Club Shay Shay - Dave Portnoy Part 1

Summary

Club Shay Shay - Dave Portnoy Part 1 Released May 14, 2025

Introduction and Background

In this episode of Club Shay Shay, NFL legend Shannon Sharpe welcomes Dave Portnoy, the founder and operator of Barstool Sports, to discuss his journey in building a multimillion-dollar media empire. Portnoy shares insights into his entrepreneurial spirit, the origins of Barstool Sports, and the challenges faced along the way.

Early Days of Barstool Sports

Portnoy reminisces about the humble beginnings of Barstool Sports, which started as a four-page newspaper distributed in Boston. Despite lacking a clear vision, he was driven by a desire to enjoy his work and avoid hating his job.

“So I didn't have the vision. That's the easy answer. I just didn't want to hate my job. When I woke up, I knew I wanted to try my own thing.” ([02:17])

Portnoy recounts the aggressive distribution methods, including handing out newspapers on subway platforms and street corners, aiming for maximum reach.

“We had a circulation of 30,000, probably at the height. So I'd wake up, you see it, any city corner and just hawking papers outside the Garden.” ([02:58])

Advertising Strategies and Growth

A pivotal moment came when Barstool began featuring local women in bikinis, inspired by Maxim’s success. This strategy significantly boosted advertising interest from major brands by attracting a larger male audience.

“When they saw pretty girls, like, if you know where the girls are, the guys will follow. So it actually opened doors advertising wise.” ([05:01])

Portnoy also experimented with different distribution personnel, initially using homeless individuals, which proved ineffective. Switching to models in jerseys improved engagement without teaching him much about advertising beyond knowing his target audience's preferences.

“It was just really expensive to do it. But you know that, that was no lesson.” ([05:39])

Building and Managing Talent

Portnoy emphasizes the importance of identifying and nurturing talent within Barstool. He highlights the successful recruitment of individuals like Pat McAfee and Alex Cooper, who have become significant media personalities.

“It's like a sports team SNL model or something like that. Like your agent there, Michael Klein, I think he owes me his whole life, if we're being honest.” ([26:33])

Managing a diverse and growing team of around 400 employees, Portnoy describes the workplace as chaotic, competitive, and sometimes petty, yet it thrives on creativity and authenticity.

Relationship with ESPN and Media Conflicts

A notable part of the conversation centers on Barstool’s contentious relationship with ESPN. Portnoy discusses a cease and desist letter from ESPN, viewing it as a catalyst that inadvertently boosted Barstool’s authenticity and popularity.

“It was 100% a mash of that. Like that's what we're doing. And then we posted, you know.” ([20:22])

He criticizes traditional sports media for being overly polished and politically correct, contrasting it with Barstool’s unfiltered and genuine approach.

“We didn't think about that. We didn't plan what my studio looks like. That's what my life looks like. So it's just we didn't think about that.” ([19:25])

Business Operations and Company Culture

Portnoy shares insights into the operational side of Barstool, including early financial struggles, creative marketing tactics like selling merchandise through newspapers, and the importance of adapting to digital trends.

“We need to make money. That's it. Like, yeah, I told you in the beginning of the interview, we had the homeless guys selling shirts...” ([42:31])

He also touches on the company's approach to contracts and negotiations, often favoring reverse strategies where Barstool builds talents who later secure lucrative deals elsewhere, albeit sometimes leading to internal tensions.

“We find the guys, build them up, and then they leave as opposed to like getting them at the top because you pay the premium.” ([30:17])

Challenges and Future of Sports Media

Portnoy expresses his belief that the future of sports media lies in authentic, internet-born platforms like Barstool rather than traditional, linear media companies. He critiques the outdated practices of established networks and predicts a continued rise for digital-first entities.

“100%. I mean, look at you. I mean, if you would think that you could say some of the things that you say... that's a relatively recent development...” ([23:31])

Conclusion

Throughout the conversation, Dave Portnoy underscores the significance of authenticity, adaptability, and relentless hustle in building a successful media empire. His candid reflections provide valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs and media professionals alike.

Notable Quotes:

• “We didn't have the vision... we were just always really quick and kind of moving and following trends.” ([02:17])
• “If you know where the girls are, the guys will follow.” ([05:01])
• “We didn’t care if an advertiser is like, we're going to drop. It's like, all right, see, like we're going to just keep doing us.” ([07:28])
• “We hire people we think are talented, let them run wild.” ([18:57])
• “It's all about building trust with your audience.” ([16:27])
• “We treat you well. But I can't really begrudge any of the... because I do the same thing.” ([58:45])

Closing Remarks

This episode offers an in-depth look into Dave Portnoy's strategic mindset and the evolution of Barstool Sports from a local newspaper into a dominant force in digital media. Listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and triumphs involved in creating a modern media empire.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast, Shaq With Angel Reese. When he's like, I want to see her playing in her underwear and like running up. If I said that, I'd be in jail.

[B]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[A]

In jail. All my life been grinding all my.

[B]

Life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price Want a slice, got to roll a dice that's why all my life I be.

[A]

Grinding all my life all my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle.

[B]

Paid the price Want a slice, got the roll of dice that's why all.

[A]

I've been grinding all my life.

[B]

Hello. Welcome to another episode of Club Shay Shay. I am your host, Shannon Sharpe. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shay Shay. Stopping by for conversation on a drink today is one of the most influential people in modern sports. He created a company that's now worth more than a half a billion dollars. A pioneering force in the new age of digital media. A business mogul and a trailblazer. A media magnet and an icon. A social media media star and an influencer. A bold, no filter media star, outspoken personality, a powerhouse spokesman, host, producer, writer, director, philanthropist. A pizza aficionado. University of Michigan alum, A wealthy entrepreneur who built a multi platform empire. Finder, founder and operator, owner sports and pop culture company Barstool Sports. El presidente Dave Portnoy.

[A]

Quite the intro. Thank you.

[B]

Appreciate you, man.

[A]

Yeah, no, I appreciate that intro. I like that, bro.

[B]

I got, I got. We got a toast, bro. I got to toast you, man. For you to be able to do what you've done, I mean, for you to have the vision and to see it through. Cheers to you.

[A]

Cheers. I said I wasn't gonna drink this, you know, by the way, I don't like any, but I'm doing it.

[B]

None of this better, but I'll let you tell me for yourself.

[A]

I probably won't have it for a little time after this. Let's say that I'm more on like the high noon speed, but when in.

[B]

Rome, do as the Romans. Yeah, bro. Thank you. You built Barstool into a half a billion dollar empire. Started off doing four page newspapers, which is the dying dynasty. How did you have the vision and the forethought to do what you did?

[A]

So I didn't have the vision. That's the easy answer. I just didn't want to hate my job. When I woke up, I knew I wanted to try my own thing. But if Barstool, if I was making 60 grand a year working for myself, I would have been happy. But anyone who said they had vision back then is probably lying. Because, you know, we started as a newspaper before MySpace existed. Facebook, TikTok. So for anybody to know what the Internet was going to be, they're lying. We were just always really quick and kind of moving and following trends, but I had no idea it would turn into this.

[B]

You handed out newspapers on the subway platform street corners of Boston, yelling at people. How many papers did you think you handed out a day?

[A]

Probably 5 to 10,000. We had a circulation of 30,000, probably at the height. So I'd wake up, you see it, any city corner and just hawking papers outside the Garden. I grew up in Boston. Cell stations, subways, just working.

[B]

Because a lot of times people get. They take it and throw it on the ground.

[A]

Oh, that happened. I mean, I count that. If you took it, that counts. Yeah. You didn't ask how many ended up. But if you're going on the subway. Right. You're just looking for anything to write. So you get as many hands on it as you can.

[B]

Todd McShay started out as one of your early writers and you custom built websites and the newspaper went digital. How did you know? Like, Todd, how did you decide who you were going to pick to write and who are you going to start staffing?

[A]

So I went to high school with McShay.

[B]

Oh, okay. Okay, okay, okay. That definitely helped.

[A]

That was a hard ass choice. Yeah. I was in his wedding, so we weren't paying anybody when we started.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He got involved in sports before I did, so he already. He maybe just starting on ESPN a little bit. So he just helped on the side.

[B]

Right. Wow. So is it true that you started putting women on the cup, bikinis on the COVID and that's when the newspaper kind of took up.

[A]

That is true. So there's a photographer in Boston, he's like, have you ever thought about putting a girl? Maxim was huge at the time. Yes.

[B]

Yes. So they used to have big parties at the Super Bowl. I don't know if they still do that.

[A]

They still do it, I think, but.

[B]

Not to the level.

[A]

Yeah. When I. Back in the day, Maxim was like the it party.

[B]

It was.

[A]

Yeah. So he. He reached out to me, the photographer, he's like, have you ever thought of putting local women maximum. You put. There are sleds.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So we started putting. I'm like, no, I haven't. But if you want to do the photography for me, do it. Knock yourself out. And he came over, did it. It was a local girl. Well, that started getting people's attention I'm like, let's do it again. And that kind of, you know, what it really did for us back in the day, like Bud Light, Miller Lite, they, they, they paid no attention. I started barstool. I'm like, oh, we'll get all sports advertising. We didn't. When they saw pretty girls, like, if you know where the girls are, the guys will follow. So it actually opened doors advertising wise. Wow.

[B]

I read that you had models handing out the newspapers. Started having models hand out the newspaper. Before that you had homeless people actually handing out the newspaper.

[A]

Yeah. So the first, first week we launched homeless people Labor Ready was the name of the company. And I was driving around and they were just drunk, not paying attention. They didn't do, they didn't do dick. They didn't do anything. So we fired them after one week. And then I'm like, you know what, if I, if you're a guy walking off the subway, would you take it from a pretty girl or a homeless and pretty girls. So we lasted that for maybe a month. So put girls in little jerseys and handed them out.

[B]

During that process, what did that teach you about advertising?

[A]

Well, that wasn't rocket science. It didn't teach me anything. But I knew, I, I knew guys like pretty girls. Like, you're going to take a newspaper. So didn't teach, teach me really anything about that. It was just really expensive to do it. But you know that, that was no lesson.

[B]

But let me ask you quick, ask you this. Have you listened to your fan base over time? Because you said the pretty girl, pretty. The guys follow the pretty girls wherever guys are. That means advertisers are going to come because those are the guys that drink the beer, eat, you know, take the products or bet or do whatever.

[A]

Yeah, you, I, I have listened to It's a fine line because I'm sure, you know, there's the, the people who hate you and don't like you are often the loudest.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You suck at this. You're not good at that. So I don't let that bother me. But the beauty of what we did and newspaper and more Internet. It's like the Internet doesn't lie. You see the numbers, they're going up. So I'll always follow that. As much as people like the chirping and noise somewhat, I trust my gut a lot.

[B]

Right. How did you know not being politically correct, you could win doing that now over the last decade. But barstool is way older than a decade. How did you know that? Not saying, not doing, always the right thing could be a win for Dave.

[A]

Yeah. So it. That's how I am. Like, I'm this. Maybe in northeast, like Boston. Like, I. I'll say, do whatever, and I. I'm fine. I'll stand on two feet and stand with it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It really wasn't intentional. Like, it's just me being me and us being us. But we did get to a point where we built this loyal following, and. And it's like, I knew I had them, and if we were honest with the audience, they'd follow us anywhere. So that was always an advantage.

[B]

And that means that there's a lot of people out there that doesn't want to be politically correct, that have to be politically correct, but they have someone that, you know what? He's not politically correct. I like him. I like what he's doing. I like what he's saying.

[A]

So we always had the advantage. I didn't have a boss, like, so, you know, if you're in a corporate world, it's great to think one way want to be. But if your boss is like, you know what? You're going to get fired. You can't do it. That's a lot of different pressure. We didn't have it, and we didn't belong. We weren't beholden to advertising. That was also huge. So advertisers can be like, hey, you got to watch what you say. We had early barstool. Our money was coming from our audience, selling T shirts, doing events. So we didn't care if an advertiser is like, we're going to drop. It's like, all right, see, like, we're going to just keep doing us.

[B]

There were not a whole lot of models out there that you could follow. So who did you look up to that says, you know what? I kind of like their business model. I kind of like the way they do things.

[A]

The early guy who I looked up to is Bill Simmons. So I'm a Boston guy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is before he went to espn. His writing style was more like, this is interesting. I reached out to him, try to get him, invest in barstool, be part of it. Obviously, never happened. But it wasn't so much a business model. Like, I came from a business side. So I was always like, if I can sell ads, do this, I just want to enjoy my life. But I wasn't looking around and be like, that's the model. I. I think we became the model. Not on purpose, but there wasn't much like us.

[B]

Well, I was kind of going to think you was going to say Howard Stern, because he would kind of say.

[A]

And we do get compared to that. I never looked. I was never a big Stern fan growing up. So what? But we get that comparison and got it throughout the years. All right.

[B]

You know, I heard that you're kind of like a combination between ESPN and Playboy. Is that a. Is that a fair assessment?

[A]

Yeah, it's an interesting assessment. I mean, we have. We have the tna. I mean, espn. I think ESPN has moved more. More probably to our side of the street in terms of, like, letting people fly. And even, like, I saw, you know, and when you. And, like, no, it was Stephen A. No, it was you and Herbie going at it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's Barstool, right? Like, we'll let him fight it out. Let it in. I couldn't even tell him, like, do these guys really not like each other? Is this, like a show that's barstool?

[B]

Even. Even. Even teammates. Like. Like, barstool. Like, I'm feeling like. And we're going to get into later. Like, when you had busting with the boy, you had part of my take, and you had this one and that one, and you all on one umbrella. I see us. See us as teammates. You would let them take shots.

[A]

Oh, my God. We each other a lot. The most vicious internal.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And, like, I mean, I just got here. Like, I just watch a Taylor One clip at the super bowl, and he's talking to Patrick Mahomes. He's like, hey, we're leaving Barstool. They are leaving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's like, so you'll come on our podcast right now? I mean, to me, I'm. That to me is like, he. He let. He basically put Patrick Mahomes in his mouth. Like, he basically was like, let me roll over. Pet your belly, and I'll go out. We go at each other. But that. And it's real. People think it's fake. In the end, we're all one team. But, yeah, we attack each other.

[B]

Is it true that early advertisers, basically, they were offshore illegal betting sites that weren't legal in America. So you, like, reached out and got those dollars.

[A]

So I've always loved gambling. So before I started Barstool, I actually flew to Vegas, interviewed in casinos. Like, how do I get in this industry? And I used to bet. So I talked to these offshore casinos, and, you know, how do I get involved? They said, create the newspaper. We'll advertise in it. And that was the early advertising we had that got us, like, when we launched no girls, no nothing. It was just really fantasy sports, that type of thing. It allowed. We pre sold the ads for a year, two years party poker and we morphed after that. But yeah, that, that was our early advertising.

[B]

Did you ever get frustrated? Did you ever think that this possibly couldn't work?

[A]

I went, I got a job about six years and I took a sales job, drove work there at lunch. I'm like, I cannot, I can't do barstool and give it a chance and do this. So one day, lunch, drove home, never went back. But I mean I wasn't. We didn't make money for a decade.

[B]

Right? Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how did you get by grinding?

[A]

Like I moved in with my in laws.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We had no rent, like in just as paycheck to paycheck, trying to survive. But it was literally like nothing at the time.

[B]

Did your wife like Dave?

[A]

She made me get the job. She made me get the job. To her credit, she stood by me and it always felt in my gut this thing's grow, like there's something here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But to turn the corner and actually do it took a long time.

[B]

Did you create fake, fake ads?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To get rival coming.

[A]

Like I was early, like Morton Steakhouse, I put in arrival like Flemings, Mortons, Chris. Yeah. They call they and the actual place would call me. Like it was Fleming's. There's a steakhouse in Boston. They'd be like, we didn't advertise in your paper. Why are you in there? It's like, oh, my sales guy quit. I don't know what happened. And then we take it out. But the thought was, hey, if Morton sees Flemings, the Morton's want to get in there, right? Yeah, we did that. I would do anything, I would do anything to try to get somebody in the paper.

[B]

But you also created fake emails with extra people. Like hey, we got a big ass down.

[A]

Correct. So do you want someone to advertise? I know that I'm the head writer, I'm the founder, I'm the sales guy, the marketing guy. So I had like 10 different aliases. Yeah.

[B]

Oh my goodness. Bad. But it seemed like you had a plan. Like even though it wasn't successful early, you had a plan and you had a fortitude to stick to it, that you know what, it's going to click. I just got to give it time.

[A]

Yeah. I keep going back and some people say I'm being a humble. I, I thought it was working. Did I ever dream it would be something like this? Like I Think I'm a smart enough guy and a way to monetize. And if you really hustle and work your ass off, you can probably carve out some sort of living for yourself.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did I know that the Internet would hit right when I needed to hit? Did I know that, like, social media would hit and things like right time, right place, right guy, all those things.

[B]

How much would you say it cost you to start Barstool?

[A]

Oh, I'm always not much. Maybe 30 grand, max. That's for. I had to buy the racks. That was the only expense. Or the racks to put the newspapers in.

[B]

Let me ask you a question. How did you start. How did you come up with the name Barstool?

[A]

So Barstool Sports was supposed to mean. And this is early Internet 1.0. I look for websites that were allowed. It's supposed to mean anything that a guy would talk about sitting at a bar watching sports.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That was what it's supposed to mean. So I went through, like 10 names, and that was the one that was available.

[B]

Did anyone invest in Barstool besides yourself early on? Maybe your parents, maybe siblings or anybody like that?

[A]

Parents helped with the news racks, and that was it. And we had no outside money till 2016. We started 2004.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. That's a. That's a very long time not to make a whole lot of money. A lot of people probably after 12 years gonna give it up.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, we started around. By 2016, we were doing pretty well. But yeah, it. I had a normal job again, I would rather work for myself, not make as much and then hate waking up and hate what I do.

[B]

So you didn't. You didn't really turn a profit. You started in 2004, so you kind.

[A]

Of turned the profit 2010, maybe 11 around there.

[B]

So you started making good money. Not. I mean, it's not no retirement money. Good.

[A]

Good enough. We did a concert tour in 2010.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We. We had a kid who is. Sam Adams was his name. He was like a kind of local rapper basically guy. And we had never been outside metro Boston. We did a 10 tour of colleges like URI UMass, and we're going to frat basements. I basically wanted to say, do people know who we are?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

UMass. The Mullen Center. They called me and they're like, hey, what is this concert you're doing? Keep in mind, I'm going to frat basement to do it. They're like, we're getting calls for this concert you're doing. It's like, yeah, I don't know. We're going to frat. They're like, would you ever think of doing it in the arena? It's like, I can't afford that. We won't do it. It's like, well, what if we set it up away very little risk. So if you're willing to do it, fine. We sold out in five minutes. Like Soldier Reno. That was when it kind of clicked. It's like, there may be something going on here that I'm not totally aware. Showed up these campuses, signs on the roo. It was crazy.

[B]

So let me ask you a question. When did you know Barstool could become a legit company that you know, like.

[A]

I got something probably that tour around the 2010, 2011, and then I'm probably making seven figures by 2012, 2013. It was hard to, like, if you wanted to advertise with us, you almost had to know somebody. Like, you weren't selling. You had to fight. Like, I remember we had. We were in this fantasy space and the gambling draft. I've had DraftKings. I met with, like, the founders of DraftKings way back when, FanDuel. And you had to know somebody to get me on the phone because we were just happy. We're like, all right, we're doing well. We're happy where we're at. But around then, I knew we were here to stay.

[B]

How. How did you develop this loyal, rabid.

[A]

Fan base day after day? So when we started the company, I used to blog 10 to 15 times a day. Like every 45 minutes, something new up. We're on top of sports, on top of everything. And you just build a trust with your audience. If they're senior, every day, they start just becoming almost like your friend. Like, when I see our fans, they think they know me. So you just build that up over decades. You get a very loyal core audience.

[B]

So basically, you would say that college is where you kind of, like, grew. It's like when you did this little college tour and you went to UMass and you had that arena and you sold it out. So you would say probably college. Would you say college kids, early 20s?

[A]

Yeah, it was everything. So I started this thing when I was like 25, 26. I'm 47 now. So it spans all ages in different peoples of their lives. Like, we have people have kids, we have new college kids. Just depends where you get us. I think the. The.

[B]

They were college kids, but they're husbands and fathers now.

[A]

Yeah, it's everything. And even, like, when I started as young professionals. There was a lot of people who just graduated and now went to the workforce and like that.

[B]

What do you think? College kids? Why does barstool resonate so much with college kids?

[A]

I don't really know. I mean, we were talking about college age. We were doing like raves at college parties. And I mean, even now we have like handles on social media that just cover that college. But obviously they, they like unfiltered and we're unfiltered.

[B]

Right. Frat parties. You had concerts.

[A]

Were you in a frat for about 10 seconds at Michigan. So I, I, I wasn't big into the hazing part of it.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

I like the Russian part of it. When they're kissing your ass and it like, go get me a beer. That's not really me. So I didn't, I didn't, I was gone quick.

[B]

How did you know? But you didn't want to be a part of that. But how did you know the fraternity culture so well?

[A]

I didn't, I mean, the, the fraternity. I. And sometimes people say different. I don't know. That's fraternity culture as like human nature. Like guys, like hot girls, guys are going out to try to get laid. Like a lot of that is part of what we were doing talk about in parties. But it was everything. I mean, we talk just as much about that as anything else.

[B]

It seems like yet at. I don't know if you still feel this way, that you were the director, the antithesis of what espn. How did you know to like, create something, say, you know what, whatever they do, we're going to do the exact.

[A]

It wasn't on purpose like that. You know, I guess people may look at, I mean, espn and we've been doing it for so long. ESPN actually changed a bunch of times probably since we've been doing this last 20 years. It wasn't, they're just more buttoned up in, in early barstool. Anybody who came from a network to us, we had some issues with because they, they needed a producer to tell them to say this and that, and we don't do that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're, you're, we hire people we think talented, let them run wild.

[B]

You off the cuff, bro?

[A]

Yeah. It's like, you know, we're not going to tell you what to say and you're going to love what you're talking about. So it wasn't, we weren't trying to be the different. And I had no problems with ESPN till we had problems with espn because.

[B]

You look at espn they got fancy studios. Guys are normally buttoned up. They're normally, you know, suit, tie. You guys are in very informal, very casual T shirts, blue jeans, shorts. Hey, hey. I'm more interested in what you say, not what you wear. That was always your.

[A]

So I heard a story that ESPN once had a meeting about us when we're on the come up and it's like, how do we be more authentic? Like barstool. It's like, well, you lost. Like you are having a meeting on how to be authentic. There was nothing. We are. I'm not planning what my studio looks like. That's what my life looks like. So it's just we didn't think about that. We didn't care about fancy cameras. We didn't have fancy cameras. We had idiots. And it almost. The bigger we got, the more I had to keep an eye. Like, we don't want to look polished like espn. Like, that's not who we are. Just because you can do it doesn't mean we want to do it. It wasn't an early thought.

[B]

It's pardon my take a playoff. Pardon the interruption. First take. So you got pardon and take. And so boom, boom.

[A]

Espn. So stupid. They sued us. First day, got sued. They went through, sent the cease and desist. Best thing they could have done for us. It was 100% a mash of that. Like that's what we're doing. And then we posted, you know.

[B]

Oh, you posted it.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

That's the worst thing you could do.

[A]

To send the letter. Idiots.

[B]

Because you're going to post it and then all of a sudden everybody's going like, well, let's see what's going on.

[A]

Yeah, they couldn't again, we've had that multiple Goodell's been one. But that was perfect. Ye. Yeah. And in a weird way, it was like tipping our hat to them. You know, it's like an homage to that. But yeah, they sent that letter right away. Do you want me to pet you? I think you want me to pet you. You may not know where you stand with your friend's cat that somehow knows you're a dog person. Your claws are out, but they look relaxed. But you always know exactly where you stand with the Sport Clips app that shows you the shortest wait, and the haircut tracker that tracks your real time wait time down to the minute. Yep, you definitely want to be pet. Okay, sorry, my bad. The Sport Clips app, it's a game changer.

[B]

Do you think sports media is taking itself too seriously?

[A]

I. I do. I think it's changed. Like again, I think a lot of things, it's much more free flowing. But yeah, generally sports media, people, I think there's double standards. Okay, let's, let's say the flight gate, right? One of my cornerstones.

[B]

That's in your crawl.

[A]

Yeah, that's one of my like cornerstone events. And they're killing Brady and I, I remember Sal Pal, he's, he's on CNN or what? I mean, espn acting like this is like world news. Being like, Tom Brady is an Ugg salesman. Women buy Uggs. They're not going to buy Uggs if they don't trust them. It was so dumb. So I went to media day and I see Sal Pal and I take my mic. I'm like, Sal Pal, what'd you say about Tom Brady and Uggs? No, no, no, I, I don't talk to the media. It's like you are the media like it. That double standard drives me crazy. Like you're going to talk about people. Media are celebrities now, no different than the athletes.

[B]

How have you been able to surpass Guy Sports, Fox Sports and social media following?

[A]

Because we're, we're born from the Internet. Like I, I, we're probably the first digital media company. Like, who are the heads of Fox? How old are they? What do they look like? We're all young guys who we hire. They come with a true, proven Internet record.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You don't get to us unless you're young. Like, would you like, I've been looking at crypto, I don't understand it because I'm too old and it's like hard. If you have a crypto guy who's probably older than 25, like he's probably not a great crypto guy. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So if you look at the Internet, these are, these are network guys who have come up doing it the same way. Same playbook, same everything. We had no playbook. We were figuring out as we went.

[B]

Do you believe that's the mistake that linear is making is because those guys came up in linear, they don't understand digital, they don't understand social. Kind of like these say 23 to 30 year olds.

[A]

100%. Like even, I mean, eventually things will change. But like if you look at a NFL game, why does everything look identical on the sets? Eventually it'll, it's the same way they've been doing it 100%. They're just, this is how you do it. This is the way to do it. We're not going to change. We know more. So 100%.

[B]

What do you think the future of sports media is? Is it more what you do?

[A]

100%. I mean, look at you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, if you would think that you could say some of the things that you say, whether it be not on the main network and then go on espn, that. That's a relatively recent development in my mind that you can have that. And they're letting them even like Stephen A. With his own. It that didn't happen not too long ago where, like, you just wouldn't see it.

[B]

Right. Was your goal always to create a media company?

[A]

No. Yeah. No, it was to. First it was to have a job that I liked waking. Then we got to a degree of success. It's like, what do we want to do here? Is Boston Replica. Replica. Can I hire other guys and create the success in Boston? And then it became a media place where it's like, like, let's try to create other personalities. Which I think for my money, obviously I'm biased. My company, I think we've in this new last 20 years created probably the greatest stable or biggest. Like, if you brought back Everybody, whether it's McAfee, Alex, Cooper, you busting with the boys, obviously are leaving. You have Wallow and Gilly, me, Dan. Like, we have a list. People have come from the Internet. Jenna Marbles, who. A lot of you know who that is.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Jenna Marbles was like, Internet 1.0. Like, she was the first YouTube girl. So we've launched massive stars. And at some points, like, I think we have the platform that we can do this and no one else is trying to do it. Like, McAfee's an example. Like, no one hired his ass out of the Colts. Nobody wanted him.

[B]

What. What have you learned about building a media company? I mean, can. Can if somebody say, you know what, Dave, we need you to at University of Michigan call today. We want you to teach a class on how to go about building a media company, how to build a conglomerate.

[A]

I got no clue. Honestly. I think. I think what we've been good at and what I've had an eye for, and they're not all runs. It's like a band, almost like a record label model. Like you're going to miss. But if you can get some hits, we have a good eye for talent, whatever that may like unique people. Like, if I see something, I'm like, do I. Do I click off of it in a second? Or do they have me for 10 to 20? If they do, that generally means there's something there. Like you're just interested in what's going on.

[B]

Right. How many employees shows personalities do you say you think you employ at Barstool?

[A]

I think about 400 right now, total.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you ever think you could grow a company to have 400 employees?

[A]

No. I don't even know. It's just we got bloated a little bit, but we have a lot of. A lot of stuff going on.

[B]

Well, how do you manage? Because you said you look, you are who you are. How do you manage so many different personalities?

[A]

We have different people who help, but the person that's the wor. The talent business sucks. I won't recommend that for anybody. Like, that's one of those things. When you asked me what I thought. But, I mean, we're in the business of building stars and then having them turn around and be like, hey, we want a quadrillion dollars and you can't afford. It's like a sports team SNL model or something like that. Like your agent there, Michael Klein, I think he owes me his whole life, if we're being honest. Like, without me, he doesn't exist.

[B]

So you might need to invest in his business.

[A]

Y. Yeah. Like, I'd like to know how. How he runs that business, but it's. You let people be themselves. We try to see if they rise above. Like, if they start getting traction. We just give them whatever they want. Resources you want to fly to. You know, I remember we had these two guys. They started. They were there for a. A week, and they wanted Porzingis. Like, we want to go find his. His family. And where the he from?

[B]

Lithuania.

[A]

Yeah, they flew to Lithuania, Latvia, somewhere like Laia on. I had no idea what they're doing. So we just. Just let the creators create and try to put the resources behind them. And then we let the Internet decide. It's like, all right, do you guys like them or not?

[B]

How would you describe your workplace?

[A]

Chaotic, competitive, petty. All those things.

[B]

What type you mentioned? Like, okay, I'm watching this person. Whether or not I want to hire him. Does what I hear him, hear him or her speak, click, move on. Or do they like, okay, I might have something.

[A]

It's that. And. And I don't even have to like it. It's just like, I haven't really seen this. He's just caught my attention. For whatever reason, he's saying things I haven't heard. Yeah, that. That really is it. And it's rare, but you see it. And again, you can be wrong plenty of times. But there's just Something there. It's like, why. Why am I staying more than that one second almost to see what's going on here?

[B]

Why are you okay with firing people publicly?

[A]

We do everything publicly. Who did I fire publicly?

[B]

You. You get. I mean, you. I mean, I don't know if I could be the type of boss you are, Dave. I mean, you, You. Because you cut the. I think I'm a little bit more compassionate than you.

[A]

I'm trying to think, who did I fire? Who did I fight? I'm looking for my guy. Who did I fire publicly, Francis? I tell people they're fired. Yeah, but I don't know if it's like, everything we do is public, by the way. So, like, if you. For. If you've gotten to the point where you got fired by me, you earned it. Yeah, and I'll publicly. I'll do anything public don't come to my. Like, if you're in my world, right, you got a content. Everything. Everything's fair game.

[B]

What is your response when people say, man, Dave, Dave don't pay enough. Man, Dave need to break bread. I mean, you know, he. He getting a whole loaf and he passing out crumbs.

[A]

People for. Find me that person who said that and that, that, like. I mean, you'll have certain things. We've had a cut, like, call her daddy there. Do you know who that is?

[B]

I do.

[A]

So, yeah, she. She's turned into a monster. We found her nothing. She's nobody. We signed the two of them to 100 grand each, right? Her and Sophia. Thing exploded six months later, they're up to 500 grand. They signed a three year deal. Okay, you can go be billionaires when you're like, that's what we do. Like you. We don't own you. After go make all but the peanuts.

[B]

Thing, why don't you like, sign them to a three year deal? Maybe like a year in year and a half in say, hey, let's redo this deal. I want to.

[A]

We were redoing the deal. They're tough to deal with, you athletes. Same way holdouts. This their talent and they look at it. And your talent looks at it. Hey, I got strike when this is hot. They don't give a about us. We pay as good, I think, as any media company. And I mean, you know, Wall and Gilly, they're crying, popping bottles with how much they're making. Alex got 60. McAfee's making tens. We pay. That's the biggest misnomer in the world.

[B]

Y' all pay.

[A]

We pay. Pay Pay, pay, pay. I mean, you're huge. How much?

[B]

I'm a free agent.

[A]

Let. Let me. All right.

[B]

I'm just saying. I'm just. David, I'm just throwing it out there. We don't have to negotiate publicly. But I'm just saying I'm free.

[A]

When are you free?

[B]

When you want me to be free.

[A]

Are you really free?

[B]

Yay.

[A]

What do you mean, like, when you're on, like, I.

[B]

No parole, no probation, nothing.

[A]

I mean, free, free. You're probably very expensive right now. What we. Our model generally is the reverse. Like, we find the guys, build them up, and then they leave as opposed to like getting them at the top because you pay the premium.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like we. I don't know what, like you coming to us, for example. We're not going to make you bigger. You're huge. So, like our, our secret sauce is if you're talented, will make you huge, but you'd be good on our networks.

[B]

What have you learned about negotiating?

[A]

I'm not a big negotiator.

[B]

You say, are you a take it or leave it type of guy?

[A]

I have a price. I know works for us. And if it's not good enough, like, what are you going to do? Like the busing guys? Just, you know, three years, 30 million from FanDuel.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's more than we can do. So good luck. You go. We, you. Great relationship, but I'm happy for them.

[B]

Damn. Three for 30, huh?

[A]

Yep. Cause I know I'm supposed to sound 40%. They got. They got the bag.

[B]

Let me ask you a question. How do you go about structuring your deals? Okay. You find somebody, clearly when you offer them, they're not making that money. So somebody gonna give me a minute, a min. Guarantee. Mg 100,000 plus. I mean 80, 20, 90, 10. As far as revenue with ads, that's a lot of money to a person that's making 30,000.

[A]

So most of the time we do it, they're not as huge, but we'll do. They're full time employees for us. So we basically own your ip and it's no different than a sports contract. Like, you sign for a certain amount of years, you can have incentives. We're happy to rip. If you're doing good at the end of the contract, if we can't pay you what you want, then you can go get a better deal, which is exactly. Bus is the perfect example. Alex is McAfee. They're. They're one after another.

[B]

Well, you got a T. I mean, you have an eye. I Mean, you'd have a hell of.

[A]

A GM for this space. Yeah. This space.

[B]

Oh, you can't. You don't think you can pick sports stars?

[A]

It's a different thing. I. That.

[B]

That.

[A]

Listen, I. I'd love to, like, own a team and try it, but. Yeah, for. For this space. Yeah. Like, even when you start popping off, like, I didn't know where's that? There's just something that. And this creds you. You're like, oh, I'm not looking away here. There's, like, something going on.

[B]

Who do you think the next big sports star in media is?

[A]

Who. So what level? Who. Who do we say is, like, a real unknown?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's hard. I don't know. All the people I know of are known if they were unknown. I dropped.

[B]

You know, you don't have a. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, we just hired Gruden.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who was already top of the game and obviously had fella. He's a monster. He's gonna be right back at the top. He's. He's just unbelievable.

[B]

He gets it.

[A]

Gets it.

[B]

He can talk.

[A]

He can talk. He's somebody you don't want to look away. And I've met a bunch of different people through him. It's like, they don't have it. Like, you can see why he got where he did.

[B]

And he can tell stories. You need people that can tell stories and captivate.

[A]

Like, again, do you want to turn the channel on this guy or not?

[B]

Right. You mentioned Gruden. You know, he had $100 million contract that got. I think they're in mediation right now trying to get that resolved because, you know, he got. He got let go. I think he has still, like, six, seven years on the deal. They're trying to figure that out. So how do you go to a Jon Gruden? Cause, you know, he got X amount of dollars. Is it a situation where, you know, he likes to talk, he has something to say, and you want to give him that platform in order to say it?

[A]

Yeah. So for him, he started putting out videos.

[B]

So.

[A]

And I just saw it, and right away I'm like, oh, my God. Like, again, I'm not turned away. And we reached out. We're like, would you ever be interested in talking? Flew out to Orlando, actually met him, hit it off, and. And he was ready to go. I think he was ready to just get back in this world.

[B]

Right. Are you afraid of losing him to coaching?

[A]

I'd be stunned if he's not an NFL coach at some time. Again, stunned I don't know. I don't think it's gonna be like tomorrow, but the guy eats lives, please football. So I think that's what he loves.

[B]

Let me ask you this. There are some emails that got leaked. Well, I don't know who leaked them. Maybe you know who leaked them. Maybe he's talked to you about. He has an idea who he thinks leaked those to do to damage his reputation, his credibility. Are you surprised he got fired because of that?

[A]

No, not in the way that it sounded like it went down. Sound like they're gonna keep. I mean this is my theory before, but he called Goodell an anti football.

[B]

Well, that didn't help.

[A]

Yeah, right. And then guess, guess who's reading. And as someone who's coming from that, I. I know that guy can hold a grudge a little bit. I don't think he loved that. He's like, I'm gonna this guy. And he got caught up in that whole Washington situation and suddenly the only emails being leaked are about him. So I think, I think they were like, we're gonna get this guy out of here.

[B]

Wow. You mentioned PMAC and what he's been able to do. You talk about a punter and he was a very good punter. But punters don't normally parlay what they did on the field until media careers off the field. That normally belongs to quarterbacks, maybe high level players that had a big name when they played and they parlayed on that name moving forward. How do you think McAfee has been able to be so successful talent?

[A]

Like, I mean, the second you see him, it's it. It. He was a super talented guy. He was very funny and very talented. When he's a punter in Indy. Yeah, it was already kind of like, yeah, that swag. Yeah, yeah. Kind of like an indie legend. But I remember I hired him, he said he wanted to be like WWE Champion like three days after I met him. Like that's one of his goals. He worked his ass off and he's. But combine all that with. He's super talented. So that, that's why.

[B]

How are you able to build around. How are you able to build around him?

[A]

So what he did. Barstool was already huge at the time. We hired him and we put out, hey, we're doing a casting for McAfee, like, and just all barstool people showed up. He picked the team he wanted around him and ran that office in Indianapolis.

[B]

Wow. How do you feel? Like you mentioned Alex Cooper left McAfee. I think McAfee might have been the first one to leave.

[A]

Well, the first was that Jenna Marbles.

[B]

Okay, Jenna.

[A]

Then I don't know.

[B]

Alex or PMAC.

[A]

I think it was Alex, then McAfee. And I'm probably. And now busing. I'm probably forgetting a couple others, but. Yeah. How do I feel when they leave? It's bittersweet. I think. I think. I think it's an endorsement of what we're doing. Like a new person coming up. I can be like, hey, look at these. They all went and got multi million dollar contracts. So we're a good place to build that career. It weakens us and it's pressure because when someone leaves like that, you got to replace them, find the next guy again. I keep saying it. It's a very sports team model. Like, you can't pay everybody the max salary because then you're not gonna have. No offense, you're gonna have nobody. So that's what it is. And. And I know that going in, but still sucks.

[B]

McAfee said, quote, he left barstool part because the lack of transparency with the business operations of the company.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I think that's. I think I. That that part he and I disagree on. Now there are certainly something to be said, like maybe a check was late or anything like that, but.

[B]

But the check. Late, yeah, like, can't be late that day.

[A]

But it's like a. I got operations.

[B]

I got people got to play.

[A]

Yeah, no, he's making plenty. It's like a commission check. We gotta wait.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[A]

Like the thing. Not like his regular salary. And he was kind of in a hybrid. So let me give you an example. PMT, Pat McAfee. If our salespeople are out pitching it and at the time, PMT is dwarfing McAfee, which it was at the time. Obviously no longer he did. He wasn't a full time. He got like a share of what was sold. PMT didn't. But it could appear to an outside person, well, they want all the sales to go to PMT as opposed to me, because they don't have to share the commission. Sales guys don't get. Sales guys just want the commission. Whatever these.

[B]

Yes. Whatever they sell, they want. They want their 4% off the top.

[A]

If the client is like, I'm doing pmt, our salespeople aren't going to be like, Whoa, go to McAfee because we got to do that. So I could see how he would say, maybe it wasn't transparent, but in no way were we trying to screw McAfee, anything like that. He has said that about the business. At the same time, be like, I like Dave and Eric. I don't agree with that part of it at all. At all.

[B]

You mentioned Alex, that you lost her. Do you remember that last conversation that you had with Alex?

[A]

The very last one? Yeah, I mean I still talk to her time to time. No, there was nothing specific with her. I knew the deal. And almost everybody who leaves us will take a hometown discount.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because they like working. It's kind of like, you know, Compton Will talked about. It's like you leave the NFL and we're kind of like a team. There's a lot of us, we bust balls, locker room vibe. But she told me what the offer and it's like, if you can get close, I'll stay. And we couldn't get close.

[B]

Yeah. Because first like 60 million million, then 125 and then she just got another like that.

[A]

Yeah, she's, she's, she's a megastar and she's somebody. Like the first time I met her, right, I saw Sizzle Reel and I'm like, who made this for you? She's like, I did. I learned how to edit. Like, done. Signed up. Let's do it. So she's self motivated, very smart.

[B]

What made her special?

[A]

That what I just said. So like you see a lot of people who, who don't put in the work to learn like the beauty of nowadays. There's a lot of people. I get 100 emails a day. Hey, I'm super funny. I'd fit in. I can do this, I can do that. All right, show me a reel. Show me what you've done. Zip. They got nothing. The people, the Internet. You can go do it. You can be self motivated, you can put out 100 episodes, you can do whatever. So she was self motivated. Showing what she wanted to do. She learned how to edit. She had a very like, motivated, clear vision of what she wanted. And it was unique. People hadn't done what she did at the time.

[B]

You've heard of speed dating, right? You meet a bunch of people in one go, quickly making connections. Well, what if I told you there's something just like that? But for hiring, if you're running a business and need to find great talent, imagine meeting several qualified candidates at once, all at a designated time. Well, good news, there is zip intro from ZipRecruiter. You can post your job today and start talking to qualified candidates tomorrow. And right now you can try Zip Intro for free at ZipRecruiter.com Shay Shay Zip Intro lets you meet and assess excellent candidates through back to back video calls. Pick a time that works for you and Zip Intro takes care of finding and scheduling the perfect candidates. Then you get to choose who you want to meet and you'll be talking to great people as soon as tomorrow. Is that easy? Enjoy the benefits of speed hiring with new Zip Intro only from Zip Recruiter, the number one hiring site based on G2. Try Zip Intro for free at ZipRecruiter.com Shay Shay Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com Shay shay zip Intro Post jobs today. Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. I had my. I had a college coach told me that I thought about transferring when I became I was a college all American and was conference player of the year. And he says it's not our job to get you ready to go play somewhere else. I mean, it's a blessing and a curse because they come to you and a lot of these people are really unknown and then all of a sudden they grow into these mega superstars and then they leave you.

[A]

Yeah, it sucks that. But that's why I wouldn't recommend anybody getting a talent business like, you know, one of our biggest stars right now. It's my dog, Ms. Peaches. And I never have to renegotiate. So that's like you want to get in the dog dog business, not the human business.

[B]

Are you surprised she got as big as she got?

[A]

It happened so fast. That caught me off guard. But no, once it went going and you know, once you start that, that mountain, she became like almost a female Oprah, right? These huge guests and I mean, she's got Kamala and like that. So. No, I, I wasn't.

[B]

But you still have, you still do business where you handle her merch, right?

[A]

That ended. We used to.

[B]

Wow. So let me ask you this because you got a model for merch. How did you come up with that model?

[A]

We need to make money. That's it. Like, yeah, I told you in the beginning of the interview, we had the homeless guys selling shirts, I mean, hand out the newspapers. I bought a bunch of T shirts as a barstool. Sports on them so they could wear it. Well, they lasted one week. I was stuck with these shirts. I had no money. Put the shirt in the newspaper. Hey, buy these shirts. A couple people bought them. I'd actually keep count. Hey, we sold seven shirts this week. There'd be a little picture of it. So day one, we were just selling merch. Hustling need to find a way to make money.

[B]

What's your number one selling T shirt?

[A]

Oh, what a question. It could be free. Brady. That was obviously they're around iconic moments.

[B]

I was thinking about the other one, the commissioner with the nose.

[A]

That's huge. Goodell, clown nose.

[B]

How did you, how did you, how did you come up with that idea?

[A]

Deal. So there was a shirt that we sold Charlie Sheen winning. Like I. Yes. So we sold that. It was on a similar blue T shirt and I just stuck the red nose on him. And then we had, I mean, Patricia wore it off the plane after they won the Super Bowl. Sean Payton wore it when he got suspended. It became like a. Basically a sign of rebellion against the league. Just took off. We did this event at Foxborough, first game after they won the Super Bowl. Goodell's back at Gillette, they're playing the chiefs. We had 40,000 towels printed with the little clown nose on it. And we, we did an event a week before. I said, Patriot season ticket holders, I need you to show up at this warehouse. I'm gonna give you boxes, you hand them out crafts, call me. They heard about it. They're like, you know, we don't let anything come into the stadium. You're not allowed to promote for free. We're just going to turn the other cheek on this. We're going to let these come in. Wow. Yeah. So that, that took a life of its own.

[B]

Have you ever met Roger?

[A]

Never put me in cuffs twice.

[B]

You think, you think Roger would sit down? You think he's willing to bury the hatchet now?

[A]

I don't know. Maybe now. At one point during COVID he did a charity auction and it was, you could sit in his basement, watch Monday Night Football with him. So I bid 250 grand, won the auction. And then I got an email being like, we did NFL security, did our background check on you. You've been arrested twice. We're not gonna let you do it. You didn't have to do background check. I've been arrested twice by you guys. That's the only time.

[B]

That's the background.

[A]

Yeah, that's the background. You didn't have to do. Go dig that. So that was a little bit ago. The thing about it, it's been good for us. If he sat down, it'd be the end of it. Like, I mean, what's gonna happen? So. So I don't know. It's been an interesting saga with him.

[B]

Are you still banned by the NFL? Can you not go to an NFL sanctioned event?

[A]

I don't believe we're allowed in media day. Like, a couple years ago, they had a picture. It looked like we were like Billy the Kid. They had gang. They had posters up with, like, barstool employees. Dude, be on the lookout for them to up with ESPN with Super bowl events. But I only do it if the Patriots are in it, which, by the way, I still hate. I've gone over it, but you're a little, like, call the National Guard thing. There's no way. I. I like, very aware of that.

[B]

Dave, you couldn't have been more than, like, 16 or 17.

[A]

It was. It was before we had really gotten going, and you guys were in the height of it, but. Yeah, I hate that speech.

[B]

Hold on. Caleb Presley, I mean, gone.

[A]

Lost him, too. Yes. You know, these gambling companies, they're. They're. If we know how much we're paying people and how much we make, and someone's going to overpay by 50%. Now, it may not be an overpay for underdog, because I don't know their business model, but I know how much we made. And if I. I can't just lose, like, 10 million a year, right? Can't.

[B]

Yeah. Because you can only sell so much.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, I go to our salespeople, I'm like, how much can we possibly make on this guy? And I'm happy to even get close to breaking it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And Caleb wanted to stay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So.

[B]

But they just made him an offer he just. He couldn't refuse, and you couldn't match, and it's got to be okay.

[A]

It is. He. At one point, he's like. I told him, I'm like, I think you got to go. He's like, I'm not going to go. Like, we hired him out of college. I saw him running down the North Carolina sidelines with this long blonde hair. I'm like, who the hell is that? And so we recruited him as much as we recruit out of college, and he was with us, I don't know, 10, 10, 7, 8 years, so. But at some point, everyone's going to get paid.

[B]

How long? Tom Brady signed it. Did Brady snatch him up?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, the Brady. You die.

[A]

Can you still listen? You can do, like. You know when you do a murder mystery, you have strings up on, like, almost everything comes back to us. Your guy, Silver Lake, Brady's company, they're all underdog. They're all barstool people.

[B]

Right?

[A]

We were so early. It's, like, all barstool.

[B]

But Dave Brady is your Guy, it's like, if you got a girl and y' all break up, she should be off limits to Brady. He definitely should. He definitely shouldn't try to court her.

[A]

Half the companies won't exist. I agree with you. I agree. It sucks that they're. They're. But it. Literally every company is so twisted with, like, ex Barstool people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's tough. And Brady's my guy. I don't know if Brady's my guy. I don't know that I'm his guy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, like, he. He likes me, but, like.

[B]

But he's running a business now. You do it.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think he's like, I owe Dave a ton of favors type thing.

[B]

Why do you let your. Why do you let your. Your talent keep their ips?

[A]

It varies. So if some of them come to, like, bus and had the IP beforehand, caller Daddy essentially put a gun in my mouth with contract negotiations. It's like, all right, I don't have. I don't have much wiggle room. And some IPs, they don't work. Like, all right, let's say you work for me and. And we have Club. Club Shay Shack.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What the am I gonna do with Club Shay if you leave? So some of them, it's like, you know, you're just being a. To a degree.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Gives them more leverage. But I want creators to be like, they're a fair place. They're not trying. So, you know, certain ones, if it's just a general podcast that we can change. Yeah.

[B]

But, like, what's this synonymous with them?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Call her daddy Busing with the boys. Ex wife.

[A]

Yeah. What are we going to do with it?

[B]

You actually signed a good friend of mine, Coach prime, to a contract before he ended up getting. And I think he was still doing it for you when he was at Jackson State.

[A]

My favorite guys we've had.

[B]

He told me the same thing. He said, man. I said, man, because I was surprised that he actually signed with Barstool. And he said, man, you got it wrong about Dave.

[A]

A lot of people got it wrong, but I didn't know what to expect with him. I'm still pretty friendly. I'll text him now all the time. I think he's one of the most. What I was expecting to walk through the door. 180 and one of the most impressive. None of his success surprised me in the least. After you get to know him, what you.

[B]

I think the thing is the. The public Persona versus the private Persona is totally different.

[A]

I remember he Told me a story when I was like, man, when he was coming out of college, and he's like, you know, you saw the pomp circumstance. It's like, I researched where guys at my position got drafted and they weren't getting paid. They weren't. He's like, I knew I had to do something to create my brand and my image and brilliant. And he's a brilliant, smart. I mean, he's literally one of my favorite hires we've ever had.

[B]

You signed million dollars worth of game. Will Wallow and Gilly. How did you. How did you know about them before you signed them? So how much do you know the.

[A]

Guy, Roan, who's a battle rapper, white kid. He's like. He's like, basically the real life version of, like, Eminem.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So he's from Philly, and he's like, hey, there's these two guys you may want to go look at. So we went to Philadelphia, sat down, had dinner with him. Wallow Muller was out of jail for, like, five seconds when we met him. And I remember him being like, I just hustle T shirts on the side of the road. Like, that's how I'm making money right now. He had his own gear.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And again, it's like, that's what we want. Like, that's.

[B]

That was kind of the model you started with.

[A]

Exactly. It's all right.

[B]

I.

[A]

And we were sold. We clicked. We got along. They're crazy. And I mean, I don't even know what the hell Gilly's doing now. Run out of the tunnel. That's crazy. That's like the crazy I've seen doing it. It's like the mascot, so. And again, it's like, we hire them, we try to put our gasoline behind them. They're a new demo for us. I don't think most people would be like, oh, barstool's urban. And then you let them do their thing.

[B]

Right. How would that have that investment paid off? Because normally, you. You. I mean, have you made any bad investments? Because we hear about Kayla Presser, we hear about McAfee, we hear about Buston, we hear about Alex Cooper, we hear about all the.

[A]

Yeah, there. I mean, we. We. Those are big contracts. So you have to be really, really proven at that point to get that type of deal for us. So it's hard to do a bad contract. So those guys, Wallow and Gilly are one of the highest, probably contracts we've given out. They're already there. And at the time, if we're being just Totally honest. A lot of people have perception of us. Just a bunch of white guys. So there's a diversity ad that they had even.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not only being super talented.

[B]

Yeah. I was wondering about that DEI stuff.

[A]

Like, you know who we tried to hire before? It's the guys on before they went to Showtime. Oh, yeah.

[B]

All the smoke.

[A]

No. Jesus and Romero.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Like, before anyone knew who the hell they were. And even like, we. We did talk to up all in all that smoke.

[B]

And sometimes y' all didn't talk to us.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Y' all didn't talk.

[A]

You didn't exist yet.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, we was free when I got let go by fox. We reached out to them.

[A]

They were before Fox.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

No, we were talking like pre covert almost.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Yeah. No, we didn't reach out. So I was like, you hadn't. Well, I. I didn't honestly know you were let go by fox. I didn't. I knew you were doing it with Skip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you showed up on espn.

[B]

I was like, wow, Nobody, don't nobody want a cj.

[A]

But you kind of. You. You kind of like. I feel like, opened up after the Fox. Like. Like you were more guard. Like, I don't know if this is gonna sound bad. I felt like you were second fiddle to Skip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then once you got off, that show bloomed.

[B]

Well, we didn't have Nightcap, so Nightcap allows me to be a different.

[A]

I think we talked to Ocho at one point.

[B]

Yeah. Zach Bryant. Why you writing? Why you had to Diddy this song for him?

[A]

So he's. He's dating a girl that was on my podcast. Podcast. He was dating Brianna Chicken Fry. Right. Who is a girl who blew up kind of social media. I was doing a tick tock podcast with her. She got paid, offered a 12 million dollar NDA. Not to talk about the relationship. I saw the NDA. So in my head, and based on what she said.

[B]

12 million.

[A]

12 million. She turned it down. She turned it down because she wanted to be able to talk with the relationship. To me, that's somebody doing real scumbag behavior. So this track came out.

[B]

You hold grudges, don't you?

[A]

Like you don't believe.

[B]

I believe.

[A]

Champagne bottles with my enemy's names engraved on Skipper. The CEO of vs. Yeah.

[B]

John Skipper.

[A]

Yeah. So they canceled our ESPN show without telling us. After one episode, I was mad. Made a champagne bottle. Like, two weeks later, busted for the coke thing, which makes no sense. That story. Got held hostage by a random coke dealer. Anybody who believes that story is out of their mind.

[B]

You don't believe that, huh?

[A]

You found a rent, you're John Skipper. You found a random coke dealer on the side of the street and he's holding you hostage or after. No, I don't believe that story.

[B]

So what the hell you think happened? Because the man he had, he wielded so much power in ESPN for such a long period of time. Nothing ran through ESPN without Skipper's blessing.

[A]

I, I, I, Something happened. I don't know. I wasn't there. I, I think there's probably a lot of backstories, skeletons maybe. I don't think it was a coke dealer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That forced them out.

[B]

We were talking about busting with the boys. Taylor, Lewan and Will Compton. How did you, how did you, how did you knew know they were, they could be special.

[A]

Saw an early episode of theirs and it was just raw, real. And we reached out to him. We're like, hey, you guys are doing something we really haven't seen. Would you be interested in come on board? So I think we've had them for about six years. It's been great. I actually love those guys. It sucks they're leaving bus balls, but they just had that it and Will's a monster. A lot of times what you find. Taylor's great and this isn't really your case, but a lot of times what we found is the guys who were athletes who maybe didn't make all that money and he didn't, he was like, like, you know, bouncing off, getting cut.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They come into the media world and they're just ready to go. Working there at this is their career. They didn't make it. And Will's been, Will's, Will's a megastar.

[B]

Yeah. What did they learn how to do this? Because I think they're set up for the Production Cup. They're doing a production company now, I think.

[A]

Yeah. They all learn. They go to school of barstool, get a degree and they get a degree and then they, they graduate, make a lot of money.

[B]

So let me ask you this, is that it seems to be that this is the gambling deals or the deals that they get once they leave you that they don't get and they feel they don't get when they're under you.

[A]

Here's what it is. So we have a gigantic all encompassing DraftKings deal.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So DraftKings pays us a ton of money. They don't necessarily if Boston's with us or not with us, that doesn't change a Scent of what, what bar Barstool makes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So another gambling company can be like, hey, we can pay you all this money. We have no way to make that up. If it was a different advertiser, if it was a liquor, we could incorporate it, give the money to them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But in this case it's a gambling deal.

[B]

That's opposite of what.

[A]

Correct. And we have an exclusivity and DraftKings is paying us the same whether busing's here or not. Buses here, they, they care me, Dan and some people. So it puts us behind the eight ball. And these guys have infinity money. These gambling companies right now they're spending, you know, they're spending like wildfire.

[B]

They do, yeah.

[A]

Do you not have a gambling deal? Does he not?

[B]

So they wanted to split the revenue with you. Who busing? So like you said, you have this deal, you have an all encompassing gambling deal.

[A]

I'm gonna go back to your gambling deal.

[B]

It's not, it's not very good. I don't really want to talk about it. But that's nothing here. So you have this all encompassing deal. And so basically Barstool we're going to give you, let's just say for. I'm throwing out a number 70 million and so you like, okay, this show, Bart, I'm going to give you guys 2 million of this. This show I'm going to give you 1.5 million of this. And this show, I'm going to give you 3 million of this.

[A]

Pretty much. And now there's different people. Some people like if you advertise with me or pardon my take, that doesn't get cut at all. Those are like shows we own. Spitting Chicklets. Yes. Bus. Yes. But there's no way it's going to be near what they, where they can.

[B]

Get on their own if a gambling deal just reached out. Directive deal.

[A]

Yeah. And then they can still go sell their other ads on top of that. So I think Will and Taylor said they would have take 40%. Like they, if we. They are getting a 40%. And I mean Will was call, he's like, how can I stay and I want it. I made the most aggressive offer I've made at Barstool to keep them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I just couldn't do it. You get to a point, it's like how. You know.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. You can't do it.

[B]

If it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make dollars.

[A]

That's a Good.

[B]

So what have you learned from each situation? Talent. Leaving. Because it doesn't seem like as I sit here with you, Dave, it doesn't seem. It doesn't seem to me that you bear any animosity.

[A]

It, it, it. It's how you leave. Like, I, I had a problem with Jenna Marbles, the way she left when she left, left. But as long as you do the right thing, I know it going in. Like, I. There's, you know, if somebody left for less money or similar money, even then I don't. I'd be like, why? Like, I don't. We treat you well. But I can't really begrudge any of the. Because I do the same thing. Like, if that's me, I'm probably making the same decision.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So. But it does suck.

[B]

Do you ever regret, like, man, bro, bro, we put this gas behind you, bro. We blew you up, up. And this how you do your boy.

[A]

No, I mean the caller daddy thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That became a real situation and it could have ended really ugly, and it didn't. But maybe. It's maybe petty. Like, most of the people graduate. Like, when I say graduate going to. They'll come back. They'll be like, yeah, I owe Barstool a lot. Like, thank you. And so, so, no, I don't. I don't really have that. That. And I'm a petty guy. I almost have it on lesser people, like, people who, who's like, irrelevant if someone goes to a competition. Like, there's a guy at Underdog who tried to poach our, like, producers. And that drove me nuts. It's like, you won't even know who the they are if you don't work here. That's a little different talent who's on contracts, right? Like, no, it doesn't. It doesn't.

[B]

This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just simply go back to Club Shay Shay profile and I'll see you there. With the MX Gold card, you can run your errands and grab a pick.

[A]

Me up from Dunkin on Amex.

[B]

Earn up to $7 in monthly statement credits when you pay with the Gold card at Dunkin' enrollment required terms apply.

[A]

Learn more at American express.

[B]

Press. Com us explore gold.

[A]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.