Best of NFL News Part 1: HEATED DEBATE: KD or Ant Man to lead their team in the playoffs?! Giannis' FAKE LOVE for Bucks is only for his Nike shoe contract!

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Best of NFL News Part 1: Heated Debates on NBA Playoff Leaders, Giannis' Bucks Drama & More

Podcast: Club Shay Shay
Episode: Best of NFL News Part 1
Release Date: April 11, 2026
Host: Shannon Sharpe and panel (Joe, Ocho, Brian Windhorst)

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Episode Overview

This special “Best of” episode dives deep into the hottest debates and storylines leading into the 2026 NBA Playoffs. Shannon Sharpe leads a spirited roundtable with Joe, Ocho, and Brian Windhorst, focusing on:

• Who's more valuable to lead a team in this playoff run: Kevin Durant or Anthony Edwards (aka "Ant Man")?
• The crumbling aura around the Milwaukee Bucks and behind-the-scenes factors influencing Giannis' playing time and future.
• NBA contract implications, team dynamics when stars get hurt, and a freewheeling look at franchise loyalty, trades, and basketball culture.

The discussion is sprinkled with laughs, authentic player insights, and unsparing takes on legacy, stardom, and business in today’s NBA.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. KD vs Ant Man: Who Would You Rather Lead Your Team?

(Main segment: 02:59–11:18)

• Brian Windhorst's Take: "I would take Ant man over KD for the playoffs. And it's not close. We're not talking historically, we're talking for the 2026 playoffs." (03:00)
  • Ant Man (Anthony Edwards) has won 4 series in 2 years, while KD has won just one since leaving Golden State (03:00).
• Ocho & Joe Counter: Both acknowledge Ant Man's fiery confidence and two-way impact, but note it's a close call—not the blowout some think.
  • Ocho on Ant Man: “The way Ant man competes, he let it be known. I'm out here to kick LeBron ass. I'm out here to kick KD ass. ... And he goes out there and backs it up.” (04:04)
• Examining KD’s Legacy
  • Joe: "There’s this perception ... that KD in the postseason hasn’t enjoyed a level of success outside of Golden State…but the facts line up.” (04:39)
  • Ocho: “He was the Finals MVP twice. ... He was not no damn passenger. ... Had he not gone to Golden State, they not winning no two more championships.” (07:18–10:54)
• On Aging Stars
  • Joe: “As a player gets older, even though he gives you the same numbers, they don’t impact the game like he once did.” (09:13)
  • Ocho notes KD's defense has slipped: “There was a time he was blocking shots ... now he’s got that cruise control on offense.” (09:30)
• Consensus: Ant Man’s defensive edge and rising star power put him over KD—for this year’s playoffs—but KD’s greatness and impact in the right system shouldn’t be underestimated.

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2. Bucks in Turmoil: Giannis’ “Love” & Shoe Contract Drama

(Main segment: 17:13–18:57 and 50:34–70:06)

• Bucks' On-Court Struggles
  • Joe: “Ain’t no more fear of the deer. People got the deer head on the wall, don’t nobody fear the deer no more.” (17:51)
  • Ocho: “The Bucks got so much turmoil ... they didn't need K [Cunningham] tonight.” (18:09)
• Giannis Playing Time Controversy
  • Joe reveals the behind-the-scenes: “The real money on the line is ... bonuses in his Nike endorsement contract that would have been triggered if he played at least 41 games. That adds a lot of context…” (50:34)
  • Ocho (on Pat Riley acquiring Giannis and his brothers): “Pat Riley ain’t going for that ... Your damn brothers, they gonna have to figure it out. They ain't doing that.” (51:35)
• Player Power and Franchise Control
  • Brian Windhorst: “If he didn’t budge for the King, he not budging for the Greek.” (52:11)
  • Discussion on how few organizations truly allow player power to dictate terms, and the unique push-pull in Milwaukee.
• Business Side & Loyalty
  • “No good deed going unpunished...You’re gonna have fringe players make all-NBA, then get max contracts.” (24:55)
  • Sharpe on player loyalty: “Nobody’s going to love you like your original [team]. ... This other team, they're just gonna be happy to have you ... Nothing’s going to be special about you, bro.” (55:43)
• The Likelihood of Giannis Leaving
  • Ocho: “They can't bring him back ... I can bet you behind the scenes they're gonna work to get him traded this summer for sure.” (58:58)

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3. Contract & Awards Quirks: All-NBA and Supermax Fallout

(Main Segment: 22:17–25:29)

• Injury Rule Changes & Max Money
  • Ocho & Joe discuss how injured stars missing games can bump bench/fringe talent into All-NBA, making them eligible for supermax contracts.
  • Ocho: “That’s all that counts ... Now when we go to the negotiating table, you know I got this in my back pocket.” (24:10)

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4. Rising Teams: Pistons, Hornets, and the New Threats

(Main Segment: 17:13–22:17)

• Pistons Outlook:
  • Cade Cunningham’s return has “game-changer” potential: “They hang their hat on defense, and they got a game changer in Cade.” (18:25, Ocho)
  • Key X-factor: “Come playoff time, how consistent can Duncan Robinson and Herder shoot the three?” (18:57)
• Hornets as Playoff Dark Horse:
  • “If Lamelo can continue to play at this mega star level ... They’re a scary team.” (20:59, Ocho)
  • Joe: “They’re young enough and naive enough not to know any better.” (21:50)

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5. Lakers Mid-Season Meltdown & Coaching Drama

(Main Segment: 30:44–40:22)

• JJ Redick Calls Out the Team
  • “JJ called out the entire team ... Vando walked over and let him hear it. Joe, are the cracks starting to show?” (30:44)
• Blame on Injuries
  • Ocho: “You got two of your best players out ... Now you puttin’ Vando and these guys in situations they’re not used to.” (31:18)
• Sharpe on Accountability
  • “If I throw you the ball and it goes out of bounds, well, then what I’m supposed to do?” (34:14)
  • “Sometimes you gotta lie to your players. Sometimes I got to tell ‘em they good when they’re not.” (36:00, Coach anecdote)
• On LA Lights:
  • Windhorst: “They ain’t been in that Lakers, under them type of lights and that type of pressure.” (38:22)
  • Ocho: “When your big guns not playing, everything gets magnified.” (39:42)

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6. Cooper Flagg Hype vs. Luka Dončić Reality

(Main Segment: 42:47–48:30)

• The Hype:
  • Max Kellerman: “I would rather have Cooper Flagg over Luka...He’s an actual defender at the NBA level, one of these 1-5 level players.”
• Panel’s Reaction:
  • Ocho: “Do y’all remember when Luka first came into the league? ... He’s a hell of a shooter, scorer, his IQ is high.” (43:29)
  • Joe: “What European player is known for defense? ... Guys that score a lot of points usually don’t play great defense.” (45:17)
• On Flagg’s Growth:
  • “What impressed me was that men's national team scrimmage. He had no problem.” (45:57)
• On Losing Culture:
  • Ocho: “That losing can break you, bro ... Imagine, only winning 8-9 games outta 82.” (46:59)
  • Joe: “You ain't supposed to have no life ... Let me take my ass home, we keep losing.” (47:37)

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7. Giannis, Trades, and Franchise-Building Philosophies

(Main Segment: 55:43–75:45)

• Love and Loyalty:
  • Sharpe: “Nobody’s going to love you like your original [team] ... This other team, they're just gonna be happy to have you.” (55:43)
• Trade Realities:
  • Joe: “[Bucks] refuse to let [Giannis] walk ... it’ll set them back, hell, five, seven, even probably longer than that.” (69:50)
  • On OKC’s Masterclass Moves: “Presti can pick a player ... What was purgatory for OKC, now they’re back in it.” (70:53)
• Free Agency & Taxes:
  • Ocho: “That Florida, that Miami don’t sound bad ... Texas gonna kick his ass though [on taxes].” (62:10)
  • Joe: “When it’s all said and done, you get $100M, you down to probably like $47M after taxes.” (61:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ocho on Ant Man: “He let it be known...I’m out here to kick LeBron ass. I’m out here to kick KD ass...and he goes out there and backs it up.” (04:04)
• Joe on KD in Golden State: “He was the Finals MVP twice ... Had he not gone to Golden State, they not winning no two more championships.” (07:18)
• Brian Windhorst on Franchise Love: “If he didn’t budge for the King, he not budging for the Greek.” (52:11)
• Sharpe on All-NBA & Contracts: “No good deed going unpunished ... You’re gonna have fringe players make all-NBA, then get max contracts.” (24:55)
• Ocho on Young Hornets: “They’re just young enough and naive enough not to know any better.” (21:50)
• Sharpe on OKC’s Resurgence: “Presti done a great job, but the linchpin was getting Shay....now the foundation is strong.” (71:12)
• Joe on LA Lights: “It’s different ... your big guns out, everybody else gets magnified.” (38:22)
• Ocho on Loyalty: “You might win a title, but they’re not gonna love you like they did.” (56:57)
• Joe on Losing a Superstar: “[OKC] didn’t get Gatorade, didn’t get socks, didn’t get tape...nothing for KD.” (69:29)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:59–11:18: KD vs. Ant Man—Who you got for this year’s playoff run?
• 17:13–22:17: Pistons, Bucks, and Hornets—Emerging threats and playoff matchups
• 22:17–25:29: All-NBA injury fallout and max contract implications
• 30:44–40:22: Lakers meltdown, JJ Redick’s public criticism, team accountability
• 42:47–48:30: Cooper Flagg vs. Luka—Hype, upside, and superstar culture
• 50:34–70:06: Giannis’ Bucks drama, shoe contract revelations, franchise loyalty, and the business of megastar trades
• 70:06–75:45: OKC’s franchise overhaul & lessons on rebuilding after a superstar leaves

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Episode Tone

The discussion is energetic, unscripted, and no-holds-barred—mixing former player wisdom, fan banter, and inside-the-league perspective. The cast walks the line between playful roasting and serious basketball analysis, channeling locker room camaraderie and raw candor.

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For NBA fans gearing up for the 2026 playoffs, this episode offers sharp debate, culture talk, and a look inside the real business stakes at the heart of superstar movement. If you missed it, you missed nothing but high-level basketball barbershop banter with real implications for the NBA landscape.

Transcript

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[Ocho]

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Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply. Hello, it's your favorite sports un here. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button to join the fastest growing community on YouTube. Remember, Nightcap doesn't happen without you, so please subscribe or you're going to make OO cry. Brian or Joe Leon and Ocho. Let me know what you think about this. Brian Windhorse said he would take Ant man over KD for the playoffs. And it's not close. We're not talking historically, we're talking for the 2026 playoffs. I think Ant Man, I don't even think it's a debate. Durant has won one playoff series since he left Golden State. Ant man has won four series in the last two years.

[Ocho]

Joe boy, that's a good. But you got a good argument and

[Joe]

it's closer than you think. And like he said, we're not talking about historically, we're talking about right now. He says Kevin Durant has won one playoff series.

[Ocho]

Yeah, one I like. And I, I'm. Hey, listen, man, I love both of those guys game. I think the way Ant man competes, you know, he let it be known. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm. I'm out here to kick LeBron ass. I'm out here to kick KD ass. I'm out here, I'm going at these boys. Y' all hear what he told Obama?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Talking about, y' all better. Y' all better watch out. Yeah, I'm. I'm a bad boy.

[Joe]

Huh? Man, you got.

[Ocho]

Hey, you. You gotta love that, bro. You gotta love it. And not only that, he goes out there and backs it up. He plays hard defensively, he guards, and then he can take over a game. I, I can see with Brian, I can see where he's at on this.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's not as far fetched as People think. I think the thing is, is that people look at historically, and they look at the time of Kevin Durant at Golden State, and KD is a bad boy, don't get me wrong. But until there's this perception, be it true or imagine, that KD in the postseason hasn't enjoyed a level of success outside of Golden State, be it true or imagined, but the facts line up.

[Ocho]

I think he got.

[Joe]

He got. Remember, he got swept his last. He got swept in. In. In the Nets. The Nets got swept by Boston. Yeah, he got. He got swept in Phoenix.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, look what he was playing with, though. That's not even.

[Joe]

See, that's. You see? What did. When have they ever said that about LeBron? Do they ever say, look what LeBron was playing with, Joe. What'd they say?

[Brian Windhorst]

But we.

[Joe]

We.

[Brian Windhorst]

We talk. We talk about. We talk about. We talk about ANT man and kd.

[Joe]

Yes, but look what ANT man got.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wait, look what. What ANT man got.

[Joe]

Yes. You do realize that. That KD got swept with Kyrie. Was Kyrie any good?

[Brian Windhorst]

Absolutely.

[Joe]

What about Devin Booker? Devin Booker any good? Okay, be careful now, Joe. I'm just asking. I don't know. Joe. Joe, the official basketball, out fishing. So we gotta have somebody that. That's. That's great and everything. You, the soccer guy. That's you, Ocho. Come to soccer. Yeah, Basketball. We go to Joe. Joe is Kyrie.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, he's some good. Y' all know he's some good in Brooklyn.

[Joe]

They got swept. Boston swept them. Is Devin Booker.

[Ocho]

Yes. We talking all NBA players. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. I think. I think the most disheartening thing when it comes to fans and people who speak on the game of basketball, especially.

[Joe]

No, stop.

[Ocho]

Stop it.

[Joe]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not. I'm still going. I'm gonna finish your point, but I just saw something.

[Ocho]

Dealing with Katie. Dealing with Katie is that. Yeah, they lost to the warriors, and then he went and joined them. I think people have a hard time respecting that.

[Joe]

Although he was up 3:1.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, 3:1. He was up 3:1. You supposed to put them boys away. But although he. He didn't go to the warriors and piggyback, I mean, hell, he still let him. He was the MVP of them two champions.

[Joe]

He was the Finals MVP twice. What you mean? Yeah, yeah, he was.

[Ocho]

He was the Finals mvp. If it wasn't for him, hell, they wouldn't win.

[Joe]

No, he wasn't no passenger. They need people to stop saying that. He was a passenger. Kevin Durant Was not no damn passenger.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, I ain't gonna lie. Brown was at his apex then. Boy, hey, listen, that's the only player you probably could have went and got that that was gonna get you.

[Joe]

That was the only one. And that's why they wouldn't.

[Ocho]

Because he was giving.

[Joe]

There's no way. There's no way. That team, that 73.9team, after LeBron walked them down 3:1. They were psychologically done. Kyrie was at his apex. They had no answer. They had no answer for Kyrie. They had no answer for LeBron, the boy. It was over. They had to go get a neutralizer, and Kevin Durant was it. Now, y' all said Kyrie was hurt, and J. No, no, no. James Harden was gone. Kyrie was not hurt when they got swept by the. By the. The. Yeah, the Celtics. Don't do that. Now, Kevin Durant is great. He's historically great, but the facts of the matter is the facts of the matter. It's kind of like y' all have revisionist history and y' all try to run every. Blend everything together. Don't do that. They got swept. Boston swept them. Then he went to. He went to Phoenix. Phoenix.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Just saying.

[Joe]

So it's not as far out of the. It's not out of the realm of possibility. I can see why Brian Windhorst said what he said, Man. And you wouldn't be wrong if you.

[Ocho]

Right now.

[Joe]

If you. Excuse me.

[Ocho]

If you agree right now. It's a lot of people who take ANT man over KD right now.

[Joe]

Yeah. I just said, you know what? Joe and I could be wrong. And I want to. Want you to eliminate what you think. It seems like as a player gets older, even though if he gives you the same numbers that he once gave you, they don't impact the game like he once did. The numbers don't.

[Ocho]

I think although kd, he's forever going to be an efficient scorer. I mean, he makes it look easy. But there was once upon a time where. I ain't saying he was, you know, all defensive player, but, you know, he. He was blocking shots. He. He would play some defense. I mean, hell, he's seven foot. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

And I just.

[Joe]

Especially Golden State. He was doing a lot of Golden State.

[Ocho]

He was. I think now, you know, he just got that thing, cruise control on offense to where, you know what? I'm gonna give y' all 25 to 28 a night. You know, I'm. Give you a few rebounds, few dimes, but for the most Part. I mean at 37 years old, he, he'll bucket still.

[Joe]

Yeah, he still give you 20, 23, 24 points a night, 20, 25 points a night and he's still shooting in, in, in, in, in the 50s.

[Ocho]

He just need. So you need them young. He need them young bucks to do the bulk of the, the heavy lifting. Meaning defensively, you know, rebounding.

[Joe]

I mean that was, I mean his thing, his thing was. And he goes in the state. He was a tremendous help defender. Like you said, he was seven foot tall. I mean what seven foot do, you know, be sitting in a chair and he's not, he's not Elijah1. That's not what. He's not a David. I mean, you know, he's not that type of defender. He's just not. But he did what they asked him to do. He did very well.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, he did.

[Joe]

But this notion that Kevin Durant. Oh, he went to Golden State and kicked. No, he didn't kick. Hey, had he not gone to Golden State, they not winning no two more championships. They're not winning those back. They're not winning those back to back championships in 17, 18. That ain't happening. And if he doesn't get hurt, they don't win back to back. They win three peat.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I don't care what people say. Toronto not beating them, not if KBD healthy.

[Ocho]

What was serious. It's hard when you. Because offensively you just had too much firepower. You couldn't double nobody. You just kind of had to live with it because look, I played against them guys in the playoff series when I was in Utah, the Warriors and the first championship run. We played against them in the second round.

[Brian Windhorst]

Boy, we're getting to it, Joe.

[Joe]

They smoked y'. All.

[Ocho]

What you mean? Like a blunt?

[Joe]

Huh?

[Ocho]

Man, they was on that pack.

[Joe]

Listen, hold on.

[Ocho]

They swept they first round series. So they had been waiting 10 days. We won seven games against the Clippers and we won game seven. We had one day of rest and then we had to play the man. They toe off with us. There wasn't nothing we can do with them boys. I know.

[Joe]

Look, I, I just, I, I think once KD a point guard. I think that's what they're missing this year. And guess what? It's going to get harder and harder for these older guys to win championship. Joe, this league is getting young and young and these guys are good.

[Ocho]

That's why I think these dudes gonna some way somehow I don't know how I think Braun, Katie or Giannis, I Don't know how two of them gonna end up on the same team. Two of them gonna end up on the same team. You watch what I tell you.

[Joe]

Yeah, they might need to do that to combat OKC and and San Antonio. What?

[Ocho]

Cause OKC ain't going nowhere no time soon, partner.

[Joe]

None.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Zero.

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Nah, I'm just kidding.

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[Joe]

K Cunningham returned with a double double as the Pistons routed the Bucks 137 111K 13 points, 10 assists in his return from injury, Cade had in place and sustaining a collapsed lung in a win against The wizard on March 17th. He appeared comfortable playing 26 minutes in short stance tonight. Jalen Duran had 2021 points, nine rebounds. JB Bickerstaff kept all five starters under 30 minutes. The Pistons won for the sixth time in eight games. Well, I mean, hell, he could have paid him under 25 minutes. He played the box.

[Ocho]

They in turmoil right now.

[Joe]

A. The box.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Hey, ain't no more fear of the deer.

[Brian Windhorst]

People.

[Joe]

People. People got. People got the deer head on the wall. Don't nobody fear the deer no more. Hey, hey, Joe, you remember fear the

[Ocho]

deer, Right, right, right. Bucks fans.

[Joe]

Hell, boy, y' all got. Y' all got bull week.

[Ocho]

K didn't even have to play tonight. The way. The way Pistons been playing.

[Joe]

They.

[Ocho]

I mean, the Bucks got so much turmoil going over there, they didn't need K tonight. But I'm sure they tried to get him acclimated before the postseason start.

[Joe]

Got to get him some run, man. You got to get him some run, Joe. You don't want that man going to playoff. Yeah, man, that joke alone I already know. But.

[Ocho]

But they got so many. Hey, hey, they. They kind of. They similar to the house, too, because they got so many guys who they can throw at you in waves. You know what I mean? Guys played pivotal minutes throughout the season because K was out. You know, they were still able to still keep that. That. That. That number one seed in the Eastern Conference. So that lets me know, man, they got. Look, they got guys who can come off the bench and get to that chicken. Ojo. The Pistons gonna be tough, man. They hang their head on defense, and they got a game changer in Cade. They gonna. They. They gonna be in good shape.

[Joe]

You look, I. I think that the. A key for them, Joe, is that come playoff time, how consistent can Duncan Robinson and Hurt shooting the three. How can. Because we've seen Duncan Robinson catch fire with the heat, and we've seen Herder, you know, we're at Rifle when he was in Atlanta. We've seen him in Sacramento, Chicago, so we know what he's capable of. Can. Can they keep everybody honest from packing Lane? Because. Because K is going to try to break down your defense now. If you try to. Hey, somebody send help. I'm gonna kick it to one of those guys and can they knock down the three? But I. I agree with you. You know, he's like, look, it ain't gonna take much for us to beat them. They don't quit. Let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and help them finish quitting. Let's jump on their ass. And they. Hey, they trying to get a lot. Listen, but if you.

[Ocho]

The Pistons, I'm gonna tell y', all, man, that Hornets team, they scary, Uncle Ocho. And oh, my God. And if they get that AC and you playing against the Pistons, playing the Hornets. Yeah. Hey, man, I don't know if the. I don't know if the Hornets can beat them, but I think they could. I think they'll make it.

[Joe]

They'll scare the hell out of.

[Ocho]

They'll make it very interesting.

[Brian Windhorst]

They make it seven games.

[Ocho]

I don't know if they'll make it seven, Ocho, but I just like the Hornets, man, because they play great basketball. They play together. And if Lamelo can continue to play at this mega star level that he's been playing at for like the past month or two, man, they gonna be tough to beat, bro. They got so many guys who could score the ball. They play the right way, they play hard, they gritty defensively. So they, They're a scary team. You don't. I mean, they are ascending. They've been ascending since about the new year, probably since about January, February. So it ain't. There ain't no team who you want to see, bro. I watched them play against Boston the other night. I think it was last night, if I ain't mistaken. And they had control of the whole game and end up losing, you know, in that second half. But for the most part, man, they can hang with anybody.

[Joe]

The way they shoot the three, they gonna get a bunch of them up and on in that stretch that you was talking about, Joe had two months, a lot of them was falling. You go back and look, and they were 20 or 43, there was 25 of this. And they had. I was like, well, damn. Cause you got Mellow can go get you 30 on a given night. Canyo can give you 30 on a given night. Miller, you got Miles, you got Bridges. So you got what, what.

[Ocho]

What's my guy coming off the bench from Chicago?

[Joe]

Oh, Kobe White.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

So they got guys, they, they, like you said, I don't know if they can beat them, but they can scare the hell out of them. They go like, damn, I sure wish we didn't have to play them in the first round. And, and, and they're just young enough and naive enough to not know any better. There you go, there you go.

[Ocho]

Cause see, when you don't understand the magnitude of the games because you rely on a few rookies, you know what I mean? Like, anything can happen, bro. Like, look, I love Con Canipple. He ain't just no spot up three point shooter. I seen him go off the dribble, shoot the midi, get to the basket. Like they got a lot of guys, man who can beat you in many different ways. You know, the Hornets have been a fun team to watch.

[Joe]

They have, they have. But I'm glad to see. I'm glad to see Cade back. I think it might be a little bit too late. I don't think he's going to be able to qualify for any of the awards. I mean he's all out. Damn them. I mean he, he last played he got injured against The Wizards on March 17th and here he is coming back today. It's the 8th. So he's a couple of days, you know, basically a couple of days short of being out a month.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So I think he's probably missed too many games to be. Because I think he's going to be a first. He was going to be a first

[Ocho]

or second team all oh no question.

[Joe]

Now that's out of the equation. And what that does Ocho and guys we're going to have probably two guys that miss it.

[Ocho]

Cade Ant man. Gonna miss Ant Man.

[Joe]

So that's three guys. So guess what that does guys that brings somebody that wasn't going to make it, that moves somebody from second team to first team, somebody from 13 to second team and that takes somebody three guys that weren't going to be make it. They're gonna make it. And guess what that does. That puts them in line for a max or a super max contract. So here's the thing. NBA, why you tried to why you tried to do one thing, clean up something on one end, you make it dirty on the back end because guess what you did. You're gonna have guys that probably are just like fringe players that they're going to have an all NBA selection on their resume and all the NBA selections. That means guess what I and I'm in line for a max and a super max contract. So while you hurt somebody, while you might have hurt a Cade or Luke or Ant man because they already playing on that number and they. And I'm sure you they'll they'll next year they'll be able to play and get right back there. But you're taking guys that might not be an all NBA selection again. And guess what? I got this one on my record.

[Ocho]

That's all they. That's all that counts. That's all that counts. Because when we go to the negotiating table, you know I got this in my back pocket. Now what you gonna tell me you got you're gonna have to run that little bread. You got to run that little bread O Joe.

[Joe]

Well, you know we don't, I don't know what you think but this is what I know. What I know is that one of those three, all them big so that basically saying I'm a top 15 selection. Right. So guess what? Somebody was going to be 16, 17, 18. All of a sudden it's going to be 13, 14, 15.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Oh my goodness. So now you get to add that extra year. Now you get to add 50, 60 million dollars in the fifth year.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So NBA, I know you tried to do all good but no good deed going punished man.

[Ocho]

It's some guys looking at it, looking at it right now. I'm talking about they like oh we, I know I'm next in line. I'm make third team now. Oh yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

We're in the money. We're in the money.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, it's a, it's a good thing for those players that are friends, players that might not ever have, might, might not ever have the opportunity, you know to be first or second team. All NBA selections where you get to get to get to that bag man.

[Joe]

Hey you. Hey Joe. Y' all remember players club with what's it called? Me Cabinet. Hey, Uncle Lou here.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey, hey. What about, hey, what about Trading Places? Mortimer.

[Joe]

And that and that's how it go.

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[Joe]

Nah, I'm just kidding.

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[Ocho]

oh, we back.

[Joe]

After the Lakers lost last night, JJ Reddick crawled out the entire team on ruy. He wasn't doing his job. I took his ass out. He didn't say ass out on Vando. It was a confluence of things he did wrong. Damn. Oh, Ayton. He can't catch the ball. Reddick also said. Also got into the on the sideline with Vandal ready. Called timeout just 16 seconds into the second quarter to sub Vandal out for the game. Telling don't connect the chicken. In his place, Vando walked over and. And let him hear it. Joe, are the cracks starting to show with the.

[Ocho]

Well, I don't want to say the cracks are starting to show, man. You gotta look at it from this standpoint. I mean, damn, you got two of your best players out, you know, who, who, who makes the game easier for everybody else. Now, if those guys are out and you putting Van do and these guys in advantageous situations to where now they gotta do. They gotta do stuff offensively that they're not accustomed to doing or, you know, basically playing both ends of the court like, yeah, it's gonna be some mishaps. It's gonna be some, you know, some grunts. Some players grunt disgruntled because of, you know, there's not, there's. There's not many opportunity, man. These ain't guys who you Just throw the ball to, and they can go get you a bucket. They play great off of your great players, you know what I mean? So now that Luca and AR is out, I mean, hell, Brian didn't play. Damn. What, Ocho? What y'.

[Joe]

All.

[Ocho]

What y'.

[Brian Windhorst]

All.

[Ocho]

What y' all want us to do? What y' all want me to do?

[Joe]

And that's what Vandal said.

[Ocho]

Hold on.

[Joe]

No Braun, no Ar, no Luca. And then you hadn't played Dalton connect since Hammer was a hatchet. And now all of a sudden, you gonna. 16 seconds. I just got in and we play. I ran up the court and we

[Ocho]

playing against okc, the best team in the damn league. They just beat us by 50 the other day.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey.

[Joe]

And now they came back and got us by 37. Go ahead, Ocho.

[Brian Windhorst]

I say coach got to know, man. He got to know. Oh, know your personnel, Joe.

[Joe]

No, but know your person.

[Ocho]

Know your personnel.

[Joe]

You too. Honest.

[Ocho]

He can't. Yeah.

[Joe]

Cause he ain't lie. DeAndre ain't got the worst hands I've ever seen. You know what?

[Ocho]

I. I noticed that too, man. Cause I'm like, he. He do be missing a lot of. You know them look. Yeah, but, man, you.

[Joe]

You.

[Ocho]

I mean, that's. I don't think that was a. Well, I think for. For jj, it was a situation to where he could make a point. You know what I mean? Like, listen, I'm gonna put my foot down. We're gonna get our ass kicked tonight, but I'm gonna chew off in these dudes ass tonight.

[Joe]

But that just goes to show you. Look how those guys look. Look how those guys look. Okc. Look when Shay and Jalen Williams weren't playing. Look how they look now. Look how Lakers players look when they big guns no play. Look at other teams when their big guns don't play. How they look.

[Ocho]

Well, damn.

[Joe]

And y' all talk about the Lakers. Oh, the Lakers. Loaded with what? With what? With what?

[Ocho]

They got.

[Joe]

How many? How many, Joe, be honest. How many quality minutes are those guys getting up there on other continuing teams?

[Ocho]

None. I mean, you. I mean, for the Lakers, you just got too many key guys out. I mean, look, Marcus Smart out with Luke LeBron. I mean, damn, what you expect?

[Joe]

I. I just. I just expect. Joe, if I throw you the ball, you to catch it. That's all I want you to do. It don't let. And don't let it go out of bounds. And the man said it was a confluence of things that he did wrong. Well, damn.

[Ocho]

Other than.

[Joe]

Other than having Jersey tucked in and chucking in the game. That was the only thing he seemingly did right. That was. That was just.

[Ocho]

I mean, with them you playing, you arguably playing against the best defensive team in the league. Man, these dudes ain't they stingy. They ain't giving up nothing. Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

See, no matter who hurt.

[Joe]

Well, okay, I can understand that. But here's the thing, Joe. Like you said, you was in the right spot. Even I'm gonna be where I supposed to be. So we cut the tape on. I'm where I'm supposed to be. Yeah. So I'm. I can't let who we playing dictate how I play. Ooh. I will be where I supposed to be. I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do. It's seemingly. And I could be wrong, I could be totally off base, but JJ wasn't pleased. Jj, like, because the one thing about the little while that I did work with him, he's a very, very serious guy, and he ain't got no problem. He gonna tell you now that ain't what happened. Nope. He very meticulous with notes. I mean, he come out there and he know, like, he should have. He should have been a lawyer because his nose are immaculately wrote. You're like, yes, yes. He like. He write a dissertation. Absolutely. I'm like, well, damn, My. My nose don't look nothing like this. Hell, my nose probably only I can read them.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Somebody get his nose, they're gonna be able to read everything because it's so. I mean, to the T. To the T.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. He got nose like that. So I'm. I'm just concerned about. Sometimes, like I said, the coach say. Like my coach told me one time, say, Sean, sometimes I got a lot to them. Sometime I got to tell them they good. When. Yeah. Not sometimes I got to tell them they're doing a good job when they're not.

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, I mean, think. Think about it, though. Think about it. I think. I think with the Lakers getting embarrassed last night at home, fellas, I think that's really what set JJ Off. You know, you. You making. You making. You know, put brush that under the rug on the road. But when you at home in front of those Laker, that. That Laker crowd, Regardless of who.

[Joe]

Just play hard. Just play hard. Joe. Joe, they quit. Joe, you. Do you hold on? At one point in time, the score was 43. Was 42. 42. I look back up the score, 63, 47.

[Ocho]

It sound about right.

[Joe]

That's no. 6. Yeah. Like 69, 47. But anyway, I think they went on like a 20. They went on like a 23, a 255 or 275 run.

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Joe]

The score was 42, 42. And then they go on the 27. They go on like a 255 or 27 5.

[Ocho]

Man. But listen, Lakers depleted the OKC Thunder. They're healthy. They're fully healthy. They ready for the postseason again, Ocho. They ain't playing no games.

[Joe]

Joe, can I just get you to play hard? Can I get you to be where you're supposed to be if I throw you the ball, catch it, even if you miss the shot? But Joe, if I throw you the ball and it goes out of bounds, well, then what I'm supposed to do if you're not where you're supposed to be on defense, if we got, if we, if we calling for a pick at the top, bro, why I gotta keep. Go set the pick? Why I gotta keep doing that? Because why I gotta keep saying get

[Brian Windhorst]

over, get over Them lights bright over there in la, huh, Joe?

[Joe]

And all the joker. All the jokers, they've been playing, they've been in the NBA a while. Ruin's been in the league far too long. Oh, whoa, whoa.

[Brian Windhorst]

They've been in the NBA for a while. They ain't been in that Lakers under them type of lights and that type of pressure for a while. It's a difference. Your big guns out, your big guns not playing.

[Joe]

Rui has been in those situations. Rui was on the team that went to the Western Conference finals against Denver. Roy was in the situation when they played when they was on the road and he hit big shot after big shot. Joe, you remember he's hitting big shot at the big shot against Memphis. He and AR damn near single handedly on that game because hey, LeBron's like, nope, keep. He kept beating him, kept feeding them and then LeBron got him, got him back. Then when they got back to got back to la Bronson, y' all done?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's over. It's over for y'. All. And he had that, that monster game the last game, but I, I think it. And that's why I couldn't coach. That's because you got a lot.

[Ocho]

That's because they expecting, they was expecting too much from Aiden last night. Just keep it 100.

[Joe]

I mean from a, from a number one overall draft pick that's seven foot tall, that's in a contract year. I'm expecting too much.

[Ocho]

Yeah, because the guys who he typically play off of hell, they ain't out here tonight. I ain't like, Aiden can get the rebound and bring it up like a point. He got the. You know what I mean? Like.

[Joe]

But I gave him the ball, Joe. He gave it back to him by throwing.

[Ocho]

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying he been playing like this, uncle. What I'm saying, I'm saying. But the fact that you've had ar, Luke and Bron out there, hell, that shit go by the wayside. But now that they ain't out there, now it's very glaring because it's magnified.

[Joe]

Yeah, everything gets magnified when those guys are not there to cover it.

[Ocho]

So. So now. Yeah, you gonna use him as a scapegoat? Yeah, he. He say he's sick of aiding stuff.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah. He's an ak. Catch the ball and. And that's how it is sometimes. I mean, you got been playing like poop, but you had guys to pick the poop up.

[Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

Now when there's nobody there to pick it up or cover it up, you're like, well, damn, is everybody just gonna let the dog just go out here? Cause I'll be walking. I'm like, bro, it makes me mad. The guy.

[Redfin Announcer]

Hold on.

[Joe]

You pick the poop up, put it in the bag, and then throw the

[Ocho]

bag on the ground.

[Joe]

You should have just left it down there. I mean, how so, Joe? How sorry do, Chad, how sorry do you have to be? You pick up behind your dog and then instead of carrying it and putting in the trash can at your home, you throw the bag on the ground with the poop in it.

[Ocho]

Hey, that's why I walk my dog at night. I don't take that dunk. We're gonna leave.

[Joe]

We. Let's go. Come on, Joe. Joe. See Joe, get some bag to pick it up. Come on, Joe, don't be that guy. Hey. Oh, my goodness.

[Ocho]

Hey, that's why I walk my dog at night, Ocho. Hey.

[Joe]

Oh, you. Oh, you don't pick up. You don't pick up.

[Ocho]

I ain't got no bag or nothing, man. We just out there.

[Joe]

Get the bag. Joe. Joe, come on, Joe.

[Ocho]

Man, that man be dropping some lows. You know, the mastiff, you know you done that.

[Joe]

I've had two. I've had two bull mastiffs. I got a Boreble. I got a Nikita. Yes. I got the giant size bag. And some of them. Sometimes it'd be like. Like a Dairy Queen cone. I said, bro, get up, brother. Hey, you know, if, you know For a dog to go in front of you, that means he trusts you. Because that's vulnerable. That's why. That's why the dog looking at you people like, well, why the dog looking at me? Cause he's like, okay, you got me, right? Cause you know I'm in the world.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey.

[Joe]

It's just like if you on the toilet, somebody come beat the brakes off me. That's why you lock the door, man. You don't want somebody to run down on your own show. That's a man. Don't, don't. Hey, just let me put my clothes. Hey.

[Ocho]

And don't let it be running too, boy. I'm damn sure you're picking it up. I'm sorry.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, sir.

[Joe]

My grandma beat my brother. Had my brother did something. My brother have no shirt on. You gonna beat me like this? You damn right shut down on him. He thought he gonna put it. He thought he granny gonna let him put that T shirt on. Granny. And you know, my granny had to tell. Yeah, I had to shut down on that boy ass. Yeah, well, my grandma was a snitch. That's where I got it from, guys.

[Ocho]

My grandma tell it. Yeah,

[Joe]

but, but J.J. told the truth. Max Kellerman says that he would rather have Cooper flag over Lucha Luka Doncic coming into the NBA. I would rather have Cooper flag over Luca. I like his style of play. I like. Luca is better playmaker, but Luca isn't a defender. Cooper is excellent. Cooper flag is one of these actual that can defend one through five level players. He's an athletic and he has a style I like, which can lead to winning in a championship. He can be the best player on the championship team. I would say he's the best teenager since LeBron. Well, that's not really, that's not really going out on the limb because his

[Ocho]

numbers, I mean, his numbers is better his rookie year than LeBron's. But I don't, I, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a Cooper Flag fan. I, I, I, I like him. I like everything about him. He's been thrust into a situation, but, man, do y'. All, I don't know. A lot of people don't remember when Luca first came into the league, bro, he probably was about £20 slimmer, you know what I mean? He used to go through that lane and dunk that ball, you know what I mean?

[Joe]

He, he, he, he a hell of

[Ocho]

a shooter, a hell of a scorer. Obviously. He understands angles. He has a high IQ for the game, but you can't take. You can't take that for granted, man. He ain't like. Ain't like he's 6, 2, 63 out here. Now.

[Joe]

Let me ask you a question. If I take Cooper Flag and I take. And I take Cooper Flag and I put him on that Dallas team and I remove Luca, can he do what Luca did with. Doing to the cliffs? No, no, with. With Kawhi PG and all those defenders. See, I, I think some people you lose sight of just how great Luca is. And I get it. He's not, he's not the. And most of the time guys. Because I think when we get guys that can score a bunch of points, you get a guy like a Kobe, you get Jordan, you get LeBron that's averaging 27, 28. And you like, man, look at. They lock it down on both ends more times than not. Guys that could score a lot of points didn't play great defense. Right. It takes too much out of you to. Okay, I'm gonna go give you this work on one end. All of a sudden, I'm gonna sit in the chair and try to do what I do for 30, 36 to 40 minutes.

[Ocho]

He wasn't, he wasn't known for being a defensive player. Coming up, Luca coming into the league like he never was known to be a stopper.

[Joe]

What European player is known for defense?

[Ocho]

There you go.

[Joe]

They might block some shots, aka AK47. Andre Korolenko would block some shots, but he wasn't sitting on that chair. I mean, to sit in that chair. You, you, you tell him, you take it for granted. But look, I'm not saying Cooper Flag. Like I said, I saw Cooper flag and I saw him coming out of Maine. But what I was impressed was when I saw them joker scrimmage against the men's national team that was taking their ass to Paris and try to get that gold medal. And what he was doing to those guys, I said, oh, yeah, he have no problem. Yeah, that's. That's. That's 12 or however many players we sent over there. That's what we. That's our best we got.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he's a.

[Joe]

That's bam. That's Bam. That's ad. He giving them work? Yeah, he's.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah, he adjusted. Well, he probably. He got off to a rocky start to start his rookie year. But you talking about the second half of this season. Yeah, he's picked it up tremendously.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's been bought him.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he's been everything. He's been everything they imagine.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, more. But he had to grow up.

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Joe]

Because like you said, he tired of losing. I ain't losing. No, I ain't losing high school. I ain't losing but a handful of games in college, and here we go. I'd have lost more games on a damn week than I lost my whole college career. Man, losing suck, man.

[Ocho]

Hey, that NBA different, bro. It's a reality.

[Joe]

Yeah. And you can think about it. Even you can win. Think about this. I mean, going 62 and 20. 20 lost 20 damn games. These guys. Some of these guys lose more games than in. In. In. In. In an NBA season. Then they lost all the high school and all the college. Yeah.

[Ocho]

And you don't know how a guy gonna be able to deal with that, Uncle Ocho, you know what I mean? That. That. That losing can break you, bro. It'll make you. It'll make you lose sight of where you at, how you got to where you at. You know what I mean? Like, imagine. Imagine being on a team, bro, and y' all only win eight, nine games out of 82, man. You gonna. You might lose a little bit of your swag. You know what I mean? Come and tell you. I know. I always bring this up, talking about when I first came here to Atlanta, 1129 games, man. It's hard to enjoy outside the outside of basketball. You can't. You don't want to go nowhere. You don't want to see nobody.

[Joe]

No.

[Ocho]

You don't want to hang out. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

That's. Hey, that's tough. Yeah, actually. Because guess what? Guess what happens when they see you. Hell, if you was home. That's why y' all win more games. Your ass was not in the club. Hey, that's what you get. I didn't. I didn't go out that much. I mean, we were losing. Like. That's why y' all losing. Hell, all y' all in here, I'm like, well, damn, man. Hey, we ain't supposed to have no life. I said, you know what? I said, you know what? You're right. Let me stay my living. We lose. Let me stay my black ass hole. Let me take my ass home. We'll lose the drone, boy.

[Ocho]

Right, right. I swear, boy.

[Joe]

Hey, go ahead, Ocho. What you want to say?

[Brian Windhorst]

Not sure. Hey, I only had one winning season. 11 years.

[Joe]

Damn.

[Brian Windhorst]

I ain't had no guy. Hey, I ain't had no choice, Joe.

[Joe]

So you going out regardless.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, I got no. I know. I didn't really go nowhere. I'm just. I'm Just saying, you know, I show my face, but I didn't allow it to affect me. And what I had.

[Ocho]

I'm saying, was it something to do in Cincinnati? Ocho, it's something to do in.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but Cincinnati, one of the greatest cities of all time in comparison to Atlanta. Atlanta and Houston.

[Ocho]

Yeah. You saying it can compete in Atlanta and Houston?

[T-Mobile Announcer]

Yes.

[Joe]

No, that's not what he's saying, Joe.

[Ocho]

He lying, ain't it?

[Joe]

He sure is.

[Ocho]

My grandma, she don't like me.

[Joe]

Yeah, you can't say lying, telling the story.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, Joe, listen to him.

[Joe]

No, it's not.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, Joe. Joe. It's a hidden gem that most people don't know about unless you. Unless you. You from there or you play there. You wouldn't understand.

[Joe]

ISO speed say he from Cincinnati. And say the women terrible. Now, that's what he's saying. He from there speeding.

[Ocho]

Y'. All. Y' all excuse me for a minute.

[Joe]

You go against you.

[Ocho]

You see my glass? You see my glass? I know y' all probably ain't got nothing in front of y'. All. Uncle look like he on the road somewhere.

[Joe]

Yeah, I'm on the road, but I'll be back. I'll be back soon.

[Ocho]

I'll be.

[Joe]

Hey, I'll be. I'll be in the.

[Ocho]

Hey, your girl. Your girl, she seen my lady at the gym and.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ocho]

Shelly and she. Yeah, make sure Joe get these glasses. And I said, it's what. What better time for me to put on my toasty. I know y' all ain't got nothing going on, but what you.

[Brian Windhorst]

What you drinking, Joe?

[Joe]

Hey, Joe. Joe, let me tell you how you do take it. Hey, get you some. I put. Put some ginger ale in there. I don't know if you've ever had it with ginger ale. Yeah, it's real nice, Joe.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, you know we only to use ginger ale when we sick.

[Joe]

My grandma said get some ginger ale ready. You do know I'm, like, running 104 fever, you know? Yeah, she got everything going on. Hey, but you know the Moby. When you get sick, you just need to go boo boo. What Boo boo got to do with me sick? Hey, my stomach can't hurt. Go Boo boo. What is that, Granny?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Okay. The fight between Giannis and Milwaukee over playing time just got a little bit more complicated. As it turns out, the real money on the line is that nobody's talking about publicly until now. Multiple sources said the buck's decision to sit Giannis Antetokounmpo caused him significant bonuses and in his Nike endorsement contract that would have been triggered if he played at least 41 games. That adds a lot of context behind Greek freaks insistence on playing despite the team wanting to shut him down for the remainder of the season. The truth comes out. It just isn't about competitive pride. It's because he literally in financial incentives in a shoe contract. Milwaukee decision is costing him. I think it's twofold, I believe. Obviously, man, bro. They might add some extra years at 10, 15, $20 million. Second, who's on his. Who's on his team?

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Joe]

Now, what are the likelihood. Pat Rye. Let's just say for the sake of argument, to appease Ocho Joe, the Heat trade for it. What do you think the likelihood. Pat Rider said, you know what? I want the two brothers, too. What you think the likelihood is that Ocho.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, no, Pat Riley ain't good, huh?

[Joe]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm just being honest with you. Unless Pat decides all of a sudden blue changes. Would you. What? You know he's not gonna do because he stuck to his guns since. Hell for how long now?

[Joe]

And I don't think since he was in my. Since he was the head coach of the Lakers.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, listen, if he didn't. If he didn't buzz for the king, he not budging the creek.

[Ocho]

He gonna have to get his ass in line like everybody else ain't. Hey, look, we trading for Giannis. Your damn brothers. Them. They gonna have to figure it out. They gave me. Yeah, they ain't doing that.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey.

[Joe]

Hey.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know what's funny is when I think about the NBA and I think about the power that the players have, one of the few. One of the few organizations where the players have the power. Not the, you know, the owners of the gm, owners of the gym. To the head coaches is if Yanis say. If I say I'm healthy and I want to play, hell, he should be able to. You would think the way they operate. Hell, I'm gonna put my uniform on and I'm going in the starting lineup no matter what y' all say. No matter what.

[Joe]

No, they didn't. Now you get. Now you insubordinate. Now I'm gonna take some more. I'm gonna take your money from you. Is that what you want? Conduct detrimental to the team. Yeah, that what you want.

[Ocho]

Nah, get.

[Joe]

Yeah, at least. At least Joe right now, you know this. He getting his bread. You do something like that. Now I gotta. I gotta take concert. Yeah, yeah. And them checks. Oh, them check probably like 3, 400,000 a game. Man, you know really what you want.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. I know what they're looking like, man. Well, you ain't got to tell. You ain't got to tell me twice, but.

[Joe]

Yeah, but now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Now.

[Joe]

Now y' all doing me wrong, but I'm gonna sit on over here.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but listen, listen. You're sitting over there, you're obliging with what they want, but now you're messing up my shoe money. My shoe money add up, too.

[Joe]

You messed up my season by talking about you wanting to be traded, right? You messing up my money. You. You messing up my leverage, my ability to trade you, right? You see? You see what you did? Okay? Even swap ain't no swindle. You mess my. You mess up your trade value, I mess up your money, we both got something messed up.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, it's funny. You know what? Now that you said it like that, that's probably exactly how they think.

[Joe]

Well, yeah, of course it's exactly how they think.

[Ocho]

Well, the thing is, it's protocol, fellas.

[Joe]

They. They just.

[Ocho]

Just because you say you healthy, man, like I said before, you got to show us something in practice that. Before we just throw you out there on the floor. You know what I mean? And I think Giannis has. He hasn't been one to, you know, cooperate when it comes to, like, playing two on two, three on three, to prepare to gauge and lead up to him getting out there playing five on five, he just feel like shit. I'm healthy, so just put me out there. I'm gonna put up numbers. And they ain't willing to do it for a number of reasons, because, look, you put him out there and he get hurt, then what? Akin Ocho, Okay? Like, they ain't the man. They ain't trying to deal with that.

[Joe]

And you've had. And what have we had over the last couple of years? Calves, calves, lead to what?

[Ocho]

Yep.

[Joe]

Achilles. Nah, you're not going to do that. You're not really going to suppress the market. But here's the thing. What we're talking about. Ocho, he says he wants to play. We took your word when you say you was hurt and you couldn't play. We took your word for it. Now you want us to take your word for it and say that you can play, right? We didn't question you right Now. Now, all of a sudden, you see, and I'm. Everybody knows I'm pro players, but sometimes when you start to own a business, you have to look at things from a business standpoint, right? And so that's what I'm like, okay, okay, I can see. I can see what you're talking about. So all these concessions that they've made, I'm a firm believer is that nobody is going to love you like your original. The team that drafted you. I had a conversation with a great wide receiver once, and he's like, man, he's like, oh, man, I need to just leave. And I say, I'm gonna tell you this, and it's gonna be your decision, and I'm never gonna steal you.

[Ocho]

Wrong.

[Joe]

I said, yeah, you can probably go and you might win. I said, but they're not gonna love you like they do where you are, man, because you're their own. They watched you come in and they watched you grow in the community, and they watch you as a young man come into a full grown adult, man. They watch that. This other team, they're just gonna be happy to have you. You're just gonna be one of the other hired guns that they've had along the way. Nothing's going to be special about you, bro. Nah, he thought about a couple days, like, man, you right. So Giannis go and think, so he gonna be sweet. You think the Lakers. You think The Lakers love LeBron like they did in Cleveland? You think Miami love LeBron like they did in Cleveland? Or do they love Dwyane Wade? Or do they love Kobe? Do they love Shaq, huh? Or do they love Bam? Or they do love. Do they love Alonzo Morty?

[Ocho]

I'm not.

[Joe]

Huh? See, that's what. And I think. I don't think enough players think about it like that. It's like, man, I just need to go, go, go, go. Okay, fine. I'm never going to stand in the way of a person wanting to get his money. But just understand, and when they don't gravitate towards you like they did in your original Destiny location, you can't be mad. You just can't. You can't even. Even though. And think about it. Even though Lonzo. Lonzo was at the Hornets first. Yeah, he was at the Hornets first. People and people. And for whatever reason he was, they like, nah, nah, Zo hours. He was not D. Wade. He not bam. That are OGs. Yeah, that's how it goes, man. So, Giannis, wherever you go, and you might win a championship, I hope you do, they're not gonna love you like they did.

[Ocho]

Nah, they not. But I. I bet you Giannis is thinking like this, okay? Ocho, he thinking, okay, I got two years left on my deal, but if they trade me this summer, then wherever I'm at, I can play. And then the next summer I can get that five years versus you gonna get full.

[Joe]

Cause you got traded.

[Ocho]

But I'm saying he'll get to play.

[Joe]

You know, he'll get to play a

[Ocho]

full year wherever he got traded.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

So at the end of the ne. At the end of that season, they'll be able to offer him that big deal.

[Joe]

I think once you get traded, Joe, I think that is. Look that up, Ash. Look that up. I think that's the thing. That's what they try to do because they want to keep you at the.

[Ocho]

So you saying he can't get.

[Joe]

So that's why they can offer. That's why they can offer you that extra year, which is that fifth year at that max number.

[Ocho]

Right? Okay.

[Joe]

Look that up, Ash. I. I think. I think now maybe if you stay for. Because a lot of times you have to. I think Luca could only sign a four year deal. Now, if he. Once he plays, he can come back because this is.

[Ocho]

Luca got traded in his contract year, right?

[Joe]

No, I think he had another. Oh, did he?

[Ocho]

So it'd be the same as Giannis. Giannis got.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Joe]

Oh, they would have never let him get that. Oh, no, because remember, that's what. See, that's what Milwaukee is saying. Milwaukee says, sign the deal or we trading you. We're not gonna let you walk out the door like Kate. That'd be foolish business. You can never let a guy. You can never let a guy of that caliber get to the last year of his deal. Because if you do, he done. It's done.

[Ocho]

That's why they. That's. That's why they gotta. That's why I think they gotta trade him this summer, fellas. They. They can't bring him back. You know, considering everything that they're going through right now, I think Giannis is a little disgruntled. He probably will never come out and actually say it or demand a trade. But I can bet you behind the scenes they probably gonna be working when this season's over with to get him traded this summer for sure.

[Joe]

Oh, he go. He gone. According to. According to ESPN, Giannis is eligible for a four year, $275 million extension in October. And if he stays in Milwaukee, if he's traded during the off season, he would need to wait six months from the trade date to sign the extension, which would be four years, correct, Ash? Yes. So.

[Brian Windhorst]

So he gonna get it no matter where you go then, huh?

[Joe]

I don't Think you can. I don't, I don't know if he can get that. So if he signed, if he signed. If he waits six months after the, the trade and sign the extension, how much does, how much is the four year extension then? Because it's kind of what they try, what they try to do is kind of like what the NFL did Ocho, because they didn't want the quarterbacks to leave. That's what the franchise tag was really, really, really envisioned. The key guys, the quarterbacks, your Bruce Smith, your Jerry's, your Emmons. We want to keep those guys. So we'll pay you the average of the top five. So what this is the max. The supermax is basically to keep. Because we can give you something no other team can. We can offer that fifth year. The other team, they give you four. Now if you want for. Look, four years at 225, that's good money. We can give you five. We can give you five years.

[Ocho]

But hey, hey, hey. Depending on where he go though, he can, he can make it up and, and off the court endorsements. Depending on where you go. Because this markets, because Milwaukee ain't no huge market. So if he was so he was a ghost.

[Joe]

Well, you need to get a Harley deal. He should have got a Harley deal.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hey, I know, I know one market he can go to. He'll make it up no matter what.

[Ocho]

The damn Texas gonna kick his ass though.

[Joe]

California even worth 13.3 that state. And when you kick it, and when you kick in that for that 36 at the Fed level. So they taking 49 of your money. Hey, you got to kick in meta killing fica, your agent fees, your attorneys. So when it's all said and done, that, let's just say somebody getting a hundred million, you down to probably like 47, 46, right after taxes. And you pay. Cause they take it three and a half percent. Your agent take three and a half percent. Your financial guy got to get his cut. Come on now with your ass. Whoa, whoa. You think I'm working for free? You ain't working for free. Yeah, hey, you and I both know we, we got managers, we got, we got attorneys, we got agents. I've been paying money since 90. Well, my first couple of contract, I ain't played nothing. Cause I had my brother's agent, he's like, nah, he ain't making no money. You can't charge me.

[Ocho]

What you talking about? When you see all that money you having to spit out like that? Cause I know exactly what you talking about. Attorneys and hey, but look, that's why. That's why. Boy, that Florida, that Miami don't sound bad. Yes, fellas.

[Joe]

Hey, they got a team. Where else they got. They got no taxes that they ain't got no tech. We ain't got no team in Vegas yet. Does Tennessee got a team member?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

What about Dallas?

[Joe]

Dallas, Houston?

[Ocho]

Dallas? Nope.

[Joe]

I'm just trying to see where you look here. I don't know if y' all noticed, but 13, when you making that kind of money, you do realize, 13, if you making $50 million a year.

[Ocho]

Hey, hold up, though. Hold up, hold up. Houston got some pieces over there, though.

[Joe]

Oh, I thought you.

[Ocho]

They got some. I'm saying

[Joe]

they got some two legged pieces.

[Ocho]

You talking about them quarter pieces, the dying pieces. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you talking about.

[Joe]

But they got some pieces they could,

[Ocho]

they, you know, if they underachieve this year, they could possibly give. Get up off of and bring Giannis over there with kd.

[Joe]

Oh, I still, I still think they need a point guard. I think Van Fleet. I think they need Van Fleet. I think he's the missing ingredient. They need a point guard. They need a point guard.

[Ocho]

They do, but it's gonna, hey, it's gonna be some furniture moving this summer. Fellas, I'm talking about. I think. I know Brian just built that. I know he building that old half of minutes, 100 million. I can see Braun teaming up with some guys, bro.

[Brian Windhorst]

Where at? Joe, what do you think about.

[Ocho]

Hey, look, I can see Giannis and Braun teaming up together,

[Joe]

but you know What? If I'm LeBron, man, I'm done chasing rings. I'm gonna go to a bad team because we've seen on a bad team what he can do. Yeah. At the number one or number two option, LeBron can still give you 25, 26 a night. Did you just not, did you not see him on a bad team when you just played Sunday against the Mavericks? He gave you 30. He gave you what? 30, 15 and nine.

[Ocho]

It's just, he need, he needs some more ball handling duties and, but he understand the role he's. He's in right now with Ar and Luca playing the way they've been playing, Like I said, because he started off the season slow, meaning he, he, he missed the first, what, 15 games or so, and, and they were playing great. He just, you know, put himself into where he wasn't going to be disruptive. You know what I mean? He was going to be a complimentary piece to those guys. And I think he's done a great job with that, but. Yeah, Uncle, I agree with you. You put him on a team. I ain't saying necessarily to where he is the guy, but where he can handle the Rock, make decisions, you know, make plays. Yeah, he still. He still got some ball left in him.

[Joe]

Oh, word? Oh, no worse than two?

[Ocho]

Yeah. No worse than.

[Joe]

Yeah. Oh, he gonna get. He. Yeah. Yeah. He. He'll give you the numbers that he gave you last year. Cause if you go back and look like when games were okay, Lucas out or game where AR is out, and now he has more responsibilities.

[Ocho]

He gonna do his thing.

[Joe]

Yes, but I'm not surprised by this. The only thing is, is that Giannis kept trying to be sneaky about it. Oh, you know, whatever my agent decides, you know, I don't. Bro, your agent works at the behest of you. And he doesn't want the criticism with coming because he saw the criticism that LeBron got. He saw the criticism that KD got. He saw the criticism that some of these other guys got, and he doesn't want that. So he wants to pretend. He wants to throw the rock. We know you broke the window. He got my agent. No, bro, agents don't just like, the same thing. Ocho, we talked about with Nico. Yeah, okay, Nico. That fell on Nico. But the owner, Josh Dumont, threw the table on it.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So Giannis leaving Milwaukee, I got no problem with it. So I don't want y' all saying, but. Oh, so you got a problem? No, I don't. The only problem I got is that he won't stand up and face the. He won't stay. Face the music. Yeah. Yeah. I want out. You know, I don't feel I can win here anymore. I don't.

[Ocho]

I don't.

[Joe]

I don't. I don't think they can put the pieces around me. But everything that they've done over the last four to five years was at your bequest, at your. They got rid of the coach. You don't think. You think they did that without Giannis Vincent? That man was second in the East.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah, they went. God dang. You don't think. Yeah, you think. Yanis didn't sign up on that. They got rid of Holiday. They got rid of all those pieces. That was because of Giannis. That was Giannis's blessing.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You got to own it, though, bro. It's okay. You're not the first to request a trade. You're not the first to move pieces. That comes along with the territory. You're a superstar. Superstars get certain privileges, and that's okay. But don't hide behind it, bro. You don't make it seem like they want to get rid of you. You know, you've been asking for this for a minute, and they should have moved you last year.

[Ocho]

He don't want that.

[Joe]

They should have moved you last year.

[Ocho]

He don't want that backlash, man.

[Joe]

No, he does.

[Ocho]

Even with that. Even with that, I still think, you know, he'll be all right. I mean, it's just part of it. It's part of being a mega star. Obviously, things ain't going right in Milwaukee, man. You gotta at least get you some pieces, get you some good pieces. And I think Milwaukee kind of trying to wait to this draft to kind of see who get what picks and who can really help them, you know what I mean? Because, okay, we. Okay, we can trade Giannis. We gonna package you with these picks because maybe we can get a top three pick or a top five pick out this draft, right? To send Giannis off, okay, that's a different story. You know what I mean? Now we bring in one of these young phenoms who can carry us for the next 10, 12, 15 years. So I think that's why they waiting.

[Joe]

Joe Ocho. Yeah. I bring Ocho in, I do everything Ocho ass. I hire Chauncey, I hire his best. I. I hire Ryan, I give Doug a job. Things don't go right, man, I've done everything Ocho asked me to do. Then when things don't go right, man, I can't make, bro. I hired Chauncey, I hired Ryan, I hired Doug, and now things ain't going right. You want to dip? I done brought both of your damn brothers in. I got you a new coach. I got up off holiday. I got up off of. Well, damn. You don't think. I mean, does Giannis think that we're that naive to not to think that he has that kind of leverage in Milwaukee? They held onto him because they don't want to trade him. They don't want to trade him, but they just know he's not going to sign. And I'm not going to let you walk out the door. And I don't mean to keep bringing KD up, but KD contract was up, and it was well within his right to leave. But KD walked out the door, and OKC ain't get a damn thing. Let that sink in.

[Ocho]

They did.

[Joe]

Some people say KD is a top 10. He's probably a top 15 player in NBA history.

[Public Investing Sponsor]

History.

[Joe]

Yeah. Walked out the door and. And they didn't get a thing for him. They didn't get Gatorade. They didn't get. They didn't get socks. They didn't get tape. They got nothing, Joe. They didn't get no iPad. They didn't get a projector. They didn't get jacked. You cannot let Giannis walk out the door like that, because if you do, you're ruined.

[Ocho]

And Milwaukee knows that. They know that. That's why they. They refuse. I know they refuse to let that happen to their franchise because they won't be able to recruit from that. It'll set them back, hell, five, seven, even probably longer than that.

[Joe]

What got. What got OKC was. What happened. The. The actually Kawhi. Because Kawhi going to the Clippers wanting a veteran, someone that he knew. Paul George.

[Brian Windhorst]

Pg.

[Joe]

Oh, you. You want pg? What you got? Let me see what you got. I'm gonna need Shay and I'm gonna need probably like four unprotected first round picks. And Sam Preston, we know one thing, he can pick a player. He picked kd. He picked Russ. He picked Harden. He picked the Baca. He picked Reggie Jackson. And look at what he's done. He's picked Chet. He's picked Jalen Williams. He picked Jalen Williams. Look at what he's done. He got Lou Dork.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So now what probably would have been purgatory for okc, even though they're a small market, they write it. They write back here. Yeah. And they're going to be there for the foreseeable future.

[Ocho]

They are, man. They.

[Joe]

Sometimes it's. It's one move change everything. It changed everything. And Presley done a great job, but the linchpin was getting shaped. Once he got shaped. Yeah, the foundation is strong. It's hard, the building, to be strong.

[Ocho]

And you just. You gotta hope, you know, when you make these type of changes and you bring in a guy who you think has a great upside, you gotta hope he takes the game serious and he. He meets your standards or over delivers like Shay. I mean, hell, this man finna probably be a two time mvp. You're a title. He won you a title, man. You had Westbrook and kd. Y' all made it to the finals, but y' all ain't win one. You get this kid. Yeah, yeah. Ed Harden, and you get this kid. And within what, three, four years, man, he didn't want you a title. And you're on the brink to win another one. So if you go back to back,

[Joe]

oh my God, yeah. So basically, you got, you got, you got Shay in 20. In 2019. Because. Was it 2019? Yeah, I think 2019, summer 2019.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Got it. Because Kawhi came from, Came from Toronto and that, that was the domino that started this. We didn't know that a move over here would trigger something over there. You know, sometimes you have the. A tsunami because there's an earthquake that happened in the middle of the ocean, man, look what this thing triggered. The Clippers wanting getting Kawhi triggered a series of unfortunate events. And I'm not talking about limited Snickets. Y' all catch up with that. But anyway, but that, but that's what happened, Joe. So I don't, I don't fault Milwaukee. I'm gonna try to get as much as I possibly can because the likelihood. Think about it. You had Kareem. It took you 30 plus years before you got something comparable to Kareem. You had some really good teams. Now, I, I remember the Bucks was really good team when they had Nelly. Don Nelson was their coach. They had. Who the hell Lanier. They had Sydney Moncrie, they had. Oh, Terry Cummings. Y' all do Terry Cummings. Terry Cummings.

[Ocho]

I do power forward, big body. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

For. Yeah, from DePaul. They had Brian Winners. They had some really good players.

[Ocho]

They did. They did

[Joe]

Kareem and Giannis. And so normally when you lose a player like that, it's hard to ever, ever get another one again. It's hard. And you're not like the Lakers, where people want to come Wilt retire. They get Kareem and then you get Magic, and then Magic retire, you get Shaq and Kobe and then get down and here come LeBron and now you got Luca. You see how everybody don't get it.

[Ocho]

Like, because that, you know, not only is it a big market, it's a great market in LA and everybody want to play in LA, bro. I mean, let's keep it 100. You know, playing for the Lakers, I don't know about y', all, but growing up watching the Lakers play, you know, the Late show, the Laker Girls, things of that sort. Milwaukee don't have an attraction. They don't. So it's. Yeah, they not going to get no big time free agent. You know what I mean? So you do have to go through the draft and hopefully you hit big. And okc, yeah, okc develop, well, develop your players. But when it gets to this point, to where I know Giannis is going to move on, they know they going to move on from Giannis. You have to try to get great value from. I don't know if you can get the same value, but you have to get a guy who you feel like, okay, in two years, he gonna be a superstar. You know what I mean?

[Joe]

Yeah. Well, you don't know. You. You know, it's. I'm saying Giannis, but Giannis is a different animal. But, I mean, when they traded PG and all those pigs, they, like, man, OKC got took. They gave up pg. Who was what, second in the mvp, third in the MVP mode in one year? And now they're like, boy, boy, hey, OKC really suckered on the Clippers. That's what people are saying now. It went from the Clippers sucking OKC to, okay, man, OKC got one over on them.

[Ocho]

That's because Shay over delivered.

[Joe]

Over delivered.

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