Clotheshorse Ep. 246: "Doomerism is Boring" (LIVE IN SEATTLE!)
Host: Amanda Lee McCarty (she/they)
Guests: Janelle (jrat), Kim (Heavy Duty Vintage), Nivi (Soapbox Project)
Date: October 26, 2025
Location: Seattle, WA (Live audience)
Overview
In this dynamic live episode, host Amanda Lee McCarty challenges the rise of “doomerism” — the defeatist belief that individual ethical action is pointless in late capitalism, especially regarding fashion, consumption, and climate change. Amanda and three guest leaders from the slow fashion and climate action space push back against apathy, exploring why it’s vital to keep having inconvenient, human, creative conversations about change—even when doing so is hard.
Through storytelling, audience engagement, and unforgettable anecdotes (and the improv game "Brenda"), the panel demonstrates that meaningful progress is possible, that ethical living is not just for the privileged, and that community, creativity, and hope are crucial antidotes to resignation.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Culture of “Doomerism” and Conversation Stoppers
[07:00 - 10:28]
-
Amanda critiques the proliferation of phrases like “we’re doomed,” “there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism,” and “my individual actions don’t matter,” especially in online spaces.
-
Quote:
“If we say we're doomed, we don't have to change anything we do ever... But you take a step back and you think like, maybe being doomed isn't very fun, right?”
— Amanda (10:00) -
Amanda draws an analogy between “doomer” rhetoric and her own past relationship denial, comparing avoidance of personal change to avoiding hard conversations about collective problems.
2. Carrying the Conversation Forward
[11:00 - 16:00]
- Instead of letting “no ethical consumption” end the debate, Amanda argues we need to ask: “What if we carried the conversation beyond that, and did something different, even if it’s inconvenient or uncomfortable?”
3. Guest Spotlight: Janelle (jrat) — Sacrifice & Creativity for Ethical Fashion
[11:43 - 25:57]
-
Janelle’s upcycled clothing brand is rooted in a refusal to contribute to exploitative global garment chains.
-
Quote:
“If I didn’t make [sacrifices] for myself, I’d be asking somebody else to sacrifice for my paycheck.”
— Janelle (13:23) -
She discusses pushing back against industry norms, even within her own family, and explains her philosophy of creative, ethical labor.
- Learned the realities of labor exploitation at 15 working in her parents' factory; has had to make personal and financial sacrifices to run her studio.
-
Hard-won insight: Ethical fashion is not inherently for the rich; Janelle strives to make it accessible, and frames her customers as partners in ethical labor value.
-
Memorable Exchange:
A: “How hard is it to do what you’re doing? Like, do you find yourself literally suffering because you stick to your values?”
C: “Yes… I went through long periods of self-punishment... But being sustainable is being willing to acknowledge my humanity.”
— Amanda & Janelle [21:19-25:01]
4. Audience Q&A: Practicality vs. Perfection
[26:10 - 29:09]
-
Reuse, shipping, and “perfection as enemy of progress”:
- Amanda: “If you posted that [question] on the internet, someone would be like, ‘You’re canceled,’ …Listen, if you’re gonna wear that jacket a lot, go for it.”
- Janelle: “Investing in something unique increases the joy and longevity.”
-
Generational ethics and leading by example raised in a question about inspiring kids:
- Amanda: “We can just model the world we want to see and lead by example.”
5. Guest Spotlight: Kim (Heavy Duty Vintage) — Clothing, Identity, and Emotional Realities
[42:02 - 54:01]
- Kim discusses the deep psychological connection plus-size and queer people have with clothing, rooted in class, trauma, and resource scarcity.
- Growing up fat and queer: “Clothing was political in every sense…”
- Calls out how shame around owning “too much” simply mirrors resource insecurity:
- Quote:
“When you grow up with limited resources, what you have defines how you take part in the world. So when you’re a fat gay kid... what I could wear and how I could show up in places was my only level of access, which means what I owned was my only ability to define myself.”
— Kim (54:49) - Amanda: “When we talk overconsumption, we mean buying tons, barely wearing them, then passing them on as waste. Having a lot of loved clothing is actually stewardship.”
- Quote:
6. Building and Discovering Personal Style Through Gender and Size
[59:11 - 65:10 (Q&A)]
- Audience member Colleen asks about finding style through gender confusion and plus-size lens.
- Kim’s advice:
- “Be nice to yourself. You’re not gonna hit it every day.”
- Start with comfort; play and experiment without tying style to confidence or “hitting it.”
- Once you shed fear of “looking wrong,” possibilities open up: “It’s not the pants that make me look fat, you know?... Once you take that layer away… you can get playful with it.”
7. Stewardship and Stories: Wearing vs. Saving Treasured Clothes
[68:03 - 72:55]
- Amanda, Kim & Janelle discuss generational pieces, sentimental attachments, and the “gallery” nature of loving and preserving clothes.
- Janelle: “I have clothes that are precious and I view as art objects, and I have others I have sacrificed to live in. I want them to look like I lived in them.”
- The stories attached to clothing matter: it’s about what you do in them, who you meet, the memories you make.
8. Guest Spotlight: Nivi (Soapbox Project) — Community as Anti-Doom
[79:12 - 95:22]
- Nivi describes starting Soapbox Project so climate action can be joyful, accessible, and regular—not one-off or performative.
- “I didn’t want to be an activist. I just wanted to be a girl. But the fate of the planet was interfering with my ability to vibe and hang out with my friends.” (79:53)
- Community is the antidote to doomscrolly apathy: “Even if who knows what happens in 100 years… I’m not giving up on the people around me and I’m not giving up on this group project to save the world.”
- Reframes doom as boring and unoriginal.
- Quote:
“We get it, you can doom scroll great.”
— Nivi (83:48)
9. The Myth of Convenience (and Its Relationship to Capitalism & Apathy)
[85:29 - 95:18]
- The panel discusses how convenience—hailed as a high value—often distances us from community, reduces creativity, breeds apathy, and ends possibilities for meaningful change.
- Kim: “Convenience is a myth, it’s based on what you can afford, what you have access to, what your body is capable of… for me, it’s convenient to see cash in my wallet and go buy groceries with it.”
- Nivi: “Convenience is the opiate of the masses… But who is the person you want to be? I’d rather be inconvenienced.”
10. Vintage Sourcing for Plus Sizes, Business Sacrifice, and Sustainability
[97:06 - 109:32]
- Kim, on why plus-size vintage is scarce: “Fat people have fewer resources and our pay equity is shit. So historically, fat people wore things until they disintegrated.”
- Estate sales, traveling, and direct community are best sources; plus-size shopping is “destination shopping.”
- How do small, mission-driven business owners sustain themselves financially and emotionally?
- Nivi on her experience: “I had to go four years without a paycheck, but it was still better than the stomachache of corporate work… Take stock of your own runway with finances, mental health, support network.”
- Amanda: “I’m a thousand times happier than when I was working in corporate fashion… Even if I have existential anxiety all the time, at least I’m doing what matters.”
11. What Keeps Us Hopeful?
[109:32 - END]
- Nivi: “We have to create the things that keep us hopeful… Dystopia needs to die. I’m only interested in solarpunk and protopian art. …It is the hard work and the joyful rigor of making sure I leave my house and talk to people that want to keep hope alive.”
- Kim (with humor): “I exist purely out of spite… But if something’s horny or I can do something ’for the bit,’ that’s my reason. …When someone tells me something’s not possible, I’m like, but did you even try?”
- Janelle: “I am personally in an era of post-traumatic growth. I’m willing to continue making sacrifices because they will accumulate only for the positive, and I get to define what success is.”
- Amanda (closing): “If you’re feeling right now like giving up, that you’re doomed…just again, we are not doomed unless we choose to be. And we’re not choosing that. That’s why we’re here.”
Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)
-
“If we say we're doomed, we don't have to change anything we do ever.”
— Amanda, (10:00) -
“If I didn't make [sacrifices] for myself, I'd be asking somebody else to sacrifice for my paycheck.”
— Janelle, (13:23) -
“Clothing isn't just clothing, TM. There's a whole universe under this pair of pants.”
— Kim, (45:40) -
“We can never let perfection be the enemy of progress. In sustainability, we do that way too often.”
— Amanda, (27:02) -
“We are not doomed unless we choose to be. And we’re not choosing that.”
— Amanda, (118:00)
Additional Memorable Exchanges
- On Fat Queer Style and Survival
Kim: “If this one black dress doesn't work, these 77 other black dresses might... When you grow up with limited resources, what you have defines how you take part in the world.” (54:49) - On Inspiration and Hope
Nivi: “Dystopia needs to die. I’m only interested in solarpunk... We are only feeding the narratives that talk about how bad things are.” (110:15)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:47 – Amanda’s intro, “Brenda” game explanation
- 07:00 – On “doomerism” as a conversation stopper
- 11:43 – Guest intro: Janelle (jrat)
- 21:19 – On the real sacrifices of ethical labor
- 26:10 – Audience Q&A: ethics vs. perfection
- 42:02 – Guest intro: Kim (Heavy Duty Vintage)
- 43:52 – Clothing, trauma, and personal history
- 54:01 – Owning lots of clothes as stewardship, not shame
- 59:11 – Q&A on discovering style and gender
- 68:03 – Wearing vs. preserving sentimental clothes
- 79:12 – Guest intro: Nivi (Soapbox Project)
- 85:29 – Myth and dangers of "convenience"
- 97:06 – Q&A: plus-size vintage, business & sustainability
- 109:32 – What keeps us (and the movement) hopeful?
Tone
The episode is irreverent, heartfelt, and honest—mixing humor, vulnerability, and critique. The panelists joke (“I exist purely out of spite,” “What we all actually have to do is develop a more meaningful relationship with our bodies,” “Do not let perfection be the enemy of progress!”), but never shy away from the hard stuff. The mood is candid but community-minded: “We are not doomed—unless we choose to be.”
Final Thoughts
This episode is a rallying cry against resignation, a look inside the lived experiences of three leaders who refuse to stop at “we’re cooked.” It’s a testament to the messy, powerful, uncomfortable—and ultimately hopeful—work of building a more just, less boring world, starting with what we wear and how we show up.