Deebo & Joe - Part 1: James Harrison reacts to Joey Porter Sr's Big Ben comments + Malik Willis to Steelers?

Summary

Club Shay Shay – Deebo & Joe, Part 1: James Harrison Reacts to Joey Porter Sr.'s Big Ben Comments + Malik Willis to Steelers?

Podcast: Club Shay Shay (iHeartPodcasts and Shay Shay Media)
Date: February 16, 2026
Host: James "Deebo" Harrison
Co-host: Joe Haden
Episode Focus: NFL locker room dynamics, “brotherhood” in the Steelers, deep dive into coaching and front office decisions, heated reactions to recent public comments from former Steelers and current events around Steelers’ coaching and quarterback situations.

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Episode Overview

This episode kicks off with Deebo (James Harrison) and Joe Haden candidly addressing controversial comments made by former Steeler Joey Porter Sr. about Ben Roethlisberger and the "brotherhood" fabric of the Pittsburgh Steelers organization. The conversation travels from the personal and professional nuances of player relationships and coaching legacies to current changes in the Steelers’ coaching staff and speculation on a possible quarterback move, notably around Malik Willis and the future of Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh.

The tone is raw, authentic, and often humorous—true to the hosts’ locker room chemistry—with some real talk about accountability, earning respect, and what it means to be a good teammate or coach in the NFL.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Addressing Joey Porter Sr.’s Comments about Ben Roethlisberger and “Brotherhood”

• [03:14 – 13:01]

  • Context: Joey Porter Sr. publicly criticized Ben Roethlisberger, claiming Ben was a “bad teammate” and broke the Steelers “brotherhood.” Porter also commented on James Harrison’s career, implying Mike Tomlin “gave” him achievements.

  • James Harrison’s Response:

    • “We have not minced words. If you heard us talk, you heard us conversation. If it was recorded, you would have thought it was on and popping. I hung up on my — all that, like, yeah, like brothers. … Brothers fight. Family feud.” ([03:14])
    • Read Porter's comments as implying Harrison’s career achievements were undeserved handouts from Tomlin. Harrison disputes this: “He didn’t make me the only undrafted player to ever win defensive player of the year and get paid $50 million. … I earned everything I was given, even the cuts.” ([05:20])
    • On the “brotherhood” accusation: “You broke the brotherhood, bro, more than we did. … For me, the way Joy and Ben, like, like, like we broke the brother. You broke the brotherhood, bro, more than we did. You didn’t even play under Mike.” ([09:33])

  • Joe Haden’s Perspective:

    • “Everybody has their own version to the story. … Dudes like you, Joey Porter, that are in the locker room … we know them a lot more than everybody else would think that we know them.” ([05:13], [16:11])
    • Adds that, yes, Ben was hard to deal with at times (“Ben can be an asshole…he knows he was an asshole certain times.” [16:11]), but high-profile veterans often get special treatment in the NFL.

  • Critical Quote:

    • Harrison on evaluating Tomlin:

      “He has done a great job with less talent, okay? But he has done a far less job with great talent since our last playoff win in 2016. … And the biggest thing for me, you ain’t got a coaching tree.” ([07:53])

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2. Evaluating Mike Tomlin’s Legacy and the Reality of NFL Locker Rooms

• [05:20 – 12:00]
  • Misses on Draft Picks: Harrison highlights how Tomlin missed on 12 of the last 14 first or second-round picks, which he believes contributed to the Steelers’ stalling out in the playoffs.
  • The Coaching Tree Argument: No significant coaching tree for Tomlin is, in Harrison’s view, an indictment of his lasting impact.
  • Personal vs. Professional:
    • “This is where the personal relationship gets involved with people, okay? You have a relationship, and it’s a good one. … You can look at the negative things and look past it, and you can focus on the positive things because you have a good relationship with him.” ([08:37])
  • Player Accountability:
    • Haden insists, “You can still be a great coach in your team. You can still underperform. That doesn’t mean … you weren’t in the right position. Players didn’t make those plays. ... I thought players could have definitely did better.” ([09:11])

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3. Inside Perspective: Evolution of Ben Roethlisberger

• [11:08 – 13:42]
  • Both hosts share nuanced, honest reflections on Ben’s growth as both a person and player:
    • Harrison: “When Ben came in, this man went 13:1 as a rookie. … That’s gonna stroke my ego and give me delusions of grandeur. But over time, he has matured and grown up, and you don’t value the same things you did at 23 that you do at 30.” ([11:30])
    • Haden: “When you first come in the league, when you’re 21 years old, you’re completely different than when you are. By the time I got there ... you grow, you do certain things.” ([13:01])

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4. “Family Business,” Veteran Privilege, and Locker Room Dynamics

• [15:41 – 23:25]
  • Reality: Not all players get along—sometimes chemistry, sometimes tension.
  • Acknowledgment of Vets Getting Preferential Treatment (with a cautionary note if extended to underqualified young players):
    • Haden: “Everybody gets treated fairly, but you don’t get treated the same. ... The vets is getting treated like that because they’re going to ball. ... When you’re doing that to the younger players, that’s not your [team], your team could be looking weak.” ([18:48]–[22:13])
  • Debate: Is it “airing family business” when Ben publicly critiques the team, or is it just open (and overdue) dialogue about team direction?

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5. Steelers’ Expanding Coaching Staff – Good or Bad Trend?

• [24:22 – 28:29]
  • Steelers assembling the largest coaching staff in team history. Is more always better?
  • Harrison: “What did I tell you I was gonna do when I became head coach? … I was gonna personally make sure I got the best people for each position. ... So that could free me up to do more management.” ([27:13])
  • Haden: “I just need to make sure they’re on the same page, teaching the same mission, speaking the same language … If we go from the top down and we’re all speaking the same language … then I’m not mad at a lot of coaches.” ([25:11])
  • Consensus: More coaches can be good, but only if there’s unity, communication, and consistency. “Long as they’re on the same page, on the same wavelength ... I’m not mad at it.” ([26:09])
  • Laughter over “Team Chrome Dome”—the all-bald coaching staff at Tennessee Titans (see Memorable Moments).

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6. Quarterback Talk: Malik Willis, Aaron Rodgers, and Will Howard

• [32:37 – 40:58]
  • Looming QB change in Pittsburgh: Should the Steelers sign Malik Willis? What about Aaron Rodgers’ future?
  • Harrison repeatedly touts Malik Willis: “What did I send you, Joe? … Malik. Malik Willis.” ([32:43])
  • Haden’s scenario:
    • “I’m not mad at Malik. … Can we get him a 2 for 40? 20 guaranteed just for a trial year. … If he does good, we can keep him at the 20 for the next year.” ([32:55])
    • Later laughs at how this is likely lowballing Willis (“I shouldn’t even say that out loud. Yeah, don’t take the two for 40.” [39:03])
  • Harrison on franchise QBs: “I don’t see him going for less than 30 [million]. I don’t see him going for more than 40 years, though.” ([39:44])
  • Both caution the grass might not be greener; want to see Will Howard get real playing time before writing him off.

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7. Memorable "Bald Head Staff" Moment

• [41:18 – 43:33]
  • Joe teases Deebo that his “perfect staff” is the bald-headed Tennessee Titans, calling it “Team Chrome Dome.” Jokes fly about Deebo fitting right in as linebackers coach amid all the baldness.
    • “Take your hat off, Deebo, and put your … head right next to the coach. Right there.”
    • “No disrespect to the bald heads, everybody. … But I still got hair and you don’t. And neither do the coaches for the Titans. And you are going to fit perfectly as their linebackers coach.”
    • Harrison: “Hey, give your boy a call. Y’all need a strength and conditioning coach, baby. Bald head, bald head.”
  • Lighthearted, self-deprecating humor returns the show to levity after the intense discussion.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Steeler Brotherhood

  • “Brothers fight. Family feud.” – James Harrison ([03:39])

• On Earning His Place

  • “I earned everything I was given, even the cuts.” – James Harrison ([05:20])

• On Tomlin’s Drafting Record

  • “He done missed on 12 or 14 of them [top picks]. He has done a great job with less talent, but … a far less job with great talent since our last playoff win in 2016.” – James Harrison ([07:53])

• On Veteran Privileges

  • “Everybody gets treated fairly, but you don’t get treated the same. And that’s just something. That’s just the way that it is.” – Joe Haden ([18:48])

• On Roethlisberger’s Character

  • “Ben can be an asshole ... and he knows he was an asshole certain times.” – Joe Haden ([16:11])

• On Coaching Staff Unity

  • “I’m not mad at a lot of coaches, but I need to make sure we have a lot of people doing the right things, speaking the right languages to the right people.” – Joe Haden ([26:09])

• On QB Negotiations

  • “I don’t see him going for less than 30 [million]. I don’t see him going for more than 40 years, though.” – James Harrison ([39:44])

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Important Timestamps

• Addressing Joey Porter’s comments and “brotherhood”: [03:11 – 13:01]
• Coaching staff legacy & Tomlin critique: [05:20 – 12:00]
• Ben Roethlisberger’s evolution: [11:08 – 13:42]
• Locker room treatment, vet privilege, accountability: [15:41 – 23:25]
• Steelers’ coaching staff growth debate: [24:22 – 28:29]
• Quarterback situation and Malik Willis talk: [32:37 – 40:58]
• Team Chrome Dome (Titans bald staff joke): [41:18 – 43:33]

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Final Takeaways

• The episode is packed with blunt, real talk about the inner workings of NFL locker rooms, leadership, and how respect and communication form or fray the “brotherhood” of a team.
• Harrison and Haden don’t hold back in analyzing the Steelers’ past and present, openly debating Tomlin’s strengths and flaws, and what it means for the team’s future—especially at quarterback.
• The chemistry between the hosts brings both gravity and plenty of laughs, with segments like the “Team Chrome Dome” sequence proving why this show stands out in NFL podcasting.

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For those who haven’t listened: This episode is a must for fans of unfiltered NFL conversations and unique behind-the-scenes dynamics—especially Steelers loyalists or anyone interested in the ever-mysterious balance of talent, leadership, and ego in pro football.

Transcript

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Watch the latest episode now exclusively on rarewelldone.com. Welcome back to this episode of Deebo and Joe. I'm your host James Debo Harrison. I'm here with my co host Joe Hayden. Please make sure you guys like subscribe and download where you get your podcast. Joe episode 70 and 70,000 followers as of today. Brother, how are you doing?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm doing great. We got to know. This is the 70th episode 70k you know and It's a great day. It's a great day, Deebo. Proud to be on the show. Proud to be on this good Monday. It's been a long time since we've been popped off. Since. It felt like forever, didn't it? Since Tuesday. It had a long time.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. It felt like a minute. So, you know, we gotta get into.

[Joe Hayden]

You know, a lot has happened. A lot has happened.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah. Yeah, we gotta get into what Joy. Joy Porter senior said first. I want to say this, though, okay? I want to say me and Joy have talked at length about this. We have not minced words. If you heard us talk, you heard us conversation. If it was recorded, you would have thought it was on and popping. I hung up on my. All that, like, yeah, like brothers. They. Brothers fight. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Brothers fight.

[James Debo Harrison]

Family feud. Now, I'm sure you heard the comments, but for y', all, that didn't. Here's. Here's what he said. Well, he broke the brotherhood, then Seven definitely broke the brotherhood because, like, that's the one. I don't understand the shit that 7 dude that did that we don't talk about. I know is crazy. Like. Like, out of anybody should talk. He should never grab a microphone and really talk Steeler business. Yeah. Because if we talk and steal her business, his ass is foul of all foul. Like, the shit that he's did is foul of all foul. He's not a good teammate. Won the Super Bowl, Woody. But the person. He's just not a good teammate. Like, he knows that. Anybody in the Steeler building knows that. But we protected him because I've only won one super bowl, and that was my quarterback. So do I love my quarterback?

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah.

[James Debo Harrison]

But is he a good person? No. Yeah. Y'. All. They. They didn't play the. The part that. That he said about me. I don't know why y'. All didn't. You need to. You need to get that in there. But what he said was.

[Joe Hayden]

What he said.

[James Debo Harrison]

He. He basically. He basically had said that we told our version of our story in Pittsburgh, Okay? And now when you read in between the lines on that, you would imply that our version means, like, you know, it's a lie, because people reading between lines. Would you imply that if I said that's your version?

[Joe Hayden]

I mean. No. I mean, every. Everybody has their own version to the story. I want. You know, I mean, different parts.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay? So when it comes down to this, that's my version. Dance version, whatever it may be. This is his version, okay? He believes Mike Tomlin is a great coach and the Reasons that he gave behind that was that he said I should be more loyal to him because my name debo. I had three, four Pro Bowls, defensive player, I played in two championships. He paid me 50 million, changed my life. Howard cut me three times and he feels like I took a shot at him and I broke the brotherhood. Okay? So when you say these things, Joe, it implies that he gave me it, right? Like he gave me this first. He didn't. He didn't give me the name Debo. Brett Keel gave me the name Debo. Okay? He didn't give me Pro Bowls. He didn't make me the only undrafted player to ever win defensive player of the year and get paid $50 million. Okay? Again implying that it was given to me undeservingly. Okay? It wasn't. Kyra cut me three times. Hell, I would have cut me. Did you see my football life? Like I would have cut me? I earned everything I was given, even the cuts. Now he says Mike Tomlin is great. I say he's a good coach, dude. And here's my reasoning. Again, dude, it's not personal. Although I do have a personal issue with him. Yes, he got two super bowl appearances, he has a win. He is the only coach in what, 20 years to go without having to losing season. And as my brother Ryan Clark said, he has done more with less, but he has to also be responsible for acquiring that less. Okay? And I believe that comes because he has missed on his first and second round draft choices over the last 10 years. He has only signed two guys to Long term deals when that time came for renewal. Now, your ones and twos are supposed to be the easiest picks that you get, right? He done missed on 12 or 14 of them. Okay? He has done a great job with less talent, okay? But he has done a far less job with great talent since our last playoff win in 2016. In 2017, he had a number one and a number five defense and was bounced out in the first playoff game by Jacksonville 42 to 45. 2018, fourth ranked offense with a six ranked defense. Didn't even make the playoffs. Didn't make the playoffs in 2019 with a fifth ranked defense. 2020, y' all lost to the Cleveland Browns with a third ranked defense, 37 to 48. Okay? And the biggest thing for me, you ain't got a coaching tree. The coaching tree is the greatest indicator of your strength in teaching and the ability to develop other coaches under your leadership. And no coach in NFL history that has a tenure this long would be able or has been able to do that without having a tree but him. Okay, okay. Now this is where the personal relationship gets involved with people, okay? You have a relationship, and it's a good one. So you can look at the negative things and look past it and you can focus on the positive things because you have a good relationship with him. Joe. Yeah. You have guys that say he's a great coach and haven't even had a playoff win under him. Hell, you one of those dudes. You say you're a great coach. You ain't won the playoff game under him.

[Joe Hayden]

At the same time, you can still be a great coach in your team. You can still underperform. That doesn't mean that the coaching. You weren't in the right position. Players didn't make those plays. It wasn't like we were ill prepared. So I feel like it wasn't that the coach did. We got to make plays on these things. Sometimes it comes on.

[James Debo Harrison]

So for 10 years straight, almost.

[Joe Hayden]

No, I mean, I'm just saying for my. For my time when I was there, I thought players could have definitely did better.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay? And then something. Go ahead. And something else was that he said, ben and I broke the brotherhood first. Mike ain't my brother. They my brothers, okay? I came back in 2014. It wasn't for him. It was for Brett Kiesel, who called me four o' clock in the morning, bro. It was for Ike Taylor, who called me fresh out of surgery, Troy Palomalu, not Mike, because he had already crossed me at the beginning of that year, bro. But for me, the way Joy and Ben, like, like, like we broke the brother. You broke the brotherhood, bro, more than we did. You didn't even play under Mike. You won a championship with me. And you said it yourself. But, like, as me and Joy talked and like I said, we talked that I hung up on my boy. Joy was like, well, what's real? I said, listen, Joy, I said, it ain't no fun when the rabbit got the gun, okay? And right there, Joy has a personal issue with Ben, and he was the rabbit with the gun. He took his shot because he doesn't see Ben. And as a brother, okay? And me personally, I do not think Ben is a bad teammate, okay? Because I have a good relationship with Ben, you know, And I can say this because I talk to men like, this is not. It's not. It's not gonna be news to him, okay? But seven, seven, seven could be an. That's facts, okay?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Okay. And when Ben came in, this man went 13:1 as a rookie. Okay. Starter. The team was 15:1. His second season, he won a Super Bowl. The youngest quarterback to ever do it. 23. And that's when Seven was born. Okay. He became the youngest quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl.

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[James Debo Harrison]

That's gonna stroke my ego and give me delusions of grandeur. But over time, he has matured and grown up, and you don't value the same things you did at 23 that you do at 30. Hell, I'm a different person at 47 than I was at 45, and I'm a far, you know, worse person at 40 than I was at 45. So with that being said, man, yes, it's things that you see in the locker room. You heard in the locker room. But it was never something that we had had an issue with that we couldn't correct with each other. So the relationship with Ben, you know what I'm saying, is still intact for me. And right now, we are far better, greater friends, brothers now than we ever were in the past, and that continues to grow. Okay. Yeah, peasy. That was just a pure out attack on Ben's character. And what I said about Mike was an attack on his coaching dude. Okay? Two different things. And that's more breaking the brotherhood than what Ben said. Ben said, I think I feel that maybe Tomlin should move on. Like, come on, bro. That's what he said. I went way harder than that. But he went on it because he obviously has a personal issue with Ben that hasn't been resolved.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes. So let me get in here. Let me get in here. I actually spoke with both two. I spoke to Big Ben, and this morning when I was on the phone with him, he was like this. Are you and Deebo together? Because he's calling me right now. So I'm like, no, we're not together. We got a show coming up in a minute. So I talked to Ben. Have a good relationship with Ben. So first I'm gonna get on. I'm get on the Ben subject. Like you said, Debo, Big Ben has been in the league for a very, very long time. Do you know what I'm saying? So like you said, when you first come in the league, when you're 21 years old, you're completely different than when you are. By the time I got there, I got there. When it was 10 years in, Ben and Keek said, at the same time, you grow, you do certain things.

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[James Debo Harrison]

So he's saying it's cause of Tomlin. Tomlin came in and he headed over all day. The good thing Tomlin did was keep that defensive staff intact. He kept my linebacker coach, who is the person who will work with me day in and day out. He kept Dick LeBeau, whose defense is still one of the greatest defenses, as long as it's played his way. Okay. That is what I'm, I'm giving the credit to. He's saying, well, without him that would not have happened. I understand what he's saying I see his reasoning, but again we gonna have to agree to disagree.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, I can respect it. We can respect it. And I talk to PZ too. And like you said, you can say that and you can. That's how you feel. You're correct to feel that way. But the PZ at the same time is when he's saying everything. When you're in that locker room and at the same time with what Ben's been through. And when I got to that locker room, Debo too. It is a people you get treated a certain type of way. Ben, Pouncey, myself, Cam, you know what I'm saying? It is a vets get to move around a certain type of way. And if you don't like that or if you rubs you the wrong way, then people like everybody gets treated nobody. You get treated fairly, but you don't get treated the same. And that's just something. That's just the way that it is. So I could even say like literally that's the way things move. So when Ben speaks on that about leniency with younger dudes that don't really have that aura to be able to be. Nah, you supposed to be working harder. Like you don't have that willing to be like. No, we don't.

[James Debo Harrison]

What you want to say is there's a lot of self anointing here.

[Joe Hayden]

It's a lot of self annoying. That's what I'm saying here.

[James Debo Harrison]

You're my one, you're my two. I like you here. That's what it is. And that's what was going on.

[Joe Hayden]

But that's what I'm saying where when you're in the league for a long time and when it's vets, when it's you that's doing that, when it's Joey Porter that's doing that at first and Ben, he's a young dude that's still like he might be he winning championships as a young dude, growing, doing things that he would regret, would take back when I met Ben now he's been nothing but nice to me because he's matured, he's married, he has his kids, he's in his faith. Like that wasn't the same Ben back in 2006, you know what I'm saying? So I give him all the rights so people can. When Joey was there back in 2006, when he was going outside, when Ben was probably doing the same things Joey was doing, getting in fights, his stuff was outside. Everybody knew what Joey was doing, but Ben was doing Things it was tough. Everybody's protecting him. Nobody's gonna say nothing on it. So peezy. At the same time, he can understand. Like we could have been acting like just like trying to bash you. There's things that happen in your past, in the times that we've been there. We know we have a long relationship. I played with you and I was a coach and I saw in the meeting room what you. You ain't have to show up for certain practices. But it's love. Cause you're Ben. You know what I'm saying? So there's just things that happen like that that is in the code of like me not gonna say nothing. But then I can respect with Ben when I come in there and you got vets moving around smooth and then you got younger dudes. It's a little lenient in there where no, they don't deserve no extra. That's how you can get like cracks little people don't know what's going on because you treating younger dudes that don't deserve to be like vets. Like vets. And that's what kind of your locker room loses like, you know what I'm saying? What it's really about. It's about the vest is getting treated like that because they're going to ball. They're not going to miss any assignments. They're going to know exactly what to do. They're going to be in their place. They got kids, they got family. So they got. They moving in a certain way. When you're doing that to the younger players, that's not your. That's. That's not your team could be looking weak. So I could see where I think that's what the shot. But then Joey Porter is like bamboo. That's your coach. Coach Tom has been protecting you had your back all this whole time. You don't be the one to tell him he gotta leave and like that stuff. He just wouldn't want like you putting out family business when same time, whole time. That whole.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's not putting out family business. Everybody see that from the streets, bro. You want him to go on this podcast and say something? No, no, no, no, no.

[Joe Hayden]

I'm just telling you. I feel you. I'm with that. That's why I'm saying. With what Ben's saying. For me, coming from the outside looking in, that's what I would have said. Like you can see the leniency part. I think that if just a little like the vets, dudes that don't deserve to be treated as vets being treated like vets, I could say that that little wiggle room was too much. It was too much. Little blase. You got to be on it. You know what I'm saying? The dudes like Pouncey deserves to have that because he's going to come. He knows everything you got to do off Wednesday practices. These younger dudes know every. All the reps know exactly what you got to do. Extra reps, you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't. You haven't put in the time to earn that. So seeing it that way, that's why I think Ben did it. And I think he was right to say that. And I think Joey saying that the family business, like, just Ben, you shouldn't be the one to say that because every. All the stuff that you've been protected from, but still, it's. I mean, like you said, it is what it is. Like from outside looking at. If you could see that. You think the leniency is what's going on. Ben, he's gonna be on this podcast asking questions. I think, you know what I'm saying? It might be the time. It's a little lean in there. I think we passed.

[James Debo Harrison]

Like I said, I understand what you're saying, but like, you know, when it. When it comes down to it, I think again, it's a personal issue. We. It wasn't. It wasn't about play. And to be honest, like, that was something that happened, what, at the. The Super Bowl? And then, you know, they splice and cut it up and send it out. Like, I mean, that's something that could have been just. I think it could have been squashed before it even got, you know, it even got put out. Like. Like, especially with, you know, with things going on as they have been going on. Like, why even. You know, why even. Why even put it out there?

[Joe Hayden]

But like I said, the one good thing is too, though, that I like you. Like you say, you talk to Peezy, you talk to Ben, I talk to Ben, I talk to pz, everybody you're able to at the end of the day, too. They like, I know Peasy don't want it to keep going. They said their pieces. You know what I'm saying? Everybody getting their stuff out.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, we got each other's numbers for. For me talking to. To both. Now both parties have a full understanding of what the issue is. I will say that. And that's something that could be communicated between them. I'll leave that where it's at. This is gonna be the last time I'm gonna address this, you know, we gonna move on to. To current coaches and current players and, and keep it moving from there. Joe. Yes, sir. So what we got now is the largest coaching staff that distillers have had maybe in history. They said, okay, how do you. How do you. Joe, how did you feel about the totality of our coaching staff? And do you. You like it? You think it's a good thing or bad thing? That it's. It's more.

[Joe Hayden]

You can have a lot of good coaches and you can have a lot of bad coaches. I want to have a lot of good coaches. You can have a lot of people doing the wrong damn thing and it won't matter. So I just wanted to make sure that we got all of these right people. It's not wrong. I'm glad that we have a lot of coaches out, honestly. I just need to make sure they're on the same page, teaching the same mission, speaking the same language. There's no miscommunications. I need to make sure the coaching staff is on the same vibe because you can't be in the coaching staff and come out of that meeting with you guys as coaches and. And then try to divert to the players. The D line coach, the linebackers coach, and you be speaking in different languages. And now we're all not on the same page. So I'm just saying if we go from the top down and we're all speaking the same language, we all, the linebackers, the D line, the safeties, and we're teaching good coaching like we're coaching these dudes up. Eye in the sky, don't lie. You know what I'm saying? We're really watching the tent. We're really watching the tape. The first step, hand placement.

[James Debo Harrison]

We.

[Joe Hayden]

We're to the fundamentals because that's really what gets it done. All this athletic. We're gonna get the job done for sure. But everybody knowing these checks, when motions are called, when we're in meetings, meetings aren't quiet. There's nobody. Just not communication. When somebody moves. Check, check, check. You're always talking, you're communicating. It sounds like we know what's going on. So for me, I like, I'm not mad at a lot of coaches, but I need to make sure we have a lot of people to doing the right things, speaking the right languages to the right people. So long as they're on the same page, on the same wavelength, and teaching them and coaching them up the right way. I'm not mad at it because you can now assort you can divvy things out. You got people to like. Nah, we need to cut up on.

[James Debo Harrison]

Good thing or bad thing.

[Joe Hayden]

Joe, what'd you say?

[James Debo Harrison]

Good thing or bad thing? I want you to pick one.

[Joe Hayden]

Good thing. Good thing. I say good thing. I say good thing.

[James Debo Harrison]

Listen, now listen, Joe, what did I tell you I was gonna do when I became head coach? What I tell you I was gonna do? I said I was gonna be less hands on head coach that you ever saw in the history. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

I was go personally make sure I got the best people for each position. Okay. So that could free me up to do more management.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

It was trying to micromanage. Okay.

[Joe Hayden]

I love that. I like that.

[James Debo Harrison]

I love that Mike McCarthy is doing this because it shows no ego. Okay. I don't have, I don't have a desire to be the smartest person in the room or believe that I'm the smartest person in the room and I understand that if I am the smartest person in the room or believe that I have nowhere to grow. I had no more to learn. And with him doing that, he's giving other people input and opportunity to help as a group. Maybe come together with something that A has thought about that B didn't think about, but C did and it, it mingles together and it gives him a different view opinion. That could be something that's a combination put together from different views. I love this. I believe it's, it's a great approach. Like I told you, I would be sitting there doing nothing but watching over top and putting everybody in position that I know can get my guys to buy into it. Joe Hayden, he's going to be my corners. Okay?

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

Like I said, I'm going to have, I'm going to have. Speaking of linebacker, coach Spence S2, S2, S2 got him a job over there. He got, he got him, he got him a. What was the outside. Inside linebacker.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

[James Debo Harrison]

Got him a job over there and what was it? The Chargers. He got one with the Chargers at the inside linebacker. Coach, come on now what we, what we talking about, that is what I like to see how you do that. You get a guy that done did it, he done played a little bit. He understand it. You know what I'm saying? You can, you can, you can get some buy in with that. I'm not saying he was this great extravagant player, but he got, he got, he got some success under his belt. He got success. You know, I I like it. I love it. Joe. And when it comes down to it, they actually say, hey Aaron, you got a deadline now, man. Yeah. Hey, you gotta let us know something about the combine. Joe. You what You.

[Joe Hayden]

I love that.

[James Debo Harrison]

Do you want to see him back? Do you not want to see him back? Do how you want to do it? Because they ain't about to let Running.

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[James Debo Harrison]

Drag it out like you did last year. They gonna say, hey, you tell us something. If you don't tell us nothing, I guess we go, just move on.

[Joe Hayden]

They're gonna have to.

[James Debo Harrison]

What did I send you? What did I send you? When I soon as I saw the free agents. What did I send you, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

You sending me Malik? You sending me Malik? You send me Malik? You send me Malik?

[James Debo Harrison]

Malik. Malik Willis. Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Hey.

[James Debo Harrison]

Hey. What you think, Joe?

[Joe Hayden]

So no disrespect to a rod, but I'm telling you it's a new new staff, new everything coming around. My only thing is what we gon pay him, which we gonna pay Malik. I'm not mad at Malik. I'm not mad at. We give him a 2 for 40. Can we get him for a 2 for 40? Can we get him a 2 for 4020 guarantee just for a tri year. And then we got him seeing what he Then we gonna see what he could do. It's a competition. It's not gonna be a competition then between him and Will Howard. Because if we don't get him, I'm liking Will and we gotta bring in somebody that just for competition. But if we do get malik, I like 2 for 40 for show just to see what's up. 20 million. If he could. If we can get him for that solid 20 million guaranteed, we got him for the one year, 20. If he does good, we can keep him at the 20 for the next year. We got him under contract and then he's definitely grossly underpaid because you know.

[James Debo Harrison]

These quarterbacks, you ain't gonna get that. You gonna have to put some type of tail on that.

[Joe Hayden]

I know for sure. I mean, look, two for. I'm just letting you know what I could. What what I could do. I can give him 2 for 40 right now for sure. And I don't think David Miguel is taking that though.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm with you. I like it. I like it on a prove it deal. But my thing is this.

[Joe Hayden]

Yes.

[James Debo Harrison]

If I knew what Will Howard could do, I would feel either. I would feel one way or another about it stronger versus you know, the other. If we're going to do like, you know what the league dude, he got in game high pressure competition in the playoffs and he did well and he did well and I don't know what type of system Green Bay running over there compared to what Mike McCarthy did and so on and so forth. But if it's anywhere close, you got a dude that was over there doing it like, come on, we gotta move on. We gotta move on from Aaron. We definitely like, like they said, it's a Band Aid. It's a Band Aid.

[Joe Hayden]

Like it's a Band Aid. A Band Aid.

[James Debo Harrison]

A Band Aid on it. Like we gotta, we gotta sink a.

[Joe Hayden]

Swim and we gotta see. We gotta give. And everybody keeps saying, oh no, Will Howard, we don't give him a chance. We drafted him. We keep, we let Mason, we. Mason's out there. We know what's up. Give Will Howard a chance. Let's see what at least what we got. And then if we do take Malik, he's gonna be in a little two year deal. And if Will Howard doesn't do what he has to do, we, we're eventually we have money to put other places and then we know we're going to have to get a quarterback. We may not be that good maybe and then we'll just be a quarterback out and if we're not good then we can get drafted high and go get a high draft pick. So I mean don't do it with I mean a rod. No, we just, we're on to the new. I like Malik for a little short term. Two for. I don't know if he's going to take the 20 mil but if he does take the 20 for the 1, you know, 2 for 40. If not, put Will in there. Let's see what he can do. He's a big body. I saw him at Ohio State. Everybody keeps saying, no I don't, man. Give the man a chance. Give him a line, give him a run game. Don't make him do everything. Give him the Sam Darnold offense.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, but I'm just trying to figure out why we didn't see him. I know he was hurt, but like, like how like all year like we put in who was it? Rudolph. Yeah. And we Ain't. You ain't even giving him a chance. Like, I don't. I don't know that that makes me. That makes me a little. A little nervous, man. Like, and with the fact that you're still entertaining. Sorry. Entertaining, you know, Aaron about what he's going to do makes me think that they may know or have a, you know, idea of what it is or he. He can't do.

[Joe Hayden]

It's who you're familiar with. You know, Coach T was familiar with Mason McCarthy still going to entertain a Rod because he coached him for. For a long time. They won the super bowl together. If you already there, I'm coming in and, like, you thinking about it, like, I'm not. I'm gonna entertain you. I'm see what's up. I'm gonna give you a deadline, though. You know what I'm saying? I'm not gonna let you play with me too long.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, you got to.

[Joe Hayden]

You know what I'm saying?

[James Debo Harrison]

You got to.

[Joe Hayden]

You're not just going to disrespect. That'd be disrespectful if he came in there and Mike McCarthy was like, all right, a rod. Get out of here. And we be like, dang, like, he wasn't rocking with bro for real. So at least he gave him a little time. We didn't give him no deadline. We was waiting. We was sitting there training. Where is a Rod? At least we got a timeline now.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, Listen, listen, I'm. I'm with signing you. I ain't gonna lie to you.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

I just don't know.

[Joe Hayden]

Sign them, then.

[James Debo Harrison]

I'm with signing. If we got. I don't know, something that triggers something else. If he starts. I don't know. I. We got to figure something out, like, to. To where we can. We can get him if it works and still, you know, make it something that's. That's going to be attractive to him, you know, as comparison to what he may be able to get out there, you know, free bro. Yeah, like, he's. He's free. Free. That's a hard. That's a hard thing to, you know, turn past, you know, getting more money here or there, you know, especially.

[Joe Hayden]

It's his first time at the. At the. At the bucket, too. And this year he looking good. He gonna max out. We're gonna have to spend that coin if we wanna.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like, how max out is max out, though? What you.

[Joe Hayden]

That's what I'm saying.

[James Debo Harrison]

You know, how max out Is max out. I'm gonna have to figure that one out, though. I'm gonna figure that one out, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

I don't know if the third. Yeah, 30, because the top quarterbacks are making 6, 50 to 60 million dollars. Are we gonna do a 30 ball? Because I'm not. 2 for 40 is just, just. That's crazy. I'm stealing from that young man. I shouldn't even say that out loud. Yeah, don't take the two for 40. If I was.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, I say if.

[Joe Hayden]

Bad advice.

[James Debo Harrison]

Who? I mean, you gotta. You got. Like I said, you gotta go somewhere around. Around that three zero. You gotta go somewhere around the three zero if you really want to have a shot and then figure out how to fandangle it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[Joe Hayden]

To get it to Asians looking for 50. Gotta be at least. Who is the agent. I know. You gotta be looking for.

[James Debo Harrison]

I know, man. Listen. Agent looking for all he can get. That. That don't. That, that don't.

[Joe Hayden]

What you think you're gonna end up signing for that if he makes the free agency? What you think gonna.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't see him going for less than 30.

[Joe Hayden]

Less than 30. Okay.

[James Debo Harrison]

I don't see him going for more than 40 years, though.

[Joe Hayden]

Okay?

[James Debo Harrison]

So.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, okay, so two for 80.

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[James Debo Harrison]

Like, he got. He got some, you know, he. He got hurt a little bit, you know, got a little beat up there. So I don't know, you know how. How healthy he is right now. I don't know, man. I just. I like. I like having the idea of having having a young guy in there that at least we've seen in, you know, real competition, in the stiffest competition at that time, which is playoff time. So that's something I like, bro. If I gotta spend it, like, let me. Let me. Let me. Let me go on here with him. I mean, if I don't have to. I just. If the will, man. The will thing. The Will Howard thing, I just haven't. Does anybody have any idea?

[Joe Hayden]

I'm gonna let him go get a man a shot. He's a big body, and I saw him. I mean, he was throwing that thing to Jeremiah. Sm. I will never forget. That was him. So he could throw the fade ball. Big body. We got a coach in here. You know what I'm saying? Like, mechanics look good. What do we. You got to show me that he can't do it. Give him. Give him a shot. Literally, like, he's not small.

[James Debo Harrison]

I got. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'M gonna give him a shot. But that's what I'm saying. Like, why haven't they even did that? Like, why haven't you?

[Joe Hayden]

Comfortable. Comfortable.

[James Debo Harrison]

Comfortable.

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[Joe Hayden]

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[James Debo Harrison]

You think you funny. You think you funny, bruh?

[Joe Hayden]

Oh, yes, sir. Cause I know. Cause I know exactly this. Speaking of coaching staffs, you think you funny. I think I put this one in here because I found. I found. Cause first of all, you know, likeness. People like people that look like them. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes it's just familiar familiarities that. Familiarities is what they like to call it. So I know the perfect staff for you. Not the Steelers, not the Browns, the bald head staff. Team Chrome Dome, the Tennessee Titans. Just take your hat off, Deebo, and put your. And then put his head right next to coach. Right there. My good brother in the middle. And that's Deebo, inside linebackers coach for the Tennessee Tigers team Chrome Dome team. Ball head.

[James Debo Harrison]

Bro, this is crazy, bro. This is crazy, right? Yeah.

[Joe Hayden]

Thank you, team. We threw this one in here, you ain't even see it.

[James Debo Harrison]

Yeah, that's crazy, bro.

[Joe Hayden]

That man got a ball head. But guess what, man. No. No disrespect to the ball heads, everybody. You know what I'm saying? I'm eventually going. I'm eventually going to go. I'm eventually going to go. I'm holding on. I'm holding on strong. I just got the little fade today, but I still got hair and you don't. And neither do the coaches for the Titans. And you are going to fit perfectly as their linebackers coach. Deebo.

[James Debo Harrison]

Robert. Sup? Hey, give your boy a call. Y' all need a strength and conditioning coach, baby. Bald head, bald head.

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[James Debo Harrison]

Strength and conditioning coach.

[Joe Hayden]

That's actually crazy. So many bald heads. They changed the logo to a bald head. They took the flame off the logo and.

[James Debo Harrison]

Debo, bro. Yeah, Stop.

[Joe Hayden]

Yeah, I'mma tell you. Yeah, you got to see. You got to see it.

[James Debo Harrison]

No.

[Joe Hayden]

Took the flame off the logo. Team.

[James Debo Harrison]

They ain't took the flame off the logo.

[Joe Hayden]

I promise you they did, right?

[James Debo Harrison]

They ain't took the flame off. No, they did.

[Joe Hayden]

Promise.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's made up.

[Joe Hayden]

That was the first.

[James Debo Harrison]

That's AI. That's AI. That's A.I. If I see that. If I see that, it's a problem. I better not see that. I better not see that. I promise you, I better not. I better not see that.

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[Joe Hayden]

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