Club Shay Shay - Hitmaka Part 2

Summary

Club Shay Shay - Hitmaka Part 2 (February 11, 2026)

Podcast: Club Shay Shay
Host: Shannon Sharpe
Guest: Hitmaka (formerly Young Berg)
Duration: ~1 hr 40 min

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Episode Overview

In this richly candid and entertaining installment, Shannon Sharpe sits down with multi-platinum producer Hitmaka (fka Young Berg) for Part 2 of their conversation. They delve deep into Hitmaka’s journey from artist to influential producer and executive, the intricacies of the music business, personal betrayals, complex family issues, and the realities behind his notorious rebrand. This episode is packed with behind-the-scenes stories from Hitmaka’s rollercoaster career, advice for aspiring artists, and his unfiltered thoughts on relationships, music industry politics, and personal healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Transition: From Young Berg to Hitmaka

• Reason for Stopping Rap Career

  • Hitmaka explains how industry “blackballing” after a personal incident redirected his public artist career. He emphasizes that many didn’t recognize his songwriting/production skills at the time ([02:15-03:15]).
  • Quote: “I’m the victim. Like, how y’all mad at me, nigga? Like some niggas did some bullshit to me. ...So that happened. And a lot of people didn’t understand that I was writing and producing my records. As an artist, right?” – Hitmaka [02:18]

• Birth of 'Hitmaka' Brand

  • The genesis of “Hitmaka” as a production moniker was spontaneous, originating from a self-motivating moment in the studio ([03:30-03:55]).
  • Quote: “One special day, I just went in the booth and ...I just was like, ‘Hitmaka.’ I just said it before the song and then it just clicked. God dropped that gem on me and got me out there, and that’s been it.” – Hitmaka [03:32]

Behind-the-Scenes Industry Stories

• Working Behind the Scenes vs Center Stage

  • Hitmaka compares his career path to actors who become directors, and affirms he’s “bigger behind the camera than I was in front of the camera” ([05:00-05:20]).
  • He still creates, ghostwrites, and mentors other artists, believing the true legacy is impact.

• Being Blackballed & Relationship with Jeezy

  • Shares being excluded from a video (“Double Cup” with Jeezy, Ludacris, and Juicy J) despite having crafted the hook ([05:33-07:18]).
  • Quote: “How I’m good enough for y’all to get on this song with me doin’ the hook ...but I ain’t good to be standing next to y’all. ...I was climbing out the grave.” – Hitmaka [05:46]

• Gucci Mane’s Diss and Later Collaboration

  • He was dissed by Gucci Mane (“try me like I’m Young Berg ...”) and later worked with him successfully as a producer. They never formally addressed the issue ([08:23-09:30]).
  • “It was just something that happened. ...It would be like, I’m gonna step over you like Tyronn Lue, you know what I’m saying? Like, it was just one of them.” – Hitmaka [09:04]

• T-Pain Studio Fallout

  • Details creative and personal miscommunication with T-Pain which led to a falling out, and their eventual reconciliation ([09:34-13:03]).
  • Quote: “He took me off the song and... let Bow Wow sing your part. ...I let him have it. He said he was gonna kill me in his house.” – Hitmaka [12:32]

Hitmaka’s Production Philosophy & Rebrand

• Intentional Work Ethic

  • Credits “ten toes in” dedication, learning from setbacks, and a low-ego, high-output mentality for his industry resurgence ([13:16-15:28]).
  • Quote: “Imagine being praised... and then now nobody fuck with you. ...I had one shot to kinda penetrate pop culture again. I was like, yo, I’ma stay low and keep firing.” – Hitmaka [14:00]

• Top Rebranders in Hip-Hop

  • Ranks himself alongside Joe Budden (rapper to podcaster) and 2 Chainz as having “the most successful rebrands” ([15:28-15:35]).

Studio Process and Collaborations

• Not a 'Build from Scratch with Artist' Producer

  • Prefers bringing finished beats and songs to the studio versus building live with artists, taking inspiration from Pharrell and Swizz Beatz ([18:55-19:20]).
  • Quote: “You gonna come talk to me, we gonna press play on some ideas and we gonna see where you get in and how you fit into this situation.” – Hitmaka [19:20]

• On Talent and Freestyle Culture

  • Surprised by Ty Dolla $ign’s versatility.
  • On MC methods: “Nobody writes anything down anymore... It’s all punching.” – Hitmaka [22:01]

Industry Win-Wins, Producer & Songwriter Credit

• Approach to Collaboration & Executive Production

  • Values teamwork over auteur one-man-band culture (citing Quincy Jones, Diddy, LA Reid, Kanye) ([26:31-28:34]).
  • “Collaboration is always key. ...How can I possibly executive produce nine albums and compete ...by myself?” – Hitmaka [27:25]

• Song Splits and Producer Credit

  • Advocates for “pop splits” (equal division among main contributors) as fairer than “nigga splits” (where producer takes 50%), explaining the math and reasoning ([39:18-40:40]).

Sampling and Song Clearance

• Successful Sampling without Expensive Clearance
  • Many “samples” are actually replays, avoiding expensive master clearances ([33:40-35:56]).
  • Hardest clearance? Michael Jackson. “Transparency” with Chris Brown couldn’t be cleared due to the Rod Temperton estate ([37:03–37:59]).

Modern Music Industry Realities

• Streaming Earnings vs. Traditional Revenue
  • Streaming doesn’t enrich most artists; real money is in radio, branding, and touring ([50:49-52:24]).
  • Quote: “The money is in radio, Shannon... It would be a drop in a bucket compared to where they getting other finances from.” – Hitmaka [51:10–52:24]

On Ghostwriting and Gender Dynamics in Music

• No Problem With Ghostwriting
  • Open about writing for both male and female artists (often penning female verses), and addresses the gendered double-standards in the industry ([41:29-44:23]).

Relationships, Personal Life, and Therapy

• Mixing Business & Pleasure

  • Candid about navigating relationships in the industry, “Making a song is a sexual experience. Creating music might be the closest thing to sex possible, but just leave it at it.” – Hitmaka [66:24]
  • Warns against mixing business and pleasure lightly.

• Betrayal & Robbery Ordeal

  • Shares extensive details about being set up for a robbery by a woman during LA’s COVID lockdown ([67:44-72:31]):
    • “She came out with that shit. My lawyer had ...cameras at my house, so I was able to put on my Instagram to show multiple men passing guns through my shit...” – Hitmaka [76:59]
    • Emotional and logistical aftermath, selling his first home, her attempt at extortion, and ultimately being vindicated by video evidence.

• Thoughts on Love, Family, and Emotional Boundaries

  • Reflects on the desire for family/kids, the difficulty balancing career and healthy relationships, and his struggle to forgive family.
  • Profound personal discussion about his complicated relationship with his mother—issues of abandonment, financial conflict, and missed connection. Openly admits a difficulty forgiving, despite “ponying up” for family when he can ([84:48-94:53]).
  • Quote: “I can count on one hand how many times I’ve seen my mom in 20 years.” [93:20]
  • Quote: “I’m a cold n**** once you cross me. ...We talking about graces. Come on, she’s 60 something years old and I’m 40. What graces are we talking about?” – Hitmaka [95:16]

• Therapy and Vulnerability

  • Explains why he sought counseling—lack of safe spaces for men to express, shame around vulnerability, and gendered double standards on emotional honesty. ([82:23-84:05])

The Industry—Respect, Rivalries & Recognition

• On Artists Taking/Shelving Songs

  • Confirms it happens daily, but he now has the leverage to resist less prominent artists offering more money when exclusives are promised to A-listers ([46:20-48:13]).
  • “I could do that now. When I was a smaller producer, I couldn’t do that. ...You gotta work your way up to be a staple in the business to where you can make decisions like that.” – Hitmaka [47:23-48:08]

• Hollywood and Relationship Overlap

  • Why celebs “pass around” the same women: “What’s in proximity to you is what’s in proximity to other rapper and producers.” – Shannon Sharpe [64:20]

Advice and Reflections

• On Life and Enoughness

  • Hitmaka and Sharpe get introspective about wealth, ambition, legacy, and what it means to “have enough” ([53:38-55:55]).
  • Quote: “There ain’t no difference between 50 million and 100 million. ...When is it enough?” – Hitmaka [53:41]

• On New Artists and Legacy

  • Praises Leon Thomas, Kalani, Dream Doll, Tink, and Gilly’s daughter, New York La, as stand-out new talents ([32:07-33:06]).

Closing: Producer Mount Rushmore

• Hitmaka’s Top 4 Producers All Time:
  • Quincy Jones, Kanye West, Jermaine Dupri, Pharrell ([99:34-100:11])

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Memorable Quotes

• On the Music/Game:
  • “You never outshine a master, bro. 48 laws of power. That’s the big dog. Stay away.” – Hitmaka [25:24]
• On Collaboration:
  • “Collaboration is always key. ...How can I possibly executive produce nine albums...by myself?” – Hitmaka [27:25]
• On Forgiveness:
  • “Oh, I don’t forgive or forget.” – Hitmaka [98:46]

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Recommended Listening Timestamps

• [02:18] Why Hitmaka stopped rapping and was blackballed
• [05:00] Reflection on behind-the-scenes creative power
• [05:46] Story of exclusion from Jeezy video
• [08:23] On being dissed by — and later working with — Gucci Mane
• [12:32] Breakdown with T-Pain and how they patched up
• [13:16] How the Hitmaka rebrand worked
• [18:55] How Hitmaka works with artists in the studio
• [22:01] Changes in songwriting/recording process (“Nobody writes anything down anymore.”)
• [39:18] Pop splits vs. “n**** splits” in song credits
• [41:29] On writing for female artists and gendered dynamics
• [51:10] The real money in music (not streaming)
• [66:24] On mixing business with pleasure—“Making a song is a sexual experience...”
• [67:44-72:31] Detailed story on being set up, robbed, and the aftermath
• [84:48-98:47] Therapy talk and Hitmaka’s relationship with his mother
• [99:34] Mt. Rushmore of producers

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Summary Tone

Conversational, unfiltered, deeply honest, and often humorous. Both Sharpe and Hitmaka keep it real, trading wisdom, war stories, and hard-earned lessons with a mix of levity, street-level candor, and hard truth. Hitmaka is open about career mistakes, betrayals, emotional blockages, the price of reinvention, and the value of both collaboration and personal boundaries.

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This episode gives listeners a rare look behind the curtain of hip-hop creation, industry politics, and the messy reality of chasing long-term success — both professionally and personally.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway. You got to. Why? Why'd you stop rapping after only putting out one album?

[A]

Cuz that. That the situation happened, the dynamics happened. With the change situation, it kind of was like blackballed me for getting my shit took. I'm like, hey, I'm the victim. Like, how y' all mad at me, nigga? Like some niggas did some bullshit to me. So that happened. And a lot of people didn't understand that I was writing and producing my records. As an artist, right? So I always knew, like, salute to my brother, Rob Holiday, who's here with me right now. He made all them records with me. Sexy lady, the business. I told the man sitting to the left of us right now, bro, when I met him, this is a blessing that God got on my life. And just his sit. I ain't know that, man. I heard a Beat cd, I told him to drop out of school. He was in, like, a sophomore junior high school. He dropped out of school and moved into the house with me. So it's just different situations. So at that point, being blackballed, kind of, I'm like, man, what can I fall back on? Like, all I know is music. My shit's still hot. They just don't want it from me, right? So I decided at that point, I'm like, yo, I'm gonna just get behind the scenes and get on my producing shit. I wasn't even Hit Maker or nothing like that. I was just producing as Young Bird or what. And then one special day, I ain't gonna lie, I just went in the booth and I cannot lie to you, I just was like, hitmaker. I just said it before the song and then it just click. God dropped that. That gym on me and got me.

[B]

Out there, and that's been it.

[A]

What? My first one, I think I said hit Maker. I was living in Miami at the time, and I was working out of studios. And I used to like, bro, like, my whole process, I used to. I ain't had no. Like, I had money, my parents had money, but they wasn't really with me like that. I went through so many different trials and tribulations. So at that point, all I could do is, like, get beats and have. And write songs from my house and just sit and write the song from my house and get me a fifth and just drink some Ciroc and write and write and write and write and write, then go to the studio and dump my songs. And from there, that ended up leading me to be the guy named James, who's Vincent Herbert's cousin, who gave my song to Vincent Herbert. At that time, they had a TV show called Tamar and Vince, and Tamar and Vince ended up flying me to la, and Vince and Herbert kind of put the battery in my back and gave me my first big placement again. I did a lot work on that Tamar, Love and War album, and that was what took me out of here and brought me back to la. Wow, that's.

[B]

I mean, it's to, like, you know, what I'm done rapping. I'm gonna get behind the camera. It's like an actor. Like, you know what? I ain't acting no more. I'm gonna be behind the camera and I'm gonna be even bigger. I'm gonna be bigger behind the camera than I was in front of the camera. Do you feel that's your case?

[A]

Oh, man, most definitely. And not only that, I'm still a creative. I'm still rapping. I'm still writing raps for people. I'm still doing.

[B]

You just don't listen.

[A]

Hey, you think I wanna sing? Didn't we just talking about defense and all this other shit? You see what these niggas going through? I don't wanna. Was always to be the next LA Reid of this situation, okay? To be the guy that actually made the music, that actually was involved in the studio, that had hits, but also could relate to the artist. Now at this level that I am right now, and it's working.

[B]

Jeezy wouldn't let you in the video?

[A]

Hey, yo, this is a crazy. This is a good one. Yo, bro, you good. Y' all good, bro.

[B]

Y' all good. Why he wouldn't let you in the video?

[A]

I guess I was blackballed on his list at that time, too.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah. So I ain't gonna lie, like. And that one hurt me, like. Cause I was climbing out of a. You know how. Trying to bury you alive. I'm climbing out the grave. You know what I'm saying? And at that point, I did that song. It's called Double Cup. I was on the hook. It was DJ Infamous song featuring myself, Juicy J, Ludacris and Jeezy. And Jeezy's on fire at the time as artist. So I ain't gonna front Shay. Like, I was at the video and Infamous told me to come early. Juicy J was good with me being in some of his shots or whatever, doing all. He ain't hating on the salute to Juicy J. But at that time, like, it we the video there, I'm like, this is my song. Like, you remember I told you. Like, I make the song when I'm in the studio. It was my hook on a beat that I picked. I put it all together, and the DJ just put the features on it. So I'm like, I'm feeling a little entitled. Like, hold on. Oh, I'm good enough for y' all to get on this song with me doing a hook to the song, but I ain't good to be standing next to y'. All. So, boom. I ain't going to lie. I'm tell you the truth. I do my parts. They like, yeah, you good. You rap. I'm like, all right, I'm going to just hang around this girls on set, this down and third. So now Jeezy and them get there liquor flowing. They shooting, they shot. It's Jeezy, Luda, Juicy J. They like action. You know, I got up. Jeezy like, cut.

[B]

I'm gonna crip crazy on the nigga, bro.

[A]

They was mad as hell. And I'll end up leaving a video shortly after that or whatever.

[B]

So Juicy J was cool. Was Luda cool with you being on this, or. You don't know. You just know Jeezy wasn't cool with you being in there.

[A]

Yeah, but I wouldn't say Luda probably wasn't cool. Cause Luda ain't really like a street rapper. But at that time, I was going through so much, like, downfall on a street level with just bullshit happening that I can understand why Jeezy ain't really want me to be next to him at that time. But then Jeezy spent the block mad. People done dissed me. I got plaques with him. Gucci Mane done dissed me, like, several times. And I got millions of records sold with him as hitmaker.

[B]

So you cool with that?

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

You about that making money, so you gotta forgive it hard. So just because you. Hey, you might've said something foul about me yesterday or a year ago or two years ago, but when it come to making this money, I'm gonna make.

[A]

This money now, man. That might be most I am to a female. I'm forgetting it got a price on it. That's the only time I act like a.

[B]

Hold on. So Gucci, like, he used. It's like, try me like I'm Young Berg and I'm gonna make yo your eyes cry.

[A]

Wow, that was heavy for me, too. I was living in Atlanta when he said that shit to you. And Gucci was big at that time, too. I'm like, damn, I don't even know Gucci. And then fast forward, I'll never forget. So, boom. I become the vice president of Atlantic Records in 2016, and I'm VP of A and R and working on a bunch of different. And I think the first joint that me and Gucci did was called Tone it down featuring Chris Brown. And that was like an early start of me and Chris Brown run together with features and things that we got going on and that, like, double platinum, triple platinum.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Me and Gucci ain't never talked about that shit ever either. We done been in the studio after the fact or whatever. We ain't never do that because you talk about it. It was a part of pop culture. It just happened. And he decided to say that he ain't got no disdain for me. He don't feel like no way about me. It was just something that happened. It would be like, I'm gonna step over you like Tyron Lou, you know what I'm saying? Like, it was just one of them, right? So I ain't taking no type of way.

[B]

T. Pain spoke about you being in the house drunk, calling him broke.

[A]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[B]

You called a man broke.

[A]

I ain't calling him broke.

[B]

What you call him?

[A]

I ain't gonna lie. T. Pain had almost like he had paused. He kinda. He broke me at that point because, like, look, I was living in Atlanta and Atlanta was so cliquey at the time. And I don't know if it was like that for you or whatever, but, you know, like, it was just. It was such and such and them over there, such and such and him over there.

[B]

It's still like that.

[A]

It's still clicking.

[B]

But I've been a single clique. I've been by myself.

[A]

I don't hang with nobody. See, we the same. So at that point, T. Pain, well, he one of my idols. Like, he's like a. He changed my life, which is what he did. I think the Dream and T. Pain are like, really heavy on my list of changing my life and involving my career. So I'll never forget, I'm on a screen tour and I thought, and like, T. Pain was the headliner. I'm on there, whatever. I'm like. I went in the studio one day, I was the first to do the auto tune shit. Like after T. Pain, like, I think probably before Wayne did it and all the other stuff. So I went in there and I did a song and I thought it was a hit and I went and we on a tour. I played with T. Pain. I never forget it. Like, T. Pain was like a joker. And I love T. Pain. But that's probably why, like, when he was in his glory, he wasn't with like that either. He was a real jokester. He was a real like, ha ha, clown, laugh at you type. You know what I'm saying? So at that point, I played him a song. I got on this tour bus, I played him a song. I was using an autotune. I'm like, yo, bro, can you please sing this hook for me, he like, you sound so good singing it. What the you need me for now? Mind you, I thought he was lying. Cause he ain't want to do it for me or whatever. But that shit inspired me to keep going. It was like gas in a tank for me or whatever. So now all this shit happen. Happens the fall, all the bullshit happens. I live in Atlanta. T. Pain's on a. On a. In an interesting face in his career. I'm an interesting pace in my career. We end up linking. I never forget. It probably was T Money or something like that. And he took me to his house, and I'm in his house and we vibing, and I just start going to his house every. Every so often. You know what I'm saying? A couple times a week, we were making records. And then T. Pain, I brought him a song that I did on my own. And I did the hook, too. This the Jeezy story all over again. Yeah, but he did it a little different. I brought a song to him. It's called Bad Bitches Link Up. I'm like, yo, this crazy. He do the song. I'm on the hook of the song. He like. I put Trey Songz on the song. I'm like, dope. All right, Good, good, good, good. I hear it hard, and then I come back to the crib another time. And I got. Remember I told you earlier in the interview that me and Bow Wow was bad Bow Wow. So bow wow hosting 106 and Park. Now he the host of 106 and Park. T. Pain took me off the song and was. He said, yo, I'm making. I'mma let Bow Wow sing your part or say your part on a song.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah. So I'm like, wait, hold on. Wait.

[B]

What? Huh?

[A]

So it just triggered me and brought me back to it. And I wasn't really as cool as with Bow. I wasn't cool with Bow at all at the time. But now me and Bow are brothers, right? But that shit just hitting a trigger on me. And I ain't gonna lie, that was back in Patron days, boy. I let him have it. He said he was gonna kill me in his house. He was mad at me and all this type of stuff or whatever. And that was the end of me and T. Pain relationship as far as me being the young guy to come to his crib and bring ideas and create songs for him. And then further down the line, we end up getting cool again or whatever.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Talk to me. How the rebranding? Because you go from youngberg to Hitmaker. Why has that been so successful of a transition for you?

[A]

God, I really can't even like, can't tell you how. It's just the work. Like, I ain't gonna lie. Like, I always, like I've been telling you before, I always just been totally locked into the work. Ten toes into the work or whatever. So I think that at that point, I'm gonna get the real. So Jeremiah, I didn't know Jeremiah. He's from Chicago. He's one of my, like, good friends. And we got. Ended up getting cool and we just made a bunch of songs together, right? I had a bunch of songs and I had a bunch of different stuff going on or whatever. But I think that the energy that me and him created, he was super on fire at the time. And he didn't work with nobody. For real, for real. He was very elusive. He was hard to get to. He still is hard to get to. He still is an interesting guy. Like, he marched to beat his own drum. He like a male Lauryn Hill to me, respectfully, you know what I'm saying? Like, he do what he want to do when he want to do it. So I had all these different ideas that me and Jeremiah kicked off. And that led me to getting with Big Sean and making Bounce Back, which is another record that's nine times platinum, about to go diamond. And then that opened up door. He took me on tour with him. He did a bunch of different things and that kind of like sparked. I was the guy that had the hits early up front, and nobody had that access to that shit. And I think my work ethic just surpassed everything that. Because I knew what I was fighting against. I went through all that shit. I knew that people didn't like Youngburg so much. So I had to have an ego death of whatever it is. Imagine being praised and like you said, mamas delivering they daughters to you. Hand delivered like doordash and then now nobody with you. So I knew that I had one shot to kind of penetrate pop culture again. And I was like, yo, I'mma stay low and keep firing. I ain't gonna be all in the front of things or whatever. I'm gonna just get my shit off. And I really didn't have a tag early on. I did like John by Rick Ross and Wayne. I discovered a lot of other producers, whatever. I didn't have a tag until I said the Hitmaker shit. And it just all came into fruition. I think 2016, 2015, from 2015 to 2016 was like the beginning of just like terrorizing the industry.

[B]

You might have had the most successful rebrand.

[A]

Mm. It's a couple of us. Me, Joe Button, and 2 Chainz.

[B]

I think us three for sure. I mean, Joe is from rap to this pod media personality. Yeah. Because, you know, podcasts and still kind of look down on people, don't. You know, sometimes the big stars like podcasts, man.

[A]

Bro.

[B]

It's just not, for the most part, it's not taped in front of a live audience like Oprah or all these other shows. But it's the same. It's the same.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

The same impact.

[A]

I wish I started a podcast 10.

[B]

Years ago like that. I'm looking at some of the artists that you work with. Chris Brown, meek, Big Sean, 2 Chainz, Wayne Baby Meg, Thee Stallion, Jeremiah, Ti Youngblue, Chloe Bailey, Ja Rule, French Montana and more. When you go into the studio, do you have. I mean, before you went to the studio with these individuals, did you have an idea of what they were like or what they might be like? Or you just leave an open mind like, hey, we go in there, we're going to do this and we're going to try to make magic.

[A]

Hello, Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for business, recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network.

[B]

Slicing strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.

[A]

Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from CNN from Siemens Energy.

[C]

The ways that it can be used.

[A]

Frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have?

[C]

Smash those pain points and help you.

[A]

Deliver very specific outcomes. This is Rob Gronkowski and Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Here's your reminder to stay hydrated. Today, Liquid IV is spreading the word about the importance of hydration and the potential things to look out for. Thirst, brain fog, dark urine, nausea, fatigue, headaches and irritability. Right. And on top of that, Liquid IV has been a great partner for our podcast.

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[A]

100%. And keep an eye out for all the new content that we'll be producing.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

It don't really work like that. It's more so about with me a lot. So this is a normal idea for a producer. A normal producer, they go, they ain't got nothing. And they just go to the studio and they say okay, Chloe Bailey's coming today. Okay, all right, bet. Let's just have her come. Let's let her talk to us. Let's see what we got. Let's make a beat from scratch in front of her. Let's collab. I don't do that shit.

[B]

You already got it done. When they get there, it done.

[A]

So you literally gonna come? You gonna come talk to me, we gonna press play on some ideas and we gonna see where you get in and how you fit into this situation. I think that our process, I learned that from Pharrell and Swizz Beats more than anyone. Cause if you think about it like why you think Swizz Beats and Pharrell on all them hooks, they had that shit done for them came there. So it ain't nothing. I didn't invent the wheel. This shit been happening for a whole time. But a lot of people just, it just wasn't as over popularized in rap music because it was taboo for. For ghost writing or you know what I'm saying? Someone to help you with something. But at the same token, it's like if Drake could do it, then who can't do it, right? Everybody up in R B. If R B can do it. Why can't a rapper take a hook from me, right? And they've been doing that forever. But I just think that the. The way I've been able to maneuver through it and then also being the fact that I'm still Youngburg, that's like, the mind, right? Cause it's like, I'm still a rap. I'm still an artist, right? I'm an executive now. But at the same token, people, once you hit it off and you get some shit going, people want to see, like, what's going on over there. You know, how it go. Soon as it get hot over there, everybody want, how that gonna work for me? Let me see. Let me go and put my foot in the pool. See what happens.

[B]

Who surprised you most by the talent? Once you got him in the studio.

[A]

Who the most surprising to me about talent? I would probably have to say. Ty Dolla Sign. Really not surprising. But I was there for his whole. I feel like his manager early in his career was my manager, and we never really worked together. But I got to watch him from, like, doing songs like My Cabana. And his earlier stuff are Tooted and Booted with yg. He don't sound like this. Tooted and Booted. If you listen to Tooted the Booty right now, that shit don't even sound like Ty$, sign, right? So to see him evolve and just to know his story and just to see how it went, and to know his dad was in. Was in that great band. Excuse me. I can't remember the name, but it's missing me right now. But, like, they play every instrument. He make beats, he sing. He recorded himself. I just didn't know that, how deep in his bag he was. Yeah, for real.

[B]

Can anybody freestyle like hov? Because you hear the stories. Like hov. He's like, okay. He get on things. He hear it. He ain't saying anything. He just listening. And then he just go, today? Yeah.

[A]

Or then.

[B]

Is that what he doing now? I think Lil Wayne does that.

[A]

Everybody does that today.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Nobody writes anything.

[B]

Nobody writes anything down anymore.

[A]

No. It's all punching. Everybody just goes in a booth, and the first things that inspires them, they go. That's the same way I even write R B songs with my whole team. Go in there, boom. Do a melody. Then I'm the lyrics. You know what I'm saying? A lot of time, I might have a melody. I might have something I can give to my brother Ronnie or I can get a Chrisean or anybody I work with but at the same token, they're like kings of melody. So they'll go in, do a melody, and I'm the rapper. We connected, you know what I'm saying? And go from there.

[B]

You still got Chris Brown over Usher?

[A]

What? Of course. Paul's that, too. I don't like that.

[B]

Yeah, there you go.

[A]

But nah, who don't, though, really? And I love Usher. Me and Usher got records together, too. I love. Yo. Usher is one of the nicest guys that I've ever been around. But just for me, like, let's just output my boy Chris a workaholic. Yeah, he love it. His. His output is crazy. And then, not only that, I just think culturally, what. What he's been able to do. And just like. And I'm B man, Shannon. Don't ask me that shit. I'm biased, boy. I got like 27 hits with this. I got. I got one hit with Usher.

[B]

Well, how about this here? I mean, people been talking. People have been getting reckless with this thing. They talk about Chris Brown up there with mj.

[A]

He the Michael Jackson of our. Of our generation.

[B]

We ain't gonna never see another Michael Jordan.

[A]

Jackson, Tyson, all three of them. No, I mean.

[B]

I mean, we ain't gonna see nobody. I mean, people faint to see him. People still put on that glove. People doing. They doing plays with Michael Jackson.

[A]

Oh, yo, bitch gonna faint when she see Chris Brown, too. That's why I don't be around that nigga. I ain't gonna lie. Me and CB we work so good together.

[B]

All I do just the studio. Then what's that example?

[A]

Hell, no, I ain't going to the studio. I'm going sporadically. Yeah, but at the same token, I think that this where a lot of producers, a lot of artists, and a lot of people get up in the game and they fall out with this different shit, bro. We're in a service business. A lot of people. This where I get lost at once. It's the same thing I was doing with Jeezy and Juicy. Once I give you the song, I gotta let that motherfucker go.

[B]

Go. Right, right. I can't be holding on to it like, that's my baby.

[A]

Yes, bro. I gotta let you do what you do with this song. I got paid. Once you get paid, you gotta let it go, right? So once I'm paid, I gotta be able to step back or whatever. So I don't give a if I wrote the biggest song with Chrisean for Chris Brown featuring Michael Jackson, old vocals, Usher, and everybody in culture that could be of it. That's that man work. I, I. You can't hover over that. That's just like I. As much as your trainer was for the Broncos or your nutritionist or whatever, the.

[B]

I did the work. I did that I assisted you. Yes.

[A]

You paid me to do it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I can't be a lot of want to be the trainer nutritionist at the party with you at the. You know, that's how y' all fall out, right? Because we, we know. We all know. We all like the same thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to be around no artists with no women. That's my new rule.

[B]

Cause he go. Cause he gonna.

[A]

He don't care. You never outshine a master, bro. 48 laws of power. That's the big dog. Stay away. You stay away from. You stay away from people that you're actually making music with. Unless you're cultivating relationships and they're your artists and they're someone that you're building and growing with. Okay? It don't matter. Rapper, singer, nothing. Don't you go around that nigga with no women. Stay your ass in that studio and keep sending them record.

[B]

Cause they gonna. Because it gonna call out. Cause you know she gonna end up end over there at his place, and you gonna feel some type of way.

[A]

I don't know what it's gonna do, but I just don't even want no involvement with it.

[B]

You worked with Dre. You worked on no stylist.

[A]

Mm. And a couple more. You got a Grammy for the song Jaded, I think, too. You know what I'm saying? Salute to him. Well, I was just.

[B]

I mean, bro, you, you, it. I mean, you don't. So who would you compare yourself to a version of, say, Quincy Jones, Stevie Wonder? Who would you compare yourself to in your genre and what you do? Who's your comparison?

[A]

I think that ideally it would be more of a Quincy. We can't say the other guy name right now. Cause it's turmoil. But Diddy, you know what I'm saying? Or this, that, and the third. Because I'm not really like, I have a conglomerate of team that I work with. So I might not be just a one man band, man, like a Swizz Beats or I think people look at Swizz, Timbaland, Kanye. Not really Kanye too. You know what I'm saying? Cause he worked with a lot of different people. But I think that you get a certain. From purists, producers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you get a certain reverence from them when you just do everything yourself.

[B]

Right?

[A]

To me, that's how you fall off, really. I'm executive producing nine albums this year. How can I possibly make executive produce do every song for nine albums and have that shit and compete with what's going on by myself.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's no possible way to do that. So for me, collaboration is always key. So I'm more of a Quincy, a Diddy, a L a Reid. I would say Kanye, like, from that type of cloth or whatever, like Pharrell. I don't think nobody was unhappy. I think Pharrell just went in that bitch and smoked happy by itself.

[B]

It did all that. Yeah, but in order to do what you do, you have to be okay with other people getting credit.

[A]

Man, I want everybody to get credit to me. I ain't never been no that had ghost producers. I go on platforms like Club Shay Shay and say, I ain't programming shit unless I'm telling. I'm going in that look this direction. This the artist. This who we working with. Okay. Oh, oh, this where they going. We doing samples or whatever. I'm getting with the guy that replays all my samples and replays all my flips. I'm doing 20 of those with him. I'm sending it to a group chat with 10 producers in it. Yo, y' all do this this way. We at this motion. It's a whole team effort. So I always been, like, overly, like, into, like, biggin up people. Cause shit, what Jay Z said, we supposed to have people to be your crutches if you fall off.

[B]

Right, Right. But in this song with Drake and French Montana, Drake's gonna assist and deceased for that one. Yeah. Nah, the French song Splash Brothers.

[A]

Yeah, for Splash Brothers. See, but that's on an album that I executive produced for French Montana. So shortly after that, we did know stylist, and we had an incredible success with that. And then after that, me and French went back in and our executive produced his album. I think they Got Amnesia was the title of it. But this after he had his whole scare, his health scare, so he came back and then they had. He had a record from Drake, and I think it was seasoned assist or whatever, but I wasn't involved with the process of him and Drake record. Him and French and Drake are super close.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So he had that on his own. I was just overseeing the executive producing the whole project, so it didn't really affect me. No way or not.

[B]

You worked with Cassie and Diddy?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How was that? Because you was like, you know, you kind of like, you know, Diddy has a Lot. And we're talking about the producer. We're not talking about. We're not talking about what transpired outside of music industry. We're talking about him, the bad boy. The hiring of people and putting people in place and producing great music. That's what we're talking about. Because you know how people try to twist. They try to twist everything.

[A]

Me and Diddy have a very interesting relationship. Not in like a weird way, like, with stuff's going on personal, but just like our business relationship has always been very interesting. Just because, like, I met him early. Like, I remember I told you I was a kid star. So I met him at the kid version of me. I wasn't it. Then I blew up. He invited me to the studio. He ended up forming a relationship and a bond with one of my producers, the guy, Rob Holiday, who did all my stuff, who's with me now. And like, I. I didn't love that. Cause I felt like he was like stealing my sound.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, I felt like me and Rob, like, I felt like I discovered Rob and we cultivated something together that I didn't realize was bigger than me at that time. I felt like it was our thing. But in hindsight, it's really bigger than me. It's culture. It's for everybody. It wasn't for me just to hoard and have on the side. And he ended up stealing my producer. He did it.

[B]

He took him. Yeah.

[A]

At least for me. I mean, nigga got a jet, nigga a billionaire. I ain't got shit, nigga. I'm going through turmoil. I told you, I'm blackballed. He ain't really stealing shit. Like, nigga, he like, how you gonna tell your guy not to go get on a jet with somebody or whatever and do that? But then that happened. And then Cassie, to me, always just a super sweet, sweet woman. I never really had too many interactions with her besides her just coming to do the song. And she may be a little kiki, back and forth, whatever. That was always his woman. So you already know how I play.

[B]

I don't do that. Ain't nobody. I ain't falling out with nobody. That's your woman. But for the most part, guys have gotten kind of like, look, my lady, I ain't gonna even have her around the guys. Cause I don't want no temptation on either part.

[A]

Yeah, but he. I think he had work facilities also at his homes too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Throughout the years. So it would kind of be hard to not be around. It would just be more so about how you want to handle yourself when you're around.

[B]

Yeah. You got to be professional.

[A]

Nah, for sure.

[B]

Don't ask no questions. Don't even have no conversation.

[A]

Yeah, respect, man.

[B]

New artist. Who's the best new artist out? Cause, you know, the Grammys just happened. I mean, we gonna find out tonight, aren't we?

[A]

Yeah. If we talking Grammys. To me, Leon Thomas.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He made a real impact for the culture this year. Kalani, for sure, with the folded record. But on a new artist scale, like I said to me, the biggest new artists in the game right now, the people that I'm developing, curating, I just was involved with getting Gilly and wallowed a label deal at Epic Records. Salute to all my partners over there at Epic. His daughter, Gilly's daughter. Her name is New York La.

[B]

Yep. Yep.

[A]

She's amazing.

[B]

Yeah, she is.

[A]

I executive produced that album. Hit every song on that album. That's my family. I love them. My brother Ronnie, who's amazing. Dream Doll, who's amazing. Toy Ann, who's amazing. One of my biggest priorities on my label, Tink, who's also someone I'm super close with. Her new album is amazing. I swear, Vezzo, we're about to drop a new album. That's amazing. I'm kind of. I'm booked and busy. I got, like, nine.

[B]

You like being booked and busy, though, don't you?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. I like shitting on people with music. I love to work shitting on people.

[B]

Samples. How do you go talk to us about samples?

[A]

Come on.

[B]

How do you go about. Because you know, who is that? Somebody? Say Prince. Like, nah, I love your music, but I ain't clearing it. Cause he didn't want somebody. He didn't want those execs to eat or send their kids to college off of that. So talk to us about sampling. How do you go about sampling a song?

[A]

When I initially set out on doing this whole shit, like, I ain't gonna lie, like. And I'm still giving his respect and his flowers due to the situation. I said, being around Diddy and being around this shit, I was like, I'm gonna be the puff daddy of my generation.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So you know what he did for those samples from the 80s and earlier times? I said, man, I'm finna go, and I'm finna just flip everything that I liked that was on 106 and park that I grew up on and bet Rap City and all this MTB, TRL, the shit that impacted me. And I set out on a mission to really do that consciously. And I didn't know that I was doing it at that point. But the way I went about it is that I ended up meeting a guy named Paul Cabin who's amazing. He's like one of the best guys I ever worked with in my life. And this. He replays all them samples. So whether it's a 2 Chainz featuring Ariana Grande, used to it. That's a triple platinum record that we got together and I flipped Amerie. Why don't we fall in love on that record? That's not a sample. It's all a replay. So a lot of my music, it feels like a sample, but it's been replayed. So I found the right guy that can really go and manifest what my vision is. And he's been a life changer and a game saver for me.

[B]

Are samples expensive?

[A]

Hell, yeah. On both ways. You gotta pay money up front. The advance and they taking. Realistically, like anybody lying and say that they ain't take half of the song, they lying. They take half your publishing. Really? 50.

[B]

So you gotta pay them and they still get money on the back end.

[A]

50% of the song. So say I was in this interview and I said a line from Jay Leno, Jay Leno could send you an invoice for $20,000 and want 50% of this episode. That's how they play. But if you go replay it and you don't, that's if you use the master. That's why I got with Paul and start replaying things. If you use the master. If I just go, like, take the drum loop from impeach the president for Eric B. You know what I'm saying? Eric B and Rakim, they gonna charge for that. It's the master use of the sample. Now if I go and I rework it and make it in my own and replay it, then it's gonna be a lighter percentage, but it's still gonna be a percentage. Oh, okay.

[B]

So kinda like Marvin Gaye when his estate. Who is that?

[A]

Pharrell.

[B]

Pharrell and Brahmin thicke. Cause they got to get up.

[A]

Yep, that was a replay. And that's why Pharrell thought he was safe, because you can tell that man, bro, everything. Pharrell is one of the greatest ever. But in my opinion, and you can tell, like, he's a fan of culture. He loves the people before him a lot. All his records come inspired by something. Think about hot and so hot in here. Yeah, that's Chuck Brown.

[B]

Yeah, everybody. Don't Chuck Brown soul Sucks to say.

[A]

Still a little bit of the whole shit, but you can't. Don't nobody know that. You know what I'm saying? So he's always. I feel like busting loose. And Nelly said, I feel like touching you. He said in the song. So the culture and him being a student is never left. I'm just more of a blatant student. Like, I'm gonna give you like the Diddy. The big sample as well too.

[B]

What was the song is hard. What was the hardest song to get cleared?

[A]

Damn sure they still clearing right now. Shit. I'm trying to think the hardest one that probably came out to be cleared. I don't know none. I'm gonna be honest with you though. Cause publishers, songwriters that haven't passed. Oh, no. The hardest song to get clear is Michael Jackson. I have a song called Transparency with Chris Brown that he put out. He didn't put it out. He just soft launched it and it got leaked or something like that. And Team Breezy went crazy. It went crazy to the point that the man still performed the song. He performed it on his last tour. It was just a leak. It's a cult favorite. And rest in peace, Rod Temperton. I think his estate wouldn't allow us to clear it. We couldn't get all the situation. Connect the T's and dot the I's.

[B]

Yeah, because he wrote cj. What? We try to get nice on a Broadway Chuck George Benson song.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

[B]

Yeah, man. I said, oh, no, I can't pay that.

[A]

Yeah. So I wasn't able to. We weren't able to get that cleared. And then this the funny part when we talking about CB And Usher. This the whole funniest shit. So at that point, you know, I told you I got a bunch of demos or whatever. So before CB Ended up cutting the song, I ended up playing it for 2 Chainz, who also is one of my big. He, my big og, you know what I'm saying? So he get a pass on everything for me. I give him whatever he want. So I played it for him. He liked it. Told him about the song clearance. CB we couldn't get it cleared. It was CB Single, couldn't get it cleared. Chains was, I still want a song. Y' all can't get it cleared. He like, let's go replay it. He got with Mike Dean, he replayed it. He ended up putting Usher on a song. And Usher re sang the part that CB was singing it. And it was on Khalid Grove too. It was Wayne 2 Chainz and Usher. And it had mild success, but it wasn't as incredible as the initial one. Wow.

[B]

So as a producer of the song, what percentage? What's the percentages? Like, so you could. So you on the song, you the producer. You taking 50%.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

So for me, in 2026, I ain't working with you unless you're doing pop splits. See, it's nigga splits and it's pops.

[B]

Okay. Okay. What's a pop split?

[A]

It's 100% of the pie, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's four people in a room.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't care who made the beat, who wrote the song, and we all get 20.

[B]

Everybody get 20.

[A]

We in a room.

[B]

25, you mean?

[A]

Yeah, 25. Skinny. We all get 25.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Nigga splits. Yeah, I made the beat. I want 50%. I don't care who wrote it. Eight, nine people could have wrote that song. I want 50% of it. Cause I made the beat. And that's the difference between that. So I just want to be. And not to say I do that, because I told you I work with a lot of different people. So I'll probably. With me writing the songs and doing that, I probably get. If I was doing split still, I would give my co producers 40% of the beat. I take 10 to 15%. Maybe. Maybe they get 35, maybe I get 15. And then I combine that with what I wrote on the top line with the artist, and maybe they make away with 35, and I make away with 30. 25, depending on me and Chrisean how we split it up. But that's really whole play.

[B]

Oh, so do they sign paperwork?

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

Cause you know, a bad. I thought bad. I thought. I thought we were cool.

[A]

Nah, it ain't none of that. This high level, you know how that go. Like, it ain't nobody, anybody that's in my room. I've cultivated the room to where if you in it, you in it. And it ain't no mysterious that's sitting on the couch scratching his balls. I wrote that line like, nah, it ain't happening like that. You gotta quality control your room, my brother. Like, it just hit a little bit different. But that's what the beauty of having finances, resources, to have your own studio to make your own decisions, to have your own setup to do all. You know what I'm saying? You get to control the environment. I think that it only gets tricky when you walk into somebody else shit and then you gotta play by they rules. Kind of like remind me like when I work with Mustard and shit like that.

[B]

Oh, Lord. You ain't got nothing bad to say about Mustard?

[A]

Hell no. Okay, good. Maybe.

[B]

Is there anything that you've written for other artists that people would be surprised that you actually wrote?

[A]

Hell yeah. I would probably say like all the female verses. Cause that's what the tricky thing is about, like this whole music business, Shannon. And I feel bad. And this goes back to my relationship life. It goes back to everything that's happening in the world. Men influence female rap more than publicized or let known. So when you see women putting out the energy of city girls, or you gotta buy me this or this, that. And third, I need the Birkin. I need the G wagon. I need. There's a strong percentage that a man influenced that lyric and then a man wrote that lyric. And I've been that mad before. So in reality, that might be my most. Not my highlight, you know what I'm saying? Because I'm sad about that shit. I don't want these girls telling me that shit. Like it's a mentality now. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Like, people really think that that comes with an expectation, but it's writing it. Yeah.

[A]

While they go in a booth and say it. And they go home today, the husband and do what they do. So it's like it's a double. I'm up for you, gang. I'm up for me, for everybody.

[B]

Do you make. Have you ever made a rapper redo his verse? Do they feel some type of way if you.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

I mean. I mean. Cause they might feel some type of way here.

[A]

If you didn't want to feel no type of way, go do that shit at home. Why you coming to work with me? You want perfection, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You want me to push you to another level, right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You come to me to get a hit record. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So whether I want you to do an ad lib over or a verse over or whatever. But I ain't gonna lie, like, it's been very rare to where I'm having like drawn out conversations or fights or something like that. To me, Dr. Dre and I think that he's the king of making somebody redo they shit over and over again. He's more meticulous. Cause he's thinking. He's like that and. And that then. Or the way you said the. Doesn't really connect with me. It doesn't fit to me. All my music about feeling. Shannon, I'm going to the studio. I'm getting up and we having A good time. If it feel good, it gotta feel good. Mumble that shit. You done heard Young Thug rap these damn songs. You don't know what the nigga said, but the whole shit, but the feeling was irreplaceable. And that's what I'm chasing. A lot of people are chasing perfection. I found beauty in an imperfection, and that's what I'm more concerned with.

[B]

Wow. I like that. I really do. So I think you mentioned this. You don't have a problem with Ghost Riders?

[A]

Hell, no. That's like hating on me.

[B]

But. What? Cause you know, I hear you're not a true mc. If you had somebody to get on you. What is that about?

[A]

If I had a Ghost Rider, Shannon, I wouldn't have sold drugs as a kid. I could have stayed in my house and not do nothing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Somebody could have did something for me and put me in a different position. I just think that a lot of different people are so caught up into Go Ro. When you realize that the ultimate warrior, just some random looking white man when he take that shit off, bro. Yeah, it you up?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You want Stone Cold to be Stone Cold off the camera.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it don't work like that. You know what I'm saying? So in reality, the business is bigger than what you the influence.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And sometimes the influence can be bigger than the business. Think about an artist like Playboi Carti, man. Don't do no interviews, man. Don't talk to nobody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This, that, and the third sell out of Arena. So it's really about what fits you.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like if I was. Who's a producer, that don't really talk at all. Like, I'm trying to think like that. Don't really say no words in this climate right now. Dr. Luke Max Martin. You ever heard of them? I have the biggest in the game. You wanna know why they don't talk?

[B]

What?

[A]

Cause, man, only black people like to talk. White people. Don't be saying shit them up, up, up, up. We want people to understand us and understand what we went through for the culture.

[B]

Right?

[A]

We concerned about culture. They concerned about currency. And I want currency. I ain't gonna lie. I'm trying to get the balancing act for this culture shit, this currency. For real? For real. Cause I could be saying too much right now.

[B]

You trying to get a bill, huh?

[A]

A big bill, two, three, something like that. You know what I'm saying? Generational wealth.

[B]

Yeah. Has an artist ever tried to take a song that you had already promised to another artist?

[A]

Every day, right?

[B]

Now how do you handle that?

[A]

No, they.

[B]

Come on, hey, whatever they paying, I got you. I'm a double it.

[A]

Where do I see your career going? I can't be bought right now in that aspect. If we got a. A list artist, if I got Nicki Minaj that want a record and I got someone that's developing that wants a record, even though the developing artist wants to pay me triple what Nicki Minaj wants to pay me, I'm not in a financial situation or a bind to where, like I gotta make that decision. I'm operating out of, you know, I'm not operating. Yeah. Duress. I'm not moving like that. So I'm able to make the strategic move that could be best for me and my team.

[B]

Is there a song that you've ever given to an artist and it's never been released?

[A]

Yeah, all the time.

[B]

Well, damn well take it back and let somebody else release it.

[A]

I mean, I could do that now. When I was a smaller producer, I couldn't do that now. It's just like I don't give a. You know what I'm saying? Like, you gonna have to deal with me. You gotta work your way up to be a staple in the business to where you can make decisions like that, to where it won't be a backlash on you. You can give the wrong record away. Like, and there is royalty for records. Like, there is a certain Jay Z come say he want this, this and that. Man, ain't nobody gonna hear that shit. Nikki say she want this, this and this. Ain't nobody gonna hear that. But if it's a developing act or someone that I feel like doesn't have as much cachet or to even say that to me, they already know that they. That they gotta pay first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You like this record or you like it? You want it to be yours?

[B]

Pay right.

[A]

Pay up front. A small 50. 50,000.

[B]

Yeah. Ain't nothing behove and Nikki, you good?

[A]

Hello, Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for business recording another episode of revisionist history about how 5G network.

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[B]

We set that to the side for you.

[A]

Yeah, bro. Nicki probably got songs from me that I don't even remember no more. That's just sitting on her hard drive or this, that and the third. Like. But she got that seniority. I mean, she helped change my life. Wow.

[B]

What are you. Where? Streaming. Where are you on streaming? Cause a lot of artists, a lot of artists they like, bro, I don't know.

[A]

I'm sitting somewhere in like 25, 27, almost 30 billion streams. I don't you like it?

[B]

No. You don't like it?

[A]

I don't got 30 billion in my account.

[B]

You mean that make good money? I mean Drake doing. I mean Drake has already done a billion. A billion streams.

[A]

This I know. The money is in radio, Shannon.

[B]

Is it radio?

[A]

Yes, it's in performance. This is what the real deal is, right? I can compare Spotify, Apple, and everyone to for you where you can get a real idea about it. They're TV networks.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

NFL gotta deal with them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Where the your money? You was in the NFL, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did you get a check from abc?

[B]

Nah.

[A]

Right, Right. So that's how hard it is to get a check from streaming.

[B]

Oh, so hey, so somebody making the money and then they give you a little bit of the money.

[A]

Yeah, but it's only a few companies in this business, gang. Universal pretty much owns the whole music business. Okay, so if Universal goes and does a deal with Spotify, Apple Music for their artists, they received a large lump sum, right. They ain't worried about that trickle down effect.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You get a.

[B]

The top artist is gonna make their money. The Taylor Swift, the Drakes, they gonna get good money.

[A]

I don't even think that they even care about they streaming money.

[B]

Really?

[A]

No. Maybe at some point. But that won't trump the branding, that won't trump the touring, that won't trump anything else. The radio spans, these are all people that are Hot 100 artists on the radio. Right? So it wouldn't, it wouldn't, it wouldn't. It would be a drop in a bucket compared to where they getting other finances from.

[B]

Yeah, I see what Taylor and Beyonce make touring, I want.

[A]

Yeah, for real. Lord have mercy. I mean, but it's still like. I don't know if that's enough either, huh? No, it's a production. The bigger the money, the bigger the show.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. So if you heard about that money that Taylor Swift gave all the people all that money.

[A]

No. What's they saying?

[B]

What? How much you give him, CJ? I think like 500,000 a piece.

[A]

I don't listen to what white people do with their money. Cause it don't. It ain't in my world.

[B]

You write a song for Taylor, would you?

[A]

Hell yeah, I write a nigga. I write the rest of her career. How many more albums you got in your Tayfe you talking about? But no, that's gonna make sense.

[B]

There's almost 200 million in bonuses.

[A]

I'm gonna be honest though. Like Taylor Swift, she at that, that moment too. If I got 200 million in bonuses to get out, then I' ma just be a novelty artist. I'm gonna pop out when I want to.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Pop out here now and then I ain't then whatever. When is enough enough? How much is an. All right, so look, let me ask you a question. Damn.

[B]

Yeah, I.

[A]

It ain't no difference between 50 million and 100 million. I think if you got 50, you could do what the guy with a hundred is doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When is it enough?

[B]

Well, Elon Musk worth three quarters of a trillion, and he don't seem to think it's enough. You know what I mean? I guess. I mean, when you look at these guys and they got 100 billion and 200 and 300 and 400 billion, that's. I mean, that's 50 generations worth of money. As long as I can still provide for myself and provide for my family, I'm good. I'm good. Long as when I leave here, I can leave something for my kids and the people that I love, I can take care of them.

[A]

My boy, you lying.

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

You lying. Why we doing this interview then?

[B]

What you mean?

[A]

Cause you got it already, gang.

[B]

No, I ain't got it like that now.

[A]

Oh, man. Oprah.

[B]

No, Oprah. No, Oprah got it. Oprah got it like that.

[A]

She fell back.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, she fell back. Oprah got it like that. But I think the thing. Look, coming from where it. Look, you had it. You know, your mom and your dad, they had money. We didn't have money like that. And to be able to get now and to, like, when my sister come stay and to, you know, whatever she wants to, you know. You know, she just loves water. Like, oh, my God. My sister probably drank. She's been here three weeks. Probably didn't drink, like 10 cases of water.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. The aquapona. Where's she going? To the Saratoga.

[B]

She's like, what's the water I drink, Jordan? And not essence.

[A]

Essence.

[B]

Essential. Essentia.

[A]

Essentia. Yeah, essentia, too.

[B]

I mean, you know, she likes the food. I mean, she don't really want to go anywhere, so she have my assistant instacart all the stuff to the house and she just, you see, she don't wanna go anywhere. But. That's nice. And my mom. To be able to take care of my mom and buy my mom a car and let her come to Vegas, you know, go. Go to the casino.

[A]

Well, I'm finna be on your watch. But this, what my therapist did. Shannon, what is enough for you? You got one life to live. You one person. When you get in that grave, you ain't taking nothing by yourself.

[B]

By myself, by my lonesome.

[A]

What is enough for you? And we can't never answer that motherfucking question.

[B]

That's why I said it ain't never gonna happen. No, no, you're right. Jim Jones told you not to do reality tv. Do you regret not doing it?

[A]

I did it.

[B]

You did it.

[A]

I was on love and hip hop. Why you do that? See, I was up.

[B]

You up or you were up?

[A]

Both, in reality. I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, I told you, I came back with Tamar Events or whatever, and it convinced me to move to la. And then the girl Hazel E was like, yeah, we're doing love and hip hop. Ray J's doing it, this, that, and the third. And I had known her, you know what I'm saying, from the past. And I was like, fuck it. Okay, I do. I do it. But at that time, I was advised by higher up. Like, I was working close with Diddy, I was working close with Nikki. And Nikki had, like, business with Mona Scott at the time. They had like a mixed moscato or something like that. They had alcoholic beverage together. So I think that love and hip hop was kind of like her guilty pleasure at the time. And I asked her, I'm like, yo, if I decide to do this, would you be comfortable with me saying that I'm working with you? And while this is going on? And she said, yeah. So once they both gave me the green light to say I can say that I'm working with them while I'm doing the show, I just felt like I trumped everybody that was on the show. Cause I was actively making hit records at the right. This is the beginning of my career. This is 2014.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I was speaking to existing and alluding to where I felt like my career was going.

[B]

Wow, you make good money that.

[A]

Hell, no.

[B]

But they make good money on those shows.

[A]

They made you drink enough. You drank like you was getting good money. See what I'm talking about? And that's what's so crazy about doing them type of shows, though. Cause it's like, boom, this early, before I knew anything. So you go to the. You do the show. I'm talking about Unc. I'm head to toe in Zara. You go spend your little money at Zara to get fresh. And then I ain't had no car at the time or whatever. So they send you a car to come pick you up. The van or SUV or whatever form of transportation they use at the time, come pick you up. It's a rock in the car. They pouring you up, off you get in, you drinking, vibing, doing whatever you do. They drive you around, sit you somewhere for like an hour and a half. So now two hours. So you just drinking on the phone, kicking it this that and third, you got a nice little buzz going, right? Then they say, congratulations. Your worst enemy is right here behind door number two. Here's the beats that you gotta hit, nigga. Now go ahead. Action.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

And then that's the show. So you gotta kinda navigate through that. And I think that people operate negatively and don't make the best decisions out of that. Sit. Cause they drunk when they do that, for sure. And them niggas on coke and all type of shit. Them niggas was tripping to be wilding like that. I ain't never did coke in my life. I'm just with an ecstasy popper. I ain't never really did none of that shit.

[B]

Well, you don't do the ecstasy, you don't do the pills no more.

[A]

Hell, no. 40 years old, fucking. I'mma die tomorrow. Gonna be rough after this shit.

[B]

What do you think about Cardi? Cardi took the reality show and turned it into a very, very promising. That ain't promising. She here. I like Cardi. It can't nobody make me hurt.

[A]

Love her.

[B]

I love her.

[A]

Worked with her before. She great people. But anybody that lay eyes on Cardi B in that moment or whatever, they seen what she was doing. Large personalities sometimes are bigger than the room. Might be bigger than the phone, might be bigger than a tv. So when you connect that, but with a hit record, magic, you get wet ass. Wow.

[B]

It's just her personality. I mean, she is who she is. She's unapologetically Cardi B.

[A]

And still is, though.

[B]

Yes, absolutely.

[A]

I pray for the grace. Yo, yo. A lot of people get a lot of grace. I think that me and you be thinking a lot of things, but we don't be able to say it. But, man, I be jealous of the. Like, I be telling Gilly this shit. Like, you know, Gilly will get on there and be like, you, you bum. Y' all need to. I'm like, I could never say that type of shit.

[B]

They gonna fry me the up for sure.

[A]

People got that grace. She got that grace.

[B]

Yeah. Why do you think she's been so successful?

[A]

Cause she know what it like to be for nobody to like her. The same thing that I went through. I remember Cardi B, and she don't even remember it. But I was in Sue's Rendezvous when Cardi B was a stripper. She was always popular, but they wasn't checking for her the way they checking for her now. So I think that fear of the bottom is always gonna be the motivation for anybody like us. Anybody that's went through trials and tribulations that know what it's like or to see where people not like you like that. You always have an overwhelming fear. I heard Jimmy Iovine say this once. I use fear as a tailwind. So as much as fear is like in my face or whatever, I'm putting it at my boat and allowing it to push me all the way through.

[B]

What is it about rappers, celebs, entertainer, athletes, traveling the same date, the same woman.

[A]

I ain't never did that. You did never.

[B]

You ain't date Fetty Wap.

[A]

Babymore salute to Fetty Wap. I'm actually working heavily with Fetty Wap right now. Like, we got so much shit. Oh, my God. I wanna leak the stories, but Fetty Wap got some of the greatest. Yo, bro, his come home right now. I just left New York working with him right now. But I dated her prior to.

[B]

So you dated somebody that somebody else had. I just asked you that.

[A]

I know Masika from Chicago. And we weren't dating like that. We were really friends. Like, she was really my friend and we were on a TV show and like, they put me in transparently when I did Loving hip hop. Right. They do a whole cast party before we start shooting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was another cast mate on the show that I respect enough to not even say her name or whatever. But she was my woman at the time too. When we started the show and Hazel and Masika and everybody were on the show while we filmed it, she ended up parting ways with the show and parting ways with me while we were filming. And then they turned up these different relationships inside of the show. So once they turnt up the situation with me and Hazel after I was already dealing with the other woman on the show, me and Masika were really friends and she was my drinking partner. We would hang out, be creative or whatever. And once they said that, yo, like, would you ever kiss Masika? The staff suggested that and you did it. You right.

[B]

But you know that who that was.

[A]

I was her actor at that point.

[B]

There ain't no actor.

[A]

She is. I'm acting. But she wasn't his baby mama at the time.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

They dated after him that situation.

[B]

So that theoretically you were first.

[A]

Man, I ain't claiming that.

[B]

Okay, but you and Bow Wow dated the same woman.

[A]

That woman was on the TV show.

[B]

I just said, you and Bow Wow dating the same woman.

[A]

And that woman, who I won't say her name, was on the TV show and was my girlfriend on the show before that last situation. Them Other two situations we talking about, she was the one that got relieved from the TV show.

[B]

So. But.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

Nah, but I'm saying. But y'.

[A]

All.

[B]

But I mean, he kind of felt. Probably felt some kind of way about that.

[A]

Nah, that was before him, so I was first. Oh, Lord.

[B]

I ain't know this was a race.

[A]

You heard Ray J. I hit it first. I hate it.

[B]

I. Oh, my goodness.

[A]

I'm joking.

[B]

What is it about? It's because celebs, athletes, influence, entertainers, they all like the same type of woman. The same type of woman are in that area. I mean, you know, if you're in the Serengeti, a lion will hunt. Wildebeest, elon, kudu. I mean. Cause that's what's in proximity. So what's in proximity to you is what's in proximity to other rapper and producers.

[A]

I got highs. These women are beautiful, but, you know, she belong.

[B]

If she been with somebody else you don't like. Well, she done been with somebody else she done been with.

[A]

Uh, you keep forgetting. I landed on Plymouth Rock first. I'm older than these.

[B]

But look here. Hey, look here. You done bought a secondhand car then. I've been a used car now. You ain't always been driving that firsthand car.

[A]

I ain't had no secondhand car since I got a Monte Carlo back when I was, like, 17. I had a Monte Carlo. A used Monte Carlo on 22s. I called that bitch Big Bird. It was canary yellow. But I ain't had a hand down since. How you feel about that? Would you date somebody that you know? Hey, yo, you. Yeah, come on.

[B]

Oh, you gotta flip the table off.

[A]

Yeah. This shit ain't just in rap.

[B]

Yeah, athletes. Yeah, for sure.

[A]

It's more in football. And let's be clear, football niggas the worst.

[B]

Why they the worst?

[A]

The biggest tricks.

[B]

I ain't no football with the biggest player I see.

[A]

Football trick more than basketball.

[B]

What?

[A]

Helmet syndrome. You know them, you know, y' all. First name, last name.

[B]

Yeah, but they don't see us like they do the basketball player.

[A]

Cause we know who changed my life, too. I gotta salute em. Ryan McKinney. When I moved to Miami, he started his own record label. After I went through all my shit or whatever, blah, blah, blah. I was revamping on me becoming hitmaker. He bought me a condo at the Icon Brickell in Miami or whatever. Paid for it for the whole year and allowed me just to work or whatever and do my whole shit. And, man, first name, last name. I seen that Run through millions. I seen that burn at least 20 million in my face.

[B]

What?

[A]

First name, last name. You know, that helmet syndrome. You just one of them. So you can't relate, you know, as a producer out there, that can't relate to what the I'm doing right now too, right?

[B]

Oh, for sure, absolutely.

[A]

Say less.

[B]

But what have you learned about mixing business with pleasure?

[A]

Oh, man. Get ready for the fireworks to fly.

[B]

No, but you can't put your dick in your wallet, though. Here, man.

[A]

Uh, see, can't do that, though. Um. Making a song is a sexual experience. Creating music might be the closest thing to sex possible, but just leave it at it.

[B]

Be close. Don't go to don't.

[A]

Well, the two situations I had, the girl that's saying the business or whatever, like, that was really like my girlfriend at the time, like my side. Well, not really. I hate to say that. She was someone I was dating. And the other girl that you're alluding to that. I feel like the questions are leading us to.

[B]

No, we ain't mention no name. We gonna stay clear today.

[A]

Okay, so that woman, she's also someone that was. That still is a best friend of me. We started off as best friends, and we still are best friends. We go through bullshit or. And we've been through some bullshit. But at the same token, it wasn't necessarily like, you can hire me and I can go work with an artist and never speak to them. These were personal buildings that happened. It wasn't about, like, the way I came in. It wasn't like. Here's the example. It wasn't like a list. I'm a list. And then we go and we hit it off and then we get. And we know that we on bullshit. Get into it. This is some developing shit. We meeting each other on a. On a real personal level, and it turned into something and now it's. The songs and the music then got bigger than what we even know what we doing.

[B]

Personally, I read that a woman tried to set you up by getting your house robbed.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

She did, huh? She did.

[B]

She did. Like, literally.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Boy, I don't know what have I got myself in with this here, man? So she pinned. So she. She. She pinned your location?

[A]

Yeah. Well, for the in depth deep dive on that situation, I'mma tell you the truth, man. And this where that horny come in too. So I was. It was the first day of CO in la. You probably still living in LA too.

[B]

I was.

[A]

Remember, they shut us down the first day. It was kind of Damaged.

[B]

Nobody was shut down like California.

[A]

Oh, they shouldn't.

[B]

Wasn't nothing open. I'm talking about absolutely nothing. I mean, the 405, bro.

[A]

They shut us.

[B]

I could do the centipede in the 405 and never get run over.

[A]

They shut us the down, son. They did. You know what I did? I got on a computer, I got in a vibe. Oh, can't go nowhere. Had me some drinks, some libations. I'm just vibing throughout the day, making music, calling co producers, calling people I'm working with. Just, you know, like, how you surviving a Covid, you know, just being creative. So when you day drink, you crash at some point. Yeah, so I crashed about. I cooked me a dinner. Day drank, cooked me a dinner, five, six, fell asleep. Woke up about midnight. You know when you wake up at midnight, right? That phone thing close to you? Yeah, I get the scroller. Okay, what you doing? Who live? Why you live? What you doing live? And it closed down. Throwing ass on the live. This, that and the third. So I'm like, you know what? Sent her a little. No, I just sent her a little comment in the live. She get off live and jump in my text. Hey, babe, where you at? What you doing? Blah, blah, blah. Shit, I'm at home. She me. When I'm doing, I'm at home. Same thing you doing. She like, send me an Uber. I'm like, all right, BET. Sent her a Uber. She kindled my crib. And at that time, I mean, it's all passed or whatever. So, boom, she opened my door. I got my gun on me, off the rip, Just like come in, gun on me. I put the alarm on. Stay. You know how you can set it up the way. Now, look, my house was set up so interesting at the time at Willing Hill. So boom, first floor of my house, when you let her in. Laundry room, studio office, second floor. I got elevators in the. But second floor, guest room, guest room, master bedroom, third floor, living room, dining room, kitchen, pool, Jacuzzi, all the other shit. So it was set up really interesting. So now when she's on her way to the crib, she like, babe, heat the Jacuzzi up. Blah, blah, blah. You know, in my mind I'm like, this is cold as hell outside. You better come eat this dick. Ain't nobody going to no motherfucking Jacuzzi.

[B]

Okay, yeah, okay, I get what you. I get with you.

[A]

Ain't nobody going to no Jacuzzi. You know how cold it. You think we finna be just outside?

[B]

Yeah, that was February, you know?

[A]

Yeah. So, boom, she get there. We vibing. We go in the house. Now, look, I'm so first time, Covid. I'm doing the lamest shit ever. I got sorry out. We playing board games. I'm drinking, doing whatever with the girl. So we vibing, and I'm chilling with her just like I'm chilling with you. I turn my back, I'm cooling. I turn around, next down.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

She slapped this out me.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yes. So, like, I'm seeing, like, stars fly around my head like Tweety Bird or whatever. I'm like, what the going on, girl? And slapped me. So, boom. I'm working for Atlantic. So I grab him. I'm like, yo, what the you doing? Pull out my phone, start filming her. That's the first thing that come to my mind. Like, yo, I work for this public. I work for this company. Yeah, I'm this. I don't know what the going on. So I'm filming her. She like. She ain't say no words. She go look out by my pool, looking. She getting. She come back, sit down. Next thing I know, my whole alarm going off. So now I'm in that motherfucker. I grabbed my gun. I'm like. I don't know what the going on. So, like, I got my gun, and like, I'm looking, I'm pointing it towards the pool. I see walking, running by my pool and hoodies and shit like that. I'm holding a gun like this. What you think happened next?

[B]

She tried to wrestle the gun from me, Bow.

[A]

She punched me right in my shit. So now I got the gun. I'm fighting with this young lady while we in this or whatever. Like, yo, I'm screaming at her, yo, stop, please. What are you doing? She fighting with me. I ain't happy about this shit. I had to split her. Pow. Hit her once, pow. Hit her twice with the gun. The gun go off, bow. So now people thinking that, like, I guess the probably thought I shot her, you know what I'm saying, And killed her. Whatever. So now they at my front door. They at this. You know what I'm saying? All this shit documented, so I don't have a problem. And I ain't never spoke candidly about this heavily either. So they at my front door, kicking, but the alarm going off. So they know it's a short amount of time for the police. They had to leave. So, boom, police come. My security come. Guess who good friends with the police that come? My security, ex LAPD officer. So they in there. She won't open her phone. She won't do nothing. They finally did whatever they did, which is none of my business. I wasn't even privy to that and I don't know what happened. Whatever. So she opened the phone, she dropped Location. My location. Hello, Malcolm Glau here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for Business recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network.

[B]

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[A]

A couple other famous celebrities locations that Lived in this shit or whatever that. And I just was on that list. So from there she went. My security team got me. They took me from my house at Woodland Hills at the time. They took me towards Topanga Mall or whatever. And I guess, like a little Hilton over there or whatever, they put me in a Hilton. I went to sleep, woke up the next day. The woman in my phone, you gotta pay me $250,000 for what you did to me. This, that, and the third. I had my security take her home. She sent a picture. She like, I'm gonna go on the Internet this. And the third, blah, blah, blah. I'd already lawyered up by then. My lawyer said, don't speak to nothing, don't do nothing or whatever. She came out with that shit. My lawyer had already communicated with Atlantic Records and everything that was going on to explain the situation through the grace of God. I had all type of security cameras at my house, so I was able to put on my Instagram to show multiple men passing guns through my shit. They was able to put on my surveillance in the house of her putting her hands on me, fighting me, punching me, and doing all this other stuff. And then at that point, bro, I left LA and I just went and I was just like. I felt like I was like, fibel Goes West. Like, I had a tree branch and a bandana with my things in it, just going. I'm just bouncing around and still trying to work and do whatever I gotta do. And then, I ain't gonna lie, I just bought. That was like my first home purchase. Cause, you know, I was renting house. I was doing a dummy renting a 12,000, 15,000amonth house, doing all this shit full of. That was my first home that I purchased. And I felt really accomplished for purchasing that home. And then I had to sell the house. Somehow she ended up dying in the midst of that shit or whatever.

[B]

The.

[A]

She disappeared off the face of the earth. And when all the truth came to the light, I was vindicated and I was able to continue on my career.

[B]

Did they find the guys that were trying to break into your home? You don't even care about that. We talked earlier and you mentioned, like, yeah, I would like to find somebody, but if I don't, I really want kids. I really want. I really want a hit maker, Junior.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

I mean, don't you want, like, I had the discussion I, like, earlier. It's like, don't you want that person to be with like, honey, I'm home. Hey, boy.

[A]

Hey, Junior.

[B]

Don't you want that?

[A]

I just don't know how realistic it is, Shay. It ain't real. You got that at home?

[B]

No, I work into.

[A]

How do you earn?

[B]

I'm 57. I'll be 58 in June.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

But see, I made the mistake that you make.

[A]

What?

[B]

I put work in front of everything. And I missed out on a lot of great relationships.

[A]

Would you rather be up and without a woman, or would you rather be with the woman and not as up as you are?

[B]

You want me to tell you God honest truth? Yep. I'd rather be knotted up as much and have somebody for real. I do it.

[A]

But the thing is, I don't think you easy to get along with. Cause I ain't. Cause I ain't.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

I need, like, I need to be showered with love, but I know I need my space too.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I need to, like. Are you a Cancer? Yeah. No, I'm a Virgo. Like, yo, I need. I might be the hardest person to be in a relationship with. And I'm totally, like, understanding to the woman.

[B]

I mean, I've kind of let some of my, you know, my idiosyncrasies out and people like, oh, you do too much. You know, I'm a neat freak. I'm a clean freak. Don't leave dishes in the sink. Don't. Hey, turn the fan on when you take a shower. Cause I don't want you to fog up the mirrors. Hey, close the door when you go to the bathroom. Don't be passing gas in front of me. I can't do nothing.

[A]

Oh, I ain't did none of that. You. Yo, I'mma be honest. You know why I want.

[B]

I'm with you. Yo. Yo, you might be my daddy.

[A]

Boy, you talking like this. But I don't do none of that. Boy, you old enough to be my daddy. You 58. I'm about to be 40, and you could have had me at 18. Boy, I can't have no. Ain't everything that you said on that list. Ain't no way. None. I can't. I can't. I can't rock with none of that. But it is some. Some that's gonna be less of a man. That's gonna let their whole damn. Don't let their young lady defecate on theyself next to them. That's gonna do all the weird. It's gonna let her. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

You know what I get. Everybody go to the. That's fine. I'm not saying she can't go to the bathroom. I just don't need to know.

[A]

Oh, never. Cause I got so many bathrooms. There's no need for me to know.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You don't know when I'm going to the bathroom. Thank you. I ain't throwing no PSA out when I'm going to the bathroom.

[B]

Yeah, look, this ain't a flight. You don't have to let me know. We boarding in five minutes.

[A]

Exactly, bro. But, you know, some people think that's love, and that's. That's too ghetto for me. That's ghetto love. I ain't with it.

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

I'm straight. See, I might be 58, but you ain't doing it the way I do it. How you do it. If I'm going poly, I'm going full Neo.

[B]

You have more so not Neil got, I think, what, three, four?

[A]

Yeah. If I'm 58, why. Why not go Leonardo DiCaprio?

[B]

I thought you was talking about Neo.

[A]

Both, but that's the black version. What you talking about, gang?

[B]

Nah, I don't know the people up.

[A]

So can I ask you a question?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

What does you know who I like for you? Cheyenne Bryant.

[B]

There you go, man. There you go.

[A]

I seen the energy gang. I watched that interview.

[B]

I'm friendly, I'm cordial to everybody. Every young lady that's been on the show, they said that about Cash Doll. They said that about.

[A]

I ain't see that in Ken.

[B]

They said that about Keke Palmer. They said that.

[A]

But I seen some with shiny.

[B]

They say that about glow.

[A]

You know what it is, though?

[B]

What is it?

[A]

Just we such dominant men, we want to get to the bottom of that just to let her know, like, you ain't. You ain't.

[B]

No, I don't. I don't. I don't.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Shayla. I think she's amazing. I think. And somebody's gonna be very, very fortunate to have have that young lady.

[A]

What she look like in person?

[B]

She like that.

[A]

Oh, come on. Cheers to that. Cheers, Doc.

[B]

She like that. I ain't gonna hold you. She like that. She liked that. You also mentioned earlier about therapy. You've done therapy still in it. Why was it important for you to go to therapy?

[A]

You don't have no one to talk to. And in reality, Right. I'm just such a man, and I feel like I a like complaining about things, so it's really more so like a safe space to go and tell, you know what I'm saying? Like, don't nobody want to hear. Don't nobody want to hear your problems, Shane.

[B]

No.

[A]

Don't nobody want to hear my problems.

[B]

There's a saying that 50% don't care that you got problems. And the other 50% glad you got them.

[A]

Oh, 50%, okay. You got problem. The other 50% want to see you on love and hip hop so they can. That's all it is. It ain't. It's. And deeper than that. Man, I wish. I wish. Man, I hate that we even talking about these dynamics because they gonna fry me up. And it's gonna be a very viral interview. But, man, I w. I wish I wasn't so triggering to the Internet. But, man, I wish it was a safe space for women to really have these type of conversations. Because it's unfortunate. Like, even when I look at it, one of my therapists is a woman.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

So it ain't like I'm confiding a man to go get a man opinion or whatever. I really wanna know the dynamics of women and how we're supposed to feel.

[B]

I've only had women's therapist, but we.

[A]

Don'T feel comfortable telling that to our partners. Cause as soon as you get vulnerable with your partner, they look at you different.

[B]

Yep. You're absolutely right.

[A]

So we. Yep. 57.

[B]

You know, you weak. You didn't have this great relationship with your mom. Come on now. I'm telling you stuff. And confidence. And there you go. Use to throw it in my.

[A]

I'm using this. You my first therapist, male therapist. I'm using this like a therapy session right now. They still gonna say that shit, though. You think how many women finna call me or this and Thursday. Oh, you ain't got no relationship with your mama. Duh.

[B]

Duh.

[A]

You broke. They gonna use everything against you. But the minute we turn this shit around and say we wanna use some of their deficiencies against us, then we sassy we this.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? So you can't win.

[B]

You mentioned. Have you had a conversation with Jamal?

[A]

We talk all the time. Not as. Not as close as I would like to be. But we don't know each other, Shannon.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like. And this. What the most traumatic part of my life is probably is that when I got on and I became Youngberg and all these other different things, man. My mom. I haven't had a real relationship with my mom in over 20 years.

[B]

Is.

[A]

So she don't know who I am as a person.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Her life went her direction. She went. Got remarried she went and did that. She went and established her family. No, she didn't have more kids, but she went and did whatever she did and. But my mom had one of the biggest child care centers in Chicago, Illinois, just period. In the state of Illinois. So she was a serial entrepreneur. She wouldn't invest in her time and her energy into other things and. And life goes on. Nobody wants to really say it, but life goes on. So for 20 years, we're not close. We haven't been like ultimately close.

[B]

Do you feel your mom abandoned you?

[A]

Nah, I just feel bad now cause she's not in the same financial position that I am. So that's the other dynamic of how to regulate this relationship too. So her life decision led her into a place to where she's not as successful as she used to be. And now I'm the big dog. And I'm trying to figure out how to manage that because I just seen her on Mother's Day. But it doesn't feel like beautiful to know that I'm pulling up in a $400,000 car to have dinner with my mom and she's going back to whatever her accommodations are.

[B]

I'm assuming she's gotten divorced.

[A]

Yeah, he took every. She lost everything. So it's kind of like, do I wear that burden? That's why I also had therapy too. Like, man approaching 40 and being a grown ass man at this time, like, do I go and say, you know what? You gave me life, let me do whatever I think is right to be done. But I'm gonna be honest with you. She's done some really unforgivable things in my life that is hard for me to get past. And with that being said, even when I try and hold her accountable as an older man in life, she doesn't agree with it. She doesn't remember. I'm gonna give you an example, right? Transparency. Cause it's a real therapy session. When I was young, like in my teens, and I was looking for that energy like from my mom or whatever. And my parents, my mom was still up, still rich, new marriage. My dad and her, they didn't had a toxic relationship. My dad had remarried this, that, and the third or whatever. And my, my stepmom had said.

[B]

I.

[A]

Always thought my stepmom wanted to me, right? Like, so listen, like my stepmom used to like, get high, get drunk with me, get drunk with me, get high with me, take me to school, just this, that, and the third. And my stepmom was like at least 10 plus years younger. Than my dad. She was a little fine piece of shit, you know what I'm saying, back then. So she used to show me a lot of love and admiration. And I always thought that she would go. But one day. I always knew that with her doing that type of things for me, that she didn't respect my father as much as I think that she should have. So one day she. She brought me upstairs, and she was. And I think her and my dad was going through some crazy, and she was like. She put out a Bible. She was doing a bunch of different. And she's like, your dad a homosexual. And I'm like, what? And she like, yeah, the gay.

[B]

My.

[A]

Huh? Cut it out.

[B]

Yeah. And plus, why you telling me this?

[A]

Exactly. So I further went down the line. And mind you, my stepmom and my mom were in cahoots at the time, too. Like, my dad had went to, like, China, Beijing. Like, my dad is like a missionary. Like, my dad do all type of shit. The nigga renaissance man. Like, he do whatever. So he gone and. And he on a church missionary meeting. And like, I had to. My stepmom had to take me to court for some shit or whatever. Like, I was on probation as a kid, okay. Her and my mom ended up at the courthouse while my dad in Beijing, China. And they got me locked up. So that's why I was telling you. So I'm like, oh, I know they in cahoots. So I reached out to my mom around that time, and I was like, yo, such and such said this. What do you. I'll never forget, boy, we had Red Lobster. I love a good Red Lobster biscuit.

[B]

You letting them cheddar biscuits, huh, boy?

[A]

Cheddar. Them shrimp scampies, boy, that shit was like Ruth Crystal. So I'm in there, and we had Red Lobster as a kid, and I asked my mom. I'm like, yo, like, such and such said this and said, my dad's gay and he's homosexual, and this, that, and the third, she ain't blocking. She was like, I don't know.

[B]

You would have thought she said, boy, your dad ain't gay.

[A]

She went and did that.

[B]

So almost like she was co signing it.

[A]

So that added to the disdain of that, you know what I'm saying? Cause I seen how manipulative women could be based off of whatever the situation is. Cause my dad always was like a top dog type. My dad put my mama on, so, man, it was just so much like, that's one thing, then the school thing. Then I got my first record deal. I'll never forget it. It was a place called the Palazzo across the street from the Grove on Thurlow and Fairfax. That was my first little condo or whatever. And I got my record deal and my mom and my auntie had came out and my mom was up, she was a millionaire, and she took me to IKEA and bought me a bunch of shit for my crib or this, that, and third, I'm thinking I'm vibed out or whatever. And I guess her and my dad, or whatever the happened, I just got my deal, and she sent an invoice to my dad for all the furniture from Ikea that she bought me. Like, yo, I wanna be reimbursed.

[B]

As a mom. I mean, that's what you do for your kid.

[A]

Okay? And that happened. And then I brought it up to my mom years later, like, yo, my dad said this, or them third niggas had to cut you a check for them. I have no idea what you talking about. I bring it up to her, yo, you said the nigga was gay. I have no idea what you talking about. I don't recollect that. Then my dad sent me the picture of the check that he wrote my mom for the IKEA furniture.

[B]

Did you show it to her?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What she say? Are you in. Are you in therapy? When you go to therapy, do you talk about this relationship with your mom to your therapist?

[A]

Do I talk to my mom about.

[B]

No. Do you talk to your therapist about the relationship with your mom?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

What does the therapist say?

[A]

It's some hurt there. It's some different things there. Yes.

[B]

Two decades.

[A]

Yeah. But it's just like, man, I'm such a man.

[B]

It's hard for you to forgive.

[A]

I can't forgive. And then, not only that, my life is so good. I can't be about nothing too, Shannon. Like, I feel ungrateful to be sitting.

[B]

There, oh, my God. Something happened 20 years ago.

[A]

I'm in shambles about it. I can't do that, Shannon.

[B]

Hopefully this doesn't happen, but if your mom is not here in the next, next week, month, year, will you miss her?

[A]

I fight with that a lot. I don't even know if I would. How I would feel. Would I go to the funeral or not.

[B]

Feel, ooh, ooh, this deep? It's deeper than I previously anticipated.

[A]

If I'm not paying for nothing, if I'm not helping someone out in this situation or whatever, then what it is? Like, I ain't gonna lie. I. I got nominated from. I got Nominated for a Grammy for Big Sean Bounce Back. And at the time, I had some money flowing and this, that, and the third, and she was going through her situations and she had nowhere to stay. She was saying, like, yo, well, my living condition isn't the best. So in my eyes, I'm like, you know, she live in Florida. Maybe I get like a condo and pay it off for the year. That way, give her a year, just free grace, you know, allow her to whatever her job is. Cause, mind you, I don't know this woman too. We don't have a relationship.

[B]

So have you seen her? Have you actually seen.

[A]

I've seen my mom probably like twice in 20 years. So probably, yeah. I can count on one hand how many times I've seen my mom in 20 years. So from there, I thought that that was going to be the. The solution and just being totally transparent and totally honest. She kind of, like, shamed me for and said that, like, people that are successful as me, they want to buy their mom a house. How could I even come to the table and say, yo, a condo, or to pay this and that? I should. She returned from my, I guess my $40,000 offer to pay a year worth of rent or whatever the situation, she doubled down with like 250, 300, and felt like I should buy her a home. And if that's what. That's what she felt like, it was necessary.

[B]

Let me ask you this. In all honesty. If you weren't as successful as you are, do you feel your mom would have a relationship with you?

[A]

No. I see how they treat other people that ain't got money in our family. They with them, but they don't with them.

[B]

How did that make you feel?

[A]

Nothing. I'm a winner. I'm sad about it, but it's time for me to make my own family and learn from those mistakes and learn from the things that mishaps and continue to do good by new. People can harbor all this energy or whatever and then be like, trying to, like, spin out with bad energy to different people. The only thing to do is correct the behavior and do it again.

[B]

This is your situation. Every situation is different. But I do believe you could forgive your mom and still not have to be in a situation where you have to deal with her.

[A]

Oh, I forgive her. I love her. We still talk. I'm telling you, we talk. It's just not as loving as I would like it to be. I just.

[B]

Because you feel that it's a monetary love.

[A]

Be honest.

[B]

It's a material love.

[A]

Shannon I'm a cold bro once you cross me. And like, I done been through so much. We done talked about this whole life once things happen. I'm a cold Shannon.

[B]

It's gonna be hard for her to get back in your good graces.

[A]

Ain't no graces. It ain't. We too old to be talking about graces. Come on, she's 60 something years old and I'm 40. What graces we talking about? We in the third quarter of our life.

[B]

I was thinking maybe hopefully wishing that you was like, man, I probably would miss her if she's gone. But it doesn't seem like that you feel that way currently.

[A]

No, of course I'm gonna miss her. I'm gonna miss the times that we have. But you gotta remember that the times that we had and the ones that hold genuine and hold safe to my heart is times when I was probably a teenager trying to.

[B]

It's been so long, so much time has passed, so much damage is done.

[A]

She don't even know me as a man.

[B]

Is she trying to repair that or she wants you to do all the fixing up?

[A]

Oh, she is both. Oh, she both. But I mean, if I wasn't in the position I am right now, it wouldn't be nothing really to fix up. I would just be a. That was in Chicago somewhere. How much of the fixing would be done, how I would be useless? Remember, if you ain't got no use, you useless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if I didn't have no equity of who I am as a person, I guarantee that she would have that love for me as a human, as someone that she pushed out of pussy. But in reality, if I can't contribute, then what you mean even though I'm not contributing right now, I'm not on my high horse like I'm paying for shit right now. I ain't doing. It ain't genuine.

[B]

We gonna come back, we're gonna have a conversation across the year, and you gonna be made amends to this.

[A]

I mean, I think I'm in a space to actually do make amends with it. But the thing is, is that she's.

[B]

Not helping the situation by not taking accountability for things that have happened on her end. If she would take some accountability if she were to say, you know what, baby, I was wrong. I didn't always do the best situation. I just did the best that I could. You're my first child. You're the only child, X, Y and Z. I know I could have did better, son. I could have done a lot better. And I wish I had done better. I wish your dad and I, Your father and I, we could have made this relationship work. Because I think you saw a side of both of us that you didn't need to see. And it kind of put you in a light that relationships. This is how all relationships are, and they're not. I. Baby, that's on me. I was wrong.

[A]

Yeah. But I agree with that to a certain extent. But that would be what I would be wanting from her. And that's a very selfish thing to really be on, like. So I. When I say genuine, what I'm gonna do moving forward, I had to deal with myself, right? I had to get myself, like. Because that's what I would want in return. When it's genuine, you just do it, right? Not seeking for nothing in return just because it's a genuine effect and it's a genuine reaction or outpour to what you want to do. That's what prompted me to do that. When you looking for something in return, that's where you wrong. So I'm not looking for validation for her no more to be able to say, you know what, baby? Everything you just said, I'm sorry, I don't want no apostle. Like, I want to get to the space to where I just want to do it and just being at peace with it, whether. Whether the response come or not, you.

[B]

Know, forgiveness is not for the other person.

[A]

Oh, I don't forgive or forget.

[B]

Forgiveness is for you.

[A]

Oh, I ain't forgiven or forget.

[B]

You're gonna have to. You don't have to forget. You don't have to because you don't have amnesia and you don't have one of these debilitating diseases that cause you to lose your memory. But forgiveness is so you, because right now you're in bondage. Your emotions are holding you hostage because of what she's done. And I'm not saying you're not wrong, but at some point in time, you're gonna have to let this go in order for you to be free. Cause right now, you're in bondage. Your emotions, your feelings are being held hostage by this woman that you barely know for over two decades.

[A]

All right, I'm gonna call my therapist out of this.

[B]

We're gonna get you out of here. I'll give you your Mount Rushmore producers in the history.

[A]

That's four, right? Four of all time.

[B]

All time. And I know one. I know one on there.

[A]

Quincy Jones. Quincy First, Kanye West.

[B]

Kanye.

[A]

Jermaine Dupri. Okay, Pharrell for me. Okay?

[B]

That's a list, man. That's a list. I mean, some people might say Jimmy, Jam and Terry. Some people might say Babyface.

[A]

Yeah, I get it.

[B]

But your, hey, the other list, that's.

[A]

A songwriter because you know, know Jimmy and Terry and Babyface and la, they did a lot of songwriting work too. I was just saying strictly that just put the soundtrack to their life. You know what I'm saying? That's what it is for me.

[B]

I like that hit. Appreciate you stopping by. Here he is, hit maker, bro. That was amazing. Thank you. That was amazing.

[A]

Thank you, bro. All my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice hustle, paid the best price wanna slice, got to roll the dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life all my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice hustle, paid the price, wanna slice got to roll a dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life.

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Everyone deserves to be connected.

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That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up.

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T mobile is in US cellular stores.

[A]

Savings versus Comparable Verizon plan plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features in taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. At cvs, it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. Store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz.

[C]

We host the podcast Mind the Business, Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[A]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners. The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about, about us to be part of that change.

[C]

So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.