Ride it Until the Wheels Fall Off | Travis Pastrana | Ep. 439

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cleared Hot – "Ride it Until the Wheels Fall Off" with Travis Pastrana (Ep. 439)

Host: Andy Stumpf
Guest: Travis Pastrana
Date: March 30, 2026

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Overview

In this lively, layered episode, Andy Stumpf sits down with action sports legend Travis Pastrana. The conversation traverses Pastrana’s remarkable career—his racing stories, risk philosophy, parenting, injuries, and redefining what “living every day to the fullest” really means. The episode is a deep dive into what fuels people who push limits, how they manage risk, and what it means to “ride it until the wheels fall off”—not just in sport, but in life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NASCAR & Competitive Mindset (00:20–16:52)

• Pastrana shares his latest adventures in NASCAR, notably at Daytona, highlighting the complexities of drafting and team strategies:
  • Drafting explained: “Drafting is something that didn’t fall into any motorcycle racing or any rally or anything I’ve ever done.” (02:09)
  • The strategy of sitting at the back to avoid early crashes, hoping for attrition in the field to move up late in the race.
  • The competitive culture of NASCAR: “So when you say competitive, that is what NASCAR is.”
  • Stories of partnering with drivers like Tony Stewart (“greatest guy on earth”) and race personalities like Cletus McFarlane—balancing fun and competition.
  • Humorous honesty from his daughter about his skills: “Dad, are you going to be competitive? Because I know you’re not really good…” (00:29)
  • Adapting his approach and dealing with disappointment: “I promise you, if you came down, I’d get in the hunt. And we never did. It was disappointing.” (13:02)

2. The Path Not Taken: Racing as a Career (16:52–26:11)

• Pastrana’s path from motocross to NASCAR, and why he ultimately stepped away:
  • “I didn’t quit NASCAR because it was boring… I stopped doing it because I wasn’t good enough to be where I wanted to be without sacrificing everything else in my life.” (17:19)
  • On sidetracking into different disciplines, seeking out discomfort and growth.
• Comparing disciplines: the difference between dirt and pavement racing—F1/IndyCar’s precision (OCD-like focus) vs. dirt’s chaos and adaptability.
  • “In dirt, you don’t lose as much for being aggressive. In pavement, there’s a certain amount of grip level. As soon as you break that, even if you don’t crash, you’re losing time.” (25:00)
  • Homage to fellow drivers and the camaraderie/rivalry.

3. Risk, Decision-Making, and 'Performing at the Edge' (29:48–48:54)

• Travis dissects his risk threshold:
  • “I perform my best when shit hits the fan, that’s my happy place.” (31:19)
  • The fine line between genius and recklessness—being durable, making decisions at critical moments, and how fatherhood recalibrates risk.
  • Story of his daughter’s perspective: “I don’t know that I want to be the best at anything… I just want to have fun with my friends.” (32:49)
  • How passion and competition can coexist with healthy boundaries and self-awareness.

4. Parenting, Legacy, and Growing Up Pastrana (51:16–62:11)

• Reflections on raising kids amid fame, risk, and high expectations:
  • Contrasts his own upbringing and how his daughters’ values and motivations differ.
  • “You have to know every rule before you break any.” (52:11)
  • The unique experience of fame at racing events—his kids’ disinterest and self-contained worlds.
  • “The only way to outshine everyone was to jump off the higher bridge or do more flips. And I realized I was extremely durable.” (36:41)
  • The legacy of competitive family history—expectations and the burden it creates for the next generation.

5. Criticism, the Internet, and Mental Health (53:14–62:11)

• Navigating social media’s double-edged sword:
  • Pastrana recounts online criticism, learning not to take anonymous judgments personally.
  • “The cyberbullying thing is pretty real… Rogan says, he doesn’t know anybody in his life who’s happy and successful who is tearing people down on the internet.” (57:00)
  • The pressure of public expectation for sports figures and the surreal experience of hearing strangers express “hopes that you’d crash and die,” then ask for autographs. (60:52)
  • “Sports figures aren’t real people? Like, we are real people; we take it personally.”

6. Risk Calculus, Elite Mindsets, and Military Parallels (71:16–77:23)

• Pastrana on teaching elite military teams how to backflip a dirt bike—highlighting the mindset of high-achieving units:
  • “Every single member of the unit landed a backflip within their first two tries.” (71:16)
  • Discussion with Andy on how the best learners override fear by trusting expertise and immersing in fundamentals.
  • Parallels between action sports and special operations in terms of risk management, composure under stress, and “getting it done.”

7. Injuries, Recovery, and Brain Health (78:34–93:50)

• Detailing injuries:
  • Debunking the viral “Pastrana X-ray”—“I almost feel bad even saying no to this now. But I’m not a liar.” (80:09)
  • Personal injury list: multiple replacements, surgeries, and legendary crashes.
  • Discussion of concussions, family neurological history, brain trauma science, and evolving understanding of CTE.
  • “Every human is very, very different… patients with 50+ concussions who are sharp at 70, and others changed forever after one.” (86:13)
  • The unexpected link between cholesterol, brain injury recovery, and the US military’s role in evolving concussion science. (88:08)

8. Passion, Purpose, and Reframing Success (135:33–148:41)

• What’s Pastrana most proud of?
  • Not records or medals, but “traveling the world with my best friends and family, making a living on kids’ toys.”
  • “I was 16, won everything, and I was the loneliest I’ve ever been. …I accomplished everything that year and didn’t know what to do.” (137:27)
• On supporting others, evolving goals, and giving back—transitioning from ‘chasing the top’ to mentoring the next generation.
  • “If I believed I could do something … you have to be all in.”
  • On YouTube and bringing the fun back: “All of my pre-existing, like, not animosity, but jealousy… that’s what I won. …Being the best wasn’t what truly made me happy.” (146:29)

9. Building the Future: Wind Tunnel, YouTube, and Family Time (121:34–133:24)

• Craziest investments: buying the world’s largest outdoor wind tunnel (for Mission Impossible!) and struggling to run it at home ("I own a very expensive erector set." 121:34).
• Describing the fun and intention behind such projects—making memories with family, not just YouTube hits.
• “50% of the quality time I spend with my kids is on that trampoline.” (132:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On risk:
  “I perform my best when shit hits the fan, that's my happy place.” —Travis Pastrana (31:29)

• On finding fulfillment:
  “Being the best wasn’t what truly made me happy… fun for me was winning… but the journey was the exciting part.” —Pastrana (37:43, 148:41)

• On critiques & online hate:
  “The cyberbullying thing is pretty real… Rogan says… he doesn’t know anybody who is happy and successful that’s tearing people down on the internet.” —Andy Stumpf (57:00)

• On sharing the journey:
  “You have to know how to be liked to make that stuff work. But at the same time, you can’t hold it. You gotta just do what you think is the best that you can do.” —Pastrana (56:06)

• On family legacy:
  “Not very tough for a Pastrana, is he?” —Dr. Steele, about 10-year-old Travis (107:22)

• On legacy and burnout:
  “I was 16… won everything… and I was the loneliest I’ve ever been.” (137:27)

• On mentors and learning:
  “The best way to actually learn and to show respect to a coach is to do exactly what they tell you and nothing more.” —Andy Stumpf (73:35)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:20–16:52 | NASCAR adventures, strategy, and humor | | 17:19–26:11 | Why he left NASCAR and racing-path comparisons | | 29:48–48:54 | Risk-taking, decision-making, and edge performance | | 51:16–62:11 | Parenting, family legacy, and fame’s impact | | 71:16–77:23 | Teaching elite military—on learning, trust, and risk | | 78:34–93:50 | Injuries, injury myths, brain health, concussions | | 121:34–133:24 | The wind tunnel story, big toys, YouTube, time with kids | | 135:33–148:41 | What matters most—fulfillment, giving back, creating opportunities |

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Conclusion & Takeaways

The conversation wraps with a powerful, distilled life lesson from Travis Pastrana:

"If you're gonna go for it, freaking go for it. Because every single day that you spend doing something you love, it's not a wasted day." (151:05)

Andy and Travis agree: the stories and peaks are built on risk, connection, and fully investing in what brings joy and meaning—not just chasing a result, title, or the approval of others. The “wheels may fall off,” but if you love the ride, it’s always worth it.

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For listeners seeking a roadmap to living outside the comfort zone—this episode is a masterclass from two men who never took the easy path, and who learned that fulfillment is found not just at the top, but all along the winding, sometimes dangerous, road.

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Note: This summary omits all advertisements, intro/outro chatter, and remains faithful to the tone and flow of the original episode.

Transcript

[A]

Okay, got the red smoke. Sun runs north and south.

[B]

West of the smoke.

[A]

West of the smoke. Okay, copy. West of the smoke.

[B]

I'm looking at danger close now. Come on with it, baby.

[A]

Give it to me.

[B]

I mean, it cleared hot. Campaign cleared hot. Let's go more modern day.

[A]

First I want to hear about we already filming.

[B]

I don't know, it depends. Michael, did you hit the button? Yeah, we're going perfect. Nascar. How'd it go? That's the most recent thing you did right.

[A]

You know, I think my daughter said it the best, so I convinced her to come down to watch this NASCAR race. Anytime you race Daytona, I mean, I won my. I met Evil Knievel there. I won my first ever Supercross there. Daytona's just kind of a special place as far as racing and bike week and everything. Plus it's warm in the winter, so it's where our family kind of always went. My dad always had a Harley. So my daughter, she either was going to go to cheer to watch her sister or she was going to come down with me today. And she's like, ah, it's a. Which didn't seem like a toss up to me, but she's like kind of playing it back and forth. She goes, okay. She's like, but dad, are you going to be competitive? Because I know you're really not good. No, she's honest, like rear wheel drive and pavement. She's like, you're pretty bad at this. Like, am I just going to be bored watching you run around in 15th? And I'm thinking 15th will probably be decent for me. But I'm like, no. I'm like, we're going to get up there, we're going to get in the fight. But our strategy is to stay in the back and while all these guys take each other out, like the top 10 or so, people will generally crash out. So they start with the field of 40, 40, 42 and usually 25 finish in general. So I'm like, this is like the

[B]

lead up to the lay mullets that I. This is the brief I got from Bucky, right? He was like, dude, and if you can just get me a car that isn't totally jacked. Also, by the way, I'm not a good race car driver. So I'm like, yeah, I'll hang out in the back. Non consensually, but you did great.

[A]

We'll get to that in a second here. Let's finish this.

[B]

What you're describing though is the same thing. He was like, dude, they're all he's like, we're going to start with a bunch of cars. He goes, last year, like six finished.

[A]

Now let's take one step back and say, to stay on the lead lap at any event with the best drivers in the world is difficult. You have to. They are fighting. Especially Daytona.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Daytona, if you miss the draft, you're gone. And everyone in the back of that field is trying to get as few cars on that lead draft as possible. And it's the drafting is something that didn't fall into any motorcycle racing or any rally or anything I've ever done. So.

[B]

And just for clarity, you're talking about tucking up behind somebody and getting a little pull behind them when you say drafting there.

[A]

So I had a 400 page brief before the Daytona. 500, 400, 400 pages on where you could slow down cars where you could, where you could draft to slow down your whole row. Because they're talking about, hey, we want to get our teammates up here. So how can I slow down this row? So you can slow down the person in front of you. It slows down the person in front of them by simply being off different sides and different manufacturers actually draft slightly different. So if you're in a forward or it's. Anyway, so this is well past the

[B]

days of what people think. It was just rednecks making left hand turns, just banging into each other.

[A]

Now it's still rednecks making left hand turns. And I'll tell you, they're really, really good at it. Like, really good. It's down in every other sport that I go to, people say I'm over competitive. It's like that Meet the Fockers. Like it's just a game. Yeah. When I go to nascar and this is a. We've already been on five teams. I haven't got to my point, but I'm gonna finish this story. So I go down on a team. Team usa. I've got basically Kyle Busch. He says, look, we can't beat this one rally driver. He's just, he's faster than us at everything, you know. But I heard his buddies are here, they all want to drink. They're using this as party weekend. He's like, you're the best drinker on the team. I was like, he's like, let's just be realistic here. We need you to out drink these guys. I was like, all right. Like, we want Petter Solberg so drunk that he cannot stand up tomorrow. So at 4 o' clock in the morning, I did everything I could and had all my friends and all his friends better. Solberg, I mean one of my heroes, great dude. But he could not stand up. He would not have passed a breathalyzer. He could not physically walk out of his hotel room the next morning. Well, I get a call at 6am from Kyle and he's like, where are you? I'm like, I, I did my job. We're not supposed to be there till nine. He's like, get over here. So we get to the venue. He has every single of the different manufacturers race champions. So you got like eight different teams. And he has all the data and the info from all the teams and all the transponders. He's negotiated his way in. This is just their fun event. This is even like for their job. So when cars come out, he knows which cars are have been faster, which cars have been better, split times, which cars have new tires, warm tires, cold tires. And as we're going cuz he's in other cars and we kind of rotate through and the Team America is four of us and we're standing in the spot to make sure that the good cars go to our team or our next teammate. And we have all this data and all this and he's got it all figured out. So just mind you, this is for fun. So when you say competitive, that is what NASCAR is. So let me go back to this. My strategy is to sit back but stay on the, stay in the draft, which is extremely difficult. But stay out of trouble, which is also extremely difficult. I've got teammates kind of Tony Stewart, not on my team, but he's like smoke, greatest guy on earth, like soft of the earth. Awesome dude. Anything that you hear about him, yeah, he's competitive like all of my friends, but he has gone so far out of his way. He does so many charitable things, he does so many things to help people. And you never hear about any of this stuff because he doesn't care what other people think. He just, he wants to race, he wants to win, he wants to be driving a car and he's a good dude. So he goes, hey, I'll shake and bake with you. Well, Tony crashes out. Cletus McFarlane, lap seven. He was my shake and bake partner. He crashes out.

[B]

What happened there? He was talking a big game at his own race all lap seven. First off, I know that shit happens in these races, so obviously I'm joking.

[A]

I feel like we've gone on so many tangents here, but let's go. Cletus McFarlane, ladies and gentlemen, Cletus McFarlane enters a plane race and wins. He enters a jet boat race and gets second. Cletus McFarlane is one of the most competent driver rednecks. Let's just say rednecks in general.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

He can drive anything and he can drive it very competitively. So his. He's also very competitive. So his. His teammate this past year came out Hulsever and host of her is one of the top NASCAR drivers. Doesn't make any friends on the track. He brings his friends to the races. As he says, up and coming driving talent. 0f's given just going for it, going for it. But an amazing talent. So in general, we have a bunch of people and you know, live like Biff, unfortunately, tragic, horrible accident. Plane crash. Yeah. Greg Biffle, another salty earth guy, someone that I looked up to my whole career. And I feel like this is just one big tangent. We haven't even got to the whole story, but we started on.

[B]

But we could do the whole episode as a tangent. Nobody knows where we're going. We don't even know that's what I'm saying.

[A]

All right, so long story long, everyone that meets his Cletus goes, dude, this guy, he can drive. Does he have experience? No, but he's got his own NASCAR track in his backyard. Short. Short track. It's not drafting and that kind of stuff to no extent. A little bit drafting. Great driver, great dude. Brought fun back to racing for me. Someone, me as someone that everyone feels is living every day to the fullest in. In general. Like, you know, even with Black Rifle, like, hey, just leave the American shoe. I'm the only one on Black Rifle not a veteran or didn't have served. But I'm like, hey, let's. Let's try to have the most fun as possible. Let's bring as many people around as we can. But again, different tangents. So you have Cleese McFarlane. I kind of talked him up and got him bypassed a few rules and we are in the race. We got him a good car. You know, he out qualifies me. He out qualifies Stenhouse on our team. So he does. He's very. Is a student. I was like, all right, get through the gears, lock your elbows. Even if power steering goes. I mean, the entire field is separated by 3/10 of a second, so it's no mistakes. And he nails his lap absolutely perfect. Qualifies, you know, 12th. I think I qualify 14th.

[B]

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[A]

You know we have this really similar cars and restrict your plate. Racing isn't what the talent level you need for the other races. I'm a mid back of the pack NASCAR driver. I don't do pavement drafting. I don't really understand but anyway we were in there. So Cletus McFarlane goes out and I'm like, cletus, drop to the back. I'm like, it acts differently when you're too wide. When you're 3 wide, figure out what these drafts with how the polls work. It's just, it's okay because when he

[B]

qualifies, he's out there by himself, isn't he?

[A]

So he's never driven a truck in traffic. He qualifies for that day. And on lap seven, Cletus had the option. So he's three wide. It steps out. It stepped out for me. It stepped out for everybody. Within the first 10 laps you're going to be in a draft in some way. And luckily I was only too wide. And when it stepped out, full lock, snap back. And at 190 miles an hour.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

As good of a driver as you think you are, when it snaps out, that's one thing. It snaps back so fast that it's, it's really, really difficult not to clean everyone out. So when it snapped out, instead of trying to catch it, Cletus said, I don't want to take out the whole field. He might have been able to catch it 50 50. But instead of being I think he was running, you know, seventh, eighth, top 10, really. First ever race, lap seven. And that's what he was like, shoot, I'm not dropping back because then I have to pass all these people at some point. And when it stepped out, it was just something he wasn't used to. And that's when a Kyle Busch or someone's like, hey, he didn't have the experience. He shouldn't have been there. I don't agree with that. But if you would have followed my advice, we would have been in the back, we would have figured out all those things without people around us. We would have stepped in and we would have shook him back and possibly done better. Long story long, it stepped out instantaneously. He made the decision not to clean out half the field, turned it in, hit the wall on the inside. His day was done. So unfortunately or fortunately, depends on how

[B]

you look at it.

[A]

Not a lot of people crashed. So with six laps to go, my spotter comes on. He goes, you're doing great. I'm like, I'm in 27th. I know that my daughter came out strictly because I said at one point I was going to be up front. I was like, I'm leading a lap. I'm getting up there. We'll be in there. And I was like, six to go. I'm like, this is not where we want to be. So luckily there was a little bit of crash. Three cars went out. So now I'm 23rd or something, but I'm right behind my teammates and Carson Hosiver to go back one step. That talent that I was talking to that Cletus basically hired for the 2.4 out of 2.4 hours.

[B]

Oh, is that his partner?

[A]

That was his partner.

[B]

That cheating son.

[A]

I know. He got like one of the most talented drivers also.

[B]

What do you think the odds are he was driving the same caliber cars that we were?

[A]

100. Cletus doesn't cheat like that.

[B]

I'm not saying he cheated. I'm saying he might have given them all the once over and maybe.

[A]

Nope. I've been with his team. Honestly, the one good thing about all my friends. Friends, they're all. And they're all very honest. And Cletus, he will never give. He won't give himself the worst car. I'll give him that.

[B]

But which if you're hosting the event, I feel like that's fair.

[A]

Right? But he'll. He will never. It is. It. It lines up how it lines up. And he has never. He's won twice at his own event, big events. But he's never given himself the best car. And I believe if he had the best car that he would probably give it to somebody else. I honestly. Because he. At the end of the day, it can't be. It has to be legit. Yeah.

[B]

You know, he does seem like that kind of guy. I don't know him well at all. I met him for the first time while we were there, but I could see that for sure.

[A]

He gave us one of the worst cars when we teamed up together. And he's like, yeah, everyone says I'm cheating with you, so just go win anyway.

[B]

I was like, thanks, man.

[A]

We didn't win. But then he got hosted for sober. We're going to get to that. That race. So we come out, I go through the field. I'm right behind Stenhouse. Stenhouse gets right up in the mix. But he goes through some. Some. There's no gaps, there's no holes. And to go back one step. So Joseph her comes by me. So he has. He gets involved in the first, like, thing with Tony Storton. He messes up beside his car. So he's in the pits a little longer. So host of her comes by me and he's waving me by. I didn't follow him because we still had like 50 laps to go. And he crashes. And this team gets him fixed up. So the next time he comes by me, three wide on the outside, pinches in where four go. Loses it right off where Cletus come, and he's got his hands out the window, giving me the horns as he's sliding by at 190 miles an hour. Somehow saves it, doesn't collect anybody. Two laps later, smashed in the wall. He's gone. So I had four people that I was supposed to be shaking and baking with. I was expecting that maybe there would be 20 cars left on the last green, white checkered. There we sit, 28th, last green, white checkered. But behind, two teammates made a run up to 15. I come off the track, my daughter gives me the. Reads me the riot act. We actually. The first time she did it, we didn't have it on film. She did a pretty good job kind of reenacting it, but I just. I sat there and I took it because I'm like, you know what? I promise you, if you came down, I get in the hunt. And. And we never did. It was disappointing.

[B]

Jesus. Yeah. I mean, the fact that you're in there mixing it up. How many years ago was it that you were in a NASCAR, though, doing exactly the same thing.

[A]

Yeah. It was three or four years before that got to Daytona 500.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's bucket list.

[B]

Yeah. I also feel like you might have hopscotched a few rules to find yourself in that.

[A]

A lot of rules. Yeah.

[B]

But then you crushed.

[A]

I was doing really well, running ninth on the last green, white checkered Denny Hamlin, when everybody else was like, yeah, sure, pay for your ride. I'm like, look, I don't want to pay for a spot into the Daytona 500 because now everyone's going to be giving me so much crap. So I went down there, I run the late late models, the modifieds. We want a gator, which is. I know no one probably listening to this podcast knows what that is, but we won a dirt track, modified side by side.

[B]

Right. A Gatorade.

[A]

No, no, a gator is a trophy. Like, that's Florida, you know, so it's just a little stupid wooden gator. Doesn't. Doesn't matter. Long story long. I want a modified race, which is a dirt circle track. Everyone's car is pretty much the same. You can, for five grand, you can buy a pretty competitive car. And it's. That's where they say the real drivers come from. That's where NASCAR started. So we did. Did pretty well. Earned a lot of respect there. Everyone's like, oh, you're a YouTuber. I'm like, you guys forget I was a racer. I was motocross, supercross, rally car, like everything. I don't know a lot about pavement, but I know a lot about competition. So basically came into that Daytona and race the truck race. Actually teamed up with Joseph, her on that. We were both on Nice Motorsports, run by a Marine, ex Marine, which is really cool. So that's kind of how I got into that and everything. But at the end of the day, Daytona 500, it's something that before I can even remember anything, I remember going to Dale Gertz's house. He's got a little. It used to be dirt and then was pavement. We raced go karts all day long. We watched Daytona 500. It was a holiday for us. Like, it was as far as family, as far as something like. Like motorheads. That was what I always wanted to be a part of.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's like Christmas for people who are into that stuff. It's bigger than Christmas. It's like the center of their universe 1000%.

[A]

So my whole life I wanted. I actually started NASCAR. Only to get into that. I was like, talk to Jimmy Johnson. Said, how do I get in to running Daytona? He goes, dude, you have to do so much before you knew the Daytona 500. He goes, that you're probably going to get sidetracked to think you're actually going to be competitive or maybe will be and be a NASCAR driver. And I did. Full sidetracked. Thought I could be there two years in nascar. Spent like. Everyone's like, oh, you got paid. No, I paid every dime that I made until I realized that I had a wife and just had a kid my first year nascar. And I thought, you know what? I'm not good enough to be a cup champion, so I need to go back to motorcycles and off road where I can actually make a living for the family. Yeah. So I didn't quit NASCAR because it was boring or quit because of whatever. I quit. I stopped doing it because I wasn't good enough to be where I wanted to be without sacrificing everything else in my life to maybe or maybe not get there. And there's something you said about comfort. Yeah. Earned or whatever. I was in a place where I got to travel the world with my best friends, my wife, my kids, and I wasn't willing to give that up to see if I can figure out payment.

[B]

I 100 understand what you're saying. I have had so many ridiculous tangents down hobbies through my life. We know actually a tremendous amount of the same people and have been to a tremendous amount of the same places. Like, I was with Miles. Taught me how to bass show.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then he was like, he's a cartoon character. I've had him on the show. And he brought several rubbles. I'm like, dude, you don't need any. I. And he just kept cracking. I'm like, you go for it.

[A]

Go down.

[B]

And I'm like, miles. I met him.

[A]

God.

[B]

I had been skydiving, and I remembered somebody from skydive San Diego had been in Tahoe in the early years of, like, the Free Fly Clowns. I'm like, do you know Miles? She's like, I think so. And she throws me this old email address. So I hit him up out of the blue. And a week later, he hits me up. He's just like, screw it. I'll meet you in the parking lot at the bridge.

[A]

So I show. He pulls up in his truck. Was that your first base jump?

[B]

Yeah, it was like an hour after that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I didn't know what to expect. And I just hand him a check. I'm like, what's it cost? I'M like, I'll send you the check.

[A]

He's like, cool.

[B]

He just comes saddling out of his, you know, his blue truck. He's like, what's up, dude? Miles instantly into the cartoon character. I had seen him on videos. He's showing me videos of you jumping off. I think it was the high nose and Louderbrunn over the top of the gun range down below.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He's like, this is the kind of stuff you can do. And then wingsuit stuff. I'm like, hey, man, I've. We're in the parking lot of the Purine Bridge. That all looks amazing to me. But I also would like to live through this entire week. He gives me a once over of the gear and he's like, you ready? I'm like, sure. Throw the thing on. We walk out there, you know, he's holding on to the pilot shoot. He's like, there's the Evil Knievels jump. Point your chest at it and go. I'm like, okay. I had a couple thousand skydive, so I knew how to fly a canopy.

[A]

But you let him hold the pilot shoot though. Yeah, Quick, quick tangent. My dad got up there. Miles and Eric Rohner. Yeah, we're holding his pilot shoot. He goes, give me that expletive.

[B]

Your dad said that.

[A]

So my dad, he had. So he went in. He was marine.

[B]

Yep. In Vietnam. Yep.

[A]

So his first jump, he broke his ankle actually trying to. He's like, yeah, round shoots suck. He's like, so I've never. I've only done one jump. I had a bad landing, like just land in the water. He's like, great. So other than that jump, he had never been skydiving before. And Miles was like, hey. You know, actually, moment of levity, say, hey, you should probably just. Just jump and let us like just, you know, your first jump. He goes, man, will you want to die in an old person's home? And then. So he got up on top and he almost fell off. Just stand there.

[B]

He went off the rail, goes up on the rail.

[A]

And they said, okay, so just chest up. He said, chest up. You think I'm a bitch? He's like, I'm gainer in this thing. I said, what? I said, dad, at 100ft you have to throw the chute. If you throw it too much sooner. So he goes, well, I've belly flopped 100 foot bridge before. He goes, I got that. So he goes. I just imagine I was jumping off the Naval Academy bridge in Annapolis, Maryland, which is 96ft and he's like, if you were to tell me under rotate a gainer. He's like, I've already accidentally done that.

[B]

It's already in the wheelhouse.

[A]

So he jumped off. He yielded. Semper fi. Jumped off. Perfect gainer. Threw it and. Yeah. Anyway, Continue.

[B]

I. First I have to wrap my head around this story. Miles didn't ask me to get up on the rail, I think, until the end of the week. And that.

[A]

No, he didn't. They told me to tell him not to, but am I going to tell my dad not to do a gainer?

[B]

So for people listening, the prime bridge, totally legal to base jump 24 7. It's 486ft from the railing to where you're going to go flat. And you got the rest of your

[A]

life to think about it.

[B]

You do. And that's the way Miles describes it. He's like, whatever you do pull something. I'm like, okay, great. I guess that's a great emergency. He's like, never. Miles's theory is never go in with any of your handles still in their pocket. Which I actually agree with skydiving and BASE jumping. But, God, he. The first time he had me go up on the rail, that was almost scarier than jumping. Even though you're going to jump off the rail when you get on top of it, because you're afraid of falling off while you're getting on the rail to the bridge or getting ready to jump off.

[A]

Rational fear. There's nothing rational about it.

[B]

And you're standing up there, and then five seconds later, as soon as you get your together, you give them a three, two, one. See you. And you jump off the thing. But you're abs. Yeah. My God. Yeah. This rail is. It's an emotional event, actually.

[A]

See if. See if you can pull. Oh, there we go. See, there's a gainer.

[B]

That's my problem.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's not bad.

[A]

See if you can pull up my dad's gainer off there. Is this you?

[B]

No, no, this is. Michael's just surfing YouTube. No, but I have gone down so many different things that I thought I was going to do. Like, I was a skydiver and BASE jumper for a couple years. I'm like, I can't keep going down this path. I have to go back to something more sustainable. And then aviation was kind of the same thing, so. I understand exactly what you're saying. I wasn't willing to devote what it may have taken to maybe get me to a place where I could have done it at that level to give everything else up.

[A]

So my first year in NASCAR, I'm like 28 years old. Have, you know, seven U.S. or, sorry, six at that time, U.S. rally championships. The option for me was, okay, not say you've done it, like, still a great competition. We had Ken Block, you know, at the. Tanner Faust at the beginning of that stuff. And there's. There's a lot of. There's a lot of great drivers. But for the most part, in the US if you're a great driver in any type of anything, you're going NASCAR or maybe IndyCar, if you came from karting. So the option to kind of keep chasing the best to see how far I could go was move to Europe. Well, Subaru just pulled out of the WRC championship, which is World Rally. And I'm like, I'm not willing to give up the life I have here in the States with the. The friends and the family and everything that I've built to go see if I can make it over there. But I'm like, maybe nascar. I'm like, I don't. I've never really tried pavement. I don't really understand it. Is it harder?

[B]

I feel like it's somebody who knows nothing about either. I feel like the dirt would be harder, but I guess that's more. I would think of that from a traction perspective. But then I watch the way you guys drive. You guys are moving the car all around to take advantage of the factors.

[A]

So let's not say harder and easier. Let's look at an F1 driver or an IndyCar driver. And they're OCD, for lack of a better word. Yeah. How they dress is very proper. How they do everything in their life. Imagine that there is a perfect way around a racetrack. If it's paved, there's a perfect. Now, if the cloud cover comes over or anything, track temperature changes. But right now, circuit racing is for very intelligent human beings. It is for people that analyze everything, that understand everything, that have a great crew chief, that have a great support team around them. It's for people that are able to break. If you're going 200 miles an hour, you have to break at the exact same place every time. And Scott Speed was great because he didn't understand my mentality at all. We made a great team because he was great on one side and I was great on the complete opposite side. And we ended up going 1, 2 in the US Championship and beat the world champion from Europe, which no one thought American could do. That's totally different Tangent, but it was because of Scott Speed's F1 background and that he's like, I don't understand. You know that you overshot the corner when you broke any further than here. And when you were trying to make up time, you consistently broke later than that point. I was like, yeah, because I'm trying to catch you. He goes, but do you not understand that the fastest you can go around the corner, fastest you can make it into your apex is breaking here? I'm like, but you're going faster. He's like, I'm better. And that's something that I couldn't grasp. In dirt, you don't lose as much for being aggressive. Oh, interesting. You in pavement, there's a certain amount of grip level. And as soon as you break that grip level, even if you don't crash, you're losing time. If you're sliding, you're losing time. So there is a certain point of your apex that you have to hit and you get the most time by making that down the next year. If you miss the apex by an inch, you are losing time because that corner on the exit is, is sharper. You're not getting that drive.

[B]

And they can calculate. I mean like we're talking precise measurements and, and very known quantities.

[A]

So picture this rally is not nearly as close per se. There's a lot of different things that come involved in. You're going to have a lot of things because you get to do a, a recce or reconnaissance. Um, and that's multiple days before you go race those stages. So it could have snowed or rained or got drier, the line changed or whatever. And on a good stage, if I can make up 1/10 of a second on my teammate who has similar car set up, different but equal motor and that kind of stuff, a tenth of a second is a big gain. So in 10 miles, if we're a second off, that means that someone absolutely flogged the other person. Ever notice how ads always pop up at the worst moments when the killer's

[B]

identity is about to be revealed during

[A]

that perfect meditation flow?

[B]

On Amazon Music, we believe in keeping you in the moment.

[A]

That's why we've got millions of ad free podcast episodes.

[B]

So you can stay completely immersed in

[A]

every story, every reveal, every every breath. Download the Amazon music app and start listening to your favorite podcasts ad free included with prime exponentially magnify that when you talk about payment. So what Scott Speed saying is if you're more than a half of a tenth of a second.

[B]

A half of a tenth. Okay.

[A]

From your teammate, you are failing. You are not a race car driver. And that's what a lot of people, they're like, oh, I'm a great driver. I was five seconds off of so and so. You're not even in the same galaxy.

[B]

No, that guy's at the drive through at McDonald's.

[A]

But it's hard to explain. So at the end of the day, Scott speed is working on this level that's so far above anything that I've ever really worked on. And he's like, look, you can only drive your car so fast. You can't. You can carry a dirt bike. On a dirt bike, you're the wedge, you're the suspension. You are the. You know, you can't make up for the motor, but you can change so much stuff and the lines are changing. So it's how you find that traction. Then I could shift up a gear, if you have the guts to do it, and wheelie into a set of whoops and make up two seconds a lap. On a supercross track, it's not recommended. If you're making up two seconds on Eli Tomac. You're probably going to die here real soon. But, like. Or not die.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Yeah, lack of a better word.

[B]

But you might actually.

[A]

You might, but you're probably going to be.

[B]

Your statistical likelihood is on an Elon musk rocket ship headed for orbit.

[A]

100%. Yeah, but you can still do it. If you look at Carmichael, Stuart, the guys that they just start over jumping jumps, they're like, I'll get a half second by just regardless of what my body does, I'm just going to jump this to flat, and I'm going to be strong enough to take it. And that changed the sport and all of that stuff. But you look at cars and they said, look, you have to talk to your crew chief. So you drive. That's what Scott was like. You have to drive as fast as you can physically drive and then talk to the team about how they can make you drive faster. It had never crossed my mind. I had never done it, dude. My dad was, you know, I got whole shots at the beginning of the year in motocross and not halfway through the year. And he's like, why'd you start to go bad? And someone's like, well, his tires bald. He's like, well, it's not flat. You know, handlebars are bent. Just come from that mentality of, like, just ride it. Like, what? I don't understand what the problem is. So I based my life on just Figure it out, just make it work like fig win whatever it takes to win. And with a dirt bike you can carry that, you can wheel, you can take risks.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

I was not great at it like some beat up as all hell, but I was really good at figuring out when the chances were worth it.

[B]

I think your record of performance would indicate that you are pretty good at it. You've also just gone over the bars a few times.

[A]

And the record of hospital visits would also indicate that I'm not so 50.

[B]

50, yeah.

[A]

But at the end of the day I've made a career being able to take risks that other were not others were not willing to take. So with rally, my skillset is that if there's a hundred foot cliff on the right and there's a immovable tree on the left, I'm going to treat the cliff and the tree like a cone. And I'm going to say, can I go through this at the speed that I think? And the answer for me is either yes or no. Whereas you add a bigger cliff or a bigger tree or dust or conditions that impede your vision and in rally most people will back down. I realized a couple years ago that I'm getting old because Brandon Semenuk takes that exact same theory. He's a Red Bull Rampage champion since time he was 15. He has no fear and he's extremely intelligent and he is very, very good. Just natural talent. And the work that he puts in is amazing. And I realized my skill set doesn't help when someone else is also willing to do all those things. So if you take all the top sim racers, most of them would be better than I am physically at driving a vehicle, but they generally can't take that and perform the same way or better under pressure. I perform my best. When shit hits the fan, that's my happy place. And I think you guys and most of the military guys that I've met,

[B]

oh, I'm 100% the same way. There's a difference between a sim cliff and a sim tree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the screen goes black, you're like, oh, let's run it back. And then you're coming at it. And like, do I go with the skinny pedal on the right or do I go with the little bit bigger one that slows it down. Yeah, most people are going to mash on the brakes, man.

[A]

So my talent was never being the absolute best, the absolute sharpest, but was being able to make those decisions when it counted at the bottom of the ninth to say, is this worth it? And risk to reward changes every single day of your life. You get married, you have kids. But at the same time, I want my kids to see the amount of work that it takes to get to the top. I want them to see the risks that you're going to have to take. Doesn't always work. Yeah, they see me hurt a lot. Yeah, they see everyone around our house. We have a lot of Olympians that come through, a lot of world champions, a lot of people doing world records. And it's funny because my daughters, and this is another tangent, but one of my daughters, I was like, hey, man, you're really good. Like, you should work. You know, you, you can, you can be the, the, the, the national champion at this. And you know, at 7 years old, she's jumping over my wife. She's in a car can am jumping over a subaru doing an 80 foot gap.

[B]

Yeah, totally normal seven year old, normal

[A]

seven year old stuff. That was actually your seventh birthday.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah, like just barely, barely seven, totally normal. And I'm like, this could be a career. And she's like, yeah, I don't think I. And this is like, you know, literally 7 years old. She says, I don't know that I want to be the best at anything. And I took a huge step back and I was like, are you my daughter? Like, what? She said, I see so many people here and they don't seem that happy. They seem so focused. And so she's like, I just want to have fun with my friends. I had to take a step back. I'm like, okay, she's seven. But me at seven was, was different. And, but how I, how my dad treated me and how I had planned on raising my daughters, I was like, it was a very humbling experience to say, okay, this is a girl that just really wants to hang out with her friends. And whether that'll change down the road or not, Like, I don't want her to be 15 or 20 and be like, dad, why didn't you help me to be a race car driver or a dirt bike rider or her mom with a skateboarder, that kind of stuff. And yeah, it's a, it's. Being a father is very interesting, but it's opened up that eye to say, I always want, like, fun for me was winning. Like Lindsay, my wife, winning is awesome.

[B]

Losing sucks. It sucks.

[A]

Lindsay's like, you say you like rally, but you're up. So, you know, you put the kids to sleep and Lindsay to bend then, or, you know, his wife goes to sleep and you stay up to watch, to do your notes and you might be up all night going over, you know, I'm trying to pull a half of a tenth of a second. Yeah. Every other mile. And I, I'm happy. I'll, I'll, you know, homework's free. Work it. Work is free. Yeah. And you know, you get up with kids the next morning, she's like, you don't seem happy. You don't seem like, like. But I want to win.

[B]

The path to happiness isn't always comprised of smiles every day. No, that's what people miss, man. They miss the, the journey through the valley of like, here I am at success and here I am at success. There's a whole story of eating every day along the way to get you to those places and people miss out on that.

[A]

But I, and it's really weird, but I enjoy when I feel like I'm about to die. If it's for something that I believe is going to help, even maybe help me, I'm all in. And if, even if I know that I'm not better than someone, if I can push them to, into potentially feeling the pain that I'm feeling, it makes me so happy. Like it's, it's a sadistic kind of. So that's why freestyle was so tough.

[B]

We're lucky we didn't meet earlier in life because one of us would be dead for sure. Our mentality is like. I took my entire family to Lauterbrunnen for a trip with Miles because I wanted him to see what I was doing and I wanted him flying over them in wingsuits, jumping off a cliffs and landing next to him and high fiving. And none of them want to do that, by the way, but they needed to see it and I wanted to. Well then to experience that and the same thing. It's. There's nothing that comes without risk, at least for me that I've really cared that much about the easy stuff is just that.

[A]

And I might take a little bit of a left turn from that. But I was kind of the runt of the family. All right. So I have. My uncle was quarterback for Denver Broncos, All American lacrosse wrestling, went to the national championships without having a single point scored against him. My grandfather was Golden Globe boxer. My cousin, we call him Special Greg, walks on the University of Maryland team after being an army brat his whole life, all over the world and never really playing football. And second year has a full scholarship to University of Maryland Division 1. I got beat up a lot. I was definitely not the strongest. Our family wasn't the smartest in general, but the. What we did was, you know, sports. That was what everyone was. Was more focused on. So the only way to outshine everyone was to jump off the higher bridge or do more flips. And I realized I was extremely durable through a family lineage of idiots for a very long time.

[B]

Interesting word you use there. Durable. Pull up your X ray here in a minute, and we can talk about your durability.

[A]

The fact that I'm still alive, I

[B]

think, has a lot of people who wear white coats scratching their head from time to time. Time durability, yeah. No, I get it, man. It's. I have never been the best at anything either. I'm probably lucky to cruise at 70 to 80%, but I can outwork people. That's the only superpower that I have.

[A]

And that is why action sports, it came now. Right place, right time, right mentality. I mean, even through my uncle that, you know, as my dad always says, you know, and family always thinks the family's better, but maybe the best athlete that ever came out of Annapolis, Maryland, and the fact that he still, until the day he died, was working construction the summers and teaching at a community college. You know, health, fitness, lacrosse, and football. The chance of you making a living at a hobby is very slim. So any day that you have a chance to do what you love to do, ride that train till the wheels fall off.

[B]

God, I could not agree more. I don't even ask my kids what they want to do, like, with their life. Like, what are you passionate about? What interests you? Let's just go water the lawn, you know, and I mean, and put fertilizer on that grass to see if it can grow. That's the. I mean, that's the way I took with my life. I don't know if it's a scalable philosophy, but it worked out okay.

[A]

And there's the. The second point was, you know, Marcus Luttrell, he told me we did. I had the. The honor of doing a race across America or the one lap America where we were stuck in a car. Never met Marcus before in my life. I called him out of the blue through the black rifle. Guys. I was like, hey, Subaru wants me to do this event. I gotta be stuck in a car with someone for a week. I read this book called Lone Survivor. I'm like, is there any way you could reach out to Marcus? And everyone laughed like, dude, Marcus is. You're not gonna want to be stuck with a car with him for a week. And he won't do it. I don't know if you know Marcus.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Marcus and I hit it. All right? He shook my hand. We're about to get in the car for a week of driving, like, literally 18 hours a day in a car. And he goes, hey, just want you to know I'm not gonna bail you out of jail. I was like, all right. He goes, because I'm gonna be in there with you if we get there. I was like, my man, we didn't go to jail. For the record. That is good. But what he said was, if you're in hell with your friends, it's not hell. It's where you want to be. And I think I was very, very fortunate to come up with. Most of my family was military. My dad was military. And when you got hurt, it wasn't like, oh, my gosh, you were hurt. It's like, hey, suck it up. Rub some dirt on it. And, you know, like, I. So I. When I was 11 years old, didn't even crash. I was doing a trick, which my parents weren't that excited about. But Loretta Linds, which is the national championship, the qualifier, did a heel clicker, landed sideways, and my foot slipped off the foot peg, and I broke my tibia. Big dent in the femur, tore my ACL, my PCL, my LCL, my MCL at 11. Bucket handle meniscus, which means the nips. Meniscus flopped over, and the kneecap was on the side of my knee. And the knee brace that was supposed to be holding it broke and stuck in between the tibia and the femur. Didn't even crash. Pulled off, and I was balling. I was. I was 11. I was crying. And my dad comes over. He's like, you broken or. Or you. You. Toward ligaments or break? I said, both. He kind of laughed. It was. I was right, actually, by the way. And I was just. I was balling. He said, man, I've seen someone get shot that cried less than you. Suck it up. And the whole lesson of that was, you know, he's like, you're gonna have pain and stuff. He goes, you. You gotta be tougher. My mom was also mad at him for, you know, like, so mean. But they were always supportive. Everything I want to do. And dad never said, go faster. Never got mad at me for doing everything. But he was like, one, have respect, and two, don't be a. And I think that mentality really helped me through. Through action sports and helped me in life in general.

[B]

Do you think you can Teach that risk versus reward matrix to get to somebody. Like, using the cliff and tree analogy, like, we're going to treat these as cones, and when everybody else is going to back off, if I feel like I have it, I'm going to smash the pedal.

[A]

I think it was a lot of nurture in there and just being brought up. My dad was one of nine. You know, he had five brothers. They were all very tough. We all. They all worked construction. Everyone was together all the time. My grandma fixed lunch for all of us every day that we were home. Um, it was family. It was a lot of. Of that, a lot of support, but a lot of that. Be tough, you know, just, yeah, be a man award, be tough, be that kind of stuff. So I don't know that that environment will exist for my kids, which is good and bad to a lot of things, but it has to come with. With it from within. And my dad was pretty good with me all the time. He said, look, there is no amount of money that is worth taking the risk that you take in dirt bikes. And he was the only one that had slowed down on the pitboard when he thought it was getting too crazy, really. Like, all the other parents were like, come on, get him. He was like, just like, I don't want to see you get hurt, but if this is what you really want to do, then go for it. So to answer your question on that part, I think it's a little bit of your surroundings and a lot of what's within you. And I. I learned that when I had two kids, and they're so completely opposite. And even my oldest, when hits the fan, she almost gets a smile. And she does exactly what I do, where she starts talking a million words a second, and she's like, that's her happy place. And my other girl, she likes to learn. She actually listens. She's gonna. She gets better at most things than, you know, than the one that just wants to do it because she's listening, she's paying attention. She doesn't want to get hurt. She doesn't want to. And when. When hits the fan, it's just over for her in a split second, and she just. She blacks out. So it's like, maybe. And my wife, for example, she gets really angry when she gets nervous. So when I do something that doesn't sound fun, makes her scared, she. She's mad at me. She's not actually mad at me.

[B]

I think you know the emotional response to what's going. Yeah.

[A]

And that helped her get, you know, 3x games gold medals. Because when she gets angry, she gets stronger. Not fun to be around when. When she's scared, but. Or, sorry, when she gets scared, she gets stronger. So what I've learned is that everyone naturally has a little different way of reacting to fear. And I think most of my military friends, at least the ones that have been through hell, and they keep going back. Most of the successful people in a contact sport, when hits the fan, when everything's wrong. When you're in the air on a dirt bike and you're going, for example, I was hitting this jump, and my foot peg hit the takeoff, and I was going up over the bars as fast as the bike would go. 70 miles an hour, clearing two barbed wire fences, coming up short on the landing. And I'm going over the bars. I remember being fully panicked, and I remember almost everything stopped. And I probably didn't smile, but in my head, I was smiling. I was like, huh, this is, like, this is pretty interesting. And I had all this time to think about it. I'm like, all right, I'm 40ft off the ground. I'm going 70 miles an hour, four stories up, highway speeds plus. And I'm a respond. I'm like, all right, if I stay on the bike, the front end will take a little bit of the hit. And then the bike, it like, it's probably going to kill me. I'm like, all right. And I looked around, like, literally in my head, all this is happening all at once. And I'm like, all right, there's. It's just grass. There's nothing that I can land on that's better. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna take a big jump off of here. Cause my dad always said on a bridge, he goes, look, you wanna jump off this, so you know how you're taking off? And I remember I stepped on the handlebar, and I jumped as hard as I could with confidence to be in the spot that I wanted to be so I could potentially best take this impact from four stories up at 70 miles an hour onto this grass. And as I was flying through the air like a spider monkey, I thought to myself, I'm like, this is really cool. I'm like, I know it's really gonna hurt right there, but how many people get to fly like this? And I land, I destroyed my knee. I knocked myself silly. It was. It was pretty bad. But the bike didn't land on me.

[B]

Yeah, it probably would have killed you.

[A]

Actually pretty much ruined my career. Knee was toast. Everything Was, was say me that I had heard earlier. So rolled out of it okay. Ish. Considering, you know, only a blown out knee, not really anything else to speak of from such a big jump. Sorry, I keep hitting this, but.

[B]

No, you're good.

[A]

But I remember sitting there and I was in quite a bit of pain and I'm thinking, my dad's gonna kill me. Because it was a week before the supercross season started. And I was like, that was, that was really cool. And I feel like there's probably something wrong with that whole, whole thought process, but it's just interesting that someone like yourself, someone like most of the friends that I have now, would be in that situation. And the difference between someone that makes it in action sports and someone that doesn't. And I, I won't speak for military because I've never been there and don't understand it, but I'd imagine it's lesser. But in a similar way is when hits the fan, not many people are willing to make a decision, any decision. If the best decision is two broken legs, you freeze, you're like, oh, dear God.

[B]

Did you find this?

[A]

Oh, that's it. Oh, it's probably not nearly as big as I remembered in my head, but yeah, go ahead. How did you find that?

[B]

Yeah, you are pegged right there too.

[A]

I was like. And right there I'm giggling. I'm like, all right, step off. Yeah, that was way cooler in my head. Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, you're welcome.

[B]

Most people would just ride that out though. They're not, they're not even able to. Well, first off, people don't understand how many years it would take to get comfortable even attempting that jump in the first place.

[A]

I was comfortable until I took off. But the, the gist of this, even though in my head that jump was way bigger, but that's cool. So thank you for finding that. It was still as fast as the bike, for clarity.

[B]

That's a huge jump.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Good call getting off the bike though. That thing would have 100% knowing what

[A]

I know now, as soon as it took off, I would have tucked for a front flip. Might have made it around better, but, but at the end of the day, and look, you see me there, I'm like, yeah, hey, my knees completely gone.

[B]

That's just called shock.

[A]

Okay. Shock was great. I was like, so then I fall down, I was like, oh, yeah. Now I'm actually really hurt. But hey, good, good calling out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the interesting point about this is

[B]

that you're talking about being Comfortable on the edges. And I would say most of the people that I worked with were like that. The selection process, processes, whatever it would be, they kind of, they, in my opinion, they select for people that look at obstacles as motivation, not adversity. Like if they encounter something, they'll figure out a way to solve the problem. And then over time, they start layering more complexity and more. What would be the best word for it? Definitely more complexity, but I would say more consequential. And so it just becomes this pressure cooker. And you can either perform in that environment or you cannot. But that's how those. The most. The people that I worked with, you get them to that place where things are not going as planned and it's definitely not as awesome as you thought it was going to be. And they have a shitting grin on their face and they are just figuring out in real time. Those are some of the people I look, I'm like, I don't know how you do that, because that is unbelievable.

[A]

But, yeah, well, but you're one of them. And that's.

[B]

But you get used to it. You get used to that. I don't know what to call it. The fringe, the leading edge of the knife where most people don't even want a tightrope out there. And then you get so comfortable being out there that you're looking for ways to get out there on your own without external circumstances forcing you there.

[A]

And that's actually a whole nother scary subject to get into. And that it is very interesting to see a lot of the people that were around. And I do enjoy those moments. The problem is those moments don't come without huge risk and huge consequences and risk to reward, obviously. Always changing. But how do we find that excitement in life, that thrill, without risking everything we have?

[B]

How do you. How does it work for you when you are injured and doing stuff like this or anything action related, it's off the table for days, weeks, months. Do you struggle with that mentally because you were kind of locked in a prison of your own body that's not functioning very well.

[A]

So people always say, why do you keep putting yourself through this stuff? And I said, because every moment that I'm not doing it is worse than a moment that I'm injured. Like, I don't mind the pain as much as I mind the inability to do. And it's not always this. It changes. Like, for example, I really enjoy other aspects of life. I enjoy the creative side of life. I enjoy writing, I enjoy producing, I enjoy editing. And that's what we started with the. You know, we have channel 199. It's a YouTube channel. And at the end of the day. And it's one thing that I can do with. With my daughter, the one that is like, I don't really want to be great at anything because it seems like you guys have. You guys never seem that happy. You always seem pretty hurt. And like, all the. All the Olympians and the world champions over here, like, the other day, there's not really a lot of money and a lot of this stuff that.

[B]

True story, too.

[A]

I'm like, you're smarter than all of us. So. But she really loves. You know, she wrote a movie and she's 11 years old, full movie. She just. This year, she went. And I don't. I'm wondering if she's my daughter, actually, because, I mean, not really, but, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she went this year, and she's like, hey, the principal came to us and said, your daughter is trying to skip a grade. I'm assuming you. You know that. I was like, huh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's been talking to us about that. Yeah, We.

[B]

We were fully briefed by.

[A]

Fully briefed. So she's. She's counselor and she's. She's got straight A's. Everything is, you know, 98% or above on all of this stuff. She's done all the extracurricular. She's actually finished the sixth grade now, and she's starting her seventh grade. We said if she could finish both grades, she could go ahead and, you know, get into eighth grade. Um, she's also convinced the whole class that our class play needs to change to this, and she's changing the script of the play. And for whatever reason, they all seem to be going with it. I'm like, okay, great. So proud of her. Different. But I'm like, all right. Not where I was there. I was just trying to get through school. I mean, I had to keep honor roll, so I. My mom would allow me to keep racing and doing stuff, which was fine.

[B]

I was just eating paste. Perfect.

[A]

Yeah. That's what I wanted to be doing. And riding my dirt bike.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the long story long of that is now a lot of the focuses that I have when I'm hurt or when I'm, you know, at a knee replacement two years ago. I had replacement last year. Probably need a shoulder. Another knee here the next. My daughters both said, hey, if you did a replacement this year, and we can't go on a family vacation over Christmas, And New Year's, like, we're going without you. So I said, okay, we'll take a year off of getting these, these body parts changed.

[B]

But children are rough. I know they'll give it to you. I have three.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yours look like they're getting ready to enter their teen years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I have 22. 20. So two boys and a 17 year old daughter. And I often question my life, my life choices, my, my place in the world. My.

[A]

They're very honest.

[B]

They're it. Yes. They haven't developed or maybe it's just with us as the parents, the filter is removed for a little bit and they just get the knife and they go straight down to the bone and sometimes through it.

[A]

I keep trying to teach my kids that you. Not that you have to follow rules, but you have to know every rule before you break any. I'm like, look like, well, you don't stop it on bicycles. Like you go straight through red lights or stop signs, hypothetically. And I'm like, yes, but I understand the traffic pattern. I know where the car is coming from. I'm like, you better stop at each one until you understand, like, which way is the traffic coming if these lights are on? Yeah, doesn't matter. But just like, I mean, that matters. Obviously you try to teach them to do what you wish you would have done, but we know from the time we were kids we've always pushed those limits. And it's hard now being a place where I am, where, you know, we can go to pretty much any amusement ride or any, anything. And most of the people that are gonna be working that stuff knows who I am. So from the time our kids were able to walk, there have been no rules as far as what height or age limits have been to do anything. Um, you know, my nine year old was in a Corvette Z06 with blocks on the pedals going zero to to 60 just to see what her, her split time would be.

[B]

It would be unreasonable for her not to.

[A]

Right. It's just that just seems normal. So at the end of the day right now, my goal when I'm not able to do this stuff, the stuff that like is maybe two to three times a year, I find myself on the edge. Yeah. I try to not make it more than that because if you're doing that every day, you're. I want to be around for my kids. I want to be walking and happy and I don't want to get any replacements all the time and, and break those and whatever's going on. But what I Do enjoy is. I enjoy writing, I enjoy movies, I enjoy making content. And as much as I'd hate to see my kids as YouTubers or that kind of stuff, anything that revolves around other people's liking them to be successful, I do want them to be able to edit and be able to make content and be able to.

[B]

Tools of the day, man.

[A]

And just. Just to understand, even this is. Sorry to go back a step, but. So my wife, she takes criticism a lot more harshly than I do. And someone kept writing her repetitively, just mean stuff to her Instagram. And finally she took time. She took two days, wrote this really well thought out, like, letter. Nice. But back to this person. And the person's like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you actually replied to me. I've been a big fan for. And it kind of made me laugh because that's what I was telling him. Like, look, there's always going to be people that are either jealous or they're whatever. I always take the people around me as my frame of reference. Yeah. If my dad calls me an idiot, I'm going to take a huge step back. He's pretty good about not saying it. I'm like, all right, what am I doing? What did I say? My mom, my wife, even my kids,

[B]

to an extent, people you know and trust. I know exactly where you're going with this. Yeah.

[A]

But at the end of the day, they've kind of understood. And especially my older daughter, Addie, she understands that you have to know how to be liked to make that stuff work. But at the same time, you can't hold it. You got to just do what you think is the best that you can do. Each day you get up and try to be the best human that you can, doing the best that you can for the people and with the people that you love to be around. And that's what I've started with this YouTube thing. And there's. There's a lot of criticism. There's a lot of things that, you know, they're not wrong. A lot of times someone sponsor comes in and you're doing a press thing and they're like, oh, that's so fake. And for the most part, I've been fortunate enough to work with really great sponsors and great brands, and it makes you think, you're like, maybe I shouldn't do an ad for this. Even though it's.

[B]

It's also the ticket to entry, though, for somebody professionally working in that world. And I inherently think the people who see that stuff and Actually complain about it. Would have no problem stepping into your shoes, doing their ad themself. It's a matter of being able because, I mean, you have millions of followers, right? Some of those people are assholes. And most of them have not accomplished what you have in life. But yet they have criticism and critiques for you. Because my kids grew up, they don't remember a world without the Internet. I graduated high school in 96. I distinctly remember the first computer class I was at in high school and that I was in it for about a week before people started looking at titties. Yeah, the screen. I'm like, oh, this is apparently what they need.

[A]

Suit Larry, let's go.

[B]

I was like, oh my God, I do remember that game. Michael Buy yourself leisure Suit Larry for Christmas. That's your Christmas present.

[A]

He's writing it down.

[B]

But now that, you know, all of my kids have experienced the. What would be the best way to describe it? The horrendous nature of being accessible to people in the world that they would never actually meet in real life. Because I was explaining to them.

[A]

But who would never say that in real life.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

At least not two faced.

[B]

And that's what I was explaining to them. You know, the cyberbullying thing is pretty real. And, you know, I was talking to Mike. They're asking, well, how'd you deal with this when you grew up? I started laughing like, well, I had the chance to say something to somebody at school which immediately would probably terminate in physical consequences. I could try to find their phone number in the yellow pages and call them to see if their parents would let them on the phone. Or I could write them a letter. So it was a different time. And now they live in a world where it's just ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And you have to have these conversations with them. You know, not everybody's feedback is valid. And I actually don't know. Rogan says this a lot and I, and I appreciate his headspace on this. He doesn't know anybody in his life. And I bet this is true of you because it's true for me too. That is super happy and successful. That is tearing people down on the Internet. No, never, never. Anything but support and trying to help them along. It's the people who are on the other side of that coin that they probably are feeling or living with an immense amount of. I'll just call it pain broadly. And they have a tool now where they can kind of like put fishing hooks out at other people

[A]

and also to go a Little bit off of that. So when I finished racing Supercross back in 2005, 2006, I was so burnt out, I didn't watch the supercross race for a while. I came back watching when, honestly, when I had kids and my friends that had kids, they would barbecue, the parents would generally barbecue and the kids would ride mini bikes. And what's great, it's electric. I always laughed at electric, but I'm like, shoot, even in a real small confined area at night, the kids can be on the electric bikes and electric four wheelers and, and it's not loud and as long as there's no dust, it's no problem. And I realized that we started talking and they were talking crap on this guy or this, and I was kind of laughing and then you start jumping in your Monday morning quarterback off. They'd only be in better shape if they. I know nothing about these people. And I realized how easy it was to not be in their shoes and not understand what they're going through. You'll never, never know. Yeah. So I'll always have respect for anyone, no matter what. You know, I don't know if you follow the motocross at all, but if you look at Deegan, for example, I was. Battled his dad in freestyle and all this stuff and he's a cocky shit, for lack of a better word. But he's made everyone want to watch the sport more. And he talks so much crap and he backs it up. I'm like, it's not always going to happen. It's really, really difficult to be able to back up, especially when everyone on the starting line wants to take you down.

[B]

Look at Conor McGregor. Same thing. Massive shit. Hogger MMA went through the roof in many countries. And you get to the place though, where you're not king of the hill anymore.

[A]

It's tough and it's going to be, it's, it's hard. But he's, he's built up the entire sport. And Brian Deegan, to Hayden's father, Brian, who was, he built the sport of freestyle. I didn't know. I was just this kid that wanted to ride dirt bikes and he was kind of like good versus evil and all. Everything in it, it helped up kind of everything to that. But I take a step back now and I'm like, we're sports figures. Aren't real people? Like, we, we are real people. We've like, we take it personally.

[B]

But.

[A]

But I had the privilege, I would say, of walking into one of my first supercrosses, World championship, first ever World championship. I did Rose bowl and I was walking in through the gates and I was walking behind a group of college age students and I, you know, I'm younger than them, 16 years old, just got my pro license and I was walking in and the people in front of me like, oh, what do you think about Pastrada? And I was like, oh, cool, this is me. And guy's like, oh, dude, that freestyle kid. Oh, what a punk. Dude, he's going to kill someone. I hope, I hope he crashed and kills himself before. And they're literally saying they hope I die. And I was like, like really taken back. And I walked by and I walked by, I kind of nodded. And the same guy that was like, man, that, that punk, he's never going to make it in the sport and all this stuff, he's like, oh, Pastrana, can you sign my hat?

[B]

Did you draw a massive dong on it?

[A]

I should have. I was. And it took me a while to comprehend what had just happened. But by the end of the year, I kind of understood that a little bit, that they have people they like, people they don't like. They're either going to assume that you're the best in the world or you're the worst in the world. Everyone kind of runs this middle ground. There's no person that's that great. There's no person that's that bad. Even if they do really bad things, they're still like, you look at the mob or whatever. I mean, just from, you know, the, the books and stuff you read on in the movies, they still were good people to certain people, you know, they do bad things, but there's really no, I mean, and you might have a completely different picture of this being military and you've seen really bad people. But in general, if someone's a celebrity, you might be brainwashed one way or the other. You might have a viewpoint that's completely opposite of another person. Doesn't really make it right or wrong. But in my experience, if you take a step back, these people are probably just trying their best. So I have a general respect for everyone that's made it and know how much work it takes to get to the top. And also know that if someone really hates me, it's not because they hate me. They hate the image of me that they've been that. That they understand, or the idea of

[B]

what they think you are 100. Whether it's based on reality or not, but it does.

[A]

It's not usually based on reality, which is fine because my then interpretation of When I'm like, you know, f that guy Hopi, I'm gonna laugh myself like I'm one of those money morning quarterbacks.

[B]

We all are to it to some degree for sure. How do we win the lay mullets this year? Because I heard we're running it back, but I think JT is going to be your partner. But me and Bucky are going to run it back again. All right, so I've already learned a ton. I wish he would have told me many of the things he told me before I went out there.

[A]

So what was really good? So. And I mean this with all due respect and let me tear it down.

[B]

First off, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Bucky was like, just get me a car that's not damaged. I'm like, sure.

[A]

So I. This year I was going on we both. There's two Black Rifle entries.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Into Lamont. They sponsored the event. They got two entrants. So Cletus McFarlane who just awesome dude, redneck wheelman, YouTuber. I always laughed at YouTubers until like, he's got helicopter money, living his dream with his family, doing great stuff. I'm like, you know what? This guy is bringing fun back to racing. This is awesome. So with Black Rifle, we've got two cars, you and Bucky. And I was really looking to see who I could find. And I'm talking F1 drivers and I'm talking to everyone that because I know that Cletus is coming in. Oh, he's coming in with Carson Oser for sure. So Cletus is great. He'll keep the car together and Carson's almost unbeatable. You got. Greg Biffle is going to be in there. Tony Stewart jumps in sometimes. I'm like, all right, so who can I get that's going to be a ringer that no one's going to know about? So I find John Buffett, winningest US Rally driver of all time. He was in the military. So he's 86 years old now. Back in 2006 was the last time he raced. And he was just going to go into this race because his son in law was winning second championship in the Canadian Rally Championship and he needed a spacer. Well, son in law crashed out the first stage. So John buffum at like 7 years old goes out there and wins the event.

[B]

Just off the bench.

[A]

Off the bench. Hadn't driven in seven years. These guys, holy cow. I mean, so yeah, this guy is. He burns the candles from both ends and the center. He's like I said, mid-80s and he is the sharpest.

[B]

I'm here for it.

[A]

Military guy got like 2 weeks leave to go do the Monaco WRC when he was over there back in, you know, 50s or 60s or whatever it was. So I've got this ringer that no one's going to know that. I'm like, oh, I'm going to let him run last. I'm like, I'll get him to the front, jump, buff him. I don't care how it is. He's not letting a car go by him. He's a phenomenal street course guy. So three days before his wife tells him, yeah, I really am not comfortable with you going down there. And John's like, yeah, I kind of got to keep her happy. So know we'll talk maybe next year. So I'm like, Lindsay, my wife now, Lindsay is one of the best. If it doesn't have to do with shifting, she's great. She beat Matt Crafton, who was a three time NASCAR truck champion at a K1 race.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Like which Go kart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Electric.

[B]

Still racing.

[A]

My wife, you know, at the time was like 115 pounds. So she had a little bit of advantage, but she can her lines, she's a good driver. I'm like, Lindsay, there's gonna be a lot of carnage, a lot of chaos. I'm like, just keep it on the lead lap if you can keep it on the lap. And by some miracle, she caused two crashes with the lead cars. They're gonna buy stayed on the left.

[B]

That's why you were so fired up when we did the swap out.

[A]

You're like, you're on the lead lap. So I thought, no way in hell my wife's staying on lead lap. But you were right in front of her. So that's where I was like, no

[B]

offense, I know I was squarely in the back not knowing what the hell I was doing, just like.

[A]

But you can thank her for taking out the leader twice.

[B]

I appreciate it.

[A]

Yeah. So anyway, everyone's kept on the lap. So now your car's good? My car's good other than the back of it because she had kind of run into a few people there. But the front's good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yeah, we had a really good shot, so. But we were pretty close to the back of the pack. So Bucky and I come through the pack.

[B]

You guys were starting to chomp away at it though. It was interesting. I didn't realize. And this is the stuff that Bucky told me later. I didn't realize there's such an opportunity to rejoin the pack anytime that they do a caution. Because that's one of the things I noticed you guys were doing. Anytime there's a caution, it's like boom, right on the bumper. The person. And then you're taking a run at them and going at people as they restart it. It's like, Buck, you could have told me that before.

[A]

No, because he wanted the car in good condition. Oh.

[B]

I wasn't going to be able to do it, but it's like you did perfect.

[A]

No. Because the only two right front tires that were still perfect were yours. No offense. Yeah. I mean, in the nicest way possible.

[B]

And Lindsay, is that usually the first

[A]

one to go or so people that are driving over driving the car? Yeah. Because it's. It's. It's a horseshoe or so. It's. Yeah, it's a kidney bean.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So the main corners are left.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So you and Lindsay were driving right on inside. Not squealing the wheels too much. We had the two best cars, but Bucky and I are coming through the pack. Bucky's right in front of me. He rolls it. Double kickflip.

[B]

It was impressive.

[A]

He was really impressive. I was giggling a little bit. Yeah. I don't even know how he did it.

[B]

He got side checked into the tires, you know, just after the chicanes. Yeah. You can see it. The guy just lifts up the. The rear. Right rear section of his car and just shoves him into the tires, which didn't move. And just.

[A]

So I get up to third place, Got this great car, and I'm like, oh, this is awesome. And then I looked in first place is at the time, Greg Biffle. In second place is Carson Hosiver. And I'm like, ah, well, this is far as we're moving. So it was good race, though. But hey. So this year. So I've got Matt best is going as my teammate. Sweet. So I'm gonna put Matt first.

[B]

I'm sure Bucky will do the same with me as well. We'll probably just run it back the same way.

[A]

But you couldn't have done better. Now if you could move up a couple spots.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because the fewer people that. So Bucky is an amazing road car driver. Most people don't know. I mean, Bucky got third at. So he won X games on skate and took a bronze in rally car

[B]

in the same year.

[A]

Beat me, beat Ken Block, beat Tanner Faust, beat. I mean, so. And he was focusing on. On skate and winning the gold. There which was his main day job. So Bucky is a very, very good driver. Very good on pavement, especially not as good on the. The dirt. Don't mean no disrespect. Well, maybe I'm really bad on pavement, but either way. So Bucky and I were kind of working together on that one. I think we'll do that again this year. So if you do the same thing, but maybe like five spots up, I don't know that we're going to get by Joseph. Her, though.

[B]

It could be my job to just run into him as hard as possible. Let the other team win

[A]

now. Yeah. Or Vice, but maybe we just tag team like that.

[B]

And now by that, I mean, I'm not gonna catch him. I'll wait until he catches me, and then we'll have an accident.

[A]

Yeah, well, if we share the. Like, last year it was two cars. I don't know what it is this

[B]

year, but I think it's two cars, too. The calm stuff you guys had. Were you able to talk to her in real time as she was going around?

[A]

So it's kind of cheating, but there's no real. It's kind of a gray area.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So, yeah, in theory.

[B]

Okay, maybe.

[A]

No, I mean, I don't think we should all be.

[B]

So you guys were not by any stretch the only people utilizing.

[A]

Yes, I was. I was on comms with two other cars.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, that would have. Again when we swapped out. And Bucky was like, oh, yeah, yeah, next time do this. I'm like, dude, tell me that before

[A]

I go out there.

[B]

I will follow instructions.

[A]

So we had some of the guys from Delta had come out, and there

[B]

was the army unit or the airlines.

[A]

The unit. Okay, so, sorry, I just got.

[B]

You gotta make sure

[A]

I flew in on Delta this morning. Oh, my gosh. All right, thank you. Step back there. Yes. So the. The. Well, the. The unit.

[B]

Yeah, the CAG boys, as they're called now.

[A]

So they came out and mo. All athletic, obviously. But there was one guy that I was very surprised, had never done a backflip, even on a trampoline or dive board. Did not look like your typical. Typical Delta guy. And he's like, all right, what do I have to do? I'm going to backflip a dirt bike. Bike. I was like, you never backflipped anything? He's like, no. Like, if you're in dirt bike. He's like, I mean, I've ridden. Like, when's the last time you wrote? He's like, I was like, 12. I was like, all Right. I'm like, look, I'm not gonna be that guy. But I don't think this is really what. So he's like, how do I do a backflip on trampoline? So the first time, like, he. He wasn't even good at bouncing the trampoline, and he committed straight. He lands straight on his head. But he. Full commitment. I'm like, all right, you can respect that. Your shoulder. You fully like, yeah. I was like, good enough. I'm not going to make you up trampoline again because this might get hurt before. Second try. Perfect. To the wheels. Every single member of the unit landed a backflip within their first two tries. Yeah.

[B]

We wouldn't follow instructions.

[A]

They blocked out everything that didn't matter. All the fear, all that they said, okay, are you telling me something that is accurate?

[B]

Mm.

[A]

If I believe that, I'm gonna do it exactly as you say, exactly at the time that you say. I've never experienced that before. I've never experienced a group of maybe one person in it. I've never experienced an entire group that could simply block out any kind of fear. There's usually you have your people that are simple in the nicest way possible, most of my friends and myself included, that we can just block out the fear. And you're like, okay, I'll just do this. But you have a baseline of how this works. So to come into something you don't understand and be able to process and think through it takes a level of intelligence that's off the charts and a level of fear management that I've never. And you could say that I'm going too far into this. But we've had probably, I would say no less than 8,000 people, maybe over 10,000 people that have come to the house and learned backflips. I can count on fingers and toes how many people have landed a backflip into the foam pit their first try. Whether riders or whether anything. There was half of the Delta unit that did that.

[B]

So you got to think about this to get to that level. So I was on the Navy version of that unit, and I'm very familiar with those guys and their pipeline and their capabilities. They're fantastic. Some of my favorite people. To get to that level, your life becomes we. They have so many things that they're expected to do, and you'll usually do it in weeks. Like a chunk of one week for this, and then you're like, we gotta maintain our currency in this. And so two weeks. And so what they do is you fly in the best in the world at fill in the blank and they show you how they do what they do. And you get to this place where you have the realization that the best way to actually learn and to show respect to a coach is, is to do exactly what they tell you to do and nothing more. That's how people can accelerate their learning. I started doing Jiu Jitsu years ago

[A]

and step back, yeah, every single person like Jiu Jitsu. You believe it. Like, I have no idea about all everyone does Jiu Jitsu that everyone I look up to now in dove doesn't that you open.

[B]

I was going to say you, but you can. I progressed at a, at a rate that was different than most people. And people will ask me how and I'm like, I do exactly what the coach tells me to do. And I. If they say, put your hand here, I'll look at them and say, do you mean every time? And if they say yes, regardless of where I want to put my hand, my hand goes right there. And then I'm not on the Internet looking for a way to cheat having my hand there or a short circuit or a shortcut.

[A]

That's what I do.

[B]

You strip everything away. I mean, because literally your life turns into blocks of just driving a rally courses or dirt bike or shooting. And you have the best people and a lot of what they do isn't applicable to the job, but you learn how to parse out what is. And then that becomes your fundamentals. And then you just build on those fundamentals over time. It doesn't surprise me that they were able to do that because that's what their life looks like at that point. You just shut everything off and do exactly what the person in front of you is telling you what to do.

[A]

It's also scary because you have to make sure that you're, you know, and I guess you have to understand, you have to know the people that you're listening to are the people that your

[B]

resume is pretty well established. And again, the people. So in the shooting world, you're talking about like Ipsic three gun multiple time, like grandmasters and world champions, when the dude shows up, the resume can be put to the side because it's like, here's the last 30 years of him crushing everybody. And when that guy says like, hey, this is how I hold a gun, I don't know, maybe just do exactly how he holds the gun. Maybe that won't work based off the gear you're wearing or whatever it is, but if you can Take those fundamentals and principles. It. You blow people out of the water. The. The whole job is about your ability to learn and solve problems. That's actually what it comes down to. And I think the training pipeline on both of those pathways, Navy side or army start, it looks for those people that are willing to do that and can kind of get out of their own way.

[A]

That's no ego, just, oh, there's plenty of ego there.

[B]

But they can turn it off for a little bit while they're learning.

[A]

Well, they understand what it takes to get there. No. And yeah, to be fair. So I'm going to take a step back on this too. So I've been honored, blessed, fortunate to work with a lot of really cool people that a lot of athletes, a lot of Olympians, a lot of. And since. So my dad had always done just a dinner, whatever he could for Walter Reed. And we started doing it bigger and bigger as we, you know, a lot of them missing limbs, missing stuff. And a lot of those were actually motorcycle crashes actually that end up at there. So we're only like 16 miles from Walter Reed Hospital. So we brought into Montana and some music guys and whatever. And then Black Rifle started being a part of it and allowing us to kind of help more and more veterans through the year and in different times of the year. And Black Rifle kind of uses. We call it Pastrana Land. Just my backyard. Basically. We've got motorcycles and can AMs and four wheelers and shooting range and pretty much whatever you could want to do as far as rednecks are concerned. They say look. So they bring over, you know, people like, like we were just talking about. And they said, look, we can't film anything today. Nothing gets filmed. Like, give them a good show. Bring straight Bike Tommy over to barbecue for him. Shoot the. And this is just kind of a. And BRCC has given me which is really, really cool, like kind of carte blanche on whatever this costs, whatever vehicles are destroyed. Hubert doesn't like it as much. Our mechanic dude. And even just we can break some stuff. I will have to say I've never had a day when more vehicles have been broken or that I've had more fun in my life than last year when those boys came over and not one bit of it was captured on film. And that was almost the most refreshing thing that I've ever done. I did need to sleep for two days after that 24 hours. But it was, it was pretty amazing. Yeah.

[B]

They come from a world where when the vehicle breaks, you just like, hey, I need another one of those. And they say, okay, our.

[A]

Our mechanic, Hubert, was not as excited

[B]

as I was about. Yeah, well, when you have an unlimited checkbook somehow tied to taxpayer dollars, it makes it a little bit easier to just go ahead and there's a dent or a scratch on the pain of the helicopter. Like, oh, yeah, just. Just get another one. It's totally fine. Put that one somewhere else. I don't want to see it again.

[A]

But they were extremely respectful.

[B]

They're awesome people. It's a lot of people think, and you can. You probably can attest to this with your time with them. People think that they're almost like superhero characters. They're some of the most normal people. They're very average in a lot of ways. They're. I would say they're outside of maybe. I don't even want necessarily want to say average. They have a different skill set. They're trained and refined to go down a different pipeline and a different skill set, but they're still just. They're your normal person. And most people would walk by them every day and not even know the difference.

[A]

And they. They get it done. And that's. They do get it done. It's fun having people over that when something flips down a hill and lands on them and cr. And they jump back up, durable with a smile going, what's next?

[B]

So, speaking of durability, Michael, you know what picture to pull up? Oh, I just.

[A]

No, I think this is probably what I think is. This is not accurate. Nope. I've got way.

[B]

Are you telling me that this is AI or this is just not up to date?

[A]

So. And I feel really bad actually now saying this because I've had multiple people come up to me and say, hey, man, I didn't think I was going to make it through this injury or this. This whatever. Yeah. And I saw your X ray and I see what you're doing now, and they. They cry and they're like, give me a hug. And I don't have the heart usually to say like, that is not actually my X ray. I keep trying to get it taken down or pulled.

[B]

No way.

[A]

But no.

[B]

So this has fooled me many times. Is at least that accurate.

[A]

I mean, I've. I've got a lot of that same stuff. But. But no, I mean, that is. So I do have a right knee, a left hip, a lot of that stuff through the. Through the pelvic area. I've got two longer screws through the. Through the back, but not as much up the back.

[B]

Do you have any idea whose body this actually is?

[A]

I feel bad for him. Someone that got hit really hard by something.

[B]

I mean, God, if this isn't you, I want to know what this person does for a living. Like, did you get run over by a steamroller?

[A]

This had to be one accident or

[B]

it's total BS and somebody just made this. And do you know how did this catch? When did you first see this?

[A]

Oh, so probably about two years ago it started showing up. But the bad part is now I've had a lot of people that I know that have like reposted it. Guys like Ryan Sheckler. And I'm like, I. I don't.

[B]

Your own homies are spreading the rooms.

[A]

Yeah, I mentioned it once on a podcast and then I. I talked to a few of my. But. And now I'm like, I get it so often where people come to me and they're like, literally, give me a hug. And like, I saw the X ray and I just. It gave me the motivation I needed them. So I almost feel bad even saying no to this now. But I'm not a liar. But yeah, but yeah, that person. I feel horrible for that person. But I mean, my. I've got a longer. My left collarbone is. Is definitely has a longer.

[B]

So let's do this. We'll do the compare and contrast walk us. Michael, go to the lower body, pick whatever foot you want to, and let's just do a once around lap of your body and explain to me all the learning points that you've had.

[A]

Can you go down to the feet? Because that's. No, can't get down. All right. So I. My. My left leg looks similar to that. I don't have a knee replacement in the left leg, but I've had 11 operations on my left knee, mostly because I tore my ACL when I was 10, which is before you could have so had an Andrew's procedure and all kinds of stuff there. Got a knee replacement on my right knee, so that would be fairly accurate there. Left hip. I do have a hip replacement there, so that's fairly accurate. Luckily, femurs like, I've had multiple tibia plateau fractures and everything, but all that metals out back. The pelvis looks fairly similar to that. My right foot, though and left ankle are pretty full of metal at the moment. My right foot had 40 fractures over seven bones, but the doctor said it was basically dust, so.

[B]

As in that's what was left of the bones. That's.

[A]

The bones just all kind of crumbled together. My foot was down. The bike landed on top of it. And it was funny because my dad always said, he goes, dude, he goes, you laid there like a little sissy at one of my crashes. And he goes, how you feeling? I was like, I'm okay. He's like, well, take this as a good example. When you hit the ground really, really hard, your body goes into. Not shock, but that, like, it always sucks. And you don't know you're broken until you stand up. And if you're broken, you fall back down. And so the time I had 40 fractures through my foot, it was at X Games. And I stood up and I actually felt the crumbling of the foot and I fell back down. And I kind of smiled in my head. I was like, he was right. You can always get back up. So anyway, going up, my left wrist has a lot more than that guy. So if we're. I'm assuming this guy's face forward. So.

[B]

Yeah. Hey, hard to sound an X ray which way he's facing. Yeah, we'll just do it as we're looking at it.

[A]

No, that's left over there. Because this is. That's l. So left. I got a lot. I got. Basically that guy's right is my left, but my right's pretty good. My right elbow, which would be. That is fairly similar. I had my first surgery on that. Right collarbone is actually pretty good. At a labrum surgery on that. My left collarbone has a lot more stuff than that guy. My whole back is actually pretty good. I've got just one fuse vertebrae down really low where you see that guy's there, but I've got none of whatever he's got in his neck. So to be fair, it's not far off, but it's. Yeah.

[B]

Now I'm on a lifelong mission to figure out who this person is and what they do and how have we never heard of this person?

[A]

It has to be military.

[B]

Ah, I don't know.

[A]

And someone worth saving. Well, mind you, honestly, if it was

[B]

the military, especially the last 20 years, being that damaged, most of the stuff is explosive and ballistic in nature, so the entire body probably wouldn't remain.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

You know what I mean? So it would be tough. This person at least looks like they have all of the. The skeletal and muscular system still intact. But good God, how do you. I mean, there's. There's another aspect of this that doesn't show up in X rays, and that's obviously. I know you have some family history of concussions from your close family, but also yourself at 30 plus concussions. At this point you worry about that stuff at all? Because that's one of the lingering things that I worry about because it doesn't show up on an X ray. Some days you can feel it more than others, but you can feel that there's a difference. And I don't know what the long term consequences and effects of that are.

[A]

So my uncle Alan actually has. So he was quarter after Broncos for two years, got knocked out by Hightower from police Academy. If you've ever seen that movie way back when there's actually a ruling NFL Pastrana rule, it was before the quarterback. So I'm not allowed to call timeout. And they were, you know, on like the 10 yard line with less than a minute to go and the time ran out because, well, he was unconscious and couldn't call timeout. So now the coach and people are allowed to call it. But it changed his whole personality. Evidently I didn't meet him before and that was 71, 72, something like that. So I was born a three, but my dad was always very adamant. He's like, look, nothing is worth, no amount of money is worth having a personality change. No, not my uncle Allen. He was the most sensitive, caring, loving, like focused human in, in the world after this. But they said, you know, before that he was a little meaner, a little tougher, a little less emotional. So complete change in personality from, from concussions or maybe one big concussion. Not really sure. Didn't know him before that. But at the end of the day, I was very fortunate to go down through boot campaign, through Morgan Luttrell, Marcus Luttrell's brother, and went down to see Dr. Hart. They took three of the nitro circus crew that had us that had the most concussions and went down through it. And what was the most fascinating part through the whole thing was that there's not really a template for what a human body can take. And every human is very, very different. So Dr. Hart said, think about your family history and think about for example, anyone that's made it in a contact sport, chances are has is predispositioned to be able to take a hit. And he's like, I have patients that have had 50 plus bad concussions, minutes unconscious, that are still at 7 years old, the sharpest humans you ever met. And I've had people that one concussion, not even fully unconscious, change their whole personality.

[B]

So that in and of itself is wild, the diversity between people and the outcome from that.

[A]

So he goes, look, we have. So he's kind of the one that sets for U.S. government like, oh, you're supposed to take the X amount of time off. He's like, I've had people that could be knocked out for 15 minutes that I would approve to go back out there and get right back competition. And I've had people that after a mild concussion, I would not approve after a year. So he goes, we have to set guidelines on it. And he goes, the guidelines are to save the athletes from themselves. Because every athlete. And I've done this before where I'll. There's video of me saying, no, I'm perfectly fine. I'm. I'm good. I don't remember racing that race. I remember racing what happened. Oh, yeah, I crashed the dirt bike, obviously, because that's what. Yeah, you know, it's just your mind goes to that. So at the end of the day, I found it very interesting that most of the top action sports athletes in freestyle motocross, our parents were boxers or. Sorry. Or grandparents were boxers.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

My granddad was Golden Globe boxers. She had you down the list. Like, it's. So not only did we be become successful in action sports, but we have a lineage of concussed people. So maybe that's just nurture over nature, but maybe it's because when we hit our heads, we can come back without losing that. So there was nothing on any of the MRIs and any of the CAT scans, anything that would indicate that I have any kind of CTE or long term effects. But something that was extremely interesting, again thanks to Black Rifle in the military context. We did a blood test and they said, hey, you're really low in. Sorry, low in cholesterol. And I was like, okay. So they said, oh, you have taken a lot of hits to the head. And I was like, what? Cholesterol? They said, oh, yeah, all the breachers are. So I assume, you know what?

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

So you have met best and that kind of stuff. So anyone that fires a lot of rounds of whatever high explosives or.

[B]

Yeah, most of the time it's. It's exposure to making entry.

[A]

Yeah, well, for breachers, yeah.

[B]

Yeah, for breachers, yeah.

[A]

But. But they can tell through how high or low your cholesterol is. And it's funny. So fish oil, cholesterol, that kind of stuff. All the stuff they said, keep low. Now there's a certain level of it that, you know, you have heart attacks and there's a different side.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But what's been really interesting is long term, they found that most of the people that have Alzheimer's and that kind of stuff are low in certain types of cholesterol or whatever it is. I need to do a little bit more research on this. It's an interesting metric track, but it's something that hasn't really come out. So it's been really cool to see all of the military and the studies that are being done on concussions and injuries, and that kind of stuff is now funneling into sports and hopefully funneling into what the rest of the world is going to know and understand. Sorry, I keep hitting this.

[B]

Yeah, that doesn't matter.

[A]

But, yeah. So what the rest of the world knows and understands about concussion protocol, and you guys have been leading that charge now, we're. We're paying for all of our stuff, but to be able to have access to the best doctors and that kind of stuff has been extremely helpful. So it's helped us in action sports understand what we need to really pull back. As far as our guys like Aaron Wheels Fatherham is a good example. Spina bifida. He knows no limits. He's in a wheelchair doing these huge jumps, and we've had to pull him a few times for Nitrous Circus and even pulled him on a few tours. And that's really hard for us to do to a friend and for. But he has a lot of times where he hits his head. He's in a wheelchair, so if it goes wrong, he just gets kind of shit whipped to the ground.

[B]

As you can see, he takes a

[A]

whipper and he's always that guy that's, you know, he's durable, he's strong. He's been told his whole life that he can't do stuff. He's like, I can do it. I'm like, I know you can. And physically, you'll go back out there even if you don't remember doing it, and you'll probably land this. Um, but what was interesting, the doctor said that action sports, especially dirt bikes, you have very low chance of CTE long term, because if you hit your height hard enough that you have a concussion, chances are you break something, too. So he goes, the problem is going to be your. Your airbags and your resi. Ramps and all the stuff that you're doing to make it safer for your body is actually where you have more repetitive injury. So, highest rate of CTE is female soccer. What percentage wise? Not the highest number. Total?

[B]

Yeah. No, I guess.

[A]

Yeah, percentage. And it's from headbutting the ball. They had butt in the same spot. And genetically not as generationally predispositioned to take the hits. And the doctor was clear. He's like, I'm not. It's not a sexist. It's just like, if you look at this, this is just generation after generation, guys have taken more hits. Now there are many girls that are much tougher physically and emotionally and everything than the guys are. But in general, that is just something that's been coming on. They said, look, you can't take the same hit. It's guaranteed brain damage. If you hit your head hard enough and it doesn't recover and you hit it again the same spot, that's brain damage. Now go to a different thing. So we back many years ago, I got to do a blood test and everything. And they. So Red Bull took us and went through physical, emotional testing with all their athletes. And they use military as well. And they do a lot of military stuff for seals and especially. I don't know if you've ever been through their stuff about out west California, but they go, okay. There was this one test that was an hour long. It was an easy test, but it was a reaction time test. So they said, go as fast as you can and you have four different pictures every time. If you take longer than a second to hit the the pictures, three orange drafts and a green draft. Three cars in a truck, really basic. And you hit the screen, and every time you hit the screen, a new set pops up. So if you hit, you could do three a second. If you're super fast for an hour, so. Or if you miss three times, you pick the wrong thing. So I made the hour. My reaction time got better. It was the best in the last 10 minutes of any of the 10 minutes. And they said, okay, I had two misses. So got lucky, didn't have three misses. But they said, we've never had. We. We've had two other people that made it an hour. And so we looked at their, their head scans and your show similar. We want you to do it again. I made it through the second hour and my fastest time was from 40 to 50 minutes in hour two. Best reaction time without missing three. So interestingly, like, we don't have brain scans of you before this, but Most people operate 100 in their, their center. Center lobe for whatever they said. You have three main brain areas that, that operate now. Maybe you had a really bad concussion. I was in like physically induced coma basically when I was 11 years old after my third concussion that year. Broke my pelvis. Don't remember a month of my life. You know, one of those moments where mom and dad are like, are you sure this is really what you want to do? Because for sure, you know this things

[B]

aren't going well right now.

[A]

Yeah, you keep landing on your head, kid. So maybe that has something to do with it. They're like, we don't have brain scans of you before. But what was interesting was the two other people before you that made it all the way through with, you know, to the end of the hour that had decent reaction times, whatever that, that didn't miss the three things. One was a retired boxer and the other was retire retired hockey player.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

They both had more concussions than anyone else and they both. So the hockey player had four main areas, the boxer had three. This is very rare for anyone to have like more than one main. Like when they, they hook up to electrodes and stuff. Could all be bs, could all be whatever. But it was really interesting to know that they're like, there's something to this, that maybe the injuries that you've had have helped you to be able to spread this weight throughout your brain.

[B]

I was just thinking that and then thinking, I don't know if I should say that because I don't know if people would take that as advice to go smash.

[A]

No, no,

[B]

that's exactly where my, my thought went though. I'm like, wow, I wonder if there

[A]

was, there's no knowledge on what our brain scans were before, if this was normal, if this was not normal or if that was concussion related. Yeah, they were just like, hey, fun fact.

[B]

That is a cool fact though. Now you mentioned earlier that at this point in your life, maybe two or three times a year, you'll find yourself in that place of where you know you're on, on the edge. And I think, and I, I watch people and I've listened to people, they talk about Alex Honnold all the time. And I'm sure you've seen Free Solo where the psychopath just completely climbs his sheer face. And I was sweating watching that, knowing that he was still alive years after the documentary was made. And he gets asked about risk all the time. And I think people, they assume that you don't know when you are going to be in that level of risk. And I played around in some of the stuff that you do, mostly on the skydiving and base jumping side of the house. And people would ask me the same thing and I'm like, listen, it's kind of a choose your own adventure. I choose to enter into that type of risk on such infrequent levels that I feel like in that moment, the risk. Especially if the weather is right and the wind is right and the sunlight, all of those things. And if those aren't there, you just drift away from the object a little bit and the safety profile can start going up. But so many people, they'll just oh, you're an adrenaline junkie. I'm like, don't get me wrong, I enjoy doing this. But I think people misunderstand how calculated you are when you are exposing yourself to that risk. It's not like you hop out of bed and then accidentally end up at that spot where you have to perform.

[A]

The safest places that I am generally like most of the risk happens on the stuff that you've done routinely for a long time. Cuz you forget how dangerous it is to backflip a dirt bike or to do whatever you're doing. Those moments that you're in that very, very like top end of your risk factor or your skill level or whatever you're doing. Chances are if you've made it for a long time in action sports or you're still alive today doing what you're doing that you've come to understand the risk reward and the calculation behind it and the calculation behind this biggest stunts usually means that those are going to go the best and you have the least, not the least chance of failure. But you've already gone through every possible scenario.

[B]

It's controlled almost, I don't like to use that word because there's still an essence of chance and it being uncontrolled. But you've like you said you're looking at stuff with a team and trying to reduce variables down to almost like. And I get what it looks like on YouTube, like oh my God, Travis is at it again. But it's not accidental. And that is what I think is missed. Like honnold. Don't get me wrong, there's not enough, there's not a pile of money tall enough in the world for me to attempt something like that. But he also just didn't wake up in his van and be like today's the day and go fire that off.

[A]

No, but the interesting part is I can just imagine as you're going up and you have a rope and you're looking, you're like, okay, I'm just gonna jump to that one. And you're gonna have like, you know your muscles aren't going to give out because you're like I'm gonna do it. But if you're like I'm gonna jump to that one and If I miss or you know, that that led you. Sorry. It takes a completely different now. Maybe you get more energy, maybe you get more, maybe it works better. But like. So for me, when I had my biggest mess ups at X Games, it was because in practice and I started doing this Josh Sheehan actually with his triple backflip, he was only doing sets of three triples. And I'm like, dude, like you only got two more days. Like you're doing, you're doing nine flips a day morning. Like nine triple flips. Yeah, that's a, that's a lot. And everyone's a huge impact. He goes, I want each one to be meaningful. I want each one to be strong. And what I realized was shortly after that I did a trick back, like backflip360. And I was. When I was tired at the end of the day, they were just working really well. And I always had a little trouble in the first one. So I'm like, oh, I'm not focused or I'm not flowing. And then I had like a week off before X Games and I had so much more strength and I overspun and over flipped and over and like there I am with my shattered foot. And I thought to myself, I was like, oh, practice how you perform. And that I don't think you can do on the free solo thing because there's no way. The adrenaline, no matter how much adrenaline it is, when you know that you have a safety net, it's completely different.

[B]

What if a bird had just gone up there and shit and you're just like, gah. And like, are you gonna like curse the bird on your way down?

[A]

Like, probably.

[B]

I think I would too. You can just tell. You just watch the cameramen on that video where they're filming them and they're all just like, oh my God, I've never, I'd never mountain climbing again. I never want to do that. Like, they were just completely amped out of their mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I have found, and again, I've. I've only flirted with some of the activities that you have done, but I've been able to work with some cool sponsors and brands along the way. In the moment, I'm not feeling like that at all. I didn't realize though that a lot of people who are there watching you do the type of stuff that you do, they're amped out of their mind because they're terrified and you're just like in the zone, crushing, just performing. It's a totally different headspace. If you were to measure the fear and anxiety, you would probably be substantially lower than somebody who is sitting there supporting you in that endeavor.

[A]

As a father, I think you can understand that.

[B]

Oh, God. I can 100% understand it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You got some fun times coming as a father.

[A]

Oh, boy. When you say fun, I'm.

[B]

It's the opposite of that.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

And you have both daughters, correct?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

Not. Not helping.

[B]

I'm not even going to tell you what's on the horizon because I don't want to steal from you the pain of life that is coming for you.

[A]

Mystery loves company.

[B]

Now it is. You know, all three of my kids are so wildly, so wildly different. On different journeys with. In you and I made it through. And I think most people would look at us and say we've made some questionable choices in life.

[A]

I think all of them. Yes.

[B]

So if we're still here today, they're gonna make it. I just. I try to be there for a little bit of guardrails, a little bit of parental support. I think your kids, though, are probably still at an age where you are, like, the key figure in their life, you and your wife. At some point, one of the toughest shifts that I realized was, oh, their social circle has achieved that. That spot. And that's a tough one as a parent.

[A]

Yeah. The guiding shifts, well, they just spend

[B]

more time with them than they do with you. Because 100. You, as in my mind, I'm like, okay, you're likely one of the more fascinating people on earth because of the. That you do. Because I love all the stuff that you do. And one day your kids will be like, yeah, you're the most boring person that I've ever met in my life, and I want to go hang out with my friends. Brought to you by Firecracker Farm. You want to talk about things that integrate into my life. This product right here might be one of the easier ad reads that I do. I am putting this hot salt on just about everything. And I'm being the first to tell you, I don't understand the chemical reaction and how it's able to pull the flavors out of everything I'm putting it on from eggs in the morning to avocado toast to steak, just about everything. I'm not a psychopath. I don't put it on fruit. I haven't tried that yet. I don't understand how it does it. How it pulls the flavors out, how it makes everything that I eat taste better, but it does. My recommendation to you is to head over to Firecracker Dot Farm to check out what they have to offer because they have legitimately very spicy hot salts, but they also have new stuff like the Vanilla Heat flavor, which I'm pretty sure Alex's daughter had the idea for. They sent me some. It has been my absolute go to. And then everything in between is going to come in these stainless steel push button grinders. All you got to do is drive the plunger down with your thumb and you can control how much. I don't have a crazy heat tolerance, so I'll generally use one or two pumps. But you can go as insane as you may like. So you can get them on firecracker.com or we actually sell these in the coffee shop here locally in Kalispell. Or if you live somewhere that has a black rifle coffee, you can get them in store as well. Alex and his family are creating these products together at their small family farm. So this is your opportunity to really level up your seasoning game, but also support the American dream For a family that is all in on this and they're doing it together. So it's an amazing opportunity. The best way to do so probably for most people, head over to Firecracker Farm, check out what they have to offer. I would. I would suggest the Vanilla Heat. You won't regret it. Back to the show.

[A]

The interesting part when you say that is that, like, my kids won't even watch. Even if it's a Disney movie that has. If it has a motorcycle, they turn it off.

[B]

Just completely disinterested, completely disengaged.

[A]

And both my daughters drive and ride, but especially one of them, like, you could, like, you could really be a Danica Patrick. You could make a living doing this. Like, you're just. You have that natural ability and you get really pissed off when you lose. I'm like, this is this. This could be your career. And they see racing as. So I saw racing as what I spent with my family to go hang out with my friends and my family. And I got to be around my dad and my mom more at races than I did anywhere. So as a kid, I loved that. I loved being in the motorhome. I love sleeping in the motorhome when we're driving or, you know, the truck or whatever we were driving, depending on what year it was. And I really liked that circle for my kids when they go to a motocross track, which is awesome. The day this stops, the day that I can't make a living doing what I love, but I get swarmed which is great. Yeah. But I walk in and out of this fantasy world where everyone wants to talk to me and I'm. You're either a complete or you're the nicest person in the world. There's no, like I said, there's no middle. So it's my job at a track, at a racetrack to talk to people. And I, I genuinely say enjoy all of it. But like you, most of the people there have that common interest. And what they're talking about is very like their stories relatable. And I've been, that's like, it's, it's fun. But for my kids, it's time that they just get pushed aside. It's time that my wife, who's a three time X Games go medalist and they'll just not even look at her and give her a phone and she's like, oh, when my chop liver.

[B]

So the phone handoff.

[A]

Yeah, you've seen it and I watched you Lemol.

[B]

It's. You actually are fantastic about it. You go out of your way to go talk to the people that are excited there to see you, probably whether or not you want to do it or feel like doing it or not.

[A]

But I go in that fantasy world understanding that it is and I haven't. I know now to not bring my kids. Like I said, my daughter went down to. To watch the Daytona race, was extremely disappointed in me. I won't make that mistake again. To not get to the front. If I say I'm gonna get to the front, at least try to crash, you know, at least you could do is crash. But I find it really interesting that even so for me it was always looking at the top racers. They were always on this other level. It was almost like godly. I'm like, that's where I want to go. And now I realize that the journey was the exciting part and the friends. And now like I enjoy the most. I still enjoy competing on the highest level, but I also can enjoy a dollar bet with my friends on a hair scrambles, ride on freaking pit bikes like it doesn't really matter. It's. It's that fun with the family. It's fun with, with that kind of stuff. So for my kids, they see Olympians and world record holders and NASCAR champions and celebrities, and they see them all the time. So there's no.

[B]

You've muted them to the world. Yeah, it'd be very difficult to impress, which is fantastic when it comes to dating time.

[A]

Yeah. I feel bad for, for they're like,

[B]

oh, what oh, you're a straight A student?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cool. What sports do you play? Oh, online gaming. Get out of here, dork.

[A]

That's what I'm hoping for anyway. We'll see how that works.

[B]

Your daughters are gonna be really hard to impress and I am thankful for

[A]

that for you on this. They're very confident, which is good. Almost too confident at times, but I like the confidence a little bit. But. So I was asked by their school to come speak. Am I Daughters were like, no, you cannot speak while we are still going to the school after we go to high school. Then you can, you can tell them, don't be mean, don't make enemies. Tell them that you will come speak as soon as we both get. And my oldest daughter was like, I really, I'd like to go by a different last name when I go to like if we go to high school, if I change high schools. She. I was like, well, I'm like, she's like, no, no, everyone loves you. It's great. But people look at me if I'm not the best or if I want to cry or anything. Like people just expect a completely different. And this doesn't even come from just the fact that it's me. So imagine that my granddad was golden glove boxer, my uncle was quarterback for Denver Broncos. There's big lineage. Now when I was. So I blew up my ACL at 10 years old and I went to the doctors, Dr. Steele and he. I walked in like, didn't make any reservations to go to orthopedic. All of my uncles were on first name basis with all the orthopedic surgeons in Annapolis. We walk in. Hey Robert, how's it doing? Yeah, what's up, Estrada? Oh, here's the new one.

[B]

Got another one for you.

[A]

No novocaine? No numbing? No, just like, you know, use the iodine or whatever. Straight into the knee because the knee was huge. Yeah. And I started like, you know, a couple tears. 10 years old, I came down and he's like grinding on the top of my kneecap and he's talking to dad and I like kind of started passing out. He's like, not very tough for a pastrana, is he?

[B]

Holy cow.

[A]

So now imagine that's what I was brought up in. And now imagine that that same thing kind of goes like we had the weren't known for being the smartest, but definitely known for being the toughest family in this town. And when my daughter goes to that school, she's like, it's really hard to just have a Normal conversation with. With anyone without extra expectations. She's like, I'd really like to try to maybe like if I could go a little further out of town to go to like high school and try a different name.

[B]

I hadn't thought about it like that. Yeah, you definitely exist in a different orbit of just recognizability for what you've done. Your dossier of work spans a couple decades, which is impressive, by the way.

[A]

Well, but also not just my workspace. It's been generational.

[B]

The legacy of that is kind of

[A]

rough in the best way.

[B]

I mean, I didn't come from that world by any stretch. That. That's actually a lot. I mean, being that age as a young woman is pressure filled anyway. Or a young man. Yeah, I can't really imagine that additional. Whether it's real or not, feeling there's that additional expectation at all times. That's tough.

[A]

So I think that's why she's excelling in academics, which I'm perfectly fine.

[B]

She's just trying to get you that chance to come speak at the school. You know, she's just. She's opening up the Runway for later after I'm done. God. Yeah, I have, you know, at a smaller level. I went and spoke one time at my daughter's class. She asked me more questions than anybody else in the room. And I realized it's because I'm the most uninteresting person to her. And so stuff I was talking about, she was hearing it for the first time. It was just like, what I'm like, julia, take it easy. Like we can have this conversation. And it meant she never asked me about it again. So I still remain resoundingly the most uninteresting person to all three of my children, which is probably better because they don't have that level of expectation.

[A]

That is probably good. So question your father. You said Vietnam.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So my dad, Vietnam, he wanted to be infantry, but he wrote on his. Because he's construction.

[B]

So same as my father as well. Brick and stonemason.

[A]

Yeah, perfect. Exactly the same. And yeah, concrete. So they. And basement waterproofing and snow plowing and whatever they had to do during the winter. But yeah, so he goes in and he was pretty good at operating machinery. So they ended up. He was in Marines, but they're mostly operating machinery and building roads.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

So. But I always ask him questions and I rarely. Luckily we were able to a podcast with Logan not too long ago.

[B]

Fantastic.

[A]

And I heard more military stories there than. And it's really does your dad talk? I find there's no my dad.

[B]

So my dad was on the first squadron of patrol boats, the Mark Ones that went into Vietnam when they were messing around with the Jacuzzi jet engines. When I was in, I was on the Mark Fives. So the lineage from where they started to where they were. And he, maybe regretfully so, was the first person that had ever mentioned the word SEAL to me. He wasn't a seal, but they were in an insertion and an extraction platform, and it hooked me right from the beginning. But growing up, never talked about his time in Vietnam. We moved to Montana. We were living down in Missoula when I was very young. I remember that it snowed, and I got in trouble for throwing snowballs at cars, which is what young men makes sense, should be doing, honestly. Don't put a rock in the middle of it, but yeah, plaster your neighbor's cars. And I remember one time he was, sorry, dad, out in the backyard in the snow and just as tighty whities just yelling, what are you doing? And come to find out, the reason that we live there is my mom gave him an ultimatum, and she basically said, you need to get your shit together. I'm taking the kids and leaving. And he had. As most people from Vietnam, you know, they didn't get the welcome home that my generation of people in the military have, which an argument could be made that that has gone even just too far with the welcome home and the. The pedestal that sometimes people are put on. But his was the exact opposite of that. So I never heard stories about Vietnam, and. And my dad's dad was in the Navy, and my dad's dad's dad was in the Navy. I didn't know my great grandfather. I was alive when he was alive, but I don't remember him. And my dad's relationship with his father was very split, and he departed out of our life not from a death perspective, but just being involved in our life. When I was about 11 and like a legacy of military service that I know almost nothing about. And even to this day, he doesn't. He doesn't talk about it much. And it's. He still. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I. I think it's safe to say, still has times where he struggles with that. So it's the same. It's exactly the same thing. It's one of the most common things I've heard from people who served in that generation. Yeah, it's.

[A]

Hopefully, hopefully, we'll sit down one Day and have some. Some talk. He's.

[B]

So what I do is I'll have him come in and we do like Friday episodes and I just pass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Their time cap.

[A]

Because then it's for. It's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Makes sense. And in that sense, start a podcast.

[B]

You should. You should just for that. It's an emerging market. It's. You would actually do fantastically well at it and it would instantaneously probably top the. The charts. But you're an over performer and I appreciate that.

[A]

Thanks for having me on. Oh, dude.

[B]

Yeah. No, when I was. When we finally did the. I've had deals on and off with Black Rifle and Evan was like, screw it, dude. We're going all in. I'm like, yeah, no, I've been telling you that for seven years. Welcome to the Good Idea Train. He's like, who do you want to talk to? I'm like, Pastrana, obviously, like all the BRCC guys.

[A]

But you got.

[B]

You were the top one on the list for sure.

[A]

Thanks a lot. Dude.

[B]

I've been watching your stuff. Like, people like, how could. How could somebody jump out of an airplane without a parachute? I'm. And when I say that video, I'm

[A]

like, yeah, I want to try that. I'm like, I could do that. Oh, 100. One of the easiest things. It's illegal, as it turns out, but yeah, not up.

[B]

You were in Panama.

[A]

You know what I mean? I, I. Unfortunately, I'm not that smart. I went to Puerto Rico.

[B]

Oh, that is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Panama. You would have been golden.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, but I look at that video, people. He's crazy. I'm like, he is crazy. But I could do that.

[A]

Oh, 100.

[B]

And then I'm looking, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, you get. You need to guy. Get a guy with the tandem rig on that probably be a little bit safer. Yeah, like, yeah, we can figure that out.

[A]

Out. So actually the guy that got me was a JTAC because I couldn't. I couldn't find anyone that was actually making a living. I couldn't find a. A pilot or any skydivers that were actually making a living to do that. So we did mx was the film guy. He's like, I'm just going to be a part of it. I'm going fly on the wall and I'll film this. Yeah. I was like, perfect. So he was the only actual legit Scott. Like we had some kid flying a plane that probably didn't have his license. Yeah, maybe. And yeah, it was fine. He was good pilot.

[B]

You Know how many jumps did you have at the time?

[A]

I like, 500 jumps. Like, I'm not.

[B]

Plenty. That's plenty. You got to figure it out.

[A]

But, I mean, those guys could have. I could have dropped an Anvil out, waited 10 seconds, they would have gone again. I mean, there's no good way to say this. He mounted me, but, you know. Yeah. So we were supposed to go to 12, 000ft, but at like 11, 000, I was super cold and I was losing. Yeah, yeah. It Product test, I got the most trouble for dropping the can. And I didn't plan on dropping the can. I planned on putting it kind of in the suit, but you were in

[B]

the moment, you know?

[A]

Yeah. So then right here, when I started flipping, they all kind of freaked out. What are you doing? So. And then this. So the guy that's holding me there, his name's Timmy. Yep. He was a tunnel rat. So this is only his, like, 15th actual skydive.

[B]

Yeah. But he's just an absolute Jedi in the air.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

They do a single strap around you, essentially, to hold you in place.

[A]

So. Yeah. So I had a rock climb harness on.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So underneath the board shorts. Yeah, rock climb harness. But, yeah, I got so much flack for dropping that. That can.

[B]

So I'm remarried now. The woman I'm married to didn't know me when I was in the military or when I was doing BASE jumping or skydiving to the degree that I used to. And she saw this video and she goes, you'd never do this, right? And I was like.

[A]

I mean, I had to sit there

[B]

for a second, and because I didn't answer right away, she goes, no, you would never consider doing something like this. Right. And then so I paused even longer because in my head, I'm thinking, I love this person so much, and I want to give them the right answer,

[A]

but I also want to lie to them.

[B]

But I also want to give them the truth. I'm like, well, yes, I would 100% do that. I would have a robust amount of training leading up to it.

[A]

No, but it's just like. It's the people around you and the hard part. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you.

[B]

And then she looks at me, she goes, what the fuck is wrong with you? I'm like, listen, I'm sorry. I thought I was very clear about who I was before we got married. I'm just.

[A]

So you already married at this point?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I was hoping this was a premarital.

[B]

No. Every once in a While we'll come across a video, because my Instagram feed looks a lot different than hers does. And she'll say, what are you looking at? What is. Why are you looking at that? I'm like, I don't know. Just general interest. Yeah. And she goes, you're not thinking about doing that, are you? Like,

[A]

kind of my mind.

[B]

Yeah. It's not that I'm thinking about doing it. I did calculate on a spreadsheet to see what the entry cost would be to maybe, like, dip my toes into the water.

[A]

No.

[B]

This stuff to me again. People also don't understand, though. You didn't just wake up one morning and find some people and jump out of an airplane and do that.

[A]

No, the people around me were correct. They were great. Yeah. And I was okay.

[B]

Yeah. 500 jumps. You got to figure it out for sure.

[A]

Well, the thing was. So we did one test jump, took everyone down. Puerto Rico did test jump, and I jumped out, and I tried to get away from. So I jumped out and I just go as fast as I could, and I got level and they just tackled me.

[B]

Yeah, they were on.

[A]

You hooked the. The rock climb harness on from one of it, unhooked it. I did two flips, dove as fast as I could, opened up on me again, and then they opened and it all worked. And I'm like, okay, if I can try to get away from you twice. Yeah. Come on. Yeah, we're fine.

[B]

Crazy, man.

[A]

That was my math. Anyway.

[B]

That's about where my head would be on that as well, too. I consider that to be a robust planning and training.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Protocol.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you had gone to Panama, it

[A]

would have been way smarter.

[B]

How much trouble did you actually end up getting in?

[A]

So the head of the U.S. united

[B]

States parachute association, taking it real pissy sometimes. I've gotten a few calls from them.

[A]

Well, what had happened was right before this, we just got in trouble for. We had a helicopter guy, another military. Yeah, awesome dude. And he was picking us up from the. The lake. And then we jump off the helicopter. Like, hey, you know, there's static electricity. You guys could have been shocked to death or whatever. And the helicopter pilot was like, no, because this. But whatever. Like, hey, this is not. You can't do that. And then you jumped out of his helicopter with only bass rigs, which only has one parachute. You need two parachutes if the door is open. Anyway, so we just got in a lot of trouble. And then this came out. So I was already, like, not in.

[B]

You were on the radar?

[A]

I was on the Radar.

[B]

So last call I got from them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you ever seen the military where they push the bundles out? Yeah. So I had an idea to get inside of one of those with a BASE jumping rig on. So amazing. It was amazing. And I made a little porthole, and I.

[A]

Did you get stuck in it at all?

[B]

Absolutely not. It was amazing. It totally functioned. So my buddy goes out, he sets the bundle. He lets it go. He sets his drogue, deploys the parachute. A lot of G loading in the bundle as it comes down and starts spinning. On opening, it's just like a top. Not that big of a deal because I was kind of, like, wedged up against the wall on the inside.

[A]

But worst case scenario, you're under a parachute.

[B]

Under a parachute. And if he had to cut it away, you can also cut the bundle out. Like it. I already figured I could easily get a knife. I had. We had everything good to go. And so it opens up, and I climb up on top of the bundle, and I got my base rig on, and we're flying around, and I throw him a drink up there. And we're. Yeah, we're having a drink. And then I gain her off the top of the thing, and then I start getting calls because we put it on the Internet and start getting calls from uspa. And I'm like, listen, listen. This was a military operation, so you don't have any say.

[A]

So the interesting part was the guy who might have been the same time frame, the head of the USPA goes, hey, look, there have been other idiots that have done this. No one has been stupid enough to put it on YouTube.

[B]

Yeah, that's kind of what we did.

[A]

They, like, we have to punish you. So there was a fine. I lost my parachute license. I ended up. I started over. I'm still an A license now because I lost everything that I had before that. But it's. It's okay.

[B]

You got the experience.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm gonna let you guys go to the coffee shop. I gotta hop over and do that other episode real fast. And then we'll sit back down for, like, 20, 30 minutes, and then we'll go do helicopter stuff.

[A]

Thank you for your time.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

Appreciate it. Yeah.

[B]

You ready, Michelle? Yep, we're going. All right, first thoughts of the coffee shop. What do you think?

[A]

I think it's awesome. I mean. I mean, you know, I feel like, whoa.

[B]

No, seriously, only mention the good parts.

[A]

So I was waiting for Verdov to get there to pick me up from the airport, and two people came by and Both were like, what are you doing in Kalispell? Yeah, I'm gonna go to the coffee shop.

[B]

You are largely recognizable, I must say.

[A]

Well, I mean, I don't know. I had the.

[B]

Not just in general, so.

[A]

But yeah, whatever reason it was, you know, Montana's kind of. The further away you get from a big city, the more people, percentage wise, know who I am. I go to New York, nobody recognized me.

[B]

You know the key there, though.

[A]

What's up?

[B]

Don't go.

[A]

Okay. Exactly.

[B]

Don't go. I go from here, living in the great blue, wide open space to New York, and I actually feel like the buildings are somehow going to collapse in on me. Just don't go.

[A]

Yeah, There's.

[B]

There's.

[A]

I'm 100 with you. But anyway, so to go back. No, but it was cool because when I mentioned the shop, everyone's like, oh, that place is awesome. I'm gonna stop by later. I was like, I don't know when I'm gonna be there. But, like, anyway. So, yeah, walk in. And the coolest part about it. So we did. We went shopping. So I bought quite a bit of stuff.

[B]

They should charge you. I'm gonna go ahead and reverse those charges.

[A]

No, no, you're good. They offer 50 off, and we said, you know what? We're gonna pay full price. We appreciate you. Yeah, but. But long story long on that, I thought it was cool looking around a very diverse group of people that weren't just there for coffee. They were there for a place to hang out that just felt. It's like sitting here in this. It. There's something about it. It's just. It's got a good vibe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

I'm glad you liked it. It was. It's funny you mentioned hanging out and enjoying the space. The original idea came from my first business partner and I were talking about where would you go in town if you wanted to have something that is social but also the chance to do a business meeting? So it could be like a combined space, but also a little bit separated. It didn't exist. So we had the wild ass.

[A]

I mean, there were kids there. I swear they were doing. It looked like they were at a homeschool group that was the group together or they were working on a project of some sort.

[B]

Every morning we have a different group that comes in a couple of the mornings. Bible studies from a variety of different congregations come in. We host firefighter stuff. There are families that come in there from. It's exactly what we wanted it to be, which has been really Cool. So, yeah, you have. I almost forgot to ask you. Tell me about the wind tunnel that you own.

[A]

I own a very expensive rectus set.

[B]

It's actually not a tunnel.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's a.

[A]

It would be. What would you consider the world's largest outdoor wind device? Device. So let me go back to the start of this. I have some friends in the tunnel industry, let's say that like skydiving and all that, the good stuff. And I was looking into seeing if I could, for a YouTube episode, fly one of My Children with a couple fans, you know, how do we build this? Yep. We failed miserably. We even hooked them to like a. A tether in just case they started flying. Just to, you know, it was gonna be great. It didn't work. They were extremely disappointed. And in this process, we ended up talking to a tunnel operator and they said, hey, we would love to start working more in the US we build a tunnel for the Mission Impossible series. So Tom Cruise and I don't know Tom Cruise at all. Yeah, never met him, might never meet him. But what was really cool is the stuff that he's doing recently. He goes, hey, I want to do this stunt or be a part of this or go race even. You know, Brad Pitt, he's like, I want to go race cars, so let's do an F1 movie. So these actors that have gotten to that level are actually doing really cool stuff. Tom Cruise, hey, I want to fly a fighter jet. And I want all everyone to experience this fighter jet. And what's going to separate this movie is that we're actually pulling the G's.

[B]

The. You could see it. It's just like this stuff coming down.

[A]

Not green screen.

[B]

No.

[A]

So Tom Cruise goes, I want everyone to skydive. And everyone's like, yeah, no, no, no, that's not, that's not, that's not gonna work. So he goes, how can I make this happen? So he builds a five million dollar tunnel, second biggest wind tunnel in the world, only by just very, very little to Saudi or Dubai. Yeah. And only marginally smaller, but that's obviously in.

[B]

It's a massive tube.

[A]

Massive tube, yeah. So he goes, we're going to green screen around the outside and we're gonna be able to fly 5, 6 people with camera crews going around. And we're gonna get all the people because their agents are going to sign off on them. If they're going to be part of the movie, they're at least going to do this. So they were like, okay, insurance wise, we can yeah, they don't have to pull. Shoot. They're not actually like, we can just turn the wind down. We'll get it. So they had this company build a tunnel, and then they rented the tunnel back, almost paid for it. So this tunnel company goes, hey, you know, shipping and handling plus a million dollars. I was like, the tunnel's worth like, five times that much. Yeah, I didn't realize the tariffs came in at a wrong time and all this other stuff that happened. But anyway, so I get hit with a bunch of stuff, and we got it there, and I'm all excited. I got this pattern.

[B]

This is at your house.

[A]

So now I have no say. Lindsay's my wife. Her Amazon bill can be as big as it wants because I've got this huge erector set. And every time I say anything about the. The packages coming to the door, she's like, just points over in the corner of the. It's huge. So it got there. And I got these great friends at Power plus, bunch of just. And the guy that owns Power plus, like, which does all the generators and stuff for, you know, any power needs, really. But if there's an emergency, a hurricane or something, they get the cities back operational. So he goes, look. So they sent me the wind tunnel guys, and I didn't read the 15 pages. I just read the fine print. It was like, okay, one megawatt. I was like, one megawatt. Half million dollar generator. Okay, Talk to Power Plus. They're like, look, we'll sell you a generator in a time that we don't really need it. We'll. We'll probably buy it back in the time we do, and we'll keep swapping this out year after year. You're probably not going to lose much on the generator. Like, all right, so that takes about, let's say, 250 an hour to operate. I'm like, all right, that's going to get extremely expensive, but for a couple years. My kids love the wind tunnel. And we'll go spend. You know, we'll spend probably it's 500 an hour to go to a wind tunnel, and we'll go once a month. So I'm like, you know what? We're going to be operating anyway. It's going to be a little more expensive. And we're going to do all kinds of stuff for the channel 100 on YouTube. We got a catapult that. I already bought that. Now I don't know what to do with where we're going to catapult ourselves on there. We're planning on jumping motorcycles into it. We like, I got a crane. We're gonna drop into it. I'm like, this is gonna be YouTube gold. This is gonna be so worth it. So it got there and then they said it was set, like, didn't make noise. But what we didn't realize is pastrans. Everyone thinks it's out in the middle of nowhere. It's actually only 16 miles from the beltway of D.C. and yeah. Oh, wow.

[B]

That's not in the middle of nowhere at all.

[A]

Not at all. So it's kind of in a hole too, which is good for sound in general, but. But the wind actually makes 85 decibels and it only makes it up. But the place that we have, the only place we can have is down. So it's still making more decibels than we're legally allowed to have. And we've already, we've tested our neighbors. There's been a lot that moved out. And the people that move in are either military or they're. They'd like to shoot or hunt or, you know, ride their bike. So I'm like, okay, that's going to be tough. And then I realized that the power source that they gave me or the first page that I read was only one of the four generators. Oh. So I need four megawatts and then all the electrical. So then I more than I. So Now I need 4/2 million dollar generators which I don't have.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Resources for, you know, action sports is great, but like not that great. And then instead of 250 an hour, it's a thousand dollars an hour, which

[B]

is still four of those are running.

[A]

So. So we can't afford to operate it. And the area that we're in, you can't like. I can't charge money for anyone to come to Pastrana Land. It can't be operated as a business based on where it is. So we have people over and we do stuff and I love doing stuff there. We shoot YouTube content, but I can't charge anyone to use it. So now I've got a million dollar director set and I'm trying to figure out where to put it. So if you know, any land I feel like with access to four plus

[B]

megawatts, you know where this thing belongs. Hollywood. Just use it for the purpose that Tom was using it for. Put it somewhere.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There's got to be a production in my backyard. Yeah, but what you've just described, I think too much. Pretty much.

[A]

It takes me out of that. I think so you got any, I think billionaire friends that, like, just want to have a wind tunnel in Maryland?

[B]

I do know a couple billionaires. I don't know if they're into wind tunnels.

[A]

Yeah, usually they're not. Usually people that make money aren't into doing this stuff.

[B]

They're into collecting more into their bucket of money than saying, I'll put a couple million dollars out for your personal entertainment.

[A]

So. Well, but, I mean, how cool to be for them. And the coolest part about this. So our tree level is, like, about 65, 70ft. We're expecting to be able to fly higher than tree level. How funny would it be? You're driving down the road and over the trees. They're just like. These kids just, like, flying around. That's gonna be. It's. I'm determined, so we have to make this work. About 20 miles from my house, there is a. So now the problem is with all this AI stuff, everywhere that has enough power, they're just putting up these huge

[B]

data banks, computer data banks.

[A]

So. And Maryland is not. We're getting power already from Pennsylvania. So it's not. We might have to move states, thinking maybe, I don't know, Tennessee, Arkansas.

[B]

Montana's wide open.

[A]

Montana. But do you guys even have enough power in the state to run that?

[B]

Yeah, we have everything. I mean, look, we have these lights on. We have the Internet here.

[A]

We have the.

[B]

We have running water.

[A]

No way.

[B]

Clearly, we have. I mean, I don't know if this is enough to power that. I love wind tunnels, too. That's why I asked about it. God, I have hundreds of hours in the tunnel. That was another thing that was great about being at one of those military units. And we'd go out to Arizona, and they're like, all right, there's four of us. We need 60 hours.

[A]

But also military contracts. I mean, we're. I mean, Maryland's right in the heart of so much stuff. And. Yeah, so I was talking to. I don't know if you know, Ray Kubiak. He runs.

[B]

I know who he is. I don't know.

[A]

So it's like. We call him Wind tunnel Jesus. For lack of a better. No.

[B]

Oh, actually, I take that back. I know exactly you're talking about. Now, doesn't he run the tunnel down in vb?

[A]

He does.

[B]

I know exactly. I've watched him do things in the tunnel in Arizona when he was the head instructor there.

[A]

Used to. And they was. Yes, very good. Like, okay, he's still. For. No offense to him, but for as old as he is, he's like this Yoda in the tunnel. He's amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he's the one that. Where he's helping us with trying to figure out where to do this and how to run it. But. So Ray started running races, and now the good guys run races that have all these. Yeah. So they do it in. In Dubai.

[B]

And Michael, this is a good video. Pull up, Pull up the wind tunnel.

[A]

So they have all the streamers, and these guys race, head down all the way through. But he goes, look, yours is open wind. So he goes, if you set up two poles and even guys that aren't that good, because you can get up to. I mean, because you're. You got 40ft, so you can booking. Get booking. Right. So even people that aren't that good, he goes, have NASCAR races around, and he goes, if you come in and someone can't stop, they just check someone at like 40 miles an hour. They're going to go shooting off, and there's airbags around it. I'm like, this is going to be amazing. It's going to be the coolest thing ever. So I'm still determined that somehow we're going to find a place close to Maryland or. Or I'm going to move. I mean, I don't want to leap Pastrana land, but, like, we got to

[B]

make this wind tunnel work, because I'm in on this. I'm going to help out in ways that I don't even know are possible yet.

[A]

All right. I happen so for my kids. Yes, yes. Here we go.

[B]

So this is first off, and so most of my time is in the Arizona tunnel. What would you say the Arizona tunnel is? One fifth that size?

[A]

Exactly. One fifth. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, this is unbelievable that these exist now.

[A]

Can you imagine this size with nothing around the outside? We're going to take motorcycles over top. We're going to catapult into it. We're going to drop from cranes above it. You can have races. It's going to be. And the coolest part for me, everything that I do now is like, okay, I love my life. I love every second of racing. I love every. But as my kids are growing up, as you know, with kids that are a little bit older, like, I'm realizing that I'm. Wait, I'm missing so much time when I go home. So my daughter was like, hey, check this out. It was the world's biggest trampoline, and we'd already spent on this. We called a super tramp. Like, so much time. Most of the time I spend with my kids, because they don't really like the motories as much. They do it. Yeah. But more to humor me than to actually, like, love it. So trampolines and they, you know, double flips and spins and that's. And they're going into cheer and all that other stuff, which I didn't think I'd be kind of grooming them for being cheerleaders, but it is what it is. So now I'm a cheer dad. But the trampoline has been great. So we got the world's biggest trampoline, because I saw it on YouTube and everyone's like, that's.

[B]

How big is that?

[A]

So they set the world record height. I did a backflip underneath of a guy going over top. He went 48ft above the top of it. So. Oh, five stories, basically above. And it's 12ft off the ground. He was above me when I took off, and he was still above me when I landed.

[B]

When you say you did it back on a dirt. I just wanted to clarify. I assumed that there was a mechanical device of some kind.

[A]

If I'm doing anything, I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, I skipped the basics a lot of times, but. So that trampoline has now been the source of, I'd say, 50% of the quality time I spent with my kids. And I get a lot of people that come over like, I just never seen a grown man bouncing a trampoline. I'm like, dude, this is for. It's a good workout for me. And I just chose the double bounce machine. So I just. I mean, the kids are my youngest. I think she could do the world record for. I mean, not that we would, but I'm just like. She's like her air awareness and just giggling the whole time. So for me, I'm like, okay. Lindsay, my wife, like, yes, this is. This is spoiling your kids. But this is as much for me with them to have those moments on that trampoline with my children giggling where totally. It's worth it. So if we could do this one time. Yeah, there's no future in it. I mean, maybe there's some competition or some stuff, but if I can make some of the money back.ish. on YouTube and have a lot of fun with my friends, and I get to spend time with my kids doing something they're passionate about. I'm finding a way to run out of Maryland.

[B]

That's what you got to do, man. You just gotta. You gotta decide that you're gonna do it and then reverse engineer Your way into it. Plus, I still feel like movie companies will hit you up from time to time because that is cheaper. Like, Tom Cruise is unique in the fact that he does all of his own stuff. Like when he was jumping out over Dubai out of that C17 for what I'm like, he did that. I think they did that at sunset like, 13 times, dude.

[A]

He did like 10 jumps into the. What we did in the Grand Canyon. But he took a dirt bike off of a cliff.

[B]

Yeah. All our Red Bull buddies were there too, watching that. Okay.

[A]

Like, this is gnarly. You want to do it once? No, I want to do it 10 times.

[B]

And he can do that stuff, but he's going to bump up against the same thing the other actors that won't. There's a. There's a world where this somehow.

[A]

No. Cirque du Soleil offered to rent it. You know, like I said, we got some military contacts. It could work. We only have to operate it, like, 40 hours a week to, like, break. Sorry. For. Yeah. Basically a work week.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, you got to put your own. Like, it's got to be like. Like, you have the black rifle store.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're here. Yeah. Like, it has to be able to. You have to have a.

[B]

It's got to be its own vertical

[A]

competent crew to run it. But I'm convinced that we could still have some fun.

[B]

I'm in on this. We're going to make this happen somehow. And it might just be enthusiasm. That might be all I bring to the table.

[A]

If you. Enthusiasm and then maybe just talk about every now and then. You have any, you know, billionaires on just. Hey, you guys want to fly?

[B]

Because I don't have that. I'm short a few million dollars.

[A]

Whatever.

[B]

Millions you're short. That's exactly the number I'm short, too. But I have enthusiasm about this and a passion for skydive. I love the tunnels. All of my kids have been in them. It's. It's such an easy way to expose people who have either a fear of heights or they just. Just trepidatious about getting in. You know, common DZ aircraft, which are way different than the ones they're used to getting into.

[A]

But this one has no roof. Like, you'll literally. I. So I mean, the good people on this are flying 60ft above the top of this thing. Like, can you imagine you're above the trees because that's 20ft above the ground. You're. You know, that's gonna be amazing.

[B]

How many blades underneath Four. Okay. Okay. Yeah. We'll make this happen. Out of all this stuff that you have done, what are you the most proud of? Like, what rises to the top? Because your list is pretty distinguished of things you've accomplished in your life, bar none.

[A]

The thing I'm most proud of is that I am 42 years old, making a living on kids, toys, having a chance most of my life to travel the world with my best friends and my wife, my family, and to right now be able to continue doing what I love, my passion with the people I care about in this life the most. Does that mean I travel more than I'd like to do? Yes. Does that mean that every day is. Is greater, that there aren't injuries? No. But the most. Depressed. Not depressed. I'm a pretty happy person in general. Like, you have an option every day to. No matter how bad it is, to say, this is where we are. And, like, you either smile or you don't. And it could be great, and you could be unhappy, it could be horrible, and you could be happy. Like Latrell said, any day, with the right people, if you're in hell, it's still where you want to be. So my whole life as a child, and I was. When I was young, I was 16 years old, I win Daytona, I get to meet Evil Knievel, almost win the Supergirls Championship, win the outdoor National Championship. Youngest person to ever win the outdoor National Championship, get selected by Team USA and basically the Olympics of motocross to represent the US and motocross the nations alongside Ricky Carmichael is pretty much the Goat. And Ryan Hughes, who was doing some European races, and we won the Motocross of Nations, had 150,000 French people booing us, and we had to get security out of there. It's the happiest day of my freaking life. And I'm on the plane on the way home, and I was the loneliest I've ever been, really. I had accomplished everything that I sought to accomplish, really, in life in that one year. I won X Games. I won, you know, outdoor National Championship and won the nations. Made more money than I had ever imagined I'd ever make on a motorcycle, you know, at 16 years old. Just bought my house.

[B]

At 16.

[A]

Yeah. No, like, I mean, my dad was awesome. He put in parents in general. Yeah. Mom was amazing with. With everything she. My mom was always the one that believed in me. My dad was always the one that was like, hey, as long as you love it and you're working hard and you're getting Good grades, like I'll keep supporting you, I'll do whatever. But. So we signed a contract. I was in a wheelchair at the time. I shattered my pelvis, almost bled out. And we signed a contract with Suzuki and they were going to give me a contract that, you know, so it was, you know, like $60,000, which for us my dad never made. 60,000.

[B]

That's real money.

[A]

He was stoked. And I was like, I was stoked. I'm 15 years old. Sign this contract. And they had a win bonus and the win bonus went through 10th. That goes, you're gonna pay him for getting 10th? He's like, no, he didn't say that

[B]

to them publicly, right? Oh God, no.

[A]

He goes, don't, no, he goes, take this whole thing. He goes, put it to first. And they, he's like, oh, okay. Like there's been no 16 year old that's won the chase. Sure, yeah, they took. And David Bailey had done that before and Doug Henry had done it and we had heard about it. Well, a kid in a wheelchair at 15, I'm not, I was not paralyzed by shattered pelvis and everything. So nothing was.

[B]

Yeah, just as close to being paralyzed

[A]

as you can get without being there. So sorry not to take sound over dramatic there, but anyway, I almost bled out. Like it was just pretty bad. So, so signed this contract and went ahead and ended up winning, like I said, the outdoor national championship. So you know, at the time it was a quarter million dollar bonus or something and my dad went right back and gave half of that. My parents, I always say dad because he's was the most vocal about it, but you know, obviously joint effort, joint effort. And he gave a lot back to all the people that helped me get there. And it as was interesting because as I was hurt over the years, those people that helped get there and that crew was always there for me. I think that's a lot because my parents were really good about saying, hey, this person, this person's going to pay you more, but this person's there for you. This person cares. And they really built up this family around me. And I think that's a big reason why today I'm still in these sports. So I'm going to make a living doing what I love to do. It's not because of what I do, it's because of the opportunities provided by the people around you that are helping you accomplish those goals. But yeah, so that was really, really cool for everything had happened. We're making money. I bought a house at 6. I didn't know what to do because my parents moved in with me because we had like three mortgages on that house.

[B]

That's the worst way to buy a house than your parents pile in, right?

[A]

But I was like, okay, so I had the master bedroom. Like, I had a girl that came over. I was like, yeah, brought a girl on a date and she's like, why do you have the master bedroom? I was like, oh, it's my house house. She left. She didn't believe me. But I was like, you know, I didn't know where, I didn't know what the next step. But anyway, when I was 18, they moved out. So it was really cool.

[B]

I can't fathom having that money at 16. If I had made a quarter million, I would have spent at least 375.

[A]

Took me a second on the math. Yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

100. Like, I definitely need to invest in a pyramid scheme and several new cars. And yeah, I would have somehow spent one and a half times.

[A]

So I spent all the money, but it was all on stuff that was. Ended up helping start Nitro Circus. Yeah, I bought, you know, so the first thing that went up was a shed so we could have place for motorcycles. I bought an old tractor so we could build the tracks. Yeah. Water truck. And then foam pit. And after the foam pit, which we started learning tricks and X Games was coming on and we got all the video stuff and then, then the house went in.

[B]

So you reinvested in yourself.

[A]

Reinvent and always. So Instead of buying one car for show, I would buy 20 field cars and we go have a blast and we destroy all the cars. We'd learn how to, how to use them, how to fix them, how to, you know, and we get that driving experience that eventually turned into me having a rally career. So my dad was. I keep saying, dad, my parents were really good on saying, hey, this isn't going to last. They always said, but, dude, any day that you can do what you love, ride that train to the wheels falls off, and never, never take a contract for the money. Because like I said, my uncle, one of the best athletes ever came out of Maryland. You know, still construction in the summers and still teaching, you know, health and stuff at community college. He's like, the chance of you making a living in a hobby is so slim. But enjoy that hobby. Enjoy every second of it. If you have something, if you don't wake up with a passion, because you could kill yourself any day, you can knock yourself out, you could change your life. You could get paralyzed like you're lucky you're not there now. So just make sure that you love it and we'll support you no matter what. And I think that was the best thing that my parents did. And maybe I would have won more championships if my parents were more focused on winning. But I have had the happiest life when I was, I said 16 years old, won everything and I was like, mom, Dad, I, I don't know that I want to be a racer. And I turned down a really expensive, a really lucrative, lucrative thank you for the adjective very great contract to spend almost all of it to race rally car. And then when I was, we got fortunate enough to meet up with Ken Block and really build rally that gets in the X Games all of a sudden making really good money in rally and said well, one four straight US Championships, what's next? And I put almost all of that money into trying to turn left in nascar. I didn't make it in NASCAR and had to go back to touring the world with, with my friends and kind of built that empire of like how can we have the most fun? What do we want to do? We want to travel the world, we want to go to Australia, want to go to New Zealand. We want to put on shows and, and just push each other with our friend group. And because of what my parents had set up for me and given me that platform to be able to kind of understand the business side of it, but also to understand that this is. And it doesn't work like that for I got very lucky. But I was always felt like I was working with house money and instead of saying I gotta and always keep what you can in the bank and you know, did the best we could. But if I believed I could do something like if you're going to do it and you're going to be successful, I found out that you have to be all in like. And that's why, I mean I'm not saying I would have been successful in NASCAR, but I knew at that moment, you know, I'm mid-20s, I'm battling 16, 17, 18 year olds. And that time it was Kyle Larson and Chase Elliott and Bubba Wallace were kind of the guys that were, were winning the K N series that are all right now winning the cup series. But I'm like they're already equal to better than me at NASCAR. They're 16, 17, 18 and they are doing 120 to 150 races a year. They're racing three, four times a week. They're driving a car every day. I Just had my first child. Am I willing to do more than that? Because if I'm not willing to do more, I'm not going to ever be as good as these. These kids. And at the end of the day, my answer to myself was, stop spending money because you're not willing to do what it takes to be the best and not say you would get the best. But yeah, that's the bear.

[B]

I get it, man. Did you ever think you were going to be 42 when you started down this path? And in a wheelchair at 15? Was 42 even a concept?

[A]

Never crossed? Did it ever cross your mind?

[B]

No. And I'm almost 50 now. I'm like. I mean, I remember being 16 and thinking, people like these humans just die at 30, right? I mean, nobody has ever lived longer than. Than 35, probably.

[A]

I remember my dad was racing Lin's national championships at the 40 plus class. I was like, that is so old. I can't imagine riding a dirt bike at 40, 42. I'm like, I can't imagine not riding a dirt bike.

[B]

What do you have last, like, on your bucket list? Like, do you have anything out there? Some over the horizon? Like, I might actually want to really do this? Ideas?

[A]

There's. There's always bucket list ideas, for sure. I mean, I would love to win the Baja 1000 in the top class. I would. There's a lot of things. But when I look at what I'm willing to do and I laugh so much. YouTubers, I not laughed at them, but I was always kind of poked at them. And just because I didn't know about it, not, no offense, like, podcast, YouTube, all this. All this stuff. I'm like, it didn't just. I don't know, I wanted to be the best. I wanted to win. I wanted to do that kind of stuff. And then I started looking at Cletus McFarland and I'm like, he's having more fun than any racer I know. He's racing everything he wants to race. He's got all of his best friends around him, and he's making a good living spending time with his friends and family. I'm like, all of my pre existing, like, not animosity, but jealousy or whatever, I'm like, that's what I won. So if you were to say, what do you want to accomplish? When I was 16, I realized that being the best wasn't what truly made me happy. It gave me a platform to then travel the world and start Nitro Circus and do that with my best friends. I still want to compete. I still need that in my life. I still race rally because I need to go out there and hate my competition and do whatever it takes and bend every rule and find every gray area. Just that psychopath of like how.

[B]

I deeply understand what you're saying, trust me.

[A]

And if I'm driving too fast on the road at home, I realize that I need to go race cars where it's not my car, where I can like, I'm sorry, I try my best and then I, I can step out of it. Yeah. And it's got a roll cage and it's closed course and all that stuff. So right now what I would really love to do is figure out a way to build this YouTube channel where I can be home or I can be with my friends. And at the end of the day, my wife is a two time world champion, three time X Games gold medalist. And I'm not saying she's lost herself at all. She's still, she skates all the time. She's. But she's the happiest when she's helping the next generation give them an opportunity to come skate. And we have a half pipe now. And the happiness on her face when she's helping someone make it to that Olympic level or to that, or even just get on a skateboard and learn how to ride the pump track. I, that spark is, I love that spark when I'm, when veterans come over, when it's selfishly like, everyone's like, oh, that's so nice. You're like, no, it's, this is a selfish thing. Like these guys and girls that put everything on the line for our freedoms to be able to do, we love and they get back in their hurt or they're done and they lose that friend group and it's, it's a lot. I mean, you know, more than I do. But action sports, so many of my friends that were making six figures as teenagers are now 30 years old, broke into all hell, not really able to do like, like don't have a lot of base in anything outside of the sports. And like, shoot, I'm too beat up to even, you know, stand up for too long or sit down and I can't do a desk job like it. I would love to build this YouTube channel where we could help the next generation learn from our mistakes, help world records happen, help guide the, the future of action sports and bring people along for the ride to kind of be a part of this, what I call the American dream. And I'm very fortunate to have black rifle that's. That's supporting us to kind of build this.

[B]

It's an interesting concept. I think a lot of people would go the other way. They would want to build the secret sauce and build their channel, but it wasn't be to help other people. It would be to help themselves.

[A]

Well, it is selfish because you're only as good as the people around you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the more people you kind of bring in, like, I'm in a very fortunate position. I don't need to make another dime. But to do the things I love to do, they're. They're expensive. So if I can help build the people around me up and build these personalities, that gives everyone a platform. And even, like, Nate Wessel, this guy, and he's gone over, like, they did bikes over Baghdad and stuff. And he's spent so much time just like, suicide prevention and going over and talking all these bases and going to some gnarly places. But selfishly, it gives him a chance to go over there and. And to do something that. That he feels like it matters. And he builds. Whenever someone, like, Even happy Gilmore 2, when they were doing a go kart jump or a golf cart jump, they call Nate. When Hot wheels or Red Bull or someone, they. When someone says something is impossible. Nate Wessel is the guy you call, and Nate lives at the house. So when he's not doing that stuff, he's building. I mean, he's gonna get me in trouble with Lindsay a few times because we built, like, a lap pool, and before we even swam in it, he had a loop for a boat, and he put a jet boat in the lap pool, which totally makes sense to me.

[B]

That's actually very reasonable. Why you built the pool to help facilitate the loop, not the other way around. It was the loop first, and then the pool was just the add on because you needed it for the loop. That's the way I think about it. Pool was never for laps. It was just the landing zone for the loop.

[A]

So it was funny because my wife says, this is why we can't have nice things. And Nate goes. He looks at her, and he smiles. He goes, this is why you have nice things.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And I was like, that's pretty good. It's so right. You want to pull up the loop for him real quick?

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Like this. I was lucky that it kind of. Kind of worked.

[B]

I still can't believe that tunnel. My God.

[A]

Right? But imagine that. So it's only like a half a foot smaller in diameter than that which

[B]

you'd never notice in person.

[A]

No. But plus, you don't have walls, so. Yeah, you can kind of, you know, you can get further.

[B]

I'm glad it has airbags.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Here we go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why have.

[A]

This was Wessel. This took him less than a week to build. And of course, he built. We would have built the loop smaller, but he wanted to be able to jump a limo through the loop, which we didn't get a chance to do there, but he put bicycles through it, so. Yeah. Anyway, you can go to the end of this, but. Yeah, it's pretty. Totally makes sense, right? So then we lit the loop on fire and shatter one fire. It's just the basics.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Anyway, that was. That was it.

[B]

So I like it. Well, we're gonna go film a little bit of content. What do you want to leave everybody with?

[A]

You know, that is an extremely deep question, but I feel like if I could say anything to anyone that's out there, the people that love what they do and they surround themselves with people. Like, you look around you and you feel like if someone is doing something that you want to do, be around that person. Surround yourself with the best people you possibly can. Go for it. If you're gonna go for it, freaking go for it. Because every single day that you spend doing something you love, it's not a wasted day.

[B]

I agree, man.

[A]

So I feel like if you're getting into sport because you want to be make money or you want to be famous, fame is the redheaded stepchild of success, and you're not going to outwork someone that wants to be there, that dreams of being there. So no matter how much money someone pays you, it physically will not be enough to override the pain and the sacrifices and the. Just the passion. So if I were to leave anyone with anything, let's freaking chase your dreams, man. Love what you do, and let's see where it ends up.

[B]

Sometimes you got to push the chips in, man.

[A]

Not sometimes I feel like he. I mean, you can't be stupid with it, but sometimes you can. Yeah, I've done that.

[B]

I mean, that's where I have to. But again, we're lucky to probably both be sitting here, but that's where the juice is, man. I look back at the most memorable things in my life, and they. And they were not without risk that I had to sit there and think about and contemplate and what's this worth? What am I potentially risking all of those things? But on the other side of that was the stuff that sticks with me, you know, after 48 years and it's

[A]

rarely worth it to anyone else.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No, I don't mean like you. You sacrifice that.

[B]

But no, they just don't understand the calculus because they're not in there in your head with the conversation. They don't know what it means to you. You can't ever look at somebody and say, I know what this means to you, because you're not inside of their body. Yeah, I know what you're saying for sure. Well, cool, man. Let's go.

[A]

Let's go. Right. Doing helicopter.

[B]

Yeah. Do you want to fly it?

[A]

I mean, I'm not gonna say no.

[B]

I'll start it.

[A]

Oh, thanks.

[B]

And get to a safe distance.

[A]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.

[B]

It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out.

[A]

You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host.

[B]

You seek it out and download it.

[A]

You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom.

[B]

Podcasts are a pretty close companion.

[A]

And this is a podcast ad.

[B]

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host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their

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favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to

[B]

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