Deebo & Joe - Mike Tomlin Steps Down as Steelers Coach + Giants Hire John Harbaugh

Summary

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Club Shay Shay – Deebo & Joe: "Mike Tomlin Steps Down as Steelers Coach + Giants Hire John Harbaugh"

Date: January 16, 2026
Host: James "Deebo" Harrison
Co-host: Joe Haden

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Episode Overview

This episode of Club Shay Shay dives deep into the departure of Mike Tomlin as head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers and the concurrent news that the New York Giants hired John Harbaugh. NFL veterans James "Deebo" Harrison and Joe Haden have an unfiltered, passionate debate on Tomlin's legacy, the definition of coaching greatness, and the future of the Steelers’ organization. The episode explores personal experiences with Tomlin, breaks down what truly sets “Hall of Fame” coaches apart, and examines the challenges ahead for teams in transition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reactions to Mike Tomlin Stepping Down (02:24 – 03:00)

• Joe Haden shares his emotional reaction to Tomlin's resignation, stating it “hit me for a little bit” despite being glad Tomlin chose to leave on his own terms.
• Haden: “I'm happy how it happened and how he's able to walk away... I rock with Coach T big time.” (02:28)

2. Is Mike Tomlin an “All-Time Great” Coach? (03:00 – 07:21)

• Haden draws parallels between sports “greatest” debates and Hall of Fame standards, arguing that Tomlin is “a great coach,” but not the greatest of all time.
• Compares coaching tiers: “There's a room for the LeBron James and the Michael Jordans... but still, Kyrie Irving is a Hall of Fame player.”
• Haden: “My best coach ever by far was Mike Tomlin... I never went into a game ill prepared.” (04:33)
• He praises Tomlin’s 19 seasons, 13 playoff appearances, 7 trips to the AFC Championship, and 2 Super Bowls.
• Both agree Tomlin was timely and dignified in choosing to move on.

3. Deebo’s Critique: Great Motivator vs. Great Coach (07:21 – 15:28)

• Harrison is more critical, suggesting Tomlin is “an all-time great motivator” but not an “all-time great coach.”
• Harrison: “Players like, they're taking that motivation and the leader of men and they're calling it greatness... To me, a great coach dude has an added dynamic... mentor.” (08:00)
• The lack of a “coaching tree” (assistants who become successful head coaches) is a major red flag for Harrison.
  • “It's been almost 20 years and Mike T. don't have a coaching tree. Why is that, Joe?” (09:55)
• Joe struggles to answer, leading Deebo to elaborate on the unspoken NFL rules and insider knowledge that may have limited Tomlin’s tree.
• Harrison: “GMs and these owners know what's happening behind closed doors, so it would make zero sense for them to... promote him when they already know he doesn't have the skills.” (13:57)

4. Assessing Tomlin’s Roster Control and Draft Record (15:28 – 22:55)

• Both discuss changes in front office power—Tomlin eventually gained final say on roster decisions around 2013-2015.
• Harrison criticizes Tomlin’s draft record post-2015: “We have only given two players in those first two rounds long-term extensions... That is 100% him. Why is that?” (17:12)
• Haden admits the extension rate is not “a good percentage.”
• Mixed views on Tomlin’s early years—Deebo notes Tomlin’s best successes used Bill Cowher’s roster.

5. Playoff Performance and “Greatness” Metrics (22:55 – 35:22)

• Harrison meticulously scrutinizes Tomlin’s playoff record, insistently referencing coaches like Belichick and Andy Reid.
• Repeats: Tomlin is “a good, not great coach,” arguing motivation alone isn’t enough.
• Discussion about the dangers of evaluating coaches based solely on emotional bonds vs. objective field performance.
  • “Motivation... is emotional feelings based. It’s inconsistent play coaching for the last decade because our coach is a great motivator.” (25:00)
• Haden defends Tomlin’s 19-year winning season streak as historically significant: “That doesn't happen. That's just not easy.” (34:42)
• Debate on Hall of Fame Criteria:
  • Deebo: “I can't give him a Hall of Fame coach for [no coaching tree].” (26:26)
  • Haden: “I think he is a Hall of Fame coach. He's a great coach.” (07:21, 34:36)

6. Personal Relationships, Perceptions, and Breakdowns (35:22 – 45:21)

• Both hosts share how personal feelings and NFL politics color their assessments.
  • Harrison brings up his lack of emotional attachment to Tomlin, referencing moments of dishonesty (including a 2018 text exchange):
    “Now you're telling me someone who doesn't listen to the outside noise is texting me that on a Tuesday before he’s playing a Thursday game?” (40:19)
• Haden acknowledges he can only judge based on his personal experience and preparation under Tomlin.

7. The Coaching Tree – Why It Matters (45:21 – 54:11)

• Deebo explains the value of coaches elevating their assistants into head coaching roles, using Dick LeBeau and Keith Butler as mentors who directly impacted his career.
• Both bemoan lackluster staff development and the questionable merit of promoting from within.
  • “A great coach gets you beyond what your actual level of play is.” (45:32)

8. Roster Rebuild and Reimagining Pittsburgh’s Future (60:45 – 66:23)

• The hosts agree the Steelers face a likely “rebuild”—Harrison predicts, “We gonna be in the basement if we’re trying to rebuild this and I think we need to rebuild this.” (60:54)
• Deebo: “I’m dumping [contracts] for sure. I have to. I gotta start younger…” (65:00)
• Emphasis on hiring proven, not just familiar, coaches.

9. Desirable Coaching Jobs & Steelers’ Next Chapter (68:25 – 71:41)

• Discussion of which NFL job is most attractive; both argue Pittsburgh is still a prime destination due to its history, but success will hinge on the new staff’s vision and power.
• Deebo: “I do not want teachers. I want parents, professors of the game.” (70:56)

10. Listener Q&A: Hiring, Timelines, and “Great Coach” Standards (78:24 – 85:43)

• Viewers suggest James Harrison for head coach; he’d only accept as head coach, not D.C. (Defensive Coordinator).
• Both say the next coach will need a five-year minimum, with expectations of culture change being paramount.
• Acknowledgment of Steelers and NFL tendency to stick with first-rounders and coaches too long due to sunk cost.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Coach Tomlin, great coach, great leader of men, great rah rah…But...it was his time to go. I love the way he was an adult, read the room.”
— Joe Haden (05:10)

"Coach T is an all time great motivator...but to me, a great coach has an added dynamic: mentor...it's been almost 20 years and Mike T don't have a coaching tree. Why is that, Joe?"
— James “Deebo” Harrison (09:00)

“Motivation is...very inconsistent, bro. It's a feeling-based thing. That's what we've been seeing in Pittsburgh...inconsistent play, coaching for the last decade.”
— James “Deebo” Harrison (25:00)

“If you're actually the one bringing in the talent...then the buck really does have to stop on you...I'm with you 1000%.”
— Joe Haden (45:09)

"A good coach motivates. A great coach gets you beyond your level of play. Like Dick LeBeau...I won a title under Tomlin...but he was a good coach, not a great one."
— James “Deebo” Harrison (45:32)

“I do not want teachers, I want parents, professors of the game.”
— James “Deebo” Harrison (70:56)

“You got to realize a lot of coaches, when they get this head coach thing, it's a lot of ego that go with that.”
— James “Deebo” Harrison (30:38)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• Opening Tomlin Discussion: 02:24 – 07:21
• Motivation vs. Greatness Debate: 07:21 – 15:28
• Coach Tomlin’s Lack of Coaching Tree: 09:55, 13:57
• Draft Power & Results: 15:28 – 22:55
• Playoff Performance Metrics: 22:55 – 35:22
• Personal Relationships & Leadership: 35:22 – 45:21
• Mentorship and Development: 45:21 – 54:11
• Rebuild Future: 60:45 – 66:23
• Who should the next Steelers coach be? 68:25 – 71:41
• Mailbag/Q&A on Tomlin and Next Steps: 78:24 – 85:43

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Tone & Takeaways

This episode is marked by candid, at times raw, insider perspective and debate. While Joe Haden lauds Tomlin’s leadership qualities, game preparation, and historic consistency, James “Deebo” Harrison demands sharper lines between motivation and true greatness, focusing on tangible development of staff and players, playoff records, and organizational structure. Both agree the Steelers face a consequential crossroads and urge shrewd, forward-thinking decisions in both roster and coaching staff.

For anyone invested in the future of the Steelers—or the definition of greatness in NFL coaching—this is a must-listen, brimming with unfiltered analysis and first-hand accounts.

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Transcript

[James Debo Harrison]

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

Show me the way.

[Joe Hayden]

This is Julian Edelman from Games with Names. Now let's get into the serious stuff. We're talking football food, specifically Daisy French onion dip. These are so delicious. They're like homemade dips made with real herb and spices. Also made with some daisy sour cream. Daisy sour cream is a long standing.

[James Debo Harrison]

Staple for Taco Tuesday. They also have daisy ranch dip.

[Joe Hayden]

So get out there and give Daisy French onion dip a try. You will not regret it.

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[James Debo Harrison]

With special guests. Get Tickets [e-mail] Chris Stapleton's All American Roadshow. Welcome back to D Boy Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison. I'm here with my co host Joe Hayden. Please make sure you like and subscribe. You don't want to miss nothing. How you doing today, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

Bro, I'm doing, I'm doing pretty good, Deebo. I'm doing good. Another day the Lord has made. But honestly, with Coach T stepping off, you know, it was, I was a little, I was a little emotional. I'm happy. But we gonna get into it. I'm happy how it happened and how he's able to walk away. But you know, I legitimately, you know what I'm saying? That it hit me for a little bit. But I rock with Coach T big time.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. Okay. With all the, you know, all the stuff coming out, you know, like he's the all time, he's one of the all time greats and all that. Do you, do you agree with that? Do you disagree with that? This is. You know what? Hold up before you answer that though. I Also want to know what's your measurement for all time?

[Joe Hayden]

That's what I have to tell you, too. When we have the conversation of all time greats, that's the same conversation I feel like I have. When we talk about hall of Fame, like, is he in the hall of Fame? There's different classes. Are we talking like Michael Jordan? You know what I'm saying? Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kyrie Irving is in that same hall of Fame. But I feel like there might be a different class. So when we talk about the greatest coach of all time, I, I don't think Mike Tomlin might not go down as the greatest coach of all time. No. There's plenty of coaches. You can go with Bill Belichick, you can go with Chuck Noel, you can go with other coaches for sure that are in a different class, that you could say that have done it in a way higher level. But when we talk about greatness, when we talk about hall of Fame status, I don't like to bash Coach Tomlin and put another man down to raise another man up. So I would say, when you say greatest of all time, I don't think so. You know what I'm saying? Hall of Fame is why I say, yes, he's in the hall of Fame for sure. Like, there's a room for the LeBron James and the Michael Jordans in the hall of Fame, but still, Kyrie Irving is a Hall of Fame player. And that's what I put it. Where, like Bill Belichick, Mike Tomlin, you know what I'm saying, you can put greatness of other coaches that are better than him that I've seen before, that have done it to the greatest level. But when you say, is Ghost Tom the great coach? I can say, yes, he's a great coach. Maybe not the greatest of all time. There's plenty other coaches you can pick. But I got to. I can put him. I can put him in that class. I can put him in that room. So with me, I think he is a Hall of Fame coach. I think he's a great coach. He's one of the best coach. He's the best football, NFL football coach that I've ever played for. So there's certain people that play for you play for other coaches. But for me personally, I played for Eric Mangini, I played for Pat Shermer, I played for Rob Chaczynski, I played for Mike Petton, and I played for Hugh Jackson. And then when I went to the Steelers, I played for Mike Tomlin out of my NFL career, I played 12 years in the league. I would like to call myself a great NFL player. A dude that comes in there and does his job at a very high level. My best coach ever by far was Mike Tomlin. I never went into a game ill prepared. I felt like when I was there he gave us the keys to victory. He let us know the winning edge. I never had a winning edge. Meeting with the head coach before where you would go and meet with just the DBs and a couple of the outside linebackers and get the breakdown of while we're running these plays, while we're doing these certain schemes and what to expect. So we in my position, Coach Tomlin, great coach, great leader of men, great rah rah his team meetings, the way that he did that stuff. 19 years, 13 playoff appearances, seven AFC championships and a Super bowl and went to two. That's nothing to shun on or shy about or take lightly. So I like the way that he was able to. I think at the same time both two things could be right. I think his time was up in Pittsburgh for sure. You know what I'm saying? Like the last couple of years he just hasn't been able to do it. So him being able to read the room, not get kicked out of the room, you want to be desired and not be putting up with. So when you're in the stadiums and you start hearing the boos. Coach Tomlin's not stupid, he's not blind or deaf. When he's been hearing the rumblings for years of all these play all these 800 seasons aren't good enough for us, this isn't going to be good enough. So him to go in there and keep it where TJ Watt. I don't think Highsmith, I don't think dudes really knew that he was probably about to leave. But to go in there, keep it going, still make the playoffs and then once, once the season was over and they didn't, he hasn't been doing as well as he should have been doing. He gracefully bowed out, told him like Rooney, I'm ready to step off, I'm ready to go. Like this isn't really what's going on for me. So I, I think it was his time to go. I love the way he was an adult, read the room. Didn't have to either force his way to come back next year and do all of that stuff. I think Coach T liked to be in there. Loves when love feeling wanted. Likes when you come into the in the stadium knowing they're cheering for you.

[James Debo Harrison]

They'Re rooting for you.

[Joe Hayden]

But the backing of the fans and hearing what was going on and seven straight years of them not winning any playoff games, that's real live, that's happening on the football field. So him taking some accountability for that too is legit. But for me, I think he is a great coach. But there's levels to greatness. And I can say how other people could think there's other great coaches, but in my eyes and from my perspective of knowing how to go into the games, what he gave me when I was there, I love that man. And yeah. So that's what it is with me.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, so you, you're not saying the greatest to one of the greatest to ever do it, right? No.

[Joe Hayden]

No.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. All right. That's all right. I'm cool with you on that now. Great. I can't. I'm not gonna say I can agree with you on that. Okay. The, the reason I can't agree with you on that is because I feel that just looking at what I'm seeing right now from guys saying, you know, you know, Coach Tomlin is the greatest coach to ever do it. One of the greatest to ever do it. He's a leader of men, you know, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff, I will agree with him. He is a leader of men. But to be a good coach, you have to be a leader of men. The guys have to respect you. They have to know that you're what you're talking about, that the decisions that you make, like you said going into the game, it works, it stands out, you're able to do it. It, you gotta buy into it. Okay? But the major reason I feel a lot of guys is saying he's a great coach is because Coach T is a all time great motivator, dude. Yes, he is a all time great motivator. He has the gift of gab. That's Coach T. Okay. And he's great at getting guys to, you know, feel good about they self boost their confidence. You know, he hitting them with the Tomlin isms and all that. You know, it's a five star matchup because we in it. Standard is the standard. Don't blink. If you blink, peel your eyelids off, you know. Yeah. And players like, they're taking that motivation and the leader of men and they're calling it greatness. You can be a leader of men and not be a great motivator. Some people don't have to get the gab. Joe tell you. And I know we're in the game. We're sitting there before the game and we're about to go out and the coach says, hey, so and so, get up and do the, do the, do the pregame before we walk out. And the first thing to yourself is, oh, hell no, not him. He is not a leader of men. Nine times out of ten he got that C on his chest. But his motivation game is trash. Okay? Yeah. And to me, a great coach dude has an added dynamic to it and that's mentor. And I'm not talking about personal and emotional because that's what I'm hearing from a lot of guys. I'm talking about you learned enough from this person that they took your teachings, your guidance and went on to become a version of you, I. E. A coaching tree. Okay, it's been almost 20 years and Mike T. Don't have a coaching tree. Why is that, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know.

[James Debo Harrison]

You got no answer. You have no answer why he doesn't have a coaching tree after being in the NFL almost 20 years. But he is one of the all time greats and no owner, no gm. Nobody has came and said, you know what? I want one of your coaches that are under you. And I want that for my team. I can use that person to lead my team, to lead my defense, to lead my offense.

[Joe Hayden]

Can I ask you this? Can I ask you this at the same, at the same time? I'm going to submit you back with one question I'm not sure of the coaching with the hiring process. Are these all coach T's? Is he 100%? 100%. He brings in the coach 100%.

[James Debo Harrison]

Remember, remember, coach T promotes from within.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, no, no, no. I hear that, but I'm just asking. I'm just asking. I'm blind asking because I don't know, certain coaches don't have that pool. I don't know where I was at. Coaches was getting fired. GM's was staying. GM's was staying. Coaches are getting fired. So you don't know how. I don't. And I need to know. The level of. The level of pool makes it easier for me to give accountability. So if you're able to bring in your coaches like you said, if you have reason to bring in your coaches and you do bring in these coaches and then they don't happen to pan out and they're getting fired and they're not treeing off and they're not doing well, then you're that stuff that I did not know. So that brings knowledge to me that puts that on the head coach. I'm thinking more. It's got to be. Everybody's in cahoots. We got. It's more than. You know what I'm saying. It takes more than two to tango.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. No question. But this. This is something, like I said, that I know. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

You don't. You don't have an answer for that. Okay. No. So with that said, let's give the little people. Let's get the people a little insight, because they say I'm hating. That's what. That's. That's been the story since they released James in 2017, was. James is hating on Coach T. Okay, Joe. So this is what we go do, Joe. We go get. We go give these people that are here. I wanted to call them something else, but I'm not a little less. Okay. So, Joe, you and I have both played in this league for a long time, all right?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes. Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

And there's things that goes on in this league that we will never talk about to the regular public, because it's just an unspoken rule that you don't do. Do you agree?

[Joe Hayden]

I would a thousand percent agree.

[James Debo Harrison]

Well, that's. Unless somebody speaks out against you, then that's a little different. And the crazy thing is usually when that happens, the people don't believe it. And when somebody speak that out loud, they don't believe it.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah. Because he said they're gonna say agreeable.

[James Debo Harrison]

Right. Okay, so now. Right, Right. It's not believed. He's saying this because of this. He's saying this because of that. Okay. So we're giving that. We're both in agreeing on that statement. It's a valid thing. Yeah. Now, the reason this doesn't happen is because a lot of guys are trying to get back into the NFL when they're done. So if you break that unspoken rule, it's highly unlikely you're going to get in. Because if you did it to them, you could do it to me.

[Joe Hayden]

Would you agree with that, Debo Stamp? Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, now. Now that. That said also know what's going on at other teams at other leagues, especially now, because guys are friends with other players on other teams and they talk to each other and tell each other what's going on at other teams, and the coaches and management of those teams do the same. Would you agree with that?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Joe. So this is what I believe been happening in Pittsburgh and why Coach Tomlin doesn't have a coach entry after almost 20 years. Because these GMs and these owners know what's happening behind closed doors, so it would make zero sense for them to go and get a guy and promote him when they already know he doesn't have the skills to do the job. Would you. Would you. Would you. Would that make sense to you, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I mean. I mean, I didn't have. I didn't have a reason. And when you broke down what you just said, that sounds like a reason that would make sense.

[James Debo Harrison]

Now, you add that to a statement that was released where Art said none of his coaches are up for the head coaching job. Go find another job that would be more highly likely that they would go on. Or that. Or the reason why he doesn't have a coach entry. Okay. Would you. Would you agree with that?

[Joe Hayden]

I would say he might. Look, if you don't have a coaching tree I said he hired, he was bad at hiring coaches. The dudes he thought were going to be good the thing were not good. You know what I'm saying? Like, I could say that.

[James Debo Harrison]

You could say that he made a mistake in hiring coaches.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, yes, I could say that. I could say that. If he was accountable for hiring these offensive coordinators that haven't been really doing too well, then I would say yes, and do it as a defensive coordinator, but yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes. So at some point, we had almost six, seven, eight openings and. And not one of these other coaches were mentioned for the head job, except for what's his name, the OC but he already had a head job, so he's not considered to be a tree. That would come from Tomlin anyway. Okay, okay. Fuck his name. You know, I'm talking about the O.C. all right, so now they go with the. Oh, he's did so. Oh, he's there so much with so little, right? Yes, he's there so much with so little. And I give him credit for that. You know that. I give him credit because that's what a good coach does. Okay?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

But I also have to take credit away because he's been there 19 years and he's 100% responsible for that roster. I got my guy things in.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what's going on.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay? And like the Ravens owner said, he said, I'm going to give him save and no power. Huh? That was that. That was how he operated. He gonna give you safe, but at the end of the day, he's gonna have the power to make the pick or decision of the player that he wants. Okay? And I honestly, I don't have a problem with that because I'm the head Coach. Yeah. I'm the one that's gonna get fired if this go wrong.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, who's. When we just. But right before Omar, we. It was my man, Kevin Colbert. Kevin Colbert. So you telling me now that they, they were working together but Coach T. Had the final say, I would say.

[James Debo Harrison]

Sometime between 13 to 15. Coach T got say of what it was he wanted to do, who he would be able to pick when it came down to a decision of who has the say. Okay, okay.

[Joe Hayden]

This is good knowledge for me.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dma. Now go back to that. Now go back to that. Okay, so we ain't won a playoff game since what, 15, 16. Right. And that's on him. He's done a horrible job in the draft process. A horrible job. If you go back to 2015 to now, we have only given two players in those first two rounds. Long term extensions. Okay. TJ and Friar move two out of 15. That is 100% him. That is 100% him. Why? Why is that? Why didn't you give more guys extensions?

[Joe Hayden]

I mean, I guess the main ones was like I say, I was thinking Juju. We say Shayzir got hurt. Sorry. That was a, that was a good pick. Shazier got hurt. Juju deontay.

[James Debo Harrison]

It's 15 all together. Only two of them got long term extensions. Say it could have been three if say zero didn't getting hurt. Is that still a good percentage?

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, it's not. It's not, it's not.

[James Debo Harrison]

But, but a great coach made, made, made those, made those decisions. And, and he got all that power. Okay. And another reason I believe he wanted to get that power is he came in, he came in, he made great coaching decisions. When he came in, first thing he did, he kept the whole defensive staff. You got a defense that was ranked a 1, 4 and a 9 in the three years before that. You can't really let that go because if you let that go in the defense, you throw in there, don't do no better. You might be out of a job before even starts.

[Joe Hayden]

But that's what I'm saying. You can't blame. That's smart. If you see you guys, that's smart.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what I'm saying. That's a good coach. I'm agreeing with you.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. Now he, he went in BA Bruce Arians. Bruce Arians was promoted to the offensive coordinator. Again, a good coaching decision. Why? BA Was the receivers coach. He was brought in under coward. But you got Ben, who is just now starting to come into his own and you want to tell him he got to learn a new system. That wouldn't be a good decision. That's very smart on his behalf. That is a good coaching decision. Because of that, he went and won a Super bowl in year two and went back again two years later.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. I give him credit for that.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, good.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. But what I don't give him credit for is because he did not pick those players. Those are Bill Cowers players. And that, again, is another reason why I believe he was looking for power. As much as he say he don't hear the outside noise. He heard people talking about. That was Coward's team. You just took Coward's team to the super bowl year. In year two, you go and win the super bowl, you go back again two years after that. And when you look at the roster, I believe the most was like three. Three starters on defense. And the first one might have been one or two. I think Woodley was. Was. Was one. And Timmons, I think, was rotating with foot. Okay. The one we went back and we ended up losing, it was Timmons and Woodley, those were his two, and I think it was one more. I. I don't. I don't remember who it was. Okay, so now you go from there. Since our last playoff win in 2016, bro, under his guidance, him being able to pick who he want, we are getting further and further away from a championship.

[Joe Hayden]

Joe, I would say the two years, you're correct, the 16, I feel like that year when you won the playoffs.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh.

[Joe Hayden]

That was the beating Jesse James year. That was the beating Jesse James. And then the next year, 2017, that was when we went 13.

[Commercial Announcer]

3.

[Joe Hayden]

Had to buy. And that's when Shayzir got hurt and we brought up my man Sean Spence from the couch at the crib, and Jacksonville toted on us and we gave up 45 points. So I think that those two years, 16, 17. Bad, bad luck.

[James Debo Harrison]

Bad luck, bad luck. Okay, hold up. Great teams.

[Joe Hayden]

Bad luck.

[James Debo Harrison]

All right, so the rest of it.

[Joe Hayden]

From that point on, after you said that, from that point on, after 17, then. I'm with you. Things didn't look good. And I think that's when Coach T. Started realizing that it was. It wasn't looking good either.

[James Debo Harrison]

Now, hold on. I want you to. I want you. I want you to think about this now. What year you got there? You got there in 17, right?

[Joe Hayden]

I got there at 17.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. So from 15 until 18, the offense was never ranked lower than a 4. So all these people that want to say he never had a quarterback he never had this. Aaron Rodgers is the first quarterback he, he had. Y' all just throwing being out the window. You talking about offense that was ranked 4, 3, 3 and 7. Okay. And in that time we made it to the AFC championship game and we lost two times in the first round and didn't even make it one year to the playoffs. Along with that, as you said, you came in 2017. We had a fifth ranked defense in 2017 that lost in the first round, as you just said. And we had a six defense in 2018. And you're pairing that with a three and a four offense.

[Joe Hayden]

But you gotta do more.

[James Debo Harrison]

You don't even make the playoffs. But again, you're saying that's one of the great coaches of all time, right? Bro. Bro. Great. Not all time. That's one. He's a great coach.

[Joe Hayden]

He's a great. He's a great hall of Fame coach. For sure. For sure.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, so you don't see this as maybe a dismantlement?

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no, no. Look, the coaches come in the league like for the consistency is still something we can't say like he underpo. We could say he underperformed. In some of these years it should have been more Super Bowls than not. He did go to the big game and win it. You say it was the other people's team. You still got to go out there and coach them. You still got to be able to lead them the whole season, offseason, everything, keep them motivated, keep them going. So all that stuff is difficult. It's difficult to do when you go with no years of having Duck Hodges, then when people start getting hurt and who picked him. I'm just saying no matter who's there, you coach. That's. You're saying when he's getting more, if that's his right, he's getting more, he's going to give him more reason. Okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

Right. He's getting more with less. We can say that it was times where they're like, oh, the Steelers won't make the playoffs, the Steelers make the playoffs and get popped out in the first round. He got more with less, but he get way less with far more. A great coach don't do that, Joe. Yeah, a great coach don't do that, Joe. Joe, you came from Cleveland knocking you and nothing like that. But you went from Cleveland to what you had to Mike Tomlin. I went from Bill Cower, Mike Tomlin to Cincinnati with Lewis and then my last ended up coming back to the Steelers and then finishing off with with Belichick. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, so what would you rank your coaches? Where would you rank the order of Mike Tomlin? With them. With them. With those other coaches?

[James Debo Harrison]

I would rank Bill. Oh, well, hold on. I would rank Belichick, Cowell, Tomlin, and then. Okay, Lewis. Okay. That's where I would rank him. Okay. Now he's a good coach. Okay? A good coach finds a way to motivate his players, to lead his players. Okay. And he gets the potential out of his players. Okay. But the only problem with motivation because he's a great motivator is it doesn't last long. It's very inconsistent, bro. It's a feeling based thing. Motivation is. And that's what we've been seeing in Pittsburgh. It is emotional feelings based. It's inconsistent play coaching for the last decade because our coach is a great motivator, not a great coach. Just like what you're seeing right now with all these guys with these emotional attachments, you being one of the guys included, that it's not performance based on the field. You. It is personal experience and relationship based. You came from a situation where you didn't even know what a good coach was to. Now you're saying that's a great. I know what great coaches look like. I know what great coaches look. I know how they. I know how they move. I know how they approach. I know what my measurement of greatness is.

[Joe Hayden]

Coach T. A Hall of Fame coach.

[James Debo Harrison]

In your opinion, say what?

[Joe Hayden]

Is Coach T. A Hall of Fame coach, in your opinion? No. Okay, so now that's. Yeah, that. That's actually crazy. Okay. Yeah. So we're, We're.

[James Debo Harrison]

We're just. The thing. I can't give him a hall of fame coach for is because he hasn't made disciples you for 100 days.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm going to cross the seven continents because the answers to everything important are out there at the edges of our world. I'm stepping into the unknown. Where are we going to see our planet? This is amazing as it's never been seen before. From pole to pole. Pole to Pole with Will Smith from National Geographic now streaming on Disney plus and Hulu.

[James Debo Harrison]

Show me the way.

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[James Debo Harrison]

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[James Debo Harrison]

A Hall of Fame coach. No one has followed you. No one hits that. That can't be the thing. He's the only candy that has coached this long and does not have a tree, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

Guys are emotionally I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna say I'm not. No no no. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna not give him the hall of Fame nod because he's bad at hiring offensive offensive coordinators when I.

[James Debo Harrison]

Talk and you think that is a thing that he's bad at doing? Or do you think that is a thing that he purposely does to keep position and power.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no. I don't think he self sabotages.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't. I'm not saying you self sabotage.

[Joe Hayden]

If you're hiring back. If you're hiring other coaches that aren't good enough because you think they're going to take the spotlight out of you.

[Commercial Announcer]

Aha.

[James Debo Harrison]

There's no spotlight. Is it enough spotlight?

[Joe Hayden]

No. Is that. Is that. Is that what you were saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

Listen, listen, listen, Joe. Is it enough spotlight to go around? You got to realize a lot of coaches, when they get this head coach thing, it's a lot of ego that go with that. It's a lot of ego that go with that. Okay, now a great coach, dude, like the measurement of greatness, like, it's not based on personal experiences and relationship you have with them. It is purely on what you did as a coach. Did you get championships?

[Joe Hayden]

What about wins and losses disciples? Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Wins and losses is great. All of that. Wins and losses have to add up to championships, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

He has a ship.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, so I'm the greatest of all time as a linebacker because I got two Super Bowls.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no, no. This is what I'm saying.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what you're saying.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, I don't. Like, I don't.

[Commercial Announcer]

He.

[Joe Hayden]

But why not? He went to the playoffs 13 times out of his 19 seasons. He went. He won the AFC championship seven times.

[James Debo Harrison]

How many times did he win?

[Joe Hayden]

He won it. But we're not saying that he's the greatest.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, no, no, no. How many playoff games did he win? Because when you look at the greats, the measurement of greatness for all time greats, like everybody is saying right now, nobody has a negative postseason record. And I can go back. Back. Like you go back to George Hallis 6 and 3. You go back to Don Shuler 19 and 17. It's still better than what he had. Like even Paul Brown, 98. Bill Belichick, 31 and 13, bro. Andy Reid, 28 and 17.

[Joe Hayden]

Like, you want to hear some what's.

[James Debo Harrison]

Timeless playoff record we have?

[Joe Hayden]

We have at least. We have one Bud Grant.

[James Debo Harrison]

Can you tell me. Can you tell me what Thomas playoff record?

[Joe Hayden]

No, I don't. No.

[James Debo Harrison]

Why not?

[Joe Hayden]

Because what is 8 and what is it? 8 and 12, huh? What is it?

[James Debo Harrison]

What's his playoff record? You don't know it.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know it. What is it?

[James Debo Harrison]

But that's a measure.

[Joe Hayden]

What's his playoff.

[James Debo Harrison]

He hall of Fame. He fought. Hall of Fame record. He measured.

[Joe Hayden]

What's his playoff record, Debo.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't know. Joe, I don't know.

[Joe Hayden]

You don't know either.

[James Debo Harrison]

You said it was because of playoffs, but I'm just trying to figure out. I mean, if you're going to argue that number.

[Joe Hayden]

I mean, look, he won a ship. He hasn't had more losing seasons than winning season. You're not going to win it every year.

[James Debo Harrison]

One team's going to win 12, bro. He. 8 and 12.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, that's what I thought it was. 8 and 12. One team's going to win it. So him being right into the dance, like, why.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, so a Hall of Fame. Listen, listen, Joe. So a Hall of Fame coach should be making history for maybe having the longest losing streak in playoff history since it began. You're tied with. With. With. With Marvin Lewis as the longest head coach to NFL history. You're tied as the longest luking street seven games straight. That should be. That should be a. That's. That's a great coach.

[Joe Hayden]

That's a. That's definitely not. It doesn't. It's not a good stat. But you got to put the good with the bad. You can't just take away all of the stuff we said before. When he first got out there.

[James Debo Harrison]

You just said hall of Fame was because of playoffs. Which one is it, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

He's a Hall of Fame coach.

[James Debo Harrison]

Because of what?

[Joe Hayden]

Because that. He's went. Because we went 19 seasons with zero losing records. That doesn't happen. That's just not easy when you. You just overshadow that. You know what I'm saying? 13. He did go to the playoffs 13 times. He did go to the Super Bowl. Two times.

[James Debo Harrison]

He did win. So you're good with eight. Eight. I mean, you've been. You've been.

[Joe Hayden]

His record is better than 8.

[James Debo Harrison]

N. He's won 192, the measurement of a Pittsburgh Steeler.

[Joe Hayden]

He's 192 and 114. So he's better than 8 and 8. His overall record is better than 8 and 8. And he's won a Super Bowl. So I understand.

[James Debo Harrison]

As long as you have an overall better team.

[Joe Hayden]

Well, I'm still not saying it's not his time to go. Like, his time is good right now.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm not saying it's not his time to go. I'm talking about. Great.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

What's his hall of Fame qualification? For me. For you?

[Joe Hayden]

I just was giving it to you. I'm going to keep. You want me to keep saying the same thing over and over again?

[James Debo Harrison]

You said playoff record. Then you said.

[Joe Hayden]

I said he went to The. He's played. He's with a coach 19 years, right? 13 playoff appearances, seven AFC championships, two Super bowl appearances, one Super bowl victory. Okay?

[James Debo Harrison]

So anybody that wins a Super bowl should be a great coach.

[Joe Hayden]

Whoever keeps this long line, agility of consistency of winning, keeping a team in the. In the fight. You got a dog, have a dog in the fight, so you got to.

[James Debo Harrison]

Have 19 years, and you got to have.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, no, no, no. You don't have to have 19 years. You don't have to have 19 years. He could have done better. He could have done more than this. But that's what I'm still saying at the same time. That's why he's not the greatest coach of all time, but he's a damn sure great coach that deserves to be in the hall of Fame. That's all I'm saying.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay? So again, for me, what I'm seeing, what is being said out here is the emotional attachments these guys have to Mike Tomlin. And for me, I didn't have that emotional attachment with him.

[Joe Hayden]

I can respect that you didn't have the emotional I had.

[James Debo Harrison]

If I had stopped playing, maybe in 2012, I might be one of those guys that was saying the same thing.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, you know why, Deebo? Because then we speak this, too. It's a relationship thing. You and Coach Tomlin have years with each other that at the same one time when you were balling, hooping, everything, then another relationship where you, like, you felt like you was probably done dirty, did you wrong, said some things, lied. You know what I'm saying? So a whole different relationship, different thing going on where. You know what I'm saying? How. How can people.

[James Debo Harrison]

Then.

[Joe Hayden]

That's why you can sit there and say that it's that. That type of way. Me, too. At the same way, when I wanted to redo my deal, we talking about, oh, yeah, Joe, you're gonna finish your career here. And then all of a sudden, it went crickets. I could feel some type of way like coach.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, no, no. See, it's totally different. You're saying that, oh, you thought you were gonna finish your career there, and da, da, da, da. See, when what. What that gives me is I have clarity because our relationship was business. It was just that.

[Joe Hayden]

No.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Okay, so how. How the saying go, Joe? I. I lied for you before. I lied to you. Yeah, right. The number one thing I was taught by my parents is you never lie to me. Because if you lie to me, I can't help you. And then I can't Trust you. Okay. The first time I know he lied to me was 2010. But that wasn't the biggest thing because I didn't have that relationship with him. That I understood it was no obligation for him to tell me the truth. But the big thing was the first time I know he lied on me, and that was 2013. Oh. And as much as he doesn't say, or as much as he says he doesn't listen to the outside noise, I found that to be a lie in 2018. You wanna know how I know, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

How you know, Deebo?

[James Debo Harrison]

Because he texted me. He was into his feelings, Joe. Because I said that Belichick was a better coach than him. They asked me a question and I asked. I was on Fox then. 2018, brother. I never forget it.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay?

[James Debo Harrison]

I was on with Skip and Shannon, and they asked me and I, hey, I gave. I gave my opinion on what it was and. And why it was. Okay? Now, he responded with something like, woodley was a smarter player than you, blah, blah. You know what? I don't even want. I want to give you this verbatim, you know, that I don't wanna. I don't wanna. I don't know.

[Joe Hayden]

You don't want to miss words.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't want to mince words and. And say and. Because it is verbatim, matter of fact. Like I said, it was 2018. I was doing commentating for Fox, and I would go up there, like, maybe once or twice a month and be there for like, two, three days. I go on all the shows, you know, do the commentating. They'd ask me, whatever. So now this text I get from him. Oh, no, you're there in 2018. Yeah. So the text I get from him. Here's the crazy thing. It's almost three, four weeks after it was said. Okay? It's August 7, 2018, at 1:35. Joe, what time do y' all go to practice?

[Joe Hayden]

Toby saw probably like 2.

[James Debo Harrison]

Mm, like 2, 2, 2:30, something like that. But this is what's on your mind. He's watching me on tv. This has gotten to him somehow. Here is his text. He says, wood was a smarter player than you, but I would never say that to anybody but you. I'm not with you for what you say. I'm always with you because of your relationship with the game and what you were willing to do. Don't act funny. I will always be with you, no matter how fucked up you are. Lol. Now, my response to him was, quote, if you wanted to tell the world that I would not be upset. That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, just like I'm entitled to mine. No disrespect meant by it. It was just my honest answer to a question that was asked. Good luck, Thursday. I'll always be with you, no matter how fucked up you are. 100. Now you're telling me someone who doesn't listen to the outside noise is texting me that on a Tuesday before he's playing a Thursday game?

[Joe Hayden]

If it's a Tuesday. Look, it could have been a day off. Tuesday was a long day.

[James Debo Harrison]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I made sure I looked at it. I made sure I looked at. Wasn't a day off.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay?

[James Debo Harrison]

It was a Thursday game. Oh, I had practice.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, we had practice on that Tuesday.

[James Debo Harrison]

So, again, my relationship with him is totally different. I can separate. I can separate the great coach from the great motivation. Guys that are in that position now, they still have that emotional attachment, and that makes them overshadow when you start looking at pure numbers, because coaching is something that is based on numbers and development. And he does not have the ability, because he does not have a coaching tree to actually get coaches out and end through his tute. But that's a great coach.

[Joe Hayden]

I think. Like, when. Why don't you think he would just hire. Do you think he's purposely not hired? I, like. I just don't understand personally. Higher.

[James Debo Harrison]

Just from that. It lets me know. It lets me know you feel a certain type of way.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

He. This is. This is the one thing I thought I said. I might have said it to you. I said, only way Mike Tom gets out of here is if he wants to leave. Yeah. And it was one of two things. Okay. It was gonna be his ego.

[Joe Hayden]

Or.

[James Debo Harrison]

It was going to. His pride. It was going to be his ego or his pride.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, why he. Why he left?

[James Debo Harrison]

Why he would leave or stay?

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

His pride is the part that would make him leave. He wouldn't be able to take the outside noise he doesn't listen to or says he doesn't hear. His ego would make him stay because I don't care what they say. I'm staying. I'll leave when I want to leave. And I think maybe the pride spoke a little louder.

[Joe Hayden]

Debo, I just say one thing, man. The. The fact that you have. You can speak on, like you said, the emotional part. And people get really in their feelings and get emotionally attached to Coach T. Because like you said, he is a great speaker. He is a great when they say leader of men. But I cause like when I can only know from where I came from. And the one thing too I could say is when I was in Florida, when I was at Florida, when we didn't win national championships, Urban Meyer was a special teams coach. We had a great defensive coordinator in Charlie Strong, we had a great offensive coordinator and Dan Mullen. So he put off things to other people that made sure those dudes knew exactly what was going on. And you got to kind of give off tasks and make sure you can't just be the only one running the whole kitchen because it takes a village. You know what I'm saying? Your GM got to be on the same page with you. Your coach has got to be on the same page. Your ownership has to be kind of following, kind of. Everybody's got to be working together. So I'm with you on not being emotional on my part is I don't know all the nuances of what Coach T really had the power to do, what pull he had, what say so he had. So when I'm coming in, I'm knowing what I'm going to do my job. And if my coach gives me the tools to make sure I can go out there and do what I got to do to make sure we win. And if we don't win, we see why we didn't. And he gives us the facts and tools and the keys to victory. And if we go do this, we're going to go win these games every week. You know what I'm saying? Never went in there ill prepared. So I hear what you're saying too. With a great coach, if you really going to do it and this is kind of bringing it to me where you can be a great head coach, you gotta have the gm, right? You gotta make sure your offense coordinator, you gotta be able to set people up and put them in positions to where now that's kind of how you build a tree. How Belichick and how these dudes have dudes that are disciples of them because they kind of taught them put them in positions and they kind of got it. That's the part of where I'm always understanding great coach is what are you telling me to do? Are you making sure I know exactly what to do and when I need to do it to go win and then coach me up to like not just bad tape is bad tape I in the sky don't lie. Being accountable for everybody like showing the stuff I was with that so I can on that part is why I Say great coach. On the other part is where like there's a whole lot more where if you're not, if you and the GM aren't on the same page, if you're actually the one bringing in the talent, if you're bringing in these quarterbacks, signing these guys, drafting these people, then the buck really does have to stop on you. If everything's not performing, if you're not getting the best out the people that you hand selected. So I'm with you 1000%.

[James Debo Harrison]

Deebo.

[Joe Hayden]

You kind of giving me a lot of more knowledge where like I as coaching, leader of men, making sure I knew what I was doing, great coach as far as bringing in talent.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what I'm trying to say, Joe. You're saying great coach, leader of men, telling me when I'm supposed to. That's a good coach. To me, a great coach gets you beyond what your actual level of play is. Like Dick lebone, if it wasn't for Dick lebeau, There is no James Harrison. Dick lebeau got me to play beyond the potential of what James Harrison was because he was an undrafted nobody. That would be nothing but a whole life special teams player. Go to that and you go to Keith Butler, my linebacker coach, the greatest linebacker coach I ever had, okay? He is the person that developed me, turned me into what I am, made me what I am, showed me how to do this job, the nuances of doing it in and out. And I played it in Dick LeBeau's defense, okay? And that was tailor made for me. The same defense I thought was so hard and difficult for me to learn, once I actually sat down, became a truth professional, understood what I needed to do and learned it and put it on tape. It was easy for me to go out there and play and excel in it because those were two great people that were in it. Yeah, I wanna, I won a title on the Tommy. Yes, I give him that. Good coach. Good coach. He did the things necessary to keep the people in place because that's what was there. It would be foolish to leave the. Let those people go. Okay. And also some, when we were sitting there at the game, what the HAMP say? 95 is a good player, right? He said he's a good player. I looked it up, bro. 95 is a good player. 95 is a good player.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

As much as I said he's not. But you know why he's not a good player? Because they plan him out of position. You're telling me a great coach takes a athlete like that, that could be great. And puts him in a position to not excel.

[Joe Hayden]

What position we need to put him at, though?

[James Debo Harrison]

He needs to be on the end.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay, okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

He needs to be on the end. He's a rush in dude. All right. He actually got dude, like. Like, for real.

[Joe Hayden]

Is it because he too leases? He's quick, but he's too light.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dude. Here's. Here's a. Here's a funny thing. Before TJ moved to the left, Peasy was the linebacker. Coach. I said peasy, yes. I know y' all ain't gonna do nothing with me and let me play on the right, but move TJ to the left. I would see every time in practice, when TJ got to practice rushing on the left, he had that move. Can't nobody stop. I'm like, just moving to the left. Like, just moving to the left. They thinking, I wanna. I wanna. I wanna get in there and play that. I know y' all not gonna play me. I already know that. I want you move to the TJ to the left automatically. He could get that. They don't do it. TJ finally was like, yo, and wanted off season. Oh, I want to move to the left. Move to the left. Boom. Gone. Gone.

[Joe Hayden]

Should have moved into the left quicker.

[James Debo Harrison]

Should have moved into the left quicker. Quicker. Like, we're at a point right now where. Or we got to a point where when Cower was there, coward drafted talent for the position that was needed to get the job done at that position. I think around that 13, 15 time frame, Coach Tomlin got into drafting athletes, numbers, speed, all that, and not getting players that could do the skill needed at the position, which in 13 led to Dick LeBeau's defense dropping in 13 and 14, and then them not renewing him, because now you have him at a. I think it was a 13 and 13 and a 18 in 14. And now you can say, you know what? His defense don't work. That was. That was a call. His defense don't work no more. It just. It just don't work. It don't work. That's not true. His defense works. It was younger and younger players starting. Dick LeBeau's defense, he don't start rookies. It's only been one rookie before 2013 that started in a Dick Lebow defense, and that was Kendra Obel. And we ran. I don't even know if y' all ran this. We ran gap Mac. We. We ran Mac games. So we ran Mac games. So it was either gap Mac, knife, sword, gun, switch, whatever, whatever it was. So it was exactly. Exactly. You don't even know what I'm talking about. You got there in 17. That's why you think he's right and I'm wrong and I. We have a difference of opinion. That told the Mac backer to hit gaps A through B. I mean, A through D over here or A through D over here. Why? Because I don't want him thinking I need to get him to where he knows where he's going. Because in that defense, you didn't play. In the pure Dick LeBeau fire zone defense. When I got there and in 14, I was like, yo, what? Why were we changing this? When I unretired and came back, I'm like, some things don't change. And it's like, yo, we had to change some things so players didn't have to think so much and they could be able to play now. Now, when you do that in a dickelable defense and you take that away, yes, you're dumbing it down and you take away two or three other defenses that look the same as that one defense, but it's doing something totally different. And that's why when rookie quarterbacks see a Dick Le Bow defense, a true Dick Le Bow defense, they are talking about they're seeing ghosts. Why? Because you're looking at the same thing, the same lineup, the same look, and it's four different ways those people can come. But now you had to take that one out, so now it's no teeth to the other one because you didn't get the player that needed to play the position to do what was necessary. As an inside linebacker in our defense, you got to come downhill, bang a dude, and get off of him. As an outside linebacker, you have to dominate the tight end. The tight ends never block you one on one, and you have to be able to get out in coverage to a Clara Flat. You have to be able to go seam. Sometimes you got to run down with the number two. All that got taken away. So you see what I'm saying? Like, I see I have different parameter than you do, but. But I'm perspective and your perspective are two different things.

[Joe Hayden]

Dude, I feel you. I hear you, but I'm just telling you what I know from being the cornerback and getting coached up. It just. I feel like if the dude.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dude, if you. If you. If you. If you could have played in Dick LeBeau's system, I guarantee you your numbers would have jumped by three.

[Joe Hayden]

But the. The thing is, the cornerback is. It was easy, though, Deebo. I think I'm the thing is, there's nuances and stuff that we didn't get, but I don't think some people are just not smart enough to get defenses. Sometimes some things are a little bit confusing. I think my mind kind of works.

[James Debo Harrison]

But that's the big draw. It's easy. Even the offenses that are facing us, saying, oh, this is easy. We know what they're going to do. Why? Because you had to dumb it down so much? Because you're trying to make guys play now. Like, you have to have some complication to your defense. You have for sure. A lot of people, like he said, we playing chess, not checkers, right?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes. No.

[James Debo Harrison]

But guess what? We playing tic tac toe. Because everybody and their mama see it. And we go into a game like TJ just said this past game, we. We. We felt good about the week we went in. Everything was, you know, it was good. We felt prepared. And what happened?

[Joe Hayden]

The offense down their leg.

[James Debo Harrison]

They'Re. They're part of the preparation on the other side, right?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, man. So look, so this one's. This. This what I'm saying.

[James Debo Harrison]

So what.

[Joe Hayden]

What. What are you expecting? What are you expecting to happen?

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm. I'm expecting a great head coach to put people in position to get coaches that can actually. How many coaches did you learn anything from at the Steelers when you were there on your tenure?

[Joe Hayden]

I learned from you.

[James Debo Harrison]

Who gave you nuggets that made you a better player? Who gave you. Who increased your knowledge? Who increased your capabilities?

[Joe Hayden]

Coach Blake.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Coach Lake.

[James Debo Harrison]

Where's Coach Lake?

[Joe Hayden]

He was tired. He went to go see his son play out in la.

[James Debo Harrison]

So what happened after that?

[Joe Hayden]

No, then he got. Yeah, then it was. Then it was scrapped. He wasn't. He did not. He didn't help too much. Who's my third one?

[James Debo Harrison]

You can't remember? That's the problem.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, it was good, man. My third one was a good. We had a good DB coach. Telling you it was. I'm just. Brain fart good. Yeah, man. Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

But it was.

[Joe Hayden]

I promise you. Promise you one. But I only had one bad DB coach there.

[James Debo Harrison]

So good equates to a great coach hiring.

[Joe Hayden]

No, I. But I already told you.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm saying. You want to say great, great got to come with a lot of greatness.

[Joe Hayden]

I already told you, I believe I.

[James Debo Harrison]

I do believe he will get into the hall just because of the numbers. Do I believe he should be in there? No.

[Joe Hayden]

Wow. There's coaches that haven't.

[James Debo Harrison]

So the same reason. I don't believe I should be in there. My numbers aren't what they are. I said it multiple times. I've said that so many times, it's ridiculous. Even though we played in the defense where we dropped damn near 50% of the time. And anytime you got a pass rush, it may not be a pure rush, it could be a run. So you may get maybe 8 to 10 pure pass rushes in the game, if you're lucky. And that wasn't. That was if Coach LeBeau decided that, hey, we're not going to rush our outside guys. We need you guys to head up the tight end and just whoop his ass. Two Gapping and dominating the run game. And we'll pick everything else up with the corners coming in.

[Joe Hayden]

Now. You gonna get in there, though. You gonna get in that bit, Debo. That's for sure. I respectfully.

[James Debo Harrison]

Listen, I'm gonna tell you right now, you don't. You don't understand. You understand. I don't care. I'm not getting.

[Joe Hayden]

I ain't even.

[James Debo Harrison]

The only thing I ever cared about was making my daddy proud, bro, and I did that. I don't think they understand right now. Think about this. Think about this. AB should be first ballot hall of Fame.

[Joe Hayden]

A thousand percent. A thousand percent.

[James Debo Harrison]

You think you gonna get first ballot hall of Fame. You know, they get their chance to make that. To make that thing to where they can do whatever they want to do to. It is not numbers based. And that is why I'm telling you Tomlin will get in because I don't think he should get in because guys are saying the things he's going to get in for. Show. Yes.

[Joe Hayden]

He's going to get in for sure. Yeah, I can hear what you saying.

[James Debo Harrison]

You. Hey, just like it was his decision to leave or not, it's going to be the same thing. Mm. No question.

[Joe Hayden]

He gonna be able to do what he want, though.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

What's up?

[James Debo Harrison]

Hardball? Giants? The Browns ain't getting there, man.

[Joe Hayden]

It's all good. It's all good.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

It's all good.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, it's all good.

[James Debo Harrison]

Who. Who. Who you. Who you. Who you hope. Who you hoping for now, Joe, man.

[Joe Hayden]

Bruh, after that, after that. That one flustered me because I put all my eggs in one basket. I ain't gonna lie to you. So, yeah, right now I'm just waiting to see what. What they. What. Mr. Haslam, well, he's looking to come up with him and Mr. Barry, see what they looking for. So, you know, I'm just here. I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting. I'm just hoping and praying. I'm hoping something good happens. I'm gonna let them. I'm gonna let them do it. Cause you know what? No, let's. Because. What the. Because look, we heard about that. What does. What the Steelers gonna do though, with the coach? Cause like you said, hey man, you want a great coach? You want a great coach, obviously. And for 100 days, I'm gonna cross the seven continents. Because the answers to everything important are at the edges of our world. Pole to Pole with Will Smith from National Geographic, now streaming on Disney and Hulu.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[James Debo Harrison]

Stapleton's all American Roadshow. With special guests. Get tickets [e-mail] Chris Stapleton's All American Roadshow.

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[Joe Hayden]

All ain't been doing it for a long time. Only had three.

[James Debo Harrison]

This is the thing.

[Joe Hayden]

How much wiggle room are y'?

[Commercial Announcer]

All?

[Joe Hayden]

How much wiggle room are you giving the coach?

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm. I'm. I'm a hundred percent ready and no, we gonna be in the basement if we're trying to rebuild this and I think we need to rebuild this. I don't know if Steeler fans can handle that.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what I'm gonna say. That's what I don't care.

[James Debo Harrison]

If I'm the. If I'm the person making the decision, I don't care. This is what's going to have to happen. Just like it happened over there with the Patriots. Look where they're at right now. Look where they're at right now. You got to go to the basement to get back up. Unless you go give up everything that you have to find a quarterback that is out there right now and get him. We're going to be in the basement and this draft is not it. I don't know if the next draft is it. We're going to be in the basement to be able. We're going to have to be in the basement to be able to draft a draft. A quarterback that can be a franchise quarterback.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

We're going to be in a bit. We're going. I understand that. And we're going to have to draft far better than we have been doing the last 10, 15 years.

[Joe Hayden]

Yep.

[James Debo Harrison]

I think I'm ready for the. I'm. I'm ready to accept. Are you.

[Joe Hayden]

You ready?

[James Debo Harrison]

As long as we get a person that can get that done, I'm willing to accept. But I'm willing to accept because this.

[Joe Hayden]

What I'm saying, your coach, when I'm telling you being in the basement, do we need to see something? Because the Steelers, they ain't had to really be dealing with another different head coaches. So I'm saying how long are you giving him to look terrible in the basement? Because we're going to have Will Howard. We're still going to obviously try to play and see what's up. So you mean so you're telling me.

[James Debo Harrison]

So you're telling me that we could take Will Howard and put him in there. Let's, let's, let's stop all this. Aaron Rodgers saved this team. That, that is a great decision that Mike made By getting Aaron Rodgers. I will say that. I don't know why because without him we. What are you talking about?

[Joe Hayden]

It have been looking.

[James Debo Harrison]

No for sure it would have been his first losing season ever if Aaron Rodgers wasn't there. Look at the games he won. Look how he won them. Look how our defense played in him and look how we had to win him. You're telling me that this still would be a 107 team with Aaron Rodgers not there? Hell no.

[Joe Hayden]

No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we obviously are going to go need to get a quarterback if Will is going to be the one that's going to be playing. We need to get a vet obviously. Or if we lose, lose, we're going to get hopefully a high pick where we get Caleb Williams like the Bears did or Drake May for number three. You know what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

Like.

[Joe Hayden]

Like the Patriots did. So you obviously going to have to lose. But I'm saying with the coach wise giving them a little bit of leeway.

[James Debo Harrison]

Because I'm giving him leeway. I ain't find, I ain't signing. I like the five year deal.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm loving the way that the I'm. I'm loving though I think Robert, I mean Robert Kraft, the way that he did it with New England, he put Mayo in there for a year, fired him and then was still able to get what's my man right now that's at the Patriots. The, the one that we, that I wish we could get. But he's not going nowhere.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh no, he ain't leaving there.

[Joe Hayden]

He's from Tennessee. Yes, yes, yes. So we gotta get leaving there.

[James Debo Harrison]

It's crazy. Brable.

[Joe Hayden]

We gotta get a great coach. Bruh. That you saying that's gonna be able to bring offensive and defensive coordinators. Cause the Steelers is definitely. And I'm not.

[James Debo Harrison]

Listen, I'm not saying he has to be a great coach right now, but I need to have the potential of being able to grow into that. You seen something in him from year whatever it is to year whatever and he can grow on top of that. I want to know that he can put a staff in place. I want to know that he's not going to be somebody that feels like he can't put somebody at XYZ because it may Take attention away from him.

[Joe Hayden]

So let me tell you. All right, let me go. This was a question I really wanted to know. Since you talking about we're going to have to be trash for a little bit and everything, are we still saying with these same players, are you trying to. Are you trying to dump. Are you trying to get rid of contracts? Are you trying to look and see what's going on?

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm dumping for sure.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay. All right.

[James Debo Harrison]

I have to ask me.

[Joe Hayden]

Because that's what you're gonna have to do if we talk about.

[James Debo Harrison]

I have to.

[Joe Hayden]

Because it's bread out there and it's young and you can try to really go reset and re. If you really try and refigure it out, that's that then.

[James Debo Harrison]

I got it. I got you.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay. That's just the same.

[James Debo Harrison]

I mean, I hate to say it, but I'm. I'm getting rid of older, expensive talent. Okay?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm here.

[James Debo Harrison]

I have to. I gotta start younger. I got. I gotta start young because I. I need to be able. I need to be able to grow with this. I got to teach them. I got to bring them in. And. And to be honest, I don't just, as you know, I don't want to deal with the past, you know, of whatever they may expect from me because of what their dealings were with Tommy. So I'm cleaning. I'm cleaning house. I have to. I'm sorry, but I have to start off fresh. And I. And look at. Look at Rabel. Dude, he. He let go and signed so many people, I think it was like 20 something dudes in his first week, two weeks there before that. He went and got the coaches. He got the coaches. I need the coaches that I need. Like, he. He put together. He get. He get an all star coaching style. He got. He got that together. And I need guys to be there that when the players see him or. Or hear their name or. Or whatever that may be, it's automatic behind Lion. Yeah. My. My DB coach is Joe Hayden. Come on. Right?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm coaching. I'm coaching them up.

[James Debo Harrison]

I got. I got, you know, I got. My DB coach is blah, blah, blah that I brought up from the scouting department. And now he's my DB coach. Huh?

[Joe Hayden]

No accountability.

[James Debo Harrison]

No.

[Joe Hayden]

No credibility.

[James Debo Harrison]

None. So now when he tells, like you. You can't even relate the game to me. Like it's something that's not going on. That's not being translated when I'm seeing every corner, every db, except for a few when they get beat. First thing they do is look back. Ain't nobody grabbed like, stop.

[Joe Hayden]

That's when debug. We're gonna have that. That's. We gotta yank. We literally. It's eyes. It's straight eyes in the meeting room. We're doing it the whole time. And if you're doing that and practice, you're not going to get in the game. No, that's what you're gonna do. You're gonna do right.

[James Debo Harrison]

If you practice it, you're doing that.

[Joe Hayden]

Stop looking back crazy. I'm having dudes boxing gloves. I'm treating them like, like kids. Until you get that credibility to where. Okay, you showing me you know how to play. Okay, I might give you a little.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dude, everybody coward did dude, everybody coward. You earned what everything was.

[Joe Hayden]

Yep, yep.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't give a damn if he was a first rounder or a fifth rounder. You earned everything. And that's when it came time around that. Like I said that 13:14 time frame, bro. Guys were giving that. Hey, you my first rounder. You my. You my first rounder. Here, here, guys, go ahead, get out there. We go fix whatever it is we need to adjust so you can play.

[Joe Hayden]

Nah, see, I ain't gonna lie to you. Coming out of that Belichick, I had Eric Mangini and I was a first round pick and he did not give me nothing. I didn't start until game week six. I was special teams four phase guy. Working my ass, learning like and grinding, showing. I'm like this. I'm gonna show you that I deserve it. I get in that thing after the sixth game of the season, I never come back out. But you gotta just. You're not just Joe, you're Joe Hayden, first round pick. Here you go.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't care about that.

[Joe Hayden]

We don't care about none of that. Because unless you Sheldon Brown, Eric Wright. No, that's college.

[James Debo Harrison]

There's like, that's co. You did that in college. Yeah, you got to show me something here.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm with that.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm about to just hand this to you. They talking about the. The head coaching job for Pittsburgh. They got it ranked as the third. They got Ravens 1 Falcons too. You agree with that, man? You think Baltimore and Atlanta is more desirable than Pittsburgh?

[Joe Hayden]

I think only Baltimore or maybe only Baltimore right now. Just because they got Lamar.

[James Debo Harrison]

Just because they got real, real, real disrespectful right now.

[Joe Hayden]

Brother, brother, brother, brother, brother. In my opinion. I mean, look, we don't got no coach either. So I mean, we trying to.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's what it is for the head coaching job. Wouldn't you want to be able to come in there and say, I can bring up, I can pick my quarterback, I could do what I want to. And I'm not stuck saying that I need to have. You got to keep the OC because that is a defense or an offense that is ran totally different than what the regular offenses are ran in the NFL because you will have a quarterback that is a running back and a quarterback. Now you. You're cutting your, you're cutting yourself down to have to pick a backup that is, that is something like him or exactly like him. Man.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm. Look, I'm. Look, me. I'm not turning down. I mean, Lamar is still Lamar Jackson.

[James Debo Harrison]

And if you think I understand and.

[Joe Hayden]

If that's your type of offense that. You know what I'm saying, you are the type of offense that runs that. You are the type of head coach that likes the RPOs, that likes to do that. And you're a big defensive guy, too. So I think there could be a fit where that coach could be like, hey, I do have Lamar Jackson, but at the same time, I'm with you too, at Pittsburgh, where I can pick whatever quarterback I do want. We don't really have one there. Like, go talk to him. What, what, what leadership role. What, what ability do I have to bring in whoever I want?

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay, But I, I'm going. I'm still, I'm still, I'm still thinking the Steelers jobs. I'm going still at first I gotta, I gotta put in my. I gotta put in my, my request for interview and all that. So when I do, you know, when I do that and everything, I'll let you know how to, how the process goes.

[Joe Hayden]

Please do, bro. I'm trying to tell you, like I said.

[James Debo Harrison]

Listen, I'm gonna go. I'm. I'm gonna. I'm gonna make. Make. I'm going to make my job so easy, man. I'm going to hire the coldest position coaches and coordinators around. I want to make my job as easy as possible as a head coach. I do not care who gets the credit because at the end I'm gonna get the credit because I hired them and put it or show. Okay? You understand? I don't. Listen, I do not want teachers. I want parents, professors of the game. You understand what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm, I'm sorry. I'm not promoting from within. Let's go. Look, no. Unless you done showed me something, I'm.

[Joe Hayden]

Gonna Go pluck somebody from.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm go. I'm going to pluck them out the sky.

[Joe Hayden]

You come on over here.

[James Debo Harrison]

You come. Thank you.

[Joe Hayden]

You come on over here.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dude.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey, what you feel about a college. What do you think about a college. What about that college football coach, bro. No, I'm talking about Indiana, too.

[Commercial Announcer]

Indiana.

[James Debo Harrison]

Oh, yeah, Nice too.

[Joe Hayden]

He from PA and he from pa. Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, but you ain't gonna be able to get him to leave. He already said he ain't leaving in that, man. I sound like he a man of his word right now. He sounds like he's a person that has a conviction. Look, you know, he makes his players hold his players accountable.

[Joe Hayden]

I tell you one thing, and that's what I'm talking about. He's a. He look like he's. No, he's not. Bull. I like him.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, listen, we go give it a shot. This could be a, this could be one of those chances where we go ahead, talk to him, get. Hey, do what you got to do to get him to at least come on through, do an interview. You be at a form. Listen, you could be the next 25, 30 year coach here. I, I, I like what he doing over there in Indiana now.

[Joe Hayden]

I love what he doing over there.

[James Debo Harrison]

I like what he's doing over there. Like, hey, for. Hey, he came from the basement, too. He gonna make everybody enter. That's why he make them earn it. Yep, that's why he make them earn it. Look here, man, we got playoff game, too. We got the Bears over there with the Rams. The playoff game, bro. Hey, we got a video, man. Look at the blizzard conditions right now in Lake Michigan, baby.

[Joe Hayden]

See, that's what I'm telling you. I, I'm, I'm, I'm leaning Chicago.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey. Hey, boy. Hey, man.

[Joe Hayden]

My man Matthew Stafford hurt his little finger, too.

[James Debo Harrison]

It's gonna be cold.

[Joe Hayden]

His finger's gonna be tingling, bro.

[James Debo Harrison]

They are not, they are not looking good in cold weather. Dude, you talking about what they say? 0 to negative 10, wind chill, something like that.

[Joe Hayden]

Let me tell you, man, bro, that.

[James Debo Harrison]

Zero to negative 10, I'm 20 mile an hour gust. And they said the Rams ain't played a game below 50 all season. 1 in 8, 54 completion for Stafford, 1 and 8 record, 14 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, brother.

[Joe Hayden]

Dang. Yeah, man, that's why I look. And it's colder. It looks freezing out there. And my man hit his, his pointer finger of his throwing hand.

[James Debo Harrison]

It's gonna be, that might help him because this is gonna be numbness, man.

[Joe Hayden]

Debo, I'm not. You need all the sun you can get. I'm not rocking with that.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, man, what's the coldest weather game you ever played in? I know what mine is. I think it was against y', all, man.

[Joe Hayden]

I know I played in Cleveland at, like, negative three, bruh.

[James Debo Harrison]

It was the game. I want to say it was like 2008 or something in Cleveland, bro. It was like wind, hail, snow. Just freezing off the lake, bro. And everybody out there they talking about, man, it's so cold, man. It's cold. It's this, it's that, man. And I'm like, man, y' all shut up around here. I've been here. I live here, bro. This ain't nothing, man. Bruh, when I say I stepped out that tunnel and the tinglies, it felt like real life needles.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Sticking through my arm, bro. We had a. You get fined. Thousand dollars. You wear sleeves.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, wear sleeves, bro.

[James Debo Harrison]

If it wasn't for me talking so reckless and crazy, I almost turned around immediately and went back into the locker room.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, for sure. You had. No, no, you couldn't.

[James Debo Harrison]

You couldn't. I didn't. I couldn't, bruh. That is the only game we lost. We lost. You lost, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

And I did not give a fiddle, fattle. I wanted to get off that field because even at halftime, bro, you know how you get in there at halftime and when you're hot, you feel the heat coming off your body. I felt the ice rising. I felt cold like I was in a freezer from the coldness rising off my body.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, yeah, that's that. That's that. That's that weather. It's no joke. I don't. I can't stand the cold. So you just be out there, but you better get a three and out so I can get over to that heated bench, please.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dude, we. Listen, bro, we was going over there on timeouts, yo.

[Joe Hayden]

No, for sure.

[James Debo Harrison]

30 second timeouts, Joe. I ain't never did that day in my life, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm waiting, bro. I'm looking at Debo. I was doing that the whole time, waiting for. Looking at the ref, waiting for him to blow the whistle as soon as.

[James Debo Harrison]

You come out there. Hey, we got TV or not? We got tv. I ain't. I ain't about to leave this. We got TV or not? We rolling or we. What we got we this or that?

[Joe Hayden]

The man on the field with the gloves or not. Yeah, if you're on the field with the gloves, I'm on the sideline.

[James Debo Harrison]

Watch The Moore's gloves right there, Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Man, we got to get to this, man. It's 12:10, man. Oh, you know what time it is? Play a fave present. All right, Joe, you know how it work. You play it or you fade it. Now I got Josh Allen over here in Buffalo. I got any more on Russian. I already know that. He go do what he gotta do. He gonna scramble, get loose on that thing. He got Purdy, he go, he gonna throw a pick. That's just what he do, man. He a gunslinger. He, you know. And on top of that, like last week when the tight end didn't relate and come down on that route.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

I think he gonna have some issues with, you know where, where that may happen. Cj, I' ma say he gonna have more on rushing. The reason I say he's going to have rushing is I believe they probably told him, you cannot turn the ball over if you don't do anything else. Take off. Do not, do not, do not turn the ball over. I don't care if you get sacked. Do not throw the ball into a ill advised situation. That is the only way that they're going to have a chance to be able to beat New England in New England. Now in the other one, we just talked about that.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, that is obvious. Less, less, less.

[James Debo Harrison]

What you gonna do, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna play this. I'm gonna play this and I'm gonna just be watching because once, the first once my man, if C.J. strout, my good man gets over ten and a half. This joint is good as. We good as one.

[James Debo Harrison]

We good as one. Oh yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Watching this straw after that, man, is we good in the books?

[James Debo Harrison]

Listen, your boy Joe, go play with your boy done put out there. Let's make sure you guys download the app today and use the code Debo. Joe.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, sir.

[James Debo Harrison]

Dollars in lineups after you play your first five dollar lineup. All right, look here we got some super chats. We Got Kenneth Pile, 2079. He donated $5. He said, I say they need to hire Debo as head coach. What do you think of that, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I agree wholeheartedly.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Cause you want a job, right?

[Joe Hayden]

You know what? You don't. I know I. I would like the cornerback position.

[James Debo Harrison]

I got, you know, you in there.

[Joe Hayden]

And you know I'm gonn all the way up for sure. We're gonna be out there getting all the picks and then I know you gonna hire a offensive mind that we need to make sure our offense is Ran the proper way.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yes, yes, yes. What we got here? What is that? Because the runies don't. What. Let me see if it's on here. Stillson 14 donated $10. Said Tom got a chance to be in the great coach conversation because the rumors don't fire coaches. Any other owner, and he'd been gone by 2020. What do you think of that, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

I would say I think after they won it in 2008, went back to the Super bowl in 2010. I think the Steele just the fans you get. You get kind of. You want to be. You want to win every single year. I understand that. I can say 20, 20. He's. I think it's. I think it's right. Right about time. Could have been two years, could have been last year, maybe the year before. But right now, I think it's a grateful time for him to gracefully battle out like it is what it is. I think he did. He did it long enough at a. At a great pace where it's not great pace, but just, you know, you were making the playoffs, you were doing good, you won the Super Bowl. Brought you back to another one since 2010, so it's been a. A minute. So I think right now it's the time that it's. It's time.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. I personally, I don't know about 20, but I think it should have been done. I'm with you. I think it should have been a little. A little Sooner. We got Diamond 4, underscore one donated $5, said I like Brian Flores for head coach. Nate, what is that? Shieldhouse for OC Raheem Morris for dc Trinidad Chambliss or Taylor Green for To complete. To complete. To compete with Will for quarterback? I don't know. I mean, I like. I like Blind. I like. I like Flores, but I like him as a. As a coordinator, as D.C. yeah, I like him as a D.C.

[Joe Hayden]

I'M with you.

[James Debo Harrison]

Notice she's me as the head coach.

[Joe Hayden]

Yep.

[James Debo Harrison]

What do you think of Nate as the O.C. nate? Sure.

[Joe Hayden]

Where's Nate at?

[James Debo Harrison]

Who's Shield House? Shield House. It's shield. It says it's like shoe, but it's. It's 2e, so it's shield House. Where is he out of? I don't know. That's why I was asking.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know where neither. I don't know where no Shield House is either. Rams. Okay, okay, okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, look, you.

[Joe Hayden]

If. For offensive coordinator, I want. If you learn from McVeigh. Let's see what McVeigh I don't know.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't know. That. That. That. That.

[Joe Hayden]

Don't.

[James Debo Harrison]

That. Don't give me that instant.

[Joe Hayden]

It don't give you that instant eye. That's what we need.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. I need. I need. I need that instant. As soon as I hear the name, as soon as I think, like, I need that. And I just. You know, we got Mike and Mike donated. Mike and Mike Dash 100 donated. 10 bucks said. What's up, D1 Joe? Does the next Steeler coach last as long as Tomlin did, or do they have to step down a few seasons if they can get a ring after a few seasons, or do they have to step down after a few seasons if they can't get a ring? Hell, no. Listen, I'm trying to tell y', all, the next coach, if it's me, I'm giving you five years. Giving me. I'm giving you time to build up for the first three, and then after that, I gotta see grave improvements. That's what. That's what I got. That's what I'm gonna do.

[Joe Hayden]

At least I'm rocking with that. But ain't this what you don't. You need to see, like, a legitimate change. You know what I'm saying? Legitimate. Like, I need to see the culture change. And like, if I. I like the way that when the Patriots, they ended up getting rid of Belichick and then my man. What's my man name? Jared Mayo, he went out there for a year and they went 4 and 13, and he's like, they had Bell Belichick for 20 years, and he quickly was able Mayo because it just wasn't what he was with. And now able to hire the coach they have now brable. So it's like, I think the Steelers are going to have to do a really good job of really like this the guy that you're going to be with, because they don't really be having to pick the guy too many times. So it's hard to be able to find that guy.

[James Debo Harrison]

Well, yeah, you got to realize it ain't nobody. I don't think there's nobody in that organization right now that actually went through the process of finding Coach T or that was truly involved in it.

[Joe Hayden]

So that's the part where it's like, coaches aren't easy. When you find a man that you really kind of believe in, you got to kind of stick to him. So I'm respecting. I don't.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't know you. I. I think. I think that's a problem. That, that a lot of like coaches have, especially with their higher draft choices, they stick with them until it's too late. And they, they, they stick with them too long. So they'll just hold on to them knowing that after year two, that's not.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

What they want or need. But instead of letting him go, they're.

[Joe Hayden]

Holding on to him being like, look, they got to be able to say.

[James Debo Harrison]

Instead of saying, hey, I messed up, I messed up. Get out of here.

[Joe Hayden]

I messed up. Yes, yes, yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, a lot of guys, a lot of guys won't do that. I mean, some, some, some, some guys. Do you see guys getting up out of there, you see a first rounder that, you know, year after year two, he done went to man two, three other teams and for sure, you know. Yeah. So, I mean, but you got to be willing and ready to do that and admit fault and failure when that happens. I don't think we had that. I know we ain't had that. I mean, we held on to guys for, for longer than we, we should have. And we know that because we didn't re. Sign up to long term deals. We just held on to them because it was there and, you know, so on and so forth. So sal still is 36, donated two bucks, said, Debo, are you serious about D.C. no, I am not serious about D.C. he said, you got my vote. I'm serious about head coach. I ain't coming in there, I ain't coming in there on no bottom problem. I ain't coming in on side. I can't, I can't be on no side. I gotta be on. I gotta, I gotta be on top because I gotta put the people in place to make sure that everything flows smoothly. Your staff is gonna be automatic. Your staff has to be sitting there and buying into what it is you doing and everybody else is doing. We got to be speaking the same language.

[Joe Hayden]

I gotta be saying the same thing.

[James Debo Harrison]

Nobody can be saying something different. I know it was times where it was coaches where they were saying two different things about the same play. You can't have that.

[Joe Hayden]

You cannot have that. That is a, that is a recipe for failure.

[James Debo Harrison]

I did it this way or I think you should do it that way. It's the, I think you should do it this way ones that kill me because you ain't played the game. How you gonna tell me how to do it? You ain't even never went out here and did it. That's why I need a coach that played the position that I played and did it successfully. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

I think you should do it this way. It's crazy.

[James Debo Harrison]

Like, I. Dude, I just don't, I don't, I don't, I don't understand that, dude.

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, dude, we had about 12, 20. Coach.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Let's get up out of here. Hey, we want to thank you guys for joining us on this episode of Debo and Joe. Please make sure you like, subscribe and download where it's possible. This show, baby. Hey, Joe. Yes, sir.

[Joe Hayden]

Gotta say Joe, say I will see y' all on Monday on another episode of Debo and Joe.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey, we about to watch these games this weekend. We're gonna be right back on this thing on Monday, letting y' all know how it go. Y' all know how we break it down. You know what I'm saying? Y' all come, y' all come, y' all come to hear it. Y', all, you know, you know what it is. You know what it is. Hey, and we.

[Joe Hayden]

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