Woody Allen | Club Random

Summary

Podcast Summary: Club Random with Bill Maher – Woody Allen | Club Random

Date: September 1, 2025
Host: Bill Maher
Guest: Woody Allen

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Episode Overview

In this rich, candid episode of Club Random, Bill Maher sits down with legendary filmmaker and comic Woody Allen for a free-ranging, thoughtful, and often hilarious conversation. The discussion is as much about show business and the creative process as it is about mortality, perception, intellectualism, scandal, and the meaning (or lack thereof) in life. Woody Allen’s signature blend of self-deprecation, candor, and dry wit is on full display, while Maher—an unabashed fan—challenges, probes, and matches him banter for banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedy Roots and the New York Scene

• Woody and Bill reminisce about the evolution of the comedy club scene in New York (02:08–05:04).
  • Allen recalls his early days playing clubs like The Bitter End, Dangerfield's, and The Crescendo.
  • He admits that when monumental events (JFK’s assassination, his first Oscar win) happened, he was more preoccupied with simply getting on with his work than with grand emotional reactions.
    • "I realized I couldn't do anything about it. And then you know." (05:10, Woody Allen)

2. The Myth of the 'Intellectual' Artist

• Maher challenges Woody on his claim of “no lofty thoughts,” referencing Woody’s move from gag-driven early films to mature, contemplative works (05:46–06:34).
  • Woody admits to wanting to be a serious filmmaker:
    • "I was riddled with ambition to be a serious filmmaker. But I had nothing to contribute in terms of insights..." (06:22, Woody Allen)
• Key Quote:
  • "A life with illusions is unpardonable, and a life without illusions is unbearable." (07:08, Bill Maher - attributing the quote as a unifying theme of Allen's work)

3. Dealing with Reality & Illusion

• Allen discusses distraction as his survival mechanism (07:11), admitting he avoids confronting life's pain by immersing himself in sports and movies, and pondering the futility (or necessity) of illusion.
  • "My solution to it was the coward's way out, to distract yourself." (07:12, Woody Allen)

4. Great Expectations & Artistic Disappointment

• On creative ambition vs. reality:
  • Woody describes the excitement and disappointment inherent in making films—beginning with hope, ending with compromise or embarrassment (09:36).
  • "When I sit down, make a movie, I think I'm going to make Citizen Kane...and then...I'm praying that I won't be embarrassed." (09:36, Woody Allen)

5. Reading, Literature & Regrets

• Woody openly admits to not reading many "classic" books (12:27), suggesting his education is more practical than academic.
  • Despite this, he regrets never making a truly "great" movie himself—"great" defined by art-house masterpieces like Rashomon and The Bicycle Thief (13:47).

6. Views on Mainstream vs. Art Cinema

• Discussion of classic and commercial films:
  • Allen praises The Godfather Part II (15:06), is unimpressed by Lawrence of Arabia (17:40), enjoys Streetcar Named Desire (19:34), and explains the themes of Purple Rose of Cairo (21:13).
  • "Streetcar. I love. Yes. I think it's just—it's a perfect work of art." (19:34, Woody Allen)
  • On capstone moments and endings:
    • "We are all forced to choose between reality and fantasy...You have to choose reality. And reality always kills you. It always hurts you." (24:29, Woody Allen)

7. Magic vs. Realism in Art & Life

• Talks about the need for magic in life and movies, referencing his own work and decades of American cinema as ecstatic, fantasy-laden escapism (20:08–27:10).

8. Women, Romance, and Attraction

• A frank, humorous look at Allen’s dating life and the romantic benefits of comedy (28:11–32:34).
  • "When they interview women...sense of humor comes up almost more than anything else. All the time they're lying..." (29:42, Woody Allen—ironic tone assumed)
  • Maher elaborates:
    • "Nothing sexier…than a private joke…humor hits that note for them." (30:13, Bill Maher)

9. Therapy, Neuroses, and Existential Angst

• Both men bond over lifelong neuroses and the shortcomings of therapy (33:12–36:00).
  • "I made a tiny bit of progress, and so that was the best I could do." (33:35, Woody Allen)
• Discuss Allen’s long-standing dread about the end of the universe, mortality, and aging (36:00–38:44).

10. Reflections on Legacy, Work Style, & Filmmaking

• Allen describes his work habits, non-perfectionism, and contrasts himself with his perfectionist peers (43:23–45:47). He avoids over-planning, never takes call sheets—embraces a more improvisational style.
• On writing, Maher praises Allen's prose style and humor, Allen plugs forthcoming novel What's With Baum? (41:17–43:23).
  • "I'm not a perfectionist. I'm careless. But when you write a book, it's much easier to be a perfectionist." (43:23, Woody Allen)

11. Influence and Imitation

• Bob Hope’s influence: Allen openly admits to modeling his comedic persona after Hope, and is proud of “stealing from the best” (53:04–54:07).
  • "You can see me doing them in movies sometimes shamelessly...I'm really putting on his suit." (53:12, Woody Allen)

12. Cancel Culture, Scandal, and Media

• Deep dive into Allen’s perspective on being “canceled” and on the MeToo / cancel culture era (68:53–88:32).
  • Differentiates "MeToo" (has merit for women's rights) from cancel culture (pernicious, anti-democratic).
    • "Cancel culture is a pernicious thing, and, you know, it's quite a bad thing." (87:43, Woody Allen)
  • Describes his lack of bitterness toward actors or colleagues who disassociated:
    • "That's all that they've done, is made a mistake." (76:40, Woody Allen)
  • Maher on defending Allen:
    • "I defend you because I don't like witch hunts. They're bad for society, they're bad for people. They're wrong." (85:21, Bill Maher)

13. Mortality, Aging and Contentment

• Allen speaks with calm acknowledgment about mortality, aging out of certain roles, and the diminishing thrill of cinema in the streaming era (89:56–92:11).
  • On why he may not make movies anymore:
    • "But that's not how I wanted to present it. I want to present it in a movie theater, on a screen, the way I grew up watching movies..." (77:52, Woody Allen)
  • On his real-life happiness:
    • "It's just—a crazy world." (65:57, Woody Allen)
    • Marriage to Soon-Yi is described as idyllic and lucky (65:42–65:59).
  • He jokes about aging out of romantic leads but still wanting "to get the girl." (60:24–60:35)

14. Family, Parenting, and Privately Lived Life

• Describes a loving, undramatic family life—his daughters are “regular” New York kids, not showbiz personalities (79:15–81:09).
  • Insists he didn’t “inflict” his own movies on them except for Treasure of the Sierra Madre (80:07–80:10).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On facing mortality:

  • "I realized I couldn't do anything about it. And then you know." (05:10, Woody Allen)
  • "I'm going to be dead soon. And the AI...what can they do?...There's no way out of this now." (39:16, Woody Allen)

• On the creative process:

  • "When I sit down, make a movie, I think I'm going to make Citizen Kane...then...I'm praying that I won't be embarrassed." (09:36, Woody Allen)

• On opting for fantasy:

  • "You have to choose reality. And reality always kills you. It always hurts you." (24:29, Woody Allen)

• On cancel culture:

  • "Cancel culture is a pernicious thing, and, you know, it's quite a bad thing. But…I always feel if, if you're going to be canceled by a culture, this is the culture to be canceled by." (87:43, Woody Allen)

• On success and luck:

  • "I was, yes, I was a—I was unusually lucky guy when it came to…I’ve had some wonderful women in my life." (28:15, Woody Allen)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Comedy club scene memories: 02:08–05:04
• "No lofty thoughts" debate: 05:46–08:39
• Illusion & self-distraction: 07:08–09:06
• Creative expectations/disappointments: 09:36–10:18
• Literature and artistry regrets: 12:27–13:47
• Pop-culture film taste: 15:06–20:08
• Magic/realism theme in life & art: 20:08–27:10
• On romance and humor: 28:11–32:34
• Therapy & neuroses: 33:12–36:00
• Work style/perfectionism: 43:23–45:47
• On cancel culture and career impact: 68:53–88:32
• Mortality & streaming age: 89:56–92:11
• Parenting & private family life: 79:15–81:09

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Tone & Language

The conversation is warm, self-effacing, and at times bitingly funny. Woody Allen’s famous pessimism and comic fatalism are leavened with candid recollections and light philosophical musings. Bill Maher’s affection and respect for Allen are palpable, even as he pushes back or playfully debates.

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Final Thoughts

Bill Maher’s conversation with Woody Allen is a must-listen for fans of cinema, comedy, and thoughtful conversation. It covers decades of cultural history, the ambiguities of legacy, the burdens of scandal, and the enduring hunger for meaning and magic amidst reality. Allen, characteristically modest, maintains he never made a “great” film—even as he stands as a towering figure in American cinema. Their banter is smart, revealing, and full of the anxieties and laughs that make both men’s work so enduring.

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Books & Works Mentioned:

• Woody Allen’s memoir: Apropos of Nothing
• New novel: What’s With Baum? (expected Sept. 2025)
• Films: The Purple Rose of Cairo, Streetcar Named Desire, The Godfather II, Deconstructing Harry, Love and Death, Treasure of the Sierra Madre

Classic Films Invoked:
The Bicycle Thief, Rashomon, Seventh Seal, Lawrence of Arabia, Casablanca, High Sierra, Kane Mutiny, Key Largo

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For newcomers, this summary provides a roadmap of the main themes, key topics, and unmistakable Allenisms that structure this episode’s rewarding conversation.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Woody Allen]

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[Interviewer/Host]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Woody Allen]

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[Interviewer/Host]

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[Woody Allen]

It's not so pessimistic, you know, it's probably going to. I could direct him now if he would let me. If he would let me direct him now that he's president.

[Interviewer/Host]

I have returned like MacArthur to find a great man. A great man is in my home. How are you?

[Woody Allen]

I'm okay. Everybody's been so nice to me.

[Interviewer/Host]

What did you expect? Oh no, let me vomit my love for you right away. Get it off the table. You know, from the beginning with the stand up through the early movies, the middle movies, the late movies, the New Yorker pieces.

[Woody Allen]

Were you part of the New York Comics Group, the Bitter End or any of those places?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, no, I was five when that was happening. I mean, I started in the 80s. It was the improv, the Catch, A Rising star. Do you remember that place in New York, though?

[Woody Allen]

You were there? Yeah, yeah. Are you from New York?

[Interviewer/Host]

New Jersey.

[Woody Allen]

Ah, okay. So you. So you played those same clubs in Manhattan That.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, that was my. My era was. Was, you know, the com. The improv down on 44th and 9th. That started in like 62. That was the earliest one. That was the granddaddy of them all. But by the 80s, it had become a thing. And by the late 80s, it was a phenomenon. Mid sized cities had five comedy clubs.

[Woody Allen]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, and it just burned itself out after a while. It wasn't like. I mean, when you started, it was just the bitter end. That was. There was a few clubs and only a few comics. When you started, there was like maybe one new comic every few years. When I was doing it in the 80s, like the dentists were doing comics. It was terrible.

[Woody Allen]

Right. Did you play Dangerfields?

[Interviewer/Host]

I lived nearby it. In someone's closet, basically. I lived in the maid's room. Yeah, I had a rent free situation. Don't even ask. But yeah, Dangerfields. I didn't play it because that was. I was too new. And that was a headliner club. I wasn't a headliner yet.

[Woody Allen]

So when you came out here, did you play the Troubadour?

[Interviewer/Host]

No, that was. I don't remember comics ever playing the Troubadour. I remember comics getting in trouble for being in the audience at the Troubadour. I don't know. That was like, oh, you know, maybe the Smothers Brothers did play that.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, I think I played the Troubadour.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, well, back then there were. Now it's just music. I think I've never heard of a comic at the Troubadour.

[Woody Allen]

I played that other place in Hollywood. It was an upstairs and a downstairs.

[Interviewer/Host]

What year?

[Woody Allen]

The year that Kennedy was assassinated? Because I was playing there when. The day that Kennedy was assassinated.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like when you won your Oscar, you had the same reaction as you did when Kennedy was assassinated. I thought about it for a minute and then I went back to work.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, that's the guy. I was writing a script of what's New Pussycat? I was in the motel, like the Jean Autry Motel, and I was playing the place. The Crescendo was upstairs or the Crescendo was downstairs and there was a place upstairs.

[Interviewer/Host]

But why don't these things affect you more? To most people they're earth shaking.

[Woody Allen]

I was too stupid to grasp what happened. I was there and someone said. It was the operator on the phone. And she said, Mr. Allen, the President's been shot. And I said, oh, yeah. And I turned on the television, I looked for a minute or two, realized I couldn't do anything about it. And then you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

And now that is true. But. Okay, let me challenge you on this. You say in this book you have no lofty thoughts.

[Woody Allen]

I have no what?

[Interviewer/Host]

You say I have no lofty thoughts.

[Woody Allen]

No. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you can't really believe that.

[Woody Allen]

No, I don't have any Love. I've often said I'm mistaken for an intellectual.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is what I have to challenge. Because answer me this, then. If you have no lofty thoughts, how. Why didn't you just keep making the silly kind of movies you made at the beginning that were just gags? I grant you, there are no lofty thoughts in Bananas. There's no lofty thoughts in Take the Money and Run. But then you did interiors and movies that were like, almost all lofty thoughts.

[Woody Allen]

But I was riddled with ambition to be a serious filmmaker. But I had nothing to contribute in terms of insights or.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know why that is? Because there are no lofty thoughts. No, no, there's one. There's one lofty thought.

[Woody Allen]

I think you have it.

[Interviewer/Host]

I. You do, too. It's your theme, too. It's the quote, I always think, that encapsulates it. I think it's from Eugene o', Neill, but maybe not. Or maybe somebody talking about Eugene o', Neill, or it could be Zuby's House, I don't remember. But the quote is a great quote. A life with illusions is unpardonable, and a life without illusions is unbearable.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, I agree with that.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a big theme of yours.

[Woody Allen]

It's a big theme because you. You do have to. You know, you've got to delude yourself to get through it's. A life is a terrible, painful, awful, tragic thing, and you've got a. I. My solution to it was the coward's way out, to distract yourself. There are people that embrace life and they're. They're. And they confront it, and they have all kinds of mature, you know, perspectives on it. But I don't. I. To me, it's. I avoid it. I watch baseball, I watch sports, I watch movies.

[Interviewer/Host]

But that's.

[Woody Allen]

That's.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's not relevant. In the movies themselves, there are lofty thoughts, or at least, again, maybe this.

[Woody Allen]

Then I've heard them somewhere.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Woody Allen]

You know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. Well, we all have. And then we confront them in our own life. And that's really the one I see over and over again about illusions. And there's only so many ways to say that. And everything is just, to me, a variation. If it's lofty on that theme, said in an entertaining way, you say it in an entertaining way. You're a very entertaining fellow.

[Woody Allen]

So how do you deal with this? I mean, do you. Do you. Are you conscious that you are deluding yourself, or do you want to delude yourself?

[Interviewer/Host]

But isn't that the theme? That, again, you and all of Us, to a degree are exploring is like, it's the dichotomy, it's the paradox we will never figure out, you know?

[Woody Allen]

No, you'll never figure it out.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's why the quote is good. A life with them is bad and a life without them is bad in a different way.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. So all you can do is kind of push it out of your mind and, you know, distract yourself.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know the novelist John Irving, he wrote World Recording.

[Woody Allen]

I know of him.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, me neither. Okay. But I see all his Robin Williams movies. He said every great novel would have better been called Great Expectations. He said every novelist wishes that title was still available because life. Great Expectations, you know.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. Whenever you sit down to write a novel or to, to make a movie or to embark on some kind of artistic thing, you always, or at least I always expect that it's going to be great. I always, you know, when I sit down, make a movie, I think I'm going to make Citizen Kane. And when people see this, they'll be stunned. And then when I finally finish shooting it, I'm in the editing room, I'm praying that I won't be embarrassed. And I'm ready. I'll change anything. I'll put the end in the beginning, I'll put narration into it, I'll do anything. And all your great expectations go out the window.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, I was talking more about the character's Great Expectations.

[Woody Allen]

Uh huh.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yours. I mean, I get that. That's what any filmmaker does. I think what you did early in your career was set down this marker that I can't be embarrassed because I'm an artist. I'm going to fail sometimes. And that's what's going to make you like me more. I think that's what you did. Possibly not by choice, it's just how you followed that idea. You're not going to let anybody tell you what to do, how to do it. You are either God in your universe.

[Woody Allen]

Right. That's true. You have to do it yourself because it doesn't work any other way. But you have to accept the fact that you're going to fail a certain amount of times.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Woody Allen]

The problem is if you're in an art form, if you're a writer at home and you fail, you throw the paper away and you start over. If you're a filmmaker, you have to constantly raise 15, 20, $30 million or something. And then if you're an architect or a filmmaker, you've got to raise a fortune to ply your, your trade. And so it Gets dicey. You. You can't afford. You know, you're resigned to the fact that you will fail, but you can't afford to fail too much because then they can't get any more money.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. I read in the book that you talking about going to therapy and said something like, you're waiting for the Godot that never comes.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. That's when I. When I started.

[Interviewer/Host]

This, to me, is Great Expectations.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, everything is just you wait. Which I know you've never read because you say, also in your unconvincing defense of how you're not an intellectual, you say, you know, that you never read Great Expectations. You never read Ulysses, you never read 1984. Catch 22. Don Quixote, you mentioned.

[Woody Allen]

That's right. I've never read any of the ones you've just mentioned.

[Interviewer/Host]

I've read them all. You want to get the skinny on them. You want to. You want to get.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, you. Can you condense it?

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, like Dickens, 1850. I mean, for the time, but it's very. It's asking a lot of 1850 to be relevant today. And also he was writing them on installment, you know, Dickens. They would be knocking on the door because it had to go in the paper. That's how that book was written.

[Woody Allen]

You know, that's how Dostoevsky wrote, too, for the money and bit by bit and, you know. But I never had the patience to read any of them. I was never a reader. I never enjoyed reading as a kid. It was not something I like to do, and to this day, I don't enjoy it. I've done it a certain amount. Because you needed to do it to survive and to. To flourish as a writer, but it's not.

[Interviewer/Host]

I bet you you'd like catch 22, the other ones.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, I might. I read Catcher in the Rye, and I like that short. I like. I thought that was.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's good when they're short.

[Woody Allen]

That was. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, you also say, I thought this was crazy. It was on the last page that your big regret is you never. You say you think you never made a great movie.

[Woody Allen]

That's right. I think I've made. Remember, I've made 50 movies. I wrote and directed 50 movies. Some of them, I do think are good. More. More than half of them are not. But I do think some of them are good. But I never made. If you think a great movie is Rashoman or the Bicycle Thief or the Seventh Seal or.

[Interviewer/Host]

See, I've never seen those. Just like you've never read the books.

[Woody Allen]

Now, why haven't you seen those?

[Interviewer/Host]

Because, like. Because I'm just the young man in the 22nd row. Like these art house movies that you like, I mean, you're right. I haven't tested them enough.

[Woody Allen]

You'd enjoy them, though. But the thing about them is they're not homework. They're entertaining. They're actually gripping and entertaining.

[Interviewer/Host]

But I've heard people say that about other things that did not grip or entertain me. Again, that's interesting. Yeah, but, like, okay, I usually prepare nothing for this show. I think that's obvious. But I did want to ask you about movies because you. Your taste in movies. Like, I would not want to know if you've seen any of these movies. Like, these are not the art house foreign director movies. These are like the ones that the common people love. But, you know, they're big. Like Godfather.

[Woody Allen]

You see, I saw the Godfather 2 I thought was great. The period work. I thought it was absolutely great. The. The period work in Godfather 2i. I did think was great.

[Interviewer/Host]

Other than that, not really much.

[Woody Allen]

Well, well, no. I mean, I. I thought they were good pictures, definitely, but. But the period work in. In Godfather 2 was great filmmaking.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you see In Nora?

[Woody Allen]

No, I haven't, but. But my wife, Soon Yi saw it and loved it. I have not seen it.

[Interviewer/Host]

You no interest hooker with a heart of dog?

[Woody Allen]

I do have marginal interest. And that doesn't reflect on the film.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, I know.

[Woody Allen]

It reflects on my own, you know, smallness. I mean, I.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, it doesn't make you small, I'm sure. I reject that theory that people are small because they don't like a certain thing. You could.

[Woody Allen]

You're entitled to like it.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know, but you're. We're all entitled to enjoy what we want and enjoy our lives the way we want.

[Woody Allen]

But I might enjoy it, right? I don't give a chance. I'm just saying because I don't have.

[Interviewer/Host]

You don't have to apologize for not watching Enora, and I don't have to apologize for not watching the bicycle.

[Woody Allen]

It's not that I didn't like it. I just haven't seen it. I might sacrifice some.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's okay. It's okay.

[Woody Allen]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's okay I don't watch the bicycle. Div.

[Woody Allen]

I can't figure out why, though.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's it about?

[Woody Allen]

Bicycle is stolen and the picture is trying to retrieve it, and it's very crucial for you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Are you sure this is not Pee Wee's big adventure? Because I think that's the Same plot.

[Woody Allen]

I didn't see that.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, I didn't see, okay. James Bond movies. You.

[Woody Allen]

No, I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you wrote one that was a James Bond parody.

[Woody Allen]

No, I don't. No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, you acted in that.

[Woody Allen]

I had a small acting part.

[Interviewer/Host]

Casino Royale. Right.

[Woody Allen]

I was in it. Yeah. It was a moronic enterprise, and I was in it in. In a small way. I was just starting out, and at that point in my life, I had to do anything in film to get a foothold. And so I was advised to be in it when they offered it to me, but none. I saw the first James Bond film and it was fine, but I was never moved to see another one. I'm. I'm not a. Not. It doesn't interest me.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, if you do, I would not start with Roger Moore anyway. Although a lovely gentleman. Okay. What? Lawrence of Arabia.

[Woody Allen]

Lawrence of Arabia. You know, again, it's impressive filmmaking, but there was a lot in it that I. I didn't think it was.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't get it.

[Woody Allen]

I didn't think it was.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't. I mean, like, what is it about? I, I. It's so lauded and yet I have watched it a couple of times and I'm like.

[Woody Allen]

Well, the filmmaking is. Is impressive. You know, technically impressive. I thought a lot of the acting in it was cornball. I mean, I did. I, you know, and I went to. I went to like it because, you know, I had heard so many wonderful things about it. And look, I mean, I, When I, I criticize these things. I couldn't make a film that impressive if I tried my whole life. I'm just talking.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you did not work on that scale.

[Woody Allen]

I couldn't.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. It's not your choice. It's just not your style.

[Woody Allen]

I wouldn't be able to. I don't have the ability.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what? You had this other ability that they don't have. The Graduate.

[Woody Allen]

The Graduate. I liked. I saw it years after it came out and I liked it. You know, again, I didn't think it was a great movie, but I liked it and the people in it were wonderful.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I guess I should just forget about Twilight.

[Woody Allen]

Which one?

[Interviewer/Host]

Twilight. I bet you your kids have seen it about vampires in the high school.

[Woody Allen]

No, I don't know it. I don't know it.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know. Sunset Boulevard.

[Woody Allen]

Sunset Boulevard is what my wife would call and I would agree with her. Fun junk. You know, it's great fun, but it's, you know, it's a junkie, silly movie. But it.

[Interviewer/Host]

No lofty thoughts.

[Woody Allen]

But. But it's fun.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, but then we're back to lofty thoughts. I know, I know. The one you love is Streetcar.

[Woody Allen]

Streetcar. I love. Yes. I think it's just. It's a perfect work of art. A great, great play. Every line in it is superb. Every choice in it is superb. Every. They lucked out in every way. They had a great director at the height of his powers. They had Marlon Brando at the height of his powers. I mean, it was just superb in every way.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you also said in the book you relate to Blanche that you. That's who you are.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. And that's going with what you were saying before. You know, I really. You don't want realism. I want magic. And magic has appeared in many of my films.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Woody Allen]

And I think there's no way out of this terrible mess that we're all in without some kind of magical solution. If. Without that, nothing's gonna happen.

[Interviewer/Host]

See, I would say that Purple Rosa Cairo might be a great movie because the ending of it, you're rooting for this happy ending that would please your heart, shall we say. But it has a better ending. It's the right ending.

[Woody Allen]

It's the right ending.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's the right ending. And that's why it's a brave choice, which maybe makes it a great movie because, well, it's been out 30 years.

[Woody Allen]

Can I tell you, it's one of my better movies. I wouldn't call it great, but it is one of my better movies. And they did pressure me to change. Change the ending.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sure.

[Woody Allen]

They had gone up to Boston to.

[Interviewer/Host]

Screen it, describe the plot. And I know you say you relate also to that character that Mia Farrow played in that. Lowe's knows that no matter your paint project, saving is at the top of your list. That's why when you shop today, you can buy one, get one free. Select Valspar and HGTV Home by Sherwin Williams. One Coat coverage interior paints via rebate. Shop these deals in store or online. Today at Lowe's, we help you save. Selection varies by location while supplies last. Discount taken at time of purchase. See sales associate for details. Offer valid 821 93.

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[Woody Allen]

Yeah, that's you. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because the clot is that she's in a desperate, horrible depression life, bad husband, poverty, the whole thing. And so she goes to the movies and gets lost in the wonderful, as.

[Woody Allen]

Most of America did in those years.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right? Right. So the character, Jeff Daniels, handsome leading man, he comes off the screen. Now, of course, this is under the category of buy the premise. Buy the bit. You gotta buy the premise. And then you run with the bit. So the character comes off the screen. Right. Okay, so. And then romances her. I mean, legitimately. They fall in love and then the actor. Right, the real actor, the real guy is pissed off because this guy came off the screen and now he's, like, stealing his thunder. There can't be two of them running around.

[Woody Allen]

Right. He's hurting them.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. So he comes to town to try to get that guy, the one who came off the screen, to go back up on the screen.

[Woody Allen]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

So he. Then he romances Mia Farrow.

[Woody Allen]

That's right.

[Interviewer/Host]

And she falls for him. And now she has to make a choice between the guy who came off the screen, Jeff Daniels, and the real actor and the guy who came off the screen. You know, he's a little more true and honest, but the other guy, he's real. So she, you know, as an audience member, you're like, okay, this is great. She's gonna get everything she wants. She's gonna get this great guy, and now he's human. So they have a. But it means the other guy has to go back up on the screen. So she does that. She picks the real guy. The other guy goes back up on the screen, and then she's like. He said, we're gonna. The real one's gonna take her back to Hollywood and she's at the train station and. Or whatever. And of course, he didn't show up. Of course. He was just using her. Your heart wanted them to, like, have this fairytale ending, but. No, but that's what ambitious actors do.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, but you remember this? The capsule. Excuse me? The capsule meaning of the film is that we are all, in my opinion, forced to choose between reality and fantasy. And it's very pleasurable to choose fantasy. But in the end, that way lies madness. So you have to choose reality. And reality always kills you. It always hurts you. But you. You have no choice. You can't choose fantasy. Because you go nuts. So you have to choose real. And the real is always heartbreaking because life is heartbreaking.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is that the ending to the ones you love? These, you know, Seventh Seal and these types? It's always the realistic ending.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, the Bicycle Thief has an ending that will have you in tears and the Seventh Seal won't have you in tears. But it's very powerful film.

[Interviewer/Host]

The movies that you talked about and that took people away, they were so anti realistic. I mean in the 30s and 40s and 50s, the audience had zero expectation of realism. They're actually offended by it. Like if you got shot, you didn't like bleed out.

[Woody Allen]

That's right.

[Interviewer/Host]

And a kiss was very chaste. Things were just indicated.

[Woody Allen]

You were not allowed to open your mouth. There were rules. They had to sleep in double beds when they were married on the screen. You never saw any of those married couples in the same bed. They always had to have double bed. They were very, very prudish and very strict about that, you know. But those were escapist films. And one could make the case that since, since there's nothing you can really do about the tragic side of life, that maybe in the end the better thing to do is to make the films that are escapist and give people an hour and a half of respite from the terrible anx. Anxieties of life. Let them enjoy themselves in an unrealistic manner for an hour and a half and go back, refresh them like a cold drink of water on a. On a hot day. And they, they go back and all the confrontational films, the heavy films don't do anything except, you know, reiterate your. The tragedy of life, which you already know about.

[Interviewer/Host]

I have to tell you, like when, when I was a 14 year old with other wise ass New Jersey boys and we were. Your early movies were out and we loved them. And what you thought about when you watched movies back then and the people were, you know, in the apartment where the elevator opened right into the apartment and every phone was white. And you said people were always drinking but no one ever vomited.

[Woody Allen]

That's right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, what that was to you, your shit was to us as 14 year old boys because like we read about your life, you know, eating dinner at Alain's every night and like all these women, I mean you were such a ladies man.

[Woody Allen]

Incredible that I, that I was, that I was able to have a life and to have been involved with a number of women that were quite beautiful and formidable, gifted and intelligent.

[Interviewer/Host]

You had dated Diane Keaton and both her sisters.

[Woody Allen]

I was, yes, I was a, I.

[Interviewer/Host]

Was.

[Woody Allen]

Unusually lucky guy when it came to. I've had some wonderful women in my life. Very, very influential on me.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, I know, you said that like at some point you kind of were under the wing of Mel Brooks.

[Woody Allen]

No, not under the wing. I got on the Sid Caesar show. I was very, I'm about 10 years younger than Mel and he was very, very friendly with me, very nice to me on the show.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you said when you, the book at least says you looked up to him in the sense that you were just amazed that this small Jew could be.

[Woody Allen]

Because he would walk, we'd walk home together from the show. We lived in the same neighborhood and we'd walk home together after the show and he would regale me with stories about his love life. And it was remarkable to me that, you know these very beautiful women, he captivated them all. And he did it all with his personality, with his brains, with his personality.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's what we were saying about you.

[Woody Allen]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's what my 14 year old self was like. This small Jew is getting a lot of tail. So there's gotta be something to this comedy thing, you know?

[Woody Allen]

Yes. Well, it's interesting that you say that because when they interview women, and I guess men too actually, but when they interview, I notice more with women that they, when ask them what's important to them, that sense of humor comes up almost more than anything else. All the time they're lying, they just.

[Interviewer/Host]

It'S just, it's just that when the good looking guy says anything, they laugh.

[Woody Allen]

That could be, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, it's not. They really do. Like, you know why they like a sense of humor? Because what women crave more than anything is intimacy. They never feel like you're quite intimate enough and like there's nothing sexier, nothing wettens panties more than like a private joke that you have with a girl because it says, oh, we're just, it's just us. We're the only two that understand this. And humor hits that note for them.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. Because I can see it with Mel and I can see with myself that I was able to go out with women that I could have only dreamt of when I was younger. And what they saw in me I couldn't figure out.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's tough about your first two marriages. So many funny lines. I mean there's so many LOL lines in here. But like when you said when you were Louise Lasser, who's like, we've all had the Louise Lasser the one who's toxic in many ways, but too sexy. You can't resist. Right? I mean, that's her for you.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. That's a good decision.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, Sinatra had Ava Gardner. Yes, that was, you know, his version. We all have that girl where we shoot up Palm Springs and then we make up. We all did it. But, you know, the line that I love was, I think one of your first dates. And you said, I was so exhausted when I got home from being charming, I felt like I'd run a marathon.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. I was working.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, I remember that age when you just. You are just working hard.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. Yeah. You're selling. Cause you have to sell yourself. The lovely girl, the beautiful girl, the charming girl, the brilliant girl, says, this is what I bring to the table. Now what do you have? And you look at him. What do I have? Gee, I'm not, you know, Montgomery Clift, and I'm not brilliant, and I'm not, you know, so you gotta work and sell yourself. And you try very hard to impress the girl.

[Interviewer/Host]

People would think you're brilliant, but we won't have that argument again.

[Woody Allen]

But I would not want to give the impression in this conversation that I was some kind of romantic ladies man who scored all the time and was successful. That was not the situation. Most of the time I struck out. It was the few times that I succeeded. I happened to be lucky. I succeeded with some very lovely women. They were brilliant, they were creative. They were beautiful. They were, and as I say, very influential on my life. I learned a lot from all of them. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And this is the kind of thing you talk about in therapy. Are you still in therapy?

[Woody Allen]

No. No, I haven't been for a long time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Thank God. You said I still have the same issues and problems and neuroses I had when I was 17.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. This is tr.

[Interviewer/Host]

I never understand this about therapy. Doesn't that say it's not working? Why keep doing it?

[Woody Allen]

Of course, for me, I can only speak for myself because other people have told me that it worked remarkably with them. For me, it worked a little bit. It was a little helpful. Not as much as I hoped. I thought I was going to go in and come out, you know, a new man and just in control of everything. But that didn't happen. But I made a tiny bit of progress, and so that was the best I could do.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, how could a stranger know you better than you? Aren't you always, to some degree, like, telling another human being things that you know even deeper, but you're not saying.

[Woody Allen]

No, but if you just go in. If you go in and talk about your deepest feelings and you keep talking about them uninhibitedly over and over and over, you yourself start to realize certain things. I never had, you know, a Perry Mason moment, a eureka moment. I mean, I never. I just.

[Interviewer/Host]

But, But Laura Adela would rush into the courtroom with new evidence about your psyche.

[Woody Allen]

No, I did not. And I, you know, I never wept. I never broke down, you know, but. But gradually. I mean, even as phlegmatic a person as me.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you funny in therapy? I bet you the therapist, you had, what, a l. Job to get entertained by you twice a week.

[Woody Allen]

One of them said to me, I only had a few. One of them said to me, I thought it was going to be so interesting doing therapy with you, but it's like, you know, with an accountant or a businessman, you know? Yeah. I was. I'm not exciting in person. I'm not, you know, I'm not scintillating or, or, or, you know, I'm okay. Pleasant, I think.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. I think. I think you have. I always thought you had what I call New York syndrome, which is like people who just can't be happy unless they're a little unhappy. Like, your thing with. You're obsessed with the universe ending. That, you must know. That's so crazy. Like, what is. Is the universe expanding or is it. What? What. How? Why is it going to end? Something with the universe.

[Woody Allen]

It's going to end. It's coming apart.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's coming apart.

[Woody Allen]

Flying apart.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, but not like by flying fast.

[Woody Allen]

Speed, increasing speed.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know. Okay, so it's coming apart, but not for millions of years. You do see how crazy it is to worry about something that's not going to happen for millions of years?

[Woody Allen]

Well, well, but, but the overall theme, I mean, I. I will be. I will come apart long before the universe. I mean, you know, I'm at the end of this year. In December, I'd be 90.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know.

[Woody Allen]

And. And I plan on dying in the next few years.

[Interviewer/Host]

AI could. Would you live forever if AI let you?

[Woody Allen]

You mean, what would they do? Insert a little mechanism in my head and I would never be experiencing me?

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't have the blueprints, but AI is doing amazing things and. No, I mean, keep you. You just reverse the deterioration of cell damage, which is what kills us. I mean, they, they. It's not unreasonable that they could come up with something where you could literally be immortal.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. Yes. But right now they have nothing. And I'm not.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know. But I must tell you that, like, there are some people who are, like, unrecognizable from 29 to 89. Like, you look at a picture, like, sometimes they capture, like, a guy who was a prison guard at a concentration camp, you know, and they show a picture of you when he was, like, 25 as the guard at Treblinka. And then now he's been an auto worker for 50 years in Ohio. And he's. You know what you're. And he's like, I wasn't this guy. And you kind of know he was. But you look at the pictures, like, I just. He just looks so different. You look exactly like Woody Allen. I mean, obviously older, but, like, completely recognizable.

[Woody Allen]

Well, yeah, I look recognizable, but that can change overnight, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes, it can.

[Woody Allen]

Suddenly you hit that number and. And then I come in here, you know, with osteoporosis.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Okay, let's not. I feel like you're a hypochondriac who actually is never sick.

[Woody Allen]

I've been very lucky. I mean, lucky. My parents had longevity.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Woody Allen]

You know, and so. And I've been blessed so far. So far without. But, you know, I've spoken to people who. I'm saying, you know, it's remarkable. You're 95 years old and you look so great, and you're so vigorous and everything is great. And, you know, next year they're dead.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Look, I'm about to be 70, which I'm sure to you is like, oh, if I was only 70, 70 would.

[Woody Allen]

Be a pleasant time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Exactly. And I know I feel the hot breath of you know who with the scythe. You know, you can't not. You feel. Even though we feel fine right now, we know the thing is chasing us in a way it wasn't chasing us when we were.

[Woody Allen]

It's closer to us. Yeah, it's coming up.

[Interviewer/Host]

But again, we don't know with AI and things like that, and I mean, does.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. I don't put no trace in it for. I still think that I'm 90.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Woody Allen]

I'm going to be dead soon. And. And the AI and AI, you know, what can they do? They can only, you know, put metal, you know, mechanical things in your head or your heart.

[Interviewer/Host]

And we don't know what AI can do. That's the whole point, is that they're smarter than us by now. We don't know what. First of all, they're plotting against us. You know, this. Right. I mean, the robots are going to take over, but they also might keep us alive. Or they might kill all of us because we misgendered somebody.

[Woody Allen]

I don't think they're going to keep us alive. I mean, I. I don't think necessarily they're going to kill us, but I don't think you're ever going to get to that. I mean, they can increase longevity with advanced medical, you know, knowledge. But I don't look good. There's no way out of this now.

[Interviewer/Host]

That you're in California. Can't thank you enough for coming here. Get some sun. I know you hate the sun. You know, we're solar creatures. We need sun. You need.

[Woody Allen]

I hate the sun.

[Interviewer/Host]

But I'm telling you, this is science. We already know. We don't even need AI to know this. We need sun. We're solar people. We need it to convert vitamin D. I mean, look, a little of it.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, but basically it's carcinogenic and it's.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's not. Basically, it's carcinogenic when there's too much of it. Yes, it can be.

[Woody Allen]

And it's unpleasant.

[Interviewer/Host]

How can sunlight be unpleasant?

[Woody Allen]

It's like the ultimate hot and ugly.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know, but it's like the ultimate metaphor in song and poetry for happy and good. Like, the sun came out is a metaphor for.

[Woody Allen]

I don't see it that way. When I get up in the morning and I know the blinds. If it's a gray, misty day in Manhattan, it's beautiful. And if it's sunny and glaring, it's not so nice. I. I can't get used to it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I mean, we see those things kind of differently.

[Woody Allen]

Can I. Can I say that I. That I wrote a novel?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Woody Allen]

Can I? Because I wrote a book that will come out in September. This is a memoir, and it's nonfiction.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's your life.

[Woody Allen]

It's my life.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's fantastic. You're such a great prose stylist. I mean, besides being LOL throughout the book and, like, just being so honest. It's. You're just a great writer as far as, like.

[Woody Allen]

Well, you're very nice to say. No, it's true.

[Interviewer/Host]

Writing is just a series of sentences. And. And sentences can be good and they can be bad. I know they say if they put a monkey in front of a typewriter for long enough, he'd come out with Shakespeare. That's. He never would. But the rest of us are choosing from the 400,000 or so words in the English language. And you choose great ones.

[Woody Allen]

Well, thank you.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's true.

[Woody Allen]

I. I decided finally to write a work of fiction. And I wrote a novel, the title escapes me at the moment, called what's with Baum? Like, what's with Woody? What's with Baum? And it comes out in September of this year. And I have no idea how people will respond to it. I'm hoping it will entertain them. But, you know, I don't know. I had fun writing. It does not mean for a second anyone will have fun reading it.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, I find your writing always. I mean, you've written a lot of stuff. I mean, I remember the Without Feathers book that I had when I was a kid. Without Feathers, Yeah.

[Woody Allen]

New York accumulation.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes. I mean, and I feel like you, in your writing, you are completely precise, a perfectionist in a way that by your own admission, you are not in filmmaking. I mean, you're the first one to say, like, when it's five o', clock, if I could make the movie better with another take of that shot. But the nick game is starting. You go to the nick game.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. I'm not a perfectionist. I don't have the dedication that my peers and colleagues have. If you look at these other filmmakers that I came along with, the Coppola and Scorsese and Spielberg and the. They're perfectionists and they're great. I am not a perfectionist. I'm careless. But when you write a book, it's much easier to be a perfectionist because, you know, you're home and it's not that much.

[Interviewer/Host]

But that's your style. Like, yes, there is something to be said, a lot to be said, for the way those filmmakers do what they do. And their perfectionism is noted and appreciated. But you just have a different style, which people have come to expect in a Woody Allen movie. You say it yourself. I don't do coverage. You did that movie where you lent yourself out as an actor to Paul Mazursky.

[Woody Allen]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's the.

[Woody Allen]

Is it the scenes from the Mall?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, the mall movie with Bette Midler.

[Woody Allen]

Now, I didn't see it, but I did it strictly.

[Interviewer/Host]

You saw it, it was okay.

[Woody Allen]

I had respect for Musersky, so I did it.

[Interviewer/Host]

But again, I remember you saying, like, this guy works, not like I do. He rehearses. And this is how most directors work. They rehearse. They have a storyboard. They plan things. They care if the actors say the words on the page. You don't do any of that. And that's your style. And it's fine because, like, a lot of show business is people wasting time and money doing shit that nobody would notice.

[Woody Allen]

I think what you're saying is true. There's a lot of waste and a lot of time waste. You know, I'm careless about that. I don't care about it. Mazursky, a very fine director, was meticulous and he plotted things out and put tape on the floor. And we went to the locations first. And that made him comfortable. And he was able to do very nice movies when he worked. But I don't have the patience, I don't have the concentration to do it. I was not a good student. I can't concentrate. I didn't like homework. I didn't like homework from when I. In all the years I made films, I never took a sheet home with me. What do you call it?

[Interviewer/Host]

A call sheet.

[Woody Allen]

A what? A call sheet. I never took a call sheet home with me. I never got one. I never knew what I was shooting.

[Interviewer/Host]

You are always on the call sheet. You're the director, I'm the director.

[Woody Allen]

And I don't care what I'm shooting the night before.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's whether you were on the sheet as an actor. See, to me there's two kinds of Woody Allen movies, and they both can be great. I mean, but the ones you're in are just different, you know, like, you're just a charismatic person. It's impossible to explain. And a lot like your appeal is so universal all over the world, and yet what you're doing often is so idiosyncratic, you know, like, so, you know, you once, I think did an Albert Shanker joke in one of your.

[Woody Allen]

I did, yes. And it didn't matter to me that people know who Albert Shanker was.

[Interviewer/Host]

They get exact. They get. So some things by osmosis.

[Woody Allen]

They get it. But yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. And so like. Yeah. When you're in the movie, I mean, you know, do I like a lot Vicky, Christina? Yes. And Match Point. And I love Midnight in Paris. But like, I like deconstructing Harry more. Cause you're Harry, you know? Cause it's just a different kind of movie.

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[Interviewer/Host]

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[Woody Allen]

You know, it's interesting. The, the, you know, one thing that I, I remember that you would not agree with me on for sure was I know you took issue with my adoration of Bob Hope.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, no, not as a, not in the way. I don't know who told you that.

[Woody Allen]

I saw you, I mean, I saw you on television and I don't remember the quote, but you seem to feel that it was hard for you to understand the level of adoration I had for him.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know what that is? That's because I saw my parents who are World War II veterans, both of them. My father was in Patton's army, my mother was an army nurse. They met up over there in the era when Bob Hope was every GI's hero. And I watched them become so disillusioned when he became a right wing, cheap phone it in whoremongering douchebags.

[Woody Allen]

Okay, so I'm not that far off.

[Interviewer/Host]

No.

[Woody Allen]

That you have criticism of him, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

No, but he was great when you loved him. And I can totally separate the artist from the schmuck. I mean, I will listen to an R. Kelly record tonight if I want to. I don't care. And yes, he was great in those early movies, but he did become this asshole who would never do a second take. I remember when the, when his specials would come on and my mother used to be, you know, Bill, his monologue is starting. You know, they would gather around the TV. This is the World War II guy. And then at some point he was just stumbling through the cue cards. And I remember working with him once on something and I heard this from other people, would never do a second take. Even when you stumble over a line or something and you, I mean, more Runway, just, he just became something different. And I saw that hurt my parents. So I did have a little bit of venom for Him.

[Woody Allen]

That's interesting because I agree with you that his later work was not comparable to some of those movies. But if you see the great Lover.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. You know, some of those pictures.

[Interviewer/Host]

I love the road movies. I love Bob Hope as a coward. And I know you were doing Bob Hope.

[Woody Allen]

Oh, I did them all the time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, and that's good. You steal from the best. You know, I used to do them.

[Woody Allen]

When I, before I'd go out on a date with a girl. I wasn't thinking, gee, I'm going to be Alan Ladd or Gary Cooper and I'm going to be Bob Hope. And I, that's, I, that's who I was. That was my idol. And you can see him, me doing them in movies sometimes shamelessly. It's really, I mean, I'm really putting on his suit.

[Interviewer/Host]

As Jack Rollins would say, when you're being arrested for backing out badly in any hall and you're saying to the cop, this is not necessary. I don't mean to be facetious or didactic. That's Bob Hope through Woody Allen. And of course it's unrecognizable to most people. That's the great thing about being a bad impressionist. When you steal, nobody even knows.

[Woody Allen]

Nobody knows that you're stealing. Yeah, but I, I stole from him. I, I did a little documentary film honoring him for Lincoln center once, Dick Cabot. And I put together a thing and I, I did, I put in a scene next to his deliberately to show the audience how I was stealing from him. And it was a scene from my movie Love and Death. And I put it next to one of his scenes and you could see it there because I highlighted it and you could see the, you know, the same. I, you know, he was just a great, great influence on me both in life before I go out for an evening with a young woman I would put on and of course I was never myself. You know what they must have been thinking, who this idiot is that I'm out with tonight who's cracking these one liner jokes? Constant mean.

[Interviewer/Host]

But it's better when someone gets to, I mean, he lived to 97, as I recall.

[Woody Allen]

He did. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's better when someone in their later years doesn't become something that makes you go, you didn't. Despite what the idiots who witch hunted. You want to make people believe you didn't. You're the same guy.

[Woody Allen]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

You didn't become Bob Hope.

[Woody Allen]

I'm hoping in the second half of my life I live up to that. No, Groucho Was. Was a guy who aged and didn't lose his touch.

[Interviewer/Host]

Groucho. Let me ask you this. If you think you've never made a great movie, how come all your idols, the people you idolized, were your fans? I'm talking about Groucho Marx, S.J. perlman, Tennessee Williams, Fellini, Bergman, all these people who are your idols, they all were your fans. It's in the book.

[Woody Allen]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

How could you not make a great movie if they all liked you?

[Woody Allen]

They were fans. But I think if we got down to specifics with them, they would say, yes, I liked him, he was very good. He did this and this. But no, I wouldn't say he really. Any movie he made equaled City Lights or Kurosawa's movies or Bergman's movies or for the movie.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it has to be right at the tippy, tippy top of the movies that I may never see.

[Woody Allen]

That was the biggest surprise. I'm watching.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm going to watch them.

[Woody Allen]

That's the big surprise from this conversation to me, that you. Because you would enjoy them, they'd be meaningful to you in terms of content and intellect. And you would love the actual.

[Interviewer/Host]

Let's just say I saved it for my 70s. I saved something in my life. Isn't it good? Because all.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, you can look. Yeah, you look forward to them. Yes, you can look forward to those movies.

[Interviewer/Host]

I will definitely look for. I mean, I wish I could see. I know, I know. You probably are never going to appear in another movie. You're certainly too old to play the ingenue.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, that was the director when I stopped being young enough to play the love intro.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, well, men get a bigger break on that than women.

[Woody Allen]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, how old were you when you made Deconstructing Harry?

[Woody Allen]

I don't know. I. I don't know how old.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. But you. It was not. It was not something that made people go, oh, that's ridiculous.

[Woody Allen]

You didn't throw up.

[Interviewer/Host]

You didn't throw up. What more greater benchmark can we have than that for filmmaking? You didn't throw up.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, that's the quote we used in the picture to sell it.

[Interviewer/Host]

But I love that one because it's dirty. Like you say fuck and cunt and like, it's. And I never saw you do that before. So much.

[Woody Allen]

Did I. Was I dirty?

[Interviewer/Host]

It was. I loved it. It was very. Not very, but like. No, but yeah, there was. That character said some dirty things.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. I'm surprised because I was always very careful about that.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's why I loved It. Because you weren't. Also had those jump cuts. Remember that in Deconstructing Harry?

[Woody Allen]

I don't remember the picture. No. I mean, I remember some things in it, but I don't remember.

[Interviewer/Host]

You don't remember doing those jump cuts where it's like.

[Woody Allen]

I don't. Because I've done jump cuts in some movies. I know, I don't, I don't. I don't remember. Well, anyway, I was always very clean in my movies and not, not because of any prudish impulses, but I always felt. Felt it was, you know, unless you needed to do something what they called dirty. It wasn't dirty, but that's how they refer to it, that you didn't need it. I never showed too much violence in my movies. Not because I hate. I love violence. I mean, in Bonnie and Clyde, I think it's brilliant, but it's. All those things are used so to substitute for good drama. People think it's very dramatic or it's very funny or outrageous because it's dirty or it's.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, no, no, you're not. I mean, you are the farthest thing from dirty. When I read that Ed Sullivan and Jack Par both accused you of being.

[Woody Allen]

Dirty, I thought, yes, yes, they did. Oh, what. Well, in those days.

[Interviewer/Host]

But what was it, what was it that got their panties in a bucket?

[Woody Allen]

The slightest kind of sexual reference. Mild. So mild it would be ridiculous. You wouldn't consider it dirty at all. But they were, you know, they were prudish about their shows and their audiences and.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you could still be in a movie, just not the love interest. Unless the woman's 80.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, it's hard to be in, you know, I don't want to do a geyser movie. A Geyser movie?

[Interviewer/Host]

No, but like. No, but what you could do is just not be the lead character. That's almost better, you know, just be an older. A 90 year old person who's in the story. Because we like it when you're in the movie.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you look the same.

[Woody Allen]

But I like to get the girl. I like to sit opposite the girl over candlelight.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you can't.

[Woody Allen]

No, I can't. I know I can't. I can't. What do I.

[Interviewer/Host]

You can't. You have to come to terms with. I mean, mortality. I mean, does it. You ever like. I mean, you seem to have this pessimistic view that I'm going to die and blah, blah, blah, which I guess.

[Woody Allen]

It'S not so pessimistic, you know, it's probably going to happen.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, it's probably going to happen. But I mean, does that give you any second thoughts? Do you ever hedge your bets about now? I don't know if you call yourself an atheist. I think we're both very much on the same page with that opportunity. I proudly say the word, but I don't know if you do. But we both. I mean, you've said in the book, religion's a hustle. You think God is a crass bungler. This sounds exactly like what I think. But does it make you ever go, whoa, maybe I should like start believing just in last minute?

[Woody Allen]

KO I think you either have that gift or you don't. I don't. So I couldn't. But you know, I always envy people who actually believe in God. It's a great, great gift. Tremendous gift.

[Interviewer/Host]

People who put their head on the pillow at night and say, I know that if I die in my sleep, I'll go to a better place and.

[Woody Allen]

Believe it not because they're not doing it for any other reason. I was not blessed with that. No.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, when you think about the changes just from one generation, I mean, what year was your father born?

[Woody Allen]

1900.

[Interviewer/Host]

1900. My father was born in 1921. That's. We're 20 years apart. Same thing. I mean, when you. That's just. That's just one generation we have. I mean, just the smartphone. Forget about AI if they rip and winkle their way back to life, your father or my father, coming from a time. Your father before radio. Radio. Well, I mean, it's just mind boggling how much change takes place.

[Woody Allen]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

In a single generation. Really does.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. Yeah. If you think back. If I think back to my grandfather, I mean, I think back to Lincoln.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, Abraham Lincoln.

[Woody Allen]

Abraham Lincoln. Same guy, Right. This is a.

[Interviewer/Host]

There was a Phil Lincoln.

[Woody Allen]

Gay. No, I'm thinking of Abraham.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. No, I know.

[Woody Allen]

And yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

But your father, interesting the way you write about him. You know, one of the funniest things, the gag and radio days that killed me was, you know, your father was kind of a wily, Odysseus kind of character.

[Woody Allen]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know?

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, he was. He was shifty.

[Interviewer/Host]

Shifty and shifty. Right. And so the kid, you know, is acting up at the table and the mother's always like, stop it. Your father worked so hard and the kid keeps saying, at what?

[Woody Allen]

That's right. You never knew in my family.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, I accept. He worked hard. Doing what?

[Woody Allen]

Well, you knew your father's job, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

I did.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, you did. You had you had a stable home.

[Interviewer/Host]

I did. I was very lucky. Well, you did, too.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, I was very loving. I have no excuses. I had loving parents and friends. I love. It was nice to me. And I grew up Ms. Misanthropic. And. And they were married, depressed and.

[Interviewer/Host]

70 years.

[Woody Allen]

My parents.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, yeah. That's as long as I've been out of space. What?

[Woody Allen]

Out of spite, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a great line. Out of spite.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. They stayed together, but I had a, you know, a very nice childhood. All my relatives loved me and everything was great. I should have been a very happy, sweet, nice, good natured person. But I turned out to be misanthropic, neurotic, hypochondriacal, depressed. I don't know why.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm not bad to other humans.

[Woody Allen]

No, no.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Woody Allen]

I mean, a misanthrope doesn't trust them, doesn't like them. But I'm not bad to them. I'm not cruel or anything. I'm nice to people.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, I'm.

[Woody Allen]

But I. But I, you know, I don't like them. I. I don't.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. You say in the book you don't like meeting new people.

[Woody Allen]

No, I don't.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you don't like to be wherever you are.

[Woody Allen]

Right. So welcome chronically unhappy. Chronically deception.

[Interviewer/Host]

Must be miserable right now.

[Woody Allen]

Chronically unhappy, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. New Yorker syndrome.

[Woody Allen]

I wonder. Maybe it is. Maybe, you know, someone standing outside looking at New York would say, you know, there's millions of people that live here and a good portion of them have that syndrome.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you also have wondrous things in your life. I mean, okay, your parents had a marriage that was out of spite, but the way you describe your marriage, completely idyllic.

[Woody Allen]

It is. It's great.

[Interviewer/Host]

I lucked out, right?

[Woody Allen]

Lucked out completely.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. I mean, you say, you know, you eat every meal together.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, and this has been going on for 30 years, basically.

[Woody Allen]

We've been married for about 30 years. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, that's.

[Woody Allen]

It's just.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's a crazy world.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

It is amazing, though, the way the media gets stuff very often not just wrong, but, like, diametrically wrong. Like, and I know from things they've written about me, when you read about yourself, it's what you say to yourself is, wait, this is the one subject I know really well, me. I know what I said. I know what I do. So, like, like, if I'm reading about me and it has no relation to reality, how can I trust what you're saying about Anything. Iran, plastics, fucking.

[Woody Allen]

I've asked that question at times in show business that I would see things that his movie is based on this or he's done. He's doing a book about this, and it's completely untrue. And I think to myself, okay, these are trivial things. I'm not, not doing a movie about that. I didn't get the idea for this movie from that. So what must be going on in a, in, you know, when they talk about wars and taxes and the government. And I asked the journalist that once and he said, well, it's different. They're not as scrupulous on the show business stories. He said, when it comes to the serious things, they are more accurate and they do try harder. When it comes to the, you know, the show business stories, they, they're, they don't have the same level of.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm not sure I have. And I'm not sure I have your confidence in that part of it either. I mean, you, you're, you're a lot calmer than I would be if I had been in your situation with. I mean, you say you're disillusioned with liberals, I'll bet, but, you know, like the last 10 pages, you kind of finally ride. It's awesome. You kind of. But even then, you know, it's done in such a particular and professional way. It never gets nasty. It just. It sticks to what you can prove, basically.

[Woody Allen]

But, yeah, I'm not nasty by nature.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, but you. But the disillusion. I mean, look, you did a movie. You again lent yourself out as an actor, which you don't do a lot for the blacklist. I mean, the front. Yeah, okay, well, you must have. I know you did notice the sort of recapitulation of the witch hunt. I mean, obviously that was about the witch hunting communists to. Then what happened to you. And I mean, I've hardly been the first one to notice that, you know, the kind of moralizing that we used to hate from the right, you know, the Jerry Falwells of the world. Then it came from the left. I mean, I've had it happen to me on a much lesser scale than you, but it is, I, I find it a bitter pill from.

[Woody Allen]

It comes from both sides.

[Interviewer/Host]

It does.

[Woody Allen]

It comes from the right and the left.

[Interviewer/Host]

Mostly what happened to you came from the left. You were a victim of over excesses of the MeToo movement and wokeness and a lot of inconsistencies there. But, but yeah, I mean, but I.

[Woody Allen]

Was lucky because, you know, that could be Ruinous. Depending. When everything happened, I was much older. I had done 45 movies already. I had made enough money so I could retire for life comfortably. I was thinking, even I only want to make a few more movies, and then I would like to start to write books and plays. It happened to me at a time when it was no problem if it happened when I was 25 or 30.

[Interviewer/Host]

The first wave of it happened. First wave of it happened in 1993, when you were first with Soon Yi. That was a giant scandal. But what people forget, maybe, is that for years after that, you were golden.

[Woody Allen]

I didn't have any real practical problems.

[Interviewer/Host]

A list star, if they got a.

[Woody Allen]

Call.

[Interviewer/Host]

Woody Allen wants you in his movie, they would all do it with. For very little money. You know, it was just a super prestigious thing that then went to the. I mean, you have a great line about, like it. It became the thing to do, not to work with me the way, you know, suddenly people wanted Kale.

[Woody Allen]

Yes. And I. But. But it amused me. Cause it didn't. It didn't.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's awful.

[Woody Allen]

So it didn't have any. As a practical thing, it was not hurtful to me, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, come on. Yes, it was. Well, I mean, it.

[Woody Allen]

No, it wasn't. As I'm talking about, as a practical matter, you know, I was. I was. As I say, I was in my 80s and I had made so many movies, and I, you know, it didn't matter. It didn't hurt me. If I was 30 or 40, it would have been career ending. But disillusionment. But it wasn't my career was, you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Know, disillusionment is disillusionment at any age. I mean, you must. I know you said in the book you were disillusioned at the justice system. I thought that was fascinating.

[Woody Allen]

Well, that's different.

[Interviewer/Host]

I was so naive. I thought there was a penalty for perjury.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, you're shocked because most people don't find themselves in a situation, in a courtroom, near a courtroom, and people are perjuring themselves one after the other. And you think, well, isn't this against the law? But you find out that it isn't exactly what you think, that, yes, it's against the law, technically, but nobody does anything about it. I found the whole thing an interesting and amusing experience in many ways, and only because. Because I had already, as I said, done so many movies and had accumulated enough personal financial resources so that, you know, I wasn't hurt by it. But if I was 40 or 50 or 30 or something, it Would have been very, very painful. But at the point that it happened.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you're still.

[Woody Allen]

It just wasn't.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're still.

[Woody Allen]

And I'm not nasty.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, I remember once I got a dui, which is not nearly what you went through, but, you know, they make it go through a 14 week program and go to AA meetings and like you are entrapped into the criminal justice system again at a very low level. But even at that level, I was like, whoa, this is awful. I mean, first of all, there's a lot of people who love it that they just have complete power over you and whatever you. Because now you're in the system, this system, it gives you a great insight into what it must be like, you know, for black Americans who were at the shitty end of the justice system for their whole existence.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, but I was lucky because I.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, I am saying it. But it gives you an insight when you see the justice system up close. Yes, it's sobering.

[Woody Allen]

Right. But fortunately, I was never really in the system because I was charged.

[Interviewer/Host]

Of course you were. There were two police investigations.

[Woody Allen]

Yes, but I was never charged with anything. I was found. I know, but I was found that nothing ever happened.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know.

[Woody Allen]

Both investigations. So. So I never really suffered as much as you might think. But I will say it was fortunate. It came at a fortunate time in my life because I didn't have to worry about money and I didn't have to worry about making films. I made them and I, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, you were much younger when those two police investigations were going on. I would be shitting in my pants if the police were investigating me.

[Woody Allen]

Not if you're. You don't. If you're innocent.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, except innocent people sometimes don't get. I mean, humans are making these judgment calls and we know what we think of humans.

[Woody Allen]

I don't think much of humans, but I do have great, great faith in evidence. So I never for a second had a bad moment because I felt. I felt it was kind of amusing to turn on the television set and see people talking about it when I knew. Knew what the situation was in there.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you have no bitterness toward the people who renounced you? I mean, there are some people who defended you, like Scarlett Johansson and, well, me, but I'm not in movies. Alec Baldwin, all your.

[Woody Allen]

No, they were.

[Interviewer/Host]

They were ex lovers. No, Diane Keaton.

[Woody Allen]

These are. These are people that just made a mistake. They. I don't. I'm not criticizing them.

[Interviewer/Host]

The renouncers.

[Woody Allen]

They. They think. Or thought, whatever the occasion was, that they were doing the right thing, but they were not. Coward.

[Interviewer/Host]

No, they didn't. They're cowards. Are you kidding? Timothy Chalamet, look, he's a great actor. I'm not trying to pick a fight with him. Not that he would care, but, you know, I saw him on his campaign for the Dylan movie, which he was incredible in. But this boy wants an Oscar more than his next brother breath. He'd throw his mother under the bus. Okay, so I can't, like, quite sit back as well as you can with this equanimity and say, oh, that. Or Greta Gerwig, who renounced you and, oh, I'm so sorry. I work with him. Okay. You know, she's a big movie director.

[Woody Allen]

They're making a mistake. They're. You know, they're not. First of all, I had a good time working with both of them, and they. They think that they're doing something honorable or helpful, but they're not. They're just. They guessed wrong. They made a wrong decision on that. Someday, maybe they'll realize it. Maybe it will be clear to them for whatever reason. Maybe it never will be. But that's all that they've done, is made a mistake.

[Interviewer/Host]

But it's just. They're such sheep, you know, it's like, look, the press loves to anoint people. You were anointed for a long time. You were the most anointed person. I mean, the New York Times was always. I mean, you were the greatest thing ever, and you were making great movies.

[Woody Allen]

The issue was, it never resonated with me. So I just worked and did my movies, and the marriage was great. And, you know, I mean, it hasn't. It hasn't had a practical impact on me.

[Interviewer/Host]

You made a movie recently?

[Woody Allen]

You know, can we.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is that it?

[Woody Allen]

Well, I've written a novel recently.

[Interviewer/Host]

People see television more when you do a movie, and it goes right to streaming. Who cares? Who cares if you make them go to the movie theater? If they see it in their home, Isn't it more important than that?

[Woody Allen]

I don't know. I grew up making movies, and they went into movie theaters and it was a different phenomenon. I'm not happy with them going to screen screenings, and I just don't. Streaming. I'm sorry, it just doesn't interest me that much. So I don't care, you know?

[Interviewer/Host]

But people see it. More people will see it.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, more people see it, but that's not how I wanted to present it. I want to present it in a movie theater, on a screen, the way I Grew up watching movies, and if I can't, I don't think I want to make movies. I want to write novels or plays because. It's.

[Interviewer/Host]

Because you think the communal experience of a theater is important.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, the whole gestalt of the thing, the whole, you know, waiting in line and going in with a lot of people and sitting down with 500 people or 400 people and watching it together and then. Yeah, they're not isolated. Everybody isolated watching a movie at home. But, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

But, you know, this is a civilization gone with the wind, right? I mean, that civilization.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, yeah. And so I'm happy to, you know, I mean, make a movie maybe, but not. Not thrilled with it. It's. The excitement is gone. So that's why I wrote this novel. It was fun for me to write a novel, and it will be fun for me to write a couple of plays. I have a play that's in Europe that's going to come to the United States. You know, it's more interesting to me to stand in the back of a theater and watch.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do your kids ever argue with you about stuff like this? Your kids are, like, grown now, right?

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, but they're young adults.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're what?

[Woody Allen]

They're 26. I have two daughters who are 26.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. Do they argue with you about stuff like this? Do they? You know, do they. Is it the typical. No, dad, you or.

[Woody Allen]

No, they. They don't. They don't. They. They. Well, I didn't raise them as, you know, show business kids or movie kids. I didn't show them my movies. You know, eventually they caught up with a couple of them, but, no, they're. They're, you know. No, they don't argue with me. They argue with me about it a lot of things, but not that. Not that.

[Interviewer/Host]

What movies of yours did they like?

[Woody Allen]

Don't say it again.

[Interviewer/Host]

What movies of yours do they like?

[Woody Allen]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Really? That didn't come up with your own kids?

[Woody Allen]

No, because I. I don't know which one. They've seen some of my movies, but I don't know which ones they've seen. I've never, you know, I never visited that on them. They had two New York kids. They've gone to school in New York, and they've. And they. One works in the art world, the art gallery, and another one works, Emily in Paris, and, you know, but I never. I never pushed them in any way. I have a very, you know, nice, warm, loving relationship with them, and they. I never wanted to inflict. Oh, you gotta watch your father's movies. Or actually, the only movie I really ever inflicted on them, and it's not an infliction, it's a treat, was the Treasure of the Sierra Madre. I want them to see because I find that to be a great American movie. And I showed that to them and they liked it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I will put that on my list. With the Bicycle Thief.

[Woody Allen]

You never saw that?

[Interviewer/Host]

I may have seen that. Is that Humphrey Bogart?

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

And Casablanca. Do we like that one?

[Woody Allen]

You know, I'm not nuts about Casablanca. I mean, but you wrote the, the movie.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's apparent.

[Woody Allen]

I know, but see, people always associate these things with my life. I, I wrote because I thought I'd get jokes for it. The same way in Manhattan. I thought I'd get jokes with the older guy and the younger woman, and I thought, and play it again, Sam. I would get laughs doing stuff, bouncing off Casablanca. But, you know, the lady who used to write for the New York Times wrote a book about Casablanca. She was a critic for the New York Times or a feature writer, and she wrote a book about Casablanca. And she called me and I said, you know, I've never really sat through the whole picture. I don't. And she couldn't believe it. And I, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

What part made you drop off?

[Woody Allen]

I, I lost interest. I lost interest in it. And I'm a great Humphrey Bogart fan. I mean, I really.

[Interviewer/Host]

Except for his movies. Except for his movies.

[Woody Allen]

No, no, no, no. I, I.

[Interviewer/Host]

What? So, okay, what other bogey movie do you like?

[Woody Allen]

Oh, I loved High Sierra and I loved Key Largo, and I loved the Kane Mutiny. And I, I just, I just. And, you know, there's something really New Yorky about him. I mean, he's really came from New York theater.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, he was that first generation of actors who had come from the theater, but most of them failed because they were theater actors and Bogey understood the medium, you know.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, he just had it. You can see, you know, you see him in scenes. I saw him in a scene. I can't remember who. It was just last week in some movie on Turner Classic Movies. And the guy with him. Oh, oh, it was the Harder They Fall. And Rod Steiger was acting with them. They were nose to nose acting. And Steiger was acting up the storm and Bogart wasn't doing anything. And he was just great. He was just, you know, there was no acting at all. He's just coasting on his personality and talking and, and it was just magnetic. I'm Just wonderful. The other guy's doing stuff. Stuff that nobody in life ever does. Nobody talks like that. Nobody carries on like that, but.

[Interviewer/Host]

So your advice to kids getting into the business is coast on your personality.

[Woody Allen]

It's do less. If I. If I've given one direction more than any other in my whole life to actors, it's do less.

[Interviewer/Host]

So when you. When you did decide to have a surrogate, shall we call that play you. Because there are parts you could have played.

[Woody Allen]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you chose John Cusack, or you chose Kenneth Branagh, or you chose Mia. What went into. Why? Like, why did you, some of the times say, I'm gonna do it, and then some of the time say, I'm gonna have a surrogate deliver this baby?

[Woody Allen]

I don't think I ever had a surrogate when I could have done it. I mean, I don't think I could have. I don't think I could have played. You know, these are great actors you're talking about. Cusack's wonderful and Tennis Branagh's wonderful. And they were much younger than me. I couldn't have. If I could have done it, I would have done it. I always would do the part that I could do. But I aged out of it. You know, I just. When I started to realize that I was not going to be the love interest anymore, and I started to think, ah, do I really?

[Interviewer/Host]

You're the love interest in your life, with all the craziness and the Kafkaesque nonsense you went through. And I don't defend you because I'm a fan, although I plainly am. Although you've also made some turkeys. That's true, but I mean. But you could be the worst filmmaker. I defend you because I don't like witch hunts. They're bad for society, they're bad for people. They're wrong. They're immoral. That's why I definitely do it, not because I'm a fan.

[Woody Allen]

I'm sure you know, your Persona is much more socially engaged, much more politically engaged. So an issue. You would engage the issue on the merits of the issue.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes. And I see a connection between a lot of where the left went that I did not like in recent years, and this kind of case, this kind of moralizing, this kind of bullshit, standing apart from the facts, just wanting to look like we're the good people and we shun this person and this person is canceled and that kind of stuff. I don't like it in any of its dimensions. Look, I always say about these cases, if you're not in the room. Just don't say to me, I know you don't know. I don't know about you. Nobody knows except you. I would just say that of all those kind of cases, the preponderance of evidence on the one side makes it just very unlikely that you were guilty of this. It just, none of it makes sense.

[Woody Allen]

You know, I want to make one other point on what you were saying a moment ago. There's a difference between the MeToo movement and cancel Culture. I mean, the Me Too movement, for whatever value it had in terms of advancing women's rights, is a valuable thing. Cancel culture is a totally different phenomenon. It may be related to it. It may have been utilized by it or by various. It's been utilized by various. Cancel culture is a pernicious thing, and, you know, it's quite a bad thing. But in terms of, I always feel if, if you're going to be canceled by a culture, this is the culture to be canceled by.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Woody Allen]

You know, this is not a culture that you should be proud of, but there is a big difference. The MeToo movement may have helped women in many ways, and that's to the good. To the good, but the concept of canceling people is not about, I mean, went too far.

[Interviewer/Host]

You.

[Woody Allen]

It's not a good thing in any area. Forget about women or, you know, in terms of politics, in terms of, you know, the McCarthy era, cancellation is a. I mean, it's just not a way to deal with issues. It doesn't serve any purpose.

[Interviewer/Host]

But all of this has not turned you into a Trump.

[Woody Allen]

A Trump? No, I'm not a Trumper. I, I'm one of two people who can say he directed Trump. I directed Trump in a movie. No, celebrity in celebrity. And he was, you know, he was a pleasure to work with and a very good act. He was very polite. How dare you hit his mark and did everything correctly and had a real flair for show business.

[Interviewer/Host]

If you think you were canceled before.

[Woody Allen]

I could direct him now if he would let me. If he would let me direct him now that he's president. I think I could, I could do wonders. But, but he was, but he was, he was very easy to work with.

[Interviewer/Host]

And No, I, I, Yeah, he's different in person. And when you say that, people who are just purely emotional get very upset, even though it's just the truth. We're just saying the truth.

[Woody Allen]

You know, I am a Democrat. I voted for Kamala Harris, and I, you know, take issue with him, you know, on 95% of the things, maybe 99%, but as an actor, as a. As, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Woody Allen]

He was very good. He was very convincing and very. You know, he has a charismatic quality as an actor. And I'm surprised he wanted to go into. Politics is nothing but headaches and critical decisions and agony. And this was a guy I used to see at the Knick games and he liked to play golf and he liked to judge beauty contests and he liked to do things that were enjoyable and relaxing. And why anyone would want to. To suddenly have to deal with the issues of politics is beyond me. But apparently he doesn't mind.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you don't think that going into politics is the ultimate acting job? I mean, that's the whole point about him being so different off stage. They got mad at me for saying this, is that it's an acting job. And they all do it to a degree. He just took it to a. Like, with everything with him, to the nth degree. But it is the ultimate acting job being with him.

[Woody Allen]

But that doesn't bother me. They're all. They all have to put on a certain patina for the public and all that. I disagree with many of. I would say almost. Almost all. Not all, but almost all of his politics, of his policies. But in terms. I can only judge, you know, what I know from directing him in the film. And he was, you know, and he was pleasant to work with and very professional, very polite to everyone and very, you know. But as I say, I would like to direct him now that he's president and have him let me make the decision.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I.

[Woody Allen]

But that's not going to happen.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'll make a call. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming here to California, even though we have sun. Horrible, terrible, wicked sun.

[Woody Allen]

Yeah, the sun doesn't. Well, it does kill me, actually.

[Interviewer/Host]

Sooner or later it won't. It will actually help you if you just get a little sun.

[Woody Allen]

I don't need that much vitamin D. You do.

[Interviewer/Host]

You absolutely do need vitamin D. The number.

[Woody Allen]

And I take it in a supplement, a little pill. I'll pop it in my orange juice.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, I don't think that can make up for all of what the sun itself has to do. The sun converts the vitamin D, so no matter how much you take, it has to be converted. I mean, this is the way it was designed by Jesus, Woody. And this is the world we live in. I didn't make it. I'm just trying to tell you you need a little sun, but sun. Do a little tanning.

[Woody Allen]

Let's get a little sun and stay a day.

[Interviewer/Host]

Later, we'll, we'll go out, we'll do a little tanning, and then we'll go to Palm Springs and pick up some.

[Woody Allen]

Girls like Bob Hope. Put on the lotion and lay back in the, in the chair.

[Interviewer/Host]

All right. Well, thank you. You're a treasure for a reason. Like I say.

[Woody Allen]

And the book, thank you very much.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is out in paperback, right? Apropos of nothing. Isn't that why we're here?

[Woody Allen]

Because it must be. No, we were here because. Because I have a novel coming out.

[Interviewer/Host]

A novel?

[Woody Allen]

A novel coming out in, in September called Watts with Baum. Okay. And, and I was really here to promote the novel. But, but we never got to it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Let's get to it.

[Woody Allen]

No, no, no. I know. No, no, I, I, I forced it in clumsily, but, but, but that's okay, because it's not going to sell anyhow, so why, why waste your time?

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm going to read it. No, it'll sell. You're Woody Allen. You can sell a book.

[Woody Allen]

You've been very, very. He rose his muscle. He's played Club Random.

[Interviewer/Host]

Club Random is brought to you by Radioactive Media, ranked number 20 on Inc. Magazine's fastest growing private companies in the Pacific region. You know what's oddly stable? Audio marketing. Yeah, talking into a microphone. Who knew podcasting now reaches more people than social media and digital combined. So if you're a mid sized company or a well funded startup and you actually want to be heard, text random to 511511 or visit radioactive media.com because shouting into the voice void is not a strategy.

[Sports Announcer]

New season, new chaos in college football.

[Interviewer/Host]

Big stage, big opportunity.

[Sports Announcer]

This Labor Day weekend, the wildness lives on ABC, ESPN and the AllNew ESPN app.

[Woody Allen]

What a way to start.

[Sports Announcer]

Featuring top 10 teams like Clemson, Notre Dame, Alabama and LSU. And Bill Belichick's debut at North Carolina.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's so special when these teams collide.

[Sports Announcer]

Don't miss a lineup filled with electric matchups.

[Woody Allen]

Welcome back to Collins Football Kickoff week.

[Sports Announcer]

Presented by Modelo Labor Day weekend on ESPN and abc. Also available to stream on the all new ESPN Apple.