Gus Van Sant | Club Random with Bill Maher

Summary

Podcast Summary: Club Random with Bill Maher – Gus Van Sant

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of Club Random, Bill Maher sits down with acclaimed filmmaker Gus Van Sant for an unfiltered, sprawling conversation. The two explore Van Sant’s career, his latest movie Dead Man’s Wire, the economics and realities of filmmaking, influential movies and cultural change, and the quirks of Hollywood. Their relaxed, often humorous banter offers a window into behind-the-scenes Hollywood, musings on art and life, and reflections on generational and societal shifts—from the era of the Beats to modern influencer culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gus Van Sant’s New Film & Independent Filmmaking

• Dead Man’s Wire: Van Sant’s latest film opens in LA and NYC to qualify for the Oscars—a wholly independent project, not a streaming release ([03:17–03:41]).
• Crowdfunding Production: Notably, the film had about 100 producers, each contributing ~$100,000, highlighting the shift from traditional big-budget funding to present-day crowd-sourcing in indie cinema ([03:41–03:56]).
  • “There was a 100 producers, so kind of a crowdfunding.” – Gus Van Sant [03:42]
• Money in Filmmaking: Both discuss how securing funding remains central at every level of movie production, regardless of industry changes ([04:00–04:12], [23:00–23:14]).

2. Generational and Cultural Shifts

• Childhood and The 1960s: Van Sant and Maher reminisce about coming of age in the ‘50s and ‘60s, with subtle generational differences, touching on the cultural impact of the Vietnam draft and how it affected young men ([05:56–08:17]).
  • “If you’re 16 in ’68, the number one worry you have was the draft.” – Bill Maher [08:10]
• Upbringing: Both describe the freedom and discipline of growing up in their respective eras vs. today’s more protective parenting styles ([41:31–42:47]).
• Classics and Nostalgia: Maher and Van Sant discuss their formative influences, from Mad Magazine and National Lampoon to the Beat Generation ([29:09–32:17]).

3. Show Business, Criticism, and Awards

• Comedy and SNL: The roots and evolution of sketch comedy/SNL, with Van Sant’s brushes with the early Lorne Michaels crowd, and Maher’s tales of stand-up and hustling in New York ([13:38–17:13]).
  • “Groove Tube…was just like Saturday Night Live, except it was a film before Saturday Night Live.” – Van Sant [13:58]
• Awards Cynicism: Extended riff on the artificiality of awards, the emotional manipulation of nominees, and the transactional nature of industry recognition ([83:41–86:19]).
  • “When I lose, I’m not an actor. So I’d just be like, ‘Fuck, let’s get out of here.’” – Maher [84:11]

4. Art, Movies, and Legacy

• The Role of Critics: Van Sant credits critics with “saving” his early career, with Maher praising To Die For and its satirical edge, noting how the film anticipated influencer culture ([20:23–22:25]).
  • “The critics are the ones that probably saved me.” – Gus Van Sant [20:23]
• Remaking & Revisiting the Past: Debate about remaking older films and the value (and pitfalls) of period pieces, including Van Sant’s shot-for-shot Psycho and why many studio remakes fail or succeed ([95:33–98:23]).
• Classics Reexamined: In-depth detour into why certain classics (Citizen Kane, Gone with the Wind, Sunset Boulevard) do or don’t “hold up” today ([43:22–47:50]).
  • “It’s a heavy lift to bring 1935 to 2025. It just is.” – Maher [46:35]

5. Hollywood Realities

• Money, Power, and the Dark Side of Industry: Discussion about lawsuits over movie profits, contract wrangling, and the ongoing “dog eat dog” nature of the business ([56:19–57:17]).
  • “It’s almost accepted that [studios are] just not going to give you the money they rightfully owe you.” – Maher [56:25]
• Directorial Authority: Van Sant shares what makes him “explode” on set and the director’s weird dance of discipline and emotional stewardship, referencing a story of throwing rocks at an actor on his first film to “prove commitment” ([38:01–41:14]).
  • “Some actors…need you to explode or else they’re not going to be happy. As soon as you explode, they’re like really happy.” – Van Sant [38:36]
• Mythic Hollywood: Stories about actors’ eccentricities, studio bosses, the cult of celebrity, misogynistic industry history, and the star-director dynamic ([99:14–101:56]).

6. Themes in Van Sant’s Work & Mortality

• Mortality: Maher notes the recurring presence of death and mortality in Van Sant's films (Drugstore Cowboy, My Own Private Idaho, Dead Man’s Wire). Van Sant sees death as an “intrinsically compelling story device”—not always by design but because he adapts stories with that focus ([60:31–61:09]).
  • “You do seem to think about death a lot in your pictures.” – Maher [60:31]
• Agnosticism and the Limits of Knowledge: Both adopt a skeptical, agnostic stance on religion and life’s ultimate questions ([58:43–59:44]).
  • “We aren’t smart enough ourselves to figure it out…” – Van Sant [58:54]
  • “Whatever you think it could be, it’s not going to be.” – Maher [59:13]

7. Society, Youth, and Cultural Anxiety

• Younger Generations: Concerns about the political and cultural beliefs of today’s youth, misinformation, and the inadequacy of institutions like schools and media ([63:36–65:40]).
  • “Young people on the left are kind of crazy. The young ones on the right are…dangerous. But there is a kookiness on the left.” – Maher [64:39]
• Awards and Identity: The current landscape of awards as more about “look at what good people we are,” rather than celebrated artistry ([81:42–82:10]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Indie Filmmaking & Money Woes

• “100 producers? Yeah, come on. Because I think each one put in like $100,000, added up to…10 million. It was all about the money.” — Gus Van Sant [03:49]
• “It’s always about getting the money.” — Bill Maher [04:12]

On Parenting & Directing

• “A director is kind of a daddy role…You have to be the dad.” — Gus Van Sant [41:23]
• “Discipline translates as love. And you have to be able to take your child’s wrath.” — Maher [41:35]

On Awards

• “When I lose, I’m not an actor. So I’d just be like, fuck, let’s get out of here. Cause that's what I would be saying.” — Maher [84:11]
• “It’s just somebody’s opinion.” — Maher [85:42]

On Hollywood “Making Of” Stories

• “Critics don’t matter. Stars matter. The fact that they like you, that’s what matters… There’s a million ways a movie can get fucked up.” — Maher [100:34]

On Aging and Technology

• “What they should have come up with…is what I always call the thin mask. When you’re 35, they take a mask of your face, and then when you're older, you wear the mask. You're always like, 35.” — Maher [24:13]

On the Industry’s Dark Realities

• “When there’s a guy who's like, super rich and you don't know what he does, he's a pimp.” — Maher, on Jeffrey Epstein [92:46]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic / Quote | |---------------|-------------------| | 03:17–03:41 | Dead Man’s Wire and Oscar qualification | | 03:41–03:56 | Crowdfunding productions—100 producers | | 20:23–22:25 | Van Sant credits critics for his success | | 41:31–42:47 | Director as “daddy,” discipline in art and family life | | 56:23–57:17 | Money wrangling and lawsuits in filmmaking | | 60:31–61:09 | Mortality as a recurring theme in Van Sant’s work | | 83:41–86:19 | Cynicism about awards and recognition | | 95:33–98:23 | The making of Psycho (remake), industry deals | | 99:14–101:56 | The star-director relationship and stories of misogyny in Old Hollywood |

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Final Thoughts

The episode is richly woven with stories, jokes, and honest insights about movies, comedy, and the business behind the glamour. Bill Maher’s irreverence is perfectly matched by Gus Van Sant’s quiet candor, making for a conversation that feels both like eavesdropping on old friends and getting a rare inside look at Hollywood’s mechanics. The episode covers a vast range—from poignant reflections on aging and legacy, to the messy realities behind art and commerce.

Van Sant leaves his next project open-ended, but Maher and the audience are left eagerly anticipating whatever comes next.

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Recommended Listening For:

• Fans of cinema and Hollywood history
• Those interested in the realities of show business and the creative process
• Listeners who appreciate thoughtful, deeply candid banter on art, culture, and generational change

Transcript

[Bill Maher]

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[Gus Van Sant]

The guys we don't like, they like. Yes. And the guys we do like. No, they wouldn't have done that.

[Bill Maher]

No, I'm not saying that.

[Gus Van Sant]

The contestants. The people up for the award.

[Bill Maher]

Nominees, you mean nominees. We're not content as. Gosh. For Christ's sake.

[Gus Van Sant]

Club Random.

[Bill Maher]

Great pleasure to meet you, sir. How are you?

[Gus Van Sant]

Good.

[Bill Maher]

You comfortable?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes, very.

[Bill Maher]

Are you comfortable doing Conversations. This is not an interview because I never prepare anything.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh, good. All right.

[Bill Maher]

It's just what I know about you, which is I'm a big admirer of your movies.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh, thanks.

[Bill Maher]

And so the latest one, liked it a lot. Dead Man's Wire. Are you excited about the upcoming Oscar season? And.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, it's coming today.

[Bill Maher]

What?

[Gus Van Sant]

Today is the first day that it plays in a theater.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, really?

[Gus Van Sant]

It plays in two theaters. One is in la, one in New York, I think to qualify for at least Oscars.

[Bill Maher]

And then it goes to streaming.

[Gus Van Sant]

No, it's not a. It's not a streaming project at all. It's a completely independent.

[Bill Maher]

That's rare these days.

[Gus Van Sant]

I don't know if you saw the end credits. There was a 100 producers, so kind of a crowdfunding.

[Bill Maher]

100 producers?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, come on. Because I think each one put in like $100,000 added up to.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I see, the money.

[Gus Van Sant]

$10 million. Yeah, the money. It was all about the money.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, every director of a certain age that I talked to in recent years, you know, some very big names like you, and it's always about getting the money.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, maybe it always.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, kind of. This is such a low budget that there were a lot of things that weren't like, you know, if you're. If you're. It's a hundred million dollar project. You know, it's. There's a lot of things that are about the money, but this was so low budget that there were a lot of things that were.

[Bill Maher]

What's your budget these days?

[Gus Van Sant]

Ours was 10 million. 10.8 million.

[Bill Maher]

So do you know how much Cleopatra cost? A million. A million?

[Gus Van Sant]

1 million.

[Bill Maher]

And they went, really?

[Gus Van Sant]

And that was a big deal.

[Bill Maher]

Well, it was 1962, so come on.

[Gus Van Sant]

But still, that was around. I was around.

[Bill Maher]

It is pretty funny that they went batshit about that number. Yeah. You know what a ticket for My Fair lady cost on Broadway? The best ticket in the house in 1956, the year I was born.

[Gus Van Sant]

No.

[Bill Maher]

$6.

[Gus Van Sant]

Wow. Those are the days. Well, but a car was like $1,500.

[Bill Maher]

That's the interesting thing. Somebody put out a great article recently pointing out that the poverty level, you know, what we call the. Below the poverty level is a certain thing where you qualify for government funding, food stamps and stuff. It's based on something like from the 50s where you have. It's like a third of your money goes to food. Back then it did, but now not nearly a third of people's money goes to food. Food Is cheap. But housing, college, medical, childcare, all that shit, you know, was way cheaper or didn't even exist. Yeah, my childcare. Yeah, we had childcare. It was called My mother.

[Gus Van Sant]

Same with. The same with us. Yeah, my family.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, you're from the Mike May. Born in the 50s, right. Grew up on the East Coast.

[Gus Van Sant]

52. I grew up. My family was from Kentucky part First six years were in Colorado. Denver, Colorado. A suburb.

[Bill Maher]

What was that like back then?

[Gus Van Sant]

It was very suburban, like new. Every. The new houses were, you know, whole section of the city.

[Bill Maher]

It was kind of a western city. I mean Denver is. I always found it fascinating. That whole state. It's what they call a purple state because, you know, it's sort of like. It's got like fucking hippies, you know, like there's a big ball.

[Gus Van Sant]

Neil Cassidy came from Denver. Neil Cassidy, one of the beats.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, sure, I remember with Ginsburg.

[Gus Van Sant]

Right. But he was from downtown Denver. Kerouac was from Massachusetts.

[Bill Maher]

But they were all in the same coven together, right?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. They met at Columbia in New York. And Neil was just driving through, you know, just like. And Alan was like, this guy is amazing. And introduced him.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. I feel like your early movies that made you famous. The Drugstore Cowboy and Private Idaho. That's sort of that milieu. It seems like you were very inspired by that when you were a kid.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I was. Wasn't really.

[Bill Maher]

See that's four years were different. That's just a little before I was like. When you were a young teenager, like that was a thing you would. As a smart 13 year old, that's something you would be interested in. Whereas in that era I was just into baseball cards.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, and didn't really. 1968, I'm 12. That's like a really. The first year I sort of became aware of the world outside of me. I was suddenly into music. Yeah, that's a big difference from baseball to music.

[Gus Van Sant]

So it's four years, basically. So I was 16 and 68.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Very different. And if you're 16 and 68, the number one worry you have was the draft.

[Gus Van Sant]

Is the draft which came up. And my number. By then they had a lottery. My number was four. But I had a student deferment. So I was a student.

[Bill Maher]

You and your fucking white privilege. How dare you even sit here and drink with me, you fascist. White privilege. Well, it actually was. I mean they overused that phrase. But back in that day it kind of was like you could. And not just that day. George Bush, famously the first. I mean the second George Bush famously was in the National Guard when he could have gone to Vietnam. And when he ran against John Kerry, he was always like, stop denigrating the Guard. And like. We're not denigrating the Guard. We're denigrating you for having your congressman father pull strings and let you in the Guard. Yes, because the Guard was. You know, it wasn't the. When he was prosecuting the war in Iraq, he sent a lot of National Guard. But when he was in the National Guard, they didn't go to Vietnam. No, because we had a draft.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Your background there, like, in a place that was this sort of cross currents, I feel like you get. I mean, Denver, Colorado, can be a redneck place.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. Well, we left when I was six and we traveled around. It's like Chicago for two years, San Francisco area for one year, and then Connecticut. So I was 10 when I got to Connecticut. So a lot of. I pretty much grew up in what you were saying. Darien, Connecticut.

[Bill Maher]

Darien. Oh, I know the area well.

[Gus Van Sant]

You do?

[Bill Maher]

Well, I was a pot. I was a pot dealer in college. I went from never smoking to dealing it in six months because it's certainly the best way to afford it. And my pot dealer. When I got out of college, I kept the. I started in college, but I kept the job because I had to. As a comedian, how am I gonna make a living? You know, like, you have to. Comedians are really great at, like, just figuring out ways to not work in the day and somehow survive. And that was my scam. Not a scam. I was an honest drug pot dealer. And I went to Westport, Connecticut.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh. To sell.

[Bill Maher]

To buy.

[Gus Van Sant]

To buy, to sell. There seemed to be, like, a lot of pot in the area.

[Bill Maher]

It was just lucky that there was this guy who I was introduced through a friend, and I think this guy's brother was in the mob, and he just got, like, tons of pot, and so the prices were great. He was just a sweet guy. I think he wanted people to come over and sit and smoke pot with him. You know, like drugs dealers do. Yeah, you have to, like, talk to the drug dealer for an hour.

[Gus Van Sant]

Right. And you become their friend. Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Bill Maher]

So I would go up there, you know, with my briefcase that my mother gave me for Christmas. Looked like a businessman's briefcase. Dressed like. You know, I was 22. It had shitty clothes. I must have stood out thinking my briefcase was going to make me look like a businessman. I'd have, like, a $99 coat from Macy's that I was wearing. But I go there and I would fill that briefcase up with a couple of pounds of pot, and that's my. And bring it back to the city. Take the train.

[Gus Van Sant]

So you grew up in New York City?

[Bill Maher]

No, I grew up in New Jersey, but then I was living in New York after college and moved into New York. Dirt poor, living in shitholes. You know, you gotta start somewhere. Were you poor ever?

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, just on my own, when I was just starting out, I was technically poor.

[Bill Maher]

It's great. It's great when it's not great when it's happening. It's great when you look back and go, yeah, you know. Cause I never went to war. And there's nothing like bravery, the bravery of the soldier, whoever else is brave. They say it about actors, you know, she's so brave. Oh, fuck. She put on a fake nose for a movie. Okay. That's not exactly D day, you know, you're brave. But I'm glad I had something that I can look back and go, wow, that was a trial to get through those 10 years where I really was, you know, poor, living in shitty places and worrying about every penny and scraping by. It makes everything after, don't you think? More.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. I was pretty much here in LA during that period.

[Bill Maher]

Why?

[Gus Van Sant]

Because you moved through after college? I went to college and my student deferment and. Yeah. Ended up here and got a job in Beverly Hills.

[Bill Maher]

But you came here because you wanted to be in show business or. Or you.

[Gus Van Sant]

Show business.

[Bill Maher]

You knew her right away.

[Gus Van Sant]

Filmmaking.

[Bill Maher]

I thought it.

[Gus Van Sant]

I thought of it as filmmaking. But now. Now I. Today I realize it's just show business, like entertainment.

[Bill Maher]

It's both.

[Gus Van Sant]

It's both. And I worked for a comedian, Ken Shapiro, and he lived on Summit Ridge Drive. He made a film called the Groove Tube.

[Bill Maher]

I know the GrooveTube with Richard Belzer.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Who I started with. I mean, he was my mentor.

[Gus Van Sant]

Right. So when I started, you were like, close.

[Bill Maher]

The Groove Tube. Of course. Yeah. That was a legendary underground movie. But I get. I mean, we're talking about early 70s, right?

[Gus Van Sant]

72. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And it was edgy comedy.

[Gus Van Sant]

It was just like Saturday Night Live, except it was a film before Saturday Night Live. Yeah. And Lorne Michaels worked for Ken as a screenwriter when he was pitching Saturday Night Live. And comedy did tend to have lots of different things, like spoofs. And in his case, he had the news and he had musical numbers and things like that.

[Bill Maher]

Can we still see the Groove too? Yeah, if we go.

[Gus Van Sant]

You can see it on YouTube. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

How ironic. Yeah, yeah. Cause it was almost forecasting that. Yeah. I remember Belzer. That was one of his big credits when I used to bring him on stage at Catch a Rising Star. He was starring in the Groove Tube and Chevy Chase. And you wrote on it?

[Gus Van Sant]

No, I thought I would write for him maybe, but I just became a production assistant and he had a lot of comedians come in. He had a Paramount deal. And when Lorne Michaels went from la. Lorne Michaels was writing one of the scripts called Ma Bell, which is about the phone. Phone freaks that were like cracking into the phone system and like calling the White House. And you know, they.

[Bill Maher]

You could do that then.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, you could do funny tricks with the phone. And the guy they were writing about was hacking into the phone system headquarters and having them send him like trucks and telephone poles and like, you know, computer chips that he would sell to the rival phone companies.

[Bill Maher]

Computer chips in 1970 or chips of.

[Gus Van Sant]

Whatever kinds of boards they had, you know, telegram chips, the circuit boards. And he sells those to Western Electric for big money. And he. So he was a millionaire at 16 as a phone. So they were writing that script which never was filmed. And Lorne Michaels got an okay to do at least one Saturday night that they were traveling and setting up Saturday Night Live. And he offered Ken to come with him to do it. And Ken had worked in New York TV for. Since he was a child. Since he was 10. He was on the.

[Bill Maher]

And he turned this down.

[Gus Van Sant]

He turned it down. He had he. As a. As a 10 year old he was on the Milton Burl Show.

[Bill Maher]

What a bad decision it was. It's like the guy, remember the guy who turned down the Beatles? He could have managed the Beatles just like that. I don't think these mop top groups are going anywhere in the industry. Frankie Avalon has a new hit record out that I think the kids are going to go crazy for. You know, they just. Sometimes you just totally get it wrong. Does he busy still rue the day.

[Gus Van Sant]

He died from cancer? But, oh well, he, he would watch Saturday Night Live. I would join him watching every week. And some of the bits were hangovers from their previous period when they were. They had a storefront comedy theater. And so he was always saying, I'm going to sue them for that, for that bit or that.

[Bill Maher]

And it's always the roughest when they. Because capitalism is just blood in tooth. It is as raw as it gets. They will fucking slit your throat. That's the nature of it. And great things do come out of it. It has provided more wealth and Taken more people out of poverty than anything. It's not even close. But it is tooth and claw. And if you have an idea, they will steal it if they can get away with it at all. Very brazenly. It's tough, like if you're an inventor, because you almost don't want to go for the patent, because they'll find out about it and do it, and they're a big company with lawyers, and they'll just take it and do it before your thing. It's for sure one of the rotten parts. But, I mean, after all, we are not communists.

[Gus Van Sant]

And maybe it feels good if somebody steals your stuff, it's worth stealing.

[Bill Maher]

That's a very charitable way to look at it, Gus. I am not as business.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, if they steal your idea, they're never gonna be able to do it like you would do it, so they steal the concept.

[Bill Maher]

That's true. That's true. When my show Politically Incorrect went on in 1993, there were a bunch of imitator shows. And I remember worrying about that. And my producer at the time, such a smart guy, and he said to me one day, he said, bill, we can't teach people here how to do it, like the writers. And it was like, this was a very new concept. We're trying to tell them how to do it, and they don't get it. You know, they did eventually, but. So you're right about that. But they also can just. It depends on the kind of idea, but yes.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, look at. In music, there's always these lawsuits about, you stole my song. That is my song, and you just put a tambourine on it or whatever. And sometimes I hear it, and sometimes I don't. I mean, Robin Thicke got sued for doing Marvin Gaye with Blurred Lines. I never heard the similarity. Yeah, and George Harrison famously got sued for My Sweet Lord from the Chiffons. He's so fine. I get that.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's definitely similar. But then that it was such a classic rock and roll song that it's just as almost.

[Bill Maher]

But until they had the lawsuit, it never. I knew the song he's so Fine, even though it's before my time. But it was an iconic song. But I never, when I was listening to My Sweet Lord, ever thought that. Once they said it, I heard it. To me, that's, you know. Come on, man. It's like in football now with, you know, the replays. It's like, the guy just made an amazing catch. Let him fucking have it. Do we have to go over this, like this a pruda film and like throw shit out because it's not perfect, you know. But you've done well with the critics. Don't you think they. I feel like you're somebody who probably has gotten generally great notices. Yeah, because it's great work.

[Gus Van Sant]

The critics are the ones that probably saved me.

[Bill Maher]

To Die for is To Die for.

[Gus Van Sant]

Awesome.

[Bill Maher]

One of my all time faves.

[Gus Van Sant]

Well, Buck Henry was.

[Bill Maher]

Buck Henry wrote it. I know he's good. And if kids don't know, he also wrote the Graduate just to give you an example of what his.

[Gus Van Sant]

I was just watching the Graduate and.

[Bill Maher]

Was on the first Saturday Night Live.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh, the first one.

[Bill Maher]

Well, maybe the second. He was one of the first hosts.

[Gus Van Sant]

He loved it.

[Bill Maher]

He's the one who was in the sketch, the famous samurai sketch that John Belushi did.

[Gus Van Sant]

Right?

[Bill Maher]

Belushi is samurai.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's awesome.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, isn't that great? Is he still with us?

[Gus Van Sant]

No, he's not. He's not with us. But he. Yeah, I was watching the group the Graduate and saw, you know, like this the style of comedy that was in To Die For. You could see his like imprint that film.

[Bill Maher]

What year is that film?

[Gus Van Sant]

67.

[Bill Maher]

No, to die for.

[Gus Van Sant]

To die for. 90.

[Bill Maher]

90.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, 90.

[Bill Maher]

The 90s though. Wow.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's 94, I think.

[Bill Maher]

Holy fuck. I would not have guessed that long ago because it is. Wow. Then it's even more ahead of its time because I mean that media hungry character, I feel like that only got more relevant. Not that it didn't exist then obviously enough for you to do a great satire with it, but evermore. I mean, in the age of influencers, I mean that's exactly what her mentality is, wouldn't you say?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes, exactly. You should redo it before any of that happened. Yeah, which I guess it was sort of happening on cable. Cause cable allowed a lot of first timers to do the weather and to start out. So they kind of had their version of TikTok on cable. But yeah, now they're everywhere.

[Bill Maher]

So what about redoing it? Gus, what do you think? We used Sabrina Carpenter, Nicole Kid Monroe and she's married to Nick Fuentes.

[Gus Van Sant]

Great, let's do it. Do you have any sources of money to do?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. What about crowdsourcing? I mean that's what we've been doing.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, no, literally, like, I mean the hundred producers really is like a crowdsource type thing.

[Bill Maher]

So do you have to beg every single one of them?

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean noor helped us like find like, you know, probably 20 of them.

[Bill Maher]

Right.

[Gus Van Sant]

Cause she was mixing around and, like. And making it sound like a really good, fun thing.

[Bill Maher]

That's perhaps the most essential part of the, you know, operation.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

You know, sometimes people say, you know, who's the most essential part of your operation? And I say, well, I'm about to be 70. It's the makeup girl. And they laugh. I'm like, I'm not kidding. Yeah, it's the makeup girl. Okay. Everything else, I have great help and great people, but I could do on my own like this. I'm just doing this. Not that it's. Whatever it is, but makeup. No, no, no, no. That's. We need the good makeup girl and the good lighting and, you know, I mean, you know, it's time to go, and you can't even look good with lighting and makeup. That there's a time to get off the stage. And hopefully AI will solve that. I think it will. I've been saying for camera for decades that what they should have come up with, and maybe they will, is what I always call the thin mask. When you're 35, they take a mask of your face, and then when you're older, you wear the mask. You're always like, 35. Wow. And it just fits on, and it's just perfect. But it just. It's. And then you have the best of both worlds. You have the good brain that you get when you're older, the one that doesn't make all those unforced errors of your youth when you're fucking stupid, especially as a man. And you still look like you're 35. I mean, can you imagine what a baller you could be then?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, that'd be amazing. People are trying it just surgically, but.

[Bill Maher]

But that.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, it's hard to make it work.

[Bill Maher]

It's hard to make it work. I mean, I've seen it work. I think we all have. Like, wow, that's very good. I mean, certainly Kris Jenner now is lauded. Like, she's the Rosa Parks of plastic surgery. You know, she somehow found this. This genius doctor, and so she. Okay. And she wears it proudly, and it's a great. I mean, you know, it's as good a job as they can do. And a few other people. It's worked for other people. It settles after about, you know, right away, it looks terrible. But five years in, you're like, okay. But then you still gotta. You know, for five years, you're a man, and you look like a Chinese schoolgirl.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, how is that good? And then okay, great. Five years down the road. You know, it's the same with tits, you know, not that you'd know.

[Gus Van Sant]

I wouldn't know that.

[Bill Maher]

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[Gus Van Sant]

Never.

[Bill Maher]

Never was interested. Not even you?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I was mildly interested, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Mildly, yes. When. When did you realize tits were not for you?

[Gus Van Sant]

Maybe Playboy magazine. I was like.

[Bill Maher]

Like, this isn't.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I was sort of thinking, I'm supposed to. Think I'm supposed to really play girl. Playgirl, which was a little after my time, I think.

[Bill Maher]

My first, the very first press I ever got was Playgirl magazine. I was interviewed in Playgirl. I was thrilled that a magazine wanted to talk to me. And when it came out, you know, there's a table of contents page at the beginning of a magazine. So between each story they had a little picture from the story. So there's my face from my interview, and right above me was the story about naked firemen. And there's a guy and his dick is like coming right down almost into my picture. And I still have it and I'm still very proud of it.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's cool.

[Bill Maher]

Both the picture and the dig, I never saw.

[Gus Van Sant]

I wasn't really aware of Playgirl for I was reading, I guess, National Lampoon or something like that.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, that was my bible.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. That was amazing, right?

[Bill Maher]

I mean, when I was younger, it was Mad magazine.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, me too. Which I had a subscription.

[Bill Maher]

And I had a subscription. I still have the covers. There's some covers here. There's one on the wall somewhere around here of a Mad magazine. Like it was from the 60s. And of course they're like sort of making fun of the hippies. That was a new thing, you know. But also.

[Gus Van Sant]

And the Blockbuster movies. Blockbuster. They were.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, yes.

[Gus Van Sant]

You know, do the cartoons about Mutiny on the.

[Bill Maher]

Sure.

[Gus Van Sant]

Mutiny on the bouncy, as they called it, which were hilarious.

[Bill Maher]

And the fold in. Remember the Met fold in. Yeah, in the back. But it was when I got to be the age where Lampoon came out, it was like perfect timing because I was ready to graduate from mad, which, all respect to Mad, but it was not. Lampoon was definitely a step up of sophistication. Wise and gutsy.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, yeah, it was fantastic.

[Bill Maher]

And not liberal, by the way. It took a. Because it was. Because really, if you look at something dispassionately with the most jaundiced eye you're gonna find, as I do now. A lot of problems with liberalism, even though I think they were basically liberal, and I am, too. But they didn't shy away from making fun of hippies and all that kind of stuff that came along right when I needed that in my comedic.

[Gus Van Sant]

PJ o'. Rourke.

[Bill Maher]

PJ o', Rourke, I always say.

[Gus Van Sant]

And John Hughes. His pieces were very Samuel Beckett.

[Bill Maher]

But PJ then became the editor, the main guy. And I still have those issues. I mean, the amount of really funny stuff they packed in was impressive. And he's also somebody whose DNA goes into Saturday Night Live. Because Lampoon was also sourcing that.

[Gus Van Sant]

They had their plays. Woodstock lemmings.

[Bill Maher]

Yes. They also had, like, National Lampoon, Off Broadway. Yeah, I have the album.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh, yeah, the album.

[Bill Maher]

Bill Murray is singing on it.

[Gus Van Sant]

Chris Guest. Yeah, with some.

[Bill Maher]

And Michael o', Dono, I think, was involved with that. And so a lot of that just came straight through. And I was talking to Dana Carvey and David Spade. I was just saying, like, I have my issues with Lorne Michaels, but you cannot deny the. Just the overwhelming influence that one Factory hat on. I mean, the way it pipelined, like, almost all of our comedy movie people, from Eddie Murphy to Bill Murray and Will Ferrell and Kristen Wiig and Tina Fey. I mean, everybody, you know, like, for such a long time.

[Gus Van Sant]

That is still today.

[Bill Maher]

Still today, sure.

[Gus Van Sant]

Hanging in there.

[Bill Maher]

And probably after he goes, the show still will be doing that. The show will survive.

[Gus Van Sant]

It'll probably crash right after he goes, you think because of. I'm. I'm assuming maybe unless somebody learns his. His nature somehow. Lauren himself seems to hold it all together, even through the thick and thin.

[Bill Maher]

And you don't think anyone else can do that?

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, I just think it's one of those magic things that, like, when the actual guy goes, they might feel like, why are we doing this? And you have to have that guy. That's because I want to do it.

[Bill Maher]

I don't think so. Because I think Lorne has anointed people like Tina Fey or Colin Jost, who does the Weeknd. They've been around a long time. They know his ways. They're respected. It kind of make. Succession does kind of make sense.

[Gus Van Sant]

I'll make a bet.

[Bill Maher]

Okay, great.

[Gus Van Sant]

Hundred dollars.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, fantastic.

[Gus Van Sant]

How many years?

[Bill Maher]

Well, you know, Gus, we're going to be around for a very long time. So let's say in 25 years.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's too long.

[Bill Maher]

When AI has his note. Okay, let's Say, well, I don't know. It depends on when he quits. He may never quit.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's true.

[Bill Maher]

Let's say two years from when he quits.

[Gus Van Sant]

Okay, gotcha. 100.

[Bill Maher]

Which. You're worth nothing then it won't be worth the paper it's printed on. We'll be living in the Weimar Republic.

[Gus Van Sant]

Gus, that's a $6 no.

[Bill Maher]

I think the key to that show is casting the way they are able to always replenish the well, not. They don't go eight for eight. Nobody's terrible. But they just. They do find stars, people who. And you go, well, you're right. You, you know, whoever had that eye and said, oh, this, you know, guy, this woman is gonna be. And they. There's always people who you are like, oh, wow, What a Kate McKinnon, you know, came along and all the. And you're like, wow, just amazing. The way they do that. That is what will make that show live or die, I think more than anything else. Will they be able to. Was he the one who actually did that or was there somebody under. I don't know the answer to that question. But if there's somebody else who was doing it for him or with him or could do it without him, the show will go on. If not, I don't think it will.

[Gus Van Sant]

I feel it's probably him or his wife.

[Bill Maher]

I think he has a great sense of like people who are funny but also have a likability. You know, Bill Hader, I mean, I could go on with all the people who really came out and were just a joy to watch.

[Gus Van Sant]

And Blushy almost. Oh, was almost fired.

[Bill Maher]

Right? The first crew, you know, I mean, I don't know what was with that first crew because like Bill Murray and Chevy Chase, both genius comics in their own right, but both have terrible reputations. Just like you do not want to be on a set with this asshole. And you know, I don't. That's so odd that both of them would be on the same show at the same time and then become that person. I don't know why, but, you know, I'm sure you've been on your share of sets with people who are, you know, I mean, don't get along. I mean, look, I was on acting sets for about 10 years in the 80s when all US young comics came out and were on sitcoms and we thought that's the way to get ahead silly movies. And I don't remember any set where there wasn't some blow up or some people are so on such A hair trigger, you know, that's their instrument. I don't have to tell you about their instrument because I'm sure you hear about it from them all the time. And it's true, you know, they want to tap into an emotional thing. A lot of times they keep themselves unhappy. That's why you never want to go out with an actress, you know, you don't want her doing Sophie's Choice and coming home with that shit, you know, it's not gonna be. Honey, I can't get in the mood tonight. I had to cut a baby in half. No, but a set is sort of like a boiling pit anyway. It's always ready to. I feel like it's always ready to explode.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And a little thing like you're in my eye line and then you.

[Gus Van Sant]

I don't really experience that when I'm shooting.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, good.

[Gus Van Sant]

Maybe because. I don't know why. I mean, I have.

[Bill Maher]

Because you're nice.

[Gus Van Sant]

I have exploded on a set. But.

[Bill Maher]

You have.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, but I've never seen.

[Bill Maher]

No, I've never talked to you before and you're a delight to talk to, but I. You just don't. I can't see you exploding. I didn't explode.

[Gus Van Sant]

I can't explode.

[Bill Maher]

Really.

[Gus Van Sant]

Well, when it really gets. I guess.

[Bill Maher]

And what would make you explode?

[Gus Van Sant]

Maybe when the actors are.

[Bill Maher]

Unprepared.

[Gus Van Sant]

No, not like, nothing like that.

[Bill Maher]

Arrogant.

[Gus Van Sant]

Or if they just. They. There are certain actors that I've had a couple times, very rarely would that need you to explode or else they're not going to be happy.

[Bill Maher]

Wow.

[Gus Van Sant]

So they. They keep misbehaving just so you explode. And as soon as you explode, they're like really happy. And so I go, oh, that was it.

[Bill Maher]

Which one was who?

[Gus Van Sant]

I'm not gonna say.

[Bill Maher]

Come on.

[Gus Van Sant]

Some of the early ones that you wouldn't know.

[Bill Maher]

Matt Dillon.

[Gus Van Sant]

No, no, no. Not. Not films that you would have seen. Oh, well, Malinoche, you know, this Malinoce was my first film.

[Bill Maher]

No.

[Gus Van Sant]

So there was a lead actor, you know, it was a very low budget film. It was a twenty thousand dollar film. So the lead actor, it's on Criterion. You can see it. It's a film that exists. But he, Tim Streeter, he. He was from the theater and his friends had told him, look, you know, this film, he's never. The filmmaker is never going to finish it. He's just wasting your time. You, me, this film. The filmmaker.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

And so he acted like that for, you know, a week or something like that, until finally I was. He was Trying to like make a car, like hit a mark, which is always really hard. And I was saying, no, just line it up with the rock that's next to the tire. You know, that kind of stuff. Until finally I was throwing rocks at his head because he was complaining and it was from the day of before and the day before. The day before.

[Bill Maher]

Throwing rocks at his head.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, through the open window of the. Of the car and didn't hit him. My aim wasn't good. And he had to get out.

[Bill Maher]

Life could have taken a different.

[Gus Van Sant]

He had to get out and run away. Cuz I was still throwing the rocks. And then I was like, oh, my God, now my actor is going to quit. And I found him in an orchard. I sort of doubled around, so I would like not. I would corral him. And I stopped him and I said, I'm so, so sorry. And he was like, no, it's great, it's fine, it's great. And I was like, you're kidding. You're happy now? He's like, yeah, yeah. I was like, all right, okay.

[Bill Maher]

What a gangster you are. We didn't know all this side of you.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, you would have probably done the same thing.

[Bill Maher]

Are you also telling me that you've seen this syndrome again?

[Gus Van Sant]

Mm.

[Bill Maher]

Fuck. What? Where? What?

[Gus Van Sant]

But it's usually the actors that I think they need that a certain just.

[Bill Maher]

But what is the psychological provenance of that? I've never heard of such.

[Gus Van Sant]

They have to see the director is committed.

[Bill Maher]

Committed.

[Gus Van Sant]

You know what I mean?

[Bill Maher]

So it's commitment issues.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. So I don't feel like I'm committed. Like when I'm directing, is it always.

[Bill Maher]

Men who do it or women too?

[Gus Van Sant]

So far, maybe not. Maybe not. I can't remember before we even do that, but yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Well, I guess a director is kind of a daddy role.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, you have to be the dad.

[Bill Maher]

You're the dad. I'm not a dad.

[Gus Van Sant]

Not a very good dad.

[Bill Maher]

And discipline is love. One reason kids are so fucked up today is because we forgot that very essential part of human nature to a child. Discipline. Not over discipline, not beating them and shit, but discipline translates as love. And you have to be able to take your child's wrath because they will be mad at you and just take it. Modern parents are such pussies that they can't handle that they can't handle their kid being mad at them. So they're constantly coddling them and mollifying them and kissing their ass and pretending they're just shorter adults whose opinions are just as valid it's certainly worthy of debate. And they're not. They're stupid. They're like dogs. They're children. To me, that's like the provenance of all our cultural slide is that parents just fucked up their kids. And by the way, it fucked up their own life. Cause when you spoil your kid now, your life is fucked because you're their chauffeur. You're just always over them. You have no free time. They come first, always. My parents weren't like that. I doubt if yours were in that era. Right. Were you free range? No.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, there was discipline, right? Yeah. Like, Orson Welles used to fire somebody on the first day in front of everybody. So it was the script person or the dp. So he would fire them loudly.

[Bill Maher]

Just scared the shit out of them.

[Gus Van Sant]

So everyone would see and then they would continue.

[Bill Maher]

That's kind of brilliant. Yeah. I mean, not good for the brilliant. But again, you know, capitalism. I mean, what's more important that a script girl got her feelings hurt. I feel bad. Or. But we have Citizen Kane now.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Or. What do you think of Citizen Kane? I watch it, like, every five years, hoping to find. Not that it's bad, it's good, but hoping to find the thing in it that has always landed in it, like the number one greatest of all time.

[Gus Van Sant]

And you don't see it.

[Bill Maher]

I don't see it. Do you?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, but I saw it when I was.

[Bill Maher]

No, do you see the thing that makes it that great? You do. Tell me when you do.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I do. Because. But I started by watching it when I was 14 in English class. So we were, you know, watching a movie in English class, which is kind of like goofing off. You know, you get to see a movie.

[Bill Maher]

We didn't do it in your class.

[Gus Van Sant]

I know. It was a progressive class, and I think it was simple enough. Like the. You know, the idea that there was this word that he said when he died, that this. You're gonna spend the whole movie looking for the secret and that nobody finds it. But you see the spoiler alert. It slid at the end, and you're like, oh, it's like his childhood was. You know, it's answered. The question is answered. But only, you know, the audience had a lot of charm to it, and as a kid.

[Bill Maher]

No, that's definitely a great film.

[Gus Van Sant]

And then all the. All the things in between, the characterizations and him playing at 25 years old, playing, like, all these different ages, and.

[Bill Maher]

Also the Romana Clay that it's really William Randolph Hearst.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. Plus the reality behind. Yeah, exactly. That's amazing.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, some of it is taken right from Hearst's biography. You know, you give me the. I'll give you the war if you give me whatever he said Rosebud was.

[Gus Van Sant]

Secretly on the DL, you know, on the down low.

[Bill Maher]

Who was?

[Gus Van Sant]

Well, the name Rosebud was the name of his lover's vagina. That he had a pet name.

[Bill Maher]

Orson Welles.

[Gus Van Sant]

No, no. Randolph Hearst.

[Bill Maher]

Randolph Hearst.

[Gus Van Sant]

So it's just a little jab which.

[Bill Maher]

The one who's portrayed in the movie. The movie, yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

Marion Davies.

[Bill Maher]

Marion Davies, yeah. And she wasn't that. I mean, the way they had her in the movie, she wasn't like the greatest piece of ass of all time. What was it that, like, enraptured him to her so much?

[Gus Van Sant]

Well, it was. Rosebud was her pussy.

[Bill Maher]

She had, like, the magic pussy some chicks to.

[Gus Van Sant]

Which is within the movie and within the jibe to Hurst, who is like, you know, our Elon Musk or something.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

It just seemed so. Or Rupert Murray Subversive at 9 years old. I didn't know that part of it. Or at 14 years old.

[Bill Maher]

But you quickly rejected it.

[Gus Van Sant]

But I think that people now, like younger filmmakers, can't quite get. It's slipping off the list of number one pictures like our age could appreciate 30s movies, late 30s movies. And the kids now are like, just. Nah. It's like.

[Bill Maher]

But I watch old movies frequently and some of them do not hold up.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's true.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, I was recently watching both what's Up, Doc? Which was a remake of Bringing Up Baby, and then watched. Tried to watch Bringing Up Baby. I've said it before, but it's a heavy lift to bring 1935 to 2025. It just is. It's a century almost. And the remake in 72 or whatever with Peter Bogdanovich did it with Streisand and Ryan o' Neill is fantastic.

[Gus Van Sant]

It's fantastic.

[Bill Maher]

And. Yeah, and that's already. That's a 72. That's a very old movie, but not as old. And. And. And still sings with contemporary music. The other one, you know, it was just too. Too ancient. But some of them, like Sunset Boulevard totally holds up.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Crackling dialogue. Sinister. Billy Wilder. Yeah, yeah. Billy Wilder really had it. You know, you can't ever get me off Gone with the Wind.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Bill Maher]

You don't like it.

[Gus Van Sant]

It's one of those movies that I. Well, I haven't seen it recently, so maybe I have to see it again, see whether it holds up. It's, it's. It has really good things about it that I like.

[Bill Maher]

Wasn't Scarlet a kind of a gay icon?

[Gus Van Sant]

No, I don't think so.

[Bill Maher]

Scarlett o'? Hara. I think so.

[Gus Van Sant]

I think Judy Garland.

[Bill Maher]

Judy Garland we know. And Cher and Strike.

[Gus Van Sant]

Not the gay world I traveled in.

[Bill Maher]

Really? I thought she was because, you know, she was like Survivor, you know, like, I will never starve again.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's true. She should be.

[Bill Maher]

She should be. Research it. I think, you see, I think she kind of was.

[Gus Van Sant]

There's so many strong, like female leads that are gay icons always, you know, like for every.

[Bill Maher]

She's the perfect one, though.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, well, she probably is.

[Bill Maher]

Although, you know, maybe it's cause she's kind of a cunt. Like the movie really doesn't make sense because she pines for the stiff. That Ashley Wilkes, who's like about as sexy as Oatmeal Ashley, as someone once said of Doris Day.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, that's true.

[Bill Maher]

And she's married to the bad boy. She should be married to the stiff and pining for the bad boy. That makes sense.

[Gus Van Sant]

Maybe that's why I didn't like it that much as much.

[Bill Maher]

But it just shows charisma and smart, snappy dialogue of very talented, good looking, charismatic, can make up for a lot. There's lots of movies that make no sense. Casablanca makes no sense.

[Gus Van Sant]

Frankly, I don't give a damn.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

Which isn't as snappy today, but.

[Bill Maher]

Well, in 1939 it was unbelievable. Yeah, it was. They had to put it as the last line in the movie, the word damn, because otherwise people would have walked out. So they put it at the very end when they're walking out anyway. Which was kind of so fucking gangster doing that like, okay, we're gonna get this in. But yeah. Can you imagine how again to ask a movie from 1935 to be relevant or interesting today when we're talking about an era when the word damn was so outrageous that people would leave a theater? That's a big gap.

[Gus Van Sant]

It is.

[Bill Maher]

To try to bridge. Did you ever do a period piece?

[Gus Van Sant]

No. Let's see. I think I was always stuck in the 70s. Most of the films were in the 70s.

[Bill Maher]

I guess that's a lot more.

[Gus Van Sant]

Even the Dead Man's wire. That's the 70s.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Gus Van Sant]

But you know, I never, you know, I haven't ever done a period piece and I wonder if I ever will. Probably at this point I won't.

[Bill Maher]

But so yeah, Dead Man's Wire is what year? Because you could tell by the 77. 77. So I was 21, I was at Cornell. I was not happy, but I didn't think about putting a shotgun to my head. But I don't remember that story. See, when.

[Gus Van Sant]

Me neither. I think that it was probably.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, you don't remember it at the time?

[Gus Van Sant]

No.

[Bill Maher]

Somebody brought this to you and I.

[Gus Van Sant]

Think if you were reading, scouring the papers, it would be in the papers.

[Bill Maher]

But today it would be the most viral thing in the world. A guy with a shotgun like attached to his head because another guy, the first thing I thought of was Luigi Mangioni.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Which is so relevant today. I mean, I hope your movie company is advertising it that way because kind of they should because like this was Luigi before Luigi. This is a guy fucked over by the system and money and the people with the. Who have the money. And again, capitalism, it's not an untrue criticism. Capitalism does fuck people. It's the, it's the nature of it.

[Gus Van Sant]

And the mortgage, I mean real estate in general is, you know, favored by the government because it's progress.

[Bill Maher]

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[Bill Maher]

Nicotine is an addictive chemical all right, tis the season. Office parties, family gatherings, the annual who spiked the eggnog mystery. And yeah, I enjoy a drink like any responsible adult, wink wink trying to survive December. But luckily for us, we now have Zbiotics to help us power through the next day. Or in my case, a session of Club Random. Zbiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it when you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a build up of this byproduct, not dehydration, that is to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Our Club Random producers tried Zbiotics before our last team dinner and the next morning everybody felt great. It's now our go to when we need to have a productive next day. Thank God. Not that often, so make the most of every toast this holiday season. Just don't forget to bring Pre Alcohol along for the ride. Go to ZBiotics.com random to learn more and get 15% off when you first order. When you use code random at checkout, Zebiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee. Remember to head to ZBiotics.com random and use the code random at checkout for 15% off. Building look at just in our business, how many people have had to get the money the studio owed them, sue them. Like there's almost a audit them and.

[Gus Van Sant]

Sue and sue if you want.

[Bill Maher]

You know, it's almost like accepted that they're just not going to give you the money they rightfully owe you. They're going to have accountants and fucking asshole lawyers pretend that have you audited.

[Gus Van Sant]

And actually had cash come just pouring out or sued.

[Bill Maher]

No, cuz I'm not in your business. I'm. I'm a salaried employee mostly, you know, but in the movie business you can have points and such, such, and, and so even if the movie's a big hit, they will find a way to say, well it wasn't, you know, we, we had to spend money on whatever it is, they're lying. And then you sue them and then you get your money. But that's again the nature of our system.

[Gus Van Sant]

It's just like, yeah, the movie business.

[Bill Maher]

It'S dog eat dog. It's kind of a recapitulation of nature, you know, I mean if I was God in inventing the universe and life, I don't think I'd have the system be, well, everything's trying to kill each other. That's the nature of it. When I eat meat and I am a PETA person, but when I do, I don't feel that bad because it's not like I'm doing something to an animal that they don't do to each other. But why design a system where like everything is always trying to kill each other if you're starting from scratch? You know why? The Hunger Games. For everything out there, the hawk is trying to eat the mouse and the mouse is trying to eat the lizard and the lizard is trying to eat the.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, the way it happens, if you.

[Bill Maher]

Just let it go, it's the worst system. Yeah, it's just why it's cruel.

[Gus Van Sant]

But even the little. If you look at single cell organisms, they're trying to eat each other. They are like, yeah, the little amoebas. Yeah, they're like biting and like consuming each other.

[Bill Maher]

Really? I didn't think. I guess. How does it get nutrients?

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean maybe there's other ways but like.

[Bill Maher]

So you're saying amoeba, if they're cannibals, they'll eat, they're eat their own son in certain cases.

[Gus Van Sant]

I don't think. I don't know if every single cell organisms are cannibals, but certainly some of them are.

[Bill Maher]

Now what's your religious take? If that's not too personal. I mean, do you Have a religion. Are you an atheist? Agnostic. Are you spiritual?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I have a take.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, I might as well. My take is that we aren't smart enough ourselves to figure it out, to know what it is.

[Bill Maher]

It's exactly.

[Gus Van Sant]

Makes sense. Everybody's trying to figure it out, but you never. You don't. Because as soon as you die, it's like, oh, that's what's going on.

[Bill Maher]

Whatever you think it could be, it's not going to be.

[Gus Van Sant]

This is not going to be us.

[Bill Maher]

Could not agree more. I say it all the time that religious people have this imagination, this thought in their head that there's. I picture a wall, and on the other side of the wall is the answer to what happens when you die. If they just jump a little higher, they'll see over the wall, but they don't realize that the wall is a million miles high.

[Gus Van Sant]

I feel like I am an agnostic. I think that there is something.

[Bill Maher]

It's the same thing as an atheist. It is.

[Gus Van Sant]

It's just very similar.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, well, atheists don't.

[Gus Van Sant]

But atheists are saying there isn't anything.

[Bill Maher]

No, atheists, not atheists. It's just as Dawkins says, atheism just means atheism. It's just, you are theists, you believe in gods. We don't. It doesn't mean without theism, we're saying, we know. We're just saying we don't do that. And he always says, you know, in ancient times, they believed in hundreds of gods, and then it got down to one, and we just took away that last one. Right, but. But a lot of your stuff is about mortality. I mean, you do seem to think, including this last one is really, again, a guy with a shotgun to his head. It's like you do seem to think about death a lot in your pictures. No.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Am I wrong about that?

[Gus Van Sant]

I do. I think as a convention, as a, you know, conflict that the characters have to face, it's compelling as a story device. And it's also, I think, compelling in life, you know, like in general. But. So that's probably why I don't think it's by design either. I think I've adapted a lot of pieces that are by people that are thinking about death. Not necessarily myself.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, I was gonna say, the older we get, the more it's on our mind. But then I realized, no, wait a second. I thought about death more and a lot in a much more serious way. When I was 19, when I was first off to college, and my Life sucked and no girls. No, it was cold, you know, new place, no friends. Really. It was just bleak. And of course, if I could have gotten laid once, I would have stopped being suicidal. But I mean, death was on my mind in a way it hasn't been since. And that's young, so it kind of is never not on your mind.

[Gus Van Sant]

Like the Woody Allen movie where the seven year old is upset and they ask him why and he says the universe is expanding. He says, don't talk about stuff like that. Mom gets mad at him.

[Bill Maher]

It's him as a 7 year old. Yeah, I think that's in radio days. Yeah, he was here recently. Really? Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

Cool.

[Bill Maher]

What a. What a.

[Gus Van Sant]

It's funny.

[Bill Maher]

Prolific, yo. So funny. I mean, you ever listen to those early albums? Really funny. Yeah. I mean, do you remember when he came on the scene? Because you would have been around that age. That would be.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I mean, he was. He was really popular in the 60s.

[Bill Maher]

Oh yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

He represented like hippie culture, kind of.

[Bill Maher]

There was three artists who came about almost at the exact same time, all of whom Streisand, Bob Dylan and Woody Allen. All of whom were. I don't think people can imagine. Yeah, you can. Taylor Swift certainly was on that level. But like really took over pop culture and changed it. And couple of years after that, Muhammad Ali in sports, I don't know if people know. I mean, again, this is a little before my time to understand it while it was happening, but soon after I was. It wasn't that long ago that I could. Oh, wow, that was so cool. And Muhammad Ali was cool to me. And it was a very fervent time for like. And Kennedy in office was a very big breath of fresh air.

[Gus Van Sant]

The youngsters were taking over. Kennedy being young, Youngish.

[Bill Maher]

Yes, but I feel like took over and made it better. Maybe that's my nostalgia. Whereas I don't know if I would trust the young people to take over today. I mean, I don't know if I.

[Gus Van Sant]

Can and they will anyway.

[Bill Maher]

Well, they probably have already. I mean, you know, it's inevitable. But they have some just really screwy ideas. I mean, when I see them marching with the Kefayas for Hamas and like, wow, you somehow found your way to championing the most oppressive people in the world in the name of how much you hate oppression and like, I don't know if I can trust that mind that learned everything on TikTok to take over. And it's one reason why, by the way, the Democrats get accused of being geriatric. Nancy Pelosi and Biden and. Yeah, they are. And part of it is because they don't trust their own young people. The young people on the left are kind of crazy. The young ones on the right are just like. I mean, they're goofballs. They're bros, you know, like, love the macho shit, like blowing up boats. But yeah, they're dangerous. But there is a kookiness on the left.

[Gus Van Sant]

What is. What are like mangione like that?

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. I mean, they think communism is worth another try because again, they didn't learn anything in school. The schools failed them, stopped teaching them shit. Whatever they get through TikTok is filtered through somebody's agenda. Maybe China, maybe, you know, just some woke people. Maybe on other sites like Trump's Truth Social. It's the other way. It's just MAGA things. Nobody's getting the full story. So, you know, I don't. What's swimming around in their brain was not shaped by the school system dispassionately as it was in our day. I mean, I don't remember any politics in school. They were not indoctrinating me into anything at any level, including at Cornell. Just teaching me, just educating me.

[Gus Van Sant]

What about the other students, though? Weren't they opposed to the war and getting drowned?

[Bill Maher]

You know, that's the interesting. You say. That's the one moment I remember where there was a little politics. There was at a history teacher, Mr. Jaeger, or Jaeger, I forget. But we kind of knew he was kind of like a Bill O'Reilly, you know, kind of. That's how I think of him, you know, conservative and. But again, it was very. It was not overt. And there was a. There was a mass demonstration or something against the Vietnam War in 1969. And I think we were talking about it in class, which we didn't used to do, but it somehow it came up and we could tell he cast a dim view of protesting what the government was doing in Vietnam. But that's about the only.

[Gus Van Sant]

What about McCarthy? McCarthyism?

[Bill Maher]

Joseph McCarthy.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, well, that's. And Roy Cohn.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, that's way before my time.

[Gus Van Sant]

But I mean, we could have studied that or we would know about it in school.

[Bill Maher]

I don't remember ever studying it, but you can only imagine that something like that today could never be studied dispassionately. Somebody would be like, Whitaker Chambers. And the other one would be like. Who was the other guy? Whitaker Chambers and the guy who had the. The secrets in the pumpkin. Remember that whole scandal? Yeah. Oh, the Rosenbergs, you know, the same era, they just.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, they seemed like shafted by Roy. Roy. Roy Khan.

[Bill Maher]

You think? So you think the Rosenbergs did not pass secrets to the Russians?

[Gus Van Sant]

I think that. Yeah, I think that just knowing Roy Cohen. No. Or knowing about Roy Cohn. I never knew him personally, but.

[Bill Maher]

Did you see the Apprentice?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes.

[Bill Maher]

So great, right?

[Gus Van Sant]

That's really great.

[Bill Maher]

That's a great movie and a great portrayal. I mean, usually. Now that is a. A fun movie. Even if the performances weren't so great, which they both were. But normally I can't enjoy a movie if there's just a great performance, you know?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, you need the.

[Bill Maher]

I. I do.

[Gus Van Sant]

Context of the performance.

[Bill Maher]

To me, it's like a guitar solo. It's like, it's. It's got to be. I like the song.

[Gus Van Sant]

You need the song. Yeah, of course.

[Bill Maher]

But I feel like I don't think.

[Gus Van Sant]

There is such a thing as just a great performance.

[Bill Maher]

What do you mean?

[Gus Van Sant]

A movie that is known for only the performance without like what the performer is supposedly performing.

[Bill Maher]

Really?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, that has to have a basis. I mean, it could be something simple.

[Bill Maher]

But betcha I could find one. But you may be right. I mean, Lenny, that Dustin Hoffman did, I thought was a great performance. I don't think it was a great.

[Gus Van Sant]

The movie wasn't a good movie.

[Bill Maher]

You're right.

[Gus Van Sant]

You know, actually, I don't think that fortunately, Dustin Hoffman, who's still alive, you.

[Bill Maher]

Say unfortunately, that he's still alive.

[Gus Van Sant]

Unfortunately. No, no, no, he's still alive, though.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I thought you had beef him.

[Gus Van Sant]

Unfortunately, he's not funny. He's funny like as a character in the Graduate, but he can't deliver a joke. But to me, in Lenny, that is not funny. So every single time, you're right, he's going, I like tits. And it's not funny when Lenny does it. It's fantastic as a comedian because you have that footage of Lenny really doing it.

[Bill Maher]

We hate it when people play comedians because you can't play. Always looks bad. You're right. But.

[Gus Van Sant]

But the context of Lenny also was kind of fabulous that he was trying to just allow language to live in the open as opposed to like the seven words pioneer.

[Bill Maher]

I stand upon his shoulders. The fact that I could have spent my life traveling around this country saying whatever the fuck I wanted in theaters from Mobile, Alabama to Maine, and nobody ever threatened to barge into that auditorium and arrest me because I was saying pussy and cunt and fuck and fuck Trump or whatever it was that I owe to somebody. And if people don't know. That was not the case in the 60s he was arrested nine times. I think he had six trials. I mean he was always fighting the law. I mean we basically had blasphemy laws. It's crazy.

[Gus Van Sant]

On his own too. He just. He was the one man ban decided that these words should be said and.

[Bill Maher]

Thoughts, not just words, concepts questioning religion. And nobody talked about, you know, sex. Sex in a raw way, like anal sex. That was just something that even the edgiest comic and certainly Morty Gunty and Jackie Mason were not talking about fisting and you know, and he just went.

[Gus Van Sant]

And he did where everyone.

[Bill Maher]

Where no man feared tread. You know, he was. But funny, you know, I mean just.

[Gus Van Sant]

The performance of Dustin as Lenny. But then Lenny himself was just innately. I mean he. Maybe he learned how to be that way, but he. He was definitely funny delivery.

[Bill Maher]

You think Lenny Bruce was.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

See when I've listened to the records, the pacing is so different than today again, times they just change. They do folk. It's just so much slower before he gets to something sometimes. And we have been trained, including me, I think and certainly the way I did comedy, you know, I would just never let that long a time elapse before I got to something that was making people laugh.

[Gus Van Sant]

But. And towards the end he's reading his transcripts from. And then there's that, there's that. But he's definitely was fast.

[Bill Maher]

He was.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. Depending on which recording. But just reading the book. Lenny Bruce, ladies and gentlemen. Lenny Bruce.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

Is like just the history of the, you know, New York comedy scene and all the bars and the guys that own the bars and the comedians that like Dangerfields and the comedians that they were stealing from, you know, their material from the table. Comics that couldn't go on the stage but like Lenny could learn from them and like actually present them on, you know, impersonate them. He might not have had like his own funny soul, but he adapted it, you know. And in that book they're sort of describing him coming back from San Francisco and all of a sudden he was this full blown comedian.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, he was a rock star to a certain group. But I feel like in that era, again we're talking about late 50s, you know, that. I mean he was, you know, sort of the John the Baptist for the ones who came a little later, like Woody Allen who became the stars.

[Gus Van Sant]

But then in the 50s it would be like jazz and then like a comic and then some more jazz. You know, they would like trade off. The comics were always kind of yeah, the beatniks. Weren't the beatniks like Durante, people like that?

[Bill Maher]

Who, Jimmy Durante.

[Gus Van Sant]

Jimmy Durante, yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Was what.

[Gus Van Sant]

He'd be on stage, you know, between the jazz acts.

[Bill Maher]

Oh.

[Gus Van Sant]

You know, and the jazz. The Comic Comedian Club or the jazz clubs were, you know, partly like comedy. And then the beatniks weren't even. They were maybe listening to the jazz, but they didn't seem to figure into the.

[Bill Maher]

There was a show called Dobie Gillis. You remember that?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes. Really?

[Bill Maher]

Well, okay, now, that was just when I first was watching tv. I didn't think I got it all. And maybe it was on a little too late for me. But my recollection was college kids, and there was a character, Maynard G. Krebs, played by Bob Denver, who later became Gilligan. And I think he was the beatnik. Right.

[Gus Van Sant]

And he was the hipster beatnik. Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And that was like, you know, it was like. When you look at it, we're talking about 59, 60, or something like that. Like, that was this weird new thing. And you could see that there was this. In a new generation, you know, just the seeds of an idea that 10 years later, with the hippies.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Then it would full flower, you know, free love and the women's movement and. I mean, certainly when I was first, you know, thinking about girls, free love was just like a really new thing.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Like they would. Like, really. You could. You could. This girl without marrying her, you know, it was a very new, exciting idea. Yeah, very exciting to me because I wanted to both fuck and not marry. Love the one you're with Love the one you're with.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Gus Van Sant]

Lyrics, too, like. Yeah, that's an airplane or something.

[Bill Maher]

No, no, that's Stephen Stills. Stephen Stills, I think maybe with Buffalo Springfield.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Maher]

Something like that. Well, you must. You were at an age when you could have actually. So you could have gone to woodstock. I was 13. I couldn't.

[Gus Van Sant]

I was on my way. I was 16.

[Bill Maher]

No, you were gonna go to Woodstock.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, but I had a job in New York, and I couldn't leave until Friday afternoon. And by Friday afternoon, it was a national. It was a disaster area. And the. The forces. You know, the president was flying in food and water because. And we were still gonna go. My friend and I were gonna hop in a car and drive to Woodstock, which was only a couple of hours from Connecticut, but.

[Bill Maher]

16.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, 16.

[Bill Maher]

What, you didn't ask your mother or. You didn't have to, or. She said.

[Gus Van Sant]

Well, no, they said, you're not going There you're not. And on the news, you could see the footage of, like, the sea of people. And we said, well, we're gonna meet, you know, Jim and Tim. They're in front of the stage. We gotta meet them. And my parents just refused to let us go. So we listened to the parents. Cause we thought, yeah, it is kind of like an odd, you know, natural disaster.

[Bill Maher]

But you went.

[Gus Van Sant]

You said, no, we didn't go. I was on my way.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I see.

[Gus Van Sant]

But I was stopped.

[Bill Maher]

So what's you got your eye on next? This movie. Hopefully we'll get the Oscar recognition it deserves. The lead guy certainly should get something. He's great.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's who.

[Bill Maher]

I don't know him.

[Gus Van Sant]

Bill Skarsgard.

[Bill Maher]

I know the other Skarsgard. He was kind of new to me.

[Gus Van Sant]

He was the lead in it. He was it.

[Bill Maher]

I never saw. Is that the one about the clown?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, it's more like for almost for kids. But, yeah, he was the scary guy in it.

[Bill Maher]

Oh.

[Gus Van Sant]

But he's done a lot of work, and I had seen him in a number of films and just thought he was great. I'd worked with his dad in Goodwill hunting Stellan.

[Bill Maher]

Love him. Love him.

[Gus Van Sant]

Who's.

[Bill Maher]

He is. I think he's up for something. Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

Their movie is up for Gold Gloves.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Because I said, I was told my friend Sean Penn on Thanksgiving, and I said, you are definitely gonna win for. What's the name? Absolutely.

[Gus Van Sant]

I agree.

[Bill Maher]

What's that movie? One battle after another, one battle after another. Which I liked.

[Gus Van Sant]

I loved him. And it took me a while to figure out, oh, yeah, he's gonna win. Because who else is gonna.

[Bill Maher]

He's perfect. Well, he's gonna win. First of all. He's a great actor. There's no doubt about that. He's also, like, somebody who is woke approved, so that's good. And then the movie is woke approved, so that's good for the Academy. And also, icing on the cake at the end of the movie, spoiler alert. He is horribly disfigured. And so he does the last two scenes with a super fucked up face. Oscar. I don't think we have to look any further just to make room on.

[Gus Van Sant]

The shelf for that.

[Bill Maher]

Like, he's at that age where they want to give him a victory lap, and he deserves it. And even if he wasn't, it is a great performance. Like you. You don't have to apologize for it. All these things make it easy to give it to him, but it also is an awesome performance, and it's Supporting. He plays the bad guy in a movie that liberals like, which is like, oh, great. Somebody had to do that. Somebody had to like, step up and take a bullet and be the bad guy, be the conservative.

[Gus Van Sant]

I wonder if he knew that going in.

[Bill Maher]

Probably Sean knows everything, but he. But he definitely is just, you know, he's just, you know, one of those actors that comes along, you know, maybe, you know, one or two in a generation who just kills every part. You can't take your eyes off him. And maybe it's because, you know, as a person, he is. I always say Sean will never find a movie part that is as interesting as his own life. You know, everybody else in this town is a phony who talks and talks and talks and. And he walks the walk. He goes to Syria, he gets people out of prison. He goes to Katrina. You know, he is the most interesting man in the world. I.

[Gus Van Sant]

Have you gone with him?

[Bill Maher]

What?

[Gus Van Sant]

Have you gone with him?

[Bill Maher]

No, I. I told him I don't go anywhere east of La Brea. Okay. I'm. I'm not Mr. I'm not here. I'm here. Not hero man. He is great. You know, I. I don't feel bad for him. It's an old saying. Don't pity the martyr. He likes his job.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, he likes doing it and he's good at it. And he's a man of action at El Chapo. All that shit. Just insane, this guy's life.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's right.

[Bill Maher]

So for him to find a part that's like, interesting like that, like in that again, spoiler alert. When he has to like get a heart on just from looking at this girl at his age. Good luck with that.

[Gus Van Sant]

Okay.

[Bill Maher]

And I say that as a over sex heterosexual, but it was. I mean, I assume that was the part of it where I'm supposed to say. And I did say, and I was happy to say this is a black comedy. Wouldn't you say that it's a black comedy, that movie.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

So it's to die for.

[Gus Van Sant]

To die for as well.

[Bill Maher]

Totally. Which maybe my most favorite genre.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, it's a great. I mean, also one battle after another is not just a black comedy. So otherwise I think it might be in trouble. But it's like really easy for the studio. Or not easy, but it gets by and it's gonna win the Oscar.

[Bill Maher]

You think so?

[Gus Van Sant]

I4 never had a chance. It was too dark. I mean.

[Bill Maher]

Really?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

Too dark. Wow.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, especially for the studio. They wanted to sell it as a romantic comedy and they tested it as a romantic comedy. And the tests were like, really low, like 30% or something like that, and they couldn't figure out why.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, I guess it gets harder and harder in the age of spandex and AI and shit to sell people on, you know, thoughtful stories. You know, like the one you have up now that's like, you know about something, but still entertaining, you know, I don't want to watch a movie and just be sad. I did a piece one year about the Debbie's Debbie Downer, you know. Cause all the movies were like, super downer. Remember Nomadland? And, you know, it's one thing to make me think, but don't make me go home and want to get in the bathtub with a toaster. Okay.

[Gus Van Sant]

You know, that won the Oscar, though.

[Bill Maher]

Of course, because. Because the Academy changed from having the Oscars be a ceremony that was about, look at what good pictures we make, to look at what good people we are. I mean, I saw the list for the Golden Globes. I'm sure there's some great movies there. I hadn't heard of a number of them. The only one I heard of for sure, I think, was the one we were just talking about.

[Gus Van Sant]

Other ones were like one battle after another.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. And then it was like something from Brazil and maybe Korea, Iran, you know, like, I'm sure these are great movies, but they're not exactly the crowd pleasers that, you know and, you know.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I'm debating whether to go to the Golden Globes. I'm nominated for my Stand up special.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh, excellent. Congratulations.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, thanks. I have never had a great experience with award shows, and I think. I just think the whole thing is kind of barbaric, the way they get these people who are needy and certainly no one is needier than show people to, like, sit there and like, please, please say you like me. And it's like, you know, I had that mentality the first 25 times or whatever they nominated me, and it was like, okay, you know what? I get it. I'm not award show bait. Exactly. You know, kind of like with your to die for thing with what you were saying. But so, like, why torture yourself and, you know, be in a room where you're put in. It's just.

[Gus Van Sant]

I love the expressions where people. They have the stills of all the contestants, the people up for the award.

[Bill Maher]

Nominees, you mean nominees. We're not contestants, Gus, For Christ's sake, treat us like animals. Is that what you think of us? We're contestants?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes. Well, you're right, but one of them wins. But all four of the other nominees, they have to do something. So sometimes they. They look sad.

[Bill Maher]

They have.

[Gus Van Sant]

But a lot. A lot of times they're like, great. And, you know, they don't mean it.

[Bill Maher]

They're actors.

[Gus Van Sant]

They're acting.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah, it's.

[Gus Van Sant]

It's.

[Bill Maher]

Well, see, that would be number problem. Number one, I'm sure I'll never win. And when I lose, I'm not an actor. So I'd just be like, fuck, let's get out of here. Cause that's what I would be saying is like, okay, yeah, let's go. I came, I lost, and you know, let me get out of here. But it is tempting because I have lost over 20 Emmys. I lost at the Grammys for a spoken word. I was almost nominated for an Oscar for my documentary Religionist, and they felt so bad about not nominating me, they asked me to give out the award. I was the presenter. So I'll count that as losing an Oscar and also a Tony and a stand up on Broadway that was nominated didn't win that. So I would be like the anti Egot. If I also could somehow not win the Golden Globe. I could have a full panoply of total empty shell, which is.

[Gus Van Sant]

But you're gonna win or not?

[Bill Maher]

I mean, first of all, I resent the words win when we talk about award shows because they say it in the same way they talk about sporting events. But it's not the same. It's not the same. You know, when the Eagles won the super bowl, it's because they actually beat the other team. It's not somebody's opinion that they beat the Chiefs. They actually did it.

[Gus Van Sant]

That's true.

[Bill Maher]

This is just somebody's opinion. Okay.

[Gus Van Sant]

A vote. It's like a political.

[Bill Maher]

But anyway, I hope you win. I hope you're nominated and you win all these awards because, you know, if you do, suddenly the money gets easier to get. Don't you think?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes. Even if you're, like, coming close to it, the attention. Yeah. Is good.

[Bill Maher]

That's why it's. You know, again, it's just ridiculous where they talk about it like he won. Like God proclaimed. No. Some people thought that was good. Lots of others didn't. Okay. But you. But it. It affects the actual commerce.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

And, you know, the whole thing. The Oscars were started because the. The actors wanted to unionize, and Louis B. Mayer said to distract them, he said, hang medals on them.

[Gus Van Sant]

Oh, wow.

[Bill Maher]

And they'll forget about it.

[Gus Van Sant]

I didn't know that.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

20S or.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

Wow.

[Bill Maher]

Or maybe the 30s.

[Gus Van Sant]

Probably the 30s. 30s.

[Bill Maher]

Well, no, because it started in the late 20s. I think the first one was 29 or something. Wow. Didn't wings one win the first.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, yeah. That's 20s.

[Bill Maher]

The Howard. Howard. Howard Hughes movie.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, Howard Hughes, that's right.

[Bill Maher]

It's depicted in Scorsese's biography of him. Right. Where he shoots the planes and then he's like, oh, we got to throw it all away. We need clouds. Because without the clouds, people don't see. They have nothing to see how fast the planes are going. It doesn't look real. You got to love that.

[Gus Van Sant]

Good old Howard.

[Bill Maher]

Well, just that kind of dedication that there are people like that.

[Gus Van Sant]

And he had the. The dollars to do. Just redo it.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. Are you always an on budget guy to the studio?

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I just stay on budget.

[Bill Maher]

They trust you to be on time and on budget.

[Gus Van Sant]

I think technically they can't just trust you. I think the insurance companies have to draw a blood from.

[Bill Maher]

Plenty of movies have gone over time and over budget.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. If you're in a studio. I went to die for. For instance, there were so many little bits that I was afraid that we didn't have enough days. And I was not, I was edging back from signing the contract because you have to sign this promise that you will keep on budget. And I couldn't, I couldn't guarantee, so I didn't want to sign it. So I called the, the president. I think I got. It wasn't the president. It was Amy Pascal, who was a vice president. And I said, amy, I can't sign this because I can't guarantee with all these. She says, you know what happens if you go over budget?

[Bill Maher]

And.

[Gus Van Sant]

And I said, no, what happens? And I said, we, we fly over there, we tell you to, to stop in and, and be on budget, and then we fly away. And like, that's the whole.

[Bill Maher]

And you keep working and they're just gonna.

[Gus Van Sant]

They don't fire you.

[Bill Maher]

But what are they gonna.

[Gus Van Sant]

So they're just gonna, they're just gonna give you more money not to, you know, abuse the, the money they're giving you.

[Bill Maher]

But they're not just gonna eat the money that they've already invested in this.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, they won't. They'll. In a way, they'll slap your wrist and then that's it.

[Bill Maher]

Right?

[Gus Van Sant]

You told me it's okay to sign, so I just signed it.

[Bill Maher]

Kind of like the old thing about if you owe somebody like a small amount of money, it's a debtor, but if It's a lot amount of money. It's a partner.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

You know, they. They can't. They don't want to eat this, so they kind of have to.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

But there are stories about directors who kept. I mean, Kubrick on Eyes Wide Shut, I think, kept Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman for like a year more time than they thought. Than they thought.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. And he didn't pay him more money, really. No, it doesn't. Yeah, everyone. That's the thing about Kubrick films. Everyone's working on a flat fee, but there's no guarantee of how long it's gonna be. The crew, too.

[Bill Maher]

Wow.

[Gus Van Sant]

So I think there could be trouble sometimes on his films, but I think that Nicole and Tom probably were like, you know, we believe in this filmmaker and we're making something good. You know, they were invested.

[Bill Maher]

It was Kubrick.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, Kubrick.

[Bill Maher]

After all the amazing movies he did. Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

So he had power.

[Bill Maher]

I could see why they thought this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I bet you they don't regret it.

[Gus Van Sant]

No, I don't think so either.

[Bill Maher]

You know, even with all that it put them through, you either go with it or you can just laugh at it. I mean, it's so over the top if people don't remember, like, again, it could be a dream sequence. But he stumbles upon this secret society of, you know, the rich, powerful men. And what they do is they get together at this awesome mansion and there's like hundreds of people there. And the men are wearing masks and in cloaks and it's very ritualized. And there's all these beautiful girls, naked, walking around. They have the mask on and they have like a. Holding a staff with the ritual of this, you know, and there's ceremonies and it's sort of semi satanic. And he doesn't belong there because you have to be.

[Gus Van Sant]

He snuck in.

[Bill Maher]

He snuck in and this is. But. And he goes upstairs and it's just room after room of people and they're fucking in the background and whatever. It's just, you know, it's guys, rich guys getting laid. You don't really need to rent a mansion and get mass to do it. Okay.

[Gus Van Sant]

But it was a Viennese version of it in the, you know, in the 30s 40s, Epstein's the junior power monger that had sex rings with teenage girls and powerful men.

[Bill Maher]

We don't know that as a fact.

[Gus Van Sant]

We don't know that. They weren't powerful men.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, they were powerful. Well, we're talking about what we know as a fact.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

What? We like Bill Clinton. If he was here, he'd be getting blown. No, if he was here, he would say yes. You have the logs. I was on Epstein island, but did I ever, you know, get more than a massage? There's a picture of him getting massaged. He's got his clothes on, but there is a girl behind him massaging him. Maybe that's all there was to it. We don't know for a fact. Being Bill Clinton, who Hillary herself once described as a hard dog to keep on the porch.

[Gus Van Sant]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

I can imagine there was a little shenanigans. Yeah. And certainly Epstein was having sex. He himself was having sex with underage girls and deserved to go to prison.

[Gus Van Sant]

Not every guy that walked in the door like Woody. I'm not sure what he's called.

[Bill Maher]

Prince Andrew. Yes, yes, we know that.

[Gus Van Sant]

The guys we don't like, they're like, yes. And the guys we do like, no, they wouldn't have done that.

[Bill Maher]

No, I'm not saying that. They're all dirty dogs. They all would do it. Every. Anybody who was on Sex island, you know, I'd say at least a 50. 50. Alan Dershowitz, Bill Gates. You know, I always said this about Epstein when. When there's a guy who's like, super rich and you don't know what he does, he's a pimp. And guys like Bill Gates, who are nerds, who are the opposite, they need a friend like Epstein. Yep. That's what it is. It's not because he's some financial genius.

[Gus Van Sant]

Right.

[Bill Maher]

Did you read the emails to him and back? Because he's like this. This love guru.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

To these men who are asking him advice, like, who's the dude at Harvard? Larry Summers. I think out there, he was the treasury secretary under some Obama, you know, very powerful guy still as a voice on the economy. But he's writing, you know, dear Jeff, there's this Asian girl in the office who I think likes me. How do I make my move? Signed frustrated. On Wall Street. You know what?

[Gus Van Sant]

There's like, all the exchanges of money, though, as well that goes along with those messages and letters.

[Bill Maher]

Money.

[Gus Van Sant]

Money.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

That appears in Epstein's. Either he's a good investor or they're just.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, I see. Yeah. Well, I don't think he was a bad investor, but I think he probably was doing something a lot of people could do. But he had this extra side game that was like, you know, invest with me and you'll get, you know, 4.5 return. Invest with this guy. You'll get 5.5. But with me, you'll also get blown. Right. You know that this is like. Okay, but that would be a good subject for you.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yes, I know.

[Bill Maher]

Really? You would do that?

[Gus Van Sant]

Well, I mean, until the. All the information. Yeah. The. Oh, the death is so interesting, too.

[Bill Maher]

Yes.

[Gus Van Sant]

How little it was investigated and how they just were like, okay, he killed himself.

[Bill Maher]

What's your judgment on that? Did kill themselves. Somebody, like, did it, or you think somebody did it?

[Gus Van Sant]

I think somebody did it.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

I mean, until everything's sort of in, it's hard to really make the story. It's halfway.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, from the photos I saw, I'm just speaking for myself.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I'm not exactly a boy scout, but I don't know how I could if I wanted to kill myself in that situation.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah.

[Bill Maher]

I mean, maybe he was great with the sailors knot. I know. There didn't seem to be enough room to do it.

[Gus Van Sant]

I'm with you.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah. You know, so. But also, people are. I don't know. I don't care. But. All right, so what? So if you're not gonna do that, and we're not gonna do the remake with Sabrina Carpenter. Cause you once did a remake. You did Psycho.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, I remember Psycho.

[Bill Maher]

Loved it. I remember you did. Oh, very much. I remember it vividly.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, it was a. It was a sort of proposal.

[Bill Maher]

Vince Vaughn was perfect. Yeah, he's a little creepy. I like him, but I mean, he's got the factor.

[Gus Van Sant]

He has a side. He has a side. But I was. I was making that mostly because.

[Bill Maher]

When.

[Gus Van Sant]

I was starting out with Drugstore Cowboy, the actors were sort of wanting to work with you. So that meant the studios wanted you to direct something because they knew the actors would go with something that you would direct. So I would have meetings at studios based, really. Based because of actors. Not so much because Drugstore Cowboy did well, but which it didn't really do well. So I was always in Casey Silver's office at Universal, who had Psycho. And, you know, every year or two, whenever a film would come out, the actors would go, like, we want to work with Gus. And so Casey would call me and say, let's get something going. You know, you can. And he introduced me to people that handled the library of films. You could make a film from an old script that Billy Wilder wrote that hadn't been done. You know, that kind of thing. Or you could remake one of the library pieces. And I was, at the time, in the 90s, early 90s, they were remaking everything from the Brady Bunch to The Flintstones, they were remaking because audience recognized those characters and they would be drawn to it. And. And those two films, you know, of course, the kids could go, too. But I said, you know, why don't you really remake the film instead of kind of remake it, changing the ending. Because they always change the dark ending from the old movies, because the old movies had darker endings than our 90s movies. And they would just laugh and say, no, we won't be doing that anytime soon. And then next time I went, same thing. I said, how about, like, how about we do this? Because they want. They seem to want to do anything with me. So Psycho remake it, you know, don't change anything about it. Just the actors will be different, copy every shot. And they would laugh at me. And then Good Will Hunting was. Came up, was coming out, and it was the awards. It was nominated for, like, 10 Academy Awards. So all the studios, they want to get those people sort of signed up to something so that if you win, they can lean over and say, we've got his next film. I think that's the reason they want you. It's just really so they could do that.

[Bill Maher]

Well, your superpower is that the stars want to work with you.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah, that's why I was even volunteering.

[Bill Maher]

Especially going back in time, I mean, still today, to a degree, but there are less people who they themselves can open a movie. But going back, I mean, the star had all the power. And so if the star wants the director, now you have the power. Yeah, I mean, the stars want two things. They want a script that makes them look good, you know, or challenges them or, you know, it's interesting. Depends on how much power they have and how much they're willing to, you know, risk their career. Certainly some of them are like, no, I'm not playing anyone who the audience doesn't see as a hero, you know, and there are other ones who want to go in the opposite direction and be challenged. Whatever it is, they need the script.

[Gus Van Sant]

And they need the stockholders. When they ask the studio head to say, how could you make that decision? And they would have an out, of course.

[Bill Maher]

Well, it's like, you know, because George Clooney wanted it.

[Gus Van Sant]

George Clooney wants it. Okay. Yeah. So.

[Bill Maher]

But it's a good tribute that they liked.

[Gus Van Sant]

I was like, being set up at different studios. And so at the last minute, Universal called my agent and said they just. They want to know if there's a movie that you. You can say you would do with them. Just, you know, like, in case Tomorrow, you win. And I was. And then I said, of course, Universal, Casey, Silver, Psycho. Don't change anything. You know, copy it and the stars will be different, but keep it the same. And the answer was, we think that's brilliant. Let's make it. As opposed to laughing at me every other year. And I was like, oh, shit, they really want to do it.

[Bill Maher]

Are you saying that this town is full of a bunch of phonies? Gus, don't burst my bubble. That's not.

[Gus Van Sant]

But then the onus was on me because then they said, yes. And I was like, oh, shit, I have to actually do it. And certain people were saying, you know, that you'll be killed by the critics. And I thought, well, maybe that's okay. Maybe that's. I can live through that.

[Bill Maher]

Critics don't matter. Stars matter. And the fact that they like you, that's what matters. You know, the fact that they feel like they're in shape. Hands and, you know, I mean, it's. There's a million ways a movie can get fucked up, but certainly right from the beginning is a director who doesn't know what he's doing. And I'm sure if you're in. Been on sets with the director who I didn't think was good. And it's like every day is kind of a slog because you're fighting against the person who's making the thing. And it's just. You just kind of know from the beginning it's doomed. No, you know, they. They have to. You know, and especially in the days with women when they didn't feel safe, always with the director. You know, I mean, there's some bad stories about, you know, just industry was misogynistic up until very recently. I don't think people dare try what they used to get away with. You know, they used to call, you know, in the 30s, like George Cukar, you know, a gay director was called a woman's director. He's. Yeah, because he could bring it. Because probably Katharine Hepburn was like, please get me this guy. He's not going to chase me around like, you know, Louis B. Mayer was, you know, wasn't Judy Garland even pressed into Service for the 4 o' clock blowjob that the studio heads got? I mean, that's a real thing.

[Gus Van Sant]

Yeah. No, I understand.

[Bill Maher]

Yeah.

[Gus Van Sant]

Especially. Yeah, Mayor.

[Bill Maher]

Oh, they were bad. But, you know, we didn't do it. We don't have to answer. So what. What is the next project? Can you give us a hint?

[Gus Van Sant]

There isn't.

[Bill Maher]

What do you want to do?

[Gus Van Sant]

I have to sort of choose from a bunch of things that are possibilities. So there's not really a project right now.

[Bill Maher]

All right, well, whatever it is, I will look forward to it. I wish you great good luck at the Oscars. You certainly deserve a victory lap.

[Gus Van Sant]

Great. Thank you.

[Bill Maher]

And I hope everybody sees Dead Man's Wire. It's really good.

[Gus Van Sant]

Cool.

[Bill Maher]

Thank you so much, sir, for coming by to my crazy place.

[Gus Van Sant]

Thank you.

[Bill Maher]

All right.

[Gus Van Sant]

Club Random.

[Bill Maher]

Take a picture with me.

[Gus Van Sant]

Sure.

[Bill Maher]

Okay.

[Gus Van Sant]

Club Random.

[Bill Maher]

I enjoy a drink like any responsible adult. Wink, wink, trying to survive December. But luckily for us, we now have Zbiotics to help us power through the next day. Or in my case, a session of Club Random. Zebiotics pre alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. Go to zbiotics.com random to learn more and get 15% off when you first order when you use code Random at checkout, Zebiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee. And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Gus Van Sant]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera.

[Bill Maher]

They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[Gus Van Sant]

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