Club Shay Shay - Wallo267 Part 1

Summary

Club Shay Shay - Wallo267 Part 1 Summary

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Club Shay Shay, NFL legend Shannon Sharpe sits down with Wallow, a multifaceted individual whose life journey encompasses overcoming incarceration, authoring a bestselling memoir, and building a successful business empire. Released on February 19, 2025, this conversation delves deep into themes of resilience, the impact of environment on personal development, and the power of relationships in business.

Wallow's Background and Memoir

Wallow begins by sharing his motivations for writing his New York Times bestselling memoir, Armed with Good Intentions. He emphasizes that his book is not a tale of unbroken success but rather a raw account of persistent losses and the relentless grind that defines an average life.

Wallow [04:44]: "The only difference between me and you is I ain't stopped. That's it. I just ain't stopped."

He attributes his perseverance to his grandmother's unwavering belief in him, which became a cornerstone of his determination to reform and succeed.

Influence of Rap and Incarceration

Shannon steers the conversation towards the prevalence of incarceration in the rap industry. Wallow provides insightful commentary on how rap serves as both an expression and a documentation of the environment from which many artists emerge. He argues that while rap doesn't inherently glorify prison, it often directs individuals toward incarceration through aggressive storytelling and the valorization of street culture.

Wallow [11:04]: "It's a map, right? But it don't glorify it because most people that rap about it never been to prison. These dudes never been to prison."

He further explains the cycle of generational incarceration within his community, illustrating how familial ties often perpetuate the cycle of imprisonment.

Experiences in Prison and Personal Transformation

Wallow provides a harrowing account of his own time in prison, describing the fear and vulnerability he felt upon entering the penitentiary system. He recounts the stark difference between his tough persona outside and the reality of his incarceration.

Wallow [15:29]: "I'm scared to death... I didn't have a lot, but I had everything."

His transformative experience in prison was catalyzed by a poignant interaction with a young girl who looked up to him, reinforcing his commitment to break the cycle of violence and retaliation.

Forgiveness and Emotional Resilience

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Wallow's journey toward forgiving the man who killed his brother. He underscores that forgiveness was not an act of weakness but a conscious choice to break free from the destructive cycle of revenge that plagues his community.

Wallow [22:59]: "I ain't built like that to go kill no black man... I'm just now, I ain't designed like that."

This act of forgiveness allowed him to focus on living for his family and community, rather than succumbing to the pressures of street justice.

Building a Business Empire: Million Dollars Worth of Game

Transitioning from personal struggles to professional achievements, Wallow discusses the inception and rapid growth of his podcast, Million Dollars Worth of Game, co-hosted with Gil. He details the strategic steps they took to monetize their content, including securing sponsorships and leveraging their social media presence.

Wallow [05:52]: "We created Million Dollars Worth of Game. It went number two in comedy on podcast on Apple and number four in all categories in like seven hours."

He highlights the importance of maintaining creative control and forming partnerships that align with their vision, ultimately leading to lucrative deals with major brands like Barstool.

The Power of Relationships in Business

Wallow emphasizes that success in business is predominantly about relationships rather than mere monetary transactions. He shares anecdotes illustrating how building and nurturing relationships have opened doors to significant opportunities and partnerships.

Wallow [70:43]: "Business is 90% about relationships. Relationships are worth more than money."

Shannon echoes this sentiment, reinforcing the idea that genuine relationships can lead to unexpected and substantial business advancements.

Challenges of Success and Maintaining Authenticity

Despite his accomplishments, Wallow candidly discusses the isolation that often accompanies success. He reflects on how increased visibility can attract opportunistic individuals and strain personal relationships, making it challenging to maintain authenticity.

Wallow [75:23]: "It's lonely at the top... People find ways to fall out with you because you start getting smart."

He stresses the importance of surrounding oneself with loyal and trustworthy individuals to navigate these challenges effectively.

Philosophical Insights and Community Impact

Throughout the conversation, Wallow imparts philosophical insights on the importance of community upliftment and the detrimental effects of ego within the black community. He advocates for providing resources and education to empower young black males, breaking the chains of generational incarceration and fostering environments conducive to personal growth.

Wallow [32:04]: "We don't bring no resources... People make money off of just criticizing us... we need to put books in their hand over tablets."

Conclusion

Shannon Sharpe wraps up the first part of the episode by highlighting Wallow's dedication to being a positive influence and an example for his community. The conversation sets the stage for the second part, promising further exploration of Wallow's impactful endeavors and his vision for a reformed and empowered black community.

Shannon Sharpe [76:53]: "This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on."

Key Takeaways

• Resilience and Perseverance: Wallow's journey underscores the power of relentless effort and the importance of not giving up despite numerous setbacks.

• Impact of Environment: The conversation highlights how one's environment, particularly within marginalized communities, can significantly influence personal trajectories.

• Role of Relationships: Building and maintaining genuine relationships is pivotal in both personal reform and business success.

• Community Empowerment: Providing resources and educational opportunities is essential for breaking cycles of incarceration and fostering community growth.

Notable Quotes

• Wallow on Perseverance: "The only difference between me and you is I ain't stopped. That's it." [04:44]

• Wallow on Rap and Prison: "It's a map, right? But it don't glorify it because most people that rap about it never been to prison." [11:04]

• Wallow on Forgiveness: "I'm just now, I ain't designed like that." [22:59]

• Wallow on Business Relationships: "Business is 90% about relationships. Relationships are worth more than money." [70:43]

• Wallow on Community Empowerment: "We need to put books in their hand over tablets." [32:04]

---

This summary encapsulates the essence of the first part of Club Shay Shay - Wallo267 Part 1, offering listeners a comprehensive overview of the profound discussions between Shannon Sharpe and Wallow. The conversation not only sheds light on personal transformation but also provides valuable insights into overcoming systemic challenges through resilience and strategic relationship-building.

Transcript

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[Shannon Sharpe]

Tip off time at my house, there are a few things that are must haves on my checklist. My fellow friends and fans. Check my favorite jersey. It is good luck. Check an iconic drink that's a fan favorite.

[Wallow]

Check.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hypnotic can turn any cocktail into an iconic creation. With its game changing color and tropical flavor, Hypnotic should be in everyone's starting five. I consider Hypnotic the point guard on my game day roster because not only is it versatile, like having it on the rocks or as a base for cocktails, it also finishes smooth. So grab a bottle of Hypnotic and make your next basketball watch party iconic. Enjoy the vibrant taste with friends and turn every game into a memorable celebration. Hypnotic where every sip is a slam dunk. Hypnotic Liqueur Bardstown, Kentucky 17% alcohol by volume Hypnotic reminds you to think wisely. Drink wisely.

[Wallow]

Let me call my mom. Man, this is gonna be deep.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Man, how you know she ain't busy?

[Wallow]

She be ready. Hey Wild. What's up mom? Look, you know him Shannon yes ma'am how you doing?

[Shannon Sharpe]

I'm doing amazing.

[DraftKings Representative]

How are you?

[Wallow]

Why you put your sexy voice so I told you when I be calling you. You did that with Deion. Don't do that. Don't do that. You did that with prime. So you tell me. Hey, Shannon. All my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price Want a got to roll the dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life all my life been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price Wanna slice got to roll a dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life.

[DraftKings Representative]

Hello.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Welcome to another episode of Club Shay Shay. I am your host, Shannon. Sharp guy that's stopping by for conversation on the drink today. New York Times bestselling authority. A highly sought after motivational speaker. A revered culture advisor for YouTube. A role model, a mentor, community leader for millions. One of the most influential, successful, passionate media personalities on the Internet. A global inspiration. A multi hyphenated marketer, activist, thought leader, humanitarian, orator, entrepreneur and entertainer. Natural phenomenon, a gift to the world. Top rated podcaster. He was named on the Hollywood Reporter's most powerful people in podcasting. Co host of the wildly popular million dollars worth of game. The son of Philadelphia. He lives by the model. No one can stop you but you. Here he is. Wallow.

[Wallow]

How you be my brother? I'm good, bro. How you doing? It was a hell of an introduction. Damn that introduction. I'm like, we talking about that?

[Shannon Sharpe]

That me or are you talking about somebody else sitting down here? Yeah, Wallow. Thanks for pulling up the club shisha, man. You know, you have your own thing and I know you're busy, so you're taking time out of your day to sit down and chop it up with me. So I greatly appreciate it, man. How you doing, bro?

[Wallow]

I'm doing great, man. I'm doing outstanding.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Better than that. Better than good. Great. Better than outstanding.

[Wallow]

Outstanding.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Outstanding.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You want to take.

[Wallow]

Oh, no, I don't drink.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You don't drink?

[Wallow]

No, I don't drink and smoke. None of that. You could drink. Take a drink of that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I don't drink. One topical. I don't want to have to go to the bathroom and take a break.

[Wallow]

You're gonna take that and drink some. It doesn't company. You gonna drink some of that. But that's another story.

[Shannon Sharpe]

First of all, congratulations on being on the New York Times bestseller list. Memoir. Armed with good intentions. What made you decide to write a book?

[Wallow]

You know, everybody feel as though when you get there in life, or you, you. You have a moment where as though success come. Everybody say, oh, man, you just perfect your life better than mine. My life ain't better than yours. The only thing I wanted to show in the book was that armed with good intentions is filled with a bunch of losses. A loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss. That's the average life. But I think a lot of times people don't understand. The only thing different between me and you is I ain't stopped. That's it. I just ain't stopped. Even in the darkest moments, I said, I got to get back up. I got to figure it out. When I'm sitting in the cell, I'm like, when I get out, I got to do better. You know what I mean? And that was my whole thing. Like, I didn't. One of the main reasons I didn't stop, I wanted to get out of jail and show my grandmom that I could do right before she leave this earth. Cause she always seen me do wrong, and she always believed in me. She always said, you gonna get it. You gonna figure it out. You gonna figure. And she. You know, her whole thing was like, you can't do wrong, right. You need to start doing right, Right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow.

[Wallow]

And so later on in life, it catch you. Cause all she would tell me was that nanny would tell me lowest people. She'd tell me, boy, I came to Philadelphia with two kids and $10. I got my house in 1963. I worked every day. I couldn't even afford. She said I couldn't afford a refrigerator. But I got my other stuff. So Father Washington from the church, he signed. So I gave me a refrigerator. I worked every day. I never. I never took a day off. And by 1978, I owned my house. Like, you come from some.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You come from some humble beginning.

[Wallow]

You come from. You come from a good. These genes of mine. And I always seen a grind, you know, to the day, even though I take care of things. But it's like she said, baby, she tell me from jail, ain't nothing ever get cut off in this house. Wow. You know better, you know, right? But everything that she's telling me, she's outnumbered with the street culture. So I'm, you know, nanny, boy, you. She's seeing me, boy, you could do better. And I remember I used to lie to her when I was in prison. I used to tell her all the time. She used to be like, listen, I ain't gonna be here when you get back, baby. Cause I would never tell her how much time I was doing. I would tell her, I'm coming home every year. And she'd be like, I ain't gonna be here when you get back, baby. And I was like, nanny, I'm gonna be there. I'm like, nanny, I'll be there. I'll be there next year, next year. She said, you told me next year three years ago. Cause I'm sitting here thinking. I'm sitting here thinking that Nanny wasn't as swift as she is. But I learned later she was swift. But I just wanted to get out and show her that I could do good in life before she expired, before she leave, because everything she told me she was right about. And I wanted her to know that she 90 years old now. Wow.

[Shannon Sharpe]

When you're writing this memoir, did you have any idea that it would end up on the New York Times bestselling list?

[Wallow]

I never had a doubt. I never had a doubt. And the reason I never had a doubt was because you don't have a lot of transparency in things in these days. You have somebody write a.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Have a book out or whatever.

[Wallow]

But it don't be the raw them. It don't be. It don't be coming from an aspect of. I'm going. Just tell the truth about what I got going on, whether you like it or not, because everything is perfect. My life ain't perfect. Your life ain't perfect. Life ain't perfect.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Correct.

[Wallow]

So I was like, you know, I always felt that. And it wasn't just about the book. It's the work that come after the book come out. It's the going to all, the shout out to all. All. Listen. Shout out to all the black bookstores out there. It was a man. Let me tell you something, Shannon. When I tell you they had my back, you know, wherever it was, Baldwin & Co. In New Orleans, wherever it was, Uncle Bobby's in Philadelphia, Malik Books in LA, Mahogany Books in D.C. the list goes on and on. Kendrickson down in Houston, I think we forgot about that. A lot of times we forget about reading, but there's a lot of strong black bookstores out there that really helped us. So I want to shout out to them your local black bookstore, because they supported me in a major way.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You mentioned earlier, it says a lot about life is lost, lost, lost. And only in the song all we do is win, win, win. Is that true?

[Wallow]

Only in the song that's fake.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, but you have to. And so is that what you wanted your story to.

[DraftKings Representative]

That's.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do you think that's why your story resonates, because of what you've gone through. And a lot of other people have gone through similar things. Maybe they didn't go to prison, but they've suffered a lot of losses, but somehow found a way to turn it around and get some wins.

[Wallow]

And is that. And it's the connection of that everything. Everything. Like you might ain't see the small, the upbringing of the losses, but since I came home from prison, I showed you 37 years old, 37 year old man getting out of prison in my grandma middle room. I make videos out of nanny middle room. You know what I'm saying? So it was like. And the only reason I could. I could make parole to nanny middle room. Rest in peace to my aunt Ruby. That was my baby, she. She had a heart attack. She died in that room. So I was able to make parole there. And. And I showed you my videos. I wasn't perfect. I showed you living in nanny house. I showed you running down the street. I showed you on the subway, the bus. You seen me. Just most of it wasn't all perfect, but it was me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

There were a lot of rappers that gone served time. Why do you think that's such a common thing in the rap industry?

[Wallow]

In our community, rap has always been an expression of the environment. A lot of times, rap was an escape for us growing up. You know, it changed a lot growing up. It was a, you know, personal expression. It was a documenting of the environment that we come from. A lot of people was storytellers of what they seen. We didn't. We. We didn't really do this. You know, Nas never did what he's taught. He. But he talked about a lot of people ain't do this. As you can see, Ice Cube was smart, Dre was smart. These dudes were smart. But they just talked about. I think in rap, it became a challenging sport, a violent challenge in sport to the point of where it's dope. If I say something. Oh yeah, you really. That I'm a challenge. I'm gonna see if you really a kid. I'm gonna see. Oh, man, we gotta die about this shit. So that's what came about. And I think a lot of times there's a lot of aggression that come with it. And sometimes we speak our own. We speak our own fate. And, you know, and some people talk about dying like it's cool. Like on the aspect of, like, when I die, you know, I make sure y'all so, you know, power in the tongue. Yes, power in the tongue. And we got to live out the rap sometime.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do you feel like rap glorifies prison?

[Wallow]

You know what's crazy? It don't glorify prison. I'm not going to say it all the way because it definitely, it definitely could teach you how to get to prison. It's definitely a directory, you know what I mean? It's definitely a directory.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's a map, huh? It's a how to guy.

[Wallow]

It's a map, right? But it don't glorify it because most people that rap about it never been to prison. These dudes never been to prison. So it's like, I ain't gonna say glory, but it definitely direct you to a cell.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But why don't you think that guys have learned? Because you've seen guys that have gone there learn from their mistakes and not try to go back. But you see these young guys, as you mentioned, they try to be like. And they talk about things they don't know anything about. And they feel like they need to do something in order to get that for real, that cachet. Like, I'm really about this life.

[Wallow]

You know what it is? I believe that when you young, you was young, I was young. You don't believe nothing that anybody older tell you because you think they disconnected from the reality of life as it is now. Not knowing it was once a reality of life that they was living in themselves when they was younger. So they're just trying to share, you know, if you tell me, man, don't go down that block. It's a hole right there in the ground, man, I can get around that hole. So it's hard sometimes when you're young because we did the same thing.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

We just didn't do it to the level of maybe violence or stupidity that some people do it today. But I just think it's hard for people to hear it. And they think it's not going to be me. Yeah, wallow, you did 20. But oh gee, that ain't gonna be me. I'm smarter than that. What you gonna do?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right?

[Wallow]

You know what I mean? So until they get there and then I'm. Now I'm talking to em on their phone. Cause they uncle called me, yo, he called Wallow, man. You was right. Oh, so it took you to get 30 years for you to be right. You still got it. You still got a smart.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Why you couldn't learn from Wallow?

[DraftKings Representative]

Experience.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Why did you have to go experience it for? He already did it. He already told you the path that you was Traveling down where was gonna land you. But you ain't wanna hear that.

[Wallow]

And you gotta think about this. The street game is a game. It's a game, okay? If you play Monopoly, how many people could win? Probably one. If you become an athlete of a game, how many of y'all really gonna go to the NFL? How many of y'all really gonna go to the NBA? How many y'all? Do you know how many people play basketball in America? And how many people is in the league? It's not a lot, right? How many people is in football? It's not a lot. How many people? So you gotta think about this. It's a game that majority of the people lose. And the reality is, like, I always tell people, this is me from me being in prison. You show me 10 dudes in a gang, or you show me 10 dudes that's from a corner. You show me 10 dudes, I'm gonna show you seven dudes that's gonna tell on them anyway. So the mask don't mean nothing. None of this. All this stuff is Cap. Everything that we thought it was is Cat. Because we live in a world where everybody is. So they choosing them first. Do you think Lil Bobby is gonna go to jail? When they ready to give him 15, 20, whatever. And he never been to jail before. You think he leaving Keisha with that nice little, sexy, beautiful body? You think he leaving her and his mom gonna come in that interrogation room? Bobby, you better tell what they done. We see it all the time, but we think, my homies ain't going to tell.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That ain't going to be me.

[Wallow]

Your homies going to tell on you? They going to tell.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do you think?

[Wallow]

Like, what.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What about, you know, they used to have this show. I think it was called Scared Straight.

[Wallow]

Yeah, that was my show.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, we going to take you because we see where you guys are headed. I mean, a lot of you guys are in alternative schools or you in juvie. And so we're going to show you where you're headed. This is the recipe that you're cooking up right now is going to lead to this perfect dish right here. So we're gonna give you an opportunity to see where you don't wanna be. Do you think they think it's cool to be in prison? You said a lot of these guys that rap about it ain't never been there.

[Wallow]

No. You know what's crazy? I'm not even gonna hold you, and I'm gonna just talk about me growing up. Me growing up. I seen some vicious. Do you remember Blood In, Blood Out. You remember the penitentiary movie? I've seen some vicious movies. I seen it on TVs and all that stuff. But I thought I was smart enough. I don't think a lot of people think they gonna make it there, right? So until you make it there and you like me, I get there and I'm like, I get to prison and I. You know, when that. When that big gate closed behind me and I'm on that bus, I'm praying to every guy that I could think of, like, please help me, Please. Please don't let these people take me. They don't take my innocence. Please.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right?

[Wallow]

I'm scared to death because, you know, I seen. You know, when I walk through the hallway first after, they tell me, as I get out the shower, dude, tell them, wash it up, the shower, like a minute. Get up out of there, wash them balls. Get that crabs and lights up. Off. You get up, throw your stuff or you get your little box. And ladies say, in case of emergency, where you want your body sent? I'm like, what type of shit? I didn't.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought I just happened to do some time. I ain't talking about no diet.

[Wallow]

I'm a juvenile that just committed an adult crime and they certify me as adult. Well, why we gotta die? Like, what's going on? Why I gotta die? Please don't let. Like, could you call my mom and let me get out? She peeped the fear in my eyes. And she said. She reworded the word no, baby, like, in case of a. She said baby to me too. She's peeped that I'm really a kid. She like, in case. If anything happened. Who do you want us to call? Like, emerging your health. And then I grabbed that box. I went in that hallway. Greatest floor, prison. I seen the biggest black man I ever seen. He'll make you look like a midget. He was so big. It was like he was lifting weights in places. I didn't know you could lift weights. He was so big, coming out the joint with a tank top on. And when I seen him, it's like, he coming. I look down at the ground like, oh, my God, he gonna get me.

[DraftKings Representative]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

Cause I'm not. I'm not one of these dudes out here that's talking. Like, I thought my ass was on the line when I went to prison. I was scared, right? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not telling you Like I was tough, all that tough shit that I threw, I knew and I thought I was on the street, that shit went out the way when I got to the penitentiary. Cause I'm like, somebody gonna get. I always thought that somebody was gonna get me. And then now you start, you realize that you're not doing days, you're doing years, you're doing decades. It get real. Oh that get real.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But is it, is it the allure that got you into it? Was it the allure of fast money, quick money? Was it a lifestyle that you wanted to have that you weren't willing to go, say work a fast food job or. And work your way up? What was it about that life that attracted wallow to it?

[Wallow]

Because when I grew up, I realized quick that America respect the successful criminal. So when I'm sitting on the steps, Shannon and I see Mike pull up with the bins, the gold chain on, the music blasting. And when he come up to get the most beautiful. He pulling up in his bins to get the most beautifulest girl in the neighborhood. She's the most beautifulest girl in the neighborhood. When he pull up, I noticed that. I ain't just noticing, I ain't watching him, I'm watching Ms. Jackson, Ms. Brown, Ms. Green. You know what they saying to him? Hey baby. I'm like, oh shit. And then as the girl get in the car, they all speakin to her, hey ma'am. But when I see Mr. Mr. Mr. James come home from work and he walking down the street, he's a plumber, he all dirty, don't nobody speak to him. Ms. Brown, Ms. Jackson, Ms. They don't speak to him. This in the 80s. It's showtime, baby. I'm talking about, this is, I'm talking about. I didn't see Mr. James name on the marquee. I seen the dude with the Ben's name on the marquee. The lights is shining. I'm talking about, this is prime time, baby. He got the chain on the pinky ring, the Rolex watch on, the music blasting, ice tea high roller coming out of the bins. This shit is movie shit. I'm like, I got to be him. He's a superhero, not Mr. James.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, they speak to him. They look down on me, they look.

[Wallow]

Down on Mr. James, Mr. James, he's a hard working man in the ghettos of America. Black man. I said I gotta be him. I gots to be him.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You went viral when you broke into tears telling Lil Durk not to retaliate in King Barnsdale.

[Wallow]

You know, it was so emotional because Dirk, he said, I need you to come here. Right? He said, we could do it in Miami, whatever, but I need you to come here because I need you to talk to these. That's what he told me. He said, I need you to talk to him, Wildo. I need you to talk to him. I said, all right, I got him. And when I get there, I. I didn't know it was going to be that many. It was like 100 of them. We in the basement in Chicago, it's 100 of them. And them.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They ready to ride?

[Wallow]

Yeah. No, they just was there, you know.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay, they want to hear what you wanted to say.

[Wallow]

No, they wasn't. It wasn't even that. They didn't even know why they was there. Dirk was like, we going to do it in the hood. Okay, I want you to holler at them. Boom, boom. So I'm like, I got you. When I got there, I'm like. He like, man, listen, I need you to holler at him. It just so happened that when I'm talking to him, I understand. Cause I'm talking to a couple of them on the side, and I understand that nothing is more important in the ghetto than revenge. Revenge is king.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

Closest thing to God, because the black man is willing to die about his ego. The ego killed more black men than any other disease. Nothing killed black men more than the ego. That ego of you hit me, Shannon. People saw it. I can't let you go. You gotta die about this shit. And my mama raised me, so I grew up soft. I ain't had no structure of no father there. So I'm just emotional when I. So when I'm in there, I'm telling them I had to. It. It was emotional for me because I'm letting them know. The man that killed my brother, I forgave him. Am I a coward? Am I a punk? I don't know what that mean. But I knew that forgiving him mean that I was willing to live for my brother in an environment where we celebrate dying for somebody. I said, no, I'm going to live for my brother. My grandma, my brother, kids, my mama. I'm going to live for them because don't nobody talk about that. But I know that I'm going to just be straight up. I know that I'm not built to die right now. Because I know it's more things that I got to do. And I know I got a responsibility. That was my older brother. You think what I'm saying? So it was like I got to step up. I got to be a man. So I got to think as a man would think, not as a street, but would think that would die about his ego and leave his babies, leave his mama, you know, tear down the community about the ego. My ego wasn't built like that. I wasn't that strong to have that type of ego. I wasn't cut like that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are with all the new ways to get in on the action at DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. From the Monster slams to dishing the rock to cleaning the glass, get behind your favorite player and prop bets you can make on DraftKings, the home of the NBA player. Props Ready to place your first bet? Try betting on something simple like picking how many points your favorite player will have. Go to DraftKings Sportsbook app. Make your pick first time. Here's something special for you. New Draft king customers bet $5. Get $150 in bonus bets instantly. Take it to the right with DraftKings Sportsbook. Every point counts. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code SHANNON. That's code SHANNON for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.

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[Shannon Sharpe]

You mentioned that you had to forgive your brother's killer. How long did it take you? Because they say forgiveness is not for the person that wronged an individual. The forgiveness is for the person that's been wronged.

[Wallow]

Mamie came to see me. So my niece, she come to see me the week after her dad get killed. This the first time I meet this little girl I'm talking about, she was like five, four or five. She was like probably four or five, but she was like 50. So when she came in there, she run around the visit room, she jumped on my lap. She said, oh, will you come home? You're not. You're not leaving. You're not coming back, is you? I'm like, no, I'm not coming back. She said, I need you to take me here. She telling me all this stuff and my nephew there too. I'm just talking to him, and I'm like, damn this somebody finally counting on me. Somebody looking at me in a way I never had. Nobody looked at me. You see what I'm saying? In that way, my little brother, I was always in the penitentiary. So my little brother Jalal, we really didn't have the time. So I'm like, damn, this little person looking at me like that. She putting a lot of power and a lot of energy on me. And so I already had it in my mind. Because I'mma just tell you. I'm gonna just tell you something, Shannon. I'm not built like that to go kill no black man. I'm not built like that. I'm not designed like that. I'm not tough like that. I'm not ruthless like that. I'm not heartless like that. That's just not me. And my worst is fear. In the history of life, I don't give a how I die. I don't care what happened. But if a black man killed me, you gonna hear my scream until life end for everybody. You gonna hear my pain. You won't hear.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You're gonna.

[Wallow]

You won't. My tears is gonna flood the ghettos of America. I don't care about nothing else, but don't let me go out like that. So I said to myself, I ain't built like that. Why wouldn't you dead? Because I don't know. Listen, I don't know what happened that night, why it happened. Only thing I know is my brother got shot. He ran to my grandma's house. She opened the door, he died of her arms. I ain't built like that to see nobody else quiet like that. I ain't built like that. I ain't cut like that, Shannon. I'm just now, I ain't designed like that. Just because you hurt Nanny, I don't want to hurt your grandma. For what? If I hurt your grandma? When the shit going to stop?

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's a continuous cycle. You said that by not retaliating, it gave you the freedom to spend time with your family.

[Wallow]

When I got out of jail, right? I ain't have a lot, but I had everything. Because I remember something back in the day, in the Ghetto, we ain't had nothing, but we had each other. So we had everything. So I'm like, damn. I told her I was going to take it to these places that I ain't even know. I ain't even know. I ain't even know. I had to. I ain't even know I had to take it to him, right? Cause I ain't know these places. I just was telling her I'm in jail. She's like, you gonna take me here? Yeah, I know that. I'm just listening to her on the phone. I got you. I'm gonna take you there. So when I get there, I'm like, you ain't telling me this shit cost all this money, you know? You know, uncle on a budget. I ain't know. It said five below. I go in there, I spend $50. God damn. They said five below. I'm thinking, I'm gonna get a bunch of stuff for $5, right? So she got me in there. Mom, don't be buying all that money. I got to. I gotta. I just wanted to show up. Not just financially. I wanted to show up mentally, emotionally. I wanted to show up for them. And that was my whole thing. So it was like, bang. That was all it was about, was living for them and being able to see them. Them to see me. For me to be an example to my niece and nephew and them. And even for my grandma, like, boy, you. You could do something with yourself. Because I wanted to prove Nanny right. She always said, you special. But I'm like, special. What do you mean? Why would I be special? I'm thinking, she crazy telling me I'm special. I live in the ghetto. I didn't know you could be special coming from the ghetto.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Dirk said this mofo really dropping tears for this ish. Do you feel like he heard what you were saying? Do you feel like the guy. Not only did they listen, because a lot of times people listen to respond, but did they listen to understand what you were saying?

[Wallow]

I hollered at a lot of them. Afterwards, someone would call me. It's not about them listening. It's about conditioning. It's about environmental. You can listen to everything that I say. But a lot of time, as I'm still growing, I don't have the resources to remove you from the danger that you're up against. Every day.

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[DraftKings Representative]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Wallow]

A lot of things these young slivers, they do hear as they smart. A lot of them are smart, but their environment don't allow them to grow. Because I can't move out of this environment right here. And I know them dudes down them block. They want to kill me. I got to protect myself. I want to kill. So it's deep. We tell these kids a lot of things and all we do is criticize young black male every way possible. We criticize them as much as possible, but we don't bring no resources. You know what I mean? People make money off of just criticizing us and talking down on not just us. It's black people, but they don't got no. Okay, you criticizing us. You got all these gigantic platforms. What we doing is cool, Shannon, but you got huge media platforms where they just want to tear the people down in the black community, but they ain't coming up with no solution and they ain't bringing no funding. So I could tell these young brothers this, that and the third, but they still got to take care of their baby. They got to figure out the only way that they know. And in order to really take somebody to another level, you gotta have time, energy and resources to deprogram them so you can reprogram them. The programming was hit. The dehumanization of black people by black people was strong. This is some shit that we done. It started from when a little boy is young and he playing on the swing and he fall, he start crying, Boy, be tough.

[DraftKings Representative]

Don't cry.

[Wallow]

We're taught to ignore and bury our emotions and our feelings and our vulnerability. That's not cool. That's not tough. So all that stuff right there is a real big programming that took place by us alone. So how do we come about of that? It's going to be deep. It's going to take a lot.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How does one outgrow the environmental aspects, the constraints in which he or she is brought up in, if they're not removed from that environment because the fish is only going to get so big, if the tank is not conducive for it to grow a tree is only going to get so big if their environment is not conducive. So if you just put it. If you put a tree in a tub, it's only going to get as big as the tub allow. Now, if you take that tree out of a tub and let it grow in a 50 acre field, it can grow, it can flourish. How difficult is it to reprogram? You say reprogram so I can program in the right aspect. How difficult is it to do that?

[Wallow]

In the history of our community, the people that was able to do that, it was multiple. It was multiple. It was. It was a few. A few. Educational relocation is the greatest thing that happened to college. See, a lot of people talk. Oh, you only college. We understand that you might come out have bills, but college expose you to other cultures. See, the hood lack exposure to the world. And a lot of times you don't never think about everybody that left. Mostly everybody that left. You never really see them come back. Cause they see, they meet other towns, they go, they get relationships with people and it's just. And they go, they go and they see the world. They. The ones that come back. Most of the time, them people that go and get the education, they're the strongholds of the family. They're the ones that the family count on. Call your uncle, call your aunt. She down there. She's a doctor, she's a lawyer. She. We gotta start educating ourselves, Making sure the kids is educated, putting books in their hand over tablets. We gotta start there because I'm not gonna say we had the point of no return, but some people are just stuck and they're using that as a badge of honor. Sometimes in our hood, ignorance is a badge of honor. It's a cool thing nobody want to. You know, we can't say that about because anytime black people say things about black people, they ain't supposed to say that out loud or whatever. I don't know how that shit go. Yeah, but sometimes it's a badge of honor. Oh, I'm this. Think about it. We. We put on a pedestal. The criminals American way. The American way. At the end of the day, we love the successful criminal. We love Tony Soprano, we love Scarface, we love Michael Coolion. This is proof. The judge, the lawyer, the district attorney, the presidents, all them people, they love the movies. So the programming is deep.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How difficult is it to really break a cycle when, you know, you see a father that goes to jail, he had brothers that go to jail. And now you see a kid, the only thing that he knows is disruption, corruption. How difficult is that Walter.

[Wallow]

I'm a product of generational incarceration. My stepfather Hip, he was in Dallas Penitentiary in the 80s. Me and him were cellmates in Dallas Penitentiary by 1998. By 2005, me and my brother Steve was cellmates in Dallas Penitentiary. And there's a picture of me. It's inside of the book. Me, Hip and Steve on a visit when I was a kid. And I want. We all wound up being in that same prison. Wow. It's a cycle. Because prison is. Prison is a. You got to think about this. This. There's the ghettos of America build communities. And when I say the ghettos of America build communities, this is what happened. As we do so much crime in the inner cities of America, there are small towns in America, middle of Pennsylvania, middle of Ohio, middle of California, where, oh, population is up. Then one day, you just see this landfill. You see some construction workers come, and then a truck. These. These 18 wheelers come, bunch of them. And they start putting these new prisons together like Legos. Then the gas station, they build a gas station. Then a Walmart park up. Then a hotel pop up. We building communities. And I'm gonna tell you a story. Deep one. It was this guard named Ski. I used to go back and forth with him on the tear because he just. I used to always speak up because he'd go on people's cells when they in the yard and do checking. You ain't supposed to be nobody. I used to say little stuff. So we used to battle. One day he set me down. I go to the. To the bubble to get some legal mail. Because when you get the legal mail, you gotta sign for it. And he said something strong to me. I never forgot this. He said, come here, peoples. That's my last name. I said, what, man? What you want, man? I'm just signing for my mail. He said, look. He opened up his shirt. In between his shirt and his vest, because they had a stab poo vest, he pulled out an envelope. The envelope was folded. He opened the envelope. It was a picture. He put the picture down. So as I'm signing for my what's name, he opened legal mail. I stopped. When? Before I leave, I stopped. He said, you and the homies, man. You and the homies being sarcastic, using the word homie. You and the homies took care of you thanks to you and the homies. I'm like. I looked at the picture. It was his son standing in front of a big house with a pickup truck and a big boat there. You and the homies Got me that. Usually I have a verbal, little verbal spar, winning. But he stuck me that day. I couldn't. I was wounded. So I just walked back to the cell and sat on the bed and I said, damn, ain't me. And none of the homies never bought our mom no house. We never sent our kids to college. But you know how many kids, you know how many homes and kids is going to college that me and the homies is taking? Me and homies doing that. But it ain't going to our community. We taking care of families, we taking care of generational. Because in prisons you have. With nepotism, you got the warden. The warden brother is a security captain. His other brother is the lieutenant. His sister is the head of the medical. The other cousin is the head of the gymnasium. The other cousin is the activity director. The other cousin is the head of the workforce. And you walk inside of prison, you see 15 family members that go home every day and 15 family members that don't. That's the prison system in America. So it's deep, right? It's deep and it's going to take a lot to break that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Why is it that a lot of times that you see rappers and they rap about that they've made money, millions, and they still go back to that culture. Why can't they let that go? Why can't they escape that one?

[Wallow]

Because in the ghetto, everything is about ego. You gotta prove to the dudes, the ops or the whoever, they. Everybody want to prove to the people that they're doing better than that they still real. You mean you real. You just bought your mom a house. That's real enough. But it got to be. It got. You know, people want to prove that. I ain't no chump, I ain't no turkey. Listen, let me tell you something, man. You just rapped some songs, right? I'm talking about, you went in the studio, rap some songs. You got that publishing money, you got the, you know, a bunch of money. It depends on how your deal structure. You got all that tour money, you got 10, 15 million in the bank. I think it's about time to start being a pussy, man. I think it's about time to start being a pussy. I'm just being real because, you know, I'm not the one designed and I'm not built like that to tell you some Shannon to say be tough. No, everybody else telling you to be tough. I'm not going to tell you that. I think because all the rich people, I don't think they, they Trying to worry about what somebody's saying about them from a neighborhood that's still trying to figure out life. So I think it's cool to be. Not be that tough no more, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Master P said something last night on our live show. He said, sometimes, man, people be trying to get. Trying to get you to trick off your position. Like, you in a great position, and they get you.

[Wallow]

Oh, no, no. A lot of people fall out. They get you to crash out.

[DraftKings Representative]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Cause you said, you told them, look, you gonna finesse yourselves out of this position. Your family life. You got your family in a great situation, and you gonna let somebody finesse you out of it.

[Wallow]

But what did I tell you earlier in the interview? The ego is the number one killer of black man. It's the number one finesser out of the position. Like, Shannon, how many people say some crazy stuff about you? Just imagine if you just, you know, if you. If you. If you just reacted to everything. A lot of times, it don't even be. A lot of times it don't even be that people don't like you. It be that people can't get around you and utilize your resources and utilize you. You know, a lot of people, you see them, you might see somebody say something on the joint. I know you got a memory. You be like, they see you, Shannon, what's up? You'd be like, why you say that stuff about me, man? No, man, I was just. No, man. A lot of people just be wanting to hug Shannon. They just be wanting some love. They just be wanting to get embraced, and they don't know how to go about that. You utilize the proper channels to say, damn, Shane, I'm trying to do something with you, man. Is the time right? Is the time right? Can I get on your show? Or whatever it may be, People don't know how to do that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know what? You recently sat down with Kodak back and you had a conversation with him about his drug use. Well, let me ask you a question. How do you determine who? I mean, if they reach out, you willing to sit down and talk to anybody, chop it up, have combo with anybody that reaches out? How do you go about who you sit down and talk to and impart wisdom on?

[Wallow]

Oh, no, you can feel that. You can feel it. Because when you're doing it, you can just feel it. You can spit and, you know, I still know what's going on. You moving around. You know what's going on. And everybody with these artists is sad. Most of they. Most of their teams and management, some they got a bunch of yes men around them. A person is not. They care more about getting a check off them than this person living. These people don't be giving a about these young bloods because they don't come from it. So they don't understand it. Now, the ones that don't come from it, and they're afraid of it, cool. But if you come from it, it's your duty to put the checking on them. Like, come on, man, somebody got to be in line to check. Everybody scared. I came in some joints, I'm like, damn, everybody's scared of this. Yo, my man, what you doing, nephew? Oh, what's up? Is you doing, man? Type of drugs you using? Man, I didn't walk the rooms on people like that. Like, damn, you bigger than this, man. You know what you. You got the babies you got, and that's a lot of them. But, you know, you just feel the energy of what to tell. You know how, sir, you.

[DraftKings Representative]

You.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You talk. You kind of touched on this circle of friends. And I'm a firm believer that you have people in your corner that tell you what you need to know, not what you want to hear. Now, you said something very interesting. Because, see, if I tell you what you need to know, you gonna stop the bus, Wallo. And ask me to get off. Bro, I need that reflective shine. Cause when you walk up in the club, I'm with Wallow. They see Wallow popping bottles. Hey, I ain't Wallow, but I'm with Wallow, so I know what comes along with that. I can't ask you to. I can't tell you what's real and say Wallow. Man, you. Hey, you effing up because you gonna stop the bus and ask me to get off. And now I can't get no reflected shit.

[Wallow]

But see, Wallow is only popping pure fuel. I'm not gonna pop the bottles down. No, I'm just saying make sure you go get that official hydration drink in the fill of your sister in the Chicago sky. I'm owner.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But listen, the tropical punch, he's drinking the watermelon.

[Wallow]

Yeah, but I don't drink. I don't smoke.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But I'm saying. But you understand what I'm saying?

[Wallow]

Yes.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That if I tell you the truth, you're gonna stop the bus. You're gonna ask me to get off, and I can't go with you. You're not gonna.

[Wallow]

That's not always the time. But you know what? They gotta double back, because sometimes that don't always happen. But it need to be done because they come back when they in prison or whatever happened or somebody. They going to come back, but somebody got to do it. Somebody got to do it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Celeb. You've been. You've been to prison.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And you. Hey, you not. You weren't famous. So you in G Pop.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You got diddy and you got R. Kelly.

[Wallow]

I was in gp. I was in gp. Right, Right. But I wanted to be in PC some days because it got a little brutal in there.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I can imagine.

[Wallow]

Yeah. We wanted to slide up in PC like, it's a little. This day. Too many stabbings, man. Let me just. Y'all need. Y'all got some space back there. Y'all need somebody to move. Y'all need. Myself. I wish some days I wanted to be in PC.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How difficult. How much. How different is it for Soleil being in a situation than a regular, regular civil.

[Wallow]

I think it's different. It depends. On what? What environment you in? Federal, state? It depends. I just think I never seen nobody coming there and then have any problems. That was celebrity when I was in prison.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You had. You knew some celebs that came in there when you were in there.

[Wallow]

Yeah, some came through, but it wasn't like they wasn't on narrow level. Right. That's a. That's a mega star. People will be in there just fanning out sometime. You be shocked, man. Dudes be in jail, man. Everybody. It ain't all what the movies play out, especially if you ain't got no problem with nobody, you know, I mean, But I ain't saying somebody won't press. You be like, yo, man, I need this money. Send it to me. You know, I don't know that, you know, but do that really happen? Yeah, it happened. It happened. You get protection.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You got to get protection in that.

[Wallow]

No, I ain't saying you got to get a protection, but somebody might press you, man. Somebody might be doing life. You might come in there, you might have some. You might have had to get money. Not even on that level.

[DraftKings Representative]

Right.

[Wallow]

And then you might got to send somebody and people might gotta get some people some money. That's all. Yeah. Damn.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Let me ask you a question. Is it true Gilly started the Million Dollar Worth of Game podcast? How did you. I mean, you get out, so how did you guys. How did he have the foresight and the forethought to come up with a million dollar worth of game and say, you know what? My homie just did a bed cousin.

[Wallow]

No, this is what happened. I'm Gonna tell you what happened. When I was in the joint, he was doing a million dollars worth of game on Instagram.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay?

[Wallow]

2012, let me get y'all a million dollars worth of game. Boom. He was.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He was popping it, right?

[Wallow]

So when I get home, see, one thing about this is like this. The great thing about me and Cuz, we know our rules. I'm more the researcher, I'm more of that person. I'm more. I'm gonna get with you, cuz, when. When these people start talking and we gotta get legal involved, we gotta go sit down. Then I'm gonna call you, but I'm gonna go do that. Okay, you sit down. You do what you going to do. You did enough. You build a whole following before I came home. I'm going to add value to it because I'm one of these type of players. I'm a player like this. If your name is on the marquee, Shannon, and I'm really about you. I'm going to get your water. I'm making sure you right. Damn, what you need, man? You see how your brother came over here? I don't know who that brother was. Made sure you was right. It was no ego boy.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It ain't going to be no dude boy. I ain't doing all that.

[Wallow]

I'm just saying. See, that's your problem. That's why you gotta go back down the way. Come on, you ain't going on the road, baby. Go home. See, that's why you gotta go home. But that's the problem. I knew we had different parts to play. That's why we work so good, you know what I'm saying? So one day he already doing that on Instagram. We doing our thing. We had already had content on Instagram. Just the everyday content, riding the car, all that type of stuff. I'm up 4 o'clock in the morning. I like to read articles. I think it was on Apple. I love reading articles to get information. So it said, Spotify allocate 400 million to podcasters in the first quarter of 2019. I called him early in the morning, I said, yo, he all, man, what the. Yo, get up. Read that article. I just text you that article. Read that shit. Read it, please. Cuz he read it. So when he read it, he called me back, he said, yo, we gotta get this shit rolling. We gotta crack out the mics. Talking about podcast. Yeah, at that time, Maurice Corrette, that's my homeboy brother from another. He used to always call me like, wallow you and Gil gotta start a podcast. He'd call me and Gil, y'all gotta start a pocket. Whatever. This the first time that this dude woke up and I'm like this. He called me back and I'm like, he ain't gonna. I'm talking to him. Later, he called me back, he was like, cuz we gotta do it. Crack the mic. He gave out all that money that day. I called my homeboy, Nick Rich, graphic designer. So I need a logo. That afternoon, he had the logo. I called, I called my attorney, Shay M. Lawson. I said, shay, I need this trademarked. We get the LLC. Got anything done. Got the LLC, all that shit. Boom. April 17th, we dropped the first episode. A million dollars worth, worth a game. It went number two in comedy on podcast on Apple and number four in all categories in like seven hours. I said, we got something, baby, we got something. And we just, we just, we just started knocking. I said, cuz, this what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get a deck created and I'm gonna take all our social media and this is the business of podcasts. I'm gonna take our social media following. Cause he had a million, I had a half a million. I said, I'm gonna take our social media following. I'm gonna put that on the deck and I'm gonna tell sponsors, people that want to be sponsors, I'm gonna sell them this. If you sponsor on this show, every time we put a clip up on our page. Cause million dollars worth of game. That is gonna be a million dollars worth of game page. On Gilly and Wallow page, we're gonna tag, sponsored by Shannon Sharp. Show whatever whoever you is. He said, all right, do your thing, cuz. I said, all right, I got you. One of the first places I went was to a funeral home. I go to a funeral home because I went to this funeral, right? Boys funeral home, right? And Asia was like, she was like, she was at the funeral, license and nice looking sister. But my homie that looked like he was still living in the casket. I said, you bad. So I go there, I said, listen, I got a package for you. My sister from another mother, Mary. She hooked up the decks for me and the different entries of sponsorship, right? So I go to her, I said, listen. She said, yeah, I want to do something like this. I want you to market this joint. And this is when I'm just learning and creating my personal business of podcasting. So I said, all right, I got you. She paid me. I think she probably gave me like 20,000 for four. For four minutes, right? So a minute. This how I was selling it. I was selling minutes by. You get on each show, you get a minute worth of advertisement. Your logo gonna pop up, your number gonna pop up. Everything will pop up, and I'm gonna run it down. So she said, all right, cool. Paid me the money. I said, all right, let me go. I went and done the ad. By the time I got to the secondary, because we only do four shows a month, one a week. By the time I got to the secondary, she called me wallow. Stop. I said, what's up? She said, I ain't got enough work. I'm getting too many bodies, baby. I'm getting too many bodies. Episode. Come on. This episode of million dollars worth of game is brought to you by Boys Funeral Home. One thing about life, you're gonna die one day. And when you die, you want to be laying in the casket looking like you're living. Even though you're dead. You want to be looking like you're going to get up out of the casket. You want to be looking like, wow. I want to look like that even by the living. While you laying in the ca. I'm breaking it down. She was like, it was that next thing. Springfield Hyundai. I go to them, bang. They say, listen, we gonna give y'all 25,000amonth. Four minutes. Bet. Let's do it, baby. I'm coming back, Gil. Like I said, yeah, baby. I wasn't going off of CPMs and all that other stuff they were doing. I'm creating my own industry and business. You gotta. You gotta know your value. When you bring value, to value it, increase your value. I knew that we was valuable. I knew people. I knew people wanted. I knew they wanted brand visibility because we was cultural, right? But I also. I'm also a good partner. Whereas, though I wanted to be mutually beneficial, we doing business. I need to make sure you can take care of. Forget what you giving me, right? I. I'm not going to feel right if I know. Damn. Shannon gave us all this money, man, and we didn't do obligation. That's not business, right? So we popping it. It just kept popping, popping, popping. One day, I get the most scariest call in my life. I'm in the crib, phone ran answer number. This before, when I was answering numbers, and I ain't know what it. I mean, I ain't had no money there, right? I mean. So I said, how you doing? This is wallow, right? I said, yeah, this wallow is gilly around? I said, yeah. He said, this is about the podcast. I said, all right. Called Gil. Yo man, got somebody on the phone. He said, hi Gil, how you doing? He said, yo, what's up man? Gil like who this man? Gil B. He said, hi, I'm Courtney Holt. So me, I'm a vicious research. I'm like this one out of the phone. I sent it to Gil. Screenshot. I said, oh, this dude. This dude that ran it. He's the head of Spotify at the time. I'm like, how did. I'm saying to myself, how you get my number?

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[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Wallow]

In culture, you don't got to ask nobody to do nothing for you. When you pop into you hot, the people that need to find you, going to find you. It ain't about nobody reposting you. They going to find you. I don't know how you got my number. So now I'm on the phone and I'm like. I said. He said, what do you guys want? I said. I said, what you talking about? I said, no. What do you want? He said, no. How much money do you guys want? Now I'm stuck because I don't even know what to tell him. I'm stuck. But it's like I said, we want ownership. We want all our ip. We want to keep owning our ip. Yes, he said, we want your ip. So how much money do you want? I'm gonna join Texas Gill. This getting spooky, Gil, because I think this like, some movies, some that, you know, when they tell you going to the other room, I'm like, oh, this. I'm like, oh, right. So I'm like, all right, can I have my lawyer? You see, I'm going to text you the email. Let's get on the email chain. And our legal will get involved. When they start talking about legal, you know this is real, right? It's game time.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

I'm like, bet. Gil was like, who was that? I said, I don't know, man. That I sent him all this. I'm like, that shit was scary. I was sweating on the call because, I mean, you know, you know, I ain't never had. Because, I mean, I'm still trying to come up. That's when we got in the game. We had them. We negotiating with them. We negotiated with Barstool. It was. And it turned us up. But at the same time, I'm already getting the money from our own sponsorship. I'm already doing it. I'm getting a bunch of money. We doing it. We killing it. I'm doing all the. All the brand deals, all that stuff. We was killing it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Normally, people say, don't do anything with family, but you and Gilly seem to work. How did you know that it was gonna work? And you guys go 5050 on everything?

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How did you know? Cause family, man, Sometime wallow, man. You know, family do you bad.

[Wallow]

One thing About Cuz. Cuz and me and Cuz ain't got no ego. I could check him and it's done right there. He could check me and it's done right there. Cause if we wrong, we wrong. If we right, we right. We don't. And then we not in competition with each other. Like, I'm so like, you gotta stand this, you gotta understand this. I'm so excited for him right now in this moment because simply because the Eagles is winning. And this dude, when I say he loved the Eagles. Oh yeah, man, listen, when I say he loved the Eagles, he told me, he said, cuz we was on a bustle with the boys. He said, I want to have sex with my wife for a year. If the Eagles could win the super bowl.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They gotta win by 10 Super Bowls.

[Wallow]

But that's what he said. So I'll be so happy that. Listen, Eagles is my team now. You know what I mean?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right?

[Wallow]

I don't really, you know, I bounce around. People know I got different teams every year. I'm just saying. I'm just being real. This the first time in the history of my life that I've been faithful to a team for a whole season. I never done this shit in my life. I usually bounce around, especially in the playoffs or they got dropped out in New Jersey. I pull my jersey out, you know what I mean? I don't even know where my jersey's at, but I'm gonna just say that like we so excited for each other. We always championing each other when we win. That's different, bro. You don't see that everybody want to compete with each other. When we supposed to eat with each other, we just not doing that shit. We ain't built like that. We just not built like that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What made you guys sign with Barstool? Because talk to Portnoy and he's like, hey, yeah, we signed him. But we didn't really know. Cause I mean, culturally and fan base wise, I mean that's not where they. That's not where we are. And their culture and their fan base is kind of not where we are. But it's a match that works, you know?

[Wallow]

You know why? Because we was going back and forth with Spotify. They was cool. Spotify wanted to box us in. Because Spotify, they take you off of YouTube and say, you over here now the visuals. You can't put the whole show. It was like that. I'm like, no, what about our people? Everybody ain't got no money for no subscription for that, right? Bars too. Was like, not only was he gonna give you the paper, not only do we don't want to own your ip, but we gonna make sure y'all still stay over there. So y'all can do what y'all do. Whatever y'all want to do. Dave. And when we sign Dave and Eric and Ardini was so real. When they met up with us, it was like they didn't play. They asked us for a number. I said it, but I. I should have said the number too early.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The low number. You should have went a little high.

[Wallow]

Because you know when they. I'm just thinking about. Because I was broke at the time. I wasn't broke, but I was jbm, just barely making it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

So I'm like, damn. So I'm like. So I told them, I said, this. This the first deal. I say, listen, we in Demons that's out of Philadelphia. They come down and get on train, come see me and Gil. We go there. Gil said, you got it. Go ahead, go ahead, cuz I'm at the table. They said, we just 36 month, you know, distribution deal. You know, the whole thing. Said, how much? I'm thinking I'm popping my shit. I said, three million. Cool. She said, all right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I said, ah, man, you. You.

[DraftKings Representative]

Hey.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know you done screwed up. You know you screwed up. The minute you said 3D said, deal.

[Wallow]

I didn't even get the 3 million out. Because I'm like, damn. Now I'm sitting there, I'm like. Gil kicked me, like. But he said, I told you to say something. I said, damn, what you want me to say? You know what I mean? We shook our hand, signed it. You know what I mean? Lori got the information. You know, all that shit, right? But it's for. But it was like. It was like, now I ain't gonna hold you. What we did in two and a half years into that contract, man, the first offer that came through, and then renegotiating. Because now we ready to start a bidding war. Cause we ready.

[Shannon Sharpe]

We gotta leave.

[Wallow]

We gotta make our joint. Coming up, the first joint that came through, 25 million, 36 months licensing deal. That was the first deal Dave told me. He said, on the pot, I got a blank check for y'all. He meant that because Dave. Dave is a little different.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He definitely different, having talked.

[Wallow]

And one thing I say about Dave that I. Dave don't respect money, respect loyalty. He don't care about money. Don't like, it's. And it's different when you got somebody that better than You. Yeah, I could have went to Amazon. Yeah. We could have went to Spotify.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

We could have went to anybody else that. Who the numbers was there. I'm talking about in the same day. They just coming through the different deals, right? But I said, these people better known as Bush's name. We went in a room for five minutes, shook hands, walked out. We stayed with barstool, bunch of money. And I'm like, yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Cause I see you pulling up with a new. A Porsche damn near every week.

[Wallow]

I might go get one after this show. Just the purse I got. You know what I mean? Just because. But, but, but this is. This is. This is the thing about it is we put the work in, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right?

[Wallow]

Every day we getting up, putting the work in. Shannon, you put the work and you won't get what you need, you know, I mean, you could have been out here doing some money. You were. It was about putting the work in. So it was like, damn. And it just. The business game. One thing I'm gonna say about Barstool, when I went. When we went to Barstool, I stayed in the hotel for about a week in New York and I went to the Barstool office every day. And that one week of me staying in Barstool, I'm going to the office talking to different people in the office. That one week I learned the whole podcast game, the whole business side of it. I'm talking about Dave and Erica Nardini. This is why I mess with them. They took us to their plug. They took us to their investors. As we got to. They said, listen, these guys are getting too big, man. We want you to introduce you to. We gonna have a meeting with the people that gave them money. They was like, where they do that at? Where they do that at? You know, I mean, this is our last year in Barstool. New deal coming. This is our last year. Wow.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Turning down deals, obviously, you know, sometimes you have to walk away.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's not an easy thing. Because that money you like, damn, that's a lot of money. But at the end of the day, it has to. Does it have to feel right? Does it have to represent you and Gilly in order for you to like, okay, this is what million dollar worth of game? We'll rock with it.

[Wallow]

You know what it is? We need partners that understand what we doing and understand that we trying to grow and got the infrastructure in order to support that. That's the first thing that we looking for. You're gonna have differences no matter where you go. Any Big company in America or in the world, there's gonna be things there that they're gonna. People gonna do shit, say things that you might not like, but it don't matter where you go at. But our thing is, we need the infrastructure for growth. We need to make sure that these people believe and they see the vision of what we gonna do, right? And they gonna get to get out of our way. Dave never been in our way.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You want. You and Gil want to keep creative control of what? Million dollars.

[Wallow]

But we own our own stuff. We own million dollars worth of game. We got our own. We got our own facilities. We got all our own equipment. Everything is all like, we. We. Not the people that say, oh, this is the problem with people. People want other people to say, I want to use this facility. I want to use your equipment. I want to use your people. I want to do all that, and I want all this. We don't do that. We got our own equipment. We got our own cameras. We got our own team. We got our own. Yeah, we just created distribute that, distribute that, distribute that. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, wow.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Partnerships. I mean, you got Reebok, you got Hand, Puma, NFL Network, Global Citizen, Footlocker, Philly Union had a lot of them. How did you know. How did you know how to do this? Because, I mean, had you had any formal training or informal training or. So. So how did you know how to, like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna cut this up. You know, ads. I'm gonna do this for. I'm gonna do this for a minute. You get one minute per week. We shoot four shows a month. You get every. And I'm. Hey, boom, boom, boom.

[Wallow]

It first started in the streets of Philadelphia. I used to write on walls. I remember I went to this event, and it was like a block party or something. And I told somebody my name. It was like, yo, you the guy to be writing on walls. You wallow, okay? So when I got to jail, this is what I did. Shannon. I'm in the jail. When I'm in jail. We had TVs in a state penitentiary in Pennsylvania. Marcelli said one day, why, every time, all you do is just keep clicking. Watching commercials. I was fascinated with commercials because I always was wondering, every time I went to McDonald's, my Big Mac ain't never looked like that, man. You dig what I'm saying?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

So I'm studying that. Then I realized, hold up. I started reading books. This was the advertising agency that did this. McDonald's ain't make that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

Then I started studying advertising agents. Then I read a book called Damn Good Advice by George Lois. George Lois is the one they made the TV show Mad Men about the ad show. He's one of the greatest admin in the world. At the same time, the only show that I'm watching religiously, the only person I wanted to meet when I got was Anthony Bourdain. Parts are known. No reservations to layover. He was one of the greatest. He. He was one of the greatest explorers to me because that and the Travel Channel was taking me around the world. But I'm looking at that. But. But the advertising thing, I knew one thing. You got God, then you got marketing in that order. Can nobody tell me nothing different? You got God and then you got marketing because you're market to who you guys should be, what church you should go to, what car you should drive, what food you should eat, what you should wear, what restaurant, what school you should go to. Market. Market. Everything is marketed to you. That's the most powerful thing on the planet. You don't make the decision. The marketers make the decision for you. They force your decision. I said, I want to be a marketer. Nobody want to do that. Nobody want to do. Because it's not shiny. That's why if you see my stuff. When I came home into prison, I went to businesses in the community and said, listen, I want to promote your rib shack. Even though I don't eat ribs, I want to promote your rib shack because I know it's people in the city of Philadelphia that's 15 blocks away that don't know it's here. Hey, everybody, I'm walo277. Welcome to Shannon Rib Shop. One thing about these ribs, they fall off the bone. The sauce is a sauce that you never tasted before. One thing about this sauce, when it hits your tongue, it grabs your tongue and it slap your tongue. The sauce is so juicy. You never tasted this. Nobody wanted to do that. I said, I'm gonna step into a field where I don't have nobody in my way. I gotta worry about ad agencies and all. I ain't worrying about them. They disconnected from the reality of culture up now. And I ain't talking about black coach. I'm talking about the culture of what's going on now. A lot of them is disconnected. That's why I got a company called We Control Cool is that. It's a company that connect businesses that need that. That next level thing that need to be connected with cool. That need to be connected with everything. That's next level. That's what we control. Cool.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do you're a cultural advisor for Google and YouTube. What does that role entail?

[Wallow]

So I'm on the phone with Leo Cohen and I was talking to Road to Equality. It was like a couple hundred Google employees on this call and I'm telling them my story and Leo Cohen said, walo, what is it that you want to do? I said, man, I want to come to YouTube and start my own program. I don't like these dudes on YouTube because every time it's a tutorial, they too wordy. Nobody want to hear that shit. And the average person don't know what they talking about. So we need to teach people how to. How to start their YouTube, how to scale on YouTube, how to monetize the YouTube. You serious? Yes. Let's get on another call. I started a program called YouTube Avenues. YouTube Avenues. We went over to 10 cities and what we do is this. We go into a city, we put four or five hundred creators, whatever you want to do, inside of a room. And my team come when I tell you. My team, I got a mean team. I'm talking about Tuma Basa, right? One thing about Toomer is this. He's one of the most beautiful people, one of the most honest people you ever will run into in the history of the music business. This dude is. This brother is real. He's the head of black music for YouTube. We go there, he put a team together. Him shout out to Viv, Vivian, Little, Rachi, Mahale, Adam, Brittany. My whole. I'm talking about there's a team of us, right? And we went from city to city and we put 400, 500 people in the cities inside of a room and teach them how to start their YouTube, how to scale on YouTube, how to monetize YouTube, Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, Detroit, Miami, Houston, Oakland, London, and the list goes on. But we went to all these cities and we left something special there. And it's all because I had an idea and I said, yeah, I could come over there and just talk about me, but no, let's do something for the community. And that was the first program they ever had on that level to give back out of all these platforms.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You mentioned that how Dave introduced you to the people that gave him money in order to do what he wanted to do. And they introduced you. Introduced. He introduced them to you and now. And Dave had like. I said, I talked to Dave and he's like, hey, people get big and they leave. Hey, Bless them.

[Wallow]

Dave ain't no hater.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He's not every.

[Wallow]

Listen, everybody that been on bars too, Barstool has been incubated for him. They went to the next level and they got shitload of money. Call her daddy. Example.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yep.

[Wallow]

Pat McAfee, example. Like every busting with the boys, Caleb, example. Dave is the type of dude, you go to Dave and be like, listen, man. He's like, all right, cool. And then the thing about Dave that I respect it was some people that didn't even own a IP there. He gave them the IP and said, go ahead, do your thing. Where they do that at?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow. What did you learn most about business, Wallow?

[Wallow]

I learned that it ain't personal. And I also learned that business is 90% about relationships. Relationships is worth more than money. And the thing I like about business is you got to understand the power of partnership. Partnership is this. Shannon, you got a bunch of resources. I'm gonna say, damn, Shannon, I'm gonna bring this idea I got over here to you. In return, I'm gonna give you some equity. So in return, you're gonna open up your resources to me. That's all business is. Businesses is about equity. It's about fair treatment, is about understanding that it's not personal. Sometimes things might not go your way. Sometimes you might get outbid. But this shit is really about who you can get on that phone. I got a strong phone.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I tell people all the time, being on this side, it's about relationships. Because you never know, somebody might been on a starter role three years ago in a bigger role five years ago. And the rel.

[Wallow]

You know what?

[Shannon Sharpe]

I met Wallow. I met this gentleman about four years ago. And I think he's doing something. Let's give him a call.

[Wallow]

And he. Remember how you treated him, how you respected him. That's why I respect everybody in the room. At the end of the day, Shannon is like this. They don't understand there's a difference between you getting a deal for 50 million and you getting a deal for 65 million and that, and that one, that. Listen, that 15, 15 more. That 15 million more was solely based off of. I was doing it by myself. But Shannon, you knew somebody over there at that platform or that betting site or that what's name. And they said, shannon, you're part of this. Let me see the numbers. Oh, yeah, we can do this. I'm talking about this. This is 5 minute phone call business, man. Yes. Tens of millions is traded for finding five minute phone calls. People don't understand that, oh yeah, this episode is super.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But you know what people don't. And I tell people, look, the toes you step on today might be on the foot connected to the leg that lead to the butt you gotta kiss tomorrow. Yeah, you gotta be careful how you treat people because you treat somebody bad, one day he's gonna be, he or she might be in a higher role.

[Wallow]

And you know what, it always happened like that though.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That guy was a jerk to me. And now somebody that might not be as qualified, maybe not as deserving or earned the opportunity, but because you were a jerk three years ago, five years ago, maybe even 10 years ago, now they get that opportunity that you pass by only because you look down on that person.

[Wallow]

And the funny thing about this thing for everybody up there that's coming out, the most powerful people, the most biggest deal makers. He look like some dude that's stressed out with some beat up here with a beat up pair a hookah sneakers on, some skinny jeans and a Patagonia little vest on and you not even gonna pay attention to them. And they the most powerful shot caller in the room, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yep.

[Wallow]

I'm telling you, man. And that's how I go.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You and Gillette, y'all put together pay per view, boxing events, concert, your own drink company sale merch. What have you learned from each endeavor that you embark upon? What have you learned? Walla.

[Wallow]

I learned that relationships is worth more than money. It always go back to relationships because one relationship, one call I got. That's why I tell you in this game it's about having a strong phone. And the way you get a strong phone is through relationships and not giving nobody number out and calling people for what you need to call them for. Not the BS because you could lose somebody in the process of just calling people to call them. You could text people, check up, but just all that. So when I was for instance, Clover, everything I'd done, I always knew somebody that I could call, they could give me a better, they could give me a better gps, they give me a better directions to get here quicker or safer. Sometimes it might be longer. No, wallow, don't do that. Damn. But I got, listen to me, this is how it's going to play. You move here, then you move here, then you move here, then you'll be here in 36 months with what you doing. I'm telling you, this is a bigger play. All right, cool. Sometimes I got to slow it down. Sometimes it, you know, and that's what is good to having good advisors and good people in the game. That's. That really been here. The, The Sean G's, the, the. The Troy Carters, you know, the different people that I have that I could call on. You know what I mean? That could really, like, give me some, you know, Tony Drapers, right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Since securing these big deals, how has your life changed, man?

[Wallow]

It's lonely at the top, man. They get crazy, man. I'm gonna tell you something, man. Once the success come, people find rays to fall out with you, man. Cause you know, you start getting smart. Because it's hard, man. Cause, man, I'm gonna tell you it's hard once you slow down and realize people just want to use you. And I'm not saying everybody, but. But when, you know, sometimes family, friends, they just see you as a dollar sign and they don't see you as a friend no more. Shannon, if I'm calling you all the time and we laughing about shit on Instagram. Yo, you see that post? That shit was. And then now I'm calling you. Damn. What's up, man? Oh, man. Man, you ain't gonna believe this, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Boy doing bad.

[Wallow]

They just took my call, man. They told my call. But what happened, man? I owe these tickets, man. How much you owe, man, they said I gotta pay 45,000. Man, your car costs 5,000, man. What is you talking about, bro? Because it's hard. You know what the time it is. It's hard. It's hard for people to sit back and just enjoy and be happy for you. They want to also live exactly what you doing. They want to come and fake work, man. I want to come work for you. No, you don't. You know you ain't going to work. You just want to come around and get. And you want me to sponsor this lifestyle because a lot of times from our culture, everybody wants somebody to finance a lifestyle that you might not be living. I don't party, I don't go to clubs, I don't smoke hookah, you know what I mean? But I didn't look down for people and they go do some dumb shit. Then they back at my door again.

[Shannon Sharpe]

This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to part one on. Just simply go back to Club Shay Shay profile and I'll see you there.

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[Wallow]

[e-mail] the Unshakables podcast is kicking off.

[Gambling Helpline Representative]

Season two with an episode you won't want to miss.

[Wallow]

Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase.

[Gambling Helpline Representative]

For Business, as he welcomes a very special guest, Chairman and CEO of JP.

[Wallow]

Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon.

[Gambling Helpline Representative]

Hear about the challenges facing small businesses.

[Wallow]

And some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome.

[Gambling Helpline Representative]

Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply.

[Wallow]

JP Morgan Chase Bank N A Member.

[Gambling Helpline Representative]

FDIC Copyright 2025 JP Morgan Chase & Company.