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- [00:01]
A
Okay, I got the red smoke.
- [00:04]
B
Sun runs north and south west of the smoke. West of the smoke.
- [00:09]
A
Okay, copy. West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now. You good to go, Michael? Yep, we're good. All right. I mean here's the, here's the million dollar question. How'd you become a criminal?
- [00:26]
B
How I became you.
- [00:27]
A
Criminal You.
- [00:28]
B
Yeah. So how I became a criminal is I live in the state of Vermont. I built a firearms training institute by the book. And when the government and the law came to me and said, listen, we've redacted your building permit, we've nullified your licenses and we've taken away your certifications to operate a business, I said no. I was like, I'm not going to do that.
- [00:56]
A
Why did they do that?
- [00:58]
B
So that's an excellent question. No one ever asks me. Primarily, I believe two things. One, Vermont is a very anti gun state. People like you're looking right now assumed because is it, It's a constitutional carry state. But ideologically they're terrible with the things they preach. For example, they praise this gun community, they praise this where open carry, we're a second amendment. But in reality, if you look at the current demographics of laws, right now they're trying to make it so difficult for you to carry a gun outside your own home. And a lot of that has been predicated on the case law and the circumstances that I've been faced with. So when they eradicated my rights, my second amendment rights, they went down legislatively putting other sanctions in to either prohibit other people, American citizens, let's just face it, and then make it so that they weren't able to either indulge upon the type of second amendment rights that I wanted to, you know, shooting, whether it be for sportsmans, for hunting, for tactical, whatever it may be. They had just started to implement these provisions as they're doing currently right now on the floor in my state, are to remove guns from anywhere where they sell alcohol, any type of medical facility, school, you know, they just have a long list that categorically is where everyone should be carrying a gun. Does that make sense?
- [02:28]
A
Do you think that people should be able to carry guns where they're consuming alcohol?
- [02:33]
B
So that's a great question. I mean, I don't, I ask because
- [02:35]
A
I know the laws here in Montana, constitutional carry state as well, but you are prohibited from carrying in a bar if you were going to consume alcohol or participate in something that could diminish your decision making. My words, not necessarily what it says on paper. You are Restricted from carrying your firearm in those situations.
- [02:54]
B
You know, I don't consume alcohol for my religious purposes. I do have friends and associates do that. Do, you know, consume alcohol and you know, I don't feel I'm in a position to judge them if they say, hey, listen, I'm gonna go for a nightcap or I'm gonna go get a drink. Now there is a whole nother sector of that. You know, if you're an alcoholic or you're abusing the alcohol. Yeah. Maybe you're not in the right mindset to have in possession a deadly weapon. I could say that about a knife. I could say that about a hatchet, you know, a firearm.
- [03:22]
A
Hatchet and knife don't have the range of those two.
- [03:24]
B
Correct, correct.
- [03:25]
A
Right. So it's a little bit of a bastardization of the argument. I understand where you're going with that. I think a better discussion is maybe you can carry in a bar if you want, but you can't consume. If you're going to go in and consume, then you need to secure it and you know what I mean, secured in your vehicle or somewhere else. Because there is a difference between. I haven't, growing up, I came from a community that. What's a delicate way to push this? Consuming alcohol was a part of the culture.
- [03:52]
B
Sure, sure, right.
- [03:54]
A
I partook, Never had a problem with alcohol. I can't remember the last time I actually had the desire to have a drink. Maybe that's just with age, you know, or caring more about longevity and recovery and tracking your sleep metrics. All these dumb things we do when we're older. So there's, I think a conversation to be had about somebody carrying in an establishment like that versus somebody in an establishment like that participating in the wares that they, they serve.
- [04:25]
B
Correct.
- [04:26]
A
That to me, I think is the more better way to frame the conversation not necessarily through the lethality of a, of a knife or a hatchet because then you could, you could apply a car to that. A vehicle could be a deadly weapon. Basically any tool you want to could probably be used to end somebody else's life.
- [04:42]
B
Right.
- [04:43]
A
So I, I think as opposed to talking about the, the, the, the different levels of lethality, I think the conversation should be around the ability to make clear, level headed decisions.
- [04:55]
B
It's, it's an excellent point. Maybe you should come to Vermont and help, help champion that.
- [04:58]
A
The problem is I don't know anything about Vermont. Can we just put this out there? I can find it on a map. Can you? Michael, Today's episode is Brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. Summer is here, I suppose, unless you live on a different hemisphere. But for those of you, let's say on the northern hemisphere, summer is here. And I don't know about anybody else, but I change my beverage selection as the year shifts. Now, full disclosure, I drink cold brew in the winter months as well because it's the fastest way to get caffeine for me. But specifically in the summer months, I am loving an ice cold beverage. So maybe let's start thinking about that and I'll try to give some suggestions along the way. What I'm seeing right now though on the Black Rifle Coffee website is they have an exclusive D Day drop. That's for June 6th. A bunch of stuff associated with that. They have A D Day 82nd anniversary collection. The most recent exclusive coffee club subscription is the Space Bear Roast. If you can get one of the T shirts associated with that as well, by the way, you 100% should. Father's Day is just around the corner. They're gonna have a limited drop associated with that. And right here on the main website are showing things that are specifically associated with Father's Day. And then of course, the 250th Limited Edition, meaning the 250th anniversary of our country. So they have things associated with that as well. I really like this. Actually, they've changed up the website. They're tranching things based off of the event, which I really like. Blackrifflecoffee.com you can get D Day stuff right now, summer stuff, Father's Day stuff, and also the 250th anniversary stuff. Black riflecoffee.com go get you some.
- [06:40]
B
I get it confused with New Hampshire. It's right next to New Hampshire. Yeah, I get, I switch them up.
- [06:45]
A
I feel like he's not the only one that gets those two. I just want to say at the beginning, I know that Vermont estate. I don't know about Vermont.
- [06:52]
B
You, you're. You're not missing anything. What I'd like to circle back on that, you know, what you're saying makes a lot of sen. And you know, I can agree and disagree with some of it. But what the founding component of Vermont is is that they just take words, socially engineer them, and then there's ambiguity behind it. For example, right now, just that premise of anywhere where alcohol is sold, served, whatever the convenience store. I mean, every time Dick and Harry runs into a convenience store armed, you
- [07:21]
A
know, and there's a difference between a convenience store and a bar, correct?
- [07:24]
B
So I think that in. In that verb, there needs to be selective verbiage. But that's how the state pushes over on folks, right? They leave such ambiguity, such social engineering of wording, and they put things in a categorical phrase that people get confused and. Or they just go, you know what? Let it go ahead and pass, Sandy. Let it go through. And then people suffer on the back end. If there were more advocacy and. Or more Second Amendment organizations that did get involved, you know, with that legislative component, or, let's face it, that educational component.
- [07:59]
A
Yeah.
- [07:59]
B
Like, how about we work out the wording of that? Let me give you a perfect example. For me, my firearms institute, my facility, Slate Ridge, was registered as a state school.
- [08:13]
A
Okay.
- [08:13]
B
Okay, follow me here. Now, in that process, categorically, was I a matriculated curriculum? No. Was I an accreditation? I mean, I checked. No. But we did give people certifications. Or if you came and did Quick Clock, Quik Clock gave you a certification. If you came and did T, Triple C, you see where I'm going? So there was also some ambiguity with that. But the nature of what my property was licensed and zoned for was a school. When I started.
- [08:40]
A
Interesting.
- [08:41]
B
When I started to win my case, the state went and diminished and removed school. Now karate schools started coming and fighting, Yoga schools started coming, welding school, schools that I never even knew had the word school behind it. They came to the legislation and said, hey, listen, this is ridiculous. You're pissed off at this one gun guy, but now you're retarding and retracting our individual success, economically or logistically? Because now you're redacting this word school at will. Right?
- [09:14]
A
And that's where it gets real shifty.
- [09:16]
B
Right? And that's been a lot of my demise, is that, you know, when you look at precedent, when you look at the model of legal academia and the scholastic banter about me, they will say, listen, Daniel Bonier has just been challenging his rights because he looked, read the book and are finding all of these facets that he's eligible for. He's entitled to. He has encroached upon them, but you're negating them. And then the wars, lawsuits, et cetera, start.
- [09:50]
A
Well, let's go back in time. How'd you end up in Vermont?
- [09:53]
B
So how did I end up in Vermont? I was living in New York. I was working. I procured my first FFL in the state of New York. And, you know, I wanted to get more involved with training. You know, I saw a void.
- [10:07]
A
What was your background before that?
- [10:09]
B
So I Don't have, you know, a really robust. I joined the military was not successful. I caught an injury. I went to college before, so I did the reverse GI bill. This is back in the early 90s. I was really excited to finish college, you know, have a degree, join the military, have the military pay for that. That didn't work out for me.
- [10:26]
A
I didn't even know that was an option. They would have retroactively paid for your college.
- [10:29]
B
No. One of the conditions where you had to enlist right after graduation.
- [10:33]
A
Gotcha.
- [10:33]
B
So your gpa, your, you know, your.
- [10:35]
A
They still would have paid for it?
- [10:36]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [10:37]
A
That's awesome. I always thought where when I joined it was 12 for 12. It was 100 bucks a month.
- [10:42]
B
Right.
- [10:43]
A
For 12 months. I think I was getting paid about $106 a month during that time period though. First year in the military, right. Not actually that little, but not a whole lot more than that. And then they would pay for college afterwards. I didn't know that there was a program where they would retroactively pay you.
- [10:58]
B
Yeah. So it was a really robust, you know, opportunity that I jumped on. I was very eager to, you know, I already had this kind of, I don't want to say a tactical mindset, but I was a very strong shooter. Okay. You know, I wasn't.
- [11:12]
A
What branch did you try to join?
- [11:13]
B
Army. I joined the Army. Y. So, you know, I was a strong shooter. I did very good. You know, on my asvab, you know, I've checked all the box. Drug, alcohol free. I was a little bit of an anomaly compared to, you know, in that era. A lot of people were using drugs and alcohol. You know, there was an influx of, you know, the disco era. Things were crazy back then. So, you know, because I still wanted to do something in the gun world. I've kind of always was involved with some form of security, some type of armed work, etc, embracing that. I found a significant void. And that void was in training. Right. And in that training void, my entrepreneurial, my, you know, my endeavors of how can I help people, how can I fill this void? I just, I designed in my brain. I'm going to, I'm going to buy some land, I'm going to build a training facility. So New York is a tough state to have firearms. Although I had, you know, I had all of them unrestricted. You know, less than 1% of people can be in New York City with a, with a firearm concealed. I had that permit. You know, I checked all the boxes. But what happened was, is that no matter where you went whatever venue that you wanted to participate in with training. There was a lot of rules and regulations. I'm sure you can contest that more than me.
- [12:32]
A
We focused a lot mostly on military installations.
- [12:34]
B
Yeah.
- [12:35]
A
So we would travel the US and the world. But you're on military property, so the local or state legislative bodies don't really have that much power or authority, if any.
- [12:45]
B
Right. That is excellent for current active duty military personnel. But, you know, you know, 911 happens, war on terrorism comes, and now you have these private security contractors that are. That are trying to, you know, I'm going to sugarcoat it. Get back into shape, get back to more firearms proficiency, get back to the acclimation of new gear. You know, we got kydex, you know, post Vietnam era stuff went out. New world equipment and gear.
- [13:09]
A
There's better things than Velcro.
- [13:10]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, the mindset changed. And what I found is that, you know, the few gun clubs, you know, I sat on a safety board at one gun club, I was a member of another. You know, the kinetic things you needed to do behind a gun just was not allowed. So either you were going to break a rule or finagle some bullarky to do what you wanted to do, shoot from a vehicle or shoot from, you know, come out of your holster, you
- [13:37]
A
know, or you had to travel.
- [13:38]
B
Right. And. And the traveling part, something I did too. You know, going to Central Europe, going to Africa, going to the Middle east, whatever. It's not very economically feasible. And. Or if you were in a position like many people that I saw, they're trying out for a job, and you're not getting paid for that. You're not getting paid for the training. You know, you're not getting paid for these accolades that will be printed by a printer or handed from an organization that some people may not even know, Ronin in Africa or, you know, some Central European security company. So I was like, listen, I'm going to build someplace that I'm going to welcome everyone. I'm going to make it robust. You know, I mean, I always admired Mr. Prince's facility. You know, environmentally. I saw where he had the challenges. I would never be anywhere near that. But I said, listen, I'm going to get a plot of land, I'm going to build something. I don't know how I'm going to do it. I don't know how I'm going to finance it, but I'm going to do this. And I did.
- [14:34]
A
How'd you select Vermont? Just proximity to New York no, actually,
- [14:38]
B
Vermont and Pennsylvania were two very, very constitutionally carry, you know, very open with firearms. I almost pulled the trigger on buying property in Pennsylvania, which to this day I wish I did. But, you know, Pennsylvania still had small counties or municipalities that wanted you to have a CCW concealed carry weapons permit. And I wasn't happy with that. Vermont exclusively did not. So I ultimately put all my attention into Vermont. And, you know, the piece of land that I purchased, I don't know what or if you know any about it. I purchased a piece of land butted up to the largest quarry in the world.
- [15:20]
A
I did not know that.
- [15:21]
B
Yeah. So my property butts the largest slate quarry in the United States. But in the slate museum, it's the largest slate quarry in the world.
- [15:31]
A
Was that beneficial to what you were trying to build or just accidental?
- [15:35]
B
In the beginning, it was accidental, but then I got. I received a declassified army range building schematic. It was a complete diary. And when I was really looking and admiring all the matrix into building this, one of the categories to meet and exceed a military standard was to make sure that your projectile would not be able to touch civilization within five miles. I don't know if you knew that.
- [16:00]
A
Yeah. The range.
- [16:00]
B
Yeah. Okay. So I was able to do that in the sense that, listen, number one, the mountains, they call them slag piles, which are like mountains. It's the waste slate. Those piles went almost to the peak of my natural topography on my land.
- [16:17]
A
Wow.
- [16:18]
B
Yeah. So, you know, when you traverse switchbacks and whatever to get onto my land, I'm at the highest plateau in my community. Everyone is beneath my piece of real estate. Then you went down, you know, a couple hundred feet, 160ft, 200ft, depending on which range. And then you would exercise, you know, you would have your training evolutions in there. So my berms that we constructed were 27ft tall. But you're some shitbag or a bad shot or an accident happens, which we, which we welcomed, come and make the mistakes here. Unequivocally. Unequivocally. Your round was captured on my land. And that was then moved from accident to like, wow, these are the greatest neighbors in the world. Because if somehow you went over my berm, over my hills, in. In topography, you went into slate. Yeah, yeah.
- [17:12]
A
What was it about in Pennsylvania, their requirement to have a CCW that you didn't enjoy?
- [17:17]
B
Well, a lot of the folks that I was wanting to welcome would be coming from which my hypothetical was, is like, you know, colleagues I worked with New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, those folks already came. Came or were coming from a stressful firearms environment. And, and I'm saying that in my own words. I'm not categorizing whatever procurement process you have to go through in New York, New Jersey, Connect. Cause I had all those pistols, so I know the process, but it's a tumultuous process.
- [17:46]
A
What makes it tumultuous?
- [17:47]
B
Background check classes. You know, you go, you go to a whacker that's like, you know, whacker, a guy that has no firearm skills. He just gets a couple NRA certifications and he's trying to tell you and he's going to grade you and he's going to evaluate you and charge you hundreds of dollars.
- [18:03]
A
That's a requirement in those states to purchase a firearm.
- [18:06]
B
Yes.
- [18:07]
A
Yeah, I mean the background check is everybody.
- [18:10]
B
No, I'm, I'm 100. As an FFL, I was very robust.
- [18:14]
A
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So the background check. Got it. What else was there? So you had to go to. What did you call him? A whacker.
- [18:19]
B
Whacker.
- [18:19]
A
Yeah, you know, I know a whacker. I actually think that's his new nickname. Thank you for that.
- [18:25]
B
You're very welcome. Yeah, thank you. Don't hold it against me.
- [18:28]
A
Don't you feel like it fits?
- [18:30]
B
Yeah, I like it.
- [18:30]
A
It's a pretty good one. Oh, the fact that he likes it makes it less likely that I'll use it.
- [18:34]
B
You know what was scary for me and I'm just speaking from fact in my own like once a year I have to go to Massachusetts to One Quincy Plaza to renew my, my concealed carries weapons permit. And once a year. Yeah, once a year as a non resident. If I was a resident, it would be like in New York, in my county's lifetime. Okay, okay. But at that point there would always be a position. And I'm not judgmental, but like a 20 year old intern that was like, Mr. Banier, we'll let you know in six weeks if you qualify or not. In that constitutional threat was always like that toxic masculinity. Like it was infuriating to me. But that's across the board. Same thing in New Jersey. Like, you know, you go in and say the thing, we'll let you know if you're eligible. They change the verbiage, but we'll let you know if you qualify. We'll let you know if you meet our standards.
- [19:26]
A
Do you think it's unreasonable for people to meet standards?
- [19:29]
B
I think as a constitutionalist, if you are an American citizen. You are not in a protected class. You should be able to have your Second Amendment rights. A background check I'm 100% for. But I think any other questions, commentary around that are completely inappropriate. That's why less than 1% of 8.1 million New York City residents have a firearms permit. Because when I went there, it was, you know, the lady was like, you sure you want to give me these $500, Mr. Banya? Because it's going to be a hard. No.
- [20:05]
A
California's like that, too, where it was when I lived there.
- [20:07]
B
Right. So that projection, that negativity, that premeditation, because, you know, it's like freedom of speech. Like, I look at some of the Constitution a little bit differently. And, you know, I. I just personally found that because, you know, I sent hundreds, if not thousands of people everywhere to get permits. And I would always tell them, listen, stay dedicated. Stay steadfast to your constitutional beliefs. You will receive that permit. Don't get, you know, knocked down. Don't get beat up that, you know, you know, the instructor is a Glock 19 and you choose a Smith and Wesson or a Taurus or whatever. Like, you see what I'm saying? Like, a lot of that, that commentary was not really predicated on if you deserve a firearms or not. You know, I mean, I have people that I socialize with that don't have guns, but they have the permit because they just wanted to be that person to get the permit.
- [21:02]
A
That's weird.
- [21:03]
B
It is.
- [21:03]
A
I'm not here to tell people how to party, but that's a little odd.
- [21:07]
B
They exist. And, you know, I have a little bit more respect for them because it's almost like the minorities or the gays and lesbians that come to Vermont or would come to my establishment, they would say, listen, we're just coming here because we're told not to, or we're ostracized. You know, we may not align with you completely, but, you know, you know, there are gay police officers, there are gay military personnel. There are African Americans and Asians and Hispanics. You know, when the restrictions came or the model, the synopsis was, you know, Vermont's a racist state. I don't know if you knew that. I mean, I think.
- [21:43]
A
Who says that the state says that? Or people say it about Vermont.
- [21:45]
B
People say it about, you know, Saturday Night Live does skits about. There's. There's a lot of commentary behind.
- [21:49]
A
I don't know if you know this, though. Saturday Night Live is not necessarily a historical.
- [21:53]
B
No Show. But some of their skits about the racism there are spot on.
- [21:57]
A
Okay, so does Vermont think they're racist?
- [22:01]
B
You know, I mean, I just put some data in, you know, on my social media and I think the content went in the millions. You know, they're always trying to say they're not, but when you look at their stats. Let me give you the perfect example.
- [22:13]
A
Okay.
- [22:13]
B
In 2022, guess how many licensed African American lawyers there were in the state of Vermont. Wow.
- [22:21]
A
We are so far out beyond my knowledge base at this point.
- [22:23]
B
I'm just going to tell you. Zero.
- [22:24]
A
Okay.
- [22:25]
B
Right. There is less than 1%.
- [22:27]
A
How many applied? I don't have that data because if none apply.
- [22:31]
B
Right.
- [22:31]
A
Of course it's going to be zero. You can't. Statistics are great, but they can also be manipulated.
- [22:36]
B
Oh, of course. And I'm not here to. I don't have the algorithm of all the data, but, you know, I use a lot of data, which I do have, that's peer reviewed, that when challenged, I have it there. But what the feeling is, or what the momentum is, is that it's not welcoming. And, and I'm, I don't know, is
- [22:54]
A
that a broadly held belief?
- [22:57]
B
Well, if you speak to Ku Klux Klan's members or you speak to, you know, generally, but. Right, right. But I, I've had, for clarity, I, I've had to be faced off with them because they're, they're mad at me because they think I'm a Jew.
- [23:08]
A
Yeah.
- [23:08]
B
So I've had, I've had this level of toxicity and, and confrontation with them. But in trying to educate them, you know, their position is, you know, what we do is we set a baseline. You're not welcome here, they're not welcome here. And this is how we mitigate that. It's no different than in my establishment. Right. I was having those types of folks come to my place and when they intermingled in the community, they were completely ostracized. They were called, you know, terrible stuff. They were treated very, very abrasively.
- [23:37]
A
By who?
- [23:37]
B
The folks in the community. The regular. So Vermonters have this term. Right. Are you pure white and are you a multi generational Vermonter? And I've seen people argue.
- [23:49]
A
No, we'll ask you if you're pure white.
- [23:52]
B
Yeah.
- [23:53]
A
I'm worried about the social circle of people you hang out with.
- [23:56]
B
I don't hang out with these people. Okay. That's the thing. Like, I moved from High Park, New York to West Paul at Vermont.
- [24:04]
A
Okay.
- [24:04]
B
Okay. I started developing this land with Colleagues from all over the country and all over the world.
- [24:09]
A
Will you pull up West Paul, Vermont? Michael, I just want to see where this is at so I have better context.
- [24:14]
B
Okay. So I moved to this community. I didn't know anyone.
- [24:17]
A
Okay.
- [24:17]
B
Okay. I had a buddy of mine that was about an hour and a half away that had a small, like, man cave, you know, he's a. He's retired now. He's a Federal Bureau of Investigation. He was a field rep. Can we
- [24:29]
A
get a bigger map than that, Michael? He pulls up a map and has clicked on it with zero context. Can you get a. You are. You know what I mean?
- [24:41]
B
It's hard to find. Good. I got to be careful because he's got the nickname because of me. I don't want to get my ass beat up.
- [24:46]
A
Yeah, but he likes it, though.
- [24:48]
B
It's one T. All right.
- [24:52]
A
I think if you click on that one, we can zoom out a little bit at least. I just want to see where this is. There we go. Google. Back it up, back it up. There we go. Okay. There's Connecticut. That's how I remember how to spell it.
- [25:07]
B
Yep.
- [25:08]
A
Okay. There's Albany, Syracuse. Go out a little bit more, if you would.
- [25:13]
B
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- [25:43]
A
Okay. Okay. I'm getting a little bit of a. Portland is where we fly into for the jiu jitsu camp that we go to. And we head up northeast. All right. Okay. Thank you, Michael. Just a little bit better understanding of where we're at, what you're talking about here.
- [25:56]
B
You know, some other things I have with, you know, other lawyer type podcasts and other environmentalists. You know, I just got some data the other day, and, you know, people complain about Vermont deforestation and the overwhelming presence of people, you know, in Vermont. In Vermont. Right.
- [26:15]
A
What's the population of Vermont?
- [26:16]
B
It's 622,000.
- [26:18]
A
That doesn't sound overwhelming.
- [26:20]
B
It's nowhere near overwhelming. Yeah, it's really a slap in the face and insult. But the moral story is that just as of last Friday, 78%. 78% of Vermont is still heavily forested.
- [26:33]
A
That sounds like A good number.
- [26:34]
B
That's incredible. Yeah, that is magnificent. Like, that's music to my ears. Yeah, but that's inflammatory to others because that's not high enough.
- [26:45]
A
Yeah, but you can't.
- [26:46]
B
Right?
- [26:46]
A
You can't please everybody.
- [26:47]
B
Of course not. Yeah, of course not. But you know, back to the. This, this cultural aspect of these folks, you know, and how they align race, you know, with prejudice and racism. It's because over the years, you know, they're narrow minded. They're not. They're not going out. Like I said to my neighbor one time, and just. Just this very civil argument. I won't even say it was an argument, but a conversation about antibiotics in his cows. Right. I said, Listen, Mr. Hewlett, you have to go out and see the world. He goes, daniel, I went to Connecticut once. That's what we're dealing with, you know, that closed mindedness, that is part of
- [27:24]
A
the world, I suppose.
- [27:24]
B
Right, right. But for me to articulate to him, like, hours before getting to my property, I was on a subway in New York City, then an MTA to Poughkeepsie. Then I got in a car in that I saw probably 1000 different minorities.
- [27:39]
A
Oh, for sure.
- [27:39]
B
And brush shoulders with them and communicated with them in his mindset. That was like seeing ET and it's hard to work with that.
- [27:49]
A
It is hard to work with that, but that is the reality for some people. The stats are really interesting for US Citizens just in general. And how many possess passports and then how many of those who have passports actually use them?
- [28:02]
B
Right.
- [28:03]
A
People are far less traveled than I think that they would estimate for others as well. And that does. It changes your context for sure. Those people are out there. Yeah. There's no way around that.
- [28:18]
B
Right. And I was not. You know, a lot of people will come to me in. Excuse me, in. In fault, like, Daniel, you should have known this. And I'm like, listen, you know, coming from what I would think was a worldly person, you know what I mean? I. I went to a few different colleges. I've been part of several different organizations. I've intermingled and rubbed shoulders with the upper echelons. I've. I've personally bodyguard and protected some of the wealthiest people on the planet. I like to think I'm well versed. But have I seen a community or a group of people that were so close minded, I'm telling you right now, man to man, no. You know, 50 plus years of my life, I never saw a sector, a quadrant, a group of people that were that racist that prejudice, that closed minded that, you know, unequivocally, in my personal opinion, disconnected from reality. Listen, I don't know if Mr. Hewlett has a passport, but only in his whole life of 80 years old going out of the state to Connecticut once
- [29:20]
A
probably doesn't need one, right?
- [29:21]
B
But that is, you know, eccentric for me, for him to judge me of why I'm brushing shoulders with other minorities or while I'm welcoming, you know, this characteristics or this class or this ethnicity or this sexual preference of person to come to Slate Ridge.
- [29:39]
A
When did you start noticing that undercurrent? Indifference.
- [29:43]
B
So, you know, we, we operated a few years in a very clandestine manner. That is a component of what the media was truthful of. When we started to get inquisitiveness from locals, we opened up the property to the layperson, we had just said, listen, you know, whoever you are, you know, you come up, right, like, we're going to open up. You know, we started hosting classes. We were bringing in guest instructors and, you know, we were just letting those folks were the ones that were coming into the community that needed to procure goods and services, hotels, food, petroleum, etc. Those people in the influx of them started the inquiring minds, where are all these blacks coming from? Where all these gooks come? Like, all this negative, negative, harmful rhetoric that came back on me, they're like, Daniel's bringing them in, in. That inflammatory component started the pressure on me because inadvertently people like Daniel just, just restrict them. I'm like, what are you out of your mind? Put a sign up at the gate, Come shoot for free if you're white, you're Anglo Saxon, you're heterosexual. Like, come on.
- [30:55]
A
Definitely don't put that sign.
- [30:56]
B
Right, right. So that disconnect from reality was the initial challenge to the people in my community, which in my community, there's less than 700 residents.
- [31:06]
A
Did you have valid permits at that time?
- [31:09]
B
Yes. Yes. See, the permit process is where the biggest character assassination happened for me. And I want to reiterate here something that, you know, I said to myself, because I never rehearsed this, because I don't know where it goes. But one of the things in my advocacy that I'm doing now is that this activism, this movement, this collaboration with folks like yourself and many others is cause verse, character. And if you or your audience are not, you know, privy to what that really means is that my cause supersedes my character. What I'm trying to do is to get people to look at my cause versus my character. With the permitting process. The permitting process for me was much more robust than any other person because I had multiple federal licenses. Number one, I had a federal firearms license. Okay. I don't know if you have one or you're familiar with them. Okay. But the second component after you legitimize your entity, LLC Incorporated, or dba, is are you permitted to have your Federal firearms license on the property you are on?
- [32:14]
A
So it has to be associated with a physical address.
- [32:16]
B
Correct. Okay, now, now, people, I. I mentored the only African American FFL in the state of Vermont, and he thought he couldn't get it because he was a renter. No, you just have to get the landlord's permission to sign it. Okay? So it is quintessential that those two things are paramount. They're cleared up immediately. You have a name, it's registered, and you have the proper permitting. That permitting is attached to the zoning. Okay. The zoning is the regulatory commission that says yes. You know, you know, maybe it's retail. Maybe it's like I had one FFL in New York, one FFL in Vermont, et cetera. So there's different classifications. My FFL in Vermont was for retail. So the zoning administrator had to prove that. Okay, next comes your sot. Okay. Your nfa. Then when you apply. I had a destructive device permit.
- [33:08]
A
I had a couple standing explosives, essentially.
- [33:10]
B
Yeah. The two or three rocket launcher, but I had standalones. Okay. Whole nother permit then.
- [33:14]
A
I. I don't think the 2 or 3 is a rocket launcher.
- [33:16]
B
Well, you know, in the terms of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, that's their legitimate classification.
- [33:21]
A
That's what they call talking about the 40 millimeter.
- [33:23]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:24]
A
There's nothing rocket launcher about that. It's a projectile.
- [33:26]
B
Yeah. You take it up with them. I'm not taking up with them. Yeah, but I'm just saying.
- [33:31]
A
So I'm just saying I've shot some rocket launchers.
- [33:34]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:34]
A
And it wasn't a 203.
- [33:35]
B
Right. And then when I've got my plastic explosive license, you know, I got a little bit higher classification than the mines and quarries around me. You know, they were.
- [33:45]
A
You make sense.
- [33:45]
B
They were using dynamite. You know, I was using plastic explosives. That was a whole nother tumultuous. Just basically the proctologist was up, you know, working my mouth. I mean, that's.
- [33:55]
A
How is that state or federal?
- [33:57]
B
Federal.
- [33:58]
A
Okay, Federal.
- [33:58]
B
Federal. So everything starts in my world at the federal level. Right. Those license have to be procured federally and then haphazardly. The states always just rubber Stamp it.
- [34:08]
A
Okay. So you get it federally, and then you should be able to, if you wanted to start a business across state lines, drag those with you. Once you have the federal.
- [34:17]
B
No, no. If you go across. Okay, excellent question. When I was in New York, I had a separate.
- [34:23]
A
You had to do the process separately?
- [34:25]
B
Yes.
- [34:25]
A
Oh, boy.
- [34:26]
B
Yeah. And I had all different registries, so, you know, with the Federal Firearms License, your 4473 acquisition book is an acquisition of disposition book. That's for New York.
- [34:37]
A
Yep.
- [34:38]
B
Right. The explosives for New York, That's New York explosive. Vermont. Right. It's a. It's a very lengthy administrative and secretarial responsibility because I've had audits where they came, like, with kids. Like, why? Well, they're like, daniel, we heard there's, you know, you had x amount of C4. I'm like, who's telling you this? Like, there's only two people.
- [34:57]
A
Like, it's a whole I show up in kit, though.
- [34:59]
B
That's just the way they are. That's just the way they are. They're, you know, they're.
- [35:02]
A
They're pointing guns at you or they showed up with gear.
- [35:04]
B
No, they just showed up with gear. They're all tacked. Right.
- [35:06]
A
Because your hand signals, they're like a little gunny.
- [35:08]
B
Okay.
- [35:08]
A
You know, it's. It's.
- [35:09]
B
You're at it.
- [35:10]
A
You're at a 10, sir, we need you at a 7.
- [35:12]
B
Yeah. Okay, so. But no. So that permitting process, that licensing process, that body are completely separate when you go to Connecticut, wherever.
- [35:22]
A
Wow.
- [35:23]
B
Okay. Now, it's not to say that, you know, I'm in New York and I've got a robust collection of some M4s. I need to bring it to Vermont. It's no problem.
- [35:32]
A
Yeah.
- [35:32]
B
I sign it out. Put another same.
- [35:34]
A
You're just talking about. I was talking about the licensing or establishing a business. That's wild.
- [35:37]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:38]
A
Federal and state. State for each location.
- [35:40]
B
Right. So all of that licensing and like I said in the beginning of the podcast, the school, all of those.
- [35:47]
A
Where did. The school. Was that zoned for a school? Because you said your FFL was zoned retail.
- [35:52]
B
Right. Where.
- [35:52]
A
Where was the zoning for the school implemented?
- [35:55]
B
At the town level. And that was. It's actually. It's called classification 17. 17 dash school. That was their terminology. That was their approval process. They give you a category. Luckily, mine fit right in there. But they give you a category, you know, because if you were auto body, you could choose auto body mechanic. You see what I'm saying? So all of that processing was approved. Now, unknown to many, the. The verbiage, the terminology, they all had to coincide. So whatever your FFL was had to be your state license. Does that make sense?
- [36:28]
A
Yeah.
- [36:28]
B
It can't be mom and Dad's, then. Joe blows.
- [36:31]
A
That would be such a nightmare if people were doing that.
- [36:34]
B
So the process is very lengthy. You know, the permitting processes are, you know, challenging. You know, they're, you know, obviously the plastic explosive, the destructive device permitting where the were the most tumultuous.
- [36:51]
A
What do they want to know? What your intended usage is, storage requirements, all of that stuff.
- [36:56]
B
Yeah. Background experience, you know, I'm assuming you
- [37:00]
A
were using this for breaching?
- [37:02]
B
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yep. You know, they need to know that you're qualified to do all that. The housing in responsibility, they're not that strict about it. I mean, you know, you know, I thought it was going to be tougher for me because, you know, slate ridge is 100% off grid, and, you know, my implementations and responsibilities for security were on me. You know, I. I had to have, you know, you know, we had satellite first for security. You know, RCC TV was, you know, satellite based. So we had to improvise a lot of, you know, technical snafus that really weren't prevalent. You're talking, you know, this is 2013. You know, it's a while back, so pre Starlink. Right, right. So there's a lot of technology now that would have really been beneficial for me. So with that being said, you know, I had a lot of firearms. You know, I had a really. I'm gonna brag for me. I had a really good reputation with firearms manufacturers. What I was doing, the momentum and how I was doing. You know, I'd go to shot show or I would talk to a manufacturer, and, you know, they would T and E me a dozen guns.
- [38:16]
A
Sweet.
- [38:16]
B
Yeah. And, you know, we had a lot of. Lot of guns. And when I had. I never had any problems with atf. Okay. I never had any problems with Department of Treasury. I had no problems with the Bureau. And most of the time, when they wanted to meet with me or they wanted to see me, it was just the Class 3 stuff. They didn't care about cans. They didn't care about short barrels. They just want to see. Listen, Daniel. And at one time, they actually had me do something which was completely out of the norm. They wanted me to start another acquisition book because they're like, listen, we want to come to this place. We want to come right up to the class three guns. I don't care if it's a 5,000 or 10,000. Just have them out. Have the book here. We want to get in and out. Boom. That's all they cared about was class three. That's it. Same thing with the Treasury. Treasury come out. I don't. I don't give a. About your stamp. I don't care. I don't want to see. Where's the guns? And we had. We had.
- [39:03]
A
They literally wanted to line it up like, this is what you say you have. This is where they are.
- [39:07]
B
Yeah. We had put rings on them. We laminated numbers. I made it so easy. So the iOS that came out. So explosives were regulated by the Department of Justice in Connecticut. The explosives was Department of Justice in Connecticut. And the firearms were for the bureau's Boston field office.
- [39:26]
A
How often do they come out?
- [39:28]
B
So the ATF would come out once a year. If that explosives came out a little bit more because people. People were complaining about the noise. No, they would just hypothesize. I had a neighbor down the road, Mr. Duquette. He called up and said that I had £30,000 of C4. And listen, the move is you call
- [39:51]
A
him back and say, yeah, but he has 50.
- [39:54]
B
You know, if he can hypothesize, so can I. You know, I. I was really. Because I was actually working. I was on a contract.
- [40:01]
A
How would somebody know that?
- [40:03]
B
You know, but, you know, they have to react. Yeah.
- [40:05]
A
I'm sure you have to remind the mandatory action. I'm sure.
- [40:08]
B
Right. You know, and, you know, in that instance, I learned a lot. We were cutting C4 with a knife. We were cutting debt cord with knives. Yeah. And, you know, this C4 with a knife. Right, of course.
- [40:18]
A
But dead cord. I don't know if I would do that.
- [40:21]
B
But. But those are the things we were doing.
- [40:23]
A
Yeah.
- [40:23]
B
And, you know, push comes to shove, we shouldn't have been doing that.
- [40:26]
A
Yeah.
- [40:26]
B
So a corrective action to seek to understand came down. You know, normally it's handcuff times. Like, they bring someone else with them that's waiting in your parking lot to file charges. Like, they'll lock the place down. They'll get a judge assigned. So, you know, my inquisitiveness of compliance was always like, listen, I want to learn. Okay. Don't cut C4 with a knife anymore. Don't cut that cord with a knife anymore. We won't do it anymore. We don't want you here.
- [40:50]
A
Where'd you learn that from?
- [40:52]
B
Yeah, everybody wants to know that, you know.
- [40:55]
A
Well, it's bad habits.
- [40:57]
B
Yeah.
- [40:58]
A
There's a difference between maliciousness.
- [41:01]
B
Yeah.
- [41:01]
A
And incompetence. And I don't mean incompetence as in somebody's a. A useful idiot.
- [41:06]
B
Right.
- [41:06]
A
Incompetence meaning they don't know what they don't know.
- [41:08]
B
I'm gonna say carelessness.
- [41:09]
A
Sure.
- [41:10]
B
A little bit different. That's. That's a category that I was in, carelessness. And you know, when I realized how inflammatory that was to the Bureau, we corrected it. You know what I mean?
- [41:20]
A
It wasn't like somebody had to have taught you that, though.
- [41:22]
B
Yeah, someone did. What was their background like yours?
- [41:27]
A
That's implausible.
- [41:29]
B
Yeah.
- [41:29]
A
Because Demo is treated very, very.
- [41:32]
B
They were careless, too.
- [41:34]
A
Well, there's a difference between care. I mean, careless and reckless. You can cut C4 with the knife for sure.
- [41:38]
B
Right.
- [41:38]
A
Deck cord is a little bit of a different issue. They have specific clippers, you know, exactly. For those things. And you can, you know, the end of those clippers you can use to create the cavity.
- [41:47]
B
Sure.
- [41:48]
A
Blasting cap and all of that. And for the listener, you may not understand why that is. Det cord specifically is more reactive than C4 to pressure.
- [41:56]
B
Right.
- [41:57]
A
And you can 100. I have cut C4 with a knife many times. The dec cord. You don't want to sit there and saw across it. There's a set of clippers, essentially, that
- [42:06]
B
it works with, which we had. But.
- [42:07]
A
Yeah, but anybody from the community I came from definitely should have known that.
- [42:12]
B
And they did. But, you know, I think in the carelessness, it kind of supersedes your negligent. But I could see both of them combining. Listen, thank God there was never an accident.
- [42:23]
A
Yeah.
- [42:23]
B
And then, you know, sanctions were put into place, policies and procedures were put into place, and it was a corrective action.
- [42:30]
A
Mistakes do happen.
- [42:31]
B
Right. But mistakes do happen. And you know, for me personally, when I made mistakes that were, you know, in a compliance issue or overseen by some regulatory. You know, like at our heliport, we made several FAA violations. We.
- [42:48]
A
Tell me more. So I fly helicopters. I'm very curious now. What did you do?
- [42:54]
B
Okay, just.
- [42:54]
A
Telephone poles right over the top of the pad.
- [42:56]
B
No, no, no. So what. What happened was. Is that.
- [43:00]
A
Is this out at the facility as well.
- [43:02]
B
This at my facility. So back in range three. Our 250 meter long range, which we did the most of the breaching there, we had a heliport on the side. Our windsock wasn't in regulatory.
- [43:16]
A
How dare you, sir? Not big enough.
- [43:18]
B
No. Not long enough. Because we are. Our approval was 152 foot wingspan, rotary wingspan. So we were like. I think we were. So what? I always mix it up. White is 6 inches and orange one of the what? For the windsock.
- [43:33]
A
I have absolutely no idea.
- [43:35]
B
Oh, so I'm not the douche here. Okay, so the, well, first off, the
- [43:38]
A
FAA might think we're both douches. I look at a windsock to determine the direction of veloc. Velocity of the wind.
- [43:43]
B
Well, there is a lot of regulatory compliance behind it. Maybe your audience knows, but.
- [43:47]
A
Oh, do you mean the stripes on the.
- [43:48]
B
Yeah, the stripe.
- [43:49]
A
So you can tell if it's 10 knots or.
- [43:51]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [43:52]
A
I don't know.
- [43:53]
B
Okay.
- [43:53]
A
Probably something.
- [43:53]
B
So our white was not the right. We. Listen. Well, I mean, it's long gone now, but, you know, maybe someone bought it from Amazon.
- [44:00]
A
Just trying to kill somebody out there with the windsock, you know. Unbelievable, sir. Yeah.
- [44:04]
B
So, you know, we got in trouble for that. Okay.
- [44:07]
A
That's an easy fix.
- [44:08]
B
Yeah, yeah. We also, we originally, when we started letting rotary wing aircraft land, we didn't have a fueling station and we seen a lot of people start to complain. Hey, Daniel, we've got to go X amount of nautical miles away. Yeah. So we brought in a very large fuel truck, probably. No, no, I, I, I bought a very large tank. Yeah. You know, and everything was there. But we didn't have our MDS spill sheet.
- [44:38]
A
Yep.
- [44:38]
B
And that was huge.
- [44:39]
A
Criminal.
- [44:40]
B
So we. Right. So we had to get every page laminated, put it on a ring, put it in an envelope, make sure. I mean, it was.
- [44:45]
A
But listen, that ferry time is very real.
- [44:48]
B
Right.
- [44:48]
A
It's so much easier when you can get to where you're going, tank up, and just be ready to go.
- [44:52]
B
So we learned valuable lessons. It wasn't. And I can only speak for my institution, my organization, because, you know, I frowned upon that toxic masculinity. I've frowned upon the whackers I frowned upon. You know, we were there to seek to understand. So when these actions, you know, you know, how dare you, criminal, put the wrong. We were interested and we were overzealous to correct it. I mean, I probably say 99% of the time, we corrected it the next day.
- [45:24]
A
Yeah.
- [45:24]
B
You know, we got dinged. Well, we didn't get dinged, but. So with the Bureau of Alcohol and Tobacco and Firearms, you cannot have any structure near the mags.
- [45:34]
A
That makes sense.
- [45:35]
B
Okay.
- [45:35]
A
Magazines for people listening is where you're storing ammunition. Perhaps explosives as well. It really depends. So they're all different.
- [45:41]
B
Ours were, ours were totally separate. We had explosive in one Area, very jet fuel in one area. Like it was very regulatory. Okay. But what happened was we had a barn, we called it a man cave. Was just, we kept, you know, the stuff to clean the range, whatever. So that was 3,332ft away from the explosives. And that was not a compliance. Now what did we have to do? We had to go and have a sign maker author the code. It was, I think it was explosives. Five, five point and recite the thing that. No, no more than two people can. No, I think it was, yeah, no more than two people could be in that building was. So, you know, we had to put in standard operating procedures. Listen, Joe, get Steve and Kevin, go and get, we got to get, you know, but, but these are the pains, these are the trials and tribulations that I was working so vigorously through and with to make sure that Slate Ridge stayed operational. You know, it wasn't just some shitbag joint where you came in and just, you know, went Rambo style or you know, all of these other hypotheticals and, and you know, really defamatory things they've said about me and like minded folks that came there. You know, a lot of very reputable organizations depended on and utilized Slate Ridge because there wasn't that robust manifesto of rules and regulations. You know, I, I simply said, you came here alive, lead the same way. You know, respect the environment, respect the people that are around here and fight like you're going to train. Train like you're going to fight. I mean, I think it was a simple, you know, rules, I think was a simple, you know, simple code of conduct, you know, you know, no alcohol, no drugs. You know, it was a little bit more extreme because I'm a vegetarian. I said don't bring any pork on this property. You know, if you're going to barbecue, you know, keep it kosher because I've got, you know, Jewish folks here, you know. So, you know, I put some things that people. But they just had to adapt. But the reality of it was is that we didn't charge anyone anything to train there. Right.
- [47:45]
A
How did you pay your bills?
- [47:46]
B
So slate ridge was 100 paid off. There was no debt on there at all. And at that time, 2013, up until like 2019, you know, the sponsorship and when I say sponsorship, I mean the guns, the ammo, the gear was 100 donated. So my philosophy was, is that you come to me, maybe you just decommissioned from the military, maybe you're retired, maybe you don't have the economic vitality. It's not economically feasible for you to come and take a thousand dollar class or this. So I worked it so that you could come and get back behind a gun. No, I didn't give you a thousand rounds of ammo, but maybe you got a couple hundred rounds of ammo because federal gave me a pallet of ammo and said, daniel, disperse it. You know, embrace. Right. Did a children's program. Ruger said, daniel, here's a whole bunch of pistols. Embrace. I didn't pay for it. So I had this ideology which, you know, my lawyers, my accountant, everyone else that, you know, has been mad at me since the inception of. It was like, you messed up. Right. And could there be profits down?
- [48:50]
A
You messed up by not charging. Yeah, well, I mean, obviously every occupation you just listed, they make their living off of charging.
- [48:57]
B
Right.
- [48:58]
A
Why did they feel that you doing it for free was wrong?
- [49:03]
B
They feel that the. The motivational component of that was I was. This is not me speaking, okay? I want it for your audience. This is lawyers. This is legal academics. They felt that me not training was beyond a gift. It was motivating the lay citizen, the general populace, to forge their tyrannical defense to the government, like Daniel's teaching.
- [49:32]
A
Because you didn't charge.
- [49:33]
B
Yeah.
- [49:34]
A
That was in some way leading to a tyrannical overthrowing of the government.
- [49:38]
B
That's actually the word they would typically mutter.
- [49:41]
A
I would love to see the breadcrumbs connected on that one.
- [49:47]
B
There isn't any. But what has happened with Vermont and the way that Vermonter is, they're an extra eccentric individual, you know, they're politically agnostic. They're very, very bizarre human beings. And when they heard that I was empowering people of color, Asians, Puerto Rican, like, the list just went on. Like, they categorically defamed every person that's not pure white and Roman Catholic, the town officials, political senators, Philippa Ruth, you know, Bernie Sanders. You know, we're talking about big names in society you should be hearing on Capitol Hill, in other words. But they had politicized this in. Look what this guy's doing, you know, he's letting people come down there, he's training them, and then he's sending them off into the bis. Well, what the fuck else am I supposed to do? Say check in every six months, make sure you're behaving. Let me see your report card. Like, you come down, right?
- [50:44]
A
Yeah.
- [50:45]
B
And let's just say one of the things about my facility was, is that kind of. With my cause verse character, we didn't put. You're coming to train people. I would talk to you. Are you willing to come down? You know, you can stay on my property. Can you train people? Louis Arbuck, Kenneth Hackathorne, you know, people like, oh, I'm getting a free class by Louis Arbuck. Yeah, you'd come down, you would train people. Those people would get in the class. They didn't pay for anything. It wasn't your image. And I'm not giving offense to anyone because, you know, the Larry Vickers, the Travis Haley's, like Chris Costa was coming, you know, Pat McNamara, like, I respect and embrace all these folks, but are they going to call, Are you going to be able to call them on Sunday if you have a technical question? No, no. Are you going to be able to. So the people that came to support me, I knew they would support the general populace. So when they came to take a class, their heart was in it, their mind was in it, their core values were in it. And I did that because I wanted people to get proficient, I wanted people to get trained, I wanted people to get educated with a gun for the sole purpose that I wanted that right. You know, I, I, I didn't have this, all these accolades. I had zero from the military. I didn't have all. I had to work hard to get to the level of training that I did on my own. Dollar or favor for favor or someone, you know, say, hey you, you know, we're doing XYZ in this military installation. Come on in, you know,
- [52:11]
A
so I
- [52:11]
B
wanted to embrace that and I wanted to really make that economically feasible. And if everyone was on the same momentum as I was like, I'm not going to charge you, you don't charge them. It became the new practical.
- [52:26]
A
I don't see how that leads to
- [52:28]
B
overthrow of government though, because the influx of people were coming so regularly and getting on social media, oh my God, you know, I went up to Slate Ridge and you know, I took a class and my wife stayed out. She rode a horse, they had horses there. You know, my kids got to play with like people were presenting such a position of uniformity, of collaboration, of camaraderie and the local government. You know, these anti gun folks, you know, you have to remember this is not me speaking. This is all, you know, aggregated data. It's a Democratic party. It's, you know, highly, you know, non constitutionalist, you know, they were looking at this and go, whoa, this is, or this could affect, affect our societal control. And listen, they have publicized this. Yes, they have literally publicized that in different motions, you know, different decisions we went all the way up to the Supreme Court when it was affirmed. There was a lot of verbiage, there was a lot of narratives. The monotone was not always with the free, you know, because the commerce wasn't there. We, you know that that was set in the beginning like it's not a business because he's. But the monotone was, is that wow, a citizen went there and did a two day skill builder on an M4 rifle.
- [53:51]
A
H. So what?
- [53:54]
B
Well, for you and me that's normal. But for the anti gun person, the person that doesn't, you know, want the American citizen to embrace their constitutional amendments automatically goes into the negative. Oh, okay, now that person knows how
- [54:07]
A
to run her negative time understanding that. What about somebody who goes to a two day religious retreat?
- [54:12]
B
Listen, my lawyers argued that. We said, we used Alcoholics Anonymous, we used religion, we used many different things. In our arguments at the Supreme Court level they were denied because the anti gun movement, it gives me goose pimples. The anti gun movement is so radical. Right. It's so inflammatory that they manipulate the system to be what you and I don't understand and can't believe is happening. And that's a big problem with, with my story in and around the tri state area of Vermont.
- [54:46]
A
For somebody who is vehemently anti gun like that, who do they call if somebody breaks into their house?
- [54:55]
B
You can see me on TV arguing with a number of people and I say all the time, when anti gun movements in organization would come to protest, I would say listen, let's start at the neutral. Who is allowed to have guns? I'd find who's your leader? Susie Q comes up, purple hair, nose. Okay, who should have guns? Only the police. Okay. You're not anti gun, you're prejudiced.
- [55:19]
A
I mean that's it. Yeah, they're, they're picking and choosing.
- [55:23]
B
Right, right, right. The argument would stop right there. I said listen, you can chant all you.
- [55:27]
A
What was their response to that?
- [55:27]
B
When you 0 really 0.
- [55:30]
A
You would think sometime I am baffled. Sometimes the Internet is the best worst thing ever.
- [55:36]
B
No, for sure.
- [55:37]
A
But you can see people being challenged with questions like this and there are enough people who stumble at that point that you would think that people would watch that and at least think of and develop an answer in case they are ever asked that question.
- [55:52]
B
Right, right.
- [55:52]
A
It baffles me that it does that they don't though.
- [55:54]
B
They're not educated. That's, that's the problem. Right.
- [55:56]
A
They're just, I mean educated and intelligent are two very different things.
- [56:00]
B
Right. That's why I didn't say intelligent. They're just not educated to. Someone could have gave them some political mumbo jumbo, some bullarky to have a rebuttal. But no rebuttal is the defeat.
- [56:12]
A
Yeah. When you say that this class or category of person get guns, but everybody else is without them, you are. You are lining up in an environment, in an ecosystem that can be very heavily manipulated. And it works in your favor as long as the people with guns currently agree with you.
- [56:31]
B
The manipulation is metastasizing everywhere. You know, people are constantly coming up to me, airports, subway, here, there, everywhere. And they're like, daniel, stop hyper focusing on you, you, you. This is happening everywhere. I'm like, right. But I have not been privy to that. I have not seen that. I've not experienced that. And my inner circle of colleagues have not either. So for me in my activism, in my advocacy, me, me, me is to say, listen, Vermont is a beautiful state. It is. I've met some good people and I've met the worst people I've ever met in my life. The problem is, is that historically, right, if you. Not today, but tomorrow morning, you call my town hall, Deb Hawkins will pick up and she will tell you, we have not had a person of color living in this community since 1837. That signifies two things. Pompous and arrogance. When you start with those two components, you are multiple steps behind the eight ball in normalcy. They have designed the new normal, Right? Let me give you another example, right? When my stories first started breaking, I already had some pressure and, you know, confrontations from the Klan, the Ku Klux Klan, okay? We found out that Mr. Edgar Cleveland, our town select board members. So my town doesn't have a mayor. It's five select men.
- [57:57]
A
Okay?
- [57:58]
B
Okay. Edgar Cleveland was the chair, right? So he's the main guy. Okay. We found out, you know, my lawyers hired investigators, you know, we're talking about lots of money here, and said, listen, he's going to the clan meetings on Sunday at 11:30, okay? We get all the data. They approach him and he just says, yes. So we go, I call Fox News in Manhattan. They send up this chick Stephanie. I actually knew the security team. I had worked with those guys. They come up, we get all, everything in the. You can look, you can Google this. And you know, they're like, daniel, you rehearse everything. All I was going to do is call them out, right? The room is packed. My turn comes, I stand up And I said, Mr. Cleveland said, yes, I'm Vermont. Daniel Bonya. Five, four. No. Is it true you go to Ku Klux Klan meetings against people like me and my kind? He says, stands up. Yes, I do. Now, for me. Stephanie jumps up. Her film crew jumps up. We're like it, in awe. Because this is extra eccentric to us. It may not be to you, but it's extra eccentric to me because that's super extra eccentric. Okay. Yeah, because the clan that I know, like a Mississippi, Alabama, Indiana, they're. They're in the closet, right? They're not out boasting and bragging, even in numbers, because they have, like a clandestine hate. This guy just did it on television. Like the local TV was there, Shipback TVs, like, you know, small. You know, they regurgitate the same stuff just in the community TVs. But Fox was huge. We were high five. Community didn't balk. Not one person, zero.
- [59:29]
A
I mean, I think that tells you probably everything you need to know about the community.
- [59:33]
B
I was crushed at that point.
- [59:35]
A
Like, did you ever think of lifting? And again, I'm not saying that there's not huge cost and trials and tribulations associated with this, but did you ever think of lifting and shifting to a different area?
- [59:45]
B
I lost $1.6 million. Now, that's not a lot of money. A lot of people are like, you
- [59:49]
A
know, that's a tremendous amount of money, sir.
- [59:51]
B
I. I lost that money. And I was so, you know, embedded in developing and when I got, you know, so logistically into it, and then the legal crusade came, I was just still to this day, like, I'm. I'm gonna lose everything. You know, the federal government is going to take my land. You know, how. So when I refused, when the judges in 2021, when the judge's motion came down that he voided my building permit, it was a small victory because there was a narrative for many years in the media that I didn't have a building permit.
- [60:30]
A
Gotcha.
- [60:31]
B
And let me back up and tell you how the prosecutor, Mrs. Merrill Bent Bianchi, her law partner, Rob Wilmington, is a partner in the Vermont's media's largest publications, called VT Digger. They own the television, they own paper, you know, print and online. So they're the largest source. Everyone, like, if they're, you know, the 622,000 Vermonters, like, 600,000, you know, get their daily sourcing from VT Digger.
- [61:01]
A
Okay, I bet you the number is way lower than that. But I hear you.
- [61:05]
B
Yeah, I mean, back up even farther.
- [61:06]
A
How did the legal struggle begin?
- [61:10]
B
So the legal Struggle manifests with a very complicated legal. And I'm not going to question your intelligence. I'm just going to give you the. The elevator pitch. What happened was, is that once I got my building permit, which is not a very lengthy process. Okay. Once I got it, several years later, the Warren Switch clan, a group of angry men, formed a group and presented to the town, the Developmental Review Board, a position in a technicality. The technicality is this. When I. Let's say I move near your house, okay? I'll mail a letter to all my budding neighbors, including you. Hey, I'm Daniel Bonier. My dog, my hamster, my cars. Let's embrace one another, okay? I didn't have any beef with my abutting neighbors. So their. Their say. I'm trying to simplify this. Their say from a logistical or a political aspect of what I wanted to do was null and void. Because they didn't complain.
- [62:09]
A
They had the opportunity.
- [62:10]
B
They had the opportunity within 14 days years ago. Gotcha. But. But they. They neglected to do that because they didn't have a beef. But now they found this clause that if this group, the Warren Switch Clan, could get a certain amount of signatures, they would now be in court. It's called Vermont Environmental Court. They would have the voice of one abutting neighbor, retroactive beef. Right. So once the facility got going, once
- [62:36]
A
the momentum started serving, they got enough of those signatures.
- [62:39]
B
Yep. And then. Then they were able to present an opposition equivalent to. If you were my next door neighbor,
- [62:46]
A
even though you had already gone through the process and had had the burning building permit issue.
- [62:49]
B
Correct.
- [62:51]
A
That seems insane, because then what is the point of going through that process and getting the permits to begin with if they can be reversed? Not on a whim, obviously. There's a lot of work that would have to go into that, but it defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place.
- [63:03]
B
And that is why, you know, categorically, within the last probably 12 to 16 months, I've been invited to Libertarians Democratic. You know, the people just outright like Daniel, we don't like you, but we can never let this happen again. And this is where the movement is. You move into my community or anywhere else, one year, two year, three years, you want to put a deck on your house, maybe your parents got to move in, maybe a sim, you want to build an addition. The new precedent is, and this is what's so inflammatory, is that you get that building permit, you do what I did, maybe you spent 5 million, 10 million. The threat right now is something I plan on Telling you at the end of this podcast, is that any investment, they have this new precedent. It's called clawing back. That's their exact for. They claw back your building permit. Now what? You're going to be a Daniel Banier. Yeah.
- [63:53]
A
Now you're in violation, likely, of whatever it is that you're doing.
- [63:56]
B
Right. And that's what happened with me. They said they voided the pill, the building permit. They demanded I take everything down, and I refused to. And I'm saying this on the record, as I've said many times in many different TV interviews, podcasts, I don't believe an American citizen like myself, you don't have to be a veteran, you don't have to be gay, you don't have to be straight. If you're an American citizen and you went through the procurement process of something that's so sacred. Right. Of doing the building permit accurately now. Because there are people that do it incorrectly. There are. And I've had a lot of people come to them like, no, no, we're nowhere. Like, like, you know, I have a guy a couple hundred miles away from me. You know, he, he, he, he permitted his house, house like this last minute. It's like his wife's, like a better view. He went like this. He's getting, he's going down a rabbit hole now. You didn't do that. Mine was exact. You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to draw on parallels.
- [64:49]
A
I understand, right.
- [64:50]
B
I'm trying to really exacerbate how definitively we, we followed all these. If you are in that situation and someone doesn't like you, they don't like your views, they don't like your, you know, your ideological views, your religion, whatever, they can do this. And that's the current movement with a new bill that's on the floor right now in Vermont, where everyone in Vermont is calling on me. Daniel, can you help us get behind this new Act 181, which is very complicated, but they're trying to now retract more rights of property owners. You can't have a driveway, you can't have utilities. You can't have this.
- [65:25]
A
How supposed to get to your house? How are you supposed to power your health?
- [65:28]
B
This is. These are the issues that are so inflammatory that, you know, I'm kind of like, stubborn. My shoulders, I'm like, listen, where were you when they were, you know, it doesn't make any sense. It's always like, oh, my God, is this guy really telling the truth? Is like, how could this be? Possible, but with a little bit of research, you can see how radical and how crazy these things are.
- [65:53]
A
Okay, so walk me through the legal journey. I'm assuming after the building permit was removed, the legal process began. A lawsuit of some kind.
- [65:59]
B
Yeah, so.
- [65:59]
A
Or at least you started getting letters that said, hey, do this, that or the other.
- [66:02]
B
Right. So, you know, I hired some great lawyers. I had some shitty lawyers. You know, the, the threats, you know, the innuendos came down hard. The judge, you know, kept pushing, kept pushing. So finally he just said, In 2000, the end of 2022, 2023, he held me in contempt of court. The contempt of court was, you know, really exacerbated by, like, a lot of corruption. You know, there's a lot of dirty people that were behind it. But nevertheless, the corruption. Excuse me, the correction, the contempt of court at a civil level came in and the judge asked for immediate incarceration
- [66:42]
A
because you refused to stop training people at the facility.
- [66:45]
B
No, negative, negative.
- [66:46]
A
Okay.
- [66:47]
B
We. I refused to take down the buildings that were permitted.
- [66:50]
A
Got you.
- [66:51]
B
Okay, so, so, so the monitor.
- [66:53]
A
Did you stop training people there?
- [66:54]
B
Yeah, we had, we had to stop about a year before. Okay, so they, they, they did a, an emergency cease and desist. So we had to stop about a year before the, the, the sanctions came in for contempt of court. Okay. So like, we had to really stop training. It was, I don't remember, late 2021.
- [67:12]
A
Okay.
- [67:12]
B
Okay, so the contempt of court came in at a civil level. You know, it's a civil offense. You know, I'm, I'm never trying to debate the criminality aspect of it. Listen, it's, it's going to help me hopefully prevail in my criminal case, which hasn't been adjudicated yet. But we have to have a heavy emphasis on. It's a civil contempt of court. It's like if you go to traffic court, you call the judge a bag, he's going to call you civil contempt of court. Maybe you pay a fine or do a weekend in jail. Okay, so the civil contempt of court charge came out, and now I'm a fugitive.
- [67:45]
A
Did you get arrested?
- [67:47]
B
So I was a fugitive for about almost a year. It expired. I was filming a documentary film about this whole situation. You know, I was contractually in the negative on that because I had certain obligations. We had, you know, some C roll, B roll we did. So the, per the, the arrest warrant goes away. My lawyers get me out of the federal ncic. You know, I go back to filming. You know, I'm out snubbing my nose, you know, in public. I'm filming again this documentary film.
- [68:19]
A
And before you go on, what did you do during that year that you were.
- [68:22]
B
You just stayed on my property.
- [68:24]
A
Couldn't they come on there and serve the.
- [68:27]
B
So that's an excellent question. You know, I. I have no problem. I'm an equal opportunity offender. I learned that from the Reverend Al Sharpton. You know, I have no problems attacking people that have done me dirty, but I also want to embrace people that have done me positively. The sheriff in my community went on national television and, you know, he was bombarded with inquisitiveness from mainstream media. And he said, listen, you all know 1% of this guy. I know the other 99%. I collaborate with every agency of the federal government. You know, Ethan Allen Camp, Ethan Allen Mountain Division, you know, like all these organizations that embrace Daniel that are up there. I know either A, what he's capable of or B, what is. There he goes, we're not going up there. We're not starting a war with this guy. You know, he was very, very clear. He's like, listen, we're not going to have a Ruby Ridge happen.
- [69:16]
A
What would you have done if they had come up?
- [69:18]
B
I never, I never had, you know, I would have. I would have conceded, you know, but I always knew in my heart and mind that the government and. Or the justice system was behind me. Because internally they had embraced Slate Ridge. Right. They had nowhere to do breaching. They didn't have the shoot house I had with catwalks. They didn't have the infrastructure to do the things that I had there. So he just said no. And the judge got pissed off at him and then started putting daily sanctions on him. He's like, listen, I'm going to start fining you, Sheriff, $200 a day. Yeah.
- [69:55]
A
So does he have to personally pay that or does he have a budget for that?
- [69:58]
B
No, the state. The state did it because just like
- [70:01]
A
the state paying their own tab with the state money.
- [70:03]
B
It's ludicrous. It is, absolutely. When you look at checks and balances, it's ludicrous. No, I mean, we laugh about it all the time. And, you know, people are like, be careful. You know, the insultive nature of you is going to offend and go, but it's ridiculous. The checks and balances, like, you know, you know, they pushed it off to the state police and the state police said the same thing. They're like, listen, you know, we're not fighting this, man. Like, you know, I mean, listen, do I know. Was I the fly on the wall? No. I want to believe in their hearts and minds. They were like, no, we're not. Like, we've been up there. You know, when you come into the parking lot, law enforcement's got the best parking. Government's got the second best veterans got, you know, like, the guy has gone over, above and beyond and over for us. I'm constantly loaning out guns. I'm constantly giving animal. I'm constantly, you know, eotech gives me, you know, 20 sites. I'm like, I'm just going above and beyond. So that's when the governor went on national TV and said I was. That's where this claim comes. I'm the most dangerous guy in Vermont. So in a COVID 19 briefing, he's, you know, he refutes all of the arguments and the commentary about him not being, you know, responsible and. Or reactive. And he's like, listen, we're dealing with the most dangerous man in Vermont. I'm like, what's the matter with you, man? Like. Like, come on. You know. So the. The challenge, to answer your question, is in the civil contempt of court came down to one day a very dirty constable. Do you know what a constable is?
- [71:38]
A
Kind of. I know they're in the law enforcement realm.
- [71:40]
B
Okay. So for. For. There's a few states that have similarities and qualifications. But let me just give your audience.
- [71:47]
A
Yeah, please.
- [71:47]
B
The best analysis. If a. If a police officer in my community wants to be a police officer. Cop. He's about a year, 18 months total. A year of training, scholastic shooting, academic, whatever, and then his field training officer. So about 18 months, maybe 16 months if you're a stellar constable, 180 hours.
- [72:10]
A
Still a sworn officer, though.
- [72:11]
B
Yes.
- [72:11]
A
Okay.
- [72:12]
B
The sworn officer is in two models, 180 hours. You become level one misdemeanor arrests, serve papers, do evictions, traffic level two, you know, you're in a police car now. You have a radio. You're doing vehicle traffic law. You know, they give you pills.
- [72:33]
A
So you're not in a vehicle or uniform.
- [72:35]
B
In a level one, not in a vehicle, but in. In a uniform. There's ambiguity behind that because you own your own stuff. So armed. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. So some. Like in my town, Constable Thomas Gavino, you know, he made his own uniform. He made his own patch, he buys his own police car.
- [72:51]
A
Did it look pretty sweet?
- [72:52]
B
No.
- [72:53]
A
Did he have flare pieces?
- [72:54]
B
No. No. You look.
- [72:55]
A
My daughter would call it steez.
- [72:56]
B
Yeah.
- [72:57]
A
Which is a combination of style and ease.
- [72:59]
B
Style and ease. Okay.
- [73:00]
A
Yeah.
- [73:00]
B
I'll have to copy.
- [73:01]
A
Did we have checkerboard patterns? How was the sewing?
- [73:05]
B
Looked like grandma took something and ironed it on.
- [73:07]
A
So, like a Halloween costume?
- [73:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, like a whacker.
- [73:10]
A
Okay.
- [73:10]
B
That's what. He's. Okay.
- [73:11]
A
Yeah.
- [73:12]
B
His police car was, like, 10 years old. You know, all. Yeah. Hubcaps are missing. Whatever. So what happened was. Is a few months before my encounter, which I'm about to tell you, I was in our town hall. We have meetings, you know, two times a month. Excuse me. And I was in there filming. You know, we. You know, the producers there, the gr. I mean, it was a big thing. We. We were. We were selling this documentary to Netflix. So it was a big production. I got up to speak, and as I'm speaking, I'm reciting Robert's Law, the quorum for. The civil quorum for public speaking. In. In. In a township or. Okay. A lot of people don't know, but okay. I'm just reciting these protocols, and in that, they stifle me. The guy's like, stop talking. You know, But I'm like, no, it's my time. So not known to me. This. I've never seen this Constable Covino before. He's in the back. He comes and he's coming to grab me behind my neck, and a gentleman that was handicapped jumps up and blocks him with his cane. So I'm like. My mindset is like, okay, wait a minute. I'm about to get tacked. I. I clear the stuff out of my hands, and I proceed to get into defensive maneuver. But I'm like, wait a minute. Are you a police officer? He goes, yeah. I go, what is the matter with you? You didn't say stop. You didn't announce yourself. I'm like, you're gonna grab the back of my neck? Like, hey, man, this is highly inflammatory. This isn't. So we end up getting kicked out. But shortly after that, the calls and comments were coming in to my lawyer, to my public relations, my investigators. Hey, this guy's a dirty cop. He's a bad guy. This. And my lawyer sends me a file one day. He's like, daniel, are you. Are you on your computer? I'm like, yeah. He goes, open it up. I have it on my phone. Thomas Covino PDF. This guy's been arrested four times for dwi, one time for burglary, and he's got two. Something around domestic violence. He's not even supposed to have a pistol. So I don't know how it is here, but in New York and Vermont, they have very similar. It's called a temporary restraining order. Is for domestic violence survivors.
- [75:15]
A
Pretty sure that seeds all gun ownership rights.
- [75:18]
B
Well.
- [75:19]
A
Well, temporarily.
- [75:20]
B
Well, right, but the box, it's. It's. It's at the discretion of the judge.
- [75:24]
A
Yeah.
- [75:25]
B
Okay. So the judge can sign. He can check the box for firearm surrender or not. This guy has one temporary and one permanently.
- [75:33]
A
But he's a constable.
- [75:34]
B
Right. And he has a gun in his holster.
- [75:37]
A
How did that get. How did that get that far? It's.
- [75:39]
B
I mean, how long do you want this podcast to go on for?
- [75:41]
A
I mean. Well, I'm just.
- [75:43]
B
Yeah.
- [75:43]
A
Who runs the constable program?
- [75:44]
B
The constable program is probably. And what we will capitalize on in my criminal defense, a level of corruption. The constable program is predicated on you just saying he's a good guy, and you sign a piece of paper and off it goes.
- [76:00]
A
Who's it managed by, though? State.
- [76:01]
B
The state. It's a licensing division that has zero document. They don't relinquish documents. And. And they don't. They don't retrieve documents.
- [76:11]
A
What?
- [76:12]
B
Okay, let me say that again. They don't receive documents and they don't relinquish documents. If you call up the Department of Licensing for Law Enforcement, a wonderful woman will answer the phone, okay? And she will tell you if you ask for a police officer, XYZ certifications and credentials, she will go. And she would just look at. And say, so and so and so and so signed off on him. Okay? So for this position, this particular position for Constable Covino, his signer, offer the guy to sign off. His name is Chief William Bill Humphreys. It's his boss. Okay. He basically said, okay. Psychological evaluation. Okay. A background check. Okay. Psych, Val. Okay. Now, what happened was. You would think that would be okay, but the chief of police, he's in my documentary film, too. He's been arrested and convicted two times of giving alcohol to female minors.
- [77:07]
A
It's not a great look.
- [77:09]
B
No. And combine that with already this, his buddy. It's a position and it's a presence that's defamatory to. I have the utmost amount of respect for the law enforcement. You know, I had quotes and subliminal, you know, innuendos and, you know, all kinds of other signals from the Department of Justice. Where's the moral trouble to Daniel? Where's the moral alignment? You've got these cops up there. Not allegations, brother. Convictions that are still behind a badge.
- [77:42]
A
It sounds like something that those agencies should probably go deal with.
- [77:45]
B
They're not dealing with it why? Million dollar question. But Daniel Bonyan comes and I deal with it. So my investigators get all the information. I would assume it's all legal. It's NCIC background checks and we release it to the public. Yeah, okay, look at me any way you want. But I have a problem with you signing up for overtime at the high school because you've already been in trouble with a 16 year old girl. You've already been trouble with another girl like two times. When have you gonna learn your lesson? It's a problem for me. And now you're judging me from a legal statute. Like you're looking at me and saying I'm a terrible person because I'm a zoning violator. So I released that information. These cops know about it, right? I got to watch my back now. I got a target on my back. And sure enough, one of the times that I came off my property, I was going with one of my benefactors to help him with his greenhouse. He had a pipe break, it was in the middle of winter. And Constable Covino drove by, saw us and turned us around and we got pulled over.
- [78:48]
A
Did anything come from the information release any impact to those two people?
- [78:51]
B
So the, the justice system started, you know, inquiring minds wanted to know. In Vermont, I don't know how it is here. Police departments bid on municipality oversight, for example.
- [79:06]
A
No clue how it goes.
- [79:07]
B
Okay, so for example, my police department may be working two, three other towns. Contractually they started losing that, you know, more people wanted to know, but the basis of their accountability didn't have any. Any. There was no influx of like more questions, accountability. They were just like, listen, let's say my community's 700 people, 350 people are like, I don't care. I still love these guys. And they just leave it at that.
- [79:34]
A
It's tough, right? Okay, so you get pulled over, I get pulled over. How is that? Stop.
- [79:39]
B
It was toxic, you know, it was really, really bad. I can only talk about what's publicized because I haven't had my. My criminal case is actually the end of this month. But what happened was, is that, you know, Constable Covino saw me, you know, he went from 0 to 10. I got assault, I got beat up really bad. I sustained some serious injuries. But ultimately I caught a felony charge interfering with law enforcement duties.
- [80:05]
A
How did they justify that?
- [80:06]
B
So, you know, there's going to be a lot of reference to case law. There's going to be a lot of reference, expert testimony, there's going to be a lot of reference to protocols and procedures. But the moral of the story that, you know, I'm trained to say for the protection of my defense is that he went above and beyond because of who I was. He went above and beyond because of the direct affiliations I have with the marginalized communities. And, you know, he exercised a level of anger and hate that, you know, is vehemently. You know, on his body cam, you
- [80:41]
A
know, was he wearing a body?
- [80:42]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [80:42]
A
Okay.
- [80:42]
B
And there was a secret camera in the woods getting it the whole time. So what? And we had our cameras out.
- [80:48]
A
So what do you mean there was a secret camera?
- [80:50]
B
Exactly. That's what we said.
- [80:51]
A
How did they know that you were going to get stopped in that exact location?
- [80:54]
B
Exactly. These are the things that don't line up. But there was a secret trail cam that was in there facing the hole.
- [81:00]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, all of those things should show it well in color and in black and white, depending on what the camera is. Exactly what you're talking about. So.
- [81:08]
B
Right.
- [81:08]
A
If what you're saying is legit, then you should be pretty much good to go.
- [81:11]
B
Yeah, I. I don't. I don't. What my fear from a justice system affiliation is this, is that when I got arrested, I spent almost a year incarcerated. I did 120 days in confinement in a. In a. In a federally supermax facility that was just built like I was treated like I was a really. Like I was the next Unabomber, the next serial killer. And that level of violating my constitutional rights, my civil rights, and, you know, segregating me in a classification that was not duly warranted, you know, was the position and the oversight of how powerful the tyrannical Vermont government is, you know, like, my attorneys were like, listen, they're heavy hitters, you know, the top five. And, you know, millions of people, they're like, listen, we got pedophiles, we got serial killers, we got arsonists. They're nowhere near what you're doing to Daniel. But this system rolled the dice, placated their ideologies and their hate towards me, and I suffered.
- [82:17]
A
How did they categorize you as a prisoner to deserve that level of isolation?
- [82:21]
B
So the justice system looked at hypotheticals, his skill set. Right? He's a flight risk, he's an escape risk. He has all these trainings. You know, he's a gun guy.
- [82:31]
A
He's gun training and being able to break out of a prison. I mean, I get all my information of this on watching tv, but I'm pretty sure they're not the same skill set.
- [82:41]
B
I Say the same thing. You know, I really advocate. So I had, you know, my own religious advocates and advocacy, and then I had a whole separate health care because, you know, this. I'm. I'm. I'm blind in this eye. He broke my cranial cavity, my orbital socket. I lost some teeth. This whole arm was rebuilt. Like, I got the shit beat out of me. And I'm not afraid to say, people are like, oh, Daniel, swallow that pride. And I'm like, no, no, it's on camera. I got beat up. That's okay. That's okay. My advocacy will move forward in trying to get justice for people like me and myself. But the moral of the story is, is that how it played out for me is a two tiered system. Okay? What's good for you, what's good for me, not for thee. Ever heard that saying? Yep. We were just in court last week. Okay. And I just quote you something that's very easy to recite. We had a police officer in our community shoot a guy evading. Okay. He was a car. He pulled over a car. The driver stayed in the car. The passenger shot the guy two times in the back. He just got six months probation.
- [83:46]
A
The person who got out of the
- [83:47]
B
car or the driver, the passenger of the car got out, started running. The police officer shot him, shot the runner, shot the runner two times in his back. Probation.
- [83:55]
A
Was he armed?
- [83:56]
B
Nope. He just ran away.
- [83:59]
A
Wow, that is a rapid escalation of force.
- [84:03]
B
Rewind about six more months. We had a police officer in our community driving, watching a YouTube video on his government, you know, tough book or whatever they have there. Watch a YouTube video, ran over a bicyclist, killed him. Zero jail time, and he kept his job until the community protest, and then he got terminated. Wow. But they want me to do 12 to 15 years in prison for interfering with law enforcement duties.
- [84:34]
A
And that was somehow during the arrest proceeding. What'd they say? You fought back?
- [84:39]
B
Yeah. So the system. The system bars those that want legal advocacy. They bar those that dare to challenge the authenticity. They bar those that are trying to implement some type of advocacy. You know what I mean? I. I would tell inmates all the time, listen, I don't. As long as it wasn't anything to do with women or children. Like I was. Or. Yeah, I'll leave it at that. But I was like, listen, no, don't just, you know, submit to your guilty. Like, you know, that's what lawyers are for. That's what the system is for. That's what the justice system is supposed to do for us. And win, lose or draw, there should be a system that doesn't alienate you from certain rights, you know, that doesn't alienate you from certain provisions. Like for me, they gave me zero health care. You know, the, the.
- [85:31]
A
How's that possible?
- [85:33]
B
They just got away with it. You know, they. In the beginning, they said they didn't have, you know, they wanted a 4 to 1 ratio for me, for medical, they couldn't.
- [85:41]
A
They didn't. Of guards, you mean?
- [85:43]
B
Yeah, yeah. They didn't have enough space. I didn't get wreck. I didn't get showers. They said, you know, they made excuses. Well, we have a female on the unit. He can't come out. He can't come out for wreck when there's a female in the unit. We don't have enough guards, you know, to move him from isolation to shower them back. They always had an excuse. And on paper, the Department of Corrections, you know, they just aligned with that. You know, it's that brotherhood.
- [86:08]
A
That doesn't make sense, though. I mean, you were doing firearms training, right? Why does that make you unsafe to come out if a woman is on duty?
- [86:17]
B
I don't believe it had anything to do with me. I think it was just the political incorrectness or the standard operating procedures that they just implemented, you know, because I had many people. I was in that prison, you know, I remember that lady. And, you know, we were, you know, here's the thing. What are you going to do? You can't fight them. You can't argue with them. You know, I was having a hard time getting food. You know, I'm a vegetarian.
- [86:43]
A
Have you always been a vegetarian?
- [86:44]
B
Yeah. Yep.
- [86:45]
A
I don't know, like the taste of meat.
- [86:47]
B
No, I just. It's my religion, you know, I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. We don't eat meat. So when I went into the judicial system, you know, I was like, listen, y' all can't give me a hot dog, you can't give me a beef patty. Like, I don't eat this stuff, you know, it was just.
- [86:59]
A
It was a. I'm not sure hot dog is meat for clarity. Well, it might be closer to vegetarian. I haven't read the list of ingredients on a hot dog in a while, but I'd say it's a coin toss if it's actually meat.
- [87:10]
B
But you know what I'm saying, these challenges to this system are not normal. Their attitude was like, you're just going to eat what we give you or what we tell you to eat, and, and, you know, I refuted that. You know, I didn't kowtow to that. You know, I'm a sheepdog. I'm not a sheep. And I really tried to advocate to people that too. I'm like, listen, you know, there was a Muslim population. There were other Jews there. I'm like, listen, you know, when we look at it by law, there is a policy, there are procedures, there are checks and balances here in the state and within the judicial system with every branch of accommodating our religious beliefs or commenting this. I mean, no, I can't ask for, you know, 800 thread count sheets, but you can't give me a pork patty and, you know, crawfish. You know what I mean?
- [87:53]
A
What is a Seventh Day Adventist? I don't know much about that. I've heard it before, but honestly, I don't know anything about it.
- [87:58]
B
Yeah, so we're a group of Christians. You know, I like to simplify it because, you know, I'm in. And among a group of all my friends are pretty much Seventh Adventists. You know, we're literally a biblical Christianity. You know, we just, okay, follow what the Bible says, literally abide by that and, you know, manifest in a way of the peace and serenity of what the Bible advocates.
- [88:23]
A
Okay, yeah. Sect of Christianity.
- [88:25]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [88:26]
A
Okay.
- [88:26]
B
You know. You know, a lot of my beliefs are very similar to Judaism, Muslims, Islam, you know, integrate with a lot of those people. You know, people call them, you know, your. Your fundamentals. You know, like, I've never had drugs or alcohol in my life just because it's biblically incorrect. I've never ate pork in my life. You know what I mean?
- [88:48]
A
The first two, drugs and alcohol, you're not missing out on.
- [88:50]
B
Right.
- [88:52]
A
There are some delicious appetizers. Yeah, I think you're pork belly appetizer
- [88:57]
B
with a little teriyaki sauce, calamari, lobster. Yeah, I know I'm constantly getting beat up on those things, but, you know, I think that it sets the precedent in the stance of, you know, the strengths and the character that I've formed myself into and, you know, walking in and among, you know, folks like yourself. I've always been privileged in the sense that, listen, you know, I want to be a cause, I want to be a product of something. And what I built, Slate Ridge was to be. Do you know the difference between scholar practitioner and a practitioner?
- [89:33]
A
Nope.
- [89:33]
B
Okay, so the scholar practitioner is a guy that reads everything in a book and goes out and does those things, you know, an expert on it. Right. And I would often say to command staff in the military, you know, colonel, general above, or let's say a chief of police, sheriff, whatever. I'd say, listen, sir, ma', am, would you rather have the, the, the guy that says he's the very best heart surgeon in the whole world, that's been to every single class, read every single textbook and has only done like five or surgeries, or would you like the guy that's done like 10, 000 successful heart surgeries and it's a no brainer in that analogy in where you should go, where you should focus your attention? The practitioner is what I only allowed at Slate Rich. Listen, you know how many times people told me they were Navy seal, Delta, this, that, and a third? I'd say, listen, I don't really care,
- [90:23]
A
as you shouldn't actually.
- [90:25]
B
Don't tell me. Show me. You want to come to Slate Ridge, you want to go to the maritime range, you know, you want to go to the CQB range, you want to go to the long range, Go there and show to me, you know, what you're doing as a practitioner now. You know, when I built the school building, you know, I kind of like, you know, Larry Vickers. Right?
- [90:48]
A
I know who he is.
- [90:49]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [90:49]
A
Yeah.
- [90:50]
B
So you know Larry Vickers, you know many other people. Kenneth Hackathorn, you know, old school, like Gunsight guys. You know, I always looked at the fundamentals of training. It's a moot point. It's firearms. It could be sewing, it could be crocheting, cooking, whatever. Some component of the tactician part, right? Auto body. You, you are in a classroom at some point. You're not always turning wrenches. Okay. The reason why I built the school and the authenticity behind how intricate the school was is that when you came to Slate Ridge, you went into a school building. I don't care if you're the best tactician in the world, you went into the school building to automatically learn the fundamentals of gun safety. So it wasn't redundant. You knew the principles, you knew our policies and procedures, and then off you went. The school building was the very first thing the town attacked to be removed. Because I believe to this day that they felt that that building, that school building, as I told you 45 minutes plus minutes ago, of how we got a license, how we got that school building, I think was so threatening to the Vermonter, to the populace that was in close proximity to me, that they just lost their minds.
- [92:08]
A
I'm still struggling to understand how they could connect the dots to a tyrannical overthrow of government. Or their way of life.
- [92:15]
B
If you look at. If you look at 2019, they first started calling me a gun fighting school. That didn't stick in the media. Then they went to militia. Now, I wasn't a militia member, but I did let the Vermont state militia come. Listen. Ellen Berry, a Pulitz Prize writer from New York Times, they flew her in to come to my property. She was actually the only investigative reporter that ever came to my property. I don't know if you know her. She wrote a slanderous piece, but she was authentic. She came, she investigated, she took pictures, she looked at the property. She was the same thing. She's like, dorms, classrooms, ranges. Like, oh, my God. She wrote the piece, but she had said the same thing. She's like, I spoke to the Vermont state militia, Daniel. We interviewed them. They're going to be featured in. In this. Like, I was on the front page and a whole page inside the New York Times. She's like, some presidents don't get that. She's like, they said you were the only one that would let them come here. I'm like, yeah, because they're good people, right? They're. They're all different colors. They're all different sexual preferences. For like a year, I think it was like 2000, 2001, they called me the militia militias. And then that Vermont digger started paramilitary. The paramilitary adopted the most attention. People were just mesmerized.
- [93:37]
A
What year was this?
- [93:38]
B
2022. Okay. When I was incarcerated in 2023-2024, the state adopted. It's called the paramilitary law. It's in my name. The paramilitary law now prohibits, among many things, two people training at one time in one area, at one venue. I'm going to say it again. What if you have a couple of kids, say you have three sons.
- [94:01]
A
Yeah.
- [94:01]
B
Only you and one son can train. You cannot train. Yes. Yeah. They put many other provisions in there. They put, you know, your course of fire if you're going to do rapid fire. That is a governmental overtake premise. It's just they put all. They put all these sanctions, they put all these provisions. That's how the state of Vermont is slowly eradicating the second amendment rights in the state. And the Vermonter is so fucking stupid. They're allowing this to happen without getting behind a level of advocacy or activism to refute that.
- [94:41]
A
How is that possible?
- [94:42]
B
That's just. They did it. Overwhelming vote. Do you know when the vote came from guys that were private security contractors? I'm not going to say their names because they've already been beaten up. But there's one guy who's a Lockheed and Martin contractor there, served in Iraq. You know, I know him well and voted for that. Yeah, yep. And is an anti gun proponent now. You know, got another guy, you know, a couple miles away from me, prominent JAG officer, Navy jag. And he's like, Daniel, I don't know what he goes, I just feel so evil holding my rifle. I just felt so disgusting doing qualifications with my, with my firearms.
- [95:19]
A
And I'm like, then don't hold your rifle.
- [95:21]
B
I'm like, but that movement, right, that solicitation. Oh, I'm a jag. He's got, he's got platforms, he's got, he helps the moniker of anti gun movement. He helps that very, very defamatory coalition of winning hearts and minds of people to be anti gun.
- [95:46]
A
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- [97:29]
B
the show, you know, and then. And then just last year, S59, myself and another gentleman, another big advocate in my state, a lot of people don't like. His name is Mr. Kevin Hoyt. They opened up a form, it's called S59 to stop people talking at your public meetings or your public hearing.
- [97:51]
A
What? Yeah, I don't. I'm sorry. Yeah.
- [97:53]
B
Okay. So you want to go to your town.
- [97:55]
A
Yeah.
- [97:56]
B
You've got a qualm. Right. They wanted to stop the American citizen from speaking.
- [98:02]
A
Who would ever agree to sign off on that?
- [98:03]
B
It's a law now. It's. It's already in Act S59.
- [98:06]
A
How is that not a violation of your First Amendment right?
- [98:10]
B
That's the thing. That's what I'm really on this crusade. I'm on this campaign until they somehow muzzle me. I'm out there trying to communicate with people. Once again, back to the cause versus the character.
- [98:22]
A
Michael, look up S59 in Vermont, please. I just don't. I don't understand how that could even be possible.
- [98:28]
B
When they opened up the hearing, the first thing you yell, banier. They don't want people to come and advocate. They want.
- [98:36]
A
Are they trying to silence people from yelling from the back?
- [98:39]
B
Listen, they. You have to remember, all of these organizations and these groups are quasi judicial. Okay, the heavy emphasis on that. But the quasi. It's like the people that. That are like, Daniel, look at your misdemeanor that turned into a felony. Okay? These movements are slowly. Like, for example, people are like, can we have five minutes to talk? And then they're like, how about no minutes? All right, we'll give you two minutes. Or if you don't politically align with this, or you don't play, like, the freedom of speech, there really shouldn't be any conditions on it. Does that make sense or no? Like, listen, I'm not about cursing.
- [99:15]
A
That's an absolutist approach, for sure. But here's the thing. Whether you for, for or against cursing, you can't be for the First Amendment and be against it.
- [99:23]
B
Right? Listen, I. I like people when they Communicate with me to speak. Matter of fact, I, I don't specifically appreciate the emotional component of it, but if you need to get your message off to me with curses, okay, but it's protected. Will we agree on that? Yeah, it's, it's. Now, do I think it's appropriate to go to a judicial quorum or a forum and start speaking about this? And this is what I'm talking about.
- [99:50]
A
All right. What is this? All right. Act number 51 8, decimal 59. An act relating to amendments to Vermont's open meeting law subjects. Open meeting law, general provisions, common law, general rights, public information. This act amends various sections of Vermont's open meeting law to provide a field visit and site inspection exception to the hybrid meeting requirement for state public bodies provide a field visit and site inspection exemption to their quartering requirements. What? I don't understand what any of this is already. Michael, go back to what it was before the overview.
- [100:21]
B
Yeah, the, the moral of the story is for the folks that are not like minded, is that how anyone is trying to redact or control constitutional amendments? I mean, I don't know how much clear like people ask me. Listen, follow me for a second. When I initially got into court, you know, people were like, well, thank God it's not an auto body shop. Thank God it's not a sex toy shop. I'm like, right. I chose firearms because it's constitutionally protected. We shouldn't be in any type of venue negating the firearms. Let me, let me simplify my firearms eligibility. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. If you go to my town right now, in my property, my property is titled now and indefinitely forbidden for firearms discharging. So I'm going to lose my property. The government's going to take it, they're going to auction it. The next guy is going to come and buy it with a condition. He can't hunt it, he can't. Can't plinker, he can't. He will never be able to discharge a firearm on my land. Where have you ever heard that before? In the continental United States of America. Now, now, on a church. Let's, let's, let's make that a little bit more toxic. Right? I go and say, are you going to modify my taxes now? Oh, you're being a not wise ass. No.
- [101:42]
A
Why would they modify your taxes?
- [101:44]
B
Well, you've taken a portion, you've now controlled.
- [101:48]
A
Yeah.
- [101:48]
B
A condition. Right. So not only firearms, I do, I probably did farming. I had cat. We had over 300 animals there. Yeah, okay. They took those things away, too. But what I'm saying is now is that you're looking at a pie and you're saying this is what you can. So what are you saying I can do, just live here? And they're saying, basically, because they tore everything down. Okay, so why don't I just pay taxes on just living there?
- [102:12]
A
What else are they charging you taxes on?
- [102:14]
B
Well, the generalized taxation bracket was under the premise I could shoot firearms there.
- [102:19]
A
The taxes change based on whether or not you can shoot a gun there.
- [102:21]
B
That's what I'm asking for. I don't think you're following me.
- [102:25]
A
No.
- [102:26]
B
Okay.
- [102:27]
A
Is there a different tax bracket for those who can and cannot shoot?
- [102:31]
B
No, but what I'm saying there should be. Because now you've put a sanction. You've put a restriction on my land.
- [102:37]
A
Yeah.
- [102:37]
B
That says I can't do xyz. So, as.
- [102:40]
A
As at what rate would you want your taxes adjusted?
- [102:43]
B
Who knows? It was just a general argument.
- [102:44]
A
Yeah.
- [102:45]
B
You know what I'm saying? Like, let's just say you came and said, you know what, Daniel? No more riding ATVs on your land, which is things they've done in towns. But I was an avid ATV owner or rider or competitor or whatever. As a slap back in their face, I'd say, okay, listen, then why do I have to pay the same tax? Like, you're putting a condition. You're putting a term and condition on my utilization of my land. Maybe I should pay lesser taxes.
- [103:08]
A
Isn't the tax based off the value of the land?
- [103:10]
B
It's supposed to be. It's supposed to be.
- [103:12]
A
Well, if it is based off the value of the land, that it negates your argument.
- [103:16]
B
It was an argument that we proposed.
- [103:18]
A
Okay.
- [103:18]
B
Yeah.
- [103:20]
A
All right. S59 legislative session, signed by the governor on June of 2025, amends the state open meeting law to enhance transparency, improve accessibility, and modernize procedures for public bodies. It focuses on improving recording and providing hybrid options for public meetings. So I'm not seeing how this is shutting down anybody's speech.
- [103:42]
B
Yeah, you have to go. You have to go actually to the Vermont state. There. I don't know the exact numbers on there, but it will start with the conditions, the timing, the rhetoric.
- [103:53]
A
So this is the summary, and I have another one that is the full bill, but it's very long.
- [103:58]
B
Yeah, that's where you have to go.
- [104:00]
A
And look, read the bill, Michael. Do your job, you whacker.
- [104:04]
B
But what I'm saying is that, like, right now, they have this Act 181 on the table. And it's just more subtitles, let's say, and provisions to say to the Vermonter, to the citizen, to the people, hey, listen, we're going to put another condition on your property ownership. We're going to put another provision on, you know, how you're going to cohabitate, how you're going to manage, how you're going to own your land. And that's what should be ruffled in the feathers of everyone. You, me, him, anyone. I mean, listen, I'm all about permitting, right? People, People think like, I'm like, no, that's not the case. Like, what, what idiot would go and invest more than a million dollars of infrastructure on a property with no permits? Like the, the, that tyrannical, defaming my character, like, I snubbed my nose, that policy procedure. No, no, when you ask any federal agency, they're like, listening. We made this guy jump through hoops, okay? You know, the oversight on him was, was tumultuous, like, really, really radical. The problem, I really believe, is that I did it the right way. And while even my closest friends, like, how are you going to build this place? We're going to get the money. Where are you going to get the. I made it happen. But having that said, I think that was a threat to them and, or, you know, this, this model, like, oh, he's training people. You know, we did more than just gun stuff. There's, you know, I had people come, you know, outfitters, clothing company, shoes, you know, we did a lot of different things there. And you know, the, the off gridding, homesteading, you know, ideology really morphed and, and that when coincided with, like, guns, you know, look at, look at Off Grid magazine, look at Recoil magazine, you know, look at all these groups that they kind of intermingle. And I don't know if you see that, but I do. You know, I mean, I don't read
- [105:50]
A
either of those magazines.
- [105:51]
B
Okay, I don't either. But, you know, I see they're, they're on the newsstand, their, their pictures. And I hypothesize, you know, the correlation, you know, Orvis, a very large fly fishing group, is, you know, 25, 30 miles away. You know, those guys would come up, hey, listen, I may not be a tactical shooter, but, you know, can we go out to XYZ range and do ski? Like, absolutely. You know, people wanting to camp or, or people wanting to, you know, just embrace the wildlife. It wasn't solely set on, you know, shooting, you know, in the parking lot. You know, you would see, you know, very decorated veterans that wouldn't just come and have the camaraderie about being around other veterans. You know, you know, barbecue or hang out or go chill out with the animals. I mean, the, the institution of what Slate Ridge represented was a family orientated, robust place that embraced everyone. And the, and the government taking that away, you know, really hurt a lot of people and it really affected the, the totality of Vermont. Said in the beginning, right. They really, they, you know, there's, there's no official at a local, state or government level that didn't say, we're going to get this guy out of here publicly. And when they said it, they meant it because they're getting me out of there.
- [107:16]
A
So this all stems from the clawback of the building permit, correct? Legal issues, Correct.
- [107:20]
B
Yeah. And what's interesting is, what's interesting is, is that, you know, there's other actors. Like there's a gentleman on the board, right? I told you, my town has town Council met five.
- [107:31]
A
Yeah.
- [107:32]
B
One gentleman, Mr. Michael Beecher. Him and his son started a business on their land illegally. They got caught, had all these sanctions, but they were able to pay the fines and they were able to keep the infrastructure they built, which is apples and oranges, right. They're commercial. I was, you know, I have a. Not for profit. A legal 501C3.
- [107:50]
A
Yeah.
- [107:50]
B
It doesn't really appease many people. But we were a non for profit. Okay. He had a commercial entity for profit and the town was able to bend the system. Right. You know, it's the two tiered system. Like, you know, in my film and in, in my book and other things that like it's, it's really a radical two tiered system. Right. What's good for me, not for thee. How some people got away with much worse. And then there's me that it's like, you know, getting the government slammed on me.
- [108:23]
A
What business were they in?
- [108:25]
B
The one guy was landscaping and the other guy was some type of construction.
- [108:30]
A
What were they doing that went awry of what they were supposed to be doing?
- [108:33]
B
So, you know, I just read case. I don't, I don't talk about hypotheticals. Okay. The one gentleman, Mr. Beecher, they had built buildings to, to house firewood production. I guess they were splitting firewood and selling firewood and in that structure was the apparatus that I would imagine log splitters and.
- [108:49]
A
Yeah.
- [108:50]
B
So all that stuff was produced without a permit. You have to remember I had a permit and it was in commerce, which is a Whole nother thing like Vermont hates when you profit with your business. So he checked two boxes.
- [109:03]
A
Is that their state slogan on like the license plate?
- [109:06]
B
It should be we hate you.
- [109:08]
A
I haven't seen their license plate, so
- [109:10]
B
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- [109:29]
A
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- [109:40]
B
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- [109:42]
A
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B
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- [109:53]
A
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- [110:14]
B
You know, it's, it's the.
- [110:17]
A
So they didn't change their business license or did they allow them to get a retroactive one?
- [110:21]
B
Oh yeah, they bent over backwards from, they put some penalties, your fines, you know, and he had to pay them over, you know, course of year interest fees. You know, my fines are, by the time this is said and done will be about a half a million dollars. Right now it's around 320, $320,000. It gains $200 a day plus interest each day.
- [110:43]
A
Okay, and is there any way you would have been able to keep your business open so they changed the building permit? Is there a way that you would have been able to apply for whatever building permit that they would have wanted you to have for that business to modify your business to stay inside of the legal boundaries of the permit.
- [111:01]
B
Billion dollar question. They absolutely know the town through their, their prosecutors, through their, their legal teams. It was 100% no out. Like for example, two months ago they went to my federal lawyers and they're like, listen, we'll make a deal with Daniel if he signs a decree that he will leave the state indefinitely. My lawyers push it right back. Like, are you out of your mind?
- [111:25]
A
They actually put that on paper?
- [111:26]
B
Yeah, they're like, to forbidden him. And my lawyer is so comical. He's like, listen, you. How many times I've been in a county and the sheriff's like, don't ever let me see you back in my community. And he's like, fuck you. Like, what are you going to do? Like, I'm a free man. I'm a living being. Like, I have rights. Like, but these are the things they offer.
- [111:42]
A
Do you agree that we have to have a driver's license to drive? All right, traveler, take it easy. Yeah, you were edging up against some sovereign citizen language there, but you know what I mean?
- [111:50]
B
Like, you know, it's. It's. It's comical because, you know, behind the notoriety of their lunacy, like, and. And there is, you know, is that extra eccentric, like, like, my lawyer is like, listen, who would ever sign this? Like, I would never legally advocate any client. Forget about Daniel, Bonnie. Any, like, you want to forbid it,
- [112:10]
A
then they'll say, okay, depends on the situation they're in. You know, they think they have leverage.
- [112:15]
B
Well, they do have the leverage because they have the, you know, they have the state, they have the government, they have the community. And at one point, they had the populace against me. But, you know, tables are turning. You know, the dissemination of information has been coming out. People are finally like, I used to listen. I used to say to people of all breeds, colors, whatever, listen, you know, Mr. So and so Navy Seal, why did you trust my facility? Well, Daniel, when I went in the school, I looked to the left, the wall, all your licenses were there. And if I ever doubted them, they're all federally. Let's say you lost your FFL today within 15 minutes. It's updated. I went to the State Department. You're a school. If you. It would have been redacted. It's on there. So I didn't need to talk to you about. Wasn't about credibility. The facts are here. And then, you know, I started winning the hearts and minds of those people because they were just like you were smart enough to put all your licensing, your zoning, your bonding, your insurance, everything was on the wall there. Who looked at that? I don't know. Some people did, but not enough, because there were a group, a number of people that would come that actually turned their back on me, that was like, wait a minute. I was on your property, Unlicensed, unbonded, on, uncertified I'm like, no, why did
- [113:33]
A
they think those things?
- [113:34]
B
Because the media and the media is, is victimizing people and it's metastasizing daily. It's becoming an epidemic into the real world. Yeah, it's becoming an epidemic. People are constantly telling me, you know, you know, don't let it bother you. But what has happened is, is that there's a complete disconnection from logic. And that logical standpoint is where you know, the introduction of really radical emotions, you know, people yelling, crying, screaming, hate, whatever. And you know, what I try to do is stay level minded and bring people back. Like, listen, you don't have to like me. I just need you to respect me and understand. I had a valid building permit. It was clawed back, redacted, whatever verbiage that is applicable to your intelligence. And I refused as I provoke everyone else. If you built a house, you know, one of the largest developers in our communities on my site, he's like, Daniel, I'm the biggest developer around the ski lodges. You know, we got Killington, we got all these big. He's like, I could piss somebody off and they'll say, boom. They'll pull my permit. I got to take down 100 condos. People are living in fear with a precedent. You get it right. Once that precedent started. Look at the Bruin case. Look at all these other. Look at Rhonda Azell, like all these other people that, you know, I've intermingled in my legal group, they have all these huge precedents. Once they get authenticated, they get activated. And that's what the Vermonter and other people, you know, Massachusetts has, has put some commentary about me and my precedent. New Hampshire, Maine, they're like, look what this Vermont did to this guy. How could we get finagle that to work for us when we got some shit bag we don't like? And that's the scary part.
- [115:20]
A
Is there any way you could have fought the changing of the building permit? Was there a legal avenue to fight that? Not you necessarily would have won, but was there an avenue to.
- [115:27]
B
We did. We did. So we, when we went to the Second Circuit Federal Court, we argued a freedom of speech because, you know, the building structure. While we could have taken all the gun stuff down like in here, we could have turned it into a church. We offered Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. We had, had had one or two weddings there, a couple of bridesmaids. Like, we had other things there, you know, so we could have turned it into an event center or an event. Arena State said no. In Actuality, when you look at the narcissistic verbiage. Right. The judge wrote in the decree, he said, not only does that building have to be demolished, we need to implement that. He cannot repurpose or reutilize any of the building material. Think about that for a minute.
- [116:21]
A
It's a bold statement that.
- [116:22]
B
That's a very, very inflammatory statement coming from a judge. And the hate, like, people are like, we can feel that judge exuding his hate for you. You know, we. Like when they demolished a property when I was incarcerated, you know, there was a lot of people crying inside. They went down and made sure every two by six, every two by four, they ran magnets to get the metal nails. Like, they made sure that nothing was left so that Slate Ridge 2.0 could never be rebuilt.
- [116:51]
A
So there was no legal path for you to fight that revocation of the building?
- [116:55]
B
No.
- [116:58]
A
It's a tough place to be.
- [116:59]
B
Yeah.
- [117:00]
A
On the other side of that, you
- [117:01]
B
know, I. I pray that no human being, no American citizen ever has to go down this slippery slope. The slope for me, could have been worse if it was predicated on fear. Right. The quintessential component to my advocacy was I didn't fear them. Right. You know, in the past, you know, the. The town's men, the townspeople these days, they did things to authenticate their power. Right. You know, two gay guys tried to move in one time. They burned their house down. Okay.
- [117:34]
A
Is this allegedly.
- [117:36]
B
No, this is a fact. Yo. This is fact.
- [117:37]
A
Documented fact.
- [117:38]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. The. The one gentleman is in. He's another person that's in this film that we did. He jumped out the second story window, broke his hip, broke his. Like. Like they've got terrible stories, you know, nothing.
- [117:49]
A
Not the people whose house was burned down. You. You have demonstrable proof as to who burned it down and why.
- [117:55]
B
Oh, wait. Well, all right. No, we don't. You know, under. Under. Under the police reports as electrical fire.
- [118:02]
A
Okay.
- [118:03]
B
Yeah.
- [118:03]
A
So the reasoning behind it. I think I understand where you're coming from, but let's be clear. It's a hypothesis.
- [118:08]
B
For sure. For sure, for sure. I understand where you're coming from. There is no legal, definitive. There's. There's no charges. You know, there was investigation, but you
- [118:18]
A
feel like you understand.
- [118:18]
B
Yeah.
- [118:19]
A
Let's be clear with what we feel and what we know.
- [118:21]
B
Yeah, for sure. You know, the. The. The movement of these folks and their monstrous hate, you know, they slip under the radar. They're not. They're not. They're not. They're not dumb. They can be callous. But if, if. Let's just say, let's just go back to the hypothetical. If you have a whole group of people that are against you, do you really think that this system would massage a verdict any other way? That electrical fire, if everybody wants to get the gay people out of the
- [118:52]
A
community, I don't know how it would end up in a setting where there's a verdict associated with that.
- [118:59]
B
Let me give you another prime example. The fire. The fire chief, his name is David Ricard Senior, he came to me early in building Slate Ridge because as the fire chief, he was like, listen, I'm getting reports of how much munitions you have on the property. That includes but not limited to gunpowder. I'm like, yeah, sure, of course, Chief. It's like, okay. He goes, what is your standard operating procedure or how would you mitigate fire suppression? And I'm like, well, I would call you. He goes, we're not coming here. This is choice. No, they don't have a choice, but they're volunteer. So this is what he said to me on record. He goes, we're not coming here. We don't like you. Nobody likes you. Because we're going to get toned out. We're going to be busy. They'll call for mutual aid, whatever. He goes, by that time, you'll be burned out. That's a fact. So you know what I did? I went, I got state protocol on how to build a retention pod. I put my own fire mitigating apparatus in. Carved out an acre. There's hundreds of thousands of gallons there. We put our own. We've set our own stuff up. We came, we came to the threat. Okay, you're not gonna help us. We'll be self sufficient.
- [120:09]
A
There's a lot of liability for somebody saying on record that that's the case.
- [120:13]
B
There is no recourse though.
- [120:16]
A
Maybe at a local level, but I feel like somebody operating in that capacity that this could elevate quite quickly to either a state or a federal level.
- [120:24]
B
At the state level, when I made a complaint about him on record in, in, in discovery, they said, listen, Daniel, what he's saying is fact while it is perceived as a threat. But your property, name, address is going to come out. And if the volunteers don't volunteer, what can we do? This isn't a paid fire department. So do you see where the ambiguity is?
- [120:49]
A
Well, there is a, There's.
- [120:51]
B
There's a certain causation to believe that. Right? Okay, you're a volunteer. I'm not going to volunteer. Okay, send it to Mutual Aid. Mutual Aid is the next town. Well, I don't like that shit bag either.
- [121:02]
A
Okay, Are they volunteer fire department?
- [121:04]
B
They all are. There's no paid fire department. There's.
- [121:07]
A
I don't know the legalities on that one. I mean, can they just.
- [121:11]
B
It was justified not to go any further in a formal complaint or any accountability.
- [121:18]
A
Interesting.
- [121:19]
B
It is. And those are the. Those are the trials and tribulations we are faced with. Where that anomaly is there, like. Daniel, what are you talking about? They have to go. Really? They're volunteer.
- [121:29]
A
Yeah. I don't know what a volunteer fire department is required to do, if anything. I don't. And I think that's where they have the ability to say no, because they don't have. It's not. They're not contracted and they're not paid.
- [121:43]
B
Now, did I get the statue from the town or their. Their. Their contractual obligation? No, but the moral of the story is that I'm very glad Mr. Ricard came to me and told me that him and his fire department are not coming to my property because that allowed me a certain level of. I became eligible to now be self sufficient. I became eligible to say, listen, now this is my responsibility. We'll go on govplanet.com and we'll get some old military fire apparatus.
- [122:12]
A
What is govplanet.com?
- [122:13]
B
oh, stay off there, Michael. Oh, boy.
- [122:17]
A
Is this where you can buy really cool things?
- [122:19]
B
Yeah, really cool stuff.
- [122:20]
A
Auction.
- [122:21]
B
Yes. Tell me more. And cheap.
- [122:23]
A
What kind of things?
- [122:25]
B
You name it.
- [122:26]
A
You see any helicopters on there?
- [122:27]
B
I have, but they go like that.
- [122:29]
A
Okay, well, Michael, you have a new job.
- [122:31]
B
Don't do that. This is like pornography.
- [122:34]
A
Hold on, Michael. Browse by category, please. Drop down.
- [122:39]
B
So, but you see what I'm saying, like, you know, I went on there, I got some fire apparatus, I got, you know, I got everything we needed. And then we became an organization that became self sufficient.
- [122:48]
A
Go to government surplus. Michael left. Yes. Aviation. What? You scroll down.
- [122:57]
B
Oh, no. This podcast just went in the wrong direction.
- [123:00]
A
I saw aviation parts go back up. Michael, don't deny me. Yeah, just trying to protect his.
- [123:08]
B
Oh, no.
- [123:10]
A
Ooh, gauges.
- [123:12]
B
Whoa.
- [123:12]
A
What are those? And how many do I need? I feel like. What are those? Pallets? I need those. They're five dollars. What are those? Oh, they're 1900 miles away. Michael, how big is your car? Road trip. Okay, make a note of this website, please, Michael. I'm gonna go ahead and take a look. Yes, sir. Hold on here. Go to Bell helicopter. Hard left. Make. Yep.
- [123:42]
B
Lame.
- [123:45]
A
You don't know if it's lame yet. Okay, cool. I know what I'm doing the rest of my life.
- [123:49]
B
This, this is. Yeah. You could get in trouble here. I. I have, I've purchased a majority of my stuff and see where it says Pennsylvania.
- [123:57]
A
Yeah.
- [123:57]
B
That's the closest hub for me.
- [123:58]
A
Is it pretty. Did the picture is pretty close to what.
- [124:01]
B
Yeah, yeah. And they have an ironclad. If you have an issue, they'll refund you. Work with you. Yeah.
- [124:07]
A
Who gets the money from these sales.
- [124:08]
B
So Donald Trump really put this program into, into play. So where I go to Pennsylvania, it's all Air Force like retirees there.
- [124:16]
A
Yeah.
- [124:16]
B
They're great people. If you still have a CAT card. Okay. Any of the bases that you know, you could get a lot quicker access if you had active CAT card.
- [124:26]
A
Yeah.
- [124:26]
B
And you can really intermingle with the staff or whatever.
- [124:29]
A
Mos test fly the helicopters, maybe all that stuff.
- [124:32]
B
Just run it.
- [124:32]
A
Yeah.
- [124:33]
B
Like I'm always looking at the M178, you know, the, the trucks.
- [124:36]
A
Yeah.
- [124:37]
B
So, you know, listen, this is. Forget it.
- [124:41]
A
We'll save this for another day.
- [124:42]
B
Yeah, you're welcome.
- [124:44]
A
Whacker's gonna go ahead and bookmark this for us.
- [124:46]
B
But, you know, I bought latrines, I bought shower stalls. You know, the dormitories.
- [124:50]
A
Yeah.
- [124:50]
B
I put a lot of the Viking cooked wear. Yeah.
- [124:54]
A
All right. How was your time in prison? What'd you do with your time?
- [124:58]
B
So.
- [124:58]
A
Or jail or.
- [125:00]
B
Yeah, yeah. So it was, it was tough off right off the beginning, you know, I was very, very isolated. You know, I definitely kept my mind busy. You know, I reverted back to some training that I had. You know, I played little mind games. You know what the average day look like? Very long, a lot of yelling and screaming. The first facility I went to, you know, they gave me two nine ounce cups of water. There was no running water in the cell.
- [125:27]
A
That was it for your day.
- [125:28]
B
Yeah. Yeah. You couldn't. Like you had to ask to have your toilet flushed. It was really tough. I'm not going to lie. I'm man enough to say it was really tough. It didn't really get easier, you know, the facility that I was at, everything that I learned from tv, like, when do I get my phone call? When do I get. Everything was so controlled, you know, I was like, when can I get my phone call? They're like, well, when we get the opportunity to give you a phone call, we have to vet who you're going to call. I never heard that on television. You know, I never seen shows like that, but that was the conquer and control they proceeded to manipulate me with. I had to hide how damaged I was, but I also, you know, I had to, you know, preserve enough energy if I had to fight or defend myself, you know. After a couple of weeks, they moved me to another facility which was really robust. Like, this was a super max facility.
- [126:23]
A
How do they move you? They chain you up?
- [126:25]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [126:26]
A
Vehicle.
- [126:27]
B
Yeah. U.S. marshals, they. They chain you all up. I was. I was shackled to the side. A chain went around my belt. One went down to my legs in the front. One went down, legs in my back. You know, they put a lock over everything. And then, you know, you're in. You're in a van in the back of a van, and then another police car in the front. All lights and sirens. So they took me to this other facility, which was brand new, that just opened up, like, literally. I got there the end of March, and they just opened up the beginning of March, and it was all, like, hard hitters, like, all murderers, arson, you know, really bad players in this facility.
- [127:05]
A
Did you have a toilet that flushed?
- [127:06]
B
Yeah. That facility was much different. Yeah.
- [127:09]
A
Individual rooms.
- [127:09]
B
Yeah. Okay. Individual rooms. I was always by myself. I would. Because I went from confinement to confinement. So. Excuse me. When I went to that facility, the warden came up to me right away and she's like, listen. You know, because my lawyers were briefing me. So, you know, you know, the judicial branches, you know, you know, the system. Yeah. And what a lot of people don't understand is that a judge really doesn't have the position. He sets the sentencing. And I want your audience to really understand this because a lot of people are. Are constantly. Monday night quarterbacking this. A judge anywhere in the continental United States says the sentence. He doesn't set the terms and conditions of the sentence. That's the prison. That's the Department of Corrections. The Department of Corrections, in every human being's instance, is evaluated. Right. You're in a. Unbeknownst to you, somehow, they're watching you on cameras. But you're in an assessment. The assessment is dictated by. Do you have tattoos? Do you have scars? Like, I got a couple gunshot wounds. I've got some scars and stuff. Do you have tattoos?
- [128:11]
A
How'd you get shot?
- [128:12]
B
Working.
- [128:14]
A
Where?
- [128:14]
B
Overseas.
- [128:16]
A
Who shot you?
- [128:18]
B
Not nice people. People that they shouldn't have been shooting at me.
- [128:21]
A
Okay, so in, like, personal protection?
- [128:24]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. PSD work. Yep.
- [128:27]
A
Okay.
- [128:28]
B
Yep. So you don't have any gang affiliations. You don't have any radical ideologies. You know, your competent, you know you're willing to comply, you know, you're willing to sell your political affiliation. You will like, you know, my religious, you know, it's a long form. And then in that evaluation is where then the housing. They call the Department of Corrections assigns you for me. They put me right in with like, like terrible people, like really bad people. And I was like, wow. And it was interesting because when I finally got. I joke on other podcasts about it's like murder, murder, arson, zoning violator. You know, I get out of the confinement and I get into general population and it's not anything like I've seen on tv. And you know, do I have bad actor friends? You know, I know some people have done in the drunk tank or maybe did a few. I don't. Nothing like what I experienced and nothing like what I have visually experienced. Do you, you recognize what I'm talking about? Like, it was a complete disconnect for me. Like I was like, listen, can I have my Bible in here? They're like, no, you're in solitary. You're in isolation. You're in this special housing unit. You can't, you know, you cannot have anything in here. And I'm like, wait, what? Like I have. And that's the thing is that you don't have rights, you know, in. In a. In that.
- [129:50]
A
That charge were they holding you on?
- [129:52]
B
So that's the thing is that everyone articulates. My only felony charge is interfering with law enforcement duties.
- [129:59]
A
Okay, so it wasn't a zoning violation.
- [130:01]
B
No, no, the zoning. The zoning violation was the civil contempt of court.
- [130:06]
A
So this stems from you being pulled
- [130:07]
B
over by and fighting with a police officer. Right. What. Excuse me. What the system really equates to was two components. The judge and the civil right said, once we get him locked up, he will stay until we demolish his property.
- [130:26]
A
Wow.
- [130:27]
B
And I had to serve that time until weeks later, you know, all the bulldozers are gone, everything is cleaned up. Then they're like, okay, that's done. Then I went in front of the justice for the criminal, fighting with the cop. Okay. That took time and it took procedure. I ultimately got bailed out on that, but it took a long time.
- [130:47]
A
And you were in prison during that, correct? Waiting.
- [130:50]
B
Yeah.
- [130:51]
A
What was it like interfacing with those people in the general population environment? Is there a lot. Do you interface? Only at meal times. Can you avoid and be by yourself if you want to be.
- [131:03]
B
So I was the anomaly because I didn't know you know, there's no rule book. There isn't. You know, my lawyers are like, oh, we'll hire a guy we put away and he'll coat. I'm like, no, I don't need that. What I did know some fundamental things. Like, I knew when I got out of isolation, I needed to find out whoever was in charge. And the prison system they call the shot caller, who holds the key, that's like the main guy there among their notoriety, affiliation, whatever. There's one leader in the facility I was in. I talk about him frequently because I still communicate with him. He's 25 to life. You know, he's a murderer. I mean, when I got out of isolation, within an hour or two, I. I found him. Like I asked. They're like, it's that brother over. There was a roster, Jamaican guy. And I went over to him and I. I brought my paperwork with me because they want to see your paperwork. And I'm like, hey, how you doing? He goes, good. I go, my name is Daniel. He goes, yeah, I know. I said, you want to look at my paperwork? He goes, no, we know who you are. You're on every television in here. I hadn't been able to see television for weeks, months, because I'm in isolation, but the general population could. So this guy, Bugs, made my life real easy, I feel. Although he probably would never say it publicly, he probably saw me as a threat somehow from whatever the media depicted. Maybe my size, maybe my stature, whatever. You know, I presented an alpha type guy. You know, I was very injured. You have to remember, I'm, you know, stemming from all this pain and issues. I have no medical right. No medical.
- [132:40]
A
When did you finally get seen?
- [132:42]
B
I got seen the week I got out.
- [132:44]
A
Wow. I don't see how that's legal, how they can't.
- [132:48]
B
None of it's legal. You know, we're coming to the, you know, the challenges, you know, the statute of limitations. We're coming very close to the terms of, you know, when you could. When you can file, when I can have an offensive. I'm in a defensive position right now. What's going to happen is win, lose, or draw a defensive, excuse me, an offensive motion. I will sue everyone. Right? And there has been a. There's been a collaborative movement from prison folks, prison staff, which some treated me fairly and some treated me unethically. There's. There will always be a whistleblower. There will always be some inquiry, minds. Somehow the authenticness, authenticity of what has happened to me will come out and it will come to fruition in a lawsuit because everything that has happened to me, and then, you know, you may sit here too, and be like, this is like, how can I believe it is fact? And it will come out to the general public through law, lawsuits, your depositions, you know, etc. And, you know, back to the incarceration part. Like, those guys, those you know, murderers, you know, were very confrontational, but I think somehow they formed a narrative from what the media depicted and didn't want to challenge me. I didn't want any trouble. You know, like I had told this guy and his other subordinates, like, listen, I'm, you know, number one, you're not going to. To hustle me down, right? You know, number two, I'm not helping you. You know, I'm not. And I just cohabitated with them. You know, at times there was some real comic relief. You know, the, you know, the facilities didn't have a division of psychiatrics, so someone that was straight up looney bin was in, you know. You know, like, I tell my family, like, I live on a farm. The roosters are going like crazy at. At, oh, 3:30, I couldn't get away from. There was a guy two. Two cells down. I'm like, what the. I can't get away from these roof. Like, literally, I'm not joking. A guy starts acting like a chicken because he identified as a rooster.
- [134:57]
A
So did the shot caller just basically tell everybody to leave you alone?
- [135:00]
B
I'm not really sure what he did do. I mean, he invited me to eat at his table, so I was like the only guy that I got to eat at his table. We became friends very quickly. You know, he ate meat, I didn't. So we exchanged food. You know, he wasn't a vegetable guy, so I was constantly eating fruits and vegetables that he didn't want. So, you know, we worked out an arrangement very quickly. I mean, he was a small guy, maybe 130 pounds, you know, but you put that word K or M, Killer, Murderer.
- [135:26]
A
Yeah.
- [135:26]
B
You know, so there was a premise of, like, maybe don't mess with him, but then I'm £273 right next to him. I think he used that to his benefit. I mean, I definitely saved them a few times, like, from almost getting in fights, but where we were was very, very bad. If you got a ticket or if you had an altercation.
- [135:46]
A
What's a ticket?
- [135:47]
B
You know, you got it written up.
- [135:48]
A
Okay.
- [135:48]
B
Yeah. So, you know, I'd always tell them, I'm like, listen, I'll help you as long as you stay out of trouble, you know. Right. Don't. Don't inflict any trouble here. We don't want any drama here. Like, you know, let's just cohabitate. And it was unorthodox. You know, I did some other cucumbani stuff in there, you know, to keep my sanity and say, how'd you spend your days? You know, I would just walk around. I mean, once I got the general population, I could start getting a material like books, magazines, newspapers. You know, I antagonize some of the COs, you know, you know, mess.
- [136:16]
A
Corrections officers.
- [136:17]
B
Yeah, correction officers. Yep. You know, like I formed a gang. Like I was like, I put a sign up sheet, you know, meet us over the pillar on the far right. Thursday at 6. Gang initiation meeting.
- [136:27]
A
What'd you call the gang?
- [136:28]
B
I was gonna call it Lost Dreidels because they hated Jews. And I was, I was, you know, I was categorized as a Jew because I got a kosher meal and the news that I was a Jew. And so I was going to call Los Dreidels and I made a hand gang symbol and you know, I just did cucumini stuff. But, you know, I just tried to keep my own sanity, keep the peace. You know, I really couldn't stand the running and yelling. So I really tried to get involved with stopping that. And you know, I don't. I'm going to be honest, I don't want to go back. You know, I've got, you know, a really complex trial, you know.
- [137:07]
A
Yeah. Where is the, where is the legality of all this sit today.
- [137:11]
B
So, you know, I'm going to take a trial by my peers. The trial is supposed to be at the end of this month. It's been delayed since last year. My trial was supposed to be in August last year, then September, then October, then November. It, you know.
- [137:23]
A
But on what charge?
- [137:25]
B
Interfering with law enforcement duties.
- [137:26]
A
Gotcha. Okay.
- [137:27]
B
It's a single felony count.
- [137:29]
A
Okay.
- [137:29]
B
Okay. So I'm hoping that, you know, the articulation of, of really the background of the police officer, you know, I was a law abiding citizen before that. You know, all of the innuendos and commentary, you know, about character assassination, the terrible things that people say, you know, that really doesn't have anything to do with facts. What the case is predicated on his facts. Here's the police department. Here's the prosecutor, like this prosecutor Jared Bianchi, right? He's been in trouble two times in the last year, one time for photoshopping evidence. Okay? This is fact. We can Google it second time for manufacturing evidence.
- [138:09]
A
And this is a prosecutor.
- [138:10]
B
Prosecutor, State.
- [138:10]
A
He still has his job.
- [138:11]
B
Yes. So we're going to use these things in other things. Like my lawyer was just like, we were just in court last Monday. Like, he's like, your Honor, he shot a guy evading in the back. You're never supposed to do that. Probation. But my client, Daniel. Stephen Bunny's got a. You're offering him 12 to 15. Here's the other bad part, which I don't often talk about, but Vermont doesn't have long term incarceration sent elsewhere. Yeah, Mississippi. It changes. You know, they have contractual obligations, but right now, the current contract is with Mississippi. So if I have to do a stent of jail one year and one day over, I'm going to Mississippi.
- [138:51]
A
Damn.
- [138:52]
B
I have, you know, I've, you know, my friends, family. It would be very difficult, but we're, We're. We're slowly bringing the disconnection of reality back, right? And we piecemeal it. We slowly disseminate information. We slowly show people. Let me just give you another example. Same thing last Monday in court. This gentleman, Mr. Crossman, was another guy on the board always voting against me. So last year, his son brutally killed him. His, his own father, his sibling, and his stepmother. Okay? These are the things that happen in my community after orally, anally, and vaginally assaulting the mother. And then he got a chainsaw out. We'll leave it at that. That didn't even make it in the news. On the same day I was in court, I was in the front page of every first zoning violator. And people are like, wait a minute, you got a guy that did this horrible stuff in the news. They placated. That's how, you know, everyone's always like, daniel, you're using the wrong words. Prejudice, bias, conflict of interest, whatever. I'm like, but that story is way bigger than a zoning violator. You know what I mean? And yeah, here it is. So this guy didn't even make it into the news, but my story does. Yeah.
- [140:15]
A
I don't know what to make of that. I wish there weren't stories out there like these.
- [140:19]
B
Right? And that's the troubling aspect of that. Favoritism, nepotism, corruptions, kind of. I trademarked that saying, and I've kind of been running with that. And you know, like, like, listen, that guy's. The father was not a good guy, you know, anti gun, whatever. But he didn't deserve to die. Whatever. But what I'm saying is, is that this anomaly of how eccentric these people are in my community and the radical stuff they do. Let me give you another quick example. You know Robert Kraft, right?
- [140:48]
A
Owner of the Patriots. I'm not going to say that I know him.
- [140:51]
B
Okay, but you know of him. Okay. Okay.
- [140:53]
A
Two very different statements.
- [140:54]
B
Okay. Okay, perfect. Thank you for the clarity for your audience. His best friend, Mr. Maczynski, Lee Mechinski, he's a mogul in my state, in my community. He's a big real estate developer. They were both caught in Coral Springs, Florida.
- [141:10]
A
You heard the story, massage parlor.
- [141:12]
B
Yeah, but they were charged with 17 year old Asian human trafficked girls. They were ankle shackled to the wall. Now that guy gets charged with that, comes back up to my community, he's hailed as a hero. Why? Because he didn't do it in our state and he did it in another state.
- [141:32]
A
Who hailed him as a hero?
- [141:33]
B
The community, his constituents, the cohabitants.
- [141:37]
A
They told him, good job.
- [141:38]
B
You know what they said? We're not going to worry about this, Lee, because you didn't do it in Vermont. You would never come here. You would never do that.
- [141:46]
A
I don't know if that's hailing him as a hero.
- [141:48]
B
They, they held him still. There was no protesting. There was no, you know, not supporting the various restaurants like people collectively and collaboratively. They held them as a hero. I can't articulate to you how. But there was no negative attributes to his behaviors or his, you know, I mean, he died, he never got charged. You know, he died before the, you know, the hearing and whatnot. But the moral alliance is like, listen, you could have went to a rub and tug anywhere else. They didn't have to be minors chained to the wall. They didn't. You didn't have to do it with Robert. You know what I mean? Like all these components. But that wasn't mainstream media. Me, a zoning violator, was.
- [142:38]
A
Yeah, I don't know what to make of that.
- [142:41]
B
And that's a hard pill to swallow when you look at, you know, how did these folks incentivize, how did they profiteer the components of radicalizing a system that's supposed to be protect us? How did they get people to get behind their movement? And that's the types of conquer and control. They control the media, they controlled the verdict. You know, like I said in the beginning, the attorney, the prosecuting attorney's law partner, being the executor at the largest media source, like my attorneys are always like, you're divulging Confidential, client protected information. You don't have any proof of that? Well, yeah, it's in the front page of the news on the, it's on the radio. Like, only we know that. How did it get. We don't know.
- [143:31]
A
Yeah. I think the bigger or a big issue is that the systems have to be, they have to be corrected. This, the initiation of what seems to have started all of the problems for you, this retroactive clawback, essentially, if the system is able to be manipulated in that way, we need to correct the system.
- [143:55]
B
Right.
- [143:56]
A
I don't know how we do that. I'm not a constitutional scholar or legal expert by any stretch, but that to me is where the linchpin in this is, because people are always going to have beliefs and there will always be extreme beliefs on both edges. So you have, to the best of your ability, create a system where those extreme beliefs can't manipulate the system. That's supposed to serve everybody well.
- [144:18]
B
Correct. And would it be safe to say, and I don't mean to put you on the spot here, but I think I know the answer. I try not to ask questions I, I don't know the answer to. But would you believe that that system should be in place no matter who you are?
- [144:29]
A
Of course the system's supposed to, it should serve.
- [144:32]
B
Okay.
- [144:33]
A
I mean, it should stand up to the, and this is probably impossible to do so, but the blind standard, it should look at the facts and base the result off of that, not the other little small lever movers that are there. So it should serve the truth or the system should serve in the way that it is designed to, regardless of the amount of pressure on each side that people should be putting on it or.
- [144:56]
B
Correct.
- [144:57]
A
Put on it. Yeah, correct.
- [144:58]
B
So what is inflammatory is, is that folks, legislators, politicians, political adversaries and its constituencies came up and said, Daniel, if you chose motocross, if you chose archery, if you chose paintball, and there's a plethora of other examples of what I should have chose.
- [145:18]
A
They mean from a business model?
- [145:19]
B
From any model.
- [145:20]
A
Yeah.
- [145:21]
B
The utilization of my property model, flying kite school, because I chose firearms is what intoxicated the situation.
- [145:31]
A
It's a divisive topic, regardless of beliefs. I mean, it's one of the biggest issues too, is that some of the most vocal Second Amendment advocates are, in my opinion, I only speak for myself, the largest threats to the Second Amendment community.
- [145:49]
B
You know, I didn't want to believe that for the longest time, but, you know, I'm not going to massage the fact that, you know, after I got, you know, higher federal firearms licenses. You know, there was that, you know, push and that talk, like, daniel, be careful. Right? You're drawing attention to yourself. Daniel, be careful. You're involving Uncle Sam. Daniel, be careful. But I always knew, or let me rephrase this. I. I assessed that I would have an anti gun pushback. I never in a million years believed that there would be other facets of it that controlled the narrative. If we just stuck to, hey, here's this guy. They throw in a New Yorker and my, my, you know, my education and this, that. And so if they would have just said, hey, here's this guy that tried to open up a gun place, boom. I would have had a. Not a level playing ground, but I would have, I wouldn't have been such in the negative. Does that make sense? You know, like one headline. Daniel Bonier living ew so close to New York City. Like, you know, it's comical, but the trigger words like, do you know Ben Shapiro?
- [147:06]
A
I know who he is, okay?
- [147:07]
B
I was his bodyguard for several years.
- [147:08]
A
Okay.
- [147:09]
B
He taught me.
- [147:09]
A
Is he tiny?
- [147:10]
B
Yeah. Yeah. He taught me very, very specifically about the social engineering of words. Like, when this started, I had just finished working for him and, you know, his mindset was of exactly what I endured and became receptive to. The prejudice, the culture shock, the radicalization, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I just encountered that in a different facet. Not because I was a person of color or because I was a homosexual or because, you know, I was a Buddhist, you know, it was because I was a gun guy. And then other elements that characterized me as bad. You know, Vermont has a term flatlander. I didn't know what that term meant, but it's a very derogatory term to people like me.
- [147:57]
A
What does it mean?
- [147:59]
B
To this day, I still don't know. But, But I think the flatlander is anyone from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut or Massachusetts. Maybe we can look it up and we can learn this.
- [148:06]
A
But is the land historically flat?
- [148:07]
B
Well, it's like, you know, I had somebody's agency guys that came and, you know, they, they lived their whole life in, in Colorado. And they're like, flatlander.
- [148:15]
A
You don't know, outsider tourists or people from lower altitude. What's the altitude in Vermont?
- [148:22]
B
It's not that high. But, you know, listen, I believe the polarization, the narratives, the trigger words, you know, they really listen. This Merrill Bent Bianchi, this system, this Judge Durkin, some of the most prominent legal scholars were like, daniel, if the hoopla, if the, all of the negative rhetoric about you was not aligned or affiliated with this. We would have won this case.
- [148:56]
A
It's a hypothesis.
- [148:57]
B
Right, right. But in case law, you know, so, so the National Rifle association, nra, okay, their civil defense fund was, you know, funding a large portion. You know, I, I, I don't expect you to even believe what this costs
- [149:12]
A
legally, but, oh, I can only fathom, right?
- [149:15]
B
Enormous amounts of money.
- [149:16]
A
Six high six figures, if not seven.
- [149:19]
B
They had supported another place in my state one time, many years ago, was just another guy like me, a farmer. Started as a farmer. He wanted some competition shooters to come and they attacked him so bad that at that point they won. But his case was different than mine because he was commercial based, like he was trying to do like a top gun, you know, sponsors, you know, heavy monetization, heavy financial profit. Marvel.
- [149:47]
A
Yeah, he's running it as a, as
- [149:48]
B
a business, a business model. They won. But at that point, the civil defense fund and NRA was like, forget about Vermont. You know, retracted any involvement. You know, got, got totally isolated from the state, even with their NRA affiliations, you know, the dinners, because I used to do all that stuff.
- [150:06]
A
I thought the NRA was supposed to be for all gun owners.
- [150:09]
B
And, and, and that's what the model alludes to. You know, whether I'm on a radio station, TV station, whatever. People like Daniel, what does Vermont's model pitch? They say, listen, we're pro gun and we're pro LGBTQ plus. No, they say that so that if you're in Sacramento, California and you're in a gay couple, you'll say, well, Vermont is an option, but we'll just not choose it. You know, you're somewhere else in the country, like, oh, I want to go to an open carry constitution, say Vermont. But then they don't choose it. Luckily, they don't choose it because if they got there, like me, thinking that was true, you could be faced with similar retractions of your rights. Similar.
- [150:49]
A
Allow constitutional carry.
- [150:50]
B
They do. But, you know, you're, you're, you're, you know, people call the police people. You know, I feel threatened, I feel harassed. You know, it's confrontational. You know, God forbid someone butts up on touch. I was battered. Listen, it's a whole textbook, brother. These folks, it's beyond premeditation. It's a mastery.
- [151:10]
A
So what do you hope people get out of this conversation?
- [151:13]
B
I hope and I believe the movement is coming, that people are saying, okay, I don't care. He likes guns. I don't care. Affiliates with black people and gay people and this and that. What happened to him is a serious situation. We don't like Daniel, but this could happen to us. This, this, this now has come into a historical precedent. This is a component within the Supreme Court that can be used as a tool. Anything like a reference, we go to the dictionary.
- [151:44]
A
So the Supreme Court upheld the clawback.
- [151:46]
B
That's correct.
- [151:46]
A
And so that's my issue. If they used a mechanism that is in place for a purpose like this, assume that the many hypothesis hypotheses, hypothesized,
- [152:03]
B
if it's plural, it's hypotheses, hypotheses about
- [152:07]
A
the motivations and beliefs of the people that came after. You are in line with what you said. They were able to manipulate a system that I don't know if it was designed to be used for this purpose to achieve their end state. And that should be a threat to everybody.
- [152:23]
B
Right. They call weaponization of zoning.
- [152:25]
A
And then that needs to be fixed. Otherwise it's going to work for you until you find yourself. And this could be for anybody. And most people may listen to this and say, well, I don't start a business. This, that or the other. That's all great. But the same principles apply if the system has back end levers that you can move and manipulate based off of being an activist. That's a danger to everybody and those systems should be corrected.
- [152:52]
B
Right. So when what you're saying is absolutely true and it's, it is powerful, but they go the next step, they say, listen, we have to adopt new principles and we need to prevent anyone even trying. So we set a precedent. For example, come and try to open up a yoga school. I didn't even know there was welding schools. Karate school. Karate school.
- [153:15]
A
Do you think people learn welding, sir?
- [153:17]
B
Right, but, but you see what I'm saying, like I didn't know the official authentication. Like I could say Bubba Ducks Gun Range, like no one ever knows. But you know, it made sense to me to say karate school, yoga school. I'm just being honest and, and transparent
- [153:31]
A
of when the, when the talking about in Vermont.
- [153:34]
B
In Vermont.
- [153:35]
A
What would happen if you tried to open a yoga school?
- [153:37]
B
Can't do it now.
- [153:38]
A
What do you mean you can't do it?
- [153:40]
B
They took away school as a condition of approval. If you want to have a school now, now what you have to do when it was approved before Daniel Bonney, all the way back it was approved. Now you have to go through a whole nother calamity. Developmental developmental review board. You have to ask a quasi judicial system what they think. And as the statute from the state level, you have to have a matriculated nationally accredited
- [154:09]
A
rubric to be a yoga studio. What if you call yourself a yoga studio?
- [154:13]
B
That's fine, that's fine. Studio. Any word. You just can't go and say you're a school anymore. What I'm really trying to say is like you're perseverating on the, on the wording. What I'm asking you to do is look at their actions. They saw what I was entitled to. I didn't open the book up. I mean, gun range was on there, believe it or not. And a lot of people didn't realize that. But I wasn't just a gun range and you could choose one or another.
- [154:37]
A
No school was more fitting.
- [154:38]
B
Right. So I choose school. What their actions are, we need to take that away. No more school, no more training.
- [154:46]
A
That's the back end lever of the system that an activist could use.
- [154:48]
B
Right.
- [154:49]
A
It's actually a threat to everybody.
- [154:50]
B
Right.
- [154:51]
A
To include the activists when people on the other side of whatever belief system gets in place.
- [154:56]
B
Right. Yes.
- [154:57]
A
You can open an independent school in Vermont, but a legislative morator's new independent schools has been in place since 2022, creating significant hurdles. Yeah. Obtaining state approval essential for receiving public tuition funds is heavily restricted under Act 73 of 2025.
- [155:10]
B
Right. So karate school. You really think a karate at a dojo is going to write up a curriculum and a route like, I would
- [155:16]
A
hope so, otherwise, what are they just doing? Teaching by feelings?
- [155:19]
B
No, but what I'm saying is, is that the, the moral of the story is, is that cognitively I agree cognitively I'm receptive to a policy and procedure. What is offensive is that that you all said for 200 years we could come and zone this property as a school. So it is a church.
- [155:38]
A
Yeah.
- [155:39]
B
Someone did it, you didn't like it, so they take it away.
- [155:42]
A
Yeah. You have to remove that mechanism.
- [155:44]
B
Right? Right.
- [155:45]
A
Yeah. So it can't be manipulated.
- [155:46]
B
Right.
- [155:46]
A
Yeah.
- [155:47]
B
And that's what's powerful. And then coming down to the components where now they want to restrict control, conquer, you know, your, your opposition. You know what I mean? You're. How can I present a rebuttal? I want to be arbitrary. How do you do that? Like what it looks like on the outside is this can't be true, but on the inside, there is a certain level of individuals that need to somehow get behind the movement and say enough is enough. Right. Like you're saying these mechanisms how do we, you know, we could appeal them. You know, no one, no one's gone to appeal them. You know. You know, right when I started building the range, they did the magazine ban. You know, Magtech, all these. Travis Haley, all these guys are up at the Capitol giving away hundreds and thousands of ma. You know, that's great, but you didn't send any activism. You didn't say, I'm not pinpointing any one person or trying to appoint accountability. I want that for the record. I'm just saying, like, no one went to mitigate the loss of a Second Amendment person saying, okay, no more high capacity magazines. And what was also inflammatory is that the organizations that are in Vermont, and it's like, there's Gun Owners of Vermont and there's a Vermont Sportsman's Association. They're another group of people that are very biased towards gun rights. Let me, let me give you a perfect example. Mr. Chris Davis. He's the chair of the Vermont Coalition for Firearms Owners in Vermont. Right? It's a sportsman's club or whatever. I think there's 17,000 strong. He calls me up one day and he goes, you know, on a request from your lawyer, I wanted to collaborate with you. I said, okay, Mr. Davis, I don't. I don't know, I think he's maybe 70, I'm 55. He's. I mean. So he says to me, because I want to talk to you about gun rights and, and why we haven't been a gun rights advocate for you. I said, Please, Mr. Davis, it's been three, four years we've been calling upon. He goes, I'm gonna ask you a series of questions. Mr. Bonnie go, no, it's just Daniel. Daniel, Chris. Daniel.
- [157:50]
A
Yeah.
- [157:52]
B
You let people shoot and move there. I said, excuse me. Because you let people shoot their firearms and move now. I wanted to give an immediate answer, like, it's just to be reciprocated. Like, yes, But I'm like, can you. He goes, you have benches. I go, no, sir. He goes, so people can stand and move towards their target or back. I go, yes. He goes, yeah, no, we don't stand for that. So I said, well, I said, sir. I go, that's protected under the Constitution, the right to bear arms. He goes, no, no, no, no, no. He goes, daniel, this is where you're wrong. He has the Vermonter. Listen, I have this recorded. It's. It's in. It's in a discovery. So someone wants to call me out and I'll send it to him. He says, daniel, the Vermonter gets their gun out. We go on a bench, we sit down, we, you know, we put a couple of sandbags, we fire a couple rounds. Maybe we talk to our buddies, whatever. We clean our guns and we go. He goes, I'm here. And you're letting people walk around shooting multiple targets, preaching this. You know, maybe he didn't use that word, but I'm like, yeah, no, no, no, no, we don't.
- [158:55]
A
Who has the audacity to speak for.
- [158:57]
B
But that. That's where their activism becomes prejudice or bias.
- [159:03]
A
I wouldn't even call that activism. I don't know what I would call that, other than being intellectually lazy.
- [159:09]
B
Well, I had said to him in the install, I said, sir, what are you. What are you doing for people then? Like, what is your representation for gun rights owners? It should be unequivocally the right to bear arms. There should be. I should have someone be able to come black, that's gay, that's a Jew, that's in a wheelchair. You got a problem with that? Like, I don't understand the provisions or the terms and conditions that you are putting on your advocacy to help Second Amendment people. You understand what I'm saying? Like, he's saying, Our 17,000 strong in the state of Vermont are not going to support you, Daniel Bonier, or Slate Ridge because you are letting people shoot and move. And I'm like. And I let them communicate.
- [159:50]
A
Yeah, it's a good idea, especially if there's more than one, you know?
- [159:54]
B
So, like, I was like, listen, I don't understand that's.
- [159:57]
A
That's so odd to me. I don't understand that either.
- [160:01]
B
You know, it's no different than Eric Davis. So they're not related. But he's the chairman of Gun Owners of Vermont. You know, we've had some conversations, and
- [160:09]
A
what do they stand for? Do they allowed. Do they allow. Well, first off, no pun intended, do they allow people to stand and shoot?
- [160:15]
B
We never got to that. But what he doesn't stand for is any commentary, negative about a gun. Right. Owner.
- [160:24]
A
Any commentary negative about a gun?
- [160:26]
B
So I threw back to him. I said, now, he wanted to be Mr. Davis. He said. I said, Mr. Davis, so if someone has a DWI and they crash in a Toyota opposed to a BMW, who are you going to support more? And his attitude was kind of like, well, depends on the safety feature. I go, no, no, no, there's a problem there. The DWI is bad, period. We don't go into a selective. It's not diversity here. Like, we don't go like, do you see what the mindset is?
- [160:55]
A
Yeah. The dw, the issue there is predicated on the decision making.
- [160:58]
B
Right.
- [160:58]
A
Not the vehicle. That was right.
- [161:00]
B
But his attitude is the favoritism in. And, and, and what I was trying to get is there was a specific case in our state of a guy that got caught with a high capacity magazine.
- [161:10]
A
Okay.
- [161:10]
B
He was the first person the attorney general went after him hard. Huge, huge case. I mean, made national news. We had all these manufacturers. I had every one of my vendors in my ffl willing and I'm like, listen, like, I'm not, I'm not going giving anything away. Like, you know, I, I didn't, you know, I'll stand by. I actually told my lawyers, appoint a budget and we'll get behind. They didn't want to support him because he was a white nationalist. Now I didn't like that either, But I said, Mr. Davis, if we don't support him, we're hurting our rights. He goes, I don't see it that way. Okay, listen, do you like an arsonist? He goes, no, I don't like an arsonist. Okay, if the arsonist you don't like tomorrow has the remedy for cancer, the, you know, whatever would you take it from? He goes, no, because the narcissist. I go, that's ridiculous.
- [161:58]
A
Yeah.
- [161:59]
B
I go, that's just ridiculous. I cannot work with the forest for the trees. Right. I cannot work with you on that. But that division is what is separating the gun advocacy. That's what is the intellectualness. Right? We got smart. We, you know, you got people here, you got people listening, got people smart that are intellectual. You can decipher all those different anomalies. The matrix in that is saying, listen, I'm a pro gun guy 100%. I'm not going to look at the character. Right. Of the gun. You know, like you said, what happens if a guy drinks and I'm about how do we preserve our rights, right? And then how do we not discriminatively or non biasedly, you know, support like that guy. Oh, I'll, I'll go with the BMW because it has more features and trader like, I don't know, you can look at me as I'm crazy and, and please present that. But I don't see how that is normal. Right? If you're like, I'm a Christian. If you put a gun to my head and say, daniel, tell me you're a Catholic or I'm gonna blow your brains out, I'm not gonna do that. I'M a Christian, period. I'm a second day. I meant a second day. I'm a. I'm a Second Amendment advocate. I'm a Second Amendment proponent. I don't put any provisions on it and that. That there are people that do.
- [163:12]
A
Provisions on what?
- [163:13]
B
On. On the control of what our gun rights are.
- [163:17]
A
You think there should be no restrictions at all?
- [163:19]
B
No. Nope. Because I'm going to tell you this. I've never been enamored by fully automatic.
- [163:26]
A
No. I think I would prefer to have somebody shoot at me with a fully automatic.
- [163:29]
B
Right.
- [163:29]
A
Rifle.
- [163:30]
B
Right. I've never been enamored by a lot of the destructive devices or munitions that are out there that are 100 prohibited from the lay person. I've had access to them personally and professionally. Okay.
- [163:42]
A
Do you think people should be able to carry everywhere?
- [163:45]
B
I, I do. I, I do.
- [163:47]
A
Commercial airliners.
- [163:49]
B
No. No.
- [163:50]
A
See, you're putting restrictions on the Second Amendment.
- [163:52]
B
Yeah, Yeah.
- [163:53]
A
I had a guy argue with me online the other day.
- [163:55]
B
Yeah.
- [163:56]
A
We weren't arguing because I'm fine with people believing what they want.
- [163:59]
B
Right.
- [164:00]
A
He thinks that the Second amendment should mean, in his opinion, commercial airliners. Everybody's gunned up.
- [164:07]
B
Yeah.
- [164:08]
A
That is wild to me. I'm not here to tell people how to party. I, I struggle to understand that headspace.
- [164:16]
B
I can tell you this from a personal component. I've carried, you know, concealed on a fire on airlines. I've concealed in a lot of places that when I was credentialed, I was allowed to. I can say this. When I first got my rights as 18 years old to carry a pistol, it gave me a newfound look at how to be more responsible.
- [164:36]
A
Not everybody sees it like that.
- [164:37]
B
Right. And I've done a lot of youth advocacy. I do a lot of work with domestic violence survivors. I put guns in more hands for free than anyone in my state. I've donated more ammunition, more gear. Ask Safari land, all these places. Like, I'm that guy. But I have been always about responsible gun ownership. But I have never said a provision or a technicality or a ultimatum on the gun rights ownership. Meaning you want to put a gun in your waistband. I feel you should do that after you pass a 4473. The other extracurricular.
- [165:19]
A
Let's be honest, the 4473 is a dog shit form that stops nothing.
- [165:22]
B
Right. But now they're using it as a catalyst to stop marijuana users from having firearms.
- [165:28]
A
Is that state dependent?
- [165:30]
B
I feel like that's federal. I, I got. When I, you know, I Don't have my federal firearms license now. You know, I mean, you know, you, you know, I hope not to be a convicted felon, but, you know, the felony accusation is very inflammatory and everything went away very quickly. I'm sure it can come back. But at this, at this point, the crusade is to prevent from being a prohibited person in that, you know, when, when marijuana came legal in Vermont, people are smoking cannabis, like cigarettes legal here as well. Yeah.
- [166:02]
A
Recreational, medicinal.
- [166:03]
B
So the ATF came down very hard on me and saying, listen, you need to monitor that. You know, you need to have an unequivocal, you know, policy and procedure on that. And I'm like, it just starts with my religious beliefs and on my property there is no drugs or alcohol.
- [166:18]
A
Yeah. How are you supposed to monitor that?
- [166:19]
B
I know, but it's just, you know, it's just like other, other provisions and sanctions they've tried to have me adopt to or, you know, participate in. And, you know, I've. Listen, it's a love hate relationship. You know what I mean? It's no different than, you know, out of state law enforcement agencies that would, you know, fly into Slate Ridge. You know, they would send their guns in. You know, from a technical legal standpoint, the guns should go in the acquisition book and then get signed out. But I was able to find a clause with the chief Leo Chief Law Enforcement letter that the guns could come in with a signing of a temporary guardianship under my name with the Chief Law enforcement level Chief Law Enforcement letter. Now, there were times where, you know, federal agencies were like, no. And I'm like, listen, if a chief comes in or whoever could be the highest rank, deputy, sheriff, captain, lieutenant, I think the law at that time was a sergeant or above. They might have redacted that and made it something different. So don't quote me, but I'm like, who's going to send 20 officers in? And then I got to go through 24,473 forms. Like, come on, that's ludicrous. And I'm like, you're, you're trying to prohibit what I'm advocating for. Development, growth training, reality based training. Like, you know, so listen, you, when you test the waters and you push, there's going to be pushback. And I faced ultimate, you know, hearing while I was incarcerated, you know, from loved ones, that the property was completely bulldozed. There's nothing left. I lost my animals. I lost, you know, barns, horses, cows, sheep, donkey. You know, it's a hard pill to swallow. It was, it was really infuriating and you know, the, the movement now is to prevent it from ever happening again. You know, even when we had an advocacy like come to Slate Ridge, it was never, it was never by accolades or awards or certifications. We just said, listen, come to Sight Ridge, maybe you're going to see your idol or whoever you're enamored with in the parking lot or hosting the class. We didn't market it that way, we didn't advocate that way. We wanted reality based training from real life scenarios for people to get proficient with using their firearms and a self defense measure. It was contrary to the, to the stereotypical, oh, sportsmanship, you know, hunting, you know, in, in. I hope that people learn from this and, and someone does either get in close proximity or in Vermont and tries to open something else up. You know what I mean? Because without this, that's why, you know, Vermont has a very high crime rate. You know, we're the highest in fentanyl. We're the highest with all these other, you know, really ridiculous burglary, armed robberies, assaults, sexual assaults. I mean, just, it's, it's, it's, it's traumatizing, you know, and really what it was is the town weaponizing the zoning, manipulating a system that should have protected us, you, me, everyone else. And it looks like it can happen again. And that's kind of the movement that these crusaders, these actors, you know, like the, this Merrill Bent Bianchi, she's going to other towns, you know, changing the verbiage a little bit, changing the narrative a little bit, but you know, disseminates it into the media. And then, you know, they're trying to shut down. This farmer trying to stop all ATV recreational like, you know, it's just what's next? Like soon you have to eat with a spork, not a fork. Like, you know, I know I romanticize it and it sounds like I'm exaggerating, but if they do one little thing, what else are they capable of?
- [170:06]
A
I mean, that could be considered catastrophizing the situation, but also the breadcrumbs could be followed as well.
- [170:12]
B
Right?
- [170:12]
A
Assuming you prevail and you're not a prohibited person after your trial, what are you going to do with the rest of your life?
- [170:19]
B
Well, I'd like to get back to being physically and mentally healthy. You know, I have some clients that I've protected over my career. You know, they never turn their back on me. You know, I could go, you know, abroad and start working for various different organizations that I, you know, people that I have a reputation with that I didn't let down and I'd like to, you know, get back behind a gun and start working and, you know, either dignitary protection or some type of protection, you know, I, I don't know the fruits and loins of doing in the United States. You know, I've protected a lot of people here in the States, but even if I correct the, the reputation, there still is a level of tarnishment. Yeah. You know, I do have some prominent clients that would, that would bring me back, but I would fear the encounter if I did come face to face with law enforcement, how that would look. You know, I used to walk as an alpha with my head up high from a sheepdog mentality mentality, you know, even though it get expunged or whatever, is it a quick Google search or whatever. And that level of toxicity could become competitiveness and I'm just not interested in that, that, you know what I mean?
- [171:32]
A
What are you gonna do when it becomes time to hang up your gun for a living?
- [171:35]
B
I like to be a teacher, you know, I mean, I have two masters and a doctoral degree, so.
- [171:40]
A
Haven't you already had enough fun with the school? Do we really?
- [171:46]
B
I, I, I, I, I've seen some of the most argumentative and deceitful people turn a different side. And while my ego says that's a product of, of, you know, my intuitiveness, my, you know, how resilient I am. Even when I was in incarcerated, you know, little things. I told people, there's no more running. You know, I stopped the fighting. Was it me? I don't know. I like to think it was me. But, you know, I talked to talk and walk the walk, and I believe that was influential, you know, through my spirituality. They're like, listen, you know, I don't go out and mentor youth and say, you know, come on boys, come to the farm. We're gonna crack open a beer, we're going to smoke a joint, and we're going to eat, you know, pig's feet. I don't do that. And I think there is a group of people that are like, listen, no matter what Daniel is, he still has values, you know, he still has chivalry. He still has dignity in doing honorable things. And how can I translate that to other people into being, you know, better citizens or, or being a better human being? Like, like, you know, I've told the DA in my own community, like, you can't use me in some form of community service, you know, reduce the recidivism rate. You know, restorative justice. Like, I have a level of. Of. I have some components, I have some intellect that could be beneficial to you. Like, you know, how. How can I proctor that into helping folks? So I. I hope. I hope that it. It turns into something. I tell you this. I'm getting the. Out of Vermont as soon as my case is over.
- [173:20]
A
You think?
- [173:21]
B
Yeah, yeah, I'm getting out of there because it's just.
- [173:25]
A
You may just want to have your mail sent there and maybe get out of there now.
- [173:27]
B
Yeah, if that.
- [173:28]
A
First off.
- [173:29]
B
Yeah.
- [173:29]
A
That's not legal advice. I don't know.
- [173:30]
B
I know, I know.
- [173:32]
A
You know, like, I don't know if you're allowed to leave. Well, I mean, you're sitting here in Montana, so technically you're.
- [173:36]
B
Yeah, yeah. I don't know.
- [173:38]
A
Michael, call the police station and see if there's a warrant out. They're on their way.
- [173:41]
B
You know, I'm. I'm mean, I, I have. I have gotten, you know, psychologically unhealthy. You know, I've. Grade. I've. I've. You know, that's just called age. Yeah. But it. It, I. I think it. It's intensified because there's a. Listen, you more than me could. You know, there's a certain level of stress behind a gun. There's a certain level of stress in your marriage, a certain level of stress in education, and here. This level of stress that I've endured was of epic proportions because I never believed it could happen.
- [174:14]
A
Yeah, that's a tough one.
- [174:15]
B
I never believed.
- [174:16]
A
It's a paradigm shattering.
- [174:18]
B
Yeah, yeah. That paradigm shift is what, like I say, I opened up Pandora's box. And then that paradigm shift came, and I was just like, no, how is this happening?
- [174:29]
A
Yeah.
- [174:30]
B
And then the reality of other people believing it made it even more complex.
- [174:36]
A
What do you want to leave people with? We've been at it for almost three hours.
- [174:38]
B
Yeah, I want to leave people with this. Is that, you know, cause over character, you know, I want you to focus on the cause. I don't want people to give up. I want people to, you know, show their. Their. Their strength in advocacy for what they believe in. Listen, we're all got problems. We all have trials and tribulations. You know, we're all tackling many different things and complexities in this world, but the permitting system, the perm. The authenticity. The authenticity in the permitting process is set to protect us. It failed me, and it has now the precursors to fail others. And I want to make sure people say, listen, Okay. I don't care about this guy. I don't care about the mistakes he has. I don't care about. But this precedent could affect us. And I want to make sure than American people, Vermonters, but you know, the tri state area now they're muttering rhetoric about how they could utilize this precedent. Precedents move around the country very swiftly. I want to make sure that people understand that, that you have to stand up. If you're strong enough to do what I did, do it. But, you know, some legal banter, some legal academia, some. Something needs to be implemented than. It's just given up. You can't give up.
- [175:57]
A
Did you check luggage or carry on?
- [176:00]
B
Carry on.
- [176:01]
A
Okay. I'm still going to give you this anyway.
- [176:03]
B
Okay.
- [176:04]
A
I can mail this to you. By that, I mean Michael will do it.
- [176:07]
B
Okay.
- [176:07]
A
You're a fan of tactical things.
- [176:08]
B
Yes.
- [176:09]
A
Open that bad boy up. You heard of Montana Knife Company?
- [176:12]
B
No.
- [176:12]
A
I'll give you one guess where they're made.
- [176:14]
B
In Montana. Correct.
- [176:16]
A
I've had somebody who couldn't answer that question before, and I was concerned about actually giving them the knife.
- [176:20]
B
Knife. Okay.
- [176:22]
A
They're just down the road in Missoula, but awesome company. All the knives on the wall are Montana Knife Company blades.
- [176:30]
B
Wow.
- [176:31]
A
I went with a thinner model in case you go back to prison.
- [176:34]
B
Yeah.
- [176:35]
A
Easier to put in the wallet, if you know what I'm saying. So.
- [176:38]
B
Thank you, brother. Can he. Can he mail it to me?
- [176:41]
A
I mean, I'll mail it. His name is Whacker from here on out. Can he do it? Yes.
- [176:48]
B
It's okay. I. I'll just. Capable of mailing it. That's all good.
- [176:52]
A
Yeah.
- [176:52]
B
Thank you very much. No, I'll put.
- [176:53]
A
We'll write down on a. Yeah. Notebook or a little notepad. We'll get that to you easy enough.
- [176:57]
B
Yeah. All right. Beautiful.
- [176:58]
A
Awesome.
- [176:59]
B
Thanks. Yeah, thank you.
- [177:00]
A
Okay, Got the red smoke gun. Runs north or south?
- [177:05]
B
West of the smoke, west of the smoke.
- [177:08]
A
Okay. Copy west of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now.
- [177:13]
B
Oh.
- [177:13]
A
What? Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great.
- [177:26]
B
You love the host.
- [177:27]
A
You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion.
- [177:35]
B
And this is a podcast ad.
- [177:37]
A
Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts. Offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to libsynads. Com. That's L I B S Y N Ads. Com Today.