Deebo & Joe - Indiana beats Miami, Titans hire Saleh, former Steelers goes off on GM Omar Khan

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Deebo & Joe - Indiana beats Miami, Titans hire Saleh, former Steeler goes off on GM Omar Khan

Date: January 20, 2026
Host: James “Deebo” Harrison and Joe Hayden

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Episode Overview

This episode features former NFL stars James “Deebo” Harrison and Joe Hayden in an all-football talk edition, primarily digging into the stunning Indiana win over Miami in the National Championship, head coaching changes in the NFL—especially the Titans hiring Saleh—and passionate takes about the Pittsburgh Steelers’ front office drama. The hosts break down games, analyze coaching trends, and react to both player and management news from around the league with a mix of humor, unfiltered insight, and first-hand experience.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Indiana’s Historic Win Over Miami in the National Championship

Timestamps: 03:00–14:04

• Joe’s joy at Miami losing: “The Hurricanes lost. They did not win. So I’m good. Indiana...it was a good game.” (03:08)
• Deebo gives props to Indiana: “First Hoosier quarterback to win a Heisman and a national championship. And likely, likely first overall pick.” (04:12)
• Joe on Indiana’s QB, Mendoza:
  • Praises Mendoza’s leadership, faith, play style, and intangibles: “Some people will call him corny. I call him...that’s exactly what GMs and coaches are looking for.” (04:41)
  • Breaks down Mendoza’s on-field highlights: “That fourth down play? My man went running through everybody...taking on tacklers and then doping end zone.” (04:51)
• Indiana's coaching and recruiting:
  • Joe is impressed with Coach Kirk’s strategy: “They don’t have Indiana, they don’t have like all those five-star recruits....So I think he’s doing a really good job of seeing talent that isn’t just...I’m not going to go pay these young dudes millions of dollars.” (06:01)
  • Indiana’s team average age and experience level advantage is analyzed.
• Contrast with Miami:
  • Indiana’s eight 4- or 5-star players vs. Miami’s 45, but Indiana’s players are older, more seasoned: “That’s that grown man strength you playing verse. Grown men.” (09:33)
• Changing landscape of college eligibility and transfers:
  • Deebo: “Dude, it’s wild right now, bro, the things that you could do. And then on top of that, you still could get a red shirt on it.” (10:18)
  • Joe: “If you nice though, you’re gonna go, because they gonna pay you the dough if you’re nice.” (10:36)

Notable Quotes

• Deebo: “I had to turn the channel. I said I ain’t good luck right now.” (03:47)
• Joe: “He’s a God fearing man. Some people will call him corny. I call him...that’s exactly what GMs and coaches are looking for.” (04:41)
• Joe: “That grown man strength… playing against grown men that been in there four or five years.” (09:33)

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2. NFL Head Coaching Changes & Ownership Realities

Timestamps: 14:04–37:38

Miami Dolphins & Coaching Hires

• Jeff Halfley hired as DC:
  • Joe played for him, loves his knowledge and approach (“He actually developed my game 1,000% for sure.” (15:10))
  • Deebo skeptical due to inexperience as head coach and Miami’s history: “They have had eight head coaches straight [with] no coaching experience...and they haven’t won a playoff game in 20, 25 years.” (15:47–17:44)
  • Criticism of Dolphins’ ownership, lack of stability, and focus on “the next big thing” without proven leadership.

Titans Hire Saleh as Head Coach

• Initial reactions:
  • Joe: “I think he’s a good defensive coordinator...But if I’m the Tennessee Titans, I have my number one pick, the coach I’m bringing in, I kind of want him to be more offensive minded...” (28:02)
  • Deebo: “I’m 50-50...he’s a good defensive coordinator. He was a head coach, even though it didn’t go as well, maybe learn from it.” (29:01)
• Big cap space a positive for Saleh: “I believe Tennessee is...having like a hundred million dollars in cap space. So he can go out right now and pick up the groceries that he needs.” (29:57)
• Concerns about his lackluster head coaching record (20-36) and uncertain control over staffing and draft picks.

Ownership and Team Building Philosophies

• Discussion about owners who prioritize ROI over football results:
  • Deebo: “All they want is the ROI. Investment, baby.” (27:39)
  • Joe: “That doesn’t make you the smartest man in the room to make football decisions...you have to be smart enough to know I’m not the smartest man in the room all the time.” (21:37)
• Comparisons to successful franchises like the Patriots and Steelers for their patience and knowing when to yield football decisions.

Notable Quotes

• Joe: “There’s owners that know what they’re doing, and there’s owners that just know it’s about the money.” (19:37)
• Deebo: “If you run a business...how much say does [an employee] really have?” (27:07)

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3. Buffalo Bills Job, Harbaugh, and Stefanski Drama

Timestamps: 36:09–41:57

• Bills fire McDermott after sustained success:
  • Deebo: “They also are very likely to have the least amount of patience, okay? Least amount of patience brother.” (37:41)
  • Points out McDermott’s record: 66% win rate, eight playoff wins, but still fired quickly after their playoff loss.
• Harbaugh and Stefanski ‘missed chances’:
  • Joe thinks Stefanski would have benefitted more from the Bills job: “He would have loved that job.” (40:22)
  • Deebo: “All you have to do is not mess it up.” (40:35)
• Cautions about short tenures and high expectations in Buffalo for whoever replaces McDermott.

Notable Quotes

• Deebo: “Lucky if they get four years or more on that contract…it’s probably gonna be three with a tail, brother.” (38:32)
• Joe: “Kevin Stefanski would have been so geeked...He’s a good coach, and he would have had everything in his power to support that man, Josh Allen...” (41:09)

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4. Steelers Analysis: Front Office, Contracts & Locker Room Vibes

Timestamps: 42:11–67:41

Pat Freiermuth’s Usage and Roster Decisions

• Deebo & Joe discuss the underuse of Steelers TE Pat Freiermuth:
  • “We signed him to a contract where he’s making 12 mil a year, so we should be using him. And every time he was in the game, he was balling.” (Joe, 43:33)
  • Discusses salary cap, contract structure, and why his usage signals he might be released for savings.
  • “If they let him go… there’s some significant savings on the cap.” (Deebo, 44:24)
  • “The Steelers are doing what teams do if you’re not winning. You have younger players that are in the same position with contract with on rookie deals...” (Joe, 49:27)

General Manager Omar Khan Criticized by Former Steelers

• Eric Ebron’s public critique:
  • Deebo quotes Ebron questioning Omar Khan’s respect and effectiveness as GM: “Ever since Omar took over, what have his draft picks done?” (57:08)
• Joe reviews Khan’s recent draft classes:
  • “That [2023] right there is a nice draft class, in my opinion.” (57:49)
• Deebo’s defense of Khan:
  • “I have a good relationship with Omar...He’s went from the bottom to the top...” (58:35)
  • Notes that former coach Mike Tomlin had veto power over roster moves, confounding who gets credit or blame.

Locker Room Dynamics & Business Realities

• Business side creates distance between players and front office/management
  • Joe: “...when it comes to the business side, they will still chop you and not really...like send you an offer...That’s business that you really got to realize.” (62:19)
  • Deebo: “The salary cap guy, he only [liked] by guys the day they sign.” (64:31)
• Both hosts admit a roster shake-up is imminent:
  • Deebo: “I think they go shred up a lot of that defense, man. It was a lot of money over there and we did not get the results that we wanted.” (52:38)

Notable Quotes

• Joe: “The Steelers are doing what teams do if you’re not winning. You have younger players that are in the same position with contract with on rookie deals that are performing.” (49:27)
• Deebo: “Look here, man. I think we got a super here, man.” (65:01)

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5. Dick LeBeau’s Legendary Status & Defensive Coaching Today

Timestamps: 65:12–67:47

• Fan asks if any DC compares to LeBeau:
  • Deebo: “Hell no. Dang.”
• Colorful story on LeBeau’s defensive genius:
  • “There is no hard copy of Dick LeBeau’s whole defense in existence...it is literally in his head. There’s nothing in his hand. It’s here, bro.” (66:39)
  • “Damn near 90 years old, bro, and he can tell you what happened in training camp...verbatim, just spit it out there, dude.” (67:01)

Notable Quotes

• Deebo: “Can’t nobody do what LeBeau did. That fire zone defense is LeBeau’s.” (66:39)

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6. Fan Mailbag: Falcons Hire Stefanski

Timestamps: 67:53–69:37

• Fan asks why Falcons hired Stefanski given his track record with QBs:
  • Joe: “I’m confused by the hire. If you were to ask me, yeah.” (69:31)
  • Deebo says he’d have preferred Stefanski elsewhere: “I would [have] been probably a little happier if he had went to, like, Baltimore...” (69:37)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Indiana’s win: “He capped off the perfect season, bro. National title, first ever ranking for the Hoosiers.” (Deebo, 04:03)
• On NFL Coaching hires: “It’s another. You know, you look at Miami, and they don’t. Had eight head coaches straight, had no coaching experience. Yes, as a head coach.” (Deebo, 15:47)
• On Steelers GM Omar Khan: “Ever since Omar took over, what have his draft picks done?...Just call a spade a spade.” (Ebron, quoted by Deebo, 57:08)
• On Dick LeBeau: “There is no hard copy of Dick LeBeau’s whole defense in existence...it is literally in his head.” (Deebo, 66:39)
• On the changing landscape of college football: “Dude, it’s wild right now, bro, the things that you could do.” (Deebo, 10:18)

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Episode Timestamps Summary

• Indiana vs Miami, Mendoza & Coach Kirk: 03:00–14:04
• NFL Coaching Changes: Dolphins, Titans, Ownership: 14:04–37:38
• Buffalo Bills Firing, Harbaugh, Stefanski: 36:09–41:57
• Steelers Contracts & GM, Ebron’s Comments: 42:11–62:19
• Dick LeBeau & Defensive Coaching: 65:12–67:47
• Falcons’ Stefanski Hire – Listener Mailbag: 67:53–69:37

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Final Take

This is a dense, insider-rich episode for hardcore football fans and those curious about the intersection of coaching, front office politics, and locker room realities. Humor, honesty, and deep analysis make it a must-listen for anyone invested in NFL news and the unique chemistry between Deebo and Joe. The show ends with the duo promising future discussions on the championship games, encouraging listeners to tune in for more player-driven analysis.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Deebo Harrison]

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[Deebo Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[Deebo Harrison]

Welcome back to D Boy Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison and I'm here with my co host, Joe Hayden. Please make sure you like and subscribe and download wherever you get your podcast. Joe, how you, baby? Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm doing great, brother. Debo, how doing you? The national championship went exactly as I wanted it to go. The Hurricanes lost. They did not win. So I'm good. Indiana, it was a good game. I was happy to see that. And University of Miami came out to play, but wasn't enough. And for me, go Indiana, go. Coach Kirk.

[Deebo Harrison]

No, hey, hey, hey. For sure, I'm with you. I'm with you on that. The reason I'm with you on that is because Chicago over there, my boy L, he lost in Chicago, okay? But he. He from Indiana, he. He Indian, he a Hoosier. So, okay, he had something, he had something to root for, like, so I was actually looking at it a little bit, but not really, you know, I turned it on, I clicked it on. And when I clicked it on, dude from Miami struck off on him on the first play I saw. I said, ooh, I got. I gotta turn the channel. I said, I ain't good luck right now. I said, I ain't good luck right now. See, I had to come back to it later, baby. Had to come back to it later.

[Joe Hayden]

He opened up stride. He opened up.

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He took off on them boys, dude. That boy Mendoza over there, though, they say what? He capped off the perfect season, bro. National title, first ever ranking for the Hoosiers.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on.

[Deebo Harrison]

First, first. First Hoosier quarterback to win a Heisman international championship.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

And likely, likely first overall pick.

[Joe Hayden]

The thing I'll say about this is I didn't watch, Debo. I ain't gonna lie. I didn't never watch too much of Mendoza throughout the year.

[Deebo Harrison]

And.

[Joe Hayden]

And I didn't know. I didn't know if he was. They were fake or phony. But I started watching Dorn when they played Ohio State, you know what I'm saying? They were able to beat them. Then I watched when they whooped Alabama 38 to 3. And that's when I started really to become a believer. He won the Heisman. He's a great kid. That's kind of what I see too. He's one of those, like, he's a God fearing man. Some people will call him corny. I call him. That's exactly what GMs and coaches are looking for. If you're looking for a quarterback to lead your franchise, he's going to give all the right answers. He's a try hard, really gives a good effort. He's not small, he's like six four, got a big frame. He made some good plays out there. I mean the one play that he did, bro, when they went for it on fourth down, they act like they were going for a field goal. They went for it and they called a quarterback draw. And my man went running through everybody, fighting for his life, taking on tacklers and then doping end zone. Everything, everything. He showed me a little bit of everything. He showed me the love of the game. He showed me his dedication. You know, he might be a little corny. I like that. I like that. I think he had to do went out that joint, won the natty, looked sweet. And congratulations to my man. Congratulations to Mendoza and the coach.

[Deebo Harrison]

Bruh.

[Joe Hayden]

Coach Kirk.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, I done heard, I've been hearing about him, man, he's from Pittsburgh.

[Joe Hayden]

That's when I heard and everywhere that he goes, he was like, just like google me. So I went and googled him.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, that's where I had to google him.

[Joe Hayden]

You gotta google him. And he's doing wherever he goes. That's what a great coach do. He's a leader. I could tell he's a leader. He's able to. And this is the other thing. They don't have Indiana, they don't have like all those five star recruits. They don't have those four star. But this is what I realized, Deebo, they're old. Their team is 23 year average age. So this is what my man is doing. If you got a good team where there's two two star, three star recruits come into college, they get their, they start playing college football, they get to get, get the speed of the game. So by the time it's their third year, he's going to the portal getting dudes that are two star, three stars. But they played a couple of years, got some good tape by this time. I'm 21 grown man, played four years of college football. Now I'm about as good as those five stars. Now they're basically five stars in the because they've had their experience, you know what I'm saying? So I think he's doing a really good job of seeing talent that isn't just. I'm not going to go pay these young dudes millions of dollars. They come in and I don't know if they're already able to Play just losing money. It's pick your poison. I'm going to go pick a two year, three year starter that's played in college football. Maybe wasn't the best coming out of high school, but now he's developed, he knows how to play ball and I'm going to coach him up to be a, to be a great player. So I think he's doing a great job in that part. Being able to manage the money, being able to get older players, not just all the five stars showing it's a way that it can be done. Because he beat Ohio State with 40, some five, four and five stars. He beat Alabama, Oregon, you know what I'm saying? And then beat Miami with 40 some five, four and five stars. So it can be done. Shout out to him because he's a great coach. The dudes out there love them. And I, in my time, I was never, I wasn't taking Indiana serious until they started, you know what I'm saying? Until they started beating like Ohio State. Then they worked Alabama and then, you know, saying Oregon, I ain't going to.

[Deebo Harrison]

Lie, when I heard the Alabama thing, I wasn't tripping because Alabama ain't where Alabama used to be, you know what I'm saying? Thinking, yeah, it was a whooping, I get it, I get it. But when they beat on State, I was like, ooh, yeah, it's some. There something there.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

He's doing a great job, like you said, of actually bringing them in and knowing the type of player that he has and the potential in that player and what he can get out of them and getting them in there and developing them to that point and pushing them to it, you know what I'm saying? And yep. Yeah, that's unbelievable. That's great coaching right there.

[Joe Hayden]

It was great coaching. Cause at the same time, like I saw the quarterback, he was out there taking what the defense give him, you know what I'm saying? When they were playing off, he was throwing a lot of those hitches, getting the ball out to his playmaker's hands and they were just being able to methodically walk the ball down the field. Miami Hurricanes, their defense was still nice. Like they was, he was getting pressure, people were coming, he was getting hit. Did you see, oh, my second first drive hit my man right underneath the chin. And I was like, oh my God, they didn't call no flag. But hey, he, he, you know what he did? He did the rpo. And do you want to act like you got the ball, you're going to get fumbed. You need to go ahead and throw your hands up, Mendoza, you know what I'm saying? Don't act like you got it. But he did get Bing. My man Lip was bleeding. I was like, bruh, okay. They're out here fuming.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, yeah. That's wild, bro. Cause I think Indiana's roster only had like what, maybe eight or eight or so four or five star players, like you said. Miami, they was sitting over there with 45. Four or five stars fresh out of high school.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, but that's what I'm saying. That's that grown man strength you playing verse. Grown men that's been in there and they're four or five year starters. These dudes are average 22 years old. And Miami's probably. You got 18 years old, my man. Their best player, number 10. He's supposed to still be in high school, you know what I'm saying? He's out there hooping, though.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, yeah. You get like. Yeah, I see what you're saying. But you know, bird in the hand, bird in the bush. You gotta go get what you can get when you can get it. Honestly.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no, for sure.

[Deebo Harrison]

But the longevity of it, like to be like, yo, I'm about to be that dude. Dude, you know what I would do that they allow now what? I go two years juco, then come back and get my other four because they don't even count against it.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, man. Yo, you coming in?

[Deebo Harrison]

I'm coming in freshman. I'm coming in freshman. 20 year old grown man. I could get up out of there in three easy. Yeah, yeah. Dude, it's wild right now, bro, the things that you could do. And then on top of that, you still could get a red shirt on it. If.

[Joe Hayden]

But if you nice like you. If you nice though, you're gonna go because they're gonna pay you to dough if you're nice, if you're not. If you're a second, two year. If you a two star, three star. I can see them trying to go to juco route because nobody really paying you, right? Get you, you're coming out of there ready? No, for sure.

[Deebo Harrison]

Especially if you ain't had time to like, get in there, develop, play, whatever it may be, what's going on. Yeah, get you a year in that juco.

[Joe Hayden]

Go ahead. No, develop yourself.

[Deebo Harrison]

Get the snaps.

[Joe Hayden]

Get that grown man strength.

[Deebo Harrison]

No question. Yeah, but your boy back, what was he thinking on that last throttle?

[Joe Hayden]

It was a undertone ball. Undertone ball. It's thick. I mean, my manager.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, I was. I was thinking the same thing, but then as I'm looking at it, I'm like, safety kind of slowed down. I was trying to get over the top, but then again, I'm like, if he just launched it, if he just launched.

[Joe Hayden]

If you just go back pylon stroke, you got to go back pylon. So where it's going to be, out of bounds or outside shoulder? Cause the safety's in there, the DB's beat. You go back pylon, only chance, then that's where he's gonna have to slow down. He don't gotta run. You gotta make sure that safety got a good angle. But if you throw the inside and underthone, that's gonna be booked. That's gonna be booked by either the corner or the safety. So, yeah, he gotta. He gotta throw that. He gotta let that thing fly. But Indiana, they made plays when they had to, brother. The fourth and Mendoza, fourth and eight, back shoulder to get down there. Like Indiana was not. They didn't give up the game. I liked it because it was a good game both ways, back and forth, you know what I'm saying? Both teams battling, both teams making stops. But, yeah, Mandoza did what he had to do to go win that thing.

[Deebo Harrison]

Indiana dude ain't back like 23, 24 or something.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, he was on Georgia. He was for Georgia. He got two national championships, but he was the backup quarterback.

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. So he didn't. He didn't go start for the game. So now this is his first time.

[Odoo Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

And I believe he said he graduated like two years ago, didn't he?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. My man is out that joint, chilling straight. That's it's league. He's going to practice and going home.

[Deebo Harrison]

Going home, bro. He's going to, like. He got. He got the real. He got. He got the real, like. Like NFL experience already.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what I'm trying to tell.

[Deebo Harrison]

What's that? Two years, bro. Like, come on.

[Joe Hayden]

Two years.

[Deebo Harrison]

You gotta do better than that. You had a whole two years of, like a rookie. Rookie. Come on, man.

[Joe Hayden]

Wake up in the morning, your teammates got class. You're playing Call of Duty or studying some film, maybe getting some film. All day vibing because you don't have. Your job is football. Your job is to know what you're doing. You going up to the facility, like.

[Deebo Harrison]

And you still getting paid, right? And you still getting paid for show.

[Joe Hayden]

For show. They gave that man about a good fight. He got five mil. Debo, huh? Yeah, they got that man good Elms bet got good five. Like. Don't get me talking crazy, but I know it's at least 3 million, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

Get that money, man. I ain't even tripping, man. What I ain't even sure. I wish. I wish I could have had that because, man, as soon as they get a hold of this and start cutting this down and changing these rules, man's they. It's gonna be cast. That's gonna wish they was born just a little bit early, man. It's like sometimes you'd be looking at contracts, you'd be like, damn, I wish I was born just a little bit late.

[Joe Hayden]

No, for sure, everybody. Inflation, brother. Inflation.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yes, sir, man. Miami, man though. Dolphins.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

They hired D.C. jeff. What is it, House?

[Joe Hayden]

Jeff Halfley. I know that. We love this. We. I love Jeff Halfley. Oh yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

You played under him.

[Joe Hayden]

Go ahead, hydrate up. Yes, sir, I definitely played under him. 2014. He was my DB coach in Cleveland. Went to the Pro Bowl. Athlete, great coach, great coach. I mean he. This is my thing too now, Debo. I don't know how. When we're saying with now coaches, the responsibilities of bringing in other staff, you know what I'm saying? Hiring other position groups. I don't know about that part. The one thing I tell you I know about Coach Halfley is he knows some defense and he made sure that I knew my job, the team knew what was going on. And I like him as a coach. He knows scheme, he knows ball. And he wasn't telling me no, just coach talk. He was giving me real things. He was giving me real.

[Deebo Harrison]

So he actually developed you.

[Joe Hayden]

He actually developed my game 1000% for sure. He came out to the Pro bowl with me. Amazing coach. So I'm very, very happy for him. And I can't wait to see how he does with bringing coaches around him, you know what I'm saying? Seeing how. What being about how he accusates or gives out, you know what I'm saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

Acclimates.

[Joe Hayden]

Acclimates. Yes. Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, I don't. I ain't gonna lie. I. I ain't know much about him other than, you know, he was the D coordinator for Green Bay. 24, 25. And then the head coach of Boston College.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

20 to 23. I ain't gonna lie. I wouldn't. I wasn't too impressed with that though. It was, you know, you talking about. Was it 22 and 26 you said? I guess sometime in between there, he must have flipped back forth between college in and pro somewhere between there. But I Mean, defense did well, I guess, in Green Bay for them. I mean, a 24. I think there was like a fourth or something, but a 15th this year. I mean, I know they lost some people. I just don't know. Like, it's another. You know, you look. You look at Miami, and they don't. Had eight head coaches straight, had no coaching experience. Yes, as a head coach. And then they haven't won a playoff game in the last, what, 20, 25 years, something like that. You got. What is it you got? McDaniels, Flores, G. I say Soprano was in there somewhere. Matter of fact, now, think about it. They fired two coaches and Todd Bowles and what's his name over there in. In Detroit, Dan Campbell. They were interim coaches for those seasons that they fired those. Those. Those two coaches. And then in between that, I don't know who it was actually had Nick Saban, too, right?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

Okay. But, yeah, program different than the. You know, than the professional game. And the last time they won a playoff game was 2000 with Wonstead. And before that, what was it? Jimmy Johnson, before he ended up walking up like, you talking about 96.

[Joe Hayden]

Was it.

[Deebo Harrison]

Was you even born then?

[Joe Hayden]

Come on, Debo. 89, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, 89. Oh. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. So, you know, I don't know, man.

[Joe Hayden]

They.

[Deebo Harrison]

They. You saying they doing the same thing? I. I just don't.

[Odoo Advertiser]

I don't know.

[Deebo Harrison]

You. I feel like when I look at it, it's like. It's like the ownership or something, dude. Like, the ownership just. They. They done got stuck in a phase where they just want to try and hire the new young talent and. And. And run with it from there. And then when you look at it and you start, like, really just digging into it. So I like to dig into stuff. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

Like, the team has been ran by. What's his name, Ross, since, what, 0809, something like that.

[Joe Hayden]

The GM?

[Deebo Harrison]

No, no, the owner. Okay. Owner. GMS have been flying left and right. I think their longest tenure GM was. Was. Was. What's his name? Chris Greer or something like that. I think he went. He went. What was it, 16 to just this Halloween. He got fired, actually, on my son's birthday. He got fired.

[Joe Hayden]

God damn.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah. Yeah. So now you got to look at it. Got it, got it. Got to be. It got to be an ownership thing. And, you know, you have to start, you know, with the owner. Like, he got the team in 0809, who's a lawyer. He Started off, that's how he got his money. Lawyer, tax, attorney, all that bull. Did the real estate actually did a good thing with the affordable housing development. Like, he did that. But you look at it now, this dude got NFL, NBA, Miami grand prix, developed properties for in the U. S. London.

[Joe Hayden]

He got a lot of other stuff going on. He got a lot of things like.

[Deebo Harrison]

Like New York City, like all that stuff, bro. So he looking at this as a money investment, you know what I'm saying, Debo?

[Joe Hayden]

And that's when we may not understand.

[Deebo Harrison]

What it takes to get a coach that's, you know, capable of getting the job done, Debo. So like we said, it's fine, you know what I'm saying? To get the next best thing, like get somebody already proven.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm with you 1000%. So what. What we're trying to say is. Are you trying to say that there's owners that know what they're doing and there's owners that are just know it's about the money. And when it's an owner, we can't tell the owner what to do. So the owner's gonna hire who he wants to hire. He's gonna put his foot where he wants to put it. Because at the end of the day, the Miami Dolphins are still making money. They're gonna make money regardless. So the smarts of the owner to be able to hire the right people to put them in position to set them up, that's going to be. That could be a very long time until they figure that out. You know what I'm saying? And people are always like, oh, no, why is it all messed up like this? You don't have an owner that was able to get the right people in place to get the right GM and coach, and now they have to work together because you are an owner. You have the money. Like, that doesn't make you the smartest man in the room to make football decisions, to be able to build a and make sure everything's good, you're still gonna be able to make money because that's what football teams do. If you own the team, the rights from the, From Peacock, from Prime, from all that that's coming in regardless. So you're going to make money if you own the team because you were fortunate enough to be able to buy the team. But for your team to be successful and to hire a right head coach to get the right GM to start moving in the right direction, to get your team building in the right way, that's. That's. I mean, That's Robert Kraft. That's where Rooney comes in. That's when you have ownership, that all right, we got the right coach, we believe in him. We're gonna kind of get out of the way. The GM and the coach are on the right vibe. You might have an intelligent Robert Kraft. No, we're gonna keep Tom Brady. Instead of being able to step in like there's certain things that owners might be able to do because owners can make the decision whenever they want. They own the team. But you're smart. You have to be smart enough to know I'm not the smartest man in the room all the time. I got to be able to put people in position to make those decisions. So with you saying the Miami Dolphins like you keep trying to get the new young thing, that's the owner, where you could be like, why don't you get an established head coach that's going to come there, get culture, figure out a GM that he's kind of in cahoots with. Then they figure out where we're going with this.

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[Deebo Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

Quarterback what we need to do in the draft what we need to do here so getting the right people in position is a big ownership thing too, that people like? Well, no how. I mean, the owners can do what they want to do. So is it just about making the money? What they're going to make regardless if you own the team? Or are you going to pick the right people to put in place? You know what I'm saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh yeah, I understand that. All the way. When you go all the way back, staying with Miami, dude, when they what was it I said 96 was Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy Johnson. That's another time around. I think it was like 94, 95. They ended up letting letting Shula go. In that process, the guy that acquired the new team in that 94, 95 time frame, first thing he did was he hired Jimmy Johnson. And guess who he made his gm? Jimmy Johnson. Okay. And in that process, I think they had like three playoff appearances. Maybe one or two, two or three Wins. Something like that. And that spun off to something else, but it ended up being, I think it was Wine State. Yeah. One State came after that. Okay. Same thing. But from there it's been a, A plethora of, you know, new. New coaches, been eight of them that, you know, haven't had a head coaching position yet. And, you know, it's. It just doesn't. It just doesn't seem to be working out. And, you know, I understand. I think back in 0809, Mark Anthony or something, he was like a minority owner with the Williams sisters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And that right there, just recently, 24. I think he sold maybe 10 or 15% of the team. But you're a minority owner. Like, minority does not mean controlling owner. You are there simply as a money piece. Like, like the, with the Ravens. With the Ravens head. No, with the Ravens owner say, yo, I, I, hey, you have a lot to say, but you have no power.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

When it comes down to it, I'm gonna be the person that has the power at the end of the day.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

So.

[Joe Hayden]

And people, I think people realize it if you put, if you just actually change the hat and ask a person, if you run a business, you know what I'm saying? Your employee, how much say does he really have? You're going to listen to him. If you're a good owner and like, be like, okay, no, I'm going to take that into consideration. But at the end of the day, whatever you say is going to be what goes. You know what I'm saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

For sure. 100%. Because you get all the. Like I said, all these businessmen buying these companies, bro, like, hey, all they want is the roi.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on, Debo. Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

Investment, baby. If people know that. Yeah. Other than that, like, it ain't. It ain't nothing else happening and going on around here, I guess Seller, though, he just got him another chance. It looks like over there in Tennessee, he was it. They just finalizing the deal right now in Tennessee for Salah. Where do you.

[Joe Hayden]

You like that selling Tennessee? Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. I think he's a. I think he's a good defensive coordinator. I mean, I don't. I wouldn't. I'm more, I'm more. Their, Their offense hasn't really been doing nothing, so, I mean, if he's a good defensive coordinator, he can bring the defense in. I'm just more. With the Tennessee Titans, how are they going to get Cam Ward? Right? I want the offensive coordinator coming in, and I just need somebody that's going to have my number one pick in the right vibes. I just need, I don't know, I love him as a coach. I think he's a good defensive mind. But if I'm the Tennessee Tit, I have my number one pick. The coach that I'm bringing in, I kind of want him to be more offensive minded and be on the vibe of Cam Ward. Hopefully he brings in a good offensive coordinator that he's rocking with and they can really build with Cam and do that. Because I think Cam Ward is nice. I just don't think that he's been in a position with a good offensive coordinator to be successful.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, I'm, I guess I'm like 50, 50 and you know, I'm not kind of leaning like one way or the other. I'm hoping that he had success. But, you know, like you said, he, he is a, he's a good defensive coordinator. He's minded another thing. For me, he was a head coach. Even though it was, it didn't go as well. You know, you can still use that experience, hopefully and, you know, maybe learn from it and, and figure out what it is that you did wrong there and be able to do it right in the other game. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

So that right there is a, is, is, is a thing that, that I'm, I'm four on, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like you said, he did, he did a good job with a banged up defense in San Francisco, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

And you can't. The injury's gonna happen. You, you're right, linebacker.

[Deebo Harrison]

He still, he still did it.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on. He still did it for sure.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah. But you know, the thing that I'm kind of against, but like you said, the old coordinator. But here's something else too, though. Like you look at Tennessee, this actually kind of helps him because I believe Tennessee is what, possibly having like a hundred million dollars in cap space so he can go out right now and pick up the groceries that he need help that offense to help his young quarterback. And I'm with you. Like, we gotta see, you know, what happens when you get the job and who it is that you, you hire as your offensive coordinator, your offensive staff, you know, to help develop the offense, the young quarterback. Got a young dude over there. And you know, all along with that, you know, I'm skeptical. Just a little skeptical, brother. You know, you had a 20 and 36 record over there.

[Joe Hayden]

You know what? You know what I really want to start knowing though, Deebo? It would help A lot. If we knew when these coaches come over how much control they have. Do you know what I'm saying? So, like it would be able to see if he has control on picking this offensive coordinator. Cause then that would mean we know it's on the coach and not the GM. We know it's the GM's call. So if things don't quite pan out, there's literally, you know what I'm saying more, there's, there's, you know, who to point the finger to because it's able to, people are able to hide behind, oh, no, that's not my pick. I didn't bring them. I want you to succeed. So knowing the coach, like, coach, if he comes in there with, I think with Harbaugh, knowing his contract, what he's asking for, I think those things being lined out, I know Harbaugh's going in there. Harbaugh's running stuff. He's picking exactly what he wants. So he's the chef, he's the, he's doing everything he's going to. He's the, he's the shopper. He's getting all the ingredients. So when things don't pan out, you looking dead at Harbaugh like, okay, boom, now we know who was making the decisions, who was pulling the strings with. Now with Tennessee coach, I'm going in there. Are you being able to pick your offensive coordinator? Are you being the one like, nah, I'm going to be the one to do it. Knowing you're a defensive minded coach, are you not bringing in the best person just because like you said, there's not enough, you know, you just don't want nobody to take no shine. There should be no shine, no nothing. You should get the best person that's going to help out your team. You know what I'm saying? For you guys to win. So I want to kind of knowing that part of like, what is the head coach really doing? Does he have any say? So because I believe the head coach.

[Deebo Harrison]

Always has say in his staff. I believe the head Coach always has 100% say in his staff. Okay, there you have 100% say in your staff. So that right there is not in question. The only thing that would be in question is how much say do you have over the drafting of players. You and your GM are not even close in the comparison of what you believe you have in this athlete versus what your scouting department is saying, what you're saying and then what the GM is saying. So yeah, if I'm the head coach and I'm talking about, hey, this guy, you know, I want to get him in the first round, but I got everybody else over here talking about, man, listen, he, he bottom of the second, he early third at most. Now my GM saying, hey, he bottom of the second, early third, and most do. And I'll have the power to say I'm taking him in the first anyway.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's when it becomes, it, it becomes an issue. Okay. You're talking first, bottom of the first. You know, that can be, that can be negotiated. But when you talking totally different rounds, you know, you're talking first round, third round, first round, you know, end of the second round, like that. That, that's something else to, you know.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

Something else totally different.

[Joe Hayden]

So you say, who gets that, who, if, who gets that trigger call on. I like this. You like this. I think that's me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's the call. Okay.

[Deebo Harrison]

But very few, very few are going to stand up and say, that's me. Because, you know, what is it? Eight times out of 10, it don't work out. And the one time it do work out, you ain't gonna say nothing because you got to talk about the times it didn't work out.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I, I, I'm 50. 50. I'm hoping he's able to go over there and do something better then, especially on the offensive side, than what he did in New York. I think they ended up starting off at his first year. I think there was like a 24, and, you know, I think the highest was his 24, and that was his first year. And his lowest, they was 31st, so they didn't even rank out of the, you know, 24 in those four seasons that he was there as head coach when he was in New York. So I'm hoping to see that his offensive staff is, has credentials that can, you know, at least on paper, look like they can go out there and get it done.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, for sure. I would hope so. Cause now he getting another. You getting another shot at a head coaching job you had. Defense was solid, offense was sketch. So that's why they got you up out of there. So hopefully you getting another one now. Come in there guns a blazing, ready for the offense. You know, you're bringing defense. So coming in with a good old offensive mind, somebody that really can put points on the board, scheme some stuff up like, like some Kyle Shanahan, a young Kyle.

[Deebo Harrison]

Well, you got to look at it Whenever was just there, right? Yeah, that was, what was it? 24. He was there. 24. They defense was a two this year. They defense was like 21st, 22nd. It couldn't have been too many players that left out of that. That, that major defense dropped that bad. So it got to be, you know, something as far as scheme. And then they did hire offensive minded coach. They hired the oc. That was the OC for Kansas City. So, you know, that, that, you know, I mean, sorry, not Kansas City, Cincinnati. So that could be. That could be something that, you know, might have added to it. And with that, I think. Well, who else is it? We got Harbaugh got the Giants. There's still six openings, dog. Yeah, still six of them, dude.

[Joe Hayden]

They got to get to it.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yo, question. Hey, with the Bills getting rid of, you know. Oh, God. Do you, do you think, do you think. Do you think Harbaugh or are your boy Stefanski over there kicking theyself right now?

[Joe Hayden]

I think Harbaugh is probably chilling. I think Harbaugh's good. I think Harbaugh's good. I think Stefanski is probably kicking itself. Yeah, I'm a. Yeah, I think Harbaugh's chilling. Harbor is over there in New York Giants. He got a lot of money. He got dart, he got scatterable. He got my man neighbors, they didn't have neighbors at all. They keep forgetting he's a dog. All these dudes on young rookie contracts and he got a lot of money and he can really come over there and do whatever he wants. So Harbaugh, I think Harbaugh would chill, but I would say definitely the Atlanta coach Stefanski, I think he might have got to. Been able to maybe if he would have been able to get the Bills job. Definitely. Because Stefanski in Atlanta is throwing me all the way off. I think he would have loved. He would have been more with Josh Allen and just got along with him, you know, better than. I think he gets along with Atlanta and the vibes out there to be Harbaugh.

[Deebo Harrison]

I'm with you, dude. Harbaugh ain't tripping. My man just signed him a five year old. What's that? He was 20 a year, 100 million.

[Joe Hayden]

Come on, man. Come on, bro.

[Deebo Harrison]

Cause listen, bro, the first thing that goes, that anybody that goes to interview for this head coaching job needs to realize is, yeah. If you do not win the Super Bowl. Okay, listen, listen, I'm trying to tell you, listen, bro, I'm trying to tell you, listen. They also are very likely to have the Least amount of patience, okay? Yes. Least amount of patience, brother. They're cool. When you get in there, you be the. Hey, man, what's the expected time frame for the Super Bowl? Ten years, I believe. Whoever get that job, they gonna be lucky, bro. Lucky? If they get four years or more on that kind, it's probably gonna be like three with a tail, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes. Like, that's what I'm saying.

[Deebo Harrison]

Fired Sean McDermott, brother, after he had. How many seasons was that, bro? Yeah, nine seasons. My dude had nine seasons since 2017, okay? They said he had a 66 win rate. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

And he was eight and eight in the playoffs.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

So I had to go look. So I'm like, maybe it's a what have you done for me lately thing. Like, you. You know, you ain't did nothing for me for the last four or five years. You ain't won a playoff game, you ain't went to it, whatever it may be. Yeah. Nope, that's not the case. 2020. They was 2 in 1 in the playoffs, okay? And that was the one they lost to. Was it Casey? Was that Casey? Was that. Was that. What's the name of them?

[Joe Hayden]

Were they Mahomes in them?

[Deebo Harrison]

It don't matter. They made it to the championship game and lost. Okay? Now, 21 through 23, they won a playoff game in each year, okay? 24 again, AFC championship, but lost. And this year, it went one and one and could have won easily if the call hadn't went, however it went, you know what I'm saying? And then you let. You fire him immediately. It wasn't even a whole weekend. I mean, you ain't get my man till Monday or Tuesday. You ain't. Bye. That was all right. Like, as soon as you, like, they gave him what, two, three days? Not even two, three days, bro. They gave my boy about 12, 16 night. They probably. They probably had this stuff packed when he came back to the. As soon as he landed at the airport. That he had. They had this sitting there, like, here. Don't even go to the office. We got everything right here, man.

[Joe Hayden]

We got all. We got all your stuff.

[Deebo Harrison]

All you. Now, listen, your boy Stefanski, he probably tripping. He probably kicking himself.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, he would. He would have loved that job.

[Deebo Harrison]

What you stepping in? Already made your groceries is already sitting there, okay? All you gotta do is not mess.

[Joe Hayden]

It up, and he gonna.

[Deebo Harrison]

Don't get rid of nobody, you see? Got everything there. Keep everybody there. If you want to bring a couple of your guys, everybody got their guy, but do not get rid of the oc, the dc Don't. You could. No, you could do something else. Already made. He could have. He could have been like, yeah, went there this next year and won the super bowl. And been looking at y' all like, yeah, I told y' all I was one of the best coaches ever, brother. I just came here. Year one, won a Super Bowl. My man still ain't got one in Cleveland.

[Joe Hayden]

Kevin Stefanski would have been so geeked. Did you see how much love he was supporting with Dylan Gabriel? All making sure he was fine. All making sure he was good. He would have been Josh Allen's best friend. Making sure everything was set up perfectly for that man. And I think they would have. Definitely. He would have. He would have had. He would have succeeded. He would have succeeded for sure. Because I think if he. He's a good coach, and he would have had everything in his power to support that man, Josh Allen, and made sure that he was going to will his way to victory, bring him all the players. He could get everything. So, yeah, I think Kevin Savansky's a little pissed.

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, I'm 100, 150 pissed, bruh. Like, what is he talking about? Like, again, though? Like, maybe he was like, yo, I gotta take this. I don't know who else job, you.

[Joe Hayden]

Know, he gotta go get that. He gotta go take that job, though. He gotta go take that for sure. But if the bill job was open, he would have went there first for sure.

[Deebo Harrison]

Brother. Still is, man.

[Joe Hayden]

What's up? What we got?

[Deebo Harrison]

We ain't got nothing. No, we got Pat. Pat. He said he was disappointed in the lack of opportunities he had this season. He said, I would say I was disappointed with the lack of opportunities I was given, but at the end of the day, I'm a team player and I was proud of myself for not making it about myself.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[Deebo Harrison]

What do you think about that, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I think he said what he said, man. And he waited till the end of the season. Cause they probably asked him, how would you feel about your usage? And he probably was not happy with his usage because I think they used John New Smith, and then we had Washington, and then we had Hayward in there also. And, I mean, I respect it. We signed him to a contract where he's making 12 men a year, so we should be using them. And every time he was in the game, he was balling. He was never not balling. So that's why I can kind of see what he's saying. We brought in Smith. Washington is balling also. He's nice. And we still got him, him under a rookie contract. I think he could have been used better. I think that everything that he's saying is correct. I think he was a team player. I think he knows John Luke Smith is also a good player. Darnell Washington is also a really good player. So he sees that they did have a rookie and we did bring in a free agent that we paying some pretty good money too. So we need to give them opportunities. But him knowing his game, knowing his skill set, knowing what he thinks he brings to the table, also I can see why he feels so. That's, I think why he said it.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. I just don't, I don't know what the big deal is that he said it. Everybody can see it. Just because I said it out loud, it's a big deal.

[Joe Hayden]

Now y' all ask the question, right?

[Deebo Harrison]

Listen, they signed a man in what, September of 24 to a four year. 48.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes. 12 a year.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yes. And it was a 11, six guaranteed on that.

[Joe Hayden]

Now you get that.

[Deebo Harrison]

Here's where I see where he's like, yo, I'm being underused. What's going on? So going into 26, I believe, which is next year, from here on, he has been paid his whole guarantee.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

The Steelers, once they, they do, it's done.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah. When 26 hits that march, what is it? March 12th, 13th, 14th time frame. If they let him go before then. And I'm pretty sure it's some significant savings on the cap.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

He was only targeted 54 times this year. Last year it was 78. It was high as 98 in 2020. And now after this guarantee, look like it's paid up. And like you said, you got some younger players in there. You're trying to see what you could do to work them in there and get from it. But you know what you could get from him? I don't understand why he's not out there giving you what he has been giving you the last three, four years.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm with you. Like if you got him under contract and you're paying him, I would expect you to use him. Like you still have the younger dudes under contract. But when you have a player that you already paid his guarantee up, he has another year or two left.

[Deebo Harrison]

Well, you got to realize like with the, you know, with the contract set up, you get back in heavy. So now a lot of your pay is in your base. So now if a lot of my pay is in my base and my guarantee is already spread out across these years and I let this guy go at a certain date or before a certain date.

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[Deebo Harrison]

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[Deebo Harrison]

And I don't have to pay him. So now we had salary cap issues right now, bro. We had salary cap issues right now. So now I'm got to where I could save possibly. I want to say it's close to 5 million.

[Joe Hayden]

No, for sure they can save that in cap space. Yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

Now you go and you look at other people's contracts like that and you know, hell, they already let Queen go. All.

[Joe Hayden]

The Steelers are doing what they, what what teams do if you, if you're not winning. You have younger players that are in the same position with contract with on rookie deals that are, that are performing and you're. And because it's still a dual job of they normally pay, they're the guaranteed is up in the first year. So they're able to do that in that signing bonus. So where you get paid off. So now they're able to chop you after that. You know what I'm saying? So like Alex Highsmith, his guaranteed is up the only one, TJ Watt, he still got two more years of that guarantee. Cause that's 108. So his is the one with the big one. But everybody else that has contracts, they normally knock out that first guarantee and that signing bonus. So then they have the leverage to chop you whenever they want. There's more normal deals where it's like 10 like they're getting an average salary, a good salary, but they think you're not being the highest paid player, but you're not being the lowest paid player. So they can cut you whenever they want because they already gave you that guaranteed and you're signing motives at the beginning. So I'm with you a thousand percent financial wise it would make sense, you know what I'm saying? When you have Darnell Washington playing for a million dollars a year, when you look he's going to give you the same thing. Cam Hayward, young Hayward. And then you still have John New, where you had the option to release John New because you gave him the guarantee for the year for the money last season. So he's seven to the cap. So you got seven with him and you got 12 with him.

[Deebo Harrison]

You gave him seven.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, brother. Yeah, brother.

[Deebo Harrison]

Did not know that, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

So that's where it's like that could be. That's two players that are making that money where you have two young dudes where it's gonna be fire. Move at 12. We got seven.

[Deebo Harrison]

It was seven.

[Joe Hayden]

It's seven, brother.

[Deebo Harrison]

This year was seven.

[Joe Hayden]

Don't. I think I could show you last, last year might have been nine. And this year probably seven, brother.

[Deebo Harrison]

Ain't no way, bro. That's, that's over 20 on two titles. No way.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, I'm Debo. I'm not. I can go back to you and show you. I, I, I love contracts. I love looking at the numbers. That's just it, it makes me, that's what I always do. I love it. You know what I'm saying? So I know about the making sure to guarantee with the Steelers of like, yes, John, ooh, Smith. They don't. But they don't have to pay him. He is guaranteed is up so they can pay him probably I think it's 7 or 9 million this. 7 million this season or before March. They can release him and not have to pay him nothing. Nothing. Yeah, brother.

[Deebo Harrison]

We ain't even got a coach yet to, to, to make a decision on that.

[Joe Hayden]

But that's what I'm saying.

[Deebo Harrison]

But that's why a lot of furniture moving, man, whenever you.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what they're saying. When you have those vets though, like that are still making a little bit of money. When you have the younger dudes like Nick Herbic, we got Highsmith still. I think the Steelers are looking to, to make sure what's going on. Like, if there's any type of. Cause TJ's not going nowhere. Then we have Alex Highsmith. He's making 15 million this year, probably 14 million next year. And then we have Herbic, that's on the rookie deal. Then we have Sawyer, that's on his rookie deal. But we got to figure out what we're doing with Herbic because he's Herbic. Yeah, he coming up next going into the last year of his contract. So are we going to be paying T.J. watt, Alex Highsmith and you gotta pay Herbic. So they come looking at situations like how was that looking? Like, like so I, you Know, I.

[Deebo Harrison]

Ain'T gonna lie to you, bro. I think they go. I think they go. They go shred up a lot of that defense, man. It was a lot of money over there and we did not get the results that we wanted. And we need to get something on offense. So whenever the coach come in, you know, I think he go, he. He go shred it up and start trying to pick him some groceries on that offensive side that could try and at least, you know, help him right now to a certain point. But whoever the coach is, whoever the car. I don't care who the coach is, man. Y' all get ready. Ready. We about to be in the basement. About to be in the basement for a year or two, if not three, I would say what type of coach will get. How fast you could turn it around so old, you know, it depends on.

[Joe Hayden]

It depends on the picks. It depends on the picks and it depends on if they're able to perform at a high level. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, yeah. Like, oh, yeah, you gotta.

[Joe Hayden]

If you get the quarterback. I mean, this is dependent right now. Like, if you go.

[Deebo Harrison]

They gotta be taught. We've seen a lot of things going on on the def side that.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Deebo Harrison]

Repeatedly done the same way over and over by multiple people. That was just not talked.

[Joe Hayden]

That got to get scrapped. It got to start from the bottom up, come in with a legitimate scheme. Everything speaking the same language. Everybody, our whole scheme is going to be different. It's not going to be the same old, like little fire zones that they were running. No, no, no, no. When the coach comes in, they're going to have their system and every coach is going to be speaking the same language as the other coach. Linebackers talking to corners, talking to safeties, talking to D line, you know what I'm saying? Like just having that basis. Like you said, if you don't start from everybody speaking this, this is the way it goes. This is how we run it. There are certain basis to our defense. This is what it looks like. You know what I'm saying? You have to have that where everybody, no matter who you talk to. No, this is what we doing. This is how and this is why. And there's no gray. There's no. Nah.

[Deebo Harrison]

Somebody.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no, no, no. Everybody. Everybody's fully 100% bought in to the system, to the scheme. Everybody believes it and that's just what they do. Like Seattle, like Pittsburgh when you was there with Dick. That's what they need. Like legit. Like. No, everybody Knows this is what we standing on. This is what it is.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, that's. And it's simple, dude. It's simple. And like you said, the coaching, you got to get. You got. You got to get guys that. When. When they come in there just off of their credentials, what they know of that person, what they've seen of that person, their name, like, it's automatic. Like, oh, yeah, I'm buying in. I'm buying in right now. I'm buying Joy, my DB coach, I'm buying in right now.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm learning what he's teaching me right now. Like, I know what I know, but right now, this is how we're doing it here. You know what I'm saying? Like, all that. No, no, no. This is what we used to. I would never want to hear. No, this. How. And what are we talking about? I don't care about how you used to do it. I don't care about none of that. What you about to do is how we do it here, and it's gonna get the job done. You know what I'm saying? Like, on the film, do. Are you. Is your outside arm free or is it not right? Saying, like, you can't.

[Deebo Harrison]

We can't. We can't shoulder bump on blocks. You can't come down here and do this, dude. This. You can't do that in the NFL. They are just going to grab you and hold on to you, and there will be no call because it is 100 allowed. You got to come down there, bang them, punch them off, and shed and rip. You can't.

[Joe Hayden]

You.

[Deebo Harrison]

You can't do it any other way, especially if that's what you have to do at your position. We got to guys that can play the position that is needed. Like. Like I was saying about 95. Like, dude, he. I. I'm wrong, dude. He's actually a good player. They just got him out of position. He ain't no nose. That boy ain't no nose. He could play a rush in, though.

[Joe Hayden]

You know, get busy on the record.

[Deebo Harrison]

Go check him out. Go check Ben now. I ain't gonna lie. Go check out his old past, tape all that, bro. Go check him.

[Joe Hayden]

I'll go watch, bro.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, I was. I was. I was surprised. Like I said, if it wasn't for him saying it to me, I would have never even took a. Took a shot at looking at it. I'd have been like, oh, yeah. To get him up out of here, he'd have been gone. You know what I'm saying? Yep. But Ham Though. Yeah. Hey, Ham. Yeah? Like I said, it's him. If Hamp your D line coach, which you listen and, bro, all ears. All ears, bro. Speaking of tight ends, bro, I guess Eric Ebron, he said es. He said Omar Khan. He said questions if the players respect him.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, man.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah. He said, ever since Omar took over. What. What. What have. What have Omar draft picks done? We was there with Omar. I sound stupid reading this. He's saying they was there with Omar and basically ain't nobody respecting. And he said, just call a spade a spade. Call it what it is. What you think of this, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

What year. What year did Omar start doing. Doing the draft? Was it like 2023? Because I know he.

[Deebo Harrison]

I think it was 20. No, sorry. It was 22.

[Joe Hayden]

22.

[Deebo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Cause I'm looking his 23 draft class. It was Roderick Jones, Joey Porter Jr. Bennett, Washington, and Herbic. I mean, that right there is a nice draft class, in my opinion. That one right there is nice. The next one, Troy, Zach P. Dub, Roman Wilson. Not bad. And then last year, we had Derek Harmon and Jack Sawyer. Then we had Will Howard. So, I mean, 2023 draft class. I think that draft class was kind of good. What do you feel about Omar?

[Deebo Harrison]

Oh, I like Omar. I. I have a good relationship with Omar. Omar's been there since, like, 2001. Dude, you know, he's. He's went from the bottom to the top. Where he's at now, again, I say the same thing. I've been saying how much control Omar has over that draft process. I know at the end of the day, Mike is 100% in control of who comes in there. He can veto. He can veto top to bottom. I know that that's factual.

[Joe Hayden]

So, you know, say he was being able to be. He could veto it the whole time.

[Deebo Harrison]

He could veto the whole thing, bro. Like, from. At least from. I believe, from, like, about that 13 to 15 time frame. Dude, he could. He could. He could veto. Okay, Man. He was given that power. Like, I mean, he can hear even being say, like, Mike has a lot of power in that building. He had a lot of power in that building, and that was.

[Podcast Announcer]

That.

[Deebo Harrison]

You know, that was the truth. So how much of this I can accredit to Omar? Even though, like, you said, hey, it was a good draft class here and there, I don't. I can't. I can't say that. What I can't say is I know Omar got time under Bill Cower. Omar got time under Mike Tomlin. Omar got time under the ogm. Kevin Coburn.

[Joe Hayden]

Kevin Cobra. Yep.

[Deebo Harrison]

You know, all the way up until, you know, Kevin ended up leaving in 2022. You know, I know he spent a tremendous. I talked to him in person. I know he spent a tremendous amount of time learning and talking to Kevin. You know what I'm saying? I've had multiple conversations, interactions with, with Omar, talking about football and his goal of wanting to become a GM in the NFL and you know, the years and the time that he took, the steps that he took, you know, learning, trying to accomplish that goal. You know, just spending time and being in draft meetings, going through that whole process. Since 2001, bro. You know, and I think in 21 it was actually reported that he had a job offer or it was like very close to actually being done with Houston before they hired. What was the dude named? Nick Corsi Corso. What was his name that from Houston before. Before d'. Amico.

[Joe Hayden]

Nick Casario.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, Casario from. From Houston. Like, dude. But I also know he wanted to be the next GM for the Pittsburgh Steelers when the time came that Kevin Colbert would step down. And he got that chance in 22. Probably. I don't know, I'm just speculating in 21, when he had the opportunity, maybe it was told that, you know what, he was going to be stepping down, you would have the opportunity. Here you go. And you look. Just July of last year, they just signed him to a three year contract extension, making him their through the end of the 2028 season. So the Steelers obviously have confidence in him and his abilities and what he can do. So I don't know, you know, I don't know what old dude is talking about right here with, you know, guys not, not having, you know, respect for him and all that other stuff. You know, he went, he's been through the whole process. So I mean, it may have been a situation where, you know, he was in control of making the money work. So guys, originally when I first got there, there's like, oh, that's the money guy, you know, and as I got to know him, it's not just the money guy. He's the guy that makes sure, like the coach want to do this or do that. How do you make that work? Yeah, do this, do this. Because he got to keep controlling the cap, make sure we're under the cap, that we don't go over the cap, how much cap, all that other stuff. So that may be a situation where he might have died not, you know, feeling a certain way about a, you.

[Joe Hayden]

Know, situation, how he Left or, or whatever, 1000%. I know Ebron personally and I know we basically left at the same time. And you know how it is when you start seeing these people and they act like you have regular conversations and you want to ask them questions and they, they're, they keep it. They, they, they're nice to you. But at the end of the day, when it comes to the business side, they will still chop you and not really, like, send you an offer like you feel like anything, like, offer me something. And maybe it's just not even. They just won't offer you like, it's a business's business to the point where sometimes it's that, that thing gets a little bit like, dang, I just hollered at bruh. I've been hooping you, thinking you gonna get off or something. I'm just saying, me personally, because I know Ebron and I know how that joint could rock, rock, and then it just won't be nothing. So that's business that you really got to realize. But then that's a part of where you could really be like, I talk to them, we sit down and eat breakfast before we go into the things. It can make you feel like somebody like, doesn't, doesn't owe you, but, like, tell me, you know, what I'm saying, what it is like, or just blatantly be like, no, instead.

[Deebo Harrison]

Well, you gotta understand a lot of, A lot of, A lot of people in those positions don't, don't tell it, you know, how it blatantly is. And they try and they try and sugarcoat around it or just flat out, if you don't talk to, you know, Coach B and I'm Coach A, and I say, damn, Joe, we really want to keep you, but, you know, we can't do it, man. The cap is this or we can't do it because, you know, Coach B don't really. He ain't really feeling you. And he was the, you know, he was the deciding, you know, vote. That ain't necessarily true. And when you start, you know, having real relationships with all these people and it's more than just football now, you end up finding out things that you didn't know, you know what I'm saying? So I think that that could be a situation of, of one of those things. So I don't, I don't know. But when it comes down to it, man, the salary cap guy, he only liked by guys the day they signed.

[Joe Hayden]

After that, and I tell you, I like, I came and I came from Cleveland Cleveland, me and Omar, we had a great relationship. And when I had my re up, we had another great relationship.

[Deebo Harrison]

No question. No question. And they don't realize that he without. Without you going out there and playing to the standard that they wanted, then you got that re up. He's not that. He's just in control of trying to make it work so that they can get you and keep what they need in stack. That's it.

[Joe Hayden]

They want to make it fit, make it work, right?

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah, you got. You gotta make it fit, make it work. That's all it come down to, man. Look here, man. I think we got a super here, man.

[Joe Hayden]

What we got, Debo?

[Deebo Harrison]

It ain't much though. We say it's the. The underscore. Big underscore. What's that? Reek donated $5. Appreciate you. Whatever. Ebo and Joe, are there any DCs in the league now that can come close to Dick LeBeau style? Hell, no. Dang.

[Joe Hayden]

Straight like that, 100.

[Deebo Harrison]

No. Can't nobody listen. Y' all don't understand, man. Can't nobody do what lebow did. That fire zone defense is Le bows. Do you understand? Like, that is his. It is literally in his head. There is no hard copy of Dick LeBeau's whole defense in existence sitting on a paper that he has put down on and said, here is the fire zone that I know about. I talked directly to him. I said, Coach LeBeau, because I wanted to get some knowledge of it. I'm thinking, you know what, I might just go ahead and get into some of this high school stuff. Let me see what I could do. I was thinking about it. It was foolish push, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, coach, do you have like, your defense, like, on? Like, can you send me your defense? Coach said, he said, I, you know, I can't. I can't send it to you. He said, I could tell you all about it.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, I ain't giving the king. Giving up.

[Deebo Harrison]

I said, what you mean, coach? He said, I ain't. I don't. I ain't got it wrote down. He said, he said, it's in my head because I could tell you everything about it. I know it from. From right to left. I said, so if I want to come throw the defense off his head, Nothing in his hand. It's here, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

He's a. He's a science.

[Deebo Harrison]

This man got this. Listen, Coastal bowl, damn near 90 year old, bro. And he can tell you what happened in training camp on whatever day it was, and verbatim Just spit it out there, dude. Dude.

[Joe Hayden]

Cause he's a mad scientist.

[Deebo Harrison]

62 interceptions, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

62. That man.

[Deebo Harrison]

62.

[Joe Hayden]

That's crazy. That's crazy.

[Deebo Harrison]

And he. And he ain't get into the hall till they saw that he was the coldest defensive coordinator around. Stop.

[Joe Hayden]

That's crazy. 60 picks.

[Deebo Harrison]

Stop playing boys.

[Joe Hayden]

Is trying to get to 30.

[Deebo Harrison]

Out of here, man. We got this last super chat, man.

[Joe Hayden]

What we got, man?

[Deebo Harrison]

Let's see what it says. It says creek knock. 6, 2, 8, 0. We're looking at this on this phone. 6, 2, 8, 8. I'm tripping. Let me pull it up. 6288. It says I'm a Falcon fan. Can you two help me understand why in the world we were hired? Stefanski. This. We know. Knowing. Knowing. We knowing. We basically have a quarterback issue and hire a coach with the worst track record.

[Joe Hayden]

Those same.

[Deebo Harrison]

Those same problems. Hey, explain it.

[Joe Hayden]

They are saying what I was saying, and I was hoping and thinking that Matt Ryan, since he was with his soul, wouldn't have been able to read the room. Oh, my. This elephant in the room. Dion played for the Falcons. It's just. It just doesn't really fit. I think they have a nice. They have another. I don't know. I don't know why they did it. I hope that he comes in there and really tries to. He knows if he comes in, he must have told them during the hiring process. Oh, I believe in Pettix. I think. I think I could do damage with him. He would be like. He must have gave a good sale. Because other than that, I don't see it. I saw the way he supported Dylan Gabriel in a great way, had his back, you know what I'm saying? Wanted him to do well, but I hope that he gives him some good vibes. He did a good job with Baker when they went to the playoffs. But.

[Deebo Harrison]

But.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm confused by the hire. If you were to ask me, yeah.

[Deebo Harrison]

I ain't got no answer. I'm gonna go with Joe. I'm just. I would been probably a little happier if he had went to, like, Baltimore, you know, Other than that, I really ain't got no answer for you. You know what I'm saying? Look here, man. We a little old, yo. We want to thank you guys for joining us on this episode of Debo and Joe, please make sure you like and subscribe and download the show.

[Joe Hayden]

Joe, please, please make sure you like and subscribe and we will see you on Friday.

[Deebo Harrison]

Hey, we go be back talking about them championship games. Y' all come on back here now, you hear?

[Joe Hayden]

On Fridays, come all at us.

[Deebo Harrison]

Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Joe Hayden]

No.

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