John Malkovich | Club Random with Bill Maher

Summary

Club Random with Bill Maher: John Malkovich (December 1, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode of Club Random brings celebrated actor John Malkovich to Bill Maher’s famous basement bar for an unfiltered, deeply personal conversation. They traverse subjects like memory, family, the craft of acting, the nature of show business, generational changes, privilege, and philosophical reflections on art, luck, and life. The tone is humorous, candid, and occasionally philosophical, showcasing Malkovich as both fun-loving and intellectual, while Maher balances irreverence with insight.

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Main Themes & Purposes

• Reflecting on Memory, Aging, and Generations: The two explore how memory works, the impact of having children and grandchildren, and how generational attitudes shape one’s outlook.
• Passion for Work & the Craft: Malkovich opens up about still loving the work, whether it’s prestige theater or big-budget Hollywood, and his approach to diverse creative projects.
• Luck, Privilege, and Perspective: Both men acknowledge the luck and privilege of their own positions and the era they were born into.
• Attitudes Toward Parenting, Authority, and Toughness: Candid discussion of their parents’ generation, physical discipline, and shifting social mores.
• Art vs. Necessity in Society: The role of the arts versus “real needs” in human existence.
• Humor, Self-Deprecation, and Industry Stories: Malkovich and Maher exchange memorable showbiz anecdotes, often with dry wit and keen observations.

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Detailed Breakdown and Highlights

Opening Banter & Memory Lane

[02:30–10:43]

• Reunion Vibes: After a lighthearted back-and-forth, the episode begins with Bill warmly welcoming John, recounting how long it'd been since their last meeting, reminiscing on shared acquaintances like Christopher Walken and contextualizing how artifacts in his studio trigger lost memories.
• Power of Trivial Memories:
  • Maher muses:

    "The way whole swaths of time will, like, be gone for me. And then... the slightest little detail... why do I remember in 1978 when somebody said to me, you know, all the things you put out for snacks are cheese?" (04:16)

  • Malkovich relates, noting that after children, life before fades, because:

    "Your life focuses and you're not really part of that focus. There is a kind of new focus and you have a kind of role in it." (06:09)

• Parental Love: Maher (childfree) expresses awe at the depth of a parent’s love.

Family Backgrounds, America Then & Now

[09:25–14:18]

• Classic American Upbringings:
  • Maher describes his parents as WWII vets —

    "I came from an absolutely Leave it to Beaver background..." (09:29)

  • Malkovich's similarly idyllic recollections segue into a fun anecdote about Barbara Billingsley (Beaver’s mom) being an unlikely childhood crush.
• Aging, Energy, and Showbiz Legends:
  • Discussion moves to cultural touchstones — how stars like Barbara Eden and George Burns were always “old” on-screen, but also the agelessness of iconic performers.

On Acting, Work, and Creative Fulfillment

[15:03–20:58]

• Current Projects & Touring:
  • Malkovich is working on the second season of Bad Monkey with Vince Vaughn and is continually engaged in acting, directing, and collaborating, especially with classical musicians.
  • He left Steppenwolf after 40 years, believing it was time for new voices.
• Love for Diverse Work:
  • “I love the work. Even if it’s not the deepest... I never was a genre person.” (18:00)
  • Contrasts with actors like Brando or George C. Scott who grew to resent the work.
• On Classical Collaborations:
  • Malkovich describes working with Baroque orchestras, doing both narration and “singing”:

    “Sometimes I hesitate to say I’m singing because there is some debate about that...” (21:04)

  • Self-effacing humor: …Tom Waits once told him, “you sing like a fucking girl.” (22:18)

Philosophy of Luck and the Field of the Muse

[26:20–27:33]

• Malkovich humbly attributes his success to luck as much as his hard work:

  “It’s lucky being born John Malkovich...and it’s lucky being born when I was in America...and the color of my skin.” (26:53)

  • Both men agree:

    “We are very lucky to toil in the vineyard of the muse.” (27:29)

AI, Technology, and Modern Inconveniences

[27:54–45:52]

• AI Anxiety: Malkovich expresses concern for the next generation:

  “This terrifies me on a number of levels...because I have children and grandchildren.” (28:07)

• Decline in Service and Modern Frustrations:
  • Both vent about self-service culture (travel, hotels, online bookings):

    “Now you just do everyone’s job.” (45:52)

  • Maher jokes:

    “Another reason why I didn't have kids. You just have more money when you have no kids.” (45:52)

Attitude Toward the Arts & "Low" vs. "High" Culture

[32:10–38:43]

• Showbiz Stories:
  • Malkovich shares the hilarious tale of how a friend scorned the Con Air script (which he did for fun and money—no snobbery):

    “Con Air, convicts on an airplane named after romantic era poets...that’s 500 million. Jerry Bruckheimer producing. Sorry. Done.” (34:46)

• On Intelligence in Showbiz:
  • Maher, with a dig:

    “The talent is so awesome...But not that bright, with notable exceptions...You are exactly who I’m talking about.” (37:14)

Art, Audience, and the Purpose of Difficult Work

[46:54–55:54]

• Malkovich’s Touring Piece:
  • Describes “The Infamous Ramirez Hoffman,” an 82-minute reading, accompanied by classical musicians, about the reverberations of violence and the cost of humanity.
  • On why he does such work:

    “It’s about the cost of things. The cost of being human, the cost of what you do to others, the cost of violence...That’s why I do it.” (50:44)

• Art’s Power to Move:
  • On audience connection:

    “That connection with people...who are touched by it, irregardless of the fact that it’s not in their language...and they haven’t heard it [classical music] in a way they can see and most importantly, feel what it does to them...” (52:04)

Failures and Reflections

[55:54–62:01]

• Not Every Artistic Risk Succeeds:
  • Malkovich recounts his “widely chosen as the worst production in the history of Chicago theater” — 35 naked actors, fire hazards, and on-stage mishaps.
  • Advice from a director:

    “At the end of the play, he kind of stood up...and I said, well, Bob, what do you think I should do? And he goes, ‘close it.’” (61:13)

• On Generational Attitudes & Illusions:
  • Maher cites Eugene O’Neill:

    “A life with illusions is unpardonable and a life without illusions is unbearable. I feel like everything is a variation on saying that in an entertaining way.” (62:01)

Life and Living Well

[63:00–67:17]

• Malkovich:

  “I would never let...I don’t decide my day by who’s president and who isn’t...I live my life. I try to be the best person you can be.” (65:06)

• Maher:

  “You’re so lucky like I am, is that you not just learn, you transmit. You’re putting ideas in the water.” (65:38)

• Both acknowledge the privilege of being born at a favorable time in history, between pre-antibiotics and pre-AI dystopia.

Perspective on Necessity and the Arts

[68:08–69:00]

• Maher:

  “You realize that the arts is not under the category with humans of necessities...we’re definitely in the well, you won’t die without it category.” (68:08)

• Malkovich:

  “No, even books you wouldn’t die.” (68:36)

• Gentle realism about their professions being non-essential, but also “fantastic.”

Generational Change, Hardness, and Upbringing

[69:00–78:39]

• On How Fast Society Changed:
  • Anecdotes about outhouses and the normalization of physical toughness in their parents’ generation, contrasting with today’s sensitivities and fragility.
• Physical Discipline:
  • Malkovich recalls being disciplined as a child and seeing it as a fact of life:

    “If I crossed that line, I was fucked. That’s it. Boom, boom, boom, it's over.” (75:20)

  • Maher offers mild approval:

    “I am someone who believes in spanking as a sort of nuclear option...But the fact that we got to this place where that was just completely verboten...it should not be unthinkable.” (74:47)

Reflections on Praise, Parenting, and Motivation

[77:13–78:39]

• Malkovich describes how his father “didn’t praise the minimum; that was just expected.”

  “Anything I did that was good, that was expected, it wasn’t praised. That was a minimum my father was assigned.” (77:40)

• Both question if constant praise is ultimately good for children.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "The way whole swaths of time will, like, be gone for me. And then... the slightest little detail..."
  — Bill Maher, [04:16]

• "I love the work. Even if it’s not the deepest... I never was a genre person."
  — John Malkovich, [18:00]

• "You sing like a fucking girl."
  — Tom Waits (quoting to Malkovich), [22:18]

• "It’s lucky being born John Malkovich...and it’s lucky being born when I was in America...and the color of my skin."
  — John Malkovich, [26:53]

• "Con Air, convicts on an airplane named after romantic era poets...that’s 500 million. Jerry Bruckheimer producing. Sorry. Done."
  — John Malkovich, [34:46]

• "We are very lucky to toil in the vineyard of the muse."
  — Bill Maher, [27:29]

• "I would never let...I don’t decide my day by who’s president and who isn’t...I live my life. I try to be the best person you can be."
  — John Malkovich, [65:06]

• "A life with illusions is unpardonable and a life without illusions is unbearable."
  — (Eugene O'Neill, cited by Maher), [62:01]

• "I wouldn't want to have been born even 100 years ago..."
  — Bill Maher, [69:00]

• "Anything I did that was good, that was expected, it wasn’t praised. That was a minimum my father was assigned."
  — John Malkovich, [77:40]

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:30] — Episode formally starts, memory lane, last time Maher and Malkovich met.
• [05:26] — On memory, childhood, and before/after having children.
• [10:19] — Upbringing in postwar America and gratitude for good parenting.
• [14:18] — TV nostalgia, aging, and showbiz idols.
• [15:06] — Malkovich's current projects and attitude toward working.
• [18:00] — Passion for acting and lack of genre snobbery.
• [21:04] — Musical collaborations and humorous self-reflection.
• [26:53] — Luck and privilege in a creative career.
• [27:54] — AI and existential societal anxiety.
• [34:29] — The “Con Air” script story.
• [41:44] — Road stories, modern travel, and service complaints.
• [46:54] — Literary and artistic pursuits, why Malkovich loves experimental touring work.
• [55:54] — Anatomy of a disastrous stage production.
• [62:01] — Eugene O’Neill, illusions, and essential themes of art.
• [65:06] — On living one's own life, not being defined by politics.
• [69:00] — Reflections on historical privilege and ideals vs. bare necessities.
• [72:13] — Father's influence and generational toughness.
• [75:20] — Thoughts on physical discipline and shifting parental norms.
• [77:40] — Praise, standards, and motivation.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode presents John Malkovich as less the dark, elusive intellectual and more the enthusiastic, thoughtful artist with a wry sense of humor, humility about his success, and open curiosity about life. The conversation is freewheeling, oscillating between wit and depth, honoring the randomness the show promises while offering genuine insight into art, memory, work, and the privilege of living creative lives.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

Whole stage, wooden stage on fire.

[A]

Since it was opening night. Did they think that was what was supposed to happen in the play?

[C]

They always think that.

[B]

Club Random Random.

[A]

Now you're the older guy.

[C]

I'm the older guy. But I'm not.

[A]

I mean, you're running out of people who are older than us.

[C]

Yeah. Club Random.

[A]

John, Hi.

[C]

Hey man, how are you?

[A]

Good to see.

[C]

Just had a sprint from my studio. Yeah. Jesus, what's the hurry?

[A]

You. When I told me, I mean I never do a show on Friday because I tape my show from 4 to 5. I've never run out of that studio like a bat out of hell like I did tonight.

[C]

Jesus.

[A]

No, no. I'm such an admirer. I haven't seen you in years but you know I'm just.

[C]

I was just thinking last time. Do you know, I think the last time I saw you was also the last time I saw Chris Wolkin.

[A]

Christopher Walken.

[C]

Yeah. At a party, which was for something. I have no idea what. Out here, out in la. Out here at the Beverly Hills Hotel, but outside. And I have no idea what it was for or anything like that. I never go to stuff like that.

[A]

I never go.

[C]

But that was like kind of 20 years ago, I think. Long time ago.

[A]

I have so much stuff. Some of it's in this room that, you know, people say to me, where'd you get that? And I'm like, I don't know.

[C]

Well, I'm gonna be one of those people.

[A]

What about the Supremes? Yeah, that I know where I got.

[C]

Who did this?

[A]

That's. Nobody did it. That's a poster that was inside their album. See, that fits inside an old lp.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Wow. It's fantastic. Of the.

[C]

Fantastic.

[A]

Isn't that fantastic?

[C]

Beautiful.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I wondered where that was from. Remind me of painter from Chicago, but he mostly did Sport people. Guy called, I think, Tim Anderson. It's very similar vein to what he did.

[A]

I mean, memory is such a funny thing. The way whole swaths of time will, like, be gone for me. And then like the slightest little detail, the slightest little moment that seems to have no significance. Like, why do I remember in 1978 when somebody said to me, you know, all the things you put out for snacks are cheese?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Cheese is not important in my life. And yet I remember that kid saying that.

[C]

Why?

[A]

I have no theory on that. Do you?

[C]

No, not so much a theory.

[A]

I think it's secretly somehow significant.

[C]

Well, I don't know. I'd say, what was this? A friend.

[A]

I just remember in Kala. I mean, I could pick so many examples like that, but just like a moment where somebody said something and you'd just be hard pressed to find why it was significant, but it just stuck in your mind. When so many things happen and then there's so many things where, like, I wish I could remember. Why did it so significant? Why don't I remember what? You know, losing my virginity was like. It's like. It's just very vague.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I have no idea. I remember very strange things as well. And I have a pretty good memory, all in all. But I tend to remember. I can see a photo from 40 years ago and kind of remember. Yeah, that was there at this point. Blah, blah, yadda, yadda. But I always think I don't much remember my life before I had children.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. Not. Not too much.

[A]

Because your life takes on a dimension of significance that's incomparable to before.

[C]

Not so much my life, but I think your life focuses and you're not. You're not really part of that focus. There is a kind of new focus and you have a kind of role in it.

[A]

You know, that's one reason I never had kids. Yeah, well, I never wanted to be 2.0.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's probably a good idea. You did.

[A]

Well, no, I mean, people, there's nothing. And I say this to someone who never had, but it's just so obvious that even an outsider like me can see that there is nothing like the love a parent has for the child.

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

Possibly because it's sort of you.

[C]

Yeah. And. Well, I don't know if it's that. In fact, I think it's funny and I think now I'm kind of in a phase that's even removed from that, which is. I went home last week. I'm shooting a series out here and I went home last week. These. Cause we live outside of Boston and my daughter had our second grandchild on 17th and the hospital was already closed, it was near midnight. So we went to see the baby on the 18th and I was reminded a friend and collaborator of mine, his grandmother, when she had her first. They had the first grandchild in Mickey's family. The mother printed a teaser that said, had I known it was this much fun, I would have done this first. And I kind of. I really began to understand that after I had the first grandchild because there's a lot about bringing up children that's not so much fun.

[A]

But the grandchild is a no brainer for the most part because you're not doing the heavy lifting. Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Although that often does not become the case when the. When the kids are ne' er do wells, which happens a lot, you know. Of course. Yeah. The kids on smack. So who takes over the grandma.

[C]

That's right. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, you never know. I think our daughter loves being a mother. And I got to talk to my granddaughter right. On the way here, who I hadn't been able really to talk to because my daughter has been busy. And when I called, I don't get an answer, etc. Etc. But so I got to hear her pooping and.

[A]

How old?

[C]

Seven days.

[A]

Oh, good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because if it was like five, I'd be like, I'm gonna have to call Child Services.

[C]

That's right. Yeah.

[A]

I hope we're still friends. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, I mean, I can relate to absolutely none of this, but it is one reason I like to hear about it, because it just fascinates me as things fascinate a person when you can't relate to them because it's just more interesting because it's so. Not you. Me. I get me. I know me.

[C]

True ye. And did you come from a big family?

[A]

No, I came from an absolutely Leave it to Beaver background. My parents were World War II vets, both of them. My mother a nurse, my father in Patton's Army.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. And barely knew each other in high school, but reconnected in Europe at the end of the war.

[C]

How funny.

[A]

Yeah. Very romantic.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. And my father's Catholic. I was raised Catholic. My mother's Jewish, but only culturally. I didn't even know it when I was a kid, but my father was gonna marry somebody else because Catholic boys just didn't marry Jewish girls in 1951. But at the last minute, he had the change of heart. And so. Yeah, so he was, you know, I was very. You know, you're just so lucky if you have good parents.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, God.

[A]

And so unlucky in ways if you don't.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know. Yeah. So I was lucky. And, you know, Leave it to Beaver. I mean, you were the same age almost. I mean, you like the. The. The America of. This is New Jersey, you know, all white, you know, no, no drugs in the high school. I mean, it was just such a innocent black and white time.

[C]

My life was super. Leave it to Beaver. In fact, probably the big event of my life was when I was. One of them was doing a play out here in Los Angeles at the Mark Tabor Forum. And at the end of the play, there was a knock on the door. And I opened the door, and it was Barbara Billingsley.

[A]

Barbara Billingsley from. Wait, wait. I watched all these shows and reruns as a kid. That's either Beaver's mom. Oh, Beaver's mom. And Beaver's mom. Yes.

[C]

She kind of started with. You know, I just have to tell you this for five. Excuse me. So sorry. Just. Can we stop right there? You're Beaver's mom. You were like, my whole sexual Beaver's mom. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Couldn't wait for I Dream of Jeannie.

[C]

No. First it was Hayley Mills, and then for quite a while, Beaver's mom, John. And Hayley Mills, too, I met backstage, and I had to kind of say the same thing. Sorry.

[A]

No. I mean, I'm your biggest fan, but Barbara Billingsley, that's sick. I mean, like, I could see Hayley Mills. She was cute, sure. But Barbara Billingsley was strictly mom vibes.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. We'll probably have some problem, you know.

[A]

Now I had Barbara Eden sitting in that chair this year.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And she's 94 and, like, really betrays it by, I would say, a quarter century. I mean, you would think. And some people just carry themselves with an energy and a movement that does not suggest age. You know, I mean, Trump has that quality. He's almost 80. And it doesn't. He doesn't read as 80.

[C]

Funny reads is crazy.

[A]

Not 80.

[C]

Different topic. But it's funny because I was thinking about Barbara Eden, who I haven't thought about in years. I was staying at a hotel when I came out here for a few days because I had stuff to do in Burbank, and I stayed out there at a place called Amorona, I think it's called Nice. Perfectly nice. And it had only photos of showbiz people everywhere. And one was Barbara Eden. With Groucho Marx. With Groucho, which was a fantastic photo. And so I was just kind of. Every time I'd leave my room and go down the stairs, I was kind of contemplating, you know, which must have been. I remember thinking about it that when I was a kid, of course, they seemed ancient to Marx Brothers when I was small.

[A]

Me, too. Yeah.

[C]

And probably they were 40, right? I mean. Or not even.

[A]

I remember George Burns when I was a kid, and he was like. His character was almost an old man. He reminded me of not just my uncle, but every uncle.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because a smelly cigar. I remember I had an uncle who smoked his, and it was like this awful, burning, smelly, horrible thing in your smoke. It was just everything, like a kid and a human rejects that you have to, like, force yourself to like things. Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But he was still playing an old man when I was an adult. Like, he played an old man for, like, 40 years.

[C]

I remember he did. The last time I saw him, he did a movie. I don't remember the name. Didn't even. With John Denver.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

Oh, God.

[A]

He's God.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

He was so old, you know? Now they'd probably cast you.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there's. If you're iconic enough, you get to play God. If you haven't done it already, you will. You're a perfect. They must have asked you to be God.

[C]

That would alarm me for humanity, really.

[A]

Because Anthony Hobbs Hopkins God. Or like, I think Zeus or something, like, you know, maybe not our God.

[C]

But a God, you know, Morgan Freeman. Morgan. I'm totally comfortable with that. I'm good with.

[A]

Oh, he's the best God. Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Anthony Hopkins is great, but you get the feeling God is just doing it for the money.

[C]

Yeah, could be. Yeah. That could be a little worried. I like Hampton. Great act.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So great.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So what do you. What's this project you're working on here?

[C]

I am doing right now, the second year of a series which I liked and which I watched all of it called Bad Monkey, Vince Vaughn.

[A]

Oh, Vince Vaughn. I saw it. I was gonna start it. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't. I didn't know you were in it.

[C]

No, it's not. Mine is year two.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[C]

I didn't do the. The first year.

[A]

I like Vince.

[C]

I do, too. He's funny.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This was terrific part for him, and I liked it very much. And somewhere somebody had asked me, what are you watching? Or something. I said, why is that? I find it quite funny. And.

[A]

And you're happy working?

[C]

Yeah, I'm always working. If it's not. If it's not that, it'd be something else, you know, I tour in maybe six pieces fairly constantly for decades. I direct, write.

[A]

I know.

[C]

Do.

[A]

No, you're Steppenwolf. You still have.

[C]

I'm not in Steppenwolf anymore. It got too much for me.

[A]

Oh, I always associated. Yeah, sure.

[C]

You know, I was for 40 years.

[A]

No, I know.

[C]

Yeah. But, you know, it's time for a kind of new generation and their. Their culture, their ideas, their life. I do. I do, for the most part. I spend a lot of times doing classical music collaborations for the last 20 years, almost four, with the Viennese Baroque Orchestra and colleagues there and other ones with different colleagues, all kinds of different.

[A]

Yeah, you're a deep guy, I must say. Like, I spent a lot of time on this thing, like, getting high and then talking about, like. Well, show business. I try to avoid politics because I started this so I place not to talk politics. It goes where it goes, as you can see. There's no question. This is my attempt to get as close as we possibly can to just being exactly how we would be, which I feel we are.

[C]

I understand.

[A]

Yeah. That's why I didn't want microphones and all this stuff.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I just got off the road at 70. I've been on the road doing standup for 42 years along with this and my show. So, you know, it was a lot. And it feels right as the right thing. I mean, we just. And I just. I don't know, I sort of pictured that you were like Brando esque. Cause you are Brando esque to me on that level, honey. Well. And, well, like he was just in his later years, you know, he was not into the work. You seem like you actually like it.

[C]

I love the work.

[A]

And you don't mind being like on the set and in the trailer and.

[C]

No. Oh, see, I love the work. I don't.

[A]

Even if it's in something that's not like the deepest. Really doesn't matter.

[C]

I never was a genre person. When my mother said that when I saw Peter Pan, Mary Martins, I think that was like 56, something like that.

[A]

I remember in black and white on tv.

[C]

Exactly. That I stayed behind this sof for two days. I guess I was so upset by it, you know, and why I have no idea. Was the idea of, you know, wendy, I'm back. Well, no one cares, you know, you or. You know what I mean. Something along those lines. But unlike a lot of wonderful actors, I think Brando is certainly one. George C. Scott, I think was one also. And. And there are many others, I think, that fit into that category. They grew to be embarrassed by that kind of work.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Or grew to dislike it.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I don't feel that way at all.

[A]

That's so much better.

[C]

I'm lucky.

[A]

I'm so glad to hear that because like, I would see you in so many things and like, oh, he's the spymaster in this thing movie. Which I'm enjoying very much. But it's not some deep fucking. No, no, it's not Long Day's Journey into Berlin, you know, it's just a good spy thing. And he's great in this. Cause he's always great. But I just had the feeling. Oh, you know, I know he'd really rather be doing like, you know, Richard iii. And he's just doing it for the money, you know. And I'm so glad to find out.

[C]

That not really meaning I do things that sound like. When I was a kid, of course I grew up listening to. Mostly to pop music or my parents music. When in just a little more than 20 years ago I got approached by classical musicians. Would I consider doing a piece with them about blah blah, blah. I knew nothing about classical music. No background, no interest, no. No love of it, et cetera. And I started doing it because the power of that music and let's say especially the power of that music harnessed in the service of something.

[A]

Excuse my stupidity, but you're doing spoken word with the classic.

[C]

It can be that or sometimes I hesitate to say I'm singing because there is some debate about that, but Love the night.

[B]

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[A]

Tis the season for all your holiday favorites like a very Jonah's Christmas Movie and Home Alone on Disney.

[C]

Did I burn down the joy? I don't think so.

[A]

Then Hulu has National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

[C]

We're all in for a very big Christmas Christmas treat.

[A]

All of these and more streaming this holiday season. And right now, say big with our special Black Friday offer bundle Disney plus and Hulu for just 4.99amonth for one year savings compared to current regular monthly price. Ends 121 offer for ad supported Disney Plus Hulu bundle only then 12.99amonth or then current regular monthly price 18 plus terms apply and okay, well maybe you're singing like Rex Harrison and My Fair lady because he famously was not a singer.

[C]

No, I'm not a talk singer. I was many years ago before the trans craze, I was referred to as like saying like a trans Tom Waits. And many years ago when I used to see a lot of Tom, he just played my brother in a film or rather I played his brother and I one Christmas I sang Heart of a Saturday Night with my guitar into his. Into his recording machine. He called me, you know, a couple hours later and he said man, you sing like a fucking girl. So. But it's a lot of different things. It could be something I adapt and perform in or blah blah, blah. They're not just kind of narrations, they're.

[A]

Singing like a girl piece is not a bad.

[C]

It's not the worst thing. No.

[A]

Frankie Valli.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Princess. I mean I could name a lot of people.

[C]

That was my song at the talent show.

[A]

Eddie Kendrick. You remember the High?

[C]

Yeah, that was. I was listening to. Yeah, yeah, I was listening to it not so long ago. That's why I remembered the name. But so, and that kind of also revivified interests at a time in the same way that say when I was, I was 28, 29, something like that, I Did a play with Dawson Hoffman and.

[A]

Oh, I saw it. I think it's the first time I ever saw you. You were talking about Death of a Salesman. Yeah, I saw it on TV. I remember the TV. I remember where I was. It was like 85.

[C]

80. Yeah, it came out in 85.

[A]

My first apartment out here.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. On Westmount. And I was blown away.

[C]

Well, and that. But that, that was his kind of work ethic and the way he worked so hard.

[A]

Who? Dustin.

[C]

Dustin meant a huge thing to me actually because I was not a big worker. I was like. Yeah, yeah, I read it. I. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, I said okay. Glassmanager. Yeah, I saw. He's a guy. Yeah, okay, I got it. You know, just go out and do it and blah. I never thought about it, never really worked on it. Just did it.

[A]

Maybe that's the best way to do it.

[C]

I mean I.

[A]

Isn't that what they're always trying to get to, that sort of just don't act, just be just like.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

But don't think about it too much.

[C]

But the older you get, you can't really do that, I find. I mean, Maybe it's the 5,000 bottles of red wine, maybe it could be a catholicity of issues, but talking about memory, don't even. Yeah. I mean, so I have to. I have to really apply myself. And I ran into people along the road that helped me to. Its work is never something I took too seriously. I can always leave it at home, I can always go on to the next, etc. But I met people who kept me interested in work my whole life and that was great luck. Whereas some people. I think Brando is one. For whatever reason I didn't know him, but for whatever reason I think there are people who really lose interest in the work. And I find the work interesting.

[A]

Well, because you get offered good work and the reason why that happens is because you are great at what you do, amazing at what you do. And you also were in hit movies. You were in like movies that everybody saw. And you also have that kind of cachet as that kind of top tier actor, well earned. You know, the Daniel Day Lewis's and the De Niro's and the Dustins and you know, so when you have both of those, you'll always work. I mean they'll always be in demand. And I'm telling you, very lucky luck. But it's lucky being born John Malkovich.

[C]

Yeah. And it's lucky being born when I was in America.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

Et cetera, et cetera and the color of my skin without sounding like some kind of.

[A]

No, no, that's true.

[C]

Clown. I had a lot.

[A]

No, it's. Absolutely.

[C]

I had a lot of advantages. But I do think I say luck to the extent somebody says, you work very hard. Yeah, sure, I do, but so do a lot of people who work in a factory or do. So do a lot of actors who never get anywhere.

[A]

No, we are very lucky to toil in the vineyard of the muse.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

Which is a line I stole.

[C]

And it's a great job.

[A]

I mean, that's what I mean. It's like.

[C]

It's fantastic.

[A]

There's. There's jobs and there's careers. Yeah. Careers are fun. Jobs are drudgery. I've had both. Yeah, I know the difference. And by the way, everyone in America knows the difference.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's why they don't want jobs. I can't blame them.

[C]

No, I don't.

[A]

Don't worry, kids with AI, There won't be any.

[C]

Yeah, well, boy, what about that? I mean, see, this. This terrifies me on a number of levels.

[A]

It should. It's terrifying.

[C]

I have children and grandchildren.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And also because I remember already five, six years ago, I was doing a play in. In London, and I was talking to a taxi driver there because they're always very chatty. And we were talking about this idea. Yeah, it's right. You know, they're always. We were talking about this idea of driverless cars, and I just kind of go, okay, that's okay, But. And maybe they'll be better than people. We're profoundly flawed. We're distracted. We run red lights. We get drunk. We get a hug.

[A]

Text while driving.

[C]

Yeah, we text while driving. We put on makeup while driving.

[A]

I do.

[C]

Yeah, certainly. I do. Just the other day, I was watching a girl as someone was driving me to work, as the driver was driving me to work, who was just doing her makeup in the visor and really not looking at the road for kind of 20 seconds and going along the freeway, you know, and, you know, you kind of go, is this. Is this a 101 or is this.

[A]

You didn't say anything.

[C]

No, she was in the next car.

[A]

Oh, the next car.

[C]

Yeah. Just driving along, looking at herself. And, you know, you just.

[A]

I still would have said something. Yeah, I would have. I was once pulled over by a citizen.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I was driving so badly, a citizen pulled me. Citizen?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No, just a guy who said, dude, you're going to have an accident.

[C]

Okay, well, that's fair.

[A]

Very fair.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I celebrated my way into his car and he drove me home.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. I remember we went. He was beefing with his wife, and we wound up going to strip clubs together.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And then one of the strippers drove him back to where we left his car in Malibu.

[C]

That's hilarious.

[A]

But are most of your friends show people?

[C]

I have a good amount of people who are friends in some version of show business or the other, either producers, writers, actors, et cetera.

[A]

Because that's who we get to know.

[C]

That's who we get to know. That's who we work with. Most of them are that. And then I have friends who are not that. I still have friends from childhood. Right.

[A]

Me too. And many people. You know, show business, look, I rag on it all the time here, but the truth is that it's like any other industry. There are saints and there are sinners.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And there's a lot. You know, if you think it's all shit, it's not all shit. It's mostly shit. It's mostly shit. But the stuff that's good is good. We're like, you know, we are very entertained, but we do the best we can, and we can take solace. Almost everybody in show business, that. What we obsess on, that we could have done better. They're not noticing anyway.

[C]

No, they just.

[A]

I never once saw you perform and thought, oh, man, I would have really liked to see an alternate version of that scene. Cause he really could have. It's like, no, he's killing it, as he always is, you know? And I'm so glad to find this out about you. Your attitude. It's rare, really, among icons like that. You're right. The Brando and those guys, they did have a. George C. Scott kind of got cranky at the end. I mean, poor Gene Hackman got eaten by rats. How mad do you have to be in show business to let that happen to you? Well, you know, but.

[C]

God, yeah.

[A]

No, but you have such a great attitude, and it makes me think, oh, then he must be very proud, as I hope he is, of like, the Con Airs in the line of fires. Because, like, those were, like, just for the guy like me who was like, I am not a culture vulture. You know, I like culture. I think I'm pretty more cultured compared to where society has gone than the average bear. But I'm not into it opera or ballet, you know, I don't. You know, But I. I just like a good movie that's also. It's entertaining and it's about Something. And those were movies that fit that. I mean, I think in the Line of Fire, it could be in my top 10 of all movies of all time. Like, of the things I can watch over and over. Seem. Can't seem to resist it. It sort of has a perfect script. I don't know if you won awards for it. You probably should have. If you didn't. They were. They. They got it wrong. And then Clint Eastwood actually could have and should have won a. I thought a leading man actor for them. I love Clint Eastwood, but that performance.

[C]

Yeah, it was great.

[A]

He does some great work in that.

[C]

I love him. And he was terrific. And I have a great Con Air story I think you'd like. I was. We had a house in France, and I was living there. And I was there working on a screenplay of a film I later directed with a writer called Nicholas Shakespeare, who'd written the novel. And Nicholas had never written a screenplay. So three, including on the set of Con Air later, we were working on this script. In the afternoon, we'd come in for lunch. We were still there having a coffee. And then a package came. And it was a dhl and it was a script which is how you used to get, you know, before Internet, in prehistory. That's how you got a script. And so I open up this package, I look at it, I see the title. I open the first page, I see the characters listed, you know, and I look at that. I kind of look at the first three lines or something.

[A]

Of your character or of the whole thing?

[C]

No, of the whole thing. Just the title, the list of characters and stuff, which I noted seem to all have the last names of Romantic era poets and kind of an Easter egg for.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so I kind of thought, okay. And I threw the script like this. We have a long kitchen in France. It's kind of 16 meters. And I just chugged it like that. And Nicholas and I went on talking, et cetera. And then we went out and I picked weeds. We went on working as we did kind of all day long, et cetera, et cetera. And then at the end of the night, after a bunch of wine, Nicholas said to me, you know, John, I've never read a screenplay. Would you mind terribly if I took this screenplay that you received today and read it? And I said, oh, of course. Be my guest. Nicholas Forzi went up to bed. Next morning, he came down, he was just so upset. And he said, I've read this thing. It's just the biggest piece of crap. It's just the worst thing I've ever read. Blah, blah, blah, yada, yada. He went on for kind of three minutes. Very, very English public schoolboy. Very elegant language and, you know, very passionate. And he has a kind of sweetness about him. Nicholas. And he went on and on and on. And then he said, I'm just so glad I'm working with someone with such integrity that they would never consider a thing like this. And I was like, nicholas, whoa, whoa. Nicholas, stop. Sorry. I'm doing it. That's great. I read what I had to read. Con Air convicts on an airplane named after romantic area poets. That's 500 million. Jerry Bruckheimer producing. Sorry. Done. Don't really need to read it. I'm not a kind of snob about that.

[A]

No, you're not.

[C]

I love it. I love funny things.

[A]

I like you more now.

[C]

I love childish things.

[A]

I like you a lot, and I like you more now. It's great because, like, I have to tell you, I was starting to say this, like, 20 minutes ago and then was stoned and forgot. But I'm gonna say it now. Like, I do spend a lot of time here. Cause politics comes up and show business talking about the actors. And I'm afraid it's not often very complimentary. I believe this about people in show business. The talent is overflowing. The talent is so awesome sometimes. I mean, just in music, acting, all this, all the arts, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just so. They are so talented, but not that bright with. And whenever I say this, I always say with notable exceptions. And I just wanted to say to you, because I really. I don't do any preparation, obviously. But this is the one thing that I said. Oh, I hear I have to tell him this. When I say with notable exceptions, I think you are exactly who I'm talking about. I don't mean just behind, but I mean, like, see, you set up. I was sitting in a house in France. This is how I picture you. Sitting in a house in France, surrounded by beatniks and poets and, you know, brilliant people. And then I thought when you're just like, okay, I've got to go to work for the next month and make $12 million so we can live here in France. That's how I thought you were. So it's nice to know that you're enjoying the work and actually you want to get out of the house.

[C]

Yeah, well, you're like every other guy. Sorry, I did this for three days. Yeah. No, I'm not even so eager to get out of the house. But the fact is that's where the work is. You know, in the year when this series finishes, which brings me here, I'll have tours all over South America, North America, Europe. I'll direct a play in Japan.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I'll. Your life is on the road. And I wouldn't do it if I didn't like it.

[A]

I couldn't anymore. This is where we part.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're a better man than I, Gunga Din. I am so happy not having to be on the road, just away from the house, you know, but some people are more homebodies and some people were born in a trunk and that's how they feel comfortable.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

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[C]

How much did you tour?

[A]

Like how every other weekend I was on the road, but just two cities. A very pampered way of doing it. And it was still. It just got to be.

[C]

First of all, it's a lot.

[A]

And also, I hate to put it this way, and of course people will be upset, but people are just like at hotels and stuff, they just can't do shit anymore. I mean, I don't know whether they're stoned or disaffected or both or, you know, just whatever it is.

[C]

But there's also.

[A]

It's just like I just. And I'm not asking for the world. I just want a comfortable experience in a hotel. Don't fuck with the heat and the TV and what Some. Don't make it like I have to think about the fucking room for the all of 18 hours I'm here.

[C]

Yeah, well, they can't do that.

[A]

And why I'm screaming.

[C]

Yeah, I scream about it too.

[A]

I know.

[C]

See, something happened. One could say it was during COVID but I think it's actually predated Covid. Now you're supposed to do that job. So in other words, you no longer can go, say to a travel agent and say, I would like to go from here to there, blah, blah, blah. You have to do it yourself. You have to notice that whenever you book an airplane ticket that whatever you say, one bag. No Tulsa. Not Tulsa. No Oklahoma City. Know this, that the date changes after you go through all this misery to book an airplane ticket. Then they want to know how they did. And so you have to do that job.

[A]

So needy. And it's too needy to be corporately needy. It's one thing to be personally needed.

[C]

I don't want to hear.

[A]

But as a corporation.

[C]

How were we at car rental?

[A]

Do you like me?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you like what?

[C]

I kind of go, listen, I said I picked up a car, just a.

[A]

Car.

[C]

When I got back on the 20th. I won't say what company. The woman is perfectly pleasant. And she started re asking me all the questions where it says, do you Want insurance? Okay, do you want thousands of dollars of third party insurance? Okay, do you want this? Does your butt hurt? Does this? Blah, blah, yada, yada, and fucking on and on and on. And so you fill out all that and I take the flight at dawn from Boston. I get to la, I go to the rental car in Studio City, and she starts the same questions over and I kind of say, excuse me, miss. See, when you fill out this form, you answer all those questions with your reward allegedly being shorter time at the checkout, right? And now you're re asking me all these things in the hopes of getting me to pay $27 for this radio station or blah, blah, blah, all of which I already answered. I already did all that. And that's in everything. Now, if they ship you something, how was it? Well, I paid you, you shipped it, I have it. If I don't have it, you'll hear from me, but otherwise it's fine. And now you just do everyone's job.

[A]

Everyone. See, this is another reason why I didn't have kids. You just have more money when you have no kids. I haven't faced any of this this century. I flew on a private plane, got picked up. I never dealt with a fucking agent. Rental cars. You shouldn't either. But because you have kids which take all your money.

[C]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Yeah, I'm just saying.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Which. You don't get to leave them.

[A]

No. And I'm sure the reward is much greater than having to deal with that agent. But after hearing that story, it's like.

[C]

Sure, but it's just. That's what I find. Now everybody wants you to do their.

[A]

Job and yet you put up with this. Because obviously it's worth it to get there, to the gig. Yeah, it still is.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

For me, that must be a go.

[A]

That's a powerful love that you have for the show.

[C]

If I go. One of the pieces I tour is a piece called the infamous Ramirez Hoffman. This is. I simply read a story. I don't act. There is no acting in it. I read a story. It's a story by Roberto Bologna from his book Nazi Literature in the Americas, which is a book, a small novel of Bologna's. He wrote two massive masterpieces. One called the Savage Detectives and one called 2666.

[A]

I took them both to the beach.

[C]

Yeah, brilliant. Okay, well, brilliant writer. He wrote a kind of very childish, quite funny book. And quite. I mean, in a very dark way, quite mordant way, but also quite a sad book. This book, Nazi Literature in the Americas. Which is essentially 40 fake obituaries of fake Nazis who never existed, all of whom have idiotic literary obsessions. So I.

[A]

Fake Nazis who never existed. So somebody who they're claiming, for example, was spirited out of Germany after the war wound up in Brazil, say, or Paraguay.

[C]

Boys from Brazil.

[A]

Paraguay, because that did happen.

[C]

Yeah, of course. A lot.

[A]

Eichmann and a lot from Brazil. Movie, of course.

[C]

Yeah, Right. There's new.

[A]

But these are fake ones.

[C]

Yeah, these are fake ones.

[A]

These are AI Nazis.

[C]

AI Nazis, exactly.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I hope they'll be more likely looking than the AI Nazis were, but. Because I don't remember a lot of African.

[A]

No, I remember that.

[C]

Yeah, that was picture. That's right.

[A]

If you think AI Might be.

[C]

Well, but this. I got asked by a pianist, a very gifted Russian pianist, what would I do if. What could I come up with her if she wanted to do a tango program? And I immediately thought of this book because South America, Boys from Brazil. Very, very kind of American movie culture. Thinking about it, Eichmann, what is the.

[A]

Point of view of the book?

[C]

It's quite. Some of it's very funny, very mordant, quite dark humor. That particular piece is actually terrifically sad, which is about a character in Chile who is called the infamous Ramirez Hoffman, who starts out as a kind of artsy, fartsy, pot smoking poet.

[A]

Hey, I'm sitting right here.

[C]

Yeah. And ends up as a serial killer and the representative of the Pinochet's regime. Interest in avant garde art. And I said, I want to take this short story and I want to make a musical piece out of it. So it's kind of 82 minutes. I do nothing but read this story. It has a brilliant pianist, a brilliant violinist.

[A]

What is it saying that made you want to do this? Of all the things you could do. I mean, you say fake Nazis. Is that some comment on how it's easy to put one over on people? I mean, we can always be fooled into or.

[C]

Well, we can certainly be, as we know. Including me. But no, I don't think it's that. But it's about the cost of things. The cost of being human, the cost of what you do to others, the cost of violence and death and the reverberations.

[A]

Well, that's a deep thought, but all told. No, I mean it.

[C]

It is. And that's. That's why I do it.

[A]

I mean, just because I remember Woody Allen was here recently and, you know, I was kind of pressing him on this idea that, you know, he said at a certain point, you know, he Never made a great movie. And, you know, which I would debate. I mean.

[C]

Oh, Broadway. Danny Rose is.

[A]

I love a lot of his movies. And he made some terrific stinkers.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

But you know that. Because he's a true artist, you know, he's willing to.

[C]

And we make stinkers.

[A]

Yeah, and we make stinkers. Absolutely. Maybe we're making one now.

[C]

It's possible.

[A]

No, we are definitely not. I'm enjoying the fuck out of it.

[C]

But, yeah.

[A]

Go ahead.

[C]

He's a smart man. I agree with him about that. It happens. But at any rate. So that's why I do it. That connection with people who understand what this writer is saying and what the music is saying and are touched by it. Irregardless of the fact that it's not in their language. Yeah. It has a running translation. Irregardless of the fact that they don't like classical music as far as they know, but because they don't know. In fact, they do like it. They just haven't heard it right. And they haven't heard it in a way that they can see and most importantly, feel what it does to them when channeled in a certain way. And that's why the form interests me.

[A]

I must say. When I hear things like this, it's another one of those where it's fascinating to me because it's not me, because. And I'm torn because part of me says I'm a little jealous that I'm not on this intellectual level.

[C]

And I don't think it's a high level at all.

[A]

I do. I mean, you said people who haven't heard classical music. I have heard it, and it's not my. It's not for me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I mean, I grew up on fucking, you know, the Rolling Stones and.

[C]

Me, too.

[A]

Yeah, I know, but Me too. But some people. And some people can make that bridge. I'm just saying. Part of me, like, wishes I could and knows that there's a place to get to that's, like, maybe would tickle my brain even more. And part of me is like, I'm smart enough.

[C]

You're a very smart man.

[A]

Thank you. I mean, I have a very good common sense and a balance.

[C]

Yes. And I think it's just. And this is where this form first appealed to me. I think it's just how one is or isn't exposed to something and how that thing impacts you. I remember seeing. I directed a play in London a few years ago called the Good Canary, and that was the third production I Had done of it. Done it in two other countries before.

[A]

And.

[C]

A young kid at intermission came over. It was a good production. It's a very nice play by an American writer called Zach Helm. And it was a good production with an excellent cast. And a kid came over to me, young kid, probably 20, very early 20s, very good looking kid, English boy. I was standing there, I still was. I think I still smoked 10, I think maybe I didn't, but went out for intermission and the kid came over to me. He was kind of shaking and he said to me, and this was just a kid. And he said to me, excuse me, are plays always like this? I've never been to a play. And I said, no, they're not. Usually it's a misery. And I've been in a lot of those. This one is not one of those. So they can also be very, very special and make you in the best way, reflect profoundly on life and the human experience.

[A]

What do you think is it that makes it a misery, though, when it's a misery? Well, like what were you referring to.

[C]

Many plays I've directed? For instance, I directed a very famous production of a play called the Savages by the great English writer Christopher Hampton, which was widely chosen as the worst production in the history of Chicago theater. This had 35 naked alleged savages who were meant to be the Cintas Largas Indians in.

[A]

Where are they from?

[C]

Amazon Basin in Brazil, who were being exterminated. The play started on press night. I had said to two of those savages, people playing savages, but these are kids from the North Shore of Chicago, whatever, suburbs in seats quite low in the theater. So you either had a vagina.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

A butthole or a set of balls directly in your face.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

So really, here's how the play starting with my friend Tom Irwin, terrific actor, reciting a poem about these Cintas Largus Indians. I had said five minutes before the play started, I had said, hey, hey, listen to me. If the torch goes out to these two actors who are playing savages, two of the savages. If his torch goes out or your torch goes out with the sterno and the torch, don't try and attempt to light the other idiots torch with your defunct torch. Okay? Am I clear? What. Okay, again, don't try to light. So the poem starts, 35 naked Indians have walked out doing what is what the Peruvians referred to as a piss dance. Everybody's kind of like this. They're this far away from the actors. They're like, fuck Wait, what? And one torch goes out. The guy goes to light up the guy's torch. Whole stage, wooden stage, on fire. No opening press night.

[A]

Since it was opening night. Did they think that was what was supposed to happen in the play?

[C]

They always think that, right?

[A]

So if it catches on fire, they think this is.

[C]

And if they catch on fire, well, I guess it's just meant to be.

[A]

We're talking about direct. Hey, hey, there's no bad publicity. Am I wrong?

[C]

That's right. So we had a girl who during the scenes of the terrorist, kind of Carlos, the jaguar figure, you may remember, of course, and the kidnapped English diplomat up on the top of our set, which had three strips which look like giant sizzling members. Sizzling. The kind of fake bacon for some reason, which I never understood and never asked because, you know, I wasn't the set designer. I wonder what that sizzling is for. But as the Savage band would be playing their little homemade instruments underneath this very serious set, there was a girl who was just had a gas issue.

[A]

Who would just not with that fire. Oh, my God. Talking about a recipe for disaster, talking about the audience.

[C]

The further this person is like where that sofa is. So there's olfactory, there's smell, and on a certain level, is there taste. I mean, and you had people who supposedly have never heard English spoken and have never even heard Portuguese spoken, let alone English. And the guy is supposed to be the chief of the tribe. And then during the ritual, he gets handed the bowl of fruit. And what does he say? Usually he just puts in his mouth and he says nothing. He goes, mm, berries.

[A]

Okay, so it's like mini ad libbed.

[C]

Yeah, it's an ad lib. And you kind of go, okay. And it was just my friend Bob Foles, a terrific director from a different theater in Chicago. He came to it a couple weeks into the run. And I asked him to come and say, listen, would you mind coming? It's not good at all, but I'm hoping maybe you'll be able to say something that I can do, you know, blah, blah, blah. And Bob is very tall. He's like. At the end of the play, he kind of stood up, stretched his legs, and I was still sitting down, and he kind of bent over me and I said, well, Bob, what do you think I should do? And he goes, close it. And that's exactly.

[A]

Can I ask this question? What did you. Or the. You and. Or the people who put on this play, what point were you think you were making that was enhanced by the balls and the pussy and the asshole and this other. And this other shit. What point did you think you were making? You must have thought you were making a point, because when we're young, we want to make a point.

[C]

No, I don't think it was about that point. They were just meant to represent these naked savages.

[A]

Okay, but what is the play about?

[C]

It is about the extermination of this tribe of Indians as told through the eyes of this British diplomat. And just saying that's bad.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[C]

And it's just. Was a miserable production and failed on every level.

[A]

It should. Because it's not a deep idea. Like evil is bad. Yes, it is. Now let's say something interesting about it. I was gonna say before, when Woody Allen was here, we were having this little debate, you know, he never made a great movie. I said, I think you did. And that's why so many of your idols when you were, you know, making movies like Elia Kazan, were all your biggest fans. They wouldn't be your fans if you didn't make a great movie. He said, I never had a lofty thought. I said, lofty thoughts. First of all, there's only one. And then I know you're a Eugene o' Neill fan. He once said, and this is what I was saying to Woody Allen. The only lofty thought to me is that in Eugene o' Neill's words, a life with illusions is unpardonable and a life without illusions is unbearable. I feel like everything is a variation on saying that in an entertaining way.

[C]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Really?

[C]

I would agree. Yeah. And there is also. Damn, there's also a question. No, I think you're right. But there is also a question, I think that should exist, should be innate in good serious work, which is, how do we live that? That question, not in a pretentious way, how do we live? And does this tell me anything? And in that case, probably the play, at least my production of it, didn't tell me anything. And I think really affecting things and effective things make you reflect on how to live.

[A]

There's such a cognitive dissonance in this age because of what is going on in Washington and what is going on in the country, which you know, is so different than anything. If you're a young person, you just don't have that experience that we have that we remember normal, so we can't quite communicate to you how abnormal things really are. And yet our lives go on the same way, totally fine. So it's almost like we're in a glass bottom boat. You know we're looking at the sharks, but we're in the glass bottom boat. We're not in the water. No, we might be in the water because.

[C]

Well, of course anything could happen. But.

[A]

But you know what I mean about.

[C]

I totally agree. I don't see myself as a political person.

[A]

Good, let's not.

[C]

But I think about it like this. I would never let. And if it came to that, then I'd have to rethink it, obviously. But I'm 71. I'll be 72 in December. I don't decide my day by who's president and who isn't.

[A]

And you shouldn't.

[C]

I live my life.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I try to be the best person you can be. Be a decent person. I try to be a good colleague. I try to be a decent human being. I try to learn something I understand. I don't have many questions. Many answers to many questions. And that's all I can do.

[A]

And you're so lucky like I am, is that you not just learn, you transmit. You're in the job of transmitting what you learn. So am I, as best I can. Of course. I'm trying to tell people what I really think and what will be helpful and so forth. But you do the same thing in your art form. You know, you're. Yeah. You're putting ideas in the water.

[C]

Yeah. And you, you, you're much more daring than I am. But in, in a way, that's your job.

[A]

Yeah, it's my job.

[C]

It's your job. And. And you're.

[A]

I love my job.

[C]

Yeah. And it's a great job with all.

[A]

The shit that goes with it. A lot of. From both sides.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And it's so, and it's so worth it. It's so much. It's so. As the old ad used to go, priceless. It's so priceless to be able to say what you really think. Always.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And not worry about where the chips fall and, you know, they fall on lots of people on both sides and.

[C]

Of course. And they've fallen on you and also fall on me. Sure, it's fine.

[A]

You know, we're so lucky.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

We're just basically lucky we were born in the right country at the right time. Don't you think? We, being our age, were kind of born at a blessed time because it's before the AI and environment goes really off the rails time, which is coming, the robots taking over and it's, you know, but it's also after we had toilets and antibiotics and, you know, I feel like we were in a very favorable time.

[C]

Most favorable time, I would say, I could think of in human history. And I know I benefited completely from that. I had very solid parents. I had siblings that I loved. Most of them gone now, sadly. I grew up in a nice little town. I had great friends.

[A]

Sounds like we could have switched.

[C]

I mean, I didn't have a lot of friends. I had a lot of friends, and I still have quite a few. But that's why when I mentioned luck. So you don't get any luckier than that. Right.

[A]

It's lucky to be making our living in the arts. You realize that the arts is not under the category with humans of necessities.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

That would be like defense and getting food and shit like that. Yeah, we're definitely in the well, you won't die without it category. No, you're not gonna die without Netflix.

[C]

No. You may read a book without it.

[A]

Even books you wouldn't die?

[C]

No, even books you wouldn't die.

[A]

Water, food, sure. Barbarians attacking you.

[C]

Warmth, maybe.

[A]

Warmth, absolutely. Yes. Clubs, absolutely. Lots of stuff could kill you.

[C]

Yeah. We're not in that field, and certainly.

[A]

Not in this room.

[C]

I wouldn't want to be. No. And I'm glad I'm not. But I'm also, hopefully appreciative. I'm not.

[A]

I also wouldn't want to have been born even 100 years ago where, you know, I mean, I don't think people realize how much this country has changed in 100 years. 100 years ago, I would say I'm pulling this out of my ass. But it's apropos because I'm going to talk about toilets. Like, a fairly goodly percentage of the country did not have, like, flow toilets like on the farm there. There was 100 years ago.

[C]

Oh, God. Even when I was a kid. What? Yeah, yeah. Out in the country.

[A]

Oh, out in the country, yeah.

[C]

Ms. Burkhardt, who my grandfather referred to as Bubbles Burkhardt, used to. When the bus would let the kids from the countryside in, she would throw up the windows even with the dead of winter to kind of emphasize their stink. You know, you don't really want that in a grade school teacher, but okay. So, no, they couldn't even imagine. But that's the problem. It's really hard to imagine this. Something I find often fairly objectionable in some youth. I don't in any way say all youth, because I've had great experiences working with people who are much, much younger than me and kids, and I've met and work with some super Smart ones. A little bit dangerous to judge people now who lived a hundred years ago.

[A]

I've done 200 years of tons of shit on that.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it's really annoying. Hey, listen, you're not. I don't believe you're better. No, I don't believe. I mean, you might be smarter.

[A]

You just came later.

[C]

You just came later.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

And lots of things of great beauty or importance or bravery or humor or kindness, at least that I can say. I met wonderful people in my life, older than me, who knew more, who went to their grave knowing more, who did more important things for more important.

[A]

Well, now you're that guy. Now you're the older guy.

[C]

I'm the older guy, but I'm not.

[A]

I mean, you're running out of people who are older than us.

[C]

Yeah, well, I'm almost completely out.

[A]

But I mean.

[C]

But what I mean is, you know.

[A]

But you're not a rich.

[C]

I'll never be my father. There's no way.

[A]

You mean as good.

[C]

Yeah, no way.

[A]

Well, how was he better than you?

[C]

He was an environmentalist in the 50s when people thought he was insane. He was 82nd Airborne. He was a lot of things. He didn't give a flying shit about money. There was nothing corrupt about him.

[A]

I would say the same with my father, see?

[C]

So I go, sorry, you know.

[A]

If.

[C]

I detested myself, I would have killed myself.

[A]

They used to say about us boomers when we were kids that we were what we say now about, like, the millennials and the Gen Z, spoiled, like, just entitled, bratty, like, soft. Really soft. Because compared to our fathers, we are soft.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

It's just they got so much more soft. We're fucking Marines compared to them, a fucking. Which is so ridiculous because we're not Marines.

[C]

They were Marines.

[A]

They literally were marines or army people or whatever. They went to war, Depression, the whole nine, everything. Just like all the things and the blacks fighting for, like, you know, against fire hoses and dogs and like, it.

[C]

Just was a different attack by German shepherds for being alive, different levels for wanting to go to school.

[A]

But they said that about baby boomers and. And it's just. It never. Like, there was never any, you know, backlash. It was just more lash. Yeah, it's gonna go worse and worse and worse and worse.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Until now. They're just so fragile.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just.

[C]

It's something I tried to discourage, but it exists. And I don't know why. Like, I've often had people, you know, when I do interviews or something. My family was fairly prone to violence, and my father, who, as I mentioned, was 82nd Airborne, he would say a very simple thing, and you knew what the end result was going to be as surely as the sun came up in the east. He would say, johnny, when you pull the chain, the toilet flushes. Okay? I pulled the chain all the time and the toilet flushed. So there's no point in saying I got wet. Okay, there's no point. So I don't have any of that. Oh, I was beaten. You fucking right I was beaten. And I should have had four more for every one I got. And I didn't get a tiny amount, I got numerous ones.

[A]

Well, I can't endorse that. And I'm always.

[C]

No, I'm not saying I endorse it. I'm just saying it doesn't make me a victim.

[A]

I am someone who believes in spanking as a sort of nuclear option. That I was just talking to somebody who had a very similar experience. He said, you know, I didn't get spanked a lot. A few times. And I said, me too, me too. Like, a few times. Like, when you really commit that kind of foul that they have to let you know, not a beating. Not a beating, a spanking. But the fact that we got to this place where that was just completely verboten. That was unthinkable, and it should not be unthinkable.

[C]

Yeah, I kind of agree. I don't think it should be unthinkable, because what I've witnessed is just my personal opinion. What I've witnessed is a lot of kind of emotional blowback both to parents and in children who can. That can never be expressed, which then I think ends up creating a lot of resentment. But, you know, for me, when I was a kid, I knew if I crossed that line, I was fucked. That's it. You're fucked. And that was boom, boom, boom, it's over. I didn't really think about it.

[A]

But, you know, you actors who have your instrument, did this help you have your instrument? Or was this like, now I'm just gonna read the lines?

[C]

You know, that's a great question, but I don't think it's one I can answer in that. Like Popeye, you know, we am what we am, and that's all we am. So I can say what I would have been like as an actor if I didn't have my childhood.

[A]

But when you are that spitting, frothing assassin in the line of fire, it does make me think, now that we're Having this conversation that it would be so easy just to be like, you know, you had that sort of attitude in you for a long time probably about your father. Because I mean, even when the few times my father spanked me, I definitely hated him. Yeah, sure. Who's not gonna hate somebody who's hitting you? Yeah, sure. And it sounds like you got a lot more than I did.

[C]

Yeah, I got a decent amount.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think I hated my father at times, but mostly I loved him and I never. I'll tell you what I think was the important takeaway. He anything I did that was good, that was expected, it wasn't praised. That was a minimum my father was assigned.

[A]

That was that generation. That was how they were.

[C]

Yeah. So you get this many strikeouts? I was a pitcher. You get this many tackles. I was a football player. You do this play or that play, you do whatever it is you do.

[A]

I once had a report card with all A's and one B. And he said about that subject, he said, oh, I guess you had some hard tests in biology, huh? You know, just sort of passive aggressive. Like really nothing about the five A's?

[C]

That's right. No, no, just running pee. Yeah, yeah, well, but that. See to me that's what I think is wrong. Kind of generationally it seems to me, and I've been in fault of it too, that you always say, that was superb. That was fantastic. You're beautiful, you're funny. That's great. What a beautiful drawing. Yada yada. I don't know if that's good for kids.

[A]

It's not.

[C]

It's locked.

[A]

No, no, no. It's not locked.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

Oh, it is so hard to get good help Club Random.

[B]

Whether it's in Drive, Dropbox Slack or that folder called ugh, Dropbox Dash finds it fast. Smart search built for messy humans. Learn more at Dropbox.com/.

[A]

Hey, this is Sarah.

[C]

Look, I'm standing out front of AM.

[A]

PM right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling. Even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure, you met some of my dietary.

[C]

Needs, but they've just got it all.

[A]

So farewell Oatmeal, the long use train.

[C]

Break up with bland breakfast and taste.

[A]

AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with cage free eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. AM P M. Too much good stuff.