← Clockwise
Clockwise
645: A Fan of the Fan
00:29:50
The imminent Apple products we're most interested in, our weather tech suggestions, how we remember things, and our cities' transit payment options.
Loading summary
Transcript71 lines
- [00:02]
A
It's time for episode 645 of the Clockwise podcast from Relay, recorded Wednesday, February 25, 2026. Clockwise four people, four tech topics, 30 minutes. Welcome back to Clockwise the tech podcast where time is the spice of life. My name is Dan Morton and I am joined. Come on, it was written right there. I'm joined as always across the Internet by my good friend, my pal, the one and only Micah Sargent. How are you doing today, Micah?
- [00:42]
B
I'm doing well. I thought it was great, you know, it was a good joke but the groans would suggest otherwise.
- [00:49]
A
I, you know, I knew I regretted letting the audience laugh track in here because you live by the laugh track and you die by the laugh track. This is of course the show where we discuss vortech topics with two fantastic guests. To my left this week it is CEO/Lackey at Rogue Amoeba, Paul Cavazos. Welcome back, Paul.
- [01:06]
C
Thank you.
- [01:07]
B
To my left it is someone covering tech and transport at Mobile Tech Journal, It's Jeremy Burge. Welcome back to the show, Jeremy.
- [01:15]
A
Hey Micah.
- [01:16]
D
The only place I get welcomed like nicely formally this sort of thing is on podcasts. So that's why I'm here, just for a little self esteem boost.
- [01:23]
B
I like it.
- [01:24]
A
All right, let me kick things off this week. Several Apple products are reportedly imminent, coming perhaps as early as next week, perhaps even a cavalcade, some might say of products are rolling out. I'm curious to know of the various things that have been rumored, are any of them of specific interest to you? Whether it's something you're looking to buy or something that you're just intrigued to see Apple do. Paul, why don't you kick it off?
- [01:47]
C
I need a new Apple TV because the old Apple TVs don't get the Snoopy screensaver and that is bogus, man. So I've got one TV that's got a Snoopy screensaver and it's awesome. And I've got one TV that does not have a Snoopy screensaver and it's lame. So I'm looking for a new Apple tv. That's what I'm looking forward to. But I should also say I'm happy to see the, well, hopefully see the continued constant updates to the Mac lineup which for several years now has been just updated regularly and that's great. We had a real fallow period where it was not updated regularly and that was very bad. So I'm not in the market for a particular Mac right now, but I'll be very happy to just see continued updates to the Mac.
- [02:32]
B
I am actually looking forward to seeing what exactly the new Apple Studio Display is going to look like. Believe it or not, I have the first one and I think that the reason I like it so much is I didn't have to pay for it because.
- [02:53]
C
Go on.
- [02:54]
B
They're a little expensive and so my work bought it for me.
- [02:58]
A
I don't know if that's going to be a feature of the second one, Micah.
- [03:00]
B
I know because here's the thing. I like having the all in one minus the webcam, which is garbage and will always be garbage. But I like having the all in One in terms of the speakers and the ports on the back and the quality that you can typically get from Apple's choices on display. Because of course it's usually not something that the company's making itself, but that and what we are rumored to hear, which is better display HDR support is just interesting. So I'm waiting to see what Apple does with the Apple Studio Display 22 that makes it worth getting an Apple Studio Display 2. And if that's something then that I could be convinced and coerced into getting. So yeah, that's what's got me interested. Jeremy, what about you?
- [03:56]
D
Well, I'm over here still rocking my M1 MacBook Pro M1 iPad and I gather that sort of we're Talking Baby New MacBook Pros this year and these are rock solid. I mean I've not really thought about updating or replacing these, but one of my, I would say great luxuries in life other than owning a boat is that everything I own is on my laptop. I've got a four terabyte drive, no network attached storage, no external drives, just all there backed up to backblaze. I don't know, this could be insane. I have not seen the pricing. Are they already at 8 terabytes? I'd be waiting for the new one anyway, but an 8 terabyte MacBook Pro would be incredible and save me having to make difficult decisions about what to keep and not what not to keep. So that's sort of, that's on my agenda. But it's not about the M5, it's just about getting a bigger hard drive for all my boat and train videos.
- [04:46]
A
These are all good answers. The one that I think I'm most interested in from a overall strategy point of view is this rumored low cost MacBook. I'll put low cost in scare quotes there because who knows how much it will actually cost, but it will probably be the cheapest laptop Apple has made in a long time certainly the cheapest new laptop that they have rolled out. I think that's an interesting strategy for them. I'm also intrigued because it'll be the first Apple laptop to come in real colors potentially we'll see for many a year since those ibooks way back when. So I feel like there's an interesting strategy change there for Apple because Apple has tended to try and say, well, we're not competing by making the cheapest computers, we're competing by buying, you know, making nice computers and we price them where we price them. And so that's yielded a introductory level price that's always been pretty much, you know, just sub $1,000 sometimes, you know, 900 bucks. And then of course you've had some weird one offs like that old Mac M1, MacBook Air that stuck around at Walmart I believe may still be there for a super low price. But it clearly feels like this is intended to capture that section of the market and it's intended to do it with slightly different style. I'm curious to know what the trade offs will be. I mean the word is that we're powered by an iPhone, a level chip. I mean those things are no slouch certainly even compared to some of the M level chips. But probably there will be other trade offs as well. I'm curious because I'm not sure I will buy one. But certainly there is some appeal in the idea of a low cost colorful laptop for me. So I'm kind of interested to see what the story is behind that and what the trade offs that we'll be making. But thank you all for your thoughts on that topic. Let's go to our second topic which comes from Paul.
- [06:28]
C
I have been shoveling a lot of snow recently and I'm pretty sick of it, but for various reasons not worth getting into. I can't use a snowblower, but it got me thinking about technology and the weather. So I'm curious what technology you have that helps you deal with the weather.
- [06:44]
B
I suppose that fun gear like leaf blowers and lawnmowers, that's technology, it's just a different kind of technology. So yeah, that's, that's the tech that I use. I, when we moved here I specifically said I'm finally entering my sort of like suburban dad era where I open up the garage and inside hanging on the wall, beautifully organized are my different tools that I use. And so I've got a leaf blower and you know, different attachments based on what I'M doing. I have actually used. Now I think about it, I have used it for snow because a leaf blower can come in handy if you've a little area of snow and you don't want to take the time to shovel all of it. So, yeah, I don't have anything outside.
- [07:40]
C
I think that counts. I mean, I think we're taking for granted that, you know, it doesn't need to be autonomous or anything. Like this is all still technology.
- [07:47]
B
Beautiful. Well, then in that case, I have answered your question and we can move on to Jeremy.
- [07:53]
D
No snow blowing for me. Air conditioning, that's a big win. When I got a house with air conditioning. This is the first house I've ever been in that has air conditioning. I think there must be a few brands, but the sensibo little plugs you can plug in and remotely control your aircon is top tier. You don't want to arrive home and then blast the air con. You want to have that on before you get in the door. And I don't know if you've all seen these. I think they were popular for a year or two. I saw them everywhere. These neck fans, where you put them around your neck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They look. They sound ridiculous. And I wasn't a fan, but then I got one and then you are
- [08:31]
A
a fan and you have a fan.
- [08:33]
D
I'm a fan of the fan around my neck and boy, do I feel smug when I'm on a train or somewhere without air conditioning and it's just blowing a tiny little bit of air on my sweaty neck. And that's the only way it works. You need a sweaty neck if your neck isn't sweaty.
- [08:48]
A
Not doing anything.
- [08:49]
D
So, yeah, these are. These are good. So I recommend these.
- [08:53]
A
Yeah, these are interesting solutions. All. I have some stuff in the house. So we have an ecobee thermostat and it has. We have a bunch of those little remote sensors. It come. You can. You can buy and attach to it. So it basically can get the readings from different rooms in the house and can try to sort of optimize for when people are around in certain rooms, you know, night versus daytime, etc. Telling whether rooms are occupied, etc. Uh, that works pretty well. It's hooked up to a heat pump. We have a whole house heat pump here. This is tricky where I live and where Paul lives because many heat pumps don't perform well at lower temperatures. So if it gets really cold, my house unfortunately falls back to a gas furnace. That is there. Um, I also have solar panels on my house that I had installed last year. Those work pretty well except when they're covered with snow. Doesn't do much for you. And then you get a really fun avalanche when it gets warm enough that all the snow slides off of them. Crushes your trees. But yeah, that's, that's pretty good. I do have a net atmo weather station that I've had for several years. I am considering just retiring it because I find I don't use it that much. Like it's still, you know, I have like a little, there's a little module that's out on like our shed in our yard and then there's, you know, an indoor one. And I find A, their connectivity has problems at times and B, most of the, you know, general weather apps are good enough where I am that the, the having my own weather station doesn't really offer any additional information for me. But beyond that, like I too am out there shoveling. I don't have a snowboard. Fortunately, I have a neighbor across the street who took pity on me yesterday and snow blowed. Snow blowed out our driveway entrance, which was amazing because that was. Otherwise I was going to be out there for an hour and possibly either throw out my back or have a heart attack. So I decided just to leave it there. And fortunately he came along and helped me out. So, you know, that's my best advice is WeatherTech. Neighbors with WeatherTech. Paul, why don't you wrap us up for me?
- [10:48]
C
The high tech gear that I have realized that I have is a fabric called merino wool which is just straight off a sheep. But it is straight off. It's straight off the sheep. Yeah, but no, it's. I had, I run and I run in the winter and it's stinks and it's terrible and it's just not fun. But I do it probably because I hate myself. I don't know. But the gear that I had was I had like high tech performance gear and it was not great and it would need to get washed every single time. And I spent a little bit of money, I got some really nice merino wool stuff and it keeps me warm and it doesn't stink, doesn't have an odor, and it does not need to be washed nearly as much. So that is, it doesn't sound high tech, but I view it as much more high tech than the, you know, Nike performance, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, that's, that's the one that is helping me deal with the winter right now.
- [11:47]
A
All right, that is two topics down, two topics left to go. Which of course means it's halftime. Here at clockwise. And this week's episode is brought to you by Insta360. Now you might already know Insta360 for their action and 360 cameras. While they've taken all that imaging expertise and brought it to the webcam world with their newest conferencing products, the new Insta360 wave and the Link 2 Pro, which is their flagship 4K AI webcam. Insta360 was nice enough to send us some test units of these. I've been using them, including the webcam I've used for a number of very lengthy podcasts that I've been on that have a video component. It's great. A 4K like image is really sharp. It does a nice little like bokeh blur for the background. It's very, it's very nice. It's just a great looking image. It's got a lot of other controls that I haven't spent as much time with, but the ability to do like, you know, tracking your, your head in frame, the ability to like use gestures to control some of the capabilities of the camera, all of that is really cool. Advanced. And then the, the wave is like a, you know, speakerphone product sort of, but to an advanced level. It's got this bizarre like kind of great motor where it lifts up and there's a little touch screen underneath. And it can capture audio in all sorts of different ways from including like omni microphones that capture like everybody in a room or cardio microphones that can capture just like a certain area if you're just targeting like people sitting in front of the microphone. The cool thing is that the link 2 can actually magnetically like just snap onto the top of the wave to provide this all in one solution. So if you got a bunch of people sitting around like a conference room, it can like turn around and track whoever's talking. I've used it for a couple of things where my, my wife and I have like, like zooms that we do in our living room. And like I can use like a phone for like continuity camera, but I have to give up my phone and then I always am annoyed that I don't have my phone on me. And so having a device that just, it does this, I can just hook it up to my MacBook and it can handle all of this. It's pretty great. So Link 2 Pro has a large one over 1.3 inch sensor with dual native ISO and HDR which basically means you get crisp, detailed 4K video whether you're in a dim home office or sitting in front of a bright window. And it even creates that natural DSLR style bokeh so you can stand out from your background without it looking artificial. Then there's the audio, and this is where it really shines. It is a dual microphone system, both omnidirectional and directional. With AI noise cancellation and beamforming, you can switch between four different pickup modes. So if you're in a noisy environment, Focus mode isolates your voice if you're leading a meeting, Wide mode clearly captures everyone in the room. It's kind of like having a studio mic built right into your webcam. And with the built in Insight AI, it can transcribe, summarize, and even visualize your meetings in real time. You get a clean transcript and key takeaways instantly. You can sync everything to tools like Notion with just one click. So instead of scrambling to take notes, you can actually focus on the conversation and let the AI handle the rest of the It's a serious upgrade for creators, streamers and professionals who want to level up their setup without adding a bunch of extra gear. If you're looking to elevate your video, audio and productivity all at once, check out the Insta360 Wave and Linqtube Pro at insta360.com that's insta360.com or just click the link in the show notes. Our thanks to Insta360 for their support of this show and all of relay. All right, halftime is over. Micah Sargent, what do you got for us?
- [14:54]
B
I would just love to know what apps, services or techniques do you use to remember things? Jeremy, we'll start with you.
- [15:02]
D
I feel like my day to day process is the Snell method of just put everything in the calendar and that doesn't scale. Now that I have more things on than fit in the calendar, it doesn't mean that I've found something better. Mind you, I just struggle with updating a calendar poorly and kind of putting things on future days to say yeah, maybe I'll do that task on this day or maybe I should remember this on that day. And yeah, it's a mess. The Notes app I'm a big fan, big fan of the Notes app. You know, put everything in there. Just I've given up any structure there. You just new note for everything. Search is pretty good. It's the only place search I think is decent on iOS is the notes app. So bung Everything in a new note. It's quick to open and the last place is the Contacts note field. But I don't know whether any of you use this field for the contacts. You know, if I'm like, ah, next time I see this person, I should remember to ask this or something about it. But I feel like I've had this bug for the past year, maybe where you can't see more than one or two lines of editing your contact note field on iOS so you kind of. I'm actually typing in the dark. I'm typing on the keyboard and it's below the fold of the keyboard and I just have these ridiculous contact notes because I just, you know, when you mash it. Yeah. Anyway, so classic Notes Calendar app and Contacts field in a big old scramble. And as a result I don't remember a lot.
- [16:27]
A
I tend to, if I start feeling like there's more things I need to remember that I'm capable of holding in my head at one time. I usually use the Reminders app and to just like make myself a little to do list or just a list of things I need to check off. That tends to be sort of my default for anything that's sort of tactical for. I do use notes a lot for things that I'm writing on specific projects. Like if I'm working on a book or something and I think of something that I want to use there or I have, you know, links to stories that I've like, oh, this would be a cool thing to work in. I have a note for something that I'm working on. I use notes a lot. I have more than a thousand notes in my app notes because I never delete them either. I do have a bad history of leaving, you know, like windows with tabs open in Safari if there's things that I want to get back to. And again, I find that's just a place where things go to die because I totally forget to check them again on my Mac. It's much more efficient to do that because I get more annoyed by just having extra windows open on my Map Mac. But like safari tabs on iOS that might as well be a graveyard. So, yeah, I don't really have a great strategy. I would say. I would say have a kind of a hodgepodge of tactical approach approaches to this. I'm not sure that it's anything worth emulating though. Paul, what about you?
- [17:34]
C
So, yeah, I. I use reminders a ton. I actually have. This is. This is going to sound ridiculous, but I have a text document that contains all the reminders that are in reminders because I'm terrified of losing those reminders. So it's things like I could look at this document and I could tell you that my passport is going to need to be renewed in about six years. Or like nice, like, you know, pay taxes is pretty obvious. But like various things that might only need to get paid once a year, they go in there. So I have all these reminders, but then I have a ridiculous backup of that in a text file that if I ever really needed to, I could recreate all these things. But the surprising answer, I think is photos. Micah, the question that you posed in the spreadsheet before the show was what do you use to remember things? And I often find that I, you know, it's a year later and I say, oh, what was I? We were in Portland, Maine. What were we doing that day? And I can look at photos and see, oh, we went to that lighthouse or we had dinner here or whatever. And so photos. Being able to search by date location search is not nearly as good as it should be, but it's possible at least. But yeah, searching through my photos library is often a way that I recover some piece of information that I'm looking for.
- [18:56]
B
So the main way that I remember to do things, it's sort of three methods. First and foremost is the calendar method. I live and die by my calendar. The calendar has all of my events in it. It sometimes has non events in it as well. I don't quite have the military schedule of every single thing is marked and ready to go. But if I didn't have my shows and stuff on my calendar, who knows if I'd be there? Outside of that, I also use the DO app due. I've talked about it plenty on this show and other shows, but it is basically just a nag nag, nag version of reminders. And so anything that I absolutely have to do in a day that is not an event goes into do and that gives me the ability to mark it off when I've done it. And if I haven't done it then in 5 minutes or 15 minutes or 30 minutes or an hour, it will bug me again and hey, do this thing. And then the only time that I use reminders and I can't wait for DO to finally add this feature so I can just use do for it is for location based reminders. And that is that when I'm in my car I will hit the little Siri button on my steering wheel and say, remind me when I Get home to do blank. And it's usually just something that's popped up in my head while I'm driving that I need to do when I get home. So that's the one time that I use reminders and not do. Anyway, let's move along to Jeremy for our next topic.
- [20:33]
D
This is somewhat of a leading self serving question, but I am also interested just a small bit, but I am interested. Does your city where you live support contactless payments to tap and ride on your public transport? And does it support Express mode where you can tap without doing face id and if not, maybe you've used it while traveling? Any thoughts? Tell me about it.
- [20:55]
A
Haha, it's me. And that means I get to snake it from Paul because we're gonna have the same answer.
- [20:59]
C
I'm totally just gonna steal the whole answer. Go ahead, go ahead.
- [21:02]
A
Yeah, Boston does have tap and go now, which is great. It works across all of our transit lines. I think pretty much all the rail and buses, at least that rolled out only in the last couple years. But I find it amazing because I think, you know, I, I, for many years I had a transit card. In fact I think I kept the same like plastic transit card for the entire time that it existed, which was kind of amazing. It never expired for some reason, so I just kept using it and I finally was able to retire it when they switched to tap and go. And what I love about it is that I have definitely taken trips where I've like, you know, walked to our, you know, nearby subway station, tapped on, taken transit all the way to the airport, flown to a different city, tapped on a civil like a public transit system there and just gotten to where I'm going and that feels so seamless and nice that it's, it's just wonderful to do so I've had a lot of experiences using tap and go in various other cities and the express mode transit which I've set up for a long time and it works pretty great. Sometimes I wish there was a little more a granularity with some of the Express mode things because like sometimes I'm traveling on work and like I wish I could just, you know, I know I can manually go in and set it but I wish I could add like some more like customization to exactly when those things get used or what systems they get triggered on. I don't know. But I will say it's a nice advantage over having. I like, I have an envelope in my desktop desk drawer here that has like transit cards from a bunch of different cities and like having being able to retire, many of those has been great. And now I just get super annoyed when I go to a city that doesn't have it. I think, I think Seattle, where I was last year, I don't think they had it. And I was like, come on Seattle, what do you do in here? Anyway? That's my experience. Paul, what do you got?
- [22:46]
C
So I first used this in London years ago. I don't know when they first got it, but I'm pretty sure I used it in 2019. They may have had it for years before that. And then it came to New York City where I travel a decent amount and it was great. And then it came to Boston, as Dan said, and it's great. So if you live somewhere that has public transit and it has contactless payment, you should be using it. It's way better than, as Dan said, than the specific cards. I love using public transit when I travel and it makes it super easy to do. You just tap your phone. Usually they have express mode set up so you don't even need to pull up your Apple pay. But I have been for maybe 20 years I've traveled and used public transit and for the past five or so I've been really enjoying the fact of not needing to go hunt down a transit card, not needing to figure out how to do anything, just step on tap and go. Jeremy, your question asked about Apple Wallet transit cards, which is the only one I'm aware of is the BART card for San Francisco is basically a card that goes into your Apple Wallet and it's still a transit card.
- [23:51]
A
The Washington Metro has one too.
- [23:54]
C
I'm sure others do.
- [23:54]
A
Yeah, I've used it there.
- [23:56]
C
So I've used the BART card because I had a BART card and I was able to take the physical BART card and get it into my Apple Wallet. And that was kind of magical actually. And I was able to do it all while sitting at a coffee shop instead of needing to go somewhere to do it. But it also felt like a complete relic because why do I need this card at all? So to have a digital representation of the card still felt strange. But Jeremy, you said this was a self serving question. But it got me to your website, which is expresstransit.com and having gone to that website, I learned that if I was using a MasterCard in Boston and many other places, I would get $2.50 back. $2.50 back every month that I spent 10 bucks. So you're saving me some money in the future.
- [24:39]
D
The Envelope of cash is in the mail for you there, Paul.
- [24:43]
C
Making money all over the place but yeah, so this has been a really good advance I think in the past few years on a whole lot of systems and I'm excited to use it basically anywhere I can.
- [24:52]
B
Yeah, I think it's fantastic to lived near San Francisco for quite a bit of time and so every time we would go into San Francisco being able to just without needing to hit the double tap button on my Apple Watch or on my phone, just popping it against the terminal and knowing that it would work was really nice. And then also knowing that if my battery for some reason ran dead on my phone that I would still be able to use the terminal card that I had built in. I'll be honest that I don't know what exactly is available here in Portland but I do know that at the last time I checked it was not as advanced as San Francisco was with all of the fancy express modes and all that kind of stuff built in that makes it really handy. Jeremy, why don't you round us out here?
- [25:46]
D
Yeah, I gather I put out a call for feedback on this website I've been setting up to make it easier to check and I gather Portland and yeah, it's got Apple Pay but not Express Mode unless you set up the transit card. So it's sort of in that in between stage and those transit cards. Really helpful if you live somewhere. You know, Paris has one, LA has one but as a tourist. Yeah, you're all right. It's so much nicer just showing up and tapping your phone, not even having to think about even if it's a cool digital transit card, not having to think about how much money to put on or whether you need a pass for how many days. So yeah, that's why I set up this little website mostly. I also think Express Mode has a branding challenge. Not many public transport systems say publicly on signage when you get to the barrier do you have to do you support Express Mode and you look like an absolute idiot like you show there and you don't do it. Yeah and you go I understand, I know what I'm doing but I thought maybe you supported it. So that was my self serving reason for wanting to put this on the Internet. So you could quickly check and say does the city support Express Mode? On Android they call it make payment without opening wallet or something.
- [26:54]
B
Are you kidding me?
- [26:56]
D
Yeah, it doesn't have a name.
- [26:57]
A
Make payment without opening Wallet. There we go.
- [27:01]
D
So it's hard from a branding point of view. I could See,
- [27:05]
B
it's too early. That was not a good Yoda. Sorry.
- [27:07]
D
No, no, that was good. Tap to pay without opening wallet. So I was close. Yeah. Tap to pay without opening wallet. So I think it could do with a branding boost as well. I don't know, obviously, trademarks and whatever, blah, blah. But it would be cool if there was a little badge that you could see it when you approach the payment system around the. The world and know if Express Mode is supported. But that's not a thing. So, yeah, one day. One day we can do.
- [27:29]
A
All right, that's four topics down. Just enough time for a bonus topic really quickly. I'll remind you, if you'd like to support the show, you can go to clockwise social and pick up all our great merchandise. Hats, T shirts, tote bags, all sorts of fantastic stuff. Clockwise social and. Thank you. All right, bonus topic for you all. The Winter Olympics have just concluded. What's your favorite Winter Olympic event, Paul?
- [27:51]
C
Aha. I get to claim the one that everyone wants. Curling. It's gotta be curling. It's always curling. Every four years, we all get into curling for two weeks and we learn about it, and then we immediately forget it and it's great. And then we forget all about it, and four years later, we do it all again.
- [28:06]
B
Curling, for me, it is anything that's gonna have some jumps and some flips. So snowboard or skis, just show me those tricks. I think it's awesome. Jeremy, what about you?
- [28:20]
D
Can I say, I've gone down the runs in Cortina on my snowboard where the Winter Olympics are. It's a lot harder than it looks.
- [28:26]
A
Fancy schmancy.
- [28:28]
D
I did not look quite as flash as everybody else. I like. I don't know what it's called. It's the one where they go on skis, they go over some boxes and rails, and then they do three jumps at the end. Is that what it's called?
- [28:37]
A
Yeah, it's a bit of.
- [28:38]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
- [28:40]
A
All good answers I'm gonna pick. I really like watching the various bobsled and related events. I especially like it as it gets more and more stripped down to, like, you get to the skeleton. Like, I feel like we're only a little ways off from an event where it's just people going straight down those chutes by themselves with nothing. And I'll watch that. It's like water slides. Like frozen water slides?
- [29:00]
C
Yeah, frozen water slide. I like it.
- [29:02]
A
Yeah. I think that's coming. I think it's lethal, but I think it's coming. All right. Thank you all for that. Hey, if you'd like to get ad free episodes with extra unwound topics every single week, you can become a member of Clockwise. Just go to Relay FM clockwise and sign up for just $7 per month or $70 per. You'll help support the show. We appreciate it. And with that, we have reached the end of this week's episode. All that remains is for us to thank our fantastic guests. Paul Cavastas, thank you so much for being here.
- [29:27]
C
Thanks for having me.
- [29:29]
B
And Jeremy Burge, thank you so much for joining us.
- [29:32]
D
Ah, thanks. I'll go back to bed now.
- [29:35]
A
And Michael will be back next week. But until then, we remind everyone out there listening, watch what you say and
- [29:41]
B
keep watching the clock.
- [29:43]
A
Bye, everybody.
- [29:45]
B
Sam.