658: Ugh, So Meaty

Summary

Clockwise Ep. 658: Ugh, So Meaty

Date: May 27, 2026
Hosts: Dan Moren and Micah Sargent
Guests: Amanda Silberling (TechCrunch) & Alex Cox (Podcaster, Documentarian)

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Episode Overview

In episode 658, hosts Dan Moren and Micah Sargent are joined by Amanda Silberling and Alex Cox for another classic 30-minute, four-topic discussion on the intersection of technology, daily life, and personal habits. The roundtable covers algorithmic shopping, the appeal and limitations of "dumb" phones, the evolving world of fitness wearables, and hardware that feels tailored to individual needs, all while keeping the banter sharp and the tone light-hearted.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Buying from Social Media Ads

[02:13–07:08]

• Q: Have you ever purchased anything from a social media ad? What was it?
• Amanda: Admits to succumbing "many times," especially to jewelry that’s “a little weird, but also wearable.” Gives a shoutout to “Little Rooms.”
  • “Instagram has figured out my exact taste in jewelry.” [02:44]
• Dan: “I would not be so dissembling as to say that I've never clicked on an ad in social media…” though he resists completing purchases. Hesitation is often caused by a lack of trust and desire to do more research. He wants to avoid being targeted for future ads but admits to buying "ruggable" rugs after independent research.
  • “I need that, like, second worth of reality check...” [04:10]
• Alex: Has “not bought anything, mostly out of spite.” Used VPNs and manipulated Instagram profiles for fun, but eventually got targeted with products they’d already purchased elsewhere. Admits it’s “just pure petty spite” keeping them from buying via algorithmic ads.
• Micah: Has bought things like a “tobacco and leather” candle, and shares stories of “banger Christmas gifts” his partner found on Instagram—like a “hat with a hat on it” and a Twin Peaks basketball jersey.
  • “Where else would you find that but through an Instagram ad?” [06:42]
• Summary: The group is mostly wary of social ads, but temptations and clever algorithms do sometimes win out—often with a dose of skepticism and after additional research.

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2. Dumb Phones and Activity-Limiting Gadgets

[07:08–12:36]

• Amanda (Prompt): Testing the Light Phone and similar minimalist devices, asks: “What features would a dumb phone need for you to use it? / Would you consider using one?”
• Dan: Feels physical limitations alone are often not enough to curb habits; it's like “putting cookies in a jar on a tall shelf—I know where the step stool is.” Feels frustrated by the lack of predictable features.
  • “At a certain point I'm just back in the same like problem… even if I have a web browser... I can still check my social media…” [08:23]
  • “I cannot be stopped when it comes to cookies. Just like with phones.” [08:49]
• Alex: Wants more user control; minimalist devices often “have really strong opinions about how they want to be used.” Wishes for a dumb phone with a T9 keyboard for efficient tactile typing, evoking nostalgia for early mobile text entry.
  • “That was the last time I could fully touch type on a phone, and I genuinely miss that.” [09:27]
• Micah: Would likely feel resentful toward a device that forced them to give up convenience, and feels they already manage their tech use pretty well.
• Amanda: Notes the Light Phone lacks RCS and iMessage support, complicating real-world switching. She likes “the brick” phone better—a minimalist device popular on Instagram.
  • “Even just the process of going back and forth between the devices was complicated.” [11:34]
• Summary: Hardware-only solutions rarely overcome ingrained tech habits. Nostalgia (T9 texting!), practical app needs, and social friction all pose huge hurdles.

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3. The Return of Screenless Fitness Trackers

[13:20–16:59]

• Dan (Prompt): With Google and Whoop entering the screenless band market again, would they appeal to anyone over smartwatches or rings?
• Alex: Trust is a major problem: “I just no longer trust most of the companies that are collecting this data.” Wouldn’t trust Google, but might try an Apple Health-centric or open source option, adding, “If someone’s like, put this battery on your wrist, I would be like, sure, okay…” [14:41]
• Micah: Not interested, given already owning major brand wearables. Would only be enticed by a truly novel or unique approach.
• Amanda: Biggest concern: aesthetics—“A lot of [wearables] are ugly.” Excited by Lumia’s fitness-tracking earring backs and ear cuffs (not yet released). Dislikes subscription models like Oura Ring’s; wants a device that's stylish and subscription-free.
• Dan: Thinks fitness tracking is highly personal in both information sensitivity and fashion. Unlikely to swap out his Apple Watch for something new unless it offers real, actionable benefits.
  • “How much of this is actionable, how much is this is something I can do anything about, how much of it is useful and how much of it is just there to have more numbers for me to obsess over?” [17:34]
• Summary: Privacy, data utility, style, and genuine usability trump novelty. The panel sees incremental rather than revolutionary potential—Apple Watch still dominates.

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4. Gadgets (Accidentally) Meant for You

[19:09–24:41]

• Alex (Prompt): “Is there a piece of tech hardware or accessory that feels purpose-built for you, even by accident? Or have you made a custom workaround?”
• Micah:
  • Loves the Apple Watch Alpine Loop (“never had [phantom taps] with this band”) [19:57]
  • Large phones fit well: “I do have monster hands … nice to have a phone that fits really well in my hand.”
  • 3D printed a vacuum trigger lock—“Boom, we got there in the end.” [21:07]
• Amanda: Enthusiastic about the XTY Ink X3, a tiny E-reader that magnetizes to phone backs. However, her popsocket wallet disrupts using it that way, so she carries it separately in her purse.
  • “I really much prefer reading E Ink as opposed to like a normal screen. So I'm … pro tiny E reader and I love it.” [22:41]
• Dan: His Kobo Libra 2 E-reader is “kind of a perfect device for me” due to its physical buttons, ergonomic shape, and portability. Also calls out good game controller design, contrasting it with the painful NES controllers of his youth.
  • “Modern game controllers, you know, kids today have it too easy, I guess, is what I'm saying.” [24:33]
• Alex: Has stubby, wide hands and laments that phones/cases are rarely comfortable. Used to DIY MagSafe popsockets before they were on the market. Now making a Play-Doh cast of their hand to mount on a phone case!
  • “If I could just get a phone case that fit in my hand, it would fix me … I am currently drying some Play Doh that is a cast of my hand that I hope to put … via magsafe on my phone. We'll see how that goes.” [26:23]
• Summary: Personalization is key. Group members often hack, customize, or seek out niche accessories for comfort and functionality.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Micah: “While Dan is open mouth catching meatballs like a carnivorous turkey…” [01:00]
• Amanda: “Would raining meatballs solve world hunger?” [01:26]
• Alex: “Mostly out of spite…just pure petty spite” [04:49]
• Dan: “I cannot be stopped when it comes to cookies. Just like with phones.” [08:49]
• Amanda: “A lot of them are ugly … but they’re planning to sell it as an ear cuff if somebody doesn’t have pierced ears … I also don’t know who doesn’t have pierced ears but wants an ear cuff.” [16:03]
• Alex: “If someone’s like, put this battery on your wrist, I would be like, sure, okay, I will try it.” [14:52]
• Dan: “Modern game controllers, you know, kids today have it too easy, I guess, is what I'm saying.” [24:33]
• Alex: “I am currently drying some Play Doh that is a cast of my hand that I hope to put on the back of via magsafe on my phone. We’ll see how that goes.” [26:23]

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Bonus Round: Favorite Household Chores

[27:23–28:44]

• Amanda: Folding laundry—“just sit down and put on a podcast and just do it.” [27:40]
• Alex: Likes the result, not the process—especially when a robot does it (dishwasher, Roomba).
• Dan: Dishes are relaxing podcast time. [27:53]
• Micah: Mowing the lawn—“very satisfying about seeing the grass go tall to not as tall.” [28:44]

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• Opening Meatball Banter: [00:43–01:48]
• Topic 1 – Social Media Purchases: [02:13–07:08]
• Topic 2 – Dumb Phones: [07:08–12:36]
• Topic 3 – Screenless Fitness Trackers: [13:20–16:59]
• Topic 4 – Purpose-built Tech: [19:09–24:41]
• Bonus Chore Chat: [27:23–28:44]

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Final Thoughts

This episode highlights the Clockwise crew’s blend of skepticism and curiosity about new tech trends, personal needs, and daily routines. With a mix of practical insight, nostalgic humor, and creative hacks, the panel underscores that “one-size-fits-all” is rarely true in tech—and sometimes, petty spite is as strong a motivator as any algorithm.

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Hosts and guests will return next week, but until then, watch what you say and keep watching the clock!

Transcript

[A]

It's Time for episode 658 of the Clockwise podcast from Relay, recorded Wednesday, May 27, 2026. Clockwise. Four people, four tech topics, 30 minutes.

[B]

Welcome back to Clockwise, the tech podcast that's a tad more dependable than the forecast. I am one of your hosts. My name is Micah Sargent and I am joined across the Internet. I'm a good pal, my dear friend. It is the one, the only, Dan the Man Morin. How you doing, Dan?

[A]

I'm doing well, Micah. The forecast here says cloudy with a chance of meatballs.

[B]

Not again.

[A]

God makes such a mess every time.

[B]

Oh, so meaty anyway.

[A]

Yet I can't stop eating them. Oh, my God.

[B]

While. While Dan is open mouth catching meatballs like, like. Like a carnivorous turkey, I will move along to introduce our awesome guests. To my left, senior culture writer at TechCrunch and my regular occasional co host on Tech News Weekly, it is Amanda Silberling. How you doing, Amanda?

[C]

Hello.

[D]

I am.

[C]

I'm now wondering, would raining meatballs solve world hunger?

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

I'm worried about the possible concussions. You know, there's always some downsides. We only look at the good sides, never the downsides.

[C]

I'm also worried about how long does it take for the meatball to go bad? Like if someone finds a meatball on the ground and like, what if it's been there for a couple days and then they don't know that?

[A]

Real questions. We'll deal with this at never. Probably never. To my left this week, it is unemployed documentarian and podcaster, the fantastic, the fabulous Alex Cox. Welcome back, Alex.

[C]

Hello.

[D]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited and not going to say anything about meatballs. Pass. Pass.

[B]

Well, all right, fine. I will kick things off. You know how this works. We've got four topics, 30 minutes in mind. You is this. I would just like to know, have you ever purchased anything from a social media advertisement? Of course, first and foremost, Instagram comes to mind. But any place across the web where you've been browsing or, you know, swiping, scrolling, and you see something and you go, I need to have that. Would you like to share with the group what it was you purchased? Amanda, we'll start with you.

[C]

I feel like I've done this many times and it's often jewelry. Instagram has figured out my exact taste in jewelry where it's like, a little weird, but also wearable, not sponsored. There's this company called Little Rooms that was getting advertised to me for a while, and then I Finally bought something from them and I like it.

[A]

I would not be so dissembling as to say that I've never clicked on an ad in social media, but I feel like there's something that holds me back from going through and making the purchase right then and there. I don't know if it's some sort of deep seated mistrust. You know, it's like, oh, am I really going to make a purchase in a web view, in a, in a social media app? Has it come to this? Or whether it's just the realization that now I've clicked through from a social media app and I will be that person. I will forever see ads for this thing that I've bought anyway. But something always seems to hold me back despite my temptations. And, and, and I see a ton of stuff on Instagram all the time and I've definitely, like, I have bought stuff that I have seen advertised on social media. Like we bought a couple of those ruggable rugs, which are basically everywhere also. And so I won't say I'm totally uninfluenced by it, but I think I have managed to thus far keep myself from just like clicking through. Because, I mean, this is the trick with advertising all the time, right? Is like, it's not an accurate representation, right? You, you are tricked into believing, oh, you know, this is on my feed and they're showing how great it is and everything. And I always want to do my research, so I'm always being like, all right, but like, let me go look this thing up online and see if what the reviews are and what other people are saying about it that are not coming through the advertisement. Because I just need that. I need that, like, second worth of reality check where I'm like, okay, let me do the work now and see, rather than just do the impulse buy. So in that way, I hope at least that I am social media advertising's worst enemy. Alex, what about you?

[D]

I haven't bought anything. Mostly out of spite. I think at this point, for years I would use VPNs and different profiles with Instagram to see how I could manipulate the algorithm to give me something I know I didn't want. But, like, on a different type of Persona. And then I think I was traveling one time, forgot to turn something on, and then within like an hour, it had me absolutely, like, right away. Phone cases, queer clothes, different Pokemon stuff. I'm like, so I still am. It also showed me a ton of products that I had already purchased from different places, like from Doing research. And it had the, you know, also the Amazon problem of, hey, you bought this thing. Here's another thing that's almost exactly right, might be a little bit better. And I mean, I don't really have a moral stance against buying things from algorithmic ads, just pure petty spite.

[B]

So there have been a couple of occasions. One was a candle. It was like tobacco and leather or something like that. I really like. Yeah, I have on occasion purchased a couple of things using that method. My significant other, he'll get things on Instagram. And there have been a number of banger, banger, banger, Christmas gifts that I've gotten that I was like, where did you find Instagram? Like, you know what? I respect that you are brave enough to put your credit card numbers into one of these sites and get a thing. And I have a hat that has a. An embroidered hat on it that looks exactly like the hat that you're wearing. And so it's a hat hat. And where else would you find that but through an Instagram ad? And I also have a Twin Peaks, like, basketball jersey that's very well designed and has a bunch of references to Twin Peaks. And all of those were gifts that I received from him via Instagram ads. So, you know, I just sort of mostly let. Let him do his thing and then I don't have to. Thank you all for your answers on that. Let's go to our next topic, which comes from Amanda.

[C]

So I have been playing around a lot with, like, technology that is supposed to make you use technology less. Right now I have been testing the light phone, which is like one of the dumb phones. And so my question for you guys is, what features would a dumb phone need for you to use it? Slash, would you consider using a dumb phone?

[A]

I think that the inclination to try and reduce some of your dependence on technology is not necessarily a bad one. I tend to be of the school of those who think that there's only so much that buying an additional gadget or software, whatever is going to do for you if you don't have the will to follow through on it. I struggle to think because I feel like most of the time I would just be frustrated by the lack of features. And that's partially because I don't know on a given day what things I'm going to want. Like, yeah, it seems like having the ability to text people is obviously a need to. Need to have. I still feel like I need to check my email because, like, you never know when you're out. You need to reference Something in email, it's like, oh, but then do I need my banking app? Do I need the app to pay for parking meter, right? Like, everything is so app dependent now that it feels like I could be in a situation where if I don't have my phone, it's like, okay, how do I navigate this without my phone? And so I struggle to be like, well, which features are essential and which features are things that I could get away without? And then at a certain point I'm just back in the same like problem, right? Like, cause even if I have a web browser for accessing all those features I don't have apps for, I was like, well, I can still check my social media on a web browser, friends. I guess I'm feeling like the dumb phone. I get it, I get the temptation, but I feel like it's one of those. It's like putting the cookies in a jar on a tall shelf in a cabinet. It's like, I know where the step stool is. Like I know I put it there. It's not going to stop me, okay? I cannot be stopped when it comes to cookies. Just like with phones.

[D]

Anyways, you did research on the best step stool too, so it's even easier to get.

[A]

I bought it off Instagram.

[D]

Alex.

[A]

Alex, what about you?

[D]

I am kind of of, I suppose the weird opinion that I don't mind constantly using technology, I just want to use it on my terms. And that's kind of my problem with a lot of the minimalist devices right now is that they have really strong opinions about how they want to be used. The way that the light phone works is cool, but I poked at the keyboard and I'm like, I mean my main thing is would mostly be typing and I also desire a physical keyboard, but not the necessarily the full like QWERTY BlackBerry version. What about a phone that does just have a numerical keyboard? But. And I have not been able to find this, it does indeed have T9 built in so that you are able to use the old system where you would, you know, tap three buttons to find the C. People do. I don't know if people know what T9 is anymore, but that was the last time I could like fully touch type on a phone. And I genuinely miss that. It would really have to radically change. And I don't think the light phone or even something like the communicator by Mr. Mobile, which I think is really well built, is for me personally, as much

[B]

as I like the idea of something that kind of helps to pull you out of Tech, I think that I would have this, I would start to feel resentful and I would just stop using it. So I don't know that there's a feature that it would need to make me use it other than if the feature is actually. It's an iPhone. I do actually a pretty good job of limiting my interactions with my device, and so I don't really need it. And I would just end up feeling like, ugh, why is. Why am I making things much more difficult for myself? And everything's difficult enough. So, yeah, that's where I am on the dumb phone. But I would be curious to hear your thoughts, Amanda.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, even like with the light phone, it has some features like directions, so that if you need directions somewhere when you're out and about, or it has a hotspot somewhere. So a lot of people that use the light phone as their primary phone also carry around their old smartphone and then just hotspot it in case they need to, like, check their email or like, do something where they need to use their smartphone. I wonder if that kind of defeats the point. Even, like, I wanted to do, like a legitimate review of the light phone where I would, like, use that as my phone for a week. But even just the process of going back and forth between the devices was complicated and involves like turning off imessage because the light phone doesn't support imessage and then also it doesn't support rcs, which is even, what, more of an issue. Yeah. And I feel like for me to consider using one of these, it would have to at least support rcs. I have generally found more that so far I've been testing a bunch of these various products, and the one I like the most so far, which also gets advertised to a lot of people on Instagram, is the brick. So we'll see how it goes.

[B]

All right, folks, we have reached halftime here on clockwise, which means it's time for me to tell you about our swag at Clockwise Social. If you head there, you can see the various swag options available to you. We've got a wonderful hat, we have a wonderful shirt, we have a great tote. We've got quite a few different items available to you. We don't advertise them on Instagram. So, you know, head to Clockwise Social if you want to check them out and you'll help support the show. But also you'll be repping your favorite 30 minute tech podcast hosted by Dan Horne and Micah Sargent. So head there. Clockwise social media. Thank you. Let's Head back to the show with Dan's topic.

[A]

All right, so there's nothing new under the sun in technology we've all been around long enough to see. And now screenless fitness trackers are making a comeback with the Whoop band and Google's new Fitbit Air. Would you choose one of these over a smartwatch or a ring or other tracking device? And why or why not?

[D]

If you wouldn't, Alex, I would. If this were, I suppose a decade or two decades ago when Fitbit was its own company and you could easily export and delete all of your data and I just no longer trust most of the companies that are collecting this data. And is this data useful? And so far the answer has been no. When I've used the aura in the future, if these companies, like with the Apple Watch or Apple Health, like you could connect it to different service providers and healthcare like my doctor or, or quest, like, you know, blood test companies that I have some like, modicum of trust in and can or are, you know, supposedly following certain HIPAA laws. But I, at this point it's both like an ooh, I don't know how much I want them to know about my hormone levels and also I don't know if it'd be more beneficial than an Apple Watch. And that being said though, if Apple were to put something out that had all of the features of Apple Health and was just gathering that data and sending that off to my healthcare provider, I would very much be into that as well as any sort of weird open source option that wouldn't work in like two years. I would still try that. If someone's like, put this battery on your wrist, I would be like, sure, okay, I will try it. But Google, I'm not that excited.

[B]

Yeah, I think I'm right there with you. It is perhaps the fact that it's, you know, that one of these big companies where I've already got that category covered. I've got the watch from the big company on my left wrist. I've got the ring from the large company on my right ring finger. It's not compelling to have another tracker if, if I did, yeah, I would want it to be some unique, novel approach that perhaps had something, something interesting about it that I couldn't get from one of the big companies. So no, not for me. But Amanda, what about for you?

[C]

The biggest issue that I have with wearables is that a lot of them are ugly. But this company, Lumia, is making an earring back that is a fitness tracker. It's like, not out yet, but they're planning to sell it with either, like, you can buy the earring with it or you can use it as an earring back on like whatever other earrings you have. Or like, they're also doing it as an ear cuff if somebody doesn't have pierced ears and is. But like, I also don't know who doesn't have pierced ears but wants an ear cuff. But as someone that does have pierced ears, I'm very excited to see how that works because it seems like something that can give you the insights without looking ugly. And also it doesn't charge a subscription, which is also part of why like, like, I don't think the aura rings are that ugly, but I don't want to be like sucked into a subscription forever.

[A]

These are all interesting thoughts. I think it's interesting because the fitness tracker thing is so personal, right? It's not only in terms of preference because it's a thing that you're wearing and keeping with you, but kind of as, as Alex intimated, because of what it knows about you. And so there's competing dynamics there. I don't mind the idea of something that is, you know, screenless and is acting as a sensor, just generally speaking as a concept. I think there is potentially something to be gained there. But I am also, you know, somebody who wears an Apple watch and wears an Apple watch every day and doesn't feel like there is so many like that. I need a whole like, you know, constellation of fitness devices all over my body to collect more information. Because the, the question then becomes how much of this is actionable, how much is this is something I, I can do anything about, how much of it is useful and how much of it is just there to have more numbers for me to obsess over. And so, you know, I think there's a strong argument that maybe Apple has an opportunity to expand into this space and go beyond the Apple watch. That said, I, you know, kind of roll my eyes at the people are like, Apple needs to get into this space. It's like, first of all, the Apple Watch killed all of these things the first time around. Second of all, the Apple Watch probably outsells all of these things, even if it is more expensive and in a slightly different category, I'm not sure that the Google's new Fitbit is going to, you know, suddenly walk in and steal all those people who are going to, you know, buy Apple watches. The integration, the other features on there make a difference. And kind of, as we were discussing with the dumb phone question before, it's like, well, what. What things am I willing to sacrifice in order to use a screenless device? Do I, you know, not get like, you know, be able to see messages? Do I not get the ability to use like, my workout apps that I want to use? All of those I think are valid questions. So I'm not ready to switch to one of these. I haven't seen a compelling reason to swap out from a smartwatch, but I certainly acknowledge that there's a market for these things and that the smartwatch shouldn't be the only thing that's out there. So thanks again for your thoughts on that. Let's go to our final topic, which comes from Alex.

[D]

After decades of what I think was pretty positive progress in software accessibility the past few weeks, Apple has finally seemed to embrace the fact that people physically use their handhelds in different ways. And, you know, whether that's how someone holds their phone or puts it on their body pockets versus lanyards, whatever. And I'm wondering, has there ever been a piece of tech hardware or tech accessory that feels like it was purpose built for you, like on accident? And if not, have you ever made a custom workaround?

[B]

I think that for me there are two things that for the most part feel that way. One is the Alpine loop for the Apple watch. I have had lots of different Apple watches in the past. Apple watch bands, I mean in the past that they were comfortable, but there was always sort of like a slight bit of adjustment that I could do. Or the other problem was if it was one that was more endlessly adjustable, like the magnetic options, anytime I'd get like a slight movement, it would, it would have the two pieces of the band kind of like against itself. And it is a little bit like a vibration. And so I would get these phantom taps on my wrist thinking that I was getting a notification, but it was actually just the band adjusting. I've never had that with this band and so I quite like it. I would also say though, that sometimes, given the complaints that I hear about the large size of the phones, the max phones, that they are purpose built for me because I do have monster hands. They are quite large. It's so nice to have this phone that fits really well in my hand, but I feel for people who, you know that the phone is a little large for them, so. Oh wait, hold on. I know I'm talking for too long, but I just remembered one which is that I've got a, a Dyson vacuum. And the annoying thing about it is you have to hold the trigger to be able to vacuum. I 3D printed this piece that lets you keep the trigger pressed and so that way you don't have to keep your finger on the trigger the whole time and you can just use the vacuum. So boom, we got there in the end. All right, Amanda, your turn.

[C]

Dan mentioned this earlier, but I would say the XT Yink X3, which is a tiny E reader that has been making the rounds on the Internet lately and it can magnetize to the back of your phone. I love it. But also I haven't been using it on my phone as much as I would like because I have a popsocket wallet and I have just gotten to in the habit of thinking that if I have my phone, then I also have my id, debit card, and credit card on me. So I. But I have been carrying the XT Ink 3 in my purse just generally. And I really like it. It's just basically like it's easier to read while you are on the go and you don't have to remember to like take your Kindle and put it in your bag. I just never even imagined that there could be such a tiny little E reader that like goes on your phone. Because I'm just someone that. I really much prefer reading E Ink as opposed to like a normal screen. So I'm very, I'm very bullish on the tiny E reader market. I'm pro tiny E reader and I love it.

[A]

Nothing wrong with that. You know, the first thing that jumped to mind for me too was an E reader and it's my Kobo Libre 2, which I find to be kind of a perfect device for me. I like that it's got, it's got physical buttons, it's got that sort of asymmetrical shape that the, I think it was the Kindle Oasis also had, which is like, there's buttons and like a thicker side on one side so you can kind of hold it without your hand being on the screen. It's lightweight, but like, still, you know, big enough that it's got a larger screen that I can read on. I just, I find it very comfortable to use in bed when I'm reading before I go to sleep or traveling. Like, it's super light and like always feels like, oh, I just throw it in my bag, no problem. And I like all of those aspects about it. It's, I think, remained one of my, one of my favorite all over tech devices. I had these moments where I think about other things too. I mean, like, you know, from a purely ergonomic perspective, I really like game controllers. Like a lot of game controllers are well designed for that, right. Like the current PlayStation controller I find to be just a very pleasant. It's got a nice weight to it, the buttons are very responsive. Like it's got little thumbsticks and all that. Like, I, I enjoy the tactile nature of a good game controller, especially having grown up with like Nintendo, original Nintendo game controllers, which you would hold, not only would you get like terrible thumb cramps, but like the sharp corners would dig your hand as you clutch them tightly, trying not to die and have to start the game all over again. So modern game controllers, you know, kids today have it too easy, I guess, is what I'm saying. Alex finds you wrap us up.

[D]

I, I guess I am a lot different than Micah in that I have, you know, really stubby hand, both. Well, really wide and. But stubby fingers, more of a girth knot length situation. And also unlike Amanda, I don't care how I look. I already do look like a weirdo carrying around all of my stuff all the time. And I used to really be a caseless person because I enjoyed, you know, holding. I really was like an Apple fanboy back in the day because of the ergonomics almost. And the iPhone 5 was always my favorite, despite the much maligned, I think wrongly chamfered edge because it gave just a little bit extra grippiness. And it also, you know, famously there was that commercial of like, oh, the screen is bigger and look, it is the exact size for average thumbs. And I'm like, oh heck yeah. Yes. But ever since then, like I remembered the day in 2014 when the iPhone 16 came out. I'm like, oh no. Oh no. And ever since then, I've kind of had a hyper fixation with not just cases, but trying to get my phone to just basically not be a pain in the butt to use. Which is probably why I don't need a light phone or anything like that. So I have, I used to make my own MagSafe popsockets before they were available. You could get on Amazon little. Yeah, it was. There's a whole weird drawer here of stuff and I'm still kind of like, where is the sort of originality when it comes to iPhone cases in the fashion world? There seems to be a lot of really nice stuff, including actually the Hikawa, I believe by Shane Burkha, which was just featured by Apple. And I'm kind of hopeful. You know, maika, you mentioned 3D printing. The market still is, I think, small enough for 3D printers that people aren't really embracing making or able to embrace making their own stuff. But I, I feel like if I could just get a phone case that fit in my hand, it would fix me and it would, it would be all right until then. I'm currently drying some play doh. That is a cast of my hand that I hope to put on the back of via magsafe on my phone. We'll see how that goes. Probably not well, you know, prototype.

[B]

That is going to bring us nearly to the end of this episode of Clockwise, but I've got enough time for a bonus topic. I'm curious. What is a household chore that you secretly enjoy? Or maybe not so secretly? Amanda, we'll start with you.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know, maybe like sometimes folding laundry, I just kind of sit down and put on a podcast and just do it. I don't know, I just don't like chores.

[D]

But you gotta do them

[A]

dishes. It's one of the few times I get to listen to podcasts. So like, that's actually kind of a nice. I kind of zone out and listen to a podcast and wash the dishes and then the dishes are clean.

[C]

That's my least favorite chore, so that's fair.

[A]

I got, I got a longer list of least favorite chores.

[D]

Don't necessarily enjoy any chores, but I enjoy the satisfaction of knowing that a machine has successfully done it for me. When I got a dishwasher, it was just mind blowing. I'm like, oh, it's so, so clean. This is cleaner. I've been eating off just disgusting stuff that I've been doing. So between that and my Roomba, there is a bit of a satisfaction of like, okay, I do need to clean up these little bit of crumbs over here. But 99% like, he got it all. And that makes me happy.

[B]

For me, it is mowing. There's something very satisfying about seeing the grass go tall to not as tall. I don't know, it's just very satisfying. Thank you all for your answers to that. If you out there would like to get ad free episodes, an extra unwound episode every week, you can become a member of Clockwise. Just go to Relay FM clockwise to sign up. $7 a month, $70 a year to help support the show. It is time to say goodbye to our guests as we have reached the end of this episode. Amanda Silberling, thank you. Thank you so much for being here.

[C]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Alex Cox. Thank you so much for joining us on clockwise.

[D]

Thank you. As always, it is such a pleasure.

[A]

And, Micah, we'll be back next week, but until then, we remind everyone listening out there, watch what you say and

[B]

keep watching the clock.

[A]

Bye, everybody.