Club Shay Shay - Joe Budden Part 2

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Joe Budden Part 2

Podcast: Club Shay Shay
Host: Shannon Sharpe
Guest: Joe Budden
Date: February 4, 2026

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Overview

In this wide-ranging and candid follow-up conversation, Shannon Sharpe sits down with podcasting powerhouse and former rapper Joe Budden. The discussion spans everything from personal growth and mental health, the evolution of hip hop, Joe’s podcasting philosophy, leaving the music industry, dealing with fame and public scrutiny, to handling business and relationships in the spotlight. Joe Budden is open about his past struggles, his approach to building teams, his insights into the industry, and his growth as both an artist and a person.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mental Health & Personal Growth

• Importance of Mental Health:

  • Joe emphasizes how central mental health is to his well-being, especially as he's gotten older. He shares how learning to say "no" and prioritizing his peace is a fundamental shift in his lifestyle.
    • “Learning how to say no was important in my story. I'm quick with a no. Hell no.” (01:48 – Joe)
  • Creating a positive daily environment is key:
    • “I'm not gonna be somewhere just miserable and grumpy and unhappy around some killjoy of a person. No, no, no. I need good energy, good vibrations, high frequency.” (02:32 – Joe)
  • The power of the morning sets his day:
    • “It sets the tone for my day. How the morning goes is how I’m going to go in all of these different places and people that I have to be at and see.” (03:02 – Joe)

• Advice for Others:

  • On surviving tough moments:
    • “If you're struggling to get through the day, just give yourself a shot. Pray yourself through it if you can.” (01:30 – Joe)

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2. Evolution of Hip Hop

• Motivation and Authenticity:

  • Joe notes that the motivation for being a rapper has shifted—whereas in his era, skill and craftsmanship were paramount, now visibility, money, and social media drive the culture.
    • “In the 90s, there was a belief that you couldn’t even get on without being the best…That’s not the belief anymore.” (04:08 – Joe)
    • “It’s the microwave. A lot more microwave today. A lot more processed. In the 90s, it was more made by hand; it was more craftsmanship.” (05:23 – Joe)

• Glorification of Jail in Hip Hop:

  • Joe pushes back on the idea that jail was always glorified in hip hop and shares his mother’s warnings about the prison system.
    • “My mom always raised me, hey, don’t go to jail. And if you get in there, it’s a system that’s in there in place just for people like you to get there. And there’s nothing I can do for you. That was enough for me.” (06:38 – Joe)

• Defining “Gangster”:

  • Joe reframes what power and living really mean:
    • “Gangster is seeing your kids get old. Gangster is going to the graduation. That’s the stuff we should be trying to talk about.” (09:39 – Joe)

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3. Fame, The Internet, and the News

• Negative Effects of Media Saturation:
  • Both host and guest comment on how 24/7 news cycles and social media distort our sense of safety and community.
    • “Because we have more access to more news…California doesn't seem that far away now. New York is not. Even though we're here, it's not that far away.” (10:46 – Shannon)
  • Joe brings it back to personal responsibility and kindness:
    • “Why not try to make the most out of every day? Like, why not be kind to my fellow human? Why not not preach murder, kill, kill, kill…Because I also believe in the power of words, too.” (11:54 – Joe)

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4. Relationships & Public Scrutiny

• On Marriage and Dating Publicly:
  • Joe is cautious but open about marriage and praises his current partner for her support and structure in his life.
    • “She’s my structure, my accountability system. That’s my baby. We'll get to it. I'm not into Russian shit.” (13:24 – Joe)
  • On public relationships:
    • “If we put it on the Internet, we wanted it to be on the Internet. Like, I'm prepared for whatever comes with that. Be solid in who you with and who you are, and you'll be cool.” (14:34 – Joe)

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5. Podcasting Philosophy & Building a Brand

• Team Building:

  • Chemistry and work ethic are foundational when hiring, says Joe.
    • “A large part of it is chemistry. That and work ethic. For me, like, I've been blessed…the people that I've hired are like…they love it like me. They're ready to work like me.” (15:11 – Joe)
  • Importance of a strong team and delegation:
    • “You learn as you go that hire as many people as you can that are gonna help you.” (16:25 – Joe)

• Handling Talent Departures:

  • On Melissa Ford’s departure and turnover:
    • “We do want people to leave…Like, I think that's a misconception…We definitely want people to leave…so in that you want people to grow and flourish and go get other opportunities.” (22:26 – Joe)

• Podcast Contracts and Money:

  • Discusses openness about pay and standard contract clauses about salary confidentiality:
    • “That's in there. My lawyer has that in there…But yo, I want everybody to make as much as they can make. It just gotta make sense.” (17:01 – Joe)

• On Entertaining and Creating Space:

  • The show’s value comes from authenticity and letting people show unexpected sides of themselves:
    • “Whatever people are bringing that is gonna make this shit entertaining…that’s the goal. It’s an entertainment show.” (20:23 – Joe)
  • Mark Lamont Hill’s role and why he works on the show:
    • “Mark brings just…a wealth of knowledge, is professional in every sense of the word. His humor, his dark humor…he’s a brother from Philly and reminds you of it.” (18:20 – Joe)

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6. Public “Messiness” and Safe Spaces on Podcasts

• Debate Over Being “Messy”:
  • Both discuss the boundaries between hosting, gossip, and creating a safe but entertaining space (32:43–38:29).
    • “She’s creating the space to hear something that we’ve never heard before.” (32:47 – Joe on Oprah)
    • “A little healthy mess…nobody’s hurt, just friendly. Hey, toss this up there and see what happens. There's nothing wrong with that.” (36:43 – Joe)

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7. The Business & Trauma of the Music Industry

• Independence and Learning the Hard Way:

  • Joe shares his early ignorance of music business realities and the long fight for his independence:
    • “At 23, I had no idea what I was doing. I didn’t have the slightest clue about taxes…I didn’t even understand it when it was radio play. You need a hit record. All right. What is a hit record? Okay, how do you get one of those?” (44:07–46:45 – Joe)
  • On label contracts, budgets, and recoupment costs:
    • “Everything comes out of yours. Everything. Everything’s recoupable at this time. Cause you can’t get anything popping without the labels.” (46:01 – Joe)
  • His perspective on “Pump It Up” as a turning point:
    • “I hear 22 year old Joe Budden…if I don’t come up with something, they’ll drop me from my label. Like I hear that guy who had the world ahead of him, but he delivered.” (47:11 – Joe)

• Def Jam Mount Rushmore Debate:

  • Joe sticks with hip hop forefathers:
    • “LL Cool J…Run DMC has to be there. But Jay Z and DMX have to be there.” (47:57 – Joe)

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8. Addiction, Recovery, and Health

• Drug Use and Recovery:
  • Candid account of being addicted to Percocet and Oxycontin after surgery:
    • “When I left the hospital, I was hooked to perks…I didn’t leave home with less than 40 pills on me. But you do that long enough, your body starts to become almost dependent on it.” (51:56–52:04 – Joe)
  • Recovery was gradual and required support:
    • “I have people. My parents…my friend group…was really instrumental in weaning me off of that stuff. And it wasn’t overnight. It was a struggle, indeed.” (53:04 – Joe)
  • On weight loss and health, and trying drugs like Ozempic/Zepbound for weight management:
    • “I did some dietary changes. I added some things to my workout routine…losing weight already. This was just supposed to be like an extra oomph.” (55:10 – Joe)
  • Encouragement for health screenings:
    • “There’s too many people dropping dead…go get all of that shit done. All of it. It’s annoying, I know. But you gotta do it.” (58:07 – Joe)

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9. Life Lessons and Perspective

• On Aging and Wisdom:

  • Joe reflects on the hard-won maturity he’s gained:
    • “This is a lot of work, a lot of therapy, a lot of just growing up…these people have seen me…I've done it. I've done it. Anything there is to do, I've been blessed enough to. I've lived.” (28:09 – Joe)

• What would 20, 30, 40, and future Joe say to each other?

  • “At 20 I was just…I would have let my older self hear verse. I would have rapped for my 30 year old self is what I would have done. At 30, peak depression…not where I wanted to be in life…by 34, 35, I was like, you know what, am I gonna make it to 40…I should prep for it. What do I want my 40’s to look like?” (70:25–72:51 – Joe)

• On work ethic in podcasting and personal brand:

  • “Everybody wants to own some shit until it’s time to own some shit…Everybody wants to be successful until they find out what it looks like to be successful like. And that’s the grind of it. I love all of this shit though.” (69:49 – Joe)

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10. Lighter Moments and Memorable Quotes

• On spades and competition:
  • “I can’t find a good spade game anymore.” (60:33 – Joe)
  • “I just don’t play kindergarten spades…normally don’t play for free because I’m great.” (61:24 – Joe)
• On New York sports fandom:
  • “I’m a Giants fan. I’m not an ets. Anything. Nets, Mets, Jets.” (64:19 – Joe)
• On AI and technology in music/media:
  • “I think it will be very helpful, and it’s gonna eventually change the world. It’s gonna be get down and lay down.” (65:43 – Joe)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Joe Budden on personal boundaries:
  “Learning how to say no was important in my story. I'm quick with a no. Hell no.” (01:48)
• Joe on the goal of aging:
  “Hope this is the goal. The goal is to age.” (00:41)
• Joe on mental health routines:
  “I'm not gonna be somewhere just miserable and grumpy and unhappy around some killjoy of a person. No, no, no. I need good energy, good vibrations, high frequency.” (02:32)
• Joe on hip hop’s shift:
  “In the 90s, there was a belief that you couldn’t even get on without being the best. That’s not the belief anymore.” (04:08)
• Joe on drugs and recovery:
  “When I left the hospital, I was hooked to perks…I didn’t leave home with less than 40 pills on me.” (51:56)
• Joe on the power of words:
  “Because I also believe in the power of words, too. If that’s what you’re saying, then it will happen. That’s what you’re manifesting.” (12:06)
• Joe on podcasting success:
  “Everybody wants to own some shit until it’s time to own some shit… Everybody wants to be successful until they find out what it looks like to be successful like. And that’s the grind of it.” (69:49)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Mental Health and Growth: 00:00 – 03:41
• Hip Hop Then vs Now: 04:08 – 05:48
• On Jail and Glorification in Rap: 05:48 – 06:34
• Fame, News, and Staying Positive: 10:22 – 12:06
• Dating and Relationships in Public: 12:18 – 14:34
• Podcast Team Building: 15:11 – 17:35
• Co-Hosts and Departures (Melissa Ford): 21:49 – 24:02
• Rory & Mal Split and Lessons Learned: 24:49 – 27:54
• On “Messiness” in Podcasting: 32:06 – 38:28
• Music Industry Trauma and Independence: 44:07 – 47:51
• Drug Addiction and Recovery: 50:05 – 53:33
• Spades, Sports, and Lighter Banter: 60:00 – 64:12
• The Future of Media & AI: 65:41 – 76:28

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Conclusion

In this episode, Joe Budden pulls back the curtain on both his personal and professional evolution, covering deep and vulnerable material with authenticity and humor. From hard-learned lessons in the music industry to his reputation as a pioneering podcaster, Joe’s journey is one of growth—spiritually, mentally, and professionally. Whether discussing the state of hip hop or giving advice on success and sacrifice, Joe keeps it all the way real.

To hear more, check out The Joe Budden Podcast, available four times a week on Patreon and all major platforms.

Transcript

[A]

Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway. You said something very interesting earlier. You said now at this age, now that you focus on your mental health and you know, kaisernet said something about mental health. How important is that for you, Joe? Because at what age did you realize that you needed to focus on that? Cause when we're young, things that we think about now as we start to. I'm at the age when I used to think it was old. I'm at that age now. I remember when I was, you know, a teenager and in my 20s, like, hey, you almost 60 now? I'm almost 60. So how.

[B]

What a blessing.

[A]

Hey, that's what I tell kids. Keep living.

[B]

Hope this is the goal. The goal is to age. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

At what age did you like start focusing on your mental health?

[B]

You know, for me, for me, I tried. I was always pretty focused on mental health. I just wasn't doing the greatest at the time. Mentally, spiritually, physically. I was always. I had to be aware of my mental health because I could not live anymore if I didn't really focus on that. So after a lot of years, it got in a good place and you learn how important it is. It's, it's the, it's the processor, it's the motherboard. It's what makes it. You can't, you can't go there is not. You can't show up for yourself properly. You can't live life properly. And if you're out there and you're struggling, just give yourself a shot for another day. Like if you're struggling to get through the day, just give yourself a shot. Pray yourself through it if you can. But mental health is super important now. And today I put the time to the side.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Learning how to say no was, was important in my story. I'm quick with a no. Hell no.

[A]

It ain't hard anymore.

[B]

No, it wasn't. It wasn't never hard for me. But it felt better the more you said felt better the more you said it. Less committing to things that.

[A]

Yeah, that's the worst.

[B]

Committing to things that you not want to, not going to do, don't want to do. Showing up you could give two about. It's just like, no, no and no. Again, back to, I'm trying to get in bed by 4:30. Like if I'm doing a favor for somebody or if I'm saying I'm even leaving the house, there's something that I really want to do right today. And a large part of that is mental health. I'm not Gonna be somewhere just miserable and grumpy and unhappy around some killjoy of a person. No, no, no. I need. No, not in my 40s. I need good energy, good vibrations, high frequency. It's important to me how people wake up, even like. Or how people start their role in my day. In the morning, don't. With my morning, do. Not. With my morning, don't.

[A]

That's your busiest time. That's where you feel you at your.

[B]

It sets the tone for my day. How the morning goes is how I'm going to go in all of these different places and people that I have to be at and. And see. Right. Whatever you went through the phone and saw last night, not in the morning.

[A]

When I get home.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Whoever's calling to just argue or just dump on you or just put heavy on you. Not in my morning. You can't do that in the morning. And I'm a morning guy. Yeah. I'm up at 4 in the morning. Wow. No, I don't. Nah, let me. Let me pace the day. Mental health. Yes, mental health, you come first. Wow.

[A]

Noted. As someone that's been in this game, that understands this game of hip hop, what is the biggest difference, Joe, between today, the rappers of today, and the rappers of yesterday? To the best of your guests.

[B]

I think motivation. What drives the. What drives people today to do it might be a little different. Like I said, when I signed, I wanted to be the best. In the 90s, there was a belief that you probably. You couldn't even get on without being the best. Right. That's not the belief anymore. That's not the belief anymore. And. And it's a lot more money in it today. Visibly, these kids today can pick up their phone and look at what's going on all over the world. And that helps to shape their ideas. In my day, we were looking at our block or our surroundings, city, our shit. And whatever I got from what was going on in another part of the world was from music. Like, I didn't. When NWA came out, I didn't know nothing about the. Was going on on the West Coast. When Scarface came out, I didn't. Oh, shit. All right, this was going on. That was hip hop to me. Like, just regional reporting from wordsmiths to educate us. Today you have no idea what somebody's doing it for. Today you have people that don't even want to do it for a long time. Today they'll tell you, hey, I'm here for two years and then I'm done. I'm going somewhere Else. And I think that you can start to hear and quality. At some point to today, things need to be done much faster. It's the microwave. A lot more microwave today. A lot more processed. In the 90s, it was more made by hand. It was more craftsmanship. I mean, that's what I noticed anyway, right?

[A]

Rappers getting out. Fetty Wap just got out. Thug got out recently. Shy Max, Blue. Blue Face, Yfn, Luchi Joe, was it always. Cuz look, I'm at a distance. You've been smack dab. Was, was, was jail in prison and get arrested. Was it always glorified in. In hip hop or in the rap game?

[B]

H. Glorified. No, I can't. I can't say that. That's the hip hop I was growing up in, right? That. No, today you're right, it's. Well, I don't even know if you're saying that. But today it's like today it's a different stripe system that comes from.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That they playing by different sets of rules. They doing all different types of crimes. Or at least now it's more visible to us. But my mom always raised me, hey, don't go to jail. And if you get in there, it's a system that's in there in place just for people like you to get there. And there's nothing I can do for you. That was enough for me. I spent a couple weekends in Hudson county or wherever the I spent. That was enough for me. If you lock me up for a couple hours, that's enough for me. So I can't speak to the clip in which people are going in and coming out and going in and coming out. You read that list. I couldn't tell you who's in jail. I know when they come home. Cause we so happy. But my message is, try your best to not go in. Go ahead.

[A]

I asked Blueface, and when he came home, they had a big celebration. I say, blu, why we celebrating that? He's like, man, I came home. I said, but you do know the objective is not to go in. I said, now, if you graduating, you're getting a college degree, you graduated law school or something like that. He's like, well, if you don't celebrate me when you come home, I don't wanna come home. I said, but, Blue, it's not. The objective is not to go. Am I wrong? Am I wrong in my assessment?

[B]

Joe, you're not wrong at all. With all due respect, I try not to hear the things that Blueface says.

[A]

Well, Jonathan, he was Jonathan that day.

[B]

I don't try.

[A]

He was Jonathan that day.

[B]

I'm not trying to be funny either, but like, I've heard enough of his views to understand that, okay, he has a different set of. Right. A different set of views.

[A]

He was Jonathan. He was Jonathan that day.

[B]

He could be whoever he wanted to be. I'm just saying, for me, I'm gonna go some other shit. Not respectfully.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Respectfully, of course.

[A]

You heard who was it? It was Savage. Somebody else said, f the streets.

[B]

Oh. And that caused quite the uproar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But it's gonna be hard to say up the streets when you kind of built your reputation on being in the streets.

[B]

I think people were confused about what.

[A]

The streets, what it actually meant.

[B]

Yeah, I think there was a lot of blurred lines with that. So I just saw a lot of people doing explanations. I saw people on one side saying, yeah, yeah. And I saw people saying, you if you don't like the street. So I enjoyed seeing. I enjoy seeing success stories, especially from people that moved a certain way or lived a certain way. Like I think. I think part of life is being able to live, to tell it or to remember it or flashback or look back on it or. That's a big part of life. So, yeah, he was speaking for him. Yo, live. Gangster is seeing. Seeing your kids get old.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Gangster is going to the graduation. It's seeing them get a job and seeing them. That's. That's the stuff that we should be trying to talk about, really. And not to say we can't talk about the other shit.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But the glorification of it. No, we need real stories about what's really going on. I watch the news every morning. I told you, I'm up at 4:30.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There's not a day that goes by where there's not something on there that'll just be like, wait, what the is going on? Who did what?

[A]

I was about to see, I was about to ask you, Joe Machete, and you did what?

[B]

Or you killed a family? You threw a body over here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Lovers killing each other. People killing each other.

[A]

Guy killed his ex wife and his parents.

[B]

Like, if.

[A]

Don't you get depressed though, Joe? I'm like, I mean, I get depressed. I'm like, damn. Really? And I think the thing is, Joe, because we have more access to more news, we didn't hear all this stuff now. Now it's 24 7. I mean, basically you would hear every once in a while of a school shooting or you hear something like this but not every day. And maybe it was happening every day, but the social media, the Internet, has made the world so close. California doesn't seem that far away now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

New York is not. Even though we're here, it's not that far away. So no matter where you are, it's really close. Whereas before, it was so far away, you only dreamed of going to California. You only dreamed of going to these places. And now they bring it right to you.

[B]

You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right about it.

[A]

So I was like. I used to do that, too. I used to read the news and I was like, man, I can't.

[B]

I'm just saying, when you see all of that shit going on, like, I just have a healthy respect for life and just trying to live. Just trying to. Just trying to live, period. There's too many black people dying from age 39 to 60.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I know. I know the food we like to eat. I know the places we like to go. I know the way we like to party. Like, staying alive is tough. That it is. And that may be depressing. So why not try to make the most out of every day? Like, why not be kind to my fellow human? Why not not preach murder? Kill, kill, kill. Death, destruction, drugs, yada, yada. Yeah. Because I also believe in the power of words, too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If you just. If that's what you're saying, then it will happen. That's what you're manifesting, and that's not. I pray that people grow out of that. I pray we get healthier practices.

[A]

Yo, you married?

[B]

No.

[A]

You were engaged, though, right?

[B]

I have been engaged before and I'm happily involved.

[A]

Now, are you looking to take that next step or are you comfortable where you are?

[B]

That's another loaded question. That's a trick. That's a trick.

[A]

It ain't a trick question, Joe. That's a trick question. Would you like to get married?

[B]

Hey, that's a trick question. Thank God it's a trained ear to hear this trick level of trick question. My baby just hit me, said, I love you. Have a great day. Amazing interview. Tell Shannon he's great. Kill that shit. And now you try to load this up.

[A]

How about load you say, look, you happy. But, you know, I've been told that the ultimate, a man who finds a wife finds a good thing. Isn't that in the Bible, Joe?

[B]

She'll say that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I'm not afraid of marriage. I'm not afraid of marriage. And that's in. That's in the works. I'M sure. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not totally against it. I'm talking just because it's provocative. Yeah. But yeah, I'm not against it. I'm lucky enough to find somebody who I love, that loves me, that takes care of me and all of that. Good. She. She's in the role she's played in my life during this, this run that I'm on. It's like she's my structure, my. My accountability system. She's my. That's my baby. We'll get to it. I'm not into Russian shit.

[A]

How difficult is it to date public? Because the thing is, Joe, when. You know, when you date public, what you gotta do, you gotta break up public and everything. Everybody has an opinion. Everybody is a therapist on Joe and his relationship because it's public. Well, Joe, hey, you out here, you talk about it, blah, blah, blah. So is it hard for you to date public? I mean, was it hard for you to come out or were you cool with. Is you like, you know what, baby? I want I stay in the background. I'm cool.

[B]

It wasn't tough for me because I'm different. I don't have so many years of experience of being public as someone with some notoriety. So I may be used to it in ways that could be difficult for other people. I'm not going to say it's never been tough. Like, we have our moments, but for the most part, I'm cool with it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You get if we put it on the Internet, we wanted it to be on the Internet. Like, I'm prepared for whatever comes with that. Be solid in who you with and who you are, and you'll be cool.

[A]

Let's go back to what you're great at, and that is this podcast space. How do you go about hiring talent? How do you like Joe? Like, okay, I want to hire this. Whether they gonna be a co host or they're gonna be X, or they're gonna be videographers or they're gonna be graphics designers or they're gonna be X. So they're gonna be. Why? How does Joe Button decide that?

[B]

Large part, A large part of it is chemistry. I'm looking for chemistry no matter what the title is, because it's such a, like I said, boutique operation. So it's gonna be me calling. There's going to be somebody next to me that's calling. We're going to speak, we're going to see each other. It's going to be no. So how can people work together? That and work ethic. That and work ethic. For me, like, I've been blessed to. The people that I've hired are like.

[A]

Are as consumed as you are.

[B]

Yeah, they love it like me. They're ready to work like me. These are my guys. I've been in the foxhole with these people. So it's not a whole bunch of incorporating strangers and all of that, but it's purely work ethic, dedication. Everybody's talented, but chemistry. I got good people around me. Can't nothing get moving if you don't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You learn the importance of a team. Like back in the day, in early rap days, is when you was trying to take the whole pie and keep it to yourself. You're not trying to get a manager his cut. You're not trying to give the business accountant. They cut the tour manager. You just want to pocket everything because.

[A]

Well, I'm doing all the work. You ain't really doing nothing.

[B]

You learn as you go that hire as many people as you can that are gonna help you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That believe in it. That I guess rigor. Yeah, yeah. Well, and go make more. Yes, make more too, to hire these people. But, yeah, no, I got a real good, real good team.

[A]

But obviously, at the end of the day, you hire a great team. Money. When you hire somebody. Let's just say you got 15 people working for Joe Budd.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Is it written in their contracts they can't talk about what they make?

[B]

Uh, yeah, because you know that that's in there. I'm pretty sure my lawyer has that in there. I mean, that don't mean nothing though. Hey, if you hiring people, just know that when they get away from you, they gonna talk about what they make. Yeah, for sure they gonna talk about what they make. But, yo, I want everybody to make as much as they can make. It just gotta make sense. Yes, it just always gotta make sense. If people are making more, that means that we're doing what we're supposed to be doing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That means we're growing. So I encourage that.

[A]

Man, look, your talent, you brought Mark Lamont Hill. And a lot of people think because mark is a PhD, I think he's at, what, temple or Rutgers. He's a temple. Right.

[B]

Temple.

[A]

And speaks very articulate, says a lot of great things. I like listening to Mark, but when he's on your show, he ain't on cnn. He know Fox, and I think people know him from those shows. And so they're expecting him to be buttoned up. Well, you know, such and such.

[B]

Nah, he's not. Not. Not at all.

[A]

Mark getting grabbed me. I was like, hold on, wait a minute.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, they not finna invite you back to those spaces.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You stuck with Joe.

[B]

Mark. Mark is so. Mark has been such a blessing to work with and I'm not sure if it would have worked if he was so buttoned.

[A]

No, he couldn't. No, he couldn't.

[B]

If he was so buttoned up, I.

[A]

Don'T think it worked.

[B]

But. But what he brings and just is a wealth of knowledge is professional in every sense of the word. His humor, his dark humor, like he is a brother from Philly. He is a brother from Philly and here he. He reminds you of it. So. Funny thing about Mark is all that CNN shit. Mark is so controversial to me because Mark will say what he thinks about a plethora of topics and some of his views. Like, he's just controversial to me. Yeah.

[A]

How did you. How did you know that would work?

[B]

I'm controversial.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't run from the controversy.

[A]

Did you think that he would be. Cause a lot of times, you know, I don't know if you guys. But in linear television, a lot of time they would have like reads in a movie and you sit there and you say things. And sometimes people would say things in a meeting. That red dot. Go on. There was nothing like that. I'm like, well, damn. Well, that happened. I need the guy that was saying all that, this and this and this. And now you get here and you like, no. So what happened? So how did you know? Have you ever.

[B]

And I'm not saying that happens with Mark. I'm just saying that has happened.

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why I'm speaking to it. Because I've been in situations where it had happened. But did you have a prior relationship with Mark? Did you know him?

[B]

Yeah, no. Me and Mark were pretty fly. We were pretty fly for quite a few years. We had never worked so closely together, but we had a real good relationship. I think we've gotten a lot closer working in this capacity. But he's been nothing but amazing, man.

[A]

They becoming that Mark. Because I think I saw one clip where somebody said, oh, Mark, you be trying to use them big words, Mark, like, it's not a big word. It's just a big word to you, but it's not a big word. I mean, Mark, he's slick. He quick. He's slick with it, though.

[B]

There's that part. Mark can weaponize his.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. His education.

[B]

He's like, Mark is slick. But you need that.

[A]

And you be over there. You like.

[B]

I'm a. I love all of that shit. Yeah. Again, I love whatever people are bringing that is gonna make this shit entertaining if that's dark.

[A]

Because at the end of the day, there's still entertainment.

[B]

That's the goal. That's the goal. It's an entertainment show. So whatever happens on Cannes, long as it's entertaining, I'm fly with it. And Mark has been tremendous in that.

[A]

You had a co host leave recently, Melissa Ford. There was a lot of controversy, and I think she said all of a sudden her voice wasn't being heard or she wasn't being taken serious. I don't know what you care to speak to that. But did she leave because of that or were there a negotiation where her contract was up and, you know, money was involved? I mean, what. What goes into that? That. Cause I'm sure you don't want to lose good people because she was. She was good for the show.

[C]

With Cargurus Discover, you can skip the filters and describe what you're looking for in your own words. Simply type what you want and Cargurus Discover instantly surfaces real listings that match your exact needs. It's no wonder car is the number one most visited car shopping site, according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. Buy or sell your next car today with [e-mail] Go to CarGurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C A R G u r u s.com cargurus.com Olivia Culpo here to.

[B]

Tell you all about the launch of the new Abercrombie spring denim collection. Made the way denim should feel. Their denim has always been a staple in my wardrobe and has a wide range of fits and styles and washes. Every jean is available in both their classic fit and viral curve Love shop in the app, online and in stores. I won't say too much about her. I wish Mel the best in whatever she's doing, but I. We do want people to leave.

[A]

You do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, damn. I tried.

[B]

We do want. But we do want people to leave. Like, I think that's a misconception. If that's what they think. We definitely want people to leave.

[A]

You want them to go do their own.

[B]

That's important. Okay. Even while people are with me, I encourage everybody to do their own thing outside of here. Like, please, please utilize the value and the audience and the attention that this show gives. I want you to do that. So in that you Want people to grow and flourish and go get other opportunities again. Anybody, Anybody that was ever on the show. Okay, we want you to do that. So, yeah, it's a good works. Is a good. I don't want to say launch pad, but a good. What's the word I'm looking for? Launch pad?

[A]

Springboard.

[B]

It's a good spring. It's a good springboard. It's a good springboard. It allows people to introduce themselves and in a different way that they had.

[A]

But they know him from you though, Joe. They wanna see.

[B]

No, I'm talking about like you said with Mark Lamont Hill, right? Like Mark Lamont Hill. You may know him from cnn, all these other places you don't. You here, you're seeing him in a way that you're talking about a 20 year professional here. 20 plus year professional. You've never seen him.

[A]

No, you're not. That's out this way. You've peeled a layer. You've allowed people to see Lamar in a way nobody has ever seen him. Or maybe his closest friends know he talks like that.

[B]

Exactly like. And I feel like this show is a good opportunity for people to do that.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And there's only. But so much you can hide. Only so much hiding you could do talking three plus hours twice a week.

[A]

Yeah, you right.

[B]

You talk too much. You talking.

[A]

Yeah, you go. And that's what I tell people. The more you talk, if you in this business long enough and you talk long enough, you're going to slip up, you're going to say something. There is no possible way. I mean, we do a nightcap four to five nights a week. I'm doing Club Shay Shay. I was on Leonard Television, bro. I'm talking 20 plus hours a week for years. You don't think I'm going to have one slip up?

[B]

You're going to say something. That's why it's important for the contract to also reflect that, hey, I might say something, I might do something. It might be something in life that happens. You cannot get rid of me because I said something right.

[A]

One word.

[B]

I'm not in that boat. But for the people that are right.

[A]

There was a very highly publicized split between Rory Ma that was on your show. And they have their own thing, doing their own thing. And a lot of people like, man, this was Siskel and Ebert. This was Penn and Teller. This was, you know what I'm saying? This was one of those greats that like, I guess you old enough to remember Hal Melvin and the Blue Notes with Teddy Pendergrass. Like, hold on, wait a minute, I'm doing all the singing. Hal, you ain't did nothing. So, I mean. No, but seriously, Joe. But is it hard because you guys have such a great relationship and then it ends and then, you know, the back and forth. How hard is it for you? Because you guys, I mean, when you work as long as you did with someone, you build a relationship, you do things together, y' all go places, you do things, you eat. Family and friends become intertwined. How hard was that for you?

[B]

I mean, it was, it was really tough in the moment. Like when it was happening. Like you got friendships, you're managing, you're managing business, people's view of the business. It was, it was difficult. And then, and then they left. Salute to those brothers. Wish them nothing but the best as well. Then again, my faith being God, right? My faith is in a higher power at all times. So whatever is happening, that's what's supposed to be happening.

[A]

That have. You look at everything. So you look at everything like that, okay? Nothing happens without him, his blessing or his plan. Cuz this was his plan.

[B]

Every, everything is the doing of my higher power. If he putting it in front of me, there's something that's supposed to be happening and it's my job to figure that out from there. I'm not sitting around and, and, and weeping at the hand that I'm dealt. I'm. I'm getting to it. So I needed all of the education that came from that split. It was informative. It was important for me to get to the next place that I was going. And they needed to, they needed to go and do what they needed to do. But nobody should ever sit around and just be like you spoke about earlier. Just come to work unhappy and sad.

[A]

And did you know they were unhappy or sad?

[B]

No, no, no, no. Not till it was too late. Not till it was too late. But we, we, we had a set of issues. We both had a set of issues. None of us had the proper tools to deal with it, Deal with it and get through it at the time, not. And remain whole. So I mean, happened like it had to happen.

[A]

Have you guys been able to make peace? Have you had guys had conversations and been cool moving forward?

[B]

No, but I think everybody's at peace. I don't think you always need to have conversations to be at peace, but everybody's at peace. I've spoken to Rory, Rory a couple of times. He's doing well. Just to say I love you, proud of what you're doing, but it's no hard feelings. It's peace. It's peace, Joe.

[A]

You always been like this? Or you had to grow. Or you had to grow to this level of maturity.

[B]

Do I sound mature?

[A]

You sound very mature.

[B]

Oh, shit. For real?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, good. Oh, good.

[A]

I was a menace.

[B]

I was an agent of terror and chaos. So this is a lot of work, a lot of therapy, a lot of just growing up. Listen, Shannon, like, we started this with. I've been in this shit for 27 years, or however long. I've grown up with some of these people, right? Like, these people have seen me. What haven't you seen me do? I've. I've been wild on tv. I've been wild on radio. I've been wild on the Internet. I've been wild with fans. I've been wild with police. I've been wild. I've been. I've done it, right? I've done it. I've done it. Anything there is to do, I've been blessed enough to. I've lived. I've lived. I've traveled. Whoever you think the baddest girl is. We had that run, we did the stumble. We was moving around for a little bit. We lived. We lived. We lived when it was a nightlife, when it was a scene in New York, when it was fun, when it wasn't all this Internet hoopla shit, right? And now we're living, right, Just very differently. Just very differently.

[A]

For me, it was Joe. And to hear you say, but it took a lot to get to a place where you feel people have wronged you or taken their shots at you. And you know, you're like, you know what? I'mma be the bigger person. I'mma let it walk. I'm going to let it slide. I'm going to be okay. And if I see that person, I'm like, hey, bro, I ain't got no hard feelings. I disagree with what you had to say. But, hey, let's keep it. Because for me, Joe, I played a professional sport, and I understand the opposing fan bases, or I understand the opposing team not liking me, but. But I didn't know so much vitriol and hate came until I got into this. I had no idea, Joe. I was so disliked by people that. That were in the business that I was in until, like, really until Katt. And people got upset. Like, joe Cat comes on your show, you introduce him, we do a read, just like I did you. And he just goes, are you stopping him?

[B]

No.

[A]

People say, I should have stopped him. I said, hold on when you do an interview, he told a story. You remember I had Rickey Smiley on. Ricky Smiley told a story that he was originally cast as Money Mike.

[B]

I remember that now, Joe. I do remember that.

[A]

How am I supposed to check that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm taking him at his word. He said what he said about. I was like, I don't know any of. I said, guys, y' all make it seem like I'm in the comedy space. And I know this. If I'm in the rap game, I probably know some rap beefs, but I'm not in it, so I can't speak to it. So if somebody comes and say I got a problem with or they did this, I gotta take em at their word.

[B]

Yeah, you can't. I don't do that either. I don't interrupt people while they in the middle of their testimony. Even if they getting off some bullshit, it's their bullshit to get off. Now if it happens to be bullshit and we learn that and the growing storyline is growing online, then it make a lot of sense and builds anticipation for my next episode, which is to address why this is bullshit. Or have the other side come on my show and do it that way. But no, I try to let people. Try to let people.

[A]

Yeah. Cause you was one of the ones that. And say, you don't mess with me no more.

[B]

But not over there.

[A]

No, but I'm just trying to figure out. Help me understand Messi.

[B]

Well, well, how deep we going?

[A]

As deep as.

[B]

How deep are we going?

[A]

As deep as your explanation. Need to explain.

[B]

Because I don't put. When you have. I think that people were coming on this show. I think after the Cat Williams interview.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which was. Congratulations.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

But after that, I think people were coming with a certain agenda. Who? Different guests.

[A]

I don't think anybody came and aired anybody out.

[B]

I think people were coming to get some shit off shortly after that.

[A]

You know, Monique was the only one. A lot of what Monique had said, Monique had already said Monique, the Lee Daniels, the Oprah, the Steve Harveys, the Kevin Hart. That wasn't the first time she said that. So let me ask you a question. So when people go on Oprah's show and they tell Oprah things that probably nobody else knew, is Oprah messy?

[B]

No.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

No.

[A]

Why not?

[B]

She's not messy.

[A]

Why?

[B]

She's creating the space. She's creating the space to hear something that we've never heard before.

[A]

So I'm not doing that.

[B]

You know what it Came off like with you, Shannon, I'll be honest with you, because Oprah's been here for my entire life doing shit with you. I'll use the example of music. Sometimes when Funkmaster Flex would get on the radio and drop all these bombs about a song. Yeah, New song, new song, new song, new song.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And not play some of the veterans music. Like the veterans would feel like you 50 years old. You're not getting in your car when you off work to put on MC Little Bubba like you pumping up on the radio. Yeah. So sometimes it was coming off like, okay, we know Shannon Sharpe. We know Shannon Sharpe from football. I don't think Shannon Sharpe give a about some of the mess that would come up. Some of it.

[A]

But see, here's the thing for me, and this was very strategic. And when I was at Fox, they didn't want me to interview a lot of the people that weren't sports related. I said, but in order for me to grow this platform, I'm gonna have to interview people other than sports. You got got to interview comedians, I got to interview celebs. I got to interview influencers in order to grow. So plus, at the end of the day, like you said, it's entertainment. I had no idea that so many people. I understand the comedic space is very competitive. Most areas are competitive. The tech space, the whatever the space may be. But I didn't know Cat peeled it away. They got upset at me because Cat told his story. If you go back and listen, Katt says, I came here because you allow a safe space for people to tell their stories uninterrupted. Now, if I wanted to be messy, I can show you some DMs. Well, let me come on and air this guy out. Let me tell you about what athlete I'm messing with. If I wanted to be messy. But that ain't what we do. I tell CJ all the time, I say, cj, look at this. Nah, we're not going there. Somebody said this about me? I said, nah, you can go on somebody else platform. As a matter of fact, I said, go to Joe. I said, joe let you. I said, but I can't do that. So if I was gonna be messy, Joe wouldn't I take that approach?

[B]

Shit, don't tell them, come to me and be messy. Don't tell them, come to me. Yeah, I like to be messy behind these people's backs.

[A]

Nah, hell nah.

[B]

I don't want to just open up the platform for that type of shit. And also that to what you're Saying, right? Like, I'm not mad at a little healthy mess.

[A]

No, I don't do that.

[B]

A little healthy mess. Oh, please. You don't do that. If you don't knock it off, you definitely do that.

[A]

I don't do that.

[B]

You definitely do that.

[A]

I allow a safe space, like Oprah. They call me bro. They call me Oprah. Boprah.

[B]

Yeah. So listen here, Joe, are you trying to get married or you just like, what's going on?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no. That's healthy.

[B]

That is a healthy mess. It's healthy mess.

[A]

How was that? I was like, joe, you ever heard of it?

[B]

It's a volleyball served to. And typically, people be here. They done had a few of these. Well, Shannon, you know what? She did say something about marriage the other day, but this is how I really feel.

[A]

I'll give you a prime example. G herbo, he came on, talked about his girl. He said, man, you know what? Now that you talking about it, hell, I'm thinking about going home and getting on the knee right now. What happened?

[B]

Congratulations. Yeah, two, by the way.

[A]

Congratulations. I guess I was being messy with that.

[B]

No, it can be. It can be messy. All right, again, pardon me for a minute.

[A]

Go ahead.

[B]

You good?

[A]

But so I. I wanted to get that cuz I didn't know how to get to.

[B]

Cuz I want healthy, healthy, healthy mess. Healthy, entertaining, lighthearted. Nobody's hurt, just friendly. Hey, toss this up there and see what happens. There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that.

[A]

I don't look at that as mess. I like to be called mopra. I just like to provide a safe space. And I think the thing is, Joe, the biggest thing is that when people come on, no matter what has transpired in their lives, I feel I can tell. You can tell your story without its most salacious details. You've been in this thing 20, 30, 40 years. Whatever your most embarrassing moment is, we ain't gotta mention it. And you can still tell your story and be who you are.

[B]

That's a fact. I agree with that.

[A]

And so that's. That's.

[B]

I agree with that.

[A]

A lot of times, people like Gary Owens. I didn't know Gary Owens was gonna share all that. He said, I had no idea. And then people get mad. Man, you made the man seem.

[C]

How.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

[A]

I'm like, I'm with you. I'm like, well, damn. So one of my. I said, you do realize a conversation anytime me and you tell me it's a. Hey, man, dude tried to run me over. Oh, really? You really? Well, I didn't get the guy. I done get the guy side to try to run you over. So theoretically, that's gossip. You say that's one side. Anytime it's one sided, it's gossip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in other words, Joe, what you're saying today that anybody that comes on the platform and the other person that he or she is talking about is not there to refute or corroborate that story. It is what? Gossip. Okay.

[B]

Gossip.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

That's all I wanted. That's all I wanted then. Now y' all hear. That's the Podfather talking. He been in this thing much longer than I have. I got five years in the game, about to be six in July. He been in this thing for like 20.

[B]

But when you go get the other side, it could be viewed as messy.

[A]

But that's the point.

[B]

Just so we clear.

[A]

I don't.

[C]

With Cargurus Discover, you can skip the filters and describe what you're looking for in your own words. Simply type what you want and Cargurus Discover instantly surfaces real listings that match your exact needs. It's no wonder Cargurus is the number one most visited car shopping site according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. Buy or sell your next car today with [e-mail]. go to cargurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C A R G u r u s.com cargurus.com man, there's never a.

[B]

World in this thing where somebody is not going to allege something about you if you're doing this properly. Right? There's that part. There's that part of it, too. Like, whatever model is successful, there is somebody out there that thinks otherwise or has something to say about how it's being done. That's just a fact. Joel.

[A]

The thing is, with Cat, do you know how long I tried to get Cat? Cause I wanted to get Cat a long time. Cause I thought he was Money Mike and the Pimp Chronicles. I was like, man, it's never gonna happen. Because, Kat, he's not gonna be on this side of town. And Cat don't like to fly. Cat take the tour bus?

[B]

Nah, you do. You do. See, and that's why you gotta trust God. The timing of that. The timing of that. I had Cat. I had Cat during COVID and during a movie promo where he had the publicist standing next to him and just. And he was still awesome. Don't get me wrong, it was during COVID so it was via Zoom. Yeah, you had him where y' all could get to what y' all needed.

[A]

To really get to, But I had no. And the lady. I'm going off the elevator. I had never seen this lady before in my life. Joe. She said, hey, how you doing, Shannon? I say, do I know you, ma'? Am? She's like, no. She's like, told me her name. She said, what are you doing here? I said, my attorney is here. I mean, he's been here. Said, I didn't know that. She said, today. I'm leaving today. My last day of work. I said, oh, well, congratulations. Hope you get something great. I said, if you don't mind me doing, what are you going to do? She tells me what she's going to do. And I was like, man, I've been trying to get KA for two years. She said, oh, really? Okay. I ain't think nothing else about it. Left it alone just like that. That was a Friday. The following Friday, Cat sitting on the couch across from me. Now, you asked me when we started, man, how many cue cards you got? I had another 30 minutes to go. I said, Man, CJ, my producer. I said, we rap. Cat said, we done. I was like, yeah, I think we got everything. He like, you sure? I was like, yeah, I'm done.

[B]

He knew. He knew what was going.

[A]

No, Joe. So CJ looking at the back and CJ shaking his head. I said, oh, man, we done messed up. I was like, let me take this mic pack off. I said, what happened? He said, shelly, you gonna break the imp? I say, really?

[B]

C.J.

[A]

Said, we had it, Joe.

[B]

I know what that's like.

[A]

Joe. I had no idea, though. Joe, come out. I'm sitting there.

[B]

I mean. Cause you in it.

[A]

Yes, you in it.

[B]

Yes, you in. You're in it. You don't even know what just happened. No, you just working. You got it done. They get to see it different.

[A]

They're looking at different. I'm saying, cj, he said, no. He said, shannon, this is going to break it. And he said, shannon, they going to talk about this forever. I said, you think so, C.J.

[B]

He said, yeah, the foresight in it. Just the. The. The prophet, he was able to be like. He started that year off with shit that even if you thought that it sounded crazy, I mean, Cat is Cat. Highly, highly intellectually, highly intelligent, well read. So he know what he's saying. But even if you thought he was.

[A]

Crazy a little bit, the way that year played Out. I was like, oh my Lord. Do you know how hard it was to book Gaff? I ain't coming on after Cat. I was like, bro, it's the only person. I mean, the only person was. What's their country Wayne? Country Wayne. Country Wayne said, I'll come.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

I was like, okay.

[B]

But you know what's funny though? Like they always tell you in music, right? Don't go in the studio trying to.

[A]

Make a hit, right?

[B]

Like just go be creative.

[A]

Just be you.

[B]

Like, and it be the song or the session that you just made. Just. And that's the one to go.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

That's the one that's just out of here. You just had no idea.

[A]

Well, your moment came. Pump it up.

[B]

Yeah, that was my, my first big moment. Yeah.

[A]

What was that moment like? Did you like, I'm here now, I'm here.

[B]

No, I was 22. I was 22, 23 years old. So no, it was fun. I got to travel to world and wasn't experienced. I made some money, lost some money. It was a good, good contract. Not bad contract, good contracts, somewhat.

[A]

Well, it's hard, I mean, when you're young to save all your money. You just hope you in there long enough to recoup it. But you gotta buy some stuff, Joe. You ain't. We come from nothing.

[B]

I was, Listen, I was 23. I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't have the slightest clue about taxes. I didn't have the slightest clue about how to pay a ticket. I didn't have probably a license. I had a big Hummer, no license, just riding out places. Then I think my business accountant took all my money.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

And then I was broke. And then all the label heads changed and went somewhere else. Then I never put another album out. And then I fended for myself for the rest of my career. So yes, Bump it up was a lot of fun, but short lived. Shortly after that. You in the trenches.

[A]

Do you regret not putting out another album?

[B]

Well, I put out a ton of albums, just not on.

[A]

On a major list.

[B]

Def Jam, right in that system. No. Yeah, yeah. No major label at that time. We later did Slaughterhouse on. On Interscope, which is a major label. But at that time, no. At that time, all I wanted was independence, right? All I wanted was independence. All I wanted was to cut out all of these political talking heads and execs that don't know me or my music or don't really care. Everybody had a different interest other than who I was. And I learned that at the time. So I spent years fighting for independence to get out of a bad recording contract, to get out of a bad publishing contract or contracts that just didn't suit me or reflect the market. As time went on, it was just all bad. So my whole career has been a story of fighting for independence and persevering.

[A]

What didn't you know about the music business?

[B]

Anything? I didn't know. I didn't know the budget that was attached to every everything in music. Recording budget, marketing budget, promo budget. I didn't know about lawyers.

[A]

I didn't know all that come out of yours.

[B]

Oh yeah, everything comes out of yours. Everything. Everything's recoupable at this time.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Cause you can't get anything popping without the labels. You can't. This is physical products still people going to the stores by buying albums and buying shit. So if you, you gotta, you gotta store this music somewhere. You gotta have your video going. You got anything that was music at 23 years old. I didn't know, I didn't even understand.

[A]

It when it was radio play.

[B]

You need a hit record. All right? What is a hit record? Okay, what, how do you get one of those? I didn't know who was producing what. I didn't know shit. I was from Jersey, I rapped well, and here I am. So all of it was learning. All of it was learning. I was never gonna make it. I was never gonna make it there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I didn't know anything. I didn't have any information. So fun times though. Fun times. Everybody can't say that they have. Smashed timeless smash. I still hear Pump it Up places today. Like I hear when you first heard.

[A]

It, what did you say you like I made it?

[B]

Well, when I hear it today or in recent years or just as I've grown up, it's like I hear 22 year old Joe Button, I hear the guy that was a great emcee that was doing his best on this beat that he got from Just Blaze. And if I don't come up with something, they'll drop me from my label. Like I hear that guy who had the world ahead of him, but he delivered, right? He delivered. That's the important part. You asked, you called me to the plate at 23 to hit something out of the park. And I did that. So early on, that's what it tells me today, is that early on I showcased the ability to be able to hit one out the park.

[A]

Well, I tell you what, I sense you with that Def Jam, give me your Mount Rushmore. Def Jam.

[B]

Def Jam, LL Cool J. Okay. Has to be LL Cool J. There's a trick in this question.

[A]

It ain't no trick.

[B]

No, not. Not from you. Not from you, but you.

[A]

I mean, it's like with anything, you'll be some people off.

[B]

Run DMC was Def Jam.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's a trick. One of the artists that we think is Def Jam wasn't Def Jam me up. That. I can't remember that right now. Yeah, I'm going. Lo Cool J, some people. Oh, I'm doing more than four.

[A]

You want me to. Go ahead, put. You want me give you some?

[B]

Because. Because I'm. Because Beastie Boys. I would have to do the Beastie Boys if Run DMC was there. Then Run DMC has to be there. But Jay Z and DMX have to be there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So Kanye's there, Rihanna's there.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

All of that.

[B]

I don't care about none of that.

[A]

You ain't leaving Kanye.

[B]

I don't care about none of that.

[A]

You leaving.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

You leaving Kanye?

[B]

Yeah. You said. You said Mount Rushmore.

[A]

Yeah. So you got ll. You got Run dmc.

[B]

You can't forget the forefathers.

[A]

That's what they'll say.

[B]

You can't forget the forefathers, the people that paved the way for all these other great people.

[A]

LL has got to be the foundation.

[B]

What?

[A]

The foundation piece.

[B]

He's got to be after ll. I don't really care what you do. LL is the reason that there was a Def Jam. Yeah. For the rest of us.

[A]

Yeah. He's the reason there is a Def Jam. You're absolutely right on that.

[B]

Yeah. After him. I don't care.

[A]

Who's your favorite artist today? Who? Joe Budden. Listen to.

[B]

Oh, I'm an R and B head.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So no more I'm R and B head. So I listen to all R and B. Anybody that's making R and B music, I'm listening to.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Whether it be current, whether it be some oldies.

[A]

That's all I am.

[B]

I think I was just.

[A]

I'm on the Grooves on Sirius. That's all I listen to.

[B]

Yeah. I'm doing Donnell Jones, Carl Thomas after seven. I've been on a Ralph Tres Band kick lately. Tony Braxton, Anita Baker, Bryson Tiller, Chris Brown. Lloyd's been there. Who else? I could go on forever. Anything. R and B, I'm listening to.

[A]

Okay. Okay, man. You've been very open about the. The. The progression of how wild and maybe reckless or crazy you were in your younger years. And you mentioned a lot of that had to do with drugs and things of that nature. When did you come to that realization? Like, man, Joe, I gotta change or this is not gonna end well for me. What was. What was that. What was that moment?

[B]

Well, I've had that moment a few times in my life, so. Which time? The first time?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The very first time.

[A]

No. You know what? You don't have to give me the first time. What was it about this last time that made it stick?

[B]

This last time was the perk epidemic. This last time was when the doctors were writing all these slips in the hospitals and prescribing the perks and people were getting hooked on them. Perks and oxys. They did. Damn. What's the TV show they did about it? I don't remember right now. Not Dopesick, but the Sackler family. The Sackler family, Yeah. I went to the hospital around 2008, 2009 with what I understood to be a issue with my hand that turned into something bigger than we thought. They prescribed me with medicine. Perks were on that list. And when I left the hospital, I was hooked to perks. I was addicted to Percocets and Oxycontins and was able to get them on the street level in bulk.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Oh, yeah, my Altoid case would be rocking. I didn't leave home with less than 40 pills on me.

[A]

What?

[B]

30S? Too big boy. So I didn't leave home without him, just in case you bumped into a party. But you do that long enough, your body starts to become almost dependent on it. And if you get off it or try to get off it, you start going through these really deep and intense withdrawals, Cold sweats at night. I. I couldn't. I couldn't live like that. I couldn't live like that. I was killing myself slowly but surely. I thank God every day that I experienced that at the time that I did, because that was before fentanyl. And what fentanyl is out here doing and how undetectable it is unless you're out there actually testing every drug that you take. The pill head that I was, I would kill myself. Yeah. Because there's no doubt about it, I'd have been dead just like that.

[A]

And you just woke up one day and like, you know what? That's it.

[B]

I mean, I don't want to say it like I woke up one day. Like I just had all this self control. I had. I have people. My parents, my instrumental in that. My. My friend group, my everybody in my life was really instrumental in weaning me off of that stuff. And it wasn't overnight. It was a struggle indeed. But again, I thank God it happened back then and not now. Right.

[A]

Did you go to rehab?

[B]

No, I didn't. I mean, I've been before in my life, but not for perks. Again, this perk shit. I'm talking about 2000 and whatever years. I just said 8, 9, 10. Like in 2008. 9, 10. I'm a rapper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I wasn't one of those. You know how the white people are able. The white people are able to. They. They got some shit going on. Hey, I'm going into this two week facility.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they come out. No, that wasn't our bag. We couldn't. If I went away somewhere, bills ain't getting paid. Yeah. And I'm famous. And at the time, your pill addiction is taboo to even discuss out there because all of us are zombies moving around. So. Nah, we all needed. So we all needed to get educated on what that was doing.

[A]

I read you tried Olympic for a week and couldn't eat or poop for a week.

[B]

I'm on it right now.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

And now it was epic. I'm not on zempic. I'm on zepp.

[A]

Zeppety.

[B]

I'm on zepbound. Zepbound. This is my. What's today? What's today?

[A]

Monday.

[B]

Today and Monday. Like my second week. This is my second week. Well, no, this week will start my third week. I love it.

[A]

You notice the difference pretty good.

[B]

Between what? Oh, do I notice the difference?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No, there's a difference. I told you I was trying to get dressed and put something on to come here and I couldn't fit in. Shit. I lost a lot of weight.

[A]

How much weight do you think you've lost?

[B]

I'm sure I'm less than £220 right now. And I. When I. But my weight loss started before I started taking the Z. Right. I did some dietary changes. I did some dietary changes. I added some things to my workout routine. And for December, I was like, you know what? We're going to rock and roll. So I was losing weight already. Right. This was just supposed to be like an extra oomph.

[A]

The boom. That basket.

[B]

Yeah. That's just all it was supposed to be. And I'm probably under 220 right now. Was over 240.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what's the ideal weight for Joe? You wanna try to get down to 200? 210? 250.

[B]

No, no, no. I'd like to walk around at probably if I'm 220 right now, I'd like to. I could see between 210 and 215. I still. Anything less than that, I wouldn't feel comfortable being out outside just in case something gotta go on.

[A]

You done got too big. You gotta run. Not Joe, I got it. You gotta run.

[B]

You gotta.

[A]

I can't run. I just walk fast.

[B]

Yeah. I'm not running. I told you my knee. Something happened, man. But yeah, yeah. 210. 210 to 215 would be a good walk around weight. Yeah. Look at y'. All. Y' all done told Shannon about the zip.

[A]

Nah, Zap. No, but look, I know about it. You on it.

[B]

No, I gotta ask. You look good to be your age.

[A]

I fit yourself, Beatrice.

[B]

Your age. You look good.

[A]

No, I still work out. Not like I used to. Not like I used to, but then. Hold on. But oh, you know what? Now I remember. That's why you got in trouble. Cause you made a joke on your show about Ozipic that zip it. When by your former co host.

[B]

No. You know what happened? You so good.

[A]

I'm just saying, you did. You got in trouble, Joe. I remember you.

[B]

So you know this guy is good at what he does. I ain't gonna lie to you. This is what happened. What you're talking about. I was getting on a co host for hiding it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not doing it. I didn't even have enough understanding of what it was. I just felt like if you're doing this and this is all the rave out in the street and everybody's doing it, then coming in and tell us about it. Let's. Let's talk about it. Don't be so. Like. Yeah, so it wasn't for.

[A]

But people don't want you to know. People just want you to think. They go into the gym, they eat it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They don't want you to think that they're getting a help.

[B]

If I'm watching you go in another the room with throwing up and cramps and whatever you're doing, then it's like, okay, something's going on over there. So. Yeah, but I get people wanting to keep a secret. I'm not. I'm not mad at that. Not me. My whole life I'm with just telling it like it is. If I'm on it, you're going to hear about it from me.

[A]

So are you working out also?

[B]

I've been working out, yeah. Yeah, I've been working out.

[A]

Eating right. You eat properly?

[B]

Yes, I'M as health. I'm the healthiest right this second that I've probably ever been. Lifestyle wise.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Lifestyle wise. And these are from. These are from. Listen, man, I'm not. We have lost too many people for me to. I encourage the people listening. Go get all of that shit done. All of it. It's annoying, I know. I almost stopped the full body MRI right at the tail end of it. Let me out this little tight ass machine. But no, you gotta do it. Get the heart. Get the heart scan. I almost sound like I'm preaching, but it's just that important. There's too many people dropping debt. Yeah. Scared to get a scan, all that.

[A]

Yeah. Well, all for what? What insurance cost. I get everything done.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Hey, I meet my D Will probably first month of the year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I get everything done, dog.

[B]

It's that important.

[A]

It is.

[B]

It's that important.

[A]

You mentioned your basketball. You. That you like to play basketball. You done with basketball? You need bad.

[B]

That was many, many, many years ago. Many years ago. I'm done with basketball. Last year, we just. For recreation, we went and had a basketball game, rented out some gym in Jersey. I went out there and made a complete fool of myself. That was actually the start of me saying, you know what? We gotta make some lifestyle changes. If I can't get out here and score a bucket in 21 without huffing and puffing, then we gotta make some changes.

[A]

Well, Joe, you can't be a part of the podcast wars. Dan, I'm sorry.

[B]

No, I can't. No, I can't. These is professional athletes. Y' all are professional athletes. X. X. Nah, nigga. You've been doing this all.

[A]

This.

[B]

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

[A]

I'm like, you know, hey, no, sir. Cause we mentioned a couple of pods. I was like, you know what? We gotta get Joe Budden into this thing, too.

[B]

You know who were the pods?

[A]

It was a US. It was McAfee pivot. All the smoke.

[B]

520.

[A]

520.

[B]

520.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So all of the athletes. Y' all can have that.

[A]

Hold on. I'm sure somebody on the set was an athlete at one point in time. Maybe not professional.

[B]

Listen, if y' all need people to commentate or if y' all just need some. Some extra support on the sidelines, then please feel free.

[A]

We got other things. Look, we got table tennis. Can you shoot pool?

[B]

You know, you know, no, not the.

[A]

Damn, Joe.

[B]

You know what? I could do that. All of the famous celebrity people Just never seem to. They just seem to run for me every time I say it.

[A]

What?

[B]

So maybe I could talk some shit here. I can't find a good spade game anymore.

[A]

Now you know I can't find it.

[B]

I can't find it.

[A]

I'm a spadeologist.

[B]

Oh, my. See, and this is part of why. And this is part of why.

[A]

Tell me somebody went to an HBCU that can't play spades. Joe.

[B]

See, and this is the thing.

[A]

I got a PhD.

[B]

A lot of people went to HBCU. See, this is the thing about spades. Simple rules. So everybody knows how to play the game with spades. Everybody don't play spades.

[A]

Look, I just want to know how you playing.

[B]

Any, any way you want to play.

[A]

Big joker, little joker, ace, king, a big, big joker, little joker, deuce or diamond D. How we play it anyway in the world. But see, that's what I'm seeing.

[B]

Joker, joker, deuce, deuce, joker, joker, ace, king.

[A]

That's what I'm talking about.

[B]

Ace down. We could do ace checks. We could do.

[A]

That's all.

[B]

I just don't play kindergarten spades. I don't play well. I normally don't play for free because I'm great, but if I' ma play for free, I'm not doing the blinds and bags and.

[A]

Oh, yeah, see. Oh, so you. Oh, you don't want to count though. You're not counting the overs because if you get so many overs, you get back on it.

[B]

Well, no, because if I'm not playing for free, if you don't get them, you don't bid them, you don't get them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you have a hand and you sitting there playing for enough money, you are going to want to bid them. There's no incentive to not bid your hand in the non free game. I like to see only with the amateurs.

[A]

You sitting there.

[B]

Ah, I got two.

[A]

Yeah, I like the big seven.

[B]

I didn't see these.

[A]

Yeah, well, I like the sandbag.

[B]

And then.

[A]

Cause I know what you gonna say, man, you had all the bid your hand, don't bid mine.

[B]

Yeah, but see, but also most times it's 10 books or less books made. So five. Five books made. Six. Four books made. So if somebody is sandbagging, then we just gonna keep sitting here.

[A]

I'm trying to say, all right, what you got?

[B]

All right, we gonna board. What you do? Oh, y' all gonna bored. Oh, all right.

[A]

Oh, you go. No, no, no, no, no, no, you go bored. I'm trying to. I'm not Gonna even let you get bored.

[B]

But if you don't bid them, that's okay.

[A]

I just want you to go back.

[B]

You got a partner? Cause you got some money, too. I'd love.

[A]

Yeah, I'd love to come over here.

[B]

And take a few of your dol.

[A]

Individual spade. You ever played it like that?

[B]

Tell me more.

[A]

Shuffle the cards. Pull a card. If you like it, you keep it. Turn the other one face down.

[B]

No, I've never heard of that. I've heard of contract spades, where two people are seated here and my partner is not there, but we're gonna put the hand face up and everybody can see it. And I'm gonna play both hands. I've heard of that now.

[A]

Sweet. We play, like, a lot of times, you ain't got no. You don't have no partner. It's just me versus you. So we gonna shuffle the cards. I got an ace of diamond. I'm gonna keep that. I don't look at the next card. I turn it face down. So I don't know what that is. That could have been the.

[B]

I have played this. I 100% have played. Yeah, I knew it sounded a little for me. I played this.

[A]

I played this boy that get interested because he's like, damn. Does he have the ace of diamonds? Damn.

[B]

Well, if there's ever a time where you are in the Tri State area, who your partner? My dad.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Beat breaks off, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Me and my homeboy Burns. I. I come up here just to beat. Beat the brakes off you.

[B]

We've won tournaments. We got. Got trophies. We. We've been doing it. If you ask. See, I don't want you to leave here, ask about us, and then I don't hear from you. Because if you ask enough people, somebody's going to tell you, oh, you got the trophy. We both got trophies.

[A]

Well, I'm gonna come get it.

[B]

We both see.

[A]

You had a trophy. You. You got it. I'm glad. I just needed to know who had it.

[B]

Yeah, well, you come on. You come and get it then. God damn it.

[A]

Let's get out. Sports. Jets or Giants?

[B]

I'm a Giants fan. I'm not an ets. Anything. Nets, Mets, Jets.

[A]

So Yankees, Giants, Knicks?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Yes, sir.

[A]

It's been a struggle for you guys lately, man.

[B]

Which guys? Which guys?

[A]

Giants, Knicks, Yankees.

[B]

Oh, all of us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. That's not true.

[A]

But you, first of all, were you alive when the Knicks last won the championship?

[B]

No, I wasn't alive.

[A]

Okay, the giants it's been 2000, what, 10? 2010. That's been 15 years.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The Yankees has been 2009. So it's been a while. It's been a while.

[B]

Damn. Has it been 09?

[A]

You sure about it now?

[B]

Positive. Okay, well, I was there for it, but it's all right. What does that mean?

[A]

I mean, y' all gotta. You gonna have a new. You gonna have a new head coach at the Giants who you want. You want Harbaugh?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Out of the. Out of the guys that have been presented. Yeah, yeah, I'll take Harbaugh. He's asking for a lot.

[A]

Yeah, y' all got it.

[B]

I'll take him. Listen, I can't even be mad. I can't believe the Giants won those last two games and the season and.

[A]

Mess y' all up. Mess y' all draft people.

[B]

We do it every year. We do it every year. So I'm not. I'm not gonna cry over spill mill. I just want them to get. Get a good draft pick. Get a good draft pick.

[A]

Where are you on AI?

[B]

The use of it? Yeah, I think it will be very helpful, and it's gonna eventually change the world. It's gonna be get down and lay down. Either you learn it or be left behind. I'm not with using your image and.

[A]

Stu voices and stuff like that. Huh?

[B]

Yeah. I think the laws will have to update so people's likeness can continue to be protected. See, I'm not with that. It's so new, so I'm with the concept, but it has to be sort of. I'm not with AI being able to take dead, black dead celebrities, make something or sell something and not have to.

[A]

And they don't have to. They don't get bit.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I'm not with that. I'm not with that. So it just need to be sorted out. But can it be a really positive tool? I think it can, and I think it will be.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Have rappers reached out to you about starting a podcast? Since you've been at this thing for so long, you're so successful at it?

[B]

Yeah, they have. They have all the time. Podcast, I mean, not. Not podcast. Rappers reached out all the time to get some information, see if they should start, what they should do, get some advice. I don't gatekeep it. I don't gatekeep it. I don't gatekeep it when the phone ring, what you want to talk about. But yeah, I'm happy to see a lot of people thriving in the space, especially rappers.

[A]

You're like, I am. But I tell her, oh, man, I ain't really trying to work like you be working, man. You own every.

[B]

Well, oh, then you should talk to somebody.

[A]

Well, then you should talk to. I know you get it, too.

[B]

People won't say that to me.

[A]

That's what they say, man.

[B]

People won't say that you work, man.

[A]

I see you on all the time. I mean, you and Ocho on four, five nights a week, you doing club shots. I'm like, bro, I mean, yo, if.

[B]

You ain't down to work, then what conversation? What are we starting this conversation with?

[A]

And plus. And what I tell them, though, plus, because we're kind of like, like four nights, Four or five nights a week. You know, sporting events happen on the weekend. You know, sporting events are played on the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year. I say, you do understand that, right?

[B]

Nighttime? Yes, man.

[A]

What kind of like I said, well, those are sacrifices that you have to make. I mean, I can assure you, before Amazon became Amazon, Jeff Bezos was working weekends and on holidays.

[B]

Sure enough.

[A]

Sure enough, whoever the biggest person, what it is, whatever genre it is, I guarantee you they had to make sacrifices at some point in time before they could say, you know what? No, I'm off this Christmas.

[B]

But I can't lie to you. I've grown to appreciate the fact that everybody's not like that. Actually, I've come to love the fact that everybody's not like that. I love the separation that it creates. Like I do. I love the fact that everyone's engine and hardwire is just not wired like that. Yeah, it, it, it, it creates a very clear separation between those that do and those that will not. And everybody to great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But people wonder why. But Joe, you know what people ask, well, man, why is such and such so good? Why is he so great having the success that I've been able to have? You think LeBron and Tom Brady and all those guys think about the sacrifices to be that great for that long, what that entails to do what you've done in this space for as long as you have. That is a sacrifice. But people always talk about what goals. I'm sure you like what goals, but I always ask, okay, you wrote down your goals on the left side. On the right side. Did you write down the sacrifices that you're willing to make to reach said goals? Nobody want to write down the sacrifices, which is working on the weekends, working at night, working extra working. You know, we've gone Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, going Tuesday, Off Wednesday again, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Man, that's too much. Okay, well, I don't know what you want me to tell you.

[B]

Listen, everybody want to own some shit until it's time to own some shit. Yes, everybody want to be successful until they find out what it looks like to be successful like. And that's the grind of it. I love all of this shit though. See, and that's what I mean, just about being passionate.

[A]

Yes, I love what you do. So you don't look at it as work, you don't look at it as a job.

[B]

I'm showing up for this shit and if I don't know it, never did it, then we gonna do it that way. But I love it too much. I'm with all the bullshit that comes with it.

[A]

What would a 20 year old tell the 30 year old Joe?

[B]

So what would a 20 year old tell 30 year old Joe?

[A]

And then I'm gonna ask what the 30 year old told the 40 year old. And the 40, what's the 40 gonna tell the 50?

[B]

Shit. What was going on when I was 30.

[A]

That wasn't too long ago.

[B]

At 20 I didn't have too much information even about myself. So I would have been limited in what I could share with my older self. At 20 I was just. I would have let my older self hear verse. I would have rapped for my 30 year old self is what I would have done. And I would have hoped that he was able to hear some talent and pull something from it. But I didn't know how to do shit but rapping. At 20 years old, I didn't have nothing to offer nobody. I had left school. I was getting my information from real life experience from the streets, from just alternative means and measures. So yeah, I didn't have nothing I could offer nobody.

[A]

Then you turned 30.

[B]

Oh, now when I turned 30, that was a peak depression. Damn peak depression. 30 years old, you weren't where you.

[A]

Wanted to be in life or things.

[B]

Were going nowhere and absolutely nowhere near it. Nowhere near it. I was just doing what I loved and doing all I knew how to do to stay alive, which was make music still. But by 30 I had already. I'm already up from my music business trauma, my first few relationships trauma. I don't have no money. At 30 I'm just partying. I'm just partying and drugging. Yeah, I think that.

[A]

Yeah, well you was glad to get out of your 30s, hit the 40s, but now you're in your 40s.

[B]

Well, by 30, by 3435. I was like, you know, what, am.

[A]

I gonna make it to 40 and.

[B]

I should prep for it, right? Like, what do I want my 40s to look like? And this, whatever we've been doing ain't the route. So let's start gearing up for that. I think that's the mistake a lot of people make. They wait too long. It was 34, 35 when I was like, like, what's going on in my 40s? The same way right now I'm 45. I'll be 46 in August. But right now I'm like, what do I want my 50s to look like? Okay, so I should build.

[A]

I should start prepping.

[B]

Build the house now. Buy the lot now. You got to prep for it. Yes, you got to prep for it. What will my 30 year old self have told my 40 year old self? Probably just, do you want to get high again? Nothing of substance. Nothing of no substance. Still trying to find myself. It wasn't till now where I'd be able to give somebody some advice.

[A]

When you drive, you say you don't drive, but when you're sitting in your car and your driver is driving you to and from, let's just say he's driving you back home from work and you're sitting in the back of your car and you're probably just looking out the window. What's going through Joe's head?

[B]

Oh, everything. I don't turn my brain off. Work, relationship with. I mean, relationship stuff, parenting stuff, both sides. With my kids and with my parents and the workload. I Probably, yeah, probably 70, 75 of my, my brain power is just focused on work. Just work.

[A]

Cause you have to. You come in the city to shoot the show?

[B]

Hell no, I don't come to city. You crazy. I came in the city to do this. Sit down with you.

[A]

Well, I appreciate that.

[B]

I don't just rush to come to no damn city. I'm a Jersey head.

[A]

Oh, your studio's in Jersey.

[B]

I'm in New Jersey.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I live in New Jersey, so I'm, I'm, I don't come.

[A]

Yeah, you don't have to. I don't absolutely have to come.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not coming. I was shocked on the way over here.

[A]

Like, damn, all this construction. Tell me about it.

[B]

I was like, oh, they doing a lot of work.

[A]

I used to, I used to work in New York for, for a decade. And coming up here, I feel. Don't miss.

[B]

No, it's a Nightmare, man.

[A]

Coming, coming, coming from the airport, whether it's LaGuardia or JFK is a effing nightmare.

[B]

Yeah. Then you a slave to like traffic times. Slave to traffic time.

[A]

Is there any good time for traffic?

[B]

Yeah, but this just be traffic when you don't expect. It was 30 minutes to get two blocks, three blocks. I'm like, thank God I'm early. You know, I'm a Jersey boy.

[A]

We record over late night. Were you interested into a late night?

[B]

Interested in. There was a time I could have seen myself doing it. I think the medium, like I said, is different now. Right. So, you know, that's, that's streaming. That's, that's streaming now. But would I have done it? Could I have done it? Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[A]

What's the future of media? You like to say you like to look at things in blocks. Five, ten year blocks, five years, ten years from now. What are we talking about?

[B]

What are we doing in five to 10 years? One or some of these companies that we view as a behemoth in the space will be insignificant and obsolete in five to 10 years. If not more than that. Wow. If not more than that. I see the personalities continuing to take over. There'll be some smaller companies that just make the right decisions. Paired with personalities.

[A]

Yeah, correct.

[B]

And there'll be a lot of success there. What else do I see in five to 10 years? I see growth. I see growth for the media space and all around growth. I'm talking about an audience. Financially. It's all about how things will be consumed in five to 10 years. Really. I mean, that's the race. That's the race. That's what everybody's fighting for and data, eyes, ears, data and consumption. That's, that's, that's it.

[A]

Anything you want to promote, anything you got going on you want to tell the audience about?

[B]

Not at all. Check out the Joe Budden podcast. Subscribe to the Patreon. All the shit that Shannon promotes, it's the same shit. You heard him say it. You're one person said, everybody then said it.

[A]

How often is what days is the Joe Budden podcast? What days can they find it?

[B]

We drop four times a week on Patreon. So we drop Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Depending on how we feel, it could be bonus content. Throughout the other days, we try to drop as much as we can. So subscribe to the Patreon at Joe Button. Check out the podcast. Shannon again, thank you for having me. This was amazing.

[A]

Podfather Joe Budden.

[B]

All my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price Wanna slice, got to roll a dice that's why all my life I've been grinding.

[A]

All all my life look all my.

[B]

Life Been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price Want a slice, got to roll a dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life.