Billy Corgan | Club Random

Summary

Club Random with Bill Maher: Billy Corgan | September 15, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode brings together Bill Maher and Billy Corgan (Smashing Pumpkins frontman, podcaster) for a wide-ranging, relaxed, and candid conversation at Club Random, with topics spanning health, political polarization and violence, pornography and society, the impact of AI on music and the arts, the fleeting nature of fame, unconditional love, and the value of family. The episode is set against the backdrop of a day marked by a national tragedy—the shooting of Charlie Kirk—which brings gravity and immediacy to their dialogue.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Health, Aging, and Self-Care

• Self-Perception with Age: Maher and Corgan discuss staying physically healthy with age, Bill noting, “If I kept losing all the weight people say I keep losing, I’d be like 100 pounds” (02:18).
• Diet and Medical Advice: Maher expresses frustration that diet is rarely part of doctors’ assessments: “No Western doctor…ever said to me…and what do you eat?” (04:49).

2. Political Violence & Division in America

• Tragedy & Political Polarization: The episode is colored by news of the shooting of Charlie Kirk.
  • Maher passionately condemns apathy toward violence against “the other side”: “If you don’t care because the wrong team guy got shot, fuck you. You’re what’s wrong with this country.” (05:33)
  • Corgan: “Political violence has to be off the table. It just can’t. It can’t be rationalized. It can’t be asterisked. It just can’t.” (10:13)
• The Need for Dialogue: Maher laments the left’s unwillingness to talk: “The left really has much more of an ‘I don’t talk to you, I don’t want to deal with you, you’re deplorable’…” (06:39)
• Sectarian Violence Lessons: Corgan draws parallels from global history: “If you’ve traveled at all, you become grossly aware of how different the world is outside America…that stuff doesn’t go away in one election cycle.” (07:51)

3. Human Nature, Morality, and Pornography

• Nature vs. Nurture in Morality: The two debate whether children have innate morality.
  • Bill cites “Lord of the Flies” and feral behavior: “You have to be taught to be a good person.” (12:39)
  • Billy pushes back: “My sense is…humans are hardwired, have some innate moral sense.” (12:56)
• The Disassociation of Porn: Corgan posits that consuming porn requires a “disassociative frame of mind,” raising ethical and societal concerns about how porn changes sexual expectations and enjoyment (14:15–21:10).
  • Maher: “There is definitely an issue. …the people not our age who grew up on it, yeah, they do become addicted.” (20:12)
  • Corgan: “Young men, they’ve consumed so much porn … they literally can’t have normal sex with a woman.” (21:23)
• Freedom & Regulation: The discussion veers into prostitution and legality with Maher advocating for its legalization (26:28).

4. AI’s Impact on Music, Comedy, and the Arts

• AI in Creative Processes: Corgan warns about the oncoming devastation of AI in music:
  • “The world you thought of, of music—just start with music—it’s over. It’s already over. … Five years from now, the music landscape will be completely devastated by AI on every level.” (30:58–31:52)
  • The rise of “organic musicians” as a response to AI-generated content (32:17).
  • Maher: “The audience has no responsibility to give a shit. They just want to be entertained. … They’re not going to give a shit [about AI versus organic music].” (33:35–33:39)
• Limits of AI in Comedy: Maher notes, “They are definitely not there yet with comedy… comedy is just so…can’t be sussed out with logic.” (35:09)

5. Fame, Family, and Unconditional Love

• Fleeting Satisfaction in Fame: Corgan shares his struggles with the transactional nature of fame: “No matter how many hit songs you write, it’s always, what about the next one? …There’s no Valhalla at the top of Rock Mountain.” (62:09–63:28)
• Family as True Fulfillment: Corgan: “Only unconditional love in some facet of your life gives you the proper perspective to appreciate what is great about transactional things.” (63:28)
• The Transformative Power of Marriage and Children:
  • Corgan describes resisting marriage before realizing its deepening effect on his relationship: “The day after I got married, I looked at her and said, motherfucker, you’re right.” (75:09)
  • “If I really want to contribute, then write Imagine or Bullet with Butterfly Wings. That’s my contribution. That’s what the God that I believe in animated me to do.” (71:21)
  • On fatherhood: “You are so much more important to me than that [his career]. I would trade all of this for you.” (64:06)

6. Societal Zeitgeist, Icons, and Role Models

• Taylor Swift as a Modern Icon: They discuss Swift’s cultural gravity.
  • Maher: “I find her as a person so admirable…she’s classy, you know, you never get her with a bad picture.” (50:17)
  • Corgan: “As a business person, she’s brilliant… the demand for her concert tour…was 900 stadiums.” (50:54)

7. The Nature of LA and Hollywood

• Dark LA Mythology: The two riff on LA’s dark undercurrents, discussing songs like “Hotel California” as dark LA anthems, nodding to authors like Raymond Chandler and films like “Chinatown” (42:00).
• Celebrity Culture: Maher reflects on his Hollywood Walk of Fame star as “ridiculous—you can buy one,” and Hollywood parties: “To me that’s like going to Disneyland…everywhere you look is a star.” (44:31–46:01)

8. Reflections on Freedom, Love, and Regret

• The Freedom Paradox: Both discuss the pursuit and eventual limitations of sexual freedom.
  • Corgan: “I woke up one day, I was like, this is boring…this isn’t really what I’m after.” (57:14)
  • Maher: “I disagree on the boring, it never gets boring.” (58:20)
• Marriage as a Leap of Faith: Corgan talks about the personal leap required for marriage, even after initial resistance due to past wounds and career concerns (72:57–75:09).

9. America, Exit Fantasies, and Nowhere to Go

• Would You Leave America?: The men riff on celebrities buying castles or islands to retreat from US troubles.
  • Corgan: “I did look at an island once. …I just had this vision of being on my island…what’s that boat approaching with the pirates?” (87:53–88:19)
  • Maher: “Fuck no. Fuck you. If you think I’m leaving, I’m not leaving.” (85:59)

10. The Need for Political Cooperation

• Endless Escalation: Maher: “I just don’t see this country coming back until Charlton Heston finds the Statue of Liberty almost buried in the sand…” (84:10)
• What Needs to Happen? Maher insists: “Both sides have to admit they do it. Stop with the…yeah, but, you know, the right wing. …The right wing has been terrible. …plainly the left does it too…Every fight escalates…everybody has to stop now.” (82:59–83:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bill Maher on Political Violence:
  “If you’re on the other side of the political divide and you don’t care because the wrong team guy got shot, fuck you. You’re what’s wrong with this country.” (05:33)

• Billy Corgan’s AI Warning:
  “The world you thought of, of music—...it’s over. ... Five years from now, the music landscape will be completely devastated by AI on every level.” (31:13 – 31:52)

• Corgan on Marriage & Family:
  “Only unconditional love...gives you the proper perspective to appreciate what is great about transactional things.” (63:28)
  “The day after I got married, I looked at her and said, motherfucker, you’re right.” (75:09)

• Maher on Leaving America:
  “Fuck no. Fuck you. If you think I’m leaving, I’m not leaving. Everything looks good from afar. Get there, you’ll find a lot of shit…Go buy a castle in Ireland…you’ll be back, asshole.” (85:59 – 86:14)

• Corgan on Success:
  “There’s no Valhalla at the top of Rock Mountain. There isn’t. And I’ve been there multiple times." (63:28)

• Maher on AI’s Limits in Comedy:
  “They are definitely not there yet with comedy…comedy is just so…can’t be sussed out with logic.” (35:09)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• Political Violence & Societal Decay: 05:18 – 10:13
• Nature of Morality & Porn Discussion: 12:39 – 22:10
• AI & The End of Music Creation as We Know It: 30:58 – 34:15
• Marriage, Family, & Meaning: 62:04 – 64:06
• Taylor Swift & The Zeitgeist: 50:10 – 51:42
• Hollywood & The Dark Side of LA: 42:00 – 46:14
• Exit Fantasies/Leaving America: 85:11 – 89:11
• Final Thoughts on Political Leadership & Will: 82:49 – 84:57

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Tone & Style

The conversation is relaxed but deeply engaged, with Bill’s characteristic mix of cynicism and wit, and Billy’s thoughtful, sometimes philosophical candor. Banter alternates with serious contemplation, especially as they reckon with national tragedy and personal vulnerability.

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For New Listeners

This episode showcases the blend of irreverence and honesty that defines Club Random. Bill and Billy cover taboo and big-picture issues alike—offering a rare window into how two public figures negotiate meaning, creativity, and a turbulent world. If you’re interested in the intersection of pop culture, philosophy, society, and personal growth, this is a deeply rewarding listen.

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

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[Billy Corgan]

So what's the worst part? He goes, I had to buy the whole village that went with the castle because I looked.

[Bill Maher]

Are you serious?

[Billy Corgan]

A rock star. Bill. We look at, we look at these things. Club Random Bill, here I am in your house again.

[Bill Maher]

How are you?

[Billy Corgan]

I go, you're looking trim. Bill.

[Bill Maher]

I actually never change, but I know.

[Billy Corgan]

You look like you lost weight.

[Bill Maher]

I did not really, I'm telling you, I.

[Billy Corgan]

It's just my memory.

[Bill Maher]

If I kept losing all the weight people say I keep losing, I just, I'd be like £100. No, I'm always like within a pound or two.

[Billy Corgan]

Did you ever gain weight? Were you ever plump?

[Bill Maher]

I was plumpish, yes. I would say like late 20s. I have pictures of me like on my first sitcom. And yes, my face was a lot fuller. And it's like it was before I really even gave a thought to what constituted being healthy because before that I was poor. So when you're poor, you just eat whatever shit food and you're also. You're in your 20s. You don't. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, I was the older. I mean, it's paradoxical, but I really feel like the older I get in some ways. Of course, not everywhere you can't. But I'm healthier. I mean, I get way less, like, colds and flu. I used to get that every year because I drank more, ate shit food, didn't get proper rest. You know, you take better care of yourself, and it's amazing.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Because we occasionally share the same makeup.

[Bill Maher]

People, you and I.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, because our production worlds cross occasionally. You don't know this. I'm just telling you now.

[Bill Maher]

I don't know. Really.

[Billy Corgan]

We do, occasionally. It might be somebody who used to work with you, or maybe it's just because there's some crossover.

[Bill Maher]

Are you talking about your podcast?

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. I mean, I think I had a hand in your did. Yes, and I'm very proud of it. Cause you're very good at it.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, thank you. But my point is, I was gonna talk about your skin because this is a little weird.

[Bill Maher]

Mrs. Robinson, this conversation is getting a little weird.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, Bill, I mean, your skin looks so good, so I appreciate it. I'm always back channeling, trying to figure out what you do for your skin. Richmond, I won't reveal the secrets I've learned.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you know, everything is made in the kitchen.

[Billy Corgan]

I heard that.

[Bill Maher]

You know, that's the old saying. My abs are made in the kitchen. But it's not just abs. It's really what you put in your body. I mean, I was ranting about Kennedy last week. He finally went too far with me, and I was so wanting to be with him for his quest to relook at how we just, in the macro, look at health in America. And I think he's right about so many things, and certainly one of them would be, I mentioned this on the show. I never had a Western doctor, no matter what was wrong with me, ever said to me, and what do you eat?

[Billy Corgan]

Right?

[Bill Maher]

As if that shouldn't be, like, number one on the questionnaire about whatever's going wrong with you, that's gonna have some input into it.

[Billy Corgan]

How can it not?

[Bill Maher]

How could it not? But that's just not on the chart of Western medicine. Maybe more now. So I was hopeful that he would like, you know, that kind of thinking. And not the crazy part, but the crazy part, you know, he couldn't resist.

[Billy Corgan]

And so, yeah, we're in crazy time part.

[Bill Maher]

Well, look, I might drink a little more than usual today. Because, I mean, I don't know when this is airing, but this is a shit day because a guy who sat there, Charlie Kirk, got shot today. And I can't stop thinking about it.

[Billy Corgan]

Neither can I.

[Bill Maher]

And we shouldn't. And if you're on the other side of the political divide and you don't care because the wrong team guy got shot, fuck you. You're what's wrong with this country.

[Billy Corgan]

I love when our country can yell, scream, point, cajole, mock, anything past that. I just can't. I can't.

[Bill Maher]

Right. No, I have. Well, I'm going to be all over this Friday night on my show, of course, but just the fight I am been having with the left while I'm, of course the irony as a lot of people in my position is still a liberal, just a traditional liberal, not won't go along with their, like a lot of the stuff that's just crazy out there too far, which gets Trump elected, blah, blah, blah. As I always say to my woke friends, we voted for the same person. You're just why she lost.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, get it. Okay. Took me a second. Sorry, I had to absorb that.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. You know, they're the people who don't want to talk. It's my main issue with them. They. And Charlie Kirk was a guy who, like, he was always talking and I talk to them here. You know, the right wingers say what you want about them, but they talk to you. They're not into this leftist think. The left really has much more of a. I don't talk to you, I don't want to deal with you. You're deplorable. I can't break bread with you, that attitude. And like all the right wingers, they don't have that attitude. Now, again, I didn't vote for them. And Charlie Kirk and I certainly don't agree on much politically. But he sat here, he's a human being. He's not a monster.

[Billy Corgan]

And a husband and a father.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. And I liked him. I liked them all. They're all nice people when you meet them in person. And they're not as crazy as they would. Nobody's as crazy as they make them out to be. And we're never gonna solve this unless it begins with both sides agreeing. We both do it. You know, the right absolutely is full of.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, violence has to be off the table. It's just right. It can't be. Well, in this instance or I just, I can't. You just can't. And maybe people aren't sophisticated enough because they don't really know the world. And I'm not just talking historically. I mean, the world, it's a complicated world. And if you've traveled at all, you become grossly aware of how different the world is outside of America. And if you've been anywhere where sectarian violence has been part and parcel of the history, you know, that stuff doesn't go away on one election cycle. You're talking to people who, like, you know, it's going back hundreds of years.

[Bill Maher]

You know, Sarajevo, sure.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, a guy works for me who's literally in America because his family was. He had members of his family murdered during that whole, you know, that. I don't even know what you call it because we tried not to call it a war, but it was the Balkan wars.

[Bill Maher]

Sure.

[Billy Corgan]

But I'm saying don't forget the propaganda of the time.

[Bill Maher]

But I mean, in the 90s, I mean, you mentioned sectarian. Okay, Sarajevo, when it was Yugoslavia, was a city of Muslims and Christians. It was in the Olympic. We hosted the Winter Olympics. And eight years later, people were getting shot when they went out to get milk because there were snipers. It is not crazy to think that something similar could happen here. I mean, people have been talking for a while about a low grade civil war. This is what it means to start one. And like I said, both sides. You mentioned political violence at the State of the Union. Biden's last one, he said, political violence has no place in our society. Something like that. And the Democrats all stood and clapped and the Republicans sat there like. And it's like, really? You can't applaud for that, you fucking assholes. And again, unless we start with both sides, the Luigi Mangiones, which is like, you know, I hope this isn't becoming like a copycat thing. Like, oh, this is.

[Billy Corgan]

But that's. Sorry to interrupt, but that's why I think we need to say culturally, societally, left, right, American, don't care. Ambivalent. Political violence has to be off the table. It cannot be an instrument to achieve goal. It just can't. It can't be rationalized. It can't be asterisked. It just can't. It just can't. Because what we have is so rare. And both of us are the beneficiaries of a free market system. And that free market system's not fair to everyone. But. And free speech system, well, that's always been my biggest thing. You know, anytime I've ever stepped in the political arena, and it's been very, very brief, I've always made the same point. As an artist, I. If I don't stand for free speech, I mean, what do I stand for? Because invariably somebody's going to stand up and say, you can't say that. You can't sing that. Right.

[Bill Maher]

And we do have limits, as we should, which is something that is directly threatening to, you know, specifically to a person or inciting violence. Very specifically, of course. And we do. That is already in our canon.

[Billy Corgan]

But it's like when you have kids and you say to your kids, like they want to argue a point, you go, yeah, but, you know, what you did was wrong. Okay. So I think most people understand where the line is. They want to pretend that they forgot it.

[Bill Maher]

Or do kids know what they do is wrong?

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, my children do.

[Bill Maher]

Really? How do they know? Because they're kids.

[Billy Corgan]

Because they just know. Really? No, no, I'm just saying. I'm just. I'm making a very simple point, but.

[Bill Maher]

I'm really asking because I don't have kids. And I feel like. I feel like kids being kids who are, you know, you're not born knowing anything, so you kind of have to learn it. I feel like kids are feral and.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, Bill, you what? Well, you don't have kids. I'm saying is, I don't think they're as feral as you think they are.

[Bill Maher]

From when I'm. When I've been. When I am out in public.

[Billy Corgan]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

And, you know, like, many times over the years, like going into say.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And, you know, there will be kids coming through in the lobby or something, or when you're going up to your room in the hallway. No, they're feral. They are absolutely feral. And they also are born without any sense of right and wrong. Did you ever read Lord of the Flies?

[Billy Corgan]

Of course. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. Lord of the Flies. Great book. And it's about kids who. What are they on a desert island or something? And it just shows how feral they are and atavistic and how awful they are to each other because you have to be taught to be a good person.

[Billy Corgan]

I'm not. I don't totally agree with you. If you want to.

[Bill Maher]

Well, tell me.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. My sense of it is. And I go back to my own relationship to myself as a child, which was complicated. But what I try to talk to my kids about was, when you did that, did you feel good or did you feel bad? And that's what I mean about a sort of innate sense of right or wrong. Like, they know deep down that even no matter how they justify their behavior and Oftentimes they have a good, you know, he stole my toy. You know, that type of thing. But deep down, they admit that they don't feel good about what they did. And I think that, to me, is the delineating point that says on some level, humans are hardwired, have some innate moral sense. That's just my take.

[Bill Maher]

Then why are so many of them incorrigible schmucks? Why is there so much evil in the world? Why is there so much crime? Why is there so much merciless activity wrought by one human being onto another? Man's inhumanity to man. We all know that phrase. Where does that come from?

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, I mean, I tend to default to. There are systems in place that want to exploit human decency. In essence, if you can separate a human from their own decency, well, there's a lot of money to be made. Porn is a perfect example.

[Bill Maher]

Porn, sure. What is evil about that?

[Billy Corgan]

I'm not saying it's evil. I'm saying is. I'm not saying it's evil. What I'm saying is, is porn, on some level, requires a disassociative frame of mind to enjoy it.

[Bill Maher]

I hope so. If you're doing it right, that's it. Well, go into that further, if you would, from your disassociative frame.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

Mine.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. Next time. Not that you would ever watch porn.

[Bill Maher]

I don't watch porn every day.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. God bless. Yeah, I don't watch porn. I don't believe in watching porn.

[Bill Maher]

Really?

[Billy Corgan]

No, judge.

[Bill Maher]

I'm not judging.

[Billy Corgan]

And I'm not judging in rumors.

[Bill Maher]

And if you did, I wouldn't care. You judge me all you want.

[Billy Corgan]

Next time you're masturbating in front of a porno. Bill. I hope I don't enter your mind is kind of what I'm saying.

[Bill Maher]

You will not. You definitely will not. Unless you show up in the video, which I'm not expecting.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, maybe somebody will look like me and it reminds you of me.

[Bill Maher]

You know, with AI, they could. Absolutely. I mean.

[Billy Corgan]

Anyway, back to my point, Billy, with.

[Bill Maher]

MILF and stepson, you know that I.

[Billy Corgan]

Guess I'd be a bilf, right?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, you would.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Point being is that next time you're watching porn is a thought experiment. If you'd like to try this. Okay, sure. And I'm gonna assume for the sake of this thought experiment that you.

[Bill Maher]

When I have my dick in my hand, I'm all about the thought experiments.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. And I'm not saying you like young women, Bill, but let's say you're watching.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, again, no shame there. I'm not shamed at that either.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, so you're watching a young woman in flagrante. And. And. And she.

[Bill Maher]

I don't watch Italian porn. No, I'm kidding. And flagrante. Yes. You're so erudite, Bill. It's what I love about you. You are. You're very erudite.

[Billy Corgan]

So you're watching a porn with a young woman and doesn't matter what's happening, it's just she's involved on some level.

[Bill Maher]

On some level. I fucking hope so.

[Billy Corgan]

If not, it's gay porn in Billy's thought experiment. Okay, stop for a moment if you can, if you're not so caught up in passion.

[Bill Maher]

I'm so into this now. I want to hear this so badly.

[Billy Corgan]

Stop and think that that's somebody's daughter.

[Bill Maher]

That's so funny. Do I know this person? In other words, is it a person I know and is their daughter?

[Billy Corgan]

No, I'm saying it's okay.

[Bill Maher]

Then I'm good. And maybe even if I do, I don't know. But that's. Sorry. Sorry about the spit take, but not my first one here. Is that really what's going through your mind?

[Billy Corgan]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

But how does me, a world away in front of a computer with my dick in my hand, how does this affect the daughter in any way? And by the way, why is it such a horrible?

[Billy Corgan]

Because my point was it requires a level of disassociation. In essence, you have to, on some level disassociate that this is a human being who may or may not be in that position for all the wrong reasons. Maybe it's all the right reasons. I'm friends with a very famous porn star who did it purposely, intentionally, and is not. Is not damaged by it.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

And it's totally, totally fine with it.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. Porn stars are nymphomaniacs.

[Billy Corgan]

Generally speaking.

[Bill Maher]

Generally speaking, they really like sex and like to do it a lot. I mean, it's not.

[Billy Corgan]

But by that classification, then you're a porn star.

[Bill Maher]

I could have been. I may have missed my calling. I've thought of that many times.

[Billy Corgan]

You got the frame for it?

[Bill Maher]

Well, let's not tip our med too much, but I mean, I've heard from.

[Billy Corgan]

Women, it's usually the skinny guys that are. That are packing the Sinatra heat.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. It's just unseemly to ever talk about your dick. So I'm not gonna start, but is.

[Billy Corgan]

This the first time you've ever talked about your penis on your show?

[Bill Maher]

No, but One of my ex girlfriends once talked about it on Howard Stern.

[Billy Corgan]

Really?

[Bill Maher]

Yes, and I loved it. Cause she blew his mind.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, good. I have to find that clip.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, you'll have to find that clip. Anyway, first of all, I don't think porn necessarily is something that is harmful to the people who are doing it, as they say.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, involved in the actual.

[Bill Maher]

What I'm amazed when I do go on pornhub to find is that it seems like there is a literally inexhaustible number of women who are doing it. It looks. If you just go on pornhub and keep scrolling and scrolling, it looks like every woman in America under 35 years old is doing porn. I mean, it is just a lot.

[Billy Corgan]

I don't know if this is accurate, but this is, like, sort of anecdotal. I heard somebody talking recently. They were saying with. With the numbers on OnlyFans, that they estimate that 1.4% of the population of the United States is now doing porn.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, that sounds about right. Yeah. I mean, and when you look, if you parse that down to, like, what percentage of the population, okay, half of them are not women. So, yes, there are some male porn stars. And by the way, kudos to them because, like, a male porn star, what a brilliant idea. A guy who says, you know what? They're gonna make porn and they're gonna need a real dick. They're going to need somebody's dick to get sucked all day long by hot chicks. I could do that job. I mean, I. I must say, there is a part of me that says, wow, I wish I had that kind of confidence.

[Billy Corgan]

But anyway, well, it's, you know, like, it's. It's a short step from there to comedy, you see.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. The problem is, you know, the people who watch it do get addicted. There is a real issue here.

[Billy Corgan]

So we're going the right way, at least.

[Bill Maher]

There is definitely an issue. I'm always been on the page, at least of the look. I never even saw it on the computer until about, I would say, five or six years ago. I was a guy who grew up with magazines, and I was afraid to look at it because I was like, oh, what if they get a cookie in here? And what if they know what I'm doing? And what if they're really watching me? And, well, I got over that. But the people not our age who grew up on it, yeah, they do become addicted. And it is not benign. I don't think the kids watch it in the same way I do. Like, I don't almost ever see the man in the porn video. Usually it's a girl who comes out and does sexy stuff direct to camera for five or 10 minutes and then a guy comes in. Well, I don't need the guy. I'm the guy. Like, once the guy comes in, I don't actually like to watch them fucking and sucking. I just like to see them being sexy.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, I see.

[Bill Maher]

You know, so like, that's very far from kids who like, at 12 years old, they've seen a team of Japanese men have, you know, bukake with.

[Billy Corgan]

Have you heard the thing where. And again, it's anecdotal, but I've heard these things that young men, they've consumed so much porn, by the time they hit their late teens, early 20s, they literally can't have normal sex with a woman.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

Because they're so. And I have talked to young women who have complained that they get into relationships with guys. And if the guys, unless the guy's having sort of, let's call it, very edgy sex, right. He can't.

[Bill Maher]

And that's what is not benign about porn. And it's again, something that I don't even want to watch is that it's kind of rapey. It's, you know, I don't need to. I don't. It's gross. There's a lot of spitting and coming on the face and, you know, ass fucking. Things that are. I'm not.

[Billy Corgan]

So you just like the sexy part?

[Bill Maher]

I'm not interested. Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, you know, I mean, here's the thing about sex. It's very sexy and I just don't see the need to dress it up, like, with old. And if you have to, I just think you're doing it wrong. If you're using devices, if you're using food, like, food should not be involved in sex at all. I find it disgusting just to eat before you have sex. I always think you should have the sex first and then dinner. It's just wrong to do it the other way because you eat, you're bloated, you're farty, your breath stinks. But actually involving food, I just don't understand. Or wigs or fucking. I'm a pirate and you're a schoolgirl. You know, I just don't. I mean, if you just fuck, you know, just learn how to fuck, right? And there's enough enjoyment in that. There you go, kids. Advice from Bill. This episode of Club Random is sponsored by ZipRecruiter. Hiring is exhausting. You post a job, and suddenly you're drowning in resumes. Well, the future of hiring looks a lot brighter because ZipRecruiter's latest tools actually speed up the process of finding the right people. Which means you save time and maybe even your sanity. And now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com random Look, I've worked with a lot of people over the years. Some good and some actually downright quite terrible. So be smart from the start and use ZipRecruiter to build your dream team. With ZipRecruiter, you can connect with qualified candidates in minutes. See someone who looks perfect, unlock their contact info instantly, and with over 320,000 new resumes added every month, you're not stuck fishing in the same sad pond. So use ZipRecruiter and save time hiring 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter. Get a quality candidate within the first day. And if you go to ziprecruiter.com random right now, you can try it for free again, that's ziprecruiter.com random ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire Club Random is sponsored by True Classic. Men's fashion isn't complicated. It's T shirts. And yet somehow companies make it either ridiculously overpriced or so cheap it dissolves in the dryer. True Classic actually fixed this. Premium shirts that fit, feel great, and don't cost more than dinner for two. And clearly people noticed. They've sold over 25 million shirts to 5 million customers with 200,000 five star reviews. That's not a marketing spin. That's men everywhere finally admitting, fine, I'll wear a shirt that fits. It's no secret that that I always look good. But now my staff does too. And part of the reason is True Classic. The shirts are tailored where you want, relaxed where you need. No stiff fabric, no bunching, no nonsense, just a clean fit. So skip the overpriced designer scam. Skip the cheap throwaway junk. True Classic is built for comfort, built to last, and built to give back. You can find them at Amazon, Target, Costco, Sam's Club, or head to trueclassic.com random to try them out for yourself. But you're not wrong that porn is not a harmless endeavor.

[Billy Corgan]

That's kind of my point. If you don't have a judgmental thing, which I don't have a judgmental thing. It's like, be transparent about that, right?

[Bill Maher]

But I don't think the women who Are doing it, are being exploited terribly much. They want to do it. I'm sure they could and should pay them more.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, the dark side of porn is there's a lot of prostitution that goes on around the edges to make the money.

[Bill Maher]

Well, as someone once pointed out, if you fuck somebody and they give you money, you're a prostitute and you get arrested. But if they fuck somebody and they give you money but there was a camera there, you're a porn star.

[Billy Corgan]

I see. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know what I'm saying? It's a little weird that just because there's a camera there that makes it legal.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

But I think both should be legal.

[Billy Corgan]

All right.

[Bill Maher]

You don't think prostitution should be.

[Billy Corgan]

I don't really have an opinion. I've sort of gotten bored with the whole libertarian movement at some point. It seems to not live in reality, but generally speaking, I believe in a free society.

[Bill Maher]

Well, excuse me. But not thinking that a lot of people can't get sex and would benefit from paying to get it. That's not living in reality. The reality is most people are sexually stifled, frustrated, inept. And, you know, there's something called a sex surrogate, which, again, funny.

[Billy Corgan]

Actually, I think I talked to one once. I feel like I have a memory about talking to somebody.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I mean, it's a. Again, if you just rephrased it, it's a prostitute. It's someone who's helping you.

[Billy Corgan]

No, no, her whole take was like, she goes in and helps the couple and.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, that's. Well, that's not a sex surrogate. That sounds like a therapist. But.

[Billy Corgan]

But no, but she would have sex with the people. Oh, no. Do you know about this?

[Bill Maher]

With both of them?

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

She'd have sex with the wife and the husband.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. It was like. The idea was like, that's a full service. And I had this conversation. So something like this, and I'm just paraphrasing for the sake of conversation. Husband and wife, they've been together. They don't want to get divorced. They don't want to have affairs, but they're kind of stuck in their. In their intimate life. She comes in and teaches her how to get him off. And he. She teaches him and some. But in order. The only way to do it is she's got to kind of be in the bed.

[Bill Maher]

There's a great movie about that. When I say great, I mean not great, but funny, because it doesn't know. It's not great, but it's still amusing. It's with Meryl Streep and Tommy Lee Jones, okay?

[Billy Corgan]

And Martin Short is in this.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, no. Steve Carell, okay? I don't remember the name of it, but Meryl Streep and Tommy Lee Jones are a married couple. They've been married for a thousand years. He comes home at night and he falls asleep in front of the Golf Channel, and she has just had it with this sexless, loveless peck on the cheek. Go to work, fall asleep in front of the Golf Channel. Marriage. So she sends him to this academy or something run by Steve Carell, where he's got to relearn how to fuck Meryl Streep. And it's just. I mean, it gets at this exact point, and he, of course, is not into the concept, but when she threatens to leave him, he does it. And part of it was she was learning how to fuck him again because they had forgotten. And she's the funniest scene. I bet you she did it herself. Maybe it's in the script, but she's sitting there and she's reading the manual, and it's telling her how to do it with a banana, you know?

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

And so she's, like, starting to just suck the banana and then absentmindedly starts eating the banana. It's a classic.

[Billy Corgan]

What's the name of this movie?

[Bill Maher]

I don't know. I forget the name of it. But, you know, just Google Meryl Streep Relearns how to Fuck Tommy Lee Jones. And you will, trust me, ChatGPT will have this answer for you just like that. Are you into the chatter? Are you friends with your chatter? Is that something you think is bad for society?

[Billy Corgan]

Are we talking AI or are we talking.

[Bill Maher]

I'm talking both, but, I mean, I have my issues, especially with chatty.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, my general thing is using Grok or ChatGPT or even Google, whatever their AI is, for sort of research, like a quicker version of Googling. I'm cool with that because I just assume it's an amalgamation of a vibe.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, there is. I mean, there's great things about it.

[Billy Corgan]

But in terms of the furious row that's coming down the line for the arts in AI, well, then I have a ton of opinions on those, but I don't want to bore you with those if it's not interesting to you.

[Bill Maher]

It's very interesting to me. I'm in the arts, so pick a lane. As much as I'm in the arts.

[Billy Corgan]

I know you are, but you can't be replaced. So you're good.

[Bill Maher]

So far. That is true. So far.

[Billy Corgan]

You're Irreplaceable.

[Bill Maher]

And you think you are.

[Billy Corgan]

I feel. I feel fine. But, but, but, but. But I. I'm also very transparent.

[Bill Maher]

It is scary that they have come up with like. I mean, I have an Elvis track. That's not Elvis. It's AI Elvis.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

That is a little frightening.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, it's what I've been saying, because I get asked a lot about it in music interviews is my general thing is it's over. It's already over. The world you thought of. Of music. Just start with music. It's over. It's already over. You don't see it, but it's over.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you're gonna have to put some meat on that bone.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay? You're 15 years old. Okay? When you were 15 years old. When I was 15 years old, it was the garage playing the Led Zeppelin into infinity to learn how to play something, something, something. Right? Okay, that's. That's over. If you're 15 years old now, okay, that. That time you're using so you can watch more porn. If you can press a button. If you can press a button and that thing can write a song for you or tell you.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

Even if it gets you 87% down the road. And then you use your intuition and whatever talent you have to kind of finish it and say, it's yours. It's over. It's over. Over.

[Bill Maher]

And that's where we are.

[Billy Corgan]

Five years from now. So we're in 2025 when we're doing this. Five years from now, the music landscape will be completely devastated by AI on every level. Every level. Now, I'm not going to say it's a bad thing. You will have a bifurcated society of people who do organic music, and they're literally going to say, I'm an organic musician. This is what I do. I'm not using all this technology. And there will be this other world that won't give a shit.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, organic. It sounds like the next generation from acoustic.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Bill Maher]

Right? It's like I'm gonna.

[Billy Corgan]

But people will be celebrated for being right.

[Bill Maher]

No, just. It's funny because it really will be a recapitulation of Dylan went electric and to the. I mean, that's one reason why I thought that movie was so great, because they picked just that one moment, which I'm sure that eluded some people who were not around for it. Or maybe it got to the smart ones who could put themselves in that moment. But, I mean, even I was too young in 1965 to appreciate what was going On. But the idea that the old guard, the folk, because he did start in the folk world were just. It just seems so quaint now. Apoplectically appalled that Bob Dylan, the. The. The great hope of future folk music. The. The. The guy who was going to carry the banner of Woody Guthrie and those types, he went electric. And of course the world was like, great, because that's a great record. Like a rolling stone with the great organ and the electric guitar. And you're right, the audience. And by the way, the audience has no responsibility to give a shit. They just want to be entertained.

[Billy Corgan]

That's why I say it's over. Right, Right.

[Bill Maher]

And they're not going to give a shit.

[Billy Corgan]

You're saying it's over.

[Bill Maher]

And like, I'm that guy. I always say it. I'm just a young man in the 22nd row, you know, I'm just. Because I have no musical ability, which is so liberating. So I can just like what I like and not like what I like and not worry and not about, like, does it matter? Is it important music?

[Billy Corgan]

That's. That's kind of what I'm saying. If you. Yeah, if there's an AI artist or there's an artist, you know, who's using AI to advance their. Whatever their. Their musical cause, you won't give a.

[Bill Maher]

And, and what you're thinking is that they all are. By now. They must be.

[Billy Corgan]

From what I've heard, there's not a song coming out of Nashville right now that doesn't have AI involvement, particularly with lyrics.

[Bill Maher]

I read in the paper yesterday. Cartoon movies, you know, I guess.

[Billy Corgan]

How about. How about editing? How about camera work? How about. I mean, every level of entertainment is gonna be affected. You pay. Do I assume you pay comedy writers? Do you pay comedy writers?

[Bill Maher]

Not personally, but my generous network does, yes.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, good. So my point is, is whatever your budget is a year for comedy writers. Let's say it's 100k. If you can go, I don't have to pay those guys anymore. Girls, there's 100k in Bill Maher's pocket. And by the way, I like the jokes better.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, trust me, I've looked into it. No, I haven't. Guys. But they are definitely not there yet with comedy.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, how about AI porn?

[Bill Maher]

Because comedy is just so, like, part of it just can't be sussed out with logic. It just strikes you as funnier as it doesn't. And sometimes the more off the wall it is.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Bill Maher]

And AI isn't there yet with, like, being So I just. I just can't imagine them writing the. The kind of jokes I do.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, but you. You know, also, you produce a television show. If you could save half a million a year using AI to do your editing or to your. To your sound or your.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, those are not my decisions. I mean, no, but I.

[Billy Corgan]

But you know how the world works.

[Bill Maher]

Absolutely. Bottom line, no, they're going to do it. But the other thing AI can't do is that I. They could. This is gonna sound catty, but they could do other shows because they're so predictable in their politics. And that's one of my issues with AI it is programmed by the woke. And I know this cause somebody once asked it what was my best standup special? And first of all, it shouldn't even be giving opinions. But it gave the wrong one. And I know why. Because it was programmed by Woke. So it picked like one from 20 years ago that was Woker. Because 20 years ago, the Democrats weren't funny. The liberals hadn't gone off the deep end on a lot of issues, and it was just Bush. And Also we were 10 years away from gay marriage. And a lot of the special, or at least the end of it, was about how we should have gay marriage. So the AI thing was like, oh, this is the best. And it's not. It's good. I mean, but it's 20 years ago, the one I did in December, way better. But AI can't do that. Just the way, like, why do I use the old ipod? The old one, the wheel one, Bill.

[Billy Corgan]

The one where Billy Joel is featured prominently?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, among others. Why? Because, like, I like to put my playlist together in a way that, like, no, none of those services can do. Because they can only. If you say play songs like this, they just take it from the same era. I can play a song 40 years apart from another song I see. And they have the exact same vibe, but they're from completely different eras. And Pandora can't do that.

[Billy Corgan]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

So they've got a ways to go. Will they get there? I don't know. But look, we had a good run.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, we had fun.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, didn't you just play a stadium with 80,000 people?

[Billy Corgan]

65.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, well, it's a lot of people.

[Billy Corgan]

There's a lot of people.

[Bill Maher]

It's a lot of people.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. No, no.

[Bill Maher]

And you're going on.

[Billy Corgan]

I'm comfortable with all that, but because I have young children. Nine, six and a baby. I mean, they're gonna grow up in a world where AI is gonna be pervasive on every level of creativity.

[Bill Maher]

You just had a baby, huh?

[Billy Corgan]

Mm.

[Bill Maher]

Wow.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. And thank God it looks like me.

[Bill Maher]

And how many baby mamas do you have?

[Billy Corgan]

Only one.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, wow.

[Billy Corgan]

Only one.

[Bill Maher]

You call yourself a rock star.

[Billy Corgan]

In fact, as we're taping this today, my wife just turned 33, so I'm.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, so you're robbing the cradle too? Well, you look you there like me and Bill. You like young women. I mean, how old are you?

[Billy Corgan]

58.

[Bill Maher]

How dare you? How dare you be. So how old was she when you got married?

[Billy Corgan]

We got married two years ago.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, two years ago.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. We had kids before we got married. I refused to get married, so I finally capitulated.

[Bill Maher]

So you were with her when she was in her young 20s.

[Billy Corgan]

We met when she was 19 and I was 19.

[Bill Maher]

Beats me. I at least wait till there's a two in front of their name.

[Billy Corgan]

Bill, you're a great. You're a great orator, you're a great comedian, you're a great thought leader. But I'm a rock star, Bill.

[Bill Maher]

That's so true. That is so true. I cannot fight that. You are so right about that. You are a rock star and you deserve those extra two years. That's awesome.

[Billy Corgan]

God bless her. Because I don't know what the hell she saw in me. I mean. Oh, shit, there's obvious things, but.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, boy. You know what? Stop with the false Monty. I hate when guys do that. I'm so lucky. You should so shut the fuck up. You know what? You're a rock star. You're really funny. You seem like a great guy. I mean, you got money. I mean, I'm not feeling bad for her. That just to put up with Billy Corgan of the Smashing Pumpkin.

[Billy Corgan]

She's done all right.

[Bill Maher]

She's done all right. Yeah, but she. And a baby. That's gotta be. Is that.

[Billy Corgan]

It's a feral baby, Bill, though.

[Bill Maher]

Feral.

[Billy Corgan]

Feral.

[Bill Maher]

Sorry, feral.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, there was that singer, Feral Sharkey. Right. So I'm confusing Feral Sharkey and feral baby.

[Bill Maher]

Do you remember the song I might like you better if we slept together?

[Billy Corgan]

I covered it at Dodger Stadium, opening for kiss, Halloween Night, 1998.

[Bill Maher]

Is that why I remember that?

[Billy Corgan]

Maybe.

[Bill Maher]

It may be because the record itself.

[Billy Corgan]

Great record.

[Bill Maher]

Susie and the Banshees.

[Billy Corgan]

No, it was Romeo Void. They had two hits. I might like you better if we slept together in a girl in Trouble. Bill, I know my rock. Great band. Great band. I think from Southern California, actually.

[Bill Maher]

Wow. I might like you better if we.

[Billy Corgan]

Slow down What a great song.

[Bill Maher]

What a great title. Yeah, you know, like, title's a big thing with a record, right? You gotta.

[Billy Corgan]

Some people are big on titles.

[Bill Maher]

Like, I say, title's not bad.

[Billy Corgan]

Some people, they say they can't write like an Irving Berlin type writer. They would want the title first. Like, if you knew Susie, like I knew Susie. You know what I mean? Right.

[Bill Maher]

Quite an example.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, we're going back to Eddie Cantor there.

[Bill Maher]

I was gonna say no, but I'm.

[Billy Corgan]

Saying that's how those guys wrote. It was like the title, had to sell the song and then they would write the song. I'm not a title guy.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, I think bands throughout the ages have liked titles.

[Billy Corgan]

But I. I mean, I wrote Bullet with Butterfly Wings.

[Bill Maher]

That's a great title.

[Billy Corgan]

I think I stole it from Freud, actually.

[Bill Maher]

I remember in the Eagles documentary, Glenn Frey, it was like I was riding with some guy in a car, we were on coke, and he said, life in the fast Lane. And he was like, okay, that's a good title.

[Billy Corgan]

You wanna listen to the song?

[Bill Maher]

But it was almost like, I have nothing but that, but I'm already like three quarters of the way through with this song.

[Billy Corgan]

How about Desperado? How about Hotel California? I mean, what great titles.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

But are you an Eagles fan?

[Bill Maher]

Very much so. But I don't feel like they get you as much as Life in the Fast Lane. I mean, what's Hotel California? It could be about anything. We love it. Cause we know the song Desperado. Yeah, that's pretty good.

[Billy Corgan]

I think Hotel California is one of the great lyrics of all time.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, the lyrics?

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, I mean, that was the lyrics there.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, yes. And Don has been asked about it a thousand times and he always says, you know, first of all, he's tired of being asked about it.

[Billy Corgan]

And he says, well, I would be too.

[Bill Maher]

It's just about a journey from innocence to experience.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

Why does that piss you off so?

[Billy Corgan]

No, because I'm empathetic. Because I know what it's like to be asked about something over and over again, but I don't buy the answer is kind of what I'm saying.

[Bill Maher]

What do you think it's about?

[Billy Corgan]

I think it's about la. I mean, I think it is. I think it's the greatest. I call it Dark la.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

Right, Dark. It is the greatest dark LA song of all time.

[Bill Maher]

You're right.

[Billy Corgan]

Better if we slept together, you could say, that's a dark LA song.

[Bill Maher]

No, LA is Dark. California's dark. Some great writer. I forget. May have been. Dashiell Hammett said, you know, L. A, it's a sunny place for shady people.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, Chandler, I mean, he. Raymond Chandler, he encapsulated the darkness of this place or even. What's that book? Day of the Locust?

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

Have you read that book?

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, you want to talk about Dark L. A?

[Bill Maher]

I've seen it.

[Billy Corgan]

And that book was written in, like, 1939.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I think if you asked the average person, like, where do you think, you know, the noir movies take place? Or like, that milieu, they would think, oh, that's a New York thing. No, no, no, no, no. It's San Francisco.

[Billy Corgan]

Right down the street, it's San Francisco.

[Bill Maher]

Sam Spade, it's la. It's always out here. Chinatown, all of them.

[Billy Corgan]

It's.

[Bill Maher]

We're a shady, messy people out here.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, and. But we're seduced by. Of course.

[Billy Corgan]

Can I tell you about my first LA trip as an adult? Do you mind if I tell you?

[Bill Maher]

Please.

[Billy Corgan]

So I came out here as a kid. We went to Disneyland and all that stuff. But when I came the first time as an adult, about. I was about 21 or so, and I came out with a friend, and we end up staying with the friend's sister. And, you know, we're off Hollywood Boulevard, and it's all, you know. You know, it's right out of the movies. I'm walking and looking at the stars on the thing, and, you know, I have that impression a lot of people have, which. Is that kind of. Is that all there is? It's more built up here as a tourist industry. But back in the 80s, it was kind of. There wasn't much to see. You know what I mean? You had the stars on the Hollywood Boulevard, to quote Ray Davies.

[Bill Maher]

I have one.

[Billy Corgan]

You do. Congratulations.

[Bill Maher]

Thanks.

[Billy Corgan]

Are you proud of it?

[Bill Maher]

Of course not. It's ridiculous. You can buy one.

[Billy Corgan]

That's true.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, I think you could. I mean, not anybody, but. Yeah, it's not. And if you just walk on the boulevard and. Yes, that is a great song.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Stepping on Bello Stepping on.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Yo. I know that song very well.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, they're a great song.

[Bill Maher]

You know, like. Yes. You see a lot of the biggest stars in the world, and then you come across names you just don't even know.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, that's true.

[Bill Maher]

You know, I mean, I happen to be near Clark Gable, so I'm near.

[Billy Corgan]

That's not bad.

[Bill Maher]

No, that's not bad. But everybody's near somebody and then. And then there's, like, you know Biff Cumstein? Like who the fuck was this guy Biff Cumstein?

[Billy Corgan]

Well, what?

[Bill Maher]

I don't know.

[Billy Corgan]

He was a cameraman for Cecil B. DeMille.

[Bill Maher]

He crossed in a brown sport coat in some movie in the 30s. I don't know, it just, you know, it is what it is. But yes, I was happy to go. It was 2010. I remember the ceremony and Larry King and Seth showed up and lots of my friends and you know, they give a speech.

[Billy Corgan]

I think it's cool.

[Bill Maher]

It's cool. Look, I love Hollywood. I love all the bullshit. I love not. I always say I'm in show business, but I'm not of it because I'm not really like them and I'm not really in any category. But like when I go to the Vanity Fair Oscar party, it's to me that's like going to Disneyland to stand in the middle of a room and everywhere you look is a star. Because the stars in this town, they do not come out at night. I don't know what people most of.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, to be fair, a lot of them do work.

[Bill Maher]

That's why. Exactly. It's a working town.

[Billy Corgan]

And movies start and always has been, has been.

[Bill Maher]

And movies start at 6am yeah, that's.

[Billy Corgan]

A cruel business for that.

[Bill Maher]

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[Billy Corgan]

Futurama returns on September 15.

[Bill Maher]

Blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day, the Planet Express crew is back, defying gravity and common sense.

[Billy Corgan]

From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is.

[Bill Maher]

Hotter, the threats are bigger, and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of.

[Billy Corgan]

Futurama returning September 15th at 8pm Watch.

[Bill Maher]

It on FXX or streaming on Hulu. You know why so many, like male actors of a certain era look terrible now and I look pretty good? Because I don't spend all day in the sun and they have to. You're on the set all fucking day. There's only so much sunscreen in the world. And you're just out there and you're just baked. This is a working town. People just, it's not a party town. But like on those few nights when the stars do come out, it is fun to look around the room or be able to talk to all of them. And of course, it's show business. Most of them are pretty stupid. But you know, they're talented. They're just, the people are so talented. And there's notable exceptions but you know, thinking just ain't their thing.

[Billy Corgan]

I, I, I always find people that are in the zeitgeist fascinating.

[Bill Maher]

Like who it is doesn't matter.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, pick your, pick your Hollywood party.

[Bill Maher]

Taylor Swift.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Bill Maher]

Zeitgeist.

[Billy Corgan]

That is, I mean, I have my opinions on that whole thing at this point and I probably should keep to myself so I don't get attacked by the Swifties.

[Bill Maher]

But no, I, I, I say it all the time. I find her as a person so admirable. She Never does anything I find to be, like, in any way objectionable. She's classy, you know, you never get her with a bad picture. She seems very responsible, very smart, a good sense of humor.

[Billy Corgan]

As a business person, first of all, she's very talented. So I'm going to say that real quick, because as a musician, from a musician to a musician, she's very talented.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, I don't get the music, but that's just my. But that's just me.

[Billy Corgan]

Take it from me, she's very, very talented. I'm sure she is, but I was going to say is, as a business person, she's brilliant.

[Bill Maher]

Brilliant, Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, it's a total coup. What she's. She built.

[Bill Maher]

Absolutely.

[Billy Corgan]

So you can. You can only marvel at it. In fact, quick, quick, statistic that I heard behind the scenes, the demand for her concert tour, the stadium tour, was 900 stadiums. They could have sold 900 stadiums full of tickets. Now, that is an accomplishment.

[Bill Maher]

No, I always say that too. Like, even if you don't personally appreciate something on the artistic level, it doesn't tickle you. You gotta give it up for success. You just have to, or else you.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, that's what I mean. I like the glow of the zeitgeist because I feel like it says something about the American public. Like, look, for example, why her? This generation, why Barbra Streisand, another generation, why? And look, why Hedy Lamarr? Whatever. You know what I'm saying? Headley, Lamar Henley.

[Bill Maher]

Lamar, yeah. Blazing salad.

[Billy Corgan]

No, but I'm saying is. What is it about an age that picks certain people?

[Bill Maher]

You're so. That's such an interesting point. And you're right about her. And look, she's a little whiny about her exes, but in general, could.

[Billy Corgan]

It's been good for business.

[Bill Maher]

Today's young women have a worse role model. Absolutely. As role models go, I'm very happy with them having their Taylor Swift. Now, do I think it's pathetic that they lived their lives so much through her that they were like, in tears when she got engaged? Yes, I do. Because I don't think it's healthy to live your life so much through another human being.

[Billy Corgan]

You have your own, who you'll never meet. Are there Bill Maher groupies? You know what I mean? No, I mean, I'm serious. I mean, do you have. You have your, like, kind of groupie contingent?

[Bill Maher]

I don't investigate this, but somebody showed me on one of the dating sites there is a category like, you can, like, on your interest. Bill Maher. And there are. Yeah, there was a lot of people.

[Billy Corgan]

Like Daddy Bill or.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, just Bill Maher. And I thought that was flattering, but.

[Billy Corgan]

I'm not because I'm getting some of that now, now that I'm in my 50s.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

You know, my social media person will show me, and it's like they start calling me, like, Daddy Billy. I wish that Billy was my daddy, but not like that daddy.

[Bill Maher]

That's more like a Zaddy.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, I don't know what Zaddy is.

[Bill Maher]

Zaddy's a guy who's like a daddy figure, but also sexy. You know, like a zaddy.

[Billy Corgan]

I was named People magazine sexiest man at 50. Like, they picked everyone from a certain age. So I got 56.

[Bill Maher]

Friend of mine who's around your age or my age, somewhere in between. Like, he said to me recently, I wouldn't say what field he's in, but show business. And he said, you know, this girl came up to me and said, you're so iconic. And he said, can you believe it? I'm getting iconic pussy now. And, yes, that's what you would get.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Well, I'm married.

[Bill Maher]

But you're happily married.

[Billy Corgan]

I'm very happily married, I'm happy to say. I'm happily married, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I know you had a rough childhood, so that must be great for you that you can find that kind of stability that was lacking in your earlier years.

[Billy Corgan]

I will candidly say that I had a very incredible artistic life. And I thought I'd kind of seen it all twice and, you know, dark la and all of it, and. No, I did. I mean, I lived it all, the good and the bad and the crazy and. And. And until I was happily married and I had my own family, I. I didn't really appreciate what I'd done and built. And now that I have that balance now, I have so much more zest and zeal for my musical life. It. It. It was the thing that I. And maybe because I didn't have it as a kid with my family, so I never really knew what it was like to have a family. I mean, I had a family, of course, but I'm saying I didn't have the stability that this marriage has brought me. So having that now, it's like, I finally feel like, okay, this all makes sense. You know, if you do something like you chase a career, you know, which is a dirty word in my business career, you're not supposed to say the word career. But if you. If you do all that and you do accomplish something, and people say, oh, you're this. And, you know, I love this album, but you always kind of feel this kind of hollowness about it, but you don't really know what it is. And I realized it was because I didn't have the one thing I really wanted, which was a family.

[Bill Maher]

I still don't really see how they interact with each other. Like, I get the tension because I certainly have felt it in my own life, between career and love.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Bill Maher]

To me, those are the two things that were always vying. And I might say, if I go back and analyze my own life, the fact that I was dumped so hard in high school and it broke me so badly.

[Billy Corgan]

What was her name?

[Bill Maher]

No, we're not gonna go into that.

[Billy Corgan]

Pick up a name.

[Bill Maher]

No, no.

[Billy Corgan]

Sally.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, Sally. Sally. Ten fingers. She had ten fingers. Yeah, I know. That's not really that weird. Anyway, Sally. And I feel like from that moment on, I was like Scarlett o' Hara when she says, you know, yes, God is my witness, I'll never go hungry again.

[Billy Corgan]

I see.

[Bill Maher]

I was like, as God is my witness, I will never get my heart broken again like this. And I will put my eggs in the basket of what I can control, which is my career.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay?

[Bill Maher]

That is what will make me happy. Because I can't count on this other thing.

[Billy Corgan]

Looking back now, not saying that the dream is over, but I do feel that was the right decision.

[Bill Maher]

Great question. That, you know, I probably should think about more. And there's a lot to be said. It's not a, you know, 90, 10, it's a 50, 50 kind of a thing.

[Billy Corgan]

Because you. Sorry. Cause you. You were poking around about me, like you were saying, trying to understand it. No, but I'm saying is. I'm trying to sort of answer your question. Why? I'm asking you one.

[Bill Maher]

No, it's a great. It's a great question. I mean, look, I'm not going to get too specific. It all just came out in the wash. I'll just put it that way. I think I was never meant to, like, through the very formative years of my life that probably goes on longer than it should have, was never gonna be tied down anyway. It just wasn't my nature. And part of that, you know, is, again, rockstar, you know, you're probably so inundated that, you know, you get it all out of your system quicker.

[Billy Corgan]

That's true, that's true. I remember a point. I was actually out here. I was working for an extended period of time, and it was the first time in my Life where I was just gonna, like. It was like, okay, I'm gonna live, like, free, right? You know? And I would meet people and I would say, look, don't ask. I don't wanna be tied down.

[Bill Maher]

Right?

[Billy Corgan]

Like, I'm being totally transparent about this. I'd never really been that way in my life. And I was surprised how many women were like, okay, cool. Most of them, of course, thought they were going to try to reel me in on the back end. I'm sure you've had a few of those. And it got to the point where the balloon went off. The rose of what I thought freedom was. Freedom to me was do what you want when you want to do it, and as long as you're having a good time and everybody's all adults and everybody's cool. And I lived like that for a while. And I woke up one day, I was like, this is boring. And I never. And to be fair to anybody. And I'm not bragging. There's no bragging. This. I got to the point where I was like, this isn't really what I'm after.

[Bill Maher]

Right. I get it.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I disagree on the boring. It never gets boring, what you hit on there, which I think.

[Billy Corgan]

Bill, let me tell you a story. Let me tell you a story, okay? Because I'm going to agree with you on this one point.

[Bill Maher]

Okay?

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

I was with this girl and a circus animal.

[Billy Corgan]

No, no, just a girl.

[Bill Maher]

Okay?

[Billy Corgan]

Just a girl. And we're in flagrante in bed, and she says to me, can you lick my back?

[Bill Maher]

Sure, as one does.

[Billy Corgan]

And I said. And she was pretty hot. So I was like, okay, if that's.

[Bill Maher]

What you want, I've done it without asking.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, good. And it was like one of those, like. You know when somebody asks you to scratch your back? It's like, no, a little more up to the right and to the left. And in this one spot in her back, she could orgasm from having her back licked in this one spot.

[Bill Maher]

Do you have her number?

[Billy Corgan]

Actually, I do. And the way she explained it to me. And God bless if she ever hears this, she's a very nice person. The way she explained it to me is that sometimes I'm not a doctor, but apparently certain nerves get rerouted, I'm sure. So how some people can orgasm by, say, having their nipple licked, sometimes that nerve reroutes to a different spot in the body. So in her case, the nerve was in her back. So as long as you lick this one spot in her back, that's almost. So that Never got boring, Bill, let me tell you.

[Bill Maher]

That's almost the plot of Deep Throat.

[Billy Corgan]

Is it? Oh, that's right. Linda Lovelace.

[Bill Maher]

Do you remember Deep Throat?

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, yeah. It's the first pornography I ever saw.

[Bill Maher]

Bill, and the one that was the first sort of crossover. It was a national sensation. And what was the plot of Deep Throat?

[Billy Corgan]

She could orgasm by.

[Bill Maher]

Her clit was in her throat.

[Billy Corgan]

Right? Well, maybe she was just the nerve rerouting.

[Bill Maher]

That's what I'm saying. It's almost the plot.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. So I live that.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, I think so.

[Billy Corgan]

I'm saying is that part didn't get boring.

[Bill Maher]

A back on a woman can be, like, the sexiest part.

[Billy Corgan]

Like, I see. You know what I don't find, despite all your bluster, Bill, you're really a romantic.

[Bill Maher]

I do not find a beautiful back. I do not find any less sexy than the front. And sometimes more. And so, like, I know you're not allowed to show the front, but you are allowed to show the back, which I always thought was, like, great. That's fine. Just. Just show the back. I'm good. Is this too intimate for you? You brought up licking back. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. That's, that's how I feel.

[Billy Corgan]

I'm just processing it all, Bill.

[Bill Maher]

No, I, I, I see that, but what was the important point that we were getting to? That I really.

[Billy Corgan]

You were trying to. You were trying to understand the connection between me not finding peace by having a successful musical life and then how love or marriage. Successful marriage. How they sort of fit together.

[Bill Maher]

That's why it's so important that one of us isn't smoking.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Am I paraphrasing you perfectly?

[Bill Maher]

And that is really what's in my mind, because I'm trying to get that connection. Because you're basically saying, unless I'm getting it wrong, that you weren't able to appreciate, you know, your massive career success before you had the love. And I get that. The love is. You could then find the love and be like, oh, and this is even better.

[Billy Corgan]

No, I get.

[Bill Maher]

But why. I don't know why you couldn't access the satisfaction from the career before you.

[Billy Corgan]

I can tell you why. I can tell you why.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Billy Corgan]

I had a million dollars by the time I was 24 years old. Okay. A year before that, I was making $12,000 a year working at a record store, and I was broke. Okay? So I'm a mil. You know, I mean, we grew up in a time where millionaire these days, Millionaire is not. Doesn't mean as much. But the word millionaire still meant something in my brain when I was 24 years old. So I have a million dollars when I'm 24 years old. By the time I'm 26, I'm TV. Platinum Records, Saturday Night Live cover, Rolling Stone. I mean, I basically did by my mid-20s, like, most of the checklist, all the boxes. Okay. And I never felt this sense of satisfaction about it. And I couldn't quite understand why, because everybody around me is like, this is fucking incredible. And I was like, it is and it isn't. Okay? So to answer your question, the problem with all of it is it's transactional. Because no matter how many hit songs you write, it's always, what about the next one? No matter how many records you're sold, there's always somebody who's gonna sell more records than you. No matter how good you are, there's always somebody telling you, writing online, that you're the worst thing that ever happened. There was always, like, an asterisk or a qualifier. And, I mean, even my band at times, was transactional with me. I mean, I would write these massive songs, and they were kind of like they didn't give a shit. It was weird.

[Bill Maher]

Why?

[Billy Corgan]

Well, that gets into band psychology. And we could talk about it if you want, but just to finish the little spiel, Only unconditional love in some facet of your life gives you the proper perspective to appreciate what is great about transactional things, but allows you to see them for what they are, which is transactional. There's no Valhalla at the top of Rock Mountain. There isn't. And I've been there multiple times. So when I stand in front of 65,000 people, in my hierarchical mind, my family is still above that, right?

[Bill Maher]

Sure.

[Billy Corgan]

I tell my kids all the time, and they're still little kids, and hopefully it'll endure in their brain. I tell them, because they'll come see me play, they'll come on stage with me. I mean, we pull up to where the Mets play in New York, and my daughter goes, how many people am I going to dance in front of today? And I said, well, 41,000. She goes, okay. And then an hour later, she's on stage with me dancing in front of 40,000 people. They're having these immense peak experiences, but I tell them over and over again, no matter what you see Daddy do, no matter what you hear about Daddy, good or bad, you're more important than that. You are so much more important than that to me, I would trade all of this for you, only unconditional love sort of clarifies what's great and not great about it. And if all you have. And because I came from nothing, it was about, am I on mtv? And if I'm not, I was devastated because I must be doing something wrong.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I get all that because it's ephemeral stardom, like beauty, like a lot of things.

[Billy Corgan]

Sorry. You started talking. We started talking, you know, within the context of the political thing. I mean, you are somebody who stood up for decades and talked about free speech and free thinking and a political part of this country because you're not willing to march in lockstep. Suddenly, all the things that you've contributed, suddenly it's out the door. But you've been doing. How many years you've been standing up there in the political maw?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. 32 on TV. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So the world we grew up in, that should mean something like, well, I'm mad at Bill Maher today, but it has some perspective. Now. We live in your. You're. You're either swinging for a. From a rope or you're. Or you're Chairman Ma.

[Bill Maher]

But, you know. Yes, but there are still lots of people who appreciate it.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, I'm with them.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. I appreciate it, and that's who I do it for. And you're right. And you're right. There are others who went for the exits when you don't fully just go for the team. And that is. First of all, it's not. It's not helpful. It's not going to elect the right people. And it's worst of all, boring.

[Billy Corgan]

It is boring.

[Bill Maher]

It's boring to be predictable. It's what my friend calls. Let me guess. Politics. Something happens and. Let me guess. You know, like when there's a shooting, like, right before they even check anything, they know who did it. They know whose side the person was on. Okay, let me guess. Or Trump does something. Let me guess. You know, it's just. It's boring and it's not sophisticated. It's just not sophisticated.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, that's why I took myself out of the political discourse, because I couldn't. I've had a very unique life. And it's not. Not everybody agrees. But the point is, I've had a unique perspective. I've been in the White House. I've met smart people like you. I've been behind the Wizard's Curtain 500 times. I have a very unique perspective on the way the world works. It's not for everybody, but you can't say I don't have a unique perspective. Not many people have climbed up that particular mountain for that length of time. And when you can't have a nuanced, intelligent discussion that's not even trying to make a point to somebody, just like, let's just talk. And, hey, by the way, based on my experiences, this is the way I read the football thing.

[Bill Maher]

And that's why I love to have people like Charlie Kirk sit there as he did, because I'm not gonna agree with most of what he says. First of all, he was very. Christy and all that. I'm an atheist. But it's okay. He's a human being and not a dummy. And unless people get it through their thick fucking skulls, you're going to have to talk to people. Let me tell you something, Bill. We've had over 200 guests here sitting in that chair. I would guess at least a quarter of them say something that is full on bonkers, in my view.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

You know, like, we didn't land on the moon, shit like that.

[Billy Corgan]

Or maybe I licked her back and.

[Bill Maher]

Or.

[Billy Corgan]

That.

[Bill Maher]

That is the least crazy thing. You're not in that category. Okay, so far. I mean, I don't know.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, we got. We got a few minutes.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, we got a few minutes. But if you start just. Just dismissing people for anything other than just the most kind of egregious, you know, I'm a Nazi and I'm. I'm proud of it. Although even Kanye has survived. And I'm not for canceling him either. He sat here once. We didn't air it because I would have been canceled. Or, you know, I'm a cannibal. Not like an army hammer, who was not a cannibal, and he sat here and I was happy to rehabilitate him, but an actual cannibal, you know, Unless it's something like, so out there, you know, you just gotta get over yourself and talk to these people. And for all those assholes who are like, you know, I can't believe you talked to Trump. Okay, I'm not even gonna go into why that's such a stupid opinion, but just where does it end? All right, I can't talk to him. Who's next? People who voted for him? Can I not talk to Joe Rogan?

[Billy Corgan]

Right?

[Bill Maher]

Can't even talk to him. What about Sylvester Stallone? He's such a great guy. Stallone, Rocky? Really? I can't talk to him? Fuck off with this. Yeah, you know, so, I don't know. We got back onto that. I really didn't Want to. I really didn't want.

[Billy Corgan]

No, I wasn't trying to lead you.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, I, I. It's on my mind. It's on our minds. It's terrible. Let me tell you something. I got off the road. I'm so glad I did last year. I mean, at the end of last year, I wouldn't want to be out there right now. It's. It's getting a little chippy. It's getting a little chippy out there.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Let's hope from this moment that there's no more of that.

[Bill Maher]

If I were you, I would stay out of it.

[Billy Corgan]

Oh, I know I do.

[Bill Maher]

You're in front of 65,000 people. That's not a security.

[Billy Corgan]

No, I leave it to the way I look at it. And I don't. Because at one point I wondered if I was compromised. Meaning, like, should I be saying certain things when I feel, you know, like a day like today, it's like, should I say something or not or just let me finish. No, because I want to make sure I'm clear. Because I don't want people to misconstrue what I'm saying. My best contribution is art.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

You're a person who lives in the Political Firestorm Weekly.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, it's my job.

[Billy Corgan]

You chose that.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

And you're great at it. And you talk to people behind the scenes. You have very illuminated people on from every walk of the political stripe. Okay, so I'm more of a leave it to the people who are in the fight. And I use that word loosely because.

[Bill Maher]

Obviously I want you to, because, first of all, you know, you're an eloquent, elliptical lyricist. Let that speak for itself. You don't need to give them a reason when you're in front of a crowd like that.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, I also came to the conclusion that I'm never gonna exactly say what I wanna say. Not in a song. Like, my gift is to say it in a song.

[Bill Maher]

That's what I'm saying.

[Billy Corgan]

Yes. So if I really wanna contribute, then write Imagine or Bullet with Butterfly Wings. That's my contribution. That's what the God that I believe in animated me to do. The other stuff is really for people who wanna be in it on a daily level. And I can respect and appreciate that even if I don't always agree.

[Bill Maher]

Right. So you were talking about unconditional love.

[Billy Corgan]

Sure.

[Bill Maher]

And that's. I mean, kids, I can kind of get that. Because, I mean, what's the worst thing a kid can do? I mean, they're feral, but you Know they're not, like, really capable of, like, murder or anything. But you think you can have that with a human? Yes, because, like, unconditional. So, like, if you killed somebody, she'd still. She'd stay with you? Is that what. Because, like, I feel like with adult humans, it's a kind of a tough argument to make. Unconditional because you can think of things someone would do where you kind of would want the other person.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, can I answer that? No, no, that's why I brought it up. No, no, but I want to, because I feel like I got what you're asking, I think, to ask another human being to live up to a standard of perfection. You know when we say unconditional, and you bring up, like, a thing like, okay, well, if you murdered somebody, is she going to stand next to you? You know, that type of thing? I think the one thing I would say is, you're right to point that out. And if you're going to ask me, is there anybody on this planet that I trust 100% that aren't my children, the answer is no. Now, I trust my wife more than most.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

Like, I don't know what the percentage is, but it's very, very high. And I've made that commitment. But the thing I would try to explain to you is once you have children, it's the highest bond you can have with another human being. So that's the closest I've ever come. And if you want to sort of give kind of standard to it, I didn't have it with my father. I didn't have it with my mother. I didn't have it with my stepmother. I didn't have it with my immediately family. I have a very good relationship with my brother, and I trust my brother a lot. So outside of my brother and his kids and his wife and my wife and our kids, it is all transactional on some level. And I've had the experience, however horrible it is. Where I was a kid ignored by members of my family. I got successful. Suddenly everybody was really interested in what I had to say. And then when my career went down, they all disappeared again. That's a tough one if you've lived it. So this is the closest I've ever come. And I'm not a person who's waiting around for perfection. I think at 58, I think I've got enough road beneath me to say, okay, if this is as good as it's gonna get and it's really good, okay, I'm gonna trust that. And if that there's still that 4%, 7%. Well, that's all I can tell you is when we got down. Cause I didn't want to get married. And I was very transparent with My wife. Said, do not want to get married. Cause I'd been married before and went bad, divorce and all that. And I was just like, I don't want it. I don't want the state of Illinois in my. Okay. Especially when you're talking about songwriting copyrights and all that shit. And. And. And. And my wife said, you know, we talked a lot about it, and she was very intent on getting married. And it's not important why for this. But the one thing that became clear was that she said, look, I know you're not big on trust. I understand why. But I'm telling you, when we get married, our relationship will get better. And I couldn't for the life of me imagine how. And I'd been with her for eight, nine years at that point, and we had kids. I couldn't conceive of it intellectually. And I'm telling you, the day after I got married, I looked at her and said, motherfucker, you're right.

[Bill Maher]

Why?

[Billy Corgan]

Because it brought us just that little bit closer. Because we were willing to take that. That leap of faith. And at the end of the day, I mean, you're here because at some point, you bet on Bill Maher. You said, I got something that nobody else has got. And I'm sure somebody told you, you ain't that funny, Bill. And I heard, you ain't that great. My own father told me I couldn't sing. And I'm sure there's somebody out there who would agree with him. But, you know, 30 million records later and 3,000 concerts later, I guess I'd do something, right? Right. So I had to navigate all that. And it's ultimately about. I think life is ultimately about faith and that. And I know you're not a religious person. That's where I think you could at least kind of find common ground with spirituality, which is, like. It is ultimately about faith. Like when people say, well, how do you know there's a God? And I go, I don't fucking know. I can't tell you that.

[Bill Maher]

No, that's what faith is.

[Billy Corgan]

That's what faith is. Now, if you want the guy to crack out of the sky and go, you know, like Mel Brooks, like, here I am. You know what I mean? I'm God.

[Bill Maher]

That's an interesting story. That it happened that quickly. Like. Like the wedding night you were Like, I felt it. Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

And. And it's held. And not to be so glib as to say it's like a percentage, but wherever we were on the line the day after I was married, we were closer, and we've gotten closer since. So that's all I know.

[Bill Maher]

Well, you probably felt good about giving her the thing that gave her peace of mind.

[Billy Corgan]

She would say. She would say, you know, I'm a guy. I complain all the time. She goes, how many fucking kids do you want? Like, I gave up my body, you know, nine months at a time.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

This is my test. If you want me to prove it to you.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

I can't.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

But I can point to them, right. And say, there's my living testament to how I feel about you.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

So that's. That's all I know. And I'm not. I'm not saying this for everybody. And I would have told you three years ago it wasn't for me.

[Bill Maher]

Right. I mean, that was always my issue with marriage was like, if it doesn't work out, it's like you've purposely put yourself in this prison that is very hard to escape from. And that's sort of the argument that they use for getting married. I mean, I've heard people say that in just so many words.

[Billy Corgan]

What, to be imprisoned?

[Bill Maher]

Well, not imprisoned, but that we want to get married because it would make it very difficult to break up.

[Billy Corgan]

I see.

[Bill Maher]

They feel like they have to put this stricture on.

[Billy Corgan]

I think that's the worst reason.

[Bill Maher]

Okay. But a lot of people do it for that reason.

[Billy Corgan]

Well, that's. To me, that's a weak argument.

[Bill Maher]

If somebody says, you have a big fight, I'm leaving. And you can't. You can't. We're married. You can't just leave. They like that. That they then have to work it out because otherwise you. It's lawyers and money and divorce and terrible, you know, and that's a big reason why people get married.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah, I. I was. I had a meeting yesterday with someone about a film project. And, you know, the guy said at the. At the end of the meeting, you know, he's like, look, if we're going to do this together, I need final cut on this project. And I'm. I'm going to say jokingly because I like the person. You know, this is Chicago way of saying it. It's like, motherfucker, if you need final cut, it ain't gonna work, right? If we're not in this together, I don't care what the fuck you Got on a piece of paper.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Billy Corgan]

And that's the same thing. I would say with the right marriage. If you need a piece of paper and a fucking ring, like, then it's gonna go to work.

[Bill Maher]

But then you did it.

[Billy Corgan]

No. Now, there. There are legalistic reasons, and there are sort of, let's call it performative reasons. You know, we present like we're married.

[Bill Maher]

I just think women like it. Sure, they do. They just like it. It's just. It's. You know, it's just like they feel like. I know.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, you just had Woody Allen in here.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay. My wife, not that long ago, when she was working as a maitre d in New York for a restaurant, a maitre d, Mrs. Woody Allen would call and make a reservation, and she knew it was Soon Yi. That's Woody's. Sure. And. And I think she even knew Soon Yi for some New York thing. And she would call and she say, this is Mrs. Woody Allen, of course.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I've known that from many. I mean, I live in. Well, I live in Los Angeles. We don't know what area. But I'm just saying, in some of the wealthier neighborhoods out here, you know, that's a very important thing that the wife, who sometimes doesn't even like the husband anymore, but they want to be able to call the restaurant and say, I. Mrs. Blankety.

[Billy Corgan]

Mrs. Bill Maher. This is Mrs. Bill Maher.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, well, that's not gonna happen. But it just. It's stature. I mean, we still have that in society. It's a certain stature, and it's a certain. I know we're all in the future. We're living in the future, and everything is not like it used to be. But women still are all about. Not all of them, but a lot of them are all about, I got a man. I mean, you know, these women who have, like, three names and have their first name and then their maiden name, and then it's a dad.

[Billy Corgan]

Hillary Rodham Clinton.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, exactly. It's a way to say, I'm an independent woman. And also, I got a man, okay? And I don't want you to forget I got a man, okay? Bitch, did you get a man? Because I got a man. His name's Clinton, or whatever it is. Like, I'm going to put that at the end of my independent name. And that's just human nature.

[Billy Corgan]

So. Maria Lopez Mar.

[Bill Maher]

I don't know her. Maria Lopez, but yeah. Anyway.

[Billy Corgan]

Have we run out of gas?

[Bill Maher]

Great. I have to get back. It's one of those weeks that's why.

[Billy Corgan]

God bless.

[Bill Maher]

It's just one of those weeks, God bless. Where like last week, everything was easy. Like the editorial. Just like Monday night, it was almost all done. This week is just. Some weeks it just gets harder. And then this big story today that happened in the middle of the day.

[Billy Corgan]

It's a lot to talk about this week.

[Bill Maher]

I really do. And I'm, you know, I don't try to get too emotional about things, but there is something about having somebody who's sitting right there and you just got to know as a human being. And then, I mean, death in itself is just a weird thing.

[Billy Corgan]

What's weird? And I don't mean this in any other way than the way I mean it. What's weird is we, we get fixated on how somebody dies. Like, would it have been better if he got hit by a bus or. You know what I'm saying? Like, death is death and that's the sorrow of it.

[Bill Maher]

Well, actually it would have been better because it wouldn't not. It would mean that there aren't this seething group of people on both sides who think the answer is to shoot each other. So, yes, it would Bill have been better if he was hit by a bus. It wouldn't have been good, but it wouldn't have been like this. This is just a place we don't. We keep heading towards and we don't want to keep barreling down towards. That's where my mind is at today.

[Billy Corgan]

So let me ask you.

[Bill Maher]

And also just the idea that, you know, you gotta stop seeing people as the other. You brought up that whole sectarian thing before. You're so right. In Rwanda.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah. Remember they were on the radio saying, go out and hatchet your neighbors. I mean, they were literally.

[Bill Maher]

Because they were vermin. Because same thing with Hitler. Because when you make the people who you don't agree with, the other, the deplorable, the people who you don't even deserve to live, that's when this shit starts.

[Billy Corgan]

So let me ask you, because you are in the fray on a daily level, what's one thing that you think needs to happen immediately?

[Bill Maher]

Both sides have to admit they do it. Stop with the. Yeah, but you know, the right wing. Absolutely true. The right wing has been terrible. There's a lot of right wing lunatics and nationalists and fucking violent people and marching in Charlottesville and lots of bullshit that goes on and killing. We can't have that argument that because plainly the left does it too. Now, I don't care who started it. Everybody both started it always, in these fights, it escalates, it goes up and up and up and up and up. And then we're just on these two sides screaming at each other, stop it. It has to start with everybody is doing this now and everybody has to stop now.

[Billy Corgan]

So we're basically a two party political system.

[Bill Maher]

You'd agree with that, a two team. It's not even about.

[Billy Corgan]

But I'm saying is, do you think there's enough will in the political leadership on both sides of the political aisle to whether they have to go into a room and say, hey, we really got to dial this down? Do you think there's enough political will there?

[Bill Maher]

No, because Trump's not going to do that.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay?

[Bill Maher]

He's not going to do that. And the Republicans who sat there with their arms folded, what Biden said, political violence has no place. And they were like, mm, yeah, that's not really worth clapping for as long as a Democrat said it. No, I don't think these people are gonna change yet. You know, I mean, I have a very pessimistic view, so I don't wanna bring everybody down, although I probably already have with a little bit of this discussion. But, you know, I just don't see this country coming back until Charlton Heston finds the Statue of Liberty almost buried in the sand with just the, just the, you know, remember the, and the end of the movie. And then like, okay, it kind of has to hit rock bottom first. And you know, okay, so how far.

[Billy Corgan]

Are we from rock bottom?

[Bill Maher]

We're barreling toward it, but we're not there yet. Because America is still a great fucking country. Even with all the bullshit you mentioned. Other places in the world, would you want to live anywhere else?

[Billy Corgan]

Well, when things started to get hairy somewhere in the last eight to 10 years and I sat at many tables with people, people openly who had success and wealth, they would sort of have these kind of general discussions, like, if something gets bad, bad, bad, where are we going to go? And everybody would always come to the same conclusion, which is there's nowhere to go.

[Bill Maher]

Well, a lot of them are going to Ireland and buying castles. Because that's what people do when they've had it up to here with privilege. They go buy a castle in Ireland. But yes, I mean, Ellen is decamped there. Rosie McDonnell. I just read Robin Wright has said she's fleeing. That's her.

[Billy Corgan]

Robin Wright Penn.

[Bill Maher]

Robin Wright Penn. Yes. Well, I think she's dropped the pen. Yes, but. And some other people, you know, they're fleeing, you know, always the People who lived in.

[Billy Corgan]

Would you leave America, Bill?

[Bill Maher]

Fuck no. Fuck you. If you think I'm leaving, I'm not leaving. Everything looks good from afar. Get there, you'll find a lot of shit. You know what? Go buy a castle in Ireland. Those castles are drafty. You'll be back, asshole.

[Billy Corgan]

But you can't get a castle for cheap. You know why? You know why I know that? Because I've looked.

[Bill Maher]

Are you serious?

[Billy Corgan]

I'm a rock star, Bill. We look at. We look at these things.

[Bill Maher]

Exactly. Rock stars have to have castles.

[Billy Corgan]

Last story. Last story. I know you gotta go work. Last story. I was working with the famous producer. He's just recently passed away. Great guy, Roy Thomas Baker, who produced all the famous Queen stuff. Roy, very pony, very English. And he was. He at. He at some point bought a castle. And we were fascinated. The band, you know, like, tell us all about the castle. He goes, oh, it was all right, you know, owning a castle. And he said it was drafty. You know, you think you get a castle, but then you find out you got to get the power and there's no ac. And. Right.

[Bill Maher]

The moat is down.

[Billy Corgan]

But. But okay, right. So we're like, okay. And he goes. He goes, but that's not the worst part. So what's the worst part? He goes, I had to buy the whole village that went with the castle. And we said, why did you have to buy a village? He goes, well, who the fuck's going to work on the castle, right? So we had to buy the village of the people who had been living in the village for generations, because only they knew how to take care of the castle that party didn't like.

[Bill Maher]

People here have bought villages. I think I may be remembering this wrong. Forgive me if I got the name wrong, but I seem to remember Kim Basinger, she bought a. Bought a town in the south. Of all the people, she didn't seem like someone who wanted a whole town, but. And of course, Jeffrey Epstein had an island, you know, I mean, Brando had his own island, Tahiti, in Tahiti.

[Billy Corgan]

I did look at an island once.

[Bill Maher]

Of course. I'd be so disappointed if you didn't.

[Billy Corgan]

It was about 5 million.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, where was it?

[Billy Corgan]

Somewhere in the Bahamas.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, nice.

[Billy Corgan]

Because Steve Miller had bought an island. The Great. The Joker.

[Bill Maher]

The Joker.

[Billy Corgan]

And at that point, an island seemed like a good idea.

[Bill Maher]

And why did you pull the string on that?

[Billy Corgan]

I just had this vision of being on my island. You know, the stars are, you know, it's beautiful tonight.

[Bill Maher]

You know what I mean?

[Billy Corgan]

You turn to your loved one. Here we are on the island and you're like, what's that boat approaching, you know, with the pirates? I don't know. You know, and we're all going to die because somebody's going to come on my, my island.

[Bill Maher]

Where you would have been the sole resident of the island.

[Billy Corgan]

Yes, that was the attraction.

[Bill Maher]

So there would be no. Well, but then there's no police department.

[Billy Corgan]

That's my point. There's no, it's all, it's all good on the island until somebody shows up like, like, like, like Max Keaty and Kate Fear.

[Bill Maher]

You know, there's no, there's no hospital.

[Billy Corgan]

You know, first you hire him to take care of the island, and next thing you know, your dog disappears. And.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, now that's the thing, you know, you think you're just getting away with 5 million, but then it's just the expenses have just begun and the remodeling. Oh, I mean, that south beach area, that has all the driftwood. I mean, somebody's gonna have.

[Billy Corgan]

See, now you're following my flow here.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

Okay, so I'm staying, Bill.

[Bill Maher]

All right. I'm glad you are. You're always such a treat to talk to. You're such a fun guy to talk to. So good luck. The podcast, tell them all about it.

[Billy Corgan]

The Magnificent Others interview a lot of musicians, but also started interviewing actors. Thanks to you. You helped me start that and it's been a lot of fun. Usually about 75 to 90 minutes. Very deep dives. Like, like us. But you're funnier.

[Bill Maher]

Where's the band playing?

[Billy Corgan]

The band is. We're on our way to Asia tomorrow. First time in Japan. We sold out the Budokan 25 years apart. So going to play a sold out Budokan show in a couple days. Asia tour. First time in the future.

[Bill Maher]

In the old days, the rock bands would play the Budokan and the Japanese audience was like famously quiet. Like, not because they weren't enjoying, just because it was in the culture. Is that still the case?

[Billy Corgan]

No.

[Bill Maher]

Great.

[Billy Corgan]

No, it's like any other audience now, really. I mean, maybe a little quieter just because of the culture, but no. MTV and YouTube made. Every audience is the same now. Shout out to essentially.

[Bill Maher]

Good. That's so good.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, you noticed it. Like in Norway, it's a little quieter, but.

[Bill Maher]

But Japan, they're screaming and shouting.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, I mean, Japan's kind of weird in that they're sort of obsessed with the West.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Billy Corgan]

So they're kind of almost cheering because of what they've seen, you know, Essence. They adopted a different cultural take to a concert because of the influence of watching how an audience would act in the West. I don't think they had an organic moment. They sort of said, oh, we'll take that too, like a form of dress.

[Bill Maher]

I just remember, like, the old school bands like the Beatles playing there, and it was like, wow.

[Billy Corgan]

It was very unnerving.

[Bill Maher]

It was. I bet you it was.

[Billy Corgan]

I mean, I went to. We went when Nirvana was at their absolute peak, around 92 smells like teen. We went to see them play at a show and you could have heard a pin drop between songs. And this is when they were the biggest band in the world, Right? I mean, it was literally like deafening silence.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, how about that for a wrap?

[Billy Corgan]

We did all right for a sad news day.

[Bill Maher]

God, it was like I laughed, I cried.

[Billy Corgan]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Club Random is brought to you by Radioactive Media. If you're a business owner, you can either panic or you can try something that actually works. That would be audio marketing. Podcasts and radio now reach more people than social and digital combined. Yeah, and unlike social media, you're not competing with cat videos and your aunt's political rants. Text random to 5 11, 511 today. Message and data rates may apply.

[Billy Corgan]

And Doug Limu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music. Limu. Save yourself money today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save. We see that may have been too much feeling. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty.

[Bill Maher]

Liberty.

[Billy Corgan]

Liberty Savings. Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. Affiliates excludes Massachusetts. Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other.

[Bill Maher]

When Alyssa got a small water bottle.

[Billy Corgan]

Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug.

[Bill Maher]

When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping. Oh, come on. They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia trip planner to collaborate.

[Billy Corgan]

On all the details of their trip.

[Bill Maher]

Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool.

[Billy Corgan]

Whatever.

[Bill Maher]

You were made to outdo your holidays.

[Billy Corgan]

We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel.