Lisa Kudrow | Club Random Classics with Bill Maher

Summary

Club Random with Bill Maher: Lisa Kudrow | Club Random Classics

Release Date: March 19, 2026
Host: Bill Maher
Guest: Lisa Kudrow

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Episode Overview

This episode is a vibrant, engaging deep-dive into the life, career, and worldview of Lisa Kudrow—acclaimed actor, comedian, and star of "Friends" and "The Comeback". Free from political talk, Bill Maher and Kudrow drift through showbiz history, personal anecdotes, the evolution of comedy, backstage sitcom drama, and their shared fascination with history and medicine. In classic Club Random style, the atmosphere is unfiltered and intimate, punctuated by wit, self-deprecation, and genuine admiration between host and guest.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Chemistry and Setting the Scene

• Bill Maher and Lisa Kudrow open with playful banter about hugging, pandemic-era habits, and an instant comfort in Maher’s home studio.

  • "Can you still hear the Omicron?" (01:02, Maher)
  • “No, I don't hug because of Omicron.” (01:04, Kudrow)

• Both riff on the nostalgia of old TV shows and their parents' crushes and tastes, with Maher recalling, “My mother had such a pussy boner for Dean Martin...” (01:24).

The Art of Not Knowing (and Making Things Up)

• Kudrow riffs on the supposed history of clove cigarettes, admitting her ignorance but spinning a plausible story.

  • Maher: “Make it up.” (04:11)
  • Kudrow: “Tobacco was for export, so they couldn't afford to let regular folks smoke.” (04:14)

• They both reflect on the sheer volume of things unknown in life and the humility required to accept it.

  • “Even the smartest person does not even know 0.1%.” (04:54, Maher)

Drinking, Genetics, and Physical Typecasting

• Maher talks about his Irish heritage and how it affected both his drinking habits and appearance.
• They discuss the Kennedy brothers, with Kudrow fixated on their teeth:
  • “None of the Kennedys are my type... Because of their teeth.” (08:39, Kudrow)

Childhood, Religion, and Cultural Identity

• Maher reflects on his Catholic upbringing and the trauma from nuns, explaining he didn’t realize his mother was Jewish until he was 13.

  • Maher: “I never even knew [my mom was Jewish] until I was 13 because I was so traumatized by going to church.” (13:53)

• Both reflect on the cultural friction of interfaith marriages in mid-20th century America and how that era’s prejudices bled into pop culture and personal life.

History, Guilt, and Progress

• The conversation turns to how societies grapple with the wrongs of their past, notably slavery and women’s rights.
  • Maher: “History is very much like humans. It's like looking at your own life and going, what a dick I was at 8.” (16:06)
  • Kudrow: “I think it's really important to know our history and understand how it informed how our society works and what was tolerated.” (17:02)

Healthcare: Holistic, Corporate, and Changing Paradigms

• Shared frustration with America’s unhealthy culture and how the medical system, influenced by corporate incentives, is falling short.

  • Maher: “The people are just so incredibly unhealthy to begin with.” (21:02)
  • Kudrow: “I'm starting to hear more and more about personalized medicine…” (22:17)

• A humorous, skeptical look at wellness fads—colonics, colon health, and the tension between ‘natural’ and not-so-natural remedies.

• Both criticize the persistent uncertainty of medicine and the arrogance often found within the medical establishment.

  • “Just don't give me the attitude of just do what we say. Because when have we ever been wrong?” (25:20, Maher)

The Realities of Sitcom Writing

• Kudrow and Maher swap stories about the behind-the-scenes chaos of sitcom production—including writing room politics, actors improvising lines, and the infamous cycles of network notes ("put a kid in the show" trope).

  • Maher: “There was a neighbor with a kid. So they could get a kid in the show, but that was sort of shoehorning because kids always make shows fly.” (34:50)
  • Kudrow: “But you have to have great kids. I mean, Roseanne had great kids.” (35:07)

• Both reveal youthful faux pas in Hollywood, like Maher’s misstep in early auditions:

  • “Who wrote this shit?” (41:55, Maher, on his early ignorance of producers-as-writers)

The Comeback & Women in Power

• Maher confesses his fandom for Kudrow’s series "The Comeback," and they delve deeply into why the show resonated more with some audiences than others.

  • Maher: “If I never told you how big a fan I was of the Comeback... Today would be the time.” (29:44)
  • Kudrow shares a revelation sparked by Maher’s comment on comedy and victimhood—that audiences weren’t used to seeing a woman as the flawed, humiliated lead.
    • “We don’t have a point of reference for a woman in that role.... That’s what it is.” (45:44, Kudrow)

• They dissect the subtleties of the show’s humor and how not everyone “gets it”—a recurring theme in both their careers.

    - Maher: “That’s what was relatable... We’ve all been the person who thinks they’re going to be cast as the young, hot one, not literally, but in life, but really is going to be the shrumpy aunt with the catchphrase.” (75:18)
  

Entertainment’s Role and Their Creative Philosophies

• Both reiterate the necessity and value of pure entertainment as a societal balm, even as entertainers themselves have intellectual and philosophical ambitions.
  • Maher: “If I’m not entertaining, I’m nothing.” (51:17)
  • Kudrow: “I think everyone needs a break. That’s what everyone wants really badly. They really want a break.” (52:26)

On Aging, Technology, and Acceptance

• A light detour on smartwatches and technology as Maher references Ray Kurzweil’s prediction of the coming “singularity”—the merging of humans and machines.
  • Maher: “If I could just keep my brain and my dick. The rest of it—you could fucking replace.” (57:31)

History Buffs and Academia

• Both share their academic backgrounds and mutual love of history, poking fun at the jaded cynicism of academia and the changing interpretations of historical knowledge.
  • Kudrow: “Evolutionary biology was what I was interested in.” (62:55)

Humanity’s Dark Side & Animal Ethics

• The two reflect on the brutality of human history, our impact on other species, and how those lessons were sometimes taught through television, such as "The Andy Griffith Show" episode about Opie killing a bird.

The Toxic Side of Showbiz

• A frank discussion about the high-wire tension and toxicity on some TV and film sets, but also the shift toward more professional, respectful environments:

  • Maher: “I've never seen any sort of set where there wasn’t some sort of blow-up or people going nuts.” (69:01)

  • Kudrow: “It doesn’t have to be an angry energy.” (69:56)

  • They close by considering whether talent and instability are linked in the business, with Maher wryly noting: “Insanity photographs.” (70:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Maher, on knowledge and humility:
  “Even the smartest person does not even know 0.1%.” (04:54)

• Kudrow, on women in flawed roles:
  “We don’t have a point of reference for a woman in that role.... That’s what it is.” (45:44)

• Maher, on “The Comeback”:
  “That was a genius show. And I am not an easy complimenter. And I don't bullshit.” (29:53)

• Kudrow, on resilience in “The Comeback”:
  “No, she just kept saying, yeah, I clocked that. I won’t have it. I’m gonna create my own reality. Here we go.” (76:11)

• Maher, on Hollywood writing rooms:
  “Who wrote this shit?” (41:55)

• Kudrow, on entertainment’s need:
  “I think everyone needs a break. That's what everyone wants really badly. They really want a break.” (52:26)

• Maher, on the wildness of showbiz:
  “Insanity photographs.” (70:39)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:00 | Playful intro, Omicron jokes, and instant chemistry | | 04:10 | Kudrow makes up “clove cigarette history”; reflections on ignorance and humility | | 07:03 | Physical typecasting, genetics, and discussing the Kennedys | | 13:00 | Childhood trauma, Catholic/Jewish family, and interfaith taboos | | 16:06 | Discussing the folly of judging the past by today’s morals | | 21:02 | Critique of American healthcare and unhealthy culture | | 29:44 | Maher showers praise on “The Comeback” | | 34:50 | The “we need a kid in the show” sitcom trope explored | | 41:55 | Maher's infamous “who wrote this shit?” audition story | | 45:44 | Kudrow’s revelation on women as flawed leads and audience discomfort | | 51:17 | The philosophy of entertainment: “If I’m not entertaining, I’m nothing.” | | 57:31 | Technology, the singularity, and what parts to keep if you're a cyborg | | 62:55 | Kudrow on her early interest in evolutionary biology | | 66:07 | “Andy Griffith Show,” ethics, and influential TV lessons | | 69:01 | Showbiz tension; dealing with difficult personalities on set | | 75:18 | The poignancy and universality of “The Comeback”’s themes |

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Episode Mood & Final Thoughts

Lightly chaotic, nostalgic, wise, and witty—the episode balances Hollywood war stories with genuine philosophical musings about progress, medicine, and human nature. Both Maher and Kudrow demonstrate humility and humor in equal measure, making this an episode that is as layered as its stars are accomplished. Their rapport is strong—marked by teasing, admiration, and the unmistakable feeling that in the end, they both just want to make the world a bit more bearable and a lot more interesting, one joke and one insight at a time.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

screen in our next episode at Club Random Classics, revisit my conversation with the one and only Lisa Kudrow. You know we're from Friends, but you haven't heard the audition story. So awkward it almost ended her career. We dig into sitcom madness, jaw dropping backstage stories, and a surprisingly deep chat about acting. I even confess which Lisa series I secretly love. And it isn't what you think.

[A]

Club Randall.

[B]

Oh, wait, we're not supposed to hug because of the mics. Can you still hear the Omicron?

[A]

I said, oh, no, I don't hug because of Omicron. And then I forgot.

[B]

Full of monkeypox. No, that's the old Dean Martin show where he didn't know who the guest was. Do you remember that?

[A]

No.

[B]

You don't? You don't remember the Dean Martin show? No. Really? Really young for that.

[A]

Well, I might be a little. Unless my parents watched it. I don't think they did.

[B]

I bet you your mother did. My mother had such a pussy boner for Dean Martin in that show. He was a very attractive guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And of course, that character he played, sort of a character who was, like, drunk. He really wasn't drunk, but he did really.

[A]

Oh, he really wasn't ever?

[B]

No.

[A]

Really?

[B]

But he really did only show up for the taping. So he had these three broads called the Gold Diggers. Something you would know.

[A]

Wait, no, that sounds familiar.

[B]

Yes. And they would leave, literally lead him and prop him up in front of the card, which he would read and fuck up, which made it funnier.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

You know, and there was one section of the show where he didn't. He walked. It was at the piano with his piano guy tinkling. And it was like. And the door would open. It's Ella Fitzgerald or it's Sammy Davis. He had no idea. I really think that was true. I did know. I mean, I've been asking from the beginning. I said, if I could get you here. What hipper person For?

[A]

Come on.

[B]

What? I'm your biggest.

[A]

Really?

[B]

You didn't. Why? Why would you think I wouldn't want you? I mean, I would never want anyone here, first of all, in my house, who I didn't adore.

[A]

Oh, my God, I'm so happy to hear that.

[B]

Well, why didn't you come?

[A]

Big disappointment. Well, disappointment, no, because I'm in awe of you.

[B]

Oh, I adore you.

[A]

Good.

[B]

See, that's what.

[A]

But I don't assume it's a two way street.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

I live in the real world.

[B]

Oh, no, this is my home. This is. I mean, I don't know. This is only for this whole thing. I mean, I did spend. Yeah.

[A]

Are you liking it?

[B]

Oh, my God. I mean, look, I'm not gonna lie. I spent quite a bit of money so that we could, you know, set this place. I mean, it's almost like a reality show combined with a podcast. But that's the way I wanted it, so that we could have, you know, I mean, there's a lot of podcasts and I find them. Some are great, but they're. You know, there's a big penis mic in your face.

[A]

I haven't done that one.

[B]

You know what I mean? There's a giant.

[A]

I've done the one with the big flat flower in your face.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

Vagina.

[B]

Yeah, I've seen those, too.

[A]

I went too far. I went too well out of.

[B]

Just to be, like, the way I really am. Except there's no music that always. You know. Of course we can't while we're talking, but it just feels like there is something missing and everything else feels right. It's just us. There's nobody else in the room. There's liquor and these clove cigarettes. I don't know what they're putting in these things, but let me tell you, these are.

[A]

It's too bad you're not allowed to know.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's the surprise.

[B]

Well, cloves. I know you're a history buff. Do you know anything about the history of cloves?

[A]

No.

[B]

Well, make it up.

[A]

Me, make it up?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, okay. Well, tobacco was for export, so they couldn't afford to let regular folks smoke.

[B]

Isn't that interesting?

[A]

But that sounded possible, right?

[B]

So incredibly real. Like, if you had. If I had not set it up, like, make it up, I would have just gone with it.

[A]

I could make up anything.

[B]

Yeah, many of us could. You know, when the kids feel bad about not knowing shit, I always try to comfort them by saying, you know, we all don't know. Like, I mean, when you think of the infinite amount of things that you could possibly know in this world, even the smartest person does not even know 0.1%.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah. We're almost fully ignorant of everything what we, you know, obviously some people more than others.

[A]

Well, no. And then the things you learn, you don't remember, so. That's too bad.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

That part's really too bad.

[B]

I think that has something to do with the clothes. I don't know. I can't make a direct correlation, but.

[A]

Well, you know now, but. Well, no, they're doing studies with clothes and cognition.

[B]

Can I make you a drink or.

[A]

No, I have water.

[B]

That's all you want?

[A]

Yeah, I know it's five o'. Clock. You're abstemious, so it's okay.

[B]

It's five o' clock somewhere. Oh, wait, here. Are you abstemious?

[A]

Yeah, I don't drink a lot. I mean, you said abstemious, so I thought, okay.

[B]

Oh, abstemious.

[A]

Absteiming. Abstaining. Abstainious.

[B]

You say abstemious. Doesn't that mean you. Yeah, you're.

[A]

Are you. No.

[B]

With drinking. The only time I drink, really is here.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yes. I used to drink, you know, like an Irishman. I was never a drunk, although I certainly have been drunk many times. But I drank Irishly, you know, which is not good for your liver, I'm sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, I don't want to be. Look like Ted Kennedy, you know, so I, you know, especially now that he's dead. But even before, you know, that kind of. No, it takes a toll, especially if you're Irish.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Well, sure, because you're lighter, you know, it's like the opposite of black. Don't crack cracks.

[A]

The most European. All Europeans are pretty white,

[B]

but more so the. Well, like the beautiful people of the Nordic countries somehow are even further north. But they have that beautiful olive skin usually. They do, yes. Olive, yes.

[A]

Wait, why doesn't that sound even a little bit right to me? You mean the like blond Scandinavian.

[B]

Yes, Scandinavian. Of course. They don't look like the Gaelic people. My people. They're not ruddy.

[A]

Wait a minute.

[B]

What's ruddy?

[A]

What is ruddy? What's ruddy?

[B]

Ruddy is red.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ready?

[A]

That's what I thought.

[B]

Well, that's. Think of somebody like, you know, Ted Kennedy.

[A]

Yeah, right. I'll throw a name out.

[B]

But not Jack Kennedy. But not Jack Kennedy. He looked more.

[A]

Well, he had makeup always.

[B]

He was just a good looking guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's funny how in families sometimes there's just, you know, siblings. And one of them is the good looking one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, Bobby.

[A]

Well, he was good looking.

[B]

Not like Jack. He was a little.

[A]

Was he that good looking, though?

[B]

He was just. He was sexier because he was grittier, I guess.

[A]

Not my type, I think.

[B]

That's not your type?

[A]

No. A Jack Kennedy. No. But a Bobby Kennedy was a little cuter to me.

[B]

Physically cuter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

See, most people would say. Not that they would say the reverse.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I even think that you're, you know, as a woman who are deeper and feel things on a deeper level. Well, it's true, especially in this subject. It's like the physical part is not as important to you. I think something about Bobby Kennedy is getting to you in your deep woman

[A]

way, maybe, but here I'm misled. I was just comparing. But none of the Kennedys are my type.

[B]

None of the Kennedys?

[A]

No. No.

[B]

Because of their look or because of their actions?

[A]

Their teeth.

[B]

Their teeth? No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's wrong with their teeth?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

That's the British who have the bad teeth.

[A]

No, it's not that they had bad teeth, but I didn't like their teeth. I just didn't like it. I don't, uh. No, you didn't. They all looked like.

[B]

And did this inflect, I mean, infect your view of their politics? No, no.

[A]

Well, I was. Well, I was.

[B]

You wouldn't not vote for someone good to their teeth, Lisa Kudrow, would you?

[A]

Well, I don't like Bill Clinton's teeth. No, but I. No, but I was. I was born when John Kennedy was killed.

[B]

63.

[A]

Yeah, I was so then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was five when Bobby Kennedy was killed. So. No, no. I mean, I didn't have politics about them, but my parents were huge fans, so.

[B]

Her mind. Yeah, but this means my father again, Irish Catholic and, you know, I mean, and my father, my grandfather had a full brogue.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. I never met where he was from. No, but he was, I guess, second

[A]

generation, raised with everybody. Yeah. So he.

[B]

But this is, I mean, a man I never met. But it's funny, if I had done your show instead of Skip Gates show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We would have already.

[A]

You did. Did I see it? I watch all of the shows, I guess I don't remember them. When did you do it?

[B]

I would say four years ago.

[A]

Oh, shoot.

[B]

Something like that.

[A]

I'll rewatch it. I was like, I'll rewatch it.

[B]

I mean, but I should do that. Your show was fantastic. I mean, it's a great idea for a show. And the way you make it.

[A]

I wish it were my idea.

[B]

As a history major, I appreciate that.

[A]

Oh, you're a history major?

[B]

I was in college.

[A]

Yeah. You know, that's a lot more.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I know. I.

[A]

Everyone learns in high school, right?

[B]

I love history and I love when you weave it in.

[A]

Yeah, no, because that's why I loved this show. Cause it's history. But it's the personal stories that drive it home.

[B]

It's the actual effects of history.

[A]

Like, why can't they teach it?

[B]

But when I did his show, my genealogy for Skip, I mean, the star of it was my grandfather, who, again, I never met, but he was a. He was a baller. He was a macho guy. He ran the boatsman's union.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

In New Jersey and New York. You know, the Circle dayline of the stuff that went around Manhattan. This is in the days when the Irish ran New York.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Every cop, every fireman, you know, officers. Officer Mike. Yeah. So.

[A]

And this isn't part of the Teamsters because that's. It's Buzz.

[B]

No, no, that's truck. It's nautical. Yeah, this is nautical.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it was also what happened, I guess, on the ports, because he had a headline from 1920 and it was. My grandfather called a strike and was brought up to the White House because it had to be settled because this was the port of New York.

[A]

Oh. Yeah.

[B]

But he was a union captain who got in the days when, I mean, they. What unions had to fight for back then was like, you know, yeah, we would like a 14 hour work day and we're not.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you could only whip them if that. You know, it was just crazy what he had to fight for.

[A]

And you don't get to choose who we marry. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Crazy shit. So that was my grandfather. Wow. William Marr, also. I would have been William Mar III if I had been confirmed in the Catholic Church, because I would have been William Aloysius Marr. That was my grandfather's name and my father's name. And I was supposed to be William Aloysius Marr. But you get your middle name and your confirmation, the Catholics. And I never made it that far.

[A]

I didn't know that. Yeah, but you're still. That's not your given name. Like the birth certificate doesn't say, I

[B]

have no mental name. Cause you're supposed to get it at 13. You're supposed to get it at 13 when you confirmed that's A big thing in the Catholic Church. At 7, you have your first communion. That traumatized me. Like, I can't even tell you. And then 13, you're confirmed. I don't know what. So just like the bar mitzvah.

[A]

Why did it traumatize him?

[B]

What? You know, nuns. Fucking sadists. And, you know, they were.

[A]

Well, of course, some of them are nice. I assume on Trouble with Angels. They were really nice.

[B]

But I mean, well, nuns are married to Christ and apparently he's not putting out because they have a kind of anger issues that you only get when you've never been laid. I don't know what it was. And I was 7 years old. All I know is one of them, one day, for example, this one sticks in my mind. Said, we're in the church and they're doing their shit up there. And I guess I was like, you know. And she said, the boy who's slumping is going to go to hell.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

They did shit like that.

[A]

Wait a minute. Okay, but I thought your mom. Your mom is Jewish, right?

[B]

That I never even knew until I was 13 because I was so traumatized by going to church. I didn't even think, why doesn't mom come? I don't know. She just never does. It never crossed my mind to ask. I just wanted to get out of it.

[A]

But I thought it was tricky for a Catholic to marry a Jew.

[B]

It was. Especially.

[A]

How did that all happen?

[B]

Especially in 1951 when they did it. It was like an interracial marriage. Not even today, but like 20 years ago.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it was in the 60s, too. And even into the 70s, it was sort of starting to get like, wow,

[B]

did you watch Mad Men?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Remember the first season or second? There was a plot line of he goes out with the girl from the Jewish department store.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, they had their own Jews. Had their own department store or owned

[A]

a very successful department store.

[B]

Right. But I mean, like, I think Gimbel's. The real Gimbels. Was that. Yeah, I think in a day when.

[A]

Oh, so I'm just saying.

[B]

How fucking. Yeah. Well, just the idea that this was the early 60s and Gentiles and Jews shopped separately. Department.

[A]

Wait, I wasn't aware of that. I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure, History major?

[B]

I'm not sure that a Jew couldn't walk into Macy's. Macy's. Macy's. I guess so.

[A]

At Bloomdale.

[B]

Yes. But it seemed to me like he was cross. Like he was, of course, cheating on his wife as he Always was. But also he was sort of like crossing into a different world, the way they sort of presented it. And I think people don't realize how much Jew and gentile, you know, I mean, when Kennedy ran in 60, it was a big deal that he was Catholic, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

This country is always changing as people are always changing and growing and.

[A]

And getting used to each other's differences progressing.

[B]

These people who cannot help themselves from looking backward and saying, you know what? You people were so benighted back then, and you know what? If you had lived back then with us, you would have been the same asshole.

[A]

Right?

[B]

History is very much like humans. It's like looking at your own life and going, what a dick I was at 8. I can't believe I spent all that time thinking about baseball cards. Dumbass. You know, it's childish.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right? Yeah, but what's childish? But what part's childish?

[B]

I mean, the childish part is making. Is feeling superior. Oh, you are woker now, but it's not. You are better. You just are living in a different time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You would have been just like us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We all wore big hair in the 80s.

[A]

Yeah, right. Yeah. I don't know if my hair was that big, but. Because, you know, I wasn't that in step. But. Yeah, no, no, it's true.

[B]

You're not in step. You mean you were with big hair.

[A]

It wasn't the look of it, but

[B]

in general, you were an outsider.

[A]

You say I was a. Yeah, a little moody. You know, I'm so. Yeah, a little bit moody. You know, in doing 80s. Yeah. Starting groundlings and figuring out my comedic voice and, you know, all of that was the most important thing ever. So that's all I was thinking about. I really didn't want to look like absolutely everybody else because I didn't think I'd do well if I was trying to. But no, but I mean, getting back to what you were saying, though, because I was talking about this like in the context of who do you think you are? Because we're going to be on soon. And I was saying, you know, I think it's really important to know our history and understand how it informed how our society works and what was tolerated. You know, there were people. People thought it was perfectly okay to own another human being. You know, that's.

[B]

But, you know, let's have some context to that. They thought that everywhere in the world.

[A]

Yeah, but not 30 years after everywhere else in the world stopped doing it. You're talking about America in The south and in America.

[B]

In the South America, we have brought up the rear on a number of issues. Yeah, that's one of them. 80 countries I think have had a woman. Oh, we have not, you know, universal health care. Most of the big boy countries have a much better system, you know.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Nothing is perfect in that realm.

[A]

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People track their steps, their sleep, their screen time. But blood pressure, well, we treat it like that old can of tuna in the pantry. If I don't check it, it's probably fine. Meanwhile, it's the number one risk factor out there. Just quietly doing damage with the manners of a librarian. And like most families, our staff has relatives dealing with it. You hit a certain age and suddenly everyone owns a home monitor and starts taking their sodium intake very seriously. That's why there's 120 life. It's just a once a day functional drink that helps support healthy blood pressure. Not a pill, not a stimulant, not some trendy bio hack. It actually tastes good. Super fruit juice, refreshing. And the powdered version's got 1 gram of sugar so it's easy to stick with. You drink it, check your numbers and a lot of people see improvement in as little as two weeks. No drama, no mystery, just results. Imagine that. Go to 120life.com, that's 120life.com and use my code random for 20% off. Try it risk free for two weeks. If your blood pressure doesn't come down, you get a full refund. Again, 120Life.com code random. These statements have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose or treat, cure or prevent any disease. But and don't get me started, but

[A]

remember when medicine wasn't a. Wasn't big business because that in the 70s it wasn't. It was still like the healing arts.

[B]

Well we, I mean healthcare is a mess in this country for many reasons, but the top two probably would be for me. Yes, the corporate element of it. The fact that a hospital is run very much like an airline. They don't want to any empty seats on an airplane and they don't want any empty beds. That's why when there's a crisis, they're overrun. They should have excess like space, but that would hurt the bottom line. So that's huge. And the other huge thing I think is that the people, the people are just so incredibly unhealthy to begin with. And that is absolutely something I lay at the doorstep of the medical establishment who doesn't have the balls to tell them what's. What they should and shouldn't do. And, of course, how cozy the pharmaceutical industry is with the medical industry. And I mean, I'm not saying it's all corruption. I mean, obviously Covid was a real thing, and I have many qualms about how we handled it, but, I mean, that's not anybody's fault. But if the population wasn't so fundamentally unhealthy to begin with, it would not have devastated this country the way it did. We had a worse outcome than any other country.

[A]

Oh, we did. Yes, it turns out that we did.

[B]

Proportionally, I think so. Yeah. I mean, I seem to remember that headline a couple of months ago. I mean, I'm sure there are variations in per capita and blah, blah, blah, but, I mean, it was over a million people. And of course, that's a fuzzy stat also, because they don't really make any differentiation between dying of COVID and dying with COVID And anyone with medical sophistication understands everything in medicine is a combination of factors.

[A]

I'm starting to hear more and more about personalized medicine. Like a doctor who's practicing personalized medicine.

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

So that not just going by looking into what else about your physical makeup and your biology might be contributing to whatever symptoms or what's going on instead of just treating the symptoms. Well, yeah. I mean, or calling it this disease, not that syndrome, because there's other things informing it.

[B]

I mean, that's a lot of holistic medicine. What I would call holistic medicine.

[A]

Right. Well, that's. Now they're calling it personalized medicine. They don't want to sound.

[B]

Right. They don't want to sound like hippies.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That word got right. That's quack stuff.

[A]

Right. You're not allowed to say that.

[B]

I mean, some of it is. I'll tell you an interesting thing about. And I have had a holistic doctor who I think changed my life as much as anybody. And I'm very grateful. He absolutely knows that I don't agree with everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I also definitely want a MD doctor also. I think you need both to balance.

[A]

Yeah. Well, you might get more information, too, that you can decide about.

[B]

So, like, you know, I started to get into it. This is like almost 20 years ago. And, you know, everything is super natural, which I totally get that. I remember the first time we went out socially. There was one restaurant in all of la. He would go to that was pure enough.

[A]

Wait, who would.

[B]

This is my holistic doctor.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So, like. And, you know, he just wouldn't have anything, you know, no bread, no down the line, natural, natural, natural. No antibiotics, of course, no pharmaceuticals, no this, no that, no sugar, nothing. But then very big on colonics.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Which may or may not.

[A]

I remember that trend.

[B]

I don't think it's a trend. I think. But point being, like, if you're like, natural, natural, natural. When you think about sticking water up your ass, the word that comes to mind is not natural. It's not like if I was just standing around with a garden hose in my hand, I would absentmindedly just stick it up my ass, you know? So for everything to be natural, natural, natural. And also stick water up your ass.

[A]

No, no. It's not something that naturally occurs. Right.

[B]

But it also might be very good for you.

[A]

I don't know if it's really good for you.

[B]

Nobody knows anything for sure in medicine.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I'm always trying to push this point.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Just. You know what? I accept where we are. I have to. What could I do else? We're in the year 2022. In 2052, they're not going to look back and go, boy, in 2022, we pretty much had it all figured out medically, didn't we? We were just crossing the T's and dotting the I's.

[A]

They're going to do what they do every seven years, which is. Yeah, we were wrong about.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That.

[B]

That's what I was saying. Just don't give me the attitude of just do what we say. Because when have we ever been wrong?

[A]

Right.

[B]

All the time.

[A]

All the time. All the time.

[B]

And it's not mostly your fault. It's just, again, like the year we live in.

[A]

No, but just be honest.

[B]

Be honest.

[A]

We don't really know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But what's recommended? And there's some studies that show this might work. They're associative studies, not cause and effect, so we can't know. Absolutely. But here's all I have to offer. Yeah, go for it. But don't say like they did. No, honey, for your pregnancy, you need to take Des for, you know, you're pregnant and we need. You're nauseous, so you'll just take des, this estrogen that caused all kinds of reproductive problems in the kids that were born.

[B]

Did you take it?

[A]

No, no, not me. I mean, my mom's generation. Your mom's generation. And, you know, I do know a lot of people who have reproductive problems because of it.

[B]

But they gave it to all the women back then.

[A]

No, but they were offering it a lot, right? Just like in the 20s they were offering women. Offering, insisting. Yeah, you need some opium. I mean, we have to give you because you're hysterical. You're going through the change and you're hysterical. Or you just had a baby, so you're hysterical.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And yet all these people. It's the same crisis we're having. And we had it in the twenties, it all happened. And then the government made it illegal and they went to heroin. You had the exact same problem. We just repeated history.

[B]

And in 100 years, this will be the 20s that they're talking about in the same attitude that we're talking about the 1920s. Things will seem incredibly primitive in their thinking and just very wrong. I mean, simple things like they very often misdiagnose fungal infections for bacterial infections. They treat everything with antibiotics. First of all, there's a lot of money in it. But it's also just where like they're not. I'm not saying they're trying to be corrupt. It's just like.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Well, I don't know, you know, some

[A]

of the trying to make money.

[B]

Well, yes, and also.

[A]

But the doctors are just trying to give you the best information they have.

[B]

Yes, and also they listen to the patients too much. You know, ask your doctor. We're only one of two countries that has direct to consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals. So you should never be like, hey doc, could I get some of that? Sure. The cute rep from the pharmaceutical company was by this afternoon and she strutted her ass in here and winked at me. And I bought a whole passel of this and they're taking me on this cruise in a couple of months. You know, that shit goes on with doctors.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And so. And it's very easy just to pass out antibiotics and Vicodin and especially if you're one of these low rent. You know, I certainly have heard the stories from people who go to the one on the corner in the, you know, urgent care. And it's like, I've heard harrowing stories. Just terrible decisions that these people are making because they don't care. They're not really your doctor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I mean, it's like I know my mechanic better than them, you know, so look at me.

[A]

Uh huh. I don't, I don't know anyone.

[B]

But you just did like a. You right there, you did that like you were reading a line. And that's why you're so good.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Disingenuous, your line. You know, I've never seen you in any where you didn't kill it. Thank you. Yeah. It's so funny the way you, like, you know, you never seem to want to be out front. You just want to, like, be the one who steals it, and you always do.

[A]

Oh, I just want to be the one who steals it. That would be funny. That's what I tell my agents. No, just find me something where I can steal it. Oh, yeah.

[B]

And I don't know when the last time I saw you, but. Because, you know, these clothes. But, like, if I never told you how big a fan I was of the Comeback. Oh, you are. Today would be the time. Really? We never talked about that.

[A]

I don't think so. I don't know. I have secondary clove issues.

[B]

And the reboot.

[A]

Oh, fuck. Thank you. I'm most proud of that.

[B]

You should be. That was a genius show.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And I am not an easy complimenter. And I don't bullshit. That's why I don't have people who I don't like, because I'm not a good liar. So I can't, like, pretend, you know, that I'm really into, you know, Danny Bonaduce. I'm sorry, Danny, if you're listening, actually, I'd love to have you on. I guess I have to say that now, but, you know, I like Danny Bonaduce. I do. Of course. God damn it. Why can't we get him on this show? Well, but the Comeback was. Yeah, that was just Thanks. I mean, I saw them all multiple times.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. Yeah, the.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Just everybody was, you know, that. The actor. I don't know his name. I don't think I ever did. Who played the heavyset writer? Producer. Who was mean to you?

[A]

Yeah, I've seen Lance. Yeah, he's on Young Sheldon. He plays the father now. Oh, yeah. He finally. You know, people thought. Stop thinking. He's really mean.

[B]

I was just gonna say barber. He was so good. Good. And there was something about that show that was so real. And of course, I lived that world of sitcoms, too, you know, but it wasn't that. I mean, it is universal.

[A]

But were you on writing staffs?

[B]

No. Not on sitcoms.

[A]

No.

[B]

No. So I know that tension with the writing, especially when you're a comedian and they kind of hired you for. To be funny and they did use a lot of. I was on that show, Sarah. Do you remember that? With Geena Davis? Oh, it was 1985. NBC. Not that much before you ran your run 10 years?

[A]

Yeah, 85. 94 we started.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But wait, so they would encourage you to pitch lines and alternatives and stuff?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And they used them?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it made their job easier, but they also could be insulting.

[A]

I do appreciate that, though. When they do a lot, that means that they really do want the best show. So it doesn't matter where it comes from. Cause I think it's a bigger disaster when their ego gets in the way of wherever the great line comes from. What do you care?

[B]

But I was 28 and stupid, and this is my first job, and I didn't sometimes get it. Like, one time, I remember the first run through. We always, you know, on the Mondays, I remember that whole schedule, you know, you just.

[A]

The read through.

[B]

Right. And then the first time they see it on its feet, what? They wrote their first draft and, like, I had changed lines. And I remember Gary David Goldberg saying to me, could we hear ours once?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, before you tell me it's shit.

[A]

I was told that, too.

[B]

Can we hear ours once?

[A]

You're right. But they're enough. They work so hard.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Give them their thing and then pitch your thing.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

It's easy courtesy. It's easy.

[B]

That's why it sucks being young. There's good reasons why it's great.

[A]

Well, young, you're trying to prove yourself,

[B]

and you're stupid, and you're stupid, and

[A]

you're stupid, and it's just.

[B]

It was just fucking stupid.

[A]

And it's just. I gotta know. You gotta know that I've got good ideas before you. I don't have the opportunity to tell you. You don't know that. I do. Yeah.

[B]

It's stupid Gary David Goldberg, who got that show canceled because he had a shoving match with Brandon Tartikoff at a taping.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So he could be volatile and I could have set him off. And he was always nice to me. He never. Like, for whatever reason, sometimes you're so young and dumb that they know that they can't really hold it against you because it's like blaming the dog, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Or they don't care. Which is worse.

[B]

He cared. But, yeah, that show got canceled when there was this shoving match. Can you believe that? Between. He was, at the time, one of the most powerful producers in television.

[A]

But was it a good show, Sarah?

[B]

You know, it was what a sitcom in the 80s was. I think it was a little above average. It did pretty well in the ratings.

[A]

Oh, wow. So that is what, you know, Gina

[B]

Was coming off a couple of movies. She was a very rising. Alfre Woodard.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And Bronson Pinchot were the other three. We were four lawyers in San Francisco. They felt after like half the episodes we needed a boss.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So then they brought in a boss figure. You know how they thought the network

[A]

those kind of notes and they made friends. Get an adult, really nice, good actor.

[B]

We're just children. And they have to like discipline. Hire someone to play the part of someone who keeps us in order.

[A]

Right. So God bless Martin and David. Like, all right, we'll try. But yeah, yeah.

[B]

And there was a neighbor with a kid. So they could get a kid in the show, but that was sort of

[A]

shoehorning because kids always make shows fly.

[B]

You had to. Well, I guess they did. Because for the longest time, didn't every show have to have a kid? I remember.

[A]

Yeah, but you have to have great kids. I mean, Roseanne had great kids. Sara Gilbert was so great. And they were great, those kids. They were really, truly funny.

[B]

I remember after I did that sitcom and then I did a one on Showtime called Hard Knocks.

[A]

Oh yeah, that sounds familiar.

[B]

And then I did one with Sam Kinison in 1990 and then really. Yeah. Was very short lived and he was on heroin. So it didn't really work.

[A]

Shoot.

[B]

But should have been called Shoot.

[A]

God Rest. So that's not about.

[B]

But I remember there was also a period there like 89, 90, 91 when I was like. I'd done a few of these sitcoms so I was like pitching. I was at that point where you pitch your own sometimes and you know they would. You get the notes. And I had a deal with Fox. I remember I went to the. Something they had like where they were showing the advertisers their new shows or some shit.

[A]

Yeah, the upfront.

[B]

Yeah, but it wasn't. Must have been like some of them weren't picked up yet. Okay, this was one of them.

[A]

Would you buy ads for this?

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was one of those.

[B]

And apparently they were like, no, we would not. We would not sell toothpaste. It was called Bill Gets a Life. And really I couldn't make that up. And yeah, they were like, there was that. You need a kid discussion for you.

[A]

Yes, for Bill Gets a Life. Bill Maher needs a kid in the show.

[B]

It was just like, we work for the network. They're paying us. We have to pretend we know something and are doing something.

[A]

So wait, did you write it too?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You were. Did you write the pilot?

[B]

I worked. It was Gary Shandling had a production deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we had the same manager. And so like, it was. We. We worked on it together. The pilot.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then, I mean, I wrote a bunch of other episodes just hoping they would pick it up, but they didn't. But of course, it was never my calling. As it is, was yours to act.

[A]

Yeah. Well. Well.

[B]

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[A]

It's the Paradise Podcast. I am your host, Ryan Michelle Bathe with my husband Sterling.

[B]

What's up?

[A]

Join us here on Hulu and Hulu on Disney, where we'll discuss each episode with the cast and crew of Paradise.

[B]

I'll be getting all the secrets from

[A]

Dan Fogelman, James Marsden, Shailene Woodley, Julianne Nicholson, and Sterling Kelby Brown. Paradise, the official podcast, is now streaming

[B]

and stream paradise on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get [e-mail], own the dream. Do you know Garry Shan? I was so in awe of Garry Shandling, of course. And I was brought in to audition for Larry Sanders before it was on pilot, and I was so excited. Janine Garofalo's role. Ah, yeah. I don't remember the character's name. And, you know, I came in and I was just sort of being me. And I wish I could remember exactly. I think this was it. He said, Gary said, so we're gonna read this together. And he was being funny, which was funny. And I just said, oh, okay, so I'm not reading it alone. All right? And he just went, oh, yeah, okay. And we read it. And then, you know, I wasn't chit chatty because I knew for auditions you're not there to make friends. You know, he's gonna do that. I'll just respond with a joke saying, you know, but maybe a little too dry, you know, and then. And I. And I left. And I'm walking down. It's a very long hall, and I hear the door open, and he's peeking out, looking really scared, like, to make sure that I'm leaving the building. And I'm like, I don't know. And I'm kind of smiling, like, he's so funny. We're still doing our bit, and he's like, we will call. We really will call. And I said, all right. And I keep going. And I'm like, it wasn't a bit. He's really scared of me. Oh, my God. I was too dry. I didn't wink enough at, you know, the bit. It had nothing to do with the scene. Well, like, whatever I did, like, just joking back, was. Didn't work. I mean, Gary, I hated it. Can you imagine? Because I've loved him so much. It's like, wouldn't it mean so much that, you know, Garry Shandling thinks I'm funny and that.

[B]

I'm sure Garry Shandling thought you were. There's no way in the world. Oh, please.

[A]

No, he. It was a quirky guy.

[B]

I mean, you're describing a moment in time, and with a quirky guy like Garry Shandling, I loved him, but, yes, a little unpredictable at any given moment. I mean, we had a moment working on that thing together that was highly unpleasant. It happens in show business. People cross. And again, young. Listen to this. I just thought of this. Speaking of how stupid I could have been in a room when I first auditioned out here. I didn't understand that the producers sometimes just said producers were the writers.

[A]

No, me neither.

[B]

Okay, right. So I read for the two producers, and then I go, who wrote this shit? I swear to God, that happened.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I know. And I live to tell the tale. I mean, like, many times I feel like I could have, like, I'm sorry.

[A]

That is stupid. Because even if they're not the writers, they're still producing it.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So it's not like someone's got a gun to their head to produce it.

[B]

I just. Again, and I bet you a lot of people in America can relate to this. The word producer is very fuzzy. It kind of still is for us because it's like, it could really mean anything. So I kind of had in my head producer, you know, Dori Sher, you know, sitting with a phone, you Know like, hello, I'm here from Galactic Pictures and I'd like to see that audition from Bill Maher. That was the producer, not the writers. The writers were scribes. You know, they were like guys in T shirts. And so I just thought, oh, these are the producers. And they probably think they must know that this is shit.

[A]

It's so funny. I know I was tempted at times so that they would know that I know that it's no good. It's like, what does that get you? It doesn't get you anywhere. But to this day, when someone says they're a producer, I still have 500 questions, like a concierge or like a writer. Like, what form does your role as producer take? Is it creative at all? Or are you a line producer? Like, you actually get the show done, right?

[B]

No, it's almost anything. And then of course, it gets muddied even more because the inflation of the title that anyone who is anything on the show. I've seen 20 producer people, and I know these are the writers. They just want a producer credit because then you're in that union or it's all that kind of bullshit. So we don't know what.

[A]

Well, it's a promotion. And then you're working your way up to executive producer. Once you get executive producer, they can trust you to create a show, maybe run a show, right? But people get and get a piece of the show.

[B]

But you can read a.

[A]

Where you're headed for.

[B]

You can read a name on a screen and all it says is produced by and it's somebody. And that is a straight up writer, right? That person does no producing. They are just on a writing staff doing the writing.

[A]

Yeah, I wonder how that happened.

[B]

Because the title is worth something. It's like a cab medallion.

[A]

How does union even allow the title for. You know, like, there's the Producers Guild, right? And there's the Writers Guild. Like, how was it allowed?

[B]

That's what.

[A]

How come you can't just say, I'm a director, too?

[B]

That's what agents,

[A]

you know, there's no crossover there. Wait, I have to tell you something.

[B]

Yes, do it.

[A]

No, no, you are. You said something once and it made a. It was. It was a huge. It was a geological shift for me with regards to the comeback because we had gotten canceled. And I didn't feel bad about it because I felt like, well, someone made a mistake and that's their mistake. We did the best show we could. Someone didn't like it or I don't know what. Nothing I can do about that. I'm just proud of what we did. Honestly, I felt fine. And then, you know, people kept saying, especially business people, I'm getting to you. But business, you know, like executive types or people who ran networks that I happened to know, you know, would say, what happened? Were the ratings bad? No, they were the same, if not better than Entourage. That started the season before. Well, it must have been something I said. I don't know. Michael thought maybe. Because we don't have a point of reference for a woman in that role. And that's what it is. That's what it is.

[B]

Wait, wait, I don't understand it. What does that mean, point of reference for a woman?

[A]

For a woman who is the lead.

[B]

Is a woman.

[A]

Not just the lead, but. But flawed and having that kind of ego and being humiliated, too flawed and, you know, setting herself up for humiliation, you know, kept stepping into that. So. But. And I couldn't. I was like, yeah, that's fine. How is that, though? And how could I forget? Is that possibly it? Then you said something. I was watching your show, and it wasn't related. It was just that you were talking about someone made a joke at the expense of, you know, someone who's, you know, from a marginalized group. And I don't remember specifically what it was. And you said, come on. You know, I'm all for. Humor is humor, and it should be allowed. Okay, but you don't make fun of the victim. You know, that's not gonna work. And that's when the penny dropped, and I went. Cause women are not the people in power. They're not like the. Like the white guy in power. And women are kind of that marginalized group. And it really bothered a lot of people to watch a woman get humiliated all the time.

[B]

I feel like that's a casualty of an audience that was. I'm sorry. The people who didn't get it were just not sophisticated enough to appreciate it. And that's fine. There are things I'm unsophisticated in and I do not appreciate. Hockey, for example. Yeah, okay. And others. I'm stupid. Like, watching, like, murky thriller mystery types. That's when I need a girlfriend. That's, you know, someone who I'm always watching a movie with. Honey, what happened there with the guy? Oh, that's the same guy. Oh, I didn't see that. Where he put the paper down. You know, that's where a girlfriend would be good.

[A]

Or anyone watching it, paying close attention.

[B]

Not that I'm a lonely guy. I'm just Saying the kind of person you're watching movies with, and you can always ask. But. So we're all dim in our own ways, but they're missing. Like, that is the. What's such genius about that character is that, you know, she. That's what's funny. I mean, WC Fields falling.

[A]

I mean, the difference between a behaving like that and a woman behaving like that, it's like, that's how people who are driven towards something like the spotlight. Yeah.

[B]

They're gonna make a stupid thing. I don't think that's what it was.

[A]

You don't?

[B]

No, because I think everybody. I think that's what made it very relatable, because the subject matter is very specific. That is where you lost people. Because it's like, what is this world to us? It's our world. But. And also the level of subtlety in the comedy that you were working with is something that. That's what made me love this show so much and watch it multiple times. Because the level of the subtlety. But that's my business or my mind or whatever. Many people, that kind of subtlety is just not in the realm of possibility for them to appreciate. I don't mean that as a put down. I just mean.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Let me give you an example of a scene you were talking. The gay makeup guy.

[A]

Yeah, Mickey.

[B]

Mickey, yeah. Okay. And you run into this other guy and you're asking about some other friend. I mean, I think they were both gay. And so that was in the mix of the scene. And it was so brilliant because you never enunciated what we were thinking. And yet we knew it was because they tell you. They give you this piece of information. Oh, no, he died. And you react. You never say the word aids.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you're like, oh. And then he goes, oh, no, he was hit by a car crossing Barham. And you go, oh, good. No, not good. And like encapsulated in that 13 seconds of genius comedy.

[A]

Right. That's how, you know, she thought it

[B]

was AIDS so much. But without ever saying it right. To me, that is the genius of that show. I also see how other people go, what was that conversation? Why is that funny? Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's that we. I have the same sort of issue with stuff. I mean, one reason I started this podcast is because lots of people just are not interested in politics or what's really, you know, that kind of stuff at all. They're interested in more human stuff that they are relatable to everybody's lives. They don't want to hear about Ukraine and the UN and the fucking ACLU and abortion, and that's fine. And they never will, and I will never get them. But this, anybody can listen to this.

[A]

Yeah. Because you just want to entertain.

[B]

I just want to get high with you. That's what I all really. That's what I want to do.

[A]

But I do just want to entertain. Honestly. I mean, I do think there's not entertain. That makes me sound like Ginger from Gilligan's Island.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Ginger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, I don't. But I do think it's really necessary, sweetheart.

[B]

You don't have to fucking convince me on that one. I am all about the idea that we're all just in entertainment. We use different clay. You know, I don't see my people. Bill, you're a pundit. Well, you know, I think I am selling wisdom out there. Yes. I think because. And they do need me to straighten it out. I'm not gonna lie about that. But my main thing is I'm entertaining. And if I'm not, I'm nothing. Because that's how I look at shit. If you don't entertain me. Like, you know, we did a funny thing about a year ago, and not this Oscar batch, but the one before was just incredibly lugubrious. You know, Minari and, you know, the. The Nomad Land, and they were. It was just Debbie Downer time, you know, and we did a whole. It was funny about, like, come on. You know, it's got to be a little entertaining. And yes, we understand there are issues and you can. But Hollywood did used to know how to take an issue, but also make it not just sad. Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when you say you're out to entertain, you had me in hello with that one.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think everyone needs a break. I mean, that's what everyone wants really badly. They really want a break. But by the way, your show, you have no agenda. You're just a very funny person. And you're being really honest about what. And brave about what you think about things and how you feel about how people respond to what you think, too. Like, you know, like, you know, I actually said, like, you know. But yeah.

[B]

And no.

[A]

And there's a lot of value in that. There's a lot of value in that.

[B]

But we both, I think, have these kind of careers where we got the memo fairly early on. There is somewhat of a ceiling for us. Yeah. And there's a ceiling created by the fact that, you know, there are levels of subtlety that, you know, everybody can go and enjoy. What's the Top Gun?

[A]

Uh huh. Right, right.

[B]

I mean, it's a billion dollar opening and a billion people will see it. We're not playing in that.

[A]

No, I don't see.

[B]

Yeah, and we don't.

[A]

I can't imagine.

[B]

We can't. And we really don't even want to. Right.

[A]

Can't imagine anyone asking me to be in. Well, yeah, you'd Maverick3 or whatever, you know. You know, it would be great actually.

[B]

You would fucking steal that and also make it. It would be so great if they actually did that or. You were an amazing.

[A]

I know, but who's going, wait, are you 60 yet? Cause it would be great, but you

[B]

don't look anywhere near 60.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

Yeah, you look great.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You always did.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I always thought you. I mean, I always had a little crush on you on Friends because I thought you were the smart one on your show. And I like, she just got dizzy and I was, quite frankly, the smart one on my show. Wait, I was the only one on

[A]

my show, which makes you the smartest

[B]

smart on your show. Yes, but I mean, not that everybody on the show wasn't smart. They were all smart. Everybody's smart. Yeah, they are just smart.

[A]

Well, but they are.

[B]

They are. They really are.

[A]

They actually are.

[B]

And they're all good.

[A]

Learned a lot from them.

[B]

Yeah. But I would say even they probably would agree if you had to vote for who was the smartest, it would probably be you.

[A]

Who's the smartest? Who's the one that drones on and on about things we don't want to talk about? Who's the one that has a theory about something?

[B]

Is that what you did?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, I always was. I'm always like, what's my, like, what's my theory behind that? You know, but you have a lot

[B]

of time to think. What's the evidence?

[A]

How do you.

[B]

While they're setting up and shit. Right. That's what I remember from said cuff.

[A]

But I would bring up, you know, look, well, no, I'm watching cnn. You got to see what's happening here. It's very important and you know, and

[B]

they didn't want to get into it.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, no. I'll be back. Will you tell me what happened? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

What, what were they talking about?

[A]

Things that people talk about. I mean, other things. Yes, that.

[B]

Of course, you were in your 20s,

[A]

but not for as long as I'm not me. I was 30 when we started it.

[B]

30, ha.

[A]

30s.

[B]

Same thing. Yeah, but. Yeah, but people in their 20s generally tend to be more, you know, first of all, sort of like navel gazing. I mean, it's like your first. I always say you're born twice in life, once when you're actually born. What? I'm going on.

[A]

No one's calling me.

[B]

Oh, on your phone. I mean, on your watch. Oh, for fuck's sake. I can't even.

[A]

I dismissed it.

[B]

No, no, no. I just don't. I've never saw anybody, like, get a

[A]

call on their watch because my phone's just right there.

[B]

But. What. I know.

[A]

So it rings on here.

[B]

But why do you need.

[A]

I don't know. That's not why.

[B]

I have an extra layer of.

[A]

That's not why I have it.

[B]

Why do you have it?

[A]

I like to know what time it is.

[B]

But you didn't have to get a watch that hooked up to your phone.

[A]

And it also tells me, you know, if I've taken any steps today or was I just sitting in my chair all day.

[B]

But your brain knows that.

[A]

Not anymore. Bill,

[B]

what are you saying? You're an Android. You're like. Do you know that? You know Ray Kurzweil?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, he's an author.

[A]

It's really important. I guess it is.

[B]

All right. I'll let you get out of here if you need to. He's an amazing thinker and scientist and professor, and he's been right. Predicted a lot of amazing things, like down to the year, like the fall of the Soviet Union.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

But he predicts. He has a book called the Singularity which says in 2028, man and machine will basically become. I mean, that's only six years away now, of course. We are already partway there. People do have parts in them that are. Machine parts.

[A]

Yes. With computers in it. Some of them even.

[B]

Yes. So with things that communicate with computers, as you and I are, you know, punching old age in the mouth, is this something that, like, you would consider, like. Cause I sure would.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Well, I mean, if I could just keep my brain and my dick. The rest of it.

[A]

Your two favorite things.

[B]

The rest of it. You could fucking replace your two favorites. Now, that's really kind of.

[A]

They have a sibling rivalry.

[B]

Oh, why argue? He's always gonna win. But still.

[A]

That's pretty good.

[B]

Yeah. That is pretty good. We'll be right back. Do you have to take your call or. I mean.

[A]

No. Absolutely not.

[B]

Okay. All right. I know. I'm just so grateful. Yeah, grateful. You're here long enough.

[A]

Wait. Can I ask you one Question.

[B]

You can ask me anything. We're sitting around drinking.

[A]

What field of history? What were you studying? What was it?

[B]

I was at Cornell and I was trying to establish that I knew I loved history. Taught myself American history. Could name all the American presidents in a row if you forced me to. Not because I have it memorized, just because I know the history. I think I could. Anyway, so I did love medieval. That really called to me. And I remember. I mean, this is before computers. So we were in the stacks, you know, the library.

[A]

I loved the stacks.

[B]

Yeah, the stacks. See, you're the smart one. You're in the stacks. The girl in the stacks, that'd be a good romantic song or movie that I'll never write, but.

[A]

So the girl in the stacks, everybody. I'll see you tomorrow night.

[B]

She's kind of sexy, that title.

[A]

Girl in the Stacks.

[B]

Yeah. But it would have to be a period piece because there's no more stack. But I remember being in there, these dusty old books, and I was writing some paper on something in the medieval period. And the professor, he's talking to him about the paper or something, and he said. I asked him a question and he said, well, it doesn't matter. At this point, there's really nothing new you could add to this. And I'm like, then what the fuck am I doing with this as a major now, mind you, I knew I was gonna be a comedian when I was 10.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So when I was at college, I really wasn't trying to get a degree that would get me a job. I knew what I was gonna do, you know, go.

[A]

And so the grades weren't. You weren't out for I gotta get an A?

[B]

No, but I did anyway. I was always.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I was a straight A student in high school. I missed one day of high school, Covid. And no, but I love the subject. If I had like a 28 hour day, I would spend two of them just reading history.

[A]

Wow. I don't agree with that professor, though. There's no such thing.

[B]

But it was discouraging, right?

[A]

How were you to know then? No, because I gotta say, I was

[B]

younger than when I was the idiot who wrote this shit. Can you imagine how stupid I was then?

[A]

Well, No,

[B]

it's almost beyond.

[A]

No, but because I've got to say, doing. Who do you think you are? And the historians, you know, that give us context for whatever the person's looking at. There's so many. There are different interpretations of history. So my question is. So would you read different historians who had Differing opinions about certain events.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, there's always someone who wants to be a revisionist

[A]

based on new letters. They found new information just based on.

[B]

They have to publish something.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, that's a problem, too.

[B]

That's. A lot of. Academia is such a scuzzy area. I know. It's people. I'm sure there's plenty of professors now, like, dropping their pipes. How dare you? Yes, I'm sure there's exceptions. And, yes, we need colleges and universities, but a lot of it is. They know this better than anybody. Political in what you publish. And, yes, sometimes you just have to find. I don't think that professor was wrong when he said that if I was researching the Venerable Bede or somebody who lived in 690 in Lindisfarne, in the monastery. No, no, we're not gonna find anything new about this motherfucker. Anything that came out about this guy. We know. I think there's no more Venerable Bead stuff. That's TMZ is not gonna come out tomorrow. There's a story about the Venerable Bead, although TMZ won't.

[A]

But who knows? Sometimes there's a letter, there's a something somewhere. But even without that, it's just. I don't know, like, you know. And then you have archeology, where they find new things about how people were

[B]

killed or what they were eating, if

[A]

someone was poisoned or.

[B]

Well, that doesn't happen that often. That can. But where that does happen a lot, of course, is in early man history that is always changing because they don't have the complete fossil record at all. They have pieces here and pieces there.

[A]

Don't get me started on the fossil record. No. Evolutionary biology was what I was interested in.

[B]

Before comedy.

[A]

Yeah. Before comedy. Yeah. That's what I was studying in school and. Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's why I always thought for your. For your genealogy show, you should have on Lucy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Lucy.

[A]

Yeah, the very first.

[B]

Who better?

[A]

But not the very first anymore, I don't think.

[B]

Well, early.

[A]

Early. I'm related to her.

[B]

I think we're all related to her. Who was Lucy? Tell the audience who Lucy is.

[A]

Lucy was. Well, I don't know. When. I don't have the details of that.

[B]

2.5 million years ago.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Yes. Lucy. Lucy was about four feet tall and lived about two and a half million years ago and is one of our direct ancestors. Yeah, humans came along, you know, like 200,000 years ago. And of course, we are not the only human species. We wipe the other ones out, you know, wherever. Have you read the great book Sapiens?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, that's. You love that.

[A]

No, I didn't.

[B]

That is a book for you. You'd love that book.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because it talks about, well, many things about sapiens. But one. Wherever humans went, the fossil record is very clear. We killed everything, including the other human species and the other big animal species. Like there's a whole bunch of species, for example, in Australia. And then humans arrive and 1000 years later we don't have any fossils from those big animals. They just fucking killed them all. Like the way the people killed the buffalo in our American West. Just for fun and just like.

[A]

Well, for fun. They're food too.

[B]

Food. But they killed a lot of buffalo. Just cuz. I mean, they would just. They would have a herd and they would just too. It was too many to use. The Indians, of course, used all the buffalo.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We were the opposite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're still those assholes.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. When. When are we going to stop being surprised? Well, I mean, get used to it. No, that's not the right attitude. And it's not funny enough to even say, but.

[B]

Well, I mean, not that. Look, all humans are shitty people, you know, it's not like Indians didn't do shitty things too, to each other.

[A]

If. Yeah, if feeling insecure enough and scared enough. I think humans become really shitty. But I think when there's a crisis or a need for people to come together and help each other, they do. To be cooperative. I think they do when it feels. When it's imminent.

[B]

Well, some do. And some take advantage of the situation. Many take advantage. Some do.

[A]

But then Sheriff Taylor runs them out of town, so it's okay.

[B]

Is that where you're getting this? That was a great lesson. Teaching show.

[A]

There used to be great lessons. I was just gonna say, remember when you kids, you'd watch a show and there was always. You knew that the right thing was happen in the end. And I miss that.

[B]

There was a great classic episode of Not. What was it called? Mayberry.

[A]

Oh, well, now I can't remember.

[B]

I mean, the town was Mayberry. Was it called Mayberry RFD or welcome to Mayberry or the Andy Griffith Show? The Andy Griffith Show. Exactly. You know why?

[A]

Because I'm like.

[B]

Right. The ending.

[A]

Griffiths Sheriff was done. No, that was.

[B]

I watched. I watched it in reruns when I was a kid, when I was homesick. And I loved it.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

So there was an episode where Opie. Ron Howard, of course later to be the great Director Ron Howard, he kills a bird with a slingshot. And then Andy's trying to teach him a lesson why he shouldn't have done that. And Opie's complaining about the bird chirping. And he said, yeah, well, I'm not gonna shoo that bird away. That's that bird calling for his mama. And I'm gonna let you hear how sad she is.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So I don't know why that, you know, why that one stuck in my memory, that episode, but it may have been why I joined PETA in the 90s, and I've been a PETA board member all these years, you know.

[A]

Yeah. No, but it's also. It's Right. And it's kind of sophisticated because it's very easy to say, all right, you killed a bird. You didn't have to do that, but all right. I mean, because that's how a lot of people felt like it's a bird. It's not a conscious being. Like, we are.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. We have to treat each other with respect. If we're all working on something, you have to show some appreciation for what other people are contributing, you know? I don't mean demonstrate it every day. Show appreciation and not saying, what the fuck, you did it wrong. You know, you don't talk to someone like that.

[B]

Is that what your experience has been on sets?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Not to me personally, but I've seen it.

[B]

Yes, but sets are tense places.

[A]

But they don't have to be.

[B]

No.

[A]

And they're less tense now. I feel like the ones I've been on have been.

[B]

It's a high.

[A]

Much less tense, really.

[B]

But it's a high wire industry. I mean, we're paid more than most people. A lot more. Okay. You're up on a higher wire. Like, if you fuck up, it can be in front of millions instead of just three people. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's at stake if you're on a film set? You know, a film is very often, you know, $150 million startup industry. That's really how you. It's a quick startup industry that's investing $150 million. If you were making widgets, it's like, boy, we better sell some of these widgets. And it could fail.

[A]

Yeah, it could.

[B]

Yeah. So people are tense. And I've never seen any sort of set where there wasn't some sort of blow up or people going nuts. I mean, we see some of them on film. We've seen actors and directors and go

[A]

nuts from a while ago.

[B]

I've had it happen to me personally, on a set, like just screamed at by someone for no good reason.

[A]

Right. And then how did it go after that?

[B]

That's a sitcom. That was not the one I talked about before, but the other one that. It was quickly canceled. But yeah, you know.

[A]

No, but it's just.

[B]

Yeah, it's rough.

[A]

It doesn't have. But it doesn't. It's not necessary. It's not. You know, you handed me the wrong instrument for this brain surgery. That's not what it is. It's not in the moment. Life or death. It's digital. It's not even film. We can do the take again.

[B]

But show people.

[A]

We have editors. I mean, there's, it's. Everyone has. And your best work comes when you're just a little more relaxed. You know, you have like a nervous energy. But. But it doesn't have to be an angry energy. You know what I mean? It's just.

[B]

Yeah. I mean. But again, it's hard to get the very talented people without their fucking quirks. Show people are just, they're. Everything about them is exaggerated. You know, they're very often exaggeratedly good looking, temperamental. You know, my friend always says, insanity photographs.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

You know, they're crazy people. But something about that is also charismatic and you can't take your eyes off it.

[A]

Or honest because they can't help themselves sometimes.

[B]

Yes. Trump's that way, you know, he's. He can't help revealing himself.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So you're not. I don't know if you're ever going to have this utopia where you have the really talented people and there's not craziness going on. It's a crazy business, you know?

[A]

Okay. I mean, I know plenty of talented people that are not crazy.

[B]

I agree. And if you have the choice to work with them, you should. Yeah, but there might be.

[A]

But there's less tolerance for the ones that act out and misbehave and make it a miserable experience.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And to me, that's a good thing.

[B]

Yeah. Unless they make a fortune. If the thing makes a fortune because of that person, they're gonna put up with an amazing amount of shit.

[A]

They are. But you're saying. I mean, I don't know that. I agree. That a person's difficult, you know, punishing side of them is what makes them talented. I think maybe they think it is, but I don't think it is. I really don't.

[B]

I'm just saying I don't think they

[A]

trust that they've just got it and you don't have to panic or worry over it.

[B]

I'm just saying I don't think they're separable. You know, like watching the Johnny Depp trial. I mean, some of the things he was doing, passing out and throwing places. Plates and you know, throwing places. You know, calling her a cunt and this and that are not model behavior. But the jury forgave him because he's wildly charismatic. I don't know if you can separate those two things. He's a nut. He always was a nut. Insanity photographs, it works on camera. And if you took away the insanity, I think, you know, you'd have Richard Greco. I almost said wait, who he was this Richard Grieco.

[A]

Now I do know that.

[B]

Now I gotta him and Danny. Butaduce. Oh, I got so many people mad at me. He was a very, very good looking actor on a. You know, like one of those shows like 21 Jump Street. You know, he was. He had a minute there where he was the it boy.

[A]

Yeah. I wasn't watching TV at that time,

[B]

but it didn't quite. Yeah, you know, I would. You know, I'm sure there are people who bet money on Richard Rico and not Johnny Depp. And after that trial, I bet you Richard Rico's like, boy, I dodged a bullet there.

[A]

Yeah, that would move.

[B]

All right, I'll let you go back to your life in the wild.

[A]

And you need to find another clove cigarette.

[B]

Oh, I got them right here.

[A]

Oh, it's a pretty case.

[B]

I know. I find it so sophisticated to have a little.

[A]

It is. It's really elegant. Yes, very nice.

[B]

Madame.

[A]

No, no, thank you.

[B]

Well, thank you very much. This was more fun than I could tell you. And I'm so flattered that you just did it.

[A]

Yeah, why wouldn't I?

[B]

Because you need me like a whole head.

[A]

What?

[B]

That's how I feel about you. You're you.

[A]

No, you know, there's a big difference.

[B]

Don't make me go through other parts of the comeback. That.

[A]

Yeah. But meanwhile, by the way, I brought that whole thing up for a reason was. Cause it made sense to me like for the first time when you and I was like so good. Cause the people that. That I had talked to, thinking they see women as victims and it never dawned on me, just like it never dawned on you that, you know.

[B]

But that was.

[A]

It never dawned on me and I went shooting.

[B]

But the character was so much more than just that. I mean, that was certainly. I thought so the MacGuffin that gets the character going. I mean that. I mean. But again I think that's what was relatable. We've all been the person who thinks they're going to be cast as the young, hot one, not literally, but in life, but really is going to be the shrumpy aunt with the catchphrase. I mean, that alone should have won you all the awards, because that was just so perfect. And certainly everybody in show business knows it, but in life, it happens.

[A]

Yes. No, we had. There are plenty of people in other industries that went, yes, of course.

[B]

You think you're gonna. And they don't. They see you as this. And the way she smiled through it all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the way she never, like, let it get them down. I mean, she never let that heavyset guy who I'm still afraid of, Paulie G. Oh, I did not like him. Remember one time he was getting blown when you walked in on him. Oh, it was just. Everything was just terrible about him. He still scares me. He should have been on odds. That was so funny, so scary. But, like, he never. Like, he would never. You would never get bitter, you know, you would never. You would just soldier on.

[A]

He just kept going.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I find that so much more inspiring than.

[A]

I think it has to do with how you see things. Cause for some people, it was like she just got humiliated at every turn. And for other people, it was like, no, she just kept going. She just kept saying, yeah, I clocked that. I won't have it. I'm gonna create my own reality. Here we go.

[B]

And then they did. They were nice enough to. Somebody was smart enough to do it again.

[A]

Yeah, that was fun.

[B]

A third time, maybe. Yeah.

[A]

It's been nine years.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

So maybe.

[B]

I mean, that character is.

[A]

I know. I slip into her so easily.

[B]

I mean, there are people who have done, you know, as. Through time, they've done it. The same character. They just picked it up. It's. It's. You know.

[A]

Yeah. Alan Partridge. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

All right, Club Random,

[B]

now the mics are off. All right.

[A]

That was fun.

[B]

I feel like I got to know you.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

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[B]

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The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't.

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What do I do my refund though. I'm freaking out.

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I'm so relieved.

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