Club 520 - Gary Payton on Michael Jordan RIVALRY, Sonics, Mavericks' NBA Draft lottery

Summary

Podcast Summary: Club Shay Shay - Episode Club 520 with Gary Payton

Podcast Information:

• Title: Club Shay Shay
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and Shay Shay Media
• Description: NFL legend Shannon Sharpe—3x Super Bowl champion and member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame—sits down with the biggest athletes, celebrities, and influencers to discuss their accomplishments, challenges, and everything in-between.
• Episode: Club 520 - Gary Payton on Michael Jordan RIVALRY, Sonics, Mavericks' NBA Draft Lottery
• Release Date: May 22, 2025

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Introduction of Guest: Gary Payton

The episode warmly welcomes Gary Payton, a Hall of Famer known for his exceptional defensive skills and competitive spirit in the NBA. From the outset, Gary expresses his enthusiasm for being part of Club Shay Shay, emphasizing the importance of positive representation and mentorship within the community.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (04:03): "I want everybody to understand that we can do other things and play sports and all that other stuff... We can make a positive impact."

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Signature Shoe and Its Impact

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Gary Payton's signature shoe. He reminisces about the collaboration with Nike and the creative process behind designing a shoe that truly represents his playing style and personality.

Highlights:

• Gary shares the unique features of his shoe, including the "zipper" design inspired by his glove.
• Discusses the popularity of the shoe among both men and women, attributing its success to its versatility and style.
• Expresses pride in seeing younger athletes wear his shoe, fostering a sense of legacy and inspiration.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (06:18): "When they came at me and talked about the glove, they wanted me to be a part of the shoe and make it me. The shoe stuck, and everybody loved it."

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Rivalry with Michael Jordan

Gary delves deep into his legendary rivalry with Michael Jordan, shedding light on their on-court battles and mutual respect. He discusses how their competitive nature pushed both to elevate their games.

Highlights:

• Recounts the intensity of guarding Jordan during the 1996 NBA Finals.
• Describes the strategic adjustments made by both players to counter each other's strengths.
• Shares personal anecdotes about their interactions and the psychological aspects of their rivalry.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (22:26): "I hated this game now because these dudes try to shy away from guarding the best defender when you know you're the best player."

---

Experiences with the Seattle SuperSonics and Mavericks

Gary reflects on his tenure with the Seattle SuperSonics, his trade to the Miami Heat, and the dynamics within the teams. He provides insider perspectives on team strategies, player relationships, and memorable moments.

Highlights:

• Discusses the challenges and growth during his early years with the SuperSonics.
• Explains the circumstances leading to his trade and subsequent championship win with Miami.
• Shares insights into team chemistry and the importance of adapting to new environments.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (25:05): "It takes time. Everybody's not gonna be good right away. You have to work and develop your game."

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NBA Draft Lottery and Team Management

The conversation shifts to the intricacies of the NBA Draft Lottery, focusing on recent events involving the Mavericks and the impact of draft picks on team performance.

Highlights:

• Analyzes the Mavericks' draft strategies and the unexpected outcomes of recent lotteries.
• Discusses the influence of management decisions on team composition and success.
• Provides advice for aspiring athletes and team managers on navigating the draft process.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (44:05): "They had a 12% chance to get the number two pick or the number one pick, and they ended up with the number two pick. It was supposed to be different."

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Reflections on Current NBA Players and Legacy

Gary offers his thoughts on contemporary NBA stars, comparing their playing styles to legends of his era. He emphasizes the importance of defense, work ethic, and the mental aspects of the game.

Highlights:

• Commends players like Jason Kidd and Damian Lillard for their exceptional skills and leadership.
• Highlights the evolving role of point guards in the modern NBA.
• Stresses the significance of legacy and how current players can emulate and build upon past greatness.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (29:12): "We breed that, and that's just the way we're different. I'm the OG, so we did a little different."

---

Personal Life and Coaching Philosophy

Gary transitions to discussing his life off the court, particularly his role as a coach and mentor. He underscores the importance of guiding young athletes beyond just their sports careers, focusing on holistic development.

Highlights:

• Shares his motivations for entering coaching, inspired by his father's mentorship.
• Talks about the challenges young athletes face, including mental health issues and the need for strong role models.
• Describes his coaching approach, which emphasizes both athletic prowess and personal growth.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (38:59): "I want to make them men. Everyone isn't gonna make it in basketball or profession. They have to understand their life is everything."

---

Concluding Thoughts and Legacy

As the episode wraps up, Gary reflects on his storied career, the relationships he's built, and his hopes for the future of basketball. He expresses gratitude for the platform to share his experiences and inspire the next generation.

Highlights:

• Reiterates the importance of legacy and being a positive influence.
• Discusses ongoing projects and collaborations aimed at fostering community and mentorship.
• Leaves listeners with motivational insights on perseverance, adaptability, and the pursuit of excellence.

Notable Quote:

Gary Payton (51:16): "Respect y'all to the fullest. Do what you want to do and always set a mark for yourself."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Legacy and Impact: Gary Payton emphasizes the lasting influence athletes can have both on and off the court, highlighting his efforts in coaching and mentorship.
• Competitive Spirit: His rivalry with Michael Jordan exemplifies the drive and determination that define elite athletes.
• Adaptability: Transitioning between teams and roles showcases the importance of flexibility and continuous development in professional sports.
• Community and Mentorship: Gary underscores the need for strong role models and support systems to guide young athletes through personal and professional challenges.

---

This episode of Club Shay Shay offers an in-depth look into Gary Payton's illustrious NBA career, his personal philosophies, and his enduring commitment to fostering growth and positivity within the sports community. Listeners gain valuable insights into the mind of one of basketball's most respected figures, making it a must-listen for sports enthusiasts and aspiring athletes alike.

Transcript

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Gary Payton]

The volume man.

[Jeff]

Y' all ever go get a new phone? And be like, man, this is a good promo. And a couple months later, surprise, your bill is totally different.

[Young Nacho]

But with boost mobile, man, it's 25 for everything. It ain't no price hikes. When I say $25 for everything, I mean $25 for everything. And it's forever. Forever, ever. Forever.

[Bishop]

Boost Mobile is Now legit nationwide 5G network. They've invested billions of dollars across the country.

[Jeff]

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[Bishop]

That's 25 forever text talk data no matter what.

[Jeff]

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[Bishop]

Tap in boost mobile.com, man.

[Young Nacho]

Y' all better tap in 25, man, forever.

[Jeff]

All right, we back another episode of Club 520 podcast. Listen, it's a special episode. We got a special guest, but we gotta start with a special announcement, man. New sponsor to the show be hen.

[Gary Payton]

Who fucking with us, man.

[Bishop]

Boost Mobile. We appreciate y' all, man. Yeah, like I said before, me and the guys was talking, man. We need the Nextel Church back, man.

[Jeff]

Come on, man.

[Bishop]

What we gotta do to get the next tail church back? We trying to shoot a commercial for y' all for it.

[Jeff]

So come on, man.

[Bishop]

Tap in Boost Mobile Club 520.

[Jeff]

We locked in. Bring back my i530 with the side button. You know what I'm saying? Change that SIM card out and things get tricked. Ricky, you know the vibes. Shout out to Boost Mobile, man. Special episode. We in Vegas with it. Big three. We got a special guest. We gonna introduce him last. But to my far left, we got my dog, Bishop B hitting out the pearlies. How you what, Nasty?

[Bishop]

What's happening, Nasty? Excited for this one, man. We definitely got a legend. I don't be saying legend a lot, but this is one for show in the city for sure.

[Jeff]

Real legend. Now, we gonna talk about the shoe game later in the episode, OG but you know what I'm saying. We know you keep the feast, right? Nike, man, for sure. Black Air Force One. Have you ever seen those before?

[Gary Payton]

I have. I got a couple pair.

[Jeff]

Have you ever seen those with the white laces? Because that's his staple. That's his thing. He wear the black forces with the white laces.

[Gary Payton]

I don't with that, though. You know what I'm saying? With that, but it's all good, man. You can do that, though. You know what I'm saying? I'm going all black laces, man. You gotta go all black out, man. You gotta black that out like his tent out, man. You know what I'm saying?

[Bishop]

You see how you got that white trim in that shirt?

[Gary Payton]

But it'll work. It'll work. If you get a fit with the black pants with the black white stripe on it, you'll be cold in a moment. I'm gonna get him. What kind of sock, what color socks you gonna go?

[Bishop]

We're gonna do black. We're gonna do black with the white. Yeah, we don't want playing.

[Gary Payton]

Get it, get it.

[Jeff]

Yes, sir. We gonna tap in a manager, make sure we get GP the black ups the right way, for sure. To my right, my dog, Young Nacho. Yo, Tig, how you what?

[Young Nacho]

I'm chilling, bro. We got a legend of building like Behen said. It should be a good episode.

[Jeff]

Come on, man. We waiting for the show.

[Young Nacho]

We talk a lot of shit. We talk a lot of shit. It's gonna be a good one.

[Jeff]

Yes, sir.

[Gary Payton]

What shit talk?

[Jeff]

We gonna do all of the above, man. Listen, man, we got a special guest in the building, man. One of the best to ever do it. Hall of Fame. One of the codest. Man, you know what it is? The glove. GP in the building. Big Dog. We appreciate you sliding on us, man.

[Gary Payton]

Appreciate y' all, man. Y' all nephews me, man. You know I'm the og, man. But it's all good. I love, boy. All y' all, man. It's all good. You know what I'm saying? I like what y' all doing, man. Because we gotta get our black presence out here with all these avenues that we doing with these shows, man. We gotta be the ones that make people understand that we can do other things and play sports and all that other stuff, man. We can be out on this social media and do it, and y' all do it the right way. Give a message out to this stuff, man, and let's do it, man. You know what I'm saying? That's why I'm on here, man, because I want everybody to understand, man. We ain't just out here to be killing and all this crazy stuff, man. We out here for some positive stuff, for sure.

[Jeff]

Most definitely, man. Listen, now, this show we love, you know what I'm saying? Keep the feats right. You got some of the coldest shoes, basketball history, facts. I don't want to skip around or what's that moment, like, where GP Finds out he getting his own signature shoe.

[Gary Payton]

You know what? That's crazy, man. That just means, you know, you doing work. Yeah, you know you doing work. When a company like Nike could come and say, look here, man, we don't want you just to be in a shoe. We want you to have your shoe. And when they came at me and talked about the glove, man, and all that other stuff, and then they said they want me to be a part of making the shoe. You know what I'm saying? Usually they just give you a shoe and say, yo, this is it. They wanted me to be a part of the shoe and make it me. When I did the zipper on that thing, that's a glove. That's what you zip up and on your hand, and it fit like a glove, you know what I'm saying? So when they did that and they started giving me that opportunity, it was a big thing for me. But you gotta understand, we gotta represent them shoes, too. You gotta get out there and play that game the way it is. And I think they thought that. They knew that I played that game that way, so they gave me my own signature. But what was a good thing about it is that the shoe stuck and everybody loved it. You know what I'm saying? And I had to always think about it, what's going to make these people keep doing the shoe? Y' all don't get it. The women love the shoe. What more because they can throw them down and go down with the monkey paw when I had all the different colors in it. So the women was rocking them real tough, even with the men. But it was just great to have a shoe, man. You just got to be blessed to have a shoe, you know what I'm saying? Jordan can go with that. You know, Pippen could come with it. Penny Hardaway could come with it. You know, Ken Griffey. But it ain't too many. Bo Jackson. Ain't too many people that got shoes, man, and do they thing, you know, LeBron and all them dudes and in a different era, but in my era, them dudes are dudes that we had shoes, and we was pretty. We was pretty cold at it.

[Jeff]

Yeah. And to see us stand the test of time is the dope part. Cause I remember my brother coming home. I had a brother's tears, older than me, came home with him. And when you first unzipped them joints, you know what I'm saying? You see the red joints on the side? It's like, I gotta have him.

[Bishop]

Yeah, that was the kicker, though.

[Young Nacho]

Yeah, I was in Minnesota.

[Gary Payton]

For real?

[Young Nacho]

Yeah, I played in them in Minnesota.

[Bishop]

Did you zip them down?

[Young Nacho]

I warmed up with them down and I zipped them up.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah. Yeah. I seen Jeff going up on there, man. It was a pleasure to see some of the younger guys that come after me to wear my shoe, you know what I'm saying? And it'd be cool. When I seen you wearing them, I was like, shit, young guys is fucking with me, you know what I'm saying? And they got down. A lot of people will get air with my shoe, man, and it's cool. And I appreciate that, man. It's always. I always look up to the OGs, too. And then when you look up to the OGs and show respect like that, it makes us feel good, you know what I'm saying? And then we treat it another different way with the youngsters. And like I said, if it wasn't for Jeff, I wouldn't be on here, you know what I'm saying? I don't really get down with too many podcasts. I just get down with the people I love, and it's all good for that.

[Jeff]

Just to counter off that, you have any times you see somebody on your shoes, like, hey, hey, take them shoes off. Like, you. You can't wear my shoes like that. You put some work in.

[Gary Payton]

Well, when they giving that the money to me, I ain't tripping, you know what I'm saying? They can do it, man. You know what I'm saying? They paying for them. But you think about it, you'd be like, nigga, you really can't get out, you know what I'm saying? But it's cool, though, you know? But it just shows homage to me, you know what I'm saying? Even when I went into the cannabis business and everybody smoking one of my.

[Jeff]

Favorite strands, baby, strands, you know what I'm saying?

[Gary Payton]

I can't say, you know, don't smoke it, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I can't say that. I can't say, don't smoke it, man. You know what I'm saying? But it's good, man. And you look at some dudes, I be like, dude, you in my shooting. You ain't really getting it like that, you know what I'm saying? But it's cool, though, man, because they paying homage to me, man, for sure. And don't nobody ever grow up talking about, man, they gonna have a shoe, man, and everybody wearing their thing, man. I came out of Open California, man in the hood. And I didn't never think that I was gonna be who I am, you know what I'm saying? So it just. I just respect everything that people get, and they respect me, and it's good, man. I just think that a lot of people look up to me the way they look up to me, you know what I'm saying? Cause, like you said, people used to come to me and be like, man, I had your shoe when I was there. I had my mama take my last money, man. That was my Christmas gift. I'd be like, is that real? But it's a good feeling for me that I touch people's lives like that. You know what I'm saying? And that's great for me to hear that and see that.

[Young Nacho]

Most definitely.

[Jeff]

And especially in our community, like, the sneaker thing, especially, I grew up hooping, stuff like that. No matter what you had going on, it's a special moment. Even though it's just a shoe you just keep, you know what I'm saying? Wearing to keep your feet safe, it idolize the moment for you. So just for, like, to be an iconic moment in people's lives, that's dope as hell, man.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah. Yeah. And you know what I'm gonna do for y' all, man? Y' all gonna give me your sizes, man. And I'm sure I'm gonna send y' all some of the gloves, man. They're gonna be coming back out about another year, man. I'm gonna send y' all the black joints, man. I'm gonna say y' all. I'm gonna gift y' all, man, them things, man. Yeah, you know, I got a lot of them here, man, with the Miami Heat ones is here, man, at my house here. So I got them, man. So I'm gonna gift y' all that, man. It's all good.

[Young Nacho]

Most definitely.

[Jeff]

And we're gonna get off show. Sorry, I'm just. You know what I'm saying, this GP in the building, how it is, like, to, you know, you had your own shoe and then you had the Jordan, like, pes in Jordan now to see them re release, you know what I'm saying? Like, you had that flavor back then. What's that like? To see that, like, in every avenue of the shoe. You still just killing it.

[Gary Payton]

Let me tell you something. Y' all know I get at me and Jordan was we Clyde here. You know what I'm saying? We get at it, right? So during that time, man, it was one of them things, man, I wanted to Change some stuff that I was doing okay. I just got traded from the Seattle SuperSonics. A lot of things was going in my mind, man. I wanted to change my life. So Nike came at me, man, and Jordan, them came at me. And they. They came at me and J kid, they wanted to do an Oakland thing. They wanted both of us to get in their thing. I didn't really want to change shoes, but I said, man, let me try, man. Let me see how much funk I can get in. And this Jordan, because he was getting big, really, really big at this time in this shoe game. And so when they came, I told them, man, the only way I'm gonna wear em is they gotta give me some funk. And they gave me some funk, man. When I went to the Lakers and.

[Jeff]

The Bulks, you had some heat. Them the only 12s, I like.

[Gary Payton]

Them is hard.

[Young Nacho]

Them is hard.

[Gary Payton]

And they was giving me some wave colors. That was dope, you know what I'm saying? So I said, let's do it. And we did it. And I stayed for two years. Then I went back. When I went to Miami, I went back to my thing and won the championship in my things, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

So it was cool, man. I want to ask you because we've been seeing you around, you know what I'm saying? You always around basketball, which is super dope. What's that feeling like to see your kid like, you know what I'm saying? Have a great career in the NBA.

[Gary Payton]

You know what? I criticized my son so much, man. I just told him he wasn't going to be nothing. And he proved me wrong. Like what my daddy did to me. Now, what's so good about this is I can be a dad. At the first time, I was thinking about myself, how I played. And I want him to play that way. Y' all gotta understand, man, it's only one Gary Payton, and that's me. And I just named my son after me. That's it. So I told my son, I said, look here, man, I know you mad at me. We got into a situation where our relationship wasn't really, really cool because of that. And I just told him, look, when he made a decision to go to Oregon State behind me, that was a big deal for me, for him, because I really didn't think he was gonna do that. You know what I'm saying? So I tell him all the time, I said, man, look here, don't never think you gotta be like me. It ain't gonna work that way. I said, if you wanna be like, be anything with me, just get your picture up inside of me and let us be two legends together.

[Young Nacho]

That's hard.

[Gary Payton]

If you put your lay your picture aside me when I got my number retired at Oregon State, which he's gonna get his retired at Oregon State. Just put your picture up next to mine and then we ain't gotta say nothing. We can just say we two legends, you know what I'm saying? So don't never compare yourself to me. Cause y' all understand. I don't really know if he my kid anyway. Cause he got too much athletics. I think that's mailman, son, you know what I'm saying?

[Bishop]

As hell.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, that mother be ducking on. I be like, woo, yeah man, I'm a layup king. I ain't trying to do all that. But you know, he a athletic man. But the best thing I like about my kid is that when people come up to me, they don't talk about basketball, they talk about how good of a person he is, you know, how sweet he is and how good he is. Man, that makes a dad feel better. Cause I know I did what I did I had to do as a parent, you know what I'm saying? I know I wasn't around all the time, you guys being at all the stuff he wanted me be at because I was on his road doing the things I was doing and doing everything, other things, you know what I'm saying? But as I went home, I became a parent. So when I sit in them stands now, I look at myself as being a parent. It's more fulfilling for me to see him like that, you know what I'm saying? Instead of a basketball player. And that's the greatest feeling to be a dad.

[Bishop]

Nah, for sure, man.

[Young Nacho]

He is a competitor too though, you know, Defense is about effort. And I don't know if that trickled down from you, cause you a great defender, but he's one of those lockdown defenders. Like every time he subs in the game, you know he's going on the best player, he gonna compete. And it's been like that since Washington. Yeah, when I seen him when we was on Washington, we played against him. I'm like, man, don't play with the ball around him, he gonna steal it. That's something that you like put into his head. Like you gonna make. You gotta play defense.

[Gary Payton]

Jeff. That is because he was around me so much, okay? And I told him to be a two way defender is very valuable to anybody.

[Jeff]

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[Jeff]

Okay, have you heard about this? Last year, Degree changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. The fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back and degree listen and that doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. There's a reason why it's the number one man's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart, Target and try the OG Cool Rush for yourself. So we all made mistakes, right? But owning up to them is the right thing to do. But we all know Degree Cool Rush deodorant well. Last year they changed the formula and it did not go over well with the fans. Degree's whole thing. It turns up sweating odor protection when you turn up the effort. And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring back the OG formula. One guy even started online petition and degree Listen, they admitted they effed up and are bringing back that OG Cool Rush scent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back at Walmart, Target and other stores for under $4. There's a reason why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people are not happy when the recipe was changed. So listen, if you've never tried, it might be a good time to try. See what the fuss is about.

[Young Nacho]

Head to your local Walmart or Target and try the OG degree. Cool rush for yourself.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Unknown]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Gary Payton]

If you could go into a game and score 30 and then the guy scored 36, that's a wash. It's six points different. If you can go in a game and you score 30 and hold him to 20 or 16, you've won the game by 14 or 12 or 10. You feel what I'm saying? So you've done your job. So what he did was with his long arms, he became that thing. But his mentality is that he don't have to score. He can just lock you down. What I like about him is every time he get in the game, he always tell the person, let me guard the best person on here. And that's what I like about him. He guards always the best defender. I hate this game now because them dudes try to shy away from guarding the best defender when you know you the best player. So y' all both battle it out. But it is what it is. But that's what I love about him. You always want to guard the best defender.

[Jeff]

And that's interesting you say it because Behin just brought it up. We was talking about the playoffs, you know what I'm saying? It's like we don't get the main two players on the team even if they play the same position going at each other.

[Bishop]

Now I miss that shit, bro.

[Gary Payton]

I miss that too in my era, man. Cause you know me, if I play with Jordan, I'm guarding Jordan.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

You feel what I'm saying? I'm guarding him. If I'm like if I got to go if when Magic was there, I'm a guard. Magic. I don't care how big I was, I'm guarding that boy, John Stockton. I'm guarding him. I'm guarding. Anyway, Tim Hardaway.

[Bishop]

I'm guarding Kevin Johnson.

[Gary Payton]

Kevin Johnson, I'm guarding him. I'm not shaying away. I'm not straying away from them dudes. I'm going at the helmet. I want them to get at him. I want to get at them. Because I'm going to tell you, if I get you down here, you'll have a problem down there. Yeah, because I'm going to go at you in the offensive end.

[Bishop]

That's good for a dub, too. It was good for 20 plus too.

[Gary Payton]

I'm always going to get it to you because if I. Because I'm going to get you on the block and I'm going to tear your head off, I'm going to back you in, I'm going to take your dome off. You know what I'm saying?

[Bishop]

I think people forget that about you.

[Gary Payton]

Barbecue chicken. Like I said, you get. If I get you in the block, man, I'mma kill you. You know what I'm saying?

[Young Nacho]

Like, did you post up in high school?

[Gary Payton]

I didn't.

[Young Nacho]

I was like. Cause I don't know how you got to play, Jeff.

[Gary Payton]

Let me tell you how that went down, right? Two years in the NBA, I got drafted in 90, right? 89. 90, right. I was horrible for two years in Seattle, they wanted to trade me. Then they changed coaches and went to George Carl, and they brought in Tim Gurdovich, who came from here, from Tark. They told us that we don't work out with him in the summer in summer league, and we gotta go back to summer league. They're gonna trade us. So when he went, the first thing he did, he brought me in a suite just like this. And he had two TVs. He had one TV that had me playing as a Sonic for my two years, and one TV had me playing as Oregon State. He kicked the TV down with a Sonic and said, I don't give a shit. I don't want you playing like that, but you play like him. And next thing you know, I said, I'm there. I said, what do I have to do? He said, you just got to be at gym every day. Every day. I tell you, when I went in the gym, he said, I noticed something about you. You're very big, you're very athletic, and you got both hands. Because I'm a lefty, but I'm ambidextrous. He said, I Can go both ways. He said, I want you to post up players. So he started putting me on the block, banging me, banging me. And I started working at my game. I started working at the spin. And y' all know my spin was. Was the coldest, one of the coldest spins in the thing. I started spinning off people and feeling people, and he was like, you gonna be a beast. And then that's what had happened. It started posting up people. I started fading away. I started doing jump start, going in the middle. I started kicking it out. And then he said, ain't nobody gonna be able to stop you. And then I just start doing it.

[Jeff]

All the time, man. The dope part that you said is that happened after year two. We expect so many high draft picks are coming to league now from day one to be polished and produced. It takes time to get good in the NBA.

[Gary Payton]

Take time. Everybody's not gonna be good. You know what I'm saying? You come out because you gotta understand, everybody up here is good, too.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

You know what I'm saying? You playing against college players, with college players. How many good college players you gonna play against? You gonna play against one or two every now and then. And when you gonna play against them? In the NCAA tournament. That's it. So when you get to here, we the same skill as you, and we're probably even better than you. So now you gonna work against us all the time. So how you gonna do it? How you gonna be that way? And that's what it was. And then, you know, in my era, I was going against a lot of people, a lot of dogs, man. They had people at everything. The worst dog I ever played with and he was strong was Mitch Richmond. He changed Richmond because he got me away from being on the Sacramento, started putting him on me instead of point guards. And he was bigger, and he used to pound me a lot stronger. So he made me a little bit different. And then he can come down and score. See what I'm saying? So I was always taking the challenge to go play him, but he was wearing me down. So it was like, that's what I wanted to do, man. And I just wanted that challenge. Every day, I wanted a challenge.

[Bishop]

Who was your best point guard? Matchup.

[Gary Payton]

John Stockton, by far. He was just a little bit more crafty. Everybody thought he was dirty, but we was just stupid. We just didn't know how to play. It took me six years to figure him out. And then when I figured him out, when we beat him in the Western Conference finals, I figured him Out I figured out I can't keep doing the same thing I do with him and try to overmatch him. I gotta play the same way he played, and I gotta. Just. Every time I pound him, he'll fall and take a charge. Then I start saying no. I know he gonna think I'm gonna hit him twice, but I'm gonna hit him one time and I'm gonna step off and then shoot the jumper in his everything, and then face him up and go around him. He couldn't deal with me that day. And then when I figured him out, it was a little bit different. And then, you know, like, everybody know today I idolize him a lot. You know what I'm saying? He's, like one of my best friends. And, you know, and it was just, I. I really love playing against players like that. You know what I'm saying? Because it got me more of an IQ of the game. Yeah. And I'm John Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Rod Strickland. Rod Strickland, Mookie Blaylock, people like that. I wanted to play against, man. You know what I'm saying? Because they gave me more game and made me more of a better basketball player.

[Bishop]

Nah, for sure. For sure.

[Young Nacho]

We gotta talk about Oakland. Like we said, the Big Leo.

[Gary Payton]

You know what I'm saying?

[Young Nacho]

It's a lot of talented point guards come out of Oakland. Obviously, y' all had a conversation recently on another podcast, and y' all was talking about top guards in Oakland, and we brung up Dame Lillard, Jason Kidd, and you. And I went with Dame. That's my class. That's guys I grew up playing against. I think Simba said Simba.

[Bishop]

Simba might have.

[Young Nacho]

He said J. Kidd, he said jk. Simba said J.

[Jeff]

Kid.

[Bishop]

He said J.

[Young Nacho]

Kid. And everybody else says, you, right? And I seen what you said. Your response.

[Jeff]

I'd love for you to elaborate a.

[Young Nacho]

Little more on your response.

[Bishop]

It made sense to me. I get it. Cause he the OG of the shit.

[Jeff]

Nah.

[Young Nacho]

But will you really start? Cause obviously, Dane, my guy, you know, Dane, that's our guy. But when you start breaking down, like, hold on, I averaged 20 points. And simple was over there saying, like you did.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah.

[Bishop]

Cause people forget how you score, bro.

[Gary Payton]

What? You said people forgot how I score. People think about my defense.

[Bishop]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

Y' all gotta understand, man, scoring, like, for eight straight years, I was scoring over 20 points a game.

[Bishop]

You feel what I'm saying?

[Gary Payton]

And then I was getting down, locking down people, and then averaging eight assists and three steals. Gotta Understand? That's the way the game goes. And people don't understand. I scored over, like, 21,000 points.

[Bishop]

People forget that.

[Gary Payton]

They overlooked that. But what I say is about my two youngsters, right? Jay, I raised him. You know what I'm saying? Y' all gotta understand. Jay didn't start scoring until the end of his years of his career. Right. So if we break it down, Jay is a better passer than me.

[Bishop]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

You feel what I'm saying?

[Bishop]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

Defender, he's not, you know what I'm saying? Score. He's not. But he's a great IQ guy. You know what I'm saying? Dame is my youngster. You know what I'm saying? We can't put Dame in that situation right now because he's not fulfilled all his things that he's done. But he's made his mark on the NBA as shooting and scoring and stuff. Dame is a little bit different to point guard than us.

[Bishop]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

You know what I'm saying? Because his ERA came a little different. Yeah. It's about scoring here now. It's not about passing the ball, getting other people into the game. Jason was a better rebounder than both of us. You feel what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's a little bit different than what we do. Dame didn't steal the ball like we stole the ball. So it's a little different than what we're talking about, eras. It's an ERA thing. I get it. Everybody has their opinion about a lot of stuff. But I just say, where they from? From Oakland. You feel what I'm saying? We breed that, and that's just the way we're different. I'm the og, you know what I'm saying? So we. We did a little different. You guys didn't watch me as much, but you know who I am, you.

[Bishop]

Know what I'm saying?

[Gary Payton]

Y' all didn't watch me as much.

[Jeff]

Now we watched.

[Gary Payton]

It'll be like that, but it was like. He's talking about overall era is like you said.

[Jeff]

I feel like. Because I played, I played against it.

[Gary Payton]

Right. And I understand that. I always tell people it's about an era, what y' all did. That's why I don't like people to ask me about a goat, because a goat ain't gonna work for me. Because y' all didn't play the same time as each other. So I can't tell you about a goat. You know what I'm saying? All of us was good. You feel what I'm saying? So you just Think about stats. That's why people go with a goat. They think about stats. They say, oh, he won this many, he won that many. But did he play against him? Did he get down at him like that? No, they didn't. Doesn't too many play against Larry Bird, one of the coldest little motherfuckers I ever seen.

[Jeff]

Come on, Indiana Spiners, baby.

[Gary Payton]

What you talking about? You know what I'm saying? So I'm just saying, man, you know, we didn't play against Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul Jabbar, who couldn't stop Scott Hook and Will Chamber, everybody breaking Wilt Chamber's records.

[Young Nacho]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

Feel me? They breaking all his records. And they talk about, well, he was in the 60s or whatever. Well, he was 22, 21. Still was the same, you know what I'm saying? So we don't do goats here, man. I don't. You know what I'm saying? I don't do goats. So. But the point guard thing in Oakland, them three was pretty good. Us three was pretty damn good point.

[Jeff]

Guards that ever played basketball.

[Gary Payton]

And we. And two of us is in hall of fame and top 75. Dame is already on the top 75. He's gonna be in the hall of Fame. We're doing the thing, you know, Dame might be. Might score more points than both of us, but it is what it is, you know what I'm saying? And I think when they go to New York and say that stuff about the point guards, you know, we got the point guards over here and in.

[Young Nacho]

The Bay and Ms. West, I don't think it's another. It's a trio like that. La La got some point goers.

[Jeff]

But to all top 75, Baron Davis.

[Young Nacho]

But I'm saying they all top 75.

[Gary Payton]

The two made the top 75. BD is. Is my. Is my youngster.

[Young Nacho]

He nice.

[Gary Payton]

Which if he wouldn't have got hurt, he would have been, you know what I'm saying? But if we all three, if we'd have played them three, it have been a battle. Yes, but y' all gotta understand, though, Paul Pierce is from Oakland, California, too. He was born in Oakland, California.

[Jeff]

Okay, so we got another topic.

[Bishop]

Yeah, Paul.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

Paul Pierce grew up around. Around the corner for me. I grew up with his brother. Now, he moved from Oakland when he was 11.

[Jeff]

Thank you. I can't wait to talk to Paul now.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, I tell him, he don't like. He ain't no LA boy. He grew up, he's born and open when he's 11. So let, let, let me, let me break it down y' all. That's the way the game go. You feel what I mean? So yeah, so we got a lot of top 75s and hall of Famers, you know what I'm saying?

[Bishop]

So you was a OG.

[Colin Cowherd]

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[Jeff]

So we all made mistakes, right? But owning up to them, it's the right thing to do. But we all know Degree Cool Rush deodorant well. Last year they changed the formula and it did not go over well with the fans. Degree's whole thing, it turns up sweating or protection when you turn up the effort. And good thing it does because Cool Rush fans really turned up the effort to bring back the OG formula. One guy even started an online petition and degree listen, they admitted they effed up and are bringing back that OG Cool Rush sent back. And it's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's back at Walmart, Target and other stores for under $4. There's a reason why it's been the number one men's anti perspirant for the last decade. It's the same reason why people are not happy when the recipe was changed. So listen, if you've never tried, it might be a good time to try. See what the fuss is about.

[Young Nacho]

Head to your local Walmart or Target and try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself.

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[Gary Payton]

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[Colin Cowherd]

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[Gary Payton]

Who.

[Bishop]

Like shows you the way coming up in Oakland, like who put the ball in your hand?

[Gary Payton]

My daddy. Really man. For real, you guys? My daddy coached everybody. We talking about everybody. Every one of these guys we talking about. My daddy coached and touched hands on him. So they brought me into that. I really idolized George Gervin who is my stepdad now, like my step pops to now. But I was coming up in the hood in Oakland. My daddy was the one who put hands on me and touched me, you know, and he touched a lot of the, I mean Coach Jake, you know, Dame came a little too later because he was in a later era, but he played against my daddy and my daddy's teams and stuff like that. But that was it. You know, you gotta understand. We had B. Shaw, we had Antonio Davis, we had Greg Falls, ad. We had all them Cliff Robinson, a lot of players. Y' all forgot. Bill Russell was from Oakland, Paul Silas is from Oakland. We didn't have a lot of basketball players, you know what I'm saying?

[Jeff]

You know the dope part about that is that's kind of like how his pops is. Yeah, Coach T in the city, bro. Everybody heard about that system.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, I heard about his dad a lot, man. He reminds me of my dad a lot. Your dad reminds me of my dad a lot.

[Young Nacho]

Coach everybody, man.

[Gary Payton]

Literally.

[Bishop]

Train me the something.

[Gary Payton]

And my daddy did the same thing. So my. But, you know, it wasn't just about basketball. My pops. My pops used to go around the schools and he see dudes shooting dice over there. They used to say, oh, go there, Go. My Daddy's there. Go. Mr. Paige White Escalade. Whatever. Whatever, man. Let's jump over the fence and get up out of here, man. Because he gonna get at us. You know what I'm saying? My daddy put life in a lot of people, man. He taught him how to cook. He taught him how to do other things. And that's what I thought about why I went into coaching now. Now?

[Young Nacho]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

Why I coach the young guys now? Because I want to make them men. Everybody ain't gonna make it in basketball or profession. They got to understand that their life is better, more. More than sports. Their life is everything. Because they're going to be a parent at one time, too. And you got to raise somebody.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

And that's what I always tell them. And that's what I. That's why I got into coaching. Because I want to tell them that and understand that you can't always be who you want to be be, but you can be who you want to be in a different world, in a different aspect.

[Young Nacho]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

You know what I'm saying? You could be a lawyer, a doctor or whatever and make an impact on anybody's life. And we got to understand that. Yeah.

[Jeff]

And that's what show fatigue as well. Big him up. He coaches our alma mater, you know what I'm saying? So the impact you have on them kids, not even from a basketball standpoint, just to show, like, hey, you can be something in life or you can move, like, you can have these morals and be successful in other avenues. It's very important. Cause we don't got that much representation in our community.

[Gary Payton]

Absolutely. And that's what we gotta always be big on. When my daddy gave it to me, I think God told him to pass it on to me and keep it going, you know what I'm saying? Because we gotta catch these young kids. Cause this mental health stuff is really killing us right now. They don't know how to respond to people and say, yo, I know you helping me. Let me let you help me. Let me tell you about my situation. Because I can get a lot of these kids out of these situations and get them into some help programs and do the things that they have to do. But you. You have to give them some support. Because none of them really grew up like that. They only grew up with a mama. Me and Jeff grew up with a daddy. See, our daddy was. Was a big part in life. Most people didn't grow up with the pops like that. So we gotta understand that. And most of my guys who I deal with didn't grow up with daddies like that. They grew up with mamas where they can go on the streets and do whatever they wanted to do any time in their life. And my daddy was there to take. Take responsibilities for him. So we have to understand that. So we gotta give them that support. Gotta give it to em.

[Young Nacho]

That's a fact.

[Bishop]

I definitely want to ask you too, Sean Kent from our state. He's Indiana, you know what I mean?

[Gary Payton]

Alcort. Indiana.

[Bishop]

Indiana.

[Gary Payton]

That's where he from.

[Bishop]

Nah, for sure, you know, I know all of us want to ask you, man, how was that playing with him? Man, like, that was crazy.

[Young Nacho]

That was a crazy duo on NBA Jam.

[Jeff]

What iconic NBA Jams turned us out?

[Gary Payton]

Real shit. Real shit. Hey, listen, man, let me tell y' all about that. Everybody talk about this. Lob City. No disrespect to CP and them and all that, man. We was the first ones with Lob City. Me and Sean was the first ones to get it like that, you know what I'm saying? Playing with him for seven years was amazing. Me and him are partners now in the cannabis business and all that stuff. I see Shawn on a regular basis, man. And playing with him and becoming a friend with him is more important than that. That's how a chemistry comes together, and that's how we did it. And people just don't understand, I think. And I always tell Sean this. I said, if we wouldn't have got our ego messed up and his ego messed up, if he would have stayed with me more years, he'd be a Hall of Fame by now, you know what I'm saying? Because we'd have made a bigger dynasty than what we did. We were one of the two, one of the greatest duos to ever play with each other. And what I think, and I'm trying to get him in the hall of Fame now for what he's done with me, you know what I'm saying? So I just think I had a blessing to play with a person with that much talent, because I can just throw the ball up to him and he will go get it anywhere. But people don't understand how good he was with the basketball and shooting in the midst. In the mid. In the mid range game. And his back to the basket. He was a beast. You know what I'm saying? And so people didn't really understand that about how much freak ability he had.

[Bishop]

Yeah, man.

[Gary Payton]

You feel what I'm saying? He had a freak ability that nobody really, really knew that he had. Which, if you see it every time y' all watch our highlights with all our games, he. He did some stuff that was so incredible to me, man. I used to be like, wow, you know, I'm playing with this guy, this dude.

[Jeff]

I used to see them lives you're doing.

[Gary Payton]

Yeah, yeah. I usually. He used to always tell me. He used to always tell me, man, give me a challenge today, man. Throw that. Throw it somewhere where I don't. You don't think I'm gonna go get it and I'll just throw it up there and he'll go get it.

[Bishop]

And was that instant chemistry, though? It was with him.

[Gary Payton]

It was. What happened was in 89, I was in college, and he was just coming out, right? And Sonny's drafted him, and they wanted a point guard. And then Bernie Bickerstaff seen me and he said, I think this is the kid that we gonna get. So he started telling Sean to watch me, and Sean started watching me when I was in college. It hit me every now and then, and then they didn't have a chance to get me at all. You know what I'm saying? And then all of a sudden, they fooled around and didn't make the playoffs and then got in the lottery and their balls was a chance of what Dallas was this year to get the Cooper Flag stuff.

[Bishop]

Oh, shit.

[Gary Payton]

Their chances were 12% to get the number two pick or the number one pick. And they fooled around and got the number two pick.

[Bishop]

Wow.

[Jeff]

Oh, so you had the script. Okay.

[Gary Payton]

And I knew I wasn't gonna go no lower than one or two. And New Jersey wanted me, but they wanted a point guard and a big man. And Derrick Coleman was coming out.

[Jeff]

Yeah.

[Gary Payton]

And then Kenny Anderson was gonna come out next year. So I went and told him, don't draft me. You can get Kenny the next year. So I wanted to go to Seattle, so they drafted Derrick Coleman, and then I went number two to Seattle. Yeah.

[Bishop]

So he was a part of the bullshit earlier.

[Young Nacho]

That shit ain't real, bruh. Ain't no way.

[Jeff]

Dallas.

[Young Nacho]

Get that pig, man.

[Gary Payton]

It happens, man. Hey, man, they crucified my boy Nico, man. Man. Because he traded Luca, man. But then all Of a sudden, the bad luck went even worse when they made all the mamas, all them injuries. And then all of a sudden, big bang, bang.

[Young Nacho]

He out of the hit.

[Gary Payton]

Bingo.

[Unknown]

Long.

[Gary Payton]

I went into of them old crazy liquor stones, man, and paid $10 and got a lottery. And what I do, I hit. I hit for that billion me and got the boy. And got that boy, boy.

[Jeff]

Man, I listen. That's one of my favorite NBA moments, man, that when they show that draft room say yes, I'm like, they cheated, man.

[Gary Payton]

Ain't no way it's supposed to happen, bro.

[Young Nacho]

There's no way.

[Jeff]

Ain't no way it's supposed to happen.

[Gary Payton]

Bingo. I knew he was going to a whack team, a team that was going to be losing. And all of a sudden I said, man, you hit the lottery. You at the lottery and hit the lottery.

[Bishop]

And then those teams are at the bottom of the lottery.

[Gary Payton]

No, he. Their chances were zero. Oh, yeah, I know.

[Bishop]

But no facts.

[Gary Payton]

Do you understand? It was at 0.8 for Dallas to get that pick. You understand me?

[Jeff]

They went to the finals last year.

[Bishop]

That wasn't supposed to.

[Gary Payton]

They was in the finals. They lost to Boston. You feel what I'm saying?

[Bishop]

So poor Utah.

[Gary Payton]

It is what. But you know what I feel for my boy J. Kidd as a head coach. Love it. And then I feel for Nico, man. Nico was my rep at Nike. That's like a little brother to me, man. He always looked up to me like that. So I feel for him because what he took, you know what I'm saying? People don't understand. He's the president, general manager. He can't make them calls on his own. Our owner has to make that call. He can't just say, I'll make the call. Cause he's going to get. He's going to get fired. So all you fans out there messing at him like that, get up out of here with that. It wasn't his call, man, to make that decision. He made a decision on what he was told to do or what it was supposed to be done. And that's what they did. So I'm happy for him. What's going to happen? You get Kyrie back after this injury, man, which he'll probably come back in January or something like that. And they'll be rolling. They'll make a thing ad come back what it is. Get all the guys get healthy. Because if they whole team get healthy, it's gonna be a beast. Yeah, Dallas gonna be a beast.

[Jeff]

Speaking of the finals, we all watched the last Dance. I want to ask you, on this show, how did it feel knowing you going to the finals against Michael Jordan in 96?

[Gary Payton]

That was great, man. You remember I got on. I got on cover of Sports illustrating saying, mission impossible. I had just won the defensive player of the year, first point guard to ever do it. And it was just something, well, people didn't know. I got hurt. I tore my calf muscle and I really couldn't move. What I did was I went in there and they found a solution. They found a little miracle thing to do. It got my leg better. I wrapped it up a little bit. And then all of a sudden, it's a miracle, you know. So then I started playing and I started feeling better and better and better. Then we got down too much, and then I just started saying, let me guard. And he was averaging 33 at the time. And then I started making it a pest for him. I started making it a pest for him, and then I broke it down to 23. And then what coaches do, they knew I started becoming a problem, so they had to make to solve the problem. What do you do? You solve the problem. So Jordan was taking it personal with me, which I wanted to happen. And then, you know, Phil Jackson said, no, let me put somebody bigger on him and distract him and make it a problem for him. And he put Pippen on me. And Pippen is a bigger player than me. He was six, seven. He could be. He was mobile. And it was taking a toll on me, took a real toll on me to try to score and guard Jordan at the same time. And it took a toll on me. And then by the time the sixth game came, we had broke it down to 3, 2. That six game came on, I got a little fatigue, you know what I'm saying? And they took us out, you know what I'm saying? It is what it is. It just took us out of the.

[Jeff]

Game, but it was just good bumps, like who fans to see that. That's a hell of a matchup, like to hold your own against one of the players that we called to go, like you said, in that situation, that just gotta be dope for you. In that moment, it's like, I'm here.

[Gary Payton]

You know what? It was easy for me because of my mindset. I thought it was always. I wanted to play against him all the time. You remember, they were 72 and 10. We were 64 and 18. Y' all forgot that we were the number two team in the league at the time. And we beat him one. We beat him out of that one. 10 out of that 10. So it was like. I just wanted the competition, man. I just wanted to play the best, you know what I'm saying? I don't stray away from nobody, man. When I played, my daddy always told me, man, if your leg ain't broken, it ain't off. Get on the floor and get it. And that's what I did. I just went and got it. And he was always the one to take the competitive to me. I loved it.

[Young Nacho]

Yeah, well, how did you respond when you see him laugh like, I know you a competitor, you probably was laughing, too.

[Gary Payton]

I laughed right back. I said, it is. I wouldn't even. Jeff, I wouldn't even respected him if he didn't say that. I wouldn't even respected him to say anything like that, unless. Cause it's his documentary, of course. I don't care, man. We all knew what the game was and how it was. Whoever. Whatever is good. We knew what it was.

[Young Nacho]

Nah, man.

[Bishop]

Most definitely, man.

[Jeff]

Listen, man, OG we are honored, man. We appreciate you pulling up on us, man. It's been a pleasure. Listen, man, we can't wait. You got some things in the works, man. We can't wait to see what that happens, man. We ain't gonna say too much. You know what I'm saying?

[Gary Payton]

Yes, sir. You know I got it all getting it, man. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna get it, man. Anytime y' all want me on this 520 club, I'm with y' all, man. Do a club 520, man. Y' all doing a great job. I told y' all, respect y' all to the fullest, man. This is what I want to see. And young guys like y' all, man, get it, man. Do what y' all want to do, man. And always, man, set a mark for yourself, man, always, when you leave, so. Especially with you, Jeff. You play in the league. Do your thing, man. Keep doing this with your boys. Hook it up, man. Do it anytime y' all need me.

[Jeff]

Holla.

[Young Nacho]

That's how it is.

[Jeff]

Shout out to boost mobile club 520. We out.

[Young Nacho]

I appreciate it.

[Gary Payton]

The volume.

[Jeff]

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[Unknown]

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[Colin Cowherd]

To an iHeart podcast.