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Rachel Zoe
This is what you do when you.
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- [02:10]
Rachel Zoe
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zo, and you're listening to Climbing in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and of course, fun. Well, it is finally the last week of January, which has felt maybe a thousand days long and counting. I recently posted an Ask Me Anything on my Instagram because I hadn't done one in a while and I wanted to focus on the topic of healing. And what's interesting is I actually was not pertaining to my personal life. I was actually really wanting to address the pain that everybody was feeling here in Los Angeles and the fires, you know, and there's so much going on in the world that I posted the question as a way to connect with my followers on, you know, just how everyone's feeling and kind of share any advice that felt appropriate. Well, to say that I was completely blown away is an absolute understatement. I got a lot, a lot of questions, an overwhelming amount of questions about my personal life and how it's changed in the last six months. I don't think I was planning on talking about my personal life at all. But I think in the moment it felt right. And to be honest, it was too much to actually type. And I just felt like talking to you guys directly felt, or as much as you can virtually talk directly really felt more appropriate in that moment. And the response was overwhelming. And everybody was dming and texting and saying, please put it in my feed, please do it on your podcast. So I wanted to share here on Climbing in Heels. I wanted to share the questions and some of the answers on my POD to update you on my life and really with the intention to help anyone out there who is healing from tragedy, grieving a broken heart, a natural disaster, or just trying to find their new normal like me, and just trying to figure out who they are in a new iteration of their own lives. So I hope any of this helps you. I love how many people have responded so far and how many people are taking, I guess, my advice or wanting to have more open conversation about it. So let's just get right into it. Okay? What has helped you the most navigate your new journey post breakup? You know, it's very interesting. I don't really consider what's happened in my life a breakup. I don't know. For some reason a breakup to me in my life feels very like middle school, like I had a boyfriend and we broke up or dealing with, you know, my young teenager's personal life, like, oh, they broke up or they're not dating anymore, they're not talking anymore. And I think when you are separating after a 33 year relationship, and a public one at that, I don't even know that I think about it as breaking up, to be very honest. I think of it as an entire kind of life altering shift. And I think in some ways it's a bit of a grieving process. And I want to talk about that because I think grieving is a word that is underused. And I think that it really applies to so much that's happening in the world and has happened. I think we grieve when natural disasters happen. I think we grieve when we lose friendships. I think we grieve, of course, when we when someone passes away. But I think we also grieve sometimes. A person that once was, or a relationship, a marriage that once was. I have a friend that lost a husband this past summer. And it's interesting because I feel like, in a weird way, we've kind of gone through the grieving process in many ways together. And, you know, I think when you live a certain way for a really long time and then you live a completely different way without someone in your life, you just have to figure out what that life is. And that's a process, you know? And so I think what's helped me the most is sort of to not look back, but just look forward and look at every day as one I'm grateful for. I think having two magical children by my side, on each side at all times really helps. I think having my family, which, you know, I've talked about before, really feels in many ways like I've won the lottery, because I have the most incredible family. My sister is like my. My life, you know, I mean, I think we must talk six times a day. Even when we're not talking, we just sit on the phone and my team and my team and my friends. And so I think that has really helped me because I don't sit home stuck in my thoughts. And I think that that's a really big. I think that's a really big challenge for people. Going through something is not wanting to go out, not wanting to be with people, not wanting to talk about it. And I think when you actually do go out and you get out of your head, that is the most helpful thing to do. And also, I have an incredible life, and I think that it's important to embrace that to its fullest. So, I mean, I think all these things have helped me. Okay, what are some signs you're ready for divorce? I've been married for 25 years. You know, I think there are signs. I mean, there definitely are signs. There are signs to divorce. But I think people would argue, and I think experts might argue, that what might be a sign for one person is something that's comfortable for another person. So I think that's where it gets a little challenging. I think that when you can't figure out, and I'm not necessarily saying that all of these pertain to me at all. I'm just saying in general, because I feel like I've been through divorce probably 20 times in my life before I even dealt with separating with my husband. And I think that when you've had a really happy relationship, that for an extended period of Time is very unhappy for various reasons. And you start to realize that you've either, like, grown apart, you don't agree on pretty much anything, that the things that tied you together are not tying you together anymore. When you, you know, as I said on my Instagram, I mean, I think when you run out of reasons to stay together and you go to sleep at night not feeling safe, and when I say safe, I want to be very clear. I don't. Safe can mean scared, Literally physically scared. It can also mean that someone who made you calm and happy no longer makes you calm and happy. And I think that in a marriage, look, marriages are gonna go up and down and around 600 times. I think I was very fortunate in that, you know, I'm not suffering from. I married the wrong person at the age of whatever I was, child. I think that I had many, many years that were amazing. And I think that sometimes people, I think you start to look at things differently. And I think that sometimes you grow together and sometimes you grow apart and sometimes. I've always kind of believed that people don't change. Obviously, behaviors can change, but at the core, I always feel like those don't change. But honestly, in the last five years, I've seen many people change. And I think that that is something, in my opinion, that can really impact a marriage. And I think that when you start to go to sleep at night with that different feeling and you address those things, and sometimes you don't address those things, Sometimes you do therapy, and sometimes you don't. And I think there's a lot of things in a marriage that are fixable. And then sometimes I think that people don't want to do the work. And if you don't want to face things that become challenging in a marriage, I think then it's time to go on either side. You know, I think if you look at yourself every day and you go, I love who I am and I don't wanna change, and your spouse wants you to change for various reasons. I think that's a sign for divorce, you know, And I think that works on either side of a marriage. I think that ultimately, if the reasons you don't wanna be together override the, the reasons you do want to be together. You know, I also have to say that I, I, I do believe in divorce. I'm just gonna say that because I do think that we grew up, some of us, depending on your age, grew up in a time where divorce was not accepted in society and it was, like, really taboo, and it was sort of, like, I. I mean, I can't tell you how many sets of grandparents I know that stayed together. Even parents, our parents. My parents are happily married. But I think there are countless people that stay together just because they're supposed to stay together, and they live miserably until they're gone. And I don't think that that needs to happen anymore. I don't. I don't think that means peace out and leave your marriage without trying. But. But I think if you've given it everything you've got and you cannot see it working or you're really just not happy, it's okay to go. I really. I really do. But I think you also know you're ready at that point. You just are. Like, know that I think when you make the decision that you know you will confidently be happier without this person than with this person, it's probably time to go. There are a lot of people in my life going through a lot of things right now. There are. There is the biggest surge of separation and divorce that I've ever seen. And I don't know if it's because I'm at that age, and this is kind of when it mostly occurs, but I also think that couples have been challenged with things that they've never been challenged with. Between Covid having more children out of COVID getting divorced in Covid coming out of it, I definitely would say not to be afraid to walk away from something that really doesn't feel right to you anymore. Someone asked me something a long time ago. It wasn't even that long ago, actually. They said, rachel, do you need permission to leave this relationship? And in a weird way, I think I did. I think I needed permission for myself. And so I think. I think that you have to look at yourself without judgment, without feelings of failure, without all the things that society puts on, on relationships and marriages and people. And I think you need to. I think you need to do the work. I would recommend doing the work on both sides if it's something that you want mutually to save. But at some point, I think it's okay to say, okay, this has been great, and now it's not. We've done everything we can, and now it's time to move forward. I'm saying in general, and I am no therapist, I am no professional. I can only speak from personal experience and experience with people very close to me in my life. But be honest with yourself. Do what's best for yourself and for your family. The other thing I would say, and again, I'm not speaking only about myself or specifically about myself and my situation, but I think that myth of you have to stay together for the children, I think that has to go away because children very often know way more than you think they feel way more than you think. And it's more important for children to have two parents that love them separately or together or both than it is for parents to stay together in an unhappy relationship where they are not loving to each other. Because kids feel that no matter the age, they feel it. Okay. Do I like being single? You know, it's a really bizarre question and one that I'm pretty sure I never thought I'd be answering. I have not been single since I was 18, and in fact, I don't think I was single at 18. So I actually don't even know the last time I was single and I don't know the last time I went on like a date, so. So the answer is like, so far, yes. It kind of feels like being a teenager, honestly. Like, there is this kind of bizarre freedom that I have. And when I say freedom, it's sort of like this feeling of just being able to be myself and not answer to anyone other than my children who, you know, I have to answer to. But it is absolutely surreal. I'm not going to lie. It is absolutely surreal to be flirted with and know that it's okay if I wanted to, like, react to that. I'm a fiercely loyal person. So I think it's something that, like, you know, having been with someone for more than half of my life, I just don't think that that lever has been pulled for a really long time. Like, of course you have, like, crushes on people you can never be with, like a Brad Pitt type person, right? But I think there's, you know, I think in real life, going out there and being on trips and being in different cities and going about my life and people wanting to set me up and, you know, guys talking to me, it's like a very bizarre thing that I haven't felt since I was a teen. So, I mean, it's pretty amazing, honestly. I'm not gonna lie. It's like a very life altering, surreal feeling. That is something I'm really getting used to. Very liberating. Honestly. It's wild. So, yeah, okay. Best way to move on from a divorce. Best way to move on from a divorce. Honestly, you just move on. Like, you know, I. I think I answered this very similarly on my Instagram is that, you know, you can only move on by moving On. I know that sounds so ridiculous, but the truth is I don't overthink that. And I do overthink most things in my life. But what I don't overthink is how I move through things on a daily basis. And I think it's because I have always had to handle so much. I've never had to handle one thing ever. I mean, in as long as I can remember. I mean, I think since I graduated college, I have been handling multiple things at a time in my life. And whether that's work, work and kids, my marriage, my family, my friends, issues, my. My life, like, just. It's a lot. My life is a lot. And I think everybody's life is a lot. So I don't complain about that. But I would say that moving on, to me is having to really move through every step of it. So if I'm having a hard day, then I have the hard day. I would say that I really have very few. I really do, because I really feel very hard in those hard days. And I lean on my very safe people in those moments. Admittedly, a huge crier. You know, I think in this, I cried a lot, and then I did it, you know, and then there are days that I do and I. And I don't love those days. But, you know, it's for different reasons. Usually it's because I'm overwhelmed by everything, not because I'm sad about one thing. It's usually because I'm exhausted and, you know, and I'm dealing with my personal life and my professional life, and I have to show up for my kids and always be, like, positive and strong, you know, because I think the minute, at least for me when I was younger, it was always, like, if I saw my parents scared or crying, that is the thing that floored me the most. So I'm very aware of that. And I think it's very important, especially as women, to allow ourselves to feel. And I think in a process of divorce, there are so many different emotions that you go through. And like I said, you grieve. I mean, you really grieve. And even if it's something you decided to do or you feel good about doing, it doesn't mean there's not grieving in that process. Right. And I think that there's moments, there's things that, like, I won't do. I won't look at old videos, I won't look at old pictures. I won't look at all these things the media puts together about, like, my history of my relationship. I don't, I don't feel the need to do that right now. And I think that you have to allow yourself to not allow yourself to do things and not feel guilty about it. But I've also always felt better navigating my own path and doing what feels right to me in the moment and not following a rule book of like, how to grieve. And I'm not saying that's not helpful for people. I'm just saying for me it's not.
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- [22:26]
Rachel Zoe
Earrings, a Prada crossbody bag to be.
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- [22:46]
Rachel Zoe
It's all real.
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- [23:03]
Rachel Zoe
Okay, so I also believe, I just want to say the other thing about that is that I think moving through a divorce, like moving through anything, I think it's important to move through every phase of it. And I think you gotta feel all the feels. Truthfully. Okay, how do I get over someone I've been with for 27 years? Honestly, it's a, it's a really. It's a simple question and a loaded one because I'm pretty sure in many ways you don't ever get over somebody completely. I think, I think your best friend would say the only way you're going to get over someone is with someone else. But I actually think that's the cop out. I do think that's the quick fix because obviously it's like a heart transfer, right? Like, I've loved this person for 27 years and now I've quickly shifted to somebody else and that person is filling my heart right now. But like, I don't even know if I love them or like, but your heart has shifted. If your heart is holding on to someone that you've been with for 27 years, and you can't pull it away enough to feel for anything else or anyone else. You're never gonna get over that person because all you're gonna do is think about all the things you're missing in that person and all the things that you miss about that person. And to be honest, that is destroying you on every level. I definitely. I don't know. I mean, my team would probably say it's a gift. My friends would probably say it's a gift. I don't know how I think of it, but I do compartmentalize and I do block. I talked about this as well. But I think when you have a lot of different channels of life in your life on a daily basis, like a work bucket, a kid bucket, a friend's bucket, a coworker bucket, a travel bucket, your family bucket, like all these things, you have to compartmentalize it, because if you don't, you will go down every time one of those channels is broken or even just injured. You know? And I think it's a really important life skill to have. And I think your personal life and your professional life, if. If your personal life goes down when your professional life does, and your professional life goes down when your personal life does, you can't really exist in a healthy way all the time. And so I really think that you have to accept that you may not truly get 100% over somebody in the way that you want to. I don't know that I can realistically say to you, you're never going to care about this person again. You're never going to think about this person again. But I can tell you that if you work on yourself and you become a happy, content, confident person in yourself, you will most likely attract a person who is going to love you in a way that makes you feel whole again. Because I think when you get out of something for 27 years, there's a huge part of you. There's like a huge vacancy, you know? And one would argue that there are many partners in a relationship that within seconds and sometimes even before, jump right into another relationship. Sometimes that's a narcissist. Sometimes that's a serial, you know, relationship kind of person. Sometimes it's the simple fact that either person cannot be alone with themselves, in their thoughts, in their physical selves. They cannot bear the thought or act of being alone ever. And I think, for me, I really love my alone time. I crave it. It doesn't mean I don't want a partner. It doesn't mean I Don't love love. It just means there is a level of noise in my life that exists on a daily basis that my alone, quiet, personal time is sacred and needed for me. And I would rather have that than be with someone that isn't making me whole or isn't making me happy. And so I think a lot of people. To go back to the earlier question, I think a lot of people need to be with someone because they're either not happy with themselves or. Or they can't figure out how to be independent and not codependent. And I think you have to really look at why you're with someone, why you stay with someone, or why you need to be with someone, because I do think our culture does dictate that. And I can't tell you that when I announced that I was getting separated, thousands of people from around the world in every part of my life were like, are you okay? You're going to be okay. You're going to meet someone. Don't worry. And I was like. And then what's so funny is, like, my really badass friends in my life that are, like, very fiercely independent, but also have, like, either been divorced and remarried or found love again or happiness or whatever it is, were like, congratulations, welcome to your new life. And I think there's a way that this culture needs to stop dictating and stop putting pressure on women, even men, to be like, oh, I have someone to say, oh, oh, don't worry, you're going to find a partner. Oh, my God, someone's going to love you again. That narrative has to change. It has to change. It just does. And I. I think you have to accept that you may not 100% be over somebody forever, because I think someone that you love for 27 years is always going to hold a piece of your heart. And if you ended in an amicable way, you will likely hold that person in a place in your heart. And that's okay, but hopefully you can open up enough room to. To make space for someone else if you choose to. Okay, where does my confidence come from? My confidence. It is very funny. I don't think of myself as a confident person, and I. I think the people closest to me in my life would probably say that I'm not an overly confident person. I think I have insecurities. Like all of us, I am probably more confident about certain things. And I will say I think that I am very clear on what I feel most confident about. I know that I can read a room. I know that I can Read people. I know that. I know that I have good instincts and things like that, but I think a lot of that is, is really trial and error. I've lived a lot and not to do anything with age, but I have had a very full life and a very, very dramatic life in many ways. You know, it's weird because it's my normal. So I don't think I really realize that on a regular basis. I go at things full on and a thousand percent. And it's the way that I work best, it's the way that I feel best. And I think that for me, confidence comes from wanting to do things myself in a way, because I know how I want them done. So I don't think I look at it as confidence, but I look at it as a comfort level in how I like things and how I like to again, like, move through my life and attack things in my life and approach things in my life. But yeah, again, I think I would leave that with. Confidence comes with experience. And I think especially when it comes to your job, the more you do something, I promise you, the more confident you are. I think it's the same thing with being a mother. I know that I'm a great mother because I've now been a mother for more than 14, almost 14 years. But if you asked me in the first few years of my life, I'd be like, am I doing this right? I don't know. But I followed my gut and I just said I'm never leaving my kids. And this is what makes me feel like I'm being a good mother. So you have to do what makes you feel best about what you're doing. Okay. Favorite tools to deal with anxiety. There are tools to deal with anxiety. I mean, I have done something with friends and honestly with my youngest son and really in my own mind, you have to think about something as what's causing the anxiety. You have to break it down, right? Because for me, the immediate reaction I saw this thing about, you know, being a Virgo, which is like something like being a Virgo means panicking, but then doing it yourself. But you have to panic first and go into a complete spiral and then you're totally fine. And I think that there's this like five alarm fire reaction that I have to things a lot of the time. But I will say that becoming a mother made me weirdly less anxious about many things because I realized how either unimportant they were, how unrealistic they were, but I think a really good exercise to do is Something you would do with a young child. Is this a rational fear or an irrational fear? So, like, if you're walking down the street and you have a fear of this tree falling on you, is that rational? Probably not, right? I think having a fear of driving a car on a crazy ledge with no railing, that's pretty rational fear to be frightened of, you know? And I think there is a world of difference between irrational and rational. And that has helped me with anxiety. Truly trying to break it down in my head. Truthfully, breathing. Breathing techniques actually really do work in the moment. And sometimes shifting the narrative in your head about what is actually happening. So it's sort of projecting kind of what could happen. And then you're like, why are you wasting this brain space, time and energy on something that hasn't happened? You know, because I realize how much anxiety is caused by what could happen, but actually hasn't happened. So I've really been working on a lot of that, and it's really been helpful. And I also find that when you have children, because you have to be strong for them, you find you have less time to be anxious about things not worth being anxious about. And I do find a big trigger for anxiety is having too much time to get into your head about anything. Okay, are you going to date soon, or do you want to enjoy being on your own for now? You know what I Literally the greatest lesson I've learned in my career and in my life in general, and I'll say it to anyone who will listen. Never say never, Never say never. And never, never turn down an opportunity that hasn't been offered. So I'm going to now, I always applied that to work, and now I'm going to apply that to my single life. So I'm never going to turn down something that hasn't presented itself. I am excited to date. I'm going to date someone that excites me. I'm going to date someone that I'm very clear about what I want and what I don't want. But I also need to not put roadblocks up on that. I'm going to take my own advice on that. But I am really enjoying my piece, and I am really enjoying being on my own and just being with my kids and being with my friends and just meeting great people. And right now it's just been really nice and really peaceful and no drama. And that's been really, really nice. And I think what happens, you know, going forward, I mean, bring it on. I'm open to it. No rules, no Roadblocks. That's what I keep saying to myself. No rules, no roadblocks. Okay. How are the boys doing? The boys are, honestly, extraordinary. They are my best friends. They are my little princes. They are my little guards. They are my two favorite little humans in the world. And they are thankfully, gratefully doing incredibly. They are thriving in school, thriving with their friends, and just overall, incredibly happy and peaceful. And that's all I care about. So the rest is icing. Okay. Did I do try January? That's funny. No. No. Did I stutter? No. But truth be told, I've never actually believed in dry January. I've never believed in. What's the other one? Sober November. I also don't believe in New Year's resolutions. I'm not that person. I don't believe in those types of things. It's the same reason I don't set, like, these big markers and goals for myself. It doesn't work for me. To me, that sets me up for failure, because it's this thing I'm trying to do, and if I don't get to where I wanted to be or I trip up along the way, then I. Then I start to get really, really hard on myself. But to be honest, I've never really felt that I needed to do a dry month because I have, at least for now, a very healthy relationship with alcohol. And I have never leaned on it to solve problems, and I've never done it in excess because I didn't want to lose the privilege of having it. A friend of mine, during the wildfires recently, we, a group of us, really trauma bonded, and we talked about not losing the privilege with certain things. And alcohol, I think, is one of them, because I really do enjoy. I enjoy having a glass of wine when I want it. And I've always looked at it as I don't want to not be able to have that glass of wine because I enjoy it. And I think there's so many things in life every day that passes. Everything that we love or enjoy doing is toxic. So I know alcohol's not good for us, but I also feel that it's okay to have a glass of wine once in a while. So I'm just gonna allow myself right now to continue doing that. But I do have a very strong rule that I highly recommend, which is not drinking at home, because there are many nights that I don't go out, and I definitely would never drink at home on those nights, because I think once you start doing that, you're drinking seven nights a week. And that personally has saved me, like in Covid and everything else. It just. That is like a no fly zone for me because once you break that, all of a sudden you're drinking every night. Okay, so I think that's it for now. Keep the questions coming and I will always answer them. Or I should say, I should always try to answer them. I will answer as many as I can, but I hope this was helpful to you. I definitely want to do more of these. I think I just like to be real with all of you. I like to keep this community honest. I don't believe in being that Instagram happy. And I think a lot of people are like, are you really happy? Are you just Instagram happy? I'm like, no, I'm actually really happy. Like, of course there's days that fully suck. But you know, it's okay. We all have days that suck. That's human. So be on the lookout for when I drop questions on my ig. I hope this podcast helps anyone who's searching for healing in their life, no matter what it is, or anyone who is just curious about how my personal healing journey is going. I love all of you. You mean a lot to me. And you know, my mission with Climbing in Heels truly is to help as many people as possible get through whatever it is in their life, whether it's their professional journey and now personal journey. And sometimes it's the same thing, sometimes it's both colliding. But whatever it is, I think we all have to be open and talk about it because we're all just going through it. So let's just go through it together. Thank you so much for listening to Climbing in Heels. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the Iheart app, or wherever you get your podcasts. So don't miss a single episode this season. Be sure to follow me on Instagram at Rachelzo and the show on Climbing in Heels pod for the latest episodes and updates. I will talk to you soon.
- [41:02]
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