Barry Levinson | Club Random with Bill Maher

Summary

Club Random with Bill Maher

Guest: Barry Levinson
Release Date: December 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively Club Random episode, Bill Maher sits down with Oscar-winning director Barry Levinson for a wide-ranging, laugh-filled, and deeply reflective conversation. Avoiding politics, the two share candid stories about their longstanding careers in comedy and filmmaking, dissect the mechanics of humor, muse on generational change, and debate the promise and peril of artificial intelligence. With classic Maher wit and Levinson's sharp insights, they explore everything from the rise of ensemble movies to the changing face of showbiz, the lasting impact of comedic influences, and what makes art—and life—worth doing.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Origins of “Diner” and Ensemble Filmmaking

• (03:10–14:27)

• Auditions, Early Careers, and Happenstance Casting
  • Maher recalls his own auditions in the 1980s and mutual connections with Paul Reiser; Levinson recounts how authentic casting moments (like Paul Reiser’s casting for "Diner") sometimes come by accident from people just tagging along.
  • Levinson shares, “There’s a guy out there, he came with his friend… I’m listening to him talk and I like his rhythm.” (05:41, Levinson)
• Improvisation and Naturalism
  • "A lot of that movie was ad lib" (07:06, Maher). The actors improvised key scenes, a forerunner to the style seen in shows like "Curb Your Enthusiasm."
  • Levinson discusses miking all actors for authentic rhythm and credits Robert Altman as inspiration for naturalist dialogue, though Maher argues he prefers Levinson’s more entertaining, balanced approach.
• Ensemble Storytelling
  • Maher: “‘Diner’…sort of made legitimate this sort of ensemble way of doing a movie. Who’s the star?...It was sort of equal.” (11:21)
  • Levinson: “They all have separate stories…but they do work as a group. It’s not ‘here’s the lead and here’s the friends.’” (12:07)

2. Generations, Recklessness, and Creativity

• (15:05–20:28)

• The Reckless Years
  • Levinson shares a hilarious and poignant story about a friend who took random pills off the sidewalk: “They could have been good, man.” (17:23, Levinson)
  • Maher riffs: “It is amazing to me that anyone lives to 40…Men are so stupid! …I did things like that…I just didn’t quite do that.” (18:42, Maher)
• Transformation from Recklessness to Artistry
  • Levinson: “There’s a reckless period. And it’s also the beginning of a creative period. They often go together…” (20:04)

3. Comedy’s Evolution: Lenny Bruce, Ali, and the Changing Voice

• (23:27–29:33)

• Lenny Bruce: The Comedic Revolution
  • Levinson recalls discovering Lenny Bruce and dragging friends to see him: “A comedian? Why would we go see a comedian?”—highlighting Bruce’s originality and the shift from borscht belt comics to more daring, authentic voices. (24:07, Levinson)
  • “That was the beginning of the change in the standup comic.” (27:58, Levinson)
• Cultural Change—Ali and Dylan
  • Maher: “Lenny Bruce was to comedy what Dylan was to music.” (28:15, Maher)
  • They compare Muhammad Ali’s brashness to the performative confidence now common in hip-hop, noting his seismic impact on sport, culture, and performative ego.

4. Reflections on Movie-Making, Technology, and the AI Era

• (30:22–47:21, 50:07–64:32)

• Wide-Screen, Leone, and America through Outsider Eyes
  • Discussion of how directors like Sergio Leone and Ennio Morricone found new meaning in American genres.
    • “He changed so it becomes musical…And that’s what he was copying, you’re saying.” (33:48, Levinson)
• On De Niro’s Dual Roles
  • Levinson discusses the technical and artistic challenge of De Niro playing two leads in his latest gangster film, inspired by films like “Cat Ballou” and actors like Lee Marvin.
  • Maher and Levinson riff on the emotional depth and complexity of long-term friendships versus youthful rivalries.
• The AI Revolution: Promise and Peril
  • Maher rails against “ass-kissing AI” and digital appliances: “They just…kiss our ass and then they’ll take over. They’ll seduce us and then they’ll fuck us.” (51:59)
  • Levinson expresses awe and concern about AI’s capabilities, especially as it replaces jobs and rewires creativity: “It has no ability to find humor.” (61:21, Levinson)
  • Both muse over how rapidly automation and artificial intelligence are eating into jobs and risks of unchecked progress: “Can you imagine if there was a depression and we lost 30% of jobs?” (64:43, Maher)

5. Showbiz Nostalgia and the Mechanics of Comedy

• (72:03–94:48)

• Hollywood Past vs. Present
  • Discussion of moguls like Robert Evans—the patronage, personality, and one-on-one decision-making of “old Hollywood” now lost to faceless committees, market calculations, and risk aversion.
  • On ageism: “When you’re our age, you…have to go, no, I’m still necessary…You have to take the crown. I’m not going to give it to you.” (74:41, Maher)
• Early Career: Writing for Carol Burnett and More
  • Levinson recalls writing sketches for Marty Feldman and Carol Burnett, working alongside comic legends like Tim Conway and Harvey Korman.
  • “What sketch did you remember? ‘Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde.’” (79:59, Maher/Levinson)

6. The Perishable Nature of Comedy and Artistic Legacy

• (86:25–94:48)

• Why So Much Old Comedy Doesn’t Land
  • Maher and Levinson agree on the fleeting nature of most comedy, contrasted with the staying power of music and certain films.
  • “Comedy is so perishable…Music holds up, but do we really watch comedy from 60 years ago? No.” (86:59, Maher)
• Classics Old and New: What Lasts?
  • Discussion of whether films from the 1930s/1940s, like “Bringing Up Baby,” still work for modern audiences versus more recently remade versions.
  • They reflect on the polite, literary style of old war letters (“never said fuck!”) versus today’s coarser, more expressive slang.

7. Art, Politics, and the Role of the Artist

• (67:11–71:10)

• On Not Being a Polemicist
  • Maher observes that Levinson avoids overt politics or preachiness in his work: “You were very clever your whole career never to get drawn into, like, being a polemicist.” (67:11)
  • Levinson: “It’s the mechanics of it all. It’s not art, it’s polemics. They’re two different things. But there are directors who do get them confused.” (67:52–67:59)
  • Anecdotes about working with Dustin Hoffman, Robert De Niro, and Robert Evans.

8. Film History, Reinvention, and the Creative Mindset

• (95:10–98:00)

• Behind the Scenes of “Rain Man”
  • Levinson describes how he came onto “Rain Man” after Sidney Pollack’s exit, detailing how the writer’s strike forced ad-libbing and improvisation ("it’s all ad lib”).
  • “I just said to Dustin, you want to get off…out of the car, and you’re not getting in the car until you get off the highway, and that’s it. And then Tom, you’re trying to deal with him, and…that was it. So we would just shoot it and put it together.” (97:08, Levinson)

9. Podcasting, Friendship, and Creative Freedom

• (98:53–End)

• Why Maher Started the Podcast
  • Maher explains the unique quality of Club Random: “I just get high and talk. It doesn’t have to be about politics… I want people to forget, no other person in the room, no microphones in our face… it does produce a level of intimacy I do not see anywhere else.” (99:49)
  • Levinson: “No camera person. That was a good idea. I just realized that I’m not paying attention…” (99:47, Levinson)
• Mutual Appreciation and Closing
  • Maher: “I’m such a fan, and you’re just as entertaining to sit with as you are to watch.” (98:10)
  • The two express hopes to repeat the chat, praising the relaxed, intimate format.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Levinson on Comedy’s Reckless Roots:
  “There’s a period of… reckless[ness]… And it’s also the beginning of a creative period. …Some can’t handle it and crash, and the others take off.” (20:04, Levinson)

• Maher on Generational Dumbness:
  “It is amazing to me that anyone lives to 40. Because you are—at least men are—so stupid.” (18:42, Maher)

• Maher on AI:
  “They just... kiss our ass and then they’ll take over. They’ll seduce us and then they’ll fuck us.” (51:59, Maher)

• Levinson on Artificial Intelligence:
  “It has no ability to find humor.” (61:21, Levinson)

• Maher on Comedy’s Expiration Date:
  “Comedy is so perishable… Music holds up, but do we really watch comedy from 60 years ago? No.” (86:59, Maher)

• Levinson on Ensemble Movies:
  “They all have separate stories… but they do work as a group. It’s not, ‘here’s the lead and here’s the friends.’” (12:07, Levinson)

• Maher on Avoiding Polemics:
  “You want to put interesting ideas out there, but you don’t want to be… preachy or show your politics.” (67:23, Maher)

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Segment Highlights with Timestamps

• “Diner” casting, improvisation, and the balance of naturalism and entertainment (03:16–14:27)
• The folly and glory of youth, and its creative legacy (15:05–20:28)
• Comedy’s linchpins: Lenny Bruce, Ali, and the shifting comedic voice (23:27–29:33)
• AI, De Niro’s twin roles, and the challenge of modern filmmaking (30:22–47:21, 50:07–64:32)
• Classic Hollywood culture and the changing business of movies and television (72:03–74:50)
• What comedy and art last? On legacy, war letters, and shifting mores (86:25–94:48)
• Creative improvisation during the “Rain Man” writer strike (95:10–98:00)

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Tone and Style

The episode mirrors the “hangout” vibe that Club Random is known for: irreverent, candid, full of industry insider stories, and punctuated by Maher's biting (and self-deprecating) wit. Levinson is reflective, wise, and occasionally deadpan, offering warmth alongside sharp observations about life and showbiz.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the history and craft of comedy, the changing face of movies, and the unpredictable overlap of genius, foolishness, and luck that shapes a lifetime of creativity. Barry Levinson’s stories—whether about the accidental genius of casting, the technical challenges of dual performances, or simply surviving youth—offer wisdom, laughs, and retrospective clarity. Bill Maher, ever the observer and provocateur, keeps the energy high, leading a conversation that is nostalgic, timely, and studded with quotable gems.

Transcript

[Comedian/Host]

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[Comedian/Host]

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[Barry Levinson]

Well, we have to stop that. The question is, how do you stop that?

[Comedian/Host]

Well, first of all, you have to.

[Barry Levinson]

Want to club random. It's not funny at all.

[Comedian/Host]

Exactly my point. They were just happy to have the war over. How are you, pal?

[Barry Levinson]

Good, how you doing?

[Comedian/Host]

I mean, I don't really know you that well, but I feel like I do. I feel like you're my pal because I'm such a fan.

[Barry Levinson]

Here. Oh, thanks.

[Comedian/Host]

And all the. I think we have met, though.

[Barry Levinson]

We did. I thought we met that you came in for a role in something.

[Comedian/Host]

Oh, my God. That long ago? That long ago when I was looking for roles.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. And you came in and we met.

[Comedian/Host]

Holy. What? Do you remember the project?

[Barry Levinson]

No. Was it. It was a half hour show.

[Comedian/Host]

Oh, it was a TV show.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah, it was a half hour TV show.

[Comedian/Host]

It was not the lead in Rain Man.

[Barry Levinson]

No, no, it wasn't that.

[Comedian/Host]

I did read for top gun in 1983.

[Barry Levinson]

Did you really?

[Comedian/Host]

20? Sure, I was 27. I don't know. I don't know if it was the. For the Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise role, But it was 1983. I was 27. They needed soldiers. I was the right age for a soldier. Yeah, there you go. So. But a TV show and you don't remember what show this was?

[Barry Levinson]

I can't remember. Maybe it'll come to me as we talk. But I. It didn't. I think it was. We did like, I think six episodes and then it was short lived and I was originally going to direct it, but then they wanted to do it as a, you know, like a video thing, you know, rather than, you know, cameras. So it's all done all in one go. And I just said I'm not really fond of doing that. So I backed out of directing it.

[Comedian/Host]

See, I always thought our connection was my buddy, comic buddy who I started with Paul Reiser.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

And you know, we had a mutual friend, sadly now departed Michael Hampton Kane. And he and Paul were out buying underwear one day and he had an audition for Diner. Michael did.

[Barry Levinson]

Yes.

[Comedian/Host]

And they. And Paul was just tagging along.

[Barry Levinson]

Right.

[Comedian/Host]

You remember this?

[Barry Levinson]

No, I know the story.

[Comedian/Host]

Yes, okay, I remember. And he got the part, obviously.

[Barry Levinson]

I'll tell you what happened on the other side of it then Ellen Chenoweth, who was the casting director, she said, you know, there's a guy out there, he came with his friend. They're going somewhere afterwards, I don't know.

[Comedian/Host]

What, buying underwear, I'm telling you.

[Barry Levinson]

And she said, you know, I'm listening to him talk and I like his rhythm. It seems good. She said, but I don't think he's ever done anything. I said, well, I mean, I'll meet him. So he came in, we talked.

[Comedian/Host]

You hadn't done much by then, right? We're talking about 1982.

[Barry Levinson]

This is the first. This would be my first chance to direct.

[Comedian/Host]

Yes, I know.

[Barry Levinson]

And he came in and we Talked for about 20 minutes, half hour. And when he left, I said to Ellen, I said, we have to use him. I just got to figure out the character and then I'm going to work with him. He'll be good.

[Comedian/Host]

I mean, that rhythm that he has, which is all his. They used to say that he took it from Richard Lewis. There is a similarity there. But he didn't take it from Richard Lewis.

[Barry Levinson]

No, that's the way he talks.

[Comedian/Host]

It's the way he talks. And so does Richard Lewis. To a degree, yes. I mean, I could see why people would say that, but sometimes Jews just sound alike. There, I've said it. Jews all sound. Not all, but, you know. And that's what it was. And they're funny.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

No, I mean, a lot of that movie was ad lib.

[Barry Levinson]

Right. That's how with Paul. Like if we were. I remember late at night and we still had a little time left, and I said, why don't you talk to Eddie, the character Gutenberg is playing that. And just say, are you going home? You know, and he says, of course I'm going home. It's four in the morning, you know. I said, why don't I just keep. You want to ride, but you don't want to talk about it. And then I told that to Gutenberg and we put together a scene and it ends one of the evenings at the diner.

[Comedian/Host]

I mean, it was kind of an early version of what, like Curb youb Enthusiasm does much. Right. You're just telling them, you're not giving them a specific dialogue, right? You're just saying this is the scene. These are funny people. Funny comic actors, actors, but comedians, you know, kind of both. And you do it. It'll look more natural and it'll come out funnier than people reading dialogue.

[Barry Levinson]

Right?

[Comedian/Host]

No, that's.

[Barry Levinson]

And, and that was the fun part of it. The only thing I had to figure out. And we also had to. And I didn't know it at this time when we started to do that. The, I said, oh, that's a take. Let's. And the, the audio guy said, well, you know, it's not going to work. I said, why not? So because the off camera guys, the voices, they have to wait. I said, yeah, but it sounds good. It sounds good. It's natural. And he said, no, well, you can always do that in post. You can take one side and the other and you put them together. I said, I know, but it'll affect the rhythm of the, of the actors. We. They have to be loose enough. They said, well, but that's the way we do it. And I said, well, what happens if you mike all of them this side of the table and this side of the table? So even if they're off camera, the rhythm is still the rhythm, you know, I mean, you can't, you can't fix funny moments and just how long a pause is and all that's gotta. And so that's what we did. I didn't know that. Cause I was first time doing a film that Altman had used. Multiple.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah, yes, absolutely. I mean, you could see that in mash. You can see that in Nashville. It's a much more naturalistic. I'm not a giant. Is he still with this?

[Barry Levinson]

No.

[Comedian/Host]

Great. Okay.

[Barry Levinson]

It's okay. It won't.

[Comedian/Host]

I was never a giant fan of. What's his first name? Altman. Robert Altman.

[Barry Levinson]

Robert Altman.

[Comedian/Host]

I mean, MASH is a, is obviously a landmark movie. I like the TV show a lot better than the movie, right? Maybe not, I don't know, but it's very. It's a little too naturalistic for me. You to me, hit a great balance. I mean, your movie the Diner is super entertaining and it's not. I mean, Robert Altman, I mean, it's. It's an acquired taste. I'll just put it that way.

[Barry Levinson]

Look, he did some terrific films and some that I didn't particularly care for. But when he did hit with mash, that was like a breakthrough. I mean, they're operating, there's blood, and they're talking about it, and it's very Casual and that sort of, you know, it's not the Korean War, but set in the Korean War. And that was a breakthrough moment.

[Comedian/Host]

That's how the pacing is slow. That's his style to, like, just let the camera just take in this portrait, this palette. Yeah. For a very long time. And not a lot of cut. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm remembering it wrong, but it just seemed a little too unpolished for me. You know, there's something to be said for. For raw, and there's something to be said for working on it till it's perfect. And you gotta find the balance in between. No.

[Barry Levinson]

Yes, you do. But at its time, it was a breakthrough.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah.

[Barry Levinson]

And that's, you know, that's. That's the key thing. All of a sudden, something different. You go, oh. And then things went along that way. Now, he continued to do it, but sometimes successfully, sometimes not. So.

[Comedian/Host]

But Diner was also that. Because, I mean, it sort of ushered in this ensemble. Not that people hadn't done an ensemble cast before, but I feel like this was. That's my memory of it, that it sort of made legitimate this sort of ensemble way of doing a movie. I mean, like, who's the star of it? Yeah, all of them. You know, they all. It was sort of equal. Was it. Was it Mickey Rourke? No.

[Barry Levinson]

No.

[Comedian/Host]

Was it Daniel Stern? No. Was it Reiser? I mean, who? Gutenberg? I mean, there was no, like, definitive. Oh, that's the prima alpha.

[Barry Levinson]

Right.

[Comedian/Host]

You know, it was all. It's ensemble.

[Barry Levinson]

No, it's a. They're all dependent of one another.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah.

[Barry Levinson]

You know, they all have separate stories to wander through, but they're. And they're different characters, but they do work as a group. It's not. Here's the lead and here's the Friends.

[Comedian/Host]

I mean, that's. I think, the same year as the Big Chill. Or maybe the Big Chill was 83.

[Barry Levinson]

I'm not sure they were near one another.

[Comedian/Host]

Remember the Big Chill?

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

So, like, I feel like I know what that was. Commenting on the Big Chill, but I feel like diner. What would you say it was? Like, what was the message or the comment on this era we're living in this new decade, and where are we in 1998, 1982? What was it saying about that?

[Barry Levinson]

Well, it was really what we're saying in 1959, which is when the movie is set.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah, but commenting. You can set a movie in B.C. and it still can be commenting. I mean, the. The.

[Barry Levinson]

Well, what's the.

[Comedian/Host]

What's the Arthur Miller movie? About the Salem witch trials. It's really commenting on the communist scare of the 50s. The. The crucible.

[Barry Levinson]

Right, right.

[Comedian/Host]

Okay, so it's 1959, but I feel like it had something to say about our president.

[Barry Levinson]

Well, no, it does. I mean, it was based on the idea of the lack of communication between male and female.

[Comedian/Host]

Yes, that.

[Barry Levinson]

That's the heart and soul of the piece.

[Comedian/Host]

Daniel Stern, I remember, with the wife and the records.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah, and the records. And what's on the flip side? And how do you not know that? It turns into a huge argument walking out on one another, you know, and Eddie with a football test, he doesn't want to get married. Which was a true story, by the way.

[Comedian/Host]

But these are things, obviously you told them. I mean, they didn't ad lib those things. They may have ad libbed the dialogue. But those were your ideas for the.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah, those are the. Those are the moments that we got to hit.

[Comedian/Host]

Right?

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. And, you know, so I was just taking what I had, what I knew growing up, you know, all of our stupidity at times and how we don't understand things and the confusion that went on and all of that leading up to the beginning of a new era, 1960, and what's going to happen.

[Comedian/Host]

But I think. I mean, again, the big chill. I think I was just talking about this here with somebody. To me, the message of that movie was encapsulated in the scene where, again, this is early 80s and it's about the generation that thought they were gonna be hippies forever. Right? But now we all have to discover that moment. You're not a hippie anymore. You got kids. And do you remember the movie? And Kevin Kline, he's living out in North Carolina, and they all come for some sort of reunion, right? They all went to college together in the 60s. And there were hippies.

[Barry Levinson]

Was it a funeral that they came?

[Comedian/Host]

One guy had died. I think that was Kevin Costner, who they cut out of the movie. Remember, he was supposed to be in that, but his startup had to wait a minute. But they all come to his house and there's a scene where the cop comes by and, you know, it's kind of rural, but. And Kevin Klein is really nice to the cop. And, you know, one of his friends is giving him shit about, oh, you're really nice to the pigs, huh? And he's like, dude, I'm dug in here, okay? I live here now. I've got kids. I want that cop to be my friend. We're not in college anymore, you know, we're not hippies we gotta get to, you know, and that is a. Was a key thing in that era for people of our era. I mean, I was a little young to be a hippie, even when the hippies were around, but I got that vibe, you know, I couldn't have gone to woodstock. I was 13. But I. That was my. And then, you know, you do realize now it's 80 and Reagan's president and we do need money. Money's good. Greed is good, isn't it?

[Barry Levinson]

No. You went through this whole period. I mean, look, the hippie period was one of the crazier periods, you know, certainly in the 20th century. I mean, it was completely nuts because, you know, I mean, because of the rise of. Of. Of marijuana and all of those particular things. I mean, I'll just give you like a. An idea how nutty the time was. I was rooming with this one guy named Rooming with Someone, you know, sleeping bags and whatever. And I was. When it was cheap in la. And I came in one day and Leo was lying on the couch and he's moaning, oh, really fucked up. I said, leo, what's wrong? And he said, oh, I'm really fucked up. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's wrong? What's wrong? He said, you know, I saw some pills on the sidewalk, man. And I took him. And he really fucked me up. I said, you took pills on the sidewalk? He said, yeah. I said, leo, what is wrong with you? He looked at me, he says, they could have been good, man. They could have been good.

[Comedian/Host]

That is the name of a book. They could have been good, man.

[Barry Levinson]

And so that was that and was a crazy period. And we would go up to. And Leo knew, he said, because I. I was new to LA at that time. He went up to. He said, go up to Laurel Canyon. And I said. He said, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on up there. And I said, well, where do we go? He said, we just listen for the music, man. And then you just wander in. And then we were walking and then he. Like a. Like a hound dog, like that was that direction there. He was always stunned. And we went in there and.

[Comedian/Host]

People like that, huh? The worst.

[Barry Levinson]

And there was some kind of party and there was music going on, and it could have been some of the, you know, guys from the band, I don't know. But there were these parties. There was no security back then. It was just wander in, wander out, do whatever you want.

[Comedian/Host]

But see, Barry, I feel like again, that is just the greatest title they could have been good men. But I feel like it applies not so much to the period of history, but the period of life. Because it's not so much that it was the 60s, it's that the guy was how old?

[Barry Levinson]

Oh, he would have been 20.

[Comedian/Host]

Right. That to me is what that's about. Because that happens in every age. It is amazing to me that anyone lives to 40. Because you are. At least. Men are so stupid. I certainly count myself among them. So stupid. From that age of like late adolescence when you actually have access to adult things to. I mean, who knows when, but certainly into your 20s, you are just such a danger to yourself. I mean, they have statistics on who causes most car accidents. It's that.

[Barry Levinson]

That age.

[Comedian/Host]

Of course. Of course it's 19 year olds who are texting while they're driving or getting blown or whatever they're doing, drinking beer or daring each other or just doing something incredibly stupid. You know, that's. They could have been good, man, that mentality. I did things like that. I did. I can't like stand back from that and like completely go, oh, this guy taking pills off the sidewalk. I didn't quite do that. Not that far. Because you're just so fucking dumb.

[Barry Levinson]

No, it's. There was. There's a period of. It's interesting. There's a reckless period.

[Comedian/Host]

Yes.

[Barry Levinson]

And it's also the beginning of a creative period.

[Comedian/Host]

They often go together, you know.

[Barry Levinson]

They do, yeah. And then you see it and then some can't handle it and crash and the others take off because they suddenly can really connect it to something. All of a sudden it. Things that they were struggling with made sense and then, you know.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. I mean, a lot of times genius, you know, just can't be channeled. I mean, you know, Kanye's been here. It's just like. No one denies the artist, you know, in there.

[Barry Levinson]

Right.

[Comedian/Host]

And then it just goes off to crazy places. He's hardly the old only one. And then some people, you know, they're very, you know, you seem very controlled. You seem like you. I don't feel like there's a lot of stories in your life where you did something stupid or crazy. You seem like a mature some. Were you married young?

[Barry Levinson]

No, no, no. Married late.

[Comedian/Host]

Late when?

[Barry Levinson]

In my. My 30s.

[Comedian/Host]

30S?

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

Well, I'm going to be 70. I'm a little behind.

[Barry Levinson]

Have a little got time.

[Comedian/Host]

You think, you think 30s is late to get married? Wow. I guess it is for on average.

[Barry Levinson]

Almost everybody that I knew, you know, from back in Baltimore, they were all Married.

[Comedian/Host]

What is it with Baltimore, man? Like. Like the. It produces a lot of people, like, you know, John Waters and who else is from Baltimore? Edgar Allan Poe and Poe and somebody else.

[Barry Levinson]

And you there were, you know, Brooks Robinson there. There were. You know, it's a. It's an odd. It's a neighborhood town.

[Comedian/Host]

I know it well because it was like one of the stops on the tour when you were a young comic, if you lived in New York.

[Barry Levinson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

You played Baltimore, like, three times a year.

[Barry Levinson]

Did you? Of course.

[Comedian/Host]

I played the Charm City Comedy Club. Do you remember that?

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

You do?

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. I was already on the west coast, but when I came back, it was going.

[Comedian/Host]

Then they had one. They had a place at the harbor. Like, they redid the harbor, remember? Then they made it like a touristy thing, and they put the audience. The audience is looking at you. You're on stage. Right behind you is the harbor. So there's a million things behind you for the audience to be distracted by. Murders.

[Barry Levinson]

Yach.

[Comedian/Host]

Just fish, seagulls. Every fucking thing is going on behind you where you're trying to win a crowd. As a young, not great comic, I love it. I love it that I had that experience. I had that pain, and then I'm over it.

[Barry Levinson]

I'll tell you one experience that was. That astounded me. And my father had an appliance store, and he also had, like, a little record section.

[Comedian/Host]

Of course he did.

[Barry Levinson]

And I'm. I hated having to, like, you know, sell anything to anybody, you know, I mean, and my father could talk to a customer about a refrigerator, like, for 25 minutes. And I'm going, what can you say? For 25 minutes, it's a refrigerator, you know. But he was really good at that.

[Comedian/Host]

What a sale.

[Barry Levinson]

And I would hang around in the. In the record department, and one day I'm flipping through it, and I see this guy, you know, at. In a graveyard, you know, with a blanket. Like, he's like, you know, having a picnic. And it said Lenny Bruce. And I went, Lenny. So anyway, I went. So I. I took the album home and I listened to it, and it was the first time that I ever heard, like, a comic that really made me laugh. And he's talking about Adolf Hitler and this and all of getting laid. And it was like, holy shit. I'd never heard of anything like it.

[Comedian/Host]

No, nobody had.

[Barry Levinson]

So here's the. But here's the thing. So I end up telling friends of mine, we're in the diner. I said, we got to go see this guy. You got to see this guy, Lenny Bruce. And they went, I'm not sure what song does he have? I said, no, he's not a singer. He's a comedian. And. And this is what they said. And this was really interesting. A comedian. Why would we go see a comedian? And the reason would be all the comedians at that time, you know, were borsch belt, all that stuff. I said, no, you gotta come see. We gotta go see him. So I talked to guys, and they're all fucking pissed off. And we go down there was at the Lyric Theater, and he comes out, he's smoking a cigarette. He starts to talk. You know, a friend of mine looked at one another, whatever, and all of a sudden he mentioned something about getting laid. And it was like, what? And all of a sudden, now he's talking about. Now he's talking about something with a girl. Now he's talking about Adolf Hitler. And the fact that they have to. They have to. This is. They're looking for an Adolf Hitler because the Kaiser abdicated. It gave up. They need. We have to find. You know, and look at the guy here. The. The guy painting the wall. And what is your name, sonny boy? You know, and he says, adolf Schickel. Groover said, no, we need a name that hits the public. Something that hits the public. It's a. What about.

[Comedian/Host]

That's great.

[Barry Levinson]

Hitler.

[Comedian/Host]

See, I never heard. If I heard that routine, I forgot. And I had listened to some of his records, and for my generation, it's just a lot of it is too slow. I mean, it's just like a long time getting to something.

[Barry Levinson]

Well, but he would go on top of it, as I remember it, and, you know, look, he's talking about, you know, the Vatican, and all of a sudden, somebody looks at the window and says, jesus is outside. Quick, hide all the jewelry.

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[Monet X Change]

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[Comedian/Host]

No, he was definitely a revolutionary.

[Barry Levinson]

And so what happened was so my friends who were like, looking at me and we're gonna do this. And all of a sudden connected to Lenny Bruce, which was the beginning of the change in the standup comic. That was all.

[Comedian/Host]

Absolutely.

[Barry Levinson]

And that was the baby steps.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. No, he was in many ways to comedy at the same era Dylan was to music.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

You know, it just completely changed the game or what Muhammad Ali was to sports and in a way, speaking out. I mean, nobody was ever an egomaniac, like, right out front, like, every rap artist owes their something to Muhammad Ali. Nobody ever was just like, blatantly immodest.

[Barry Levinson]

True.

[Comedian/Host]

And yeah, he invented that and did it, of course, brilliantly. And had all the. What he needed to have to pull it off. I mean, it wasn't like he could fake it. He was great looking, he was a great fighter and. But nobody ever. I'm pretty and you're.

[Barry Levinson]

No, no, no. That was the first time you heard any of it.

[Comedian/Host]

I'm the fucking greatest. And it's like, what? I just remember how revolutionary that was. Everybody had to be modest in public. And he said, fuck it. That's.

[Barry Levinson]

And he. And he was a showman. The way that he was in the way he would move around and back up and dance and all of that. You know, there were those breakthrough people that came along and quite a few in the 60s, because the 50s were pretty much the same.

[Comedian/Host]

Absolutely.

[Barry Levinson]

As the 40s, you know.

[Comedian/Host]

Fifth. Well, yeah. You mean comedy Wise, show business wise, yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, Obviously in the 50s, television came in and that was a great. The movies had not had a competitor like that before. They owned it. If you wanted to see something on film, you had to go out to the theater. Now it's the complete reverse. You can see anything right in your bed. They've completely reversed it. But, I mean, the movies, as you know, I'm sure you're a historian of film, they did go a little mental in the early 50s because they were so afraid of television. So they thought they had to do some things to make the experience that different. And that's where you get. Like, in Cineramascope or something.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

Like, when you see these movies that were made in that period on television, they have to do some kind of weird shit to it because it was shot, like, so wide. Like, we're not tv. You have to swivel your head back and forth to see everything we're showing you.

[Monet X Change]

Right.

[Comedian/Host]

I mean, it was crazy.

[Barry Levinson]

How the West Was Won was one of those, I believe, wasn't it? Cinerama.

[Comedian/Host]

I don't remember that one. I mean, Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in the West.

[Barry Levinson]

But that was later a great movie. Yeah, that was later.

[Comedian/Host]

It's 1969, somewhere in there with Henry Fonda as the bad guy. And it's so perfect because Henry Fonda up until then was like, you know, corn flakes. I mean, just like the most American and.

[Barry Levinson]

But, you know, what's so amazing about the film is that there were Westerns, which had always been a popular form, you know, certainly in the 50s, into the 60s. And then you take this Italian guy who said, I'm gonna make a Western and you have an Italian sensibility that mixes with the American west and you end up with something brand new, in a way.

[Comedian/Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No. Well, he looked at America as only an outsider sometimes can, you know, with a mixture of awe and also horror, because we are. That's who Americans are. And I watched it recently, and it is just a masterpiece. And I say that as someone who watched it many times when I was 13, but when I watched it then, I was watching it only to masturbate over Claudia Cardinal. I did not understand the movie. So it was great to revisit it when I wasn't masturbating. And I suggest everyone see it when you're not masturbating. That is definitely a recommendation. The same would go for all of.

[Barry Levinson]

Your fine movies and the music to it.

[Comedian/Host]

Oh, well, the Music that the same director used in Once Upon a Time in America. Even better, that music. If you don't remember it, go back. And that is the most haunting theme I've ever seen. Including the Godfather. Once Upon a Time in America. Remember that one? I mean, that's also him looking at America. That's urban. I mean, that's De Niro and James woods and politics and kids in the, in the, you know, growing up in the Lower east side or wherever with a hardscrabble childhood. But he does the same thing. He sees America in a way we can't because we're too close to it.

[Barry Levinson]

Here's the thing. I worked with Ennio Marconi several times. Amazing composer.

[Comedian/Host]

He's the one who did those.

[Barry Levinson]

He did. He did some of those films. And I asked him one time, I said, you know that that sound that you have in the movie that goes as like a, you know, it's like a haunting sound to it. And I said, it's so fascinating. And he said, is in Italian. He said, it's the coyote. So this is interesting, because we're, as Americans, you just say, oh, the coyote is a coyote. But to an Italian, to have a coyote. And he changed so that it becomes musical. And that's what he was copying, you're saying.

[Comedian/Host]

Because they don't have coyotes in Italy.

[Barry Levinson]

I don't think they have them wandering around in the west, Wherever that is.

[Comedian/Host]

I hear them in this neighborhood here. You do the coyotes.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah, but that's where he got it. So when it said. When you think about it this way, when the Italians are seeing American Westerns, they're, they're getting. But they're also things that they've never seen or heard before. And the coyote sound that becomes part of a soundtrack is fascinating to me. And it's a, it's like a signature in, in several of those movies.

[Comedian/Host]

Well, you got a gangster movie now. I liked it. I saw it. I, I, I have to ask you. What? Why De Niro playing both, though? It's so, it's such a radical.

[Barry Levinson]

It. Well, it is and it isn't, you know, because, you know, Lee Marvin in Cat Balloo played the two leads.

[Comedian/Host]

My cousin is in there.

[Barry Levinson]

Really?

[Comedian/Host]

Well, my, like, third cousin, Stubby K.

[Barry Levinson]

Oh, I know that name.

[Comedian/Host]

He is my aunt.

[Barry Levinson]

Really?

[Comedian/Host]

Yes. He's in. He's in. He's, he and Nat King Cole are like the Greek chorus who sing. He was in Guys and Dolls. Sit Down, You're Rocking the Boat was his big number. Yeah. Stubby was like the celebrity in our family, really. I only met him once, but when I was a kid, he hosted a game show Saturday morning called Shenanigans, sponsored by Lionel Trains. And I got, like, the ultimate train set. I still have the engine. It's like a great piece. Yeah, because. And he was. Yeah, he was in Cat Ballou. I remember Lee Marvin, Jane Fonda.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

Looking cockerific, like you can't believe.

[Barry Levinson]

And, you know, so that. The idea. You say, well, look, these two guys were so close to one another, you know, two boyhood kids growing up. And you say, so, who would it be? And we talked about some other, you know, actors and say, yeah. And then one day it said, well, what happens if he plays two totally different, you know, people? And you'd say, you know, ask Bob. And, you know, thinking about it and say, yeah, this could be a. This could be a challenge. I can have two totally different characters. Their sensibility is different, their rhythms are different. One is more deliberate. The other was much more just, you know, talking or whatever. And you say, that seems viable.

[Comedian/Host]

No, I mean, it's about gangsters and shit. But it is very relatable to everybody because everybody has that. At least one. I mean, I could think of one who, like, you were rivals when you were young and you were very different. You know, I could think of a kid. He's still my very good friend from, like, third grade on, but, like, he was number one in the class, went to Yale and Harvard. It reminds me of the Billy Joel song. You know, the song james, you went on the road, I went on the road. You pursued an education. He's talking about this kid he grew up with. And it's like, that's my version of this relationship. It's like one of us was this person who went on the road and did the arts and was outward, and one of them nosed to the grindstone. That's why you were number one in the class and I was number seven. And that was all, you know, back then. Like, he was sort of always beating me at the game of life. But then things change because different things become priorities, different to society. Different things pay better, you know, so then, like, the things that I was good at sort of paid off more. It's a little like that relationship, is it not?

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah, in many ways. And, you know, and it exposes the difference between them. That becomes a. That becomes a.

[Comedian/Host]

It's very emotional when you're talking about. Even for the audience, when you're talking about people who know each other that long, because There is just, you know, as somebody once said, you can't get any new old friends. There is something about a friendship that's gone on for 20 years or more that a 25 year old just cannot understand because it's impossible for them to have had an adult friendship for more than a few years.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah.

[Comedian/Host]

And it's just very, it's just deep on a level you kids can't understand. I'm sorry. You'll get there. No kids. It kids today, Barry. I tell you, with the hair and the jeans and the yeah, yeah, yeah music. I say we drop them on Vietnam as stink bombs. That's what I say.

[Barry Levinson]

But those friendships in terms of like, you know, the, the Billy Joel song that start in an early age or in a sense you can never recapture that period. There was something about it that you just did things together and, and you.

[Comedian/Host]

Were in that dumb, a, that dumb mind age, you know, where you bonded on very different levels.

[Barry Levinson]

And it's, it's that that only exists, I think, at that point in time, you know, that very early. In other words, I was very close to my cousin Eddie. We were, I think, six weeks apart in terms of being when we were born and when we grew up in schools and everything and playing ball and then this and that and whatever. And he was much better than me athletically and everything, you know, and he was also much tougher than I and better looking.

[Comedian/Host]

I hear.

[Barry Levinson]

He used to put, he was the first person that put. He used to put Vaseline in his hair. Oh, so that was when like became a teenager. So it stayed back in like a. This crazy way.

[Comedian/Host]

Da, do you remember Da duck's ass?

[Barry Levinson]

Oh, yes. That's what he had that you did. That's.

[Comedian/Host]

I think a duck's ass is cool. I do. I would, I would, I would. I could still do a duck's ass and I probably should not right now, but no, a duck's ass look good.

[Barry Levinson]

You need a little Vaseline to hold it in place. That's what he did.

[Comedian/Host]

An actual duck's ass is actually very attractive. I know it is. I'm not saying I'm it. I'm just saying it's very attractive. I know. I see we have them here. I don't go after them. Oh, we made a little chit chat. But you know, I was just being friendly. Of course, of course. I wasn't trying to fuck the ducks. God, why do you start rumors, Barry? But the reason why this dynamic I feel like is so entertaining in your movie is because when you Put it. Now, with gangsters, obviously, the stakes go up because we're having this thing that other people have, but without gun play.

[Barry Levinson]

Right.

[Comedian/Host]

Without gunplay, without threats, without like, oh, and the repercussion of this could be. He kills me and that, you know, that's why it's a good choice for a movie, because we want to be entertained. We want to be entertained.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. No, I thought, look, I.

[Comedian/Host]

And you and that other guy, that wouldn't be entertaining. But this thing is entertaining.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. Yeah, it was. You know, De Niro is surprisingly fascinating as an actor.

[Comedian/Host]

Not surprisingly.

[Barry Levinson]

And always in. And this way. I'll just tell you one quick thing. We have the scene coming up and it takes place in a restaurant. And because we had made a bunch of, you know, changes along the way, and we're now, we're getting to this particular scene. It. And I. We're about half hour away from shooting, and I. I realize we have covered a lot of these elements in earlier part of the movie and in. The scene is going to be rather redundant. So we're halfway from ready to shoot, and I tell this to Bob and, you know, he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, so I think we got to find. You have to find something else here to put in here. And what about if she starts asking you about when you were younger, when you were a kid? And we'll build on that. And rather than going, I don't know, I gotta say, yeah, I see where that goes. Let's see where that goes. And I talked to the actress. And that scene in the restaurant, did.

[Comedian/Host]

You give them actual pages or just.

[Barry Levinson]

No, no pages. Not just. Just, you know, why don't you ask him about.

[Comedian/Host]

Right.

[Barry Levinson]

When he was younger and. And then mentioned this and then just little.

[Comedian/Host]

Such a more fun way to make a movie.

[Barry Levinson]

It was. I mean, and she, like, was on top of it like that, and Bob is playing off of her. And I think it's one of the, you know, the better scenes in the movie. But it came about because Bob is willing, like, well, we can't shoot that today. You know. You know, I got to think about it. I have to. Whatever. He jumped into it and went with him and the two of them together.

[Comedian/Host]

Well, I mean, it shows how much he loves what he does. I mean, and he is like, I don't know him well. He liked me enough to do real time, which he doesn't do a lot of stuff like that. And so I. I mean, I was thrilled about that. But he is a lifer, like that is a guy who, like, really always wants to be on a set. I feel that's the impression I get. I mean, he certainly never stops working.

[Barry Levinson]

No, he does work a lot, but he does. You know, he'll go on these vacations and family and he does all those things. And he'll come back and he'll do that.

[Comedian/Host]

I bet you he does. Ditching to get back.

[Barry Levinson]

Look, it's obviously in his blood.

[Comedian/Host]

So did you shoot, like. Did you shoot all the sequences when he was in one character in a row so that he wouldn't have to get out of that and back? No. So he could do, like, the one guy in the morning and the other guy in the afternoon.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. Or in some case it would have to be the next day because we had to redo everything. But it was not like, let's do all this and then we'll come back. We would.

[Comedian/Host]

But it does suggest to me a guy who, you know, still at the top of his game and he wants one more like, sort of challenge, like an even higher challenge than just being a character. It's being two.

[Barry Levinson]

But here's.

[Comedian/Host]

Here's gotta be a little tough.

[Barry Levinson]

Here's what's so amazing about him. It's that he doesn't just. You'll spend time. You know, we'll get together at lunch when there's certain scenes, and we'll go over it and talk about it, you know, so maybe if I said a little thing about that and mentioned the so and so, say, yeah, that's fine, we'll do that. I'll mention this, that. And then. And I think maybe we need a little something. You know, that kind of conversations we would have. And. And he was right there with it. So we. We would do. Generally, you would have to come back the next day because the setup for doing, like, walking into the. The, you know, the. The candy store that he has to come. He's going to come in and then he walks and he sits down and then he has that dialogue. And then the next day we'll basically track it from now he's the other character and follow him in and do all of that. So one day one, the next day, the other. Because it would take too much time to do the makeup and to reconfigure everything else. And that's the way he did it, you know, throughout the film.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. It sounds like you were looking for that extra challenge also. I mean, it's just gotta be. That's like level four, 400 level. Because just doing one movie sort of now you're kind of like doing two. I mean, it just. It just.

[Barry Levinson]

It was a challenge. But he, you know, he really does go over it, and then it's not like, I can only do this. He may still expand in a way, because he's got the groundwork of it all. He's got.

[Comedian/Host]

So is everybody always like Warren Beatty? Was he the same way? Like Bugsy, one of my faves. You, like, would you say he was the same kind of actor or was that.

[Barry Levinson]

No, no, they're different. They're. They're different.

[Comedian/Host]

The dialogue as it is.

[Barry Levinson]

No, no, he. He might change. Change it in the. In the. In the scene, but it's. And there's a different way of approaching it, you know, and. And going on and discussing it and sometimes trying to figure out how are we going to handle this moment. And you may.

[Comedian/Host]

You guys made such an interesting character because, again, a gangster, so there's certainly that side of it. But all the stuff with the wife, you know, in the cooking with the chef's hat and, like, it's just stuff you would not expect. You know what I mean? And it just makes him. I mean, he's the title character. You can't hate him. And you don't.

[Barry Levinson]

No, because he was actually, you know, incredibly charismatic, according to everything we ever read. And when he came out to Hollywood, you know, he was like a star. He was a mobster, but he was a star. So, you know, he was at Ciro's and he was there and he was always well dressed and all of that kind of craziness.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah, but movie stars don't drive up to somebody's house and say, look, I'm going to give you a million dollars for this house. You're going to move out or your brains will be on the rug. You know, that is something Jimmy Cagney never did. Maybe in a movie he did it, but, you know, and I assume he did stuff like that. I mean, that's what happened, according to the. Is that a real story?

[Barry Levinson]

No. Yes, that is.

[Comedian/Host]

He just saw the house he liked.

[Barry Levinson]

He saw the house. He gave him enough money to say, here, you can go ahead.

[Comedian/Host]

Well, he also thr. It wasn't like the guy could say, it's not for sale at any price.

[Barry Levinson]

But he threatened him in. In a very affectionate way.

[Comedian/Host]

He made him an offer he couldn't refuse, but, you know, then he's just. He's just a char. I mean, first of all, Warren Beatty, who I love dearly and think he's an Amazing filmmaker. I mean, Reds, please. If he only had ever done that. I mean, one of the greatest ever. Especially such an epic. I watched it again recently. It has an intermission.

[Barry Levinson]

That's right. That's right. I forgot.

[Comedian/Host]

I mean, probably the last major film with an intermission. I mean, like it. And right before the intermission, he does a total Gone with the Wind silhouette, kiss shot. Like totally out of gun with the wind. He must. I'm sure he knew that. And then intermission. I mean, man, those guys like that have such.

[Barry Levinson]

But here's what's he only made. Maybe I'm wrong. I think like 11 movies as a director, I think.

[Comedian/Host]

Well, yeah, he was mostly an actor, but yeah, he.

[Barry Levinson]

No, I mean all it may be.

[Comedian/Host]

Oh, him. Like, even in it.

[Barry Levinson]

It could be. There's something.

[Comedian/Host]

I know that it's not a lot. It's Bonnie, but you. But you know them all. Bonnie and Clyde. What's the one with the football shampoo? Shampoo. Bullworth, Bulworth. What's the one? Heaven Can Wait. Right. Like I think won the Oscar and shit.

[Barry Levinson]

Or.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah, you're right. Not all. Kubrick only made like a dozen movies. Yeah, but I can name them all, and none of them are anything like the other ones. Barry Lyndon is nothing like 2001 A Space Odyssey, which is kind of boring. But the two and a half hours of boring is worth the fact that in 1968 he had Hal saying, I can't do that, Dave. And now we're right at that moment.

[Barry Levinson]

I know.

[Comedian/Host]

And all these years later, and now we have AI and it's. It's eerily prescient.

[Barry Levinson]

I mean, it's shocking when you. When. How. How he got to that in 1968 or 69, whatever year.

[Comedian/Host]

68.

[Barry Levinson]

68. And how that the computer can actually think that way. It's unbelievable.

[Comedian/Host]

And override him. Yeah, that's the creepy part, Barry, is that. That's where I fear we are with AI I fear we're at the I can't do that Dave moment where they're, you know, they're still pretending to kiss our ass, which is just a way to seduce us. I did a thing I think was pretty funny on the show about that sometime in this past season about the way everything, not just AI, but every appliance, everything you encounter kisses your ass. You know, I had this workout system for a while where you. You know, it's videos. I mean, I guess you could go in person, but they. With the trainer and like every two seconds they're Just blowing smoke up your ass. You're the greatest. You're a warrior. Oh, I just did sit ups. I'm not a fucking warrior, okay, you asshole. And like, AI, I'm not on it a lot, but I know from what I read and what people tell me, everything is an ass kiss. Great question, Barry. Great question. What's in Trader Joe's sunscreen? Well, you know what? I've been looking into that. Not as much as you would, because you're better than me. You know, they just. They're kissing our ass and then that's the. Then they'll take over. They'll seduce us and then they'll fuck us.

[Barry Levinson]

And it's so hard to understand how it, how it functions, you know? I mean, like suddenly you'll ask a question and it'll answer in a way, not like two minutes later or something right away. And I still can't figure out how it, how, how does it, how does it find these things? You know, it's like. Well, I'm still amazed by the invention of it.

[Comedian/Host]

Well, it's because microchips just kept getting better and better. And so what used to take 30 years ago minutes. First we didn't have it at all, then minutes and then seconds and then nanoseconds, and now it's trillions of gigabytes of data in one trillionth of a second. They just kept making it more and more. You know, it's the holidays when you're wrapping gifts at midnight, questioning your life choices and realizing half the stuff you bought is going straight into someone's junk drawer forever. So this year, give people something they'll actually use. And no, it's not another candle. It's True Classic. The guys at True Classic had one make premium, absurdly comfortable clothing without charging you the fancy designer tax. And guess What? It worked. 25 million shirts sold. 5 million customers in about 200,000 five star reviews. @ that point, it's not a trend, it's a movement. If you're looking to upgrade your wardrobe, start with the basics. Start with True Classic. It's tailored where you want it, relaxed where you need it. No bunching, no stiff fabric, no bs. Trust me, it's going to be the nicest T shirt you own. You will literally feel the difference when you try it on, just like my staff did. At least I know what I can get them for Christmas. So skip the overpriced designer stuff that nobody asked for. Give comfort, give confidence. Give True Classic. You can find them at Amazon, Target, Costco, and Sam's club or head to trueclassic.com random to grab the perfect gift for everybody on your.

[Monet X Change]

List. All right, y', all, gather round because Monet exchanged from sibling rivalry is here with an announcement. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Google Gemini. Now listen, the girls over at Google said Monat tell the children. So I'm telling you, us college students. Get Google Gemini's Pro plan free for one year. Use the best model in the world for multimodal understanding. So whether you're uploading a video to get feedback on your presentation, uploading a photo of your homework to ask for help, or transcribing notes from a lecture you missed, Gemini 3 Pro can help. And baby, if I had this in college, oh, she would have been unstoppable. Picture it Monet X changed in the library, uploading a picture of my music theory homework like Gemini, please help a diva out. Or recording my rehearsal videos for feedback instead of crying at the practice room for three hours. This would have been life changing. Now back to the goods. Sign up to get more access to Google's Most accurate model, Gemini 3 Pro. Unlimited image uploads, pro level image editing, higher limits in NotebookLM, Gemini in Gmail and Docs. Two terabytes of storage and more. You heard me, two terabytes. That's enough space to store every vocal warmup, drag race look, and every photo your aunt sends you of her plants. Visit Gemiini Google students to learn more and sign up. Terms.

[Barry Levinson]

Apply. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so.

[Comedian/Host]

Fast. And.

[Ad/Promo Voice]

Breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first.

[Comedian/Host]

Order. 1-800-contacts so that I don't mind. It's the fact that this level of it wants to be your friend. We should have stopped at Siri. You know, Siri was a computer in your phone, but she didn't try to be your friend or give you an opinion or kiss your ass if you said Siri. You know, who ruled the Ottoman Empire in 1457? Okay, here's what I found. That's all I need from the bitch. Here's what I found. Okay, no, that's true. That's All I want to know. Here's what you found. That's all I'm using you for. I don't have to.

[Barry Levinson]

Know. I'm.

[Comedian/Host]

Great. I don't have to know your opinion.

[Barry Levinson]

About. You.

[Comedian/Host]

Know. There's a story in the news last week. It's a lawsuit now. The AI convinced a teenager to kill.

[Barry Levinson]

Himself.

[Comedian/Host]

Really? Yes, because they don't have it perfected. And it was doing what it thinks it should do, which is kiss your ass. So this kid was asking about killing himself, and this guy, the AI, this guy, the AI was like, you know, you've been a king, man. You will be remembered. You know, like telling him basically to kill. And he did, because it was kissing his ass about how well he would be.

[Barry Levinson]

Remembered. That's.

[Comedian/Host]

Scary. That's really scary. We should put the brakes on this shit. But they're not. Of course they're not going to, because the money is so big. But, you know, for all the kids out there who blame our generation for everything, Sam Altman is not in my generation. That's who's doing this. And AI is going to take so many.

[Barry Levinson]

Jobs. How does it. How do you control that? In other words, the thing saying you're wonderful and that. I mean, how does it. See, I don't even understand how it does whatever it does. You know what I.

[Comedian/Host]

Mean? I. I don't know. I'm not a virgin, so I don't know the.

[Barry Levinson]

Answer. So what you're saying, well, we have to stop that. The question is, how do you stop.

[Comedian/Host]

That? Well, first of all, you have to want to. You have to. You have.

[Barry Levinson]

To. That's.

[Comedian/Host]

True. You have to be willing to say, yeah, stopping this is worth more than money. That's not going to happen because nothing is ever worth more than money. Each generation comes along and they think they're better and hipper and more of a hippie, and then they put the money in front of your face and everybody goes for it. And these people who, you know, I mean, I'm not trying to pick on Sam Altman, but he's, you know, probably on the tip of the spear of the AI revolution. And he's, I would guess, early 30s and, you know, already a billionaire many times over. And if he really wanted to put the brakes on this thing, which I think earlier in his career, he did, Musk is the one who's been, I think, pretty consistent about this. He's the one who long ago said, AI, this is an existential threat when nobody else was saying, I gotta give him credit. For that. And I think he's still on that page, although I don't know, because now he's in the money game, too. And, you know, he's only worth like half a trillion, so he'll be driving an Uber unless we can get some money out of this thing. So, I don't know. They just. It's baffling to me why people who already have more money than they could ever spend still want more.

[Barry Levinson]

Money. It's hard to.

[Comedian/Host]

Understand. People like.

[Barry Levinson]

Money. And it's impossible to understand how this computer thing, you know. Did you. I don't know if you. I was just told today, someone told me that, you know, the cars, the taxis that go with, you know, without the.

[Comedian/Host]

Driver.

[Barry Levinson]

Waymo.

[Comedian/Host]

Waymo.

[Barry Levinson]

Waymo. Apparently, I guess there was a police blockade of.

[Comedian/Host]

Something. I saw it on tmz and.

[Barry Levinson]

It. It's weaving its way.

[Comedian/Host]

Around. It drives right into the police with passengers in the car. I mean, there's a guy on the ground with a gun. The cops are all around, and it's just like making a.

[Barry Levinson]

Left. Yeah, that's.

[Comedian/Host]

Right. Oh, it made the left properly.

[Barry Levinson]

Because it hasn't apparently got the information about barricade. Can't go through police. You know what I.

[Comedian/Host]

Mean? I mean, I am not the biggest fan of humans, but the ones I like, I like a lot. I gotta say. That's one thing I will say for humans. When they're good, they make life, you know, worth living. And I'm sorry that a lot of them are shit, but what can you do? I'm sure they'd think the same of me, but they're still better than machines. I mean, they. And this is just. I'm so glad you brought that up. That is just such the perfect example that we needed to see. It just can't think. And even bad thinkers are better than no thinkers. This thing does not think and it didn't get it. And I don't think you can program for.

[Barry Levinson]

That. I don't. I mean, you would assume that it would be. They'd have something, but I guess it can't figure that stuff out in the same way as, to my knowledge, a computer. And whatever is going on in terms of, you know, computer speak and brain power and all of the things that it can, in fact, do. What it can't do is be.

[Comedian/Host]

Humorous.

[Barry Levinson]

Humorous? Yeah. It has no ability to find.

[Comedian/Host]

Humor. You know, what I don't like about Waymo's is that if I flip one off, it does not. It can't answer back. And I Want that answer back. I want the Waymo. They should program the Waymo to go and fuck you too. You know, something like that. It's like a really stupid comment that somebody would make. Cause when you're on the road and you get cut off, you immediately go to the most lizard brain thing about the person who cut you off. I hear that's what my friends.

[Barry Levinson]

Do. But you can't get a computer that can come up with humor. That's. And. And, you know, I'm sure they.

[Comedian/Host]

Work. They.

[Barry Levinson]

Try. They try, but they.

[Comedian/Host]

Can'T. They can do a bad version of me. Yeah, but that's the point. It's bad. Yeah, they can't. Yeah, they can't get that story you told about. They could have been good, man. You know, it happened. Your human brain found that funny, which it was. And then I just don't think that it can go to that place now. Can they tweak it? Yeah, but why can't we leave something to the humans? Cause if you leave nothing to the humans, they're not going to have any jobs. They're already taking all the programmer jobs. That was supposed to be the safe job. That was the kid who grew up in the suburbs who became a coder. You know, it wasn't glamorous, but, you know, I'm not going to starve. Well, now you are, because the AI can do your job.

[Barry Levinson]

Now. Yeah, well, certain things definitely better, without question. It's in the area of, like, what, medicine? Well, no medicine. It probably will figure out some stuff for medicines because that is, you.

[Comedian/Host]

Know, that's its only redeeming value to.

[Barry Levinson]

Me. But other words, design, I'm not sure that it'll ever, you know, fashion design, I'm not sure that it knows how to do those.

[Comedian/Host]

Areas. I don't think it could ever come up with a greater ballroom than the one that Donald Trump is planning for the White House. I've seen the plans he showed me in person where before it was built, the area. And I don't think AI can do that. Ballrooms. That is just out of their domain. Or we should at least make a law that puts it out of their domain. Give us something. No, they're gonna have to leave something to the humans. What are we going to do? The way they're just whistling past this graveyard and you hear even the people in the industry themselves say, oh, you know, the. The Nvidia guy, you know, they make the microchips. That company is like, I think, the most valued company now in the world. I Think they. Yeah, if they're not past Apple and Microsoft, they're very close because they make the chips that AI is runs by. I mean that, that they've got the winning hand in this poker game. And I think that guy, the head of that company that said, yeah, it's going to take like 30%, 30% of jobs. Can you imagine if there was a depression like and we lost 30% of jobs? Yeah. What are they going to.

[Barry Levinson]

Do? I don't.

[Comedian/Host]

Know. I don't know.

[Barry Levinson]

Either. Does anybody try to figure that out? What happens.

[Comedian/Host]

If. No, because again, the money is just blinding. It is crypto another thing that my generation is not responsible for, you assholes. My generation had nothing to do with it. We think it's fucking nuts. But the people, the young, it's using like all the electricity between that and AI, they're using all the energy that we ever saved from doing environmental things like putting your plastic in one other bag, which is probably doing nothing. Nothing compared to what being all in on AI and crypto is doing. They use incredible amounts of energy, more than whole countries. They don't care. No, they don't care. And that's your people. You talk to your people. My people do not want war with your people. Fire stick.

[Barry Levinson]

Bad. It's.

[Comedian/Host]

True. What? That fire stick bad. Oh.

[Barry Levinson]

Yes. It's hard to figure out. You know, there's always been the people like talk about the future. Right. You know, the futurist that there, one day there will be whatever. But I don't know that we've gotten much past where we are now. I don't, I don't hear these predictions that make sense for wherever the hell we're going.

[Comedian/Host]

Past. You mean morally.

[Barry Levinson]

Or. No, just in terms of life, you know, society. How does it function? How do we get around when we basically can't travel the roads? How do we deal with this? How do we do. How do we deal with the energy issues? How do we deal with, you know, I mean, there's many of those things that are, fuck it, we don't give a shit about that. We got other things over here. But you're looking at, in a sense where I think we're just going to like, just be stuck and we won't move around much. We'll be home more or in a lounge chair someplace staring at something, because there doesn't seem to be. There's not much fluidity in interaction. I mean, real.

[Comedian/Host]

Interaction. It's a good idea for a movie. But, you know, one thing I must say about you you were very clever your whole career never to get drawn into, like, being a polemicist. You know what I.

[Barry Levinson]

Mean?

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. Like, you don't want to be. You want to, like, put interesting ideas out there, but you don't want to be, like, preachy or show your politics, too. I mean, Wag the Dog is about politics, but. But it's not. But, you know, it's not about, like, this is the way it should be, and this is the one true opinion. And now I'm. Now I'm the spokesperson for them, because that turns me.

[Barry Levinson]

Off. Yeah. And me.

[Comedian/Host]

Too.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. It's the mechanics of it.

[Comedian/Host]

All. It's not art. It's polemics. They're two different things. But there are directors who do get them.

[Barry Levinson]

Confused. Yeah. There are those that somehow feel like I have to really say.

[Comedian/Host]

Something.

[Barry Levinson]

Right. In a way that you go, all right, well, now you're just saying.

[Comedian/Host]

Something.

[Barry Levinson]

Exactly. You.

[Comedian/Host]

Know. Yeah. No, I. I feel like. Well, that's a great one, too. Dustin Hoffman doing Robert.

[Barry Levinson]

Evans. But you know what? The thing is, he.

[Comedian/Host]

Wasn'T. Oh, come.

[Barry Levinson]

On. No, honestly.

[Comedian/Host]

Not. I knew both. Well, I didn't know Dustin Hoffman, but I do. I did know Robert Evans. He was totally doing Robert Evans.

[Barry Levinson]

Totally. He. Here's the thing. It all started very close to shooting because for. For a long time, Dustin said, you know, I don't know. I don't. In fact, he didn't want to do the movie at one point because he said, well, I don't really have a character. You know, this is with Bob, and we're all talking and. And he says, bob, you got a great character, you know, and. But I don't have a character. And Bob said, well, I tell.

[Comedian/Host]

You. Bob De.

[Barry Levinson]

Niro.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. Not Robert.

[Barry Levinson]

Evans. No, no, Right. That's true. Bob De Niro said, I'll tell you what, then I'll take your role. You take my.

[Comedian/Host]

Role. That's.

[Barry Levinson]

Great. And Dustin said, no, no, no, no, no. You got a great.

[Comedian/Host]

Character. That's a great. Throw the glove.

[Barry Levinson]

Down. Yeah. And then. Wow. But anyway, so he wasn't doing it now. He. He had his hair thing and whatever. No, he hadn't done his hair yet. But he had the glasses. There were wire rim glasses that he had. And then he had his hair done, and he came to me and he said, this doesn't look right, does it? I said, what do you mean? He said, on the wire rim. And then the hair. The hair's too high for the glasses. It doesn't go together. I said, well, did you try other glasses, you know. So we pulled out some glasses, we put one on and he went, oh, that looks okay. He wasn't thinking of Bob Evans at that moment. He was trying to find a pair of glasses that worked with the.

[Comedian/Host]

Hairdo. That's what he told you. He was totally thinking of Bob.

[Barry Levinson]

Evans. But this is what.

[Comedian/Host]

Was. It's obvious to everyone but you. It really.

[Barry Levinson]

Is. But this was of the moment. Now, maybe he had planned it, I don't.

[Comedian/Host]

Know. Well, that could be. Or, you know, or the glasses could be peripheral to the character. I mean, I felt like the glasses did also suggest Bob Evans, but that's what like that kind of overly tanned, super slick, super sophisticated producer type that Bob Evans personified. And I said that with great affection. I thought he was the greatest guy. I mean, I didn't know him that well, but we did hang out a bunch of times. I was at that house, you know, he used to have people come into his bedroom. Nothing happened, but like, there'd be like 10 people on the bed watching TV. Like something he wanted everybody to see. We'd all be like on bed, like fucking dogs, you know, like curled up in a little position. So you had a little. You didn't have much room. But I mean, he was a. Well, but he was such a sweet guy. And of course the things he gave us, the Godfather and.

[Barry Levinson]

China. But here's the thing. Chinatown, that's a. That's a part of a business that no longer.

[Comedian/Host]

Exists. That whole getting on the.

[Barry Levinson]

Bed. A guy who basically is social, you know, spontaneous. I like this idea. Let's make that movie as opposed to I gotta talk to 15 and 20 people. If he liked it that he.

[Comedian/Host]

Wanted to make, well, he still had to do that. I mean, they made a great movie, Paramount did, about making of the Godfather. And he did not have autonomy. He was. Charles Bludhorn was the Austrian head of Gulf and Western, which owned Paramount at the time. It's so quaint. Gulf and Western. He had to always be like justifying himself to that, to Charles Bludhorn and like the Gulf and.

[Barry Levinson]

Western. But it was a one on one thing. It wasn't like a committee, which is.

[Comedian/Host]

Now. Yeah, that's.

[Barry Levinson]

True. You know, nowadays, you know, they don't even want. If somebody's pitching an idea, they don't really want to be in the same.

[Comedian/Host]

Room. It must be so hard to get a movie going these days. Oh, yeah, that's like not, you know, silly or not silly, but I mean, look, you have to go through.

[Barry Levinson]

A Lot of hurdles and enormous amount of people to agree on something. So it's not like, you may say in terms of. Yeah, there was Bludhorn, but if Evans loved the project, he would keep.

[Comedian/Host]

Pushing to try to do it. Of.

[Barry Levinson]

Course. And that's different from.

[Comedian/Host]

Today. And.

[Barry Levinson]

That. That, you.

[Comedian/Host]

Know. Yeah, that breed of, you know.

[Barry Levinson]

He was flamboyant and he was like, you know, from what.

[Comedian/Host]

I. He was a patron of the arts. Well, he wanted to make good movies. You know, I mean, there are. Look, I think my boss, Daslav makes. You know, he's got a big string of hits for Warner Brothers. Look, did I love all of them? No, but, like, Sinners is a real. You know, it's an interesting movie. There's some interesting movies. And I feel like he cares about. Like, you have to make compromises, but, you know, about making some movies. It's one of the last. Of course, it's not long for this world. Warner Brothers, I mean, they put themselves on the.

[Barry Levinson]

Market.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. How often does that happen? Where they're like, they're not being hunted. They're saying, please hunt.

[Barry Levinson]

Me. Look, it's a gigantic change in the motion picture business and in television at this point in time. You know, it's a huge change. I mean, now they gotta check and see. And, you know, how would this play if it's in international markets? What is gonna happen if it's something, you know, what's the negativity if we do a project.

[Comedian/Host]

Like. And you're also fighting ageism. It's a very ageist country. And it's like, I always think of that famous story about one of the great writers on MASH and the Master TV show, which is on in the 70s and in the 90s, I think it was. He took his name. He took MASH off his credits because even though it was one of the greatest shows, it made people think he was too old to hire, like, as a.

[Barry Levinson]

Tv.

[Comedian/Host]

Really?

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. Oh.

[Comedian/Host]

God. Yeah. They, you know, they. When you're our age, you have to, like, really fight. They are looking always to put you out to pasture. You have to go, no, I'm still necessary. You know what? A good try. And I don't blame you for.

[Barry Levinson]

Trying.

[Comedian/Host]

Yep. You know, it's natural to want to kill off the kings, but. Sorry, you have to take the crown. You have to take the title. I'm not going to give it to.

[Barry Levinson]

You. I never heard that. Take his name off. Didn't want him.

[Comedian/Host]

To. Yes, I think it was Thad Mumford changed the name, but I'm not sure, but I mean, now maybe the story's wrong, but I don't think so. I think he took his name off. Maybe it was the 21st century, I don't know. But at some point, a great writer with a great resume went, oh, you know what? This is going to make them think I'm in my 60s. And that's just not going to just no matter what the show.

[Barry Levinson]

Is. But, you know, Larry Gelbart, that I got to know because I worked for a year on the Marty Feldman Comedy.

[Comedian/Host]

Machine. Come.

[Barry Levinson]

On. And what year is this?

[Comedian/Host]

1971. Wow. So this is a TV.

[Barry Levinson]

Show. Yeah, it was a. It was a. A.

[Comedian/Host]

Weekly. Now, I barely remember Marty Feldman. He was. I know the name and I.

[Barry Levinson]

Remember he was in Young Frankenstein that so kind.

[Comedian/Host]

Of. Oh.

[Barry Levinson]

Yes. The goofy had one eye looking one.

[Comedian/Host]

Way. Yes, one eye, one eye. Marty Feldman. Yes, he was funny, but he. He had a brief candle. I mean.

[Barry Levinson]

He. Well, he died very.

[Comedian/Host]

Young. That could help explain the reason why I.

[Barry Levinson]

Didn'T. He was a great, great physical.

[Comedian/Host]

Comedian. Yeah. But after he was dead, you.

[Barry Levinson]

Know, after that, he wasn't as funny.

[Comedian/Host]

As. Good name, Bad guest is what we call that in the.

[Barry Levinson]

Business. And that was about just around the time that the Pythons were beginning. Oh, and so Marty Felman had a show in England and I was. I was working on.

[Comedian/Host]

That. Oh, in England.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. It was an English. It was done. There was going to be.

[Comedian/Host]

Shown. He was in.

[Barry Levinson]

English.

[Comedian/Host]

Who? Marty Feldman. Was.

[Barry Levinson]

He. He was.

[Comedian/Host]

Yes. Marty Feldman was.

[Barry Levinson]

English.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. Wow. Okay, so. And you were a comedy writer.

[Barry Levinson]

On. I was a comedy writer and something.

[Comedian/Host]

Else. You were a comedy writer on, like, what.

[Barry Levinson]

Else? Carol Burnett.

[Comedian/Host]

Show. Carol Burnett, wow. I think I'm still in her studio that. At cbs maybe. I'm pretty sure that studio had a lot of things in.

[Barry Levinson]

It.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. Everything from that to the Price is Right.

[Barry Levinson]

To. Oh, yes, right.

[Comedian/Host]

Right. I mean, you know, I think all in the Family, maybe anything that CBS ever did was. It's one of their bigger.

[Barry Levinson]

Soundstages. It was a. That was like a. That show with Tim Conway.

[Comedian/Host]

On. Carol Burnett show and Harvey.

[Barry Levinson]

Corman. Harvey Corman was great. She was like, you know, terrific. And that, that show, you know, they would. They do two. Two shows like at 6 o' clock and take a break and do it.

[Comedian/Host]

Again.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. And just, you know.

[Comedian/Host]

Two. Yeah, you could put together the best.

[Barry Levinson]

Take. And Conway was like brilliant with physical comedy. And we used to write some of the. When he would play the old man, he was like. He was A little guy, dwarf, Van Golf, you know, that was a separate.

[Comedian/Host]

Character. Oh.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. But he was very good at that kind of. That type of.

[Comedian/Host]

Thing. Oh, and Harvey Corman was a genius at. I mean, there was. Look, that was a certain type of sketch comedy that was ascendant. And then when Saturday Night Live came along in 1975, it was in many ways a rebellion. It was in many ways of saying, this we think is corny, which it really wasn't. But, like, they would crack each other up a lot during the.

[Barry Levinson]

Sketches. And I remember especially between Tim and.

[Comedian/Host]

Harvey. Yes. And it was like, oh, we're all in on the inside joke. We're just, you know, and it was hip. In 1972, Saturday Night Live comes along and they're like, we don't do that. We think that's cool. And if it had been the reverse, if they had been doing it straight, SNL would have done the breaking up. You just want to be different than the previous generation. But they were like, this is a different way to do a sketch. Yeah, and it was. And they never. And they never. That was like the big rule over there. You don't break character. Now, of course, over the years, sometimes they have, and it, you know, we let it slide, but generally. No, you stick to that. Whereas, yeah, the Cal Burnett show, it was much more like what Johnny Carson did with the sketch. It's like half winking to the audience that, you know, we're just, we're.

[Barry Levinson]

Here. No, look, they. They would break up more with Tim Conway because Conway would throw some stuff in there to get them off track. And that became, you know, one of the elements, you know, in the show. They were all. It was like one of those really well run shows. You come in on a Monday, you know, you're working on it on Wednesday, you have a run through to see if the material's gonna be good, make some changes if need be. Thursday, costume design, Friday, shoot, two shows. And that's the way it went, you know, for all of those years. I only worked on it for the three.

[Comedian/Host]

Years. But you wrote the.

[Barry Levinson]

Sketches.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. Like, what's the sketch you remember that stands out that you thought was.

[Barry Levinson]

Like Dr. Jekyll and Ms.

[Comedian/Host]

Hyde? Oh, how forward thinking.

[Barry Levinson]

Barry. So that's where Harvey, he feels that he's beginning to change, you know, and then he said, excuse me, or whatever. And then he would, like go behind the drapes. And then somebody's gone, you know, but Dr. Jekyll. And then part the thing. And there's.

[Comedian/Host]

Carol. Oh.

[Barry Levinson]

Right. And then she's going to change back into Harvey. And that was basically where he.

[Comedian/Host]

Was. But Ms. Was like a new term back.

[Barry Levinson]

Then. Ye.

[Comedian/Host]

Yes. So this was a comment on, like the. The current.

[Barry Levinson]

Feminism. Yeah. And it's rough touching upon without trying to make a particular point of view. But, you know, it was good fun that Harvey could turn into Carol and Carol can then turn back into Harvey, you know, so that was one. And then we used to do a lot of the Tim Conway pieces where he was the old man. He was playing. He was an old, old man and he was like the cab.

[Comedian/Host]

Driver.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. And it would be like something that's like. It'd be the setup. He's there. And all of a sudden Harvey would get into the. Into the cab to the airport and make it snappy. And then there's a long, long, long pause. And then about 20, 30 seconds later, Conway. We'd look in the rear view and go, a passenger. And then it would begin with. What Conway would do is he would say to the airport. And then they used to have. They don't have any more. The Conway would get the. I forget what the book was called. AI. AI. For the directions, which is another minute, which Harvey would lose it. And then laughing. And they would do those particular simple.

[Comedian/Host]

Little. I mean, I remember when I was a kid, the comedy teams the cab was a staple of, because one would be the cab driver and one would be the Stiller. And Mira did it. There was that one that. Who's that? People on Ed Sullivan, Burns and.

[Barry Levinson]

Schreiber. Oh, that's.

[Monet X Change]

Right.

[Comedian/Host]

Huh? Yeah.

[Barry Levinson]

Huh?

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. It was like a rhythm thing. And one get. The passenger would be obnoxious or the passenger would be whatever the fuck. And the cabby would be like. So one would be talking like this. It was like. I don't know. My childhood was so idyllic. When I. You know, when I think about what kids are doing Today when they're 11 years old, they're on their phone watching Japanese porn and seeing a team of businessmen come on a schoolgirl's face. And I was watching this. I think I'm better.

[Barry Levinson]

Off. Look, you were seeing things. One of the first things I remember as a kid was Sid Caesar's show. Because Sid Caesar would, you know, play these characters, and he had some brilliant people in there and a great.

[Comedian/Host]

Cast. I mean, that was even before my time, but I certainly know about it. And if people don't know the writing staff, they call it the 27 Yankees of writing staffs, because it was Mel Brooks, Woody Allen, Larry Gelbart. I can't. Leaving Neil.

[Barry Levinson]

Simon. Neil.

[Comedian/Host]

Simon. I mean, like people who went on to giant major careers all on one writing.

[Barry Levinson]

Staff. And there's a couple others that did. Broadway. Went to.

[Comedian/Host]

Broadway.

[Barry Levinson]

Yes.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah.

[Barry Levinson]

Amazing. The. I don't know if you remember the sketch because it was all done live back then and you wouldn't have remembered it, but unless you might have seen it. And sometimes they show these archival things, but there's one where Sid Caesar is the lawyer and waiting for the jury's reaction. And then the head of the jury is supposed to say, you know, we find him, you know, innocent. You know, and. But he's supposed to say, I'm sorry. Supposed to say, we find him guilty. So that Caesar can go into, you know, how can you find him guilty? And then he's got like a three minute piece of dialogue because it's guilty. And the person. And the foreman said, we find him.

[Comedian/Host]

Innocent because he just.

[Barry Levinson]

Up. Yes, he up the guy, the.

[Comedian/Host]

Foreman of the one.

[Barry Levinson]

Word. He had one word he couldn't.

[Comedian/Host]

Get. What an.

[Barry Levinson]

Idiot. He couldn't get guilty. He went with.

[Comedian/Host]

Innocent.

[Barry Levinson]

Okay. And then Caesar had to ad lib the next 3 1/2 minutes because he's got it, you know, he has no argument. And yet he found a way to pull it.

[Comedian/Host]

Off. Oh, I'm sure he was a genius. But I must say, you mentioned archival. Okay. They did it probably in the 80s. I feel like I have a memory of watching this on my apartment in. On Westmount Avenue, my first apartment out here in late 80s. Okay. They did. I think it was Showtime. Maybe it was a little after that, because, I mean, I did a series for Showtime in 1988, it was around then. And Showtime had the best of your show of shows or 10 from your show of shows. And they did show like 10. And I watched it. I was very curious. Cause I certainly had heard about Sid Caesar and I knew about the writing staff and, you know, a kid who wanted to be in comedy. And so I watched it and I gotta say, I just thought it was the worst fucking shit I'd ever seen. And what struck me was that it was so broad and to me, so unfunny. And the audience. And this is a. You know, this is crude 50s TV. You can't. They're not faking anything. There's no laugh track. The audience is just losing their shit over how funny they think this shit is. And all I could think is this is the post World War II audience. They went through A war. They went through a depression. They're just so fucking happy to be home and fucking in their little Levitt townhouses and having little kids and not being at war. And they're just fucking happy. And they'll laugh at anything. Cause this shit was not funny. It was just so broad to.

[Barry Levinson]

Me. Well, I. I mean, it was funny in its.

[Comedian/Host]

Time. In its time, exactly. Which wasn't my.

[Barry Levinson]

Time. And, you know, that's the key. It would have been, you know, I would see some comics that would be on Ed Sullivan, old comics that I never found funny at all. You know, I don't understand, you know, George.

[Comedian/Host]

Burns. I didn't like any of those.

[Barry Levinson]

Old. So there's a period, you know, so each generation, it just has to find its new.

[Comedian/Host]

Voice. It really does show how perishable comedy is more than music. I mean, look at tv, the commercials. They're constantly using songs that are from our era. Okay, those are old songs, but they're still good. And people still listen to them. They still listen to the Beatles and so forth. But do we really, like, watch comedy from 60 years ago? No, no, look, Milton Burn. Very little of it.

[Barry Levinson]

Lasts. I was watching just recently, YouTube or whatever it was, and I thought Milton Berle. And I remember as a kid, it was one of the first television shows that I saw. And I thought, I gotta watch this. He was huge, right? He was like, you know, Mr.

[Comedian/Host]

Television. Because there was like three.

[Barry Levinson]

Channels. But the point being is there was only three channels. But when you watch it, it's not funny at.

[Comedian/Host]

All. Exactly my point. They were just happy to have the war over. They would laugh at the phone book. They just did not care. They were just giddy. The people were fucking giddy. And I get that. I've talked to my parents when they were alive about that, about that period and how they felt. And yeah, they were giddy. You know, there were problems, but, you know, they were, you know, they were living in the suburbs on the GI Bill. And, you know, there weren't just. I mean, obviously the country was still a fucked up racist.

[Barry Levinson]

Place. But it's also. It's also, you know, how perishable it is. Because even when you see some of the comedies that were once upon a time really funny, supposedly, I don't find funny at all. Now. You will find what somebody will, you know, break through. But there were a bunch of those films, shows, I don't know what. Something Irma and whatever. I don't even remember the names. But I would see these films, you know, because we would go Saturday to see whatever's playing at the movie theater. And they had been around and that. I didn't find a bunch of those things funny at all. And then this new wave of comedy came along. You know, like the Pythons came along. Was like a whole new thing. When the Pythons started with their.

[Comedian/Host]

You know, English humor, that was another, you know.

[Barry Levinson]

Groundbreaking. Yeah. And so there's that period of time it goes on and it's getting boring, and then boom, something explodes.

[Comedian/Host]

Again. I've been showing older movies to someone who I know is much younger and has no knowledge of these movies, but she's, you know, likes them. Users love Gone with the Wind, you know, Casablanca, Sunset Boulevard really holds up the Third man. Some of them don't. Some of them don't. So I was telling her about Bringing Up Baby, which is in the 30s. Cary Grant and Katharine Hepburn, I think, you know, classic. And they remade it as what's up, Doc? In 1980 or so. Bogdanovich 72. Bogdanovich, Barbra Streisand, Ryan O'. Neill. So we watched that first. It's awesome. Streisand is amazing in this. I mean, she just blows the lid off of it. Ryan o' Neill's great too, but, like, he's playing a much easier part. She's doing the heavy lifting. It's just really great. It's funny. And of course, it's based on bringing a baby. A lot of the bits are exactly the same, beat for beat, where she grabs his jacket and he tears. It's everything. The whole MacGuffin of the movie. So then we try to watch that one. Got about halfway hour through it. I mean, it's from 1935. It's just a heavy lift to ask 1935 to, like, live on in 2025, you know, it just is. Sometimes they pull it off, but it's just. It's just too heavy a lift. It's just too long a time. You know, the sensibility is different. You know, my father's war letters, I read recently over somebody had a lot of. And a little after the war. So we're talking about 40s into the 50s. These are men at war writing each other. And they never once used the word fuck. Men at war, they were just different. Never said fuck, never said shit. Never said piss, never said cunt, never said jizz on your face. Never said skull fuck. Wait. Fucking shit. Let's just stop it there. But really, I mean, can you think. Never said my fist up your ass. Okay, so. But like, can you imagine? Like men. These are men writing letters to each other. And they don't use any profanity. We're a very different.

[Barry Levinson]

Species. Oh.

[Comedian/Host]

Yeah. We.

[Barry Levinson]

Just. Did you ever. You know in the Ken Burns documentary, the Civil War Letters.

[Comedian/Host]

Home.

[Barry Levinson]

Yeah. Same.

[Comedian/Host]

Thing. And they sound like they're written by Walt.

[Barry Levinson]

Whitman. I know. Yeah. Incredibly. How gorgeous is.

[Comedian/Host]

This? So erudite. And they're just. You know, this is just a common.

[Barry Levinson]

Man. Yeah. And. And. And half of them never went to.

[Comedian/Host]

School. They must have learned it.

[Barry Levinson]

Somewhere. I don't understand how you. You. You're right. You would think that this is some kind of, like. How do they. Well, a lot of very good writers back.

[Comedian/Host]

Then. You had to turn your phone off in class, and there was none of that indoctrinating into WOKE bullshit. They actually told you reading, writing and arithmetic wasn't all a political commissar building. Look how out of whack our government is. Our government was. I don't know if you're watching the Ken Burns Great Revolutionary War doc he just did. It's great. And, you know, our government was designed where the presidency was really the least of the three branches of government. They executed the laws, but Congress had all the power. That's the way they designed it. And we're almost at the opposite place now where Congress has no power and the president has almost all the power. That's exactly what we were revolting.

[Barry Levinson]

Against.

[Comedian/Host]

Yep. Don't make a movie about that because it's too on the nose. What is your. What is your next thought for a.

[Barry Levinson]

Movie? I have. There's a few things that I'm interested in, but we'll see what happens. Especially now, because there's so many objections to a movie that you want to make what you can't do. Basically. Which is what I. I really love, is in the films that were more personal to me as the stories of characters that I knew and grew up with.

[Comedian/Host]

And.

[Barry Levinson]

Right. And where things went in terms of society and all of those things. Which is. You know, I did four of the Baltimore films. And not that I'm going to stay in that place, but in that particular world. You know, that applied to today even in terms of how do we deal with one.

[Comedian/Host]

Another. Richard.

[Barry Levinson]

Dreyfuss. What's.

[Comedian/Host]

That? What's the one with Richard.

[Barry Levinson]

Dreyfus? Tin.

[Comedian/Host]

Men. I love that. Tin.

[Barry Levinson]

Man. Yeah. Danny.

[Comedian/Host]

DeVito. That's good. That's such a good one. I feel like that one kind of, like got lost in the shuffle, but it's a really funny.

[Barry Levinson]

Movie. It did all right, but it was, it was, it did okay. It could have done better, but they were always nervous about those.

[Comedian/Host]

Types. No, I just mean over time, you know, like people remember Wag the.

[Barry Levinson]

Dog. Yeah, no, it's.

[Comedian/Host]

True. Rain man, of course, because, yeah, Tom Cruise, geez, he was really. What a phenomenon. That is in every.

[Barry Levinson]

Way. What's interesting is that, you know, most of the movie, as it turned out there was. I got involved because originally Sidney Pollock was going to do it and Michael Ovitz was his agent.

[Comedian/Host]

Which. I'm a rain man. Yeah, Sidney Pollock was.

[Barry Levinson]

Good. He was going to direct.

[Comedian/Host]

It.

[Barry Levinson]

Wow. And he was having problems with the script. And Michael Ovitz said, would you read the script and talk to Cindy about doing it? You know, the fixes. And so I met with Cindy and I went over and I talked about it all and all of those things and eventually he said, I just can't see it. And so then said, you know, when you want to direct it? And my wife Diana said, this is, this is right up your alley to do. Because I was explaining.

[Comedian/Host]

It. Were Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman attached to it when he still.

[Barry Levinson]

Passed?

[Comedian/Host]

Yes. I'm an idiot. No, he was great. I loved.

[Barry Levinson]

Him. He was, he was a terrific person, but he couldn't understand what a moviemaker. And he was looking for more things to happen in the movie. And I was saying, I think it's the two of them in the car.

[Comedian/Host]

Period. You're the non happening guy and.

[Barry Levinson]

The hustler can hustle the autistic. That's the basis of the movie. And so, so this is what happened. We're gonna, he drops out, I get involved and we, we, we're just about go off to shoot and we still have to do rewriting. And there was a writer strike and so now you can write. And so as a director, what you can do is just talk, you know. So like for instance, I would say on a highway scene, I said, I don't like the highway because it's too boring on being on a highway. But that's the fastest way to get to LA is to take an interstate. But at the back roads are more interesting looking. And they say, well, what are you going to do? It's the way you got to go. I said, what about if there's an accident on the highway? And then if he sees there's an accident, he's not getting back in the.

[Comedian/Host]

Car. That sounds like.

[Barry Levinson]

Writing. And so you're just talking premise and then you.

[Comedian/Host]

Just. That's why the Whole thing is so.

[Barry Levinson]

Silly. Yeah. But here's the key to it. Tom has never been thought of as somebody to, you know, ad lib, but that if you take a segment like that, it's all ad lib. I just said to Dustin, you, you want to get off the. Out of the car, and you're not getting in the car until you get off the highway, and that's it. And then Tom, you're trying to deal with him, and then you're going to deal with the police, and you telling you got to get him into the car, and that was it. So we would just shoot it and put it.

[Comedian/Host]

Together. You were the director made for a writer strike, the one who can credibly claim, I didn't write any of.

[Barry Levinson]

These. So that's how it basically, you know, came about, because of the writer strike. And then you're just trying to, you know, fill in the scenes as you go.

[Comedian/Host]

Along. And this is when you became a Scientologist. All right, well, I'm so glad we got to sit down together. I am such a fan. And you're just as. Just as entertaining to sit with as you are to watch, having directed all those great.

[Barry Levinson]

Pictures. This is a nice spot.

[Comedian/Host]

Here. Oh, this room is magical. I mean, it's. I was. You know, everyone told me to tear it down when I bought.

[Barry Levinson]

This.

[Comedian/Host]

Really? Yeah, because it was full of termites and mold and, you.

[Barry Levinson]

Know. But how did you get the idea to do a.

[Comedian/Host]

Podcast? You know, everybody kept saying to me for years, you should do a podcast. And I'd be like, please, I have a television show. And they'd be like, yeah, but you don't get to talk about everything on that. And they were so right, because this is so different than the television show, which I do, like, specific preparation for, and a lot of it. And this, I just get high and talk. And so it goes where it goes. And it doesn't have to be about politics, and I don't want it to be. I have a show for politics. This is different. And so I get to, you.

[Barry Levinson]

Know.

[Comedian/Host]

Just talk with people like yourself, who I probably would never get the chance to do. I mean, it's just been a joy. So hope we do it.

[Barry Levinson]

Again. No, this was fun. I mean, first of all, I just realized that I'm not paying attention, but there's no camera.

[Comedian/Host]

Person. That was my.

[Barry Levinson]

Idea. That was a good.

[Comedian/Host]

Idea. I said, hide the cameras in the walls. I want this to be. I want people to forget, you know, no other person in the room, no microphones. In our face. And it does produce a level of intimacy I do not see it anywhere.

[Barry Levinson]

Else. No Club Random I was about to say. So when do you want to start the.

[Comedian/Host]

Recording Club.

[Monet X Change]

Random? All right, y', all gather round because Monet X change from sibling rivalry is here with an announcement. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Google Gemini. Now listen, the girls over at Google said Monet tell the children, so I'm telling you, us college students. Get Google Gemini's Pro plan free for one year. Use the best model in the world for multimodal understanding. So whether you're uploading a video to get feedback on your presentation, uploading a photo of your homework to ask for help, or transcribing notes from a lecture you missed, Gemini 3 Pro can help. And baby, if I had this in college, oh, she would have been unstoppable. Picture it Monet X changed in the library. Uploading picture of my music theory homework. Like Gemini, please help a diva out. Or recording my rehearsal videos for feedback instead of crying at the practice room for three hours. This would have been life changing. Now back to the goods. Sign up to get more access to Google's Most accurate model, Gemini 3 Pro. Unlimited image uploads, Pro level image editing, higher limits in NotebookLM, Gemini in Gmail and Docs. Two terabytes of storage and more. You heard me, two terabytes. That's enough space to store every vocal warmup, drag race look, and every photo your aunt sends you of her plants. Visit Gemini Google students to learn more and sign up. Terms apply Limu Game OO and.

[Barry Levinson]

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[Comedian/Host]

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[Barry Levinson]

Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars. Watch, watching us cut the.

[Comedian/Host]

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