Highbrow Hippie: Kadi Lee and Myka Harris

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Highbrow Hippie: Katie Lee and Micah Harris" on Climbing in Heels with Rachel Zoe

Release Date: March 14, 2025

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of Climbing in Heels with Rachel Zoe, Rachel welcomes Katie Lee and Micah Harris, the dynamic duo behind the renowned hair care and wellness brand, Highbrow Hippie. Known for their work with Hollywood's elite and their innovative approach to hair health, Katie and Micah share their inspiring journey from college friends to successful entrepreneurs.

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How Katie and Micah Met

Rachel delves into the origins of Katie and Micah's partnership, highlighting their long-standing friendship and shared passion for fashion and beauty.

• Rachel Zoe [05:16]: "How did you even find each other? How does this even happen?"

• Katie Lee [04:12]: "We met almost 30 years ago in college."

Katie and Micah first crossed paths in Atlanta while working at BCBG, both attending Spelman College. Despite pursuing different paths—with Micah heading to Parsons in Paris for her graduate degree—their bond strengthened over the years, leading them to reunite in New York City where their professional journeys continued to intertwine.

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The Evolution of Highbrow Hippie

Rachel explores the transformation of Highbrow Hippie from a simple blog to a full-fledged salon and product line.

• Rachel Zoe [07:00]: "It has a bit more of just freedom to it."

Katie recounts how their blog, initiated during the pandemic, served as a foundation for understanding their community’s needs. This insight was pivotal in developing products that genuinely addressed hair health and loss.

• Katie Lee [08:22]: "We wrote every single thing down before we even launched the blog. And a lot of those things today are true."

Their strategic planning and dedication allowed them to foresee and adapt to the evolving market, ensuring that Highbrow Hippie not only survived but thrived through challenging times.

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Building a Sustainable and Authentic Brand

Rachel emphasizes the importance of authenticity and excellence in building a sustainable business. She probes into how Katie and Micah maintain their brand’s integrity while expanding.

• Rachel Zoe [10:48]: "How do you balance touching people with keeping other parts of the business strong?"

Katie explains that their commitment to excellence has been the cornerstone of their success.

• Katie Lee [13:26]: "As a black woman in the beauty industry, I did not have a choice but to be excellent."

Micah adds that authenticity drives their brand decisions, ensuring that everything they create aligns with their core values and community needs.

• Micah Harris [17:30]: "We are authentically what we would want for ourselves."

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Navigating Challenges and Resilience

The conversation turns to the hurdles they faced, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic, and how they overcame setbacks.

• Katie Lee [40:09]: "We wasted about seven years trying to get the first iteration of Highbrow Hippie off the ground and had to start over from scratch."

Rachel empathizes, recognizing the emotional toll such challenges take on entrepreneurs.

• Rachel Zoe [41:37]: "In those moments, you just have to trust the universe has some plan that you just may not know about yet."

Katie and Micah share how regaining control of their company allowed them to rebuild with a more sustainable model, reducing overhead and maintaining their mission.

• Katie Lee [42:23]: "We kept our same mission and did it in a different way. It ended up being better."

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Product Development and Community Engagement

Rachel highlights their unique approach to product development, driven by direct feedback from their community.

• Katie Lee [19:22]: "We launched with two products, with two more coming out in a few months."

Katie details how they conducted extensive surveys during the pandemic to understand their clients' needs, ensuring their product line was both relevant and effective.

• Katie Lee [20:28]: "By the end of next year, we'll have about eight products in the line."

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Addressing Hair Health and Loss

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the prevalence of hair loss among women and how Highbrow Hippie addresses this sensitive issue.

• Micah Harris [37:32]: "Over 75% of women will experience hair loss in their lifetime."

Katie emphasizes their philosophy of prioritizing hair health over trendy styles, ensuring longevity and trust with their clients.

• Katie Lee [36:14]: "I've never been the colorist that wanted to fry anybody's hair. We focus on making the best version of what your hair really wants to do."

Micah connects hair health to overall well-being, pointing out the impact of stress and lifestyle on hair loss.

• Micah Harris [37:32]: "Stress creates inflammation, affects the adrenals, and shows up in our hair and skin."

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The Power of Supportive Networks

Rachel praises the importance of supportive relationships in their journey, highlighting key figures who have championed their growth.

• Katie Lee [44:42]: "Cleo Wade brought multiple investors to the table that accounted for a huge part of our raise."

Rachel underscores that their success is fueled by genuine belief and connections within their community.

• Rachel Zoe [44:57]: "Women invest if they're believers; they invest if they connect with it."

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Maintaining Personal and Professional Balance

Towards the end, Rachel explores how Katie and Micah manage their personal dynamics while running a business together.

• Katie Lee [28:02]: "We retreat to our corners and just keep it moving because the world is against black women enough."

They emphasize the importance of trust, recognizing each other’s strengths, and maintaining a shared vision despite personal differences.

• Micah Harris [22:43]: "It's okay, because it's different."

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Conclusion

Rachel wraps up the episode by expressing admiration for Katie and Micah's resilience, authenticity, and the lasting impact of Highbrow Hippie. She highlights how their journey exemplifies the essence of Climbing in Heels—celebrating the triumphs and tribulations of women entrepreneurs.

• Rachel Zoe [48:06]: "I got very inspired today. I also love keeping it real... Thank you so much for listening to Climbing in Heels."

Katie and Micah’s story serves as a testament to the power of friendship, unwavering commitment, and authentic leadership in building a successful and impactful brand.

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Notable Quotes

• Rachel Zoe [05:16]: "How did you even find each other? How does this even happen?"

• Katie Lee [04:12]: "We met almost 30 years ago in college."

• Katie Lee [08:22]: "We wrote every single thing down before we even launched the blog. And a lot of those things today are true."

• Katie Lee [13:26]: "As a black woman in the beauty industry, I did not have a choice but to be excellent."

• Katie Lee [36:14]: "I've never been the colorist that wanted to fry anybody's hair."

• Micah Harris [37:32]: "Over 75% of women will experience hair loss in their lifetime."

• Katie Lee [44:42]: "Cleo Wade brought multiple investors to the table that accounted for a huge part of our raise."

• Micah Harris [22:43]: "It's okay, because it's different."

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a deep dive into the perseverance, strategic vision, and heartfelt authenticity that Katie Lee and Micah Harris embody. Their journey with Highbrow Hippie not only provides valuable insights into building a successful brand but also serves as an inspiring narrative for aspiring female entrepreneurs navigating their own paths in the business world.

Transcript

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[Rachel Zoe]

Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zo and you're listening to Climbing in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and fun. Okay, today I'm joined by the incredible friend duo and talented women behind the hair care and hair wellness brand Highbrow Hippie. After working with some of Hollywood's biggest stars, Katie Lee and Micah Harris launched Highbrow Hippie as a blog sharing beauty and wellness tips, which evolved into an atelier salon and now incredible products that support hair loss and hair health. These incredible women have such a clear vision for their brand and their method of working quietly is fascinating and inspiring. So let's get right into it.

I'm very excited to talk to you. I've known of you for many, many years. I know many of the extraordinary women that you work with. But I first want to go back because climbing in heels is really about celebrating and talking about the journey. And also, similar to a seat at the table dinners, it's about talking about how hard it is for us as women in general to make it in anything, let alone have a dream. I want to go back a little bit to, like, how did you even find each other? How do. How are you? How does this even happen? Because, you know, I think you've probably lived and worked long enough to know that, you know, partnerships, especially with friends, it doesn't always work. Right. And this is clearly working. So I want to talk a little bit about how it started and what happened.

[Katie Lee]

So we met almost 30 years ago in college.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah.

[Katie Lee]

And we were both working in fashion at bcbg. Really?

[Rachel Zoe]

In where?

[Katie Lee]

Atlanta, Georgia. We are both students at Spelman College. Micah was getting ready to leave for Paris to go to Parsons for her grad degree and I was a freshman. And yeah, it was our after school job and it was a good one. And I don't know, we just kind of fell into lockstep pretty quickly. That was the first meeting. And then there were a few years in between where I was still in school. Maika was in school, but at Parsons in Paris. And then we both ended up in New York City and I was working at Frederick Fakai. And I think at that point, Maika, ironically was working for dvf, of all people, who is now a client.

[Rachel Zoe]

Wow.

[Katie Lee]

And then working for the world's first, like, trend forecaster.

[Rachel Zoe]

Yeah.

[Micah Harris]

A beauty futurologist. So I was working with her doing trend forecasting on the beauty front.

[Rachel Zoe]

Wow.

[Katie Lee]

Yes. And then one day, like, what year was tough? 2001.

[Micah Harris]

One. It would have been 2001. Because it was.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

For nine, 11. That's how we'll always know. 2001.

[Katie Lee]

Ye.

[Rachel Zoe]

And I was going to Diane's studio.

[Katie Lee]

And isn't that funny. Like such, you know, passing ships. But it was a true New York story where we were both on Madison Avenue. We walked right into each other. Like actually bumped into each other.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah, yeah, actually right into each other. And then discovered that we lived around the corner from one another in Brooklyn and we went to, like, have dinner at our little local neighborhood spot and then that was it. We were just kind of off to the races.

[Rachel Zoe]

We were like in your 20s and you were like, just happy. This is meant to be. Really bumped into each other. That's so wild.

[Katie Lee]

I never walked, by the way. I was one of those, like, bougie, like, 21 year olds who spent every dime that I made at the salon on, like, car services. Back to Brooklyn.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah, of course.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

By the way, I love that about you. I see you, by the way.

[Micah Harris]

And I was the complete opposite. I'm like on the subway, you know, going back to Brooklyn. But it's like our highbrow hippie.

[Rachel Zoe]

Don't you feel like Venice is Brooklyn? Ish. Not, not literally, but just like, I feel like people who live in Venice, if they move to New York, might live in Brooklyn and vice versa.

[Katie Lee]

I mean, listen, there's definitely through lines and there's a reason why we both live here, for sure.

[Rachel Zoe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Katie Lee]

You know, it has a bit more of just freedom to it. And even though it's changed a lot in the past few years, it still has a very neighborly quality. Venice is cool too.

[Rachel Zoe]

So you're in Brooklyn. What, you come out here? When do you come here?

[Katie Lee]

Well, what happens between Brooklyn and here? I mean, a lot happened. Micah got married and moved to Europe.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah, got it.

[Rachel Zoe]

That's a glitch in the system.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. Then I moved to LA about three, three years during the time that you were in Europe? Because I would go back and forth.

[Micah Harris]

Right.

[Katie Lee]

And then once Micah was separated and back in Atlanta, we. I don't know, we just would, like, talk about what it. What if we just started this, like, blog and one of Micah's boyfriends used to call her a bourgeois bohemian and we were like, well, we can't call it that because, like, Americans will butcher the name. Yeah, I love the word highbrow. And then Micah just said the word hippie and the alliteration was working and we just. That's it. That's our blog, ready to go.

[Rachel Zoe]

I love it. So you just started blogging and that was what, like, 2000ish? 12.

[Katie Lee]

12. 1112. Where it was.

[Rachel Zoe]

Where it was called a vlog.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah, right.

[Katie Lee]

We have this list that we made, and I looked at it the other day as a manifesting list and what highbrow hippie could be. And it was like, one day we're going to have a brick and mortar, then we're going to have a coffee table book, then we're going to have a product line. I mean, we literally wrote every single thing down before we even launched the blog. And a lot of those things today are true.

[Micah Harris]

Yep.

[Rachel Zoe]

Wow. Isn't that wild? Like, because I. You don't even remember doing that sometimes, you know? And two other female founders that have a clothing line told me when I met her in Covid, because we were both in Malibu. And she said, I manifested you. And I said, what do you mean? She's like fashion obsessed. And she used to write this list of people that she knew were going to be in her life at some point. And I never believed in that. And I. Not that I didn't believe in it, but like, I'm a little. I'm scared to put those things down because if you don't achieve them, then I feel like a failure. Right. So. So. But it's interesting with you guys because it's almost like everything kept bringing you back right together. And then I feel like the fact that you had the same shared dreams, the fact that you kind of lived your separate lives and then together lives, right? Because you guys don't seem the type to me, from the little I know you, to put yourselves out there in a very public manner, a very loud manner, or a very soliciting manner. I find you to be quite the opposite. So clearly it's your talent that actually got you where you are, because you do touch and style, obviously hundreds and maybe thousands of heads and hair and people, but like, you inarguably do some of the biggest names in the world and who have access to anyone in the business. So despite how nice, despite how professional, despite how whatever, you're clearly both extremely talented. So I want to sort of talk about that because it's very hard to launch a brand and product and brick and mortar and all the things while still maintaining the integrity of the brand.

[Katie Lee]

Right.

[Rachel Zoe]

So I talk about that. The. The talent is obviously what's speaking over. Over everything else. So I want to talk about, like, how you sort of balance the. Still touching the. The people and. And doing what you do to still keep the other parts of it going strong. Because it's the other parts of it that is the actual tangible business. Right. And. And coming up as a stylist and then launching a brand and product. I know how hard it is. I know how scary it is. But I do know you get to that inflection point where you're like, what I do is providing a service. What I do is dictated by how hard I work. Right. Like, every minute I work is how much I make, more or less. And at some point, you say, what happens if you need to have something that can live on beyond you or outside of you? Right. So at what point did you guys decide to say, okay, let's do some of these things that we've dreamed about, talked about, because it's scary.

[Micah Harris]

It is.

[Katie Lee]

I'm going to say something really quickly, Micah. Then I want you to build on it because you asked a few questions. One point that you made is that we do work really hard, and we work in silence. And we've never felt. Which is rare.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah. It's like we laugh because we feel as though, you know, people are like, whoa, surprise. Sometimes when we do things, and it's.

[Katie Lee]

Like, we've been here.

[Micah Harris]

We've been here. We've been doing this and keep going.

[Rachel Zoe]

Overnight success of 20 years of work.

[Katie Lee]

Exactly. You know, like, we are two very grown women. But so. So you first touch on the service point. And as you know, like, you cannot maintain a career of 25 years in this industry with the clients that I've amassed being a colorist by not being excellent. And there are a few things that always drive that, like, you know, Mike and I have never been one to kind of bat around a subject. And the. The bottom line is, as a black woman in the beauty industry, I did not have a choice but to be excellent. I didn't. I couldn't fall back on anything. It wasn't about my, like, winning personality. Although, you know, catch me on the right day. I could be pretty funny. But, like, usually it's a. It all comes down to, am I doing good work?

[Micah Harris]

Yes.

[Katie Lee]

So while I was focused on really just being really excellent at my craft, and I was always known as the hardest worker. Like, I will outwork anyone. I love it. You know, I'm a Leo, and I'm a Jamaican immigrant. So, like, it's like, put any stereotype on me with that, and, like, I'm gonna do it. What?

[Rachel Zoe]

You sound like a Virgo.

[Katie Lee]

Oh, we both have Virgo tendencies, actually. You should see the level of attention.

[Rachel Zoe]

I feel it.

[Micah Harris]

Like, why aren't these papers not in the stack? We're very meticulous, my cat.

[Katie Lee]

They don't see what we see. You Know, I mean, we serve every single beverage at highbrow hippie with a pressed linen napkin. It's to the next level. It's kind of disturbing sometimes, but going back to how it happened, you know, while I was busy building, very slowly, you know, Micah was also in Atlanta owning a company in the beauty space. She owned, like, Atlanta's first natural waxing and nail studio. So. So she had some experience on the back end of actually running a business and running it well. I knew a. Obviously everything changed when Julia Roberts became my client. It. She put a level of trust in me that really took my confidence to the next level. And once that happened and we knew that we could create a space where women who were discerning and who really craved peace and privacy could go, we knew that we could put our heads together, not only create a physical space that was like everything we ever dreamed of, but we could also translate that into a product that people could take home as well.

[Rachel Zoe]

By the way, Julia's unbeliever. I think it's like she's magic.

[Katie Lee]

She's actual magic and. Or starting human beings ever, you know, both her and Serge Vermont, who is my mentor.

[Rachel Zoe]

I love him. I mean, I love that man. I love him like, I love him like, when I see him, it is like, it's love. A love, a warmth. He is. Is one of the greatest of all time as not just talent, but just as a life. And it makes sense, all of it, that Julia chooses all of you.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. I mean, I'm like the most junior person kind of in the long term squad. And I've been around for over 15 years with her. So she really, she chooses her family. We choose her right back. Serge and Julia have been such big supporters of Micah and I. She was the very first person to ever step into highbrow hippie, the physical space. Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

By the way, if you're going to dream a dream of who's ever going to walk into your space, I'm pretty sure Julia Roberts is number one.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. Is there any more iconic hair that exists?

[Micah Harris]

And the smile, by the way, I.

[Rachel Zoe]

Was going to say it's the hair, it's the smile, it's her, it's all the things. And she chose you. That's the thing that. That's my point. It's like your success is for a reason. And I always say the people that stand out. You can get somewhere, you can have an introduction, you can have help, you can have all the things. But the talent ultimately is the only thing that will keep you There.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah. Yep.

[Rachel Zoe]

You can get there. You can get there. Yeah.

[Micah Harris]

One thing I wanted to add in terms of building this sustainable brand, I think that one thing that has always worked for us, and it's kind of overused, but this idea of being authentic, like, everything that we're doing, that we're putting out, that we're discussing, that we are trying to share with our clients in our community, is authentically what we would want for ourselves, you know, and so we're viewing it through that lens often. Like, you know, if we were on the other side of this, what would work for.

[Katie Lee]

For us?

[Micah Harris]

And sometimes, you know, we're doing things and people are like, oh, I don't really know about that, but eventually it catches up, you know, like what we might be seen as doing something that's slightly against the grain. You know, Katie kind of touched on this earlier. It's like she didn't really have a choice. You know, it's like, you're this black woman. You're showing up in this way, and so you have to have the hard conversation. You have to acknowledge certain things. So we've always been, like, very outspoken around politics and things that were happening in our world as a startup brand, you know, because it was very authentic to us. And now, of course, everyone's, you know, discusses this idea of, you know, who are you as a brand? Like, authentically, are you expressing yourself? And, you know, we've always done that, and we'll continue to be that way.

[Rachel Zoe]

I think that the consumer or client, I. I think they see authenticity. They know it, they're saying, than I think they're given credit for, you know.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

I'd love for you to talk about sort of what is most exciting to you, like, in terms of what you're doing now, like, in terms of product, in terms of the space. Are you planning on opening more?

[Katie Lee]

Oh, God.

[Rachel Zoe]

So brutal, right? Like, the best thing and the hardest.

[Katie Lee]

Like, where we are. We love a small team. We love a small space.

[Rachel Zoe]

Smaller the better.

[Katie Lee]

Who in their right mind would take on more real estate right now? You know, it's not worth it. But I will say what. Sometimes brands that launch a product, what they do is they launch the product and then they try to find the community afterwards around that product. I think what really is working for us and has always worked is that we had the community first.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah.

[Katie Lee]

And then we leaned on them. Before we launched one product, before we designed any packaging, Micah had this idea. We did this huge survey, and we really took the downtime that we had During COVID like, seriously. And while we were scrambling to make sure that the atelier could even stay open, we got this survey up and running, and we asked our clients everything about their beauty closet. What are you buying right now? How much are you spending? What are your top three items? What are your top five items? What are your top 10 items? And we took that information and took their concerns, and that was our starting point for developing our product line. So we have this community of women that. It's like the best secret, you know, that they are the most discerning. They want us to. To succeed, but they also want us to make things that they can use.

[Rachel Zoe]

Yeah, sure.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

And how big is the range now of products?

[Katie Lee]

We just launched with two. Two more coming out in a few months.

[Rachel Zoe]

I think you roll out slow and.

[Katie Lee]

Steady, slow and steady. But we. By the end of next year, we'll have about eight in the love.

[Rachel Zoe]

And it's. And it's always neat. What kind of affects you and what doesn't, like, what gives you, what makes it hard to go to sleep. Are you. Do you have fears about doing this? It's because just being an entrepreneur is very different than being an artist.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. I mean, everybody has fears. I certainly do. And, you know, I'm in the throes of perimenopause as Micah, so it's so fun. Yeah. So anxiety and lack of sleep and worrying at night is just part of the game. But I mean, of course you have fears that, listen, I worry, are we late? You know, but then if we're late, just do it better. Yeah, I. I don't know. Maybe I don't have fears. I feel like we have this army of women behind us that like always, I look to them and I just know it's going to be okay. I know that one thing that Mike and I. And I feel like I'm talking too much, so I'm going to shut up real soon. Micah. But one thing that her and I.

[Rachel Zoe]

Something tells me you guys would cut each other off if you needed to.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, we would. What? But one thing that I think is important that a lot of people don't talk about as entrepreneurs is that we've always had the same end game. And we always knew that in a few years, you know, we do want to sell the company. We want to exit. We want to do different things with our lives. We want to have different chapters in our lives. And I think once you know where you're going, it's easy to just be in the present, because then you know, what you're working towards. Like what one person said to us, like, I mean, how could you be thinking ahead? Like, don't you want to hold on to it forever? And we're both like, no, we sure don't. Nope.

[Micah Harris]

It's like we want to build something great, you know, and pass it off to someone else. Because I think that's the fun. I mean, for me, the fun is in the building, right? Like having this thing that you build, you create and then you iterate and you build something else. You create that and at some point, you know, you hand it off to somebody else to continue, continue doing that. Are they going to do it the way that you would do it?

[Rachel Zoe]

No.

[Micah Harris]

But at that point, who cares?

[Katie Lee]

Who cares?

[Rachel Zoe]

That's okay, because it's different. I'm a huge believer in not for everybody, but I'm a huge believer in building something to the point where you have maxed out what you can do for it and then it's time for it to fly with somebody else, you know, spread the wing and move on, you know, And I think that's, you know, at least for me, I think that's just a great. It's like, it's kind of making peace with like exactly what you said. It's like creating something and growing it and then at some point you wake up and go, it's like time to fly with somebody else now, you know, and, and it doesn't always happen. And it's not necessarily the dream for it for everybody. You know, I've had amazing founders on, on the pod that are just like, no, no, no, that's. I have no exit plan. That's never my thing. And then I have people like, I'm exiting it in two years from now.

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[Rachel Zoe]

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[Cleveland Clinic Representative]

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[Rachel Zoe]

Yeah, you guys, I'm so impressed with you. I think surrounding yourself with people like the emigre of the world, even though there's only one emigre by the way, and like Diane von Furstenberg, I think these are women that I think we need to get inspired by women like this regularly and surround ourselves with women like who do quite frankly give you a, you know, have you guys ever had any challenges, like, working together? Because, as I said, the best friend thing, the partner thing, it doesn't always work, but when it does, it's like the perfect magic. Right. And so what do you think makes it work so well with you guys? And have you ever had a moment where you felt like you couldn't agree on where you wanted to take something, or are you always so in sync?

[Katie Lee]

Oh, no, no. We're human. Of course. We're too very.

[Rachel Zoe]

I think it's great. I think it's healthy.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. We're two very different individuals, you know, And I think because we have the same end goal, we're always going to be on the same page. And, you know, like, that thing where someone. If someone else talks about your family, you're fighting them. But, like, you know, you all could fight, like, internally, like, nobody can come.

[Micah Harris]

For Micah, nobody can come for Katie.

[Katie Lee]

But when it comes to the two of us, we're both Leo women. It is gnarly. Sometimes. I don't know. Even when, you know, I'm sure I drive her nuts, and even when she's driving me nuts, it's just kind of like we retreat to our corners and you just keep it moving, you know, because the world is against black women enough. At the end of the day, we're never going to throw each other under the bus. Like, we have different strengths. We try to go back to highlight those strengths, but, you know, we're not as close as friends anymore. But I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I think it makes us better, like business partners. I think she needs different things out of friendships. You know, she's a mom and I'm not, and I need different things out of friendships. Like, that support, like, my phase in life. I don't know. I think, like, having the shared history helps because there's trust there. Like, I'm not going to let somebody else come in and, you know, know half the things about my life that Micah does, and vice versa. Yeah. Very different people, too.

[Rachel Zoe]

One thing I want to touch on is you. You mentioned perimenopause, and I feel like menopause is this thing where, like, it's the weirdest thing because no one talked about it for, like, a hundred years, and now I feel like there isn't, like, a room you walk into where women aren't talking about it.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah. And.

[Rachel Zoe]

And thankfully, I think, you know, very big public women are talking about it, writing books about it, and from Halle Berry, Naomi Watts, like, it goes on Gwyneth like, you know, everyone. And I think I want to talk about that because I think something that I imagine is a huge conversation in your. In your salon is hair loss. Because I feel like that's. I mean, I must hear a friend or a dinner or an event or literally anything. There. There's someone I know or don't know that says, oh, my God, my hair's falling out. From the age of 38 to 55. Like, it's just like, oh, my God, my hair used to be this. Or my. I. I know that that's some of the focus of the product, but, like, tell me how that impacts you and how often you hear this in the room, because I imagine it's daily.

[Katie Lee]

I mean, it's.

[Rachel Zoe]

It's hourly.

[Katie Lee]

Hourly. Yeah. So what interesting thing is that, you know, I'm in my 25th year of being a hair colorist, and a lot of the clients that I started with when I was in my 20s are now going through the same phase of life that Mike and I are. If they're not going through perimenopause, they're going through postpartum. And if they're going through that, then they're dealing with maybe an illness or some sort of chronic condition. And again, going back to that survey that we took, there was not one person that did not want help with their hair health and their hair loss. And so we knew that there was absolutely no freaking way we were gonna launch with a shampoo and conditioner. Right. Nobody talk about saturated. Nobody wants it, nobody needs it, Nobody cares. Nobody cares.

[Rachel Zoe]

Unless it's literally putting liquid gold in your head to grow your hair. Yeah, that's the only way it's gonna stand out.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. So our poor chemists and formulators, I mean, we were like, okay, that's great. What else? What else? And we would just push it and, like, listen. Before it also became trendy, Micah was taking all sorts of herbs and things. I mean, it became clear that, like, a supplement was going to be one of the first go tos, but we had to. It also was clear that we had to have some sort of through line with the internal and the external, because they both were affecting hair health and hair loss. That's where our strengths also came in. Maika really took the lead with the supplement. I took the lead with the serum. We got to both kind of put it together, and that's where our next two releases are. Both. Both and internal as well. Or tea that has some of the same properties as the supplement, along with one of probably the best hair mask I've ever used in my whole career. And that is saying a lot. So, again, having our clients lead the charge and what are the most important things that they're needing right now? So, yeah, I just think no one's really approaching it the way that we are. Like, we're not, you know, pick a brand. Like, you know, it's not shampoo, conditioner, hairspray, like, sure. Like, that doesn't even make sense to us. It's not how we run the business on a day to day basis. People come in there really a. Obviously for excellent color and styling, but really to have like, we're kind of known to like, be the fixers. And, you know, that's how. Gosh, that's how I got Emma and Gwyneth and DVF and all of these women. And we look at these women walking through our doors who cannot be any more picky. And they're.

[Rachel Zoe]

That's my point. Yeah, you guys are doing something very right over there. Taking hormones out of it. I know that's a bold statement because you can't really take hormones out of anything. So I don't really mean it that way. I just mean hair 101. You know, as someone who is not adventurous with hair, I mean, I literally am like Sharon the 70s right now. Like, my hair, I don't cut it, I don't like, it's my security blanket. Right. So.

[Oracle Salesperson]

So.

[Rachel Zoe]

And I think for many women it is. And had. I've had, unfortunately, many friends go through cancer. And it's obviously, I would say the thing that hurts most is when they lose hair. And because they don't feel like women anymore, they feel that they look in the mirror at that point and go, now I have cancer. Right? And I went through this with one of my very best friends. And I. It's like hard. I get emotional when I say I think hair is one of the most important things to us as women. And I think that when we talk about how do we preserve that, how do we. Why is everyone losing their hair? Like, meaning. I know it's hormonal. I know it's all the shifts and all the things, right? But I also know one of my best friend's moms is 75 with the most gorgeous full head of hair you've ever seen. And it's like Rapunzel. I mean, it's gorgeous. So I. I do want to understand, I guess, from where you are, is it the color? Is it bad colorist? Is it just like, what Is it that is killing the hair, or is it all of it? I know that's a very loaded question, but I think for my listeners, I want to share what young people and then just going all the way up can do to sort of preserve the health of their hair.

[Katie Lee]

Start with the external stuff that I'm gonna have Micah take over on what some of the other factors that are contributing. Listen, from the beginning, I've never been the colorist that wanted to, like, fry anybody's hair. Yeah, like, you cannot reverse some of that. And my kind of signature is like, how can we make, like, this color, the best version of what your hair really wants to do? And obviously, there are some exceptions to the rule. Like, I have to take Julia from blonde to red to, you know, all the things for her different roles. But for the most part, people have always come to us to correct bad color, to get them on, like, a healthy track with a good relationship with hair color. And it seems counterproductive because you want people coming back often so you can have their money, but, like, really do you? Because if their hair is healthy and then they're stuck with you for, like, decades, instead of then leaving you after a couple of years because you've damaged it, you're making more return that way. So I've always put my. I've always banked my career on that and been very happy with it. It may kind of pigeonhole me as maybe the boring one, but I can tell you I can fix anything, because. And then once it's fixed, they never want to leave, you know?

[Rachel Zoe]

Will you say no if someone says, I'm. I want to go platinum? Right. And you look at their hair and.

[Katie Lee]

You go, that's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. Your hair is also very different animal when you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, on and on and on, as in everything. Yeah, exactly. So I'll tell them, like, okay, you really want to try it? The hair ages just like we do. So if you really want to try it, and I think the hair can handle it, and they're good with doing a good shop afterwards. As far as the other factors of hair loss, I'll have Maika speak to that.

[Micah Harris]

Well, when you were talking about it, I was thinking about one of the major contributors to this is stress, too. Like, I mean, think about, like, the. The society and the culture that we're living in. Like, we're constantly engaged. We're constantly being fed horrific news of things that are happening not only in our backyard, but around the world and social media, we're ingesting all of these things and comparing ourselves to other people all the time. So I think a. A big part of it is the stress, you know, and what that stress does throughout our body, you know, it creates inflammation. It throws your adrenals into overdrive, and that has a compounding effect on the rest of your body. And it shows up in your hair, primarily hair and skin. So it's a big contributor.

[Katie Lee]

And when we started our research, we found out that over 75% of women will experience hair loss in their lifetime.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

That is mental.

[Katie Lee]

It's so mental.

[Rachel Zoe]

Is mental. And that needs to be said louder.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

Because my first experience was after my first son, and then it got really, really thick. And then after my second son, it just was different. Yeah, it just was different.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

And I just. I'm like, God, you guys really take everything, don't you? Words, our hair.

[Katie Lee]

They don't talk about us loud enough. And one thing that we've never had a problem with is talking. You know, we'll talk about anything and everything. We'll chat about it. If it's. If it's taboo, even better. We're like, let's talk about it more, you know, and hair loss is one of those things. And our clients, seeing that we actually were really working towards a solution, they were like, we'll trust you guys. You know, you haven't led us wrong so far. So, like Micah was saying, this constant bombardment of connection with so much technology as, well, I mean, a. I haven't seen a person that is. As technology challenges. Mike, like, she will lose her phone on purpose.

[Micah Harris]

I lost my phone on Saturday. I still don't have a new phone yet. I lost it at the balloon museum downtown. And somebody's like, aren't you freaking out? And I'm like, well, not really, because I can text from my computer, and I've been working in front of my computer, so I think this afternoon I'll go get a new one.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. And then, like, social media.

[Rachel Zoe]

That's wild.

[Katie Lee]

I'm on the highbrow hippie account, but I don't have a personal one because, like, I. I don't need any more. You know, it's.

[Rachel Zoe]

I didn't have to have it for my brand. I don't think I would have it at all.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

It's, you know, much. There's. There's a way that your brain can relax when you don't feel that you have to be, you know, something out in. Responsive or if they'll all of. But in business with a brand, as you know, you have to be right? You have to just figure out how you want to play the game. You don't have to play it the same as everyone else, but you do have to be in it.

[Micah Harris]

I think that we've worked recently and over the years, we've had a lot of ups and downs with our business. And we opened eight months to the day before COVID and had to shut down. We were one of the first ones that had to close and the last businesses that were allowed to open. So we've done a lot of this and we didn't even touch on prior to this. Things like our relationship with an old investor that went south. I mean, that's a whole nother episode.

[Rachel Zoe]

But I've been there. We've all been there. And I can tell you right now, every single woman at that table at Emma's house has been there. Yeah, at least once.

[Katie Lee]

It was devastating. And we wasted about seven years trying to get, like, highbrow hippie, the first iteration of it off the ground. And we had to start over from scratch.

[Rachel Zoe]

Okay, I want to talk about that for a second. Okay. I'm not going to let you stay. I'm not going to let you pass over that, because the whole intention of climbing in heels is talking about that. And every woman that I've had on here, every single one, has said the same thing. It's like, you know, this brand because this is the brand that's winning. But there was so many fails before this that you never heard about, that I cried in my kitchen, that I cried in my closet, that I lost everything that I, you know, and the stories are endless, and they're always going to be. And I think at the end of the day, what goes public typically is the win. Right? You know, some people fall harder than others. Some people, it hurts more than others. Seven years is a lot, is a lot. I mean, it's a lot. And you're never going to forget it. And you learn from it, but it's also why you are where you are now. And so I think it's sort of like in those moments, you just have to, I think, trust the universe has some plan that you just may not know about yet.

[Katie Lee]

And with the way things worked out is that we were able to gain 100% control of the company. So that means for a much more handsome exit when we're ready to do so and when it was time to rebuild the fact that we still had our same mission. And we just kept at it. That's when I knew we were going to be okay. You know, we both didn't falter. We were like, okay, we have to do it in a different way. We did it in a smaller footprint. It ended up being better. Better. Less overhead. Like, we did it in a smaller space, but it was one that we could really control. And then if we had opened up the original footprint that we planned on then getting shut down with COVID we would have been dead in the water.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah. Because our overhead would have been so high.

[Katie Lee]

I still think of the day we found out that that deal went south. And I get a feeling, a pit in my stomach that to this day stops me in my tracks.

[Rachel Zoe]

I do know that feeling. And more people know that feeling than you know.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. And I did want to say, because we've, you know, touched on the Emma's and the Julia's and Gwyneths and all the people that, you know, are well known that are in our corner, you know, My very first client was this woman named Suzanne Nora Johnson. And she's still my client today. And Suzanne Nora was the first female managing director of Goldman Sachs. And I used to shampoo her hair as an assistant at Frederick Fakai. And she said, when you get promoted, I'm going to become your client. She said, I just like your hustle. I like the way you work. Suzanne Nora Johnson has been there for Micah and I in ways that are just. It could literally make me cry. She was just always there for us. She's a woman that, you know, few people may know her name, but, like, she took. She's now the current chair of the board at usc. She took over for Rick Caruso Cash, and. But she's just this legend who. She's always treated us. It didn't matter if we were 22 or now in our late 40s. Suzanne has always treated us as smart, capable women. Whenever we really needed, like, just the real deal, she would give it to us. And she is now, you know, one of our investors, as are many of our longtime clients. Those women. And there are many women, like citizens. Suzanne, our lead investor, is a client of mine who I've had for 23 years, who nobody would know. And she is not rich or famous, but she gave us a quarter of a million dollars on the spot.

[Rachel Zoe]

You have to think about that, because as someone who is an investor, you know, there are moments where I meet women that are so impressive in these moments. And I'm like, are you doing a race? Like, are you because you want to be part of.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

Their orbit.

[Micah Harris]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zoe]

Because you are a believer. And to me, I think especially I do think that's a little bit how women invest. It's kind of like the same way we approach anything in life.

[Micah Harris]

Right.

[Rachel Zoe]

With our heart.

[Micah Harris]

Right.

[Rachel Zoe]

It's sort of like you feel it, you're connected to it, you believe in it because otherwise you can't do it.

[Katie Lee]

Yeah. One of your biggest fans, our a mutual friend, Cleo Wade. She love, you know, Cleo. I've only been friends with her for a few years. Cleo brought multiple investors to the table that ended up accounting for a huge part of our raise herself. We just had these people show up for us in big ways and not all of them are big names. And I think it's important for.

[Rachel Zoe]

They don't need to be that.

[Katie Lee]

They don't need to be.

[Rachel Zoe]

They don't need to, you know. Anonymous. Yeah, like, it's just having that support. It's just having that support. And I'll tell you this, you know, and I think it's part of why Emma started 15% with Aurora and started doing a seat at the table dinners with Stephanie from Google. Because these are champions of women. But what I will say is women don't just support and write checks to be cool. And it doesn't matter how much money they have or don't have. They invest if they're believers, they're, they invest if they connect with it. And I've seen that over and over because I've seen, I've also seen women not be able to get a check from a woman.

[Micah Harris]

Right.

[Rachel Zoe]

You know, so I see that a lot. So it's not because you're a woman. It's not, you know, it's not for any of those reasons. It's because the talent is there, because they're experiencing it, because they're living it and because they believe in it. And I am so excited to watch you guys grow. And timing is everything, guys. And everything happens for a reason. I believe that. I've lived it, trust me. And there are those moments where you like sit in your closet just crying by yourself and you're like, I can't, I can't, I can't. I'm done. Like, this is like I'm, I'm exiting stage left.

[Katie Lee]

I cannot do that.

[Rachel Zoe]

And then, you know, and then you get that light and you get that client and you get that woman who's like, yeah, you're doing this. And this is how, and this is why. And these are the people that are going to come join the room and, you know, and you get that and you don't forget that. And you don't forget that, you know, so I'm here for the ride. I'm here to watch you guys. I'm gonna come in and have you guys, you know, transform me. I adore you both. You're so impressive. I'm so obsessed with highbrow hippie and so is everybody. And, you know, I think we're really excited to for everyone to be able to get a piece of highbrow hippie now. Thanks for being on.

[Micah Harris]

Thanks for having us.

[Rachel Zoe]

Thank you so much to Katie and Micah for coming on the pod today. I have mad respect and admiration for what they've built and what they have planned for the future. The women, famous and not known, just brilliant women that continue to support them and help them grow and live their brand just is a testament to the talent and the authenticity of their brand. I mean, you guys, Julia Roberts, it's.

Like I don't even.

There's another 50 names that are the most famous in the world. But let's just start and end with Julia. And I just want to say I learned a lot today. I got very inspired today. I also love keeping it real. I also love talking about the what feels like a failure in the moment in order to move forward and be exactly where you're meant to be. So thank you so much for listening to Climbing in Heels. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the Iheart app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You don't miss a single episode this season. And be sure to follow me on Instagram at Rachel Zo and the show Climbing in Heels pod for the latest episodes and updates. I will talk to you soon.

[LifeLock Representative]

It's tax season, and by now I know we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's an important one you need to hear. $16.5 billion. That's how much money in refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Here's another 20%. That's the overall increase in identity theft related to tax fraud in 2024 alone. But it's not all grim news. Here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's US based restoration specialists will fix it, backed by another good number, the million dollar protection plan. In fact, restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't face identity theft and financial losses alone. There's strength in numbers with Lifelock Identity theft protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off terms apply.

[Oracle Salesperson]

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[Cleveland Clinic Representative]

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