Club Shay Shay - Neil deGrasse Tyson Part 2

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Neil deGrasse Tyson Part 2

Host: Shannon Sharpe
Guest: Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson
Date: June 3, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In the second part of his conversation with Shannon Sharpe, acclaimed astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson dives into everything from planetary science, dinosaurs, and the limits of human knowledge, to the philosophy of mortality. The episode is a thought-provoking, wide-ranging, and humor-filled exploration of our place in the universe, the mysteries of life on Earth, and the quirks of human genius.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Antarctica’s Human History and Alien Test Beds

• No Human Inhabitants: Tyson clarifies that no humans have ever lived in Antarctica prior to the modern era.
  • "Not people? No. Definitely not humans? No." (03:22, Tyson)
• Lake Vostok: A subglacial, isolated lake is used as a model for alien life investigations.
  • "It's being held up as a test bed for alien evolution in water repositories on other planets … it's a record of life forms that existed back when the thing got sealed over." (03:45, Tyson)

2. Exploration: Ocean vs. Space

• Difficulties of Deep Sea vs. Space: Tyson explains that building vessels to survive deep-sea pressure is more challenging than operating in space due to increasing pressure with depth.
  • "It's much harder to build something where you stay alive under those pressures than it is to stay alive in space." (05:18, Tyson)
• Unknown Ocean Depths:
  • "We know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the surface of the ocean." (05:18, Tyson)

3. The Allure of Space vs. Earth’s Mysteries

• Bias Toward Space:
  • "Anything in space? I'm surely biased … but maybe not right? Everything in space is more interesting than everything on Earth. Right?" (06:09, Tyson)
• Space Volcanoes:
  • "This volcano on Mars is the single largest mountain in the entire solar system ... On Europa and Enceladus ... you have ice volcanoes on these moons. Wow. Ice volcanoes." (06:25–07:10, Tyson)

4. Map Distortions & Africa’s True Size

• Geography Misperceptions:
  • "Do you realize you can fit the continental United States, you can fit five of them into Africa. Five." (08:21, Tyson)
  • "Africa can fit five of those (continental US), so yeah, it's not that Africa is too small or large, it's that North America and Europe are distortedly large relative to Africa." (08:22–08:50, Tyson)

5. Commercial Space Race

• Musk vs. Bezos:
  • "They're doing different things. Bezos ... you go up and come back ... Elon can actually put things into orbit. Two very different spacecraft." (09:05, Tyson)
• True Space Travel Perspective:
  • "As an astrophysicist I cannot embrace that as space ... Space. Send me somewhere. Moon, Mars, beyond. Yeah. Then I'll go." (10:27–10:35, Tyson)

6. Mars Colonization & Human Motivation

• Skepticism Toward Living on Mars:
  • "Antarctica is warmer, warmer, balmier and wetter than any place on Mars, yet nobody's lining up to build condos in Antarctica." (10:53, Tyson)
• One-Way Mars Missions: Tyson shares about Mars One and people's willingness (or not) to leave Earth forever.
  • "There was already a company called Mars One that would get people to sign up for one-way trips to Mars ..." (11:32, Tyson)

Notable Moment:

Host jokes about a Mars applicant’s wife being "over him" for wanting to leave:

• "What does your wife think about this? And he said, oh, she's encouraging it ... I didn't want to give him a lesson in relationships." (12:39–12:44, Tyson)

---

7. Genius, Focus, and Neurodiversity

• Autism & Intellectual Achievement:
  • "If you're on the spectrum ... you could focus like it's nobody's business ... Whereas on the spectrum, yeah, you ... could be in the lab and forget to pee." (13:58–14:05, Tyson)
• Einstein’s Empathy & Social Awareness:
  • "He noticed some similarities between the plight of Jews in Hitler Europe and the plight of black people in America and made these correlations. You have to be aware of the human condition ... I just haven't seen it [with] deeper, autistically affected people." (19:36, Tyson)

8. On Mortality, Meaning, and Living Well

• Rejects Living Forever:
  • "In life, I don't search for meaning ... I manufacture meaning in life." (22:17, Tyson)
• Pass it Forward Philosophy:
  • "If someone does me a favor and says, when are you going to pay me back? I say, I'm not. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pass it forward so that rivers of favors move through civilization." (22:59–23:21, Tyson)
• Death Gives Life Meaning:
  • "If knowing I'm going to die boosts the meaning of my life in my remaining days, then mathematically, living forever is to live a life of no meaning at all." (26:56, Tyson)
• Favorite Quotes:
  • Desiderata: "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, and you have a right to be here." (29:10–29:20, Tyson)
  • Horace Mann: "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. That's my credo." (30:00–30:25, Tyson)

---

9. Science Explained Simply

• Sun’s Color:
  • "White." (30:38, Tyson)
  • "When do you look at the sun? When it's low on the horizon... the atmosphere filters out the blue... leaving red, orange, yellow, that's why sunsets are red, orange, yellow." (30:41–31:30, Tyson)
• Gravity’s Necessity:
  • "If you put Earth's atmosphere on the moon, it would evaporate away ... Earth's gravity is enough." (32:26–32:49, Tyson)
• Dinosaur Extinction:
  • "Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago ... and then they found iridium in that layer ... that's the signature of a metallic asteroid." (33:35–34:19, Tyson)
• Dinosaurs Worldwide:
  • "Yes they walked the entire Earth." (34:42, Tyson)
• Crater Evidence:
  • "When was that circle made? 65 million years ago. Holy shit. Ain't that something?" (36:16, Tyson)

---

10. Evolutionary Marvels

• Impressive Creatures:
  • "I've always been impressed with snakes ... It can chase you down the street ... eat something five times bigger than its head ... stalk its prey with infrared rays." (42:20–43:14, Tyson)
• Survival of Roaches & Insect Decline:
  • "Roaches are at an all-time low. When's the last time you saw a roach?" (43:59–44:09, Tyson)
• Insect Ecosystem Importance:
  • "Some insects pollinate flowers... mosquitoes and gnats are food for bats ... knock something out of the food chain, it's gonna impact something else." (44:46–45:22, Tyson)
• Intelligence in Animals:
  • Bird brain-to-body ratio higher than mammals, magpie intelligence, and some ants surpass even humans in brain-to-body ratio.
  • "There’s certain mid-sized birds that have a higher brain to body weight ratio than we do ... certain species of ants have the highest." (46:39–48:34, Tyson)

---

11. Modern Science Skepticism & Vaccines

• Vaccine Hesitancy:
  • "All I can say is, whatever it is, we ain’t ready for it. So we still have anti-vaxxers running around ... I don’t trust scientists. I saw a YouTube video ..." (50:08, Tyson)
• Science Extends Life:
  • "Science matters here ... we've doubled the life expectancy with antibiotics, vaccines, and sanitation, the three biggest forces operating on our longevity." (51:14, Tyson)

---

12. Public Engagement & Clarity in Science

• Responding to Terrence Howard’s Math Claims:
  • Tyson discusses his online exchange with Terrence Howard, breaking down Howard's flawed math, and clarifies his approach as firm but fair.
  • "He sends me this 30 page document ... One Times One Equals Two ... I went line by line and I replied ... it goes viral ..." (53:12–55:17, Tyson)
• Correcting James Cameron:
  • "It was the wrong sky in Titanic ... We know the day, the date, the time, the weather ... There's only one sky she should have been seeing, and it was the wrong sky." (55:54–56:16, Tyson)

---

13. Seeing the World Through a Physics Lens—Including Sports

• Physics of Football vs. Baseball & Basketball:
  • "There are people who want to harm the quarterback ... He needs to throw it to where his receiver will be when the ball gets there ... That's much more impressive." (61:49–62:12, Tyson)
• On the Difficulty of Sports:
  • "To hit the [baseball] ball ... It's hard to hit the ball. Right. You didn't ask me about hitting the ball. You just said throwing." (62:44–63:29, Tyson)
  • "Golf? You can't get me to respect golf in the face of those facts. I'm sorry. I can't." (65:00, Tyson)

---

14. Personal Reflections and Upbringing

• Tyson’s Childhood & Focus:
  • "My brother ... they put in Boy Scouts. My sister ... Girl Scouts. They didn’t put me in anything as a kid. I was very focused. I had hobbies." (68:23–68:34, Tyson)
  • Inspired to be an astrophysicist since age 9 after visiting the Hayden Planetarium. (68:55–69:05)
• Balancing Sports and Science:
  • Played sports due to social expectations, became a skilled athlete and later a ballet and wrestling performer. (69:07–71:03)
• Family:
  • Siblings went into other fields—art and business. (71:51–72:10)

---

15. On Generational Intelligence and Technology

• IQ Over Time & Generational Change:
  • "IQ scores have been going up, but they think that was for a different reason ... I don't think whatever we declare is what makes someone smart. It could be different for a different generation." (72:23–73:03, Tyson)
• Impact of the Internet:
  • Shares a story where someone fact-checked him in real time with ChatGPT.
  • "He asked me, neil, when have aliens visited us? ... I asked ChatGPT how you would answer that question. And I'm comparing what you're saying ..." (73:29–74:07, Tyson)

---

16. On Aging and the Passage of Time

• Perception of Aging:
  • Aging is relative and time feels faster as you get older, but physically, "timers" in the body do not change. (74:11–74:36)
  • Tyson humorously reflects on reaching elder status at holiday gatherings. (74:35–74:52)

---

Notable Quotes

• "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. That's my credo." — Neil deGrasse Tyson (30:00)
• "If knowing I'm going to die boosts the meaning of my life in my remaining days, then mathematically, living forever is to live a life of no meaning at all." — Neil deGrasse Tyson (26:56)
• "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, and you have a right to be here." — Neil deGrasse Tyson quoting Desiderata (29:10)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Antarctica & Lake Vostok: 02:43–04:15
• Deep Sea vs. Space Exploration: 04:15–05:42
• Space, Volcanoes, and Map Distortion: 06:09–08:50
• Musk, Bezos & Commercial Spaceflight: 08:50–10:35
• Mars Colonization Debate: 10:35–13:31
• Genius and Neurodiversity: 13:31–19:16
• Einstein & Empathy: 19:16–20:56
• On Life’s Meaning & Mortality: 21:38–26:56
• Dinosaurs & Mass Extinction: 33:01–36:16
• Insect Decline & Ecosystem: 43:29–45:22
• Vaccines, Science Skepticism: 50:08–52:37
• Terrence Howard Math Story: 52:37–55:50
• Correcting Hollywood Science: 55:50–56:16
• Physics in Sports: 61:23–66:03
• Tyson’s Upbringing and Interests: 66:57–71:43
• IQ, Generational Change, Tech: 72:10–74:07
• Time & Aging Reflections: 74:07–74:52

---

Tone & Style

Tyson is witty, playful, and forthright, balancing complex science with storytelling and humor. Sharpe’s curiosity and down-to-earth style set up engaging, accessible dialogues.

---

This episode of Club Shay Shay delivers a blend of cosmic perspective, humility, and encouragement to make each day count, all driven by Dr. Tyson’s singular intellect and personality.

Transcript

[Veronica Roth]

I turned off news altogether.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait.

[Cindy Crawford]

It feels like it's trying to divide people.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We got clear facts. Maybe we could calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the Facts.

[Cal Penn]

Let's move forward from there.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

NBC News reporting for America.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. I mean, after all, you listen to this show. See [e-mail] credit card everybody knows Shaq,

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

but off camera, he's just a regular guy.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know, those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking, and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Lilly A Medicine company. What's up, y'? All? Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you. Sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color, that chill. The new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearls. Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day. Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks.

[Cal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, the Audible, and I Heart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new Audiobooks available on AUD. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway. Did people ever live in Antarctica?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No. No. So, no, there were animals there before the ice age, so the mammoth? I don't think so. I don't know. I can't answer that. But they're fossils of prehistoric animals in Antarctica before it was iced over. So.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So the possibility.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is climate. This is climate change from continental drift. Right. And that's the kind of thing that'll bring one species in, take another 10 species out. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So to the best of your estimate, no person has ever.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Not people? No. Definitely not humans? No. Wow. And Antarctica has a lake that's submerged beneath the ice. Liquid lake. It's called Lake Vostok. I think it was discovered by the Russians. I forgot how long it has not been in contact with our air or our biosphere for some huge length of time. Forgive me, I don't remember how long, but significant amount of time relative to recent evolution. Right. It's being held up as a test bed for alien evolution in water repositories on other planets. So we don't want to contaminate it with any life form that thrives today. Right. Because it's life forms. It's a record of life forms that existed back when the thing got sealed over.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Do you believe the bottom of the ocean is as fascinating as is face? It's space?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. It's just much harder to get to, really. Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What makes. What makes going down there so much more difficult than going up there because

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

do you know the atmospheric pressure around us right now?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Let's just call it one atmosphere. Yes. Numerically, it's 14.7 pounds per square inch.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is one atmosphere. Okay. When you go into space, do you know the air pressure?

[Interviewer (Host)]

No, I do not.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Zero. So what's the difference between sea level and space? Right. Is one atmosphere, you go in the ocean. Yes. Every several meters. I forgot the number is a whole extra atmosphere's worth of water pressure on top of you.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's why that submersible imploded and everybody died on it a few months ago. I forgot what the expedition was.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I know, it was in the news.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. Right. The deeper down you go, the more pressure. The more pressure you feel and the more stress your vessel is under. Yes. It's much harder to build something where you stay alive under those pressures than it is to stay alive in space. So we know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the surface of the. The ocean.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Somehow the animals finally just fine. Just be able to go down there and chill out.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's right. We didn't evolve there, so we're not capable of. And by the way, back there, this is literally where the sun don't shine. So they have pretty useless eyeballs. They have vestigial eyes, eyes that they may have had at another time, but then they didn't use them, they didn't need them. And so the sockets are still there. Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But they're just not right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Do you think we are as interested in what's down there as we are what's up there?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No. Anything in space? I'm surely biased right now. Yes, but maybe not right? Everything in space is more interesting than everything on Earth. Right? I'll give an example. Not everything, but let's say there's an eighth grade classic, kids.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. And you study volcanoes through geologists. And you come and say, I like volcanoes, right? And here's the, here's like, you know, Vesuvius and that blew up in ancient Rome. And here's. And you just go on, everybody say, wow, wow, wow. And I wait till you're done and then I come in and say, this volcano on Mars is the single largest mountain in the entire solar system. On Jupiter's moon IO is the most volcanically active place in all of our sector of the galaxy. And I'll show pictures of it. Plumes coming up, volcanoes on planets.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Not volcano. And then I win because it's a volcano in space. I got another one ready. On Europa and on Enceladus, it is so cold, but it's warm underneath. It gurgles up, punches through the ice. And you have ice volcanoes on these moons. Wow. Ice volcanoes. I got the whole class. You out of a job.

[Interviewer (Host)]

The size of Africa on the map.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Don't get me started.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Africa is bigger than what they portray on the map or they're smaller than what they portray on the map?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

On flat maps there are distortions in the north and in the south. Okay. And Africa straddles the equator.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. So on those maps, the most accurate sized things are along the equator. Okay. As you move away, things get artificially bigger because of the projection. And North America looks huge. Do you realize you can fit the continental United States, you can fit five of them into Africa. Five.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And we make a big deal of what state you're from. Oh, you're just from Africa. You're not going to take the time to learn what countries are in Africa? Like really? Yeah, you learn every state in the Union. And Africa can Fit five of those. So, yeah. So it's not that Africa is too small or large, it's that North America and Europe are distortedly large relative to Africa.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Oh, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, they're

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

in a race to get the space.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Have they called you and said, hey,

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

doc, help us out. They don't need my help.

[Interviewer (Host)]

The quickest, safest way.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They only need my help. Plus, they're doing different things. Bezos, he's got this. You go up and you come back. Right? Right. Elon can actually put things into orbit. Two very different spacecraft. Right. And Bezos is. How long is that ride? 20 minutes at most. Something like that. You don't need bathrooms on board. Unless you have bladder problems. Right. If you have bladder problems, you shouldn't be going up.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You shouldn't be going up in space.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Whereas Elon puts you into orbit, and he has a much more significant space operation going on than Bezos or Branson or, you know, the billionaire boys space race. So, yeah, I'm not eager to go into, quote, space. Right. Because to everybody who asked me that, they're talking about these going up and coming back. Right. If you shrunk Earth to the size of a schoolroom globe, I ask you, how high above that would you find the International Space Station? Just take a guess. A couple of miles from the schoolroom globe. Yeah. Okay. The space station is 4/10 of an inch above the surface. That's it. Bezos and Branson, when they send people up in their little rocket. Yeah. The thickness of two dimes above Earth's surface. If Earth were a schoolroom globe. As an astrophysicist, I cannot embrace that as space.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Space. Send me somewhere. Moon, Mars, beyond. Yeah. Then I'll go.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, Musk wants to populate Mars. You interested in that?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, yeah, provided he sends his mother first.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You're not gonna be the guinea pig.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't wanna be anybody.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Guinea pig.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. And I would go to visit. I wouldn't go to stay. Do you realize Antarctica.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Is warmer, warmer, balmier and wetter than any place on Mars, yet nobody's lining up to build condos in Antarctica.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. So what. What is this? And I guess I'm asking the wrong person, but what's the fascination about putting. Having people go to another planet or go to have people to be out of space? What is that fascination?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

To go where no man has gone before.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Oh, Star Trek, huh?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Just because you don't feel it doesn't mean others wouldn't.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You think people would actually want to live.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There was already a company called Mars one that would get people to sign up for one way trips to Mars. They went out of business because they couldn't raise money enough to do it because it's way cheaper to send somebody there one way than to bring him back. Of course. So it'd be like the old Mayflower, you know.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And I spoke with the guy, the entrepreneur. He was Dutch, by the way, which was a little surreal because the Dutch East India Trading Company came right behind Columbus to sell you stuff in the new World. So I, I spoke to him and I, I said, are people interested in doing this? Yes. There's a, like a waiting list for my podcast. We interviewed one of the people who had signed up. Yes. Kind of geeky guy.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You know my type. And I said, well, why do you want to go? He said, oh, because it's a fascinating, It's a frontier. I'd love to. And you're not coming back. You okay with it? Yeah. And I said, what does your wife think about this? And he said, oh, she's encouraging it. I didn't want to give him a lesson in relationships.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, yeah. She over you, bro.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

In that moment, I didn't want to be the one to like. But she's over him. Right, Right. Okay, so here's the thing. When the Mayflower landed in the New world. Yes. And they got off the ship. Yeah. They could breathe the air. Yes. If there's a broken part of the ship, the trees in the New World are made of wood and they could repair it. There were other human beings waiting to feed them when they landed. That was a one way trip, but the destination was very different. Yes. Than from Mars, where Martians aren't waiting to feed them. Right. They can't breathe the air. There are no trees. Not that you would repair a spaceship with wood. Right. But. So, yeah, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What is the correlation? There seems to be a correlation, or I think there's a correlation between geniuses and high functioning autism.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't think that's it. I would say, by the way, one out of six of my colleagues is probably on the spectrum. There may be a correlation, but I have an easier explanation. Okay. Okay. If you're on the spectrum.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You could focus like it's nobody's business.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because you don't have other people distracting you.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You're not showing up on podcasts. Yes. You're not hosting your own podcast. You're not the life of the party. In fact, you're not going to any party at all. At all. So another genius who might be socialized is not so focused as the unsocialized person on the spectrum. So it's easy for me to think instead that social geniuses never ascend to the highest heights they could have intellectually because they're too distracted living their life. Okay, so whereas on the spectrum, yeah, you. You could be in the lab and forget to pee. Right? Right. Your personal hygiene doesn't even come up. And now, Superhuman Shaq I keep telling

[Shaquille O'Neal]

them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep, with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Lilly, a medicine company.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. I mean, after all, you listen to this show. See [e-mail] credit card this memorial Day,

[Home Depot Advertiser]

save on appliances at the Home Depot get up to an extra thousand dollars off select top brand appliances like Frigidaire. Plus get free delivery. Serve Match Day crowd pleasers with an from an oven offering over 15 cooking modes and a fridge stocked with ice. Then let your all star dishwasher closeout cleanup in 50 minutes. Shop and save on appliances at the Home Depot. Offer valid May 14 through June 3, US only free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more. See store online for details.

[Cal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Divergent author Veronica Roth to talk about her sprawling new novel, Seek the Traitor's. It's a sci fi fantasy epic about two protagonists on opposite sides of a war and a prophecy neither of them wanted.

[Veronica Roth]

My first book was Divergent, and when that came out, like, because it was so popular, I think it attracted like mostly positivity, but the negativity I sucked in like a sponge. And I think it was like critiques of things I liked when I was like, you know, I was 23 and I wrote this book and it had all my, like, dorky little cheesy or maybe unrealistic loves in it. And I started to feel a lot of shame about those things. And so for the rest of my career, I steered away from those little things that like, make you feel pleasure when you read. But I also was like, saying no to these parts of myself that I then was like, screw it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So that's this book.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cindy Crawford]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types. And it's designed to work as a complete skincare system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains a all five of her best selling products including the amazing Youth activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping, and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that [e-mail] all right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

As a priority. Given how focused you are,

[Interviewer (Host)]

Einstein,

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

you

[Interviewer (Host)]

believe he was on the spectrum.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You know, you look back now because we didn't have that vocabulary back then, we didn't know what to call people. Plenty of people I grew up with, it's easy to retroactively declare they're on the spectrum. I don't know. I don't think he was because he had an awareness and a sensitivity to. Well, I don't want to generalize everybody on the autism spectrum. It's so. The symptoms are so varied, but in terms of seeing what people think and feel and do. When he was at Princeton.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Marian Anderson came through town. She couldn't stay in the Nassau Inn, which is the hotel. Yes. In town. He put her up. He put her up. Black opera singer.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He's written about the plight of Black people. And he noticed some similarities between the plight of Jews in Hitler Europe and the plight of black people in America and made these correlations. You have to be aware of the human condition and the interplay and the geopolitics on a level that I've not seen deeper, autistically affected people manifest. I just haven't seen it. But I don't claim to be an expert there. But yeah, it's funny that you said

[Interviewer (Host)]

that because in his famous visit to Lincoln University in 1946 to teach a physics class.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Lincoln University at HBCU. Yes, absolutely. A historically black college and university.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Historically black college. I went to one. I'm an hbcu.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Which one? Where'd you go?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Savannah State.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Is that right? Okay, cool. You recruited right out of there.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I did.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And black students and calling racism a disease of white people.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Yeah. He said that. He did, yeah. So how is it. How is for him to even know that, to say it, have the incentive, the motivation to go to an hbc?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

This is why I'm saying I don't see that when. When you're. That if you're into yourself and into your lab, you don't tend to behave that way. So I don't.

[Interviewer (Host)]

He.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He might have been an empath. Right. On that level.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Which is kind of the opposite, because he.

[Interviewer (Host)]

For him to be so brilliant and to be obviously from another country and to. And to see the plight. Just come over here and just. Just for a little while. He didn't stay. He didn't have to be here 10 years, 15, 20 years. He come for a very limited amount of time and observed. And he could see. And he observed what many say didn't. They don't even exist to this day.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He saw it immediately.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Unfortunately, you don't have to be Einstein to see it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You know, what, was that all a setup just for you to say that line, you know, See, this is. You made me sit through that whole explanation.

[Interviewer (Host)]

If you could, would you want to live forever?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No. No. Can I tell you why?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Why? You don't want to be like Methuselah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He lived to 956.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That wasn't forever.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, that's 956. I mean, it's still a long time. As a matter of fact, I got

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

892 years to go. It's a long time. It's a long time. I think it was 956.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. I think he wasn't the longest. I think somebody else lived longer than.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no. A lot of people lived in their nine hundreds. Yes. In the Bible.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. Why? You wouldn't want to be. Okay, what about 475?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Didn't I. Didn't I say I was about to explain.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay, you. I would hear this.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I would hear this one. All right. Ready? Yes. In life, I don't search for meaning as so many people do. Right. Like you might find it, you know, under a rock behind a tree.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I manufacture meaning in life. Okay. You have the power to do this. Okay. So part of me wants to, every day as is possible, lessen the suffering of others. Every day I want to learn something that I didn't know the day before. Hmm. Every day I want to have a new thought, empowered by the new knowledge I gleaned from what I learned today. If someone does me a favor and says, when are you going to pay me back? I say, I'm not. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pass it forward so that rivers of favors move through civilization. The moment you pay back a favor, it closes off and that's the end of it. Right. But if you do that favor for someone else, and they do it for someone else, oh, the favor never stops moving.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, but I'm gonna need my favor back. I'm gonna need my $500 back door.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Your $500. I will get in your sorted past.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I'll do a favor for somebody else.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't know what happened in your past. Don't involve me in your debts. Okay, so now knowledge, you're going to die. Right. Kind of puts some urgency in what you're doing today.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Absolutely.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Doesn't it?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, let me give an example. If you're going to bring flowers to a loved one, you're going to go to a florist, or are you going to go to a place and buy plastic flowers? What you gonna do?

[Interviewer (Host)]

I'll go to Flores.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wait a minute. The flowers die. Why not get plastic flowers and they live forever. You know not to get plastic flowers. Because if they live forever, there's no urgency to devote any attention to them at all today. Right. Because they're gonna be around tomorrow. Right. Whereas flowers, they'll all be dead in 10 days, right? Probably seven.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And then the smell, it's.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You are compelled to pay attention. Yes. In the seven days at most that you have that vase of flowers, knowledge of the death compels you to give of yourself to it. So look at dogs. You go out to the mailbox and come back, the dog is jumping, licking you in the face.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Like he ain't seen you in the face in weeks.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Weeks. Okay.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Absolutely.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Why is that? Wait a minute. What's that calculation to human to dog ears? It's like seven to one. Let's use seven. There's some more complex versions of that, but it's basically seven to one. Yes. Dog lived 14 years. You lived to 84. Yeah, okay, 85, something like that. All right. Did I do the math on that right? No, I didn't. 7, 14, 70. 28. You might delete. 90. Yeah, 98. Okay, fine. But around there.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Could it be that every day a dog lives is really a week? That's a 7 to 1 ratio. Right? Think about that.

[Cal Penn]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They're living an entire week of their lives in one day. So they're making their lives count. Either explicitly or implicitly. They know they're gonna die. And so to express enthusiasm and joy, in fact, I don't think we deserve dogs. Just ask yourself.

[Interviewer (Host)]

They're amazing.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Beep. Were you ever the hero your dog thought you were? No. No, no, no, no.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I'm the greatest thing it has ever known. And the same token, as they say,

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

man's best friend, which no one has ever said of cats. Okay, but if the dog only knew. Anytime I'm around cats, I feel like they're exploiting me for some reason.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Why? We think cats are sneaky. It feel like they always up to no good. They always hiding up on a sudden. Them padded feet.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I know, right?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They're sneaky.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And then they rub up where you

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

come from because they want something from you. All right, so here's my point. If knowing I'm going to die boosts the meaning of my life in my remaining days, then mathematically, living forever is to live a life of no meaning at all. Mm.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Cause we knew if it lived forever, we have no sense of urgency.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You could just do it tomorrow. What kind of hell life would that be? You're right. Not only that, the population of Earth would grow rapidly and we'd outstrip its resources, and we don't have another planet to live on.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And then we die anyway.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

We die anyway. And when you're most creative, it's when you're youngest. Yes. If we have the population where everybody's old.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, we ain't getting that done.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Nothing new is nothing new under the sun. There. You'll be living in your wealth. Yes. And it's the hungry younger folks that are trying to make a new thing in the world. And they're outnumbered thousand to one by Old people. That's not a world you want to live in. Amazing. So take kindly the council of the years. Gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Are you afraid of dying?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Don't you want to ask me where I got that quote from?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Who gave you that quote? You made it up.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I wish I did, but it's desiderata.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Desiderata.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It was a big thing back in the 70s. I had a handwritten copy in my wallet. I memorized. Go placidly amid the noise and haste, remembering what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender. Be on good terms with all persons. It's the track that has the line, somebody turned it into a song in the 1970s. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars, and you have a right to be here. It was wisdom that I didn't even know could exist when I was 12 years old. And for me it's so. It's part of how I've thought about getting old. Take kindly the counsel of the years.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But you don't fear death?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I fear.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Think about.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I fear living a life where I could have accomplished more. That would be a shame, wouldn't it?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And so I'm driven. And I want this on my tombstone. By a quote from Horace Mann, great educator from the 19th century. You've heard the name, even if you didn't.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I have heard the name.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You all know the name?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

School's named after him and everything. He was also a university president. For his farewell speech, it includes this line. I beseech you. Love that word. Nobody uses it anymore.

[Interviewer (Host)]

No.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Very 19th century. I beseech you to treasure up in your hearts these my parting words. Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. That's my credo. I don't want to live forever. Make room for the next round.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But you want to accomplish as much as you can.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. I still have a lot. I got a list I ain't done yet. Wow.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Sun color. What color is the sun?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

White.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Why it look yellow?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Because in the middle of the day, it's so bright it will burn out your eyes. So when do you look at the sun? When it's low on the horizon. When there's a lot of crap in the air, that smoke and pollen and dust. And it's what it does is it filters out the blue light. The sun gives all the colors of the spectrum. Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet. The atmosphere filters out the blue. Indigo, violet scatters it into the sky, turning the sky Blue. Right. Well, if you take red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet. Take out the blue, you're left with red, orange, yellow. Right. That's why sunsets are red, orange, yellow. That's the light that's left over if the atmosphere filtered out everything else. So. And leaving everyone to think the sun is yellow. And they draw it that way in pictures and everything. Yeah. It's a shame. But, you know, it's weird.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I'm sure you were told the same thing I was told, boy, don't look at the sun, you gonna go blind.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right? Your body is pretty good at preventing that.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes, but it'll make you blink, Hunt.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Just try not to look at the sun. Yeah, yeah. Look at the things that the sun illuminates in your life.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Mm.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Gravity.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Get used to it. It's a property of matter and energy. And I like gravity because there are times when I need it to keep me grounded. And it does. Wow.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What if? Could we exist if the Earth had the moon's gravity?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, because we'd lose our atmosphere and we'd suffocate. If you put Earth's atmosphere on the moon, it would evaporate away. Earth's gravity is enough because the particles are moving at certain speeds.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All those speeds are less than the escape velocity of the Earth. Okay. If you put this atmosphere on the moon, the gravity in the moon is not so strong. Right. They'd all just escape into space. So. No, you need at least Earth's gravity. You could do a little less, a little more, but not much less.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Did the asteroid.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Did an asteroid really kill the dinosaurs?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah, it really did. Oh, yeah. Or something else killed it and it just happened to be at the same time a Mount Everest sized rock slammed into the Earth. Okay. We have the smoke and the gun. Right. Of that incident.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So we have empirical data that says 10 million years ago, this big meteorite the size of Mount Everest.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Here you go. Ready?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago.

[Interviewer (Host)]

65. Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You look at the fossil record, the geologists tell you here it's 10 million years ago. 20, 30, 65 million years ago. One layer below that.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Dinosaurs. One layer above it. No, dinosaurs, they went extinct abruptly, maybe over a thousand years, but it's abrupt in a thing. They went extinct there. Right. What happened there? I don't know. Let's look around. Could it be volcanoes? Well, there are always volcanoes. Could it be this, could it be that? And then they found iridium in that layer of the.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Iridium is what it is.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

An element on the periodic table that is common in metallic asteroids. And it's only at that layer, not before it, not after it. How you. And it's everywhere in the world. How are you going to lay down a layer of iridium everywhere in the world at the same time?

[Interviewer (Host)]

So dinosaurs walk the entire Earth?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Host)]

There is not a place on Earth that was not inhibited by some form of. Inhabited.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes, they might have been inhibited.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Inhabited.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's a different thing.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes, inhabited.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Inhibition Island. And then they inhibited. Whatever.

[Cindy Crawford]

So

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

there might have been some areas. But there are dinosaurs in the Gobi Desert in North America, in, I assume, South America. The reason why they couldn't have gotten there. Right. And so point is, the asteroid hit. Right. Well, how do you get iridium on the other side? It hits with such energy that the whole thing vaporizes. It turns into meteor dust, goes into the stratosphere and. And cloaks earth, blocking sunlight, taking out the base of the food chain and sending a wave of extinction that percolates across the tree of life. Have a nice day.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So, so, but wait a minute. We're just inferring there was a metallic asteroid because there's just this layer, right. Some years later, some oil company drilling in the Gulf, they found this anomaly under the ocean, this wall of dense rock. And they kept following it, and it made a circle. Was it 200 miles in circumference? Some huge circle.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I said, wait a minute. When was that circle made? 65 million years ago. Holy shit. Ain't that something? And now, superhuman Shack.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

I keep telling them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep, with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it could sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Lilly, a medicine company.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. I mean, after all, you listen to this show. See [e-mail] credit card this memorial Day.

[Home Depot Advertiser]

Save on appliances at the Home Depot. Get up to an extra thousand dollars off select top brand appliances like Frigidaire plus get free delivery. Serve match day crowd pleasers with an assist from an oven offering over 15 cooking modes and a fridge stocked with ice. Then let your All Star dishwasher close out cleanup in 50 minutes. Shop and save on appliances at the Home Depot offer valid May 14th through June 3rd US only. Free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more. See store online for details.

[Cal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I'm sitting down with Wil Wheaton, who played Gordie Lachance in Stand by Me 40 years ago and now narrates Stephen King's the Body, the novella that inspired it all. We talk about what it's like to return to a story that shaped his life, channeling his memories of River Phoenix in the recording booth and and why the friendships you have at 12 might be the most important ones you'll ever have. I know Gordie Lachance. I am Gordie Lachance.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Like, I mean, even when I was

[Cal Penn]

a little kid, I was Gordy Lachance

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

when I didn't know it.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like, I never liked being told, oh wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age? Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail].

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So the iridium was the smoke, the crater was the and we know how big craters are made based on the size of the asteroid so we can tell how big the asteroid was. And that started it gave a boost to our studies of climate change where something can happen here and affect climate around the world. Wow.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What determines what determined what dinosaurs were able to fly, what dinosaurs lived in the water, what dinosaurs walked upright, what dinosaurs had for was that. Do we have any idea?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The problem is we have only one word for all of them. But they all have their own species names, right? And just like different species. T Rex. Pterodactyl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like we different. Different species, you know, can fly or walk or burrow or whatever, you know? So don't be so impressed, Right. That they had different features. Features, Right. We're mammals just the way mice are. Right. But mice will dig a hole and live in a hole. Right. I don't see you doing that, so

[Interviewer (Host)]

I might have to, though.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So here's something to contemplate. Okay. Do you remember this dinosaur? Which one? This one. Stegosaurus. That's the one with the, like, armor plates.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Go down. Okay. Do you realize that we are closer in time to the extinction of the dinosaurs than the extinction of the dinosaurs are to the extinction of Stegosaurus? So we're here. Here's the extinction of T. Rex. Okay. Here's the extinction of T. Rex. Here's the extinction of Stegosaurus. So the dinosaurs just got unlucky. Right? They were around for hundreds of millions of years and a dinosaur takes them out. This Stegosaurus went extinct for other reasons. A asteroid takes out the dinosaurs. And they'd still be here if an asteroid didn't come. But we'll be having this podcast interview. We need to put a tail through the thing.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But do we know people? Were people around at that point in time?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No. Unless you're religious. Orthodox Christian. Right. Because they will tell you I don't need to do their bidding here, but they will tell you that Noah's Ark had dinosaurs or reptiles that are of the same order as dinosaurs and that humans coexisted with dinosaurs. So if you go to the Christian parks, theme parks, there are theme rides where you ride the back of a dinosaur. And so this is what you think about the world when you don't have science.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What is the most impressive creature that's ever walked Earth? They'll crawl, flew. It could be a mammal, it can be an insect, it can be a. Whatever to your best guess.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Estimate. I've always been impressed with snakes. Let's do the same example we did with the alien.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Only two dozen people have ever seen snakes. They start testifying, you gotta believe me. There's this animal. It's just a tube. It's just a thing, but it could chase you down the street. It's got no arms and no legs, and it can move as fast as you can walk. And it's got a head that can eat something five times bigger than its head. It can dislocate its jaws and eat this. It can eat an entire egg bigger than its head? No. And it can stalk its prey with infrared rays. What the hell are you talking about? And then you get him to draw it and It'll be some stupid drawing that nobody understands. Right. It's a snake. I think snakes are. Oh. If it bites you, you die. Right? Some of them. Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Some constrict.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right. So I'm impressed what a snake can do without any arms and legs.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, help me understand roaches. Cause them jokers, they're mad. They've been around as long as the dinosaurs.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They will outlive us.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Why they didn't go extinct, why they didn't. Why did the asteroid that wipe them jokers out? It's the same thing, you know.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You can't just have your way with the Tree of Life. It's not for you to nip, tuck and edit and delete.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I was reading.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Wait, that same Tree of Life gave us roses.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I take the roses and puppy dogs. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, we made puppies, but.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But I could do without the roaches.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And the ants.

[Interviewer (Host)]

No, probably not the ants, actually.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You realize the insect population is dropping in the world. Roaches are at an all time low. When's the last time you saw a roach?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, considering where I live at, I hope I don't see one. Cause I'm gonna have a problem if I do. I saw a bunch of them when I was growing up.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Saw too many.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Do you have any friends back when you were growing up?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Do you visit them recently?

[Interviewer (Host)]

I do not.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You do not? That's bad. Okay. You know that's bad.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, go back there and see if you see any roaches. They've been on the exit. They've been on decline, huh? Yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. What happened to them?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's a mystery. Mystery to me. I think even to the insect people. Insect population has been waning.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You know what, I didn't know, doc?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's not always good. Cause some insects pollinate flowers.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. I want the bees. Bees gotta stay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Insects got their do their business.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But you know, even ants, like you said, ants, you know, they eat dead things and they help clean up. Cause you know, I used to think about like, man, why buzzards, Vultures they call them. We call them buzzards. I don't know if they're the same thing. I was like, man, why we need those? But then you understand, if something died and it was just left to go away by itself.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Plus mosquitoes and gnats are food for bats.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right. You take, you knock something out of

[Interviewer (Host)]

the food chain, something that's gonna impact something else.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's gonna impact something else. Yeah. Is it true?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Cause I don't know if this Is true. And I think it is. They said, like if you kill an ant, it will release a pheromone. And his homeboys say, man, Johnny, Johnny, Johnny got done with, got dealt with. And they come look for the body. That's why you see, like when you kill one, you see a.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't know enough about. I got experts in my museum who would know this. The American Museum of Natural History.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But I, I don't know about the ants.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But I tell you this about ants. What about it? Be smart. Well, I was taught in school that humans have the biggest brain relative to our body size. Right. Which requires a bit of arithmetic. Yeah. To be at the top of that list.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You have to weigh the brain, weigh the body. Divide those two numbers, right? Now you plot that we're at the top, okay. We don't have the biggest brain. Biggest brain is whales. Next is dolphins. Yeah. Or porpoises. Next is elephants. And we're fourth. Okay. In terms of brain to body weight ratio. Yeah, we're at the top. But only for mammals. They didn't tell me that in school.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Do you realize there's certain mid sized birds that have a higher brain to body weight ratio than we do?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Really?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. You know how they get away with that? Cause birds are light.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And they have. Bones are very fragile. Yes. Okay, so midsize, like the magpie and certain parrots.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. Heckle and Jekyll were magpies. People think they were crows. They were magpies.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh. What? Yes. You mean from. You don't mean from Dumbo?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, Heckle and Jekyll. You remember Heckle and Jekyll?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They're magpies from Dumbo. No, those are crows.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Trolls.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No.

[Interviewer (Host)]

What was the Heckle and Jekyll on?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Heckle and Jekyll.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You remember Heckle and Jekyll?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I just remember the crows. What were they from? Heckle and Jekyll.

[Interviewer (Host)]

No, Heckle and Jekyll are bagpies. They're the difference.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, I get that, but I just want to know what movie they're from.

[Interviewer (Host)]

They had. They had their own series.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

This is just like 20th century. Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. Okay. So magpies. Yeah. So have you ever seen the video of the magpie drinking? Look it up. There's a one of these sort of half liter plastic bottles of water.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The kind anybody carries around. It's sitting there in a. In a like park benches. It's sitting there on the ground. The magpie goes up to it, drinks water and the water level drops until the beak can't reach the water anymore, it comes out, goes gets a pebble, drops the pebble in, raises the water level, drinks some more, does this three or four times. What human would figure that out? So brains. They have a higher brain and body weight ratio than we do. Wow. Do you know what has the highest. Are certain species of ants.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Really?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. Which that's not hard to embrace because you've seen ants.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. They're not very big.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They're not very big, but they have some big old head ants. Yeah, there's some ants with some big old heads.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. Well, you got the bull ants. You ever seen those bull ants? They call them velvet ants. They're in the fields with bulls in the south.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You're not so. But they're called velvet ants because if you feel them, I wouldn't recommend you feel them, but they look like it's velvet. We call them bull ants, but they're called. I think the common term is the velvet ant. And they're about this big. They're big. They're a little whopper on you, doc.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I'm telling you.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So you got. So all I'm saying is if an alien came and cared about brains. Yes. They wouldn't come to us first.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Oh, like the predator.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They go to the whale.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. We would be fourth on that list.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

If they cared about brain to body weight ratio, then they go to ants first. Okay. We're not near the top of that list.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So we're not. We're not. We're not as. By your theory and recollection. And we're not as high up as we think that. As we think we are.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Our ego knows no bounds. That's all I can say.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Is there a new. Is there something that's. Look, we had Covid six years ago. Is there a. Is there something else coming down? Because every year we seem like we go through something, be it, you know, what's this? We had Zika and we had West Nile and we had Ebola and we had Covid.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All I can say is, whatever it is, we ain't ready for it. So we still have anti vaxxers running around. Yes. You know, I don't trust scientists. I saw a YouTube video, so I'm not gonna take. You know, it's like, what Just so.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, it used to be you had to get to go to school. You had to get. There are certain vaccines you had to get.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I'm tell you a story and I don't want you to ever forget this story, okay? 20,000 years ago. We're in the cave.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Do you know what the life expectancy was?

[Interviewer (Host)]

10 years? 15 years?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

30. 30. 30. 30. Half of everyone born was dead before they were 30. Wow. Fast forward to 1840. Right, 1840. That's a long time.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

From 20,000 years ago. Half of everyone born in the world was dead by the age of 34, 35. We gained five years life expectancy. Wow. And every one of them ate organic, breathed clean air.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Drank fresh water.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

There was no Pepsi Free range game. Science matters here. Right. We've doubled the life expectancy with antibiotics, vaccines, and sanitation, the three biggest forces operating on our longevity. So to come around and say, I don't need vaccines because I'm not getting sick, that's like saying, why are you using dandruff shampoo? You don't have dandruff.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Well, I don't want to get it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's my point. If you're successful, people think you don't need it. When that's what's creating the ongoing success in the first place.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Would that like when all this. When, when. When all these scientists was coming up with these. These inventions, these great inventions, antibiotics that, that, you know, all this stuff that helped polio and wiped out.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

All right, the vaccines.

[Interviewer (Host)]

The vaccines. Were that. Were they deniers back then? As much as they. As much as there were some people

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

who did not want to be vaccinated. Okay. Especially. Especially since the way they made vaccines back then, some would be from a live virus. So there was a risk. You know, there's some risk factors. Of course, there was an anti vax movement from the beginning. Nothing as organized and as effective as it is now. Right, right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So I don't even know how you want to outline. Talk about this, but Terrence Howard, you responded because you don't. You don't really respond to a whole lot of people, but I guess that's a good point.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So my mother heard Terrence Howard on npr. He had some new series coming out. It might have even been the, you know, the. Not Empire. What was it called that he was in?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, who's in Empire?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. And it was on npr. And they talked about his early childhood, and he said he loved astronomy and telescopes and the night sky. And my mother heard this, said, you should get him on your podcast. Right. Startalk podcast. Right. Because back then we were interviewing a lot of celebrities, hence the name Star Talk. Yes, that's the double meaning there. And so I said, I'll keep it in mind. And So I start doing Cosmos. Because I was on Fox.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, Cosmos was on Fox. So I started and we went to one of these Fox up fronts where you they showcase their next season's product to advertisers and so they bring all the celebs. So everybody's there. And I see Terrence Howard. I said, pleased to meet you. My mother described this to you. I said, I'd love to have you on my podcast. And he said, great, I'll send you my write up. I was like, huh? What huh? And he sends me this 30 page document titled One Times One Equals Two, where he says, all of math is wrong. He has a new math that we should use. And I thought to myself, he thought that I wanted to give him platform for this new idea that he had and rather than just talk about his geeky underbelly as a science enthusiast. So a little bit it's my fault for not knowing that that's what he was gonna send my way. He says, I felt obligated to reply. I went line by line and I replied and I kept my version of it in printout. Then he shows up on Joe Rogan and he said that I treated him badly or mean. I was mean to him. And even Joe Rogan said, are we talking about Neil DeGrasse Tyson? Because that's not my MO. That's not what I do. I'm not mean to people. And so my producer says, neil, this is going viral. You have to reply. I said, I can't reply. I don't want to reply. You got to reply. So I got my document where all my comments are on it, and I go page by page and I show the audience where I was firm with him, where I was, you know, take this, develop it here. This is not true. And your next page, that depends on that is therefore not true. So I do this, it goes viral, and it ends up drawing more views than the original posts that triggered me to do that by the prompting of my producers. So I figured, okay, my job is done here. That's all that. That's the beginning and end of that episode.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Is it really true that you told James Cameron that he depicted the wrong night sky?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah. Oh, wrong sky in the Titanic. There's Rose sitting there on the plank.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

As she's looking up is the wrong sky. I knew this instantly when I saw it. We know the day, the date, the time, the weather conditions, the longitude, the latitude of where the ship sank. There's only one sky she should have been seeing, and it was the wrong sky.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Can you enjoy anything without looking up in the sky and thinking about.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I mean.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Cause I watch a football game. I'm not a fan because I'm trying to figure out, okay, they scored a touchdown. How did they score a touchdown? How did this play game this yards, how did they sack the quarterback? Should they have done this and that? Do you watch events? Do you watch things on television? And you're looking at the surroundings more so than the event that's actually going on?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, I'm looking at everything, ingesting everything I can. As a matter of curiosity, I ingest everything. I'm watching a football game. I said, oh, the tush push. Interesting physics there. Then I hear people describe it, and it's all wrong. I had to post my own video on the tush push.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So. So what? What?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

NFL films came to my office to film me explaining the tush. Yes, because everyone got the. They thought Jalen. What's his name? Jalen hurts because they say he can squat 600 pounds. Had nothing to do with him with the tush push.

[Interviewer (Host)]

That ain't got nothing to do with

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

the moment he leaves the ground. Yeah, what he squats had nothing to do with anything because he ain't getting no push. Because what matters at that point, once he's left the ground, are the two linemen who feet are on the ground, who are pushing each butt cheek. Right? That's who you want to ask them. How much can they bench, how much they squat?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

That's what you want to know. Because they're the ones doing the pushing against earth. He's just this floating object there who happens to be holding the ball. And now superhuman Shaq, I keep telling

[Shaquille O'Neal]

them not to say that. I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep, with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it can sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Lilly, a medicine company.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

It's smart to always have a few financial goals, and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. I mean, after all, you listen to this show, see [e-mail] credit card this memorial Day.

[Home Depot Advertiser]

Save on appliances at the Home Depot get up to an extra thousand dollars off select top brand appliances like Frigidaire. Plus get free delivery. Serve match day crowd pleasers with an assist from an oven offering over 15 cooking modes and a fridge stocked with ice. Then let your All Star dishwasher close out cleanup in 50 minutes. Shop and save on appliances at the Home Depot. Offer valid May 14th through June 3rd US only. Free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more. See store online for details.

[Cal Penn]

Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I'm sitting down with Divergent author Veronica Roth to talk about her sprawling new novel, Seek the Traitor's Son. It's a sci fi fantasy epic about two protagonists on opposite sides of a war and a prophecy neither of them wanted.

[Veronica Roth]

My first book was Divergent and when that came out, like, because it was so popular, I think it attracted like mostly positivity, but the negativity I sucked in like a sponge. And I think it was like critiques of things I liked when I was like, you know, I was 23 and I wrote this book and it had all my like dorky little cheesy or maybe unrealistic loves in it. And I started to feel a lot of shame about those things. And so for the rest of my career I steered away from those little things that like make you feel pleasure when you read. But I also was like saying no to these parts of myself that I then was like, screw it. Yeah, so that's this book.

[Cal Penn]

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cindy Crawford]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types. And it's designed to work as a complete skin care system, leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen, which contains all five of her best selling products, including the amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible Reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful beauty.com.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

so I had to get set that record straight. So yeah, no, I watch it and I pay attention. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

From a physics perspective, which is more impressive, shooting a three pointer, throwing a touchdown in the NFL or a pitcher throwing a strike in mlb?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's got to be the football quarterback throwing. Cause think about it, there are people who want to harm the quarterback.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Absolutely.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

While that's happening.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, let's just start there. Then there's this spin stabilized projectile.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The football. He needs to throw it to where his receiver will be when the ball gets there. Right. He's not throwing it at his receiver. Right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

He's throwing it anticipating where you're gonna.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

The commentators never say this correctly. He threw it to this receiver. No, he threw it to where the receiver and the football would be at the same time. And the guy's got to catch it. People try to prevent him from catching it. And when he catches it, he wants to still run. Right. So.

[Interviewer (Host)]

So they prevented you from trying to

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

prevent you from pointing. There are fewer successful passes in a football game than pitchers throwing strikes.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You know you're gonna cause some confusion with this.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, no. It's hard to hit the ball. Right. You didn't ask me about hitting the ball. You just said throwing the.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Throw it.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Throwing a strike.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah. What is harder to throw a baseball? 100 miles an hour for a strike. Because you. 60ft, 6 inches from the home plate, that plate is a little bit wider than these cards. Or shooting a basketball from say 30ft out of three point shot. Or throwing that said football. I've had time. Deion Sanders said the hardest thing to do in sports is to hit a baseball. I, Bo Jackson, who played both sports,

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

you still haven't asked me about hitting the ball. You're still asking me about the pitcher.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay. What's the hardest thing to do in sports?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

To hit the ball. Here's a conversation I've wanted to like, write a play. A very short skit.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You ready?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. There's a baseball player.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And a golfer. Yes. They don't know anything about each other's sports.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And they're standing there having a conversation.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And the baseball player says, so how fast is the ball moving? When you hit it? Not at all. Well, where is it? It's right in front of me. Right, right.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay. How big is the thing you're hitting it with?

[Interviewer (Host)]

It's about maybe the size of my fist.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. It's about five times bigger than the ball itself. Are crowds cheering you on? No, they're silent.

[Interviewer (Host)]

They're silent.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Cause I have to concentrate. How about you? What do you do? How fast is the ball stationary at your feet? No, it's moving 90 miles an hour. Oh. Who threw it? A pitcher. Does he want you to hit it? No, he's doing everything he can to prevent me from hitting it. Right. Okay. And. Well, that clearly takes concentration.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Do they silence the crowd?

[Interviewer (Host)]

No.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They're screaming at the top of their lungs.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You can't get me to respect golf in the face of those facts. I'm sorry. I can't. And they were in cleats and somebody else carries their. I just can't.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Some people out there, the caddies. The caddy carried the club.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

People out there love them. Some golf. Yeah. I get. I'm there. Fine. But I don't have to. Right. Okay. Now about basketball. The rim area. Yeah. Is four times the area of a basketball.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You could take two basketballs and drop them through the rim simultaneously. Really? Yes, yes. That's why people do slam dunks. 360 slam dunks. And it doesn't have to actually be that precise. Right. Because 4. The area of this is four times the cross sectional area of a basketball.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Wow.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I show this. We have. One of my episodes is with the Harlem Globetrotter.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

And I pick up. Is he still there? Hotshot. There's a guy who's a midget who plays for them. It's called.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You gotta say little person or dwarf.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Midget's not a thing anymore.

[Interviewer (Host)]

No, no.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Interviewer (Host)]

It's a derogatory.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Even dwarf. Dwarf. No.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You can say dwarf or little person.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

It's ever.

[Interviewer (Host)]

They prefer little person, but dwarf is example.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So one of their players is a dwarf. Yeah. And he's 4 foot 5 or something like that. And so. But anyhow, so we picked him up and he had the two basketballs. And we showed that two basketballs can fit through the rim at the same time. So. Okay. So I'm saying it's easier to make the shot. That's why in basketball they score, you know, 100 points or at least 50 baskets. Right. And. But you don't score 100 runs in a baseball. Baseball game or 100 points. Football game. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And I'm gonna get you out of here. I wanna talk a little about your childhood. When did you know your brain and as a child, you were different than other kids.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I didn't think about it that way. You didn't? Not just.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But the kids thought about it. Cause the kids know, like, well, damn, Neil knows everything.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, no, because in school. Are you a. Are you smart in school? Do that means you'd get high grades? Yeah, I'd like average grades in school.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Average? You average doesn't become an astrophysicist. Average doesn't get a physics degree from Harvard or a PhD in astrophysics and all these other. These merits. That's not average.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Doc

[Interviewer (Host)]

and graduate magna suma.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, I wasn't. Any of the Latin graduations.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Oh, well.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What? I did do it. You gave me a full intro there. Yes, but you missed. I have 27 honorary doctorates.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I don't know if that was in there. No. Yeah, but don't be impressed by that. Be impressed by the fact that I sat through 27 graduations. I want that to impress you. Okay.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Did your parents know you were different? Did you. I mean, were you a normal child?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Only when it.

[Cal Penn]

Only.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Only later did I look back and say, oh, my gosh. Hmm. Here's what it is. My brother. Yes. They put in the Boy Scouts. My sister, they put in the Girl Scouts.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They didn't put me in anything as a kid. I was very focused. I had hobbies. I had. If you put me in the Boy Scouts, that would get rid of my hobbies. Right. All right. I built balsa wood, airplanes, gliders. I designed them. I just did stuff. Right. I wasn't just out in the street doing nothing.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Did you always know that you wanted

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

to be from age 9? Yes. A first visit to the Hayden Planetarium that I now serve as director of

[Interviewer (Host)]

was sports. Did you play sports?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yes. Yes, I did. Okay. And I would later conclude that I played sports and was good at it, more for the expectations of society than for my own fulfillment. Black man. Oh, don't do an astrophysics thing. We have this basketball here. Here's some sporting things. Do this and we'll give you a ride home.

[Interviewer (Host)]

And we'll give you this. Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

So I ran pretty fast, typically third fastest in my school. I was in ninth grade when I could slam dunk for the first time. Dang. Yes. I have big hands. So hold your hands. Yeah. So.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, you got hands.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Yeah. So my hands were about the same size, I think. Yep. Oh, that camera probably got here.

[Interviewer (Host)]

You got the. So you died.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, because dunking, you have to control the ball. Correct. You can't just go up and have the ball float with you. Right. So that was little benchmarks in my life. And then I wrestled. I started wrestling in high school. I was undefeated and captain of my team. And then I got to college. Then you meet corn fed boys from Iowa. That's a whole other nother right there. So I had a losing record in college. I was undefeated in high school. But I loved the sport, so I didn't care that I was, wasn't winning everything. That I cared that I, that I had an opponent and if they beat me, they were better than I was. And that's reason to try to get better yourself.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Correct.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Okay, so. And then I, in college, like I said, I continued wrestling. I was also a performing member of three different dance companies. So I also danced. So I did all of this.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah, you've lived a very fulfilling life.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

A very fulfilling life. Oh, one other thing in high school. Yes. One of my friends was ball boy for the New York Knicks. I happen to have the same size feet as Walt Frazier. Walt Frazier had a Puma contract. Yes. Would throw away his Pumas after every homestand.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

My boy went, picked them out, brought him to you. Brought them to me. I was wearing Clyde Frazier's Pumas for about a year and a half. Wow. Yeah, that was fun. The size was 12 and a half at the time.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right. So does any, does your brother, your siblings, do they have the capacity of knowledge or.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

They're not academic, if that's what you mean. Yeah, well, my brother is academic. He's an artist and also academic.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He teaches art. Okay. Yeah. And my sister is a complete sellout. She went into corporate America. Okay. She got an mba. You know, somebody's got to make the money. Right? Right. In the family.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I'm going to get you out of here on this. They say this generation of kids because it seemed like every generation was getting smarter. And it seemed like this Gen Z is gonna be the first generation. That ain't gonna happen for.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Well, IQ scores have been going up, but they think that was for a different reason.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Okay.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But I don't think whatever we declare is what makes someone smart. It could be different for a different generation. Cause they got other things, they have other values, they got other sources of entertainment. And so, no, I don't want to be entertained the way my parents were entertained.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Right.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I got my own generation of entertainment. So I'm not that guy who says, get off my Lawn, you young ripper snappers. In my day, we did it right? You guys, I'm not ever gonna be that guy. Okay? No, no.

[Interviewer (Host)]

But has the computer, the Internet, has it slowed down learning? Because now you used to have to go to the book. You had to do things up, go to the library. Yes. Now, I could just hit Chad. GPT. Tell me.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. So I was at a dinner party once. Yeah. One of these fancy ones where there's servants and things. And I'm sitting next to a guy, kind of geeky, maybe low 30s. He works in tech.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

He asked me, neil, when have aliens visited us? And so I start replying.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yeah.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

But he's not paying attention. He's looking down at his phone, and it's rude. So I said, maybe he'll look up. Maybe there's some emergency. But he kept looking down. Right. And after, like, two minutes, I said, what are you doing? He said, I asked ChatGPT how you would answer that question. And I'm comparing what you're saying to what it is. I said, how am I doing? He said, oh, you're doing fine.

[Interviewer (Host)]

If this is the last, what does time accelerate as we get older or does it slow down?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

No, time is only affected by. I mean, emotionally, psychologically, maybe, but if you put timers in you. Yeah. They're not affected by it at all. Right. And I remember when we were young, summer vacation felt so long.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

You know, and I couldn't wait to get grown.

[Interviewer (Host)]

I'm like, man, I can't wait to get grown now. I'm like, time slow down. I was just talking to my sister on the way coming over here. I said, you know what?

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Real fast.

[Interviewer (Host)]

We're the age of old people. We used to say, oh, man, I

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

found that out last November. I'm at Thanksgiving, and we usually go to the old people to say grace. And I'm looking around, I'm the old person.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes. When did that happen? Who authorized.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Who gave permission for me to be the oldest dude at the table? Yep. No. So I had to adjust to that. That was an adjustment.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Doc, thanks for coming by.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

I appreciate your time.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Neil. Guys. Tyson, thank you so much. I appreciate that. That was unbelievable. All right, thank you again, Double Barrel and the Whiskey Shop in Beverly Hills for hosting us today. With over 3,000 different types of whiskey, the Double Barrel has everything you need, and it's a full shop lounge, so you can actually try before. Before you buy. Family run and operated with locations in Calabasas, at Saddle Peak Lounge, and here in Beverly Hills, the Double Barrel and Whiskey Shop is the place for all your whiskey needs. Thank you again to the Double Barrel and Whiskey Shop for having us all my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice hustle, paid the price Wanna slice, got to roll a dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life all my life Been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, won a slice, got to roll a dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

and now Superhuman Shaq I keep telling them

[Shaquille O'Neal]

not to say that I'm no superhuman. Believe it or not, I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or OSA in adults with obesity. Moderate to severe OSA is a condition where breathing is interrupted during sleep with loud snoring, choking, gasping for air, and even daytime fatigue. Let's just say it could sound a lot like this. Sound familiar? Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Lilly A Medicine Company.

[Interviewer (Host)]

Paramount plus is now the home of all your BET favorites.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

What?

[Interviewer (Host)]

Yes. With all new episodes of Tyler Perry's Divorce.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Sisters you've always liked, a little drama,

[Interviewer (Host)]

plus a whole new world of movies like Gladiator 2. Now I will control an Empire original series like the Shy. Just make sure we protect each other. And live sports like ufc. Welcome to the history books. New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount Plus. Subscribe now.

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

Introducing Taco Bell's new Jalapeno Citrus Salsa. With bright citrus, real red jalapenos, guajillo chiles. Usually you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get the sauce to your mouth. That rolled quesadilla. Not a rolled quesadilla anymore. Now it's a sauce shovel. Taco Bell's Jalapeno Citrus Salsa. Get it with any item on the Cantina Chicken menu while it's here. Participating US Taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last contact store for availability.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through

[Neil deGrasse Tyson]

text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

Save up to 30% your first year. Visit lifelock.com iheart Terms apply.

[Cindy Crawford]

Okay. Laundry stinks. Literally. I mean, you could just keep buying new underwear. Not that I've ever done that. Or maybe sort your clothes into piles based on how re wearable or filthy they are. Or just use Arm and Hammer Deep Clean. It's made for real life stinks and stains. So even if you don't do laundry, the quote right way Deep Clean will knock it out. I mean it is from the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm and Hammer Deep Clean number one claim based on total wash loads sold.