[A]

That's what I'm saying though. We have these, this, this class of people that everything that comes out of their mouth is false. Everything that they stand for is corrupt. All they want to do is tax us to oblivion. And this isn't even a right or left thing. I think we're finding ourselves in a place right now where people are fed up with the government on both sides because for the longest time it's like I'm on the right, I'm a conservative and these stupid blue haired liberals like this, it's this, it's this almost like fabricated constant tension and it's like, what are they doing in the meantime? They're taxing us to oblivion. Like to oblivion, bro. Like they're in Washington state where I'm from. They are, they just passed a income tax which is against the Washington state constitution and 90% of Washingtonians didn't want it. 90%, how did it pass? Because the fucking. They, they legislated it and put it to the. Yeah.

[B]

What'd they put it at?

[A]

Well, $1 million, right.

[B]

Total.

[A]

No. Any, anything that you make above a million dollars. What's the tax rate is 10%.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Subject to a 10 tax but nobody wanted it. And same thing like Washington state voted for thirty dollar car tabs and they, the government vetoed it and said that that's not enough money for us to.

[B]

Are you talking about the sticker on the license?

[A]

The sticker on that? Yeah. You guys call them tags, right?

[B]

I don't even know.

[A]

Okay, but still like we, we keep voting these things and the public is being very vocal about no, we don't want that. And they say you're going to do it anyways. How long do they get to say you're going to do it anyways before we say you right? And bro, saying you to authority used to be honorable. Like George Washington's on our money because we look at what he said and we say, yeah, he said the king. And there's a part of that that resonates with people. But now you can't say that anymore. And I don't know, man, I don't know where it's gonna go. I think, I think something big is Gonna happen, though, in our lifetime.

[B]

What do you think it'll be again?

[A]

It's hard to say. I don't think it'll be like a coordinated revolution because I just think there's.

[B]

You think one state we'll say Idaho is just gonna lose their shit.

[A]

Maybe. Or maybe it's a perfect storm. Maybe it's a natural disaster that should just. The wheels fall off and now there's. There's no. Because, dude, once it goes, it goes.

[B]

I mean, the natural disaster stuff, look at North Carolina or look at New Orleans. I mean, it almost. You know what I mean? It was off the rails for so long anyway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, again, that goes back to preparation and being current and competent, being able to be your own first responder.

[A]

Speaking of that, I was happy to see you had Glover back on.

[B]

Yeah, he is on a journey of sorts.

[A]

Hell yeah, he is. I've always liked Mike. It made me happy to see that

[B]

he's gonna be okay. I don't think he's out of the journey yet. He's still litigating some stuff, I think from a custody issue. But yeah, he's gonna have to redefine who he is, which I don't think is a bad thing, man. I don't think having to stop everything that you're doing or have it taken away from you, depending on how it happens, doesn't make it easy. I've reinvented myself in my life so many different times. I think that's good.

[A]

I think so too.

[B]

Yeah. But he seems to be doing well. I mean, he's definitely. He went through a two year valley, that's for sure.

[A]

Oh, I know.

[B]

You know, and people are hitting me up like, why aren't you commenting about Mike? Mike? Maybe because he's dealing with. With minors that are involved and there's a court process and I'm gonna allow

[A]

the process for the reason I just want to get on the ocean and just disappear for a while.

[B]

Are you guys gonna have Starlink because.

[A]

Yes. So. Yeah.

[B]

You're not gonna disappear.

[A]

No, no. Like, obviously I'll be connected, but our. One of our team. One of the things that we decided as a team is no scrolling social media while we're out there. What's the penalty if you're caught overboard shark food? Right? No, we want to. We want to document the journey and share the journey, but we're not going to consume any social media while we're out there.

[B]

You know, you don't have to hand row a boat across the Pacific to Participate in this right now.

[A]

You don't have to fly in your wingsuit from that mountaintop. You didn't do it.

[B]

Take a guess where that is.

[A]

I found across the street.

[B]

No China.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I told Michael to find an awesome image finds me an image from in China. I was like, give me Glacier National Park. This is like Fujo. We, you know, park in China. Admit it's a pretty. It's a good image. But I mean, be better than Chinese mountains.

[A]

There's a mountain in China called Choyu. Have you ever heard of that? That?

[B]

No.

[A]

It's the easiest of the 8,000ers.

[B]

Is it because it's like this?

[A]

Yes, that's exactly why it's piqued my interest. Because I've always wanted to do a big mountain, but I also don't want to, Pun intended. I don't want to. I don't want to die on K2 or something stupid because I'm just not. I'm not capable of that.

[B]

I have never had the wild hair up my ass for mountaineering at all.

[A]

Have you ever done any mountaineering?

[B]

Not really.

[A]

So I've climbed Rainier five times.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'll tell you what, dude, that kicks your shit in.

[B]

I'm sure it does.

[A]

And it's 14,411ft.

[B]

How long does it take? A couple weeks?

[A]

No, it takes. Well, we do it. We literally walk from base camp up to or from parking lot to base camp from like noon to 5pm that's

[B]

way less than two weeks.

[A]

And then. And then you go to sleep from 5pm to 2am and then you wake up and you summit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Now most teams will take like three or four days to acclimatize.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But my climbing partner was one of the. He's like a high mountaineer doctor, and he lives on mountains and very proficient. So he always just wants to hammer it out. And it's the worst experience of your entire life.

[B]

Why do you do it, bro?

[A]

You know as well as I do, sometimes you have to go do hard.

[B]

Not in a boat.

[A]

Not. Not in a wingsuit.

[B]

I haven't wings. You jumped in a long time.

[A]

Statistically, what's more dangerous, the boat, my rowboat or your helicopter?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I'm going to say your helicopter.

[B]

I don't think there's any stats on this, so I'm going to make it up and say your boat.

[A]

Last time we were in your helicopter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't even know what this guy. You're flying like you're TF160th pilot.

[B]

I was just.

[A]

You shoot way high in the air and then just let the nose fall down. Yeah, you're welcome.

[B]

It's just an egg turn.

[A]

No, it's radical. But then, you know, you remember what you said? It was me and Jason. Jason Redmond in the helicopter. And you said it, like, three times throughout our. We were only in the air for, what, 20, 30 minutes maybe at the most.

[B]

I don't even know what I said or how long we were flying.

[A]

He said, hey, if we crash today, boys, I'm cool with it. I'm like, okay. I don't know what any means by that.

[B]

We'll be all right.

[A]

And then you said, learn how to fly. No, no. And then you said, later. You're like, hey, if we die today on the bird, it's all good.

[B]

Yeah. Hey, I'll be all right.

[A]

So I can take that approach to the ocean. It's all good, bro.

[B]

I think dying in a helicopter crash would be better than drowning in the ocean.

[A]

You think so?

[B]

I think drowning is one of the worst ways to go.

[A]

Supposedly. It's one of the best ways to go. What, you take the air, you. You gulp your water in, and then you're in. Then you're peaceful.

[B]

Yeah. But getting to that point where you gulp your water and I don't think feels very good.

[A]

Oh, don't get me wrong. That's. I do not have the intention of drowning out there. Actually, you know what I'm more concerned about than any type of storm or anything like that is some cargo ship just running over us. That's the big. That's my biggest concern.

[B]

Do you guys have the ability to.

[A]

Or.

[B]

I don't even know if boats do this, but can you transmit out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Signal.

[A]

Come on, dude. You were in the Navy. You don't know what an AIs system is?

[B]

I've been on a boat for 17 days.

[A]

Yes. So I have a AIs system, which is a. Obviously, depending on how much power goes to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dictates how far out your signal gets sent.

[B]

So this.

[A]

So our AIs system help a little bit. Yes. System will alert other boats if they come within three miles of us, and then we will get alerted if they come. Obviously if they come within three miles of us. So that gives us that amount of time to see where they're at, what their current plot, their trajectory is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then also get on the radio with them because we have a VHF radio on the boat.

[B]

And then shoot flares at them.

[A]

And then shoot flares at them. But the thing is it's like you would think like oh I got three miles but when those boats are going 30 knots they're on top of you before you fucking know it.

[B]

Why not just detach from social media before you go? So in January Chad Wright was on in December and we did a January challenge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I got my screen time down to like 40 some minutes per day and I limited myself. I think it was like eight minutes on social media per week. Never felt better.

[A]

Really? Yeah.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

Are you sucked back into doom scrolling now? Really it's, it's sustainable.

[B]

So like when I post on social media I do it from my laptop so I'm still able to access it.

[A]

That's the trick it it well you

[B]

are way more intentional with what you're doing because the isn't sitting there like a thumb and also by looking at the screen times before that like two to three hours per day. Like this is an actual part time job that I am not getting any benefit from.

[A]

No bro, that's like any pay self admittingly that's probably my biggest discipline flaw.

[B]

So why not just shoot? No.

[A]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going out on the ocean specifically.

[B]

It sounds like it.

[A]

To detach from social media, that's just something. Why not Before Michael, look up the McLean Brothers.

[B]

What do you think would happen in your life if you didn't pay attention to any of the BS? Oh bro, doesn't that steal the power

[A]

from the elites 100 it does.

[B]

So your behavior right now is supporting the elites.

[A]

I go back and forth on son of a. I don't know what the right answer is because. Yeah. So they, they just completed Peru to Australia. Yeah.

[B]

Wait a minute. If there's only three of them that's it. Why isn't there somebody resting right now?

[A]

That three of them, that was it. Three brothers and they went from Peru to Australia.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we've been talking to them on social media which is. That's one thing that's cool about social media. You connect with the coolest people around the world. Right. And it was actually one thing they said is like make sure because you will have Starlink you will have the ability to be sucked into the rest of the world's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Detach, be very intentional and be present for the journey.

[B]

But that is good advice for life.

[A]

That's good advice for life for sure. No bro, I, I mean I, I actually wonder if I'm schizophrenic sometimes because I feel like I have Two voices in my head.

[B]

Would you like an outsider's opinion on that?

[A]

Yeah. Not yours, right?

[B]

Yeah. 100.

[A]

So I go back and forth, bro, because my jiu jitsu academy is thriving.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

My family is healthy. We're moving into a phase where we're acquiring more wealth than we've ever had in our life.

[B]

What are you gonna do with it?

[A]

What my. What I want to do with it is I want to be able to build generational stability for my family.

[B]

Is that through investments or, like, through property properties? Yeah, that's.

[A]

That's what I want to do. Well, dude, this could be a whole nother conversation, because you were just talking about how, like, the ultra rich and the ultra wealthy and, like, we've kind of put that class of people almost in a. In, like, a negative bubble. Right.

[B]

They're definitely.

[A]

Rich people are bad. Right.

[B]

Well, there's rich people. Like, there's wealth. Like, to me, wealth is when I can say no and do what I want to with my time. 100 and I am finally getting to that place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And honestly, I don't give a. What it says in the bank account, because once you pass that, I don't understand. Probably because I have no. Like, if you gave me a billion dollars. Don't get me wrong. On. And I've put this out there many times hoping that, like, if there's a multi billionaire, I'm willing to take a billion dollars to research what happens to somebody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If they, like. And you can help, I'll split it with you. We'll do it together. We'll do a double blind.

[A]

It will be, like, on that show, like, the lotto. Ruin the lottery, ruined my life. Double blind will be degenerates. Maybe heroin, methamphetamine.

[B]

I don't think you and I would be. But I definitely would probably, like, drive the block to jiu jitsu in a Bugatti or. You know what I mean? But I. To me, wealth is the ability to do what I want to with my time. Those people with that level of wealth are so far beyond that. I actually think there should be a different word for that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Because that is a category of people. I mean, some of those people, it's like they have the Boeing business jet for the international travel, and then there's the several Gulfstream G8 hundreds. Like, that's a level of. That's not even wealth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ridiculous. Well, but I also don't hate it. Depending on how they acquired it, you know, But I. I don't think people with wealth are bad by any stretch. I think you should be rewarded for your effort.

[A]

I'm finding a lot of people, and I'm. You know how life is like, as you put yourself out there, more doors open up and you connect with more people, especially, like, the lifestyle you're living. I've connected with a lot of people over the last year that are exceptionally wealthy, and I'm finding it's like, oh, they're not this elite class of people that are pieces of. Like, that class of people does exist, but there's a lot of people that are pursuing wealth, that are good people that want to help, that want to give, that want to help, like, their communities prosper. And we're moving into a phase of our life where we're trying to acquire a massive amount of wealth. And I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't think that's a bad thing.

[B]

What's massive? What to you? What's a massive amount?

[A]

5mil, I would say a million dollars annually, I think. Yeah, I think a million dollars annually,

[B]

which nets you about 450,000.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Stop it.

[B]

People don't realize to have a million dollars, you need to make, like, 2.2.

[A]

Well, so I'll tell you the story. I went to. I went to this event and just randomly connected with this guy. Come to find out he's a wealth coach. Now, when you hear the term wealth coach, your immediate. Like Derek Moneyburg, it's kind of like, yeah, like, oh, gross. He's gonna teach you how to get wealthy, right? Well, his whole goal in life is to make as many people wealthy as he can. That's his goal. He said they refer to the. The ultra rich as the top 1%. And he goes, in my life, I want it to be the top 2%. He goes, I want to bring a lot of people into wealth, and there's enough to go around. He goes, that's a misconception. If you want to put in the effort and learn how to do it, it. There's enough to go around. And so. And he's very different from, like, our. Like the. The worlds that we grew up in is like, burn the candle at both ends. Nobody cares. Work harder. Like, I'll sleep when I'm dead. Like, all that kind of stuff. He goes, bro, I like to be comfortable. I like my house to be warm. I like to wake up when I want to. I like there to be good food in the fridge. And then he goes, but then every once in a while, I have to check myself and make sure that I. I'm still a savage and I've not become a pussy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'll go sign up and do like a 2 or 300 mile race. And I was like, oh, you're one of them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it was actually intriguing to me because he has everything that he wants. He actually just. We're actually really good friends now. His name's Jeremy Newsom. He just went. Spent five days in a cave alone in a dark cave. Blackout retreats. Have you heard of that?

[B]

Yeah. And so that's called people having too much time.

[A]

But, no, he teaches a philosophy through trading on the stock market that generates a lot of money. And he's a jiu jitsu guy. He's a white belt, and he's not trying to get a black belt, but he dabbles in jiu jitsu enough to speak the language. And he goes, I want you to think of the stock market as open mat. And he goes, you go to open mat, you step on the mats. And he goes, There's 50 white belts. That's all that showed up today. And he goes, and you're a purple belt. How's open mat gonna go for you? And it's like, yeah, I'm gonna do whatever I want for most of the day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, it might. You might have a hiccup here or there, or this white belt happens to be a collegiate wrestler, and he can take you down. Right. There's still going to be little hiccups. But he goes, my philosophy on trading is, I'm teaching people how to be purple belts in the stock market. He goes, 99 of traders are white belts.

[B]

Oh, I bet the stats show that. I think, like 98% of individual investors lose money.

[A]

They lose money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so he's. And my wife has been under his tutelage for a year now. And I'm not saying this to boast or act like, oh, it's just the truth. My wife makes between one and $2,000 a day.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Trading. And that's it, bro. And it's like, if you can. If you can create something to be able to supplement your income. And rich people tell you there's two ways to do it. It's real estate and the stock market. That's it.

[B]

Or getting it passed down from generations.

[A]

Oh, yeah, of course. Right.

[B]

Forget the big lie, which is called inheritance.

[A]

And it's like, I have a jiu jitsu academy and you have a coffee shop. And like, we're doing these things, and I'm not saying they can't generate a good amount of money. I'm making more money now through jiu jitsu than I ever made in law enforcement, so I'm not complaining at all. But if you want to break through to that next phase, because, bro, look at how much houses cost these days.

[B]

I know.

[A]

How are our children going to be able to afford a house? And so one of my goals is to be able to amass enough wealth to be able to set my children up without having to be super concerned about all the shit that everybody's concerned about. And we live in a time too that we almost demonize that. Like if you hand your money down to your children, it's like, oh, silver spoon. And. But all the elites are doing that. From unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena, from comedy gold to relationship fails. Amazon Music's got the most ad free

[B]

top podcasts included with prime.

[A]

Because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is, well, nothing. Download the Amazon music app today. So why not? Why not set your children up for success? If there's a problem, I think it's

[B]

about how you do it. I think the how matters.

[A]

Agreed. Agreed.

[B]

Yeah. The best example or analogy I ever heard of money was from a buddy of mine named John Welborne. He played professional ball for I think over a decade. Offensive lineman, huge man. Probably the quickest dude I've ever seen over 30 yards.

[A]

It's like, does your jiu jitsu work on him?

[B]

He is now. Yeah, it has the last time I roll with him. But he trains down with Sanjay in at six Blades down in Austin. And athletic man, picks up new techniques. Well, kind of strong, but you want to talk about a place where you're. And this is the way he described it. He said, money is an amplifier. If you are a good person, money gives you the ability to do more good. But if you're a douchebag, it gives you the ability to do more bad 100%. And he watched people koth from poverty to wealth overnight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the NFL, which it shocks me at least when he was in he was talking about no financial literacy programs whatsoever. And they only.

[A]

Can you imagine. Imagine when you were. We were 22 years old in the Ranger Regiment SEAL teams and someone gave you $10 million. Just imagine.

[B]

Yeah, just spend 12.

[A]

Debauchery.

[B]

I would spend 12. But you know, they get their salary. Right. And let's say you're on a multi million dollar contract per year. You only get paid during the season and your agent takes some and he, again, his story is not mine. Were was like lockers next to guys who. It was their goal to spend their entire check before they got the next one the next week. And then in the off season, they're selling their chains and cars just to try to survive.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, like it's. You know. And he said he legitimately saw. I do believe there are some incredibly wealthy people out there that are 100 trying to do amazing things with their money. I don't think they make the news as much as those that fall into the category the pejor, because the elites definitely seems to be a pejorative term who are out there and who are basically trying to serve themselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just don't know how interconnected it is, man. I mean, do these guys is what I always seem like? Oh, yeah. They gingerly touch the tips of their yachts in Monaco at midnight on March 45th. You know what I mean? And they get their broads. It's like, I don't. I don't think that that's real. And I don't think society benefits by portraying it like that either. I think it's a little bit of a cop out to say the elites control everything and there's nothing that we can do. I just don't think it's. I have no data to support that. It's not like that. But I don't have enough data to show that it is. Is either.

[A]

Kind of feels like it is, though.

[B]

I think it can feel like that, but it also depends on where you consume your information.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Does it feel like that? If you were to shut down your social media and just live your life in Washington with your family and your jiu jitsu and prepping for the row, I bet you wouldn't feel it at all.

[A]

Let me ask you this. Do you think. Do you think public school is intentionally putting out incompetent people or do you think the system's just broken?

[B]

I would trend more towards the latter.

[A]

Is that what you think?

[B]

What would be the benefit of putting out incompetent people?

[A]

Just making worker bees that do what they're told. Yeah, but that's because they don't teach any. Like, literally what we were just talking about. It's not sustainable anytime in school. Were we ever taught about financial literacy?

[B]

No. And I've said this. I mean, the most important class I ever took in school was typing. If I put that in English, I enjoyed English. And typing was actually just a skill that I never would have bet in the moment. I Would use it almost every day. But who could have forecast this, you know, the digital future. No, I mean, I. I talk with my kids about taxes and teach my kids about taxes or developing their credit, you know, like. And hey, time for you to get your first car. Let's go in there. I'm going to cosign with you and your name's going to be on this and you're going to like that. Those are the classes I wish were taught in school. Here's how you balance a checkbook. Even though in the day, this day and age, I don't know if anybody actually balances. No, they don't. But it's like, I'm sure there's a digital version of that. Like, hey, here's Quick books or whatever. Right. Like, here's how you manage the money you have. It used to be that way. God, I still see the old ladies at the grocery store.

[A]

I know, I'm like, can I just pay for you?

[B]

Exactly. You have a singular banana and some half. You're writing a check and you're the sweetest old lady ever. My God.

[A]

Yeah, dude, since I've been to Montana, I checked out at. I went to two different stores and the person in front of me and the cashier knew each other by name. It's like, oh, this is like literal small town shit. Hi, Betty. How you doing?

[B]

1.1 million people.

[A]

It doesn't feel very small town then.

[B]

No, in all of Montana.

[A]

Oh, all of Montana.

[B]

Like the entire state.

[A]

Okay, so everybody knows everybody's name then?

[B]

No, no, no, not at all. That would be impossible, I think. Well, it depends. I mean, maybe you were catching people who are deep, repeat customers. But. But no, dude, the educational system. Think about this. If it was intentionally designed to fail, at some point that system would consume itself.

[A]

Well. Well, it's consuming more money and people are getting dumber. And that's data. Like test scores are going down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the amount of money that we're throwing towards education is going up. So you want to talk about more things that's not sustainable. That's not sustainable.

[B]

But is that because it is by design or the system is just incompetent? To go back to what you're saying, the system is now so big, our population is so large that we just. We need to redo the system.

[A]

I think we need to redo the system.

[B]

I agree. I. I think it's more as a

[A]

metric of this and not have any leering centers.

[B]

Well, don't get me wrong, there's definitely some Corrupt politicians. Does it do anybody any benefit to say all politicians are corrupt? I think it's really dangerous to paint with a broom. I think in that stuff, you have to be precise.

[A]

Well, I think, like, all of these different issues really incentivize people to get on one team or the other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel like nobody's team is really looking out for the people. That's kind of where I've landed.

[B]

Do you think they ever were?

[A]

No. Did you look at, like, stuff from literally, like, the. The. The Founding Fathers, and they're like, the democracy is lost. And then that's like.

[B]

There's, like.

[A]

That's, like, people in the United States. That's like a year after the democracy is lost, and it's like. Or the republic is lost. I apologize. I hate it when everybody calls it a democracy because it's a democratic republic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We use a democratic system in our republic. Take it easy, Greg. You don't have to get on the Internet and yell at everybody.

[A]

You know what's crazy is, like, when you can see these people for who they are. Like, have you seen all of Gavin Newsom's little, like, news bits where he's going around and trying to appease black people? And it's like, yeah, it's so, on its surface, disgusting. How are people not seeing it for what it is?

[B]

I think they do.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. He'll probably be our next president.

[B]

That is more to me. People are dogmatically captured by being a part of their team. And even when they don't believe, so much of their identity is captured by their team. Team that they have to go with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I don't think there is definitely a cohort of people on both sides who believe at a deep level that everything their team says is correct. But I think almost everybody else is like, man, I'm not so down with that aspect, but I also don't want to piss off my neighborhood or my friends or my social circle, so I'm not gonna say any.

[A]

I can tell you what, stepping off of a team actually feels pretty good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I'm not on Trump's team. I'm not on the Republican team anymore, and I got you off of it. Just everything he says is like, hey, whatever.

[B]

Give me one example of something crazy.

[A]

He said, oh, I'll tell you exactly. I'll tell you exactly.

[B]

We could probably pull up something.

[A]

From today, we're gonna start giving. Giving American families. Was it twenty five hundred dollars each for the. Because of how much Money we've made on the tariffs?

[B]

I think so, yeah.

[A]

We're going to abolish the irs. We're going to do this. We're going to do. It's like, dude, just shut the up. Like, if you're going to do it, do it. And if you're not, stop saying you're going to do it. And that happened over and over and over, bro. When my boat got delivered to the port of Seattle, I got an email and it said, the tariff on this vessel is $12,983.

[B]

Where'd you buy it from?

[A]

London. And pay it ASAP. Once your tariff is paid in full, you can pick your boat up.

[B]

I don't think you understand tariffs, Greg. They're not paid by Americans. They're paid by businesses.

[A]

And it's like, okay, you want to go on a big adventure, you better shell out 12 grand to the government, dude. These people, like, it's. It's completely. And you want to know what they called my boat? A pleasure craft.

[B]

I agree with that.

[A]

I said it's a pain. Crap, dude. No, no. Pleasure is going to be experienced some people.

[B]

And I'm going to put you in this category. Experience pleasure through pain.

[A]

I don't know, man. I'm just. I'm just really sick and tired of. I mean, I'm sure you've experienced this, being a business owner. Have you had to deal with local government shit? Just absolute asinine bullshit.

[B]

When we were in that planning phase during COVID which, by the way, if Covid ever comes back, Covid 26 or 27, whatever it is, do not initiate a construction process slightly before that. You have to finish it during. Dude, we were getting lumber quotes that were good for 24 hours. It could go up 40% one day, down 60%. And they're like, whatever there was. The shop almost didn't open on time because we were waiting for one electrical panel that connected the street power to inside of the building, and there was only one supplier. They're like, yeah, we don't know. I'm like, that answer is wholly unacceptable. When are we going to have this? When we give it to you.

[A]

Well, I'm almost to the point where I'm just going to say, you guys and do whatever I want because I opened my jiu jitsu Academy. It was CrossFit it at first, and we opened it at 2011. When we opened it, we got our business license, we paid business and operating taxes. We did everything that you're supposed to do. And then in 2022. The county is like, I got a cease and desist order because my business is an illegal operation. That's what they called it. Illegal operation. I'm teaching Jiu Jitsu. They're like, you can't have classes this big in the. The current zoning, so you have to shut down. And it's like, well, how big can my classes be? Well, there's not an official. There's not this, there's not that. Right? And so they said, but yet I

[B]

have to close, even though there's not.

[A]

I told him.

[B]

I was like.

[A]

I had a meeting with him. I said, verb. I've worked for the government for a long time. Verbiage is very important. You told me I have to shut my academy down because it's getting a little too big. What the does that mean? Yeah, my wife squeezing my knee under the table like. Like, calm down. Right? But they didn't back down until. Guess what happened.

[B]

Social media.

[A]

Social media and my podcasts. And it's like, I have a big enough following that they started getting a bunch of. And they called me and they said, hey, Greg, like, we don't want to fight with you anymore. I said, I never wanted to fight with you. I just want to teach Jiu Jitsu. And you guys said, I have to shut down because I'm getting too big. And so a bunch of back and forth. And they said, okay, we're going to give you what's called a conditional commercial permit. So then you can. It can basically be as big as you want it. Okay. What's that process look like? Bro, it's been 24 months, and we're probably a hundred grand into this. What? A parking lot? We have to do a parking lot assessment. 40 grand. 40 grand to do to assess our parking lot.

[B]

That sounds like what it should.

[A]

And it took them two days. What other. What other entity can do two days worth of work and give you a $40,000 bill? The government can because do that from

[B]

Google Earth and, like, take five minutes.

[A]

That's exactly what they fucking do. All of it. All their engineering, all of their. Do you know what? We're in the phase we're in right now, the landscaping phase.

[B]

That sounds fun.

[A]

And, bro, we had to hire an engineer because once they came out and did a parking lot assessment. You ready for this shit? You have to have a parking slot to shrubbery ratio, bro. Are you out of your mind, bro? I spent five years parking.

[B]

P.S. what's the acronym for that?

[A]

And it's like, so. So I told Jenny, I Was like, no, these people. I'm not doing this. Body armor, AR15, come shut me down.

[B]

Like, did you know there are a few options in between that?

[A]

Well, no, so. And my wife's like, will you just please, like, for the first time in our life, our business is exciting, doing exceptionally well. Let's just play this game and get through it. I'm like, fine, I'll go hands off then, because I can't be around this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, wetland this, wetland that. It's like, it's always something to pull money from me.

[B]

We had that. That what you're describing. So we're in the design phase, and we had to start. We had to get all the permits and all this stuff, and they had. The city had to agree upon the design of the building. Then there was going to be another building in the. The open lot, which we'll still probably do something with, and it was going to have a garage door facing the street. And we get on the call with the city planners. This guy would not turn his camera on, by the way. Black screen.

[A]

Yeah, of course. Telling me, probably jerking off to gay porn.

[B]

That is a assumption that you can make, you know? Yeah. It's just David Carradine. God, why do you got to take me there?

[A]

It's your favorite place. I know.

[B]

It's where I live most of the time.

[A]

So they didn't want the garage door facing a certain.

[B]

He said that the. The part of town that the shop was going to be in wasn't zoned for that. I left that call, walked one block away, and took a picture of exactly the garage door that he was saying that I couldn't have. And they basically, like, yeah, but you can't. You still can't have one. I'm like, well, what about that building? Oh, that's. That's on the. It's on a different street.

[A]

It's on the other side.

[B]

It's like, I'm aware it's on the other side of the street. Is it zoned differently? No. Why do they get to have one? Oh, they probably built that at a time where, you know, the zoning was different. I'm like, but aren't they. Whatever.

[A]

Well, so, bro, like. And not that we're special, that we spent our youth in combat zones or whatever, but it's definitely not special because.

[B]

But it's like, this guy doesn't know that.

[A]

No, I'm just saying, though, like, so much of our life went to supporting this government, and then when you're on the other side of it, as an entrepreneur. You realize this government has their head up their own ass. Like, here's another true story.

[B]

They had it up their ass when they sent us over there, though.

[A]

Yes, they did.

[B]

You know,

[A]

so when I was initially building my gym, they said, hey, we've determined the footprint that you want to build your gym. The 3,000 square foot footprint is wetland. I said, well, it's a lawn, and I mow it with a Craftsman riding lawnmower. I don't understand how that qualifies as a wetland. We found buttercups growing out there, and that's a wetland flower, bro.

[B]

This is a tree only a wetland flower.

[A]

That's what they say. Like, they have these little gotcha moments and you can't fight them. This is a true story, bro. I was a deputy U.S. marshal at the time, right? So I was. Oh, I was a fed. You know, I was. I was in the government myself, but I was part of a different team. And so they said, hey, we found buttercups growing. And if you want to build your gym on this 3,000 square foot footprint, you have to do what's called purchase land from our wetland offset bank.

[B]

Oh, this is like a carbon footprint.

[A]

So check this out. They said, if you want to destroy 3,000 square feet of wetland, you have to purchase 3,000 square feet of protected wetland from the county. And then we ensure that that footprint stays protected and it offsets the wetland you're destroying and that, bro. Okay, yeah, yeah. So this is. That is exactly what I was thinking. And I said, okay, I can see

[B]

in a weird world where somebody is like, yeah, this totally makes sense. It'll be an equal exchange.

[A]

This is what I told them verbatim, bro. I said, okay, maybe I'm not smart enough to understand the math, but right now we have my wetland that we're going to destroy, and your wetland is going to be protected. So we have two wetlands. I pay you money. Now we get to destroy one of the wetlands. Now we're left with one. That's not called preservation. That's literally called extortion. And I said, so this is where I'm going. We're no longer going to work through this process with you guys. I say, As a deputy U.S. marshal, I work on casework with the FBI on a regular basis. This meets every criteria of extortion, and we will be looking into this from a federal level. I got a call in two hours and they said, we ran by your project, by our supervisor. And our supervisor agreed to waive all wetland offset fees.

[B]

Today's podcast is brought to you by Element. Let me ask you if any of these things sound good to you. Driving, increased energy production, sharpening your focus and clarity, boosting recovery and sleep quality, and protecting against cramping. I'm a hard yes on all those, but also I want to work on my hydration game. This is where Element comes in. This is one of the boxes that you can order and if you do, it comes with 30 packets. And I'll. I'll show you what's in them here in a second or show you the size of the packet. Each one of these bad boys is a thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, and 60 milligrams of of magnesium. You're really working on your electrolyte game. I've talked about this a bunch. The difference in how I feel with my recovery. Before, Rob, who was one of the co founders and used to be one of my Jiu jitsu training partners, exposed me to this product. And then after, the best analogy that I have, if you're a fan of movies and the old Tron movie where they took their disc off their back and they dipped it in some water and they started drinking out of it and they started glowing brighter. That's what it feels like. I get it. That's a goofy analogy. And for, for younger people, you're not going to understand what I'm saying, but that is what I feel like. It feels like you can almost have it coursing through your veins. So I showed you the box earlier. This little packet's what's inside of the box. These things are super travel friendly. I have my backpack on the table that's out of frame, but I always have some of these in my backpack, often my fanny pack. I'll do one gallon Ziploc bags full of these when I travel, especially to Costa Rica. But you could also get these now in bubbly sparkling water. They make 16 and 12 ounce. The 16 ounces have the 1260 sodium, potassium, magnesium. The 12 ounces have half of that. And so it's a way that you can cut or titrate. I finally had some of the 12 ounces show up at my house, so I think they're available for sale now. But the point of all this is, is you can kind of get it in wherever you want to. My suggestion, head over to drinkelementee.com ClearedHot one of the things you can do there is get a free sample pack so you can sample the flavors because everybody likes different stuff. But if you're ready to absolutely tackle your electrolyte and hydration game, element is the way to do it. They have the flavors that you want and the delivery mechanism that is the most convenient or pleasurable for you. Drinklement.com Cleared hot. Back to the show.

[A]

Criminals, bro. That's what they all are. They're criminals. They're mobsters. It's mob tactics going around saying, pay up, pay up. Like, dude, my, my.

[B]

So here's the question.

[A]

No, hold on though. My parking lot to shrubbery ratio.

[B]

Hey, yeah, how is it I have

[A]

to buy $20,000 worth of pyramidalis trees and rhododendrons, bro, $20,000 because some idiot in the county will take my business license away if I say you people

[B]

look how that's gonna look dope out there.

[A]

Yeah, it already looks pretty dope.

[B]

Talk to Leah. She'd be fantastically. She'd be like $20,000 of rhododendron.

[A]

Well, maybe she can come out and I can fucking pay her to do it.

[B]

She'd never come back. She would be sitting there communing with the fucking rhododendrons for days. Do you think that the person that you were talking on the phone with thought of themself as a criminal, or is this just a normal person constrained by the requirements of their job?

[A]

Everybody is just doing their job. That's all they're doing. And, bro, that's why I got so pissed off in 2020 when all the cops are saying, I'm just doing my job. Well, by the method in which you're executing your job, you're violating people's constitutional rights. So maybe you should say, hmm, I know I'm just doing my job, but it's fucking people over. Maybe you shouldn't do that. And that can be all the bullshit Covid arrests, or that can be making people buy $20,000 worth of rhododendrons. Like, people have to fucking pull their head out of their ass and be

[B]

like, hey, I'm on board with it, forcing you to buy rotodendrons. I'm actually relatively glad this is happening to you. I don't know what type of tree that is, bro.

[A]

We've been friends, but you've always told me two things. And that is you want my boat to sink.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Like, regard. Even my last boat used to text me. I hope that things every time just random.

[B]

Every time that you would post a picture, I would put that in your comments.

[A]

And now. And then. The other thing is, you side with the local government on rhododendron enforcement on this issue.

[B]

Yes. I don't always side with the local government, but I am pleased that you are, for you are in a rhododendron crisis right now.

[A]

And, bro, there's a part of me that wish they would just say, just bend over and fucking take it, or we're shutting your shit down. Because that's what they're doing. If they did its body armor AR15 time.

[B]

And what does that mean? You're going to patrol your property or are you going to go to their property?

[A]

We'll see how it plays out. Well, but here's the thing. That's crazy. We were willing to die for a lot of dumb.

[B]

I didn't want to, though.

[A]

No, I didn't want to either. Yeah, I didn't want to either, but we were willing to. Fuck. You got shot for this, right?

[B]

Get shot for this, though, man, I got shot for the people I was with that day. I mean, I never once thought about the bigger picture.

[A]

Of course not. We couldn't, bro. And also, like, we. We only knew what we knew at the time. Yeah. Right.

[B]

But I never thought about geopolitics. I was so concerned I was going to fuck up and do something that would cause somebody to get hurt or killed.

[A]

That.

[B]

I mean, honestly, that's what consumed most of my thoughts. I just wanted to do a good job. And I cared incredibly deeply about the people that were around me.

[A]

I know, but I think about how we were literally willing to die on. On a moment's notice. Like, every patrol, there's IDs, there's ambushes, it's, like, up happening constantly. As I did two years in Ramadi, and that was, like, my time. I got to experience what real combat was like. And then you come home and these people will threaten your families, threaten your businesses, threaten your livelihood. Bro, if I lose my Jiu Jitsu academy, like, I'll be struggling to feed my family. Yeah, maybe until. That would be a true statement up until maybe the last six months because of this other stuff we're doing.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But it's like, okay, you're gonna steal my ability to raise my kids, and I'm not willing to go to war for that. Like, what are we willing to go to war for? And it's like, I think men need to have some hard lines and some. Some hard looks in the mirror and be like, dude, how much longer are we gonna let these extort money from us? Constantly.

[B]

So what's your solution, though? Stop paying in body armor, AR15. Also, you don't seem to be including a helmet in this. Do you not care about safety?

[A]

I do have an old Mitch helmet that I could probably use.

[B]

Upgrade, dude, get some bump helmet action. Where are you gonna put your nods?

[A]

No, I honestly think the right answer is probably. I think the right answer is for everybody to just voluntarily withdraw from their system. And how many people did you see saying that over the last, like, three or four months ago?

[B]

I will say I've definitely noticed people saying that, and the number of people

[A]

saying it have increased, but this is what I say when I talk about on my podcast. I'm not going to publicly say I'm withdrawing from the system until I'm ready to die. Because it's, like. It's a cool thing to say. It's a cool thing to tweet. Are you really gonna do it or not? Because if you're not gonna stand behind those words with. With everything that you are, then don't say it. It's a cool thing to say. It's a much harder thing to do. And so I think if enough people can just say, like, hey, we're not playing your game anymore. We're not giving you half of our paycheck. We're not paying you $20,000 so you can tell us where to plant Rotot Dendrins, you. But if it happens in ones and twos. If it happens in ones and twos, you just get stomped out. But if you could get a real movement. And, hey, if you could shut down every time I'm on the show, if

[B]

you could shut down the flow of money.

[A]

They have to respect that. They have to. Because what can they do? And you want to talk about tinfoil hats.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As soon as a lot of people started saying, like, I don't. I don't think I'm going to pay taxes this year, we saw another huge wave of protests, and it's kind of

[B]

like you're talking about, like, the Minneapolis.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What are your thoughts on that? From a previous law enforcement officer?

[A]

Oh, bro. I think ICE is very inept, and I think they don't have proper training. I think. I think both. I second.

[B]

Shooting up from my.

[A]

I think both Shooter patrol. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It looked like an ad to me.

[B]

Well, the guys. The second. Are you talking about the one in the front of the vehicle, Alex?

[A]

Pretty. However you say that he. No, no, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The one in the vehicle was definitely not an ad. That was an intentional shooting.

[B]

And I think the several rounds that may have followed up the ad were not accidental, though. I don't think you have nine ads in a row.

[A]

I think an ad is followed by shoot, where I shoot.

[B]

Potentially, for sure.

[A]

This is what I say about. I think from a legal standpoint, those guys will walk. I think legally they are covered.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I think from a moral and ethical standpoint, I would not have felt comfortable taking those shots. I mean, as a law enforcement officer, one of the most dangerous things you can do is stand in front of a vehicle that. That's preached from day one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, I'm not here to necessarily, like, be the armchair quarterback, but I have a buddy who's an ICE team leader in Minneapolis, and he told me, like, text me directly. He goes, bro, it's such a show out here. Most of the agents don't understand tactics. Most of the agents aren't very good at their jobs. They're just rushing people out here and putting us in teams, and it's an absolute shit show. And he said, another thing that's happening is they're saying, hey, we're green lighted. We're green light. Go out and fucking make your arrest. Actually, cancel all operations. Everybody pull it in. Actually, no, go back out. Green light. Actually, no, shut down all operations. And he goes, bro, it happened multiple times a day. Imagine trying to fucking have a op tempo. And that's what's happening. And then also, like, all the propaganda around it, it's like, okay, the left says these people are just taking innocent people that have been here for 20 years outside of their home and deporting them. And then the right says, no, they're only going after murderers and the worst of the worst. What's the truth?

[B]

Neither of those things.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the truth is, because here's the interesting. Here's the interesting thing about. I've realized that the interesting thing about this dichotomy between left and right is the root of both groups are trying to come from a place of empathy.

[B]

Oh, that's interesting.

[A]

Don't you think? It's like, hey, we don't want to see these families getting ripped apart and these people being sent home that are. That have been here for 25 years. Like, okay, you can kind of feel empathy for that. Right? And then the right's like, no, we don't want these dangerous people that are harming our communities and hurting, killing girls and all this, like, from a place of empathy and even the transgender stuff. Right? Like, trying to validate people's feelings and. And help Them become the person they believe they are. Like, in its foundation, I think they're trying to be empathetic. And then on the other side, the right side, it's like, no, no. Empathy is not allowing children to be mutilated and allowing 11 year olds to make decisions that's going to negatively impact them the rest of their life. And I think if we could come together and realize, like, oh, maybe we both want what's best for people, we're just not seeing eye to eye on it. Is there hope for that? Is it even possible? I don't know, man.

[B]

I hope so because I don't like talk of things like civil war. Like really, you want to, you want to bang it out in a cul de sac with your neighbor because of a different political sign. It's, that's the one thing.

[A]

Like, it's very, it's romanticized. Just there's a part of it that's like, ah, finally you can do whatever the we want. Right? But the other side of it is like, go live in Ramadi for two years. I remember someone, someone sent me an email, a family member back home. It's like, hey, when you guys are like off duty or whatever, can you like go eat at local restaurants and stuff? I said, if I went to a restaurant in Ramadi, 100 chance you're getting killed.

[B]

Or they're gonna try at least.

[A]

Yeah, they're, they're definitely gonna try.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't want that life for my kids. Were to go to the grocery store, well, there wouldn't be grocery stores. Right? But to go anywhere, it's going to take an advance, it's going to take a security element. It's going to take all of this stuff. Like, I don't want that for my children to have to live. I just wonder if it's eventually going to be required. I don't know. And I'm not living in a. The biggest thing is, is like, I'm not living in a place of fear year. I think if you come to a point in your life where it's like, if the wheels fall off and the old me has to step up, okay, so be it. Or I figure out how to make my business thrive and my wife becomes better at trading and we build that generational wealth also cool. I don't want to, I don't want

[B]

to fight other Americans, man. That's what's lost in all this, the Civil War talk. We're not talking about some existential enemy that is. It's like, yeah, your Jersey is red and that one's blue, but they're both united under the same country. I don't want to bang it out with American citizens, man. I don't want to see other American citizens doing that either.

[A]

And it won't be like this romanticized novel where we go overthrow the government. It will be chaos in the streets and people eating each other.

[B]

I mean, again, there's a few steps between those. I think you could probably forage for succulents or something. God, I don't want to see that at all, man.

[A]

I think. I think we're gonna see something in our lives and that's not trying to be like.

[B]

I think we've got. I think we're gonna see. And I have no data to support this, but my bet would be people being fed up and just saying no.

[A]

That would be the.

[B]

That's a pretty.

[A]

Take the power back.

[B]

Yeah. And I honestly, I. Maybe the only thing we can do at this point is just not give them money. Well, bro, here's voting doesn't seem to be changing.

[A]

The craziest thing, though. There was a bunch of people down at the Capitol in Olympia, Washington, protesting in support of an income tax.

[B]

Yeah, but you're going to get that regardless of what the topic is.

[A]

And they had some fucking crazy song they were singing about, we're going to make the millionaires, we're going to make them pay their fair share or something. It's like. Like, man, like.

[B]

Like I was saying way over here,

[A]

you would think we could all agree with one thing. The government doesn't spend our money very well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's give them less of it.

[B]

Like I was saying on the way over here, I wouldn't have a problem with more taxes if they could show me definitively that they were a good steward of my money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And had done some real good stuff with it.

[A]

No, I think everybody agrees. It's like. I mean, Andy Frisella talks about on his podcast flat 10%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if our schools were educating our children properly and our streets were clean and safe and there wasn't drugs and homeless and crime, and it's like, okay, I'm. I'm giving this 10 of my income. But look where we live.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Look at our roads. Look at our infrastructure. If that was the case, I don't think you'd have a bunch of people pissed off. But they keep turning up the percentage of how much of our money they take. Take. And then society keeps functioning at a lower and lower capacity. So, you know, we got Two more really important things to talk about.

[B]

What do we got before?

[A]

I don't know. We've probably already been going for, what,

[B]

hour and a half.

[A]

Hour and a half?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. We have a one terabyte drive. We could do days. It just has 12 plus hours over there.

[A]

I tried to. I tried to airdrop this to Michael. Do you see Chad Robichau's foot?

[B]

Yeah. He cut. Well, I was gonna say he cut it off. First off, who loves.

[A]

What are we talking about?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, Michael, he said.

[B]

They said he loves Jiu Jitsu so much, and he was having so many issues with his pinky toe that he cut it off.

[A]

Look. Look at that.

[B]

Take a look, Michael.

[A]

What, was there something wrong with it? He said it broke so many times that the doctor said we're gonna have to put a pin in it. It. Or just lop it. He's like, just take it.

[B]

I believe he reached out to Andy Arabo and got a half face blades and had the doctor use.

[A]

Yes, yes, there's that. That's the picture.

[B]

Yeah. Never lose an opportunity for branding.

[A]

And look, I said, bro, there's blood on the knife.

[B]

Like, yeah, they used it.

[A]

He goes, oh, no. Yeah, that. The. The surgeon was cool. She literally, like, got it in there and cut some flesh with it.

[B]

What would you do with the pinky toe if that was you? Would you.

[A]

I would throw it in the garbage. What in the. Do I want a. Because he had. He showed a picture of, like, his toe in a little jar of formaldehyde. Then it's like you could get like

[B]

a keychain and mess with your kids. But have you seen my toe?

[A]

I don't know what's up with all that stuff, people.

[B]

That was one of the two things that are important to talk about. Chad's out of his mind.

[A]

And then

[B]

your book. My book? Yep. And good God, why'd you bring so many? Oh, they come in boxes of. What is that, five?

[A]

No, no, no. I boxed. Actually, Jennifer Anderson boxed it up in a box of five. I brought you five copies of the book to give one to you.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then give four to whoever you see fit. So I assume one will probably go to Michael and then three to homeless people out on the homeless encampment up the street. Potentially.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Yeah. Here's Greg's book. No, but I mean, we didn't talk about this yet. No, we should, because you're a published author. It's pretty big author and it's cool, bro. And I was literally at Mike Glover's house, and we were sitting in his living room, and it was right when his book Prepared was coming out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he just looked at me, goes, greg, when's your book coming out? I said, I don't. I don't even know what the you're talking about, bro.

[B]

You know, I've had similar conversations with Mike then.

[A]

Yeah. I said, yeah, I don't know. What do you mean when I don't have. Have a book coming out? What do you mean? He goes, in my opinion, men that have lived powerful lives and done cool things, we are obligated to share them with the next generation, because there's a generation coming up that wants to derive value from men that have done cool things. And I was like, all right, I'll write a book. And I literally just like, okay, I'll write a book. But one of my ethos is when. When you say you're going to do something, you have to do, do it.

[B]

I was like, have you ever said you're going to get off social media?

[A]

Yeah, I did.

[B]

What's. What's this ethos thing you were talking about again?

[A]

Well, I said, that's happening in May of 2026.

[B]

You don't have the willpower

[A]

anyways. So I said, okay, I'll write one page a day, and we'll see how long it takes. And that's all I did. I wrote one page a day.

[B]

There's ways around that. You could increase the font to, like, 36.

[A]

Yeah. But now the book is done, bro. And

[B]

is this an AI image?

[A]

I'll tell you what, I'm very proud of that.

[B]

You should be proud of it.

[A]

This is. I told you, like, we worked with editors, and we work with. Yeah.

[B]

So you self publish, which I know nothing about. Walk me through that whole process.

[A]

So if you want to go through a publisher, as you know, they are in charge of distribution. They are in charge of kind of.

[B]

They leverage. Like, I actually feel obligated to do a lot with distribution. Yes, for sure.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Marketing and promotion. I feel obligated to do as much as I can because they took a risk on me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I. And I want to. I want it to be successful because I want to put in the requisite amount of effort because I think it's important.

[A]

Well, and in today's world, publishers are becoming less and less likely to, like, jump behind books unless they believe that they can get a return on their investment.

[B]

I mean, that's not bad business.

[A]

No, it's not a bad business at all. And, and because you have such a large platform and you have the ability to. You're going to be on all these different big podcasts, helping promote it. Like, there's probably going to be a lot of interest behind your book, but for people that don't have that level of reach, publishers are a little more apprehensive. Right? Yeah. And so the other thing is, if you self publish.

[B]

Look at him.

[A]

Yeah, There you go.

[B]

So proud.

[A]

There you go. Port of Seattle police officer.

[B]

Did you polish the best badge before that picture?

[A]

Just like I always thought. True story. I always thought badges were dorky. It's like a little piece of tin. It doesn't really represent anything. It doesn't mean anything.

[B]

Pretty sure it means something.

[A]

It doesn't mean anything, dude.

[B]

As a law enforcement officer.

[A]

Yeah. And a lot of cops rely on that badge. They should be relying on their Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

I don't know if you know this.

[A]

Quit getting me off topic, dude.

[B]

When, when hits the fan, a lot of people just, they see red and they're gaming.

[A]

Yeah. Going back to the self publishing, dude.

[B]

Well, hold on. Speaking of Jiu Jitsu, it's not magic, but how like the Alex Preddy situation. That is a one person control issue. What?

[A]

Because nobody knows what the they're doing in the government.

[B]

But that's what I'm saying.

[A]

Like it's a bunch of dog versus

[B]

a single person who knows how to grapple safely. Getting the person to the ground, removing the firearm from them if they need to. And nobody's dying and nobody's getting hurt, bro.

[A]

I used to like, you can grab a tie clinch and snap them down right into a kimura. And I used to do it. And the cool thing about that position is you can smash their head in if you want to, or you can gently lower them to the ground. And it's going to be 100% dependent on how compliant they are being. And when you overwhelm people, guess what? 99% of the time they become compliant.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like so many cops. And I'm not trying to cast shade of the profession. I was inside of the profession for 10 years. This is just a fact. So many cops are inept at doing their job. If your job is to arrest and detain people, that's Jiu jitsu. You're literally grabbing hold of human beings and you're manipulating them. Even compliant cuffs. If you're gonna grab someone's arm and put it behind their back, like, shouldn't you know how to have a, an element of control. You would think so. And none of them do, bro. None of them do. The. Out of my department. That was like, I think like 120 people. There was like six of us that took training serious. And so, like. Yeah.

[B]

And then you said they would call you when got real. Of course, Greg's not always around, though.

[A]

Dude, there's a handful of cops. There's a handful of cops. Cops like my buddy Muse and another guy named Boros who were like, they're both black belts, very competent grapplers. And so we'd be like, hey, guys, we're gonna have Jiu Jitsu upstairs at five o' clock today open to whoever. Guess who shows up.

[B]

The black belts.

[A]

Handful of black belts, couple purple belts, and you might get like one or two of the younger guys that are like, kind of interested in what's going on. Right. And that's it. And that's lit. That was my experience over the course of 10 years with two different agencies. The only guys that want to tr. Train as part of department training or the guys that already train outside of the department because they, like, they see value in it. It's a hobby of theirs. They like it. And I used to tell cops all the time, like, even if you hate Jiu jitsu, if you hate it, every minute on the mat feels like to you, you owe your family a blue belt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You get a blue belt in Jiu jitsu, you are gonna out grapple the overwhelming majority of the public.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And it's like, do you want to fucking go home at night? Like, do you want to optimize your safety? It's very simple. They don't want to do it.

[B]

Yeah. I can't speak from any level of experience inside of that community, but it doesn't make any sense to me that a job that by definition is probably going to touch people every single day doesn't make that a priority.

[A]

Yes. And the thing is, it's like the, the saying. It's not if it's when. It sounds kind of dramatic, but. But patrol officers get in fights.

[B]

Well, they're touching people.

[A]

That's what you do. And like, I. I always say it with, like, full disclosure, I worked for the port. As far as putting your hands on people goes, it's literally like the least violent agency to be a part of in Washington state. And even I would get in things every now and then. And so it's like, if you don't think grappling is a part of your job, you're out of your mind. And here's the other thing. It's not just your safety that's on the line. It's everybody's safety. Because if you can just control someone, the situation's over. But it's like, you get on the fucking ground, Taser, like all that shit, dude, you were more at risk and the public is more at risk.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And that's what we see over and over and over and over. It's like the George Floyd thing. It's everything, right? And like everything gets politicized where it's like, well, he should have obeyed command commands. Well, I'm going to let you on a little secret. A lot of times when you're a police officer, people don't obey your commands. So knowing that, you could say, he should have done this, he should have done that. We can count on people not obeying your commands. What are you going to do now? And the answer is, most of them want to just rely on tools. Like, my favorite is the collapsible baton. Right? You got like these 5 foot 4 females that weigh a hundred pounds with a collapsible baton. Can you imagine if like a small chicken went shrink with a baton to you?

[B]

I would run away.

[A]

And now you have to, you have to fight her to the death. It's, it doesn't even register as, like,

[B]

I would disclose the distance.

[A]

It's like, your baton is now my baton. Yeah, 100 of the time.

[B]

Well, we would just never get to a range where a baton would be useful. Yeah, I would be inside of that range the entire time.

[A]

And, and here's another thing about batons, because I have a, I have one friend who is like fully geeked out on the baton and went and like, became like a collie stick fighter and all that, right? And dude, I don't have time for all that. I just said, like, I'm kind of over all that, right? But my, I have Jiu jitsu. I do have what I bring to the table. Any type of less than lethal. If you're not trained on it and you're not proficient at it, it's just a liability.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Your baton, your taser, your mace, all that. So I'm so happy to be out of the profession, though. I bet making that video is the best move I ever made my whole life.

[B]

Were you hesitant when you were uploading it?

[A]

No, not, not at all, dude. Even my, my sergeant.

[B]

How about as it started gaining traction where you're like, ooh, didn't think it was going to be this.

[A]

I knew that it was. By the. By the end of the day, I knew that it was probably, yeah, gonna become what it was, what it was becoming. And my sergeant, who's a Stuttgart stud, he was one of the studs of the. The former Ranger, and he was a jiu jitsu guy, right? So, like, we got along very well. And he called me. He's like, oh, Greg, like, probably should take that down. I was like, no way, dude. Yeah, no way. And the writing was on the wall at that point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's like, dude, if you can't say police officers should respect people's constitutional rights as a police officer, then the profession wasn't for me anymore.

[B]

Police officers to me should be the ones who are the most vocally critical of the profession for sure. And I don't mean policing writ large, but if you see something that doesn't meet the standard, you need to be able to talk about that. And that's actually how you maintain the integrity of the occupation. I know why they don't. Because they think, like, I'm shitting in my kitchen, right? It's like, no, if you want the people around here to maintain trust and integrity, you have to call out the fucking bad apples that you see.

[A]

Well, a single police department is just like a microcosm of. Of everything that we see wrong in politics on a macro level. Like, you have all of these little games and the chief and the lieutenants and like, everybody's trying to jockey for position. It's. It's weird. Everybody wants to get promoted and that guy didn't get promoted, but I wanted to just. It's gross, bro.

[B]

Self publishing.

[A]

Self publishing. Let's talk about something important. So.

[B]

Oh, I got you off track because I found a picture of you, the most proud picture you've ever taken. What did you guys call those? Is that your dress blues? What do cops call their.

[A]

I don't even know. Yeah, your dress uniform or whatever, your court uniform. So now that I didn't. I knew that I wasn't going to go through a publisher because I talked to some publishers. And again, like the publishers that I was talking to, if they pick you up and they give you that. What was the word?

[B]

Advance. Your advance, which is short for advance on future sales. It doesn't mean money that you get for free.

[A]

Yeah. Once that contract is signed, like the ones that I were looking at. And Roboshot connected me to his guys, so they're like, in the business. Right. He's a pretty well known author. The split was 85, 15.

[B]

Not in your favor?

[A]

Not in. No, not in my favor.

[B]

Because I was going to say that's pretty dope if it was.

[A]

So, yeah, no. 15%. And it's like, what the fuck's this about? But luckily, that didn't work out. And then I ended up looking into a place called self publishing.com and I got recommended. Do you know who Bedros Coolian is? Okay, Bedros.

[B]

I met him at Origin camp.

[A]

Bedros is cool, man.

[B]

I didn't talk to him that much. I knew who he was. We chatted just a little bit.

[A]

So him and I become friends over the last couple years.

[B]

And so you're part of his mastermind. I saw you up there selling snake oil.

[A]

Dude, quit distracting me. Save all.

[B]

Stop doing crazy.

[A]

Save all your insults for the end. The mastermind wasn't a mastermind. It was a father son event. We can talk about that next. He said, I went this route and I was very happy with it. And what it is, is you basically hire a publishing team and you pay them out of pocket. And they help you with editing, they help you with formatting, they help you with COVID art, they help you set up your Amazon kdp. So your book is direct print on demand.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

People order, managed by Amazon. Managed by Amazon. So people go on Amazon, they click. It literally sends a signal to their printer. It prints it on demand. And, bro, people are getting the book the next day.

[B]

What? They have to have some level of inventory?

[A]

No, zero.

[B]

Dude.

[A]

You want to watch a fascinating video? Watch Amazon's Print on Demand machine work.

[B]

Michael.

[A]

It's literally. It's literally like 150 yards long. And the front of it is just like sheets of paper, thousands of pages of paper being printed. And then it, like, the guy walks down, it's like, all right, this is where the spine gets glued on. This is where the COVID gets adhered.

[B]

And it's just spitting them out.

[A]

And here's the fascinating thing. Every book it spits out is different. As orders come in, people go on Amazon and click, oh, I want Greg's.

[B]

Oh, it's spitting out. Oh, I thought you meant, like, each one of these books had, like. Like a different page.

[A]

No, no, no. Completely different book.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Different size, different font, different color. Every book is different. And the guy says, yeah, as the book gets ordered, it gets. The machine reads the code, and then it makes that book, and then it goes right off the end of the conveyor belt. It goes, like, falls in a package and goes out for delivery. So they are a fulfillment center. And A print shop all in one. And it totally has changed the game. Yeah, that's. That's the video security program on spreadsheets.

[B]

New regulations piling up and audit dread. It's time for Vanta.

[A]

Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place and cuts audit prep by 82%.

[B]

Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals, zero chaos.

[A]

Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it? Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to vanta.com calm. Oh, you're already. Yeah, it's 10 minutes. So it's a long video. You're already halfway through it. But go, try, go to the end, Michael, where they're spitting out.

[B]

It is insane to me.

[A]

There it is. Look at. Let's see.

[B]

There's a different book.

[A]

Yeah, the conveyor belt. The conveyor belt.

[B]

There's a different book.

[A]

Yeah, it just spits out a new book. Whatever is ordered. Isn't that crazy?

[B]

How disruptive to the original? Like some guy was in there putting a pewter little letter.

[A]

I know, right? And so like that has changed the game on distribution because what my team told me is they said, listen, if you're a big name or a big author and you want a presence in Hudson News, in Bar and Noble, that's cool. But statistics still prove that it's something like 95% of book purchases. Like, I bought your book. Guess where I bought it? Not Barnes and Noble. I bought it on Amazon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Most people buy their books on Amazon now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in order to make sure that you don't have any type of inventory problem that you're sitting on or have to like worry about all the different aspects of publishing, just do it yourself.

[B]

Now, I also think those, like Hudson News, those are gatekeeped by the bigger publishers as well. Yeah, I think that they control that territory. But yeah, I don't know how many times I've actually walked by one was looking for a book and they either did have it and the line was too long or didn't have it and I just ended up getting it on Amazon anyway.

[A]

Yeah. So the way that I did the book is because I feel like. I mean, we've been talking about it for two hours. We're in a weird time as a society. And I think the biggest.

[B]

Do you think every generation says that for sure?

[A]

Right, for sure. But I also think this. If you look at the high school gym classes from the 60s and 70s, all the little boys had six packs. When I go pick my kids up at school, half the kids are obese now. Like we definitely have an epidemic of sickness. People not pursuing excellence, people not pushing themselves, people not just being curious and growing and pursuing and setting goals. Like all this stuff that's important part of being a human, I feel like it's lost on society. And so the book is more about that than oh, I was an army Ranger and I went to Afghanistan and blah blah, blah. But if I'm going to tell how to try and move the needle in your life for good, I felt it necessary to give a partial backstory of who I am.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I divided the book up into two parts. It's part one and part two. Part one is my story and it does talk about my military service, my law enforcement service. I have a chapter on Jiu Jitsu because as you know, like, Jiu Jitsu is one of the biggest tools for growth that you will ever experience as a human being. And I said like, for my words to have validity for people that want to buy in to what I have to say, I feel like I have to tell a story about who I am first and then part two is our story. What can you do to try and be a better person? And at the end of the day, the goal of this book is for people to be proud of who they are. I think if people were proud of who they are when they look in the mirror, I think that alone could change the trajectory of our entire country. Because how many people are dissatisfied with themselves, financially dissatisfied with their body, dissatisfied with their relationship? I mean, bro, you probably get a lot of the same type of, of emails that I get people like, dude, I have no friends, I don't know anybody like, and I, I always say go find Jiu Jitsu. But I think what I'm starting to realize is even that like we're very fortunate that we have gyms with good culture. I have people write me all the time like, man, I tried to find Jiu Jitsu and I just, just this place feels weird. The vibe feels off.

[B]

It's all 20 year olds trying to kill each other.

[A]

Exactly. So year old professional, even Jiu Jitsu is not going to be the answer for a lot of people. You have to find a path to where each and every day. And again, it's not like David Goggins shit where it's just kicking your in. It's just trying to pursue something that's going to make you proud of yourself each day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that's lost on a lot of people.

[B]

I also think it's okay to be in a phase of your life where you're not proud of yourself.

[A]

Agreed. You got to.

[B]

I put myself in some deep holes,

[A]

and that's where I have a. I have a chapter called the Darkness, and then I have another chapter called Defeating the Darkness. Because I tried to be authentic and vulnerable with people. It's like guys like us that people see as like, oh, they were in special operations, they're black belts. It becomes very easy for people to think, like, they got it all figured out. Right. And so, like, I. I know, right? I love that you're just laughing.

[B]

Come spend a week in my life.

[A]

Well, no. I always say people ask me about relationship advice. They say, you might want to talk to my wife before you. You inquire about relationship advice. But here's the truth of my life, too. I have dealt with being broke. I have dealt with a marriage that was failing for a long time. I've dealt with a business that was failing. And now at 45 years old, I feel like I'm in a place where I've been able to walk this path. I've been able to work through a lot of those storms, and now my life is working pretty well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That doesn't mean that the wheels might not fall off next week. And I have to take a lot of my own advice. But wouldn't you agree, like, once you go through enough hardships, you start to realize, like, hardship is just another phase of life.

[B]

I actually think it's just life.

[A]

It's just life. That's right. It.

[B]

Life. I don't. I am 48 now. I actually think life is actually just about out struggling.

[A]

And once you can learn to enjoy it. Yes.

[B]

If you can orient your headspace properly and you can learn to appreciate the times where it's less of a struggle, maybe get some of the spoils of your struggle. But yeah, it's. I. I'm. I'll let you know if I ever make a left on Easy street because I keep missing that one. I can't seem to find it.

[A]

And one thing that's cool about the book, it's been out almost a month now and I've got a lot of reviews online already. We're up to 115, which is pretty cool.

[B]

And one put several pretty bad ones.

[A]

I got no. 1 stars, so I know you're lying.

[B]

I'm not lying.

[A]

I bet you will give me a one star 100.

[B]

I rolled with Greg and he tried to sexually accost me. Don't read his book.

[A]

His butterfly sweep sucks. And the book sucks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You always make me lose my trip.

[B]

Stop taking me down rabbit holes. Now we're talking about struggle, man.

[A]

Man, I. I'm very honest in the book. Like, I've learned a lot of lessons that I want to share with people, but I'm also not some motivational coach. I'm not a guru, because I'm very apprehensive of people that come to the table, like, oh, we'll just do this, this, and this, and everything's going to work out. Because it's, like, easier said than done. Motherfucker.

[B]

Saying, a size 10 shoe fits for everybody.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Which it does fit really good if you're a size 10, but for everybody else, you're miserable.

[A]

And so one of my intentions on writing the book was just trying to be as authentic as possible. And that's why, like, I shared that on my Instagram the other day, is like, I talk about deployments where my weapon never even came off safe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not super cool. That's not sexy. Right.

[B]

But it's real. But it's real and it's accurate.

[A]

And I want people to buy into who I am and what I'm saying. And as soon as you start bullshitting or blurring those lines with. Of authenticity, I feel like you no longer hold validity with listeners or readers. And so that shit's important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a lot of people are saying that. They're like, man, it's. You can tell that the book is very authentic, and that's what I wanted.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what people are expecting from mine, but it is 50 grenades. Well, I mean, if Tim can do 50, I can do 51. Because, I mean, what both Green Berets and SEALs have in common is that they both wanted to be SEALs. So what he can do, I can do better. 50 grenades. My wife was asking.

[A]

She's like, let's just do a. What is a. What does a frag weigh?

[B]

I don't know, but let me.

[A]

I don't know either, but, like, did

[B]

you take them out of the tube?

[A]

I see Michael's fingers moving.

[B]

Did you take them out of the tube that they were in? Because 50 of those is bigger than a rucksack in and of itself. Right. Right. All the packing material that comes in. Did you tape the. You know, the spoons on all these things?

[A]

You want to know what I think, though? I think men have been lying about their military service.

[B]

Yeah. Since military service began.

[A]

Because you read those old Vietnam books, and they're like a rucks were 125 pounds. And it's like, I did a lot of patrolling under a ruck. A lot. I don't. My ruck was not 125 pounds.

[B]

It shouldn't be. That's a reason.

[A]

No, that's what I'm saying. Like, dude. Yeah. I feel like 125 pound ruck, you're going to be combat ineffective pretty quickly

[B]

or your first move is dropping it. And then if you have to maneuver, you better drop a pin because you know, especially in the jungle, you just tell me you're just going to go find your ruck again in the jungle after a firefight at night with no nods.

[A]

And it's like, okay, that, that's a cool thing to say. Your ruck was 125 pounds. And then when I was climbing up mountains in the Hindu Kush with a rucksack on my back, every pound counted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you had to pack very strategically to not wear yourself out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I don't know, I think it's, it's easy to want to embellish, but bro, an embellishment is just a. It's just a nice way of saying lie.

[B]

Correct. You know, and to what end?

[A]

To what end? Yeah. What do you hope to gain?

[B]

And at the end of the day, when you look in the mirror, if you really don't want to be proud of yourself.

[A]

That's exactly right. Dude.

[B]

Spend your time lying.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What? Why? You might fool everybody else. You're not fooling the skin suit you're walking around in. Yeah.

[A]

Who knows, man?

[B]

There's. I mean, again, I think for some people there's a level of.

[A]

Well, then the other thing, it's like. Sure. Like the, like basically every era of veteran, their wars were kind of isolated and then they come home and tell their tale. But the world's so connected now that like everybody knows what's going on everywhere. And if you start to say like, I did this and I did that and it's not truth, it's only a matter of time. And I'm not saying you should not lie because it's going to come back to bite you, but you should just be cognizant that it's going to come back to bite you, I'll say that

[B]

you shouldn't lie because it's going to come.

[A]

No, no. I'm saying that shouldn't be the foundation of why you're not. Because you don't want to be a fucking liar. And here's the thing too. If you're lying. It tells me you're not proud of your service. Right. Because if you're proud of your service, you don't have to embellish it. Like I had someone write me the other day on Instagram. It's like, hey, I got a question for you. Some. One of my friends told me that they have 39 confirmed kills. Does that sound. I haven't written back yet. And it's like, yes, that sounds like complete bullshit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nobody has 30.

[B]

What is also this confirmed kill thing?

[A]

What is that? Where did that come from?

[B]

Yeah, confirmed by whom?

[A]

Confirmed by who? Exactly. As soon as someone says they have a confirmed kill count. And here's the thing that I learned. And people say, how many people you kill? You know, I tell them, I don't know, I'm not sure. Maybe maybe two or three or maybe up to 10. Like not a lot, but maybe a little. Because the few guys that I have shot, they slump against a wall and duck behind a door or they run across an alley.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Or here's another thing. If you're shooting someone, there's a lot of times one of your teammates is shooting at them too. Who got that confirmed kill?

[B]

Definitely you. They missed.

[A]

Do you go back to the the hooch and draw straws? Who's confirmed? Does this go on and just for people.

[B]

No, there is no confirmed category anywhere.

[A]

There's no confirmed.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. That comes from movies, I think.

[A]

And then people start saying it.

[B]

Yeah, that only works with people who don't know. Yeah. See, if I ever had somebody come up to me and they open with that, to be honest, I would ask them to tell me more tales cuz I would be fascinated by their psyche. Be like, that is amazing. Tell me more.

[A]

Yeah, which is.

[B]

This is a conversation I've had to have with Leah. Cuz I've done this a few times. I've. People have entered into conversations.

[A]

Oh, and you just start going. Letting them give a rope to hang themselves.

[B]

And. And then Leah be like, oh yeah, Andy was in the military.

[A]

I'm like, God damn, what's going on here?

[B]

She was just like, oh, I thought, you know, I thought it would like some camaraderie. I'm like, oh no, we were well past the phase of camaraderie.

[A]

Wasn't there some with. With Chris Kyle having some kind of number in Ramadi there?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's like I was in Ramadi and it was.

[B]

He also said that the Marine Corps gave him a silver star in his book that they did Not Jesus, and I don't know why. And I, I. And it's so easy to demonstrably prove that that didn't happen. Why would you put.

[A]

Yeah, it's called a214.

[B]

Yeah, DD214.

[A]

Show me it.

[B]

Which is weird that we're at a place where civilians now know to ask that because of the amount of that has been pushed out there. But I'm actually glad that they do.

[A]

But again, it's like.

[B]

But they don't know how to.

[A]

If you're. That, what that tells me is, like, hey, if you were a sniper and you're not proud of your service, you now have to start embellishing things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I was with State Department, and they can't use the term sniper because it's too aggressive. So you know what they call snipers in the State department?

[B]

Designated marksman.

[A]

DDMs. Designated defensive marksman.

[B]

So technically, emphasis on the defensive.

[A]

Yeah. So I was a DDM for a couple of points, and I got a couple, like, pretty cool engagements that I was proud of. And it's like, okay, I got one or two. That's. That's a fun story to tell. Like, that's because, like, here's another thing that people have to realize when you're a young Ranger or contractor or seal, and you do get to go out there and find some bad guys and put them down. Man, that's what we've been hoping to do since we were. What, like, since we enlisted, playing with GI Joe. Yeah, that might sound dark, but, like, you're not called to that job unless you want to go experience what combat's like. Okay, like, I got to do it a couple times. That. That was pretty exciting. Why do you have to attach some false number to it to try and make it sound like you're bigger or badder than you actually are?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

And, bro, that's where I think Jiu Jitsu is a superpower. Because you can't be full. I shouldn't say this, because there's a lot of people in the Jiu Jitsu community that are starting to show, like, they're full of shit. Right? But one thing that I've seen, one truth that I've seen in Jiu Jitsu for a long time, is that you show up and people know what you're about right now, because the mats don't lie.

[B]

The maths don't lie. People peripheral to the mats can lie. Yeah, but it falls apart on the mats for sure. You find out right quick, you know have you seen these people rolling in socks?

[A]

I'm not a fan of people rolling in socks. I have a theory. I have a theory.

[B]

This is a foot fetish.

[A]

This is my theory. You want to know what I was more upset about with this picture than the fact that he cut his toe off? It's like, bro, fix. Fix that fungus.

[B]

Yeah, the toenail.

[A]

Fix that fungus. Totally. Fix that fungus.

[B]

You're giving it to all your friends.

[A]

Fix that fungus.

[B]

It's horrible.

[A]

And, bro, I've had some. I'm the first to admit I've had some nasty from the mats. Yeah, but you handle it, and I. I handle it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I've always thought not everybody takes hygiene as seriously. I wonder if the guys that wear socks just have the, like, homeless level toenail fungus. And if that's the case, keep your

[B]

socks on or tape your toesies or.

[A]

Or don't come back to jiu jitsu.

[B]

God. Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The audiobook. Did you do the audiobook?

[A]

I'm three chapters in. Yep. You want to know what I'm learning about that process? Have you. Are you done with yours yet?

[B]

Yes. Took me three days, six hours a day.

[A]

Oh, you just hammered it out, huh?

[B]

Some of us can perform.

[A]

No, I can't perform, bro. My brain. My brain hits tracer burnout, and it's like. So I committed to a chapter a day, and then I got to chapter three, and then I got sick. You can still hear my voice is a little bit up.

[B]

I was actually wondering about that because we had it on the schedule, me reading my audiobook for, like, two months before I did it. I was like, what if I get sick right before.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And then I started getting in my own head. I'm like, am I getting sick? Do I need to have Start having cough drops?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was completely fine convincing myself that I was getting sick.

[A]

I'm not good at reading out loud. And what did this happen to you at all? You're like reading a story, and then before you know it, you've, like, said some words that weren't there, that weren't even there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have to stop, and you're like, why did I just say that? That's not. That's not any. I think it's because we're used to podcasting where we just have.

[B]

Are you just in a room doing it by yourself?

[A]

I'm just doing it on my. In my studio. And then my production team that does the podcast is going to clean it all up and package it for audible.

[B]

So I did mine with McMillan Audio. So I did a zoom call in to an audio technician just as if we were in a studio together. But because obviously the equipment is.

[A]

Yeah, you were doing it here, then

[B]

I was doing it here. And he was actually able to monitor the Adobe Audition software in real time. So I had a guy listening to me, and that's probably why it helped a bit.

[A]

I think I'd be. That would almost give me a panic attack.

[B]

I wasn't even paying attention to him. I just had my iPad out and was just going through it. And I had written the book. I wrote the book two years ago. So I. And I. It went through the editing process, and it went through the legal review, and I hadn't picked it up in a little bit.

[A]

And you didn't even remember, like, oh, it's funny you say, who wrote this? I read sections of my book and I'm like, hey, this is pretty good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, I have no recollection of writing that. Correct.

[B]

Oh, 100 had that or.

[A]

Or another thing. And, bro, like, I'm not saying this pejoratively, to use your word, because I do think the words that we tell ourselves and the self talk we give actually influences who you are 100%. But my brain just doesn't have the capacity to memorize a lot of, like, I'm not one of those guys that can be like, hey, you remember when we did this? And like, you know, some people can just, like, remember it verbatim. That's never been me. Do you do episodes of your podcast? And then people will be like, dude, I was listening to your guest when whoever was on and you guys were talking about. Because it happens to me. And I'm like, that. No recollection.

[B]

Well, now I've also done with Friday episodes. Almost 800.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

So there's zero chance that I'm gonna have exact recollection of every episode that I've done. I'll remember the guests, but then it becomes difficult to remember what it is that we were talking about.

[A]

Yeah, like that guest that wanted you to ask me to get on my show, and then he asked you to get on Rogan's show.

[B]

Not uncommon.

[A]

God, dude, what does it matter with people? People

[B]

they don't know any better, I think.

[A]

Well, just.

[B]

I never tried it.

[A]

What a weird thing. Like, I've known you for six years. Yeah. Everybody would like to be on Rogan show. If you're an entrepreneur, you're an author, you're like, being on Rogan's show is great. So earn your way onto a show. Like, the second that you ask somebody to facilitate something, you're actually diminishing that. Your relationship and your friendship.

[B]

So some. Something I remind myself often of is never apply malice where incompetence is the more reasonable solution. They just don't know any better. Yeah, some people are very socially awkward.

[A]

Yeah, that was a weird one. Whatever.

[B]

You know, I was thinking about what you're saying about people not being proud of themselves. There's another layer to that in this country right now, and that's people who think they can't be proud of who we are, are as a people, as a country.

[A]

Yeah. A lot of people think so we

[B]

have to handle both of those. Not only is it so like a

[A]

collective pride, self image and an individual pride.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Those are two big issues that I think are connected. Like, if you can't find it in yourself to at least work towards being proud and realize that it's a work in progress. Right. And I've had some very unproud moments of myself, of course. Yeah. But then also. And. And one of the ways you can always not be proud of yourself is always focusing on the negative and not giving yourself any credit for the lessons you've learned. Same thing applies to a country. We're not perfect by any stretch. We got some huge stains on our country's history. Slavery probably being at the top of the list. But we've also done some incredible shit throughout the world.

[A]

The most incredible.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. But it becomes, oh, you're proud of this country? Are you a Nazi? It's like, whoa, dude, It's.

[A]

It's easy to focus on the negative things on both a personal level and like a macro level for the whole country. Something that I say in the gym is like, again, saying, like, no negative self talk. And even little, like, if I hear people like, oh, I'm stupid or whatever, it's like, don't say that about yourself unless you're really stupid.

[B]

Right? Yeah. Like, let us say that about you

[A]

if you're not around. But no, like, I honestly think. And it's because I have a front row seat to people pursuing personal excellence through the jiu jitsu community. I see it over and over and over again where people come in and they're overweight, they're not pursuing goals, they're not trying to live in alignment with a method that's going to bring them into being a better version of themselves. They're doing the opposite. And once you're surrounded by people that are, like, trying to level up both, like, emotionally, spiritually, physically, whatever the case is. Once. Once that's the people to your left and your right, you kind of inevitably just step into that journey. And I've watched people go from a person that is not proud of themselves at all. And so the. To the. Like the day they're crying when they get their blue belt. And it's a weird one to cry for.

[B]

I think any of the belts are weird to cry for, for clarity. But the blue belt, belt, this means you're a black.

[A]

I welled up a little bit for my black belt because it was a. I was ambushed with it, and I didn't know it was happening.

[B]

I didn't either. I kept my together.

[A]

Well, that's a whole other conversation. Don't ever hope or want for belts. Just keep coming to practice. That's people. What do I got to do to get this belt? What do I. I say you don't have to do anything for any belts other than show up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jiu Jitsu cares about one thing. If you last, and if you last, you'll be a black belt.

[B]

Chris Howder has a great saying. It's not who's best, it's who's left.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And also, and if you're in a rush to get your black belt, guess what, buddy? That's or gal, that's the last one you're ever gonna get. So you might want to enjoy the other ones along the journey as well.

[A]

And this is what I tell people. The. Each belt has, like a phase that you'll look back on and be like, oh, yeah, I remember, like, as a purple belt or a brown belt. And enjoy the journey. Just enjoy the journey for what it is. Now, obviously, if you're Mika Galvao and you want to become a black belt world champion at 19, yeah, that's a very. That's a fucking fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. If you're on some fucking elite competitor path, okay, we can have that discussion. But for everybody else, that's just hobbyists. Just keep showing up and one day you'll be a black belt. But to go back to what I was saying about my students is like, being proud of yourself doesn't mean that you have this many zeros in your bank account or you got this girl or you have a six pack. It's the thing that brings people the most pride is when they know that they're on the path and they know they're striving to be better. And if you can know, like, okay, like, you might be 300 pounds overweight, but if you're down 5 pounds and you've been eating clean and you've been trying to implement these. These measures of discipline, and you're doing it now. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You should be proud of yourself. And if we can get people to do things, I just think. I think almost everybody is in some type of cycle of depression that they're struggling to get out of.

[B]

I mean, I have been in my life.

[A]

I have been, too.

[B]

That's. Again, I think that the pursuit of the carefree, easy life is total bs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't think you should tell people that that's even possible. You might have. Have days or weeks or months where you feel like that, but you better stand by for the crest of that sine wave. Yeah, that's. I get it.

[A]

And the bigger you get, the bigger your problems get, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's like, problems will never go away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just have to learn to navigate them differently.

[B]

Yeah. What are you going to do after the row? Are you even thinking about what you're going to challenge yourself with post row?

[A]

I want to write another book about the row. Row.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I think it's gonna have a lot of time for, like, self reflection and going inward and learning about myself. I want to document that journey. I go one of two ways after the row. I either get the sailboat and just start living an adventure and pursuing my happiness with me and my family. And there's a. And then the other part of me is like, you have to take a run at politics and try and beat these at their own game. Game.

[B]

I will move to wherever you are and run against you.

[A]

Good. Good. Because hopefully you're the one that gets elected. And then I can say, hey, well, I gave it my best shot, but now Andy. Now Andy gets to be the guy.

[B]

Can you imagine our debates? They would be amazing, bro.

[A]

That's the thing, man. Like, I already know. They'll be like, well, you know what? We pulled this clip from your podcast, and you called this guy a. And I say, yeah, I did. Like, so what? People are ready for real people. People aren't ready for I got you moments or all of this is just like a. Is like theater. So. Yeah, so what? I'll say it right here. You want to hear me say it again? I'll call you it.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

I think people are going to be ready for that sooner or later. They're done with the show. And they just want real people. And the fact that it almost makes me want to vomit lets me know that maybe it should be something I pursue, you know. But then you talk to like, or, I mean, I don't know how good a friends you are, Tony Cowden, but him and I are.

[B]

I know him, but I don't know

[A]

him well because, you know, he made a run like that I had him on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I forget what position he was running for. Congressman or something, either Congress or Senate. And he's like, bro, you don't want to touch that with a ten foot pole. It's as gross and corrupt. And maybe that's the case. Right.

[B]

The thing that turns me off the most about it is that you're not going to go through it by yourself. They're going to.

[A]

No. You're going to drag your family down. Yep. But here's the thing, man. If you are proud of. Not even proud, but if you were comfortable of all the mistakes you've made and all the hardships you've went through, like, I haven't embezzled money. I don't have some that they're going to be able to pull up and be like, look what you did. Now could they pull up some stuff and be like, well, during your marriage we found out like, yeah, guess what? Welcome to marriage. Most of us have struggled at times.

[B]

Yours isn't perfect.

[A]

Yeah. So I know, I know everybody, I know everybody thinks they're gonna have an I got you moment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm just a normal person like everyone else who has an ebb and flow to how well their marriage is working. Next question. You, you know, I mean, if you're

[B]

running for politics, maybe leave that last.

[A]

I don't think so, man. I don't think so.

[B]

You can just a B test that one and see, bro, we got the

[A]

weakest, slimiest rats like our governor Bob Ferguson. Like, you just, you just look at him and it's like snake in the grass. You just feel it, man. People, sooner or later are going to be drawn towards authenticity and authenticity doesn't come with polished edges, you know?

[B]

Is this your guy?

[A]

Yeah, that's him. Dude, I mean, man. And it's like, that's the guy.

[B]

That's a powerful forehead.

[A]

That's the guy. Guy that is raking us over the coals, taking all of our money.

[B]

Exceptional Lego hair.

[A]

Oh, God, dude.

[B]

I mean, that is textbook Lego hair. On the image on the right. I am here for that.

[A]

That has no idea what a double leg from a savage feels like.

[B]

I don't think he maybe needs to.

[A]

He does need to, just.

[B]

To know it exists.

[A]

Yeah, to know it exists. Dude, how many times have you had people come here into jiu jitsu, and they're. They look decently athletic, and they just look like maybe they're a formidable man, and then they realize they know nothing. And the. The. The energy that they're sitting with after practice is just like disbelief.

[B]

Yeah, because one of two ways.

[A]

They either commit all in or they hide. Of course, one of two ways. But, like, I think a lot of people are completely out of the realm of reality, and Bob Ferguson is one of them. So come up to my gym.

[B]

Bob is not coming.

[A]

Let me do a double leg on you. Let me bring you into the realm of reality.

[B]

First, you need to get your parking to shrubbery ratio back on par. He can't be caught dead there until the shrubbery is brought up to standard.

[A]

Oh, God. Dude, you want to know what else they said? Part of our assessment is we need to make sure that you're parking area can sustain the weight of a fire engine. And I'm like, okay, that's easy. So I text one of my buddies. It's a firefighter said, hey, when you're out, can you just do a loop in your fire truck? And he goes, yeah, no problem. And then maybe your chief can be like, yeah, we did a loop, and it supported the way to the fire engine with no problem. He's driving to the gym. And another guy on the fire truck goes, goes, wait, wait, I thought we were going back to the. The station. What are we doing? He goes, I'm gonna just take a loop around my buddy's parking lot real quick. I don't know. I don't feel comfortable with that. He goes, what do you mean? He's like, well, it sounds like it's you, like, doing a personal favor, and we're on the clock. I just. I don't want to get wrapped up in something like that. And it's like, dude, there's. That's what we're dealing with, bro. Wow. Like, everybody is just a weak. That's afraid.

[B]

I mean, two out of the three people in this room aren't.

[A]

They need to read the book Courage through adversity and just challenge themselves and stop living in a place of fear.

[B]

Fear will people up.

[A]

This is what I think fear is. I think fear. I don't want to say the word vibration, because then you'll be like, oh, dude, get your crystals out, and you're gonna do a Rune casting. Right.

[B]

Let's not pretend that both of those aren't accurate.

[A]

But I think fear and excitement are almost one of the same. It's just how your. You perceive it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so instead of being afraid of everything, just be like, okay, this actually excites me. Let's see what's up with it. Let's lean into it.

[B]

Or you can treat it like a challenge or a puzzle.

[A]

A lot of.

[B]

I mean, for me, the biggest impediments of my life have been the ones that I have placed in front of you. Me. Not that I haven't. Not that I haven't faced things that were extremely challenging, but the mentality that I took into that, whether it was, this is an obstacle or this is just. Let's just figure this out. It's what I tell my kids. I'm like, every problem in life has a solution. Well, every single one. Like, we'll figure it out.

[A]

Here's another truth that most people don't want to admit. Every problem in your life. Every problem in your life, at the foundation of it is your fault. And you need to go look in the mirror, and you need to ask how the. How this thing that I caused, how can I can navigate through it? Because, bro, like, it takes accountability. And we live in a culture where a lot of people are in perpetual victim state. And it's like, oh, well, this happened to me, and then that happened to me and my girlfriend this and my wife that. And it's like, no, no. If you're with a girl that's bringing you down, that's your fault. If you're at a job where your supervisor's an to you, that's your fault. And, like, you can take some accountability and understand you have the power to change that. But people are terrified. Like, dude, when I quit the. When I wedding, I didn't quit. I got fired. But when I did that as a police officer, you know how many cops were getting a hold of me? It's like, are you out of your mind, bro? You got kids, dude. You got kids. What are you gonna do? Yeah, well, maybe I go deliver for FedEx if I have to.

[B]

Like, I feel like you'd have your AR body armor in there somewhere. You'd have, like, a box that was never delivered.

[A]

It would just be like, FedEx drivers make more than cops.

[B]

They do. Well, I think this is crushing it, too.

[A]

Yeah, UPS is crushing it. So, I mean, do I want to go deliver packages for ups? Not necessarily. Figure it out, but I'll figure it out.

[B]

The number of times I've had to do shit I didn't necessarily.

[A]

Welcome to being a man.

[B]

Yeah. To get to the place where I get to choose now and say no is countless.

[A]

But what did you have to do between the phase where your life was dictated by other people to now you're in a phase where you get to do whatever the you want. It's stepping into the unknown.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And the unknown is scary to people. And it's like, I try and look at the unknown as a place that's exciting, not a place that's scary. And, bro, that's kind of the. Like that. The motivating factor for this row is it's like we're stepping into the unknown.

[B]

Are you taking life jockey jackets?

[A]

Of course we're taking life jackets and survival suits and EPIRBs and a bailout.

[B]

Wear the life jacket.

[A]

No, probably not.

[B]

That's good. That's. That's when you need one. You shouldn't be wearing it.

[A]

Oh, dude, I should have showed you. This is. This is our row West T shirt. Direction clear. Path unknown. Because, okay, we know the direction. We're trying to go to Hawaii, but Mother nature is going to dictate the path, meaning what's going to happen between point A and point B. And I could be afraid of it, or I could just say, okay, I wonder what's going to happen and be curious about it.

[B]

Now, you had to guess, because I'll ask you this after you do it. What do you think is going to be the hardest part?

[A]

I think the hardest part is probably just the daunting task of really no rest for two months.

[B]

The repetitive nature.

[A]

The repetitive nature.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's. Your hands are going to be raw and you're going to be rowing for 60 days straight. And there's a part of me that is always. I know you've never been called to, like, ultras or things like that, right? Because, like, no, when people go run 300 miles, you're like, why would you do that?

[B]

You know what's better than running?

[A]

Not running.

[B]

Fighting. If you know how to fight, you don't have to run.

[A]

Very true. I always say you better be good at one of two things, running or fighting. But no, there's always been a part of me that's seen, like, Goggins and Cam Haynes and, like, they go out and they do. That's just preposterous.

[B]

Agreed. That's a great term for it, actually.

[A]

It's what it is. But there's also a part of me that's like, man, I. I haven't done something that hard. Maybe I. Because here's the thing about jiu jitsu. Jiu jitsu is very, very hard for blocks of one hour, and then it's over. Over.

[B]

Or even maybe blocks of five minutes or a minute inside of five minutes.

[A]

And so if you go through that hard block for 10 years, you're a black belt, but at no point is it, like, pushing you to the absolute brink of brinks. Now it's like, okay, I went through ranger school. I did this, I did that. But I've never pushed myself to where I. I feel like there's nothing left to give.

[B]

Yeah. And I think very few people have.

[A]

I kind of want to find that place, and that part of me wanted to find it through ultras. I. I probably should file a lawsuit against Goggins, because I read Can't Hurt Me, and then I was like, all right, I'm gonna go run an ultra. So I started running.

[B]

I feel like you're not the. You might be. This might be classic.

[A]

I started running, and I felt some pain in my knee, and I'm like, don't be a run through it. Right. Can't hurt me.

[B]

Can remove your acl.

[A]

Well, bro, I ran on it, and I ran on it, and I ran on it, and it hurt worse and worse and worse to the point where I couldn't walk. And I went and got an mri, and the doctor's like, you're bone on bone. You're gonna need a knee replacement. And I was like, huh? I guess you can't. I guess you can hurt me.

[B]

Yeah. And you can hurt Goggins, too. That's a great title for a book.

[A]

Yeah. No, but it just made me realize, okay, like, running and mountaineering is probably not where I'm going to find that. That's. That really. That. That spot where I've actually pushed myself as far as I can go. And then I saw those guys rowing, and I was like, this is the time of my life where I can go test that and see what's up with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I also think it's going to be fun, too.

[B]

There will be huge aspects of fun, for sure, and suffering and laughter and camaraderie and all that stuff.

[A]

I know we're probably going to wrap it up pretty quick. I just want to say, like, my. My goal for the row, and I've talked to the team about this in. In detail, our goal as a team is to have zero disrespect on the boat. For the duration of the trip. That doesn't mean there can't be frustration. That doesn't mean there can't be anger. But there's nowhere to go. The only way. The only way through is forward. And any type of conflict doesn't enhance the journey. It only has a propensity to detract from it. So we're like, hey, if we're having problems, if we're angry, whatever the case may be, the journey is about being disciplined and always sitting with respect and communication because there's no other path. And like, that's probably going to be easier said than done for sure.

[B]

How many spare oars are you bringing?

[A]

So four full sets.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And we're only using two at a time. So we have two sets in the water and then two spares. And it's funny you asked that because I was considering buying a third set.

[B]

I would only take one.

[A]

Why don't we take just one each?

[B]

Just take an or.

[A]

Yeah. One or. Well, we do have two brown guys on the team. So I said, my brown guys, they have incredibly racist. They have to paddle. They have to paddle like this with a single or. And then us white guys get to roll like Vikings.

[B]

Oh, God. How long we been at it, Michael? 2:38. That's not bad. I got something for you too.

[A]

Oh, yeah?

[B]

Are you carry on or did you check it back?

[A]

I'll check it back. It was Carry on, but it's gonna be.

[B]

I can mail it to you.

[A]

Well, and shout out that.

[B]

I mean, I can have Michael.

[A]

No, no, no, I'm gonna. I'll. I'll just check it tomorrow. Shout out. Montana Knife Co. Is gonna be one of the sponsors for the row.

[B]

I don't feel like you. Well, are they gonna make you like a spear gun? Are you guys gonna go spear fishing?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. One of the guys on the team is from Maui and he's an avid spear fisherman. He has a five minute breath hold. Crazy.

[B]

That's unacceptable.

[A]

I know. And he's like, oh, you know, when we go, we go get fish. We keep him on like a 20 foot stringer because the tigers will come and try and steal them from us. You know when a big. When a big Tiger, it's like 14ft or so comes up, I'll just give him a jab in the nose. They'll usually leave us alone after that. I'm like, dude, I want no part of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whatsoever.

[B]

I don't want a part of tiger on land or water. Yeah. There's no version of A tiger that I want to party with.

[A]

No, he's. He's my homie, Joshua Dukes. He's on the boat with us, and we're basically. The trip. We're basically just taking him home.

[B]

That's sweet.

[A]

You know, but no. Montana knife company said they would do. You know Andrew Oliver. I forget his position with.

[B]

I do. Yes.

[A]

Okay. He. I've been talking to him, and we're just gonna get some filet knives, and then obviously each guy will have a personal knife.

[B]

Sweet.

[A]

And then we'll. We'll trade that to put this logo on our boat.

[B]

This one may not be well for the boat, but this will go good on your. There you go. This will go good on your AR setup.

[A]

Oh, it's a bayonet, huh?

[B]

I mean, maybe.

[A]

So when I'm ready to put my body armor and my AR15 on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's this knife on it

[B]

which is laser etched with the podcast logo. Don't cut yourself pulling it out.

[A]

Oh, I know, dude. Their knives are ridiculous.

[B]

That thing's sick.

[A]

Yeah. That thing's rad. Thank you, man.

[B]

Yeah, of course. Oh, and then I got you a galley copy of the book, too.

[A]

Sweet.

[B]

Dude, I gotta have a perfect inscription for you, too.

[A]

You think Gators wants to sponsor the row?

[B]

Maybe I can ask him.

[A]

You gotta hook me up with them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I quit wearing sunglasses two years ago. Why? Have you heard the theory that if you stop. See, Michael, you know? Theory? Really? I'm telling you what I know.

[B]

Every trolling. Ease through the sunglasses.

[A]

No, it's not fucking any impression, but

[B]

your eyes are getting weaker because they're shaded from the sun.

[A]

No. Your hormones in your body make you less susceptible to sunburns when your pupils are not dilated.

[B]

You don't have to wear mirrored sunglasses. You could get, like, a lighter shade.

[A]

No, what I'm saying is I haven't been sunburned in two years. Ever since I quit wearing sunglasses.

[B]

Now I want you to not wear sunglasses on your row.

[A]

Well, I'm thinking about that. So that won't be congruent. That won't be congruent with a sponsorship through Gators, but it'll be worth the sunburn.

[B]

Cool. Anything. Is there a way people can support the row?

[A]

Yes. Go to the. The Instagram is Ro West Pacific. We have a.

[B]

Do you sell those shirts and stuff?

[A]

We're going to. You can see them. They're not available yet, but we're gonna have them printed, and then this will

[B]

come out in two or three weeks. Okay.

[A]

We'll have it. We'll have everything up by then. And then. Yeah, just go follow the journey. We just want to inspire people. We want to inspire men to be willing to step into adventure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I think it's lost in a lot of people's life. A lot of people are stuck in the rat race and they're in the hamster wheel of life. And a lot of men in particular prioritize everything above themselves. They prioritize their kids, their wives, their career. But I think it's necessary and healthy to put yourself first sometimes at times.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

And so we want to inspire men to pursue adventure and pursue, more importantly, pursue themselves. And so, yeah, row west Pacific on Instagram and then courage through adversity. Is the book available now on Amazon? If you are so kind to support me and pick up a copy, please leave a review too. Just not a one star review like Andy's gonna leave me.

[B]

Just like two.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, two or above. Yeah. If you want to write a one star, if it sucks that bad, just. Just sit this one.

[B]

Apparently that does help a lot, right? The reviews, the reader reviews, it's everything, bro.

[A]

You need to really push your people to leave reviews because just like everything in the digital world, like YouTube, Instagram, it's all algorithm based.

[B]

Oh, it probably. Yeah. Because it's getting attraction.

[A]

So what happens? Yeah, so what happens is once, once you get a certain number of reviews, like what my team said is once it's above a hundred, you start to gain a lot more steam. Once it's above 200, that's like, that's what. That's when you're in the gangster realm.

[B]

Sweet.

[A]

If you look though, I already showed you this. You probably hate this, but too bad if you go to my book and you scroll down frequently bought together is our books.

[B]

Are they though?

[A]

Or is that just a lie? Is that just a government conspiracy?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's weird, man. It's wild for me to see a book I wrote up there, even on there in general, but it's pretty cool that people would buy both. It doesn't surprise me. There's a good Venn diagram overlap with you and I.

[A]

So currently you only have the hardcover available, so that's what I purchased.

[B]

Yeah, well, because from my understanding is they do only hardcover to begin with and then paperback comes later. Okay, but I don't know this, so I'm not.

[A]

I mean, that's not the case with Amazon kdp, the route I went because

[B]

the publisher themselves are printing right now. I have no, I have two more galleys because they sent me like 10 more. I did the social media giveaway. Holy, dude. Like 5,000 people wanted that thing. I was like, that's amazing. Thank you. I forgot to say in the video, like, hey, if you don't win, you could always pre buy. I'm so good at sales.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was just like. But the. Yeah. The publisher is physically producing the copies. I won't have an actual hard copy from my understanding until late March.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Probably a month from now. Maybe a little bit late. Less than a month.

[A]

Well, in the last two minutes, just tell me what your book's about because you actually. When we were walking to get coffee, you said it's not really about military service.

[B]

It's not. It's. I mean, I opened the book with me getting arrested for the first time and losing my trident six weeks after I got. It's. It's in the shift in mindset that I had to have as a young man that definitely reoriented the trajectory of my life. Because before that it was just like, that's everybody else's fault but my own. And I almost went into my chiefs board with that mentality, which would have been galactically catastrophic. My career probably would end it, but instead I went the other direction. And then a lot of it is mistakes. I mean, it's a chapter where I talk about my divorce. You mean you think SEAL training is hard?

[A]

Yeah, bro.

[B]

Strap it in for a 24 or 23 month divorce.

[A]

The hardest thing for men to overcome is women.

[B]

Since the history of.

[A]

The history of women.

[B]

Can't live without them, though. Have to have.

[A]

Of course. No, that's. Well, there's the dichotomy. That's crazy. It's like.

[B]

God, it's. A lot of it is me failing and what I learned from the failure or just. It's so many people. God, I've had this comment so many times. I could never do what you did. And statistically maybe, but that's just because very few people actually pursue to go down that pipeline. What I realized, and I think I realized this as I was getting to the tail end of my career. Although statistically, the experiences are out of reach for a lot of people, the lessons learned from them are not.

[A]

Yeah, no, they're carry over to any aspect of life and for whatever reason.

[B]

That's stupid. Pin on the lion behind you. People pay attention to what you say. So it's my best attempt to take the. Mostly failures and the lessons I learned from that and the experiences and Apply that so people can use them in their life because they are those experiences. And the things that I've learned have landed me sitting here talking with you today through the good times and the bad times. So, yeah, the physical experience in which, by the way, everybody, you didn't miss out on that much, kind of sucked the vast majority of the time. Enjoyable, but sucked. You don't. You don't have to go through that to learn those lessons. So it's just my attempt to try to take that world and put it into something digestible, that people would actually take that and be like, you know what? I actually know what to do.

[A]

Are you proud of the final product?

[B]

Yeah. But I mean, there's of course things I would change or add in the process, but at some point you'll like, get this thing out of here, because I will edit this until I feel like I would have edited it until it was totally different and then edited it back to what it originally was.

[A]

Yeah. Cuz I remember a couple years ago, you're like, I. I'll never write a book. Oh, I've said that for no interest in writing a book.

[B]

I had no interest.

[A]

And there's your book.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Feels kind of weird when it's in your hand and it's done, huh?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So that's the galley copy. Just like, it doesn't have the author photo or the acknowledgments, but.

[A]

Hey, will you ask Joe Rogan if he'll do the forward for my book too? No. Even though it's already done?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know what's crazy is he wrote me two paragraphs and they pulled that sentence out of it. What he wrote was so personal and like, it's not in there.

[A]

Oh, they didn't put the whole thing.

[B]

It would have taken the entire front cover.

[A]

No, no, no. I mean, you should. It's not in the front of the book.

[B]

No. They just took a blurb from it. And then like, Jocko wrote an awesome forward.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Definitely lied about my service and my capacity and capability, which was appreciated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like I remember Andy by name. I'm like, no, you don't. I mean, everybody. And then, you know, Jack Carr wrote a blurb on there. Like, I just. And that's honestly, I. I want the book to be successful for the publisher. Not because I want them to get their money back, but because every. Like Joe and Jocko and Jack, because they were willing to take a risk on me and help me. Like.

[A]

Yeah. And they stood behind you on it.

[B]

Yeah. I have to do everything I can to at least help make it successful.

[A]

Well, and I also think, like, your book, similar to mine, it's. It's not about, like, how badass we are. It's about you read that book and

[B]

be like, I'm sorry this career was successful.

[A]

But bro, it's like you said, it's trying to help. Help people and men, usually men more particular with like, our audiences and whatnot. But the goal is like, again, if the book makes a bunch of money for me, cool, yeah, I'll take that money. That makes me happy. Right. But the goal is to try and help society as a whole. And that's what I open the book up with. It's like, hey, this is a blueprint to just try and be better.

[B]

And like, I would rather get emails from people that say, I found your book and it helped me with. Fill in the bl.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

I literally.

[A]

Than any amount of money legitimately. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Any amount of money. I would rather have somebody learn from my mistake and shorten their learning curve or have it access to a tool that they didn't or hadn't heard of. Maybe they just didn't know it existed because they're in different circles with different experiences. And it. It helps them solve a problem personally or professionally.

[A]

And you will, bro. It's inevitable now.

[B]

I hope so.

[A]

Yeah, it's a. It's a foregone conclusion. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, let's go do some jiu jitsu.

[B]

I mean, you're gonna teach. I'll sit there and just come at 8:00'. Clock. I'm gonna teach at 7.

[A]

7.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I can go take a nap, bro.

[B]

100.