BEST OF 2025 Part 2: Ocho vs Cam'ron, Shedeur Sanders FALLS to the Browns

Summary

Club Shay Shay – "BEST OF 2025 Part 2: Ocho vs Cam'ron, Shedeur Sanders FALLS to the Browns"

Date: December 25, 2025
Host: Shannon Sharpe
Featured Co-Hosts: Ocho (Chad Johnson), Cam

Episode Overview

This “Best Of” compilation pulls together the most gripping moments from Club Shay Shay’s coverage of hot sports debates, player drama, and major news stories in late 2025. The episode’s two headline topics are an intense (and at times comedic) exchange between Ocho and Cam’ron, and a deep breakdown of Shedeur Sanders’ impressive preseason debut with the Cleveland Browns. Other major talking points include the scandalous FBI arrests of NBA and NFL personalities in high-stakes gambling stings, NFL locker room stories, and a candid exploration of gambling addiction within pro sports. Expect a mix of humor, real talk, and classic Club Shay Shay chemistry.

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Key Segments, Insights, and Quotes

1. Ocho vs. Cam’ron: Setting the Record Straight

[03:26–16:13]

Ocho and Cam recount an off-mic conflict with Cam’ron that escalated into a public exchange online. Ocho clarifies his intent behind saying he was “coming for Cam’ron’s spot” professionally, which Cam’ron misinterpreted as disrespect.

• Ocho’s Clarification (03:34)

  “I’m coming for your spot because I see you as the standard that is setting the bar in that specific space.” — Ocho [03:34]

• On Representation and Business
  Cam commends Ocho for professional boundaries by letting his people handle negotiations, recounting:

  “You don’t represent yourself. That’s why you hire representation… You could save 3, 5, 10%, but you chose to have a representative that funnels everything through. I reached out to Doug because I knew Doug was your representative.” — Cam [08:48]

• Key Themes:

  • The importance of mutual respect and understanding intent, even while competing.
  • Professional standards in athlete media business (representation, deals).

• Comic Relief:
  Ocho jests about his busy career:

  “I got 50.11 jobs, unk… There’s levels to everything… You in one lane. I got about 50 levels of them.” — Ocho [10:46]

• On Avoiding Drama and Competition:
  Both hosts express that podcasting offers enough space for everyone:

  “Joe Rogan ain’t beefing with Caller Daddy… there ain’t no reason for us to be beefin’. There’s enough for everybody that choose to do this.” — Cam [13:18] “We ain't gonna let nobody trick us out our spot. No, especially about that money. Cause I got 50, 11 kids to raise, and I got a goddamn new house I got to decorate.” — Ocho [14:41]

• Squashing the Issue:

  “Like I said, I refuse to go back and forth. I don’t see really a need to… I wish you guys nothing but the best. But I do know there’s enough room for everybody to get a piece of this pie.” — Cam [15:21]

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2. Shedeur Sanders' Browns Debut: Deep Dive & Analysis

[18:37–37:15]

Ocho and Cam get granular on Shédeur Sanders’ first NFL preseason outing, with play-by-play breakdowns, draft criticism, and commentary on Browns fandom.

• Initial Browns Game Reactions:

  “Shador shines in his first preseason game. 11 of 19, 103 yards passing, two TDs… LeBron James even weighed in. That young king looking good out there. Shador Sanders, keep going up!” — Cam [18:37]

• What the Scouts Missed:
  Ocho argues the NFL underestimated Shedeur:

  “You cannot tell me, as any scout… watch film on Shador Sanders and what he did at Jackson State and Colorado and say, you know what? No, that's not my guy.” — Ocho [21:00]

• Technical QB Breakdown:

  • Calm under pressure, advanced progressions.
  • Touch and timing throws even under duress.
  • Great pocket presence compensates for average mobility.

  “The thing, what he lacks in athleticism and inability to get out the pocket. He has great pocket presence… when that clock is ticking and when it’s time to get up out of there.” — Ocho [24:41]

• Draft Motivation & Self-Belief:

  “The biggest thing that an athlete can have is the ability to believe that he belongs. I was a seventh round draft pick… But there is not one point in time that I didn’t feel I belonged on that field.” — Cam [37:38]

• Perspective on Hype:

  “I can’t think of the last time that everyone was excited about wanting to watch a Cleveland Browns game.” — Ocho [29:38]

• Anticipatory Skills:

  “Do you understand the anticipatory skills you have to have as a quarterback with pressure coming at you? There was one overthrow he couldn't even see—on the replay, we couldn't even see him. We just saw the ball come out.” — Ocho [35:53]

• Game Planning & The “Next Level”:

  “We’re just calling plays arbitrarily. I’m not game planning… I was impressed. Look, I understand it’s the preseason.” — Cam [30:36]

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3. NFL & Gambling: Tales From the Locker Room & The Big FBI Sting

[46:38–77:44]

A major portion shifts to a stunning breaking-news story: several NBA and NFL figures, including Chauncey Billups and Terry Rozier, are arrested in an FBI probe for illegal gambling and mafia connections. The hosts react in their signature, animated way—equal parts shocked, amused, and serious.

• Details of the Scandal:

  “Portland Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups and Miami Heat guard Terry Rozier were arrested by the FBI in separate gambling pros this morning. Billup’s arrest is related to illegal poker games tied to the Mafia.” — Cam [46:38]

  • Inside info on player injuries & games sold for betting purposes.
  • Advanced cheating mechanisms: “x-ray machines built into tables… contact lenses through glass that read marked cards… Secret cameras…” — Cam [47:07]

• The Broader Impact and Dangers:

  • The Mafia’s involvement is not just a throwback, but a real and present threat.
  • Both hosts stress how getting entangled with organized crime can endanger not just careers, but lives.

  “People just like letting it go. And they… Chauncey, Chauncey, and goddamn Terry Roa is the only ones that's on the news. Well, where's everybody else? ... They are the trophies.” — Ocho [62:17, 62:48]

• On Gambling Addiction (and Personal Stories):

  • Cam and Ocho share tales of lost fortunes, “whales,” and risk addiction.

  • Football dice games and cheating with "crooked dice":

    “If you want to break up a dice game, hit 10 or 4. I done saw cars don’t exchange hands. I saw a lot of ish happen with that 10 or 4.” — Cam [52:11]

  • On walking away:

    “Can you leave when you start to lose? The reason why the house wins so much: they can weather the storm.” — Cam [73:18]

• The Human Cost & Lessons:

  “I’m thinking about extortment. I’m thinking about once you tied into them, man. That’s you. Now you got a point shave now. You gotta feed them information.” — Ocho [58:29]

  • The episode touches on how NBA/NFL injury reports and fantasy sports changed the way fans and players themselves relate to gambling and pressure.

---

4. Locker Room Wisdom, Stories, and Spontaneous Gems

[41:31–45:06, Throughout]

When not discussing news or play breakdowns, the hosts riff on past NFL culture—hard-hitting practices, locker room brawls, legendary “thumpers,” and old-school toughness.

• Hitting in the 90s:

  “When. When I got in the 90s, shells were shoulder pads and shorts… and you know, we hit. 907 was live. Team was a solid thud up. You put shoulders on him, you put pads on him.” — Cam [41:34]

  “Atwater wasn’t the thumper like Dennis Smith. Kahuna was The Thumper. Number 49… Go back if y’all can find it, go back and check the tape.” — Cam [42:10]

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Memorable Quotes by Timestamps

• On Podcast Competition:
  “Joe Rogan ain’t beefing with Caller Daddy… there ain’t no reason for us to be beefing.” — Cam [13:18]

• On Professional Boundaries:
  “You don’t represent yourself. That’s why you hire representation.” — Cam [08:48]

• On Shédeur Sanders’ Debut:
  “He looked like he belonged. He looked different.” — Ocho [19:57]

• On Being Ready for Opportunity:
  “That’s what luck is, when preparation meets opportunity.” — Cam [28:33]

• On Gambling and Losses:
  “How do you lose 240 million? ... When you get down, you try to get it back.” — Ocho & Cam [64:14–66:05]

• On the Dangers of Mafia Ties:
  “Once you tied into them, man. That’s you… Now you got a point shave now. You gotta feed them information.” — Ocho [58:29]

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Notable Sections for Quick Reference

• Ocho/Cam’ron drama resolved: 03:26–16:13
• Shédeur Sanders Browns Analysis: 18:37–37:15
• NFL Practice Old School: 41:31–45:06
• FBI/Gambling/Mafia Discussion: 46:38–77:44
• Gambling Addiction & Big Whales: 64:14–73:48

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Tone & Language

This episode is a lively back-and-forth mix of streetwise humor, candid professional reality, and high-stakes storytelling. Ocho brings his trademark playful bravado and Cam brings thoughtful gravitas, while both operate with mutual respect and a sense of kinship (even when disagreeing).

Summary Takeaway

From headline beefs to breakout rookie performances, and from the perils of gambling to the wisdom of the locker room, Club Shay Shay’s “Best of 2025 Part 2” is an unfiltered highlight reel—full of laughs, hard truths, and the sharp sports commentary that the show’s become known for. Whether you’re tuned in for the football, the personalities, or the offbeat side stories, this episode delivers classic Club Shay Shay energy start to finish.

Transcript

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[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

Ocho, before we get into our first topic, something happened yesterday and you wanted an opportunity to respond. So the floor is yours.

[Ocho]

Oh, absolutely. Listen, listen, Cam. Cam has some, some, some, some stuff to say and I had, I had to think about it and I had to listen to it and, and think about some stuff that, that, that was brought up from two years ago where I said, cam, you my mans and I'm coming for your spot. Now, I'm not sure how that's taken as hate when all you have to do is understand that. I'm saying I'm coming for your spot because I see you as the standard that is setting the bar in that specific space. So you took that as an insult, which is weird to me. I'm not sure how you, how you can do that, but if you check the motherfucker, if you check the numbers, what I said I was gonna do, I've already done and surpassed that in this specific space. Now, he said, he asked me to come join them, you know, to do something with them. And I, I told him, you know, okay, you gotta check with my people. You gotta reach out to my people who, when I, when it was time for me to work with you, what did I ask you to do? Reach out to who?

[Cam]

I talked to Doug.

[Ocho]

You talked to Douglas. So, boom, we did like that. That's the way I handle business. I don't run nothing through me. So I guess that was seen as a sign of disrespect because I chose to come over here with you. Boom. Okay, now we brought up the issue with. He talking about money and bags and how much you pay. Guest feature. You know how much we pay our guest features, buddy. I ain't no guest feature, boy. I'm the main attraction.

[Cam]

What did you talk.

[Ocho]

What is you talking about? I always been the main attraction. There's a, There's a difference. In your lane, you do what you do. I'm in, I'm in completely different lanes and completely different rooms from you. Despite me always playing around and joking. It's different. For one, you wouldn't have been able to afford me to begin with. Let's start there. And I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. Un. I think because I do everything in entertaining, fun, laughing way, you kind of forget and don't really understand what's being done over here and how special what we have is. And that's no disrespect to them because I like. They show. I love it is what it is because it's different than what we do. Their views, they got some high ones, but it's mainly about going at people and jigging at people, you know, over here, it's about having fun, entertaining. And the stories.

[Cam]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Completely different. Two different shows. I love them, though. Then you know Cam, He's a Harlem dude. I've been to Harlem. My face is clean in Harlem most of the time. Those that I know from Harlem, you know, they don't act like that. You're getting a little emotional for nothing, especially about stuff.

[Cam]

One, I struggled. That allegedly happened two years ago.

[Ocho]

Two years ago. And it was a sign of respect because I see you as the standard of what it is to be the best at in this space. Right. Then the Stephen a. The Stephen a thing. You talk about weird, and I don't like. You don't like my vibes. Listen, for one, the whole world know I'm joking. And trolling is a funny story that wasn't even true to begin with. And you took that serious. So then, now you're getting personal with the words and the talking. I post my location, where I'm at every day. What you tell me to stop doing. Stop catching rides from the airport, right?

[Cam]

Yep.

[Ocho]

Everybody know where I am every single day. No matter what city I travel to, I'm outside all the time. And if it was really an issue or you really didn't like me and it was a problem, I'm easy to find, especially in Miami, if I'm not mistaken, you be here. Y' all film here. If I'm not mistaken. I show everybody respect. Huh? I show everybody love. What's one problem that you've always gotten on me about doing a show like this? I don't do enough. What? When it comes to talking about players, yeah.

[Cam]

You don't critique enough.

[Ocho]

I don't critique enough because I'm always showing love. I'm always showing respect no matter what. I never get out of line with nobody.

[Cam]

Right.

[Ocho]

But the words that were displayed as if it's a personal issue. Now, if it's a personal issue, which I've never had with anybody because I always show everybody love and respect. I'm easy to find because I'm outside always in Harlem, too. That's your stomping grounds, right? I'd be at Ricardo's all the time. Matter of fact, I'm gonna be in New York Monday, and I'm gonna be at Ricardo's at 5 o', clock, to be exact. But it's always love, no, never disrespect. And that's it.

[Cam]

And I love you.

[Ocho]

And I love.

[Cam]

And I.

[Ocho]

And I love you. Unless you want to go another route.

[Cam]

The way I look at it, oo, I think you explained too much. You did what you did. You don't. You're not. You don't represent yourself. Most people. That's why you hire representation. If you didn't want representation, you could have done it on yourself. And, yeah, you could save 3, 5, 10%, but you chose to have a representative that funnels everything through. I reached out to Doug because I knew Doug was your representative. I didn't reach out to you first. I reached out to Doug. I said, hey, man, what's up with OO Where I want to run something about OO funny. OO in town. Hey, can we meet at the Palm and such and such. Such and such a time. You showed up. I made the pitch to you. You say, uncle, I'm good. I said, well, let's don't even worry about the money. I trust you. So that was. That's what. That's how we handle that. I don't. Like. I said, look, people like, man, you don't. I say, bro, y' all gotta know what Ocho series, and y' all gotta know what Ocho joking. Y' all don't seem to know which is which. So that's on y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Cam]

I know when he's joking. I know when he's being serious. But for me, Ocho, and we had this conversation. You hit me up yesterday. I say, for me, I just let it rock. I felt just. Then you explained too much.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I did listen. Sometimes. Sometimes you got to clear the air, right? You got to clear the air. Cause then you have an issue, right?

[Cam]

Well, he could have called you, Ojo, if that was the case. If he had an issue with you, he could have reached out the phone and he could have called you.

[Ocho]

That's how I know it wasn't an issue. It wasn't no issue. For real. You have a show to do. He has a show to do. He has A show to do. And I understand that. I understand that. But the disrespect. You don't have to like me. I don't care about that part. Get in line. It's a lot of them, right? But the disrespect like that, and then you got the wrong people hearing it, and it's ruffling feathers. It really shouldn't be ruffling because I don't move like that. Never have.

[Cam]

But I think the thing is.

[Ocho]

Anyway. And then.

[Cam]

Hold on.

[Ocho]

Oh, and this is another thing.

[Cam]

What?

[Ocho]

Hold on. Didn't talk about the money and the pocket watching, Unc. I do. I have a question. Do they understand how many jobs I have? I'm just curious, unc. I got 50. 11 jobs, unk. Then you being slick in the mouth. Talk about if you need a job. I ain't hiring no more, Unc. This me. What did you talk. What are we talking about? There's levels to everything. You in one lane. I got about 50 level of them. There's a difference. But because I play around and have fun with it, for some reason, you think we on the same level. It ain't never been that even when you was in your prime. There's a difference.

[Cam]

I wouldn't. I'm humble. Well, see. Nah, nah. I am glad. But see, when everybody was coming for Unk, you, like, unknown, I tried to tell you that don't come to you.

[Ocho]

What did I tell you? What did I tell you? I was your enforcer, right?

[Cam]

I just let that ish go.

[Ocho]

I said I was your enforcer. I'm not saying anything wrong. I'm just addressing what was addressed towards me in a respectful way. In a respectful way still, right?

[Cam]

As a small reminder for me, Ocho, the reason why I stopped and I said, I'm not going back and forth with nobody. And there've been a couple of guys still taking shots. They got too much money at stake. I'm not.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, hey, say it again one more time.

[Cam]

We got too much money at stake. Too much money at stake. And if Master P. Master P and Gilly say, boy, say, if you ain't careful, they'll trick you out your spot. They're not finna get me out this spot.

[Ocho]

No, no, no. That ain't even happening.

[Cam]

Cause that ain't gonna happen. Cause I wish. Hey, whatever issue y' all may or may not have, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know anything about this. All I know is that, Ocho, you and I, hey, we do Nightcap. We do what we do, and we keep it moving. We don't talk about. We don't talk about anybody else on their podcast, no matter what they say about us, no matter what they do. Whatever their numbers are, whatever their views, whatever the downloads, whatever advertising or sponsorship they have, congratulations. Because what I know, 80% of the money that's in circulation was printed in 20 moving forward. So guess what? If the government runs out of money, they'll print more. There's enough for everybody that choose to do this.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

Nightcap. All the smoke, the pivot. It is what it is. Whomever podcast p. Whoever have a podcast, there ain't no reason for us to be beefing. Joe Rogan ain't beefing with Caller Daddy. They're not beefing with Caleb. They're not beefing with Theo Vaughn. I don't know why. We got issues.

[Ocho]

Listen, we don't have no issues. But you.

[Cam]

Why we gotta address. Why we gotta address it.

[Ocho]

Listen, listen. This is what call you. Wait, listen to me. This is what you gotta do. You know, if somebody says something, then it's our right to respond.

[Cam]

It is.

[Ocho]

Listen to me. Let me finish now, in a respectful way. In a respectful way, what? There's a misunderstanding? Because for one, like I said, what was said in that tweet out two years ago, it was a sign of respect. Boy, I'm coming for your spot because I see you as that boy.

[Cam]

You should have addressed it then. Why address it now?

[Ocho]

Because it's good. It's good. It's not a bad thing. Huh? You know, but again, I always show love and respect to everybody. Always. Now, you don't have to like me, but you really respect me. And if they. Listen, if there is an issue, I post everywhere I'm at, and we'll never change that. Everywhere.

[Cam]

Well, can we move on now? Cause I think we've given them 17 minutes too much of our time.

[Ocho]

No, wait a minute. That's what it's about. That's what it's about. It is what it is. We love what they do. I love what they do. You feel me? It's a funny show. Them boys funny. You know, we got our own. We got our own thing. We do our thing in our lane. Like you say, it's enough room for everybody. We ain't gonna let nobody trick us out our spot. No, especially about that money. Cause I got 50, 11 kids to raise, and I got a goddamn new house I got to decorate. Now, where we at?

[Cam]

We good?

[Ocho]

Huh?

[Cam]

We good? We done with this topic. We done with this chat? Don't jump in there and say, but did you see what he said? I don't care. They can talk about me all they want to. Hey, I don't Ocho. Hopefully Ocho is done with this. They come to he said what he said, Ocho responded, hopefully we can move on. But for me, I ain't got no issue with nobody. Like I said, I refuse to go back and forth. I don't see really a need to, whether or not they like us or like me or dislike Ocho or whatever the case may be. I wish you guys nothing but the best. But I do know there's enough room for everybody to get to get a piece of this pie. And so that's the way I'm gonna approach it. So I'll be Whoa, hold on, hold on.

[Ocho]

Come on with that humble shit. There's enough room for everybody to get a piece of the pie. But you know who gonna get the bigger piece, man? Huh?

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[Ocho]

Today for the pie. But you know who gonna get the bigger P.

[Cam]

Shador shines in his first preseason game. 11 of 19, 103 yards passing, two TDs. You know Coach prime was was fired up. Time. Yes Lord, yes. Shador Sanders oh yeah. What now Coach Prime? God is good. Shout out to Coco Butter brothers for sending us this video. LeBron James even weighed in. That young king looking good out there. Shador Sanders Keep going up, head down and grind and head high to the most and head high to the most high. Jordan Schultz Text from a high ranking AFC north executive on the Browns rookie Shador Sanders. It's early but wow. Actually shocked how good he looks. Nike Football when you get your opportunity, create the next one. Only matter of time. Yeah Ocho. Yeah, we could look, we could pick two plays. Ocho. Well damn, he missed the samstrong safety blitz where he had a guy ride over to the flat on 2nd and 18 and he skipped the ball to him. But you saw that over route that Brock Purdy throws so well in the San Francisco offense. You see him fit the ball into those tight, those small windows. Did you see him on the move throw that touch pass? Now the receiver made a great one handed catch, but did you see the touch?

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Cam]

So take off your hand.

[Ocho]

Listen, I wanted to see what Shador would look like in a situation that wasn't advantageous to him. He didn't get any reps, as many reps as he should to prepare himself to be prepared for a game like this, of this magnitude. Dylan Brooks hurt Kenny Pickett hurt Joe Flacco not playing. So the card that he was dealt to go into this game. Can you be a leader of men? Can you go in calm, show a presence of leadership, run the team, command the team, show that regardless of who's around you, you can still conduct Yourself, like quarterback one. He was calm under pressure, went through his progressions, made some great throws, had some air and throws. You know, obviously, that's what film is for. That's what the precinct is for, to fix the nooks and the crannies to get him out. He looked like he belonged. He looked different.

[Cam]

He did.

[Ocho]

Andrew Barry, you made the right call. There's a reason that you wanted him. There's no reason he should have dropped as far as he did. You cannot tell me, as any scout, of those 32 teams that didn't need a starting quarterback, for those that needed a quarterback and were in need of one, watch film on Shador Sanders and what he did at Jackson State and we did at Colorado and said, you know what? No, that's not my guy. The quote you just read from the scout in the AFC north, if you watch film, what did you expect him to look like? He looked exactly like he looked in Colorado. He looked exactly like he looked at Jackson State. Calm under pressure in the pocket, going through progressions, making the right throws.

[Cam]

That's what you see. What they expected to see and what some hope to see might be two entirely different things.

[Ocho]

Talk to me now, now.

[Cam]

Hope, man, I sure hope, man, I sure hope this happens. Man versus expect. To see what I wanted to see. I wanted to see exactly what you wanted to see. I want to see could he play with poise? Could he throw the ball with conviction? Could he be decisive? Could he go through his progressions? The pocket collapses. Could he take off. He showed me some of everything. The over route, threw it on timing guy in his face, let him. Boom. Dropped it right in the bucket. He fit those balls. A pressure in his face. The second touchdown. Pressure in his face. The first touchdown. The corner slumps off the flat. The safety is hugging him. He piss it in, gets it in. Boom. On the move. The touch pass over the top. As I mentioned, at the top, the receiver did make a great play, but Shador had a nice loft. That's not an easy throw to make. He was impressive tonight.

[Ocho]

Very.

[Cam]

And a lot of people, they were in the chat last night. Let's see what Shador does. Let's see what Shador does. Well, hold on.

[Ocho]

You know what they're gonna say now? Oh, it's the preseason. Oh, he's not playing against their starters. Oh, he's playing against the hell.

[Cam]

He didn't have the starters either.

[Ocho]

Well, hello.

[Cam]

I didn't see Jerry, Judy. I didn't see in Joku. I didn't see the starting Offensive line, no Cedric Tillman.

[Ocho]

So this is what I have to say to those who are going to have another excuse. They're going to move the goal post, right? They're going to move the goal post and say, well, he wasn't going against the Panthers starters. Well, obviously, if he's not going against the Panthers starters or if he doesn't have his starters as well and what he has at his disposal and look that good with the twos and threes and maybe the fours that are trying to make the team, what do you think is going to happen when he has the main characters in there around him, Right. That makes your job a little bit easier that are a little bit better at their position than those that he playing with tonight. What you think going to happen?

[Cam]

Well, they can try to move the goal post, but I ain't trying to kick a field goal or Pat, so I'm going to score anyway. And Shador Sanders scored tonight. I'm gonna give credit where it's due. 14, 23, 138 yards, two touchdowns, no interception. He got two sacks. Like I said, we can nitpick a couple of things. Yeah, that's a strong safety. The Sam Strong safety blitz probably like, you know what? But it looked like he was telling the guy, bro, I need you to hook up on that. You probably not going to be able to outrun the safety. Lamar Jackson, hold on to the ball a little longer because he could outrun the safety. Josh Allen, same thing. That's not Shador. Shador is not a. A mobile quarterback. He's going to do all most. The majority of his damage is going to be in the pocket. Ocho. I'm not saying he's Tom Brady, but he has the athleticism. That's not what he's known for. Go ahead, Ocho.

[Ocho]

This is the thing, what he lacks in athleticism and inability to get out the pocket. He has great pocket presence, huh? Being able to move and being able to not telegraph, but understand when that clock is ticking and when it's time to get up out of there. Right. He can move extremely well within the pocket without having to take sacks. What about the third down, huh? The third down. We scrambled the D line, ran a stunt. He was able to get outside of it.

[Cam]

I like. You know what I like the most? He saw the stunt and took off immediately.

[Ocho]

Yes. Yes.

[Cam]

That's what I like, Ocho. That's what I like. Oh, y'. All. Oh, I don't know who's supposed to go first and who's Supposed to. I don't know who's supposed to eat or who's supposed to tee, and I don't know who's supposed to tee. Right. Supposed to eat. But I tell you what, I'm gone.

[Ocho]

I'm gone.

[Cam]

Yeah. Yeah, y'. All. I tell you what y' all figured out in film study tomorrow. But in the mean, in the meantime, I'm about to pick up this. I'm about to pick up the first down he's played himself. He might have started after 4, but after this performance, he can't be number 4. Cuz here's the thing. Oo how told us something very, very interesting. He says you can lose your job because of injury. Because let me tell you what's gonna happen.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yeah.

[Cam]

If you get injured and you're out and a guy comes in and he's playing better than you before you got injured, it's his job. Now ask yourself, was Dylan Gabriel, before he got hurt, was he playing better than what you saw Shador Sanders do tonight? Kenny Pickett? Ask yourself this question. Was he playing better than what Shador was then? What should do or play tonight? Yeah. So if you're gonna honestly ask us, ask. Answer those questions. Okay.

[Ocho]

Right. And the thing about it, what people need to understand for those that in the chat, it's one thing to have joint practices, it's one thing to practice against yourself and look good against your players. Yes. Everything is scripted, even defensively in those joint practices at times, because there's certain things they want to work on defensively and there's certain things that you want to work on offensively. When you get into the game, nothing. Nothing is shared from team to team.

[Cam]

No.

[Ocho]

So it's a green light and everything going as if it's a real game. You're working your scheme, your game plan, and all you have to do, execute it in its simplest form. As simple as preseason games are from an offensive perspective in the way the plays are called. And he did that tonight to a hell of a job. One hell of a job tonight. And this is just something to continue to build off of, clean up. There were some mistakes. Obviously, they're going to always be mistakes and things you can get better at. And you continue to see different looks, you're not going to get many looks. Obviously, it's the preseason. Everything you see defensively will be very vanilla, you know, cover tool. Sometimes you might throw in, you know, main.

[Cam]

Don't count the plays, Ocho. Make the plays count.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, and listen, he made him count the night on that's what you have.

[Cam]

To do when you're a low round draft pick, Ocho. Me being a no bar being. Being a low round draft pick, Ocho, you're not going to get the plays that a high round draft pick is going to get.

[Ocho]

No.

[Cam]

So don't go out there thinking that. But when it's your time, shine.

[Ocho]

Yes, you got to.

[Cam]

When is your time shine? And that. Hey, you say I don't count time. I make time count. Well, I didn't count plays, as my brother used to say. Hey, I know you ain't get that many reps. Keep your head up. Cause one day John Elway gonna call for you. He gonna look for you. You need to make sure you ready. You need to be make sure you where you're supposed to be, Right? Shador didn't get a whole lot of reps. But when opportunity presents itself, that's what luck is, is when preparation meets opportunity. Ahmanson said some call it luck.

[Ocho]

I'm glad you just said what you just said. You just said Shadora didn't get as many reps as you should have in practice. But he got into a game and what did he do? Huh?

[Cam]

Right. But the ref that he did get in practice, he made those counts. Because a lot of times I've seen it. I don't know if you've seen it on your. I've seen guys, man, I ain't getting no burn, man. I can't.

[IBM Representative]

Right?

[Cam]

And then when you get out there, you effing up.

[Ocho]

He's up. Yeah, my bad.

[Cam]

Shador says, hey, these one or two reps I might get with the three. The threes and fours, right? I gotta make these counts. These got to be my. This has got to be my best work of the day.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yeah.

[Cam]

Because you know why, Ocho? It might be my only work of the day. Yeah. So if it's my only, it's got to be my best. Because this is the only time they're going to see me on tape. They see me standing behind and you know, hey, I'm being positive. A good throw, a good catch, good run, good job. Offensive line, good play call, coach. But at the end of the day, I need to get an opportunity to show you what I can do. And when the opportunity presents itself, I. That's what luck is. Preparation meeting opportunity. Ahmanson said some call it luck.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, listen, I'm happy. I'm happy for young Bull. I'm happy for young Bull. This is one of the few times I can't Think of the last time that everyone was excited, excited about wanting to watch a Cleveland Browns game.

[Cam]

Did you see all them people in the stands with the 12 and with the signs? Did you see all that on Joe.

[Ocho]

A Cleveland Browns game.

[Cam]

Cleveland on the road. Cleveland don't travel like that. Trust me. I was in the same division with them jokers. Yes. And guess what? We used to play them same, same. They don't trade. They didn't travel like that.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

And they ain't got no reason to travel because they've been bad a long time.

[Ocho]

Yeah. So listen, tonight we saw a very small sample size. We saw a very small sample size.

[Cam]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Of what Shador Sanders can look like. The fact that he played with the twos, with threes, maybe against twos and threes. For sure. I say, I say this to say that what happens when he's with the ones having to run that same offense, Right?

[Cam]

And you, and you guess what? And you go and you game plan. I'm just calling plays arbitrarily. Oo, that's it.

[Ocho]

That's all they doing tonight.

[Cam]

I'm not game planning. I'm not game planning because we normally game plan, game three. Right. We go back and now the coaches go back and they look at what they did last season and we script the game plan. That's going to be what we think we're going to see on first down, second down, third down, third and short, third and long. This down in distance area of the field. First and goal. Second and goal. Third and goal. Now we're calling plays not just to arbitrarily call plays. We're calling plays with a purpose, for a purpose, and eventually they're going to get to that. But I was impressed. Look, I understand it's the preseason.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

But for someone that didn't get as many reps, right. Made the refs that he did get, he made them count in practice. And when he got his opportunity, when it. Opportunity presented itself, he took full advantage. Tom Brady opportunity presented itself, which is.

[Ocho]

Hey, when the rubber meet the what?

[Cam]

When the rubber meet the road, man. And so Shador, he should, he should be proud of himself. Yes. You know, him being who he is, raised how he was raised, supposed to say reared. I guess you raise livestock and animals. But anyway, raised how he was raised, he's not going to be. He's not going to be. He's not going to get. He's not going to get too high, Ocho, because guess what? Yeah, even kill.

[Ocho]

Yeah, you got to stay even kill. You know why? Because not only having to deal with the noise on the outside, that's one thing, but now you got. You got to deal with the noise on the inside. Especially with the owner coming out just last week saying, that wasn't my pick.

[Cam]

Yeah, that's not who I wanted. Thank you, Mr. Haslam. How you. Yeah, how you doing, Mr. Haslam?

[Ocho]

Make sure Andrew Berry gets all the credit. Like you said, brother Haslam, don't smile.

[Cam]

Don't.

[Ocho]

Don't even. Don't say anything. Start with an S. He said, don't even say sh.

[Cam]

The audacity. Don't you say it.

[Ocho]

The nerve, the gall. I'm a Pole.

[Cam]

Well, I'm a David.

[Ocho]

I'm gonna say it one more time, and this is for everybody in the chat. If. Even if you don't like Shador, even if you don't like him, how do you watch film, college film on Shador Sanders and every other quarterback that went before him and see what all of them have done and say, you know what? No, I'm a pass over him. That's not the guy I want. Right. New Orleans Saints, Pittsburgh Steelers. I don't know what other teams that were in need of a quarterback. How do you do it? I'm just asking from a person that played the game of football and understanding. I have an eye. I have an eye. I played the game for a very long time at a very high level. I'm not saying I'm a scout, but I know what it's supposed to look like in situations that. That are not advantageous for you. I just saw a young fella win at Jackson State, turn the Colorado program around that won one game, regardless of what his. His record was in his totality, 23 and 12, whatever it may have been. I know what he can do. When you got the right pieces around him, I know what he can do. He's a winner regardless of what situation you put him in. And he showed it again tonight, yet again tonight with his back up against the wall.

[Cam]

Yeah, he just has the demeanor to be a quarterback. Nothing seems to impact him. He doesn't get too high. He doesn't get too low. He has the utmost confidence in himself. And most quarter, most. The good ones really do, no matter how bad. And we've seen it, no matter how bad it might be going. The really good ones, you know, if it's late in the ball game, they got a chance to beat you.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

And Shador is in the situation where it's like, doesn't make any excuses, and he Always says the right thing. Listen, it's not as easy as you think to always say the right thing, because you're dealing with the human element of it. The human element of it. No matter how much you have, no matter how little you have, no matter how good you've been, no matter how bad you've been, you're dealing with the human element of it. And people have emotions, people have feelings. And so sometimes when people lash out and say things like, damn, man, you know, you. You. You take the amount of time, but he hears what's being written about him.

[Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Cam]

He's. He hears, he sees. If he doesn't, he's getting word, it's getting back to him. But I just love the way the man, he kept his head down, closed off his ears, and just did what he was supposed to do. He went to work.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yeah.

[Cam]

And that's how you. That's how you have to approach it. Don't get mad. I ain't trying to prove y' all wrong. I'm trying to prove me right. And in the process of proving me right, I'll prove you wrong. It was. It was a great job. It was his first outing. Like I said, those throws. It was the throw. It wasn't. So it was. It was the throws that he made. Ocho, go back and take a look at that over ball. And we see Brock Purdy throw three or four of those a game to iuk. He used to hit Debo on those plays. Your kiddo on the over. Look at how he threw that ball, the timing of it.

[Ocho]

Do you. Do you understand the anticipatory skills you have to have as a quarterback with pressure coming at you? There was one. There was one. There was one overthrow he couldn't even see.

[Cam]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Because on the replay, we couldn't even see him. We just saw the ball come out. So he's anticipating where the receiver was going to be, and he just made the throw and put it only where the receiver could catch it.

[Cam]

Yep. That first touchdown.

[Ocho]

You understand, when people saw tonight, I don't think they understand how difficult the game is. I don't think they understand how difficult the game is, but he made it look like he's been doing it for a very long time. It's his first time. It's his first time in an NFL game, but he's used to it. Unk. Chat. Look at his mannerisms. Look how he walked on the first down. Okay. He almost did the wild celebration. He said, you know what?

[Cam]

I'm.

[Ocho]

Look at the time. But it ain't time yet. And just. Just everything about him and being quarterback number one, just the way he carried himself, he was ready for the moment. No matter what they. No matter what they did, no matter what they said, just put me in a situation, just hand me the cards, give me the hand, and I'm going to play it. And he did that just. Just exactly how we should tonight. The hand he was dealt. He played the hand very well. And it's only going to get better from here. It doesn't go backwards.

[Cam]

You don't.

[Ocho]

You don't digress. I'm excited, and this is coming from a Bengal fan at home. I'm excited for the Browns to finally maybe have the answer at the quarterback position after trying 35 times over the years. You know, I. Man, listen, man, I can go on and on about this, but go ahead.

[Cam]

You got it. I think the thing is, the biggest thing that an athlete can have is the ability to believe that he belongs. He or she belongs. I was a seventh round draft pick. Shadow was a five. There was 12 rounds when I was a seventh. There are seven rounds. He's a fifth.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

But there is not one point in time that I didn't feel I belonged on that field because I saw a lot of these guys at the bowl games. I saw these guys at combine and I read about them.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

And I remember calling my brother at the East West Shrine grass, said he do. Not better than me. They not better than me. I don't care what they say. Yeah. I remember going to the combat. That man, I, you know, he's like, what, you think you're ready? I say, probably 4, 6, 4, 7. I say, but they're not better than me. They might be faster than me, but they not better than me. I belong in the NFL. And when I went to Denver, all them guys that went before me, I'm like, ain't no way. I remember asking myself, how in the hell did you get drafted before me? Yeah. I said, but don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I said, it won't be long. It won't be. It was like the cat. When a girl say, boy, the cat got his tail caught in the washing machine. You know what he said, Ocho? He said, it won't be long now. He said, she didn't know what he was talking about. His tail wouldn't be long anymore or it wouldn't be long before it all be over. Yes, sir. Yeah, man. And when we put the pants on Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

First I'LL never forget because, you know, the rookies, we went to camp before the vet, so we would go like a couple of days before the vet. So we would already be practicing right. In Denver before we headed up to Greeley.

[Ocho]

Right?

[Cam]

I saw him. They was nervous, Ocho, like a long tail dog with a porch full of rocking chairs. You know, somebody lean back and go be able to take. You know what I'm talking about.

[Ocho]

Now.

[Cam]

I thought they were nervous. I say, oh, yeah, that's all I need to see. Just a little fear. Just a little fear in a man's eyes. Because that's my greatest ability. Yes, another man's fear.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I like it. I like it. And listen, I know we've been talking about Shador, but listen, remember I told. Remember I remember what I told you about the Panthers, right? Yes. Remember what I told you about the Panthers. If there's a dark. A chat. Stay with me real quick. If there's a dark horse team that I believe in this year that is going to creep up and maybe make it run into the playoffs, I said it would be the Panthers. They didn't look bad. Bryce Young didn't look bad. Jaylen Cobra went crazy tonight. Tmac, the rookie from Arizona looked good tonight. I know Xavier Leggett got thrown out, getting into a little tussle. Listen, I love the passion. It's just preseason. That's fixable. That's fixable. But again, look how the Panthers look early in the game for those. I know everybody tuned in to watch your door, but I'm telling you right now, and I said it first, someone that's not much of a Panther fan didn't play for the organization. They owe me nothing. I'm telling you, the dark horse team for this season, the Carolina Panthers. Bryce Young in that receiving corner. I'm telling you, watch, Ocho.

[Cam]

I ain't never been that hot in a preseason game. No, the tussle.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah, they were going at it, huh?

[Cam]

I. I don't really got no tussling practice, bro. Cause all I'm telling you what Dan Reeves gonna say, you fighting. That means we ain't working hard enough. Mike Shanahan say the same thing, right? We ain't working hard enough, bro. It ain't like it is now, bro. Them two hour, two and a half hour practice, man, please. With pads and you had on pads and. Oh, let me take that back. Ojo. You have on. They call it. See what they call shells with shoulder pads and shorts, right? It's not shells like they Call it now. Basically got those little. Little fitted styrofoam stuff on. That was not shells. When. When I got in the 90s, shells were shoulder pads and shorts.

[Ocho]

Shorts. Yeah.

[Cam]

And. And you know, we hit. They. They were. We hit back then. 907 was live.

[Ocho]

Yep.

[Cam]

Team. Team was a solid thud up. It was no touch. The guy on his like a two hand. Oh, no, you. You put shoulders on him, you put pads on him.

[Ocho]

Yeah, you bet. You better come to. You better come to balance and be ready.

[Cam]

I remember Dennis Smith. We call him Kahuna in Atwater. Man, they come down in that box. Well, we had thumpers back then. Oh, yeah, man, please.

[Ocho]

Hey, A.T. water ain't playboy.

[Cam]

No, A.T. water.

[Ocho]

Coming downhill now.

[Cam]

And Atwater wasn't the thumper like Dennis Smith. Kahuna was The Thumper. Number 49.

[Ocho]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. More than Atwater.

[Cam]

Yes, let's. Yes, Lord Ocho, I saw that joke. Hey, at 205, 210. Yeah, I saw him sit Lyman. Sit Lyman on the ass they pulling. He ain't never go low, right. Putting that shoulder in their chest and sit them down at 210. At 210. Go back if y' all can find it. Go back and check the tape. He hit Roosevelt Potts.

[Ocho]

Uh huh.

[Cam]

They both ran. He Potts come through the hole.

[Ocho]

He hit him. He was out cold.

[Cam]

Marion Butts. Hey, if you a Charger fan, you know who, because back then, Ocho, they had a big old big running back. They had big Marion Butts. They had Rod Bernstein. They had a big. They had Joe Caravello, big Joe Cox. I mean, they are. The tight ends were like 300 pounds. Offensive line, mammoth offensive line. Yeah, Kahuna run through them. Go back and look at that play with Dennis Smith hit. He hit Marion Buss and he hit Roosevelt Potts.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Hey, you know, you. You know who else was the thumper too? Remember Donovan Darius?

[Cam]

Yeah, yeah, I played against DD at. At Jacksonville. But that was back in the 90s. You had Chuck Cecil, you had Mark Carrier from Chicago. Boy, back then, it wasn't nothing defenseless about that. They say you got helmet and shoulder pads. What the hell you thought was gonna happen? You come across the middle.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah. You gonna get that work?

[Cam]

What?

[Ocho]

You gonna get that work?

[Cam]

Rodney Harrison.

[Ocho]

Oh, Rod coming with all forearm every time.

[Cam]

Hey, I say, bro. Hey, say sharp. Just stay on my knees. I say, gotcha. But boy, we tried. Boy, we definitely tried to hit each other in the mouth. Oh, yeah.

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[Cam]

Oh yeah. Hey, that's a hard playing joker. Ocho the biggest story I know is football, but the biggest story that we've had in a very, very Long time. Portland Trail Blazers head coach Chauncey Billups and Miami Heat guard Terry Rogier were arrested by the FBI in separate gambling pros this morning. Billup's arrest is related to an illegal poker games tied to the Mafia, according to ABC News.

[Ocho]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Tied to the who?

[Cam]

The Mafia. If red collect the Bonanno, the Genovese, the Columbia, the Columbia Colombo and the Lucasis.

[Ocho]

Ooh.

[Cam]

But anyway. Assistant coach Thiago Splitter will take over for Billups as Portland new interim coach. Rozier is accused of of being part of a gambling ring that used inside information to make illegal wagers. According to abc, Rozier and Billups are just two of the names arrested in a wide ranging probe called Operation Royal Flush. They need to stop. That started four years ago. Two indictments have 34 defendants listed. The indictment alleges that Rozier told associates he was going to take himself out of games during the first quarter on March 23rd of 2023 against the Pelicans so others could bet the under prop bets. This information was sold to others so they could also profit. There was a 259,000 that was wagered on Rozier by a group of people with inside information. According to the indictment, Rozier played under 10 minutes in the game. Billups took part in a rigged poker game in Manhattan according to the FBI. How did do you do, how do you rig a poker game? Well, Ocho according they had X ray machines built in the tables. So when you lay the cards face down, I can see what your whole cards are. So now, now I can play contact lenses through glass that read mark cards. So you know, oh, that's a ace. That's this, that's okay. Secret cameras and card trades. Billups is also alleged to have provided insider information on the trailblazer's injury while team was tanking at the end of 2023 season. Former NBA player Damon Jones was also arrested. Jones sold information on the Lakers game so other could bet on it. According to the indictment, Jones is a close friend of LeBron James who did not play in the game in question. The Lakers were named in the investigation during the press conference. Each defended in the NBA gambling case has been charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and conspiracy to commit money laundering.

[Ocho]

Hey man, listen man. Boy, this is big. This is huge.

[Cam]

This is ginormous.

[Ocho]

Listen, this is like an episode of Law and Order. You hear me one okay, I understand the gambling part but what grabs me, what grabbed my attention is the fact that the mafia is still prevalent in today's society now.

[Cam]

What do you think they win?

[Ocho]

Wait, hold on.

[Cam]

It's New York.

[Ocho]

Oh, listen. I know they never went nowhere, right? But they're never visible their presence. As opposed to the 70s, 80s.

[Cam]

That's what the real mob does. They not flashy.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cam]

But they have. They have reputable businesses. They have trucking and they have cement companies and they have delivery services. So they have legitimate businesses to hide behind the other things, see? And people ask why do you. This is why the NFL and the NBA puts out all injury reports, okay? So therefore, because if they didn't put it out and guess what? People know I can get parts that information. And it would have looked like that. What happened in the Damon Jones situation? He gave them the information before it came out. So they bet before Everybody else knew. LeBron James is a scratch. They had already got the money. So now the line is gonna come down. But they already got in on the other. It's just. Ocho, let me tell you a story.

[Ocho]

Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Let me get comfortable now. Cause your stories be good.

[Cam]

This.

[Ocho]

Okay, go ahead.

[Cam]

This is why I stopped going to going. We used to have the same thing. We had play craps go every Monday night. We would go. At first it was just guys on the team. Former player. That was that. Everybody knew. I knew him a long time.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Cam]

And so we would go over there, we would roll dice. Everybody mug's friend, you know, we lent somebody money. The thing was, I wouldn't lend you money. So you can bet against me what I look like giving you $1,000. And then you gonna fade me.

[Ocho]

Right, right, right, right.

[Cam]

You gonna fade me with my own money? No, that's not gonna happen. But anyway, okay. They started letting other people come in.

[Ocho]

Oh, stranger.

[Cam]

Other people come came in. Cause we didn't care. Hey, break. At first, if we used to have like 10 packs of. 10 packs of dice. And sometimes, hey, you get hot on the dice. You keep the dice for like five, 10 minutes and you put the dice in your pocket. So, hey, man, these my special dice. I don't want nobody else to touch these.

[Ocho]

Right, right, right.

[Cam]

Well, lo and behold, we. They let other people. They start letting other people coming out like. But who is you, man? I know such and such.

[Ocho]

Oh, Lord.

[Cam]

Move out for this. Hold on.

[Ocho]

Don't tell me they came in there with some damn trick dice, huh?

[Cam]

Man, they came in there with them crooks which are loaded dice. And the thing was, Ocho, the hardest. The hardest points on the dice. To hit is 10 and 4. Because there's only two ways you can make it.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Cam]

You can make it five, five. Or you can make it six. Four. Yeah, the same thing with four. You get three. One. You get two. Two. You get flowers. Or you get Little Joe Kokomo. So that's it, man. That joker throw them dice. It rolled 10. So you know, hey. So you know, hey, everybody go jump on that 10. You ain't gonna hit that 10, right? I'm gonna tell you something. I don't know, Chad, if y' all ever gamble before, but if you want to break up a dice game, hit 10 or four. I don't saw cars don't exchange hands. I just saw a lot of ish happen with that 10 or 4.

[Ocho]

Come on, now.

[Cam]

But anyway, he came out, he hit 10. So, you know, everybody jump on it. Hey, you know, jump on it with both feet, too. You ain't fitting to hit that, right? So he took a cool two. 200. 200 off me, you know?

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cam]

Damn. I said, let me come back. Let me come back. He rolled a 4.

[Ocho]

Back to back.

[Cam]

He rolled a 10. He kicked the 10. The thing was, Ocho, the end, was hitting it out the door. So I say, what the. So I only go over there with, like, 2,000, 2,500. Right, right, right, right. We broke the dice game up, hit for about 30.

[Ocho]

What, 30, what?

[Cam]

30. 30, baby. You gotta realize it's like 15, 20 of us in there. We all NFL players. So we all got bread. Or guys would go to the ATM and get money and come back.

[Ocho]

Oh, hey, hey. Y' all should know something was up, man.

[Cam]

Ocho didn't know. So I told my homeboy Burns he had gone out of town because at the time, Michelle was in Virginia. So bye week, you know, not a bye week. But he would go home. So he would leave that Monday, go home, stay Monday night, come back Tuesday. Because a lot of times we didn't have. Pray we win. We didn't have. We didn't have no meeting. We didn't have anything. Just get back with.

[Ocho]

Right, right, right.

[Cam]

As a matter of fact, he was catching the red eye. Get home early Monday morning. But anyway, I told him. I said, man, Burns, you ain't gonna believe this. I say, dude broke the game up. He say what? He said what he was hitting. I say, dude, we had a dude named Reggie, Reggie Hayward. He broke the game up. He had the dice for like an hour. I ain't never seen nobody get that hot, but it was legit he had the dice for an hour. Every point on the dice he hit, he was seven out the door. You hit a luch a that four, five. Hey, he was talking about born in 54, died in 63. What's my point? Nine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what? Jesse James carry 45. Hey, hey. He rolled four. Emmy Smith wild out the door. Stayed on the dice for an hour. I see burns, old boy. 10 or 4 had the dice just like that.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yeah.

[Cam]

The next week, the guy house that he was at was at. He was rolling dice, had two grand out there.

[Ocho]

Had it.

[Cam]

Everybody had it. He crapped out. He picked the dice up and threw them. They split open.

[Ocho]

Uh.

[Cam]

Oh. Now you could see where the weight was. So I. I go, I don't hear about this till the next. So this little Monday.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Yeah.

[Cam]

They start calling me, man Sharp. You ain't gonna believe this. I say, what, man? Man, boy had crooks. I said, yeah. He had to weigh the dice. Like, yeah, man, what you think we should do? I said, I don't know what y' all gonna do. I ain't gonna do nothing. Cause I'm gonna go to jail. So I said, look, I'm done from that point on. I said, I'm done. I told birds. I said, birds, if you want to go. He like, you ain't going. I ain't going, Right? But anyway, and I started. I. Look, boy, look here. I started to get the dude that vouched for him. I knew him, but he. We've been cool. You vouch for him. You vouch for him. You got to cover. But anyway, dude, I bought a brand new. Brought a brand new maximum, kitted it out, a new gear. That's what stopped me from doing. That's what stopped me from doing the house game.

[Ocho]

Right?

[Cam]

I got. First of all, it's got to be like, us.

[Ocho]

It got to be us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cam]

No, no, I ain't talking about no. Horrible. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

I'm sorry.

[Cam]

Ocho. Your homeboy. Your homeboy can't play, right? Everybody. Me, you, xyz. We NFL player. Boo. I believe we're gonna be on the up and up. But somebody come to the game, they know it. They know it's in it. Money gonna be there. Yeah, we'll come in and cheat.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

Car game, the same thing. That's what happened with the online poker. Yeah. Guys. So had had the online poker. He had. He had the. You know, it's a. What they call it. But anyway, he's.

[IBM Representative]

He.

[Cam]

He they could see your cards, right?

[Ocho]

So he crazy technology so advanced. Listen, the part that scared me up, I understand Chauncey in trouble. I understand Damon Jones in trouble. I understand Terry Rogier for one. I'm not risking it. I'm not risking the position that I'm in. I'm in.

[Cam]

But you don't believe you risking it, huh? Think about it. A lot of this stuff happened in 23. It's 25. Ocho. You Ocho. What criminal, you know make a score and said, I'm done, I quit?

[Ocho]

Well, you can't. But you understand when the FBI get a hold of you now, the FBI, they watch you for.

[Cam]

They don't let it run. They gotta wait till they get you. Oh, I can't get you with one charge. Cause you might. You a first timer. You gonna get off. I got to get you deep. I gotta make sure the hook is set.

[Ocho]

Yeah, you gotta build up it. Gotta build up this. This is scary.

[Cam]

You know how to fish, right? You gotta set the hook. Because if you don't set it right, a big one gonna get away.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But this the part that scared me though, right? Like understanding. Understanding. Okay, understand the gambling part. It's the part about being part of the Mafia, being entangled into it, man. Listen, that's a no no for me right there off back. I done seen the Sopranos. Yeah.

[Cam]

Yes.

[Ocho]

I done seen Goodfellas. I know it's a depiction of a fictional story maybe, but that's real life.

[Cam]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

I'm thinking about extortment. I'm thinking about once you tied into them, man. That's you.

[Cam]

Now you got a point. Shave now. You got to feed them information. What I hate most. Look, and I know, listen. I know Chauncey Billup since he was in high school. He went to G Dub in Denver, Colorado, which was about a mile from where I was staying. I used to stay in the Breakers. Anybody from Denver know exactly where the breakers are on Mississippi and where. And. And where G Dub is? There's a car wash. Used to be a Sterling Car Wash right across the street. Chauncey Billings went to G Dub. He was sensational. Sensational. Three time Mr. Basketball all state all year. So we get that. And so I feel bad for Chauncey and I hope. I hope this is what they suggest. But my thing is. And I hope this is just. But Damon Jones do Everybody knows what LeBron goes through to try to make sure he has no stain? Because what did they put in the paper? They put LeBron James this man is doing everything he possibly could to keep his nose clean to make sure he doesn't have the people. Look, Maverick, he grew up with Rich, he met at a very young age. Randy, he grew up with. So he insulated himself. LeBron don't have a whole lot of close friends. You see him, you're gonna always see Randy. Randy's his sheep of staff. Rich is his agent, obviously. Maverick handles all the other business inquiries. You put this man on the spot because it's a legend that you sold information that LeBron is not going to play before it became public knowledge. And they say they have a text message or something between the two. I just. I just hate. I just. I just hate.

[Ocho]

And obviously, the funny thing about that, LeBron doesn't know. I mean, them exchanging message, him letting them know, that's like me texting you, unk, hey, unk, we finna play the Raiders. But I'm not playing like that's. That's no harm, no foul on LeBron part because he had no idea what's going on.

[Cam]

Exactly.

[Ocho]

Yeah. So. But. But the one thing. And what I was talking about, about them being dealing. Dealing with the Mafia, understanding these people. These people have no regard for life.

[Cam]

No.

[Ocho]

Once you in business with them, that means you got the.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Always.

[Cam]

Once they got them hooks in you.

[Ocho]

I need all the answers. I need who's playing, who's coming out, what's the score line gonna be? And what happened when you get it wrong? What happened when you mess up? What happened when you place a bet or you give them certain information and it doesn't come out the way it should and they lose money?

[Cam]

Well, all of a sudden you say he's not gonna play. Then all of a sudden he plays, he'll game time, and he end up playing.

[Ocho]

Hold on, what about this? Once you in. Once you end with them like that, what about. You know what? I don't want to do this no more. I don't want. I don't want to.

[Cam]

I don't know why. I don't want to do it no more. And it's reported that, like, he got $2,500. So. On a $50,000 bet, I think it was a $50,000 bet. Wasn't it a $50,000 bet? How much was. Was over a hundred thousand. They gave you 2,500. Now what? What?

[Ocho]

Hold on.

[Cam]

They ain't even give you 10%. They gave you 2%. What the hell I'm gonna do with that? Two. Two. Hey, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

If it's 2 billion. I'll take 10. I'll take 2%, but not no damn 100,000.

[Ocho]

Nah. Absolutely not.

[Cam]

I just.

[Ocho]

Absolutely not. Hey, hey, listen, I understand the gambling part, right? And the gambling part, to me, because I've been in that lifestyle. I don't gamble. Y' all know my cheap ass. No, gamble. I'm saying, I've just been in that world for so long and stuff, seen so many people gamble.

[Cam]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Past 30 years. The part that is. That has me stunned and is amazed is, boy, you dealing with the.

[Cam]

The.

[Ocho]

The. The Mafia. Like, I. I think. I think people just like letting it go. And they.

[Cam]

Hell, no. They reading Damon Jones.

[Ocho]

Chauncey. Chauncey. And goddamn Terry Roa is the only ones that's on the goddamn news. Well, where's everybody else? What the other 30?

[Cam]

I gotta get the big name. Ocho, let me ask you a question. When the last time you see somebody post a fish that was this big? They post the trophy fish?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

They are the trophies.

[Ocho]

Yeah. So now you. You lose. You lose your job, you lose your career, but, you know, they still gonna be making their money, huh?

[Cam]

Oh, yeah. They ain't gonna.

[Ocho]

But, you know, you know, it's not gonna stop.

[Cam]

No, absolutely not, bro. Look here. And I. I used to gamble. I did. I mean, I used to come to Vegas and gamble. I gamble on the plane. We play. You know, we used to play tonk, and we used to play in between. Yeah. Pots get up to 5, 10, 20,000.

[Ocho]

$30,000American money.

[Cam]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Boy, y', all, man, y' all tripping, man.

[Cam]

Man, I. Look, I. I took a call for a guy. I felt bad for him because I know if he had to go home, he gonna get a divorce. He had. He had a resto. A Chevelle. 454, right? Black, beautiful.

[Ocho]

You took the pink slip.

[Cam]

I said, man, give me. Give me three grand. Call it a day.

[Ocho]

Y' all were betting card. Pink slips.

[Cam]

Hey, he got up, he got in the hole, and that's what happens, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Oh, he was in the hole.

[Cam]

There was a story I hear about a dude named. I think his name was Jeffrey Watanabe. Lost $204 million, lost his family fortune. Read it. Go read about it. Oh, 200. Go read about it.

[Ocho]

Hey, Chat.

[Cam]

No, his name was Terry. I think his name was Terrence Watanabe.

[Ocho]

Hey, Chad, somebody send that to my Instagrams on my Twitter, please. I got to read that. How do you lose? Did you see the movie the Gambler?

[Cam]

Yes, yes.

[Ocho]

Like, I didn't know people had issues like that where they're addicted to gambling.

[Cam]

Gambling?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Cam]

Alcohol, drugs. Yes, it's an addiction. It's endorphins. It's a high. It's a rush.

[Ocho]

How do you. You lose 250,000, you go to the Shark and ask for more money?

[Cam]

Two. Oh, hold on. Read that. A lot. Say what it was, Ash. 240.

[Ocho]

240 million?

[Cam]

Yes.

[Ocho]

@ what point do you say stop? At what point do you say no, I lose $20, I'm gonna lose my.

[Cam]

Mind? Yeah, he was up. But see, here's the thing.

[Ocho]

Ocho. Same.

[Cam]

Thing. There was a guy named Arnie at the Binions. He was up. He was up 50 million, lost it all back. He had every $5,000 chip that was in the hotel. The hotel used to have the casino. Used to have to come to his room and get the chips because he had them all. He lost it.

[Ocho]

All. You know, I don't understand. I just. I can't grasp the concept. I understand gambling. Listen, I really can't talk now because I just started. I just started playing a little blackjack myself. Every time I go to Vegas. I don't go to Vegas often, but I go to the blackjack table. You know how much I spend? I take 200, 200 out. ATM, I pay the 25 hands. Yeah, when that, when that 200 gone, man, I'm hurting. I'm. And it's only 200. And now you saying these extraordinary numbers. How the hell you lose 240.

[Cam]

Million? Because when you get down, you try to get it back. Because let me tell you how it happens, okay? I lose 50. Hey, I lose 50, I'm gonna bet 100 to try to get it back. Now I'm down 150. So guess what I got to do, Ocho? I'm gonna bet 200 because I'm gonna get all three. I'm gonna get the two hands that I lost and I'm gonna be plus 50. And before you know it, now you betting 2550. A hundred thousand a hand. So how long will it take you? Because if you go on a rush, you go on a run, you could bet. Hey, go back and look. I think it was the mgm. Carrie Pat with it. What was his daddy name? Packard. He was an Australian billionaire. Go read about what he, what he did to the MGM and how he wrecked their quarterly.

[Ocho]

Reports. He wrecked.

[Cam]

It?

[Ocho]

Yes. Well, he won. He went on a.

[Cam]

Run. He.

[Ocho]

Won. Yes, big time. But in.

[Cam]

Order. That was serving him. She was bringing him, you know, his, you know, smoothies or water, Whatever it was, right? Go get your mortgage. I'm gonna pay it off for.

[Ocho]

You. Oh, he was talking.

[Cam]

Spicy. He did it. Carrie Packard. Is this is. Yeah. Yes.

[Ocho]

Dmgm. Read about.

[Cam]

It. I know all the.

[Ocho]

Stories. Hey, listen, Gambling. Gambling is an addiction.

[Cam]

Huh? Absolutely, it.

[Ocho]

Is. And listen, a lot of people say. Oh, stop acting naive. See, there's certain things that I don't know about. There's certain things that I don't know about because it was never. It never sparked my interest. That's not something that I. It ain't like soccer. I could take my. I could talk about boxing. I talk about tennis. But.

[Cam]

Gambling? Hell, man, what you call.

[Ocho]

Them? I just started playing blackjack this year. Oh.

[Cam]

Yeah. Oh, he. He was a whale. Those are what they call whales. What was the guy used to be a Penthouse. What was the guy on Penthouse? He was in the.

[Ocho]

Wheelchair. Oh, damn, I forgot his name. I met him one time. He own.

[Cam]

Hustler. Yes, yes.

[Ocho]

Yes. Damn, I forgot his name. I met him. I met him in.

[Cam]

La. He passed away. He was a whale. Larry.

[Ocho]

Flint. Yeah, Mr. Mr. Flint. That's right.

[Cam]

Yeah. But, Ocho, the thing is, is that. Look, I. I played a couple of hands, and, you know, hey, you know, I.

[Ocho]

Paid. Hey, hey, hey. How much you. How much you were betting on? I don't mean to be in.

[Cam]

Your business, but for better, I'll tell you a story, Ocho. We was at the. The Rio. We was at the Riot, okay? And it was me, 7, 30, 53, and Crockpot, it was.

[Ocho]

Us.

[Cam]

Yeah. So we playing. So I had, like, 25,000 on me. John. John was playing. John was. So I had. You know, I won. And he was playing. So he get a card. He split. So he got. So he. He split them. Then it was another of the same cars he split that we had about. He had about six cards that were split, and then he ended up doubling down. We had like 40,000 on the table. And the dealer bus, he took all mine. Cause if the dealer would have hit all my little 25,000 was gone. He was like, give me your money. I'm like, whoa, whoa, hold on. You might give you my money. What kind of bull job is this? But we won. But it's a Ocho. Ain't nothing like it. It's nothing like sitting there. You played 5,000 or $10,000 a hand, and then you get blackjacked. What gets scary, Ocho? What gets scary, Ocho, is that when you get a double down hand and you got 5,000 or you got 10,000 on the.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Wood?

[Ocho]

Yeah. Now, when you got a double day, when you got a double down hand, you got 10,000 on the wood. What that mean? You double your.

[Cam]

Money. You double it. So you got to put 10,000. 10. 10 more with it. Nah, double it or you split it. You got to put 10. Guess what happens, Ocho? You get a double down hand. Yeah. You get a split. You get a split hand. So let you get. Say you get a pair of eights or a pair of nines against a seven or below. Yeah, you're gonna split them. Now you get a three, a two or three. Now you doubling that. So now that's 20,000. Now you get this head. You get a split, you get a double. Now you double that. 20, 20, 30, 40. That's 40,000 on the.

[Ocho]

Wood. Yeah, it ain't.

[Cam]

Working. Hey, you hear.

[Ocho]

Me? It ain't worth it. Because I want. I'm thinking about the loss. I'm thinking about the.

[Cam]

Loss. But you can't think like that. So you can't go to the table because you can't look at the chips as money. You look at them as objects. The moment you look at them as money, get up from the.

[Ocho]

Table. Hey, for one. For one. Unless you make the kind of revenue and you have disposable income. Yeah. It shouldn't be gambling. No way. Yeah, unless you have disposable income. I don't care NFL players, I don't care how much. I don't care if you got a 50, $80 million contract. Your ass shouldn't be at no goddamn crap table or playing blackjack or no, no, rotisserie or none of.

[Cam]

That.

[Ocho]

Yeah. What's the one going to circle again? What it's.

[Cam]

Called? That's.

[Ocho]

Roulette. I'm talking about.

[Cam]

Rotisserie. That's a. That's a league. That's a. A gambling league. But anyway, I know what you meant. And plus, the new thing now is baccarat. Read the Phil Ivey.

[Ocho]

Story. Phil Ivey, famous. I know that.

[Cam]

Name. I know he. He a poker.

[Ocho]

Player. I know his.

[Cam]

Name. But they went, they went. They went overseas. Him and a Chinese.

[Ocho]

Lady. Yes.

[Cam]

Sir. Read about that.

[Ocho]

Story. It's good or.

[Cam]

Bad? It's bad. Well, he won, but they fought because the lady could count cards. Oh, you can see the imperfections. But Ocho, that gambling man, is a ocho. Why you think people be watching these games? You think they really be liking these teams? Some people do. I got fantasy and I got real Money. You messing up my parlay. That's why they call you the N word. That's why they. Because you suck. That's why they say you worse than Hitler. Bro, you lost me my money. What.

[Ocho]

The. Hey, if you can't stand to lose your money, you don't bet. You don't. You don't.

[Cam]

Bet. Well, you suck, Man. I'm telling you, Ocho. Hell.

[Ocho]

No. Hey, but. Hey, that's. Hey, that's. That's fascinating. It's fascinating hearing the stories now. Yeah, it's fascinating, but I can't put myself in position to put my money where I have no control over whether I win or.

[Cam]

Lose. I'm.

[Ocho]

Not. I don't. I don't want it. The house don't let you in. I done heard enough horror stories to stay away from.

[Cam]

It. You got to be able to see the thing, the reason why the house wins so much. They can weather the storm. Because guess what, Ocho? If you start winning too much, they'll ask you to leave. Okay, that's enough. That's enough, Mr. Johnson. Now what? What? No, you think. We think you've had. You've done enough for tonight. The question is, when you win, can you get up on your own? Right? Because they don't usher you to. When you losing, they don't ask you to leave. Can you ask yourself to leave when you lose? When you start. Can you leave when you start to.

[Ocho]

Lose? Man, listen.

[Cam]

This. Ocho. This is what happened. Excuse me. This is what happens. In. In the gaming.

[Ocho]

Space. Yes. Yeah. I mean, hey, can you imagine? How do you even. I'm still stuck on the mafia part because I understand how that can end. You put. Yeah. You're not just putting your life in.

[Cam]

Jeopardy. Everybody get close to you. They play for keys.

[Ocho]

Now. Hey, man, I ain't got. Man, who. What. You know, there's a certain. Excuse me. We speaking of gambling now. Excuse my lack of knowledge. I might be wrong. The greatest player. The greatest basketball player of all.

[Cam]

Time.

[Ocho]

Yes. If I'm not.

[Cam]

Mistaken, second graders. But okay. Yeah. He a big gambler? Yes. Yes. He liked to play like. Yes.

[Ocho]

Yes. Now if. Now you see where I'm going. I'm trying not to say it without saying it because you lost someone very close to.

[Cam]

Him. But everybody know. But. But the thing is, there are a lot of people that lost because they sit next to him and feel they got to gamble as much as him. He the logo. He ain't got to play no more basketball, and he's still gonna get. He Gonna get, you know, 300, 400 million and he ain't dropped when last time Michael Jordan dribbled a.

[Ocho]

Basketball. But see, you're not understand what I'm saying. Didn't he lose somebody closest to.

[Cam]

Him? Yes, based.

[Ocho]

On. Okay, so you, you get where I'm going with.

[Cam]

It? Yes. Okay, see that's what, that's what the reports believe that had, it had something to do with.

[Ocho]

That. Exactly, which is why I don't understand how Chauncey and Damon and Terry would even you part of who Gambino who. No, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good with none of that information because in the minute it don't go right and you can't get to me, you're going to the next closest thing to me. I don't, I don't want.

[Cam]

That. So that's, you know, and, and, and reportedly the NBA investigated Terry Rozier and clearly that's the problem that you got. Yeah, they investigated him last year, Ocho. We briefly touched on this and they cleared it. Now you see why the NFL, See that's, see, that's why you can't do it, Ocho, because guess what? These gaming companies, they want to be able to bet with the NFL and mlb. So they're going to turn you.

[Ocho]

In. Oh yeah.

[Cam]

Absolutely. They're going to turn you in because hold on, wait a minute. He's just a guy. And why are we getting all these problems back coming in on him and he just. Oh no, they'll pull it off the board, man.

[Ocho]

Please. God.

[Cam]

Damn. I, I, I. Look, in situations like this, Ultra, you got to just take your medicine and, and, and, and, and, and I, I just, I hope it's not true. Look, I don't really know, I don't really know anybody but Johnson, the.

[Ocho]

FBI does not come and get you until they have enough evidence to convict.

[Cam]

You. I'm gonna say, well, I can hope on your damn, you know, hope.

[Ocho]

The people in, the people in hell hope they can get some goddamn ice water. Is it coming? Absolutely.

[Cam]

Not. I, I'm.

[Ocho]

Hoping. Well, you know what I'm gonna hope with.

[Cam]

You. I, I just, I, I just, you know, Ocho, I'm just saying in a situation like this, you don't think, you, you don't think. Ocho, you know how we're wired. We think we're invincible. Because think about ocho, this was 20, 23 when this was going on. It's 25. Oh, you never forgot about.

[Ocho]

That. Oh no, they don't forget about nothing.

[Cam]

Now. Yeah. You know, Ocho, you remember your grandma, your mama said, well, my grandma said, boy, I'm gonna tear your tail up when you get home. About two, three hours go by. Oh, she done forgot about.

[Ocho]

That.

[Cam]

Yeah. The next day, you know, she's shutting down on you. So bad. I just. Boy, this is. This is. Boy, they about to get. They about to get real, real.

[Ocho]

Real. What?

[Cam]

Straight. But that. But that. No, but that's. That's the problem. That's why you see these fans, when, when their team, man, what the first thing they say, man, you messed up my.

[Ocho]

Parlay.

[Cam]

Parlay. You messed up my.

[Ocho]

Fantasy. Yeah.

[Cam]

My. Yeah, yeah, man, I'm not thinking about your fantasy. I think about I lost us the.

[Ocho]

Game. Yeah, they worry about your fantasy. They worry about that.

[Cam]

Money.

[LG Gram Advertiser]

Yeah. Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop? Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice. Used with permission. All rights.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Reserved. Season 2 of unrivaled basketball is here, and the talent is unreal. The best women's players on the planet are running it back with even bigger moments and bigger stakes. Don't miss as Paige Beckers, Nafiza Collier, Kelsey Plumb, Brianna Stewart and more take the court and redefine the game. This isn't your regular season. This is unrivaled, where the pace is faster, the energy is higher, and every athlete shines. Unrivaled basketball season two, sponsored by Samsung on Galaxy, tips off January 5th on TNT, TruTV and.

[Sophie Cunningham]

HBO. Max, this is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company at.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

CVS. It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night, and we want everyone to feel welcomed and.

[Vizio Advertiser]

Rewarded. It matters that CVS is here.

[Cam]

To fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and yeah, healthy snack. At CVS, we're proud to serve.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Your community because we believe where you get your medicine.

[Vizio Advertiser]

Matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our.

[Unrivaled Basketball Announcer]

Store. We can't wait to meet.

[Cam]

You. Store hours vary by.

[Lenovo Advertiser]

Location. If a Lenovo gaming computer is on your holiday list, don't shop around, just go directly to the source Lenovo.com it's your last chance to score exclusive deals on the gaming PCs you want, like the Lenovo Legion Tower 5 Gen 10 gaming desktop and Lenovo Lock Gaming Laptop. So avoid all that shopping chaos and price comparing and just go directly to the source Lenovo.com where PCs are up to 35% off. That's Lenovo.com Lenovo.