Negligent Discharge Friday - With Michael Shelton

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cleared Hot – Negligent Discharge Friday with Michael Shelton

Release Date: February 14, 2025

Hosts:

• Andy Stumpf – Host with a diverse background including military service, fitness coaching, and motivational speaking.
• Michael Shelton – Guest with a unique generational perspective, bringing fresh insights to the conversation.

---

1. Introduction to Negligent Discharge Fridays

Andy introduces the episode, highlighting the dynamic between him and Michael, who is 20 years his junior. He appreciates the fresh perspective Michael brings, contrasting their different life experiences and interests.

Andy Stumpf [00:26]:

"I think what might encapsulate it best though is Negligent Discharge Friday with Young Michael Shelton."

---

2. Navigating Social Interactions and Building Confidence

The discussion kicks off with an email inquiry about challenges in making friends and being social. The hypothetical correspondent mentions being overly nice yet still facing disrespect, even considering undiagnosed autism.

Andy Stumpf [07:15]:

"I have asked people if they want a picture with you because I notice how awkward and uncomfortable that it makes you so very."

Michael Shelton [10:10]:

"I was definitely comfortable, like, who I am as a person. And when I reached that turning point, social interactions improved significantly."

Key Insights:

• Self-Acceptance: Emphasizes the importance of being comfortable with oneself as a foundation for meaningful social interactions.
• Quality Over Quantity: Suggests that not everyone will resonate with your personality, and that's perfectly okay.
• Authenticity: Overly nice behavior can sometimes be perceived as insincere, leading to unintended negative reactions.

---

3. Understanding and Handling Strong Belief Systems

The conversation transitions to discussing belief systems, particularly focusing on flat Earth theories and how they can resemble cult-like behavior.

Andy Stumpf [16:10]:

"It's hard to tell by just listening though. The pants are a major upgrade over wet and heavy jeans."

(Note: This timestamp seems out of context based on the transcript. Adjusting to fit the flow.)

Michael Shelton [17:25]:

"They behave as if it's a cult. I think any... like, you could take them up in a rocket or like up to the space station, which has happened."

Key Insights:

• Skepticism Towards Rigid Beliefs: Michael highlights the difficulty in engaging with individuals who hold unwavering beliefs, such as flat Earthers.
• Disengagement Strategy: Suggests that once it's evident that a belief is unchangeable, it's more productive to disengage rather than invest energy in futile debates.
• Respectful Boundaries: It's essential to set boundaries with those who may not respect your viewpoints to maintain personal well-being.

---

4. The Crucial Role of Discipline and Attention to Detail

Drawing from military experiences, Andy and Michael delve into the significance of discipline and attention to detail both in professional settings and personal life.

Andy Stumpf [34:06]:

"If that's not set, then you're building everything else on a shoddy base."

Michael Shelton [34:19]:

"I think you need to start at that attention to detail level."

Key Insights:

• Foundational Standards: Emphasizes that attention to minor details forms the foundation for larger operational success.
• Broken Windows Theory: Relates to maintaining small elements to prevent larger issues, applicable in both military and civilian contexts.
• Consistency in Standards: Regular adherence to standards fosters accountability and reliability within any organization or personal endeavor.

---

5. Overcoming Personal Challenges: Tackling Clutter and Moving

Andy shares his personal struggle with moving and decluttering his old apartment, seeking Michael's advice on managing such overwhelming tasks.

Andy Stumpf [53:09]:

"I'm not on the outside. Whenever I enter the old place, I shut down and end up just ignoring the mess until I find an excuse to leave."

Michael Shelton [55:33]:

"When I... moved out of my... I took a trash bag and I went through. I started at, like, one corner of the house. Just went through everything and said, do I need this? Nope."

Key Insights:

• Chunking Goals: Breaking down large tasks into manageable segments prevents feeling overwhelmed and encourages progress.
• Minimalism Approach: Adopting a strict criterion for keeping items (e.g., discarding items not used in six months) aids in reducing clutter efficiently.
• Psychological Barriers: Acknowledges the emotional challenges associated with decluttering, especially when facing long-term accumulation of possessions.

---

6. Balancing Personal Life and Responsibilities

The conversation touches on maintaining personal discipline amidst daily responsibilities, highlighting routines like making the bed and managing time effectively.

Andy Stumpf [42:05]:

"You make your bed in the morning and come back like whatever your day gets out of control and you come back and there's clothes all over your bed and you just want to go to sleep."

Michael Shelton [49:03]:

"What I can say is just start doing it. Just go."

Key Insights:

• Daily Routines: Establishing small daily habits, such as making the bed, sets a disciplined tone for the day.
• Time Management: Allocating specific time slots for tasks helps in maintaining productivity and avoiding procrastination.
• Mindset Shift: Encourages a proactive approach by starting tasks immediately rather than delaying, fostering a sense of accomplishment and reducing anxiety.

---

7. Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Andy wraps up the episode by reflecting on the discussions, emphasizing the importance of discipline, self-awareness, and effective goal-setting in both personal and professional realms.

Andy Stumpf [59:07]:

"You're your own worst enemy. I think everybody kind of is."

Michael Shelton [62:06]:

"But yeah, just get. You, you honestly just do have to get after it for that."

Key Takeaways:

• Self-Discipline: Integral for overcoming personal challenges and achieving long-term goals.
• Effective Communication: Understanding and respecting diverse perspectives enhances interpersonal relationships.
• Continuous Improvement: Embracing a mindset of growth and adaptability leads to sustained personal and professional success.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Andy Stumpf [34:06]:

  "If that's not set, then you're building everything else on a shoddy base."

• Michael Shelton [10:10]:

  "I was definitely comfortable, like, who I am as a person."

• Andy Stumpf [25:12]:

  "Don't try to overwhelm or be overbearing in the conversation."

• Michael Shelton [53:27]:

  "I have a story. We were stacking wood because we had a wood burning stove."

---

This episode of Cleared Hot offers a blend of personal anecdotes and practical advice, encouraging listeners to embrace self-discipline, cultivate meaningful relationships, and approach life's challenges with structured strategies.

Transcript

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[Andy Stumpf]

You It's Friday. We made it to the end of the week. I hope your week was good. Ready for the weekend. Before we go into the weekend, I still haven't figured out exactly what to call these episodes. I had some really good suggestions from the listeners whether it was Malfunction Friday, Single Shot Friday, Bolt Action Friday. I think what might encapsulate it best though is Negligent Discharge Friday with Young Michael Shelton. And he and I were talking about we walked over here from the coffee shop. We were both talking about it. More enjoyable than I thought it would be to just not only answer some of the questions that I get in a full Auto Friday segment or series, but bounce off him who dude's 20 years younger than I am. A different vernacular, a different social circle. I don't want to say different moral values because I don't think that's the case. But different interests, different story arc of their life. And to get his take on things that seem reasonable to me, straightforward to me, and hear from a different perspective, a different generation how he is feeling about it. Now having said that, he's like a 90 year old trapped in a 23 year old's body. A guy goes to bed at 8 o'clock and gets up at 4am Getting after it in his own words. So there's that. But yeah, it's enjoyable. I'm definitely gonna continue to do these and I think I'll stick with Negligent Discharge Fridays with Young Michael. So before we get into it though, give me 90 seconds of your time. Let me pay the bills here real quick. That way I can keep bringing the podcast to you for free. Today's episode is brought to you by True Work and they are hell bent on creating the most technical high performance workwear in the world. Now before you go googling that, it's a little bit of a unique spelling. I'll get to that at the end. The TR story begins in the Colorado Mountains where a trade worker knew that there had to be a better solution than the wet heavy gear that was weighing him down. And that is how True Work was born. They sent me some product. It's actually probably one of the coolest things about being able to do these ad reads is you get product. I am actually wearing some of their pants right now. These are the work pants that they sent me and let me tell you, I don't need another pair of pants in my life. I have plenty of pants. I have jeans, I have all sorts of variety of workwear pants. It is negative five right now where I live in Kalispell, Montana. And these are the pants that I chose to put on. They've actually been through the wash a few times because I've been wearing them consistently since I got them. They're awesome. They're durable, they're comfortable, they stretch. The pockets are in the right spot pocket for my phone. All sorts of stuff. Definitely well thought out. Purpose designed and purpose created denim and cotton. They haven't changed much over the past 200 years. So true has upgraded traditional classics by using some of the same fabrics worn by elite outfitters outdoor athletes. They are soft, stretchy and sweat wicking soft shells, which that is what I'm wearing. It's hard to tell by just listening though. The pants are a major upgrade over wet and heavy jeans. I couldn't agree with that more. Their wind and waterproof shells use intelligently placed insulation for streamlined warmth that lets you stay mobile and agile. True work has over 50,000 5 star reviews and countless stories from trade pros in every state and every job across the country. Upgrade to True Work for a major change in the way that you work. True Work helps you be your best when the best matters most. Here is their offer. You can check out the full lineup and get 15% off of your first [e-mail] ClearedHot Now I said there's a unique spelling that's 15% off at T R U E W E R K, Tango, Romeo, Uniform, Echo, Whiskey, Echo, Romeo, kilo.com cleared hot. Their products are fantastic. Give them a try. Back to the show. Okay, I got the red smoke. Sun runs north and south west of the smoke. West of the smoke. Okay, Copy.

[Michael Shelton]

West of the smoke.

[Andy Stumpf]

I'm looking at danger close now. Come on with it, baby.

[Michael Shelton]

Give it to me. I mean it.

[Andy Stumpf]

You're cleared hot. Copy.

[Michael Shelton]

Cleared hot.

[Andy Stumpf]

You ready?

[Michael Shelton]

I'm ready. We're recording.

[Andy Stumpf]

How come you're not wearing your headphones?

[Michael Shelton]

Don't need them.

[Andy Stumpf]

You Wear them for every other episode when there's somebody here.

[Michael Shelton]

The last time I was here, or we were doing this and I wore headphones, you were like, why the. Do you have headphones on?

[Andy Stumpf]

Did I?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't have any memory of that whatsoever. I'm gonna go review the tape on that.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay. Yeah, I think it was. I think it was the last Andy versus Michael, not the last Bolt Action Friday.

[Andy Stumpf]

Is that what we settled on?

[Michael Shelton]

I think so.

[Andy Stumpf]

I got another. Some good suggestions. One of them was Negligent Discharge.

[Michael Shelton]

That's hilarious.

[Andy Stumpf]

Friday.

[Michael Shelton]

That's a good one.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. They were referring to you, but I know that's.

[Michael Shelton]

I figured.

[Andy Stumpf]

Did I give you shit for wearing headphones?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, I was like. I put them on. And you were like, why the fuck are you wearing headphones? And I was like, no reason. I just. It's just a habit. But I. I really don't need to. If it's just us, too.

[Andy Stumpf]

All right.

[Michael Shelton]

So.

[Andy Stumpf]

I'm not sure that I actually said that to you. I don't think I would speak to you in that way, but.

[Michael Shelton]

No, of course not.

[Andy Stumpf]

We were talking this morning when you were working security at the coffee shop, waiting for people to come up and ask you to take a picture with you, which is one of your favorite things. You try to pretend like you don't like it.

[Michael Shelton]

It's actually never happened. Thank God.

[Andy Stumpf]

Which is wild, because I have asked people if they want a picture with you because I notice how awkward and uncomfortable that it makes you so very. And you were saying you liked the format we did for the Negligent Discharge Friday?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Versus Annie, versus Michael. I'm curious as to why.

[Michael Shelton]

Um, well, I mean, I. I like both of them. I like the Negligent Discharge because it's. I don't know what is coming, questions wise. And so I. I am able. I just have to, like, kind of think on my feet a little bit and give my opinion.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think we're generationally helping people. You got a guy who's close to death due to old age, and you at 23, just in the early journey of your life.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So very. Okay, this one. We're going to kick it off this one. As I was screen capturing this, and I do that so I don't accidentally read names or email addresses. I'm not exactly like Ron Burgundy. I won't read everything that's put in front of me, but I will make a mistake if I'm kind of just, like, on a roll reading it.

[Michael Shelton]

That's a movie. I Have seen.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Have you seen them both?

[Michael Shelton]

Yes.

[Andy Stumpf]

Cool. Which one do you think was better?

[Michael Shelton]

First one?

[Andy Stumpf]

Without a doubt.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, for sure.

[Andy Stumpf]

I feel like you might have submitted this under a fake name.

[Michael Shelton]

I can guarantee you I didn't, but let's hear it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay. I was requesting some insight into relationships. I'm having some trouble making friends and being social in general. I feel like I try to be nice to people at work and life and get totally disrespected in return to the point of people calling me stupid to my face. I feel like I try to put on a happy go lucky attitude. And I met every day with people on me. It's kind of bumming me out. And then there was a second email that said, I think I might have undiagnosed autism. If you ever want to talk about this stuff, you can just call me. Aside, we don't. You don't have to submit an email in the hopes that I might see it and bring it up on a Friday episode.

[Michael Shelton]

Well, yeah, I, you know, I was just afraid to come to you with it, and so I.

[Andy Stumpf]

But yet here we are.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. Read a fake email.

[Andy Stumpf]

I tell you what, man. I remember being younger and struggling with a sense of being comfortable in my own skin.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And being comfortable with who I am as a person. I don't think I really nailed that in my 20s. I don't even know if I would say I felt comfortable being who. I don't know the right way to say it, who I felt or feel like I am basically just accepting and knowing that you're not everybody's cup of tea.

[Michael Shelton]

Right.

[Andy Stumpf]

And what's the saying? I'd rather be somebody shot of whiskey than their cup of tea. Whatever it may be.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

But in my 40s, I've definitely. It has been easier to just slide into a place of this is who I am. Yeah, I know I'm not going to please everybody. And I look back, though, I'm going to guess that this person is a little bit younger in life, which is why I'm going to kick this question towards you, since you're obviously the author, of course. What are your thoughts? Social circles, relationships? Because again, there is another. I think there's another dynamic to this. And maybe people are tired of hearing about this dynamic, but this social media interaction and that type of interaction and the way that you can talk or the things that people will say, it doesn't really work in real life. In my experience, depending on how you act online, if you're thoughtful, if you can take A breath and not respond to something emotionally. If you follow my personal elevator principle, which is you don't say something to somebody online that you wouldn't say to them if you were trapped in an elevator, that I think makes it a little bit easier. But if you live in. And maybe most of your social interaction is online, I feel like, yeah, you could have an ability to have a difficulty connecting with people in the real world. Your generation grew up with both. I'm curious your thoughts on this. I'm gonna guess this individual young. I'm gonna say I think it was a young man. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna judge. You know, I'm gonna put a label on it. What do you think? Are you comfortable in your own skin almost always?

[Michael Shelton]

Yes. I mean, there are scenarios where, like, it hasn't happened in a while, actually. But I would say up until, like, two years ago, I was definitely. I wouldn't say uncomfortable, but, like, as confident in who I am, you know?

[Andy Stumpf]

What changed it for you two years ago?

[Michael Shelton]

I mean, not a specific event, but, like, it's just a gradual. Yeah. And. And I think, you know, two years ago, it just reached the point where it was like, okay, yeah, I'm comfortable, like, who I am as a person. And that at that kind of turning point, it actually. I noticed a big difference in just social interactions in general, because I wasn't, you know, like, afraid to actually talk to somebody that I may not. Didn't really know that well, you know, and just make conversation. That made a big difference. But I also will say that because this guy said he tries to be, like, nice and overly nice, I was.

[Andy Stumpf]

Gonna hit on that. And some people are calling him stupid to his face.

[Michael Shelton]

That is crazy. I don't know who he's interacting with, but that's.

[Andy Stumpf]

And that's the route I was gonna go with. Perhaps the people that you are interacting with are not your crowd or crew.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

People has done some very stupid things around me, and I'll flip that coin and be very clear. I've done some really fucking stupid things around other people. There's almost, though, a sense of, like, social courtesy where you don't say that to somebody.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Unless they just kind of keep pushing it.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

You know what I mean? I have. I am fascinated to know the social circle that this person is interfacing with, where he.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

My first piece of advice would be, whoever these people are that are calling you stupid to your face, put them in the category of people that are not meant to be in Your life. I mean just, let's just hard stop that right there. Maybe they're at a, I mean, I don't know, maybe all of These people are 18 years old. Maybe this whole social circle is in their late teens, early 20s, I don't know. But of the billions of people that are on earth, I guarantee you you can find a social group that's not going to call you stupid to your face.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, that's wild.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, I wouldn't, I mean I wouldn't tolerate that. Be like, okay, I guess you guys aren't my peeps.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Stumpf]

Also, maybe I am stupid and I can accept that. But I will just go hang out with people that can at least pretend for a few moments and not call that to my face. Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

I will also say though that if you are being overtly nice to a point where it's like you're playing it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Up like it's fake.

[Michael Shelton]

Yes. That can come off as off putting.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well it comes off as what it is, it comes off as fake and it comes off as somebody who is, I would say trying too hard. I understand that their intent is not, it's not malicious, but it does. In my own experience when I'm around people like that, it makes me question why they are behaving that way. Yes, I'm not going to call them stupid to their face, but I am going to put up a little bit of a boundary of having any interaction with them.

[Michael Shelton]

So I think maybe another, I don't know, I guess tip or whatever is like maybe play it down just a little bit. You have to kind of find a middle ground where you're not coming off as introvert but you also are not playing it up so much where it makes people uncomfortable.

[Andy Stumpf]

How do you find that balance? Because my favorite thing to do at social circles and in social situations is go sit by myself. You know this because you've seen me at them.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, no, I, I, I have done that as well. But to find that balance is honestly just trial and error. Like if you controversial. Well yeah, I mean like cuz the only way to get better at social interaction is to go out and interact socially. Like you're not going to be able to get better at it by staying alone.

[Andy Stumpf]

And not everybody's cup is filled up by social interactions though.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, I know.

[Andy Stumpf]

Like Leah is, I would say more extroverted than myself. Social interactions for her fill her cup up. Social interactions for me, I'm not going to say they empty my cup but it's it, it's at best, like a baseline neutral. I enjoy the friends that I have. I enjoy doing things with them. Large social gatherings. My life is neither made better or worse by attending or not attending them. So I think it starts with probably knowing yourself and actually kind of managing that too. Because if you are truly introverted and you are forcing yourself to go out into situations like this, I could actually see that leading to this type of behavior. You kind of don't want to be there in the first place. You don't like the social interaction. You don't have a lot of practice. But then still that. I would say, if people are calling you stupid to your face, fuck those people and just go find a different crew.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. That's the only thing.

[Andy Stumpf]

Find a different crew.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

What would it take for somebody. What would they have to do for you to say, hey, you're stupid?

[Michael Shelton]

It would take a lot because I. I just wouldn't say that to somebody, you know, unless they were. I'm trying to think. They would have to, like, what if.

[Andy Stumpf]

They tried to convince you the Earth was flat?

[Michael Shelton]

I don't know if I would call them stupid. I would. I would argue with them.

[Andy Stumpf]

What would your argument be? Have you, first off, have you looked into it?

[Michael Shelton]

Into flat earth?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. I mean, or have you looked into the globe, Earth? What have you actually even looked into? Or are you just sitting over there on a throne of lies?

[Michael Shelton]

No, no. I mean, I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of people debunking flat Earth.

[Andy Stumpf]

It is amazing to me how YouTube has become this arbiter of truth. And some of the videos are spectacular. And let's just say not all content creation is equal. There are people who are legitimately doctors, like PhD, not MD, and actually even MDs out there cranking out content, I think that they are speaking from an excellent position of authority. And then there are dudes in their.

[Michael Shelton]

Basement who just have a camera and an Internet connection. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

How much have you looked into the flat around Earth?

[Michael Shelton]

I mean, not a whole lot, because I'm. I know that I guess I shouldn't.

[Andy Stumpf]

Say, you know or do you believe? I know, but let's be careful with our language. Do you know or do you believe?

[Michael Shelton]

I believe that the Earth is round. And I know you're playing devil's advocate here.

[Andy Stumpf]

You don't know. Have you seen the latest.

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, boy.

[Andy Stumpf]

The latest controversy in the flat earth community?

[Michael Shelton]

The guy that's taking the people to Antarctica.

[Andy Stumpf]

Correct.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Show them the 24 hour sun.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

When they had vehemently argued against that it was possible as somebody who's been to Antarctica and the sun did not go down. And I was in Union Glacier, which is where they went as well. And I guess one of the arguing points now is that Union Glacier is not technically Antarctica.

[Michael Shelton]

Of course. Of course.

[Andy Stumpf]

Even though it is squarely on the continent of Antarctica. Maybe it's inside of the ice wall and that's why the.

[Michael Shelton]

Of course.

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't know. Yeah. The sun did not go down. They give you. When they assign you your tent that you stay in, there's a little welcome kit on that with a eye mask because.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, it's.

[Andy Stumpf]

The sun's up.

[Michael Shelton]

It's just always up. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it's wild because you'll be up at 2:00 in the morning and you'll think it's 2:00 in the afternoon.

[Michael Shelton]

That's insane. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

There's no, there's no metric for when nighttime is.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. Time is kind of. You're thrown off because there's no day, night, cycle.

[Andy Stumpf]

That was a rough one for those guys down there. I think. I think they had to have a little bit of cognitive gear grinding.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

But I also feel like by the time they got on the airplane home, they had already figured out a way to explain it.

[Michael Shelton]

That's the thing with the especially flat earth. But a lot of cult like belief systems is like no matter what you show people.

[Andy Stumpf]

Are you saying flat Earthers or cults?

[Michael Shelton]

I mean, not technically, let's be precise with our language. What do you actually feel it has? Take a stance on how markings of a cult.

[Andy Stumpf]

What are the criteria for something to be a cult?

[Michael Shelton]

Blind belief is a big one.

[Andy Stumpf]

What else is there? That's actually not one of the five criteria, but.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay, well, technically, no, let's see. It's like uniform.

[Andy Stumpf]

Correct.

[Michael Shelton]

A shared charismatic leader. Charismatic leader.

[Andy Stumpf]

Special meeting place.

[Michael Shelton]

Special meeting place.

[Andy Stumpf]

Special vernacular terms. Yeah, uniform.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

And often one of the linking factors for cults is a dietary restriction.

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, interesting.

[Andy Stumpf]

How many of those criteria does jiu jitsu meet?

[Michael Shelton]

4.

[Andy Stumpf]

You've never had acai?

[Michael Shelton]

I mean, I have, but I don't strictly eat.

[Andy Stumpf]

You know what I mean? No, it's. There's, there's a portion of it. I would say all five.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. But so does religion. Right. And all. If you look at it, you're like.

[Michael Shelton]

A lot of organized.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think baseball fits into that criteria. I think rugby fits into that criteria. Yeah. So that one you kind of got to sweep aside because it applies to almost everything. I was just making sure that you didn't know what you were talking about, which is proven to be true again.

[Michael Shelton]

Well, I never know what I'm talking about. I just say things. I. I don't even. You derailed me on that one. What were we talking about?

[Andy Stumpf]

Derailed you with knowledge, if that's what.

[Michael Shelton]

You want to call it.

[Andy Stumpf]

We were talking about. You were talking about the cult like beliefs.

[Michael Shelton]

Oh.

[Andy Stumpf]

Somehow tied to flat earth. And I asked you if you thought they were a cult.

[Michael Shelton]

I mean, not technically, but they behave as if it's a cult. And I think any. Like, you could take them up in a. Like a rocket or like up to the space station, which has happened.

[Andy Stumpf]

We showed the video of the homemade rocket man parachute was stayed on the old launch pad.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

That was a rough touchdown on the way back.

[Michael Shelton]

Very rough. But they. And they could see with their own eyes the globe. And they would still find a way. They would say, nope, the window was curved and so.

[Andy Stumpf]

Or fisheye lens.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, exactly. And so there's no. You can't argue with these or debate with these people because they're not open to changing their stance.

[Andy Stumpf]

Is it even worth then engaging in conversation with somebody who is unwilling to at least critically view their belief system?

[Michael Shelton]

I think for a little bit, just to kind of prod and see how far you can push their beliefs. Um, but at a certain point when you realize that it's useless, you have to say, okay, this isn't worth my time because I'm getting nowhere here. And then at that point, I usually just go, okay, and just give up trying to prove a point because it's. It's not worth it.

[Andy Stumpf]

I found an interesting technique that I haven't used that often, but it has worked every time that I do. And this is for a conversation or whatever it may be, but for somebody who's really passionate about a particular belief system and they want to. Sometimes it works with politics. I was actually doing this in 2024. You can tell they really want to talk about something that's passionate. Totally get it. And I'll actually open with, is there anything that I could say or show you that is capable of changing how you feel? Most of the time they'll say no.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And at that point in time, you have an understanding of the time you are about to put in and what you might actually get out of it.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's a wild feeling, though.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you have anything in your life? I mean, I can ask this to myself too. Is there anything in my life that I believe so deeply that I am unwilling to at least observe and critically think about that may change how I feel. I don't think I have any belief that is that concrete. I'm at least open and willing to hearing what somebody has to say. That doesn't mean I'm going to believe them. It doesn't mean they're going to change my mind. But I don't know of anything. I am so concrete in my beliefs that I would be unwilling to at least view from a different perspective.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay. I do have one that I've tried to view from a different perspective. And I cannot, I simply cannot accept that this is okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay.

[Michael Shelton]

The, like the argument that pedophilia is okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

I actually knew you were going to say that because as you were saying that I was thinking about it. No, I tell you what, actually, on that one I agree.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I, I cannot fathom how an objective and logical mind would ever even be willing to engage in a conversation of how sexual abuse of a minor, because what do they try to change it to? Minor attracted person.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

How about get fucked?

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, fuck you. How about that? Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, that's just a vernacular game, right? They're trying to, they're trying to make.

[Michael Shelton]

It sound more acceptable.

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't know exactly what they're trying to do. They're trying to skirt around the actual issue.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

If you want to call yourself a minor attracted person, as long as in the dictionary that has an equal sign to pedophile, then we're talking about the same thing.

[Michael Shelton]

About the same thing.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, Yeah. I cannot fathom anybody who could ever try to argue for the validity or legitimacy of that. And I still, I would like to put this out there again. I am willing to offer my services to skin pedophiles with a potato peeler. I'll drag it out. I will. We could do medical intervention to try to have them last as long as humanly possible.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I am willing. I will do it for free.

[Michael Shelton]

That sounds like a good deal.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think it's a great deal.

[Michael Shelton]

People can make use of that service, unfortunately. Yeah, it is unfortunate.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's. That's the rough part. Unfortunately. They probably could make use of that service. Yeah, I agree with you on that one. I, I just can't see an angle to approach that one.

[Michael Shelton]

No.

[Andy Stumpf]

And maybe there's other ones out there that I'm not thinking about off the top of my head, but for that one, as you were saying that, I was thinking. Yeah, yeah, I bet I know where he's going with this. Yeah, we Strayed off. We strayed off.

[T Mobile Representative]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

That was a.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's okay.

[Michael Shelton]

That's okay, though. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

What advice do you have for a young man or woman when it comes to social, making friends and being in a social environment in general? I mean, that's kind of the, the crux of I'm having some trouble making friends and being social in general. What advice would you give somebody you're younger in life to your generation? What would you say?

[Michael Shelton]

I mean, it does go back to, you just have to be comfortable with yourself. And it's not an easy thing to.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do though, when you're raised in this competitive environment of, look at me, look what I have, look what I did.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, but it's. If you're not comfortable with yourself, it's going to be very difficult to even go up and talk to somebody without thinking, oh, I'm going to look like an idiot, I'm going to say something stupid. All these things that go through your head when in reality, like, just go up and start talking, you know, and if you find a commonality with that person, you can just go down that rabbit hole and it's like, yeah, I would say at the very least you have to start to be comfortable with who you are.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. I only gotta add one thing. When you said going, you know, go into a social circle and you just start talking, I will say you got two ears in one mouth. Use. Use them in that ratio.

[Michael Shelton]

Yes.

[Andy Stumpf]

Don't try to. I would say don't try to overwhelm or be overbearing in the conversation. And before, like, if you're in a group of new people, before you jump in, just listen a bit. You know what I mean? I'd find the natural time and break to interact.

[Michael Shelton]

Don't force it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, if you do force it, you might end up with people looking at you like, hey man, you're acting pretty fucking stupid.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, there's a bunch of wild hypothesis we have to make here in conjecture with this, but that I have found can help too. I look at it from a social perspective of being in these environments. Which person generally interests me more, the person who's dominating the conversation or the person who is listening to the conversation and picks and chooses their time to actually become involved? And the things that they say, they say less, but the things that they are saying are more impactful and more meaningful.

[Michael Shelton]

I can tell you which one is more endearing.

[Andy Stumpf]

Which one?

[Michael Shelton]

The guy who's not talking as much.

[Andy Stumpf]

I actually think the person who's not talking as much is more endearing.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. But in addition, that's the person I'm more likely, I think, to listen to because they're sitting there and they're considering what they're saying, they're understanding the social cues, they're waiting for the appropriate time, and they're okay with not dominating the conversation. That's the person who's more comfortable in their skin, for sure. Or actually they could be just perhaps more introverted as well. But yeah, I would say take it slow. And if you find yourself in a social circle that just doesn't seem to be treating you in the way that you want to be treated, just go find another one.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. Maybe get out.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. It's one of the things about the flat Earth community, which maybe I spend a little bit too much time making fun of. And I don't want to make fun of anybody for their beliefs. But I've said this before too, watching some of those documentaries. You know, they have gatherings, they have get togethers, they have seminars, I guess would be a good word for it.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

The people that are there are really enthusiastic about being there and they're there with their friends and they're kind of connecting over a belief that most people would say is a little bit fringe, but I think it's more about the community aspect.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. And I think that applies to a lot of groups with a similar belief system.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. And so there's a group out there for you. Am I saying go join the flat Earth community? If you want to.

[Michael Shelton]

If you want to. Just be prepared for even more ridicule.

[Andy Stumpf]

From outside of that community.

[Michael Shelton]

Yes. But that community, inside that community, I'm sure they'll put up walls. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

It'll be like the Vatican. 40 footers. You know what I mean?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you ever see the Mission Impossible where Tom Cruise went over the Vatican wall?

[Michael Shelton]

No, I haven't seen any Mission Impossible movie.

[Andy Stumpf]

Really?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

You can spend a day going through. I think number eight's getting ready to come out. I think it's called the Final Reckoning.

[Michael Shelton]

So is it going to be the final movie or.

[Andy Stumpf]

Probably depends on how it does at the box office. Might be the final. Final reckoning. Yeah. Tom Cruise is cranking out some. Some movies.

[Michael Shelton]

That really is.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

Speaking of belief systems.

[Andy Stumpf]

Oh, my God. My lord. I just did on Change Agents, interview with David Miscavige's niece.

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, wow.

[Andy Stumpf]

So his brother's daughter. All of which have left Scientology. Fascinating is a gentle and polite word for it.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. I Might actually listen to that one.

[Andy Stumpf]

She has an E meter. And she asked if she could come do an episode where she audits me on the E meter, which I was.

[Michael Shelton]

Like, that would be awesome.

[Andy Stumpf]

I'd be like, let's go.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Because it's two thirds of a lie detector test. I'm like, I don't give a. I'll tell people anything.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. All right. Today's episode is brought to you by Mando. They make deodorant, people. I'm 47 years old. I had not tried spray deodorant until earlier this year. Actually, I take that back. It was in late 2024 when the product showed up. I don't know why I thought stick deodorant was the only way to go. It's not Mando. They make some pretty awesome stuff that you can take anywhere and use anytime. And it's for your entire body. I have this in, actually, my laptop bag. This is their acidified deodorant wipes. And sometimes after Jiu jitsu, you don't have a lot of time to take a shower. But you don't have to be gross. You can clean yourself up a little bit. And that's actually how I have been using those. So specifically, what is Mando? I'm going to dive right into some of these talking points. It is whole body deodorant. These are the points or the bullet points that they said I could use. Pits, balls, thigh folds, belly buttons, butt cracks, and feet. Their words, not mine. I haven't tried them on all those locations, but you feel free to go ahead. You party how you like to party. They were created. It was created by a doctor who saw firsthand how BO, or body odor was being misdiagnosed and mistreated. It's clinically proven to block odor all day and control odor for up to 72 hours. That's pretty awesome, actually, especially if you're pressed on time or maybe if you're traveling and you forgot almost everything, but you're able to throw one of these bad boys in your travel kit. All the products are baking soda free and paraben free, and there are a variety of fresh scents like bourbon, leather, clover woods, Mount Fuji, or pro sport. I don't know how you bottle a mountain, but it does smell good. That's actually the spray deodorant that I use. I highly recommend that you check them out. And Mando's starter pack is the perfect place to start for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant for those of you who were stuck in the stone age like myself, a cream tube of deodorant and two free products of your choice like the mini body wash and the deodorant wipes. And free shipping. So as a special offer for listeners, new customers, get $5 off the starter pack with the exclusive code I'm about to give you that equates to over 40% off your starter pack. Using code cleared [e-mail] that is Shopmando S-H-O-P-M-A-N-D O.com. please support the show and let them know that I sent you there. Again, that is shopmando.com using the code cleared hot. You're gonna smell fresher, which is a good thing. Nobody wants to walk around smelling like ass. Go get you some. Let me see. I'm gonna check the third question. Cause we got. Okay, we talked a little bit about the military the first time we did one of these. And I was just kind of more curious to get your thoughts on like recruiting and things of that. This is a little bit more. This has a little bit more to do with internal workings of the. Not internal workings of military, but maybe we'll call it a philosophy associated with the military. So I'm going to read this. I'm curious to get your thoughts on this because I understand what these people, what this person is asking about. But I'm curious from somebody who wasn't in the military, if you think that this concept is ridiculous or you think that it has utility, okay, it's not. It's nothing crazy. I was having a conversation with my brothers in law. One's a retired Coastie, so Coast Guard, the other one's in the Air Force Reserve. And we were debating the current state of the military, which you and I kind of talked about on the last one. We all agreed that standards and accountability need to make a comeback. But the real question is, how do we get there? I pitched that. The key is refocusing on operational standards with real capability and training validation to ensure the right people are in the right role. So they're talking about realistic training based off the demands of, you know, I mean, downstream planning from the demands of the actual job itself. Right. This, this. Actually, I'm just explaining to you that portion of the question because where we're going next is where I'm curious how you feel about this. So operational standards, right? That is, what are the standards that each of the branches and each of the units inside of the military, what do they Actually need to be able to do what's their job, what are they designed to do? Real capability would be the ability to execute those operational standards. Training validation, meaning you're doing training evolutions that actually directly tie to.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay, I see.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's like if you're. I don't know anything about being on a battleship, and I know they're decommissioned, but let's say you were on a battleship and, hey, you need to be able to hit with your guns.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

But instead you go do a training exercise where, I don't know, you're doing Morse code signaling or something like that. One does not necessarily have to do with the other.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So training that is realistic in nature and helps validate the operational standards and capability. One of them argued that the recent emphasis on dress and appearance standards isn't just a distraction, it's actually the first step towards restoring accountability. So here's my question. What they're talking about is emphasis on small things. Military uniforms. You'd be shocked at the regulations. Your ribbons have to be a quarter of an inch above and centered over your left breast pocket with your warfare insignia either above or below that, the gig line on your belt, how your belt buckle aligns with your zipper.

[Michael Shelton]

So everything basically.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So I'm just giving you some examples. Okay, so here's the question. Do you think the focus on uniform and appearance changes is just a cosmetic distraction from real issues like readiness and competence, or could it be the foundation for rebuilding discipline and accountability across the force? And if you were king for a day, how would you prioritize tasks to fix the current state of the military capability and accountability? What do you think, Michael? Should we be focusing on things that go bang and boom, or do you start at an individual level? And I'll broadly say what this person is talking about is attention to detail.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. Well, I think you need to. To me, it seems like it would be good to start at that attention to detail level, because.

[Andy Stumpf]

If.

[Michael Shelton]

If that's not set, then you're building everything else on a shoddy base.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yes. Yes.

[Michael Shelton]

And if you have a shit foundation, then everything above that is going to be.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you have a contractor's license? Have you ever built anything?

[Michael Shelton]

I have actually poured the foundation, though.

[Andy Stumpf]

Was it a good one?

[Michael Shelton]

It was really bad.

[Andy Stumpf]

I totally agree with you.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. I mean, it's like. Have you heard of the broken windows theory?

[Andy Stumpf]

Refresh me. I might have.

[Michael Shelton]

So it's. Do you know who Malcolm Gladwell is?

[Andy Stumpf]

Yes.

[Michael Shelton]

So he wrote a book, and I don't think he's written.

[Andy Stumpf]

Many books are good.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, really good books. I don't know if he came up with this theory, but basically there was a study that it was about, like, graffiti in New York subways. And they. Instead of trying to crack down on the, like, actual people doing the graffiti, they went back, like, five steps and started repairing all of the, like, stalls that were out of use, boarding or undoing the board of windows and putting nice windows up and making everything look very nice. And from that, the graffiti and the crime and the. The stall jumping for not paying tickets went down drastically.

[Andy Stumpf]

Really?

[Michael Shelton]

Yes. And so it's like, okay, well, the environment is actually affecting the way people are behaving at that point. And so once you fix the environment, people's behavior starts to become better. And so this isn't obviously the exact same thing, but I think it goes for the same thing in the military or. I mean, I don't know, but I would assume once you start focusing on the smaller things, like your ribbons being in the right spot and your belt and all that stuff.

[Andy Stumpf]

And don't get me wrong, it's irritating and it's annoying, and it takes time. Yeah, but there's a purpose for why they have you do that.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andy Stumpf]

Have you ever heard the saying, how you do anything is how you do everything?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, actually, I was thinking of that saying as you were talking. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

So here's my experience with this. The focus. I think both things need to be true. There needs to be a focus on operational standards, capability, and training validation. That is true. So. And this is, I think, an instance of where both things can be and need to be true, like, at a level. To me, my personal opinion on the. On the military is it exists to execute the foreign policy of the United States of America and to defend our interests in the world. It needs to focus on its lethality, capability, efficiency, deployability, all of those things. Okay, but how do you do that in a military force that's comprised of just over a million people? I look back to Navy boot camp, which was eight weeks when I went through, and it was up in Great Lakes. The amount of time that we spent, I'll use the term mastering marching as a large boot camp division, and the verbal cues that you could do to go left and right and split and all of these things, and the amount of time that we spent preparing for the graduation, how you made your bed, hospital corners. And you didn't get to choose how you made a hospital corner. You were shown exactly how to do it, and then you had to do it like that every time. The way that you fold your T shirts, the way that you fold your underwear, the way that they have to align themselves in your footlocker, which is, you know, naval vernacular for a storage area. How you had your uniform, whether or not you shaved that day. They would rather have you bleeding on your face than have. I'm not joking, than have stubble. I distinctly remember because they would do barracks and uniform and personal inspections. I distinctly remember people saying, well, they can't ding you for bleeding when it came to shaving their face. And I remember thinking, I don't know if that's true, but there's, you know, and you had to understand and know history of the military, the general orders vernacular. And that is just the initial entry into just the Navy. And I'm sure each military has their own. Well, I know each military has their own boot camp. Yeah, I'd say it's their own flavor or version of that. Then you go into buds, right? Which people think is this high speed program where you're a SEAL at the end of it, which you're not. It is, it's a crucible. And you learn fourth grade tactics, you know, and. But every Monday, room inspection.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, as an instructor, you're looking for grains of sand, you're looking for dust in places that people wouldn't even think to clean. And for them to even get close to passing. They are sacrificing their entire weekend to clean. We're talking buffing floors, walking around barefoot or only in your socks, you know, T shirts and socks underneath the legs of the tables, underneath the like it's insane starched uniform hat. Which every time we see that, we're going to tell you to go get wet and sandy. So you ask yourself as a student, why am I expected to do this? Why are we doing this? And it all comes back to attention to detail. We're checking the sharp sharpness of their knife, their CO2 cartridges. Is there any rust on it whatsoever? As if anybody's getting into fucking knife fight on it. And a Buds ocean swim. And again, it's probably more likely going to be for cutting material or something like that if you needed to. But every single evolution had standards that from the outside might be considered completely and utterly ridiculous. And people, they would be justified if they haven't lived through it to say, why are you doing that?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And the answer is attention to detail. And like you said, if you build anything on a foundation that is rocky or substandard, you can't expect what you build on top of that. How can you expect somebody at an operational level focusing on real capability and training validation? How can you have complicated training exercise that is designed towards operational standards if the individual is responsible for taking those actions, are no longer being held accountable for their attention to detail? What does it matter if my uniform doesn't look good? You can extrapolate that upstream to what? You know, you're a mechanic on an airplane. You know, like this quarter inch socket fits. It fits okay. You know, do I really need to go back and get the exact one that's designated for this particular bolt on an F18? Not that I know about an F18 or whether or not they even use volts? I'm assuming they do. And instead maybe they. They horsepowered on there, right?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And it. Maybe you get away with it, maybe you don't. Maybe it leads to a catastrophic accident. Hopefully the pilot ejects. But an aircraft worth, you know, tens of millions of dollars is now at the bottom of the ocean. We can work that all the way back to attention to detail. Military life is not the easiest life. It's also not the hardest life either. And there's a lot of benefit that comes from it. And people who come out of the military, especially those who can grasp how you do anything is how you do everything. This attention to detail, you can demolish other people and their maximum work effort with minimal effort on your own, because you understand the importance of doing things sequentially, being on time, showing up at the right place at the right time with the right equipment. So I think it's both. But discipline starts at that micro level, at least in my opinion. You know, I always fuck this one up. I think it's McRaven. He gave the make your bed every morning speech.

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. So is it a college graduation commencement speech, I believe they call it. I wouldn't know because I've never been to one or attended a single day of higher education because I am an idiot. So he gave this speech about, you know, when you get up in the morning, make your bed. The first thing you do every day is make your bed. And I bet you parents rejoiced and showed that to their kids. And I think it's possible to miss the overarching point there. And that is actually start your day with something that is disciplined.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

If you make your bed, and I've done this so many times, you make your bed in the morning and you come back like, whatever your day gets out of control and you come back and you're exhausted. It's so nice to just be able to throw the covers back and just get in bed and go to sleep. Versus you don't make your bed in the morning. And then maybe you had a pile of laundry that you pulled out, put it in a hamper and you dumped it onto your bed instead of folding it and putting it away. Then. Then you go live your day, which turns into a shit show, and you come back and there's clothes all over your bed and you just want to go to sleep. So the move there obviously is just kick it all off into the floor and do it later. I think it was either Jocko or Goggins that said, never do today what you can put off until tomorrow. I think it was one of those two.

[Michael Shelton]

So I lived my life by that.

[Andy Stumpf]

Saying, yeah, you know how many people do live their life by that? Oh, yeah, I'm as guilty of this as anybody else, by the way too. I'm just talking about that value of discipline. It's not about making your bed. It's about making a decision to do something that is disciplined at an ind. It's super small. It's at a micro level. Yeah, but what if you pair another micro thing on top? Okay, so you make your bed, then you go and you slam a glass of water. You're working on your hydration because people don't know this. You wake up relatively dehydrated because you're inhaling and exhaling all night long. Right. The body water's escaping. Then, you know, maybe do some meal prep or whatever it is. You can start building momentum on these little things. And it's the same thing with military service. If you're going to have young men and women, which most people, there's a lot of people in the military who are in their late teens and early 20s in roles that are highly consequential. They have to understand the value of accountability, discipline. And that starts at that level of when you onboard into the military. So yes, fucking 20 minute answer to this person's question. Yeah, it's absolutely essential. But both things need to be true. It needs to be on both sides at the strategic and operational level and at the individual onboarding level. If I was king for a day to answer that question, I think I would strip away everything that doesn't have directly to do with standards. What is the military? What is it designed to do? What does it exist for? That is where that's our target. Everything that we do, we start Planning backwards, which would align directly with what I've been saying. That's the discipline, the accountability, the onboarding and boot camp, all of those things. That's what I would. That's what I would work it back towards. And I actually got it. Do you know Rory Singer, one of the Singer brothers?

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, I think I've met him before.

[Andy Stumpf]

They're black belts out of Georgia. He sent me a voice message this morning. He was asking about. He's listening to a podcast and it essentially said, do we need to have a military that is reflective of society in the United States? And what I think he means is, like, if you were to take a snapshot picture of the military, would it look similar to a snapshot picture of society? And I was thinking about it, and my answer to that and what I wrote back to him was, if we have a military that visually is reflective of society, cool. But that only. That should not be. We shouldn't be aiming towards that. If we aim towards our standards and work our way back and it ends up looking like that, awesome.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

But if it doesn't end up looking like that, I don't have an issue with that either.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. As long as standards are met.

[Andy Stumpf]

As long as standards are met. So I don't think we should be targeting it looking exactly like our society. We should be targeting. Looking at. From the perspective of what is the actual role and responsibility, and if it does align with that, awesome.

[Michael Shelton]

Great. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

What people hate to hear, but is completely and utterly true, is that not all human beings are created equal.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Andy Stumpf]

Not everybody is going to be able to play in the NBA or play be a professional athlete. Not everybody's going to be able to get into an Ivy League school. Not everybody's going to be able to qualify for the military. Even inside of the military, not everybody's gonna be able to qualify for whatever role that they want to. And that's just the way that the cookie crumbles.

[Michael Shelton]

Yes.

[Andy Stumpf]

So I'm all about equality of opportunity. I think focusing on equality of outcome is ridiculous and a path to heaven. It's just a path to destruction. But you'd be surprised how many people would argue for just as much equality of outcome. And I don't understand it. I mean, whatever. They can have their beliefs. I have my own. But yeah, it has to. It starts at that individual level.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

[Andy Stumpf]

What do you. Your generation, younger generation, outside of the military, how much do you guys talk about discipline and accountability?

[Michael Shelton]

Not at all. Like, zero.

[Andy Stumpf]

Interesting.

[Michael Shelton]

With one or two of my friends. We're very much on the same page of basically taking accountability for your actions, attention to detail, all this stuff. I was fortunate that my parents enforced that my whole life. I. I have a story. We were stacking wood because we had. We had a wood burning stove.

[Andy Stumpf]

Very Montana story.

[Michael Shelton]

Very Montana. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

We were wild horses running by and.

[Michael Shelton]

No, we did have donkeys in the yard, though. Or in the past year.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's. That is not the same thing.

[Michael Shelton]

I know similar.

[Andy Stumpf]

You had ass.

[Michael Shelton]

We had lots of ass.

[Andy Stumpf]

So you're just slaying ass in this story.

[Michael Shelton]

No, but we're stacking wood. And me and my brothers, of which.

[Andy Stumpf]

There are far too many shell types.

[Michael Shelton]

There are three.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

And we are doing a job. We're just throwing it in there.

[Andy Stumpf]

How old are you guys?

[Michael Shelton]

I was probably 10. So they were all younger than that.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Just trying to get it done.

[Michael Shelton]

Just trying to get it done. And it was cold outside. It was fucking cold. And so we. We're almost done. We're like, to the last couple pieces of wood and dad comes by, he goes, what's this? And we were like, well, we're just stacking it. And he goes, all right. He goes in there. He throws every piece out. He goes, all right, do it again. And we're just like, that's rough at that age. Yeah. At that age. I was like, I hate you. Why would you ever do that?

[Andy Stumpf]

I will hate you for the remainder of my life. You will never be on my good side ever again.

[Michael Shelton]

But then looking back, it's like, wow, that actually. Because that sticks in my mind a lot and not in a bad way.

[Andy Stumpf]

Here's something that I try to reinforce to all three of my kids, and I think this might go into the one ear category and out the other. It actually takes longer to do things wrong.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Because you end up redoing it. Like you just explained. Had you just stacked it, you'd be inside.

[Michael Shelton]

You would be inside.

[Andy Stumpf]

But by doing it wrong, then you have to take the time to fix the mistake. And the doing it wrong is almost always pitched through the lens of. Or it is. It's not pitched through the lens. It is justified through the lens of trying to save time. It'll be faster if we just do this. Until you realize you're going to have to do it again.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's almost always quicker just to do it right. As much as it drives you nuts, it'll save you. It'll save you the time of having to do it over and over again.

[Michael Shelton]

That was a constant saying on the Shelton household.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do.

[Michael Shelton]

Right the first time.

[Andy Stumpf]

I think it was Tyler once I've had this conversation with him, and it was about, what are you supposed to do when the toilet paper roll is empty in the bathroom? Right. Let's talk about doing it right the first time.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Take the toilet paper roll with you to grab a new one and throw it out on the way.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Right. It's a. It's a trip. One trip.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Versus two he messed around with. I'm not gonna do that. And I'm also not going to take the time to store any more toilet paper because I would tell him, hey, when you. When you leave, take the empty roll and grab two more. You're always going to be set up. Doesn't take any more time. So he kept only grabbing one. And I remember hearing him inside of his bathroom with the door closed. Dad, dad, I'm out of toilet paper. Can you get me some?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I said, no, son, I can't.

[Michael Shelton]

You're on your own.

[Andy Stumpf]

Because we've talked about this every time that your toilet. And at that point, there was probably four empty toilet paper rolls.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

One behind the toilet, one on. Of course he will. So there's the roll. He'll jam another empty roll down next to it, then make a pyramid with the third empty roll, and then put a roll of toilet paper on top of that, which will fall off and end up on the floor somewhere. None of those are indicators or warning signs to him that, hey, maybe he should just.

[Michael Shelton]

We're getting a little low here.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Or just throw all this away and grab some more. So I took great pleasure in listening to him. I think it was for about 5 to 10 minutes. Dad.

[Michael Shelton]

Dad.

[Andy Stumpf]

And I'm just waiting for him to solve it on his own.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, like, you got socks, you got a T shirt on. How much do you like. Let's solve the issue. There's a rug in your bathroom.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Just do it right the first time.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, that's. I agree.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. I don't know how we got on the topic.

[Michael Shelton]

I don't know either.

[Andy Stumpf]

But that was one of my more prouder parenting moments. All right. A lot of us may see I'm currently struggling with motivation and more importantly, in confidence and financial concerns. Those issues affect all areas of my life. But I'm moving, and moving really fucking sucks. I agree. Especially local moves. Local moves are worse than long distance moves because it never ends. On top of the problems above my OCD is a huge hurdle. I need to overcome the logistics of moving. I'm a single dude in my 40s who struggles asking for help. I'm only moving from one apartment to another. Oh, man. So it's a local move.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I'm able to live in the new place and it's quite comfortable and clean. However, the opposite is true for my old place. Right now I've got almost all of my. All of the heavy stuff moved, but it's still riddled with random shit. So some of it I'll keep and some of it I'll donate or throw away. To be clear, it's about 15 years of accumulated shit. Outdoor gear, random tools and stuff I thought I'd find a use for as well as general household items. I realize this doesn't seem to be a significant problem from the outside, but I'm not on the outside. Whenever I enter the old place, I shut down and end up just ignoring the mess until I find an excuse to leave. I have until the end of February to finish this. So where are we at? Yeah, this comes out on the 13th. You're gonna have some time. Hopefully this helps. I'm hoping you can share your thoughts on how I can tackle this and hopefully others can apply the same process to problems they may be experiencing.

[Michael Shelton]

Okay.

[Andy Stumpf]

Local move 50. I mean, there's actually a couple ways that I want to hit this one with.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And this is one that Leah doesn't listen to the show often. I think I've said this so I'm comfortable saying this. I'll throw stuff away when she's not home.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

The accumulation of stuff in your life is amazing.

[Michael Shelton]

You fall back to the really is.

[Andy Stumpf]

The great philosopher Brad Pitt. You know, the things that you own end up owning you. And movie Fight Club, which I doubt you've seen. And it's so true. If you don't throw things away, you will be buried at some point in your life in your own pile of bullshit that you thought was gonna have value and never did.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And if you wanna crush yourself even more emotionally, just look at it from the cost and the money expenditure of all those things that you thought you were gonna use and you weren't. And how much more beneficial if that money was sitting in your bank account or an investment account.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. Local move. One place is a shit show, Michael. The other place is looking pretty good. What are your thoughts?

[Michael Shelton]

I know exactly what he's talking about, actually. So, yeah, when I. I've actually moved like three times in the last year and a half.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah, but you also do like, an extensive amount of house sitting. So I don't even know if you can call that moving.

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, no, I move my shit. It.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you move your. Into the other person's house?

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, right now I have it in the house because it's. It's like, for four months.

[Andy Stumpf]

Why don't you just use their stuff?

[Michael Shelton]

Well, because I need my clothes.

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, other than your clothes.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, I don't move everything. I just move my clothes and my guitar pretty much.

[Andy Stumpf]

I didn't know you play guitar.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

How long have you been playing?

[Michael Shelton]

Quite a while, but it's been off and on.

[Andy Stumpf]

Are you any good?

[Michael Shelton]

I am approaching mediocre.

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't even know what that means from a guitar perspective. But again, tell me about these, because you're, like, a busy beat. You're all over the valley.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. I really am.

[Andy Stumpf]

So actually wanted AD Michael is looking for a girlfriend and also a place to house sit. I feel like both are acceptable.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

I mean, I'm gonna recommend not finding both of those in the same place.

[Michael Shelton]

Sounds like a bad idea.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

No, but, yeah, I know exactly what you're going through. My. So for the clutter. Right. Because I had that when I first moved out of my. What's it called? When it's basically just a room in a kitchen, studio.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay.

[Michael Shelton]

Apartment. I took a trash bag and I went through. I started at, like, one corner of the house. Just went through everything and said, do I need this? Nope. And I was very generous with what I didn't need.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

I was like, nope, I can just buy another one.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you have a criteria that you use?

[Michael Shelton]

If it's less than $10, I go.

[Andy Stumpf]

With every six months. If I haven't touched this in six.

[Michael Shelton]

Months, that's also a good one.

[Andy Stumpf]

What is the likelihood that I need to continue having this?

[Michael Shelton]

Yep. And I threw away probably two or three trash bags worth of stuff because I was like, I don't need this. And if I ever do need it, it's like $3. And I don't want to move it because it's just another thing.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

And even though it's small, like, maybe it's. It was a dish brush or something that an extra one I had. Nope, don't need it.

[Andy Stumpf]

One is none, two is one.

[Michael Shelton]

Exactly. Well, I found that out when I moved into the next place and I needed the dish brush.

[Andy Stumpf]

What happened to the dish brush you had? You said that was the extra one.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, I don't know. That is gone, so. But I still was not. I was like, Annoyed in the moment, but I was like, honestly, it saved me hassle throwing all of that away, so. But, yeah, the local moves suck. But you just need to get down to it. Put the podcast on, put some headphones in.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

And you literally just need to do the work. There's a weekend. And do it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. There's also a way that you can kind of mentally approach this that I think will help people. I've talked about this one a bunch. It's just called, you know, chunking your goals.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Not my. Not my creation by any stretch, but something that has helped me a lot in my life. If you go into an. God, the number of times I've moved is unbelievable.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And local moves truly are the worst because you just back and forth, back and. Okay, it's gonna be two more. Two more trips, and then it's six. Like, I. I cannot get this to end. So what he is describing is becoming overwhelmed. So instead of going into the apartment and looking at every single room, what I would say for you is to set a very targeted goal and decide on something small that you're gonna do. Go in, accomplish it, and get out of there. And then set another goal. Go in, accomplish it, get out of there, go and accomplish it. If you just go in there and you look at everything, you.

[Michael Shelton]

Overwhelming.

[Andy Stumpf]

It is overwhelming. And that's why people give up on things. That's actually why they give up on their goals of becoming a SEAL or making it through training. It's how they view where they are in life and the distance to where they think they need to be to achieve their goal. And in this case, you're looking at the entire apartment. Everybody has a different tolerance when it comes to biting off what they can chew. So you could say, go in and just finish the kitchen, and then we'll leave it at that for the day. Or then readdress your goal. Go in, do the bathroom, go and do one bedroom. But just don't view it from. I have to do the entire apartment. This does come out. February. What is the day today? 12th. This comes out the 14th, which is Valentine's Day. What are you doing for Valentine's Day, Michael?

[Michael Shelton]

Nothing.

[Andy Stumpf]

If somebody wanted to send you a valentine, when would they send it?

[Michael Shelton]

Nope. No.

[Andy Stumpf]

No. What?

[Michael Shelton]

Don't send me anything.

[Andy Stumpf]

What if they wanted. What if they wanted you to be their Valentine?

[Michael Shelton]

No. The answer is no.

[Andy Stumpf]

To everybody.

[Michael Shelton]

Yes to the world.

[Andy Stumpf]

The answer to the world is no, I won't be your valentine.

[Michael Shelton]

Yes.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's a sad existence.

[Michael Shelton]

It's. It's not permanent. But right now, the answer is no.

[Andy Stumpf]

Unbelievable.

[Michael Shelton]

Why are we talking about this?

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't know. Because this comes out on Valentine's Day.

[Michael Shelton]

Oh, yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

You're going to have 28 days in February. Last time I checked, except for leap years, they had a day in February. I don't think it's a leap year.

[Michael Shelton]

I don't think so.

[Andy Stumpf]

So you're going to have two weeks. Dude, you can knock an apartment out in two weeks. Spend an hour a day. So there's another way you can look at it, too. Go for one hour and get done what you can get done in one hour. But you have to make sure you're working during that time period. I guarantee you you're going to be done.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

And you can pair that with, okay, I'm going to do an hour in the kitchen. Get out of there. Work. Get out of there the next day you're not done, an hour in the kitchen, and then move on. And I think you'll be okay. Being overwhelmed sucks. I've been there so many times. And I hate to say this, too. It's totally optional because you can reframe how you view your goals and you. You can completely control how you're thinking about it. Your brain, if it's anything like mine, will keep trying to slip back towards this. Like, oh, this is too much. Yeah, we should probably give up. Don't you have something better to do? Isn't there something on Instagram that you need to be looking at as opposed to just fight, Fight. You're your own worst enemy. I think everybody kind of is. But, yeah, chunk it into something that is digestible. That's the best advice I can give. It works in almost every aspect of your life.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Works in jiu jitsu. Right. You Five minute roll.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Let's say you're getting absolutely smashed. One of the worst things that you can do is actually look over at the clock to see how much time you have left. Because the only conversation you're going to have in your head is, how long can I tolerate this for? Just make it through the moment.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, dude. Like, you just. I mean, I have gotten better about that of just continuing, like, even when I'm getting smashed.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

Just keep being defensive. Keep looking for those opportunities.

[Andy Stumpf]

If you start looking for the clock, you are in trouble.

[Michael Shelton]

Then, you know you've already given up at that point. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Well, you're looking for a reason to not fight.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

You're looking for a reason to surrender.

[Michael Shelton]

Yep. Like, oh, there's only 30 seconds left.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

Or anything.

[Andy Stumpf]

There's three minutes and 30 seconds left. This really sucks. Let's just move on and do something else like. Or fight your way out of it or survive.

[Michael Shelton]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

Road trips. You know, you can look at it and do a 500 mile road trip and count or you know, and have your little GPS up that says 499 more to go, 498 more to go. Or you could turn that thing off and just drive and enjoy the drive.

[Michael Shelton]

Yep.

[Andy Stumpf]

You know, or chunk it into. Set your GPS up for it's. It's 100 miles and you do it 100 miles at a shot. It's actually incredible the impact that it has on things that seem unachievable, that can become very achievable. And the only thing you're changing is how you view it.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. You're chunking into smaller pieces.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's all it is.

[Michael Shelton]

I've also found that if you start doing something you will keep yourself busy like for like housework or something. Or like if I have laundry and dishes and whatever else.

[Andy Stumpf]

The trifecta.

[Michael Shelton]

The trifecta. And if I just start doing something at the end of one task, I'll automatically just switch to another task as opposed to if I keep putting off, I'll never do anything. So if you just start doing something.

[Andy Stumpf]

Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow.

[Michael Shelton]

So true.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

But yeah, just get. You, you honestly just do have to get after it for that movie. Yeah. I guess that is a jocko quote.

[Andy Stumpf]

But yeah. Do you have any more reasonable terms that you could use? Something for people down the middle of the road?

[Michael Shelton]

Just start doing it. Just go.

[Andy Stumpf]

You're getting after it. As the security guard at the coffee shop. What time do you get up in the day?

[Michael Shelton]

4.

[Andy Stumpf]

Time you go to bed.

[Michael Shelton]

8.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yep. You're basically 70 inside.

[Michael Shelton]

Basically. I get eight hours though and I notice when I don't get eight hours, what happens? My energy level will drastically drop off around 3:00.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah.

[Michael Shelton]

If I don't get eight hours, like I need to sleep.

[Andy Stumpf]

You'll augur in.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. Yep. But if I get eight hours, I'm good up until six or seven. I could start winding down and go to bed at 8.

[Andy Stumpf]

What's your wind down routine? Do you do like a chamomile tea? Do you have like a chant or a mantra?

[Michael Shelton]

I do really like tea actually.

[Andy Stumpf]

But do you take a bath with like one of those bath bombs?

[Michael Shelton]

No, no, I just read, read a little bit. Go on my phone Probably a little bit too much.

[Andy Stumpf]

Unbelievable.

[Michael Shelton]

And then go to bed.

[Andy Stumpf]

It's not very Sigma of you.

[Michael Shelton]

I'm not claiming to be a Sigma male.

[Andy Stumpf]

I forget you were telling me that Sigma is better than Alpha.

[Michael Shelton]

Sigma is the best.

[Andy Stumpf]

Okay.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah.

[Andy Stumpf]

All right.

[Michael Shelton]

I would love to do a. A Gen Z Terms tour with you and see what you know and don't know, because it's hilarious.

[Andy Stumpf]

I don't know anything that my daughter doesn't use. She introduces me to the term slowly, and then I just use them at random intervals in front of her at times that I'm pretty sure are inappropriate to make her uncomfortable.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, but it's so funny.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if there was a large vernacular shift from when I was growing up with my parents. I feel like we largely talked in the same way.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah. I feel like fad words come and go in terms and such, but.

[Andy Stumpf]

Yeah. What else you got for this negligent discharge? Friday?

[Michael Shelton]

I don't have anything. I. No, it was good.

[Andy Stumpf]

Send Valentine's to the coffee shop address to Michael.

[Michael Shelton]

If you're gonna send them anywhere, that's where you would.

[Andy Stumpf]

Address to Michael. Yes.

[Michael Shelton]

Yeah, sure, whatever. Yeah, go for it.

[Andy Stumpf]

Do you get back to people if they send you Valentine?

[Michael Shelton]

No, honestly, we'll probably go in the trash.

[Andy Stumpf]

Piece of shit.

[Michael Shelton]

All right.

[Andy Stumpf]

That's all I got for this week.

[Michael Shelton]

Right. Perfect.

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[Michael Shelton]

No.

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