Club Shay Shay - Wallo267 Part 2

Summary

Club Shay Shay - Wallo267 Part 2: A Deep Dive into Redemption and Resilience

Episode Release Date: February 19, 2025

In the riveting second part of his conversation with Wallow, NFL legend Shannon Sharpe delves into the complex interplay between success, personal relationships, and overcoming a tumultuous past. This episode offers listeners an unfiltered look into Wallow's life, exploring themes of forgiveness, community, and the challenges of breaking generational cycles.

---

1. Impact of Financial Success on Friendships

Shannon Sharpe opens the conversation by addressing the strain that financial success can place on longstanding friendships. He observes:

"[02:38] Shannon Sharpe: ...Why is it that I'm like you said you had people that you were cool with until you started making money... and then all of a sudden... we cool."

Wallow responds by shedding light on the loneliness and paranoia that can accompany newfound wealth:

"[02:58] Wallow: ...that shit gets lonely. Because now you become... It get lonely."

He emphasizes that success often brings an "infrastructure" that changes interpersonal dynamics, leading to feelings of isolation despite maintaining connections with close friends like Gilly and others.

---

2. Navigating Personal Life: Dating and Family

The discussion shifts to Wallow's personal life, particularly the challenges of dating in the spotlight. He candidly shares:

"[08:06] Wallow: Dating can be real easy, and it can be real hard because you're a meal ticket out this joint."

Wallow also touches upon his role as a father and his contemplations about marriage, revealing a desire to prioritize family over societal expectations:

"[09:49] Wallow: ...Cause I don't want to hurt your grandma. For what? If I hurt your grandma? When the shit gonna stop?"

---

3. Childhood Struggles and Incarceration

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Wallow's difficult childhood and his experiences with the juvenile and adult prison systems. He recounts:

"[10:21] Wallow: I was always in institutions. I got locked up June 30, 1990. I was 11 years old for a couple days. And then I went on to spend Five years."

Wallow discusses the lasting impact of his incarceration on his life trajectory and personal development, highlighting the absence of a stable father figure and the emotional scars left behind.

---

4. Forgiveness and Overcoming Trauma

One of the most poignant moments occurs when Wallow talks about forgiving his brother's killer. He shares an emotional encounter with his niece that propelled him towards forgiveness:

"[38:21] Wallow: ...I'm not built like that to go kill no black man. I'm not built like that... I'm going to live for my brother... I know it's more things that I got to do."

This act of forgiveness is portrayed not just as a personal relief but as a commitment to breaking the cycle of violence within his community.

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5. Writing the Memoir: 'Armed with Good Intentions'

Wallow discusses his motivation behind writing his memoir, "Armed with Good Intentions," which achieved New York Times bestseller status. He articulates:

"[16:49] Wallow: The only thing different between me and you is I ain't stopped. That's it. I just ain't stopped."

He underscores the importance of transparency and authenticity in his writing, aiming to inspire others by sharing his numerous losses and the resilience that led him to recover and thrive.

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6. Rap Industry’s Relationship with Prison Narratives

Shannon and Wallow explore the prevalence of prison narratives in rap music. Wallow offers a critical perspective:

"[22:05] Wallow: ...In rap, it became a challenging sport, a violent challenge in sport to the point of where it's dope."

He argues that while rap serves as an outlet for expressing the harsh realities of inner-city life, it inadvertently perpetuates a glorified image of prison life, influencing young men to mimic such lifestyles.

---

7. Breaking Generational Cycles Through Education and Community Support

Wallow passionately discusses the necessity of education and community support in breaking the chains of generational incarceration:

"[45:05] Wallow: ...We gotta start educating ourselves, making sure the kids is educated, putting books in their hand over tablets."

He highlights the transformative power of education and the importance of fostering relationships that encourage personal growth and communal strength.

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8. The Journey of Podcasting: 'Million Dollar Worth of Game'

The episode delves into Wallow's entrepreneurial venture with his cousin Gilly in launching the podcast "Million Dollar Worth of Game." He narrates the inception and rapid growth of their podcasting journey:

"[60:03] Wallow: ...We dropped the first episode. A million dollars worth. Worth a game. It went number two in comedy on podcast."

Wallow emphasizes the strategic approach they took, leveraging existing social media followings and establishing strong business relationships to secure sponsorships, such as with Shannon Sharpe himself.

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9. Emotional Connections and Family Ties

Throughout the episode, Wallow demonstrates a deep emotional connection to his family, particularly his grandmother (referred to as "nanny"). In one touching moment, he reveals:

"[12:49] Shannon Sharpe: Yes, ma'am. How you doing? Your son dropping knowledge on us? ... Wallow: Hey, our family connections run deep."

This connection drives much of Wallow's motivation to reform and stay committed to living a positive life for the sake of his loved ones.

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10. Challenges in the Podcasting Industry and Maintaining Authenticity

Wallow shares insights into the challenges they faced in the podcasting world, including dealing with external pressures and maintaining creative control. He recounts an encounter with a representative from Spotify:

"[60:01] Wallow: ...She said, I'm signing for my ip... We negotiating with Barstool. It was... But at the same time, I'm already getting the money from our own sponsorship."

This segment underscores the importance of protecting intellectual property and staying true to their vision despite industry pressures.

---

Conclusion

The "Club Shay Shay - Wallo267 Part 2" episode serves as a powerful testament to Wallow's journey from adversity to empowerment. Through honest discussions about his past, personal struggles, and professional endeavors, Wallow offers listeners valuable insights into resilience and the importance of community support. Shannon Sharpe's empathetic hosting further enriches the conversation, making this episode a compelling listen for anyone interested in stories of redemption and personal growth.

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Notable Quotes:

• "[02:58] Wallow: ...that shit get lonely."
• "[08:06] Wallow: Dating can be real easy, and it can be real hard because you're a meal ticket out this joint."
• "[38:21] Wallow: ...I'm going to live for my brother."
• "[16:49] Wallow: The only thing different between me and you is I ain't stopped. That's it. I just ain't stopped."
• "[22:05] Wallow: ...In rap, it became a challenging sport, a violent challenge in sport to the point of where it's dope."
• "[45:05] Wallow: ...We gotta start educating ourselves, making sure the kids is educated, putting books in their hand over tablets."
• "[60:03] Wallow: ...We dropped the first episode. A million dollars worth. Worth a game. It went number two in comedy on podcast."

These quotes highlight the essence of the conversation, touching on themes of loneliness in success, the complexities of personal relationships, forgiveness, perseverance, the influence of rap culture, the power of education, and entrepreneurial success.

Transcript

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[Hypnotic Representative]

Tip off time at my house, there are a few things that are must haves on my checklist. My fellow friends and fans. Check my favorite jersey. It is good luck. Check an iconic drink that's a fan favorite.

[Wallow]

Check.

[Hypnotic Representative]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway. But why? Why is it that I'm like you said you had people that you were cool with until you started making money. Until million dollar worth of game took off. And then all of a sudden, as long as we right here, Gilly and Wallow right here and everybody else right here, we cool.

[Wallow]

Hey, dog. Hey. Not my dog, baby.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Not my dog. Wallow and Gilly go here. They still there. Wallow and Gilly go here. And you go here. And you go here. Man, that hate, man.

[Wallow]

No, not just that. People don't understand first once the money's cut off, then it's the time you don't kick it with me no more. You fake. No, bro, it wasn't about me kicking with you. It's about the money. Sometimes it be that, but a lot of times, new levels, new devils, man, you gotta understand this. You get real deep. A lot of things change when you build an infrastructure. It's going to be people that's going to be like, man, Shane, I need you to do. I can't do that right now. I'm building my stuff because people stop worrying about what you got. Personally, you don't have the people that hit you up. You all right? Anything cool? You taking rest? You know what I mean? You eating right? What's going on? How you, you don't have it no more. It'd just be about paper sometimes. And I ain't saying everybody about that, but that shit get lonely. Because now you become. Sometimes you could become paranoid, right? Because out here, everybody want to live that lifestyle social media says you got.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, because I, I mean I, I don't believe it. They say 6% of. Only 6% of Americans make over. Make six figure. I say, man, everybody, every profile I go on on IG make it six figure.

[Wallow]

That's a lot. It's deep.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I think it's more like 90% making six figure. It's gotta be one.

[Wallow]

It's deep. It's deep.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Or somebody lying. I mean, either the Economist or.

[Wallow]

No, the problem is people don't know how to prioritize. What people would do is they'd be spending outside of their means and then they want somebody else to take care of their responsibility. That's the, that's the game we living in. People would do anything for a picture, man. To take that picture and post it up. Yes.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Why you go rent a couple fake, 3, 4, 500 just to rent a car to like the floor or go spend a thousand dollar, get on a private jet. No goodwill. You know why they do that? Wallow?

[Wallow]

Yeah, you spend all that money when you could have just jumped in and got a, got a nice ticket for 900 first class, man, them private jets to me. Cause that little area, the little ac. Excuse me. The flight is in here. I want some cranberries, juice.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Now that you've come into some money, you're comfortable. You're beyond comfortable.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What is the first thing when you got some money you like.

[Wallow]

Damn.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What's the first thing you bought?

[Wallow]

I was in my. You know what's crazy? I didn't even realize it because it was so unreal. I. I was driving in my Prius. Prius? Yep. You know about that. That's my baby driving in that thing. And I was driving from Atlantic City to Baltimore and.

[Shannon Sharpe]

In a Prius?

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How long it take you? A day.

[Wallow]

No, bro. Ho ho ho. One thing about the Prius, one of the best cars in the world, a Prius, 57 miles per gallon.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I know.

[Wallow]

Unbelievable. One of the smoothest cars I drive. I used to. That's how I came up. Me and Gil used to be in the Prius, running back and forth to New York, all that stuff. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But it take. It go 10 miles an hour.

[Wallow]

No, it don't. That's a L. Prius is one of the best cars that I ever had in my life. I'm talking about. It's smooth, it's straight to the point. You know what I mean? It was just great. Prius holler at me. But what I'm saying is, I'm driving the docusign. Come across for the dram sign. I'm just driving. I forgot about it, man. And then it was like me and the girl was in land. That's when I first caught Covid. Right? I caught the COVID I didn't know what it was. I was just in Atlanta. I was sweating in the bed all night. I woke up, and I don't know what I have. I just checked my account to see something. I fell out the bed. I was like, damn. The first thing I thought about, I ain't gonna hold you. I said, I gotta go some money up. Let me go buy some shit, right? No. I was hitting people off. Grandma mom was hitting people off and stuff like that. But it was like, I ain't even know what to do with it, man. Cause I'm like, damn. The people come. And luckily, a couple months later, I called one of my advisors, John Miranda. Shout out to world Wild west, man. Plugged me up with John, man. Shout out to Uncle Wes, too, man. I called him. I said, listen, what's up with taxes, man? How did that go? He said, come to my office wild. I went to his office. He Said I'm gonna get anything. He called me, like, a couple days later. I. I almost crashed my car. I said, you mean to tell me that I gotta give somebody named Sam all this money? I don't even know them. What I. I was. I was so mad at John. I'm sorry, John. I was mad. He knew I was Maz. Anytime he called me at night, he's like, what? Every time I seen his number, I got scared. Cause I'm like. I'm like, I gotta get these people all this money. He said, you gotta take it now. We gotta. We gonna take it now. Put it up. Make sure we. And we gonna pay early. That's how you know you get real money when you got to pay quarter.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Wallow]

So I'm like. I'm in the car. I'm just holding my heart and everything. I'm just laying there like I had a heart attack. I ain't know. I was like George Jefferson, because I'm like, all this money. So you know.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But Fred Sample. I'm coming.

[Wallow]

All that. So. So then it was like, man, you buy, man, you buy. You do your thing. Then it's like, you bought anything out, you did anything. You got a watch, you got all this stuff. It just. It don't mean like, I only. I ain't gonna front. I only look at the money no more like that. I'm more excited about just getting a deal and just negotiating shit. That's what gave me. Just to see that I've done it right and to show that I really. Everything that I educated myself on is working. But I don't really care about money like that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What's the dating life like now?

[Wallow]

Dating is. Dating can be real easy, and it can be real hard because you're a meal ticket out this joint. And a lot of people is looking at you like that. But that's always been easy for me, you know what I'm saying? But I ain't date when I was broke. Why not, man? I ain't been. One time, Gil called me, right? I'm in the crib, right? And Tudy, his wife, they laughing. I ain't know. She. I ain't know. He was on speakerphone. So he said, dan, what you doing, man? I'm ready to go on a date real quick, man. He said, dan, where you going? Right here. I'm on this computer, man, going on a date, man. I got a little. Little X and xx, right? She like, what? Wilda you. So when I first came home, I used to shake the dice A lot. You know what I mean? Shake my dice. Because it was like, man, you need money to date and all that shit. Yeah. And he was like, man, I said, no, bro, I ain't got time to be sitting in nobody's face when I got to get my life together. See, I'm one of them boys that's extremist. I got to get my paper together, just like I tell my nephews. Listen, nephew, get your money. Focus on yourself. While you're in your 20s, run it up, get your credit together, get all your stuff so when you're in your 40s, you can live the greatest life of your life. Yes, but dating is easy, man. That's. That ain't. That's. Man, it ain't. You ain't got to do too much.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You want kids?

[Wallow]

I got a kid from my old relationship. Right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay.

[Wallow]

My ex. Fiance. I took on Day. Dang. I love you, Dae Dang. I took on her and adopted her. Sent her to college.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow.

[Wallow]

She graduated, too. I mean, I think about it sometimes here and there, like, have another, you know. But I ain't in no rush.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You want to get married?

[Wallow]

I don't know yet. I don't really, you know, I don't know if that, you know. Can I be honest with you?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

Separate. My paper man. I thought I was married to my paper man. Yeah, I'm sorry, man. I'm just saying. Do we gotta get married? Can I just say. Listen, all right, listen. This is what we gonna do. I'm gonna take care of you to Lifestyle for you. I got you. But I don't need nobody coming into the courtroom talking about. They talking about this. And the third man I have talking about my paper, man. I'm just. I'm just being straight up because I got a lot of. I got people I got to take care of.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

And you just gonna come and knock because you're gonna sign this. This. But I don't even. It's deep, man. Yeah, but. But I, you know, commitment. I ain't got no problem with commitment.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Childhood. What was your childhood like, man?

[Wallow]

I'm gonna tell you something, man. I had a crazy childhood, man, because I ain't want to listen. Mom. Great mom, great grandmom, but I was so impressionable, man. I ain't really. I don't even think I had a childhood, to be honest with you, because I was always in institutions. I got locked up June 30, 1990. I was 11 years old for a couple days. And then I went on to spend Five years.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You were juvie?

[Wallow]

Yeah, I spent five years in the juvenile system. Then I got locked up and got to 19 out of 25. I mean, 19 and a half to 52 years. So at the end of the day, I spent more time inside. Oh, hold up, hold up. Did I catch up? I did 25. I'm 45. No, I ain't catch up yet. Yeah, I spent more time in the cell than I did the free world.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You named after your father?

[Wallow]

Wallace.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You a junior?

[Wallow]

Yeah. Wallace Roundtree. No, I ain't a junior. His name was Wallace Roundtree. My name is Wallace Peoples.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay, let me ask you this. Did. What type of relationship did you have with your father?

[Wallow]

I just remember my father. He disappeared, like, around 479. Probably like, 81. We never knew what happened.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Is he alive?

[Wallow]

I don't know if he alive. He never.

[Shannon Sharpe]

So you guys have never reconnected? You. Have you tried. Have you tried to find out what happened or where he is? Are you okay? Are you cool with not reconnecting?

[Wallow]

No, we thought he was. We thought he was. We think he did, but we don't know. But I would like to have a. I would like to kick it with him. I'm not the one that. Hold on. If I see that nigga today, I'll be like, dad, what's up, man?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Would you know what he looked like if you saw him?

[Wallow]

I think I would. I think we'd connect. He'd probably. If he watching me out there. I love to just kick it with him. I ain't got time to be holding on to what happened. It didn't happen.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow.

[Wallow]

What's up? You know what I mean, right? And you know, I just kick it with him, make sure he see my sisters and brothers and go from there.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What about your mom?

[Wallow]

Oh, my mom. She right there. My mom gonna be watching this. Let me see what Jackie. Let me call Jackie real quick, man. She gonna be like, you on Shay Shay. She. I mean, my mom might say something to you, man. I don't know what she might say. Cause she. Oh, man, let me call my mom, man. Let me see. Cause she's something else. This is gonna be deep, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How you know she ain't busy?

[Wallow]

Nah, she gonna answer. Watch this. She be ready. She. She gonna be like, oh, she better if she don't answer this joint. Hey, Wild. What's up, Mom? Look. You know him?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes, ma'am. How you doing? I'm doing amazing.

[DraftKings Representative]

How are you?

[Wallow]

Why you put your sexy voice on? I told you when I Be calling you. Don't be putting yourself.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes, ma'am. How are you today? Your son dropping knowledge on us? He begin. He does a great interview.

[Wallow]

I'm watching the 2017 Eagles. Cause you know they gonna kick. Hey, Mom. Hey, Mom. I told you. Listen, but hold up. I told you about putting your sexy voice on when I call you with people. You did that. You did that with Dion. Don't do that. Don't do that. You did that with Prime. So you tell me. Hey, Shannon, I know what you. I know how you play. I know what's. But it's a difference with Prime. Don't get it twisted. Oh, you liked that activator he had in his head. You used to like them boys with Jheri curls back in the day. Who was the boy you was talking to with the Jheri curl? When I was young, he had the Jheri curl used to spray the activated. I never talked to nobody with no Jerry curl. Yes, you did, Mom. I thought. You know what? You know, listen. You know I told Gil that you was talking to Randall Cunningham. Cause it was a dude that looked like Randall Cunningham. But Gil, on everything I love, the only reason. Listen, listen. On everything I love, Gil said he wasn't no Randall Cunningham. Cause he was walking. He left the crib. He was walking. I said, man, my mom was talking to me. All right, mom. Whatever. All right. All right. Have her say hi to the camera just so we. Mom, say hi to the camera. Mom. Hold on. Wait. No, no, no. Say, mom, not the camera. Just say hi to. To Shay. Shay. People see you always trying to. You always trying to get. I'mma call you mom when I'm out of here. Let me handle this. All right? Love you. I need. I'mma call you. All right, I got you, B. I know. I got you. Look. See? She gets started. She like. It's going, but I got her. Whatever.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You were really close to your grandmother. I was really close to my grandmother.

[Wallow]

Whew. Nanny. Yes. Nanny. Special, man. Nanny. Let me call my mom, man. This is gonna be deep, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How you know she ain't busy?

[Wallow]

She be ready. Hey, Wallace. What's up? Mom, look. You know him. Shannon?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes, ma'am. How you doing?

[Hypnotic Representative]

How you doing?

[Shannon Sharpe]

I'm doing amazing.

[DraftKings Representative]

How are you?

[Wallow]

Why you put your sexy voice on? I told you when I be calling you. You did that with Deion. Don't do that. Don't do that. You did that with prime, too. You tell me. Hey, Shannon. All my life, been grinding. All my life. Sacrifice, hustle. Paid the price, wanna slice, got to roll a dice that's why all my life I be grinding all my life look, all my life Been grinding all my life Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Want a slice, got to roll a.

[Wallow]

Dice that's why all my life I've been grinding all my life.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Hello. Welcome to another episode of Club Shay Shay. I am your host, Shannon Sharpe. Got to stopping by for conversation and a drink today. New York Times bestselling author, a highly sought after motivational speaker. A revered culture advisor for YouTube. A role model, a mentor, community leader for millions. One of the most influential, successful, passionate media personalities on the Internet. A global inspiration, a multi hyphenated marketer, activist, thought leader, humanitarian, orator, entrepreneur and entertainer. Natural phenomenon, a gift to the world. Top rated podcaster. He was named on the Hollywood Reporter's most powerful people in podcasting. Co host of the wildly popular million dollars worth of game. The son of Philadelphia. He lives by the model. No one can stop you but you. Here he is. Wallow.

[Wallow]

How you be my brother?

[Shannon Sharpe]

I'm good, bro.

[Wallow]

How you doing? What was a hell of an introduction. Damn that introduction. I'm like that video.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Are you talking about somebody else sitting down here?

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wallow. Thanks for pulling up the club, man. You know, you have your own thing and I know you're busy, so you're taking time out of your day to sit down and chop it up with me. So I greatly appreciate it, man. How you doing, bro?

[Wallow]

I'm doing great, man. I'm doing outstanding.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Better than good. Great. Better than outstanding.

[Wallow]

Outstanding.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Outstanding.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You want to take.

[Wallow]

Oh, no, I don't drink.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You don't drink?

[Wallow]

No, I don't drink. Smoke? None of that. You could drink. Take a drink of that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I don't drink. The I don't drink one. Topical. I don't want to have to go to the bathroom and take a break. Yeah.

[Wallow]

You gonna take that? Drink some of this company. You gonna drink some of that. But that's another story.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes. First of all, congratulations on being on the New York Times bestseller list. Memoir. Armed with Good Intentions. What made you decide to write a book?

[Wallow]

You know, everybody feel as though when you get there in life or you have a moment where as though success come, everybody say, oh, man, you just perfect your life better than mine. My life ain't better than yours. The only thing I wanted to show in the book was that Armed with Good Intentions is filled with a bunch of losses. A loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, loss. That's the average Life. But I think a lot of times people don't understand. The only thing different between me and you is I ain't stopped. That's it. I just ain't stopped. Even in the darkest moments, I said, I gotta get back up. I gotta figure it out. When I'm sitting in the cell, I'm like, when I get out, I gotta do better. You know what I mean? And that was my whole thing. Like, I didn't. One of the main reasons I didn't stop, I wanted to get out of jail and show my grandmom that I could do right before she leave this earth. Cause she always seen me do wrong. And she always believed in me. She always said, you gonna get it. You gonna figure it out. You gonna figure. And she, you know, her whole thing was like, you can't do wrong right. You need to start doing right. Right?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Wow.

[Wallow]

And so later on in life, it catch you. Because all she would tell me was that nanny would tell me lowest people. She'd tell me, boy, I came to Philadelphia with two kids and $10. I got my house in 1963. I worked every day. I couldn't even afford. She said, I couldn't afford a refrigerator, but I got my other stuff. So Father Washington from the church, he signed. So I gave me a refrigerator. I worked every day. I never took a day off. And by 1978, I owned my house. Like, you come from some. You come from some humble beginning. You come from a good. These genius of mine. And I always seen her grind, you know, to the day, even though I take care of things. But it's like she said, baby, she tell me from jail, ain't nothing ever get cut off in this house. Wow. You know better, you know, right? But everything that she's telling me, she's outnumbered with the street culture. So I'm, you know, nanny tell, boy, you she's seeing me, boy, you can do better. And I remember I used to lie to her when I was in prison. I used to tell her all the time. She used to be like, listen, I ain't gonna be here when you get back, baby. Cause I would never tell her how much time I was doing. I would tell her, I'm coming home every year. And she'd be like, I ain't gonna be here when you get back, baby. And I'd be like, nanny, I'm gonna be there. I'm like, nanny, I'll be there. I'll be there next year, next year. She said, you told me next year, three years ago. Cause I'M sitting here thinking. I'm sitting here thinking that nanny wasn't as swift as she is. But I learned later she was swift. But I just wanted to get out and show her that I could do good in life before she expired, before she leave. Cause everything she told me, she was right about it. And I wanted her to know that. She's 90 years old now. Wow.

[Shannon Sharpe]

When you're writing this memoir, did you have any idea that it would end up on the New York Times bestselling list?

[Wallow]

I never had a doubt. I never had a doubt. And the reason I never had a doubt was because you don't have a lot of transparency in things in these days. You have somebody write a. Have a book out or whatever. But it don't be the raw them. It don't be. It don't be coming from a aspect of. I'm going just tell the truth about what I got going on. Rever you like it or not. Because everything is perfect. My life ain't perfect. Your life ain't perfect. Life ain't perfect.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Correct.

[Wallow]

So I was like, you know, I always felt that. And it wasn't just about the book. It's the work that come after the book come out. It's the going to all the shout out to all. All listening. Shout out to all the black bookstores out there. It was a man. Let me tell you something, Shannon. When I tell you they had my back, you know, wherever it was. Baldwin & Co. In New Orleans, wherever it was, Uncle Bobby's in Philadelphia, Malik Books in LA, Mahogany Books in D.C. the list goes on and on. Kendrickson down in Houston, I think we forgot about that. A lot of times we forget about reading. But there's a lot of strong black bookstores out there that really helped us. So I want to shout out to them, support your local black bookstore. Cause they supported me in a major way.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You mentioned earlier, it says a lot of our life is lost, lost, lost. And only in the song all we do is win, win, win. Is that true? Only in the song.

[Wallow]

That's fake. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But you have to. And so is that what you wanted, your story to that do you think that's why your story resonates? Because of what you've gone through? And a lot of other people have gone through similar things. Maybe they didn't go to prison, but they've suffered a lot of losses, but somehow found a way to turn it around and get some wins.

[Wallow]

And is that. And it's the connection of that everything. Everything, like you might ain't see the small, the upbringing of the losses. But since I came home from prison, I showed you 37 years old. 37 year old man getting out of prison in my grandma middle room. I make videos out of nanny middle room. You know what I'm saying? So it was like. And the only reason I could. I could make parole to nanny middle room. Rest in peace to my aunt Ruby. That was my baby. She. She had a heart attack. She died in that room. So I was able to make parole there. And. And I showed you my videos. I wasn't perfect. I showed you living in nanny house. I showed you running down the street. I showed you on the subway, the bus. You seen me. Just most of it wasn't all perfect, but it was me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

There were a lot of rappers that gone served time. Why do you think that's such a common thing in the rap industry?

[Wallow]

In our community? Rap has always been an expression of the environment. A lot of times rap was an escape for us growing up. You know, it changed a lot growing up. It was a, you know, personal expression. It was a documenting of the environment that we come from. A lot of people was storytellers of what they seen. We didn't. We. We didn't really do this. You know, Nas never did what he's taught. He. But he talked about a lot of people ain't do this. As you can see, Ice Cube was smart, Dre was smart. These dudes were smart. But they just talked about. I think in rap, it became a challenging sport, a violent challenge in sport to the point of where it's dope. If I say something. Oh, yeah, you really. That I'm a challenge. I'm gonna see if you really a killer. I'm gonna see. Oh, man, we gotta die about this shit. So that's what came about. And I think a lot of times there's a lot of aggression that come with it. And sometimes we speak our own. We speak our own fate. And, you know, and some people talk about dying like it's cool. Like on the aspect of, like, when I die, you know, I make sure y'all. So, you know, Power in the tongue. Yes, power in the tongue. And we got to live out the rap sometime.

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[Shannon Sharpe]

Do you feel like rap glorifies prison?

[Wallow]

You know what's crazy? It don't glorify prison. I'm not going to say it all the way because it definitely, it definitely could teach you how to get to prison. It's definitely a directory, you know what I mean? It's definitely a directory.

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's a map, huh? It's a how to, guys.

[Wallow]

It's a map, right? But it don't glorify it because most people that rap about it never been to prison. These dudes never been to prison. So it's like, I ain't gonna say glory, but it definitely direct you to a cell.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But why don't you think that guys have learned? Because you've seen guys that have gone there learn from their mistakes and not try to go back. But you see these young guys, as you mentioned, they try to be like. And they talk about things they don't know anything about. And they feel like they need to do something in order to get that for real, that cachet. Like, I'm really about this life.

[Wallow]

You know what it is? I believe that when you young, you was young, I was young. You don't believe nothing that anybody older tell you because you think they disconnected from the reality of life as it is now. Not knowing it was once a reality of life that they was living in themselves when they was younger. So they're just trying to share, you know, if you tell me, man, don't go down that block. It's a hole right there in the ground, man. I can get around that hole. So it's hard sometimes when you're young because we did the same thing.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

We just didn't do it to the level of maybe violence or stupidity that some people do it today. But I just think it's hard for people to hear it. And they think it's not going to be me. Yeah, wallow, you did 20. But oh gee, that ain't gonna be me. I'm smarter than that. What you gonna do?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right?

[Wallow]

You know what I mean? So until they get there and then now I'm talking to em on their phone. Cause they uncle called me. Yo, we called Wallow, man, you was right. Oh, so it took you to get 30 years for you to be right? You still got it. You still got it smart.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Why you couldn't learn from wallow experience. Why did you have to go experience it for? He already did it. He already told you the path that you was traveling down, where was gonna land you. But you ain't want to hear that.

[Wallow]

And you gotta think about this. The street game is a game. It's a game, okay? If you play Monopoly, how many people could win? Probably one. If you become an athlete of a game, how many of y'all really gonna go to the NFL? How many of y'all really gonna go to the NBA? How many y'all? Do you know how many people play basketball in America? And how many people is in the league? It's not a lot, right? How many people is in football? It's not a lot. How many people? So you gotta think about this. It's a game that majority of the people lose. And the reality is, like, I always tell people, this is me from me being in prison. You show me 10 dudes in a gang, or you show me 10 dudes that's from a corner. You show me 10 dudes, I'm gonna show you seven dudes that's gonna tell on them anyway. So the mask don't mean nothing. None of this. All this stuff is cac. Everything that we thought it was is cap. Because we live in a world where everybody is. So they choosing them first. Do you think Lil Bobby is gonna go to jail when they ready to give him 15, 20, whatever? And he never been to jail before. You think he leaving Keisha with that nice little sexy, beautiful body? You think he leaving her and his mom gonna come in that interrogation room? Bobby, you better tell what they done. We see it all the time, but we think. My homies ain't gonna tell on me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That ain't gonna be me.

[Wallow]

Your homies gonna tell on you. They gonna tell.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Do you think?

[Wallow]

Like, what.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What about. You know, they used to have this show. I think it was called Scared Straight.

[Wallow]

Yeah, that was my show.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, we gonna take you. Cause we see where you guys are headed. You. I mean, a lot of you guys are in alternative schools or you in juvie. And so we're gonna show you where you're headed. This is the. This is the. The recipe that you're cooking up right now is gonna lead to this perfect dish right here. So we're gonna give you an opportunity to see where you don't wanna be. Do you think they think it's cool to be in prison? You said a lot of these guys that rap about it. Ain't never been there.

[Wallow]

No. You know what's crazy? I'm not even gonna hold you. And I'm gonna just talk about me growing up. Me growing up. I seen some vicious. Do you remember blood in, blood out. You remember the penitentiary move? I seen some vicious movies. I seen it on TVs and all that stuff. But I thought I was smart enough. I don't think a lot of people think they gonna make it there, right? So until you make it there and you like me, I get there and I'm like, I get to prison and you know when I. When that big gate closed behind me and I'm on that bus, I'm praying to every guy that I could think of, like, please help me. Please. Please don't let these people take me. They don't take my innocence. Please.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right?

[Wallow]

I'm scared to death because, you know, I seen. You know, when I walk through the hallway, first after, they tell me, as I get out the shower, dude, tell them, wash it up. Shower like a minute. Get up out of there. Wash them balls. Get that crabs and lights up. Off you get up, throw your stuff. Or you get your little box. And ladies say, in case of emergency, where you want your body sent? I'm like, what type of shit? I didn't. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I thought I just happened to do some time. I ain't talking about no dying.

[Wallow]

I'm a juvenile that just committed an adult crime and they certified me as adult. Well, why we gotta die? Like, what's going on? Why I gotta die? Please don't. Like, could you call my mom and let me get out? She peeped the fear in my eyes. And she said. She reworded the word no, baby. Like, in case of a. She said baby to me, too. So she let. She peeped that I'm really a kid. She, like, in case of anything happened, who you want us to call? Like, emergency. You help him out. And then I grabbed that box. I went in that hallway. Greatest for prison. I seen the biggest black man I ever seen. He'll make you look like a midget. He was so big, it was like he was lifting weights in places. I didn't know you could lift weights. He was so big, coming out the joint with a tank top on. And when I seen him, it's like, he coming. I look down at the ground like, oh, my God, he gonna get me.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah.

[Wallow]

Cause I'm not one of these dudes out here that's talking. Like, I thought my ass was on the line when I Went to prison. I was scared, right? I'm not telling you. Like I was tough. All that tough shit that I threw, I knew and I thought I was on the street, that shit went out the way when I got to the penitentiary. Cause I'm like, somebody gonna get. I always thought that somebody was gonna get me. And then now you start, you realize that you're not doing days, you're doing years, you're doing decades. It get real. Oh, that get real.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But is it, is it the allure that got you into it? Was it the allure of fast money, quick money? Was it a lifestyle that you wanted to have that you weren't willing to go, say, work a fast food job or work your way up? What was it about that life that attracted wallow to it?

[Wallow]

Because when I grew up, I realized quick that America respect the successful criminal. So when I'm sitting on the steps, Shannon and I see Mike pull up with the bins, the gold chain on the music blasting. And when he come up to get the most beautiful. He pulling up in this bins to get the most beautifulest girl in the neighborhood. She's the most beautifulest girl in the neighborhood. When he pull up, I noticed that. I ain't just noticing. I ain't watching him. I'm watching Ms. Jackson, Ms. Brown, Ms. Green. You know what they saying to him? Hey, baby. I'm like, oh, shit. And then as the girl get in the car, they all speak and say, hey, ma'am. But when I see Mr. Mr. James come home from work and he walking down the street, he's a plumber, he all dirty, don't nobody speak to him. Ms. Brown, Ms. Jackson, miss. They don't speak to him. This in the 80s. It's showtime, baby. I'm talking about, this is. I'm talking about. I didn't see Mr. James name on the marquee. I seen the dude with the Ben's name on the marquee. The lights is shining. This is prime time, baby. He got the chain on the pinky ring, the Rolex watch on the music blasting, ice tea high roller coming out of the bins. This shit is movie shit. I'm like, I got to be him. He's a superhero. Not Mr. James.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, they speak to him. They look down on me.

[Wallow]

They look down on Mr. James. Mr. James, he's a hard working man in the ghettos of America. Black man. I said, I gotta be him. I gots to be him.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You went viral when you broke into tears telling Lil Durk not to retaliate in King Barnsdale.

[Wallow]

You. You know, it was so emotional because Dirk, he said, I need you to come here, right? He said, we could do it in Miami, whatever. But I need you to come in because I need you to talk to these. That's what he told me. He said, I need you to talk to him while I need you to talk to him. I said, all right. I got him. And when I get there. I didn't know it was going to be that many. It was like a hundred of them. We in the basement in Chicago, it's a hundred of them.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And them niggas, they ready to ride.

[Wallow]

Yeah. No, they just was there, you know.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay. They wanted to hear what you wanted. Us.

[Wallow]

No, it wasn't even that. They didn't even know why they was there. Durk was like, we gonna do it in the hood. I want you to holler at them. Boom, boom, boom. So I'm like, I got you. When I got there, I'm like. He like, man, listen, I need you to holler at him. It just so happened that when I'm talking to him, I understand. Cause I'm talking to a couple of them on the side. And I understand that nothing is more important in the ghetto than revenge. Revenge is king.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

Closest thing to God, because the black man is willing to die about his ego. The ego killed more black men than any other disease. Nothing killed black men more than the ego. That ego of you hit me, Shannon. People saw it. I can't let you go. You gotta die about this shit. And my mama raised me, so I grew up soft. I ain't had no structure of no father there. So I'm just emotional. So when I'm in there, I'm telling them I had to. It was emotional for me because I'm letting them know, the man that killed my brother, I forgave him. Am I a coward? Am I a punk? I don't know what that shit mean. But I knew that forgiving him mean that I was willing to live for my brother in an environment where we celebrate dying for somebody. I said, no, I'm going to live for my brother. My grandma, my brother, kids, my mama. I'm going to live for them. Because don't nobody talk about that. But I know that I'm going to just speak straight up. I know that I'm not built to die right now. Because I know it's more things that I got to do. And I know I got a responsibility. That was my older brother. You think what I'm saying? So it's like I got to step up. I got to be a man. So I got to think as a man would think, not as a street would think that would die about his ego and leave his babies, leave his mama, you know, tear down the community about the ego. My ego wasn't built like that. I wasn't that strong to have that type of ego. I wasn't cut like that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

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[Shannon Sharpe]

You mentioned that you had to forgive your brother's killer. How long did it take you? Because they say forgiveness is not for the person that wronged an individual. The forgiveness is for the person that's been wronged.

[Wallow]

May May came to see me. So my niece, she come to see me the week after her dad get killed. This the first time I meet this little girl I'm talking about, she was like 5, 4, 5. She was like probably 4 or 5, but she was like 50. So when she came in there she run around and visited him. She jumped on my lap. She said, oh, will you come home? You're not. You not leaving? You're not coming back, is you? I'm like, no, I'm not coming back. She said, I need you to take me here. She telling me all this stuff and my nephew there, too. I'm just talking to him, and I'm like, damn this somebody finally counting on me. Somebody looking at me in a way I never had. Nobody looked at me. You see what I'm saying? In that way, my little brother, I was always in the penitentiary. So my little brother Jalal, we really didn't have the time. So I'm like, damn, this little person looking at me like that. She putting a lot of power and a lot of energy on me. And so I already had it in my mind. Because I'm gonna just tell you. I'm gonna just tell you something, Shannon. I'm not built like that to go kill no black man. I'm not built like that. I'm not designed like that. I'm not tough like that. I'm not ruthless like that. I'm not heartless like that. That's just not me. And my worst is fear. In the history of life, I don't give a how I die. I don't care what happened. But if a black man killed me, you gonna hear my scream until life end for everybody. You gonna hear my pain. You're gonna hear.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You gonna.

[Wallow]

You're gonna. My tears is gonna flood the ghettos of America. I don't care about nothing else, but don't let me go out like that. So I said to myself, I ain't built like that to be. Why wouldn't you dead? Because I don't know. Listen, I don't know what happened that night, why it happened. Only thing I know is my brother got shot. He ran to my grandma's house. She opened the door, he died of an arm. I ain't built like that to see nobody else squad like that. I ain't built like that. I ain't cut like that, Shannon, I'm just now, I ain't designed like that. Just because you hurt Nanny, I don't want to hurt your grandma. For what? If I hurt your grandma? When the shit gonna stop?

[Shannon Sharpe]

It's a continuous cycle. You said that by not retaliating, it gave you the freedom to spend time with your family.

[Wallow]

When I got out of jail, right? I ain't have a lot, but I had everything. Because I remember something back in the day, in the Ghetto, we ain't had nothing, but we had each other. So we had everything. So I'm like, damn. I told her I was gonna take her to these places that I ain't even know. I ain't even know. I ain't even know. I had to. I ain't even know I had to take it to him, right? Cause I ain't know these places. I just was telling her I'm in jail. She's like, you gonna take me here? Yeah, I know that. I'm just listening to her on the phone. I got you. I'm gonna take you there. So when I get there, I'm like, you ain't telling me this shit cost all this money, you know? You know, I'm going to budget. I ain't know. We. It said five below. I go in there, I spend $50. God damn. They said five below. I'm thinking, I'm gonna get a bunch of stuff for $5, right? So she got me in there. Mom, don't be buying all. I'm like, I got to. I gotta. I just wanted to show up. Not just financially. I wanted to show up mentally, emotionally. I wanted to show up for them. And that was my whole thing. So it was like, bang. That was all it was about, was living for them and being able to see them. Them to see me. For me to be an example to my niece and nephew and them. And even for my grandma, like, boy, you could do something with yourself. Because I wanted to prove Nanny right. She always said, you special. But I'm like, special. What you mean? Why would I be special? I'm thinking, she crazy telling me I'm special. I live in the ghetto. I didn't know you could be special coming from the ghetto.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Dirk said this mofo really dropping tears for this ish. Do you feel like he heard what you were saying? Do you feel like the guy. Not only did they listen, because a lot of times people listen to respond, but did they listen to understand what you were saying?

[Wallow]

I hollered at a lot of them. Afterwards, someone would call me. It's not about them listening. It's about conditioning. It's about environmental. You can listen to everything that I say, but a lot of time, as I'm still growing, I don't have the resources to remove you from the danger that you're up against every day. A lot of things, these young plovers, they do here, they smart. A lot of them are smart. But their environment don't allow them to grow. Because I can't move out of this environment right here. And I know them dudes down them block, they want to kill me. I got to protect myself. I want to kill. So it's deep. We tell these kids a lot of things and all we do is criticize young black male every way possible. We criticize them as much as possible, but we don't bring no resources. You know how many people make money off of just criticizing us and talking down on. Not just us, it's black people, but they don't got no. Okay, you criticizing us. You got all these gigantic platforms. What we doing is cool, Shannon. But these got huge media platforms where they just want to tear the people down in the black community, but they ain't coming up with no solution and they ain't bringing no funding. So I could tell these young brothers this, that, and the third, but they still got to take care of their baby. And they got to figure out the only way that they know. And in order to really take somebody to another level, you gotta have time, energy and resources to deprogram them so you can reprogram them. The programming was hit. The dehumanization of black people by black people was strong. This is some shit that we done. It started from when a little boy is young and he playing on the swing and he fall, he start crying. Boy, be tough.

[DraftKings Representative]

Don't cry.

[Wallow]

We are taught to ignore and bury our emotions and our feelings and our vulnerability. That's not cool. That's not tough. So all that, all that stuff right there is a real big programming that took place by us alone. So how do we come about of that? It's gonna be deep. It's gonna take a lot.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How does one outgrow the environmental aspects? The constraints in which he or she is brought up in, if they're not removed from that environment because the fish is only gonna get so big if the tank is not conducive for it to grow. A tree is only gonna get so big if their environment is not conducive. So if you just put it. If you put a tree in a tub, it's only going to get as big as the tub allow. Now, if you take that tree out of a tub and let it grow in a 50 acre field, it can grow, it can flourish. How difficult is it to reprogram? You say reprogram so I can program in the right aspect. How difficult is it to do that?

[Wallow]

In the history of our community, the people that was able to do that, it was multiple. It was multiple. It was. It was a few, a few educational Relocation is the greatest thing that happened to college. See, a lot of people talk, oh, you don't need college. We understand that. You might come out, have bills, but college expose you to other cultures. See, the hood lack exposure to the world. And a lot of times you don't. Never think about everybody that left. Mostly everybody that left. You never really see them come back. Cause they see, they meet other towns they go to, they get relationships with people and it's just. And they go, they go and they see the world. They the ones that come back most of the time. Them people that go and get the education, they're the strongholds of the family. They're the ones that the family count on. Call your uncle, call your aunt. She down there. She's a doctor, she's a lawyer. She. We gotta start educating ourselves, making sure the kids is educated, putting books in their hand over tablets. We gotta start there. Because I'm not gonna say we had the point of no return, but some people just stuck. And they're using that as a badge of honor. Sometimes in our hood, ignorance is a badge of honor. It's a cool thing nobody wanted. You know, we can't say that about. Because anytime black people say things about black people, they ain't supposed to say that out loud or whatever. I don't know how that goes. Yeah, but sometimes it's a badging outer. Oh, I'm this. Think about it. We. We put on a pedestal. The criminals American way. The American way. At the end of the day, we love the successful criminal. We love Tony Soprano, we love Scarface. We love Michael Couleon. This is proof. The judge, the lawyer, the district attorney. The presidents, all them people, they love the movies. So the programming is deep.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How difficult is it to really break a cycle when, you know, you see a father that goes to jail, he had brothers that go to jail. And now you see a kid, the only thing that he knows is disruption, corruption. How difficult is that?

[Wallow]

Walter? I'm a product of generational incarceration. My stepfather Hip, he was in Dallas Penitentiary in the 80s. Me and him were cellmates in Dallas Penitentiary by 1998. By 2005, me and my brother Steve was cellmates in Dallas Penitentiary. And there's a picture of me, it's inside of the book. Me, Hip and Steve on a visit when I was a kid. And I want. We all wound up being in that same prison.

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[Wallow]

[e-mail] It's a cycle because prison is. Prison is a. You got to think about this. There's. There's the ghettos of America build communities. And when I say the ghettos of America build communities, this is what happened as we do so much crime in the inner cities of America. There are small towns in America. Middle of Pennsylvania, middle of Ohio, middle of California, where, oh, population is up. Then one day you just see this landfill. You see some construction workers come and Then a truck, these, these 18 wheelers come, a bunch of them and they start putting these new prisons together like Legos. Then the gas station, they build a gas station. Then a Walmart park up, then a hotel pop up. We building communities and I'm gonna tell you a story. Deep one. It was this guard named Ski. I used to go back and forth with him on the tier because he just. I used to always speak up because he'd go in people's cells when they in the yard and do checking. You ain't supposed to be in nobody. I used to say little stuff. So we used to battle. One day he set me down.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I.

[Wallow]

Go to the, to the bubble to get some legal mail. Because when you get the legal mail, you gotta sign for it. And he said something strong to me. I never forgot this. He said, come here, peoples. That's my last name. I said, what man? What you want, man? I'm just signing for my mail. He said, look, he opened up his shirt. In between his shirt and his vest, because they had a stab proof vest. He pulled out an envelope. The envelope was folded. He opened the envelope, it was a picture. He put the picture down, says, I'm signing for my what's name. He opened legal mail. I stopped before I leave, I stopped. He said, you and the homies, man. You and the homies being sarcastic, using the word homie. You and the homies took care of you thanks to you and the homies. I'm like, I looked at the picture, it was his son standing in front of a big house with a pickup truck and a big boat there. You and the homies got me that. Usually I have a verbal, little verbal spar, winning. But he stuck me that day. I couldn't, I was wounded. So I just walked back to the cell and sat on the bed and I said, damn, ain't me and none of the homies never bought our mom no house. We never sent our kids to college. But you know how many kids, you know how many homes and kids is going to college that me and the homies is taking? Me and the homies doing that. But it ain't going to our community. We taking care of families, we taking care of generational. Because in prisons you have with nepotism, you got the warden. The warden's brother is the security captain. His other brother is the lieutenant. His sister is the head of the medical. The other cousin is the head of the gymnasium. The other cousin is the activity director. The other cousin is the head of the workforce. You walk inside of prison. You see 15 family members that go home every day and 15 family members that don't. That's the prison system in America. So it's deep. It's deep, and it's going to take a lot to break that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Why is it that a lot of times that you see rappers and they rap about that they've made money, millions, and they still go back to that culture? Why can't they let that go? Why can't they escape that?

[Wallow]

Because in the ghetto, everything is about ego. You gotta prove to the dudes, the ops or the. Whoever they are, everybody want to prove to the people that they're doing better than that. They still real. You mean you real. You just bought your mama house. That's real enough. But it got to be, you know, people want to prove that. I ain't no chump. I ain't no turkey. Listen, let me tell you something, man. You just rap some songs, right? I'm talking about, you went in the studio, rap some songs. You got that publishing money. You got the, you know, a bunch of money. It depends on how your deal structure. You got all that tour money. You got 10, 15 million in the bank. I think it's about time to start being a man. I think it's about time to start being a. I'm just being real because, you know, I'm not the one designed and I'm not built like that to tell you some. Shannon, to say be tough. No, everybody else telling you to be tough. I'm not gonna tell you that. I think because all the rich people, I don't think they trying to worry about what somebody saying about them from a neighborhood that's still trying to figure out life. So I think it's cool to be. Not be that tough no more, man.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Master P said something last night on our live show. He said, sometimes, man, people be trying to get you to trick off your position. Like you in a great position, and they get you.

[Wallow]

Oh, no, no. A lot of people foul out. They get you to crash out.

[DraftKings Representative]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Cause you said you told them, look, look, you gonna finesse yourselves out of this position. Your family life. You got your family in a great situation, and you gonna let somebody finesse you out of it.

[Wallow]

But. But what did I tell you earlier in the interview? The ego is the number one killer of black man. It's the number one finesser out of the position. Like Shannon, how many people say some crazy stuff about you? Just imagine if you just, you know, if you. If you. If you just reacted to everything a lot of times it don't even be. A lot of times, it don't even be that people don't like you. It be that people can't get around you and utilize your resources and utilize you. A lot of people, you see them, you might see somebody say something on the joint. I know you got a memory. You be like, they see you, Shannon, what's up? You be like, why you say that stuff about me, man? No, man, I was just. No, man. A lot of people just be wanting to hug Shannon. They just be wanting some love. They just be wanting to get embraced, and they don't know how to go about that. You utilize the proper channels to say, damn, Shannon, I'm trying to do something with you, man. The time, right? At the time, right? Can I get on your show? Or whatever it may be, people don't know how to do that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You know what? You recently sat down with Kodak back and you had a conversation with him about his drug use. Well, let me ask you a question. How do you determine who? I mean, if they reach out, you willing to sit down and talk to anybody, chop it up, have convo with anybody that reaches out? How do you go about who you sit down and talk to and impart wisdom on?

[Wallow]

Oh, no, you can feel that shit. You can feel it. Because when you doing it, you can just feel it and you can spit and, you know, I still know what's going on. You moving around, you know what's going on. And everybody with these artists is sad. Most of their teams and management's the pussies. They got a bunch of yes men around them. A person is not. They care more about getting a check off them than this person living. These people don't be giving a about these young bloods because they don't come from it. So they don't understand it. Now, the ones that don't come from it, and they're afraid of it, cool. But if you come from it, it's your duty to put the check in on them. Like, come on, man, Somebody got to be in line to your check. Everybody's scared of. Came with some joints, I'm like, damn, everybody's scared of this. Yo, my man, what you doing, nephew? Oh, what's up? Is you doing, man? Type of drugs you using, man, I done walk the rooms on people like that. Like, damn, you bigger than this, man. You know what? You. You got the babies you got, and that's a lot of them. But, you know, you just feel the energy of what to tell. You know how, sir, You. You.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You talk. You kind of touched on this circle of friends. And I'm a firm believer that you have people in your corner that tell you what you need to know, not what you want to hear. Now, you said something very interesting. Because, see, if I tell you what you need to know, you gonna stop the bus, wallow, and ask me to get off. Bro, I need that reflective shine. Cause when you walk up in the club, I'm with Wallow. They see Wallow popping bottles. Hey, I ain't Wallow, but I'm with Wallow. So I know what comes along with that, that I can't ask you to. I can't tell you what's real and say Wallow. Man, you. Hey, you effing up because you gonna stop the bus and ask me to get off.

[Wallow]

And now I can't get no reflection. But see, Wallow is only popping pure fuel. I'm not gonna pop the bottles. I'm just saying make sure you go get that official hydrate, hydration drink and fill up your sister in the Chicago sky. I'm owner.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But listen, the tropical punch, he's drinking a watermelon.

[Wallow]

Yeah, but I don't drink. I don't smoke.

[Shannon Sharpe]

But I'm saying. But you understand what I'm saying?

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

That if I tell you the truth, you're gonna stop the bus, you're gonna ask me to get off, and I can't go with you. You're not gonna.

[Wallow]

That's not always the time. But you know what? They gotta double back. Because sometimes they don't always happen. But it need to be done because they come back when they in prison or whatever happened or somebody. They gonna come back, but somebody gotta do it. Somebody gotta do it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Celeb. You've been. You've been to prison.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And you. Hey, you not. You weren't famous. So you in gpoc.

[Wallow]

Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You got diddy and you got R. Kelly.

[Wallow]

I was in gp. I was in gp. Right, Right. But I wanted to be in PC some days because it got a little brutal in there.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I can imagine.

[Wallow]

Yeah. We wanted to slide up in PC like, it's a little. This day. Too many stabbings, man. Let me just. Y'all need. Y'all got some space back there. Y'all need somebody to move. Y'all need myself. I wish some days I wanted to be in PC.

[Shannon Sharpe]

How difficult. How much. How different is it for celeb being in a situation than a regular sal. Regular civil.

[Wallow]

I think it's different. It depends on what environment you in. Federal State, it depends. I just think I never seen nobody come in there and then have any problems. That was celebrity when I was in prison.

[Shannon Sharpe]

You knew some celebs that came in.

[Wallow]

There when you was in there? Yeah, some came through, but it wasn't like they wasn't on narrow level. That's a megastar. People will be in there just fanning out sometime. You be shocked, man. Dudes be in jail, man. Everybody. It ain't all what the movies play out. Especially if you ain't got no problem with nobody, you know, I mean. But I ain't saying somebody won't press you like, yo, man, I need this money, send it to me. You know, I don't know that, you know, but did that really happen? Yeah, it happened. It happened.

[Shannon Sharpe]

To get protection, you got to get protection in there.

[Wallow]

No, I ain't saying you got to get a protection, but somebody might press you, man. Somebody might be doing life. You might come in there, you might have some. You might have had to get money, not even on a debt level, right. And then you might got to send somebody and people might gotta get some people some money. That's all. Yeah.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Let me ask you a question. Is it true Gilly started the Million Dollar Worth of game podcast? How do you. I mean, you get out. So how did you guys. How did he have the foresight and the forethought to come up with a million dollars worth of game and say, you know what? My homie just did a bed cousin.

[Wallow]

No, this is what happened. I'm gonna tell you what happened. When I was in the joint, he was doing a million dollars worth of game on Instagram.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Okay?

[Wallow]

2012, let me give you a million dollars worth of game. Boom.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He was, he was popping it, right?

[Wallow]

So when I get home, See, one thing about this is like this. The great thing about me and cuz, we know our rules. I'm more of the researcher. I'm more of that person. I'm more. I'm gonna get with you. Cause when. When these people start talking and we gotta get legal involved, we gotta go sit down, then I'm gonna call you, but I'm gonna go do that. Okay, you sit down. You do what you gonna do. You did enough. You. You build a. You, you build a whole following before I came home. I'm gonna add value to it because I'm one of these type of players. I'm a player like this. If your name is on the marquee, Shannon, and I'm really about you, I'm going to get your Water. I'm making sure you right. Damn. What you need, man? You see how your brother came over here? I don't know who that brother was. Made sure you was right. It was no ego involved.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, I ain't finna be no dude boy. I ain't doing all that water.

[Wallow]

Hold on, I'm just saying. See, that's your problem. That's why you gotta go back down the way. Come on, you ain't going on the road, baby. Go home. See, that's why you gotta go home. But that's the problem. I knew we had different parts to play. That's why we work so good, you know what I'm saying? So one day, he already doing that on Instagram. We doing our thing. We had already had content on Instagram. Just the everyday content, riding the car, all that type of stuff. I'm up 4 o'clock in the morning and I like to read articles. I think it was on Apple News. I love reading articles to get information. So it said, Spotify allocate 400 million to podcasters in the first quarter of 2019. I called him early in the morning, I said, yo, he all, man, what the. Yo, get up. Read that article. I just text you that article. Read that shit. Read it, please, cuz, he read it. So when he read it, he called me back, he said, yo, we gotta get this rolling. We gotta crack out the mics. Talking about podcast. Yeah, at that time, Maurice Corrette, that's my homeboy brother from another. He used to always call me like, wallow, you and Gil gotta start a podcast. He called me and Gil, y'all, y'all gotta start a pocket. Whatever. This the first time that this dude woke up and I'm like this. He called me back and I'm like, he ain't gonna. I'll talk to him later. He called me back, he was like, cuz, we gotta do it. Crack the mic. They gave out all that money that day. I called my homeboy, Nick Rich, graphic designer, said, I need a logo. That afternoon he had the logo. I called, I called my attorney, Shay M. Lawson. I said, shay, I need this trademarked. We'll get the LLC, all got anything done. Got the LLC, all that. Boom. April 17th, we dropped the first episode. A million dollars worth. Worth a game. It went number two in comedy on podcast, on Apple, and number four in all categories in like seven hours. I said, we got something, baby. We got something. And we just, we just, we just started knocking. I said, cuz, this is what I'm gonna Do. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get a deck created, and I'm gonna take all our social media and this is the business of podcasts. I'm gonna take our social media following. Cause he had a. A million. I had a half a million. I said, I'm gonna take our social media following. I'm gonna put that on the deck, and I'm gonna tell sponsors, people that want to be sponsors, I'm gonna tell them this. If you sponsor on this show, every time we put a clip up on. On our page, because million dollars worth of game, that is gonna be a million dollars worth of game page. On Gilly and wallow page, we're gonna tag sponsored by Shannon Sharp. Show whatever, whoever you is. He said, all right, do your thing, cousin. I said, all right, I got you. One of the first places I went was to a funeral home. I go to a funeral home because I went to this funeral, right? Boyd's funeral home, right? And Asia was like. She was like. She was at the funeral home. Licensed, nice looking sister. But my homie, that nigga looked like he was still living in the casket. I said, you bad. So I go there, I said, listen, I got a package for you. My sister from another mother mirror. She hooked up the decks for me and the different entries of sponsorship, right? So I go to her. I said, listen. She said, yeah, I want to do something like this. I want you to market this joint. And this is when I'm just learning and creating my personal business of podcasting. So I said, all right, I got you. She paid me. I think she probably gave me like 20,000 for four. For four minutes, right? A minute. This is how I was selling it. I was selling minutes by. You get on each show, you get a minute worth of advertisement. Your logo gonna pop up, your number gonna pop up. Everything gonna pop up, and I'm gonna run it down. So she said, all right, cool. Paid me the money. I said, all right, let me go. I went and done the ad. By the time I got to the secondary. Cause we only do four shows a month, one a week. By the time I got to the secondary, she called me. Wallow, stop. I said, what's up? She said, I ain't got enough work. I'm getting too many bodies, baby. I get in too many bodies. Because the episode come on. This episode of million dollars worth of game is brought to you by Boys Funeral Home. One thing about life, you're going to die one day, and when you die, you want to be laying in the casket Looking like you living. Even though you did. You want to be looking like you're going to get up out of the casket. You want to be looking like, wow. I want to look like that even by the living. While you laying in the ca. I'm breaking it down. She was like, it was that next thing. Springfield Hyundai. I go to them, bang. They say, listen, we're gonna give y'all 25,000amonth. Four minutes back. Let's do it, baby. I'm coming back, Gil. Like I said, yeah, baby. I wasn't going off of CPMs and all that other stuff they were doing. I'm creating my own industry and business. You gotta. You gotta know your value. When you bring value, to value it increase your value. I knew that we was valuable. I knew people. I knew people wanted. I knew they wanted brand visibility because we was cultural, right? But I also. I'm also a good partner. Whereas, though I wanted to be mutually beneficial, we doing business. I need to make sure you're getting taken care of. Forget what you've given me, right? I. I'm not gonna feel right if I know Dan Shannon gave us all this money, man, and we didn't do. That's not business, right? So we popping it. It just kept popping, popping, popping. One day, I get the most scariest call in my life. I'm in the crib, phone went into answer number. This before when I was answering numbers. And I ain't know what it. I mean, I ain't had no money there, right? So I said, how you doing? This is Wallow, right? I said, yeah, this Wallow. Is Gilly around? I said, yeah. He said, this is about the podcast. I said, all right. Called Gil. Yo, man, got somebody on the phone. He said, hi, Gil. How you doing? He said, yo, what's up, man? Gil like, who this man? Not Gil B. He said, hi, I'm Courtney Holt. So me, I'm a vicious researcher. I'm like, this one out of the phone. I sent it to Gil. Screenshot. I said, oh, shit. This dude, this dude that ran it, he's the head of Spotify at the time. I'm like, how did. I'm saying to myself, how you get my number? In culture, you don't gotta ask nobody to do nothing for you. When you pop into you hot, the people that need to find you, gonna find you. It ain't about nobody reposting. They gonna find you. I don't know how he got my number. So now I'm on the phone, and I'm like, I Said. He said, what do you guys want? I said. I said, what you talking about? I said, no. What do you want? He said, no. How much money do you guys want? Now I'm stuck because I don't even know what to tell selling. I'm stuck. But it's like I said, we want ownership. We want all our ip. We want to keep owning our ip. Yes, he said, we want your ip. So how much money do you want? I'm gonna join Texas, Gill. This getting spooky, Gil, because I don't. I think this like, some movies, some that, you know, when they tell you go into the other room, I'm like, oh, this. I'm like, oh, right. So I'm like, all right, can I have my lawyer? You see, I'm going to text you the email. Let's get on the email chain. And our legal will get involved. When they start talking about legal, you know this is real, right? It's game time.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yes.

[Wallow]

I'm like, bet. Gil was like, who was that? I said, I don't know, man. That I sent him all this. I'm like, that was scary. I was sweating on the call because, I mean, you know. You know, I never had. Because, I mean, I'm still trying to come up. That's when we got in the game. We had them to be negotiating with them. We negotiated with Barstool. It was. And it turned us up. But at the same time, I'm already getting the money from our own sponsorship. I'm already doing it. I'm getting a bunch of money. We doing it. We killing. I'm doing all the. All the brand deals, all that stuff. We was killing it.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Normally, people say, don't do anything with family, but you and Gilly seem to work. How did you know that it was going to work? And you guys go 50, 50 on everything. Yeah, how did you know? Because family, man, sometimes wallow, man. You know, family do you bad.

[Wallow]

One thing about Cuz. Cuz and me and Cuz ain't got no ego. I could check him and it's done right there. He could check me and it's done right there. Because if we wrong, we wrong. If we right, we right, we don't. And then we not in competition with each other. Like, I'm so like, you gotta understand this. You gotta understand this. I'm so excited for him right now in this moment, because simply because the Eagles is winning. And this dude, when I say he loved the Eagles. Oh, yeah, man, listen. When I say he loved the Eagles, he told me he Said cuz we was on bustle with the boys. He said, I want to have sex with my wife for a year. If the Eagles could win the super bowl.

[Shannon Sharpe]

They gotta win by 10 Super Bowls.

[Wallow]

But that's what he said. So I be so happy that. Listen, Eagles is my team now. You know what I mean?

[Shannon Sharpe]

Right?

[Wallow]

I don't really, you know, I bounce around. People know I got different teams a year. I'm just saying. I'm just being real. This the first time in the history of my life that I've been faithful to a team for a whole season. I never done this shit in my life. I usually bounce around, especially in the playoffs. Oh, they got dropped out your new jersey. I pulled my jersey out. You know what I mean? I don't even know where my jersey's at, but I'm gonna just say that like we so excited for each other. We always championing each other when we win. That's stiff, bro. You don't see that everybody want to compete with each other. When we supposed to eat with each other? We just not doing that. We ain't built like that. We just not built like that.

[Shannon Sharpe]

What made you guys sign with Barstool? Because talk to Port.

[DraftKings Representative]

No.

[Shannon Sharpe]

And he's like, hey, yeah, we signed him. But we didn't really know because I mean, culturally and fan base wise, I mean, that's not where they. That's not where we are. And their culture and their fan base is kind of not where we are. But it's a match that works, you know?

[Wallow]

You know why? Because we was going back and forth with Spotify. They was cool. Spotify wanted to box us in because Spotify, they take you off of YouTube and say, you over here now. The visuals. You can't put the whole show. It was like that. I'm like, no, what about our people? Everybody ain't got no money for no subscription for that, right? Bars too. Was like, not only was he gonna give you the paper, not only do we don't want to own your iPad, but we gonna make sure y'all still stay over there so y'all can do what y'all do. Whatever y'all want to do. Dave. And when we signed Dave and Eric and Ardini was so real. When they met up with us, it was like they didn't play. They asked us for a number. I said it, but I, I should have said the number too early.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little low number. You should have went a little high.

[Wallow]

Because you know when they. I'm just thinking about. Cause I was broke at the time. I wasn't broke, but I was jbm, just barely making it. Yeah. So I'm like, damn. So I'm like. So I told them, I said, this, this the first deal. I say, listen, we. We in demons that's out of Philadelphia. They come down and get on the train, come see me and Gil. We go there. Gil said, you got it. Go ahead, go ahead, cuz, I'm at the table. He said, we just. 36 month, you know, distribution deal. You know, the whole thing. Say how much? I'm thinking I'm popping my shit. I said, three more years. Cool. She said, all right.

[Shannon Sharpe]

I said, ah, man, hey, you know you done screwed up. You know you screwed up the video. You said 3D.

[Wallow]

Said D. I didn't even get the 3 million out because I'm like, damn. Now I'm sitting there, I'm like. Gil kicked me like. But he said, you. I told you to say something. I said, damn, nigga, what you want me to say? You know what I mean? We shook our hand, signed it, you know, I mean, Lori got the information, you know, all that shit, right? But it's. But it was like. It was like, now I ain't gonna hold you. What we did in two and a half years into that contract, man.

[Hypnotic Representative]

The.

[Wallow]

First offer that came through, and they're renegotiating. Cause now we ready to start a bid war. Cause we ready. We gotta leave. We gotta leave or join. Coming up, the first joint that came through, 25 million, 36 months licensing deal. That was the first deal Dave told me. He said it on the pot. I got a blank check for y'all. He meant that. Cause Dave. Dave is a little different.

[Shannon Sharpe]

He definitely different. Having talked to him, he different.

[Wallow]

And one thing I say about Dave that I. Dave don't respect money, respect loyalty. He don't care about money.

[Shannon Sharpe]

Don't like.

[Wallow]

It's. It is different when you got.

[Hypnotic Representative]

When it's tip off time at my house, there are a few things that are must haves on my checklist. My fellow friends and fans. Check. My favorite jersey. It is good luck. Check. An iconic drink that's a fan favorite.

[Wallow]

Check.

[Hypnotic Representative]

Hypnotic can turn any cocktail into an iconic creation. With its game changing color and tropical flavor, Hypnotic should be in everyone's starting five. I consider Hypnotic the point guard on my game day roster. Because not only is it versatile, like having it on the rocks or as a base for cocktails, it also finishes smooth. So grab a bottle of Hypnotic and make your next basketball watch party iconic. Enjoy the vibrant taste with friends and turn every game into a memorable celebration. Hypnotic where every sip is a slam dunk. Hypnotic Liqueur Bardstown, Kentucky 17% alcohol by volume Hypnotic Reminds you to think wisely.

[Cheap Caribbean Representative]

Drink wisely with the best All Inclusive Vacation Deals to Mexico and the Caribbean Booking your getaway with Cheap Caribbean Vacations means you have more freedom to do your deal. Whether you want to enjoy snorkeling, endless margaritas and more, or simply soak up the sun and sand in a tropical paradise, Cheap Caribbean Vacations has your deal for that. Plan and book the exact getaway you want at exactly the right price for you by using our extra exclusive Budget Beach Finder. Or find a featured all inclusive package to Oasis Hotels and Resorts and do your [e-mail] the Unshakables podcast is kicking.

[Gambling Helpline Representative]

Off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special guest, Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the uhoh, moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates. May apply JPMorgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 JPMorgan Chase & Company.