651: I Live From Home

Summary

Clockwise Ep. 651: “I Live From Home” (April 8, 2026)

Main Theme

This episode of Clockwise, hosted as always by Dan Moren and Mikah Sargent, welcomes guests Jeff Carlson (writer, photographer, late-nighter) and Kathy Campbell (community manager and podcast host) for a rapid-fire, roundtable discussion of four fresh tech topics in under 30 minutes. The episode’s conversations orbit around personal strategies for handling email overload, navigating the complexities (and pricing) of mobile phone plans, the love/hate realities of noise-canceling headphones, and favorite analog holdouts in a digital world.

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1. Taming the Email Monster

Segment: 01:37 – 07:46

• Dan Moren opens with a question about personal email management: archiving, deleting, folderizing, or other tech tricks?
• Jeff Carlson admits defeat to the flood:

  “I just couldn't keep up with the flood. So basically anything that I’m done with just goes into a big archive and anything else either hangs out in my inbox or stays unread until I… do an occasional scan and purge.” (01:52)

  • He trusts that crucial emails will circle back if truly important, and is ok with a little chaos.
• Mikah Sargent echoes Jeff, trusting heavily in search features:

  “I have a lot of email that just sort of sits there. I've given up is basically the truth of the situation. And I just use search and I'm very happy with that method for myself.” (02:52)

• Kathy Campbell breaks the trend:
  • She manages 22 mailboxes for herself and clients.
  • Processes emails as they arrive—quick reply or archive—and maintains zero unread messages, except for long-term reminders:

    “Everything gets handled somehow.” (04:47)

  • Amused horror at someone sharing a screenshot with over 164,000 unread emails:

    "There should not be a comma in your unread emails." (05:05)

• Dan Moren confesses to inbox bloat (148,000 emails, all read):
  • Struggles with sluggish performance and contemplates mass-archiving.
  • Likes to flag and color-code specific emails.

  “I never really spent a lot of time doing the archive thing before. I think I just, you know, try to delete stuff that I don't need. But I am also a pack rat.” (06:35)

• Key Point: Across the board, the drive is toward minimal friction and “thinking less” about email—automation, leniency, and reliance on search tools win out.
• Memorable Moment: Laughter and gentle horror over astronomical unread counts, and the shared relief at not being alone in imperfect systems.

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2. Picking a Mobile Phone Plan: Value, Perks, or Both?

Segment: 07:59 – 15:07

• Jeff Carlson prompts discussion after switching from legacy AT&T plans to save money amid new surcharges.

  “Do you tend to go with the top tier plan that has more data and perks, or do you look for the most afford option or maybe something in between?” (07:59)

• Mikah Sargent would ditch premium plans as he “lives from home” and relies heavily on Wi-Fi:

  “The cellular aspect of my phone plan... is not necessary.” (08:22)

• Kathy Campbell sticks with an unlimited family plan (Verizon, military discount), but selectively bumps tiers for data/hotspot or travel needs:

  “I just bumped it up and it was $8 a month as opposed to $10 a day... then I just bumped down when the month is over.” (09:21)

• Dan Moren uses a multi-tiered family AT&T plan for both hotspot access and to fit data needs.
  • Jokes about marital drama when suggesting a downgrade:

    “I once suggested this to my wife and she’s like, you want to throttle me? ... That didn’t go over.” (11:58)

  • Finds modern billing and payment easier to split.
• Jeff Carlson outlines the decision-making tangle:
  • Only on AT&T because of iPhone legacy exclusivity.
  • “Retired plans” surcharges forced him to act.
  • Perk loss (bundled HBO Max) adds calculus to switching.

  “Now it’s also factoring in… am I going to get the version with ads? No, no, I’m never going to get the version with ads.” (13:42)

• Conclusions:
  • Phone plans are “a big confusing mess.” Convenience (hotspots, travel, streaming bundles) often trumps minimal saving.
  • Segment closes with humor about corporate plan nomenclature and the recurring need for a spreadsheet.

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3. Noise Canceling Headphones: Love or Loathe?

Segment: 16:28 – 22:31

• Mikah Sargent asks:

  “Do you use noise canceling headphones or earbuds? What's your experience ... does it make you feel dizzy?” (16:28)

• Kathy Campbell loves AirPods Max on planes, but noise canceling makes her “feel nauseous” unless buffered with background ocean/rain sounds:

  “If I have like ocean or rain or something playing consistently... it doesn’t wipe out and give me nausea.” (16:56)

  • Earbuds, however, never work for her.
• Dan Moren is a longtime, happy user (Bose, AirPods Pro 2):
  • Noise canceling sometimes amplifies “thumpy” walking sounds.
  • Can be weird at night due to loss of a good ear seal—generally, though, it’s a “nice benefit.”
• Jeff Carlson, once skeptical, now depends on it, especially for working at home with a chatty spouse:

  “Once I had a taste of real good noise canceling, now I'm like, yes, bring it on almost every time.” (19:35)

  • Notices withdrawal when working in noisy places (like loud Seattle coffee shops).
• Mikah Sargent: Most of the time it’s essential—even finds calm in silence:

  “Sometimes I just pop them in. There's nothing playing. It's just quieter. And I can hear all of my body sounds. And for some people that's frightening and it reminds them of their mortality. But sometimes the thing that makes me feel most calm is being reminded of my mortality.” (21:17)

• Theme: Range from “make it or break it” requirement to physical discomfort; users adapt with inventive hacks.

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4. Analog Holdouts in a Digital World

Segment: 22:35 – 27:32

• Kathy Campbell asks:

  “What is something you do the analog way, even though a perfectly good tech version exists?” (22:35)

• Dan Moren: Defaults to analog activities with his young child even though there are app equivalents:

  “We’ve found ways to hopefully entertain him that don’t require as much technology.” (23:50)

• Jeff Carlson: Coffee is his diehard analog ritual (manual pour-over, bean grinding).

  “For a few minutes every morning I’m not doing anything on devices at all. And it’s actually kind of nice for me.” (24:11)

• Mikah Sargent:
  • Recipes get printed out for reference in the kitchen, despite originating in apps.
  • Crocheting and paint-by-numbers: digital patterns are edited and then printed for physical use.

  “There's something about having it on the screen that it just makes me feel like I'm forgetting things. Whereas when it's on a piece of paper, I feel like I can follow along.” (25:09)

• Kathy Campbell:
  • Journaling, planning, and brain dumps all handwritten.
  • Cross-stitch patterns are printed so they can be marked as completed.

  “I don't want to. I want just… just this little container that has everything that I need.” (26:47)

• Consensus: Whether for ritual, memory, or tactile satisfaction, analog persists even in the most tech-forward lives.

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Bonus Topic: Favorite Architectural Style

Segment: 27:39 – 28:47

• Jeff Carlson: Drawn to modern, angular styles (not reflected in his own home).
• Mikah Sargent: Agrees—loves modern and angular, eye-catching on any block.
• Kathy Campbell: Art Nouveau, for intriguing, intricate, and soft details.
• Dan Moren: Sucker for Art Deco—"the angular shapes and flourishes."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I have 22 active email boxes... and I do what every productivity guru says not to do.” – Kathy Campbell (03:47)
• "I once suggested this to my wife and she’s like, you want to throttle me? ... That didn’t go over." – Dan Moren (11:58)
• “Sometimes the thing that makes me feel most calm is being reminded of my mortality.” – Mikah Sargent (21:17)
• Strong laughter at seeing a screenshot of an inbox with a comma in the unread email count (05:05–05:36)
• “For a few minutes every morning I’m not doing anything on devices at all. And it’s actually kind of nice for me.” – Jeff Carlson (24:11)
• “I want just… just this little container that has everything that I need.” – Kathy Campbell (26:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start Time | End Time | |------------------------------|------------|----------| | Email Management | 01:37 | 07:46 | | Cell Phone Plans | 07:59 | 15:07 | | Noise Canceling Headphones | 16:28 | 22:31 | | Analog vs. Tech | 22:35 | 27:32 | | Bonus: Architecture | 27:39 | 28:47 |

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Clockwise’s Signature Takeaway

Whatever the device, price point, or productivity hack, Clockwise’s panel celebrates flexibility, forgiveness, and a sense of humor—whether in managing digital chaos, balancing value vs. perks, savoring silence, or just enjoying a pen and paper moment in an online world.

Transcript

[A]

You.

[B]

It's Time for episode 651 of the Clockwise podcast from Relay, recorded Wednesday, April 8, 2026. Clockwise, four people, four tech topics, 30 minutes. Welcome back to Clockwise, the tech podcast

[C]

that brings May showers.

[B]

My name is Dan Moran and I am joined as always across the Internet by my good friend, my pal, the one, the only, Micah Sargent. How you doing today, Micah?

[A]

Just picking flowers here, Dan. And they're all pretty, they're all gorgeous. Yeah, it's unfortunate because they all bring, they all bring showers.

[B]

Yeah, I guess it should have been Mayflowers. I, you know what, I mixed my metaphors. Everything's fine. We know what we're doing here. Look, we've done 650, 50 of these, okay?

[C]

Cut us some slack.

[B]

Well, this is of course the technology

[C]

podcast where we invite on two fantastic

[B]

guests to discuss four tech topics in just 30 minutes. To my left this week it is writer, photographer, late nighter Jeff Carlson. Welcome back, Jeff.

[D]

Hey, thanks for having me back on.

[A]

And to my left, business unicorn Relay fm. Switch on community manager and host of Conduit on this here podcast network, it's Kathy Campbell. Hello, Kathy.

[E]

Hi, Mic.

[B]

All right, we just got 30 minutes, four topics. Let's get moving. I want to know, how do you

[C]

keep your email under control? Are you an abundant archiver, A dastardly

[B]

deleter, a fiendish folder filer? Do you have some other tricky technology techniques to share with us, Jeff, how

[C]

do you tame your email?

[D]

I like how you put together this idea of email and under control. I don't understand it, but it's really nice and aspirational. After many, many years, early years of like trying to file things in different folders and be organized, I just couldn't keep up with the flood. So basically anything that I'm done with just goes into a big archive and anything else either hangs out in my inbox or stays unread until I, you know, do an occasional scan and purge. So my techniques are not ideal, but I've kind of given myself grace to say, you know what, A lot of this stuff is just crap I'm not going to deal with and if it's that important, someone will reach out again. It's very, it's very like self centered but it kind of works.

[A]

Yeah, I shouldn't, but I do trust in my different email programs search tool. I am very similar to Jeff in that I will. I used to do a lot more and now I just hit the archive button when I'm done with the message and that's Good. And I'm happy with that. I will say my scan and remove process happens far less, with far less frequency perhaps than it used to. And so I do have a lot of email that just sort of sits there. I've given up is basically the truth of the situation. And I just use search and I'm very happy with that method for myself. But I am curious if Kathy will break the trend here or join us in this world of all archive stuff.

[E]

Well, okay, so in my email app of choice, which is Mail app, I have 22 active email boxes because I run emails for some of my clients and things. And I do what every productivity guru says not to do, which is if an email comes in, I deal with it right then. Or if it like I look at it and then if it's going to take some more time, I will do it later. But if it's most of the time it's going to be a quick reply or a quick like Google with the link and stuff. And then after I send the email, I arc archive it because I don't need to do anything with it. I've already done it. This works really, really well for me. So I have no unread emails in my email boxes and everything gets handled somehow.

[C]

Wow.

[E]

So I do have like a dozen or so email emails that are still in my inbox for long term projects to work on that like, hey, this is just a light reminder, you know, in, you know, three months I need

[F]

to look into doing this, but it's nothing that needs to actively be done. And so it just kind of lives there. So that's. I don't know what kind of emailer that is other than, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. Steve just posted a photo of his email in the chat in the discord and that makes me cry. There should not be a comma in your unread emails.

[A]

I'm sorry, 164,000.

[E]

Wow, that's too many emails.

[B]

Oh, here in here.

[C]

I thought I was going to be the difficult one.

[B]

Well, okay, so I asked this question

[C]

mainly because I decided a week ago or so that I should start to deal with my email problem, which is that my Inbox had about 148,000 emails in it. They were read.

[B]

I don't leave emails on read.

[C]

I just leave everything in my inbox.

[B]

But the problem I was starting to feel was like, man, every time I

[C]

want to like search mail or need to load mail on a new device or it wants to redownload my entire inbox, it was just being like.

[B]

And so I was like, well, maybe I can move a bunch of that

[C]

stuff in bulk to archive. And I set out to find a system to do that, which maybe Micah and I will talk a little bit later in the our unwound segment about.

[B]

I don't know if this really solves

[C]

my problem by just shuffling the stuff into the archive because it's still all there. And the honest truth is there's probably a ton of stuff in there that's just stuff that can get deleted.

[B]

But I never really spent a lot

[C]

of time doing the archive thing before. I think I just, you know, I try to delete stuff that I don't need. But I am also a pack rat. And email tends to be pretty cheap because it's just small little bits of storage. And I like having a giant searchable index that would help if mail app search was better. But, you know, it is what it is.

[B]

So I have a couple folders that I use for very specific things. Generally my tactic is like, if there's

[C]

something I need to refer back to, it gets flagged. And I use different colors for different, like, topics or, like, areas of my life.

[B]

You know, personal stuff versus writing stuff

[C]

versus stuff for clockwise or stuff for one of my other podcasts. And that way I can quickly filter through and find just the stuff that's relevant to whatever task I need it for.

[B]

Because I. I very much believe in

[C]

these sort of like, you shouldn't have to spend too much time thinking about it.

[B]

And it's definitely one of those places

[C]

I find myself thinking. I'm surprised that Apple has not spent more time trying to improve that system. They kind of did that email categorization thing last year and it wasn't great. I feel like maybe there's better ways

[B]

to help people because we all still

[C]

have to deal with email.

[B]

But yeah, if anything, I've learned from

[C]

all of us, it's that the less thinking you have to do about it, the better. So thank you for your thoughts on that.

[B]

Let's move to our second topic, which comes from Jeff.

[D]

So I just recently changed my family's mobile phone plans to save some money. And because we're on AT&T, they're starting to apply a new fee to legacy plans. And so my question is, for your wireless, for your cell phones, do you tend to go with the top tier plan that has more data and perks, or do you look for the most afford option or maybe something in between?

[A]

You know, I think if I changed my plan at this point, I would not go with a top tier plan. I work from home and I live from home and I, I do a lot of my sort of phone browsing or just frankly any browsing at home where I have access to WI fi. And that means that the cellular aspect of my phone plan, the, you know, unlimited data, etc. Etc. Is not necessary. And so I think that if I had to change plans right now, I would probably go for one that was more affordable as opposed to right now with all of the data and all of the perks that this plan has. Yeah, I think given the opportunity to change it at this point, I would. We'll try to save some money. Kathy, what about you?

[E]

So I am on a massive family plan with my parents, my brother and his wife, and then our family. And with the military discount that they get, it's actually cheaper to keep it at an unlimited data option. And we're on. And the nice part is, is if you're in the check unlimited option. Oh, we're on Verizon, by the way. There are again, extra tiers within the unlimited. It's very confusing. It's very weird. There's a couple of us that are on just like the basic unlimited, but then some of us have the ability for a hotspot. I have that, but when I travel internationally, I bump up one more because then I get access to free international data. So like when I was in Prague for a week, I just bumped it up and it was $8 a month as opposed to $10 a day. And I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do that. And then I just bumped down when the month is over. So they do make it really easy and I don't think think I would do anything different.

[C]

I like that there's different levels of unlimited. I love that. They all do.

[B]

I'm on the limited unlimited, but I'm on the unlimited unlimited. First of all, Jeff, thanks.

[C]

Because I read the article that you linked to in the show Notes when I saw this and was like, wait, I'm on at&t.

[B]

And I realized I'm probably gonna have

[C]

to change our phone plans because of the weird shenanigans they're doing.

[B]

I'm on a family plan with my

[C]

parents and my wife and I.

[B]

We use like different levels of plans per, like individually.

[C]

Like my wife and I have the, like, slightly higher ones because we think we both like having the option for hotspot data. I use the hotspot stuff on my

[B]

iPhone pretty, pretty frequently and that's a nice benefit.

[A]

To have.

[B]

And so we tend to be on the higher, though not the highest plan,

[C]

I think sort of the mid range.

[B]

And then my parents, who don't really

[C]

use much data, are on the lowest of the plans because they are generally totally fine. They don't spend a lot of time traveling or leaving the house. The only exception being my mom also has an iPad with a cellular plan. So that's on our. Our plan as well.

[B]

And I think that's all generally pretty fine. I've considered dropping myself down, even to the lower level.

[C]

I once. I once suggested this to my wife

[B]

and she's like, you want to throttle me?

[C]

Let's be clear.

[B]

Let's be clear. Basically, that's not what I'm saying. I just think we could save some money. And I don't think you. No.

[C]

Okay. That didn't go over.

[E]

Sounds like you asked for divorce.

[B]

That's what that was. It does.

[C]

My lawyers worked everything out. It's great.

[B]

Anyway. Yeah, so. So we. I will say one of the nice

[C]

things that AT T has made easier in recent years is my. My mom can pay for, like, her and my dad's part of the bill and I can pay for my.

[B]

In my part of the bill rather

[C]

than in the past when it's like I would just pay for everything. And every once in a while, when she remembered, my mom would write me a check, which was less convenient. Yeah. Anyway, Jeff, why don't you wrap us up here?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So it's. It's kind of all of this. What's. What I like about at&t and I should probably mention the reason I'm on AT and T mostly is because when you got the original iPhone, the only option was singular, which then turned into at&t. And even though at CNET I cover all this stuff, I have to admit I've not really explored other carriers because it's so much work and so much detail. But in this case, I finally made the move because they are going to start charging either $5 a line or $20 for an account. If you have old, old plans, they called retired plans. And so that just kind of prompted me to. To finally do something about this. One unexpected thing, though, is because I had like, the unlimited elite. I don't know. All the names are so ridiculous. Literally, there's one economy. I know, I know. There was. There was one thing that I was reporting on. They had an unlimited ultimate plan and also an ultimate unlimited plan. It was just insane. Anyway, sorry, I'm getting off track. One of the things that that I ran into when I was doing this and believe me, like, I have a spreadsheet and I've got like the whole thing was that on my old plan it bundled HBO Max and now I had to give that up because of moving to the new plants that don't have that bundle. So now it's also factoring in. Okay, well, now if I still want to keep HBO Max, am I going to move up to the higher bundle for Disney and am I going to get the version with ads? No, no, I'm never going to get the version with ads. But you know, it's like it's all that kind of stuff. So to answer my own question, I tend to stick to the top one because of the hotspot and the high speed and because I test a lot of this stuff. But the rest of my family is now just on the lower one because they're mostly getting stuff through through WI Fi. But yeah, it's a big confusing mess and it's fun. I mean, that's what I meant. I mean, it's fun.

[C]

Is it?

[B]

All right, that's your topics down, two topics left to go, which of course means it's halftime. Here at clockwise, this week's episode is brought to you by Steam Clock. Look, a lot of mobile apps, they're mediocre. Not broken, just okay. But you notice the difference the moment you use something good. SteamClock software builds mobile apps for companies that care about taste. They're a design and development studio based in Vancouver, Canada, and They've been shipping iOS and Android apps for over 15 years. Their clients are growing tech companies that care about mobile but don't have the in house team to build something great. Steamclock works with companies to level up their app so they can go from it's holding us back to it's pulling its weight. Some of their clients discovered the hard

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

Our thanks to Steam for their support

[C]

of this show and all of Relay.

[B]

All right, halftime is over. Micah, back over to you.

[A]

I was just curious, do you use noise canceling headphones or earbuds? What's your experience with noise cancellation? You know, I've heard some people say that it makes them feel dizzy. Perhaps for you it doesn't. Can you. Is it sort of a take it or leave it thing? Doesn't really impact you, or do you love it? Is it a make it or break it for you? Whenever it comes to getting a new pair of headphones? Kathy, we'll start with you.

[E]

When I use noise canceling, it makes me feel nauseous, which is fun, just not actually. But I have learned a workaround if I turn on the background sounds. So the option in the app or in the iPhone for you, if you have. I have the little ear in the control center and you click on it and you can choose background sounds. If I have like ocean or rain or something playing consistently, then like when the song or a podcast, if there's a breath or a pause or something, it doesn't wipe out and give me nausea. So I listen. I use that on planes 100% of the time with my AirPods Max. I can't do noise cancellation with the earbuds of any kind. I've tried dozens. It does not work even with the audio background sounds. So that's my weirdness. How about yours?

[B]

I've used noise canceling headphones for some years.

[C]

I had a pair of the Bose over the ear ones for a long time, which I liked quite a bit. I now use AirPods Pro 2, which I've had for many years.

[B]

It doesn't tend to bother me.

[C]

I don't find that I have like a physiological effect from it.

[B]

I think more than anything, the. The in ear parts of earbuds tend

[C]

to bother me more just because I find them less comfortable in some cases still. And I find that like in certain

[B]

cases, depending on like things like temperature or air pressure or stuff like that,

[C]

when I'm like walking around outside, I'll get the vibrations from just walking and they'll like make everything feel very thumpy in my head.

[B]

And so sometimes the noise canceling can

[C]

exacerbate that because it's blocking out all the extra sounds.

[B]

But in general, the noise canceling part

[C]

of it I just find a nice benefit.

[B]

I would say the only exception is I do sometimes, like, if I wake

[C]

up in the middle of night and I can't get back to sleep, I'll put in my AirPods and, you know, have on some like, white noise or something like that. And I struggle sometimes with when you've got like a noise canceling, but, like, you kind of lose the seal a little bit and it gets a little.

[B]

It can sometimes feel a little strange,

[C]

especially when you've got, like, your head

[B]

on the pillow or something.

[C]

But generally that's the kind of thing I find if I just sort of move around, I can. I can avoid. Doesn't bother me too much. Jeff, what about you?

[D]

This was absolutely a feature that I thought, I don't really need this. It's. It's an extra whatever. And then once I had a taste of real good noise canceling, now I'm like, yes, bring it on almost every time. Part of this is because my wife and I share an office and she's on the phone a lot for work. So I like to have good, not exceptional noise canceling. I just need, like a little bit of a buffer there, and that works just fine. I had some AirPods Max. They eventually died, so I bought some inexpensive Anker ones that are perfectly fine. I tried using the AirPods Pro, I guess, two AirPods Pro 3 for a while, and that helped. But just having the earbuds in my ears just was not comfortable over hours and hours and hours. But I will say that I didn't quite realize how much that I like the noise cancellation until recently. I went to a coffee shop to do some work and I realized I had left my AirPods at home. And my God, that place was loud. And it could be because this was in downtown Seattle, I think. There was a whole group of tourists and they were chatting and whatever, but just not being able to tune things out by this magical technology was a little bit jarring. So now I'm afraid that I'm relying on it too much. But, you know, it's good and it helps me focus. And overall, the quality and the advancement of it has been really impressive. So, yeah, I'm all in on it.

[A]

Every once in a while, I will have a moment where it starts to make me feel a little ill. And I. It's. It's almost like I'm afraid of getting tinnitus. I am. It's the same thing with this. I sort of go into denial mode. Like, no, you're not feeling ill right now because you can't put. Possibly live without noise cancellation. I love noise cancellation. Sometimes I just pop them in. There's nothing playing. It's just Quieter. And I can hear all of my body sounds. And for some people that's frightening and it reminds them of their mortality. But sometimes the thing that makes me feel most calm is being reminded of my mortality. And so I like to listen to nothing and just be noise canceled from the world. And so thank you all for sharing your answers on that.

[D]

This podcast just got deep for me.

[A]

It's definitely a make it or break it. I would not. Outside of headphones that I'm using for podcasting, if I'm going to get some headphones for music listening or audiobook listening, they had better have noise cancellation.

[E]

Ooh, sounds threatening.

[A]

Or else.

[B]

Or else.

[A]

Kathy, it's time for your topic.

[E]

Or else what is something you do the analog way, even though a perfectly good tech version exists?

[B]

Oh man, this is a tough question

[C]

because I think there are so many things that I tend to default to kind of the, the tech based version of it.

[B]

I think probably the one that comes

[C]

to mind most of all is actually,

[B]

it's like a lot of the stuff I do with my kid these days. Like, I know there are apps and stuff that I could be doing some of the like, like games and things like that, but I just find that in general, we're usually doing sort of

[C]

low tech stuff, whether it's like, I don't know, reading a book or, or playing with, you know, his little wooden trains, like at one point to distract him during a meal. At some point, one of my, my cousins showed him like an iPhone game where he could like build trains on the screen. And my wife and I kind of were like, oh no, is this the moment that we lose him to the, to the online?

[B]

And he, he asked for it once or twice after that and then he

[C]

kind of forgot about it and we're like, we're just gonna move away from that.

[B]

So I guess that's kind of the

[C]

thing that comes to mind first is just this idea that we like, we

[B]

found ways to hopefully entertain him that

[C]

don't require as much technology and it's not suggest we're being Luddites or anything. He does watch, you know, movies and videos and stuff like that. But we don't like immediately default to like games that he can play on the phone as much as we try to have him do sort of more low tech stuff. Jeff, what about you?

[D]

This is going to be incredibly surprising, but I'm going to talk about coffee because when I, I mean, I have like a decent espresso machine, so I guess that that still counts as tech but most days I just pour over for my wife and I. And that's just, you know, I guess technology in grinding the beans and heating up the water. But that's kind of about it. My, my brain went to things like, well, what about reading? And then I realized that lately I've been reading mostly on the iPad, reading ebooks and you know, just things like that. But coffee, in addition to being like a real manual thing, like it is also that, that ritualistic thing too. So for a few minutes every morning I'm not doing anything on devices at all. And it's actually kind of nice for me.

[A]

It's a lot of, a lot of stuff that you have digital versions for. I don't go that way with it. So recipes are a really good example. I like to have my recipes printed out and have the physical version. Even though it's literally coming from an app, I print it from the app. I just don't. There's something about having it on the screen that it just makes me feel like I'm forgetting things. Whereas when it's on a piece of paper, I feel like I can follow along. And perhaps there's something to like the looking at a printed out recipe and seeing little marks on it and going, oh right. Like I made this before and here's where I got the cocoa powder on the side. That's my thumbprint. Also crochet stuff. I will take the digital patterns and edit them so that they work for me and then print them out because I will cross out things as I complete them. I've been really into paint by numbers lately, just as a fun little sort of pastime. And obviously there are digital versions of that, plenty of digital painting apps, but I'm doing it by hand. And then also I do run a in person D and D game. And so there's a per. There are plenty of perfectly good digital tech versions of the of running D and D. But there's something about doing it, you know, in person, at a table that is also quite delightful. That's my answer. Kathy, what's yours?

[E]

So I thought about this because I do basically my daily planning on paper. I hand write, my brain dumps and handwrite, journaling. It's all that pen and paper vibes. And then Maiko, when you were saying about cross or crochet, I realized that my cross stitch, I print out the pattern and then I can highlight and black out the parts that I'm done. And I know there are so many different apps and like ways to do it on Your phone or an iPad. And I'm like, I don't want to. I want just. Just this little container that has everything that I need. So thank you for sharing.

[B]

All right, that is our four topics down.

[C]

We got just enough time for a bonus topic.

[B]

So let me ask you this. Do you have a favorite architectural style, Jeff?

[D]

I don't know if I have a favorite, but my eye is always drawn to more modern, angular stuff. I do not live in a modern, angular house. There are very few of them around me even. But that's what catches my eye.

[A]

Same. Same as Jeff. I love that style. I don't even know, like, there are different versions of it, but on a given block, you'll see one of those houses. That's one I'm looking at. That's the one that other people are going, micah, did you see that one? Yeah, very much that. Kathy, what about you?

[E]

I really like art nouveau. It's a little bit softer than the art deco, but it's always so interesting. And there's always nice little pieces in it that just make it so like constantly you can just stare at it and look at it and find new things.

[C]

Yeah, those are all good. I. I'm a big art deco fan. I don't know, there's something about the sort of the angular shapes and the ex. Like the flourishes and the look of it. I'm a sucker for a great art deco building. It's just amazing.

[B]

Hey, if you'd like to get ad

[C]

free episodes with an extra unwound episode

[B]

every week, you can become a member of clockwise, just go to Relay FM

[C]

clockwise, and sign up for just $7

[B]

per month or $70 a year, and you will help support the show. And we really appreciate it. And with that, we have reached the end of this week's episode.

[C]

All that remains is for us to thank our fantastic guests.

[B]

Jeff Carlson, thank you so much for being here.

[D]

Thank you. It's always a pleasure.

[A]

And Kathy Campbell, thank you so much for joining us.

[E]

Thank you for having me, as always.

[B]

And Micah, we'll be back, back next week running the show smooth as silk,

[C]

like we always do.

[B]

But until then, remind everyone out there listening, watch what you say and keep watching the clock.

[C]

Bye, everybody.