Club Shay Shay - Miguel Part 1

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Miguel (Part 1)

Host: Shannon Sharpe
Guest: Miguel (Grammy-winning singer, songwriter, producer)
Date: November 5, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Club Shay Shay features an in-depth, emotionally rich conversation between Shannon Sharpe and R&B superstar Miguel. They discuss Miguel's new album "Chaos," the journey of personal and artistic growth, love, sacrifice, career milestones, and the hard lessons learned along the way. The episode weaves together live music, candid vulnerability, and reflections on music industry realities, relationships, and the power of self-awareness.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Performing “Always Time”: Pain, Growth, and Letting Go

[03:33–07:42]

• Miguel opens the episode by performing “Always Time” live, a ballad from his new album “Chaos.”
• Shannon Sharpe is visibly moved and remarks on how the song’s emotional depth speaks to heartbreak and letting go, noting, “I can tell when someone sings a song and it’s coming from a place of hurt...” [07:42]
• Miguel explains the song’s genesis:

  “It started out as… there’s always time, and because of love, there’s always time. Over time, I’ve learned that sometimes love means letting go… The song encapsulates a whole relationship.” [09:56–11:40]

2. The Paradox of Love: Holding On vs. Letting Go

[11:40–15:24]

• Shannon and Miguel discuss the counterintuitive challenge of loving deeply but recognizing when to let go for both people’s sake.
• Miguel:

  “As a human being… I learned over… a long span of my life where there’s a lot of growing and learning in real time. The song reflects that.” [12:16]

• The conversation explores how ending a relationship can be harder for the one who doesn’t want to end it, and how the pain is often an indicator of the depth of the investment and personal growth needed.

3. Communication and Apology Styles

[15:24–16:51]

• Miguel shares new personal insights on how people have different apology “styles,” not just love languages.
• Miguel:

  “I just learned about apology styles… For me, it’s by action, planned action... I receive it that way.” [15:46]

• Both agree on the challenge of making oneself understood and the lifelong process of honing interpersonal skills.

4. On Long-Term Relationships and Personal Accountability

[16:51–21:42]

• Shannon highlights the unique pain of ending a long relationship—Miguel was with his ex-wife from age 19 to 36.
• Miguel:

  “I know where I went wrong though—I wasn’t whole… Even being able to say and admit that I’m not whole… changes my approach. I didn’t communicate… I didn’t build…the trust as a friendship to protect that later on… It’s all clear in hindsight.” [17:57–19:55]

• He reflects on the danger of entering relationships before knowing oneself and the importance of honesty from the outset.

5. Healing, Reflection, and Moving Forward

[26:24–29:17]

• Miguel embraces his learning process:

  “I’m a much more aware person now, and I hate that I had to learn it the hard way, but we must continue, you know… this song 'Always Time' represents… honoring the time, effort, and sacrifice we both put in.” [26:24]

• Shannon emphasizes moving forward as a universal necessity; both men agree on the value of learning from mistakes and the difficulty and necessity of letting go to grow.

6. The Journey of Self-Work and the “Chaos” Album

[31:35–36:57]

• Miguel released his album “Chaos” on his 40th birthday, marking a decade of intense personal work (“the last 8 years have been me work”).
• Miguel:

  “The album isn’t about love or sex, it’s about how painful it is to be human... I did a lot of avoiding of my own work that I needed to do, to lock in with me in the journey of being a musician…” [34:06–35:45]

• His next decade is dedicated to supporting Black, Brown, and Latino creators from underserved communities.

7. Sacrifice, Ambition, and the Cost of Excellence

[36:57–43:18]

• The sacrifices demanded by excellence are confronted head-on.
• Shannon admits:

  “I can’t love you like I love football, I can’t love you like I love the pursuit of greatness. And so I sacrifice—kids’ events, family events, relationships. That’s what killed my relationships… Freedom is the goal.” [39:10–41:00]

• Miguel recognizes the need for better communication about sacrifice and hopes to remain more present in his next decade.

8. Relationships, Presence, and Learning to Communicate

[49:01–53:17]

• Miguel expresses a desire to be more present in his relationships and discusses how Scorpios (his sign) are communicative—but often in a way only they understand.
• Shannon and Miguel share stories of failing to communicate effectively with partners and the necessity of “learning a second language” to make oneself understood by a loved one.

9. Artistic Pride, Legacy, and Creative Process

[53:17–66:07]

• Miguel names “El Plato" as his favorite song on “Chaos” because it celebrates the legacy of sacrifice across generations:

  “That song is about how proud I am to have gone through what I’ve gone through… My soul is still standing.” [53:21–54:49]

• He details the creation of “Sure Thing,” revealing it was almost given to Usher and perhaps even heard by Michael Jackson.
• Miguel recalls writing “Sure Thing” at age 19, reflecting, “I was aspiring to have love like that… What you know about love at 19?” [58:38]

10. Music Industry Realities, Streaming, and Artist Ownership

[81:34–85:32]

• Miguel breaks down what streaming means financially:

  “27 million [streams] a month… every million translates to about $4,000 currently. So do the math.” [81:50]

• He critiques the streaming paradigm for devaluing musicians’ work and argues that artist-owned platforms should be the future.
• He’s passionate about the need to “reaffirm the value of music,” seeing current systems as unsustainable for most artists.

11. Advice for Young Artists

[91:20–91:53]

• Miguel’s key advice:

  “Be your own hero. Operate by your values. If you don’t know the answer, go with the best option and adjust... Overthinking will stunt the growth. Live by your values.” [91:20]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Love and Letting Go
  “Maybe this time, love means letting go… I think the song kind of encapsulates like a whole relationship.” – Miguel [11:40]

• On Communication and Apology
  “I’ve learned that I’m by action, planned action… That’s the most impactful way of me saying I’m sorry.” – Miguel [15:46]

• On Personal Growth
  “I wasn’t whole…even being able to say and admit that I’m not whole...changes the way that I approach things.” – Miguel [17:57]

• On Sacrifice for Greatness
  “I can’t love you like I love football... had I poured into a relationship what I poured into football, but when I laid in my bed as a kid…that wasn’t in my dream.” – Shannon [39:10–40:08]

• On Presence in Relationships
  “I want to maximize on the time that I have when I have it, make it really count so that when you’re present, you’re really present…” – Miguel [49:33]

• On Generational Sacrifice
  “We are the summation of all the sacrifices made by those before us… I’m really actually proud of myself… my soul is still standing.” – Miguel [53:21–54:49]

• On Creating “Sure Thing”
  “I was a starving artist… I was willing to give it up if it was gonna mean getting to the next level.” – Miguel [65:29–65:32]

• On Streaming Economics
  “Every million translates to about $4,000 currently. So do the math... Streaming as it is devalues the art and sacrifice of a lot of people.” – Miguel [81:50–82:10]

• Advice to Aspiring Artists
  “Be your own hero. Operate by your values... Overthinking will stunt the growth.” – Miguel [91:20]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:33–07:42| Miguel performs “Always Time” | | 09:42–11:40| Song origins and emotional backstory | | 16:51–19:55| Reflections on young love and personal accountability | | 26:24–29:17| Honoring the relationship, learning and moving forward | | 31:35–36:57| The journey to “Chaos,” self-work, supporting underserved creators | | 36:57–43:18| Sacrifice, ambition, the cost of greatness, struggles with balance | | 53:17–54:49| Miguel's favorite song: "El Plato" and generational sacrifice | | 62:14–66:07| The making of “Sure Thing,” pitching it to Usher | | 81:34–85:32| Streaming realities, artist ownership, economics of modern music industry | | 91:20–91:53| Miguel’s advice to the next generation of artists |

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in introspective conversation. Miguel and Shannon Sharpe, both high achievers in their respective fields, communicate honestly about the joys, losses, and lessons that come with greatness. Their discussion transcends music and sports to touch on what it means to live intentionally, love deeply, own one’s journey, and keep growing—even when it hurts.

For those interested in the creative process, personal transformation, and the hidden challenges behind success, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I turned off news altogether.

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Let's move forward from there.

[B]

NBC News reporting for America.

[A]

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[A]

It'S Colin from the Colin Coward Podcast. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it, or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean, tasting the made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should, too. Distilled and bottled by 5th Generation Inc. Austin, Texas. 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.

[E]

And Doug, here we have the Limu.

[A]

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Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[A]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[F]

Only pay for what you [e-mail].

[B]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings. Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[E]

Of all the artists that you work with, who would you like to collab and do an album with?

[B]

Man, I was just texting Cole.

[E]

Really?

[B]

Oh, bro. I'm sitting here on Shay Shay.

[E]

Tell him you welcome anytime in an interview.

[B]

Real quick. But Shay, say what up?

[G]

All my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price want a slice, got to roll a dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life all my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle.

[B]

Paid the price want a slice not rolling dice that's why all my life.

[G]

I've been grinding all my life.

[E]

Hello. Welcome to another episode of Club Shay Shay. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shay Shay. Stopping by for conversation on the drink Today is a Grammy award winning singer, a multi platinum selling songwriter, an R and B superstar, a career that spans over two decades. His music has transcended generations. A creator of timeless music, a premier genre defining progressive artist, a global pioneer, a visionary, a trailblazer, a talented musician, guitarist, stage performer, producer, sought after collaborator. He's here to perform two songs off his new album called Chaos. The first song is titled Always Time. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Miguel.

[H]

Broken glass Piercing words you change so fast yeah it hurts Rocky Past lessons.

[B]

Learned don't say it's too late I.

[H]

Thought there was always time.

[B]

When you.

[H]

Love this heart and you try this.

[B]

Hard.

[H]

But it's still not enough maybe this time love means letting go Let it go, let it go maybe this time love means letting go Let it go, letting go maybe this time love me Letting go.

[B]

Private Truth Public wo.

[H]

All my favorite songs have highs and lows. Laugh with the world or cry alone.

[B]

No, it's too late I thought there.

[H]

Was always time when you laugh this.

[D]

Hard.

[H]

And you cry this hard.

[B]

But.

[H]

It'S still not enough maybe this dark love means let it go let it go, let it go maybe this time love please let it go let it go, let it go O maybe this time love me oh when you cry and you try crying you cry Finding you fine Only opposite ways that you grow maybe this time love me Let it go, let it go, let it go Broken glass it changed so fast.

[B]

Rocky B Lessons learned I know it's too late I thought there was always time.

[E]

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[B]

Yeah, this is. And thank you. That's. That's the goal, you know, is to make music that still carries the emotion in it. Right. That's why we love music.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

We love music.

[E]

Especially. We can relate.

[B]

Man, it's a trip. It's really a trip because I grew up always, you know, I'm a very. I'm like loyal to a fault kind of. That's how I know how to love. That's how I've taught. Been taught how to love. Love covers all things. You know, it bridges all things, heals all things. And. And I think for our. For this song, it tracks all of the growth and the. And the learning about love in the lyric and in the message because it started out as a man Shannon, I started this song as like a. It was a positive song, right? It was a song like there's always time, and because of love, there's always time. There's a hope. You know, it was a hopeful song. There's a lot of faith in the song and. And over time, I think I've learned, you know, that love sometimes actually means caring so much about and loving someone more than yourself and what you want so as to act on behalf of them, to protect them, you know, And I think the song. It's crazy. The song kind of evolved like that. I realized that maybe we were growing and, you know, I was growing in a different direction and. And. And it's. It's. It's a trip. The song kind of encapsulates like a. A whole relationship.

[E]

You know, normally when we love something so much, we want to hold it closer, we want to pull it to us. We don't want to let it go. But you say this time, maybe it means letting go. Letting go, letting go. Maybe I love you so much. Maybe the best way that I can show you that I really love you is to let you go.

[B]

That's it. That's a hard.

[E]

It is. Because, you see, you understand how that's oxymoronic is that normally. Normally we love something, we want to hold it, we don't want to let it go.

[B]

It's counterintuitive.

[E]

Yes, for sure.

[B]

For sure. Especially when you're raised to, you know, again, like I said, like, you know, love really covers all things, you know, and so, yes, it's definitely one of those ones as a. As a human being that I've. I learned over the course of a. Of a long span of my life, you know, a period of my life where there's a lot of growing and learning in real time.

[E]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. The song reflects that.

[E]

How hard is it to end a relationship when you do love someone? I always think, Miguel, that a relationship. Ending a relationship is easy if you the one that want to end it.

[B]

Valid.

[E]

It gets difficult when you don't want to.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

You on the other end.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

But how hard is it? Because, you know, like you said, it's that tug that I love you, but I gotta let you go. Because.

[B]

I mean, we. We've. We've all had to let go of things that we didn't want to. That's just a part of life. You know, I think when it really gets hard is like when it's become a part of. When it becomes a part of your everyday, every Day. Yes. Reality. It's like, it makes it really challenging. And it is like one of those ones that I think proves real, Real consideration and care to be able to go, you know what? Actually. Nope. I can't fulfill what is deserved here, you know, and it's a song like this that actually helped me heal. Always Time actually really helped me heal. And hopefully, like all the songs on this album really actually helps people understand that, like, we all have things that we're trying to clarify in life, and we're all trying to do the best that we can. And sometimes some things we get. And it comes very naturally. Yeah, I took to walking and running and riding a bike completely naturally. You know, I realized over time that, like, ironically, communication is not my strongest. You would think that as a songwriter and as a musician, you know, that my communication skills would be. I thought they were so much stronger and better than they actually are. And it took some. It took some time. This song being one of the indications and the writing of this album that I. That I learned that there was a lot of work to be done there and. And that's. I think everybody's got their own things that they're. They're clarifying and working on, but that's one of the ones. So I'm really happy that it came together on this song because I don't think I've been able to put it together like that before. Like that.

[E]

What if you're communicating in a language she doesn't understand, man?

[B]

Isn't that the crazy thing I just learned about. Not just because we've heard, like, love styles, right, that people have different ways of, like, communicating.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

I just learned about apology styles. Like, I didn't know that there were different styles and that we receive apology in different ways.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

Right. So, like me personally, what I've learned is that I'm by action, planned action. So, like, when I apologize, it's best for me. And it's the most meaning for me to say, well, you know, what I'm understanding, you say is I did A B and C, and that made you feel A B and C. And so next time when this happens, what I'm going to do is do this, this, and this. How does that feel? That to me is how I. I've learned now is the most. That's the most impactful way of me saying, I'm actually really. I'm really a part. I'm really apart. I'm really sorry, you know, action, and vice versa. I receive it that way. So. So I've been learning so much, man. We're just learning. And. And I do think that, like, look, it wasn't like it was given to us, you know, everything. We. We got a lot of great teaching, and then we got some things that need to be built on every. You. These are definitely ones that have made a difference for me.

[E]

You and your ex, your wife, you guys dated from the time you were 19 until the time you were 36.

[B]

Man, we really jumped into this one. Yeah, I was asking for it. I was asking for it with the song.

[E]

Yes, because. Is that what you mean when you've invested so much? You talk about 19, you're a teenager, and here you are in your late 30s and having to walk away after you've invested so much time. And this is what I tell people, Miguel, is that the more you invest in something, the more it hurts when it doesn't work out.

[B]

Man.

[E]

It hurt me to lose because I know how much time I invested in lifting those weights and meetings and the way I ate and the discipline I had of not going out and denying myself certain things. So you damn right it hurt when it didn't work out. When you spend this amount of time with someone, you think, okay, this is it. I got someone that didn't. When I didn't have anything. And she see this maturation as we go through this thing called life. And damn, yeah, baby, what? And I'm sure you're asking yourself, what? What? Where did I go wrong? Where did we go wrong? What happened?

[B]

No, I know. I know where I went wrong, though I wasn't whole, though I was. And I'm not saying that I'm like, oh, my God, I got all the answers now. But even being able to say and admit that I'm not whole and to come to it completely changes the way that I approach things. You know, it's more as a student, it's more from a place of. Well, what I do know is this is where I'm leading from, and this is what is guiding and directing my decision making. And it's such a domino effect when you can't start like that, you know, at 19, and especially at 19 and coming into. Into really wanting to focus on your career and all of that. I was in not. I wasn't in the headspace to be with anyone, and I didn't know how to. I didn't communicate, you know, so there's a lot of things that I did wrong. I did. I set up with. With my ex. I set it up. I didn't set it up properly, you know, I didn't. I didn't build. Just build the trust as a. Just a friendship to protect that later on the Becoming a relationship the way that I could have. You know, I think if I was to do it again, I would have really said, hey, I'm actually not ready right now. You know, but it also is a trip because, you know, when you meet someone, you're like, man, I really. There's something special.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

So I can see where my. Where, where everything happened. I was young and I was excited that I had met someone that I felt was significant, you know, and that we had a real connection. And we did.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

And. And I think that's what makes it the hardest now, because, you know, in there, I could have protected it by saying, you know, maybe this is too early, this is too soon, and I didn't. But it's all clear in hindsight. You know what I mean? It's clear in hindsight.

[E]

It is.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

So when you go to her and you say, babe, I don't think this is working anymore. I'm sure she probably said, well, what do you mean? You're like, babe, I just. Because you're a different person at 19 than you are at 36. You're a different person at 25 than you are at 35.

[B]

No, the real thing is, and I don't want to spend too much time on it because I know that we both have a tremendous amount of love for each other and were working very hard to not make it about what was, you know, what it was, you know. And, you know, I think a lot of people liked the vision of it, you know, and like the aesthetic and like the end, the happily ever after. Yeah. I think we all, you know, wanna. There's a part of that that I think lives in a lot of. In a lot of the memory of it and the symbolism. Right, right. It is like, it's a song like this that I think that allowed me to kind of look at myself and go, you know, I made a lot of mistakes, man. I'm not perfect. Never been perfect. Never said I was perfect.

[A]

And this is Colin Coward from the Colin coward podcast on Fox 1. Now you can stream your favorite live sport so you can for the biggest moments. That means NFL Sundays and college football games, NASCAR Major league baseball postseason and more. With Fox one, you get it all live, edgier seat plays, high octane moments, and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Fox one, we live for live streaming now.

[G]

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[C]

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[F]

Hey, everyone. Ed Helms here.

[A]

And hi, I'm Kal Penn, and we're the hosts of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[F]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[B]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little Colin Firth.

[F]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that, but are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennet. Here, listen to Irsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

I'm a much more aware person now, and I hate that I had to learn it the hard way, but we must continue, you know, and this is. This is the thing in life. So I think this song represents always time represents. And that's why when I sing it, I'm happy to be in the moment, in the presence of it, as honor to the time and effort and the sacrifice that she put in it. And myself, I put in it, too, through all of the. Just the honor of the whole thing. Because it was through time and effort that we both really had to come to letting things go. And she's an amazing person, you know, she's amazing person who deserves the best.

[E]

To move on from this. When things don't go as planned, how does one move on? Because I'm sure you had forever after in your plan. That's why you use wither for that length of time. And careers blossom, growing, and everything is happening. And now how should people. How do people. Cause I think it's different for everybody that you transition. Like, damn, I got. I can't just lie here and wallow and like, oh, this didn't work out. I got to move on. I got to live. Tomorrow is coming.

[B]

Everybody got to. Everyone has to move forward. I mean, I live through my music, you know, I'm Not. I think that's another thing I think is music decorates time the way that fine art decorates space, you know? And every moment of the music that I've given is a reflection of that time, and I like to keep it that way. So I'm. What did Lauryn Hill say? If it's not growing, it's dead. I'm just trying to do it better, you know what I mean? Every day I'm trying to do it better. So the music is a reflection of that, and the song is really my real letting go, you know, it's my real. Hey, like, I've really come to a place where I've. I understand my mistakes and I'm. I have remorse for these mistakes, and I've learned the lesson. I've taken the time to absorb the lesson as we. As we know. Like, you just. If you make a mistake and you don't really learn the lesson, you're just gonna keep. It's gonna keep coming back, and you're gonna keep hitting the same wall, and it's gonna cause the same pain, right? And so the song means to kind of like, be the. You know what? I got it. Okay. It's time to let go, and it's time to grow. Learn from it. Take it.

[E]

I heard a guy say many, many years ago, lessons not learned in blood are destined to repeat themselves.

[B]

But this is our life's work, though, right? Everyone. Everyone has a bit of their. You know, the things that we. We've received from our past, from our family, from our upbringing, all of that.

[E]

All that shapes us, though.

[B]

Yeah, it's passed down and we. As we. We take it on and we make it a part of our identity. And at some point, you got to kind of, like, take it off. Take it off and, like, look at it and go like, oh, I kind of assumed all of this, you know, and then I'm like, well, is that really need that? Like, is it extra? Is it just extra? Is it just dead weight? Is it. That's the refining process, man. That's. That's a part of it. And anyone who's done anything, I think people who are doers understands, right? It's like that journey is a. It's a refining process that continues and continues and continues.

[E]

So the road get bumpy sometimes? Hey, it's not straight either.

[B]

Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's nonlinear.

[E]

You get a flat tire, you need the engine run hot.

[B]

You're. You are going to hit the potholes. You going to swerve sometimes.

[F]

Okay.

[B]

All right. It's all right. And we going to continue. It's like that. So. Yeah. You know.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

It trips me out, though, sometimes, how people get really judgmental. You know, people get really judgmental about it, and I say, you know, if we're moving forward, moving forward, and we're trying, like, trying and we're doing actionable things to make a difference in the way that we behave and how it affects other people, especially when it's. It's not good. Like, I think that's commendable, you know, and who is. Who are we to judge other people? That's why I don't. I'm not. I'm not. I don't look at. I don't pay attention to the way that. That things happen right in the here and now. Everybody's on their own journey and got their own shit.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we just try to do it better every day. Yeah.

[E]

Let's get to this album. Congratulations, first of all. Congratulations on Chaos.

[B]

Thank you.

[E]

It came out on your 40th birthday, man. Let's get a little closer, man. Hey, was that my plan that you.

[B]

I don't know. Was it a plan?

[E]

I don't know.

[B]

Salute.

[E]

You seem like a guy that's very thoughtful that you plan things to the. Up to you.

[B]

Oh, listen, I definitely am dropping my album on my birthday, for sure. But it just so happens that I'm also on your show, you know, around it. So it's nice. Thank you. Salute. Salute. Cheers, man. That's nice.

[E]

Y' all heard. Y' all heard what he said?

[B]

What is that in the back? On the back end of that?

[E]

Yeah. You know, you taste a little marshmallow, you know? Yeah.

[G]

Yeah.

[E]

Went to cognac myself.

[B]

Okay. That's the way to get it.

[E]

Ooniblanc and a petite champagne.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Oak barrel. You know, the concept behind cognac, for it to be called a cognac, it has to originate the first two years in that region.

[B]

I see.

[E]

And so a VSOP. This is a VSOP. Very special. Old pale.

[B]

Very special.

[E]

Yeah. Four to six years. And then obviously you go, you know, XO. And you go 8 to 10, 8 to 12.

[B]

Then they become the XO.

[E]

Then it becomes gas. The longer you. Longer you let it sit. But we add no artificial colors. No artificial. No. No preservatives. So the color takes on from the barrel banger. So it's. We think we've done a great job. And. And for you to say, yeah, I like that, man.

[B]

That's. I mean, that's.

[E]

A banger.

[B]

Some salute. Cheers to that.

[E]

Oh man, that's nice.

[B]

Yeah. So we were talking about the VSOP.

[E]

I said, okay, so your 40s, so what do you hope to accomplish? What do you think you missed out you didn't accomplish in your 20s and 30s that you say, you know what? My 40s, there are some things that I didn't do in my 20s and 30s that I got to make sure I get done in my 40s, I.

[B]

Would say I didn't miss out on anything.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

I actually got really lucky early on and I focused so heavily on my career, so much so that I actually didn't. I did the catching up on my personal work in the last eight years.

[E]

Oh.

[B]

So I sort of focused all of my time and energy. I think that's another insight that it took some time to really understand. Man, being passionate and being driven about something really is a beautiful thing. But my learning in the past eight years, being able to do a lot of catch up work has been that, you know, you, it's. It's so important to stay locked in with yourself. So much so that you're, you're never making excuses on behalf of your passion. And I think in real, like, just for real, for real, I did a lot of like, avoiding of my own work that I needed to do to lock in with me in, in. In the journey of being a musician and wanting to get the music right and dialing in and like doing all the things that felt necessary in the time to get the music right. Came at the sacrifice. Not necessarily, but I actually actively chose whether I was conscious or subconscious. It was subconscious.

[E]

Right.

[B]

I just wasn't doing the me work, you know. And so the last eight years and what this album represents is a lot of me work. And it's why the album isn't about love and it's not about sex. Even though that's a part of what's in there, it's more about how painful it is to be human, you know, and that's why the opening lyric on RIP is like, man, can I surrender you to you? All my defenses are down. It hurts to be human.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

And it really is. It's a challenge, everybody. I'm sure you felt like, man, this is really tough.

[E]

Yep, of course.

[B]

You know, and, and it is. That's. That's a part of it. In the last eight years, what I've learned is, is, is better in bites, you know what I mean? Like, do it increment. Do it in increment, increments and like you can. It's more manageable. And so that's how my next 10 years will be. So. So to answer your question, my focus in the next 10 years is really like staying locked in with me and locked in on how I want to feel and devoting my time and attention to, you know, left of center, black brown, Latino creators like myself who deserve to be developed and their ideas papered, you know what I mean? Basically like they great ideas. It requires a lot of time, energy and development. And I'm building out a. Building out a whole, built out my whole company around supporting artists like myself. Black brown, Latino, came from underserved. You know, I'm saying communities who have ideas that could serve this world, you know, especially through their art and their IP. So that's my next 10.

[E]

What about the sacrifices that it take? You said that sometimes that you denied your music in order to maybe it was to appease someone else or to do something else when you probably should have been focusing probably more on the music. And you said in your 40s, you're going to get back to that. Can you share what it's like to have to sacrifice too? Because in order to sacrifice, somebody's going to have to go without. That's what sacrifice mean. Someone or something has to.

[B]

It has to come from somewhere.

[E]

Somewhere.

[B]

It's gotta come from somewhere.

[E]

I'm taking from this bucket, I'm taking from that bucket, I'm taking from this, but I'm taking from these buckets to pour all into one bucket, which is to make Miguel the best he can possibly be.

[B]

Right, right, right, right. That's an interesting one. And I would actually ask you, I'm like, how do you know there's so much like anyone who's done. The doers know.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Doers know that you are. At some point in time it's going to come at the expense. Your pursuit is going to come at the expense of someone else. Leadership is also at the expense of the whole. Is can't make everyone happy. You're looking at, okay, well what's the best overall? It's going to come at the sacrifice of somebody's immediate happiness. But overall it's for the better. The bigger.

[E]

That is correct vision.

[B]

Right. I think what I love to get insight from you is like, you know, like what is the. How have you learned to navigate that? Because I mean excellence. We're talking about excellence in the highest performing, most aggressive and not just the sport. I'm talking about the mentality, the headspace, you know, you know, how does one navigate that kind of pressure? Cause you really gotta then sacrifice and be like, oh, no, I am the best. I am the shit. I am the everything.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

And it kind of like, you know.

[E]

On the field, you have to believe that.

[B]

Right? Then when you leave the field, it's.

[E]

Hard to turn that off. It's hard to turn that off. And I've said this before, Miguel. I've ruined a lot of relationships for the simple fact that I'm good at compartmentalizing. I can't do two things. I can't love you like I love football. I can't love you like I love the pursuit of greatness. And so I sacrifice. Kids, events, family events, relationships. That's what killed my relationships. I'd have been married for 30 years had I. Had I poured into a relationship. What I poured into football. But when I laid in my bed as a kid, being married or having that one person next to me, that wasn't in my dream. My brother always say, a dream is a gift you give to yourself. The dream, the gift that I gave to myself, was to get my grandmother out of that thousand square foot single block home.

[B]

Valid.

[E]

The dream that I gave to myself was to make sure my family never had to eat cold oatmeal and eat the type of animals that we ate when we were growing up. That was the gift that I gave to myself. Looking back on it, could I have done something different? Yes. But I wouldn't have been this. No possible way. And you talk to anybody that's been great. Any athlete, any professional. And people like, well, yeah, look at them guys now. Yeah. Jeff Bezos has that life now. He didn't have that in his 20s and 30s, man. Bill Gates didn't have that in his 20s and 30s. Larry Ellison, Zuckerberg, they didn't have that. Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, LeBron, Kobe, rest his soul, Steph Curry. Yeah, you get to a point. And for me, money wasn't the goal. Money's the tool. Freedom is the goal.

[B]

Freedom is always the. That's the one. That's it.

[E]

And so I can just imagine this tunnel vision that a Beyonce, that a Michael Jackson, that a Prince, people that you like yourself, in order to be great, you got to sacrifice something. You have to. In the Bible, they talk about sacrifice. There you had to sacrifice a goat. You had to sacrifice something of importance. That's the only way. There's no other way around it.

[B]

Say it. That's the. So my thinking in this version is, you know, making the communication about the sacrifice really clear. And really, like, upfront, because in that way, it also keeps. It's kept me more. What is that? When you are accountable. It's kept me accountable because what it actually does is it makes me pay more attention in real time. And I don't want to ever spend another decade where I'm just so locked in. Locked in that I'm missing other things that are really important. And I think in doing that, what I've learned is it actually mitigates and actually helps include people, include my relationships, as opposed to separating them and compartmentalizing, because I'm good at compartmentalizing, too. And I think anyone that is really locked in on a goal, on a purpose, it comes with the territory to be able to go, well, I know that the odds are this and everyone's saying this, and I'm coming from here, and it's unlikely in these ways. And who knows if this is going to happen?

[E]

And you gotta be so fucked in a lot. I'm focused on a singular goal, a singular task, and everything that's going on, I don't even hear it. It's almost like when you're at the game, you don't even hear the crowd. All you do is that you're running the play, and it's total silence, man. And then you make a play and you get up and it's. It's chaos.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

So when I'm locked in on what I'm locked in on, I don't hear anything else. And that's. That's bad. You said something very interesting. It's like you find someone, everybody says they can be second until they're asked to be second, man.

[B]

It's fine.

[E]

I want you to do your.

[B]

Do you? Do you.

[E]

But the minute. Can we go out, babe? I gotta study. I gotta watch film. I gotta go take Club.

[B]

Shay.

[E]

Shay, I gotta do nightcap. No, I gotta go to this thing. Yeah, you ain't got no time.

[A]

This is Colin Coward from the Colin coward podcast on Fox 1. Now you can stream your favorite live sport so you can be there live for the biggest moments. That means NFL Sundays and college football games, NASCAR Major League Baseball, postseason and more. With FOX one, you get it all. Live, edgier seat plays, high octane moments, and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Fox one, we live for live streaming now.

[G]

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[C]

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[F]

Hey, everyone.

[A]

Ed Helms here and hi, I'm Kal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[F]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[B]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little Colin Firth.

[F]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett here. Listen to earsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook book club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[E]

I said, babe, I told you. See, everybody says that until they're asked to do that.

[B]

It really is. It's tough. It's tough. It's, it's. It's hard to understand unless you're in. Does make you. It does make you. It does make one really appreciate the ones in our lives that kind of can understand.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

You know, I think what I've. What I want my next 10. My next 10. I want to be more present. And I think it's also like, what I've learned too, is that I could be more present in the times that I sh. I'm supposed to be.

[E]

Right?

[B]

You know, it's like maximize on the time that I have when I have it, make it really count so that.

[E]

It'S never so when you're present, you're really present. You're not thinking about. Man, I really need to get back.

[B]

To check that email or. Oh, man, I had this idea. Did I get those files? Oh, man. Let me reach out to so and so. Man, they had these ideas last time that's just, you know, or mine going in other directions, whatever. But to lock in with the people that I get in the time that I have in the most quality way.

[E]

It's hard when you've never done that in 40 years and all of a.

[B]

Sudden ask yourself, I'm still learning. I'm still learning. But it's really helpful. I think having taken the time to appreciate the opportunity makes it more manageable. Makes it more manageable. Also with my son, too, it's like, listen. I want to maximize time with him.

[E]

I'm listening to Scorpio, Sza, Frank, Ocean, Sierra, Ellie Mae, Willow, Omarion, Maritas. Do you. I mean, what is it about Scorpios? I mean, what is it about you guys?

[B]

We're the best.

[E]

Y' all are dangerous.

[B]

Look, don't give me a try.

[E]

Scorpions are dangerous.

[B]

I mean, look, we're definitely passionate, driven, you know, again, loyal to a fault, you know, effective. I think that can rub people the wrong way. For me, communication is the key, you know, and learning how better to communicate. I realized this, too, that I went to music because I didn't know how to say how I was feeling, and I didn't feel like I had a place to say how I was feeling. And it became the place that I went to express myself. So it makes sense now in this time in my life, when I reflect that all the times that I thought I was communicating that I wasn't, it wasn't effective. I wasn't doing the thing.

[E]

Well, you was communicating. It was only a language that you understood.

[B]

Exactly. Or just communicating with myself. If you're a Scorpio, you know, you might just be talking to yourself.

[E]

You know how you go in those shops to get your nails and they be talking? You're like, I wonder what they saying. When you thought you was communicating. She was like, I wonder what he think he's saying to me. Cause I don't get what he's saying, and vice versa, right? So you're gonna have to learn. You know, sometimes we might have to learn a second language in order to communicate with our partner. So we both understand what. What she needs, and she understands what you need.

[B]

Also, we speak different languages. Like, have you ever noticed your friends or whomever, just they hear things a different way. So sometimes you just gotta know, like, okay, they're gonna hear that. Like that. So let me just be cognizant if I say it like this, they're gonna receive it like this. That's the consideration that you have when you care about somebody, you know?

[E]

Yes. I had to learn that because I'm like. I would say something, and I just automatically assumed they would understand what I'm talking about. And I'm like, why can't you, Shannon?

[B]

But what I said was. Well, you said it like this. And then what?

[E]

You know, I've had to learn to be very specific. Shannon. They're not in your head. They don't think like you think. They don't feel like you feel. They don't see it how you see it. That was the hardest thing. Because I'm saying something. I'm like, why you? Why is that?

[B]

So I'm like, why is that bothering you? Why does that bother you? All I said was this and this. And I meant it like this. And, you know, but it's learning, you know, I'm gonna.

[E]

Miguel, what's your favorite song that you've recorded?

[B]

A song called El Plato. Right now. Right now. There's a song on this album called El Plato, which is about the sacrifice that all of our. Well, that we make, that life requires. Again, sacrifice is what is that life requires. And all of the sacrifice that we are the summation of, be it our parents and their parents and their parents before them. It took a lot of luck to be here and a lot of sacrifice. And that song is about how proud I am to have gone through what I've gone through and whether it was the easy way or the hard way, to have learned what I've learned and to have my soul intact. You know, I think that's the thing I'm the most proud of, is that, you know, I've done a lot of things that I wouldn't repeat. And I've decided that actionably, I will do things like this and operate like this with a lot of consideration. And I'm proud of myself, man. And that song is about the. The fight that we all have to get to that place of, like, man, I'm really actually proud of myself. I've been through A, B, and C. And you know what? My soul is still standing. There's a line in there. La mis mas angre cabrona, que mije. Which is like the same blood as my father.

[E]

Okay?

[B]

La miz masangre cabrona que mije erido Pero valma m? Pie, which is broken, but soul standing. And how many times have we all been broken? How many lives have we lived where we've gone? You know what? Let me figure it out and do it better and done it. You gotta Be proud of yourself for those times, you know? And keeping your soul intact is probably one of the hardest things. So. Man, that song is one of my. I'm the most. One of the most proud. I'm the most proud about that song, especially on this album.

[E]

Do you feel you've learned more from mistakes?

[B]

I wrote a song on my first album called Hard Way, and it's. The lyric is like, I always learn the hard way. I wish I didn't write that song because maybe I spoke in it.

[E]

Yeah, you spoke.

[G]

Yeah.

[E]

There's power. They say there's power in the tongue. There's power in the pen.

[B]

Right in the pen, man. It's. I've learned a lot of things by mistake. I hope wisdom leads in my next 10. I hope I lead with wisdom.

[E]

Sure thing. That's what that song.

[B]

One of those ones. Man, that's really good. I drink mascot. I'm like, man, that's really good.

[E]

Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate. Y' all heard that right there. I mean, Miguel the man ain't gonna lie to you. You say he turned his life over.

[B]

So he ain't gonna switch my whole. You see me with the vsop. Yeah.

[E]

So hold on. Sure thing. If you be the cash, I'll be the rubber band, right? You be the match. I'll be the fuse, bro.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

He had you like that. Yeah. No, y' all were like that.

[B]

My pen was like that. How could I? Look, I'm gonna be honest with you, man. I will. I'm a dreamer. I think every. Every artist knows how to dream their emotion, you know, and they're pulling from emotion to. To make the dream real in. In their practice. And I was 19. There was no way I could experience. I could have. I never knew love like that, but I knew that I wanted love like that.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

And I knew that, you know, I was in a relationship, you know, with. With my significant other. We were. We were. I feel like even early on, we felt really, like, oh, no. Like, this is special. So I always feel that way. You know, I always. I always have that regard. It's in that song. But I didn't necessarily know what that meant when I was writing it. That was my pen.

[E]

Yeah. Cause I was like, damn.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[E]

I actually still carry my money in a rubber band, you dig? I do. I actually do. You know, a lot of times, you know, you hear artists say, you know, they get this from an inspiration, you know, a relationship or this. Something in their childhood. But you said at the time, you just wrote that you Were. I mean, obviously, you had just started with your significant other that you was with for an extended period of time. But I'm like, y', all, you felt that, like, that's what you wanted. You wanted someone that, like, I'm the fuse, you're the match. I'm the rubber, you the cash. I'm the rubber band. We're locked in. We're connected just like that. You wanted that at that young of an age.

[B]

I mean, again, like. And this is not to take away. Like, I'm not. I don't want to downplay or, like, minimize anything. That's not at all what I'm doing. I'm being real when I say, man, I was. I was 19 years old, right. I'm only now really learning new levels of love.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

And I said this more recently in another. In another conversation, another interview. I'm like, man, I'm learning how to love myself. Like, the depth of what I understand love can be is evolving. So what I was writing was aspirational. I was aspiring to have love like that. And it doesn't take away that in my life, I had someone that showed. Showed me that that's a possibility, you know? So I don't want to take away. I want to say that maybe I didn't experience it then, but I was looking for it. And I did have someone that I was like, man, maybe this could be the kind of love that we. We have, you know, 19 years old. What you know about love at 19, man?

[E]

Like, yeah, yeah, I'm marrying this girl.

[B]

Yeah. You know, and more power to anyone who does.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's.

[B]

I think it's very rare. That's what I'm saying.

[E]

Guys that been with their girlfriend since 6th, 7th grade, and through high school and through college, and they're together. I commend them for that. But more times than not, at that age, you don't really know what you want.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

You're not really developed or experienced enough. But some people. Kudos to those that.

[B]

Who have it. Who have that. Yeah, man, that's incredible also. That's lucky.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

So lucky.

[E]

Yeah. For sure, man. To find someone to. Well, I shouldn't say luck. Luck is what happened when preparation meets opportunity. But I think I look at it like this. It's easy if you are physically attracted to someone. Like, football was easy to me. But I still had to work. I had to train. I had to eat right. I had to study, so I had to do it. I had to practice. So in other words, I had to work at it.

[B]

Still had to work at it.

[E]

A lot of times in a relationship, we get the things that bring us to the relationship. You forget there's still work to be done, bro. Kee, what'd that be?

[B]

Key. That's a. That's like. That's a ball.

[E]

That's.

[B]

The.

[E]

People don't realize people.

[B]

You may show up naturally disposed, like, oh, no, this actually. There's a natural thing. Doesn't negate that. You still have to work.

[E]

You have to work.

[B]

And it also requires, like, It's a teamwork.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

It's like. So one can work, and if the.

[E]

Other'S not working, it's two people against a problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Not me against you. Cause a lot of times we think it's me against you, man.

[B]

I should have got him as a therapist. Should have got Shannon. No.

[E]

Well, I should have listened to my therapist. Had I listened to my therapist, I'd be in a better place. But I think the thing is. Is that. But I think the thing is that you don't. When you're in it, when you're living it, you don't see it.

[B]

You can't see it. It's hard.

[E]

And then when you get out of it, you're like, how did I miss that, man?

[B]

Yeah. It's so true. In retrospect, it's so easy to kind of identify.

[E]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

You know what? I wasn't putting in the work here again, the second. Yeah, it's definitely one of those ones where I. I can see in the songwriting I was aspiring for. I was aspiring for. It was. It was an aspirational thing. But do you remember where you were.

[E]

When you wrote that? When you were thinking about that song?

[B]

So I wrote the song. I wrote the beginnings of that song and the chorus in the car. I was live. I was leaving a. I left a. Yo. Shout out to Happy Perez. Happy Perez invited me to a session just down the street from where we are right now.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Just a few short blocks. And I go into this session, and it's for a group unknown, actually. Never really. I don't think the group ever made it out. Wow. But the A R basically was like, what are you? Who are you? You know, this is a session. It's a closed session. And I was like, oh, I'm here. I was invited by, you know, Happy Perez. He's the producer. And they're like, we're sorry. We don't have you here, and you can't be here. You can't be here. Happy Was like, man, don't worry, they tripping. Whatever. He was like, but I got some beats. I'm give them to you. And like, maybe we can link later on the week. Wow. Gave me a beat. CD. This is back when CDs were a thing. We're a thing. Burned me a CD. I jumped in the whip. First beat that came on. Sure thing. And that chorus. Now the verse. If you beat a cash, you beat a rubber band. Beat a matcha. I will be a few. All that in the car. And I actually wrote a completely different course actually in the car. By the time I got to the crib, got my inbox out. For anyone out there who knows what an inbox is, you know what I mean? He'd been doing it for a long time. Yes. It was like the early home recording.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Kind of Pro Tools hardware interface. Went to my room and I cut it. Whole different chorus, and Happy has it somewhere. It's not nearly as good as the chorus, but I was like, I feel like it should be something else. And I rewrote the chorus, and the rest is kind of history. Wow.

[E]

Did you know, like, when you were writing this song, like, I mean, because he gave you the beat. I mean, you thought you was gonna go hang out and you, like, you couldn't be here. It's a private session, and then you go home and you listen to it on the way home, and you get home and you write it. Did you know that you had something special?

[B]

I think when the song was done, when I finished the song, I knew the song was special. I didn't know how special, Right. But I knew that there was, like a. There was a. There was something in it that felt new and cool.

[E]

Right.

[B]

You know, it just felt like, no, this feels like now, like, this is how our song should be written, you know? And. And at the time, it was like that. It was actually a very, like, forward. It was a very. In terms of the approach, it was a. It was a new approach in terms of R B.

[E]

You do realize that there are probably some women out there probably thinking that song's about them, right? You know, just so you know.

[B]

Just so you know, in many ways, like, there's. Listen, the best part about being a musician and writing songs is, like, how many people have found themselves in the details of the pin? And I think what makes that song special is those details. You can see them, and they're vibrant and, like, who doesn't want. Like, what woman doesn't want to be with Josh in the record?

[E]

That was Me. That was me.

[B]

Girl, you like. It wasn't like, oh, yeah.

[E]

It wasn't.

[B]

You know. You know, I don't know how many got slayed to that song. That it wasn't actually really meant in the way that it was written, but, you know, it just gets. It's what happens.

[E]

Is it true the record company tried to get under Usher?

[B]

So I submitted that record for Usher.

[E]

Oh, you tried to give it to him.

[B]

Yeah, man, I was a starving, you know, starving artist. I was a unknown, obscure. Grew up here in Inglewood and San Pedro and, like, didn't have connections like that. So it was a song that I was like, yeah, I'm willing to give it up if it's gonna mean getting to the next level. Yeah.

[E]

He didn't want it or that you couldn't get it to him or how did it.

[B]

What I. What I understand is, like, it was. I think he had the song for some time and he liked it, but just never. It didn't really make sense with everything else.

[E]

They were doing okay, and so he.

[B]

Never really cut it, but it worked out.

[E]

Did the art. Did your label try to give any of the other songs to artists?

[B]

No, not really. I think after that, they were like, nah, we just gonna let him rock. We gonna let him cook. We just gonna let him cook. He's a weirdo. Let him do his weird songs and, like, just do his thing.

[E]

I know Michael. Did you ever meet Michael Jackson?

[B]

No. You know, the interesting to that song? I played that song for a couple people, and there was a point where I had gotten word through my publisher at the time, and some people that I knew were kind of associated and around Michael that he had interest in. Sure thing. But I don't. I can't. I can't really confirm that. That's what I was told. It could have just been hearsay, but that would.

[E]

That would have been crazy.

[B]

That would have been amazing. That would have been a dream.

[E]

This song kind of blew up, like, on TikTok. And to hear it. So now you put this song out, you're like, I think I got something you don't really know. I mean. I mean, I'm sure there's no way that Michael Jackson thought thriller would do 100 million copies. He thought he had some good songs on there. But to go to that.

[B]

Oh, he was aiming. But I. You know, Mike was mad. He was like. He was like, no, I'm about to have the biggest and be the biggest.

[E]

Yeah. But I mean, probably at that time, what. Maybe the beatles maybe what, 15 million copies or Elvis or something like that. When you do, I mean in an era, I mean you do 15 this.

[A]

Is Colin Coward from the Colin coward podcast on Fox 1. Now you can stream your favorite live sport so you can be there live for the biggest moments. That means NFL Sundays and college football games, nascar, Major League Baseball postseason and more. With Fox one, you get it all live, edgier seat plays, high octane moments, and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Fox one we live for live streaming now.

[G]

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[C]

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[G]

Or both.

[C]

Definitely both. Like with Jango Fett's Starship, I mean, with stud blasters, seismic charges and three minifigures, your kid is going to be created creating stories until the Banthas come home. And for yourself, there's the Jango Fett's Firespray class Starship LEGO set from the Ultimate Collector series. Enjoy some Jedi Master level mindfulness during your building time. Shop now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores.

[F]

Hey, everyone.

[A]

Ed Helms here and hi, I'm Kal Penn and we're the hosts of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[F]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[B]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little Colin Firth.

[F]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett here. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audio Book Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[E]

Have that. That album is a hundred time. A hundred times platinum. Yeah, it's like, you know, you 10, 14, 15 times diamond. That's crazy. I don't know if we'll ever see another album do that.

[B]

Not likely. It's not likely. It's not likely.

[E]

But do you know, like, when you do a song, do you know, man, this a banger.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I know when there are songs that I take that back. I know when they're bangers to me.

[E]

Correct.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

I'm like, no, that's a banger. But you know, I have my taste is. That's why it's my album. I can get what I want. But some, some of them, I don't know. Honestly, like, I'll be honest with you, I have to play it for people close to me. Like Drew, right? Drew over here called Skywalker early. He walked into the session. We were also close by. He walked into the session, and he. He heard that. He was like, that's the one. And he's called it a couple times.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

All I want is you. He called come through and chill. Yeah. Skywalker. He called all the early ones quickie. He was like, that's it. That's it. Those are the ones. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not always. I'm not always key to the ones that are gonna be, like, bigger, but I do know when they're special.

[E]

So did you end up making money? You made some money for that one, huh?

[B]

We did good. We did good. I think the. I always say I got lucky. I have an audience who's really down to ride, because none of my albums are the same. And I know that I'm not, like, the obvious choice. I think that's where I built this course. We were recently invited to be scholar in Residence at nyu, and I built the course around what I've learned, not being the obvious, obvious choice, and what it really is. The course is called Speaking Chaos to Power, but it is about taking the uncertainty of the systems that are in front of us and finding ways to guide and direct them in ways that are more equitable for artists. And I think it can be applied to anything, but it's about really connecting with your audience. And I got really lucky to do that early on. And. And what my next 10, you know, is. Are about is really helping other artists do that and become not just financially free, but also have creative freedom. And to do it in parallel. I think often what we find and what. What I've seen, that I got lucky. How I feel the most lucky is that I didn't. That I got both, you know, by accident somehow, you know, And I had. And I had great people who were kind of mentoring me, you know, so what we need, I think now, especially for. For art, is to reflect the times. I think it's really important. Music was big part of the movements that we know changed the course of. You know, when you hear Nina Simone say that it's. It's important for artists to reflect the times. Like, she was actively strange.

[E]

Change gonna come. Sam Cooke, Bob Dylan's song.

[B]

Sam Cooke is the best. Like, one of the best. So. So we look at these times. It always had music and art and.

[E]

All that's part of it.

[B]

You know, what's going on. If we are really wanting the change. I think it's a holistic thing to expect the art to reflect the desire and the need that has changed. And then obviously organization and mobilizing of a lot of people. So the course is about that. And making money is one of those things that I've got to learn through a lot of mistakes that I feel like it's just teachable. It's teachable for artists. That's my next 10. My next 10 is really dedicated to, again, black, Latino, brown voices, storytellers, left a center like myself who deserve development and capital to build out their ideas so as to affect the kind of change in the systems and the change that you want to see that we deserve, the kind that we deserve. And I'm not being like. I'm not acting like I'm, you know, I'm. It's all altruistic. You know what I mean? It is for profit. You know, in the system that we live in right now, that is how we're interfacing. Maybe one day it'll be different. And I hope, if we can, we get to inspire some of those voices that maybe change the way that things work in this paradigm. But until we get there, I want to help. I want to help artists like that come from similar places that I do to get there to lock in without. Without it being at the expense of their, you know, relationships and all the things that are. That are sustained.

[E]

Is that really possible?

[B]

I think it is.

[E]

I'm talking about. Can you reach that upper? That upper, upper, upper. That Michael Jackson, Beyonce, that. I'm talking about the upper paradigm of Tom Brady, LeBron, Michael Jordan, Serena Williams. Can you reach that paradigm?

[B]

You know, I'm not there. I'm not there.

[E]

But you still sacrificed to get to where you said, okay, shadow, I'm not there, but I'm here. And I still had to sacrifice. And you said you probably should have sacrificed more because you did devote some time.

[B]

Well, I didn't say I should sacrifice more. I think what is important is, like, however I did it to get here, I could do it better. And I'm not gonna get there doing it the way that I did it before.

[E]

Okay?

[B]

So I want to believe. And maybe I'm crazy. Tell me this is a conversation we'll have to keep having. Maybe I'm crazy, but I have to believe that there's a better way, that there is a holistic way to.

[E]

That you can do it without the kind of sacrifices that it's going to take. Maybe denying a wife or denying kids Recitals or football games or soccer games or.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. What I'm saying is that it doesn't have to come at the total sacrifice of your relationship and your being whole and being real. It's gonna require sacrifice. I do think there's a better way where than I did, whereby your relationships stay intact, that you stay locked in with them and whole with all of your relationships, and that those things keep you sustainable. I think that's actually what. When I've kind of taken a break, it's the relationships with my family, my friends, those are the ones that actually really came around me and really helped bolster me.

[E]

Yeah, I think. What type of woman do you want? If you want an independent woman, you have to understand. I had someone say, shannon, do you know why movie stars marry other movie stars? I say, they like each other. He's like, yeah, that's a part of it. He said, because the other know what it's like to live in that world. So if you get. If you want a housewife, understand you're gonna have to take care of her, right? If you get an independent woman, she's gonna think independently. So the question is, if you gonna do all that, what type of woman are you going to get? Because she's gonna have to understand, and she understands. Savannah James. Aisha Curry. They understand most of the time someone that has a wife or significant other that does that, that they're not. They don't have their own. They're not working because I can't. Because I can't. Focus on me and give you.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

So, Miguel, what do you, you know, you say, I don't know.

[B]

I thought we were talking about individual shit, but.

[E]

Yeah, but I'm saying that is individual. You said you think you can do it differently this time while keeping the relationship, keeping the partner intact. Right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, all relationships. But in. In answer to. My answer to your question is, personally, I always want to be with someone who is able to dream a dream and also have their own dream. I. The one thing I cannot be, I can't be with someone who doesn't have a vision for themselves. I need someone who also has a passion and a purpose that they feel so deeply that they're on their own mission as well. So in the way that you kind of use the analogy, or the example of like an actor, maybe with an actor, because they understand that the lifestyle is going to demand time away and this and that, I think. I think at my core, I will always need to be. And I'll always be with someone who. A person who has their own vision and their own purpose and it's deeply like, believes in it and is also effective.

[E]

And so you don't understand that she's not gonna always be there for you. And if you're beck and call.

[B]

Right. But that's why it's great. I'm a Scorpio. So I'd be like, leave me alone anyway, you feel me? I need my space. You know what I'm saying?

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's me though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it kind of works out. That works out.

[E]

Let me ask you this. I've been always wanting to know. Cause I'm getting so many different answers. Screaming now. I'm sure Drake and. And Taylor Swift and the Weeknd, they cool with streaming. Yeah, they doing billion, billion, billion, billion. Where is Miguel on streaming?

[B]

Miguel? Currently, the real numbers are like 27 million a month. Every million translates to about $4,000 currently. So do the math.

[E]

That ain't no bad money.

[B]

Okay, So, I mean, I can make it work, right?

[E]

But I could make it work.

[B]

We can make it work. However, when you look at what kind of money would be made with a purchase, that's when all music is all available at $9.99 a month at all times. So we're fighting for attention. Well, streaming as it is as a paradigm devalues the art and the sacrifice the time of a lot of people, not just the artists, but the engineers, the writers, the. All of the ecosystem of really making music. So the way I see it is that streaming is not in and of itself the techno, the offering is not in and of itself a threat. The idea is fine, it's the ownership, it's the equity, it is the payout. It is the. It is the. The mechanical way that it works on behalf of the art that empowers it. That is the lifeblood of it. That is. That needs to be corrected. And personally, I think the answer really comes in somewhere in ownership, artist ownership of. And I don't have no answer to this. I'm not invested in any company. I've heard of a couple I have a lot of interest in companies like Subvert, Big Shout out to Subvert Love what they're doing. There's a couple companies out here who are looking for better alternatives whereby the artist has ownership in the company itself, Streaming and obviously their ip. It's an important issue that I think once answered, will revolutionize not just the business part, but the actual quality of the music. And until it becomes something that's owned by artists, artists owned. And there's equity there for artists at this stage of the paradigm that we live in. Because we know too much now, right? We know that we've been taken advantage of for decades, for centuries as artists when it comes to writing and ownership of masters and whatnot. And we've seen great examples of ownership and retaining ownership of masters a la Birdman. And no limit. We've seen it do really well that the only next step is for there to be an artist owned. To me, an artist owned streaming platform. When it's artist owned and protected and maintained. To me, that then gives it a whole other level of it is for us, by us, you know. And I think personally what I would love to see in the next five is for there to emerge an artist owned, not, not one artist, but a collective of artists owned streaming platform. And I think with that leverage it will. It will probably benefit the people who create the music. And that's what we deserve.

[E]

But will we ever. Will it ever be like it was in the 70s and 80s and the 90s when people actually go purchase hard copies of albums?

[B]

I hope so. You can go get my vinyl right now. S1C LA. I hope so. I think people are still. I still buy vinyl. I still buy music, you know.

[E]

Yeah, but you have to go to like, what, like one of those little specialty shops, like, right. Cause there's no more tower music. And you know, what was the other one? I forget the other name. The name they used to go. And you know, you go through it. I remember back in the 70s, you go and like, could you play this for me? And they would put it on and you listen to it like, yeah, this. Okay. Okay, I'm gonna get this bet. You know, Will it ever be a time like that again?

[B]

I think it'll be novelty. I think that version will be a novelty experience, which is dope. I still love to go to a record store and put a record on and go like, let me listen to it in headphones.

[E]

Yes. Yeah, that was bad.

[B]

It's dope. It's a dope experience. And that will be there just the same way, like people still go. Go jump on. People still go ride horses. Like, we had the car, the car replaced the horse. But the horse is still an experience, you know, and there's a market for that.

[E]

It's still something about having that physical copy of that album.

[B]

Yeah, but we are people. We like convenience, you know what I'm saying? Like, this VSOP is The product of a lot of hard work.

[E]

Correct.

[B]

And development and all of that. But you're trying to. Having that available at all times is the goal. When it's on demand, you want to have it.

[G]

You may hold it.

[E]

When we originally had it only came out E Commerce, but we didn't really start taking off until we got it in the packaging shop. The Lee's Liquors, the Total Wines, the abc. So I definitely get what you're saying. And people have made everything so convenient. That's why Amazon is what it is. Because, hey, they give it to you the same next day they might get it to you that day. You really want it.

[B]

Listen, if it's not on prime, you might just not buy it now. You know what I'm saying? Like if it's not so. So you know, there's a, there's a part of that experience that's just a reality. So I don't know that we'll ever fully go back to just hard copy. But I do think that as it affects the music, finding a way to take back the value and, and are re. Reaffirm, reestablish the value of music is something that to me is top of mind because I love this art form. This is not just my, this is not my livelihood only. I'm passionate about music. I love music and it changes. We don't do anything without music. No, there's an intro to this show with music. Yes. Every film has music. Every experience that was significant to you. Well, maybe not every, but we've got.

[E]

Plenty of memories that, well, we grew up around it. We cleaned the house on Saturday, we listened to music and the toilet would.

[B]

Never be as clean as it is if there was not music. You know what I'm saying? Like we clean different with music. So I do think that there's a, there's a big discrepancy between the real value and what it means to people in life and actually how that, how that is reflected in how we show that it's valuable. And there is a better way. It is my. I believe that that can be evolved and be more equitable for artists once there's an artist owned platform.

[E]

Right. What have you learned about the music business being in it for two decades? What have you learned about the music industry?

[B]

All of it is, you know, money is a tool and it is motivated by money. That's why I don't take things personally. You know, it's like even the Grammys. And I don't mean to remove anything from the significance of Winning a Grammy at all, having won has changed my life. So I can't wait to perform on the Grammys again, if it should ever happen, or win a Grammy, whatever. But the Grammys, any award show, all of that is still a part of a larger economic effort to make money.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

So that program that you watch when you see your favorite artists on the stage performing is really to make ad dollars crazy. The NFL.

[G]

The, the.

[B]

Every single advertisement you see on during the super bowl, they make him billions.

[E]

$7 million for 30 seconds.

[B]

So it's. This is all, this is all to say that, like, my understanding of the music business is that it's really been in the interest of the people at the top again. And in the same thinking of the conversation about the streaming platforms, it's really like, at what point are we going to take the savvy that we are accumulating over social media and the information being shared and what we've learned in history to really take ownership of our, of the, of the opportunity is to. To really be directly connected to our audience. I think plenty of them are. That's why you see Tyler, that's why you see Billy. That's why you see certain ones go cray. I mean, these are artists I love who have really tapped into their audience and really connected deeply with their audience in a way that whatever they do, wherever they go, products they make, they're locked in, you know?

[E]

Yeah, you mentioned something earlier. You said in your 40s, you want to be able to help people, young, black, brown, Latino communities. What advice been in this thing two decades. What advice are you going to impart on the youth coming up that want to do what you did?

[B]

Be your own hero. Operate by your values. If you don't know the answer, go with the best. Go with the best option and adjust. Overthinking will stunt the growth. And that's it. Live by your values. Be your own hero. Make the best decision right in front of you and adjust as necessary as needed. If you can operate from your values, you'll always get to the feeling that you're actually looking at, looking for.

[E]

This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just simply go back to Club Shay Shay profile and I'll see you there.

[A]

This is Colin Coward from the Colin coward podcast on Fox 1. Now you can stream your favorite live sports so you can be there live for the biggest moments. That means NFL Sundays and college football, football games, NASCAR major league baseball, postseason and more. With Fox one, you get it all. Live, edgier seat plays, high octane moments, and that feeling like you're right there in the action. Fox 1 We live for live streaming now.

[E]

We finally switched to T Mobile because.

[F]

With them we can be connected here and there.

[B]

Dad, the cousins in Mexico have a surprise for you.

[E]

And enjoy the gift of staying connected.

[F]

Switch and start saving today. Get four Samsung Galaxy S25 phones with Galaxy AI on us and four lines for just 25 bucks per line plus non stop talk, text and data between us and Mexico. Visit a store t mobile.com or call 1-800-T-Mobile 1-800-T-Mobile. See details@t mobile.com hi, it's Colin from.

[A]

The Colin Coward podcast. I've been around long enough to know quality when I see it, or in this case, when I taste it. Tito's handmade vodka. Good stuff. No flash, no gimmicks. Smooth, clean tasting, made the right way. Tito's made in Austin, Texas. Real attention to detail. I like to keep it simple. Tito's soda, one lime, lot of ice. Refreshing, easy. Summer, winter, spring. Totally versatile. Always works. Listen, baseball season's here. The perfect time to kick back with some Tito's. It's what I pour. You should too. Distilled and bottled by Fifth Fifth Generation Inc. Austin, Texas 40% alcohol by volume. Savor responsibly.

[E]

I'm Rodney Williams. And I'm Travis Holloway. Welcome to the Wealth Break podcast, a.

[B]

Real conversation about finance.

[E]

Let's be honest, building wealth doesn't look the same for everyone.

[B]

I feel like sometimes being broke is a cycle and that we might have.

[E]

To revisit that and we're not stopping at success stores.

[B]

What happens when. When it doesn't go right?

[E]

How do you cope with it?

[B]

Because wealth isn't just about money.

[E]

It's about creating a life where you thrive and help others do the same. Listen to the Wealth Break podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

[A]

Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money. Getting 5% cash back when I pay in 4. No fees these, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruney body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends 1231.

[B]

See paypal.com promoterms Points can be redeemed.

[A]

For cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457.