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- [00:00]
Amanda
I love to cook. I think the thing I love most about cooking is the instant gratification of it all. Like you have something right there that you get to eat and enjoy and you get to say, like, I finished it right, it's done, I did it. And there's also this like mad scientist energy of combining heat with sweet and fat and ending up hopefully with something awesome. And, and I like that it can be as creative as you want it to be. So almost every night I cook a full on dinner. And this work is motivated by a few things. Avoiding the packaging waste and the cost of takeout. The overall health implications of packaged and convenience food. The very needed break from desk work. Back before clothes horse cooking dinner was how I transitioned from my workday to relaxing until bedtime. And now usually I work, work, cook dinner and get back to work. But it's still, it's a nice break for my brain to do something different. And that said, cooking isn't relaxing per se. I mean, neither is gardening or having an aquarium or all these other things that people say are relaxing but really are just a time to do something different with our brains. And like these things, cooking is work. And sure, when it comes to cooking, the stakes are lower than most projects. There are still potential negative outcomes. For example, you could straight up set your hair on fire, which did happen to me a few years ago. And for those of you who play the Sims and you wonder why the Sims are always so terrible at dealing with kitchen fires, well, let me tell you from my firsthand experience that it turns out their reactions are kind of scarily accurate to what happened when Dustin and I were both in our tiny kitchen in Portland and my hair and dress were literally burning. There was a lot of flailing and screaming until I pushed Dustin out of the way and stuck my head under a running faucet. Fire is very scary. The thing about cooking, beyond the risk of burning up your hair, is that it's kind of a masterclass in multitasking. You're doing a lot of different things at one time and you're also managing a lot of information and you're also doing a lot of reacting, right? So it's just a lot is going on for your brain. I mean, when it's a full on holiday dinner party kind of situation, you know, you're managing different cooking times and prepping different items and trying to figure out what can fit in the oven when what needs to go on the stove, what needs to be refrigerated. And then you're also like setting the table and taking out the trash and managing the dirty dishes. It's super exhausting. But even just like a regular meal, there's a lot going on there. Like, one meal I make pretty regularly is this pad Thai recipe by the minimalist baker. I've been making it for years. I've made it so many times that, well, for one, I haven't memorized. But I also have my own customizations. Like, I air fry the tofu first. I add more spice and extra peanut butter along with, like, a ton of broccoli. I am that person who will look for a way to jam more broccoli into just about anything. So be warned if you ever eat at my house. But beyond the innovation of, like, tweaking recipes, there's a lot going on at the same time, right? The tofu's in the air fryer. I'm cooking rice noodles. I'm mixing up the sauce. I'm stir frying the vegetables. I'm also probably. Because this is how I roll, I'm probably loading the dishwasher at the same time, too, and wiping off the counters and cleaning out the fridge and doing any number of things. And I can all of these things at once because I know the recipe, and I'm used to juggling all of these moving parts at one time. Everything feels balanced and manageable to me, even though to an outsider, it might be like, oh, my God, how are you doing so many things at one time? If you know, you know. But you also know if you know that one added complication can make it all overwhelming and everything sort of falls apart. Like, let's say something does happen that makes it just a little bit more intense. Like, I spill the tea I'm drinking on the floor. Now everything is out of whack. I have to clean the floor. So I can't alternate between stirring the vegetables and monitoring the rice noodles. The vegetables might burn. The noodles might overcook. Everything could be ruined. Because if I don't have more rice noodles, well, then the whole meal is ruined, and then there's nothing to eat for dinner. And also, I've just wasted all of these ingredients. And these are the kinds of things that'll be going through my mind in a situation like this. Like, what am I gonna do? Everything is falling apart, and this sense of, like, panic and doom will set in and sort of anger at myself for spilling that tea, probably anger at Dustin for not coming downstairs to help me. And then it's just like, I can't function. Like, where do I even start, do I clean up the floor first? Do I check on the noodles first? Do I stir the vegetables first? I'm not even going to think about the tofu, because it seems safe over there in the air fryer. But if I really want to spiral, I could also wonder, hmm, did I set the time and temperature correctly? Should I be checking on that tofu? How do I work this into what I'm doing right now? Right? So here I am. I'm panicking. There's tea all over the floor. Things are potentially burning. Noodles are turning into mush. Tofu is turning into a brick. If I could just take 30 seconds to think it through, which does feel like a lot in the moment, my perspective can change, because suddenly I can see what I can do. I can see other potential outcomes. Like, for one, the noodles might not be overcooked. I could take a second to turn them off before I clean the floor. I could take the wok off the burner so the vegetables don't burn. And then I could clean the floor. If the rice noodles are already overcooked, I could make some rice, and we could just have a stir fry. If the vegetables are burned well, we still have tofu and sauce. So I have the start of a meal right there. And if the tofu is burned well, we can eat leftovers or quesadillas or any number of other things that could be thrown together pretty fast. And before I did that, I could clean up the floor. The point is, despite all of these questions, all these variables that I'm trying to juggle, all hope is not lost. I have the ability to change the trajectory of the situation and save dinner. But in order to do that, I need to have an accurate view of the current situation. You know, the status of the noodles, the vegetables, the tofu. And I also have to have clear ideas about what I can do to fix things. If everything truly has gone awry. I need to know what else I have in the pantry and in the refrigerator. I need to know how much time I have. I need to know if Dustin can come downstairs to help. Like, maybe he can mop the floor while I stir fry the vegetables. There. There are many solutions here, right? I also have to be engaged in wanting to improve the situation. I could be sitting there on the floor surrounded by spilled tea, and I could just say, fuck it, dinner's ruined. We go to bed hungry. I'm gonna mop this floor, and that's it. Or I could say, hey, we need to eat. Let's figure this Out. Both are a decision. I can be a dinner doomer or a dinner optimist. Well, my friends, this is not a podcast about cooking. And all of this cooking talk was really. It was really an elaborate metaphor to what we are experiencing right now in 2025. We are cooking that pad Thai, and we just spilled tea all floor. And, yeah, you know what? We did put the wrong timer on the air fryer. You know, let's just take it a step further. Somehow the power went out, too. So now the stove and the air fryer aren't working. I don't know. We are in extreme overload of bad. There's a lot of news to digest. The news cycle is crazy fast. Things can change within 12 hours. You know, example, all of the tariff stuff over the last week, it's really hard to suss out reality from fiction. And we don't know what we can do to help because there are too many things to worry about. And so it's hard to be okay right now, but it sure is easy to be overwhelmed, frightened, angry, trapped in a sense of powerlessness. And the pad Thai is burned to all hell. So this week, we're going to talk about how to be okay. How to manage the flow of accurate information into your life, how to take care of yourself, how to talk to people online, and how all of us can help out in a wide variety of ways. So, Julie, if you still listen to Clothesforce, you're probably going to want to skip this episode because we're barely going to talk about clothes. But for the rest of us, let's get down to some important business. Welcome to Clothes Horse, the podcast that really did briefly consider taking up some smoking cigarettes last week. That's just how stressed out I was. And then I was like, ew, I would smell so gross. Then I was like, oh, and people. People get into vaping now, right? They don't get into cigarettes. And then I was freaked out about all the plastic waste, and then I got kind of sad, decided maybe I wouldn't smoke anything. And so instead, I read a book. And you know what? It helped. It was a fiction book. It was fun. I had a great time. Anyway, I'm your host, Amanda, and this is episode 226. We're going to be talking about how to be okay whether you're facing fascism, climate change, plastic pollution, the fast fashion crisis, or all of these at once. In fact, how about just a show of hands for those of us who are dealing with all of this at one time? Can I raise two hands. It feels super extra right now. So before you listen to this episode, if you have not listened to the episode I put out a few weeks ago about Gymerism, I highly recommend it because I think these two nest together nicely. And we're going to have more conversations throughout this year about how we can be okay, how we can have impact, how we can stay motivated and optimistic and all of these other things. But I feel like these two are a great way to deal with what's happening right now in the world. So listen, you're not going to be shocked to hear that I am what they call a chronically online person, which means I spend a lot of time reading the Internet and specifically reading, like, I rarely watch videos. I just don't have patience for it unless I'm reading the captions and I have it on like two times speed. That's how I roll. Okay? I am resistant to TikTok addiction because of this. Like, it just doesn't do it for me. But man, I am reading a ton of news sites and blogs. I read a lot of subreddits, I follow various Facebook groups, and obviously I'm on the other social media platforms sharing information and talking to all of you. In fact, I'll just tell you, with so many people making the decision to leave the meta apps, you know, like Instagram, Facebook and Threads, I found the amount of labor I have to do every day to share information has doubled. Now, in addition to, you know, designing the posts, which usually takes a couple hours, along with writing the posts and then, you know, sharing them on Instagram, now I'm posting on TikTok and threads and Blue sky and Tumblr and now as of today, substack. Because honestly, so many people have reached out asking me to offer these options and I'm trying my hardest to do it. One thing I will tell you is that I'm basically, I'm not responding to DMs on Instagram or other platforms for the foreseeable future. I have been in this mode all year where I'm just like, there's not enough time in the day between my actual, like paying work and closed source stuff. And having to post on all these platforms really does add up. And last week I did something that, you know, I honestly would have anyone who's worked for me in the past do when they were struggling with their workload. I tracked how much time I was spending on different tasks every day to kind of see like, where's the time going and what can I cut out and I will tell you, on average, this is so depressing. Are you ready? I spend about two hours a day responding to DMs, and it's because for every, like, nice, easy, like, oh, here's this cute cat photo dm, I get, I get three more that are super complex and require, like me searching for information for people, finding episodes for them, you know, answering really complicated questions, and, you know, five minutes here, 10 minutes there, suddenly you're two hours deep, two hours gone for that day. And I just, I can't do that right now. This is, you know, this is why people have social media managers or assistants who handle that kind of stuff. And I'm just not there yet. So taking a break from that. Of course, anytime you have something important you want to tell me or ask me, you can absolutely email me. My email is in the show notes of every single episode. It is on my website, it is on my social media profiles. You can find me very easily via email. The other thing I'll tell you is that one of the most common messages I get is, have you ever done an episode about xyz? And anytime one of you reaches out to me to ask me that or asks me if I've ever done a post about it, what have you? Do you know how I find the answer? I Google it. Because we're like 220something episodes deep. I have been working on this for close to five years. My brain has been filled with so much information in those years, I cannot remember off the top of my head these episode numbers or when I posted that thing. And so I have to search for it and then send you the links. So one thing that I was doing to make my life easier is I started this is such nerd alert right here. I started optimizing the SEO for every episode and Instagram caption, etc. So that I could just easily search the Internet and find answers for people. Searching the Internet for my own work. I know this is the world we live in, okay? And then it occurred to me, like, wait, everyone else can just search too, right? So I'm telling you now, if you've ever been like, has closed source ever done this? Or what was that episode? Or I remember seeing this post, Just do an Internet search because you're probably going to find it. And I'll also just add here that while I generally have been trying to move away from Google because of all the AI and just my feelings about Google, I still use the full G suite of products to work every day. So it's Never going to be perfect. I will tell you that I did sort of an AB test using different search engines before I decided to tell you all about this SEO stuff. And I will say that if you're just looking for an episode, you can use just about any search engine. Just be sure to be like, why do clothes fit so badly clotheshorse podcast? Or why is she in bad Clothesh podcast or whatever. Always include clotheshorse podcast in your question. Just about any search engine is going to get you to the podcast episode. But if you are looking for social media posts for reasons that I do not know, Google will generally find those for you. Like they seem to have archived somehow all Instagram content and things like that. So always include closed source podcasts when you search. But in most situations you're going to be able to find what you're looking for. And if you still can't find it, of course email me because either I didn't cover it yet and it might be interesting or or something about that particular episode could use some more love with the SEO. Anyway, all of that to say is that like, oh my God, I am on so many social media platforms right now it feels like my brain is going to explode. And being on all of these different platforms makes it very easy to just doom scroll in even more places throughout the day. And if you're like, okay, but like, what is doom scrolling? Well, the good yet sad news is that doom scrolling is so prevalent that it has its own Wikipedia page where it is defined as the act of spending an excess amount of time reading large quantities of news, particularly negative news. Now, I will tell you, I never am like, you know what sounds like a really great time to me is to sit down and read things that make me so upset. And I'm sure you've never opened an app with the expressed desire to encounter large quantities of negative news. But the reality is that all algorithms tend to not favor good news, right? Like algorithms function via engagement. The more likes or comments and shares a piece of content gets, the more people get to see it. And guess what gets the most engagement? Upsetting content. Outrage posts. Bad news. Clickbait. Controversial takes. I don't think anyone has woken up one morning and said, you know what? I'm going to become a content creator and I'm only going to share the most upsetting shit possible. And you know what? I'll be famous overnight. It's going to be great. But what does happen is this sort of feedback loop. A creator posts something upsetting, sees the great engagement, the follower Count increasing. And of course they are motivated to post more of the same kind of thing. It's not necessarily done with ill intentions. It's human nature to be rewarded for something and then do that thing again and again and again. Right. And so of course we see a lot of upsetting things on social media. And to be clear, platforms like Instagram, Threads and TikTok are paying content creators to post high engagement content. Not people like me who are in that liminal space of wow, I spend a lot of time creating content and wow, this is my full time job. I'm talking about the big accounts out there. They are absolutely being paid. I see people on Threads talking all the time about how much they are being paid each month by threads. When TikTok was going down, I saw a lot of conversation about the same thing. People making like 15, 20, $30,000 a month from TikTok. Yeah, it feels weird to me. Like on one hand I'm happy that people can make a living doing what they like, but on the other hand, I see how people are incentivized to post unverified information, hot takes, incendiary shit, and so much more. When you know that people are actually being paid to share content that will upset people because it gets the most engagement. And once again, I don't think anybody's intentionally thinking that way, but that's what's happening. Well, you start to see how your feed can be a certain way. Right. Another example I will just share here that has nothing to do with good news or bad news, except for, you know, bad news for the planet is Stanley cups, you know, the reusable tumblers. And it seemed like out of nowhere, it was the hottest thing you could buy. Influencers were showing them nonstop. People were fighting one another at Target for limited edition ones. People were having entire walls in their house that were just different colors of Stanley cups. And it felt, I mean, I don't know about you, but it felt so random to me because I was like, these are reusable cups and they're like, not even that cute. And listen, one of my clients gave me an amazing Oala reusable drinking bottle for Christmas, which was great because I really needed one. My other one was leaking beyond control. And this thing is pretty sick, right? And this is not an ad, by the way, but like, keeps my drink really cold. It's huge. It feels really sturdy. Fine. So listen, I can get why someone would buy a Stanley cup because it's high quality and lasts a long time and you know, really insulates your drinks and all those things. And we all need to drink more water. So fine, Great. What was shocking to me is how absurdly trendy it became super fast. And then I learned something that was super interesting. Influencers and content creators who posted Stanley Cups and had like an affiliate code that they could share with their followers. They were getting 10% of every purchase that customers made. Now you're like, is 10% good or bad? I'll tell you, it is based on my research, extremely high. Most influencers, content creators, et cetera, are not getting paid that high of a percentage off of a purchase. And furthermore, Stanley Cups are not cheap, right? So it was really easy to make a lot of money by posting about Stanley Cups quite often, which is what Stanley wanted. And so it sort of created this narrative that influencers and other people who you respect love Stanley Cups. You should get one too. But the real thing happening behind the scenes was these people love Stanley Cups because they get 10% of everyone you purchase, right? And so right there, once again, that intersection of money and content creation meant that we were seeing a lot of posts about these cups, and before long, we're buying them too. And it's not dissimilar to you, seeing a lot of extremely outrageous, upsetting, negative content in your feed and maybe getting the feeling that, like, the world is collapsing around you. Right? What makes it more complicated is that we, as humans, like in our brains, we are programmed to like bad news. Believe it or not. Part of this is what is called negativity bias. Basically, negative things have a greater effect on our mental state, even when compared to good things of the same intensity. Like, maybe you get a promotion you've worked so hard for and you're so excited and you're so proud of yourself. But on the same day, someone on the Internet, like a total stranger, gets into a fight with you, even though the promotion that you worked so hard for, right, should be the headline news in your brain that day, you're going to spend a lot more time thinking about that Internet argument. From an evolutionary perspective. We want to know bad possible outcomes so we can avoid them. Early humans would want to know, for example, that a neighbor had been attacked by a tiger. Maybe it was a saber toothed tiger. I don't know. Pick your flavor. Maybe it's a lion. Anyway, they would want to know that. Not because they were, like, glad to see that their neighbor got attacked, but rather so that they could cook up their own plan to avoid that fate for themselves. In fact, early humans would actively seek out upsetting news so that they could protect themselves. And it makes sense, right? Well, today we're still seeking out bad news without knowing it. And that is why we engage with that kind of content more. And then the algorithm serves even more of it to us. Our unconscious desire for this is still based in that like evolutionary tendency to like survive via bad news. One thing is like fomo, that fear of missing out. We don't want to be the only person who doesn't know the bad stuff because then we are more vulnerable. It's also about control. We feel like we have more control over our lives if we know bad things. Gathering information makes us feel less powerless in situations that tend to make us feel, well, powerless. You know, climate change and fascism, the big things feel more manageable when we know a lot of bad news about it. It's kind of wild, right? The thing is, of course, man, human brains are so complicated and weird and we are all a bunch of weirdos. I just want to say, because we want to know bad news to kind of feel more in control of things, right? But also study after study has shown what we already know anecdotally as humans on the Internet, doom scrolling exacerbates anxiety, fear, sadness, and it even leads to destructive behaviors like substance abuse, shopping addiction, gambling, suicidal ideation, self harm and other so called coping mechanisms that are actually really bad for us. And beyond even that, doomscrolling eats up a lot of time. It's so easy to sit down for a few minutes on your phone and look up an hour later. So then we have even less time. And you know, in late stage capitalism times like right now, we already really struggle to balance getting everything done every day, right? Because we work so much. Well now you lost an hour from doom scrolling and now you don't have the time that you need to do other stuff, right? Chores, work, talk to friends, eat, sleep. And not having that time takes a major toll on our mental and physical health. And then this exacerbates our feeling of doom and powerlessness. Like if I'm stressing out because I'm out of clean socks because I didn't have time to do laundry, how can I be expected to solve the world's problems? It's sort of like the bad feelings of doom scrolling lead to more bad feelings because there's even more personal stuff to worry about. And then it's almost like we feel less in control of the situation despite our brains telling us that knowing all this bad news means we're in control of it. And so feeling even more out of control, more powerless, it makes us more depressed, anxious, all of the bad things, right? It seems like we need to control doom scrolling, right? Like it's kind of one of the first things we need to check off if we're going to be okay. Well, there are a lot of different things you can do. I mean, there are, for example, a variety of apps that will shut down your access to social media based on the limits you put in place. I'm going to share an article in the Show Notes that goes through all of those different ones. I'll tell you, I have tried some of these in the past and you know what it made me do? Well, I can't look at XYZ on my phone, so I guess I'll just go get my laptop or my iPad or ask Dustin to look it up or whatever. So apps may work for you, but you also have to have like serious discipline. You can also buy this device called the Brick that will allow you to put time limits on various apps and then cut you off when you hit those limits. I have a friend who has one of these and she loves it. So I'll share that link in the show notes for you. But once again, you have to have the self control to not then go get out your laptop. Right? You can also just say, hey, I'm setting an alarm for 15 minutes from now and then I'm going to go put the phone down when it goes off and that's going to be the end of it. And once again, you just need to trust yourself to stick to that. Other experts recommend picking a specific time each day when you do just get to sit down and scroll the Internet, maybe while you're eating lunch or when you get home from work. Once again, set aside a specific amount of time and stick to it. Also, experts recommend that you do not choose first thing in the morning when you first wake up or right before bed because doom scrolling during those time periods is actually super bad for your brain and its health. Even more important beyond like controlling the time here, right is thinking about controlling the input and output of our brains. Writer Caitlin Kunkel writes about this on her sub stack. It's called Input and output. I'll share the link to that in the Show Notes. Basically, you can't be creative or productive if you aren't actively adding new sources of inspiration and information and creativity into your brain. And I actually have always believed this super strongly. Like if you're a painter, yes, you need to look at other paintings, right? And you need to paint, but you also need to read books and spend time outside and see films and experience life in order to grow and create better and better work. Well. Really, the same goes for all of us, no matter what we do. Like, yeah, I read and think a lot about sustainability, but I'm also reading fiction books and listening to podcasts about history and going to museums and listening to epic playlists of music and talking to friends. It helps me find inspiration for everything else I do. I'm not suggesting that you meet some sort of like quota for inputting other stuff into your brain, but rather make it a point to read a book before bed rather than jumping into your phone, which is something I've been doing lately and it has really enhanced my quality of life. Spend Friday night watching a movie like Dustin has a Criterion Subscription, which has really upgraded our entertainment options here. And the kinds of movies that we're watching are not ones where I can also scroll my phone at the same time, which means I actually have like a more immersive and inspiring experience. Go check out a museum or learn about birds or try a new craft. Make a music mix for a friend. Play a board game. Do something that doesn't involve your phone or social media. Something that has nothing to do with the news. A friend was telling me that what she likes to do is when they watch a movie or a TV show like her and her partner, she does embroidery while they're watching it and it's just like nice to only have one screen to look at. It kind of keeps her more in the moment, but it also like keeps her hands busy which strangely keeps her focused. So these are all things that we can do to kind of keep ourselves out of our phones. Honestly, all of this is like very important. Self care. We'll come back to self care in a few minutes, but you know, we have to take care of ourselves if we're going to, you know, survive and make the world better. Right?
- [31:59]
Dustin
Let's take a moment to thank some of the incredible small businesses who keep Clothes Horse going via their generous Patreon support.
- [32:07]
Amanda
Spokes and Stitches is a size inclusive pattern making and sewing studio based in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Pattern maker Ruby Gertz teaches workshops for hobbyists and aspiring design so that anyone can learn the foundational skills of designing and making their own clothes. If you're looking to expand your design skills beyond following store bought patterns, check out Ruby's flagship Sloper Workshop, an in person two day pattern making retreat where you will learn how to drape a set of basic block patterns that capture your unique shape and proportions. You can use these basic block or sloper patterns as a foundation for infinite styles of garments that are custom made to your body's one of a kind contours. No more full bust, flat seat or sway back adjustments. Start with a foundation that fits. Ruby also provides professional services such as pattern digitization, size charts, pattern making and grading services for indie slow fashion brands that want to prioritize inclusive sizing. You can find Ruby on Instagram @spokenSandStitches and get in touch with her for professional services at www.spokesandstitches.com Selena Sanders a.
- [33:17]
Dustin
Social impact brand that specializes in upcycle clothing using only reclaimed, vintage or thrifted materials from tea towels, linens, blankets and quilts. Sustainably crafted in Los Angeles, each piece is designed to last in one's closet for generations to come. Maximum Style Minimal Carbon footprint Shift clothing out of beautiful Astoria, Oregon with a focus on natural fibers, simple hard working designs and putting fat people first. Discover more@shiftwheeler.com late to the party Creating one of a kind statement clothing from vintage salvaged and thrifted textiles, they hope to tap into the dreamy memories we all hold. Floral curtains, a childhood dress, the wallpaper in your best friend's rec room. All while creating modern, sustainable garments that you'll love wearing and have for years to come. Late to the Party is passionate about celebrating and preserving textiles, the memories they hold and the stories they have yet to tell. Check them out on Instagram. Latetothepartypeople Vino Vintage Based just outside of la, we love the hunt of shopping secondhand because you never know what you might find. Catch us at flea markets around Southern California by following us on Instagram Vino Vintage so you don't miss our next event. Dylan Paige is an online clothing and lifestyle brand based out of St. Louis, Missouri. Our products are chosen with intention for the conscious community. Everything we carry is animal friendly, ethically made, sustainably sourced and cruelty free. Dylan Paige is for those who never stop questioning where something comes from. We know that personal experience dictates what's sustainable for you and we are here to help guide and support you to make choices that fit your needs. Check us out@dylanpage.com and find us on Instagram ylanpage life and style Salt Hats Purveyors of truly sustainable hats, hand blocked, sewn and embellished in Detroit, Michigan. Find us on Instagram althats Gentle Vibes Vintage we are purveyors of polyester and psychedelic relics we encourage experimentation and play not only in your wardrobe, but in your home too.
- [35:37]
Amanda
We have thousands of killer vintage pieces.
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Dustin
Ready for their next adventure. See them all on Instagram. Entlevibesvintage. Thumbprint is Detroit's only fair trade marketplace. Located in the historic Eastern Market. Our small business specializes in products handmade by empowered women in South Africa making a living wage creating things they love like hand painted candles and ceramics. We also carry a curated assortment of sustainable and natural locally made goods. Thumbprint is a great gift destination for both the special people in your life and for yourself. Browse our online store@thumbprintdetroit.com and find us on Instagram.
- [36:20]
Amanda
Thumprintdetroit Vagavan Vintage DTLV is a vintage clothing, accessories and decor reselling business based in downtown Las Vegas, Nevada.
- [36:32]
Dustin
Not only do we sell in Las.
- [36:34]
Amanda
Vegas, but we're also located throughout resale markets in San Francisco as well as.
- [36:39]
Dustin
At a curated boutique called Luxe and Ivy located in Indianapolis, Indiana.
- [36:44]
Amanda
Jessica, the founder and owner of Vagabond Vintage DTLV recently opened the first IRL.
- [36:49]
Dustin
Location located in the arts district of downtown Las Vegas on August 5th. The shop has a strong emphasis on 60s and 70s garments, single stitch tees and dreamy loungewear. Follow them on Instagram agabonvintagedtlv and keep.
- [37:05]
Amanda
An eye out for their website.
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Dustin
Coming fall of 2022.
- [37:14]
Amanda
Let's talk about news and how much we should consume. So listen, the weekend before last I went to New York City to see some clients who were at a trade show. And also, you know, just to get out and see something different, get some inspiration, spend some time somewhere different. All about like getting some new input for my brain, right? New York City is only three hours away from where I live on the train, so it's a pretty low impact trip. And certainly the city offers endless varieties of art information, good food inspiration and people watching. And it was kind of just what I needed after, you know, to be honest, it's been a really rough year so far, right? So stoked. I was stoked to go on this trip. I really wanted to enjoy it, but honestly it was, oh my God, it was so fucking stressful because Trump's executive order about tariffs was released when I got there and my phone was just blowing up in every possible way with texts from clients and DMs from Internet friends and strangers and everyone kind of wanting to know what we should do. I mean, people were crying, right? People were scared. I'm just gonna tell you before you ask I am not doing an episode about tariffs that is so boring to me. Any episode, honestly, would be instantly obsolete because this is a constantly shifting topic. You know, back in the first year of Clothes Horse, I did an episode about Shein. So, like, in 2020, and obviously, like, Shein has grown and shifted and changed in many ways since then. And I eventually just had to, like, pull it down because I was tired of people in 2024 sending me messages about an episode from 2020 to tell me how wrong I was about Shein. Right. And I feel like tariffs, an episode about tariffs, in addition to being very dry, would be so dated so fast. Like, how depressing to put that much work into it. And I would be receiving DMs for the rest of time about how I was wrong. So, no, we're not going to do an episode about tariffs, even though it is something that is on everybody's mind an awful lot right now, unfortunately, or fortunately, you decide. Tariffs are something that I actually know pretty well thanks to my years in buying. So I did that weekend in New York, I did take it upon myself to explain the tariffs to people and why I knew and know that they were not going to stick. And by the way, I was so right. I also did research into the legality of an executive order about tariffs and what we could do as concerned citizens. And I shared that information. I got a lot of people involved in emailing and calling their representatives. That was great, right? And it's so funny because the news about the tariffs, I swear to God, switched every 12 hours over that, like Saturday to Monday, period. So I'm glad about that. But I also got a lot of panicked messages. People were crying. Canadians, Canadians. You know, I love Canada. Okay, so what the fuck, guys? Canadians were low key, menacing me, and I don't know why. I think it's just because everybody's really stressed out and scared. Yes, I am American. I also love Canada. Please don't come for me. The whole thing was just so exhausting and it ate up a ton of time that I was on this trip. Also, I'm just going to add, there was an issue with the television in our hotel room. Like, the first night it wouldn't turn on. So the next morning when we were leaving, I said, hey, I stopped by the desk. Hey, there's something up with our tv. It just like won't turn on. It's no big deal either way, but if someone could go look at it, that would be great because my husband likes to watch TV to fall asleep. So Someone did go look at the television because when we came back like eight hours later, the TV was on. And we're like, oh my God, they fixed the tv. Woohoo. We're gonna watch Law and Order tonight or something. Great TV fixed. Except that it never turned off. We could not turn it off. It was hardwired into the wall. So even though Dustin was trying to unplug things and stuff, it never went off. It kept us up all night, even with the volume turned down and just like the screensaver on because it was super bright in a tiny room and it was only a few feet from our bed. And I think that coupled with my phone blowing up all night long even though it was on. Do not disturb. I don't know what was going on. Is that hotel haunted? I think we're all agreeing it was haunted. Anyway, it was just like a really exhausting time period. The whole thing was just a lot, it ate up, like I said, a lot of time on that trip. And of course, like I said, by Monday, as I predicted, the tariffs were no longer happening. But meanwhile, many people over that three day period, they cried, they panicked, they couldn't sleep, they probably had stress diarrhea, they fought with strangers on the Internet, they worried that they would lose their businesses and so much more. And while for my trip I didn't do very much stuff that was on my list at all because I was too busy reading about tariffs and spiraling about it myself, trying to put out this fire, feeling very anxious about it as well. And it was kind of like all for nothing, you know, except it was a phenomenal lesson, especially as an American with Trump in the White House. And that lesson was that we can't react to every single headline because everything is rapidly changing. You know, we live in like this 24 hour news cycle that for many of us has been our whole lives because we, you know, we were children when CNN was around, right? That was the first time people could watch news 24 hours a day. But most people weren't really sitting around watching news 24 hours a day. But what social media did and then like specifically smartphones is mean that the news is being fed to us 24 hours a day. And news changes so fast. Like using the tariffs as an example, in a pre smartphone social media era, that executive order would have come out on Saturday, Saturday night the nightly news would have talked about it, they probably would have talked again about it again on the Sunday news. And Monday they would have been like, oh, it's completely changed. So there would have been like three moments in people's lives where they would hear about the tariffs. But this was like constantly evolving and new quotes were coming out and think pieces, editorials, and on and on and on like non stop all day, every day for three days. People were stressed out, right? The thing is this chaos, this panic that it is inducing for all of us, it's intentional. I'm going to share this incredible video by Ezra Klein in the show notes. Go watch it. If it made me feel more optimistic than I have been in months. Watch this whether you are American, Canadian, Mexican, no matter where you live. Because I think it's also, even if you don't live here in the United States, it's really indicative of what it means to have sort of like a fascist or populist leader. Okay. And, you know, the whole world is dealing with the rise of the far right right now. So I think this is really important viewing for everyone. It helped me see. Watching this helped me see how I can cope with the current news cycle. And I will tell you, if you hate videos like me, although I did watch this video, you can also read the transcript, which was published by the New York Times on the Opinion page and I'll share that in the show notes. Klein talks about how the chaos of these executive orders is an intentional choice. Something that Steve Bannon, remember him, the guy who scammed people with like pretending to build a wall, among other things. Also, Steve Bannon ruined Biosphere 2, if you remember that from a couple episodes ago. Anyway, Steve Bannon told PBS frontline back in 2019 that this is like the strategy, right? And he calls it muzzle velocity. This is how Klein explains it. People largely learn of what the government is doing through the media, be it mainstream media or social media. If you overwhelm the media, if you give it too many places it needs to look all at once. If you keep moving it from one thing to the next, no coherent opposition can emerge. It is hard to even think coherently. And he's right. I mean, the tariff weekend is a great example of that, right? Also, how many of you thought there will be a weekend in 2025 where I will be absolutely dying of anxiety over tariffs? Right? It's wild. The thing is, as Klein explains, this state of overwhelm makes us feel like Trump is super powerful, like a king in the House of Presidents. But the thing is, he's not actually that powerful. Yes, he can pardon people. That's to power for sure. He can pull security for protection for people like Dr. Fauci. And that's fucked up and cruel, too. But he cannot rewrite the Constitution. In fact, just about every one of his executive orders is being shut down by courts around this country. States are filing lawsuits. The ACLU and other organizations are working overtime to protect us and the environment. The Constitution is written to protect the country from the kinds of things Trump is doing, and it is working. Trump is a weak man. He is not surrounded by the best and brightest. He does not have a mandate from the people to do this stuff. To quote Ezra Klein, again, if you're always consumed by the next outrage, you can't look closely at the last one. The impression of Trump's power remains. The fact that he keeps stepping on rakes is missed. The projection of strength obscures the reality of weakness. Don't believe him. And in general, beyond United States current events, the outrage will prevent us from accomplishing anything. And that's troubling. Now that you. We know that social media is kind of fueled by outrage, right? The thing is, I also see how social media can bring people together, build community, help people find their people and their cause and their purpose. I saw it during the early years of the pandemic and I still see it now. But it's all about curating our feed. I talked about this in the Doomerism episode, but I want to touch on it again because we can make this information age, right? This 24 hour news cycle, social media as a whole, we can make this work for us, but we gotta do work to make it work, right? And that is once again kind of curating and controlling your feed. The first thing I'm going to say is let yourself hear and receive good news. I promise that even in the midst of everything that has happened so far this year, in the last few years, good things have happened, too. Wait, do you want to hear some good news? Okay. So you know the Fashion Act, I've been working with a coalition of people for like, I don't know, like a year and a half now to get it passed in New York State. The logic there being that, like, if we can get it passed in New York State, it's going to change the global game of making clothing because New York has one of the largest economies in the world. Well, you know who else has one of the largest economies in the world? California. And guess what? California has introduced the Fashion Act. Earlier this week, actually. And I feel very strongly that it's going to get passed in California. I also feel very strongly it's going to get passed in New York. This year because more and more people are signing onto it. And so I actually feel that this year can be transformative. When we talk about the regulation of fast fashion, that's some incredible news, right? That, that keeps me going, right? And we need more of that because actually good stuff is happening around us all the time. Court cases are being won, people are being protected, new ideas are flourishing. It's out there, but it's hard to see on social media sometimes. I'll also just say, beyond news information, follow accounts and consume media. That is just fun, right? I listen to all kinds of silly podcasts about records and lifetime movies and trends on social media and all kinds of nonsense and it makes me so happy. And you know what? It makes me smarter. I also follow and follow accounts and listen to podcasts and watch TV shows that make me laugh, even just get a little smile out of me, just make me feel good. I promise that fun and joy, they keep us energized and active. They're just as important as the serious shit, right? We cannot every moment of the day be like, I am so serious. We're humans and we gotta laugh, right? We gotta have nice silly things to think about too. I'm just also gonna say avoid and unfollow accounts and news sources etc that only share bad news without any actionable steps you can take in the face of it. Because if someone's just sharing bad news with you and doesn't tell you what you can do, that only exacerbates that state of overwhelm that makes us feel powerless, right? That can make us feel disconnected. It can also make us just feel so afraid, so angry that it impacts our ability to just like live our day to day lives. Unfollow those accounts, stay away from those news sources. It's also really important that you regulate the flow of news into your life. As I said, you could be consuming news 24 hours a day. And I'm not saying, okay, turn it off altogether. Don't ever get any news again unless that's where you need to be right now, which I totally understand. But I just recommend taking in as much as you can handle and process news. News is changing so fast right now that what happens in the morning may not be relevant by the evening. So pick a time when you consume news and stick to that it doesn't need and shouldn't be an all day affair. Unfollow accounts that just share content nonstop that is really designed to just keep you upset and of course rein in that doom scrolling, right? I Also just want to remind you to fact check outrageous things you see online. It's free, it only takes a simple Internet search, and as a concerned citizen and all around decent person, you want to know the facts. This week I'm actually recording an episode with a legit professional and highly regarded journalist and we're going to talk about how media, not social media, but like the actual media, like journalists, fact check and ensure things are right to the best of their ability. In that episode I'll also be talking more about how and why to fact check stuff you see online and how easy it can be and actually how beneficial it is, like on a personal level. And I'll give you some examples in that episode. But in the meantime, let me tell you this very, very important piece of advice. Do not. Do not what? Get your news from social media. Yep, it's that easy. If you want to stay up on what's really happening, you're going to have to listen to NPR or get a newspaper subscription or actually stick with some like really legit media platforms like, you know, the, the Associated Press or ProPublica. You are not going to get the best, most accurate news on social media. In fact, do not rely on social media because thanks to character limits, you'll never get the full story. A 90 second reel or a TikTok is not enough to capture the details. And furthermore, there are a lot of accounts who are never fact checking things before sharing it or presenting highly one sided news that is heavily opinion based. An example I would give of that is so informed. You hear the name of the account so informed and you're like, oh, this is news. But I will tell you, it is highly editorialized. That does not mean that the stuff being shared isn't true. But when you see highly editorialized information, be aware that you may not be getting the full story. And I know that this is highly editorialized not just because I fact check these things, but like someone in a comment like a month ago was like, hey, I appreciate that you share this information, but you know, it's like there's a lot of opinion in this presented as news. And the woman behind SEW Informed was like, yeah, that's how I do it and that's how I want to do it. So just as an FYI, that is not what I would consider unbiased news. Right? And you don't get the whole picture there. There are also big accounts that I know some of you follow because I see you sharing stuff from them that they're not technically sharing. Incorrect information, but they are sharing what is very isolated, sort of surgically selected facts, but they're sharing them in a completely inaccurate way in order to stir up outrage. I'm going to use an example of a post from this account in my episode about media, but there's this account called Sesters Jones who even runs that account. I can't figure it out at all. Anyway, they will occasionally or actually, I mean, quite often share things that seemed like they are the total facts of something and they're not. And actually the way these facts are sort of cherry picked and isolated from the rest of the story is very upsetting, very infuriating, would make you want to burn it all down, and it actually prevents you from knowing how you can really take action. And so yeah, I have a great example from that account that I'm going to share with you next week. Anyway, I'm not saying that any of these accounts, whether it's so Informed or Seaster's Jones or your friend or whatever, are intentionally trying to mislead people, but they are probably operating under the assumption that their followers have a more detailed view of current events that will help them keep their content in perspective. And unfortunately, we just know that most people are only getting their news from social media, so they aren't hearing the whole story in order to get that perspective. Beyond all of that, content creators are not held to any standard of fact checking, so who knows where they're getting their info or if they're even checking its accuracy, if they even know how to check its accuracy, or if it even matters to their followers. Social media is not where you should get your news. And I want to be very clear with you. The version of the world and its events that you see on social media is very algorithm specific. In other words, the algorithm, no matter the platform, is showing you exactly what has engaged you previously. If you like pictures of cute cats, you're going to get more pictures of cute cats. But here's another example. Earlier this week, someone on Threads posted that they thought it was so weird that everyone, especially in the United States, was just posting normal stuff like outfits and trips and engagement photos and all that stuff, when everything in the US is so chaotic right now. And I was like, what? All I see is content along the lines of, oh my God, we are so fucked right now. Like we're seeing two different Internets, right? But that's what the algorithm thinks I want to see, and I really wish it would stop doing that. So if you want to see a particular subject or type of content. Engage with stuff that matches that. Want to see cute outfit photos or cats or sustainability content or what have you. Engage with posts about that and you will see more of that. If you don't want to see misinformation or outrage porn or anything like that, don't engage with that stuff and you won't see it again. Heart and comment and save posts that you like. These things matter. It won't perfectly curate your feed, but it will help a lot. Also, I'm just going to say this again. I'm sorry if you're tired of hearing me say this, but I am not sorry. Do not get your news from social media. Here's another great example of why you should not do that. I've seen a lot of posts in the last week along the lines of why aren't Americans protesting? Right? That was wild to me because on Wednesday alone there were protests in every State and Washington D.C. others were responding to say that they weren't seeing it either because the mainstream media wasn't covering the protests. But I had been all week reading about protests on various news sites ranging from my local newspaper to USA Today to the New Republic. The mainstream media was covering these protests. You weren't seeing it on social media because people were strategically not sharing photos of the protests there because they didn't want to be identifying themselves, you know, to bad actors. Right? So once again, you got to remember that social media isn't giving you the full picture because it's not designed to do that. And while I know it can be kind of confusing to say don't get your news from social media, when media outlets have social media accounts where they are sharing some stuff, it's confusing, right? But they are sharing stuff on social media as a marketing technique to remind you that they exist to get you to go to their website. Right? It's not a news sharing strategy. Okay, so they are choosing to post about the truly social media style engaging articles and editorial pieces. The things that you will read and like and save and share, not necessarily the full picture of the news. And furthermore, the algorithm is going to show you things that get the most engagement. And you know what? Unfortunately it's not often the really thrilling news about how your town got a new recycling plant that can now handle textiles. I know, crazy, right? That's why we have to be involved with real news outside of social media. I also want to go back to this idea of input and output and that's to tell you to be sure to give yourself some inputs that are positive Right. I, for example, have recently become a big fan of this subreddit called Optimists Unite, where people can share good news and even the facts around bad situations that actually can make you feel more hopeful. Sometimes hope is really just seeing the whole picture. And I think that subreddit does a good job. I also recommend following Elena Wood. She's known on social media as the Garbage Queen. She is a sustainability scientist and a climate communicator. She has a great substack called Good Climate News. I'll also share that in the show Notes. Also, if any of you know her personally, can you make an introduction? Because I would love to have her on the podcast to talk about Good climate news. I also, I mean, this is like someone who I've been obsessed with following on social media forever, but that is Robert Reich. I like following him on substack. He's an economist, a professor, an all around rad guy. He's also on TikTok and he's been putting out these really nice, really helpful videos. So for those of you who are on TikTok, check that out. He gives great pragmatic but also motivating advice. And I'm also loving. This is another sub stack. It's called Letters from an American. This one's by history professor Heather Cox Richardson. Really just great historical perspective on things that are happening right now. I'll share all of these in the show notes. I think the thing is like, we gotta look for our news and information in places that seem a little bit less convenient than opening up Instagram or Blue sky or threads. And that's the only way we're going to get the whole perspective. And even I will say, as someone who is like up in Reddit all the time, the percentage of actual news that is shared there is very small. It's just the same stuff being shared over and over again. And when I actually go read a newspaper's website, I'm like, oh my God, there's so much more stuff happening in this world and some of it is awesome. So we gotta get back to like using the news for real again, you know, I'm gonna tell you something that will most likely never be successful on social media now that we know about how the algorithms work, you know, maybe I'll post it this week as an experiment and we'll see. I believe in humanity's ability to overcome any obstacle. Climate change, fascism, the horrendous impact of over consumption, and what it is to live in late stage capitalism. I believe, I believe that we can Overcome all of that, because I can look back at history and see how humanity has adapted and innovated. From polio vaccines to antibiotics to going to the fucking moon to figuring out electricity to designing buildings that survive earthquakes. I mean, I'm gonna tell you, I almost died in childbirth because my blood pressure bottomed out. If this was the 1800s, I would be RIP right now. But the machines invented by humans told doctors what the problem was. They gave me medication invented by humans, and here I am. I survived. I mean, guys, I had cancer as a kid, and I'm still here talking to you. Humans can get through all of this, but only if we're all united and working together. One thing I have been seeing a lot on the Internet lately is this idea that the best thing that can happen is just complete societal collapse. Whether that's the collapse of the United States or the world as a whole, I want to be clear that that is not the best solution. It's not the basket where you should be putting all your eggs right now. Okay? People who are putting this idea out there are suffering from some major main character energy. Maybe they've read the Hunger Games a few too many times. Because the reality is that if we ignore everything until society collapses, lots of people will suffer and die. They'll die from violence, from starvation, from lack of access to medical care and medication. So there's this subreddit. You knew I was going to say that anytime I say there's this, you know it's going to be a subreddit, right? It's called like, two X chromosome preppers, something like that. It is a subreddit for women and non binary people who are prepping for societal collapse, basically. And they're sharing all kinds of tips for, like, you know, collecting food and, you know, learning skills and gardening and setting yourself up for, like, you know, everything falling apart. A lot of them really believe strongly that on inauguration day it was going to happen. And they were even like, withdrawing thousands of dollars from the bank so that they could have money for this inevitable collapse. And there was a post like 2 weeks ago where I was like, I need to stop reading the subreddit because it is making me too anxious. And it was from this woman who has a thyroid illness that requires her to have medication every day. And without it, she'll die pretty fast. And the post was basically like, I will probably die pretty fast after society collapses. What can I do to make sure my family is set up for success after I'm gone? And. But fuck, I hated that. Post so much, it made me so fucking sad. What would have been great is for people to show up and be like, I don't think society is going to collapse, but instead people were showing up to either say, like, oh, well, you got to do the best you can do and hope for the best, right? Or other people telling her how to hoard medication or people. There was one person who said that she was ableist for assuming that she would die. And what she needed to recognize is that when everything collapses, people are going to be making medications on their own. And that is just like, come on, guys, come on. The whole thing was, like, so upsetting to me. But I also can see there's something comforting about just being like, well, the worst is coming really soon and then we'll be in the worst and then we don't have to worry about the worst anymore, right? That is the. That is the safe space of thinking that collapse is coming and prepping for it makes you feel. It goes back to that, like, evolutionary thing, like, I'm not going to be the person who gets eaten by the tiger because I'm prepared and I'm in control of the situation, right? The people who feel that we're going to have this easy societal collapse and then the world will reset itself and capitalism will be gone, everyone will get along and we'll all flourish and there'll be no more income inequality or people struggling or hate in the world or all these other things are fundamentally wrong. Unfortunately, what will happen is a lot of people are going to die, right? Even after the French Revolution, which, you know, is always trending when we want to talk about eat, the rich people starved way more than they were even before the revolution when they were also starving. People were more likely to be the victims of crime and violence. And no, I'm not talking about the aristocrats here. I'm talking about normal peasants. Because people were stealing from one another, you know, hurting one another, killing one another. It was a very difficult time. And on top of all that, packs of dogs wandered the streets. Many of them had been left behind by people who had evacuated or people who had been, you know, sent to the guillotine, what have you. There were all these dogs. They were breeding uncontrollably. They were hungry and they were going around and attacking people. It was a very scary time. They were spreading rabies, okay? It was a very scary time. What we want to do is not get to that time, right? We don't want that. We don't want people to die because they can't get their thyroid medication. We do not want collapse. We want to work together to prevent all of that from happening, right? We don't need collapse for the world to be better. To me, saying the collapse is coming, get ready for it, is not dissimilar to saying, well, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. So I just ordered a bunch of shit from temu. It is the same thing, right? It is like finding respite in how doomed we all are. And we are not, in fact all doomed. Rooting for collapse is like selfish at minimum, and it's extremely destructive at its worst. After all, if you're sitting around waiting for the worst case scenario to play out, you don't have to be responsible for anything, right? You don't owe anyone anything. Nothing about your life changes because you're just waiting around. It's destructive because if you share these ideas online, others will see them. Maybe they'll decide to, you know, give up and wait around for collapse too. Yes, I do believe that humans can overcome anything, but only if they are actually working on it. If you're enjoying this episode, then this is a great time to remind you.
- [70:32]
Dustin
That my work here at Close Source is made possible by the support of listeners like you. Just like NPR and these great small businesses, please go give them your support. Blank CAS or Blanket Coats by cas, is focused on restoring, renewing and reviving the history held within vintage and heirloom textiles by embodying the love, craft and energy that is original to each vintage textile. As I transfer it into a new garment, I hope we can reteach ourselves to care for and mend what we have and make it last. Blank CAS lives on Instagram @blankcas and a website will be launched soon at Blank Cassette located in Whistler, Canada. Velvet Underground is a velvet jungle full of vintage and secondhand clothing plants, a.
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Amanda
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Dustin
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Amanda
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Dustin
And community dedicated to promoting self expression as well as educating and inspiring a more sustainable and conscious lifestyle both for the people and the planet. Find us on Instagram shopvelvetunderground or online at www.shopvelvetunderground.com. st. Evens is a New York City based vintage shop that is dedicated to bringing you those special pieces you'll reach for again and again. More than just a store, St. Evens is dedicated to sharing the stories and history behind the garments. 10% of all sales are donated to a different charitable organization each month. New Vintage is release every Thursday@wearsaintevens.com with previews of new pieces and more brought to you on Instagram where St. Evans that's ware St. Evens Country Feedback is a mom and pop record shop in Tarboro, North Carolina. They specialize in used rock, country and soul and offer affordable vintage clothing and housewares.
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Amanda
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Dustin
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Amanda
If it's ethical and legal, we try.
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Dustin
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Amanda
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Dustin
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Amanda
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Dustin
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Amanda
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Dustin
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- [76:22]
Amanda
So should we be fighting with people online? What a time to be alive. Should we fight with people online or not? Well, real talk. My opinion I'm not sure that anyone's mind has been changed by a conversation in the comments section, but I know others feel otherwise. So I'm going to give you my advice as a chronically online content creator who has been talking to strangers about slow fashion and other stuff for almost five years now. And man, have I learned a lot of things the hard way. Once again, I I don't think that you have to be having these conversations with people online, but you certainly can. And it can be one part of the work you do, right? And it can be beneficial, but you gotta do it right. So let's start with what not to do. And I'm gonna use talking to people about fast fashion as an example because obviously I have done this all the wrong way in the past. Don't start the conversation with like sort of othering or blamey language. Things like people like you, it's your fault. If you cared about anyone but yourself. It's selfish of you. I mean, you can be like, who would say that? I'm gonna tell you. I can see anytime someone with a public account shares one of my posts on Instagram and these are the kinds of things I see them sharing. Okay? So that's how I know that this really happens. I also just want to say, and I posted about this today on Threads. Are you all familiar with the term schadenfreude? It's been very popular for like the last 10 years. It's such an Internet word. I mean, it's not an Internet word, but it's very popular on the Internet. So I'm calling it Internet word. It basically Means like taking joy from someone else's despair, frustration, loss, right? And it usually is sort of like I told you so kind of thing, right? And I'm seeing a lot of people exhibiting a lot of schadenfreude, although it's, it's gone now. But they were for about a week when the de minimis rule had been dropped in US Import export policy, which if you are a longtime listener of closed source, you know, you know what the de minimis rule is, right? It means that any package with a value of less than $800 ships into the United States without any duties. And that has really enabled Shein and Temu to grow out of control. It's given them this, like, wild advantage over any other brand or retailer, because any other brand or retailer is paying duties to import their stuff into the United States. But they are not right. And there's been talk about closing that loophole for a long time now. And in part, in Trump's big executive order about tariff, this was part of it. And I was like, oh my God, am I really having a moment where Trump said something I liked? I guess a broken clock is right twice a day. And you know, I was kind of like, this sucks for small businesses outside of the United States, right? It's. It also sucks for Shein and Timu, and that is good to me. And of course, I would rather a more defined policy that, that protected small businesses while, you know, punishing Shein and Teemu. Anyway, I. People were getting, you know, bills for duties on their Shein and Temu orders and freaking out on the Internet. And people who know why these brands like Shein are a problem were having a lot of shot in Freuda about it. They were like, haha, enjoy your extra 10% or $30 or whatever that you have to pay for your dumb order. And I was like, you know, hey, listen, I get those feelings. Sometimes it just feels too good to be like, I told you so, but you kind of got to keep it inside because no one ever was like, you're right, you did tell me so. Thank you for telling me so. I'll listen to you more in the future. I'm gonna assure you that is not what happens. Instead, they're like, fuck you. You are so sanctimonious. You think you're always right, you're smug, you're unbearable, and I'm never listening to you again. So please, please don't show up with your schadenfreude. Right? Don't blame people. Don't tell them that they are the problem. You also don't want to use language that sounds like an ultimatum or a condemnation. Like, if you're not doing xyz, then you're a bad person. If you're buying fast fashion, I don't want to talk to you. Unfollow me. If you shop from Shein, we are not friends if you're not posting about this. And once again, my friends, those are all things that I have seen on Instagram posts, so from Clothes Horse that were shared in people's stories. So I know this is what people are saying. Do not say things like that. Do not position yourself as superior to others. Ultimately, we are all in this together. We gotta all deal with these repercussions, right? So let's stick with we and us language and not you and me. Meaning, rather than saying, when you buy clothes from Shein, your impact is xyz, say, when we buy clothes from Shein, our impact is xyz, right? Because we're all in this together, and we don't want to ever position ourselves as superior to the person we're talking to because then they don't want to hear it anymore. It's like, when people are like, I'm not like other girls. I don't get my nails done. Well, listen, maybe you don't get your nails done for a bunch of, like, environmental or health reasons, which I totally appreciate. But when you say it like that to someone who does get their nails done, it makes them feel like you're saying that you are better than them. Right? It doesn't work. Don't do it. Just don't do it. You know, a little rule of thumb that I keep in mind, which I told everybody in the how to Talk About Slow Fashion Workshop earlier this week, is a little rule that I sort of learned from my grandfather, but by accident. So I don't know if you did this as a kid. I feel like I was intentionally doing this so that I could perhaps imply when I asked permission to do something that, I don't know, public opinion was on my side. So I would go up to my grandpa and I say, hey, Pap. That's what I called him. Hey, Pap. Yeah, we'd really like to go to Rutter's, which was a convenience store, and buy some Garbage Pail Kids. And he would be. He would look at me. He would look around me, would just be me there. And he would say, we. Do you have a mouse in your pocket? And I used to be like, come on, Pap, you Know, I just want to go to Rutters and get Garbage Pail Kids. But. But the mouse in your pocket idea, it's kind of like when I'm talking to people about important issues to me, like slow fashion, like why we shouldn't shop from Shein. I talk as if it's me and the mouse in my pocket. So it's always we and us and our. And when I'm like writing something, I take a step back and I'm like, where's the mouse in this? I gotta go back in here, right? And so that is my advice for you. When you're talking to people. If saying we and us feels uncomfortable to you, just picture the little mouse. He's in your pocket. Maybe you guys will go to Redder's and get some Garbage Pail Kids. I don't know. Pap's gonna have to give you $5 to do it though. Also, just like, don't be a jerk. Stay polite. Feel free to call people out on their bullshit, but be low key. I don't know, like, professional about it, and don't take the bait. Like, if someone is clearly trying to engage you in trollishness, like calling you ugly or stupid or whatever, which happens to me all day, every day, just walk away. And you know what? Block them. I have, like, no patience for that kind of stuff. I'll tell you, for a long time I felt like I couldn't block people because it was like, I don't know, I was like censoring people. Well, guess what? I am not a government. I am a person. I mean, you come into my social media, you know, area my profile, my DMs, my comment space, what have you, that is my house. And if you would come into my house and say that to my face, well, I'd be really surprised, right? And if you did, I would ask you to leave. And that is what I do with my social media spaces. I treat it like it's my home. I'll never forget. One of the first people I ever blocked was the woman who's behind that brand, Shrimpton Couture, which, by the way, people ask me all the time to have her on the podcast. That is never going to happen because she wants was so nasty to me in 2021 that I will never forget. And I felt really weird blocking her. Like that was, I don't know, mean of me to block someone who was being very mean to me in her stories and in DMs. And I blocked her. And I instantly was like, wait, this Feels fucking amazing. I'm addicted to blocking. Okay, maybe not addicted to blocking, but I do block people, you know, when they're being assholes to me because they're being assholes to me. Not because they are assholes, most likely, but because I am anonymous to them and so I can be a receptacle for bad behavior, bad language, just badness. And it feels low stakes to them, so I just remove the situation from them. Because while it feels low stakes to them, it actually is hurtful to me. If people are treating you badly on the Internet, block them immediately and do not feel bad about it. What else should you do? You should share why what you're talking about matters to you. Our personal stories unlock doors and open ears. It's how we understand things. It's how we know that it's real and reliable, and knowing the humanity of it engages us. We should listen and ask questions too, because we're not know it alls. We don't claim to have all of the answers. And maybe someone else has something that we've never heard before. Apologize if you do hurt someone's feelings, even if it is accidental. Most likely it was an accident. But you got to remember, it's hard to read tone and intention in a comment section. And if anyone comes at me, kind of hard, I'll just apologize to them because I just assumed that, like, they thought I was being someone that I wasn't being right. I know you have the best intentions. People might not know that because they don't know you. Get your sources straight. I will tell you. One of my favorite ways to deal with trolls is before blocking them, is to vanquish them with links to information from reliable sources. Start saving your own list. I love it. I love to be like, okay, well, here's what I know, and I'll quote it and I'll share the link. And usually either, I don't know, they stop harassing me, or they're like, holy, I was wrong. That's what I like to believe. Who knows? Once again, though, should you be fighting with people on the Internet about any of this stuff? I don't know. If you're feeling angry, frustrated, you're about to spew some expletives, just walk away. Because rage might bring a few people into the fold, but very few. And as my gam, Sandy, who was married to my pap, always said, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. So it is better if you can't be nice. Just walk away. It's okay. There'll be other days, there'll be other fights to be had. I personally do not feel that being a keyboard warrior, as they like to call them, is particularly productive. But I also can see how connecting with others in general, including online, can be a beneficial thing, especially if that person is actually looking for information, actually looking for community, actually looking for motivation. You talking with them can be so impactful. It's just all about what you feel comfortable doing. And that said, though we cannot let our action begin and end on social media, it needs to extend into real life. There's nothing worse than feeling powerless, feeling trapped in an unfair and unjust world, and feeling as if there is nothing you can do. In fact, that makes everything around you feel 1,000 times scarier. And suddenly you're rooting for societal collapse. Because then at least the worst thing will be here and you don't have to worry about it happening anymore. But the thing is, you can either be part of the solution or you can be a part of the problem. And if you're doing nothing, well, I have bad news for you. You're part of the problem. Unfortunately, the good news is that there are many things you can do and they come in a variety of different forms and time commitments. You can do all of these, or some of these, or none of these, and they all help and matter. So I'm just going to go through a whole list. What you do, what your day to day life looks like can be a combination. Maybe you hate all these ideas, maybe you have some things you think I've missed, let me know. But I'm going to tell you all the things that you could do. All right? And you can think about where they fit into your life. First off, you need to vote in every single election, no matter how small. Reach out to your elected representatives, no matter where you live, what country that is, it doesn't matter. Get involved. Send letters and postcards and emails, and even call on the phone. Word on the street is that phone calls are best. But to be honest, I've gotten phone calls and emails in response to emails and letters I have sent. The most important thing is to include why this matters to you specifically and add that personal aspect. I'm going to give you an example. Back in 2020, I got obsessed with writing my senators, my state representatives, my federal representatives, my governor, you name it. And I was writing about the unemployment system because in 2020, myself, like a ton of other people, we lost our jobs all at once. And just about every state in the United States had a horrible infrastructure Structure, like technologically for unemployment insurance. And so many of us were unable to file, unable to receive benefits. I think we went like six months before I got paid anything, which was very scary because we relied on my income to survive. And so I started emailing and calling and I would talk to them. I would say, listen, I have been a professional in the fashion industry for a long time and you know, my family really relies on my income. When I was laid off at the beginning of the pandemic, it was a really scary time financially for us. But at least I knew that I would get unemployment benefits to bridge the gap. And while they are much less than I was being paid when I was employed, they still would have covered the essentials and we wouldn't have had to worry about where we would live or what we would eat. Unfortunately, I haven't been paid in six months. My daughter has had to give up going to college. We had to move out of the city into the country because we couldn't.
- [91:11]
Dustin
Afford our rent anymore.
- [91:13]
Amanda
And every day is really, really scary. If this can happen to me as a professional, as a white collar worker, I know that it is exponentially worse for everyone else. And I would get responses regularly, emails, calls, letters, invitations to meetings to talk about it more. And I feel very strongly that it is because I shared my personal impact. It felt real. Right. And it was real. Right. My theory here is that I can't help but think these stories, they build up in the minds of the people receiving these emails and calls. Much like we kind of collect stories from the people in our lives and they kind of inform how we feel about things and how we prioritize things. I think when you're in that level where you're getting all these stories from strangers all the time, it changes your mind. Right? You can't help but feel motivated to take action when you're carrying all these stories around with you. So when you reach out to people, I think it's really important to include that and how it makes you feel, how it's impacting the community around you. There are an infinite number of things that you can reach out about. And if you want to call and email all your people every day for the rest of time, I feel like you'll never run out of things to talk about. Here are some examples of things that are relevant to right now. Right. Like if you're here in the United States, you could ask your governor or your state legislatures, even your mayor, to block ICE to protect undocumented members of your community. And you could ask them what they are doing to protect vulnerable people. If you're in the U.S. you could ask your Democratic senators to block Trump's nominations. You could ask your state legislators and governors to pass legislation like the Fashion Act. You could ask for extended producer responsibility legislation which would make retailers responsible for the disposal of the low quality stuff they sell. And this could push them to make the manufacturers to make things last longer and be repairable. You could ask your city council to consider adding more public transportation, which would lower the carbon footprint of commuters. You can see there are so many things you could do here. The next thing you can do is help members of your community, whether it's IRL or virtual. And this can range. It's all kinds of things, right? You could be volunteering at your local library. You could be volunteering at a food bank. You could be providing assistance for people applying for benefits like housing and food assistance and healthcare. And this is actually a really good time to mention that helping your community comes in many forms. And usually it isn't starting a new organization or being the leader of it all because there are so many roles to play in supporting our communities, right? You could be providing childcare so workers can get together to plan a strike. Or you could be cooking and distributing food via Food Not Bombs or a similar organization. You could be volunteering to help teenagers learn more about what your career is like and maybe, you know, helping them get ready for college. You might feel like you don't have a lot to offer in terms of time or expertise, but I bet you have a lot more to offer than you think. Back in 2020, once again, when I was writing letters and emails and calling all my representatives all the time, you know what else I was doing? I was helping strangers apply for unemployment benefits because, you know, not everybody has a computer. So automatically people are trying to file this paperwork on their phones. The questions are confusing if you're not super technologically, I don't know, competent or like not accustomed to filling out this kind of like legalese paperwork. It's really, really overwhelming. And so I would have virtual sessions with people where I help them fill it out and I didn't have to be there with them. I mean, it was like peak pandemic, right? I was giving people advice like that, who to call, what time to call, just doing all kinds of things to help people have a better situation, right? And I was like, you know, it turns out I'm becoming a real expert on how to navigate this system. Let me help other a friend of mine has been helping families in LA who were displaced by the fire. She's been helping them, you know, apply for assistance and get into a new apartment and even get their kids situated in a new school. And she's been doing all this virtually just helping them with the mountain of paperwork and resources and making sure that they understand what's going on and, like, just making sure they're okay. Because once again, if you don't have a lot of technological competence or access to technology in the first place, this can be really challenging. I mean, she even helped them get, like, replacement phones and things like that. So there are a lot of ways that you can help out that are not glamorous and may not even involve leaving your house. Another thing you can do is find a local group to get involved with. Whether it's environmentally focused or your local small business group or a group that cleans up parks and beaches and waterways. It can be a political group. If you're in the U.S. indivisible.org is a great place for finding local progressive political groups, groups. And you can show up for local events with these organizations. You can go to information fairs and protests and take part in any other direct actions. I'm going to tell you as we move through this list, it may not seem like it right now, but when you do things like this, no matter how small they might seem, it is going to make you feel better. It is going to help squash down that sense of panic. It's going to help you feel like, I really am in control of this situation. Like, I'm not helpless, I'm not powerless. I. I'm helping. I'm making this world better. Like, I promise any of these things will make your brain feel so much better and they will have this larger impact outside of you, too. But it's okay to be selfish for a minute and be like, you know what? This makes me feel good. This makes me feel sane. This makes me feel like everything's going to be okay. It's okay to feel that way. You could also, you could throw your own small events. And I'm not talking like, you don't have to have a big conference or throw a protest or anything like that. Although you could. But you could host a mending night or repair workshop or a sewing group, a book club, a clothing swap. These kinds of groups are incredibly important for building connections and sharing information. And they can also be virtual, which can make them more accessible to people with disabilities. So there are many ways that these can play out as well. Next don't give your money to assholes. It is the original clothes horse ism and it's a catchy phrase. Can I tell you though, the first time I posted it on Instagram, I was really afraid I was gonna get like, banned or something for cursing. Anyway, sure, it's fun to say don't give your money to assholes, but it's also, it means something bigger, right? It means using our power as consumers to force change and accountability from the businesses selling us stuff, Right? It's an important part of being a concerned and active citizen. I used to say your money is a vote pretty often, but I stopped because I felt like it created the illusion that we can shop our way to a better world, which we can't. But I've also learned along the way that only two things will force any industry to make a change, and that's the law and lost sales. Even the fear of lost sales. And we can support the law side of it, obviously by voting and protesting and starting petitions and calling and emailing our representatives, all these things I've been talking about. But the lost sales aspect is kind of easy too, because we just stop giving these companies so much money and it has impact. And, you know, if it's just one of us, not much impact, right? But if it's all of us or even most of us, and we're doing it for a sustained amount of time, these one day boycotts never work. Because. Because it's just one day, right? It needs to be sustained. That is when these companies are forced to change, when these billionaires are possibly forced to change. Like, I love hearing that sales of Tesla are like way down. Because wouldn't it be rad if Tesla went broke anyway? It's sales of Teslas are down because people are like, ooh, I don't want to be affiliated with that. Right? There are all these other ways we can take that same feeling and channel it into action and change. Okay, what else? If you have the financial means, support mutual aid groups and fundraisers and organizations that are fighting for good things right here in the US I'm thinking specifically of the ACLU and the Environmental Defense Fund because they are actively fighting all of Trump's stupid executive orders in court. You can also fundraise. And it can be as simple as having a party and charging admission or selling your secondhand clothes and donating the money. These are all little things we can do as well, right? Okay, here's something that sounds small but is actually low key. Scary, but it's super important. And that is getting to know your neighbors. Okay, there was this guy on Threads today who was like, I don't get what all these people are talking about with community. It sounds like he was like a very, like, societal collapse is coming person. I looked through his profile and people were like, hey, one way you can get involved with your community is just to like, know your neighbors. And I was like, yeah, just know your neighbors. And you alone are like, look at this. I'm in a community. We know each other. I know their names. I mean, not only do I know all my neighbors names, I know the names of their cows and ponies too. Like, I'm invested, right? And I know that we can count on each other if things get really hairy. Next, keep learning knowledge. It fuels change, it fuels progress. How do humans innovate and adapt? By learning. So reading and going to museums and opening ourselves up to new information, listening to information from other people, you know, documentaries, podcasts, books, libraries, all the good things. This is so good for you. And when you know, when you know more and understand what's going on, it's going to make you feel so much less afraid. And when you know more, you can also, this is very important, spread good, true information, right? Also super important to just tell people what's up. Make small changes within your life gradually, you know, and that can be all kinds of things. What you buy, what you don't buy, what you waste, what you don't waste. You can take more public transportation, grow your own food, mend and repair your stuff. There are so many little things you can do that make a larger impact when others are doing them too. And beyond that, once again, these changes in your life can make, make you feel better, more in control of what's happening around you. And that's super important. Next, you can explore your creative side. Use art as a means of expressing what is happening in the world around you. Art can be incredibly motivating and incredibly reassuring on a personal level, but also on a larger social scale. Working on art alongside others can build strong bonds. And using art to convey the impact of what is happening and what needs to happen can change minds and bring people into a cause. Art is one way that people can understand the experiences of others, right? And it can be painting or drawing or sculpture or sewing or it can be writing a story. It can be so many things, right, that can convey the experience and what matters to other people. And lastly, take care of yourself. Get rest, sleep in, take space, let yourself relax and have fun and laugh and hang out and celebrate holidays. Whatever does it for you. In the Doomerism episode, I talked about how I saw a lot of posts last year that really annoyed the out of me, where people were like, americans are so horrible and selfish that they'll celebrate Halloween while a genocide is happening, or they'll buy each other Christmas presents while people are dying. And it's like, listen, we need our strength to keep going. And that strength is recharged by moments of joy and fun and inside jokes and silly TV shows and rolling around the grass and making funny cat videos and eating delicious food, talking on the phone, playing board games. Whatever it is, we need those things to keep us going. So yeah, the world gets scarier every day. The list of things to worry and scare and enrage us seems to be growing exponentially. It can feel so hard to be okay. And yet I still believe that we can and will get through this together. Every one of us has an important role to play here. Every one of us matters. Individual action is important. Despite what you might be told elsewhere, like, can one person change the world on their own?
- [104:17]
Dustin
Probably not.
- [104:18]
Amanda
But when you're working alongside thousands and millions of other people, change is inevitable. And I am so excited about all the things that we can accomplish together because we're going to get through this together. Let's keep talking, let's keep listening. Let's keep learning and thinking and inviting others to join us. And I promise you, we will come out of this better than ever. Thanks for listening to another episode of Closed Horse. Hosted, written, researched, edited all the things by me, Amanda Lee McCarty if you liked what you're hearing, you know, tell everyone possible ever about this podcast. Leave a Rating Leave a Review subscribe all those things that boost Clothes Horse into the algorithm, into other people's lives. If you'd like to support my work financially, there are many ways you can do that. You can find that in the show notes@closehorsepodcast.com and in my bio on Literally. I'm pretty sure every single social media platform where I go as osehorsepodcast, even on, as I said substack. Now, I'm really trying to be there for all of you. Lastly, but of course, never leastly, thank you so very much to Mr. Justin Travis White for our music and audio support. Bye.