BEST OF NFL NEWS Part 1: Jerry Jones Circus + Brian Flores vs the NFL

Summary

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Club Shay Shay: BEST OF NFL NEWS Part 1

Host: Shannon Sharpe
Date: August 21, 2025
Guests/Co-Hosts: Chad Johnson (Ocho), frequent contributor

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Overview

This "Best Of" episode of Club Shay Shay highlights some of the most compelling NFL storylines, focusing on:

• The Cincinnati Bengals' management of star defensive end Trey Hendrickson,
• The continued spectacle surrounding Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys,
• Legal battles involving Brian Flores’ discrimination lawsuit against the NFL,
• John Gruden’s suit for wrongful termination,
• Player contract disputes (especially Cam Heyward’s standoff with the Steelers),
• Wide receiver rankings and joint practice brawls.

Chad Johnson and Ocho bring their signature unfiltered, passionate style as they break down the business and politics of NFL management, providing unique player perspectives and biting humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

1. Bengals Trey Hendrickson Saga

Timestamps: [02:21] – [11:29]

• Ocho and Chad Johnson express confusion and frustration at the Bengals considering trading Trey Hendrickson, their only elite defensive player, after back-to-back seasons of 17+ sacks.
• Ocho: "I don't know what we're going to do defensively, but we have to improve from last year... I just need you to be somewhere in the middle of the pack. 15, 16, be able to make stops when it matters most." [07:55]
• They compare the defensive output with Hendrickson on and off the field, highlighting the drop-off in efficiency.
• Chad Johnson: "If you couldn't stop anybody with him, who the hell you stopping without him?" [05:27]
• Discussion on the business side: why not trade Hendrickson before the draft while his value was highest?
• Banter about unrealistic hopes, such as acquiring Micah Parsons, highlighting the cap-imposed limits on team spending and joking about calling Bengals staff directly for answers.

2. The Jerry Jones Circus

Timestamps: [17:04] – [24:49]

• Quotes Jerry Jones’ infamous philosophy: "All publicity is good publicity," and pokes fun at how the Cowboys are run like a soap opera.
• Chad Johnson: "The Cowboys are a soap opera 365 days a year. When it gets slow, I'll stir it up." [17:04]
• Ocho draws a colorful analogy to American Gangster: "I don't think Jerry Jones understands the product he owns. The Cowboys will always be talked about... It's more of a circus than a football team." [17:56]
• They draw a line between success on the field and in the business, suggesting Jones only truly cares about the latter.
• Chad Johnson: "Nothing is more valuable than the Cowboys... The man is in the business of making money." [19:16]
• Strong consensus that Dallas’ on-field legacy is rooted in an era before Jones’ media theatrics; they highlight the lack of trophies relative to the hype.

3. Brian Flores vs. the NFL & Racial Discrimination Lawsuit

Timestamps: [26:49] – [36:56]

• Chad unpacks the U.S. Court of Appeals’ decision to let Brian Flores’ discrimination claims go to trial.
• Critique of the NFL’s internal appeals and disciplinary process: "If I got a speeding ticket, I shouldn't have to appeal it to the chief of police. It's his department that gave me the ticket." [27:18]
• Ocho provides a more skeptical view, arguing that even with an independent appeals body, "justice is still not going to be due, even though it's a different entity." [28:34]
• Broader, biting discussion about systemic racism in NFL hiring, referencing Kaepernick and historic civil rights activism.
• Ocho: "The system... is built for you never to win... If they allow you to be in that position of power, you better play by their rules." [33:06]
• Chad encourages persistence regardless, invoking Dr. King and Rosa Parks as examples of perseverance against the odds.

4. John Gruden's Lawsuit Against the NFL

Timestamps: [37:25], [54:24]

• Nevada Supreme Court rules in favor of former Raiders head coach John Gruden, granting discovery and a trial over the allegedly orchestrated leak of his emails.
• Chad explains: "There’s $70 million at stake. He had a 10-year, $100 million deal. They didn’t pay him because he got fired for cause." [37:31, 54:31]
• They predict the NFL will appeal to higher courts to avoid setting a dangerous precedent and ‘taking an L’.

5. Cam Heyward Contract Holdout

Timestamps: [41:49] – [49:05]

• Steelers defensive leader Cam Heyward wants a raise or will sit out, pointing to his rising performance and the exploding defensive tackle market.
• Ocho and Chad break down positional value, age, and the complexities of restructured NFL contracts.
• Ocho: "He can’t compare himself to guys making $25 million a year—he’s 36." [47:16]
• Chad: "The DT market is mid-20s. He’s like, 'Bro, I’m at 14 and a half, 15.'" [46:12]
• Possible solutions include converting salary to bonuses, but both agree it’s complicated and tough for the Steelers.

6. Top Wide Receiver Cores in the NFL

Timestamps: [50:48] – [53:52]

• Debate over Cam Ward’s claim that the Titans have a top-five receiver group.
• Chad Johnson: "Do they have a top five receiving core?" Ocho: "I wouldn’t say top five." [51:54]
• Banter as they rank actual top groups: Eagles, Bucs, Packers, Lions, Dolphins, and point out PFF ranks Titans third-worst.
• Ocho: "You have to say that [as a QB], you have to feel that way about your team ... sometimes you gotta lie to them." [52:23]

7. Joint Practice Fights: Ravens & Commanders

Timestamps: [56:12] – [63:01]

• The hosts discuss the rise of joint practice scuffles, comparing with previous NFL eras.
• Name-checking some classic on-field fights: Odell Beckham vs Josh Norman, AJ Green vs Jalen Ramsey, Andre Johnson vs Cortland Finnegan, among others.
• Ocho: "At times you get tired of going against yourself ... The funny thing about it is the joint practices, they're going to be scuffles." [56:39]
• Chad: "When you break it down, all it is is 11 individual matchups." [62:28]
• Emphasis on the competitive energy and psychology at the root of these incidents.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Chad Johnson (on Bengals’ defensive woes):
  "If you couldn't stop anybody with [Hendrickson], who the hell you stopping without him?" [05:27]

• Ocho (on Jerry Jones and the Cowboys):
  "It's more of a circus than it is a football team. And the one at the top, success on any team, it starts at the top. If the circuit starts at the top, what do you think the product is going to look like?" [18:32]

• Chad Johnson (on the NFL discipline structure):
  "You gave commission and he's everything ... he's the jury, he's the judge, he's everything. That is so, so unfair." [27:42]

• Ocho (on systemic barriers in NFL leadership):
  "If they allow you to be in that position of power, you better play by their rules. And there's an understanding that you have to do that in order to be there." [33:06]

• Ocho (on age and contract reality for Cam Heyward):
  "36! ... Everybody you just named, are they even 30 yet?" [47:16]

• Chad Johnson (on receiver rooms):
  "Look, I appreciate you pumping up your squad, but y'all not top five. I'm not even sure y'all top ten." [53:52]

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is lively, brash, and unapologetic—full of in-jokes and hands-on experience.
• Both hosts deliver pointed criticism toward NFL management, speaking on behalf of players and fans.
• Frequent references to pop culture, ongoing NFL history, and real locker room dynamics create a uniquely insider and relatable feel.
• The episode weaves humor with insightful analysis, often leaning into analogies and playful banter.

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Recap & Utility

This episode is essential for listeners who want an unflinching, ex-player look at NFL management and power structures, the reality behind media spectacles like the Cowboys, and ongoing struggles for fairness and representation in pro football. It's also packed with chalk-talk on positional value, contracts, and what really happens in joint practices—straight from players who know.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Ocho]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Chad Johnson]

It's your favorite sports funk here. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button to join the fastest growing community on YouTube. Remember, Nightcap doesn't happen without you, so please subscribe or you're gonna make Ocho cry. According to Diana Rossini, the Bengals have been actively engaged in trade discussions surrounding Trey Hendrickson for weeks. According to teams, they've reached out to Cincinnati only seeking draft capital in return. They also targeted defensive players in a potential deal last season Hendrickson ranked first in sack, first impression, sixth impression rate third in havoc plays second in tackle for losses the last two season off the field Hendricks a defense with him off the field. Ocho you 30 second impact pressure rate 30 sets, 30 second in success rate 30 second and pass rating when he's on the field your top 12 in pressure rates, top 12 in success rate, top 12 in pass rating. I don't understand this. This is what I don't understand. You knew you weren't going to play him. They knew that Ocho but what they thought he was going to do what he did last year. Oh, he'll come in. He told you he wasn't. Just like Chase said, if y' all pull that bull jive y' all did last year, I'm not coming in. He said he wasn't coming. Y' all knew y' all wouldn't see. I don't understand the O. Why would you not move him before the draft and get somebody get a draft pick?

[Ocho]

Listen, I. I have no idea. I thought maybe, I'm thinking maybe, maybe Mike Brown, Katie, Troy Duke understanding that Trey Hendrickson loves not just the team but loves the game of football and maybe he would fold at some point and come back. And obviously he's one that understands the business. And you got to hit why the fire is hot. You got to hit why the stove is hot. And this is his time. This is his time to hit based on what he's done not just last year but the previous year as well. But then you, you also look at from their viewpoint. Well, hell, you had 17 sacks last year, but our defense was horrible.

[Chad Johnson]

But you paid your quarterback and your two wide receivers.

[Ocho]

But our offense was phenomenal.

[Chad Johnson]

Let's make sure I hear this right. This is what Trey Ringo said. He said. Let's recap. The Bengals have a generational hall of Fame quarterback. They paid their two top targets. Despite all this, they missed the playoff last season because their defense was terrible. So how do they fix that? By listening to trade offers for the best defensive player, unsigned defensive end Trey Hendrickson. This is how management fails its players. Kyle Brandt said if the Bengals trade Trey Hendrickson, it will just be the second time in the modern era that a player has led the NFL's in Sac and to be traded the following season. The only other time that happened, Kansas City traded Hall of Famer Jared Allen to Minnesota in 2008. Allen was First Team All Pro three times with the Vikings.

[Ocho]

Well, I mean the reports are saying. They are listening. They're listening to trade offers. Yeah, they listen to trade offs.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, but you knew you weren't gonna pay him. He had made it abundantly clear. You got. So whatever y' all work behind things. He's like, okay, he came back. Okay, maybe if I get close there, they see me there, hey, we can engage again. They were unwilling. He's not gonna take what you're gonna offer him. 17 1/2 sacks in back to back years. There are not very many guys that's played since the sack became an official stat in 1982 has put together 17 and a half sacks in back to back seasons. He's done that. I just don't know how you think you got Ocho if you couldn't, if you couldn't stop anybody with him, who the hell you stopping without him? We saw last year Chase had the triple crown. Burrow led the league in what, passing yards and passing touchdowns. And you missed the playoffs because your defense was atrocious. And what do you do? Clearly the guy that's leap years ahead of everybody on your defense. It's not even close. And remember Ocho, you, you released Pratt, your linebacker.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he wanted to deal as well. Pratt went to the Raiders.

[Chad Johnson]

Go ahead, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah, okay. Chat me. Listen. Yeah, it's, it's, it's the business. Understand how the business works. I think the Bengals see it as. We were very bad defensively last year with you.

[Chad Johnson]

Why we just got worse.

[Ocho]

Much money. Yeah, I mean, listen, I mean you, you never know. Shamar Stewart. What will Shamar Stewart be for us this year? He's a rookie. I'm not saying we're counting on a rookie to come in, but how many.

[Chad Johnson]

Rookies have ever had 17 sacks in a season?

[Ocho]

I'm not saying, I'm not saying he gonna get 17. Huh? I'm just saying the way the business works. Paying you top dollar and you bring in a rookie that's on what, who know a minimal salary. Minimal salary and can come in and contribute. He might not get 17 sacks, but will do. Maybe not a good job. And Trey Henderson, but be efficient.

[Chad Johnson]

The most sacks ever by a rookie is Javon curse in 1999 he had 14 and a half.

[Ocho]

And I. Listen, no dishes. I'm not going to be disrespectful.

[Chad Johnson]

No, he. I don't know if he freaked. We'll. We'll have to see. But Freak was special. I played against Freak.

[Ocho]

Oh yeah. He was the real deal. He was a real deal. I'm excited though. I mean, I'm excited. I Mean, listen, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't think whatever does happen, our identity in Cincinnati, our identity is. Is our offense. And I said. I said it, and I say it again. I don't know what we're going to do defensively, but we have to improve from last year. We don't need you to be the best defense in the world. We don't need to. Need you to be the best. I just. Wait, let me. Let me. Let me finish. I just need to be somewhere in the middle of the pack. 15, 16, be able to make. Be able to make stops when it matters most. I don't need to be number one. I don't need. I don't need you to be number two. I don't need you to be three, four or five. I just need you to be. Meet us halfway. Meet the offense halfway. 15, 16, 17, somewhere around there, we gonna be all right.

[Chad Johnson]

If you had a Pats or Tan, if you had a Stingley, if you had a Sauce Gardner, you had a Ramsey, if you had one of those top guys, I could say, okay, Ocho, you can hold up a little longer, get a guy. But y' all don't have that. Y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Chad Johnson]

Best defensive player, hands down, and it wasn't even close, is Trey Hendrickson. Ocho, you guys scored 38 and lose 41. 38. Ocho, you guys go 35 and lose 38. 35. Because you couldn't get off the field.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

With that being said, I don't know how you going to improve. I don't know if you've made that big of an improvement defensively. Even with Stewart. He will have to be. Curse Micah, Aaron, Donald, lt. Yeah, you don't have to have those kind of seasons, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't know you. Listen, you've been around again. You've been around the game for a long time. We've seen situations like this happen, occur on many other teams. They don't feel he's worth the price tag that he's asking for. They've already paid t. They've already played Chase, they played Joe. I mean. I mean, this is just. He's the odd man out. Yeah, he's the odd man out. And now they're listening to trade offers and.

[Chad Johnson]

But, you know, but unless you. Well, maybe if you trade him. Well, you can't trade it for Micah because you can't pay Micah. I'm trying to say who you go trade who can you trade him for? Because if you trade him just for a draft pick, you don't get nothing to help you this year. And you need help this year. Go ahead.

[Ocho]

Time out. Rewind that. Rewind them right back now. You just got me excited. You just got me excited. I don't know. How much money is left over?

[Chad Johnson]

None.

[Ocho]

I don't know any. They can manipulate the cat and make it happen. Is there any way, any scenario that we can get Michael Parsons?

[Chad Johnson]

You could have three guys making over 40 million on your roster.

[Ocho]

Hey, I like. I like the way that sound.

[Chad Johnson]

You wouldn't play Trey Henderson. You won't even pay Trey Henderson 30 million. But. But you gonna give Michael Parsons 43, 44 million.

[Ocho]

Can I ask you a question? How old is Trey Hendrickson? Ask Ash. How old is Trey?

[Chad Johnson]

32. 30.

[Ocho]

How old is Michael Parsons?

[Chad Johnson]

25. He came out early, so he might be 26. 26 now.

[Ocho]

Ask me that question again. Would they pay him 43?

[Chad Johnson]

No, they wouldn't.

[Ocho]

They wouldn't. They would. Yeah. You want I can ask right now? I can. I can call. I can call personnel right now.

[Chad Johnson]

They're not. They're. First of all, they're not paying a 55 million dollar quarterback, a 43. 45 million dollar defensive player, a 41 million dollar wide receiver, and a 30 million dollar wide receiver. They're not having that. They're not paying that.

[Ocho]

Hold on.

[Chad Johnson]

They just. Ocho, y' all just started spending money two years ago with Burrow. Think about all the great players that you guys have had that have left.

[Ocho]

Right? I'm gonna call somebody upstairs. I mean, it's hypothetical. I wanna. I'm gonna see. Damn. I like that. That's. That's crazy.

[Chad Johnson]

B.J. hill, Chris Jenkins. I don't know, Ocho. Y' all might be with. Y' all might be in the same situation again.

[Ocho]

Nah, I don't think so. Hey, I have a question. Would it be rude if I call Zach and ask that? That's rude, huh?

[Chad Johnson]

You ask whatever you want to ask him.

[Ocho]

That's not. That's not offensive, right? It's just. Just a regular question.

[Chad Johnson]

Regular question for what, dad?

[Ocho]

Zach Taylor. If I. If I. If I. If I. If I call and ask, is that rude?

[Chad Johnson]

You can ask him whatever you want to, Ocho. We'll sit right here and watch. Wait, I don't know if the chat believe you calling him, but. Oh, sure. We. We'll hold on.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I'm texting. Look, can you see that? No, I said. I said Coach. Are you up? I want to make sure you up. I don't want to call. It's 12 o'. Clock. They play tomorrow, so I. I don't know. It's 12:19. They playing in D.C. what, what's, what's, what's the time difference in D.C.

[Chad Johnson]

Dallas is on Central Time. D.C. is on Eastern Time.

[Ocho]

So. Oh, it's 12:19. I call E.B. you know EB, right? No. Eric Ball. No, no, but Eric Ball played with the Bengals when you was playing with, with, with David, I think. Yeah, but David Fulcher.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah. DB.

[Ocho]

No, no, wait, are we running back? I think. I think Eric Ball might have been a running back. I think you probably know. You probably know him when you see him even. He's been over there since, since I was there before I got there. Yeah. Eric Barr. Yeah. Yeah. Part of player. I forgot. I don't know how to pronounce the.

[Chad Johnson]

The. What are you community. Like community relations guys?

[Ocho]

Yeah, I think his.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, here in the player personnel department.

[Ocho]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Player engagement.

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[Ocho]

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[Ocho]

Lenovo.

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[Ocho]

Yeah, probably something like that. Something like that.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, Joe. Jerry Jones continues to believe all the puff. All publicity is good publicity. Jerry said, I do believe that. If we're not being looked at, then I'll do my part to get us looked at. The beautiful thing for networks or if you were streaming companies is that the NFL is a 365 day a year interest factory. A lot of programming. You have to spend as much to promote as you, as you do to make it. The Cowboys are soap opera 365 days a year. When it gets slow, I'll stir it up. Ocho. Jerry said he be, he be, he be stirring the pot.

[Ocho]

Listen, man, everybody in the chat, I use, I use this, this moniker, I use this phrase, I use this analogy. Last night, I don't think Jerry Jones understands the product that he owns and controls. Frank Lucas in American Gangster, he had blue Magic on.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

It was the best product out there in the business in the world. You didn't have to do anything to it because it's soul itself. Jerry, why are you cutting it up? You don't need to cut it up in any smaller pieces for it to do what it's going to do without you in the picture. It's going to sell itself. No matter what. The Cowboys will always be talked about whether you come out and say something or not. Because it's the Cowboys. I don't, I don't know. I don't listen, I don't. He's not in the business of winning. He continues to show us that time and time again.

[Chad Johnson]

In the business of making money.

[Ocho]

Every. He's in the business of. You said he's in the business of making money. He is great at that. And, and that's just what it is. I feel sorry for the fans, you know, I feel sorry for the players that are. That. That have to deal with that, you know, you want to play for the Cowboys, you want to play for America's team. Got a star on the helmet, but it's more of a circus than it is a football team. And the one at the top, success on any team, it starts at the top. Yeah, it just trickles on down. But if the circuit starts at the top, what do you think the product is going to look like? Come on, man. It don't got to be Sunday for me to preach. Come on, man.

[Chad Johnson]

You know, that's. Man, you know. Hey, look, Jerry.

[Ocho]

But come on, now.

[Chad Johnson]

The Cowboys. I think I just read today the Cowboys are worth 12.8 billion. The most expensive franchise, not just North America, of all sports franchises. Basketball, football, baseball, these. These soccer teams, Euro, all that. Nothing.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

If it's a sports club sports franchise, nothing is more valuable than the Cowboys.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Nothing.

[Ocho]

Hey, the man is in the business of making money. You hear me?

[Chad Johnson]

That's it.

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, I don't.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't have a problem with that. We don't try to disguise and talk about. You care about winning because you don't. No, you care about selling tickets. You care about keeping interest in your team, not about winning.

[Ocho]

Right. Actions speak louder than words. Yeah. His actions show otherwise. And based on his actions, it lets us know. I'm in the business of lining my pockets and staying the most profitable sports franchise in the world. That's it. And then if he's okay with that, then so be it. But he does set a precedent. Yeah, he sets a precedent to the coaches. He sets a precedent to the players in the way he conducts himself when it comes to business. But it is what it is. The cab. It's America scene.

[Chad Johnson]

I heard Emmett at this docu series.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

The other night when he was at Netflix, and he was talking about. At some point in time, it comes down to the players, because that's what we did, Emmett. So who are. Who? I want to know. The Emmett Smith, the Michael Irving. Michael Irvin was the leader of the team.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Chad Johnson]

And then you had Haley. And you look at the guys that you had. You had Jimmy. You had Jimmy, and then y' all got Dion. If you don't get Dion, y' all not gonna be. If he stays in San Francisco, guess who winning San Francisco. He's flipped the balance of power. Yeah, y' all don't have a level of players. I'm sorry. You don't you. Don't you? Look at you look at the defense that they had back then.

[Ocho]

Boy, were loaded, right? They were loaded, boy, but loaded.

[Chad Johnson]

Look at that offensive line. They had Big Easy, they had Larry Allen, they had Nate Newton. I think they still had Step. I think tu. And they were still there. Man, stop. That offensive line y' all got. Troy was probably one of the most accurate quarterbacks, especially for that time.

[Ocho]

Right? Different. Different.

[Chad Johnson]

But you gotta realize Jimmy wasn't doing all this talking back then either, though, Emmett. Jimmy. Jimmy wasn't having that. That's why he got Jimmy up out of there. Yeah, he was doing all this talking. I don't know about you, Ocho, but I was in the league. I was in the league. And I know it was no 24 hour news cycle, but in press conference, they didn't have no mic. They had no mics in front of Jimmy. I mean, in front of Jerry. The mics were in front of Jimmy, and it drove Jerry crazy.

[Ocho]

Damn. That's crazy.

[Chad Johnson]

But I agree with you. The Cowboys brand is so strong.

[Ocho]

You ain't got to say nothing.

[Chad Johnson]

Nothing.

[Ocho]

We gonna talk about it regardless.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Outlets, analysts, puns, podcasts, people on the street, in the barber shop.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't remember. I don't. I don't remember you. Hey, you ever hear Mr. Kraft talk prior to the Super Bowl? I hear him talk at the AFC Championship game when they get the trophy. Or that too. That. That. That. When he getting the trophy. So he normally getting trophies when he talking.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Jerry talking to hear himself talk. Talk like, man, forgot what my voice heard. Like, I ain't been on no. I ain't been on no platform and got no trophy in a long time. So you heard what.

[Ocho]

You heard what Denzel Washington said.

[Chad Johnson]

With that opinionaires?

[Ocho]

Yeah, he. No, I'm talking about the other. You know, he's.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, he's talking about Jerry. Jerry. Oh, he said, jared, by making money.

[Ocho]

That's it. That's it.

[Chad Johnson]

I believe. I believe you can do two things that I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive. I believe you can make money and still win.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Yeah, you can.

[Chad Johnson]

The Patriots did it for 20 years. The Chiefs have done it for about a decade now.

[Ocho]

Right. But then, you know his retort to what. What you just said would be, well, they made money, they won Super Bowls, but I'm still the most profitable franchise. Yeah, but I much rather be number one in that area if I can't be number one on the field.

[Chad Johnson]

Well, the Cowboys. The Cowboys America's team when they didn't have Jerry Jones. So what is he talking about? Hey, he didn't name him America's team. They didn't. They had the stadium with the, with the, with the, the. The hole in the top so God could watch his team.

[Ocho]

Mm.

[Chad Johnson]

He didn't do none of that.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Chad Johnson]

So this notion that he created this. He didn't. All the teams have exponentially increased. I mean, you could. For what, one year's salary of what a quarterback make, you could used to be able to buy a franchise. Go back and look at somebody's franchise, what they paid for.

[Ocho]

Right?

[Chad Johnson]

Now, that was, I mean, that was a boatload of money back then in the early 70s. And, you know, that was a. That was a boatload of money. But I'm just saying. And today, you know, they've 10x15, 20x their money.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

So Jerry probably even 50x his money. But with that being said, I don't believe that you have to do all that. Jerry wasn't like this, Al. Like I said, Al Davis was his mentor. That's who taught him. He's Al Davis. Al Davis has always been a maverick. Always did things his way. And, you know, he's like, I'm moving. I'm going to la. No, you gotta get vote. I ain't gotta get nothing. It's my team. I bought it. I'm moving. And he sued the league to move. And he sued. I'm going back to Oakland. No, you're not. You got. No, I'm going by. I'm suing. And that's how Jerry is. Jerry's like, nah, I'm not gonna be a part. I'm gonna be a part of the collective bargaining when it comes to. I mean, excuse me. I'm gonna be a part of the revenue sharing when it comes to tv. After that, I'm on my own, right? I'm gonna do my own independent deals. He has a deal with Pepsi. He has, he has his own deals. He has his own merchandising deal. He's like, no, I'll do that revenue share when it comes to tv, right? But other than that, because I can do a better job than. You got no problem with that. But it's unfortunate at the end of the day, bro. Right now we do it is talking. Yeah, you ain't, you ain't collecting no trophies. The second U. S. Court of appeals in Manhattan ruled that the NFL can be put on trial over civil claims that. That Brian Flores and other black coaches face discrimination. February of 2022, Flores sued the NFL and several teams, saying the league was rife with racism, particularly in its hiring and promotion of black coaches. Other coaches later joined the lawsuit as plaintiffs. Ocho, I don't know how close you follow this, but I've always felt the way the NFL did business with this discipline was unfair. And guys, if you've heard me from cbs, I was on their decade. I was with Fox for seven years. And you've. And I like to use this analogy, Ocho, if I got a speeding ticket, I shouldn't have to go appeal it to the chief of police because it was his department that gave me the ticket.

[Ocho]

Come on, now.

[Chad Johnson]

I've always thought it was unfair. The NFL hands down this punishment, and if I want to go appeal it, guess who I'll appeal it to?

[Ocho]

Right?

[Chad Johnson]

The commissioner.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Chad Johnson]

Or someone he appointed. How is that fair? It should be an independent body. That's why they have a court system. That's why they have the poll. They're two separate but equal entities.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Chad Johnson]

So I've always felt this was a very, very unfair practice. They've always been able to hide behind Article 46.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Chad Johnson]

But you gave commission and he's. He's everything. He's everything. He's the jury, he's the judge. He's everything. That is so, so unfair. Yes, sir. Even if you have these broad latitudes of power, I've always felt the commissioner should get out of the punishment business. Let someone else handle that. Let it be an independent body. The NFL and the NFLPA should have an independent body because you're never. Everybody feel they're going to get. They're going to get an unfair hearing, right? If the. I'm appealing to the head of the entity that handed down the punishment.

[Ocho]

But this is, this is the thing. Let's. Let's understand the ecosystem and the power and the powers that be when it comes to the NFL. Let's say if it does go to an independent body, do you understand? Even with it being an independent, independent party, independent body, a separate entity away from the NFL, do you know who still controls the power? Do you know how they're going to be swayed still where justice is still not going to be due, even though it's a different entity. Do you understand that? Understanding the power structure that you're going up against, the chances of winning are slim to none, whether it comes from the commissioner himself or whether it's a different governing body.

[Chad Johnson]

I do believe I have a better. Let me ask you a question. If I get a speeding ticket, do you think I got a better chance of going to the court or going to the chief of police and having him hear that? Because think about what happens when police officers do something wrong. It's few and far between that their own department, IA internal affairs, or the governing body that represents the police, the union, discipline them.

[Ocho]

Yes, you're right. You're right.

[Chad Johnson]

There's a greater chance that the court. And now, you know, look, the court system has said, you know, hey, whoo. That imminent.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey.

[Chad Johnson]

Any threat, be it real or perceived. Let that sink in, Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Real or perceived.

[Ocho]

Yes. You have to understand. And you know, well, for those that don't understand, maybe on the outside looking in, even with this ruling now being able to be. Or go to court.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, they're gonna. They're gonna appeal it.

[Ocho]

Now, even if they appeal it, you understand the animal in the power structure, of course, that you're going up against the machine. I have a question. Huh?

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

In the history. In the history of law in general, how many times have the people, even those have been discriminated against, even those who serve right and deserve justice? How many times the machine lost, huh?

[Chad Johnson]

It doesn't happen often, but you can't get deterred, right? Just imagine if Dr. King would have gotten disturbed, deterred. Or all those people that marched in the 50s and the 60s had gotten deterred. Rosa Parks, if she had said, you know what? Ain't nothing going to change. So let me just go ahead and give my seat up.

[Ocho]

You know what? I'm glad. I'm glad you just said that. Right. I'm glad you just said that. So everything we've been through in the 50s, right, the 60s, all those that sacrifice. Yes. We had one that sacrificed even recently. Brother Kaepernick.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes, yes.

[Ocho]

Standing for something.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

I have a question for you.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Has anything changed since then in the NFL? No, no, not. Not. Not the NFL in general. Just with everyone you just named with 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, y. Has anything changed yet?

[Chad Johnson]

It doesn't seem like it, Ocho. It seems like if we take a step forward, we take a couple of steps back.

[Ocho]

Okay.

[Chad Johnson]

But if you.

[Ocho]

Yeah, talk to me.

[Chad Johnson]

Think about your grandparents.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Chad Johnson]

Then your parents was in that same situation, and you said, ain't nothing changed, so I might as well just stay in the same Liberty City, do what they did and not try my damnedest to improve the situation. Now, where would we be?

[Ocho]

We. We try our damage to improve the situations. Right.

[Chad Johnson]

That's all you could do Talk to.

[Ocho]

Wait, let me. Stay with me real quick. Now, there was a time in the 50s, in the 60s, where they were able to wear their hoods. Huh?

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Daylight. In broad daylight. Yes, because it was accepted. So now they've gone away from that part. So the hoods are gone?

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Now they wear robes. Now they hold gavels. Now they have. They have suits and ties on. Now they're in positions of power to where, okay, it seems like things have changed, or things may be different, but it really hasn't because now they're just in positions of power and controlling everything.

[Chad Johnson]

And that's what they do.

[Ocho]

And that. That's. That's the way the system is. To me, it's all about understanding the system and being able to fight it, being able to fight it and understanding that I'm going to do all I can to try and improve the situations around me. It makes some type of impact. But the way the ecosystem is built, in general, the way it's structured is built for you never to win.

[Chad Johnson]

But you have to win.

[Ocho]

They would never allow us to ever get in position to be able to make that change. And the ones who do that look like us that happen to get them and wear the suit and ties to you got to play by their rules.

[Chad Johnson]

But see what you did, you see what you said? But when we get a chance to get in that position, do we do. Do we lift someone up or do we kick the ladder and says, I'm up on the top of the roof now, so I'm good. I'm up here. I don't want nobody. I don't want nobody to look like you to join me up here.

[Ocho]

Say me one more time, though. Listen to what I said.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

When they do allow you and put you in positions of power, you have to play their game by their rules. That's why they even let you get in that position to begin with sometimes.

[Chad Johnson]

That's correct. But you have to look at it, Ocho. Think about a system that's been in place for as long as it has. You think you're going to dismantle a system that's been in place for 400 years? In 30 years? You're not.

[Ocho]

I know. I know one thing. That system that's been in place for however long it's been in, if they allow you to be in that position of power, you better play by their rules. And there's an understanding that you have to do that in order to be there. But I mean that this is. This is a great topic. You Know, I'm not one to really talk about politics and stuff like that, but I can go. I can go now.

[Chad Johnson]

But I love. I love the fact this is. Nah. Because they said. Because if you go back and look at the ruling, he said the judge, like, ain't no chance that this is fair.

[Ocho]

Under no circumstance at all.

[Chad Johnson]

Even if he were to appoint someone.

[Ocho]

Mm.

[Chad Johnson]

It's still him. So you, like, an arbitrator that he appointed is gonna rule against the man that appointed him.

[Ocho]

Right. You right.

[Chad Johnson]

Make it make sense now.

[Ocho]

Yeah, you right again.

[Chad Johnson]

We go back. I got the speeding ticket, and I'm going to the. I go to the chief of police.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Chad Johnson]

Okay. Well, guess what? The chief's not gonna hear it. We're gonna give it to. Hey, the corporal, he'll hear it. He still. No, no, no, no, no. It needs to be a separate body. That's why the police, they do what they do. And then, guess what? Your job is done. We go into court.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

And now we have a whole different body with 12 men and women. That's going to determine it, right?

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Because if it was left up to the police, they would have a hundred percent. Yeah, 100%.

[Ocho]

Absolutely. Absolutely. But just I'm in this case. What happened with Brother, Brother Flores and other coaches that look like us minorities, for that matter. I love that they standing on business in general, and they're going to get in court. But I also do understand the other dynamic of it and understanding who you're fighting against.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah. Oh, they got a lot of money. They can throw a lot of.

[Ocho]

Look, the funny thing about it is the. The. The thing about it is not even about the money. It's about. It's the power in which they can sway any ruling to make sure they're not at fault. Because that fight that they're fighting about, it's still going on today with opportunities not being given to certain individuals that look a certain way. Nothing has changed. Also, when it comes to the quarterback position, that's still prevalent in today's game as well.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

But the thing is, I don't want to dive deep and go into it and go in depth, but there's so many different layers I can peel back. Right. That I choose not to do. But listen, only a blind man. Only a blind man would not understand what I'm talking about.

[Chad Johnson]

No. Only a man that choose not to understand what you're talking about.

[Ocho]

Those that can't see and don't know and gonna. And they're gonna play maybe naive advocate. Yeah. And dumb to the situation when the facts are clear as day. That you can see. Come on now, let's not do that.

[Chad Johnson]

But hey, the man gets to have his day in court and we'll see what happens and then, you know, you go from there. But, but I can assure you they're going to appeal this. The Nevada Supreme Court has ruled in favor of former head Raiders head coach John Gruden in his appeal against the NFL. Gruden will get discovery and a day in court alleging that commissioner Roger Goodell and the NFL improperly leaked his email leading to his firing.

[Ocho]

Yeah, and hey, that's. Hey, now that, that's another one that's going to be interesting. That's another one that's going to be interesting.

[Chad Johnson]

Well, you can't, you can't appeal. Now they might appeal this to the Supreme Court, right? They might supreme because the Nevada Supreme Court said. Nah, no, no, no, he gets discord. He gets this because Ocho, you gotta realize there's $70 million at stake. He had a 10 year, 100 million dollar deal. They fired him.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Well, that's guaranteed though.

[Chad Johnson]

You know, when coaching, they didn't pay him because they. Cause he got fired for cause.

[Ocho]

So they're probable cause and getting fired and that, that's like a player getting in trouble. Conduct detrimental to the team. We can take that money back. Okay, I didn't know that part. Yes, I didn't know that part. Okay. Okay.

[Chad Johnson]

So would I be surprised if, if, if the. They went all the way to the Supreme Court?

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Chad Johnson]

Absolutely would not. The NFL doesn't like to take. Ls right. Because remember, you take one, you then everybody else feel like we got invulnerable, we got him weak. We can, we can jump on the will. Hey, all it take. Look how big the giraffe feels. All it take is for one lion.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

To weigh him down. And then here come the rest.

[Ocho]

Everybody else.

[Chad Johnson]

That's how they get the. Unless they catch it napping every once in a while they'll catch him. That catch one napping. He don't let it to get too late today. And he still rested and they catch him, but for the most part. One of those big males, a jump on his back.

[Ocho]

Yeah. It's a wrap.

[Chad Johnson]

That's £400. And he's like, hey, he can't support that. And here he comes.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

But look, the NFL, they've made it very abundantly clear in the, the appellate court against Brian Flores. They're going to appeal. I can see them appealing this all the way to the Supreme Court.

[Ocho]

He's still the defensive coordinator in Minnesota, okay?

[Chad Johnson]

He absolutely is.

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[Ocho]

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[Chad Johnson]

Uh oh. Ojo Cam Hayward is open to sitting out regular season games in search of a raise. Cam Hayward, who's the 22nd highest paid DT said he's looking to be valued. It's hard for me after the year I had to really justify playing at that number I'm playing at. Hayward said the team asked him to take a pay cut last summer. They ironed out a rework deal instead. That runs through 2026. Hayward responded by bouncing back from an injury marred 2023 season to finish with eight sacks, 71 tackles, 11 pass defense as the Steelers went 10 and seven and reached the playoffs for the fourth time in five years.

[Ocho]

Right. Hey listen, Cam Haber said I can't play at 15 million. Now those that are on the outside watching, fans, NFL fans, oh the first thing gonna say oh my goodness, you can't play on $15 million. They, they don't see it from that perspective actually being an athlete, being an all pro player and being a D tackle that I'm not sure when it comes to Z tackles where he's ranked when the cup tackles in in the NFL right now as far as where he should be slated at. Dexter Lawrence, one of the betters. The Ed Olivers, one of the betters.

[Chad Johnson]

He's different because he's a 5 technique because they're 34 defense. So he's not, he's not like in your typical like a Warren SAP. He's not like what like Aaron Donald. What Aaron Donald was in the 43. He's a 3 4. He's more of a J.J. watt. He's a 5 technique.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Chad Johnson]

And so I don't want to. I'm gonna try to keep it simple but if you notice they got two line, they got a nose tackle, they got two ends and they got two linebackers. So they got four linebackers, Sam and a wheel, a mic and a plug and they got three down linemen. He's what we call a five technique. He's a defensive end but he played a five technique. Not the three technique or what we call the under tackle that Joe Green made famous and the Warren Sapps, the Johnny Randalls and those, the Aaron Donald, those type of guys, he's a 5 tech. And so with that being said but the Steelers say hold on bro, we just redid your contract last year.

[Ocho]

Last year. Yeah, but they asked him to take a pay cut. They asked him to take a pay cut. I'm assuming because of his injury and his play might have been down. So is it warranted that he gets a raise after making all sign a one year deal?

[Chad Johnson]

I agree with you Ojo. Look, I'm just from a Steelers perspective okay, you come in there, you're like, oh, hey, bro, I wanna. Hey, man, I need such and such. Well, you know, Ocho, you didn't have the best year now. Okay, so what you thinking? Well, how about this? We're gonna tell you. We gonna do this. We're gonna give you. We'll give you 29. We'll give you 29 million for the next two years. Okay, well, that's the risk that you run because what, what he didn't expect was for the defensive market to explode like it has. So now what looked like a really good deal is like chicken feed to him. So now you get Miles Garrett, you got his teammate making 41 million, Miles Garrett making 40. You got Nick Bosa, you got Max Crosby, you got Danelle Hunter, you got Michael Parsons, you got all these guys. And he's like, hold on.

[Ocho]

Yeah, you can't. He can't compare. He can't compare himself because he played. He has to compare himself to the D tackles that play. The five technique or other D tackles.

[Chad Johnson]

Christian Wilkins was making 25, 24 million. Look at Dexter Lawrence. Give me the. Give me the. The top five highest paid tackles.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm curious. I'm curious because I'm not Jeff. Jeffrey Simmons got to be up there too, over there in Tennessee.

[Chad Johnson]

Simmons, Lawrence, Christian Wilkins was making 24 and a half million.

[Ocho]

Did he get picked up?

[Chad Johnson]

No.

[Ocho]

Okay. I'm trying. I'm trying to think who else. D tackles. D tackles. Oh, Vita Veta gotta be top five paid as well. But him being at 22, that. That's, that's. That's tough.

[Chad Johnson]

As she's saying it to me. Yeah, I agree to Ocho. Is that, you know, you looking at guy. I mean, at defensive players. You got like, okay, D tackles. Okay, where's the D tackles market? The D tackle market is in. In the mid-20s. He's like, Bro, I'm at 14 and a half. 15.

[Ocho]

So what would make it happen? What would make him happy, you think? Maybe 18.

[Chad Johnson]

Okay. Chris Jones is the highest paid at 31. 750 from the Ravens, 24 and a half. Alan McNeil from Detroit, 24. 250. Derrick Brown, Carolina. 24. Quinny Williams, 24. Simons, Jeffrey Simmons. I don't know why I call him. Keep coming. Simmons Simmons is 23. 5. DeForest Buckner, Colts 23. Duron Payne, Washington, 22. 5. Dexter Lawrence, 21. 87 5. Kenny Clark, 21.

[Ocho]

I got, I got something for you right here. I'm telling you how the Rooney's thinking? I'm gonna tell you what Tomlin's thinking. How old is Cam Hayward?

[Chad Johnson]

Cam. Cam came in 2011, so he at least 36 at the bare minimum.

[Ocho]

They not doing it. They're not doing it.

[Chad Johnson]

I did.

[Ocho]

Everybody. Everybody you just named, are they even 30 yet?

[Chad Johnson]

Jones is.

[Ocho]

Jones is the best. Jones is the. Chris Jones is the best. Best D tackle in the NFL.

[Chad Johnson]

You know, Chris Jones just turned 18, 31. But I don't think Matabiquay. I don't think McNeil. Quinny. I don't think Quinny is. Is. Is Quinny 30? He might be.

[Ocho]

36. Come on now.

[Chad Johnson]

Quinnie Williams, 27. Damn.

[Ocho]

Listen, Quinn, you remember Quinn Williams when he. On draft night when he sneezed and he said he blessed himself. Hey, but 36. I mean, listen.

[Chad Johnson]

And I see Ocho, it's going to be hard for them to put him in that situation because he's like, okay, 15. Can you give me the 20?

[Ocho]

Okay, what 20? Oh, that. Oh, maybe. You know what we can do? We can give you something to sign a bonus. We'll take some of the money on the back end and bring it on the front end and put it into a signing bonus so it doesn't affect.

[Chad Johnson]

But guess what, that does that take? That takes money off next year's cap. That takes money off next year's base salary. And now that. That 15 is 10.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, I'm just trying to find a way. I know it's going to be very difficult, but knowing him, and him saying he going to stand his ground and not play, that's going to be tough because now you're going into a season where you're trying to compete in the division. You have Aaron Rodgers and the defense is stacked with all the people that you just added your identity. Now, I'm not calling you the goddamn Steel Curtain, but with the team, with the players you have on paper, you should be very good and be able to compete week in and week out, especially in AFC north and against other teams that you do play.

[Chad Johnson]

I agree.

[Ocho]

And you are a intricate part of that defense. What matters most.

[Chad Johnson]

You wanted the captains of the defense.

[Ocho]

Damn, man, that's. That's, that's tough. That's tough for the Steelers.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, yo, remember the other night we talked about Dalvin Cook and I say his value is somewhere between 11 and 13.

[Ocho]

Hey, I said. I said. I said 13. 5. So where do you call that? What?

[Chad Johnson]

James cook.

[Ocho]

James Cook. 12.

[Chad Johnson]

12. 4 years, 48. Okay, I said the max. They'd probably be is 4 years, 52. But I can see, you know, 11, 11 to 13, he's gonna fall to somewhere. 11, 13. I say he not. He's not, he not, he's not that 15. He ain't breaking up earlier, right?

[Ocho]

You got. He, listen, he got 30. He gonna be all right. Don't see that every dollar, so you're gonna be all right.

[Chad Johnson]

But hey, he's like, nah, y' all not gonna get me. Y' all finna give me some. I ain't gonna play on this contract. Campbell. Cam Ward believes he has a top five receiver core in the NFL right now. Oh, do you believe that the Titans have a top five receiving core?

[Ocho]

Top five Eagles. Let's, let's go through Eagles, Bucks, bucks.

[Chad Johnson]

Lions.

[Ocho]

Throwing the packers in there. Lions, Packers.

[Chad Johnson]

Vikes, I said already.

[Ocho]

Now when Terry McLaurin comes back, him and Debo, even though they haven't played together, we know what they can do. They've shown enough over the years.

[Chad Johnson]

What about the Rams? I mean, with Puka, Nakua and Devonte.

[Ocho]

Oh, my goodness, the Rams. Devonte, Adams, obviously, we know what the, what about Dolphins? But listen. Oh, Tyreek and Waddle.

[Chad Johnson]

What about the Bears? Burton.

[Ocho]

Burton, you know, he, he, he had. Oh, hold on. We know what Tyler Locker could do. We know what Calvin, Calvin Ridley is that.

[Chad Johnson]

Boy, does they. Do they have a top five receiving core?

[Ocho]

I wouldn't say top five.

[Chad Johnson]

That's all we want to hear.

[Ocho]

Yeah, hey, they have a, they have a very, very good receiver in Calvin. Really though.

[Chad Johnson]

Pff. Has them at the third worst receiving core. For real? Well, listen, look, Browns, based on Browns are the worst. Then the Patriots, and then they got the Titans.

[Ocho]

I, I, I, I, I see. I, oh, that's tough, boy.

[Chad Johnson]

I just know they weren't top five.

[Ocho]

I like, yeah, you got, you got to believe they not top five. But you have to say that you're the quarterback.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Ocho]

You have to, you have to feel.

[Chad Johnson]

That way about sometimes you gotta lie to him. Oo. Gotta lie to him.

[Ocho]

Hey, whoa. How do we a even mention CD Lamb and George Pickens? Okay.

[Chad Johnson]

Man, we didn't, but you did. So there you go.

[Ocho]

Gotta, you gotta feel that way, though.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah, for sure. If you don't believe that about your team, who will?

[Ocho]

Right? Hey, who's the number three over there in Tennessee now, Now you got me thinking.

[Chad Johnson]

I don't know.

[Ocho]

Tyler, Lockett. Calvin? Really? Who's the number three? Chad, who's the number three? Somebody tell me. Who's the Number three. In.

[Chad Johnson]

Number three, the number third, wide receiver, Van Jefferson.

[Ocho]

Okay, okay. Van Sala. You. Van was with, with the ranch?

[Chad Johnson]

Yes, he was. Pittsburgh. Where was he last year?

[Ocho]

Yeah, I said since he first. I said since he.

[Chad Johnson]

I thought so. He's with Pittsburgh last year. Oo, yeah, Cam. Yeah. Look, I appreciate you pumping up your squad, but y' all not top five. I'm not even sure y' all top ten. When we, when we really get down to and we start naming, naming receiving cards. Oo, I'm not sure they top 10.

[Ocho]

Hey, I know one thing. Calvin really is that boy.

[Chad Johnson]

But it's more to make a receiver. Course more than one Nevada Supreme Court has ruled in favor of former head Raiders head coach John Gruden in his appeal against the NFL. Gruden will get discovery and a day in court alleging that commissioner Roger Goodell and the NFL improperly leaked his email leading to his firing.

[Ocho]

Yeah, and hey, that's. Hey, now that, that's another one that's going to be interesting. That's another one that's going to be interesting.

[Chad Johnson]

Well, you can't, you can't appeal. Now they might appeal this to the Supreme Court, right? They might Supreme. Because the Nevada Supreme Court said, nah, no, no, no. He gets the score. He gets this. Because Ocho, you got to realize it's $70 million at stake. He had a 10 year, 100 million dollar deal. They fired him.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's guaranteed though. You know, when coaching, when coaching, they.

[Chad Johnson]

Didn'T pay him because they. Cause he got fired for cars.

[Ocho]

So they're probable cause. And getting fired and that, that's like a player getting in trouble, conduct detrimental to the team. We can take that money back. Okay, I didn't know that part. Yes, I didn't know that part. Okay. Okay.

[Chad Johnson]

So would I be surprised if, if, if the, they went all the way to the Supreme Court?

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Chad Johnson]

Absolutely would not. The NFL doesn't like to take. Ls right. Because remember, you take one, you then everybody else feel like, hey, we got him vulnerable, we got him weak. We can jump on the will. Hey, all it takes. Look how big the giraffe feels. All it take is for one lion to weigh him down and then here come the rest.

[Ocho]

Everybody else.

[Chad Johnson]

That's how they get the. Unless they catch it napping. Every once in a while they'll catch him nap. Catch one napping, you don't let it to get too late today.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

And he still rested and they catch him. But for the most part, one of those big males.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

On his back.

[Ocho]

Yeah. It's a rap.

[Chad Johnson]

That's £400.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

And he's like, hey, he can't support that. And here he comes.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

But look, the NFL, they've made it barely, abundantly clear in the. The appellate court against Brian Flores. They're going to appeal. I can see them appealing this all the way to the Supreme Court.

[Ocho]

He's still the defensive coordinator in Minnesota. Minnesota. Okay.

[Chad Johnson]

He absolutely is.

[Ocho]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

After another joint practice fight between the Ravens and the Commanders, the Ravens issued this statement. Recognizing the logistical challenges with our team's previous game schedule on different days and the added strain on players heading into a short week, the Ravens and Commanders are mutually agreed to no longer hold joint practices next week. Instead, we'll concentrate on preparing for the upcoming preseason matchup. Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Damn.

[Ocho]

Yeah. I like it. I like it. I mean, it's cool, but at times you get tired of going against yourself. At times you get tired of going against yourself. The funny thing about it is the joint practices, they're going to be scuffles. There have been scuffles in every joint practice every season back to date when I was playing. I'm sure there were scuffles. Oh, you said you guys didn't have joint practices, but.

[Chad Johnson]

No, we did. We did.

[Ocho]

Oh, you did. Oh, but hell, if it wasn't a joint practice, hell, you'd be scuffing against each other. Get it all out your system now. One thing we haven't seen in a very long time, except a few instances, is us as players actually fighting in a game.

[Chad Johnson]

No. Hell, no. That cost you money.

[Ocho]

Very few instances. They don't play. I remember one time. I can only count three. I can't remember the receiver's name. Chad, you could probably help me out. The receiver who got upset at C.J. c.J. Gardner. Johnson. That play.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

And punched him in the face.

[Ocho]

Yes. Yes. And like, when the play was over, not the receiver. And then I remember Odell and Josh Norman.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

Now that that was. And the most prevalent and consistent of battles was Mike Evans and Marshawn Lattimore. I think Steve. Steve Smith got into it with a few people back and forth, but nothing that really came to blows like the ones I just mentioned.

[Chad Johnson]

Right. And I. I cannot forget AJ Green and. And Jalen Ramsey.

[Ocho]

Yep. And Andre Johnson.

[Chad Johnson]

Yeah. And Courtland. Courtland Finnegan.

[Ocho]

Courtland Finnegan. And classic AIB Khalid. Aib. Wait, how you say it?

[Chad Johnson]

Aeb.

[Ocho]

Aib, Talib and Michael Crabtree. Outside of that I mean, that's it. It happens very, very, very, very, very. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Not to the mag.

[Chad Johnson]

There's a culminate. There's a buildup to it.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

This is something that happens over years.

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Chad Johnson]

It ain't just one game. It's a history, is a pattern, right? And it's like, okay, enough is enough. Because Dre told us. He's like, man, he had been doing this stuff for some years, and it just built up and it just, that day, like, you know what? I'm going to put my foot down, actually, I'm going to put my foot in his ass. And so it was a buildup, but, you know, when you enjoy practice, you got close proximity, because when you fly in, you got flying to BWI, Baltimore Washington International Airport. It's 50, 60 miles, right? If that. So, you know, the close proximity, you know, yada, yada, yada. Everybody say we the toughest, we the baddest, and we get it right. I just, for me, I didn't have that kind of time because I was exerting all my energy in practice. I ain't got time to be fighting. Look, hey, how we doing this? We doing it. Snap the whistle or snap the after the whistle. I just need to know. So that way I, I'm clear on how you play it. So I can play just like that. And I, hey, we're not gonna do no shoving or what? So how we doing? Are we protecting each other? Am I gonna throw your ass over the pile? Or what we do with. I just need to know. Cause I can do it any kind of way. I'm gonna make sure you know one thing. Hey, karma's gotta got a lot better. A lot. Karma used to take years.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

Sometimes karma instant.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah, most definitely.

[Chad Johnson]

Like Instacart, you know, you just like, dang. I don't know how I'm gonna get this. I gotta go to the grocery store. You can order it now. You can Instacart stuff, I guess.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

And they'll bring you exactly what now? Sometimes they bring it to you.

[Ocho]

Yeah, most definitely.

[Chad Johnson]

But so I guess, I guess the Ravens and, and, and, and, and, and the, the Commanders, they had a joint practice. They were having joint practice and they'd just been fighting.

[Ocho]

Huh.

[Chad Johnson]

Damn.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I, I, I, I saw some footage on Twitter today where it was a big scuffle. I'm, I'm assuming they use something maybe from last year, because I, I haven't seen any scuffles of, of Recent, but I mean, this is smaller than the coaches, you know, prepare for the game. Prepare for.

[Chad Johnson]

Because the last thing you want to do is get somebody hurt.

[Ocho]

Ojo. Yeah, most definitely. Most definitely.

[Chad Johnson]

You get somebody hurt. Because then somebody get hurt. And if it's a key player.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Chad Johnson]

Oh, ain't gonna be no more practicing.

[Ocho]

Yeah. At all.

[Chad Johnson]

We fight every snap. We fighting.

[Ocho]

Yeah. I like. I like it.

[Chad Johnson]

You know, look, I get it because a lot of times, because, you know, we doing nine on seven. The DBs and wide receivers doing one on one. Hey, man. Hey, who. Who winning? Y'.

[Ocho]

All.

[Chad Johnson]

Y' all got them, right, baby? Killing these fools out here.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Chad Johnson]

And that's what I'm saying.

[Ocho]

Hey, listen, that's what we got from the Titans. The Titans and Falcons, their joint practice, they going at it back and forth because one Tennessee player said, okay, they got us today, but we gonna get their ass tomorrow.

[Chad Johnson]

Exactly. If that's the mindset at the end.

[Ocho]

Of the day, Unk, it's all about competing. It's all about competing. Those that have already made the team, you want to make sure you look good and be able to put on a show in that joint practice to let them know I'm still him, whoever it is. And if you're not him, I'm trying to make a name for myself right here until I get to do it on Sundays at 1 o'. Clock.

[Chad Johnson]

If I'm not him, I'm trying to be him. But in the meantime, Ocho, you talking about we're gonna get the ass back tomorrow. Coach ain't trying to hear that. He gonna curse me out for the next two hours and meeting.

[Ocho]

Right, right, right, right.

[Chad Johnson]

So I gotta hear his mouth. First of all, I had to hear your mouth. How y' all did us at on the practice field, and then I gotta go to meetings. Gonna get it from Mike. I'm gonna get it from the oc. I'm gonna get it from my position coach. Nah, bro, you're not gonna do that. And not at one point in time. Now, we might get have a team because I can't control Everybody. I'm just one of 11. But when it comes to my one on one matchup, right, Coach ain't gonna do nothing but pat me on my back and say, good job, son.

[Ocho]

I need that.

[Chad Johnson]

I promise you that.

[Ocho]

I need that. Listen, they love.

[Chad Johnson]

Coach gonna be at your Coach gonna be needy. Go have puts in your butt, not mine.

[Ocho]

Absolutely. Listen, they call it a team game, huh? Yes, they call it a team game. They say it functions well, it functions well when you play as a team, but what fail to realize is when you break it down, all it is.

[Chad Johnson]

Is 11 players, 11 individual matchups.

[Ocho]

11 individual matchups. And when in each one of you win that matchup, it works wonders. It works wonders. But the funny thing about it is, sometimes there are weaknesses in that 11, week to week, there's always a weakness somewhere.

[Chad Johnson]

Yes.

[Ocho]

So coaches, that's what coaches come into play. I know what this player does well. I know what he doesn't do well. It's a chess match between coordinators on Sundays. How do I hide weaknesses and put certain players in position to make plays?

[Chad Johnson]

Right, but it's even, even, even in joint practice. It's scripted because they want to look at certain. They want to look at certain formations against certain defenses. You want to see certain defenses against certain formations. So everybody's trying to do everybody a favor now. We don't go, okay, 907, a good, solid thug. Pad on pad, square up, right? Just tell this, let me know. Hey, you going across the middle. Hey, guys gonna put pads on you now. They're not gonna take you to the ground, but be, be prepared for a collision.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Get yourself used to it.

[Chad Johnson]

I'm cool with that. Now, if they don't told us one thing and all of a sudden you want to be a hero. Okay, don't worry about it. I get you back.

[Ocho]

Yeah, it changes everything.

[Chad Johnson]

You damn right it does. Because you're not going to get me and then go over to the sideline and slap hand and slap high fives. Don't worry about it. Ah, come on.

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[Chad Johnson]

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[Ocho]

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[Chad Johnson]

I had to look in the mirror and be like, am I one of.

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I travel the world for him without Eminem.

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[Chad Johnson]

What's your first question?

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[Ocho]

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[Chad Johnson]

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[Ocho]

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[Ocho]

This is an iHeart podcast.