Club Shay Shay - Keith Lee Part 1

Summary

Club Shay Shay - Keith Lee Part 1
Released on December 4, 2024

Guests:

• Keith Lee: Internet's most popular food critic, Forbes 30 Under 30 (2024), former MMA fighter, husband, and father with over 19 million followers across TikTok and Instagram.

---

1. Introduction and Background

The episode kicks off with Hoda Kotb introducing Keith Lee, highlighting his impressive credentials as a viral food critic and former mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter. Keith Lee shares his journey from the fighting arena to becoming a prominent figure in the food critique community.

Notable Quote:

• [02:15] Hoda Kotb: "God is amazing, man. I'm honored to be."

---

2. Favorite Cities for Food

Keith and Hoda delve into their top five cities for food, discussing the unique culinary landscapes of each. Hoda ranks New Orleans, Houston, and Chicago as her top three, emphasizing accessibility and the authentic, local flavors these cities offer. Keith counters by suggesting other cities like Atlanta and New York, but Hoda explains her criteria for selection.

Notable Quotes:

• [03:05] Keith Lee: "Let's hear your top five."
• [03:12] Hoda Kotb: "New Orleans is number one."
• [04:28] Hoda Kotb: "New York isn't in that top five for me because the accessibility to know the spots is really hard to find great spots unless you're from there."

---

3. Underrated and Overrated Cities

The conversation shifts to underrated cities, with Hoda highlighting Detroit, Seattle, Baton Rouge, Arizona, Milwaukee, and Dallas. She underscores the unique culinary offerings and cultural significance of each location. Conversely, both Hoda and Keith express reservations about cities like New York and Atlanta, citing issues with service and exclusivity rather than the quality of food.

Notable Quotes:

• [05:53] Hoda Kotb: "Detroit has a food scene that not a lot of people know about."
• [07:20] Hoda Kotb: "But the barbecue alone carries some of the best I've ever had in my life."

---

4. The Atlanta Experience and Service Concerns

Hoda shares her critical views on Atlanta's food scene, not solely based on the food but predominantly on the service. She explains how exclusivity and the necessity of having a certain status or influence to access the best spots detract from the overall dining experience. This perspective received unexpected backlash, including severe reactions from locals.

Notable Quotes:

• [07:30] Hoda Kotb: "New York, Atlanta... they be hyping this up and it ain't even like that, food-wise."
• [09:08] Hoda Kotb: "When I went on the food tour, it wasn't just to find the best food, but to highlight restaurants with great food and customer service that lack marketing support."

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5. Personal Journey: From MMA to Food Critique

Keith and Hoda delve into Hoda's personal history, exploring how her background in MMA and wrestling influenced her approach to life and work. Hoda recounts her struggles with social anxiety, stemming from a challenging childhood and tumultuous family relationships. The transition from fighting to food critique was a pivotal moment, driven by necessity and a desire to support her family during financial hardships.

Notable Quotes:

• [19:59] Hoda Kotb: "During the pandemic, I started doing TikTok to help with my anxiety and social interactions."
• [39:04] Hoda Kotb: "The main reason I ended up fighting was because I got kicked out of school and couldn't afford college. My brother saw me depressed and took me to the gym, and I never looked back."

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6. Overcoming Adversity and Building a New Career

Hoda describes the turning point when she was released from Bellator MMA, facing eviction and financial instability. With her family's support, she began posting daily food reviews on TikTok, a decision that rapidly transformed her life. Her authentic and unbiased critiques resonated with a broad audience, leading to viral success and lucrative sponsorships.

Notable Quotes:

• [61:14] Hoda Kotb: "I was just cooking for my wife, recording myself, and decided to start food reviews to help support us."
• [70:06] Keith Lee: "Why do you think people connect with your videos?"
• [71:25] Hoda Kotb: "I take this extremely seriously. It's about the people behind the restaurants and their stories."

---

7. The Sushi Incident and Its Aftermath

A significant moment in the episode involves Hoda recounting an incident where she allegedly consumed a piece of sushi that appeared to have something moving in it. Although she cannot confirm the specifics, this incident garnered substantial attention online and led to the temporary closure of the restaurant. Hoda emphasizes her commitment to supporting businesses and her willingness to return to review the establishment if given the chance.

Notable Quotes:

• [12:12] Keith Lee: "Did you try crazy foods?"
• [14:19] Hoda Kotb: "Somebody was hospitalized after we ate there. I want to send my support to that person."
• [16:30] Keith Lee: "Would you be open to going back and offering another review?"
• [16:30] Hoda Kotb: "Absolutely, if I'm welcomed and it's about supporting the business."

---

8. Reflections on MMA and Potential Returns

The discussion returns to MMA, where Hoda shares insights into her fighting career, including her record and the challenges she faced. She reflects on the discipline and resilience MMA instilled in her, which she now applies to her food critique endeavors. Despite her success in food critique, she contemplates the possibility of returning to the Octagon, highlighting the financial and familial considerations that influence her decision.

Notable Quotes:

• [40:45] Keith Lee: "You had an 8-5 record in MMA. What's the hardest part about MMA?"
• [48:22] Hoda Kotb: "The hardest part was relinquishing control and trusting the process."
• [49:23] Hoda Kotb: "My wife wants me to officially retire, so that's the main reason I haven't returned."

---

9. Impact and Community Influence

Hoda elaborates on how her food reviews not only spotlight excellent restaurants but also uplift underserved communities. By highlighting local eateries that mirror her background, she fosters a sense of community and supports small businesses struggling with limited marketing resources. Her approach ensures that her reviews are genuine and impactful, often leading to significant boosts for the featured establishments.

Notable Quotes:

• [80:19] Hoda Kotb: "It's deeper than just the food; it's about the people behind the restaurants."
• [81:50] Keith Lee: "You grade on a scale of 1 to 10, how do you come to the... Have you ever given a 10?"
• [83:45] Hoda Kotb: "A 10 means the dish is perfect with nothing to change."

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10. Future Endeavors and Legacy

As the conversation wraps up, Hoda and Keith discuss potential future projects, including celebrity boxing matches. Hoda expresses skepticism about such events unless they align with her values and financial necessities. She emphasizes the importance of integrity and legacy over monetary gains, reflecting her grounded and principled approach to her burgeoning career.

Notable Quotes:

• [55:48] Hoda Kotb: "I'm not opposed to going back if it's about supporting the business, not just a review."
• [58:39] Keith Lee: "Would you do a celebrity boxing match?"
• [59:38] Hoda Kotb: "I feel like it's about integrity and standing on something lasting rather than chasing money."

---

Conclusion

Keith Lee Part 1 of Club Shay Shay offers an intimate glimpse into Hoda Kotb's transformative journey from a struggling MMA fighter to a celebrated food critic. Through candid discussions about her personal struggles, professional challenges, and unwavering dedication to supporting her community, Hoda exemplifies resilience and authenticity. Her unique approach to food critique not only entertains but also empowers small businesses, making her a distinctive voice in the digital landscape.

Final Notable Quote:

• [82:05] Keith Lee: "Why do you think people connect with your videos?"
• [82:18] Hoda Kotb: "It's about the stories and the people behind the restaurants."

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Note: This summary focuses solely on the interview content, excluding advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content segments as per the instructions.

Transcript

[Savannah Guthrie]

Hi everyone, It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Cotney from the Today Show.

[Hoda Kotb]

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[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Keith Lee]

International Inc. Y'all know who it is. It's your favorite unc and I'm riding around here in Vegas with my guy, Keith Lee. And he's the Internet's most popular and famous food critic. He was named one of Forbes 30 under 30 class member for 2024. A viral food and local restaurant review, charitable influencer and advocate for small businesses. One of the top digital content creators, social media superstar and sensation king of TikTok food community. He has over 19 million followers between TikTok and Instagram. A former mixed martial arts fighter, beloved father, husband and he's the People champ Keith Lee.

[Hoda Kotb]

God is amazing, man. I'm honored to be.

[Keith Lee]

I appreciate it, bro.

[Hoda Kotb]

All my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, wanna slice got to roll a dice that's why all I've been grinding all my life all my life Been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, won a slice, got the rolling dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life.

[Keith Lee]

I'm excited about this.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, you was intro and I said, who that? I don't know who that man is.

[Keith Lee]

But I appreciate this. This tour of Vegas and some of the local hot spots.

[Hoda Kotb]

Let's do it. Yeah. I'm excited.

[Keith Lee]

I'm super excited. What are the five best cities for food?

[Hoda Kotb]

Top five in order.

[Keith Lee]

You. You can put them in order if you like, or you can just give me your top five.

[Hoda Kotb]

My order personally?

[Keith Lee]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

New Orleans is number one.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

Houston is number two.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

Chicago is number three.

[Keith Lee]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

Toronto will be four.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right now I would go Miami. Yeah. If I had to think of where I would go back, I would go Miami for sure, man. But top three is solid. My top three is New Orleans, Houston, and Chicago. Wow. Solid.

[Keith Lee]

No, no Atlanta, no New York.

[Hoda Kotb]

So very specific reasons why I say that. Right?

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So for those that don't know, we. We go on food tour, but we go on food tour for people that look like us and people who come from the background that we come from. So we specifically do it for people that can jump on a plane that are foodies and just want to go try food.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

So I don't do it in a way where you can go call the biggest influencer in that city or the biggest celebrity and have them chauffeur you around and show you places. I do it specifically for people that literally just want to go try food. So we go to spots that are more on an unknown level, places that only locals know about. If you know, you know, kind of places that have great food, great customer service, but can need the marketing. But we also go to staples of the community to show respect to each city that we go to. So when I'm picking these places that are my top five is more on accessibility. Like, what's the easiest to jump on a plane and just go get some great food?

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I feel like New York isn't in that top five for me because the accessibility of to know the spots is really hard to find great spots unless you're from there.

[Keith Lee]

Correct.

[Hoda Kotb]

And if you do meet somebody that's from there, if y'all not super close, if you just meeting this person for the first time, they more than likely not going to give you the spots that they go to.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because one, they don't want the spots blown up, so they don't want everybody there. Two, they aren't a super welcoming group of people.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

They want you to be a tourist and that's it. But once you start venturing off of that and you start deepening it, digging into, like, local spots and spots they've been going to for years and spots they have nostalgia attached to, they don't want no parts of it.

[Keith Lee]

What's the best city to get pizza?

[Hoda Kotb]

New York got that. New York got that. That was one of the best things that we had when we was there was pizza. I'm from Detroit, so I like a deep dish. Thick, hearty.

[Keith Lee]

I tried, but I like deep dish.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, I'm a deep dish. I like the f. See, but that's because you from Atlanta.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Understood.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah. Now that I feel like.

[Hoda Kotb]

Are you born. Raised in Atlanta?

[Keith Lee]

I'm from South Georgia.

[Hoda Kotb]

Georgia. Understood. Understood.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah. But I see, like, when I get that deep dish, I feel like I'm eating a piece of cake or something.

[Hoda Kotb]

Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. See, now, if you. If you don't like a super thick, then I would say. But personally, like I said, I'm from Detroit, so I like a deep dish. I like the dough to be super high quality and to be the main focus.

[Keith Lee]

What about. What's the five most underrated cities?

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, you put me on a spot. Let's go there, Shannon. Top five, most, most underrated. I will go Detroit. I feel like not a lot of people know that Detroit has a food scene. Seattle, I feel like, is one of those places. Again, if, you know, you know, if you a true foodie, you know, Seattle has a great food scene. Baton Rouge. Baton Rouge is a place that is very specific now. Like, it's all right. It's black people, black people, country food. So if you are into country food, I'm talking about hog mall, neck ball.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Mothered, everything smothered and covered. Then Baton Rouge is definitely a underknown spot. Oh, Arizona. That's perfect. Arizona. I feel like Arizona is underrated. And the reason I say that is because you get a lot of healthy spots, but you also get very authentic. From my knowledge, authentic Southwestern, southwestern food even. They have a really big native population. So you get native food. And I've never been to a place that has native food.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

Milwaukee got a good food scene that's pretty underrated. Wow. Oh, Dallas. Dallas got a food scene that's definitely underrated.

[Keith Lee]

Really?

[Hoda Kotb]

For sure. It's hit or miss because it's a place that doesn't have much of a big food culture other than barbecue. Southern Texas roots. But as far as stepping into other cuisines and other ethnicities. Ethnicities, they don't really do it that much.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

So. But the barbecue alone carries.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Some of the best barbecue I ever had in my life.

[Keith Lee]

What about the worst? Where you go like, man, y'all, they be hyping this up and it ain't even like that, food wise. Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

New York, Atlanta. Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

So, you know, you going to start talking about Atlanta.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I just want you to know that's my whole experience.

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely. So for me, Atlanta. And I'm so happy you asking this. Atlanta had really good food. Atlanta had a good food scene. It's just you have to be somebody in order to get food. Do you have to name drop when you go to Atlanta and get food?

[Keith Lee]

Nah. Cause I really don't go. The places that I go to, they kind of know me. So when I like, I call, they're gonna take care of me, but I ain't.

[Hoda Kotb]

But do you feel like if they didn't know Shannon Sharp.

[Savannah Guthrie]

No.

[Keith Lee]

Hell no. I ain't getting in.

[Hoda Kotb]

And that's exactly why I say we do the food tour for people that really want to jump on a plane and just go get food. If we go to a place specifically, because I'm Keith Lee, and we go eat at the best restaurant and people want to jump on a plane and go try that spot, they're not going.

[Keith Lee]

To be able to get.

[Hoda Kotb]

They're not going to be able to get it. Not only the service, they're not going to be able to get the food.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

They going to go in there and they like, oh, we ain't got no bookings for the rest of the day. This. That third. But let Shannon Sharp walk in. We got six tables is wide open. We about to clean them right now. You get the fresh food. So that's one of the main categories of why we do what we do.

[Keith Lee]

So it's not so much the food, it's the service.

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely.

[Keith Lee]

In order to get the food. Are you surprised you got so much blowback for. When you critiqued Atlanta and you let them know that it's not so much the food, it's the service. If you're not somebody, you're not getting in. They're always crowded, they're always booked, and they only treat people of influence.

[Hoda Kotb]

Was I surprised? No. Because it's like ripping a band aid off of something that people didn't know was a scar. Right. If you from there and you was born and raised in that environment. You don't know no better. You think that that's what the food scene is and you think that's what culture is, right? Because that's part of Atlanta's culture.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

I just came from a perspective of somebody who wasn't from there and somebody was experiencing it for the first time, the death threats and whatnot. Was I surprised about that? Yeah. That was the first time I ever experienced something like that. People taking food that serious, oh, it's bad, it's real. Even in D.C. we got a death threat from a guy who, like, who's a rapper out there. And he talking about next time he come, instead of reviewing food, we gonna review his life or something like that. We just eating food, man. It's like my opinion isn't the end all, be all. I understand that everybody has a different opinion on food, and I always say that, but I get how the Internet gets too. And I don't blame them because people are prideful on where they come from, right? And people have a lot of love and nostalgia in the city that they come from and they feel personally attacked. And I want to make, put it on the record right now that when we go for the food tour is not to find what the best food is. It's specifically to highlight the restaurants that have great food, great customer service, but can eat marketing and don't get the marketing specifically because either they in a food desert to where a lot of people don't have access to the food that they, that they would need or want, or two, it's a location based place, or three, it's a place where the owners have put so much into the restaurant itself that they don't have the time or the money to market. Right? Because a lot of people who do food reviews, that's why I don't consider myself a food influencer or a food creator, any of that, because I don't charge restaurants anything.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

When I first started, people was telling me I could charge anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 per video for a restaurant. And I know people that do that, that charge more than way more than that. But I specifically do it for the restaurants and I don't charge them a dime. So that's what the food tour about is about. It's about marketing these places. And it's about going out and trying food that my mom can go in the next day and get the same experience that we got.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Look like old school whoopings can't sit on my ass.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, Atlanta had good brunch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Atlanta had good brunch, for sure. Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

You call hell getting in there for brunch.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I don't want that to be mistaken at all. Atlanta has.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, you're not saying they don't have good food.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, Atlanta has a good brunch.

[Keith Lee]

Anything you just said, the customer service.

[Hoda Kotb]

The way you like, the people in Atlanta. I love how many of us is out there. I love the wealth that's out there and the things that those kids that are from there are exposed to. When it comes to black wealth, when it comes to black excellence, when it comes to a community that's built around us for us, I never want that to be lost in translation when it comes to the Mecca of what we do. And the highlight of us is Atlanta. But at the same time, if you ain't got a certain status or a certain million followers, you better cook at.

[Keith Lee]

Home for the show or eat before you leave at home. Cause the wait will be a minute.

[Hoda Kotb]

A thousand percent.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, yeah. Do you try crazy foods?

[Hoda Kotb]

Have you tried crazy foods, which you consider crazy?

[Keith Lee]

I mean, I ate as a kid, I ate raccoon, I ate squirrel, ate rabbit, ate turtles.

[Hoda Kotb]

You country? Country. No, I try anything that I always say I'll try anything once.

[Keith Lee]

Right. So you try raccoon, possum.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, I'll try it once.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

What? I like it. I don't know.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

You eat what you. But how do you eat it? You eat like corn soup?

[Keith Lee]

No, no, no. You. You bake it.

[Hoda Kotb]

You put it in?

[Keith Lee]

Yeah. Put it. Yeah, you put it in the oven. You cut it up. Bell peppers, onions, celery. You put it in there.

[Hoda Kotb]

You a different kind of country, Shannon. I'm not going to lie to you and say I won't. Because again, I'm a foodie, so I get very interested in stuff. I'm the type to. My. My family be getting mad at me all the time.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm the type to walk into a random establishment and be like, oh, we was in Seattle and we walked by and we saw ducks hanging out the window.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

We walked in, got a duck. He cut head off right in front of us. And we went in the car, ate it. That was my first time ever doing something like that. But I'll do everything.

[Keith Lee]

You like duck.

[Hoda Kotb]

It was real good.

[Keith Lee]

This is good. I mean.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, it depends on where you get it from. A lot of times it can be gamey. It can be a little too overpowering and chewy in Texas, but the one we just had was super crispy. It was flavorful. It was fresh. It was juicy. Like I said, they took it right off the rack and cut it in front of us.

[Keith Lee]

You like quail? I like quail.

[Hoda Kotb]

I like quail.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. We just had a quail egg. The scotch from when we was in Seattle. It was like a scotch egg. It was wrapped and it was fried, but it was a quail egg that was wrapped in bacon and then fried again on the outside. It was good.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, but you need to eat, like, seven of them to get full.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, that's a fact. They like this bitch. I eat Shannon. Yeah. I'm an eating man. Yeah, for sure.

[Keith Lee]

I saw where you ate the sushi worm.

[Hoda Kotb]

Mm. I knew that was coming. So when we was in Seattle, we went to a place. It was a sushi spot. A bunch of people were recommended. It was a staple of the community, and it was out the door when we went. So we went just to show respect to the city and go to a place that was a staple. Okay. I did the full review, did the full video. I posted it two days later. Somebody tagged me in a clip of them slowing it down. And on one of the nigiris, there was a. What seemed to be something moving. I can't confirm it or not what it was. I'm not gonna say it's a worm, a parasite or anything. It was something that looked like it was moving, and I ate it. I had no idea what it was. I had no idea there was anything moving into. Somebody tagged me in that video.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

That whole thing spiraled into something else. Allegedly. I can't confirm or deny that this is specifically from the restaurant, but somebody was hospitalized a day after we left. And again, I can't confirm or not it was from that restaurant. And in my mind, if anybody did go to a restaurant that we did go to and they were sick in any way, I came and spoke, spoke up about it, because I want to send my heart and my support to that person.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

They say you like sushi. I love sushi. Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

I mean, I've never had it. I just like my food cooked. I just can't.

[Hoda Kotb]

You don't like none raw? No, I can't. I was about to say something. I'm going to leave it alone.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah. I'm a. I like sunfish raw, but not.

[Hoda Kotb]

Come on, machine.

[Keith Lee]

I know where you going. See?

[Hoda Kotb]

But yeah. No. So I. Again, I'm a foodie. I can't have shellfish, but I explore everything else other than shellfish.

[Keith Lee]

That restaurant got Closed down, though, right?

[Hoda Kotb]

From allegedly. From what I hear, they did put a statement out and said it was closed, but I believe it was closed because they are looking internally. The owners have reached out to me on a bunch of different occasions and I get the impression that they are just fine tuning things and getting things together, because I don't get the impression that they were malicious in any. Any fashion or that they were neglectful. I believe it just was a isolated incident. I feel like it was just an unfortunate incident that was put on the Internet. And I feel like anybody could have put on the Internet and it would have blew up in the same manner. It just so happened to be that we were the ones that. That posted it.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

But I truly believe that not only in my opinion, I even gave the sushi that had the alleged. Whatever it was. Moving on. I gave it like a 8.5. And that was the highest thing out of the entire thing, the entire what I was eating. Because in my opinion, it was delicious.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

I just believe that once they take a step back and really, like, see what. What it was, that could have been an issue that they'll be back better than. And I'm not opposed of going back. And that's where I was going.

[Keith Lee]

I was going to ask you, would you be open to going back and offering another review?

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely. I'm not opposed to going back if I'm welcomed, if it's not a review, if it's just having a conversation, if it's being back on opening day and bringing my family and showing my support and showing that. I mean it when I say I understand that as a business, it's a lot harder than just food itself. And I have nothing but respect and love for them and what they do.

[Keith Lee]

Keith, I went shopping yesterday for you. I know you be doing all these reviews and sometimes the food is really, really good and you want to take some of it home. So I went shopping for you at Amazon. I got you something.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's fire.

[Keith Lee]

Keep the leftover.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's fire. I appreciate you, man. Just being here with you was more than the gift.

[Keith Lee]

Appreciate you, man.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hard times. I was broke. Remember, Santo? 5 on 4 these days when the only thing that I know. All right, Shannon. This is where everything started, man. We was in here two years ago. We've been living here for like three or four years. This is where I had my babies at. This is where everything started for me as far as contracts for us fighting food reviews, starting at Paw Patrol Chair. Yeah. This is the Mecca for real.

[Keith Lee]

This is the beginning of Keith Lee as we know it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely. And then some. Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely.

[Keith Lee]

Being back here. What kind of memories come rushing back?

[Hoda Kotb]

Everything, man. This is insane to me. So literally from we moved here 2019 when me and my wife had no money coming in. For real, when I say no money. We were trying to figure out how to even survive down there. The rent was $1,000. We moved in, we had both our babies here. The pandemic happened here. All of the videos that you see online happened here. Me even starting on TikTok, because I always had bad social anxiety. So I never posted. I never, man, four years ago, you could never get me on camera, right? So, like, this is where everything. Me even getting comfortable to be on camera started. I don't know if you can feel it, but it's like, I'm getting goosebumps, bro. Like, I ain't been in here so long, I'm like, look, you can see. Yeah, I see you standing up, man. But, yeah, this mean everything to me.

[Keith Lee]

You mentioned that you started posting the TikTok videos to help with your stuttering, to help with your social anxiety, and also to help you, because in mma, you're gonna have to do interviews and so you could be more fluid in your conversation. How did. How did the TikTok. What made you think. Say, you know what? Let me get behind the camera. Let me just talk, build up some courage to do this. And then once I get in front of people, I should be able to.

[Hoda Kotb]

Do it sitting right here doing interviews. I was sitting, I had like a little table and I would sit doing MMA interviews and I would be so bad, it would literally mess up my entire week. Like from the point where like the second I gotta think about doing an interview to three or four days before the interview to the actual interview to a week after the interview, it literally would just like ruin me. I'd be sweating, I'd be nervous, I'd be clammy. So during the pandemic, we ain't really had nothing else to do. Like, we. Like I said she was pregnant. So my brother fought in Brazil, and the second he fought in Brazil, the pandemic started while I was out there.

[Keith Lee]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

So she called me. And so they don't really. They didn't really have the same news feed that they have out here. So when my wife called me, she like, everybody taking stuff off the shelves, they panicking, they grabbing stuff and they wearing masks. And that's. This is when it first started. So, you know, people wearing hazmat ass suits and all type. So she called me and she was panicking and I'm like, okay, as long as I can get back, then I'll be safe. But I was worried about getting back. And so by the time I got back, I was like, whatever we need to do to get this issue, like under wraps, even a little bit, I'm gonna start doing. And tick tock. At that point, it was either like you was made fun of for having it, or you people was like, bro, you missing out. Because this is where everybody. We in the house. So this is where everybody at. So I think it's one of those things where God don't make no mistakes. And my wife was telling me to do it, so I was like, I might as well try it.

[Keith Lee]

Seeing where you are now, seeing where you were then. What's going through your mind?

[Hoda Kotb]

Emotions, bro. Like, I'm trying not to cry. I ain't gonna lie to you. Yeah, it's surreal because I remember vividly having conversations about the exact moment that we in right now. Coming back and rejoicing and having like that like, I made it moment. And the fact that it's here, I don't even think it's. I think it's impossible to put into words, Right. I just can't wait for my kids to be able to watch this because I got a four year old a two year old and both of them are born in this house. So I just can't wait for them to watch this and let them know their daddy made it.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, you mentioned the MMA aspect of it. So how did sports help you get over your anxiety? Because you're around people all the time. I mean, it's kind of hard to play sports and not have a conversation, not be having interaction. So did it help or hurt you playing sports?

[Hoda Kotb]

I would say it kind of hurt me because the sports that I was playing, so I wrestled all from middle school to high school to my first year in college, and even my first year of college. Only reason I didn't wrestle all the way through is because I couldn't afford it, so I got kicked out. But I feel like the reason it hurt is because wrestling and MMA guys are very awkward anyway, and a lot of them go through a lot of eating disorders, they go through a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression. But it's not a thing that's spoke of in a sport. It's not a lot of people that come in the forefront and say it, because we MMA fighters, we like the modern day gladiators, we supposed to be the tough guys. So I think a lot of it is hidden. So for me, once I got into the real world and I got into a space where I wasn't around nothing but fighters or wrestlers, it made me feel like the outcast. I always kind of felt like the outcast, even in wrestling, but even more so when I was in normal society, because it's a different level. You gotta turn off when you fighting.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's a different level. You gotta turn off, you really fighting, you lock in. So it's something that I feel like a lot of people don't have to be able to switch on and switch off. So for me, it was hard to switch that off. Once I got into like a space where people looked at me more for doing cooking videos or more for doing food critic videos, and they looked at me for fighting because as, you know, as a professional athlete, you think that's all you gonna do for the rest of your life. So it was such a drastic change for me that I feel like fighting hurt a little bit because again, I didn't have that social interaction with people. All the social interaction with people I had was people that got kicked in the head for a living. So it like they talk different, they act different, they have a different mindset. So once I got into this space and I'm like You don't worry about getting punched in the face, but did.

[Keith Lee]

It because, like, as you mentioned, other fighters, they're kind of socially awkward, kind of like yourself. They have anxiety. They don't really care to be speaking on camera. Did it give you a certain level of comfort hanging around people that were kind of just like you? You guys had something in common subconsciously.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Because like I said, you don't really know what you don't know.

[Keith Lee]

Right?

[Hoda Kotb]

I didn't know because I don't really consider myself socially awkward. I consider myself a person who willfully exits from conversations and exit from social interactions. So again, it's something that you don't even realize until you get around other people and you, like, wait, y'all be sitting here talking to people. Like, you be mingling. Like, I never did that. Like that working. I don't do that.

[Keith Lee]

Are you naturally an introverted person?

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely. Yeah, 1,000%. I think a lot of it is trauma based. I had a very traumatic childhood, okay. My parents did the best that they could because my mom and dad were always super involved. I've just always been kind of like a quiet state of myself kind of person. And then when I didn't, and I tried to step out of that and tried to be like the life of the party and like the extrovert that would go out, party, drink, smoke, I always ended up in, like. I was always the one that was targeted for some reason, like, and I genuinely believe now in retrospect, it was because God was telling me that that's not for you and you trying to fit into something that don't belong for you. So I'm gonna make you an example and I'm gonna stick you on the forefront. And I felt like that was always the example for me.

[Keith Lee]

Being socially awkward as a child, having a speech impediment. I had one of the. I still have a lisp I talked with.

[Hoda Kotb]

Why you think I got a speech impedime? Where'd that come from?

[Keith Lee]

It seemed like you had a stuttering problem, correct?

[Hoda Kotb]

Kind of, yeah. Okay, we're gonna speech.

[Keith Lee]

I mean, you do realize stuttering is a speech impetuous.

[Hoda Kotb]

It wasn't necessarily stuttering. It was more or less of like trying to. I guess it's stuttering. Yeah, you got it. You got it.

[Keith Lee]

But the kids. The kids make fun of you and make you go deeper, deeper into being, into yourself and deeper, deeper. Introverted.

[Hoda Kotb]

No, I was. If anything, I was the bully. I ain't gonna lie to you, okay? I was a. I can Guess. Oh, I was an asshole, bro. Growing up as a kid, it wasn't no me getting bullied. It was more the opposite because I was always real small. So when I graduated high school, I was like 4. 11, maybe like 100. Who you bullying it for?

[Keith Lee]

11.

[Hoda Kotb]

Exactly. It was one of those things. It was. I got a. I had a little man complex, little man syndrome. So it was like the last thing you bother do is mess with me again and again. I wrestled all through high school, so I had that edge over a lot of people. But for the most part, I always was fighting. I was always arguing. I always had a problem with authority. So for me, I never again, I never really realized that I was this introvert or this super quiet person until I got into spaces where I would be around other extroverts, or I got in spaces where, like, say it was networking events or, like, people looked at me, something other than a fighter. So my older brother fought. He was in the UFC by the time I graduated high school. So I always was in his shadow. So for me, it was easy to be like, I'm just Kevin Lee's brother. Like, I don't really have to step out of that. So when all of this started taking off and like, I was Keith Lee, that's when everything, like, opened up for me. And I really saw, like, oh, you really got an issue. Like, you really can't do interviews. You really can't talk to another human being for more than five minutes without you sweating bullets and, like, literally, like, want to shut off and run in your room for the rest of the day? That didn't really start until, like I said, like, 2019. 2020. But as a kid. Yeah, you couldn't tell me nothing.

[Keith Lee]

So how was it a family time? Because you said, I mean, did you realize it? How is your family? Are they very talkative, that, you know, you guys sit around the television and carry on conversation or watch a program together? So how was it growing up with your brother? And, well, you said he was already in the ufc, so he's probably, what, five, six years older than you?

[Hoda Kotb]

Four years. So I got a brother that's four years older than me, a brother that's four years younger than me, and I got a sister that's seven years older than me.

[Keith Lee]

Okay, so how was your childhood? How was your, you know, you and your brothers, did y'all get along? Did you fight?

[Hoda Kotb]

No. So we definitely didn't get along.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

But for me, like I said, I was always, I feel like the black sheep. But I feel like me and my sister argue about that a lot. Cause she feel like she was a black sheep. But so my sister, she had godparents. So growing up, she was always with her godparents. And then it was me, my older brother, my younger brother, my older brother was a very smart kid. The kid who everybody like modeled after and everybody was like praising at all times. He always had like a 4.0 grade point average. He was in sports. He was light skinned, curly hair, pretty boy.

[Keith Lee]

You do light skin too.

[Hoda Kotb]

Way lighter than me.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And right. Typical B2K.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

Like super curly. When I was younger, I was always the darkest out of everybody in my family. So. And I like, I was small. The main thing about me as a kid, I always either hurt myself or I always like ended up in a situation to where I was the center of attention but for the wrong reasons. Self hurt yourself or I was clumsy. So my head was the same size it is now. I was just 411, so it's like my neck wasn't strong enough to carry. I got scars all back here. I got a scar on my forehead. You see here?

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, I see.

[Hoda Kotb]

I got scars all in here. When I say, like that was a normal thing for us to have a family function and us to end up in an emergency room because Keith didn't bust his head open, had staples. That's happened to me at least I would say six, seven different times, seven different occasions. And for me, like I said childhood wise, it was more or less of like I was always trying to figure out where I belonged and why I belonged, where I belonged. And I never could really like figure it out. So I was always longing for attention. So I always had a problem with authority. And I would make it known that I had a problem with authority. So I was always the one getting suspended. I was always the one getting kicked out of school. I got kicked out of five or six different schools. I got expelled. When I say kicked out, I mean expelled from the whole school district. So yeah, it was, it was like that.

[Keith Lee]

Did you have a problem with, you know, parents are authoritative figures. Did you have a problem with your parents?

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely. Yeah. Me and my dad used to get into all the time to the point where I moved out when I was 16 and with my God brother. And then when I moved back in, we ended up moving here. And then when I met my wife, I met my wife when I was 18. I was homeless at the time. Let me tell it. I ran away from home and we.

[Keith Lee]

Sleeping in My car. You had a place?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, I had a place. I just wasn't staying. She'll tell you, I literally was sleeping in my car. And I never told her this until maybe like last year. I would like, so I was working as a lifeguard. I would drive to work and I had like a 2000 Nissan Maximum Super Bucket. I used to drive to work in it. And then as soon as I would get off of work, I would text her and be like, hey, I'm on my way over to you. Little does she know, I'm already sitting in a parking lot and I've been sleeping there for three days. And I'm literally like on the phone with my cousin, with my sister and telling them, like, what's going on? And she think I'm getting off of work. But whole time I've been sleeping in the parking lot. I walk upstairs, take a shower, get some food, be like, oh, I'm headed back to work just because I didn't want to be embarrassed, walk back downstairs and sleep back packing my car.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. So that was happening for maybe like, what, a month? Maybe. Yeah, maybe like a month. So my relationship with my parents have always been very rocky, but I take a lot of credit for it because my dad always tried the best that he possibly could. When he would come home, it would be like, either you going to do what I say or that's it. No other ifs, ands, or buts. I grew up in an old school household, so it was different for me because I've always been a big communicator. So you either got to explain to me why I'm doing what I'm doing or I'm not doing it.

[Keith Lee]

No, no, no, no.

[Hoda Kotb]

Old school.

[Keith Lee]

Don't explain nothing. Exactly.

[Hoda Kotb]

Don't explain that' I'm the king of the household, she the queen, and you listen to everything we say. And that always was a problem for me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Hoda Kotb]

We have one more act for you this evening. I don't even need to say his name. Mr. Bob Dylan.

[Keith Lee]

From the director of Walk the line at Ford vs Ferrari.

[Hoda Kotb]

If anyone is going to hold your attention on stage, you have to kind of be a freak.

[Keith Lee]

And starring Timothee Chalamet as Bob Dylan.

[Hoda Kotb]

Are you a freak? Hope so. Once upon a time you just so.

[Keith Lee]

Inspired by the true story. I want to know which side he's on this Christmas.

[Hoda Kotb]

They just want me singing blowing in the wind for the rest of my life. Bobby, what do you want to be? Whatever it is they don't want me to be. How does it feel?

[Keith Lee]

He defied everyone.

[Hoda Kotb]

Turn it down. Pay loud.

[Keith Lee]

To change everything. Aaron Elvis with no direction Timothy Chalamet Edward Norton El Fanny Monica Barbaro make.

[Hoda Kotb]

Some noise BD Track some mud on a carpet.

[Keith Lee]

A complete unknown Only theater's Christmas day rated R under 1790 minute without parent did your brother and sister have those same problems with your father? Or they just like okay, no, it just legit.

[Savannah Guthrie]

It was me again.

[Hoda Kotb]

But so it trickled down from me to my younger brother. So my younger brother and I was in prison and I believe a lot of it. No, it's okay. He horrible. He was Bad for you to say, considering that he was bad. It trickled down from me to him. Okay. But I think a lot of times it was more or less of, like I said, just a communication issue. So my sister, like I said, she was with my godparents. So by the time a lot of the traumatic stuff happened for me, she was already in Chicago where she went to school at. And then my older brother, he was already in college. So quick story. When I was in 11th grade, my brother had, like I said, he was four years older than me. So he had graduated already. He was in college. We were living in. So I'm originally from Detroit. So we were living in Detroit on 7 Mile Auto Drive and we had. My dad bought us a chopper bike. He bought my little brother. Chopper bike. You know what a chopper bike is? It's like one of the bikes had the real big tire on the front and then a real fat tire on the back. Yeah, he bought my little brother one of those. And he was riding around the neighborhood acting like he was a. And it was a group of kids across the street. Obviously they didn't like it. Again, we still in the inner city of Detroit. So one day they stole his bike. We end up going to get it back and we put it back in the garage. One of the little boys from across the street came while we asleep. It was just me, my mom, me, my mom and my little brother. My dad was at work. He came in the garage while we asleep and I saw him. Nobody else saw him. So I walked outside and confronted him. He went to go take the bike anyway. I punched him in the face. He ran downstairs, told his brothers, told all of his cousins and whatnot. I go back in the house, not thinking nothing of it. Maybe five minutes later. All you hear is like, it sound like a war, war starting outside. All you hear is like people screaming and yelling. I go peek through the window. No exaggeration. It's probably 30 people and they all running down the street and they taking their shirts off. You already know what that mean, they taking their shirts off, screaming, it's over with. It ain't even nothing you can say at this point. So they full blown coming down the street. I go to close the window, acting like if they don't see me, then they go the opposite direction. Before you know it, there's a brick that comes through the front window and it shattered all the glass. We had a glass that like was in a. Like. So the front door was here and then a glass was here. It literally shattered through the living room. So now it's a big brick in my living room. My mom come downstairs, and she panicking. She go to open the door. They rush the door. They completely, like, try and take me outside. I end up getting jumped. They end up hitting my mama. They hit my little brother. But when this happened, of course, you know, my dad get a call. I handle my own. I like to think I still got jumped. So I go in the house, I call my dad, tell him my brother ends up driving down because he went to school in Grand Valley, which maybe like an hour, hour and a half, he ended up driving down. Well, I'm a kid, so I don't know how far it feels, but it felt like it was probably like an hour. But he drive back, he pull up, my dad get a gun. Long story short, he go down, do whatever he was supposed to do at the house. According to court documents, he went down and did whatever they said he did. And the next morning, your older brother or your dad? My dad.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

So the next morning, my dad's in jail. We still staying at the house. Maybe a week later, we get an eviction notice. They come. My brother went back to school by this point, so it's literally just me, my mom, my little brother. We hear my dad gone, we get an eviction notice. They come and tell us, like, hey, you got two or three days to get out. And we throwing everything on the curb. My mom's best friend used to live, like, on the opposite side of the block, but she had a house that she had just moved out of. And it was one of those situations, like how I was telling you here how when we moved out, we just didn't tell the landlord that we moved out. So the landlord still thinking we there, but at this point, we squatting, basically. So we get evicted, we move over to that house, we squatting. And it was one of the darkest times of my life. And I'm telling you, I'm at this point of, like, not understanding really, but, like, fully, like, what am I doing? My mom, she has no money. At this point, we eating checkers. Shout out to checkers, because at this point, I want a sponsorship. We eating checkers box, and they had a popcorn chicken box. And it was like popcorn chicken and fries, and you get it for, like, $2. And we all get one a day, and that's always eating. So that again, my older brother wasn't there, my older sister wasn't there. It was just me and my younger brother that had to go through that. And it was one of those things where I feel like that really molded me as a person of who I am. So that's probably why I act the way I act a little bit now as an adult. I feel like I've learned from a lot of it, and being in this house is really, like, reminding me of why I'm exactly where I'm at and where I'm supposed to be at.

[Keith Lee]

Did that experience.

[Hoda Kotb]

You about to choke me up? Come on, man.

[Keith Lee]

That experience that you went through, did that have anything to do say, you know what? I'm going to the mma. I got jumped. I'm gonna be. Cause you say you handle your own, but, I mean, you can only do so much with this. 10. 5.

[Hoda Kotb]

10. Yeah. Not necessarily. I feel like the main reason why I end up fighting is because I got kicked out of school, I got kicked out of college. Well, I couldn't afford it. And they basically was like, either you give us $25,000 by tomorrow or the next day after that, or you gotta leave. So I came back home to Vegas, and my brother, he saw me on the couch and he saw I was depressed, and I didn't know what I was about to do, and he was like, bro, come to the gym with me. And he took me to the gym, and I never turned back. Wow.

[Keith Lee]

So what. What did MMA give you? What is. What does MMA do for Keith Lee?

[Hoda Kotb]

Hard work. It gave me a lot of, like, resilience, and I feel like that's exactly what I take into this profession that I'm in now. I feel like my work ethic is, bar none. I honestly don't. That's. That's why I don't compare myself to nobody. And I don't consider myself an influencer. I just consider myself Keith. And I feel like the reason I do that is because, not to sound cocky or sound like an asshole, but I'm him, Shannon. I'm one of them. I ain't gonna lie to you. I take a lot of credit, and I give it to my wife, and I give it to my kids, and I give it to my sister. And the people in our family. We some dogs, bro. When I tell you, like, it might look like we just eating food, but even this last week, we've been in four different states thugging it out the sprinter van. And a lot of this we do with our own money, we do with our own time. And before you know it, we look up and we on food tour, and we've been outside in a sprinter van for nine hours. A day. And I feel like a lot of that is attested to my MMA background, because, again, it's a different switch you gotta turn on in order to really, like, lock everything out and just do what you feel like you called to do. And that's what I feel like I take into food and anything.

[Keith Lee]

You had an 8 and 5 record in MMA. You won three by knockout, one by submission, and four by decision. What's the hardest part about MMA? I mean, you know, look, there is everything, I mean, to back fist and kick you and hit your elbow you and choke you out.

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely.

[Keith Lee]

Really? People ain't really trying to go to the cards.

[Hoda Kotb]

No.

[Keith Lee]

If you try to be in the ufc, Dana won't action.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's a fact.

[Keith Lee]

He won't action. So if you go get a couple of decision, Dana go like, nah, you're not for the ufc. So what is the hard. What is the hardest part about mma?

[Hoda Kotb]

I can't speak for nobody else, but I feel like the reason why my record looked the way it did is because I, again, I had a brother that was already in it, so I didn't have the slow roll. I. If you go back and watch and see who I fought, I was jumping into the deep end immediately. Like, my first three fights was in Canada. Most people don't fight internationally until they get to their 10th, 15th pro fight. I was outside immediately. So the hardest part for me was fighting guys that were out of my experience level and not really having anybody to be like, relax, bro, you ain't gotta rush it. I was 18, fighting guys that had kids and wives and real life struggles. So for me, I felt like that was the hardest part, but physically the hardest part. I feel like if you were to beat me, it was pressure. It was guys that was coming forward nonstop, had nothing to lose, was willing to get knocked out. I always was a person who valued my feet, my footwork. So I'm moving. I don't wanna get hit. I don't like getting punched. I got a pretty face. Shannon, I wanna keep this. It was a guys who care, bro. Yeah, it was guys who didn't give a damn. But, yeah, once I. I didn't even really officially retire. My wife want me to officially retire, but. But everything kind of just took off in like, the end of 2022 and in like, December. I fought in September 2022. So right after that last fight, everything kind of took off. But I feel like, yeah, the hardest part was just like. And it's relinquishing. It's like you. You have no control over what's about to happen. You just gotta let it happen. And that's the hardest part for me. It's like just getting into that mindset of, like, God, I trust you, and I know whatever's about to happen is about to happen. And it ain't nothing that I'm about to do. I can train for eight weeks straight. The hardest training camp to be the most prepared, Train with the world champions, train with everybody who they claim is the best. You go out there and get finished in 20 seconds. So it ain't really nothing you can do about it other than just let it be what it is.

[Keith Lee]

You said you had a wrestling background, so clearly you're good at grappling. You try to take people down, get them off their feet. You didn't want to, like you said, you didn't want to get punched in the face. Or the best way not to get punched in the face is get them on the mat.

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely.

[Keith Lee]

And do what you need to do. So that was what you tried to do.

[Hoda Kotb]

I was a hybrid, so I mix it up really well, in my opinion. I came in an era where people was doing everything, so there was no more just grapplers or just strikers. There's very rare cases of it. And like, somebody like Khabib, where he's a straight grappler, I came in, like, on the tail end. So, like I said, I turned professional in 2015 when I was 18 or 2014. So that was when literally you had to do everything. People on a grassroots level or like the amateur length ranks, they was literally, like, switching stances already. Stuff that most people don't do until, like I said, 2025 pro fight. They was fighting at 19, 18, grappling, striking. So I like to consider myself part of that generation.

[Keith Lee]

What does it feel like to knock someone out and what does it feel like to get knocked out?

[Hoda Kotb]

So I've never been knocked out. I've been finished once in my entire career, and that was me being choked out.

[Keith Lee]

Rear naked triangle.

[Hoda Kotb]

Rear naked. Okay, so that was probably in that. And I feel like I love that you even brought that up. That fight right there was literally what made my life begin to where it's at right now. So I was in his house when it happened too, by the way. That's crazy. I was here when it happened. So I just had a contract with Bellator, which is the second biggest promotion in the world when it comes to mma. I was two in one in a promotion. I had just beat the number seventh ranked guy And a number eighth ranked guy. And I had just lost to the number one ranked guy. So I'm thinking in my head like, oh, it's just a bounce back fight. I'm fighting this guy that's like seven, zero. I'm like, oh, this is going to put me right back into top contention because they had a tournament coming up at 135 to where the top eight guys fought for a million dollars. So the winner between me and the guy I fought that was 7, 0 went into the tournament. So I'm thinking like, mind you, I just bought, I just fought number seven, number eight. This guy was, I think he was ranked number 12th at the time. I'm real cocky, Shayna. I'm like, oh, it's over with. Like I'm already coming home. And I'm telling her like what spot money spent man. What, I'm telling her what spot of the tournament I got. I'm telling her exactly what we about to do with the money. I'm taking the camp serious. But I already, I'm going into it with that mindset of like, oh, it's over with. I get smoked. I'm talking about whooped on first time in my entire career. So at, at 8 and 5, I only had my four losses were by split decision and split decisions to where like it could literally go like this, like razor thin. That was the only time where I got shut out and I got finished in the first round. He was, when I say jab, everything was landing. I was looking up like, how many people in here? I'm looking at his coaches like, why you gonna let him jump over the top and come punch me in the face? Yeah, it's bad, bro. I look up, before you know it, he got my back, back. And it's maybe like 10 seconds left of the clock. And I could hear. So they do a smacker for the last 10 seconds. So I can hear the 10 second smacker. And you can see on my face in the video that I'm. He, I'm still there. He got the choke, but I'm like, I'm all right. I'm still scrambling. Before you know it, I go to lift up, I get up and I run to the cage. I don't know, I've been out for like three seconds. Wow. And he looking at me out. You can go watch the video. I'm all completely bloodied up in my head. I didn't go out at all in my head. I'm like, oh, this choke not even in. Oh, let me get Up. Oh, I hear that the time is over. Let me get up and run to my corner. Literally, you know, I'm out. I wake up, my head snap back, I stand up and I stumble all the way over to the corner. And the ref, he picked me up and he like, it's over with. You can see in the video, I'm like, why? What happened? I was out, gone. It felt like a movie. Like, it felt like. It's such a weird feeling because you still hear everything, you still feel everything. Like you feel like you watching somebody else. Like, I felt like I was standing over myself and being like, oh, the joke. Not even in, but the whole time I'm like, calm. So for me, that felt like. Like I said, it felt like a movie. But putting somebody else to sleep, that's one of the most amazing feelings. That's why I say it's a switch. You, you, it's. You got to be a little crazy, right? You got to be a little off to say it feel good to put somebody to sleep. But when you. Any heated moment, I feel like it's one of those, like vindicate moments. Because the second for anybody who's never fought before, the second that, you know, you won everything from. So it's usually like an eight week process that goes into fighting and that's from cutting weight, that's from eating right, that's from making sure that you running in the morning.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah. No sex. None of that.

[Hoda Kotb]

None of that. I'm talking about like full blown militant. So the second that the fight is over, it could be from you finishing putting a guy to sleep. Everything comes crashing and you just feel like, oh, I can breathe now. Like, so it's literally like when people say, like it's a monkey on your back, that's no joke. Like, you know, winning like the Super Bowl. So that's exactly what it feel like. Every fight is like somebody lifting somebody off your shoulders.

[Keith Lee]

Right?

[Hoda Kotb]

So it's like literally the second the fight is over, you just go, oh.

[Keith Lee]

And then it showed that all that hard work did eight weeks, all of it paid off.

[Hoda Kotb]

Absolutely, absolutely. It's one of the best feelings in the world.

[Keith Lee]

What about a return? Are you interested in returning to the Octagon?

[Hoda Kotb]

It gotta be a lot of money involved, Shana. A lot of money. I got kids, man. And the main reason I even stopped training, like I said, there was never a official retirement. The main reason I even stopped is because you either gotta do it or you're not gonna do it at all.

[Keith Lee]

Oh, yes. All in.

[Hoda Kotb]

It Ain't no plan. It ain't no. Like, oh, I'm about to go on a food tour. I'm about to go drive around the city, and I'm about to go eat, and then I'm a train. Ain't none of that.

[Keith Lee]

No.

[Hoda Kotb]

I train with one of the best guys in the world. His name is Dewey Cooper. He trained Francis Ngannou. He's got like four or five different championships in the UFC alone. He a bad man. So it would playing with him, it wouldn't know, like, oh, I'm about to come in. I'm a celebrity. Ain't none of that, man. Go get on the bag. So for me, it was either you gonna do it or you're not gonna do it at all. So that's probably the main decision. When I come back, I'm looking at my wife right now, and that's a no.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, she's over.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's over with. Yeah. For sure.

[Keith Lee]

So have you ever met Dana?

[Hoda Kotb]

I've met him, like in passion.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because I. My brother fought for 10 years, but I never had like a full blown conversation.

[Keith Lee]

So do you still train? Like.

[Hoda Kotb]

No, sir. You see me in this chair. I'm spreading out in this chair.

[Keith Lee]

So there. There's. I mean, do you still work out?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, I play basketball.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

So that's it? No. No. No training? No math? No glove work? No.

[Hoda Kotb]

So I'm blessed enough to say I got a lot of contracts right now, and all of those contracts says that I can't have any blemishes on my face. Right. So if I go train from just scar tissue from doing it for so long, my face is automatically either gonna swell up or it's gonna open up or it's gonna get cut real easy. And that messed up the money. I can't mess up the money.

[Keith Lee]

Don't mess up the money.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

We just saw the fight this weekend. Jon Jones took out Stipe. Now he's the heavyweight champ. He also took the belt from zero gane.

[Hoda Kotb]

I hate that whole conversation. We can talk about it. I hate that whole conversation.

[Keith Lee]

So you hate the conversation of Goat?

[Hoda Kotb]

I hate the conversation of him ducking from Tom.

[Keith Lee]

Oh, no, I don't.

[Hoda Kotb]

I hate it, bro. Now we talking. Cause I like to consider myself an mma. What's the nerd?

[Keith Lee]

Aficionado.

[Hoda Kotb]

Aficionado. All of that.

[Keith Lee]

Okay, tell us about what you think about Bones.

[Hoda Kotb]

I don't even think it's a conversation or it's a question that he's the best that we've ever Seen do it by far. I hate the conversation of, like, he ducking time. We did this maybe like a year ago with Sergey Pavovlas. That's how you say his last name. Excuse me if I pronounce it wrong, but when he was coming through the ranks and he was killing people, everybody was like, oh, he gotta fight Jones. And Jones scared of him. And then he got finished by Tom, and don't nobody talk about him no more, right? It's like, don't nobody pay him no attention. But it's like. It's very annoying to see somebody, especially somebody that looked like us, be in a space where it's like every single time you do something, it's something else that gotta be done in order for you to submit your legacy. It's like, he been doing this since I was a kid. Yes, he been doing it well.

[Keith Lee]

He's been the champ since 2011.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's insane. Yeah, that's insane. And he hasn't lost to anybody. No. If he was anybody else, it wouldn't even be a question. It wouldn't even be a conversation. Because when Khabib beat. That was Gaethje. His last fight, when Khabib beat Gaethje, there wasn't a question of, oh, he gotta come back and he gotta fight Ilya to submit his legacy or he gotta come back. He gotta fight Volk to submit his legacy or he gotta come back and he gotta fight Holloway. It wasn't none of that. It wasn't even a. Like, even. There's no conversation as we speak revolving around his legacy, his greatness. But with Jones, he gotta beat everybody and they mama in order to get any kind of recognition.

[Keith Lee]

And then when he beats Aspinall, they're gonna come up with something. Smoke Aspinall, they will come up with somebody else. Well, he gotta wait till.

[Hoda Kotb]

There's always gonna be something else. Yeah, always gonna be something that's. And even if he don't beat Aspinall, because it's the fight world, anything can happen. I don't think that takes away from the greatness that is Jon Jones. And that always will be Jon Jones.

[Keith Lee]

To have that type of reign for a decade and a half.

[Hoda Kotb]

I don't think Tom doing that. I ain't gonna lie. He might. Again, everything happens the way it's supposed to. But I feel like it's a little. A little too late because. Again, Joan, what time is 27:31, I think.

[Keith Lee]

I think he's seven years younger than me.

[Hoda Kotb]

I think that. I think that. I think the conversation's over with that alone. Alone, even just his age.

[Keith Lee]

Are you a boxing fan?

[Hoda Kotb]

Every now and again I watch. Yeah. I predicted Tank and Garcia in front of Tank, literally, the punch, the round, and exactly how it's about to go.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

Cause again, I'm him. Shannon.

[Keith Lee]

So who do you want to see Tank fight? People say they want to see a rematch. They want to see Tank fight Shakur. They want to see him fight Boots. So who would you like to see Tank fight?

[Hoda Kotb]

That's a great question. I feel like there's so many options, but at the same time, I think a lot of people feel like he hasn't been tested yet because we are in his era of protect the O, but just from seeing him up close and watching him. So I trained at Mayweather's for years, so just seeing him up close, I feel like I'm about to sound like a tape recorder with anybody that's in his camp. Tank him, bro. Take one of them. So I don't care who you fight. I feel like he is our generation's best. And I feel like at the end of the day, when the smoke is clear, he gonna come out of, like, really being one of them. One of them.

[Keith Lee]

Were you on the celebrity boxing? We just saw Jake Paul fight tyson. We saw McGregor fight.

[Hoda Kotb]

I hated that fight. I hated everything about that fight.

[Keith Lee]

What did you hate about it? Do you think it was staged? Do you think what happened?

[Hoda Kotb]

First to the lead up, I told my wife that I can't be there because I was gonna jump in the ring. I was wondering. It's Tyson, bro, right? He's a legend of the sport. He's a legend of our community. He is somebody who should be held to the highest regard. I don't like that there was like this conversation of, like, competitiveness. He's 60, bro. Like, if we bring up any legend of any other race or demographic, there's no way that you touch him. One of their legends. But we allow our legends to get in there and no, he allowed that mockery. I agree with you. I agree with you. But us as fans still was having conversations around the fight itself, like it was about to be a competitive or back and forth fight.

[Keith Lee]

I mean, Keith, if what they're saying is true, the man made 20 mil. I mean, can you.

[Hoda Kotb]

I hear you, I hear you. But is it.

[Keith Lee]

And his money jump for it. Now you gotta realize here's a guy that's made what, five, six, $700 million, and I'm not so sure he has half of that I'm not so sure he has a third of that.

[Hoda Kotb]

I hear you.

[Keith Lee]

And so $20 million at the age of 58.

[Hoda Kotb]

But you, Mike Tyson, the money gonna come and go, right?

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

He's had way more than 20 million before, for sure. So in my mind is. I know he. I watch Tyson very religiously, and I know he don't believe in legacy, but for me, it's not necessarily him. It's the kids that's below him. It's my kids, it's me. It's somebody who's watched him literally from the beginning. So to stand on integrity, this is one thing that I always preach to my kids. To stand on something that you can. That would last forever and that you can pass on to another generation. And that's as far as integrity, and that's as far as something that you. A code that you stand behind to stand on that is way more valuable than any amount of money. Yeah, for me.

[Keith Lee]

So would you do a celebrity boxing match?

[Hoda Kotb]

Maybe. Maybe.

[Keith Lee]

See?

[Hoda Kotb]

Maybe. But for me, you say the money.

[Keith Lee]

Has to be right. So they got 5 million for me.

[Hoda Kotb]

So money wise, it would specifically be for professional fighting. That's where I say the money gotta be right. Because again, my life isn't in.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, no, this is celebrity.

[Hoda Kotb]

But celebrity, the money don't necessarily gotta be right. It gotta be the right one. It gotta be the right fight. For me, I wouldn't fight necessarily a celebrity. Cause I feel like it would erase what I've done for 10 years in a space. Gotcha. It would really just be to go out there and have fun, but still be competitive. So it had to be that middle ground of being competitive and still not getting cuts out by my wife because I'm getting cut and stuff.

[Keith Lee]

Is there any way we could do a celebrity MMA fight fight?

[Hoda Kotb]

Maybe we can be the first of the kind. Who you want to see me fight, Shannon?

[Keith Lee]

I don't know who I like. You say you weighed. You. You fought at 135.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm not that at all right now. 155, big boy. No, I'm solid.

[Keith Lee]

160. You're not more than 160, though.

[Hoda Kotb]

Way more than 160.

[Keith Lee]

No. Come on, Keith.

[Hoda Kotb]

Way more.

[Keith Lee]

Come on, Keith.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm solid, bro. I'm built like a brick house.

[Keith Lee]

Okay, 163. 163.

[Hoda Kotb]

Not even close.

[Keith Lee]

What you trying to say? You not 190, Keith.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm like 180. 183. Solid.

[Keith Lee]

I'm thinking 68. Ish.

[Hoda Kotb]

Feel that, Shannon? Solid.

[Keith Lee]

Like 170. Give 170.

[Hoda Kotb]

So one thing I know.

[Keith Lee]

When you kept asking Shannon who he wanted, who would he want to see you fight? If he threw out Jake Paul, what would your video response.

[Hoda Kotb]

Make that money, man. Don't make that money, man. I completely. I didn't even. Yeah, go ahead, talk that.

[Keith Lee]

Let me do it like this. Last year, my co host, we were talking about. You had. You was critiquing a restaurant and. And Ocho said something. You responded. And we were asking. We were talking earlier about a celebrity boxing match. We asked, would you fight Jake Paul? And you said you would like a celebrity boxing match.

[Hoda Kotb]

Now, if I'm gonna do anybody, let's go check. Come on, Ocho. Ocho one. Ocho was talking hot. He was talking crazy. Ocho was talking on a different level. But we've had a conversation since.

[Keith Lee]

Oh, you talked to Ocho?

[Hoda Kotb]

Mm. I talked to Ocho again. I come from a place of love, man. I come from a place of transparency. We had a conversation. Chad didn't mean no harm, but if you want to put the gloves on, we can put the gloves on. I ain't gonna lie. I whoop Chad ass. All right, I take Ojo down through there. And again, that's coming from a place of love. I'll take Ojo down through there.

[Keith Lee]

Oh, he say he got the sides over.

[Hoda Kotb]

I take Ojo down through there. All right. And I feel like we'd sell out a. We'd sell out a big one for that. Ocho down three.

[Keith Lee]

We can make this happen, Ocho.

[Hoda Kotb]

What, he 191? Yeah, one like 185. 190.

[Keith Lee]

185. 190.

[Hoda Kotb]

How tall is he? Six, six, one. Six?

[Keith Lee]

Yeah, he about six, six, one. Six and a half.

[Hoda Kotb]

You gotta be too something to do something around here.

[Keith Lee]

What?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, you got it. I ain't gonna lie. Non professional. It's different because, again, I was fighting at one of the highest levels that you can fight at with non professional one. Anything under 200. Can't do nothing with me, Ocho.

[Keith Lee]

Now you say you want that smoke. You been calling out Andre Ward and all these. Keith Lee said he got the hand for you. He said he updated too.

[Hoda Kotb]

It'd be crazy too.

[Keith Lee]

And registered in 10 different states.

[Hoda Kotb]

And we gonna hug each other and pray afterwards. Gosh, it's amazing.

[Keith Lee]

You mentioned you were in Bellator when they didn't renew you or they released you. What was going through your mind then?

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my life was over with in my mind. I came back in this very house and had no, when I say no idea. My wife was pregnant with our second child. I had a two year old. The rent here was $1,000. I had no idea how I was about to pay that. I literally vividly remember sitting in this very chair in this very spot. I swear to you, I went to it. This is when food reviews actually started for me. Because before then, I was just cooking in this kitchen and I would cook four times a day for her when she was pregnant, and I would just record myself every time I was cooking. And when after that fight, I was curled up in a ball in that bed, God damn, I'm about to cry. I was curled up in a bar and I remember her coming over the top of me and being like, everything is going to be okay. It was so hard for me to see because I'm staring at my 2 year old, I'm staring at her belly. I know sense of what's about to happen. I thought that food reviews could do something or I thought I wouldn't even say. I'm lying to myself. I had no idea what food reviews were gonna do.

[Keith Lee]

You definitely didn't think it would take off like this.

[Hoda Kotb]

Never in a million years. I just vividly remember having a conversation with her and she telling me I was gonna be okay. And she was rubbing my back. I stood up and I was like, I'm about to make something happen. I'm about to go do something. I don't know what it is, but whatever is calling me, whatever that voice is telling me to do, I'm about to do it. And I've listened to it before. And I'm in a position where I'm losing contracts. And when I say lost a contract, channel that contract was worth. I think I had like $100,000 up on contract. That's money.

[Keith Lee]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm like, oh, bro. I was like, just, all right, I ain't got to fight. Just give me $1,000 in my mind. But God, willingly. Maybe six months after all that had happened and like I was sending each other, I started doing full reviews. Wingstop reached out to me and they gave me a contract that was worth the exact same amount that that contract was worth for Bellator.

[Keith Lee]

Wow.

[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Now we have one more act for you this evening. I don't even need to say his name.

[Keith Lee]

Mr. Bob Dylan from the director of Walk the Line and Ford versus Ferrari.

[Hoda Kotb]

If anyone is going to hold your attention on stage, you have to kind of be a freak.

[Keith Lee]

And starring Timothy Chalamet as Bob Dylan.

[Hoda Kotb]

Are you a freak? Hope so. Once upon a time you just so.

[Keith Lee]

Inspired by the true story. I want to know which side he's on this Christmas.

[Hoda Kotb]

They just want me singing blowing in the wind for the rest of my life. Bobby, what do you want to be? Whatever it is they don't want.

[Keith Lee]

He defied everyone.

[Hoda Kotb]

Turn it down.

[Keith Lee]

To change everything.

[Hoda Kotb]

These are Elvis with no Direction Timothy.

[Keith Lee]

Chalamet Edward Norton El Fanny Monica Barbaro.

[Hoda Kotb]

Make some noise BD Track some mud on the carpet.

[Keith Lee]

A complete unknown Only theater's Christmas Day rated R under 1790.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Keith Lee]

You had jobs. You did a delivery for postmates doordash. Were you good delivery guy? You get good tips. You ain't biting up them people food.

[Hoda Kotb]

No, no.

[Keith Lee]

Man, you just eat them people.

[Hoda Kotb]

Is no, my little brother was. That's my little brother. That's why I said he in prison. But no, for me, I feel like I was. But I had so much going on at the time. I was sharing a car with my wife. So my daily schedule was I would go to the. I would wake up, I would go drop her off in the morning. She had to be at work at what, 9:00? She had to be at work at 9. I would drop her off. I would go do three or four deliveries that took maybe like an hour. I would go straight to the gym after that, I would train for maybe two hours, lead the gym. I'm talking about sweating, smelling like everything.

[Keith Lee]

Smelling like, get back on all of.

[Hoda Kotb]

That, get in the car, go do more deliveries. That's why I say I can't really say I'm a good delivery driver. Because if a delivery driver pull up and he smell like a Hyzer smell. Yeah, he probably not getting a tip.

[Keith Lee]

I don't even want food now.

[Hoda Kotb]

But I was grinding, bro. I literally would leave there, do four or five deliveries, go to the next gym session after that, do two or three, go pick her up from work, take her with me to do a few more to get money for dinner. And then after dinner, I would like try and recover the best I could and do it again tomorrow. So was I a good delivery driver? I was a delivery driver that did what he had to do, right? Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

Did you get good tips?

[Hoda Kotb]

Maybe a little bit, but.

[Keith Lee]

So you mentioned that when things were transpiring, you would cook. You were cooking for your wife. Are you a good cook?

[Hoda Kotb]

Mm, I thought I was.

[Keith Lee]

How did you. How did you learn from watching your mom? How did you learn how to cook? Or was out of. Was it out of necessity?

[Hoda Kotb]

I've always been a study of the game, so I've always, again, I've always been a professional in the sense of no matter what I do, I take it extremely serious. Okay. So when I was cutting weight, you can ask my coach this. When I was cutting weight, I would be watching a Food Network. And that's me not eating no, like solid meals for two or three days. And me watching people cook and me watching people make like desserts and full blown like food porn. Damn near and he'd be like, how are you watching this? Like, you're not even eating food. My stomach caved in. I'm sitting on the floor and like, wrapped up like a mummy. Cause I'm trying to sweat and I'm full blown. In my mind, I'm not realizing I'm studying, but now in retrospect, I'm studying for what God had in store for me. But yeah, I was full blown, like watching Food Network all day, every day. A lot of people that I used to watch on YouTube was like, people versus food. I used to watch Cocoa Butter, which is like a YouTube channel of like us trying different cuisines that we never tried before. Guy Fieri, of course, Gordon Ramsay. Bobby Flay.

[Keith Lee]

You like Bobby Flay?

[Hoda Kotb]

Bobby Flay. Like, I was a huge studier when it comes to that. That's pretty much how I taught myself how to cook is just watching other people and watching other videos and tutorials and just coming here and experiencing and like experimenting with stuff.

[Keith Lee]

So that's what you do. You watch them do it. Like, okay, I can do that. Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Again, I've always been cocky in a sense as a kid. So I was like, why can't I make a beef wellerton? It's a video right now of me in that kitchen making a beef Wellerton. And it was horrible. But I tried. I was so kind. That was one of the hardest dishes to make in literally in a culinary field. And me, I was what, like 22? I was like, why not? I had like a little burnt pan. I had some puff pastry. I'm cutting mushrooms. Like, I'm really doing something full blown. The pastry dough was this thick. It was raw in the middle. The steak was overcooked. I cut the puff pastry out and ate the steak.

[Keith Lee]

Anyway, when you were you a foodie when you were growing up, did you critique your mom, your grandmother's cooking, and you're like, this was good. I don't know about this one, Mom.

[Hoda Kotb]

I've been his weight my whole life. Shannon. They used to get so mad at me. Even Thanksgiving, I used to full blown be like, in my opinion, this is like a. Yeah, full blown. Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

They didn't, they didn't take kindly to that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes and no. Right. So like, my, my dad was always the one who cooked. My dad was a very meat eater.

[Keith Lee]

Oh, okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

So he used to cook steaks. I'm talking about full blown. Like we used to walk in the house. My. My wife used to hate it at first because she come from a house where they make Full meals. My dad just made meat. So you had no veggies? No veggies, no nothing. You might have a little piece of asparagus like this be, but it's really just steak. And I'm talking about on a cutting board, just laid out.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

So, like, that's the kind of house that I grew up in.

[Keith Lee]

Right. So what made you change from cooking videos to doing reviews? When did, when did that switch go off to say, you know what, the cooking video's okay, but let me review food that's already been cooked.

[Hoda Kotb]

Before we continue, I just want to say you are amazing at what you do. It's different seeing it in person and seeing how you handle the conversation and take it to different spots that I already was thinking in my mind, no, this about crazy. But what was the question?

[Keith Lee]

How did you, how did you determine to stop doing. You was doing cooking videos on YouTube and then you said, you know what? Switch goes off. You're like, okay, let me do reviews and start placing those on Tick tock.

[Hoda Kotb]

It was right after that last fight. Like I said, I was having conversations and I didn't know what I was about to do. And I just started listening to that inner voice and I literally was just doing whatever felt right at the time. So my, again, we in this kitchen, we standing in there, and I was, at this point, I was making cooking videos, but I also was like dibbling, dabbling with food reviews and people vs food who I just said I used to watch a lot. I made a video saying I used to watch them, and they reached out and was like, we would love to have you on the show. And back then, that's the equivalent of Shannon Sharp calling me. And like, we want to sit down and do an interview at the house that you grew up in. So I'm freaking out and I'm like panicking and I'm like, what am I, what am I about to do? But again, I'm at the point of trusting God and trusting the plan that he put in for me. So I'm like, whatever. We. At this point, I'm in my mind, I'm like, what they want to talk to me for? Like, what they want to bring me on there for, But I'm just trusting God and I'm letting it happen the way it's supposed to. And I'm standing in the kitchen, my wife comes over and she says, okay, if you about to go on People versus Food, what are you going to post on your page that's going to make people come and actually follow you and not just come and look at your page and keep scrolling. And I was like, I already do food reviews every now and again. What if I just post one full review a day until I get on the show? This was in November 2022. And my sister, she's always been a battery pack in my back. She was living with us at the time, and she living on the couch right here. And she like, yeah, why don't you? And I'm like, okay, let me just try it. Right? I start posting once a day in November. By December, so I started at 1.4 million followers. By December, I had, like, 7 million followers. Wow. I had, like 7 million. That's when a Wingstop deal came in. That's when the money started rolling in a little bit. And it just was like, what. What's happening?

[Keith Lee]

Right?

[Hoda Kotb]

Like, I vividly remember being in here. Like, what is going on? I. I got a call from Kevin Hart while I'm sitting right here in the same spot. And he like, yeah, I want you to come try my restaurant. And I'm like, what are you doing, Kevin? You. I literally. I had the video on my phone of me looking at him like. Like, what are you talking about? Why would I come try food for you? And he like, bro, you. The biggest thing. You this, that, and the third, I don't see myself or other people see me. And I think that stems from my anxiety. So I. I see myself as a normal person. And genuinely, to my core, I'm just Keith. So when things like that happen, it's like, you lying. Like, stop lying.

[Keith Lee]

Right? Do you shoot and edit all your own videos?

[Hoda Kotb]

Everything. So I shoot on my phone. I literally take my phone, and I sit on the steering wheel and I record. I sit with my family. We eat food. The second the camera go off, I go to the back of the Sprinter, I edit the videos, I post it, and then we go about our day.

[Keith Lee]

But, you know, that just messed you up. Yeah, yeah. So you never really have any interaction with the people that actually own the restaurant. You go in there and buy food just like a normal person.

[Hoda Kotb]

You.

[Keith Lee]

You. You're in your Sprinter. You eat. You like. I mean, obviously you're not eating that much. That's the thing.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because I would be huge if I ate everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so I gave you the full rundown of how it works, so. And when we go to a restaurant, it's specifically either based off a recommendation or it's based off the restaurant itself reaching out. So that way nobody can say I was picking on them and I just randomly went to a restaurant and gave my aunt solicited opinion. The opinion is always asked for. So once we go to the restaurant, I'll have my sister or I have somebody that nobody's ever seen me with in my family, go and order the food.

[Keith Lee]

They might be knowing your sister now. You might have to go disguise.

[Hoda Kotb]

It depends on where we at. So if it's a spot where, because the threshold is 100 to 150 recommendations and like I said, somebody reaching out. So if it's a place where it's like barely over the threshold, it's like 100 spot, 100 recommendations, then I'll send my sister in. Because a lot of the time those people have no idea, right? But if it's a place where we got 2500 recommendations or we got 3000 recommendations, or the restaurant owner and his mama and his grandmama and his cousin and reached out, then that's when I send a family member that nobody's ever seen me with. Okay? So it's levels of like ninja that we call it. It's like levels of like incognito. So if it's at the highest level, it's somebody that you've literally never seen me with. Somebody that don't even look like they related to us that you would never. And we even get like, we get real creative. Like they go to DDS and grab like random shopping bags just so they look like they've been shopping in the neighborhood, they throwing full disguises. So it's a full blown like mission basically. So they go in, they get the food, they record the experience. When they come back in the car, they give us all the information of how the customer service was, how fast it took, how many people was in there. They get videos of the inside and everything. I do the review full blown, unbiased, just giving my personal opinion. The second that the video turns off, if there's, if it's an 8 or higher of like the overall rating for the car, because we literally. I asked everybody, like, how did y'all think about it? The experience, the food? If it's over 8, we go and then we have a conversation with the owner. And a lot of times if I feel like it's over 8, we blessed enough to where we'll have people jump on a plane and literally try to place the same day. So I as again, with a great power comes great responsibility. So I feel like it's in our duty to go in and have a conversation with the owner. And tell them like, hey, there's no promises, but it might get crazy in here, right? And a lot of times that's why we leave really large tips so they can afford to go grab the food that they need for the next day. Because a lot of these places, they are either like behind a rent or they just like make ends meet. So it's like they can't afford to the. For the surge. Like they can't afford to keep up with the demand because a lot of times they have to hire people that same day or they got to call their cousins and be like, hey, we need 10 of y'all to come and help us for tomorrow. So we pay up. Up for that. So we pay for the food, the, the help that you may need, and everything that comes involved in that. So that's when we talk to the owners.

[Keith Lee]

Do you remember the first video you uploaded that went viral?

[Hoda Kotb]

Full review. Mr. Gary. Mr. Gary. It was a food truck that was around the corner from here. So I used to ride my bike just to stay in shape. And the trip is maybe like 10 minutes from here, but it's a straight shot up flamingo. So I used to come out here, I used to ride my bike, and I was riding real late, so maybe like 11:00. So this is maybe two weeks into. Remember I told you I was posting every day?

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

This is maybe two weeks into that. And I was riding my bike back from the strip. This was maybe at like, like 12 o'clock at night. It's real late and I'm driving past a random street that like, literally nobody usually walks on because I don't know if, you know, we in a hood. Shannon. Okay. At 12 o'clock, it don't be nobody down the street normally. So I'm driving down the street and it's a random like LED lit box and I can't tell what it is. And I'm like, why is there again we in a hood? I'm like, why is it lights in the middle of the street week? So I turn my bike around, I ride down, and lo and behold, it's a food truck. I walk up to it, I asked the man like, hey, can I try some food? And he like, yeah, we sell. It was called Mr. Gary's. I think it was like lobster and something. Mr. Gary, seafood. So he had. I'm allergic to shellfish, but he had lobster, shrimp, he had crab, he had everything. But he also had a burger. So I was like, can I try the burger? And he was like, I'm gonna be honest with you. Everything is cooked on the same grill. So I was, okay, never mind. And I went to leave and he was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm gonna clean the grill off, come back tomorrow, I'll literally disinfect everything. I'll clean everything. I'll break everything down. Mind you, he has no idea who I am, right? And in my mind I'm like, why would he do all of this for a stranger or just a regular customer?

[Keith Lee]

And for do all that for a burger? For a burger.

[Hoda Kotb]

The burger was, go down the street.

[Keith Lee]

They got burgers, they clean the burger.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's 12 o'clock at night. He like, bro, I'm about to leave for the night, but come back in the morning. I'm gonna come here early just for you specifically, and I'm gonna clean everything. So in my mind I'm like, why is this place slow? Why is this not a loyal fan base that's coming here and supporting this man that's really like putting his hole into this restaurant?

[Keith Lee]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

So I go back the next morning again. He still has no idea who I am. Go back the next morning, I try the burger. The burger is amazing. I make a video to that effect and say, hey, in my opinion, this burger is great. I tell the whole story. The video gets like 20 million. I would say, like in the first 12 hours or like 15 or 20 million. He calls me and he panicking. He in a full blown, like sweat. He run around the house. I'm like, what's going on? He like, people got my phone number. Why do people have my phone number? Lo and behold, I recorded the outside of the truck and it had his phone number across the top. And I was connected to his cash app. People sent him $40,000 in less than 12 hours. And he had no idea what to do. He was calling me. He like, do I pay these people their money back? He's like, do I go send these people food? Like, what do I do with this money? And I'm sitting there again, all of this is taking off for the first time. And I'm like, I don't know either, Mr. Gary. I'm like, all this is just to do to me. But it was like that reassurance or that knowingness of like, knowing I had a community behind me that was willing and more than willing to go out and support these restaurants. And I always, I told him that day, good people want to see good people win. And people literally was like flocking to his restaurant. Before you know it, the news Was there. The video had over, like, 30 million, 40 million views, and he had raised over, I think, like, $60,000.

[Keith Lee]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Keith Lee]

Why do you think people connect with your videos?

[Hoda Kotb]

I don't know, Shannon. I ain't go out to you. It baffles me every day. I think, for me, is because I pray a lot. Again, I don't see myself how other people see me. So it makes me question internally. But I always fall back to the fact that I feel like I'm supposed to be here, and God put me here for a reason. And I think a lot of it, giving myself a little credit, is that I really take this serious. Like, I don't play around. I know these are people's lives that are being affected. I know. And whether that be deemed good or bad, I know there's a lot of power that's been bestowed on me right now and bestowed on my family. We have no idea how long this is going to last. We don't know if we're going to be here tomorrow. We don't know if we're going to be here in three years. I just know as long as I can stay myself and I can be me, I'm going to be everywhere I'm supposed to be. So I feel like that's why people connect. If. If that's why y'all connect, I don't know why y'all connect me. I'm thankful for it, though.

[Keith Lee]

The foods that you critique, are they all foods that you've had before and you're basing it on a previous test or you're like, man, No, I just like this. I've never had this dish before, but I really, really like it.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's a great question. I like to think I step outside of the box a lot, but again, we go on recommendations, and a lot of my audience look like me. Now we're being blessed enough to where we stepping outside of that and we really hitting a worldwide audience. But for a long time, it was just us. So the recommendations I would get would be from restaurants that were specifically for us.

[Keith Lee]

Mac and cheese, collard greens, ribs, broccoli.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oxtails, stuff that we eat. But now, like I said, I like to think that we step outside the box. And again, I'm a true foodie. So even if I'm not recording, when we go into cities, I'm trying stuff that I've never tried before. I'm the type to literally book a flight to somewhere, get off the plane and just walk to the nearest restaurant and just try it and have no idea what I'm eating. We was in Japan. We was in Japan for a week straight. And when I say I ate everything under the sun, stuff I didn't even know how to pronounce, stuff I had, I'm talking about we walking into random buildings, eating everything that people was recommending. I think that's just the foodie in me. But for the most part, it, like I said, it's coming from recommendations, so it can sometimes be like monotonous. But it's deeper than the food for me, Shannon. It's like I said, it's the people behind the restaurants. It's people that look like us.

[Keith Lee]

Right? And a lot of times they got a story to tell, don't they?

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, literally how they started. And they got kids, they feeding off of this. Like they got they kids. Kids that they feeding off of this. I'm blessed enough to say that in the past year alone, we've been a part of changing 150 families lives that look like us. Wow.

[Keith Lee]

You grade on a scale of 1 to 10, how do you come to the. Have you ever given a 10?

[Hoda Kotb]

A few? I would say maybe 15, maybe max. We've been to over 300, 400 restaurants. I would say maybe 20. Max. Max.

[Keith Lee]

How does someone get a 10? What does it have to be? Obviously you want the customer service, you want the food hot. But how. What's the code? What's the A, B, C, D, E that gets to that 10?

[Hoda Kotb]

So I don't really do interviews, as you can tell. So I'm giving you stuff that I don't ever give to nobody.

[Keith Lee]

Good. Good.

[Hoda Kotb]

I like that.

[Keith Lee]

You like that. You like that? You like that.

[Hoda Kotb]

So I'm just giving you my full scale. For me, anywhere from a 1 to a 4 is something that I wouldn't eat again.

[Keith Lee]

You wouldn't eat again or you wouldn't. Wouldn't.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, 1, 2, or 3. I wouldn't eat again. Okay. 4 is like, I can see there's things that I personally would change, but there, if I needed to eat it, I would eat it.

[Keith Lee]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

Five is right in the middle. Five is like, it's not bad, but it's not good. Six is like, okay, we fix a few things. This can be really, really good. Seven is like, this isn't the worst thing I had, but again, you fix maybe two or three items and. Or two or three ingredients in a dish and we talk about something superior. Eight is like. Like, even if I'm not recording, I'll eat this. I would probably wouldn't eat the whole thing, but I'll eat it if I'm coming back to the city. Nine is like, I'm about to finish this, and whoever wants some, y'all better hurry up and get it, because it's about to be gone.

[Keith Lee]

Okay?

[Hoda Kotb]

10 is. Nothing that I personally can think of can be changed about this dish to make it better. It ain't a piece of salt that can be added. It ain't no level of sweetness, no level of savoriness. It's nothing in this dish, no added ingredient that I can think of that can make this any better. So that's why I give it a 10, because in my mind, that's a perfect dish.

[Keith Lee]

Have you ever made recommendations like, man, you need to add a little bit more this, a little bit more that. Take. Do they take your. Do people take your advice?

[Hoda Kotb]

I would like to think so. So we went to a place in New Orleans, and it was called. What was the name of it? Y'all know what I'm talking about? It was called something. It was like a sweet bayou or bayou effect or something like that. And it was supposed to be Mexican inspired tacos and Mexican inspired food. It was black people food. Yeah, full blown. And I went in, I had a conversation with them, and I was like, let's just call it black people food.

[Keith Lee]

Right? Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

When I say it was. So they had nachos. The nachos with oxtail over top. The nachos was like ground beef. It was ground beef, nacho cheese. It was like. I think they even was. They using Doritos. They was using some kind of, like, bag. Dorito chit, Right? That ain't Mexican. That's us.

[Keith Lee]

Yes. Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I feel like once you identify your demographic and identify your target audience and you make it known exactly who you making food for.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

It makes it easier for people in the audience in the area to be like, oh, I eat that kind of food. Oh, I want to try that. So. And. And after we had the conversation, they changed a lot of the meal items to reflect what. Exactly what it was.

[Keith Lee]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

It was like roteo dip. And they called it, like. Like, Mexican nacho inspired. I was like, this is roteo. I know. It's velveeta.

[Keith Lee]

So you started like, I'm reading that you. And you watched a lot of videos with your daughter, the Paw Patrol, and things like that. And you was like, well, you know, hey, is that. Did that really give you the idea that you.

[Hoda Kotb]

You with the chair?

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

No, I didn't have furniture, so you.

[Keith Lee]

Never getting rid of this, huh?

[Hoda Kotb]

No. Yes.

[Savannah Guthrie]

Yeah. No.

[Keith Lee]

Your wife ain't gonna let you get rid of this.

[Hoda Kotb]

That ain't going nowhere. That's going in the case somewhere in a few years. Yeah. So how that happened was I literally didn't have furniture. My. We bought my daughter a play set. And it was a little small white table, and it was this paw patrol chair, or this is like the third one because I done broke so many of them sitting in them. But it was a paw patrol chair and it was sitting in this corner.

[Keith Lee]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

And she had like a little kitchen set up. So one thing about us as parents, I like to tip our hats off. No matter what we got, our kids gonna have everything.

[Keith Lee]

Okay?

[Hoda Kotb]

So we. I can be down to my last pair of shoes. I can be down to not eating. My kids gonna have whatever they think about. So my daughter can walk into the store and grab whatever she want. And this is when we was making $100 a week.

[Keith Lee]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I was. I'm talking about full blown. My 2 year old walking down aisles, grabbing stuff, throwing in the cart. And however we about to make it happen, we gonna make it happen.

[Keith Lee]

Right?

[Hoda Kotb]

So she had every toy that you can think of. And we didn't have a kitchen table. And one day I was doing a food review and I didn't have anywhere to set up that I didn't have no fancy lights. I ain't had no fancy setup. I literally was setting my phone up on like either a bottle or like whatever I can get close to me. At one point, it was a bowl of sugar and I would just set my phone up on it, and her chair was sitting right there. And at this point, I was probably like £150. 100. I was shredded. I was lean, ripped, and I was like. I was built like a superhero, but I remember vividly sitting in that chair and I was like, if I can fit in, I'm about to make the video right here. And I made the video and somebody commented like, what is he sitting on? And I was like, oh, this is having people talk. Like, it's making people talk. So I was like, I'm about to just sit in it from now on. And that just became a thing. And especially with the Internet, you don't know what's gonna stick.

[Keith Lee]

You don't.

[Hoda Kotb]

Especially when you not even trying. Like how you didn't try to swipe on Instagram Live. You don't even know what you.

[Keith Lee]

I don't, I don't, I don't. I had to Give you one, Bro.

[Hoda Kotb]

I ain't even got you one. I have to give you one.

[Keith Lee]

Well, see, that's why. That's why I got somebody to handle that now.

[Hoda Kotb]

Come on, Michelle. I have to get you one.

[Keith Lee]

But see, the best part about that, had. It would have been a lot longer had he not turned it off. Cause he has. He has access to my account. So had he not turned it off, it might have been four hours.

[Hoda Kotb]

Uh, you ain't going for four hours, bro. I'm just saying. You ain't going for four hours.

[Keith Lee]

You know, they got me driving. Got me driving home, going to the gym, all that been in there.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, for me, it was. It was one of the situations where it was like, I didn't even know it was about to be a thing. And it just so happened to be a thing.

[Keith Lee]

The Chipotle review. You. You. You reviewed that state quesadilla. And I don't. They liked it, I guess, because they got a noise. They got. They got a key, a keeper deal. No, but I'm just saying, because at one point in time, I think you interviewed. It's like, man, they don't give you enough with.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, the portions are okay.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah. The portion size, I don't know, they might have kept that up for a week. Cause they done going back to the small portion size.

[Hoda Kotb]

Keith.

[Keith Lee]

I'm just saying. I'm just saying.

[Hoda Kotb]

So for me, even the way that happened. So there was a video that a lady named Lexus, she put out, and she. So she goes around and she tries recommendations that employees make. So, like, you know, if you work at a restaurant, you do things that other people don't do because you've been there all day, you just start messing with concoctions and whatnot. So her thing is that she goes around and she tries employee recommended. So she tried a place. I mean, she tried Chipotle. And an employee recommended a steak quesadilla with fajitas and sour cream. Right. So I just tried it and I'm like, oh, this is amazing.

[Keith Lee]

Right?

[Hoda Kotb]

In my mind, this is when Chipotle was like, at the top of. The top of the game.

[Keith Lee]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

This one. Everything was fresh and, like, it was. My quesadilla was spilling how big it was. I tried it. I never in a million years thought that it was going to take off the way it was going to take off. And I know that's a cliche thing to say, but a week after I post that video, I'm on the phone with the CEO of Chipotle. And like, you know, they'd be having them real long tables. Yeah, they set the zoom call up where the table was. Like I was sitting on the edge of the table and it was just a long like director, CEO, coo. And I'm sitting there in my car. I'm in a 2013 Hyundai Sonata, was it? Or Accent Hyundai Accent. Hubcap falling off the tip, peeling. You gotta make sure you put it in the gear the right way. Cause it's syrup and all kind of stuff in the gear shift. I'm talking about full blown on the phone with the CEO, the CEO of Chipotle. And he like, yeah, we wanna bring the quesadilla and make it a full meal item. We wanna name a Chipotle after you. They literally changed the entire Chipotle to. From Chipotle to Chipotle again. Shannon. I'm like, what are we doing right? Like. But it was just stamped from me sitting in his chair eating a case of beer.

[Keith Lee]

This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just simply go back to Club Shape profile and I'll see you there.

[Hoda Kotb]

What's poppin Justin Jefferson here? Football is a lot of explosions, a lot of energy and attitude. It's a whole different vibe with these open earbuds. It's like you're in the moment, but also you can hear everything around you. You can be involved. To have good sound and to be so light on your ear means a lot to me. Putting that music into my ears. You feel good enough to go out there and play.

[Keith Lee]

You turn on that switch, no one can stop you.

[Hoda Kotb]

For more, check out Bose.com with Kroger brand products.

[Savannah Guthrie]

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[Keith Lee]

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