ICYMI: Bozoma Saint John

Summary

Podcast Summary: Climbing in Heels with Rachel Zoe – Episode: ICYMI: Bozoma Saint John

Release Date: April 4, 2025

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Introduction: Meeting Bozoma Saint John

In this compelling episode of Climbing in Heels with Rachel Zoe, host Rachel Zoe welcomes Bozoma Saint John, a luminary in the marketing world with an impressive tenure at industry giants like Pepsi, Apple Music, and Netflix. Rachel sets the stage by highlighting Bozoma's multifaceted career and her vibrant personality, promising listeners an insightful conversation filled with personal anecdotes and professional wisdom.

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Early Life and Formative Years

[04:00] Bozoma Saint John:
Bozoma delves into her childhood, sharing the challenges of growing up as the child of an immigrant father from Ghana and a proud African mother. Moving frequently across the U.S. and Africa, Bozoma describes her childhood in Colorado Springs as chaotic yet pivotal in shaping her identity. She candidly discusses her struggles with fitting in due to her height and cultural background, stating:

"I would have happily traded places with everybody else. I wanted to have white skin. I wanted to be shorter. I didn’t want to be different from anybody else in Colorado Springs." [07:15]

Her mother's unwavering pride in their African heritage instilled in Bozoma a deep sense of self-acceptance and celebration of her roots, despite the pressures to conform.

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Career Beginnings and the Spike Lee Connection

[17:18] Bozoma Saint John:
Bozoma recounts a serendipitous encounter with Spike Lee that marked the beginning of her illustrious career. While navigating the streets of New York City post-college, she landed a job with Spike Lee's agency after demonstrating her keen eye for marketing during a chance meeting. Bozoma shares the pivotal moment:

"Destiny literally came and met me at that corner, and I got a placement with Spike Lee because he had the courage to let me read his manuscript." [19:35]

This experience not only honed her marketing skills but also ignited her passion for integrating pop culture into advertising, laying the foundation for her future endeavors.

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Professional Growth and Leading Major Brands

[26:40] Bozoma Saint John:
Bozoma reflects on her journey through top-tier companies like Uber, Endeavor, and Apple, emphasizing her strategic approach to career moves. She highlights her philosophy of advancing against conventional advice and trusting her instincts:

"I keep my own counsel. I don't ask anybody for their advice on what career move I should make." [32:56]

Her fearless attitude and relentless pursuit of excellence have positioned her as a trailblazer in the marketing industry, earning her C-suite roles and widespread recognition.

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Mastery of Social Media in Modern Marketing

[35:08] Bozoma Saint John:
Bozoma shares her insights on the evolving landscape of social media, viewing it as just another platform for storytelling rather than a panacea. She emphasizes the importance of tailoring narratives to fit each platform's unique dynamics:

"Mastery of the narrative, mastery of your story, mastery of the message, and then figuring out what platform is going to work best on." [35:05]

Bozoma likens social media strategies to ancient marketing techniques, underscoring the timeless principles of effective communication and brand storytelling.

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The Urgent Life: Personal Tragedy and Empowerment

[38:43] Bozoma Saint John:
In a deeply personal segment, Bozoma opens up about the profound impact of losing her husband to cancer a decade ago. This tragedy fueled her drive to live an "urgent life," a concept she explores in her memoir. She poignantly describes the emotional turmoil and resilience required to rebuild her life:

"I am living the biggest life that I can. And I refresh confused for anyone to tell me, oh, you know what? Do it on the next one... This is my life." [40:27]

Bozoma's narrative emphasizes embracing vulnerability and using personal hardships to foster empathy and stronger leadership qualities.

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Leadership and Empathy

[43:07] Bozoma Saint John:
Drawing from her personal experiences, Bozoma discusses how overcoming significant life challenges has enhanced her ability to lead with empathy. She believes that true leadership stems from understanding and connecting with others on a human level:

"I'm a better leader because I'm a widow. I'm a better leader because I'm a single mom. I'm a better leader because I have experienced, you know, someone really close to me who died by suicide." [43:08]

This empathetic approach not only garners trust but also inspires those around her to navigate their own struggles with strength and grace.

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Embracing Change and Future Ventures

[50:03] Bozoma Saint John:
As the conversation turns to the future, Bozoma reveals her excitement about embarking on new ventures, including writing her memoir “The Urgent Life” and exploring opportunities beyond corporate roles. She speaks passionately about embracing change and the continuous evolution of her career:

"I'm always so excited about this time in life... I'm always so excited about every evolution that I have." [46:44]

Bozoma underscores the importance of living authentically and seizing opportunities that align with one's personal and professional aspirations.

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Conclusion: Living an Urgent Life

Rachel Zoe wraps up the episode by reflecting on Bozoma’s inspiring journey from overcoming personal and professional challenges to becoming a leading figure in marketing. She highlights the profound lessons listeners can take away about resilience, authenticity, and the power of storytelling in both life and business.

Bozoma leaves listeners with a powerful message:

"Live the fullest life that you can. This is my life. Today is the day." [52:41]

This episode not only celebrates Bozoma Saint John's remarkable achievements but also serves as a motivational blueprint for aspiring entrepreneurs and leaders striving to make their mark while staying true to themselves.

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Key Takeaways:

• Embrace Your Heritage: Bozoma’s upbringing instilled a deep sense of cultural pride, crucial for personal and professional authenticity.

• Seize Opportunities: Her chance meeting with Spike Lee exemplifies the importance of being prepared and open to unexpected opportunities.

• Master Storytelling: Effective marketing relies on compelling narratives tailored to each platform’s strengths.

• Lead with Empathy: Personal hardships can enhance leadership by fostering genuine connections and understanding.

• Live Urgently: Embracing an "urgent life" means living fully and authentically, making the most of every moment.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Today's the day." – Bozoma Saint John [24:13]

• "I will never forget it. Even now, in tough situations... I'm always like, today's the day." – Bozoma Saint John [18:53]

• "I keep my own counsel. I don't ask anybody for their advice on what career move I should make." – Bozoma Saint John [32:56]

• "Mastery of the narrative, mastery of your story, mastery of the message." – Bozoma Saint John [35:05]

• "Live the fullest life that you can. This is my life. Today is the day." – Bozoma Saint John [52:41]

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Final Thoughts

Bozoma Saint John's journey, as shared on Climbing in Heels with Rachel Zoe, is a testament to resilience, strategic thinking, and the power of embracing one's authentic self. Her story offers invaluable lessons on navigating the complexities of career advancement while maintaining personal integrity and fostering meaningful connections. Listeners are left inspired to pursue their passions with courage and live their lives with intentional urgency.

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For more inspiring conversations and stories from female powerhouses across various industries, subscribe to Climbing in Heels with Rachel Zoe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Child of a B2B Marketer]

My dad works in B2B marketing, but I never really knew what that meant. Then one day my dad came by my school for career day and told everyone in my class he was a big Roaz man. Then he just kept saying things like, the bigger the Roaz, the better. Over and over. My friends still laugh at me to this day. I think it means calculating a return on ad spend. One thing is for sure, I'll be known as the Roaz man's kid for the rest of my days. Why couldn't you just be a fireman or a lawyer? Why? You ruined my life, dad.

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[Matt]

Hey, everyone. Matt here with Joel from How to Money. Joel, I know you like a good road trip. What's the last one that you've taken? Okay, well, this was a flight, not a drive, but my wife and I just got back from the iHeart Podcast Awards in Austin, Texas. That was a lot of fun. And I knew it was gonna be a hectic trip, so I booked a comfortable Airbnb for us that was very walkable to downtown. It was perfect. Yeah, and nothing worse than like spending half your trip stuck in traffic when you're trying to enjoy a new city, walking, even running around on foot. That is the way to do it, man. Agreed. Yeah. And you know what hit me while I was there, Matt? How brilliant it is to list your own place on Airbnb when you're traveling. Especially now that you can team up with a co host who handles everything for you. Find a co [e-mail] host when it.

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[Rachel Zo]

Hi, everyone. I'm Rachel Zo, and you're listening to Climbing in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration, and fun. If I were to do an intro that I included all of the executive roles that this woman has held and the amazing recognition that she's gotten throughout her career, I would literally be here for days. Bozema or Bose St John has been a major force in marketing for some of the biggest, most successful companies around corporations like Pepsi, Apple Music, and Netflix, just to name a few. She's not only used her experience in marketing to educate others, but she also has shared her own personal, personal brief story to empower others to live an urgent and present life. She also happens to be unbelievably fabulous and glamorous and unapologetically herself. I am so thrilled she's on the pod today. So, everyone, meet Beau's St. John. I am so excited. So let's jump right into it. You look gorge and you're doing it, so here we go. I want to talk to you about so many things, but I think I first want to talk about sort of like, highlights of childhood. Like, were you an amazing kid? Were you dynamic? Were you, like, I got to get out of here. Where were you born? I mean, and I know, but I want you to share, so.

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, even before I get to that, can I just tell you that I'm so obsessed with the name of this podcast? Like, I am. I'm a real, like, marketing nerd.

[Rachel Zo]

Yes.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, like, me, too.

[Rachel Zo]

I'm a closet marketing nerd.

[Bozema St. John]

I'm like, I could. I will really, like, don't take me to a cocktail party. And then, like, I get stuck in a corner with somebody who likes a little bit about marketing, I will go. And so I saw the name of this podcast, and I was just like, this is so damn brilliant. Yes.

[Rachel Zo]

Well, because you know what that means.

[Bozema St. John]

You know exactly what that means. You know how hard that is. You know exactly the type of person we're talking about. You know, we know the ambition that it's going to require. Like, girl, if you slip a little bit with that leg Stiletto, you got to grab on with the other arm. You know what I mean? Exactly.

[Rachel Zo]

Correct. It's. Exactly. And I always tell people, it's like, you know, some of the amazing women I've had in here, they're like, you know, I don't wear heels. I'm like, you know what this means? Like, you know what this means? It's about embracing the powers of femininity and whatever that means to you while you're crushing. Great.

[Bozema St. John]

This. That's. That's the whole thing. So that's what I first wanted to say.

[Rachel Zo]

I love that. Thank you. It means a lot to me because naming things is everything.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. The name. Fabulous name. So how did I get here?

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah, I mean, listen, share as much or as little you can. Give me the flash to, like, really. The meat, if you want. Whatever. Whatever works for you. I just like to know why you're you.

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah, I do feel like my child. I mean, I think everybody's childhood really does frame who they are, but I think there's some people who really come into themselves, like in their 20s or in their 30s or maybe even your 40s. But I came to myself at 12. It really did. You know, it's like. So I was born in the US in Middletown, Connecticut. My dad was getting two PhDs at middle. @ Wesley University. He's an immigrant. United. Yep. He was an immigrant from Ghana. My mom joined him here, and they were like the classic immigrant story, you know, My dad came to get a better education, better way of life, but he's truly a Pan Africanist, you know, like one of those, like, 60s type guys who was like, yeah, power to the people, you know, Africa.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

And so what was happening at the time is that there was this, you know, movement. It was W.E.B. du Bois called the Talented 10th, you know, where it's like, scooped up the top 10% of brain power and put them in the US and the UK and, you know, other places. My dad was one of those people, but he decided that he didn't want to stay in the US he went back to Ghana, you know, and after teaching in the university, he joined politics and was in a government that was sadly overthrown about, you know, three years into the administration. And that's what eventually drove us back, you know, to the U.S. but, you know, we were in Kenya and we were in California and D.C. and like, all these places. So my childhood was very chaotic. You know, I moved around a lot. And for me, I think part of the reason why I say I came to myself at 12 is that we finally settled In Colorado Springs, Colorado.

[Rachel Zo]

Wow. When I was 12, random girl.

[Bozema St. John]

Okay, great.

[Rachel Zo]

Right? When you're like, boom, teenager, cool girl.

[Bozema St. John]

And I'm also super tall. I've been like, literally six feet tall since I was like 13.

[Rachel Zo]

I just want you to know, to me, that's like showing off. I just want you to know you just, like, crushed my soul. I. You know that I have zero sympathy for my friends that are like, I was so awkward and tall when I was in school. I'm like, I'm so sorry, girl.

[Bozema St. John]

Okay. But at 12, you don't want to be 6ft tall. I'm telling you. Okay. And then plus, I was like, okay, maybe. Okay, You're. You're the one. Okay. I did not. I would have happily traded places with everybody else. You know what I mean? And I'm serious.

[Rachel Zo]

I get it.

[Bozema St. John]

I would traded. I would have. I would rather have been blonde. I rather have had blue eyes. I wanted to have white skin. I wanted to be shorter. I wanted not to talk with an accent. I didn't want the food I ate at home. Like, all of the things. I was like, I just don't want to be different from anybody else in Colorado Springs.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

But God bless my mother. God bless my mother, who in our household, she's a stay at home mom. She was adamant about her pride for not just being black, but being African.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know?

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

And it forced me into my own. I don't even say acceptance, but celebration.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah. You know, it's super hard.

[Bozema St. John]

It's like hard enough. Like, imagine when the substitute teacher is like calling out the names and I'm just like, oh, my gosh, she's gonna mess up my name. Yeah. The dread of it. You know what I mean? I was just like, call me some nicknames. I don't know, you know, but my mother was like, hey, look, when your little girlfriends come over here, you know, to come hang out at the house for sleepover, whatever. Finally, when I've been accepted into the cool girls club, you know.

[Rachel Zo]

Sure.

[Bozema St. John]

And they were coming over and I was like, please, can we have some pizza? Or like, can you get McDonald's? Or like something that they would like?

[Rachel Zo]

And she was at that age, make my friends happy. Make my friends happy.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. And she was like, no, we're not going to do that. We're. I'm going to make them some Ghanaian food and we're going to eat that. And I was like, please, I beg you. Like, anything but that girl. Let me tell you how my best friend Summer. Okay? Who Was the epitome of, like, Right. The color Springs girl. Right? Her name is Summer. I mean, come on, give me a break. Like, it's like she's just.

[Rachel Zo]

Oh, I have the visual. I have the visual. You already have the blondest hair, the bluest eyes, the fairest skin, beautiful ringlets, green eyes. Yeah, I got you.

[Bozema St. John]

Captain of the cheerleading squad. That girl. Okay. Summer was my best friend. And Summer came to visit me, like, two weeks ago. And my mom lives very close by to me. And she was like, can I have some of your mom's spinach stew? And I'm like, oh, my God, are you serious? 30 years later, you're still asking for my mom's Ghanaian food.

[Rachel Zo]

Stop.

[Bozema St. John]

You know what I mean?

[Rachel Zo]

See, I have such chills.

[Bozema St. John]

And so it's like, kind of, you know, real metal.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, which would not allow for me to be ashamed of my name. Wouldn't allow me to be ashamed of my heritage. Wouldn't allow me to be ashamed of my food. So, girl, when I tell you that when I walk into rooms and people are like, oh, how are you, like, so confident in this room? I'm just like, are you, like, you didn't grow up with my mom. But my mom was like, girl, they are going to bend to you. You are not going to bend to them.

[Rachel Zo]

You are not obsessed with her. I'm obsessed with her. You should be.

[Bozema St. John]

She's also completely bald and fierce.

[Rachel Zo]

She's probably, like, stunning with not, like, a wrinkle on that face.

[Bozema St. John]

Exactly. Sir's face. For days.

[Rachel Zo]

Damn it.

[Bozema St. John]

For days.

[Rachel Zo]

Damn.

[Bozema St. John]

But yeah, I mean, she. So for me, it's like, you know, my childhood was that. But it was also me being obsessed with pop culture. Because at the time, you know, it was like, I just wanted to fit in. So I wanted to figure out, okay, like, what. What does everybody like to do? What do they like to talk about? You know, what is cool to them? And I found that, like, this very studied approach of, like, understanding pop culture just so I could, like, have more conversations, was also a natural curiosity, which I have never lost.

[Rachel Zo]

Right.

[Bozema St. John]

So it's like, as a marketer, it serves me so beautifully because I want to know everything. I want everything about fashion. I want to know everything about sports. I want to know about film. I want to know about politics. I want to know about. Give me any topic, girl. I promise you, I know something about it.

[Rachel Zo]

I'm obsessed. So. Okay. No, because, you know, I so believe in. And that's why I always like to touch on childhood Because I do think, especially my kids now are 10 and 13. And I'm watching them form into these people, and I'm like, I don't think anyone tells parents when they have their kids how important that, like, 0 to 14 is. Right. Like, it's all important. Right. Until they leave you, it's all important. And even after that. But. But that is the. Like, give them the confidence. Get, like, let them be them. Try and teach them it's okay to be them. So what your mom did especially then, right. Cause this is not a year ago. You know, I think easier now, probably, like, good for her. And also in the middle of Colorado Springs. So.

[Bozema St. John]

Okay, in the middle of Colorado Springs to be like, girl, we're not gonna have Pizza Hut. You know what I mean? Like, she's like, no, we're not having Pizza Hut today.

[Rachel Zo]

We're having spinach stew. Deal with it.

[Bozema St. John]

That's right. Exactly. And it's going to be hot with pepper, and your little white friends are going to have their rosy cheeks, and you know what I mean? They're just going to cry.

[Rachel Zo]

Love this. Okay, so. So how long did you stay there? Like, what. At what point did you peace out from there where you were like.

[Bozema St. John]

I know, right? Well, you know, here's what's so funny, is that people ask me where I'm from or, like, where's home? I was in Colorado Spring.

[Rachel Zo]

You do?

[Bozema St. John]

No, I just say color Springs because it feels like that those were the.

[Rachel Zo]

Like, formative years, like where you became you.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. But it was only like five years of my life. And so now I think about. I'm just like, God, what a small amount of time. But it was so impactful to me as who I am.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

That it's where I say I'm from. Although I grew up in so many places, and when I was 18 and ready to go to college, girl, I was out of there.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah. I was like, worse.

[Bozema St. John]

Let me go.

[Rachel Zo]

But I would. I would argue to say 12 to 17. I mean, that those are the years that's where, like, you either make. You make or break. As if you either fall off or you keep going.

[Bozema St. John]

Exactly.

[Rachel Zo]

You know, so you're right.

[Bozema St. John]

It's like those formative years solidified, I think, my personality, you know, the curiosity they have about people.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, my empathy for people and for, you know, everyone who has ever othered, you know, it's like all of that stuff was born there.

[Rachel Zo]

You had a fearless mom, too, which I would venture to say that, like, some of the most successful Women. Women I know, in fact, likely all come from fearless moms, strong moms, and also, like, very often single moms. So why marketing and where'd you go to school? Because marketing is something that I always talk about. Because if I had a penny for every girl, right, like, as a senior in college, they're like, I think I just want to be in marketing. And I'm like, okay, I need you to understand the importance of marketing and.

[Bozema St. John]

Like, what it means.

[Rachel Zo]

It does. And also, like, marketing makes or breaks not just a brand, but a person. And you could take the least talented singer and they go to number one because the marketing, they may not stay there, but they may not stay there.

[Bozema St. John]

I mean, there are some tricks to help them stay for at least a little bit. You know what I mean? But you're right, you're right. I had the opposite, like, sort of upbringing where I didn't know marketing was actually an. At a career, an opportunity.

[Rachel Zo]

Sure.

[Bozema St. John]

Like I said, my parents are immigrants. They were very clear that there were only three professions, maybe four that I could do.

[Rachel Zo]

Law.

[Bozema St. John]

I could be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, perhaps an accountant. But that was only at, like, the very end. Like, if you really couldn't do anything else, you know, sure.

[Rachel Zo]

No, kill me.

[Bozema St. John]

I was actually pre med in college.

[Rachel Zo]

Of course you were. You know, of course you were.

[Bozema St. John]

I did all of the things, you know, but when I graduated, I. I definitely didn't want to go to med school, but I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I, you know, I took the mcat. Like, I did all the things. And then I said, okay, well, no, I'm going to go to New York for a year. And my parents were very against the idea. They refused to, you know, they would not support me in it at all. Like, they were like, okay, you go. You manage it yourself. Like, whatever. You pay for your own way. Do whatever you're going to do. We'll be over here waiting for you when you're ready for med school.

[Rachel Zo]

Wow. Okay, okay. I've heard this before. I mean, this is not. This is not uncommon.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes, but. And the thing is that, you know, it's like, look, I have a daughter. She's 15. I can't imagine how terrified I would be, you know, even at 21, if she were, like, in some big city by herself, doesn't know a soul, you know, all that stuff.

[Rachel Zo]

It's insane.

[Bozema St. John]

And so, like, I think back to it, I'm just like, either they were, like, very confident in my survival skills. What do they give a shit about me. Look, I'm like, which one is it? Like, I don't know where, you know, but, you know, God bless. Like, it really worked out because I knew one person, actually, one person that I had gone to college with. She graduated a year before me, and she was at Columbia Film School. She was getting her master's. And so I negotiated with her even then. I had the talent of negotiation, of course, to be able to stay on her couch. She had a roommate, her and her roommate's couch. And I would cook. You know, that was basically like my. My contribution. And so I, you know, would get up every day. And again, you know, we're talking about 25 years ago, so, you know, there was. There weren't cell phones, so there was the corner, like, the payphone corner.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah, I was living there the same time as you. It's the best.

[Bozema St. John]

125Th street and Broadway, under the train, the one in the nine across, like, on the corner of Floridita Cuban restaurant right there. And what I would do is I would get up in the morning. I signed up for, like, a temp agency, and I'd get up in the morning. The first call was at 7:30. And then you call every 15 minutes until you got placed someplace, you know. And I would go inside of Floridita in between the times when I'd go to the pay phone to call. And girl, I mean, it was like. That was like just hard, hard, hard knuckles. Like, just. I didn't have enough money for food. So the very kind lady who. I wish. Rachel, I wish I could find this woman who didn't speak English, only spoke Spanish, but somehow we were able to communicate, you know. And every day she's like. And I was too proud to also ask, you know what I mean? So she likes, slide me like a buttered roll, you know, And I. And if the first few times, I was like, no, no, no, I'm fine. It's okay. It's okay. I just, you know, I just want to sit down. It's okay, you know, but, girl, I was. My mouth was watering, and I was like, you know. So eventually one day I just. I took the damn buttered roll. And she was so happy. And every day, like, I, you know, sometimes I wouldn't get a job, I wouldn't get placed. And so then I, you know, come in and just say, bye for the day. She only knew a couple words in English, but she would say, like, she would. She would be like, you know, today's the Day, Right. Today.

[Rachel Zo]

Right. Like, good luck. This is your day. Right, Right, right, right. Like, I feel it.

[Bozema St. John]

I will never forget it. Like, even now, you know, in tough situations or, like, you know, when you get antsy about a big decision or a deal you've got to strike or whatever, I'm always like, today's the day. Today's the day. It's going to happen today. You know? And it really kept me going. And the thing is that, like, look, Destiny came to meet me on that corner of 125th street and Broadway. I got a. I called in, and Spike Lee.

[Rachel Zo]

I've said, by the way, I have such.

[Bozema St. John]

This is like, I'm telling you, Destiny literally came and met me at that corner, and I got a placement with Spike Lee because he had his assistant.

[Rachel Zo]

Okay, casual.

[Bozema St. John]

But. But here's the thing.

[Rachel Zo]

I mean, by the way, today was the day. Today was.

[Bozema St. John]

Today was the day. That was the day. That was the day, okay? And I walked into that office thinking, okay, well, I'm here for, like, two or three days, right? While he finds a replacement. So let me make the best of it, you know, like, let me not get in the way. But, you know, blah, blah, blah. And again, like, I swear to you, Destiny keeps meeting me in places because that man walked into the office that day, and as he's passing by, I'm literally like, oh, you know, there's Spike Lee. And he looks at me. I have, like, my hair pulled back in a tight, you know, bun in the back. I'm wearing, like, the only gray polyester suit I have. I swear. He was.

[Rachel Zo]

Well, of course it was. You had. You couldn't eat. What were you. What were you buying? Clothes.

[Bozema St. John]

It wasn't gonna be a for. Exactly.

[Rachel Zo]

No.

[Bozema St. John]

And he says. And he. We're still friends now. And he remembers that his first thought and words to me were, oh, God damn it. They sent me Miss America. And I was like, miss America. And I had my retort. I was like, excuse me, I'm a pre med major from Wesleyan University, and I'm here to answer your phone. He was like, what the hell? But here's the thing, Rachel. He had a manuscript under his arm. And because in college, I also studied African American authors, and I took a minor in African American English. And I was like, oh, what? What do you have? And it was his. His script for Bamboozled, a film that he was making. And I asked him if I could read it. And, like, because I was naive and stupid, I didn't know any better. And so he Hands me the manuscript. Like, sure. Here. Here you go. My first day, Rachel. First day. The first time I've met this man. And so he's like. He's like, go ahead, read it and give me your thoughts. So I take a red pen to this manuscript. Shut up, girl. He literally. If you ask him this story, he'll tell you. I took a red pen to it. I made some corrections. I made some suggestions to character development. Grammar was all kind of off. I was like, why would people speak this way? No, that's not the correct English. And that. That was really the start of everything because he had started an ad agency, right. In partnership with ddb, which is a storied, you know, ad agency.

[Rachel Zo]

I know it.

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah. 437 Madison Avenue, you know, and it was like, KKR.

[Rachel Zo]

There was like, five. Yep.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. Yes.

[Rachel Zo]

There was like, right? Y and R. Young and Rubicon Y.

[Bozema St. John]

They're like, story big ones. And he said, you know, you should stick around. And I was like, I have a job. I have a job. Have a job. So that was four years of working underneath Spike, like, you know, learning his ways of managing, of being unapologetic of his creativity and his discipline to it, and just. I mean, how much better do you get at, you know, being an understudy to somebody of that caliber? But it really sparked for me the idea that there was a world of advertising and marketing that could be infused with pop culture, where my opinion could be important. You know, it's like all of these things, and that's. That's what started it.

[Rachel Zo]

That is such a sick story. First of all, I think your next book should be called Today's the Day.

[Bozema St. John]

Today's the Day.

[Rachel Zo]

Because I'm going to take that with me, if you don't mind, if I repurpose that, I think in living, whether you're in corporate or whether you're entrepreneur, whether you're trying to act or whatever, saying whatever it is, I think you always have that feeling of the. You know, I talk with pretty much anyone on the pod that it's this, it's this, it's this.

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zo]

It's not typically like this, right?

[Bozema St. John]

No, I have never met anybody like that.

[Rachel Zo]

No.

[Bozema St. John]

Right.

[Rachel Zo]

No. And so I think with that, it's nice to have those moments in your personal or professional life where you wake up and go, today's the day. And I myself, I would say I'm guilty of really never doing that. I actually, like, go the other way, which is like, oh, it's never happening.

[Bozema St. John]

Right.

[Rachel Zo]

So that Was like, I really. I'm soaking that one up, if that's okay.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes, yes. Today's the day. Today's the day.

[Rachel Zo]

So, okay, so this is. So, all right, so then how do you go from this? From this?

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah.

[Rachel Zo]

Why. Why would one leave? And where do you go after that? Because you're young at this point, right. You're probably not even 30, right? In your mid-20s.

[Bozema St. John]

No, no, no, no. By the time I. I left Spike, I was 25.

[Rachel Zo]

Right.

[Bozema St. John]

Maybe 26.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know.

[Rachel Zo]

Yep.

[Bozema St. John]

So I'd worked for him, but the thing is that he had given me such a gift, you know, of appreciating my opinion.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, not letting me feel like I was too young to have a good idea. In fact, it was my idea that led him to. It was like just, again, a confluence of moments, you know, it's like pet. He was pitching PepsiCo for their business, for their marketing business, or a slice of it, anyway. And they were looking for, you know, the next new, like, you know, spokesperson, but can. He wanted it to be a black performer. And at the time, I was out in the streets in New York City, and Beyonce had just left Destiny's Child casual, and people were hating on her, you know, at the time. I think people don't remember that.

[Rachel Zo]

Like, I remember. Yeah, they were not happy. They were not. Like, when John Lennon left the Beatles, it was like a huge issue.

[Bozema St. John]

I mean, they were literally like, well, you're not going to succeed, you know? Yeah, they were literally like, well, no.

[Rachel Zo]

You know, no, she done.

[Bozema St. John]

Great solo artist has ever succeeded from a girl group, except for Diana Ross. And you're not gonna be her, you know, and then she was also, like, trying to act, and she was trying to do all these things. And she was in a TV movie on MTV called Carmen the Hip Hopper. Okay. Destroyed by critics. I loved it. I thought it was brilliant. You know, Like, I was like, are you kidding me? Like, we've got opera and we've got, like. Like classic opera, and you've got Beyonce singing it. Oh. And there are people rapping as well. Like, this. This is incredible. You know, And Spike was asking people around the office, you know, like, who they thought would be great as a spokesperson. This and that. And folks, you know, were on the Billboard charts. They were, you know, calling out names, all these big artists. And I was like, I think Beyonce's. It's. And everybody was. I don't think. No, she's not gonna. Blah, blah, blah. But Spike listened to me. Spike heard.

[Rachel Zo]

He knows you know, and he was.

[Bozema St. John]

Like, okay, we'll take a meeting with her. She came in, I was over here like, girl, you go get him. Like, you just, you the baddest, you know, you know, by the way, still friends with them, still friends with Ms. Tina. And Ms. Tina remembers, like, I was like, yep, she's the one.

[Rachel Zo]

Beyonce's the fucking queen. And anyone who says otherwise, I will fight to the death.

[Bozema St. John]

Plenty of people who said she wasn't. But Spike believed. And so by the time I was ready to leave his agency, he had given me the confidence that, like, look, you're never too young to have the best idea in the room, right?

[Rachel Zo]

You know, what room?

[Bozema St. John]

Like, you know, because everybody else might have the criteria, might have the education, might have the credentials, but if you have a great idea, you're going to win 100%. And so I was like, oh, shit. Yeah, this is great. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for.

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[Bozema St. John]

Intro rate first 3 months only, then.

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[Bozema St. John]

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[Bozema St. John]

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[Bozema St. John]

So when I was ready to leave, at the same time, PepsiCo was looking to hire some more people, and they were gonna do it in an untraditional way because usually the marketers come from, you know, the big.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah, of course.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, like, MBAs. And I was still over here with my MCAT that was about to expire, you know what I mean? And like, oh, yeah, I'm not gonna go to med school, and I'm definitely not getting a mba. You can forget that. So I. They offered me a job, which, again, it's like destiny came in to meet me again, and I was like, oh, my God, I think I have to take this opportunity. Even though there was nobody else like me, because everybody else came together in a class with their other MBA students who were interns, and then they got offers to be assistant brand managers. Like, there was a process.

[Rachel Zo]

They went through the corporate ladder.

[Bozema St. John]

Correct. And here I was climbing through the window, talking about, Can I tell you something?

[Rachel Zo]

I'm a huge believer of climbing through the window. In fact, everything I've done in my life is probably climbing through the window. I. I've never. I don't have the patience for the. This. You know, I don't.

[Bozema St. John]

I don't have it, Rachel. I don't. So now it's like, we're not just climbing in heels, we're climbing in heels through the window. You know what I mean? Like, that we. Through the window. That's. That's how we came in. You know what I mean?

[Rachel Zo]

A hundred. And then. But then you, like, went on to, like, uber, endeavor, Apple, like, Net. So you have, like. So is it like you kind of go somewhere and you're like, okay, I'm Here for a reason and a purpose. I'm gonna do my thing. And then when I'm like, okay, we're good here, then it's like we move on, right?

[Bozema St. John]

Yes, yes, yes. And I'm so glad for the experience because the thing is that, look, looking back at my career, people will be like, oh, this is great strategy, a great plan. Blah, blah, blah. You named all the companies. C suite. I'm in the hall of fame. I'm at the hall of achievement. I'm at Billboard. Like, I've got all the credentials. So, like, you know, for me, it's like, I have had a career which has just been boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. But people will look at it and be like, oh, my God, this is a brilliant strategy. I can't believe she moved here. She moved here. She moved here. But, Rachel, I promise you, I promise you, it has been at my own pace against a lot of advice.

[Rachel Zo]

Oh, yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

Everyone who has been like, oh, no, don't do that. Don't go there. That company is shit. That manager is terrible. That CEO was crazy. Like, all of the things along my entire career, even now. Okay.

[Rachel Zo]

You don't listen to anything. You don't listen. No, I don't.

[Bozema St. John]

Like, thank God that the. The experiences I've had have made me have to listen to myself and only myself.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

Like, I keep my own counsel. I don't ask anybody for their advice on what career move I should make. Thank God, because imagine if I listened to somebody else. I'd be still sitting back over there in middle management.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

Trying to figure out what suit I should wear today.

[Rachel Zo]

False.

[Bozema St. John]

Instead of being here with you in my fricking sequins and my earrings.

[Rachel Zo]

I want to talk to. I fucking love you so much. I want to talk to you just quickly about social media because it's something I get asked a lot. Sort of the impact on the fashion industry and everything else, marketing at this point. You know, as someone who has sort of like, you know, I've had the Zoe Report. I've done all social medias. I've done television. I've done all the things I wouldn't at this point. You know, social media, for me, started as 10% of my life. Now it is. I can't even say what percentage it is because it. The. It's such a big part of everything I do in terms of amplification. So being that you are the queen, how, like, what are your thoughts on that? Because when you started, it wasn't about that. Right. And so do you feel that it's only good? Do you feel that it's like. Well, I just want to understand your. Your thoughts on that, because I have. I have love hates with it for sure, you know, but.

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah, and fair, fair. But here's the thing. I think for me, social media is just another platform to tell us. Right. You know, so for me, it's like, I don't look at social media and think like, oh, my God, it's like, you know, the next worst thing, or it's like the greatest thing ever. It's just another platform. So it's like, the point is that mastery of the narrative, mastery of your story, mastery of the message, and then figuring out what platform is going to work best on. Because let's not forget that, like, you know, platforms from, like, the Roman Empire are still available today. You know, it's like when they went in, like, tagged, you know, like a sign in the town square. They're called billboards, and it's in Times Square right now. Okay. So I'm like, look, those things still.

[Rachel Zo]

Exist, which I still believe in, by the way. Very much.

[Bozema St. John]

Same, same. Yeah.

[Rachel Zo]

A bus. A bus ad. Love a bus ad.

[Bozema St. John]

Okay. Some like graffiti, I believe all of this stuff.

[Rachel Zo]

Yes.

[Bozema St. John]

So it's like social media is like the challenge that we have. Right. For creators like you, like me, like whomever, and doesn't matter if you have 7 million followers or 300, it's that, what story are you telling? And make sure it's appropriate for the platform that you're telling it.

[Rachel Zo]

Right.

[Bozema St. John]

Because there's something that's going to be really great for the Billboard in Times Square that's not going to work on Twitter.

[Rachel Zo]

Right.

[Bozema St. John]

Or there's something that's going to be really great on TikTok that is not going to work on TV.

[Rachel Zo]

Yep.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, so it's like that is actually where the mastery of marketing then plays. Because it's like, okay, let me figure out what part of the story works on what platform, and then hit them all at the same time like lasers, you know?

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

And that's how you get a complete and total picture where you can shift the brand narrative, where you can make somebody go to number one on Billboard charts when they have no talent.

[Rachel Zo]

Sure.

[Bozema St. John]

I'm not speaking about anybody.

[Rachel Zo]

Listen. But, you know, listen, I was in New York City working in the pop world when you were there. So I'm just going to say marketing plays a big, big role. Big, big role. I want to talk to you about the urgent life. I want to talk to you about the Urgent Life, because I want to. You know, I know a little bit about why you wrote this book, but I want to hear it from you because I think it's important to share with our listeners because I really love the title. Like I said, I'm a title nerd. But I want you to speak to it a little bit because I think it's super important.

[Bozema St. John]

Thank you. Thank you. Well, I've been asked to write a book for some time because I think after I got my third C suite job, people were like, wait, hold on. Does she have that can't just be luck, right? She's gotta have something. So I was pitched all of the books. Like, I should write the Corner Suite for Dummies, Girl Boss in the C Suite. Like, you know, all these kind of things that I was like, you know what? I could do that maybe one day I will write the book. But it felt like, look, you don't become fierce or badass or, like, have the kind of grit that it requires to get to these offices without having gone through some shit.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah. You know, without taking the buttered roll.

[Bozema St. John]

Oh, without taking the buttered roll. You know, And I felt like a lot of times leaders, especially in the corporate world, hide their personal stories behind these walls because they have to appear perfect. You know, you have to appear like, oh, nothing is ever wrong. I'm never in doubt. There's never a moment where I cry or forget what I'm going to say or have a bad day. Like, I'm always the perfect leader. My teams are going to follow me to the end, you know, And I'm just like. But that actually is not how human beings behave. And, oh, by the way, everybody's lying.

[Rachel Zo]

Sure.

[Bozema St. John]

So I thought better to write my memoir because I was like, you want to get to the corner office? Well, first of all, you have to face the demons that are in your life. You also have to think about the ways in which you are actually not the same person that you were and utilize all of those things to be a more empathetic leader. A leader that people trust. You know, one that people are like, oh, she's been through something and I'm going through something. I will follow her. I will listen to her. She understands, you know, and so my book, the Urgent Life, was really based on my traumas, you know, the loss in my life, the ways in which sometimes life has just shit on me.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, my need to live a really big life because my husband passed away from cancer 10 years ago almost 11 now, just at the height of, like, you know, I was really starting to break through the. The ceiling, you know, crash.

[Rachel Zo]

And you had. And you had a young daughter at the time.

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah, my daughter was. Was four. And it was just like one of those things where you just like, oh, my God, like how, like I, you know, I had put Beyonce on the super bowl halftime stage that year, and my career was just pow, pow, pow. Singing, you know, and it's like my daughter's 4, and we're, you know, living.

[Rachel Zo]

In Manhattan and we're moving and shaking. We're living our life. How does this happen?

[Bozema St. John]

We got decades to go. And then he's diagnosed with Burkitt's lymphoma in May of 2013, which is a blood cancer. And six months later, he was dead. And I. It was just. I don't even know how to describe. Like, it was just. It was earth shattering. It was devastating. It was all of the things, like, all the fear and hurt and like, I was mad at God and like, all pissed.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, of course. Like, what is this anyway?

[Rachel Zo]

You just fell into a crack in the earth?

[Bozema St. John]

Yes.

[Rachel Zo]

Like, actually, you know, I always say, like, when those things happen, it's like if you had a visual, it's like you're standing there and you're happy, and then all of a sudden the entire earth cracks beneath you and you fall.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes.

[Rachel Zo]

And you're like, right, that's it. That's it.

[Bozema St. John]

And it's like this black hole. And you're like, how the. How do I get out of here? You know?

[Rachel Zo]

And it's hard, but it's why I.

[Bozema St. John]

Do live an urgent life now, because I'm like, it's not really about, like, speed and time. I'm not trying to, like, race the clock.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

That's really not it. What I want to do is live, like, the fullest life that I can. And that's what the urgency is about. Because, like, you don't know when we're gonna go. And I don't think that. Or a sad thing to say. I think it's as very inspirational.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

Because I'm like, girl, look, when it's my time to go, you will know that I've been here. Yes, you will know. You will feel it. And you'll be like, damn, that's a good one. Lost. You know what I mean? Because I'm. I'm living. I'm living the biggest life that I can. And I refresh confused for anyone to tell me, oh, you know what? Do it on the next one. Oh, wait. And do it later. Oh, no, I don't think that's right for you. Who are you talking to? Who, me? No, you can't be talking to me like, this is my life.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

This is my life. And so that's why it's like, when people try to deny me anything.

[Rachel Zo]

You're like, I'm sorry. No, no.

[Bozema St. John]

Okay. I'm living my own urgent life. You should live yours. And you'll probably be happier if you do that. Yeah.

[Rachel Zo]

And I love it, because the urgent life, it is such a profound statement, and it is something that I don't think I know. I don't live like that enough. I know it here that we need to do it. And I would say My parents are 83 and 87. They live every day like it is. And they have always. They have always. They're like, we could get hit by a bus tomorrow. We need to do this. And I'm like, okay, you're gonna spend every dollar you have.

[Bozema St. John]

Like, oh, my God.

[Rachel Zo]

It's like, there's some gray area here. Right. There's some middle ground here. But I. But I love it. And I think. And I think you're coming from this place of actual experience and why. And I think it's a really good thing for us to learn because you've been through it. You have been through it, and I think we've all been through it in different ways, but I think showing vulnerability as a major player in any field, as a known boss badass, there is this expectation that I'm not sure people put on us, that we put on ourselves is, I'm good. We're good. I'm good. I'm fine. We're good. What do you mean? I'm not. I'm. I'm. I'm good. Of course I'm good. Like, and you're basically like, it's cool to not be good, and it's cool to, like, you know.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. It's actually better because the thing is that I am a better leader because I'm a widow. I'm a better leader because I'm a single mom.

[Rachel Zo]

Right.

[Bozema St. John]

I'm a better leader because I have experienced, you know, someone really close to me who died by suicide.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

I'm a better leader because I have lost a child. Like, I'm a better leader because of so many things in my life that have rocked me. And I've been able to figure out, okay, like, what's the ways in which I come back to life.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, so many times, time after time after time. And so I have empathy for the world and I have empathy for people. And I will meet somebody and say, oh, my God, like, you know, whatever you're going through, like, okay, you take your time. You do what you need to do. Or maybe I can help in some way. Or the fact that, yes, I have been the other in a room.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

I have been the child of the immigrant, where people are not giving them the credit they deserve. You know, it's like I've been all of those things. And so I think I'm just a better human for having gone through all of these things.

[Rachel Zo]

And that's what you take from it, because you have to. Right. It's really hard to find that silver lining sometimes because you're like, fuck off. Why did this happen? Like, what? What?

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. Yes. And sometimes there are those days, too.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah, of course, you know, where I'm.

[Bozema St. John]

Just like, no, Literally every day you're.

[Rachel Zo]

Bitter and you're just like, why?

[Bozema St. John]

You know? But I do think that if we were all more honest.

[Rachel Zo]

Yes.

[Bozema St. John]

About the depths of our pain, the fear in our transitions, the, you know, joy and the triumph once you finally get to the thing without, you know, being like, oh, you have to somehow fake humble. Like, what, girl? When. When I reach the mountaintop, I'll be the first one who's up there. Like, I've arrived. You know what I mean? Because I've been in the Valley. Are you kidding me? You know how hard it was to get up there? You know how hard climbing in heels? You know how hard it was?

[Rachel Zo]

Wait, so you're six feet barefoot, right? You're six feet barefoot, right.

[Matt]

Yes.

[Rachel Zo]

And do you still wear heels?

[Bozema St. John]

I still wear 4 inches.

[Rachel Zo]

That is so mean. See, my real friends that are doll like you, they wear maybe a kitten heel around me just to be nice.

[Bozema St. John]

Oh, hell no.

[Rachel Zo]

And they duck and they duck for me. They squat.

[Bozema St. John]

Absolutely not. I will tell. There's not one way on God's green earth you will catch me in a kitten heel. Okay. Ain't no way.

[Rachel Zo]

So. So when I get to meet you and hug you in person, you're not going to, like, just do this a little bit just to.

[Bozema St. John]

I'm a hug you to my navel. Okay. Right here on my belt.

[Rachel Zo]

Fine. Fine. By the way, don't kid yourself. I'm going to text you pictures of me and some of the models that I've worked with in my career where I literally come up to their hip. Their leg is like. To my Actually, like, their. Their leg actually ends at my head. Yeah. True story.

[Bozema St. John]

I love it.

[Rachel Zo]

So. You are so next level. And I don't even know. I know that you're probably gonna say you have so much you want to do, so much left to do, but I do. I am curious about what is, like, now and what is, like, the next thing. If there is a next thing. Because I know you're not taking a beat. I know there's no way you're taking a beat. Not in this urgent life. Hell, no.

[Bozema St. John]

No, not in this urgent life, no. But that's the thing is that I've been so. I am really excited about every evolution that I have. You know, it's like, I'm always so. I, like, I anticipate it with a lot of joy. And when I left Netflix as a global CMO to write my book, I thought I was going to, like, take a little sabbatical.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah, no.

[Bozema St. John]

You know, publish my book and then go back. And it was really scary to be like, oh, shit. Like, I don't think I'm like, I don't think I want to go back. You know, and my ego was playing tricks on me. You know, the, like, oh, well. But now I don't have this big company behind me. Who the hell am I? You know? Like, I walk into people like, oh, that's. You know, that's.

[Rachel Zo]

Of course.

[Bozema St. John]

Of course, you know, now I don't have that. So I was fighting that. The identity shift.

[Rachel Zo]

Do I need that title? Do I need that title to exist?

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. In order to validate who I am. And I know that, you know, maybe a lot of people would say, but, oh, my God, but you're so unapologetic. You're so fearless. And I'm like, yeah, but I still got an ego.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

So I still feel the pain of, like, identity shift when something in your life goes away and therefore, you're no longer this person that you told the whole world you were. I mean, like, yeah, there were days when I literally sat in my bed and I was like, I don't want to go outside. I don't want to go to the party, because you were going to ask me, what are you doing now? And I'm like, oh, my God, are you kidding me?

[Rachel Zo]

You know, it's the worst question, by the way.

[Bozema St. John]

Oh, I hate that question.

[Rachel Zo]

I literally see it at every event I go to. There's someone asking someone, so, what are you working on? What are you doing now? And it's that. And behind it is that worry you good?

[Bozema St. John]

Yes. Yeah, exactly like, bitch, I'm good.

[Rachel Zo]

I've been working for 30 fucking years.

[Bozema St. John]

Exactly. Exactly what? I'm fine. You know, I started to answer, like, all the, you know, crazy things. Like I would say stuff like, oh, I'm working on a. On a space flight to Mars. And people would be like, you are? And I'm like, yes, bitch, I am in this town.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah. They're gonna go, really?

[Bozema St. John]

Yeah, exactly like, oh, I have an idea for you. No, you don't. Sit down. After taking the time from my book, I, you know, just sat back and. Really, for the. I think for the first time in my life, for the first time in my career anyway, I was like, what do I actually want to do now? You know, not. Not in necessarily like the linear, climbing the ladder, but it's like, what do I actually want to do?

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

And I had so many thoughts and so many ideas, and then opportunities popped up for me, you know, whether it was like just, you know, speaking engagements that I started doing and being able to communicate to other people how I do this and how I did it and, you know, the motivation of it all. And then I decided that, you know what? I think I definitely want to work for myself, you know, I want to create my own company. I want to create my own business. Like, I've put in so many years working for other people and building their companies. It's about time, you know, that I did something for myself.

[Rachel Zo]

Yep.

[Bozema St. John]

And so I started exploring that and then I got the. To talk to the producers of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

[Rachel Zo]

Yes.

[Bozema St. John]

And I was like, bitch, watch out, here I come.

[Matt]

You know.

[Bozema St. John]

And it's. It's just such a fascinating life because.

[Rachel Zo]

Like, you don't know what's coming around.

[Bozema St. John]

No, you never know. But it's like, why not take the opportunities, like, why not jump into these, you know, sometimes off the wall wacky ideas, like, you know, try it. You know, who said I can't? I could do anything I want.

[Rachel Zo]

And you could also hold your own in that room, you know, you better believe it.

[Bozema St. John]

You know what I mean? So I'm like, hey, look, this is a new opportunity, a new place for me, a new time in life. I feel like I'm like a third act.

[Rachel Zo]

Yeah.

[Bozema St. John]

And. Or 10. Or 10. Exactly. And I. But I'm. I'm very excited. I mean, I don't know that I can explain anymore that it's like, I am so excited about this time in life, you know?

[Rachel Zo]

Well, I think you take it that way. I think this is sort of, as you said, like, new chapter in the book. And I feel like. I don't know. I mean, I think you come up in corporate. There's an identity with that. It was at this, you know, really major dinner over the summer with a ton of badass leaders and CEOs and a very dear friend of mine for a really long time. She's built countless companies, and now she just kind of starts them and, like, you know, and she moves on. And then she goes, you know, yeah, for the first time, I don't have a CEO title in front of my name. And I literally. But it was. It was by choice, but I said, and how is that? She's like, some days it's creepy and awful and I don't know who I am. And some days there is a relief and an excitement because I've never been free from it, you know? And so I. And she's so successful. I mean, she's. I mean, in every way. And happy. So I'm like, I think you need to get there, you know, to the. I'm happy like this, and you're not a title. And I think that's probably what you were experiencing. And I think, as women, those titles can mean way more than they should, because over time, we were never, you know, years ago, we weren't given those titles ever. Hardly ever. And now men want to give us those titles so that they can, like, check boxes sometimes. Right? So I think. Sorry. And I really like men. I don't mean to bash men, but it's fact. And I think for you, you've had your titles, You've done it.

[Bozema St. John]

Yes.

[Rachel Zo]

You've taken the buttered role. You've done all the things. And I think, like, this next chapter is very exciting. So I'm excited to see where it takes you. I don't worry about you for one second, ever. Well, I'm so happy for you. I'm really excited about all you're doing, and I can't wait to watch you keep going up. And I'm gonna start living a more urgent life, effective immediately.

[Bozema St. John]

Effective immediately. Today's the day.

[Rachel Zo]

Today is the day, babe. That's the name of your next something. Today is the day. I'm here, I'm calling it, I'm writing it. And today is the day. Because people need to repurpose that.

[Bozema St. John]

Amen.

[Rachel Zo]

I am.

[Bozema St. John]

Okay.

[Rachel Zo]

Okay.

[Bozema St. John]

It's the day. Let's do it.

[Rachel Zo]

Thank you so much to Bose for coming on the podcast today. She is so beyond. I literally could have talked to her for hours. I can't. I cannot believe the life she's lived. I cannot believe the grief she's lived through. And smiling bigger than I've probably seen anyone on my pod. I am taking from that. I am definitely taking from that. And I think to write a book called the Urgent Life and How to Live It I think is something that we should all take along with her journey of, you know, going from literally being hungry to taking a buttered roll from a nice kind neighbor, to getting the dream job from Spike Lee because she had the courage to actually, you know, ask to read a script. I mean, it's really an unbelievable story. I want to thank you so much for listening to Climbing in Heels. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the Iheart app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You don't miss a single episode this season and be sure to follow me on Instagram at Rachel Zo and the show on Climbing in Heels Pod for the latest episodes and updates. I will talk to you soon.

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[Rachel Zo]

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[Matt]

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