SSS and Genghis Cohen - Dark Desert Defense, Machine Guns, Helicopters, and Strippers

Summary

Podcast Title: Cleared Hot
Host: Andy Stumpf
Episode: SSS and Genghis Cohen - Dark Desert Defense, Machine Guns, Helicopters, and Strippers
Release Date: December 9, 2024

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Introduction

In this riveting episode of Cleared Hot, host Andy Stumpf welcomes back two seasoned veterans and entrepreneurs, Steve Sanders and Genghis Cohen. Together, they delve into their diverse backgrounds, ranging from military service to running high-stakes businesses like Dark Desert Defense, Machine Guns Las Vegas, and even managing strip clubs.

Entrepreneurial Journeys

Steve Sanders, a retired Navy SEAL with an impressive military record, including a Silver Star and five Bronze Stars, shares his transition from military service to entrepreneurship. Alongside Genghis Cohen, a New Zealand veteran turned Las Vegas entrepreneur, Steve has navigated various industries, showcasing his adaptability and technical proficiency.

Notable Quote:

"We've always wanted to create a platform that can take ventures. Helping veterans transition and utilize their unique skill sets is a cornerstone of Dark Desert Defense."
— Steve Sanders [12:45]

From Strip Clubs to Security

The duo recount their experiences in the Las Vegas strip club industry, highlighting the complexities of managing large numbers of employees and navigating the intricacies of high-roller clientele. Genghis Cohen offers a candid look into the operations, including handling security breaches and the challenges of maintaining a reputable establishment.

Notable Quote:

"The most successful girls that work for me were usually psychology people with master's degrees. They knew how to manage themselves and others, much like a military unit."
— Genghis Cohen [20:12]

Transition to Firearms Training

Recognizing the demand for quality firearms training, Steve and Genghis founded Dark Desert Defense, focusing on providing comprehensive and serious training courses. They emphasize the importance of foundational skills over flashy techniques, ensuring that students are competent and confident in real-life scenarios.

Notable Quote:

"If you're not hitting the target, slow down. Go back to your fundamentals."
— Steve Sanders [138:46]

Training Philosophy and Methods

Dark Desert Defense employs a structured approach to training, starting with one-on-one sessions before moving to group classes. Their methodology includes pairing students as shooting buddies, fostering a collaborative learning environment, and incorporating competitive drills to enhance focus and performance.

Notable Quote:

"We pair people up and have them critic each other's shooting. It builds camaraderie and sharpens their skills under pressure."
— Genghis Cohen [116:41]

Expanding Horizons: Helicopters and Beyond

Both entrepreneurs share their passion for aviation, particularly helicopters. They discuss their experiences with flying, training, and the technical aspects of aviation. Genghis highlights his involvement in providing free search and rescue services through a veterans nonprofit, demonstrating their commitment to giving back to the community.

Notable Quote:

"Flying helicopters opens up a new perspective on the world. It's about accessing places others can't and making a tangible difference through search and rescue."
— Genghis Cohen [86:18]

Anecdotes and Personal Stories

The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, from dealing with celebrities like Quentin Tarantino in strip clubs to intense training sessions and adventurous helicopter jumps. These stories illustrate the unpredictable and dynamic nature of their careers, underscoring their resilience and problem-solving abilities.

Notable Quote:

"One time, a famous rapper came to our club and demanded we play hip-hop all night. We refused, which led to a gunfight at another venue. It was chaos."
— Genghis Cohen [32:14]

Future Plans and Expansion

Looking ahead, Steve and Genghis discuss their plans to expand Dark Desert Defense beyond Las Vegas to locations like Montana. They aim to establish summer courses in scenic, gun-friendly areas, leveraging the natural beauty and demand for quality training.

Notable Quote:

"We're gearing up to run our summer courses in Kalispell, Montana. It's a destination with four distinct seasons, perfect for intensive training."
— Genghis Cohen [145:50]

Mentorship and Community Building

A significant focus of their discussion is on mentoring new instructors and fostering a supportive community for veterans and entrepreneurs. They aspire to create a network where skilled individuals can start their own training businesses under the Dark Desert Defense banner, ensuring sustainability and growth.

Notable Quote:

"Our goal is to mentor ex-military personnel, providing them with the tools and curriculum to start their own training centers. It's about building a legacy."
— Steve Sanders [132:44]

Closing Remarks

As the episode winds down, Steve and Genghis share their contact information and encourage listeners to visit DarkDesertDefense.com for more details on courses and training programs. They express their enthusiasm for upcoming ventures and their commitment to excellence in firearms training.

Notable Quote:

"Our website is the best place to book your courses and learn more about what we offer. We're excited to bring our training to new locations soon."
— Genghis Cohen [145:31]

Conclusion

This episode of Cleared Hot offers an in-depth look into the multifaceted careers of Steve Sanders and Genghis Cohen. Their journey from military service to successful entrepreneurship in diverse industries provides valuable insights into leadership, resilience, and the pursuit of excellence. Whether you're interested in firearms training, aviation, or entrepreneurial mentorship, this episode delivers engaging content filled with real-world experiences and actionable advice.

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For More Information and to Book Courses:
Visit DarkDesertDefense.com

Transcript

[Genghis Cohen]

Hey, music fans, there are some great.

[Steve Sanders]

Concerts headed this way.

[Host]

Don't miss out on all the shows.

[Steve Sanders]

In your favorite venues, like Deftones at.

[Host]

Madison Square Garden, Eagles at the Sphere, and Foster. The people at the Ryman Auditorium. Tickets are going fast, so don't wait. Head to livenation.com to get your tickets. Now that's livenation.com what up, everybody? Welcome back. Today's episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. Shocker. I know, right? I'm at their website right now. They're having Black Friday stuff and I'm going to skip over that because Black Friday is over at this point and it's all about Christmas. It's a few weeks away, I think literally 3. Start thinking about what you want to get the people you care about. Coffee is a great gift. You know, if they drink coffee, it's not going to go bad. You know, they're not going to not use it. I mean, a bag of coffee, fuck, depending on who you are, could last a day or could last a week. Regardless. I think you get the point. Black Rifle Coffee has, in my opinion. I mean, I'm wearing one of their shirts right now. This is one of my old school favorite ones. They have some of the best T shirts, some of the best branding out there. So you can dive in on the apparel tab. The gear tab is not only stuff that you could drink, but it right here would be a patch or a sticker, thermoses. I mean, yetis, whatever you potentially want. Coffee is. This hopefully surprises nobody where you would go to get the coffee beans. Okay, I'm gonna. I don't even know if I'm allowed to say this yet, but I'm going to. The cleared hot coffee is coming back in 2025. And don't nobody tell Evan that I told you that because, well, he said it's going to happen. So I guess you could tell him if you want to. But if you've never had the clear hot blend, it's ridiculously good. I don't know what medium I'm going to use to actually sell it on, but it is going to be back and it's going to be awesome. But until you can actually buy that, if you have friends, family members, loved ones that like coffee, go to blackrifflecoffee.com it's the number one way that you can help support the podcast other than telling somebody about it or leaving me a review on one of the platforms. Support the brands that make this podcast possible. That's it. My guests today, two of Them Triple S, also known as Steve Sanders and Genghis Cohen. Not Genghis Khan, even though that's what I want to call him. C O H e N, not K H a n. It's really close for me, though, so I'm going to call him Genghis Khan. Triple S has been on the podcast before, twice. And one of my oldest friends is a retired Navy seal. Spent a substantial amount of time at an east coast command that would be considered a Tier one JSOC unit. Highly decorated. Silver star, five bronze stars. Absolutely. I say that because he's probably the most technically proficient SEAL that I ever served with. He's so fucking disgustingly good at the job, it makes it hard to be around sometimes. He came up here with his business partner in Dark Desert defense, Genghis. Genghis is the owner of Machine Guns Las Vegas, or Machine Gun Las Vegas. And they partnered in this training course. Before I get into that, Genghis is a veteran himself. You will notice instantly on the podcast that he has an accent which is not from Alabama, it is from New Zealand. He's a Kiwi. Served in the. In the military in New Zealand. Got into rotary wing flying. I think Genghis and I are gonna have some adventures as life continues. Came to the United States. Holy shit. This guy is an entrepreneur. Multiple businesses, multiple different genres as well. I mean, we're talking managing nightclubs and strip clubs to going into the gold and diamond business in Africa. I mean, not exactly the same thing for sure. Then coming back over, getting into the gun range business, it's wild. We did talk about what Dark Desert Defense offers, and they offer firearms training. Stephen Genghis did a good job describing that. But what I'll say to you is this. This is not. It's not cheap, and it shouldn't be cheap. And it's not a large group class, because the training that they're trying to offer. Not that they're trying to. The training that they are offering, it takes time. And you need to invest in your student, and the student needs to invest in the instructor as well, because these things are designed to take life and they should be taken seriously. And also, people who are looking for instruction, they need to be careful who they take that instruction from, because not all trainers and coaches are created equal. They talked about on the show potentially running some courses up here in Montana. I will harass them to make sure that those courses are online.

[Steve Sanders]

And.

[Host]

And so hopefully, if you are interested in visiting Montana and sharpening your game from a weapons perspective, you could come up to Montana and do so. Episode number 364 with triple S and Genghis. Enjoy.

[Steve Sanders]

Okay, got the red smoke.

[Genghis Cohen]

Sun runs north or south?

[Steve Sanders]

West of the smoke.

[Genghis Cohen]

West of the smoke. Okay, copy.

[Steve Sanders]

West of the smoke.

[Host]

I'm looking at danger close now.

[Genghis Cohen]

Come on with it, baby. Give it to me. I need it.

[Host]

What do you want to talk about?

[Steve Sanders]

Dark desert.

[Host]

Dark desert defense. Do you want to talk about how, like, poor of a name that is? Where do you want to begin? Dude, as far as I know what it's. I know, like, but I like the word, the letter D. Let's put three of those in our name and then figure it out. Backwards, dickless. Dark desert. Dark desert what?

[Genghis Cohen]

Dark desert Gongs and truthness. Like, I was telling him we were having some stupid conversation about what's better than a girl with a set of double Ds? And we're like a girl with a set of triple days. And that's how we sort of.

[Host]

I feel like it's some scale in that, though. It becomes problematic.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

The name.

[Host]

No double Ds versus, like, just pure size. The management issue of.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, no, I mean, Michael.

[Host]

Michael's already lost because he's just like. I've never seen any of those, but. No, I mean, like, one's too big. I'm sure ladies feel the same thing.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

Like, I don't think they want something that's the length of this microphone arm.

[Genghis Cohen]

Only for, like, a badge on the Girl Scout outfit.

[Host]

No, Brandon's important. You gotta have. So not Riley, but Tyler started two businesses and the only thing I did was help him with the names. So he has peeping Tom windows. He does window cleaning. And then Epstein's Christmas lights. Because they're not going to hang themselves.

[Steve Sanders]

No way. Yeah.

[Host]

And he slays.

[Genghis Cohen]

So it's so funny because we were.

[Steve Sanders]

Not gonna hang themselves.

[Genghis Cohen]

We were having this whole conversation that's hilarious. Like. Like this, like, branding that's to the point of being offensive. It's like this T shirt. Like, when I was walking through the thing. Yeah, I was walking through your.

[Host]

You gotta talk into the mic.

[Genghis Cohen]

Sorry. Like, I didn't.

[Host]

Like, not that crazy.

[Genghis Cohen]

We're always recording, but, like. Like, you know, I could have sold it five times over. Just walk into the bathroom when we're at breakfast.

[Host]

You will instantly know. Like, when he knocks on somebody's door and says, hey, I'm Tyler with peeping Tom windows. They're either going to light up like a Christmas tree.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Or they're going to tell you to get the off the property. So you're very clear. Is this your target demographic?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

And yeah, he made like 30, $40,000 over the summer doing windows.

[Steve Sanders]

Geez.

[Genghis Cohen]

Wow.

[Host]

Yeah. He had Michael working for him.

[Steve Sanders]

Wow, that's freaking awesome, man.

[Host]

Which is embarrassing given that Michael's older, more distinguished in his career.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. So.

[Host]

Yeah. How'd you land on dark desert defense?

[Steve Sanders]

Good question. I think we, we. I think we spent what, two or three months, first of all coming up with a name and then secondly, the. I think the most difficult part was coming up with the logo. But because we do not like to have any sort of like military, you know, we're not out on the range of cargo pants on and Five Eleven to out. You know, we're not.

[Host]

Why?

[Steve Sanders]

Just because it's.

[Host]

What's wrong with those people. Why are you being so judgy?

[Steve Sanders]

I'm not, I'm not. I'm just. Well, first I want to get. I want to give a shout out to 511 though. No, but like, because a lot of people, I think in our experience, they're. Once you get into the whole military thing, these people start getting intimidated by it because people are usually the. Our demographic. A lot of that go through our course. They are already intimidated by the guns themselves. So it wasn't make it feel like they're out on the range with, you know, a couple of drill instructors, you know. So our training style is very laid back and chill. But in our logo, like I think I if I'm just like Genghis, I'm sure get so many compliments just on the logo because my truck is logoed out, you know, it's all I've got, you know, multi camera app. And I was like, but everybody's like, dude, that logo is so cool. And that's why we decided like, hey, we're going to start selling merch.

[Host]

Have you ever seen pictures of the Shaggin Wagon? This is the vehicle that Steve had when I met him.

[Genghis Cohen]

Have you? No.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh yeah. You saw it. My lower dually.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh yeah, that thing.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And he called the shagging wagon.

[Host]

We used to drive that thing straight to Starbucks for iced mochas. Back in like O2, three and coffee cake.

[Steve Sanders]

Course, yeah. Crumb cake.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Always had.

[Host]

Why did we, why did we do that?

[Steve Sanders]

I don't know.

[Host]

I know I was, I was just starting to drink coffee then.

[Steve Sanders]

We always had crumb cake, whatever the you want to call it.

[Host]

It was crumb cake, coffee crumble cake.

[Steve Sanders]

And we ate it super weird too. We always ate it out of the bag, like usually everybody does. And. Yeah, but we'd always go there post workout. Post workout. We go in there and get our, you know, protein snacks, lattes.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And some coffee cake.

[Host]

Yeah, that's. This is Steve that I first met. The first time we rode together looking at this truck like what, what the is this thing?

[Steve Sanders]

Because like I'm east coast, right? East Coast.

[Genghis Cohen]

And dude, have you seen his new truck? Yeah, you've seen it with the 20, with this 26 inch? No.

[Host]

You and I both kind of go through trucks at a rapid pace, so I don't really know what you're on at this point. Might have seen it.

[Steve Sanders]

It's a, it's a 21F 450 dually on 26s, 26s wheels, icon suspension, totally deleted the thing.

[Host]

The I understood F450. All the rest. You know this about me. I'm like, what trucks are rockets? Are 26 inch tires big, the wheels are 26s. Is that good or bad?

[Steve Sanders]

So on your truck they're probably either 18 or 20s.

[Host]

The rim or the wheel?

[Steve Sanders]

The rim. Yeah, same thing.

[Genghis Cohen]

It has the right of a shopping cart.

[Steve Sanders]

No, it does not. It's on icon, bro.

[Genghis Cohen]

Dude, there's a reason your son always wants to ride with me out to the rats.

[Steve Sanders]

No, just because he doesn't want to talk to me.

[Host]

Do you think the era of the military based firearms instructor is coming to an end?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yes.

[Steve Sanders]

Wait, one more time.

[Host]

The question so how long do you think people are going to be able to trade on the G? What is a better way to describe that question? Not that they shouldn't. I believe people's experiences are to do with what they want to do. But in 2035, are people still going to give a fuck about anything that we did in 2005? Or want to see guys wearing multicam and the plate carriers? Or are you finding people who just want to be safe, current and competent with firearms?

[Steve Sanders]

That's, that's what we're finding.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

A lot of our clients come to us because they are, you know, we're just talking about this this morning, you know, especially, you know, women come in, they're like, hey, you know, my husband and boyfriend's. I live alone, I'm alone a lot. Traveling and you know, the, lately the, you know, our current events, you know, people just aren't safe and they don't feel safe and they're like, hey, you know, I want to. It's funny because like I want to get a pistol for home defense. And our first things out of our mouths are, don't get a pistol, you'll get a shotgun. But if you do want to get a pistol, if you want to go into concealed carry, then go through our pistol course and then we will make you competent enough to, number one, carry concealed, you know, safely, and then number two, use it for home defense as well. But a lot of our clientele are women, so we get a lot of women.

[Genghis Cohen]

I think the big thing is, at least what we found in training with the, like the really military guys is, you know, there's that old story of the gun store commando. You know, you go into a gun store and there's this guy who has never seen a gym in his life, but, you know, he's dressed up like you think he thinks he just came out of Baghdad or Iraq, you know.

[Host]

And I think Baghdad2006 wants his pants back.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, exactly.

[Genghis Cohen]

Exactly.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I think DRMO been just fucking head to toe.

[Steve Sanders]

Totally.

[Genghis Cohen]

So I think that just intimidates a lot of people. Right. And so, you know, one of the things I love about working with Steve in particular is, dude, we'll rock out there. And Steve's got flip flops on and shorts.

[Host]

I've experienced this.

[Genghis Cohen]

But he can shoot the shit out of anyone, you know, I mean, he, he, you know, and it. So when you. And a cowboy in a cowboy hat and. And when you.

[Host]

I don't like that part.

[Genghis Cohen]

When you, when you sort of show up like that, like, people just. It brings the whole level because they're stressed out already. I mean, it's so funny. We have the gun sitting on the table and you can just see the fear in their eyes of like, it's like.

[Steve Sanders]

It's like a pile of rattlesnakes.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Yeah. That's the best way to put it.

[Host]

Which is wild because it would sit there on the table harming nobody until it rusted to the point where it wouldn't function anymore. But it scares the ever living shit out of people.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

And to go back to the military training, I mean, the vast majority of the shit, the training that we received has no applicability whatsoever for 99.9999-9999% of people. So I see some of these courtesies where they try to. It's basic knowledge. And they're like, all right, cool, we're gonna go do room clearance. I'm like, that's gonna be spicy.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Host]

Let's go live.

[Steve Sanders]

So our Beginner. We basically have like. Our beginner course is basically level one, Level one pistol. Right. And it's very. On our website and it. It covers all the course objectives, but it's very simple. And we're not. We're not teaching room clearance. But at the end of the course, like, we just did one last weekend. You know, we take somebody that's never shot a gun before, and at the end of the second day, they're moving and shooting.

[Host]

Yeah, you're talking about probably like two dimensionally. Just laterally forward and back. Yeah, totally not.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, just basically forward. That's it. Just walking forward and shooting. And. And then they're like, wow. So we basically take somebody that has never shot a gun before, and by the end of second day, they're moving and shooting and they're blown away. And we Google through draws everything. So the amount of information they get, I mean, they're like. They're drinking out of a fire hose the entire time. And people are just. Sometimes they're overwhelmed and. Which is a good thing because we want people to, you know, stay like, focused and sharp and they'd really never. Nobody here comes to our course and ever gets comfortable. They're always. Because once we.

[Host]

That's good.

[Steve Sanders]

Once we get people going through and they're. They're start proficient, you know, you can start like, all right, this is what we're gonna do now. This is what we're doing now. We just start adding.

[Host]

All you even need to do for most people is like, let me introduce you to Mr. Shot Timer.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, we.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah, that's exactly so that you were doing good.

[Host]

Let me introduce you to Mr. And you're about to fall a. Oh, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

You know, we call it the automatic up advice.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And so we introduce people to that, like halfway through the first day, just because neither one of us want to sit there and talk that much anyway, because they're already sick of listening to us talk. So we introduce a shot timer. And that's what we did is like, all right, just. Just mind you, this isn't a speed drill. We're just using it to get you kind of like, you know, used to it. So by the. But because the second day, now we're doing time drills with them, so. But it's a. It's a lot of information. In this last class we just did, we had seven, six. Seven people in it. And yeah, we got. I'm usually surprised at how far we can get. Especially we had like a legit group of people that had never Touched a.

[Host]

Gun before, it's probably. You probably be able to get them farther than people who already have.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. The number one enemy is eager, especially with like, like guys will show up and they're like, I'm a man. I know how to shoot again, Dude.

[Host]

How often do we see that teaching in free fall together, you get somebody who had like 50 to 100 jumps, you're like, okay, I need you to actually unwind what you have been doing because you're doing it wrong. And it's. Even though they haven't been doing it wrong for that long, it has its hooks in.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yep.

[Host]

And it's hard to get that out of there.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I mean, when I was in the, when I was in the military, one of the things that the DSRs used to say to me, it's so much easier to teach a good habit than to unteach a bad one. Right. So, you know, that's what, that's why honestly, I love it when people come in and they're scared, but I've never touched a gun before. And I'm like, great, because. Because you're not going to have any bad habits. So we can, we can sort of start teaching you the good ones and we don't have to unlearn the bad ones.

[Host]

Yeah, and I like the shotgun for home defense as well.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do you guys teach them the advanced technique if they hear anything, just smoke around into the ceiling just in case.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

I call it the flush out move. Then you listen.

[Steve Sanders]

As long as you know a good drywall guy.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. You know, and you don't live on the bottom floor of a two story apartment.

[Host]

It's like grasshopting. You got to flush them out. Let's see if anybody's hiding on you.

[Steve Sanders]

Recon by fire. Recon by fire. Yeah, I'm coming up. Hey, Steve, pull that mic a little bit closer. Okay.

[Host]

Yeah, fucking take that.

[Genghis Cohen]

But yeah, you know, it's. It's like we should check.

[Host]

I tell you to lower the seat, but you're already so tiny anyway. I don't want to make you look like a midget. Micro seal.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

Put some weight on, dude. It doesn't help you with height.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah, no, nobody's ever accused me of being tall, that's for sure.

[Host]

That is true. Genghis. How'd you find your way to the the U.S. we got to tell your origin story for the listeners. Let's just assume your last name's Khan.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, okay, that's fine. I'll live with that.

[Steve Sanders]

That's his alias.

[Genghis Cohen]

So I, I really, I was, I was in the New Zealand military and they sent me.

[Host]

Born and raised in New Zealand.

[Genghis Cohen]

Born and raised in New Zealand. Yeah.

[Host]

Is. What's military service look like there? Is it kind of like a common thing? An uncommon thing?

[Genghis Cohen]

Kind of an uncommon thing. I mean, we, we can barely field a soccer team. You know, our army's so small and our defence force is small. But, but we do, we actually work a lot with us, Australian, British, you know, we're a Commonwealth. Yeah, yeah. So we're Commonwealth country. So a lot of our guys will train, you know, in different parts of the world. So I, I got on this course to come to the US and I was in the US for a little while and I did some courses here and I just really liked it and went back, spent a little bit more time in the military there and I was like, I'm just going to go check out America. And so I showed up with a backpack and started bartending and going to college. And that's sort of how I started going here and then sort of went down the road. I sort of didn't do a lot of military stuff for a while. Went down the road of, you know, I worked for casinos and hotels in Las Vegas and, you know, had strip clubs and nightclubs and restaurants and did a whole bunch of stuff that was non military related.

[Host]

I feel like you saw a wild amount of shit.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

I was going to say, even in the hotel business. What is the strip club business like? You spend two hours talking about that.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's, it's funny, I actually just, I met a guy the other day who's a professor at the University of Connecticut and he's actually working with me to write a book about strip clubs because he, he specifically works for entrepreneurs teaching them business strategy. And we were talking for about an hour and he's like, he's like, I want you to write a book with me about the lessons learned on managing people in a business from the point of view of someone owning and operating a strip club. So we're calling, the name of the book is going to be called Herding Bipolar Cats. And it's really just So I had 1600 girls working for me at the time.

[Steve Sanders]

What?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, because they roll in and they roll out.

[Host]

So how does the economics of that work? Is this, I mean, I'm assuming this is a 1099 type thing?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, 1099.

[Host]

But are you just getting a scrape of what they bring in? Do you pay them? How does this work?

[Genghis Cohen]

No. So the way it works is that. So the girls pay to work there, Right?

[Host]

Okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

So they pay you to work there. It's called a stage fee or house fee. And then actually there's a house fee. So that's what they pay to sort of work there. And then if they don't want to have to go on stage, then they pay a stage fee as well.

[Host]

Okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

And then usually the customers pay to come in the front door. And then of course, you make money off the drinks. And then most customers will pay the girls with a credit card. So the way that that works is that, you know, the club usually charges 10 to 15% surcharge on a credit card transaction. Strong, right? Yeah. But guys pay it.

[Host]

It's a nice scrape.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, when they got tits in their face and they're. And they're drunk and.

[Host]

$300 Bud Light.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

She loves me. She loves me.

[Genghis Cohen]

I literally.

[Steve Sanders]

My car.

[Genghis Cohen]

Let it ride. I literally had a 45 minute calm debate with Quentin Tarantino because he bought, I don't know, like 30 lesbians into the club and took the whole VIP room. And he had this monster bar tab. And he said, look, I will pay for everything, but I am not paying $12 for a diet Coke. I'm like, dude, you're in the champagne room. Like, it is what it is. And it was actually quite interesting at the end. I said, okay, if I take care of the six twelve dollar Diet Cokes, will you pay the bill? Yep, no problem. Yeah, that's.

[Host]

Yeah, I ran into him one time. He's an interesting cat at a Marriott bar in like, just north of Santa Barbara. I said nothing to him because he was sitting in the, like at the bar on the Far Edge, appearing to have a pretty shitty night. Or maybe that's just his resting bitch face.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

But I rolled in there and I think I was ordering some food to go, and I looked at him like, that's fucking Quentin Tarantino. Okay, I'm out of here. Yeah, that's my Quentin Tarantino.

[Genghis Cohen]

Sorry.

[Host]

Thank you for being a part of my TED talk Good Time.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, it's so 30 lesbians.

[Host]

That's how he's rolling.

[Genghis Cohen]

It was some sort of movie project he was working on because then we sort of started talking about what he was doing in Vegas and stuff. Okay. But it was interesting. I mean, I got so many stories, dude.

[Host]

I mean, that's a tremendous amount of people working for you.

[Genghis Cohen]

So you got to remember at any one time, the Max on the floor would maybe be 180 girls. So you've got 1600, 180 on the floor. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

How big was this place?

[Genghis Cohen]

Not big, dude. It was only 5,000 square feet. I mean you go to a place like some of the big clubs in Vegas like Sapphires and Rhino, there's a thousand girls rolling through there in a day. Because that, don't forget it's 24 hours. So you've got two shifts and they can have three.

[Host]

That isn't even three computers.

[Genghis Cohen]

Three to 400 girls on the floor. So if you have three shifts, you know, on a busy, like if it's super bowl weekend like the F1 now. Yeah, I mean, is that counting like.

[Steve Sanders]

The, the servers and.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, no, that's just dances.

[Steve Sanders]

Geez.

[Host]

What would a high end earner on a peak like F1day? What are we looking at? Take home.

[Genghis Cohen]

I had girls that work for me that made over a million dollars a year. What? Yeah, high end girls that work for me that made over a million a year.

[Steve Sanders]

Holy shit.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I had a girl that worked for me and she super smart Korean lady, she'd make money at the club and then she'd put it away and then she'd buy real estate. She was still working at the club and her real estate portfolio was over $20 million. And I go, why are you still at the club? And she goes, I've been working here for 18 years. She's like, you know, what do you want me to, you know, this is my life. These are all my friends. So they just stayed working there.

[Host]

We, we're not in the right line of business.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, dude. But it's.

[Host]

I don't know if there's a male version of this, but I'm a little bit let down. Not that I have the fucking self confidence to go do that, but I'm like a fucking million dollars a year. God damn.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Because you go try out for a thunder from down under or whatever because.

[Genghis Cohen]

They would just, you know, it's really interesting. Like probably my most successful girls really never took their clothes off. It's all about talking. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a really, you know, it's interesting. I have a friend who's very big in the only fans business and only 30% of it has anything to do with sexual stuff. The rest of it's just. What are you doing? Hey, can you send me $5 for a coffee? Yeah. And then. But she's got like, you know, 100 guys sending her $5 for a coffee that morning. She's drinking one coffee, but she's getting 500. You know, it's, it's a lot about talking and feeling they're part of the person's life. It's, it's, it's a really.

[Steve Sanders]

So it's a scam.

[Host]

I don't think it's gone. I think that's how detached our society is from actual relationships.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

With people sitting down. I don't know. How old are your kids now?

[Steve Sanders]

22, 17 and 4.

[Host]

So you're probably seeing it more in the. So Julie's my youngest, 16. She is more comfortable communicating with this between the human being than. By the way, I'm more comfortable communicating, which is by putting this down and just fucking bullshitting.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

For hours.

[Host]

So there's that aspect of it, but man, there's lonely people out there. First off, I've never been on only fans. What? Here's my thing. Do whatever the you want to do. As long as it's consenting adult, I don't care.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right.

[Host]

If you're like Michael and you want to fist other dudes while eating jelly beans, go ahead. But as long as you're not hurting somebody and it's like, it's consensual. Whatever. I don't understand the only fans thing at all. It, I don't get it.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's incredible, man. I, I, I, I, I got a, I know some people that are working the tech, the tech side of it. So the back end side of it, the numbers they throw at me are just, you know, I've seen people making millions to give you an idea, a number that was given to me.

[Host]

I don't actually know how the site works, so I don't know if it's live interaction or.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, it's, it's live and everything else, but like this friend of mine that works in the back end of the industry, like the technical side of it, pun intended. Yeah, yeah, Totally indented. He was, he was telling me that only fans paid out more money to content creators than the NBA. Played out to all the players in the NBA, which is a big number. Yeah, it's, it like the numbers are staggering because I didn't, I didn't understand how, like, I didn't really understand the financial model, but when I sort of became friends with these guys, they helped me understand the financial model.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And it's, it's crazy, like, because it's exponential. Right. So one of the things that really hit the strip club business was onlyfans. Cause these girls are like, well, I gotta go into the club. I gotta pay to be in the club. I gotta do my hair. I gotta do my makeup. I gotta ask, you know, 20, 30 guys to give me. To give them a dance. And then one guy's. And then I gotta work that guy to get him into 3 for 100 room or into the VIP room. And then I go, or I can just set up the spare room in my house with a couple of cameras and set up this onlyfans. And then, you know, buy a fucking Bugatti. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

What's the craziest thing you ever saw happen in a strip club?

[Genghis Cohen]

Dude, That's a hard question.

[Steve Sanders]

Gunfight.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Well, okay.

[Host]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Steve Sanders]

I know. I was like, all right. That's pretty crazy. I mean, I want to see that.

[Genghis Cohen]

The craziest thing, without mentioning names.

[Host]

I mean, you can if you want to. It's just the Internet.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I don't want to get sued, but.

[Steve Sanders]

Somebody'S going to find it.

[Genghis Cohen]

A. A very famous female personality. Celebrity personality. So let's just say this person's name is, I don't know, Susan. So I get a call from my security, and they go, there's someone passed out in the woman's bathroom. I said, well, you know, pick them up. Just take them out. No, no, they're passed out in a cubicle. And the cubicle's locked. It's like, fuck. Okay. So I walk in there and I say, there's no key.

[Steve Sanders]

Like.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. And I say, okay, who is it? Cause I thought it was one of the dancers. Right. Cause we don't have a lot of.

[Steve Sanders]

Girls in the club, so this thing's completely contained.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, it's like in a cubicle in the woman's bathroom.

[Steve Sanders]

Like, you can't jump over the top or anything.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, you can.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh.

[Genghis Cohen]

But I'm like. So I go into the woman's bathroom, and there's just a set of girls legs out the bottom of the stall.

[Host]

Fuck. Yeah. She's just. It's a little nap. I get it.

[Genghis Cohen]

And I'm like. I said, who? Who is it? And they said, susan. Which if I used the name, everybody would know who it is. Just a very famous celebrity. And I'm like, I don't remember that name as a dancer. Which. Which one? Cause we have three dancers with that name, I believe. And he goes, no, no, it's the one. And I'm like, what do you mean? Well, is she here by herself? No, she's here with a bodyguard. Actually, she's here with two bodyguards. I'M like, well, where the fuck are her bodyguards? They're in the VIP room. Well, go get the bodyguards.

[Host]

Yeah, and.

[Genghis Cohen]

And first of all, your job.

[Host]

Handle your.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, like, go get the bodyguards. Because, of course, imagine. Imagine a celebrity passed out in a stripper's bathroom with 20 strippers with. With their.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

With their phones out, you know?

[Host]

So I'm like, it's gonna hit the old Internet.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. This is gonna be a disaster. Right? So I'm like. I'm, like, trying to cover this, you know, I'm trying to keep this down so no one can see what the fuck's going on. My lead security guy comes back. He goes. He wanted to know if he needs to come now. I'm like, yeah, he fucking needs to come now. She's unconscious, wrapped around the toilet. What's he doing? And he says, well, he's paid a girl for an hour, and he's still got 20 minutes to go. I'm like, well, you know what? She will probably reimburse him for the 20 minutes of his hour. Well, rather than.

[Steve Sanders]

At this point, he's fired.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, rather than this. So, sure. Shit. They come rolling in and wrapped this girl up.

[Host]

Did they just, like, drag the feet out from underneath the stove?

[Genghis Cohen]

Grab the feet, pulled her out from underneath the stool.

[Host]

Nice head crack on the way down.

[Genghis Cohen]

I actually said to him, because they started doing this, like, stop. I'm like, everyone out of the restroom. And you know, all the strippers, like, get out of the goddamn restroom.

[Steve Sanders]

Couldn't get the door open.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, no, dude, it's like, from the inside. And someone said, right? And you kick the door open. I'm like, no, you're not breaking my fucking door. So they just.

[Steve Sanders]

Or smacking the person in the face.

[Genghis Cohen]

And she's literally lying on the floor.

[Host]

I mean, you could have, like, jumped up over the top with your hand. You could have commandoed underneath.

[Genghis Cohen]

And, like, I was way more worried about 30 strippers with cell phones.

[Steve Sanders]

So you're basically just trying to get her the. Out of there.

[Genghis Cohen]

I'm trying to get the hell out of it, because I'm just. In my mind, we're gonna get sued. Like, we're gonna be all over the Internet. Like, this is gonna be horrible.

[Steve Sanders]

Might be good advertising, maybe.

[Genghis Cohen]

I don't know. But. But so they sure enough, the security dragged her out, threw them over her shoulder, and. And then he starts to walk out the front of the club like, it's a Saturday night.

[Host]

I'm like, this is day one. You need to go out the back door.

[Genghis Cohen]

I'm like, out the back door, dude.

[Steve Sanders]

100%.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, most celebrity bodyguards have, from my understanding will be the polite way to put this. They're not always the top shelf choice.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

With experience and background.

[Genghis Cohen]

This was one of those celebrities that just hires guys that can eclipse the sun.

[Host]

Oh, so massive black dudes.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. But absolutely worthless in a. You know, they're very intimidating to most people.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

But like I was. I always know someone knows security when their security guy is like, you know, five foot eight, slim guy, very, you know, very unassuming. That's. Hey, mate.

[Steve Sanders]

Like, that's the dude you have to.

[Genghis Cohen]

Be like, that's the dude you got to be worried of, you know? But yeah, that's. That's just one of. Like, I could. Dude, I could tell a million stories.

[Host]

Like, were there gunfights in the strip club?

[Genghis Cohen]

So this is. This is a true. So one time.

[Steve Sanders]

Do you guys have Metal Detective?

[Genghis Cohen]

No, but they start. I think they have them now, but we didn't. But there was one time a famous rapper came to my club and we had this. Call it racist or not, but it just. It is what it is. We didn't play a lot of hip hop music at the club because it just. It just doesn't work, you know, just reality. I had a very famous rapper come to the club with this big party.

[Steve Sanders]

Bus, play a little like Nickelback and stuff, right?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, that's what we played a lot of. So I said to him, actually, that's not true. We did play hip hop music, but just really tough on the door, like, you know, you have to be tough on the door there. Cause things can turn bad real quick. So anyway, like, they call me to the front door. You're rocking up to the front door. And this guy goes to me, he's like, yeah, the celebrity, the famous rapper. He's like, yeah, what kind of music you guys play here? And I'm like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I'll give you guys $20,000 right now just to play hip hop for the rest of the night. I'm like, no. He goes, dude, I got a bus full of, you know, 20 guys. We're going to come in and sorry, man, we're not going to do that. So they went to another club in Vegas and it ended up that there was a gunfight and a security guy got shot. One of their bouncers got shot at the other club. It's.

[Host]

Damn.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, it's. And. And there's this whole underworld like, people don't realize there's this whole underworld. Like, when you go to. When you go to Vegas and you get in a cab, that cab driver's getting paid $30 for up to $70 for every person in that cab. So Limo rolls up with 10 guys. He's getting $700 cash from the club. Oh, so in one year we paid.

[Steve Sanders]

Really?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. One year I paid up three and a half million dollars in cash to taxi drivers and limo drugs. So.

[Host]

So if they hop in and say, take me to a strip club.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

You're paying them to bring them to your establishment.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yep. Yep. Yeah. Oh, and that's. Yeah. So what if.

[Host]

I never thought about.

[Steve Sanders]

What if they say, take me to, you know, whatever place?

[Genghis Cohen]

They still say they have a particular. No, no, they. They'll divert you. So. So, yeah, it's a big deal. So, like, let's.

[Steve Sanders]

So if you're like, take me to this place and you end up at another place.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Oh, dude. They're some of those. In the old days, at least the cab drivers are really. It's like, if you're paying $70 and I'm paying $50 ahead, like, you're going to be the busy guy and. And you. And someone gets in a taxi to come to my. My club, they'll go, no, it burnt down. It's a gay club, doesn't exist. I don't know where it is, you.

[Steve Sanders]

Know, and they just raided it, you.

[Genghis Cohen]

Know, Or I won't charge you a cab fare because I want you guys to have a good time to go to this other club, you know? But he's taking you forward.

[Steve Sanders]

I know, man.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's this whole underground. This whole underground thing of the way that district clubs are there.

[Host]

And how much do you spend per day on, like, Clorox at a place like that? Do you just do, like, misting foam that comes down. You get in there with fucking chem bios.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know what? It's.

[Steve Sanders]

It's.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's funny. Like, strip. Like, people think that strip clubs are like these super dirty, sleazy places. And some are, but the majority, I mean, because it's super regulated, like, getting an adult use license in Las Vegas, it's not quite as bad as getting a gaming license.

[Host]

Does that mean a strip club license?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, like, yeah, they call it a cabaret license. But to get it, it's really tough. Like, and it's. And Viceroy Vice and Metro, the police are always in there doing sting operations, solicitation of prostitution, like, all that kind of stuff. So they're, you know, I mean, there's shit that happens in strip clubs, but honestly, that same shit happens in nightclubs in Vegas for sure. And way more of that shit happens in high roller rooms. I mean, it's just, you know, Vegas is what Vegas is. I mean, I used to work at a hotel casino. I've worked at a few of them, but, you know, where the prostitutes walk in and, like, the security guy's like, hey, Susan, how's it going? Hi, Ken. How are you? How are the kids? Are they good? How about you? Like, you know, it just. It's. They can't be overt about it. Yeah, but, yeah, it happens. And. But it's a whole. I just thought, like, the most successful girls that work for me were usually psychology people with master's degrees in psychology. I had some PhDs in psychology. I had some sociology PhDs. And they would just. They just knew how to. And I kind of ran it a little bit like. Like the military. So I had like four or five girls that were like, my, like, you know, unit commanders. And I wouldn't tell all the girls what had to happen. I just tell those four girls and, like, I wouldn't charge them a house fee. And like, you know, they. They might be able to. They get a tall locker in the locker room instead of a short one. So I'd. I'd take care of them, but. And then they would disseminate the information, and they were literally like, you know, they were like NCOs, and they. They ruled their little. Little unit of girls, you know, and they made sure everybody made money and they made sure no one ripped anybody off, and they made sure no one was dealing drugs and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I was around. It's like, I'm looking at, wow, why'd.

[Host]

You decide to get out of that particular life?

[Genghis Cohen]

I just. It Just running, managing those girls. Oh, that's why it's cool. Like, hurting bipolar cats. Dude, it is like the, like, people were coming, man. You have the best job in the world because everybody thinks, like, you're just sitting in the office getting blowjobs all night.

[Host]

Is that not the case?

[Steve Sanders]

No.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like, dude, the number of times I literally had to run into the. Into the dancer's dressing room and literally grab naked women and pull them off other naked women.

[Host]

Oh, they're just fighting.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, my God.

[Host]

How was their striking? How was their stand up?

[Genghis Cohen]

If nails in hair pulling could be turned into a martial art, like, they could all be black belts. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Unreal. Just ribbon extension and like I'm like.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, like, you know, I'm 63 and 240 and I'm like holding this good like holding this little 5 foot 210 pound dripping wet girl.

[Host]

Tasmanian devil though.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. You know, and, and so that happened a lot. Oh dude. All they would always get in fights like, like there'd always be fights or. I remember one time I get called Genghis. Back door, back door, back door. And like when they say that I'm like, are we getting robbed because we have cash at the back door? No, it's one of my strippers on the hood of a taxi cab with her heel smashing the. Because the taxi cab driver pissed her off and she's smashing this taxi cab driver's like himself in this little 5 foot 110 pound chip and wet strippers like on the air driving a heel through the windshield of his car. Like if you could figure out how to maybe I would see that, that would like there'd be a killer like unit to like drop in somewhere to kill people. Because they've all got the killer instinct. I'll tell you right now. Like you don't have to teach them to killers, you just have to kind of manage them. But. Yeah.

[Host]

What would you estimate is the average time in that occupation?

[Genghis Cohen]

I had a mother, daughter working for me.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh boy.

[Genghis Cohen]

So I had a daughter.

[Host]

I don't know how I feel about that.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know what's weird? Like we, we at one point we had, we had a midget working there.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh boy.

[Genghis Cohen]

They are the bit like they make so much money like for any, like I'm almost afraid to ask questions for any like. I don't know if what the politically correct term is, but dwarf a midget who's thinking about getting into the stripper business. You will make a fortune. Yeah, got like it, it's. It's such a novelty, you know. I mean. Oh yeah, yeah. And the shit I used to do. I know like we used to have to. Yeah, you like make a fortune like you know, and then the girls, when the girls come to do auditions, we'd like.

[Steve Sanders]

I don't think midget is politically correct either.

[Genghis Cohen]

Sorry, Steve.

[Steve Sanders]

Little people.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, the little people.

[Steve Sanders]

Anyway, I don't know. Yeah, I just, I heard that on a, on a movie.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, it was just like a whole different world, you know? Yeah. Like I would have to. I remember I was when I first started there, you know, because I came from a corporate world. So I was working for a large corporation in a hotel casino. Running nightclubs for them. And I kind of, through a series of funny stories, I got enticed into this strip club business. It had nothing to do with the women. It actually had to do with just the owner was super cool, and it was a long story. But when I first started, like, the girls would come in the day, and they'd audition, right? So, you know, it's the only job I've ever had in my life where the legitimate part of the job interview is, okay, sweetheart, you got to take your top off. I was just. Yeah, because that's a legitimate part of the job.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And. And. And we would, like. Like, the girls would come in, they'd get on stage, they'd do this, like, little pole dance. They'd take their top off, and we go, okay, you're good, or, okay, no good, you know, oh, you can't come back. And I never forget this girl come in, and she goes, you know, I'm kind of new to the poll, but I've been practicing a lot, so I'm not perfect at it. And I'm like.

[Steve Sanders]

I'm like, how did you not start laughing immediately? Wait, you're new to the poll. First of all, what are we.

[Genghis Cohen]

Okay, so I'm like. I'm new. I'd only been there a few months. I was like, I didn't know where this was going. And I'm like, okay, sweetheart. Yeah, that's fine. You know, don't be nervous. It's cool. She goes, okay, well, I'm just gonna get ready, and I'll do my routine. She goes, but if it's not quite right, I promise you I'll practice and get it better. Like, okay. She fucking walks out of the room, comes back in, she's got a full fucking motorcycle helmet on.

[Host]

Safety first.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, safety first. And I'm like. I'm, like, looking at her, and now I'm trying not to.

[Host]

She's protecting her head for the potential fault.

[Genghis Cohen]

Sure.

[Host]

Safety first.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, sure. She. She does this whole routine, slides down the pole, cracks her head on the stage. If she hadn't been wearing the helmet, she probably would have knocked herself out. And I said, well, you know what?

[Host]

Good call.

[Genghis Cohen]

And I said to her, I said, you're hired, because at least you had the smarts to think of wearing a crash helmet. And that girl actually ended up working. She was still working there when I left. But, yeah, I was just like, so you just. So many interesting people, man. But how.

[Host]

I mean, a couple years would they. If they. If they got in that Line of work and they were making money. Would they stay for a really long time?

[Genghis Cohen]

30 years.

[Steve Sanders]

30.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I. Girls, like, I had girls working for me that were. Well, the mother, daughter, I think the mother. Asian mother, daughter. I think the mother. This is going to sound. It's kind of hard to believe. She was. I think she was 60 and I swear to God she had the body of like a 25 year old. It was absolutely. It was like a. She was like a genetic freak. Like if her and her daughter danced together, you would think they were almost twins. Yeah, well, that likely.

[Host]

Probably get us removed from all platforms right there.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. You know. Yeah. So. But I know girls that were. And, but, you know, I know girls that work for 25 years in the strip club business, you know, and they ended up with, well, that one that had a real. That massive real estate portfolio. But the smart ones would have, you know, 10, 15 homes, all paid for generating, you know, they'd invested in the stock market wisely. They had side businesses going, you know, so a lot of them actually did really, really well out of it. There's a lot. You would be amazed how many female lawyers and doctors and professionals put themselves through school or paid to put themselves through school through working in a strip club.

[Host]

Michael, are you 23 or 24?

[Genghis Cohen]

25.

[Host]

Okay. Have you ever been to a strip club?

[Genghis Cohen]

Nope. I mean, if you come to Vegas, you will.

[Host]

Do you have any desire to go to one?

[Genghis Cohen]

Not particularly.

[Host]

After these stories.

[Genghis Cohen]

I mean that.

[Steve Sanders]

It sounds really exciting.

[Host]

Does your generation talk about strip clubs at all?

[Steve Sanders]

Not really.

[Genghis Cohen]

I mean, I don't know, maybe club.

[Host]

I had no choice. I was put in a navy 12 pack van and I was literally carried inside of it the night that I pulled the knife on the guy. The first time I lost my trident. We started off at a strip club at like 10am in Tucson. It was.

[Steve Sanders]

Wait, the first time you lost your trident?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

What?

[Genghis Cohen]

What?

[Host]

You've known me a long time. You didn't know that? Downtown Tucson, I pulled a knife on the bouncer and then I ran away from the cop cars and helicopter.

[Steve Sanders]

No, I don't recall. No. That sounds like a fun story. Was that. Were you in gold or.

[Host]

Oh no, I was at Team 5. I was on my first platoon after having received my trident.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh yeah, first trip, It's a good new guy move.

[Host]

First trip after receiving my trident, all that went down. And my CO just slides a pair of scissors across the desk because I had just gotten the patch put on my uniform. He goes, yeah, once you go Ahead and cut that right off. Yeah. Club's even a thing for your generation.

[Genghis Cohen]

Now that I'm thinking about it, I do have a really good friend that.

[Steve Sanders]

Does like strip clubs.

[Host]

Does he live here?

[Genghis Cohen]

No.

[Host]

I was gonna say, are there even strip clubs in Montana?

[Genghis Cohen]

Not in Kalispell.

[Steve Sanders]

I think there's one in Missoula, probably.

[Genghis Cohen]

Bozeman and Billings, but I don't know how much I would trust those.

[Steve Sanders]

What's that supposed to mean?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, we could go.

[Host]

I'll give you a $300 stipend and I'll drive you there.

[Genghis Cohen]

I may not spend it at the strip club, but if you want to.

[Steve Sanders]

Give me $300, I'll go there with you.

[Host]

The requirement is you leave with no money.

[Steve Sanders]

The strip club or leave Missoula strip club.

[Genghis Cohen]

Okay.

[Host]

I'm just curious if it's still a thing. Like my introduction to it. Like I said, I had no choice whatsoever.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

It was just part of the group of guys literally in a navy 12 pack econoline van. And that's where we ended up.

[Steve Sanders]

White.

[Host]

Totally. 100 white. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And we all had Guvi plates. Yeah.

[Host]

And a huge van fight on the way home from that. People choking each other out with seat belts.

[Steve Sanders]

And dude, the fan fights like we would in sniper school. Yeah, dude, we. We leave Atterbury and go up to Indiana on the weekend. Indianapolis. And you know, go bar hopping. And just if we get hammered and we had our, you know, during sniper school, they have a new guy come up. It's like he's like the, the. Basically the. The driver, he makes food. He's like a new guy at whatever, you know, Seal Team 2, 8, whatever. And. And we'd all jump in the same thing, 12 pack van and go up there and just, you know, party all night and then all get in the pellet. I'm like, all right, X fill, you know, we're out of here at 2:00. Exfil, get in the van. And it's like 45 minute drive at least back to Atterbury. And just the van fights were just ridiculous.

[Host]

We're talking about legitimate caged animals in a moving Ford van.

[Steve Sanders]

I it like with like over the.

[Host]

Sea, knock down, drag out, beating the. Out of your friends legitimately. Seat belts wrapped around necks.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Oh, God. Yeah. Those. Those were hard to explain sometimes on the damage on those vehicles.

[Steve Sanders]

And it was like it was. It was fighting, but it wasn't. It was like wrestling. But, you know, sometimes, of course, you.

[Host]

Know, there's a little Escalation on one side, so somebody else bumps it up a bit. Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Or you might have, like, a little, you know, like, issue with some dude, and the next thing you know, he's getting ganged up on and working it out.

[Host]

You can't beat the out of your friends. Who can you beat the out of?

[Genghis Cohen]

I think that's the way the friendships are formed, at least. Man, how many times have you guys been in a fight and then the guy that you get in a fight with ends up being, like, a friend for life?

[Host]

Zero.

[Genghis Cohen]

That's never happened to you? I haven't to me twice.

[Steve Sanders]

No. I mean, I think we were just talking about last night that Andy and.

[Host]

I, you know, I had been in a fight with Steve, but against other people.

[Steve Sanders]

But, dude, that was like. I mean, how many dudes were. It was. It was basically. It was a wedding party.

[Host]

And the odds were not in our favor on that one.

[Steve Sanders]

But.

[Host]

So, as usual, the violence of action will generally see you through the day.

[Steve Sanders]

Pretty funny. So we're in Salt Lake, and we're like. Andy and I just went downtown, just him and I, and we're probably laying, like, four or five blocks away from our hotel. We're like. We just went in there and have a couple cocktails, you know, nothing serious. And on the way out, I'm like, I'm starving. So I walk over and. I forgot about this part. We. I walk over and let me get a, like, slice of pizza. It was like, pizza place right there. We get a slice and, like, a Diet Coke, whatever. And he's like, hey, I'm gonna get a cab. So cool. Hail a cab. The dude pulls up. I still have the pizza in my hand. And there's this, like, wedding party and this, like, all the group of people. And I remember this dude walks up, and he's got a bow tie on. He's, like, dressed up, and there's a lot of people, men, you know, wedding, what a wedding party looks like. And the dude walks up, and he jumps in front of me. He's like, oh, yeah, this is. This is our cab. And I was like, no, it's not my cab. And so I sell my pizza thing, and the guy, like, totally gets in my face. And next thing you know, I just freaking. The dude's, like, in my face. I just blast him and take him down. And next thing you know, like, three of his buddies jump me. And then at that point, I think Andy's, like, probably getting a pizza or whatever, and he looks over. Next thing you know, I'm. I'm get jumped. I'm in the gutter. I'm in between the. I'm in. I'm literally between the taxi in the. In the curb, in the gutter. And this dude's on top of me and. And next thing you know, I look up and. And then Andy's like ripping this dude off, just like, just pounding his head. So I jump up, another dude comes over, like gets to my face and I already had this dude. I had my hands on this guy. And I just headbutt this dude right in the face and his face explodes like just blood. And Andy grabs me and we're like, there's. Now there's like 10 dudes. And as soon as the dude's head explodes, like his face explodes, they're kind of like, oh fuck. Okay, we're not into this.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

So Andy's like, let's get the fuck out of here. I'm like, good call. So we like kind of fast walk and there's just happens to be. You know, they have those bicycle rickshaw things. And Andy runs out there and he's like, hey. So we jump in the back of this rickshaw and him. And I just start laughing uncontrollably.

[Host]

I started telling this guy, like, I'll give you more cash if you pedal faster. But the gearing on this thing is like a 10 speed going up goddamn San Francisco Hill.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, he's like.

[Host]

He's fucking just Mac. His legs are blurry. They're spinning so fast. And we're going like four miles an hour.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so he's ripping back and Andy and I like. I don't know why, but we just could not.

[Genghis Cohen]

Because you're sleeping on a rickshaw.

[Steve Sanders]

We couldn. Laughing the fact that that just happens. And we ended up like jump like 10 dudes and just like destroyed these dudes. And then now, now we're in a rickshaw like heading back to our hotel.

[Genghis Cohen]

Dude, that's crazy.

[Steve Sanders]

And the dude in the rickshaw is like. He's freaked out because he kind of like saw the whole thing. And this dude looks like his face exploded. And we're on this rickshaw and we laughed all the way back to the hotel. And in like we're walking in the lobby and Annie busted up and we're kind of. We're trying to recall what happened. He's like. And he's like, what happened? I'm like, I'm not really sure, dude. Cuz I loaded like I'm not really sure what the happened. Like, we're gonna have to try to do some memory recall in the morning.

[Genghis Cohen]

Which probably weren't even. You didn't even. You probably weren't even aware.

[Host]

I looked over and people were on top of my friends. And so I just started peeling them off one at a time.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. And like we're literally in the car the next morning because we had like, you know, jump master brief that we're. Because we were on a jump course at like 5:30 in the morning. So we're like literally in the rental car. And Andy's like, what the happened? I'm like, I don't know what happened. I don't know. You tell me. He's like, I don't know, dude. Like, I don't know what happened. But next thing I look over and there's like four dudes on you and. Yeah.

[Host]

So probably an interesting set of wedding pictures.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Can you imagine?

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

The next day, groom's noses.

[Steve Sanders]

It was the groom. It was the room.

[Genghis Cohen]

Because I remember this face.

[Steve Sanders]

Remember these.

[Host]

That's kind of what shut it down. They. That level of. Of. I guess I would say violence in the result of that. I think they probably had that feeling of like, oh fuck, we gotta take pictures tomorrow.

[Steve Sanders]

And I remember the. I don't know who it was. Maybe it was one of the bridesmaids, who knows? But I remember like, that's the groom screaming at me. And I don't. God knows what I said to her.

[Host]

I'm sure it was classy and professional.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm so sorry I was.

[Genghis Cohen]

Did you guys ever get in trouble when you're in the military with the. With the. With the future wives of other team guys because of what you did to them before their wedding?

[Host]

No, we did one time hazing.

[Genghis Cohen]

You mean like. Like doing stupid shit right before a wedding and almost fucking the wedding up?

[Host]

We had a guy who did not gel well in my first platoon and. Right. We were in Nyland, the training facility. Last time I saw him, because I was in my first platoon as well. He was zip tied inside of a shopping cart in the shower area with water running on him. Both of his eyebrows had been shaved and they put a halo into his head as well. So I don't think those wedding pictures were great either.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, well, I remember. So hazing doesn't happen anymore. Yeah, technically. And I remember because back in the day, like, hazing was normal. You got hazed if it was your birthday, if you got married, like any.

[Host]

We should be reason. It was. It was actually. It Was not punitive. It was good hearted.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Host]

It was almost. It wasn't like, wasn't happening. You're like, do you guys not like me?

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Host]

You know, so if you didn't get.

[Steve Sanders]

Haze, you know, you weren't like, they.

[Host]

Weren'T trying to hurt you or physically, emotionally.

[Steve Sanders]

We hazed a guy. He's now deceased. Freaking Fred Platt, RIP bro. He was my shooting buddy in sniper school. But yeah, if. If you didn't get hazed, there was something very wrong. And you knew like, you knew it was happening because as much as you tried to hide your birthday or the fact that you were getting married or like any excuse to hate somebody, it would happen. And like for summer, got married. Yeah. I ended up. They spray painted me. Like they spray painted my entire body and spray painted, taped up, thrown in a dip tank in Little Creek. So we have these, we have these big tanks.

[Host]

They're about the size of this table almost. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And. And you know that's where we're. We did like pre diver rigs and you had to put your rig in the dip tank, make sure you have any leaks. And so in the winter in Little Creek, like when you went out to the dip tank, there was probably like a 1 or 2 inch ice on the top of it. And it just so happened that I was getting married on February 1, long, long time ago. And sure enough, I'm in the dip tank and they're like, hold on a second. You know there's somebody's in there with like a hammer breaking the ice. And then off I'm already taped up. And then in the dip tank I'm already spray painted. They spray painted me. They take me up to one of the poles in the back, the back 40 there, take me up, spray painted me. Literally I was. I remember going to the wedding or like a couple days before and I'm like trying to get spray paint off the in. You're trying to get spray paint out of the inside of your ears?

[Host]

No, because I've never had it in my ears.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, exactly. Not to me, people. But I remember like, what the hell am I gonna do? So like had to go like buy nail polish remover like in there with a Q tip. Trying to get spray paint on my ears. And it was in my hair.

[Genghis Cohen]

And we had a. The only reason I was asking is because I just remember one time when I was in the military, we had one of our buddies was getting married. So we, you know, similar. I think it's every. It doesn't matter which country you're in. All militaries are the same, but similar story to that. We thought, like, what can we do to really fuck with him? And so in New Zealand, we have these little. It's like a little cocktail sausage called a Cheerio, and it's, like, red.

[Host]

Like a little cocktail weenie.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Why do you call it a Cheerio?

[Genghis Cohen]

I don't know. That's what they call it. So we went to a butcher's shop and we bought, like, 20 gallons of the dye. And we thought, how funny would it be? Like, we'll get him really drunk and we'll dye him so that the next day he's red. Seems funny. We got, like, a week for the wedding, so it'll be fine. Well, us being dumbasses, we didn't really know much about the dye. True shit. We get them, like, hammered, and then we fill a bathtub full of this dye.

[Host]

Shit was permanent, wasn't it?

[Genghis Cohen]

Well. Well, yeah. What we didn't read is it was a. Concentrate.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh.

[Genghis Cohen]

So we. So we, like. We literally got him drunk, and then we. We had a snorkel in his mouth, I think, and we were just, like, dipping him in the bathtub, right? We're dipping him. And so we wake up the next day and we're all fucking hungover. And all of a sudden, like, his wife calls his wife to be. Calls. You motherfuckers are uninvited from the wedding.

[Steve Sanders]

I can't believe you.

[Genghis Cohen]

Fuck. And we're like, what? We couldn't figure it out, Dude. That. It was like a month. He was like. Like fire engine fucking red. He had to wear makeup for the whole wedding, like.

[Host]

Yeah, because your skin.

[Genghis Cohen]

And if a lot of the guys.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. You look really normal with makeup on.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, dude, gloves. Like, he had his uniform on, but he was in gloves, and it's like, all makeup.

[Steve Sanders]

That's great.

[Genghis Cohen]

She was so pissed. Yeah. If none of us had been in that. None of us have been in the wedding party, we would all been uninvited. It was. It was pretty close. She. She hated us for, like, two years. Easy.

[Host]

It's worth it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

It's so worth the story.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like this.

[Host]

So what did you do after the strip clubs? What'd you get yourself into? You've lived a storied entrepreneurial life.

[Genghis Cohen]

I have. I moved to Africa and got in the golden diamond business for about three and a half years, which was.

[Host]

I mean, that's a little bit of a lateral shift between Vegas strip clubs. What the fuck Well, I was just.

[Genghis Cohen]

I was sick of, like, I'd had enough of Vegas. I hadn't had enough of Vegas, but I just. I wanted to do something different. And there was some security opportunities over there and some aviation stuff I could do. Like, I knew some people in the aviation world, I knew some people in the security world. And I was like, ah. And then I had this opportunity to do some gold mining stuff. So started out in a place called In Accra, which is the capital of Ghana and based out of Accra. And then I would go to Sierra Leone, and I do. But, you know, when you're in Sierra Leone, you've got, like, you know, neighboring countries, so you've got Monrovia next door and, you know, you've got sort of stuff around there. So I was buying gold and I was buying gold there, and then sure as wherever you buy gold, there's diamonds. So we started getting into the diamond stuff too. But that was. That was super interesting, man. I mean, you know, just I'd spent time overseas, but never, like, in deepest, darkest Africa.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And that's a whole nother world, like.

[Steve Sanders]

I show you, when you had the shotgun ended up in your mouth.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I got kidnapped once when I was there. It's funny and.

[Host]

Funny at the time or funny now?

[Genghis Cohen]

It wasn't funny at the time. It's kind of funny now because I sort of think about it. But, yeah, I had like eight guys with shotguns and machetes, like, breaking the house. And all I had was a machete because turns out my. My lawyer, who I was like, I need a gun. And he's like, well, I can't get you a gun until you get residency. And I was like, well. And he was just trying to fleece me for 15 grand to get the residency. So I was like, fuck it, I don't need it. I've got. I had security guys and stuff. Yeah, well, as soon as these guys came over the fence, like my security, you know, you guys have worked with Indig security gone. I actually have to do something.

[Host]

They may well have been the ones who told them what time to come. Being honest.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Yeah. That's actually what may have happened. So they broke in the house and.

[Steve Sanders]

So I'm gonna go to lunch.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. And before I knew it, I, like, had a shotgun in my. In my mouth. And they were like, trying to. You know, it's funny because I had this crazy South African.

[Steve Sanders]

They thought you were somebody else, right?

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, they thought. I think they thought I was my business partner. I'm not sure, but they knew. They knew. We. We never kept money in the house, and we never kept diamonds in the house. And we were looking after diamond. A guy had said to us, hey, I've got to go. This was in Ghana, in Accra. They're like, hey, I've got to go to Sierra Leone. Can you. Can you put my diamonds and my gold and cash in your safe while I go? I was like, yeah, sure. My business partner was sure because he was going with him. Very next night, we got broken into. So we were pretty sure it was. I mean, the police said, yeah, it's a total incident, but, yeah, I mean.

[Host]

I mean, I'm no Sherlock Holmes, but I think I can connect the dots on that one.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, it was like. It lasted all of, like an hour and a half. They beat me a bit with a machete on the back. And then I just sort of said, look, I said. Cause they thought I knew how to get into the safe, but actually I didn't. I didn't have the code. My business partner did. Which is kind of dumb at the time. I don't know why I didn't have it. But the crazy thing too is I had this like, crazy old Afrikaans, South African. He. We'd been drinking that night, and he was so drunk that these eight guys smashed in the house, yelling, screaming, kicking down. He never woke up. And it's a good thing he wouldn't have because he was. He was one of those guys that you're pointing a gun at him and he's got a butter knife. He thinks he's going to win the fight. He was that kind of guy.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So he would have probably. It's good he didn't wake up because he probably would have made the situation worse. Yeah. But after that, I managed to get a gun because I went to the local police and they said, the local chief of police says, just give me $600, I'll give you a gun. And then I started changing the whole idea business after that because what I learned is that, you know, Africa seems to have these political systems, but they really only work in the towns. Once you. Once you get out into the country, paramount chiefs pretty much run the country. And then they have sub chiefs. And after I started working with the paramount chiefs, then it was really safe. Like, super safe. Like, no one would touch me.

[Host]

When did you get out of that business?

[Genghis Cohen]

Just before I started the gun range in Vegas. So, okay, 12 years ago. Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, that's again, a large and drastic deviation from what you were Doing?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

How'd you go from golds and diamonds to back to Vegas for a gun range?

[Genghis Cohen]

So a buddy of mine, two buddies of mine, my partner in the golden diamond business, he was big into the martial arts world. And then a buddy of mine, Tim, was also big into. He's big, big into self defense world. And they just said, like we said, hey, you know, one day we'd like to open a training business and teach shooting and teach self defense and that type of thing and just sort of have it as kind of a fun business. So we thought, you know, so one of Tim's big clients was Tony Robbins. And Tony wanted us to just get his wife Sage, comfortable with handguns. So I set up for him to go shoot at a gun range in Vegas. And we're like, hey, you know, we're bringing somebody in and you know, they're a celebrity and we. He just wants a private area. He's not here to, you know, to do anything for publicity. He just wants his wife because they have a big place up in Idaho and a lot of times she'll be at the place in Idaho. And he wasn't there. That was at the time. And we said, okay. So we did it. And it was just a shit show. Like, we go into this gun range and the owner's there taking pictures. And. Yeah, I don't know if you've ever met him, Tony, but he's. He's like. I know he's six, eight.

[Host]

I've heard. Like, he's impossible to not recognize.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a giant, nicest guy in the world.

[Steve Sanders]

So.

[Genghis Cohen]

Actually, remind me later, I have a great Tony Robbins story too, but he.

[Host]

Back from the strip clubs. I get it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. It's actually, it's an interesting story. And humility, to be honest with you. But, but, but, yeah, so we took him in there and I was just like, this is a shit show. You know, we can't. But like. And. And I was starting, like we were starting to train some celebrities, firearms training and stuff. And I'm like. So I said, we need our own range. I said, so let's make. Let's build our own gun range.

[Host]

What year was this?

[Genghis Cohen]

2011.

[Host]

Okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, 2011. So. So we built a gun range. And what we didn't realize is the amount of business that's in a tourist gun range. So we decided we're not gonna sell guns. Like, when I started out, everybody thought I was absolutely crazy. So they're like, you're gonna open a gun range that doesn't sell guns and doesn't sell ammunition. I'm like, yep, what are you gonna do? I said, we're just gonna train people and we're gonna do shooting experiences. So we put together, like, we have a SEAL Team 6 package. Right. And that's the guns that as SEAL Team 6, you know, so we have the guns that you guys would carry.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And that's a package. And someone would buy that package and they'd come to our gun range and shoot it. And I'd try to hire as many veterans as I could. So we put a lot of veterans in, which was great. Cause I'd high veterans as much as they can. So we, we got that going. What we didn't realize is we thought the training would be like 90 of our business and this little tourism thing would be like 10 of our business probably flipped, dude. It. Well, it was like one. Training was like 0.5% and 99.5%. Mean, in our busiest times, we were doing 40, 000 tourists a year. Yeah, yeah. And. And especially when there was like. Yeah, and that was a really interesting business because we get, you know, like, probably the most interesting were the Chinese. Like, the Chinese would book, come and shoot, and they'd show up in a 40 passenger bus and they'd all. And I. I couldn't figure it out until I started talking to the guy who ran the tour company. But they would come in and they'd shoot maybe one or two guns, but they'd take a picture holding each gun, and then they just get back on the bus. And I'm like, what's going on? He goes, they need to show that they have done something touristy while they're here. He said, they're really just here for the shopping. The shopping and the gambling.

[Host]

Okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

So it was, you know, you'd see all different types of people coming in.

[Host]

It was almost an expense justification.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, an expense and a political one. If they ever got questioned or they were. They, you know, they were so worried about going home and everybody knowing they went shopping and gambling.

[Host]

So you ever had somebody come into your range and off themselves?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yes, I've had it happen twice.

[Host]

That's gnarly. I don't think people realize how often that actually happens.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, it's very gnarly. And you know, it's sad too, because it really affects the people that are there at the time.

[Host]

Yeah, they're not there for the Picasso experience.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, I mean, I mean, I heard all the stories. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

I appeared to Deal with it twice. One outdoor and one indoor. Yeah. And it's weird.

[Host]

Was it men both times?

[Genghis Cohen]

It was men both times. And they were both from foreign countries and they specifically flew from a foreign country to Las Vegas to kill themselves. One was from Germany and one was from India.

[Host]

What was their weapon of choice?

[Genghis Cohen]

Both use Glocks. So for example, if you come to our gun range, we won't rent you a single. A single handgun. If you want to come and just rent a single handgun, we won't do it. Yeah.

[Host]

So if I come because of that? Yeah, because of that, my Genghis. I need a Glock 19. One round.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

And a range and just five minutes. You guys have a five minute block.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Red flags.

[Genghis Cohen]

Okay. Huge replay. So, you know, and people don't realize.

[Host]

How often this actually happens though at gun ranges.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh yeah, it's huge.

[Host]

Which it fuck. It fucks everybody. The owners don't want to deal with that. People at the range don't want to deal with that. It's horrendous.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, and it's. At the time I had a guy helping us out with managing the business and he was an ex Marine, right? No, his ex Green Beret and then worked for some of the three litre agencies. And a super good guy. He's still very, very, he's still very operational in, in that world and. But you know, he's a, he's an old, he's an old school guy. Right. So yep, this guy, this guy shot himself. So we got to clean it up. So like I wasn't there at the time.

[Steve Sanders]

It's like 20 minute call.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, like, like, so he's there and they're all like, you know, sweeping up like biohazard shit.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And I'm like.

[Steve Sanders]

You mean brains?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, brains and blood and stuff. And. And you know, I got a 25000 fine from OSHA for it because what.

[Host]

Were you supposed to do?

[Genghis Cohen]

We were meant to shut the range down, call a company that was licensed to remove biohazards. But you know we're military guys, right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

We're like, hey guys, it's a mess, we've got to clean it up. Let's clean up. That was his. That's. He didn't like that was any.

[Steve Sanders]

I never even knew that existed. Yeah, those types of.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Places.

[Steve Sanders]

Wow.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And that, that like, that's what that company does. They do come in clean body cleanup.

[Host]

I'm sure they do more than that. But it's in the biohazard realm that's one of the services they offer for sure.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

I'd imagine the same thing happened in the hotel world because people die in hotels too, right?

[Genghis Cohen]

People have absolutely no idea how many people die in hotels.

[Steve Sanders]

Really?

[Genghis Cohen]

Like, like tons of people die in hotels.

[Host]

What, how does a hotel room deal with it? They clean it up and just. Very quiet comes in.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, very quiet.

[Host]

Do you have to declare like, hey, just upon check in, we know you have the suite book. We just want to let you know that somebody so and so just died in there five minutes ago or maybe two hours ago. They'll just put somebody else right in there.

[Genghis Cohen]

But one thing Vegas is very good at is protecting the casinos. And not from a like illegal perspective, but just from a things that might, like, might make it look bad perspective.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, you know, that's definitely bad PR.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

But they don't stay in room 1301.

[Genghis Cohen]

I mean, when I was working, I was working, I was running at the time. Was arguably one of the most popular clubs in the world at that time. And, and there's a place in the, in the MGM called the Mansions. Right? So at that time you couldn't pay to stay at the Mansions. You either had to be a celebrity or I think you had to be, you had to be putting at least 100 to 150,000 a day across the table.

[Host]

Very well known person.

[Steve Sanders]

So they're all conquest.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, so. So huge conqueror. So I would get calls from the mansion all the time and say, hey, you know, so and so's a mansion guest. They're coming over, can you reserve them a table? And I'm like, yeah, no worries. It happened all the time. So I had this guy and his wife come in, super nice, well dressed, you know, and the Mansion and cordon said, hey, we have a very important match and guest come out. It's great. So I said to him, hey, do you want one of them, the best tables on the floor? He goes, nah, me and my wife just want to be chill, you know, if you can give us one of these tables up here. I was like, yeah, no worries. So I give him this table and I get a call on the radio. Genghis, Genghis, we need you downstairs. We need you downstairs. Fuck. Okay, what is it? So I go downstairs and it's this guy and he said, look, I need to speak to you really quick. There's a problem. I said, yeah, no problem. So I walk, walk outside with him. He, he pulls out a hypodermic needle and he's like, when we sat down. My wife sat down in the chair and this jabbed her in the backside. And I'm like, and. And he goes, my wife's freaking out. She's worried. She's got, like, hip B or something. Can you help me? And I'm like, yeah, no worries. So I immediately call security, immediately call medicine, because they have everything in the casino, right. So I immediately call medics. His wife's freaking out. Like, I've got aids. I've got this. So we pull her out of the casino. So anyway, I'm managing this whole situation, right? So this woman's going nuts now. We've got gurney's over there, and an ambulance has showed up and all this shit's going on. And this is at the back of a club on a Saturday night when the casino's cranking. Now I got a call from the security office. Genghis Engine. Security office. I'm like, dude, I'm dealing with this. He goes, no, you need to come over and see this. I said, okay.

[Host]

So it's popping off.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So I go to the security office.

[Steve Sanders]

She planted it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, yeah, that's it. So what ended up happening was this guy had just lost a few million dollars. So you see on the security camera, you see it pull something out of her purse. She had it in the couch, and then she starts bouncing, you know, back on it. Like, it's like it's a bouncy ball or.

[Host]

Incredibly believable.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Depending on how fucking jaded you are about the human species.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. And then they were literally going to try and leverage the casino to get out of the 2 million bucks that he just lost versus a lawsuit. Yeah. So they got arrested.

[Host]

Good. Yeah, they should.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Vegas is huge on that. If you. If. If you do anything like that, like. Like I'd have guys come to the strip club, and they'd be. Literally.

[Steve Sanders]

I mean, what would the charge be? Fraud.

[Genghis Cohen]

I. I don't know.

[Steve Sanders]

Geez.

[Host]

Probably.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. But. But yeah, you know, we'd have so many guys would come to the strip club and they'd drop three grand, five grand, ten grand, twenty grand, whatever it was. And then they. They get home and the credit card bill had come, and their wife would see it, and, you know, oh, that wasn't me. That wasn't me. So what we ended up doing is.

[Steve Sanders]

My car got stolen. Realized.

[Genghis Cohen]

But when they signed, I had a camera here, camera here, camera here, and a camera above them. And they would go. They'd dispute the charge.

[Host]

Yeah. Try to Charge that shit back and.

[Genghis Cohen]

And then we just send that to the credit card company and that'd be over. But sometimes guys would refuse to. I said, look, you agree to this, here's where you signed to agree to it. And they go, no. Okay, we just call Metro. And in Las Vegas it's called theft of service. So Metro come up and go, you don't pay your bill, you're going to jail. And that. So the whole system in Vegas is very much in favor. Like I just say to people, when you come to Vegas, don't around with casinos and don't like, just don't try and pull like that because multi billion.

[Host]

Dollar industries are not there because they don't know how to do business.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host]

They will you up.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh yeah.

[Host]

If you want to mess around with them.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

So especially back in the day, like they weren't calling Metro.

[Host]

They were like, no, they were calling Johnny two Fist.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Brass knuckles up.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And those from somewhere on the east Coast. Yeah. With an accent.

[Genghis Cohen]

When I ran the strip club, it's kind of funny like, like the guy who owned the strip club was Italian born, you know, lived south side of Chicago. Yeah. Own strip clubs in Chicago. You know, very, very Italian. One of the best business mentors I've ever had in my life. Like, gave me some of the best business advice I ever have. Like, we're still. I talked to him last week and he's. He's got to be knocking on, on 80. I would think he's least in his late 70s, but such an amazing businessman. But this, the stories he would tell about like running like peep shows and massage parlors and in the south side of Chicago back in like the 70s and 80s and like, you know, and even the store. And so when he did that, he introduced me to like this whole sort of group of, of Italian guys in Vegas that were like the old school Vegas Italian guys. And this like I would go to these lunches, right. So I'm just, you know, at that time I was, I think I was like 32, guy from New Zealand. And I'm surrounded by these like guys in their 50s, 60s and 70s, these old Italian dudes and like the stories they would have about Vegas. Oh, I bet back in the day it was just incredible. Yeah, how that city was built was incredible.

[Host]

What was the wildest thing you ever saw? One of those nightclubs other than the syringe and then.

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, I just. The amount of money people spend was.

[Host]

What'S the biggest tab you've ever seen in one of those places?

[Genghis Cohen]

I think two and a half million bar tab.

[Steve Sanders]

Two and a half million?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Wow.

[Host]

Is there two and a half million dollars worth of liquor in that fucking place?

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

What? What in the.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, if you're ordering bottle service, yeah, eight grand a piece.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, no, they're bottles that are 400,000, 500,000.

[Host]

Of what?

[Genghis Cohen]

Champagne.

[Host]

What would it be if you went to a liquor store and bought it?

[Steve Sanders]

200 bucks.

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, this is. That you can't even get at a liquor store. Okay, yeah, but if you were able.

[Host]

To source it on the street, what would the street price be?

[Genghis Cohen]

It'd still be up there, but not that much. Yeah, of course, you gotta understand, I mean, you know, a bottle of Tito's that somewhere like excess. I haven't been there in a while. Long time. But it's probably 800 to $1,000 for a bottle. Then you buy it for 40 bucks. So it gives you an idea of markup.

[Host]

What do you pay a 2.5 million.

[Genghis Cohen]

Dollar tab with black Amex, Usually some with cash.

[Steve Sanders]

Damn, cash like duffel bag, bro.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, yeah, yeah, they. I've seen some crazy tabs. Like, you know, I mean, I mean, I know you guys have probably seen the movie Hangover.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

But like some of that shit happens. Like, like, like, like I know an Arab, an Arab client came to town and he told one of the nightclub owners, hey, you know, if you have a tiger in my room, when I come to Vegas, I'll spend. I know what it was. 2 million, 1 million, 3 million, whatever hell it was when he got there, there was a tiger in his room.

[Host]

Why didn't he just have get a pet tiger where he lives? Save a couple million dollars?

[Genghis Cohen]

These people have.

[Steve Sanders]

They're not worth seven.

[Genghis Cohen]

So I mean, you know, you've got cocktail waitresses. The biggest tip I've ever heard of that. Well, semi witnessed because I was at the table and my buddy told me what he tipped was $275,000 for a tip. Well, that's the biggest tip I've seen to a cocktail waitress.

[Host]

How much of that would she actually get?

[Genghis Cohen]

It's pooled.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So, you know, so it goes to everybody.

[Steve Sanders]

That's way rough.

[Genghis Cohen]

But, but the biggest tip I've personally ever seen was a buddy of mine and he was gambling, so he's very superstitious. And no matter what happens, he always tips 20%. So we were at the Venetian and he won four and a half million. So he tipped $900,000 to the dealer.

[Host]

Is that pooled as well?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, like, we're walking.

[Host]

Leaf man.

[Genghis Cohen]

We're walking out of the Venetian. That's my Mongolian buddy. And we're walking out of the Venetian and literally, like, people. Like, people are coming out from behind the table to shake his hand. And all the dealers are clapping.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, because I. I forget. Like, I forget how much they made, but each one of them, it's like 20 or 30 grand each. Out of that. It was. It was some number. I can't remember how this felt good for them. Yeah, yeah. But it's all between the pit bosses and stuff. But, I mean, they'll have competitions. They'll have, like, a big high roller from England and a big high roller from UAE and maybe a big Russian high roller. And they'll have a comp. They'll have, like, a big Russian flag up and a big, you know, flag. And then they make the guys, like, these beautiful silk robes and boxing gloves, and they have, like, this. Who can spend the most money in four hours at the club and all well over a million dollar tips.

[Host]

Again, we're in the wrong business, Steve. Yeah, I sell lattes at a pretty fixed price.

[Genghis Cohen]

Maybe you should have a. Who can buy the most lattes?

[Steve Sanders]

Is it better than Starbucks, your pricing?

[Host]

I don't know. I'd have to go take a look. Comparable, I would imagine.

[Genghis Cohen]

You have the nicest coffee shop I've ever been. I'm not just saying that, dude.

[Steve Sanders]

Well, look, the coolest.

[Genghis Cohen]

Coolest for, like, forgot. Like, usually when you go into a coffee shop, it's a bit feminine. Yours is not. And no, like, it's.

[Steve Sanders]

I'd imagine, like.

[Genghis Cohen]

And I'm. And it's probably not. I mean, a bad way. It's not a misogynistic.

[Host]

It's feminine in the mornings because Michael does security.

[Steve Sanders]

You probably very feminine. You probably don't get a whole lot of limits rolling up in the. Rolling up in the black rifle coffee.

[Genghis Cohen]

I imagine it's not often I want to video a coffee shop, but, like, it's bitching.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like, it's like, it's. And that's why I said to you, dude, if you put that in Vegas. Holy.

[Host]

Well, let's put one in Vegas.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Trust me.

[Host]

I got the keys to the design. I mean, at this point now, I could. Like I said, I could tell them what works, what doesn't. What you want to focus on the layout. Like, it's. The design is actually turnkey.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

I got some ideas, too. You can switch up also some stuff that I could switch up job.

[Host]

Like what?

[Steve Sanders]

Mr.

[Host]

Triple D Dark desert defense hacks over here.

[Genghis Cohen]

Dude, we could put a little gun range in it.

[Host]

That would be cool.

[Steve Sanders]

And I don't know, I mean, you speak to that, but I can range.

[Genghis Cohen]

In before and they were against.

[Steve Sanders]

Have a cup of coffee, go to the gun range and kill yourself.

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, yeah, maybe not that, but the.

[Steve Sanders]

Liability part of that would be like, I'm not interested.

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, that's a big thing. You know, like. Like we don't just build it right.

[Steve Sanders]

Next to MGV and you're fine. Then you're fine.

[Genghis Cohen]

But you need it in a casino because you need. I mean, you know, when there's like, imagine shot show, how busy would you. Dude.

[Host]

Yeah, you have to put it in the casino.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. You would literally be booked out for all of shot show. Yeah, that would be it. You'd.

[Host]

Well, I like the idea of a content studio as well, because people do travel and I have travel kits, and it becomes inconvenient depending on the type and the quality. You're like, do you want to travel with mic stands or do you want to do wireless shit or fucking tripods or all? I mean, you can go as big as you want.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Or pay 500 bucks or whatever they would charge there and say, hey, here's a full studio for you. Just bring your people, sit down.

[Genghis Cohen]

And so.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, charge it. Like, you can rent out a podcast studio.

[Genghis Cohen]

So we were gonna.

[Host]

I mean, imagine this room that we're sitting in anytime. I'm not doing a podcast. I mean, I would, of course, task Michael to, like, be here to make sure they're not making gay porn on the fucking table.

[Genghis Cohen]

That'd help.

[Host]

Yeah, but like, it's. I mean, we'll. We'll talk for a couple hours today. There's 20 plus hours of it not being used. I mean, why not monetize the rest of that time if you could?

[Genghis Cohen]

So we have. We have one in our. In our office and we. We've just set up to rent it. And they rent for 250 an hour.

[Host]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[Genghis Cohen]

Because so many content providers come to Vegas and they want to do podcasts.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And exactly like you said, they got to bring a mobile kit and they got to bring a tech, and that's pretty cheap, actually. Well, sounds pretty cheap when you're not making anything out of it for, like you said, for 20 hours a day. And sometimes you don't use it for three days.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like anything good, right? Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

So why Not.

[Genghis Cohen]

But yeah, that's. So we're moving offices and we're building an even better one in our new office.

[Host]

So I'm down for the casino coffee shop podcast idea. I'll just put that back in your court to make that happen.

[Steve Sanders]

And I. Yeah, I mean the tricky part would be finding the real estate for it.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, not right now.

[Steve Sanders]

Really?

[Genghis Cohen]

No, because the casinos, like, casinos are kind of at this funny spot where, you know, gaming doesn't generate the most revenue now entertainment does, which is why we're starting to get sports teams now, which is, I mean, the nightclubs make more money than anything that makes sense. You know, I mean, any DJ that's DJing at a big club in Vegas on New Year's Eve, I would think is at least making a million dollars minimum, I would think. And, and back in the heyday, because a lot of the DJs used to come and shit at my, in my gun range. You know, like a lot of the big, like Aoki, Avicii, Aphrojak, a lot of those guys, you know, Anderson Silva, part of his pre fight ritual was to come and shoot at my gun range. So, you know, a lot of those guys will come and, and come to Vegas and they, the money they were getting was insane. Like, like, I know One of the DJs, he's in Holland. He wouldn't DJ at Wynn unless they wrapped his name on one of their jets and flew it to Amsterdam to pick or Holland to pick him up and fly back. Otherwise he wasn't coming. That was.

[Host]

It's kind of an asshole request.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, they're just making like you money, I guess.

[Host]

Man. I don't understand that level of money.

[Genghis Cohen]

And wealth and it's super smart because like I started to like, I got to know these guys because I shit at my gun range and it's, it's fucking the greatest business in the world because like you cut a track and I'm a big name dj. Well, I'm gonna play your track for you and then you're gonna play my track for me. And so they all, they're all friends and they all play each other's stuff and it just, it just boom, boom, boom. And that's how they get their songs, you know, I mean it's, you know, if you like the music, it's great music. But they work really well together to help each other out and you know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Create that, that sort of cash flow.

[Host]

Well, dude, let's get into the important, the only thing that matters. How'd you get into flying helicopters.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yes, thank you.

[Host]

Everything else, let's talk road.

[Genghis Cohen]

Steve's gonna be like, yeah, totally. Now, I.

[Host]

You would be good at flying.

[Steve Sanders]

I, I want him to be good at it.

[Host]

I would start with fixed wing for you.

[Steve Sanders]

Really?

[Host]

Here's what. Okay, here's why I say that. And granted, so I have a good amount of fixed wing time. Very little rotary wing time. I looked back at the, the road ring flying that I did, it literally was. I would show up and focus on that helicopter, the systems, the knowledge of that helicopter and flying. Because I took all the knowledge tests. When I got my private pilot fixed wing, it would be looking back at it. Not that the flying helicopters. It's not hard, but it's not easy. Yeah, it's complex, but it's not insane. But trying to do that, in addition to the basic knowledge test and learning about airspace and radio calls and all of that stuff, I think personally that it would be easier to learn those things in a fixed wing aircraft. That's my personal opinion. I feel like from a control perspective, airplanes are easier to control than a helicopter. Then you layer on the knowledge base on top of that.

[Steve Sanders]

Right.

[Host]

Because for me, I was literally just. I would go there helicopter only. None of the other stuff I had to talk about because all of my. Because you knew it all and all that stuff counted. Like, I didn't have to take a knowledge test associated with it. I knew the airspace and you know, all that stuff. It was a quick oral and I think my check ride was 45 minutes.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, dude. Like, I remember when you first started flying and you get your puzzle. So I was like, oh, yeah. You know, I really, I really have. I wanted to do it. As a matter of fact, I, I was considering. Before I left the command, I was considering going over to Teeny Wee.

[Host]

Yep.

[Steve Sanders]

And getting. Doing all that stuff. And. But after, after you started flying and talking with you and flying with you, you're like, dude, so fucking boring. I'm so bored off my ass. And literally I never pursued it because you're like, dude, this is so boring. And flying with you and stuff. I mean, we would.

[Host]

Those flights were fun because we, I would pick you up and we'd go do whatever we wanted to do.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right.

[Host]

Flying for somebody else where they're telling you when to. And especially when I was flying like the Gulf Stream.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

The bigger the airplane, the bigger the suitcase. And you're spending awesome holidays and weekends and anniversaries, not on your own with somebody else in a cool place. But you're by yourself?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

So you're traveling on somebody else's schedule.

[Steve Sanders]

And it totally turned me off. I was like, fuck that. I ain't gonna do it. But, like, with Genghis and, you know, he's like, helicopter pilot. Like, I've always thought it was so cool, just, like, working with tf, you know, like, the little birds. I was like, this thing is. I mean, those things are so tiny. I'm like, this thing was. Like, I could just push this thing into my garage.

[Host]

What will blow your mind? So I look back now. Now understanding how these things fly and what some of these noises mean in vibrations. Like, when you're. This isn't gonna make any sense to you, but, like, you're coming into land and you're like the transverse flow effect where it's chattering where you want it to chatter because it's clean air and dirty air. When they get lift and when they don't, I look back, I'm like, oh, you almost killed us on the razor's edge of performance. And you and I are just sitting back there like retards, listening.

[Steve Sanders]

Like. Exactly. I'm just like. I'm on the helm in the 47. In the back, like, on, you know, ICS, like, listening to Disturbed on the way to target.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. I'm like, oh, that's a weird noise.

[Host]

Anyway, you know, now that I have an understanding. And the little birds being an example.

[Genghis Cohen]

Holy.

[Host]

Dude. They are working because they were rock solid stable. The work they were doing up there to make it that way for us is unfucking believable.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

Unbelievable.

[Steve Sanders]

That's why rotary wing. I've always, like, kind of, like. Yeah. Eventually. Always wanted. And I. I will. That's, like, on. I don't really have a bucket list, but that's definitely on it. But if I did. But yeah, I. I always remember, like, just being on the little bird, especially when I was at Sniper Cell. I mean, like, this thing is so. It's like a little toy, and you're sitting on the. You know, on the skid or on the. On the benches there, you know, I remember going out to the range and it was so fun, man. Go out there and, like, we had LaRue set up, and boom, Come in a little bird. I'm, like, so cool to be able to fly one of these things and have it. Because when it was on the deck, like, we go out there and, like, pilots and stuff, it's like. Like, this thing's like a little toy.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

It's tiny. I could throw that thing in the back of my truck. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And especially like you, you learn on the Robinsons. Like, I started out on three hundreds and then switched to Robinson. I was. Have you ever flown a 22?

[Host]

No.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, fuck that. That's.

[Host]

I have no desire to.

[Genghis Cohen]

That's like flying a fucking beer can with a sewing machine engine in it. I mean, it's an amazing little helicopter for what it does.

[Host]

Unless you get an under speed on the fucking rotors.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

You will die.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

I mean, you gotta have really quick tolerances. If there's an engine failure, you have to let the engine spin or the rotor blades spin with the air as you fall down. If you're not quick on it, it will go so slow, it'll stop. And then you can imagine. Yeah, no, it won't stall. The rotor will stop. And you can imagine the flight characteristics of a helicopter without a rotor blade spinning.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, not good. Not good.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So when I started out at four years old, my dad took me to this county fair in New Zealand. And we went in an Old Bell 47, you know, the old MASH helicopter, and that was it. I've sold like, that's it. I'm gonna fly helicopters. That's it. So when I was. When I was probably 16, I think. Another long story I'll tell you over dinner, because it's a too long a story for this, but my father was very tight with the Israelis, for want of a better term. So he got me in because my last name, my real. My very close to Khan, but it's Cohen, which obviously is a very Jewish name. So. Yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm not. I'm actually not Jew. But my father was. I'll tell you the whole story. But long story short, he'd done a lot of things for the state of Israel when he was a naval officer in the Second World War. And at the end of the Second World War, he did a lot of stuff for the forming of the state of Israel. So he had a lot of good friends in Israel. Anyway, he got me in to be a helicopter pilot with the. To train to be a pilot for the Israeli Defence Force.

[Host]

Oh, fuck. Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

But my mother was like, absolutely no fucking way. So he can fly. She goes. She goes, no problem. But he has to stay in New Zealand and he can go here. And I was like, okay. So I thought, I'll join the New Zealand army and I'll become a helicopter pilot. Well, I just happened to join when the New Zealand army got rid of all its helicopters and gave it to the Air Force. So I kind of got screwed out of that. So then I just. I just paid and did it in civilian. I started off with three hundreds, then R22s, then R44s, then I started flying turbines and. And, you know, now I fly turbines, as you know, and turbines are the way to go. Yeah.

[Host]

Economically, they're out of range for a lot of people, whether it's from the acquisition or operating costs.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

But, yeah, they're. I mean, not that piston engines fail that often. No, it's just the turbines fail less often.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Well, it's just more simple. Right. It has less moving parts, so.

[Host]

Oh, it's. Yeah, you get the thing spinning and you're good to go, and it's not constantly trying to bash itself apart.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right. And I. I think, you know, so.

[Steve Sanders]

For me, I just like aircraft.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I'd always love flying helicopters, and I'd always wanted to do it. And once you start, you know what it's like, dude, Once you start, you.

[Host]

Start looking at the world different. Like, oh, I could go over there. Oh, why don't I just go load this thing up with my fucking camping gear and go camp up there at that little apex that nobody else can get into.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, let's go check out this lake. Let's go. Can I. What else can I fit here? Fishing gear, Motorcycle? Like, what do we got?

[Genghis Cohen]

It's. It's the most versatile tool to get you access to things that, like, people just don't. Can't normally get or, you know, you'd have to be on a horse for, like, three days to get to. Right. So. So that's really what got me into it. And. And now what we do with the helicopter is we. We have it in a veterans nonprofit, and we actually provide free search and rescue for the community. So we, we support police and we support local search and rescue. And we're just about to get our second aircraft, which is great. So. But yeah, it's great, man. I mean, I love it. I've been trying to talk, Steve. I'm like, dude, I want to start teaching you to fly. Like, I want to start getting you.

[Host]

Like, there's some good aviation schools in Vegas too, dude.

[Genghis Cohen]

He's never used his GI Bill, so. His GI Bill would pay for it.

[Host]

I think it kicks in after private.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, does it?

[Host]

I'm pretty sure it's after private, because I've looked at this a little bit.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Because there's a school in Utah Called ssu and they're an aviation school. And I meet a guy the other day and he was a medic in the Navy.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And he did his commercial license with them. And he said, is. I don't know if his GI paper. Maybe you're right. Maybe he had to pay for that.

[Host]

I feel like as I was looking at this when I was doing my.

[Steve Sanders]

Private pilot, I thought you used yours when you get to San Diego.

[Host]

CrossFit paid for all the.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, that's right.

[Host]

I did pay for my private pilot.

[Steve Sanders]

But initially when you first got out.

[Host]

There, you didn't work for CrossFit. Correct. I just did it at Gillespie Field in San Diego.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. Yeah, you were. Because you're selective.

[Host]

Yeah, because I got. I checked into BUDS as a buzz instructor after leaving the command, and I get there and they're like, hey, we're doing this new thing where there's no winter hell Week this year. Okay, that's super dumb. But yeah, also, what does that mean for me? Well, we don't have a class for you for four months because you're in second phase.

[Steve Sanders]

So.

[Host]

So, okay, so what do I do here? They're like, check in once a week. And I was driving home by Gillespie Field in San Diego and I look up on the fucking freeway and there's an airplane that looked like it was about to crash. And I was like, fuck it. That looks interesting. Took a left hand turn, did an intro flight and then just started flying. Paid for it on my own. And then afterwards, I had not flown for a couple of years when Glassman hit me up and was like, hey, here's the credit card. Go get all your licenses and all that stuff. And I was like, okay, yeah, so it was like, private. So what are your instruments?

[Steve Sanders]

What are you guys thoughts on the, on the new. These new, like, drones that you can get in and jump in and fly around.

[Host]

Like, that's a drone that you can get in. What are you talking about?

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah, yeah, these drones now you can basically jump in this thing.

[Host]

I thought you were talking about the Ukrainian drones.

[Steve Sanders]

No, no, no, no, no, no. They're, they're, they're, they're out. You can buy one now. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. A drone. Well, you basically, you sit in this thing and it's four blades. Yeah, you sit in it and basically fly this thing around.

[Host]

Would that even be considered a drone? I feel like the FAA would certify that as an aircraft of some kind.

[Steve Sanders]

It is, it is. But you're like, all you need Is your recreational pilot's license.

[Host]

I don't even know how you get one of those.

[Steve Sanders]

A recreational pilot's license?

[Host]

Yeah. I'm sure there's a process like.

[Steve Sanders]

So, for example, like, when I was back in air Ops, you know, when we started testing the. The powered parachutes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

With the carts and all that stuff. Yeah. And myself and who. You know, our buddy that we were talking about earlier. You know, we went through and got our recreational pilots license and started to learn how to fly those things because we were testing them for, like, an operational capability. Of course they ended up being. No way. I was just like, I axed that project.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Because. Just because they're so sensitive to like, wind conditions. Wind conditions. I mean. But no, I flew. I mean, we probably ended up getting close to, you know, 150 to 200 hours.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, a private pilot license, fixed wing. I mean, I think the minimums are 30 or 40 hours. Most people, it takes longer than that just because you need the cumulative time. I bet you a recreational license is probably half of that.

[Genghis Cohen]

Dude, we had, you know those guys who strip like fan to the back with a parachute.

[Host]

Yeah. Was it just a written test?

[Steve Sanders]

That's a paramotor. It is written test. So we went through and we got it. I mean, literally, we went through the class, went through like probably four or five hours of classroom. And we took the test. It was what's his face and I. And we took the test. And here you go. There's your recreational pilots license. And. And then we just started.

[Host]

Okay.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, I'm not against people exploring their aviation, you know, passions to their heart's content. Just know what the. You're getting into.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

Everything is awesome in aviation until it's not. And then you better have your dialed in pretty tight.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Because when it goes wrong, it goes wrong.

[Steve Sanders]

The whole drone thing, like, it's, you know, like being inside this thing, it's like, okay, these things malfunction. But there's. In my opinion. And I don't know anything about rotary wing other than the helicopters I've ridden on thousands of hours right in one, obviously, as you. You know. But I feel like this thing, you know, malfunctions. It's catastrophic. I mean, you're. You better have a base rig on.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I don't know if they have parachutes in them or. That's one of my. Cause I've literally got friends who have got deposits down on these things, and they said, yeah, I'm getting delivery like two years from now, three years from now. But I just, I think it's, I just think it's going to be way more regulated than probably, I don't have the airfare.

[Steve Sanders]

That's the thing is I don't have airfare. It's going to raise, regulate that because it's, that's gonna be a show. Could you imagine?

[Host]

There's gonna have to be some level of coordination and restriction because you can't just be buzzing those things around.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like they won't be able to fly over cities. I mean, at least not, I mean, look, a car, which to me is far less dangerous at this point in time. Like, they can't even have these autonomous cars without someone sitting in the driver's seat right now. So I, I just think, I don't.

[Steve Sanders]

Think let alone some dude in a drone flying over your neighborhood.

[Genghis Cohen]

Imagine like some. You're in your private drone and. And all of a sudden there's a software glitch and it decides to fly into an airline above you. Like, there's just so many things that can go wrong, you know, for me at least, you know, you know, flying helicopter, like a plane is a stable platform in the air.

[Host]

It's inherently stable.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Helicopters, and they glide. Yeah, they glide.

[Host]

Helicopters actually glide more than you would think when we started doing auto rotations. And not that I'm an expert in this. Even within our R44, the angle that you look out that you can make it to, it's farther than you would think.

[Steve Sanders]

So farther than like being under a parachute?

[Host]

No.

[Genghis Cohen]

Okay, how about what's your glide ratio in a parachute?

[Host]

Depends on the parachute. I mean, they have high glide parachutes. Depends on the material. It depends on the tailwind, headwind, like all sorts of stuff. Density, altitude. All the same.

[Steve Sanders]

The parachutes, like we jump glide ratio. Yeah. They're coming out of the sky.

[Genghis Cohen]

So on a 44, like I've done a ton of water rotations and 44s, but. And I'm sure there's going to be someone out there who's going to correct me, but I think it's one to six.

[Host]

I think it's about a 45 degree angle.

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, have you done the 9090 rule? I have.

[Host]

You had to stretch it out more. Yeah, we talked about it. I didn't actually do it in practice.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. So it's really, it's actually really good to practice it. So if you get an opportunity to do it, it's great.

[Host]

But he's talking about getting the maximum glide.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. So the most I've done is nine miles at a. From I think I was at 5, 000ft or really? Yeah.

[Host]

I'm telling they're like. So he's at 90 rotor RPM which is the bottom limit and a.90 knots?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, 90 knots.

[Host]

So you're, you're asking, you're pulling up on the collective a little bit. You're asking the helicopter to give you a little bit of that energy that you would normally use for a flare. And you're, and you're pitching it forward so you're trying to get that optimal glide. It's farther than you would think. They don't just fall out of the sky.

[Steve Sanders]

My gosh. So for example, like a, a parachute if it was Wing loaded one to one.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Right. Or maybe even like a 1.5. You're going to get on average, you're going to get either like somewhere between a 1.2 to 1.35 glide ratio.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And obviously the bigger the wing, you know, you're going to get a lot more, more glide out of it. But, but a lot of those factors are in there. Like you know, air density, altitude, you know, wing loading obviously. But yeah, that like 1.9.

[Genghis Cohen]

Dude, that's, that's insane. Have you done like real low level order rotations? Have you done those? Yeah. So that, that's another one that's interesting. Like even at, you know, 100ft, as long as you've got enough air speed.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

You can get it to the ground safely.

[Steve Sanders]

But when you like get close to the ground, I mean are you. Are you actually have enough energy to do a flare or are you moving?

[Genghis Cohen]

So like a Jet Ranger, you get.

[Host]

Old Jet Rangers, you get one chance.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Like made a jeep I've actually seen.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

This old guy in San Jose.

[Host]

They probably flared it, lifted it up and turned it around.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. 3. He, he in engine off, comes down, does an auto rotation, touches the jet range down, lifts off, rotates to 360.

[Steve Sanders]

Degrees and the motor's not running.

[Host]

It just has enough contained energy to.

[Steve Sanders]

Spend in the, in the rotor blades.

[Genghis Cohen]

In the rotor blades.

[Host]

It'd have to be a turbine to do that. There's no way a piston is going to allow it to spin like that.

[Genghis Cohen]

44S, I mean don't get me wrong, 44s are Robinsons are great helicopters. You know, there's a great story. I don't know if everyone like this is a story I was told. I don't know how factual it is, but you can ask the Robinson factory guys. But. So when The Robinson came out. Frank Robinson. Frank Robinson went to New Zealand because he had an inordinate amount of Robinson helicopters crashing in New Zealand. And he was like, man, like, why is the number of crashed helicopters in New Zealand so much higher? He's like, is it atmospheric conditions? Is there something, Is it like. I don't know.

[Host]

I'm gonna guess it was crazy fuckers.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, he knew. He knew. He knew the minute he landed, he said he was in Auckland airport and a guy walked up to him and said, you're Frank Robinson? He goes, yeah, I am. And the guy goes, I'm a helicopter pilot, I fly your helicopter. And he goes, oh, wow. What do you think of it? He goes, well, you know, there's a lot of stuff in the book you say you can't do, and we do it all the time and we're fine. And that's why his hell 100.

[Host]

How it fatality rate was so high.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Wait, what?

[Host]

They were flying the aircraft outside of its designated parameters?

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. Oh, okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like, like, like I can show you videos of guys in R22s with like six deer hanging off the bottom. They can't lift off, so they put the deer near the edge of a cliff and then they lift off and drag the deer and you see the helicopter go boom, like this. And then it just gets enough lift to get out of there.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, that's kind of like, you know, the, the tandem systems. Right. So the manufacturer recommended maximum weight of an exit with a tandem rig. I think with, I think it's like four, like £450 is like, you know, their manufacturer recommended ratings. Like, and we use them in the military. Like we're exiting the plane and our, our suspended weight of our load is over 400 pounds and, and upwards of 400. I mean, we did that deal with the bundle with the bundle with the kill cliff. I mean, I did a test jump because I was like, dude, I've never jumped a 6 foot by 36 inch barrel ever. Because we never had them. We always had like five by 30s. And I'm like, dude, I need to do a test jump. So we went out and we loaded this thing up and I'm pretty sure the weight of that barrel was probably close to £700.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And your shoot was rated 400.

[Steve Sanders]

Well, so yeah, we had the basically same parachute. It was the, it was a TP400.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And 400 square foot. So the wing loading, the wing loading on that alone was like, it was probably at least a 1.5, 1.8 because when Andy was videoing my test jump, he was on his head, meaning like we were falling ass with it.

[Genghis Cohen]

So you were up.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

With a six foot drogue out. Because that's the bundle. Drove six foot drogue out and in free fall. And I. It was. The fall rate was so fast. The drogue was vibrating my body so much I could barely even see my altimeter.

[Host]

That was the opening sequence on that.

[Steve Sanders]

So much. Oh, so. So I really, when I released the drug, it was like it was a car accident.

[Host]

Really.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. And thank God. Thank God that it was an on heading opening. No big deal. Pointed towards the drop zone. Because the toggle pressure was so heavy. I opened up on heading. Thank God I'm flying and I'm trying to like, I'm seeing stars after the opening and I'm like, thank God I'm flying towards the drop zone right now. And it basically flew straight towards the drop zone and made a left turn and landed into the wind. And just the, the barrel was so heavy that I barely got through the whole flare. And the, the barrel broke apart. How fast I was going.

[Host]

Because we were experimenting at that time.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. Because here's the thing. I was worried about this. This barrel was so big that, you know, you're always worried the worst case scenario with jumping, a. A thing that big is it floating on you. So the last thing I want is to leave the plane. And now the barrel is above me. Like now we got a problem. Like if it's as long as it's below me.

[Host]

Fun problem.

[Steve Sanders]

We're going to go doing the next. When I ran the tandem course, I mean, you know, self set Fridays was.

[Host]

Like a big deal to love those videos.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh.

[Host]

Asking people in the debrief like, so talk me through your exit. Like, yeah, I rode that thing out. Got vertical, let go pitched. You're like, cool.

[Steve Sanders]

Okay, let's watch the video.

[Host]

They're two feet back in the aircraft.

[Steve Sanders]

Just like shopping carting. Like the bear they, they released. They let go of the thing before the barrel is even off. Like it's still on the ramp. It's like, like we call it the shopping cart. All they want to do is like let go of this thing and reach back and throw their drug. Like, dude, you almost hit the aircraft with your drug because your feet were still on the ramp and your hand was reaching back, like throwing your drug into the side of the casa.

[Host]

I feel like I was the best problem passenger the tandem course ever saw.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, you and what's his face. Yeah, he would memory get out of the plane. And so at the end of the course, we did this thing, it's called problem passenger. So it basically is like, you know, you had to control your passenger.

[Host]

You take an experienced tandem instructor.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

And the instructor's job is to show you how gnarly it can get if you have a problem passenger.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, right.

[Steve Sanders]

And so we'd take them up and, you know, they'd be getting the gear on. And you know, as instructors, it's so fun because you're like, what's this strap, dude? You're like undoing your chest. No, no, no, no. Touch that. And then in the aircraft, you know, as instructors, we get up in the aircraft, like, we get up and stand up, like, hey, this is the ramp, you know, and they're like, whoa, whoa. You know, sit back down, put your seatbelt back on, and just total nightmare. Like, we would like, we would just like intentionally, like, take our goggles and like, throw them under the seat.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And they're like, oh, my. I have contacts where my goggles at? And they're like, oh, where are your goggles at? And we would just. With the students so much and to the point where some guys, like what's his face would take. He would put split pea soup in a Ziploc bag and have it in his jumpsuit. And like, in freefall, he would take the thing out and just release this split piece soup as if he was vomiting, you know, like, and the split pea soup would go all over the Tanner master's face and he'd go out of the plane.

[Host]

And like, you can problems in free fall too. A non compliant passenger.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah. So instead of like having your feet. Knees together with your feet back, we'd go to the plane, like, just with their feet straight out, like in a pike to try to. Just to try to get him unstable on the exit.

[Host]

And I used to always do the same thing. I would tell the guy who was the tandem master, like, hey, the straps are a little bit tight. Just crouch down here just for a second. Because they're supposed to hold you up. And as soon as they would take the weight off, I would dump underneath them and then lift them up on top of me and then leave fucking cartwheel out of there.

[Steve Sanders]

And then leave the plane. Yeah, leave the plane.

[Host]

And I would like be bent over and they're like, ah. And we would just. And you're never supposed to bring your hands in front of students. And they do. And I would just grab a hold of their hands. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

It was so funny because, like, that was actually part of the jump brief. Like, okay, you know, emergency procedures. All right, you're down at. You know, you're down at the bottom end, and you reach in and your. Your passenger grabs your left arm. What are you gonna do? Like, you know, release the. Drove you here or. Because they all had. All the rigs are meant to release the drogue from the right and left. You can cut away from the right and left and. Anyway, so we do all these. These things. And we'd actually do it in free fall, where they would go in. Because at the bottom end of the free fall, you're supposed to put the passenger back into position one. Position one. Position two. And every single time, they'd tap you. Position one. And they'd reach down and every time, like, grab one of their arms ago. All right, dude.

[Host]

Which is exactly why you don't bring your arms in front of the student.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

So every time, like, grab an arm and like. All right, dude. And then you're hoping, like, I hope he goes for a secondary.

[Host]

But I was always paying attention to my altimeter when they did that.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So I want. Just a question I had was when you guys are training, when you're like, SEALs and you're training tandem, is that like, if you're jumping indigenous or you're jumping.

[Host]

So it'd be equipment. It could be rucksacks. It could be. You could jump in a mortar tube and rounds.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right.

[Host]

Whatever you want to fill in the tube as long as you're in the weight requirements. Cool. And then just think of somebody who would be an enabler or an asset who isn't free fall qualified.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, most of the time. As an interpreter.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Did you guys jump a lot with interpreters?

[Steve Sanders]

I have a few experiences.

[Genghis Cohen]

I was gonna ask stories.

[Steve Sanders]

He's got a. He's got a. A good one. He jumped a turp into eastern Afghanistan. Yeah. And dude, probably.

[Host]

It was horrendous. He probably jumping.

[Steve Sanders]

I can't believe the guy didn't have a heart attack.

[Host]

He was.

[Genghis Cohen]

Well, he was just himself.

[Steve Sanders]

So think about this. So anytime this. So Andy, like, they're going to jump into this target and. And this terp, like, total indigenous guy, Afghan dude. And imagine showing up and you're like, okay, cool, I'm going on an airplane ride. And next thing you know, and his.

[Genghis Cohen]

Little hat and his sandals, he's got.

[Steve Sanders]

This harness on and the ramp airplane. And the ramp opens up and there's just nothing but Red lights.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And the ramp opens. Is completely. This is night jump blackout. Oh, yeah.

[Host]

Oh, he started. He started throwing up about 20 minutes before the ramp came down. So we got him on oxygen.

[Steve Sanders]

Completely black like the back of the ramp. He's just jumping out of the plane.

[Host]

He's never been in a plane. It's the middle strapped to this dude.

[Steve Sanders]

Jumping into the blackness.

[Genghis Cohen]

And he's only ridden donkeys his whole life and now he's like, yeah, it was wild.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. And they're like, hey, so yeah, you got the terp and I. Every single Tanner master, I was the.

[Host]

Only one who's I think, qualified to do it.

[Steve Sanders]

Every single master, like will tell you I would rather jump a bundle all day long.

[Host]

Yes.

[Steve Sanders]

It all ain't. I'd rather jump a 4 to 500 pound barrel at night on nods in the middle of nowhere than I will the passenger any day. Because the passenger. You don't have to talk to the bundle. It. It.

[Genghis Cohen]

The bundle comment down.

[Steve Sanders]

The bundle is going to be. The bundle is going to leave the plane just the same way every time. Just up to you to get it out correctly. Passenger. You don't know what you're gonna get. You don't know what you're gonna get. You're gonna get.

[Host]

They can have a lot of impact on how your day goes too.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

This is like doing it. I don't know how people, you know, drop zones, do tandems for a living. It's just like, just such a. It's a rough line of work. We, I mean, Danny and I have both done it, but I think in the majority of our tandems are just taking. Making like friends or family or.

[Host]

That's all I'll do now.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. I have no interest in going and just hucking drugs at a D.C. no, absolutely no. Yeah. Nothing against. People are doing that full time, but just at this point. Hard pass.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host]

Yeah. So I'd rather just go fly helicopters at this point.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

What's your dream helicopter 412? Why that one?

[Steve Sanders]

What's that?

[Genghis Cohen]

I just.

[Steve Sanders]

It's not a 60, bro. It's not a blind.

[Host]

Pull up a bell 412, Michael.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's just four blades, four bladed. What's four bladed? Huey.

[Host]

Okay, okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

Twin engine.

[Steve Sanders]

And it's just Huey like the ones in Vietnam.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. That was four blade, four blades. And the ones in.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh yeah. That's my. That's my. If I don't have a budget, that's what I'm getting.

[Host]

I mean, I feel like it's super cheap.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah. You know it's not.

[Steve Sanders]

So what's that bird go for? A couple hundred thousand?

[Host]

I mean, well, you got to ask yourself, is it going to be new or used? New has got to be over double digit millions, right?

[Genghis Cohen]

I. I don't know. I'm not sure.

[Steve Sanders]

You wouldn't go for a Blackhawk?

[Genghis Cohen]

No, no.

[Host]

1.5 million to 11 million. So there you go.

[Genghis Cohen]

You're right.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So a new one's 11 million and it used.

[Steve Sanders]

So hawk is 11 million.

[Genghis Cohen]

That bill 412, 350 grand. And then you got to put 2 million into it.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

Michael Google in there, what does a Blackhawk cost? And then we'll put together a GoFundMe.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, I'm sure you'll be able to raise a couple hundred bucks.

[Host]

15 million to 40 million.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah. So they're not cheap, but you know, you buy a surplus one. I mean, I liked your idea, Steve. You just go to Afghan and steal.

[Steve Sanders]

I remember that. The TV show.

[Genghis Cohen]

That'd be a great reality show, wouldn't it?

[Host]

I mean, if you hit that across the border and refuel. But I'm down for that.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

We had a TV show. It was like called. I think it was called Echo 3, but we had a Hawk out there and I believe the blade hour rate was six grand.

[Host]

That sounds about right.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. That's actually cheap, cuz.

[Steve Sanders]

And. And that they did. Whether the thing flew or not, they did have minimums. They did like a. I think a. A four hour minimum or something like that per day, whether it flew or not. Sitting there on the deck.

[Host]

That's what we had on the six grand C130 that Steve and I rented for a few hours.

[Steve Sanders]

Dude, that. I'm so glad you posted that picture. It's hilarious, man. Like, that was good times.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

So we did my NSC 130. Multiple lifts, 10 grand an hour.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. And we just. Him and I in it.

[Host]

Yeah, totally. And that was it. We were the only two.

[Steve Sanders]

It was ridiculous.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

With our sport rigs and.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. C130. Just for the two of you.

[Host]

Yeah, correct.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Smaller plane wouldn't.

[Host]

So we didn't want to smoke.

[Steve Sanders]

No, well, no, it was a commercial. It was for. It was Steve Rogue. He's like, no, it's got to be a C130. Because when Andy hit me up, he's like, hey, do you want to do this commercials? Like, fuck yeah, let's do it. Of course, you know, the answer is always yes. No, Matter what. No matter what. No matter what it is. And I'm like, dude, does he really want to rent a C130? And he's like, yep, he absolutely wants a C130. I'm like, all right, cool.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

So we had our guys up down there in Phoenix who basically, when I was running the tandem course, like, I.

[Genghis Cohen]

Wonder if most people know, like, how big a C130 is. Like, it's.

[Host]

If you're not, you would probably recognize it. But I don't like the relative scale of having only two people back there. Jumping is just ridiculous infantry.

[Genghis Cohen]

I think you fit a. How many people?

[Host]

Probably 50 people minimum.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

In a C130. Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, I think it's might even be more like a dude.

[Steve Sanders]

You could put.

[Host]

You'll cube out before you wait out.

[Steve Sanders]

You could put a hundred people in the back of that thing, no problem. I mean, no problem.

[Genghis Cohen]

I mean, it's a massive four engine turbo prop.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

I mean, we used to put APCs in them.

[Host]

It's perfect for two jumpers.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, it's very roomy.

[Host]

Our climb rate was robust.

[Steve Sanders]

Very robust. Like, literally, like, we take off and the crew guys, like, four minutes. Like, all right. Yeah, we're going to 13.

[Host]

They'd be like, hey, we're still on the. We're still on the Runway. He's just like, totally, totally.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. And it was just like. Because we. We would. We flew out of Phoenix and we were jumping in Coolidge. So it was basically just a straight shot. So the guy's just climbing and we were already at altitude, like, way before we even over Coolidge.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And yeah, it was. Have you, dude, remember that time? So we landed in Coolidge. So check this out.

[Host]

So given the guy yell to you.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. So literally we're jumping into the Coolidge. And at the time.

[Genghis Cohen]

What's that?

[Steve Sanders]

It's an airfield. Oh, yeah, it's an airfield. And it's. It's an. It's a. It's not. It's a. Not a private airfield like Coolidge is.

[Host]

It's public.

[Steve Sanders]

It's a public airfield. So I, I called up the guy that ran CPS and I was like, hey, bro. Like, we're jumping in there and Andy.

[Host]

And I are coming in.

[Steve Sanders]

He's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. No problem. Well, what he didn't do is he didn't pass on the information to the guys that work there running military jump courses. So Andy and I are, boom. Fly over the top. We open up, and I'm under my whatever. Like, VK, you know, I think I was jumping at 79, 89, whatever. So I land on the drop zone, and this dude comes running out. I think it was Mike, but I knew these dudes. All these guys worked for me in the basic course or the tandem course. And I run out, and I have my helmet on because I have my. My video helmet on because I was videoing Andy. And at land, he runs out. He's like. He's screaming at me. Doesn't know who I am yet. Doesn't know I am. He's screaming at me. And I've got my helmet on, and it's a sticker on the side. It's like on the side of my helmet that he recognizes. And he's like, Steve. And I pop my helmet off. I'm like, hey, what's up, bro? He's like, like, what the. What? Where'd you come from? I was like, an airplane dumbass. And then Andy lands, right? Andy lands, and he's like, what the. What's going on? Like, dude, I called Freddy, man. Like, he didn't tell you? He goes, no, nobody told me, man. I was, like, freaking out. Who the is this landing in my drop zone? Yeah. But he was like, what are you guys doing? But it was the hilarious. We just, out of the blue, like, we're talking in the middle of the desert. Like, Coolidge is in the middle of nowhere between Tucson and Phoenix. And it's just this. Nobody jumps there except for those dudes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

So when we were like, next thing you know, these dude landing under a, you know, 90 square foot parachute, and he's like, what is happening right now?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And they weren't even working that day, so he was really freaked out.

[Host]

Seemed to work out okay. Yeah. I think there's a good expenditure of somebody else's money.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. And he's like, what are you guys jumping on? Like. Like, we got a C130 goes. A what? I go, yeah. C130. Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

What?

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, this is it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Is this you guys?

[Host]

That's me. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. This is the.

[Host]

It's basically just over the top of the desert.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

But, yeah, that's the.

[Steve Sanders]

There it is.

[Host]

For anybody who's able to watch that thing, I would say we were maxing it out for jumpers. For jumpers safety and, you know, comfort. That's maximum. You know, we couldn't have any more.

[Genghis Cohen]

Who is that?

[Host]

That's me.

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh.

[Steve Sanders]

Who is that?

[Genghis Cohen]

I recognize.

[Steve Sanders]

You don't recognize them.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

We did two jumps.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yep. And a Uvang Steve, see this video?

[Host]

Yep. There's some cool pictures of him hanging out off the back. We don't need to watch the whole video, Michael.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, it was fun. That was, that was a fun project.

[Genghis Cohen]

Two of you in a C130.

[Host]

I mean.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, we loved it.

[Host]

It was amazing. So what do you guys want to do with Dark Desert Defense? I mean, right now you guys are doing shooting courses, are you? Walk me through the, the suite of what you guys offer. So level one introduction. What else you guys got?

[Steve Sanders]

So, well, let me back up a little bit. When we first started it, we were pretty much our clientele was it was one on one. Usually more people, like a little high net worth because of the price. So we were training guys that it was all one on one. And our level one course was. Was basically like six hours of training. And then we started getting a lot of interest. But I think that we're just playing around with our price point. So we were like, hey, let's just try. Let's start doing groups. So we did a pilot course about a month ago. And then, so now we're kind of gearing up towards doing like groups and because I think mainly just because our price point, we weren't getting a whole lot of volume.

[Genghis Cohen]

And the other thing too is like, you know, you know, and Steve knows. But that whole train the trainer concept, like we pair people up so, you know, it's so you can learn a lot from doing, but you also can learn a lot from watching. Right? So what we do is we pair people up and we say, okay, we're going to be standing next to this person, but you're also going to critic them as well.

[Steve Sanders]

Like shooting buddy.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like a shooting buddy, you know, and so they work together. And then it gives us also the opportunity to create some unique environments which apply a little bit of pressure. Like one of the drills we do, we basically, and this is one we did in the military, but basically we line everyone up at the end of the day and we say, okay, there's six steel targets. The first person shoots that target and the second person can't shoot their target until the first person hits their target. But then the second person only gets one shot. If they miss it, everybody moves down one target. The person who's on the last target goes to the front, right? So if you're the last guy and everybody hits their target, if you miss.

[Host]

I would miss that shit intentionally.

[Genghis Cohen]

And then everything rotates around so you know that now they've, now they're hyper focus. Right. Because when you, when you're shooting in a line and everybody's shooting, kind of fuck off a little bit, or you can. You're in your own world, you're in our world now. Not only is everybody watching you, but they're relying on you now. It's a team effort. So creating it enabled us to sort of create these environments by adding. By doing multiple people and you really get sort of a camaraderie, you know, and it work. And we found it works really, really well as long as we don't put husbands and wives together. Works great. And, and it's true, dude. It's so true. So, you know, and, and what we've, what we've sort of started to find now is that by creating these things and adding some competitiveness to it. And I've done a lot of things with Steve. One of the. We did a. Steve set up this dirt bike ride where we pre ran the Baja 1000 on motorcycles. We did like 1400 miles on dirt bikes through fucking Baja in seven days. And it's funny, you know, because I come from a military background, but all these other guys don't. So, you know, I could tell like every day Steve was just making it a little bit harder and a little bit longer and a little bit harder and a little bit longer.

[Host]

That's the key, though. Progressive resistance is the key. You can overwhelm anybody at anything. Yeah, those are the best coaches, the ones that always get you right, that you fail a little bit and then you're like, okay, you feel better about it at the end of the day.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And then there was. There was like that on that ride, for example, the very last day when we were riding into La Paz. That was almost a 300 mile day.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And we're talking off road and we're talking like, like most. Mostly two track off road. Like the Thousand Course, which, it's gnarly, it's rocky, it's sandy.

[Host]

Oh, I know. I've gotten satellite telephone calls from people on those courses.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah, that was the one. That was one where my boy got paralyzed.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Literally on the phone, sat phone with Andy. Like, dude, can you get.

[Host]

I'm trying to spin up like international air response.

[Steve Sanders]

I'm like 800 miles south of the border, you know, just south of, of Sonny Nacho and I need med back down here. And he's like, okay, let me see what I do. I'll call you back.

[Host]

But Dan didn't answer.

[Steve Sanders]

But, yeah. So for example, the last day, like I had a Buddy of mine that was sweeping for me, and dudes are just melting down, like, yep, Steve this and Steve that. And this is like the baton death march, death ride down here and all this. But here's the thing. At the end of the day, like. Like we get. Finally got to La Paz. Dudes are like, you know, like you were saying, like, guys are like patting themselves on the back. Like, that sucked. But it was so awesome.

[Genghis Cohen]

And it was.

[Host]

It has to suck for it to be awesome.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And. And what he did, which I thought was super smart, is he like, there's this one section, I don't know where it is, but it's literally four foot sand whoops for 66 miles.

[Host]

Right?

[Genghis Cohen]

So.

[Steve Sanders]

Done by Constitution.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. It's just brutal. But it's right next to a road, so you can just. You can just quit.

[Steve Sanders]

You bail out anytime you want.

[Genghis Cohen]

So, you know, when you're in the military, you know, and they're like. And the DS staff are like, dude, you don't have to carry on. Fuck, it's. You know, just get on the road. Just get on the truck.

[Steve Sanders]

Just slap it in.

[Genghis Cohen]

No one's gonna think any easy.

[Host]

Just ring it three times and have those hot showing.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. No one's. You know, you guys have your version. We had my. I would, you know, we had our version of it. You know, they'd just be really not. These would keep people that are screaming at you for months. Now all of a sudden, they're like your best friend. No one's gonna watch, you know, no one's gonna think less of you just bucking on the truck. Just, you know, you know, go home live, you know, And. And so he set that up and. And it was. Because that makes it even now more of a struggle. Because if, you know, like, hey, I gotta go through the. I just gotta get through it no matter what. And that's that. But if, you know, oh, I can just ride 300 yards that way, and I'm on a tar seal road and I just cruise. And so that added even more pressure to it.

[Steve Sanders]

But then they're like, well, what are the guys gonna think of me? Yeah, right. So there's the peer pressure.

[Genghis Cohen]

So we get.

[Steve Sanders]

We get down. We're like, probably, like, probably only 30 miles out from La Paz. But we're taking all the whole world out on the off road course. And it's probably one of the gnarliest sections. And the sun is just going down. And we're. We're basically doing a road crossing just like Ingo was saying where you could take the road out basically like five miles, hang a, hang a right and you're in La Paz in like frickin 20 minutes. Or jump on the off road course and it's another out and a half into La Paz. But you're taking the man route or you're taking the route. Right? And so we get to this, we get to this spot and guys are like, oh, cool. So everybody shows up at the road crossing. I'm waiting for everybody. Everybody showed the road crossing. They're like, yeah, we're just going to slap it down. And I'm like, all right, you guys ready?

[Genghis Cohen]

Cool.

[Steve Sanders]

Like, all right. So I cross the road, jump on the course, take off. And they're like, dudes are like, like now they instantly hate my guts.

[Host]

They're just emotionally broken.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly. They're like, oh my gosh, like, why can't we take the road and just go it? And I'm like, dude, this is the ride, bro. Like, yeah, you could take the road if you want, but you know, like all the men are taking them the course. Like we're riding, dude, we're dirt bike riding ham, bro. This isn't a street bike ride. And, but, but it was cool because when we finally got into LA Plaza at night, got to the hotel, guys were just like, you know, patting themselves on the back because they're like, yeah, I did, you know, I wrote the.

[Host]

I rode the whole thing, man, because I had to.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Steve Sanders]

But no, actually, ironically, nobody's asked me to do another ride.

[Genghis Cohen]

I have been saying we have to do another ride. But, but yeah, it's.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah, of course you have.

[Genghis Cohen]

But, but you know, I think when you, you know, I think especially when you're retired, I'm sure you feel this like, like when you've left the military. Like one of the things, there's just that, you know how when you're doing something and you know it's fucking hard and you know it's, you know, it's not going to be fun and you know you're going to be miserable and you know all that. But once you've got a free time. Yeah, I had a great time. I actually had a great time on that ride. But you know that there's, that there's a certain sense of achievement. You get by by blasting through a barrier.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know what I mean?

[Steve Sanders]

Making yourself uncomfortable.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Make it like. He says it all the time. He's right. Like just reaching that level of uncomfortableness where you want to Quit and pushing through it. Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure you guys see it. I mean, you know, where, you know, everybody shows up for a course and everybody's sort of sizing everybody else up. And it's usually the guys that everybody thinks are gonna breeze through it. Who are the guys that don't.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And it's the. It's the guys that everybody think will be gone the first day that are there at the end.

[Host]

You know, you feel that in Jiu Jitsu, too. The guys that you look at, like, this dude is bigger, stronger, like, he's just gonna crush everybody. They fucking mentally break. And the nerd Accountant Assassin that you would never think would just be folding people in half. You're looking over like, okay, all right. Yeah, It's. It's the ones that you don't think are going to be the performers that shock you more often.

[Steve Sanders]

Unsuspecting.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Accountant Assassins are real. Dude.

[Genghis Cohen]

In Jiu Jitsu, you must see a lot, like. Right. So you see a lot of, like, I used to teach martial arts, but, you know, you see a lot of, like. You see a lot of that where there's just some people just have it and some people don't. And you.

[Host]

We're not all created equal. Yeah, I know everybody wants to live in this world where we all. We can all do the same things. And I hate to tell everybody, but that's not the world we live in.

[Genghis Cohen]

No.

[Host]

Some people can learn faster than others. Some people have attributes. You might have had a chance of playing in the NBA. Guess what? I don't.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Michael never will. He'll never be a professional in any sport of any kind of.

[Steve Sanders]

Absolutely not. Those are the cards you're dealt.

[Host]

You can be an academic who plays chess instead of doing security at the.

[Steve Sanders]

Coffee shop and sit on the couch.

[Host]

Yes. With his feet up. The last time I was in there, I caught him doing that. Yeah, it's. It's not an equal playing field.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I wish it was. I have more respect, though, for the people who stick with it, who aren't naturals than the naturals who can just kind of crush and dominate everybody else.

[Genghis Cohen]

I think. I think, you know, I was raised under this thing. It's better to have tried and not succeeded than to have succeeded without trying, you know?

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

I think there's a lot of people who don't try a lot of things. Probably just because of the social optic of failure.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which, I mean, I think that's true probably of all of us. To Some degree. But if you. I mean, if people are feeling that. Fuck that, man. I say lean into that thing that's making you feel that way a little bit.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I've mentored a couple of young entrepreneurs. And what does that even mean?

[Host]

Just like, can anybody be an entrepreneur? What if you just want to call yourself an entrepreneur for social media?

[Genghis Cohen]

The way that I explain being an entrepreneur is there are two kids. Kids, right. And they both climb a tree and. And the goal is, is they're gonna fly. And one kid jumps out, flaps his arms, and he crashes to the ground in a heat. He says that that's not gonna work. And the other kid, he just keeps going till he flies, and he keeps climbing and climbing and climbing and climbing until he figures out how to fly.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And the entrepreneur is the kid that keeps climbing and climbing till he figures out how to fly. You know, they usually. They're usually not very good academically. You know, they usually. They don't fit well into a traditional academic role, but they. I just don't quit. You know, people say to me, well, how many things have you failed at? And I'm like, fucking tons of things.

[Host]

They always want to focus on the wave tops, and they forget all the valleys that are in between that actually make you capable of appreciating the wave tops.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. If you take a failure as a lesson. As a lesson in getting to the next level, that's what I think is the best way to do it.

[Host]

I think so, too. You know, how big do you guys want to make the company? Triple D, if you will. I mean, I think we should announce now some summer courses in the Montana area.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah. We're just talking about that today. And that's one of the issues we deal with in Vegas, obviously, because is.

[Host]

It traditionally warm there in the summer?

[Steve Sanders]

Yes, it is.

[Genghis Cohen]

Did you sweat sweats in Vegas?

[Host]

I don't understand.

[Steve Sanders]

Actually, you don't sweat because it evaporates before it even comes out of your body. So why.

[Host]

Why does anybody live there in the month of June, July or August?

[Steve Sanders]

I mean, dude, I'm building a house.

[Genghis Cohen]

In Utah, so I don't.

[Host]

That's what I'm saying. That's what I think a lot of the people do. But the reverse snowbird, I mean, I.

[Steve Sanders]

I personally, it doesn't bother me. I like the heat. But, you know, when you're out there trying to train clients and it's 110 degrees out, you know, the. The level concentration only lasts for about Maybe an hour the most.

[Genghis Cohen]

And then label of diminishing returns. Right.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. Then people are just. All they can think about is how hot it is. And. Yeah, it's kind of like the winter too. You know, you're in the winter. We just did a course last week and a beginner level one course. And, you know, we were purposely taking breaks like every hour and a half just to get people back in the house and like, get them get warmed up.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

You know, refocus. Because if they're on the range and they're freezing as cold, all I can think about is like, I can't feel my hands. It's cold out here. It's windy. It's so, you know, this is crazy. So we purposely would, you know, take braces, like people get. Get warm, refocus, and then get back out on the range again and shoot. But. But that group in particular, they were freaking awesome. That was really good. Best. Great attitude.

[Host]

How far will you guys go with it? Like you say, I've. I mean, there's people who want to just be proficient on a range.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right.

[Host]

Understanding. But like, what if somebody wants to go all the way through, like, vehicle tactics or.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Shooting out of. We shoot through windshields. We'll do.

[Steve Sanders]

We have clients that do that. Yeah, like, we have some clients that are hardcore.

[Host]

So it's a little bit more of a buffet.

[Steve Sanders]

It's like, how far do you want to go? And you know, and we say like, Jason Bourne package. Totally. Yeah, exactly.

[Host]

Yeah, we're Janet Born. I don't want to misogynistic here. I don't know what the fluid version of that.

[Genghis Cohen]

We used to actually, with my gun range, we had a bond package and we had a hot girl pick you up in an Aston Martin and then drive you to get a custom suit fitted, which had a hidden knife pocket in the sleeve.

[Host]

First off, why'd you get rid of this program?

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, we couldn't sell a fucking thing, which surprised me. Like, I thought we sold shit of it. We didn't. And then we build them a custom gun and everything, and then we teach them to shoot it. So it was like this whole thing, but to Steve's point. Yeah, like. Like Steve's kind of designed it so that it's prerequisites. Because the problem is, is that you do like a Jason Bourne package and you get someone sharp and they've never held a gun and they want to be Jason Bourne. I'm like, nah, you know, you gotta. You gotta start somewhere. So you can't do our level two until you do our level one. And it's not, it's not because we're trying to scam you out of more money. It's because you need those fundamentals before we can take you to the next level.

[Steve Sanders]

You know, helicopter world. So for example, you guys can relate, right? You're not gonna, like, in the first week you're not gonna be able to learn how to fly a helicopter and then do backflips in it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

You know what I mean? Not all students, not voluntarily know. It's just, it's, you got to put the time in to get to that level. And we have, we have clients that are absolutely, we've done that with like some of like one of my great friends. Like I've been training him for over three years now. And I took him from literally never holding a gun before. Now he's, you know, doing transitions, long gun and he's just like, he's. Yeah, great. Awesome. So people like that, like they, they get a passion for it and then they, they pursue it.

[Host]

Just like jitsu or precision rifle stuff. Do you do long range shooting?

[Steve Sanders]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Genghis Cohen]

So we have a range go up to a mile.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, we've had, we have, we've had. Clients are like, hey listen, we just want to do all, all long gun stuff. We've built their guns for them, came up like taught them how to zero the guns, ran them through basically a real quick, you know, a two day down and dirty sniper course.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

And, and I think a long term.

[Genghis Cohen]

Goal for us too. One of the things that we've always wanted to do is to actually create a platform that we can take like ventures. Because I think one of the big, the part, the reason I started my non profit is that I was seeing a lot of veterans were getting out of the service and they have these amazing skills. Like the skills you guys have, right? Like it's not like, well, you know, I can, you know, I can kick indoors, I can, you know, jump out of planes. I can, you know, drive a submersible vehicle outside of a submarine. How do I use that shit in a civilian world?

[Host]

You don't.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, right.

[Steve Sanders]

So you serve, you pour coffee over.

[Host]

Over our water, over coffee grinds and mix it with some milk. Here you go.

[Genghis Cohen]

But you know what we could do is we could take ex military guys who, who have some confidence with firearms and we could teach them to be instructors under our program and you know, give them a clear, concise formatted program of learning and they can go and Start their own businesses, you know, and we'll help them do that and we'll. So that's, for me, that's an end goal is to under.

[Steve Sanders]

Underneath our business.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, underneath our business.

[Host]

That's a cool little idea. They're helping people with, with something they're passionate about.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, I can say this for myself personally too. I mean there's a lot of things I'm passionate about, but have no clue how to make it something that would be sustainable from a business perspective.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right.

[Host]

Like the helicopter stuff we're talking about, like, I love it, but. And I'll figure it out.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

But I'm gonna really it up along the way somehow. But I will figure out a way to at least have a net zero cost helicopter that I can fly.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right.

[Host]

You know.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right. How?

[Host]

I don't know.

[Genghis Cohen]

Right.

[Host]

I'm gonna climb that tree a few times.

[Genghis Cohen]

But you know, our sort of thought processes is if we can, if we can have like, oh, there's a guy from Chicago and he's an ex veteran, you know, and he wants to start a little school and he wants to run a course every weekend and we'll train him how to do that and he'll come out and we can sort of set that up. So that's kind of one of our big goals is to do that kind.

[Steve Sanders]

Of like, you know, essentially just, you know, have the company, you know, like us wide, like have, have these courses that veterans can, you know, own and, and they can run their own courses. And it's kind of like a.

[Genghis Cohen]

And we just give them the platform.

[Steve Sanders]

And the platform to give them the, we give the, you know, the curriculum and everything else and they just, they just run it and under the, under our curriculum.

[Host]

Under the triple D banner.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, exactly.

[Genghis Cohen]

Which Steve has tirelessly written. But you know, he, he, he told me about these like these TsCs that you guys would use. Right. And, and, and I thought to myself, tcs the task condition standards. And, and he would, and I said, you know, imagine if we could create something that, you know, I think jiu jitsu is an example. Right. You, you guys have this system and you have a belt system. And in that system.

[Host]

What's interesting though is that the belt system is very different at different gyms. I've asked every black belt coach that I've ever met. Yeah, walk me through your white to black criteria. It's different. Different.

[Steve Sanders]

Really?

[Host]

Yes. There is no, you cannot go online and find a white belt to black belt journey or curriculum. Like if, like this is what you have to do to be a blue belt, purple belt, brown belt, black belt. It's it, it is. There is a lot of overlay. Like there's a Venn diagram overlay for sure. But I have yet to get the same answer out of the probably close to 50 black belt coaches I've asked at this point.

[Genghis Cohen]

Point. Right, so, so that's interesting because what we want to do is the opposite of that. We want to say to go from level one to level two, these are the standards you have to be able to draw.

[Host]

Skill sets on the firearm are, I think are a little bit, they're a little bit more objective. They're, you know, like size and strength matters in Jiu jitsu. Not really much with a pistol. You know what I mean? You're either hitting the target or you're not.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Your shot timer is doing this or not. And a lot of what I'm saying, I'm repeating what my wife says because she knows a lot more about Jiu jitsu than I do because she teaches the evening class she'll be teaching tonight. And she has. It's a mix of men and women, diverse backgrounds from professionals who just want to do Jiu jitsu in the evening to get some exercise, to young kids who think they're the next Conor McGregor. And a young athletic kid is going to beat like a young athletic white belt who's in their 20s is probably going to beat a middle aged purple belt who doesn't have an athletic background. But does that mean the white belt should be a purple belt? It doesn't. It means that their size and strength and probably aggression is, you know what I mean? There's this meshing like there's, that's where the subjectivity comes in. And in talking with her, it's like, yeah, that doesn't matter. What matters is what. How does that white belt do when somebody who is his age, his background, his belt, his time in, that's when you can really see it. So the art form is though a lot of times that person doesn't exist in that, that class. So you have to watch this person's development and figure out how they're doing against other people with all that diverse background and experience and then grade them upon that. It's interesting to watch.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, no, I, and some people it.

[Host]

Takes, I mean they say an average journey to black belt is somewhere between 10 to 12 years and for other people it's five to six. So it depends on how you can learn.

[Steve Sanders]

Well, I mean kind of the same thing with shooting. Right. Like, I mean, for example, you know, like, my son Jay, you like, I have very, very limited time I've spent with him, like, training, like, actually training him. Of course I have. I've done it. But, like, he made such a leap in, like, a year and a half, and it's because of his dry firing. And he literally went from, like, being an okay shooter, and now, like, he can outshoot my clients that I've been shooting with for three to four years, and he outshoots them, and I spend a fraction amount of time with him. And it's just. It's just, you know, and I'm sure it's probably the same with jiu jitsu. Like, some people pick it up a lot faster than others.

[Host]

You and I know this from teaching a lot of people. Not everybody learns at the same rate.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Host]

And our old job rewarded the ability to learn quickly, and that, actually, it upsets people. My journey was a little bit faster than most people's. And all I. Here's the. Here's the key to learning. Do exactly what you're told and nothing else.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Host]

So when they say, hey, put your hand here. I go, like, every time? And they say, yes. I'm like, okay, I'll just put my hand there. I'm not going onto YouTube to research a video of. Well, what happens if I put my hand over here?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

What if I go like this and make it make a duck wing with my, like.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

My theory is. Okay, so you've been doing this a long time. You're the head coach here at the school. You're saying you should always do it like this. Roger that. I'll just do it like that and focus on the fundamentals.

[Steve Sanders]

And that's exactly what. It's interesting because that's exactly what Jay did. Like, and I think his training came from watching me and doing exactly what I do. And it was funny because this weekend we had one of our clients, and she came up to me, she's like, oh, my gosh, I just watched your son do this drill. And she goes, he moves exactly like you do.

[Host]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Steve Sanders]

And I was like, really? She's like, yeah, exactly like you do.

[Host]

Yes, because you model that behavior for it.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then he just dry fires his ass off. Which usually none of our clients dry fire. Dry fire, dry fire. And they're like, yeah, oh, yeah. Sure, sure, sure.

[Host]

It's fundamentals. It's not flashy moves, any offense. For probably the first two or three years, Leah was My first coach, I was. I was doing. She was teaching the foundations course at the time, and I was traveling a ton, so I would do private lessons, and I asked her when we started, just teach me from the absolute worst positions, uphill from there. So it was all fucking defense, which sucks, because you're just getting smashed for a long time, but then eventually you have a defense that's really hard for people to deal with.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

And then you can start experimenting because it doesn't matter if you get into a bad position, like, oh, I know what to do if I'm here. And then you start fucking people up, Up.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, it's interesting because it seems like everything you just like flying a helicopter, anything you do. Fundamentals. I mean, we teach five fundamentals when we're shooting, and they're probably the same five fundamentals everybody teaches, but, you know, and then we prioritize those fundamentals, you know, And I tell people all the time, I'm like, if you're not hitting the target, slow down.

[Host]

Yeah, go back.

[Genghis Cohen]

Go back to your fundamentals.

[Host]

It doesn't make you more accurate.

[Genghis Cohen]

No.

[Steve Sanders]

Nope. It makes you less accurate.

[Genghis Cohen]

Especially you just miss the target.

[Steve Sanders]

Especially if you don't have the fundamentals down and you try to go faster. Like I always tell people, like, listen, I don't care about your speed. I care about you actually hitting the target.

[Host]

Accuracy is final. I don't care how fast you can miss me. I will take another quarter of a second, let the sight settle, and blow your face.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly. And that's what I tell. Like, hey, listen, if you're in a gunfight, if you miss, that's. That's. That's not good.

[Host]

Yeah. And also, don't get in a gunfight. You know, Avoid it. Largely avoidable.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

But if you're in one, you should probably win.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And so you know, that. That's one of the things I think. I think, like, you guys know from just your backgrounds, but it's been really interesting to see that. And we have, like. We had a friend of mine, Christine, she was out on the course this weekend. And, I mean, you just see these people excel, huh? Like, she's just a natural shooter.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

She's just. Yeah. It's impressive.

[Genghis Cohen]

You just. Everything you tell her to do, she does. You know? And I mean, you know, attractive girl with nails and everything. She doesn't look like a shooter. He just listens, and it does exactly what you just said. Okay, Genghis. You want me to put my hand there? I'm Gonna put my hand there, and I. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna teach.

[Steve Sanders]

Females are so easy to teach.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, Michael, how much YouTube do you watch Jiu Jitsu?

[Genghis Cohen]

Not a lot.

[Host]

How long have you been training now?

[Steve Sanders]

Five years. Yeah.

[Host]

So Michael's a purple belt. Probably knocking on the door of his brown belt.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

And we roll all the time. And it's. He's very, very good at Jiu Jitsu. And I would not describe your game as flashy.

[Genghis Cohen]

No. I. Especially after going to that seminar with you guys.

[Steve Sanders]

Henry's. Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And then just rolling with you.

[Host]

It's the opposite of flashy.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's literally just pressure, pressure, pressure.

[Host]

I just lay on people.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

They're like, I mean, why? What. Here's the goal. Only one person can be comfortable, which is going to be me.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Why? How about I make you carry all of my weight at all times? And it just wears the person down.

[Steve Sanders]

Yep.

[Host]

And it doesn't cost me much. And they come. Even if they get out of that position, they're so. Because they have to explode. And they're, like, writhing down there to get out. And then you can let them out a little bit and just to toy with them emotionally. Because you should break them emotionally before you submit them. But it's. It's wild. The. The best Jiu Jitsu I've ever seen is not flashy and dynamic. It's. It's the application of weight and angles and pressure, and it cooks the people underneath. They can try all this flashy. And it's just. There's two energy bars. Your goal is to keep your energy bar up here while theirs is just diminishing.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

So just burning fuel.

[Host]

Yeah. Like, it's literally like, well, I'll just take my knees off the ground. So you're carrying all of my little things like that. If you. When. If you're rolling with somebody and your knees are on the ground, you're applying less pressure so they have more chance to recover. Well, just. It doesn't cost me anything to put my weight on you, so let's just do that, because that sucks more for you.

[Genghis Cohen]

And like Steve said and, like, you actually brought up, too, you know, for us, I think the big thing now for us, too, is traveling. Like, what I'm noticing is, like, there are a lot of people in California who want to do our course, and there's people in Arizona who wanted our course.

[Host]

People everywhere. And you can combine it with destination type stuff. I mean, there's that's what you were saying today in California as well. I mean, Steve and I Both lived in SoCal for an extended period of time, and it. You'd have to get more. You'd have to get away from the areas that we lived more and more and more up, like towards the Tahoe area and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, up here, like literally 30 minutes. Glacier National national park, the largest freshwater lake west of the Mississippi. Down in flathead, Canadian borders, 60 miles away. Idaho's Coeur d'Alenes three and a half. It's crazy.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

And there's four legit seasons and there's activities for all four of them. So just go to town.

[Genghis Cohen]

That's, that's why, you know, Steve and I were saying today we want to. I think we're going to move all our summer courses here.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, dude. Just. We'll just like be here for three or four months.

[Host]

I like it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. And just, we'll just run our summer courses out of Kalispell because, number one, it's a destination. People want to come here. It's, it's, it's gun friendly. That's one thing that's challenging about California.

[Steve Sanders]

Very gun friendly.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's very gun friendly.

[Steve Sanders]

I'm not interested in going to California.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, he doesn't want to do it, but, you know, I was born and.

[Host]

Raised there and I don't want to go there.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, no. I mean, we, we're lucky. We have access to a great range.

[Steve Sanders]

There, which everything gun related there is just such a nightmare, you know, I.

[Host]

Don'T see it getting any better either.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, no, no. But so, you know, for us, like, I think that's a big part of it too now is just like we said to you, you know, we'll just roll up here and we'll post up here for, you know, three, four months. And like, the summers here are fantastic. Right. So, like, that's one of the problems with Vegas. It's like 120 degrees a hot day.

[Host]

Up here in the summer. Mike, what do you think? Peak summer?

[Genghis Cohen]

Like high 90s, maybe for about a week.

[Host]

It'll be in the 90s, but it's not like the Vegas 90s. And honestly, it's usually in the 80s.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, it's like California 90s.

[Host]

Like, dude, remember when he came up for the wedding in August? Picture esque, white, puffy post cloud. Like that's the shit you're gonna get yet.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah. We're out there in, in a full suit and you know, it's, it's just comfortable. Yeah, just comfortable.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And we.

[Steve Sanders]

And flip flops, of course.

[Host]

Yeah, obviously.

[Genghis Cohen]

And so that's what we think.

[Host]

Lee didn't believe me when I was.

[Genghis Cohen]

Asked if I remember him telling me, yeah, yeah, I remember.

[Steve Sanders]

I was like, wait, flip flops? He's like, yeah, suit and the flip flops. I was like, awesome.

[Host]

Really? Really? I was like, yeah, I meant they're really cool flip flops, but yeah. Oh yeah. And then you ran into Ag at some dive store. He said, yeah, totally, dude.

[Steve Sanders]

I went in there like, Jay and I were out with scuba diving. My son Jay with scuba. And I was returning some tanks and I had those flip flops on. And I was at the counter and the guy's like, those are cool flip flops. And I looked at him and looked down and he had the same ones on. I'm like, yeah, like, yeah, they're, they're cool. He's like, you were, you were at Andy's ordering, weren't you? And I was like, I'm looking at this dude now. I'm like, who the are you, bro? And he's like, yeah, I own the company. I'm like, no, no. Yeah, cool. So he started bullshitting and he's like.

[Host]

Yeah, he runs him out of Vegas. The company based right out of Vegas. That's cool. Cool.

[Steve Sanders]

So I was like, oh, yeah, these things are freaking awesome, man. Yeah, it's good to go.

[Genghis Cohen]

No, that was. Yeah, I remember him showing me the, the shoes.

[Steve Sanders]

They're like what, 600 bucks?

[Host]

Those ones were. Yeah, yeah. I think he just sold a couple pair that were about 2500 G. What? Yeah, like white alligator with like some gold on there. I don't.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, I lost mine and I think I lost him in Arizona.

[Host]

Are you serious?

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah.

[Host]

I'll get you another pair. What size shoe are you?

[Steve Sanders]

H. 11. No.

[Host]

You're not 12.

[Steve Sanders]

Well, I'm at 11, but hold on. The ones I ordered, my, my shoe size right now is 11. But when I ordered them, I'm like.

[Host]

Hey, 11 or men's?

[Steve Sanders]

You don't answer that question. But yeah, I, I, I cuz I, I like them. My like fl. Yeah, usually go. I usually go a size up, but.

[Host]

I get you another pair. I know, I, okay, but no, yeah, cool.

[Steve Sanders]

Sweet. Customs. But the cool thing was like all the guys that were at his wedding party, like on mine it had sss.

[Host]

Like engraved on the. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Triple S on the.

[Host]

Where? We've been at it for almost three hours. Yeah, no, it's awesome. Where can People go to find more information or book you guys.

[Genghis Cohen]

So our website. Yep. It's probably the best place to go. Which is your favorite dark desert. Defense.com www.

[Host]

Do.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, you can go right in there. You can look at it all the levels. You can look at the course, book it, pay for it, everything.

[Genghis Cohen]

And we'll have the Montana courses up there within two weeks, so.

[Host]

Which is about when this will come out.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, we'll have it up there in two weeks. So we'll. Yeah, we'll make sure that it'll be up there.

[Steve Sanders]

But in the meantime, we are doing two courses a month.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Cool.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, so. And that all that stuff will be up on our website. And usually we're about like a month. Month. A month or two out as far as when we put. We start putting courses on the calendar, so.

[Host]

Or that makes sense.

[Steve Sanders]

Month or two out. Just to give people enough time to plan and, you know. So.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

Not so last minute.

[Genghis Cohen]

Plus, we're stoked about coming up here for three or four months.

[Host]

How could you not be?

[Genghis Cohen]

Oh, we're gonna bring dirt bikes, helicopter.

[Steve Sanders]

That's gonna be a great.

[Host]

Dirt bikes.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna have it. Yeah, it'd be a lot of fun.

[Steve Sanders]

You can put my dirt back on. So they look up.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, I can't actually.

[Host]

That actually would be fine. Yeah, that's acceptable.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, we'll get you typ rated in that thing.

[Host]

I mean, just show me how to turn the thing on. Yeah, I got it.

[Genghis Cohen]

It's actually like turning. Turning it on is literally turning it on is the scariest part of flying that thing.

[Host]

I got about a thousand hours of turbine time, so, I mean.

[Genghis Cohen]

Ah, you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you got turbine. Yeah. You know what? It's. Well, this is a modulated stat, so, you know, you're watching your tot like you're watching N1 tot.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

And you know, it's. It's funny because people who are new to turbines, does it give you just.

[Host]

The classic double peak. It comes up, down, and then it spikes again.

[Genghis Cohen]

So one engine will double pe. One engine, one. And this is.

[Host]

I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't even pay attention to that. Just throw the gas at it like it sounds good.

[Steve Sanders]

Tires and light the fires.

[Host]

Yellow is caution reds. Like maybe do something about it, maybe don't.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Turbines can be get. They can get a little bit for people who are new to them.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

But once you're used to what you're looking at.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, because honestly, as you know, you're looking at a hot start or a hung start.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Other than that, there's not a whole lot that's going to go wrong. And if you know how to deal with that, you're going to be okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. Yeah. Most people, you know, I mean, like, when they're starting, like, I'm. I'm. I'm training a guy to fly at 105 next weekend, but he's got 3,000 hours of helicopter time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, he's coming out of a five over 600 in. So the guy knows how to. He knows how to fly.

[Host]

He's going to be okay.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, he's going to be just fine. Yeah. I'm just teaching him simple things like how to marry engines and torques and that kind of shit. But.

[Steve Sanders]

But yeah, dude, I need to start going up there with you and flying.

[Genghis Cohen]

With you, because, dude, I invite him up. We. We've planned to go. It just never quite worked out. And we wanted to do stuff like two. We wanted to start doing some content stuff like.

[Steve Sanders]

Like me just basically hucking it out of the. Out of the Hilo with my base rig over the top of the drop zone. Excuse me. Over the top of the range.

[Host]

Top of the lake house, which is where we should do that because over the rain.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

We could do some great content up there.

[Host]

I have like 6 base rigs up there, too. I need to bring your. I got all my. Up there.

[Steve Sanders]

Nice. Yeah, dude. Well, I need to get mine out of the. Out of the closet.

[Host]

Don't pack it, though. If it's packed, just send it.

[Steve Sanders]

You know it.

[Host]

Surprise.

[Steve Sanders]

Of course.

[Genghis Cohen]

Surprise, surprise.

[Steve Sanders]

I'm like, I don't even know if I got a slider on it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Slider up, slider down the helicopter. So, yeah, like. Like, if. If you're at. How high is your lake house? What's the height of elevation?

[Host]

Call it 3,000ft. It's plus or minus. Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So, like, if I go to 9,000.

[Host]

Oh, you could go to 3,500ft.

[Genghis Cohen]

Speed. Oh, okay.

[Host]

For Steve and I.

[Steve Sanders]

Exactly.

[Genghis Cohen]

So do you.

[Steve Sanders]

I don't want to go any higher than that.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like 40 knots. You need me to.

[Steve Sanders]

Zero.

[Host]

You could go zero. If you're gonna go zero speed, maybe we'll take a thousand feet up just to get. Knock the old rust off. I mean, honestly, in a helicopter, if you were going 50 knots, it. That'd be like the most buttery exit for somebody just stepping off the skids. If you go zero airspeed which I love doing that because I know how to deal with it and a lot of people don't. So I can just laugh at them as they're like, ah. Like Tim Kennedy is a good example. He's not good at exiting aircraft that way. But like 50 knots, you would just step off, you'd have a little bit of relative. It'd be like the smoothest transition to vertical.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. I mean, Slater up. Yeah, yeah. Because zero, that thing's not going to do an out of ground effect hover at like 8 or 9,000 and then heat. Yeah, but. But yeah, no, it'd be fun. I'd love to do that. Yeah. Have you guys jump out of your.

[Host]

Dude, we could have all sorts of stuff. There's probably a couple hundred thousand acres of dirt bike trails right from the house. Literally could land the helicopter right there. Yeah. My buddy. I'll have him bring out his little fuel truck so he can get jet A right there at the house.

[Steve Sanders]

Really?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

That's awesome.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah, we'll solve all those logistical issues for sure.

[Steve Sanders]

Totally.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know what I'd like to do actually, if we bring it up, we.

[Steve Sanders]

Just need a packer to come.

[Genghis Cohen]

Like, if you have local search and rescues. One of the things we do is I do a Hilo marshalling course.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Genghis Cohen]

So you know how a lot of these little towns have like, like local fire departments. Like, it's a volunteer. So we'll go out and we'll land the helicopter out there. And they love it. And then we like teach them how to marshal and we give them like a little certificate that they're, you know, a little, you know, because they all have like little velcro patches. Yeah. Like hello, Marshalling. And people love that. Kind of.

[Host]

I am shocked at the number of people who are unsafe around helicopters. Clearly that thing is making a lot of noise in certain areas and things are spinning. Why would you approach that?

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah.

[Host]

Where is your basic human survival? Like, my God, that tail rotor looks amazing. Let me go take a real close look at that. The fuck is wrong with you?

[Genghis Cohen]

This one is when people are getting in a helicopter and they want to take a photo and jump and throw their hands.

[Host]

Totally fine with that. Completely fine with that.

[Steve Sanders]

Well, dude, the PGA courses we were doing, remember? And so we would get out, we'd do hey hos. So, you know, the guys get out, open up and be flying around. Well, by the time they were getting ready to land the. Our whatever aircraft, fixed wing aircraft was taxiing back into the ramp in front of the hangar. And here we go right in front of it, and we've got these. These dudes that are like overflying like the otter or something. And like we get down to debrief is like, okay, what don't you understand about this aircraft on the ground?

[Host]

Spinning blender.

[Steve Sanders]

Spinning meat blenders. And you just think it's cool. Like, yeah, I'm just gonna fly right over the top of it, dude. Like, are you serious?

[Host]

You don't need to be even remotely. It would be like, I'm not an expert in yawn, like yard maintenance, but I know not to spin my lawnmower over and turn it on and be like, what's in there?

[Genghis Cohen]

The number of times I've like had people getting out of a helicopter and I literally. When they get in the helicopter, I brief them. When they're in the helicopter flying, I brief them. And when I land, I brief them. And I'm literally like, okay, when you get out of the helicopter, think of it, you know, here's 3:00, here's 9:00. You do not want to go anywhere behind three or nine. You want to be in front. They get out and walk towards the bed.

[Host]

And every one of your senses should tell you that from the 3 to 9 o'clock position southward is not awesome. And they send it.

[Genghis Cohen]

And if you want a photo, don't. Don't try and jump up and throw. You know, girls love this pose where they jump and throw their legs and hands in the air. I'm like, yeah, you're going to lose your fingers or arms. Yeah, yeah. And fuck up my rotor blades, which I'm probably more concerned about than your fingers, but. But for sure, you know. Yeah.

[Steve Sanders]

I remember years ago when I was manufacturer was going through selection command and they were telling us about. There was a couple, like, I went through green team in 99 and there was an incident where some green guys were coming off, actually they were getting back onto a little bird. And the bird had landed on an angle.

[Host]

Yeah, Pitch roof.

[Steve Sanders]

And they were coming up, up, up, up. The thing being because they're on the angle, you know, the rotors were that much lower and it lopped off like two dudes heads like right off the bat approaching getting back on a lure.

[Host]

Yeah. And those are people that used to be in round helicopters. You just got it. There's so much going on. I'm sure they were on nods at.

[Steve Sanders]

Night on nods, you know, coming up. And they didn't really realize the angle, you know, where it landed, because that shit's.

[Host]

I mean, again, I don't have much helicopter time. That angle, landing stuff, stuff. Holy, dude. Like putting a skid in, someone's gonna be very aware.

[Steve Sanders]

Even, even 47s.

[Host]

Some of these rescue helicopters, the pictures they have of nosing in on snow and the rotor is like, inches from the snow, and they're rescuing people on the sides.

[Steve Sanders]

Oh, my God, dude. Yeah, gnarly.

[Genghis Cohen]

You know, we, I, I. When I remember we were on a. We were doing an exercise, it was a field exercise, and we had this big Samoan kid. He was, it was an infantry exercise, and he was probably 6, 8, and he gets out of the Huey and, and he had his helmet on, but thank God he didn't have his chin strap done up. And the blade came down and hit the top of his helmet. Knocked it off, dude. And you know, a Huey rotor blade is like. Yeah, the cord on, it's like 24 inches. Yeah. Massive. And he, he, he had a, like a concussion. But how he wasn't killed is a miracle. They reckon if his chinstrap had been on, it would have.

[Host]

Have probably taken his head off.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah, taking his head right off that.

[Host]

On that note, what do you guys want to close out with, man?

[Steve Sanders]

Just.

[Genghis Cohen]

I'm stoked to be up here in summer flying helicopters and teaching guns.

[Host]

It'll be cool.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yeah. And, and, you know, like, if anyone has questions, someone think, you know, for me or Steve, like I said, it's like, I'm really just the coffee makers. Like, I do what Steve tells me to do when it comes to shooting stuff. I mean, so, you know, Steve, Steve wrote the course and everything like that, so he's probably gonna answer most of the questions, but. Yeah, you know, no, like, we, we.

[Steve Sanders]

You know, we said our favorite clients are the ones that really have never touched a gun before. But, you know, we take all kinds. Like, if, you know, if, if ego's not an issue, then. Come on, come on. We don't, we don't really. You know, we love people that have never touched guns, and we're actually gearing up to do. I think one of our next courses in the near, near future is going to be female only just because of the intimidation factor and all that stuff. But plus, it'll be much easy for.

[Genghis Cohen]

Us to teach it.

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Make our job a lot easier. Yeah. Not that there's guys out there that are hard to teach, but sometimes, you know, ego gets in the way. But like, our last course we just did, we had a, we had a Pretty. Pretty good dynamic of male, female, and people who have shot a little bit. One thing we found is that, you know, you ask somebody like, hey, you know, have you shot before? And they're like, like, oh, yeah. And then you start getting a little into details. You're like, okay, so when. When was that? And they're like, about seven or eight years ago. So basically what that translates to is you haven't. And it's. They shot it. They're.

[Host]

Which is.

[Steve Sanders]

Okay, their dead shotgun. Exactly, exactly. It's not a big deal. And I think people, they. Sometimes they feel like they need. The answer needs to be yes, they've shot before. And in which case we're not looking for the yes, we're just looking. Looking for just the honest answer. And we're hoping that the answer is no. No, like, I haven't really shot.

[Genghis Cohen]

And. And that's the other thing too. Like, we're really. We're really honest with someone. Someone come. Someone comes to us and says, hey, I want to do your course. And the first thing I think is, okay, how much time can you commit to shooting? A month? Oh, you know, I'll probably shoot once every six months to spy shotgun. Yeah, you know. You know, because it's. Because the reality, you know as well as anyone, it's. It's a. It's a. It's a deteriorating skill if you don't keep it up. Right? So that's one things we do is we try to tell people, look, if you're not gonna shoot, I mean, I just made a gun the other day. It's a judge with a. I've got an optic on a judge. And I just say to people like.

[Steve Sanders]

Revolver, by the way, for those of.

[Genghis Cohen]

You, yeah, it's a revolver that shoots a.45 Long Colt or a 14 shotgun round. But I, you know, if you want to leave your wife with something like, that's not a shotgun where they've gotta learn. It's super simple. They just pull it out, get behind the bed, point it at the door. Someone comes through the door, just keep pulling the trigger till it stops going bang.

[Steve Sanders]

Til it goes click, click.

[Genghis Cohen]

You. And then you got to hit something.

[Host]

Jesus, man, you said it.

[Genghis Cohen]

Yes.

[Steve Sanders]

You said it, man. Nobody with that. Jesus.

[Genghis Cohen]

Perfect.

[Steve Sanders]

I'll pull the trigger. Tur goes click. Yeah.

[Host]

You guys ready to get the out of here?

[Steve Sanders]

Yeah, totally.

[Host]

Right on Y cocktail there.

[Genghis Cohen]

Hey, music fans, there are some great.

[Steve Sanders]

Concerts headed this way.

[Host]

Don't miss out on all the shows.

[Steve Sanders]

In your favorite venues like Deftones at Madison Square.

[Host]

Garden Eagles at the Sphere and Foster the people at the Ryman Auditorium. Tickets are going fast, so don't wait. Head to livenation.com to get your tickets. Now that's livenation.com.