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Windshield, Not the Rearview Mirror | Full Auto Friday | 4.17.2026
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Okay, I got the red smoke. Sun runs north or south west of the smoke. West of the smoke. Okay, copy west of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now. Well, hello there, world. What a week it has been in my personal life. We're going to start with this. I don't have the vocabulary to describe how overwhelmed I am with the support that I have received far and wide from individuals, from brands, from friends when it comes to the release of the book. I'm sitting here. I got home last night at midnight. This is Thursday, the day before the episode comes out. Finished up. I was going to say a long stretch. It wasn't a long stretch. It felt like it. We left Sunday and we got back essentially Thursday morning. But Austin first to kick it off, I did a really awesome episode with Chris Williamson for his Modern William. Modern Wisdom almost called it the Modern Williamson show. Modern Wisdom that I think will be out next week. He puts a little bit more into the back end post production and then Joe's the next day and then went over to New York. I was supposed to do Fox and Friends on the day that the release came out, but it got pushed. But they were expecting some breaking news. Didn't happen. But I did Brian Kilmeade's radio show and then was on Fox and Friends specifically to talk about the book. Layered in a little bit of talk about Iran and blockades that I know almost nothing about. Spoiler alert. Never been a part of one. And I, I didn't know what to expect. I still don't know what to expect. Every day that I am involved in this is another day into the unknown. Because I have a Data point of 1 on all of this. I don't really have any expectations. Here's how. And this is how I went into approaching the book. I made no decisions in my life, no changes in my life predicated on the success of something that I had written that I didn't know how was going to be received. So I don't have to worry. I don't have a guillotine hanging over my head of, oh, I decided I was going to go buy a new house because the book is going to crush and of course it'll be a bestseller and then all of these things will just fall into my lap. No, that's not how I plan my life. I don't recommend anybody plan their life that way, just FYI, but also at the same time, party however you want to. And I just, I didn't know what to expect. And the book is by all measurable metrics. It's doing well. It peaked at number 13 on all books on Amazon yesterday. And as I sit here today like mid afternoon on Thursday, it's still like number 17. There's millions of copies. It's number one in one category, number two in another, and number three in another one. I don't know who this lady Mel Robbins is, but damn, she has some horsepower and apparently she writes a lot of books. And the books are good cause they are up there and they have been on these lists for like 50 to 66 months or weeks I should say. My really my only goal. I didn't realize this in the top 100, about half the books are children's books and Goodnight Moon was kicking my ass for a long period of time and I at least have a screenshot, even if it's a brief moment in time of me passing Goodnight Moon. So I think I can retire. At this point. I think I'm completely done. That was my only goal as somebody who wanted to write something and now I've accomplished that. So I guess it's all coasting downhill from there. Uh, I Again, I don't have the words for the thanks to the support. I do have one potential ask and this one costs nothing. If you have purchased the book, if you've read the book, if you've gotten the audio available for download, and if you've listened to it, there's one other step that'll take a few minutes of your time but cost you nothing. And that is reviews specifically on amaz Amazon. It would help if you enjoyed what you read. Do me a favor, leave an awesome review. If you hated the book, remember it's titled Extreme Ownership and it was written by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. Head over there. One and two star reviews there. Three. Put them wherever you want. Four and five right on the drown proof category. Obviously I'm joking. I am a fan of honesty and integrity. Put up there whatever you thought of the book. If you didn't like it, by all means put up there that you didn't like it. If you did, please rate and review it as you would feel is appropriate. But the reviews help as well too. Like I said, it cost you a few minutes and not a dime of money. I appreciate the money you've already spent to be supportive. I. I am blown away. People keep asking me when will you know if it hits bestseller lists of any type? Next Wednesday. All pre orders up until launch date and launch date into Saturday at midnight. I believe they calculate they release the list, the publisher might know by Tuesday night. I'll know sometime Wednesday unless my publisher gives me a call and that's it. And I have no expectations for that either, because all I want to do is have a positive impact. And I will say this, I've already gotten some messages back from people that said they found it in a time in their life which was important to them and it helped them already. And so that's as successful as I could be. And on that note, let's dive into our Friday episode. Before that though, let's pay the bills, let's keep the lights going on here. Quick ad read and then we're right into the show. Today's episode is brought to you by Willy's Remedy. Before I get into this, this is a new category of sponsor for the show and I'll be very clear here. You need to be an adult with the choices you make around these things. So educate yourself about the requirements of your personal and professional life before going further. Are you tired of waking up hungover? 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It's perfect for taking the edge off at the end of a long day or socializing with friends. Willys offers the kind of feeling that makes good company even better. Willys sold out three times in the first six months with over 50,000 plus happy customers and and they just restocked. Willy ships directly to your doorstep in 40/states. You can order now@drinkwillys.com and use code cleared hot for 20% off your first order plus free shipping on orders over $95 and enjoy life in the high country. Educate yourself on the requirements of perhaps your profession or social choices and make sure you make a good decision. Back to the show. All right, we're off and running. Question one. I got my notebook here. I have a new way. I'm using AI a little bit here to help me not write anything, but it's collating that the correct word, collecting whatever those two, the correct word in those is. And helping me and giving me a little bit more of just like a seamless process. It's not a big deal. I'm on the cutting edge of tech, really, right there on the razor's edge. Nobody even knows what's possible. So yeah, I think I'm using it to probably 0.001% of what it's capable of, but it's working well for me. Question one. Andy, I really enjoy the podcast and your interactions with Michael. I can see that you are trying to help him grow while giving him immense amounts of shit, which really warms my heart. It warms mine as well, too. And what people don't see the shows we do together is an hour of our day. We spend a good amount of time together. Michael's a fantastic kid. He is headed in the right direction. And honestly, the way that he conducts himself, and I'm not talking about on the show because oftentimes he drastically underperforms, both in what he brings to the conversations and his technical ability as the camera switcher guy slash producer. That last part is used very lightly. He leaves a lot to be wanting. But I've been there and I've been somebody who people have probably looked at and said, damn, I thought you could do more. But in the totality, he's a great kid and I. And like I said, the way he conducts himself gives me hope for the generations coming behind. Here we go. Additionally, your refusal to commit to absolutes and willingness to say I don't know is something I have noticed. The smartest people in my life do. I try to stay as true to myself as humanly possible. And I am not an expert at this point in my life. And I would say in anything. There was a time where tactically, I probably would have been considered an expert by measurable metrics, but that time of my life has come and gone. I'm very dated. I'm timed out at this point. I'm sure I'm still capable in many of those arenas, but am I current is the question. And so I always try to remember that and. And I always remember that I can only speak for myself and my experiences are just that. And I also just don't have the time and energy for an alternate personality. I don't think there's enough time in the day. And I also can't think of anything worse than having to constantly ask yourself, oh, what did I tell this person? What am I supposed to say here? Because you can't remember, because the narrative of your life deviates from the truth. That sounds like hell on earth to me. So into the question now, I was wondering whether you might have any insight on prestige or imposter syndrome. For context, I'm a 25 year old lawyer, a profession that bewilderingly carries with it a certain amount of prestige or at least on occasion elicits some people to say, wow, you must be smart, or that's impressive, or similar statements. I never know how to react to these statements and I struggle to respond because to me I haven't achieved anything remarkable. And I think people are just formalizing their idealized perception of the type of person a lawyer is rather than the reality. I deeply, deeply understand what you're talking about here because the parallels and people forming those perceptions, they're going to do that based off of watching Tom Cruise yell at Nicholas Cage on the stand and A Few Good Men or the Firm or Suits. I mean, that is for better or worse, people's optics on the profession. And every lawyer I know, sometimes they watch those shows, but they certainly don't watch them for historical accuracy or from the perspective of a documentary. They do it for purely entertainment. And they all say the same thing. If people only knew new, but they don't. Same thing with the SEAL community. I generally think that if they were more familiar with the way with the reality, they would be substantially less impressed. Normally I just make a joke to avoid it, but I am very young and very inexperienced. I often do not know what I'm doing professionally and personally. And I feel like I am the least qualified to be put on a pedestal by anyone. While I've accepted that I can't control someone else's perception of me, and it's strange, and it's a strange thing to be uncomfortable with, I am often uncomfortable. And in that moment, given your background, particularly at Seal Team 6, for clarity, I spent the minimum amount of time there. Yes, I was selected to go there. I made it through the training pipeline. I wish I could have stayed longer. Obviously I had a little bit of a workplace injury issue and needed to leave there to rehab. Probably both above the neck and below the neck, but minimal at best. Just trying to be, again, be honest about my time there. I suspect you've had similar interactions in the past and I was wondering if you have any advice on how you handle it, both in the moment, in that conversation, more generally. Thanks. It's a great question. I do get this one all the time. My previous life and job is defined by the misconceptions that people have, I'll just say, about a war fighting career in general. And what I realized long ago is this, regardless of what you say to anyone, you're not going to change the perception of the vast majority of people. So you could try to explain largely like you have here. You know, you'll make a joke and maybe bring people a little bit closer to reality and maybe that will help that one person shift their mindset. But you're not gonna shift the mindset of everybody else who has that unrealistic expectation. And I don't think it is worth anyone's time to really try to do so because the volume of information that they can get, although it's inaccurate drastically, is like a tsunami, a tidal wave, just smashing the microscopic amount of information that they could get from somebody who maybe comes from that world or works in that occupation. So don't actually try. Having said that, I completely understand imposter syndrome. I completely understand not feeling qualified to be put on a pedestal by anyone. But I will say is this, if they're saying something to you along the lines of wow, you must be smart or that's impressive, they may not be trying to put you on a pedestal. They're probably just saying that sounds like a really cool job. And maybe that's. Those aren't the words that they actually found. So it is not always them trying to put you on a pedestal. Sometimes they're just saying, man, that sounds like a really cool thing that you were doing. It's. And who knows what's going on in everybody's life, especially given what they may be going through. It may sound like something that is way more awesome than what they may be struggling through. Now having said that, if they truly understood the struggles that can come from your occupation or my old one, I don't think anybody would probably willing will want to swipe or swap places. But you never know where they're at. They might be at a low point seeing something like you, where you're at an aspirational high point and they're like, wow, that must be amazing. So here's what I would say this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states. Don't feel like you have to represent the entire community of lawyers. Just like you said, there is a bell curve. There are great performers and then there are subpar performers. And there's no way that you can represent all of that for everybody that you are going to to encounter. Don't lose your imposter syndrome. If you can keep that for the remainder of your career, I think you're going to be in a good place. I don't worry about somebody who is always, not always. I don't want you to be cripplingly questioning yourself and not being able to sleep at night because you have anxiety about whether or not you have the skillset to be into the room. But asking yourself every once in a while, you know, am I good enough to be doing this? Am I doing enough? Have I earned my seat at the table? Those are great things. That level of imposter syndrome I think keeps you hungry, it keeps you looking in the right direction, moving forward. How can I improve myself personally and professionally? And it keeps that, that wheel of progress and evolution spinning. So that's a good thing. First off, don't lose that sense of imposter syndrome. What I would say is think of a spend some time away from an environment where people aren't asking you this question. To think of a response that you is true to what you believe and it doesn't escalate or de escalate. And so to me, I'm looking at this. Not a lawyer, by the way. Right. I got my Juris Doctorate by watching suits during the pandemic. You know, even though I still to this day would like to strenuously object in a courtroom at some time, I think the only way I'm going to do that is if I go as somebody watching a court case and then I think I'll be ejected slightly afterwards. But perhaps bucket list. I'm not quite sure yet. I don't know what Leah would necessarily think about that particular goal. But again, those are intrusive thoughts that I think about that I might have to take action on at some point in my life. Find an answer that you are comfortable with and then it's in your back pocket. So for me, if I'm looking at this and I'm a lawyer or I was a lawyer and somebody said to me, man, wow, you must be really smart or that's impressive. I would just look at them and say thanks, I'm doing the best that I can and then move on, right? It thanks them for their comment. It acknowledges the comment. You are expressing to them like, you know what, I'm doing the best I can. You're not saying I'm best, you're not saying I'm the worst. You're not going into a 30 minute discussion about bringing them back to the reality of what life in the legal profession looks like. And then you can just easily move on in the conversation. Especially if you have very limited time. Like you're shaking somebody's hand and somebody introduces you like, hey, this is. I'll leave your name out of this. Obviously we make up the name Bob, which is not your name. We're like, hey, this is Bob and my friend Bob and he's a lawyer. And somebody shakes your hand and they says that, and they say that. It's like, hey, you know what, thank you, I'm doing the best that I can. Sometimes people write in and they'll say they are uncomfortable with people thanking them for their service. This is another one that would go maybe to a little bit of the pedestal and they don't know what to say. My response is simple, just say thank you, I did as much as I can, or thank you, I did the best that I could. Same thing, right? It acknowledges the statement. It doesn't escalate or de escalate, but it's a natural transition both into and out of the conversation and then you can go fill them in on the rest of your life if it's more extended conversation and they have questions like if you're seated at a table with them for a dinner or whatever it may be and they have follow up questions. Okay, cool. Then you have as much time as necessary to unpack. But don't shy away from what it is that you do. And also you don't have to wear it on a lapel pin. So everybody sees it. There is such a wide middle ground for people to just exist and be immersed in the environment that they are in without virtue signaling or career signaling or whatever it is. You can just introduce yourself as your name. And then one of my favorite things to do in settings like that is when I get introduced to people as opposed to them, especially when I'm just introduced as Andy and I get a chance to have a Conversation with somebody without it being preloaded of what I used to do 13 years ago, I started asking them questions about them and try to find out more about their world or what they're into. Like, to me, that's fantastic. So introduce yourself and ask somebody a question about who they are and what they are into. And then also be careful because I bet if you are unconscious about this, if they have a job that you might think would be inspirational or aspirational, you might say something along the lines of what people are saying to you when they meet you. So be careful, right? This blade cuts in both directions. And what you'll realize if you do mindlessly say something like that when somebody introduces you, you can immediately put yourself in the headspace that most of these people approaching you are saying. And you can then also realize, oh, I didn't really think through much of what I was saying. I didn't really know what else to say. I had heard maybe a totally incomplete data set about that occupation or seen it on tv. So I said to acknowledge what they do and my respect for it. Be like, oh, it wasn't some deep rooted thought. So I don't need to worry about somebody when they find out that I'm a lawyer and they have this first interaction that it's not something super deep seated. It actually might just be something that is easier from them. From a conversational perspective. A lot of people don't know what to say, but in a situation like this, that's what they're gonna go with. It's very easy to do if you're not consciously thinking about what's going on in your head and what's coming out of your mouth. So it just gives you insight onto both sides of that coin. So hopefully that answered your question. Develop a level of comfort with it. Even when you are the most senior person in the room, please hopefully stay with your profession and you continue. You'll have seniority and experience. Even when you are the most senior person in the room. Never stop asking yourself, am I doing enough? Am I earning my seat at the table? And if you're in a leadership role, please add to that, am I doing enough for my people? Do they have everything that they need? Am I being a good enough leader? Am I modeling leadership principles and characteristics that I want to see out of my people? These questions should never leave your mind completely, right? Don't let them become intrusive and all that you think about. But the fact that you're asking them, I think is a great thing. And then Also get more reps at this as well too. So don't avoid it. Get as many reps as you can until you have a response that you feel comfortable with. And it's a seamless, like I said, transition into a conversation onto that one bullet point and then right out of it and then start asking them questions about them. It's probably the easiest way to, I guess it would be deflect if you want to think about it like that. But it works well. And a lot of people to include myself, to include just about everybody I know, they like being asked about the things that they like to do or the things that interest them because they're interested in them. Right. You can have a fantastic conversation. That's all I have for question number one. Question number two, a little bit close. And you'll see under, you know, understand why here. But I think it's important. So here we go. Curious on your take on this. A little bit of background. I was in the Marine Corps infantry from 2011 to 2015. And although I very much wanted to, I did not deploy into a combat zone, which now I am thankful for because of the obvious downstream effects. It's a good recognition and realization. I say this to everybody who pursues a career in a profession of arms. Be careful what you ask for. I totally understand exact so deeply exactly why people who are new in those communities who are untested and unproven, whether that's from an external metric or something, they are telling themselves their desire to be tested, to be proven, to cross whatever line in the sand that they think they need to, to feel like they deserve to be there. I understand that desire. But oftentimes in that pursuit, you can find yourself in really deep water. And not everybody is ready for the tides and currents of that deep water. And there are real world, potentially lifelong consequences from this particular background in those areas. So be cautious what you wish for. Moving on. When I first got out, I embarrassingly, embarrassingly did take on the Persona of in parentheses, vet, which doesn't take any explaining. But very soon, while attending college, I would see other vets and it was clear to me that this Persona, while you can get away with it in the military because of the culture, was not okay. I saw regular college kids look at them like social sandpaper in my head. I was like, fuck me. No wonder all these vets say they can't relate to anyone. They have create, created that environment so they can fit the narrative of the war torn vet. This is very. And I'm gonna, I'M put a pin in the rest of this email here for a second because what you described is very interesting. I still don't understand the term vet bro. I get that it's a pejorative, but I see people apply it super broadly. And anytime that I see that the broader the explanation by definition, the less precise that it is. I think I understand the person that you're talking about or the caricature of the person you're talking about. I walked by somebody like this in the airport yesterday and I'm making a drastic assumption here, literally judging a book by a snapshot cover. But this was somebody who was clearly not in the military but was in head to toe fatigues. And I'm not joking when I say that it was a desert esque combat boot. A modern era camo with the boots bloused, meaning the bottom of the pants went inside of the boot with the laces. A brown T shirt like you often wear under your fatigues. They didn't have the top on because it was slung over their backpack. An older person, well like well past military age for sure, military backpack. Every piece of flare, if you will, on the backpack was military associated. I now know that this person has no known allergies. They are a negative on blood type. There were several unit patches that I didn't understand because it was from a branch of the military I wasn't in. Quite frankly, I probably wouldn't understand if it was from the Navy either because my optic on the overall Navy is a sliver in time. But I think people understand what I'm pointing out here in a sea of people that were dressed. I don't want to say normally because I'm not trying to say that this person is abnormal, but they were anomalous in the sea of people that we were walking through. How much of that do you think was accidental? Would be the question I would have to the listener, and the answer to that is none of it. This person's Persona is 100% tied into what they used to do. And again I'll I'm saying this out loud for the second time. I am making massive assumptions about this person. But I've run into this archetype before and I think a lot of people have run into this archetype. You will know who they are, where they served, what they did within two minutes of meeting them. Every interaction is going to be through the lens of prior military service. Everything their speech patterns, dress, physical behavior. This is the person that will tell you if you were to go out to breakfast with them. They're going to make a little bit of a to do about. I got to go check to make sure I know where all the exits are. I have to sit with my back up against the wall. And I'm not saying those are bad tactical things to do, but also maybe take a wrap off a little bit. Right. And a lot of that there are real issues that people that legitimately feel that way and there are 100% people who are just playing a character now. Why do they do so? Why do they play that character? Well, to go back to the previous email, question number one, there's a lot of prestige involved in being in the military in the modern era. It will elicit certain behaviors from people. They'll be very gracious to you, they'll defer to you. And this is not the case for many generations of soldiers that came before the global war on terror. Like my dad's. My dad went nowhere in his military attire. I don't know. I think my dad got rid of his military equipment and issued items within instance of being out of the military. This particular individual that I saw yesterday, I would wonder actually if they were wearing old issued stuff or this is the kind of person that only shops at the Army Navy store. My guess would be a combination of the both. Either way, that archetype, this is such a great way to describe it, can be viewed as social sandpaper. I've never heard that term, but I'm 100% stealing that from here on out because that's exactly what it is. And it can grate on people, especially those who have no understanding or context as to what, why you are acting the way that you are. Like, I get it, you came from the military, but what's going on here and it can really create space and distance between people who have any experience in the military and have served and those that haven't, especially younger people who, you know, an 18 year old now isn't going to know a whole lot about the global war on terror. And I'm not necessarily sure that's a bad thing because I would like to see us get into a place where it's in the rearview mirror and we do everything we can to maybe spend a short period of time without being involved kinetically as a nation. It's a completely different and separate conversation. But the younger generation is not going to understand why somebody is dressed like that or acting like that. But they will often have an allergic reaction to it. And that reaction, although it comes from an individual or individuals it will start applying to everybody who comes from that world. And that's where it can be so insidious and dangerous. Why the people have that level of what would be the word connection, inability or unwillingness to let go, I don't know. Everybody has their own experiences. And I will say this, I've said it many times, you are free to do it. You want to with your experiences. You have earned them. Your military experiences or civilian experience, you've earned them. Oftentimes they're very hard earned. But just because you have earned them, depending on the expression that you take with those experiences and what you do with that, it can have both positive and negative outcomes. And you're responsible for that. You have the choice to do what you want to do with those experiences, but you are accountable and responsible to the cascading downstream effects. And it is possible for somebody who is legitimately social sandpaper to turn off large groups of people in that moment and into the future when they have negative interactions. And that should be guarded against. It's. I wish people understood, and I didn't understand this or have the ability to wrap my head around this when I was younger, that individuals don't speak for entire organizations. Yes, you can have flyers, you can have one offs that are a little bit weird. That doesn't mean that the entire community is like that. But if you have a really negative experience, it's really easy to flip and just like, okay, I'm done with fill in the blank of whatever group this is. And it's unfortunate. So this person, this archetype is very real. Moving on. So this person is describing that they're in college. That quickly shifted my mindset and I developed a lot of great friendships and learned a lot from kids younger than me with barely any life experience. God, I love that sentence. There is something to be learned from everyone. I used to love doing this when we would get new people into the community and the longer you've been in, you would, you would know the tactics. You would. And they became rote over time because they're not incredibly complex. Most people would probably be shocked at how simple some of the tactics are. And the reason that they are simple is they need to work in complex environments. So simplicity is your key to survival sometimes. But going up to somebody who has no experience and saying, what do you think we should do here? And you're not looking for a PhD level dissertation. I'm just looking for somebody who hasn't lived years or decades with their nose six inches from the problem and Some of the answers that you would get, like, damn, why didn't I think of that? Well, it's because you're blinded because of your proximity to the problem. You're so close you can't see the bigger picture. Somebody with almost no exposure sometimes can give you a much more objective answer because they're looking at it from a different angle. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Yes. Do younger people have everything figured out? No, I'm closer to 50 than I am 40 and I don't have everything figured out. I would like to say that my volume of mistakes in life is slightly decreasing, but that might not be true. That might actually be a lie. I'm trying to decrease the number of galactically large mistakes that I make, but let me tell you, I am a wild work in progress. Leah and I, when we were in New York, we walked through the Met, which is something she deeply enjoys and I 100% do not. And I do the best to keep my together because I enjoy spending time with her, but I absolutely hate that environment story for another time. And there's some, you know, there's some old china in there that is glued back together that's kind of more my life than anything. There's no, like, vase or vase, depending on who you are. They're like, oh, man, look at that vase. That thing is perfect. No, I'm the one who's missing a few pieces. And you can clearly see that a nearly blind person tried to put it back together. But anyway, if you're open to it, my God, you can learn so much from people, even if they're younger than you and less experienced than you. Just give it a try. Should you always listen to their advice? No, Give it a try. Just listen. Let's start that. I digress, though. For years I did not volunteer. Hold on. Frankly, it was refreshing to learn from younger adults not influenced by the military. I digress, though. For years, I did not volunteer my past service. No, I'm not ashamed of it, but rather I slowly realize that holding onto that identity can push people away. And I discussed this in the. The first paragraph based on the loud minority events, again, previously discussed, and that the identity was in the past. I can't move forward in life and find meaning while holding onto the past. Powerful sentence. I agree with you. I want people to meet me for who I am today. And yeah, even partially opening up with I was a Marine, subjects me to scrutiny, putting me under a microscope to live up to their idea of what the title carries and that goes right back into the first email and how these two are kind of connected from the misconceptions largely going to be through definitely unofficial, but just sources that have a loose relationship with the truth. But some of this stuff is very sticky. I'm now my third year of medical school, working in a lot of clinics. I get asked a lot about my age and what I did prior to medicine, and reluctantly I tell them I was in the Marine Corps, specifically leaving out that I was infantry. Without fail, though, I always get asked, did you deploy? I usually respond with not to where you're asking about, which is always sort of met with, oh, okay. Personally, I don't really care if I did or not. At least I think I'm past that insecurity. But I wonder if the culture of some vets in parentheses, obviously not all that has developed has also influenced how civilians think about vets. Of course they have. You are. You are going to be influenced by the touch points that you have. And here's what sucks. A hundred fantastic touch points can largely be out out maneuvered and overweighed or outweighed by a negative one. And that is, I mean, that's true. So many things in life. Like what's the saying a lie will make its way around the world but before the truth gets out of bed in the morning. Or it's actually, I think it'll make its way around the world two or three times before the truth gets out of bed in the morning. Which is not exactly what you're saying here, but it's kind of the same thing. The negative, for whatever reason, is stickier with a density that is greater than the positive. And that's unfortunate because I truly believe the vast majority of people who served did so honorably, and they are amazing with their interactions with people who didn't. But with any community, there's bad apples out there, just like there's good apples and everything in between. And those negative interactions, I'm telling you, they are sticky. And that's why I think it's so important to address and also just keep yourself in check if you are one of these people who has that experience that people may look up to. So where are we at here? More specifically, do you think this identity of suffering that civilians can't possibly understand, coupled with the constant need to compare service has influenced how civilians use it as a metric for what real service in the military constitutes? Yes, absolutely. There's no way that that's not the case. I've said this before, I don't Think anybody should ever get into a game of comparative suffering or competitive suffering? Where does that lead? Nowhere good, I think, is the answer. Oh, yeah, well, I suffered. Well, then I'm gonna go do this so I can say that I suffer more. Like that sounds horrible, so maybe we shouldn't do that. And this, the identity of suffering that civilians can't possibly understand coupled with the constant need to compare service. Another one. Comparative service. Well, I was, you know, I was just in the infantry and I wasn't special operations or I was, you know, whatever. I was in the N1 or J1 or S1, which would be the admin department. And so my services. No, don't. Don't get stuck in the game of competitive service and suffering. It benefits nobody. How about we just start with the baseline template that all service is honorable and that the military, if you look at it as a large wheel, has so many different spokes that are all required to be there. Whether you're the person ordering ammunition and making sure it gets to the war fighter or the warfighter expending the ammunition on target over overseas, they both have to exist for the military wheel to spin. So let's just stop at that. And veterans doing that against other veterans publicly is so incredibly powerful. Like I said the twice around the earth before truth gets out of bed in the morning, it is so much more powerful and it is damaging and it's sticky and I wish that it didn't happen now. Advice that I would give you perhaps on, you know, it seems like you're a little bit uncomfortable when people ask you about your service. And if you want to keep adding with where is it? Right here. I get asked about my age when I probably my son would like to tell him I was in the Marine Corps specifically, even though I was in inventory. Without fail, though, I always get asked, did you deploy? I usually respond with not to where you're asking about. You can add that if you want to, or you could just say I served in a time period, you know, after the global war on terror. Not that you didn't. I mean, what I'm saying is this. That quantifier that you put out there to try to make sure that you educate the person that is asking you or your attempt to educate or inform them. That would be a better term. Not educate, but inform them. Like, oh, yeah, you might have this misconception about everybody in the service service based on that, but I wasn't a part of that. That's totally up to you. I don't think that's right or wrong. I just hope that you're doing it for the correct reasons. If you just want the conversation to end and you found that's the easiest way to exit, like I was talking about in the previous conversation, cool. And I hope that is the case. I hope that you're not. I hope that you're not doing that as something that you feel like you need to tell yourself or that you wish you had done. Even though, like I said in the first question, I understand that desire to do so. You got a lot going on, and it sounds like you don't want to be defined, like you said, by your past. And the way I describe that is I want to spend my life looking through the windshield, not the rear view mirror. It's really hard to navigate forward when your eyes are just back up in the rearview mirror looking at yourself in the back. So I get it. I hope you're doing it for the right reason. It's okay that people ask you if you deployed. They're just curious. The best thing that you can do, given how I have talked about and how you emailed in about that particular archetype, the best thing that I can recommend that you do that I think has at least a little bit of a counterbalance to the negative archetype, is just be the best expression possible. When they find out you are a Marine and then they think back about your interaction, like, wow, the guy was engaging. Great communicator. You're obviously in medical school, right? Intelligent, was engaged in the conversation, cared about my care, asked the right questions. And oh, yeah, by the way, he was a Marine, too. Awesome. The professionalism, all of those things. Lived up to everything that they might expect a Marine to be. That's a win. That's like, that's in the win column. And I'm going to be honest, personal opinion here. The guy I walked past in the airport, again, do what you want to with your experiences and live your life how you want to. I have a harder time putting that one into the win column just because I have seen that so many times go the other direction. And I feel like that person living that also knows that the interactions aren't going into the wind column, but they're stuck there and they don't know how to get out of it, which is a completely different email and conversation. But be proud when they ask you what you used to do and you tell them that you were Marine. If they say, hey, did you deploy? Like, you know what I was. I served at the tail end of the global war on terror. I wasn't able to. That's going to shut it down right there. Trust me, they're going to have just as much respect for you as anybody else. Because I bet a lot of the people asking, they don't even understand, like you said, the suffering or the potential injury that could be associated with that. They're not going to understand that. But it allows you to say, this is who I was, and then move forward and just be a doctor. Just focus on being the best representation of a veteran that you can possibly be. And if the vast majority of us focus on that, we may. I'm not going to say we will. We may be able to tip the scales, but back into the favor and overwhelm the negative interactions. And maybe even more than that. Like, if we can tip those scales, maybe some of the negative ones will fall even more onto and we'll pull a little bit more people into our crowd of trying to set that example and less of the ones that are having the negative interactions. And I think that would be a net positive for the civilians that military members serve and the military members serve and the veteran community themselves. So hopefully that helped. I feel like I rambled a little bit there, but I think I got to the end point. That's all I got for you. Today's episode is brought to you by Mando. Yeah, we're going to talk about deodorant. It's 2026. Are you using deodorant from the 1800s? Actually, full disclosure, I don't know if they had deodorant in the 1800s, but we're talking about the evolution of not stinking. So let's dive into this. Mando is whole body deodorant. It's safe to use anywhere on your body. Your pits, your balls, your thighs, folds, belly buttons, butt cracks and feet. 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It comes with a solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice like mini body wash or deodorant wipes, and free shipping as a special offer to listeners. New customers get $5 off a starter pack with the exclusive code that equates to over 40% off your starter pack using code CLEAREDHOT@shopmando.com S-H-O-P-M-A-N-O.com Please support the show and tell them that I sent you Smell fresh, stay drier and boost your confidence from head to toe with Amando. Back to the show. Boom. Question three Here we go. G' day Andy. Obviously this is from Georgia. First off, thanks for providing quality material each week. I do my best. I've been listening from the very start. It's been unreal seeing the progress you've made with the podcast. I appreciate that it's definitely gone through some iterations. I mean, if you're looking at the current studio now, yes, this is not like what it started. But we're nine years into this and there are many iterations along the way, each of them with their own challenges. But I am very proud of where I am at right now, and I'm going to say we because Michael is as much involved in this as I am and I still have good goals and plans for where I'd like it to be. My question is in three parts. You selfish bastard. Here we go. I often wondered what was your approach to recovery from training during your time in the teams, specifically overseas in combat, what did physical exercise look like for you? Were you hitting targets at night and then doing PT during the day with no chance to rest and repair your body, or was it structured with set rest days and PT sessions? Well, overseas life is very variable. Very variable. Sounds like close words, but they're spelled differently. So it would be possible to put yourself on a routine. Maybe more likely to do so if you went over there in the winter months where things were a little bit slower operational tempo wise, depending on where you were. But my theory actually was when you're not overseas that Is your opportunity to train as hard as you can to get yourself in peak condition for when you do go overseas. Because your training is at best going to be interrupted. So you need to be at the top of the mount and then claw to slow the descent as much as possible while you're there. I would work out when I could. When I felt motivated to do so, I prioritized my rest. So for most of my deployments, we were only going over for 90 days because we were on a JSOC rotation cycle. 90 days. You can get into pretty good shape before 90 days. And you're going to be okay with minimal maintenance because we are also, the job is very physical in nature. You're going to be working. So I didn't worry about it too much. Longer deployments, perhaps a little bit of a different story. But again, your job overseas is not to be modeling for a cover shoot on a calendar. It is to be as lethal as possible and physically capable as possible at your job. So anything beyond maintaining that, in my personal opinion, which counts for only that, is a little bit of a bridge too far. So I focused on that. And remember that it was about rest and recovery and prioritizing, making sure that you were ready to go out the door at night because you 100% could crush yourself on a PT session and it would diminish your ability on military operations. Not a good idea in my opinion. Okay, number two, I imagine these days it is much like. It is much is very much run like a professional sports team. But during your time in the Navy, did you see a shift in how the teams treated physical training and specifically recovery? Oh, my goodness, yes. Um, we're talking trained physical therapists on staff, nutrition, access to experts, access to world class training facilities, sauna, cold plunge, rehab, medical stretching protocols, warm up, cool down, structured workouts, like you name it, you actually nailed it. Professional sports team, which that's what special operations are to me. That's a great analogy. In the military, special operations are essentially run like a professional sporting team. There's a whole supporting cast of characters keeping people on the field. They're going to tape you up if you get dinged up. They're going to do everything they can to keep you in peak physical condition. From everything to what you go into your body to fuel with, to how you rest, recover, and rehab. So really good analogy, actually, that you nailed with the professional sports team. And huge, huge difference from when I first joined to what I left. I mean, I've heard of everything from hyperbaric chambers if you want to come, you know, sleep at altitude. What are they? Sensory deprivation pods. Like, pretty cool stuff that works for some people and not necessarily for others. But meditation, yoga, you know, jiu jitsu, all sorts of stuff. It's just getting better and better and better, as it should. Third part here, finally. Now that you are in your 40s and basically the oldest human alive, how has your approach to health, training and recovery changed over the last few years? How dare you, sir. I actually never thought I would be this age, but here we are, and I feel like I still got a lot of Runway left. I mean, obviously, we don't know. I could get Z'd out walking across the street on my way back from the studio. I'm not going to be trying to do that. And I do look both ways because, you know, safety third. But now the way I look at my life, I mean, anybody who follows the show knows that my wife is a jiu jitsu coach and she travels the world teaching jiu jitsu. I got into jiu jitsu seven and a half years ago at this point, and love the activity itself, but I also love the shared time and that we can share that together. So I want to be physically capable to do that. But also I live in Montana, which, you know, look it up on a map. The western part of the state is topography and terrain. And I like being able to go into that. I love being able to hunt. A lot of the activities that I do are physical in nature. And I am of the belief that constantly trying to learn new things is the key to keeping your body as young as possible, but also your mind as well. So the way I look at it now, it's. I'm not trying to be in the best physical shape of my life every single day, because I understand that. I mean, the math on this or the stats on this are just the stats. Late 30s, mid to late 30s is probably where adult males are going to peak in their ability. And I'm not saying there's outliers, because there certainly are. But for most people like myself, who are aggressively average when it comes to a physical perspective, you, you know, at some point in time, you need to shift from trying to have the best physical day of your life to what I look at now. And I just want to have the longest. I think Brigham, when he was on founder of Ways to Wells, described it as, there's health span and lifespan. Lifespan, meaning, you know, like when you come to the end of the track and your life ends. That's the End of your lifespan. But the health span is directly associated with your lifespan. Meaning do you want to be 80 and super capable and maybe only live to 80 or get to 90, but the last 10 years, years you're spent having somebody wipe your ass and you're eating tapioca because your lifespan continues. But your health span, there's a huge delta between the two. I think I would like those to be as close together as possible. I don't want anybody to have to care for me later in life. I like being self sufficient and I'm at a place in my life where experiences to me matter so much more. Whether it's with my, my family, my friends, the combination of the two. That's what I want to do. I want to have as many experiences as possible. And how do you do that? I mean you got to keep the meat suit that we all walk around in in as good of condition as possible. So volume has become a little bit more important to me than let's say lifting incredibly heavy. I think you should still lift heavy. But you know, what's our end state and what is our goal? To answer succinctly, my goal is, is health span. I don't know how long I'm going to live, but I'm going to maximize the time that I can and that is going to come through that health span. So that is what I am focused upon and that's the advice that I would really give to anybody. Unless you want to, you know, just really get that number, you know, as many birthday cards, if that's the most important thing to you is your collection of birthday cards versus experiences which again I'm not going to tell anybody how to party. I think there's pros and cons and I think it's great to have conversations about those pros and cons. But I mean that's not what I'm into. But what I'm into, you know, a lot of the stuff I like, people don't like. So lower trajectory towards a distant horizon. That is how I view my physical training. Lower intensity a little bit. You know, when I was in my 20s and 30s, man, some of the workouts I used to do and that was the time period where I was working for CrossFit or using CrossFit specifically and explicitly for my training. It was defined by its intensity, your ability to move weight through space and time with a stopwatch associated. And you were competitively exercising against other people, which is very motivating for men. Men are idiots and they will kill themselves for points, among other things. Women seem to have a little bit better of a handle on that, maybe realizing that exercise isn't worth your life, but whatever. Again, a conversation for another time. I don't have any desire to work out that hard anymore, and I don't think it would serve me anymore because recovery takes a little bit longer the older you get. So I keep that in mind. And everything is based around what do I want to do with my fitness, where do I want to go? As an example, something that is new on our schedule. Leah has talked about wanting to go to Japan to snowboard since I've known her. We're going into 20, 27. It's going to be largely split boarding. So that is different. And for those of you who are unfamiliar with winter sports, you know, skiing, you got two little, you know, platforms that you're sliding down on. Snowboarding is a plank, obviously, like a skateboard, but you can put skins underneath skis, and you can vertically ascend. You need this different set of bindings as well, too, that allow your heel to articulate, but you can gain altitude while on your skis, staying on top of the snow. Split, you know, split boarding is essentially turning your snowboard into two shorter skis, and then you can put them back together when you get to the top. So what are we talking about if we're going to be gaining altitude in Japan? Lower body, gaining altitude, working a little bit harder, and you got to train for that stuff. So her and I are already talking about, like, what? What do we want to do? How do we train for that? When I booked the trip, she's like, I'm going to start training now. I'm like, I think it's like nine months away. I don't know if today is the most important day that you need to do that. I appreciate the headspace, but, I mean, hey, let's go ahead and set some wickets out there. And maybe, like, again, low trajectory. We don't want to start off nearly vertical. 270 days out, 290 days out. Let's lower that down. Let's lower it down. So we are peaking the day we get on the airplane, not the day after or the month after we decide we're going to go on the trip. So that's what it's all based on, man. It's all based on the experiences. And how do I get myself into a place where I'm capable of doing the things that I want to do for as long as humanly possible. It's a little bit Lower intensity. Actually probably a lot lower intensity. I've gone away from almost anything barbell related and it's kettlebells and uneven objects at this point because that's what the real world seems to have challenged me with. I've never come across in real life something that is linear and equally loaded on both sides that I've had to pick up a lot of odd object stuff, rotational stuff, upper body, lower body separation. I still love the Olympic lifts, but you can do all of those things with the kettlebell as well too. And those are movements that for me, and I'm not an expert in this nor an exercise physiologist, are more reflective of the movements that I am challenged with in real life. So those are the ones that I focus on. And that's all I got for that question. Let me go check the time. I think that's going to be it for this week. Okay, I got time for one more. We're shifting over to some hormonal stuff. Going back to having my sister on Andy, listen to the podcast with your sister today. Very informative and very good. Trying to get my wife to listen to it. It should definitely have someone else she I should definitely have someone else suggested to her. Yes, the move there is give it to one of her friends and let her friends suggest it to her. Anyway, to my point, I'm 43 year old firefighter, paramedic and TRT hormone therapy has quickly erupted in the fire service. I've heard that pretty much resoundingly. Excuse me. And in the first responder world as well. I get it. Very difficult job shift schedule recovery people, you know they age is a real medical symptom I get is not a cure all. Nothing gets rid of hard work. But I'll get to that in a minute. I'm curious as to your personal usage of TRT and hormones if that's not too personal of a question. It's totally not. I've tried to transparent completely transparent about my journey with this. What do you try to keep your levels of testosterone at to keep you feeling optimal? Any concerns of having to stay on for the rest of your life? Thank you. I know it's easier to ask a question via keyboard than in real life, so if I overstepped I do apologize. Also please forgive any typos as I do wear a helmet to work. It's not too personal. Again, I don't have the energy to be somebody other than myself, so I will answer as honestly as humanly possible. Obviously there's sections of my life that I'm not going to talk about for particular reasons. The best example I can give you is anybody who's a fan of the show or has followed the show for a while knows that I went through a divorce over five years ago. I don't talk about it other than the fact that I went through it. There are always going to be things for the protection of others, specifically my kids, or the fact that the other party in that doesn't have a platform that is equal to my own or the ability to have their own story out there. So it is not right for me to do so. My personal usage on trt, though, is a different story. Let's go backwards on this. Any concerns on having to stay on it for the rest of your life? No, because I am going to do that under the care of a professional who specializes in this. And again, to go right back to the previous question, healthspan versus lifespan. This is an actionable step that I can take, managed appropriately, being aware of any potential risks that can extend my health span. And that was the decision that I made with myself. I think it was 46 when I started on TRT. I'm 48 now. What do you try to keep your levels of Detox. Oh, my God. I just said what my father says. Testosterone. I just said testosterone. And I'm leaving it in there. I don't even care. I'll blame that on him somehow. Right? Extremely limited ownership. The newest book I'm getting ready to write. So, yeah, I try to keep my test my. I try to keep my testosterone. I know I said it incorrectly. Now I'm just going to fucking go with it because I'm not going to be able to say it correctly. There are ranges for all of these metrics and I am not an expert in this. So I would defer to my sister or people like Brigham who manage this. It is more about treating to symptom than it is a number on a piece of paper. Here's what I don't have testosterone samples from when I was younger. There are people who are naturally higher and lower and people in between. But this range encompasses all of those people, which is like saying, you know, you're gonna wear a size 10 shoe, which is great if you're a nine and a half and maybe okay if you're a ten and a half, but anything outside of that, that sucks Dong. And that's what these ranges are. So it's so broad, you could be at, let's say 400. And this is probably the testosterone that you're gonna be measuring on a blood draw and you might feel fine. That could be okay for you, or you could be at 800 and feel like you're dying and not recovering. So. And again, talking with my sister and people like Brigham, it's more about treating to this symptom than it is aligning with this range of numbers that is supposed to encapsulate every human being on earth without any level of precision or individual accuracy. A number that I have heard thrown out there is around somewhere between 800 to 1000 and that is where I try to keep my blood draw. Testosterone, I had switched over. I was using cream for a little bit, then I went back to injectable, which for me just is more convenient. And like a 31 gauge insulin needle, it is simple. I do a Monday, Wednesday, Friday shot. It's measured in units and I don't, I'm not good on the math because I could say how many units it was and it's 25 units three times a week. But that's not the correct measurement because that's based off of the dilution in the actual vial of testosterone itself. So I, I'm going to completely stay away from that. Just go to your doctor and get your dosage on that one. But that's the, the units that I use. And there was a time where when I made that switch over, I could, it got too high and you would think you're like, oh, you must feel amazing. No, I didn't feel great at all. I actually, it didn't feel good. It like I was starting to get some reactions on my skin and it was fortunately, right when I was getting ready to get a blood draw, the results came back. I think my Testosterone was at 1400, which for me I could, Even without having that blood draw, I could tell you that it was too much for me because I didn't, I didn't want it to feel that way. I was struggling during workouts probably because I had blood that was about as thick as, you know, 10W30 oil. And so I backed that off again. Talking with my sister back that off. It's. I haven't had my blood tested again. I'm due to do so in a couple weeks and I bet you it's going to be much more along those lines of like the 800 range. That's what I am slowly over two years working my way towards very slow titration because I don't want to go crazy high and I don't want to like spike and get to that place because you do need to back it down. I mean like those ultra physiological doses. Again, live your life however you want to. Consequences to that. That's not what I'm interested in. I'm in low trajectory, distant horizon. So I want to slowly. And the closer I get, the smaller the changes that I want to make. Because I really want to dial in what works for me and I'm basing it off of how I feel. I feel much better at a lower dosage and you know, I can report back again when I get the blood draw. Whenever it's on, probably some two to four weeks from now is I guess when I'll have that done. So I would say listen to your body. You know, I was at the talk my sister gave at the coffee shop and she was talking about blood draws and she was like, listen, you can get your blood draw and she was talking to the women and maybe this is a women specific thing, I don't know. She's like, you can get your blood drawn four times today and it would give you four different measures. Or if for women in their, in their cycle, you can get measured four different times throughout the month and you're going to be all over the place depending on what's going on. So instead of using that as the gold standard, how do you feel? Are you feeling better or worse? Let's start with that and get you moving in the right direction and then we can maybe have a convergence of those two things. Treating to symptoms and then also making sure that the dosage is appropriate. Because if you were naturally on the high end and then you're super low when you get measured, yeah, you're probably not going to be feeling great. But if you were naturally on the lower end and so they're like, we got to get you to 1400 because the last client they saw was natural on the high end and needs to be up there. Tell you right now, you're going to think that that's the answer, but it doesn't, it doesn't feel great. It just didn't feel great. That's the best way I can describe it. So find somebody who cares about you as an individual. Find somebody who is responsive that you can ask questions to. And it's not a service where once you sign up they just really care about the fact that your credit card goes through every month and then everything else is kind of forgotten. So that's the kind of care that I'm looking for. And yeah, it's a lifelong journey for sure, but that that's cool to me too though, because that means I get to be a scientist on myself for the rest of my life. And you know, there's way, like I get huge blood panels every time I go get my blood drawn. I almost want to look down, be like, would you mind leaving me a little bit for the drive home? You know what I mean? Like, I'm a few quarts low at this point. And why do I do that, though? I like the tests. To me it's interesting. Some of them are controllable through sleep and stress diet hormones. It's fascinating to me. And I have the rest of my life to try to figure myself out even more. So, no, I'm not worried about the rest of my life because to me, I get to tinker with it and hopefully get myself to a point place or continue working to a place where I can really just maximize that health span because Japan's not going to snowboard itself, if you know what I mean. And that, ladies and gents, is all I have for this week. Thank you again for the support with the book. I am not so sure I'm deserving of the level of support that I have received. And all I can say is this. I will do the absolute best I can to try to be the most positive impact on the people in the world around me. Not perfect, I'm gonna stumble and fall along the way, but that for that level of support, I mean, like, I knew I wanted to do that before, but that I feel obligated just based off of people's reactions, that that's what I need to do, which is good. It's a great additional purpose to have in your life. Because there have been times in my life where I didn't have that and I didn't know what to do. But now I'm pretty clear on my goal. So I think that's all I got. Is that all I got? That's all I got. See you guys Monday with a guest episode. Until then, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com.