← Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty
Clotheshorse with Amanda Lee McCarty
Episode 214: Sewing is an act of self-determination (part 1), with Ruby of Spokes & Stitches
02:08:31
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- [00:00]
Amanda
Foreign.
- [00:18]
Ruby
Welcome to Closed Source, the podcast that is going to Japan in two weeks. I'm so excited about this. I'm going to be there for a full month. And guess what? Thanks to the miracles of modern technology, or at least this really cool portable recording device that I bought a couple months back secondhand, I'm going to be producing some mini episodes while I'm in Japan, just sort of talking about my experiences there, things I've learned. I'm, you know, I'm planning a lot of educational activities, so keep an eye out for those in November while I'm in Japan. I will tell you that when those episodes come out, it will probably not be our usual Sunday Monday kind of thing because of the time difference and having to record it and then share it with Dustin so that he can mix it back here in the States. But I'm really excited to explore some new stuff in Japan and tell you all about it. That said, I'm your host, Amanda, and this is episode 215 and this week's guest is someone you already know, Ruby, of spokes and stitches, and she's here to talk about all things sewing. We recorded this conversation for three hours, actually a little bit more than three hours, with only one bathroom break in my kitchen at my house here in Lancaster County. It's the first time I've done something like that. It was so much fun. And then because we didn't cover everything, we basically had to stop recording because we both needed to go eat some food asap. We picked it all up a week later and recorded for another two hours virtually. So there is a ton of information to share with you. And I am so grateful for Ruby because she has so much expertise to share in the world of sewing, like all things sewing, stuff that I don't know at all. And I was excited to learn from her. So this episode is part one in this series. Part two will be coming next week and there might be a part three coming your way when I return from Japan. It just depends how I finish out all the editing stuff, but trust me, me, so much more sewing information coming from Ruby in the next couple of months. In this week's episode, we'll be discussing, well, so many things. A brief history of the mass production of clothing, why people stopped sewing their own clothing as a regular part of daily life. And I'll actually be talking about this topic more next week, along with a history of home economics education this week we'll also unpack the barriers that make sewing a privilege for many in 202024 and why. It's, you know, it's. I mean, to be honest, it's just not realistic at this point to expect everyone to start sewing their own clothes. We'll talk about why you, yes, you might want to get into sewing and how you can get started on sewing, even if you've never done it before. Ruby will share her advice for finding less expensive but totally rad fabric options. And of course we're going to talk about so much more. So much to discuss, right? And this, once again, is just part one of this series. There's more coming your way because we had so much to discuss and this is a long conversation. It was hard to find things to cut. I won't be doing my standard introduction segment this week, but I do want to make two announcements, shout outs before we jump in. 1. I always say this at the end of the episodes, and maybe many of you do not hear this. Please subscribe if you like this podcast, please rate and most importantly, please review clotheshorse. These are all things that help bring the podcast to more people and it's a way you can show your support for Clothesh without spending a cent. And this is just like totally personal and low key, semi embarrassing, but I'm just gonna tell you anyway. Um, a podcast that just launched, like, I don't know, maybe not even six months ago, was on Instagram asking for reviews and I went to leave them a review and I was like, holy crap. This podcast has only been around for a few months and it has more reviews than clotheshorse, who's been around for like four and a half years. And I got really sad and was like, well, I'm a failure. But I realize now that perhaps I'm just not reminding you to leave a review. And if you hate this podcast, well, I don't know why you're here, but please don't leave a review because mean reviews hurt my feelings and make me sad and they don't really change anything, but you know, they do succeed in making me feel bad. So anyway, rate Review Subscribe. It means a lot and it doesn't cost anything. The other thing I wanted to call out is, as I said at the top of the episode, I am leaving for Japan in a few weeks, which means while I'm gone, you will not be able to order merch like the iron on transfers and stickers. I mean, you'll be able to order them, but you won't receive them until I return from Japan the week of Thanksgiving here in the United States. And that's Something I was thinking about for a while. I was like, oh, I could ask Dustin to pack orders for me while I'm gone, but that just felt rude. So get your orders in by October 27th. Otherwise, wait until the end of November. And Dustin and I are finalizing some new iron on transfers that we're going to be putting up for pre sale in the coming weeks. So keep your eyes out for that, too. But for anything that already exists, order it now. We're almost out of unskilled labor is a classist myth. Transfers, I mean, literally almost out. There's like five left. And after that there won't be any more until I return from Japan. So if you've been procrastinating or you want to to get a head start on making some iron on gifts for your loved ones, now is a great time to place those orders. All right, all the boring stuff out of the way, let's jump into something way more interesting. My conversation with Ruby. All right, Ruby, you've been on here so many times before, but do you want to just remind everybody of who you are?
- [06:22]
Amanda
Sure. Hi. Thank you for having me back. My name is Ruby Gertz. I live in Philadelphia and I am a pattern maker and sewist. I run a sewing studio out of Firehouse Arts, Germantown in. In Philadelphia, where I live. And I freelance as a pattern maker, pattern grader, design consultant. I also teach pattern making workshops for hobbyists and people who are starting to professionalize. And I also teach private sewing lessons. So do a lot of things.
- [06:58]
Ruby
I do. You do a lot of things. And Ruby is actually here at my house in Lancaster County. We're literally recording in my kitchen, which I've never done before. This is very exciting to just be like face to face recording. Right. So today we're going to talk about sewing. And you know, I've said this here on the podcast before, but I've been doing this now for four years. I certainly have posted a lot of stuff on social media and patterns emerge about different topics.
- [07:27]
Dustin
And one thing that comes up over.
- [07:28]
Ruby
And over again is if I post about, like, how we need to buy less stuff or something, about how fast fashion is, lower quality, et cetera, et cetera. Someone will show up every time and it's a different person every time. To be fair to say, I don't know what's wrong with all of you.
- [07:44]
Dustin
Why don't you just sew all your own clothes?
- [07:46]
Ruby
That's what I do. And that can be a great solution. We can also agree that people who Sew their own clothes could actually be sewing too many clothes because I see that on social media too. People who are literally sewing, as far as I can tell, a new outfit every day, which I don't know how they do that, they must not get very much sleep or eat or do any self care of any sort. And this must be their full time thing is sewing clothes, which does sound kind of fun. But the reality is that like yes, sewing can be an important part of the slow fashion lifestyle. It can mean you are sewing your own clothes, or you are repairing your own clothes, or you are upcycling materials into clothes. All these things, all important, there's a whole spectrum of it. But sewing itself has a lot of privilege attached to it. And we're going to talk about that today and also just kind of give you all some advice about how you can start sewing once again. You don't need to sew your own wardrobe, but maybe just learning how to do some hemming would be a great thing or how to do some simple repairs. So we're going to talk about all that stuff today, but we're going to get started by talking about kind of one of the biggest privileges I would say attached to sewing, which is actually knowing how to sew. So Ruby, how did you learn how to sew?
- [09:04]
Amanda
Yeah, great question, Amanda. So I was lucky enough to be taught how to sew by my mother when I was probably around like 10 or 11. Actually before that even, I was very into making clothing for my like stuffed animals and dolls.
- [09:19]
Ruby
I feel this. Yes, same.
- [09:21]
Amanda
Which I think is a very common trajectory for those of us that end up in fashion school definitely. But yeah, before I knew how to sew, I would just sort of like take textiles, anything, napkins, Kleenex, toilet paper, whatever, and just sort of wrap them around my dolls or stuffed animals to make, you know, like a Barbie wedding dress out of toilet paper. Who doesn't love that? Right? Secured with like, you know, some tape around the waist.
- [09:45]
Ruby
We all know this experience. Maybe you color in some like with a magic marker, like a floral print or something.
- [09:51]
Amanda
Oh my gosh. Yeah, very, very like advanced surface textile design happening. But yeah, so I always sort of had an interest in it. And then my mother taught me how to sew kind of the most basic stuff when I was probably in like late elementary school. And then in middle school, I started to really get into it a lot more. I think I kind of quickly surpassed my mom's skill set and started teaching myself. And by the time I got into High school, I had sewn a bunch of like commercial patterns which are like, you know, those ones that come in the envelopes that you get at like joann fabrics. And I was just always really unhappy with the fit. Like they always came out either way too big or way too small and very boxy. And even as a young teenager I was like pretty curvy. So stuff just like didn't fit over my body very well. So I really wanted to learn pattern making. And I actually ordered in the early days when Amazon was only a textbook. Remember when Amazon was for ordering textbooks online? I actually ordered with like some birthday money or something. I ordered a pattern making textbook and I remember like waiting by the door for it to arrive. Like I was so excited. And it came and I read that thing cover to cover, like Harry Potter or something. Like I was just like so into it. It was very nerdy. But yeah, but I kind of learned as much as I could about pattern making. Ended up going to fashion school where I learned even more about sewing and pattern making. I had the privilege to learn from a lot of like really amazing seamstresses and technical designers and people that were teaching at Pratt, which is where I did my undergrad in fashion design. So I picked up a lot of really cool, helpful tips and tricks. And then after I graduated from fashion school, I was sewing professionally as a seamstress and also working as a pattern maker, doing kind of freelance projects here and there, wherever I could get them for different companies.
- [11:36]
Ruby
So yeah, you've done a lot of sewing.
- [11:39]
Amanda
I have.
- [11:40]
Ruby
You know, I think it's really interesting, like your foundation for sewing really came from your mom. And I think for a lot of people out there who do know how to sew, it either came from a parent, a grandparent or they learned it in school. Right. And for me, I come from a very uncrafty, very bad at cooking family. And I don't think it's because there's lack of interest there, there's just lack of time. Right. So my grandmother always worked outside the house, My mother always worked outside the house and they just worked all the time. I have heard stories of my great grandmother sewing clothes for my mom when my mom was in high school and younger. I've heard stories about what an amazing cook she was, but it ended there.
- [12:21]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [12:21]
Ruby
And it's interesting to me that cooking and just crafting and sewing are like so important to me and like are mostly self taught skills. Except that I was lucky enough. Well, two things. One, I was in the girl Scouts, which When I joined the Girl Scouts, I had this vision that I was going to be off learning all this, like, wilderness survival stuff and building fires and canoeing and like, who knows what else. But the reality is that when I was a kid in Girl Scouts, we did a tiny bit of camping, but we sure did a lot of crafts. And that's where I learned how to do cross stitch and embroidery and like, simple sewing. Like hand sewing.
- [12:57]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [12:58]
Ruby
Which really upped my Barbie clothes game for quite a while because I would make all kinds of stuff out of any scrap of fabric or anything that was around our house for my Barbies, but obviously they probably weren't very polished. But in middle school here in Pennsylvania, when I was growing up, everybody was required to take home EC in seventh and eighth grade. So you learned cooking and how to, like, budget and how to, like, prepare food safely. And you also learned how to sew. And in seventh grade you sewed an apron. And in eighth grade, you could sew a pair of, like, shorts that the teacher called jams. And the other option, I cannot remember what it was, I made the jams.
- [13:38]
Amanda
The jams.
- [13:39]
Ruby
The jams. And I thought they were really cool, but, like, someone. I wore them to school one time and someone was like, I can't believe you're wearing your jams to school. And I felt embarrassed when they were really cool.
- [13:49]
Amanda
Anyway, bring back the jams.
- [13:51]
Ruby
Bring back the jams. Yeah. So, like, yeah, I learned how to. I learned all that stuff in school. I did not learn it at home. And I think I feel very lucky because most people don't get access to that education in school. They may not have the access to these, like, extracurricular activities like the Girl Scouts, where you could learn things like that as well. And so for me, many people, they're sort of locked out of the sewing world or knitting or crochet or cooking or all of these other things that we once learned either in school or from our families. And we're going to go through that whole history. You know, I remember my mom telling me specifically how my great grandmother would sew a lot of her clothes. And for most of her childhood, that was cool until she got to high school, and then she was embarrassed. Right. And I think that that is a very interesting thing to think about because that would have been like the 70s. I think it f. Kind of follows the trajectory of what happened with home sewing and why we all switched to mass produced clothing, which is interesting because now a garment that is made just for you is like, feels like a Luxury. Right. But it wouldn't have always been that way. Do you want to explain to us how that happened?
- [15:05]
Amanda
Absolutely, yeah. So to kind of dive into this, we have to talk a little bit about the history of mass production of clothing. So I think we. In a previous episode, we talked about a little bit of this. I think it might be the size charts and gender episode.
- [15:22]
Ruby
I remember now.
- [15:23]
Amanda
I don't remember the number off the top of my head, but you can look that up if you want all the details. But basically, mass production started. It's fairly recent. It started in the mid-1800s. And the first major application for mass production of clothing was military uniforms.
- [15:41]
Ruby
Of course.
- [15:42]
Amanda
Yeah. It was actually during the Civil War in the United States, the Union army had to outfit a whole bunch of soldiers, and they had to do it very quickly and very cheaply. They didn't have a lot of resources. And so it was the first time ever that they decided, okay, let's just sort of pick some sizes. We'll do like, small, medium, large. We'll measure people, we'll make the patterns, and we'll give people a bunch of these, you know, sort of factory sewn clothes, and they'll be kind of like, good enough. Previous to that, like, all military uniforms were actually custom made for the wearer by military tailors.
- [16:13]
Ruby
Fancy.
- [16:13]
Amanda
I know, I know. So, like, if you were joining the military, you would go see the military, Taylor, and they would make you your custom. Your custom uniform. And, you know, or if you were, you know, poorer, you might kind of make it yourself or maybe like, your wife would make it for you or something. So this was kind of the first large scale experiment of, like, does mass production of clothing actually work? And it did. It was like, well, so it was like. And the thing is, like, it was good enough, right? Like, things were not as finessed and, like, detailed as they could have been. Right. Like custom. But it was like, it was good enough and it was functional. Right. And it was efficient. So if for garments where you weren't concerned with aesthetics, like stuff like workwear, where maybe you had to, like, outfit people in a bunch of, like, you know, like boiler jumpsuits to work in a factory or, you know, kind of sturdy pants or something for doing some particular type of labor, you know, it doesn't really matter what it looks like. It just sort of matters, like, if it functions. And so, yeah, so this was actually like, pretty cool kind of cutting edge technology. So obviously, I feel like it's almost like it feels like it mirrors a lot of Stuff like where we are now with technology, where, like, things were being pushed that people were kind of resistant to. So initially, a lot of people were pretty resistant to mass produced clothing. Like, it felt cheap, it felt tacky, especially for women's wear, and these sort of more opulent forms of dress that were more about aesthetics and more about, you know, kind of looking different from everybody else and being made for your specific figure. You know, that was kind of an intimate relationship between, like, women and their dressmakers or even just women sewing their own clothes at home. That was something that people didn't really want to give up necessarily. So it was sort of forced on people. And the rise of, like, the department stores kind of by the early 20th century, really kind of gave way to making this start to feel like more of a luxury to own mass produced clothing. So if you think about it, you know, the experience of, like, going to a store and like, being able to see a whole bunch of clothes and pick from what was on the rack was pretty novel and pretty exciting. And it was really marketed as, like, this modern luxury. And we were also starting to see kind of like the end of the Victorian era, this sort of, like, sphere of domesticity that women were sort of confined to was starting to crack open and more women were starting to join the workforce. And so it was kind of like, hey, you can be a modern woman and like, leave the drudgery of sewing behind and just go to a store and just buy your clothes. And like, isn't that so cool and cutting edge and technologically advanced. There was also, like, so a lot of early ready to wear that you would buy in these department stores, especially women's wear was actually designed to be tailored. So it was made to be sort of boxy and shapeless at first. So you would buy it off the rack. It would be kind of like not quite the right fit. But there were often, like, in house tailors at the actual store that would tailor it to fit you better. So things were made with, like, a lot of extra seam allowance, which means, like, there was extra fabric on the inside that they could pull out of if you were a little bigger in certain areas or take more out of. So they were designed to sort of be garments that were like 80% complete, and you would add those final customizations, like, during the purchase of those garments.
- [19:47]
Ruby
That's pretty cool. Like, I wish that that still existed. Because if you buy a mass produced garment now, there is literally no seam allowance.
- [19:54]
Amanda
Totally.
- [19:54]
Ruby
Because it keeps costs down.
- [19:56]
Amanda
Yes.
- [19:56]
Ruby
And you would also, in many Situations feel embarrassed that you put extra work into it because the garment is so low quality to begin with.
- [20:04]
Amanda
Totally, yeah, totally so. And mass produced clothing, like it wasn't necessarily higher quality than the stuff that was being custom made. So, you know, around that time also, you know, we're thinking like early 20th century, like a lot of poorer women were feeling pressured to like leave rural areas and go work in textile factories and send money home. And so in a lot of ways, like those young female factory workers, they often became the perfect customers for ready to wear because they're working all the time and they no longer have time to do their own sewing. So it's almost this like ironic feedback loop where it's like, hey, we're not making any money. I have to go leave the farm and go work in this factory. I'm working in the factory. I'm doing like 14 hour days. I have no time to sew my own clothes. I guess I'll buy the cheap stuff that we're making in the factory and wear it, you know, so it's like it kind of like feeds itself. Like they sort of become the customers for that product, for that end product. So, yeah, and then when we're talking about that customization aspect too, like this idea that people would tailor things after purchasing that to fit a little bit better, that process actually kind of continued for a lot of like the 20th century. And probably by like the 70s, 80s and 90s was when a lot of production started to move overseas to cut costs. And at that point too, which we can get into a little more, you know, a lot fewer people were sewing at home and like knowing how to sew, that was a skill that wasn't being passed down as much. And so it sort of became pointless to include all that extra seam allowance or build in that room for customization. So like you said, they were like, let's just cut the seam allowance. We don't need that. We'll, you know, we'll just give things a quarter inch or whatever to like save material. There's also like, increasingly during that time period, we're seeing people or we're seeing clothing start to use more like cut and sewn knit fabrics. So fabrics with stretch. And so there's kind of less need for alterations when you have a stretchier garment because there's just a lot more wiggle room in terms of like the size of bodies that one garment can fit because it can stretch if you're a little larger, or it can just be a little looser if you're a smaller person.
- [22:12]
Ruby
Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, even in the span of my career in this century, I saw with each year that we were adding more stretch to everything with each passing year because it would fit more people kind of. Right. It would, in theory, lower return rates since people often weren't trying things on online. And you know, in the beginning it was like, well, you know, leggings, T shirts, maybe some like bodycon dresses and skirts. Fine. But then it was like, okay, now we're putting elastaine in like every single pair of jeans right now we're putting it in button ups now we're putting it in dresses. Now we're everything of all fabric types has stretch in it now. And that's not an accident. No, that's like a real strategic move that I don't, I don't really think, just as a professional, that it makes things fit people better and makes them less likely to return, just based on the data I've seen in my career. But what it definitely does is shorten the lifespan of those clothes because those fibers break over time. So it's like. So okay, you know, once again, like here we are now where like a hand sewn garment that is bespoke just for you is like luxurious. And we all dream of like having access to that, right? How did we get to this point where that is this major luxury rather than the norm?
- [23:39]
Amanda
Yeah, yeah, great question. So, yeah, it actually used to be like, you know, if you were very wealthy, you would probably have like a dressmaker or a tailor that you would go to that would like make all your clothes for you. And that was like, cool. If you weren't wealthy, usually like the women in your family or your, your mother, your grandmother, your older sister, whatever, you know, would sew the clothes for like the whole family. And so like, things would be custom made just kind of out of necessity, but you would be making it like in your own house. And if you go back far enough in history, like at a certain point, people were even growing their own fibers for that as well. So if you think about people who were like tending sheep and like harvesting the wool or having. Growing flax in their backyard or something and harvesting that and turning it into linen, like a lot of times households were responsible for their own textile production as well. So you were doing the whole process start to finish. So yeah, when we talk about why did people stop doing this? A lot of it was just this pressure from industrialization of these different processes for people to stop doing that and kind of hand Control over to these larger companies that were doing things faster and more efficiently and promising them, like, jobs, even though those jobs maybe, like, were underpaid or exploitative. But there was just a lot of pressure for people to kind of, like, part with those older ways of doing things and sort of, like, join modernity. Modernity. Modernity. Not sure if I said that right. Came out a little weird anyway, and I know. So I know that you've talked about this a lot on the podcast in the past, Amanda, but during the 1980s, the Reagan administration here in the United States, they cut a lot of home economics education programs to kind of focus on funding STEM programs sort of as part of the Cold War. It was like, we need more scientists, we need more math people, we need more tech people. And so home economics kind of fell by the wayside. It's really cool that you got to take it, actually. I think my high school maybe had a home economics class, but it was just an elective, and it was like. I think they only ran it, like, once a year. And at that point, besides, like, I was kind of making all my own clothes anyway, and I was like, I don't need that. And.
- [25:48]
Ruby
Well, also, if you were like. Like in a situation like that where it's an elective and if you're sort of on that, like, I'm going to college track. Yeah. You don't have time in your schedule.
- [25:56]
Amanda
Oh, totally.
- [25:56]
Ruby
Right. So it's like, who gets. Who takes these classes? At this point, it's so discouraged. I do feel really lucky. I wouldn't know how to do any of those things if I hadn't been forced to by the education system of the state of Pennsylvania. So. Thank you.
- [26:12]
Amanda
Yeah. They're, like, important life skills, you know, I think, like, in my high school, there was this perception that home economics was kind of like, like a throwaway class. Like, it wasn't important. It was something that you took if you, like, didn't. Yeah. If you had space in your schedule, you, like, didn't have other interests, you weren't pursuing, like, more academic paths or whatever. It was kind of looked down on as, like, for dumb. You know, it was like, a dumb class. Like, it didn't take a lot of mental capacity or something, which. Which is total.
- [26:39]
Ruby
Looking back, you know, like, these are.
- [26:41]
Amanda
Like, really good skills. I'm like, man, I wish, you know. Yeah. I wish somebody had, like, formally taught me, like, how to cook. I don't know. It just seems, like, very useful.
- [26:48]
Ruby
Absolutely. And I feel like, you know, going back to Reagan, the administration, like pulling that stuff out of schools. I. Because I have to spend so much time like thinking and reading and writing about over consumption and kind of like how we got to where we are. When I look back, like in history, I feel like there were two pivotal moments where what we know as late stage capitalism really began. One was like Post World War II, right. Like the boomer, baby boomer era, where it was like everybody was making all the things and selling all the things and looking for new ways to sell you things. Right. And then it was the 80s with Reagan, just even like the kind of advertising that we were allowed to see, selling stuff blatantly to children, like making cartoons that were about toys, to sell the toys. Yeah. And also I think really making these educational changes where it was like, okay, now we're going to fund very early computer kind of classes and things like that. And we're not. We're gonna pull back on these like life skills, which, I mean, this is depressing. But like, it created generations now of people who don't really know how to cook, who don't really know how to grocery shop, who don't really know how to sew or repair clothing or anything like that. And so what does that leave to people who live on takeout or highly processed foods? Right. That's great for these like big food companies.
- [28:09]
Amanda
Oh, totally. The meal kits, everything's like individually cellophane wrapped.
- [28:13]
Ruby
Don't get me started. Don't get me started. Yeah, those kinds of things. Right. Or people who like, they can't even. I remember reading this study a few years ago that happened in the uk and I don't know the exact statistic, but basically the majority of the people who were surveyed, if like a shirt lost a button, they would just throw it out because they didn't know how to fix it. And that's great for all these fast fashion brands because you're just gonna keep buying more stuff. And so I just. I get so sad when I think about this because I also think there was a concerted effort, in my opinion, in the 70s, just based on what I've read, to sort of start to stigmatize homemade clothing. That it wasn't as nice.
- [28:56]
Amanda
Yes.
- [28:57]
Ruby
As like profess, professionally quote, sewn clothing. And I think there's just like this perfect storm of like sewing, whatever.
- [29:05]
Amanda
Oh, totally, totally. I think another thing that like, did also play a role in that. And I've experienced this with a lot of students that I work with who are like in my. In my age demographic of like millennials whose parents were either boomers or Gen X who like their mothers often kind of rejected sewing as a home skill, sort of as a part of like second wave feminism. Like, there was this sense of like, that's not serious. I'm not gonna waste my time on these sort of like frivolous domestic tasks. And instead I'm gonna like go off and be a career woman or I'm gonna like, have this really, you know, high paying job. And that's how I'm gonna provide for my family. And I think there was, you know, kind of like, at the time it was like, seen as like empowering to like sort of reject those types of skills and be like, I don't have to do that. I'm gonna do this other thing instead that I have never had access to before. But it's also often kind of sad because I think it paints a lot of those tasks as like, unimportant or under, you know, not valuable. And it does make this, it does sort of create this reliance on like fast food and takeout and like single use disposable plastic stuff or like, you know, single use clothing even, you know, just like things being more disposable because there's just maybe this, you know, this desire to like. Well, I don't, I don't want to engage with that. That's kind of like old fashioned or fuddy duddy or matronly or something.
- [30:30]
Dustin
So.
- [30:30]
Amanda
Yeah, but we also. So another thing that happened in the 80s was there was a lot of union busting and.
- [30:37]
Ruby
But what a time.
- [30:38]
Amanda
Yeah, so in the United States. You know, the United States kind of has its own storied history of textile and apparel, like manufacturing industries. And actually a lot of it was here in Pennsylvania. A lot of it was also in like Massachusetts and New England, which is where I grew up. Up. So I actually have like some relatives, if you go back to like my great grandparents and stuff, who like, were working in those industries mainly. Mainly in like the textile industry in Rhode Island. So over time, kind of throughout the 20th century, a lot of that industry, like there were a lot of terrible things that happened. Like we talk about like the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire, which was like this horrible event that happened in the early 20th century when a lot of factory workers died in New York City. And that led to a lot of unionization and sort of solidarity among garment workers. So when we, by the time we get to the 70s and 80s, like, working in apparel manufacturing in the United States was actually kind of a Decent job for a lot of people, not for everybody. There's still exploitation, there's still sweatshops. But, you know, a lot of times those jobs were kind of decently paid. They came with, okay benefits, maybe pensions. And in the 80s, a lot of those unions were broken up. And a lot of that manufacturing got moved overseas to places that had much less strict labor laws in terms of, like, worker protections and minimum wages and things like that. So as that kind of moves overseas, clothing also becomes a lot cheaper for on the consumer end. And at a certain point, there's like sort of this calculation where even the poorest people can afford basic clothing because the price point has just gone down so much. And so it becomes less about, like, this thriftiness of like, oh, well, it would be cheaper for me to just buy fabric and make it myself. And more about, like, well, I have to work all the time to, like, afford food and like, housing and all these basic things. I really don't have time to sew my own clothes. It's cheaper to just buy what I need at the store. So we kind. There's sort of this, like, tipping point, I think, where sewing sort of becomes less about this, like, thrifty thing and more about, like a crafty thing. So I think in the past maybe 30 to 50 years or so, sewing has definitely become more of a luxury. So it's now it's more of a hobby that's practiced by people who have disposable income, people who have free time. And there also, there's the aspect of space. So sewing is something that kind of takes up a lot of space. If you think about, like, cutting out fabric, you often need, like, a large table surface. You'll need to set a sewing machine up somewhere. And considering that a lot of sewing projects often take multiple hours to complete, you're not necessarily just doing it all in one run. It's not necessarily like cooking where you're like, okay, I'm just going to like, make a pot of soup. It's like, okay, I'm going to do this step today, I'll do that step tomorrow. I'll do this other step the next day. And so then it's like, do I have space in my house to like, lay out all this stuff and leave the materials out? Or do I have to, like, clean up? Cause I'm using my kitchen table or something and like, put things away in between every single time that I'm like, completing a few steps on this project. So then that also becomes a calculation that people are doing of like, do I have the space to do this?
- [33:56]
Ruby
Yeah. And, you know, you touched on, like, you know, sewing now is. Sewing a garment is significantly more expensive than buying a brand new garment. Unless, you know, maybe you're using some secondhand fabric or repurposing something you have lying around. Fine. Or something you got for free. Of course, then it's going to be less expensive. But in general, if you go out today and you buy fabric and then you sit down and sew the garment, it's going to cost more than buying a brand new version of that like this mass produced. And I think, you know, one of the big reasons is that, which we've talked about here before, is that the cost of clothing is like, is too good to be true. It's too cheap to be true.
- [34:38]
Amanda
Right.
- [34:38]
Ruby
It's an illusion.
- [34:39]
Amanda
Totally.
- [34:40]
Ruby
Totally. You could possibly make a dress for $5. Right. And so it is like, if you are in a situation where you don't have a lot of money, it's gonna be a really tough sell to that person to say, you should just sew this yourself and it's gonna cost you 10 times as much as buying this thing. Right. I totally get that. And I think, unfortunately, like, something that we all, all of us within the slow fashion community need to recognize and let that change how we talk about slow fashion and how we bring people into our community is we need to. We need to recognize that there are cost and time barriers, among many other barriers that keep people out of this movement because they think they can't afford to be a part of it.
- [35:28]
Amanda
Totally, totally. And I think time is also a huge factor. Huge. If you think about, and especially I think, you know, I think this calculation is almost even more relevant for folks who are poorer or working class. But it's like, how much is your time worth? Right. If you think, let's say you, like, drive for Uber. And you know that, like, driving for Uber, you're gonna make like $15 an hour baseline. Right. If it takes you like six hours to sew a shirt, that's six hours that you're not driving for Uber making $15 an hour. Right. And that's significant. And so I think a lot of folks feel like, well, this isn't something that I want to give my time to. It's sort of like it's almost like I'm like wasting money by taking the time to sew my own clothes because my time is more valuable spent in other ways. Like, literally valuable spent in other ways.
- [36:15]
Ruby
Yeah. To me, sometimes Time is the resource that, especially in 2024, that most of us, we have the least of it, right? Because so many of us, I mean, how many different jobs do you have that you listed at the beginning of this convers, right? And that's so many of us, right? And on top of that, you might be caring for children or an elder relative or someone else in your life and like pets and just like all so many things, right? And I was telling you as we were planning this episode that I'd had a conversation with someone who had wanted to like have a conversation about the barriers to sewing and why it wasn't accessible to everyone. And I said, well, you know, like some people don't have our, don't have the money or time to do it. And they were like, what are you talking about? Like I'm poor and I sew all my clothes, all my kids clothes, etc. And I was like, well I'll tell you, like single parent working full time at my shitty retail job for years. And no, no community support whatsoever on any, any level. So I'd work all day. I would be biking to and from daycare to get Dylan. We would stop at the grocery store on the way home. I'd come home, make dinner, give Dylan a bath, clean up the house. It would be time for bed to get back up at 5 and do it all again. Sewing was never gonna be a part of that. If I would have had to sew my clothes or Dylan's, we would've been walking around naked because there was just. I could barely stay on top of like day to day life, right? And it wasn't because I was ever relaxing, ever, right? There's just no time. If it was a day off of work, we gotta do laundry, we gotta clean the house, we gotta do this, this, this. Like so much stuff, right? So time, I think more than ever is what keeps people from sewing. It's what keeps people from cooking. It's what from. Keeps people from being able to really live a more like sustainable way of life.
- [38:03]
Amanda
Oh, it's time. Totally.
- [38:06]
Ruby
Right.
- [38:11]
Dustin
Let's take a moment to thank some of the incredible small businesses who keep clotheshorse going via their generous Patreon support. Selena Sanders, a social impact brand that specializes in upcycle clothing using only reclaimed, vintage or thrifted materials from tea towels, linens, blankets and quilts. Sustainably crafted in Los Angeles, each piece is designed to last in one's closet for generations to come. Maximum style, minimal carbon footprint. Shift clothing out of beautiful Astoria, Oregon with a focus on natural fibers, simple, hard working designs and putting fat people first. Discover more@shiftwheeler.com late to the party Creating one of a kind statement clothing from vintage salvaged and thrifted textiles. They hope to tap into the dreamy memories we all hold. Floral curtains, a childhood dress, the wallpaper in your best friend's rec room. All while creating modern, sustainable garments that you'll love wearing and have for years to come. Late to the Party is passionate about celebrating and preserving textiles, the memories they hold and the stories they have yet to tell. Check them out on Instagram. Latetotheparty People Vino Vintage Based just outside of la, we love the hunt of shopping secondhand because you never know what you might find. Catch us at flea markets around Southern California by following us on Instagram Vino Vintage so you don't miss our next event. Dylan Paige is an online clothing and lifestyle brand based out of St. Louis, Missouri. Our products are chosen with intention for the conscious community. Everything we carry is animal friendly, ethically made, sustainably sourced and cruelty free. Dylan Page is for those who never stop questioning where something comes from. We know that personal experience dictates what's sustainable for you and we are here to help, guide and support you to make choices that fit your needs. Check us out@dylanpage.com and find us on Instagram. Yannpage Life and Style Salt Hats Purveyors of truly sustainable hats hand blocked, sewn and embellished in Detroit, Michigan. Find us on Instagram. Althats Gentle Vibes Vintage we are purveyors of polyester and psychedelic relics. We encourage experimentation and play not only in your wardrobe but in your home too. We have thousands of killer vintage pieces ready for their next adventure. See them all on Instagram. Entlevibes Tribes Vintage Thumbprint is Detroit's only fair trade marketplace located in the historic Eastern market. Our small business specializes in products handmade by empowered women in South Africa making a living wage creating things they love like hand painted candles and ceramics. We also carry a curated assortment of sustainable and natural locally made goods. Thumbprint is a great gift destination for both the special people in your life life and for yourself. Browse our online store@thumbprintdetroit.com and find us on Instagram. Thumprintdetroit Vagavan Vintage DTLV is a vintage clothing, accessories and decor reselling business based in downtown Las Vegas, Nevada. Not only do we sell in Las Vegas, but we're also located throughout resale markets in San Francisco as well as at a Curated boutique called Lux and Ivy, located in Indianapolis, Indiana.
- [41:46]
Ruby
Jessica, the founder and owner of Vagabond.
- [41:49]
Dustin
Vintage dtlv, recently opened the first IRL location, located in the arts district of downtown Las Vegas on August 5th. The shop has a strong emphasis on 60s and 70s garments, single stitch tees and dreamy loungewear. Follow them on Instagram vagabondvintagedtlv and keep.
- [42:08]
Ruby
An eye out for their website.
- [42:09]
Dustin
Coming fall of 2022.
- [42:16]
Ruby
So let's talk about some of the modern barriers to sewing. The first one we've talked about, let's go into it a little bit more, which is lack of education in terms of, like, knowing how to sew, which is not easy.
- [42:29]
Amanda
It's not. It's not. So, yeah, I think especially, like, when it comes to sewing machines and like, operating a sewing machine, I think hand sewing is something that can be done with like, fewer resources and is maybe a little easier to, like, pick up and learn. And it's something you can kind of do on the go. You can hand sew while you're like, on the bus or the train or something, but it's also a much slower process. So hand sewing, while it can be like, fun and fulfilling, you know, you can't like, knock stuff out as quickly as you would with a sewing machine. And when it comes to operating a sewing machine, I think, like, people really underestimate, like, how, how much skill that takes. There's like, a lot of nuance to it. It's almost like I almost compare it sometimes to, like, learning to type on a computer or something where it's like, after a while, you will build muscle memory that will help you to just kind of do things seamlessly and efficiently. But when you're just starting out, it can be really confusing. There's all these different parts that you have to remember, like, okay, is my presser foot down? Is my bobbin loaded correctly? Is my tension set up correctly? Like, there's just so many little pieces that all need to converge perfectly and you have to kind of understand how they work together to actually create a stitch. Sewing machines are also big and heavy, right? They take up a lot of space.
- [43:49]
Ruby
And they can be expensive.
- [43:50]
Amanda
They can be expensive too. So, yeah. And so like we talked about before, it's like, you know, sewing used to be something that was like a skill that was usually passed down within families. Most families, at least for the past century or so, would like, have a sewing machine, whether it was kept out or in a closet or one of those ones, like, it folds down into a table. You know, usually there was one in the home, right. And somebody in your family would like teach you how to use it. And it was kind of seen as a necessary life skill. Like it was a very common, like sewing machines for a long time were a very, very common, like wedding registry present. Because it was like, you're setting up your household, you need a bunch of things. Like you should have a sewing machine so that like when stuff breaks, you can fix it, or you can make stuff for your house, like if you need to sew curtains or you need to like hem your kids pants or like fix a hole in your husband's shirt, whatever, right? So that was kind of just considered like a standard household appliance, the way we all kind of consider it standard to have like an oven and a refrigerator these days. But now we're kind of in this point of time where like not sewing machines are becoming less and less common. A lot of people have been getting rid of them, especially the older ones, because they're heavy and they're bulky and they take up space. And so, you know, if nobody in your household knows how to sew, if you don't have a sewing machine in your home, like, how are you going to learn? Where are you going to go? Who's going to teach you? And how are you going to practice too? Because sewing is also a skill that takes a lot of practice. You can't just like do it once and be like, okay, cool. I learned. It's something that you kind of do like over time again and again and get better at. So I think if you don't have a sewing machine in your home and there's nobody there in your, you know, with you to kind of mentor you, it's very hard to get started. Yeah, there are places that you can take lessons, but sometimes, like we talked about, people are so busy. So if you have to go somewhere outside of your house to learn where to sew, finding a place that offers lessons or classes that work with your schedule can be really challenging. I do teach sewing workshops and I can say getting adults to sign up for sewing classes, even though everybody says they want them, is such a challenge, right?
- [45:53]
Ruby
Because we're all working so much and we have other responsibilities. And like, you know, your classes take place in the city, but like if depending on where you live, if you don't have a car, you might not have access to a place. The financial side of it, and it really has culminated in sewing sort of being a luxury. Like I remember a few Years ago, thinking, like, wow, it'd be really fun. This is before the pandemic. It'd be really fun for Dylan and me to take sewing classes together. And then I looked at it, and I was like, wow, this, between the two of us, will be like a semester at a community college financially. So maybe not right now. Right. But I still thought about then the pandemic came, and I would scrap that idea. But, but, like, it is expensive. You know, it is. And it's, it's not just, like, the education, but, like, what's the point of going to the class if you don't have a sewing machine at home?
- [46:41]
Amanda
Totally, totally.
- [46:43]
Ruby
Yeah.
- [46:43]
Amanda
No, I, I, I totally get that. And I think, like, when you talk about, like, yeah, it's expensive to, like, learn somewhere. Right. Like, I think something else that I just want to mention is that I think there is a lot of sexism baked into our expectations around sewing. I think there's a lot of devaluing of labor that is traditionally done by women. And so I think we often feel like these things like cooking or childcare or cleaning or sewing, for example, all these things that we sort of have historically viewed as women's work, women don't usually get paid for those things. There's this expectation that they just do them for free out of the goodness of their hearts, because that's just, like, expected. Right. And I think there's also kind of this prejudiced view that, like, learning how to sew shouldn't cost us anything because it's something that, like, you know, my grandmother would have taught me for free, or, you know, my, you know, my mom or, you know, whoever, like, would just make stuff for us for free. Like, there wasn't this expectation of, like, payment. And I think there's also this sense that, like, well, learning the skill should be easy.
- [47:46]
Ruby
Right.
- [47:47]
Amanda
It shouldn't be something that's hard.
- [47:48]
Ruby
It's hard.
- [47:49]
Amanda
It is hard.
- [47:50]
Ruby
It is hard. And, you know, it's not for everyone. Like, it's very straining on your eyes.
- [47:57]
Amanda
Yes.
- [47:58]
Ruby
There's a lot of hand eye coordination involved in it. If you have arthritis or other issues with your hands or your feet and you can't use the pedal if you're uncomfortable sitting in a chair. If you have, like, back issues and, like, hunching. Oh, you know, like, there's just a million reasons why sewing. Not everyone can do it. Oh, for sure. And that's okay.
- [48:19]
Amanda
Definitely. Definitely. And it's like, there are some accessibility modifications that you can make. There are sewing machines that you Operate with a knee pedal or a hand pedal or something. If you can't physically press on a pedal with your foot. And there's different setups that you can get depending on if you have certain accessibility needs. But those are pretty. You have to seek those out, I think. I think there's just kind of this sense that, like, yeah, there's this big. There's kind of a big upfront investment to, like, getting that all lined up. You know, I don't want people to be discouraged by us saying that it's hard. Like, it is a learnable skill. And I think everything's a learnable skill. And I don't want to just be like, it's hard. Don't bother. But I think, like, it's hard and just go into it with the expectation that it's going to take practice. So, yeah, I mean, especially learning how to operate a sewing machine, There's a lot of different kinds of sewing machines. There's a lot of, like, variations in the different kinds you can get. If you go to a specific sewing school and they have one certain kind of machine, and then you go to buy a machine, like, a lot of times people will end up just buying the one that they learned on in the class because the differences, I mean, they're subtle, and you can totally translate one to the other. But sometimes it's just. It feels foreign. When you're, like, threading a new machine.
- [49:36]
Ruby
For the first time, it's stressful. Threading a new machine for the first time is stressful. The good news is like. Like, now, if you want to. If you're struggling to thread a machine or anything else related to that, there probably is a YouTube video to help you, which is great. But I remember when I got my first sewing machine as an adult. I got it for Christmas. I remember it cost $100, and I was, like, literally never going to be able to spend $100 on something. So it felt like the most luxurious gift ever. It was a Kenmore, and it was like. Like a sort of mint green. It was so cute. And then I was like, oh, my God, I cannot thread this machine. The manual was terrible. It wasn't like, a manual is not how I learn how to do things, basically. And of course, then I couldn't watch a YouTube video to learn. And there was, like, a whole afternoon of me just trying to thread this dang thing until I figured it out. But now you don't have that barrier because someone probably has already made a video to show you how. And so, yes, that first day with your sewing machine at home can be stressful, but it's a lot easier now.
- [50:45]
Amanda
Yeah. Yeah, it totally is, I think. Yeah. YouTube is incredible. There's all kinds of, you know, great troubleshooting videos out there for, like, is your machine making this noise? Is it this model? And is this particular issue happening? Like, you know, you can really find a lot of, like, very specific information on how to troubleshoot your machine. I will say something to keep in mind when you're just learning. And I know this is so hard, but I feel like sewing is an ongoing lesson in patience. And even as a professional, I sew professionally, I get paid to sew, and I still seam rip stuff all the time. I still sew stuff backwards. I still make mistakes that are silly because I'm not thinking or I'm rushing. And so I think that is something you just have to be prepared to learn over and over again that things often unfold a lot more slowly than. And you're expecting them to, even if it looks super simple, like, oh, it's just this, this, and this. Okay, great. Now my machine tension isn't working or my bobbin keeps coming unthreaded. Like, there's always going to be something to troubleshoot. And so I. I don't know. I would advise folks who are going into it to just, like, try to stay optimistic and try to stay curious instead of getting frustrated and giving up. Because the more times you practice correcting your tension or rethreading your bobbin or. Or doing a test swatch first on your machine to just make sure that your stitch length is what you want, the more you're also just building that skill of troubleshooting, and the faster that troubleshooting process will get. You're not gonna never have to troubleshoot, but you wanna get faster at it, and you wanna get a little more trusting of yourself that you will be able to get through whatever hurdles come up.
- [52:24]
Ruby
I think that's really good advice because especially if you are new to sewing and perhaps, perhaps you got into it because you see people on social media whipping up all these things. It's all cool. You're like, I want to do that too. I get that feeling all the time. I totally understand that you're not seeing all the times they were there with the stitch ripper just, like, being so frustrated, right? Or annoyed or, like, sometimes you're like, sewing and then your nose starts itching and you just go off on a curve. Right? Like, these things just pop in, and that's okay. And I think it's just important to remember that. That, like, often the version of sewing that we're seeing on social media is this, like, da, da, da, da. Here's the thing. Here I am with the fabric. Quick switch.
- [53:07]
Amanda
Here's the thing.
- [53:08]
Ruby
It's beautiful. I look great. Best day ever. And what you're not seeing is, like, that took time, perhaps weeks. And there were times where that person was like, I'm gonna pick up the sewing machine, throw it out the window, or they stab themselves in the finger or all kinds of things. I have totally been sewing and cut my finger and gotten blood all over what I was sewing. These are all things that we've experienced. And it's. It's okay. Like, it just. I don't know. It's part of the experience.
- [53:35]
Amanda
Yeah, it is. It is. And I think, like, I, you know, I like to watch those, like, little quippy videos on Instagram as much as the next person where it's like, here's the fabric, here's the sketch. See him, see him, see him. Here it is on me, like, and it's like, I don't know. Yeah, it's, like, visually appealing to watch that. I think, like, our brains like it. Cause it's just like, ooh, I got a little, like, glimpse of this process. But they also. I think it's so important to just, like. Yeah. To stress that, like, those people are editing so much out. Like, yes. It's also they're good at video editing. That's a whole other skill.
- [54:07]
Ruby
That is. Right.
- [54:08]
Amanda
Being a good video editor and a good videographer is a completely separate skill from being good at sewing. So there's a lot people who are good at sewing, you're never going to see their projects displayed in that format. Because that is also just, like, as a sewist, I often forget to film what I'm making as I'm making it. And then I'll be like, three stitches from the end and be like, oh, whoops, I should have, like, made a cute little video about this. But then I'm like, I don't know. Do people need to see that? Like, is it maybe almost unintentionally more discouraging for people to just see, like, me, like, only the highlights of, like, me putting together this thing? Like, Like.
- [54:40]
Ruby
I mean, I don't know. That's a good question. Because on one hand, you don't want to bore people or turn them off of. Discourage them from sewing. Right?
- [54:48]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [54:49]
Ruby
On the other hand, the vast majority of people out there still Think that our clothes are made by machines and robots and that it's really easy, and therefore it should be. Clothes should be really cheap.
- [54:59]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [54:59]
Ruby
And sometimes I think the best seriously, for anything that you've ever seen that you were like, why does that cost that much?
- [55:08]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [55:08]
Ruby
The literally the best thing you can do is, like, sit down and make it yourself. Like, I mean, from like, making pesto by yourself and being like, oh, my God, this is like, I need so much basil. I need so many nuts.
- [55:21]
Amanda
Of course.
- [55:22]
Ruby
That's why basil. That's why pesto is expensive.
- [55:24]
Amanda
Right.
- [55:25]
Ruby
Sewing your own clothes and being like, oh, my gosh, how could a dress be $5 when it took me all this time? But these are, like, good things for us to learn. And I do think that one of the ways fast fashion has been able to just get away with selling us crappy stuff using a supply chain based on exploitation is that none of us. Well, the vast majority of us don't know how to sew. And so we don't know that. You just, like. I'm telling you that there are people who think that, like, the machine does the sewing for you, but that's not true.
- [55:58]
Amanda
Right.
- [55:58]
Ruby
It's like a tool. It's like, if I use a drill to hang a photo on the wall, you're not like, oh, the drill did it for you. Right. That helped me do it.
- [56:08]
Amanda
Right, exactly.
- [56:09]
Ruby
And I think that we need to, like, remember that, like, it's just like, scissors. Scissors don't just magically do work for you. You have to be there operating them.
- [56:15]
Amanda
Absolutely.
- [56:16]
Ruby
So is sewing. And I do think beyond even the sustainability wins of us sewing our clothing, or at the very least, repairing it when we can. Right. Those are huge wins right there. The simplest win is being like, oh, wow.
- [56:30]
Dustin
Sewing clothes is, like, hard and skilled. Right.
- [56:32]
Ruby
And maybe clothes shouldn't be that cheap. Right. I think that's a major win.
- [56:37]
Amanda
Totally.
- [56:37]
Ruby
But with nobody knowing how to make clothes, you're like, how much. How much time could it take to make a shirt?
- [56:43]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [56:43]
Ruby
I just watched an Instagram reel, and it took 30 seconds. Right, right.
- [56:47]
Amanda
Those time lapses, man.
- [56:48]
Dustin
Yeah, exactly.
- [56:49]
Ruby
And so, like, that's what I'm like, oh, maybe someone should have to sit down and watch you sew a garment from beginning to end. I know.
- [56:55]
Amanda
It's like slow tv where they follow the train, right? Like, yeah, right.
- [56:59]
Ruby
It's not like. And the thing about sewing is you can't also be like, I'm gonna put on a movie while I do it.
- [57:05]
Amanda
Focused some Some people do. I don't know how anybody does it. I have some friends that will like have Netflix playing. But I'm the kind of person, like, when I watch tv, like it, like whatever I'm doing, like, needs my full attention. I cannot split my attention. Right.
- [57:17]
Ruby
Mistakes.
- [57:18]
Amanda
I do listen to podcasts though. I listen to Clothes Horse a lot when I'm sewing. Actually.
- [57:22]
Ruby
Clothes Horse is popular for sewing. Yeah. I can do a podcast or I'm doing things like that, but I couldn't be like, and I'm also texting and I'm also watching a movie and you know, like, whereas if I'm watching a movie, I'm probably doing 35 other things. One of them is definitely not sewing unless it's hand sewing. And so, yeah, I do think, I mean, I think that there's this belief that you like put the fabric on the machine, you press on, you kick back, light up a cigarette and just wait for it to finish.
- [57:49]
Amanda
I wish.
- [57:50]
Ruby
I know. And so I do think it's important to talk about the skill and the time required in sewing. And for all of you who do sew your own stuff, like seriously show people that and brag about it and talk about the work involved in it because we take that information for granted and we shouldn't because most people do not know it.
- [58:09]
Amanda
Yeah. Oh, totally. I actually. So I have kind of a funny story along these lines. So I teach private sewing lessons. I do a much more limited. I offer it on a much more limited basis now than I used to. But maybe like, I don't know, 10 years ago at this point when I lived in New York City, I had a little like freelance side hustle called Sewing Lessons nyc. And I would teach people, I would give people one on one private sewing lessons like in their homes. And I had one student who had like a beloved shirt. It was like a button down shirt from like Express or like the Limited or something. And she loved it. And she was like, I really want to recreate this shirt. Is this something we can do in sewing lessons? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. But okay, keep in mind a button down shirt has like quite a few pieces. So it's not like a T shirt where it's just like front, back and sleeve.
- [58:57]
Ruby
I'm already like, buttonholes.
- [58:59]
Amanda
We got buttonholes. We got sleeves with like cuffs. We got a vent in the sleeve. We have a collar and a collar stand. We have a center front placket. We have, you know, like the front, the two front pieces are a little bit different because The Hlacket is a little bit different in terms. In terms of depending on which one goes over the top. Anyway, whatever. Needless to say, this is kind of a complicated project. So not only does she want to, like, fully trace off this shirt, she's going to trace it off, make a pattern from it, cut the pattern out of fabric, sew this thing out completely herself. Right. And this shirt probably cost her, like, 40 bucks. You know, it's not something that is like. So I think. So we start the project and it becomes clear, like, two or three lessons in that this is going to be like a month, months long project. And it was really interesting because I could kind of see that play out, like, that realization of, like, holy crap, this is so much more work than I thought it was gonna be. And we stuck with it. And at the end, she had a shirt that was basically the exact clone of her former shirt. But if you think about all of the time we spent, also she was paying me for these lessons. So it was probably close to like, $1,000, maybe more, over the course of, like, several months that we worked on this shirt together. But that was like. That's like just the reality of how long that process takes when you've never done it before. You don't have, like, a baseline skill set. You're learning how to do everything new for the first time. I think it was just like a really kind of interesting realization of like, oh, this is complex. This thing that I bought for $40 is the culmination of all of these different skills and all of these different. And there's so many steps. And it does make you think, like, well, how can that be $40? Even if all of these processes are, like, industrialized and we're mass producing them and we're not cutting out each shirt one at a time, but maybe we're cutting out, like, a huge stack of them at once. It's like they still need to be sewn together, like, by hand, by a person, by, like, actual hands on a sewing machine. And, like, your seams still need to be pressed open. And like, these are not automated processes. These are things that are being done by people in a factory. And yes, it's more efficient to sort of have this assembly line model where maybe one person is only sewing the collars and one person is only doing the buttonholes, but that still means there's somebody there operating those machines at every step of the process.
- [61:25]
Ruby
Yeah, I mean, unlike a lot of things that we can buy, like consumer goods, clothing has not been Fully automated. It just doesn't work. Yeah, you need the hand.
- [61:36]
Amanda
Totally.
- [61:37]
Ruby
Right? Yeah. So, okay, so we know that, you know, like, sewing is going to take some time and it's not like the skills, I don't know, the education around it are not always accessible to other people. What are some other barriers to sewing for people?
- [61:53]
Amanda
Yeah, so we did talk about this a little bit before, but I think, you know, talking about how much space it takes up and how much space you have access to, like, I. I am really, really lucky that I now have a studio outside of my home that I rent in a studio building and I share it with another artist. But I'm able to have a permanently set up large cutting table that's at a nice counter height. I've never had that before in my career.
- [62:18]
Ruby
It's luxurious for sure.
- [62:20]
Amanda
And I've been doing this professionally for 15 years. So it's definitely something where I think people will often take a class somewhere that is set up with all of that studio equipment. And then they get home and they're like, how do I recreate this?
- [62:33]
Ruby
Right, yes.
- [62:34]
Amanda
Like, most people don't. You know, if you have a large table that it's big enough for you to like lay out fabric, it's probably like your dining room table or your kitchen table. Exactly. Or maybe you'll get like a folding table. I've actually, this is a fun hack, but I've actually seen a lot of people getting secondhand ping pong tables to use for crafting because they fold up really nicely and they're like a nice height and a nice width. So if you're looking for like a temporary setup cutting table, check your local Facebook marketplace for ping pong tables.
- [63:02]
Ruby
Such a good idea. Such a good idea.
- [63:04]
Amanda
Yeah, Yeah, I think, I think, I think that's like a really clever hack and I love to see it. But anyway, yeah, it just like, it takes up a lot of space. So there's definitely like the aspect of like cutting out fabric. Like you want to be able to lay your fabric out flat and fabric is usually between like 40 to 60 inches wide. And most garments are probably going to take like two to three yards of fabric. So if you think about like, what that actual measurement is, a yard is 36 inches. You probably want a table that's like 72 inches long at least, which a.
- [63:36]
Ruby
Lot of apartments don't have.
- [63:38]
Amanda
Yeah, totally, totally. And then width wise, you know, you want to be able to, you know, lay your fabric out flat or fold it in half. And even if you're folding it in half. If your fabric is 60 inches wide, that's 30 inches from end to end when it's folded. So again, you're looking for like a pretty big table surface. Also, like ergonomically, ideally, you know, if you're cutting out a lot, you probably want something that's at like a counter height. If you're working on something lower, like a dining room table, you know, it might be kind of hard on your back after a while because you're bending down quite a bit. I used to cut out all my fabric on the floor, which is great for your knees and back.
- [64:16]
Ruby
Makes my back hurt thinking about it.
- [64:17]
Amanda
Yeah, probably one of the reasons I have like chronic back problems now. Yeah, I actually. So I actually used to live in Brooklyn and my, my sewing studio was literally just like a four foot square corner of my bedroom. And when I had to cut out fabric, I had this large cardboard cutting mat that I would actually put on my bed. So I would lay it out on my bed, lay the fabric on top of the cardboard, and then cut on top of the cardboard. So it was very hard to kind of like live around a project. Like I had to kind of cut stuff out all at once and then kind of pile it up in the corner because I had to go to sleep at night. And you can't, you can't like sleep under a bunch of cut out, half cut out fabric. So having like the right space, you know, to work with all of those materials, I think that's a barrier because we're also like living in smaller and smaller apartments. Like, rent is getting more expensive. If you live in a big city and you like share an apartment with roommates or something, they probably don't want your half sewn sewing project taking up whatever counter or table space you have for weeks at a time. So that becomes something that you have to negotiate. Another funny story. So when I was sewing out of my bedroom in Brooklyn all those years ago, I actually got this gig where I was altering Power Rangers suits for the New York City Toy Fair.
- [65:39]
Ruby
Fun.
- [65:40]
Amanda
Yeah. So I had. There were five stunt doubles that were going to be performing at the New York City Toy Fair wearing official like Saban Power Ranger suits. It was like the actual company that makes Power Rangers, like, you know, was like doing this performance. So yeah, so I had these five large Tupperware bins. Each one had like a costume in it. And they brought it to my house because that was where my studio was. It was like in my bedroom. And so I had these Five giant bins, like, piled up on the side of my bedroom. And then I had these appointments where total strangers would come to my studio, which was essentially my bedroom in an apartment that I shared with a couple who were definitely sitting on the couch while these people were coming over, which was just awkward and weird. And so these people would come over, I'd be like, cool, come on to my studio. And I put this folding screen up in front of my bed to try to make it look less like I live here. And I did these alterations. They were in my actual bathroom. Trying on these Power Ranger unitard things would have all these armor components. It was very silly. But yeah. And so. Yeah, so these five people came and just like hung out in my bedroom while I altered their Rangers costumes.
- [66:55]
Ruby
But there's a will. There's a way, I guess.
- [66:56]
Amanda
Exactly, exactly. But I just, like, I share that. Just to say that, like, you can even be like a professional in this industry and it's still really hard to find enough space. It's just like, you know, it's an affordability factor. Like in Brooklyn, I never could have afforded a studio outside of my house. So I just had to make do with what I had.
- [67:14]
Ruby
No, totally. I remember, like, at one point when Dylan and I were living in Portland, when Dylan was particularly young at that point, it was still like, crazy affordable to live there, which is why we live there. Like, I was like, this is literally the best place and time for me to be a very low income single parent. Like, I can get around on my bike and rent is affordable. And we lived in a two bedroom place for $530 a month. Imagine. Right. I know.
- [67:42]
Amanda
I don't think my rent is ever been that low or that we had.
- [67:44]
Ruby
Been living in like a studio apartment. Well, it was a one bedroom, but like, Dylan slept in the bedroom and I slept on the couch. And like, there was no sewing to be done there ever. Period. Right. We didn't even have a table.
- [67:54]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [67:54]
Ruby
But when we moved into this two bedroom place where everybody had their own room, I would seriously be like, okay, I'm gonna put my sewing machine on my dresser and kind of like just sort of sit, stand at it.
- [68:06]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [68:06]
Ruby
And cut things out and stuff on my bed. And like, that was just the best we could do. And once again, like, very little sewing happening in this situation. More just like alterations and stuff because, you know, like, there was no time. But these are real barriers.
- [68:21]
Amanda
Totally.
- [68:23]
Ruby
And so I think that's really important to call out too. But the other barrier, I think that is really important. We've already talked about, like, how a sewing machine can be expensive, difficult to find. Fabric is more expensive than you think. And it really points to how, once again, the clothing prices that we see right now are such an illusion. Right, so let's talk about that a little bit.
- [68:47]
Amanda
Oh, my gosh. Totally. So, okay, so, yeah, fabric prices will kind of blow your mind. If you've never shopped for fabric before, they will. There is also, there is like a wide range of fabric prices. So like, and I think there is sometimes also some pressure from the sewing community or even, maybe even internally where we're like, I want to use all natural fibers. I want to use all, like really nice materials. I don't want to use polyester. I don't want to use anything with stretch. Right. And it's like the basically like the more organic and sustainable and what, you know, natural your fibers are, it, the more expensive the fabric is going to be. True story, I think, you know, if you think about how many yards of fabric one garment takes, like, let's say you're going to make a dress that could take anywhere from like 2 to 4 yards of fabric, maybe more. If it's got a really full skirt, maybe it's going to be like 6 yards. And fabric can range anywhere from like, you know, four, like $1 to $4 a yard on the very, very cheap end to like $50 a yard and more on the more expensive end.
- [69:54]
Ruby
I have looked at websites where it's.
- [69:56]
Amanda
Like, okay, this is like this really beautiful, like all organic, like linen, check plaid in gorgeous colors. And it's like $60 a yard. And then you think, okay, so I need four yards of that. And it's like, huh, okay, so like, do I want to spend like $240 on fabric that I then have to cut out and sew for this one garment, you know, like, it becomes, yeah, it's real quickly surpasses the price of like most ready to wear, you know, unless you're buying exclusively like luxury and high end stuff. But a lot of times, like, even if you're just using cheap fabric, even if you're gonna use like the $4 a yard fabric, and let's say you need four yards, that's still $16. And like, sadly, you can buy a dress for $16 these days.
- [70:40]
Ruby
I know, I hate it.
- [70:41]
Amanda
You could buy three already made. I know, I know. And so it's like it becomes this justification of like, like, you ha. I feel like there is this point, there's like A point where it's like, you have to want it. You have to be like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to commit to doing this. And yeah, I mean, and that's only the cost of materials too. So I mean, it's. And sometimes it's not just fabric, but sometimes for certain garments, you might need zippers, you might need buttons, you might need interfacing, which is like a fabric that kind of gets fused to the inside, or sometimes it just gets sewn to the inside, but it makes certain parts of the garment a little bit stiffer. So if you're making things with like collars or cuffs or certain details where maybe like a little bit more body or stiffness is needed, you're probably going to need interfacing. You might need lining fabric if you're making a coat or something. And so all of those other aspects, which we sometimes call notions, those can add up as well. And you're going to probably also want matching thread. So it quickly becomes like an investment to get all of the supplies for just one project or one material. And I think kind of sadly, a lot of people do that calculation or start to do that calculation and just kind of decide like, it isn't worth it.
- [71:54]
Ruby
Right, right. No, I think. And I get that once again, like here we're also talking about an investment of time here. It's just, it's just a lot. And you know, all this stuff, you're like, these clothing prices don't make sense at all. I remember the first time I bought fabric for a project and I was like, whoa, wait, how much? And then I was like, well, you know, like the, the fashion companies that do like, you know, huge runs of styles, like they get lower pricing on fabric. Okay, maybe that makes sense, blah, blah, blah. But I will tell you, as a person who's worked in this industry for so long now, I want to assure you once again that like, the pricing of clothing that we're offered right now is an illusion.
- [72:33]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [72:34]
Ruby
That is just based on nothing being what it seems.
- [72:38]
Amanda
Totally. Yeah, totally. I think I kind of gained the most insight into that when I. So there's. There's a textile recycling organization called Fab Scrap that's based in New York. They were in Philly. Their Philly location just closed RIP really sad about. But you could like volunteer to sort through textile waste there. And a lot of it is like production room samples and swatches and stuff. So it's all stuff that's like pre consumer. So it's not, you Know, it's not clothing that people have worn yet, but it's. It's like stuff that was part of the design process that they are, like, recycling through Fab Scrap. So part of that is you're like, sorting stuff. And a lot of times you'll get these swatch cards and there will be the wholesale pricing for those textiles on the swatch cards. And it's very interesting. You don't always know what company they're from or anything, but it's very interesting to be like, oh, okay, this is like a cotton linen blend. And the factory pricing on this is like $10 a yard or $5 a yard or something. And sometimes it is a lot lower than you would pay as a consumer. Kind of like buying a couple yards off the bolt. Because if you think about it, the company is probably going to order it directly from the mill. They're going to have it made specifically for them, but they also get a discount for ordering, like, giant quantities of this stuff. So, you know, maybe they're going to order like 10,000 yards or something. So, like, yeah, three to five dollars a yard maybe is reasonable. Whereas, like, if you were just going to go buy that same fabric in a store, you know, you might pay like 15 a yard for it. So it's just. I think it's just like, kind of an important perspective to keep in mind of, like, one of the reasons. And I do think there's also a lot of, like, unethical pressuring of, like, textile mills to, like, do stuff cheaper and cheaper. And like, I'm sure there are, like, bills that don't get paid and people who get, you know. Yeah. Who never get their paychecks and everything. But, yeah, I mean, it is going to be more expensive if you are, especially if you're buying new fabric, you know, to buy it by the yard than sort of like in bulk from a mill. There are a lot of good ways, though, that I can. I don't know, some. Some ways that I can offer to look for fabric that is less expensive. Yeah, so there's specifically, there are tech fabric stores that are called. In the industry, they're called jobbers, and those are places that sell primarily what's called dead st. Which means it's usually extra stuff that mills produced or that factories had left over at the end of a production run. And these companies will buy up all of those sort of ends of bolts and sell them to consumers for often way more lower and reasonable prices than new fabric. So in Philadelphia, there's a lovely store Called Jo Mart. Jo Mart loves Joe Marc.
- [75:28]
Ruby
I know. It's so weird there.
- [75:30]
Amanda
Oh, it's very strange. Yeah, it's very strange. But I would say, you know, if you're in the Philadelphia area and you are looking for, like, I would say Jomar is, like, kind of the premier jobber in this region.
- [75:40]
Ruby
Definitely. They have great place for fabric. They also have, like, so much other weird stuff there.
- [75:45]
Amanda
They do housewares, clothing, shoes, handbag.
- [75:48]
Ruby
I wish we could go there today.
- [75:49]
Amanda
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, someday. Someday. It's a. It's an adventure for sure. Give yourself a couple. Couple hours if you're gonna go there. Something to keep in mind with, with shopping from a jobber is that a lot of times stuff isn't labeled. You don't really know what the fiber content is. You don't really know what the origin of stuff is. And it can be kind of hard to know, like, what you're buying, but often the price is so much lower that it's sort of like, you know, you're sort of taking a risk on the purchase. If you, you know, want to experiment, there is, like, something where you can do what's called burn testing to kind of figure out what the fiber content tent might be of fabric. Where you would usually take, like, a swatch very carefully, light it on fire. I usually do it with tweezers over the sink, just in case. Good call.
- [76:34]
Ruby
Good call.
- [76:35]
Amanda
Metal tweezers. Yeah, just like, light the edge with a lighter and kind of see how it burns. And usually if it. If it gets really, like, thick and sticky and melty and like, bubbly, it's made of plastic. Like it's polyester or nylon or something synthetic. If it smells kind of like burning paper and it creates. Create sort of like a white ish ash, like almost like your campfire. It's probably a cellulosic fiber, which means something that comes from a plant, which would be something like cotton or linen, rayon also, and like bamboo. Like, those are also produced from cellulosic fibers, so those will kind of burn. Similarly, if it's wool, wool is actually like a natural fire retardant, which is.
- [77:20]
Ruby
Amazing, which is crazy.
- [77:21]
Amanda
So if you light wool on fire, it actually usually will just sort of like sizzle and crisp at the end, and the fire will sort of self extinguish, and you'll get that, like, burning hair smell. So if you're shopping at a place like Jomar, I mean, don't, like, burn test in the store, because that's incredibly dangerous and rude and Rude. Yes. But you can always ask, you know, like, can I have a swatch of this? And then you can, like, take it home with you or, like, take it out into the parking lot and like, very safely, you know, just do a very, very small piece and kind of see what, what happens. And that can, at least it's not going to tell you exactly what the fiber is. Like, you might not be 100. Like, okay, is this 100% cotton? I don't know. But it gives you a sense of like, okay, is this going to be something that's like breathable, like a cotton, or is it like melty, sticky polyester? So that could be a helpful way to shop from those kinds of places and have at least like, a little bit of insight into what you're buying. There are also actually, like, surprisingly, Mood fabrics in New York City, and I think they've got one in LA too, which is kind of like a world famous fabric store. They're also a jobber, but they're kind of a more high end jobber. So you'll notice if you ever shop at Mood, a lot of the tags will be labeled with, like, even sometimes the factory that it came from, like, it'll be like, oh, this is like Jill sander, like fall 2022 or something. And it's kind of interesting to be like, oh, okay, like, I know what this is. Like, exactly what this is. You know, you can actually buy that fabric from that designer's collection that may have even been custom milled for them. So that's kind of cool. And Mood is really good about labeling their fiber content and telling you the origin of things and what things are. So another really great place to look for secondhand or cheaper textiles is Creative Reuse Centers.
- [79:07]
Ruby
Ours here in Lancaster has so much fabric now with, you know, whether it's like dead stock fabric or creative reuse fabric, sometimes you're going to be limited by availability. Right. You want to make sure that you have enough fabric to do your project. I have learned that lesson the hard way. That's why I'm calling it out. Caught up in the moment. So definitely, like, be sure you know how much you're buying. Here in Lancaster, they do such a great job of the creative reuse of labeling how much fabric there is, and I really appreciate that. But there's so much fabric at these places there.
- [79:43]
Amanda
So much. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. I think we have one in Philadelphia called the Resource Exchange, and it's like their selection is ever changing. So I think it's a great place to go if you sort of have like. Like have a project in mind, but maybe aren't being super specific about, like, your color or your fiber content or your fabric weight. Like, it's a great place to kind of go and see. See what they have. But if you're going in, being like, I need a 40 ounce bull denim in indigo with this specific selvage, it's like, you're probably not gonna find that. But if you're like, hey, I'm gonna make an apron, and I'm just kind of looking for, like, a cute cotton print, like, that's probably definitely something you could find at a place like that. However, if you're not looking for that bull denim, you're probably gonna find it. You're more likely to find it.
- [80:29]
Ruby
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [80:31]
Amanda
If you haven't decided you wanted it yet, it might be there.
- [80:33]
Ruby
Yeah, exactly.
- [80:36]
Amanda
But, yeah, so those can be great places to look also. Estate sales. This is kind of a weird one. Estate sales and yard sales. A lot of times, like, folks will pass away or maybe they're downsizing or moving and they'll have like. I think fabric is one of those things. Once you get into sewing, a lot of us tend to just collect a lot of it. I'm totally guilty of this myself. I've done like, maybe three. Three major fabric purges in my professional life when I've, like, moved studios, and somehow it all just accumulates back within like, a year. But, yeah, people, you know, people who are in these, who, you know, are part of these, like, creative hobbies and these creative communities, like, often have, like, an excess of supplies. And so a lot of times people are getting rid of stuff at, like, yard sales or estate sales, and that can sometimes be, like, the cheapest place to find stuff because people just want to get rid of it. And sometimes they'll even give it away. Like, there's even sometime there'll be, like, fabric swap events that might be hosted by a local sewing school or a reuse center or at, like, a church or a specific, you know, type of community. Fabric swaps, I think, are becoming more common. There's also, like, the whole, like, destash movement. So there's like, destash channels that might be, like, you know, like a Facebook group or something. It might be specific to your craft. Like, maybe it's quilting, maybe it's apparel fabric, maybe it's home decor fabrics. But a lot of times, people who do kind of tend to collect fabric. It's like, like, I feel Very willing to part with stuff as long as somebody is like, I'm definitely gonna use this.
- [82:12]
Ruby
Yeah. Yeah.
- [82:14]
Amanda
I think sometimes it's nice to get rid of it. Cause we just kind of want to see it get used. I inherited a lot of fabric from my late aunt who was a textile artist. And when she passed away, I basically, like, got her sewing machine and her thread and like a whole bunch of fabric. And it's kind of funny because, like, I still have a lot of it, but I have sewn with a lot of it. And I often think of her when I'm wearing those garments. And so it's like a kind of nice. Yeah, it can be like a nice way to, like, be connected and like, be a part of this community. And I often think, like, man, she would be really happy that somebody, like, finally made something with that. Yeah. Like, actually. Actually the blouse I'm wearing right now is fabric from her stash. So this little floral I can't see, but it's like a. Yeah, it's like a rayon print with these, like, kind of geometric, like bright fuchsia flower designs.
- [83:00]
Ruby
That's so cool.
- [83:01]
Amanda
Yeah. Yeah. So there's probably, you know, there might even be people in your family or in your community, in your neighborhood that have a ton of extra stuff that they'd be willing to part with for, you know, a home cooked meal or even just the promise that you'll use it.
- [83:15]
Ruby
Exactly. So much of this fabric sits in people's closets. I mean, I agree. I see so much of it at estate sales. Out here where I live, people are less likely to do an estate sale and more likely to do an auction. It's like the same kind of thing. All the sewing supplies that you would ever need, or if you're like, I need a ton of yarn and different needles, like, all the things for sure. And out here with so many of the thrift stores being run by the Mennonites, like, they always have a huge fabric section and they're usually really well labeled and sorted. So, yeah, there's like a. There's a lot of secondhand fabric out there. So don't let the sticker shop of fabric stores deter you, because what you'll find. Actually, this is just my experience with my friends and whatnot. I'm not speaking for everyone ever, but is that the people who sew the most actually go to fabric stores the least?
- [84:08]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [84:09]
Ruby
Right.
- [84:10]
Amanda
Kind of true.
- [84:10]
Ruby
Yeah. Because fabric comes your way in all these other ways. So just like something to keep in mind and like, also I mean, real talk, there are less and less fabric stores right now. I'm lucky where I live because there's so much quilting happening out here and because the Amish and the Mennonite population still sew their clothes and, like, don't go on online. There are lots of locally run fabric stores here, but that is not the case. And most places I've lived, you either had an option of, like, a fancy, schmancy fabric store or. Joanne.
- [84:42]
Amanda
Yeah, so, yeah, I think that's really true. I know, like, Joann Fabrics and like, Michael's Craft Store, like those kinds of places like Hobby Lobby, like, those, you know, kind of came in in, like, probably the, like, late 90s, early aughts, and like, a lot of smaller craft stores and, like, you know, smaller fabric stores, like, really didn't survive with that competition, which is really sad because I often feel like, I mean, if Joanne Fabrics is all you have in your area, like, you can go there. But I've noticed a lot of times the pricing at Joann's is way higher than what I would pay at a local fabric store for a lot of their apparel. Fabrics are like 15 to 25 a yard, which is kind of insane. Like, that's just so. It's really inflated. And the reason they're doing that is because they also have a ton of coupons. So they want to, like, encourage you to, like, shop regularly and, like, build up points and get coupon. Use the coupons for stuff. So they're basically pricing stuff high enough so that if somebody uses like, a 40 off coupon, they're still scooping a profit. So just keep that in mind.
- [85:43]
Ruby
Yeah.
- [85:43]
Amanda
Like, before you pay $25 a yard for, like, denim or something, at Joann's.
- [85:49]
Ruby
Get a coupon, hold out for the coupon.
- [85:51]
Amanda
Yeah.
- [85:52]
Ruby
Joanne is one of those places where, like, I would say when I think about companies that are really manipulating people via discounts, it's Joanne's, Kohl's, and Michael's, where it's like, nothing. Oh, and Rip Bed, Bath and Beyond. Yeah, but where, like, everything is priced up a ton. Ton. Because they assume you're going to use a coupon and then it will be like, an average price. And one example I have that has nothing to do with fabric is I specifically remember being like, you know what? We're gonna get a Soda Stream. Okay. And I was like, because we use. We drink so much sparkling water, and there's all these cans and blah, blah, blah, like, we're gonna get. We're gonna Get a Soda Stream. My friend Kim had one and she was like, oh, it saves me so much waste. Blah, blah, blah. So went on the Internet to look at Soda Streams, and I was like, oh, Bath and Beyond has it.
- [86:37]
Amanda
Oh.
- [86:38]
Ruby
For some reason, the same Soda stream is like $35 more at bed Bath and Beyond than anywhere else. Oh, why? Because when you use the coupon that you can get for signing up, it's then the same price as every other place. Hate it. Hate it.
- [86:53]
Amanda
It's. Yeah, it's a little scammy. You gotta be careful. So one more thing that I just. Or one thing that I think is important is when you do buy fabric before you cut into it, you always want to pre wash it, even if it's secondhand. Because a lot of times, fab shrink in the washing machine. So I've made many things where I was impatient and didn't pre wash something. And then I made a whole garment out of it, put a ton of time into it, and then I put it in the washing machine and it came out like a size smaller and it never fit.
- [87:21]
Ruby
Yeah, I think many people have made that mistake.
- [87:24]
Amanda
Yeah. So if you're. If you're new to sewing and you've never, you know, done this before, pre wash your fabric. I also suggest if you have a dryer, throw it in the dryer. Even if you never plan to dry it ever in your life, just in case you accidentally something someday throw it in, or your spouse or your housemate or your kid just, like, throws it in the dryer by mistake, it won't totally ruin the fabric. Like, you will have already sort of, like, shrunk it as much as it can possibly shrink from the heat. So that's just like a good. A good thing to keep in mind. And then also, I get asked this a lot by, like, people who are new to sewing or, like, new, especially for clothing. People will say, like, if I'm out at a store and I'm looking around and I'm thinking, you know, like, I just want to buy something. Like, I don't really have a project in mind for it yet, but, like, I'm in love with this print. It's so good, I'm never gonna see it again. It's dead stock. How much of it should I buy? And I think this is a really great question. And my suggestion is between two to four yards. Okay. Because I think if you just get one yard, that's very limiting in terms of what you can make with it. You're basically looking at Like a tank top or a throw pillow or some kind of jam. Not even jams.
- [88:33]
Ruby
Not even jams.
- [88:34]
Amanda
Yeah. You know, if you wear a larger size, like if you consider yourself in the plus size category, you might want to err on the side of like 3 yards just because sometimes pattern pieces are wider and they take up a little more space on the fabric. But I would say most, most things that are like kind of simple tops or pants or dresses are going to take something in that two to four yard category. If it's something that's got a lot of ruffles, a lot of decorative, you know, bits and extra pieces, you know, maybe you want five or six yards, but if you're just like, hey, I'm at an estate sale and they have all these great fabrics and I just want to know, like, how much should I buy to be covered for like a medium sized project? My answer is two to four yards. So.
- [89:18]
Ruby
Okay, thank you. That's good. No, that's really good advice because I definitely have been like one yard. I'm gonna get so much use out of this and then it's like still sitting in my closet because I'm like, I guess I'm gonna make a pouch out of it. So, yeah, it's definitely something to be mindful of, you know, and certainly there are creative challenges to be found with a bunch of smaller quantities of fabric. For sure. We're not saying you shouldn't, like, whatever, but yeah, very, very good advice that beginners especially often learn the hard way.
- [89:47]
Amanda
Totally.
- [89:53]
Ruby
If you're enjoying this episode, then this.
- [89:55]
Dustin
Is a great time to remind you that my work here at Clothes Horse is made possible by the support of listeners like you. Just like NPR and these great small businesses, please go give them your support. Blank CAS or Blanket Coats by Cass, is focused on restoring, renewing and reviving the history held within vintage and heirloom textiles by embodying the love, craft and energy that is original to each vintage textile. As I transfer it into a new garment, I hope we can reteach ourselves to care for and mend what we have and make it last. Blank CAS lives on Instagram at Blankcas and a website will be launched soon@blankcast.com.
- [90:45]
Ruby
Located in Whistler, Canada.
- [90:47]
Dustin
Velvet Underground is a velvet jungle full of vintage and secondhand clothing plants, a.
- [90:53]
Ruby
Vegan cafe, and lots of rad products.
- [90:56]
Dustin
From other small, sustainable businesses. Our mission is to create a brand and community dedicated to promoting self expression as well as educating and inspiring a more sustainable and conscious lifestyle, both for the people and the planet.
- [91:12]
Ruby
Find us on Instagram, Opvel, Velvet Underground.
- [91:16]
Dustin
Or online at www.shopperstshop velvetunderground.com St. Evens is a New York City based vintage shop that is dedicated to bringing you those special pieces you'll reach for again and again. More than just a store, St. Evens is dedicated to sharing the stories and history behind the garments. 10% of all sales are donated to a different charitable organization each month. New Vintage is released every Thursday@wearsaintevens.com with previews of new pieces and more brought to you on Instagram at.
- [91:52]
Ruby
That'S Ware.
- [91:53]
Dustin
St. Evens Country Feedback is a mom and pop record shop in Tarboro, North Carolina. They specialize in used rock, country and soul and offer affordable vintage clothing and housewares.
- [92:06]
Ruby
Do you have used records you want to sell?
- [92:09]
Dustin
Country Feedback wants to buy them? Find us on Instagram, countryfeedbackvintage and Vinyl or head down east and visit our brick and mortar. All are welcome at this inclusive and family friendly record shop in the country. Republica Unicornia Yarns Handmade yarn and notions for the color obsessed Made with love and some swearing in fabulous Atlanta, Georgia by head yarn wench Kathleen get ready for rainbows with a side of giving a damn. Republica Unicornia is all about making your own magic using small batch, responsibly sourced hand dyed yarns and thoughtfully made notions. Slow Fashion all the way down and discover the joy of creating your very own beautiful hand knit, crocheted or woven pieces. Find us on Instagram @republicauunicorniarns and at www.republicaunicornia.com. picnic Wear a slow fashion brand ethically made by hand from vintage and dead stock materials, most notably vintage towels. Founder Dani has worked in the industry as a fashion designer for over years, but started Picnic Wear in response to her dissatisfaction with the industry's shortcomings. Picnic Wear recently moved to rural North Carolina where all their sewing and accessories are now designed and cut, but the majority of their sewing is done by skilled garment workers in New York City. Their customers take comfort in knowing that all their sewists are paid well above New York City minimum wage. Picnic Wear offers minimal waste and maximum authenticity. Future vintage over future garbage. Cute Little Ruin is an online shop dedicated to providing quality vintage and secondhand clothing, vinyl and home items in a wide range of styles and price points. If it's ethical and legal, we try to find a home for it. Vintage style with progressive values. Find us on Instagram utelittleruin Is there a little bit of Italy in your soul? Are you an enthusiast of pre loved decor and accessories? Bring vintage Italian style and history into your space with the pewter thimble we source useful and beautiful things and mend them where needed. We also find gorgeous illustrations and make them print worthy tarot cards, tea towels and hand picked treasures available to you from the comfort of your own home, responsibly sourced from across Rome, lovingly renewed by fairly paid artists and artisans with something for every budget. Discover more at theputerthimble.com Deco Denim is a startup based out of San Francisco and it sells clothing and accessories that are sustainable, gender fluid, size inclusive and high quality. Made to last for years to come. Deco Denim is trying to change the way you think about buying clothes. Founder Sarah Mattis wants to empower people to ask important questions like where was this made? Was this garment made ethically? Is this fabric made of plastic? Can this garment be upcycled and if not, can it be recycled? Sign up@decodenim.com to receive $20 off your first purchase. They promise not to spam you and send out no more than three emails a month with two of them surrounding education or a personal note from the founder. Again, that's Deco Den.
- [95:45]
Ruby
We talked about how sewing is expensive. It's hard, it takes a long time, you might not have the space. We can be pretty discouraging here. So yeah, you know Ruby, tell us why people should consider would enjoy or want to sew their own clothing.
- [96:01]
Amanda
Yeah, yeah, great question. I know. I really hope we haven't like discouraged folks from it.
- [96:07]
Ruby
No, I don't. I hope not. I don't think we have.
- [96:09]
Amanda
Yeah. So I like, I will say once you get, once you develop a kind of a baseline skill set, it's very fulfilling to sew your own clothes. I think the reason that so many people love like posting their makes on Instagram or making those cute little videos of projects coming together is that it's so satisfying to have something that you made and wear it on your body. Like it really feels like like this statement of like autonomy and self determination. I think that's why I got into sewing and fashion like as a teenager. Like, you know, I was at an age where I was like, you know, kind of experiencing a lot of body dysmorphia and I kind of felt like I didn't really like know myself or have control over my image or how I was perceived, especially as like a curvier kid like in high school. You know, like you get a lot of kind of unwanted attention from people, you know, people kind of like sexualizing your body. And this, like, felt like a way to sort of reclaim some autonomy and be like, no, I'm choosing how I present myself to the world. And I have total control over everything that I'm, like, putting on my body and how it looks. So I think. I think that is like a really magical thing that, you know, people. People can gain a lot from just, like, psychologically in terms of like, confidence and feeling at home in your body and feeling like you're looking like the version of yourself in your head that you want to look like. I think it also gives you a different relationship to the clothes in your closet. I know, like, the stuff I have that I've made for myself, which at this point is like quite a bit. It's definitely not everything in my closet, but it's maybe like 30%. But, like, I treasure those garments so much more than anything I bought from a store. Like, I will go out of my way to take really good care of them. I will go out of my way to, like, repair them or remove a stain. They just feel so much more precious to me because I know how much work I put into them. And it feels like I have a relationship with that garment instead of it just being like, oh, like I needed a black cardigan from Old Navy, so I bought a black cardigan from Old Navy and then the sleeve ripped and I'm just gonna throw it out and buy another black cardigan from Old Navy, you know, so, like, there's kind of this, like, sentimental value, I think, that gets attached to the pieces that you, that you, that you made for yourself. And also, similarly, like, if you're making clothes for other people in your family too, like, I have some pieces, you know, not sewn stuff, but I have, like, some scarves and stuff that were hand knit by my aunt, who is a fiber artist. And it's like, I treasure those. I will never get rid of them because they're so special to me. Because it feels like a connection, you know, like, with somebody who's passed. So I think that that is another kind of really wonderful, like, meaningful aspect to it. Yeah, it's like you kind of understand how much work went into it and you understand, like, this has a connection to a person. Not that our store bought clothes don't have connections to people, but it's made so invisible, you know?
- [99:06]
Ruby
Yeah. Yeah. The humans are sort of erased from it.
- [99:10]
Amanda
Totally, totally. So, like, there could have been like a really sweet grandma who, who like, sewed that Old Navy cardigan. Right. But, like, I don't know. I don't know her. We're not.
- [99:18]
Ruby
We're not supposed to talk about her.
- [99:20]
Amanda
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think. I think that's just, you know, like, we talk about wanting to have sort of this, like, more wholesome connection to our food. Right. Like, some people will go out of their way to, like, shop at the local farmer's market, or maybe you'll go out of your way to, like, hire a local artist or artisan to do certain things. And I think, like, with clothing, it's like a similar thing where you're just saying, like, this is an aspect of my life where I want to feel connected to this thing, and I want to feel, like, rooted in it, and I want to feel like I have autonomy over it, and it's something that I'm choosing instead of just something that is, like, happening to me, like, the circumstances around me.
- [99:59]
Dustin
Totally, totally.
- [100:00]
Ruby
Yeah. I think that's really important. What about, like, the creative side of that?
- [100:04]
Amanda
Yeah, so I think that's one of the most wonderful parts of starting to sew your own clothes. I think a lot of the clothes that are out there nowadays are kind of boring, like, a lot of ready to wear, because they're just cutting corners wherever they can. Like, anything that's interesting gets cut. I. When I was in college at fashion school, I actually did an internship in the swimwear department at Sears and Kmart.
- [100:29]
Ruby
Whoa.
- [100:29]
Amanda
The design. Sorry, swimwear design. It was like the design department.
- [100:32]
Ruby
I mean, I have so many memories as a kid of getting my swimsuit every year at Kmart. Just saying.
- [100:37]
Amanda
Yeah. And it was wild. I mean, I think that was, like, the really. That was kind of the only time that I've worked in, like, corporate, fast fashion. But it was so interesting because we would have these design meetings, and it was like, all the people that worked there in design clearly wanted these bathing suits to be kind of cool. And, like.
- [100:52]
Ruby
Yeah, that's the thing. No one's like, you know what we should do is make something really stupid that everyone dates and no one's that fits. No one. And breaks on the first round. That's the saddest part of it all. It is.
- [101:02]
Amanda
I know it is. And so people would, you know, the designers there, like, would design these, like, really kind of cute collections that were, like, a lot of stuff for, like, teens and tweens. And then we'd be in the design meeting, and they'd be like, oh, sorry, you have those, like, plastic pony beads, like, on the bikini ties, those are like 5 cents each. So we're gonna cut those.
- [101:20]
Ruby
I've been there, by the way, everyone. Like, this is an experience. I know way too well when you said plastic pony beads, I immediately were like, they're getting cut.
- [101:27]
Amanda
Yeah, right. And it's like the cheapest. It was like, you know, it was like the bare minimum thing you could add to this bathing suit to make it like at all cool or interesting. And it was like, no, can't do it. They were like, this needs to retail for $12. So like, we can't have the 5 cent pony beads on the bikini ties. Just like, come on. But yeah. So, you know, I think like that. But that's happening kind of universally across the board at like a lot of fashion companies where they're saying, saying like, ah, lose a button here, lose a pocket here, like reduce this cool top stitching detail because that's going to cost a little bit of extra. And so the thing when you're making your own clothes is it's like you're not mass producing this. You can decide how much time you want to put into it. You know, for you to slip a 5 cent plastic pony bead onto your self made bikini, like, who cares? You can put 10 pony beads. Yeah, you can make the whole thing in beads.
- [102:16]
Ruby
Yes, totally.
- [102:17]
Amanda
Totally. Yeah.
- [102:18]
Ruby
And I mean, I think that's, that's like, to me, the fact that you can actually achieve the full vision that you were imagining is incredible because I, I'm sure you've had this experience too where you're like thinking about what you're gonna wear for like an event or just in general and you have this vision of the outfit and then what you actually are able to buy is like this watered down version of it and some. So as we are recording this today, earlier this week I did a talk for like an event in Berlin for fashion changers about AI and fashion, which I'm going to turn into a whole episode because the research was really fascinating. But one thing I want to tell you all that I'll go into more in this future episode is that more and more brands. This is going to really grind your gears, Ruby, so get ready. More and more brands are using AI now to, to just completely design the clothing. So rather than a designer saying like, I have this vision of this bathing suit and there's these pony beads and it's gonna be so sick.
- [103:19]
Amanda
Right?
- [103:20]
Ruby
They're not sitting down and sketching that out or pulling these ideas from their brain. Not that they don't want to. Not that they don't have the skill to do it or the talent. No, that's not why they're sitting down and they're being told, type in these prompts until we get a thing that looks like what we wanna buy. And they're doing that because these brands do not want to get accused of stealing designs anymore. And so I will tell you more about this offline, Ruby, because I can tell you specifics that I'm not gonna name here because I heard this information from sources who swore me to secrecy to never reveal anything about their identity on the air or in my talk. But these are people who work in design for these brands. They are like, they're not allowed to create anything. They are as designers now, technicians. Right. And so this is going to and is already making clothing even more boring than it already is. Right, right. And so, yeah, so, like, we're going to. We already think clothing is kind of boring and we often have to make a lot of concessions about what we end up getting to wear. Sewing does let you take back that narrow.
- [104:29]
Amanda
It does, it does, yeah. First of all, that's so upsetting.
- [104:33]
Ruby
Wait till I tell you all about it.
- [104:35]
Amanda
You're in a. I can totally see it. And I'm sure being downgraded from designer to technician comes with a pay cut as well. Or eventually. Eventually it will.
- [104:45]
Ruby
Yeah, eventually it will for sure.
- [104:46]
Amanda
Which is, yeah, just so disappointing. But yeah, I mean, when you think about, like, what details in a garment matter to you, like, maybe you want super deep pockets that can fit your phone and a water bottle and like a whole bunch of stuff. Maybe you want, you know, like a two way zipper so that, like, you know, when you sit down or something you can unzip from the bottom. Or like, maybe you have certain accessibility needs that like, are really hard to meet with certain garments.
- [105:11]
Ruby
Right.
- [105:12]
Amanda
You know, you can opt into all of those details. I know also, like, a lot of folks, not everybody, but like, a lot of folks who sew sometimes have like sensory needs where it's like, I only want to feel. Only want to wear fabrics that feel really soft against my skin. Or like, I only want to wear things that are cut in a certain way where they're not going to feel, like too tight around my neck or like too tight across my chest. And so you have complete creative control over all of those aspects, which is really, really exciting. You can also like, tweak the fit of the garment so that it works for your body and your proportions. So, like, for example, I'M petite Plus, I'm 5 foot 1 and I wear like a size 18 to 20. Anything I buy, even if I buy something from a plus size store that is like designed to fit, like my girth measurements, it's going to be too long on me. So I'm always hemming stuff or buying like the three quarter pants and wearing them as like full pants. So it's like, you know, that's just like something to. Something to think about is like, when you start making your own clothes, all of that, like, it doesn't matter. Like, you can alter a pattern to fit your specific body and proportions and it'll look great on you. It'll fit exactly as it's meant to. And you don't even have to think, think about the fact that, like, oh, I'm too short for this, or like, oh, this is hanging weird or hitting at a weird spot. This button is hitting in a weird place that I don't like. Or the pants are cutting across my waist in a weird spot. You get to reclaim control over all of that, which is really, really pretty exciting.
- [106:42]
Ruby
Yeah. And I would also say because many of us will sort of have this internalized feeling that something that we've made, made ourselves, isn't as good as something that we bought mass produced. Right. And I think that's imposter syndrome. That's like legit advertising working on us and being deeply ingrained in the folds of our brain. Right. And I want to be clear that, like, something you made yourself is so special and just as good, if not far superior to anything you could buy. So don't let yourself be like, well, I made it, so it's not that great.
- [107:15]
Amanda
Oh, totally. Totally. I have heard people and I, I never experienced this, maybe because I just started sewing very young. But, like, I've heard people be worried that, like, I sewed this garment myself. When I put it on my body, is it gonna just like, fall apart?
- [107:27]
Ruby
Totally. That's it gonna fall off me, like, and everyone. It's not sewn worse.
- [107:32]
Amanda
Yeah, no, it's not.
- [107:33]
Ruby
If you bought it like, mass produced. Yeah. But it is like, and I think it's like imposter syndrome. And it's that so much stuff in our lives is mass produced. Right. That you're like, like, who would ever just make that on their own? The first time I made jam, I was like, there's no way this will be as good as anything I buy at the store.
- [107:52]
Amanda
Right? Yeah.
- [107:53]
Ruby
Why? I. I don't know. Actually, now that you mentioned it Right. And then it was, like, even better. Right. And so we just need to, like, get past that. And that is hard because it is just, like, baked into us at this point.
- [108:05]
Amanda
Totally. Totally. Another thing that I've noticed with especially folks who are beginner sewists to our week, you know, still kind of figuring out fit and still kind of figuring out, like, what size to sew from and what fabrics to use. A lot of times people feel like, yeah. Like, their stuff's not going to be, like, as good as ready to wear. Or, like, it's going to be, like, really obvious that they sewed it themselves. Or they'll be, like, hypercritical of the fit. Like, they'll sew something up and they'll be like, oh, you know, it's just like, a little bit. This one seems a little bit off. I don't know. And you get kind of. Of, like, hypercritical. But I would like to just point out that, like, there are so many ready to wear garments in this world that are just a little bit weird. Just a little bit.
- [108:44]
Ruby
Because they're made by humans.
- [108:45]
Amanda
Yeah. Also that, like, fit badly or, like, there's a seam that's crooked all the time. And, like, we don't even notice. We just are like, no, that's machine sewn, which is not a real thing, but it's like, you know, that's made in a factory. So therefore it's, like, better.
- [109:00]
Ruby
I just had this conversation, Ruby, actually, with a client who was like, well, like, do you think that, like, people, when they buy stuff from me, are gonna, like, look at the seams and look for mistakes and stuff? And I was like, I want you to go in your closet right now and go through the stuff that you've bought from brands, and you're gonna notice. You'll be like, oh, okay. Clearly people do not look, because I didn't notice this until now. And I think that's what's important to remember. Once again, we. We get in our heads, like, this isn't as good. Well, I would say it's even better. Yeah.
- [109:28]
Amanda
It's so true. I often can tell if somebody made their own clothes, and it's not because they look worse, it's because they look better.
- [109:34]
Ruby
Exactly. Yeah. You'll be like, oh, my God. I've never seen anything that cool or beautiful or anything before. And I think we're so limited. I mean, you know how it is. There are years where it's like, I need a shirt, and all the shirts are off the shoulder because everyone's selling the same shit. Yeah, right. Like, we'll take back the narrative and make the shirt that you want. Right. You don't have to buy what they're selling us.
- [109:56]
Amanda
Totally.
- [109:57]
Ruby
Once again, when I say these things, I'm saying, like, I recognize that not everybody has access to sewing or the time or the privilege of it. But I'm saying if you do and you're nervous about people thinking that you are, like, poor or look bad, no one's gonna think that people are gonna be like, wow, that is so cool.
- [110:15]
Amanda
Totally. Totally. I got coffee with a friend the other day who's been more like sewing her own clothes, and she's wearing these very cool shorts. And as soon as we sat down, I was just like, did you make your shorts? And she was like, oh, my God. Like, how could you tell? And I. I was like, the top stitching is incredible. Like, you wouldn't be able to find that at a store. Like, it's just the details are just, like, too cool, you know?
- [110:36]
Ruby
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [110:37]
Amanda
Like, I just. Yeah. Like, you had to have made it yourself. So I just. I think, yeah, that's just, like, something important to call out. And, you know, also, like, wearing your clothes that you've made and wearing them frequently can help you kind of overcome those, you know, those setbacks or those self doubts you might have about the quality of it. Like, sometimes I'll make something. Something. I'll let you in on a secret. I sew professionally. Okay. And still every item of clothing that I make for myself, I hate it for about 48 hours after it's finished.
- [111:08]
Ruby
I mean, I think that's, like, a lot of things. Any of us who ever make anything will feel the same way.
- [111:14]
Amanda
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I often don't live up to my own expectations of what I want something to look like or I'll feel like something doesn't align with the vision or it's, you know, creating too much of a visible belly outline, or the shoulder fit is weird or the neckline slightly crooked or something. And, you know, and I'll be like, ugh, why did I even waste time on that? I can't believe I did that. Like, this is so embarrassing. Like, ugh. And, you know, and then I kind of, like, let it sit or, like, you know, let it cook for a couple days, and then I'll put it back on and I'll be like, oh, this is kind of cute, actually. And. Yeah. And then the more I start to wear it, the more it just starts to feel like, okay, this is like, a normal piece of clothing in my closet. But I think that's important, and I think it's, like, an important part of the process to just call out. It's like, even the people making those videos, like, posting their final makes, like, look what I made. Isn't it great? They may have also had a reckoning that you're not seeing where they had to confront the fact that maybe the seam was a little crooked. Maybe this part didn't press as cleanly as they wanted. That feeling of disappointment or that feeling of, ugh, I didn't quite live up to the vision in my head with this thing. Like, that's really normal. It's really normal. And, like, it will pass. If you just, like, give it time to pass. Like, give yourself some distance and come back to it, and you'll probably be pretty pleased with what you made.
- [112:27]
Ruby
Totally. Yeah. I think that's so true. And I would also say, like, sewing is fun, even though we made it sound really stressful.
- [112:36]
Amanda
It is. It is. It can be really fun. So I think there's also a lot of, like, sewing is my therapy memes on Instagram and social media media. Like, you'll see that shared a lot. Or, like, you know, like, don't bother me. I'm in my sewing room. Like, that kind of thing. And if you think about it, you know, especially, I don't know, you know, if folks are, like, introverted or extroverted, whatever. I'm kind of, like, somewhere in the middle. But, like, it's a chunk of time that, like, you get to spend alone, usually, like, away from other people, and you're not looking at a screen, which I think so many of us look at screens all day.
- [113:13]
Ruby
Yeah.
- [113:13]
Amanda
And when you're sewing, you're, like, really not. You really can't be looking at a screen because you have to look at what you're doing with your hands. It's also, like, it's really tactile. So you're using your hands. If you use, like, nice fabrics that feel good against your skin, like, it can just have, like, a. It's soothing and, like, a sensory perspective. Sometimes you're kind of using your whole body, even if it's not super active. But usually, you know, you're cutting stuff out, like, standing up, or, you know, you're sewing and you're kind of, like, moving the fabric through the machine with your hands. You know, there's a lot of, like, hand eye coordination that's involved. There's like. Yeah, there's just a lot of, like, sensory aspects, I think that can be kind of nice. I personally really like the smell of the iron when I'm, like, using muslin or cotton fabric. There's a lot of pressing that happens in sewing, so if you are looking to get into sewing, you should probably also pick up an iron and an ironing board if you don't already have one of those. Because really, one of the biggest. Biggest and kind of simple secrets to making your clothing look really professional is just press your seams as you're sewing. But, yeah, anytime I have to, like, iron muslin or, like, cotton fabric. Muslin is just, like, a plain, undy, unbleached cotton fabric. But anytime I have to iron it, just, like, there's. There's just such, like, a nice smell, and I find it really grounding. Like, there have been times in my life where I've been, like, really upset or really, like, anxious or whatever. And, like, I'll, like, just, like, be in my studio, and I'll just, like, start ironing some fabric, and I'll be like, oh, okay.
- [114:45]
Ruby
Like, yeah, no, I think that there is something, like, whether your thing is sewing or knitting or crocheting or embroidering or making your own paper or whatever, all of these activities, they are so good for our brains and our mental health just to do something that is away from screens that feels. I don't know, like, you kind of just are, like, so in the moment, and you can kind of like, empty yourself out. It's a really, really good thing.
- [115:14]
Amanda
Totally, totally. It really forces you to be present and engaged with what you're doing. And it's also kind of like solving a puzzle where it's like you're putting pieces together that fit in a particular way. You're usually following some instructions, so there's, like, a little bit of guidance and. Yeah. And it's cool to see something come together. I think I heard somebody else say this once. I wish I could remember who. But I feel like it's a very important part of this is, like, sewing is a chore that, like, once it's done, it's done, and you have, like, a finished thing to show for it. Like, I think so many of our household chores, like cooking and cleaning and doing laundry, it's like, you do them, and then you have to do it again next week. Right. Or you have to do it again the next day. Like, it's never really, like, done. You never get to just be like, and now I'm done cleaning, and I'll never clean My house again, it's only spotless. Yeah. But sewing is one of those things where you're like, okay, like, I made myself a dress, and now I have this dress, and this dress exists, and I don't have to, like, sew it again next week. Right. Like, I'll have it for as long as I want it. And when I'm done with it, I can pass it along to somebody else or, like, you know, alter it to be something else or whatever. But it's just, like, it's complete.
- [116:21]
Ruby
Yeah. Yeah. Which is.
- [116:22]
Amanda
And that's very satisfying.
- [116:24]
Ruby
Like you said, unlike anything else in our lives. Right. So for people who have never sewn before or curious about it, how do you recommend getting started on sewing?
- [116:35]
Amanda
Yeah, great question. I do think so. I used to teach kids sewing classes at this, like, really sweet little sewing school in New Jersey. I don't work there anymore. But I will say, like, teaching children and teaching adults is very different because children will just go for it. Like, they have very few reservations. They are not really, like, expecting to be great at something when they start out because they're still kind of in this, like, learning phase of life, I think. So there's a lot of, like, well, I'm just going to throw my all at this, and we'll try it. And even if it doesn't come out great, I'm going to be really proud of it because I made a thing. Whereas adults tend to get. I think, like, a lot of adults, it's like, we work. Usually we work in a field where we've already developed a lot of competency. And we're used to being good at things. Right. Because we only do what we're good at for the most part. Right. Like, so I think learning can be really quite challenging for adults because you have to kind of have the humility to, like, be bad at something for a little bit. So, you know, I will say, like, just keep that in mind. If you're an adult who's looking to learn how to do something new for the first time, like, it's gonna be. You're not gonna be great at it. Right. You're not the bat, probably. And that's okay. It's totally okay. It's totally okay. It's just about starting. It's like, if you don't start today, like, when are you gonna start? Because it's gonna take time. Like, I. And I think people say this with businesses, too. Like, starting a business, right? It's like, people will put off doing it. Cause they're like, well, I'm worried I'm not gonna be good at at it. But it's like, think of all the time you're wasting. Like, you can. You can start now and be bad at it for a couple years, and you'll get better at it. I say, as somebody who lives that. But it's the same with sewing. It's like, you need to start somewhere. So why not start now and just like, start putting in those years of building skills to get to where you want to go. So in terms of where to learn, we have like, local sewing schools or craft centers. A lot of times, if you do have, like, a local, local fabric store or a local sewing machine store, a lot of times they'll offer classes on, like, how to use machine, how to thread it, you know, how to get started. I occasionally teach, like, beginner sewing classes in my studio in Germantown, Philadelphia. So if you're local, you can. You can check that out. There's also a whole bunch of other sewing schools, like, in my area that all kind of have different areas of expertise. So some of them teach like, garments and fashion. Some teach more like home decor or like, they special specialize in children's classes. So look up, you know, what you're. What you're looking to learn and see if there's any, like, local small businesses in your area. Because usually the kinds of people who start those businesses really like to teach, and they're pretty good at it, you know, So I think it's like a good. A good place to start. Also, sometimes local libraries will offer sewing classes. I know that a lot of libraries have budgets for, like, community programming type stuff. So if sewing is something that you want to see, it can always couldn't hurt for you to, like, reach out to your library. And even if that's not something they're offering, you could say, like, hey, is this something you ever will offer? Like, just, I'm interested. There's people in my community that would be interested. You can also look for, like, your local art or design school or community college. A lot of times places that teach, you know, that have, like, fashion or costume design or textile programs will also also have continuing ed programs. So that can be a great place to learn. I used to teach for the continuing education program at Moore College of Art and Design, which is here in Philadelphia, and they have a fashion program. So this was a class that was just for, like, you didn't have to be in the program. You could just be a member of the general public in the area who Just wanted to learn pattern making and you could take this continuing education class. So that kind of thing exists as well. Well, yeah. And again, just like make sure to be specific about what you want to learn because different places will have different specialties. So I know like, there's a great. There's a couple other sewing schools, like in Philadelphia that are like quilting specific. And so if you're really looking to get into quilting, you're going to want to learn from quilters, right? I don't really want to teach you quilting because it's not something I have like a lot of competency with. But there are people who like, that is their skill set. You know, my skill set is mostly garments and like apparel construction. But then there's also people who like specialize in costume or specialize in children's wear or specialize in home decor. So there's kind of all these niches. Like within. Yeah, like within sewing. So figure out, you know, what you want to put your energy into for start. Just to start out. You can also find a teacher who offers private lessons if you want to do like one on one assistance. I often have people reach out to me that say, like, I don't really know if I'd be comfortable in a class setting. I feel like I'm maybe more of a slower learner. I want more hand holding, I want more one on one instruction. And so, you know, I'm happy to work with those students on like a one on one, like hourly basis. And it's just kind of like music lessons, right? Like, if you were going to learn guitar, you wouldn't just take one lesson, right? You would probably try to go like, yeah, like you would probably go a couple of times at least to like develop kind of a baseline. So I do try to like tell people that like, that is pretty important. Repetition is key. Like, taking one class can be great if you're just like, okay, I can, I can get on my way. I just need to know how to thread this machine, right. Or like, I can get on my way. I just need to know how to like lay out this pattern. So if it's like a one off, that's totally fine. But I think the way to build skill is to really, really keep practicing over time. Try to find somebody who you vibe with. This is pretty important too. You know, I feel very lucky that like the students that I work with are very wonderful and like, I feel like it's usually, you know, usually the people that find me are looking for something very specific. Whether it's like a size and gender inclusive approach to sewing or you know, a specific kind of like hand holding and instruction that I can offer. But like, if you want someone who's going to teach you how to make a very, you know, like pillows for your couches or something, or is going to teach you upholstery or something, like, find, find somebody with that skill set and find somebody who you feel like you can spend a couple hours with, you know, Because I think, I think that that's important. Like, especially everybody's got different learning styles. I don't know if you've ever taken like a music lesson from somebody who you just like, did not like, but it can be awful.
- [123:13]
Ruby
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's the same like finding a therapist, you know.
- [123:16]
Amanda
Totally.
- [123:17]
Ruby
Either it works or it doesn't. Yeah, yeah.
- [123:19]
Amanda
And be.
- [123:20]
Ruby
Be okay with that.
- [123:21]
Amanda
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So, yeah. And then just, yeah. Be prepared to take more than one lesson. I think that's kind of like the hardest part for people. Cause it is a financial investment. I totally get that. But like, you know, if I think back to like that student that wanted to recreate a shirt and that we worked together for like months and months, do this project, like think how much of a skill and like how much perspective she came out of that experience with. And like, even though it was a lot of money, it's like it was like probably like a whole practically like a whole semester's worth of like one on one instruction, you know, so if you think about it in that regard of like, how much would you pay if you were to take this class at a university? Or how, you know, it's like, it's kind of, I don't know, like it's not valueless. Is what I'm trying to say is it's like what you will get out of it is a deeper understanding of the skills. You'll get more of these very specific and nuanced aspects of the skills that will help inform your approach for years to come. So that's also valuable. Yeah. I would also say if you are going to take private lessons, come to the lesson with a plan or goal for the projects you want to work on. Sometimes people will just be like, I want to learn how to sew. And it's like, okay, what do you want to sew? And they're like, I don't know. So like, yeah, think about, you know, think about like what kind of stuff you want to make. Like, even if it's like your high lofty pie in the sky. Goal of, like, I want, you know, three years from now, I want to make my own wedding dress or I want to reupholster a couch or, you know, make gifts for my whole family or something. Like, having that can just help the instructor kind of tailor the lesson to what you want, actually want, so that you don't feel like you're wasting your time learning stuff that doesn't feel useful to you. And then also, it's pretty typical with private lessons that you are responsible for bringing your own fabric and sewing patterns. I don't, you know, I can provide equipment, but I can't provide materials.
- [125:24]
Ruby
So that makes sense. Yeah. And I would just be sure to ask all those questions in advance before you show up.
- [125:29]
Amanda
Totally.
- [125:30]
Ruby
Yeah. Thank you so much to Ruby for spending approximately 100 hours with me. She'll be back, like I said, next week to give you advice on finding a secondhand sewing machine. She's very passionate about this. It was very educational for me, too. She'll talk to you about how to select sewing patterns and so much more. We'll also talk about her own line of Petite plus patterns, Starling Petite Plus. And I know that this is something that some of you are looking for because you have sent me DMs looking for them. So go check out all of Ruby's stuff. She also offers a variety of pattern making workshops and even pattern development services. I'll share all her info in the show notes so you can go check it out and give her your support. All right, this is a long episode. I'm not going to give you a whole spiel at the end, a whole pep talk, because I know you're probably tired of listening. So I'm just going to wrap up this week's episode here because, you know, it's pretty long. If you have more thoughts or advice to share about sewing, you can send it my way via email to amandaosehorse World. You can send an email or an audio message that you've recorded on your phone. One thing that Ruby and I discussed, which might be coming next week, but might be coming in December, depending on my final editorial decisions, is how the world of sewing can be more inclusive and welcoming and how we can get more people into sewing and sharing that education without burning ourselves out. So if you have thoughts on that, I would love to hear that. Send it my way and we can include it in next week's episode. All right, well, thanks for listening to another episode of clotheshorse. Written, researched, edited, all the things by me. Amanda Lee McCarty if you like I said at the beginning of this episode, if you like what you hear, please leave a rating Review of course, subscribe and most importantly, tell your friends if you'd like to support my work financially, there are many ways you can do that. You can find them in the show notes, you can find them at closehorsepodcast. And you can find them in my bio on Instagram. Once again, Merch is available at the@closehorsepodcast.com all orders have to be in before the 27th or you have to wait until I come back from Japan at the end of November to get your order. And thanks as always to the wonderful, the fabulous, the lovely Mr. Dutton, Travis White, who had an amazing little tour with his band, American Motors Group. Their album is out now. If you want to check, check it out. And he is home now, which is how we're able to have an episode this week. So thank you, Dustin, and thank you to all of you. I'll see you all next week. Bye.