Best of NFL News Part 2: Mike Tomlin on HOT SEAT, Sauce Gardner SNAPS

Summary

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Club Shay Shay – Best of NFL News Part 2: Mike Tomlin on HOT SEAT, Sauce Gardner SNAPS

Podcast: Club Shay Shay
Date: January 3, 2026
Host: Shannon Sharpe (with guest Ocho Cinco)
Episode Summary by Segment (Ads and unrelated promo content omitted)

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Main Theme

This “Best of NFL News” episode dives into major storylines around NFL coaching hot seats, particularly Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh, the enduring greatness and controversy surrounding cornerbacks like Sauce Gardner, locker room culture, and candid NFL opinions—along with trademark storytelling and humor from Shannon Sharpe and Ocho Cinco.

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1. Coaches on the Hot Seat: Tomlin & Harbaugh

Key Points:

• Adam Schefter discusses the implications of the Steelers-Ravens season finale for both coaches’ job security.
• Ocho points out the Steelers’ historical resistance to firing head coaches and doubts Tomlin will be let go, though acknowledges it’s possible after Belichick’s departure in New England. [00:41–02:26]
• Debate over whether a coaching change ever truly moves a team closer to a championship.
• Joe (Shannon) asks whether changing a coach is rebuilding from scratch; Ocho says unless you have the needed personnel, changing the voice doesn’t fix deeper issues.
• Noted that both teams are “not close” to being contenders, regardless of their head coach. [03:25]

Notable Quotes:

• Ocho: "One thing the Steelers have never done, the Steelers have never fired anybody... I don't think it's going to happen now." [01:30]
• Joe: "If a team can fire Bill Belichick with six Super Bowls... God dang it, they can fire Mike Tomlin." [05:50]
• Ocho: "What message are you sending your team, your players, your fans when you say you know what, we letting Harbaugh go, we letting Tomlin go, we starting all over from scratch?" [06:00]

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2. Ravens, Steelers Personnel and Locker Room Dynamics

Key Points:

• Ocho says Ravens’ ongoing quarterback drama (with Lamar Jackson) is organizational, with leaks about injuries coming “from inside the house.” Suggests Lamar would be better off with a fresh start. [07:08]
• Joe argues sometimes a long-tenured coach has simply reached his ceiling, using Andy Reid as an example. [07:53]
• Debate on whether Mike Tomlin’s above-.500 record still matters if the Steelers aren’t true Super Bowl contenders. [09:01]

Notable Quotes:

• Ocho: "Maybe Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh have taken these teams as far as they can take them—maybe somebody else needs to navigate." [08:13]
• Joe: "I thought the job was to win and win championships. So in the last decade, how close have the Steelers come to winning a championship? Realistically?" [09:06]

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3. Receivers, Cornerbacks, and Talent Evaluation

Key Points:

• Ocho and Joe riff on the NFL’s need for big receivers, criticizing the trend toward smaller pass-catchers and noting the “illusion” of size on TV. [04:15]
• Humorous exchanges about possible comebacks (Ocho jokes he’s still available to play).

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4. Sauce Gardner “Snaps” at Critics

Key Points:

• Sauce Gardner’s social media post (now deleted) defending his low target numbers and comparative lack of interceptions—arguing this is a sign of respect, not regression. [16:07]
• Ocho strongly argues Sauce remains a top-5 corner and attributes criticism to over-focusing on raw interception numbers instead of context. [16:59–18:09]
• Joe says Sauce’s rookie year set an unrealistic bar, “maybe as high as it gets”; fans need to be fair. [18:09]
• Comparisons with legends like Revis; discussion of other elite corners in the league (PS2, Stingley, JC Horn, etc.) and the challenge of sustaining peak performance year after year. Ends on the intense scrutiny players endure. [20:43–22:53]

Notable Quotes:

• Sauce Gardner (via Joe): “Having a cornerback to take away half the field is equivalent of having a nice QB.” [16:07]
• Ocho: “He's still a lockdown corner in man to man... Don't just say you don't like him and just say oh he gets toasted... Let's break down the numbers and compare.” [16:59]
• Joe: “Maybe Sauce set the bar so high... that was never gonna be able to maintain for 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 years.” [18:09]

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5. NFL Transactions & Free Agency Chatter

Key Points:

• Cowboys’ interest in re-signing veteran pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney; Ocho and Joe humorously calculate how much money Clowney would actually keep living in tax-free Texas. [23:20–24:42]
• Chatter about potential trades (Miles Garrett, etc.), value maximization, and why certain stars may or may not be on the move soon. [32:00]

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6. Locker Room Culture, Offseason Storylines & Old School NFL

Key Points:

• Candid stories about NFL player mindsets and “business” side—Ocho jokes about getting a Miles Garrett record-setting jersey, even if the Hall of Fame is after it too. [27:00]
• Coaches and front offices’ complicated dynamics with star players (e.g., the Trayvon Diggs situation in Dallas, media narratives, and why breakups get dramatic). [38:09–44:33]
• Players reflecting on hard work and upbringing—in-depth anecdotes about working summers as kids, family struggles, and how that shapes their drive. [60:03–66:36]

Notable Quotes:

• Ocho to Joe: "You are probably what not only the NFL needs, but the players in today's game need... structure and discipline." [12:30]
• Joe: "I've never shied away from hard work. That's what I know." [66:36]

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7. Bengals’ Postseason Frustrations and Need for Change

Key Points:

• Joe Burrow and Ja’Marr Chase sound off on the Bengals’ letdown of a season, hinting that “obvious” issues need fixing—Ocho calls for defensive investment and lobbying free agents. [45:11–48:13]
• Identification of defense as the clear need, with specific targets for improvement, and a bit of inside recruitment from Ocho.

Notable Quotes:

• Joe (reading Burrow): "We don't want to be in the spot where we are right now. So something's got to change..." [45:11]
• Chase: "At the end of the day, I can't really say or put emphasis on what needs to be changed... but it's pretty obvious..." [45:48]

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8. Lighter Moments, Hard Work, and Family

Key Points:

• Ocho and Joe trade stories about growing up doing manual labor, earning chore money, and the lessons those experiences bring.
• Reflections on providing for family and the generational climb up from poverty. Emotional anecdotes about their grandmothers’ pride at seeing them succeed. [64:02–66:36]

Notable Quotes:

• Joe: “How many 9-year-olds you know got a W2 form? I was working. I've been working all my life. That's all I know.” [53:52]
• Ocho: “You know what? I would have been the best bootlegger there is.” [49:57]
• Joe: “How fortunate and how blessed we are... I thank you. You've been better to me than I even deserve.” [64:50]

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Memorable and Humorous Exchanges

• Ocho teasing about being willing to shovel snow in Buffalo for $20/hr and hot dogs. [58:42]
• Back-and-forths about old jobs, “chores money,” and “the American Dream.”
• Playful threats to "beat the up out of Miles Garrett" if he doesn't deliver a promised jersey. [28:20, 30:17]

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Key Timestamps

• 00:41 – Schefter's take on Tomlin/Harbaugh job security
• 05:50 – “If Belichick can get fired…”
• 07:08 – Lamar Jackson/organizational dysfunction
• 16:07–22:53 – Sauce Gardner discussion & DB rankings
• 27:00 – Miles Garrett’s sack record and jersey story
• 38:09–44:33 – Trayvon Diggs media fallout & player-media relationships
• 45:11–48:13 – Joe Burrow/Ja’Marr Chase on Bengals’ struggles
• 64:02–66:36 – Reflections on family, hard work, and generational progress

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Tone and Takeaways

Throughout, Shannon Sharpe and Ocho Cinco mix deep football insight with heartfelt, sometimes hilarious asides about life, family, and legacy. Both challenge shallow media narratives, champion player perspectives, and keep it candid on locker room realities and what it really takes for NFL teams and stars to win—or fall short.

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Recommended for:
Listeners interested in the real talk behind NFL stories, athlete perspectives, and a blend of unfiltered debate, mentorship, and life advice. Even beyond the gridiron, it’s Club Shay Shay’s chemistry that shines.

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Transcript

[Joe]

What's up?

[Cam Jordan]

It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, the off the Edge with Cam Jordan Podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars from the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment about everything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season. The season of More on the off the Edge with Cam Jordan Podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Joe]

Adam Shester Estimate the Steelers Ravens upcoming NFL season finale will have a border a broader implication on John Har and Mike Tomlin's job security. Shefter said today somebody's going to lose that game and, and somebody's going to lose and when somebody loses that game. We heard the Steeler fan chanting fire Mike Tomlin earlier this year. We've heard Ravens fans saying they could should be a conversation about John Harbaugh after the season. One of those fan bases is going to be unhappy, Shefter says. In the realm of possibility that Mike Tomlin leaves the Steeler where they lost on Sunday and goes does TV next season or coaches somewhere else in 2026. Ocho I don't see a scenario in which Mike Tomlin leaves and goes into tv. But what do you think is going to happen? What like, like you said, somebody's got to lose.

[Ocho]

Somebody has to lose. Honestly, I, I don't see Mike Tomlin. One thing the Steelers have never done, the Steelers have never fired anybody. They've never fired anybody, if I'm not mistaken.

[Joe]

Well, not anybody since 1969.

[Ocho]

And I, I don't think it's going to happen now. It's, it's, it's never been a part of what they do. I just now Harbaugh on other on the other instance. I mean are there are the Ravens closer to winning with Harbaugh at the helm? Do they need another voice like you always say in that building? Maybe so I'm not sure how they feel about them. There's so many different things that need to go go right for the Ravens now, for them to get back in contention and be able to compete, you know, for Lombardi, you know, year in, a year out. But one they gotta, you gotta get your quarterback situation right.

[Joe]

I don't think either's close I don't think either's close to winning.

[Ocho]

But listen well, changing coaches put you further behind the eight ball. It don't put you no closer. You, you tear down the building. Back up.

[Joe]

Let me ask you a question. Did it move Chicago closer or further away?

[Ocho]

What do they have in place? What's the one important piece of every team?

[Joe]

You say they got Lamar Jackson. You say they got it. What they need. Well, damn. I need you to make up your mind. Either Lamar is that or he isn't.

[Ocho]

Yes, he is that.

[Joe]

Okay, then.

[Ocho]

So maybe a new the quarterback is gonna do what?

[Joe]

I didn't say. We're talking about coaching. We don't move past.

[Ocho]

Well, yeah, changing. Changing the coaching. Well, hell, Coach harbor don't play defense. He don't play db, and he definitely ain't no defense in. Y'.

[Joe]

All.

[Ocho]

You know what, you know what pieces your team need to be able to compete, and you. They don't have it right now. They just don't.

[Joe]

I don't think either team is close, and I don't think either team is close with the coaches that they have.

[Ocho]

How about this? What you think about Brian Flores coming to, coming to Baltimore?

[Joe]

Who's going to be his oc? Do I think I, I, Look, I, I, I, Me personally. They need personnel. They need better personnel. On defense, they need a, they need a right guard, but they need defense out the yin yang. Could they use another receiver? Yeah, they need a big. I mean, I don't know what, what's, what happened with Rashad Bateman this year? He is a bigger receiver, but they need, they, they, they need a big receiver. Watch, Kansas City's gonna go get a big receiver.

[Ocho]

God damn, Kansas City got a slew of them boys over there, huh? I mean, we, I mean, we talked about Rasheed Rice last year like he was the second coming of.

[Joe]

Ain't got a huge catch radius when you got guys 5, 8, 5, 9, 5, 10. Ocho, how big is the catch rates?

[Ocho]

He tall, ain't he? I thought he was like 6, 4, 6, 5.

[Joe]

Man, please.

[Ocho]

He's not that big. Oh, I'm. Yeah, but you know, on tv, I ain't never seen him in person.

[Joe]

How tall is Rashid? Rice is receiving, right? Six foot.

[Ocho]

But he looked tall as hell on tv.

[Joe]

No, he don't look tall to me. They said he's 6:1.

[Ocho]

Okay, okay, so he, he, he, he.

[Joe]

How tall is Hollywood?

[Ocho]

Okay, Hollywood Short. They short. I mean, I see them all the time. They from the crib.

[Joe]

How tall, how tall is Juju? Is juju six foot tall?

[Ocho]

Juju not tall either.

[Joe]

Say juju six one.

[Ocho]

Shoot, I'm, I'm six four. They could bring me back.

[Joe]

I think I might be able to outrun juju, though.

[Ocho]

Juju never a burner, Uncle. He ain't no burner.

[Joe]

So if he wasn't a burner eight years ago, how fast is he now?

[Ocho]

A little bit slower, A tad bit. He might not know it.

[Joe]

Oh, he knows it. You know.

[Ocho]

Hey, these teams need a weapon, man. I'm always available. I'm always available.

[Joe]

I look at it like this here, Ojo. If a team can fire Bill Belichick with six Super Bowls and 10 Super bowl appearances, God dang it, they can fire Mike Tomlin.

[Ocho]

And John, listen, when you use that analogy, perspective, you know, for better context, that's, that's, that's a possibility. But you gotta understand, what message are you sending your team, your players and your fans when you say, you know what, we letting Harbaugh go, we letting Mike Tomlin go, we starting all over from scratch.

[Joe]

Let me ask you this. When you throw, we throw furniture out and put new furniture, what messages you sending?

[Ocho]

Well, you ain't got the good, you ain't got the furniture to bring in. How about that?

[Joe]

What you mean, what furniture? You gonna bring in a new coach's furniture? Damn. Are you listening?

[Ocho]

You got new furniture but still got the same people sitting on it.

[Joe]

Well, shit, what's gonna be the difference? Yeah, you the same people when your grandma got new, got a new couch, and got the old couch, your stack, your, you and Chauncey would still had your ass on the couch. Hell no.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, hey. I tell you what, like all jokes aside, the Ravens organization, the Steelers organization, they have some tough decisions to make. I'm very, very tough ones. And, and honestly for me, the fact that the way Lamar is being done because he's had this one injury seat, this one injury prone season, and the stuff coming out about him that we knew nothing about, and all of a sudden people that are not in that building, they all of a sudden know about it means it's coming from inside the house, you know, so, you know, at that point I, I would much rather him have new scenery, go somewhere else and start and start over.

[Joe]

I give you a prime example. Look at Andy Reid. Ah, they fired Andy Reid in Philly. He went to Kansas City. Now he's the hall of Fame. Now you can make a case that he's a top five coach in the history of the game.

[Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Joe]

Jeffrey Lurie had To say, you know what? You've taken us as far as we can go. Maybe Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh is taking these teams as far as they can take them. Maybe somebody else need to navigate, and that's okay. I'm not saying they're bad coaches, but maybe it's just time for a different voice to be heard in the locker room.

[Ocho]

Damn. Hey, you hear that? Time for a new voice.

[Joe]

It's outlier. Everybody's an outlier. So what? What was Tom Brady. Tom Brady. He's an outlier. Let me get this right. Peyton Manning, he's an outlier.

[Ocho]

Of course they're outliers, but I'm just saying.

[Joe]

So what? You just hold. So you just hold on to him. I guess it sounds good, though. Mike Tomlin has never had a losing season. I thought the job was to win. I thought the job was to win and win championships. So in the last decade, how close have the Steelers come to winning a championship? Realistically, let's be honest, Making the playoffs just because you make the playoff.

[Ocho]

Come on.

[Joe]

Because they've been. They've lost the first round every time in the last decade. So, realistically, how close have they been? I'm waiting on you, Steeler fans.

[Ocho]

Are you using.

[Joe]

I know y' all, black and yellow and all that, the terrible towels. How close, Steeler fans, realistically, in the last decade, have you been to winning a championship?

[Ocho]

You know, you got affiliation over there in Baltimore, Huh? You played that. You won a ring. Now, you know that.

[Joe]

Yeah, but I'm realistic. I was realistic with the Broncos.

[Ocho]

You don't even see where I'm going with it, though, if that. That opportunity for, you know.

[Joe]

Hell, no.

[Ocho]

Can you imagine that? Coach Sharp.

[Joe]

Nope.

[Ocho]

Coach Sharp.

[Joe]

I want no part. I like talking about football. I don't want to look at no tape. I don't want to look at tape and try to evaluate players and bring players in and none of that. My time.

[Ocho]

Exactly what you're looking for. You know exactly what you.

[Joe]

I do.

[Ocho]

I need a perfect person for the job. And that's. That's the problem.

[Joe]

God, is what I look about something about 5, 6, 5, 7, 58 with some hood, hugging jeans. No, no, I mean, that what I'm trying to evaluate. I mean, see, since you say. I know what I'm looking for.

[Ocho]

Hey. Hey.

[Joe]

Good. Hey. Okay.

[Ocho]

Okay. How many. How many. How long before you off probation?

[Joe]

You know, I got. I got you about 30 days. 30.

[Ocho]

Are you good?

[Joe]

You good?

[Ocho]

You good? You good? Hey, but, hey, listen, I'm first one on board, Lamar. I know Lamar might be watching. Honestly. Oh, hey, it's so funny. All them, all them boys be tuned in and they don't even. But they don't, they don't type nothing in the, in the chat. They be tuned in.

[Joe]

Ocho. Insane stat. The Steelers are winless.04 and one in the last five games versus teams entering with eight plus games below.500, tying the longest streak in NFL history. In 22, they lost. Excuse me. In 2020, they lost to the Bengals, who were 210 1. In 21, they tied the 08 Lions. In 2023, they lost to the 2 and 10 Cardinals. In 23, they lost to the 2 and10 Patriots. And in 25, they lost to the 3 and 12 Browns.

[Ocho]

Hey, you think Sterling want a coach?

[Joe]

What?

[Ocho]

No, bro.

[Joe]

I can't get him to come on. Once a month you talk about coach.

[Ocho]

I'm, I'm just saying, hey, you, you, you're a brilliant mind when it comes to the game. And I'm telling you, you are probably what not only the NFL needs, but the players in today's game need. Giving them players listen. It's a different era. But you coming in with those your old ways and mixing that and balancing it in moderation, allowing them to, to have a little structure and discipline. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, you keep denying, you keep denying God's calling and that's the problem. Yeah, I come be your assistant.

[Joe]

Now. I'm good. I don't watch enough tape as it is. I, I don't, I ain't got time for guys to come and be coming in late because I don't, I don't do the excuse thing.

[Ocho]

They're not gonna come in late with you. That's the point I'm trying to make.

[Joe]

I, I, I think the thing is, because I had to learn, I had to learn with Club Shay because, you know, I'm thinking the interview, they say 1 o'. Clock, they say 12 o'.

[Ocho]

Clock.

[Joe]

Okay, 12 o', clock, we starting, we're starting 12 15, 12 30, 1, 1 30, 1 30, 2 o'. Clock.

[Ocho]

Famous people, they, them famous people be on their own time, they ain't got no regard for nobody else. Time.

[Joe]

They the one that set the time up.

[Ocho]

Yeah, they got, how you set the time up. And lady do head makeup and all that. You notice when we, we did our club shake shake, you notice I was there 30, 40 minutes early.

[Joe]

I said I wouldn't go quite 30, 40 minutes early. But you Were you were. You were on time?

[Ocho]

30, 40 minutes early? Because I was outside smoking a cigar. I beat you there.

[Joe]

Yeah. I said it was gonna be at 1 o'. Clock. I got there at 12:45 and I.

[Ocho]

Got there at 12:10 because I knew I wanted to smoke and drink my coffee outside. Yeah, see, I. I be on. I be on time. Like, my God, on time.

[Joe]

What's up?

[Cam Jordan]

It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, you off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars for the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment about everything from teams and players making waves to pop culture. And I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season. The season of more on the off the Edge with Cam Jordan podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Podcast Guest]

Us wins, we all win.

[Ashley Reifeld]

I'm Ashley Reifeld and I'm the host of the women's skateboarding podcast Good Luck with that. Good Luck with that is a skateboarding podcast that is part cultural record, part news brief, mostly group therapy and a place to talk about the past, present and future of women and gender. Expansive Skateboarding this week, me and my co hosts Nora Vasconcelos and Alex White, we have Fabiana Delfino on the show, a professional skateboarder from Florida whose grit was forged in a family of athletes. Tune in to hear how she broke into the boys club, what it takes to be pro, and why just being grateful you're here shouldn't be the price of entry.

[Podcast Guest]

Maybe the industry thinks that we just started skating five years ago because that's when they maybe started paying attention.

[Ashley Reifeld]

It's a no fluff conversation about putting in the years, stacking clips and receipts and still having to prove your worth while the industry catches up.

[Podcast Guest]

You break down the door sick now, like hold the door for everyone.

[Ashley Reifeld]

We created Good luck with that because we want to share our experience existing in an industry that wasn't always built for everyone. So listen to Good luck with that on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe]

Oh, yo, Sauce. Gardner went up on his critics reacted to yesterday's game and a now deleted post. I'll go ahead and say real since nobody else will because it's me, I only have 32 targets. There are only zero cornerbacks that had only 32 targets through 600 snaps. I only had 22 targets through seven games. I don't get targeted as much as 99.8% of the other corners in the league. Only like 50 of those got completed. Two touchdowns allowed, one was on a busted coverage. But at the beginning of the year only 208 yards allowed all year. Some receivers go 400 in one game and I'm missing something. Am I missing something? Also in my opinion, having a cornerback to take away half the field is equivalent of having a nice qb. Oo what's going on? What, what sauce talking about? What what's really going on with something.

[Ocho]

We talk about some of the better corner corners in the league. I think his, his name needs to be in the conversation because I think he played New York. It's, he's seen more, he's seen more and, and always highlighted more since his rookie season. I think he had, I can't remember how many receipts he had his rookie season but they have dipped off. But he's still a very, very, very good man to man corner and he can take away a team's best receiver and he does follow the number one receiver. No side to side where wherever he goes, I think still to this day he needs to be in that top five conversation of some of the one of the better DBs in the league. When you look at the numbers, don't, don't, don't say you don't like him for whatever reason it may be. Sometimes he can be a little handsy, sometimes he can get a call. But he's still a lockdown corner in man to man in today's NFL if you break down the numbers, don't just say you don't like him and just say oh he gets toasted or he gets beat. No, let's break down the numbers and compare to the other good DBs in the NFL and then you will see he is a top corner still and he doesn't get target. So he's not going to have the interceptions that some other players have.

[Joe]

No, he don't have hands. That's why he don't have interceptions. He can't catch. No, but I think me, I just don't, I, I, when I look at him Ocho, I look at him his first year and his second year and I don't see that same effectiveness. Now that's not to say that he's not and maybe that's as high as good as it gets, because Rebus was good, but that 2009 season was out of this world. So if you compare him against his best, then what do we do with. And so maybe Saul set the bar so high and so unrealistic that that was something that he was never gonna be able to maintain for 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 years.

[Ocho]

And also for DBs, based on the way the public, those who enjoy watching the game, fans that love watching the game, they just look at numbers, interception. But if you're not getting the opportunities to make the plays, there's really nothing he as a DB can do. And I think we have a DB like Sauce, which is why they gave two first round first rounders for him. Because I understand not only are we all in, we believe he can take one side of the field away from us and we can do that much more exotically defensively with everybody else.

[Joe]

Yeah, but that's the thing that. That's the expectation that he came in and was so good his rookie season and they tried.

[Ocho]

Everybody tried him as rookie season two. They kept throwing at him. Yeah, he kept picking them things off.

[Joe]

Like it's up like a booker and, and, and he. New coordinators, I mean, you know, are they still playing him the same style? The thing is that Revis was in that Rex Ryan defense, very aggressive. A lot of man to man coverage. Even Coach Belichick, when he got him, he put him in man coverage. He's. Because he's not his own. He's not his own corner. He's a.

[Ashley Reifeld]

He.

[Joe]

He likes to be handsy. You look at him when he was at Tampa, you know, even though I think. Didn't he tear his knee at Tampa, I think that's where he got hurt.

[Ocho]

I didn't know he got hurt. He towards. He messed. He tore his acl.

[Joe]

Yeah. You know he was at Tampa.

[Ocho]

I know he's at Tampa. I ain't know he tore his. I ain't know he messed up.

[Joe]

It ain't that where he tore his acl.

[Ocho]

I ain't know that, man.

[Joe]

Look, when people talk about the top corners, they talk about PS2, they talk about Stingley, they talk about Gonzalez, they talk about. Yeah, P2, Junior Gonzalez, Jalen Johnson. Jalen. He was hurt.

[Cam Jordan]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

But hey, what he's. Hey, he is that boy.

[Joe]

I'm trying to think who the NFC corners.

[Ocho]

JC Hornblee belongs in the conversations as well. Keon Mitchell belongs in that conversation as well. Sauce belongs in that conversation as well. When we talk about the better coins.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah. Mitchell. Mitchell Cooper. Dijon and who's the other is A.J. terrell. Did A.J. terrell make it? We know Mitchell and Dijon are. Are two. I don't know who the other is. Is it JC Horn? But hey, bro, that thing ever evolving? It's hard. It's hard to stay at the top for a period of time, man. Because them jokers coming.

[Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Joe]

It's hard.

[Ocho]

Absolutely.

[Joe]

Okay. Oh yeah. Spoon. Spoon from.

[Ocho]

Yeah, we're 21.

[Joe]

Yeah. Spoon and J.C. horn.

[Ocho]

Tyree will hell if that's. We might with old Tyreek. Tyreek Tariq willing in it too.

[Joe]

Denzel Ward. We forgot about him. So the names, you know, you go Denzel. War, you go Pastor Tan, you go Stingley, you go Gonzalez.

[Ocho]

JC Horn as well.

[Joe]

Horn, you go. Mitchell, you go DeJean, you go AJ Terrell. Bro, you. Hey, when. When you. When you get. When you get injured. Starters.

[Ocho]

Right?

[Joe]

Javian Clown has had a solid first season in Dallas and now the Cowboys are hoping to bring the veteran de defensive end back in free agency. Steven Jones said team absolutely wants to resign Javian in free agency. He's played at a very high level. We'll be talking to his guy right away. Hopefully. Willingness, willingness to want to be here and, and wanting. Wanting him to be here. Hopefully we can figure something out. Cline. He signed a one year deal for three and a half million dollars with the Cowboys in September after going unsigned this offseason. Playing the first four games the team in week four, his first game in week four. In 12 games, the former number one overall pick has logged 35 tackles, five and a half sacks and three passes defended. Yeah, he gonna come back, say, hey, give me, you know, hey look, I led a team in sacks, you know, put some incentives in there. Give me four, four, give me five million. Let me. If I lead a team in sacks, if I lead you, if I get 10 sacks, let me get a m. You know, something like that. O Joe, cuz you're in Dallas, there ain't no state taxes. So you keep it, you know, you keep it a large chunk of your money.

[Ocho]

Yeah, give me, give me.

[Joe]

You keep it about 630,000 off every million. I don't mean to count the man pockets, but I'm just saying give me.

[Ocho]

Give me, give me, give me about the. Let me get an opportunity to get about 67 million in the center. Yeah, give me that, give me that. I. I could do, I could work with.

[Joe]

What's up?

[Cam Jordan]

It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite Podcast the Off the Edge with Cam Jordan Podcast Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars from the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment about everything from teams and players making waves to pop culture and I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season. The season of More on the off the Edge with Cam Jordan Podcast Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Podcast Guest]

Us wins, would we all win?

[Ashley Reifeld]

I'm Ashley Reitveld and I'm the host of the women's skateboarding podcast. Good Luck with that. Good Luck with that is a skateboarding podcast that is part cultural record, part news brief, mostly group therapy and a place to talk about the past, present and future of women and gender. Expansive Skateboard this week, me and my co hosts Nora Vasconcelos and Alex White, we have Fabiana Delfino on the show, a professional skateboarder from Florida whose grit was forged in a family of athletes. Tune in to hear how she broke into the boys club, what it takes to be pro, and why just being grateful you're here shouldn't be the price of entry.

[Podcast Guest]

Maybe the industry thinks that we just started skating five years ago because that's when they maybe started paying attention.

[Ashley Reifeld]

It's a no fluff conversation about putting in the years, stacking clips and receipts and still having to prove your worth while the industry catches up.

[Podcast Guest]

You break down the door sick now, like hold the door for everyone.

[Ashley Reifeld]

We created Good Luck with that because we want to share our experience existing in an industry that wasn't always built for everyone. So listen to Good Luck with that on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts that.

[Joe]

Oh Joe Burrow discussed the mindset when facing miles Garrett and Weed 18. As Garrett closed in on the NFL sack record, Burrow said, I'm certainly not going to overcompensate either way. I'm not going to go out of my way to not let him get the record and I'm not going to go out of my way to let him get the record. Either way, I'm going to play football. Yeah, there's going to be a situation the best of the bad outcomes of that play and maybe I take one. There's going to be other situations that I'm about to get sacked and I Need to throw it away in that situation. I love his mindset.

[Ocho]

Hey, I like it, too. Huh? I like it, too. But obviously, the person that they need to be asking that question to is the officer line. That's who should have been asked to. Obviously, reporters don't want to go there. They probably don't want to ask that to them. But listen, I was. I was very hesitant in saying I don't want Miles Garrett to get the sack record, you know, against the Bengals. But the fact that I'm gonna be at the game and I asked him for the jersey that he gets a second sack record with, I'm gonna allow him to get one sack. I'm going to allow him to get one sack. But now I'll be in the building, Joe, to be able to collect that jersey I asked for. So you know what? Congratulations.

[Joe]

You do realize hall of Fame gonna be on the hand too often, right?

[Ocho]

I tell you. I can tell you what. I tell you what. There's one thing. Is it? Listen, Miles Garrett could do two things. He can get the sack record on Sunday, and he can give that jersey to the hall of Fame after he already promised me, or he can get that sack record and hand the jersey over to me like I asked, like he promised me first. So two things can happen. You get to hand it to me and go ahead and live your life after making history, or you can get your ass.

[Joe]

I think he gonna take the second one. I think he going, yeah.

[Ocho]

I would hate. Hey, Joe. Hey. Hey, Joe. I would hate to have to beat the up out of Miles Garrett for choosing to give that damn jersey after I already asked for it. I would hate. I would hate to do that. That's my book.

[Joe]

That's going down in history, man. That. That. Man get that sack record. You think you finna get that jersey?

[Ocho]

Yeah, Joe. I asked for it.

[Joe]

Joe, man.

[Ocho]

I asked for it. I'm telling you, Joe, I think you.

[Joe]

Get two sacks on Sunday.

[Ocho]

I said one. I. We'll give him one. We'll give him one, huh? We ain't gonna give him two. Hold on.

[Joe]

One. I think it breaks the record. Or two breaks it.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Oh, two breaks it. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Joe]

One breaks it. He has 22. Want to give him 23. The record is 22 and a half.

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, Joe. Hey. He can give him another jersey. Let them put that in there. But give. Give me the original one. I want to frame it. I want to put it up in my game room.

[Joe]

No, they're gonna take that one because that's the jersey gonna have the dirt on it. That's the jersey gonna have the stains on it.

[Ocho]

Worry about. They could put some most. They could put some stains on the other one. Ain't they ain't nothing to go outside and rub that. Rub that goddamn.

[Joe]

Well, they got him in trouble. They got some people guess or people got some. Hold on, hold on. So. So he can't keep his jersey for himself. He can if he want to, but the hall of Fame is going to request it. And it's an honor to have that jersey in the hall of Fame. That's why a lot of the Tom Brick Tom stuff is in the hall.

[Ocho]

And it's an honor. It's an honor for Ocho to have the jersey too.

[Joe]

Nah, because it's gonna probably end up in somebody auction house with Ocho game.

[Ocho]

That ain't gonna happen because it's gonna be no reason for me.

[Joe]

Oh, you ain't gonna be here forever.

[Ocho]

Okay.

[Joe]

Like. Like my kids, what. What they do, what I do with it, how I cherish it. That don't mean they gonna cherish it the same way, man. Oh, my God.

[Ocho]

Hey. And I know. Listen, I. I love Miles Gary, man. Miles, he. He promised me. And one thing, one thing, one thing about a man. All we have is our word. If you promise me that jersey and you choose not to give it to me, two things gonna happen. Karma and Imma beat your ass.

[Joe]

Well, I'm sure he's like, if I get that sack record, whatever karma comes with that. I mean, because he's so young and he's so far ahead of the pace.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

There's a chance he can get Bruce's record of 200 sacks. Two hundred and a half sacks or 202, whatever that case may be, there's a chance. Miles Garrett, I mean, he got a. How many sacks miles got? 120. He's way ahead of the pace. I mean, he's blistering.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Now, the problem is the sack didn't become official stat until 1982. They were sacking a quarterback in the 30s. 40 and 50. He got 124 and a half. He's not even 10 years in the league. What is the eight is the eighth year he. Nine years in the league, so he's averaging 12 and a half, 13 sacks a season.

[Ocho]

Damn. That's crazy.

[Joe]

What did Brucey play? 20, 19. Bruce came in at 85. Bruce came in at 85 and he left in. Oh, I think he left in 0403. So Bruce prayed 19, man. Get Miles Garrett up out of there, man. Reggie played. I think Reggie played like 16 to 17 and got 198 and a half.

[Ocho]

Joe, where you wanted to go, Joe, man, come.

[Joe]

Oh, John.

[Ocho]

And don't. And don't say Dallas.

[Joe]

Why not? See? Yeah. Can he get after the quarterback? Yeah. Yeah, he can. Hell yeah. He one of the best to do it. One of the best to ever do. Get him up out of there, man. Let him go play some meaningful football now.

[Ocho]

I like. I like the way it sound.

[Joe]

I think he might be two or three years away from that. I don't think Cleveland just read. I don't think Cleveland's ready to give him up just yet. How many years he in on that deal? I know he got a big deal. How many years He. He signed a four year deal, but he had two years left, so he got another five years on it.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I know one thing, Joe. He might not see them years. He only give me that goddamn jersey. I tell you that.

[Joe]

Oh, so you can cancel that, brother.

[Ocho]

Hey, hey, it's gonna be some things cancel. It's gonna be me.

[Joe]

But the problem is. Oh, yo. I mean, Joe. Is that they got. They got a. A lot of, you know, it's gonna be a lot of suitors. Now. The. The Cowboys do have the capital because they got two first rounds next year and they got another two first rounds the year after.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So they got the. They got the arsenal to go get him.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

If Cleveland's willing to let him go.

[Ocho]

And this would be the. This would be the good time to let him go. If the Cleveland Browns are serious about building something. Because they can get the most value for him right now, not later. You can get the most value.

[Joe]

The.

[Ocho]

The most pieces form if you're serious about building and changing the culture over there in Cleveland. Because you didn't win with him. You didn't win with him. So you know what you need to do? You know what you need.

[Joe]

You can really help some team.

[Ocho]

Yeah, big time, man.

[Joe]

I'm looking at this. Michael Irving took his belt off. Crazy.

[Ocho]

You were whooping that. He was whooping the trash can.

[Joe]

Yeah, babe. That dude. Hey, Ojo, why you a go to, um. Why you go to University Miami?

[Ocho]

What? Jo?

[Joe]

That joke of grades. Joe get in prison with them grades.

[Ocho]

Joe ain't had no grades to go there. Joe. Joe. I couldn't even get in the goddamn famu. Joe.

[Joe]

Joe. He couldn't get in prison with them grades.

[Ocho]

Hey, Joe. Hey. Joe wasn't high school, boy. I was a knucklehead. Joe. And I'm not talking about a knucklehead like, you know, in the street or just. Joe. I wasn't going to come to school.

[Joe]

When you want to leave when you want to.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Joe. Hey, Joe. I went to school on Miami Beach. Joe. Miami B. Senior high. I was on south beach for high school. That's why my grandma ain't want me in the inner city where I grew up going to school with them boys, it would. It would have even. It would have been even worse. So if I ain't do right over there, you know, with them folk, imagine me in the city with all my homeboys. Joe. I was bad.

[Joe]

If you get Chad, if you get an opportunity to party with one guy in your lifetime, let it be Mike. If you get an opportunity to party with any athlete, any superstar, any podcaster, any person, let it be Mike. They go hard like that, huh? Let it be Mike.

[Ocho]

He be having fun.

[Joe]

Let it be Mike. Mike is the greatest. Mike is the greatest one that. I'm gonna tell y' all the story how Mike and I stole Gary Sheffield Winnebago. I started bringing that up during the interview. Ocho, right? But Mike and I stole Gary Sheffield Winnebago at the super bowl in Atlanta back in 99. I believe that. What a time. What a time, what a time. I think he breaks the record, though. Oo you think he gets the record? You said he does get the record, Joe. You think he gets the record?

[Ocho]

I know, I know, I know. I see him talking, you know, trying to support my team, but Miles Garrett is probably. He wasn't able to get it last week. I'm not sure the Bengals will go away from doing what the Steelers did where they were so worried about him getting the record. They didn't even. They weren't able to play their game offensively.

[Joe]

Exactly.

[Ocho]

It took away from the them offensively.

[Joe]

So I. Yeah, you doing. I mean, you running booze and you running roll out. You got the guys chipping that they can't get in routes real quick. People like, why Gary Sheffield had a Winnebago Super Bowl. I like, hey, what up, Sherry man? What up, Shop? How you doing, Mike? I'm like, Mike. Yeah, what else? You know how Mike is. You know, Mike, Mike animated. What you doing, Shop? I want whatever you own. Let's just say Sheffield went a. A We took the Winnebago. I called a cab to come get me the next morning. I couldn't drive to Winnebago. I could try to Win a bag on home. Lord have mercy. Boy might go hard in the paint. Boy. Hey, that was a great time. A great time was had. Chat Great time was had. Y' all know that. Oh, Joe. Michael was active today on Twitter. Oh, excuse me. X defending his new teammate, Trait Von Diggs. First, a cowboy beat rider tweeted, trayvon Diggs grave per Football Focus. I don't even look at Pro Football Focus. 2020 was 67.2. Then 21 it was 59.6. 20, 22 it was 66.9. And 23 it was 80.2. Only two games though. 24 it was 56.6. And 25 was 56.1. Statistically, he's the worst corner in the league right now. And the tape is even worse. Maybe we owe those guys that Pro Football Focus an apology. Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Joe]

Then Michael responded. I feel like, what the point they're trying to publicly disrespect someone. He's not representing the star anymore. Just give the man a farewell, wish him the best. I, I don't know why everything has to be negative every time breakup happens. He's better, he's in a better situation right now. Trust me, bro. Gonna be great again. Then he added, y' all want me to feel bad? Jerry Jones slandered my name to the Cowboys media and national media for months. So do I think I can react to comments if I want to? Respectfully, Ojo.

[Ocho]

Yeah, man.

[Joe]

What you thinking?

[Ocho]

I mean, listen, I mean, Micah, at some point, he's tired of it. Obviously, when things don't work out, why is it always the media once, why not wish the players farewell? Why do you always have to bring up the negative about him on, on, on, on why he's gone and, and, and where he, where he's at right now? And I, I, I don't understand. It's, it's tasteless to me. It's classless to me. Most, most times when other players from other teams, they get traded, they sending their farewells, they say, thank you, appreciate your work. I know things didn't work out the way they should, but hey, every divorce, when it comes to the Cowboys and their players, it has to be nasty. It doesn't have to be some, you know, expect, you expect it from fans, sometime fans. Yes, but, you know, the media in itself, there's so many other things that's going wrong in that organization. You don't have to do the players like that. They did Micah like that. They said they were better without them. Then they put up These numbers, they found numbers in a way to. To justify him not being there, why it was okay, and why they were in a better position. And now with Trayvon Diggs, they did the same thing.

[Joe]

Well, normally, reporters don't know farewell. They might call you if they have your number. They might. That might be something. Privately, I appreciate you, you know, you talking to me. He was always respectful and professional with me when I was here and you were here. So I really, really appreciate that. I got a lot of that when I left Denver the first time. Even when I left Baltimore, you know, I had a lot of guys reach out, and, you know, we stayed in contact for years. They would call and ask me, so. And things I could help them on, I would be more than happy to help. But normally, publicly, reporters can't wish you the best. That's. That's not what their job. That's not what their job is. Oh, right. Okay. But I. I think the thing is, is that people like, well, Michael, this divorce has happened five months ago. Yeah, I think that's the thing. People like, bro, you. You moved on with your life. You happy?

[Ocho]

Yeah. I mean, but in sense, in essence, for context, got to understand he was taken up for Trayvon, and that's all. And just reminding them five months ago, they did him the exact same way. As much as he'd done for them, obviously not being able to, you know, what the end goal is? The end goal is always to win a championship. He wasn't able to bring that, but they found ways to justify him leaving. And some of the things that Jerry said, and obviously, you know, we talked about it in length when it happened. Oh, he wasn't coming back. There's. There's no way owner talks about a player like that publicly. And you still in his team. And you think I'm going to represent you in the right way.

[Joe]

I. I agree with you. Look, like I said last night, I'm not here to beat up Trayvon. He had his moments. And I. I just saw things that were kind of like. Had me trending. You know, I just keep my mouth shut. Cause I hear a lot of people saying, well, well, we got people. They. They said d. Dming me pictures of him in the club or him being somewhere. That ain't got nothing to do with me. I'm gonna talk about his play on the field, and that's where I'm gonna leave it at. So. But I just saw the. I just saw the way it was trending, and I was like, yeah, they. They're gonna have, they're gonna have a, they're gonna have a breakup here before long. And, and it, it, it. Brian Schottenheimer shoddy said yeah, because we told him he couldn't go. And then the reports that he was at a concert. I don't know. I don't know if he was at a concert. But that's it. That's inconsequential. Because when you ask him, could you stay, they said no. Right. Once they said no, it doesn't matter whether you're at a concert. And I guess like you said, maybe, maybe he just wanted to leave. Maybe he wanted out. I, I don't know.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Joe]

But in that situation, once if your boss say, you ask your boss, can I get off tomorrow? He says, no, we really need you to come in. Oo if you take off tomorrow, it don't matter what you took off for.

[Ocho]

Right.

[Joe]

They did not give you the day off. So if they move in another direction, you can't be mad.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I, I don't think he is mad. I don't think he is mad either way. I think obviously he wanted out. He knew it was coming. There were issues obviously, dating back to training camp and him choosing to, to do his. Not training camp, but off season. Him choosing to do his, his rehab and elsewhere and not want to be in Dallas. Obviously Jerry Jones and the Cowboys organization taking 500,000 from him because of his choice and wanting to rehab away from the facility.

[Joe]

Correct.

[Ocho]

And then obviously him saying he's healthy, him being a healthy scratch. Him talking to the media, the media saying he's healthy, but Jerry saying he's not healthy. I mean, it was so much turmoil going on there and, and I think he just wanted to expedite the process of him not being there. So him choosing not to come back on that flight and, and stay wherever he was and do what he wanted to do and he, he got what he wanted. He got.

[Joe]

I think the thing is. OO also, and you heard Aberfl when he was talking, he said some things. Trans hired, he's like, look, when you have a guy that can get there suddenly and we trade that guy. He's talking like a guy that knows he's not coming back. So I'm gonna be truthful. We traded Michael. What the hell do you expect to happen with our secondary? You need a guy that can win right now. He's the one guy that can win right now.

[Ocho]

Yes.

[Joe]

He's the one guy that if you don't double, he will wreck your deep. He wreck your Offense, they don't have anybody like that. And so with that, with Trayvon not well, maybe he was helped. Maybe he's healthy now. Maybe he wasn't healthy at the start of season. I don't know. I don't know. But what I do know is that he was a guy that would take some risk. He's a, He's a. He's a feast of famine guy. Ocho, he's gonna get you, but you're gonna get him. Yeah, and. And teams double moved him. They. That's how you. That's how you got to get him. You know, there are guys on show. We starting off, we double moving you.

[Ocho]

Cause we gotta back you up aggressive.

[Joe]

You gonna jump something. So we want you. We gonna, we gonna. We're gonna use your aggressiveness against you. And Diggs is. He's not in Dallas anymore. I don't. And, and people go like, well, you know, that's what. No, no, that's not the reason why. That's not the reason why you. You're not gonna. I'm not gonna let y' all put all this on Diggs. Has dig played his best football the last couple years? No, but there have been a lot of guys that hadn't played their best football. Y' all think Duron Bland played his best football?

[Ocho]

Oh, no.

[Joe]

Y' all paid him.

[Ocho]

He. He just got that back bag.

[Joe]

I think he played his best. There are a lot of guys that hadn't lived up to expectations. That's a part of it. You got some. The Cowboys got some choices to make. Y' all. Problem is, y' all general manager is terrible and don't nobody know that but him. And he doesn't know. Everybody knows it except him. Yeah, but keep him in place. I, I like give y'. All give us something to talk about. So guess what? It's 31 years before y' all went to the NFC championship game again. Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase both came out and spoke today about the Bengals disappointing season and what needs to change to get this team back to the Super Bowl. Burrow said, we don't want to be in the spot where we are right now. So something's got to change. Whether it's players, we're continuing to improve and get better and play championship caliber football or bringing in guys or wi. Or that will. Or whatever there may be. Obviously something has to change. Chase. I think some of the things are pretty obvious what we need to change. At the end of the day, I can't really say or put emphasis on what needs to be changed because it's not my role, but it's pretty obvious defense and what some of the issues are need to be changed. I love Chase. Chase said ain't my role. They like me to catch passes, score touchdowns. That's what I'm gonna do. But y' all know what it is.

[Ocho]

Yeah. Hey, listen, the. Ella. We know what the elephant in the room is. I mean, Chase and Jamar don't. I mean, chasing Jamar, Joe. Joe and Joe Burrow and Jamar. Chase don't need to say it. I'm not sure why the media's even asking them. Asking them questions. They know what the problem is. We know what the problem is. Those that aren't Bengal fans know what the problem is. We know what issues need to be addressed in the off season, in the draft. And I'm. I'm hoping. I'm hoping that we continue based on some of the things that Joe Burrow has said. He's put everybody on alert. He's put everybody on alert, and we need to do what's necessary to continue to keep our team in an advantageous position to compete for Lombardi and every single year, continue to put pieces not around me offensively, because you've done. You.

[Joe]

You.

[Ocho]

You've done everything you can for us.

[Joe]

Offensively, well, you can prove. Offensive line. I won't be mad if you improve the offensive line.

[Ocho]

You can do that. You could maybe. Maybe add another piece somewhere. Somewhere in the guard area, maybe. I would. I would like a nice centerpiece. Well, at the center position, which is most of the time is the weak link on. On most teams, but defensively, we know we. Hey, we need to attack. We need to attack in the off season and in the draft. Defensively, I personally chat. I want us to go get Jeffrey Simmons. I'mma talk to Jeffrey Simmons at the Pro Bowl.

[Joe]

A lot of other people.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I. I want to go get Jeffrey Simmons. Huh. Let's. Let's solidify somebody up there on that front end. On that front end. You know, and I'm. I'm not sure what's going to happen. I'm sure Trey Henderson is gone.

[Joe]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. He gone.

[Ocho]

Okay. Trey Henderson is gone. I'm not sure we can. If we can get another premiere deep as in, you know, but I know we're gonna get Jeffrey Simmons. I told Jeffrey. We've had multiple conversations, and I don't want it to come to a rift, so I need to make sure that happens. You know, I'm doing my due diligence. For the organization as well on the outside.

[Joe]

Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm gonna give you some key figures from 1933. The average home price cost between $3950 $700. The average income was around 1300 to $1700. A new car cost roughly 600 to $800, and gasoline was 10 to 18 cents a gallon.

[Ocho]

Hey, what would you do for us to be back in those time for them kind of prices?

[Joe]

Man, I don't want to be back to my brother. That was the Great Depression, People jumping out of winter, killing.

[Ocho]

Hold on.

[Joe]

No, I don't want to be back there. I'm good right here, right now.

[Ocho]

Okay, I'm understanding. I'm just saying with. With the price point. With the price point.

[Joe]

Blacks weren't making money like that. Do you understand? If the average blacks weren't. They didn't include us in the average.

[Ocho]

I. I understand what you're saying, but hey, you know, everybody complained about the goddamn prices today.

[Joe]

You know, you were a sharecropper. Do you understand what you was doing? You was making pennies. If the average income was 12 to 1700, there probably wasn't 1000 black people in the country making that kind of money. Yeah, I thought, hell no, I don't want to go back there.

[Ocho]

Well, you know what I'd have been doing back then?

[Joe]

Huh?

[Ocho]

You know what I would have been doing back then?

[Joe]

Hustling like a lot of other black people was doing.

[Ocho]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I would have been a. I would have been. I would have been the best bootlegger there is. You hear me? Yeah, I would have had. I would have had. Hey, I would have had the best rum. Like. Hey, what's the two brothers from? From sinners.

[Joe]

Oh, I know you talking about.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I forgot the twins name. And sinners. What? Hey, I. Look, I grew up.

[Joe]

I grew up in. In the late 60s, early 70s. And I know how hard we had it. I know what my grandmother. How my grandmother said they doing, you know, five, ten loads of laundry for a quarter a day. Man, please.

[Ocho]

A quarter?

[Joe]

Yes. Where do you think black people ate all those scraps? You wasn't getting steak. You was hamburger. You had to eat oxtail. You had to eat neck bone. That's where pig feet, chitlins, pig tail. That's where that came from. I don't know what people thought they were. You getting ribs? Beef ribs? No, hell, no. Hell, I'm g. Let you have that one. Don't you. You go back there, let me know. Let me know what it's like.

[Ocho]

N. No, I. I don't listen. I'm. I'm. I'm talking about the price. I ain't talking about what you had to deal with. I'm just talking about the numbers. That's it. What. Damn.

[Joe]

How you gonna get so you think you gonna be able to go back there with the money you got now? And if you transport yourself, I a.

[Ocho]

Say I wanted to go back there. I said living today. Could you imagine if the price prices were as low and affordable as they were back then? That's all.

[Joe]

Hell no. That. That's impossible.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I. I know that. I. I know that. I'm just, I'm just saying everybody complain about everything today.

[Joe]

Oh, the.

[Ocho]

The price of eggs. Oh, milk so goddamn high. Eggs. See how much eggs are? I mean. Yeah, of course I'm understand. That's why I'm just saying in general, what if it was a little bit more affordable where people weren't living goddamn paycheck to paycheck.

[Joe]

People have been living paycheck to paycheck. What you mean they. They ain't just started. Don't yo.

[Ocho]

Yeah, I know, I know. I'm. I'm just saying it'd be a little. It'd be a little easier. That's why you need the right people in position of power that make the calls.

[Joe]

But every time you say you get the right people, they could be. They get corrupted too. Because how you think they got the power.

[Ocho]

Hey, I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm glad you know. See, that's why I stay out of politics. Because you got to be. You got to be crooked. You can't never be straight and be in the politics.

[Joe]

Like I said. Look, I remember when I was a kid, minimum wage was 330, was 337 an hour. I was a kid. I was a kid 40 years ago. 50 years ago.

[Ocho]

God damn.

[Joe]

So now. Yeah, but now, Ocho, guess what. It's 7:25. That's it. Talking about 50 years ago. It's only gave. It's only gone up, you know, it's double. What the hell is. What kind of bull job is that? Now you look at CEOs, COOs, and you look at everybody else's income, it's going up exponentially. So. And that's what, that's why people say they live in paycheck to paycheck, because a lot the people that was here. Yeah, money has gone here. People that was here, money hadn't gone nowhere.

[Ocho]

Hey, it's, it's, It's a dirty prices home.

[Joe]

You ain't buying no home now for no $5900. Nah, I mean, pretty soon the average house of a home gonna damn near cost you a million dollars. Who the hell gonna be able to afford the American dream?

[Ocho]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe]

Pretty soon they're gonna tell you to stop dreaming. Don't dream no more because that issue ain't coming true.

[Ocho]

You. You know, you know.

[Joe]

Yes. You know what? I'm have my sister to send my thing because I remember I got a. When I was working, I got a W2 form from 1977.

[Ocho]

Damn, you still got it? Yeah, well, you keep every goddamn thing, man.

[Joe]

How Many, how many 9 year olds you know got a W2 form? I was working. I've been working all my life. That's all I know. That's.

[Ocho]

Well, I got, I got, I got, I got a better one for you. How Many, how many 2 year olds you know had cable and a washing machine and dryer in their name?

[Joe]

We didn't even have cable. You couldn't get cable in the country back.

[Ocho]

Matter of fact, I had bad credit before I could walk. How about that?

[Joe]

Hey, they got you. They got you. Yeah, I mean the old American dream, huh? What the question is, who's dreaming it in? Which America is it?

[Ocho]

That's a good one. Come on now, it ain't got to be Sunday for you to preach, man.

[Joe]

Please, man, please. But I remember my grandmother, my grandfather left my grandma in debt like $2,500. Well, you know, I remember last. My sister, my grandma told my sister, this the last payment, ain't it, Libby? She like, yes, ma'. Am. Man, it took us like where it took my grandma like 10 years, 15 years to pay off 2500. You gotta realize my grandma wasn't making about 197 every two weeks. Yeah, how the hell you gonna feed me, Spanky? Libby at the time, Marinell Gladys lived at the house for probably about a year that she left with Chicago with.

[Ocho]

My mom.

[Joe]

Sherman and Jane. How the hell you gonna feed that $5 here, $10 there. That's why we worked in the summer. Or we got little side jobs picking up pecans, clipping onions, right? That's why we chipped in, because we saw how hard it was for granny to try to. Man, run out of gas. We used to have those big propane things they don't have anymore, but they used to have. We used to have a big. A 200 gallon propane tank. Yes, sir, you run out of gas, Ocho? Well, Granny Ain't got no money. You got no. But pay me and my brother have to go down there, chop down a tree, cut it up, pull the stuff, put the heater from the fireplace, put it down, boom. You don't know how many times me and my brother don't put baked sweet potatoes in the hot ashes. Let them cook. Cause we ain't got no gas stove don't work. Ocho. Damn, man, please. People can't tell me nothing about no hard time. I ain't telling what somebody told me when somebody was talking about. I'm talking about the 70s and 80s. I lived it. Yeah, people talk about. Oh, I lived it. So when people talk about hard times, man, please. We got here in Rappaport reports that the Giants are expected to look at all options if they get their hands on the topic in April Rapaport expect them to evaluate all options, including looking at Fernando Mendoza before they make the decision on how they're going to proceed if they have this pick. Dart said this week he hadn't heard much from the report, but made it clear he sees he's the future in New York. I'm going to continue to play ball, play my ball. I know I'm going to be here for a very long time. I'm excited to start winning more games and turn this place around, do my job. We have a bright future and I'm standing on the sideline watching Abdul ball. Watching da ball scat was was here today. When you think about this rookie class, we have a really bright future and we're going to do really big pivot and turn this thing around.

[Ocho]

Oo yes, sir.

[Joe]

For me, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Ocho]

It wouldn't make any sense that.

[Joe]

It wouldn't make any sense that goto what you thinking?

[Ocho]

It wouldn't make any sense at all. You got something special in Jackson darp. Now we. We get. We could. We could pull the reigns back on him a little bit and get him to be a little bit more cautious in the way he plays position. You know he gonna be all right. But he brings something that Listen, I like McDonald. I like Mendoza. I like him. But he's not Jackson dark. He's not going to breed that kind of excitement and put what's in the seat like Jackson Darton goddamn Scatterboat can do.

[Joe]

Nope, he's not.

[Ocho]

Definitely not completely different individual. If you listen to his interviews on he's not ready for that New York media. That ain't for him. That ain't for him. Jackson daughter Is perfect for that situation. He's perfect for that atmosphere, that environment, being in New York, that is the perfect place for him. He's gonna be all right. We just gotta. We gotta tone some things down in his game and he gonna be all right. Other than that. That's all. But all that looking all they can. They can check all the options and every other area except quarterback.

[Joe]

Ocho. The Buffalo Bills are asking fans to help shovel snow at High Mark Stadium before this weekend's game. Anyone 18 years of older get 20 per hour with food and hot beverage provided. Ocho, I'd have been there.

[Ocho]

Wait, how much?

[Joe]

20 an hour.

[Ocho]

Hey, what time is stadium open?

[Joe]

I'm gonna get that. Oh, and food.

[Ocho]

Listen, I don't need no food. Give me. Give me a hot dog. Give me. Give me a hot dog and some hot cocoa. I got you 20 hours. I'd be there all day.

[Joe]

Ocho, you do realize glizzies are food, right?

[Ocho]

My bad. That's a snap.

[Joe]

They probably play. They say they play you in glizzies.

[Ocho]

That's fine. Oh, no, they. Oh, no. I'm getting my 20 hours. Don't do that. I'm gonna get my 20 an hour and I want to make sure I spend it. I want to spend it. I want to be there all day too, because.

[Joe]

Oh, you want to go to the game?

[Ocho]

No. Hey, young, you want to go out there Where? And go shovel?

[Joe]

No.

[Ocho]

Okay. That have been some great content now.

[Joe]

No, it ain't gonna be that.

[Ocho]

Shoveling snow 20 hour.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah. I don't do that. See, I don't know if you really done manual labor, but when you've done manual labor for over a decade. You good on it? You cool on it?

[Ocho]

I did. I was. I did construction work and I did landscape it.

[Joe]

Did all that.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Poor concrete. Concrete, Late asphalt. Yep. Dead roof. Yeah.

[Ocho]

Landscaping Uncle. I was cutting grass at 8 years old. That was part of my chores on Saturday. Yeah, I had a lawnmower.

[Joe]

Well, I'm glad. I'm glad they let you get to be eight before you started doing it. That's. Damn.

[Ocho]

What we talking about?

[Joe]

My.

[Ocho]

My grandma had me out there in her rose bed. I'm the one that had to dig. I'm the one that had to dig them holes in the garden. Yes, I know, but I know about manual labor day out there with the guard gloves on that don't fit.

[Joe]

Three.

[Ocho]

Three sizes too big.

[Joe]

Damn. You had gloves and everything. Damn, you a real worker. Yeah, man.

[Ocho]

Hey, I still. Hey, I still got calluses on my hand from laying bricks. What we talking about?

[Joe]

Look at this, boy. When you using that hammer or that shovel, and you ain't got no gloves that first day, them ha bad your hands hurt so bad like. Lord, I sure hope I ain't got to go in the morning. All right, I'll see you boys tomorrow. Damn. Yeah, I sure want to tell GR. I don't want to go back.

[Ocho]

Son.

[Joe]

Going again. Hey, son, going out there, that's a good piece of job. You mean it's a good piece of job working 12 hours a day for 10, 15. You think that's good? Hey, where else you gonna make that kind of money, boy? My grandma. Hey, look here, man. You could have worked. $15, ma'. Am. K you $5. Well, that's. That's. That's good money. What I mean, you do. I understand, Granny, you worked. It was a quarter for all they load that. Load the laundry that you and Grandma Lou and Annie May had to do. Granny, that was 50 years or 40 years ago. That's 50 years ago, right? $2 ain't a lot of money, Granny. Damn, you could tell. You could. My grandma thought any. Any denomination of money, right?

[Ocho]

It was good.

[Joe]

Yes, yes, yes. But. But that's where, you know, it come from. That's where how I'm wired. I'm a provider. There wasn't a whole lot, but, you know, working in the summer, we worked in the summer. We caught chickens. We once. Once to tobacco was over. We still caught chickens during the season. Come peek up come pecan. Well, pecans were like in this. Like in this in the winter, picking up pecans. We did that. Then when spring come around, it was time to clip onions. Those Vidalia onions that y' all be eating or that. Yeah, yeah, that's what was in the field. You got 50 cent. You got 50 cent a hamper. I give out maybe a quick, you know. Oh, I'll make me a quick. Yeah. 10, 15.

[Ocho]

And you know what you could do with 15 back then?

[Joe]

I know what I could do. Hold on.

[Ocho]

When I was a kid. Hey, you know what you can do with 15 back when I was a kid? Go to the candy lady house. You know how much 15 can carry you at the Candy lady house back in the 80s?

[Joe]

No, $10. No $5. Cause 10 of it got to go to Granny. You got to help pay some bills. You ain't gonna just get all that money and just keep it for yourself, huh? Oh, that's what you thought?

[Ocho]

Nah, I'm not. Okay for me for me, it was chore money. You know? It was chore money. I understand. Once I wash my clothes, once I cut that grass, once I get out there in that, in that rose bed, once I pick the mangoes that are, that are, that are ripe off the, that are ripe off the tree.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Once I sweep up some goddamn leaves, Any leaves that was in the yard. Once I wash them cars. Come on now. I know I got, I got me a good 10, 10, 15 coming. Nope, that can't tell me nothing. I hit an ice cream truck. Coming. Hey, I'm ready.

[Joe]

Bad, please. Me and my brother was talking when he was out here. Said, man, he was looking at. He walking around the house, he was in the backyard. He that sent my sister in law a picture. My, my niece. He's like, boy, we were sitting on the back just talking.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Said man said, when you sit back here, what you think? I said, thank you. How fortunate and how blessed we are. I remember it used to rain. You have to go to the bathroom, be soaking wet. Ocho. Soaking wet. Mosquitoes. You in the south, mosquitoes are bad. I remember all that. And I'm just sitting on nice, nice. And I'm just sitting there just thinking, God, you've been better than me and I even deserve.

[Ocho]

Yes, sir.

[Joe]

I don't even know what I did to deserve this favor, but I thank you so.

[Ocho]

Man.

[Joe]

I just wish, I wish my girl, because she was. Man, I remember the first time I took my grandma to my house in Atlanta. Ocho. Uh huh. She was pulling up, cause she rolled with me, turned down the street, like, ooh. She's like, boy, you living here? I said, yes, ma'.

[Ocho]

Am.

[Joe]

So I turn in there and pull up the driveway, hit the button, the garage go up.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

She walk in there, my sister come up, she's like, libby, this too much house. I never thought. I believe it. I never thought. I see, I see this date, she bragged about that. Everybody, all my uncles, all my aunts, people that she went to church with. You see that boy house? If she saw this one, Lord have mercy.

[Ocho]

You know what that remind me of too, Unk. While you're sitting there explaining. Remember the American Gangster?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ocho]

Yes. And Denzel called you with mom when she came.

[Joe]

Yes.

[Ocho]

And Mama saw the house.

[Joe]

Yes, yes.

[Ocho]

Remind me of that.

[Joe]

Yes, that's exactly how my grandma was. Yeah, she like, oh. She's like, man, she brags so much. Le that boy got. I sure hate to have to clean this. I said, granny, I don't clean it. That's Why I pay somebody, hell to the dog, I'll do nothing. But it was. I mean, she was. She was just so proud. And, man, that's why I'm so appreciative of everything. Ocho.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I know how hard I work to get in the position that I'm in. I don't take anything. I've never shied away from hard work. That's. That's what I know.

[Ocho]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I just said, what you gonna do? I don't know what I would do. I don't know if I could just sit still and not do nothing.

[Ocho]

Oh, wait, you. You like me. You know, I got 274 jobs. I can't. I can't see. I can't sit still. I can't. I got to be. I got to be doing something. I got to be. I got to be doing something.

[Joe]

I do too. Yeah, I. I don't know if I could just. I don't know if I could just sit still. I got to do something. Even if I don't do number one day a week, I got to do something. I gotta. I gotta feel like I gotta get up to do something because if I don't feel like I gotta get them, dude, I'm like, what's my purpose?

[Ocho]

Right?

[Joe]

I mean, you gotta have a purpose.

[Ocho]

I want you to make sure you keep the same energy too. When we win a lotto, we win a lotto. I don't wanna hear nothing about no you taking a vacation. You ain't showing up because you just said you got to be doing something. So I want. When we. We hit for about maybe 6, 7, 800 million, make sure you show up on this show every Monday, every Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday.

[Joe]

Oh, hey, I'm gonna have. I'm gonna take some T. Cto.

[Ocho]

What's that?

[Joe]

Choice time off. PTO is paid time off. I'm taking CTO choice time off. I'm headed. Hey, I'm leaving on the next plane. I don't know when I'll be back again, right?

[Ocho]

That's all right. Long as they got WI fi, you good.

[Joe]

Wherever you going, I'm gonna be connected to something. Okay? I would be. I would be. I would be plugged in. I promise you that, Ocho. I promise you that.

[Ocho]

Foreign.

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

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[Ocho]

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[Ocho]

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[Cam Jordan]

What's up? It's Cam Jordan. I'm back with season three of your favorite podcast, the off the Edge with Cam Jordan Podcast. Tap in every Wednesday to hear conversations with my friends and stars from the NFL, the sports world in general, and entertainment about anything from teams and players making waves to pop culture, and I'll take you inside my journey through my 15th season in the NFL. Looking forward to you joining me this season. The season of More on the off the Edge with Cam Jordan Podcast. Catch new episodes every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

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